17/03/2014 Daily Politics


17/03/2014

Jo Coburn with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 17/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:00.:00:42.

The new boss of High Speed two says he wants a more ambitious scheme,

:00:43.:00:45.

with work on the project accelerated, so the north of England

:00:46.:00:48.

can feel the economic benefits sooner.

:00:49.:00:51.

Labour look as if they're backing the project, but are calling for

:00:52.:00:55.

more savings to be made to the ?50 billion scheme.

:00:56.:00:58.

I've taken over Jo Coburg's big board today. I'm not trying to take

:00:59.:01:03.

her job. Just explaining how the government's creating lots of them.

:01:04.:01:06.

European Union foreign ministers are meeting today, to decide what kinds

:01:07.:01:09.

of sanctions to impose on Russia, in the way of Crimea's overwhelming

:01:10.:01:15.

decision to break away from Ukraine. And, is this man worth ?300,000 a

:01:16.:01:20.

week? Ed Balls thinks so. But, do you?

:01:21.:01:27.

All that in the next hour. And, with us for the first half of the

:01:28.:01:35.

programme today is the Mayor of Liverpool, Joe Anderson. Welcome.

:01:36.:01:38.

Now, first today, let's talk about Liverpool because, when Joe was last

:01:39.:01:42.

on the programme in November, he was telling us how he was trying to

:01:43.:01:46.

engage the public in how to cut the council's budget. Joe has to make

:01:47.:01:51.

?156 million worth of savings, over three years. Joe launched an APP,

:01:52.:01:55.

asking Liverpudlians where they would like the cuts made. -- an app.

:01:56.:02:02.

So, how did it go? Yes, we have had a lot of people

:02:03.:02:06.

interested, probably about 8000 people participating, a good return.

:02:07.:02:14.

Only about 80 people completed it, some give up half way. It was a

:02:15.:02:21.

useful means. When you say useful, how is it proving to be useful? 80

:02:22.:02:27.

people completed the task. How many came up with the requisite amount of

:02:28.:02:30.

cuts? More important was getting people

:02:31.:02:34.

used to the fact we have to make these cuts. We did get some useful

:02:35.:02:40.

comments about how to do things differently. But, really emotional,

:02:41.:02:49.

not anywhere where we need. But it was useful to engage people. To get

:02:50.:02:55.

their ideas. But as important, to let them know the challenges. They

:02:56.:03:00.

know how hard it is to make those sorts of cuts. But does it have any

:03:01.:03:04.

impact on your decision making, if the idea was to make those sorts of

:03:05.:03:07.

cuts. But does it have any impact on your decision-making, if the idea

:03:08.:03:09.

was abused to ask them for solutions? In fairness, most were

:03:10.:03:21.

emotional, they didn't make any revealing changes. We got a lot of

:03:22.:03:26.

credit for doing it. A lot of plaudits for making that information

:03:27.:03:34.

available. Prioritising children's spending, but your budget is cutting

:03:35.:03:46.

61% of its budget, so this was a central issue. People participating

:03:47.:03:52.

took a large chunk out of adult's care. They did actually take large

:03:53.:04:00.

chunks out of them. You didn't agree with that? We did to an extent, we

:04:01.:04:06.

have had to take 25% out of those services, our mandatory services.

:04:07.:04:13.

Which you have to provide. We have taken 50% out of our discretionary

:04:14.:04:20.

services, libraries... In fairness, the vast majority of people who

:04:21.:04:24.

participated didn't want any cuts at all. Do you think the findings say

:04:25.:04:29.

more about perceptions as to how and where counsel spends money, and what

:04:30.:04:34.

they want is it not spent on your wages and staff, or corporate

:04:35.:04:43.

services? We put -- we do people a disservice, people do understand the

:04:44.:04:48.

challenges we face. We have also explained only ?180 million out of

:04:49.:04:57.

the ?1.2 billion we spend comes from council tax. People understand 76%

:04:58.:05:02.

of the money we spend comes from central government grants. If they

:05:03.:05:07.

take 51% of that away, they know our challenge is how to manage that

:05:08.:05:13.

budget. They are not stupid. People are quite wise and understanding, if

:05:14.:05:19.

you provide that information. Have you cut as much as you can from

:05:20.:05:24.

staff cuts Gracnar costs, so you could use those wages to put into

:05:25.:05:32.

other things? Last year, we took 176, ?176 million. The next three

:05:33.:05:41.

years, it will be ?153 million. A 58% cut. We have lost 1600 jobs. We

:05:42.:05:47.

will be reducing libraries are 50%. Leisure centres closing. Reducing

:05:48.:05:54.

children's centres, youth services, voluntary sector services cuts,

:05:55.:06:03.

violence, teenage pregnancy. This is a result of the government reduction

:06:04.:06:09.

in grant given to us. What about you generating more income? We are doing

:06:10.:06:14.

that, investing in working with the private sector. We have spent ?60

:06:15.:06:23.

million, borrowing money, to invest, because we get cheaper rates, to

:06:24.:06:26.

build a new convention centre, to support our exhibition Centre and

:06:27.:06:33.

our arena. 300 jobs are being created. We are using investment to

:06:34.:06:47.

help sustain the city. Would you do the simulator again? We would, it is

:06:48.:06:51.

important to keep that contact with the public.

:06:52.:06:54.

Now it's time for our daily quiz. As Joe well knows, Liverpool was the

:06:55.:07:00.

European City of Culture in 2008, and holds the Guinness Book of

:07:01.:07:03.

Records title for being the Capital of Pop Music. But which of these

:07:04.:07:07.

musical acts is not from Liverpool? Atomic Kitten.

:07:08.:07:08.

Elbow. Cast.

:07:09.:07:12.

Gerry and the Pacemakers? A little later, Joe will hopefully

:07:13.:07:19.

give us the correct answer! Now to the second of our Celebrity

:07:20.:07:23.

Big Boards. I use that term loosely. Last week, Liberal Democrat MP Tim

:07:24.:07:26.

Farron told us about his party's plans to raise the personal tax

:07:27.:07:32.

allowance. Well, today it's the turn of Conservative Party chairman Grant

:07:33.:07:35.

Shapps, who has this message on jobs.

:07:36.:07:40.

Ed Miliband and the Labour Party have tried to attack the long-term

:07:41.:07:45.

economic plan by claiming it would lead to the disappearance of a

:07:46.:07:52.

million jobs. But it is wrong. By backing small business and reducing

:07:53.:07:57.

taxes, this government has helped our economy to create more jobs than

:07:58.:08:03.

before. There are now a record-breaking 30 million people

:08:04.:08:07.

working in Britain. More women than ever in work. Recovery is helping

:08:08.:08:12.

more regions in the UK with new jobs bringing up. The majority of these

:08:13.:08:18.

jobs are full-time. In the last year, nine out of ten have gone to

:08:19.:08:24.

British citizens. This is what the budget on Wednesday will be all

:08:25.:08:28.

about, cementing in the recovery. Sticking with the long-term economic

:08:29.:08:33.

plan, and making sure the whole country feels the benefit. 25

:08:34.:08:37.

million hardworking people will get a tax cut next month, and the

:08:38.:08:41.

minimum wage will rise to ?6.50 later this year.

:08:42.:08:47.

How did I do? Brilliant performance, Grant. Come and sit down.

:08:48.:08:56.

You say that it million people are working in Britain. How many of the

:08:57.:09:01.

jobs being created under your time... Well done! How many of those

:09:02.:09:10.

jobs are part-time? Can we still not hear you, back with you in a moment.

:09:11.:09:16.

The government says it is creating jobs for the whole country, is that

:09:17.:09:21.

true in Liverpool? That is not true, 8% of the jobs are being created in

:09:22.:09:30.

the south. I do not buy into that. -- 80%. We have lost 1600 jobs in

:09:31.:09:35.

the public sector. But we are creating jobs. 1200 jobs recently

:09:36.:09:42.

announced. A lot of that is round things we are doing. The government

:09:43.:09:54.

has negotiated with us. We wish we had more opportunity. It is not as

:09:55.:09:58.

simple, that government is creating these jobs. There are things that

:09:59.:10:02.

are good which the government is doing but we need more. Governments

:10:03.:10:10.

do not create jobs. You may argue those jobs have been created because

:10:11.:10:15.

of government policy. Specifically at the jobs which have been

:10:16.:10:20.

created, 1600 jobs lost in the public sector. We hear from you how

:10:21.:10:24.

that has been made up in the private sector, but not in the North West.

:10:25.:10:29.

You asked and the jobs are full-time? The answer is three

:10:30.:10:37.

quarters since 2010. Nine out of ten have gone to British people. It is

:10:38.:10:42.

the case that fresh implement has been created everywhere. It is a

:10:43.:10:47.

contrast from what was predicted. We have worked together on all sorts of

:10:48.:10:54.

things. It is the case that Liverpool has got the city deal

:10:55.:11:00.

undergoing a big regeneration. The fact people are in jobs means that

:11:01.:11:06.

is security for people and their families. The opposite to what was

:11:07.:11:14.

predicted by the Labour Party. For every public sector job loss, three

:11:15.:11:19.

times as many private ones have been created. But is it even? In the

:11:20.:11:29.

North West, and in London, there is a two tiered jobs scene. In the

:11:30.:11:38.

North West, up by 20 4000, 200 and 3000 in the East. Nothing is

:11:39.:11:56.

happening in the same way. Price Waterhouse says their busiest

:11:57.:12:01.

officers are in the Midlands and the North where there is more activity.

:12:02.:12:12.

There is a lot of activity up there, and you are seeing more people, a

:12:13.:12:19.

net increase. The fact there are more people in work means your city

:12:20.:12:24.

has the chance to regenerate. And a government prepared to work on

:12:25.:12:28.

things like the city deal giving proper choice over how money is

:12:29.:12:31.

spent locally. That helps people locally. Is that your experience?

:12:32.:12:41.

Have you got the power? You say you don't have as much power as you

:12:42.:12:47.

would like to spend the money? City deal was a Labour concept, by the

:12:48.:12:53.

way. But, I am glad, the reality is I am glad the Conservative Party is

:12:54.:13:00.

working with cities like Liverpool. In reality, it is a small fraction

:13:01.:13:08.

of what is needed. 95 -- 95% of tax, car tax, VAT, and so on, what

:13:09.:13:20.

we argued for is more than that. If you look at European cities, that is

:13:21.:13:27.

the case. We could do so much more if we were given the opportunities

:13:28.:13:35.

to do it. Why did you let people in Liverpool... You are all about

:13:36.:13:39.

decentralising, supposedly, but you were let somebody who knows best how

:13:40.:13:44.

to run his city, he would argue, let him do it? We have the city deal.

:13:45.:13:54.

You have said that. With business rate attention, half of business

:13:55.:13:59.

rates stay locally. We have a lot more apprenticeships, doubled the

:14:00.:14:06.

numbers. More people in work. Of course not everything is perfect. We

:14:07.:14:11.

are working in the right direction. The long-term economic plan is

:14:12.:14:14.

working to give families security that they never would have had. What

:14:15.:14:23.

about part-time workers? Lots of polls show that people want to work

:14:24.:14:29.

more hours. It is very insecure, in fact. Again, we want to work with

:14:30.:14:36.

the government to reduce a welfare to work programme. Discussing with

:14:37.:14:45.

Whitehall how to do that. Zero hours contracts and part-time work is not

:14:46.:14:46.

secure. The Prime Minister said a question

:14:47.:14:58.

Time last week, he compared with the inn is own constituency, compared to

:14:59.:15:07.

Liverpool. Liverpool has council tax income that equates to ?180 million

:15:08.:15:13.

a year. West Oxfordshire Council, 135 will impound more a year in

:15:14.:15:19.

council tax they get the mass. Just let me finish the point. It is

:15:20.:15:25.

ignorant of senior politicians to say Liverpool get equal the same

:15:26.:15:27.

amount as West Oxfordshire. We don't. We would have 135... Let him

:15:28.:15:38.

answer. What Liverpool does get is a lot more money per head of

:15:39.:15:43.

population given to it through central Government than an area like

:15:44.:15:48.

West Oxfordshire. There's a lot of agreement between us, you might be

:15:49.:15:53.

surprised to hear this, and with the zero hour contracts, it is

:15:54.:15:56.

unforgivable exclude people from taking on other jobs. On one hand,

:15:57.:16:00.

people are being told you must not get any work this week, but you

:16:01.:16:05.

can't work anybody else. That's completely wrong and we will do that

:16:06.:16:08.

abuse. There has not been an increase in zero our contracts from

:16:09.:16:16.

the previous administration. Let me just return, he batted out into the

:16:17.:16:23.

long grass. The ?135 million West Oxfordshire is better off than

:16:24.:16:26.

Liverpool, because they have the highest level of council tax paid to

:16:27.:16:29.

them because they have quite well off people living in higher band

:16:30.:16:34.

properties in Liverpool. 17 times more people in band F paid council

:16:35.:16:38.

tax than in Liverpool. We have 17 times more... You have made that

:16:39.:16:44.

point and then we must move on. Let's be clear. The fact of the

:16:45.:16:50.

matter is, in the areas which get the least support from Government,

:16:51.:16:54.

public areas like West Oxfordshire, they may get ?250 support a year,

:16:55.:17:01.

but areas like yours public in ?1000 per head. And going to leave that

:17:02.:17:05.

there. Very briefly, before we move on, why is productivity so low? We

:17:06.:17:10.

have seen an interesting recovery to the recession. Unemployment went as

:17:11.:17:16.

high as it went. The question is about productivity. We've ended up

:17:17.:17:21.

with more people in work. What has happened in that process, people

:17:22.:17:24.

have been prepared to accept a job, maybe over time, it had some

:17:25.:17:30.

surprising impact on productivity full for the good news is, a lot

:17:31.:17:34.

more people are in work, but you are absolutely right, we need to make

:17:35.:17:38.

sure long-term productivity is high to secure the future of the country.

:17:39.:17:43.

The economic indicators are not great. How much spare capacity is

:17:44.:17:49.

left in the economy? One thing I can say... Does it worry you you have a

:17:50.:17:56.

bigger structural deficit? There are figures coming out today in terms of

:17:57.:17:59.

the production of the economy, things like supplies indexes, more

:18:00.:18:03.

positive economic news today is I think the economy is recovering. I

:18:04.:18:08.

don't think we are there yet. That's why we want to make sure... But

:18:09.:18:12.

trade figures were terrible, weren't they? We have cut the deficit,

:18:13.:18:17.

created jobs, let's give the keys back to the people who crashed the

:18:18.:18:21.

car in the first place. But that doesn't say what you're going to do.

:18:22.:18:26.

You are here a lot more this week. I understand that. We will hear more

:18:27.:18:29.

about it on Wednesday. Now, High Speed Two has a new boss. He's

:18:30.:18:33.

called Sir David Higgins and he's been doing a round of media

:18:34.:18:36.

interviews this morning. Sir David, who previously ran the Olympic

:18:37.:18:39.

Delivery Authority, wants HS2 to go further in its first phase and he

:18:40.:18:43.

wants the job done more quickly so that the economic benefits are felt

:18:44.:18:46.

sooner in the North of England. Here's what he had to say a little

:18:47.:18:50.

earlier on BBC Breakfast. The most important thing I've done is look at

:18:51.:18:54.

the first phase, that's London to Birmingham, and extensively review

:18:55.:18:58.

that cost and then look at scope. Really important to get scope right.

:18:59.:19:03.

All my experience on major projects, if you do that properly, so the

:19:04.:19:07.

decision on the High Speed One link, on Euston, doing it properly, and

:19:08.:19:09.

then potentially getting that kick-start of going to Crewe six

:19:10.:19:13.

years earlier, that's all a case of saving money by getting scope right

:19:14.:19:16.

at the start. How much will be saved? Well, the contingency is ?7.4

:19:17.:19:20.

billion in Phase one which is a lot of money. It might sound a lot of

:19:21.:19:25.

money but you can spend that if you waste it, so time is money. We could

:19:26.:19:28.

lose time in the legislative programme. We don't know the full

:19:29.:19:32.

extent of when that will be finished but that could also cost money. And

:19:33.:19:36.

with us now is the Conservative MP and former Cabinet Minister, Cheryl

:19:37.:19:41.

Gillan. She is opposed to HS2. We're also joined by Labour's Shadow

:19:42.:19:44.

Transport Secretary Mary Creagh. And Grant Shapps is still here. Let's

:19:45.:19:52.

come back to you, he wants to speed up the HS2 product so the benefits

:19:53.:19:58.

will be felt in the North of England more quickly. Is he right? I think

:19:59.:20:08.

so. People like, who was fought vigorously and got a good deal for

:20:09.:20:13.

her constituencies, like Cheryl Cole we need to decide is the future

:20:14.:20:18.

bright and head of us and we don't allow our children to benefit from

:20:19.:20:22.

it? We haven't built the railway line since the Victorian era. I

:20:23.:20:25.

think doing it faster is a good idea. You have lost this battle,

:20:26.:20:30.

because now we have labour sounding more positive about it than they

:20:31.:20:35.

were. The Government is pushing this for the you're not going to get your

:20:36.:20:39.

way. No, I think if we had a budget stimulator as they have in

:20:40.:20:43.

Liverpool, I think people would vote against HS2. I don't think there is

:20:44.:20:47.

universal support for this project at all. What is interesting today,

:20:48.:20:53.

after four years, two governments and four transport secretaries, we

:20:54.:20:56.

still haven't got the answer. David Higgins is just come in with eight

:20:57.:21:00.

weeks of studying this project and decided that he has got the golden

:21:01.:21:05.

answers. I think this project has been doomed from the start. I think

:21:06.:21:09.

it has been run badly, and I think now we are touching -- clutching at

:21:10.:21:14.

straws. The price will go up and up. We don't know that. That is your

:21:15.:21:19.

prediction. You could start to the West Coast and east coast when they

:21:20.:21:24.

were built. Is that Labour's fault? Ed Balls, when he said we're not

:21:25.:21:27.

going to hand over a blank cheque, he seemed to beat rowing back from

:21:28.:21:31.

Labour's can image to the project which led to the uncertainty which

:21:32.:21:34.

David Higgins said will ultimately lead to higher costs. I think the

:21:35.:21:39.

delay has been caused by this Parliament. Channel messed -- Cheryl

:21:40.:21:45.

mentioned the four transport secretaries. They published some of

:21:46.:21:51.

the assessment strongly, which led to a delay. What we have seen today,

:21:52.:21:56.

it's a very positive report, a thorough report, and Sir David talks

:21:57.:22:02.

about the environmental and emotional and financial impacts of

:22:03.:22:05.

HS2 and it's important we remember that, but it's also important, we

:22:06.:22:09.

have built Crossrail, a Labour Government. That took forever. East

:22:10.:22:15.

West London, North London, a ?6 billion upgrade. ?6 million spent a

:22:16.:22:21.

dreading. We've not had anything north of Watford. OK for them is

:22:22.:22:28.

Labour behind it fully? No more criticising? You ask really behind

:22:29.:22:32.

this deal? We will vote in favour of this. We will keep an eye on it to

:22:33.:22:38.

make sure the costs are kept low, and we link it with a connectivity

:22:39.:22:45.

in the North, looking at Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Hull. And looking

:22:46.:22:52.

at how to maximise the benefits of that phase two links. How fed up

:22:53.:22:56.

where Labour leaders in the North when they heard Ed Balls saying,

:22:57.:22:59.

actually we have got doubts about this? I think he was right to say

:23:00.:23:06.

there is no blank cheque. But, for me, there has to be a genuine

:23:07.:23:13.

enthusiasm for this. Politicians of both sides, progressive politicians,

:23:14.:23:16.

who talk about the need to rebalance the economy, let's remember that

:23:17.:23:21.

phrase, it's not just rhetoric full we have to do something about it for

:23:22.:23:24.

the one way to do that is by making sure cities in the north are

:23:25.:23:28.

connected to each other and to the south. In Liverpool, we are

:23:29.:23:33.

investing ?150 million in a super port, where we will bring in lots of

:23:34.:23:37.

freight from the Middle East, and we need to get it out, so it's

:23:38.:23:40.

important to connect Liverpool the east coast of the country. I agree

:23:41.:23:47.

with that. We do that. I agree with that entirely. He came to see me a

:23:48.:23:51.

few weeks ago, David Higgins, and said, why don't you start this in

:23:52.:23:57.

the North? If you're going to rebalance the economy north-south,

:23:58.:24:01.

and I'm sure Mary and Grant Wood group this if you would listen, you

:24:02.:24:07.

should start this in the North and get connectivity across the

:24:08.:24:11.

Pennines. You would reduce the likelihood that the economy being

:24:12.:24:16.

sucked down into London, by this Birmingham London face. You would

:24:17.:24:19.

wait for the Howard Davies review to see with the airport capacity is

:24:20.:24:23.

going to be in the south, and get that connectivity that Sir David is

:24:24.:24:27.

waiting for. Why can't you build north to south and son of South to

:24:28.:24:34.

North? He said the city of crew should be built first and I think

:24:35.:24:38.

that's a good idea. I do just want to say, I'm very grateful because

:24:39.:24:43.

there was a time at the conference, Mary was a difficult position when

:24:44.:24:48.

Ed Balls turning against it, and Joe and his Labour colleagues came down

:24:49.:24:51.

from many different cities and made it clear this is not acceptable.

:24:52.:24:57.

High-speed rail is required and can only be done with cross-party

:24:58.:24:59.

agreement and I think the cross-party spirit that council

:25:00.:25:04.

leaders showed is very important. You have got the agreement but is it

:25:05.:25:08.

going to be passed before the next election? I think the bill continues

:25:09.:25:15.

through. So there is delay, isn't there? We are practically in the

:25:16.:25:19.

fifth year of this Government and that still waiting for the bill, a

:25:20.:25:23.

proper process. Just to be clear, it would be easier... They can petition

:25:24.:25:28.

Parliament and have their say for the committee of MPs can look at

:25:29.:25:31.

those petitions and I think that's right that due process is followed

:25:32.:25:36.

but I want to correct something. The Government statement has just come

:25:37.:25:39.

out and they have just said any extension or fast building to Crewe

:25:40.:25:52.

would be phased two. This is a risk you introduced by dropping it in

:25:53.:25:55.

half. By dropping it in half. Only console taking on half the project

:25:56.:25:57.

you have built a delay into this project. Let a grant answer. Just

:25:58.:26:04.

very quickly. During the parliament we have enabling legislation. The

:26:05.:26:11.

biggest thing is to be absolutely clear from the north side Labour is

:26:12.:26:18.

fully behind it. We have said that. And Ed Balls no longer going to

:26:19.:26:22.

block this project. In terms of a delay, what does that mean to you?

:26:23.:26:26.

Let me just say, the enabling legislation was a little cover a

:26:27.:26:29.

bill to make sure the Government had some coverage for the money was

:26:30.:26:33.

spending. The hybrid Bill and Parliamentary process is really

:26:34.:26:39.

important and, to get the process up to Crewe you have to have an

:26:40.:26:42.

environmental statement and if you wanted to do it in this bill, it

:26:43.:26:45.

would be wrong, so what the Government ought to do, if they're

:26:46.:26:48.

going to listen to David Higgins, they should suspend the bill, look

:26:49.:26:54.

at including Crewe or started in the north and think carefully about how

:26:55.:27:03.

it's going to connect down. Some politics is getting played here. On

:27:04.:27:06.

the finance issue, it's going to cost over 35 years, just roughly

:27:07.:27:13.

over ?1 billion a year. The UK has to invest in infrastructure in

:27:14.:27:19.

transport like other cities around the world. It's coming online in

:27:20.:27:26.

2033. My point is, what the report says today, we have got to get on

:27:27.:27:31.

with it, starting the North, that's what I'm interested in. That's what

:27:32.:27:34.

Northern leaders are interested in. And that's what we hope both parties

:27:35.:27:39.

can agree before now and the general election that they are committed to

:27:40.:27:44.

this and it will happen. Let's say ?50 billion, if it goes beyond that,

:27:45.:27:51.

what will you do? We are confident, we have delivered an Olympics, an

:27:52.:27:55.

enormous project on time, Crossrail coming through on time into budget,

:27:56.:28:00.

there's no reason, this country is very capable of delivering projects

:28:01.:28:04.

on time, to budget, and a bit ahead of budget full we have to make

:28:05.:28:09.

decisions. Do we think our brighter future is in the future or do we

:28:10.:28:12.

think it's basically all over and were no longer going to build

:28:13.:28:17.

infrastructure? In the last 15 years alone, we've had twice as many

:28:18.:28:21.

journeys going on. Let's look at that. We need to build some

:28:22.:28:26.

railways. The capacity problem will not go away and will only get worse

:28:27.:28:31.

particularly if this is not built. And particularly for voters in the

:28:32.:28:36.

south-east, he's busy concerned about, they will not understand how

:28:37.:28:42.

the transport priority is to spend ?50 billion on something which is

:28:43.:28:46.

going to ease some of the commuter congestion coming into Euston,

:28:47.:28:51.

because that is, in fact, one of the least congested lines coming into

:28:52.:28:54.

London. Commuters in the south-east, if you're going to free up the

:28:55.:28:57.

economy and put investment into infrastructure, they should look at

:28:58.:29:00.

the lines I come in from the south of the country. They are a major

:29:01.:29:07.

problem for people. And we're going to be left, the Labour Party is in

:29:08.:29:12.

pole position to play politics with this project in the run-up to the

:29:13.:29:15.

election and then they can deliver for the North and leave us dangling

:29:16.:29:21.

in the South. That may happen. It's worth remembering, although this is

:29:22.:29:24.

a big investment, three times as much will be spent on rail in the

:29:25.:29:28.

next Parliament as on High Speed two, so there's still lots of

:29:29.:29:35.

investment. OK let's leave it there. Now we're going to find out the

:29:36.:29:39.

answer to the quiz. Can you render which one is not from Liverpool?

:29:40.:29:44.

Elbow. I think they are from Manchester. They are. Thank you very

:29:45.:29:53.

much to the guests. Well done. Now, let's take a look at the coming

:29:54.:29:57.

Westminster week. We kick off the week with a reception in Number Ten.

:29:58.:30:01.

The PM is hosting one for Sports Relief Fundraisers. On Tuesday don't

:30:02.:30:05.

forget to set a reminder in your diaries. It marks six months exactly

:30:06.:30:08.

to the Scottish Referendum. Then, get ready for the fiscal event of

:30:09.:30:11.

the year. That's right, folks, it's The Budget. Will the Chancellor be

:30:12.:30:15.

pulling rabbits out of the hat? The Public Accounts Select Committee

:30:16.:30:17.

holds a session on Personal Independence Payments on Thursday

:30:18.:30:21.

And on Friday, it's day one of the Scottish Labour Party conference in

:30:22.:30:22.

Perth. Joining me now to discuss the week

:30:23.:30:37.

is Rafael Behr of the New Statesman. And Isabel Hardman of the Spectator.

:30:38.:30:51.

It is a great Westminster set piece. Ultimately, George Osborne has a

:30:52.:31:00.

dilemma, there is a much money, he needs people still do think there is

:31:01.:31:05.

more work to be done, we can't trust the Labour Party. It is a year

:31:06.:31:09.

before the election so he wouldn't mind people thinking things are

:31:10.:31:14.

going well and there may be some treats for him. He has two navigate

:31:15.:31:19.

that path. Labour, their dilemma is they don't want to look as if they

:31:20.:31:25.

wish things were worse. If they can see the economy is picking up, then

:31:26.:31:29.

why would you have a Labour government? The issue on raising the

:31:30.:31:45.

40% tax rate. There is some momentum. George Osborne has

:31:46.:31:50.

indicated it is an aspiration to be in that tax bracket. He was trying

:31:51.:31:57.

to say people are more likely to see the case for smaller government

:31:58.:32:06.

wants they understand a higher tax rate -- the case for a lower tax

:32:07.:32:18.

government. He believes the low paid Nimes -- need more help. If more

:32:19.:32:24.

people are paying in that 40p tax bracket than before? It is important

:32:25.:32:33.

for them to support their core constituency, every party has two.

:32:34.:32:37.

In of terms the way wealth and reward are distributed, the core

:32:38.:32:44.

constituency isn't big enough to deliver a Conservative majority. He

:32:45.:32:49.

has two reach out to those people whose pockets RMT. They are

:32:50.:32:52.

sensitive to the charge that the Tories look after their rich friends

:32:53.:33:06.

-- whose pockets are empty. So we have seen the campaign on the bingo

:33:07.:33:11.

tax is perfect for a good front page of the Sun newspaper.

:33:12.:33:20.

On the issue of leadership and replacing David Cameron after the

:33:21.:33:23.

election, is there a campaign to stop Boris being his successor?

:33:24.:33:34.

There is a very strange campaign. There is a leadership contest.

:33:35.:33:36.

People are working themselves up into a state. Boris was gaining more

:33:37.:33:45.

traction with Conservative MPs. George Osborne's group worked harder

:33:46.:33:55.

so Boris panicked, sending agents to arrange meetings with them. They are

:33:56.:34:00.

setting a bad example to backbenchers who are obsessed with

:34:01.:34:03.

this anyway. To see people at the top becoming delirious with the idea

:34:04.:34:10.

of a leadership contest. Some Conservative MPs without a high

:34:11.:34:12.

profile want to get on with their job, and they are astonished. When

:34:13.:34:22.

people are at the heart of it seemed to be abetting this process, they

:34:23.:34:33.

are tearing their hair out. Labour love this. It means the conserved --

:34:34.:34:44.

it means the conversation has been diverted.

:34:45.:34:47.

Let us turn to Ukraine, is there anything realistically that can be

:34:48.:34:51.

done by the EU before the Crimea is pulled back into Russia?

:34:52.:34:56.

Are the sanctions that the EU is working on, are they enough to

:34:57.:35:02.

challenge Putin, or are they a token? And are we doing it at a cost

:35:03.:35:12.

to ourselves. Many of those sanctions, these restrictions, asset

:35:13.:35:17.

freezing, one of those will have any impact? At some level, there will be

:35:18.:35:24.

some bone fide catalysts in Moscow who don't like this. Russian foreign

:35:25.:35:30.

policy has said at a strategic level, talking about annexing a

:35:31.:35:35.

territory of another country. If you go into that kind of business in

:35:36.:35:39.

foreign policy, you would sweat over Visa restrictions. You have taken a

:35:40.:35:48.

catfish Western countries are more interested in the supply of energy

:35:49.:35:57.

-- give have taken a strategy that. So far, it looks like it is coming

:35:58.:36:03.

off. You suspect he will get to keep Crimea, and redraw the boundaries.

:36:04.:36:09.

There will be hand ringing in the West but not much more than that.

:36:10.:36:15.

And we're joined now for the rest of the programme by the Conservative MP

:36:16.:36:18.

Jesse Norman. The Labour MP Catherine McKinnell. And by the

:36:19.:36:21.

Liberal Democrat MP Nick Harvey. Welcome to you all.

:36:22.:36:24.

Now, let's kick off with the Budget. But first, here's George Osborne on

:36:25.:36:28.

the Andrew Marr Show yesterday. I am in no tax Conservative, I want

:36:29.:36:33.

our working people on all of these incomes to keep more of their income

:36:34.:36:38.

tax-free. You can only begin to do something like this if you have got

:36:39.:36:42.

a grip on public finances, if your economy is growing, if you are

:36:43.:36:48.

creating jobs. This is because we have been able to do these things

:36:49.:36:53.

that we can afford this increase. Why is he doing more to help people

:36:54.:36:59.

who have either slipped into the 40% tax bracket? It is misconceived.

:37:00.:37:09.

Most people have done better in the past few years. It is right for the

:37:10.:37:15.

Chancellor to focus on the area where most attention is needed, the

:37:16.:37:20.

well-being of the least well off. Why is there a campaign from the

:37:21.:37:26.

likes of prominent peers and backbenchers? Is it they don't

:37:27.:37:30.

understand the message that people are better off? Or do they feel

:37:31.:37:37.

there is a narrative going awry for the Conservatives? What is happening

:37:38.:37:46.

is that they want future clarity to be brought to this issue as with

:37:47.:37:52.

national insurance, personal allowance. A direction of travel as

:37:53.:37:57.

regards thresholds or marginal tax rates. The key point is we are

:37:58.:38:04.

broke. It is easy to think because mortgage rates have stayed no,

:38:05.:38:10.

economic problems have been sold. We are rashly halfway through the

:38:11.:38:15.

process. The idea we can write large cheques. All raising thresholds. It

:38:16.:38:26.

looks as if the threshold will go up a little but not as much as

:38:27.:38:31.

inflation. Those people are already doing incredibly well through the

:38:32.:38:37.

personal allowance. It would be another seven years of austerity,

:38:38.:38:47.

and probably beyond. I do not think voters are ready for this. Whoever

:38:48.:38:51.

wins the election, the reality is there is an awful long way to go to

:38:52.:38:56.

get the deficit under control. Even then, there is the hangover, we will

:38:57.:39:02.

have debts to pay off from the years of deficit. Although the economy is

:39:03.:39:07.

improving, it will be quite a challenge for the next government to

:39:08.:39:11.

explain why austerity will have two continue. It was easy to explain

:39:12.:39:15.

that while the economy was on the floor. As it picks up, it will be a

:39:16.:39:21.

subtle argument as to why austerity will continue for more. Do you agree

:39:22.:39:28.

another ?12 billion of cuts to welfare will also be necessary? No,

:39:29.:39:33.

that is one where you could do it but not one I would choose. You

:39:34.:39:37.

could look at taxes across the board. And hope the economy will

:39:38.:39:46.

approve -- improve. Do you accept austerity stays, the Chancellor has

:39:47.:39:51.

followed the right path. We have had growth returning, and the

:39:52.:39:54.

indicators, some of them are pretty good? He is following the right

:39:55.:40:00.

approach. We have had three years of a flat-lining economy which has set

:40:01.:40:04.

the country back. The people paying the price that are ordinary people

:40:05.:40:09.

who are working and are still not able to make meet. The choice --

:40:10.:40:17.

childcare costs have gone up 30%. People are struggling with energy

:40:18.:40:22.

bills. It sounds complacent to talk about this being something people

:40:23.:40:26.

have to accept and live with, when this is an opportunity for George

:40:27.:40:32.

Osborne to do something about it. To help those people. What would Labour

:40:33.:40:39.

do at this point? We would introduce the 10p starting rate of tax, so

:40:40.:40:43.

when people come into the tax system, it intensifies as them to

:40:44.:40:49.

increase their income. And raising the threshold? We are not disputing

:40:50.:40:55.

that. This is an additional measure. We have said it would be

:40:56.:41:02.

funded with a tax on mansions. We wouldn't bring in this antiquated

:41:03.:41:07.

marriage tax which will benefit 84% of men and only a third of actual

:41:08.:41:17.

married couples? -- married couples. It shows the argument is not

:41:18.:41:22.

working. More is being done to people on low incomes than any

:41:23.:41:27.

government. The tax-exempt personal allowance will go up to ?10,000. 2.7

:41:28.:41:34.

million people will not pay tax at all after April, 25 million will

:41:35.:41:39.

have received a tax benefit. I can't see why that could be an

:41:40.:41:44.

objectionable policy. And the people above that? Arguably people have

:41:45.:41:49.

been helped at that level. People just above that are being hit by the

:41:50.:41:57.

cost of living issues. They say they are eating into wedges which haven't

:41:58.:42:06.

kept up. What about them? Those people are included in the 24

:42:07.:42:15.

million. The thing is, if you hadn't had the combination of policies at

:42:16.:42:20.

the moment, if taxation had gone up with inflation, those above the 40%

:42:21.:42:24.

rate would be giving -- would be receiving twice the amount. It is

:42:25.:42:33.

fairer to do it this way. If things are as bad, why is consumer spending

:42:34.:42:40.

on its way up? Responding to that, speaking of fair, this government

:42:41.:42:45.

brought down the 50p tax rate, giving a ?3 billion tax cut to the

:42:46.:42:48.

highest earning people in the country. Explain my consumer

:42:49.:42:55.

spending is up? If we have got less money and there is a cost of living

:42:56.:43:03.

crisis. The economy is starting to recover, we are seeing those signs.

:43:04.:43:08.

It doesn't mean ordinary people are feeling better off. Why are they

:43:09.:43:16.

spending more money? From a clear poll this weekend showing it doesn't

:43:17.:43:20.

matter how great times George Osmond says this, people are not better

:43:21.:43:25.

off. And in your constituency? People are beginning to get the

:43:26.:43:29.

benefit of a couple of years of wages going up slightly. Certainly

:43:30.:43:35.

that. Combine that with the income tax-free threshold which has been a

:43:36.:43:41.

tax cut for 24 million people, taking 2.7 million out of tax

:43:42.:43:50.

altogether. All of that has given people a little bit of breathing

:43:51.:43:54.

space. But everybody is still finding it difficult and will for

:43:55.:43:59.

some time. Isn't the worry that what is happening is a return to a

:44:00.:44:04.

recovery led by that consumer spending, trade figures were pretty

:44:05.:44:11.

bad. House prices are going up in central London and outer areas, not

:44:12.:44:16.

elsewhere. We are returning to the very conditions that led us into the

:44:17.:44:25.

problems we had in 2008? You want a balanced recovery across all parts.

:44:26.:44:29.

We're not getting it. Not yet because there is a lag in industrial

:44:30.:44:34.

investment and overseas sales. The difficulty is, who would not want to

:44:35.:44:41.

have some form of growth, and in the High Street it is a valuable

:44:42.:44:46.

contributor to this. The difficulty is, reports that the Financial Times

:44:47.:44:50.

think there is little spare capacity, means we could be left

:44:51.:44:57.

with a bigger structural deficit, even if growth continues, which will

:44:58.:44:58.

put plans to ruin. The truth of the matter, it's really

:44:59.:45:12.

contested of theory. It is being run in the past. I don't think there's

:45:13.:45:15.

any reason to suggest it will be wrong in the future. -- it has been

:45:16.:45:19.

wrong in the past. Where will the Lib Dem fingerprints be on this

:45:20.:45:24.

budget? We are keen to continue the flagship Lib Dem policy from 2010,

:45:25.:45:29.

pushing up the threshold. We are confident we'll get up to 10,000 we

:45:30.:45:33.

started out making our objective but by the end of Parliament, we want to

:45:34.:45:38.

get up to 10,500. Let's leave it there. Ministers from across the

:45:39.:45:41.

European Union are expected to agree further sanctions against Russia,

:45:42.:45:43.

after a referendum in Crimea backed a split from Ukraine. 97% of voters

:45:44.:45:48.

in the region where pro-Russian forces are in control are said to

:45:49.:45:53.

have supported joining Russia. But the referendum is being condemned as

:45:54.:45:56.

illegal by the Government in Kiev, as well as by the EU and the US.

:45:57.:46:00.

Here's the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, speaking a little

:46:01.:46:05.

earlier today. What to look to Russia to do is to enter into a

:46:06.:46:08.

diplomatic process and framework that brings Russians, the Russian

:46:09.:46:11.

leaders, into direct contact and negotiation with Ukrainian leaders.

:46:12.:46:16.

That is what we have been pressing for over the last two weeks. It can

:46:17.:46:21.

be provided through an international contact or co-ordination group,

:46:22.:46:25.

supported by many other countries. We are all ready to do that. And, of

:46:26.:46:37.

course, they need to take their own steps to de-escalate the situation

:46:38.:46:40.

that Russia's actions, including proceeding with the referendum

:46:41.:46:42.

yesterday, other acts of provocation, the presence on the

:46:43.:46:45.

border of large numbers of Russian troops, they haven't done anything

:46:46.:46:55.

to de-escalate so far. It looks as if Crimea will be reabsorbed into

:46:56.:46:58.

Russia before the EU has time to agree on sanctions. Yes, it probably

:46:59.:47:05.

does, and, Vladimir Putin, having gone out on a limb this far now, I

:47:06.:47:09.

don't think any sanctions taken by the EU or anybody else is going to

:47:10.:47:13.

change his mind. However, I think it's worth the EU and the Americans

:47:14.:47:17.

and the international community dressing ahead with some sanctions

:47:18.:47:23.

in order, please, to get him to stop Crimea and not encroach into

:47:24.:47:26.

mainland Ukraine. Is that your fear, it won't stop Crimea? If you look at

:47:27.:47:31.

the whole way he set it up on the pretext it's to defend Russian

:47:32.:47:37.

speakers inside Ukraine, you look at the exclusion zone, and wonder

:47:38.:47:43.

whether he will go further in? I desperately hope he won't. He

:47:44.:47:50.

certainly made a point and served himself well doing this, but there

:47:51.:47:53.

is a clear danger of going further, and therefore, it's worthwhile

:47:54.:47:58.

taking some action to prevent that. Although, it looks as if it will

:47:59.:48:01.

have little impact, these restrictions, travel bans, freezing

:48:02.:48:08.

certain people 's assets. Would Labour go for economic sanctions?

:48:09.:48:13.

Well, we have said this can't go unpunished, ignored. Everyone agrees

:48:14.:48:20.

with that. Russia are a hugely fast-growing economy, but part of an

:48:21.:48:24.

international economic community, and they sit in the G8, and Douglas

:48:25.:48:31.

Alexander says we should push them to exclude them from that group.

:48:32.:48:36.

That is unlikely to have much impact. Economic sanctions as well.

:48:37.:48:42.

What economic sanctions? To make them understand the consequences.

:48:43.:48:47.

Which ones? The Foreign Minister is today are discussing the Visa

:48:48.:48:56.

restrictions, and travel restrictions and freezing assets. I

:48:57.:48:59.

think those, in themselves, will have an impact economically on the

:49:00.:49:05.

people impacted, but ultimately, I think they are discussing it today

:49:06.:49:09.

and it's important we don't turn a blind eye. I don't think there will

:49:10.:49:13.

be a turn a blind eye situation, not the dramatically, at William Hague

:49:14.:49:19.

has said we will continue efforts to make a diplomatic breakthrough. What

:49:20.:49:22.

does that mean? We're not to reverse what happened in Crimea. They're not

:49:23.:49:26.

going to do the referendum again, are they? No, but there could

:49:27.:49:31.

potentially be a coming together and a conference which allows a better

:49:32.:49:34.

understanding of both sides and their positions, and it could lead

:49:35.:49:39.

to some benefits. Let's be clear, there's not a lot of options on the

:49:40.:49:43.

table. One option slightly underestimated, it's easy to think

:49:44.:49:49.

travel Visa restrictions are inconvenient, but that large numbers

:49:50.:49:55.

of senior Russian oligarchs who live in this country, who have assets,

:49:56.:50:01.

and asset freezes, the impact of foreign exchange markets... That

:50:02.:50:17.

would have an impact, of course. The price of the ruble dropping, but

:50:18.:50:20.

it's recovered. It wouldn't be a result of what the EU might do. What

:50:21.:50:24.

will it fundamentally change about what has happened critic Mark Crimea

:50:25.:50:29.

is common to all intents and purposes, going to be part of

:50:30.:50:37.

Russia. --? The question at this point is to arrest that situation

:50:38.:50:40.

and see if some more lawful arrangement can be brought to the

:50:41.:50:44.

situation of the Ukraine and, therefore, and they should be

:50:45.:50:54.

allowed to develop. What about Ukraine's response? I've interviewed

:50:55.:50:58.

the ambassador and a diplomat in London, and wasn't going to give

:50:59.:51:00.

away any trade secrets, but the indication is, publicly, they will

:51:01.:51:04.

never accept Crimea going back to Russia. Ukraine, building up its

:51:05.:51:10.

military in the east part of the country, they say it's up to

:51:11.:51:14.

readiness, soon, so how worried are you there may take some military

:51:15.:51:18.

action? I believe don't think they will. I have seen the interim Prime

:51:19.:51:22.

Minister speaking in the media about this. I think he realises the scale

:51:23.:51:26.

of what he is tangling with. It's highly unlikely that they will do

:51:27.:51:31.

that. I suppose you can't rule it out entirely. I don't think they

:51:32.:51:34.

will accept in principle Crimea going to Russia, but in practice,

:51:35.:51:39.

it's difficult to stop it. What the Russians care about their naval

:51:40.:51:44.

bases. This is their attitude towards Syria, the only

:51:45.:51:47.

Mediterranean base. The critical thing for them is Sevastopol, which

:51:48.:51:54.

has governed the Russian action. They're not going to take notice of

:51:55.:51:58.

sanctions we are talking about, but actually, they might do if the whole

:51:59.:52:03.

international community got together to stop them going further because I

:52:04.:52:06.

haven't fully got the same strategic interest going further that they had

:52:07.:52:12.

in securing this naval base. Do you think there should be an acceptance

:52:13.:52:16.

that Britain's role and influence in the world has changed and is

:52:17.:52:21.

diminishing in terms of what it can do to affect these things? Perhaps

:52:22.:52:26.

not helped by the vote on a motion in Syria? I think it's very

:52:27.:52:28.

important that Britain continues to play a role, as we have been doing

:52:29.:52:35.

in speaking up on behalf of the rule of law, the international dialogue.

:52:36.:52:40.

That's not the question I asked. Do you think the votes, like the one

:52:41.:52:46.

about Syria, but Labour post, do you think that diminishes people 's view

:52:47.:52:49.

of Britain as a foreign power or not? I am answering the question

:52:50.:52:53.

because we have a very important diplomatic role to play. And I think

:52:54.:52:59.

we are playing that in these circumstances, and giving an

:53:00.:53:02.

important voice to the international rule of law and the economic and

:53:03.:53:08.

political consequences that may flow from an abuse of that. I think

:53:09.:53:12.

Britain needs to stand shoulder to shoulder with our international

:53:13.:53:16.

allies in order to give a very strong unified voice that says we

:53:17.:53:26.

won't stand by and allow this to go and responded to, and allow Ukraine

:53:27.:53:33.

to be alone in this issue. And I think we play an important role

:53:34.:53:37.

within the G8, and within the UN Security Council, so I think, you

:53:38.:53:43.

know, the stereo vote was a different matter, a particular

:53:44.:53:47.

circumstance, -- Syria vote, and that was a particular conflict which

:53:48.:53:54.

was very difficult. This is a different circumstance. And again,

:53:55.:53:57.

one Britain plays an important tip article role at present in, and it

:53:58.:54:01.

will continue. OK, let's leave it you. Is anyone worth ?300,000 a

:54:02.:54:07.

week? Well, according to Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls, footballers

:54:08.:54:10.

like Wayne Rooney might be, but the same can't be said for bankers.

:54:11.:54:14.

Here's a bit of what he had to say on Pienaar's Politics yesterday. I

:54:15.:54:17.

guess there's only one Wayne Rooney and he plays for Manchester United

:54:18.:54:21.

and he could go anywhere in the world and maybe that is genuine

:54:22.:54:24.

talent getting paid. And somebody who has a great idea like Steve Jobs

:54:25.:54:28.

and invents an iPhone, and they get sold all around the world, in the

:54:29.:54:32.

end we can't say we'll cut you off at some point. On the other hand,

:54:33.:54:35.

we've got all these bankers, and here Vince is right, bankers all

:54:36.:54:39.

getting paid... The guy from the Co-op before he stood down, ?3.5

:54:40.:54:44.

million salary. When they get asked, why do you get paid millions of

:54:45.:54:48.

pounds, they say because anybody else does and therefore, we have to

:54:49.:54:51.

too. Maybe people should say let's stop this merry-go-round going round

:54:52.:54:55.

and get back to a bit of rationality. That is Ed Balls

:54:56.:55:03.

talking about a move. Is he worth ?3000 a week? I don't have a view on

:55:04.:55:08.

that. He operates in a competitive market and there are many people

:55:09.:55:10.

operating in the financial sector who don't. My only desire on this

:55:11.:55:16.

would be that the premiership, the FA and the players, did more for

:55:17.:55:22.

non-league and grassroots football because, actually, teams like

:55:23.:55:26.

Hereford United, my team, are absolutely broke, and a tiny

:55:27.:55:28.

fraction of Wayne Rooney's salary would keep them out of trouble. The

:55:29.:55:35.

same as two other clubs across the country. Ed Balls says he's worth

:55:36.:55:42.

it. Is he? I think in the context of the bankers bonuses, I think you can

:55:43.:55:45.

understand why it's pretty galling for people out there who are

:55:46.:55:49.

struggling. But why should Wayne Rooney be paid ?300,000? Bankers are

:55:50.:55:53.

still failing to land a small and create jobs. But, you know, I think

:55:54.:56:00.

you can compare him to international artists, musicians, they are unique

:56:01.:56:06.

individuals that are unique to give. And I think, the market dictates

:56:07.:56:14.

what is paid and what is worth. The market is the market and if Wayne

:56:15.:56:18.

Rooney is worth ?300,000 a week in the mind of Ed Balls, bankers should

:56:19.:56:22.

be allowed to earn as much as they like as well? Manchester United kill

:56:23.:56:26.

you think is worth that. Accommodation at what they can get

:56:27.:56:31.

in television money and six, show they want to pay him that otherwise

:56:32.:56:37.

a continental club could sign him. As far as the bankers are concerned,

:56:38.:56:41.

it's different, because it's not a competitive market. They are taking

:56:42.:56:46.

everybody is money, and we haven't really got that much control over

:56:47.:56:49.

what they're doing with it. I think footballers, by the finish, they are

:56:50.:56:55.

a free, and the bankers are not regulated as well as they should be.

:56:56.:56:59.

Vince Cable says he doesn't understand why anybody needs to earn

:57:00.:57:04.

?1 million salary. Is he right? The general rule is always the same, if

:57:05.:57:07.

someone is built something with nothing existed before in a

:57:08.:57:10.

competitive environment, then they should be entitled to take the

:57:11.:57:14.

benefits of what they have created, and if they have sat in a

:57:15.:57:21.

franchise, and they are in a big bank with little challenge in the

:57:22.:57:24.

big markets, you should ask question about that. I think, whilst Vince

:57:25.:57:30.

Cable says that, he did vote through the tax cut for the highest earners

:57:31.:57:34.

and the millionaires to boost their incomes, rather than pay more in tax

:57:35.:57:43.

to bring down the deficit. I think we've taken with a pinch of salt, as

:57:44.:57:47.

well. Our MPs are humble bunch. They don't need to blow their own

:57:48.:57:53.

trumpets, apart from Jesse, last week at the Parliamentary variety

:57:54.:57:54.

show. Maybe you should give up the day

:57:55.:58:24.

job? I wouldn't say I was so great, but thank you for that. Did you

:58:25.:58:29.

enjoy that? It's one of the most wonderful things I've ever done,

:58:30.:58:32.

pick up a trumpet at the age of 41 and start playing it. I started very

:58:33.:58:39.

late. It gives rise to all these mad jokes, but actually, it's a

:58:40.:58:43.

wonderful thing and I would encourage anybody to do it. Good for

:58:44.:58:46.

you. That's all for today. Thanks to our guests. I would back tomorrow. I

:58:47.:58:51.

buy.

:58:52.:58:53.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS