Browse content similar to 20/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
The Chancellor must have enjoyed his breakfast this morning. Most of | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
today's front pages seem to have broadly welcomed his Budget. That | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
hasn't happened before! So what have we learned? Well, we'll get a new | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
pound coin. Very nice it is, too. A bit retro. But most radically, the | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
pensions industry will undergo its biggest reform for a generation. | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
There was good news for savers and a penny off a pint. That will always | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
get a cheer. George Osborne was keen to stress that he was rebuilding | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
Britain's economy. We're growing faster than Germany, faster than | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
Japan, faster than the US, he told us. But household wealth's not | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
expected to return to pre-crisis levels for another three years. | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
Labour, though, weren't so impressed. Not surprisingly. In | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
interviews this morning, Ed Balls accused the Chancellor of gambling | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
with people's cash and doing nothing for the young, the poor or the | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
jobless. We'll have all the analysis. | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
And we'll be hearing about the rock'n'roll lifestyle of | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
Parliament's only rock band. Have you ever trashed hotel room? I | :01:39. | :01:47. | |
rearranged the towels. Can you imagine those two! | :01:48. | :02:05. | |
MPs used to trash hotel rooms, but now they just put them on expensive | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
will stop -- expenses. All that in the next hour. And with us for | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
today's programme, a panel of the very best. Economic Secretary to the | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
Treasury, Nicky Morgan. Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Chris | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
Leslie. And Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman Ian Swales. | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
Treasury related people. Welcome to you all. Now without further ado, | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
let's crack on with yesterday's Budget. George Osborne and his | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
shadow were doing the breakfast rounds this morning. Let's hear | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
first what the Chancellor had to say. | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
At the heart of the budget is a long-term economic plan to make sure | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
this country is investing in the future and creating jobs for the | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
people you are asking about. And here I am on a building site in | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
Nuneaton. Barratt homes are going to be creating 3000 jobs. There are | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
people being employed on this site who didn't have work before. There | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
are apprentices. That is what this is all about. I want to help people | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
who have saved hard, and are also want help people get into work so | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
that they can provide for their family and have economic security. | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
The good news for Britain is that things are getting better, but they | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
are warning that the job is done. He needed a big picture up behind | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
him! And now let's hear from his shadow. | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
If George Osborne was being sensible and wise and long-term, he would | :03:28. | :03:29. | |
have done something about the cost of living crisis which is hitting | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
working people, people who can't afford to save, whose wages are not | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
rising while prices go up and up. He had stunned nothing to help that or | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
youth jobs or build affordable homes. What they did do is cut tax | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
on bingo, took a penny off a pint of beer. You have to drink 100 pints of | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
beer to save the pound! And an advert says we have done things to | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
help working people with the kind of things they enjoy. It was so | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
patronising. I can't leave the Chancellor. Did he really signed | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
this advert off? What was the best bit of the budget | :04:10. | :04:19. | |
for you, Chris Leslie? Some of the U-turns were quite welcome, such as | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
the carbon floor price, which was essentially a tax the Chancellor | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
introduced, and has reined back on. But it is the missed opportunities, | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
as Ed Balls were saying, in terms of cost of living pressures. You would | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
have thought that that would feature in the budget, but in the 120 pages | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
of the document, it didn't even get mentioned once. And what we need to | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
get this recovery through is to make sure it benefits the vast majority | :04:47. | :04:48. | |
of people and not just the wealthiest few at the top, and that | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
sense that the Government and the Chancellor understands that was | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
blown out of the water when in particular Grant Shapps decided to | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
patronise people with his view about what work you people really want. We | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
will come onto that and the detail of cost of living issues. In terms | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
of first impressions, what was the most important bit for you? For me | :05:10. | :05:17. | |
and my constituents, another rise in the personal tax allowance, the | :05:18. | :05:19. | |
number one Liberal Democrat policy from the last election. We have | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
delivered on the ?10,000 threshold we promised, and we have another | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
?500 coming through this Budget. That helps 42,000 people in my | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
constituency who are basic rate taxpayers who will have more money. | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
We keep hearing from Labour talk of what is happening to wages, but of | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
course, if you take less tax off people, they have more money in | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
their hand, and the real term increases the people in minimum wage | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
through the tax cut will stop what about you, Nicky? We are proud to | :05:51. | :06:03. | |
have brought certain policies in. The pension bond, we recognise that | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
interest rates have been low which is great for people with mortgages, | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
but people living on an income for their savings have told us that has | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
been difficult. So having the bond so that people can get higher rates | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
of interest is very important. And in general, the reforms to pensions | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
that we saw, as well. It has been welcomed in many of the newspapers. | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
What you could say when you look at the Budget and the proposals and you | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
go through some of the policies that have been announced, in a way, you | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
targeted a group in society, pensioners, when that is the only | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
group in society whose wages have gone up over the last five years | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
compared to every other group. We help them more than young people? We | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
have helped young people in previous Budgets. I understand the programme | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
is looking today at yesterday's announcements. But on Tuesday we | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
talked about childcare. We also previously talked about the use | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
contract, the National employer contribution break for employing | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
people under the age of 21. So it is right that we should listen, and we | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
recognise that there are things we can do to help this group. The core | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
vote. It is not just about the core vote. We have done things in | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
previous statements. New The reform of pensions was at the | :07:26. | :07:36. | |
centrepiece of yesterday's Budget, although as the Chancellor spoke, | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
Westminster hacks and MPs alike were quickly looking up the word annuity | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
on their search engines. So what are the reforms? Well, the requirement | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
to buy an annuity has ended, removing tax restrictions on pension | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
pots. The increase in total pension savings people can take as a lump | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
sum has been upped to ?30,000. Taxable withdrawls from pension pots | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
will be charged at normal income tax rates. | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
And the Chancellor has also created a new Pensioner Bond for the | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
over-65s, which they tell us will be offering "market-leading rates". | :08:15. | :08:23. | |
Well, they will be offering 4% on a three-year bond, which is higher | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
than market rates at the moment. All of that took the City by suprise, | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
with ?5 billion wiped off the value of the five biggest annuity | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
providers. Though not many were shedding tears, I can tell you. We | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
can speak now to the Telegraph's economics commentator, Liam | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
Halligan. Does it matter that these pension | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
companies have taken a thumping? I don't think it does. They are | :08:49. | :08:57. | |
diversifying companies. They have been in the annuity market for quite | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
a few years which has been on its knees for a few years, not least to | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
quantitative easing and related low interest rates. In real terms, | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
negative real interest rates because of inflation. So we have already had | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
five or six years of pensions being forced to take annuities and being | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
locked into a lower annual income for the rest of their lives. These | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
reforms won't help them, and there are hundreds of thousands of them. | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
But as far as Aviva and LNG are concerned, it doesn't matter. You | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
don't have to take an annuity in America, and they still have these | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
companies. There will be a huge lobby to change these reforms as | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
they go through Parliament from the pension industry, but if they do go | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
through as they are, what will be the consequences for the pensions | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
business? I think you will obviously get a lot more competition in the | :10:00. | :10:10. | |
annuity market, and you will get people annuitising later. This is | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
typical of Mr Osborne, targeting the older voter, people 50 plus with | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
money locked in a pension but determined not to pay the 55p tax | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
rate. But now they can take lump sums up the basic rate of income | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
tax. It is also a concern that while the Treasury thinks it is being very | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
clever with this, and it is in some senses, if pensions are available to | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
tax now, which they will be to a degree under these measures, which | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
is why the Chancellor's pencilling in hundreds of millions of pounds | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
from these measures on the revenue envelope, that money won't of course | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
be available to tax later. But later is well beyond the Chancellor's | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
political horizon. He will be either in Number ten then or retired in | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
industry. He will be long gone from both. It is up to 2030. Are we | :11:11. | :11:20. | |
seeing you tonight on This Week? Apparently, yes. The thought police | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
have got their ducks in a row, to mix metaphors. I am gracing your | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
screen with a take on Ukraine and Russia. A double whammy! I didn't | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
know the thought police had any ducks. Anyway. Joining us now from | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
Salford is Paul Lewis from BBC Radio 4's Money Box. He is the world's | :11:39. | :11:47. | |
living expert on these things. Have we just seen in effect the death of | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
the annuity business? I don't think we have seen its death, but I think | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
it will diminish. In America, it is not compulsory, and only 10% of | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
people purchase an annuity. But I am sure that the industry will meet as | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
we speak to find other ways of taking money off people. Don't | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
forget that if you don't buy an annuity, what you do with the | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
money? You probably keep it invested and draw bits out of it as you see | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
fit. It is called drawdown, and a lot of people do that anyway if they | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
have a big pension pot. Now that will be extended to people who have | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
a smaller pension pot, and it can be quite an expensive business. Other | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
people may just take the whole lot out. The first 25% will be tax-free, | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
and after that, they have to pay income tax on the other 75%, so that | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
will be quite a drain on it, but they could go on world cruise. And | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
as the price of shares of pension companies for, probably the shares | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
of cruise liners go through the roof! Given that we have this choice | :12:56. | :13:02. | |
now, a choice that people 50 plus will be able to start thinking | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
about, and it doesn't affect pensioners because they are already | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
locked in, but why would you now take out an annuity? Because it is a | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
guarantee. It says, however long you live, we will give you this much per | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
year. It may not be very much, but it is guaranteed. If you are very | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
prudent, and you put your pension pot in an Isa investment, and you | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
think, I will live until an 85, I need this income, so I will take it | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
out each year and hope it grows, when it is all gone at 85 and you | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
carry on living, by the time you are 95 or 100, you may well find you | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
have run out of money. You have been prudent or make sensible choices, | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
but unless we all plan to live to 120, we will run out of money. Yes. | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
But we got a letter from somebody who said that they have a pension | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
pot of ?400,000, that is a lot of money, much bigger than the average | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
pension pot. And they went for an annuity. It gave them ?12,000 per | :14:05. | :14:12. | |
year. Why would you go for that? Because it is guaranteed. Peanut! | :14:13. | :14:23. | |
That sounds to be index-linked. It may seem peanuts to you, but to a | :14:24. | :14:31. | |
lot of people... That is not the issue. It seems peanuts if you have | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
saved hard all your life document out ?400,000, that is what I'm | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
saying. ?12,000 a year for many pensioners would seem a lot of | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
money, but that is not my point. The point is right, that you get a very | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
small proportion of it every year, because we are living longer, and | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
insurance companies are profitable. If you had ?40,000, it would be | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
?1200 per year, and it makes you realise what the index-linked state | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
pension of seven or ?8,000 per year is worth. If you are annuitising | :15:06. | :15:13. | |
that, it is worth ?250,000. So it is difficult to have enough, but if you | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
had that and you started taking money out of it and you did live | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
until you are 85 you took more than that ?12,000 index-linked each year. | :15:23. | :15:30. | |
Stick with us because we're going to talk to the politicians so we'll | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
need you to correct them! Did we mean to destroy the pension | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
companies? That's not what we've done. They just lost 5 billion! It | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
was a surprise and we managed to get the whole policy a surprise. People | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
hadn't expected it. I think Ed Balls has welcomed it this morning and has | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
said it was... Has he welcomed it? We want more flexible to a pension | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
fund annuities and we've got to reform these ancient instruments. We | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
would have personally like to some action on the charges, the fees and | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
charges that the companies put in place. But are you in favour of this | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
new freedom pensioners will have? In the proviso that we've got | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
protection for pensioners. Paul was talking about some of this. We have | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
actuaries, these individuals in the pension companies who make an | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
estimate about your longevity and think about your ability to get a | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
steady amount of income. Now if we're not doing that, everybody is | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
going to have to individually make an estimate about their life span. | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
We've got to make sure people get proper ad twice about this. -- | :16:45. | :16:55. | |
proper advice. People will get that. In general, are you in favour of | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
this? Are you going to vote for this? I've got to be convinced that | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
there's enough protection and advice for people making very big decisions | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
about a possible third of their life and their income. Forgive me my | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
cynicism - I know you'll be surprised that I have a slight | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
scepticism - but as the Chancellor doing this for the right reasons? He | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
happens to be getting a lot of taxes from these pensioners early on. | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
Perhaps it's because he's got a big black hole. What hole is this? You | :17:29. | :17:36. | |
left a big black hole! I'm a little bit sceptical. Have the Lib Dems | :17:37. | :17:44. | |
gone along with this? Absolutely. Professor Steve Webb is one of those | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
rare people, a minister and a Lib Dem who absolutely knows his brief. | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
He's caused a revolution in pensions. He bores for Britain on | :17:52. | :17:58. | |
pensions! He has done a terrific job on this. One of the things that has | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
not been reported well is the detail of the red book does have | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
safeguards. You will not be able to draw all your pension pots out and | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
blow it and binge it. You will need certain minimum income levels. The | :18:15. | :18:16. | |
government actuary is still going to restrict the amount you can take | :18:17. | :18:23. | |
out. Are they going to give actuarial advice? Free, impartial, | :18:24. | :18:31. | |
face-to-face advice. It has to be actuarial. You don't just want that | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
to aerial advice but pension and vice. Do you see my point about the | :18:35. | :18:44. | |
life span people will have? Last night, we had a Labour adviser | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
saying "we, as a party, don't trust people to spend their money" . Now | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
you're saying you don't trust people to know that the advice is good for | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
them. Paul Lewis made a very good point which is that annuities are | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
insurance policy. People say that if they die at 69 they will lose all | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
the money. They are not really losing it. The people who lived to | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
90 are getting that money. People will need to look more closely at | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
the issue of insurance if they keep their money in their own hands. When | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
you look at what the Tories have done by stealth, and out of the | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
blue, to take ?5 billion off the pension companies at a stroke, in | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
your wildest dreams you couldn't do that to the energy companies! Nobody | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
wants to, I think, make policy which has a volatile and disruptive effect | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
in that way. I think what you have to do is enter into these reforms | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
with your eyes open and make sure that if you are making changes, big | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
changes affecting people's income over a long period, you're doing it | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
with the right reasons - so it's not just about short-term tax grabs - | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
and with protections for the public. Those are our concerns. But here's | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
the point which I don't think has been widely grassed. If, as a result | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
of saying that annuities are no longer going to be compulsory, | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
pension companies lose a ?5 billion on their value, that can only show | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
that they were taking economic rents that they didn't deserve. I think a | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
lot of people have been ripped off. But reforming annuities is a really | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
big step. I think it's important for us as an opposition to ask these | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
questions, not just take it at face value because we know they've got | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
form. Why didn't you do it? When we were in power annuity levels were a | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
lot higher. They've changed quite a lot. The banking crisis changed | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
everything. Let's be honest about the politics of this. This is a | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
burning arrow fired from the Tories straight to the heart of UKIP. | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
That's the politics of it. I can honestly tell you that UKIP is not a | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
part of the budget making process. When I dined with a cabinet minister | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
last night, he said that was exactly what it was designed to do. Was he | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
not being honest? I don't know who you were speaking to. Of course you | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
don't and you wouldn't want me to break a confidence if I dined with | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
you. But he was quite explicit about this - that you are losing | :21:31. | :21:38. | |
50-year-old males and over to UKIP. He described them as grumpy old men | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
and this is designed to get them back. Any Chancellor looks at | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
different people and what they are asking for. On Tuesday we had | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
childcare announcements. We've had pension reform. We've previously | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
been looking at businesses. Paul, any card you'd like to mark there? | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
Correct them where they were wrong? Ian Swales wasn't correct to say you | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
won't be able to take it all out. You will from next April. From March | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
the 27th of their will be still some restrictions but far fewer than | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
now. But from next April, it will be complete open house. You can do what | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
you like. The government has said everyone will have a legal right to | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
face-to-face advice. What isn't clear is how they will get that. | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
Some of the pension schemes will have to offer it but people who look | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
after their own pension, the voluntary sector might provide it. | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
It will be a problem to get good face-to-face advice to help people | :22:36. | :22:37. | |
with those difficult decisions about how much they should take out of | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
their fund and cutting down on the charges that will be made. Sounds | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
like it will keep you in a job, Paul! Thanks for joining us and | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
keeping us straight on the matter. So, what other headlines did the | :22:54. | :22:55. | |
Chancellor make? As predicted widely, the personal allowance | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
threshold will rise to ?10,500. The threshold for the 40p income tax | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
band is to rise from ?41,450 to ?41,865 next month and by a further | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
1% to ?42,285 next year. The Chancellor took a penny off a pint | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
and he froze duty on Scotch whisky. Always popular! He's also chopped | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
the tax rate for bingo halls from 20% to just 10%. And conscientious | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
savers can now put up to ?15,000 into their individual savings | :23:26. | :23:36. | |
accounts tax free! Nicky Morgan, what did you do to tackle Labour's | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
cost of living crisis? Raising the personal allowance is the biggest | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
thing we can do to help families and people working hard to keep more of | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
their own money. We've taken action on fuel duty. It was confirmed | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
yesterday that the planned rise for September is not going to go ahead. | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
On Tuesday we had a very important childcare announcements so there are | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
lots of things that we are doing. But I'm not going to say the last | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
couple of years haven't been very tough households. We recognise they | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
have been. That was recognised yesterday in the budget. We said the | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
job isn't done yet but we can see the momentum building. The recovery | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
is there and it's important we stay on the current path to build that | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
recovery. And it's who it actually benefits. Real wages have been | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
dropping consistently since 2010, the longest period of falls since at | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
least 1964, under both your governments. Real wages started to | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
fall before that in the financial crisis. They did but they have had | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
now the longest period of falls. Real wages have fallen by 2.2% | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
annually since 2010 when you came into power. I'm not saying people | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
haven't had it very tough. As a result of the recession that was | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
left behind, the big black hole, and we've had external shocks like the | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
eurozone crisis, it has taken time to build confidence. The employment | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
figures yesterday were very good news and we're looking at how we can | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
help with the personal allowance, childcare, free school meals, | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
council tax, fuel duty. My constituent tell me these things are | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
making a difference to the money they have in their pocket. What do | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
you say to the charge that it's too little, too late? We had to get in | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
and sort out the problems we had before. We can only do these things | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
because of the long-term economic plan we have in place to build the | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
recovery. The largest fall in real wage growth amongst the G7. What are | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
you doing worse than every body else? We were in a worse financial | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
position. The last government crashed the car. The Chancellor | :25:44. | :25:45. | |
brought about not fixing the roof while the sun was shining. The bail | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
out meant that because we'd been consistently spending so many years | :25:51. | :25:52. | |
more than we bring in in taxes, there wasn't the money to develop | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
banks so it's hit everybody. Every household is ?3000 worse off as a | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
result of Labour's recession. Well, they've shot sure Fox, stolen your | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
thunder. There were measures to deal with cost of living issues and at | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
some point this year, wages will go ahead of prices and that is going to | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
completely dampen your cost of living crisis that you keep accusing | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
the government of. Let's hope that eventually earnings to surpass the | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
level of prices because we have had such an unprecedented period of the | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
pound in people's pocket, no matter what new shape it will be, | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
diminishing in value and in the amount it can purchase. The | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
criticism that we have of the budget is almost conspicuous by its | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
absence. There weren't the significant changes that we need to | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
help people with the cost of living crisis, the now well-known cost of | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
living crisis. There were the childcare policies. Which won't come | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
in until autumn 2015. We could have had help now, particularly if we'd | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
taken some of the money that should be collected from the bank levy and | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
taken it into childcare. There is a difference. They like to throw a bit | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
of dust in this very clear policy. We could take ?800 million from the | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
bank levy which should have been collected properly and hasn't been, | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
and put it into increasing childcare hours for three and four-year-olds. | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
That would help with parents getting part-time work and training and that | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
isn't happening. They've taken 15 billion from families with children. | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
We don't hear about the child benefit changes and tax credit cuts. | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
They are not going to give anything back until the next Parliament. 85% | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
of people who receive child benefit are still doing so. The issue is... | :27:41. | :27:48. | |
Actually, it's going to be raised. But the issue with the opposition's | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
childcare policy, not least about the funding, is also about the fact | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
that we want a simple, flexible scheme so that parents are able to | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
choose the right childcare. If you say you have to have a certain | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
number of hours a week, that doesn't suit everybody. Let's have a look, | :28:03. | :28:09. | |
though, at the type of recovery, as Labour always call it, and the | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
rebalancing of the economy. Ian Swales, do you think it has been | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
rebalanced enough or do you think there is still too much focus, as | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
Vince Cable often warns everybody, about consumer spending, which is | :28:22. | :28:27. | |
up? Since last year the property market is improving but is not a | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
pre-crash levels, apart from in London. Do you fit we're moving that | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
are exactly the same position as we were pre-crash? No, I don't. I think | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
the rebalancing is taking place. We can see it. There was lots of | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
rebalancing that needed doing when Labour left office, one of which was | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
between financial services and manufacturing. There were lots of | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
measures yesterday about manufacturing, around capital | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
finances and energy costs, particularly the type of area I | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
represent the north-east. These are the kind of things we need to be | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
doing. We need to rebalance from north to south and that job has in | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
no way been done yet. Do you accept there is a big divide between North | :29:13. | :29:14. | |
and South and even within that huge regional differences? You say there | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
has been a focus on manufacturing. What level is it at paired to | :29:20. | :29:26. | |
pre-crash? It's up. No, it's down from pre-crash but it's up since | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
2010. 9% down. From a low bar it is improving but is still way below | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
pre-crash levels and we are in 2014. But the trade figures were very | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
disappointing just over a week ago. Where is this rebalancing of the | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
economy? I represent a constituency in the north-east which has a net | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
positive trade balance. The north-east Chamber of Commerce | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
welcomed the budget, saying it had prospects for growth. If you look | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
around this country, for example on house prices, nobody in my | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
constituency would recognise the worries about the housing bubble. It | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
doesn't exist. Nicky Morgan, household gross debt to income at | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
its peak in 2007-8 and the prediction is that it's going to be | :30:15. | :30:20. | |
at similar levels by 2018-19. That's household gross debt to income. It's | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
going to be as high, so it's predicted, by 2018-19, and by then | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
interest rates will probably have gone up by about 3%. You need to | :30:31. | :30:37. | |
look at what the debt is. It's about building a culture of saving. We | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
need households and people to do more of that. The OBR forecast shows | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
the savings rate going from 7% to just over 3%. People are saving and | :30:47. | :30:54. | |
we'd like to see them doing more. Steve White according to OBR | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
forecast made after you'd may be changes, the savings forecast shows | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
it fallen by 15%. That's why the announcements were about helping | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
people to do more. You know how it works. The OBR makes these forecasts | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
after you've told them what you're going to do. The savings | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
announcements that we made yesterday one thing but people 's confidence | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
that they have taken action to tackle their debt. | :31:24. | :31:35. | |
Let's have a look at this poster that appeared earlier today. " to | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
help hard-working people do more of the things they enjoy. ". | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
The Budget was about a lot more than this. But would you have referred to | :31:49. | :32:01. | |
working people as "they" ? I wouldn't have put that, but it was | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
only a part of the Budget, and there were plenty more parts of the | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
Budget. She is very loyal to Grant Shapps is, but it was very | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
patronising, this notion that you patch working people on the head. | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
The government is so out of touch with the struggle that people are | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
having, the difficulties to make ends meet. We end up with an economy | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
that is Carragher fired by food banks and zero hours culture. -- | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
characterised by food banks. It is patronising. I regard myself as part | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
of the community I represent. It is not "they", we are all in it | :32:42. | :32:49. | |
together. A couple of policies were very popular yesterday. That this is | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
the one that Grant Shapps told everyone to tweet. There was a whole | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
list of things that we told everyone to tweet. It is because Tories don't | :33:01. | :33:07. | |
drink beer or play bingo, isn't it? That is not true. When we last at a | :33:08. | :33:16. | |
bingo hall? The point is, yesterday's Budget was to draw | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
attention to a couple of key policies, and that is what Labour | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
can't get past. Screwed up by your party's propaganda division. The | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
reaction from here is typical. The Budget response speech didn't | :33:34. | :33:42. | |
respond to the Budget. There was no action to deal with the pressures | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
people are facing, and the telling thing was the way in which you | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
character rise working people, because you don't understand the | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
pressures that people are facing. That's what it told, it told a story | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
about you. What else to "they" like? It is "we", and we have a lot | :33:59. | :34:12. | |
of issues that we all face together. Will you tell Grant Shapps that? He | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
doesn't understand it. I don't think they will be going for a beer. Maybe | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
a long walk off a short pier. And only one will return. Now, the | :34:24. | :34:33. | |
economy. George Osborne said yesterday that Britain was enjoying | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
the fastest economic growth in the advanced world. He could hardly take | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
the smile off his face as he said it. So let's take a quick look at | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
the figures. According to the oh BR, the economy will grow this year at | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
2.7%. It's expected to grow 2.3% in 2015. 2.6% in 2016. Steady at 2.6% | :34:48. | :35:00. | |
in 2017. And 2.5% in 2018. Forget everything I just said that, because | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
they have no idea how it is going to grow in 2018, this is just a | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
complete the series! Public borrowing stands at ?108 billion | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
this year, but it's expected to fall over the next five years to a ?5 | :35:12. | :35:20. | |
billion surplus in 2018/19. Supposed to be a surplus this year, but it is | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
now been moved to then. But Britain's debt mountain will end up | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
being smaller than previously thought, peaking at 78% of GDP in | :35:29. | :35:30. | |
2015, 7% less than forecast. Why have you presided over the worst | :35:31. | :35:43. | |
recovery of any major economy? Because we had the biggest recession | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
in 100 years where are economy shrank by over 7%. But the sub-prime | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
crisis started in America. Japan has had a huge banking crisis as well. | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
Why have we performed worse than them? Because we had a big | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
recession, the eurozone crisis, other emerging markets. So did the | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
French and the Germans. Why was hours worse? Because of all of those | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
factors and the need to get some structural things that we needed to | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
get right in our economy to build our way through, dealing with public | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
spending, dealing with things like the welfare bill that had been going | :36:22. | :36:28. | |
up and up, and also about consumer confidence and business confidence, | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
and that takes time. We can see that coming back now. But the whole | :36:34. | :36:41. | |
purpose of this coalition has been bid to reduce the deficit. The | :36:42. | :36:50. | |
deficit made by Labour, is the Tory mantra. So why are we still, two | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
years from now, having the worst fiscal deficit of any Western | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
economy? It is down by a third now and is forecast to be halved, | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
because we have had this big recession to deal with. We have not | :37:07. | :37:14. | |
had a worse recession than Ireland, we have not had a worse recession | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
than Greece, which has lost 25% of its GDP. We have not had a worse | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
recession than Portugal. We have not had a worse recession than Spain, | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
which is an even bigger property boom than we have. Yet our fiscal | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
deficit will remain bigger than all of these countries. There is also | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
the fact that other things, public spending needed to come under | :37:39. | :37:46. | |
control. Greece had massive public spending, too. They haven't got it | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
under control. But their fiscal deficit in 2050 will be smaller than | :37:52. | :37:58. | |
ours. We're bringing the spending under control. The welfare benefit | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
had got out of control as far as taxpayers were concerned, all of | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
those things have combined... And you still can't do better than the | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
Greeks? We are well on course to halve the deficit by next year, and | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
to have a small surplus by 2018. These things take time, and I think | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
people respect that. Why did Ed Miliband not mention a single | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
measure in the Budget yesterday in his response? I'm not sure that is | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
quite true. Don't all gang up on him! That's my job. I think the | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
measures that he mentioned were the effect on the public. What Budget | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
measure did he comment on in his response to the Budget? We can go | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
through his speech in great detail... Just give me one. You were | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
there. You must have listened to it. I was actually giving my own | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
reaction. Tell me one measure that he commented on four or against? I | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
think he was making a point about the lack of measures in the Budget | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
to deal with the cost of living pressures that people were facing. | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
He could've written that weeks ago. He probably did. You are reacting to | :39:13. | :39:19. | |
the Chancellor's speech. The normal convention is that a Minister makes | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
a statement. There is an hour or two of notice to the opposition | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
spokesman. Redacted in a certain way for market sensibility. But it is an | :39:30. | :39:37. | |
important thing people need to know. As a leader of the opposition or any | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
shadow Minister, you have to react to the context in which the speeches | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
are given, and I can tell you something for the Op the more that | :39:46. | :39:47. | |
we look at the Budget, the more obvious it is the measures that are | :39:48. | :39:56. | |
conspicuous by their absence. That he didn't mention either! But since | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
he didn't mention any measure, can you tell us today what was announced | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
in the Budget that you will vote against? I think there was some good | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
things in the Budget. There were a few U-turns. We haven't got the | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
finance bill yet. So you don't know yet. We are in favour of a welfare | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
cut, and we believe that your reckless spending in terms of... To | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
go back to your question about recovery. Our biggest question was | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
how unbalanced our economy was. Under the previous government, | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
manufacturing went from 22% to 11% of the economy. We're having to | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
recover from a low base. The alternative measures that have been | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
suggested have even now started complaining about tax rises, 24 tax | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
rises. I don't know which ones they particularly don't like. But they | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
are complaining about both spending cuts and tax rises. It is always two | :40:58. | :41:05. | |
government spokespeople. The personal allowance, you say we give | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
a little with one hand and take off with the other, that is far greater. | :41:09. | :41:15. | |
Council tax, fuel duty... You never mention VAT. People are ?891 worse | :41:16. | :41:24. | |
off on average. There was a total lack of detail in Ed Miliband's | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
response. But you published 24 tax rises that you claim have come... | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
And we can't undo the maul. Will you reverse any of them? In 2015, the | :41:38. | :41:47. | |
years the general election, we will look at them then. Say you cannot | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
say that you will reverse any of them? I cannot promise to reverse | :41:53. | :41:59. | |
any thing that we cannot afford. We think there are ways of funding the | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
bedroom tax and its abolition. Stamp duty reserve tax the rich investment | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
managers shouldn't be the priority that they are cutting in April. We | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
think instead it is important to help people with the bedroom tax. | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
Why did you not include the bedroom tax among the 24 tax rises? We | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
could've done. We didn't include tax credits. If you want an even greater | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
list... That is because you know it is not a tax. For a lot of people it | :42:30. | :42:37. | |
is. So why didn't you include it? This is the main thing you have been | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
campaigning for, to get rid of what you call the bedroom tax. Yet on a | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
list of 24 tax rises, you don't include the biggest one that you | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
have talked most about? Why? I am happy to call it 25 tax rises if you | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
really want. Why has it taken new 24 hours to do that? If you want a | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
compendium, it is a much bigger list. Why didn't you put the most | :43:04. | :43:15. | |
important one? There are many of them. This is the one that you say | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
you want to reverse. You have just said you can't reverse the other 24, | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
yet the one that you can reverse is the one that you didn't include. | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
Why? We needed to set out for people that there were a number of changes | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
to their taxes, and we needed to put beyond doubt the fact that this is | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
an approach that typically comes from the Chancellor. He will | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
sprinkle around a few goodies, a change in your personal allowance, | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
but the context is that people's taxes elsewhere have been going up. | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
If you want me to call it 25 tax rises, I am happy to do that, but | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
the point is it is unfair. We have run out of time. Policy has been | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
made yet again on the Daily Politics as! You heard it here first. And now | :44:02. | :44:09. | |
for something completely different. We're going to mark an anniversary | :44:10. | :44:16. | |
of true national significance. No, not Andrew's birthday, but ten years | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
since Parliament got its own rock band. They're called MP4, and they | :44:21. | :44:22. | |
regularly bring their signature brand of dad rock to events at | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
Westminster. Adam's been auditioning to be their roadie. | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
It is Budget night, and boring politicians are talking about | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
pensions stuff, but not here. This is MP4, the only parliamentary rock | :44:33. | :44:33. | |
group in the entire world. # Keep on running. They let us into | :44:34. | :44:47. | |
the sound check ahead of their gig to mark ten years on stage. On | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
guitar, Labour's Kevin Brennan. On drums, the Conservative Greg Knight | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
and on keyboards, Pete Wishart of the SNP, who has been on an actual | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
band that played in stadiums and everything! But just how rock 'n' | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
roll are these guys? I want to ask about rock cliches. Do you have | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
groupies? Yes, but we don't tell the media about them. Have you ever | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
trashed a hotel room? I rearranged the towels are slightly. There are | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
violent rows between two members of the group, usually the two Labour | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
members! Kevin was in favour of Gordon Brown and I was in favour of | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
Tony Blair! MP4 I'll regulars on the Westminster social scene. This cake | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
was last week at the Parliamentary variety show. -- are regulars. The | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
band have raised ?1 million for good causes over the last decade, they | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
reckon. And yes, there is an album - probably not available in a record | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
shop near you. Pete Wishart has come from a | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
recording studio and he joins us now. How did you all get together? | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
It's ten years and I think Andrew was at our first gig. I was from the | :46:10. | :46:19. | |
music industry and there was an all-party music group put together | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
and I wanted to get debate going. I met Ian and we started about the | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
prospect of putting together a parliamentary rock band. We said we | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
would never find a drummer to only find Greg Knight eavesdropping on | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
our conversation and he asked if we were talking about a drummer and | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
offered his services. We were quite happy being MP3 at that point and | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
then Kevin Brennan decided to gate-crash the party with his guitar | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
and from Bennet been MP4 so we've risen to the steady heights of | :46:48. | :46:53. | |
competence! -- from then it's been. You didn't have to audition, then? I | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
don't think there was a great talent -based audition from! Any hidden | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
talents here? No, but I think Ed Balls is trying his best to get in! | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
MP4 performed one New Year on the terrace and they had a guest, David | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
Morris the MP4 Morecambe. He's a genuine session guitarist so there | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
is a reserve in place! Maybe your fame could spread further than the | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
Westminster terraces. You could be in Pienaar spaceman grow 650. -- you | :47:28. | :47:38. | |
could be MP650. We've raised quite a lot of money for Macmillan Cancer | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
Support. We've made a lot of great friends in the ten years. | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
Camaraderie urges in bands and developed and we are very | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
supportive. Not like the Rolling Stones, then! | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
You haven't split up and come back together? No, I think this will be | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
the line-up until our last days. When is your next gig? Believe it or | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
not, the Speaker has kindly agreed to allow us to do a show in | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
Speaker's House to celebrate ten years. We also have a gig where we | :48:14. | :48:20. | |
sail up and down the Thames. Do you think John Bercow would allow you to | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
play a gig in the chamber? I think that would be ruled out. How many | :48:25. | :48:36. | |
copies has your album sold? Three. Still available on all good download | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
sites! Have you noticed something about the band? In what way? It's | :48:41. | :48:48. | |
cross-party but there are no Lib Dems. I'm not sure we have any Lib | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
Dem musicians. You have a few fiddlers! Very good! He did turn up | :48:55. | :49:02. | |
with his mouth organ once but we had to let him down gently! But it isn't | :49:03. | :49:09. | |
a policy that they're barred? Is a Liberal Democrat came forward with | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
is a pre-musical talent he would be admit it at media early! Have you | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
heard them play? I haven't but I hope they manage to stay together. | :49:21. | :49:29. | |
Maybe if you win at the Brits! We are waiting for the best | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
parliamentary rock group category to emerge! Would have been nice to have | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
you play them all out because we now say goodbye to the three of you | :49:38. | :49:45. | |
guests. Enjoy. Back to the budget, a day of high | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
drama in the Westminster village calendar. Apart from the general | :49:50. | :49:51. | |
election, it's probably as good as it gets. Let's take a look back. | :49:52. | :49:59. | |
If you are a maker, a doer or a saver, this budget is for you. | :50:00. | :50:21. | |
CHEERING If you like the Budget, we need to | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
put the question. All the prime minister needs to do is nod his head | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
if he's going to rule out cutting the 45p tax. There was almost no | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
mention of young people in the statement at all. A very, very | :50:35. | :50:42. | |
sensible Budget. I'm joined now by one man who things budgets are a | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
waste of time, trying to do us out of a job! He's Danny Finklestein. | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
He's a Tory peer and terribly grand. And one man who thinks they're not, | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
Steve Richards. He's not a peer - yet - but is quite grand. I think we | :50:58. | :51:07. | |
have now got four fiscal events in a two-year period and I'd like one. | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
The best type of Chancellor creates a framework for the economy, a | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
framework for taxation, has a sense of direction and doesn't want to | :51:18. | :51:20. | |
keep on moving taxes up and down to manage the news media. But the way | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
the fiscal calendar is organised, it encourages people to do something | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
that means that television programmes have got something | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
exciting to say about them. And what's wrong with that? I can | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
understand why the media, including myself and the Chancellor, will have | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
a vested interest in having all these events but I don't think it | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
makes for good policy because the better policy is long-term strategic | :51:46. | :51:52. | |
policy. I accept that you get silly policies and I think it's worth the | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
silly policies because in my view, politics is now an art form and one | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
might as well and break the artistry. In other words, we need | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
these events, partly to hold people to account, partly to explore what | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
they're up to, partly to explore what they are. And without these | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
events, we wouldn't get that, so it's a wholly artificial device, the | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
Budget, the party conference speech, all the annual rituals we have, the | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
Autumn Statement which is, in effect, a second Budget. We get the | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
silly policies but it's worth it because it gives us an excuse to | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
explore what they're about. And take stock. And take stock. And without | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
them, we wouldn't have these pauses in the general frenzy of political | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
life. I think and argue that have to start with silly policies being | :52:41. | :52:43. | |
worth the price is arguing against itself. What makes you think you | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
wouldn't still get silly policies? I think the few occasions you have | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
where politicians are expected, as a matter of ritual, to turn up with | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
something exciting to say, the better policy would be... Let's take | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
a beer policy. It sensible to create a long-term framework for the | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
taxation of alcohol. It isn't sensible to have a framework in | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
which people are courage to move the attacks up and down to create | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
newspaper headlines. But if you don't do that, you don't get any | :53:13. | :53:25. | |
headlines. -- to move here tax. You end up with posters like the one Mr | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
Schatz has released. It tells us about what the person who came up | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
with it thinks. -- that Grant Shapps has released. It's taken the lid off | :53:36. | :53:44. | |
something? It tells us about a thought process. I feel like the | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
Leader of the Opposition. I've got nothing interesting to say about it. | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
I can't understand what everyone has got so excited about. In a way, it | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
makes my case, which is that it's a silly political row about the words | :54:00. | :54:15. | |
people use. All the letter set. It's digitally made now! In terms of | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
policy, you get the silly things about beer but in terms of the | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
pensions announcement, I saw some people say they think it will | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
implode but I think probably, after the so called on the shambles | :54:31. | :54:44. | |
Budget, this, I assume will be rock solid. -- omnishambles Budget. We've | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
had the Mayor of London, it on the poster. Let's have a look. Who are | :54:51. | :55:01. | |
"vague"? I haven't seen it. -- who are "they" ? It seems to be | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
celebrating the fact that we are cutting the tax on bingo and beer | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
and that is the right thing to do. Are they via Tony and is? -- the | :55:14. | :55:21. | |
people who went to Eton? I think it is the right thing to do. I didn't | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
write the blooming thing. It's trying to get across the message | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
that it is the Budget for everybody. What's he supposed to say? May be | :55:34. | :55:41. | |
what he thinks! Well, it's a little bit of paper with a few words on | :55:42. | :55:51. | |
it. Naturally, this kind of conversation in which the consensus | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
is that it was silly is an opportunity for somebody who isn't a | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
Conservative to say it is a silly poster. Maybe for other people, and | :55:59. | :56:05. | |
just not for me - it didn't strike me as that interesting. You don't | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
think it tells us something? I do. And so does the Budget speech. On | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
the whole, it would be a very tedious exercise but if you look | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
back at Budget speeches, much more than Queens speeches, it tells us a | :56:21. | :56:28. | |
lot about the economic policy, of a future intent, context. I do think | :56:29. | :56:35. | |
they force people - in this case chancellors - to think about who | :56:36. | :56:38. | |
they are and what they are about and they tell us things. It's the same | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
with the leaders' conference speeches. I spoke to one of the | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
leaders before there's last September and October and I asked if | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
they were fed up about the amount of time they spend on it and they said | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
it made them focus and concentrate the mind. Let's forget the poster | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
and come onto the substance or, more particularly, both of you give me | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
your view about where this leaves our politics up to the election, | :57:05. | :57:11. | |
after this budget? I don't think the Budget will have altered this but we | :57:12. | :57:14. | |
are in for a period where we have this debate between the living | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
standards rising versus whether growth is rising. People will know | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
the country is doing well and then wonder whether they themselves are | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
doing well. If they feel they are not they may well say that the Tory | :57:27. | :57:29. | |
brand values are that they don't help people like them and that's why | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
they are not being held. There is a great boon - we got things right, | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
the economy is going the right direction. And the danger which is | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
the party being seen not to help people. Where it is clever is that | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
there will now be a new focus on savers which hasn't really been | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
around in our daily reflections on politics and economics throughout | :57:52. | :57:53. | |
this whole period. That will change I think and that is quite a big | :57:54. | :58:01. | |
twist. Other than that, I think it will have little impact on the wider | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
political mood in the short-term. I'll be surprised if polls show a | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
sudden huge Tory lead. And in the build-up, there were clearly a | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
series of traps for Labour and the one they haven't yet resolved is | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
whether they support his tax and spend plans or his spending targets | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
for the next parliament and that will be a big call on their part. | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
Unlike the welfare cap, my guess is that they won't stop That's a debate | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
to come. That will shape the politics of the election. That's it | :58:32. | :58:44. | |
for today. The News At One is starting over on BBC One now. I'll | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
be on BBC One tonight with Ranulph Fiennes, Kevin Maguire, Miranda | :58:49. | :58:50. | |
Green, Diane Abbott and Michael Portillo on This Week at 11:35pm. | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
And I will be back here at noon tomorrow with all the big political | :58:55. | :58:57. | |
stories of the day. What are you doing? What am I doing here? ! | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
You're a glutton for punishment! Goodbye. | :59:01. | :59:01. |