Browse content similar to 28/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Is the spare room tax working? Ever heard of Left Unity? They want to | :01:04. | :01:11. | |
unite the left and do what UKIP has done for British politics. And these | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
days you are more likely to find journalists and politicians sipping | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
mineral water than Muscadet. We ask whatever happened to the boozy | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
Westminster lunch? All that in the next hour and with us are two of | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
Westminster's most thirsty journalists. Tom Shipman is about to | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
move to the Sunday Times. His diary will be even more chock-a-block with | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
expensive lunches. Helen Lewis has to keep coming on because the New | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
Statesman's expenses are so stingy so she comes into the BBC to heat up | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
her seat in the microwave. First, the Conservative part of the | :01:57. | :02:13. | |
Government treaty must protect the interests of non-Eurozone member | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
states. That is one of Mr Cameron's key demands as he tries to | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
renegotiate our relationship with the EU head office planned | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
referendum in 2017. In Europe Germany is the powerful friend | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
everybody wants on their side. He has got the Germans on his site a | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
little bit? It is a good point for them. It is one of the most boring | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
pieces or prose I have ever read. But it is in the Financial Times? | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
But it does not get anywhere near far enough what the Tory | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
backbenchers want. It is a nice concession, but it is nowhere near | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
to appeasing the centre ground. Wolfgang Schauble has been speaking | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
elsewhere saying that treaty change will come back onto the agenda and | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
that is a way for the Tories to get through to say, we are not on our | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
own, if there is to be treaty change, we want it to suit us. | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
Loo-mac and when Angela Merkel came over here a few weeks ago, the | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
Tories hoped she would talk about treaty change because that gives | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
David Cameron his opening. It is interesting Wolfgang Schauble has | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
gone a bit further and you have linked the need to protect | :03:38. | :03:39. | |
non-Eurozone countries with a treaty. They have now been brought | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
together. There is a huge flaw in this. | :03:46. | :03:54. | |
Francois Hollande once treaty change. He has lost badly to the | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
National Front and that the mainstream parties of the right in | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
the local elections. Second round on Sunday. Last time it split the | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
Socialist party down the middle, the election on the Lisbon Treaty. He | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
will not want treaty change. The Financial Times made it clear. It is | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
in everyone's interests to keep kicking treaty change down the road. | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
I think that is a very fair point. Otherwise, our relations with | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
Germany would not be very good. We dissed Francois Hollande pretty | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
badly when he came over here and he got a rubbish pub lunch. He has been | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
pretty rude to us. What is wrong with a pub lunch? Nothing wrong with | :04:43. | :04:51. | |
it. We are going to need the Eastern Europeans to agree to treaty change | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
as well. David Davies said earlier this week in a public meeting I was | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
chairing that he thought David Cameron would get almost nothing by | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
way of repatriation of powers. But he would still go for a referendum | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
and he would still argue to stay in and that he would lose the | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
referendum and we would come out. I think it is a possibility. A lot of | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
people did not think David Cameron would use the veto and he did. It is | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
possible to see him going and are not getting what he wants. I think | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
most people at the top of the Conservative Party do not expect | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
that to happen. It is happening too early. The back pensions will say, | :05:28. | :05:35. | |
thank you -- the back benches. Some are insatiable. 70 of the 100 who | :05:36. | :05:50. | |
signed the letter the other day, Michael Gove surprise the nation | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
earlier this week by outing himself as a rather unlikely fan of rap | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
music. Yesterday a group of schoolchildren at a BBC event | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
helpfully asked him about his favourite rapper. Who did he pick us | :06:03. | :06:12. | |
up was it LL Cool J? Biggie? Chuck D? Wham? At the end of the show, Tim | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
and Helen will give us a correct answer. Have you got any idea? Very | :06:20. | :06:27. | |
confident. Who do you trust most to run the economy. It is a crucial | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
issue at any election and probably in this one even more so when the | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
country is beginning to recover from what was a very long and very deep | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
recession. The daily politics has been working with a polling firm on | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
a new kind of survey that looks at motors in terms of their values as | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
well as things like what they earn and where they live under the usual | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
social class indicators. We will give you the results in a moment. | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
First, Adam will explain how it works. | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
The polling firm has divided the country into six types of political | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
personality. Voters in Worcester found out what category they are in | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
bike using an online quiz. There is optimistic contentment. People doing | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
OK. Then there is comfortable style Joe, those who are unhappy with | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
Britain. -- comfortable nostalgia. Another group feel less secure, hard | :07:21. | :07:29. | |
pressed anxiety. I am hard pressed. Long-term despair, those who are | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
really struggling. What about the cosmopolitan critics? Idealists. | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
Quite often working in the media. One group of voters we have not come | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
across, the people who show calm persistence, they hope things get | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
better but do not expect them to. They are coping rather than | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
comfortable. Presumably they are all out of work. How the party's | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
messages go down with these groups is really important because the | :07:58. | :07:59. | |
pollsters recognises, nations of these political tribes that decide | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
elections app the pollsters reckon it is combinations. | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
Let us look at some of the main findings of the survey. It has come | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
in hot off the press in the last hour. The respondents were asked who | :08:15. | :08:22. | |
they trust most to run the economy. 58 cents said they trusted the | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
Conservatives the most -- 58%. Next respondents were asked to pick the | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
three words or phrases that best describe each party leader. David | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
Cameron, out of touch, arrogant and does not listen. Labour leader Ed | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
Miliband, the top picks were out of his depth, weak and out of touch. | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg does not fare any better. The words that best | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
describe him, week, out of his depth and out of touch. The words or | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
phrases that described UKIP leader Nigel Farage was stand up for | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
Britain, weird, arrogant. We are joined by Laurence Stellings | :09:07. | :09:14. | |
from the firm. First, let us put aside the polling on the economy. It | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
is a kind of sign of a political class on the left and right that is | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
not connecting with the people. It is exactly what you would expect to | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
see. David Cameron, posh and out of touch. My favourite finding has got | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
to be Nigel Farage. You have to be weird to stand up for Britain. The | :09:40. | :09:47. | |
out of touch one is a huge problem. There is such a feeling on the left | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
and right that politicians do not live like normal people. It is | :09:51. | :09:58. | |
indicative that none of the leaders has any great appeal for what we | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
used to call me aspiring working classes and the ambitious | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
lower-middle-class is. The people who determine election results in | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
this country. Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair got them by the shed | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
load. From this poll, you can see none of the main three party leaders | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
have much appeal. Staggering. The top performer is Ed Miliband on | :10:21. | :10:34. | |
shares my values. It is a triumph that Ed Miliband is considered less | :10:35. | :10:42. | |
weird than Nigel Farage. The best performer of principled is Cameron. | :10:43. | :10:51. | |
Nigel Farage's selling point I thought was one of the lads. Have a | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
pint of beer, like ordinary people. What the political class will not | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
do. Iowa's thought it was a very clever trick he played. His | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
background is very privileged -- I always thought. He is not living in | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
the way most people live. He managed to project an authentic character. | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
What happened was the veered slightly into the slightly sweaty | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
sector in the debate. He pulled it back well. Equally well, Nick Clegg | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
also veered into slightly patronising at the start and pulled | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
himself back. There will be a real test of the Nigel Farage persona | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
over the next couple of months. Is this evidence of the political class | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
on the left and right that is increasingly out of touch with | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
voters? There is a general sense that it is a difficult time for the | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
country and none of the parties have offered solutions that people would | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
hope for. Having a coalition takes one of the parties out. One less | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
choice if you want to oppose the government. Although Nigel Farage is | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
described as weird, standing up for Britain is not a bad plus to have if | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
you are a politician. Not at all. But it goes hand-in-hand with weird. | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
20 years of his life IT again something that for many voters is a | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
very minor issue -- fighting against something. It makes him slightly | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
weird. Are these public impressions, do you think they are | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
now embedded, there is nothing they can do this side of the election to | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
change them? Could they change perception? There is still time. | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
Some are embedded. David Cameron has long been seen as slightly smug, out | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
of touch. He is also seen as competent and a good leader. There | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
is a year until the election. In the last few weeks since the budget, the | :12:56. | :13:02. | |
headline voting has closed a little. You saw Adam talk about the system | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
you use of the segmentation of society of voters into various | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
categories. What does it tell us? We macro it gives more detail -- it | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
gives more detail. On the economy, among the calm persistence group, | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
they are slightly more positive towards the Conservatives than | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
Labour. On one of the major issues, among swing voters, the | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
Conservatives have a slight lead. It is a pretty long-term trend. The | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
Conservatives over the last several years have had a lead over Labour | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
when it comes to macroeconomic issues. If 58 trust Cameron and | :13:40. | :13:50. | |
Osborne against 42, you have taken out the don't knows as to not we | :13:51. | :13:58. | |
macro you force people to make a decision -- you force people to make | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
a decision. 58% trust Mr Cameron and Osborne on the economy versus 42% | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
for the Labour Party. That is the finding they will take most comfort | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
from. They want to frame the election about the economy. Two | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
thirds of Lib Dem voters also think the Conservatives are better. In the | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
swing areas where if let Clegg will suffer, where will the votes go? It | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
looks like it will benefit... If you are a loyal live them, you are going | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
to say that with the coalition. A lot of them will still be calling | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
themselves Lib Dem voters and they will feel that the Lib Dems made a | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
sacrifice for the benefit of the economy. The leftish voters will | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
have already gone and they will be on the Labour side. I guess it is | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
going to be quite hard. If the recovery is gathering pace as it | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
seems to between now and the election campaign, changing | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
perceptions on the economy will be tough for Labour. Yes. Labour have a | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
lead when it comes to the cost of living crisis. They need to | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
translate that to the macro economy. For the Conservatives and | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
Lib Dems, they have brought recovery to the country and people feeling | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
that, but will you reward them with your vote? Are enough people feeling | :15:22. | :15:29. | |
the recovery? Outside of London, there is still a sense that the | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
recovery is in the south-east. That is the thing to watch this year. | :15:36. | :15:43. | |
Now, call it what you want, the spare room subsidy, the bedroom tax, | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
it is one of the coalition's highest profile welfare reforms even if it | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
is relatively small beer financially. It is designed to make | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
sure the state is not subsidising people to have homes bigger than | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
they need and it has been up and running for nearly a year. The BBC | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
has carried out research among councils and housing associations | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
across Great Britain to see how it is working and our social affairs | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
correspondent Michael Buchanan can tell us more. One of the main aims | :16:07. | :16:15. | |
of the policy was to free up social housing, to get single occupancy and | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
get these houses into the market so bigger families could take them. | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
What does the survey say? It is proving a lot more difficult than | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
the Government hoped. We got data from 80% of councils in Scotland, | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
England and Wales that have housing stock. That showed us that 6% of | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
tenants who have been affected by this benefit cut have moved in the | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
past year. What that means is there are still a lot of people who would | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
like to downsize. We spoke to a lot of them who cannot find the | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
properties. In other cases it means people who are living in overcrowded | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
accommodation have been unable to find those bigger properties they | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
thought they would be able to move into. It is interesting how it has | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
changed around the country. We spoke to a woman in Hull who downsized | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
from a three-bedroom flat to a one-bedroom flat. That would open up | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
a three bedroomed house for a family to move into and the housing | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
association could not let it out. There was no demand for larger | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
properties. Controversy down in Wiltshire, a rural part of the | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
country, they have got lots of people who are under occupying their | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
properties, but the council say they are not going to build one-bedroom | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
properties. They want to build communities. The other purpose of | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
the reform was to cut the welfare bill. What is the evidence of that? | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
Because most people are staying and paying towards their own rent and | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
because the number of people who are moving into different sized | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
accommodation is quite small, it looks as though the Government is | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
probably, according to the experts, probably on track to get close to | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
the savings they predicted they would make, ?490 million over the | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
course of a year. But what is happening in some cases is what was | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
an essential cost is becoming a local Government housing association | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
cost. We found 28% of people affected by this benefit cut have | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
fallen into arrears for the first time. People who were debt free when | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
the policy came in. The Government will say they have given ?180 | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
million in emergency funding to councils to help the most vulnerable | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
tenants. But we also discovered millions of pounds of that money is | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
going to be handed back to the Treasury because the councils have | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
not spent it. Thank you for marking our card on that BBC survey. | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
Listening to that was the Shadow Employment Minister Stephen Timms | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
and from our studio in Tunbridge Wells is the Conservative MP Charlie | :19:11. | :19:19. | |
Elphicke. Charlie Elphicke, let me come to you first. One of the | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
reasons for implementing the policy was to free up the housing stock. | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
From our survey only 6% have relocated. It is not a huge number. | :19:30. | :19:36. | |
50,000 people have moved, so it shows things are moving in the right | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
direction. But the other issue is people can get into work and there | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
are no swap websites which are coming into force. But if it is | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
putting people into rent arrears, and if most people are staying put, | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
if it is hard to see what the saving is, one wonders what all the fuss | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
was about and why you bothered. There are substantial help funds | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
available to help people who have difficulties, especially people with | :20:06. | :20:12. | |
disability challenges. There are 300,000 people in overcrowding who | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
need a large home and it is important we look after them and we | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
look after taxpayers who spend a lot of money paying taxes, working | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
hard, and they cannot afford a spare room. Why should they effectively | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
subsidised bedrooms for people who are not in work. What do you say to | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
Norman Tebbit, not known for being a soft touch when it comes to welfare, | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
when he says I worry about what Labour calls the bedroom tax. So | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
often a spare room is a vital part of the looking after of an elderly | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
person, it enables relatives to come and carers to be there. What do you | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
say to that? We have made provision for that. For people with disability | :21:01. | :21:08. | |
issues there is a fund available. You could argue that since this | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
policy has only been on the go for one year, already 6% of people have | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
downsized, it is beginning to work. Loo-mac I do not think it is | :21:19. | :21:26. | |
working. It is an unfair policy. 94% have not moved. But it is year one. | :21:27. | :21:34. | |
We do not know where those 6% have gone too. Some of them will have | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
gone into rented accommodation where the rent is higher and that will be | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
paid by housing benefit. It is possible this policy will end up | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
costing more overall than it has saved. What do you say to that? He | :21:49. | :21:58. | |
makes a good point, Labour made a plea to change this accommodation. | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
But it is hard to understand how they draw a distinction. 31,000 | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
people moving is quite a lot and quite a disruption for those who | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
moved. And we do not know what has happened to the 30,000 properties | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
and how many of them are empty? In South Liverpool they have had a 63% | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
increase in the number of vacant three-bedroom properties. Do we have | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
any evidence that these homes being vacated, because of downsizing, have | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
we got any evidence larger families are moving into occupied these | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
homes? I do not know the detail of that, but it is important in a | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
matter of fairness that we make the welfare savings that need to be made | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
because the Labour Party spent so much money and this will save ?1 | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
billion by the time of the next election, ?1 billion more for | :22:57. | :23:03. | |
doctors and nurses. It is unfair to penalised people if there is nowhere | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
smaller for them to move to. That is the problem with many places. That | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
is why the number that has moved its so small. The Government has | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
suddenly decided where they live is inappropriate for them. And Tory | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
controlled Welch says they are not going to build one-bedroom houses | :23:24. | :23:25. | |
because they think people do not want them. There is an issue about | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
getting the right homes in the right places and there is an issue with | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
overcrowding and they need larger accommodation and there are over 1 | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
million spare bedrooms up and down the land. Labour says if it wins | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
this it is going to reverse this, but it also voted for the welfare | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
cap. We are talking about half ?1 billion. Have you worked out how you | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
would kill this but still stay within the welfare cap? Yes, we | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
have. It may well be this policy will cost more than it saves. I | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
understand that. But how would you pay for the half billion saving? We | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
would abolish the tax break for hedge funds is, the funding for the | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
shares for rights scheme and we would plug a loophole that allows | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
employers to classify construction workers as self employed. That would | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
pay for abolishing the bedroom tax. It should be abolished now and if it | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
is not, the next Labour Government would abolish it. And that would | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
keep you in the cap? Yes, it would. Are you sure? I think we could make | :24:43. | :24:50. | |
the changes we have described. But some of these managers have already | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
moved to Switzerland. We would need to follow what happens and make | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
changes as things develop. You would just abolish it out right? Yes, we | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
would. There is a case in applying attacks like this where there is | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
somewhere smaller for an individual to move to. If there is not anywhere | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
smaller, it is unfair to clobber them with a tax. Has this been worth | :25:17. | :25:24. | |
the candle? Labour are making it up as they go along, naming this and | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
that as public saving. They had a bank bonus tax they spent about ten | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
times. Every time the Labour Party challenges us, it is more spending, | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
more debt. How have the policy played out? It has been a disaster. | :25:42. | :25:50. | |
Iain Duncan Smith had a great pitch. Universal welfare credit has been in | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
trouble. All the other parties say they will try and fix it and make it | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
work. With this they did not explain the problem. And unless you explain | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
the problem to voters, it is not popular. They have got a problem | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
with councils who would prefer to have this as a festering sore rather | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
than cough up the money to help the people who need it. I cannot | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
disagree with that or Norman Tebbit! I could not believe families with | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
disabled people were not exempt from this. People who could not sleep in | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
the same bed because somebody needed to be turned and needed a special | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
mattress. Somebody with a child who needed oxygen canisters, all of | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
those people felt under it. It has galvanised labour activists and SNP | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
activists in Scotland. Let's leave it there. Who do you support if you | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
disagree with the free market economy? How do you cast your vote | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
if you think the main parties are all a bit too mainstream? It was an | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
issue that the veteran left-wing film director Ken Loach addressed on | :27:02. | :27:10. | |
Question Time in February last year. There are a lot of people in this | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
country who share a lot of thoughts. They hate the break-up of the | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
National Health Service, they hate the privatisations and the | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
outsourcing and the labour agencies and the low wages. They hate the | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
mass unemployment and there is not a broad movement, a broad party they | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
can vote for. People spend a lot of time saying, who are we going to | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
hold our nose and vote for? We need a broad movement on the left. UKIP | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
has done it for the right. I disagree with almost everything UKIP | :27:44. | :27:53. | |
stands for. But we need a broad movement of the left. And that | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
appearance on the BBC by Ken Loach inspired left-wing activists to come | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
together to try to form a new outfit, Left Unity. Here in the | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
studio is the writer Salman Shaheen who is a member of Left Unity's | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
national coordinating group. Welcome. Who is backing Left Unity | :28:10. | :28:18. | |
apart from Ken Loach? Quite a number of the existing fire left groups are | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
involved, but also a lot of disaffected Labour members are | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
coming over to Left Unity. We have had one member every ten minutes | :28:30. | :28:37. | |
joining up today. What is a lot? We have 1600 members. We founded our | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
party on November the 30th last year. It is a couple of months in. | :28:42. | :28:48. | |
To the left of the Labour Party you have already got the socialist | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
platform, the Communist platform, the Socialist resistance. The | :28:55. | :28:56. | |
Communist Party of Great Britain which is not to be confused with the | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
other ones that run the morning Star, or not to be confused with the | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
Communist Party of Britain. You have got the workers Power, the Alliance | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
for liberty, which is also known as the Socialist organiser. Have I | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
missed anyone out? They have all signed up to support Left Unity. | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
Will they be at your conference? We will find out. But you must know. | :29:24. | :29:32. | |
Left Unity is an individual member -based organisation. Some will have | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
signed up, some will have not. It depends on whether policy wrangling | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
details appeal to people like that. I appreciate the point of trying to | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
get unity to the left of the Labour Party, but isn't the likelihood that | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
you will add Left Unity to that list of other left-wing groups I have | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
just read out? It is like life of Brian! That is a commonly used | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
phrase. I have hung my head in the past over the inability of the left | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
to get on. That we have a serious problem with austerity which is | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
damaging the lives of the most vulnerable people in this country | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
and Labour is not providing an effective opposition to that. Having | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
followed some of these groups, your chances of unity based on recent | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
history is close to zero. You have got to try, even if it is like | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
banging your head against the wall. It is too important not to. It is | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
important for democracy as well. If Labour is in the middle ground with | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
the Tories and Lib Dems, there is no left-wing voice. The conference is | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
in Manchester tomorrow. It was the last event you had was described as | :30:50. | :30:56. | |
a bit of a shambles, quote. That was by one of your leading members on | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
your own website. There were a lot of people there, 500 people, a lot | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
of views coming together. Or not coming together. They did come | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
together because we agreed a founding statement. We are trying to | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
do something which has not been done on the left before. A bottom-up | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
grassroots democratic organisation. If democracy is messy, it has got to | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
be done. You have not decided on a policy over whether Britain should | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
be in the EU. It will be decided. You have 66 pages of motions in six | :31:33. | :31:40. | |
hours. That is right. I have not even read them all myself. It will | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
be a tough day. We have another conference coming up in June to | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
handle the rest of our policy. It is a very long process. The Labour | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
Party took a very long time to form and learn and get to where it is | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
today. We need to be very careful that all people's views are | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
represented and that it is not a top-down bureaucratic state up. -- | :32:04. | :32:13. | |
stitch up. One of the motions but is to disband in the British Army and | :32:14. | :32:21. | |
arm the people -- bottom-up. I will be voting against that and I do not | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
suspect it will pass. April have the right to bear arms and defend | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
themselves. -- people have the right. I disagree with the motion. | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
Do you think it will get through? No. The majority of Left Unity | :32:37. | :32:45. | |
members are disaffected ex-Labour Party members who are in favour of a | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
broad church left-wing party. Does it mean you do not regard yourself | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
as quite as left as the Communist Party of Great Britain? I do not | :32:54. | :33:03. | |
consider myself quite as left. Their members are members -- of left | :33:04. | :33:18. | |
unity. All political parties have... Would you like them to leave | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
these groups and come and join you? They are members of their groups. | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
They are also members of Left Unity. It does not mean you have to leave | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
your existing party. You are all welcome and the church. I get the | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
feeling you are on the moderate wing. I am. The UKIP manifesto has | :33:37. | :33:44. | |
restoring the Circle line to be a circle. It is not by any means... | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
This is simply a motion, not their policy. It is funny when we make the | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
comparison with UKIP because what they have done is that they might | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
deliver the next election for the Labour Party. Is your aspiration to | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
run candidates against Labour Party candidates or do you want to see | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
yourself more as a pressure group? It is both. We have not decided when | :34:11. | :34:17. | |
we will stand in elections but we are intending to stand. We will | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
inevitably be running against an Labour Cabinet. -- candidates. The | :34:21. | :34:29. | |
13 Labour MPs who voted against the welfare cap, I think they did a | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
fantastic job and they should be applauded for doing what they were | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
elected to do. You are not putting up candidates in the European | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
elections question mark we have only just started. The Green Party had | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
their candidates in place two years before the elections. Have you | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
invited Diane Abbott? No, we have not. She was one of the 13. She is | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
in labour and we are a party outside of labour. Why don't you join the | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
Labour Party and try to get it to move to what you would like it to | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
be? Wouldn't that be more effective? Some people take that view. The late | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
great Tony Benn took that view. I have a lot of time for such | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
opinions. But it seems to me that they are shouting into the wind. The | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
Labour Party have been dominated by a very centre-right almost agenda | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
for a very long time. It has signed up to Conservative spending plans | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
and if people support Labour, if they vote Labour, what they will get | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
is a government that is not so radically different from the Tories. | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
Voters need a choice. Some of the other groups might be wanting to | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
make what you do a thankless task. They can be tribal. I hope we can | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
get along together in a spirit of unity. Sounds like we will end up | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
with disunity tomorrow. Two things are interesting. If we get a couple | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
of more hung parliaments, we will see more of this thing, frat drink | :36:08. | :36:14. | |
from the main political parties. -- fracturing. We have a full party | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
system in England now. Not just in Scotland, Wales and Northern | :36:19. | :36:25. | |
Ireland. There is now someone making a case against austerity. The | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
difference between Labour and the Tories, there has been a conspiracy | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
between George Osborne and Ed Balls. They are arguing about a very | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
small amount of money. Green Party supporters say, why don't we get the | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
exposure UKIP got? They have got an MP. They are not seen as being | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
someone who is taking votes from Labour like UKIP. If there is a kind | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
of left of Labour Party that is deemed to be taking away from | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
Labour, that will make it more interesting to the media. What is | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
the biggest thing you hope to achieve tomorrow? I want us to begin | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
our road to the manifesto and agree very strong clear anti-austerity | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
policies and defending the NHS and repealing the bedroom tax and | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
renationalising the railways and the energy companies to make a better | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
society for consumers and workers. Not that different from what the | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
left of the Labour Party would like. But the left of the Labour Party do | :37:28. | :37:36. | |
not run the Labour Party. Thank you. Now, Nigel Farage is rarely off your | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
screens at the moment. And here he is again, talking to me on the | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
Sunday Politics a few weeks ago. I asked him about allegations, denied | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
by him, that he used public money to employ both his wife and his former | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
mistress. Let us get a sense... I am very | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
upset with the BBC coverage of this. The Ten O'Clock News ran this as a | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
story without explaining the allegation was made using | :37:58. | :37:59. | |
parliamentary privilege by someone on bail facing serious fraud | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
charges. Nikki Sinclaire. The BBC did not explain that. | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
The MEP who made those claims, Nikki Sinclaire, is here now. Welcome to | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
the Daily Politics. We have just seen the interview with Nigel | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
Farage. What are you objecting to in the interview? He is supposed to be | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
standing up for British values, innocent until proven guilty. I | :38:25. | :38:31. | |
totally refute these allegations against me. It has been two years | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
since these allegations were made. I have not been interviewed by the | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
police for more than 18 months. I think he was trying to attack in | :38:39. | :38:44. | |
order to defend himself. You are still on bail for fraud? | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
Unfortunately so. It had they brought charges early on, the trial | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
would have been over and done with. Have you approached the police? | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
Absolutely. They say, this is what we are doing. It is an anomaly in | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
our system. Until you are in the situation, you do not realise. It is | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
about expenses claims. It can't be that complicated. This refers to a | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
time as a UKIP MEP. There was an important in my office. We cannot | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
discuss the ins and outs of it. It only to them. They have had all of | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
the paperwork. They should have charged me. I would have been to | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
court, found not guilty. I do not believe they have enough to charge | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
me. That is why they have not come forward yet? They have had two | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
years. We could have had the trial. Have you got a bit of a vendetta | :39:47. | :39:54. | |
against Mr Farage? No. I fell out with his linking to Holocaust | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
deniers which was not what UKIP was supposed to be about. I was in UKIP | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
from the start. Let us be clear. The BBC does not make this point to | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
Nigel Farage. He has been an MEP for 15 years and there have been 19 | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
other UKIP MEPs and he has fallen out with 11. The 12 MEPs he took to | :40:14. | :40:20. | |
Brussels, he has fallen out with six. Surely it cannot be all of us? | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
I made the point he had the habit of falling out with some. More than | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
half of his parliamentary party. These are your figures. They are on | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
public record. What do you say to the charge that you abused voluntary | :40:37. | :40:44. | |
privilege -- parliamentary privilege quest at he has used the same | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
privilege so it is hypocritical. He has twice used the defence to make | :40:48. | :40:56. | |
accusations against people. You have started a new party. We Demand A New | :40:57. | :41:16. | |
Party. Centres Baize We, The Public. It Is A Regional Thing. Let Us Be | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
Clear. You Have Asked Me What The Difference Is Between Us And Ukip. | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
What Has Ukip Done? The Biggest Thing That Forced The Debate In This | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
Country Was The Referendum That Brought Cameron. Centres Case Macro | :41:32. | :41:41. | |
We Forced The Debate And Was Nigel Farage One Of Those 100,000 | :41:42. | :41:52. | |
Signatures? He refused to do so. He has five years ago claimed so much | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
in expenses. What have they done with all of this money, ?45 million | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
since 1999? What you are illustrating is something on the | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
right that we were talking about. I am not right wing. You end up | :42:10. | :42:16. | |
dividing and dividing. You want the same thing as UKIP when it comes to | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
a referendum and you want to vote no to get out of Europe. That is the | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
fundamental thing. I want the people to have a choice. It is the same as | :42:26. | :42:32. | |
UKIP and you are dividing by standing yourself and you say you | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
will put up other candidates but you will not tell me the number, by | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
doing that, you are dividing the vote in the same way as all of the | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
left-wing splinter groups. We left our regional political parties. I | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
was a member of one of the main three political parties. We left on | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
principle. UKIP have blown its principles. It has linked itself | :42:54. | :43:01. | |
with extremists, people with criminal convictions, Holocaust | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
deniers, violence against immigrants, that is the people it is | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
linked with in the European Parliament. It has abused its | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
principles. No one can tell me what UKIP has tangibly done. I can point | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
in five years to something I have done to move the debate along. If | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
you lose in the European elections, is that your political career over? | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
There is more to life than politics, but I do not think so. I have been | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
in politics since the age of ten. What will you do if you lose? I will | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
keep campaigning because I believe in what I am campaigning for. Just | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
as an individual, standing up for what I believe in. My constituents | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
know me. I am likely to go back on the charges. I am the only MEP who | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
has audited accounts which shows I have put in ?100,000 of my post-tax | :43:55. | :44:02. | |
salary back into my work. No other MEP in this country can show that. | :44:03. | :44:10. | |
What do you make of this? UKIP is a party where I very rarely see a | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
female face. The candidate in Eastleigh was female. That is true. | :44:16. | :44:23. | |
But there is a week of looking as -- but there are a lot of blokes. What | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
female friendly policies does UKIP have? You will not find a senior | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
woman in UKIP that has been there more than five years. I have only | :44:35. | :44:42. | |
had two female MEPs and they have lost both of us. I have been a | :44:43. | :44:44. | |
victim of violence from Nigel Farage. Assault in the European | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
Parliament. This is the type of attitude. When I was on the national | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
executive, we had meetings in gentleman's clubs. It is certainly | :44:58. | :45:04. | |
the case Nigel Farage runs a tight fiefdom. It is only recently he has | :45:05. | :45:11. | |
brought innate human could -- he has brought innate immune occasions | :45:12. | :45:19. | |
director. We had Kilroy silk, other high-profile people. All of them | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
have fallen out with him. Four of the previous six leaders, he has | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
fallen out with. You seem more exercised about this than any other | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
issue. You claimed you were a victim of violence. Of assault. His violent | :45:35. | :45:41. | |
temper. His violent temper. Not physical assault? Verbal assault? | :45:42. | :45:52. | |
No, physical assault. It is witness. He did not hit you quest at that is | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
battery. Assault is one someone threatens you. To get revenge, | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
having listened to you, I think most viewers would conclude that your | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
main purpose in life is to get revenge. Absolutely not. My main | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
achievement is forcing David Cameron to the dispatch box to talk about a | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
referendum. UKIP did not fight that campaign. My main purpose in life is | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
to get a referendum on our man ship of the era of -- the European Union. | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
Who were you rooting for in the Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg debate? | :46:29. | :46:35. | |
For us. I think that will come as a surprise to him. There was a time | :46:36. | :46:42. | |
when Westminster and the long boozy lunch went together like steak and a | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
bottle of Margaux, or a cheese roll and a glass of warm Liebfraumilch if | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
you come round here on the Friday lunchtime. But these days | :46:51. | :46:52. | |
journalists are a much more abstemious bunch. Have a look at | :46:53. | :46:54. | |
this. In the age of the Internet where | :46:55. | :47:15. | |
everybody is on a deadline or on Twitter, you cannot disappear for | :47:16. | :47:23. | |
three hours in the afternoon. Old MPs would moan about the lack of | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
dining clubs, but now there are more women here and we are getting more | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
sober and more sensible. There was a legendary journalist who was famous | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
for returning to the office after a lunch for a different suit. On the | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
way home he stopped to relieve himself and he fell in the Thames. | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
So Winston Churchill was a notorious drinker and John Smith, the leader | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
of Labour, and even Roy Jenkins, were known to like a glass or two | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
while they were working. The boozer is the way of loosening their | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
tongues and you get more out of them. They are more likely to let | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
their guard slip. That does not happen quite as often. When one is | :48:11. | :48:19. | |
on the top of their game they do not allow their tongue to soften up with | :48:20. | :48:27. | |
drink. The first drink I had was with Nigel Farage a few years ago | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
with a couple of bloody Mary 's, some white wine and a bottle of | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
red. By that point I was ready for a sleep. Nigel was fine and I | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
staggered of home and he went and did a pre-record for Newsnight. That | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
was the blogger Harry Cole ending that clip and he wrote about the | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
death of the booze fuelled lunch for this week's Spectator Life. And he | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
drew extensively for the piece on the knowledge of none other than Tim | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
Shipman. You are quoted saying, when I arrived in Westminster in 2001, it | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
was not unusual to sink half a bottle over lunch every day. Three | :49:08. | :49:14. | |
bottles was far from unusual. What is the consumption rate these days? | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
It is lot less than that. It is boring in Westminster. I had a lunch | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
yesterday and not a drop past our lips. I blame the new intake. Most | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
of them are more interested in penning policy papers. The new | :49:30. | :49:38. | |
intake of politicians? Yes. I feel I got in 30 years too late. They would | :49:39. | :49:46. | |
do a 32 page paper and you would sub two pages in the afternoon and that | :49:47. | :49:53. | |
would be a good day's work. You only smoked two cigarettes when | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
considering the headline. All that has now gone. It is blog something | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
immediately, tweet something immediately. You have to be ready to | :50:02. | :50:08. | |
go to the TV studios. The pace has increased so much. It is true. The | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
days when you wrote one article a week or do two stories a week, those | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
days have gone. You are expected to appear on 24 hour news, to tweet, to | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
do other things. It is a round-the-clock job. There are great | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
exceptions. There was a penal member of the Labour Party who sank an | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
entire bottle of lunch on her own and probably went of to Sky | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
Television and did a good interview. I sat down with a member of the | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
Shadow Cabinet and they had got to lunch before me and a double gin was | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
already on the globe. There are people still upholding some of these | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
traditions. It sounds a bit less fun. If you ask now people who work | :50:55. | :51:02. | |
in journalism if they would give up coffee or booze, they find that | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
tough because we rely so much on caffeine to get us through the day. | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
And John Bercow has not been that interested in drinking. He is | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
discouraging it. But on his watch we have had punch-ups in the bars and | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
we found one MP had his collar felt. Some of the MPs are doing their | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
best. But the people you want to take to lunch have a more serious | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
view of these things. Some journalists say they write better. I | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
do not. I have one drink and I go to sleep. If you move to a Sunday | :51:40. | :51:46. | |
paper, you could indulge a bit more, off the relentless treadmill of the | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
day. Some people find the class concentrates the mind. | :51:52. | :51:58. | |
Labour and the Liberal Democrats say they are happy for a televised | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
debates to go ahead in the same format as agreed before the last | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
election, we have just found out. The Liberal Democrats have rejected | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
any debate that only include David Cameron and Ed Miliband. I assume | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
there would be a legal challenge from the Lib Dems if that happened. | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
The Conservatives say the Prime Minister wants to debate, but they | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
are not clear how they should proceed. It is breaking news. Tim | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
and Helen have enjoyed so many long lunches they can barely recall the | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
news of the week. Here is a round-up of the week in 60 seconds. | :52:40. | :52:47. | |
Nick versus Nigel was the top of Westminster. No hokey Cokie, but a | :52:48. | :52:54. | |
lot of in and out. Nigel Farage celebrated by, yes? I am not off to | :52:55. | :53:10. | |
church. SSE reignited the energy price row. Why it was a price freeze | :53:11. | :53:19. | |
wrong six months ago, but it is right today? We have reduced the | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
cost of energy charges. As things got heated, John Bercow restored | :53:24. | :53:33. | |
order with a lightning aurora. Order! It will take more than that | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
to calm angry teachers who went out on strike over pay and pensions. One | :53:39. | :53:44. | |
day later, a different feel on the streets as friends and folk gathered | :53:45. | :53:51. | |
to say farewell to Tony Benn. I hope that has refreshed your memories. | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
What is the Conservative position on televised debates? Internally they | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
would only like to have a debate with Ed Miliband. They thought it | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
was not a good thing last time because Nick Clegg muddied the | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
waters and he got exposure. They repeatedly say they want debates. | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
That is official, but behind the scenes it is not clear. In the last | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
few weeks Labour spokesmen are saying, we signed up as the same as | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
last time, but they are also prepared to say the important thing | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
is we get David Cameron signed up and we have a debate between the two | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
potential prime ministers. They are not ruling out Nick Clegg, but the | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
fact they have inched towards the conservative position is | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
interesting. The Conservatives think before the election campaign has | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
started, it would be possible to do David Cameron and Ed Miliband. If | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
they did it in February and March it would be possible to do that and | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
maybe have one debate and not have any debate during the campaign. | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
There was talk among the Conservatives about having the | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
debates, but we think the debates hijacked the campaign, so let's have | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
the debates before the official campaign begins. That may be a hard | :55:11. | :55:17. | |
one to run. It might be. But they want to have the idea that David | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
Cameron is the first alternative, but it turned out that Nick Clegg | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
was the fresher alternative. You can see from the point of view of Ed | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
Miliband why he wants that. You get a good pull-back when you are | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
standing toe to toe with the Prime Minister and they want that image in | :55:40. | :55:46. | |
people's minds. If it is held outside the official election | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
period, by that I mean David Cameron versus Ed Miliband, the chances of a | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
legal challenge may be more difficult to win. That is the | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
conservative position, they think they will get away with it. They | :56:00. | :56:08. | |
think that maybe better than exposing him to the danger of an | :56:09. | :56:16. | |
insurgent Ed Miliband. What is in it for David Cameron? Who is he going | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
to convince? It is a whole lot of stuff for him to lose as incumbent. | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
He took control of the campaign in the last time. There was a two-day | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
build-up and then there was the day and there was two days of post-match | :56:32. | :56:39. | |
analysis. This week will not have helped that. They will have watched | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
the debate with interest and the political media obsession, and the | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
frenzy on Twitter. It has consumed the entire week and that reinforces | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
what they thought last time. They would have liked the post-budget | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
headlines to run for longer and that has got changed. The debate between | :57:01. | :57:07. | |
Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg overtook the headlines. Yes, when instead | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
they could have had headlines about labour being in trouble after the | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
budget. Yesterday Michael Gove was taking part in the BBC School news | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
report. He was asked about his favourite rap. Which one did you | :57:26. | :57:33. | |
pick? He said he liked Chuck D. Then he picked the Wham Rap. That his | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
previous interview said he followed another one. You recently said you | :57:39. | :57:46. | |
quite like rap music, so I was wondering, could you give us a taste | :57:47. | :57:59. | |
of your favourite rap. I have got so many, the original was the Wham Rap. | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
Hey everybody take a look at me, I've got street credibility. I may | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
not have a job, but I have a good time. With the boys that I meet down | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
on the line. It is interesting he liked rap based on welfare benefits! | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
The Wham Rap came out in 1982, talking about the virtues of | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
unemployment. Here is what it should sound like. | :58:23. | :58:24. | |
Hey, everybody, take a look at me, I've got street credibility. I may | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
not have a job, but I have a good time. With the boys that I meet down | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
on the line. Not quite as good as the real thing, | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
but he tried. He could sell himself up with a leather jacket and a | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
quiff. That is what you call hinterland! We will be back on BBC | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
One on Sunday with the Daily Politics and I will be interviewing | :58:54. | :58:54. | |
Ed Davey. Goodbye. | :58:55. | :59:01. |