13/06/2014 Daily Politics

Barack Obama says all options are on the table but it's still not

clear if he intends to do very much about the collapse of Iraq.

In the last 24 hours the Islamist extremists have seized two new towns

The Governor of the Bank of England warns interest rates may rise sooner

than the markets expect. But how soon?

We report on the wheeler-dealering in Brussels as

newly-elected MEPs try to form new pan-European political groupings.

And did you know that as well as its own flag,

All that in the next hour and with us for the next half

an hour is Times political correspondent Laura Pitel.

Let's kick off with last night's warning

from the Bank of England governor Mark Carney that interest rates

It rather overshadowed everything that George Osborne had to say.

There is speculation about the exact timing of the first rate hike and

this decision is becoming more balanced. It could happen sooner

than financial markets currently expect. But to be clear, there is no

preset course. The ultimate decision will be driven by the data. That was

the governor last night. A characteristic dry delivery that he

gives. Any idea why he has decided to say this? He wants to give people

a warning. If interest rates are going to go up it could be good news

for savers. We have had rubbish rates. They will not go much. And it

could be serious news for people with a mortgage. Some people are

struggling to handle the cost of living and if you're going to have a

massive hike on your mortgage payment, it is bad news. But it will

not be a massive hike to begin with. The governor has made it clear

not be a massive hike to begin with. that any rise will be very small to

begin with. And even when he reaches the peak of the interest rate cycle,

he does not think it will go back to the average of 5% before the crash,

it is more likely to be around three. It is not good news of you

have a mortgage but it may not be a disaster? It may be 2.25% over the

next three years. Mark Carney made it clear it would be a slow change

but it is interesting politically, because we had expected that the

interest rate hike might be held after the general election but comes

forward, is tricky. I have always thought he would not put interest

rates up until the second half of the next year. But the markets have

been pricing he would do it in the first part of next year, maybe the

first quarter. I wonder, he said he may do it sooner than the markets

were expecting. He may want to get it in this year, the first rise,

because to raise interest rates in the middle of an election campaign,

which will start on January one, is probably a sensible thing for any

banker to do. The markets have been expecting it in February time, maybe

before Christmas, in November. It presents a tricky dilemma for George

Osborne. If there is an interest rate rise he will say the economy is

recovering, we need it. It was interesting last night because he

said the economy was growing at an annual rate of 4%. If it is true

then you cannot keep interest rates at 0.5%. No, you cannot because

inflation will end up going out of control. The thing that is tricky is

Ed Miliband's big thing is the cost of living crisis. If the interest

rates go up, people will have bigger mortgage payments and that will play

into his agenda. If you have a mortgage, you should do your own

risk assessment and look at what will happen if interest rates go up

one and a half, 2%, where would that leave you with mortgage payments?

Exactly. Now it's time for our daily quiz.

David and Samantha Cameron were papped

on Wednesday having a night out in central London, so our question

for today is, what were they doing? Was it a)

Seeing the play Handbagged? b) Hanging out with celebs

at the Chiltern Firehouse? c) Enjoying some peri

peri chicken at Nandos? d) Partying in the notorious Soho

nightclub The Box? And a bit later in the show Laura

will give us the correct answer. Dealing with education manifesto

gets people squabbling like kids in a classroom. Here is what Nick Clegg

had to say. All parents, all mums and dads need parental guarantee

that regardless of what school their children go to cover all of their

children will be taught by qualified teachers, teachers who are seeking

and all their children will be taught a core body of knowledge,

regardless of whether the school is a free School, an academy or a

maintained school. We've been joined from Liverpool

by the Lib Dem's education spokesman What is new is what has been brought

about by the situation in Birmingham where the schools have not had the

freedom to teach a national curriculum and have got themselves

into all sorts of problems. I believe, as a head teacher myself

for 25 years, the most important thing for me in education is having

a qualified teacher. And secondly, making sure that all schools,

whether they are free schools are academies, follow a slimmed down

national curriculum which makes sure that we teach and give people the

flexibility which they have. If qualified teachers are so important,

when the academies act was passed in 2010 which allows for unqualified

teachers in academies, why did only six Lib Dem MPs vote against it?

First of all, you are right, Labour allowed academies to have

non-qualified teachers teaching. This was the Tory legislation. The

original academies at brought under the Blair government allowed for the

first time non-qualified teachers to be teaching in the classroom. Long

before that we had a system which does not get a mention, which is

when teachers are sick or on a course, you often have teaching

assistants brought in who do not have teaching qualifications. They

do a fantastic job but they are not qualified teachers. To go back to

your direct question, I think you learn from what happens. I think

politicians have said that is quite wrong. They should not be chastised,

they should be welcomed for being brave enough to say no, in all

schools, the most important thing is the quality of the teacher and that

goes without saying. Mr Clegg, the leader of your party and Mr laws in

the education department, they were both taught by unqualified teachers.

What damage did it do them? It is not to say there are not occasions

where you bring people into schools, into a classroom situation, who have

real qualities and expertise in a particular area, but the day-to-day

classroom teaching, whether it is in the primary school, or whether it is

in a secondary school, needs somebody who is qualified and

trained. What do we mean by that? They know about child development.

Can the person who taught David Laws or Nick Clegg be able to identify if

a child was dyslexic or not? If you just bring anybody in, those vital

ingredients of qualification are lost. And actually, it can be very

dangerous. New -- you need people who are qualified but also people

who will inspire and motivate. You will remember probably a teacher who

inspired you and that goes for all of us. If there are inspiring

teachers and schools who are not qualified and they do not want to go

down the route of qualification, will you fire them? If somebody does

not want to become a qualified teacher and we agree that all

children have the right to be taught by a qualified teacher, they will

have to step aside and maybe they will become a classroom assistant or

an assistant teacher. So inspiring teachers, if they do not follow your

rules, you will fire them? I did not say that. If somebody does not want

to become a qualified teacher, they can become an assistant to a

qualified teacher. They will be downgraded? That is an insult to

classroom assistants who do a fantastic job. They assist teachers

so an inspiring teacher who does not want to follow your rules will be

demoted to an assistant? So your assistant producer is downgraded?

You have not met my assistant producers say he would not be saying

that! While I have got you on, you will see that Mr Miliband and Mr

Clegg got their photographs taken with the Sun newspaper, apparently

it is something to do with a sporting competition going on in

Brazil at the moment. The leader of the Liberal Democrats in Liverpool

has Brazil at the moment. The leader of

the Liberal Democrats called on Mr Clegg to apologise for being seen

with the Sun. You Clegg to apologise for being seen

with the were a city councillor and city leader of Liverpool Council,

should he apologise? Of course he should. I do not think people

outside Merseyside realise the great upset and harm that the Sun caused

people of the city. It is an insult to what has happened. Both Miliband

and Nick Clegg should clearly apologise for the hurt they have

caused, particularly to the family and friends of those people

tragically killed at Hillsborough. and friends of those people

Thank you for that. Nice to talk to you.

Interesting there. There is pressure on both. I am puzzled with Mr

on both. I am puzzled with Miliband. Mr Clegg is a northern MP

as well. Why did it not stored on any of the people around them that

being seen holding up a copy of the Sun would not go down in Liverpool?

Ya No the Sun knows it will not go down well because they did not

deliver the paper there. It is an interesting situation. They could

have done without this after the bacon sandwich incident. In a great

he looked quite silly in the photo to add insult to injury. It is

remarkable that they pay all these people for advice. I understand that

Mr Miliband has apologised to the people of Merseyside, much good it

will probably do him and no doubt Mr Clegg will follow. It is apology

Friday. ISIS is an extreme Sunni Islamist

group which used to be a franchise of Al-Qaeda but became too hard line

even for it. It is now in control of huge swathes of eastern Iraq, the

country's second city. Everywhere it goes, it opens the jails to boost

its numbers, empties the banks to fund its operation and enforces the

strictest sharia law, including executions, amputations, beheadings

and crucifixions. It has taken a further two towns close to Baghdad

which is now preparing for an attack. President Obama has said

nothing except he is looking at his options, none of which are great.

Meanwhile, Iran's Revolutionary guard has been deployed to aid its

beleaguered Shia allies in the east of Iraq. We will talk about what is

happening there in the moment but first, let's have a look at the

timeline of events in Iraq since the invasion in 2003.

British and American troops invaded Iraq in March 2003, leading to the

toppling of Saddam Hussein's government. In September, the former

president was captured near his hometown of Tikrit which has just

been taken by ISIS. The following summer the US-led administration

transferred powers to the Iraqi government. Two years later, Nouri

al-Maliki formed the first post-war government. Later that year, Sadam

Hussein was executed. In 2007, Britain handed over the Basra

province to Iraqi forces. It marked the end of five years of British

occupation but Britain had lost control of southern Iraq before they

left. And the last troops withdrew from the country in September 2011.

Mr Obama wanted to keep some aside. 2013 was Iraq's deadliest year since

2008 with nearly 10,000 civilians killed in clashes between security

forces and largely Sunni Islamist militants. In April this year,

Iraqis voted in their first parliamentary elections since the

withdrawal of US troops but the elections were marred by nationwide

violence. Last night, Barack Obama said Iraq

was going to need more help from the US and the international community

and did not rule out airstrikes. My team is

working around the clock to identify how we can provide the most

effective assistance to them. I don't rule out anything because we

do have a stake in making sure that these jihadists are not getting a

permanent foothold in either Iraq or I'm joined now from Cardiff by

Ann Clwyd, who was Tony Blair's special envoy on human rights to

Iraq in 2003, John McTernan, who worked for Tony Blair

in Downing Street, is in Edinburgh. And Richard Ottaway,

chair of the Foreign Affairs Select You listened to President Obama, it

does not really sound like he knows what to do. He has made it clear

there will not be boots on the ground that he is prepared to

intervene. I expect there is quite a bit of intelligence and an

assessment on what is going on. What will this amount to? At the moment,

it will be logistical, humanitarian intelligence -based. I do not know

what that means? That means you can provide support for getting more

equipment there, humanitarian means money for aid. They have all the

latest American equipment. This is a fast moving situation and you do not

want to have knee jerk reactions. I am asking you what you think the

President should do. He has said he is considering all options. That is

the right thing to do. There is nothing obvious that the West can

do. What is important is to prop up the Kurds in the north. They are an

oasis of stability and prosperity. They have the good, well-trained

army. They have been circumvented. A lot of our focus should go on there.

But, it is not to say we are not interested and you have to look at

the options. There is nothing obvious the West can do, is there?

They can accelerate the supply of the new equipment to Iraq. They can

obviously, as Richard said, shared intelligence. And for the Kurdish

autonomous region, it is vital they do offer specific support like

restoring the no-fly zone. You can do air strikes. There is a capacity

for us to strike if we need to. What is the point of providing the Iraqi

army with new equipment if it drops it and runs away and it ends up in

the hands of Islamist militants? Sky it is very clear that when the Prime

Minister ordered the British and American troops to leave, he made a

massive, strategic error. In the end, if we do not want Baghdad to

fall and for democracy to stay, we will have to act. I'd take a more

positive view of what President Obama has said. What is the point of

giving them equipment they are not prepared to use? The most

sophisticated equipment is now ending up in the hands of ISIS. What

is clear is that we need to give military, defence and military

support everywhere we can. It takes time to make any deployment. We must

be clear and President Obama has been clear we will not allow ISIS to

gain a country from which they can then export the terrorism fell in

the region. How to we make that clear? Iran knows what it is doing.

It is deploying Revolutionary guards to help its Shi'ite friends in

Baghdad. Had we make it clear? We have no power to make it clear? Iraq

is in a very difficult situation at the moment. I had a phone call ten

minutes ago from the wife of a man who was the Water Minister in

Baghdad. She is the sister-in-law of the President. She said to me that

ten young women have been captured by ISIS on the road from Baghdad to

Kurdistan. Now they are demanding a ransom for each one of them. We know

how difficult the situation is. The question is, what is to be done? I

am not hearing anything that is so far practical. Sky we cannot

possibly say exactly what the military should do. I worry about

things like drones. They have too many accidents and bombed the wrong

people very often. I am concerned about the vast number of people,

there are supposed to be half a million people already, who have

gone towards the burden with Kurdistan. I think the Kurds are

perfectly able to protect themselves. They moved into Cukor

and that has been a disputed territory for some time. -- Kirkuk.

It is about the rest of the country. It is an urgent situation. I think

the intelligence, both on the American side and the British side,

has been absolutely rotten. The Pentagon warned the president in

February of this year this would happen, in broad terms, and nothing

was done. I will come to Richard now. The Kurds ignored the Americans

and formed their own army. What is the point of a no-fly zone over what

we might call Kurdistan in northern Iraq? ISIS do not have any planes.

Kurdistan is now a semi-independent autonomous region. It was not given

to them by the Americans. They had their own constitution. High point

is that the Americans did not want the Kurds to have an army. -- my

point is. My point is they do not need our protection. You are

disillusioned to think the Kurds do not need our protection. What we

do? We need to tell them we are right behind them and standing

shoulder to shoulder with them. What does that mean? Politically, it

means quite a lot. If you are going to say you are going to give all

that it needs to protect the region, that can possibly prevent an

escalation. I do not think we have the capacity to deploy troops. Going

back to your original question, we have participated in a no-fly zone

before, together with the Americans. Whether we have the capacity now to

do so again remains to be seen. I asked the question. What is the

point of a no-fly zone in northern Iraq when ISIS do not have any

planes? If you can control airspace, you can often control the

ground. You need a military person here to say it. They have already

captured helicopters. They are very sophisticated helicopters. It is

unlikely they know how to fly them. Northern Iraq seems to be under

control at the moment. Is dinner rack is now in the hands of a

machine that was too powerful for Al-Qaeda. The Americans are helping

in the West and helping the Government in eastern Iraq. The

company is de facto partitioned. Sky you cannot say it will be

partitioned. It is occupied by ISIS. There has been a catastrophic

failure by the Prime Minister and we are in an extraordinary situation

where the new relationship that America has with Ron is being tested

in a very challenging way, a way we have not anticipated. -- with Irani.

Grant will also protect the Kurds. We do have to go back to using our

intelligence and using drone strikes, actually using the weapons

we have. We do not need boots on the ground. We will probably have to be

talking to Iran at the moment. Was the real catastrophic failure not

John McTiernan and and included, going into the country in the first

place? There was no Al-Qaeda Organisation in 2003 and the place

is covered with them now. A man was in charge committed to the genocide

of the Kurds. It is an utterly amoral position to say we would

rather have a fascist dictator, a strong man, holding that they

Al-Qaeda and holding at bay Irani. It is an amoral politics. We have no

idea what the Coalition Government thinks. They appear to have no

foreign policy in this area. They have not said we should intervene or

do what ever President Obama has done. They are silent because they

have no idea what to do. It is a shocking disgrace to have our

government in that position. It is true that Saddam Hussein was a

fascist dictatorship. There is crucifying and beheading at the

moment. The difference is that these people can export back to the West.

Saddam Hussein did not do that. He might have done that, Andrew. It is

not true to say archives was not in Iraq before 2003. Ask the Kurds. --

Al-Qaeda. Kurds were being executed and the Americans were called in.

There were a handful of them and the place is awash. Please started off

as a handful. Andrew is the chair of the foreign affairs select

committee. We were due to go to Kurdistan this Sunday. We were given

a security briefing on Tuesday and it seemed to me that people than

were only vaguely aware of what was going on. I do not think we knew

much of anything. What is coalition policy at the moment? It is

ridiculous to say the Foreign Office has no policy. The policy has always

been to recognise Iraq as a state which we supported. We will provide

it with humanitarian support and political support. That will

continue to be the case. This has caught at everyone. I think you

would rather have a Revolutionary guard, wouldn't you? I am not sure

he would like to have the Revolutionary guard from Tehran, to

be honest with you. He has got it. Since when? It is pretty rich for

the Iranians to be complaining. This attack from ISIS was born in an

unstable region of Syria. The reason it is unstable is because the lack

of support by the Iranians. You heard Richard to weigh outline

coalition policy. You any the wiser? I am not. There is a savage irony

that this does start in Syria so that a place that we intervened in

successfully is being stabilised by a place that we did not intervene

in. What is Labour 's policy in this matter? Labour 's policy is to

support. It is rare for the opposition to split from what the

Government is doing. The pressure is on the Government to say what they

are going to do. Labour has always been clear about support for the

Kurds in the autonomous region. That is the test I apply to all of this.

What is in the best interests of the Kurds? What is in their best

interests would be in the best interests of everyone. I think there

is a dark humour in talking about us. I do not understand how our

politicians can talk about we doing something militarily when you have

made redundant and other round of troops this week. We have not said

we will intervene militarily. That is not a policy. It is a clear

policy. In international affairs quit you cannot react to a situation

that started on Tuesday with an instant policy by Friday. You have

to sit back, assess what is going on on the ground, and come up with

something clear. That is why the Labour Party is not saying anything

because they agree with that. That would be true of the Americans. They

have a big decision to take. We should stop behaving as if we have

any say, or any clout, in this matter whatsoever. As a permanent

member of the Security Council of the United Nations, we have a lot of

say in what happens with world affairs and what will happen here.

What would you do? Sky I would say everybody took their eye off the

ball. -- I would say. Everybody took their eye off the ball. That is a

big mistake. We went into Iraq to create a democracy. We did not have

a plan to do so. We lost control of southern Iraq even before we left

and we ended up with a sectarian Prime Minister in Iraq, who, the

first thing he did was start to attack and discriminate against

Sunnis. We did have democratic elections. I was there for the first

one. People turned out in their masses to vote. That was the first

time they were able to vote freely. Much good it has done them. The

results of the recent election means Nouri al-Maliki has not got a

majority. There is a group of people all with particular points of view

and he must try and pull them together as he did before. He has

alienated the Sunnis, that is true. They felt they were completely left

out of planning for the new Iraq. It varies from wherever you live. Some

areas get 24 hours electricity, some areas only get four hours a day. I

understand that. John McTernan, I would suggest to you, this is not

just an Iraqi problem, it is a regional problem. The whole of the

region from Beirut, from Lebanon, through to the Gulf states opposite

Iran, are basically in the grip of a Sunni Shia sectarian war? That is

what is going on in that part of the world. And in these circumstances,

the West is unlikely to be more than a spectator? I think it is right

that it is a regional conflict and it is right to see Iran in the hand

of destabilisation in the region. It is wrong that you have to have a

sectarian fight between Sunnis and Shia 's. It does not happen in the

Kurdish region, it did not happen in Baghdad initially after the

liberation. We know how to deal with ISIS. It is what we did when we were

there. Using special forces work, using intelligence worked.

Interrupting the line of supply for the car bombers worked. The tragedy

is, the cuts the coalition have made the British Army mean we do not have

a deployable force any more. There is no political appetite to deploy

it either. The British people will not stand for a further deployment

into the Middle East? I'm not clear about that at all. British people

believe in democracy at have no options is terrible. Richard

Ottaway, I wonder whether ISIS will go into Baghdad because Baghdad will

be heavily defended and the Shia militia have been mobilised. It may

suit their purpose is to control the western part of Iraq, where the

border with Syria is now porous and they have the caliphate? I think

they would like to go into Baghdad but they think it is a step too far.

I think they will probably sit back now and as you alluded to, I think

we'll see a regional setup here, the Kurds to the north-east, ISIS on the

Syrian border and to the west and the shears to the south. We will

have to leave it there. I thank all three of you for that discussion --

the sheers to the south. We will cover this on the sunbaked politics

as well on BBC One this Sunday. -- we will cover this on the Sunday

Politics as well. We asked what David and

Samantha Cameron were doing when they were spotted on

a night out in central London. Was it a) Seeing the play

Handbagged? b) Hanging out with celebs

at the Chiltern Firehouse? c) Enjoying some peri

peri chicken at Nandos? d) Partying in the notorious Soho

nightclub The Box? So, Laura,

what's the correct answer? It is the Chiltern Firehouse. Had he

been? I have not been, I'm told there is a six month waiting list.

Can you get me in? I will see what I can do.

Coming up in a moment it's our regular look at what's been

For now it's time to say goodbye to Laura Pitel.

So for the next half an hour we're going to be focussing on Europe.

We'll be discussing who'll be the next president of the

EU Commission, looking at some of the new parties in the European

Parliament, and asking whether the EU is right to have its own anthem.

First though here's our guide to the latest from Europe,

You wait for a taxi and then all turn up at once. European cities

were gridlocked as cab drivers blocked streets were testing against

an app which they say will push them off the board.

The tax affairs of Star Bucks will be investigated to see if they are

not paying their share. It was three men and a powerful

woman in a boat in Sweden. David Cameron went to meet the Swedish and

Dutch prime ministers and German Chancellor Angela Merkel. They rowed

and then row. The PM's confidence seems to have sunk after the

discussions. We're here to discuss the policies which the commission

should take over the next five years. That is what the discussions

have about, not people. Meanwhile, Mr Junco was in a bunker and looking

decidedly fed up with us Brits. -- Claude Junco.

And with us for the next 30 minutes I've been

joined by two newly elected MEPs - UKIP's Margot Parker and Clare Moody

from Labour - as well as the leader of the Conservative MEPs in the

Let me start with the Juncker problem, if I can call it that. The

main political groups have said there will be an institutional

crisis if Mr Juncker is not nominated as the European Commission

president. It is clear there are a number of people who are concerned

about Juncker. He is yesterday's man. Some people look at him as

business as usual, the Sepp Blatter of European politics. I understand

that but the main groupings on the left and the right have said there

will be a crisis if he is not nominated. That is not true. What

will happen is the groups will discuss it, Parliament will try and

push for Juncker, because they want this process which is based on the

loose interpretation of the Lisbon Treaty. There are heads of

government to have said clearly that Juncker was with Merkel and others

the other day and they have said they want a candidate for reform. It

is what most people have voted for and it is clear that Juncker does

not represent reform. But Angela Merkel is going for him. Can

anything stop him? Who would you like? We do not really care. They

are all the same. Who would you like? One thing we are clear about

is we are waiting to see what the commission will propose in terms of

the new president, the Council of ministers. It is the Council of

ministers. We are not in support of Juncker. It is as appointing the

Cameron has played this so badly in terms of Britain's influence. What

way has he played it badly? Said publicly. The way he initiated it.

The battle plan that was drawn and subsequently, it seems he has done

everything to alienate his allies across Europe. If you do not want

somebody, it hopes to have an alternative that other people do

want. Who would you have? There are other candidates who are committed

to reform. A number of candidates. There is Enda Kenny out there. He

has indicated he does not want it. Maybe it is about time we had a

female candidate. Who would that be? What is important is we are not

squabbling about who it is, we want real reform on the ground. That is

the most important thing. So who would your candidate be to deliver

real reform? I want to see which other alternatives are proposed. So

who? He is waiting to see who comes up. It is probably Mrs Gillick --

Mrs Kinnock, isn't it? You mean the Danish Prime Minister. It is a nice

job, well, not really, but it does not answer my question. Lets see

what comes out of this process. You are the head of this conservative

reformist group which is quite a big group now. We are the largest group.

I will come onto some of your allies in a minute. But what are you

advising the Minister? The Prime Minister is dealing with this at

head of government level. This is an institutional stand-off between a

misreading of the Lisbon Treaty where people in the Parliament

consider that they should propose, whereas Cameron has been clear it

should be heads of government who consider who it should be. You are

no socialist group, is to supporting Mr Juncker? I am speaking on behalf

of the Labour Party. But the group you are part of our supporting

Juncker. It is not about the institutional setup. What is the

political reason? He is an architect of what has been imposed across the

European Union. His political background is very different from

ours. What part did he play in austerity? Reader macro his role in

the commission. We are absolutely wanting to see someone who would

implement policies for jobs and growth. I cannot give you names and

candidates because it is the Council of Ministers. But you are allowed to

have a view. In deed! I do not have a name. You do not have a view, you

do not have of view and you do not care? There all the same, they all

dance around the same table. We want a candidate committed to reform. But

you will not tell me who it is so we will move on.

The European elections three weeks ago saw big gains for protest

parties and fringe groups on both the political left and right.

Partly a consequence of the deep - and for some countries -

As a result, Brussels will look and feel very different

as many new, younger faces try and influence how Europe is governed.

Jo has been to Brussels to meet some of them,

It seems getting elected as an MEP is just the beginning of the party

struggles to form power bases in the European Parliament. Building

political alliances with like-minded people is the key to winning votes.

But it is a tricky business as this week's negotiations in Brussels have

shown. Many of the winners in these elections were from new protest

parties, challenging the status quo. One of them, the German anti-Europe

party, opponents of Miss Merkel, are clear who they want to sit with. We

want to sit with people who think alike like the British

Conservatives. In our own party programme for the European

elections, we have made references to David Cameron's programme. There

are a lot of similarities. Yesterday, there was good news for

this party. Deals are being done all the time here in the European

Parliament. In this meeting room behind me, the European

Conservatives and reformist group, of which David Cameron's

Conservatives are part, have decided formally to admit a new group of

German MEPs. But making new political acquaintances risks

alienating more important friends. The reason why David Cameron warned

his own MEPs to vote against admitting the German Chancellor's

arch rivals into their ranks because Angela would be furious. It was not

enough, the new chair of the group, Tory MEP Syed Kamall put on a brave

face. David Cameron has made his these absolutely clear about the

AFD. He asked me to pass that view on. Now was not the time to look

back, it is time to look forward. Questions were also asked about why

the Conservatives are sitting with the Danish People's party and the

True Finns, whose views on immigration and Islam are

unacceptable, according to Labour. Nigel Farage was on an offensive

with the Italian media. He needs an Italian party on board to form a

parliamentary group. Without it, there will no access to funding and

committee posts. Nigel Farage is the one who has been flirting with us

more than others. How has he been flirting with you? Not with me

personally, but with my party. He has been talking to us. He probably

sees a different vision of Europe. Last night, they were celebrating

after an online referendum of 5-star Movement's supporters found a

majority favoured an alliance with Europe. Federalism versus euro

scepticism is not the only fault line. Pro-and anti-austerity parties

are also set to do battle. A new Greek far left party came first in

the elections and wants an end to the austerity measures of the past

few years. It is a catastrophe for the whole of Europe. It is

increasing explosion of inequalities and if it doesn't work, it creates a

lot of pain. The other goal is to stop the rise of far right parties

like the Front nationality. The party came first in the poll in

France but has not yet found enough partners for its new European

Alliance for freedom group. Sources say they are still one country

short. You had some good news some good

news last night. You need seven countries. How far short you? I

cannot answer that. They are all negotiating. We are working at it.

We are not going to the beach. What other possible candidates would you

like to see? What are your targets? Our targets really are the

negotiations are completely wide open at the moment. I cannot give

you those. You cannot give me one political party you may be looking

at. Do you still rule out the French National Front? They are really

unfortunate. They have very far right views. They do not sit well

with UKIP. We do not and will not sit with them. If you get a

grouping, what benefit will you get from that? Will you get more money?

We have the ability to have more staff. We have more research, more

publications, more airtime. You can get your message out much more

easily. When I saw Nigel Farage in Brussels earlier this week he said

the Conservatives are really gaining up to stop this. They would try to

pick off as many as they could. That is what they do, it is what we

expect. It is what happens. It is what they do, it is what we

politics. We want to impart on the largest growing group. We are the

third largest group. You have admitted the German AFD, which is a

rather moderate Eurosceptic group in Germany. The Conservative leadership

in London told you not to. David Cameron setup the group. It is now

the growing group. He did not want AFD. He asked me as leader of the

Conservatives to request MEPs not to vote for them. Because we are the

fastest-growing group, we are 19 out of 63 MEPs from 13 countries. We do

not have the majority. Some of the new MEPs voted for AFD. We do not

know that. It was a majority of one. Do you regret you voted to have AFD

joined a group? I am the leader of the group and I have to look

forward. We must make sure we must make sure we're looking forward to

the future and we are committed to reform. AFD have said they are

committed to reform. Within the European Parliament, we are going to

be the only group committed to reform in the European group. We are

going to be at the forefront. Let's have a look at who is part of this

consensus. Let's look at the Danish People's party. I you happy with

them? A spokesman once like all -- likened the Muslim headscarf to the

swastika. I had a conversation with them and asked them about the

allegations. They said they had moved on and would move towards the

future for a mainstream party. Let's face it. These very same people you

through accusations that are the same people who voted for me. Look

at me, Andrew! The first Muslim leader of any digital group in the

Muslim Parliament. How can you tell me which people voted for you? I

know the results of the ballot. It is quite clear who voted for me.

Morton is the leader of the party. He was actually convicted for

publishing material of a link between a multiethnic society and

rape, violence and forced marriages. I sat down with him and had a

conversation. He said, I was young, foolish, I have moved on. I want to

grow up. Are you happy to have these people as friends? As a party

committed to reform and committed to building a new Europe for 2015, not

looking back to the 1950s, it is exciting we can help people move

into the mainstream of policy. -- politics. It is claimed that is lamp

reveres paedophilia. It is not claimed that. -- Islam. I read the

blog and the blog said quite clearly, it was a freedom of speech

issue. They did not like being in the centre-right group because they

thought it was fabulous. -- Federalist. Why don't you, that

group? Sky we think it is important to have influence at European Union

level. -- we think. We are now the only UK party with a part of the

mainstream politics -- which is part of mainstream politics in the

European Union. We are after getting reform, bringing about the gross

Commissioner. It is about getting investment kick started properly.

Unless you believe in federalism, which I don't think you do, as he

probably would not be allowed to by Mr Miller band at the moment, you

will belong to a group you do not actually agree with. There are more

things we do agree with our colleagues across the European Union

than things we disagree with. This issue of federalism would be

something that is determined at the council of ministers, determined

across 28 countries. I do not believe across those 28 countries

there is an appetite to suddenly federalise, roller head to

federalism. That is the policy of Mr shorts and he is your leader.

Absolutely. -- Schulz. Which you have voted for him? We remained

neutral. It is an awful beauty parade. You're talking about

influence. We do not have any. You ask officially in the same pool for

candidates. -- you are fishing in the same pool for candidates. I

reject it. Unlike the Danish People's party. They are on a

political journey and they are committed to reform. I am glad you

are excited. I hope you will be one day.

You probably know what the flag of the EU looks like - 12 yellow

But did you know the European Union also has its own official anthem?

Or that there's a special EU Day every May?

Here's Adam with the latest of our A to Z guides to Europe.

The gift shop at the European Parliament. Proof you can put the EU

flag on just about anything. It is a serious business for this man, he is

head of protocol in Parliament. That means flax. We have two kinds of

flags. For the member states, we have better quality ones. They are

made of silk. The common flag is in polyester. That is a less noble

material. The rules say the European flag should be flown in every

meeting room and at every event and flowing correctly. It has a sense in

the way that the styles are always looking, the hat right up and the

feet, two feet open. Imagine it looked like this or this. These are

some of the rejects from the competition to design the flag held

in the 50s. It was originally the council of Europe, which oversees

the Court of Human Rights. In 1985 a bit of global branding was required.

In the present world, it is important. As national states, we

are really too small compared with these big countries like India or

China or let's say Brazil. It is instantly recognisable but you can

hum it. Unlike the EU official anthem, Owed To Joy by Beethoven. He

revealed all about it. It is the scale and the harmony. It is very

simple. More simple you cannot. Beethoven was a genius because of

that. A simplicity founded music of all cultures and all ages. It is

completely universal. More universal, more federal, more

European. More for everybody cannot find. Who knows the other emblems?

United in diversity of Europe 's official day, maybe ninth, if you

have your Euro branded calendar to hand. Then there is the symbol for

the Euro which is chosen because it looks like the Greek letter,

Epsilon. The two lines in the middle are meant to represent stability and

reliability. How is that going? Adam Fleming reporting. Does Europe

need its own anthem? Absolutely not. We are 28 member states. I do not

really need to ask you that. I will bring my own Union Jack and carry it

at all times. By Maggie do you have it on you? -- do you have it on you?

It is a beautiful piece of music. Beethoven. You are happy with the

national anthem? Not the national anthem, the European... What did you

do to celebrate the day? It was made a seventh, the run-up to the

European elections. I was undoubtedly on doorsteps. I was

knocking on doors, campaigning for further European form. You must have

celebrated EU day. I knocked on doors and lots of people told me all

the ills of the EU. I separated by telling what people told me. I was

delighted they would vote for us. David Cameron talked about British

values, Angela Merkel talked about the European spirit. What is the

difference? Weird gree with an outward looking -- we agree with an

outward looking Europe. By tabloid talk about British values against

European spirit. -- we talk about. We believe in freedom and tolerance.

The Europeans do not? They aren't against a one size fits all Europe.

-- they are against. Stop arguing. Next to my guests. Goodbye. --

thanks to my guests. MUSIC: "The Yeah Yeah Yeah Song"

by the Flaming Lips # Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah

Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah MUSIC: "The Yeah Yeah Yeah Song"

by the Flaming Lips # Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah

Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah