Browse content similar to 06/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:00. | :00:40. | |
Theresa May delivers her big conference speech | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
So do we know any more about the woman herself | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
and the direction she wants to take the country in? | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
And do Conservatives at their conference think we will be | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
richer or poorer after we leave the European Union? | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
We talk to two former spin doctors about life | :00:57. | :01:04. | |
at the top in Downing Street and whether the era of spin is over. | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
And after Diane James sensationally quit as Ukip | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
leader after just 18 days, we speak to one of the contenders | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
putting themselves forward to replace her. | :01:16. | :01:26. | |
All that in the next hour, and with me for the whole | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
of the programme today Tony Blair's former press supremo | :01:32. | :01:33. | |
Alastair Campbell, who's just released the fifth volume | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
Thank you. Don't sound too enthusiastic! Oh, I am. | :01:36. | :01:47. | |
Now, Theresa May is splashed on almost all the front pages - | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
all except Alastair's old paper, The Daily Mirror. | :01:51. | :01:51. | |
The Telegraph headline is: "It's time to remember the good | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
The Mail says: "We're coming after you!", in reference | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
to Mrs May's message to tax-avoiding multinationals and energy giants. | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
The Guardian declares that May has consigned Cameron to history. | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
And The Times headline says: "May takes centre stage | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
Well, someone who knows all about staking out the centre | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
Do you agree that she now owns that territory? Know, and I don't think | :02:11. | :02:23. | |
she should be allowed to either. I think a lot of what she said and | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
done since she took office and stood on the steps of Downing Street is at | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
odds with the sentence she set out then. I think it has been a very odd | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
week. Seeing Amber Rudd, who I was campaigning with during the | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
referendum campaign, coming out with that stuff about making foreign | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
companies list foreign workers. Jeremy Hunt trying to suggest if we | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
get rid of a few foreign doctors and get a few more Brits in there... I | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
thought it was becoming borderline and even crossing at times, | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
xenophobic. We will talk about that a little later on. In general she is | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
sort of parking her tanks on the lawn that people might have said | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
Tony Blair occupied, because there's no one elsewhere at the moment. Ukip | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
on the other side are in disarray. She has plenty of room to manoeuvre. | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
And I think what she was doing, there were parts of it... I know you | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
have Allister Heath coming on from the Telegraph later, I read his | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
column and he was talking about how she's trying to get too far over to | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
the left on business, but I think in other parts of it, the whole feel of | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
the week has felt like a Ukip tribute band. She's doing both, yes, | :03:36. | :03:42. | |
trying to park a tank on Labour's lawn but also Ukip, which is | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
difficult. Jeremy Corbyn has drawn criticism because we haven't heard | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
anything from him all week. There has been no counter argument put | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
forward by Labour, do you agree? Yes. Should he be more visible? It's | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
not just about the leadership of the Labour Party. Back in the day when I | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
was a journalist there was this thing where you give each party a | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
week to go for it. I think that has changed. I think it changed a while | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
ago. I think it did, and the reality is that conservatives are yet again, | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
looking at the headlines, you see the advantage of you have most of | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
the press ready to beat your Drogba. The Guardian saying she took the | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
underground... they said as she is trying to stake out the centre | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
ground, it's what you then do in terms of policy. That is when it | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
will get difficult. I think a lot of Tories who have kept quiet this | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
week, I think there are quite a lot of Tories are very unhappy with the | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
way Brexit is played out. We will talk about that as well, but we're | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
looking at the response of Labour to what has happened. Nothing from | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, and MPs admitting she is, in terms of talk of fairness and | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
working people, the party of the workers, from a rhetoric stance... | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
You have to be careful. People can criticise new Labour and Tony Blair | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
all they want, but we set out a strategic course, new Labour, | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
modernisation, and we made sure the policy worked for that. I think with | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
Theresa May, she's pointing both ways at the moment. I've seen some | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
of the papers today say that we see what she stands for now, I'm still | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
not 100% sure what she stands for at all. Let's talk about Jeremy Corbyn. | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
What is your view of him and now, now he is back in power and the | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
leader again? He's not in power, he is leader of the Labour Party. Yes, | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
leader of the Labour Party. Is your objection to him one based on policy | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
or competence? I've always believed the policies and politics the Labour | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
Party has to pursue, to win power, which is a legitimate and necessary | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
aim, that you've always got to be in touch with the people who don't live | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
inside the political bubble, who do live in the centre ground. I worry | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
that an policy and on politics, and by that I mean this whole kind of... | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
The idea of turning the Labour Party within, wing against swing. But | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
these are your voters. He Griezmann ship. I know, but a lot of them | :06:19. | :06:26. | |
didn't vote for us. But there are people who are now fairly senior, in | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
terms of the direction of the Labour Party, who have been hostile. I | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
think an policy there are fundamental disagreements but I | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
think he's saying a lot of the right things. You think is a competence | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
issue? No. At the moment... I saw Kerry MacArthur give an interview | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
and she said I want to hear stuff you can't just sit on a T-shirt. The | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
same criticism of Theresa May, it's about policy. You all about slogan | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
politics as well. The conference should have been the time to set it | :07:01. | :07:08. | |
up. Owen Smith says he thinks Labour should be a centre-left party. Do | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
you agree with that? Yes. If you like the policies of Jeremy Corbyn, | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
surely you can work on the politics or competence and he could be a | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
future Prime Minister? He could, but the point I'm making to you is you | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
can't just... What I felt about the Labour Party conference, it felt | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
almost like it was operating inside its own bubble. It's about the | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
public in the end. Theresa May I don't think has put forward the | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
policy platform, and I think one she takes us down this Brexit path I | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
think she has all sorts of obstacles. For Labour, the Labour | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
Party, the Labour leadership seems to be defining itself as much | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
against labour as was, as the government doing all sorts of | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
things. Was Owen Smith the wrong candidate to go up against Jeremy | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
Corbyn? Give me an alternative. There were plenty of people to | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
choose from. But they didn't get nominations, you have to deal with | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
what you have. He lost an Jeremy won and now the Labour Party and PLP | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
have to make a decision about how they work with him, to try and take | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
us forward, at a time when people sense of vacuum and are worried | :08:18. | :08:19. | |
about what this government are doing. | :08:20. | :08:21. | |
The question for today is what has Jeremy Corbyn | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
Alastair Campbell says he knows the answer but will have to wait until | :08:26. | :08:37. | |
the end of the show to give it to us. | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
Conference season is a tough time for politicians, | :08:41. | :08:42. | |
their phalanxes of advisors and of course us political hacks - | :08:43. | :08:44. | |
the endless rounds of talks, press appearances, late nights | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
and, of course, cheap wine and terrible fried finger food. | :08:48. | :08:49. | |
And though everyone else might have a bit of a conference | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
hang over, and there's still the SNP's to go, | :08:55. | :08:56. | |
Theresa May and her kitchen cabinet haven't been indulging... | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
Instead they've been hard at work clearing out the Conservative policy | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
cupboards, and over the conference season they've detoxed the previous | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
administrations big ideas and introduced their | :09:07. | :09:08. | |
The first thing the government announced was their plan to be | :09:09. | :09:18. | |
Brexit ready by next year - promising to trigger | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
They also announced they'd blitz existing EU law | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
with a 'Great Repeal Bill' - turning European legislation | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
into British law so it can be sieved out by government. | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
Theresa May vowed she'd keep the UK out of the European Court | :09:34. | :09:35. | |
of Justice and wouldn't hand over any control on immigration, | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
signalling the Government's priorities in any negotiation over | :09:40. | :09:41. | |
Home Secretary Amber Rudd picked up on the immigration theme, | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
She said she wants firms to list all their foreign employees | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
The Government was also keen to bulk up | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
it's fibre content - pledging ?3 billion | :10:01. | :10:02. | |
for a Home Building Fund, though not all of that is new money. | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
And of course, the Government has done it's best | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
to cater for fussy eaters in education - repeating it's mantra | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
to allow more selection of pupils with new grammar schools. | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
Although it's not a medical concept, the Government doesn't want | :10:16. | :10:17. | |
you to detox without medical supervision - Jeremy Hunt has | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
announced an additional 1500 doctor training places per year, and called | :10:22. | :10:23. | |
for less reliance on foreign staff in the NHS. | :10:24. | :10:31. | |
Chancellor Hammond has warned about overdoing it. He's Paul George | :10:32. | :10:40. | |
Osborne's promise to get rid of the deficit by 2020 down the sink. | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
We're joined now by the Conservative MP Kwasi Kwarteng. | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
Let's talk about the announcements on foreign workers, are you happy | :10:48. | :10:55. | |
with their approach and tone? You have to remember it is not as | :10:56. | :11:01. | |
radical as people are saying. Some elements of the media very excited | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
about it. Listing foreign workers is something that happens in the US. | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
The policy referred to non-EU migrants, not EU migrants. It's not | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
as controversial policy as... Are you happy with naming and shaming | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
companies who employ too many foreigners, making a distinction | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
between British-born workers and foreign workers? Are you comfortable | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
with it? I think there is not a problem with saying... It doesn't | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
cross the line? It was your own Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, who | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
said British jobs for British workers. It's so interesting now to | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
see people like Alastair, defenders of Gordon Brown, saying this is the | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
most extraordinary policy. I think it's totally legitimate in the light | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
of the Brexit vote, finding employment for people in Britain. He | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
coined the phrase, British jobs for British people. Ed Miliband went | :12:01. | :12:10. | |
even further. It is totally unfair to say with shock and horror that | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
this is patently xenophobic. If you get the next volume of my diaries... | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
I think you'll find I wasn't very happy about British jobs for British | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
people. Because I thought that was then... The thing about this debate | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
about immigration, and this does come through both in the last few | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
years... We recognise the growing political problem and struggle with | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
the solutions. I think once you locate the solutions in angry, | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
divisive rhetoric, as opposed to policy that might work, I think it | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
gets very... I you're right, there is a party platform at the party | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
conference, but also a legitimate look at the policy. You said | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
yourself both parties in government have failed to really address this | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
issue. We want to reduce the numbers and if you are going to reduce the | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
numbers are not serious about that, you have to look at interesting and | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
very tough policies. You do accept the numbers have to be reduced? | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
We'll do. Do they? A large a majority of the Conservative Party. | :13:16. | :13:23. | |
You talk about the policy solutions... Would those policies, | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
for instance having fewer foreign doctors, being self-sufficient with | :13:28. | :13:35. | |
British doctors, will that help or hinder our NHS? I think it can help | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
it. How? There will be tension between freedom of movement and | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
economic growth. If you wanted economic growth regardless of | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
freedom of movement, this country could have a population of 100 | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
million. But as a politician you can't responsibly accept that. You | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
have to have some sort of degree of control. What we have learned over | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
the last ten years, look at Europe, there are far white parties growing | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
in Europe because of this issue and is absolutely responsible, the right | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
thing for the government to do, to look at this issue and try and | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
restrict... -- far right parties. Is that the solution? Is it about the | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
number of foreign doctors, or doctors where ever they come from, | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
or is it a funding shortfall? I think both elements are important. | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
Funding is obviously important for the NHS, but also an issue in terms | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
of giving opportunities for people in Britain to contribute to British | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
society. There is no real social benefit, I think, to importing | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
hundreds of thousands of people every single year and displacing | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
people who are home-grown people. What is wrong with that, what is | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
xenophobic about that? What I said was xenophobic is day by day through | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
the conference week, that there was a clear and deliberate effort with | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
Amber Rudd and the Prime Minister herself to make this sort of theme | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
for the conference. Without bringing forward policy. I don't think this | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
foreign workers thing will happen, it was all part of the positioning. | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
I think with the health Jeremy Hunt has also awful lot on his plate and | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
he could have made the biggest use of it for as conference but he | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
focused on this narrow point. I was hospital a couple of years ago, I | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
came back from the Balkans and had dysentery. I tell you, if you pushed | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
out... Let me tell you. They are saying they want to develop | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
home-grown doctors. That's fine, they can do that anyway, it's a fact | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
they're trying to pit them against doctors who are already there. Camp | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
Nou so this is more about rhetoric -- can you say this is more about | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
rhetoric, I think there will be some attempt to bring about policies. | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
That's what governmentdo. I think getting, training new doctors is a | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
good thing to do, they could've done that anyway. Low skilled workers. | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
Theresa May said I know a lot of people don't like to admit this, | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
someone who finds themselves out of work what an low wages because of | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
low skilled immigration. Is that absolutely true? | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
There is an issue. But is it actually true? I speak to people who | :16:18. | :16:28. | |
are builders all the time and they will tell you, and you have probably | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
had the same conversations, they haven't had a weight increase in 15 | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
years. Part of the reason is we are importing low skilled people who are | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
doing those jobs, that's a fact. We wouldn't import them if they weren't | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
keeping wages down. Even Ed Miliband admitted this as a reality, so for | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
Labour to shy away and point the finger and say these are issues that | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
aren't actually going to solve... I think the and contempt of wages is a | :16:56. | :17:03. | |
real issue, minimum wage, living wage, these are designed to help the | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
people break the law. What we have to be careful about, which is why | :17:09. | :17:10. | |
others borrowed about the tone of the whole, is making process | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
emotions without really sitting at the reality about how big a problem | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
is. I do worry, particularly if you think about, the country was very | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
divided with the set vote, and the message from Theresa May is, it's | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
not divided all -- with the Brexit vote. It wasn't that clear, it was | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
very complicated. I think she should be doing more to unite, she's making | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
the same mistake David Cameron. He think that is to binary? She also | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
sees a greater role, that's it as one of the more interesting things | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
about her speech in terms of good government, people were surprised to | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
hear that from a Tory Prime Minister. Is that something you | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
would support? Of course, a referendum, we don't have often in | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
this country, there is a reason, they are binary, it's a yes or no | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
answer and you will get 52, 48, it could have gone the other way and | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
that's a difficult position for any government to be in but I think she | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
has the fantastic job in trying to project steady government, mature | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
government, she's a national figure. Her polling is strong on this. But | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
do you embrace this side of her, this state intervention, good | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
government? The plant she is try to make and has made effectively is | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
they were people who felt left out, we have two little the Brexit vote | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
and say, there are people for whom this economy isn't working, and she | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
says she will make an economy work for everyone. That means some more | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
government legislation looking at workers' rights, looking at things, | :18:53. | :19:00. | |
education... The conversations I have had it with you in the past, | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
you would not have supported that. I tend to be more on the free market | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
side of things, that we have to look at the proposals as they come. I | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
think the government has made a good start, she has admitted what a lot | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
of people on your side haven't acknowledged, but there is a | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
disconnect between the Metropolitan elite and the country. You and I are | :19:20. | :19:27. | |
members of it. The Tory party has been presenting itself as the party | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
of the working classes, we're putting up straw men here. The thing | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
about picketers, that you only patriotic if you follow this mission | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
that Theresa May sets out for what Britain is, is nonsense. I thought | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
she has done a good job of protecting herself at a national | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
leader. That's a different thing. I also signed up to abandoning the | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
deficit reduction plan or reaching a surplus? I am a deficit hawk but I | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
came into Parliament in 2010, and we said we would eliminate it in five | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
years and we missed all those targets. So you have converted on | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
that? Hammond has a moral realist approach, committee wants to reduce | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
the deficit but there is no point having targets you miss every year. | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
Like the immigration target. Or the NHS target. You have two stick to it | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
and that's what the Chancellor has recognised. | :20:27. | :20:28. | |
Now, Brexit has been the hot topic of this party conference season. | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
But what did the delegates at the Conservative conference think | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
the outlook for the UK economy will be in a post-Brexit Britain? | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
We sent our Adam out with his balls to ask them. | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
Will dissolving the UK's marriage with the EU leave the country | :20:43. | :20:44. | |
I think richer in the long-term, but there's a lot of challenges | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
I think there will be some people who are a little bit better off | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
A quick question, aren't you at the wrong conference? | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
I get a better welcome here, than I do at the Labour Party one. | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
Just having our own seat at the top table again. | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
I think we won't notice it this early on, but eventually | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
Because we haven't left yet, so we don't know yet. | :21:15. | :21:24. | |
Why do you think it will lead to us benig poorer? | :21:25. | :21:26. | |
I don't think we're going to negotiate the right deal. | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
If we get that fair immigration system, which is basically that | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
anyone either from Europe or outside of Europe coming to Britain with no | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
discrimination based on colour of passport, | :21:37. | :21:38. | |
it's going to make us richer, a better workforce. | :21:39. | :21:40. | |
Absolutely, I have no doubt about it. | :21:41. | :21:49. | |
I think in the long-term we''ill be richer, but there may be | :21:50. | :22:00. | |
Is the turbulence a price worth paying? | :22:01. | :22:02. | |
Andrea, you're going to love the question today. | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
Will Brexit leave us richer or poorer? | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
Oh, she's not denying it would leave us poorer. | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
Is that how we interpret that silence? | :22:14. | :22:15. | |
Owen, is Brexit going to leave us richer or poorer? | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
What do think Andrew Mitchell will vote? | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
I think Andrew Mitchell will vote richer... | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
We've seen the country before, we're old enough to remember it | :22:26. | :22:27. | |
We weren't very rich in the 1950s, were we? | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
We had a good life, even though we were children then. | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
I'd say probably slightly on the poorer side. | :22:36. | :22:37. | |
Because it will take as a bit of time to get back into it. | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
Is Britain going to be richer or poorer as a result of Brexit? | :22:44. | :22:52. | |
Don't you want to answer that question? | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
He's got time to do a selfie, but not time for the moodbox, sad! | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
There we go, which when will he go for? | :23:02. | :23:03. | |
I just think culturally it's going to be a big mistake, | :23:04. | :23:16. | |
to have left and make ourselves more isolated from the rest of the EU. | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
There we go, the last moodbox at the Tory conference and it's | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
a whopping majority that thinks Britain will be | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
richer as a result of Brexit. | :23:25. | :23:26. | |
A clear majority, you agree with them? Completely. I was just reading | :23:27. | :23:47. | |
a guy for coming on the show, the head of the German industrial... He | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
said that within three to five years, Britain will be richer, doing | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
better than the rest of Europe. That's a German businessman! But, | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
beyond that, do you think that's true or will it take longer? I think | :24:04. | :24:10. | |
the economy can adjust quickly, we will have different trading patterns | :24:11. | :24:12. | |
and a relationship with the EU, no one is saying we can't draw up... | :24:13. | :24:20. | |
Sure. But broadly, we will have more control, more flexible economy... | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
And that will make us richer in the long term. You have mentioned him, | :24:25. | :24:32. | |
but there are big employers, Nissan, Jaguar, risks to jobs. Are they | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
wrong? They are producers, they make things in this country and have a | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
vested interest in the status quo, absolutely. I would expect them at | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
the beginning of negotiations to set out their stall and say these are | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
the dangers. They expect access to the single market. But we're talking | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
about membership to the single market, Theresa May has said we | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
can't have it, you can still have access... The thing is we don't | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
know. I'd also, I think having triggered said she's going to | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
trigger Article 50, that is when the tough stuff is going to start. Is | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
this you doing Project Fear again, warning about the economy taking a | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
downturn? It's about warning what I think is going to happen, the | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
European Union will see us now... It's not a divorce commits a | :25:25. | :25:26. | |
resignation, we have decided to leave. Is it a threat from them? It | :25:27. | :25:34. | |
matters much worse than it does to them. We are about a six of the | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
whole economy of them. There is no point in them having a | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
retaliatory... It doesn't have to be forced to take years and years to | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
get the trade deals we need. I wasn't in favour of the euro, I was | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
of the EU. Tony Blair. He told us it wouldn't be a disaster if we didn't | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
join. Philip Hammond, the Chancellor, repeated the Treasury | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
forecast that was done during the referendum campaign of a 4% hit | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
overtime to GDP. He repeated it again this week. Is he right? I | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
don't believe these scare stories. The Chancellor is scaring people? I | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
don't know what his particular position was. We had a lot of data | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
from the Treasury, the punishment budget, that had a Treasury thing... | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
And that hasn't happened? It was completely. Wrong. What Philip | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
Hammond was doing, I find it incredible that I was looking at him | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
and thinking, seems to be a voice of almost reason... He is the | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
Chancellor, looking at the state of the whole time. And the idea... The | :26:52. | :26:59. | |
trouble is, we have a media which has a sense of everything is going | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
to be wonderful, they want to be proven right so they pick on every | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
bit of data... So does your side. My point is, the big, difficult stuff, | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
is yet to come. It's going to come when these companies to make their | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
hard-headed decisions and the idea that they are all going to say, | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
that's fine would have access to the single market, don't have to worry | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
about freedom of movement... We're going to face the got choices. You | :27:28. | :27:35. | |
talked about Philip Hammond being the voice of sanity, but the same | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
voices were warning of apocalyptic economic downturn, that was wrong, | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
wasn't it? I don't accept that, it hasn't even begun. These deposits it | :27:45. | :27:52. | |
would be a recession in 2016. Thankfully that hasn't happened. We | :27:53. | :28:00. | |
are still in 2016. I don't... I don't think there will be a | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
recession. Cameron and Osborne said it. I said, there still believe, | :28:06. | :28:12. | |
that leaving the European Union will damage as politically and economic | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
Lee and culturally. And you would be wrong. Can we agree that we won't | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
really know until Article 50 is triggered in March and then we might | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
have a clearer idea. It'll take years. So it will take years to take | :28:26. | :28:33. | |
the trade deal? Who don't even know what skin to happen in five, ten, 40 | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
years. -- that's going to happen. The longer time goes on, a lot of | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
your doom mongering will be proved wrong. And the newspapers will say | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
that Brexit, blaming Britain is the going strong. Used to work in the | :28:50. | :28:57. | |
newspapers! I am out of it, thank God! | :28:58. | :29:06. | |
Ukip's immigration spokesman who announced he would be running for | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
the leadership of the party, there will be a contest, has this morning | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
collapsed in the European Parliament in Strasbourg. The ten out our | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
political correspondent. Tell us what's gone on. This is a developing | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
story, we note the first reports came in half an hour ago that | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
Stephen will first left about in the European Parliament in Strasbourg, | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
currently sitting, he collapsed. We have confirmation from a Ukip | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
spokesperson that he was taken ill suddenly in Strasbourg and has been | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
taken to hospital for tests. We haven't got any more information | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
about the severity of this incident, no further update on his health but | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
as you might imagine, other MEPs and Ukip colleagues are putting their | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
support for him. Their rivals in that leadership contest I wish him | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
the best for his recovery. He was doing the media rounds yesterday | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
when he announced he would be a candidate in this leadership race, | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
saying he was the first went put his name forward now that the contest | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
will be rerun following the unexpected resignation of Diane | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
James, now this latest element that he has been taken ill, very scant | :30:22. | :30:23. | |
details at the moment. I suppose the leadership contest at | :30:24. | :30:36. | |
the moment will be put on hold old until we know about Steven Woolfe's | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
position? The only other candidate so far to declare he will be | :30:42. | :30:51. | |
standing is Raheem Cassandra. He said out of respect for Steven | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
Woolfe at this stage you won't continue with media appearances | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
until the situation becomes clearer. The board across Ukip, there seems | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
to be broad support for Steven Woolfe, who is a very well-known | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
character in Ukip, is a man who has been their immigration spokesman and | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
an MP in Parliament. People wishing him the best and hoping he gets | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
well, but this seems like it will bring about a pause in campaigning. | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
Thank you for updating us. We were hoping to speak to Raheem Kassam, | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
who was also going to stand for the leadership, but no more media | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
appearances at the moment as it is not appropriate, bearing in mind | :31:38. | :31:38. | |
Steven Woolfe's position. Now, as well as attacking | :31:39. | :31:40. | |
the "socialist left" in her speech, Theresa May also rejected | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
the ideology of the Unsurprisingly, it hasn't gone down | :31:44. | :31:44. | |
too well with everyone on the right. Let's have a listen | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
to what she had to say. It's time to remember the good | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
that government can do. Time for a new approach that says | :31:52. | :31:53. | |
while government doesn't have all the answers, | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
government can and should be That the state exists to provide | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
what individual people, communities and markets cannot, | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
and that we should employ the power of government | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
for the good of the people. Time to reject the ideological | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
templates provided by the socialist left and the libertarian right, | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
and to embrace a new centre ground in which government | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
steps up and not back, Joining us now is the Deputy Editor | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
of the Daily Telegraph, Proud libertarian I would say. Your | :32:24. | :32:40. | |
view has been rejected by Theresa May. Yes, that's the point I made in | :32:41. | :32:48. | |
the piece today. I think for years the Conservative Party has been | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
moving away from the ideas of Thatcherism and Reagan. What she did | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
yesterday, I think, was quite important. It was an official | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
rejection of that world view. It's building on what happened in the | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
past, building on what happened under that coalition, but more | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
comprehensive and more explicit than anything I've ever heard before from | :33:12. | :33:18. | |
a Tory leader. In many ways... A worldview Lord Heseltine would have | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
embraced. It's about an industrial policy, about the state doing things | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
I'm trying... That's because she feels she is right about it, more in | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
tune with public sentiment, that actually people like you who are | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
supportive of bankers and big business, rightly or wrongly, global | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
elites, which motivated many people to vote for Brexit are completely | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
out of fashion and people feel have done a lot of harm? Like Brexit, of | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
course. But that's the conundrum, isn't it? It is a conundrum, yes. | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
And a lot of people think that. But we shouldn't forget the biggest | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
group of Brexit voters were Tory voters, something like 60% of Tory | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
voters voted for Brexit. Of course a lot of Labour voters did and Ukip | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
voters and former Labour voters, but it's wrong to see Brexit purely as a | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
populist rejection of globalisation. It's not that. Some aspects were | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
that but some weren't. People like myself, free marketeers, rejected it | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
for completely different reasons. As deregulation not failed in the eyes | :34:28. | :34:36. | |
of many people. I disagree with that. There has been a massive | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
productivity problem, stagnant wages, I think the answers are not | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
state intervention, there are about finding market solutions to these | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
problems, finding conservative solutions to these problems. The | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
sort of solutions that shall all Reagan would have found. It does | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
show because the ideas I like on the way, I hope it won't last. Are you | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
happy Allister Heath is out on a limb, isolated on mainstream | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
politics and the Tories, the Conservatives are occupying good | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
government, state intervention, all the things Labour leaders have long | :35:13. | :35:19. | |
since loved? I think you are slightly overdoing the doom and | :35:20. | :35:21. | |
gloom from your side of the argument. I think what you saw | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
yesterday was Theresa May feeling under competing pressure. Her speech | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
reflected the same backdrop as Jeremy Corbyn's. Essentially saying | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
the public feel that the crash, those who caused the crash have kind | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
of got away with it. Don't you think that's true? I do think that's true, | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
I think that's what fuels a lot of the anti-politics, anti-government, | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
anti-business feeling. I think where she has to be very careful is where | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
she ends up... Once you are the Prime Minister, you can't sort of be | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
all things to all men and women repeatedly. Yesterday a little bit | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
for Labour voters, a little bit for Ukip voters... I don't think she's | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
as committed. Does that reassure you? I am a very optimistic person! | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
One of the key points to me is this, we are going to have Brexit. I'm | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
very happy we will have Brexit. I think Theresa May will try to | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
negotiate the best settlement. So the opportunities of Brexit to be | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
realised, you need a very competitive economy, free market | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
reform and attract capital. That is key. The Prime Minister and | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
government needs to remember that. Bashing business all but I'm calling | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
for greater state intervention and same businessmen created all of | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
this... It was a more popular speech I expected. On the conundrum I was | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
speaking about, isn't that the problem? Who wanted to remain said | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
there are two types of Brexit, people like you who believe in more | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
globalisation, deregulation and the power of the free market, and many | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
people who voted for the opposite but still for Brexit. How will she | :37:05. | :37:12. | |
be able to marry those? The remains I'd also had people who love the EU. | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
Referendum is about coalitions, you had two coalitions. Of course it is | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
quite difficult to reconcile those two, but what she needs to do is | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
create an economic success story. She needs growth, jobs, investment, | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
rising wages. If you start to achieve these kinds of things and a | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
more democratic and reject certain aspects of the old elite rule, I | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
think you can make some leeway and start to grow your share of the | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
vote. I think she could get over 40% of the vote, in theory at least, | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
with those policies. I don't think she needs to engage in a wholesale | :37:48. | :37:55. | |
rejection of Thatcherism. Labour has to be careful about bashing bankers | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
and business, that was Ed Miliband's problem before Jeremy Corbyn, being | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
seen as the anti-business party. You do have to tread a fine line if | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
you're going to blame the people responsible for the crash? The worst | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
thing for recent years for me in politics is the Conservatives | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
managed to pin the causes of the economic crash on Labour and labour | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
ventilated that attack rather than challenged it. I think this | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
discussion shows the difficulties she has, in terms of where she will | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
position herself strategically and politically going forward. I don't | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
think she has rejected a fairly right-wing approach to the economy. | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
I think she's talking the talk of the centre ground, but we will see | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
what sort of policies come forward. You will have to wait and see. Thank | :38:42. | :38:48. | |
you. Alastair, this one, joined us today to launch the next instalment | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
about the final one of his diaries, following his departure from Downing | :38:54. | :38:55. | |
Street as Tony Blair's director of communications. | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
Yet his is not the only book written by a former 'Spin Doctor' to hit | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
Craig Oliver became David Cameron's press man in 2011 and has | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
just published his book 'Unleashing Demons: | :39:07. | :39:07. | |
Before we chat to the two of them, let's look back | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
# Now what you going to do when you're caught | :39:12. | :39:21. | |
# And who's going to tell 'em that you won't when you probably will? | :39:22. | :39:33. | |
# Who's the only man can make you look like you're nearly | :39:34. | :39:44. | |
# Somebody better get me a spin doctor. | :39:45. | :39:52. | |
# Somebody won't you call me a spin doctor. | :39:53. | :40:03. | |
# Napoleon wasn't short, he was only of diminished size. | :40:04. | :40:17. | |
# The Krays loved their Mother and a politician never lies. | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
# If perception leaves a nasty stain he can make you white again. | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
# He's a master of illusion turning dirty water into wine. | :40:30. | :40:31. | |
# Somebody better get me a spin doctor. | :40:32. | :40:41. | |
# Somebody won't you call me a spin doctor. | :40:42. | :40:50. | |
# I know when I'm wrong that he'll make it right. | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
# My image is short, don't wanna drown in this sleaze. | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
And that man you saw there, following David Cameron around | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
and leaving Downing Street, joins us now in the studio. | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
Welcome. Hello. In strategy terms, do you stand by everything you did | :41:11. | :41:19. | |
during the referendum campaign? Not at all, we made some mistakes and | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
the book is very clear about that. Some serious mistakes and we need to | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
take responsibility for them. You made bloodcurdling predictions in | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
what would happen in the immediate aftermath of what would happen in | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
the result of a vote to leave, a recession, drop in house prices, | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
they were mistakes? I don't accept we said immediately afterwards, we | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
said when we left it the EU. We are still members of the EU on the same | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
terms as the 23rd of June. You think it could still happen? I think there | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
could be problems for the economy going forward. There is an industry | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
at the moment saying everything is fine with the economy at the moment. | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
We have seen the currency drop dramatically, growth forecasts for | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
next year downgraded dramatically. The Chancellor of the Exchequer | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
saying he's going to reset fiscal policy, which sounds like more | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
borrowing. So decided that the economy is all fine I think is a | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
little far-fetched. You are still predicting Project Fear, as was | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
called... I'm not. It is. I'm simply saying. You're saying these things | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
could still happen in March when we invoke Article 50. I'm saying it's | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
hard to find a respected economist who don't think it's going to be a | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
bumpy economy here for the next three years. You were involved in | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
the campaign, would you do things differently? Less of it will be a | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
nightmare if we leave Basra might a campaign needs three things. A sense | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
of where you are going to go forward, you need to attack your | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
opponents. I felt there should have been more attacking of the opponents | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
and Boris Johnson got away with murder in that campaign and still | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
is, to be frank. This off to Turkey to say we now support Turkey joining | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
the EU... I'm afraid I agree with Craig, I'm not at all complacent | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
about what is going to happen to Britain and the British economy once | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
this economy is seen through. You failed and we have yet to see the | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
result. In terms of attacking opponents, you were prepping Angela | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
Eagle ahead of the debate with Boris Johnson and Amber Rudd attacked | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
Boris Johnson but it didn't work? The vote was lost. You don't know | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
the impact... That style didn't work in the end. The style both of you | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
seemed to back in that campaign. You need two things. It made people had | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
in their view against being told by the establishment. I'm totally | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
confused by the questioning. On one hand you said we didn't attack and | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
another you said we did. I think I can have my cake and eat it. People | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
said they didn't want to trust experts, they didn't want to be told | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
what to do by the elite. I think that was one of the worst parts of | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
the campaign, the idea that people who know what they're talked about | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
-- talking about should be derided and ignored... It's absurd. You | :44:06. | :44:12. | |
lost. Exactly. You reveal it in the book David Cameron refused a | :44:13. | :44:19. | |
conversation by the general director of the BBC, and also put pressure on | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
the Corporation over its coverage of the referendum. Is that an abuse of | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
power? Absolutely not. Tony Hall, the director-general of the BBC, | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
asked for a conversation with the Prime Minister about charter | :44:34. | :44:35. | |
renewal. Perfectly legitimate for him to do that. The BBC is an | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
important organisation in the country and legitimate for him to | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
make his point. It is legitimate for a Prime Minister to say he is | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
concerned about some aspects of BBC coverage, and by the way, he was | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
absolutely right. Too often BBC coverage, particularly regarding | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
economics, mistook balance for impartiality. And put pressure on | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
the BBC to address that? It was a concern, he the economics editor of | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
the BBC... Business opinion in this country was split, it was, and that | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
he was also making clear that when a few economists came on and made one | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
point, that somehow there was an equivalence there. That was a | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
problem on an issue the BBC struggled with. And they admitted | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
it. It was about the timing. Was it right to link that to conversation | :45:28. | :45:29. | |
about charter renewal? Tony Hall, the director-general of | :45:30. | :45:43. | |
the BBC, asked for and received a conversation with the PM in order to | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
lobby him about the charter. That is perfectly legitimate. And you used | :45:47. | :45:53. | |
that as an opportunity to talk about concerns he had about coverage. | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
People will think that and say that was undue leverage... Should have | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
waited and had another meeting and of. This is nonsense. The idea you | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
aren't allowed to race concerned, it's what happens in discussion. I | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
didn't say that particular content, it's about linking it to charter | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
renewal. He asked for the conversation. He then moved on to | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
other subject. I think it is utter nonsense to say they were linked to | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
charter renewal. By the way the BBC got an amazing deal. 11 years, with | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
inflation busting terms. The idea that they were put under the | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
screw... Let's just stick to what was seen by some as potential abuse | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
of power. There was a chap you employed in 2014 who was | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
investigating the Lamela's expenses using her links to the Levenson | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
enquiry, is that fair? Totally unfair. I am surprised you're | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
bringing that up. The Today programme had to issue a statement | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
making clear that if anybody repeated that libel, it would be | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
wrong, and within minutes of that interview, I did not put any undue | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
pressure on the Daily Telegraph and it is wrong with you to suggest I | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
did. So you completely and utterly say that none of that was linked to | :47:16. | :47:23. | |
either charter renewal of the BBC all the Levenson enquiry's coverage? | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
Of course, what is being suggested is that somehow I was suggesting | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
that if they didn't investigate Maria Miller, we would have an | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
influence on an independent judge, not true in any way. I have been | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
very clear about that. Nobody has come back after I cleared that up | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
and I am slightly surprised you would raise that now. Well, I have | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
raised it in your surprise. Let's talk about the inner of spin. It | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
seems that the reason may is trying to give the impression that Spain is | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
over, the sort of spin that you and to some extent Craig, indulged in. | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
You agree? Know. I think we have seen a hell of a lot of spin this | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
week. But I define is where you set out a message, we're going to take | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
the centre ground and you put out policies, that are like the rise and | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
Ukip. So you you have to communicate... In terms of trust, | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
the accusation has been levelled at you continually that because of the | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
era of spin, you saw trust in politicians and media operations, it | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
has died. Well, this excellent poem begins... I have had to put the | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
mixture each other. It begins with the Hutton enquiry. If the media, | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
large parts of it, only ever say one side of the story, at that was a | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
situation where... Having a go at at great... You have tried to control | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
the media! I tried to make sure our message was understood that the | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
public and unit resented the fact that we did it so successfully. This | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
starts off with the BBC in a state of collapse because he did not apply | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
even basic rigour to a piece of reporting which should never have | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
happened. People can read the diaries... You say, and all of us | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
continually say things, if you only ever get one side of the story, do | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
not surprised if the public believe one thing. I don't think anyone | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
could say we have only had one side of the story. Even John McDonnell, | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
was not a close friend of yours, had this to say to you. | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
I think it's a disaster for the Labour Party. | :49:42. | :49:43. | |
Because you are the person above all else who created a | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
political environment where no one believed a word a politician said. | :49:49. | :49:50. | |
You lost us 5 million votes in that process and set us up to fail. | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
The reason Jeremy was elected was because they wanted some | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
Look, John, I have come on here tonight to be nice | :50:00. | :50:09. | |
And I tell you why, because I care about | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
I really care about the Labour Party, and I worry | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
that you and yours are destroying it. | :50:20. | :50:21. | |
And what's more, I actually worry you don't even care. | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
We're trying to restore honesty and confidence in politics again, | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
All the Labour Party! What do you say to that? You chastise me for | :50:31. | :50:46. | |
continually going on about it but that is because that is how people | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
feel. Some people do! And as I said to him that day, I understand why | :50:52. | :50:54. | |
the media, particularly the right wing media, go on about new Labour, | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
and by the Tories do it... Let me finish the sentence if I may! I set | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
the John McDonnell for the Labour Party to trash the record of the | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
Labour Party is not only wrong, it is strategically stupid. What I said | :51:11. | :51:13. | |
to him and I will keep saying to him, is that until they understand | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
why we won elections in this period, even after the Iraq war, they will | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
not gain in a position where they might win again. You agree with him | :51:22. | :51:28. | |
about thats in terms of winning elections. In the end the PR machine | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
was part of it. You say you want elections. By doing strategy | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
properly and having proper communications. What about the | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
erosion of trust that people now feel they have lost that in | :51:44. | :51:50. | |
politicians? You feel part of that? Politics definitely has a part to | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
play in this and so does the media. You all here to talk about you. I | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
am, we can have an interesting discussion here about the impact of | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
persistently behaving in a certain way for politics and the media. Or | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
you can simply say, J at number ten, you were just trying to set the | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
agenda, you are terrible pantomime villains, we have no responsibility | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
at all. That's what I find depressing talk to journalists | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
sometimes, if it was an honest and open discussion about how sometimes | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
they make mistakes, just as we in politics too. I think the media is | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
under that scrutiny. But where is it? You make that statement, where | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
is it, can you give me an example. No, we have run out of time! | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
We've just received a statement from interim | :52:42. | :52:43. | |
Ukip Leader Nigel Farage regarding the situation | :52:44. | :52:44. | |
Mr Farage said: "I deeply regret that following an altercation that | :52:45. | :52:53. | |
took place at a meeting of Ukip MEPs this morning, that Steven Woolfe | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
subsequently collapsed and was taken to hospital. | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
Party insiders have also told The Daily Telegraph that Mr Woolfe | :53:00. | :53:03. | |
was punched by a Ukip colleague - that detail has not been confirmed. | :53:04. | :53:13. | |
Rail commuters across Surrey, Sussex, Kent and Hampshire have | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
seen travel chaos over the past few weeks. | :53:20. | :53:21. | |
Southern Rail staff have been striking, following proposed changes | :53:22. | :53:23. | |
The Rail, Maritime and Transport workers' union, or RMT, | :53:24. | :53:26. | |
has been threatening further industrial action. | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
With fresh walkouts due to start next week, the RMT has been locked | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
in talks with Southern's parent company, Govia Thameslink Railway. | :53:36. | :53:37. | |
Our correspondent Marc Ashdown is outside the talks in central | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
No sign of a deal just yet. They have been here since ten a.m., a few | :53:41. | :53:57. | |
cigarette breaks but that is the only sign of any white smoke from | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
this building. The fact they are still in there after three hours, | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
some will see as good news, such as been the animosity surrounding this | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
dispute. The last we heard, the RMT put forward a set of proposals that | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
they would agree to, Seven went away to look at those, as far as we know | :54:16. | :54:22. | |
the two sides are still talking. These peace talks, aimed at trade to | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
avert a fresh round of strikes, this is all about who closes the doors on | :54:28. | :54:35. | |
those Southern rail services that serve most of southern England, into | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
London. The Garter Ball was closed doors, historically, seven Roman to | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
the service and once the drivers to do that, the RMT say it has safety | :54:46. | :54:56. | |
indications. In the middle of all this, passengers, commuters are | :54:57. | :54:57. | |
suffering because of these disputes. We are now joined in | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
the studio by Mick Lynch, Assistant General Secretary | :55:04. | :55:05. | |
of the Rail, Maritime I have just come from the talks, it | :55:06. | :55:15. | |
has nothing to do with closing the doors, it's about the safety | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
critical role of the guards. We have put a set of proposals to the | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
company that will settle this dispute if they want to pick it up. | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
And what's your impression so far? Our impression is they are thinking | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
about it, if they want to come to sensible position, they will take | :55:32. | :55:34. | |
forward we have said. We have given the concessions that would deal with | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
all the things they want and we'll deal with the things we need. You | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
have rejected the proposal? Their proposal is they will sack and that | :55:45. | :55:46. | |
if we don't accept everything they have put forward. What have they put | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
forward? They have put forward that the safety critical role of the | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
guard is removed immediately. There are 35 different competencies that a | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
guard carries out, look at the Watford accident last week, the | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
guard if they could all the passengers, co-ordinated emergency | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
services, nothing to do with doors. That was a train in a tunnel. You | :56:10. | :56:18. | |
have rejected the offer they have put on the table and put forward a | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
counter offer? We have put forward a counter offer which is positive. | :56:23. | :56:29. | |
We're not interested in money, we never wanted money, we have never | :56:30. | :56:32. | |
asked for money, we told them they don't want their money. Do you think | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
there's a backlash against this now, bearing in mind the destruction that | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
has gone on for commuters? There is a backlash against this company, | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
they have launched a disastrous PR campaign, they are proposing to | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
spend ?1.5 million on this dispute, the put a backlash against them is | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
phenomenal, Everton they open their mouths, they put their foot in it. | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
They want to get around the table and get to a reasonable settlement. | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
So are you optimistic they will be a deal and this 14 days of strikes | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
will be avoided? I don't want to clear the picture that I'm never | :57:07. | :57:08. | |
that of the mystic because they are being driven by the DFT, Peter | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
Wilkinson has publicly they want to smash the RMT -- I am that | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
optimistic. The compromise on our side is that we have dealt with the | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
offer to migrate people to the new grade, offered to have a new train | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
dispatch procedure and to give them method of competencies without | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
costing them any money, that will secure disabled people, the | :57:33. | :57:34. | |
vulnerable, having access to the trains and assistance at all times. | :57:35. | :57:42. | |
This has caused unbelievable disruption over a long period of | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
time, what needs to happen? I don't know enough about what is going on, | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
but something I've always thought about the way we cover industrial | :57:51. | :57:57. | |
disputes in this country, they just tend to become a scene in the | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
reporting of this issue, a real focus upon these guys as the bad | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
guys. That is not true on this programme. That was a direct lift | :58:05. | :58:10. | |
from their press release, but opening and closing doors, there was | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
a fire on a training of Wales yesterday, landslip and a crash in a | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
tunnel and a guard took care of that. The reason they will help you | :58:18. | :58:19. | |
now! Now I know what you're thinking - | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
hasn't it been ages since we had There's just time before we go | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
to find out the answer to our quiz. The question for today is what has | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
Jeremy Corbyn been buying this week? Mr Corbyn was walking Hadrian's wall | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
- and stopped off to buy his wife That's all for today. | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
Thanks to our guests. Andrew will be BBC One | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
tonight at 11.45 with Michael Portillo, | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
Liz Kendall, John Pienaar, I'll be here at noon | :58:47. | :58:48. | |
tomorrow with all the big | :58:49. | :58:51. |