12/05/2012 Dateline London

residential areas. Now on BBC News it's time for Dateline London.

Welcome to a special edition do that it took an area of the world

which we cover up to really. Africa. We will discuss everything from

wars, at government and corruption to the impact of the Arab Spring.

My guests are gay up from Zimbabwe, Uganda, a Sudanese writer working

in London and a reporter for that day e-mail. I want to ask each of

our -- and our guests to you offer up something good. There is no-one

good thing. I will take you a few. One is that date line is covering

London. But, to be serious - Africa is the most beautiful Continent. A

say this unashamedly. You cannot compare. Many British are coming to

my country to seek a realist etcetera. It is a beautiful thing.

Secondly, the Arab world does not have all the oil and be resources.

Africa is a rich company that is not yet exploiter. Thirdly, the

people. African people are very good people. We forget one thing.

You need to get to my village in eastern Uganda and see the people -

the elderly women. Their hospitality is astonishing. They

keep everything - the last crumbs of bread. We have had you talking

about the bad news in Zimbabwe for years. Talas about the good news.

got a phone call from a young child in Harare who is a spoken-word

performer. That has become very popular. For the first time I heard

a piece in my native language. It's just reminded me how creative and

spiritual Zimbabweans can be. This was a 12-year-old kid. It was

Shakespeare, from two Gentlemen of Verona, in London. A mention shakes

being in my native language. ID checks being in school in and apart

by a country. So, the reversal was also a beautiful. Despite all the

problems Zimbabwe has based, there is a lot being created by kids in

the bedrooms on computers, writing songs and poetry. There remain

happy, create it and resilient. That's it makes me quite happy.

will get on to some of the problems in Sudan and a moment. Taylor has

some good things. The South Sudanese Shakespeare's play was but

found in a type of Arabic which is a pigeon Arabic version. -- was

performed. I was very proud of that. I will pan out t the economy.

Private equity investments in Africa - they are experience in a

huge amount of interest, especially from Middle Eastern investors. That

is back to pre-recession days of 5.5 %. People at the investing in

infrastructure in West Africa and Nigeria with huge returns. Land is

also of interest to private equity investors. China has huge interest.

Economic week the is a' economic story it of great interest. I know

that music is one of your hobbies. Africa had great other artists in

the conga in the 60s. Also, eight and from Nigeria is about to have a

number one hit at the moment. An American private investment has

launched a fund last week which concentrates, not on Africa,

because we know it is growing so fast - but in Ethiopia. That is

totemic of the speed of change at American investment has to focus

just on Ethiopia, the country which was seen as the ultimate African

basket case. But in fact it is growing so fast. One more thing - a

fantastic report last week which is allied to these speed of economic

change and progress. The rate of deaths in children under five in

Africa is plummeting in some countries. 9.9 % in Senegal and an

average of 5% across the Continent in just tip years. Let's move on to

some of there is good news. -- some of the not-so-good news. In Darfur

and Sudan there is fighting. Natural resources are at stake. Can

anything be done to bring peace TEC an its neighbours. There macaws and

much optimism when the Salsa seeded. It was overwhelmingly peaceful and

everyone thought it was a transcendental moment. You never

see a peaceful separation. But since, there has been conflict over

oil revenue and audit this abuse. This is because the original

agreement is fundamentally flawed. The secession Wallace born in

original sin, said his beat. Now what we see are the Ghosts of the

flaws coming back to what the countries. There are certain border

disputes that were not addressed and the mechanism was not easy to

follow through. The government of South Sudan has been problematic,

and it will impossible stomp in trying to negotiate with the

government of Sudan it has had problems, especially with Heglig.

It was seized by South Sudan. I was there when it happened and it

generated a huge amount of make it and is so students sentiment. It

was war between the two countries for two or three weeks. -- negative

South Sudan sentiment. It destroyed a lot of the facilities. So a lot

of bad blood has been generated. The problem is now, how do we move?

That is the problem. How do you address conflict in Africa?

Ultimately it has to be an internal solution because you cannot impose

subbing from outside. The first thing to do is recognise that there

is a problem. Monet was a beacon of stability for 20 years and in the

last few months a tragedy has unfolded way you had an almost

accidental cook an now you have remiss of militant groups involving

kidnapping and Sharia law being imposed on the Tuareg. Mali Foster

first, acknowledged there is a problem and then do everything to

calm the situation. There have been talking of people in the south as

insect, which is a chilling echo of past tragedies in Africa. The

outside world can try to cool things down, stop the war to begin

with and tell people to negotiate settlements. That's one of the

things we wanted to do in this programme - say to people not wait

until Macy pictures of children bombed and starving. To something

out. Where we see in Sudan something that could break up. I

think win the Sudanese explosion happens it may even overshadow the

Congo. I come from Uganda and we are preparing. The international

community, the UN are not addressing this issue and the right

way. What I know from my own sources - and I have been trying to

tell people - there has been a question of what will happen after

independence. This story of American special forces chasing

just economy is just a diversion everything. Joseph Conti. We will

have to work with our Partners and fight this war. You raise the point

about the great riches of Africa. Is that part of because? It was the

case in the Congo. There is is very true. We know that the Americans

are trying to shoot from the Middle East and it is problematic for oil

etc. They have come to Africa. There is oil in South Sudan. We

know very well from there is to be of strategic geopolitical

concessions of the West that the military are the constant. The

Americans are starting to deploy specifically t make America be able

to oversee these resources. problem is that I think resources

that are required by many countries are becoming more scarce. What

solutions can you really bring when people decide, for example the

Sudanese example - there were accused Asian as to who actually

bomb the oil pipeline. That was producing 95% of the income of

South Sudan. I think that the nations which rely on resources

like coiled need to stop selling guns to African countries and the

UN needs to play a greater role. They are you only neutral body

which can go in without being accused of having any agenda.

see this developing? A vital piece now is to talk to the government in

Sudan in the north. It is so isolated at the moment. The

government in this up as being given the virtue of the victim.

South Sudanese have been victimised for too long. They now have their

own country. But it is a new country and there are being a

little irresponsible in the dealings with the North. This is

not to absolve the government of Sudan, but they have no leverage

now. Because they have no friends. Exactly. Their enemies have

completely alienated them. The system of ostracise session of

governments has backfired entirely. When it comes to Darfur and the ICC

indictment or you get out is censure. And condemnation. You need

to get these people talking. carrot as well as a stick. Yes.

Every time I go back the government in the north is further isolate it

from the international community and unable to engage because there

There are at two sources. The oil and the areas in this it. -- in

dispute. What we need from the international community is the same

steps that we are taking with it Syria. But that hive of

intervention is not happening in Sudan. The kind of tension that

people give to conflicts in Africa is a very one-sided. They will only

pay attention if it is ethnic cleansing or genocide. If it does

not look quite fact, nobody is interested. It is likely racist.

There cannot be complicated conflicts in Africa. They have to

be ethnicities killing each other. Time to pick up on these themes.

The Arabs run began in Africa. Egypt, Tunisia, Libya. Governments

that have failed to give democracy and prosperity to countries that

could be quite wealthy. What could be done to discourage corruption

and encourage democracy? It will be a long time before you see that

happening in Africa. A lot of readers are struggling to create

modern democracies. There are also trying to hold on to traditional

bullies. The belief in witchcraft, for example. It is still

problematic in many areas of Africa. In Eastern son of way a woman said

she had discovered in diesel fuel in the rocks. -- Zimbabwe. Readers

travel to see this traditional Warman. -- woman. People still

believe in these cultural traditions. They do not match up

with democracy. There is a profit who has been given a lot of press

in Malawi because he predicted the death of the President. It does not

work. We have to let go of some of these things. Do you share that?

would discard the idea that Africa is not ready for change. That

people do not know they can change. The largest success story around

this time is that the people have woken up. I love to give my example

where I come from. We have had a war as a new gunner. -- Uganda.

People are struggling and demonstrating and protesting day by

day. One of the little moments that demonstrates this is how women are

part of this movement. One of the things that trended around the

world is when a woman leader was protesting and a policeman came up

and arrested her. He dehumanisation is much worse than the shootings

that have been happening. There is something new that is happening

across Africa. Whether these Arab Spring countries will succeed, I am

not interested. But it has given an opportunity for people in Africa.

They can wake up and demand their freedom. I have room with a lot of

that. We also saw that in Senegal. You saw musicians and these groups.

They made sure that it President could not stay on and a bypass the

democratic process. There will be quite a fast change in Africa. The

West likes to say, look at those horrible, corrupt Africans. Every

time a leader falls, where are they put in their money? The same

happens in France and America. The West is so Kohl of will in the

corruption of these leaders. -- Cole full well. It also feels the

idea of dependency. Governments failing to meet their

responsibilities in terms of providing education. Those things

have been done by foreign agencies. A lot of money has been put into

making hospitals. These governments feel that they do not have the

responsibility. Even worse is the happiness of Western countries to

hand money to some of the worst people in the world. The West are

financing and arming dictators. They are the ones. If America and

Britons were not supporting dictators, these mass uprisings

could work. There is some distinction could be made between

certain African countries and Arab countries. Sudan in particular.

People have been saying that it is next. It has not happened. The

reason is, I spoke to a diplomat about this, is because Sudan sees

stability as a virtue. We have had a lot of popular uprisings. There

has not been an out-and-out war between the north and south. There

is debility. -- stability. I see the virtues of stability. People

are tired of instability. They are afraid that once the foundations of

government have been laid that they will be up written. There also has

been a slow, hesitant march of democracy. Some of them are real

democracies. When you get now to -- a democratic process, that is a

step forward. The next generation of leaders will be most likely

educated outside of their countries. They are bringing back a sense of

wanting that democracy. We have got a couple of minutes left. A

diplomat said that the worst thing that happens with journalism is

that they present it as hopeless. What can we as journalists and

reporters do to change that perception? I would not want to go

in that direction. There are all these good things I have talked

about. But I can tell you, I have stayed out of my country half of my

life. I was 18 when I left. I am anxious to see change come. I have

transformed myself from a laissez faire journalist into a revolution

area. I think we should find those human stories that ten to look at

the larger picture. We tend to focus on the larger politics, but

less on how it affects the people. We need to look at the human

stories. What would sell to a British audience? There is growing

interest. But you have one Correspondent covering an entire

Continent. It is hard to do that. There is too much reliance on the

aid agencies for you get tedious impressions that the hall -- Hall,