Browse content similar to 14/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to Dateline London. | :00:23. | :00:24. | |
Does the Trump presidency promise a new golden age | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
And Britain's Prime Minister promises to work for a "shared | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
society" while the Red Cross says there is a humanitarian crisis | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
Separating the facts from the fake news today, | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
my guests are Michael Goldfarb, of Politico, Nesrine Malik, | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
who is a Sudanese journalist, Stefanie Bolzen, of Die Welt, | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
and Iain Martin, formerly editor of the Scotsman, | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
It's all a conspiracy against Donald Trump by US | :00:50. | :00:58. | |
intelligence and the media, or it's a conspiracy | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
by Donald Trump's supporters - and perhaps Russian intelligence - | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
to help Trump become President and embarrass | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
Either way, how far can Mr Trump's team of talented family members, | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
billionaires, ex-generals and others heal America's obvious divisions? | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
This is the week when he will become President of the United States. | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
Detox about bringing the country together. People want that. Will it | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
happen? Now, it will not happen. The country is divided. It is not a new | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
thing. It is not something that has happened in last year and a half | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
since Donald Trump declared he would run for president and he has become | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
a divisive figure. The country has been building to this since you are | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
correspondent in Washington, Gavin. You wrote a book about her angry | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
Americans wear. Sometimes when the economy is bad, the sense of being | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
at a distance with fellow citizens is pushed to the site when the | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
economy is OK. It has not been OK since the crash in 2008 for many. | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
Even if he was a more emollient and traditional politician, I don't see | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
that he could bring the country together. Barack Obama is exactly | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
that. He wasn't able to bridge the divide. The other part of your | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
question, about who do you trust? Use extraordinary good at exploiting | :02:18. | :02:25. | |
that question. Who do you trust? After decades and decades in which | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
the traditional news media, and they include the BBC New York Times, have | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
had their reputations, principally trashed. -- reputations | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
comprehensively trashed. Millions of people every day get their news from | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
sources that are decidedly nontraditional. There is exploiting | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
whom? The traditional way of finding it would be to Gundogan find out. | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
There is no time in the modern news cycle. It is an extraordinary change | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
of historical circumstance. The other part of this, and so many | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
things have gone on in the last week, but to have gas and who will | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
become president of the US in a fight with US intelligence services | :03:12. | :03:13. | |
and suggesting there could be warmer relations with Russia... That in any | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
time in the last 50 years, would seem like that sentence got mixed | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
up. Many things sound like they could never have happened before. | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
That is the answer to your question. Donald Trump not only casual | :03:28. | :03:35. | |
divides, she doesn't want to. -- he does not want to. The way that he | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
got to where he is today is by exploiting divides. In his last | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
press conference, which he gave when he was in a fight with CNN, when | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
things get calm, Donald Trump gets nervous and has to provide content | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
and substance. So he asked to provide drama all the time. He is | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
going to govern from the fringes. He is going to govern people on his | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
side and alienate everyone else. Whether that includes the CIA, the | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
Republican party, whoever, he knows that all he needs is the support of | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
those people who voted for him. They got him to where he is. Until, when | :04:18. | :04:25. | |
he says they need a tax to pay for the wall in Mexico, Congress don't | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
agree. Otherwise his domestic programme will not happen. But you | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
have to remember that even though some Republicans made very wise, | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
lofty pronouncements and Trump and how they are not happy he is here | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
and they tried so hard to make sure that there was a decent candidate, | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
he brought them back from the brink. He brought them back from death will | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
stop they were in the hinterland. They are now back in the driving | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
seat. They need to work with them to ensure they have a future in | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
Government. There's all kinds of parts of this for Germany as well. | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
We will get to that in a minute. I was thinking, the German elections | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
coming up. Germany is clearly quite alarmed that the kind of | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
intervention which now most people, wider conspiracy theories is | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
believed Russia did play a role in the US election. If it happens, it | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
can happen in Germany. There is a lot of nervousness ahead of the | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
elections in Germany in September. Everyone is expecting more Russian | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
intervention in domestic German politics. For example, there was a | :05:31. | :05:38. | |
lot of... There was a big story when refugee crisis started in 2015, with | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
a fake story about a Russian girl being rates by refugees. That came | :05:44. | :05:51. | |
out and was manipulated story. You can see that what we see now in the | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
US is just... It is happening in Europe as well. We will all have to | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
deal with this? Yes. And it is a big challenge. It is an extraordinary | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
week and we will get on to do these the fight with the doctors in | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
Britain, which is politically very brave. We also have which is | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
politically quite brave and American president to say that he thinks | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
there might be something a bit wrong within American intelligence. That | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
is quite brave. It is very brave when you consider what happened to | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
some of the previous presidency got into a row with the CIA. JFK springs | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
to mind and sold as Richard Nixon. What on earth ever happened to him? | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
He is playing a dangerous public quite clever game. He understands | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
media and how to disrupt media and block part of the traditional | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
structures in a way that gives him Inc". Ultimately, the problem for | :06:48. | :06:58. | |
him is the promises he makes essentially defy economic logic. He | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
talks about increasing entitlements, lowering taxes, detection is -- | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
protectionism but then making life better for American workers. But | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
prices will go up if they go that route. So it is very difficult to | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
see how he can, between now and the midterms, which is the beauty of the | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
American system, he has two years, if in those two years does not go | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
economically quite as he has promised people in Michigan and | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
those sorts of states that voted for him, then he has a problem. Of | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
course, his response then will be to blame Congress. He will be the man | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
who says, I try to do other stuff and it is just because these two | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
parties are completely useless. This is a swap that they have to dream. | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
He won so narrowly and on such a quirk of the electoral system, he | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
starts with Hillary having 3 million more votes in the electoral college. | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
His approval ratings, probably aside from Hilary, the worst of any | :07:57. | :08:05. | |
president. Reagan's budget director says we break it now, we fix it | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
later. In other words, spend money and worry about that later. That is | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
presumably what he will try to do? I do not think his mind goes far as | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
that. Or even as far as the midterms! I don't think that as it | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
works. The interesting thing to watch, said from his Twitter feed, | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
which I do wish they would stop, he plays the American mainstream media | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
like a fiddle. Who cares what he treats any more? We're not supposed | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
to normalise Donald Trump. This is is normal behaviour, at 3am he says | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
something crazy. The real action is now focused on Congress. It is | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
completely in the hands of the Republicans. They are deeply and | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
geological party. We should be looking at what they do more than | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
what he does. -- ideological party. And knowing that, we have to look at | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
which Republicans will stand up to him. In the Senate, guys like John | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
McCain, he has just been re-elected, he has six years, 1.5 Trump terms, | :09:09. | :09:19. | |
and it is possible he could run for a second term. He has 1.5 terms to | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
face up to a guy like John McCain. In the Senate, Villa 's | :09:26. | :09:27. | |
possibilities of standing and vision back against any -- a new | :09:28. | :09:36. | |
administration short on common political sense. | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
But the problem the rest of us have is that the president, as you know, | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
has the most power in terms of an executive order in an agency. That | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
is why people are worried. People are quite scared. In the event of a | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
terror attack some unforeseen foreign prices, the Imperial | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
Presidency, as it has grown in the last 40, 50 years, has a huge power. | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
He has freedom not just a tweet but to act on those tweets and take | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
action... And he has support. The point you made earlier about him | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
defying logic I trying to propose economic measures that are not | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
doable, we sit here for months before the election saying, Trump | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
cannot win because it defies logic. He won because he defied logic. His | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
supporters do not care. People who support them plainly do not care | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
about what he promises on the economy. There is no benchmark. You | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
can blame everything on his opponents, like Brexit, if it goes | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
wrong, it is the fault of the remainder is -- people who voted | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
remain. Let's move on. Russians - and friends | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
of the Kremlin - hate to be reminded that the Soviet Union | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
was on the Nazi side Stalin and Hitler carved up | :10:52. | :10:53. | |
Poland between them - and then, when Stalin joined | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
the winning side, his comradely forces occupied Poland and imposed | :10:58. | :10:59. | |
Communist governments. Now Poland is being reinforced by US | :11:00. | :11:01. | |
troops and other Nato forces, and so how serious is the prospect | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
of new conflict in Europe This is something Germans and people | :11:05. | :11:13. | |
in Scandinavia in particular are very sensitive about for obvious | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
reasons. And it is not only about Poland but the reinsurance | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
measurements that are started in Poland, Bulgaria and Romania. I was | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
in Lithuania to watch the final exercise of Nato troops before they | :11:29. | :11:35. | |
start deploying. The British will go to Estonia, I think. There is around | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
5000 troops in this region, reassuring measures. If you go to | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
Lithuania, they have a long, tragic story of occupation by the Germans, | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
then of course by Russia. There is a tangible fear. People are scared | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
there. If you look at the numbers, 5000 Nato troops, but if you look | :11:58. | :12:06. | |
couple of miles over the border, 100,000 Russian troops on the | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
western border of Russia and you have these missiles that can be | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
equipped with nuclear weapons. If you talk to people in Natal, the | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
question is, will we really see a state and state war? Is this | :12:20. | :12:28. | |
possible? On the other hand, we talked about Trump and manipulation | :12:29. | :12:37. | |
of the German election. There is also the case of manipulation in | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
other areas and destabilisation. How do you see this? The way you | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
characterise this, it is a deterrent, a trip were, it is not | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
the to fight a war but to say that we're interested. | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
Which underlines, look, it is 100 years this year since the Russian | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
Revolution. I think we need to start thinking about Russia again | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
seriously. Trying to understand Russian psychology. History gives us | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
some quite basic lessons. Do not invade Russia. Do not try and | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
provoke Russia. Russia is so vast that armies could be swallowed up in | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
it. Essentially, the thing to do is to try and contain Russia. Suggest | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
to Russia that we are serious about Western defence and we need to start | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
thinking again... Brexit to one side. The much bigger European | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
question is the integrity of the West and Western security. We have | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
got out of the habit of having to think about this in the last 25 | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
years or so and it is now back front and centre. Part of that is that at | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
the end of the Cold War, to put it in simple terms, the West won the | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
Cold War. Natal won the Cold War and there was no big conference or | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
Congress in Vienna, there was no Versailles Treaty. The Russians had | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
reasons to believe they were discounted because they were weak. | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
That was perhaps, looking at it, a long-term mistake. It was, and one | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
that people have not learned from in the past. I know that it is tedious | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
when people hark back to Nazi Germany but it is the same mistake | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
people make with Nazi Germany in World War I. A sense that it was the | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
end of history, they had dominated and there was no sort of plan. One | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
of the main lesson is that a staggering that people have not | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
learned, to see how Brexit is played out in the troubled action is played | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
out, and I think if you are an immigrant, these things are clear in | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
your head. But the fact that Natal and the European Union and all these | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
things happened because there was a fair that there could be a big | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
rupturing incident. World War II, people think it would happen again | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
but these things have receded from the public consciousness in a way | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
that I find really strange. In a way that I think people of the South | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
have not forgotten. And they do feel that these threats are real and | :15:07. | :15:08. | |
imminent. In answer to the question you made the first place, how | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
dangerous and how feasible is it, how realistic is it that we could | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
descend into a conflict, I think it is entirely feasible. Blunder into | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
it. Blunder into it with a series of unfortunate events. This is where | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
the World War I analogy comes in. The steps that led to the conflict | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
beginning where a series of blunders. The incorrect dramatic | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
assumptions about how far governments will go. I have to be | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
give up the Congress of Vienna. Poland was partitioned at the | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
Congress of Vienna. To bring about a Donald Trump, and mean, it is | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
something that we still can't know. It has been reported today, | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
actually, that in late December, Barack Obama that new sanctions on | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
Russia because of the allegations of hacking into the DNC and trying to | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
interfere with the American election. On the very day that he | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
did that, the incoming head of the National Security Agency, retired | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
General Mike Flynn, was on the phone to the Russian Embassy. In fact, | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
apparently, through the transition period, he is in regular contact | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
with the Russian Embassy and has been a regular guest on Russia, | :16:27. | :16:35. | |
today. The devil's advocate position is, Donald Trump is right. We need a | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
better relationship with Russia. Maybe you can do it. Maybe having | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
someone from Exxon, used to dealing with Russia, is a good thing. It | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
could be good, but what does that mean in terms of your European | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
partners, since 1945? Rex Tillerson, who is Secretary of State designate, | :16:53. | :17:01. | |
said, how would you have dealt with the invasion of Ukraine? He said... | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
The reason they say that Vladimir Putin has been respectful of Angela | :17:09. | :17:18. | |
Merkel, she sees the broader picture and this is what she sees through. I | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
agree with you, you need to find a new language with Russia. All the | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
polemic doesn't take us anywhere. The big question the end of the day | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
is, how do you read Vladimir Putin? They say that he is like a dancer | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
with the woman. When you step back, he will come forward. To keep that | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
balance right... He is a classic Russian. He is a prerevolutionary | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
figure, in a sense. He uses the techniques of the KGB and FSB and | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
never really left the KGB. The way that he thinks about Russia is he | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
wants to restore a concept of respect for Russia and Russia being | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
a great power. And only once, other than possibly during the Revolution | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
and at the end of the First World War, has Russia been properly fully | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
defeated. That was from 89 until 2000. The response and swing back | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
was the choice of someone like flooding Britain to restore an idea | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
of Russian pride. -- someone like Vladimir Putin. People cottoned on | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
that that well ago but the response to Vladimir Putin has been to laugh | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
at him, for five years ago, and recently to basically disintegrate | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
in the face of this resolved from Russia. It was interesting that in | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
the headlines it said the operation of Nato troops was called Atlantic | :18:46. | :18:54. | |
resolved at the same time Europe is falling apart and America's | :18:55. | :18:56. | |
detaching itself from Europe and potentially from Natal. So, do not | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
laugh at him but do not disintegrate in the face of the Russian | :19:03. | :19:03. | |
determination. Let's move on. In Britain, we have had prime | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
ministers talk of the big society and the shared society, | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
of those "left behind", the squeezed middle and JAMs - | :19:13. | :19:14. | |
just about managing. This week, we also heard | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
the National Health Service faces Instead of debating acronyms | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
and slogans, how serious are the social problems facing | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
Britain, in particular those associated with the ever-spiralling | :19:24. | :19:25. | |
cost of health care? Whatever you think of it, it is | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
quite bright for Downing Street to say that the family doctors, the | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
most respected profession in Britain, pretty much, need to work | :19:37. | :19:39. | |
longer, and if they don't, they will lose funding. Opinion polls suggest | :19:40. | :19:48. | |
there is resentment from people about the deal done to give GPs | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
shorter hours. I think you're right, in the middle of this crisis, it is | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
a brave and somewhat reckless strategy. There is also a degree | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
of... There is something seriously wrong here and that is a problem not | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
so much quickly with the NHS. It is a problem with social care, a | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
problem that Western countries have. Britain's population above the age | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
of 85 full double in the next ten years. Britain has not had a proper | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
grown-up conversation about how that should be dealt with and paid for. | :20:20. | :20:27. | |
What is happening is that that pressure is then loaded onto the NHS | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
in accident and emergency. You'll get the headlines from 20 years ago, | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
30 years ago. NHS is always impresses. Especially in January. -- | :20:36. | :20:45. | |
always in crisis. I think it is an exaggeration. Does Germany do things | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
better? Your Health Service in general costs more per Ashya of -- | :20:51. | :20:58. | |
per share of GDP. It does. Almost every day, you have a headline about | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
the NHS. In Germany, headline about the Health Service is probably if | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
they pay for a massage or acupuncture treatment. Not life and | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
death. It is people in miserable conditions. You think, I do not want | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
to get ill. They have brilliant doctors, but the capacity is | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
completely... It is money. In Germany, you pay around 16% of your | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
salary into a contribution insurance system. It is not tax paid like in | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
the UK. I looked at the numbers. In Germany, per capita, you haven't | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
eight hospital beds per capita. In the UK, 2.9 beds per capita. GDP is | :21:42. | :21:50. | |
around 11 or 12%. In Germany. In the UK, 8%. In Germany, you pay more | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
money to solve the problems. And you have a lot of people in the UK and | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
you have had savings and savings in public services while more people | :22:04. | :22:05. | |
come into the country. But then you have the democratic rubble when | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
people get older. -- demographic problem. You need more money but | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
other things as well. One is not to be partisan when dealing with the | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
Labour Party and Conservative Party. Whenever you see a debate about the | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
NHS, it is always posturing. It is never people try to find common | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
ground. The posturing and partisanship handset. -- harms it. | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
It is a political hot potato which is why there are these headlines. If | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
you observe it in the last 20 years, no-one in Government will say, this | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
is something that predates us and will probably happen after we leave. | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
Everyone is trying to prove that firstly, there is no issue, which is | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
what Theresa May was trying to do by deflecting it onto GPs. GPs not | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
pulling their weight. If there is an issue, it is one precipitated by | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
legacy. That is something we picked up from Government before. There is | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
a lot of dishonesty, political fear and partisanship. Political fear, we | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
know that one person who went in to see Tony Blair to be promoted was | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
terribly worried he would get Health. To get it is a bit of... | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
Maybe that is why they have not replaced Jeremy Hunt after all these | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
years. No-one else raised his hand in Cabinet and said, I will take it. | :23:26. | :23:27. | |
Jeremy is doing such a novel job, someone has to fix it. It is a very | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
difficult job. Very difficult job. NHS, after the monarchy, the thing | :23:35. | :23:42. | |
that defines being a modern Brit, the sense of pride in the NHS... It | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
the opening ceremony of the NHS. I come from America and went last if I | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
would never move back, I think, how much money, even with some form of | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
Obamacare, which would be around in a month, but the amount of money | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
have to earn before I pay tax just to ensure my family... Here, that | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
whole thing has been lifted from my shoulders. There is a cultural | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
fixation on it. I think there is a cultural fixation on the NHS in this | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
country and people think that there is this... There was an interview | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
with immigrants to see how well the integrated in the UK. When asked | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
what the NHS dans four, one said National Health Service, and then | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
someone said, no, it is envy of the world. | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
This is the curious thing about the British. I accept that there needs | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
to be more money, particularly on social care. But almost alone in | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
Europe or in the world is this concept of a massive National | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
Service, run effectively from a desk in Whitehall, with a staff of more | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
than 1 million people. Highly centralised. And whenever there is a | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
problem in a part of the system, it becomes a mash of -- massive | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
national scandal. This is not to other countries do it. | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
The Health Service has evolved to this point and changes began going | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
back to the 1980s, when there is an idea of starting the beast coming | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
from conservatives. -- conservatism. People would get fed up with social | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
care and want to go private. And look, the other thing, and this | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
might come out wrong, but because the population of this country shot | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
up after 2004, this put a tremendous stress that has not been budgeted | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
for or accurately assessed by all the consultants who are meant to | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
figure out that. That is true, but as well as more | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
money, the opposite is true. We need a more partisan discussion because | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
we need to be the consensus and there has to be room for new ideas, | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
like what Germany, France and Italy are doing. Let's move on. | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
That's it for Dateline London for this week. | :26:00. | :26:00. | |
You can comment on the programme on Twitter and engage | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
We're back next week at the same time - | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
Hello. It is a quieter day for most of us today. There will be a | :26:07. | :26:37. | |
scattering of showers but also some sunshine as well. Some showers | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
running food North Sea coasts could be wintry and this north-west of a | :26:42. | :26:44. |