Browse content similar to 01/04/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Two examples of power to the people for us this week, | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
but with very different responses from those in charge. | :00:28. | :00:29. | |
Russia saw some of the largest street protests of Vladimir Putin's | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
17 years in power, which ended with more than one thousand arrests | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
Nine months after the British voted to leave the European Union, | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
Prime Minister Theresa May sent a polite letter to Brussels | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
To discuss the week's events in Russia and the EU, | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
with me are three journalists who write to the world from London: | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
The Russian-born writer Alexander Nekrassov, | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
Michael Gove MP, who was a Conservative cabinet | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
minister until last summer, and is now a columnist | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
And Stefanie Bolzen, from Germany's Die Welt. | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
Let's begin with Britain's exit from the European Union. | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
Last summer, by a margin of 52% to 48%, people here voted to leave. | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
Theresa May wanted to stay in the EU, but now she has the task | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
of negotiating not just Brexit, as it's become known, | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
Since 1973, Britain's laws have absorbed growing quantities | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
of regulations devised between the 28 member | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
countries, on which a court in Luxembourg has the final say. | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
Those who want to stay argue this pooling of sovereignty has made it | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
easier to trade and has created new protections in areas | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
Supporters of Brexit say it's simply a case of taking back control. | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
Michael Gove, you were a supporter of Brexit, a big advocate during | :01:45. | :01:52. | |
last year's campaign. On Wednesday, the tone was sadness on all sides. | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
By Friday it had become steely. Should we be preparing for a long | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
and bloody war between the two sides before the deal is reached? I think | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
we should be preparing for a professional and hard edged | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
negotiation which at the end of it will result in a strong partnership | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
between both sides. It is absolutely the case that while Donald Tusk | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
expressed his sadness that Britain was leaving, he is also clear that | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
he wants at the end of this process, all European negotiations want at | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
the end of this process, a free trade deal between Britain and | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
Europe and the preservation of security cooperation and other links | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
which are in all our interests. I suspect that when historians come to | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
look back on Britain's membership of the European Union, they will see | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
those 40 odd years as an anomaly in Britain's history, and they will | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
conclude that people like Hugh Gaitskell and shall Charles de | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
Gaulle were right, that we were destined to be friendly but | :02:53. | :03:01. | |
separate. Is that right, Stefanie Bolzen? I came across a sentence by | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
Winston Churchill who said, if we ever had to choose between Europe | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
and the open sea, we will always choose the open sea, so we are now | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
out there on the open sea, and we have seen by the answer of the | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
president of European Council, but immediately the tone here in Britain | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
has changed, and one is talking about provocation by the EU 27, | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
going down the path of war, and let's just say it is a sensitive | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
situation we are in, and I think everybody who was a stakeholder is | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
to be treating us with a lot of responsible to. How much, Stephanie | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
Baker, do you think we are at Brent Winship? We had this from Britain | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
say we must do the two things together, we must have our divorce | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
negotiations but also our trade agreement running side-by-side, and | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
Brussels says, Angela Merkel says, divorce first and then we talk | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
trade. I think this shows you how complex these negotiations will be. | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
They can't even agree on process, let alone the issues at hand. There | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
was some hope, and some people expressing hope that Theresa May's | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
letter to Donald Tusk this week might have led to some kind of | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
associate membership that was voiced in various quarters, but remember | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
she did reiterate her stance that she does not want the UK in the | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
single market or the customs union because she wants to be able to | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
negotiate free-trade agreements with other countries. But this is the | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
issue that worries business is the most, if you look at what businesses | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
are doing and how they are reacting to this, they are re-evaluated | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
business in the UK and implementing their contingency plans, and you | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
already see the big players in the City of London, Lloyd's of London, | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
Goldman Sachs, opening offices on the continent, shifting jobs, and | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
you will see a slow burn. Now you see Theresa May finally recognising, | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
she finally mentioned it in her letter to Donald Tusk, that | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
financial services are imported to the UK economy, and the task pushed | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
back saying we will not give any special deals for specific sectors. | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
So she has overpromised and the British people on what is possible, | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
and I think it will be hard for her to deliver. And difficult for her | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
party, as well, Michael Gove, because she was a Remain a, and she | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
has to convince them that she is now committed to Brexit, there will be | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
people in the party who say, we cannot compromise on this, people | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
will be trying to do the negotiation almost on her behalf. The Prime | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
Minister will face pressures from people who feel strongly on either | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
side of the debate, but she is in a stronger position domestically than | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
any other leader in western Europe, she is 19 points ahead of her | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
principal opposition about it and doesn't face an election. So of | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
course there are domestic waters to navigate, but actually, Theresa goes | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
into these negotiations with United and solid Conservative Party behind | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
her, a Labour Party incapable of providing opposition, and with a | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
country including those who voted Remain pretty solidly convinced that | :06:13. | :06:14. | |
we now have to proceed with our departure. More than that, she also | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
has the goodwill of a variety of international partners outside the | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
European Union as well. So of course in these negotiations there will be | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
give-and-take, but I think it is important not to underestimate the | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
strength of the position the Prime Minister is in. How prepared are | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
they to negotiate with the other 27? Angela Merkel has been adamant on | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
separating the process first. First we talk about the divorce, and that | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
is mainly the status of EU citizens in the UK and on the continent, but | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
it is also about the money. Somebody in Berlin said to be this week, it | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
is a question of trust. The British Prime Minister will have to give | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
something very substantial in the beginning, and I wonder where you | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
sake she is strong domestically, but she will get a lot of grief about | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
that. This did your former boss, David Cameron, because he got his | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
renegotiation, and everybody said, that is not very impressive, he had | :07:14. | :07:22. | |
to give away too much. There is a willingness to give the Prime | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
Minister a benefit of the doubt. The point about divorce first and trade | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
second is those elements of the divorce that have been mentioned by | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
Michel Barnier are all areas that we want to see progress on as well. He | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
said that he wants to make sure that the position of EU citizens in the | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
UK and UK citizens in the EU is settled, we want that as quickly as | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
possible. He also said we don't want a hard border between Northern | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
Ireland and the Republic, we want to ensure that. And it is also clear | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
that while the nature of what Britain might pay in the future, the | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
sum is not going to be resolved rapidly, and it is also clear from | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
other European Prime Ministers that they don't want the sum resolves | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
necessarily rapidly to be able to move on to other talks, they just | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
want an acknowledgement of the fact that Britain will play its part in | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
making sure that the European Union budget which would be revisited | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
until 2021 would be resolved satisfactorily. How do you think | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
they will be looking at this in Moscow, Alexander Nekrassov? This is | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
the European Union that Britain was part of for nearly half a century, | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
and it seems to be fractured. I appear on Russian television to | :08:29. | :08:30. | |
explain to the Russian people what is going on here and what is going | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
on with Europe generally. The feeling is that there is a Project | :08:36. | :08:47. | |
Fear continuing in Britain, for example the Remainers have not | :08:48. | :08:57. | |
calculated how much it will cost by the Brexiters if they pull out. And | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
how will it cost Britain? Nobody talks about that. Secondly, I think | :09:02. | :09:12. | |
the Remainers and the Brexit are being allowed a voice and having | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
more tribal, whereas the Brexit people seem to be apologising all | :09:17. | :09:24. | |
that time, apologising to leave. I am glad that we voted to leave, but | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
I also recognise that having voted to leave, we have to respect the | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
rights of priorities of the EU 27, so I want us to be in a position | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
where we are the end of this process remain friends and partners. So I | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
think it is very important for those of us who argued that we should | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
leave the European Union to respect the right of the EU 27 to respect | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
their own priorities and implement their victory in their way. You | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
mentioned finances, Alexander. There are big elections coming up, and one | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
outcome in France could be if Marine Le Pen were to win. The euro would | :10:00. | :10:07. | |
be in trouble. I think her chances are very slim. She would have never | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
gone to Moscow with the visit a few weeks before the elections, because | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
that is basically suicidal. That does mean she has no chance. But | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
coming back to the Europe thing, the important thing to understand is | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
that everybody has concentrated on Britain, Britain is entering | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
troubled waters, nobody knows what is going to happen. Europe is | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
entering the same waters. Nobody knows in Europe what to do. My | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
personal opinion is that Europe is more terrified than Britain, because | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
what might happen when this country leaves them. I think they are | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
absolutely terrified. In my personal opinion, Britain should have slammed | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
the door in Europe's face and said, we are leaving, if you don't give us | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
what we want, we just walk away, Europe will sink. Can I just | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
interrupt? I am German and going a lot to Germany and other European | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
countries, and I do not find anybody who was terrified because the UK is | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
leaving, because the UK leaving Europe is doomed. Not Europe, the | :11:13. | :11:21. | |
EU. Even the EU. Germany has never had such low unemployment since | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
1991. It is in a very good place... Germany was profiting from the EU, | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
the only country that was. Hoiland is going well, Austria. I think it | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
is time for everyone to say that the project benefited Germany most of | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
all. Let's be fair. Let's be honest about it. Why are we always | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
pussyfooting around this? This is not about pussyfooting... Germany is | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
terrified, Merkel is terrified of Britain leaving, because it can | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
start chain reaction. So why did we cease much unity after the 23rd of | :12:01. | :12:10. | |
June 2016? There is no unity? No? If there was unity, they would already | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
be in a position, they have had nine months after the referendum, they | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
could have worked out, there is no position, no unity, they don't know | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
what to do... And I suppose the thing, Michael Gove, is in | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
situation, because of the elections in the summer in France and the | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
autumn in Germany, serious negotiations without knowing who is | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
in charge in France and Germany can't really start until after that, | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
can they? Certain things can be resolved. It is the case that | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
concern among some French politicians and German politicians | :12:43. | :12:44. | |
about what they might term populism would mean that they would not want | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
to be seen to be giving Britain too much for fear of encouraging those | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
populist movements. However, I sense that both in France and in Germany, | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
the surge of Marine Le Pen or the alternative Deutschland has been | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
capped, and whatever the long-term future, in the medium term there is | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
confidence that Emanuel Krom will be French president and Angela Merkel | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
will remain as Chancellor. And there was a lot of confidence last summer | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
that Hillary Clinton would be President of the United States! Yes, | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
but I think the leaders of the EU feel more comfortable in their skins | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
and more prepared to deal with Britain in a businesslike way rather | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
than having to look over their shoulder at insurgents in their own | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
backyard. Stephanie Baker, we are back again one way or another to the | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
question of the money. Has to be a deal from the EU 27 point of view | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
that doesn't make being outside the European Union more attractive than | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
being in it, and whether it or not you are right, Alexander, about | :13:52. | :13:53. | |
other countries looking for an exit, there is always that fear that once | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
one country has left, it was supposed to never happen and it is | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
happening. But in terms of agreeing the money, there have to be | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
compromises. Has anybody done any proper analysis as to how much | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
Britain should be paying to leave? There was a report that estimated | :14:11. | :14:24. | |
25-30,000,000,000 as a figure. That is a bargaining position. It is, | :14:25. | :14:32. | |
which is why Theresa May might be prepared to pay more for future | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
access, but this has never been done before, so we don't know, what is | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
the trade-off? I will give you EU pensions if you give me the wine | :14:44. | :14:50. | |
cellar? There are so many variables that need to be worked out, which is | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
why she wants, sensibly, to do it simultaneously. Obviously from the | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
EU 27's point of view, UK wants to leave, that is fine, all they care | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
about is the terms of departure. They don't need to give a future | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
free-trade agreement with the UK. That is a secondary issue. And | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
speaking to your point, I think Brexit is all consuming in this | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
country, and I don't think it is in the other European capitals. It is | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
lower down in the pecking order, and they think it has in some sense | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
given the fallout from the referendum, encouraged a degree of | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
unity and taken the wind out of the sails of some of these populist | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
movements on the continent. And recently, you see every weekend in | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
Germany thousands and thousands of people going on the street and | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
protesting in favour of Europe, so I still can't see why you think every | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
German will think the EU is doomed. I think to be fair Germany because | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
of the way in which the euro was constructed has had an advantage, | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
and I think the unhappiness within the European Union, and again I | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
recognise it is for EU countries to resolve their own fate, is in the | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
south, Greece, Portugal, Italy, Spain, where the pain of the single | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
currency has been felt. And we have this to talk about for months and | :16:12. | :16:12. | |
months! Let's move east. Corruption is not a word you hear | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
used much in British politics. Even the European Union's | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
critics are more inclined to accuse its bureaucrats of waste | :16:19. | :16:20. | |
and of not supervising properly how the money is spent rather | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
than of ripping off member countries In Russia, though, last | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
weekend Alexei Navalny, the most prominent of a relatively | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
small number of politicians to publicly oppose President Putin, | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
produced a report accusing Dmitry Medvedev, prime | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
minister turned president turned prime minister | :16:38. | :16:38. | |
again, of corruption. He urged people to take | :16:39. | :16:39. | |
to the streets to protest. For Muscovites, that resulted | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
in more than 1,000 arrests. The week ended with Mr Navalny | :16:45. | :16:46. | |
serving the start of "Those who go outside | :16:47. | :16:48. | |
the law must be punished", Alexander, there are going to be | :16:49. | :17:04. | |
more protests, inevitably. That is the nature of the beast, once | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
protests have started, they always continue. What will be the Russian | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
response? We're already seeing handcuffs on Mr Navalny. Do keep | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
ratcheting up that reaction? Corruption is a problem in Russia. | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
Nobody will deny this. But Russia is one of the few countries in the | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
world, maybe China as well, where a big politicians, or cabinet | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
ministers, actually, bankers, governors of vast regions are | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
arrested and put in jail for corruption. Give me another example | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
of any country in the western world where such things happen? I do not | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
know about such things. There is a war on corruption, but | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
unfortunately, this corruption problem has a western angle to it. | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
You probably read about the Russian money-laundering in London and other | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
places in the West. Unfortunately, western banks are open to such | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
money. Unfortunately, the problem is that some of these officials, quite | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
a few of them in Russia, all these sort of criminals, they move that | :18:17. | :18:24. | |
money to the West. Until the West helps Russia and the banks stop | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
accepting billions and billions of dollars coming from Russia, to fight | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
corruption in Russia is very difficult. It is the same with | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
China, by the way. Lots of Chinese money is coming into western banks. | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
Nobody as the question, nobody says anything. As regard to the protests | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
themselves, I must say, they were not massive. I am not trying to | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
demean them. 1000 plus people on the streets of Moscow? By Russian | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
standards, that was not something like we had in 2012. That was not | :19:01. | :19:08. | |
massive. As for Mr Navalny. He makes Marine Le Pen look like a schoolgirl | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
with some of his statements. Russia is only for Russians, no immigrants, | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
that sort of stuff. You have to be careful. As to my question, more of | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
a crackdown if these protests continue? I do not really see large | :19:25. | :19:32. | |
protest continuing. Navalny does not have the support in the country. | :19:33. | :19:41. | |
Still, Putin has vast support, 80% plus. Another thing which people | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
here do not understand is that the more the West puts pressure on | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
Putin, the more popular he is in Russia. All these sanctions, the | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
constant reminders that Russia is going to invade or attack, or | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
interfere, like we have in Washington, Russia is now deciding | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
who the president of the US is going to be, this plays into his hands. Of | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
course western banks are enabling Russian corruption, there is no | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
doubt. Of course Horacio Cartes is -- of course Putin is popular and | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
will likely win re-election next year but to say that the only reason | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
that Russian corruption is continuing, that the Russian | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
authorities would crackdown if it were not for the western banks, that | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
is ridiculous. The corruption goes to the heart of the Russian | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
government. The protests are interesting. They are different from | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
the last protests in 2012, partly because they spread beyond Moscow | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
and St Petersburg to nearly 100 Russian cities, but most importantly | :20:47. | :20:48. | |
because of the number of young people that came out to protest. | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
Teenagers and university students who do not get their news from | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
Russian state television. They get their news from the Internet, so | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
they are watching not only Navalny's YouTube channel, they are watching | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
videos of Russian troops in eastern Ukraine. How does the Russian | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
government deal with, what does it do to stop these protests from | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
spreading? Already we have seen the Russian prosecutor General blog | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
Internet pages of some of the protesters, calling for new protest | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
tomorrow. He is going to have a hard time reining in this new, young | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
opposition movement that has breathed new life into what has | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
previously been a moribund, demoralised opposition. Michael | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
Gove, you're back from Washington. There was a time when America would | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
have been very publicly saying it was on the side of the protesters on | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
the streets. Presumably not at the moment, with the administration of | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
President Trump, giving the difficulties he is facing over the | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
relationship between some in his campaign team and the Russians? Yes, | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
it is striking. The former national security adviser, Mike Flynn, and | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
the former campaign manager, they are in the downsides of Congress and | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
others because of allegations of corruption and collusion, but | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
separate from that, or so it appears, the president and Rex | :22:20. | :22:27. | |
Tillerson are looking for a reset. Every previous president has sought | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
a reset with Mr Putin. President Obama wanted one, President Bush | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
wanted one. The previous president said he thought he was a good man. I | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
think there will be a disillusionment. Fundamentally, it | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
is very difficult to see how any American president worth their salt | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
can forge an understanding with Putin when there are strategic | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
interests are not aligned, and also when Putin's incursions into the | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
Ukraine and his attitude towards his neighbours is not that of the | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
country which is respecting the national sovereignty of other | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
states. Europe has renewed its sanctions against Russia, but there | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
is there to the relationship now, or is it frozen until President Putin | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
finally leaves office, whenever that is, Stefanie Bolzen? There is a | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
feeling of being powerless against what is going on in Russia, and we | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
have seen protests in the past, the past, the killing of Boris Nemtsov, | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
we have seen one person go to jail. He is now living in London. There is | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
a feeling that there is not much that we can do. | :23:39. | :23:51. | |
In looking at what is going on in Washington, and they're probably | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
relieved that for the time being Donald Trump cannot really move on | :23:55. | :23:56. | |
Russia, he cannot commit anything. He has said in the past that he | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
would lift sanctions. But whatever he might now do towards Russia will | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
be seen in the context of what is going on. It must be very | :24:03. | :24:05. | |
frustrating for some of those people in Moscow who were celebrating when | :24:06. | :24:07. | |
President Trump was elected, this is a man we can do business with, not | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
like dreadful Hillary Clinton, we have seen her off, but now his hands | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
are tied? What we are witnessing in Washington is not an attack on | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
Washington, it is an attack on Trump. People have missed this | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
point. The US Congress, is trying, along with intelligence agencies, to | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
unseat the US president. That is remarkable. In Moscow, in the | :24:39. | :24:41. | |
Kremlin, they are quite bemused by what is going on. Putin is | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
approaching another election next year in March. He is basically not | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
doing anything, because the West is doing everything for him. The | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
election campaign is run from London, Paris, Berlin and | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
Washington. There must be marginal fears among some, the word | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
whispered, impeachment, maybe it is being said a little bit louder in | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
Washington than it might have been a few months ago. Donald Trump does | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
not look as secure as he did. It is unlikely that he will be impeached | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
with the Republican-controlled Congress. This week, Michael Flynn, | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
the former national security adviser, his offer to testify before | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
the house and Senate intelligence committees in exchange for immunity | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
from prosecution. That indicates that perhaps he had something really | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
explosive to drop, or is he is worried that he has all ready | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
violated so many rules he wants to get something in exchange. We do not | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
know that so far. The Senate intelligence committee seems to have | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
pushed back on his offer for unity, and is not ready to entertain it. It | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
could take months for that to pan out. That is something to look | :25:56. | :26:02. | |
forward to. Thank you all very much for being with us on Dateline this | :26:03. | :26:03. | |
That's it for Dateline London for this week. | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
We're back next week at the same time. | :26:08. | :26:09. | |
You can, of course, comment on the programme on Twitter | :26:10. | :26:12. |