Browse content similar to 30/06/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Does Scotland's SNP whirlwind blow away any hopes Wales has from | :00:08. | :00:18. | |
:00:18. | :00:25. | ||
getting more money from the UK Good evening. West -- when the SNP | :00:25. | :00:32. | |
secured a majority of the seats in May's collection, it sent | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
shockwaves across the UK. The election process had been set-up | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
with the idea that no one party would win half the seats that holy | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
writ. How did the nationalists secure the victory and what will it | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
mean for the devolved government in Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast? | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
What the result in Scotland make it more difficult for Wales to receive | :00:52. | :01:02. | |
:01:02. | :01:08. | ||
funding from Westminster? Brian A majority SNP government, it was | :01:08. | :01:14. | |
never supposed to happen. Scottish Parliament would kill the | :01:14. | :01:23. | |
SNP. I am delighted to confirm that I will be seeking re-election by | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
the Scottish Parliament as the First Minister of Scotland. | :01:26. | :01:32. | |
SNP's victory in 2007, which saw them have one more at best -- MSP | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
elected than Labour shocked many. They ruled as a minority | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
administration for four years until May this year. What would happen | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
then was a political earthquake as the SNP reached a majority in the | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
parliament. It was an outstanding result. It was not expected by most | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
of the academics observing the election. I do not think it was | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
expected by the SNP either. The electoral system was designed to | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
prevent any party getting an overall majority so it was | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
surprising. It has changed the dynamics of Scottish politics and | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
of Scotland's relationship with the UK government. Alex Salmond went | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
into the election hugely behind Labour in the polls put Labour's | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
lead crumbled. It was put down to poor leadership and a bad campaign. | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
The parlour - a party's parliamentary leader was cornered | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
in a fast-food outlet by protesters in what was a low point for Labour. | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
All three of the Unionist Party, Labour, Conservatives and Lib Dems | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
performed badly. It was a terrible result. We did not see it coming. | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
They are in the midst of an internal event about why we did not | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
do so well. We have looked to the Welsh Tories to see how we can | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
learn lessons. For us, we were dealing with the consequences from | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
the coalition at Westminster but now we are moving forward. Alex | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
Salmond and its nationalist MPs take the reins of the Scottish | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
Parliament just as it is about to get greater control over taxation | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
to make it more accountable. The Scottish bill gives ministers in | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
Edinburgh and extra �12 billion worth of financial powers. For the | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
Unionist parties, Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
Democrats, it means a transfer of responsibilities from Westminster | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
to Holyrood but for the Scottish government, it does not go far | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
enough. The SNP wants to establish a degree of hostility with the | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
partnership that is the United Kingdom, so their default position | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
but that is never enough. Scottish government immediately | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
called for UK ministers to move further and faster, including | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
around them to borrow and take corporation tax. The nationalists | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
will always take whatever they can get because that has been the | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
strategy. It is gradualism. More powers, more powers, more powers | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
but it is never enough. It is how the opposition parties combat that. | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
Even if they do not get to independence, I think in five | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
years' time, Alex Salmond will be able to say, I have achieved | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
significant extra powers for Scotland. Scotland does very well | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
out of the Barnett formula which is how money is allocated across the | :04:22. | :04:29. | |
UK. A report found Wales was short- changed by �300 million from the | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
system. That is only one side of the equation. You have to look at | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
the input side, not only be out but which comes from the UK Treasury to | :04:39. | :04:48. | |
Scotland. Scotland put some more, more than its share, post -- most - | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
- per head of population. All credit to the Welsh government, I | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
hope they are successful and prosecuting their own arguments, | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
providing it is no detriment to the Scottish position. We have a | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
administrations of different political colours in the four | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
capitals, the nationalists in power in Edinburgh, Labour going it alone | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
in Cardiff, the Liberal Democrats and Conservatives in London and a | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
mix of all the parties in Belfast. What does that mean for relations | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
between the administrations in the future? So Gotland maintains it | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
will work closely with the Welsh government where there is common | :05:30. | :05:40. | |
:05:40. | :05:41. | ||
ground -- Scotland. High we will continue to press the Treasury and | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
I think there is a common agenda that we can share. One thing is | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
certain, the SNP will use its majority to ask voters in a | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
referendum whether they want independence, somewhere near the | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
end of the five-year parliamentary session. I think one thing you | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
should learn is never underestimate Alex Salmond. No one thought he | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
would have an outright majority, so to say he has no chance of winning | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
any independence referendum, would be to write him off. All the | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
opinion polls show people like devolution. They want more power | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
for the Scottish Parliament but they do not want independence. The | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
SNP have five years in government to work the system to put in place | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
what they call the conditions for a Yes vote to have a yes vote. | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
four years ago, Alex Salmond put his -- took his place next to the | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
Queen as the newly elected First Minister of Scotland at the opening | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
of the Scottish Parliament. When he will take his seat tomorrow, he | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
will do so as the leader of a majority government. A lot has | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
changed since 2007. Four so, what does the SNP's | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
success for the Welsh government's hopes for fiscal reform? I spoke to | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
the Finance Minister Jane Hutt. Plaid Cymru says Wales was in the | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
slow lane now, is that true? came through the selection with a | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
very strong mandate for our programme of government. Standing | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
up for Wales was the message and that means sorting out the fairer | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
funding deal that we need from the UK government. That is why the | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
First Minister has led on this. He made a statement in the last week | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
or so and that was well received across the chamber. We have a | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
debate on Tuesday which clearly defines the way forward, a very | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
strong message. Let's hear also from the UK government, what they | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
will offer us. Some criticised Carwyn Jones in terms of what he | :07:45. | :07:51. | |
told the UK government he wanted, things like stamp duty devolved and | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
that being rather timid. Why doesn't the UK government want | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
corporation tax devolve? What we all know is we need the fair | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
funding deal. We need to implement that floor, to stop the convergence | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
and Winnie the reform of Barnet. Everyone in the assembly recognises | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
that. Unless we deal with that underfunding, that 300 million that | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
was identified and analysed, that has to be the first step. That was | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
said very clearly in the report. The First Minister said, we need to | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
be on a level playing field with the rest of the UK and that is what | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
we discussed when the finance ministers and the first ministers | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
came together. We need a level playing field. The reform of the | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
Barnett formula which is currently the way the devolved nations get | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
their funding worked out, the money from the UK Treasury, that remains | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
the priority of the Welsh government? The priority is to | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
implement the funding for the Holtham floor which prevents | :08:56. | :09:03. | |
convergence. That is part of the reform of Barnet. Just let me | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
clarify, what you are going for now is the Barnet floor which prevents | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
too much of a gap emerging between what Wales gets in funding compared | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
to regions in England? It is that that you're going for, rather than | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
complete reform of Barnet in terms of a needs based for Miller? | :09:23. | :09:31. | |
needs based for Miller clearly follows on the -- formula. It is | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
very important that we recognise that Gerry Holtham, recognised | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
internationally, he recognised there is a way of halting the | :09:41. | :09:47. | |
underfunding of Wales. It is a very simple thing the UK government | :09:47. | :09:56. | |
could do to commence further funding. Scotland is opposed to the | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
reform of the Barnett Formula wholesale and I wonder where the | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
think the recent success of the SNP makes it more difficult for the | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
Welsh government to get its voice heard? We have very common cause | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
across the devolved administrations. We worked together, the first | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
ministers, the finance ministers, there are many areas where have | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
common cause. Let's just look at the common cause that we have. We | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
have to ensure that we are suspected -- respected, in terms of | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
our responsibilities... I have to press you on this. Scotland does | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
not want to see reform of the Barnett formula. You have just said | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
that is your priority are awash government, given the political | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
context, the rip roaring success of the SNP in recent elections, the | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
fact that there will be an independence referendum, the UK | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
government will not want to aggravate Scottish voters, surely? | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
I think if the people of Wales knew what they were doing on May 5th. | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
They voted for Welsh Labour to stand up for them. Fairer funding | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
was at the forefront. And in fact, what is important is we have got | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
consensus across all the political parties... A full give me but that | :11:15. | :11:25. | |
:11:25. | :11:27. | ||
is not what I am asking you. have to start the process of. That | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
is what we take to the UK government. The First Minister is | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
meeting the Chancellor on Wednesday. But does what happened in Scotland | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
make it more difficult for you to get the message across? The point | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
about our relationship with Scotland and what Scotland is | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
calling for an secure in, they have got the Scotland Act, we are going | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
through what the UK government has described as a Carmen like process. | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
We have already had the Holtham Commission. There are areas where | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
we stand up for Wales and that is the message that comes through. Not | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
just from the Welsh government, it comes from every political party, | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
Plaid Cymru, the Welsh Conservatives and Welsh Liberal | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
Democrats are well behind the Welsh government. What are your hopes for | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
a Calman style Commission, Calman being the commission taken in | :12:22. | :12:28. | |
Scotland looking at how or fiscal devolution could be addressed? What | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
are your hopes, very briefly? Clearly, the Financial Statement | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
for reform was not just about the Holtham floor and by no reform, it | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
was about securing borrowing powers and ensuring that we have the right | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
to raise capital, to ensure that we can invest in our schools, | :12:46. | :12:52. | |
hospitals, roads and the infrastructure of Wales. Thank you. | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
I'm joined now by Alex Salmond's biographer, David Torrance, Richard | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
Wyn Jones, director of the Wells Government's Centre at Cardiff | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
University, and the former Welsh Secretary Rod Richards. Thank you | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
for joining us. Two developments in Scotland make it harder for the | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
Welsh government is successfully make its case on replacing Barnett | :13:15. | :13:22. | |
with a Leeds-based for Miller? course they do. I am flabbergasted | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
Jane could not give a straight answer. Rhodri Morgan could not get | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
it reviewed because there was a Scottish Prime Minister and a | :13:32. | :13:41. | |
Scottish Chancellor. She was quitting the Holtham report. Reform | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
might mean Wales going up and Scotland coming down a lot in a | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
period in which we are running up to a Scottish referendum on | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
independence. Of course, it is not realistic politics that the UK | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
government is going to do a full- scale reform of Barnet in the run- | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
up to a Scottish referendum. I cannot imagine that Ed Miliband | :14:01. | :14:11. | |
:14:11. | :14:12. | ||
We heard from Bruce Crawford suggesting that Scotland maibgdz a | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
net contribution so it has nothing to apologise for even if it is | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
overfunded, in some views bit Barnett formula. How strong is that | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
argument, do you think? He didn't actually say what figures he was | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
using there. One thing is certain, that the wash Government needs to | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
be alert or even wake up to the fact that once you move to a needs- | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
based formula for Barnet, then the Treasury will put onto the table | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
other needs-based financing of Wales, notably the Welfare State. | :14:44. | :14:53. | |
Wales is a net beneficiary of some �9 billion here. That �9 billion | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
dwarfs the00 million this a needs- based formula would bring. There | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
are great dangers here in going into negotiation was the Treasury. | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
Let's bring David Torrance in. To what extent is there a common | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
agenda between Scotland and Wales now? It's largely window dressing. | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
I was at the First Minister's residence a few weeks ago, when he | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
was with Carwyn Jones and Peter Robinson. They do a happy cross- | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
party show of unity. The only thing that really unifies them is an | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
attack on the Treasury, if you like, and urging the UK Chancellor to go | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
for Plan B on the economy. On everything else there's clearly | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
tension, on corporation tax. Northern Ireland who wants to bring | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
their arrangements into line with the Republic of Ireland, doesn't | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
want Scotland to get it. The SNP have had a long standing | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
Parliamentary association at Westminster with Plaid Cymru. They | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
don't agree on all that much. terms of attitudes, political add | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
tueds in Wales, the idea, the argument that we have heard on | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
different issues, well if Scotland's got it, Wales should | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
have it too. To what extent does that view need reworking now if | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
what's good for Scotland won't necessarily be good for Wales? | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
You're right. That has been the tendency in Welsh politics in | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
recent years. If you read baeb's election manifesto it's fairly | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
clear that they wanted a quiet period after the referendum. They | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
want -- didn't want anything to make Welsh Labour MPs nervous. | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
Because of this amazing result in Scotland, all of these kinds of | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
questions are now on the table. You feel the Welsh Government are | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
trying to respond to all of these initiatives, without any clear | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
sense of where they're trying to go, what their end point, what the | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
desired end game is here. Surely none of these issues should be on | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
the table as far as the Welsh Government is concerned at all. | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
Bearing in mind the yes campaign for the referendum, which was | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
supposedly a tideying up exercise. Now we're taking about borrowing | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
powers, talking about devolving planning powers or energy powers, | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
all the rest of it. None of it does the Welsh Government have any | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
mandate whatsoever, bearing in mind the solemn undertakings they gave | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
in the referendum. It's not simply that the Scottish result has | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
changed the equation, but also recall that the present UK | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
Government has, as part of its coalition agreement, a plan to | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
establish a Calman-like commission in Wales. That was announced before | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
the referendum. It was clear for the yes campaign... You know what, | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
I'm going to bring in David for a final word. I'm not going to ask | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
you to referee that one. Is it inevitable now that the plan | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
outlined by Alex Salmond will keep constitutional issues nearly at the | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
top of the political agenda for the devolves nations around the UK, | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
does it automatically spill over? Undoubtedly. The constitutional | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
question has dominated Scottish politics for the last 40 years. | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
It's going to carry on dominating. Of course the plan for independent, | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
-- independence, though the definition of that is open to | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
question, has ramifications for the United Kingdom. So what does the | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
SNP actually mean by independent? They're talking about | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
reconstituting the United Kingdom, not about splitting Scotland away | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
from it. If there's a two question referendum, it's difficult to see | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
how Alex Salmond will lose. He will, at least, get substantially more | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
powers. On that point, if Scotland were to get full fiscal economy, | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
would that make the case for the replacement of the Barnett formula | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
with something ease tkwror argue, if Scotland is out of the equation? | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
Undoubtedly. The Welsh Government's best bet is trying to pull Wales | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
from Scotland in terms of how territorial funding works around | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
the UK. Clearly there isn't going to be a full scale review of Barnet. | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
Everybody knows that in their hearts. Therefore decoupling is the | :19:09. | :19:17. | |
only way forward. Do you agree? Absolutely. I got the implegs that | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
Jane Heartly is somewhat out of her debt in not recognising what | :19:21. | :19:27. | |
Richard says that you have to decouple Wales. Thank you very much | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
for joining us. There have been cross-wires again between London | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
and Cardiff Bay, this time over whether or not the Welsh Government | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
has decided to adopt enterprise zones. Yesterday the Welsh | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
secretary told MPs that the First Minister had adopted the policy. In | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
fact, Carwyn Jones had only told AMs he was examining the issue. A | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
minor misunderstanding perhaps. But taken against the back drop of | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
accusations of slaps in the face and untruths, is it more evidence | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
of a deteriorating relationship. I asked Vaughan Gething and Guto Bebb | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
what they made of it. It is a concern. I think the issue in terms | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
of enterprise zones was highlighted because of a question I asked in | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
Parliament. Frankly, I appreciate fully that in order to get economic | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
developments going in a Welsh context, we need to make sure that | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
Westminster and Cardiff work in tandem. The fact there is a | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
misunderstanding of this nature is concerning. In terms of the respect | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
agenda, I see no evidence that not in place. It is disappointing that | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
two ministers, from what I gather, have decided not to give evidence | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
to a Welsh Select Committee inquiry into inward investment. It is to be | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
regretted. Nobody would claim that economic development is an issue | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
which is fully devolves. Let me put that to Vaughan Gething. Is there a | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
problem in Cardiff Bay in terms of how the relationship is working | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
with London? I don't think. So these things happen. But the | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
reality is that the Assembly is its own body. It has its own priorities. | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
You have two different governments with different values. There's a | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
Labour Government in Cardiff Bay. You wouldn't expect us to get on | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
and agree with everything that the UK right-wing doe ligs is doing. | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
Enterprise zones are an example where we don't want to follow | :21:20. | :21:27. | |
English policy. We're looking at it to see what best meets the people | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
of Wales. We'll continue to act in a way to support our manifesto. | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
What about some of the language used in recent weeks, a slap in the | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
face to the people of Wales, for example. That's extremely strong | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
language from the First Minister about the behaviour of the | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
Government in London. Yes, I don't make any apologies for that. When | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
you look at that particular issue, you have the same party in Wales | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
saying it's the Assembly's fault. Whilst they know perfectly well it | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
is the UK's Government responsibility. This is windfarms. | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
Yes. The UK recently confirmed they wouldn't devolve responsibility for | :22:04. | :22:11. | |
that. The latest statement made clear to ignore it in the | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
Assembly's policy. Where you have disagreement declare it. That's | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
what you expect of honest politician. You have to be up front | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
about what awe gree on and don't agree on. Is this healthy discourse | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
or is it a deeper problem? appears to me that the Labour | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
Government in Cardiff is intent on not having any discuss -- | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
discussion whatsoever. Leighton Andrews will be giving a | :22:42. | :22:49. | |
speech. You have to compare that was members in Plaid Cymru who can | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
give evidence. I think they understood that cross-border | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
cooperation is beneficial to the people of Wales. Thank you both | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
very much for talking to us. A report into the circumstances | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
which led to two Liberal Democrat AMs being disqualified from the | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
Assembly is in the final stages. It will be circulated to AMs before | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
they vote on whether Aled Roberts and John Dixon can take their seats | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
after a long period in limbo. Whatever the fate of the two, it | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
seems others too face searching questions about their role in this | :23:19. | :23:27. | |
saga. The case of the two Liberal | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
Democrat Assmebly Members. Six weeks on, and the file is still | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
open. Aled Roberts and John Dixon were disqualified less than a | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
fortnight after being elected as regional Assmebly Members. They | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
should have resigned from positions in public bodies before signing | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
their nomination papers as candidates, but failed to do so. | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
The party too has taken some responsibility. We've clearly made | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
mistakes which we shouldn't have made. We should have been more up | :23:57. | :24:03. | |
front in telling our candidates what is required of them. What was | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
described firblly as a technicality ended up sparking a police | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
investigation. Last week the Crown Prosecution Service announced that | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
neither man would be prosecuted. One investigation closed then, but | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
another one is still ongoing. Once it was clear there would be no | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
criminal prosecution, the Assembly standards commissioner resumed his | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
review of the evidence. That's due to report any day in time for an | :24:30. | :24:38. | |
Assembly vote by the middle of next week. Views on this have ebbed and | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
flowed over the past weeks. Now all parties say they will wait to see | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
the report's contents before making their mind on how to vote. | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
going to be putting my feelings, emotions and sympathies aside and | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
will look closely at the report on Monday. I will make sure my | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
colleagues do as well, so that the decision made on Wednesday is not | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
based on personal views, it's a dispassionate view based on the | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
evidence we've got. Is it right to bring them back? If they are | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
brought back, would there be consequences of the Assembly. The | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
fourth Assembly has to remain. not just the two Lib Dems who have | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
had to face up to their mistakes. Add elRoberts' case for readmission | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
to the reAssembly may have been strengthened that some key | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
documents giving guidance to candidates were outs of date. | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
They've apologised and said they've reviewed their processes. For a | :25:39. | :25:46. | |
body charged with setting the starred and for -- standards for | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
elections and for the democratic process, it's embarrassing at the | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
very least. Clearly once this is settled one way or another, I think | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
the Electoral Commission will have to adre those matters and they will | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
have to look at their own procedures and how they advise | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
candidates to ensure that this doesn't happen again. If Aled | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
Roberts and John Dixon aren't re- admitting two other candidates will | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
take the seats. Whatever happens, everyone involved will be relieved | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
when the decision is made and the file finally closed. | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
I'm joined now by the Western Mail Senedd correspondent Matt Withers. | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
Welcome. What's the significance of this statement from the Electoral | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
Commission? It's particularly significant in the case of Aled | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
Roberts. They gave him the wrong information. He sought out the | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
information to find out he was in a legally safe position. Clearly, he | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
was given the wrong information. What the Electoral Commission was | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
saying last week was yes, the wrong information was given, but it's the | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
responsibility of the chand date to check the rules. He did. He checked | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
with them. It's the equivalent of the local authority putting up the | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
wrong speed limit and then clocking somebody and saying it was their | :27:01. | :27:07. | |
fault for not looking. Is the job to ensure they are compliant, which | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
they didn't do? I'm not sure where else specifically in the case of | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
Aled Roberts he could have gone over and above the Electoral | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
Commission. Most people would believe that is the ultimate | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
authority in this air ya. Wow expect the correct information. | :27:24. | :27:33. | |
terms of what happens now, AMs are awaiting a report. How do you think | :27:33. | :27:39. | |
that will affect how people decide to vote later in the week? I think | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
it largely does, specifically in the case of the Labour AMs, they're | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
going to decide this because of the size. If you speak to them off the | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
record they're increasingly saying they will make a decision based on | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
the Garrard Elias report. I get the feeling they're hoping for a report | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
which states that these two men did wrong and that they can use that to | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
go in and vote against returns to the Assembly. I don't expect it to | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
be that unambiguous. We will see them split along party lines as to | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
how they personally feel. Given what you've said about the details | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
of Aled Roberts' case, is it conceivable that one of the men | :28:23. | :28:29. | |
could be reinstated and the other not? It's not out of the question. | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
There's more sympathy for the Aled Roberts. A lot of people say John | :28:34. | :28:43. | |
Dixon, essentially he didn't check the paper work correctly. 9 there's | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
less sympathy for him as somebody who has made an error as opposed to | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
Aled Roberts who has been guided towards an error. How will it go | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
next week? If I were a betting man, these two men shouldn't start | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
booking their trains to Cardiff Bay quite yet. You think that is | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
because, minds have been made up, irrespective of what people are | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
saying about the report? It's different when the Conservatives | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
and Plaid Cymru, who are divided on this, I get the impression there | :29:14. | :29:18. |