East Midlands Election 2017: Where You Live

From terrorism to Brexit, schools to hospitals,

tonight we have a special East Midlands Today

debate on the issues that matter to all of us here.

Welcome to Nottingham, I'm Geeta Pendse, tonight,

a special debate.

We have an audience made up of people who are passionate

about what happens where they live.

We have undecided voters, party activists and people sure

of where their vote is going, or so they say at the moment.

Ready to answer their questions is our panel of East

Midlands politicians, all of whom are candidates

in this election.

We have, for the Conservatives, Nicky Morgan, a former

Education Secretary.

For Labour, Chris Williamson, who was MP for Derby North

from 2010 to 2015.

Kat Boettge is the regional organiser for the Green party

in the East Midlands.

Barry Holliday, a former teacher who is the vice-chair

of the Nottingham Liberal Democrats.

And for Ukip, MEP Roger Helmer, the party's spokesman

on energy and industry.

Let's get started with our first question,

which is from Matthew Williams.

Matthew, what's your question?

My question is, what will parties do to ensure the safety of the public

from terror threats, both foreign and domestic?

Now, we've drawn lots on who will speak first

and in this instance, it is Kat Boettge, what will you do?

We in the Green party, we want to make Britain a caring

and confident Britain.

And that means to work on uniting with others and communities.

I think the dreadful terrorist attacks have reminded

us we are still living in a divided country.

And to single out certain communities will only make people

feel further excluded, which is going to give more risk

having people as terrorists.

We work together with communities and we need to help other countries

also, to achieve peace.

That doesn't mean going there and bombing countries.

It doesn't mean to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia.

Last year, the UK was the second biggest seller

of weapons to Saudi Arabia.

That is absolutely unacceptable...

OK.

..If we want to live in a caring Britain.

OK, we're going to move over to Nicky Morgan.

Nicky Morgan, what do you say?

Clearly, the first duty of any government is to

keep its citizens say.

I think we ought to start with our thoughts being with the victims

of last week's dreadful attack in Manchester and obviously

those who were injured and their families and loved ones

and, the amazing professional services, health services,

who treated all of those.

But as I say, governments are there to keep people safe

and that means both investing at home and abroad.

Of course, it means investing in our police and intelligence services.

It means having a proper counter-extremism policy.

The Prime Minister has talked about, in our manifesto we talk

about having a Counter-Extremism Commissioner.

But it's also about investing in our defence overseas

and the Conservative Party is committed spending 2% on defence,

as required by membership of Nato.

OK, Chris Williamson, what do you make to this?

Well, the first thing, the question was, how do

we keep people safe?

The first thing we do is reverse the swingeing cuts

in our public services.

First of all, what Labour is committed to doing is restoring

the police cuts and putting 10,000 more police officers on the street,

neighbourhood police officers, so they can gather that local

intelligence, which is a very, very important.

An early warning sign, if you like.

We would also make sure, and there was a security experts

We would also make sure, and there was a security expert

speaking on the BBC last week, suggesting the only police force

that has the necessary resources in order to deal

with counterintelligence, is the Metropolitan Police force.

Other constabularies are struggling to keep up.

We've got to make sure we're resourcing the police properly.

But it's not just about resourcing the police, it's also

it's also about resourcing of the public services.

A youth service is a crucially important area, we need to be

winning hearts and minds with people and if we can restore the cuts

in our public services so we can get that interaction with the community,

there is less likelihood of these problems.

And the final thing I would just say, is no more expansionary

foreign wars we have seen, which have been a real problem

and a breeding ground, have led to a breeding ground

for radicalisation and leaving this country with the threat.

OK, Roger Helmer, can I bring you in please?

Thank you.

Kat says we mustn't single out communities.

We don't want to single out communities, we want

to single out terrorists.

What's more, we reject the suggestion from Labour

that the terrorist problems we have are simply a response to foreign

wars, because they started before the foreign wars and they've also

taken place in countries that have not been involved in foreign wars.

Who has said that, Roger?

You just did.

That chap called Jeremy Corbyn.

No he hasn't said that, actually.

Yes he has.

I'm sorry, you are misrepresenting what Jeremy has said.

You just did, Chris.

Chris, can you let Roger respond please?

If I may resume, the important thing to realise is,

the security services tell us they have 3000 people

on a watchlist and 20,000 people, who have, as they say,

come to their attention.

We cannot have these people on the streets.

I was very struck by a report two days ago where an Muslim senior

police officer from the Met, actually said we cannot go

on like this with these people on the streets,

we've got to find a way of taking them off the streets.

I have to say, that's not my party's policy,

but it's an area I strongly believe we need to discuss and look

at and find a way of doing it.

OK.

APPLAUSE.

Barry, over to you, what would the Lib Dems do?

It's interesting that Chris said they were going to reverse the cuts

and bring back 10,000 police officers, neglecting the fact

that the Tories have cut 20,000 police officers.

So not really reversing the cuts, it's merely halfling them.

The Liberal Democrats have committed to spending ?300 million

into additional community policing, which would reverse the courts.

We are also committed to staying in our reciprocal deals

with the EU crime database, which we said just recently, would

leave us more at risk if we left.

We would increase and keep our foreign aid budget of 0.7% of GDP

so we can help people where they need the help to reduce

radicalisation at source.

It works jolly well, doesn't it?

We would give the police the pay rise they deserve,

removing the 1% pay cap so that they feel valued

and we keep the best officers.

We would replace the failed Prevent strategy, which we've

seen is not working, but is merely funding and providing

more division in society.

OK, Barry, last point.

And we would ban arms sales to Saudi Arabia as Kat said.

OK, brilliant.

I'm going to go to some members of the audience

because we've got some hands up.

Over there, a gentleman in the suit and tie.

Roger, no one obviously wants to take away the guilt

of terrorists, they are absolutely individually responsible

for what they've done.

But how can you honestly stand there and said that foreign

intervention in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya,

where the perpetrator of the Manchester attack

was actually in Libya a few days before he committed what he did,

which are breeding grounds for terrorists now,

don't have anything to do at all with the increased terror

threat in this country?

You are lying to people, Roger.

Absolutely not.

I repeat that Isis offences or Islamic terrorist

offences had taken place, it was Al-Qaeda in those days,

have taken place before most of these foreign wars and I also

stress, I mean Isis have just killed 23 Coptic Christians, most

most of whom were children in Egypt.

Are you telling me they are reacting to Coptic Christians

because of the foreign policy of the Coptic Christians?

No, it's absurd, it isn't true.

OK, is there anyone else who would like to make a point?

Yes sir, you with the blue shirt.

The idea that Isis has a foreign policy beyond just killing

people indiscriminately, is kind of silly, to say the least.

I didn't say that Isis had a foreign policy.

You said they killed Coptic Christians and you don't

see a reaction to that.

They killed Coptic Christians because they kill anyone who isn't

of their own twisted ideology.

I don't understand.

So in that case you are saying they are not doing it

because of foreign wars, they are doing it because

of their twisted ideology?

I agree.

I'm going back to the audience because I noticed a gentleman over

here, you had your hand up, what would you like to say?

I think one very important point here is there are 3000 recognised

extremists that are free to roam the streets.

Every time there is such terrorist attack, is that it

he was known to the police.

He was one of these 3000.

I think Roger made a very good point.

I didn't hear that from the others, that we should get these

3000 out of the streets, the recognised extremists,

the people that are actively plotting terrorist acts.

Why are they free?

OK, Barry, what would you say to that because I think

in the manifesto for the Lib Dems, one of the things you say

is you will roll back state surveillance powers.

Correct.

So, what will your approach be?

One thing I would just like to pick up to the Nottingham city chair

of Ukip is that there is a difference between guilty

of a crime and known to the police.

If you are known to the police, it means you are known to the police.

I'm known to the police because I've got a speeding offence,

that doesn't mean I should be taken off the streets and

stopped from driving.

People are taken off the streets when they are guilty,

when they are guilty.

You leave them until they commit the offence,

you wait for the next bomb?

However, our police are struggling because they haven't got the money

because they've been stripped of the money by the Conservatives.

Which is why we've committed to fund them appropriately,

keep the best officers by giving them a pay rise, and put ?3 million

into proper, local policing.

That approach, that knee jerk approach that you've just suggested

Sir, we know from relatively recent history does not work.

We had internment in Ulster and it led to an increase in tension,

it led to an increase in resentment and what we've got to do is start

to win hearts and minds and stop people being radicalised

in the first place.

Not by demonising Islam because Islam is a peace-loving

faith, it is a perversion of Islam that Isil are responsible for.

But you will not succeed if you start interment in this country.

What we need to be doing is properly resourcing,

as I have already said, our public services,

properly resourcing our youth services and actually giving people

hope in this country and if you've got the right

resources for the police and counterintelligence to actually

deal with these problems, you stop the problem from occurring

in the first place.

And the young man that committed that atrocity

in Manchester last week, was, as you say,

known to the police.

And indeed, on the Mrs May's watch, allowed to leave this

country and go to Libya.

Known to the police, this government, is indeed culpable.

We have to move on now, but thank you.

We are going to go to our next question

which is from John Charles Jones, he is a Nottinghamshire farmer.

John Charles, what's your question?

Good evening, panel.

At the moment, just under 40% of EU money goes to agriculture.

What measures would you put in place to safeguard farming

and the environment?

OK, thank you very much.

Now, after security, Brexit was our second most popular

issue amongst the audience.

We are going to put this one first to Chris Williamson.

Very clearly what we need to make sure is that the beneficial EU

regulations that have protected our communities

and given rights and so on to the communities in terms of consumer

rights and supporting our farmers,

need to be retained.

What I'm very fearful of is a Conservative victory on June

the 8th and then Britain will be turned into a European

deregulated offshore island, which will be simply a plaything

for European oligarchs and faceless corporations.

I really fear for the future of farmers and indeed, all of us,

if we have Theresa May at the helm negotiating a Brexit

deal because she said, she is prepared to walk away with no

deal at all.

And your party backed it.

No we didn't, not walking away with no deal, no we did not.

I think it is really crucial therefore, and we have said

this in our manifesto, that the Brexit we will negotiate

will make sure that we protect all those beneficial elements

from our membership of the European Union.

One of those key things is making sure we are protecting our farmers

so they can continue to thrive.

I'm going to go to Nicky Morgan next.

As the gentleman said, 40% of EU money goes to agriculture,

how will you safeguard farming given the amount you receive from the EU?

I think you raise a very important issue and this is one of the big

challenges facing this country, clearly over the next couple

of years is negotiating our exit from the EU.

I was somebody who campaigned to remain, but I have to accept

the result from last year, we are leaving.

In 11 days after the election, those Brexit negotiations start.

I am afraid, I cannot imagine, in fact I don't even want to think

about Jeremy Corbyn leading a team of UK negotiated into

about Jeremy Corbyn leading a team of UK negotiators

into the room to stop that.

into the room to start that.

It will be truly terrifying for this country and for the farmers.

Theresa May is the person who can negotiate.

We've already said that we will safeguard the amounts we paid

to farmers for the next few years while those negotiations

are continuing.

Two years...

Well, that's because the negotiations are going

to last for two years.

Every conversation I've had with the Prime Minister she has

talked about wanting an negotiated agreement, a deal with the EU

and she has also been very clear the farmers and farming and rural

communities are a critical part of getting that right.

I think there is only one team who can lead those Brexit

negotiations and get the right deal for this country.

Roger Helmer, can I bring you in, what more would you do?

Can I just briefly respond to this idea of walking away with no deal.

There's no question of walking away with no deal.

The worst case, if you like is WTO terms, Britain trades

with America on WTO terms.

Most countries around the world trade with each other on WTO terms.

It's not as good as having a free-trade deal, but it isn't bad.

I want to make that point.

On farming, we place a very high value on farming.

We are concerned about the issue of food security.

We are concerned about the balance of payments of relying too

much on imported food.

A lot of people think the European Union is very

generous with farmers, but if you look at the statistics

from around the world, you find they are only sort

of in the middle of the range in terms of the percentage of GDP

that goes into farm subsidies.

Some other areas have higher levels, some have lower.

Certainly, you cannot ask British farmers to compete in world markets

unless they are supported are probably the same level

as everybody else's so I think the Conservatives are right,

in this, if nothing else, they are maintaining those

payments for two years, I think they should do it

for longer than that.

The other point is, we want to carry over the regulations,

says our Labour candidate.

Well, the whole point of leaving is we have regulations that

are appropriate to our country.

When I talk to farmers, which I do quite a lot,

they say they welcome the money from the European Union,

but they are up to here with bureaucracy and people

going round with clipboards and cross compliance and all those

other things they have to worry about.

We need a simpler and more straightforward system and Brexit

will enable us to deliver that.

Kat Boettge, what do you make of that?

Less bureaucracy, it will be clearer and farmers will benefit?

It's ridiculous to claim there will be less bureaucracy.

When you trade with America at the moment you have a lot

of bureaucracy because you are not in a trade agreement,

you haven't got the single market.

Bringing it back, my boyfriend is a farmer, I feel quite

close to that subject.

The Green Party want to offer a second referendum

on the negotiated deal, including the option of staying in,

so that's the first thing.

I feel very passionate about it as an EU migrant myself.

This is very important, Europe is for me.

Secondly, there are different issues farmers are facing,

including supermarkets working like cartels pushing down prices.

My boyfriend has got currently, a big lorry full of carrots,

which he paid ?50 because supermarkets weren't

going to take them.

So we need to tackle certain issues farmers are having at the moment

that go beyond the EU anyway.

Also, EU funding has been neglecting smaller farmers,

medium-size farmers as well as tenant farmers.

Those are areas we need to be looking at and working

to make farming pay.

And finally, we would be replacing EU legislation and funding,

absolutely necessary.

Although there are some changes that are necessary, as I said,

because there are problems.

OK, I'm going to go to the audience before we go to the rest

of the panel because I've had a few hands up.

Sir, what do you say?

I think the funding we pay into the European Union,

the billions of pounds we've paid out now, we're paying it to them

and they are giving us money back for our farmers.

We'll have our own money to subsidise and help our farmers

and I would be very concerned if if we end up with the situation

after two years where we negotiate farmers' benefits away in order

to get something else from the European Union.

We need to stand on our own feet, supports our own farmers and we need

We need to stand on our own feet, support our own farmers and we need

to make sure that the money that we've given to Europe at the moment,

comes back to continue funding our farmers.

Barry Holliday, what will the Liberal Democrats do?

There's a couple of points I want to pick up before I get

back to John's question.

Don't worry, John, I have got a good answer for you.

Kat says that we are going to have a second referendum,

actually if we are keeping count, it is the third.

We had one in the 70s when we joined.

It's not a second referendum, because it's not a referendum

with the same question.

It's a referendum on the deal, which it why it's

Liberal Democrats policy.

To have a referendum on the deal.

Duncan Davis himself, the Brexit secretary from the Tories

used to recommend...

David Davis.

Is it David?

I do apologise, I don't keep track of the Tories.

A double referendum strategy where you have warned to leave

and then one on the deal.

We want that as well and we will campaign to remain

because that's the best thing for farmers, keep 40% of that money

and to support our farmers with access to the single market

as a full member of the European Union.

So Barry Holliday, your answer is essentially to remain,

but given that we are leaving...

I campaigned for Remain, I haven't changed my opinion.

OK, is there anyone else in the audience before I go

to the final panellist?

Yes sir, you got the grey shirt.

Yes.

I want to say to Roger Helmer, you've just said we trade

with America on WTO terms, Soley WTO terms.

That's not true.

That's factually, completely untrue.

There are dozens of trade agreements between the EU and America,

the EU and China, which go well beyond WTO terms.

There is no EU America trade agreements.

There is no free trading...

Has been negotiation but it's failing.

There are dozens of trade agreements, you can see this

on the European treaty database.

CROSSTALK.

Have you ever looked at any sources for what you are saying

or are you just saying things that are rhetoric?

It is true there are individual agreements in 12

individual product areas...

Which is not what you said earlier, is it?

But the broad position is that it's WTO terms and the broad position

for most countries trading with most other countries is WTO terms.

Can I just add, this idea of a second referendum

and we might stay in, firstly under the terms

of the Lisbon Treaty, under which our exit

is being negotiated, there is no option for staying in.

They have already said...

They've given opinions, but they haven't changed the law.

The other thing is, if you announce in advance there is going to be

a second referendum, you utterly changed the basis,

the dynamics of the negotiations.

Corbyn has said, Corbyn has said, we won't leave without a deal.

That's giving a veto to Brussels.

All they have to do is say no deal...

Perhaps we could change Article 50 if the MEPs like yourself actually

turned up there and help change EU law?

Are you suggesting I don't attend and change EU law?

I am afraid I don't know your voting record, Roger,

so I couldn't possibly say.

Please go away and check it.

Right, I need to return back to the audience.

I'd like to go back to John Charles Jones

who asked the question.

Can I ask you, what are your fears?

You are a farmer, you are in Nottinghamshire,

why did you ask this question?

One of the key responsibilities of any government is to provide

food for its population.

With Brexit, we need a very clear policy as to where our income

is going to come from.

Thank you very much.

And our next question is from Lisa Clark,

who is a nurse here in Nottingham.

Lisa.

There is a recruitment crisis in nursing.

How would your party ensure there are enough nurses

to ensure there is care, given the intended end to student

nurse bursaries, wage freezes and reducing immigration?

OK, thank you, Lisa.

The NHS was clearly very high on the list for all

we believe we should be spending less on foreign aid,

so there are several billion more there.

We believe we should cut vanity projects like HS2,

which was said to cost 50 billion, but is more likely

to cost 80 billion.

We're not against investment in transport infrastructure,

but we think that's purely a vanity project and we don't

think it should go ahead.

Then we will find the additional funding to do these things,

which we all agree, we ought to do.

OK, Roger.

APPLAUSE .

I am just going to go back to Lisa for a second, what do you make

of what Roger is saying?

Well, as a nurse, and I think as any NHS employee is just a little bit

sick of hearing of all this money that's going to come back

from Europe, what was it, ?350 billion on the side of a bus?

We all knew at the time that was a lie and it was clear

it was a lie on the day that the result came through.

It was a gross figure, not a net figure, but the fact is

when we leave the European Union...

It's neither.

When we leave the European Union, there will be...

It wasn't our bus, by the way.

Let me stress it wasn't our bus.

And Nigel Farage has repudiated it.

But there will be substantial funding available after Brexit.

Obviously not before Brexit.

And by the way, if the Conservatives have the courage to stand up

against this proposed divorce Bill, which is the most outrageous

thing to come out of Brussels for a long time.

Why don't we bring Nicky Morgan in, but on the question that Lisa asked,

which was how are you going to help nurses, provide care,

given the intended end of student nurse bursaries,

wage freezes and reducing immigration?

Well, I have to say, if you have to put a caveat

on what's on the side of a bus, that tells you that that campaign

slogan is not worth the bus it that it's written on.

In terms of supporting the NHS, we have been very clear and next

?8 billion invested over the next five years.

In terms of the student bursaries, what was happening, it was putting

a cap on the number of young people and others who were able

to afford and to go and to be trained as nurses.

In terms of prioritising NHS employees, and particularly nurses

in terms of immigration discussions with the European Union

and obviously wage freezes, it has been very difficult,

we absolutely understand that.

But at the end of the day, with out a strong economy and that

means getting our economy back in balance in this country,

we will not be able to continue to afford anything, including

the critical investment in the NHS.

I will go to the three other panellists, but I just want to,

given the Conservatives have been in power, Lisa, what do you make

of what Nicky Morgan has just said?

I am absolutely livid, to be honest with you.

When I train 25 years ago as a nurse, I trained alongside

nurses that were working mums, who were coming back

into a profession, who wanted to train in a profession,

who had really important caring experience and were coming

into the profession, only because they had

the support of a bursary which was means tested,

which also supported their dependents.

That's gone.

That's a huge resource to the country, people coming

into a caring profession with that experience.

The public sector pay cuts, I can't invest in the economy

because I have no disposable income any more.

I used to have money to be able to go to the cinema

with my children, money to be able to go and eat out.

I don't have that money any more, I'd barely break even and I've been

a nurse for 25 years.

What's it like for anybody coming into the profession?

I can barely afford my job any longer.

OK, Nicky, I want you to respond to that briefly.

APPLAUSE .

Is it fair that Lisa and nurses who have been working for several

decades now can barely make ends meet?

Of course that's not what we want as a country,

but neither do we want...

But you've done it!

Neither do we want the continued state where people, for each

person in this country, there are tens of thousands

of pounds worth of debt, which we are paying off.

When we were in the last Parliament, we were spending ?48 billion a year

interest on the debt burden left to us by the last Labour government.

That's almost as much as the whole education budget in this country.

You increase the debt burden.

We are almost at the stage, we have reduced the deficit by two thirds...

Let's bring in Chris Williamson.

You must understand on the bursaries, it cannot be right

that actually we are not able to afford, as a country,

we are having an artificial cap on the number of people being able

to go into training as nurses because we cannot otherwise afford

the bursaries in this country.

Recruitment has reduced by 25% since you brought in that rule.

25%.

I'm going to bring in Chris Williamson in now for Labour.

What do you say?

Nicky is talking absolute nonsense.

We are the fifth or sixth richest economy in the world,

depending how you measure it.

It is about political priorities and political choices.

Just remember, in 1945, this country was broke,

debt to GDP ratio was 250%.

Winston Churchill told Clem Attlee, don't go making any outlandish

promises because we are broke, we can't afford it.

But what did Clem Attlee do and the Labour government?

We built the National Health Service, we created the welfare

state, we built a million homes and we secured full employment.

It's about political priorities.

For Nicky to say we need a strong economy, they are not

succeeding, are they?

She said they were getting their debt down, they are not

getting the debt down.

They've added three quarters of a billion pound

to the national debt.

So clearly this austerity agenda is not working.

We would restore...

Chris Williamson can we bring in another panellist now?

Thank you.

Thank you so much for your question and your statement and thank

you for your service.

Well done, well done for sticking to it even though the Conservative

government have absolutely crippled our country with austerity.

It is time to stop this now.

People need to be paid a fair wage and the Green party

is absolutely promising you that we would

make your job better.

We would actually front the NHS appropriately,

the NHS is the most underfunded I think alongside other

countries in the EU.

We need to pay, if we want to have a proper public service,

we need to be able to pay for it.

And the NHS, we all feel very proud of it and it costs money.

So let's pay some money and the Green party is absolutely

committed to stop austerity and pay for your job and service.

Barry Holliday?

Lisa, again, just to echo what Kat said, thank you very

much for sticking at it, it's nurses like you that keep most

of us alive at one point or another.

I myself have had to go into Queens' emergency and rely on nurses

like yourself and thank you.

Because it really is appreciated.

And thank you to everybody else for recognising what a great thing

the NHS is and I'm really, really proud to say that don't

forget it was the Liberals that invented it, despite Labour's

rewrite of history.

It was William Beveridge who came in with the idea and it's our NHS.

We will fight tooth and built to protect it, which is why we've

got a very clear policy.

1p in the pound on income tax for everybody in the country

because we all benefit.

Now that's only 45% of all earners because most people have been taken

out of paying income tax when the Liberal Democrats

were in government.

And that money would put ?24 million just into Nottingham city alone

and that money is ring fenced, it cannot go anywhere

else, it is NHS money.

OK, Barry, one final point.

And part of that would be removing the 1% pay cap,

so you get a decent pay, because you deserve it.

I'm going to go to the audience, we've got quite a few hands up.

The gentleman over there, you've had your hand up

for a very long time.

What would you like to say?

For example, how would we start targeting that money because I work

as a street pastor on the streets of Nottingham on Fridays

and Saturday nights.

If I have someone who is either not breathing, or is,

I do know, bleeding out, I can expect to wait

at least two hours to get an ambulance and in some cases,

I've had to carry someone towards QMC.

Some public services are particularly underfunded such as

the East Midlands Ambulance Service, which is obviously a big priority

for us here in the East Midlands.

Is there a strategy of just saying no, the NHS is not well funded

enough and we need to find more taxation, or are we just going to...

Where is this money going to come from?

Thank you, Nicky, how would you respond to that?

I think it's a very good question, because it's all very well

for various parties to stand here and promise extra money.

I have to say, Chris's Labour Party believe that clearly

there is a magic money tree because it's money for this,

money for nationalisation, money for this service...

Nationalisation is a free ticket.

Nationalisation is not a free ticket.

Of course it is.

The services have to be bought.

But you have asked a very good question, which actually

the prioritisation in the NHS and I agree with you.

All East Midlands MPs have been campaigning and talking

to the Department of Health about the state of the East

Midlands Ambulance Services.

There is something called the sustainability and

transformation plans led by the chief executive

of NHS England...

It's to close, it's too close health services.

It's to close, it's to close health services.

It's not about closing, it's about saying actually, how does

the NHS want to organise services?

Where are service best delivered?

Making decisions happen within the NHS.

And that's got to be right because our health care needs

are evolving as a population all the time.

And to think we can have the model that worked in the 1940s working

in the 21st century is simply not going to be tenable.

We will invest the 30 billion the National Health Service needs

and that's a very clear manifesto commitment in this document.

Where is the money coming from?

We have costed this...

Not making tax cuts for millionaires, for a start.

What would you like to say?

I'm 93 years of age and I've seen life without the NHS and with it.

And probably due to the NHS, that's why I'm 93 years of age.

It's an excellent service.

But one of the things that has happened, although costs have to be

increased because of technology, I think we've allowed,

or the politicians have allowed for political reasons,

to go away from what the NHS was formed for.

For example, it was not intended to be an international NHS.

It was not intended to replace police cells self drunken people

It was not intended to replace police cells for self-drunken people

on a Saturday night.

That cost the NHS ?2.9 billion last year.

They've always been short of birds, money, doctors, nurses

They've always been short of beds, money, doctors, nurses

and the politicians' answer, throw money at it.

And the way these guys are going on, I haven't heard any constructive

arguments from them that tells us how they are going to create wealth.

They are all about spending money and it's our money.

APPLAUSE.

I think we'll move on to the next question because it sort

of connected to what you are saying about spending money

and the economy.

Our next question is from the chair of the National Asian

business Association.

What is your question?

Good evening, panel.

In terms of prosperity of the East Midlands,

are we falling behind the northern powerhouse?

Is there a case for an East Midlands mayor?

What are the political parties going to do about it?

Thank you very much.

Clearly, this is the nuts and bolts of an election.

Jobs, how we bring prosperity to the East Midlands.

Barry Holliday, what would you say to this?

I think you're right, I think the East Midlands is lagging behind.

We've seen recently surveys saying of the national wage,

those regions that fall below the national wage, the East Midlands

falls below is the most.

It is an absolute disgrace.

The East Midlands should be the pride of the nation.

It certainly is for me, I've never lived anywhere else other

than the East Midlands and I love it here.

But you're right.

I'm not sure a Midlands mayor is the answer because the previous

reincarnation if you are looking at other projects like

the North Army Alliance and so on, the money that came with the mayor

had so many strings it wasn't really money you could spend as you wanted

and the way that the region needs.

It was money they could spend the way the Tories wanted

you to spend, so you could take the blame for getting

it wrong for them.

What I would say is we do need investment.

One of those things we need to do, we need to save jobs.

We need to keep those people are employed,

We need to keep those people employed,

we need to not cut corporation tax down as far as the Conservatives

would do it and not put it up as far as Labour would.

We would reverse the current tax and keep it at 20% so people have

got the ability to run a good business and make money

at it and employ people, but we need good skills

and we need good education.

We need something like life skills, mandatory careers education

at school so people can write a good CV and get a good job.

OK, I'd like to bring in another panellist in to respond

to what Barry has just said.

Nicky Morgan, he is saying you are not doing the right things

when it comes to corporation tax?

We are doing the right thing, which is actually getting it down.

The gentleman talks about people being able to keep more

of their own money and that's the same with businesses

because they reinvest in their businesses.

What we want to see is businesses employing more people

and that is what we are seeing.

I think we are remarkably successful here in the East Midlands

in terms of driving growth.

We are one of the most successful regions in the country.

We've got the fledgling Midlands engine to rival

the northern powerhouse.

And that's obviously got a lot more work to do to it

to drive regional growth.

I do agree there's more we can do in raising aspirations in schools

and about careers services as well.

We have a highly successful manufacturing industry

in this country.

We've got two enterprise zones opening, one open in Leicestershire

already and another one coming to Loughborough and the lustre.

In terms of the East Midlands mayor, I don't know, perhaps Chris might

want to apply for it?

He is applied to be Oldham Labour MP, Derbyshire PCC, so he's

onto his third job application for next week.

So maybe that's something, but I have to say I'm not convinced

about having a regional mayor, we will see what happens

I'm never convinced that perhaps another tier

of government is a good thing.

I think we've got good council leaders and others

and businesspeople to drive regional growth.

And going to move this onto Chris.

What do you make of that, do we have a booming economy

in the East Midlands?

We need to do a hell of a lot more, I have to say.

But one of the things we've committed to doing is having

a constitutional convention, to look at how we organised our

democratic structures and whether there are better ways.

What we have committed to doing is investing in the economy,

making the economy work for ordinary people.

Far too much of the wealth of this nation is concentrated in a tiny

percentage of Nicky's friends in the Conservative Party

and their supporters.

We want the economy in this fifth or sixth biggest

economy in the world, to actually be shared

around a little bit more.

Let's create some decent jobs, and what we said is will create

a national investment bank, that will invest in infrastructure,

that will create jobs which will obviously help to grow

the economy and put money in people's pockets.

We've said will build a million homes, half a million

of which will be council houses and also create economic growth

and tackle the huge social need.

And we said we will invest in things like the Digital economy

and renewable energy, good green growth, as it were.

I'm just going to go to the audience because we've got a few hands up.

The gentleman there with the blue shirt, what would you like to say?

What are you doing to encourage young entrepreneurs like myself,

not only start-up or to grow, because I'm looking

to employ my first employee and looking around currently,

there is nothing to sort of support me in that

transition from home office to commercial office.

Roger, would you help him and how?

That's a good question and not one but I have a planned answer for.

But, what we need of course is to get the economy of the country

and of the East Midlands motoring.

We do that, not as the Conservatives would do by having

an industrial strategy.

I love the comment I heard from a politician some time ago

who said we don't need to teach the grass to grow, we just

want to get the rocks off the lawn.

What you will find if you are starting a new business,

is that at every turn and there is bureaucracy,

there are regulations, it is just a minefield of complexity.

We have to get that simpler and Brexit gives us the opportunity.

I'm not saying and please don't misreport me, I'm not saying you can

run a modern economy without regulation,

of course you can't.

But I think the general consensus of the businesses I talk to is,

we have far too much regulation.

Can I bring Kat Boettge in, what do you make of that?

First of all, our Green party manifesto is very much

geared to young people, lowering the voting age

and supporting young people, increasing the minimum wage

for young people, stopping housing benefits, for example,

not being able to apply until you are a certain age.

But coming back to the economy, we need to face that we are living

at a time where we are facing climate change.

This is not only a challenge but it also gives us an opportunity.

The Green party have calculated we would create 1 million jobs

by transitioning to a green economy.

That means investing in sustainable energy,

investing in insulating homes.

These are local jobs.

We know solar energy worldwide produces more jobs than the entire

fossil fuel industry does.

These are local jobs, increasing the local

economy and this could make the East Midlands great again.

I'm going to go back to the gentleman with the blue shirt

who first made the comment.

Can you tell me, what are the challenges you want

politicians to help you with?

It's just knowing what support is there?

I know there's loads of grants, but it's finding

which one can I apply for?

The new one we are proposing, which is directly aimed

at entrepreneur start-ups, which would pay your living costs

for the first six months of you starting your own business.

There's your answer.

Not going to dance around it like everybody else does,

we've got it in our manifesto.

An entrepreneur start-up front for the first six months.

An entrepreneur start-up fund for the first six months.

OK, can I go to the gentleman with the purple shirt,

what would you like to say?

Roger talked about the somewhat complicated environment in

which business sometimes operates.

It seems to me that one aspect of this complexity is the absolute

chaos that is the structure of local government.

We've got an mayor in Mansfield, we've got another one in Manchester

for Greater Manchester, we've got one of the Birmingham.

for Greater Manchester, we've got one for Birmingham.

Not for Derby and Nottingham.

We've got a devolution deal that on and then it's off and then it's

on and then it's off again.

It's absolute chaos.

I think whoever is the next government really needs to actually

get a grip on the whole issue of the structure of local government

and stop all this wasted time and energy in all of these deals

that are on and then off again.

I'm going to put that to Nicky Morgan, what would you say to that?

Devolution is very important.

It's very important that local areas are given responsibility,

have responsibility for driving their own economic growth.

But I think you make a valid point about who are

the best people to do that.

I think the best people to do that are the local businesses and that

includes our universities and colleges and others as well.

Not necessarily tiers of local government.

And I think one of the things that has worked really well have been our

local enterprise partnerships.

I was going to say to the gentleman over there,

that obviously the LEPs, in particular, can advise on grants.

And of course, the other thing has been the National Insurance

tax breaks on taking on your first employee.

Because it is a big step to take on the responsibility for paying

the wages of somebody else.

So that's something else that has made a big difference.

But it is very much about having local people taking responsibility,

not being dictated to by government.

I think that is the right way to go.

I just want to go back to your experience, you work

with lots of Asian businesses in Leicestershire, what do

you find the big problems, what do you feel isn't being done,

what do you want your to do?

what do you want your politicians to do?

I think generally I would like to see the next government

and the opposition get a grip on promoting the region.

We are internationally lagging behind.

Yes, there is business breaks the university,

getting money for blue sky research and everything else, but they must

benefit the region as well.

It is more connected internationally, as far

as universities are concerned, rather than the local people.

What I would like to see is all the politicians

and the opposition get to grips in promoting the East Midlands

in a much more cohesive way.

OK, more promotion for the East Midlands.

Can I just quickly respond to that briefly because I agree.

I think if we've got fiscal devolution whereby you got greater

control over spending.

Remember, public sector organisations are responsible

for ?200 billion worth of procurement every single year.

So if we do that in a more strategic way, if we do it in a more

democratic way at a local level, because what we've seen over

the last seven years is a development of blame for cuts

from this government.

What we want to see is a situation where we empower local government,

but we also give them the resources in order to be able to make that

and if it's working in partnership with the community and business.

Thank you, Chris.

I'm going to go to the lady over their with the black top.

What would you like to say?

I agree with fiscal devolution but there are 5.5 million small

businesses currently in the UK.

Two thirds of those receive late payments last year,

averaging around ?6,000 and lots of those were

from larger businesses.

That's one hell of an overdraft, as far as I'm concerned,

so I'd like to know what the panel would do to tackle late payments?

It's a very clear commitment in Labour's manifesto.

We would absolutely clamp-down on that.

30 days would be the maximum time that a small business

would have to wait.

If big corporations fail to meet the target, they will be

subject to penalties.

I'd like all the panellists to answer this, actually.

Roger, what would you do?

It's worth noting, it's not only big corporations,

it also all that local government procurement, much of

which doesn't pay up on time.

But for once, I'm going to broadly agree with our Labour colleague

because certainly from my point of view and my party's point

of view, we would support legislation to ensure

there was an obligation on large companies and also the public

sector to pay promptly.

OK, Barry Holliday?

I suspect this is probably one of the first and only times

I will ever agree with someone from Ukip, but actually,

he's not far wrong.

If it is a problem, and we know it is, there is no

monopoly on good idea.

David Steele used to say that an awful lot.

There is no monopoly on a good idea and if someone has one,

we should respect that.

So you agree?

You agree with that?

Kat Boettge, what would you do?

Similar to my colleagues here, I completely agree, this

is a problem that needs to be sorted, particularly small

and medium-sized businesses have been struggling a lot and we need

to really make sure because these are the forces in the local economy

that are driving forward and we appreciate it

and we need to support them.

OK, a rare moment of agreement from four of our panellists,

Nicky, what do you say?

Of course the principle is right and the point made

about local government paying up, with or without

legislation in place.

This is one of the examples where there is a limit,

you can have all the legislation you want, all the stuff in statutes,

but if people still aren't paying and still flouting the law,

then actually you've got to get into enforcement,

changing cultures and changing hearts and minds to make it simply

an acceptable to pay small businesses later.

unacceptable to pay small businesses later.

You are supporting Labour's policy then?

I'm supporting real action and that's not going to come

from the Labour Party manifesto.

We are going to have to leave it tonight,

that's all from us this evening, but don't worry you can continue

the debate on Twitter.

Thank you to everyone here, to our audience, to our panel

and from Nottingham, good night.

APPLAUSE

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