Browse content similar to London. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
home with my parents. Not enough funding for the NHS. | :00:29. | :00:52. | |
Here we are with a panel of leading London politicians and an | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
enthusiastic audience, champing at the bit. Let's go to our first | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
question, from Qasim Majid. Unfortunately, over the last few | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
weeks and months, we have seen some disgusting attacks, in London and in | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
Manchester, which is where I am originally from. This has left me | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
and I'm sure many other individuals in the audience very scared about | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
the prospect of further attacks. Therefore I would like to ask today | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
what policies the parties will be introducing to prevent such attacks | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
both in London and across the UK. Diane Abbott, we will start with you | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
- what do you do? I think, as you said, the most important thing is to | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
keep people safe. And one of the policies that in our manifesto is to | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
recruit 10,000 more police officers. And we're doing that because | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
actually, under Theresa May's watch, we have lost 20,000 police officers. | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
Although you might say, what have police officers got to do with | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
fighting terrorism, I think community policing can help in | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
getting that information. How many of those 10,000 are for London? I'm | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
not sure, that will be a matter... The amount people have in their | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
police area will be a matter for the chief constable and for the PCC. | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
Would London get half of them, say debutants a matter for the chief | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
constables. I just want to go forward and talk about the | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
Government's anti-terrorism strategies, and I wants to talk | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
about Prevent. Can we stick on police numbers just for now, before | :02:36. | :02:45. | |
we go back to Prevent? We are very clear that we're going to protect | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
the police budget and actually, numbers in London have not gone | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
down. We are putting more people into MI5, MI6, GCHQ. They have gone | :02:52. | :03:00. | |
down since 2010? No. Jane Corbyn has voted against every single piece of | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
anti-terror legislation, under this government and previous governance. | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
Diane herself has previously suggested that we should abolish | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
MI5. It gives us a very clear choice between Theresa May and Jeremy | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
Corbyn. Go on, Diane. I'm not sure whether Gavin was in the department | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
at the time, but much of that legislation which Jeremy and I voted | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
against was also voted against by the Conservative Party. Theresa May | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
voted against the 2005 adventure of Terrorism Act, she voted against ID | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
cards and she voted against control orders without proper court | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
supervision. The point is this - it is easy to list legislation which | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
people voted on, but that legislation which myself and a lot | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
of the Tory party voted against we felt was counter-productive, | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
learning the lessons from Northern Ireland. We voted for... There was | :03:56. | :04:06. | |
an attempt to have 90 day detention, 42 days without detention, we voted | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
against that. But we voted for 28 days. Let's go back to the question | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
from Qasim Majid - how do we stop what happened in Manchester | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
happening again? You need very strong security services, they have | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
been effective in the past, large numbers of potential attacks have | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
been foiled and we need to give them our full support. It is worth | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
remembering that the former head of MI6 and the head of MI5 warned | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
before these outrages the risk if we left Europe of the break up of | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
sharing intelligence with other European countries, because this is | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
not just a British problem. So we have to have that degree of | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
compression. You know full well that that kind of intelligence is always | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
shared as a matter of course anyway, it is nothing to do with Brexit, | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
adding rank sum into this is disgraceful. I brought it in because | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
the two retiring heads, who were there when I was a member of the | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
Cabinet, went out their way to make this warning, and we should be | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
listening. This is outrageous. The question was, how can we stop people | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
feeling scared? When you see what happened in do, and what happened in | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
Westminster, all of us travelling on the tube every day, it is really | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
hard not to feel scared. We need to reassure people that everything is | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
being done. What I think is that the police need more resources, but it | :05:35. | :05:36. | |
is really important where those resources go. Police have been | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
warning about cutbacks, they say specifically that the best | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
intelligence comes from communities, not from things like blanket | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
surveillance, but from police firmly rooted in communities who can be | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
called upon. And the Prevent strategy doesn't currently do that. | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
Qasim Majid, you asked the question, do you find any of this convincing? | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
I would just like to talk about police numbers. I am no expert on | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
this, but the two commissioners came out in the wake of the Manchester | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
attack and said that this was not due to a lack of resources. So I | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
think it is incorrect to make a political message over the misery of | :06:20. | :06:30. | |
our people. 2000 police officers in London -- 22,000, down from 33,020 | :06:31. | :06:37. | |
ten? We have had cutbacks, we used to have three officers and three PCO | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
is in every council ward. Recently the mayor has doubled it, but we | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
only had one. I am in local counsellor and I know the lack of | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
contact which we had. The person was changing every six months. Police | :06:50. | :06:57. | |
numbers in London have held up and up to 2020, the spending review | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
protects police funding. Labour's position, Andy Burnham was arguing | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
for a 10% reduction. So, it is very important that we retain police | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
resources. You need more than that. We have budgeted for 20,000 | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
policemen. You might like to write these figures down, Diane, that will | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
cost about 1.3 billion. It is not about that, we are talking about | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
23,000 jihadists in Britain who have been under surveillance now or in | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
the past. People are amazed that, for example, the attacker in | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
Manchester can go out of the country and then come back in and have an | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
attack. There is obviously a lack of will. We have got to have a proper | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
Border Force, with 4000 more people. I don't know about 23,000, but there | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
has been talk of 500 active investigations, 6000 people who | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
should be on the list. What do you think about how to deal with those | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
people? I want to know when we're going to stop selling arms to Saudi | :07:57. | :07:57. | |
Arabia. And exporting... All around the | :07:58. | :08:09. | |
world. I think that is our biggest issue. President Trump is curtsying | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
to the Saudis and we are America's biggest allies, they're laughing at | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
us. This gentleman here. What do you think should be done? Remember, we | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
are talking about measures to stop terrorism which go beyond police | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
numbers? Going beyond police numbers, this, was a Libyan. I am | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
Libyan heritage as well, and I can tell you there are real problems to | :08:38. | :08:46. | |
do with foreign policy. 2011, when there was a bombing campaign to get | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
rid of Gaddafi, it was great in one sense, Gaddafi was removed. But it | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
left a chaotic country, and thereafter, we had basically Isis | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
growing up, jihadi groups, the country was left in tatters. And | :09:02. | :09:03. | |
that was due to the Conservative Party. Does your party accept that | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
some of the things that were done, the bobbing campaign in Libya, for | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
example, might be to blame, in the background? I think these foreign | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
policy questions those real difficulties, because we intervened | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
because Gaddafi was about to murder thousands of innocent civilians. We | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
see what the Assad regime is doing in Syria, and we stood by and | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
allowed it to happen. There is a real challenge about what we do to | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
reconstruct afterwards, and I would accept the point made by the | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
gentleman. Jeremy Corbyn was making this point the other day... What he | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
did not acknowledge, Afghanistan, if we had not intervened me is, we | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
would have allowed a terrorist organisation free space. The way you | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
don't make people safer is by Stinnett icing entire communities. | :10:00. | :10:07. | |
That is not... -- stigmatising entire communities. On the question | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
of some of our international interventions, like Iraq, | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
Afghanistan, Libya and the terror we see on our streets, of course, the | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
people responsible for the terrorism are murderers, violent jihadists. | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
But there is no question that the war in Iraq, the intervention in | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
Libya, left that region a more unstable place, and literally left | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
failed states in which jihadis could organise. I'm not saying this, Eliza | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
Manning, former head of MI5, said it. I did not vote for it, as you | :10:44. | :10:53. | |
may know. The fact is, can you tell me, in Sweden, there was a terrible | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
attack recently - what was it about Swedish foreign policy that brought | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
that attacked on them? Vince Cable? There is a massive difference | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
between looking for explanations and foreign policy might be part of | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
that, and avoiding excuses and justification. And there is | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
absolutely no justification or excuse for resorting to terrorism, | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
whatever the underlying cause. That distinction must be made clear. So, | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
you don't think about the wars in the background, it is just a | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
policing matter? I voted against the Iraq war, and one reason I did so | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
was that we were warned that it would stir up instability and to | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
promote terrorism. People like Boris Johnson acknowledged that publicly. | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
To what extent do you say, it was not just that person, it was | :11:45. | :11:46. | |
something else going on behind them? There's no question that the flames, | :11:47. | :11:57. | |
we need to be investigating and condemning the people who do the | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
crimes, but the region is a mess and we have to take our responsibility | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
for the mess we caused. Like Jeremy Corbyn, like Vince Cable, stop the | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
war marches, it's something we put in leaflets in 2003, if you do this, | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
you create instability in the region and room for jihadists, which has | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
happened. When you talk about this, it is excusing them in a way, even | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
though it is done nicely. These jihadists people in Isis, they threw | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
guys like me, gay guys, office buildings. What has got to do with | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
foreign policy way they treat women? Nothing. I want to move onto another | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
subject. We will move on the way they treat women? Nothing. I want to | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
move onto another subject. We will move onto housing if we can. I know | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
what we've just been discussing. Charlie Crossfield? I am currently | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
spending a large amount of my income on rent. I would review like to | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
purchase a property in London and am saving for a deposit that buying | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
always seemed out of reach. What would your government do to help | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
people like me? What are you? A management consultant, 25. And you | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
can't yourself ever buying a house? Eventually, yes. But I think the | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
prices in London are so high at the moment it's hard to consider. We | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
have the Minister of Housing here. He might never buy a house. I wake | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
up every day thinking about what I can do to help people like you. | :13:27. | :13:28. | |
LAUGHTER Why does that get a laugh? I don't | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
know. This problem has been 30 or 40 years in the making. Governments of | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
both colours haven't built enough homes, which is fundamentally made | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
Housing less affordable. There is a long-term solution, to build the | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
homes we desperately need, of all kinds. Our manifesto has a higher | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
house-building target than the Labour Party. You've been in power | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
for quite awhile and Boris Johnson was the Mayor of London. It's | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
important to be honest. We inherited a house-building level of 130,000 a | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
year and we have built up to 190,000. We have made progress, but | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
I accept we need to do better. In London? They are up but they need to | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
be higher. The long-term solution is build the homes we desperately need. | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
In the short-term, we need to help people right now. Banning letting | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
agents from charging upfront fees from tenants to help people like you | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
in the rental sector. Shared ownership, schemes like that, the | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
help to buy scheme in London that can help people get on the ladder. | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
It is a huge task that we have to make up for this failure over or 40 | :14:32. | :14:41. | |
years. The Prime Minister is personally committed to ensuring | :14:42. | :14:43. | |
people like you that are working hard, doing the right thing, should | :14:44. | :14:45. | |
have the chance to own your home. I'm trying to read Charlie's | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
expression. I don't know if you feel it will happen or not. I think | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
banning things like letting these are important but it is a plaster... | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
I see a lot of expensive homes being built but not affordable homes being | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
built. Vince Cable, you know London well. One needs to happen to allow a | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
20-something to buy a house? You need a massive increase in supply, | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
that's a fundamental problem. In the past I think we have relied too | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
heavily on the private sector to do this alone and they will only build | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
if rents and house prices are going up. So you do need the public sector | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
to be more engaged. We need councils to be building houses again for rent | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
and sale, and to do that they need to have more freedom, we're in a | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
ridiculous situation at the moment where councils can borrow money to | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
invest in commercial property speculation in other parts of the | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
country but not allowed to borrow to build houses. Completely insane. If | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
you were in power, with great respect... That was your chance to | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
do it. Indeed come and we should have done a great deal more, I | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
accept that. There were other things happening, particularly in the | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
rental sector. There were large amounts of development is going up | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
along the river in London. They are unoccupied and will remain | :16:00. | :16:01. | |
unoccupied, it's just investment property, not for the likes of you. | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
We have to have some kind of control on that, by having penal council tax | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
on properties that are not used and equally stopping letting agents from | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
advertising overseas before they can advertise in the UK. Diane Abbott, | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
how is it that we have a situation where a flat is built and someone in | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
Singapore buys it, they have no intention of living in it at all, | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
it's simply an investment, they are not even going to let it out. How | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
does that happen? Well, it's because of deregulation in my view. Just to | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
say, you've raised a very important point. You have to have a salary of | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
59,000 to afford to rent anything in zones one and two. It's not just a | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
problem for you but for employers. NHS London has the highest turnover | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
of anywhere in the country because nurses, doctors, professional people | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
on reasonable salaries cannot afford to live in London. What do you do? | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
Three things. We do have to look at this question of people buying from | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
overseas, buying off plan and leaving it empty. I live in Dalston. | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
Once upon a time Dalston was a very regular place. I've got tower blocks | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
now and that my time there are no lights on, because they've all been | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
bought overseas. How do you stop that? Everyone says it's a problem. | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
There's one in Vauxhall, the lights are out or through the winter. How | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
do you stop it? As Vince says, we need to work in London with American | :17:30. | :17:37. | |
London and look at what can be done. He is Labour. That's why we will | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
work with him, vertically when we win on the 8th of June! CHEERING AND | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
APPLAUSE But also we want to look at the | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
levels of rent, because the levels of rent are astronomic and we're | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
looking at some kind of rent control. The other thing is to build | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
more houses. When the Tories talk about building houses they talk | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
about affordable houses, I tell you a penny to pound those houses are | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
not affordable to most of the people in this audience. APPLAUSE | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
OK, I'm still, let's just focus on this. No one has yet to feature of | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
the foreign investor who will not live here. Diane, tell us how you do | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
it, how you stop Russian buying a flat in London and he's not going to | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
live in it? First of all do have to work with developers to stop them. | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
Some developers advertise these places overseas and have sold them | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
all off plan. They need to offer them to people in London first. Sian | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
Berry, what do you think? This idea of selling off plan to foreign | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
investors, that's part of the economic somehow big developers work | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
now at the moment. All developments in London are doing it. I tell you | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
what, far too many developments that used to be council estates are doing | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
this as well. Councils in London have knocked down 8000 council homes | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
in recent years and not rebuilt them. We need to be doing more to | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
relax the borrowing rules on councils and put more grants in | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
place, so councils and housing associations have a different | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
economic model, not putting lots and lots of private flats and all of | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
their development but can focus on social rented flat and living dead. | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
Free up space by living on the green belt, why not do it? There is plenty | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
of space in central London at the moment. Lots of Brownfield land and | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
in field land. Brownfield land has hospital. , took about went for a | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
second? Actually, for the homes we would he have, if we built hundreds | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
of thousands of new homes that people could afford, that would | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
barely dent... There were plenty of space in central London at the | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
moment. Lots of Brownfield land and infield land. Brownfield land has | :19:44. | :19:45. | |
hospital. , took about went for a second? Actually, for the homes we | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
would he have, if we built hundreds of thousands of new homes that | :19:49. | :19:50. | |
people could afford, that would barely dent... Veretout .3 million | :19:51. | :19:52. | |
private renters, I am one in London and until recently I struggle to pay | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
my rent as well. The only thing that will help the existing people in | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
London to pay their rent and save up for a deposit is that power to do | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
rent controls. The Mayor of London needs that power. I'm not sure Sadiq | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
Khan has tried hard to get it but it is absolutely vital. Levy go back to | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
the audience. In the front row, you have been waiting patiently. Despite | :20:08. | :20:09. | |
everything said by the five of you I don't believe I could buy a house in | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
London and I don't think this could happen now, in the next five years | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
or next ten years. How old are you? 23. And working hours? Customer | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
advisor, I graduated last year and have all that debt as well. Taking | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
the average 23-year-old customer adviser, who thinks that person, you | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
will someone like you, will never be able to buy a house in London? Don't | :20:33. | :20:40. | |
look round! It's not everybody. Some people think that you will. Anyone | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
want to say why... At the back? The gentleman with a beard. Using yes or | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
no? No, she won't be able to. OK, this gentleman in the far corner? | :20:52. | :20:58. | |
You do? I think, obviously as politicians... We've listened to | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
this debate. As a politician, what are you going to do to make sure | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
young individuals are going to afford properties? You can sit there | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
and talked and talked and talked, Labour has done the same thing, | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
Liberal Democrats said the same thing as well. We have high rents | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
and mortgages, what are you going to do about the properties? I just want | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
to take a more comment on the audience before you answer. You have | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
had your hand up most of the programme. This gentleman with the | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
tie. Always impressed with a tie. Would you like to say? Just for | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
information, your mayor, Boris Johnson, when he was in power, | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
London's houses and terms of affordability, what do you know the | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
percentage of houses being made that were affordable? 13%. It is | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
completely a gimmick to hear Tories to say that. The affordable housing | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
is an affordable, that's the charge. This term affordable housing is used | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
to mean different things. It's used by housing professionals to mean | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
housing professionals. If we're talking about that we have given | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
Sadiq Khan ?3.5 billion, the largest amount of money Londoners about a | :22:14. | :22:15. | |
bad for that kind of housing. But Charlie's question was a different | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
one. How do we make housing in general for private rent for people | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
to buy more affordable? The only answer to that, ultimately, is to | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
build enough homes so that supply keeps up with armed. That is why, | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
that is the crucial question. If you compare our manifesto, go away | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
tonight and have a look, with Labour's manifesto, we offer a | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
higher level of house-building and Jeremy Corbyn. Can you pick between | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
these answers, Charlie, or is it very bleak? I find it quite | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
difficult. Speaking on behalf of a few of my friends, having seen house | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
prices rise so much above earnings growth rates, my friends are | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
concerned about buying now for fear of aggression going into negative | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
equity. Even though it can afford it are scared to go into the situation | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
because of that. Thank you, Charlie. That's a good starter on housing. We | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
may never get to the end of housing. We are going to talk about Brexit | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
now. Troy Kennedy, your question on Brexit? 60% of Londoners voted to | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
remain in the European Union, including myself. Many of us feel | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
forgotten about. What would your party do to ensure that London's | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
interests are being considered in the upcoming Brexit negotiations? So | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
Britain is Brexit, London is Remain. Vince Cable, what needs to happen? I | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
think we need to start by saying the hard extreme Ukip style of Brexit, | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
which the government is committed to, taking us out of the single | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
market, the customs union, is potentially enormously damaging and | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
we must try to stop that. It's particularly damaging for London for | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
a whole host of reasons. The financial services industry, which | :24:00. | :24:01. | |
is fundamentally, provides the tax base of the city, is going to | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
migrate out because they don't have single market passport rights. We | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
have these wonderful universities and research centres that are going | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
to lose their European money. We will lose access to the European | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
investment bank, which funds all be public transport infrastructure. We | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
have a quarter of all the top 250 companies in the world headquarters | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
here, specifically because they see Britain as a gateway to Europe. And | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
if we have a serious disruption of our trade, particularly the breaking | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
up of the customs union, a lot of those companies are going to go. So | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
the impact on London is massive. Isn't that the argument you lost | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
last year? No, we haven't lost the argument. The referendum has | :24:46. | :24:47. | |
happened, the vote is taken place. It's gone. There are different ways | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
of leaving the EU, there is the extreme and hard way this government | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
has chosen, we didn't have to leave the single market or the customs | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
union, we don't have to break up all the collaborative relationships | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
around research, which is what will happen if we have a bad deal or we | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
have no deal, which Theresa May has committed to. We must try to avoid | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
that. Peter Whittle, you want to be out tomorrow, basically? This thing | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
about had Brexit and soft Brexit, now extreme Brexit and Ukip | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
Brexit... There is just Brexit. When people voted last year, they knew | :25:27. | :25:28. | |
what they were voting for. The assumption behind all of my | :25:29. | :25:30. | |
colleagues here, all voted to Remain, I'm the only one that voted | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
for Brexit, is basically people were too stupid when they were given the | :25:35. | :25:37. | |
choice. The fact is I don't think people are stupid, they were told | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
very clearly, it means leaving the single market. It means an end to | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
free movement. That is the reason people mostly voted for it in the | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
country. I'd met in London it was 60%, but 40% of Londoners voted to | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
leave. All Vince is doing, because I project via 3.0. APPLAUSE | :25:56. | :26:02. | |
-- Project Fear. The gentleman here wearing the glasses? | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
I am sorry but there were numerous different people from different | :26:10. | :26:17. | |
parties who were backing Brexit, who were coming out with different | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
things. So you can't say that people knew exactly what Brexit was about. | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
Because I know the Conservative minister actually said that if we | :26:30. | :26:36. | |
left the European Union, that we would stay in the single market. | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
There were so many different bits of information. | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
Anyone here think that you voted out, but thinking we could stay in | :26:48. | :26:59. | |
the single market? Nobody, OK! I think Brexit debate has typified the | :27:00. | :27:07. | |
ineptitude of so many politicians. There is no hard Brexit, just Brexit | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
- what does that mean? Red, white and blue bricks and, what does that | :27:13. | :27:19. | |
mean? You can control your own laws, you can have everything you voted | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
for. You have no strategy, none of you on this stage have any strategy. | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
And that is what affect Londoners and that's why we are at risk. The | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
lady here? You also told us we would be getting ?350 million a week for | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
an NHS. That was the Tory campaign. That was the Tory campaign, Vote | :27:45. | :27:54. | |
Leave, that was never right. Our figure, Ukip, was ?250 million, | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
which was actually the correct amount which no-one disputes. They | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
were wrong. You didn't go and lie down in front of their bus | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
correcting the figure, did you? Nigel Farage was very clear at the | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
time that this was an incorrect figure. The day after, yes. You were | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
Remain, were you? Aren't you now embarrassed to be part of this | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
pro-Branksome government? No, because I said before that I would | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
respect the result. I think what is really important now is that we | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
respect the result and we try and bring the country back together. | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
That means addressing the things which led people to Vote Leave but | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
addressing the reserves of people who voted Remain liked about the | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
institution. Where I disagree with Vince, if you stay in the single | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
market and the customs union, that isn't Brexit. You have still got | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
free movement, and you can't do trade deals with any other | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
countries. That's not Brexit. It is no good as a country if we spend the | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
whole of next year arguing about the referendum that we had last year. We | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
have got to bring the country together and we have got to get the | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
right Brexit deal. What do you say to EU nationals living in London, | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
you are the only party not saying it? We absolutely want them to stay. | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
We have a juju to people who are living here and contributing to our | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
great city and to look after British citizens in EU countries as well. | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
These negotiations are going to start a few days after the election, | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
and the question is, who do you want doing those negotiations, Theresa | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
May or Jeremy Corbyn? That is the key question. Diane Abbott, you, | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
Labour, have conceded that free movement will end, and your party | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
seemed to say it through gritted teeth - why did you say that, it is | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
not what you believe? Free movement is a function of being in the EU. If | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
we are not in the EU, free movement ends. To go back to the question, | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
there are over 1 million EU nationals living in London. And the | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
Labour Party does not believe that we should use them as bargaining | :30:05. | :30:13. | |
chips in the negotiations. We believe that we should straightaway | :30:14. | :30:15. | |
say that we will secure their position. It is not just a human | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
rights issue, those EU nationals are working in our hospitals, in social | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
care... Anyone in this room in that position? Maybe not. They have | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
British partners and British children, so that's the first thing | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
we would do. You would guarantee their place as well but are we | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
absolutely. I am ashamed that we have not got further in nearly a | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
year, in terms of negotiations. The negotiations are going to be really, | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
really intricate. And yet every time you say, what are we going to do | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
about EU nationals, what are we going to do about science funding? | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
You say that to somebody who is Leave and all they do is shout back | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
slogans at you. We need to be talking much more about the details. | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
I tell you who I want negotiating Brexit, I want Caroline Lucas doing | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
it. She was an MEP for ten years, she hasn't got a massive chip on her | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
shoulder, and she can go out there and get the best deal for us. But | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
once we know what that deal is, I think we need a second referendum, | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
not the same question, a ratification referendum. Who is | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
Brexit here, put your hand up? OK, the gentleman in the jacket just at | :31:26. | :31:32. | |
the end of the row. I think you're living in cuckoo land, if you think | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
we're going to throw all EU citizens out when we do Brexit, where are you | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
coming from, we are not great to throw them out, Diane! The | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
Government could give them reassurance, and it refuses to do | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
so. No, we aren't throwing anyone out of the country! This gentleman | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
here, in the middle. I voted for Brexit and I kind of get that we | :31:58. | :32:00. | |
don't have a complete mandate to leave the single market, with only | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
2%. But the Greens and the Liberal Democrats talking about having a | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
second referendum, you accept that we left the European Union but then | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
you want to give us the chance to remain in the European Union. Surely | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
it should just big deal or no deal, just no referendum, because you've | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
accepted that we've left? It is a totally different question. The | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
public have voted to leave, we haven't got any understanding yet | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
about what the destination is. Let me make a simple point - Theresa May | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
has said that she wants to crash out of the European Union if they can't | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
get a good deal. Which they may not. She used that phrase. In which case | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
we may have a chaotic situation in which there are no rules for | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
business, and under those circumstances, the British public | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
should have an opportunity to pass a judgment on what has been agreed. | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
Question on a different subject, another huge subject, from Margaret | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
Fordham up here. It is, yes. I am now in my 70s, I have paid my taxes | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
and worked to be able to afford to buy my own home, which is worth over | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
?100,000. I want to leave it to my family, to my son, who is sitting | :33:20. | :33:26. | |
next to me. But if I go into care, they might need to sell this house | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
to pay for the care. Is that fair? Is it fair, Gavin Barwell, that | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
Margaret should have to lose the value in her home to pay for care? | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
It is the current position, Margaret, if that happened to you | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
right now, your house would be eroded down to just ?23,000. That is | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
all you would be able to give to your son. Theresa May is proposing | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
briefings, first of all to raise that to ?100,000. And secondly, we | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
are saying there should be a cap on the total contribution. Of how much? | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
We're going to consult on that. There is an election soon, you've | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
got to tell us! I think it is important to have a consultation | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
about that. Margaret was asking me a simple question, and I agree with | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
her that she people should be able to leave a significant proportion of | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
what you have worked hard for. You must know what that cap is, to be | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
able to work these figures out, yet Theresa May was unwilling to say. My | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
concern is that after caring for my mum, she could be in care for years | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
and eventually, I would have to get a mortgage to live in my own home | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
which we have spent years paying off. I live with my mum, my father | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
died when I was 23, we were left in loads of debt because he had | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
dementia himself, who clubbed together, we pay for the house, we | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
keep the house going. I am not saying, oh, great, look at me. What | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
I'm saying is, we have got a property which we spent years | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
looking after, when my mum goes into care, undone end up having to get a | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
mortgage. Important to say, you're not alone. Although you say that | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
Margaret will be better off within a bit of ?100,000, it is not quite | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
true, is it, because the value will be taken out when she uses social | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
care in her own home, and that is the big change? That is really | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
important, at the moment, a lot of people are being forced out of their | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
own home. Some people are being forced to go into residential care, | :35:27. | :35:28. | |
that is not a good outcome for people. Coming back to the point, | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
people will not have to sell their home at the point someone needs to | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
go into care. What you said in your question is exactly right, people | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
who work hard should be able to pass on a significant proportion of what | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
they have built up in their lives, to their children. We have been | :35:46. | :35:53. | |
paying off that property for years. Weren't Conservatives and other | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
parties encouraging us to be aspirational, to own our own homes, | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
in order for them to take it back from us almost in its entirety? Let | :36:02. | :36:10. | |
me bring... You cannot spin this, this was a humiliating U-turn you've | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
done. And also it shows that the nasty party is still well and truly | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
alive. It is appalling. The fact is, we have not taken social care for | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
the elderly seriously enough. What we are talking about in my party is | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
putting ?1.2 billion purely into social care, integrating it with the | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
National Health Service, and putting that money into social care, which | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
we will take from the hugely inflated foreign aid budget. So, | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
you're taking the whole of the foreign aid budget... No, we're | :36:42. | :36:52. | |
going to reduce it from 0.7 down to 0.2%, which is what America spends | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
on it. We are going to put ?9 billion of that into the NHS and ?2 | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
billion into social care. Sian Berry? The Conservatives have made a | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
right mess of this. I think it is completely wrong to try and take | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
away your home to try and pay for your care. This is social security, | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
one of those things which should be paid for out of things like national | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
insurance. Currently, national insurance drops to a very low level, | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
people should carry on paying for national insurance and it should go | :37:23. | :37:25. | |
towards social care. When it comes to inheritance, we think the money | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
from inheritance should be taxed according to the income of who | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
receives it, not according to the estate which is giving its. I think | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
that would be much more fair. Some people, their home is their only | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
asset, their children are poor, if those children are not wealthy, they | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
should not be taxed on it. Diane Abbott, your leader, Tony Blair, who | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
of course you are a big fan of, once said, you should not have to sell | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
your home to pay for your care, and I think he got the biggest round of | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
applause he ever got at the party conference, is that your policy | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
still? Yeah, I think that is exactly right. I know people from the | :38:01. | :38:07. | |
inner-city who scrimped and saved to buy a house in Gavin's constituency. | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
They did without a lot of things, and to tell them, when they have | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
paid into their national insurance all their life, that they're going | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
to pay this dementia tax?! This was the position under a Labour | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
government. No, because what is new, with this dementia tax, Europe | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
you're going to take people's homes after they have died. You have taken | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
this a step further, and you're going to have this dementia tax for | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
people who are just getting care in their homes. Of course it is unfair. | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
Ryan, you will have to raise more tax, to do what you want to do, and | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
I have to mention this, you're going to raise the tax on people earning | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
?80,000 and above. Now, you know in London, somebody on ?80,000 might | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
not even be able to afford to buy a house, that is how crazy the | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
property market is. So how is it fair to ask them to pay more tax? | :39:08. | :39:17. | |
The point about... We are only talking about putting income tax on | :39:18. | :39:25. | |
the top 5%. The point about income tax, consistently applied, it is | :39:26. | :39:27. | |
still fairer than randomly taking the houses of people who happen to | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
have made that investment. What about inheritance tax? Vince Cable. | :39:34. | :39:42. | |
What is so incompetent as well as cruel about what the Conservatives | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
did, was, they were getting all of this talk about consultation. We | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
have already had one, we spent three years in the coalition consulting, | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
there is a 300 page document drawn up by Andrew Dilnot, we agreed a | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
figure, 72,000. And there is absolutely no reason whatever why | :40:01. | :40:02. | |
the Conservatives could not have stayed with that. There is a | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
separate issue, which links to the issue of taxation, quite apart from | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
how you fund long-term personal care, there is a current crisis in | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
actually paying for home care services of local councils. They | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
have lost vast amounts of money, elderly, frail people are having to | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
go into hospital and they are staying in hospital. One reason we | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
are arguing that we want ordinary taxpayers to pay a penny in the | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
pound one income tax is party to support the Health Service, but | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
partly to support social care budget, because you have to look at | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
those briefings together. I think we have got in the audience, I don't | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
know if you are retired yet... You're not. You are a director of | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
health and social care? Yes. Actually involved with the royal | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
commission on care. Just to get the argument right, it was 14,250 is the | :40:55. | :41:02. | |
actual limit today, not 23,000. It was the Liberals and the | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
Conservatives who proposed in the 2014 act that it should increase to | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
17,000, if you remember. Do you see a solution? I think what the Prime | :41:14. | :41:21. | |
Minister did, she said, instead of having 14,250, let's have it at | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
100,000. She also turned around and said, OK, people receiving help in | :41:26. | :41:33. | |
their own homes, perhaps the should have it come out of their resources | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
as well. That's roughly speaking ?200 a week. You have got to spend a | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
lot of 10,000 driver to get that. The question I ask is, when you're | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
sitting in government, you've got responsibilities and you're looking | :41:49. | :41:50. | |
at the budget for adult social care, what is your priority, is in this | :41:51. | :41:57. | |
area, or are there other areas in adult social care which you are | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
prototypes and -- which you upright or -- which you are prioritising? In | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
regard to the dementia tax what I would like to say is, you've done 27 | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
U-turns since your last manifesto. How dare you expect me to implicitly | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
trust you now? Anyone else? It is not easy, this, there is no obvious | :42:24. | :42:30. | |
solution. Hello. I think it is unfair to completely go on the | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
U-turn, because surely if you get bad feedback and make changes, | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
surely that is a good thing, not a bad thing. The Conservatives are far | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
from being the only party who have done that. Who asked the question on | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
this? Yes, Margaret Fordham, you were worried about your home? Yes, I | :42:50. | :42:58. | |
am, and I really fear that for years, we have had to work so hard | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
to keep our home, and for this to happen, it's so disappointing and | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
I'm so disappointed in the Conservatives, I really, really am. | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
We are out of time. Thank you, politicians, thank you, brilliant | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
audience as well. All I should say, really, is that polling takes place | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
on the 8th of June. Thank you very much for watching. Good night. | :43:23. | :44:03. | |
Hear the arguments from the politicians themselves. | :44:04. | :44:07. |