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Nine days from now, the power to choose who runs the country rests in | :00:07. | :00:15. | |
our hands. Each boat could count more than anywhere else here in the | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
North West, who will you trust to take charge? There are more marginal | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
seats than anywhere in the UK, whoever captures the north-west this | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
time will win the election. Is it all about Brexit, help for hospitals | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
and schools? With the region reeling from last weeks terror attack, is | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
security top of your list? Obviously, it has been brought to | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
the top of our minds. People are more concerned about schools, NHS. | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
It's not just about Brexit but 90% is. This is perhaps the most | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
dramatic contest we have seen in a generation. This evening, candidates | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
put their case for power. With us tonight are candidates | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
from five parties. John Bickley is the UKIP | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
candidate in Eddisbury. Lisa Smart is standing | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
for the Liberal Democrats in Hazel Grove, Nigel Evans | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
for the Conservatives in Ribble Valley and Lisa Nandy | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
for Labour in Wigan. And Stephanie Pitchers will be | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
contesting Liverpool Riverside Our panel is all welcome, | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
our audience is too. You are welcome to join | :01:22. | :01:35. | |
the debate at home on Twitter, use the hashtag #electionnw: | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
We will keep it up on the screen during the course of | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
the next 45 minutes. A number of questions to get | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
through, lots to talk about at the end of what has been | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
a week that most people here Our first question comes | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
from Dr Zahid Chauhan. What as a society can we do | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
to prevent the spread Obviously what happened | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
last Monday is shocking, and most of us are still trying | :02:02. | :02:14. | |
to come to terms with this. But in some respects | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
it wasn't a shock. Not least because those | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
people in the Muslim and in Islam who hate us, | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
who have told us quite clearly they want to destroy our way | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
of life, it isn't a shock to them, they have been planning | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
to do this for some time. And I think somehow, | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
we've got to connect with the Muslim community and say we're | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
all in this together. There is a problem in some elements | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
of the Muslim community, anybody who saw the Channel 4 | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
programme last year fronted by Trevor Phillips, | :02:48. | :02:49. | |
What British Muslims Really Think, some of the things that | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
came out were shocking. 100,000 Muslims in this | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
country think it's OK And people who have | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
acts of terrorism. Half of them think there should be | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
a law against homosexuality, one in four want to live | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
under sharia law. We have all failed to find a way | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
to work together and we have, as Trevor Phillips said, | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
a nation within a nation. One in three people in this country | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
are likely to be Muslim, if we haven't integrated by then | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
we're going to have big problems. What would the Conservatives do | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
specifically to try and stop We were all appalled by the scenes | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
we witnessed last Monday and I myself had a constituent | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
who was killed and another The vast majority of | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
Muslims were as appalled as we all were by the scenes | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
that we witnessed in Manchester. And we have got to work together | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
to defeat the evil that Fortunately it is a relatively small | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
number but we have got to redouble our efforts to work | :03:59. | :04:06. | |
with the Muslim community to root out the people | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
who have been radicalised, who are trying to radicalise others, | :04:11. | :04:12. | |
to use the intelligence forces we have got to eradicate any access | :04:13. | :04:21. | |
via the Internet to the radicalisation that's taking | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
place there, and we have got to use the intelligence services far more | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
than is currently the case and use our schools, | :04:28. | :04:29. | |
bringing the communities together, bringing the religions together, | :04:30. | :04:31. | |
there is not a them and an us, it's all of us against this small | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
minority of people that we need Nigel Evans talked about trying | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
to do something with the Internet, would Labour support forcing | :04:39. | :04:47. | |
Internet companies like Facebook, Twitter, to crackdown on this | :04:48. | :04:49. | |
on their sites? I think there is undoubtedly more | :04:50. | :04:58. | |
that the Internet companies can do, some are leading the way in this | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
so there is no excuse But the other thing we need to think | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
about is we have 20,000 police officers cut from our forces over | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
the last seven years, since 2010, and a lot of those police officers | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
have been community police officers who are our eyes and ears | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
in our communities and so it's incredibly important now that every | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
political party sets out plans, my party has already done it, | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
to put more police officers back on our street and we should never | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
again be in a situation where a member of Greater Manchester | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
Police is saying to the Home Secretary, as happened two years | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
ago, that they simply do not have the resources they need to keep | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
people safe It's incredibly important | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
going forward after this horrific attack that we have the resources | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
we need to keep people safe and we need a root and branch review | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
as Andy Burnham said of the Prevent strategy, which started | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
in communities and has become toxic. The trouble with that is if you are | :05:58. | :05:59. | |
a young person in the north-west who is being groomed and targeted | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
by extremists, you are much more likely to disclose that | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
to a friend or family member than you are to disclose | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
that to a police officer and if the community doesn't believe | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
in the programme that is meant Do they regret the coalition | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
and those cuts that were made I agree very strongly with what Lisa | :06:18. | :06:28. | |
says about the importance of making sure our police and intelligence | :06:29. | :06:36. | |
services, our security services, have the resources they need | :06:37. | :06:38. | |
to do the job. We as Lib Dems would invest | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
?300 million specifically in community policing | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
in all our communities, le'ts not forget that there | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
are representatives of a number of communities | :06:49. | :06:50. | |
who commit terrorist attacks, The other thing we would do is make | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
sure our police force represents the communities that we all seek | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
to represent, Lisa made a really good point about Prevent, | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
we as Liberal Democrats would reform it to the Engage | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
strategy and make sure it was pulled from the bottom up from communities | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
who know the communities best, who know whether it's | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
in a far right community, whether it's in a radicalised | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
extremist Muslim community, make sure it's those communities | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
who are put in charge of working with police, | :07:26. | :07:27. | |
with broader communities, to stop these horrific | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
events we are seeing. Stephanie, from the Greens' point | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
of view, it's not your natural hinterland, however, | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
what would you do to prevent Absolutely the police | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
have been underfunded, we need more police | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
so that they can do their jobs. Something that hasn't been mentioned | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
is that Salman Abedi was known to the police and several | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
of his friends and family had reported him, he was banned | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
from his mosque but nothing was done and I feel this | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
was something that could have been prevented had we had enough | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
police on the ground. One of the major issues | :08:04. | :08:13. | |
that Muslim people face, that I've had with my neighbours, | :08:14. | :08:15. | |
is that there is discrimination against Muslim people | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
and against people of colour, So many people in my | :08:20. | :08:21. | |
community are fed up at not being able to get jobs | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
that are worthwhile, not being able to make a difference | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
in the way they would like, to have really good, | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
meaningful jobs that give back to society, | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
and if we address these issues of inequality and fairness, | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
that is a great step forward to stopping terrorism | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
and radicalisation. What is the panel's reaction | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
to the news that Jeremy Corbyn laid a wreath at the grave | :08:44. | :08:52. | |
of the mastermind of the Munich A little bit off-topic, Lisa, | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
you could answer it quickly? It was right that Jeremy has | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
been asked questions about this and his views | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
on terrorism over the weekend and he has been very robust | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
in his response in saying that he doesn't support any form | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
of terrorism, he also condemned the bombings | :09:14. | :09:15. | |
and atrocities by the IRA. I think it's fair for the people | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
to ask our politicians questions like this and I was glad | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
to hear him give a very I would also like to hear | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
Theresa May see some questions levelled at her and some real | :09:28. | :09:36. | |
answers about the cuts to the police service, | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
because I do think just a few days out from a general election, | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
we are entitled to hear... Lisa is trying to deflect attention | :09:43. | :09:44. | |
away from the core of that question. We were all appalled | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
by what we have read about what Jeremy Corbyn | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
did a year before he became leader Diane Abbott herself | :09:53. | :09:54. | |
four times was asked to condemn the IRA atrocities | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
when she was on The Record... Please don't try and score | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
party political points So address the issue of police cuts, | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
there are now 1000 fewer police on the streets | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
than there were in 2010 Our Home Secretary said we will work | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
to ensure there will be sufficient numbers to ensure | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
that there are sufficient She said the opposite | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
a few weeks ago. This is not using Diane Abbott | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
economics, we would be funding You have cut and you have cut, | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
voted every time to cut... I hate to break up the fight | :10:39. | :10:49. | |
but the fact is the Tory party cut police numbers by 20,000, | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
we would reinstate that. Want to impose multiculturalism | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
on this country without asking One of the problems we have today | :10:58. | :11:06. | |
is we don't get asked what sort of country we want to live in, | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
it's imposed on us by the Labour The gentleman who has | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
had his hand up for a while. I think sometimes the party conflate | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
a couple of issues here, I spent over 30 years in law | :11:24. | :11:25. | |
enforcement and what we don't need is necessarily ten or 20,000 | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
more police officers, a lot of that is to placate Joe | :11:29. | :11:39. | |
Public. What we really need are intelligence | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
service officers and unfortunately they take a long time to train | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
up so in many cases, particularly in France recently, | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
many of the people following this atrocities were found | :11:53. | :11:54. | |
by a guy or a girl sitting Some of the Green party's policies | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
are poor a basic income so that would mean every citizen gets | :12:01. | :12:14. | |
an equal footing to start off with, so you wouldn't have people | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
who are in a poverty trap and can't get into meaningful | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
employment and can't get the They thought it was a great idea | :12:26. | :12:27. | |
to go and kill lots of young girls last Monday night, | :12:28. | :12:35. | |
giving them a nice job seekers allowance, they don't want that, | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
they want to destroy our society. I want to know how many Muslim | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
people you have spoken to divide I'm sure the majority of them | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
are feeling pretty bad. The problem is coming from Islam | :12:47. | :12:57. | |
and parts of Islam... It's not coming from | :12:58. | :12:59. | |
the Christian community. There is a realistic point here, | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
the people who have claimed responsibility for this horrendous | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
attack on mainly women and children in Manchester just over a week ago | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
have also been involved in committing horrendous | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
atrocities against the Muslim They are not just attacking us, | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
they are attacking decent people from different backgrounds | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
all over the world. Until we start to address the root | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
causes, we will never deal with it. They've got to stop | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
killing us first. Final thought from you | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
on what you have heard. How come everyone missed | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
the point, I said How can you started getting | :13:44. | :13:45. | |
us all these numbers Jo Cox's murder was unacceptable, | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
but terrorism throughout Europe is being committed by people | :13:53. | :14:03. | |
who align themselves with the Muslim nation, if you will, | :14:04. | :14:11. | |
and align themselves with Islamabad. It has been highlighted | :14:12. | :14:13. | |
by a small number of people. We have a second question | :14:14. | :14:25. | |
from Astrid Johnson. I am an EU national, | :14:26. | :14:38. | |
have been living here for 20 years, I am bringing up an English | :14:39. | :14:40. | |
stepdaughter, I'm volunteering, I came to England because | :14:41. | :14:48. | |
I love this country. Why am | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
I a bargaining chip? I agree, it is desperately | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
unfair that you people like you who've contributed | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
massively to our community over many decades of being as bargaining chips | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
in the extreme Tory Brexit world What we as Liberal Democrats | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
would do is guarantee your rights to stay here, you're contributed, | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
so many are contributing, Isn't that what is likely to happen | :15:17. | :15:18. | |
in this particular element There are some in the UK | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
Nationals who live in the EU, who live here, it should be | :15:23. | :15:32. | |
a straightforward trade-off? Not necessarily, if we face a hard | :15:33. | :15:34. | |
Brexit, a hard Theresa May Brexit, we could face potentially | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
EU citizens who don't know where they stand and who are | :15:38. | :15:39. | |
facing lots of uncertainty. We don't need to leave | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
the single market. The north-west, 52% | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
of things that are produced in the north-west go to the single | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
market, EU countries, so it would be in our best countries | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
to remain in the single market That is something the Green Party | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
will be fighting tooth It's not just about people | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
who are from Europe, living here now, and British people | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
living abroad, it's also If we have a hard Brexit | :16:08. | :16:09. | |
and all ties are cut, like so many of the other parties | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
seem to want, we do face a real dilemma where our children | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
won't have the same opportunities that we have had, and I just think | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
that grossly unfair. You can say that, | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
I couldn't comment! Do you fear a hard Brexit, | :16:25. | :16:33. | |
or do you think we can find Astrid should know that before | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
the general election I was joint chair of a party group in the | :16:37. | :16:48. | |
House of Commons called Brexpats, and it is to look after the rights | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
of the 3.5 million EU citizens who live and work in | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
the United Kingdom, but also the 1.5 million British people | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
who happen to live and work We want them to enjoy | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
the life they have got here. It's common sense to say | :17:01. | :17:12. | |
everybody should stay, live and work exactly | :17:13. | :17:14. | |
where they are, it makes I was just saying to Nigel, | :17:15. | :17:16. | |
why hasn't she said it? She has said that, she has been | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
clear in the White Paper. Theresa May probably won't be | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
able to guarantee that until she knows she has got | :17:25. | :17:39. | |
the opposite coming back. Let me respond to that, because | :17:40. | :17:41. | |
truth is it's not only shameful that we are treating people | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
who have been in this country and contributed for | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
a long time like this. It's also disastrous | :17:49. | :17:55. | |
for our public services, the NHS in particular, | :17:56. | :17:57. | |
it attracts a huge number of nurses and doctors from the EU, | :17:58. | :17:59. | |
and applications have now dropped off, it's also the worst possible | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
way to go about a negotiation. To show no leadership and | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
no goodwill towards those other member states, | :18:06. | :18:07. | |
the people you are seeking to reach an agreement | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
with from the very beginning, and the reason for this, | :18:10. | :18:11. | |
you asked why you're being treated as a bargaining chip, | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
because I have watched the way the Tories have approached | :18:15. | :18:16. | |
this from the beginning, Cameron led us into a referendum | :18:17. | :18:18. | |
with no thought and planning for what comes next, | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
because of pressure about his own position in the Tory | :18:22. | :18:22. | |
party above the interests of the country, they had | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
no plan at all board would And Theresa May is still at it. | :18:28. | :18:42. | |
Jeremy Corbyn sitting around the negotiating table... That is | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
absolutely outrageous. I think it's disgraceful. John Bickley, what you | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
keep going to do to help? We want to see Brexit delivered. It was a | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
simple choice people were given last year. Remain, or leave. All this | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
nonsense with hard Brexit, extreme Brexit, Theresa May's Brexit, but is | :19:02. | :19:03. | |
politicking. The British people said | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
we want to leave the EU, and that means leave | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
the EU full stop. Not stay in the EU Monday, | :19:10. | :19:11. | |
Tuesday, Wednesday, leave on Thursday, Friday, | :19:12. | :19:13. | |
Saturday. The lady at the end | :19:14. | :19:14. | |
from the Green Party talks about 52% of trade from the north-west | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
going to the EU. 88% of the wealth we generate | :19:18. | :19:19. | |
each year has absolutely The EU is becoming a diminishing | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
part of world trade. The British people made a very good | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
decision to leave last year, And all those people that are still | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
here from the EU, please stay. That has been Ukip's | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
position all along. And we think it's quite | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
sensible to sit down, as the Tory party will be doing | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
this, no doubt, after June the 8th, with the EU Commission and say, | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
we want be 3.2 million EU We assume, if you're being sensible, | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
that you want the 1.2 million Brits Lisa Smart, one thing that a number | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
of people have said to us anecdotally in the 12 month | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
since we voted Out is, the decision has been made, | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
should now everybody fall behind it and make the best possible | :20:08. | :20:09. | |
Brexit we can have? Are the Lib Dems | :20:10. | :20:11. | |
full square behind that? You asked before, | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
where is Nigel Farage? He doesn't need to be on the stage | :20:15. | :20:16. | |
any more because Theresa May is spouting all the words he's been | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
banging on about for decades, You asked about the vote we had last | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
year, absolutely we had a vote. That was to a departure, | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
it wasn't about the destination. In 18 months, two years' time, | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
when the negotiations have been concluded, | :20:32. | :20:33. | |
we are saying that it should be the people that have a say on those | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
details and on the tones of that That would weaken our | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
negotiation, Roger. Could you imagine sitting | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
opposite Jean-Claude Juncker and Donald Tusk and saying, | :20:44. | :20:44. | |
if we have a bad deal, where going to put it back | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
to the British people. And if it's not a good deal, | :20:49. | :20:50. | |
they'll vote to stay You're actually pushing | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
the negotiation. You're weakening Britain's | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
negotiating position. Where is the detail of your Brexit | :20:58. | :20:59. | |
position in your manifesto? No, Lisa, it means we're | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
leaving the European Union. Your leader can't even accept | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
the views of the British I think the Lib Dem party | :21:07. | :21:14. | |
are typical of what's gone You're ganging up them | :21:15. | :21:23. | |
from either side here. They don't accept | :21:24. | :21:31. | |
the people's result. A bit like the EU, they keep | :21:32. | :21:32. | |
getting you to vote to give Nigel could do a very good | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
thing here, because he's so keen that we leave, | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
he could get Theresa to say categorically that when we do | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
leave we will get back control of all our own laws, | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
of our fishing grounds out to the 200 mile exclusion zone, | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
to make our own trade deals. No one can guarantee anything | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
because we haven't sat down I trust Theresa May, | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
and the negotiation... In ten days' time, | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott Let's have a quick thought | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
from the audience. Lots of people have | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
got their hands up. The gentleman over | :22:15. | :22:16. | |
there in the T-shirt, you've been waiting very | :22:17. | :22:17. | |
patiently, thank you. Lisa did touch on the NHS before, | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
and this seems to be a running theme They seem to be using | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
this as a scare tactic. Always threatening | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
destruction of the NHS. We will talk about | :22:28. | :22:28. | |
the NHS in a minute. That is to do with immigration, | :22:29. | :22:30. | |
because what you're basically saying is it's under threat without | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
people coming into the EU. It's actually under threat | :22:34. | :22:35. | |
with people coming in. No government here can promise | :22:36. | :22:37. | |
to sort the NHS, sort the education, There is a reality here | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
about the National Health Service, we have 20,000 nurses, | :22:41. | :22:48. | |
10,000 doctors who come Since we voted to leave | :22:49. | :22:50. | |
the European Union, a result that I accept, | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
those applications to come and work We've got 24,000 nursing positions | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
that cannot be filled. Our nurses haven't had a pay rise | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
under these Tories for seven years. We've driven down the terms and | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
conditions of pay of our NHS staff. We need to bring back the | :23:08. | :23:10. | |
nursing bursary, and make sure we stabilise our public | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
services in the interim. Let's move it on, because our next | :23:18. | :23:20. | |
question is going to take us Don't forget of course if | :23:21. | :23:27. | |
you're at home you can join in, the hashtag's on the screen, | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
hashtag "ElectionNW". Becky Forest, you've got a question | :23:32. | :23:33. | |
for us on the health service? The NHS has struggled | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
to cope with acute changes Isn't it time it was managed | :23:40. | :23:41. | |
by a cross-party commission to improve its resilience | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
and continuity? It's a great idea, but that means | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
getting people like this Well, as a Green Party politician, | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
I know that we're not going to get a majority government at | :23:51. | :24:05. | |
the election, if we are realistic, because of the first | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
past the post system. However, we are willing to work | :24:09. | :24:09. | |
with other parties so that we can come to agreements on things | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
like the NHS. I mean, we are more than happy | :24:14. | :24:15. | |
to form a coalition with certain parties who share | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
some of our ideals. A cross-party commission, | :24:19. | :24:20. | |
would that work? Because I believe that | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
the government of the day is the one that's in charge | :24:25. | :24:33. | |
of the National Health Service. And at the end of the period, | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
people would make a judgment That's your problem, isn't it, | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
because you'd been in charge of it for seven years, | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
and many people would say it's not The vast majority of people who get | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
service from the NHS think they get I've got two members of my own | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
family who are currently receiving treatment from the | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
National Health Service. But the fact is that the demands | :24:56. | :24:56. | |
of it have increased dramatically We've got more people | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
living in this country. We're talking about | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
?8 billion extra. In real terms, that's above the rate | :25:05. | :25:06. | |
of inflation to ensure that we've Listen, all Jeremy Corbyn | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
wants to do is... A lot of doctors would be | :25:11. | :25:17. | |
hit by his taxation. Mental health care is seen | :25:18. | :25:25. | |
as the Cinderella condition. And I can tell you on many | :25:26. | :25:37. | |
of the surgeries that I've held over 25 years as a member of Parliament, | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
it's an increasing problem. And it needs to be | :25:42. | :25:43. | |
properly addressed. That's why we want to see | :25:44. | :25:45. | |
10,000 mental health care professionals introduced | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
into the National Health Service in order to deal with the problem | :25:49. | :25:49. | |
that quite frankly is a ticking time John, is ?8 billion a year extra | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
enough from the Conservatives? We will put 11 billion by the end | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
of the next Parliament, per year, We would want another | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
10,000 GPs by 2025. We would want to lift the cap | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
on medical training places. We would want to see another | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
20,000 nurses and 3500 midwives. You can see where | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
the money comes from. ?350 million a week extra for | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
the NHS is 18.2 billion over a year. You need to speak to the Tory party | :26:21. | :26:29. | |
who put that slogan out So why only eight when | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
it's not 18, Nigel? 8 billion in real terms, so there | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
will be extra money going in. There is an additional | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
one billion and mental The problem with the Labour Party | :26:44. | :26:45. | |
is that they can trot out figures because there is a ?20 billion hole | :26:46. | :26:56. | |
in the costings of their manifesto. They haven't got the faintest idea | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
where this money is going to come. They can't keep hitting the top 5% | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
or 26% on corporation tax for. Let's get a thought from this | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
gentleman here in the back row. I get sick and tired of people | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
bandying these figures out, like 10,000 additional | :27:13. | :27:25. | |
mental health professionals. What is a mental | :27:26. | :27:26. | |
health professional? Is he a fully trained | :27:27. | :27:28. | |
mental health nurse? Or is it somebody with | :27:29. | :27:29. | |
a bit of qualification? What is a qualified | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
nurse, can you tell me? It'll be a properly | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
professional person. There's an extra | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
?1 billion going in. To tackle the mental | :27:39. | :27:39. | |
health ticking time bomb. We are the only party | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
talking about mental health You can't say where | :27:45. | :27:46. | |
the money's coming from. I am extremely happy to share my | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
copy of the manifesto with you. We have been banging on about mental | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
health for a good number of years and I'm delighted that the Tories' | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
party polling has handed sufficient Your party's policy is going | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
to make it worse, Lisa. To address Becky's question | :28:06. | :28:17. | |
about cross-party working groups to look at the health service, | :28:18. | :28:19. | |
because it is too important to be this political football | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
which is the basis of your question, I think, that is long-term | :28:24. | :28:25. | |
Lib Dem health policy. In the short term, though, | :28:26. | :28:27. | |
the health services in crisis. Nearly two thirds of NHS trusts | :28:28. | :28:29. | |
finished the last financial year in deficit and something needs to be | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
done more quickly What we as Liberal Democrats | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
would do would be to add And ring fence the money | :28:36. | :28:44. | |
that we spend specifically on the health service and mental | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
health, public health and on primary The point that was made | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
about needing to spend more on social care | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
is absolutely spot on. We are living longer | :28:55. | :28:56. | |
as a nation, which is great. But we're living longer | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
with conditions like I'm not sure the dementia | :29:00. | :29:00. | |
tax is going to be would be as Tories when you first | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
announced that, but it is such an important thing and I absolutely | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
agree with the basis On the one hand, I absolutely agree | :29:13. | :29:14. | |
that we should try and take the political mudslinging out | :29:15. | :29:24. | |
of discussions about how we fund and care for people in health | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
needs in this country. I've been working with | :29:28. | :29:29. | |
the Liberal Democrats and other political parties in parliament | :29:30. | :29:31. | |
to try and do precisely And I think that is incredibly | :29:32. | :29:33. | |
important to do that where we can. But the truth is in answer | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
to your question, politics And that is deeply political, | :29:39. | :29:40. | |
that is about the choices that we make, the different choices | :29:41. | :29:49. | |
that we've all made as political When I look around | :29:50. | :29:52. | |
the north-west and I see of hospitals and I see nurses | :29:53. | :30:00. | |
who haven't had a pay rise for seven years, | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
some of whom are now visiting food banks, I see huge shortages | :30:05. | :30:06. | |
in the NHS, ?3 billion a year roughly spent on agency staff | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
to plug that gap, when I see those huge pressing needs, | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
I know exactly what this is because I saw it before | :30:13. | :30:14. | |
growing up in this region The political choices | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
of the Tory party... I see this every time | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
with the Labour Party. Without it, they're | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
dead in the water. If you haven't loaded up the NHS | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
with so much PFI debt, which big fund managers and city fat | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
cats are making millions out of, thanks to the Labour Party, | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
they would have more money And if you haven't let in millions | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
of people, if you haven't let in millions of people | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
with uncontrolled immigration, With regards to mental health, | :30:52. | :30:52. | |
I think a huge concern. Not just for this region, | :30:53. | :31:03. | |
but also national. How much investment will any party | :31:04. | :31:04. | |
investor mental health services? This is what the population doesn't | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
like about politics. Every five years you tear down | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
the education system, you tear down the health system | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
and you try and rebuild them from the ground | :31:16. | :31:17. | |
up, every five years. I don't think that helps | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
the population as a whole. I think that's using the whole | :31:22. | :31:24. | |
country as a political football. Can I just respond to this | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
gentleman's question. It is right to say that we've got | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
to think seriously about how we fund mental health services | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
in this country. There is also another issue | :31:37. | :31:37. | |
which is that money for mental One of the things that we're | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
promising to do in our manifesto is to ring fence that funding so it | :31:41. | :31:48. | |
actually reaches people. The Green Party is promising | :31:49. | :31:50. | |
to bring mental health waiting times Currently in Liverpool you can | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
wait up to six months if you are diagnosed with depression | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
to see anyone. We want to give the NHS | :32:00. | :32:01. | |
is ?20 billion. We're going to scrap Trident | :32:02. | :32:03. | |
and we're going to claim back The NHS is so important | :32:04. | :32:06. | |
that we can't let it go down the way that the Tories seem to be wanting | :32:07. | :32:14. | |
it to go. The Tories have been looking | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
after it for the last seven years, The Tories have been breaking it | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
down, selling it off, The Green Party wants | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
to take the NHS out of privatisation and back | :32:25. | :32:33. | |
into public hands. Don't forget you can join | :32:34. | :32:35. | |
in at home, hashtag #ElectionNW The gentleman over there | :32:36. | :32:47. | |
mentioned primary schools. I would like to ask what you will do | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
to ensure the educational system equips our young people to enter | :32:52. | :32:59. | |
into industry with the appropriate Yeah, there is a massive section | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
in the Conservative manifesto that addresses education, | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
particularly on technical education, and technology education, | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
and we are talking about investing This is an actual real terms | :33:10. | :33:11. | |
increase in education of our young people to make sure that they've got | :33:12. | :33:18. | |
the right skills - whether it is in the new Internet | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
technologies that are available, or it is technical education so it's | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
not just the academic aspects of education, | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
which is important. Are you in danger of | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
creating a two tier system? And the reason why, Roger, | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
and the important thing is that we've got the fastest-growing | :33:39. | :33:49. | |
economy in the G7. We are the fifth largest | :33:50. | :33:51. | |
economy in the world. If we want to see that continue, | :33:52. | :33:53. | |
we've got to make absolutely certain that we've got the right skills | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
in our workforce for the future, and for that to happen we've got | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
to make sure that people have got That's exactly what | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
were going to do. I go back to when I was | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
a kid in Wythenshawe. I didn't make it to the grammar | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
school, which was actually But grammar schools and technical | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
schools in those days, 65% of those Grammar schools were a great leg up | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
for working-class people, and the labour and Tory party | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
decided to destroy that system If you look at the programme | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
for student assessment, Pisa, We are supposed to be, | :34:23. | :34:31. | |
we used to have the greatest The other problem is Labour | :34:32. | :34:40. | |
is education, education, education. They told a lot of kids that | :34:41. | :34:53. | |
if you went to university you'd make We now find out from the office | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
for national statistics almost half our graduates, | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
with 40 grand's worth of debt and having stayed out of the job | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
market for five years, I think anyone who's been | :35:05. | :35:06. | |
through the education system in the last 25 years, | :35:07. | :35:14. | |
or has worked on it, will know that you're | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
talking absolute rubbish, So I don't think I really | :35:18. | :35:19. | |
need to deal with that. There are lots of graduates | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
who can't get a job these days, because they were promised this | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
wonderful ideal that they could get There are lots of non-graduates | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
who can't get a job as well. And I think the question | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
is absolutely spot on. The truth is we have young | :35:33. | :35:34. | |
people in this region who are unemployed in areas | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
where there are vacancies for jobs. The question about how you bring | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
those two things back together And the answer, | :35:44. | :35:45. | |
I think, has two parts. The first is that we have | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
to invest in young people. Schools have been cut, | :35:51. | :35:53. | |
they will continue to be cut. But the flip side, of course, | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
is that there has to be somewhere good for young people | :35:58. | :36:00. | |
to go and work. And that is the real vandalism | :36:01. | :36:02. | |
of what the Tories have done In the last couple of years, | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
they have destroyed industries like clean energies, | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
which were growing six times faster. In other countries, young people | :36:13. | :36:14. | |
are being given the opportunity not just to build solar panels, | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
but actually to design that You address the green | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
economy, and then I'm The Green Party has a really great | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
vision for schools for our future. First of all we want to take away | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
Ofsted, because we find that it basically gets the government to go | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
into schools and impose these really stressful situations and teachers | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
that they don't need. How are you going to measure | :36:36. | :36:43. | |
standards if you don't have Ofsted? We believe teachers know what's | :36:44. | :36:45. | |
best for their students. We trust that teachers can | :36:46. | :36:47. | |
teach their students, We also going to take | :36:48. | :36:49. | |
all schools out of the free school and academy system, | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
and put them under local Because every time a new free | :36:56. | :36:57. | |
school or academy opens, it's taking money away | :36:58. | :37:06. | |
from local authority schools. I think every child deserves | :37:07. | :37:08. | |
to have an equal education, no matter where they live | :37:09. | :37:11. | |
or which school they go to. The thing with the green economy | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
is such an important thing. I mean, we need to be focusing | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
on careers for the future. We need to be looking to the future | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
and we need to realise that, that also care work is something | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
that would be automated. You can't really have a robot | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
give somebody the same So we need to value those | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
sorts of jobs more highly Many of the jobs of | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
the future probably haven't On the subject of education, | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
Lisa Smart, can the Liberal Democrats be trusted after | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
what happened over tuition fees? One of the things that we're saying | :37:50. | :38:00. | |
about schooling is that we need What with the aim, as has | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
been mentioned by Lisa, I've been a school governor | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
for the last 13 years and I see our budget | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
forecast doing this. We're going to have | :38:12. | :38:13. | |
to get rid of some staff. That is not how you improve | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
learning for young people. We also need to remember that | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
schools and education, it's not just It's about well-being and I think | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
some of the points that have been made about mental health | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
and about children's mental health One of the things I'm going to give | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
credit to the Conservatives for is a saying that sex | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
and relationship education should That's a positive step | :38:32. | :38:33. | |
forward, I think. It's something Liberal Democrats | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
have been talking about One of the things I'm really keen | :38:38. | :38:39. | |
for it to be is that it's LGBT inclusive across all schools, | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
not just some schools. Let's hear from some | :38:45. | :38:46. | |
of the people over here. It's really positive that we have | :38:47. | :38:48. | |
12.1% youth unemployment in the UK aged 18-25 years old, | :38:49. | :38:50. | |
that's really good. So I think we need to applaud | :38:51. | :38:53. | |
the fact that we're doing incredibly well in our education | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
system as well. Can I just say that it's great | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
that we are supposedly educating But where I'm from in Pendle, | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
not Pendleton, but close by, we have one in four children | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
living in poverty. The majority of these | :39:13. | :39:14. | |
people are working. If we're on zero hours contracts, | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
you know, it's not going Getting people into work | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
is an absolute start, and having the national living wage | :39:22. | :39:28. | |
is very important, too. As I said, we've got 2.9 million | :39:29. | :39:30. | |
more people in work now And part of the problem, | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
and I know Lisa is not a great fan of Jeremy Corbyn, | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
but I have to talk about Corbyn I'm not a great fan | :39:40. | :39:41. | |
of you now, either. But Jeremy Corbyn is the leader | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
leader of your party. Why don't you want to talk | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
about child poverty? Nigel, the point the lady made | :39:50. | :39:51. | |
was about families who are working The national living wage | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
is helping to correct that. But the only way we can do | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
that is by having a strong economy. And Jeremy Corbyn is attacking | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
the very basis of those firms, 1 million children lifted out | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
of poverty and labour, The lady from Pendle, | :40:08. | :40:14. | |
she was rightly concerned about the inability of people | :40:15. | :40:23. | |
at the bottom of our society, the working class, not being | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
able to get a decent wage. Companies, if they are given | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
the choice to employ cheap labour, guess what they're going to do - | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
employ cheap labour. We would have a moratorium | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
on unskilled immigration Very briefly, we are a very divided | :40:38. | :40:39. | |
country, aren't we, Stephanie? I think Tory policies are making | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
us even more divided. And I also think that how we handle | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
post-Brexit Britain is going to be The country was split | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
about the direction that we wanted to take, and we have to listen | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
to both sides as we seek to leave the EU and get | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
the best deal for Britain. The Labour Party's slogan | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
"For the many, not the few". "For the many" were many | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
MPs who tried to get "The few" were those who were left, | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
who served in his Shadow Cabinet. Lisa doesn't want to talk | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
about Jeremy Corbyn. I'd like to talk | :41:23. | :41:24. | |
about child poverty. A lot of candidates don't mention | :41:25. | :41:27. | |
Jeremy Corbyn on their leaflets. On June the 8th it's either | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
going to be Theresa May You mention that the | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
polls have narrowed. What they've narrowed from is a | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
200 seat majority from the Tories to about a 100 seat | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
majority for the Tories. Everybody, the gentleman over there, | :41:43. | :41:44. | |
is fighting for their local MP, for their local champion | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
for their area. As he rightly said, neither | :41:48. | :41:49. | |
Theresa May nor Jeremy Corbyn is standing for election | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
in the north west. It's up to everybody | :41:53. | :41:54. | |
to decide who is the best MP I've got hope that tomorrow can be | :41:55. | :41:56. | |
better than yesterday, or today. Taking us back with grammar schools | :41:57. | :42:08. | |
I think takes us backwards, I think the more we see of Theresa | :42:09. | :42:10. | |
May, the less we can trust her. She told us she was going to | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
bring immigration down to the tens of thousands, and it's | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
still in the hundreds of thousands. However, she will win because | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
the Labour Party is so awful! Thank you, too, to Lisa Smart, | :42:23. | :42:24. | |
to Nigel Evans, to Lisa Nandy, and to Stephanie Pitchers | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
- our panel. Thank you also to you, | :42:31. | :42:32. | |
our audience, and to you at home. We go to the polls a week on | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
Thursday for the general election. It remains to be seen | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
what the outcome is. Thank you very much | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
indeed for watching. You can join in using | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
the hashtag "ElectionNW". The proof of the pudding will be | :42:45. | :42:47. | |
decided in nine days' time. No one was talking of homelessness | :42:48. | :43:15. | |
which is a massive problem. We drifted into fantasy economics, as a | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
small-business owner want be inspired. We have two options, we | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
all want to spend money on our public services. I believe this | :43:25. | :43:32. | |
election is a Brexit election. There's this want to make sure we | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
have the best possible out from Europe. I'm not worried about my own | :43:36. | :43:44. | |
personal status as an EU national but my stepdaughter, she will be | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
deprived of a future where she can work and be together with other EU | :43:48. | :43:49. | |
national is. Hear the arguments | :43:50. | :44:03. | |
from the politicians themselves. | :44:04. | :44:07. |