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Welcome to the BBC Spotlight election debate. | :00:00. | :00:25. | |
Tackling your questions are Anne Marie Morris, | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
standing for the Conservatives in Newton Abbot. | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
Labour's candidate in Exeter, Ben Bradshaw. | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
Fighting Newquay and St Austell for the Liberal Democrats, | :00:40. | :00:41. | |
Ukip's Steve Crowther, who is standing in North Devon. | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
And the Totnes Green Party candidate Jacqi Hodgson. | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
Welcome to all of you. So many questions. Very little time. We are | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
going to go to their profession close to my heart. I come from a | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
family of teachers. Our first question is from | :01:04. | :01:04. | |
Clare Dingwall, who is a teacher. Budget cuts mean there | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
will be ?26 million less going into Cornish secondary | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
schools, with pupil numbers rising. How will you ensure that pupil | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
numbers are protected in real terms? School funding a very hot topic. | :01:12. | :01:21. | |
Let's ago first of all to Anne Marie Morris. Really it's about real | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
terms. How are you going to make things fairer? You are quite right. | :01:28. | :01:35. | |
That is at the heart of what the Conservatives want to do. I have | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
been fighting hard for this fairness. The government have had to | :01:41. | :01:50. | |
gos at getting the formula right. How can you guarantee at? Every | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
member of the panel will make sure that happens. Devon MPs said be in | :01:55. | :02:03. | |
no doubt there must be a proper settlement. It needs to be fair. We | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
mean fair. There must not be any cuts. We will be fighting for | :02:09. | :02:15. | |
Cornwall, fighting for Devon, fighting to ensure the rural | :02:16. | :02:17. | |
community get their fair share. That is the root of the problem. Does not | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
fit at the moment. South schools really do suffer. How are you going | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
to bring that up? The government need to look at how the formula | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
works. More money has been put into the school budget. The problem is | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
the way it has been calculated is not right. The very smallest of | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
rural schools clearly have the challenge of having fixed overheads. | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
That makes it much more difficult to run economically and efficiently. So | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
for them, the funding formula as nearly doubled what they are going | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
to get. That makes no sense. The middle sized schools were losing | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
out. We need to look at something which actually makes sure the | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
schools are properly funded to meet the needs they have. And I think | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
every pupil to have the same basic amount allocated to them. Yes, you | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
need to make adjustments for deprivation. But there must be a | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
basic amount every child gets. Does that make sense, Stephen Gilbert? It | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
is fine words. Unfortunately we have seen from the Conservatives actions | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
that will continue to damage goods across Cornwall. There isn't a | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
single school in my constituency which will gain any money as a | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
result of the Conservative plans for funding. The school I teach at in | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
Saint Austell will lose ?700,000 a year under the Conservative plans. | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
We have seen a lot of talk from the Conservatives, and in some cases | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
Conservative MPs welcoming these changes, but no real action to | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
deliver the education pupils need. We have to make sure that schools | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
don't have the cuts the Conservatives will be imposing. We | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
are clear no school should lose money as a result of the funding | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
formula changes. We need to respect our teachers, respect the job they | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
are doing, investing in our young people as school is one of the best | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
things as a community and as a society we can do. As a teacher, I | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
already see the strain that our schools are under and the damage | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
that is having on pupils meeting their potential. And I make this | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
absolutely clear. This issue will only get worse under the | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
Conservatives. We have only seen talk over two years from the | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
Conservatives. We need real action to save schools in Devon and | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
Cornwall. This is something we were in coalition and both agreed to. We | :04:37. | :04:44. | |
will leave you to fight it out. Ben Bradshaw, do the Labour plans stack | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
up? Yes. To concentrate on the funding formula is a distraction. | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
Our schools are already facing huge budget cuts. My schools are losing | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
hundreds of thousands of pounds a year as are my primary schools. They | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
are laying off teachers, classroom assistants and other staff. The | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
funding formula proposed by the Conservatives would make things | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
worse. We have to reverse these cuts. This is our children's future. | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
We need to invest in skills and education if we are going to succeed | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
as an economy going forward. Labour would reverse those cuts by a small | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
increase in corporation tax. All of our manifesto commitment are fully | :05:29. | :05:29. | |
costed. We have actually published a costings | :05:30. | :05:43. | |
document. The Tories have not even tried to cost their manifesto | :05:44. | :05:45. | |
commitments. Our commitment is to the future generation. Raise that | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
money coming from? A small increase in corporation tax. There will be | :05:49. | :05:50. | |
lowered corporation tax than any other country in Europe. We will be | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
able to save our schools and public services in general. We have to find | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
the money from somewhere. Increased tax borrowing under Labour. Does | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
that make sense? It is clear as we have listened to the promises and | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
plans of the different parties that the only way we will save education | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
and the health service as well is to vote for any party other than the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
Tories. APPLAUSE. | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
Steve Crowther, how are you going to solve the problem? There has been a | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
lot of work on the new national funding formula but that work has | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
unravelled. It keeps being pushed back. Even the new national funding | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
formula admits in its construction that it is unfair. It is based on a | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
lot of historical numbers. And therefore... It is bizarre we are in | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
a situation where in Devon every pupil is ?290 below the national | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
average. And subsequently under the new national formula, 62% of pupils | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
in Devon are still going to be suffering. The formula doesn't work. | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
We have to completely look at the formula again and make it a formula | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
that is fair to every pupil in the country. We also have to bear in | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
mind that there is already a ?2 billion on funded hole in the | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
funding budget. The government does not even know how to fill it. A lot | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
of the prevarication and the fiddling about with this so-called | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
new formula that is supposed to be coming in in 2018-19, is filling an | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
existing hole. That hole is right up there in terms of needing to be | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
filled along with the crisis in national health and social care. | :07:37. | :07:38. | |
Those are the massive priorities anybody will try to fill. You only | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
have to listen to the teachers who to BBC radio Devon. They this -- | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
they -- they say they are losing teachers hand over fist. 20 teachers | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
will be disappearing from one school alone because of this funding | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
formula. Jacqi Hodgson, the Green Party said they wanted to release | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
the education from its circles. How will you do that? Absolutely. That | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
is really important. We are looking to defend the indefensible. What is | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
happening to schools for quite a long time, the political | :08:14. | :08:15. | |
interference in schools, is completely untenable. We are moving | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
the deck chairs all the time. That costs money. This is about switching | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
money from state schools. It is about giving it to the free schools | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
and the academies. We are not on a level playing field. That money is | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
being diverted away. We have had a double whammy. The local authorities | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
with the cuts they faced, that is adding money to pupils as well. More | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
people are losing their jobs. It is completely untenable. But for the | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
children, they are constantly being tested. Constant SAT exams. It is | :08:49. | :08:55. | |
undermining schools. There are better models we could look at where | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
we left teachers get on with teaching and let the children get on | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
with learning. One of the things we would do is actually start bringing | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
children into school later. We have had provision -- not until seven. | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
Children are being over tested, under examined and that costs money | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
instead of letting people get on with teaching. Who is also missing | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
out in the classroom? Children with special needs. The children who have | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
had a lot of extra attention which has allowed them to be part of | :09:26. | :09:27. | |
mainstream education, which is so important. That will be lost as | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
well. This is very wrong. It is totally indefensible. Would | :09:34. | :09:41. | |
you like to say something? Yes. The cuts are huge for all children in | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
all schools. You have just mentioned disabled children. The cuts for | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
disabled children in mainstream and specialist education are just | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
untenable. Our children with learning disabilities and other | :09:55. | :09:56. | |
physical disabilities deserve and have the right to the same education | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
as all other children. So even cutting the budgets for typically | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
developing children, none of you really have touched on the impact of | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
disabled children and their education. My son's School is a | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
mainstream school in Steve's constituency, losing ?400,000. And | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
yet they still continue to find ways to include my severely learning | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
disabled child. I want to know what the panel are going to do to make | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
sure that all children with disabilities are going to be | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
properly included in education. There have been a lot of very good | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
points made. The funding formula is not yet set in stone. We have had a | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
second consultation. We have made the point clearly that many of the | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
panel members have made. I totally take your point with regard to | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
children with disabilities. They do need a special focus. They have been | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
lucky with excellent schools that do that. We can't prejudge where we are | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
going based on the formulae as currently presented because we are | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
committed to changing it, to making it fair. Those with disabilities | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
absolutely need a fair part of this. We said we are going to put ?4 | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
billion into it. One of the other panellists mentioned this. We are in | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
-- looking at ensuring that education is across the piece. When | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
you are an older person coming into work, we look at how you can get | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
back into work. Skills training. We need to look at education in its | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
broadest form and look at how you can make provision, whether it is | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
disabled, whether you are engineering oriented. That is the | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
key. That meets the needs of the individual children. This just isn't | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
good enough. This is a major issue at this general election, one of two | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
major funding holds the Conservative manifesto is silent on. What will | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
happen the social care? No clue. What is the funding formula for | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
education? No clue. They are coming to us asking us for their votes. | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
That is not good enough for a sandy's child. That is not good | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
enough for any of our children. And if the audience do one thing on the | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
back of this discussion tonight, go home, go onto the Internet and find | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
out how much your local primary and secondary schools stand to lose | :12:23. | :12:24. | |
APPLAUSE. APPLAUSE. | :12:25. | :12:35. | |
Steve is talking about figures as they were | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
presented not as the future. The point he makes, we need to ensure | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
this is fair, is right. I think it is better to consult people, ask | :12:44. | :12:53. | |
them what this new formula... Social education is now. Not when | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
you decide to go and look at it and ask everybody what they want. My | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
child is being educated now. He needs funding now. Not in three | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
years' time when the Conservatives decided to get their finger out and | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
do something about it, I'm afraid. APPLAUSE. | :13:10. | :13:18. | |
And that is why this issue is being looked at. I don't want it looking | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
at. I wanted to do it. I take your point. We could talk about this. | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
Sorry for interrupting. I must return to player. As your question | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
been entered? In some respects, yes. We need more immaculate -- action | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
and less, we need to rearrange the formula. Another heat -- heated | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
debate next. We are going onto Brexit. Michael Szabo. Thank you. | :13:44. | :13:55. | |
When the Brexit negotiations occur, what key gains must be won back to | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
prove to the British people that they will receive the Brexit that | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
they voted for last year? Steve Crowther. Do you trust the | :14:09. | :14:16. | |
government in charge to deliver? I'm a little concerned that Theresa May | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
went under some heavy fire this week, cut and ran and got behind, | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
went into cover. I'm a little worried about that. She has two. | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
There are no two ways about it. There isn't really anybody much you | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
doesn't think we are going to leave the European Union. Some people are | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
tying to suggest we can do it without leaving the single market. | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
That would be like doing a weird conjuring trick since the two things | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
are indivisible. Clearly we have to leave. We have to leave with a deal, | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
or an agreement not to have an agreement. But at the end of that | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
day, we are going into negotiations, we have to negotiate very hard | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
because we are going to be negotiated at very hard. We have to | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
come out and take our place in the world with a positive outlook and a | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
positive future, and a strong trading relationship. It has to be a | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
good deal? The deal will be what the deal is. It is not a disaster for us | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
to be just like other nations in the world, particularly big strong ones | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
but at the fifth biggest economy in the world, to trade with the world. | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
That is fine. Lots of other countries manage it. This idea that | :15:24. | :15:33. | |
we will fall a cliff... Are we falling off a cliff? The important | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
thing is fishing. I would like to ask any Brexiteers, what is the | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
short to medium-term economic impact of Brexit? This into bin answers. | :15:45. | :15:51. | |
Ben Bradshaw. -- there seemed to be no answers. It is difficult to | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
answer the question. That assumes we know who voted Leave and Remain. For | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
me the test is, we would be poorer? Will be still have the same good | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
trade? -- will we be poorer? The government has to hold their feet to | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
the fire. Who would buy a home without ever having seen it? That is | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
essentially what Mrs May is asking us to do, give her a blank cheque. I | :16:19. | :16:25. | |
don't think in a democracy we should be prepared to do that. It is very | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
important that Parliament has the right to scrutinise any deal and to | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
vote for it. If you believe in democracy, you have to allow the | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
public the right to change their mind if they are presented with a | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
really, really bad deal. The idea of no deal at all, which Mrs May has | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
also floated, would be catastrophic for our economy. Exeter experienced | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
70% of all of our goods go straight to the European Union. If we put | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
tariffs on those exports and imports, it hits our business, hits | :16:57. | :16:58. | |
jobs and increases prices to consumers. You believe there should | :16:59. | :17:08. | |
be a second vote on the referendum? There should definitely be a second | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
referendum to look at what the deal is. We need to understand what we | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
are being offered. Also, there should be a get out clause, where if | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
we feel what we are offered is not secure enough for this country, not | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
just in terms of finances but in terms of human rights, trading and | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
the environment, some critical things. We have to look at the | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
detail as well. Sweeping statements, which is all we have had so far | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
because of the lack of understanding or lack of real appreciation of what | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
it means to be part of Europe since the 1970s, I think we need to grasp | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
all of that very carefully. People like the farmers, there is a huge | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
farming community in this area that we need to be aware of and protect. | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
They will lose out on subsidies. Maybe we need to look at some of the | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
things that are close to the hearts of the Green Party, giving better | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
value to the producers, the farmers, the fishermen. Clear things we need | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
to be clear about. We need to make sure we know what we're talking | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
about when we leave. Fishing, farming, tourism. What is the most | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
important thing? Should we be voting again? I would say Mr Bradshaw was | :18:19. | :18:28. | |
talking about moving into a house we have never seen. Back in 1975, the | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
whole nation voted to go into in -- an organisation which we were told | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
was a trading organisation of 11 countries which were going to trade | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
without any borders. What a wonderful thing. Nobody said | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
anything about us losing our sovereignty and the other rights | :18:51. | :18:52. | |
which have insidiously been taken away from us. These have slipped in | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
through the back door various governance, Tory and Labour. We have | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
been lied to and lied to again since 1975. | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
There have been arguments about losing our sovereignty. There are | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
only a certain percentage of laws made by the European Union. If the | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
European Union wants to make laws regarding equality and gender, | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
religion are all those other issues, I'm happy for them to legislate so | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
it protects people and promote equality. Do I trust the government | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
of the day to do that? In the same way that people who are ideological | :19:33. | :19:40. | |
me... The European Commissioners are accountable to nobody. They haven't | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
had their books audited for the past 20 years. There are some things that | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
need to be reformed, absolutely. They can do whatever they want | :19:55. | :19:57. | |
without accounting to anybody. It is appalling. I will return to the | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
panel in a minute. A lot of people are incredibly worried about Brexit, | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
EU migrants and the care people receive. We need a good deal, don't | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
wiki macro I think you'll find in the Conservative manifesto it | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
specifically says we will prioritise bringing in and enabling people from | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
the EU to come to meet our needs. We recognise that. But Brexit as a | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
whole and the benefit to this country will enable us if we are | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
successful, to provide more funding and more skill within our on | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
country. The reason we left the EU was because we could not build our | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
economy. We had our hands tied behind our back. We could not enter | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
into a trade deal with other countries. The 28 members that | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
comprise the EU could never meet -- reach agreement. Even the EU | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
admitted there was more opportunity outside the EU in other countries | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
than vice versa. The scaremongering that has been going on, that | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
suddenly things are going to go horribly wrong, actually, there are | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
more jobs, there is more trade, more manufacturing. Do you remember the | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
promise that we would be hitting doom and gloom and it would be | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
awful? It did not happen. And it will not happen. As for the comment | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
about the no deal, let's forget the scaremongering. The reality is that | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
clearly we want a deal. And indeed the Germans and the French, the | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
business community, are putting pressure on their governments. If | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
there are tariffs introduced alongside -- along WTO lines, the | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
people who will hurt most are the Europeans, not the Brits. | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
Stephen Gilbert. Let's try to remember one of the other promises | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
they came out during the referendum campaign. Remember the big red boss | :21:50. | :21:58. | |
Mac? That one that promised money for the NHS? Where has that money | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
gone? What about the money that Cornwall gets, the billions of | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
pounds that Cornwall gets, added to by other European funds? The reality | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
of this is that the country started the process last year. We now have | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
to have the negotiations. We need to know what is going to happen to | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
migrant labour for our tourism and agricultural industries. How are we | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
going to continue to develop our infrastructure? What access will be | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
get to the single market? I think it is right that people started this | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
process with a referendum. Let's see what the deal is and let the people | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
and the process, too. Now we're back to kick -- activated | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
Article 50, surely we can't change our position? There is no point in | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
going back to the electorate because we can't change it. Yes we can. How | :22:50. | :22:57. | |
do we do that? The first vote was a vote in principle. Fair enough, it's | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
democracy. The people voted to come out. But the Remainers and the | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
Brexiteers waterboarding blind. I didn't know the price or the | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
consequences. When the deal was finally made, whatever it is, the | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
people should have another referendum when the know the facts. | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
Then they can decide sensibly whether to come in or out. Why are | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
the Brexiteer is so afraid of this second choice? Why didn't you know | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
what you were voting for a? We were paying attention. I don't agree with | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
that at all. I'm 75 now, and I have voted in every election I could. | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
Never Conservative. But for the first time ever I am seriously | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
considering it. One of the reasons is Brexit and the ability of the | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
Conservatives to negotiate and get a good solid deal. I think the Lib | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
Dems and Labour, both parties I have voted for in the past, are dancing | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
on the point of a pin. I voted to go into the European Common Market. But | :24:03. | :24:10. | |
I voted to leave this time. A valid decision. I accept that decision. | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
Get the best deal we can. That is what we should be doing. | :24:15. | :24:23. | |
16 to 18-year-olds didn't get a say in the referendum. Fair enough. How | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
can we apply to university 's? How can the government safeguard | :24:29. | :24:30. | |
University funding per student in the UK to go to university across | :24:31. | :24:38. | |
Europe? And funding is -- funding for charities for young people in | :24:39. | :24:40. | |
this country? How can you guarantee the funding is going to be left in a | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
hole and young people's services aren't going to be The headlines: | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
more detrimentally? It is not going to happen. There is a misconception | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
you have to be a member of the EU to participate in these programmes. | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
There are many countries who do participate in these projects | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
despite not being part of the EU. It is a misnomer that we are going to | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
be losing more of this. We are not. We will always be good Europeans. We | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
will absolutely still have access to many schemes. Many countries who are | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
not European Union members do have access. There is no reason for | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
concern. We have a proud reputation in education and research. We have | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
been driving many of the research projects. I think with the best will | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
in the world, you need not fear that we will not listen. The young people | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
absolutely must be the core of our future. Should 16 to 18-year-olds be | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
given a say in this election and the next one? Definitely. Labour Party | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
policy for a long time has been to give 16 to 18-year-olds the vote. We | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
tried to get that in the referendum. Did your generation's future at | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
stake. You had no voice. And yet the referendum was carried largely by | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
the vote of older people who sadly will not be around as long as you | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
are. We are rehearsing -- rehashing the old arguments. You can't turn | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
the clock back. Talk of a second referendum is not realistic. What we | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
must have is proper scrutiny in our democracy, in Parliament, of the | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
deal. No blank cheque for Mrs May to do whatever she wants, however | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
destructive, however bad for jobs and prosperity in the south-west, in | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
places like Exeter, I won't allow my people to lose their jobs and | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
prosperity based on the ideology of people like Anne-Marie Morris. | :26:29. | :26:36. | |
It is just what we need, another vote, another election. David | :26:37. | :26:44. | |
Stanbury. Why shouldn't those who own their | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
own homes, which are on average worth a quarter of a million now, | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
pay for their own domiciliary care? Those who could never afford to buy | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
and rent instead, have to pay if they have total assets of more than | :27:00. | :27:06. | |
?23,000. Social care has been a hot topic. Ben Bradshaw? Let's be clear | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
about what the Conservative manifesto proposal is for the | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
so-called dementia tax. It is for anybody with acids are a home worth | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
?100,000 or more, if they are unfortunate to get dementia, they | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
would have to pay the full costs of that over and above the ?100,000. | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
That creates a lottery. If you munch burgers all your life and dropped | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
dead of a heart attack, you don't lose your assets. Your children | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
inherit them. We want a National Care Service like the principles of | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
the NHS where we all pay in a bid through general taxation or a small | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
levy on all of our Estates, posthumous leak after death, that is | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
a fairer way of doing it. It is not a lottery. You are not penalising | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
people unfortunate enough to get a long-term condition. We still don't | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
know the Conservative policy. While Theresa May said they would | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
introduce a cab, you can't have a system with no cup on payments, she | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
then there would be no change. What is it. --? They want us to sign a | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
blank cheque. What other manifesto commitments is worth the paper | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
they're written on. It is unfair policy that is not supported by any | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
experts. I think the Conservatives need to be clear about the | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
proposals, so people worried about their futures and the children | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
worried about their parents' futures are clear what they are voting for. | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
With respect, Ben, I don't think you have interpreted the policy as it | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
is. Where we are now, basically, because social care is means tested, | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
everything you have commented in your home, can be used to meet the | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
cost. What Teresa is suggesting is that there should be a cab. At the | :28:57. | :29:05. | |
other end of the scale if you're renting, and you don't have much by | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
way of assets, you will be left with the last 100,000 to spend. 23,000 is | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
most derisory. It seems to me what she is offering is better, not | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
worse. She is also saying he will not have to sell your home while you | :29:21. | :29:28. | |
are having to -- care. At the moment that is not true. You could be | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
thrown out of your house and it could be sold. That seems to me a | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
good time. You absolutely would keep your home, May. Clearly there needs | :29:37. | :29:46. | |
to be a contribution. But there needs to be a cab. The fact he will | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
not have to sell your house, which you would have to do if the law | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
remains the same, it seems to me is a good thing. This new pulling | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
together of health and social care, more cost. It is going to go on | :29:59. | :30:05. | |
something else. Do you really think that anything should be said -- set | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
at this point? So far we have talked about school cuts and the | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
Conservative plans for those. They are out for consultation. We have | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
been asked to trust you about Brexit and give Theresa May a blank cheque | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
without coming back to Parliament draw the people. Now you say, trust | :30:24. | :30:30. | |
us. And you call this a wicked lottery. I want to be in a country | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
where if you get ill, if you require social care in later years, if you | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
are older and vulnerable, you are looked after by everybody else. That | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
is how we judge our society. How we look after the most weak and | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
vulnerable. Jacqi Hodgson, the Greens would like a confident, | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
caring Britain? Absolutely. That would be based on a fully funded | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
NHS. That includes social care. Where is the money? We wouldn't be | :31:00. | :31:07. | |
funding trident. That brings in a lot of money. There is some disquiet | :31:08. | :31:15. | |
about that. Let's think about how we can fund the NHS properly. We have a | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
fear factor. Everything is based on fear. Fearful of losing a education. | :31:20. | :31:28. | |
A headmaster said in two years he does know what is bound to happen to | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
the school. People are worried about losing their hospitals. This social | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
care has put the fear of everything into people who are carers, the | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
people there a time to look after. People will not want to lean on | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
their families because they will be trying to cut the costs. It is one | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
mess on top of another. I think it is not reasonable. To take the | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
attitude, people of God to pay, we are already paying through income | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
tax and national insurance, through local rates. We are paying all sorts | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
of different funding. To suggest if you wanted you have to pay more. It | :32:02. | :32:08. | |
cuts through society. A devastating death tax, you have called it? The | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
important thing we have to understand is we are facing a | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
massive demographic crisis. Keeping the health service and social care | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
separate is ludicrous. We have to integrate them because they are the | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
same, quite clearly. Then we have to admit the size of the problem that | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
we have got. That is to do with a rising population are an ageing | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
population and a massive increase in people were going to suffer from | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
dementia in the next 20 to 30 years. We have to confront this. The Ukip | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
manifesto basically says we will get money from anywhere we can find it, | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
and we will put it all there, basically. Because even that, and | :32:49. | :32:56. | |
that is 34 million over the next five years, 34 billion, even that is | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
barely going to help us to cope with the situation we're in. And when we | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
talk about funding this problem, what we are talking about is you | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
guys funding it. You young people funding it. This is a one-off deal, | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
this thing with the houses. All the houses get sold but you are still | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
paying. And how do you build up the wealth to do that again in your | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
term? There is a massive crisis and we need to understand this is about | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
supply and demand. It is about the promise of the health service and a | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
demographic issue we have to confront. There is nothing more | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
important. I work in a private company that | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
offers services for the NHS. I can see that all the time the NHS is on | :33:43. | :33:49. | |
its knees. Just by saying that, taxpayers will pay for everyone is | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
alive. To be clear, let's use that word politicians like, there are | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
just two parties who will form government. The Conservatives and | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
Labour. Labour proved after 13 years in power that they can borrow | :34:03. | :34:09. | |
better. Give a lot of free and don't ask for anything in return. And in | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
the end, they had a letter saying, there is no more money. Then we had | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
the Conservatives. They came, they stopped funds. So now I say between | :34:21. | :34:29. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May there is no match. We need someone who | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
says, guys I'm going to give you something but take something in | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
return. As the government has said from year one, they always said, a | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
country needs to leave -- live within its means. So I am | :34:46. | :34:55. | |
conservative. I was Conservative before. I am now and will always be. | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
I cannot see anybody else to leave the country better than Theresa May. | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
Ben Bradshaw. Change this gentleman's mind? Good for you, sir. | :35:07. | :35:13. | |
After 13 years of Labour government public satisfaction with the NHS was | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
at record levels, waiting times were at record lows and staff morale at | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
record highs. That has gone into reverse under the Conservatives. For | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
11 of those years until the global financial crash, this country | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
enjoyed the longest period of sustainable economic growth and | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
rising living standards in our history. | :35:34. | :35:41. | |
I would like to point out the size of the PFI debt we were saddled with | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
at the end of that process. Which you are going to pay for. That is | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
called a mortgage. Have you ever had one? We're running out of time. That | :35:52. | :36:00. | |
is clearly an important topic. Listening to radio Devon and radio | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
Cornwall it is a distressing one as well. Let's go to Tricia. | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
Given that the South West has high property prices but relatively low | :36:11. | :36:18. | |
wage levels, how are my two sons supposed to get a foot on the | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
property ladder? They would not have a problem meeting the monthly | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
repayments, but they have a problem getting banks or building societies | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
to lend them the amounts of money they need around here to buy a house | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
of their own. What is your solution, please? Jacqi Hodgson. You must | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
speak to young people every day and, across this? Ideal and I am about | :36:42. | :36:50. | |
planning. -- I do. We are driving our young people away from the | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
south-west. I think it is wrong. The planning framework that came out in | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
2010 is a developer's Charter. We need more houses but we don't need | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
the type of houses that our high cost. The so-called affordable are | :37:06. | :37:14. | |
about 80% of the housing prices. Young people will not get a foot on | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
the ladder. The landlords are laughing all the way to the bank. | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
They can buy these houses and rent them out at higher rents. We have to | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
find ways to improve this so we actually improve the planning | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
framework. The planning framework needs to be looked at. We have to | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
make it more possible to have more creative planning. For example, | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
developers can come in, greenfield sites, but in big amounts of money. | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
After the costings have happened, they can add on 25% to the profit | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
they walk away with at the end. Who pays the price? We don't get the | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
social housing and we barely get the affordable housing. The joint local | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
plan is recommending only 30% of that is affordable. We need far more | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
than that. It was 60% in rural areas. I agree with every word of | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
that. There are two the things we need to do. The first is allowed | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
councils to build council houses again. -- allow. The Conservatives | :38:12. | :38:21. | |
stop this happening by preventing local authorities from being able to | :38:22. | :38:23. | |
borrow money to build council houses. It is an easy change. It is | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
something Anne-Marie Green could commit the government to today if | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
she wanted. I'm quite sure she won't. We need to build more council | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
homes. The second thing we need to do is tackle the issue that the lady | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
raised of affordability on a monthly basis. That is why the Liberal | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
Democrats are talking about a rent to buy scheme, where we have a new | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
type of housing, a new tenure, so you pay your rent each month and | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
already 30 years of that period you increase your equity in a house. | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
Similar to a mortgage, clearly, but not quite a mortgage. A new way of | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
enabling younger people to buy homes. This is a real problem. In | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
Cornwall, in my constituency, the gap is ten times the average house | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
price to the average salary. There is a generation of young people who | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
will never be able to get onto the housing ladder unless we take | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
significant action. Anne-Marie Morris, this is a desperate | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
situation for many people. What are you going to do? The White Paper | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
came out before the election looking at this issue. Just like social | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
care, actually. We have been brave enough to say there are problems, | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
let's face up to them. Housing is a real issue. The issue for your | :39:38. | :39:44. | |
youngsters is accepted and taken on board. Supply and demand, you need | :39:45. | :39:51. | |
to increase the number of houses. We have a strategy to build more | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
houses. We build more than Labour did, though I'm sure they would | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
dispute that. That said, what we need to do is find ways of | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
encouraging developers to build. Historically we have encouraged them | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
when they are building to buy rather than rent. We are going to stop them | :40:07. | :40:18. | |
taking land and developing it. There are a number of different schemes. | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
We are building more social housing. And I mean social rather than | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
affordable. The scheme behind that will enable youngsters to get their | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
feet on the housing ladder. They will go in and rent first and over | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
time they will be given the option to buy. It will be recycled. | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
Whatever then gets bored, gets recycled. I don't honestly think the | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
councils should become experts in house-building. Councils should | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
organise and ensure the right things are done. Housing associations do a | :40:48. | :40:58. | |
pretty bloody good job. Steve Crowther. We must hear from Steve | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
Crowther. Do you agree with this? No. It's very clear that there are a | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
number of fundamental things we have to do in this market. We have to | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
take it out of the hands of large developers. Large developers have | :41:14. | :41:15. | |
been the engine for the government's policy analyst billing for the last | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
seven years, and it has completely failed. Basically they have | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
sophisticated means of getting planning permission, banking large | :41:23. | :41:30. | |
amount of planning land and deciding not to build. We have to make small | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
developers build small developments. We also have to do something which | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
doesn't cut out the value, take value out of the existing housing | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
market. If we take value out of the existing housing market by flooding | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
the market with new houses that compete with the existing housing | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
market, who will pay for the social care? We can't just dropped | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
everybody's Wealth by saying we are bound to make everybody's has | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
cheaper. We need a new tranche of housing. We need to create a new | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
tranche of cheaper but now very much better factory built housing that | :42:05. | :42:12. | |
can be built through a national housing development Corporation and | :42:13. | :42:14. | |
compulsorily purchased land on small plots where they are needed, and | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
built using skills needed locally, providing jobs and houses locally. | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
If you can do that on average, somebody in a ?26,000 salary would | :42:27. | :42:29. | |
be able to buy their own two-bedroom home. That would create the answer | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
to the problem because it is putting the bottom rung of the ladder back | :42:34. | :42:35. | |
in, without actually destroying the ladder. Perfect solution, Ben | :42:36. | :42:43. | |
Bradshaw? I agree with much of that. Anne-Marie Green talks about a white | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
paper. That is another consultation. You have had seven years. This is | :42:49. | :42:55. | |
the biggest issue facing my constituents in the south-west. | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
Housing affordability. We have to free up local authorities to build | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
more houses. We have to do more to control the private rental sector. A | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
lot of people are forced into the private rental sector. Extortionate | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
rents. Even in America they have rent controls. We have to tackle | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
that. It is not fair and future generations. And indeed the parents | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
having to put up with it. 60,000 people in the south-west are for a | :43:24. | :43:32. | |
council house or affordable home. We don't have any more time at all. We | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
could talk about many more things. Thank you to are panellists and our | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
audience. Hopefully we have answered some of your questions. Like you for | :43:42. | :43:43. | |
joining us. Thanks everybody. APPLAUSE. | :43:44. | :44:03. | |
Hear the arguments from the politicians themselves. | :44:04. | :44:07. |