South West Election 2017: Where You Live


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Welcome to the BBC Spotlight election debate.

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Tackling your questions are Anne Marie Morris,

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standing for the Conservatives in Newton Abbot.

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Labour's candidate in Exeter, Ben Bradshaw.

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Fighting Newquay and St Austell for the Liberal Democrats,

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Ukip's Steve Crowther, who is standing in North Devon.

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And the Totnes Green Party candidate Jacqi Hodgson.

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Welcome to all of you. So many questions. Very little time. We are

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going to go to their profession close to my heart. I come from a

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family of teachers. Our first question is from

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Clare Dingwall, who is a teacher. Budget cuts mean there

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will be ?26 million less going into Cornish secondary

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schools, with pupil numbers rising. How will you ensure that pupil

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numbers are protected in real terms? School funding a very hot topic.

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Let's ago first of all to Anne Marie Morris. Really it's about real

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terms. How are you going to make things fairer? You are quite right.

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That is at the heart of what the Conservatives want to do. I have

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been fighting hard for this fairness. The government have had to

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gos at getting the formula right. How can you guarantee at? Every

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member of the panel will make sure that happens. Devon MPs said be in

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no doubt there must be a proper settlement. It needs to be fair. We

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mean fair. There must not be any cuts. We will be fighting for

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Cornwall, fighting for Devon, fighting to ensure the rural

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community get their fair share. That is the root of the problem. Does not

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fit at the moment. South schools really do suffer. How are you going

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to bring that up? The government need to look at how the formula

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works. More money has been put into the school budget. The problem is

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the way it has been calculated is not right. The very smallest of

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rural schools clearly have the challenge of having fixed overheads.

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That makes it much more difficult to run economically and efficiently. So

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for them, the funding formula as nearly doubled what they are going

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to get. That makes no sense. The middle sized schools were losing

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out. We need to look at something which actually makes sure the

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schools are properly funded to meet the needs they have. And I think

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every pupil to have the same basic amount allocated to them. Yes, you

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need to make adjustments for deprivation. But there must be a

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basic amount every child gets. Does that make sense, Stephen Gilbert? It

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is fine words. Unfortunately we have seen from the Conservatives actions

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that will continue to damage goods across Cornwall. There isn't a

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single school in my constituency which will gain any money as a

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result of the Conservative plans for funding. The school I teach at in

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Saint Austell will lose ?700,000 a year under the Conservative plans.

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We have seen a lot of talk from the Conservatives, and in some cases

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Conservative MPs welcoming these changes, but no real action to

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deliver the education pupils need. We have to make sure that schools

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don't have the cuts the Conservatives will be imposing. We

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are clear no school should lose money as a result of the funding

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formula changes. We need to respect our teachers, respect the job they

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are doing, investing in our young people as school is one of the best

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things as a community and as a society we can do. As a teacher, I

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already see the strain that our schools are under and the damage

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that is having on pupils meeting their potential. And I make this

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absolutely clear. This issue will only get worse under the

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Conservatives. We have only seen talk over two years from the

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Conservatives. We need real action to save schools in Devon and

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Cornwall. This is something we were in coalition and both agreed to. We

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will leave you to fight it out. Ben Bradshaw, do the Labour plans stack

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up? Yes. To concentrate on the funding formula is a distraction.

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Our schools are already facing huge budget cuts. My schools are losing

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hundreds of thousands of pounds a year as are my primary schools. They

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are laying off teachers, classroom assistants and other staff. The

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funding formula proposed by the Conservatives would make things

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worse. We have to reverse these cuts. This is our children's future.

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We need to invest in skills and education if we are going to succeed

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as an economy going forward. Labour would reverse those cuts by a small

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increase in corporation tax. All of our manifesto commitment are fully

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costed. We have actually published a costings

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document. The Tories have not even tried to cost their manifesto

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commitments. Our commitment is to the future generation. Raise that

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money coming from? A small increase in corporation tax. There will be

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lowered corporation tax than any other country in Europe. We will be

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able to save our schools and public services in general. We have to find

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the money from somewhere. Increased tax borrowing under Labour. Does

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that make sense? It is clear as we have listened to the promises and

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plans of the different parties that the only way we will save education

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and the health service as well is to vote for any party other than the

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Tories. APPLAUSE.

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Steve Crowther, how are you going to solve the problem? There has been a

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lot of work on the new national funding formula but that work has

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unravelled. It keeps being pushed back. Even the new national funding

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formula admits in its construction that it is unfair. It is based on a

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lot of historical numbers. And therefore... It is bizarre we are in

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a situation where in Devon every pupil is ?290 below the national

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average. And subsequently under the new national formula, 62% of pupils

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in Devon are still going to be suffering. The formula doesn't work.

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We have to completely look at the formula again and make it a formula

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that is fair to every pupil in the country. We also have to bear in

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mind that there is already a ?2 billion on funded hole in the

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funding budget. The government does not even know how to fill it. A lot

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of the prevarication and the fiddling about with this so-called

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new formula that is supposed to be coming in in 2018-19, is filling an

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existing hole. That hole is right up there in terms of needing to be

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filled along with the crisis in national health and social care.

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Those are the massive priorities anybody will try to fill. You only

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have to listen to the teachers who to BBC radio Devon. They this --

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they -- they say they are losing teachers hand over fist. 20 teachers

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will be disappearing from one school alone because of this funding

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formula. Jacqi Hodgson, the Green Party said they wanted to release

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the education from its circles. How will you do that? Absolutely. That

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is really important. We are looking to defend the indefensible. What is

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happening to schools for quite a long time, the political

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interference in schools, is completely untenable. We are moving

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the deck chairs all the time. That costs money. This is about switching

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money from state schools. It is about giving it to the free schools

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and the academies. We are not on a level playing field. That money is

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being diverted away. We have had a double whammy. The local authorities

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with the cuts they faced, that is adding money to pupils as well. More

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people are losing their jobs. It is completely untenable. But for the

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children, they are constantly being tested. Constant SAT exams. It is

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undermining schools. There are better models we could look at where

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we left teachers get on with teaching and let the children get on

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with learning. One of the things we would do is actually start bringing

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children into school later. We have had provision -- not until seven.

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Children are being over tested, under examined and that costs money

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instead of letting people get on with teaching. Who is also missing

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out in the classroom? Children with special needs. The children who have

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had a lot of extra attention which has allowed them to be part of

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mainstream education, which is so important. That will be lost as

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well. This is very wrong. It is totally indefensible. Would

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you like to say something? Yes. The cuts are huge for all children in

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all schools. You have just mentioned disabled children. The cuts for

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disabled children in mainstream and specialist education are just

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untenable. Our children with learning disabilities and other

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physical disabilities deserve and have the right to the same education

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as all other children. So even cutting the budgets for typically

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developing children, none of you really have touched on the impact of

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disabled children and their education. My son's School is a

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mainstream school in Steve's constituency, losing ?400,000. And

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yet they still continue to find ways to include my severely learning

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disabled child. I want to know what the panel are going to do to make

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sure that all children with disabilities are going to be

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properly included in education. There have been a lot of very good

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points made. The funding formula is not yet set in stone. We have had a

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second consultation. We have made the point clearly that many of the

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panel members have made. I totally take your point with regard to

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children with disabilities. They do need a special focus. They have been

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lucky with excellent schools that do that. We can't prejudge where we are

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going based on the formulae as currently presented because we are

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committed to changing it, to making it fair. Those with disabilities

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absolutely need a fair part of this. We said we are going to put ?4

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billion into it. One of the other panellists mentioned this. We are in

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-- looking at ensuring that education is across the piece. When

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you are an older person coming into work, we look at how you can get

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back into work. Skills training. We need to look at education in its

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broadest form and look at how you can make provision, whether it is

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disabled, whether you are engineering oriented. That is the

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key. That meets the needs of the individual children. This just isn't

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good enough. This is a major issue at this general election, one of two

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major funding holds the Conservative manifesto is silent on. What will

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happen the social care? No clue. What is the funding formula for

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education? No clue. They are coming to us asking us for their votes.

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That is not good enough for a sandy's child. That is not good

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enough for any of our children. And if the audience do one thing on the

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back of this discussion tonight, go home, go onto the Internet and find

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out how much your local primary and secondary schools stand to lose

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APPLAUSE. APPLAUSE.

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Steve is talking about figures as they were

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presented not as the future. The point he makes, we need to ensure

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this is fair, is right. I think it is better to consult people, ask

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them what this new formula... Social education is now. Not when

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you decide to go and look at it and ask everybody what they want. My

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child is being educated now. He needs funding now. Not in three

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years' time when the Conservatives decided to get their finger out and

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do something about it, I'm afraid. APPLAUSE.

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And that is why this issue is being looked at. I don't want it looking

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at. I wanted to do it. I take your point. We could talk about this.

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Sorry for interrupting. I must return to player. As your question

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been entered? In some respects, yes. We need more immaculate -- action

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and less, we need to rearrange the formula. Another heat -- heated

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debate next. We are going onto Brexit. Michael Szabo. Thank you.

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When the Brexit negotiations occur, what key gains must be won back to

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prove to the British people that they will receive the Brexit that

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they voted for last year? Steve Crowther. Do you trust the

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government in charge to deliver? I'm a little concerned that Theresa May

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went under some heavy fire this week, cut and ran and got behind,

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went into cover. I'm a little worried about that. She has two.

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There are no two ways about it. There isn't really anybody much you

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doesn't think we are going to leave the European Union. Some people are

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tying to suggest we can do it without leaving the single market.

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That would be like doing a weird conjuring trick since the two things

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are indivisible. Clearly we have to leave. We have to leave with a deal,

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or an agreement not to have an agreement. But at the end of that

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day, we are going into negotiations, we have to negotiate very hard

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because we are going to be negotiated at very hard. We have to

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come out and take our place in the world with a positive outlook and a

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positive future, and a strong trading relationship. It has to be a

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good deal? The deal will be what the deal is. It is not a disaster for us

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to be just like other nations in the world, particularly big strong ones

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but at the fifth biggest economy in the world, to trade with the world.

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That is fine. Lots of other countries manage it. This idea that

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we will fall a cliff... Are we falling off a cliff? The important

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thing is fishing. I would like to ask any Brexiteers, what is the

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short to medium-term economic impact of Brexit? This into bin answers.

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Ben Bradshaw. -- there seemed to be no answers. It is difficult to

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answer the question. That assumes we know who voted Leave and Remain. For

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me the test is, we would be poorer? Will be still have the same good

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trade? -- will we be poorer? The government has to hold their feet to

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the fire. Who would buy a home without ever having seen it? That is

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essentially what Mrs May is asking us to do, give her a blank cheque. I

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don't think in a democracy we should be prepared to do that. It is very

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important that Parliament has the right to scrutinise any deal and to

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vote for it. If you believe in democracy, you have to allow the

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public the right to change their mind if they are presented with a

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really, really bad deal. The idea of no deal at all, which Mrs May has

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also floated, would be catastrophic for our economy. Exeter experienced

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70% of all of our goods go straight to the European Union. If we put

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tariffs on those exports and imports, it hits our business, hits

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jobs and increases prices to consumers. You believe there should

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be a second vote on the referendum? There should definitely be a second

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referendum to look at what the deal is. We need to understand what we

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are being offered. Also, there should be a get out clause, where if

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we feel what we are offered is not secure enough for this country, not

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just in terms of finances but in terms of human rights, trading and

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the environment, some critical things. We have to look at the

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detail as well. Sweeping statements, which is all we have had so far

:17:36.:17:39.

because of the lack of understanding or lack of real appreciation of what

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it means to be part of Europe since the 1970s, I think we need to grasp

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all of that very carefully. People like the farmers, there is a huge

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farming community in this area that we need to be aware of and protect.

:17:53.:17:57.

They will lose out on subsidies. Maybe we need to look at some of the

:17:58.:18:01.

things that are close to the hearts of the Green Party, giving better

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value to the producers, the farmers, the fishermen. Clear things we need

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to be clear about. We need to make sure we know what we're talking

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about when we leave. Fishing, farming, tourism. What is the most

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important thing? Should we be voting again? I would say Mr Bradshaw was

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talking about moving into a house we have never seen. Back in 1975, the

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whole nation voted to go into in -- an organisation which we were told

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was a trading organisation of 11 countries which were going to trade

:18:40.:18:44.

without any borders. What a wonderful thing. Nobody said

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anything about us losing our sovereignty and the other rights

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which have insidiously been taken away from us. These have slipped in

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through the back door various governance, Tory and Labour. We have

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been lied to and lied to again since 1975.

:19:04.:19:10.

There have been arguments about losing our sovereignty. There are

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only a certain percentage of laws made by the European Union. If the

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European Union wants to make laws regarding equality and gender,

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religion are all those other issues, I'm happy for them to legislate so

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it protects people and promote equality. Do I trust the government

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of the day to do that? In the same way that people who are ideological

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me... The European Commissioners are accountable to nobody. They haven't

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had their books audited for the past 20 years. There are some things that

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need to be reformed, absolutely. They can do whatever they want

:19:55.:19:57.

without accounting to anybody. It is appalling. I will return to the

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panel in a minute. A lot of people are incredibly worried about Brexit,

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EU migrants and the care people receive. We need a good deal, don't

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wiki macro I think you'll find in the Conservative manifesto it

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specifically says we will prioritise bringing in and enabling people from

:20:18.:20:21.

the EU to come to meet our needs. We recognise that. But Brexit as a

:20:22.:20:27.

whole and the benefit to this country will enable us if we are

:20:28.:20:32.

successful, to provide more funding and more skill within our on

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country. The reason we left the EU was because we could not build our

:20:38.:20:41.

economy. We had our hands tied behind our back. We could not enter

:20:42.:20:45.

into a trade deal with other countries. The 28 members that

:20:46.:20:50.

comprise the EU could never meet -- reach agreement. Even the EU

:20:51.:20:53.

admitted there was more opportunity outside the EU in other countries

:20:54.:20:58.

than vice versa. The scaremongering that has been going on, that

:20:59.:21:01.

suddenly things are going to go horribly wrong, actually, there are

:21:02.:21:06.

more jobs, there is more trade, more manufacturing. Do you remember the

:21:07.:21:10.

promise that we would be hitting doom and gloom and it would be

:21:11.:21:14.

awful? It did not happen. And it will not happen. As for the comment

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about the no deal, let's forget the scaremongering. The reality is that

:21:22.:21:25.

clearly we want a deal. And indeed the Germans and the French, the

:21:26.:21:29.

business community, are putting pressure on their governments. If

:21:30.:21:35.

there are tariffs introduced alongside -- along WTO lines, the

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people who will hurt most are the Europeans, not the Brits.

:21:40.:21:46.

Stephen Gilbert. Let's try to remember one of the other promises

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they came out during the referendum campaign. Remember the big red boss

:21:50.:21:58.

Mac? That one that promised money for the NHS? Where has that money

:21:59.:22:02.

gone? What about the money that Cornwall gets, the billions of

:22:03.:22:08.

pounds that Cornwall gets, added to by other European funds? The reality

:22:09.:22:15.

of this is that the country started the process last year. We now have

:22:16.:22:19.

to have the negotiations. We need to know what is going to happen to

:22:20.:22:24.

migrant labour for our tourism and agricultural industries. How are we

:22:25.:22:28.

going to continue to develop our infrastructure? What access will be

:22:29.:22:32.

get to the single market? I think it is right that people started this

:22:33.:22:36.

process with a referendum. Let's see what the deal is and let the people

:22:37.:22:40.

and the process, too. Now we're back to kick -- activated

:22:41.:22:44.

Article 50, surely we can't change our position? There is no point in

:22:45.:22:49.

going back to the electorate because we can't change it. Yes we can. How

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do we do that? The first vote was a vote in principle. Fair enough, it's

:22:58.:23:03.

democracy. The people voted to come out. But the Remainers and the

:23:04.:23:08.

Brexiteers waterboarding blind. I didn't know the price or the

:23:09.:23:13.

consequences. When the deal was finally made, whatever it is, the

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people should have another referendum when the know the facts.

:23:17.:23:21.

Then they can decide sensibly whether to come in or out. Why are

:23:22.:23:26.

the Brexiteer is so afraid of this second choice? Why didn't you know

:23:27.:23:32.

what you were voting for a? We were paying attention. I don't agree with

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that at all. I'm 75 now, and I have voted in every election I could.

:23:40.:23:44.

Never Conservative. But for the first time ever I am seriously

:23:45.:23:47.

considering it. One of the reasons is Brexit and the ability of the

:23:48.:23:53.

Conservatives to negotiate and get a good solid deal. I think the Lib

:23:54.:23:58.

Dems and Labour, both parties I have voted for in the past, are dancing

:23:59.:24:02.

on the point of a pin. I voted to go into the European Common Market. But

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I voted to leave this time. A valid decision. I accept that decision.

:24:11.:24:14.

Get the best deal we can. That is what we should be doing.

:24:15.:24:23.

16 to 18-year-olds didn't get a say in the referendum. Fair enough. How

:24:24.:24:28.

can we apply to university 's? How can the government safeguard

:24:29.:24:30.

University funding per student in the UK to go to university across

:24:31.:24:38.

Europe? And funding is -- funding for charities for young people in

:24:39.:24:40.

this country? How can you guarantee the funding is going to be left in a

:24:41.:24:44.

hole and young people's services aren't going to be The headlines:

:24:45.:24:49.

more detrimentally? It is not going to happen. There is a misconception

:24:50.:24:53.

you have to be a member of the EU to participate in these programmes.

:24:54.:24:57.

There are many countries who do participate in these projects

:24:58.:25:00.

despite not being part of the EU. It is a misnomer that we are going to

:25:01.:25:05.

be losing more of this. We are not. We will always be good Europeans. We

:25:06.:25:09.

will absolutely still have access to many schemes. Many countries who are

:25:10.:25:15.

not European Union members do have access. There is no reason for

:25:16.:25:19.

concern. We have a proud reputation in education and research. We have

:25:20.:25:23.

been driving many of the research projects. I think with the best will

:25:24.:25:26.

in the world, you need not fear that we will not listen. The young people

:25:27.:25:30.

absolutely must be the core of our future. Should 16 to 18-year-olds be

:25:31.:25:36.

given a say in this election and the next one? Definitely. Labour Party

:25:37.:25:42.

policy for a long time has been to give 16 to 18-year-olds the vote. We

:25:43.:25:47.

tried to get that in the referendum. Did your generation's future at

:25:48.:25:54.

stake. You had no voice. And yet the referendum was carried largely by

:25:55.:25:57.

the vote of older people who sadly will not be around as long as you

:25:58.:26:02.

are. We are rehearsing -- rehashing the old arguments. You can't turn

:26:03.:26:06.

the clock back. Talk of a second referendum is not realistic. What we

:26:07.:26:11.

must have is proper scrutiny in our democracy, in Parliament, of the

:26:12.:26:15.

deal. No blank cheque for Mrs May to do whatever she wants, however

:26:16.:26:19.

destructive, however bad for jobs and prosperity in the south-west, in

:26:20.:26:24.

places like Exeter, I won't allow my people to lose their jobs and

:26:25.:26:28.

prosperity based on the ideology of people like Anne-Marie Morris.

:26:29.:26:36.

It is just what we need, another vote, another election. David

:26:37.:26:44.

Stanbury. Why shouldn't those who own their

:26:45.:26:49.

own homes, which are on average worth a quarter of a million now,

:26:50.:26:53.

pay for their own domiciliary care? Those who could never afford to buy

:26:54.:26:59.

and rent instead, have to pay if they have total assets of more than

:27:00.:27:06.

?23,000. Social care has been a hot topic. Ben Bradshaw? Let's be clear

:27:07.:27:10.

about what the Conservative manifesto proposal is for the

:27:11.:27:15.

so-called dementia tax. It is for anybody with acids are a home worth

:27:16.:27:21.

?100,000 or more, if they are unfortunate to get dementia, they

:27:22.:27:25.

would have to pay the full costs of that over and above the ?100,000.

:27:26.:27:31.

That creates a lottery. If you munch burgers all your life and dropped

:27:32.:27:34.

dead of a heart attack, you don't lose your assets. Your children

:27:35.:27:40.

inherit them. We want a National Care Service like the principles of

:27:41.:27:43.

the NHS where we all pay in a bid through general taxation or a small

:27:44.:27:49.

levy on all of our Estates, posthumous leak after death, that is

:27:50.:27:53.

a fairer way of doing it. It is not a lottery. You are not penalising

:27:54.:27:59.

people unfortunate enough to get a long-term condition. We still don't

:28:00.:28:03.

know the Conservative policy. While Theresa May said they would

:28:04.:28:06.

introduce a cab, you can't have a system with no cup on payments, she

:28:07.:28:10.

then there would be no change. What is it. --? They want us to sign a

:28:11.:28:17.

blank cheque. What other manifesto commitments is worth the paper

:28:18.:28:22.

they're written on. It is unfair policy that is not supported by any

:28:23.:28:26.

experts. I think the Conservatives need to be clear about the

:28:27.:28:30.

proposals, so people worried about their futures and the children

:28:31.:28:34.

worried about their parents' futures are clear what they are voting for.

:28:35.:28:40.

With respect, Ben, I don't think you have interpreted the policy as it

:28:41.:28:45.

is. Where we are now, basically, because social care is means tested,

:28:46.:28:49.

everything you have commented in your home, can be used to meet the

:28:50.:28:56.

cost. What Teresa is suggesting is that there should be a cab. At the

:28:57.:29:05.

other end of the scale if you're renting, and you don't have much by

:29:06.:29:10.

way of assets, you will be left with the last 100,000 to spend. 23,000 is

:29:11.:29:15.

most derisory. It seems to me what she is offering is better, not

:29:16.:29:20.

worse. She is also saying he will not have to sell your home while you

:29:21.:29:28.

are having to -- care. At the moment that is not true. You could be

:29:29.:29:31.

thrown out of your house and it could be sold. That seems to me a

:29:32.:29:36.

good time. You absolutely would keep your home, May. Clearly there needs

:29:37.:29:46.

to be a contribution. But there needs to be a cab. The fact he will

:29:47.:29:50.

not have to sell your house, which you would have to do if the law

:29:51.:29:53.

remains the same, it seems to me is a good thing. This new pulling

:29:54.:29:58.

together of health and social care, more cost. It is going to go on

:29:59.:30:05.

something else. Do you really think that anything should be said -- set

:30:06.:30:12.

at this point? So far we have talked about school cuts and the

:30:13.:30:16.

Conservative plans for those. They are out for consultation. We have

:30:17.:30:20.

been asked to trust you about Brexit and give Theresa May a blank cheque

:30:21.:30:23.

without coming back to Parliament draw the people. Now you say, trust

:30:24.:30:30.

us. And you call this a wicked lottery. I want to be in a country

:30:31.:30:35.

where if you get ill, if you require social care in later years, if you

:30:36.:30:39.

are older and vulnerable, you are looked after by everybody else. That

:30:40.:30:44.

is how we judge our society. How we look after the most weak and

:30:45.:30:50.

vulnerable. Jacqi Hodgson, the Greens would like a confident,

:30:51.:30:54.

caring Britain? Absolutely. That would be based on a fully funded

:30:55.:30:59.

NHS. That includes social care. Where is the money? We wouldn't be

:31:00.:31:07.

funding trident. That brings in a lot of money. There is some disquiet

:31:08.:31:15.

about that. Let's think about how we can fund the NHS properly. We have a

:31:16.:31:19.

fear factor. Everything is based on fear. Fearful of losing a education.

:31:20.:31:28.

A headmaster said in two years he does know what is bound to happen to

:31:29.:31:31.

the school. People are worried about losing their hospitals. This social

:31:32.:31:37.

care has put the fear of everything into people who are carers, the

:31:38.:31:40.

people there a time to look after. People will not want to lean on

:31:41.:31:43.

their families because they will be trying to cut the costs. It is one

:31:44.:31:47.

mess on top of another. I think it is not reasonable. To take the

:31:48.:31:53.

attitude, people of God to pay, we are already paying through income

:31:54.:31:56.

tax and national insurance, through local rates. We are paying all sorts

:31:57.:32:01.

of different funding. To suggest if you wanted you have to pay more. It

:32:02.:32:08.

cuts through society. A devastating death tax, you have called it? The

:32:09.:32:13.

important thing we have to understand is we are facing a

:32:14.:32:16.

massive demographic crisis. Keeping the health service and social care

:32:17.:32:21.

separate is ludicrous. We have to integrate them because they are the

:32:22.:32:25.

same, quite clearly. Then we have to admit the size of the problem that

:32:26.:32:29.

we have got. That is to do with a rising population are an ageing

:32:30.:32:34.

population and a massive increase in people were going to suffer from

:32:35.:32:39.

dementia in the next 20 to 30 years. We have to confront this. The Ukip

:32:40.:32:43.

manifesto basically says we will get money from anywhere we can find it,

:32:44.:32:48.

and we will put it all there, basically. Because even that, and

:32:49.:32:56.

that is 34 million over the next five years, 34 billion, even that is

:32:57.:33:00.

barely going to help us to cope with the situation we're in. And when we

:33:01.:33:04.

talk about funding this problem, what we are talking about is you

:33:05.:33:10.

guys funding it. You young people funding it. This is a one-off deal,

:33:11.:33:16.

this thing with the houses. All the houses get sold but you are still

:33:17.:33:22.

paying. And how do you build up the wealth to do that again in your

:33:23.:33:26.

term? There is a massive crisis and we need to understand this is about

:33:27.:33:30.

supply and demand. It is about the promise of the health service and a

:33:31.:33:33.

demographic issue we have to confront. There is nothing more

:33:34.:33:38.

important. I work in a private company that

:33:39.:33:42.

offers services for the NHS. I can see that all the time the NHS is on

:33:43.:33:49.

its knees. Just by saying that, taxpayers will pay for everyone is

:33:50.:33:55.

alive. To be clear, let's use that word politicians like, there are

:33:56.:33:59.

just two parties who will form government. The Conservatives and

:34:00.:34:02.

Labour. Labour proved after 13 years in power that they can borrow

:34:03.:34:09.

better. Give a lot of free and don't ask for anything in return. And in

:34:10.:34:15.

the end, they had a letter saying, there is no more money. Then we had

:34:16.:34:20.

the Conservatives. They came, they stopped funds. So now I say between

:34:21.:34:29.

Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May there is no match. We need someone who

:34:30.:34:35.

says, guys I'm going to give you something but take something in

:34:36.:34:39.

return. As the government has said from year one, they always said, a

:34:40.:34:45.

country needs to leave -- live within its means. So I am

:34:46.:34:55.

conservative. I was Conservative before. I am now and will always be.

:34:56.:35:01.

I cannot see anybody else to leave the country better than Theresa May.

:35:02.:35:06.

Ben Bradshaw. Change this gentleman's mind? Good for you, sir.

:35:07.:35:13.

After 13 years of Labour government public satisfaction with the NHS was

:35:14.:35:17.

at record levels, waiting times were at record lows and staff morale at

:35:18.:35:22.

record highs. That has gone into reverse under the Conservatives. For

:35:23.:35:27.

11 of those years until the global financial crash, this country

:35:28.:35:30.

enjoyed the longest period of sustainable economic growth and

:35:31.:35:33.

rising living standards in our history.

:35:34.:35:41.

I would like to point out the size of the PFI debt we were saddled with

:35:42.:35:46.

at the end of that process. Which you are going to pay for. That is

:35:47.:35:51.

called a mortgage. Have you ever had one? We're running out of time. That

:35:52.:36:00.

is clearly an important topic. Listening to radio Devon and radio

:36:01.:36:03.

Cornwall it is a distressing one as well. Let's go to Tricia.

:36:04.:36:10.

Given that the South West has high property prices but relatively low

:36:11.:36:18.

wage levels, how are my two sons supposed to get a foot on the

:36:19.:36:22.

property ladder? They would not have a problem meeting the monthly

:36:23.:36:28.

repayments, but they have a problem getting banks or building societies

:36:29.:36:31.

to lend them the amounts of money they need around here to buy a house

:36:32.:36:37.

of their own. What is your solution, please? Jacqi Hodgson. You must

:36:38.:36:41.

speak to young people every day and, across this? Ideal and I am about

:36:42.:36:50.

planning. -- I do. We are driving our young people away from the

:36:51.:36:56.

south-west. I think it is wrong. The planning framework that came out in

:36:57.:37:02.

2010 is a developer's Charter. We need more houses but we don't need

:37:03.:37:05.

the type of houses that our high cost. The so-called affordable are

:37:06.:37:14.

about 80% of the housing prices. Young people will not get a foot on

:37:15.:37:17.

the ladder. The landlords are laughing all the way to the bank.

:37:18.:37:21.

They can buy these houses and rent them out at higher rents. We have to

:37:22.:37:26.

find ways to improve this so we actually improve the planning

:37:27.:37:29.

framework. The planning framework needs to be looked at. We have to

:37:30.:37:33.

make it more possible to have more creative planning. For example,

:37:34.:37:39.

developers can come in, greenfield sites, but in big amounts of money.

:37:40.:37:43.

After the costings have happened, they can add on 25% to the profit

:37:44.:37:50.

they walk away with at the end. Who pays the price? We don't get the

:37:51.:37:54.

social housing and we barely get the affordable housing. The joint local

:37:55.:37:58.

plan is recommending only 30% of that is affordable. We need far more

:37:59.:38:02.

than that. It was 60% in rural areas. I agree with every word of

:38:03.:38:08.

that. There are two the things we need to do. The first is allowed

:38:09.:38:11.

councils to build council houses again. -- allow. The Conservatives

:38:12.:38:21.

stop this happening by preventing local authorities from being able to

:38:22.:38:23.

borrow money to build council houses. It is an easy change. It is

:38:24.:38:29.

something Anne-Marie Green could commit the government to today if

:38:30.:38:32.

she wanted. I'm quite sure she won't. We need to build more council

:38:33.:38:37.

homes. The second thing we need to do is tackle the issue that the lady

:38:38.:38:41.

raised of affordability on a monthly basis. That is why the Liberal

:38:42.:38:45.

Democrats are talking about a rent to buy scheme, where we have a new

:38:46.:38:48.

type of housing, a new tenure, so you pay your rent each month and

:38:49.:38:52.

already 30 years of that period you increase your equity in a house.

:38:53.:38:57.

Similar to a mortgage, clearly, but not quite a mortgage. A new way of

:38:58.:39:01.

enabling younger people to buy homes. This is a real problem. In

:39:02.:39:06.

Cornwall, in my constituency, the gap is ten times the average house

:39:07.:39:13.

price to the average salary. There is a generation of young people who

:39:14.:39:16.

will never be able to get onto the housing ladder unless we take

:39:17.:39:21.

significant action. Anne-Marie Morris, this is a desperate

:39:22.:39:24.

situation for many people. What are you going to do? The White Paper

:39:25.:39:28.

came out before the election looking at this issue. Just like social

:39:29.:39:33.

care, actually. We have been brave enough to say there are problems,

:39:34.:39:37.

let's face up to them. Housing is a real issue. The issue for your

:39:38.:39:44.

youngsters is accepted and taken on board. Supply and demand, you need

:39:45.:39:51.

to increase the number of houses. We have a strategy to build more

:39:52.:39:55.

houses. We build more than Labour did, though I'm sure they would

:39:56.:39:59.

dispute that. That said, what we need to do is find ways of

:40:00.:40:02.

encouraging developers to build. Historically we have encouraged them

:40:03.:40:06.

when they are building to buy rather than rent. We are going to stop them

:40:07.:40:18.

taking land and developing it. There are a number of different schemes.

:40:19.:40:22.

We are building more social housing. And I mean social rather than

:40:23.:40:26.

affordable. The scheme behind that will enable youngsters to get their

:40:27.:40:29.

feet on the housing ladder. They will go in and rent first and over

:40:30.:40:32.

time they will be given the option to buy. It will be recycled.

:40:33.:40:36.

Whatever then gets bored, gets recycled. I don't honestly think the

:40:37.:40:43.

councils should become experts in house-building. Councils should

:40:44.:40:47.

organise and ensure the right things are done. Housing associations do a

:40:48.:40:58.

pretty bloody good job. Steve Crowther. We must hear from Steve

:40:59.:41:03.

Crowther. Do you agree with this? No. It's very clear that there are a

:41:04.:41:08.

number of fundamental things we have to do in this market. We have to

:41:09.:41:13.

take it out of the hands of large developers. Large developers have

:41:14.:41:15.

been the engine for the government's policy analyst billing for the last

:41:16.:41:18.

seven years, and it has completely failed. Basically they have

:41:19.:41:22.

sophisticated means of getting planning permission, banking large

:41:23.:41:30.

amount of planning land and deciding not to build. We have to make small

:41:31.:41:33.

developers build small developments. We also have to do something which

:41:34.:41:39.

doesn't cut out the value, take value out of the existing housing

:41:40.:41:42.

market. If we take value out of the existing housing market by flooding

:41:43.:41:46.

the market with new houses that compete with the existing housing

:41:47.:41:49.

market, who will pay for the social care? We can't just dropped

:41:50.:41:54.

everybody's Wealth by saying we are bound to make everybody's has

:41:55.:41:58.

cheaper. We need a new tranche of housing. We need to create a new

:41:59.:42:04.

tranche of cheaper but now very much better factory built housing that

:42:05.:42:12.

can be built through a national housing development Corporation and

:42:13.:42:14.

compulsorily purchased land on small plots where they are needed, and

:42:15.:42:20.

built using skills needed locally, providing jobs and houses locally.

:42:21.:42:26.

If you can do that on average, somebody in a ?26,000 salary would

:42:27.:42:29.

be able to buy their own two-bedroom home. That would create the answer

:42:30.:42:33.

to the problem because it is putting the bottom rung of the ladder back

:42:34.:42:35.

in, without actually destroying the ladder. Perfect solution, Ben

:42:36.:42:43.

Bradshaw? I agree with much of that. Anne-Marie Green talks about a white

:42:44.:42:48.

paper. That is another consultation. You have had seven years. This is

:42:49.:42:55.

the biggest issue facing my constituents in the south-west.

:42:56.:42:59.

Housing affordability. We have to free up local authorities to build

:43:00.:43:04.

more houses. We have to do more to control the private rental sector. A

:43:05.:43:08.

lot of people are forced into the private rental sector. Extortionate

:43:09.:43:13.

rents. Even in America they have rent controls. We have to tackle

:43:14.:43:17.

that. It is not fair and future generations. And indeed the parents

:43:18.:43:23.

having to put up with it. 60,000 people in the south-west are for a

:43:24.:43:32.

council house or affordable home. We don't have any more time at all. We

:43:33.:43:35.

could talk about many more things. Thank you to are panellists and our

:43:36.:43:41.

audience. Hopefully we have answered some of your questions. Like you for

:43:42.:43:43.

joining us. Thanks everybody. APPLAUSE.

:43:44.:44:03.

Hear the arguments from the politicians themselves.

:44:04.:44:07.

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