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Welcome to Election 2017, from the Birmingham Ormiston Academy. | :00:00. | :00:24. | |
For Ukip, the West Midlands MEP and Dudley councillor Bill Etheridge. | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
For the Conservatives, the Communities and Local | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
Government Secretary, Sajid Javid. | :00:35. | :00:35. | |
For the Liberal Democrats, Martin Horwood. | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
And for the Green Party, Ellie Chowns. | :00:39. | :00:39. | |
And if you want to join the debate at home on social media, | :00:40. | :00:55. | |
And let's begin right away with our first question from John Mills. | :00:56. | :01:04. | |
In the wake of the Manchester terrorist attack, we saw armed | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
Is this an indictment of the Conservatives' | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
Sajid Javid, Mr Mills obviously has the 20,000 police officers who have | :01:10. | :01:22. | |
lost their positions, you know, cut from the police force | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
Let me say that that terrible atrocity was just one week ago | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
and I am sure I speak for all of us when I say that our thoughts | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
are with those victims and their families and their friends. | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
I was honoured as Communities Secretary to attend the vigil | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
on Tuesday in Manchester and it was really very moving | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
to see so many people come together so quickly. | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
We rely every day on our police to protect us and we must make sure | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
That is one reason why in 2015 we pledged to protect | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
the police budget, the plan for the Labour Party | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
Of course, we must have the correct manpower in the police but we must | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
make sure that they are properly resourced in other ways | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
using technology and everything else that they need. | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
We must make sure that our security services are properly resourced | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
and that is why two budgets ago we allocated over ?2 billion in more | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
funding so that they could go out and hire more people that can help | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
fight crime, the kind of people that have already protected us from some | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
18 terrorist plots that have been foiled, something that we were | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
Are you saying then that the cuts to police numbers now | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
What I am telling you is that we want to make | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
sure that the police are properly resourced. | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
What we have seen is that despite the changes in the police | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
budget in recent years, that we have protected since 2015, | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
we have seen a fall in recorded crime of over one third which shows | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
us just how good a job the police can do with | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
Khalid Mahmood, Sajid Javid says that Labour would cut police | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
budgets, you are not in a very strong position to argue. | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
If you look at the manifesto it said that we increased | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
What happened was that when Theresa May was | :03:00. | :03:09. | |
What happened was that when Theresa May was the Home Secretary, | :03:10. | :03:11. | |
she made the cuts in the police force, the cuts to the border agency | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
staff, the cuts to the military and I think all of which the Tory | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
government has done over the last seven years | :03:19. | :03:20. | |
Sajid Javid talks about technology and I agree with that, | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
But what is really important is when you cut away 10,000 police | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
officers is the intelligence that you get on the ground. | :03:29. | :03:30. | |
In my area we have a community support police officer who goes | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
around, sits in people's houses, gets information locally, | :03:34. | :03:35. | |
He was able to do that, he can no longer do that | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
because there are only three of them left in an area that had 20 | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
beforehand, needed in order to work the whole area. | :03:44. | :03:45. | |
Unless you have the boots on the ground, speaking to local | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
people and getting the proper information, it will not do. | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
To push this back to technology is not good enough, you need | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
the people on the ground to provide a proper and cohesive service. | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
Martin Horwood, what is the position of the Lib Dems on this? | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
It is a little bit early to start making accusations against one party | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
or another and it is a shame that this has become a political | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
football quite so soon after such a tragic incident | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
and it is important to remember that actually, we have gone ten years, | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
more than ten years without a really major terrorist incident like this | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
in our country and we have actually probably foiled dozens of similar | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
plots, and we really owe all our intelligence services, | :04:26. | :04:27. | |
including GCHQ in my patch, and our police forces, genuine | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
thanks for all of the innocent lives they have saved and that is really | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
important to remember, so they are doing a very good job. | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
Amongst the Lib Dem proposals is lifting the 1% pay cap | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
on public sector pensions, that would make places like GCHQ | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
more competitive in a very competitive marketplace | :04:51. | :04:52. | |
We have made a ?300 million commitment to increase | :04:53. | :05:02. | |
But I am not telling you that would necessarily prevent an attack | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
and I think we cannot take such a complex issue and say that there's | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
one thing that has caused it, there are things like the amount | :05:11. | :05:12. | |
of money we spend worldwide on peacekeeping and peace building, | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
Year after year after year of Conservative-led governments | :05:16. | :05:25. | |
and when it comes to election time, they bring out highly polished, | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
articulate, excellent communicators who tell us how they will increase | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
budgets for policing, how they are a party of law and order, | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
the party of security and defence, and yet, during their watch, | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
the numbers fall, the spending falls and only at election time do we get | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
these superbly erudite statements about how committed | :05:46. | :05:47. | |
Quite frankly, the proof is in the pudding and year | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
after year we are seeing cut after cut after cut to defence, | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
to security, to policing and it is not good enough to keep | :05:59. | :06:00. | |
You have a superb communicator for the Conservative Party | :06:01. | :06:09. | |
who will tell you all of the right words but they are not necessarily | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
in the right order and the problem we will have is that this is just | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
lip service, the Tories have shown they do not care about security, | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
defence and policing because they have cut | :06:22. | :06:23. | |
I think we have some seriously good communicators | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
from all the parties this evening, including Ellie Chowns | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
To answer your question directly, I do not think that the deployment | :06:30. | :06:37. | |
of troops on the street is in itself an indictment, I think | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
it is an understandable response, you know, people want reassurance | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
after such a horrific and callous attack. | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
But I think that what we have seen are very strong cuts | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
to the police service, 15% cuts since 2010. | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
And so, we really do need to ask ourselves whether the government | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
policy is making us safer or less safe. | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
It is true that it is not just boots on the street, | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
it is all about understanding what is going on in communities, | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
community-led deradicalisation programmes can help to make us | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
But I think that it is a bit rich really for the Conservatives | :07:14. | :07:21. | |
to argue that they are investing more in the police when | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
There have been 15% cuts and that potentially makes us all less safe. | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
Let us go back to John Mills who asked the question, | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
Are there particular issues where you come | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
I live in a village south of Coventry. | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
We do not have particular policing issues in that area and the question | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
I asked was not directed at the fact that if we had more police | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
that the attack would have been prevented as the Lib Dem candidate | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
However many police you have got, it will always be difficult | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
to defend against this kind of attack and we all | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
However, we do get a sense that with the numbers | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
of police that have been cut, the cuts have gone a little bit too | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
far, they have been made to deeply and resources have been depleted | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
I think it is time that situation was readdressed. | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
Anyone else in the audience with a view? | :08:22. | :08:23. | |
I think we should have stayed in Europe and shared our | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
One of the things that concerns me is that this chap | :08:29. | :08:42. | |
was being monitored by the security services, but was able to get out | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
of the country and come back in on a different passport. | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
If you have things like fingerprint recognition at the airports, | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
that would be pretty much nigh-on impossible to get around. | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
There should have been this sort of investment. | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
This person was clearly being monitored by the security | :08:59. | :09:00. | |
services and managed to come back under a different passport. | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
Thank you, this is the point where we will move on. | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
Onto our next question now which comes from Jemma Yoloye. | :09:08. | :09:16. | |
Theresa May voted to remain in the EU and is now | :09:17. | :09:18. | |
She stated there would be no snap election and now we are in one, | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
she has made a huge U-turn on what was dubbed | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
How can Theresa May cope with negotiating with members | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
of the EU, when it is quite clear she often breaks under pressure? | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
I'm going to come to you first on this, Khalid Mahmood, | :09:34. | :09:35. | |
because your leader has a few questions about his consistency | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
as well, so it is not confined to any one particular leader. | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
Firstly, Theresa May, she sounds hard and wants to stand out, | :09:43. | :09:44. | |
good sound bites on TV but there is no substance. | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
That is what the real issue is, the amount of U-turns she has done, | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
The dementia tax, the U-turn within the manifesto | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
That is what the problem is, that is what people must recognise | :09:56. | :10:07. | |
is that she talks big but cannot deliver under pressure, has not been | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
Calling this election because she said it would give | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
She had three quarters of the MP supporting her, | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
two thirds of the Lords supporting her. | :10:19. | :10:20. | |
So why is she now wanting to do this? | :10:21. | :10:22. | |
She only did it because she thought she could capitalise and get more | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
votes for the party and hopefully people are not fooled by that | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
Bearing in mind that your leader on the television said last night | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
that he hoped that Theresa May does well in the Brexit negotiations. | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
The point is that whoever the Prime Minister is at | :10:37. | :10:49. | |
the end of this process, it is IN national interest | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
that they do well but we started off the Prime Minister | :10:53. | :10:54. | |
who were supposedly strong and stable, as it goes | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
on she is increasingly weak and wobbly. | :10:58. | :10:58. | |
The point we here is that Theresa May is talking a good game, | :10:59. | :11:06. | |
it is about the other point I made, talk, presentation, spin. | :11:07. | :11:08. | |
As this campaign goes on, do you really see Theresa May | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
pushing through a clean, proper Brexit? | :11:16. | :11:17. | |
I do not believe what she is saying, she is saying because it plays | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
At the end of the day, we have to be able to trust | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
There are so many occasions that she has backtracked | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
Already just in a few weeks of the campaign. | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
When she goes to Brussels, I know some of the people | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
she will negotiate with, they are not soft, they are watching | :11:39. | :11:40. | |
The point that Bill makes is that bearing in mind that climb-down over | :11:41. | :11:47. | |
as some commentators have said, the spell of leadership | :11:48. | :11:55. | |
in which the Tories have rested so much in this campaign has | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
We had a referendum, there was a clear decision | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
by the British people, the people in this room | :12:04. | :12:05. | |
who would have looked at both sides of the debate. | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
It was to ask the British people, that's the point of the referendum. | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
It is our job as politicians to get on with it and to deliver | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
what the British people have voted for. | :12:15. | :12:16. | |
The Conservatives have agreed to that, led by | :12:17. | :12:18. | |
We want to make a success of Brexit, the Labour Party has | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
failed to accept that, we do not even know their policies. | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
The Lib Dems, despite their name, they do not believe in the outcome. | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
They want to rerun the whole thing again. | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
Members of the House of Lords want to re-run | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
We need to get on with it and that is why we are having this | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
election, it is an opportunity for the British people | :12:43. | :12:44. | |
to back Theresa May, the one person that can take us | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
through this and get a successful outcome, the only one. | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
Given that Theresa May just went so big on strengthening her hand, | :12:52. | :13:07. | |
in a very sort of personal and direct way, to start | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
presidential and solid, now she is in a sense | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
reaping her difficult reward from that? | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
Every vote will strengthen our hand. The more that Theresa May can | :13:20. | :13:27. | |
negotiate. Remember, it is not just the European Union negotiation, we | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
are dealing with 27 other leaders. This will be one of the most complex | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
negotiations we have ever faced as a country, Theresa May has the | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
experience, the determination and the strength to see it through and | :13:38. | :13:44. | |
make sure there is a good outcome for Britain. I think it does smack a | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
bit of opportunism to be honest. The various changes that we have seen on | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
the part of Theresa May. And not strong and stable government at all. | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
She is following them up someone else, potentially over the cliff | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
edge of a hard Brexit. By difficult, potentially. With the Brexit, people | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
voted for lots of different ways and there is no point rehashing that | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
argument. There is some opportunities that we face with | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
Brexit. I come from Herefordshire, a farming area, we have the | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
opportunity to rethink how we use our agricultural subsidies. They | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
could have another referendum, that will just add to the confusion door. | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
I do not think so, the referendum set the direction but it did not set | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
exactly what type of Brexit we would have. I think there is a risk that | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
Theresa May would take this into a hard Brexit, tearing up all sorts of | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
agreements that we have got, many environmental laws, many of our | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
environmental protections come from Europe, one third of them are in | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
danger of moving back to UK law. We think it is right in the Green Party | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
that there should be a vote, a ratification referendum on the final | :14:56. | :14:56. | |
deal once on the table. In the meantime, I'd like to say, | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
I don't think that we should get so distracted by Brexit | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
that we forget about everything else You know, there are lots of things | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
that we can and should be doing. Building a strong, | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
sustainable local economy. We should be getting | :15:12. | :15:13. | |
on with that as well as having Martin, yours, the Liberal Democrats | :15:14. | :15:15. | |
are the other party that There's a tension with that | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
and the obvious demands going into negotiations which are, | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
after all, about Brexit. Well, just a start by saying to you, | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
Sajid, we are not questioning You want a second referendum | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
on the absolute terms? We have set out on a voyage, | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
OK, that's fine. But if halfway across | :15:39. | :15:40. | |
the North Atlantic you see a bunch of icebergs ahead, | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
and you think you're going to crash into them, | :15:44. | :15:45. | |
we just want you to have the right to turn round and go | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
back to a safe haven. Especially if you have a captain | :15:49. | :15:50. | |
who has a habit of taking U-turns every five minutes | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
on every policy going. It's not something that | :15:54. | :15:55. | |
inspires confidence, is it? My main complaint about the way | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
the Conservatives are approaching the Brexit negotiations is this | :16:00. | :16:01. | |
incredibly confrontational They need to go on a collective | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
negotiating skills course. I mean, Michael Howard, | :16:05. | :16:14. | |
saying he'd be prepared to go to war Well, that's one veto | :16:15. | :16:16. | |
lined up for the final If you go into a negotiation | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
by trying to insult and be aggressive to the people | :16:23. | :16:31. | |
you are negotiating with you will not succeed | :16:32. | :16:33. | |
and only one country, only one country out of 27 has | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
to veto even a transitional deal And that could be a complete | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
catastrophe for this country. And, if the negotiations | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
go well, fine. But if there is a bad deal, | :16:47. | :16:48. | |
or if there is no deal at all We ought to have the | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
right to think again. Let's go back now to Jemma, | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
who asked this question. I saw you nodding your | :16:57. | :16:58. | |
head during that. What do you make of | :16:59. | :17:00. | |
what we've been hearing? Conservatives haven't answered | :17:01. | :17:02. | |
the question directly because I'm asking how can we put trust | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
in Theresa May if she is making When she activated Article 50 | :17:06. | :17:08. | |
there was no mention of what is going to happen | :17:09. | :17:16. | |
to Gibraltar which, again, shows We can't trust someone so weak | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
to negotiate anything Anybody want to talk | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
about Jeremy Corbyn's leadership I think Jeremy Corbyn is a very | :17:24. | :17:25. | |
strong and principled man and I look at Theresa May, | :17:26. | :17:35. | |
I watched her last night on television, and I watched | :17:36. | :17:37. | |
Jeremy Corbyn on television, having a debate on Channel 4 | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
and all I saw from Theresa May was somebody that wanted to wriggle | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
out of talking about things. And she won't even debate | :17:45. | :17:46. | |
with Jeremy Corbyn. If you won't have a debate | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
with the leader of the Labour Party, how on earth are we supposed | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
to expect her to negotiate Brexit? Anyone defend Theresa | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
May in all this? You're saying Theresa May squirmed | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
out of questions and whatever else, can we ask Jeremy Corbyn squirming | :18:06. | :18:13. | |
on the issue of national security and his past | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
negotiations with the IRA, Hezbollah, and Hamas, | :18:18. | :18:19. | |
are they not issues that need Issues of sovereignty | :18:20. | :18:21. | |
and protecting our nation. Theresa May is strongest | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
and protecting our nation. She will continue to protect | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
our nation when crime is turning to cyber and not boots | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
on the ground. The same with the | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
Brexit negotiation. I supported it and will | :18:39. | :18:39. | |
continue to support One final word before we move | :18:40. | :18:41. | |
on from the man in the blue shirt. I think the biggest dichotomy we've | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
got in politics across the board at the moment is that whilst we have | :18:47. | :18:48. | |
all sorts of people standing to be leaders, they will all | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
have their own personal beliefs and the big challenge they've got | :18:53. | :18:54. | |
is the fact that they are leading parties which democratically come up | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
with what they believe. That's the biggest challenge | :18:58. | :18:59. | |
they have, really. Briefly, if you would, | :19:00. | :19:01. | |
because we must move on. Jeremy Corbyn cannot | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
even lead his own party. 90% of his own MPs voted | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
against him, including Khalid. What Jeremy Corbyn has done | :19:09. | :19:10. | |
through this manifesto is listening He hasn't decided to lock himself | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
in a room with a special adviser, not even listening | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
to the Shadow Cabinet, or the Cabinet, as Theresa May has | :19:23. | :19:24. | |
done, she's actually delivered That's what they're | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
running scared of. He's the one who's embraced people, | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
who wants to get to the general We really do have to move | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
on to our next question Why can't the two major parties be | :19:36. | :19:43. | |
honest and admit we need to raise income tax by 1p in the pound | :19:44. | :19:51. | |
to fund our NHS and social Martin, I saw you | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
applauding the question. This has obviously been | :19:55. | :20:09. | |
Liberal Democrat policy for some time and its restated in this | :20:10. | :20:11. | |
election campaign, as well. We've got a crazy situation | :20:12. | :20:13. | |
where we have the Conservative Party pretending you can have NHS | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
and social care on the cheap. With Labour pretending that you can | :20:18. | :20:19. | |
promise everything under the moon but only the super-rich | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
will have to pay for it. The fairest, most straightforward | :20:26. | :20:27. | |
way to get the vast amount of cash that the NHS and social care | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
really needs in this country is two, first of all, | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
put that 1p on income tax. 2 billion for social care, | :20:34. | :20:35. | |
the rest into the NHS, including specific sums for mental | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
health, which is a really important issue and particularly | :20:40. | :20:41. | |
for children's mental health, I would say and young | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
people's mental health. And that is the kind | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
of bold step that we need. That will solve the problem | :20:49. | :20:50. | |
for a while but we also need a consensus amongst | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
all of the parties What are the issues on NHS | :20:54. | :20:55. | |
in Cheltenham and Gloucester, Well, the issue we've got, | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
like most NHS trusts, we had one that, two years ago, | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
was not flush with money Now it's in deficit, like most other | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
NHS trusts around the country. So, for instance, my top priority | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
is to get our A open full-time, 24-hours a day, it's downgraded | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
at night, at the moment, how can I do that if the local NHS | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
is looking at cuts and savings, And that's just the wrong approach | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
for a local NHS to have to take. We need to solve that immediate | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
financial crisis and then look at the long-term sustainable future | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
of the NHS, which includes, actually, working on some | :21:39. | :21:40. | |
of the things that stop people going to hospital, | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
like investing in public health and making ourselves | :21:44. | :21:45. | |
a healthier society altogether. Bill, I saw you pulling a bit | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
of a face there during one Is that on the basis | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
of your experience in Well, I was a hospital | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
governor for three years. And the reason why I resigned | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
from that was because the hospital car parking fees were being put up | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
without any democratic vote of the governors and, | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
of course, where did they go? Like so much else, | :22:10. | :22:11. | |
into the PFI projects. The whole thing with the NHS is that | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
successive governments have allowed PFI to get involved | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
and they are creaming off profits. The only thing that is worse | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
than a public monopoly Now, when you come to this issue | :22:23. | :22:24. | |
about raising income tax. It is always the first thing | :22:25. | :22:33. | |
that the traditional parties say. "Let's take more tax, | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
let's take more money off Well, our party has put forward | :22:38. | :22:39. | |
a plan that puts ?11 billion a year more into the NHS and social care | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
without raising income tax It's simply a case, | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
if you look where you put your money and you look | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
where you spend your time. At the end of the day, | :22:54. | :22:55. | |
we don't need to keep This country has a massive burden | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
of taxation on people. You look at your pay packet | :22:59. | :23:12. | |
at the end of the month. Government has to make tough | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
decisions, prioritise, we're going to commit ?11 billion | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
a year more to that. You're taking the money off really, | :23:19. | :23:20. | |
really poor people and giving it to people who aren't quite so poor | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
but are local to us. India with more | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
millionaires than ours. It's going to hit really, really | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
poor people who have got a penny. I think Bill Etheridge had | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
you in mind when he was talking about taxation because, | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
obviously, Labour would tax Unlike the liberals who been running | :23:40. | :23:40. | |
this idea of a penny in a pound for the last almost 15 years, | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
it hasn't got them anywhere. I think if they want to be serious | :23:46. | :23:47. | |
about providing a proper national health service, | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
they've got to realistically look at how they can get the money | :23:51. | :23:52. | |
and how they do it properly. What the Labour Party says, we'll | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
tax the 5% of the richest people. We'll take money from corporation | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
tax and we'll try and make Is that going to help | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
hospital services in That's hospital services | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
across the country. Of course, Birmingham will get | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
a proportion of that. What the Tories have done, | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
and they keep saying they'll raise it, in real terms, | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
whatever raise they are talking about now would be less | :24:17. | :24:18. | |
than what they've already had. We've got huge amount | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
of shortage of nurses, we've got a huge amount of shortage | :24:22. | :24:23. | |
of staff and I know that because I've had people go | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
into hospitals, What Bill was saying | :24:27. | :24:27. | |
is just absolute nonsense. If you do a proper service, | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
you're going to be playing a role in the International community | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
as we are, what we're going to do is look at the whole the world | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
but we've got to importantly look Efficiency is part of the word | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
I think Bill wanted to use as well The National Health Service | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
is the most efficient worldwide service that there | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
is and we want to invest in it I'll bring Sajid Javid | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
in on this in a moment. There are big issues | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
in hospital services but let's hear before | :24:57. | :25:06. | |
that from Ellie Chowns. To answer your question, | :25:07. | :25:15. | |
we've got to invest more in public services and that money has | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
to come from tax. I think we've really got to get | :25:19. | :25:20. | |
away from this idea that Tax is the way that we collectively | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
pay for things that we can't Actually, the tax burden in this | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
country is lower than in most other Now, there have been well over | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
?100 billion of tax cuts since 2010 and the vast majority of that has | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
gone to the top half of households. So, the greens argue that we should | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
reverse those tax cuts and we should Are there particular | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
problems in Herefordshire? We've also got a PFI hospital, | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
so we're paying through the nose for that sort of contract | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
which was started under the Tories. Would you reverse the tax breaks | :25:52. | :25:53. | |
that the Liberal Democrats gave We wouldn't reverse tax | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
breaks to the lowest paid. We believe in progressive taxation | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
where those who have more contribute more towards the things that bring | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
us all together. Sajid Javid, we've heard | :26:03. | :26:04. | |
from a variety of experiences You've got a particular sharp edged | :26:05. | :26:06. | |
one there in Redditch with services down graded, | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
particular budgetary pressure there. Well, first, can I say | :26:13. | :26:13. | |
with all respect to Ellie, a couple points she just made | :26:14. | :26:23. | |
there are completely wrong. The tax cuts in the last seven years | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
have gone to 31 million people. So, the lowest paid people | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
in our country, 3 million people These are Resolution | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
Foundation figures that The top 1% today pay | :26:33. | :26:34. | |
27% of all income tax, which is the highest proportion | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
they have ever paid in history. What will it take to help | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
the Alex Hospital in Redditch? What it will take, whether it's | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
the Alex, or anywhere else around the country, | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
the only way we can sustainably fund our precious public services, | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
including our NHS is by having Last year, we were the | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
fastest-growing economy in the G7. We have more people employed | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
today than ever before. Once they are in these jobs, | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
they pay taxes which then pay That's the virtuous circle that pays | :27:03. | :27:05. | |
for these public services. And if we get Brexit wrong, | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
all of that is at risk. No, let's just get a quick word | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
from Sandra who asked the question. What do you make | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
of what you've heard? I do agree with quite a lot | :27:18. | :27:19. | |
of what has been said. But I do think we also need | :27:20. | :27:26. | |
to have a long-term plan, Because that's what's putting | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
the pressure on our NHS, as we saw I know we could go on but I'm afraid | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
in order to get as many questions and answers as we can, | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
we do need to move on. If you're just joining us, welcome | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
to our Midlands Today special. You can join this debate from home, | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
using the hashtag on the screen now. Our next question now | :27:47. | :27:55. | |
which comes from Jack Downes. In the past seven years, | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
the government have not met their "tens of thousands" | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
target on immigration. The target is not working, | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
why are they sticking to it? I'm going to come to you first, | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
Bill Etheridge because this is obviously Ukip's big | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
issue, immigration. At least the Conservatives | :28:15. | :28:15. | |
are putting a number on it. They actually get record numbers | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
of people entering the country. If you're going to make a promise | :28:19. | :28:29. | |
at least do something you at least have some intention | :28:30. | :28:31. | |
of following through. Mrs May was the Home Secretary | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
at the time when immigration hit Quite simply, this is another | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
example of the lady not How would the Black Country | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
economy fare with your That would slow the economy | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
down, wouldn't it? That's over a phased | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
in period of five years. The Australian style points | :28:55. | :28:56. | |
system that we put forward What would it do | :28:57. | :28:58. | |
to the economy then? Well, we believe that | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
immigration is required. You need to get people coming | :29:02. | :29:03. | |
in to help the economy. It's simply a case of making sure | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
that the people who come bring the required benefits, | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
skills, and something Look, without people coming | :29:12. | :29:13. | |
in will be in a sorry state. But, on the other hand, | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
if you've got people filling low skilled jobs that young people | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
are beginning to start off with, just like I did when I was a young | :29:22. | :29:23. | |
man, stacking crates in a factory, if those jobs are taken, | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
where do our young people start? There is a record number of youth | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
unemployment in this country. Because they're's | :29:31. | :29:32. | |
nowhere to start from. And, frankly, the number of people | :29:33. | :29:41. | |
coming in from the EU, nothing whatsoever against those | :29:42. | :29:43. | |
people, I don't blame them one little bit, | :29:44. | :29:45. | |
I'd be coming, as well, but the point is the government has | :29:46. | :29:47. | |
a responsibility to all others to properly manage immigration | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
and Mrs May has totally let us down. Khalid Mahmood doesn't | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
the Labour Party also have a responsibility, | :29:54. | :29:55. | |
bearing in mind it was when you were in office, | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
it was an Labour's watch that the general perception | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
is that the government, frankly, That's why people feel so strongly | :30:01. | :30:02. | |
about it in the Black Country and Stoke and other parts | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
of the West Midlands. No, I think, first of all, | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
I think the Tory promise, again, rehashed for the same reason | :30:11. | :30:12. | |
into the tens of thousands rather than hundreds of thousands, | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
not being able to achieve If you take it down to zero | :30:16. | :30:17. | |
immigration, which is what Bill is also talking about it is the cost | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
on the economy that incurs and that's over | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
?6 billion worth of cost. We are already pushing our | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
pensioners date later and later. The pensioners retireable | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
dates and that's going Bill talks about, in terms of young | :30:34. | :30:35. | |
people, that we haven't got our vocational education | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
system done properly. If we'd properly resourced it, | :30:41. | :30:42. | |
if we'd properly worked it, we would have young people | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
from within the industry, like I did, when I left | :30:46. | :30:47. | |
school, I got on a city I went through that system | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
and I was able to get a job. Some of the things that we call | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
apprenticeships these days So, I think what we need | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
to do is allow proper training for our people, | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
allow the right people to come in, through the points-based system, | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
and I agree with that, through a points-based system, | :31:06. | :31:07. | |
so as people can contribute to the Exchequer in the taxes | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
and the jobs they do, value add to our country and to be | :31:11. | :31:12. | |
able to deliver that. Ellie Chowns, there is a balance, | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
surely, that has to be Especially, bearing in mind rural | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
areas like Hereford where, obviously, migrant workers | :31:20. | :31:26. | |
and so on are very much So, how do you find the balance | :31:27. | :31:28. | |
between dealing with the concerns that Bill has been talking | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
about and making sure Migrant labour is really | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
important to the economy of Herefordshire and, | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
indeed, to our economy as a whole. Migrants contribute much more | :31:40. | :31:41. | |
than they take out in terms of what they put in to the tax take | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
and what they take out in terms So, I think, people are barking up | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
the wrong tree if they're saying The population of this country has | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
increased by about 0.8% over The problem is how | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
that is discharged. So the problem is inequality, | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
not immigration. Well, actually, I agree | :32:07. | :32:13. | |
with quite a lot of that. I think the statistics | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
show very clearly... A lot of agreement between you two | :32:20. | :32:21. | |
and yet the Progressive Alliance I'd love the Green party to stand | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
down for me in Cheltenham. We did stand down for Caroline Lucas | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
in Brighton, actually. All the statistics show that | :32:29. | :32:35. | |
immigration is a benefit to this country and I think there are scarce | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
stories from parties like Ukip report the entire population | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
of Romania was about to move to Britain a few years | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
back, if you remember. Things that make the numbers look | :32:47. | :32:48. | |
worse, like the inclusion of foreign students, | :32:49. | :32:50. | |
who aren't really immigrants and actually we welcome | :32:51. | :32:52. | |
foreign students... Actually, they help | :32:53. | :32:54. | |
pay for the University of Gloucestershire and they helped | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
to spread British influence and our connections with academia | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
and business and people and communities all | :33:03. | :33:04. | |
around the world. So, it's a very good thing to have | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
foreign students in this country. But we also need to do some | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
of the things that do tackle inequality and look at some | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
of the ways in which some employers exploit both | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
immigrant and local Labour. So, we need to look again | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
at the National minimum wage, we need to invest in skills | :33:21. | :33:22. | |
and education in this country and we need to stop things | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
like the exploitation Sajid Javid, Theresa May | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
having repeatedly failed as Home Secretary to get it down | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
to the tens of thousands. Can people be blamed, | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
really, if they are having to suspend their disbelief a little | :33:37. | :33:43. | |
bit too long on this one? Well, look, first thing I'd say, | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
I'm the proud son of immigrants and I'm the first to recognise that | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
immigrants from all over the world have made a huge | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
contribution to our country. Every walk of life, | :33:53. | :33:54. | |
whether it is business, our culture, our politics and that's only | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
to be welcomed. That can also go alongside saying | :33:58. | :33:59. | |
that we need to have a sustainable We can't have that open-door | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
policy that Labour had, So that we can control the numbers | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
overall and control the pressures, for example, it might put | :34:07. | :34:17. | |
on our public services. And that's why I think it's right | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
to commit to 100,000 or lower. It will be made much easier once | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
we leave the European Union. The man near the back | :34:25. | :34:32. | |
in the blue T-shirt. This deal is about access | :34:33. | :34:34. | |
to the single market. You can't talk about | :34:35. | :34:44. | |
reducing immigration Because the Tory right side | :34:45. | :34:52. | |
were going to have a referendum that was totally unnecessary and has | :34:53. | :35:04. | |
divided the country. It's only the rebels have got bigger | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
spheroidal than anybody else who are actually saying | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
what people actually think. At least they're honest | :35:12. | :35:13. | |
and sincere about it. Your argument is total | :35:14. | :35:15. | |
and complete and utter nonsense. When you join a club, | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
you don't go in there and say were going to change the rules | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
on something because Anybody in the audience who feels | :35:26. | :35:27. | |
that immigration is running to hide? I think the problem is, | :35:28. | :35:37. | |
if you look at the last 20 years, we've imported 140,000 | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
nurses from abroad. In that same time, the government | :35:42. | :35:42. | |
has refused to educate 140,000 young people with the skills to do nursing | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
in this country because it is cheaper to import a Filipino nurse | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
for 6000 US dollars than pay ?72,000 We're not funding young people | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
in this country and we're Jaguar-Land Rover importing | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
engineers from abroad. Because we don't want to train | :35:56. | :36:03. | |
them at university. We have the greatest university | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
production of graduates ever at the lowest cost | :36:10. | :36:11. | |
to the British taxpayer ever. Yet, were not producing the people | :36:12. | :36:13. | |
that need to do the ?35,000 a year starting salary jobs that | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
are available out there. We're leaving our schoolkids to come | :36:17. | :36:18. | |
through the education system and then go and get a job serving | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
beer in a bar, going cleaning And the amount of immigration | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
in the NHS is indicative of our failure to invest | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
in young people. None of the parties want | :36:31. | :36:32. | |
to do anything about it. The Labour Party is bringing | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
in bursaries for nurses so, that is for our own home-grown | :36:37. | :36:44. | |
nurses. The Labour Party is | :36:45. | :36:46. | |
committed to doing that. But you will bankrupt | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
the country in the process. You want to do radical | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
things, they want to put Labour has got a magic money tree, | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
that is how they can afford it. We will move on now | :37:01. | :37:10. | |
to our next question Will a coalition of chaos be | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
preferable to the sort of strong and stable leadership | :37:15. | :37:25. | |
that was demonstrated Ellie Chowns, I will come | :37:26. | :37:26. | |
to you first because it seems to me that the Green Party | :37:27. | :37:35. | |
has their own recipe for a coalition of chaos - | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
you have two leaders! And they are both extremely | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
effective, and probably much more effective than the single leaders | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
of the other parties. The Greens have argued | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
for a long time that we need a new approach to politics, | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
less of a kind of confrontational playground politics and a more | :37:52. | :38:02. | |
grown-up politics, where we talk to each other and seek consensus | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
and compromise and try to work out the best way for the country | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
together, rather than try to grab onto power as has happened | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
in the last election. We got a Conservative government | :38:12. | :38:13. | |
elected on the votes of just 24% of the adults in the country | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
and they led us to the referendum, this other election two years later, | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
not strong and stable. So we argue for electoral reform, | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
we need a system where the voice of all is heard in this country, | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
so that we can play a part in shaping | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
the politics that we want. We argue for an extension | :38:31. | :38:32. | |
of the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds, they | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
should get the vote too. When I think of this | :38:38. | :38:39. | |
question, I think we need I will surprise you, I think, | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
by saying that actually I watched him last night, | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
I thought he was likeable, sincere, I thought he came | :38:47. | :38:48. | |
across as a man of great principle Because I also thought | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
that he was a man who frankly is so hooked up on his doctrine | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
of Marxism that I believe that he will, if he gets the chance | :38:56. | :39:03. | |
to become Prime Minister, I think his Shadow Chancellor | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
is another man who, frankly, you know, if they are walking down | :39:09. | :39:16. | |
the street with their Trotsky hats on and waving the red flag, | :39:17. | :39:26. | |
would not out of place. We have Labour Party MPs are trying | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
to make it look like it is all OK and reasonable but we all more that | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
for the past few months they have been trying to get rid of these guys | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
but they cannot because of Momentum. And what we have to demand, | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
genuinely I would like to enjoy his company and set and have a chat | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
with them, but I would not like to see him in charge | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
of anything, let alone this country, A warm endorsement of your leader | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
from Ukip, Khalid Mahmood! How is, in your experience, | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
Jeremy Corbyn going down The problem is that what Bill | :39:58. | :39:59. | |
is saying is, you know, you like the guy, look | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
at what he has done, His principles are about democratic | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
socialism, he has put that up. He is not a so-called strong, | :40:06. | :40:12. | |
tough leader, what he is is a leader who is a caring leader, | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
who listens to people and in terms of the iceberg, | :40:16. | :40:17. | |
the reason why the Titanic broke up was because it was too bloody | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
brittle and that is a problem that will happen with Theresa May, | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
she is much too brittle, does not understand the issues | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
like someone like Jeremy Corbyn who collects the information | :40:27. | :40:37. | |
and goes through those Sajid Javid, under the leadership | :40:38. | :40:39. | |
of Theresa May we are If Jeremy Corbyn enters Number Ten | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
after this election, we will have him in charge | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
of our Brexit negotiations, John McDonnell in charge | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
of our economic policy and Diane Abbott in charge | :40:51. | :40:52. | |
of our national security. Can you imagine the disaster | :40:53. | :40:54. | |
that would be unleashed He would only be able to govern | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
through a coalition and today he has offered to have discussions | :40:57. | :41:04. | |
with the SNP on that, imagine The day after the election, | :41:05. | :41:06. | |
only one of two people can be standing outside Downing Street, | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
it is either Theresa May leading that government in the national | :41:13. | :41:14. | |
interest or Jeremy Corbyn I would rather have Jeremy Corbyn | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
than a bloody difficult woman The Lib Dems have made clear | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
we will not go into coalition with either the Labour Party | :41:24. | :41:34. | |
or the Conservative Party this time. This might be the experience | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
of the last seven years. In 2010, we went into | :41:38. | :41:39. | |
coalition because actually, and I am afraid to say, | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
we got vilified by the Green Party amongst others for daring | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
to go into coalition. We thought that was the grown-up | :41:48. | :41:55. | |
and responsible thing to do Did not do you much good | :41:56. | :41:57. | |
in the West Midlands, you got no MPs We got quite a few environmental | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
and social policies passed the Conservatives | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
while we were there, including taking two or 3 million | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
people out of tax and the lower paid, including environment policies | :42:09. | :42:11. | |
that have been rolled back Although we got a bit | :42:12. | :42:13. | |
of a kicking as everybody knows, I still think that was the right | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
thing to do and it was The trouble is, in the meantime | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
the Tory Party has moved to the point where it is virtually | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
indistinguishable from Ukip. Brief final word, are we a coalition | :42:28. | :42:29. | |
of chaos or strong and stable? I think that the coalition is much | :42:30. | :42:37. | |
more appealing and I have to tell you that Jeremy Corbyn, | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
I have never seen a politician bullied as much and he has come | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
through as strong as ever. Well, there we are, I know | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
lots of you want to get in but I am afraid the clock is the ultimate | :42:57. | :43:04. | |
arbiter on these occasions. Really is where we must | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
end our debate for this evening. Thank you to our panellists | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
for answering the questions and a particular thank | :43:12. | :43:13. | |
you to everyone here in our audience here tonight | :43:14. | :43:15. | |
at the Birmingham Ormiston Academy. I will be back with the latest | :43:16. | :43:29. | |
from the general election The Sunday Politics is in its usual | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
slot at 11 o'clock on Sunday From all of us here | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
tonight, good night. Hear the arguments | :43:37. | :44:03. | |
from the politicians themselves. | :44:04. | :44:07. |