West Election 2017: Where You Live

What will next week's general election mean for us in the West?

Which issues are going to impact most on our lives?

Bristol's Bottle Yard Studios are normally home to some

Poldark and Sherlock to name just two.

But tonight's special performance is a panel

of would-be West Country MPs, fighting for every vote, quizzed

For me, it's Brexit is the biggest issue.

Conservative Jacob Rees-Mogg, Tessa Munt for the Liberal Democrats,

Daniel Woolf from Ukip and from the Greens,

Welcome to Election 2017, a BBC Points West special debate.

Welcome, good evening, from the Bottle Yard Studios,

this is the place where they used to make all that

The election polls are getting interesting, the gap

And you can join us in our debate tonight.

We are on Twitter, our hashtag is #GE17west.

There is also special coverage on the BBC website.

If you go to the BBC News pages and then

follow the local links, you will find us.

Our first question tonight comes from a young man, Rhys Coombes.

As a young person, I want to be confident that I'm growing up

How will politicians like yourselves ensure that this

In the light, of course, of what's been happening in Manchester,

those scenes which have shaken and left us heartbroken,

Sarah Church, how can you ensure that that young man's generation

Counter-terrorism is a layered approach, and I think what Labour

are offering in terms of putting money into security will be

At the moment, Government security services do an excellent job,

but what they have lost out on is a layer of support,

and that is in the form of community policing.

We are promising 10,000 more community police who will work

with local communities, for example as part of the Prevent

strategy, although that in itself does need to be looked

at and rewritten in my view, that they will work with Government

agencies, and it's that combined approach to make sure that we're

We also will be putting 500 more border guards to make sure that

when we do conduct security checks at our borders, we are fully

resourced to make sure that our security is as good

Sarah Church, you're a retired Army major, is that right?

And you're married to a soldier who was injured in Afghanistan.

Do you think Jeremy Corbyn's remarks that our involvement in other

people's countries has made us less safe?

I think that actually the history of our involvement in

the Middle East and in Central Asia goes further back than this decade.

In fact, it's over a hundred years old.

When you serve in those countries, you hear from people

about their view of the British that goes back over a long time.

So I think that the causes for fundamentalist views

are many and complex, there is the phenomenon of Wahhabism

which is something that is quite separate to their views

Is Mr Corbyn right that we've made it worse?

So I do think that everything we do when we involve ourselves abroad

will have a reflection on us domestically.

This is not a party political matter.

The first duty of all and every Government is the security

and safety of the nation, and this is both obviously

anti-terrorism, but it is the Armed Forces and our general

I think securing our borders is going to be very important.

One of the advantages of Brexit is that we will have an opportunity

to maintain our own borders without them being a European

We need to look at extremism, domestically within this country,

and work on the Event strategy to try and find out where extremism

is rising and to try and stop it at source,

And that's not easy to do, but it's got to be part of the strategy.

There is intelligence, funding for intelligent

There is the activity of all of us but reporting suspicious activities.

And as you all did when you came in today, accepting the intrusion

Jacob, we've seen armed officers over this bank

holiday in Gloucester, Swindon, Bristol and beyond.

Do you accept what Mr Corbyn said, in which the Foreign Secretary

appeared to say as well, that actually our involvement

in other people's countries has made things worse, particularly Iraq?

If you look at 9/11, that came before we went into Iraq

in the second Iraq war, and it was a response

I think there are issues with our relationship with the Saudis,

because a lot of the funding for some of the terrorists

I think the second Iraq war was a mistake, but I don't think

that justifies terrorism or even begins to.

I don't think the Sykes-Pico line is a justification for terrorism,

I think these are lunatic people who believe in an evil ideology,

and we have to search them out, we have to arrest them

and prosecute them, we have to keep our borders secure,

and we have to fight them at every step of the way.

OK, I'm going to ask some of the audience to come in on this.

But before I do, James Francis, you also submitted

What point did you want to make, James?

Could instances like the Manchester bombing and the introduction of more

Armed Forces on the streets across the country, including

the West, have been avoided if police numbers hadn't been cut?

I don't think it could have been stopped, but I think the level

Does anyone in the audience want to speak on this,

or should we hear more from our guests first?

Let's go to Molly Scott Cato, and then we will come

I think we need to deal with this in a number of different ways.

It's a good question, Rhys, and I would like to think that

you could live in a country where you feel safe and secure,

so I think it is important that we fund the police properly.

I think it's also important that we have surveillance.

But we don't want to become the sort of society where we are so heavily

surveilled that we feel we are losing our basic freedoms,

and if we did move towards being that sort of society,

in fact we would have done the terrorists'

work for them, I think, because they are deliberately

trying to undermine some of our basic freedoms.

And to come to the comments by Jeremy Corbyn, I think

we absolutely have to condemn this act, and it is obviously

the act of an individual, for which they are responsible,

and all such violent acts should be condemned.

But I think we also need to think about our foreign policy,

and the way our foreign policy has affected the way certain

communities and individuals in this country feel.

Obviously the Green party strongly opposed the Iraq war,

but there was also the intervention in Syria, and interesting only 13

Has there been any conflict that the Greens have been in favour of?

The Green party didn't exist then, but clearly we would

But what I'm talking about here is the sort of freelance

interventions in the Middle East where there is no clear plan,

no clear strategy for what might be achieved, and in the case

of the Syrian adventure, there were only 13 MPs

One was Caroline Lucas and another was Jeremy Corbyn.

To address some of the points that have been raised so far.

I think sovereignty will allow us, and leaving the EU will give us

the sovereignty we need to protect our borders

And I think in response to some of these attacks,

It's not enough to keep, I guess, turning the other cheek, as it were.

Your leader's been talking about the death penalty.

A lot of people are beginning to come around and rethink

whether or not the death penalty is right for this country.

Now, it would be interesting to have a referendum on it,

and based in light of the view that we have DNA evidence

which can be scrutinised, we have CCTV evidence and so on,

so there may well be a case in certain circumstances

if it is absolutely unequivocally obvious that this person is guilty,

and that people, a separate set of justices that are independent

of politics agree, then there may be a case for it.

But I think it's an issue that needs to be put to the people,

because times have changed, and we need to not just

keep calm and carry on, but we also need to get tough,

Tessa Munt, how do you propose to keep Rhys's generation safe,

Well, I'm not sure that's within my grasp entirely,

but we need to work together, don't we?

And certainly I think some of the aspects of increasing

the amount of money we spend on community policing.

Police need to understand who is living in their local area,

and we've got officers who don't have the capacity to do that.

I think as you'll be aware we certainly feel

that there are issues about our borders.

It is very hard to keep our borders tight.

We are going to have a problem in Ireland in particular.

Goodness knows how on earth we police that border.

So we actually all of us need to be very alert and very aware,

and I'm actually concerned also about the reduction in the number

You know, the defence spending budget is going to become more

We are down to a situation where we are not keeping up

with our Nato defence spending, we are ?380 million short of that,

and yet we are still in a position where the number of troops

So I think it's good for the security services right

But we need to remember also and in the light

But we need to remember also and in the light of what's

happened in the last week, we've had a terrible,

terrible problem in our NHS, and we've also had other examples

OK, but I'm talking about heaping people safe.

I think the question was talking about...

But actually, if your data isn't safe in the NHS, or anything else,

we are very dependent on modern technology, and all of that sort

Right, does that answer your question, at least

I think a lot of the points made do, but I think one thing I would point

out is that to suggest as the Green party have that increasing

security let the terrorists win, I did accept that.

I think the terrorists' aim is to kill, to destroy

If we have to increase security to stop them,

and that's what it takes, I think we should do that,

because I think the terrorists don't want, they don't really care how

much CCTV is on our streets, they care how many of us are living

One point therefore the gentleman with the spectacles.

I'm slightly irritated by that, really, because I see a reaction,

it's a reactive thing that we are being sold,

It's not leadership, and leadership is about being counterintuitive.

It is about not responding to fear, it's about standing up

for what we are is a country, what we the people are,

We are not something that is going to be battered around

We are not somebody that needs to escalate like we did before

We need to stand up and take a counterintuitive position,

and I'm not seeing this from this Government at all or any

I am going to come to the audience a lot more as the programme goes on.

We are spending around ?120 billion on the NHS this year,

Is this sacred cow worth saving in its existing form?

I don't think it's worth saving in its existing form.

I think the fundamental principle of the NHS,

that treatment should be free at the point of use,

But the structures as to how you provide that are ones that

inevitably need to change and be updated to ensure that the money

The Conservatives have committed to a further ?8 billion in real

terms over the next parliament, following the 10 billion

that they committed to in the previous parliament.

So the money is continuing to be put in.

But I think the fundamental premise of the question is right.

There are over the next decade going to be two million more

The strains on all our social and health services

Would you like to see a private system, I guess that's...

That principle is absolutely fundamental, that the service should

But should we do more things like the hospital in my constituency

, in Peasedown St John, that provides very good

support to the health service but are themselves private?

Privatisation would be taken away the fundamental principle of free

Privatisation means selling a company into the private sector.

All health services, and the National Health Service

throughout its history, has bought in private

That has happened since it was founded, and that

Indeed, the greatest advance in buying in private services came

under the Government led by Tony Blair.

First of all, just to correct a few points, that ?10 billion isn't

anywhere near what is going to be spent on the NHS by

the Conservatives, and that ?8 billion that's promised

So is it worth saving in its existing form?

I do believe that we need to make changes.

I think the integration of the National Health Service

with the National Care Service is long overdue, and if we're

going to see two million more elderly people,

who happily are living longer due to medical advance,

we need to take care of them properly with an integrated service.

So I believe it is worth saving for that reason also.

But when it comes to parcelling out and commissioning,

if we're not using the word privatisation, although

commissioning services is privatisation, of course.

What we're doing is we're allowing private providers to become the sole

providers of certain services that we can no longer

provide within the NHS, and they then can charge

So I think we need to bring everything back into public hands,

make sure that the public sector is in control of the

You're committed, of course, to the National Health Service?

Absolutely, and I think it's the most amazing

service in the world, but actually, when you look

at what's happening, our National Health Service

There are a number of things that have actually lead to that.

My lot have decided the best thing we can do is put

a penny on income tax, purely for the NHS.

But that should be ringfenced because otherwise this kind

I've never understood why the NHS and adult social care

are two separate services, that seems completely lunatic.

We've got people who're working in the NHS,

many of whom come from the EU, we need to protect their

We also need to make sure that that penny...

Sorry, the 1% pay freeze, just get shot of that.

But who would pay for all this, Tessa?

Well, we've worked out exactly how you might pay for that, and we've

This penny on tax, how much would that raise?

6.7 billion, which goes some way to actually making sure...

But the Conservatives are offering to put in 8 billion.

We've heard it before, and it's not going to go anywhere.

We delivered on it when we were in coalition with the Lib Dems!

But the other thing, the other thing is, actually,

the Conservatives have actually cut the bursaries to NHS students.

We've got a crisis in GPs, crisis in nursing.

Why on earth would you say, you can't have a bursary

Let's pause there a second and let Jacob answer.

On the bursaries point, taking away the bursaries has

meant that more nurses are going into training

Since 2010, there have already been 11,500 more nurses

in the NHS by the coalition, of which Tessa was a notable part,

and the Conservatives, and that has continued.

If you're going to train more, you need more going into training,

and bursaries has limited the funding that was

You have to have an equal system where everybody can get into it.

You don't just have the rich becoming our medics.

If you look at student loans, it has seen take up going all the way

through the social categories, that everybody is able to get

a loan, and they only pay it back when they're earning over ?21,000.

And that has encouraged more people to go into higher education,

and this will apply to nursing as well.

Was it not the coalition that completely reneged on tuition fees?

I don't want to talk about tuition fees too

much, but the Institute for Fiscal Studies, Jacob,

says Conservative plans for NHS spending look very tight indeed

The Institute for Fiscal Studies is not the oracle of all information.

It said Brexit would be a catastrophe, which it wasn't.

They're an organisation that comes out with its views,

but the Conservatives are delivering exactly the amount Simon Stephens,

the head of the NHS, has asked for to make sure

the service continued to be delivered.

And the lady is right, who asked the question.

One second, the lady over there in the glasses has

I'm extremely concerned that the Conservatives are planning

to cut 66 A departments and maternity units.

In other words, people who are in urgent need of medical

care are going to find it impossible to get in some circumstances.

I don't think that shows any regard for public safety.

The lady here is correct, and I agree with Tessa, you know,

We're seeing people on trolleys, in corridors.

We're seeing reception areas being turned into reception

centres for patients coming in because we simply

And I think you can tell from the reception in this room

how popular the NHS is, it's absolutely not a sacred cow.

It's a precious jewel that we all value because we know

when we're sick it will be there for us.

And I was on a march in Bristol on Saturday to save our NHS,

and as we marched down the Gloucester Road,

And is there any limit to the amount of money that

Well, I think we should be very careful about the services

that we choose to have through the NHS, but

the most important thing at the moment is that we are...

You keep asking me these difficult questions and to pin

What I'm trying to say is that at the moment...

24% of the contracts in the NHS at the moment are going out

The three main Westminster parties are privatising by stealth and,

to my mind, this actually flies in the face of democracy,

that you don't want privatisation, and at the same time,

they are carrying on and doing it, and I can guarantee

to you the Green Party would never do that.

We pledge to have a fully public NHS.

If I may, I will just take the opportunity to remind

the audience both here and around the country that under the last

Labour Government there were some 50,000 excess deaths that weren't

necessary because of the cuts and whatnot.

Also under that same period, there were ?190 million spent

on managers in the NHS, and by 2010 that went up some

So it's not just about spending the money.

You've got to get the money on the front lines, you've got to

When the NHS computer systems crashed, people were saying

that there aren't enough managers, we haven't got enough IT people.

Well, if you've got too many chiefs and not enough Indians,

you've got a major problem, and when I see the fact

and hear the fact that there are lots of managers

and lots of people in the higher executive that are being paid

bonuses, and yet there are people who are going in to work in the NHS,

there are some departments which are run purely on goodwill.

I just want to hear a little bit from the audience.

Yes, the lady right in front of me there, hello.

I have a daughter already who is a nurse at the RUH,

and a daughter who will begin her training at UE in September.

My first daughter was able to take advantage of the NHS bursary,

To pay off any form of living expenses while she's there,

she'll have to work, with three children,

work on top of doing her studies, on top of her practice in the wards.

So can you imagine my daughter will probably have to have

about a 60 to 75 hour week, and still do her things.

Why is it you've brought in bursaries for nurses?

We have touched on that, thank you for your point.

One last one, the lady there with the striped jumper.

It worries me to hear lots of talk about figures,

lots of shilly-shallying about whether things

are being privatised in the health service or not.

They clearly have been outsourced to the private sector,

lots of services, for many years, and it's a question

People's priority, I feel sure, in this country,

is to have a decent health service, which is what we've got in terms

But when we can spend billions and billions of pounds

not only on Trident, for example, but on bailing

out banks and on giving corporation tax to the wealthy,

who can afford to pay more, I think it is shameful of this

..to be carrying on the way they are.

Just to remind you, you are watching an election special

Welcome if you have just joined us, we are at the Bottle

A reminder that you can follow us on Twitter,

There is also special coverage online, if you go

to the local live pages, you will find us.

So if you're frustrated at not being able to have your say here,

Let's take another question, if we could.

Will the West of England suffer without EU funding?

And I think the most important thing is for people to have understood,

it would have been nice if people had understood exactly how

much EU funding comes into the South West,

It comes in through tourism, it comes in through farming,

there are all sorts of other support programmes.

And I really, I am dismayed that there's no real plan

My area is very dependent on farming, and when I look

at my particular patch, which I represented in 2010-2015,

that was nearly ?2 million coming into my area rather than the amount

Tessa, why then, did the majority of farmers vote to leave?

I'll tell you exactly why, because they trust the Government

to make sure that that subsidy, if it's tailed off,

and a lot of them are very clear about the fact that they don't

want to have subsidies, but they don't expect it to go off

a cliff edge in 2019, and the other part of that

contract with the Government, is that the Government will make

sure they get a fair price for their products.

And that doesn't happen, and we have, in the Conservatives,

a Government that is not in the slightest bit interested

in protecting what they see as just a single percentage,

Let me go to Labour, and Sarah Church.

Yes, so I represent a slightly more urban constituency in South Swindon.

Well, I am standing for them, I do hope to, yes.

So EU funding for us is something I'm looking at to do

with technical innovation, entrepreneurialism, for example

the structural investment fund that small business was able to draw on.

I think it's very important that we go into Brexit

with a constructive and collaborative attitude

and friends to make sure that when we do leave,

off the cliff edge that I think is promised by Theresa May with her,

but if attitude, so that those people in Swindon, the 10,000 jobs

that already exist that rely on some form or other of access

to the single market and the customs union,

that those new entrepreneurs and technical innovators

who are going to do things I can't even imagine yet have got

the vestment they need to become the business people

And do you back the idea from Labour that you wouldn't walk

Yeah, it seems a bit nonsensical really to give this club

that we are trying to get out of a load of money only for them

to tell us and give it as back and tell us how to spend it.

Surely we should just retain that money and then have the sovereignty

to make the decision ourselves on where we put that money?

And do we expect, I hate to mention it, but the ?350 million a week...

When can we expect to see that coming our way?

I can tell you, that figure, I was disgusted with the way

the campaign was fought on both sides, actually, and as a campaigner

on the local doorstep, when we got 59% in Gloucester,

that wasn't because we were campaigning the way

the national people were, we were grass-roots cross-party

It was on the bus, and I'm sure, but what we need to do is first

of all secure the means to get the money back, and after

that we can decide on how best to spend it for our people

and our citizens without other people who are unelected

trying to impose on us how we do that.

Get your points ready, because I am going to come

to the audience very soon for some brief points, if you don't mind.

Molly Scott Cato, are we going to suffer if we lose EU funding?

Well, I'm the member of Parliament for the whole of the South West,

I represent all of you in the European Parliament.

I fought very hard against Brexit because I think for a number

of reasons it is going to be very damaging for the South West,

and the one you've identified in your question is one of them.

As Tessa has already pointed out, farmers depend very heavily

on the payments that have come from the common agricultural

policy, and of course, in particular has been dependent,

about ?400 million worth of funding, so what we have to ensure

is that people like Jacob, who argued that we should

leave the single market, that we should leave

the European Union, ensure that all that money is made up.

My job as MEP for the South West, and if I continue to be an MP,

is to continue to hold them to account for that,

because the risk is quite strong that...

We will take a couple of points from the audience first.

I feel like universities are going to lose the most from Brexit,

especially the research that they do and the foreign students that

you have coming in to also stimulate the local economy.

A lot of students in Bristol and around the area,

and we are going to lose a lot from that.

Anybody else want to say, gentleman in the front row?

This point about supporting farmers, the UK were supporting farmers

They can easily do that after the EU.

We don't need the EU to help farmers, thank you very much,

especially when you put three quid in and get two quid back.

I want to come back to the absolute question.

Will the West of England suffer without EU funding?

We will not, because it's our money with a slice taken by Brussels.

The Conservatives have already said that all the agricultural

But that agricultural support has come with conditions that have made

it harder for farmers to be efficient farmers.

Farmers say to me in North East Somerset that they feel

they are made less efficient because of the payments

They will welcome being able to farm as well as they possibly can,

because they are good farmers, and that's what they want to do.

What we have to ask ourselves about this money, our money,

is who do we really want going into those

And being clear with the European Union that we are not

giving them 100 billion euros that they are asking for.

We have no legal obligation to give them anything,

and that's very important, because this 100 billion puts

the 350 million on the back of a bus into a cocked hat.

The amount they are asking for is absurd, and we have to be

tough in those negotiations to make sure we get the best deal,

and no sensible person goes into a negotiation without saying no

Let's take the Labour view on this as well.

I would say that over the last few weeks, Mrs May has shown herself

to be someone that we can't trust from one week to the next to say

I do not trust that she has my best interests, my children's best

interests or the constituents of South Swindon's best interests

I think she'll be just trying to save her own skin.

Jacob, you had your doubts about Mrs May.

She was your least favourite, I seem to remember.

Have you changed your mind, very quickly?

Very quickly, it's like the refining of a precious metal.

I worked through all the fool's gold and realise that the 24 carat

Our next question, moving swiftly on, and it's about education,

Can the panel offer any reason to justify

Tessa, in fact you went to more than one grammar

Tessa, what do you think about the possibility

I have to say, I think, Raymond, you are probably slightly more

senior in years than some other members of the audience,

and I have to say that the idea that you were too thick when somebody

took a complete snapshot of your life at the age

of 11 and what you knew is an appalling situation.

Education should be a continuous process.

I do not understand how anyone can think it's a sensible idea to put

taxpayers' money into grammar schools and free schools

I think the idea of doing that and taking money out of the sector,

out of our ordinary schools, is bonkers.

Now, I have to say to you that where I live, which is an area

some of you will know, Glastonbury and Cheddar and Wells,

Shepton Mallet and Highbridge and Burnham and the other places.

But the reality is, how do you do a grammar school

OK, gentleman in the front row, what do you think?

I went to a public school, but I do not support grammar schools.

My view is it is just taking money from the general education budget

to give to a small group when there is not enough money

Daniel Woolf, you teach at a grammar school?

I taught at two grammar schools in Gloucester,

and Gloucestershire has seven grammar schools in the entire

county, so it's an issue that is quite hot for us.

I think a one size fits all education policy or education

system is like trying to get a goldfish to climb trees.

So as well as being selective, I'd go one further,

Let's have grammar schools for the academically gifted.

Let's have creative and technical colleges for those who have

And let's make sure that actually in this day and age we can

have an individualised, personalised system which takes

The 11 plus works very well for dealing with those that

I think we need to look at other talents.

We need to actually talk to the kids and say,

Where are your strengths and weaknesses?

And if we can tailor it to them, we will get better results.

As a parent, that sounds utterly bizarre, that my children should

choose whether they want to do art or maths.

Why should the choice, why should they have to worry

about whether or not those talents will be encouraged or nurtured

Because a comprehensive will nurture all of their talents.

So there is a fallacy here about parental choice

It is not about parents choosing schools, it is about

Bright children, if you want to be talking in academic terms, in very

narrow terms as well, as the mother of three

might be called traditionally bright, a creative middle one and

maybe a more engineering focused third child.

The point is, they're all smart kids that deserve the best

all three should be going through a homogenised system

The rather that one that actually counts their individual talents.

You're a teacher, put some trust in our teachers.

The teachers at the school where I'm a

governor give an individual teaching programme to my children

and they do it to the best strengths of those children, which are many

Comprehensive education, when you put bright, academically

bright children brings the standard up for everybody.

So to be divisive about people who are able to pass an

Yes, the gentleman in the T-shirt, straight

Yeah, I did like Daniel's point about

diversity as opposed to a centralised system where everyone

And also, I do think that there's people at grammar

schools who will struggle harder socially, you know.

You might call them a nerd, but they do, they

do, sort of, feel more comfortable in that setting in the grammar

Hi, I think the culture you can get from a grammar school is

fantastic, it's ambitious and it helps you to strive in whatever

field they do so, but where it doesn't work is that the movement

between schools isn't fluid enough, and for a child to go into a

grammar school age of 11, they're going to have to rely on having

parents that will create that environment at home whereas there

are many students who only realise sort of the potential they have when

they reach the age of 17 to 18 and for universities that's too late.

I will bring in Jacob to bat for the Government in just a second.

The first two went to school in Wales where there was one school,

because everybody sent their children there.

My daughter went to school in Gloustershire where there are

selective schools and it was extremely decisive.

It was very difficult to decide as a parent whether I was

I think it was a disgrace that some people were

condemned to failure from the age of 11.

So I absolutely don't support the idea of selective education.

We need to have all our young people in

the same schools, getting to know each other to build a strong

Actually the Green Party will go further than that.

We think the endless testing of our young

people is putting a great deal of stress on them.

We should abolish SATs and stop this relentless testing of our young

People which we don't think is serving the interests. And at the

time when education budgets are so squeezed, and we will take comments

about that later on, is it wise to talk about introducing grammar

schools and giving money for that very small group that might be

affected? I think the lady on the far right got to the nub of the

issue which is that it is nuanced. It isn't something that should be

done everywhere, but it is part of an overall educational choice,

because we know that grammar schools are centres of educational

excellence, and that should be encouraged. Educational excellence

is a good thing in itself. On top of that we know that there are

difficulties with an 11 only move into grammar schools, and we want a

greater fluidity to allow brighter children to move at a later stage.

90% of grammar schools are ranked by Ofsted as good or outstanding, so to

include them in the educational mix seems to me to be wise and will

improve the overall standard of education in this country, which to

me is going to be very important in our competitiveness in the next

decades, high-quality education will be crucial. Grammar schools provide

that. Why not make that more broadly available? And I think it is very

sensible. 50% of our secondary schools in Swindon at the moment are

less than good, and that isn't because the teachers are not trying

their hardest, it is because they are chronically underfunded. To then

decide perhaps the other five, one or two of them will be grammars, and

if you happen to be one of the others, you will be cast off into

lifelong presumably, thoughts about yourself as less than clever. I'm

sure you are not sick at all, but you brought that up, and to give

children that stigma and label by separating them out... There is so

much that says that if you put funding into the youngest of

children, increase educational opportunity, that is why we

introduced free school meals, and the idea of taking that out is

madness. Because the really important thing about free school

meals, Jacob, is that it means every child can learn in the afternoon,

because they are not hungry and they are all treated equally and

everybody gets the benefit. Free school meals are going to go back to

being means tested. But this is not all about funding. The schools in

Bath and North East Somerset by all governments have been consistently

underfunded compared to schools in Bristol, they have had less money

per pupil in decades, and yet Bristol parents often want to send

their children to school in Bath and North East Somerset because they

have got such good results. It is not all about funding, it is about

structures and quality, and grammar schools are successful. I just want

to go back, because you brought up the free school meals. When the

Prime Minister, who you say is so strong and stable, when somebody

said, I suggest we take free meals away from six-year-olds, why did she

say, yes that's a good put it in the manifesto? Free school meals will

continue to be provided for those whose parents can't afford them.

That is really rubbish... It is sensible. There is a limited amount

of public expenditure, and you want to devote the resources to those who

need it most. In our last few seconds, a couple of points, the

lady in the front? How can you justify pumping money into grammar

schools when there are children in schools sending home letters asking

parents for money from glue sticks and Sela tape, how can you justify

that when you're putting money in grammar schools when are failing,

offensive is. I went to a grammar school, but that was because the

comprehensives we not great. Thank you very much. That I'm afraid

brings us to the end of our 45 minutes, it has felt much shorter. I

hope it has helped you decide at home where you want to put your

cross next week. No doubt the debate will continue both here and online.

Don't forget our hashtag on Twitter is #GE17west. You can watch this

programme again on the iPlayer if you would like to. But for now, my

thanks to all of us here, and from us, good night.

APPLAUSE Hear the arguments

from the politicians themselves.