Gore Vidal - Writer HARDtalk


Gore Vidal - Writer

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on Tuesday at the age of 86. This edition of hard to talk -- HARDtalk

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was recorded in 2008. The US is the world's pre-eminent

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economic and military power. But the American mood is characterised

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by uncertainty. Opinion polls point to a hunger for change, but will

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this year's presidential election deliver it? For six decades, my

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guest has just did -- charted the course of the US and novels,

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commentary and essays. Is the sun Gore Vidal, welcome to HARDtalk.

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Thank you. Happy to be here. That may begin with this year's

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presidential election. Do you care who wins the White House? I don't

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take it personally, know. Does it matter? Yes, of course it matters.

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It matters to everybody. We have had an apparent government for

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quite some time now. The current president has never been elected by

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the people. Mr George W Bush was applauded by the Supreme Court, re-

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elected to to a stolen election in a higher, and he is not even

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legitimate. Yet, he goes marching around calling himself the wartime

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President. Will he isn't one. He is making wars as he goes along. He

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knows that is where the power is. The power of the military

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procurement. I think he thinks he is a toy soldier. Leaving aside the

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contentious be used to have about the legitimacy of George Bush's

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elections, I am wondering about your response to my question about

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whether it matters. Reading your extensive writings on the current

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state of America, the basically portray a country that has sold out

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to corporate interests, when military and economic powers have

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fundamentally corrupted the ideals of the Republic. Why does it

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actually matter whether it is Bowe, Clanton or McCain? Would you like

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to visit Guantanamo with me and look for a cell? Weary police state

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now. People are being locked up. Rendition. I have just come from

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Italy where someone had been arrested on the streets of Milan

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and shipped off to Egypt in the interest of American security. You

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see, we are surrounded by enemies on every side and we must attack.

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It has been a reign of terror since 9/11, all cooked up by the most

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extraordinary crew of people we have never seen in high office. And

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the people are not consulted. We have the worst educational system

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for the general public have any First World country. Simultaneously,

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we have a totally corrupted media that serves you ever is in power

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who will pay enough for television time. These big themes you trot out

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about war, education, failed media, these are protracted over time. Yet,

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you seem to be saying there is something exceptional about the

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Bush years. I am confused about this disjuncture. Don't be confused

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any longer. We have never had the constitution dreaded by a sitting

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President, but that has happened. A few months ago, we got rid of our

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lovely gift from England. Habeas corpus and so on. The Magna Carta.

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It's gone. It was the basis of our legal system. It is gone. D believe

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that when you say these things, most Americans have sympathy with

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you, or are you talking to a very small number of people? I have to

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warn you about something. I'm very popular. I'm not some aberrant he

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goes around saying unpleasant things about whoever happens to be

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the poet -- president. Unfortunately, I have to

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occasionally. We were lucky to get thank you pretty good candidates on

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the Democratic side in this election and one of the most

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incredibly awful ones in Senator McCain on the Republican side. Do

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you remember Mr Magoo? Blind, misses the point to everything, is

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always stepping off a cliff. Senator McCain is Mr Magoo. He is

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the most experienced candidate. he is the most experienced

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candidate. No he isn't. He smashed up his aeroplane. Normally, you get

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a court-martialled for that. Then he was taken prisoner and held for

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a long time and made no effort to free himself. Did he not show

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enormous courage? Discourage matinee President? Not courage of

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that kind. What has he ever done? What has he ever step -- said or

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stood for? What he has done over many years in the US Senate is

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stand up to many in his own party. He showed an independence of mind

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which might well be a useful asset in a President of the US. It might

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well be if he had any glimpse of sincerity and a nature -- of

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sincerity. He has a nature that is Magooish. But me ask you about

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Obama and Clanton. You are a Democrat and have always been.

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Sometimes, you seemed to sympathise more with Hillary Clinton. Now that

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the race appears to be in its final lap and Obama is regarded by

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pundits as certain to win the nomination, t think she should

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withdraw? No. She has fought a good fight. It was for something larger

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than herself. You could argue it is just for herself, she is the

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candidate. But simultaneously, no woman has ever got that far in our

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politics. She has been a brilliant politician and I certainly wish her

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well. You were quoted recently as suggesting that her continued

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pursuit of the presidency was crazy. Well, I'm looking at it

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sympathetically from her point of view. It is crazy. She does not

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have the money, she is desperately trying to raise it. She has the

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entire press against her. The Republicans are very good at

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smearing people. We had a very good candidate in Senator Kerry. An old

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trick of political gangsters is one of the opponent is strong, Kurri

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was a genuine war hero, and he was knocked down for that. They said

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that he was not courageous, he lied. They had people come out and they

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spent a lot of money smearing him. You are very adept at turning your

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answers in two attacks on the Republican Party... It is very easy

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to. But in the Airtime, Clanton fight, there are many people on the

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Obama side of the fancy believe it is the Clintons who are responsible

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for introducing a very strong and arguably dangerous racial element.

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This is exactly what the other team wants to do. The only thing they

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know is how to smear people. The other day, there was a guy called

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Ludwig who is a Neo-conservative -- Neo-conservative of the lowest form.

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He published an op-ed piece in the New York Times. An extraordinarily

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bad newspaper in my view. He was saying with no evidence - everybody

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in America -- everything in America his opinion - the opinion was that

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we should be wary of Bowe. -- of Hillary Clinton said she was the

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candidate who could appeal to the white working class. Was that a

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mistake? Note. To say it in racial terms? She did not do it in racial

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terms. Her various handlers in a party where she was strong with the

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boats. I'll tell you where she was weak. It gets a nice laugh. When

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she started to run for senator for New York, they discovered that

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there was one group that really hated her. This is white middle

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aged men of property. She was talking to others and asking what

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she had done to them. She was trying to figure out how she could

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rectify this. Some time after she had been told the bad news, I saw

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her and she said "Apparently a remind them of their first wife."

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let me ask you about Bowe. He said he is fresh but has not done

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It is standard political rhetoric for a liberal from Chicago in a

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race for president. People have compared him to JFK. JFK was not

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the greatest statesman of all time. He was certainly a rhetorician who

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could electrify the American public. He went there. I was not around at

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the time but I have seen his speeches and they are quite

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extraordinary. So what? A good speech is a good speech. That's

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that. What is a good policy? Was his invasion of Cuba a good policy?

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Jacking up the war in Vietnam? Into a major war. This is enough bad

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activity on his part. He is not a parrot on. But if Bowe wins, would

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you change your mind about him? don't want a man mouthing cliches.

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Let me ask you to take a step back. You have been an observer of

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politics, not a player. Yet, in your career, you could have been a

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player. The Democrats wanted to. He ran for office once and were

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offered what looked like a safe congressional seat but decided not

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to do it. I was writing books again and that is far more important than

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seven in Congress. Is it? Yes it is. The books make more of a difference

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then serving your country in Congress? I would like to take you

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on the floor of Congress and see all the lobbyists outside lined up.

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They have a buzzer in the House of Representatives that goes up. It

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means there is about to be a boat called. As you go end, two or three

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lobbyists will say eight years on one for 7, No on this one. They are

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getting their orders. From the people who are giving them the

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money. You can be pure and not listen, but it is a rough fight. I

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would rather take on those who are out to destroy the Republic.

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your weapon is a novel Warren as a? -- SA, what difference can you

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make? -- a novel or an essay. seem to have it. Do you think you

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have? I can prove it. Fine. I have Paul's done on me. What did you

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most like about the speech he gave, what positions do you approve work?

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We read your work and we hear many criticisms. The actually love your

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country? You seem to have a complicated country. Anyone who

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loves the country is in such trouble. That is nonsense. Added

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that has come every war, every family and everything that is wrong.

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-- fan and. But you care about the US? Why am I talking to you about

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it? It is not that I am exhilarated by sitting here. I suspect it is

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not. What is the answer? Why had he spent most of your time writing

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about the ideals that brought America into being, about its

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history? Shouldn't somebody do it? I am interested in the country, not

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me or my career. All the other writers who I know, they are only

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interested about themselves and making it. I could not give a god

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damn about making. It did not stop you from being waspish and bitchy

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about your fellow writers. If he didn't care... I only write about

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them occasionally as a critic. Always to praise. Chairman Capote

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he passed away, you described it as a good career move. I did say that.

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-- Truman Capote de. I am finding, from time to time. -- funny. I am

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jittery with insecurity. That number does not work. Capote de was

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the most illegitimate literary figure of we ever produced. He was

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a consumer Flyer. He never stop lying. I took him to court and I

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sued him. I won. He had to print a huge apology to mean in one of his

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books. You have spent a large part of your life, most of your creative

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years, in Italy. And yet you say you were not in exile. Of course I

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wasn't. What we doing? I was writing books about America.

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wouldn't it be more natural to be doing it in America? Your mind is

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in conflict. What does it give you? That distance? It gave me history.

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It gave me Aristotle. I am quite good with Aristotle. It allowed you

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critics, he had many in the US, to suggest your view of America was

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out of touch with the country that now is. It is not. I reminded you

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earlier, don't forget that I am popular. They read my books out

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there. You cannot pretend that I am unpopular. America in the world,

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you have written a lot about it. You have talked about an American

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empire which you see it as being in decline. Is it a terminal decline?

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I hope so. Henry James was no full when it came to politics. He ended

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up his life living every here as a Brit. But he said something very

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interesting. It was the time of the Spanish American war which we used

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as an excuse to seize the Philippine Islands. One of his

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nephews wrote to him and asked him about what is going on in the US.

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And he read a very ominous letter back to his nephew. He said, where

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an empire symbolises the British, it will further Barbara's house. --

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destroy asked. After 9/11, the Bush administration faced a challenge.

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There is no such thing. The Twin Towers came crashing down. You're

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underground when crashing up, whatever it did. This is a period

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of unrest. Do not believe, some people are very sympathetic to you.

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They admire you a great deal like Christopher Hitchens and Martin

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Amis. They are believed the US has a duty to take a stand for freedom

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and democracy in the face of intolerance. We had an idiot

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prisoner named Woodrow Wilson. He got us into World War One. -- idiot

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President. Why did we go to war? He wanted to make the world safe for

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democracy. Meaningless. Politically, a strategically and morally. There

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were never be a good war. You can never prove it by me. The Second

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World War? A war worth fighting? spent three years in it. For those

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who like wars, I suppose it was the only one we had for a while. What

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about Bill Clinton's admission that he wished he used American power to

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intervene in the wonder? He is a politician. He says anything that

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might work. Is there a moral obligation for the US... no I don't.

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Morality is the last thing to Republicans would ever do or talk

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about. We have been immoral from the very beginning. We did very

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well for a time. Now we get worse, and worse, and West. Your

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grandfather was an isolationist. So was I. I prefer to be an

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interventionist. England got into the bad habits, around 1939, in

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trying to draw the US into continental wars. It was no

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business of ours. Wisely, I should -- isolation less always won.

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Roosevelt was a very sighted man. He was all for getting us in. First

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of all, against Japan which was running riot in Asia. And the

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Europe with Hitler. Because you don't like a dictator does not mean

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you go to war all the time. We are almost at a time. Yes, we are, in

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every sense. Before time closes down on us. Do you think you are

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swimming with the tide of American history? If I was, I would reverse.

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You are a country Erian. No, I am practical. The US is going out of

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business and I do not enjoy that. We are irrelevant. And it is

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irresistible, in its decline? cannot do it alone, can I? You told

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me you are very popular. I am but I am not going to run for president.

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