Joe Arpaio - Sheriff of Maricopa County, USA HARDtalk

Welcome to HARDtalk from Phoenix, Arizona. I'm in an open-air prison

known as tent city, it is home to more than 1000 inmates, the section

I mean right now is mostly illegal immigrants. This place is the

brainchild of my guess is today, the self-styled toughest sheriff in

America, drew up I/O. He has stoked a national controversy with his

all-out campaign against illegal immigrants -- Joe Arpaio. The United

States to Mexico, 100 miles to the south. The question is if his

campaign riding roughshod over the US Constitution?

Sheriff Joe Arpaio welcome to HARDtalk. In the last few years you

have focused your time and resources on the issue of illegal immigration.

Why? First of all the talk about resources. I had special grants from

the state legislature that helped out. When people talk about I waste

my budget going after just illegal aliens, the reason I started

focusing on this problem was to new state laws were passed, but no one

talks about. They talk about the present controversial calls a 1070

law that we had two other laws passed, human smuggling and employer

sanctions. So I decided to enforce those laws that happen to be

felonies. The laws on talking about. So I started enforcing the human

smuggling, arrested over 2000 people coming into our county, Maricopa

County, Arizona, and we arrested the smuggler, what they call coyotes,

and the co-conspirators. And when you say co-conspirators you regard

the people who are being smuggled as co-conspirators? Exactly. We are the

only agency doing that. County attorney has prosecuted those cases.

94% conviction rate. Why do you think no other authority regards

them as co-conspirators and you do and you lock them up? Why do you

think the difference is that? That's a good point. Maybe they don't care

about enforcing their illegal immigration laws. Maybe they're

Chiefs of police have to report to me is all city councils. But a

report to anybody but the 4 million people who live in this county. On

the elected sure. When you talk about other sheriffs, why they don't

do it and we have 15 surest total in Arizona. I don't speak for them. I

speak for me and that is what we have been doing. And speaking for

yourself, try to tell me how your attitude matches up to the words of

a state senator Russell Pearce who has been in the forefront of the

political effort to take on the illegal immigrants. He said not so

long ago" it is time to circle the wagons against illegal immigrants

who are responsible for a crime wave in our state and are stealing our

jobs." You bring the same mindset? Russell is a formal law enforcement

officer, in fact, there was my chief deputy for a year when I first took

office. So he has a lot of experience in law enforcement. Now

he is a state senator, politician. But he has been behind many of these

laws. That's right. Relating to illegal immigration. They have been

involved and upheld by other courts. But leaving aside the legality, and

we will get to law 1070 in a minute, but in terms of the mindset to use

the illegal immigrants as responsible for a crime wave and for

stealing jobs? Well first of all, it doesn't matter, it is a violation of

the law. Identical opportunity law enforcing guy, I like everybody up,

whether it is cookers or deadbeats or animal cruelty, murders, you name

it. It happens to be in the law that time enforcing. So it's... But you

have to prioritise. Any lawman has two because you only have limited

resources. I just wonder why you have chosen to prioritise

immigration issue when looking at the statistics, and am quoting here

from the independent immigration policy Institute, they say, I'm

quoting them" crime rates are falling in Arizona and research

shows immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the native born."

I believe the crime rates are now trying to take credit, nobody gives

me credit anyway, the crime has gone down in this county, just about the

time I started enforcing the illegal immigration laws, including crime

suppression operations. Where we go into certain areas and maybe a rest,

what, I'm trying to think of the figures, let's say the average of

100 people in a 15 hour were crime... These are your sleeps where

you go into, let's be honest about it, Latina communities. I've gone

into white communities, different types. I know you have but by and

large according to lots of local people I have spoken to, you go into

Hispanic and Latina neighbourhood, you sweep through, Deepika people,

sometimes on very trivial misdemeanours, and then you check

out the immigration status. Well that's not true, we have hit some

areas that happen to be Hispanic that there is a high crime rate

there still be go into areas where there is a high crime rate, not just

into neighbourhoods. We don't go on street corners arresting people

because they look like they are from another country. We don't do that.

We arrest all types of violators of the law in a crime suppression, from

peddlers to warrants that can go on and on. We will get back to that

because it gets to the heart of the debate right now about the law 1070

in Arizona but before we do, a fundamental point - is not the case

that immigration law defining it and implementing it and keeping

America's Borders safe, is a Federal government responsibility, not that

of the state or of local lawmen such as yourself? I was a Federal

official. For almost 28 years, I was the regional director of Mexico-

South America, Texas, Arizona for the US drug enforcement, I know

whether Mexican border is, I know where the problems are in tech

Mexico and other countries... So it isn't a responsibility as Sheriff of

Maricopa County. It is my responsibility, I have state laws I

am enforcing, I mentioned the two laws we are enforcing, we have an

intact before an inherent authority to enforce those laws and we do

enforce the bank robberies, ATF, FBI, for law enforcement does,

enforce federal laws in this country. But as you know much better

than me when the Federal courts, the district court look at the Arizona

and so-called SP 1070, the bill which would be new powers for

policing and checking immigration status of people, the district court

decided that this was fundamentally a Federal issue and that it blocked

some of the powers that were designed to go to the police here in

Arizona. That is the district Court, it is the PO, I assume, it will go

to the Supreme Court, there has been other rulings that Google law

enforcement can enforce the federal immigration laws so this is one

judge's opinion, it hasn't affected my operations, I'm still to bring

the same thing, I've been doing it for 30 years, nothing has changed

with me. You of course as Sheriff responsible for the security, the

well-being of the community. You are a community figure. As a worry that

so many figures in your own community and thinking about local

offices of the National Council of Civil Liberties, the Hispanic legal

and human rights movement, they are all absolutely adamant that the way

you interpret the law right now and even more so the new law 1070, are a

fundamental violation of rights and would drive to quote them "A wedge

between racial communities." First of all, if you say so many people in

the community, my poles are usually 80% said you were talking about a

small group of people. Your poles recently haven't been anywhere near

80%, the most recent one I saw your favourability rate was down to the

high 30s or low 40s. That was two years ago by a pollster, if you read

the polls it was 56%, you are talking about an old poll, let's

talk about current polls that have bit over 80%. Sir you were going

back to garbage that was printed two years ago, some pollster that

doesn't like me, but it doesn't matter, I know what my poles are, I

know what my support is. I know all the money I have raised for the next

election, millions of dollars, evidently someone likes what I'm

doing is the Sheriff. Sure, but it's a slightly different point from

actually considering the law, and on that issue it's interesting to me

that you have a picture of you shaking hands with the President,

President Obama. And it does seem to me the danger here is a few and your

supporters, although for a live like that to Piercy in Arizona, being on

a collision course with a president who has made it quite plain that he

does not believe Arizona should push ahead. You mentioned Obama and I

will respond to that, you see President Bush, I only met with

Obama as a courtesy to the Secret Service went the President comes

into town with the Sheriff like to meet with him. Of course you would.

Yes, he is my president and I would respect the office and maybe we

disagree on certain issues but it doesn't at all. What you do disagree

don't you because he also talked about this building a wedge, it the

Arizona law would drive a wedge between communities. I don't know

about that. I've had great support from the Hispanic community. I was

their hero at one time and I rest of the military reserve is on a highway

for putting guns in nine people on the street. They looked like they

were from Mexico. I rest of the military guy, I took a lot of heat

and it is you don't go around pointing guns are people because of

what they look like. Now I am the enemy. You are now, and I want to

put this quote to you because it is powerful and I wonder how you react,

Thomas Saines was the president of the Mexican-American legal defence

fund says" the way that you are treating the immigration issue now

is very similar, comparable, to what southern sheriffs were doing in the

United States in the early 1960s, refusing to bow to Federal antics"

those about desegregation. You see any comparison? You know, if I'm so

bad, as Sheriff, being in office, 17 years, what with the US government

Homeland Security train 100 of my deputies and gives authorities to

enforce illegal immigration laws? Why did they do that? 100 deputies

have been trained, five weeks of training, why would they do that if

this Sheriff is so bad? Another set of figures, it's interesting to

tease out what you make of them. An analysis by American civil rights

lawyers locally said 70% of those that were arrested in one of the

phased switch that you conducted in the area had Spanish surnames and

they point out that Maricopa county generally has 31% Latino population,

this was their way of saying whatever the sheriffs as there is

racial profiling going on right now in Maricopa County. How did he know

how many people we stop? How do they know how many people we arrested? We

didn't take 70%. Sometimes we do the crime suppression operation and the

criminals or the law, we arrest, they happen to be Hispanic. Just

happen to be? Ayr, we don't racial profile, we stop everyone.

Everybody. It doesn't matter who they are. When we stop the person

and it happens to be Hispanic, and also here illegally, we are not

going to overlook that. Would it worry you if the perception was

amongst Hispanic people in your community, that it actually wasn't

the case? You know, I think I have a lot of support from the Hispanic

community, legal people here, not the illegal,. It's not just Hispanic

groups, human rights groups who aren't happy, they are even police

chiefs who I imagine you regard as colleagues of yours who say that

your methods simply are wrong. I'm thinking of the chief of police of

miso, George Gascoigne, he says effective policing needs the

cooperation of minority communities and he says we, unlike Sheriff Joe,

focus on people who are committing predatory crimes. Really? Is he in

San Francisco now? Do you know that? He was in miso when he said that. I

will tell you that, he is going around locking people, hanging

around street corners, around buses, poor people? He says he only goes

after violent criminals. He says there was a fundamental issue and

you have to establish trust between communities in America and you have

failed to do that. Really? I have a lot of trust with the community, big

time. I have a hotline. A hotline. 8000 calls I got in a hotline to

report illegal immigrants violation. We are using for the information

comes from? Illegal aliens. That's how we get our information. Where do

you think you get information on dope peddlers? Drug trafficking? The

use of drugs? I get a lot of information, this is a copout by

police chiefs they are worried that the police will be missed trust with

the Hispanic community, it went given any information, it takes a

lot of resources, yet they can go after hawkers and task force with no

seatbelt and win 53% of the people in my jails are booked by all police

agencies are small crimes, so don't tell me that the only concentrate on

big-time crimes and files, the copout is this- they have to report

to politicians, they have to report to city councils, city managers, and

they do like to enforce the illegal immigration laws because some people

want amnesty in this area in this country.

I think, if I may, one of the reasons that Gascon was not happy

with you is that you took one of your well-known posses into his

neighbourhood. He described it as a deeply dangerous situation. IMC

elected sheriff, I can go anywhere I want in this whole county. He was

not doing the job on illegal immigration, so I did. And I have

the authority as the elected chief law enforcement officer to do that.

Maybe he should have been doing the job instead of going out with all

these activists, raising money against me. As a highly respected

lawman, you have been decorated across the United off states... The

world. Why are you facing an investigation from the bureau? When

you are high profile, you do get people looking into you. Is quite

extraordinary in your case, you seem to have upset so many people. A

whole host of local of issue officials accuse you of abusing your

power to investigate them. Not just what we talked about, you're

policing methods with minority groups, but also a systematic abuse

of your powers locally. That is not true. We co-operate with the grand

jury. I have been the first Federal official for 30 years, I know how

the government operates. They can have the investigations, I am not

concerned about it. Shouldn't you be concerned about it? Shouldn't the

people of the city be concerned about it? I will mention again my

polls, every day I am in the headlines. It doesn't bother the

people, they've read through all this garbage. It is a question of

what the mindset says about your attitude to law enforcement. I can

see the board which is about the conditions in your city, going into

the pink underwear that you force your prisoners to wear. Many of them

are in temperatures higher than 100 Fahrenheit. The question is, is it

your intent to dehumanise, humiliate the prisoners you are responsible

for? I am an old-fashioned guy, a senior citizen. When I grew up, when

he did something wrong, you took away a privilege. We even used the

word punishment. Sorry to interrupt, I know it is rude. Many people in

your tent city are awaiting trial. Everyone in that city are awaiting

trial. We celebrated our anniversary. Our men and women

fought for our country in Iraq, in Afghanistan. Any -- everybody in

those tents have been convicted. These conditions, including the pink

underwear, you have been proud to say that you only feed your

prisoners to meals a day, it is a id costing more to feed your dog is

Banna does your prisoners. We have dogs in the jail, yes. Some of the

prisoners under these conditions have yet to be convicted. These

conditions apply whether they are in the tents or not. I am just asking

you whether you think that is acceptable. Of course it is. They

get their 2500 calories. It is just not pepperoni pizza or steak where

they have television, smoking, coffee. I took all that away, took

it away. I was sued when I took away the coffee, but I won that case. So

where is the problem? The Hispanic community is the fastest-growing in

the United States. They are the biggest minority community, their

numbers are on the rise with a high birth rate, higher than pretty much

any other minority community in this country. If the Republican Party is

to form a coalition in future, they need Hispanic and Latina votes. Are

you helping the party reach out to that community? I don't do that, I

just lock them up. It has nothing to do with politics. I think the

Republican Party would like to be assured we lock up anybody, Italian

or whatever. It doesn't bother me if anybody says I am locking up

Hispanics, I am locking everybody up. You are very proud of your

roots, your family is Italian. They were immigrants themselves to the

United States. I know you will tell me they were illegal immigrants,

it's a fair point. In the end, your history is part of the rich American

immigrant experience. On a personal level, does it strike you as strange

that you have pitched up a job that is so much of what you do seems to

be a about stopping immigrants making a life in America? No, this

has been going on for three years when the laws were passed. Before

this job, I had other priorities. It is my job. To enforce the laws. I

deal with the President and Attorney General. I got along very well

working with the Mexican government. You would not get along with the

current Mexican President. Stick his nose out of our business. I know the

secrets of Mexico, I lived in Mexico for four years. He ought to worry

about his own problems, not the United States. Look at his

immigration laws, his presence, his corruption. He ought to be looking

at himself, not the United States. Coming back to something we

discussed earlier, if there has to be a collusion between the Federal

government and forces here in Arizona who want to pursue a

different agenda on immigration policy, are you ready for that? I am

ready for anything. You want to wipe the laws of the book? That is OK

with me. If the laws are there, I am going to enforce it. If not, I

won't. If the Feds intervened to tell you you can't do what you have

been doing? If that could be proven, and the law says... Justifies what

they say, of course I won't do it. I have survived 17 years, I hate the

word survived, but I have been getting shots for 70 years. People

wonder why you do it, you don't get much money, you don't want to be the

governor. When I leave, you'll forget my name. Why do I do this?

What objective? Because I'm getting little publicity? I don't need that.

What is my reason? I ask myself that. You're not going to asked me.

I was going to! When I go on the streets and everybody comes up to

me, almost everybody, and they said, thank you, sheriff, thank you for

what you're doing, that motivation, as long as they keep saying thank

you, thank you, I'll keep going. Time for me to say thank you. Thank

you for being on HARDtalk, Sheriff Joe Arpaio.