Peter Altmaier, Chief Whip of the CDU/CSU German parliamentary group HARDtalk

Peter Altmaier, welcome to HARDtalk. It is worth reminding viewers and

listeners that this can cause market turmoil. Are you conscious

of trying not to scare the markets? As the chief, probably they would

not listen to me. It is clear and obvious that Germany has a special

responsibility. We have to provide leadership together with partners

in the eurozone and also with our friends in the UK. Will there be,

at the end of this, a Greek default? I hope we can avoid it. We

have two goals to be followed at the same time. We want to stabilise

the eurozone. We want to keep all 17 member states of the eurozone

together of and second, we want to avoid default. That means Greece

has to do some homework. They have to consolidate. They have to reform

their administrative structures to privatise public enterprises, to

organise for free and liberalised markets. While this is under way,

we have an ambitious monetary process and we have made it clear

several times that the payment of new ventures of money, of fresh

money to Greece, depends on the progress that is made in the

general reforming process increase. We will come to that in a moment.

You just missed the suggestion. There is a growing list of names,

some who are so dividend, who think that is no longer possible. -- who

are important. He said to stabilise the euro, there can no longer be

any taboos. That includes bankruptcy of Greece. Europe should

be ready for a default. Also for Portugal and perhaps Ireland. 50

economists polled by Reuters - at the main scope on and on for those

who now think a default is inevitable. -- it the names broke

on. Economy has been sharply criticised by our Chancellor,

Angela Merkel. This is not the official line of the government.

What they have been doing - we Ardella ripping tours and

instruments. -- we are developing. It is not a euro crisis, it is a

debt crisis. These tours and instruments we need will be used to

deal with a development. We cannot really deter men for the next

couple of months. -- determine. We have managed to stabilise the

eurozone. As far as Portugal and Ireland and concern, there are a

clear signs of recovery in those countries. They are making big

progress and we are quite optimistic that Portugal and

Ireland will not only pay back the money and guarantees, but they will

also pay interest for that. They are to become flourishing countries.

The situation in Greece is much more difficult. Just coming back to

my question, you have said your economic Minister was reprimanded

for speaking out of turn. You cannot slight the opinions of

others in the same way. They understand your tools and

instruments and your efforts to stabilise Portugal and Ireland.

They are saying that a Greek default is in evitable. Please

answer that. Greek is a very special case. I would not go that

far to say that it is inevitable. We have to keep the markets in mind.

We have to look at side effects. At a possible Greg default. That will

certainly have the effects on other countries. You are saying it is not

desirable. That is not a argument for saying that it is avoidable.

say that we will try to avoid it. Whether we can avoid it depends on

the behaviour of the Greek government and parliament and on

economic developments in Greece. Leading politicians must speak in

favour of great default when we are trying to avoid it - that is

irresponsible. You can try as many times as you want. What I say is if

the Greeks will not meet the conditions, then we will not pay

out the next bunch of money. Or at the next few arrangements. This is

what has been explained to the present, by President Sarkozy come

up by Angela Merkel. They have cancelled a trip to the United

States. He is very busy with his colleagues in Cabinet to accelerate

the reform process in Greece and we should give them a chance. We

should give them a chance to deliver. I can add that my personal

concern is it would be much more expensive if we were to allow a

Greek default. Then many people would say. We have to be careful in

what we are recommending. But us look at that. The chances of

avoiding it. You said they have got to meet these conditions. My

question is is it possible for them to do so? Despite the austerity

measures, the fiscal deficit has widened. The GDP is falling. Bad is

very serious. -- that is. To make this clear, we cannot say you have

to stick to everything that was promised when it echoed. What we

can say is that there are a lot of structural reforms. There are a lot

of changes in the administration and legislation. This can be

implemented without any problems even in a period of recession. What

Wheen need is a credible side of the Greek commitment of reform. It

is a very difficult situation. I interrupt you? When you say take

account of their it. The British CASA says even if they pay it off,

the funds may still not be enough. What if the second bailout is not

enough? I think we should deal with the problems step-by-step. First,

we have agreed to a bailout one year ago. The second ballot was on

22nd July this year. -- bailout. This has not been implemented yet.

Let us wait and see what is going to happen. As a responsible

politician, I can talk about the next one or two weeks and then we

can say what we have to say when we know the developments in Greece and

elsewhere. You have to look at the trend. Many economists point to be

trained and Sadie austerity measures, which are a condition of

the bailout, are making matters worse. They had killing of growth

and making it impossible for Greece to cut its deficit. He said the

Greek economy is dying. Those were his words. The Greek economy is

dying. It is at least in a very serious and critical condition. We

need an open it exchange between the use of information. It will be

between the Greeks leading politicians. You are saying that

conditions are not really conditions - it is negotiable?

that is not exactly what I said. They break have to give us reliable

figures. We have to be in a position to know exactly what the

state of the Greek economy is these days. That means they have to co-

operate with the International company. They cancelled the trip to

Greece a couple of days ago. We are still not in a position to come to

terms with Greece. This is something that has to be changed.

He has now realised how serious the situation is and this is why he

returned back come from London. He was not going to the US and he has

decided to working Greece on a solution. His there are cut off

point for you? There has to be a point where you say this is not

working, and when is it? It is not up to meet to decide if and when

such a point will come. What we can say is that all these dealings with

the euro crisis, there has been a process. Doing by learning. We had

to accumulate experience and expertise. So far, we have avoided

a big recession in the world economy and this is something we

have to keep in mind. We and not just talking about Greece. Just 2%

of the GDP of the European Union. We are talking about the world

economy and the world economy is in a critical situation as the

consequence of a debt crisis. The United States as well. Do you have

prepared to say when they day will come, that is for Chancellor Merkel

to decide. Do you have a contingency plan in Germany for

bandaid. I want you to tell me whether Germany has a contingency

plan? We have worked out several scenarios for contingency on the

European level. This is the famous European financial support facility.

It is now under ratification in the 17 national parliaments of the

state of the eurozone. It was ratified in Germany on 29th

September. This will give us new instruments in order to buy

secondary market papers from neighbouring states in order to

provide credit lines for States in need in order to take urgency

measures were needed. All these new instruments have to be ready as

soon as possible. What if agreed default comes about before they are

ready? Do you have a contingency for that? I have refused to

speculate about agreed to a fault. This is what I am doing on all

channels and in all interviews. is a real danger. We have to be

very responsible. When we talk and when we talk openly, about the

possible theoretical the fault of Greece, then we will risk

accelerating the process better for Trips so you have got a plan but

you cannot tell us about it. have adopted a urging sake measures.

-- emergency. This has been discussed in the German parliament.

Stability mechanisms as well. All of these mechanisms... When a

global investors says the eurozone must take measures to protect banks

and deposit and stop contagion to the sovereign debt of all other

states, your answer is that you're already working on it? Exactly.

This is the answer. We have made enormous progress over the last 15

months. From the beginning, there was nothing in the toolbox. Today,

we have a number of instruments. Perhaps you remember in mid- August,

when Italy and Spain came under pressure, then we could use some of

these instruments and will be managed to avoid problems and this

is what we should have in mind all the time, or we have to avoid a

domino effect so, side-effects, we have to do our utmost to deal with

the crisis in a responsible way. what you are trying to avoid, as I

understand, is a situation where Greece defaults before you have got

everything in your toolbox that you need so that you can avoid

destabilising Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain, you can avoid

destabilising banks who called Greek government bonds, you can

avoid a run on Greek bans spreading throughout Europe. -- banks. That

would avoid another credit crunch which would bring about another

global recession. If the worst does happen, we would have to be

prepared to avoid all of these effects. There is still a

reasonable chance to avoid the worst. This is what we are trying

to achieve. We have a couple of weeks towards that and I would

certainly not recommend to give up before we have tried everything we

can do to avoid the worst case scenario. It is outside the scope

of our possibilities, then, of course, we have to be prepared and

this is what the political leadership has to provide, for the

sake of Europe and for the sake of the Western world. What about

looking to kill Greece instead of demanding punitive austerity from

Greece. --? Say, it is a global slowdown, they cannot move at that

speed, it is politically unsustainable so what about

something different? This has been voiced by the CEO of Alliance, a

global financial services agency. He said the problem could not be

stopped and they will need money, and industrialise --

industrialisation plan. I agree wholeheartedly. It cannot be

rescued by austerity measures alone. Certainly, these measures have to

be applied. But, in addition to that, we need a kind of support

initiative for Greece. We have to stimulate economic growth. This has

to be done, not in the first place by money, Greece was not able to

use all of the money from the structural funds made available for

Greece, they could only use 35 or 40 % because the structures did not

exist to use it, and, therefore, we have to reform the domestic

structures increase. We are prepared to give assistance to our

Creek friends and, in doing this, we have a huge experience from

privatisation in Germany over the last 20 years. -- Greek. This is

what we have to do. In Greece, most of the professions are regulated.

What about giving them a direct aid and what about boosting demand in

northern Europe, particularly Germany, to help them grow their

way out of this crisis? All of these ideas are under

examination in Germany, France, other countries as well. We are

prepared to look this way over the next couple of months. I repeat, we

need a strong signal from Greece that Greece itself is determined

and decided to undergo reform. about the question of the political

mood at home? Do you have the luxury of a couple of months to do

all this? You are doing what the German public increasingly does not

support. The evidence is their 4th in the opinion polls and at the

polls themselves. You are losing elections. Another defeat for the

CDU in regional elections. As far as last Sunday is concerned, we

have increased our vote by 2.5 %. It was certainly not enough to

govern Berlin. The political leadership in a moment of crisis

should not look at opinion polls, should not like at popular support,

we have got to do what we think is important to do in order to

reassure markets and that order to help Greece and overcoming that the

crisis. How can you say that? You are a parliamentarian who is

supposed to be representing your public. Cricket you say that you

are not supposed to listen to opinion polls? -- how can you say?

75 % disapproved in a recent opinion poll. 55 % said a bail-out

should never be used again, even if that was a question of eurozone

survival. Or you seeing do not listen to your public? -- are you

saying? We do what we have to do. We have to do would be judged to be

important and write in a moment of crisis. When the eurozone was

introduced, a large number of German people were against the idea

of the euro but we have done it as part of political leadership in

Germany and the result or the last 10 years was brilliant and grade.

The German economy has benefited enormously from the euro. So have

all the other countries concerned as well, for almost 10 years. It

means that now, again, we have to decide together... When you say we,

who is the way? You have a coalition where there are many

different voices. We spoke about the leader of the FDP, CSU, the

other partners, they do not like this policy and their growing more

Euro-sceptic. Do you have an effective be any more in your

coalition? -- we. That is an important point. As Chief of, I am

convinced that we will produce our own majority in parliament. -- as a

chief whip. I expect the backing of about 90 % of all MPs in Germany

for the European arrangements that are essential. They will take place

on 29th September. That is the crucial date in Germany. There is a

strong and broad consensus in Germany and that could help us

enormously. A consensus between parliamentarians but not

necessarily the public. Chancellor Merkel has said if the euro fails,

Europe fails. Some Germans are beginning to ask if it would not be

best for Germany itself to leave the euro. These are public debates.

Public debates are normal in a democratic country. According to

the polls, the number of German people -- a number of German people

might say it could be better to leave the euro. Economic figures

tell us a completely different story. The euro is in the economic

interests of Germany. We have got a tradition of a cross-party

consensus on basic European decisions. I am optimistic that we

can maintain this consensus and more than that. We will have to

discuss the ideas. You are optimistic. We shall see that there

you are right. Thank you for joining us on HARDtalk. -- whether

We have some rain on the way today. It is moving its way southwards

across the UK. Either side of the weather front, quite a bit of nice

weather to be found. If you get stuck under the weather front, you

will see quite a significant spell of rain and a pretty wet day. Here

is the front. A little bit of uncertainty as to exactly where the

weather front will come to lie during Tuesday. Currently we think

it will bring rain through the north-east of England and into East

Anglia. It will fall into the Midlands, the southern half of

Wales and, later in the day, into England. Cloud initially and a warm

start to the day. Further north, clearer, Brighton's conditions. --

brighter. Some scattered showers for the north-west of Scotland.

Outbreaks of rain across Lincolnshire and the Midlands. Much

brighter skies across northern England. A mixture of sunny spells

and some scattered but sharper showers. Feeling fresher here as

well. Temperatures are 15 or 16. 16 degrees in Belfast with a lot if

brightness. North Wales should brighten up during the second half

of the day. Further south, the rain will linger on and gradually extend

into the south-west of England. For some of our hills, we could be

looking at 20, 30, maybe even 40 mm of rain before we are through with

this weather front. A cool afternoon in the south of England.

That is because of a fund across the Midlands. Temperatures in Kent

hitting the low 20s. The front will move on overnight into Wednesday.

Clear conditions behind it but then another weather system moving into

the west of the UK. As soon as we get rid of one front, we pull in

another. Some wet and windy weather, particularly for Scotland and

Northern Ireland. We should get rid of that front in the east of

England on Wednesday. It will feel cooler for Northern Ireland and

Scotland, particularly thanks to the wind and also with some heavier,

more persistent rain at times across Scotland to the middle of

the week. It will feel cooler for Northern Ireland and Scotland,

particularly start to the wind and some more persistent showers. --