On the Road in Egypt. Part One - The Army HARDtalk


On the Road in Egypt. Part One - The Army

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tasks. Those are the latest headlines. Now

:00:04.:00:14.
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Square. People power topples Hosni Mubarak, now it has turned on

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Egypt's military rulers. HARDtalk is on the road in a country

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preparing for elections but Central Cairo, once again a

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crucible for confrontation. In the last few days democracy activists

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and each of's security forces have been fighting running battles in

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and around Tahrir Square -- Egypt. These processes have lost trust in

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each of's military rulers -- these protesters. Some are calling for a

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secondary revolution to bring down the generals. This is no overnight

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storm. Tension and anger have been brewing for months. Field Marshal

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Hussein Tantawi has been each year's military ruler since

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President were Barak was toppled. He promised stability, but has

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delivered bloodshed -- President Hosni Mubarak. Protesters say he

:01:47.:01:57.
:01:57.:02:00.

must go. October 9th was a turning point in the course of each year's

:02:00.:02:04.

revolution. Thousands of demonstrators, mostly Coptic

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Christians, gathered outside the state TV building, protesting about

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a spate of sectarian attacks. The response was brutal. Protestors

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were hit by sniper fire and armoured vehicles which careered

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down the streets. 27 demonstrators were killed. The forces of

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oppression and made their mark. It is almost as though Egypt is

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reliving the momentous days of January. Last Friday the square was

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filled with is a mess and secular protesters demanding an end to

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military rule -- is the mist. -- is the mist.

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The internet is stoking up fervour. Wed designer -- this wear designer

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is part of a network committed to confronting what he sees as a

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military counter-revolution -- wear designer. -- -- where the designer.

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In your opinion, had the revolution happened or is it yet to happen?

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The revolution is just getting started. Why do you sound so

:03:27.:03:37.

cautious? When we toured the streets in January it was we wanted

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to completely destroy the regime. We did not want someone else he

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would keep the same policies and keep killing people. That is why we

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need to continue. We have just done minimal before. To what extent do

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you feel yourself to be a marked man in Egypt? Going through

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military trials and spending a couple of days in prison and having

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a sentence puts on a makes it seem like me -- like I am more a marked

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man than other people. If you run into trouble again you will go

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inside. Yes. But let's be frank. Almost every revolutionary Egyptian

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has that risk. Just because you are in the wrong place at the wrong

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:04:45.:04:47.

time, if you are not happy, then they do not need any excuse. What

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does that mean? You were arrested in May after a demonstration and

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went through the military process. What did you learn? You get the

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welcome message as they call its in military prison. We were in our

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cells. They were running out of cells. We were in ourselves one

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night and we saw a new group being welcomed. -- our selves. They were

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being strip search. -- hour cells. They were being tortured and

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humiliated right in front of us. But I am getting at the

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psychological relationship between the military and people like you,

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who regard themselves as revolutionaries. Is there a sense

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of hatred between you and then? is difficult to generalise. I can

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sell you the Military Council is wary of revolutionary Egyptians in

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general -- I can tell you. Some are against the military is, some are

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just against the leaders. I am against the entity because it is

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completely corrupt. I can tell you there are tens of thousands who

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take the streets every day knowing there is a hanging risk. We do that

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because we think that is the best for everyone. How representative

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are you? You sip before me, Westernised, university educated,

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spend some time in the US, sounding American and Egyptian, there is a

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charge against some of the Cancer revolutionaries as they are not

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connected to the mass of Egyptian people -- canter. Many people on

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Twitter Seer get carried away. They think they represent the majority

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went they are in fact just on social networks. That is true.

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were part of that closed elite circle of revolutionaries? I find

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myself in that atmosphere, if you will. I try to remain on the ground

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as much as possible, to not lose a sense of reality and think they are

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Twitter that represent Egypt. Our best weapon is the numbers. We are

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a lot of people. By now we seem like a minority but the military is

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committing more and more Arrows. We may not have weapons or

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Shakespeare's but we have -- experience but we have numbers --

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more errors. Egyptians have lost their fear of speaking out but

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criticising the generals can have dire consequences. I drove this

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essential cover to meet the media revolutionaries determined to

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challenge the red lines imposed by the military. 25 TV is a new

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network, named after the day the revolution started in January.

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Almost all the staff are young people plucked from the Tahrir

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Square demonstrations. They say they are trying to wean Egyptians

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offered a diet of state propaganda. Armed troops raided the studio and

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presenters screamed. It became a YouTube sensation. This lady is one

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of the best-known journalists and quit TV when the revolution began

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because of censorship. Then a new managers persuaded her to return,

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promising an end to all interference. Credible or not?

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Welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. much genuine freedom does the media

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in Egypt have today? Very little. I'm afraid to say there has been a

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regression in Freedom's since the revolution. We thought things would

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be different. At the beginning there was a ray of light because

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new channels, new television channels, were being lodged. New

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publications were out. -- being launched. It was becoming a more

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vibrant media. Us all our hopes were dashed when the Minister of

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Information said, no more permits for new channels, the emergency law

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has been revitalised. That allows for arrests of civilians without

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charge, including journalists. There has been a lot of

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intimidation. Many of my friends were summoned by the military

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prosecutor for investigation. I have received warnings about some

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of my stories. What I am seeing is that we have gone back. I am

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puzzled by your decision making. You quit as the youth revolution

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unfolded in January and quit. You said you felt liberated after a

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year's of hypocrisy. Yet you are now working again? Y? I went two

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months after the uprisings because I adore this was the new Egypt.

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Hopefully, you can only push for reforms as an insider. Eyes thought

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he was a national duty to go back and try to push the boundaries of

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freedom -- I thought. Only by doing a weekly programme I have a control

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over the content. Do you really have control? So far so good.

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spoke to one senior media executive yesterday in Cairo. He said what

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the Egyptian state media is broadcasting today is a crime

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against the people of Egypt. They seem to be undermined in everything

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that the revolution was supposed to stand. I totally agree with every

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word. That is what they did during the revolution. They gave distorted

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pictures of what was happening. They continue to live to the public.

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They continue to do it today. They used to be Hosni Mubarak. He was

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the red line. Now it is the military. You need the Supreme

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Council of the armed forces? They are the new red light. It is more

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self censure share. People are so scared. They are worried because

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they have lived under oppressive rule for years. They have a built-

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in fear inside them. They continue to practise self-censorship. It is

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difficult to practise the truth when you know the cost can be

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higher. I am not just thinking about your circumstances. There are

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people who have been imprisoned, who are allegedly being abused,

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saying. There is a case of a plodder who wrote things about the

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military. He was sentenced to three years of hard labour -- a blocker.

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He was tried in a military court just for expressing his views on

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Facebook. All he did was right his own views. He said the people in

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the army are not one and he got a three-year jail sentence. I do not

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know how to describe it but I feel so angry when I think about that.

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This is the new Egypt and we thought we would get our freedom

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that we would be able to express our views freely. Thank you for

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being on HARDtalk. Thank you. Condemnation of the current

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military regime is spreading. Alexandra, the judge's second city,

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is a hotbed of political Many Egyptians are unwilling to let

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the army keeps the old order intact. This is a society on age. It is now

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marked by mistrust and a thwarted expectations have changed. Friday

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prayers has just ended and as you can see there are hundreds of

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people around the mosque. It is a real centre of political debate. If

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we look at some of the posters that people had brought to show to the

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public outside the mosque, why are you here today? The revolution must

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be continued. Do you think there is a danger it will not be continued?

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Yes. We have not got a constitution. You do not trust the Supreme

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Council of the Armed Forces? Yes. You believe they are a continuation

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of the Barak? Yes. Unstable, fearful, Egypt is now dangerously

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polarised. I headed towards the narrow streets of Cairo's market.

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Here, traders have seen political turmoil scare of tourists and it

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hobble the economy. A reminder that many Egyptians see the army as the

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Egyptians best guarantee of stability. White you believe that

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the field marshal and his friends really want democracy? Because it

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is too heavy. Hosni Mubarak wasn't a hard situation. Do the Egyptians

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really trust the army? All the people who know the army it is very

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good. The army is beginning to look like it does not really believe in

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democracy? Are you prepared to trust the army? How long do you

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want the military to be in control of this country? Just long enough

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to protect the way of choice. protect the people while they make

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the choice? That's it. And to put us on the way up democracy. We need

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democracy step-by-step. Egypt is on the edge of chaos. Boating is

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supposed to start in parliamentary elections next week. Right now this

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country's path to democracy is littered with obstacles. The ruling

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military council rebuffed requests for an interview. I did meet one

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member of an increasingly beleaguered government.

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Will come to HARDtalk. As a minister in the government you are

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responsible to the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. Ha you

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convinced of their commitments to You say it is clear, if it is so

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Claire then a wire is a state of emergency it still in place in this

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 46 seconds

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country ten months after the Despite the fact we are only days

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away from nationwide parliamentary elections you are telling me that

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as far as you are concerned there is still a sense of emergency it

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A functioning democracy is about more than just voting and going to

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the polls, it is about all the institutions of a civil society.

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Not least the quotes and the judiciary. What we see right now I

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know what -- Egypt are military courts. We see civilian protesters

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being put before military courts and being sent to prison. That is

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That is not right, is it? They are still people going through the

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military courts. We have people on the internet to have been sentenced

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in sight in military court because of things they have written. It is

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The Ministry of Information was one of the symbols of the Hosni Mubarak

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regime. It is a place where censorship took place, where the

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press was manipulated. If you wanted to make a break with the

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past why you continue to sit in your chair as Minister of

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Information? We did not have been better to abandon this concept

:20:58.:21:08.
:21:08.:21:24.

I will quote you some words from someone who as a long presence in

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it Egyptian state and radio. These are her words, not mine. The army

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is in complete control of the media. They have simply replaced Hosni

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Mubarak. They are more intent to If this spirit of change that you

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talk about his journey when, why is it that the boss of a radio and

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television is a senior figure from the old ruling party. Why did you

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I find your answer very difficult to understand. It seems to be quite

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simple. He was a senior figure inside the old ruling party. He

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still sits inside it Euro state TV and radio as the boss. Why not get

:23:09.:23:19.
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I have spoken to many journalists who know you from your previous

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life as a writer and journalist here in Egypt. They say they are

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deeply disappointed that he decided to take a role way you are nothing

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more than a cup that for your Egypt's revolution is claiming it

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new casualties. Ten months ago the armed forces positioned themselves

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