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tasks. Those are the latest headlines. Now | :00:04. | :00:14. | |
:00:14. | :00:34. | ||
Square. People power topples Hosni Mubarak, now it has turned on | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
Egypt's military rulers. HARDtalk is on the road in a country | :00:39. | :00:49. | |
:00:49. | :00:56. | ||
preparing for elections but Central Cairo, once again a | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
crucible for confrontation. In the last few days democracy activists | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
and each of's security forces have been fighting running battles in | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
and around Tahrir Square -- Egypt. These processes have lost trust in | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
each of's military rulers -- these protesters. Some are calling for a | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
secondary revolution to bring down the generals. This is no overnight | :01:21. | :01:31. | |
:01:31. | :01:33. | ||
storm. Tension and anger have been brewing for months. Field Marshal | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
Hussein Tantawi has been each year's military ruler since | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
President were Barak was toppled. He promised stability, but has | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
delivered bloodshed -- President Hosni Mubarak. Protesters say he | :01:47. | :01:57. | |
:01:57. | :02:00. | ||
must go. October 9th was a turning point in the course of each year's | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
revolution. Thousands of demonstrators, mostly Coptic | :02:04. | :02:10. | |
Christians, gathered outside the state TV building, protesting about | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
a spate of sectarian attacks. The response was brutal. Protestors | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
were hit by sniper fire and armoured vehicles which careered | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
down the streets. 27 demonstrators were killed. The forces of | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
oppression and made their mark. It is almost as though Egypt is | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
reliving the momentous days of January. Last Friday the square was | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
filled with is a mess and secular protesters demanding an end to | :02:44. | :02:51. | |
military rule -- is the mist. -- is the mist. | :02:51. | :03:00. | |
The internet is stoking up fervour. Wed designer -- this wear designer | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
is part of a network committed to confronting what he sees as a | :03:04. | :03:14. | |
:03:14. | :03:15. | ||
military counter-revolution -- wear designer. -- -- where the designer. | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
In your opinion, had the revolution happened or is it yet to happen? | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
The revolution is just getting started. Why do you sound so | :03:27. | :03:37. | |
cautious? When we toured the streets in January it was we wanted | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
to completely destroy the regime. We did not want someone else he | :03:42. | :03:51. | |
would keep the same policies and keep killing people. That is why we | :03:51. | :03:58. | |
need to continue. We have just done minimal before. To what extent do | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
you feel yourself to be a marked man in Egypt? Going through | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
military trials and spending a couple of days in prison and having | :04:08. | :04:18. | |
a sentence puts on a makes it seem like me -- like I am more a marked | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
man than other people. If you run into trouble again you will go | :04:23. | :04:31. | |
inside. Yes. But let's be frank. Almost every revolutionary Egyptian | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
has that risk. Just because you are in the wrong place at the wrong | :04:35. | :04:45. | |
:04:45. | :04:47. | ||
time, if you are not happy, then they do not need any excuse. What | :04:47. | :04:53. | |
does that mean? You were arrested in May after a demonstration and | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
went through the military process. What did you learn? You get the | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
welcome message as they call its in military prison. We were in our | :05:03. | :05:10. | |
cells. They were running out of cells. We were in ourselves one | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
night and we saw a new group being welcomed. -- our selves. They were | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
being strip search. -- hour cells. They were being tortured and | :05:22. | :05:29. | |
humiliated right in front of us. But I am getting at the | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
psychological relationship between the military and people like you, | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
who regard themselves as revolutionaries. Is there a sense | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
of hatred between you and then? is difficult to generalise. I can | :05:43. | :05:50. | |
sell you the Military Council is wary of revolutionary Egyptians in | :05:50. | :05:57. | |
general -- I can tell you. Some are against the military is, some are | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
just against the leaders. I am against the entity because it is | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
completely corrupt. I can tell you there are tens of thousands who | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
take the streets every day knowing there is a hanging risk. We do that | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
because we think that is the best for everyone. How representative | :06:17. | :06:23. | |
are you? You sip before me, Westernised, university educated, | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
spend some time in the US, sounding American and Egyptian, there is a | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
charge against some of the Cancer revolutionaries as they are not | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
connected to the mass of Egyptian people -- canter. Many people on | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
Twitter Seer get carried away. They think they represent the majority | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
went they are in fact just on social networks. That is true. | :06:51. | :06:58. | |
were part of that closed elite circle of revolutionaries? I find | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
myself in that atmosphere, if you will. I try to remain on the ground | :07:03. | :07:10. | |
as much as possible, to not lose a sense of reality and think they are | :07:10. | :07:20. | |
:07:20. | :07:21. | ||
Twitter that represent Egypt. Our best weapon is the numbers. We are | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
a lot of people. By now we seem like a minority but the military is | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
committing more and more Arrows. We may not have weapons or | :07:29. | :07:37. | |
Shakespeare's but we have -- experience but we have numbers -- | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
more errors. Egyptians have lost their fear of speaking out but | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
criticising the generals can have dire consequences. I drove this | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
essential cover to meet the media revolutionaries determined to | :07:52. | :08:02. | |
:08:02. | :08:03. | ||
challenge the red lines imposed by the military. 25 TV is a new | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
network, named after the day the revolution started in January. | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
Almost all the staff are young people plucked from the Tahrir | :08:12. | :08:20. | |
Square demonstrations. They say they are trying to wean Egyptians | :08:20. | :08:28. | |
offered a diet of state propaganda. Armed troops raided the studio and | :08:28. | :08:38. | |
:08:38. | :08:42. | ||
presenters screamed. It became a YouTube sensation. This lady is one | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
of the best-known journalists and quit TV when the revolution began | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
because of censorship. Then a new managers persuaded her to return, | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
promising an end to all interference. Credible or not? | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
Welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. much genuine freedom does the media | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
in Egypt have today? Very little. I'm afraid to say there has been a | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
regression in Freedom's since the revolution. We thought things would | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
be different. At the beginning there was a ray of light because | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
new channels, new television channels, were being lodged. New | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
publications were out. -- being launched. It was becoming a more | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
vibrant media. Us all our hopes were dashed when the Minister of | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
Information said, no more permits for new channels, the emergency law | :09:44. | :09:52. | |
has been revitalised. That allows for arrests of civilians without | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
charge, including journalists. There has been a lot of | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
intimidation. Many of my friends were summoned by the military | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
prosecutor for investigation. I have received warnings about some | :10:04. | :10:11. | |
of my stories. What I am seeing is that we have gone back. I am | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
puzzled by your decision making. You quit as the youth revolution | :10:17. | :10:26. | |
unfolded in January and quit. You said you felt liberated after a | :10:26. | :10:34. | |
year's of hypocrisy. Yet you are now working again? Y? I went two | :10:34. | :10:41. | |
months after the uprisings because I adore this was the new Egypt. | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
Hopefully, you can only push for reforms as an insider. Eyes thought | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
he was a national duty to go back and try to push the boundaries of | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
freedom -- I thought. Only by doing a weekly programme I have a control | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
over the content. Do you really have control? So far so good. | :11:03. | :11:10. | |
spoke to one senior media executive yesterday in Cairo. He said what | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
the Egyptian state media is broadcasting today is a crime | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
against the people of Egypt. They seem to be undermined in everything | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
that the revolution was supposed to stand. I totally agree with every | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
word. That is what they did during the revolution. They gave distorted | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
pictures of what was happening. They continue to live to the public. | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
They continue to do it today. They used to be Hosni Mubarak. He was | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
the red line. Now it is the military. You need the Supreme | :11:45. | :11:53. | |
Council of the armed forces? They are the new red light. It is more | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
self censure share. People are so scared. They are worried because | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
they have lived under oppressive rule for years. They have a built- | :12:03. | :12:10. | |
in fear inside them. They continue to practise self-censorship. It is | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
difficult to practise the truth when you know the cost can be | :12:13. | :12:19. | |
higher. I am not just thinking about your circumstances. There are | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
people who have been imprisoned, who are allegedly being abused, | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
saying. There is a case of a plodder who wrote things about the | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
military. He was sentenced to three years of hard labour -- a blocker. | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
He was tried in a military court just for expressing his views on | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
Facebook. All he did was right his own views. He said the people in | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
the army are not one and he got a three-year jail sentence. I do not | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
know how to describe it but I feel so angry when I think about that. | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
This is the new Egypt and we thought we would get our freedom | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
that we would be able to express our views freely. Thank you for | :13:07. | :13:15. | |
being on HARDtalk. Thank you. Condemnation of the current | :13:15. | :13:22. | |
military regime is spreading. Alexandra, the judge's second city, | :13:22. | :13:32. | |
:13:32. | :14:09. | ||
is a hotbed of political Many Egyptians are unwilling to let | :14:09. | :14:16. | |
the army keeps the old order intact. This is a society on age. It is now | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
marked by mistrust and a thwarted expectations have changed. Friday | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
prayers has just ended and as you can see there are hundreds of | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
people around the mosque. It is a real centre of political debate. If | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
we look at some of the posters that people had brought to show to the | :14:36. | :14:43. | |
public outside the mosque, why are you here today? The revolution must | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
be continued. Do you think there is a danger it will not be continued? | :14:49. | :14:59. | |
:14:59. | :15:01. | ||
Yes. We have not got a constitution. You do not trust the Supreme | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
Council of the Armed Forces? Yes. You believe they are a continuation | :15:06. | :15:16. | |
:15:16. | :15:17. | ||
of the Barak? Yes. Unstable, fearful, Egypt is now dangerously | :15:17. | :15:24. | |
polarised. I headed towards the narrow streets of Cairo's market. | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
Here, traders have seen political turmoil scare of tourists and it | :15:28. | :15:38. | |
:15:38. | :15:39. | ||
hobble the economy. A reminder that many Egyptians see the army as the | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
Egyptians best guarantee of stability. White you believe that | :15:43. | :15:53. | |
:15:53. | :15:56. | ||
the field marshal and his friends really want democracy? Because it | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
is too heavy. Hosni Mubarak wasn't a hard situation. Do the Egyptians | :16:03. | :16:12. | |
really trust the army? All the people who know the army it is very | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
good. The army is beginning to look like it does not really believe in | :16:16. | :16:25. | |
democracy? Are you prepared to trust the army? How long do you | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
want the military to be in control of this country? Just long enough | :16:29. | :16:37. | |
to protect the way of choice. protect the people while they make | :16:37. | :16:45. | |
the choice? That's it. And to put us on the way up democracy. We need | :16:45. | :16:51. | |
democracy step-by-step. Egypt is on the edge of chaos. Boating is | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
supposed to start in parliamentary elections next week. Right now this | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
country's path to democracy is littered with obstacles. The ruling | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
military council rebuffed requests for an interview. I did meet one | :17:08. | :17:15. | |
member of an increasingly beleaguered government. | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
Will come to HARDtalk. As a minister in the government you are | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
responsible to the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. Ha you | :17:26. | :17:36. | |
:17:36. | :17:48. | ||
convinced of their commitments to You say it is clear, if it is so | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
Claire then a wire is a state of emergency it still in place in this | :17:54. | :18:04. | |
:18:04. | :18:04. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 46 seconds | :18:04. | :18:51. | |
country ten months after the Despite the fact we are only days | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
away from nationwide parliamentary elections you are telling me that | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
as far as you are concerned there is still a sense of emergency it | :18:58. | :19:08. | |
:19:08. | :19:28. | ||
A functioning democracy is about more than just voting and going to | :19:28. | :19:34. | |
the polls, it is about all the institutions of a civil society. | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
Not least the quotes and the judiciary. What we see right now I | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
know what -- Egypt are military courts. We see civilian protesters | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
being put before military courts and being sent to prison. That is | :19:48. | :19:58. | |
:19:58. | :20:15. | ||
That is not right, is it? They are still people going through the | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
military courts. We have people on the internet to have been sentenced | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
in sight in military court because of things they have written. It is | :20:24. | :20:34. | |
:20:34. | :20:41. | ||
The Ministry of Information was one of the symbols of the Hosni Mubarak | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
regime. It is a place where censorship took place, where the | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
press was manipulated. If you wanted to make a break with the | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
past why you continue to sit in your chair as Minister of | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
Information? We did not have been better to abandon this concept | :20:58. | :21:08. | |
:21:08. | :21:24. | ||
I will quote you some words from someone who as a long presence in | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
it Egyptian state and radio. These are her words, not mine. The army | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
is in complete control of the media. They have simply replaced Hosni | :21:34. | :21:44. | |
:21:44. | :22:03. | ||
Mubarak. They are more intent to If this spirit of change that you | :22:03. | :22:11. | |
talk about his journey when, why is it that the boss of a radio and | :22:11. | :22:18. | |
television is a senior figure from the old ruling party. Why did you | :22:18. | :22:28. | |
:22:28. | :22:56. | ||
I find your answer very difficult to understand. It seems to be quite | :22:56. | :23:03. | |
simple. He was a senior figure inside the old ruling party. He | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
still sits inside it Euro state TV and radio as the boss. Why not get | :23:09. | :23:19. | |
:23:19. | :23:25. | ||
I have spoken to many journalists who know you from your previous | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
life as a writer and journalist here in Egypt. They say they are | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
deeply disappointed that he decided to take a role way you are nothing | :23:33. | :23:43. | |
:23:43. | :24:22. | ||
more than a cup that for your Egypt's revolution is claiming it | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
new casualties. Ten months ago the armed forces positioned themselves | :24:29. | :24:33. |