HARDtalk on the Road in Egypt Part 3 - Coptic Christians HARDtalk

That's it from a fine now. It is time for HARDtalk. -- from me for

now. Egypt back in political chaos, the protesters in Tahrir Square are

calling it a second revolution. It is aimed at the military, they are

accused of defrauding the will of the people. Who are the people?

Egypt's revolution has exposed fault-lines within a population of

18 million. One in ten Egyptians is Christian. In an era of deep

uncertainty just how safe are Egypt's Coptic Christians? Egypt is

one of the cradles of Christianity. The word Coptic is derived from the

word Egypt itself. We find villages where Christians and Muslims have

lived side-by-side for centuries. Not always in harmony. This is home

to more than 3,000 people, one in ten Christian. This is the church.

It has been ruined as is the end of September when it was attacked by

an angry mob. The reason? They were building a larger and better church

on the side of their old one. Some local Muslims saw that as a direct

challenge to the restrictive laws imposed on Christian communities

for the last 60 years. Under the watchful gaze of government

intelligence agents I went to meet the Christian owner on the land on

which the church stood. I asked him People had accepted the church for

many years, you say that you had services here and no-one bothered

you, suddenly the church was When this big crowd came into the

village and started attacking the What affect has it had on you and

your wife and your children? How has it affected your family and

your Christian neighbours in the As a result of the attack on the

Church it has found itself under national scrutiny. Why had Muslims

reacted so furiously. Why had a local politicians look eager to

cover the incident up? This local Muslim cleric gave me his side of

the story. Let me ask you why? Why was the church, just 200 yards from

here, why was it destroyed at the You say there was no church to

start with, but of course there was a church. I have seen the church.

Now it is destroyed. Are you prepared to say that you are sorry

To be clear about it, you are saying very never was any attack by

Muslims on the church and on Christians in this village? It

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My overriding impression on leaving this village is of suspicion and

mistrust. The Christians accused the Muslims of lying about the

destruction of their church. Who is telling the truth? Frankly, it is

impossible to say. Having been tailed by the Egyptian security

forces throughout our visit here, I can be sure that they do not want

us to dig too deep. On 9th October thousands of Coptic Christians

marched to the state television building in Cairo to protest about

the destruction of the Church and the official response. We have

obtained a graphic amateur video to show what happen next. The unarmed

crowd was attacked. Several demonstrators were hit by sniper

fire. In the mayhem, armoured vehicles carried down the street,

crashing and chilling more protesters. -- crushing and killing.

The injured and the dead were taken to nearby buildings. Some of the

video footage is too disturbing to broadcast. 27 protesters, almost

all of them Christians, were killed. On state television just metres

from the violence, presenters suggested that cops were launching

a violent attack on Egypt's armed The reporting on state TV has been

condemned by a human rights groups as dangerously inflammatory. Why

did it happen? A question for the minister of information in an

interview before the Cabinet Are you aware that in the hours

following the violence on the streets, Egypt's soldiers and

intelligence officers were ransacking the buildings looking

for Coptic Christians, demanding to see identification and arresting

and obtain in anyone who was questioned. Are you aware of that?

I have spoken to witnesses who told me that happened. They were just a

But you are the Minister of Information, it amazes me that you

know see it -- so little about an incident that was so damaging to

the government, your government, you appear to be very poorly

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Human Rights Watch has called for the government in response to

rising sectarian tensions in recent months, to launch a full-scale

investigation of the legitimate grievances of Coptic Christians in

this country. Are you saying that By now it is sensitive in Egypt,

but the world is watching Egypt right now. We have had a report on

religious freedom from the United States, saying since the January

revolution there have been new dangers for minorities living in

Egypt. I am asking whether the government is prepared to

acknowledge there is a problem and Nobody outside of a jet is allowed

to have an opinion of how Thank you for being on HARDtalk.

Thank you. The haunting image of one of the Coptic Christians shot

in the head on October 9th. This was a 20-year-old. A democracy

activist and Tahrir Square veteran who had already been injured twice

during the January revolution. In death he has become a symbol of the

struggle for a new Egypt. This is where he lived. In this Cairo

suburb where an established Christian community co-exists with

His family have let his bedroom exactly what it was on the day he

was killed. On the wall, loving notes from his sister's. On the

desk, his battered computer on which he organised campaigns and

pressures. His older sister, Mary, raced him. He was as much sun as

brother. I know he had been wounded in degenerate revolution. Why did

he feel it was so important to keep up the protest? -- January

Mary, it is quite a few days since you learned of his death. What kind

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of impact has it had on you and the He cot you Orthodox Church does not

welcome publicity or controversy. - - the Coptic Orthodox Church. For

decades, church leaders have shown loyalty to Egypt's government and

military. But is it time to end the stoic silence? We were invited to

this monastery on the southern outskirts of Cairo for rape rare

interview with the bishop. Bishop, will come to HARDtalk. The question

is, when you look outside this monastery and at what is happening

to Christians from the south to the north of your country, really, how

would you describe the atmosphere that ordinary Coptic Christians are

facing today? TRANSLATION: People feel there is not enough pace for

Christians all was loans. Some Muslims have no tolerance. There

are Islamic parties for example he clearly based their politics on

their Muslim religious beliefs. Is that making it more difficult for

the Christian one -- minority? encourage how Christian people and

the Muslims to go to vote. Because if everybody is active in voting

there may be good and moderate and wise people will be given

responsibility. They will help the community and the country will be

an Pays. What do you say to the family of the young man, the young

Christian man, who was killed protesting against the disruption

of a Christian church? He was killed in Cairo by the security

forces. I have spoken to his family. They say they do not feel safe

anymore in this country. What you say to them? I say to them, but he

is a martyr. -- that he is. But how many martyrs must do be? We have a

culture of martyrdom nowadays. Especially the people who work in

the church. They feel it is a blessing gifted I got. Since the

January revolution, Coptic Christians have been the victims of

a spate of violent attacks. There is a real possibility that if next

week's harlot Benchley election if it goes ahead will give a dominant

voice to Sharia law. How should the Christian minority respond? I

turned to this billionaire businessman, Coptic and outspoken

secularist. He is funding a new party. It is being a problem of the

cockpit people. They are not involved in the political arena. I

consider myself, all my friends are Muslims, I was raised and Emerson

house, I hardly had any Christian friends and I am completely

integrated in my community. That is why I am popular. I am not breaking.

But I am the most popular Christopher Munnion Muslims.

Because I am not closed, I participate. I preserve my rights

as an addiction. I do not differentiate between Muslims and

Christians. 96% of the employees in my companies are more sommes.

why do you think there is this closed mentality about Christians?

Somehow people Risley - may perceive our religion as week. We

give the other cheek. I do not do that. I work by the jury saying, an

eye for an eye. If somebody Barnes My Lai, I break their legs stop

what it is is it for you to say that because you are so powerful. I

was not when I started. But you are now. Wife and the same guy the

cockpit people should be more proactive. They should -- in the

cockpit person who does not pursue any blame himself. Because then he

is giving his vote to the other camp. 10 million votes can make a

big difference. If they are up Liberals they should but for the

Liberals. In the past, I have spent a lot of time in Iraq, and I saw

Iraqi Christians giving up on the country. Many were killed. Many

were discriminated against. Many decided they had no future in the

country and if they could bow left. Is there a possibility that many of

the Coptic people who are able to move will leave? Sure. If you look

at the percentage of immigrants every year going to Canada or the

nine states, they now must be Christians. Many of them are

terrified. I went to the cathedral the day this massacre happened.

People were asking whether I should go. It is a very serious issues

stop to be blunt, do you think your community has a long-term future in

Egypt? It is a country. I am going nowhere it is our country. Whoever

things they will scare us of has to kill or be 10 million. Thank you

very much for being on hard will. - Mark -- hard top. Egypt had a

Church has long before it had moths. Christians here have a proud and

ancient heritage, but what future do there have? -- Hard Talk. Out on