Claudia Cardinale - Actress HARDtalk

without being paid. Those are the headlines. That's it from me for

now. It is time for HARDtalk. HARDtalk is in the heart of

London's West End for a special interview with one of the great

enduring stars of European cinema, Claudia Cardinale. She was a

favourite of the renowned Italian directors Fellini and Visconti.

After half a century of screen performances, her new work is still

winning critical acclaim. Her passion for acting is undimmed, but

what about her feelings for the movie business? Claudia Cardinale,

welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. have a fascinating background. You

were born and raised in Tunisia by parents who were Italian, you spent

your early years speaking and thinking in French. Absolutely.

When people ask you where are you from, what do you say? I have three

places. My family, three generations in Tunisia from the

first war. The origin is the island of women. Tunisia is the place

where I am born. Do you speak Arabic? My father speaks very well.

Did you ever learn Arabic? school we learnt English, not

Arabic. Italian passport. I wonder, we are going to talk about your

career, you have worked all over the world with all sorts of

different actors and directors and languages, I wonder whether the

openers you have to that sort of international career, did that come

from your background? -- openness. When I was very young I wanted to

explore the world. It was my dream. When they asked me to do cinema, I

refused for a long time. The more I said no, the more they insisted. It

is like with boys. If you say yes immediately, they go away. Where

did that come from? You did not go to drama school, you had no formal

training. What was it that people saw in you? First of all, I was

only fighting with boys. I was a boy. I was terrible. One French

director came to my school to ask me to do cinema. I did not look at

him, I went away. He disappeared. His first movie was a documentary.

It was in Arabic. The second one was Omar Sharif. Then we had a very

important thing for the Italian Embassy, I was helping my mother

with my sister. It was the election of the most beautiful girl, Italian

Girl in Tunisia. I did not present myself. A beauty contest. Someone

arrived, he grabs me, he put me on the stage. You won the first fries?

Yes, by accident. Then you were invited to Italy? Yes, I was in

bikini. We had the paparazzi... Is was the first bikini. What amazes

me, from that chance experience of getting into this a beauty contest

by accident, ending up in Italy, within two years of that you were

working with two of Italy's greatest ever directors, you were

part of the golden age of Italian cinema, it happened so quickly?

is incredible. I signed a contract with a very important producer. In

Venice a lot of producers asked me to do cinema. I did not want to. I

came back to Tunisia, in the newspaper it was written the girl

refused to do cinema. After a long time I came back and I decided to

do it. I was doing four movies a year. It was with all the big

actors. The big actors and the big directors. Visconti and Fellini...

6 c3 it was a golden year for you, you were working with Fellini, two

of Italy's greatest directors and movies. I did four movies with them.

Visconti was a very demanding director, we know that. Like

theatre. It was very controlled. No spontaneity. He wanted everything

just so. You were in your early 20s with no acting training, were you

intimidated? He was fantastic with me. I do not know why, he always

said, she looks like a cat but she is a tiger. Tell me about Fellini.

I cannot help thinking about the way Italy yesterday, Fellini was

making movies about the beauty and the decadence of Italy. He said

this, there is this tragic fascination of watching a boat go

down and taking an entire epoch with it. When you look back at that

period of brilliant movies and brilliant directors, does it seem

like the end of something? It was realism... This was the top for

Italy at this time. The funny thing is, Fellini and Visconti were the

two opposite. Fellini had no script. He was talking to me and I was

answering. It was not written. just filmed whatever came out

naturally? Absolutely. Can you imagine... Is was fantastic. With

Visconti it was impossible to speak and to smile. Nothing, silence.

With Fellini, everyone had a telephone and was speaking. A sort

of chaos? Yes, because if it was silent you could not create.

Sticking to this point of what has happened, both to the Italian movie

industry, the country as a whole, we have just seen Berlusconi

resigned in a cure it where it Italy is struggling with political

and economic chaos, do you see something of a Fellini's message,

it is stuck with its old glories and cannot live up to them any

more? -- Berlusconi resigned recently. From Italy, you went for

a time in America. People in Hollywood saw your movies, they

wanted you to come and some of them want it to sign you up to contracts

to be a studio star. Why did you say no? Because... I was living in

the House of Paul Newman. Can you imagine? With Paul Newman in it or

not? He was not. He was with his wife in another place. I have been

very lucky. I have a lot of friends. Steve McQueen was always coming to

Rome to try the Ferrari. He was always coming to my house. They

asked me to sign the contract, but I refused. You did some successful

Hollywood movies, you did the first Pink Panther movie. You did the

professionals. I was the only woman there. I was the only woman

surrounded by men. Here is the thing, it seems to me that you were

on the very brink of being one of the very biggest stars in Hollywood,

but you did not grasp that opportunity? Is that because you

did not like the way Hollywood works? It was because everything

was very strict. I wanted to be independent and free. Of course I

did many movies there as well. But I wanted to live in Europe. Your

work, you were seen as a very strong-minded independent woman, I

just wonder whether you felt there was a danger of being a beautiful

woman actor, of being typecast for your sexuality and nothing else?

Packaged in what sense? Some of your contemporaries, I'm thinking

of Brigitte Bardot, Sophia Loren, they are thought of as the sex

symbols. I wonder whether you wanted to deliberately walked away

from that? Yes, I always refused to do scenes naked. Always. They asked

me many times. I said no, I do not want to sell my body. I want to be

judged on the acting. How much pressure did you come under? Many

times they asked me. I remember the professionals. There was one scene,

Burt Lancaster was supposed to take me, he wanted me naked. I said no.

I went to the studios of universal, I told them myself. I said to

Richard, I do not want to. I never Do you think you made some enemies

in the business because of that? I don't thindon't thin, I remember

when I did a movie with Brigitte Ba Baas very funny. It was

the blonde against the brunette. Have you shooting the movie in

Spain. -- we were shooting. All the paparazzi were following us around.

It was 1971, there was a sense that you two were in a way, rivals for

being the number one European actress. Did you get a you get a

wa wavalry and jealousy? at all. For me, thank you actors I

love are Marlon Brando and the Duke -- Brigitte Bardot. He became

friends? Absolutely. We never had problems. Thing for a moment about

the top actoe top actoy, particularly women actors. We have

talked about some of the pressures women face in the business. What

would you say to them today? Do you think it is hard todayhard today

your sense of self- and identity? Yes, it is harder. First of all, at

the time, cinema was a dream. Now it is not. Of violence, special-

effects. It is not the reality. Some scenes are fake, they're not

real. I like the dream. You seem to have fallen out with the business

to a certain extent. Is that true? That is why I am working with very

young directors. I do not care about money. It is important to

help young directors. I have been doing what serve first movies.

Let's talk about the sorts of movies you are making in a minute,

but you have raised an interesting point. You have deliberately

decided to work on small-budget films, international films. Is

th th of you, your ego, which misses the big budgets, the

Box Office, the whole spectacle Hollywood? I don't care! Honestly?

Not even a part of that looks at the Oscars every year and at...

Well, I have presented the Oscars. The only problem is now, 53 years,

they invite me all over the world and I'm always travelling. The

marvellous thing is the letters that I receive from all over the

world. Fantastic. Let's talk about some of your more recent movies.

You are in London because there is a London Turkish film best ball.

You made a very interesting movie in which you play an Italian widow

who takes a young Turkish man as a lodger. The funny thing is that the

director translated the film into Italian. All the Turkish had to

speak Italian. But it was fantastic. The funny thing is, in front of the

character's house is written, "Men and dogs are not admitted. Oh --

admitted" because when she was very young, her husband went with

another woman. And from there that moment, she did not want to see

another man! But just to be clear, that is not you? No, I never got

married anyway. Talking about this may be allows me to draw out a

bigger theme because it seems in quite a few of your recent movies,

you have worked as part of a collaboration between Muslim

artists and Western actors and artists. For the last decade, there

has been a debate about whether Muslim cultures are compatible with

the values that we see in Western art forms. What your experience,

what do you think? First of all, if you remember Lawrence of Arabia, in

the desert, it was fantastic. I like to work there. I did a film

three years ago which was incredible about homosexuality.

is set in Tunisia or? The thing is, the day before shooting, the

Minister came around and said, no. It is impossible to direct. Because

of the sensitive subject and themes? Exactly. A lot of better

dealt with sexuality, a young man coming back to Tunisia from

France... Exactly. We were supposed to go to Tunisia the day after. The

minister asked if I was there, and the director said yes. And he said

okay, you can do the movie. Because you are Tunisian! That movie caused

a big stir because of the themes, a gay young man, a lesbian character.

It seemed like everybody involved in that movie was really asking

some serious questions about how much artistic freedom you could

have. In a country like Tunisia. Also because there it is time do.

It does not exist. Thank you boys were always looking after -- the

two boys were always looking after women. The scenes were very hard. I

had to concentrate because otherwise I was laughing. He had to

keep in mind that these guys were not gay. It is interesting that you

have this Tunisian experience because Tunisia is where the Arab

Spring began at this year. I am sure you have been thinking about

this. Where do you think it has taken at your home and country?

was the start of the revolution. For independence to be free, and to

have worked because it was difficult to find work, I think it

is... And recreating in Paris a committee about Tunisia, I think

this is important. When you say to be free, it raises a question about

what kind of freedom it will be. The dominant political party is an

Islamist party. They said they would do the democratic thing at.

And respect women's rights. Do you believe them? I hope so. What do

you think? I hope so otherwise there will be another revolution.

He signed up to the UN to be a campaigner for women's rights?

I am wondering how far you are prepared to push it? I have been a

part of UNESCO for 15 years and I'm fighting for independence for women.

Do you have much leverage? When you go to these countries, do these

people listen to you? Yes, they love me. Morocco, Algeria, all the

people from Africa last May because I was born there. -- at the -- the

people from Africa love me. lists of movies you have made his

incredible. How many is it now? Around 120. 120! Are there any

places or directors you have not worked with that she would like to?

I believe in destiny. It is written. I have been very lucky because the

last film, which shut in a place that was one -- very ancient. -- we

were shooting in a place that was ancient. The energy is still there?