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And now it is time for HARDtalk. HARDtalk has come to a fitter in | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
the West End to meet one of America's most respected actors, | :00:13. | :00:23. | |
James Earl Jones -- a theatre. His is an extraordinary story. Born | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
into rural poverty in Mississippi in the era of segregation. He has | :00:28. | :00:34. | |
be be an Oscar for a last time of cinematic achievement. | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
These days, black American success on stage and screen is not unusual, | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
but how hard has the journey been and has America really left the | :00:43. | :00:53. | |
:00:53. | :01:04. | ||
James Earl Jones, welcome to HARDtalk. Welcome to our theatre. | :01:04. | :01:11. | |
Thank you. This bitter, where four weeks you have been treading the | :01:11. | :01:21. | |
:01:21. | :01:21. | ||
boards, -- This theatre -- in the play Driving Miss Daisy. I wonder | :01:21. | :01:27. | |
ays to get up for the rehearsing and | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
preparation, all the g all the g physical endurance you have to have | :01:31. | :01:39. | |
for eight daily play. Everybody works. -- a day the play. Even the | :01:39. | :01:47. | |
President and Prime Minister works. Then we sleep. It is not hard to | :01:48. | :01:56. | |
work with this play. It is not hard to work with Vanessa Redgrave. | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
wonder whether this play resonates with you because it is said in the | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
south, in Atalanta, during the era of segregation. You were born and | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
raised in Mississippi during the era of segregation. Does this | :02:11. | :02:18. | |
particularly have meaning for you? Yes. I can say honestly I know a | :02:18. | :02:25. | |
lot about it. I wish others knew about it. That is why it is | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
important to do place like this. Luckily we have a play here which | :02:30. | :02:38. | |
is not about polemics. It does not want to change your mind, it's | :02:38. | :02:48. | |
simply wants to touch your heart. I want you to experience the | :02:48. | :02:58. | |
:02:58. | :02:58. | ||
characters. The society is there. through everrough evert happened in | :02:58. | :03:06. | |
that world. What strikes me about this play is that in the | :03:06. | :03:12. | |
relationship between these two people, and this play is about a | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
relationship between a black chauffeur, and his boss who is a | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
widow Jewish Women, in the Deep South, and they are both getting on | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
a life, and their relationship was a false and it ends up becoming a | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
trusting and loving relationship, despite all the crouching us and | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
grumpiness. The black man in the play has great virtues. He is | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
dignified and respectful, and respected. In many ways, it is some | :03:41. | :03:48. | |
are too many parts you have played in your career. Would you agree? | :03:48. | :03:58. | |
hope so. Some people cannot handle someone being that accommodating to | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
other people, who are not accommodating to them. You mean as | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
a black man he should have been angrier? That is the perception | :04:09. | :04:19. | |
nowadays -- you should have been angrier. That is for people who are | :04:19. | :04:26. | |
black, or who have less advantage. It is there for everybody. For all | :04:26. | :04:33. | |
kinds of reasons. We all have anger. This is what I am interested in. We | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
are talking about fiction but I want to bring it to your own life. | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
When you were growing up in that particular era in the United States | :04:40. | :04:46. | |
of America, was there not a lot of anger in you? I will tell you about | :04:46. | :04:54. | |
three instances. I was raised by a racist grandmother. She was part | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
Cherokee and part black. But she was the most racist person I have | :04:59. | :05:06. | |
ever known. She trained us that way. She considered it defensive racism, | :05:06. | :05:14. | |
but it is still racism. She hated black people and injuring people | :05:14. | :05:24. | |
:05:24. | :05:24. | ||
for allowing me to happen. -- Indian. It is like taking arsenic | :05:24. | :05:31. | |
to cure whatever it is supposed to cure. When I got to school, in | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
Michigan, I had to sort it out. She gave me my first need for | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
independent thinking. I went to school with white kids and Indian | :05:43. | :05:53. | |
:05:53. | :05:57. | ||
kids. They were not the devil she said they were. I can now live in | :05:57. | :06:06. | |
the shoes of a racist. I know exactly what they are feeling. I | :06:06. | :06:16. | |
know what they are going through. It is no surprise to me. Also, on | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
our farm in Mississippi before we move to Michigan, we had a wagon. | :06:22. | :06:32. | |
:06:32. | :06:35. | ||
Most kids do. We took good care of that wagon. We got into the wagon | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
one day and it was all chewed up. The white people had used the wagon | :06:42. | :06:49. | |
to cut wood up. It was all destroyed. We could not chastise | :06:49. | :06:57. | |
them. My father said, no. It was the first time I understood. It was | :06:57. | :07:05. | |
the advantage of being a white kid. If we fast-forward to your early | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
adulthood when you are trying to make it as a young actor, America | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
is going through turbulent times, the late 60s. I am thinking about | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
the civil rights movement. The rise of black power and black leaders | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
who are saying, we will no longer accept the status quo in any shape | :07:25. | :07:32. | |
or form and if necessary will respond with direct action. Were | :07:32. | :07:40. | |
you ever inclined to take that view yourself? I came out of the Army | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
using everything I had been trained to use. I may be thought there | :07:44. | :07:54. | |
:07:54. | :07:55. | ||
would be a race war. But it was all folly. Malcolm X never visited the | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
South but I had. Martin Luther King was a man of the South. I did not | :08:01. | :08:08. | |
even trust him. You did not trust King? No. He was a preacher. There | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
were preachers and my family. I do not trust a preacher. -- in my | :08:14. | :08:23. | |
family. Even today, I do not listen carefully to them. So you did not | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
sympathise with Malcolm X and did not trust Martin Luther King but | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
surely the message from Martin Luther King resonated with you? The | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
message for black people not to take their just deserts from | :08:37. | :08:47. | |
:08:47. | :08:47. | ||
society. Once I understood the footsteps of my had my Gandhi, I | :08:47. | :08:57. | |
:08:57. | :08:59. | ||
said yes, he is the right leader -- Mahatma. It was not well designed | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
folly. It was not well designed activism. I decided I did not want | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
of any part of that. To bring it back to your career, many people | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
will remember poor performances in The Great White Hope, when he | :09:13. | :09:23. | |
:09:23. | :09:25. | ||
played the black boxer -- will remember performances. They may | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
also think of the television series Roots. He played the role of a man | :09:31. | :09:39. | |
going to West Africa to find his own ancestors -- he played. These | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
are roles full of dignity and Admiral's Well qualities but not | :09:45. | :09:54. | |
full of the anger. -- admirable. Racial consciousness is good. You | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
should understand your people and your culture. But to be conceded | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
about it, that is where the danger is. -- to be cacique. The young | :10:04. | :10:12. | |
people pushing this up, it becomes can seat. That is misplaced ago. | :10:13. | :10:21. | |
more recent times, I am thinking of Spike Lee, he has been very | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
critical of the movie Driving Miss Daisy and said it had a very | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
conservative and sentimental view of what happened to black people in | :10:29. | :10:36. | |
the 20th century. Do you understand why he is coming from? Yes I do. | :10:36. | :10:44. | |
where he is coming from. I am playing with two other black people | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
in the theatre. They both refrain from using polemics. They choose to | :10:51. | :10:58. | |
give you the character's experience. I do not expect to change anybody's | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
mind because you cannot. I expect to change their hearts. If you give | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
them the character's experience fully, and honestly, they will feel. | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
The audience will sit here and feel it. That is a fascinating insight. | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
Do you believe that you have managed to change some people's | :11:18. | :11:26. | |
lights? I cannot tell. -- lives. If I can get through to their feelings, | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
that is what the play is about. Comedies and tragedies. If I can | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
get through one night. There are different ways of addressing the | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
same thing, of trying to get the trip out to audiences. Let me quote | :11:41. | :11:47. | |
you something that a black intellectual said of Sydney party, | :11:47. | :11:57. | |
:11:57. | :12:06. | ||
in 1969. -- --Sidney Poitier. He said there is no sense in been a $1 | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
million a shoeshine boy. I just wonder when you hear people say | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
that sort of thing about this actor, whether you worried that some | :12:14. | :12:21. | |
people might say that about your roles? I think that is distorted | :12:21. | :12:30. | |
poetry. I do not understand that comment. Whoever he is. Sydney, I | :12:30. | :12:40. | |
:12:40. | :12:43. | ||
would more compare, to a cowboy. John Wayne? No. He was not a cowboy. | :12:43. | :12:53. | |
:12:53. | :12:55. | ||
Which cowboy do you mean? You will not fall safely... Who is that guy? | :12:55. | :13:05. | |
:13:05. | :13:09. | ||
The good guy of roads. That is The good guy of roads. That is | :13:09. | :13:18. | |
The good guy of roads. That is Sydney also -- roads. -- Rose. He | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
was here for the images that he put up for people. That is the only | :13:24. | :13:34. | |
:13:34. | :13:34. | ||
thing that defines her. Do you think that will continue to define | :13:34. | :13:44. | |
:13:44. | :13:46. | ||
the roles that black people play? The actor should have won the Oscar | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
for playing the original man in Driving Miss Daisy. And he also | :13:52. | :14:02. | |
:14:02. | :14:09. | ||
played a penned one time. He was so scary. -- a pain. But -- a pimp. | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
What we see today, from black actors, I am thinking of Will Smith | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
and Denzel Washington, taking a good guys, bad guys, ambiguous | :14:19. | :14:27. | |
roles, and I wonder whether some of the questions you had to face from | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
people through this prison of being a black actor, whether that has | :14:31. | :14:39. | |
gone now? I never paid attention to it anyway. I just pay attention to | :14:39. | :14:48. | |
Am thinking about the America you have lived in and the | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
transformation we had seen. It is ironic that he played a black | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
president in the 70s and here we are more than three decades later | :14:56. | :15:02. | |
end it is no longer fiction. Does that say you do something profound | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
has changed - has been delivered for the African-American | :15:06. | :15:12. | |
population? It surprised us. I understand enterprise due in | :15:12. | :15:19. | |
Britain as well. That America was capable of collecting Barack Obama. | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
I remember I was in my brother-in- law's house and it looked like it | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
was going to go either way. I did not want to sit through that, so my | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
wife and I went home. When we turn the television and later, Barack | :15:34. | :15:44. | |
:15:44. | :15:44. | ||
Obama had won. I was ready to accept it either way. I do sense | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
some disappointment in use since. You have said things like, we | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
thought we got the hero into the White House and we thought we had | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
done our job, but maybe we celebrated too early. I do not know | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
what we thought, but I know be did not react to that fact. The fact | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
was, a door was opened and they should have been a flood of energy | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
through that door. It should have heightened our behaviour and our | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
experience. You have the same amount of crime going on in the | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
streets and the same amount of lethargy going on in homes and | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
schools. That shocked me, because with that kind of door open, it | :16:27. | :16:34. | |
should have created in energy that went rewarded what he represented. | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
It was not him, it was asked that one that presidency. It was our job | :16:41. | :16:47. | |
to make hay from it. Why hasn't that happened then? Because we do | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
not know how to maintain it. The idea of setting up a hero and | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
vetting in delayed is still pretty strong. For a guy who has won Tony | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
wants and has had an honorary Oscar, you were never pressure about -- | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
pressures about your career. You are happy to do commercials, radios, | :17:09. | :17:17. | |
screen performances. It is called acting. Yes, I am a journeyman. | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
say that, but many others would not. You go through a period where you | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
would have to prove yourself. You cannot do it without being an | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
apprentice first. You go out there and you learn how to build it up. | :17:35. | :17:43. | |
You start as a stage carpenter. You get out there and you work your | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
butt off all night to get decent painted, C can go out and get the | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
lead actors to do a show the next night. Do you think the discipline | :17:53. | :18:00. | |
of acting and the art of acting has been skewed by the money and the | :18:00. | :18:07. | |
glamour that particularly resides in movies? I wonder when people are | :18:07. | :18:15. | |
going to start occupying the movie studios over distorted racial | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
salaries. It is ridiculous. I would not turn it down, because it is | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
money. If somebody wants to dump millions of dollars into my pocket, | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
I would not say no. But it is ridiculous. What job of work is | :18:31. | :18:41. | |
worth more than $1 million? Would job in the world? Is taking's job | :18:41. | :18:48. | |
worth more than $1 million? No. interested in that train of thought | :18:48. | :18:55. | |
that Hollywood and everything that he can offer is sucking up so much | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
of the interest and talent. It is very complex, because it is not | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
just the act of. It is also be the agents. There is a competition | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
between agents. Once you get bigger salaries, it gets even bigger. What | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
bothers me is the match is below the lead actor, who has to suffer a | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
much smaller salary because the lead is getting more to million | :19:24. | :19:31. | |
dollars. That bothers me. That is worth an occupied movement. | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
thing that strikes me about your career is so many people around the | :19:36. | :19:42. | |
world are not going to identify you buy your face, but your voice. You | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
have lived by your voice. I wonder when you recognise that your voice | :19:48. | :19:57. | |
was a special instrument. I had to find it first. I did not talk from | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
the age of five to 15. We do need? It was too embarrassing and painful. | :20:04. | :20:10. | |
I am a stutter rap. I still am. One reason I am not an activist is | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
because when I get heated, I go haywire. Many people would say your | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
voice carries with it a weight and authority. We have to talk about it, | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
we have to talk about Darth Vader and the fact that so many millions | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
of people associate your voice with that character and that 'Star Wars' | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
trilogy. There is something unique about it. When I began talking | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
again and the teacher in high school he got me talking again said, | :20:43. | :20:50. | |
now that you are talking, you now have a male, had old boys. It | :20:50. | :20:59. | |
happened to be a base and those are rare. The best advice I have for | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
you is do not listen to it. You might fall in love with it yourself | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
and what you do, you're doomed. Because if you listen to it, nobody | :21:08. | :21:16. | |
else will. She wore dinner to be too self-conscious about it? Yes. | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
The worst thing an actor can do is be self-conscious. I wonder if it | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
sticks in your throat, giving the span of luck that you have done, | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
but people come back to Darth Vader? A performance that did not | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
have too many words in it and where you could not be seen. It goes down | :21:35. | :21:45. | |
:21:45. | :21:45. | ||
like butter. I love being a part of that whole myth. Especially when | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
they are kids than they won their posters signed. You cannot say no | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
to that. Did George Lucas have to get you to adapt your voice for | :21:54. | :22:02. | |
that particular role? No. He did that in casting. He wanted to use | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
Orson Welles, but he thought he would be to recognisable. So he | :22:08. | :22:16. | |
chose a starter. I got a job. He did not pay much. If you are in | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
actor, I would have gotten points than staff had been a millionaire. | :22:20. | :22:27. | |
I am happy to have been special effects and that's all I was. | :22:27. | :22:34. | |
is how you are titled Yousuf Raza Gilani that is how I titled myself. | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
When you talk about your career now, you say that you now believe your | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
best baby, your legacy may be, lies in the future, that it is still | :22:43. | :22:51. | |
ahead of you? Yes. What is your dream role? There is a writer out | :22:51. | :22:58. | |
there who has that hedging in the back of his mind and soul. He or | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
she will write it. In the meantime, are you going to stay on the stage? | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
That is my tendency. I would do a little movie. I would do a little | :23:12. | :23:18. | |
part in a movie here and there, but I find it easier to commit to this. | :23:18. | :23:26. | |
I know what is going on here. this way you deal most comfortable? | :23:26. | :23:33. | |
I never feel uncomfortable. I am never nervous. That feeling is | :23:33. | :23:43. | |
:23:43. | :23:43. | ||
something else going on. That adrenalin. I fear heightened. -- | :23:43. | :23:50. | |
field. I would not compare to a poll put, but when you have a good | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
play, it is worth preaching to a congregation. There is something | :23:55. | :24:02. | |
similar about it. Not that I want to be religious at this moment. | :24:02. | :24:10. | |
There is something sacred, to me, about this. I do not like people | :24:10. | :24:16. |