Fawzia Koofi HARDtalk

World which was closed after the phone hacking scandal.

That's a summary of the headlines. Some politicians claim that they

would be willing to die for their beliefs. Fawzia Koofi is an Afghan

politician who says that she expects to be killed. I am resigned

to this fate, she says. She is currently an MP in the Afghan

parliament and has been a popular figure since she was elected in

2005. She has already survived several assassination attempt. What

in that case does she believe she can achieve by running for the

presidency of her country the year Fawzia Koofi, welcome to HARDtalk.

Thank you for having me. Afghanistan really ready for a

female President? Afghanistan needs a change in leadership. The people

of Afghanistan, the progress of part of society, people who believe

they could achieve their goals and wishes through democracy. They have

come to the point that they believe the country needs a change of

leadership. That change of leadership could be a woman because

I think women in the country's history, Afghanistan's history,

have never been involved in fighting and destroying the country.

So they can become the true leaders of the country. There are

challenges. The social structures have always been managed and

controlled by men. The economy of Afghanistan Always and now is in

the hands of an end and the Mafia, so, for a woman, the social

barriers are of course the tradition. The men who have always

been running the country for the past decades and centuries - these

are the challenges. I think it's time for us to come forward and to

explain to the world that Afghanistan is not only a country

that produces terrorism. It has a different face also. You are a

perfect illustration in your life story of some of the difficulties

women face. You almost didn't make it to your second day. You were

left out as a baby on the first day of your life. My life story is just

a small example of the lives of many hundreds of thousands of

Afghan women from the day they are born. The way they are perceived,

discrimination, injustice. Union particular were left out, literally,

to die in the sun. I was not a welcome daughter of my family. Not

many in the family was happy because yet another girl was born,

and my mother in particular, because she suffers with the

problems she has had been her life. She has given life to another baby

girl which could also go through the same life, so she did not want

another girl to suffer like she had suffered. Women's voices have never

been heard. Mine is different because it is a success story.

to this point, but just to establish the hurdles you had to

cross. You say your mother did not want to have a daughter who was

going to suffer as much as she did. She also did not want to face the

anger of your father. You write about he -- how he regularly beat

her. In my book, My memoir, the story of my life, my mother was the

role model for me because she was patient, she was a manager of all

of our lives, her children, but the fact that she faced so much

violence in her life. She was illiterate, not educated even, but

this talk about the strength of Afghan women's lives, that they are

not educated but they are strong. They can demonstrate to their

family and the larger part of their country that they can bring change.

My mother was the sixth wife of my father, so my father already had

other wives when he married my mother. My mother went through so

many difficulties in her life. Being not the only wife of your

husband and being beaten up by your husband and suffering from her life.

She was actually not an ordinary woman. She was an extraordinary

woman and a role-model in demonstrating strength as an Afghan

woman. What is interesting in your book is that you do not reject

complete your father despite the fact that he was brutal towards

your mother. You say, for example, that "Perhaps today I understand

him more than ever because I understand his workload". It sounds

as if you are perhaps trying to find excuses for that level of

violence within your family. Back when I was a child, the beating of

a woman was regarded as, in many families, the sense of protection

and protectiveness from the man towards his wife. But I don't

understand. How can you possibly protect your wife by beating her

up? As protective as you gotta what's your wife, you want her to

stay home. You basically reduce her freedom by giving her love inside

the house. Sometimes this love will go to the extreme and turned the

beatings. That is how the women regard beatings by their husbands

for some that's how my mother tried to explain it to me as a child, the

beatings she received from my father. This was a sign of love and

ownership over my mother. You seem to be trying to bend over backwards

to try to understand that context rather than saying it can never be

tolerated. I don't think it will be tolerated in my generation. I don't

think this will be tolerated by my daughter. This is the kind of

change which has never been reflected in the media from

Afghanistan around the world. This is a perspective change. My mother

regarded violence in the family as a sign of love and protection from

my father, and she always met it with love and a smiling face. I

don't think my daughters thought I would be able to receive that kind

of love. This is a generational change. It is interesting that you

also say that you're dead husband, when you gave birth to your second

daughter, he was very disappointed, very upset with you. At the end of

the day, he was an Afghan man. He wanted me to have... It must have

been hurtful. It was. In Afghan culture, if you don't have a son,

your life is not completed, for many reasons, first because boys

are basically the heritage and the identity, the owner of the family,

and the property owner of the family. It is changing through time.

I think in my daughter's generation it is changing but, even among the

intellectuals, to have a son, that is a sign your life will be

completed. There are still challenges for being a girl, a poor

girl. They are still there. Given that level of sexism that runs

through tradition in Afghanistan as you have portrayed it, how much of

the split did it cause in your family? What ruptures did it cause

when you said back in 2005, "I want to be the Member of Parliament for

this family" when you had a brother who also had political ambitions?

come from a political family. My father was a Member of Parliament.

My father was the first to establish a school in our village

but he never allowed his daughter to go to school, so that level of

tradition exists, and coming from that traditional family, to run for

politics was not easy. I had to win an internal election within our

family, like my brothers and sisters, but luckily I won that

election. And what happened as a result? Did your brothers for give

you? They were not initially happy. They did not believe in a woman's

capacity to represent the family identity to the extent that they

could represent it properly. They were initially opposing the point

Have they come round to accepting the? In a few years' time, they

came to understand that a woman could equally deliver as men could

do that and, in the last election in 2010, they were proud, they were

telling me they were proud to campaign for me. It takes time to

change perspectives. It is not a matter of just campaigning and

changing by awareness but by delivering - that's what I learnt

through the process. By delivering you can affect your own family

members who are in a traditional family and society. You can see how

many challenges women in Afghanistan face, and with all that

they are strong enough to bring changes. Let me take you on to the

changes that have been brought in Afghanistan over the last few years.

In a way, you embodied some of the most dramatic changes, the fact

that I think almost 30% of the Members of Parliament are women, a

higher proportion than even here in Britain. Do you think that,

actually, although we talk a lot about the tremendous problems

Afghanistan has, that it has made big strides in the last few years?

I think that Afghanistan has come a long way, especially when it comes

to the woman's situation, but generally speaking, we started from

scratch, we started from zero in 2001. The history of women

Afghanistan does not go back to the Taliban period only. We did not

start after 2001 only. Women have a long history in Afghanistan the

politics. But we had to start everything from scratch and we have

come a long way till now. There are 30%, as you say, of women in the

Afghanistan the parliament, and some of them managed to get elected

openly without anything other than open competition. This brings me to

the point that some people say Afghanistan is not ready for

democratic institutions. But some women managed to get direct votes

from people. There are women in Afghanistan Society, 40% out of 17

million -- 7 million children in school are girls. But for me the

biggest thing is the change of perspective. My family is a small

example but in other societies - you cannot measure it day by day.

Of course there are challenges. is more than challengers, isn't it?

The European Union ambassador to Afghanistan said that even ten

years after the overthrow of the Taliban women still suffer deprived

conditions deprived of the most basic human rights. In a way

perhaps we are seduced by seeing women MPs such as you but the truth

is that the vast majority of Afghan women live in the most appalling

deprivation. That's right. There was a huge gap between people who

live in the cities and those involved in national institutions

and those people, including women, in rural areas. The women in rural

areas, the poor, still suffer from enormous violence. Just a month ago

there was a famous case of a lady who was brutally tortured by her

husband and family and put in a house prison. The women of

Afghanistan are suffering from different kinds of violence and

there is a shift in politics to Taliban and reconciliation process.

It puts women's lives at more risk because there is no systematic

protection towards women activists who actually are delivering a

healthy activism for changing the situation. I want to talk to you

about the Taliban in a moment and possible attempts to have

reconciliation with them but just in direct terms about the presence

of international troops, which are going to be withdrawn in the next

couple of years, how much do you think that is going to possibly un-

picks some of the progress there has been? Permission came to

Afghanistan in 2001 for two reasons, to fight Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

The second was to help Afghan people to establish democracy. We

will not hold this international community responsible for security

because security for Afghanistan is security for the world. You didn't

come just to help us. It was also on the September 11th attacks. It

is about ending the war in Afghanistan. You also have the

financial crisis in your own country. This in my opinion will

It is very unpopular in that a large part of the world, this

invasion of Afghanistan. Many Americans think that the troops

should withdraw by the end of this year. That is costly for your

people. The security in Afghanistan will impact the whole security of

the world. We do not want to go back to the situation where

Afghanistan is a safe haven for terrorists in the region. There are

similarities with where the Russians wanted to withdraw. It is

exactly what is happening right now. What happened then is that the

whole world abandoned Afghanistan. The Soviet Union collapsed and that

is when the international community abandoned Afghanistan. Then the

Taliban came forward. For give me for interrupting. Isn't the point

that the international community saying it will not abandon

Afghanistan, but in order from the war to come to a conclusion there

has to be a political settlement. The house to the talks with the

whole barn. -- the Taliban. I do not think any one opposes talks. In

the 21st century, the basis of democracy is talks. The point here

is that who are we talking to? From my perspective, there are not just

a single element, they are a national phenomenon. It is at the

middle of wads of different factions and movements. But the key

point is that many people are asking, should the Afghan

government be talking to the Taliban? You are saying, yes it

should. They should be a peaceful solution. The Taliban are not just

the Afghan element. The Afghan people are victims of a regional

power battle. They should be a regional settlement before we go

for an outside settlement. Do you think in the meantime there,

assuming that everyone wants a regional settlement, do you agree

that the current government's approach is that eventually there

should be talks with the toll of Van. -- Taliban. What we gave in

response to the Taliban is more violence. There have been more

killing of Afghanistan leaders. Taliban want to morally control

Afghanistan as well as politically. Hamid Karzai says that the Taliban

want peace. He says there are people like any body else. Why not

try and pursued at? -- pursue that. It should definitely be a political

solution. But it has to be glia, transparent and inclusive. Hamid

Karzai is the main person who initiated the settlement talks.

Three days ago they said they would finally like to tour with the

government. But they face of we want to talk to the United States.

-- basically. It should declare that this should be transparent,

inclusive and questions should be answered. Who are we talking to?

Just to get to Hamid Karzai himself, do you think she is acting in a

Afghanistan's best interests. peace process has to be inclusive.

If we really want to be on us to the peace process, we need to

include everybody. They will come and talk and agree. One issue they

will compromise on and another they will refuse. They can come to some

kind of agreement. Not involving people or letting people what is

going on is going to create more confusion. That is what is

happening. How could a female Afghan President talk to the

Taliban in all honesty? Before talking to the Taliban, the

responsibility of any president of Afghanistan is to deliver a good

government. The problem in that Dagestan is not only Taliban. The

problem is corruption, the rule of law, poverty. I understand that.

need to focus on our homework. asking specifically about your

ambitions. The Taliban tried several times to assassinate you.

Why do you want to put yourself through what to say is a death

sentence of campaigning openly questioned hack if we deliver good

government. Afghanistan is located in a geographically important

location. It is for the leader of the country to make use of the

resources. Instead of focusing on issues we cannot achieve winning to

focus on priorities we can win on. You are still talking in

generalities. I am asking about you personally. You are a mother with

two daughters. You seem to be convinced that in the end the

Taliban for some body will get to you and kill you. Why is at a price

you are willing to pay? There is no guarantee we will live for ever. I

do not have a problem with my objectives. If other people do not

come forward, then we automatically pave the way for the colour bar. --

Taliban. They will take the leadership. You need to believe

that he ended the day that your change will make a small

contribution for the rest of your people. Do you ever played for them

to just leave it all alone? Sometimes. They have been occasions

when there were people fighting with the Taliban. Sometimes they

are proud of my contribution. The fact that I held in the school and

the fact that girls go to the schools is something of a

contribution to them. We need to learn to change. If you really want

to change, move forward. Not only yourself. Some people will move

with you. It is my people who want to follow me. If I stepped down,

what about the people who want to follow the? So no matter how

dangerous it becomes, you want to be leading Afghanistan? Have made