Otis Williams - The Temptations HARDtalk

insists the move would not amount to privatisation. Now it is time

My guest on HARDtalk is a survivor, the sole constant in the life of

one of the East -- the most successful groups in Motown history.

Otis Williams formed the temptations in 1961. Record sales

tell a story of extraordinary success. If rock'n'roll was about

sex and drugs, Motown was all that and more. How has he so --

sidestepped the cocaine addictions, the drink and addiction that killed

other members of his group? Didier ever feel he got his just rewards

and when will he finally decides he Otis Williams, welcome to HARDtalk.

Thank you. I called you a survivor there. Is that how you see

yourself? In so many ways, yeah. I am the results of being with a

group that has gone through a lot of changes, of Sand Downs, and I

have lost original members. I am the sole survivor. -- ups and downs.

Success is not all it is cracked up to be. You are dealing with people

first. I have learned quite a bit and I am still learning. There were

something like 22 vocalists in The Temptations throughout its

existence. What he -- what has it been like when you have lost

original members and move on the new people? One of the things I

always tell people is that I do not look for the talent first. I look

for what is here and here. You can have all the talent in the world

and if you have someone looking to take care of business then you will

ruin the talent. I am looking for the person more than a talent. The

business is certainly still running - we know that - and it has been

running for a long-term. -- a long time. With a look at the early days

- 1956, you were already a big success. We have a bit of footage

here. (SINGS) # You're out of sight, look out baby because here I come...

# That is the trademark sound and the trademark moves. That is five

years after you formed. I do not suppose there was a lot of awful

lot of corporate -- choreography in Halle came to be and how you made

the breakthrough. -- how you came. The choreography I give a note to

Paul Williams. We used to just stand there when we rehearsed but

Paul Mack -- Paul said we needed to merge. -- to move. It gave you a

point of difference, I suppose. Tell me a little bit about what it

was like in Detroit back in 1961, near the very start of Motown. Who

were your heroes? I am from Texas originally and I was raised by both

of my grandparents so I am used to sharing the Mahalia Jacksons, the

Sam Cooks, the harmonies and the blues. The embryonic stages of

rock'n'roll was beginning to happen at that time. I was listening to

the Jackie Wilsons and the Nat King Coles, Roy Hamilton, some of the

early rock'n'roll groups, the Drifters and whatever. When you

came into Detroit, building all the time, a huge city, the Motor City,

was music an opportunity for you to make the grade and get out of a

poorer way of life or were you trying to live the dream? What

inspired me to want to be in showbusiness, I went to a rock and

roll show that came to the Fox theatre and I saw a group called

the can relax. Fox Theatre is the second largest indoor theatre

America. I was mesmerised by these five people performing in front of

5,000 people. Her move from the East Side of the trite to the west

side, which is where, sooner or later I met Berry Gordy. Mr Motown.

I had a group called Otis Williams and the Distance. We had a regional

hit and Berry Gordy was impressed with that. He told me he was

starting his own label and we became disenchanted with the label

we were with an eye called Berry Gordy. -- and I called. This was

before Paul and Eddie joined the group. You moved on and started to

find some success. Then you were rubbing shoulders with Smokey

Robinson, Marvin Gay, Diana Ross, all these big names - what was that

like in Motown? -- Marvin Gaye. We enjoyed being in Motown so much

that we would help clean up at day's end for the next day. We all

used to just come up and hang around. It was a wonderful place to

be. Little did we know that Motown would become the global brand it is

today. Pretty soon it became huge. What allows you to get your name up

in lights, while competing with all those others? One thing I will say

about Berry Gordy is that he always believed in us. When we first

recorded our first record, most companies back then, possibly now,

if you record one or two records and they do not happen, they will

drop you. Smokey Robinson came up with our first hit in 1964. We were

hobnobbing with Smokey Robinson, Berry Gordy, Norman Whitfield. You

have these great names to move around with and you are getting big

hits as well. Were you getting your just rewards, do you think? Were

you getting the money you should have been getting? At the beginning,

it was slow. We had to work up to getting any kind of money. We

started making some money and it was great. It was a slow process,

making the money. Our contract's were something we had to revise. --

our contracts. They were buried gaudy contracts. You were quoted as

saying that you were being shafted and Berry Gordy was holding his

power over you. Is that how you felt? They were not the best

contracts to start with but at the same time we understood that it was

business and we had to work up to getting the best contract. Motown

was the only game in town. Was it difficult to get an idea of what

you were worth or how many records you were selling? We found that

later on when we got an entertainment attorney in the name

of Ed summers. We took our contracts to an attorney in Detroit.

-- ed Summers. It was a seven-year contract and when our seven years

were up, we found ourselves and entertainment attorney and he

upgraded our contract. Was it the naivety of youth and perhaps the

suggestion that Berry Gordy had a monopoly on you? He was the hottest

producer in town so at that time we did not even have regrets in terms

of facing hardship or anything. We just wanted to make hit records

that made money, which we did. I still remember, when we first clear

our debt to Motown, we had a sizable royalty cheque even with

the contracts we were under. Let's look at The Temptations, especially

the formative group. You had some powerful characters there, and

David Ruffin was a huge character. David started out as a solo artist

and he was so enamoured with us that he wanted to give up his solo

career and join us. As David Ruffin and the Tempatations? No, that came

later. David was a character. To remember David, as he came to

Motown to record, he would be jovial and boastful. We saw him

move from that personality to trying to be all of The Temptations.

He was riding on cocaine as well, essentially? You said you were on

the dark side as well, to some extent. How far did he go, you go?

I was no angel. One thing I learned about myself was that I am always

doing better than I was doing. I used to smoke a lot of grass but I

have since stop that. I would watch each one of my guys that was not

bad at the beginning. That was to the detriment of The Temptations.

We let matter what should not have mattered. David Ruffin Succumbed to

cocaine after he left the group. Paul Williams took his own life.

You hired and fired people - did that way on new, perhaps even after

they continued to struggle with their addictions, with their

problems, their depression? Did you feel you could have done more to

help? I always wish I could have done more. We all have decisions in

how we want to live last night life and what path we want to walk. To

see Paul Williams, when we first started out... When we first

started out, we would get together to rehearse and we drank wine and

beer. Paul drank milk. To see a brother come from drinking milk to

sometimes drinking two to three bottles of Cava RCA at day, it was

something to behold. -- bottles of brandy. You were the businessman of

the troupe - wasn't it your job to hold that back and did manage that?

One thing you have to remember is that people will be people

regardless. My friend Melbourne took on many different forms. --

Melvin took on. You can only do what you can do. People will do

what they want to do regardless of what kind of common sense you will

try to lay on them. It was a constant battle because I wanted

the original five of us to stay together because there was a magic

that will never be hat like that They said vet you were the one that

had to swallow hard and follow all those front men and of course you

did. But that decided a cold and dictatorial hand. A don't see

myself as cold and dictatorial. I was a businessman. It may be

mechanical. But me, I am not like that because I care too much about

the others. You are shy man. You look impressive. You have been

doing this for 50 years. David Ruffin once came out with that line.

That was quite painful. That must have hurt you? The did not bother

me. They were coming to see the five of us. Other people used to

tell David Ruffin those things. It did not bother me. We have the

purpose of what we had to do. When we walked out on stage, we saw role

of the people let all to see The Temptations. Not the individuals.

It was all five of us. I continued on. In the early days you're all

stepped out. You stepped out into a segregated audience. You were

caught him that think of the pivotal time of race relationships

and civil rights. Looking back, do you ever wonder that you should not

have gone on to the stage with a segregated audience? What we have

to do was the thing that would help break down barriers. We had a

purpose. Motown came along. They will never be another company like

Motown. We were able to do certain things with the politicians and

they could not do that. We went to university. We came at Burghley. We

were standing on the side watching that stage being set up. We watched

to crowd come in. The seats in the front were sold it to the white

people. They sat down the front and the black people did not move. We

walked out and we checked the microphone. We said, please do not

do this. We came here for everybody, please do not sit where the ticket

does not say to sit. Just come and have some fun. The thing I noticed

is that the black people got up and they moved. They moved to the site.

The white people sat down the front. That was very strong. We did more

than what politicians could do. It was very powerful. But you were not

political activists. Did you feel in any way you talk on any

political roles? Did you go with the flow? Let's be honest, it

worked with those crowds it may work for you from a business point

of view. The music was quite political, that broke down certain

things. We would the lies that through the music. That would bring

people together. We did not have to speak. That was the powerful force

of the music. I'm so bad back at Motown at that crucial time with

that role performing and playing helped break down the barriers and

we did not have to say one word we let the music do the speaking.

sounds like it worked for you as a band and as a group to move with

the times. You changed styles every decade of virtually. Is that the

key to success? Wheat always prided ourselves not to be in a pigeon

hole. As long as it was a great song and produced well and

performed well we would never want to pigeonhole ourselves. I looked

at the track record. We had many albums. Many of them were a

statement. We could say almost anything. We pride ourselves with

diversity. We spread the music through all perversity and

eccentricities. You will up touring the UK. Is this your greatest hits

tour? I never look at it like that. It's just music still being

performed as fresh as it was when it first came out. I look at the

audience and like I said, they are from very young people all the way

it over 80 years old. That's the way music should be. They do not

want to hit all of that music but they want the stuff from the 60s?

They definitely want to hear 'My Girl' and the other famous ones.

The most recent hit was in 1998. They want ticket the cornerstone

songs. You have the situation after 22 vocalists, inevitably there's

plenty of people that can say I was with The Temptations. We have an

example in January, Dennis Edwards was in Baltimore. Does that upset

you? About Dennis? Indie, anyone trying to say they are The

Temptations. He to constant vigil. We always try it to stay on top of

that. My manager and my at Hermes always look for that. They value

The Temptations and they will try to make money from something.

they were actually in The Temptations. That does not give

them the right to take my name and live off that. When I stop to think

about that. I admire Dennis because he told people that he messed up.

Otis always tried to keep the group together and he was the one that Mr.

You are still going. It's been a long journey and it still

absolutely part of your life. How long would you go? I will keep

riding the horse. Does that mean, when you die, The Temptations will

die? We were speaking about that. They were faced with the same

dilemma. My manager and I have spoken about that. It's something

we need to figure out. If you were not there, many people said it

would be just five guys up on stage, but you are the glue that holds it

together. It has been so many up on stage. The group is bigger than the

individual. It's tough for you. The show must go on. The show must go

on and I will try to make sure that it does be done if I am no longer

there. We will work on that. The music and the image will continue.

Even if I'm not there maybe I will retire, but love to be involved and

my manager and I will meet to try to figure at the best way to carry

on the legacy. This is a different world now. People like Justin

Bieber can push. Can there ever be returned to the old days? I don't

think so. I think those days were special days that we all drawstring

from and our memories. What it better of them are? It was not bad.

It was testing but I love it and I would not change the cornerstone.

His it disappointing now? No It is not I am still enjoying it. I have

no regrets other them losing the five original guise. I have no