Browse content similar to Nabeel Rajab - President of the Bahrain Centre for Human Rights. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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A year ago revolution was in the air in the Gulf Kingdom of Bahrain | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
- what about now? After months of violence which killed dozens of | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
protestors, the Bahraini king commissioned an independent inquiry, | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
then he promised to implement sweeping reforms. I speak today to | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
Nabeel Rajab, one of Bahrain's most outspoken human rights activists. | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
Has this strategically vital Gulf monarchy successfully reformed | :00:31. | :00:41. | |
:00:41. | :01:10. | ||
Welcome to HARDtalk. Nice to be here. In other parts of the Arab | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
world we have seen autocratic regimes respond to popular protest | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
with nothing but repression. Has it been different in Bahrain? It is | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
different in that the regime has invited troops from other countries | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
to take part in the crackdown. Mercenaries from Pakistan, Nigeria | :01:30. | :01:37. | |
and Yemen. The only revolution that has received silence from the | :01:37. | :01:47. | |
Western community. The only revolution which has not received | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
coverage in the media due to the complications to the interests in | :01:50. | :02:00. | |
:02:00. | :02:02. | ||
the oil, arms sales and TV stations. They are the differences that you | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
sense, and we can talk about them later. The difference I was | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
alluding to was a different one. We have a ruler in Bahrain who, after | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
months of popular protest, unrest and violence, said he would have an | :02:14. | :02:23. | |
independent enquiry to see how his security forces have handled this. | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
He accepted its findings and promised major change. But he did | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
not keep his promises. He is a king who does not normally keep his | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
promises. He did form an independent commission, according | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
to him. That is not independent. An independent commission should be | :02:41. | :02:48. | |
appointed by the United Nations. They were not from Bahrain. They | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
were independent. The leader had worked on war crimes trials. These | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
individuals worked inside Bahrain finding out what happened and | :02:56. | :03:06. | |
issued a report which was damning of the Bahraini government. When | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
someone accused of carrying out violations himself forms a | :03:08. | :03:18. | |
:03:18. | :03:19. | ||
commission, he is part of the commission. He is behind inviting | :03:19. | :03:26. | |
the Saudi army to come to Bahrain. He is behind the troops committing | :03:26. | :03:33. | |
the violations. Now he forms the commission to find out who is the | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
bad guy. Do you think the commission would say that is the | :03:37. | :03:47. | |
:03:47. | :03:48. | ||
King? Is that responsible? Be responsible people, according to | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
the government, is small policeman. They were ordered from the | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
ministers at the top, from the Prime Minister, members of the | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
ruling family, to commit those crimes. Let's look at the wording | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
of what came out in those independent reports. You suggest it | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
only pins the blame on the bad guys. It actually pointed to systemic | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
problems inside your country. Security forces had used | :04:12. | :04:19. | |
unnecessary force. Beatings, rape, electrocutions and torture were | :04:19. | :04:28. | |
used. These were put inside a report which the King accepted. | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
That is extraordinary, isn't it? The number of people killed after | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
the commission started to work is larger than the number killed | :04:36. | :04:44. | |
before. That shows you there is nothing of compliment mission. | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
Those people are still in their job. The people responsible for the | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
violation, the killings, were awarded better jobs. The man | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
responsible for the national security apparatus has been awarded | :04:55. | :05:03. | |
to be the king's advisor. And to head the Security Council, which is | :05:03. | :05:11. | |
what criminals are being awarded. People are still in their job. | :05:12. | :05:21. | |
:05:22. | :05:22. | ||
Nothing is being done to bring them to justice. It seems you have a | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
choice - the King of Bahrain is promising to learn from what he | :05:26. | :05:36. | |
:05:36. | :05:38. | ||
accepts are terrible abuses from the past. You can either take his | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
word or dismiss him as a liar who cannot and will not ever change, | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
ever deliver reform to your country. It seems you have taken the latter | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
course. You seem determined not to listen. From the Economist magazine | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
after the King had reacted to the independent enquiry - no other Arab | :05:52. | :06:02. | |
:06:02. | :06:02. | ||
leader has voluntarily invited such public scrutiny. It sounds good, it | :06:03. | :06:12. | |
looks good. You'll be so cynical about the man. It seems to me | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
you're suggesting that the only way forward for Bahrain is for the King | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
and his and her family to go. this is the choice of people, then | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
he has to go. I want to put things in context. Do not distance the | :06:25. | :06:35. | |
:06:35. | :06:35. | ||
King from responsibility. The UN were supposed to send a commission. | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
He established a commission to stop the UN from sending an independent | :06:39. | :06:46. | |
commission. This move by the King is to distance himself from | :06:47. | :06:55. | |
responsibility. It is a smart move. But still we welcomed it. Do you | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
accept that it has put you and other opponents of the regime on | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
the back foot. The National Security Agency is no longer given | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
the right to arrest people. Civilian courts reviewing | :07:10. | :07:19. | |
convictions of military courts. Reviews of code of conduct. These | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
are real reforms and the King has promised he is now undertaking | :07:22. | :07:32. | |
:07:32. | :07:35. | ||
change - you are reading an article and I am judging from the practice. | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
The King is known to be a person who does not keep his promises. The | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
commission says that those people in jail now because of their | :07:42. | :07:52. | |
:07:52. | :07:54. | ||
opinions should be released. More than 2000 have been. Now you have | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
something like 600. Leaders of opposition, a human-rights | :07:56. | :08:06. | |
:08:06. | :08:12. | ||
activists, journalists, bloggers, doctors, nurses. The former senior | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
Metropolitan Police chief John Yates, hired by the Bahraini | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
government, said that excellent progress was being made on the | :08:18. | :08:28. | |
:08:28. | :08:33. | ||
security reforms. He is taking part in the crimes committed in Bahrain. | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
He is covering up the crimes and violations committed by the king. | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
Every day people are dying. You are making very serious violations. | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
John Yates is a respected policeman who has gone there to help redress | :08:48. | :08:58. | |
:08:58. | :09:11. | ||
these issues. You go and see his estate. Just covering up the crimes | :09:11. | :09:21. | |
:09:21. | :09:23. | ||
committed by the King. The UN has been saying that we need to reform. | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
He is just covering up the crimes of the King, saying nothing is | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
happening. He becomes another Arab dictator talking from Bahrain. You | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
keep talking about the crimes still being committed by the King's | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
regime. What about your focus on some of the things happening from | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
the other side of the political fence. The evidence of violence | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
being used by village militias that we see in some of the Shia villages. | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
Molotov cocktails are routinely used. Have you publicly condemned | :09:55. | :10:01. | |
them? A principle of the violence. | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
Whether it is used by the government or a protester. I do not | :10:07. | :10:15. | |
think Molotov cocktails will solve any problems. Only now, after a | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
year of the government killing people and the silence of the | :10:18. | :10:25. | |
international community. Now after a year, people have started to use | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
Molotov cocktails. A cleric was recently captured on video saying | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
that demonstrators should crush police if they attempted to abuse | :10:32. | :10:41. | |
women at demonstrations. Do you approve of language like crushing | :10:41. | :10:48. | |
the police? The right of defence is a human right. So you think that | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
when Shia clerics inside your country use this sort of language | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
it is not inflammatory? It is not dangerous? It is not fuelling the | :10:56. | :11:06. | |
:11:06. | :11:06. | ||
flames of violence? You have to put things in the right position. When | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
a security institution hired mercenaries from outside to raid | :11:09. | :11:19. | |
:11:19. | :11:19. | ||
villages. They are not local people. They are brought from outside. | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
Brought it to take part in the crackdown. They have special houses | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
in special cities, isolated from people. From Pakistan, Jordan, | :11:27. | :11:36. | |
Syria, Yemen. Those people raid your house, steal things, attack | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
your daughters, harass them sexually, torture them | :11:38. | :11:48. | |
:11:48. | :11:49. | ||
systematically, arbitrary arrest them. Are you going to defend that? | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
The right of self-defence is a human right. You seem to be | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
ignoring the efforts of Syria to change the way the security forces | :11:57. | :12:07. | |
:12:07. | :12:07. | ||
operate. The police, who are supposed to police the riots, are | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
now told they can conduct interrogations in rooms which have | :12:10. | :12:18. | |
closed circuit TV. A direct result of allegations that in the past | :12:18. | :12:26. | |
they have interrogated under torture. Torturing centres - they | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
used a horse stable and a youth centre as torture centres. They | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
have put cameras in places, but torture is carried out in other | :12:37. | :12:47. | |
:12:47. | :12:47. | ||
places. Cameras do not relate to security institutions. They have | :12:47. | :12:55. | |
been committing torture there. This is not solving the problem. They | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
should interrogate people in one place. The cameras should be there. | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
Not arresting people, taking them for torture and then taking them | :13:02. | :13:12. | |
:13:12. | :13:16. | ||
You're free to travel to the UK, come on a show like HARDtalk and | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
make the most explosive allegations about what is happening inside your | :13:19. | :13:27. | |
country. Does that not point to a government which is not using the | :13:27. | :13:37. | |
:13:37. | :13:37. | ||
same repressive tactics as those we see in Damascus, Libya, Tunisia? | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
Many human-rights defenders were systematically tortured, some were | :13:39. | :13:49. | |
:13:49. | :13:52. | ||
killed. I have been attacked. I have been tortured, kidnapped. My | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
business was burnt. My staff was attacked, my house was attacked. | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
When you say tortured, tortured is year from my house and marched to | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
an unknown place blindfolded, handcuffed, I was tortured and | :14:06. | :14:16. | |
:14:16. | :14:19. | ||
brought back. What form of torture? Anything from sexual harassment to | :14:19. | :14:29. | |
:14:29. | :14:30. | ||
beatings while I'm in the car to kicking, pulling hair, punching. | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
John Yates, whom you have suggested you have no faith in, a former | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
senior officer in the Metropolitan Police, says that allegations like | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
the ones you have just made to me, he believes the only thing to do is | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
to go to the authorities, explain what has happened, and he says he | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
is convinced reforms inside the security forces mean that those | :14:46. | :14:56. | |
:14:56. | :14:59. | ||
allegations will be treated seriously from now on. I have tried | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
this. Witnesses of crimes have gone to the police and have been | :15:03. | :15:12. | |
rejected. I hear a complete disbelief in the current | :15:12. | :15:18. | |
government's commitment to reform. Are you not in danger of missing an | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
opportunity? There is no question that the ruling family in Bahrain | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
is divided. King Hamad is torn between a reform-minded Crown | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
Prince encouraging him to be more progressive and become more of a | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
constitutional monarchy, and a Prime Minister who has been a hard | :15:32. | :15:42. | |
:15:42. | :15:48. | ||
line repressive leader for years. If you chose to go down the path of | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
dialogue, and you could expose those divisions. I am supporting a | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
dialogue. I think this is the only solution for the crisis. I do not | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
think fighting with the army will solve the problem. Nor will | :16:01. | :16:09. | |
depending on foreign power. I believe in dialogue. Why don't you | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
talk to the government? You have said that until all political | :16:13. | :16:21. | |
prisoners are released, you will not talk at all to the government. | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
There is no such offer. There is such an offer. Another human rights | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
activist has already said that he will talk to the government and has | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
participated in the Commission overseeing reform implementation. | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
He says it is better to get 40% of what you want from within the tent | :16:40. | :16:50. | |
:16:50. | :16:53. | ||
then 0% outside. Where is the 40%? The things King Hamad is now | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
committed to. Where is it? The government did not sit with the | :16:58. | :17:08. | |
opposition in dialogue. Wefaq, the main Shia opposition party has said | :17:08. | :17:18. | |
:17:18. | :17:20. | ||
they want to talk. Nobody asked them. Nobody invited them for a | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
dialogue. This is a misleading statement to this news agency and | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
that TV channel. The reality is there is no dialogue. The | :17:29. | :17:39. | |
:17:39. | :17:43. | ||
government does not accept a dialogue. We have not talked about | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
it much but I did ask you about what the demonstrators are doing in | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
some of the villages around Manama. We have to talk about the degree to | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
which this is a sectarian protest movement. There are indications | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
from some sheikhs in the mosques that Shia sectarianism is driving | :17:56. | :18:06. | |
:18:06. | :18:08. | ||
the opposition to the regime. do you categorise it as sectarian? | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
Is it because the majority of the protesters are Shia? Some of the | :18:14. | :18:19. | |
most radical sentiment is being expressed from the Shia mosques. | :18:19. | :18:26. | |
They have a very clear demand. Do you think they're sectarian? | :18:27. | :18:36. | |
course not. If you ask a government that has power, is that sectarian? | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
If you ask a government to respect human rights and laws, is that | :18:39. | :18:46. | |
sectarian? Sectarian is when you see vigilantes patrolling villages, | :18:46. | :18:54. | |
setting up road blocks and they are 100% Shia. It is violence but it is | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
not sectarian. Those people are blocking roads because they are not | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
allowed by the government to protest peacefully. It they were | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
allowed to protest peacefully there would not block roads. Let me ask | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
you about the international reaction to what has happened in | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
Bahrain over the last 15 months. The US, the UK and other Western | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
governments have expressed concern about the violence but have not | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
indicated that they are close to regarding the Bahraini government | :19:21. | :19:31. | |
:19:31. | :19:36. | ||
as illegitimate. The hypocrisy of the Western governments were | :19:36. | :19:43. | |
exposed here in Bahrain. The double standard of their foreign politics | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
has damaged the reputation and image. I do not think what the | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
British and Americans are doing well help their strategic interests. | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
Is there not a chance that the US is ever going to cut its tyres with | :19:59. | :20:09. | |
:20:09. | :20:10. | ||
that dynasty? They will not do that. If I can describe you as a member | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
of the opposition, there is no prospect that you will get any | :20:13. | :20:21. | |
diplomatic support from the powers that matter? When we started we did | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
not count on support from Britain and America. We did not need it. We | :20:25. | :20:35. | |
:20:35. | :20:42. | ||
said having two different policies for a revolution will not serve you. | :20:42. | :20:48. | |
We count on our own people and our own beliefs. You keep using the | :20:48. | :20:55. | |
word revolution. When that word is heard in Washington, given the fact | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
that Saudi Arabia is next door and Iran is over the water, the last | :20:58. | :21:08. | |
:21:08. | :21:09. | ||
thing they want to see is revolution. Then why talk about | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
democracy and human rights? This is hypocrisy. If it happens in Libya | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
and Syria, you support it because you have bad relations with those | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
guys. But when it comes to Bahrain, the last thing you want to see is | :21:20. | :21:28. | |
people fighting for democracy? Fighting for justice? What are you | :21:28. | :21:30. | |
talking about? Don't talk about values and principles in some | :21:30. | :21:40. | |
:21:40. | :21:41. | ||
places while ignoring them in others. But if this is the reality | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
and that is the nature of Bahrain's strategic position, you as an | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
opposition member, surely the most pragmatic in useful thing you can | :21:47. | :21:57. | |
:21:57. | :21:58. | ||
do is find avenues to get to common ground with this regime? We are | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
trying our best. But either we have good relations or, we can't ask the | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
British or Americans to listen to us because we do not have oil to | :22:05. | :22:15. | |
:22:15. | :22:22. | ||
give or arms to buy. Those suppressive dictators have more to | :22:22. | :22:30. | |
offer to those democracies than we do. But in the recent past, the US | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
and UK have continued to supply arms to the Bahraini government. | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
While asking the Russians to stop selling arms to Syria. This is | :22:40. | :22:48. | |
hypocrisy! So what do you want from the West? We want them to respect | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
the values they say that they do. Respect the international standard. | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
To have one policy for every revolution and one policy towards | :22:56. | :23:02. | |
all dictators. Not just those dictators you have a problem with | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
but those dictators you had a good relationship with. Bahrain is to | :23:07. | :23:14. | |
host the Formula One motor racing event in April. Should they not do | :23:14. | :23:22. | |
that? Do you want it stopped? should stop out of respect for the | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
Formula One staff who were systematically tortured. If it is | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
not stopped, and Bernie Ecclestone has given no indication it will be, | :23:30. | :23:38. | |
what will happen? We will use the opportunity to protest. There will | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
be many journalists and we will protest everywhere. You will try | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
and disrupt it? We will not spoil the event but we will get the | :23:46. | :23:53. | |
benefit from it. Many people from outside will be coming in. We will | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
protest. You talk about revolution. Will the monarchy in Bahrain be | :23:59. | :24:05. |