Zoë Wanamaker - Actor HARDtalk

for Democracy party. They want to swear to safeguard, protect rather

than safeguard the constitution. Now it is time for HARDtalk. This

is the Globe Theatre in London. It is a magical recreation of the

place where Shakespeare honed his theatrical genius in the late 16th

century. Over the next six weeks, something remarkable is happening

here. It be one of his 37 plays, each in a different language,

performed by theatre companies from around the world. My guess is the

honorary president of the Globe Theatre, Zoe Wanamaker. It was her

father whose drive and determination led to the building

of this theatre. Today, Shakespeare, the stage and the family's artistic

Zoe Wanamaker, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. You and your family are

so intimately tied to the theatre. Does it feel very special coming

here? Yes, yes it does. It feels unbelievable, actually. Sam, I

suppose I should call him Sam because it is better than Daddy, he

struggled so hard for this. I could never understand why it was such a

struggle but yet he persisted. The tenacity of the man was astounding.

His vision was also astounding. said this after his death, of

course he died before this thing was finally finished, you said "for

25 years of his life, I think he sacrificed himself for what became

an almost impossible quest to get this theatre built." and Arthurian

quest is quite an image. Was it his obsession? Yes. I think it has been

an obsession of his for a very long time. I think he first started in

1948, 49. He could not understand why the Gold was not here. There

was a plaque on the wall. -- Gold. From photographs that I had when he

was young, he was about 18, he was doing shows, cut down Shakespeare

all day. There is a photograph of him standing very proudly doing in

Midsummer Night's Dream. There is a whole list of plays. He was doing

that then. He is a Jewish boy, an American Jewish boy. An American

Jewish boy from Chicago. I do not understand, of what was the

connection to Shakespeare? It is so deep. I think what he was trying to

get this place build, they thought he wanted to build an American

theme park. Yes. Even though the theatrical community that was

around then was the very anti-it, they thought it was going to be

exactly as you say, and there was this snobbery about it. I think

because he was an American and an interloper to some extent, there

was also a feeling that he was rich, because he was an American,

naturally, and he should build it himself. He was asking of the

Committee of Suffolk to do that. He was not only asking for the theatre,

he wanted a kind of a university here. He wanted it to be the world

centre for Shakespeare studies. He had an image of the South Bank

suddenly becoming a place of art, like this then in Paris. He said to

me, "you wait, Suffolk is going to explode. This whole area is going

to take off." And it has. This part of London has completely changed

over the past 20 years. Yes. Here is an intrusive, personal question.

Do you resent as a doctor, alongside your mum Andrews Sisters,

the fact that, to use your idea, but this Arthurian quest took over

his life? I could not understand it. There were a lot of doubters. I

wondered why he was doing this, why he was giving himself such a hard

time. He was completely driven by this complete a belief that it

should happen. He believed they should be a success, an exciting

place. No, I wasn't resentful at all. I think my mother might have

been. It is interesting to reflect when we think about what ultimately

was achieved here and what your father will always be associated

with, it is interesting to reflect that, when he first came to the UK,

and of course he had been a leading actor and director in the US for

some time, when he came here, he and your mother were living under a

huge cloud because they were living in exile. Your dad had been

blacklisted and was being investigated. We now know that he

was under surveillance by British intelligence as well. Were you

aware of any of this? The not at all. Did he talk about it later in

life? Later in life, yes. When after Miller was still alive and we

were doing The Crucible, that was very much about McCarthy, he said

that he had joined the Communist Party. He said they wanted to

support the Soviet Union. This was during the wall as well. Then he

gradually realised as said he wanted to resign from the Communist

Party. -- during the war. That stigma never left. As far as the

story, as far as my mother tells it, he was asked to do a film in

England and that is how he got leave to go because he had to go to

work and mummy put everything in storage, the house in Connecticut,

which he had built, and they put everything in storage and they came

here. Then he was summoned to go before the committee. Neither of

them were in the country so that was not possible. Then his passport

was taken away. There they lived here. It was not a surprise to me

that the Gold happened. -- Globe. Then he started working here. The

Liverpool theatre raised its head and he opened a theatre in

Liverpool which was open 17 hours a day. There was a coffee bar,

restaurant, a little art gallery, shows for kids... De ringing the

theatre to the masses. -- bringing the theatre. It was the first

theatre of its kind in England. I could be wrong about that. He had

West End actresses and actors coming to play in Liverpool. Before

we finished with your father, one last question about this. It seems

to me that this story has unfolded throughout July. Over the last few

years, but you have learned extraordinary things about the

degree of stability was under in this country and the fact that at

one time British intelligence had him on the list so that if there

was ever a war with the Soviet Union, your father was going to be

interned as a suspect, I wonder, as all this has come out, has this

made you feel conflicted about the sense to which you feel the

British? You were born an American but you are British. Has this

change your view at all? No. It has not changed my view. I think the

world has changed since I was growing up. I know my parents loved

being here. They loved being in England. They loved the English.

They felt that it was a happy place to be, even after the war. Also,

when I went back I did a programme called Who Du You Think You Are? It

was an eye-opener. I was standing beside Abraham Lincoln's memorial.

I was looking at that extraordinary Parc and seeing what used to be

marsh land. -- Park. The effort of millions of people that went into

making it. It was a very powerful feeling. I felt very proud to have

that American passport. Went in that strikes me is Richard Dadd,

clearly, was a man of very strong principle and strong belief. -- is

that your dad. He had strong opinions about you. When you

decided to go into acting, it was very much against the advice of

your parents. You said that your father always keep you note that

your performances. You said that when he asked -- when you asked for

them, he was deeply honest and can be very hurtful. You chose a

difficult path for yourself. Yes. Why? Why did you believe that you

had to act, even the your parents said it may be a bad idea for you.

It was something that I really wanted to do. It was something that

I saw in both of them, my mother as well, a passion about. It is a

passionate job. It is a hard job and it is tough. I am fascinated

about this craft. As long as that passion and interest stays with you,

I think there was nothing that they could do. Sitting here particularly,

I get the real sense of her exposing it is. Yes. You are on a

stage, unlike even film and television where if you miss

something upbeat and do it again, on the stage, there is no place to

hide. -- If you fluff something, you can do it again. You get to

rehearse. You get to practise. The wonderful thing about life theatre

is the relationship with the audience and that is exactly what

this theatre gives. You can rehearse for a long time without

the audience but once you get into the theatre, that is when you start

learning again. That is because you're working with a 4th person,

an animal, a beast. That is the excitement and that is the joy.

just wonder whether it is frustrating for you because for

decades she had been at the top of the tree in acting and classical

performances of Shakespeare and Chekhov on all sorts of things but

there are a lot of people who work in popular sitcoms or do cameos in

Harry Potter a Dr Who and reach an audience of tens of millions and

frankly the theatre cannot do that. Is that frustrating? That is a fact.

It is a fact. The medium of film and television is so powerful. You

know, you can be playing Hamlet here to packed houses for a year

and you won't reach the amount of people that you would for one night

on television. It is crazy but it is true. It doesn't, that is the

way it is for all stop you say it is the way it is with the sense of

resignation. -- the way it is. You see it is the way it is with the

sense of resignation. There are things you have not accepted with a

sense of resignation. Things you have addressed with your long role

in one of Britain's popular situation comedies, you had to

fight tooth and nail to get pay that was equal to Robert Lindsay.

You said it was not fair. Women do not get paid as well, do not get

treated as well as men in the the acting profession. It is a big

beer. There are more powerful woman pop singers now than there

everywhere. That is great. That is important. I suppose it is, I think

the next generation will probably You are treading a fine line.

Clearly you care but there is a limited the amount you can do. He

was so political and so determined to play a political party, do you

think you inherited that and do you get angry about things? I do get

angry about things. But I do not have his clarity. I leave it to

those who can to do it. When it comes to some think like,

principles, I do have principles and I stick to them. Here is one

thing, not so much as an actor, but more in your role and the Globe

Theatre as honorary president. The Governor is proposing to change the

way in which donations are treated for tax purposes, making it less

attractive for big donors to give chunks of money to theatres such as

this one. This fit any said because you rely on charitable donations. -

- this theatre. Tell me what your responses to what the government is

doing. There is a Yiddish word for this. It means crazy. It is crazy.

I think in order to try and look smart, this government is cutting

off its nose to spite its face. In America they have it right. There

is a tax break in making charitable donations. There is some sort of

kudos for doing that. And here... There is going to be the Sam

Wanamaker Theatre, an indoor theatre. That is the ambition to

complete it. Yes. Given what has just happened, or what is about to

happen in terms of the change in the tax rules, will it get

finished? If this plan goes through will it get this? Yes, of course.

You have the money? We have some of the Murray. We have �4.5 million.

We need �7 million. It is going to be finished. If I am anything like

my father I will make sure it will get done. Let's talk about what is

going to happen here soon. That reflects a lot of these but you

have talked about, that your father had. There are feared to companies

from all over the world to do Shakespeare in a 37 different

languages for 37 different Shakespeare plays. What is it, with

all your experience, about Shakespeare's that makes him so

ensuring for so many people across the world? -- enduring. I think

Shakespeare understood the human heart better than anyone. I feel

that he is next to God in some ways because of his inside fullness, his

sensitivity, his incredible knowledge of human nature, his

understanding of human nature, their frailties. His jokes still

work, most of them. Did you remember, when you opened this

place, while the Queen opened it but you were invited to be the

first speaker. Yes. You did a prologue. From Henry the fair.

were the opening words? For the news of a fire. I am not going to

go on. It is a perfect speech in the chorus of Henry the Fed. It is

exactly what the Globe Theatre CEO what my father felt about this

place. -- Henry the Fifth. It asks the audience to use their

imagination and to imagine soldiers and kingdoms and kings and queens

and battles, and imagine them. Within this wouldn't Churcher. --

wouldn't it structure. For me that was extremely hard to do. It was

all so exciting. I see the light shining in your eyes as you

remember that. Why have you never know grief to actually perform

here? -- -- why have you never agreed. Too much would be on me.

Too little would be on the work. That is why I have not. I know what

it cost them, but my father and my mother, in energy and frustration -

- both. It is quite moving when I come in here, every time I come in

this building. I feel very emotional. It is an exciting space.

It is a fantastic space. You talk about they motion are connected

with this space. I will ask you one last thing -- they motion. I know

it is difficult. -- the emotion. One thing you have made a point of

speaking about his euthanasia -- is. Your father had a difficult death.

You enjoy sisters have spoken openly about the way you feel that

is wrong and the way you feel the law should allow people the freedom

to help their loved ones to die -- you and your sisters. Do you think

Britain is moving towards that idea of an -- allowing the youth in --

euthanasia. I feel very strongly about it. If somebody does not have

any quality of life, what is the point? I just get emotional about

it. I can speak emotionally about it. My father was told he only had

six months to live. He survived by nearly a year. With that tenacity

of holding on a desperately, because he wanted this place to be

built and he wanted to see it... And then not being allowed to end

his life peacefully, quietly, in his own bed... It does raise the

question if you feel so strongly about it, which you with your

sisters, would you have been prepared to end his life? Yes,

absolutely. Are you sure? Yes. We were prepared. My only problem is

that... Sorry. It was slightly comic. I did not want him to fight

me. He was a strong man. It should not be that the family is put in

this kind of position where it is called murder. We were on the list

of potential murderers. To end, we look around here. Your father's