Abdullahi Alazreg -Sudan's Ambassador to the United Kingdom and Ireland HARDtalk


Abdullahi Alazreg -Sudan's Ambassador to the United Kingdom and Ireland

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Now on BBC News it's time for It geology and religion. Saddam is

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afflicted by conflict. Once the largest and most diverse states in

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Africa, it split into two last year after a civil war killing millions

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and displaced many. Tension continues out southern Sudan with

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its new southern neighbour on the border region. My guest is the

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ambassador to the United Kingdom Abdullahi Alazreg. Is this regime

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Ambassador, welcome. It has been one year since South Sudan became

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independent. Since then, the two sides almost came to war again in

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April. You were forced to vinegars using table by the UN. Talks broke

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down again with no resolution. Are you serious about peace? A course.

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More than serious. We have made peace them and signed the agreement

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to stop this war. We want peace and that's necessary for us for the

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development and all the progress. It's really important. You say

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you're serious but both sides say that. The mediator for the African

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Union says that both sides but trapped in that logic of war. For

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example, you can't agree on where they did militarised zone should be.

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When you say both sides you come here different things. You compare

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the well-established government with an entity that is in the

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process of the making. South Sudan is not a real country. It's not a

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real state. It's a state, a metaphorical state. In southern

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Sudan they are trying to monopolise power. There's a lack of

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bureaucracy and the lack of government administration. It skews

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me, you say it's not a proper country. But you agree that South

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Sudan should hold a referendum on independence and you agreed that it

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should separate if the majority said they wanted that. White to

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that? Don't you trust these people who came to power? You should have

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agreed on the border. We would like peace. That's why we accepted the

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referendum to make it easier. If not for our efforts the referendum

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would, had taken place. Out in you agree to the referendum if you

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cannot agree on the border? It's not our mistake. Its mistake of the

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people controlling the south. They did not come to that meeting. They

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were not responsible people. This is not what I am saying. We were

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unhappy about their behaviour. They do not come to the meetings. The

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people made their sitting with us every now and again are not serious.

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His it is a lot of mud-slinging on both sides. Now the south has

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separated and we Omega Sea At Again and South Sudan points the finger

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at Saddam. -- sedan. It says you are playing games. The African

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Union and the UN had given you three months but you not serious.

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We are serious. South Sudan would not be independent without stars.

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War is not to benefit anybody. do you explain to South Sudan to

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comments about your presidents same they don't understand anything

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except the language of the gun. But those nations have restarted but

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they accuse you of bombing the area. When he said that it was a reaction

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about the occupation. This is a reaction about what happened like a

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stab in the back. It's a reaction to so many bad things. He tried to

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make peace. Excuse me, what kind of peace is this if you continue to

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bomb them? The bombardment is not taking place. It took place during

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the war. And our be you explain on Friday, this Friday, a few days ago,

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the Governor said on TV that the Sudanese army had been targeting

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his region by ear and by ground just a few days ago. He is line. --

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it is alive. He needs to name names. It's not true. They are trying to

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project themselves as innocent lambs surrounded by Sudanese Walkes.

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Are you use saying that Sudan has not attacked from the ground or it

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to South Sudan since the separation? We have attacked during

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the occupation of our land and bombarded their military camps, yes.

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How about t How about this is totally incorrect. We never did

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that. It's just propaganda. South Sudan says you're bombarding and

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attacking. It a threatens to retaliate. They are continuing to

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defend their territory. Do you see the prospect of all out war once

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again? We do not have any desire to occupy any part or any centimetre

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of the south. This is part of the propaganda. We would like peace

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with them. It is in our interest. 80% of their food comes from us.

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It's not good or not right to fight somebody who buys 80% of food from

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us. You say you were interested in peace and not taking territory. Are

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you trying to make them a failed state? Are you trying to make

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trouble in the new country? How about the revenue from the oil, a

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huge area of dispute. Something the African Union and the United

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Nations says you have three months to resolve this dispute. When South

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Sudan was created, you lost 70% of its oil revenue. However you both

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need each other for exporting the oil. You cannot agree on how much

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you will charge to allow the world to come through your territory. You

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are asking $30 each barrel. That's more than anywhere else in the

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world. Nobody is getting anything because they cannot produce oil and

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you are losing on all sides. Why are you creating trouble? We did

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not create these problems. They were irresponsible people. They are

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creating these problems. Name anyone else? This is business. What

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you are suggesting is not that oil pipeline. It's processing units for

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petroleum and refineries. There is a high-cost items. But that is way

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above anyone else. It's a matter for me the association. They should

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suggest a reasonable price and we would allow them to use our

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facilities providing a stop arming the terrorists and groups who are

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attacking our people and killing innocent people. You're talking

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about the militia there. Some people accuse people of arming the

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militia. Both sides, North and South both deny this. It you cannot

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resolve the differences over this territory and the border and the 12

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by August, the UN friends economic sanctions. You cannot afford that.

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You've just lost said the 5% of oil revenue. You cannot afford these

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sanctions. We are resilient and resourceful. Losing Petroleum

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Revenue does not mean the collapse. She surely you need to talk

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constructively. Or we want is peace. Their government in the south has

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closed the oil fields and that is not constructive. They are closing

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their oil wells. Bet concentrate on your economic woes. You rely on oil

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revenue. That not true. International Monetary Fund urges

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Saddam last week to launch an emergency program to overcome your

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economic challenges. It is not 80% sign of our revenue. Oil is only

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20%. We are implementing austerity measures to allow us to overcome

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the problems. What what do the people say? The price would

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increase over 23% next year and 26 % later and you prefer his tax

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hikes. Don't you risk losing public support? The people are very

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understanding. Most of them are politicians. They understand the

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hardship by the loss of the poor oil revenue. They do not like what

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it is doing to the lack of money in their pocket. The newspaper is run

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by a relative of the President and he said the Government is playing

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with fire. That does not necessarily mean it the reality.

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You have had very forceful uprisings. He is is not true. It's

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part of the propaganda from the south. We did not kill anybody. We

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do not kill the people. If it kills people we will lose power. Let's

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look about killing the people inside Sudan with conflict inside

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and outside at near the border regions and on the Nile river. The

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peace deal has left grievances of the people near the border

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unaddressed. They fought with the south in at the civil war and they

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are being punished now because they are being bombed, not just the

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Your reason for the war is because the leader did not accept the

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result of the election, which was free and fair. This is not why am

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saying. This is what Khartoum is saying. This is a fair and honest

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election. He did not accept the result. He resorted to fighting.

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That is the reason behind the war. Are you saying that you are not

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bombing these regions? Which are not bombing our own people.

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According to human rights organisations, you are. A group

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said there was ethnic cleansing of some people. A man is wanted by the

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International Criminal Court in. Four. He was filmed earlier this

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year, saying, do not bring them back alive, we havefor them.

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Firstly, this ethnic cleansing allegation is not true. This is an

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old allegation against Sudan. Let me give you a list -- I am sorry.

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We do not have enough time for that. You are denying it? Yes. Because it

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is not true. A UN co-ordinator has expressed deep concerns about

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Sudan's actions. He also emphasised food shortages in Blue Nile. They

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are people fleeing over the border to eloquent refugee camps in South

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Sudan. A refugee camp was bombed. You are being accused by not just

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South Sudanese but international human rights organisations and the

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UN of treating people the Blue Nile state in an abominable fashion.

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Firstly, an important person said this is not true. I can produce

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their names. A former UN Secretary for political Affairs said that.

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Another UN figure agrees. It is not true. We are talking about bombings

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and attacks. We are talking about blocking humanitarian aid agencies

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from getting to these regions, from. Four and the Blue Nile region. --

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Susan Rice is not a credible personality. We are allowing our

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own to distribute food. Why are you hiring international organisations

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to these areas? Some of them are... A couple of years ago, people were

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shipping arms to the rebel movement. We really have to move on. I would

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like to move to the issue of the internal states that South Sudanese

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inside Sudan. The South Sudanese are considered illegal foreign

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residents. A UN figure said hundreds of thousands of

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southerners are believed to be in Sudan but they did not have the

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funding to move them. What is to happen with the South Sudanese in

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Sudan? We have 30,000 students in South Sudan. They are studying and

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we take care of them. We will not expel them as long as the embassy

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is ready to issue the proper documents for them. They have been

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in Sudan for years and been living like brothers and sisters. Nothing

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has happened to them. The government of Sudan expelled only

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in the last two months 8,700 families from the Saar. Before that,

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the expelled 20,000. They confiscated properties and killed

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them. It is an issue of finger- pointing from both sides. I would

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like to talk about another issue about legitimacy but Omar al-Bashir.

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He was indicted for crimes against humanity in Darfur. A prosecutor is

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asking the Security Council to consider urgent other countries to

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help to arrest him and that even a should be cut off. He is a

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beleaguered President. He is running out of legitimacy, don't

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you think? He is an elected president. I will give him 68% of

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the awards. The ICC prosecutor is not a credible person. The American

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envoy to Sudan said there was no genocide in Sudan. Other people

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agree. The UN said it was one of the worst humanitarian crisis in

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the world, in Darfur. But going back to the ICC, Malawi has taken

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heed. It has asked the African Union but to ask Omar al-Bashir to

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the summit. The summit is not going to be held in Malawi. It may expand

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this. Malawi was made by the Americans -- Malawi was backed by

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the Americans. If they allow the President to attend the Senate --

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the summit, they will deprive them of that money. It is insulting to

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the President of Malawi. The African Union decided to move the

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summit from Malawi to elsewhere because Malawi is at respecting

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even the summit. Let us look at the opposition against MRI inside the

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People are not happy about... Has We had a rogue based government,

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even the leader of the party is all of a sudden part of the government.

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Some other party members a part of this government. They are asking

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for a regime change. They have to go to the ballot box. But the

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President came to power through a free and fair election. 68% of that

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