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It is hoped that any bank will be able to survive for one month, | :00:02. | :00:07. | |
without any help from their government. And now it is time for | :00:07. | :00:17. | |
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My guest today is global fashion icon and Ozwald Boateng. He was the | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
youngest ever and first black designer Ann Taylor a London's | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
prestigious Savile Row. Born to Ghanaian parents, he said his | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
colour was irrelevant to his success and he put it to one side | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
and got on with his career. Too many Africans, he is a role model. | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
Why is he now making more of his African identity by championing | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
investment in business on the Continent and could he have been | :00:45. | :00:55. | |
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Ozwald Boateng, welcome to HARDtalk. Why do you say that je African | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
origin has been a relevant to your success? Mainly because as a | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
designer for my first started, I didn't want my origins to help in | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
any sort of stereotype in terms of my approach to design. What I did | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
was I really focused on the work itself. I took the traditional | :01:43. | :01:50. | |
British sit and I made it modern. That was very unique as a designer. | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
I wanted the focus of that unique design approach to be the focus of | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
the world's attention in terms of design, not me as an individual. | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
What do you mean about not conforming to a stereotype? Do you | :02:04. | :02:10. | |
mean they would have expected bold African patterns? In the design | :02:10. | :02:18. | |
world, as a black man, I was very unique in that way. I didn't want | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
the image of myself to get in front of me as a creator. Did you see | :02:24. | :02:31. | |
your race as a handicap? I would not say a handicap but I was unique | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
within the field. You can be in a field full of men and you can be | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
the first woman. You want the work to speak for you. That is the | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
approach that I took. That is why I always talked about it in that | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
contest. In a recent documentary about due that fall due for a | :02:50. | :02:57. | |
decade or so, a Man's Story, you said you wanted to forget your skin | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
colour and get on with it. You said people did not know what you look | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
like and did not know your name was African. They thought she won a | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
middle-aged white man. Because they thought you were a middle-aged | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
white man, if they had known you were a young black guy, they would | :03:13. | :03:20. | |
have bodgers its. We talk about -- would have bought your suits. When | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
you talk about Savile Row, when I started, I was 18 years old. I was | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
very young. I was working in a very old and established business. I had | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
a very strong point of view and a very unique point of view. I wanted | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
the focus to be about the work itself as opposed to me as an | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
individual. Then people judge you work differently and say "this is | :03:45. | :03:54. | |
not for me." You need to be a different man to earn this. Had you | :03:54. | :04:02. | |
had racist experiences in the past? Savile Row is very much a closed | :04:02. | :04:10. | |
club, it was a bad point. I started by my fabrics at the beginning and | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
a lot of the merchants, they were not easy on me, put it that way. I | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
had to earn my respect with them. Can you think of a specific | :04:20. | :04:27. | |
example? I would not necessarily get good terms in purchasing of my | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
cloth. That made things harder for stub that was consistent. -- I was | :04:33. | :04:40. | |
consistent and I was a respectful of them as merchants. They started | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
to realise that actually I was quite good at what I was doing. I | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
developed a reputation for that from that point. That is why, when | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
you are starting to build the brand, when it opened and Savile Row, I | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
was very clear about me being on the street, one, what I could do | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
for the concept of tailoring globally. I also knew that by just | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
being there and doing a good job, I could maybe affect attitudes around | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
someone like myself being in that field. Can ask you about that? | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
Savile Row, no easy thing to get in that part of London, Piccadilly, it | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
is where the likes of Prince Charles, and fight it think he is | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
one of your clients, Richard Branson, Hollywood stars, they buy | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
assets from you. -- in fact I think he is. Were you not perhaps burying | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
your race and identity deliberately in order to get on fine, arguably, | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
you could have used your success as a vehicle, as a platform to promote | :05:51. | :05:57. | |
better race relations? Promote a different vision of Africa. I think | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
I was doing it anyway. I did not have to announce it. The moment you | :06:02. | :06:10. | |
get into badges as when -- is when you have the opportunity of someone | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
saying, he is a bladder Senna. have the badge of colour anyway. | :06:16. | :06:25. | |
I'd do -- he is a black Taylor. I do. But it was not about that. I | :06:25. | :06:32. | |
did not have that Preston me as an individual. Not only did you not | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
use your success as a base to promote better race relations, you | :06:36. | :06:43. | |
actually actively buried it. some extent. Is that a matter of | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
regret for you? I don't think I buried it. I just did not make the | :06:48. | :06:56. | |
.9. I think by not making it a point, -- I just did not make it | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
the point. I think by not making it a point, by just being good at what | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
I do, that helped to shift the perception of someone like myself | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
being within that industry. Working in the way that I do. You were very | :07:12. | :07:21. | |
successful in the late 80s, Ellen intos. -- Early 90s. I started to | :07:21. | :07:27. | |
build a name. To you know what was going on in Africa at the time? | :07:27. | :07:34. | |
There were a lot of Kus. A lot of images of Africans constantly | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
depicted as starving and waiting for an active Western nation to | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
come and help them out. You could have countered that, kind of. You | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
could have been multi-dimensional, here I am an African, Ozwald | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
Boateng, successful. I did not have that influence. As a designer, | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
either they gathered momentum in people | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
people would argue that there was a very Afro-pessimistic view of the | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
Continent. You could have countered that. Not a bad point. You keep | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
saying that. -- not at that point. Not at that point Machen time. | :08:16. | :08:25. | |
There is something about that. I am more active now. I have been active | :08:25. | :08:35. | |
:08:35. | :08:36. | ||
since 2000, 2003/4. To a very effective change or do anything to | :08:36. | :08:43. | |
change that the, I would have had to be in a position where I could | :08:43. | :08:50. | |
have communication all editions. -- to change Africa. And 2001 or 2002, | :08:50. | :08:58. | |
I met the President of Ghana. I had a conversation with him about | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
development. I did not realise I could have a conversation and he | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
would listen to me. You had this influence Budget did not realise? | :09:07. | :09:15. | |
At the time, I didn't. I was developing as a brand. Developing | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
his unknown individual. More often than not, you don't know how well | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
you're doing. Not until you experience it. You said you | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
awakened to you African identity by that. Why is it that in 2013 you | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
are using African influences for the first time. That is not correct. | :09:37. | :09:44. | |
What it is, I don't sue Scholar within my work. Not ride from the | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
beginning because of -- don't use colourful stop this is the first | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
time you are using an overtly African influence. I am using | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
colour and an African context. Rich colours. I always said I used | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
colour as a tool to make something very traditional look very modern. | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
The way I am combining my collars, it has always had a strong African | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
awareness. -- colours. The can compare your word to Vivienne | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
Westwood or Jean-Paul Gaultier. They had been using African | :10:19. | :10:26. | |
influences for years. You have it as a birthright and you chose not | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
to. At the time, I needed to establish myself as a designer. I | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
did not want to be established as an African designer. I think I am | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
established to such an extent now that any embracing African fabrics | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
and using them in an interesting way is it is no longer just badged | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
as an African designer. It is a designer who is understood who has | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
at the kindreds and this is how he wants to work with that. -- who has | :10:54. | :11:03. | |
African roots. It is like Africa. It is badly marketed. It is great | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
now to see the world starting to realise that Africa has a role. It | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
is not just how much you can donate to it in it. You have said it is | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
now added a's time. When you look at relations between Africa and | :11:20. | :11:27. | |
Western nations, do you believe that now you can help to counter | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
the view that consumer goods are only really desirable if they are | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
made in the West and confirm to Western-style the standards? I see | :11:40. | :11:49. | |
it like this, Africa has, bearing in mind it controls 50 % of all | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
known resources, maybe more, now we have an opportunity for Afrikaner | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
to actually have its own identity in terms what products it creates. | :12:02. | :12:10. | |
-- For Africa a to have. My view of Africa, why you see me more | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
naturally engaged, I think now it is working out its language what it | :12:16. | :12:23. | |
is going to say about itself in terms of production. There is a | :12:23. | :12:29. | |
real interest for companies to set up manufacturing bases in Africa up | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
in a with there was not before. The raw materials were taken out and | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
manufactured elsewhere. Everyone is realising that now is the right | :12:38. | :12:46. | |
time to do that. I have definitely been campaigning and China mac | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
changed that view. The image of -- as trying to change our view. The | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
image of the charity work in Africa has been fantastic. People have | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
done great things but, from a marketing perspective, the images | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
the same. It is kids' staffing and flies. The marketing aspect, it | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
does what is desirable, it is something that is Western. A | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
professor at London University who studied clothing market across | :13:17. | :13:24. | |
Africa told altitude that shoppers make choices based on style rather | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
than sustainability and choose Western clothing because it has | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
parallels with Western culture and matches what they see on TV. Do you | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
believe that you need to inject something different into an African | :13:37. | :13:47. | |
:13:47. | :13:50. | ||
market and say, actually, draw on He seemed many Africans wearing | :13:50. | :13:57. | |
amazing presence even though the fabric is made in Holland. -- you | :13:57. | :14:06. | |
see. They do have an identity. It is about confidence. I have been | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
told, when I am in Africa, they CIM successful. I am known for my | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
designs. I am embracing the fabrics. It is reinforcing a confidence in | :14:18. | :14:24. | |
self. But they are still chasing all those products that are made in | :14:24. | :14:33. | |
the West. But it is just timing. There are still trying to figure | :14:33. | :14:43. | |
:14:43. | :14:43. | ||
out and understand what their new identity means. You see more | :14:43. | :14:50. | |
Africans wanting to go back to Africa, now more than ever. The | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
global crisis has been a great thing for Africa, in one way. It | :14:55. | :15:05. | |
:15:05. | :15:06. | ||
made everybody rethink. I am experiencing it with my own parents. | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
They are selling their property here. They are going back. You are | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
one of three children. Your siblings are also heading back. Are | :15:17. | :15:24. | |
you? I am about Emperor should show development. -- infrastructure | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
development. I would love to see shopping centres. A development of | :15:30. | :15:37. | |
new types of cities. With environmental awareness that are | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
very interestingly designed. The landscape of Africa is so under | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
fire. You can really make it something you dream about all read | :15:46. | :15:55. | |
about inbox. It is possible. talked about the clothing industry | :15:55. | :16:03. | |
and about helping bring investment to the Confederate -- confident. | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
You said Africa could be the new hub for the textile industry | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
worldwide. There are voices that say they do not want the sweatshops | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
they have seen in some parts of Asia. Even if we want to come | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
should be, you have to make sure it is done correctly. Yes. That is | :16:22. | :16:32. | |
true. I agree. You have to start. There is a lot of rationale behind | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
doing this and during bad. We need infrastructure. You cannot go to | :16:37. | :16:44. | |
one country from the next because there is no decent road. This basic | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
infrastructure needs to be dealt with. You set this -- set up this | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
organisation, launched in 2009, to bring innovation and investment to | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
Africa. Focusing on infrastructure. Not had much success. The thing is, | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
like I said, there has been such bad PR on Africa. The men Ysaye | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
Africa and Investment, people talk about governance, corruption, all | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
the issues before you can even talk about the opportunities. You cannot | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
blame them. You were quoted in the Guardian in March this year saying: | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
Corruption in Africa, absolutely nonsense. I think corruption is | :17:31. | :17:38. | |
everywhere. We can look at the financial crisis and talk about | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
corruption. I said it was nonsense because there is too much focus on | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
that. If you build the infrastructure so I can take | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
advantage of my wealth, my assets that sit in the ground, then I had | :17:53. | :18:03. | |
:18:03. | :18:04. | ||
the resources to trade with you. Nobody disagrees. To say the | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
government is corrupt is the reason why we cannot do that, or even | :18:08. | :18:16. | |
start, it does not make sense. There are 54 countries. There has | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
to be a few examples of countries their... If you group all the | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
countries in one, there are a couple of problems in three | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
countries. Where did you get that information from? You know the | :18:32. | :18:41. | |
telecom Sudanese billionaire. Latest figures say state except | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
there has been improvement of governments in Africa in the last | :18:45. | :18:51. | |
couple of years. In many countries, they are going backwards. Like | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
Nigeria of Kenya. Governance is a big issue and there are huge | :18:57. | :19:06. | |
negatives. So we do not invest? So we do not China lift people are a | :19:07. | :19:16. | |
poverty? -- we do not lift a people. You do not say governance is | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
irrelevant. I say let's not have it be the first thing you say. | :19:21. | :19:29. | |
need accountability. Make it transparent. I love that. Don't | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
make it a bad excuse and not to invest. You need the accountability. | :19:34. | :19:42. | |
Do you accept that? 100%. How do you bring it about? You are a big | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
backer of these bonds. Members of the African diaspora can invest in | :19:48. | :19:57. | |
bonds that can be used for infrastructure. When this idea was | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
tried a few years ago in Ethiopia, people said if they do not trust | :20:02. | :20:10. | |
the government as a guarantor. is why the African Development Bank | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
is doing. They have a AAA rating rating. They are dealing with | :20:15. | :20:22. | |
member states of the moment. That is great. It is about involvement. | :20:23. | :20:30. | |
The bonds they are planning to do is $22 million. It is fantastic | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
news for Africa. Many African nations do not have that sort of | :20:35. | :20:43. | |
rating. The 54 African countries have their own reserves. They | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
invest that in bronze on the other side of the globe, close to $1 | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
trillion. They do not invest in their own continent. That makes no | :20:52. | :20:59. | |
sense. As a leading member of the African diaspora, had you invested? | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
Absolutely. Not in the bronze, but in Africa. The the the the us | :21:05. | :21:12. | |
poorer has a real role to play? Absolutely. -- de think the gifts | :21:12. | :21:22. | |
:21:22. | :21:28. | ||
poorer. -- African DS poorer. There is a real opportunity in Ghana and | :21:28. | :21:36. | |
West Africa. There is no tax on goods coming in from Africa and | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
into the US. There is a real incentive to develop manufacturing | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
there. If you do not have to develop a textile company, because | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
you do not know it -- do not have that know how bad is a problem. | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
having the right tax and legal structures in place are people who | :21:54. | :22:03. | |
invest know their money will be safe. They all say security. I saw | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
a statistic on Russia right now. 45 African countries are better in | :22:09. | :22:17. | |
terms of corruption than Russia is. How does that work? D believe that | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
these kind of investments will filter down to those who are the | :22:21. | :22:29. | |
poorest. If you build error road that connects two cities together, | :22:29. | :22:39. | |
:22:39. | :22:44. | ||
100%. You stand for the elite. Your suits. $30,000. Might average price | :22:44. | :22:54. | |
:22:54. | :22:56. | ||
is $2,000. The top? Top price is about $20,000. When you talk about | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
a huge investment opportunities, there are still huge levels of | :23:00. | :23:06. | |
poverty. Does that not strike you as a lot of money to put on your | :23:06. | :23:14. | |
back? I am designing. That is what I do as a luxury brand. Having the | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
African descent is an important message. It does not mean I do not | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
care because I am in the luxury industry. You can reconcile that? | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
care about one thing. I want to see Africa move forward. I want to be | :23:31. | :23:38. | |
in the position where I can open a shop, many shops. It is a very | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
important point. It does not mean because we are African, we cannot | :23:43. | :23:49. |