Ayad Allawi - Former Prime Minister of Iraq HARDtalk

commitments on tax evasion. Welcome to HARDtalk. More than

1,000 people were killed in violence in Iraq last month

according to the UN. What is going wrong there? Is the country's young

democracy collapsing? It appears to be dividing along religious lines,

not helped by its neighbour's Syria descent into civil war. My guess

today was the first leader after Saddam Hussein. His party was part

of the governing coalition. He has now accuse the current Prime

Minister of turning into a dictator. What had now for keeping the peace

I had a lowly, welcome to HARDtalk. A faint you for having me. You had

said that Iraq is slipping back into the clutches of a dangerous

new one-man rule, which inevitably will lead to full dictatorship. Do

think the prime minister is trying to create his own dictatorship?

way he is behaving is leading to a dictatorship in the country. He is

the prime minister. He is the Minister of Defence. He is the

Minister of the interior. He is the head of the intelligence. His the

Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. He listens to nobody. He

does not have any respect to what he has signed on the issue of

power-sharing. This kind of behaviour could lead to a full-

blown dictatorship. And you are suggesting he is intent on doing

that? Yes, definitely.He was elected by the people twice of you

-- he was elected twice by the people of Iraq. He has popular

support. The last time he was not elected. Unfortunately Iran had an

attitude, declaring that it was unacceptable for me or anyone else

to lead the government. They emphasised the issue of forming a

new coalition, which then elected him again. A coalition that you

signed up to at the time. I wonder if you could explain what you think

is going on in Iraq at the moment. Is it splitting along religious

lines? Sectarian, not religious. Unfortunately there is a catalogue

of failures from the occupation until now, including dismantling

the institutions of the state, the application of procedures without

judicial control. This has led to a great vacuum in Iraq. The vacuum

was used by neighbouring powers to influence events in Iraq, including

Iran. Iran is manipulating the Prime Minister. Know, they

supported him gaining power. They want him to have the power in Iraq.

The sectarian split is between Sunni and Shia Muslims.

Unfortunately it is between the Shia politicians and the silly

politicians. Where is it going to lead? Matej Vanko if it continues,

which it looks like doing, this will definitely read to the country

splitting. If things continue as they are now. The Iraqis are

resisting. By and large the Iraqis are not sectarian. If you take any

tribe, you will see that part of the tribe is Sunni and part of it

is Shia. Really, the conflict lies within the political circles, not

within the people of Iraq. Let's look within the political circles,

because you make this claim and are very critical of the Prime Minister,

effectively accusing him of creating his own dictatorship, and

yet you are in government with him. We gave him at the time to embark

on the power-sharing agreement, which he signed, I signed and other

signed. Unfortunately nothing happened. By your ministers...

Those who stayed on, they stayed on their own merits. The party that

you lead has cabinet posts. They do not represent the party any more

because we have issued orders that members of the Cabinet should

withdraw from the Cabinet. How many disobeyed you? 3.So there are

three people of Europe ministers, Euro -- your own party. Whatever

the Prime Minister decides, they are falling. They are not

answerable to our party any more. What seems very odd is that he

laugh, getting more votes and more seats in Parliament than the Prime

Minister's party and yet you appear to have been outmanoeuvred, not

only then when the government was formed, but subsequently such that

you cannot control your own party. We were outmanoeuvred by Iran,

definitely. Iran played a very active role, a very important role,

in supporting the other party. is a democracy, this is the thing

that Iraq has. It is not a full- blown democracy yet. Is a young

democracy. By your party got the most seats. How can you be blaming

Iran for what happened when you were in a position to either form

or not form a government with the current Prime Minister? Iran

exerted a lot of pressure on the groups that had links with Iran and

they decided that they are not allowing my party to take over and

for government, which is contrary to the constitution and contrary to

the democratic procedures. In any case there was an attempt for seven

months. A lot of leaders intervened to try and convince the Iranians

and the Qatari leaders -- convinced the Iranians, people from around

the world, they were trying to convince Iran that they should not

interfere with Iraqi internal affairs. You are blaming Iran, but

there was still. That you chose to go into the government. After seven

months of knot forming the government, we thought that the

country needed a government and the alternative is a power-sharing

agreement between us and the opposition. So we signed a power-

sharing agreement. Was that a mistake? It was not good,

unfortunately. We stayed in the Cabinet for a period of time, until

we saw that there were no intentions to implement the

agreement and by then the demonstration started in Iraq.

except that part of the problem is that you couldn't control Iran

Party? -- your own party. If your party formed a block that was

together, then you could have had more influence than you chose to?

No, because they were interferences from Outterside powers to prevent

this from happening. You picked up a lot of silly votes. Do you

recognise that they may feel let down by you now? We tried, and this

was really an opportunity that the sun is elected the Shia and the

shows that they are not sectarian. They elected you. You are a secular

Shia. You have brought some is a long and tried to reach across the

sectarian divides. What happened was very clear. There was Iranian

influence on certain parties in Iraq. They were objecting to my

party taking over. That is why I am saying that leaders tried to

intervene and interfere by explaining to Iran that it is not

the way to into the Iraq, but the Iranians never budged.

Unfortunately what went was this -- what went with this was an this

international -- the international community agreed with Iran and we

had to agree because we couldn't leave the country without a prime

minister. You see the international community, are you saying the

Americans? Yes.Do you feel let down by the Americans? They let

down the political process. They let down the democratic process.

realistically what could they have done? They could have chosen their

offices not to accept him as a prime minister. They should have

said no, even though the majority... They should have said that we

respect the constitution. Iraq was still under the chapter 7. The

Security Council supported the elections and the support of the

results of the elections. Then they changed their minds, once Iran

started to behave in a very aggressive way against my party.

sounds as though you are saying, I didn't get my way, the Americans

should have put me in. The Iraqi people voted me in. Not the

Americans. The Americans unfortunately, I don't know why,

they agreed to what Iran was saying. They blocked the way of my party

taking over. It is very simple. That is what happened. Where are we

now? Week are in a situation where you say we have a man who is making

moves to become the dictator of Iraq. The way he is paid --

behaving will lead to a full-blown dictatorship. In democracies, you

cannot see one person running three, four, five posts together at the

same time. Prime minister, Commander In Chief, Minister of

Defence and so on. His Iraq know better now than under Saddam

Hussein? It is not that much better. We are losing 1,000 people every

month from explosions and terrorist groups. Had you feel, because your

long history, you're history in exile, you're history of the

Americans... We need to be verified. We feel betrayed and that the Iraqi

people have been cheated. They are not exercising their rights. They

are not having their rights. Their rights have been confiscated.

feel in any way responsible? I feel some responsibility. You regret it?

I don't regret. Saddam Hussein was a dictator. It was a class

dictatorship and we wanted to govern. He tried to assassinate you.

You're in Surrey when you woke up one night to an axe man. I was in

He was as fascinating people. He sent people to assassinate me in

London. -- a fascinating. We had to get rid of him. For the sake of the

Regent. It is very unfortunate.It makes us blame ourselves for

listening to what had been done to Iraq after the occupation, when the

country was dismantled. The sectarians prevailed. Iran took

advantage of this and entered Iraq. On top of this, the execution... It

was a brain could execution. It was a can year-old mistake. It still

continues. As we speak. R Sunnis right if they feel they are

mistreated? They are disenfranchised. Are they

discriminated against? Yes, yes. A lot of shiatsu are marginalised.

How have they given up on the political process? There is a

general understanding. The political process does not define

itself. It does not become an inclusive political process. Things

will get out of hand. We are not at the point of no return it yet. But

we will reach this if things continue the way they are. He would

a bullet take? Today there was a blowing up of their mosque. I think

Iraq would be dismembered by now. There is an election this year.

There is an opportunity for the people to choose to day one. They

have chosen. People are disenchanted with Iraq. They did

not want to vote anymore. They do not trust politicians. They've

voted for you before. They voted for me. They saw that the

international community... Did not blame you? They know the facts.

They know how we were a shot dead. None of the was your fault?

course not. I was elected. You were elected but you have not been able

to judge -- to deliver what it promised. I cannot face Iran and

the US together. It is not possible. It is totally impossible. You say

it is not passed the point of no return. Not yet.What is required

for the Americans to get involved... no. The region is changing. There

is a demise in the extremists. Syria, there is an end there. It

will influence the whole region. Iran is losing a lot of power.

see an end to what is happening in Syria? Others see a flow of arms

and support between Iraqi is and Syrians. Yes. But the regime is

finished. There is an uprising by the Syrian people. The regime is

not acceptable anymore. It is changing now. You can see it in the

decisions of the US. It has been favourable for the position in

Syria. It will influence the whole picture and the whole region. It

will alter the political landscape. Iran will not be able to dictate

border once. -- dictate what it wants. The other suggestion is that

one of the effects of Syria and we were talking about is that you have

the country splitting up. If you have suggested it as a likelihood

anyway. You could have the Sunni dominated areas, are effectively

merging with a Syria. And have Iraq at splitting up. Perhaps this is

the answer? It is not fared well for the Kurds. -- federal. If this

scenario happens, it will lead the country into an ended civil war.

And wars between various countries. Because of water, because of

ideologies, because of oil and gas. This is not the answer. The answer

for Iraq and the region in a can -- inclusive political process. And in

respect tikka democracy and the constitution. -- and in respect to.

Where is the inclusive political process? There is no inclusive

political process. That is what we need. We have two important... We

are not allowed to vote. They asked for provincial elections a couple

of months ago. There is no political process. People are being

disenfranchise. One month ago, there were escalations with the

Kurds. What are you doing? You pay this picture of a disintegrating

situation, what are you doing? working very hard. I am working to

control the Sunnis. Trying to control the extreme west. Trying to

forge new alliances with the same people. But you cannot even control

members of your own party and Cabinet. We had antagonism from

Iran. Our people were assassinated. In the last elections. Ten people

were executed. You can see the magnitude of the war against us.

Are you accusing Iran of those assassinations? I am not. I am

blaming the government for not been able to protect the Iraqi people.

Frankly speaking, we are not sectarian. We believe in Iraq. A

federal Iraq, a United Iraq. I am not clear what difference you are

making now so people can feel they should have faith and vote in the

elections. He conceded a sample of the provisional at elections. --

you can see it in the example. to the party. We are part of this.

We played a so good that can roll it in creating this. People are

seeing sectarians, they are all over Iraq. We have been trying to

forge alliances with the moderate groups on all sides. Codes, Sunnis,

and the rest of them. In opposite terrorism is not the answer, why is

violence in freezing? -- sectarian none. -- increasing. We do not have

the right economy to get the people job opportunities and to work. We

do not have services. It country has been left like a ship in a

stormy sea. What does that mean for elections next year? Will they be

free? So could relies on security. -- security. Will they be free?

Kabul they be fair? Ten people were killed from our list. They were

shot dead. You paid his picture of Iraq disintegrating. You say it is

not too late but it is difficult to see what would change in a

country... What is changing at two things. The emergence of new

alliances. It is very -- favourable. These alliances between the forces

of moderation who believe in democracy. You are creating a new