Nikos Dendias - Minister for Public Order, Greece HARDtalk

years to come. That's all from me for now. Stay with us for a

HARDtalk. Welcome to HARDtalk. Greece has become the new gateway to

Europe, receiving 90% of all illegal immigrants to the EU. That is

according to the country 's Minister for public order. He also says that

the Greek immigration problem may prove even greater than the

financial one. How have the years of austerity impact on Greek society?

The public order minister is here to tell us. Nikos Dendias, a warm

welcome. The years of austerity have been extremely tough for the people

of Greece. These think it has been worth it? What I have to say is that

Greek society presented its best, it suffered a huge contraction of the

economy, which I think is the first case we have ever seen without a

huge public unrest, and on the other hand we are working and seeing light

at the end of the tunnel. Looking at some of the figures. 27%

unemployment, 64% youth unemployment. It's a very long

tunnel that you are seeing light at the end. True, but like

nevertheless. There is positive news as well. We have good on the

pipeline, we can create surpluses in our budget. We do hope that we will

see growth in 2014. There are positives in front of us. You have

also had strokes and unrest in the streets. There are those who thought

at one point that Greek democracy itself was being challenged. Did you

ever feel about yourself that the future of democracy might be...

Not at all. Public unrest has been much less than in previous years. I

would say it Athens has been the most peaceful capital in Europe. Why

you think that is? Because the Greek society is understood the magnitude

of the problem. They tried their best. Let's talk about some of those

challenges. You are clearly very concerned about immigration. You

said that it could be a bigger problem than the financial crisis.

Financial challenges are partly with our hands. If we do the right

things, we will be able to see through the crisis and the difficult

times and go on to a better future. On the other hand, illegal

immigration has nothing to do with us. The causes of illegal

immigration are far beyond what we can reach. It is also a place in the

European geography that affects the very essence of the problem. Because

you are nearest to Syria and Egypt where there may be further unrest.

And Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Africa. We receive

almost 90% of the illegal migrants of all of Europe. But they don't

want to stay with you, do they? They want to go somewhere they can get

jobs. That is true. But nevertheless, several hundred

thousand are increase and they are a huge burden to our society. They

apply huge pressure to a system, which as we're so before is coming

out of a huge economic crisis. even though we understand the

difficulties, you said the country is being lost and that what is

happening now is Greece is biggest invasion ever. Is that really

responsible for a government minister? It strikes fear of,

doesn't it? Well, I am not happy with the amount of illegal

immigration in the country. I am saying that the pressure that has

been a pride to the Greek society and the systems of the great Society

are enormous. You saying that the EU was not helping you enough? Yes.

What should they do? Funding is required, and some sort of

reallocation will stop we cannot handle several hundred illegal

migrants by ourselves. But looking at the figures. Illegal immigrant

figures are always difficult, but legal immigration has actually gone

down quite a lot, some of them have left because economic conditions are

very bad. Illegal immigrants, the regular at migrants that the EU

calls them, you have conceded that they want to go somewhere else. So

what is actually the problem? not allowed to send them anywhere

else. If we could agree with the European Union and send them

somewhere else, that would be fine, but the shop on our doorstep and

they are stuck with us. We are a responsible country and won't allow

them to pass our borders to our partners, but we would like European

solidarity and decision-making. After we have finished with the

procedure of returns, some of them could be returned to that country of

origin. The remaining part should be divided between European countries

based on for example, the area of the country or the GDP of the

country or the population of the country. It can't be right for a

small country under a huge economic crisis to have the burden of the

illegal immigrants of the whole of Europe. That said, Greece is a

hospitable place. You have a tourist economy and you like visitors to

come. Why can't you treat some of these people, who are in terrible

circumstances, a bit better. You have been very seriously criticised

for the detention camps and the way in which the migrants are treated.

Let me tell you about that. Firstly, we don't consider them

detention camps. They are pre- removal centres. Secondly, we have

been closing them one after the other. We have closed five and

reopened five new ones which are much better, as modern as they could

be. Services are up to standards. Not everybody in the EU would agree

with that. You have had some criticism from the EU itself for the

way you handle this. I have to say that I am not of the same opinion as

you. I have seen very positive remarks from the Council of

ministers. Of course there is criticism. In May 2013 she spoke of

conditions in Greek detention centres as being not up to standard.

That was the old ones. The new ones have opened and everybody is invited

to chat. Nobody says that we are perfect. But within the crisis and

the budget, we are doing our best. We are spending 240 million of own

money on illegal immigrants per year. We get much less than that

from the EU. A huge amount of money that do we not have is being spent

for the welfare of these people. We are not counting on that figure the

amount for it and healthcare which is enormous in its own right.

are the very clear that more money from the EU good health but not only

money. Let me focus on one specific question which is about Syrians.

There are 100,000 dead in Syria and many people who have been displaced.

Turkey has many of them. We do not consider Syrians illegal migrants.

They are refugees. Then why have many of them being arrested? They

have not been arrested, they are being detained. But they are not

being granted asylum. We have a new asylum authority. More than 25% are

being let in. The Syrians are getting protection. They are under

international attraction. But the message that some people are getting

from this is that you are not welcome in Greece, please go

somewhere else. You launched an operation called Zen 's zoos, is

that correct? Last summer. Yes. was necessary to do it. The border

with Turkey was in a situation where we have something like 400 illegal

immigrants passing through per day. At the centre of Greece was becoming

a ghetto. Greeks were leaving, criminality was everywhere. We had

ended somewhere. Are you satisfied with the way that was conducted? You

been criticised by human rights groups? Some said it was a racist

pogrom. What we did was protect the Greek society and protect those

migrants. Those illegal migrants were victimised by Greeks and what

we did was what every country or any country has the right to do. We

protect our border and protect our citizens and applied human rights

even to people who are illegally within the country. It is certainly

true that there have been victimised by people traffickers and criminal

elements. But Human Rights Watch certainly says so. But it also says

that Greek police forcibly took many of two police stations but found

that very few of them were actually illegal. They are casting an

extraordinarily wide net. That is not true at all. Then you apply per

sale in your entitled to stay legally. But in that period, you are

legally. But in that period, you are not legally in the country. The

police have every right to check on the papers of those people. They

were just checking. If all of them, or those who have the right to

remain in Greece foreign amount of time, they are sent free from the

police station. What is wrong with that? Isn't this a weight of

resources, pulling in 85,000 people, when there are a small

minority? We have the data for those people now. We have files for them.

We know who they are. We know who is in the country. Human rights watch

claimed that almost everyone interviewed by human rights watch

complained about rude, and unpleasant behaviour from the

police. I did not see even one policeman being sued. Being sued?

That is quite difficult if you are an immigrant. We have about 86,000

people, not even on? CU think there are no cases, that the human rates

-- human rights Court of it wrong? They're not seeing the Greek police

are perfect, AMC and they're doing the best under the circumstances. --

I am saying they are doing their best. If cases do exist that are not

-- that I am not aware of, a welcoming a judicial process against

the officer involved. As another aspect of this. The European

commission of human rights says the impunity for the rising number of

racist crimes in Greece has to end. Do you accept that racist crimes are

on the rise? He says Greek police are not investigating them properly.

Impunity doesn't exist. Every crime is being investigated. For the

crimes to be investigated thoroughly, we have created a

special squad within the police force. Every crime, not just racist

crime, but especially racist crime, is being investigated. The people

who act unlawfully should be in prison. One example you reported was

the fatal stabbing of a worker I two criminals, one was linked to a Nazi

party. The people you mention have been apprehended. A much worried

about the party. They are clearly a neo-Nazi party. You have no doubts

about this? The core of the party is neo-Nazi. The core of the party is

neo-Nazi. It is something very dangerous for democracy and very

dangerous and completely against European and Greek values. The river

huge amount of illegal immigrants. -- there is a huge amount. The fact

that they created ghettos, that was the beginning of the party. So the

two things are linked in your view? Illegal immigrants and the people

saying they are losing Greece? are losing their rights. They are

afraid they are losing their rights. This is leading to the rise of

Golden Dawn, who took 7% of the votes in the past election. That is

a very sizeable part of the population that supports a Nazi

party. It would be impossible for me to agree that have percent of the

Greek population had become Nazis. During the second World War, one

ninth of the Greek population perished because of the Nazi

occupation. I are not free to accept that Greek society has become the

Nazis. We have to figure out what is happening. If you add up the

economic crisis, that is why the party is doing well. I am not saying

we will be soft on them. There have also been reports of some police

officers saying to crime victims, if you want help, go to Golden Dawn.

have had it myself, but have had no proof. Your view of that if it

happens, is presumably... There are reports that a large number of

police are voting for Golden Dawn. cannot control what people vote in

May country. Nobody can. I am aware of the phenomenon. They have to

abide by the law and by police regulations. It would be extremely

worrying for you in your official capacity if a section of the police

force were voting for a neo-Nazi party. If you look at the Golden

Dawn Page on the Internet, you will see that their prime target, and

archenemy is the police force. Those two things do not go together.

is their threat to Greek democracy? Do you think they have peaks? They

seem to be becoming more and more attractive. What are you worried

about? If we succeed with dealing with the migration phenomena and we

can show the Greek public that we will come out of the crisis, we will

face down the Golden Dawn phenomenon. One other aspect of

this, I want to talk about the future of how you see things, what

other highly political question has been the antiracism bills, various

alternatives. Why has your party decided, unlike the pollution

parties you will not supported. thought it was legally wrong. There

were mistakes in the way it was drafted. The existing legislation

could support because much better than creating new legislation.

is that set your face against all possibilities? What would you

consider? In terms of the message that has then sent out, it will be

tough on illegal migrants, who said you would like more help from the EU

to do so, would it not help defuse these criticisms if you supported an

antiracism bill? People criticises not supporting that girl, I am sure

that no one has the bill and no one knows what the existing policy is.

We are seeing we have enough laws. Some changes may be needed, but

creating new legislation will not help, it will create more opposition

in persecuting those people. How the UCB light in the tunnel being

achieved? -- how do you see the light at the tunnel? The illegal

migration needs to resolve, at least be addressed. The European North

would understand that the problems of the South to work here. In terms

of how long that may work, the river is a say if Greece does everything

that is expected of it, if it can accept the bitter pill of austerity

it will still be difficult in 2020. Ames reaches say we do not have 20

picoseconds seven years. -- I am sorry to say. Unless things change

and Greek society, we will have trouble. In what sense?The

electorate will feel they have been let down. So there will be a

rejection? You face a party in the right, Holden Dawn, and a party of

the left. Is that your concern? You have a year to convince the Greek

people it is working? We need to show them clear signs their life

could get better. How much is riding on how well you do? A lot. Things

are doing well already. Though we can predict what is happening in the

next three months, but we are well into it and it is doing superbly.

That is why Greece's image is important? Yes.Do you ever think it

would have been better to get out of the euro and to return to your

currency? I do not see any future in getting out of the row and that is

not the any future in getting out of Europe. I am confident that we are

going to survive. You understand that it is not confined to Greece,

this sense of disillusionment people have in Portugal in Spain, about how

the euro - euroscepticism is not just a British phenomenon. We have

part of the European dream that we believe in. If we do not hold it up,

those with a negative view will be proven right. How far is resentment

of Germany's involvement still a big issue in the country? Some parts of

the programme were wrong. The strongest countries should have seen

that from the beginning. There was a huge growth of 3,0%. That was more

than any country can sustain. It is obvious that something is imposed on