Mzwandile Masina - Interim President, ANC Youth League, South Africa HARDtalk

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Time for HARDtalk. Welcome to HARDtalk. South Africa is

holding general elections next year and for a 1st-time adult new

generation will cast their vote. The born free generation, they have no

direct memory of the struggle against apartheid and they have

grown up with a powerful African National Congress as their

government rather than as their liberators. In South Africa still

struggling to overcome inequality, corruption and youth unemployment,

what hopes can be party offered to the younger generation? Is a guest

today is Mzwandile Masina, the interim president of the ANC Youth

League. He is in charge of restructuring a troubled league

after its controversial former president was expelled. As the youth

league still got anything to offer very much. The ANC Youth League is

in real trouble isn't it? You said membership manipulation and

institutionalised factionalism. How did it get to that state and the

first place? I think it is part of the transition D&C has been facing.

-- the AMC has been facing. I think there was too much Euro worship this

match zero worship. I do not want to speak about individuals. But I think

the affairs of the youth league were in a chaotic and shambolic state and

we have been tasked with reclaiming a former glory. Your response has

been to go around closing down branches and you have been accused

of purging the leadership of anyone who is critical of the leadership.

We have not closed any branches. We are restructuring. Where we have

found still has problems, we have been able to take quick and decisive

action. None of the branches were affected through this experience. My

view and that of the collective that I league is that we would want to

assist branches that are stronger and more responsive. Let me put you

what the former president of the league has said. President Zuma is

destroying the youth league of Nelson Mandela. They are destroying

its because of fear of the unknown and fear of dissent. He knows

nothing about the youth league. He knows -- you can say nothing about

the youth league. From what I am sitting, he must focus on his

new-found party and I don't really want him to worry about the affairs

of the youth league. The membership of the organisation understand what

is at stake here and understand why it is important for us to rebuild

the ANC Youth League. Are you the right person to do it? You are not

young enough to be a member of the youth league. The maximum ages 35.

You you over that. That does not matter. It could be the woman's

league but it would not need to change to be a woman. I have been

brought in to assist the youth. I have served them for over 24 years

so I am best served to fix the problems. Critics say this is

heavy-handed centralism imposed on the descent in the membership. One

critic says that what we have seen his leadership making the decisions

and saying that it is agreed. It makes it difficult to have

discussion of the party. The ANC has always interfered with the events at

BF -- the affairs of the youth league. At all times, when the youth

league has undergone problems, the ANC has always come to intervene,

including in 2008 where the youth league conference which elected Mr

Mollema collapsed. The ANC made sure that that conference proceeded

smoothly. It can be correct that anyone could see the ANC intervenes

when there are problems. I don't think it should be correct that it

is wrong. The ANC -- the youth league has given the ANC its new

pride. It is a way for the ANC to renew itself from within. If you

bring it under control of the leadership, that vital role

disappears, doesn't it? It has always been under the control of the

Yangtze. It is an autonomous body -- of the ANC. It has never been an

opposition within the agency. It cannot be correct that it is going

to be tainted. -- came. I will be able to articulate some of the

policy positions that we hold very strongly in the youth league that we

think the ANC should be able to consider and will push for those

until they are achieved. You're also accused of using this further your

own -- using this to further your own career. You are accused of being

power hungry. One critic says you lack leadership and want to use the

ANC Youth League to campaign for your uncontrollable ambition.

not think I want to spend lots of time speaking about myself. Those

who have worked with me overtime note that I'm a disciplined member.

This has nothing to do with me. I am under no illusion that anyone can

agree with me. They might hold the view is that they are holding, I

don't know where they come from, but the most unfortunate part is that

people make unsubstantiated accusations and I'm not going to

entertain those. Give me some sense of how strong the youth league is

now. How many members have you got crystal --? We don't know no the

number of members. We try to put that together. Real members,

supposed to pretend ones? We want to separate those who are subjected to

a process. I'm talking about real members. We want to make sure that

these are not members belong to individuals. When you say you want

to talk about real members of the ANC, what many people here is

obedient members. Interested in the ones who are willing to toe the

party line and willing to operate within the party system. We do not

want anarchy and misguided militants in the first place . Some have

already defined themselves in the new party that has been defined with

ambition and sitting outside the leadership. We are not going to lead

a youth league that way. When we are accused of ambition, our conscience

is very clear. We want membership that is going to assist the party to

infuse new ideas. It is not about us, it is about what we can do for

the betterment of South Africa. they talk about South Africa's youth

and their engagement in the political discourse. It is a young

country. 38% of the country is aged between 15 and 35, which is the

youth league 's democratic. -- demographic. A quarter said they are

not going to vote in the next elections. When you think about the

sacrifices their parents generation made to secure them the right to

vote, in 20 years a quarter of them so there is no point to vote at all.

That's lamentable isn't it? I am aware that in a recent statistics

that we have been looking at, almost 6 million young people who are

supposed to be 1st-time voters, we are targeting them to make sure that

they are registered so they can vote. I want to believe that the

notion of people with no history of the ANC is fallacious. They know

from their parents generation. did think that many of them say

there is no point in voting? I do not know what motivates some of the

statistics. I do not want to comment much on them or criticise them

because I do not know the methodology used. But I can tell

you... That you are the president of the ANC youth league? Should you not

be finding out? We have designed a programme that aims to talk to what

the young people of South Africa are looking for. They do not seem to be

fired up and away previous generations were fired up. The

political that remain. We no longer needs the armed wing. Our new

struggle is a struggle for economic freedom in our lifetime. So we need

to define what we mean by that. We know that many of them that we

interact with it may not be at a scientific level, but they are

saying to us that if you prioritise education you will solve other

problems. If you deal with issues of unemployment and poverty, you will

be getting to the issues that affect us. Sports, culture, all the things

that are interested in us. Is that not wear Mollema has stolen a march

on you. He is focusing on those issues. He is promising them liars.

He has got into the heart of the question that economic freedom has

not followed the political freedoms won 20 years ago. No. He has told

the young people that he wants to make them his own party. What we are

saying is that young people are not confused. They do not think that

freedom is going to be delivered tomorrow. They know that the process

of the economic struggle must be properly theorised, but also it must

be backed with a very clear programme of action. That is why

they have comfort with the ANC. it has been 20 years now. Our

patient must the people of South Africa be? Including -- it took the

generation of Nelson Mandela almost 50 years to get the freedom we have

in our lifetime. So why must they be patient ? There is a strong and

invalid foundation. We have done that. But the second phase of what

we must do is to make sure that South Africa is reintegrated into

the economic space so that we can speak to the economic global

community. There is a big political problem bubbling away and it will

not the way forever. It will reach a crisis point at some point. Let me

quote to you the former media consultant. He says the ANC did is

to approach the youth if it wants to stay in power. The majority of

people will have no history at all. All and will have no loyalty to the

ANC from the memory of the struggle, but will scrutinise the

ANC on what it is delivered in the delivery of economic freedom.

ANC is 110 years old. The oldest member of the ANC is Nelson Mandela.

He was not there when the ANC was formed. All of us rely on history.

The ANC has a well-documented history of the liberation struggle.

But more importantly, they are having a record of services

delivered in South Africa. Young people will know what the ANC has

been able to do. In 1993, just before democracy, the government had

a reform for education. They set aside money for education in South

Africa. We were getting close to free education. Those young people

are interested in. They are threats, they have opened up their own party.

26 cent of young voters would like to vote for them. That is not far

behind the ANC. The media has bull terrier motors against the ANC. I

have no doubt in my mind that people are not going to follow someone who

is facing those kind of charges. In an environment of deep inequality,

voices like Julius Mollema will gain great attraction. People have put

confidence in the policies of the ANC. They continue to return to the

ANC. Some are certain things that have not been done well. When the

president took over office in 2009, could not create a number of jobs

that we would have expected. There are issues of poverty and

inequality. The gap between the rich and poor continues to widened. We

have experienced those problems in government for 19 years now. We will

look at your record in government. One thing the ANC pledged to do was

to transfer 30% of white owned farmland to black people by 2014. So

far, only 7% of land has changed hands. There was a lot of trial and

error. We need a willing buyer and a willing seller. I have just come

back from a conference where we have changed our land policy. It means

that the state will now, within the Constitution, we will not do illegal

things to excise the masses. Will we see land restitution speeding up the

Mac yes. For the first time we are going to know that pieces of land

available, we will assist the government to ascertain the real

value of the land. The previous year league wanted land seizures without

compensation, is that still a position you take? We just came from

a conference where the ANC is working on policy. It is not a land

grabbing policy. We have two applied the policies of the ANC. It is good

that they have started this. This not only Julius Mollema, they're

rather people. -- it is not only. Some very solid figures in South

African politicians. Respected Wall Street, not in South Africa. She is

not a politician. She says she is determined to rescue South Africa,

where would she all along? The voice of the ANC says the same thing about

everyone. If they are not in the ANC, they have no credibility or

legitimacy. What credibility does she have? Since the days in the

black consciousness that, she has served the world, she has not been

in the political space. They are not sure why she thinks that young

voters can connect better with her than the ruling party. They have

delivered service. We now have a track record. We are no longer from

a sale. We have done things practically. -- XA. We spoke to her

and she said that she was talking about the monumental failure of the

government and ANC. Parents are not sure that there shall generally

better off than they were. She is a good South African, she can see

those things. She can not say such undermining things of the ANC and

what the government has been able to deliver. You do not like criticism?

We accept criticism. If we do not like criticism we would not be

comfortable with new parties. Since 1959, there has always been a voice

of dissent. One of the founding fathers of the PEC was an ANC

member. He could not go far. Another member went through the same route.

Desmond Tutu himself, he said he had voted for the ANC in the past, but

will not vote for them after their way they have gone. He said there

were very good at the struggle, but they have not made the tradition to

becoming a party. He has a right to say so, he did not represent all

South Africans. He is an individual, we respect his stature. We think

that it is not correct for him to convince South Africans not to vote.

We would want to encourage him to go free party of his choice and leave

the ANC alone. We are not threatened by what he says. It is on the first

time he has said it. The ANC has done well in government. You worried

about corruption in Africa? Yes. Why has it taken off under the ANC

government? Under the ANC government, has been done. We have

put in place institutions that have not been in before. We have

strengthened the police and the army. We continue to do work around

fighting crime and corruption. yes, South Africa slipped to number

67 in the corruption index. It was 36 ten years ago, that is quite a

day. We do not control what the international committee was to say

about South Africa, but I can only speak about the efforts of the South

African government to fight corruption. We have had problems, we

have acknowledged them. More effort is being taken. When the closed down

the scorpions, because of the recent that we explained, people were

complaining. It is not just foreigners seem the corruption is a

problem. 77% of the Roman people think that political parties are

corrupt or extremely corrupt. ring crime statistics, crime has

gone down in a number of years. Corruption does remain a problem. It

is not just politicians, it is the public sector. The biggest scandals

come from multinational companies. They have defrauded the state.

Nobody speaks about them. We want our government to pursue criminal

charges against all those companies. We think that it is corruption and

fraud. That is what we need to speak about. There is a widespread feeling

that in order to get on it over to join the ANC. Many people believe

it. I have not come across young people who join the less. We have a

number of professionals who have issues they want help with from the

ANC. We are talking the accountants, young engineers, IBM

professionals. We need the ideas more than anything. We do not

promote corruption. He said a sulphur was a problem. It said those

who come to the ANC to the military resources must forget it. -- to

achieve unless resources. We must flush them out. South Africa is a

much more corrupt society that was under government of that. The ANC

must take responsibility for that. Isn't this damaging to the

country's reputation? The reality is that more is being done to fight

crime and corruption. We have put in place institutions like the Hawks,

the Public protector, to make sure we fight crime and corruption. Can

you make progress before the election? You have got to get the

use out and it is also its. They are the machines of the ANC's tradition.

We are seeing that the youth of South Africa, the ANC is the only

party that will respond to the challenges that face them. The ANC

is the only party fighting corruption in government. It cannot