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It is time now for HARDtalk. Welcome to HARDtalk with me, Tim Franks. I | :00:00. | :00:17. | |
am in Paris at the headquarters of tennis in France. My guest is a | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
Marion Bartoli, the French tennis player and Wimbledon champion. Last | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
year after achieving the highest accolade in her sport, the Wimbledon | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
title, she announced that she was walking away, retiring. Can she | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
really never imagined competing again? What does that say about the | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
health of her sport? Marion Bartoli, welcome to HARDtalk. | :00:39. | :01:01. | |
I just sat in my introduction that you have retired. Have you? Yes. I | :01:02. | :01:10. | |
did. I retired from tennis. I am not a retirement person. No chance of a | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
cosmic a lot of people were surprised. You | :01:15. | :01:26. | |
had just won the world 's greatest tournament. For those of our | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
audience who do not understand what Wimbledon means, give me a sense of | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
what it did mean. I was eight years old in a very small village in | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
France. I was training with my father, he is a doctor. I dreamt | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
about winning Wimbledon since I was eight. My number one wish was | :01:53. | :02:02. | |
writing and then winding winning Wimbledon. Of course, I had to | :02:03. | :02:11. | |
practise extremely late. I had to go to school so I was probably | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
finishing my day around 11pm. There was a time now is going on court to | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
practise tennis so I was offered late every single day. Finishing my | :02:21. | :02:35. | |
practice at 1:30am. You really have to have something inside you that is | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
stronger than anything. Even when you hear a million times that it | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
will not happen and you will never get it, one day, maybe you will live | :02:46. | :02:54. | |
it. But then six weeks later you said that your body had given up? I | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
had been a professional player since I was 16. When I started 2013, I | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
felt that it was my best year of tennis. I think that because I felt | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
that way, and my mind wanted to win so badly that somehow I put | :03:14. | :03:22. | |
everything together. Sometimes your mind is the best anti-inflammatory. | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
Even if my back was on fire or my shoulders were hurting I was able to | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
lock all those negative thoughts and all the pain and just go and just | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
pursue my dream. It was almost my destiny to do it. But then, when I | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
finally won, it was like a castle of cards. Everything went down. My | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
whole body was begging me to stop. You have to understand that when I | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
play my first time in Toronto I was calling my dad every morning before | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
going on court. Zayne, dad, I am so much in pain and I cannot hold it | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
any more. I was crying every single morning because I had so much pain. | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
What was he saying? He said listen to your heart no matter what it is. | :04:17. | :04:28. | |
At the time, everybody was saying that she will change her mind and | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
this is what people do. They say they have had enough or need time | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
away. They need to recoup with their body and mind. One player said that | :04:38. | :04:46. | |
she will regret this decision when Wimbledon comes around again. But | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
your mind is that? Since that day I have never had one day not even one | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
second when I regret my decision. You don't think when Wimbledon comes | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
around this year, I'd love to be there. No. I will be so proud to see | :05:03. | :05:11. | |
my name as the 2013 champion. I want... I close chapter one as a | :05:12. | :05:21. | |
tennis player. And this is the best, happy, Cinderella, Disney | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
movie ever. It is just perfect. But now I will write a new one and a new | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
chapter of my life. I am not a retired person, I hate that word. I | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
am just stopping being Marion Bartoli, the professional tennis | :05:39. | :05:46. | |
player. It was your life for over 20 years. You practised even as a young | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
kid until past midnight. Whether times when you were doing that where | :05:53. | :05:59. | |
you just wasted what you are doing? No. I was on a mission. It was not | :06:00. | :06:08. | |
only for me, I was not just doing it for me. I had a mission to take my | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
dad and my parents and my whole family outside the place where I was | :06:15. | :06:24. | |
in France. I just felt somehow I need to make that happen. Of course | :06:25. | :06:32. | |
it was a lot easier for me to go to school. School was easier than | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
tennis. I was not gifted, physically in tennis. When you see a loss of | :06:38. | :06:46. | |
players having their parents being professional athletes, it is | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
different in my case. I had to work even harder to become one of the | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
greatest. I felt that I needed to do that for my father. I needed to stop | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
seeing him working 18 hours a day and being sad. Some people listening | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
to that might think that it is not the job of an 11 -year-old to take | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
the burden of their families expectations. And that perhaps you | :07:11. | :07:19. | |
were being driven by your parents. My parents never told me that. It | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
was really what I was feeling. Now I am not a professional tennis player, | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
I want to work for charities. I want to give to others. There must have | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
been times when you are practising late at night as a young child where | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
you are saying to your father, your coach, enough. I have had enough. | :07:42. | :07:49. | |
Let's stop. We don't need to practise until 1am. Feeling is not | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
acceptable for me. When I was at school, 19 out of 20 was not good | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
enough. I had to have 20 out of 20. Nine Serbs in the 50 centimetre | :08:01. | :08:11. | |
square box, nine Serbs out that is not raising a challenge. And | :08:12. | :08:28. | |
yet your moment of triumph came shortly after you decided that your | :08:29. | :08:30. | |
father would no longer be your coach. You did it with a former | :08:31. | :08:42. | |
player. What was the change? What made that mean that you could then | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
take the Wimbledon title? It has always been clear that my father | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
will always remain my hero. At some point, I felt that I needed to take | :08:55. | :09:03. | |
over my tennis and be more involved. To get these extra bit of confidence | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
that are needed. I was in the final or the semi-final or the | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
quarter-final but I was still missing something. I was visiting my | :09:14. | :09:23. | |
confidence. With my new coach, I felt like I could not lose. You said | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
that even as you are winning Wimbledon, you felt, maybe this is | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
my final year. Your body was beginning to hurt. I am wondering | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
how much you blame that on the nature of the tennis calendar. A lot | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
of people say it is just too punishing. There are people who run | :09:46. | :09:53. | |
professional tennis try and cram into many matches. What do you | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
think? There are some pluses and minuses. If you don't put enough | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
tournaments, you do not get the opportunity to enough players. To | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
really perform and be professional players. If you put too much, and of | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
course the top players, because you go so far in every tournament, it | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
becomes too much for your body. Sometimes you cannot do a circuit | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
for ten players, you have to look at the big rich. You and the longest | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
that anybody went before winning a Grand Slam. Whether times when you | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
thought, I need a break. Of course. You bounce back. Of course I am very | :10:41. | :10:53. | |
proud of what I achieved but a also proud of the way I bounced back from | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
defeat, from loss. From depression almost. When I was losing when I | :10:59. | :11:05. | |
thought I should have wind, I could stay for three days inside my hotel | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
room, barely eating or talking to anyone. It was very nasty. If you | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
are in China or Japan or all over the place, you are by yourself. It | :11:18. | :11:32. | |
is you and only due. -- you. When you have a team around you, your | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
friends, if you have a bad day you can go on the bench and your partner | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
can take on some of the job. But in tennis it is just you. But then when | :11:46. | :11:53. | |
you achieve, the reward that you get... It is very hard for me to | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
find something in normal life that is that kind of feeling. I can see | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
it in your face and he'll what you say, that pride. Understandable | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
pride. I don't want to sound too miserable at do you ever think | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
yourself, what if I had not wind that Wimbledon? After all those | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
years and asset as a child. After 47 appearances in grand slams. Do you | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
ever think... That is the magic of it. I felt something was happening | :12:33. | :12:41. | |
from somewhere that was giving me something to make it happen. I would | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
have still made a final foray Grand Slam. | :12:49. | :12:58. | |
Now I can say, proudly that I am a grand slam champion. Having asked | :12:59. | :13:09. | |
you about the strains that are on the top women tennis players, ten or | :13:10. | :13:17. | |
11 months of the year, it might seem like an odd question to ask you if | :13:18. | :13:19. | |
you think that actually, women's tennis, hats for the grand slams | :13:20. | :13:28. | |
should go to best of five sets. Please! No! You are rolling your | :13:29. | :13:38. | |
eyes. We already played so many matches over the years. Don't give | :13:39. | :13:47. | |
us five sets! You probably heard Andy Murray say this but let me | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
quote to you. I think the women should play best of five sets. I do | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
not see why they could not do it. Maybe not from the first round. I | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
think that is what the guys tend to complain about, rather than the | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
equal prizemoney it sell. He says it is possible. Maybe just in the later | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
rounds of a championship. But you know that there is grinding of teeth | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
among male players, not because of equal prizemoney but because some | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
women's tennis playing games last 45 minutes. To give me that! Honestly, | :14:26. | :14:37. | |
I can't take this. Women cannot do the same physical... Same physical | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
abilities as men. It is not humanly possible. That it! You cannot ask a | :14:43. | :14:56. | |
woman to play six hours. It used to be said that women could not run the | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
marathon on and then in 1988, the marathon on comes into the Olympics. | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
There are those who argue that the problem about not having a five set | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
match is that, in the words of one sport journalist, it perpetuates the | :15:13. | :15:20. | |
myth of the weaker sex. I am starting to commentate on our and I | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
have seen men's matches that ran an hour and 20 minutes, even in a | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
quarter-final. Don't say to me that some women's matches last 45 minutes | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
and we are almost so lazy. Man I mean, there are so many matches they | :15:38. | :15:45. | |
go for three hours. It is enough for a woman, believe me. And we are | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
ready playing all the time, we put and push our bodies towards the | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
limits. Asking to do even more and to add to set to that, it does not | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
make sense. One side saying, that you think it is already too much and | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
the other saying no, let's put more. You have to be realistic. If you | :16:09. | :16:17. | |
want to put five set just for the one match. On one match, a woman can | :16:18. | :16:30. | |
play one five set match. But if the quality is going to be as good, I | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
doubted. But if you want to make it special, I agree with that. But | :16:37. | :16:44. | |
doing it for seven matches? ! It is not a woman you need but to. You | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
have to have Serena a and Serena beat, Maria a and Maria B. I do not | :16:50. | :16:58. | |
see how woman can play 45 cents in two weeks. I do not see it. Or she | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
would finish in the hospital. two weeks. I do not see it. Or she | :17:02. | 1:29:38 | |
far do you think the women's game is still tainted by sexism? I mean, if | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
you had to deal... I hesitate to raise this, but you had to deal with | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
an astonishing crass comment last year, as you were winning Wimbledon, | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
he said, the reason you have got such a fighting style on the court | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
is, he said, and he later apologised, is because your father | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
may have told you that you were not a look at. How did you deal with | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
that is make very still a measure of sexism around in tennis? I felt I | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
had already answered to the person, did I gym about being a supermodel? | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
No. Did a gym about being a grand slam winner, yes. At the end of the | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
day, criticism goes with the fame, if I can put it that way. Men will | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
be judged on tennis results. A woman, yes, she is going to get some | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
comments on how she looks but it is the way in every department. Not | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
only in tennis. The same when you get to a job. If a woman goes to an | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
interview for a job, she will be more judged at the beginning by the | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
recruiter, on the outside, then on her CV. That is the way the world | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
goes. Should we change that? Yes, absolutely. But the reason | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
difference between knowing what is going on and accepting the rules... | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
What do I want to change the rules? Yes, absolutely. Right now I have to | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
play by the rules and right now, woman is game to be seen not only on | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
tennis results, achievements and abilities, but I do not John | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
Riverdale is a supermodel either, just to say that. He talks about the | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
need for power and stamina. Were you concerned at all while you were | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
playing that some of the people you are playing against might have been | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
taking performance enhancing drugs, that they may have been a doping in | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
the sport? Absolutely not. Andy Murray, Roger Farah, have not | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
levelled at the accusation that they have said there is a need for | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
increased testing... I absolutely agree there is a need to increase | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
test but I never had the feeling when I lost the match that I lost | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
the match because the person I was playing against was taking or had | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
taken some performance of drugs, absolutely not. It would make sense, | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
given the stamina that you need for tennis, the power, the ability to | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
take in oxygen, the power to recover from injury, I mean, all that would | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
suggest the sport... I will give you an example. I was still on the anti- | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
doping list and programme through the 31st of December. So they came | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
to my home even as a retired person in September and October for two | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
blood tests. I also heard some people saying, she retired bit cause | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
she was doping... They have to understand in September, October, | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
November, once a month they came and I gave my blood and it comes out | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
negative. I was followed even as a retired player. Throughout the year | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
you have 50 or 60 tests. I think that tests have to be increased, I | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
think the urine test may not eat enough. If somebody takes something | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
so powerful that the test cannot find it, then we need to find a way | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
to make sure that when someone goes to a doping test, if he is really | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
taking something, he will be caught. That I agree on. But when I played | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
the date feel or thought that the player I lost against, I lost | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
against her because she was taking something I was not taking, no. | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
Francis Davis cup captain, did he get it right when he said it would | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
be foolish not to be concerned by these problems, the problem of | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
doping is, especially since the game got more physical? I totally agree | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
with you. We have to be aware and we have to be very careful in not | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
giving up and not saying, because we have only filed a very few cases, it | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
is not going to happen. -- found a few cases. The power of the doping | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
control, we need to be at the same level as the people who are trying | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
to cheat. Meaning, if they go to the best lavatory and took a product | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
which is the first class product, we have to be able to match that with a | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
first-class doping test. So if they are trying to cheat, they will be | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
caught stop it again, I never felt that some players were taking | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
products. Just because we did not have the possibility of the right | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
test, we let them play. I never had that feeling. Let me finish with | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
something perhaps more cheerful than talking about doping. He said that | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
you are playing a little bit at the moment. I think you are going to be | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
playing in an exhibition match at Wimbledon this coming summer. When | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
you do step on a tennis court now, do you still have that hunger to | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
win? Oh, yes. Sometimes it is ridiculous. A played with Patrick, | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
who is Serena 's coach, he has also commentated in France, he was there | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
at the study and open and we played on Saturday. We did a ten point feel | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
crosscourt. And when I won, it was like, it yes! So, of course, I have | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
to win this deal but when I am playing, you will hear me laugh from | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
100 metres away, I just have so much fun. It is so cool to be able to hit | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
the tennis ball without any pressure. But I cannot play without | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
it, absolutely. But it is just a small part. Marion Bartoli, thank | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
you very much for being on HARDtalk. Thank you, it was my pleasure. | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
We will continue to see very disruptive weather as we have | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
through the course of Wednesday. A deep vigorous area of low pressure | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
bringing stormy conditions to much of the country, in particular the | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
south and west. The area of low pressure will be sitting across | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
Ireland with very strong wind wrapping around it with outbreaks of | 1:29:39 | 1:29:38 | |
heavy | 1:29:39 | 1:29:39 |