Eric Cantor - Former House Majority Leader, US Republican Party HARDtalk

contracted the disease last year while treating patients in Sierra

Leone. Welcome to HARDtalk. Other

Republicans are serious about winning back the White House in

2016? Sometimes it is hard to tell, the front-runner to win the party's

presidential nomination is Donald Trump. A billionaire businessman

come celebrity who despises the Republican establishment. My guest

has long been a pillar of that establishment. Eric Cantor was the

number two Republican in the House of Representatives before he got

sensationally dumped in a primary contest. What on earth is going on

inside the Republican Party? Eric Cantor, welcome to HARDtalk.

Let us begin by going back to last summer. You were unceremoniously

dumped by voters inside Iran party in a primary. It was an historic

loss, it was brutal. Have you come to terms with it? Yes, I don't think

anyone is going to enjoy a moment like that, but there were teaching

moments. There were a lot of misconceptions about what happened

then to me and what is happening now with the Republican conference on

Capitol Hill. In my particular instance, there was a situation

where in Virginia, the state I am from, we have something called open

primary is, where the parties can mix. It doesn't happen very often,

most pundits didn't believe it would happen. I actually won the majority

of republicans, it was just 23,000 Democrats crossed over and voted in

my primary, because they didn't have one in the Democratic party. You

have a war chest of over $5 million to your campaign, you lost to a

little-known conservative professor of economics who had $300,000 to

spend. You should not have lost. No one of your seniority ought in your

position had lost before. There was also not a situation where there was

a crossover sabotage folk like that. Malfeasance on the heart of my

campaign team was that we were playing to the Republican voters,

which we won. We will talk a bit about what is going on in Capitol

Hill, and the Speaker of the house race and the tea party. There is a

lot of misconception about what is going on. You are sort of blaming

the Democrats who cheated and voted in your race, but many insiders

say, I am quoting from Ron Christie, a former adviser to Bush

and Cheney: he spends more time with their bobbies in Washington and

special interest groups rather than being on Main Street in his own

district. That is fodder for the press. It is what he said. If you

know Virginia, and you know what happened, there are a lot of

misconceptions. The forces at work and what is going on in the

Republican Party today, there is a very small and vocal minority, the

so-called tea party. If you look at how the tea party arose, it arose

because after Barack Obama was elected, and he had majorities in

the Senate, a big strong majority in their House. For two years, 09 and

ten, he was able to put through his stimulus bill, his health-care bill,

and several other pieces of legislation, and what happened was

that the country, and the tea party rose up and said enough is enough.

They don't believe that people like you, the Republican establishment in

Washington, were fighting their corner. They saw you as part of the

problem, and they saw you as part of politics as usual. Initially we were

thrust into the majority, I became the majority leader in 2010, from

with a leader, -- whip. You promised that he would take Barack Obama on,

tear down his health-care bill, you are taking on in a number of areas,

but you talked big and delivered little. Somewhere along the line the

expectation shifted from blocking Barack Obama to trying to reverse

what he had done and enact a Conservative vision, all while the

President was still in office. If you look at our Constitution, if you

don't have the White House unique two thirds of Congress to override a

White House veto, neither of which did the Republican Party have.

Somewhere along the way the expectations got to a point where it

was just unreasonable, and what is going on now... You are using words

like reasonable, pragmatic, practical. Conservatives in the tea

party and many of the activists who drive the Republican movement at the

moment have said those words have become a code for a copout. That is

just untrue, what so many in the tea party, I wouldn't even call them

conservative, they are more radical populist... The chairman of the

group called For America, the message from Eric Cantor and his

failure is that without a majority, the GOP collapses. You couldn't

carry them with you. I did, this is a misnomer and misconception. I won

the Republican majority, I would not and could not overcome the influx of

as many Democrats who came into my primary race. If you look at what is

going on Capitol Hill, the overwhelming majority of republicans

in the house would have liked to have seen John Boehner stay. The

majority would have wanted Kevin McCarthy to be Speaker. The problem

is, there are 30 to 40 members who have now decided they can block a

speaker from being elected on the floor of the house, because you have

to have 218, and the Republican margin is only 27 or 28. Would you

accept that right now the Republican Party looks dysfunctional? There is

no question, because there is a very vocal minority who is able to seize

opportunities to use procedural tools, or sometimes work with the

Democrats, to disrupt the process from working the way it usually

does. How galling is that, and you have just talked about the search

for a new Speaker, that if you hadn't frankly screwed up in the

summer of 2014, you would almost certainly be the next Speaker of the

house? We haven't... I want to know how personally galling it is. Things

happen, I am someone who looks forward, not back. I have landed in

a great place... You are making an awful lot of money as a banker, but

that is part of the problem. A lot of people see you, we talked about

the Washington insider thing, but people see US too tired street. The

American way is a way of entrepreneurialism, it is everybody,

not just those who have, to have an opportunity to move up. This is part

of what is fuelling a lot of the anger across our country today, and

I know here in the UK and elsewhere. Let us talk about how the anger is

playing out on the national stage. Let's talk about the choice facing

Republicans for the nomination for the presidency, the race for the

White House. The front-runner, four months, despite all the predictions,

is Donald Trump. He is a celebrity, a businessman, but he sure is not a

reliable Republican. Do you think that Donald Trump has turned himself

into a credible candidate for the White House? Absolutely not, and

here is where I think a lot of the anger and fury is coming from. I

said before that somewhere along the line expectations became Republicans

with a majority in the house could somehow change the law without

having the president agree to their demands. It was instead of the fact

that we had a Democratic President, and didn't have 60 votes in the

Senate, this is when the so-called radicals went out there demanding a

sharp downpour at fault in the federal debt. If Republicans are

seen and per trade to not have delivered on what they said they

would, which is again an untrue statement, then Donald Trump as an

outsider, along with Kali fearing and Ben Carson, they are outsiders.

They say, I had nothing to do with what happened, if people are worried

about stagnant wages in the direction of the country, and

America's shrinking on the international scene, someone might

Donald Trump, he will say, it wasn't me! They go in and benefit. They

love the idea of the outsider who is not sullied by everything that has

happened over the past decade and more in Washington. Matt Latimer,

former speechwriter for George W Bush, he looks at the Trump campaign

and he says, Donald Trump has shown the creativity that Republicans, to

the great dismay of the people who elected them, not only lack but are

actively avoiding. Here's an unbelievable marketer, he is a

salesman, it is what he does. But if you look at what he

will sit here and promise he will build a wall across the thousands of

miles of the southern border with Mexico. And he said he would get the

Mexican government to pay for it. You know that is hogwash, it is not

going to happen, but people like to hear it. This is what he is

selling... What does that say about the rest of the Republican Party and

those who are fighting for the nomination with him that he is still

at 37% in the polls, way ahead of anyone else. The Republican Party

has been outside the White House for almost eight years, and you have an

open seat, there is no Democrat incumbent, when you have

situation voters tend to be angry. They are super angry because of all

the things we talked about now, but history has shown that as we

actually get closer to when people go into the ballot booth, which is

not until the end of January /February, in Iowa, four months

away, if voters to take it among -- upon themselves when they go about

deciding who they want to be president. It is not an early city

-- silly season, it is quite far along. You need to calculate how

much damage Donald Trump may be doing further damage in the long

run. -- damage he may be doing to the party in the long run. You talk

about the massive wall he claims to be going to build. He also says that

Mexico rescinding its drug dealers, criminals and rapists. You know the

impact that is having on the Latino population. How much damage is he

doing to the Republican brand? I know candidates like Jeb Bush have

come out stridently opposing such ugly language. I have said it is

divisive, and I don't think it is befitting of someone with a profit

temperament to be the president of the US. But he is still the

front-runner, what does it say? It says there is a small vocal

minority. Come on! He has 27% in the polls and Jeb Bush has 6%. How come

Jeb Bush is at 6% and Donald Trump, the guy you have just said is

frankly, to use a euphemism, a clown who is divisive, he is a 27%? This

is a time where voters are angry. There is no question there is a lot

to be angry about, and things should be better. There is no solution

Donald Trump is offering, he is just running as an outsider saying, I had

nothing to do with anything going on, I will just the better. He has

no substance behind that claim. People want to believe that because

we have to do things better, but I do believe, as we get closer to the

primary season, Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina out early,

and many others in the south-east will have the super Tuesday, then we

will get to Florida. At the time we are at the end 60% of delegates...

You are an incredible optimist. There may be some being a bit more

realistic inside your party. Collison Pete King from New York who

has worried aloud that your party is no longer serious about governance.

He says the kind of people coming to the top in the party are those who

talk about shutting down the government, defaulting the

government budget. This is not a serious proposition for governance.

I couldn't agree more, and a lot of my battles when I was in Congress

was to fight against the nonsense, to say somehow that the US

government should default on its debt or that we should go into

shutdown. Maybe it need to look different

party. There is a difference between the Democratic Party and the

Republican Party and I wouldn't say Donald Trump is reflective of the

party. He is not conservative. A lot of the Tea Party issues out there

and the agenda they are pursuing, they are populist radicals more than

conservatives. Real conservatives are conservatives who believe in

progress through incremental progress and a temperament that is

befitting of a conservative, not a revolutionary. That is the

foundation upon which the US was built and the Constitution we have,

and again, I think a lot of this provides for tremendous amounts of

fodder. But I do think as we get closer you will see a lot of

seriousness from voters. We will get to the issues in a moment but one

more thought about your guide Jeb Bush. Jeb Bush is seen as a moderate

inside the Republican Party. He is not seen as one who will be tough on

government spending. He seems a guy who will reach out to the Democrats

and work on them with healthcare and immigration reform, meet in the

middle ground, and that I would put it to you is a message the activist

in your party absolutely don't want to hear. He has eight years of

record as governor for Florida where the state ranked out of seven of

eight of those years as number one in terms of job creation. He has a

record of slashing spending and reducing the size of government,

reforming schools in a state that was near the bottom. Now that state

I know is now that top of the south-east and I don't know the

exact percentile nationally but he has done a tremendous amount to help

those who need their help most. If Jeb Bush came to you and said I know

you are supporting me and you will raise some money but my god I need

your help, I am 6% in the polls, how can I change the dynamic in the

race, what would you say? There has to be a commitment. He and the

campaign are committed to, a strategy to go out and make sure

that the folks who are in place on the ground in the early states and

who would recruit the other leaders to understand the challenges in the

states are facing, that is what he is doing. If you look at where the

endorsement are coming from in the early states and then some, Jeb Bush

has a disproportionate number. Again, we've got to get out from

under their sort of silly season we are in and begin to get more

serious. Let's get serious, you and me, let's talk about a couple of

difficult issues, which you frankly have hedged around yourself. One is

immigration. There is a fundamental split here between the Democrats and

Republicans. The Obama democratic plan is to find a pathway to

residency, long-term citizenship, for a substantial number of the many

millions of illegal immigrants in the US today. The Republican message

seems to be those people ultimately have to go. Now what is your

position? Should those people who have lived long-term in the US but

are still illegal immigrants, should they be given a pathway to

citizenship? I think I am going to disagree with your assumption. The

real problem is we are a country of laws in the US and we are also

country of immigrants. You think our unique it is the US began by people

going there -- howl. Other than if you are an American Indian you came

here from another place. Some in a dark part of history were forced to

come here. We didn't always get it right. We are a country of

immigrants and laws and some of the reasons why we continue to have so

many people who want to come, it is because we do have a legal system

that affords, hopefully, people to have more opportunity if they come

to the US. The problem has been there is a continuous amount of

illegal immigration. First and foremost that has to be addressed.

That is the easy bit. Any Cabinet and win applause by saying we will

be Feby border defences -- candidate. That is a given. I want

to know. Obama has a plan to give a pathway to citizenship for millions

of illegals. The Republican Party on the whole thing is it is outrageous.

No they don't. Practical politicians know that you can't import millions

and millions of people so what would you do? No they don't. Republicans

overwhelmingly as a party across the country support immigration reform

to try to resolve the issue. Now my position has always been, I did not

like what Barack Obama came up with, but instead I believed let's work

towards resolving the situation by starting with the easy win. Let's

start with the kids and so-called dreamers. And I tried to push on

that measure. And your party didn't like it because they thought you

were being too cosy. I believe that no one and certainly in the US we

have no history whatsoever of holding kids liable for their

parents' Mr Heath or illegal acts. So if a child was brought there is a

minor and knows no other place as home, of course we should welcome

them in and give them citizenship -- misdeeds. But again when I said it

the President said no we won't do it because we've got to do it all. Well

I told the President, I said look we have to start where we can agree and

I believe we can start with the kids. Another place we can start his

high skilled workers. You know there was a bipartisan agreement on that.

I want to move on but all I would say is your language isn't the

language of many in your party right now in immigration but let us go to

guns because it is important and we don't have much time. Do you support

tougher gun laws at the federal level? Tougher background checks and

rules to ensure that mentally ill people have no access to guns, yes

or no? Let me give you a personal experience I have had with a gun

issue and Lenny premise it by saying that look I know that the rest of

the world, the UK and elsewhere, really cannot identify with the cold

for Mormons we have in the US and a number of handguns that exist. We

come from a different standpoint. You won't change. We have a second

amendment to the Constitution that is well reported on, well researched

and actually well considered by our US... Written in the late 18th

century and you are in an era of assault rifles and automatic

weapons. You are happy for that constitutional right established in

the 18th century to be the way in which America does its business.

Lesson. It is what it is. The Supreme Court said it is in

individual right on firearms -- listen. That stipulate that and

let's stipulate that it is different from elsewhere in the world. But if

we are really concerned about reducing lives, I was going to tell

you my personal experience is there was a terrible mass shooting at

Virginia Tech. Obviously I am from Virginia. When I served in Congress

I had constituents children when they were killed in

this mass shooting. And while Virginia did in response was it

toughened up its laws requiring those in the mental health area to

report incidents is that good cause some concern into the database, the

federal database and what had happened was the information,

good as the information you put into it, so in Virginia

taken steps to make this states have not done that. The bottom line is

you post you get an a rating from politician in the US might be proud

to say I don't get an a rating from the

different culture, we have a constitution, second Amendment,

speaking to the issue in a different way than other places, I would then

asked the question if it is smart that there are rights to gun

ownership, is it smart to just allow the illegals to get the guns and not

allow those law-abiding citizens to have the right to those guns? That

is the issue and that is the context within which US policymakers are

working. It is different. I will hand it to you. Different than

anywhere else in the world. Most places in the world. But it is what

America is about. A final thought. I happen to be in that event the other

day where Donald Trump addressed us and he talked about respect. Respect

for the United States. He said Vladimir Putin right now looks at

the United States and has zero respect for Arrow leadership. Do you

looking at the party people in your party that leaders

like Vladimir Putin will respect if they win the White House? -- our.

Yes I do. And as you rightly said am behind Jeb Bush who would be a

tremendous world leader. Here that 6% and Donald Trump is that over 20.

Are you worried, what I am getting out, are you worried you don't

command the respect of the outside world? I am worried that Barack

Obama through his policies have promoted have put America in a

position that we have withdrawn from the international stage, that we

don't have the kind of respect from our allies nor do we instil the fear

that we should in our enemies. I am looking forward to the fact that in

a year from now we will have an election, a Republican, Jeb Bush,

will be elected as president and we will want once again go and say that

allies can trust us and believe our word, which hasn't been the case in

the red line in Syria incident which has brought on so much of what

Vladimir Putin has been about over the last two years. We will have a

president who can finally instil the fear in our foes. We will have to

revisit this conversation when the election is done because we are out

of time but Eric Cantor, thank you for being on HARDtalk. My pleasure.