Hage Geingob, President of Namibia HARDtalk

Welcome to HARDtalk. I am Sarah Montague.

Namibia is rich in minerals and gemstones so is relatively

prosperous with good economic growth. Yet it is one of the most

unequal societies in the world. There is extreme poverty with many

struggling to get enough food to survive. Hage Geingob declared war

on poverty and inequality when he became president in March this year.

Before that he had been Prime Minister for many of the 25 years

since independence. So, what difference can he make now?

Hage Geingob, welcome to HARDTalk. Thank you very much. For all of

Namibia's relative wealth, the statistics on poverty are fairly

alarming. A quarter of the population are living in poverty and

according to the UN, more than 40% of all the billions are

undernourished. -- Namibians. You declared war on poverty when he

became president and you set up a new ministry to eradicate poverty.

What's different is its making? Firstly, thankyou very much. -- What

difference is it making? You said that we are rich in minerals, but we

are poor. There is apartheid, there is inequality... When we got

independence we had to reconcile the two warring parties. You cannot take

from the rich and give it to the board. But I declared war when I was

elected on poverty. -- poor. Extraordinary thing is that the

employment rate now is pretty much the same it was at independence in

1990. I do think so. 28- 30% still. Yeah. The word unemployment...

Anybody who can have this and sell that is regarded as employed. In

Namibia, people are working for the white people. They want to be

employed by somebody. That is why anybody who does not have the

liberty to sell is classified as unemployed. -- ability. OK, well,

you, as I say, one of the things you did in order to get rid of the

inequality and poverty was to set up this new ministry. That is why I am

asking what's different is its making? It is early days, but what

difference is it making and is going to make? -- what difference. There

is a social pension. From 600 to 1000. That has made a big difference

already. That is about maintaining 7%. Maintaining for children dumped

by parents to older people. That has made a big difference to the

happiness of older people. It is already the. It is there for eight

months. -- there. We have set up the tone. We are drifting away from our

oneness. We are becoming tribal African nations. My aim is to

re-establish that we are one Namibia, one Nation. You talk about

setting the tone. -- nation. You were maybe the first Prime Minister

of Namibia. After years you came back again. What can you do now that

you cannot have done then? I set up the public service. I am not saying

you did nothing. We have a presidential system. By minister is

just working under the president. -- Prime Minister. Where you frustrated

by what you could not do? Not necessarily. We did what we could.

Namibia has a stake is now. -- Namibia is a state now. There is a

lot of hope that you can rejuvenate the country and make a difference.

But you also come from the political class that has been in place for a

long time. I am trying to establish and understand what you can do that

is new. We have done a lot. We have lifted 500 people out of poverty in

Namibia and we have done a lot to unite the people. And,

infrastructure has been built, roads, hospitals... That has been

done. Now, we will keep working on unity and infrastructure. I am

trying to build prosperity. So, it is more of the same. That is why I

am wondering... It is not supposed to be different. The wife and taking

from the blacks, the land... You a continuity? Of course. If you have

something good and you break it... We never hear about people fighting

in Namibia, we have peace, we have elections every year, that is

continuity. You have declared war on poverty. How do you defeated? Is it

possible to eradicate poverty? People are saying... -- defeat it We

have said we need to eradicate and even though some have said it is all

right to have poor. We could get rid of it one day. But we are saying,

let's first look at hunger. We are talking about basic income. We have

set up a food bank. We don't feel we need to give everyone $100 and so

on. We look to those who need it. All of those who come to us, we will

roll out our programme to them. The solidarity tax, those who are

wealthier will be taxed... We did not see solidarity tax. We talk

about the disparity you are talking about greatly yourself. Namibia is

the most unequal country in the world, you said to be so, how do we

narrowed the gap? I didn't say the most. -- you said. What happens with

the solidarity tax? I didn't say... I said we must do something. One of

the proposals was a tax dot the i's and just trying to find out... --

tax. -- I am just. One way is taxes. What do you savour? -- -- favour.

Taxes. Many are critical of what you are doing and say you should be

doing other things that the not building a new Parliament that costs

70 million American dollars. -- things.. You should focus on

unemployment and education. It has endowed. Firstly... -- been done.

Unemployment is still high. I did not build the Parliament. We are a

democracy. We need institutions in that. You must build them that you

can use for democracy. Parliament is a legislated position. It belongs to

all the parties. They can claim it is the. -- theirs. If they have

their own budgets, talk to the speaker about it. You are making the

point that because you are president you can tackle poverty. That is what

I am focusing on. What you can do. You do not like the phrase

solidarity tax, but will a tax on the wealthy big enough? I said, when

you are declaring war you use all at your disposal. -- be enough. Why is

everyone talking about his tax? Why's what you eat? -- Why? . --

What is it?. Let's talk about the settlements, the third of the

population, almost a third, is now in informal settlements. When the

Pope was in Nairobi he talked of the dreadful injustice of urban

exclusion, a new form of colonialism. He was talking about

that type of informal settlement as being inflicted by minorities who

cling to power and wealth and selfishly squander while growing

majorities are forced to flee to abandon makeshift shacks. Do you

think he is right? He is right about other countries, not Namibia. In

Namibia you should know there is apartheid. People who are not

allowed to move in their homeland. Now we have freedom. They can move

freely to settle anywhere. That is what is causing that. You cannot

grab them... You would ET first to say they are being pushed out. We

have a systematic approach. -- be the. He was also talking about those

who are wealthy and who can no longer see them, who are an opulent

society and in anaesthetised by wealth. -- society. You are

questioning my solidarity tax when I am trying to talk about that. That

is why I save all Namibians should care for the brothers. -- say. If

you can do something, care for them. So in a way, they could would have

been speaking about that he didn't go the. -- that. -- there. Eyelid in

York city, there are ghettos everywhere. -- I live in New. UNE

first Namibian leader to declare your wealth and you have shown your

wealth. -- You are the. Your network is in the region of 7 billion US

dollars. -- net worth. It showed the difference between those who are

wealthy and does one not. -- those who are not. I want people to show

how much money they have. I was not obliged to do that. Instead of

welcoming you are questioning and. That is what it seems like. -- it.

What is 7 million? It is a question... That his assets, not

cash. I bought the land when I came here. Land that was stolen from me.

I had to buy it. I would have grabbed it, but I bought it. You

will know there are other politicians in Namibia is saying, it

is all well and good you can do this when you have made your wealth, how

do we make ours? It was declared. How do you know? Do you expect your

fellow politicians to declare in the months ahead? I cannot judge them.

This is... Firstly, I say we must think of everybody. I have been

working for 25 years. It is hypocrisy. They are saying, we do

not make money. If you steal it, yes. If you have it, it is your

money. Declare it, that is what I am saying. Everybody should be public.

And if they don't do it voluntarily? You say we do not have a load yet,

to introduce one's it should be required. You would like a little. I

have first set the example. You have said there is pressure for land

reform because of the apartheid years. The pace of land reform to

not happen at the speedy you would have liked. There is tremendous

pressure from groups like affirmative repositioning who are

calling for mass appropriation in July in the summer. You hope that

off, but you do need to deliver on land reform. There are people who do

know I piece. -- like a piece. They are happy if there would be chaos,

and there are many supporting that group. I asked them what their

problem was. The issue is known by all of us. We know the causes and

history of that. We disagree. You do not go to war because of that. What

is the answer? Do they have a case, and you have even said, then need

for land is genuine. Yes, but I also said people who own land, claiming

stolen land because they are millions and were born there. --

Nibley beings. -- Nibley -- Namibians. CU will protect those

farmers who have lent now, irrespective of what happened in

generations past. How do you satisfy the likes of affirmative response,

who say we need land? They need land to build houses. We are doing that.

We have been doing that. We are clearing the area. If you look at

our manifesto, it is there. I pointed that out, we are together on

this, but we must have law and order. You said it is easy to

destroy what you did not yield, but when you are involved in the

struggle, it is not easy. Do you think the young are too hotheaded

about the issue? No, we are together, not against them will stop

Namibians are moving together. But we will do things in an orderly way

into not destroyed our piece. Let's turn to China, the city is the third

brightest investor after Germany and the United States in Namibia. --

third largest. Someone who lived at the Chinese employment practices

in's found that the think tank in the country said China is frequently

paying as little as one third of the legal wage. For some, this feels

like a new form of colonialism. We went to talk to the Chinese. I went

and talked to them. We do not know what is happening with your

companies. They are owed paying outdoors -- they are not paying

people a proper wage. There are some private companies who go there, so

you have nose. Kicks laws. There are good and bad Chinese. The same way

they think they're out good and bad Namibians. We talk to them and they

have improved. They have improved? We talk to them. Is it a matter of

enforcing the laws. There are others as well. Is it down to enforcing the

laws? The Chinese are not worse than anyone else? They weren't worse

until we talk to them. And now they are not worse? I don't know. Others

are doing the wrong things still. But the Foreign Minister of China

came and talked in English and announced that they must obey

Namibian laws. It is for us to enforce it. Will you now in force

the laws? It is all well and good having a low, but you must enforce

it. Isn't that important? If you want to tackle the poverty we are

talking about, that is one way to do it. I know how to do it. We will do

it our way. People think you are being too sympathetic to the Chinese

because you are so dependent on them. That is not true. You would be

happy to enforce the laws? We did not complain about that. The Chinese

do not have all the property. But we do this in a peaceful way. People

will not be happy about that. The British especially. So the British

who are there not... Are they not paying the minimum wage? Why not

enforce the world, then? All of the laws are in force. According to the

key Namibian newspaper, in January, there was a letter sent from

Namibian's and buses to China to the Foreign Minister talking about a

Chinese delegation that was visiting the country to find a way forward to

build a naval base in Walvis Bay. Will China build a naval base in

Namibian? If the Chinese come, the Americans are asking the same thing.

Is Namibia going to allow China to build a naval base? If the

government decides. But we're not there yet. You are jumping the gun.

The plan is to have the naval architects and clinical staff have a

feasibility study. That will go ahead? I do not know anything about

it. I'm talking about principle. The Americans are interested as well.

Are you saying you don't know if there is a proposal for China to

build an ever base in Namibian? The proposal never came to us. I heard

about it. I know about it. In that letter, they talked about the

Chinese delegation coming after match the 21st this year, which was

the money he became president. -- the month you became. Do you believe

the letter? I do not believe it. Not only the Chinese, the Americans came

as well. But do they want to build a naval base? I don't know, but they

want something. Would you mind? The principal of China leading a naval

base in Namibian, do you mind? I don't know anything about that. If

they were to do it in a sovereign country like Namibian, what would be

your consent? You would not have a consent? No, that would be yours's

it is my country, it is not you, it is me. How does it affect you? How

would it affect the people of maybe -- Namibia? It is for Namibians, not

you. Should Namibians be aware of a proposal...? It will be done by

democracy. There will be no secrets. There will be no secrets. So they

have not asked yet? The moment they do, you will go public with it? Yes.

President Geingob, thank you for coming on programmer. Thank you. --

HARDtalk.