Nir Barkat, Mayor of Jerusalem HARDtalk

Welcome to HARDtalk. Israel declares gruesome to be it undivided

capital, but the physical evidence inside the city points to a

different reality -- Jerusalem. -- is a city of checkpoints, barriers,

and tension. My guest is Nir Barkat, a self-made tech millionaire tipped

for a big future in the Likud party. He talks about turning Jerusalem

into a global city, hosting 10 million tourists a year. How

credible is his vision of Jerusalem's future?

Mayor Nir Barkat in Jerusalem, welcome to HARDtalk. Let me start by

reflecting on what you said when you came to become mayor more than seven

years ago. You said you would save Jerusalem. But if we as outsiders

look at the city today, it seems more tense, for fear, and full of

division than ever before. Let me give you the facts. Tourism has

moved from 2 million to almost 4 million tourists a year. Jerusalem

has become one of the top ten most attractive site for tourists. 99% of

the tourists go back home reference of all. Our crime rates, terrorism

and murder together, are ASBO is London. We are one of the safest

cities in the world. -- are as safe as London. People don't understand

the dynamics of our city, but I am optimistic as to our future. We have

challenges and are in the forefront of another wave of terror that we

have to learn from in how to manage it, and we are managing it, but the

vision and understanding of the role of Jerusalem has not changed. I am

optimistic. The recipe is to avoid watching the TV news to be

optimistic about Jerusalem? You see that's Jerusalem is the key cockpit

of the current round of violence between Muslim Arabs and Jews. We

have seen more stabbing attacks, more of the general violence in's

than anywhere else. -- in Jerusalem. I want to emphasise the statistics.

If you put all of the crime together, we are as safe as London.

Get some perspective. Just north of us, 2000 people were killed in Syria

and Iraq, and look what is happening in Gaza and Lebanon. Jerusalem and

Israel in general is a safe haven in the middle east. Let me stop you. I

appreciate your effort to make things sound positive, you are the

mayor who in the autumn of last year advised all Jerusalem Jewish

residents to carry a pistol. What kind of message is that? That is

something that is hard to understand. In America and Europe,

considering only 3% of Israel is carry guns, and the ones who do are

well trained. They are only professionals who do 30 days of

reserve per year. When they get engaged, we know how to engage in

combat. The reality is over one third of the incidents where

terrorists were neutralised, it was not made by police, it was made by

civilians who know how to use their weapons. This is an advantage we

have that is difficult to understand in the Western world. The reality is

when you have lone wolf attackers with knives and you don't know where

they come from, there is no intelligence about it, distribution

of arms, people are trained, and thank God. It takes less than 62

seconds when there is a terror attack for somebody, maybe police or

civilians, to engage and eliminate the threat. You have personal

experience of this, because not so long ago you witnessed an assailant

with a knife undertaking an attack on the streets of Jerusalem. The

bodyguards and you rush to the scene. Your bodyguard to a gun and

you were one of the people who apprehended the salmon. Given that

experience and no shot was never fired in that situation, how do you

feel about senior Israeli politicians saying that in his view,

if anyone was seen to pull out a knife or even a screwdriver, to

quote him, don't hesitate, shoot to kill. Do you think that is the right

and responsible message to send? I will explain. We agree. In the case

that I faced a terrorist with a knife in his hand, he dropped the

knife. If somebody dropped the knife and can be caught, we do that. But

if that same person charged me, imagine yourself somebody comes to

you with a knife and wants to kill you. You kill them first. There is

no time to think. It is all instinct and what you were trained and told

to do. If the person is unarmed, you jump them like I did. It goes well

together. We are very ethical people. The Israelis, the Israeli

army, we understand the ethics better than anyone else. If somebody

is not a threat any more, he will be taken and treated in a hospital.

Sometimes he goes to the hospital in Jerusalem NUC guitarist and the

victim next to each other. -- you see the terrorist and the victim.

The reality is... Do you think it is wise for politicians, and you are a

politician, to be pronouncing what they think citizens should do when

in fact Israel has laws that govern what can and can't be done. It is

not for you as politicians to inflame emotions and in this sort of

way when the law in Israel is quite straightforward? First, what I am

saying is it is differently part of the role. The police instructions

are the same. If somebody comes to kill you, or somebody in the street,

you engage and eliminate the threat. You killed them. But if he is

caught, and is not a hazard any more but he has stopped, then you take

them in like anybody else. It is very clear under more. -- under law.

People expect to hear my opinion is what we should do when terrorists

come. We should defend ourselves. What is happening today in Israel

and in Jerusalem is global. It is not local, it is a global issue. I

advise you to learn how we deal with are situations. We are doing it

quite well. It becomes global unfortunately. I lived in Jerusalem

for several years. It has changed a lot, not least because there are new

security barriers, new checkpoints in place. This idea that Jerusalem

is an open and undivided city is patently not true. It is more

divided by armed checkpoints and the security wall and everything else.

Let me give you some facts. The security fence does its job and it

does eliminate people coming in and hurting people inside Israel. It has

been there over 15 years. It is a division. It is a myth that it is an

undivided Israel. That is not true. The security fences and everything

in them is the United city. That is not factually correct. There are

tens of thousands of Palestinians who are on the other side of the

security wall in ayes. Indeed, and we have parts of Jerusalem inside

the fence. The fence is not 100% in line with the border, and I agreed

that is a challenge. But Intel only in the city -- internally, which is

the majority of the city, people can go freely to place a slack. ! Freely

from place to face. We have a pic of terror, we put in the box to prevent

more killing. -- roadblocks. As of today, there is only one roadblock

in a neighbourhood challenging security. We have talked about

security, but let's talk about what you raised in public recently. You

said I am a strong believer in profiling. Profiling keeps the

citizens of Jerusalem safe, you said. What do you mean by profiling

and who are you profiling? The security forces of Israel know their

business extremely well. If they think there are extreme Muslims or

radical Jews, they will sit on them to make sure and prevent people from

creating terror attacks. It goes for extremists from all sides. We have

just heard as recently as this week that the security forces were able

to catch the extreme Jews... But with respect, I appreciate that

answer, but I don't think anybody in the outside world believes the

security forces spent as much time profiling and seeking out Jewish

extremists as it does was an Arab extremists. I am struck by what the

Israeli minister said the other day when he went to the site of the

latest terror attack in Tel Aviv where two people were killed by a

gunman. He talked about on claves. He clearly meant Arab communities,

with was the most -- was propaganda. This was not pointing to individual

that endangers, he was tainting an entire community. -- enclaves. Do

you do the same? In Jerusalem, I have a very good relationship with

local leadership in Arab neighbourhoods. It is the community

council leaders, business people, school principals, people in

welfare. We work with them on a daily basis. Do you disown the words

of your own Prime Minister, and then you have always supported? In the

words of the newspaper, do you think what he said was very close to

outright racism? Don't put words in his or my mouth. Let me share what

is happening on the ground. The majority of the Muslim population in

Jerusalem want to move their life. They are the first to suffer when

riots and terror attacks happen. -- leave their life. They lose

business. They asked the help and I help them as much as I can. We need

to focus on the radical people that have bad intentions, that I moved to

terror. We have to isolate those bad people, and unfortunately, the

majority of the bad people, which are a minority, to decide on some of

the Arab neighbourhoods. But if they reside in Jewish neighbourhoods, we

will go after them as well. It is about King Smart. You need to

differentiate between good and bad people, with the be Muslims or Jews.

-- being smart. White you think there is so much hate in was on

committees in Jerusalem? Why'd you think those feelings exist? -- was

on -- was one communities. This violence was incited by radical was

once who told lies. It will not happen. Our national government, our

mayors and police are dedicated. Unfortunately, in social media, many

lies were told. We see how many young teenagers believe those lies,

and God forbid something happens to the Temple Mount. Unfortunately,

again and again, the national government and ourselves are telling

them we are committed to maintaining status quo. Over three million

Muslims go to the Temple Mount. And 12,000 Jews. It does not change and

it will not change. The status quo will not change. Unfortunately, they

all think there will be change, and we have to work very hard... You

have raised one area of tension, which is access to the holiest of

places for Muslims. You call it the Temple Mount. Clearly that has been

a factor. But I spoke not so long ago to one of the most senior

Palestinian negotiators, close to the top of the Palestinian

leadership. He almost cried with frustration when I put it to him

that Israelis see ideological reasons behind the incitement as you

put it of young Palestinian men, don't they understand as long as

Israel refuses to engage on the question of settlements, the

question of every mystic negotiation of a two state solution, these

people, the anger, the hate will continue. Do you not get that?

No, I don't. I understand he is trying to politicise the situation,

but this type of violence was created on a lie. I am personally

committed, as is the national government, not to change that. I

also want to tell you that he does not speak on behalf of Jerusalem.

Our independent polls understand that the city would do much better

being part of a united city, the majority do not believe in dividing

the city. It is against the DNA of Jerusalem. The Arabs injuries will

have by far a better quality of life than anywhere else in the Middle

East -- in to wrestle. Even your claims on the city, you should not

be comparing them against the situation in Syria. You should be

comparing them with lives of Israelis lucky enough to live in Tel

Aviv or West Jerusalem. If you look at the statistics, 75% of East

Jerusalem residents live under the poverty line. One third do not have

access to water. Your rhetoric about a united Jerusalem is nonsense. For

these people, life is second class in your city. First of all, not all

your facts are correct. We have problems on the west side as well.

The poverty is not restricted to the Muslims... Oh, come on. The poverty

figures in East Jerusalem dwarf that in the West. There are other places

in the Middle East... Point is that you say everyone is treated the same

in Jerusalem and that is why Arabs are happy to be subjected to

annexation. That is just not true. I think you are putting the wrong

facts on the table. The relative perspectives I could show,

demonstrate that we are getting better each year. When I came into

office seven years ago, only 30% of the residents felt we were in the

right direction, now it is 50%. We can demonstrate a better schooling,

infrastructure, more jobs. What is important to the Arab residents, we

are making better, not worse. What you haven't mentioned are things to

do with housing, building permits. Even now, thousands of housing plans

have been sanctioned. By your government. At the same time, we see

that 14,000 Palestinians have had their residency revoked since 1967.

It is almost impossible or most Palestinians to get permission to

build housing on empty land in East Jerusalem. The reality is that they

are second-class citizens. First of all, let me give you and other point

of reference. The number of Arab residents into Rhuddlan is growing

faster than the Jewish residents. That is because more of them... Let

me finish my sentence. The reality is that the municipality is totally

committed to increasing the number of permits we give. It is growing in

absolute numbers and relatives numbers. -- relative. The land is

not registered, we don't always know if he is feeling his neighbour 's

land. We are overcoming these legal challenges, and I can demonstrate

power. We have on average over 1000 new permits a year... -- demonstrate

power. Are you telling me that the UN and others, who have looked at

the statistics, over 3000 permits are given to Jews and Arabs... That

is plain wrong. The Arab population is growing faster. That has nothing

to do with what I just quoted to you. The population figures depend

on birth rate. I am talking about new construction. The difference is

that on the Arab side, most of the Arab land is private. They build

their own homes. They are scaling faster than the Jewish population.

Land owned by the National government is sold to the highest

bidder. Anybody can buy a house, nobody knows what religion they are

when they buy the land. Israel is committed to enabling solutions for

all people. The majority of Arabs build it on private land. Israel is

dished out to the highest bidder. All the statistics are very

politicised. They are, and the statistics you are using are very

different from the ones that the UN are using. And those that Israeli

human rights groups use. As Mira Jerusalem, Doctor -- Mayor of

Jerusalem, unless you add other Israeli politicians recognise that

there has to be a sharing of the sovereignty of Jerusalem for a two

state solution to what, if you aren't prepared to accept that then

there can never be a meaningful peace negotiation, Tanah? Are you

comfortable with the position that you and your city are in -- can

there? We must focus on the common denominator. 3000 years ago, kings

and profits walked here. 1600 years before Muslims came into the world,

bear with me... The fact is that Jerusalem will never be divided. Let

us not go back 1600 years, let us talk about recent history. The last

prime ministers, all were prepared as realistic, pragmatic politicians,

to accept that they would have to be a deal with the Palestinians over

Jerusalem. Some shared sovereignty and shared position of the holy

places, why won't you? The chapters are open to... Answer my question.

Don't answer your own question. I disagree, I think it is a bad deal.

Don't do a bad deal. What we need to do is make sure we can function

better, as we are doing. Listen to all the critics in the world, and no

we are making progress year after year -- churches. I am committed to

all of my residence, Muslims, Christians and Jews. We are getting

better. Far better than our region and what people put on the wall as a

bad deal. Jerusalem will never be divided. People talk of you as the

possible next leader of the Likud party. They say it needs a new

spirit. Is that your way of saying to Benjamin Netanyahu, it is time

for you to move aside, I am taking over? No, I want to finish my term.

I have not decided whether to run for a third term. In any case, I

will support Benjamin Netanyahu and the Likud party, I believe in their

strategies. It is my home and I want to grow. I want to have my home in

the Likud party. It seems that Benjamin Netanyahu is trying to

ensure that his grip on party and power continues. He may be trying to

freeze you out. How do you feel about that? I have no problem with

those decisions. I will support Benjamin Netanyahu and the party and

I am focusing on Jerusalem's future. I am very happy. I think what you

hear at in the news that make here in the news is not the reality on

the ground -- hear in the news. Thank you for joining me.

The rest of the night will be unsettled.

Low pressure sitting on top of the UK, generating some heavy

Low pressure of most concern in the North is the area