Radek Sikorski HARDtalk


Radek Sikorski

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Welcome to HARDtalk, I'm Stephen Sackur.

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You know things are bad when people are constantly telling you not to

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Patrick. Panic. After the Brexit vote,

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a vote, n awful lot of powerful people

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of the European Union have joined the 'don't panic' chorus.

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How confident can we be of the UK's future, or indeed the EU's?

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my guess is Radek Sikorski. -- my guest today is former Polish Foreign

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Minister, Radek Sikorski. Could British voters have

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kickstarted the Radek Sikorski, welcome to HARDtalk.

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Hello. You said in the run-up to the Brexit referendum, the entire world

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will grasp in disbelief if Britain votes to Leave. Are you still

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grasping. I think that prediction has borne fruit. I am amazed. That

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quotes are just too may bat perhaps you and other European leaders were

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a bit complacent. You assumed the British electorate wouldn't do this

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quiz yellow -- gasping? --? You said in your introduction that this could

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be the beginning of the unravelling of the EU, and a agree that cannot

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be excluded. That would be terrible for Britain. And it would be

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terrible to have a united Europe at written's exclusion, which is

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something they tried to prevent four 500 years. Not a good place to be

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in. When you say this could herald the unravelling of the EU, it makes

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me think, the European Union must have been a very fragile project is

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be doubled if the departure of one nation State could cause it to

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collapse? It is not the European Union which has voted to expel

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Britain, Britain has voted to Leave. The first duty of the politicians of

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the continent is to save the remaining 27 union members. What

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sort of message are you sending to the other member states and the

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wider world about the strength and coherence of Europe when you and

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Donald -- Donald Tusk say things like the fact that the entire trans-

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Atlantic committee will become significantly weaker. Is that true?

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We believe that the European Union was better with Britain in it than

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what you will get now. But you have made your decision, you have to take

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care of union and we of hours. We will talk at length about your

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views, but I am interested in your take off how would you now see the

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political leadership in Britain -- ours. We believe David Cameron will

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be in office for another three months, he cannot be the captain of

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the ship as a rack that is negotiated. But in hours from now,

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he is going to have to front up to the other members of the EU

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nationstates. How much anger is there directed towards him quiz

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yellow I would not like to be David Cameron, because he called an

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unnecessary referendum -- him? There was unfair criticism in his party of

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the European Union in including under his leadership. There were

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decades of misinformation of the British public about how the EU

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works, and those have borne fruit. When you are describing a politician

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in those terms, you have to conclude that it was fantastically

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irresponsible and selfish? Well, is thought he would not to fill the

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promise of the referendum because I don't think he thought he would win

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the next general election. This has been a castrated move of historical

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proportions. Another thing happening in Europe right now is a great deal

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of vilification aimed at Boris Johnson, if anybody was the leader

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of the Leave campaign, this was him. The spokesman for Jean-Claude

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Juncker characterised, alongside Donald Trump and Marine Le Pen, as

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the horror scenario for the Western world. Is that a helpful thing for

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the European leaders to be saying right now, given the role that Boris

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Johnson is almost certain to play? There have been many things said

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about the European Union in this country. But these are the facts

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that Britain is having to deal with. It is a British internal problem.

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How tactful of you. You know these men quite well. You are an

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experienced European politician and you have followed this campaign very

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closely because you know British culture very well. I would like

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characterise how you feel, for example, Boris Johnson handled

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his... I feel extremely disappointed and with a sense of foreboding about

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what has happened. They did things that I would like them not to have

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done, and it is a terrible shame. Irresponsible? Look, this is...

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Let's talk about the consequences of what has happened. We will, but one

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final question. You are almost uniquely placed, you are a European

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politician who knows Boris Johnson extremely well. He is hotly tipped

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to be Britain 's next Prime Minister. Do you think he is the

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right man for the job? It is not up to me to make that sort of a

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judgement. You must have an opinion. Europe will deal fairly with whoever

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your constitutional system throws up as the next leader, just as we will

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deal fairly with the decision you have taken. It seems to me that

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Europe is split, and here is how we get to how Europe will handle the

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Brexit. Even on the discussion as to when Britain will actively trigger

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Article 50, there are diverging views. Martin Schultz, the Speaker

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of the European Parliament, has said it has to be now. He has said it has

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to be the moment when Britain triggers Article 50. I understand

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that some politicians in Europe would like this period of

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uncertainty to be as short as possible. Legally, Britain is in the

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lead on this. It is up to Britain. I understand not even your government

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but the Parliament to have to activate Article 50 and the process

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of leaving the EU. Coming back to this point about anger and to an

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extent, punishment. The French Foreign Minister said, and he seemed

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to be making a direct intervention into which is politics, he said a

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new Prime Minister must be designated within a few days. Some

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in Europe have said, we are fed up with Britain and they cannot dictate

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the terms of the Brexit negotiation. Europe will start to dictate to

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Britain. Do you think that is right? You are asking me to get involved in

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an emotional discussion, I think that is unhelpful because Britain is

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an important country that we want to have a friendly relationship with.

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Let us deal with what has happened as competently and friendly as a

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divorce can be. You are more of the Angela Merkel School of thought, we

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have to recognise Britain and we need to give them some time and

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space to figure it out before we start making too many demands or

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telling them how things are going to be? We are dealing with very

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important issues for millions of people. It is unhelpful... Some of

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the emotions that have played in the referendum I think were misplaced.

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Let's try to do with facts rather than emotions. Do you think the

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European Union has a coherent plan for the post- British membership?

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Europe doesn't need a plan, because we haven't done anything. You have

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decided to Leave, you must have a plan. With all due respect, surely

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you must have a plan to avoid the EU unravelling? That is EU business.

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That is why the EU leaders are already agreeing to meet without

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Britain. Your commission has already resigned. The shapers before the

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European Council are meeting already. It is already at less than

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it was in the European Council. It is, and yet it is also a lame-duck

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member of the European Union? Politically, you are out, presently,

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you white still in. But you are presumed to be outside of the club.

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You were not only a member of the club, you are a member of the

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committee. You thought the memberships were too high, is what

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some of the new members were a bit common, and you decided to Leave. As

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a Polish politician who has long experienced in government and the EU

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forum, how do you feel about the absence of Britain? Poland on the

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whole has been a very close ally of Britain on many issues. In my

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limited way, I was doing whatever I could to persuade people to stay,

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because you were a crucial voice for transatlantic relations, stabilising

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the link for Liberal politics and economics. You were a very important

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place to the balance of power internally in the EU. That will be

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gone now and it is regrettable. That is why I regret this decision. I

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want to come back to that and to the areas that you care about like

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defence and security, but first the economy. There has been a lot of

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talk about what will happen to the British economy. It seems, as of

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today, that war is Johnson believes it will be relatively

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straightforward for written to, in his phrase, negotiate full access to

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the European single market as part of a Brexit negotiation. Do you

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think he is right? That is an aspiration, not a plan. In other

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words, you are saying, I have left the club, I am a member of the

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public, but I would quite like to use the facilities. The committee

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will meet and we will consider the offer. It is going to be very hard.

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The Norway option... That includes freedom of movement of Labour.

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Talking of Boris Johnson and his fellow Leave campaigners... Let's

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get real. We voted for racks that, you in the European Union export 100

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billion euros of produce to the UK. We are so much bigger and more

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important to you than Norway. Don't quote to us a deal you did with

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Norway. Be realistic that you want a deal with us -- Brexit. We do, but

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we can trade under the WTO regime, you can trade under the customs

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union like Turkey, you can have bilateral agreements like

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Switzerland, you can be in the economic area. Britain needs to

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propose what it wants, because it and took the initiative to Leave. --

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Britain. Boris Johnson says the negative

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consequences of Brexit have been widely overdone and the upside is

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being ignored. As the German CBI reminded us, they will continue to

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have free trade and access to the

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