Okechukwu Enelamah, Minister of Industry, Trade and Investment, Nigeria HARDtalk

'Change', Nigerians have been told to tell themselves,

Change is certainly needed: the economy is contracting

for the first time in 25 years, in the north east famine

is threatened, and even the President chides Nigerians that

too many are dishonest, indolent and corrupt.

Okechukwu Enelamah, the Minister for Trade,

wants to break his country's dependence on oil.

But with foreign investors pulling out and blaming hostile policies,

Thank you for being with us. President Muhammadu Buhari took his

time to appoint you and his ministers. It must have been

frustrating to see the economy begin to struggle at the government

sitting on its hands? First, thank you for having met stop I think, for

us, we viewed it as a major opportunity. That is something we

promise ourselves to do for a long time. A crisis is too great an

opportunity to waste. In terms of ridding ourselves of dependence on

oil, diversifying our economy, sources of revenue and foreign

exchange. Clearly, our work is cut out for us and we are hard at it.

The reality is it would have been easier it had started sooner. From

July, 2015, sometime after the change of government, about its

companies have closed, 100,000 workers have in late. There is a

question the intention and good but this process has been delayed and in

the meantime the government has taken some hopeless decision, for

example, foreign investors fleeing after decisions by the Federal bank.

Let me say that for the President, he wanted to appoint the ministers

having understood first what he was getting into, round pegs in round

holes and in hindsight, I believe he made the right decision. This is a

journey and even though it looks like a long one after one year or

so, it is a relatively short time in terms of nationbuilding. The

economic policies, monetary, fiscal, trade, we needed to bring them in

alignment and where we started from was a currency which was fixed at

that currency is where we started from and, frankly, we had to make

decisions subsequently... If you would have done that, a few months

earlier when UN office, that is the criticism from business. Let's talk

about the future. Companies investing in emerging countries say

Nigeria needs to diversify the economy away from yours. What is

yours? I agree completely. Our recipe is simple. But one which is

tested and true. That is something I interested in. The key starting

point is making it a lot easier to do business in our country. We need

the right environment. I go back to Nigeria in 19 98th having scored and

work abroad. We have been talking about the environment. We are

committed to deliver on our promise. We are talking about making it

easier to do business, removing constraints and increasing the cost

of doing business. About policies, we are talking about them more

predictably and more transparently. The next thing, in terms of

industrial policy, to be highly if. -- selective. There was already an

industrial policy that was well prepared. Well documented, and our

commitment as a government is to make sure we implement it. Rather

than just change policy abruptly. It took about investment and change

that you economy is essentially still reliant on oil at a time when

oil prices have fallen and there is no sign of them significantly

recovering, never mind damaged pipelines, vandalism and other

things. How do you get an economy away from its dependence on one

resource that has been the source of so much of its wealth. Long? There

is an expression that says, we need oil to diversify away from oil. We

are not against oil. We need to do everything possible to rebuild the

oil economy, making sure the vandalism stops,... You do, the

Federal budget 2.2 million barrels per day was going to be produced but

because of these attacks, it is down to 1.56 million stop you already

argued to have less money and a recession as well eating away at the

productive part of the economy and private sector. We do need to

rebuild the oil economy and we are working actively with private sector

players and oil companies to do that fool 's top also working with

communities where the oil is produced to better understand. We

all lose, frankly, if we do not take care of the resources and

infrastructure. We also need to take advantage of the oil price

environment we are in. We import a lot of things. We have only one shot

at export. That is to skewed. That is what the versification is all

about, foreign exchange and resources for the government and

country. The former vice president things this focus on oil is still

paralysing. We have constant complaints about oil and they tend

to divert from challenges we need to face. The economic model simply does

not work. It is not rocket science. My strong view it is about

implementation of a few things. I will tell you two or three that are

central. Micro economic policies. The context in which to play. That

context needs to give people reasonable assurances around

policies which have to do with trade, investment and so on. The

next thing that is important is that the government should be an enabler

and a helper is not an adversary... Bike in the teeth of recession is

government publishing companies? A list of 41 products that if people

import them, they are not allowed to have access to foreign exchange?

That is an example of a classic dilemma. Hang on, before we get onto

the dilemma, what is the point of this list? Indian insects?

Toothpicks? Is somebody else in porting them? Basically, Nigeria

wants to produce more of what it consumes... But do you really do

that by coming up with the least that if you bought these things, we

will punish you in the hope that another company will produce them

instead? The intention is not to punish... Are you going to scrap

that list? Let me finish, if you let me finish you will find your answers

questions will be answered. Our intention... There are unintended

consequences. At this look at raw materials. As a government, we

identified those things which are raw material to make sure to stop

them coming into the country. Those raw materials would disappear but do

you still think it right for government to direct the economy

this way, to stop these things coming in? My sense is that a better

policy will be to create the right incentives for those things you do

not want imported to stop coming in, Paris all whatever way. Let me make

the point again. -- tariffs or whatever other way. Most people like

to come back and think they are geniuses but the process of building

an economy is very delicate. That flexibility, the willingness to make

corrections until you get where you want to be. President Muhammadu

Buhari has been commemorating the anniversary of the countries

Independent and he delivered a speech in which he said, Nigeria has

changed beyond belief internationally. Investors from all

over the world are falling over themselves to come and do business

in Nigeria. Is that your experience? There are two point find

interesting. It is absolutely true the Nigerian international standard

has improved. The election was much followed and we are grateful to God

for that. Secondly, the President has made it a point of duty, really,

to work on our standard abroad. The second thing which is frankly our

responsibility and I accept responsibility as a minister, with

other members, is to attract investment. Nigeria has good

investment fundamentally but we need to... The rest of the world falling

over themselves seems to stand in direct contrast saying that foreign

investment has nearly dried up. Figures released in September, it is

down 30% compared to last year. Capital coming in down 74.5%. As a

former banker put it, it is spooking the international community. They

are surprised nobody is investing in anything real? Investors hate

uncertainty. Capital is risk averse and generally shy and the truth is

Nigeria has gone through a turbulent experience and no investor wants to

take the risk. What we need to do as a government in the to create

reassurances and sent a strong signal. You need to understand that

they hailed the president coming in. They stopped investment ahead of the

election. When he came in they waited to see what he is policies

are, and some are still waiting. We believe that Nigeria as an

investment case is still credible but we need to take responsibility

to make sure these investors when they invested their investment are

safe and long-term. Change against with me is what the president says.

It is as much about personal as economic behaviour. In a speech he

gave, he said honesty, integrity, hard work, have given way in the

main to dishonesty, indolence, unbridled corruption and widespread

impunity. Have you seen that in Nigeria needs to get back to where

we aspire to be, a place that we are proud of. Those views are not

controversial. The point of the President is that those values are

collective responsibility. The government will hand down values,

traditional values. There is no society where, you know, values are

not appointed by the government insiders cited. I think the point

the president is making is that we as Nigerians, the civil society,

business, government, should accept that these values are the one that

we aspire to and these are values we want to see our country built on.

And anticorruption group said that Nigeria needs to change but it needs

to start with the leadership in the right area, setting the right

example. That is our past. That is why we have a leader that you would

not argue that this leadership does not set an example. President

Buhari, is accepted in terms of his integrity. We believe in the power.

You may believe in the power of example but look at the specific

demand. Why does the Nigerian government need 11 aircraft in a

recession? Why do they have capital expenditure without a project? Those

are two very specific things. Basically, the point with the

aircraft, you are talking about where we're coming from. Sell them

off. That is an option. How many do you think you need? Do you think 19

is too many? I have many questions about the budget. And then the

second point I wanted to make is that when you talk about $400

billion cut from our budget that is frankly for the things we need to

do, government providing that is not enough. We have a real issue, for

the time it takes for issues to translate to visible projects and

results, that is common. I believe that. It is a matter of time. Let me

ask you directly then about allegations you have faced. Claims

that currency was transferred out of Nigeria illegally and motion laid

before Parliament which said that five banks were involved in the

alleged transfers of the transport minister was that among the people

used to help repatriate the funds. Were you? It was one of the

companies that came in in 2001. It came in with other companies. The

process was successful and we have had a telecom revolution. It has

done well for Nigeria and itself. Importantly also to investors. I

happen to have been the CEO of one of the companies that attracted

investment. It is a very good story but every market, as you know, when

you have a successful story people want to know if we did adore

legitimately or was there something wrong? I can assure you that it is

very successful. You did not transfer money illegally out of the

country? Absolutely. When the dividends are taken out of the

country by shareholders would dividends. I and the company was not

in a position to deal with that. The chief executor of the country told

is that those allegations made against the company were put in a

motion before Parliament. The essence of this seems to be this

contention, as you say, because of your involvement. President Buhari

delayed appointing ministers because it wanted to affect their competence

and honesty. Did you talk about this? My sense is that you have now

hit nail on the head. Even you if it is credible, I tell you that we have

clean hands when we present the Nigeria we want to see. Did he ask

you about your involvement? There is nothing wrong with my involvement in

NTN. He did not need to ask me about it. It is just one company that goes

about its business. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NTN.

And what about your relationship? That is the allegation at the

Centre. I was an investor myself. There is nothing wrong with having

investments. It could be argued that this is more about incompetence than

mismanagement, that the company did not have the paperwork to prove it

had brought the similar amount money into the country. The problem is

that reinforces suspicion amongst some Nigerians that if you have

money, the rules do not apply. Banks think they do not need paperwork.

This is a valuable company and we can just move money around, the

rules do not apply. I don't think so. My sense is that NTN went

through the normal process. They were very successful. Any number of

groups have questioned our success but it is important to the economy.

We need to keep our investors and when you invest in Nigeria,

investors are point of entry. It is a point about taking money out. That

is why two airlines, one of them the Spanish airline Iberia, have decided

to stop flying to Nigeria because they cannot take their money out. If

you have in environment, wouldn't it be difficult to attract investors?

Let us not kid ourselves. There will be times when you need to create

liquidity, more foreign exchange. The key point I am making, however,

is that the long-term potential remained fundamentally attractive. I

argue that many airlines have a long-term vision, many of them have

categorically... You want to persuade them back? Those two may

not come back but there are many, many more still there. This is

temporary. Certainly hope so. There is problem is getting foreign

country and see coming into the country. Many factory owners

consider the hacks as too hard currency difficult and can only

important women in on the black market. Nigeria at most of its money

from oil and spread across the rest of the economy. There is no other

country in the world, maybe a few others, in general what has happened

is that it is liberalised and you allow an adequate supply and demand.

That is what we are creating. We are creating a moral market. You may

find it inconvenient, it is certainly sustainable. That is what

we are doing we want to create a stable economy with inadequate

supply of foreign exchange including from the private sector, not just

depending on the government to hand out exchange, currency. And getting

off the black market in the process. Exactly. I just wonder if the

President is beginning to lose patients with the progress. The

voice of America was recently told that they need better judicial

services. The three arms of government, the judiciary, that

legislate if... That is the frustration of a man who was elected

president was not once a military dictator. That would have been much

easier. In other words, it is the same democratic engagement. It is

something you must accept, it is something you need to accept with

all the checks and balances. Let me ask you about the threat to the

future of Nigeria. We were warned that there is a danger of famine in

the north-east, that up to 50,000 children could die unless it is

tackled. How are you worried about your country's future. Young people

with stunted growth, starving children,. I will deal with those

questions quickly. In my situation there are many things that require

attention I can assure you we are aggressively on top of these things.

You win a war and then you have a humanitarian crisis. The new talk

about the children. We need to restructure our economy and deal

with the new economy beyond oil. It is building an asset on a liability,

depending on what you do with it. By creating the environment for our

use, let me just use one example, if you look at the Digital economy

youth have surprised us positively by their level of engagement and

involvement. That must be encouraged and we need to include better

infrastructure for them, or get out of their way in allowing them to

engage with the rest of the world. Thank you very much for being with

us today. Thank you. We are now pretty confident that

Hurricane Matthew is going to slam