Dmitry Peskov HARDtalk

Now on BBC News, Stephen Sackur speaks to Dmitry Peskov,

the spokesman for Russian president, Vladimir Putin, in HARDTalk.

Welcome to a special edition of HARDTalk from Moscow. According to

US intelligence chiefs the Kremlin ran a covert operation aimed to

influence the US presidential election in favour of Donald Trump.

If they did, it worked, but was it really so? What is the truth behind

the swirl of allegations and what now for Russia-US relations? Well

I'm going to the Kremlin to meet Vladimir Putin's spokesman. Is he

triumphant or caution? Dmitry Peskov welcome to HARDTalk.

Do you care that a host of Western intelligence agencies have accused

your government of sophisticated, covert operations, dirty tricks,

meddling in their internal politics, do you care? You mean cyber attacks?

Cyber attacks, not just that, but cyber attacks have been one very big

part of it. Let's talk about the United States first of all. Yes. We

have to be very precise in wording. You're speaking about Secret

Services and special services of the major states. We're speaking about

only the United States of America and some retired gentlemen who used

to work in MI6 or MI5, I don't know exactly, from Great Britain. The

rest of special services in European countries, they have never accused

Russia of interfering into somewhere they have just started to feel

uncomfortable, at the same front of allegations - That's not Strictly

True. What you've said isn't strictly true. Bruno Khal, chief of

Germany's foreign intelligence agency said this, "Cyber attacks are

taking place that have no purpose other than to elicit political

uncertainty here in Germany. The indications show the attacks come

from Russia. There is evidence that this is at least tolerated or

desired by the state. " Again, accusations that have nothing

beneath. We don't have any proof for those blamings. It is interesting

that you began by saying it's only the United States. But it's clearly

not only the United States. Well, the whole story started from the

United States. The whole hysteria is being pumped up by the United States

public opinion, United States media. It's very emotional hysteria. You

know, sometimes it is even, it comes quite ridiculous to us to watch this

hysteria. The director of national intelligence in the US says that the

evidence is there with a very high degree of certainty. Admittedly we

haven't seen the evidence because the key evidence has been redacted.

But what he says is this, "I do not think, based on the evidence, that

we have ever encountered a more aggressive, a more direct campaign

to interfere in our election process. That's at your door,

indeed, you Dmitry Peskov, have been accused of being one of the key

architects of this campaign. Well it's a great honour for me to be so

fist Kated. I'm not that sophisticated in cyber business.

This is not the truth. This is number one. Number two, every day we

have hundreds and thousands of cyber attacks against our digital systems

in the Russian Federation. Some of them are coming from the territory

of the United States. Dozens are am coulding from the territory of --

are coming from the territory of Germany, dozens coming from Great

Britain. Do you think that it means with a high state of certainty that

those attacks against our digital systems are being promoted by the

governments in Washington, in London or in Berlin? No. You would probably

say no. It's out of the question. I'm more interested in what you

think. What do you think? We think that it has nothing to do with the

governments. Although, we also have some evidence that some foreign

special services might stand behind some very, very tense attacks

against our banks and against our, well, our official websites. Are you

trying to tell me that the Russian actions in the United States, in

Germany, we believe in Britain too, according to our intelligence

agencies, are they retaliation? No. There are no actions. There are no

actions. Neither Russian government nor Kremlin nor President Putin

personally, nor military intelligence stand behind those

attacks, if they really exist. That is a very clear position you've just

taken. Now the United States Congress is going to over the next

few weeks and months conduct a very serious investigation of all these

allegations of Russian cyber hacking. They are going to use

subpoenas. We may find a lot more specific information. If it urns out

that they -- if it turns out that they have convincing evidence that

Russia, the Kremlin was involved in authorising those attacks, you are

going to be very badly exposed, aren't you? Of course. I'm carrying

responsibility for saying that. I'm not an irresponsible person and

working as a press secretary of President Putin, I work in Kremlin

and am responsible for my words. So should there be any evidence, should

there be any proof, then it will be my responsibility. It should be

either proved or it should be dismissed. How disturbed were you

when Donald Trump appeared to say, just a few days ago, that he now

believes Russia is responsible for the hacking of the DNC e-mails?

President-elect was briefed by his special services. We do not know

what exactly was presented to him during those briefings. What we had

access to was the public part of the report. You would probably have read

that. I've read the public part. As I said, we don't know what redacted

parts include. Yes, public part was quite vague. You would probably

agree with me. It was based on assumptions, not on evidence. So

let's wait and see. On the hacking, John McCain, and a bunch of

Republican, democratic senators - Great admirer of my country. Perhaps

not the greatest admirer right now. He has said and they have said that

they're going to push forward what they're calling countering Russian

hostilities act 2017. They are going to push for an expansion of

sanctions against Russia specifically targeting those they

believe responsible for the hacking. How will you respond if that

legislation, if that expansion of sanctions goes through? So, this is

quite an unprecedented act. What is being done by the going President

Obama, by renewing the sanctions against Russia, without waiting

until the period of the existing one expires, and with the new law, with

the new law coming. So they are trying to limit the capacity, to

limit the presidency of Trump. They're trying to push him into the

way of bad relationship with Moscow. They say, you don't have a

possibility to move. You don't have a possibility to choose your own

position. You will follow our way. Which brings me to the most

important question today, around the world, but particularly concerning

your relationship with the United States. Do you believe President

Donald Trump will bring with him a fundamental change, a fundamental

shift in the relationship between Washington and Moscow?

Unfortunately, we cannot believe. What we can do is we can express our

hope. We want to have good relationship with America. We

believe that we cannot solve lots of problems in this world and in our

region, that are endangering our country without cooperation with the

Americans. That's why we desperately need good relationship with

Washington. But it takes two to tango. What will be the approach by

President Trump, this is the question. We speak on the eve of the

inauguration, will you and your boss, President Putin, be popping

the champagne corks, when you watch the inauguration of President Trump?

Well, you know, we are preoccupied these days. We have our Christian

holiday called baptising, so we are preoccupied with swimming in the ice

cold water. That's why our agenda is a little bit different. Let's allow

ourselves to think what it means in greater detail. Donald Trump has

talked about his admiration for Vladimir Putin, calls him a smart

guy. But getting away from the positives, looking at perhaps a more

realistic agenda, some of his key nominees for the top posts that of

Secretary of State, Secretary of Defence, they have said clearly they

still regard Russia as the most important threat, the Defence

Secretary nominee says he still believes that Russia poses a severe

threat to Europe's security and to Nato. Listen, you cannot leave and

you cannot develop yourself as personality in one environment and

all of a sudden come to a different conclusion. You are a child of your

environment. Environment in the United States currently is very

hostile towards Russia. So we understand those statements. We do

not expect President Trump and his administration to agree with us,

even to agree with us even on the majority of problems. But we want to

believe that they will be ready to talk to us. So, we want to be able

to convey our message to Washington. We want to, we want Washington to

will, to convey their message to us by explaining why, what exactly,

how, when and with whom. If we don't know that, we feel ourself

endangered. Donald Trump prides himself as a deal maker. He's begun

to indicate there might be deals to be done. He suggested to the Times

newspaper the other day that perhaps he would consider easing sanctions

on Russia if Russia was prepared to talk seriously about reducing its

nuclear Arsenal as part of a new round of talks. Are you interested

in that sort of approach? It's a little bit different dimensions.

Sanctions is one thing. Russia will not ever initiate discussing of the

issue. On Ukraine, which is the reason why the sanctions sit there,

your position on Ukraine appears unchanging. What the West wants to

see, we don't know whether Donald Trump wants to see it, what the West

generally wants to see is you, finally, make every effort to

implement that Minsk peace agreement and stop your support for the

separatists in Eastern Ukraine. The problem is that we are not the

country who is going to, who should implement Minsk agreement. We are

the country that should guarantee the implementation, together with

the French and with the Germans. Minsk agreement should be

implemented by Kiev and Minsk agreement should be

implemented by Kiev. Mincing agreement is not something -- Minsk

agreement is not vague. We enjoy some influence, but we cannot ask

them to die. There's been a lot of talk about the possibility of a very

early summit meeting between Mr Putin and soon to be President

Trump. Is it going to happen? Well, we hope that President Putin is

going to call President Trump after the inauguration, as soon as he's

available and congratulate him. It's a protocol. So this congratulation

should be delivered. We hope it will be delivered through a telephone

call. Then we'll expect their exchange of views on a possibility

of the meeting. What kind of time frame are we talking about?

Currently we don't have any hints for the dates, unfortunately. Are we

talking weeks, months, do you think? We hope, no I don't think weeks. Of

course, I mean, he's the President of the United States and first of

all, he's preoccupied with American business. It's like all Presidents.

You ask me, what are we going to do tomorrow, during the inauguration,

we are going to be preoccupied with Russian affairs. Because they are

the issue of priority for President Putin. It's not coming weeks. But

let's hope for the best that this meeting could take place coming

month. Coming months. And to be clear about it, President Putin

would like the earliest possible meeting with Mr Trump? I have no

doubt Mr Putin will be ready for that, yes. One interesting point,

just yesterday, it was announced here in Russia that Edward Snowden

was given a couple more years of residency here. Some people say that

one way to warm up relations quickly would be for Mr Putin to, in

essence, give Edward Snowden to the incoming Trump administration as

some sort of show of goodwill. In America they want to put him on

trial. Donald Trump has made it plain that he personally believes

that Edward Snowden should be punished for the release of secret

information. Edward Snowden is a human being that can face a death

penalty in the United States, because it's one of the few

countries that still exercises death penalty. You'll never extradite him,

is that what you're saying? This is a decision that can be taken by our

immigration authorities or President Putin. I don't know. I don't know.

But he's not a toy to be presented. He's a human being. Let's talk about

Nato, as we go round the themes that are going to be presented to Trump

and Putin as they consider their relationship. Donald Trump has said

Nato is obsolete. He's also said Nato is very important to him. He

generals tell him that Russia poses a direct threat, the way that you've

massed both weaponry, material and man power or Nato's Eastern flank,

are you prepared to show, again, good faith by, for example, pulling

your missiles out? It is very complicated issue. You cannot just

withdraw with those missiles from there without knowing that plans for

creating entire Russian, entire missile system will be abolished on

the European continent. Just one final point on diplomacy, again

about dialogue, it's about Syria. It is very notable that in your

initiative with the Turks to get some sort of dialogue going between

the government and the rebels, which led to the ceasefire, the Americans

weren't involved at all. Now there are more Peace Talks scheduled for

Kazakhstan next week. Do you definitely want the Americans, under

the new Trump administration, to be involved, to be big players

alongside you and the Turks? Well, definitely we would welcome that. We

would welcome that. Situation is very complicated. You know that the,

also there is Iran, like a very important player in Syrian issue.

The Iranians say the Americans won't be there. The Iranians are not

welcoming the Americans. It's a very complicated issue for a very careful

play. You and I in previous conversations have gone into great

detail about accusations that Russia has committed human rights

violations, some say war crimes in its military activities in Syria.

One simple question on this: Since we last spoke, the UN general

Assembly has voted to establish an investigative body to collect,

consolidate and preserve, they say, evidence and prepare cases on war

crimes and human rights abuses. Will you cooperate with that UN

investigation? I have no doubt, yes. Should it be started and what will

be the composition of that. Your people at the UN were gravely

sceptical it should be started in the first place. You're saying,

we've decided we are going to fully cooperate. No, we haven't decided.

Theoretically, I say, theoretically, we would welcome those

investigations. A final thought, I want to take it away from the

international arena to the domestic arena. I just spoke to perhaps the

leading voice in opposition to President Putin in this country

today, a man who has declared he wants to run in the presidential

elections in 2018 against Putin. He said to me, you know why Putin

fights these wars, why he is projecting Russia's power in

different arenas around the world, he is trying to distract the Russian

people from what is going on inside their own country, the millions and

millions condemned to live in poverty, the systemic corruption,

which is seeing a tiny elite at the top, enriching themselves on the

back of the majority of Russians who see no growth, no prosperity. That's

what he's going to campaign on. That is going to cause you and your boss

a great deal of trouble. Well, you know, unfortunately, we have a very

weak opposition in our country. I wonder why that is. Could it be

because they're not allowed access to state television for example? No

it's not about state television. You have modern media and viewership of

television is diminishing day by day. In Russia today, if you switch

on the TV and you want to find an opposition voice it is almost

impossible. The American President is winning elections using Twitter.

In order to be a successful opposition you have to be

sustainable. You have to have a programme of development of the

country. You also have to be allowed a semblance of freedom. You have to

be a person not at risk of being assassinated as Boris Nyemtsov was.

Unlike Alexei Novalny, whose brother is in prison and he is on trumped up

charges, you need the freedom to build a political movement. You know

as well as I do, in Russia today, that's impossible. Why don't you

think that they're not fair charges? Because the European Court of Human

Rights has declared that they are political and it said that they were

ill legitimate. We don't agree with that. You don't agree with the

European Court of Human Rights when they analysed the evidence? I would

rather trust our own court. We do have much more confidence in our own

court system. Do you read Alexei Novalny's anticorruption foundation

website. Once in a while, yes. You'd have seen your own name. Yes, most

frequently. He wants to know how come a guy like you, a public

servant on a not bad, but modest salary, how come you live in a

Villa, which he's pleased to show me, which is worth, he says, $15

million and the very famous watch of yours worth ?400,000. Try to double

check that with a different real estate agent. Try to double check

that. Do you want to tell me how much your Villa is worth, I'm happy

to take your estimate? If we're here to discuss the cost of my Villa, I

hope it's quite expensive. We're almost out of time. We have to wrap

this up. Putin up for re-election in 2018, can you guarantee to me that

Alexei Novany will at least be allowed to run and challenge Putin?

I'm not head of central election committee. Tha can guarantee that or

not guarantee that. So that's why I'm not entitled to make this kind

of statements. Do you believe it would be best for Russia if an

opposition leader like him were allowed to run against Putin? I

think it would be best for Russia if we have a serious opposition with a

serious approach, with experienced professionals and politicians trying

to compete with acting power in the face of President Putin, who is

being supported by 90% of this population. I'm taking from that

last answer, that there's no question President Putin will run

for another term in 2018? You know, we t was our first interview and I

told you there was 2004, I think, or whenever... I'm not quite that old

on HARDTalk. As a citizen of the Russian Federation, I hope he will

take a decision to run. We have to end there. Dmitry Peskov, thank you

very much for being on HARDTalk. Thank you, it was my pleasure.

Hello. Cold out there isn't it? Temperatures are beginning to fall

below freezing in some places. It's been