On the Road in Eastern Libya HARDtalk

The latest headlines. President Trump has been spelling out his

administration's new policy on Afghanistan. He did say he was going

against his original instinct for withdrawal. He said that leave a

vacuum for terrorists. He said the US expected more help from Pakistani

and India to prevent the Taliban and taking over.

is to pause operations worldwide to reassess safety measures

for its fleet after one of its destroyers collided

The chief of naval operations says there's no indication the collision

Four men accused of being part of a terror cell which killed

fifteen people in Spain last week are to appear this morning

Police in Catalonia say they've shot dead Younes Abouyaaqoub -

driver of the van that killed thirteen people in Barcelona.

HARDtalk is on the road in Benghazi, Libya. I am Stephen Sackur. This

city has been ripped apart by six years of conflict. Thousands have

been killed, tens of thousands have fled. Eastern Libya and the West are

run by rival political institutions but there is now something

resembling a functioning authority here, imposed by the military

strongman in eastern Libya, Marshal Khalifah Haftar. Can the commander

who once served Kadhafi pull Libya back from the brink? My journey to

Libya starts with a little piece of history. The first scheduled flight

bound to Benghazi in three years. The city's airport was closed down

by heavy fighting in 2014. Back then, jihadists seized most of the

city. Those days are over. Thank you. OK, buy.

So here we have one small sign of normality returning to one Libyan

city. The terminal building is nothing but a shed. The right many

flights. But to the people of Benghazi, this feels like the

lifting of a siege. This is what the war left behind. Entire

neighbourhoods of Benghazi deserted, reduced to rubble. This is one of

the last readouts of so-called Islamic State. Benghazi University

was seen in some of the fiercest fighting. This one splendid campus,

built by German architects in the 1950s, was turned into a military

base and training camp by the jihadists. This university used to

be the pride of Benghazi. Now it is just rotting in the sun. It will

need a massive reconstruction effort to revive this place and there was

no sign of it starting. The origins of the chaos can be

found in 2011. Colonel Gaddafi's planned assault on an uprising in

Benghazi brought Western powers into a conflict which ended with his

overthrow. With Gaddafi Gawn, President Sarkozy of France and

Prime Minister Cameron of Britain rushed to Benghazi to claim credit.

Colonel Gaddafi said he would hunt you down like rats but you showed

the courage of Lions and we salute your courage. But the feelgood

factor was fleeting. Post Gaddafi Libya plunged into

anarchy. In Benghazi, radical Islamist factions took control. They

killed the US ambassador. In 2014, of fightback against the jihadists

began in eastern Libya. It was started by this man, Marshal Haftar,

a top man in Kadhafi's army until the men fell out in the 1980s.

Marshal Haftar took charge of the self-proclaimed Libyan national army

and vowed to liberate Benghazi from the Islamist militants. It took him

three years. Only now are residents who fled the neighbourhood making a

tentative return. This man, Abdul, agrees to show me around. This was

your house? How do you feel now when you look at it?

But this whole neighbourhood has been ruined. Look around. There is

no way to anybody should live here now, is there?

The last three years of fighting in Benghazi took thousands of lives and

forced tens of thousands out of their homes. This family is now

rebuilding their house but some things can't be restored. More

common's 19-year-old brother was executed, beheaded, by the

militants. How can you be sure that the war will not return?

If we look around your neighbourhood, it is destroyed, so

it seems crazy to spend so much money rebuilding here.

So if I come back in five years' time, what is Ganfouda going to look

like? There is no mistaking who is in

charge in Benghazi now. Marshal Haftar glowers down from a thousand

billboards. Haftar and his army see this as a turning point for Libya,

order replacing chaos thanks to military rule. In downtown Benghazi,

there are still checkpoints and no go areas. For much of the conflict,

the front line between the jihadists and Haftar's forces ran alongside

the Tibesti Hotel, which looms over the city centre. Close by, we found

a gaggle of local supporters of the man they call their saviour. Are

more than three years, we have been suffering as the people of Benghazi.

Thousands have been displaced but luckily, fortunately, they are back

to their homes because of the state hands of the Libyan army under

martial Haftar. What you want to see now, do you want to see Marshall

Haftar marching to Tripoli? They wanting to be the president of

Libya... That he would be a dictator. Is not a dictator. In

three years, this guy had given the freedom and confidence, not only for

army officers but for police, intelligence, internal security.

Everything. You really think... He gave us peace. You think you would

be a good president for this country? He is truly a good leader.

Libya is a country of desert, vast distances and disparate tribes. It

is also a land rich in oil and gas. The reserves are pumped to the

coast, the so-called oil crescents. This is Brega, a sprawling complex

run by the National oil Company, the MOC, owned by the state. Awad guides

me around this ageing plant. Is this from the chimneys? It is not a new

plant. It depends on the fuel. All well was the glue that held in

Kadhafi's fight them together. -- or ill. After his demise, the jihadists

tied -- the jihadists tried to get their hands on these assets, they

failed, and now the martial's army rules the oil crescents. There have

been times over the past six years when it looks like the violence and

political chaos in Libya could shut down this vital industry but that

has never quite happened. The oil and the gas is still flowing but as

for the revenue being generated, well, much of the money is being

creamed off by different warlords and militias.

I've looked around your facilities, it seems to me you have equipment

from the 1950s, 1960s... Yes, you are right. You need a lot of

investment. Yes, yes. Who is going to give you the money? NOC, as

usual, NOC. But they are not. There is a problem. The political

situation in Libya now, the government, the army... It sounds

like from what you are saying that it is currently impossible for you

to develop this facility. For the time being, yes. Without investment,

capital investment or without money, we cannot do anything. Only we are

trying to keep the oil company alive. This is a disaster the Libya.

Oil and gas is the lifeblood of your country. Of course, it's a disaster

and this disaster started since 2011. But now, there is improvement.

We feel there is improvement. The east of Libya is completely

controlled by Mr Haftar, and the south of Libya as well. Just the

west of Libya which is controlled by militia. I think, in the nearest

future, all this problem will be solved. As you sit here with me

today, are you confident they will? Insha'Allah. Libya TV, based in

Benghazi, is projecting a message of change.

The outside world associates Libya with images of violence, terrorism

and people smuggling. But here, they lead the news with martial Haftar's

latest pronouncements on terrorists vanquished and order restored.

But this is what you don't see on Libya TV. Disturbing evidence has

surfaced on the Internet of Haftar's forces seemingly conducting summary

executions. The International Criminal Court is investigating this

as a war crime and has issued an arrest warrant for the officer in

charge. Our command, you said that you report the truth to the people

but how independent are you? -- Ahmed.

The UN yesterday issued a report which expressed very serious concern

about allegations with evidence of war crimes committed by the Libyan

national army during their operations in Ganfouda in much of

this year. As your network free to report and investigate those

allegations? There are people inside Libya and

outside Libya who worry that Khalifa Haftar is a military man, and he may

end up moving to Tripoli and seeking the leadership of this country. As a

journalist, do you think it would be very dangerous for Libya to have, as

the nation's leader, in military man, not a civilian politician?

There are pockets of normality in Benghazi. Places where the tide of

violence seems to have been stemmed. But the calm at the beach can't

disguise an undercurrent of tension. Our movements in the city have to be

co-ordinated with Khalifa Haftar's military command. It is a city of

checkpoints, security patrols, and plain clothes ages. When we try to

film food being handed to the poor, we were stopped. I came here on the

promise of a rare interview with Khalifa Haftar. But he changed his

mind. He cancelled at the last minute. He presents himself as a

defender of freedom, but it seems he doesn't welcome scrutiny of his own

record. Last month, Khalifa Haftar went to Paris, to meet the Prime

Minister of the rival, Tripoli -based government. The Libyan rivals

committed themselves to a cease-fire and nationwide elections next year.

But Khalifa Haftar's army now controls three quarters of Libyan

territory. He and his isn't government think that they can call

the shots. Do you believe in a political solution to Libya's

problems, or do think there will have to be a military solution?

Because you're mad, -- because your man, Khalifa Haftar, police he can

provide the Mercury solution. Mr Khalifa Haftar is working with his

compatriots. But he is a soldier, not a politician. But he is

concerned about rebuilding the authority of the state over our

national territories, because the authority of the state has been

rebuffed. This in favour of militia who have the upper hand and are

sending terrorists to neighbouring countries. In June, 2015, 27 UK

nationals were slaughtered, were killed, by a terrorist who was

trained in western Libya, in which, right now, we have big problems.

This, it if you will excuse me, could be an attempt to represent

yourselves as those in the East who are defenders of freedom and

justice. I think he is increasingly trusted. He has had many meetings

with Western ambassadors here in Libya, and abroad. I don't think

that I would agree with your contention. I think what diplomats

do is they look at Khalifa Haftar's record, and how he conducts his

operations, and they look at what is happening in Benghazi. You will have

read the latest UN report which says that as Khalifa Haftar moved his

forces back into Benghazi, there were egregious abuses of human

rights. That is in which bothers the international community. People as

us to. These reports came out, and he voiced his concerns. He said that

we had to investigate these acts - beat outlawed axe. -- these outlawed

acts. Have you seen the pictures of people being tortured, and executed?

I have, unfortunate. These acts should stop. The army will look into

that seriously. But let us be blunt and honest here for a moment,

Foreign Minister. You sit here is a civilian Minister politician, but

you do not call the shots. The military does, led by Khalifa

Haftar. And I quote you the Economist intelligence unit. Looking

at the ground on the east, they say it looks as if there is a drift to

authoritarianism. Others have spoken of the militarisation of governance

in eastern Libya. That is the reality. Libyans to live that law

and order because of the chaos that has so far prevailed, especially

since 2014. You say there is evidence that the GNA government is

tolerating terrorism, and that Qatar, for example, has been

supporting terrorism in western Libya. But I have not seen anything

to back up these claims. Where is the evidence? There were some

shipments of weapons sent by Qatar in Tripoli. We know that. But what I

know, and what I have seen as cast-iron evidence is the shipment

of arms coming to you from the UAE, from Egypt... You seem to be focused

on the Qatari connection in the West, when it appears there is a

connection with the UAE, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, here it is. These are

weapons that have been coming to Europe. I am not privy to those

details. But you are the so-called Foreign Minister! But I am not

involved with military affairs. I cannot co-operate what you have just

said. I know there is a great deal of support that has been provided by

Egypt. I am mindful that in 2011, the Libyan people rose up against a

long-time dictator, more marked Gaddafi. Sometimes it looks as

though, in a figure of Khalifa Haftar, there might once again be

flirting with a potential dictator. -- Muammar Gaddafi. The world wants

a peaceful, United, safe Libya, where Terry -- terrorism is

eliminated. Do you think we will see that in the next one or two years? I

am hopeful, optimistic, about that. There is a great deal of will among

Libyans that we should put an end to this split in Libya, and the fact

that we have two governments, and to put an end to this case that we have

suffered from. -- chaos. The top Libyan football team are preparing

for the new season. Remarkably, through all of the years of

violence, the Libyan national league has kept going. One semblance of

unity amid the division and chaos. A generation of young Libyan men have

grown up with guns, militias, and war. In eastern Libya, Khalifa

Haftar is seen as a warrior and a winner. But on the other side of

this crippled country is ultimate victory -- is ultimate victory seems

much less certain. -- his ultimate.