Gene Simmons - Musician and Businessman HARDtalk

Now on BBC News, it's time

for HARDtalk with Sarah Montague

and the rock and roll

showman, Gene Simmons.

Welcome to HARDtalk make. I am Sarah

Montague. There aren't many people

who are recognisable only from their

make-up, but mention a zig-zag of

black flames around the eyes,

painted on a white face, and

millions of people around the world

will know you are talking about the

frontman of the rock band, Kiss.

Take away the makeup and you have

Gene Simmons, a man so canny about

business that he realised he could

make more money from marketing the

Kiss brand than from selling

records. His famously long tongue

has also proved a loose one. He is

frequently invited on chat shows and

revels in scandalising his critics.

But is that also all part of the

act?

Gene Simmons, welcome to HARDtalk.

Thank you. Wonderful being here.

Is

it all front with you, promoting an

image and a brand through both your

music and your opinions?

I think it

is fair to say we all wake up and

stand in front of a mirror and try

to see how the rest of the world

sees as. Shakespeare said the whole

world is a stage and we are players.

We are all trying to figure out what

to wear, how to act, in some ways it

is all real. The only time we are as

honest and purely innocent without

trying to figure out what anyone

thinks is perhaps when we are at

home alone and there is no one there

to judge us. But as soon as we leave

our home, people have something to

say, look out, think about, and so

on. So, of course, everything is all

an act in the same way as you. You

are a professional. But of course,

it is an act.

OK, but as far as the

music is concerned, there are people

who say it was always about the

front rather than the music.

I mean,

take whatever you will from it...

Before you, what was it?

We wanted

four years ago to put together a

band no one ever saw on stage, to

write the songs that we believe in

and so on and to make, you know,

quite honestly a complete spectacle

out of ourselves, because critics

say that we are. You are downright

we do. We believe in giving folks

bang for their buck. The sad thing

is people putting in some act and

charging $100 for it.

But only

recently, when you look at the

critics of...

Can I react to the

word critics?

One of the Guardian

addicts talked about your concert

earlier this year, he described it

and all earlier concerts as a

masterclass in self-parody from day

one.

Thank God the Guardian thought

that.

Perhaps it is something you

agree with. You set out to say...

Not at all. Not at all. I appreciate

the good will and good natured fun,

but I have a few houses the critics

have bought me. If those are bad

reviews, bring them on.

Can you be

honest about how much is spectacle

rather than the music it is clearly

both.

I don't want to get up on

stage with a band I am so proud of

and just play the songs. That would

be a slap in the face of the

audience. We also don't use backing

tracks or anything fake. We are

really a legitimate band.

You said

yourself I am not an artist.

That is

highly overused. It is not up to me

to decide if I am. It is up to the

people. For the people, by the

people. If someone does I am an

artist, I would say, who are you?

There are some people who write and

sing because they feel driven to do

it. Is that the same with you?

I

don't want to tell you the facts of

life about those things. Those

people will tell you what you want

to hear. That is beautifully poetic.

Then privately they go back to their

mansions in the same way we do. And

the attention and the attraction of

this sex or the opposite sex, it is

all part of the game. People would

not do this if they got not a single

penny.

OK, but do you still write

music? Are you still moved to do so?

I wrote a song two weeks ago called

Your Wish is My Command.

Did you

write to make money?

That is a good

point so the people who create stuff

and right stuff are in the creative

process and afterwards they want to

make money. But there is absolutely

nothing wrong with sitting down and

being hired by somebody because you

are hired by the wonderful and

iconic BBC to sit here. You know

full well what you are going to be

doing, you are going to be paid

money. What is bad about that?

OK.

And for you, I mean, as a band...

You mean America's number one golden

record winning group?

It is hard

wired into your DNA, isn't it? To

promote.

If I will wait for the BBC

or anyone else to tell the world how

fantastic we are, we will lose.

That

is why early on you invented band

merchandising. You did not do

teacups and coffee cups...

How

English! I love it.

Or T-shirts! You

went so much further! You have 5000

different licensed items!

Yeah.

Anything from Kiss condoms to

caskets. We will get you coming to

going.

The latest you have is a

vault.

It is called

genesimmonsvault.com.

What is it the

ordinary is people can pay extra for

this material and get you... I don't

want you to list various options.

You can pay extra to have you

personally and deliver it to their

house.

Yeah. That is because when I

was a child Elvis did not come to my

door and say check out my new album,

Gene. I am well-off and the fans

gave me this opportunity so I wanted

to change the way things are done.

The largest box set of all time is

the box set I am putting on the

website. It is three feet tall, 38

lbs, and spans 50 years of songs

with Bob Dylan and Van Halen and

many people. But I will hop on a

plane at my own cost and have to

live it around the world.

I don't

know how early sales have gone...

Huge!

You are travelling a lot next

year?

I will start in January and be

out there for 12 months.

You will

not get tired?

I will, but so what?

When you go run around Hyde Park,

you get tired.

For those struggling

to think, you know, what is a Kiss

band? They may not remember.

What

planet did they come from?

We have a

clip. We will have a look.

#Everybody's got to rock and roll#!

#Shout it, shout it, shout it out

loud#! #Shout it, shout it, shout it

out loud#! Do you notice how

attractive I look?

That is from last

year! By the way, the offering has

not changed much in more than four

decades. You are now approaching 70.

68 now.

Do you not get a bit tired?

Oh no.

Putting on the make up.

Do

you?

But seriously?

It is a

privilege and an honour. It is more

akin to warpaint, the idea... The

roar of the crowd, the smell of the

grease paint, the whole process is

so exciting. You are backstage and

hanging with the guys and stuff like

that and you start to hear the

crowd. There are very few things

that get you excited during the

course of the day. Come on, you are

looking forward to...

But to do it

for five decades and you are still

having to perform some of the early

songs...

Of course, we are! And

partly so. What better job is there?

We have more fun than the Pope!

It

when you first realise... You were

formed in 1873...

1873?

In 1973 it

was a struggle to begin with but

suddenly you started selling

records.

It wasn't about records. We

started selling at readings within a

year and a half of debuting. We sold

out in a home stadium. We were

headlining above bands around for

decades. -- Anaheim Stadium.

Something happened before records,

voicemail, anything, really. It

happened naturally. Critics never

gave us a quarter to get on a bus.

It happened because of the people!

And we continued... Our strongest

base, our strongest, you know,

support, comes from the people. And

that is our favourite thing.

In for

running up debts to get the band

going, the money really started

rolling in. -- and from.

Big. I

remember... My mother is from

Hungary and she continues to say how

is it going? She has this

wonderful... She still has no clue

who pays the money or who I work

for.

She has been to one of your

concerts?

She goes all the time and

she does my, you know, the hand

gesture, and all that, I love you.

Initially she went up and did not

realise I was on the other end of

the room. My life is so amazing...

But your life changed as a result of

that and as a result of the fact

that you were starting to make

money. It must have just changed so

the radically.

Well, it dramatically

changed because I moved to Hollywood

and I sold out. I became ensconced,

which is a big word like gymnasium

and power and all that, but never

drugs, never boos, never alcohol. I

have still never been high or drunk

in my life. -- booze. I don't care

if anyone thinks I am making it up

or believes it. That is my choice in

life and you can do whatever you

want. I would never break my

mother's hard. She was 14 years of

age when she was in the

concentration camps of Nazi. --

heart. I have no right to disappoint

her in any way. My mother is proud

of her son and I have done my job.

And it is because of your mother

that you thought I will not do

something that affects the health.

You are the only sign.

It is about

not breaking her heart. She is 92

and just kicking it. I am not

supposed to say that word is up and

she continues to be the inspiration

that keeps me going straight, that

prevents me from drifting off to the

dark side, because, you know, the

papers are littered with people who

self abuse...

But including your

bandmates, two of the original

members of the band have written

about their own problems with drugs,

Coke, and alcohol. Peter Greste said

I had a coke problem at the time.

Everyone was doing it.

I never

did... I was so stupid and naive I

went on to a recording studio and

there was a mirror and I just had

artificial sweetener and coffee. I

thought someone had spilt some

sweetener but it was coke. I did not

know what it was in someone stopped

me amusing at. I rapidly learned to

stay away from losers.

That is why

you got rid of two of the original

members of the band.

Three different

times. They came around three

different times and lost fortunes

every time.

Peter when writing about

it said it made him work harder, it

was fuel to him.

Everyone gets

delusional with chemicals inside

their body. It is nonsense. Without

it I would not be creative, that

kind of... It is enabling. The truth

is you are born with everything you

need. Anything else you your body

numbs your mind and body, it is your

enemy.

What was it like within the

band if you are alone in that?

There

was huge tension. We had argument

and fight and lawyers get involved.

And of course, invariably, you had

to get rid of them. Because how can

you imagine playing in a football

team if you do not depend on them?

What if you are too high to

understand? We all lose.

You did not

touch drink and drugs. The women,

though, that third element of the

rock and roll life, you really went

to town.

It is all true.

4800 women

is supposedly your record.

One or two, whatever that is, that's

in the past. I'm married. I love my

wife, Shannon, and I waited like a

jackass, are you allowed to say that

word?

That's fine.

I am a jackass

and I have been all my life, I'm a

lonely child and it's like being in

a bakery and being on a diet, you're

in a rock band and everything gets

thrown in your face, the bad stuff,

women, all that stuff. I didn't want

to grow up, I was arrogant, self and

all that. It took for ever, it took

Shannon, my wife, my wife, my two

kids, Nick and Sophie, to kick me in

the nuts and make me grow up and be

a man.

Your wife made you burn the

Polaroids which were the proof of

the 4800.

It was a public thing, it

wasn't a secret.

You put it behind

you but you have run into

difficulties recently because of the

things you said when he went to Fox

News, you were banned for life

because you barged into a staff

meeting.

I didn't. Certainly not.

You barged in and you opened up your

shirt and you said Sunni.

What is

your name?

Sarah.

I could go on

social media and said Sarah let me

backstage and do whatever I want.

What happened?

Nothing, here's how I

wear my shirt, someone there had in

for me and called the daily beast or

something and said whatever they

said I did. I did nothing. I aways

have people around me, like when I

come here, have handlers and

everyone sees what I'm doing. You

can't go into a public area and do

anything. Let me finish. The problem

with social media today is nobody

calls you and says, do you have a

comment? The story was printed and

of course everybody exploded and

Fox, they're nice people, I like

them a lot, but they are close ranks

and they're afraid of getting sued

by everybody but nothing happened, I

stand by every word.

Nothing

happened but they banned you?

That's

right, that's exactly right, stand

by every word I just said.

We all

know the hash tag #metoo where women

are calling out behaviour where they

have suffered in the past sexual

harassment at the hands of men and

your name has appeared in a couple

of tweets.

Why would I want to do

anything... I'm not even going to

hold up the hypothetical. Nothing

happened. All of a sudden 44 years

on in a rock band somebody is coming

up and saying this guy is a bad guy,

it's not true. I think the climate

is horrifically bad and yet at the

same time in powering to the right

women, there are some really bad

guys out there, I just happen not to

be one of them.

When you read what

women say I happening to them, what

do you think about the culture that

you and others lived through?

The

women coming out about Weinstein,

they should go to the cops, the

police and court system are there to

do what the women did with Bill

Cosby, if you have a complaint, go

to the cops. Going through the court

of public opinion on social media is

exactly how it happened, why not get

a lawyer?

Isn't there a question of

changing the Kopczak, the kind of

stuff you maybe don't go to the

police over but you think, I'm going

to go and call this out because

women don't have to accept it.

There

is an organisation in England, I saw

it yesterday on a chat show, the

woman heads it, about the victims,

the men committed suicide were

wrongly convicted of all kinds of

nonsense. What about them?

Do you

think it's gone too far?

I'm not

saying it's gone too far go to the

cops.

Let's go back to your mother.

Now I like you.

The single most

important person in your life.

Should be the single most important

person to everybody bus pass life.

It's because of her background, she

was a survivor of the Holocaust,

when she was in America, she was

with you, you were eight, Jura

members that time in it seems to

My father abandoned me when I was

about seven years old and my dear

mother took on the rains and the

responsibility the way so many

millions of mothers around the world

raise families as a single mother,

whether they're married or not.

We came to America when I was eight

years old and I was to fully

unprepared for everything and my

mother had language difficulties,

she only spoke Hungarian, I spoke

Hungarian and one or two other

languages, none of us spoke English

and it was enormously hard for my

mother and what I saw was the most

empowering inspirational human being

I've ever seen in movies,

television, it was my mother, who

would wake up at the crack of dawn

and go to work every day and make

sure her son would turn out and

take. That's why I have a lifelong

responsibility... You're going to

get me choked up here now because

I'm going to stop.

-- turned out OK.

What do you think about the attempts

in America now to stop immigrants?

I

am an immigrant, I'm a illegal

immigrants, why anyone would care

what a guy in a band thinks about

immigration or politics, but you're

asking so I'm going to give you one

citizen's opinion. That is legal

immigration is the right thing

because at least people know who you

are, where you come from. Some

vetting, it's called due diligence

in business, but you want to vet who

comes and goes and I give that power

to the government. I want you to say

I want you to know where I am if I

pay taxes, if I commit a crime, I

want you to know where I am, here

are my figure prints, I'm all for

that. There are 120 million illegal

immigrants in America. My heart goes

out to anyone that comes to America

or England for a better life or

anything like that, I get it,

emotionally and sympathetically I'm

with you all the way. But

unfortunately bad guys come along

with that as well. I just want to

say the following, the Pope, I'm a

big fan of him, he's a good human

being, he said walls around your

land are not a nice thing, maybe so,

but the Vatican has an enormous wall

going around it.

But your own

daughter said we're a country built

on immigrants and survivals and what

is happening right now when we're

closing our doors on that is

shocking to me because my family

wouldn't be here, both my family are

-- both my parents are immigrants.

I

love Sophie, she's the rights holder

of everything, when she is 25 years

old, I was like that too, immigrants

is all encompassing, it's not. When

you're illegal immigrant there's a

vetting process, when you keep the

doors open, I'm going to suggest let

everyone in, without any vetting,

are you for that?

What about the

children of illegal immigrants, the

dreamers?

It breaks my heart and I

don't have the answer because if I

was here illegally and I had a child

I would say do whatever you want

with me but please let my child have

a better life. That's the emotion

and romance of it.

You have said

about Trump, give him time.

It's

President Trump and I'll tell you

why. I don't necessarily like or

dislike him.

Did you vote for him?

He was duly elected and I'll tell

you why I won't answer that either,

I may not have, but the reason your

Founding Fathers, and in America you

have the curtains were you vote,

it's nobody's business who you voted

for and if a citizen asks you that

you're just going to get into an

argument.

Given the record you've

seen so far I wonder whether you

would be prepared to vote for him

for a second time?

I know the man

personally a little bit, as I know

President Clinton and President

Bush.

You've worked with him as

well, haven't you?

Yes. President

Trump doesn't really care how you

think about him, he's really a loan

guide. That's really not good or

bad, it is what it is, he doesn't

pretend to be a politician and he

really doesn't care what you think

about him. This is either going to

turn out to be good or bad. I know

he's heard a lot of things, people

buy the things he's said, he's

unfiltered, what you see is what you

get, he's not an ideologue, he's

neither Republican or a cracked.

Don't think for a second that

because I'm saying this on for this

or this. I don't trust politicians,

neither side would have me, socially

I'm very liberal, gay rights, LGBT,

if you want to worship a rock or an

atheist, I'm on your side, I will

march with you, don't tell me what

kind of life to have but foreign

policy, I'm as conservative as you

would imagine. Fiscally I'm very

conservative. What does that make

me, a member of the American party?

Let me ask you finally about the

American your family.

Finally, I

thought we were going to be here all

day?

You arrive in America at eight

years old and new you see house

accessible you been, is your mother

proud of you?

My mother will take a

magazine out and something I have

been in and she will start crying.

From her perspective of being a

concentration camp survivor and

seeing her whole family to being in

Israel and then coming to America

and seeing her son scale the heights

and all that, she's taught me to be

fearless and look BBC right in the

face and to thine own self be true.

Take it or leave it, I don't care

how you feel about it, I'm clean

inside and this is who I am and I

learned that from my mother.

Gene

Simmons, thank you for coming on.

It

was a pleasure to see me.