26/10/2015 House of Commons

and I want to see how we get on her voting those. As so often demand has

exceeded supply, we must now move on. Before we come to the urgent

questions that I have selected for today, I have a short statement to

make about how I intend to implement the standing orders agreed by the

House on the 22nd of October for the benefit of those listening the on

this chamber. This concerns the so-called English votes on English

laws issue. After a government bill has been introduced, a note will be

published in the appropriate place on the order paper to the effect

that I have not yet... For certification, the same process will

be allowed for statutory instruments requiring consideration. If I sign

the certificate, the note on the order paper will be changed

accordingly. Any certification will also be recorded in the event that

proceedings. I do not propose to record a decision not to certify,

the absence of any note on the order paper will indicate that no

certification has been made. Before report stage begins I will seek to

identify and advance those changes made in committee, which I would

expect to certify, together with any government amendments tabled for

risk... Report stage, in past will likely lead me to issue a

certificate. At the end of report stages of bills, where I am required

to consider any matter for certification, I would as a matter

of course expect a brief suspension of the House, so that I worried that

deputy could leave the chair and D side whether to certify. Similar

brief suspensions may be necessary at later stages. I propose to except

the advice of the procedure committee not as a rule, to give

reasons for decisions on certification during this

experimental phase of the new regime. Anybody wishing to make

representations to me, prior to any decision should send them to the

Clark of legislation. I wish to insure the House that everything is

in hand for double majority divisions including be third

division. Thirdly, may I say as set out on Thursday, we are in

experimental territory. I may indeed, myself, experiment by

adjusting these arrangements as the new regime develop. Whatever the

views of colleagues on their merits, I hope the House will

support me and the officers of the House in trying to give effect to

the standing orders to the best of our ability. We come now to the

urgent question, Mr Fabian Hamilton. Will be minister make a statement on

the arrest of three peaceful protesters during President Xi

Jinping visit to London last week. Thank you very much indeed Mr

Speaker. Mr Speaker, last week there was a very successful visit of the

president people bash of the People's Republic of China. As the

tape with all state -- state visits, plans were taken to ensure the

security and safety of the visit. The right of peaceful process is

guaranteed under UK law, with respect to protester's rights to

express their views peacefully. The police then sought to facilitate

peaceful protest. However, as part of the operation last week, three

individuals were arrested. I understand it was Pollock to public

knowledge that the police arrested that person on conspiracy to commit

threatening behaviour, all individuals have now been bound to

return to the London police station wall further investigations

continue. Operational police process our entire the matters for chief

constables and inappropriate for me to comment on specific individual

cases. While the right to peacefully protest is guaranteed under UK law,

protester rights need to be balanced for others to go about their

business without fear of intimidation. Right to peaceful

process does not... And the police have powers to deal with such acts.

The Metropolitan police themselves have issued a statement on this

issue last week, they reject any suggestion that they acted

inappropriately. They made clear that throughout the visit they had

sought to facilitate his feasible protest and all those who wish to do

so were allowed to do so and express their views. That is a fundamental

British value of freedom of expression. I am sure this house

would continue to support it. Also a reminder that it... Police

complaints are an independent one and procedures for down in 2002 on

please format to make sure that please officers and staff are

answerable to the public, that processes there. But there is a

police investigation going on and I think that is something that

politicians should stay out of. Thank you Mr Speaker, I think the

Minister for his statement. However right Honorable member from across

the House I am sure to share my deep concern in the wake that a former

Chinese dissident and veteran of the Tian an men Square protests of 1989

was arrested Wednesday at last it week and a short time waiter...

Later to Tibetan students, one of them was a British citizens, were

arrested for attempting to display a to batten flag. Doctor Zhao who is

now a British is that tried to display to placards protesting

against China's human rights abuses when he was tackled to the ground by

five Metropolitan police officers and shown on Channel 4 News. While

the protesters were held, their homes were searched and their

computers and iPods were seized. To their mobile phones were tapped by

the police. Does the Minister have any idea when their possessions will

be returned to the three protesters? Will the confidentiality

of the data on their computers be respected, all three depend on their

computers for their work. Willie comment on why their homes were

searched at night wills they were in custody. Any charges they face will

be decided on in bird... Early December, does he believe is

justified? Is it acceptable to detain lawful protesters overnight

and sells? Finally Mr Speaker, could he comment on whether these

route... Arrest were related to the visit of President Xi Jinping? It is

an ongoing investigation and I am not going to jeopardise the case by

commenting further. What the Minister says or chooses not to say

is a matter for the Minister, but they can raise an agreement with the

chair, and how often they which so these matters will run her round, so

the colleagues must not worry about that. It seems extraordinary to me

that only three people were arrested when there is a lot of people

wanting to protest. It seems to me, that the police allow the protest,

if there was a complaint about 300 people being arrested I do not

understand the problem with three? As I said in my statement there is a

lot of work in preparation of the visit to make sure that people had

the right to protest as the right to protest as he laws stipulate. But

ethical to police made a decision to arrest, and it is in operation all

matter and not for me to comment on. Mr Speaker China is a proud

country, the second largest economy in the world and seem to be the

largest. The Anglo Chinese relationship is an important one in

collaboration and investment... If we seek to strengthen that

relationship in any relationship should be underpinned by a integrity

of them probe to approach. There are certain values of human rights that

transcend any commercial or other relationship. That is why in our

country we believe and rightly so, that rights are so important and

rooted in our great Democratic tradition of the Magna Carta.

Traditionally in a free society we both engage and we speak out as

indeed Mr Speaker you did last week. As did the Leader of the Opposition,

he received the interrogation of the Chinese president. Would be prime

minister been quite as vigorous as you. In a free society we defend the

right to dissent and protest, it would not be appropriate to comment

in any detail on the circumstances of this case because it is under

investigation. But these are very serious allegations that should be

properly investigated, including the raid on the homes of those engaged

in the dissent. Therefore the Honorable member is right to raise

these concerns on the house floor of the comments. I am not certain there

was a question there, but I might have missed it. I agree with

everything he said early on in the statement about our relationship

with China and I think it is absolutely important and the

principle of protest is absolutely there. But there is three people in

and one in... Ongoing investigation and it would be wrong on any shape

or form to comment on the legitimacy of the arrest while the atomization

goes on. Thank you Mr Speaker. I am glad the Minister shares our pride

and tradition of peaceful protest, does the Minister sure my shame at

the purported harassment of the Tian an men Square survivor. And does the

Minister if peaceful protesters or other peaceful protesters in this

jaybird get a knock in the door on the middle of the night for the

please, will he help us? Mr Speaker, I am not going to prejudge

an investigation by the Metropolitan police would have it huge amount of

respect for. Does not prejudge a case and let the investigation

continue and then we will all know the facts. Thank you Mr Speaker the

Chinese ambassador to the UK's stated that nobody would be put

behind bars simply for criticising the Chinese government. I appreciate

this government is keen to banish human rights protection in this

country, but is the Minister really happy to not even be able to make

the same several... Civil liberty commitment that China claims to be

making. And I appreciate that he cannot comment on an individual case

so I am not going to ask them to. But I am asking him to tell me of

any reason hypothetically speaking that somebody went... Weaving their

countries flagged should be arrested, put behind bars, and have

their mobile phone and PC taken from them? This may become slightly

repetitive but at the end of the day the police operationally on the

ground made a decision and we should respect, wait for the investigation

to do that... To finish and then make commentaries. And if someone

wants to make a complaint than it is not on the floor of this house it is

after it has finished. Than my right honourable friend assure the House

that these potential breaches of the peas be give it the exact same

investigation, due process, whether if they are involved in the Chinese

President's visit... And there will be a vote wherever there is

necessary. If an individual that is returning to the pays made it plays

to... A complaint to the Independent police complaints, then it does not

matter if this was a Chinese demonstration, or any other sort of

dinner... Demonstration, I think the whole house will make that decision

and support that decision as well. Does the Minister have any idea at

all of the anger felt here and certainly outside over what occurred

and it is unfortunate that he appears to be an apologist for what

occurred. It seems to many people that what took place as far as the

police were concerned was and could be described as British police

action with Chinese characteristics. Mr Speaker, I am

actually going to treat with contempt some of the comments that

the individual... The amount of experience he has in this house I

thought he would be supporting the police in a very difficult

situation. I was not there, I saw TV coverage, and the officers there

made the decision, they made the decision to arrest and the ongoing

investigation is continuing, let's wait and see that happen. Perhaps I

can elicit eight, and if I speak more generally and I appreciate that

freedom... Of expression is a centrepiece of democracy. Will he

tell me how was freedom of expression that would lead be

allowed up by bullies who corralled peaceful Tibetan demonstrators at

the back the mouth where they had a line of police officers in front of

them while pro Chinese demonstrators wearing T-shirts given to them by

the Chinese Embassy were in the front? How the police protest the

situation is a operational police decision and that is something that

politicians stay out of because we do not want to live in that sort of

state, Mr Speaker. One of the three individuals arrested is a

constituent of mine and she is a British citizen is in and she was

arrested on Wednesday for waving a Tibetan flag. Grandstand not looking

into the grep the grounds yet, but if there'd proved to be a case that

there were not grounds for arrest, what would he agree with looking

into it. It seems that these three individuals were arrested without

sufficient grounds. I can understand. I am a can... I

understand the concerns he expressed, but I would also wait for

the police investigation, there are a lot of assumptions, but let's

wait. I have faith in the police of this country, something we all have,

so let's wait and see how the investigation goes. Thank you very

much Mr Speaker, the... 284 placards calling for human rights in China

and his home was searched but his wife and his computers work

confiscated and I stood to his wife and it was a traumatic experience

and particularly for him since he was held in jail for 18 months at

the Tiananmen Square demonstrations. How can a member upon her man held

to account to make those disgraceful decisions who was on the face of it

by hitting entirely peacefully and should not have been arrested in his

house should not have been searched? While I understand, Mr

Speaker. The feeling that she needs to support her constituents, I fully

understand. We must wait, because that is the type of democracy we are

in. There is an ongoing investigation, and he is on about

and let's wait and see and then we can see what happens and after that

after all of this is old... Over a will like to meet with colleagues to

discuss this. I spent most of last week in Geneva chairing a committee

of the interval union on the rights of parliamentarian. For many of the

preachers of rights involved freedom of expression, etc. Many things that

seem to have taken place here in the last week. Many things that seem to

have taken place here in the on freedom of expression when quite

clearly what should have been, or was, as I extend a peaceful

demonstration was treated in this way. I met the Honorable Lady just

before she went to Geneva and I know why she was there an I hope it was a

successful visit. Thousands of people did demonstrate peacefully,

three people were arrested. Let's wait and see what the investigation

cover. I trust the police, the honourable gentleman does not so he

should be ashamed. Order! Not an appropriate authorisation from a

sedentary position. Order! Order. No common as required for... From the

honourable member and I recognise it in the exercise of his important no

passing responsibilities, he feels a duty to discharge his obligations

with great commitment. No, I am not interested in his views, his

responsibility is to sit there and not in shake his head at appropriate

places in to fetch and carry notes when required. I do not need to hear

him when he is on his seat. Thank you Mr Speaker this may have been a

lawful arrest, I do not want to prejudge the please, not knowing the

evidence. What we do know is up and down the country not only in the

metro polity and police, but other police, there are unlawful arrests

every single day of the week and for that police force is the taxpayer

has to pay millions of pounds of concert... Composition every year.

But they have not published those figures so we do not know how much

that is to taxpayer. With the Minister agree with me that if those

figures were published it might incentivize police to be more

careful of what is lawful and unlawful? I think my Honorable

friend is trying to drag me into a discussion on if the arrest word

lawful or unlawful but I do not want to get in to that while the

investigation continues. The Minister is absolutely right,

operational matters are and must be for the police. If I say to him that

the execution of these operational matters are done in such a way as to

risk the trilling effect on freedom of speech, that becomes a matter for

this house. I do not see how it would prejudice any future

prosecution for the Minister to be interrogating those responsible for

the policy behind these actions, and I would suggest to him that he has a

duty to do so, will he do that? Mr Speaker as I said in my opening

remarks that the president of the road public of China, the secretary

was delete... Breathed in on how we will police the visit and the

possibility of cores... At the end of the day, that is still the

operational position on the day that took place and there will be a

review on bad. The question today on three people being arrested is not

something that I can talk on because I could possibly jeopardise the

ongoing investigation. But we must always learn from policing and how

it is done. When the Minister will look back on these particular

actions and form a judgement on whether they are appropriate at not

will he also look at the actions reported by a today's independent,

who is reported to actually being accused to helping demonstrate pro

Chinese demonstrations, which I feel is inappropriate? I must admit that

I was not aware of the gentleman or the actions that the general...

Honorable lady is referring to and I will look into that. Does the

Minister appreciate the propaganda value of what has happened in the

course of the last few weeks with Mac it was all about China, and

human rights and Tiananmen Square. Indeed the Speaker almost referred

to it in his remark, but now today a tiny bash the Chinese are able to

say it is no different in Britain. Mr Speaker I find that completely

baffling. We have gone out of our way to... As a state visit to have a

very senior member of a foreign government come to this country and

to make sure that people had the opportunity to protest. Eight... At

a huge cost, but at the end of the day when arrests take place, and

people are being investigated and it is not right for the please minister

to judge how other countries will look on those arrest until after the

conclusion, I would have thought, after the investigation. Can I say

to the Minister, someone who... I think that the recent visit was a

great success, by and large. In the balance, on the things that they are

doing here, but there was also a very pleasant visit. I have known

him a long time and if he finished his remarks, and set them in the

same time that he started his remarks, we would have been much

happier. It's our right as members of Parliament is to say we are

concerned. My friend from Leeds, when the Minister first came back

and sort of testosterone, and going to do spit... Defend his batch. At

the should of started that way because we all quite like him that

way the in his mode. Guidance has been provided in the Minister must

make his own assessment of it. To be fair, it is a massively serious

issue, particularly for that three people who have been arrested. It is

an important issue for the police and perhaps for the prosecution. We

all need to wait, I know this is very important at the moment, but we

all need to wait and perhaps will will all learn a little from that.

Thank you Mr Speaker, this is a serious matter and I would like to

ask the Minister if he is aware that a few days before this state visit

of the president of China, there was a visit to this country by the chief

executive of Hong Kong. Outside of the Dorchester Hotel the umbrella

movement were playing music and having megaphones and shouting. Can

the Minister tell us what any of the Hong Kong term... Democracy

protesters, were any of them arrested? I do not know, let me find

out. I was not aware. If there is, obviously I will but the House no.

During the visit of President Xi I was meeting with a Chinese

dissidents, human rights lawyer who was granted asylum by the Americans.

He talked about the pressures that human rights activists are facing in

China. The persecution of journalists, and the persecution of

Christians. I appreciate the Minister is not able to talk about

police operations, but it is important that we recognise the

sensitivity of countries like China having seen how democracy doesn't

operate in Britain and that freedom of speech is respected as is the

freedom to demonstrate. I hope the Minister will make sure the

Metropolitan police are made aware of that. The Metropolitan police

amateur artist into the discussions here, I shall also make sure it in

discussions that I have with the much part in police. The fact that

demonstrations were peaceful demonstrations by thousands of

people took place in this country is an example to the world where we can

have demonstrations. What happened with the arrest is an issue that am

I going to go into, we are a democracy where peace-loving people

can demonstrate. Does the policeman is know where the formal commits

have been made to the Metropolitan police? If they have been, but the

minute they think it is appropriate that rather than being dealt with on

an internal investigative measure, they should be referred

automatically to the IP cc because of their sensitivity? I am not aware

whether it is a formal comment Ie complaint has been made, that is a

normal procedure to go to the Metropolitan police and they

themselves can refer it or it can be referred later on what has gone to

the due process of the complaints procedure. I will find out whether

or not the much more than police have arranged for the commission to

write for the Honorable Lady. The Minister may be embarrassed on

behalf of the government distinguished foreign guest, the

understand in this house is embarrassed when one of the

everything people says it feels like when I was in China the police to

pick up signals from the government and the government is in the process

of repeating the Human Rights Act and obligations of the European

convention concluding their Article 11 rights to protest freedom

Association, will he properly investigate the circumstances where

the operation decisions are over to ensure that our feelings are not

unsubstantiated in these matters? Mr Speaker, of course was the

investigation and the decisions are made will all look very carefully at

what went on. To insinuate that the police, because of a feeling they

get from the government's future legislation I think is a stretch of

the imagination. Am grateful to the Minister and participating

colleagues. Become to the urgent question. To after Secretary of

State for culture media, and sport if you make a statement on the

government responsibilities and policies for protecting consumers

and infrastructure following large scale data breaches such as that

suffered by talk talk. Thank you Mr Speaker, let me begin by saying this

is clearly a very serious matter. We are all aware that talk talk

suffered a data breach last week, I want to reassure numbers of these

house and customers that may be affected that on forces are working

and of course continue to go so. I want to commend the chief executive

of Talk Talk for her openness since Talk Talk became aware of the attack

and they know she will do all she can to protect her customers.

Nevertheless, this is a very serious incident. I do understand the

company has offered for support to customers to ensure they are alerted

to any suspicious activity on their bank accounts, I am also reassured

that the financial conduct authority has said that they are not unaware

of any unusual activity at the moment. Also, further advice and

guidance is available in a range of places such as get safe online and

cyber streetlights. However, it is extremely important that companies

do all they can to protect themselves and their customers of

course, from cyber attacks. Its government and the previous

administration have worked extremely hard to ensure that companies to

help the help they need to protect themselves. We have invested ?860

million over five years in the national cyber security programme,

said of the national cyber crime unit Ie unit and launched the cyber

streetlights schemes I am created a number of business is aware of cyber

streetlights has doubled, and the cyber essentials team that sets out

basic technical control more than a thousand baited as have now signed

up to it. A year ago we made it mandatory that any company that

contracted the government should be accredited under the cyber

essentials scheme where appropriate and proportionate. I am also pleased

that almost every 5300 Company has included cyber security on its risk

register. The ten steps to cyber security it Semper Fi version is

available for small and medium enterprises. Recent advancement to

speak or do show how vital it is that we maintain this momentum and

that business is asked at our advice in order to protect their customers

from harm. I'll be writing again to the 5300 company, companies to

rewrite is that the Fed to take and the steps in place. Mr Speaker, the

government take the youth UK cyber security seriously and will continue

to do everything in our power to protect the organisations and

individual, tax. Thank you this Speaker. Thank you for granting the

urgent question. You give criminals a gateway into their lives, I spoke

to one woman who lost ?5,000 in a sophisticated scam following a

previous Talk Talk breach. Today up to 4 million people are wondering

what they do they have lost under where a cyber attack will come

from. They are checking their bank accounts, their collars, their

credit cards, government needs to reassure us our digitalized our

secure and help argued, digital economy to grow. Can the Minister

tell us when he first spoke to Talk Talk about the breach and its

implications and if he is now aware what data was taken and whether it

was encrypted. What obligations were there on Talk Talk to report the

breach to the ICO and to advise customers and he did do it quickly

enough. What might the compensation to Talk Talk have for how long, and

how can they exercise them? Whether he would ask the information

Commissioner to update his guidance in the light of the current

confusion, what additional resources will he have to respond to the up to

4 million inquiries from and the will of this breach the report said

as one cyber crime for many? Mr Speaker, for many years we have been

calling on governments to take action to protect consumers and

citizens cyber scams. This government's data policy is chaos,

illuminated by occasional flashes of incompetence. Will Minister

acknowledge that all the innovation is come from the criminals while the

government sits on its hands leaving it to businesses and consumers to

suffer the consequences. Thank you Mr Speaker. Of course the Honorable

Lady is entitled to ask the questions that she has asked which

are very valid. I think that I have to take issue at the beginning Mr

Speaker with her assertion that the government has somehow been sitting

on its hands. I don't think she heard my response to the urgent

question, we have invested more than ?860 million in cyber security. We

have a number of very, very effective schemes with which to

engage business. It is worth remembering this money was invested

at the time of economic austerity. Was one of the first decisions taken

by the Coalition government. The Honorable Lady asked how many people

have had lost their data, it is a fast-moving situation. I think given

the ongoing investigation, it is still taking place it is remiss of

me to put a final figure on this. Law enforcement agencies were in

touch with Talk Talk from Thursday, we have been and continues

discussions with Talk Talk on this issue since Thursday. In terms of

what data has been taken, the chief executive of Talk Talk has issued a

number of statements on this thing that bank account details have been

given out and also that some credit card details albeit tokenized have

been stolen as well. As far as whether or not Talk Talk report

dated the breach in time for the information Commissioner is office,

they'll be a matter between the information Commissioner and Donna

Commissioner and Talk Talk although I do understand that was reported on

Thursday. Also the case as I understand that any rights of

compensation and how long those will take will take a matter for it be

information Commissioner. I am delighted that the information

Commissioner has since last month within my department, it is this

kind of government that is needed to make it as effective as possible in

terms of our combating cyber crime and cyber fraud. I will certainly

meet with the information Commissioner to discuss these issues

going forward. The police have extensive resources in which to

combat cyber crime, we were the government that did set up the

national cyber crime unit. Thank you very much indeed, Mr Speaker. May I

confirm that will be looking very closely at this issue on the sport

committee, may I ask my Honorable friend whether he noted that much of

this information as it appears had not been encrypted, and whether it

is a case for requiring encryption of customer data in other companies

such as this in the future? I'm delighted the chairman will be

conducting an inquiry into data protection. I am sure it will be

extremely valuable particularly the findings that are, the conclusions

that, the conclusions that come out of that report. It has to be said

that companies should encrypt their information, there has been some

misinformation that the government is somehow against encryption. Mr

Speaker, when these cyber attack on Talk Talk has initiated the problems

faced by governments which failed to protect the interest uncooked

centres to their lightweight regulation of telecoms, for the

third time in this than a year, the 4 million customers out of Talk Talk

have had their confidential details compromised. Once again, the

government and Talk Talk has fallen charts in their response. Now Talk

Talk has attended to downplay the impact of the attack on their

website stating that these core system was not affected. This

ignores the broader use of personal data in fraud and identity theft. Is

estimated that the value of a credit card number two criminal increases

by 500% when combined with the personal details of that

individual. All credit card numbers can expire and change, people names,

addresses, and date of birth do not have evidently, one the criminal has

these they can be used for numerous purposes and Talk Talk clearly is

not taking this seriously enough. In the United States AT was fined ?17

million for failing to protect customer data in the United Kingdom

up in the ICU can only pay fines of up to ?500,000. For a company which

received an annual revenue of nearly 1.8 billion last year, a find that

small will clearly not be terrifying. Deregulation of telecoms

much be strengthened to protect consumers. Will the Secretary of

State agree that telecom providers must be held fully responsible for

failing to protect confidential data and regulation needs to be chanted

to ensure it is, free counselling from TalkTalk is read it meaningless

I'm afraid. . As I said earlier, the information Commissioner office will

be looking at this data breach. They do have extensive powers to take

action at a deed to lead the significant buying. We are always

open on the side of the health suggestions about how that could be

improved as I said in an early answer I'll meet the information

Commissioner office to look at further changes may need to be made

in the light of the data breach. The Internet is the fastest growing

sector of the economy moving from about 6% of GDP in 2011 to 10% now

and growing. In the government's admirable UK cyber strategy, one of

its aims is to make the UK one of the most secure places in the world

to do business in the cyberspace. That will depend on the capabilities

of our law enforcement operation such as the Met police that are

working with TalkTalk today. What can the Minister say to us about

ensuring that our law enforcement offices have the skill that our law

enforcement offices have the skills of the Bohn capabilities which it

needed to tackle cyber crime and maintained at confidence we need to

that we can continue to do pawn business on the Internet. She is

quite right to say that cyber security is, lives at the heart of

the success of our judicial economy. Is absently vital. Customers can

trust the websites to which they go, it is also vital that we have the

right law enforcement capabilities. I am delighted that the parties

national cyber unit has received significant funding and also that we

have regional cyber crime unit as well including the Metropolitan

police who has a very successful cyber crime unit. Mr Speaker, two

years ago the country's most senior police officer on fraud told the

Senate committee that we were not winning the war against cyber crime.

Every single month there are 600,000 cyber attacks against British

companies, we need a 21st-century response to this 21st-century crime.

We seek an urgent meeting with the home Secretary to see if more of the

cyber budget could be put into policing. Could he also see what

could be done to advise and assist British companies are losing ?34

billion every year to cyber crime. Many of these crime, attacks on loss

from the territories of EU partners. This is an international crime, the

government should be commended for putting the money in. We need to do

much more in conjunction with other countries shoe, career out. Thank

you for that question. Given that he has been gracious enough to come in

the government for investing money in this area, let me also meet him

halfway and say of course ministers do meet across departments. There

are a number of departments with that of an interest in this area. Of

course you always look at what more can be done. I will certainly take

his advice and an sure that as this matter continues, we meet as

ministers across departments to look at how we can more effectively

co-ordinate the action taken. I welcome what the Minister says, it

underlies the importance of cyber security skills to our whole

economy. We are under the process of establishing an institute of cyber

security in my constituency which will provide cyber security

apprenticeships along with a range of other courses for smaller

businesses in my area. Signee Jonathan Honorable friend

incrementing in that regard, it is worth pointing out that there are

something like 14 cyber security clusters of United Kingdom. This is

a very important industry which the government continues to support. The

Minister has no doubt aware that yes, many companies have decided to

we think it data protection strategies in the light of some of

the more publicised cases of cyber crime. Apparently, according to

recent surveys some 20% of companies are simply not doing that. I think

the government needs to take much more action to persuade companies to

act, perhaps the Minister would also think about reviewing the

legislation but I think is not fit for purpose and a longer on these

matters. Well, certainly Mr Speaker this is not a case of the government

simply issuing a strategy and then forgetting about it. Be constantly

engaged business, with trade associations, with professional

services as well. You can do a huge amount to advise the businesses who

are their clients. I absolutely think what the honourable lady says

in the spirit in which it was asked that we can, and should engage in

which it was asked that we can, and should engaged changes in

legislation which he thought was necessary and certainty that a

something which you would keep under review as well. This is bigger, I

suggest the home committee chairman that most of these attacks came to

European Union to suggest I could blame the European Union for

something more but something very unfairly in this case. On a serious

point, constituents are getting calls or a parent calls and e-mails

from companies saying that the cores because of the TalkTalk situation

they need to do it them. So we know we are talking to the right person,

and we have your address and date of birth, what does the Minister

advised to my constituents? Clearly, this case has achieved a

great deal of publicity. Common sense therefore tells us that people

would try and somehow scam although the back of it to be my advice to

his constituents would be to put the phone down and also my advice to

Honorable members, if any Honorable member has any issue with any

constituent regarding this case where they feel that that issue is

not being taken seriously, they are welcome to contact us. I was not

clear from the Minister's response to the chairman of the Senate

committee whether the date that that has been stolen from TalkTalk and

whether he was able to ascertain whether that was raw data or

encrypted data because it is a lot of concern out there. Isn't it part

of the problem here that all this information has to be given online

and has no opportunity for other forms IE which was safer and then

the book feel more secure in giving the state of in a way that they have

copies. The honourable gentleman makes an interesting point. We noted

in a Digital world and we'll see more and more companies engaging

with their customers on a digital platform. Indeed, it is important to

stress Mr Speaker this is customers do find convenient. All of us in his

house transact with many of our organisations visited the. So, am

not sure we can go backwards that respect. The challenge for

government is to engage with business and to emphasise to them as

he had not been shy in doing, the importance of maintaining proper

cyber security. With what appears to the been an increase in frequency of

cyber attacks, as my right honourable friend agree that

business who handles personal data such as bank account details must

not put in place copperhead the procedures to assure customers are

assured immediately if their data may have been breached by cyber

attacks? It is very important at all businesses have, particularly those

handing significant and sensitive amounts of customer data to have

robust procedures in place both to protect that data and to inform

customers where they may have been a data breach. Can be meant to say

whether he has had any meetings with the home office to discuss

legislative changes that are required and also whether he has

thought about using the direct communication skills each seems to

me and I deal bill which will be coming before the House later this

month my understanding? Whether that would be a matter for the home

office, we do have plans to sit down with ministers are across

departments to discuss any possible adjusted changes that need to be

made. May still be aware that there are discussions in the European

Union about updating data protection legislation, I wonder what outcomes

for consumers the Minister would like to see the chance of achieving

them at a second point, if anyone has lost up and result of this data

protection breach, would it be TalkTalk or the bank that would be

liable for Konz compensating those consumers? Study, we would be

working for many years now on the data protection regulations in the

European commission, it is almost on the point of being completed. It has

always been a very important principle from the UK's perspective

that we put the consumer and the citizens at the centre of that. That

is their data and it is their right to own that data and be sure that

data is used. As I said earlier, this would be a matter between the

information commission office and talk talk as to any or appropriate

levels of compensation. Since the election, the number of people

working for the government's Beta services has declined. The placement

of a chief data officer still has not been made, what impact has that

had on the advice that ministers are getting from officials about data

protection? And the security of online digital services in

government? I thank think he is referring to the office that is

responsible for an important speech on its future today. It is actually

successful part of government, he can rest assured that the government

takes the protection of citizens data on its own extremely seriously.

I better start by declaring an interest, I am a customer for talk

talk talktalk and have not been contacted by the Company either by

e-mail or any other way, the question I would like to put to the

Minister is have ministers considered ways by which consumers

can actually assess whether the providers of any of the services

have robust mechanisms in terms of cyber security in place? At the

moment we are completing blindsided as consumers. I think the Honorable

the Lady makes it very valuable point. In many cases it is as set

out if she me detailed terms and conditions, I think the idea that

those are consumer friendly would be wide of the mark. I I take as it as

a worthy spirit of her questions, some kind of kite mark or way of

denoting companies that have robust cyber security procedures in place

would be something worth exploring. Order! Moving from the latest in

data protection to a more traditional format of it, can I ask

your advice on a matter concerning the Administration Committee of the

House of which I served. I was late for anything on the 12th of

October, I was surprised to discover that a motion had been rushed the

committee in the very first few seconds of deciding to change the

means by which we record act of Parliament which is been the case

for a thousand years or more to paper. Mr Speaker, I was surprised I

immediately read my opposition to that and said I agree with it, I was

very surprised to discover this morning that when the order, reports

was reduced it appears to be a unanimous decision of the committee

including my name in eight. Mr Speaker am I right in thinking

because the use was brought in by an order of the House, its removal

would also require a vote of this house, if that is the case would

that be an opportunity for me both to register Madison property? An

also to try to encourage honourable member we are now going over lives

to the House of Lords. Will turn to the House of Commons after the votes

which is expected at about half past five, you can follow live coverage

of both chambers of on our website. Instead, this is a Dailymotion, it

is not as the government knows, it was drafted with the help of the

clerks. It calls for a scheme of transitional protection before the

House further considers this essentially, my lords the courts

would apply to the new payments on the new payments only. Frankly, that

could be drafted in a week. And implemented next April exactly as

planned. Does it none the less my lords break prevention by

trespassing on commoners financial privilege? No. The advice, can be

referred by words on the specific issue as that comments financial

privilege is exercised in two ways. Begin and then an education bill

that the laws can reject our amendment