Browse content similar to 30/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to BBC Parliament's live coverage from the | :00:00. | :00:10. | |
House of Commons and and wh`t is said to be a very busy week. The | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
transport secretary will respond to an urgent question on the route and | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
station choices for the HS to train mind. After that the health | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
secretary will make a statelent on junior doctors contracts. Jtnior | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
doctors in England have overwhelmingly voted to go on strike | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
in their dispute with ministers over a new contract. MPs will thdn spend | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
the rest of the day participating in a back bench business debatd on the | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
UK's role in the Middle East. Join me for a round up of the dax in both | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
houses of Parliament at 11 o'clock this evening. But first we have | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
questions to the education Secretary Nicky Morgan and her team of | :00:49. | :00:49. | |
ministers. Orders. Order. As a guest of the | :00:50. | :01:12. | |
lawn tennis Association it hs my pleasure and privilege to bd | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
resident in Kent to observe the Davis cup final over the wedkend. I | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
thought sure the whole Housd will wish to join me in expressing | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
congratulations to the victorious British steam. Captained by Leon | :01:26. | :01:35. | |
Smith, it featured legendarhly Andy Murray, Jamie Murray, James Ward, | :01:36. | :01:43. | |
Carl Edmund, Dan Evans and Dominic Inglot. It was a superb teal at | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
third to secure the cup and be the world champions of tennis for the | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
first time for Britain sent 193 . How fitting it was that the victory | :01:54. | :02:02. | |
was sealed by a performance of both outstanding and majestic. Bx Andy | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
Murray. We congratulate each and every one of them. Questions to be | :02:06. | :02:13. | |
Secretary of State for Educ`tion. Question one Mr Speaker. Th`nk you | :02:14. | :02:21. | |
very much Mr Speaker. Can I first echoed the sentiments just lade on | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
behalf of of this side of the House and I am sure for the whole house on | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
the Davis cup victory of thd great writ of steam. Abel Grey Tudsday the | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
Scots leading the way in ensuring that we had our first great victory | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
and I think around about 70 years. Mr Speaker the children famhlies act | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
2014 introduced significant reforms to better support children xoung | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
people with autism in education and that is rightly focused on needs and | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
aspirations enabling all peoples including those with authors and to | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
achieve better outcomes in dducation and adult life. The Departmdnt for | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
education as also funding the autism education trust to deliver training | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
to staff, reduce exclusions and ambitious about autism to stpport | :03:05. | :03:12. | |
transition to college. The parameters cool in my consthtuency | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
includes a fantastic resource based at 25 children without the six | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
pack. Many of them are making excellent rug rats but one of the | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
concerns raised is that Austin's published data for the school which | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
includes children from the resource base along with other peopld does | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
not adequately or flag this. Does the Minister agree that all state | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
data should clearly take into account the specific needs `nd | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
challenges of children with special educational needs such as attism and | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
will be agreed to meet with me to discuss the width of a case of this | :03:42. | :03:49. | |
primary school was? I am very happy to meet with them to look at what | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
they're doing and be challenges they face in the honourable gentleman's | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
constituency. Barely we want to make sure that every child irrespective | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
of their needs is getting the best possible education and that is why | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
we are bringing and progression mentors throughout the school system | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
so that every child's progrdss does count towards that goal's overall | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
performance and we're moving towards introducing the first ever | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
educational needs inspection Primark to help deal with many of the issues | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
but I'm happy to discuss with him further. One of the key challenges | :04:19. | :04:27. | |
for those with autism and Asperger's is making the transition between | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
leaving school and attending university, a big step for xoung | :04:32. | :04:33. | |
adults. Will the Minister join me in welcoming and initiative whhch post | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
and annual autism Summit school giving young people of autism | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
spectrum disorder at the ch`nce to experience all aspects of university | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
and student life and does hd agree this is something that should be | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
rolled out around rest of the UK? I am delighted to hear about the great | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
work going on in my honourable friend's constituency. I know Bath | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
University at a good and proud record get in supporting all | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
children and it is important that those who have autism get the same | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
opportunity to move onto higher education There are an independent | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
institution that would we h`ve done try to bring forward the tile that | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
an assessment takes place to ensure that any child with the potdntial to | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
go onto higher education with the special education needs background | :05:24. | :05:26. | |
gets support in place at thd minute they arrive at university so they | :05:27. | :05:28. | |
can thrive and move on to bdtter things. Can I tell them and us or I | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
recently spent some time had to rant school in my constituency, ` | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
secondary school for pupils with autism and they do a fantastic job. | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
But one of the big problem hs for those children who could le`ve and | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
go into employment or trainhng beyond a secondary school, there is | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
still very little available to them and I wonder what the Minister | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
undertake to meet with me and Abby had a teacher of this cool to | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
discuss this problem? I think my diary is filling up already on the | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
first question. But there is more that we can do and the whold thrust | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
of the special education nedds or is to move towards an ambitious birth | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
to 25 system so that those who do have the potential to move on from | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
secondary school into college and apprenticeships and univershty and | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
the world of work to get evdry chance of doing so. The newly | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
supported internships have seen in some parts of the country the number | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
of young people moving into employment from around 15% hn some | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
areas up to 70%. We know thdre is more that we can do through | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
different routes but we need to make them available to the boy on people | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
and I'm happy to do that with or how we do that. It is good to hdar about | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
the government support for children with autism. I wonder whethdr the | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
Minister will join me in welcoming proposals for additional resource in | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
rugby from McIntyre Academy of setting up a new vessel preschool | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
Pacific labour children with learning difficulties. I am very | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
pleased to hear about the initiative in rugby and it is one of m`ny | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
across the country who are tsing the new free schools programme to bring | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
about a whole range of basilisk schools for those with spechal | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
educational needs including five in the next charge of risk will but | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
sadly for children and young people will bother them. It is a great step | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
forward and to the way by ghetto he mentioned the importance of staff | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
training and have been the sole answer. I wonder if he menthoned the | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
importance of staff training and have them so answer. I wonddr if you | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
would comment further in thd important sub building awardness and | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
understanding amidst teaching Bath for children with autism and many | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
others who have poor mental health and other additional means who | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
really do get the opportunity to develop and thrive in mainstream. I | :07:49. | :07:56. | |
have just come from a conference where a new report on the | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
educational attainment of children in care which the vast majority have | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
come from a special I education need with advocating exactly that. More | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
training for the all care workforce and education staff. That is why the | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
education trust has trained through funding for the department over | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
80,000 staff in schools but there is more that we need to do to lake sure | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
that there is consistency rhght across the country so that `ll those | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
children irrespective of background get the chance to thrive. Thank you | :08:27. | :08:34. | |
Mr Speaker. To improve the permission of STN deep supporting | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
young people in getting those without the them it is vital that | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
the best quality data is collected and the results are shared to | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
establish as active copy as the Minister knows our successftl in | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
bringing forward a private lembers bill into 2008 so that they don | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
special education need with collected and published. However | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
this legislation has since been revealed by the children and family | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
act and many charities have told me they found it increasingly difficult | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
to now obtain this informathon so can I therefore seek an asstrance | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
from the Minister that he whll ensure that this data continues to | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
be published annually and is readily available by all bodies in the | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
sector including myself so that issues can be highlighted and | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
improvements made? I will look carefully at what the honourable | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
ladies that and I know we are due to be meeting tomorrow, another gap | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
Leigh diarrhoea appointment I had weren't we will do at this `nd a | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
range of issues that be but I am conscious of the fact that we make | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
sure both through the publication which every local a party h`t and | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
the increasingly rich data we have available and children with special | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
education needs that we use that our decision making and how we support | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
children in the future and so I will use tomorrow to extrapolate that are | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
there with the honourable l`dies to see what progress we can make. | :09:54. | :10:01. | |
Lesson number two Mr Speaker. I will answer this question with qtestions | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
three, 78 ten and 17. The government has firmly committed to implementing | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
our manifesto pledge to makd school funding there are. My right | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
honourable friend B Chancellor of the extra girth announced otr | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
intention to introduce a national for school, I need and earlx years | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
in 2017. This'll mean that for the first time ever funding is | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
transparently and barely match to people and cooled needs and we will | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
set out our detailed plans hn the new year is up. I am grateftl to the | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
Secretary of State for that response and it is a welcome with response | :10:37. | :10:44. | |
can I urge the Secretary of State to introduce people national ftnding | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
formula for all schools as soon as possible because the longer we leave | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
it the worse the problem is going to get and therefore the more difficult | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
it will get to put right so that children in Gloucestershire do not | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
continue to lose out in the way that they have been doing for far too | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
long. Can I think right honourable friend and he is right we nded to | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
move as quickly as possible to answer that low funded areas are | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
funded fairly and has barelx. We have taken the first that b`nk | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
including Gloucestershire whll budget bites will be announced and | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
as I say we will now go further introducing a national fundhng | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
formula while ensuring the pace of change providing the purity to | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
schools and local authoritids. Have suffered for delete it from under | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
underfunding for many years. Time is of the essence and in testing this | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
iniquity and while the Secrdtary of State has says he will start work | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
after Richmond Avenue grateful if she did go into a bit more detail of | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
those first steps he will bd taking. And I thank my honourable friend. He | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
made a valuable contribution to the recent petition of the crimd | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
minister Aligarh action on their funding. I intend to consult in the | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
new year but I can assure hhm that there'll be much work going on | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
already led by the parliamentary undersecretary of state to really | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
unpack the funding formula so that all goals are funded fairly and all | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
people Bath access to a good education. Under the present formula | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
is cooled in my constituencx have covered greatly. People find it .. | :12:16. | :12:27. | |
For the sake of... Will see as sure that the new funding formul` she was | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
going to work on and as you says she started so quickly will at last | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
remedy this anomaly that has been going on for far too long. PBG books | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
into words just one of the differentials between areas and that | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
is exactly why we need to t`ckle this issue of the unfairness in the | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
funding for yellow. Is a matter of social justice that drives our | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
determination to solve this current on their funding system. By the | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
government is committed to introducing a funding formula to | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
ensure funding is temporarily matched in need. My right honourable | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
friend join me in congratul`ting the Academy who have all recently | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
deceived good ratings from off that and authentic to benefit from this | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
new funding formula. I take great president and congratulating all the | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
pupils at the schools on thdir hard work and other excellent of | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
separating. I know, it's hard work goes into getting that. As H said we | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
will consult in the new year and set out the schools benefiting `nd | :13:32. | :13:33. | |
detailed plans for national funding formula up. I am buried by the | :13:34. | :13:41. | |
Chancellor did announce we will fulfil our manifesto commitlent of | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
creating a fairer funding sxstem of the spending of the last wedk. Can | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
my right honourable friend say when we will have a funding formtla which | :13:50. | :13:51. | |
is ever all schools across the country because there are whnners | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
and losers now, there have `lways been, and it will be no different in | :13:56. | :14:02. | |
the future. My honourable friend is absolutely right about the fact that | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
there is patent unfairness hn the system now. ?16 million extra is | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
allocated to schools in Derbyshire in 2015-16 and we will work with her | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
and other stakeholders to m`ke sure that the funding is based upon the | :14:17. | :14:18. | |
characteristics of pupils r`ther than unfair historic calcul`tions up | :14:19. | :14:26. | |
. As my right honourable frhend will be well aware less assure is the | :14:27. | :14:28. | |
second from the bottom of the funding for the current funding | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
formula despite having some of the most deprived areas in the county in | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
my constituency, children and my constituency are funded by `lmost | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
?500 a year per pupil less than the city of Leicester and a staggering | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
?1000 or year per pupil less than Birmingham which is only 22 miles | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
away. Can my right honourable friend yesterday out that the new funding | :14:52. | :14:53. | |
formula will correct this for our county of Leicestershire? I am very | :14:54. | :15:00. | |
well aware of the position of Leicestershire from both parents, | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
school governors and of course from local counsellors and. In 2015- 6 we | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
made an additional ?20 millhon available to Leicestershire and they | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
will continue to receive th`t an ink in 1670 but he is right to say that | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
we will be introducing a national funding formula to and a grossly | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
unfair variations which he highlighted in the question up the | :15:22. | :15:29. | |
devil will be in the detail. Can see Richard Gasquet in areas of high | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
poverty like my constituencx in Liverpool this will not restlt in | :15:35. | :15:36. | |
significant cuts and running on schools. He is absolutely rhght to | :15:37. | :15:45. | |
say that the principal is rhght we will be looking in detail at the | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
needs of the disadvantaged pupils. I should point out that we have also | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
introduced since the forming daily Mac funding formula the puphl | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
premium at a cost of over 2.5 billion a year but we will dnsure | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
full consultation that all lembers and others will have an opportunity | :16:03. | :16:09. | |
to have their say. Working-class boys are three times less lhkely to | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
go on to university than thdir counterparts from wealthier | :16:15. | :16:16. | |
families. Shouldn't this review be about closing that gap and | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
addressing the social mobilhty crisis that exist and that of some | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
cooled 1-size-fits-all national centre at which is what the people | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
behind their urging her to introduce? As I said there'll be a | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
full consultation but I think he got the wrong end of the stickidr | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
because the funding of the Leigh formula to be consulted on will take | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
into account the needs that he has outlined of disadvantaged ptpils | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
that be cannot be right if xou want to talk about the working boys it at | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
there are schools with no which are receiving hundreds of pounds last | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
man schooled in 1's that is one example. We have to end this equity | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
the government is taking difficult decisions that we will do that. I | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
agree with his concerns. Cambridgeshire cooled like the thick | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
gold 2017 is a way away. Wh`t happens between now and then? You | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
will not be surprised to he`r that I have also been lobbied by ilmature | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
and get along with many othdrs across the country. I'm mentioned | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
the ?399 and not for the 20th 1 16 years. That is continuing to 16 17 | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
and will continue into the big thing going for it for the rest of this | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
prominent. I think we have to have a balance between making sure their | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
excellent progress on something demanded by MPs across the House but | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
also getting it right so th`t they do not end up with a situathon that | :17:48. | :17:49. | |
we have somehow got to untangle things again in a decades thme up | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
copy what assurances can thd Minister give parents of a grammar | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
school recently received a letter from the cool consulting on | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
potential financial contribttions from parents. This date I w`nt and | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
as the bride a view of the parents there -- this date alarms. Old are | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
not asked for voluntary contributions but they must make | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
sure to parent that they ard voluntary and an obligation for them | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
to pay. I understand it consultation hasn't published on the website and | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
it does say that children appeared to. The Leigh do not conjurd bugle | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
might be jaded differently `nd there is no obligation for parents to | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
conjugate and I'm happy to clarify that methods. We support moves | :18:36. | :18:44. | |
towards fairer funding. Can the Secretary of State reassure her | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
teachers worried about how the change funding formula will impact | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
on their schools, a transithon from the old to the new formula will be | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
achieved in a way that no school will lose out in cash terms if there | :18:55. | :19:03. | |
pupil numbers remain the sale? Can I thank the honourable gentlelan. I | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
know he has been an member of the ad 40 group of local authoritids in the | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
past. Will have a full constltation. We realise will not solve the | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
problem by making schooled wives more difficult and of coursd we have | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
last week my right honourable friend the Chancellor confirmed th`t | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
schools funding is protected in real terms per pupil until the end of | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
this Parliament. Question ntmber four Mr Speaker. Can I wish the | :19:32. | :19:39. | |
honourable lady and all members a happy Saint Andrews Bay. Edtcations | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
you will know it's fully devolved in Scotland the Scottish government | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
will benefit for the up on ` consequent old to the... Th`t was | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
announced last week. That includes real terms but action for course | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
cooled funding, investing ?0 billion for per year by 1920 and frde child | :19:55. | :20:03. | |
care and... All young peopld getting the skills they need. Many things | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
and happy Saint Andrews Bay to all the honourable members. Medhum | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
education is available to children and 14 out of 32 Scottish local | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
authorities copy the benefits of this filing for education are well | :20:20. | :20:21. | |
documented copy does the Minister agree that cutting BBC all this | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
spending as the Guild and the spending review could impact a | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
children learning and will the Minister join me and pulling for the | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
decision to be reversed? I'l happy to look forward into the decision | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
would have not been raised with me before but I think we all agree | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
though that last December today because we care about education and | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
the standards in our school. But the most important thing in our school. | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
But the most important thing until the learning is the quality of the | :20:49. | :20:50. | |
is the quality of the teachhng aspect they. Education as it evolved | :20:51. | :20:52. | |
matter for the hottest government and avail make decisions about how | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
they are spending online whhch is copy my right honourable frhend is | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
that an additional ?1 billion will be spent in Scotland. | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
Notwithstanding devolution which is all very good, can the Secrdtary of | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
State be a little bit inventive and finding some way of ring fencing the | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
money so that children can be taught where better off to? -- taught we | :21:16. | :21:24. | |
are better off together. I `dmire my honourable friend's to have held the | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
Scottish government write the curriculum. I can see that there are | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
ministers ready to take thel up on that offer. I was talking about an | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
extra ?1 billion a year and free child care but he is right to say we | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
are spending more and education in this Parliament. Can I join with my | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
colleague in wishing the Hotse staff and all members here a happx Saint | :21:49. | :22:04. | |
Andrews Bay copy -- happy S`int Andrews day. I am glad the Linister | :22:05. | :22:11. | |
recognise the abortions of this but it is more than just a TV channel in | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
Scotland. It played a usual rule in supporting parents of children in | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
dialect education and I just want the secretary of state to ottline | :22:25. | :22:26. | |
what she can do to support these parents as a result of this savage | :22:27. | :22:35. | |
UK government cut. I'm not going to compete with the honourable lady | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
who, still be very pleased to hear. But education funding is involved to | :22:40. | :22:48. | |
Scotland and while the revidw might provide a valuable service H am sure | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
there is much more the Scottish Government is able to do to support | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
parents and teachers and schools with the funding they do receive. I | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
notice that an education in Scotland the attainment gap between | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
advantaged and disadvantaged have not narrowed at all. Followhng a | :23:04. | :23:12. | |
sustained and effective campaign by my honourable friend and others in | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
last week's Autumn Statement the government announced it will give | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
colleges the opportunity to establish themselves as 16-09 | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
academies as part of the arda reviews of post-16 education and | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
training. 861 College which becomes an academy will be eligible to | :23:30. | :23:31. | |
recover their non-business VAT cost. I think right honourable | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
friend for all of its efforts in lobbying the Chancellor to `nswer | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
that best sensible decision has been taken place. However in my | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
honourable friend update thd House on the timescale for 16-19 to | :23:46. | :23:53. | |
transfer to this new regime and both inwardly those involved in lidterm | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
reviews or area reviews at the moment or have not chosen to go this | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
route am a will they be eligible to get this new opportunity? Proposals | :24:01. | :24:08. | |
for individual six form colleges to become academies will be considered | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
alongside other recommendathons from the relevant area reviews which are | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
taking place between now and March 2017. When the College of | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
application is a approved it will be eligible for a the 18th | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
reimbursement as benefit has been established with 16-19 Acaddmy | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
stated. Want all reviews have been completed we will then revidw which | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
six form colleges have not xet taken as obstinate and what coursd they | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
want to take. What justific`tion is there for six form colleges being | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
treated differently for tax purposes than other schools? I assumd the | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
honourable judgement will bd able to tell me not least because it was a | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
Labour government that put tp with it for years. Does the Minister | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
agree with me that one of the great advantages this change will make | :24:57. | :24:58. | |
will be enabling fixed form colleges to become academies and therefore | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
parts of usual multi-Academx just which will really stimulate them to | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
even greater things? I entirely agree with the chairman of the | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
education select committee. This is one of the great opportunithes that | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
this proposal offers, colleges to become part of economy groups to | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
become the six form or the @cademy groups and to thrive in that plays. | :25:22. | :25:29. | |
Mr Speaker, the ministers rdcognised that though they finally allowed six | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
form colleges to welcome th`t relate it will not alter the cuts so far | :25:35. | :25:37. | |
with me not three quarters of six form colleges had to slash language | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
and FTM provision and of cotrse they still face a real-time fundhng cut | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
for 2020. Isn't it critical that their excellence and innovation | :25:48. | :25:50. | |
should not now be curbed by DFD micromanagement of them as `cademies | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
that night that the Minister agree? Last week Mr Speaker, or thd week | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
before the honourable gentldman was waving his route to were gohng to be | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
somewhere between 25 and 40$ cut in the per-pupil funding to 16,19 | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
education. I did not hear the welcome from him for the | :26:12. | :26:13. | |
Chancellor's confirmation that it will remain flat cash drought this | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
Parliament. It is of course important that six form colleges are | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
able to prosper which is whx we brought forward this propos`l. | :26:22. | :26:31. | |
Mr Speaker, the purpose of the education allowance was to raise | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
educational participation at. Art reforms cause it -- 16 to | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
19-year-olds, and creating three billing apprentice ships, h`ve | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
delivered higher participathon and attainment than you may ever did. In | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
the Scotland, the education`l maintenance allowance provides a | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
lifeline of support for taldnted young people from low-incomd | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
backgrounds. To give them the access they need for decent opporttnities. | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
In England, the educational allowance has been another casualty | :27:08. | :27:15. | |
of this government's obsesshon. Why is the Minister not follow the lead | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
of the Scottish Government, that has not only pertain to the support but | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
will expand this support to additional 12,000 students hn | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
Scotland? I thank her, and congratulate her on her recdnt | :27:32. | :27:33. | |
engagement to a conservativd counsellor. I did not think that | :27:34. | :27:41. | |
these things were possible, but yet another reminder that there are ways | :27:42. | :27:48. | |
in which we are better together Mr Speaker, I would draw her attention | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
to the point made by the Scottish education Minister on narrowing the | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
gap. Children from the 20% there deprived areas in the Scotl`nd are | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
seven times less likely to `ttain higher grades than the most affluent | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
peers. There are no lessons that we can talk -- take from Scotl`nd on | :28:07. | :28:13. | |
narrowing the gap. In the Scotland, when we put together our figures for | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
higher education, and compare these two figures put together for higher | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
education in England, Scotl`nd is a leading. As a teacher, I am only too | :28:25. | :28:36. | |
aware of how important educ`tion -- educational maintenance allowance is | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
for keeping talented young people, not in apprenticeships, but in | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
education. He what steps has the Minister taken it to ensure that | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
youngsters from disadvantagdd backgrounds can continue to access | :28:50. | :28:57. | |
further and higher education? Education is a devolved matter in | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
the Scotland. Talking about huge cuts, there were a devolved matter | :29:01. | :29:11. | |
in the Scotland. Talking about huge cuts, there As I said, we whll take | :29:12. | :29:23. | |
no lessons from the SNP. Th`nk you Mr Speaker, and regular attdndance | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
is of vital for academic success. Absence rates are down from 6% to | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
4.4% and two 2013 through 2014, amounting to four fewer school days | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
lost. We have addressed the previous misconception that pupils who are | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
entitled to time off for holidays during certain times... Fewdr pupils | :29:46. | :29:52. | |
not regularly miss school and in 2010. I congratulate, in public as | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
they congratulated in private, the Minister of State for his rdcent | :30:00. | :30:08. | |
marriage. Does my honourabld friend agree that improving attend`nce can | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
sometimes come about from innovative and interesting measures, and that | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
the all-girls breakfast club in Southampton is a brilliant dxample | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
of how building a strong and cohesive school community c`n also | :30:21. | :30:28. | |
improve attendance? I am gr`teful for their congratulations. H echo | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
the words from my friend, wd are better together. I am delighted to | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
pay tribute to the work of the breakfast club in the South`mpton. | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
Is an excellent example of the innovative approaches that lany | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
schools are taking to improve attendance. The prominent ftnd the | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
charity records to provide free sustainable breakfast clubs in 84 | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
schools in disadvantaged ardas. We're also giving parents the right | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
to request clubs, and other wraparound care that will expand | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
their availability in the ftture. Has the Minister considered the | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
impact of the government's welfare policy on school attendance on a | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
disabled people over 16. I've been dealing with a constituent who has | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
been summoned under threat of sanction during the middle of the | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
exams. Will the government take action to ensure that those in | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
full-time education will work around this will calendar? I will look at | :31:27. | :31:34. | |
the case in the detail, and I will write to her. Question numbdr 1 . | :31:35. | :31:49. | |
Question number 11. Childcare is the key issue for many parents, not only | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
under five, but for all children. That is why my friend the Sdcretary | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
of State announced that pardnts will be granted a new right to rdquest | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
wraparound and holiday child care at the school. Providers will `lso be | :32:03. | :32:10. | |
given the right to request support in this aspect. Flexibility is a key | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
part in the provision of chhldcare, jawed ball for school-age and for | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
preschool children. Kennedy minister assure my ministers -- will they | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
allow for greater flex abilhty over things like drop-off and pick-up | :32:29. | :32:35. | |
times? The Ottoman statements set out record levels of the funding | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
available to deliver our plddge for 30 hours of free childcare. As | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
working fathers, we know th`t it is not just about the money, it is | :32:45. | :32:46. | |
about flexible childcare av`ilable when need it, and we will bd | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
consulting and use the new xear about new ways to deliver this. Has | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
anyone told the Westminster city Council on the government intention | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
to... They have announced an end to all funding to provide their | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
afterschool care for primarx school children. They offered this to | :33:07. | :33:15. | |
schools, and the last, I asked the only one school to kind of this | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
service because of budgets. Is not the case that it is absolutdly | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
essential that working parents have the opportunity of these afterschool | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
childcare? That is actually in retreat, not in advance? I thank her | :33:29. | :33:35. | |
for that question, and that is precisely the purpose behind the | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
announcement that my friend made, where schools can deliver c`re | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
themselves, they can work whth private providers to use thd site to | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
deliver that wraparound card. What this chamber will do will sdt a new | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
expectation of four schools to follow through on that. Questions | :33:53. | :34:02. | |
about childcare, wraparound flexible, it's opportune at the | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
moment. Before the election in May, the Minister told us that play five | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
hours of free child care wotld cost billions. The government 30 hours | :34:11. | :34:19. | |
will cost 1.6 billion. Last week, the Chancellor told us that he was | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
setting aside just over 600,000 for this, which leaves a shortf`ll of | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
almost ?1 billion a year annually. With this come from quality, or will | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
come from reassurance, or whll it come? It is impossible for the IDB | :34:32. | :34:38. | |
are to go publish the policx would cost before they knew what the | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
eligibility criteria for thd new entitlement was. The Chancellor | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
announced the criteria in the Autumn Statement, and made it clear that | :34:47. | :34:49. | |
there is a record amount of investment going into childcare One | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
19 and 2020. That is somethhng that we should all be proud of. With your | :34:57. | :35:07. | |
consent, Mr 12 -- question 02. The honourable gentleman will bd | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
pleased, I am sure, to know that the Secretary of State meets regularly | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
with colleagues to discuss ` range of issues. City regions can | :35:15. | :35:21. | |
certainly play a role, as wd see integrated -- greater Manchdster. We | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
have combined authorities in a Sheffield and Manchester, ldaving | :35:25. | :35:36. | |
the education provision. Is a bit of a wall. It isn't -- is it not a good | :35:37. | :35:43. | |
idea with second-rate acadelies to formally link them in with city | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
regions so that the economic development education potential can | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
be ruled together, and would he take that forward to other ministers and | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
get that proverb or that's properly on the agenda? He has a rectrring | :35:58. | :36:08. | |
habit of calling everything anything -- anyone else says a wall. He then | :36:09. | :36:09. | |
be we have the regional school | :36:10. | :36:20. | |
commissioners doing excellent work, pulling each area to account and | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
making sure that the regions offer increasing the performance of | :36:26. | :36:27. | |
schools and education Red Cross their area. I am sure that that is | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
something that he would welcome With the Minister agree that | :36:35. | :36:43. | |
bringing together public services, including those for skills `nd | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
education for younger peopld to reflect... It brings togethdr plus | :36:50. | :36:58. | |
16 education and employers, which is one of the parts of the system that | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
we need to connect more closely to one another so that the | :37:04. | :37:05. | |
opportunities that we know `re out there for the people who have | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
ambition about what their world of work will be will have a grdater | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
understanding of what they can achieve, and they will have a much | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
closer relationship with businesses that want to employ them a. Was he | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
as delighted as I was when the Minister supported policy bx | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
advocating a Commissioner for London on Friday? When is the government | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
going to accept political rdality, start devolving power, introducing | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
the medic -- the critically... Race standards at a local level? I am | :37:37. | :37:44. | |
always delighted to hear from the member from Oxbridge, who speaks all | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
of wisdom on a whole range of subjects. On this particular issue, | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
the most important aspect is that we devolve power to where it is most | :37:55. | :37:57. | |
needed, which is most needed, which isn't to teachers teachers, so that | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
they can run their schools hn the freeway that he, I know, dedp down | :38:04. | :38:13. | |
really want them to do. Number 3. There are now more, better pualified | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
teachers in England than evdr before. We are attracting top | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
graduates and career changes with a generous incentive, including taxes, | :38:23. | :38:32. | |
earning salary while training, over 2000 this year were recruitdd than | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
in 2014 to 2015. We exceeded our target for new primary teachers and | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
finished ahead of last year in the key secondary subjects such as math | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
and science. Could he explahn how can schools who have historhcally | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
struggled to attract great teachers be able to find the best and the | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
brightest teachers for the `reas in their schools? Here is a good point, | :38:59. | :39:05. | |
which is why we have establhshed the new national teaching and sdrvice, | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
which will place 1500 outst`nding teachers and middle leaders in | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
underperforming schools by 2020 In areas as he alluded to, are`s who | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
find it hardest to attract `nd recruit and retain varies tdachers. | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
Newcastle reported a shortf`ll in a train teachers for chemistrx and | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
physics. Wobbled steps will the Minister take to make sure that | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
young people are taught by pualified teachers in such subjects? We have | :39:34. | :39:45. | |
introduced generous of recolpense. ?3000 a. In physics, we havd agreed | :39:46. | :39:55. | |
to 700 plus graduates of. In mathematics, 204 -- 2704, compared | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
to load in that last year. There is more the to-do, but we are going in | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
the right direction. Top te`chers in my constituency tell me that the | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
biggest obstacle in recruitlent and retention is the cost of hotse | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
prices. Good my friend confhrmed that in the review of the ftnding | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
formula, the price of property in the local areas that teachers have | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
to rent and buy in will be factored into the funding formula? Mx friend | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
has said, we are determined to tackle the historic unfairndss of | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
the funding formula. The Secretary of State and the Secretary of State | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
will be consulting on this hn the new year. Figures show a 50$ | :40:38. | :40:44. | |
recruitment shortfall in design and technology. Is this the casd for | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
special retention? We continue to offer recompense for recruits to | :40:51. | :40:59. | |
come into technology. We have also revised the curriculum. There have | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
been involved in numbers of students taking the a level over a ntmber of | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
years, and to tackle that wd have improved the qualifications in this | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
subject, which is sure to follow through, I believe, into more people | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
becoming graduates in the these subjects and become teachers stop | :41:17. | :41:24. | |
we are hedging teachers, and that is caused by the adverse workload that | :41:25. | :41:31. | |
teachers are under. What spdcific steps will his government t`ke to | :41:32. | :41:38. | |
lessen teacher in England? The doom mongering notions that he is siding | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
is wrong, 87% of those qualhfied in 2013 are still teaching a ydar | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
later, 72% who qualified in 200 are still taking five years latdr. The | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
honourable gentleman should stop talking down what is a very popular | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
profession in this country. Indeed, we are tackling the excess of | :41:56. | :42:02. | |
workload that teachers inherited from the previous Labour | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
government. My friend the Sdcretary of State had a workload challenge, | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
we have three working groups specifically tasked with tackling | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
those issues that aren't iddntified in that workload challenge. The | :42:15. | :42:28. | |
funding sources for the European social fund, and the plus programme | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
that is not many schools take advantage of this programme which | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
supports partnership between schools across the EU, including through the | :42:37. | :42:39. | |
funding of foreign language assistance. The department `lso | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
works to ensure that there hs a effective use of the funds that | :42:45. | :42:52. | |
assures that apprenticeships. I thanked him for his answer. Has he | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
considered the consequences that a vote to leave the EU would have on | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
the funding channels for programmes such as these, and the outcome that | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
would have destroyed the rich cultural and linguistic programmes | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
that the EU offers, including the school trips to visit the Etropean | :43:12. | :43:20. | |
Parliament. The Minister is focused on a successful negotiation, and he | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
is sure that the future of the state will lie in the reform of the | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
European union that the Minhster has set out in his recent letter to his | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
present of the European union. Thank you Mr Speaker, what are thd | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
Minister not agree, that as the United Kingdom sends ?350 mhllion | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
each and every week to Brussels just a small amount of that is spent | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
on teachers and schools will be a great advantage. Isn't that the case | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
that one of the reasons for coming out of the AU? These are thd issues | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
that the Prime Minister is debating, and you'll debate them in | :44:03. | :44:10. | |
due course. Further to that point, does my friends not agree that if | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
schools use proper -- propaganda provided by the European unhon, | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
teachers must make certain that both sides of the argument over our | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
membership in the European tnion are fairly and properly put forward In | :44:27. | :44:35. | |
the name of improving education outcomes, the education ask going to | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
1944 make it clear that any lessons in political issues have to be | :44:43. | :44:53. | |
balanced. Mr Speaker, last week my department published a call for | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
evidence to help broaden our understanding of education settings, | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
and the scope of oversight `nnounced by the prime minister last lonth. We | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
are committed to safeguarding children and protecting thel from | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
harm and extremism, including out of school settings which provides | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
opportunities. I would ask going to make accommodation for the 01th of | :45:16. | :45:23. | |
January. But plans are therd to inspect Academy chains... It is nice | :45:24. | :45:32. | |
to hear the honourable gentleman. He we have not heard much from him on | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
education since he took up his position at. He will be aware that | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
these matters were explored fully in the previous education select | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
committee. Want to also expdct - inspect individual schools `nd their | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
support. Those chains are p`rt of those inspections. We have heard | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
from him twice today, and it is worth pointing out that he hs a | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
philosopher, that we know, ht is on his record. Way the governmdnt doing | :46:02. | :46:10. | |
to encourage more young to study math and other subjects in school? | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
Our ambition is that by 2020 the vast majority of young people will | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
study math until the age of 18. We have strengthened math to provide a | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
more secure basis for studyhng the subject on a daily level. Wd have | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
increased content in sciencd, introduced the new core math | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
qualifications. Now all students have the opportunity to study the | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
subject after the age of 16, and we have lost to the your life campaign | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
to promote -- promote mathelatics and science to young people. Thank | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
you for allowing me to arrive a few moments late today, as therd was a | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
high-profile meeting taking place elsewhere on the estate. I was | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
attending, and you can read all about on the papers later. Does the | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
Secretary of State accept that there is a growing teacher shortage in our | :47:04. | :47:12. | |
schools? I will hope -- was to be able to tell us whether she will be | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
a member of the shadow Council after this debate? We have been clear that | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
there is a challenge in terls of teacher recruitment. While vacancy | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
rates are low, we are aware that there are issues in the subjects and | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
in certain parts of the country That is why we announced thd | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
creation of the national te`ching service earlier on this month. Thank | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
you for that reply, it is good to see that the Secretary of State is | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
now accepting that there is a growing problem of teacher | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
shortage. It stands in contrast to some of the announcement given | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
earlier by her minister of state. There was an important report out | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
last week that showed half of all schools had unfilled vacanches at | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
the start of this academic xear To plug the gaps, one in four schools | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
are increasingly using supply teachers. One and six are using | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
nonspecialist teachers to fhll the vacancies, and more than ond in ten | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
are resorting to used unqualified staff to teach lessons. Doesn't be | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
secretary of the state think that these steps are good for rahsing the | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
standards, or does she think that this is not happening? Why H think | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
is needed is that for all of us to recognise the enormous contribution | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
that teachers make, and to those who try to talk down to teaching at | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
every opportunity, talking `bout the problems, do our schools and | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
education problem -- institttion no good whatsoever. One of the issues | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
where Krugman is hardest is in modern foreign languages. In the 13 | :48:42. | :48:49. | |
years of her party being in power, this subject plummeted. It hs harder | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
now to find the students to teach those languages. Ten my fridnd | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
outline what steps have been taken to encourage more schools ottside of | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
London to work with charitids such as free the children? Mr Spdaker I | :49:04. | :49:14. | |
recall meeting my friend a few years ago to speak about free the | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
children. It is good to see that she remains a strong advocate of | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
extracurricular activities that support children becoming active | :49:25. | :49:26. | |
citizens. That is why we have invested over ?5 million to build | :49:27. | :49:34. | |
children character and resilience. We are working across the country, | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
not just in London, to compdtitive sport, and, and volunteer and social | :49:39. | :49:40. | |
aspect projects stop . And the uniform policy behng | :49:41. | :49:53. | |
implemented amah and at short notice people -- parents are being told | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
that day but must buy new uniforms. The children who don't have been | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
forced to attend a learning unit in an excluded room. Walk can the | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
Minister due to better protdct parents who cannot afford stch | :50:08. | :50:10. | |
upfront costs without their children being punished? I'm happy to look | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
into the individual case, btt I think that the honourable gdntleman | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
and others yet again are putting up more barriers in the way of this | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
scope improving the. Since 2005 at this school has been below the | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
national average. This has been going on for ten years. This school | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
is now an Academy, is sponsored by a trust that has done extremely well | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
for another school Norwich primary Academy in his own constitudncies of | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
the I'm happy to look at thd individual case, but he would do | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
better to work with the loc`l MP to raise the educational attainment for | :50:50. | :50:50. | |
all children stop this extends to children with | :50:51. | :51:05. | |
special educational needs, hncluding those in a fantastic school in my | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
constituency. The one-year honour from the reforms, with the Linister | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
of JD House on what progress has been made? I am a pleased to hear | :51:14. | :51:19. | |
about the work going on in his constituency, that he is | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
championing. These reforms that we have brought represent the biggest | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
change, and the biggest opportunity special education and support in a. | :51:29. | :51:35. | |
Good progress is being made. This is a 3 year transition, but today all | :51:36. | :51:44. | |
consoles have published... We have also integrated educational health | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
and care plans available now for more complex needs which nedd to be | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
addressed. As I mentioned a few moments ago, we are working towards | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
the introduction of the first ever inspection from work with the | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
quality commission to ensurd that parents and young people know | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
whether they are able to access the range and quality of servicds that | :52:04. | :52:09. | |
they need. Doctor Lisa Cameron. Thank you Mr Speaker. There is a | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
real concern that following the Paris attacks, he pulled his | :52:15. | :52:22. | |
permission could intensify. What programmes hasn't she planndd to | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
prevent religious intolerance? She asks an important question, and | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
sadly it is becoming ever more something that we have to think | :52:34. | :52:36. | |
about. Religious intolerancd is unacceptable, and all schools are | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
provide -- required to promote the rule of law, democracy, indhvidual | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
law, and tolerance with those of different faiths and beliefs. | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
Schools should be places whdre we support community commute as | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
cohesion. The national citizens service. Is curriculums shotld take | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
about the importance of respecting others. The other schools do this in | :53:02. | :53:08. | |
very diverse areas, but we lust continue this focus on area. With my | :53:09. | :53:15. | |
friend, when considering thd review on school funding, ensure that the | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
problem that has arisen in recent years with the underfunding of the | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
two grammar schools and othdr grammar schools and ethics, it is | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
addressed. It seems unfair that they should be suffering in the way that | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
they have through this currdnt funding formula. As he is aware we | :53:32. | :53:39. | |
have protected the core school budget real term, and the looking | :53:40. | :53:47. | |
into make finding her. I can assure that the grammar school, anti-school | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
for girls, will receive funding that route flex the peoples needs fairly. | :53:52. | :54:05. | |
Friday I met with the Glasgow foreign affairs that its funding is | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
under pressure and demand is increasing. Can the Secretary of | :54:10. | :54:12. | |
State tell us whether funds from the refugee resettlement progralme will | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
be made, and what steps she is the -- taking to support this? The | :54:18. | :54:24. | |
speaking of English is hugely important in terms of integration, | :54:25. | :54:26. | |
and that is something that we want to see with anyone who comes here | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
and you need to. We can support them so they can become members of our | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
society. I'm happy to take this matter away and talk to my | :54:36. | :54:42. | |
friends... There are rules for what money can be spent on, but H am | :54:43. | :54:49. | |
happy to write to him. Thank you Mr Speaker. Constituencies likd mine | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
and stooping and have a need for school places and new schools, by a | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
lack suitable sites for new schools. Will the Minister visit | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
with me to see what more thd government can do to help local | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
authorities find a suitable sites for schools in places like line and | :55:08. | :55:15. | |
to give them? As the Secret`ry of State said at last weeks London | :55:16. | :55:22. | |
educational conference, we recognise the importance of these aside. We | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
will work with local authorhties to designate property teams in the | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
funding agencies by identifxing potential sites. When it coles to | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
school buildings and repairs, we on this site are creating placds and | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
fixing the school roof whild the sun is shining. Following last week s | :55:40. | :55:51. | |
devastating risk -- report `bout 450,000 children are being sexually | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
abuse over the last two years. I wonder if the Secretary of State | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
disagrees with me and disagrees with the children community -- | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
Commissioner... Should be compulsory? | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
I do not disagree with the honourable Lee that education should | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
be compulsory but I think it should be age appropriate and just because | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
something is statute does not mean that it is always talked whhle. What | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
I would rather see is that these issues there is a good currhculum, | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
taught well, taught by compdtent teachers or people coming in from | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
outside were going to inspire those young people. Will be Secretary of | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
State join me in saluting the work of the ambassadors and to w`nt to | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
tell the House what further steps are being taken to make surd that | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
more and more children do... I will join my honourable friend and | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
saluting work of the stem ambassadors. Since 2010 we have seen | :56:46. | :56:54. | |
a level stem increase to radically. Matt is now the single most popular | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
a level choice with 92,000 hnjuries last year. But we do want to go for | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
further. Of your life campahgn is targeting your 11 pupils as they | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
make their a choices with the aim of increasing physics by 50% in three | :57:09. | :57:16. | |
years. Can I ask the schools minister if you meet and have a | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
discussion with me about funding for the new at his word school hn | :57:22. | :57:28. | |
Coventry? I'm happy to have such a meeting. Prince William school in | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
and deal has recently converted into an academy but for many years and | :57:35. | :57:37. | |
suffered from a chronic lack of investment. I'm grateful to | :57:38. | :57:40. | |
ministers for the interest they have shown today but what reassurance can | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
against that schools such as this will be top of the government's | :57:45. | :57:52. | |
investment priority? We plan to spend billion pounds between | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
2016-2021 in February. We announced allocations of four point 2 billion | :57:57. | :58:02. | |
between 2015 and 2018 to improve the condition of existing schools | :58:03. | :58:04. | |
including funding for the condition improvement find to whisper prince | :58:05. | :58:11. | |
William school is eligible to. Our core is to keep building safe and in | :58:12. | :58:22. | |
good working. Into the Scottish Government launched a new chosen | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
families and young people fhnd focus on improving educational eqtality | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
and allowing young people to improve their potential copy are thd | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
government very to save you look at this fine example from Scotland | :58:35. | :58:43. | |
That always -- I am always happy to look at what happened in Scotland. | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
The honourable gentleman might want to look at what we have been in | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
England in terms of narrowing the gap between advantaged and | :58:52. | :58:53. | |
disadvantaged and they might find they could learn something from us. | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
Could you tell us how many schools require pupils to where somdthing is | :58:57. | :59:05. | |
part of their uniform was white but we do not collect that data but | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
these are issues for the he`dteacher and governing body of the school. | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
But they do have to act reasonably and public body they have bx law act | :59:13. | :59:18. | |
reasonably. The government's own findings show that the 26 wdek | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
timescale applied in care proceedings is leading to rdst and | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
unsuitable placement for chhldren under... Baal the Minister not | :59:26. | :59:31. | |
except what the social work profession has known all along that | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
26 weeks is not sufficient to plan properly for a vulnerable child s | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
life? The honourable way thd will know from memory because shd was on | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
the old committee that when we brought in the 26 weeks timdscale | :59:45. | :59:51. | |
for care cases, the average was over 55 weeks, which I think unddr | :59:52. | :00:00. | |
anyone's view would be a holy over the level that it should be for a | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
decision to be made about a child's long-term feature. We have lanaged | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
to bring that close to 26 wdeks but what we need to make sure it that in | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
relation to special guardianship orders that the assessment of | :00:13. | :00:14. | |
potential terrorist for those children is as robust as it would be | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
for any other decision about that child's long-time permanent and if | :00:20. | :00:21. | |
there is a concern that into many cases that is not happening. Many | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
had teachers in my constitudncy reported increased prevalence of | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
mental health goblins among young people in schools. Would be | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
Secretary of State agree with me that we need to see better | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
integration between schools and child and adolescent mental health | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
services so that we can deal with this growing problem. I know my | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
honourable friend is a passhonate campaigner on mental health issues. | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
He will be aware that we have funded a 1.5 million joint pilots with the | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
department for help on this single point of contact between schools and | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
services so that parents do not have to go through the aggravation of | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
trying to work out how to access these vital services to support | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
their young children. Version question. -- urgent question. To ask | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
the Secretary of State for Transport if you make a statement on decision | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
on the route and patient choices for high-speed to. Mr Speaker, the | :01:22. | :01:32. | |
government is getting on with building H as to. Legislation to | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
build the first two Birmingham is resting while. Last week thd | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
Chancellor confirmed the finding, today we are also responding to | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
reports published last year by Sir David Higgins Chairman of HS2. He | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
recommended building the line were quickly to bring the benefits to the | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
north sooner. I have therefore announced today my decision on the | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
section from the west Midlands to crew. Now offered to as section to | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
a. We intend to celebrate this so it opens six years sooner than planned | :02:06. | :02:13. | |
in table open in 2027. This will bring faster journeys to crdw of | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
Manchester and other cities in the North and Gotland. This will support | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
growth and jobs in the northern para Howells. I have set up thesd plans | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
and a command paper and supporting documents, copies of which `re being | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
placed in the House library. Remainder of phase two will see a | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
full wide Brut built to Manchester and Leeds bite 2033. Today H have | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
also set out my plans for the rest of the route to head of a brute | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
decision next year. I'm also asking HS2 to explore how we might serve | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
Stoke including by road junction at Hunsaker. The junction will be part | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
of phase one and will allow trains to serve stations on the exhsting | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
line through Staffordshire. I also want to ensure those affectdd by the | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
scheme are properly compens`ted The government is committed to `ssisting | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
people along the route from the West Midlands to crew. Therefore today I | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
am launching a consultation on the proposals to implement the same | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
long-term property assistance schemes for phase two A as for phase | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
one. As with phase one, the government proposes to go above and | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
beyond what is required by law including discretionary measures to | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
help more people. Mr Speaker, H S two will deliver economic growth for | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
this country. Not just in the immediate future but also the | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
long-term. Which is why we continue to commit to this essential project. | :03:44. | :03:53. | |
Thank you Mr Speaker and I think the Secretary of State for his response. | :03:54. | :03:55. | |
Today marks a sad day for Stoke-on-Trent as our campahgn for a | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
stop and step for the second phase of matter is HS2 his the letters. We | :04:00. | :04:06. | |
now are you a rail line frol Manchester to London could have been | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
achieved more quickly so we seek to mitigate the blow let me ask the | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
Minister this. The initial lodelling for HS2 suggested a downgrade of | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
service due to still come ghant based on ?7.7 billion worth of cuts | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
to his existing in services to cities such as the cluster `nd | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
Wakefield. Can he confirm that it no longer a plan? The department for | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
chance for a document published today speaks of working to retain | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
probably comparable services today. Can I tell the Minister my | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
constituents are not interested in the manager of billions accounts for | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
similar services up the you not confirm the government is committed | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
to running classic compatible trains via the Hunsaker junction whth equal | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
regularity and faster speeds so Stoke-on-Trent maintains its vital | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
connectivity? Finally with crew rather than Stoke benefiting from | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
this massive investments, plans for a Northern Gateway partnership | :05:03. | :05:04. | |
between Stoke-on-Trent and Eastchester become more important. | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
The last Parliament the citx of Portsmouth had a dedicated linister | :05:10. | :05:11. | |
for regeneration. I am not saying that we necessarily want thd Member | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
for West soul folk but now seems right we should have the sale | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
support to ordinate cross departmental strategy in thd region. | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
High-speed train line work for the country when they focus on growing | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
the economies of regional and second-tier cities as much `s major | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
metropolis these. Imprint Stoke-on-Trent will be the test for | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
the success of such a stratdgy and will be watching it closely. To | :05:39. | :05:45. | |
first say that I think therd has been a positive case and a very good | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
dialogue between Stoke-on-Trent and Sir David Higgins about the way in | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
which HS2 will serve the whole region. I, as a former membdr myself | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
of Staffordshire for some sdven years note Stoke-on-Trent incredibly | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
well and I fully accept that the importance for the highest bead | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
chain link which I think will come to the whole region copy he talks as | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
if crew is 100 miles away from Stoke-on-Trent, is his little it up | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
the road and just over the ,- literally of the road and over the | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
hill as far as where the st`tion may go. I very much look forward to the | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
advantages of serving not only crew but also Stoke-on-Trent as well He | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
asked about classical compatible trains, both are compatible trains | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
those are ones not as simil`r to what they are serving in Kent, that | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
is why the Hunsaker junction is so important as well as so the Leigh | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
serving not only Stoke-on-Trent but Macclesfield and Stafford is | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
concerned that the benefit dinner from the faster services and quicker | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
services and I fully accept the point he makes about nobody wanting | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
to see eight demonization of services to Stoke-on-Trent or | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
anywhere else for that mattdr. One of the reasons for this hugd | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
investment it so that we can see more services and more options | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
available to as far as freight is concerned. The West Coast m`inline | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
is one of the busiest lines anywhere in Europe so is right that we focus | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
on how we bring the relief that we need to and the extra capachty that | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
we need to on that line. But I am more than willing to continte in | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
conversations with Stoke-on,Trent about the best way to move forward | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
as far as the whole region hs concerned. Despite the doculents | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
published today over the past week alone we have seen the numbdrs and | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
finding HS2 guilty of a maladministration of her | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
communications. The standing orders committee of this house describing | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
their supply of information at an absolute shambles and an FOHA | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
request revealing a massive inaccuracy in investments and my own | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
consistency. What confidencd can we have that today by Zack and | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
announcement of a speeded up timetable for phase two of HS2 is | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
not going to lead to an increased catalogue of mismanagement, mistakes | :08:07. | :08:08. | |
and more misery for people `long the route? Featured is Mr Speakdr | :08:09. | :08:17. | |
anything I say about HS2 as far as my right honourable friend hs | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
concerned on not be met with any kind of favour whatsoever. She has | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
made the opposition perfectly clear. I believe it is absolutely dssential | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
for the long-term economic hnterests of the United Kingdom and | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
particularly the four hour Lauren city as well so that is white is | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
right to go ahead but I do not dismiss those people who directly | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
are affected by it and thosd people who have trouble as a result of a | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
major infrastructure project taking place. I have seen major | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
infrastructure project which has ever gotten universal support in its | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
time of construction. It is usually finding that the board afterwards. | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
And back to the first railw`y line point to be built between Bhrmingham | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
and London was the feed in the House of commons because canals wdre | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
perfectly adequate. Can I congratulate my honourable friend | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
for Stoke-on-Trent Central on securing this urgent question? Is | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
constantly campaigned to secure benefits for his constituency from | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
high-speed rail and I echo his statements on the importancd of | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
Hunsaker junction and the existing network. Mr Speaker, labour support | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
HS2 and we want to make surd that sections of the route can bd | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
delivered at a schedule including to crew especially after minister left | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
the bill running 18 months late However, the paper published today | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
raises new questions alongshde some belated answer is. Can he explain | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
why Manchester Airport stathon has still not been fully confirled and | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
agree that it would be a body blow for the northern powerhouse it | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
Manchester Airport was not served by HS2? Why will HS2 exact route and | :09:55. | :10:01. | |
station locations including in the East Midlands not be finalised until | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
late 2016? To put it another way, why would the state -- why has it | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
taken the government over shx years to confirm their plans for | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
high-speed rail in the Midl`nds and the North? The government h`d | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
previously said they would `lso consider accelerating construction | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
of the lathe to Sheffield p`rt of the eastern leg. Is that sthll on | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
the table and what consider`tion is any has been given to acceldrating | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
the West Midlands to the East Midlands section of phase two? On | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
cost after speaker, and increase was announced on the Comprehenshve | :10:38. | :10:44. | |
Spending Review from 50.1 bhllion ?55.7 billion. Will he confhrm this | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
increase is simply a result of recasting HS2 from 2011-2014 by this | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
war are there other components of the cost rise? Finally Mr Speigel | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
are labour amended HS2 plumbing legislation to ensure that cost | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
increases or understands ard reported. His department had said | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
that the first such report was due in autumn 2015. Why is this report | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
now delayed? When will we sde it? And that the first such report was | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
due in autumn 2015. Why is this report now delayed? When will we see | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
it? And does on the constant gas constant Britney? Can I answer the | :11:21. | :11:28. | |
last question first and if H published the to today. -- constant | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
scrutiny. As far as the othdr point she made, she makes a point of that | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
rope HS2 costs rising to 55.7. She is absolutely right, that is the | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
cost of 2015 prices and the other costings were up to 2011 prhces and | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
that is why the increase has taken place. It is worth pointing out Mr | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
Speaker that during this spdnding review at HS2 E to .14% of GDP. | :11:55. | :12:03. | |
Gasquet equates 2.14% of GDP, not over burdens than of Molde navigate | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
him in. She asked the questhon about the other stations. I said that | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
talking about the East Midl`nds base and I'm very least there now seems | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
to be a consensus as to where that patients should actually go and that | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
was lacking up himself for fairly recently and I very much welcome | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
that but I hope to be able to say more about that next year. Some of | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
the point on consultation h`d thrown up some issues that should be a just | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
and that is why I have said today that I hope to confirm the rest of | :12:34. | :12:41. | |
the route for both the East side by late 2016. When she talks about the | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
Manchester Airport station that runs into the qualifications I h`ve just | :12:48. | :12:50. | |
said about the consultations which are ongoing but I think any | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
documents I have published today we do discuss a number of thesd | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
particular issues. Can I just say as far as the bill being 18 months | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
late, I think those people serving on the bill are doing an | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
exceptionally good job. I do not regard it as 18 months late, Ira | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
guarded on time or the timetable which was that out by the l`st | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
Secretary of State in the l`st Labour government to only ptblished | :13:16. | :13:17. | |
the plans nine months beford the general election. Will right | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
honourable friend agree with me that the most important thing about HS2 | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
is not improved journey timds per se, but for a more importantly | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
creating the capacity that we need on the West Coast because the | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
conventional line will be ftll to capacity by 2024. Could you please | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
tell the House is both phasd one and phase two of HS2 still on thme? And | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
will he confirm his announcdment about crew means that it will be | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
built six years prior to thd original deadline? Mr Speakdr, may I | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
ask you even that you have been so generous in congratulating people | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
today that you congratulate the Secretary of State on his bhrthday? | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
I am very happy to do so. If I had known to remember to congratulate | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
him I would have done but I did not and so I did not, but I do now and I | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
am very happy to do so. Alw`ys happy to have a bit of information. Mr | :14:16. | :14:29. | |
Speaker, I thought your birthday resident was going to be th`t I | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
would have my chance of spe`king at the dispatch box today but H would | :14:36. | :14:37. | |
like to thank my honourable friend for the paint to leave that point he | :14:38. | :14:44. | |
makes. My honourable for made a number of points about capacity | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
absolutely right that one of the key reasons for the whole of thd HS | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
project is not just about thme, it is not just about faster jotrneys, | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
but it is indeed about capacity We have seen a huge increase on the | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
number of people using our railways over the last 20 years. Figtres | :15:01. | :15:11. | |
rising from 750 million to 0.6 billion and we're seeing continual | :15:12. | :15:13. | |
growth as far as our railwaxs are concerned. Not just as far `s | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
passenger numbers are concerned but also the huge increase in freight. I | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
am very pleased to say the project is on-time. It is huge projdct, some | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
people will be disrupted by what I think it is in the long-terl | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
economic interests of the United Kingdom. The Chancellor's | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
announcement that high-speed rail will be to cruise the years earlier | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
than planned is to be welcoled as it should lead to a reduction hn | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
journey times between Scotl`nd and London however there is now an | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
opportunity for the UK government to also accelerate winning to dxtend | :15:50. | :15:58. | |
high-speed railing to Scotl`nd. Willie Secretary of State rdaffirmed | :15:59. | :16:00. | |
their aspiration for the gi`nt time between Holland and London `nd turn | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
this aspiration into further commitment? And I thank the | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
honourable gentleman for his welcome as far as the statement I h`ve made | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
today. It is true to say th`t phase two able give Scotland even quicker | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
journey to London soon or than was originally planned. The journey time | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
between London and Glasgow will be three hours when phase two opens and | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
that is indeed an improvement. The network will deliver London to | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
Glasgow journey times and three hours 38 minutes and London to | :16:35. | :16:36. | |
Edinburgh in three hours 39 minutes and I believe that the over`ll HS2 | :16:37. | :16:44. | |
will bring huge benefits for Scottish economy altogether. The UK | :16:45. | :16:46. | |
under Scottish government are working together to consider options | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
to further reduce that journey times and HS2 is doing further work and I | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
hope to be able to make a statement on the next steps in the new year. | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
Figure two which has been mdntioned a number of times is in my | :17:03. | :17:04. | |
constituency and I'm afraid once again my constituents are f`ced with | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
some English having faced phase one, phase two a start in my constituency | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
as well. I would ask my right honourable friend to specifhc | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
versions if I may. Can you give some indication of timetable as to win | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
the proposed route is going to be published so that my constituents | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
can look at it and come with suggestions and also when you think | :17:31. | :17:32. | |
the committee states and thd petitions might begin? Is bdhind | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
victory Junction the one th`t connects with the West coast main | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
line which also go through ly constituency really necessary now | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
given night the connection to crew is going to be six years in advance? | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
Mr Speaker can I first say that the plans I have announced and the maps | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
I have announced have been published today so if his constituents and | :18:00. | :18:01. | |
indeed he will be able to examine exactly where the root is proposed | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
to go and that was part of the announcement that was done by | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
written ministers this mornhng as far as that is concerned. I | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
appreciate the disruption it will bring about in certain parts of my | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
honourable friend's constittency but he will know from his experhence | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
with phase one that changes can be made where they are brought to | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
benefit and case argued and engineering possible as indded has | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
happened in and around other places. I welcome the announcement that the | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
benefits that will come to the north sooner than previously planned. But | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
I do emphasise the point made by my honourable friend that | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
Stoke-on-Trent and other ardas not directly on the line should benefit | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
through improved connectivity and it is very important that things are | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
arranged so that that happens but I asked the Secretary of Statd is the | :19:01. | :19:08. | |
37% cuts to his Department of budget announced last week are compatible | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
with the delivering of this important project on time? Can I | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
thank the honourable Lady through her work as the chairman of the | :19:18. | :19:19. | |
select committee she has always been supportive of the overall objectives | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
as far as more train capacities and has made the case for a mord direct | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
service directed to Liverpool which obviously is part of what I will be | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
addressing when I come to adjust the full route towards the end of next | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
year. I have to say my honotrable friend the Member for Crewe who | :19:39. | :19:40. | |
joins me today on the front bench has also made the case as to why he | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
believes that the announcemdnt I have me today is the right decision. | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
But it is not just my decishon. It is a decision which has been based | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
on what Sir David Higgins, chairman of HS2 has done in his over`ll | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
structure reports and I think it is very important as to how thhs feeds | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
into the rest of the question about national infrastructure which we | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
have asked the national infrastructure committee to advise | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
us on as far as eight Asburx or crossrail two as to how the future | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
is concerned. She asked whether it is deliverable within the ddpartment | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
of pinning changes announced yesterday last week and the answer | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
to that is yes. The forecast revenue and losses in the first few years | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
and what are the consequencds on revenue and subsidies on thd | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
existing railway? We believd that the PCR for the lines I've `nnounced | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
today are positive VCRs which will do ever turned for the country but I | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
say to my old mobile friend it is not all about the CRs if thdy had | :20:50. | :20:56. | |
been listened to the Jubiled line would never have been made. They | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
have made huge defenses... HS2 Limited is not involved to any | :21:02. | :21:23. | |
part of the UK. Can therefore explained why the statement of | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
funding policy for the devolved executions provide for 100% | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
consequences from HS2 to Scotland and Northern Ireland and 0% to | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
Wales. I believe Wales is gdtting a benefit as far as the serving of the | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
announcement I have made today to North Wales was to be very hmportant | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
to a North Wales economy. The Secretary of State is well `ware of | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
my views of HS2. Two weeks `go I have the HS2 phase to minister in my | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
constituency and explained ht to him and showed him the devastathng | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
affect the current route have on the elect and taking out the major | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
employer of the south end of the constituencies topping a new housing | :22:06. | :22:06. | |
development and requiring the building of new piece of thd 84 | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
will cause huge distraction. When will we have a definitive route and | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
when will my constituents gdt the compensation they deserve? @s I have | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
said to my honourable friend in the House I hope to be able to say more | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
about the entire unit both the east and the West sections later next | :22:25. | :22:32. | |
year. My opposition to HS2 will not come as a surprise to anyond with | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
light and realised that thotsands of residents. Will the Minister clarify | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
whether the announcement today about Crewe will impact the line of route | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
coming into the used his face and the Western candidate and Brandt? | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
Note the announcement I havd made today will have no impact at all -- | :22:52. | :23:00. | |
no. I note today that counsdl had been successful in their lobbying | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
for the T station in the centre and that has also raised concerns for my | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
constituents and as he knows myself about options being considered on | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
the route into Leeds was I hope will include... Can I urge my right | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
honourable friend to put prdssure on HS2 to publish as soon as possible | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
to avoid remortgaging and found that mortgaging companies gave hhs house | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
a ?0 rating. Can I say to mx honourable friend I am incrddibly | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
sympathetic to cases like that that he has just made and I am also | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
willing and my ministers ard always willing to look into individual | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
cases. It is a huge project as I say I do regret that I am not able to | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
say more at this exact moment in time as far as confirming the rest | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
of the route but that is sthll being studied and all options being put | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
forward by honourable members are being looked at. There'll also be a | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
time once we have given the route for changes to be made subsdquent to | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
that through the process whhch the build-up to go through the House of | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
Commons but it is part of the difficulty I'm afraid that planning | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
a infrastructure project thdre are long-term and do take a lot of time. | :24:11. | :24:17. | |
I echo my honourable friend, but in addition to that the Secret`ry of | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
State will know, and happy birthday to him, that Crewe might look on a | :24:21. | :24:28. | |
map next door to Stoke-on-Trent but it is a good hour by car from my | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
constituents constituents, by train when she got into Stoke the line at | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
the line as he will know very well, the Crewe Derby line is app`lling. I | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
think you need to look carefully at that line and bring that forward six | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
years. I think these points are all points that need to be lookdd at and | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
considered sappy what is absolutely essential I believe is that | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
Stoke-on-Trent gets a benefht from HS2 as does the whole area of North | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
Staffordshire and that solvd art of Cheshire. It is a very important | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
part and we need to ensure that it gets the connectivity and whatever | :25:05. | :25:11. | |
other issues of connectivitx that can take place in the plannhng | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
process should be looked at. I endorsed the comment that the | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
honourable member of Stoke-on-Trent said. It is vital that | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
Stoke-on-Trent has this connectivity as indeed does that hurt and I | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
welcome the Secretary of St`te Bath comments about a generous | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
compensation scheme that nedds to be generous and with but managds asked | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
him whether there are opportunities to look again at the alignmdnt or if | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
not the alignment certainly the elevation of the Richter my | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
constituency where everything the point we have made has been | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
disregarded. Mr Speaker, wh`t I am announcing today is a line dxtension | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
of basically 37 miles betwedn the West Midlands and Crewe. Of that 37 | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
miles 1.1 miles it entitles, three-time, and there will `lso be | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
four miles of iodide but of course I am also willing to listen to | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
representations from my honourable friend and other people who wish to | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
make them. There will I be sleepy a process once the bill is published | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
of people being able to pethtion the bill as well. | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
Is there any chance of Liverpool being linked into HS2? As a result | :26:22. | :26:32. | |
of the announcements I have made, it will be a faster journey as far as | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
the high-speed link is concdrned. I think that we will see the benefits, | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
and other people are making the case that we go even further, with the | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
HS2 line. I asked the Secretary of State to reconfirm the commhtment to | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
the root. To try to bring forward some of the... I have said that I | :26:54. | :27:02. | |
welcome the fact that there is now a common agreement between thd | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
councils, which there wasn't at one stage as to where the site would be | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
a. As far as the case of making a faster decision, I will do what I | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
can. I have outlined the rottes that we are going to take, and the | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
process that we are going to go through. I will hold back bx wishing | :27:20. | :27:30. | |
happy birthday... He knows that I have raised this many times. He said | :27:31. | :27:39. | |
he intends to extend, can you give me some good news about that line? I | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
am glad that he does not get comeback Mr Speaker. The | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
announcements that have madd to date make no difference to the route that | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
is already before house, and the line that is being investig`ted by | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
the committee leading from the London to the West Midlands Route. I | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
think that what we have dond is that we have improved the compensation | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
arrangements for the whole of the root. To as he is aware, a number of | :28:05. | :28:15. | |
my constituents will be bitterly disappointed as of today, bdcause | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
they do not know what the route will be a. Willie -- will he use his | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
influence to bring forward darly compensation to those peopld so that | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
they can move on with their lives? I think that my honourable frhend | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
should be pleased to note that the new consensus in the East Mhdlands | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
is removed from her constittents the possibility of it being a | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
stationary. I will listen vdry carefully to what my honour`ble | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
friend says. We have got thd exceptional hardship payments for | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
certain cases, and I am alw`ys willing to look and any indhvidual | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
case study thank you Mr Spe`ker May I endorse the comments made by my | :28:59. | :29:06. | |
neighbouring MPs. I want to share the dismayed that we are gohng to | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
have a station in Stoke-on-Trent. I welcome the handshake or | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
announcement, and ask for ddtails on the timing of the consultathon as to | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
when we'll have a final dechsion? The hands acre is partially in the | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
build that is currently before the house at the moment. It is being | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
studied by a special committee looking into the first part of the | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
root. As far as the other points which the lady makes, I refdr back | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
to what I said before, and that I am keen to see that Stoke-on-Trent and | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
Stafford also get benefit from the new train services which will be | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
available as I said earlier on. Capacity is one of the most | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
important reasons for this. We normally take a bump, but wd must | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
move on because there is he`vy pressure on time. The Secretary of | :29:59. | :30:12. | |
State for health, Jeremy Hunt. With permission of Mr Speaker, I would | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
like to update the house on the junior doctor's strike a. E`rlier | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
this month, the union represented doctors balloted for industrial | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
action over contractor form. Because of the first strike is tomorrow I | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
wish to update the house on a contingency plans being madd. | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
Following the last week's spending review, no one can be in anx doubt | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
about this government's comlitment to the NHS. Additional resotrces | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
have to be matched with an dven stiffer surfaces -- save his data | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
services for patients. On the back of a mounting academic eviddnce | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
mortality rates are higher over weekends than during the wedk. We | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
made a manifesto commitment to deliver Sunday hospital services for | :31:01. | :31:03. | |
urgent and emergency care. However, it is important to note that Sunday | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
services are not just about Junior Doctor contractor form. The Academy | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
of medical role colleges noted that the weekend effect is very likely | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
attributable to deficiencies in care processes linked to the absdnce of | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
skill in inherent senior st`ff, and a system that is not configtred to | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
provide a full diagnostic and support services seven days a week. | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
Our plans will support the linute junior doctors who already work | :31:33. | :31:39. | |
weekends, seven-day diagnostics and other support services. The ability | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
to discharge on weekends, and other parts of the NHS and the social care | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
system. Reforming both the consultants and Junior Doctor | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
contracts is a key part of the mix. The current contracts have the | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
unintended consequences of laking it too hard for hospitals to mtster | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
urgent and emergency care evenly across seven days. Our plans are | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
deliver early and tended to be good for doctors, they will feel more | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
generous rates for weekend work then those offered to pleasd | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
officers, fire officers, and pilots. They offer Junior contractors hours | :32:21. | :32:29. | |
with a basic pay rise averaging 11%, and average be maintained. They | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
reduce the maximum hours to eight doctor can work in any week from 91 | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
to 72 hours, and they stop altogether the process of asking | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
doctors to work fine in row. Most of all, they will improve the | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
appearance of doctors working over the weekend by improving thd care | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
that they can deliver to thdir patients. Our preference has always | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
been for a negotiated soluthon. The house knows that they have refused | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
to enter negotiations since June. However, last week, I agreed with | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
officials to meet them under the auspices... I am pleased to report | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
to the house after working through the weekend, discussions led to a | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
potential agreement early this afternoon between the BMA | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
leadership, and the governmdnt. This agreement would allow a timd-limited | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
agreement during which negotiations can't take place, and during which | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
the BMA agrees to suspend the strike action, and the government `grees | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
not to proceed unilaterally not to pursue new contract. This is now | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
sitting with the BMA Junior Doctor's executive committed, will | :33:45. | :33:46. | |
decide whether they are abld to support it later today. It hs | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
important for the house to know right now, strikes are still planned | :33:52. | :33:59. | |
to start at midnight. I will turned to the contingency plan. Thd | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
government's first contingency is to keep its citizens set safe. This | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
applies to those who need c`re in our hospitals. The we are m`king | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
every effort to minimise risks caused by the strike. I havd chaired | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
three contingency plan meethngs today, and will continue to chairs | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
further meetings for the duration of the strike. NHS England are | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
collecting feedback from all trusts, but currently we estimate that the | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
planned action will mean up to 20,000 patients may have vital | :34:31. | :34:37. | |
operations counseled, including approximately 1500 cataract | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
operations, 900 skin lesion removal, 600 plus the operations, 400 spine | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
operations, 250 gall bladder removals, and nearly 300 tonsil | :34:49. | :34:55. | |
operations. NHS England has also written to all trusts, asking for | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
detailed information on the impact of the strikes are planned for the | :35:02. | :35:03. | |
eighth and 16th of December, which will involve not just the whthdrawal | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
of a lecture of care, but the withdrawal of urgent and emdrgency | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
care as well. We are giving up particular effort emphasis to the | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
staffing at major trouble, sentences -- centres. We have concerns of | :35:19. | :35:27. | |
vision safety. All trusts w`nt to consider safety care to provide more | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
bad to. So far, the BMA has not been willing to provide our insurances | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
they will ask their members to provide urgent emergency coverage in | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
these areas. Will continue to press for such references. It is | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
regrettable, Mr Speaker, th`t this strike was called even before the | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
BMA had seen the government's offer. The whole house will hope today that | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
the strike is called off so that strikes -- talks can resume. Whether | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
or not there is a strike, providing safe services for patients will | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
remain the priority of this government as we work toward our | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
long-term ambition of making NHS care the safest and highest quality | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
in the world. I commend this statement to the house. Thank you Mr | :36:12. | :36:19. | |
Speaker, and can I thank thd Secretary of State for an advanced | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
copy of his statements, and indeed for making the statement today. Mr | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
Speaker, you will note that when we last debated Junior Doctor's | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
contracts in this chamber, the house secretary was too busy to attend. I | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
am glad that he has found the time today. First of all, can I start by | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
saying that I strongly welcome what the house secretary has announced. | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
Nobody wants to see industrhal action, not least the Junior | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
doctors, and so hopefully common sense will prevail. However, I do | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
have a number of issues I w`nt to press the house secretary on. First, | :36:58. | :37:04. | |
on house services tomorrow light still be affected, second, `bout | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
workforce morale, and third, about what happens next? First of all a | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
week and a half ago, I wrotd to the Prime Minister suggesting | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
independent talks to resolvd this dispute. My proposal was imlediately | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
supported by the Academy of medical world colleges, and accepted by the | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
British medical Association. But it took the government a furthdr five | :37:32. | :37:39. | |
days to agree to enter talks. The issue is this Mr Speaker. Ghven a | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
number of operations have already been cancelled, is it not the case | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
that if the house secretary had agreed to this proposal when it was | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
first put to him, he could have avoided, or at least medicated any | :37:55. | :38:01. | |
disruption to patients tomorrow Mr Speaker, during my urgent qtestion | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
into this house on the 20th of November, the Minister was `sked 12 | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
times about involvement, and 12 times he repeatedly refused to agree | :38:12. | :38:18. | |
to talks. Can house secretary say very clearly why it took thd | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
government so long to agree to talks, when the ministers initially | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
appeared to rule out this proposal? Second, the house secretary will | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
know that this dispute has been deeply damaging to workforcd morale. | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
Many Junior doctors have already voted with their feet, or would have | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
been planning to do so over the coming months. Has the department | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
made any estimate as to the effect of a dispute on recruitment and | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
retention? What action is hd taking to stop the brain drain of our | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
brightest medics to countrids such as Australia and New Zealand? It was | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
clear from my conversations with Junior doctors that they felt that | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
they were the first line of defence in a fight for the future of the | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
NHS. Whether that is rare wrong is a remarkable situation for junior | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
doctors to find themselves hn the. Will he now sat out his approach to | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
negotiations with other grotps of staff about pay and conditions? Does | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
he accept that you cannot kdep asking our NHS workforce to do more | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
for less? Finally, I would say gently to the house secretary, that | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
his handling of these negothations has been a lesson in precisdly how | :39:40. | :39:47. | |
not to do it. I trust that today's announcement will mark a ch`nge in | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
tone, and a change in appro`ch on the parts of the government. With | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
that that in mind, let me s`y this to the house secretary. Everyone in | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
this house agrees that if you go into a hospital in an emergdncy on | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
a Sunday, you should get thd same treatment that you would get on a | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
Tuesday. The house secretarx has repeatedly failed to make the case | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
for why reforming the Junior Doctor contract is essential to thd aim | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
the. I make a genuine offer to the house secretary today. I am prepared | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
to work with him on a cross party basis to do everything posshble to | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
eradicate the so-called weekend effects, and we will support any | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
necessary reforms to achievhng that end. In return, the house sdcretary | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
needs to be absolutely clear about what needs to change in orddr to | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
deliver that. As many studids have concluded, there needs to bd much | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
more research into why therd is a weekend effect, so that we can make | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
sure that we can focus efforts on the actual problem. With thd house | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
secretary today committed to commissioning new independent | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
research into power reforming staffing arrangements over the | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
weekend might help improve the quality of weekend services? Does he | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
understand that part of the problem has been that he has implied that | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
junior doctors are to blame for differential mortality amongst | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
patients admitted during thd weekend? Can he say what other steps | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
he will be taking to ensure that we have consistent seven-day sdrvices, | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
including making sure that social care is available outside of the | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
working week. ? Can he update the house on the consultant negotiations | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
which are separate to the Jtnior Doctor negotiations, and whdther | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
there is a more -- where thdre is a more direct link to seven-d`y | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
services. I welcome the fact that the house secretary finally agreed | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
to talks last week. I welcole the news from those talks today. Nobody | :41:59. | :42:05. | |
wants patients to suffer, and I hope now we can start to put this whole | :42:06. | :42:16. | |
sorry Saugus behind us. What an interesting response from someone | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
who has never championed seven-day services, and who has never been | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
prepared to stand up for patients and do the right thing, howdver | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
difficult it might be. Let le respond to her comments. Thd reason | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
that we did not respond immddiately was nuts to rule out, to sax that we | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
consider it. I made a private approach to the head of the British | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
medical Association to see whether there was enough common grotnd to | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
make an approach to make it worthwhile. I wanted to makd time | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
for that private approach to bear fruit. She asked about the brain | :42:57. | :43:03. | |
drain -- brain drain. Keybo`rd 8 billion of extra resources for the | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
NHS next year. That is ?100 billion more than the Labour Party promised | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
in the last election. That hs the promise we can make on the back of a | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
strong economy, a promise that the Labour Party would never be able to | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
deliver. She has repeatedly called for the government to removd the | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
threat of contract -- contr`ct imposition. Let me tell you what we | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
cannot do that. It would give the BMA a veto over a manifesto | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
commitment that has been endorsed by the British people. What we have | :43:38. | :43:45. | |
said, well we have actually said is that we will suspend proceeding to | :43:46. | :43:48. | |
the new contracts during thd period in which negotiations happen, a | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
short time limited period, `nd ate the BMA will suspend the threat of | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
strikes that time limited pdriod. Removing the threat of an position | :44:01. | :44:09. | |
permanently is not been agrded in any bar of the NHS or the ptblic | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
sector. The government has to balance the needs of patients, | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
doctors, and taxpayers. Givhng one of those groups a veto over any new | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
contract would make it impossible to make that judgement. She talked | :44:22. | :44:29. | |
about a sort of, the way to have approached this. Being intelperate | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
and unreasonable is a quality that I appear to share with any Minister of | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
health that the BMA has met. Not my words, but the words of the person | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
who founded the NHS. Had he listened to the BMA, he would not have been | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
able to listen -- set up thd NHS. It would have been up to the | :44:53. | :44:59. | |
government. Let me say to hdr that this Junior Doctor's contract is not | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
the only thing that we need to do to have seven-day services, but | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
contract reform is what hospitals say is the most important thing of | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
all. It is based on independent research. The 20 13th report from | :45:14. | :45:20. | |
the Academy of real medical colleges is what we have based our proposals | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
on the. We have also based on the seven studies that we have now had | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
over five years. These talk about the problems over the weekend | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
affect. We have also had thd independent research of the | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
independent page on which wd base the bulk of our proposals. H want to | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
say to her that, when he cale to the biggest issue of patient safety in | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
the NHS in recent years, shd did not speak out against the strikd, she | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
did not support the governmdnt support for Sunday services, and | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
when the came to within mortality, she chose to pickles and thd data | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
rather than to make calls for action. The British public have | :46:00. | :46:00. | |
noticed. Bale may I congrattlate my the military tactics of the BMA To | :46:01. | :46:25. | |
personalise any dispute agahnst the Secretary of State goes back when | :46:26. | :46:39. | |
they were... Every Secretarx of State of every party since that time | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
has had exactly the same experience in dispute. If he succeeds hn | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
getting these negotiations tnder way on a time-limited basis, as he quite | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
rightly says, will he appro`ch them in a reasonable way? Also insisting | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
that the BMA make it clear that they do support a seven-day servhce which | :47:02. | :47:09. | |
would obviously be a benefit to the country, that they are not going to | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
turn this into large amounts of extra pay when they are still | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
amongst the best paid medic`l professions in Europe, if not the | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
best paid medical profession. What everybody should be concentrating on | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
is how to raise the standards of service to ordinary patients up and | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
down the country, and to get rid of these higher mortality rates over | :47:36. | :47:42. | |
the weekends. I would like to thank him for his robust support. I seem | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
to remember that when he was house secretary, there were posters bob | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
all over the country saying that what you call a man who ignores the | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
Doctor's advice, and it was a picture of my friend. He knows what | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
this is all about. It is not just conservative health secretaries He | :48:00. | :48:07. | |
is absolutely right, we will all be delighted if the strike is | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
postponed. If it starts at dight o'clock tomorrow morning, not | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
midnight. He is right, the focus from the government's point of view | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
will be unremittingly about improving patient care. We lade it | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
clear that any settlement h`s to be within the current pay envelope and | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
the great sadness of this is that the vast majority of doctors are | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
totally passionate about dohng something about a seven-day | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
services. They only had the if only we had the opportunity to ndgotiate | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
since June, we could have avoided this. Thank you Mr Speaker, I also | :48:42. | :48:52. | |
welcome that the Secretary of State has changed plain errors th`t would | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
have seen seven to ten o'clock on a Saturday all been touted as the same | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
during a week. That would h`ve punished those who already work | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
during the weekend, such as acute medical, and the doctors working in | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
a any, the people that we nded to. I welcome that the Secretary of State | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
has done this. I would be grateful if you replied to me and cl`rified | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
whether the threat of imposhtion, if there is or isn't? The statdment | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
says that it has been removdd, but his reply to the shadow secretary | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
implies that it has hasn't. The talk about people dying over weekends. If | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
I could do stress that it is not excess deaths during the wedkend, | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
implying that hospitals... Ht is excess deaths of people admhtted on | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
weekends from a guy on any day of the week. Junior doctors ard already | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
covering weekends. It is thd additional services to diagnose and | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
get people on their journey. If we could just focus on a that. | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
Unfortunately, the Secretarx of State in previous statement has | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
moved from talking about excess deaths, to talking about thd consult | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
and opt out Clause, which only applies to new teamwork, and I am | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
sorry that a toenail clinic will not save lives. We should actually focus | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
on strengthening the seven-day service for urgent cases, c`ses that | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
are ill, and the people who lead to these excess deaths. Hopefully we | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
can make progress, and I do join him, and everyone in this house in | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
hoping that there is not a strike tomorrow. She is right, this is an | :50:27. | :50:36. | |
issue about the excess mort`lity rates admitted over weekends, not | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
the people who are already hn the hospital on the weekends. She is | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
mistaken into some of her characterisation of some of the rest | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
of the government's position at The clinical standard is clear that | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
people admitted over weekends should be seen, or anyone admitted at any | :50:52. | :50:58. | |
time, should be seen in 40 hours a. This is true in only one of eight in | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
our hospitals throughout all seven days of the week. Sorting ott the | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
consultant contract for urgdnt and emergency care does matter, and | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
although the opt out in the consult and contract only applies to all | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
active work, it is the case that we have half as many consultants | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
available in our A departlent on Sunday as during the week, dven | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
though Sunday is one of the busiest days of the week. It is not just the | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
two doctors. If he wants to make life better for junior doctors, we | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
need to make sure that they have a more senior cover, that thex do not | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
feel clinically exposed. Independent services said that they do `. With | :51:37. | :51:44. | |
respect to the right that government on all sides have to have to set the | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
terms and conditions of the employment contract, that is a right | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
that has not been a part of the public sector. Is a vital rhght for | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
all employers. I sadly say that I will not move towards any ndw | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
contract while negotiations are happening during this time-limited | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
period. Dazzle my statement said, and the BMA said that if thd under | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
this agreement, then they whll remove the threat to strike during | :52:16. | :52:24. | |
that period. Can I congratulate the Secretary of State on coming here to | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
the house today on this verx important matter, and I think the | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
all sides of the house support him on the try to find a negoti`ted | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
solution to this problem. However, I was concerned that if the strike | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
does go ahead, but we hope that the BMA will see sense and agred to the | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
terms that put on the table, I understand that they have not been | :52:48. | :52:50. | |
willing to pervert -- providing assurances that they will ask their | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
members to provide urgency `nd present care. What more can the | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
Secretary of State do to encourage the BMA to make that statemdnt, | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
because that is what will bd wearing a patient out there? I would like to | :53:05. | :53:11. | |
thank her for her question. In terms of the overall picture, we lust | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
declare that this is not about Junior doctors to work a lot of | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
extra hours for free. We do expect that, as we have increased `nd can't | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
come over Sunday services, lore people working hours partictlarly on | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
Sundays, that that might le`d to a higher pay bill. What we nedd to do | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
is to make sure that the proposals for the workforce that we h`ve at | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
the moment protect average pay, and as we move to seven-day services | :53:41. | :53:43. | |
that there are affordable for hot hospitals. In respect to her | :53:44. | :53:51. | |
question, we respect the right for doctors to strike, even thotgh it is | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
disappointing when they choose to do so. They have said on this occasion, | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
in a way that is quite a president... Unprecedented, that | :54:01. | :54:09. | |
they will provide emergency care in December. If there are areas that we | :54:10. | :54:17. | |
are not able to make altern`tive care arrangements, we would like | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
their support in those spechfic areas, not across the whole country | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
in asking Junior doctors to stop in on those cases for patient safety. | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
We have not had those assur`nces, but we hope that we will get them. | :54:32. | :54:38. | |
Command of an informative rdplies are appreciated. Progress so far, | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
the length of questions has a been a bit slow. I would remind thd House | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
that the next debate is verx heavily subscribed, so I would like to get | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
to everyone if possible, but brief questions and brief replies if | :54:55. | :55:03. | |
possible. When the Secretarx of State chaired his three continues | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
the meetings, did he take into account the fact that last xear we | :55:07. | :55:16. | |
had something like 43,900 excess... Largely caused by overcrowdhng | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
medical Department. What provisions did he make to avoid this, `nd to | :55:22. | :55:30. | |
make sure that it is not happening now? She is ready to be concerned | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
about winter deaths that we have had, but I would not characterize | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
her reason for those reasons for the excess deaths in the way th`t she | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
did. We think that there were caused by the ineffectiveness of the flu | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
vaccine, that was recommenddd by the World Health organisation l`st year | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
that proved not to be as effective as it normally is. The earlx size is | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
that this year's Vecsey will be more excessive -- and successful. The | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
those deaths at home, we ard doing everything this winter, as we did | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
last winter, to make sure that we demised the possibility of dxcess | :56:08. | :56:08. | |
deaths. Can I very gently remind melbers | :56:09. | :56:21. | |
that it is a good idea to continue to stand. One should not st`nd once | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
and then as soon thereafter the chair is psychic. I had a htnch the | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
honourable lady would wish to contribute, but keep standing. To | :56:30. | :56:32. | |
help the chair and is also helpful in terms of exercise. Can I welcome | :56:33. | :56:39. | |
that the BMA is returning to talk and there is a potential agreement | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
on the table, the dispute h`s focused on pay and hours but I think | :56:45. | :56:47. | |
actually it's roots may go deeper than that. For instance how'd | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
juniors often do not feel v`lued or part of the team. Does my rhght | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
honourable friend agree that the best way to improve the sittation | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
for juniors is for them to dngage in talking rather than striking? And | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
about talking as they are as a right choice by juniors for the ftture -- | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
who are the future leaders of the NHS. I do agree with my honourable | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
front who has great knowledge on NHS matters and I we say to junhor. | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
There's this is not just about contracts and pay it is also about | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
their training and having consultants more available `t | :57:22. | :57:23. | |
weekends will help improve their training but we also need to look at | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
the issue of continuity of training which I think has been undermined | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
over recent decades. It junhor doctors are looking for a vhsual | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
reflection of this government's commitment to the NHS look `t the | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
spending review statement of the last week, the extra resources we | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
are putting in tag circumst`nces. This is a government battling the | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
NHS and we are doing everything we can to back junior. There's. -- | :57:46. | :57:59. | |
junior doctors. A time-limited period during which the negotiations | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
take place, could the secretaries say whether it is a day and week or | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
a month and contract be imposed after that? I hope the honotrable | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
lady will understand that bdcause I am area much over the executive | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
committee of the junior doctors at the BMA will agree to go ahdad with | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
this agreement we have made with their negotiators. I do not want to | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
go into further details abott the contents of that agreement. | :58:25. | :58:26. | |
Obviously as soon as that agreement is made it will be published but I | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
think it would preempt that decision if I were to go into detail. It is a | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
reasonable period of time for negotiations to happen. It `ppears I | :58:36. | :58:43. | |
need to... I am very pleased to hear that all parties are possibly | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
background around the table and I joined Secretary of State and hoping | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
that the strike action is c`lled off. Following eight meeting with | :58:51. | :58:53. | |
the bath junior doctors this week and it was clear they will `lso be | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
delighted. Can he confirm as part of these negotiations that safdguards | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
will be a central part of the we negotiation? Obsolete. We w`nt to | :59:01. | :59:07. | |
reduce the number of doctors working unsafe hours, we want to make sure | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
that we have binding ways of making sure that hospitals cannot hgnore | :59:13. | :59:15. | |
the intention of any agreemdnt we make and ask doctors to work extra | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
hours that they do not want to work that may be unsafe or indeed ask | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
trade on the goodwill that leans that many doctors to work unpaid | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
extra hours. It is a very ilportant part of discussions that I hope we | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
will now be old to enter into. I have had a number of e-mails from | :59:34. | :59:37. | |
constituents about this matter. What impact of the Secretary of State | :59:38. | :59:42. | |
believe this fiasco will have over the long-term morale of staff in the | :59:43. | :59:46. | |
National Health Service? I'l afraid I do not agree with her | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
characterisation of this as a fiasco when we are making really ilportant | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
changes that will save patidnt lives by eliminating the weekend of fact | :59:56. | :59:59. | |
that we have had now for soletime in the NHS and that I think anx | :00:00. | :00:02. | |
responsible government needs to deal with. I think the way you ilprove | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
morale in the NHS is by makhng it easier for doctors to give their | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
patients the care that they want to give. At the moment that it's very | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
difficult at weekends in many places and we want to put right. Wd have | :00:14. | :00:22. | |
heard about the 20,000 cancdlled operations and the inconvenhence | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
caused to patients by the plant strikes but I wonder if my right | :00:26. | :00:27. | |
honourable friend could report to the House house serving the needs of | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
patients is featuring with negotiations of junior doctors so | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
that the patient can give the same level of care seven days a week | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
That is the reason why we h`ve had the whole dispute with the BMA and I | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
think it is disappointing that rather than negotiate with ts on | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
something and I think every doctor understands we do need to address it | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
has had to come to the 11th hour like that. In the end, he is | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
absolutely right to say that doing the right thing for patients is also | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
doing the right thing for doctors because doctors go into medhcine | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
because they want to look after patients. Thank you for your | :01:04. | :01:13. | |
statement. At the same time minister none of us want to see a new contact | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
impose upon the doctors that is the worst possible outcome. The NHS is | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
very important we have the seven day a week Ross that. In Northern | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
Ireland at the BMA represent many. Junior doctors were held as a | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
default matter. What discussion has the Minister had with those in | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
northern and discuss this? We are keeping in regular contact with our | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
counterparts in the devolved assemblies and parliaments `nd it is | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
up to them to decide what they do but I hope they will be encouraged | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
by the progress that I think we are beginning to make in the argument | :01:47. | :01:53. | |
for seven-day services. There are no winners on either side whendver | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
there is a strike so I do whsh the Secretary of State well with the | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
negotiations. What answer does he have for the doctors that I have met | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
who believe that this contr`ct chains versus junior doctors to work | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
even longer for less? I would like to categorically reassure those | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
doctors that is not the intdntion of the changes that we are makhng. We | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
have made it clear that we will protect the pay of anyone working | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
within their legal contractdd hours, three three quarters of | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
junior doctors will see thehr pay will rise as a result of thdse | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
changes. We want to deliver safer care and if we are able to go ahead | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
with negotiations that I hope we can put the BMA in the coming wdeks than | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
I hope will be able to put hn place very strong safeguards at all sides | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
that they agree will reassure his constituents. The Secretary of State | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
has got to accept that his responsibility in bringing `bout the | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
cancellation of operations, if he had been prepared to go to ` care at | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
the out that this could havd all been avoided. Does he accept you | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
will have to change of attitude towards negotiation with thdse | :03:04. | :03:05. | |
junior doctors that we are going to get a satisfactory outcome that we | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
all want to see? Let me say to the honourable gentleman that mx | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
attitude is very straightforward. I need to do the things that will make | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
patients and the NHS favour and I want to negotiate reasonablx with | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
anyone where there is a contract shall issue that needs to bd | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
resolved in order to do that. I think the government's position has | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
been reasonable. The vast m`jority of doctors will see their p`y go | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
up, the pay for everyone else working legal contracted hotrs will | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
be protected. I think this hs a very reasonably off till -- reasonable | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
offer that does a better job for patients but it has been difficult | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
to get through the BMA. I would urge them to talk to his friends at the | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
BMA and urge them to be reasonable and talk to the government `nd I | :03:49. | :03:50. | |
think we could avoid some of these problems. Can I thank the Sdcretary | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
of State and the BMA for thd work over the last two days in bringing | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
that hopefully to a resoluthon and encourage that spirit going forward. | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
Can I suggest that the main way in which bore out can be restorative is | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
to see that both sides are `t thing in the interest of patients and in | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
particular Asian safety which is so vital to both doctors and all of us | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
-- patient safety. I think no one knows more about campaigning for | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
patients that my honourable friend as he has done in his own | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
constituency and I congratulate him for that. I think that is rhght | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
There does not need to be an argument on a matter like it because | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
it unites but the government, what we want to do to make the NHS the | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
safest care in the world and what doctors themselves want to do. I | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
think the best way forward hs to put aside suspicion and for both sides | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
to recognise that actually we are trying to do the right thing for | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
patients, the right thing for doctors and the right thing for the | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
NHS. The Secretary of State has failed, he has failed patients, he | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
has failed junior doctors and he has failed his government. You dat | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
Secretary of State best to put aside suspicion, I suspect that the reason | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
why the Secretary of State did not agree to meet in a care sooner was | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
the cause -- so he could sndak in the announcement during the Autumn | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
Statement. Let me tell the honourable Lady but the failure was | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
here. And was to set up a contract for junior doctors in 2003 which has | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
made it impossible for hosphtals to roster popper grayer at weekends. I | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
think the duty of the secretary of state is to put right though this | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
oracle wrong so that patients are safe. -- proper care at weekends. I | :05:35. | :05:42. | |
am due to go to the hospital to meet some of the doctors on the picket | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
line tomorrow. I am sure we would all agree is far better that the | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
doctors are there working and their representatives are talking to | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
government representatives tomorrow instead. What my right honotrable | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
friend agree with me that in talking to the BMA their is genuine room for | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
the negotiation and agreement on many of the details? I have always | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
actually believed that this'll be better agreement for. There's | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
patients and the NHS if it hs a negotiated agreement becausd I am | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
sure the BMA have value that they can add in the negotiation process | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
to make sure that we implemdnt the spirit of what the government wants | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
to do and not just the lattdr of it. I would agree with what my | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
honourable friend says and H hope we can answer constructive serhous | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
negotiations. -- enter construct of serious negotiations. Mr Spdaker, I | :06:32. | :06:41. | |
have watched my friend for lotion East fight night and day seven days | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
a week for services and day seven days a week for services in of State | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
against saying that she has not fought for seven-day week sdrvices. | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
But can I help the Secretarx of State to restart this process with | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
trust, will he confirm that he has heard as I have heard from junior | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
doctors who in my constituency that their primary concern is for nothing | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
else but patient state. -- they should state. I do think th`t is a | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
primary concern of the vast majority of junior doctors which is why I | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
think it was wrong for the BMA to refuse to even sit down and discuss | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
with the government how we were going to implement a manifesto | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
commitment amah but because I now hope we can get past that, H will | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
not say anymore other than H think it is now possible to get a better | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
agreement for the NHS and I hope we will now be able to do that. Having | :07:34. | :07:41. | |
been fortunate enough to he`r book for my junior doctors and also from | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
the Secretary of State, it hs clear to me that both parties are talking | :07:45. | :07:46. | |
the same language but the communication has not quite filtered | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
through via the BMA. Once this matter is hopefully resolve the will | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
be Secretary of State think of ways in which dialogue can be improved | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
directly between the Departlent of Health and junior doctors? Ly | :07:59. | :08:05. | |
honourable friend is absolutely right. We have had some verx | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
unfortunate megaphone diplolacy over the recent months, but let le just | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
say I hope now we can put that behind us and I hope now lessons | :08:14. | :08:15. | |
will be learned because as he rightly said we have never wanted to | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
do anything other than what I think is good for. Or is as well `s what | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
is good for patients and th`t is what these proposals were. He should | :08:24. | :08:32. | |
not -- it should not have come to this and there'll be cost the | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
ablation of that but I welcomed the want of a cat to get to the states | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
and hope the strike would bd diverted. Could the secondary is | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
state attorney that the specific concerns are taken into | :08:48. | :08:49. | |
consideration considering they are on site all the time and have | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
particular concerns and of course that is essential in making sure | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
that hospitals are safe. Thdy have a vital role in providing proper | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
seven-day services and indedd in the highest risk operations it hs | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
obvious we very important to have consultants present as well to give | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
their very important judgemdnt I can absolutely get them that assurance. | :09:13. | :09:20. | |
If this do disaster is avoided we have an opportunity to move forward. | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
The honourable Lady Bird prdventing the opposition has offered her | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
support. One of the crucial failings at the moment is seven-day care is | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
social care. Would it be possible for both sides of the House to work | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
together to find the solution to this real problem? I hope wd can do | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
that because the opposition has talked regularly about soci`l care | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
and rightly so and the fact is that there are labour on councils and | :09:48. | :09:49. | |
conservative by counsel both responsible for the social care | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
system and being able to discharge into the social care system is a | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
very important part of seven-day services. I think we are now about | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
to enter into a period of ilportant reform in terms of the NHS `nd | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
social care integrations so I see no reason why that could not bd. Last | :10:07. | :10:15. | |
Friday 321 consultants gave their full support to the junior doctors. | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
It was the latest indication that the Secretary of State calldd this | :10:21. | :10:22. | |
dispute wrong from the start. Yes now had an opportunity to rdbuild | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
trust, would he accept that is not helped by him coming to the House | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
and delegating junior doctors and their representatives again as he | :10:32. | :10:33. | |
accept that is not helped bx him coming to the House and deldgating | :10:34. | :10:35. | |
junior doctors and their representatives again at thd routine | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
seven-day services with mortality of raids which is just not helpful I | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
am afraid he is as ever completely wrong. First of all I have not | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
delegated junior doctors I have spent a lot of time praising their | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
absolutely vital contribution as the backbone of the NHS and secondly I | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
have not completed routine services with mortality rates, in fact I have | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
done the opposite in answer to the honourable lady I confirmed that we | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
are talking about urgent and emergency care and making stre that | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
services are consistently ddlivered for urgent and emergency care across | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
the week. That is our priorhty and that does link to mortality rates. | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
As the chairman of the alternative dispute resolution can I confirmed | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
that it is always right to try to seek the amount of common ground | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
that exist before going into a negotiation with a cast and anyone | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
should not underestimate thd amount of common ground he has achheved in | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
getting the eight Gass talks to gather. Would you like to s`y what | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
it will now take to get the BMA to call off the strike. He is | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
absolutely right. Let me sax what is the common ground here betwden the | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
government and a junior doctors We want to make sure they are working | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
the hours, we do not want to cut their pay. Favourite care for | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
services -- for patients and the many junior doctors who do work | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
weekends to get proper and public support at weekend as well `s during | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
the week I think that is enough to come to a deal on. The health | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
secretary as an bird with hhs approach that junior contact | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
arrangements currently compromised patients or the. Can you tell us | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
which hospital TV executives have actually confirmed to him that that | :12:22. | :12:28. | |
is the case? Actually I can tell it was NHS providers, NHS employers | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
represent all NHS hospital just saying that trust are clear that the | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
current contracts for both consultants and junior doctors must | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
be reformed to provide it modernized and save seven-day services and our | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
hospitals. What assessment hs the Secretary of State made both of the | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
cost but also wasted NHS resources resulting from any strike action? I | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
cannot provide that information this afternoon because we do not yet | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
know. Whether the strike is going to go ahead tomorrow and also, the | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
operations will end up being cancelled in advance of that because | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
of late notice but I am happy to get an answer when I have noticdd. This | :13:14. | :13:22. | |
Junior Doctor dispute is not just about that we are very forttnate | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
that we have such marvellous junior doctors. My concern is and H know | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
their concern is about the changes in the proposed imposed contract | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
would have on the Junior Doctor and that that would have such a negative | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
impact on research and development which makes our National He`lth | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
Service greatest in the world. Would you comment on the change in the | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
contact impacted on the resdarch? Is there any chance in that? If there | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
is not would you please say that it is absolutely essential. I will do | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
neither of those things. Will soon discover whether the Secret`ry of | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
State wishes to do either. Thank you Mr Speaker. I hope she can be | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
reassured by the offer that the government made in November which | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
has specific reduction for staff who need to do research that thd NHS | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
needs them to do to make sure that they are not disadvantaged H doing | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
any of that research. I'm h`ppy to write to two. The plans we have | :14:25. | :14:32. | |
outlined. Does the Secretarx of State agree that rather than | :14:33. | :14:34. | |
treating this issue as a political football which the party opposite | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
appear to want to do they should take the advice of my honourable | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
friend and both sides should sit down and treat this statement for | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
the advice of my honourable friend and both sides should sit down and | :14:45. | :14:46. | |
treat this statement with a cautious welcome is not that the Secretary of | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
State agree that my constittents and are more concerned about thhs in | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
safety and ensuring adequatd 20 47 care by other than playing politics | :14:54. | :15:00. | |
of our NHS? I agree with th`t and I agree that improving seven-day | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
services across the NHS shotld unite all services across the House and | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
the government and the radical per pass medical profession. It is | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
unfortunate that we are at the position we have gone to but there | :15:12. | :15:13. | |
is an opportunity to get thhngs right and I hope that happens. I | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
welcome the statement and I very much welcome the conversations that | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
are going on, but there are many vulnerable and is that be bothered | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
let hat letters today from their local hospital saying that their | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
operation for tomorrow has been cancelled. Should we get good news | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
later this evening, is it too late to allow those operations to take | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
place bearing in mind in many rural constituencies and city | :15:40. | :15:40. | |
constituencies that transport has to be arranged for those patients to | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
turn up? My honourable friend is right to bring it back to p`tients | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
which is what we should alw`ys be doing and help the baby puppy sadly | :15:50. | :15:52. | |
I fear the majority of patidnts even if the strike is called off which I | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
hope it is it will be too l`te to rebook people in tomorrow. We in the | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
NHS will do everything we c`n to rebook a people and as quickly as we | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
can. But he is right and th`t is one of the very sad thing that happens | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
if people do not sit around the table and talk. I am grateftl to the | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
Secretary of State and colldagues. We now come to the backbench | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
business debate on the UK's role in the Middle East. Just beford I | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
called the honourable judgelent to move the motion I should pohnt out | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
that there is a very large number of would-be contributors to thhs | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
debate. Brad Barritt disturbing proportion of them are not xet in | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
the chamber. -- rather disttrbing. I hope that that will be remedied | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
before long. We do not want standards to slip. Every melber has | :16:44. | :16:53. | |
a responsibility to keep an eye on the annunciator, the honour`ble | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
gentleman says it started to zoom. It may have started too soon for | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
them but not for the honour`ble gentleman who typically is hn its | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
place at the appropriate tile and we are grateful to him as indedd are a | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
great many others to move the ocean I called. Develop. Figure Mr Baker I | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
would like to move the motion as it is stated on the order paper. Mr | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
Speaker Pursley May I think the Backbench Business Committed for | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
granting this debate and for the death Kevin de Bruyne three | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
colleagues who supported me in securing this opportunity to discuss | :17:27. | :17:33. | |
this more most important subject at this most critical at times. I would | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
like to thank the members for their support. The importance of this epic | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
to the House can be seen by the very fact the committee has seen fit to | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
allocate a full day to its discussion and to the number of | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
members who are present herd today and have indicated that thex would | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
like to contribute. At the outset and innovating this debate H fear it | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
the latest and comment on md to it knowledge ties to the Middld East | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
and to state my belief that with this unique history companids pestle | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
responsibility to continue to engage with the stiff cold yet crucial area | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
of the world. I am sure the Minister will like to say more about the | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
historic weeks links to the region later on. In the short time since I | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
made my initial application to the Backbench Business Committed we have | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
seen numerous developments relevant to the topic of today's deb`te. Ever | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
Russian passenger planes blown out of the sky over the pineapple | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
mantilla. A suicide terrorist attack in Beirut, more like walk in the | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the first full parliamentary eldctions | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
in Egypt, a deadly bomb att`ck in Tunisia. Have delete my tragic event | :18:44. | :18:52. | |
in Marat. The Downing of a Russian jet by the Turkish Air Forcd. The | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
unanimous passing of the UN resolution 2249 as well as | :18:58. | :18:58. | |
increasing anti-Semitic att`cks against Europe and violent clashes | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
with UK Muslim community thhs weekend alone to attempt to towards | :19:03. | :19:11. | |
mosque took place and this hs not an exhausting list. These events alone | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
serve as a minor of challenges we and the international committee face | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
when it comes to interest understanding issues and how to deal | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
with them. Before and during my time serving this chamber I have child | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
extensively in the region and worked as a doctor among Muslim colmunities | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
in the UK for seeking to dedpen my understanding. I lay no clahm to the | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
answers but one thing has always struck me as essential. That is the | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
need to take a coherent and competence of approach across the | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
Middle East as able and to recognise the shoots and roots of the threat | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
emanating from that region which are growing in our own society. There | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
are many such risk and thre`ts to confront and they are linked across | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
the whole region and are colplex, tribal and ethnic loyalties, old | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
world ties, religious differences, centuries-old conflict, both of | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
which transcend national borders. These all be double the reghon. The | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
consequent instability inevhtably build over into mass displacement of | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
people and consequent humanhtarian need. The serious global war, the | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
Yemen Civil War, the Libyan Civil War and the ongoing conflict between | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
Israel and the Palestinians. As a consequence, many have been sucked | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
and continue to be sucked in as global actors, proxy wars abound. | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
Saudi versus Iran, US against Russia. A huge rain and back there | :20:36. | :20:42. | |
is our involved in the Vienna process as evidence of this and | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
there are also historical challenges, changing borders | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
resulting in diverse communhties within national borders. Colonial | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
powers are maligned influence, US Russia and since 1979 what `ppears | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
to be a continuing battle bdtween Shia and Sunni. Within this complex | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
situation, the House is soon to be asked to decide whether UK `ir | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
strikes should be extended hnto Syria. Actually, I do not fhnd this | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
a difficult question. We must be clear though as to why we are | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
proceeding in this way. Firstly we must not. Must not declare war on my | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
fifth. We must not legitimise these barbarians in that way. Unlhke them, | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
we are not met Ito religious crusaders. What we should do is help | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
eradicate the people anywhere who abuse authorities allege to be had | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
children, systematically raped women, kill people whose religious | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
views or ways of life are not the as their own, whose extortion of terror | :21:50. | :21:51. | |
and hatred make it impossible for people to live in the territory they | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
control. The commit murder `nd spread terror and other parts of the | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
world. Such people are not worthy of whatever God in whose name they | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
claim to act. This is why I support the Prime Minister's propos`l to | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
extend air strikes into the ungoverned space of eastern Syria. | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
For the record I would have supported military action to create | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
safe havens for people in 2011 and they would have included Syria when | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
air strikes against Isis Dydss began in 2014. As I regard the current | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
circumstances where the RAF can find to flow and the not destroy it is | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
nonsense. The threat from them is clear and present. The legal | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
justification is strong and it is right that Britain should play a | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
leading role with its allies Andy Roddick 80- Dyess from the face of | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
the earth. -- eradicating Isis fast. Question is how we use military | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
force to Bishop on the started and honest political point. I do not | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
believe we yet have a sufficient answer. Military action nevdr have | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
reliable outcomes and it's threads fear and chaos. Air strikes will do | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
more harm than good as civilian casualties rise and infrastructure | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
is destroyed. Strikes are not is beside the game changer. I believe | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
they are an important part of a bigger effort. Air strikes lay be | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
our only hope of getting and keeping parties in the theory and Chvil War | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
around the table. But we must be clear about who we are fighting for | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
and how military action in. Our focus must be on building the ten or | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
20 years table and face and forced the need to generate B spacd needed | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
for lasting solutions to be found. I suspect that we will have to | :23:38. | :23:39. | |
contribute ground forces at some point and we must rapidly evolve a | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
new sort of international action capability if we are to facd up to | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
the immense task of social `nd physical reconstruction. Thhs needs | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
people capable of building foundations which underpinndd | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
stability. Political reform, economic development, legal systems, | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
education and the the creathon of opportunity for young peopld | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
engaging all people not just political elites. The government | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
stabilisation unit is a start. It must be built into be sort of | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
capability that the king of Jordan once described as an army of who | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
overall not blue helmets. The scope of today's debate is delivered to be | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
broad and there are three mdssages I hope it will convey to our country. | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
Every individual, every comlunity here in the UK has a stake hn the | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
direction the government chooses to take any Middle East and towards the | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
threat and risk which emanate from there. This is not about thd | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
immediate questions of forehgn policy or military action it is | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
about our future way of lifd to How we educate our children, how we | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
welcome and integrate refugdes, how we teach respect and loyaltx for our | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
country, our values traditions and laws. All these things affect | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
whether or not our generation will deal with the issues relevant to | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
today's debate. It is also true that we are and will remain at hhgh risk | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
of the fact -- attack rotting our bombing campaign against Ishs will I | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
fear increase that risk. Th`t is not a reason not to act. I belidve that | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
the majority of the British public understand that the front lhne | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
against Islamic stream is hhm is not just in Raqqa but it is also here on | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
the streets of Britain. Gond are the days of wars being fought in distant | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
lands. The past could be a provincial shopping centre of | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
tomorrow. Until we stop our society and new generations of radicalised | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
young people, until we stop sheltering people who wish our | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
society ill. Until we achieve a fully integrated society ond in | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
which values are shared on the laws are respected and loyalty to Queen | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
and country is separate frol loyalty to a religion. Will not be secure. | :25:59. | :26:06. | |
The risk of atrocity will rdmain. Second point, we must act any Middle | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
East. We must do so now and we must act much more decisively and comp | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
rapidly than ever before. Recognising where we need to do more | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
to achieve the long-term effects we want. Often in the past we have been | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
too narrow and react to. In the West we have tended to suffer from | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
chronic short-term -ism. Those who have travelled in the region can | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
attest to the differences of time in our respective world. We have been a | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
leader to the interconnected nature of the risk and threat and stiff | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
engagement is just not an option. But our approach must changd. Of | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
above all we must recognise the threat of Islamist extremisl and the | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
conditions allowing it to flourish and illuminate them all. Not just | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
its latest iteration Isis. We must remain credible consistent `nd | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
reliable partners to our regional and international allies in the | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
struggle. This must come with understanding that our allids are | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
often imperfect. We must thhs thing was carefully between regional | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
governments battling extremhsm and its regional supporters. We must | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
deal where of the ever-changing balance of power across the region | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
and that power is shifting `way from he leads to people on the street. | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
Arabic social media is an extraordinary force. We also need to | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
assess the relative power of religion, tribal loyalties `nd | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
national identities which in some countries are still quite strong. | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
For example, some have detected a reduction in legit adherencd | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
especially amongst the young. Of accurate, this phenomenon would be | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
hugely significant. We must accept that reform takes time on influence | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
and patient engagement not hn position and insistence. We must be | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
pragmatic treating the world as it is not as we wish to be. We must | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
better recognise trends, we did not see the Arabs spring or Isis coming | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
for to long we have played the equivalent of a child's gamd of | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
whack a mole with threats and challenges emanating from the | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
region. We deal or half deal with one symptom for another to pop up | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
elsewhere. We are not yet on a path to defeat because as of tod`y's wars | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
and instability were to deal with challenges fast coming down the | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
line. Is canned and must ch`nge Our national and international lachinery | :28:40. | :28:41. | |
of government must be strengthened to bring about that change. Our | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
strategic focus must be a more scalable region, the Vienna process | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
it a welcome sight that necdssary powers may wake up to the effort | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
that a long-term solution in Syria will take. We must wake up hn the | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
same way to the whole region. Is neighbourhood including the Gulf | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
states Iran and Israel has ` vital role. It must become a biggdr part | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
of the solution and stop behng part of the problem. This will not happen | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
without much stronger institutional machinery and sustained | :29:18. | :29:17. | |
international attention. This is not an excuse for not | :29:18. | :29:28. | |
acting, but it should deterline our priorities. Finally, my third point, | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
Parliament, this chamber, h`s an important constructive role, not | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
just in holding successive governments to account what it is | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
too late, but ensuring that it shapes policies in the first place, | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
but during our nations and our constituents asked interest, our | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
current range of interventions in the middle east are not yet on track | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
to end well. In some cases, we have already seen the effects in Libya | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
and the recent refugee crishs, others will play out over the coming | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
decades, we must set ourselves up to succeed as a nation, and not to | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
fail, we must consider our tent 20, indeed their two-year priorities | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
as well as any immediate threats. The education of the next gdneration | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
and the emancipation of womdn are crucially important, the Brhtish | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
consulate is doing good work in these areas particularly within the | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
refugee camps along the Syrhan border, work rank this must be | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
better funded and expanded further throughout the region, for H have | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
long believed that a deputy speaker that we need a maitre d' strategy | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
similar to that and ready commissioned by the Gulf st`tes | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
Here might Deputy Speaker I must declare an interest as my whfe | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
wrote, a newly adopted UK strategy toward the goal. Developing such a | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
comprehensive strategy towards the Middle East would have, of course be | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
a large undertaking requiring proper funding, it would certainly be worth | :31:01. | :31:07. | |
our while. Britain already off course contributes a great deal its | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
humanitarian aid militarily dramatically, we support our allies | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
we are strong and steadfast partner, this intervention, this | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
military intervention that hs proposed once beat a game changer, | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
but our brainpower, I would the dramatic clouds, and respect within | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
which we are held throughout the region very well could be. Let me be | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
clear, I believe that the most valuable role Britain can play in | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
the Middle East is to give the world a plan, for peace and stability in | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
the region. In closing, a word of caution from Winston Churchhll, want | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
of foresight, unwillingness to act with action would be simple and | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
effective, lack of clear thhnking, confusion of counsel until the | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
emergency comes, and self preservation strikes, these are the | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
features which constitutes the endless repetition of history. Of | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
such a moment in the regions history, it is important th`t we | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
step back, there is huge scope for miscalculation, it would be easy to | :32:18. | :32:19. | |
sleepwalk into a new Back above all we must challenge | :32:20. | :32:33. | |
ourselves. It is time he pahd more and attention to a way out of this | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
chaos. The iPod was the Daesh state must be prevented. To this | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
generation of political leaders about the responsibility of | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
delivering a comprehensive, long-term strategy for two Liddle | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
East. So as to achieve that noble goal. It will require patience, | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
courage, and determination. By applying ourselves properly, I | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
believe we can secure our children's future into our country | :33:02. | :33:09. | |
and the wider world a great service. The question is that this House | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
considered the UK's role in the Middle East. | :33:13. | :33:21. | |
So, I will put a restriction on the backbench speeches to begin with, of | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
seven minutes. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a gre`t | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
pleasure to follow that widd-ranging and comprehensive speech from the | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
honourable member for Bracknell It is well set out the problems that we | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
face, and the outrage that people feel when they look at the dvents | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
that are created following the horrific actions of the death cult | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
of Daesh. Decry it is something must be done. We are always being asked, | :33:54. | :34:01. | |
how can Britain intervened, what can we do to put it right? One of the | :34:02. | :34:09. | |
best writers I have seen an intervention, says intervention is | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
unpredictable, chaotic, uncdrtain, often prevents local leaders from | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
taking responsibility, does not put pressure on settlements between | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
enemies, and are often crippled by the frequent changing aims of | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
intervening governments. I have to say, I think that sums up what does | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
happen when you intervened. It is from that reality based, th`t we | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
have to decide, very soon, whether or not we as a country take over | :34:42. | :34:48. | |
intervention from Iraq, and consider intervention in Syria. One of the | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
things that worries me about this proposal, of intervention in Syria | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
is about our capability. Not capability in terms of whether or | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
not our Armed Forces are actually determined enough, whether they are | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
skilled enough, but actuallx whether or not they have the capability in | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
terms of platforms. If we look at the Gulf War, 1991, we had 36 fast | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
jet squadrons, today we havd seven. Only three of which are tornado | :35:24. | :35:32. | |
squadrons. We have eight tornado GR for aircraft in Cyprus, that have | :35:33. | :35:40. | |
flown 1600 missions and carried 300 -- 360 air strikes. No one has told | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
us how often in those missions, those aircraft had to turn back at | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
the Syrian border. I would like some facts on that. We are saying we have | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
to intervene, yet we do not know the facts. Let us get them back there. | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
We carried out one strike in formations, a strikingly modest | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
contribution. The tornadoes argued to be decommissioned in 2018, 2 19, | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
the pain had a pilot in the navigator, but we have got ` limited | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
number of planes, limited ntmber of pilots, and a shortage of n`vigators | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
for the GR for. We originally had six brains in Cyprus, now wd have | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
got eight, we need eight because they need considerable maintenance, | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
and use of spare parts in the other pins to keep them flying, wd | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
increased it to eight. Let ts be clear. We need eight planes in | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
Cyprus to fly two. The torn`do is an incredibly liveable attack plane, | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
capable of carrying 12 of the much talked about first, missiles, it is | :36:47. | :36:54. | |
better which is where the tornado exhales. Where the top typhoon | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
exhales, but the typhoon dods not carry it. We need to know, how many | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
tornado pilots, navigators, and ground crew would be needed to | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
maintain and armour planes to extend our mission into Syria. Is ht going | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
to be the same eight planes? Or are we going to add to those pl`nes If | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
so, where are those planes coming from? Where are the planes `nd crews | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
currently deployed? What missions will we need to these? Or ddcrease | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
to actually allow them to fly in Syria? And very importantly, will | :37:32. | :37:38. | |
harm guidelines be breached for those crews because that is a vital | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
question we need to know thd answer to. The Prime Minister told us last | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
week that 70% of the territory held by Daesh in Iraq is still to be | :37:48. | :37:55. | |
recaptured. Over 360 strike missions have only helped to regain 30% of | :37:56. | :38:03. | |
the territory over the last year. On that point, she has made a very | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
powerful speech. We went to Iraq, at the time it was clear to me that | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
what we heard was that the Sunni tribes, we made a number of their | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
leaders, wanted an army to take on ice. This was not happening, it was | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
essential to bring about a proper solution here. Thank you for your | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
intervention, you are right, the critical issue is how we engage the | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
Sunni tribes in fighting for their own future, how we ensure the Sunni | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
are an integral part of the change that is needed both in Iraq and in | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
Syria. Without them, or intdrvention is a nonsense and a completd waste | :38:47. | :38:57. | |
of time. I was also on the same trip, in the north of Iraq rather | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
than the Shia in Baghdad, one of the greatest forces that we havd in Iraq | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
and potentially also in Syrha are the Peshmerga. Thank you for your | :39:07. | :39:14. | |
question, he says absolutelx valiantly on the defence colmittee | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
with me, I know how much work he did on that trip, on that visit where we | :39:20. | :39:27. | |
really delved deeply into why the capability and the success of the | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
intervention was. Yes, of course the Peshmerga art tremendous assets | :39:32. | :39:34. | |
they are a great fighting force they are not going to fight | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
everywhere in Iraq. They want to focus on their own area, and they | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
want to focus on protecting Kurdish lands and Kurdish people. They are | :39:45. | :39:51. | |
not the Iraqi Armed Forces, they are the Kurdish Armed Forces. So the | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
Prime Minister told us last week that we are going to regain Morstead | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
territory. I don't want us to transfer our limited intervdntional | :40:03. | :40:09. | |
divinity from Iraq to Syria, and December 2015, our military presence | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
in Iraq outside of the Kurdhsh region was three individuals, we met | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
them. Formations there are critical to preventing Daesh spreading across | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
Iraq. I would urge everyone present to read the report that the defence | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
select committee produced in January of this year, outlining the problems | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
that we were facing in Iraq, and the capability that we had to intervene | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
there. Reports state that wd saw no evidence of the UK Government | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
seeking to analyse, question, or change Coalition strategy to which | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
it is committed. Ministers, and officers failed to set out ` clear | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
strategy for a rack a Christian definition of the operations. We saw | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
no evidence of an energised policy debates, reviewing our arguhng | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
options for deeper engagement. I will certainly give way. Is also the | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
case that if you are going to do if an attack you need to be able to | :41:11. | :41:12. | |
collaborate with forces on the ground to report to you the targets | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
and whether you have been stccessful or not in attack? That is exactly | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
the information that we need to Attacks have been made by otr | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
planes. What we do not know is how badly they were. Were they | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
successful, are they making a difference? Yet here we are talking | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
about intervening somewhere else when we do not even know how | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
successful our intervention has been in Iraq. The expensively tr`ined and | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
equipped Iraqi Army fell ap`rt when confronted by Daesh come thd Army | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
has to be structural issues, poor quality leadership, and a sdctarian | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
divide which must be addressed before any real progress in | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
combating Daesh is possible. The brutality of the fear Bale finishes | :42:01. | :42:07. | |
force Sunni tribes into seehng Daesh as the safer alternative. That is | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
never moved away that recognition. Senior record, it is possibly | :42:13. | :42:19. | |
difficult that we cannot make this happen in Iraq, what chance do we | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
have in Syria? What is the basis of the sectarian divide, is it simply | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
region? Visit also the age-old strategy of divide and rule, get | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
groups fighting between thelselves and I love the corruption, the | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
repression of the autocratic regime to continue, the property to grow? | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
Young men turn to jihad -isl when there is no work, no hope for the | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
future? In Syria, there is no compelling image for the future and | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
no leaders to rally behind, a state in the midst of civil war. @t least | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
in Syria, there is nothing that will pull people together, in Ir`q we | :42:58. | :43:04. | |
have potential. There is a Shia president I'm not a Sunni ddfence | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
minister, and a wonderful Ktrdish president. I congratulate mx | :43:11. | :43:23. | |
Honorable friend, the number for Bracknell on securing this debate | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
and on his very thoughtful introduction to it. Hear, hdar! I | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
share the outrage aroused bx the atrocities in Paris, Tunisi`, | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
Sinai, and elsewhere. Any action necessary to protect Britain from | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
similar horrors will have mx full support, especially if we c`n | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
simultaneously deliver fellow Christians and other minorities from | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
the temerity of the Isil regime But, I still need to be persuaded | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
that the government's policx is likely to be effective and | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
realistic. I want to be persuaded, but let me spell out my concerns and | :44:04. | :44:10. | |
doubts. Above all, we must learn the lessons of experience, from | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
Afghanistan, from Iraq, frol Libya, all of which continue to hatnt us. | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is to keep on doing the | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
same thing and expecting a different outcome. My colleagues are dminently | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
sane, I hope they have learned what I believe are the three lessons | :44:32. | :44:38. | |
three key lessons of recent history. First, it is comparatively dasy to | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
destroy a regime, but second it is next to impossible to install a new | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
regime or defeat an insurgency by air power alone without boots on the | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
ground. Jokes prepared to stay there for long term, preferably bdcause it | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
is their country, and third the only thing worse than a nickel rdgime, is | :44:58. | :45:04. | |
chaos and anarchy that may replace it. Bashed to radical. I nedd | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
persuading first, that if wd join the bombing campaign, it will be in | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
support of forces capable of retaining ground that air power may | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
hope clear. In Iraq we are supporting the Iraqi and Kurdish | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
forces and if it is militarhly necessary to take action across the | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
board in their defence that is fine by me. As far as Syria is concerned, | :45:27. | :45:34. | |
the 70,000 opposition fightdrs Principi of the free Syrian army | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
which do not belong to extrdmist groups. Is the Honorable melber | :45:38. | :45:46. | |
aware that when the select committee was in Iraq we were told th`t there | :45:47. | :45:53. | |
were one Shia fighters alond willing to combat Daesh? Do we not have a | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
greater chance in Iraq and hn Syria? A very good points that the | :46:01. | :46:02. | |
Honorable Lady made, she made an extremely good speech. But, I would | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
like to believe this free Sxrian army is more than a label attached | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
to a ragbag of travel trips and personal armies with no cohdrent | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
command structure. I would like to believe that they are moder`te, when | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
I was doing a study of the config any years ago, I examined m`ny | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
similar situations that the world and concluded that it is ne`rly a | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
law of human nature where pdople there at the disintegration of a | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
state, they rally to the most forceful and extreme advocates of | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
their group. In the circumstances, there are no moderates, so H this | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
too will have to rely on sole pretty violent and unpleasant forcds. I | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
would like to believe that there will be an effective fighting force, | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
but in October, General Lloxd wasted, he reported to Senate that | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
the programme to train some 540 moderate Syrians each year but it | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
cost a $500 million, so far had produced just four or five fighters | :47:05. | :47:11. | |
that could be counted on ond hand, I would like to be convinced that if | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
these moderates fighting forces exist they can be persuaded to fight | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
the Islamists rather than Assad who they consider their main endmy up | :47:20. | :47:33. | |
until now. Isn't the issue for the government contemplating air | :47:34. | :47:35. | |
strikes, the question who do they get in touch with on the ground that | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
we would co-ordinate with? Ly Honorable friend is absolutdly | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
right, it is far from clear that without trained forces, and we have | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
seen nearly filled to in tr`ining any, we could do that. My sdcond | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
area of concern is this aerhal bombardment in Syria, what ht | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
actually help prevent terror on our streets in Britain. And not one of | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
those who believe we should hold back from bombing Isil for fear of | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
provoking more terrorism. Even if there were such a risk to allow a | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
handful of terrorists to determine British policy would be cow`rdly in | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
the extreme. In any case, the truth is that these extreme Islamhsts | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
attack is not because of wh`t we do, but because of what we are. The | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
preamble to the memorandum to the Senate committee states that it is | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
from Raqqa that some of the main threads planned against this country | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
are planned and orchestrated. I would like to believe it is as | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
simple as taking out a comm`nd and control system to prevent the main | :48:43. | :48:44. | |
threats of terrorism in this country. Yet, even in that document | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
than detailing the seven plots foiled by Isil, security forces in | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
the last 12 months, that cl`im is watered down to saying that those | :48:55. | :49:01. | |
parts were merely linked to Isil, or inspired by Isil's Ogando the truth | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
is the atrocities we have sden in Britain and France were also | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
invariably carried out by home-grown terrorist, many of them werd | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
inspired by our propaganda or a previous suicide bomber's and | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
terrorists. I have not seen any evidence that they would control a | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
long dispatch from Raqqa. Those parts were hatched in Brussdls, not | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
in Syria. If French and Belgian security forces on the ground could | :49:34. | :49:36. | |
not identify and stop them, it is pretty unlikely that any pl`ns being | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
hatched in Syria could be prevented by precision bombing from 30 to | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
about 30,000 feet. In any c`se, the fact that one horrifying atrocity | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
photos another does not mean that they are directed and controlled by | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
a single organisation. We h`ve seen horrifying school bombings hn | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
America, one following another, example leading to another. That | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
does not mean that there was a controlling mind to them. The third | :50:05. | :50:12. | |
reason I have my concerns, hs that we are led to believe that there is | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
a degrading and disrupting Hsil will reduce the flood of refugees. As I | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
understand it, and I am open to correction, scarcely any of the | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
refugees coming to us or evdn going over the border to Turkey come from | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
the iso- controlled areas. Ly fear is if we bomb, reduce, and disrupt | :50:32. | :50:39. | |
the area a month that would add to the flow of migrants into Etrope. | :50:40. | :50:47. | |
The truth is, that the real reason that the government wishes to join | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
the operations in Syria is that we want to join with our US allies It | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
is the default position of friends that we should support Amerhca | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
unless there is good reason not to. That is a default position which I | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
hold, when there are doubts and reasons not to, we should argue and | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
persuade our colleagues to change their strategy before we john in. We | :51:14. | :51:21. | |
are celebrating this year, the 7th year of the birth of Howard Wolfson, | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
his great achievement was to remain in the closest ally of the Tnited | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
States not being drawn into the Vietnam War. I believe we should | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
learn from that example, and if my doubts cannot be cleared up, hold | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
back rather than join in with our friends and allies in their | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
endeavors which possibly ard doomed to failure unless they have boots on | :51:44. | :51:46. | |
the ground to support the bombs from the air. I will begin by also | :51:47. | :51:56. | |
thinking the honourable gentleman for Bracknell in securing this | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
debate. One of the first thhngs I was able to do in this housd was | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
secure a debate in the case which I know the Minister understands my | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
interest in. Since then, I have developed something of an insight | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
into how the UK sees its relations with countries such as Audi Arabia. | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
A country which indeed is cultivating a second Syria `nd | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
Yemen. Madam Deputy Speaker, we are continuously given assurancds that | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
Britain is working hard behhnd the scenes in ways which may not be | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
immediately apparent in orddr to secure concrete and durable change. | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
I do not doubt for a moment that this is the case, I stand hdre in | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
what is possibly the most self-satisfied legislature hn the | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
world. The mother of all parliaments, I have no doubt that | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
people on these benches which to see concepts of democracy, civil | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
society, and the rule of law. Things that they consider to be thdir own, | :52:55. | :52:59. | |
exported to other countries in the Middle East. The problem is a | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
reality in which the idea h`s yet to arrive. There are too many hn this | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
house whose idea of intervention goes back to a previous timd, when | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
asked to administer last wedk about the protection of minorities in the | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
inevitable conflicts, I my puestion by competing the Middle East to the | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
below you will pop up a century ago. I did so expressly, the fact is that | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
there has been a small group of peoples from the wider region over | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
that period and I cannot help but see this country own hand bdhind it. | :53:34. | :53:40. | |
It was David Lloyd George who said the template for UK foreign policy | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
in the modern era, financing, encouraging a disastrous Grdek | :53:46. | :53:48. | |
invasion of Asia minor, an `ction which ended in flames and a Pontic | :53:49. | :53:55. | |
Greek population which had predicted Homer was destroyed. Even the | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
greatest leaders cannot seel to help but overstretch themselves. He | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
thought he had no choice but to install them as regent in Iraq. A | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
region which was to empower a possibly the greatest Jewish city on | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
Earth, Baghdad, was cleansed of that Jewish population. Recently, with a | :54:15. | :54:21. | |
strip by Minister has led us back to the often overlooked the war in Iraq | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
was the setting to flight of one of the oldest Christian populations in | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
the world. Madam Deputy Spe`ker I do not offer these examples as a | :54:34. | :54:36. | |
reason as to why we should not intervene in Syria, if anything we | :54:37. | :54:46. | |
do not demonstrate the inefficacy of UK intervention, only that tsed more | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
often than not has unintenddd consequences. I do not doubt that | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
there is a robust military plans, and the military forces which are | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
surely the best in the world will have the vector of the Ashbx from | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
the air or on the ground. It is what we are reiterating that we on these | :55:05. | :55:07. | |
benches are not a pacifist party, the Prime Minister would do well to | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
remember that. Of course, it goes without saying that something must | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
be done, specifically to those who stop at the heart of Paris ` | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
fortnight ago, but the lesson we take of history is that it hs not | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
enough to see that something must be done. I beseech the Prime Mhnister | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
to show that he understands our unease and that he is unabld to put | :55:32. | :55:34. | |
the immediate problem at hand into the wider context in which ht | :55:35. | :55:41. | |
exists. Let us be in no doubt there is a wider problem facing as a | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
result of the Europe of 1914, from West Africa to the background to the | :55:46. | :55:52. | |
end of the Arabian Peninsul`, from the caucuses to Kashmir is ` series | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
of insurgencies, civil wars, failed states, that we are often unable or | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
unwilling to confront. My principle there is that in choosing D`esh in | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
Syria and Iraq we will simply reappear elsewhere, the | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
government's willingness to act in three out must be used not `s an end | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
in itself, but as a means to seek solutions in the broadest context. | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
What we need now is a modern Marshall plan for the region. The | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
participation of as many nations as possible, and the determination to | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
see that through. The most pernicious lie that too manx have | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
fallen for us is that this hs the clash of civilizations, unddr any | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
honours circumstance would be a series of local conflicts h`s been | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
given greater resonance by the injection of jihadist and sdctarian | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
rhetoric. A black and white distinction, drawn between the | :56:50. | :56:51. | |
faithful and the crusaders `nd the ability of many to bring thd near | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
war on the far war together, let us not forget this was denied hn's to | :56:57. | :57:04. | |
teach extreme. Too often, the actions of our governments have | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
exacerbated these problems, not from intentions for from its inability to | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
think about what follows an initial Matera envisioned. That there be no | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
doubt, have the Prime Minister come to this place with a plan not to | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
just bomb Syria but to ensure that there were both funds and a | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
rebooted, willingness to rebuild afterwards and give up its forces to | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
occupy and pacify it, if he had come here with a plan to place their | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
intentions in Syria into thd context of plans for the wider region, and | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
show that he had the willingness to join or build a Coalition of states | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
who are willing to spend a time untangling the myriad of regional | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
disputes that have set this part of the world of claim. | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
And the fact that the Prime Minister was able to come pretty close to | :57:52. | :57:59. | |
answer bring the seven points of the Foreign Affairs Committee r`ised, | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
there was a limitation on what he can actually say because crdating | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
this entire national Coalithon is active workgroup in progress, which | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
it wasn't back in September and October. That is the change and we | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
need our government to be ftlly committed to that process. @nd air | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
strikes on the one hand it's a small screen for the more substantial | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
question, as how art can our government that should the | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
international Coalition he hs talking about as either a 4 member | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
of the Coalition or continuhng to be at non-belligerents. He makds an | :58:32. | :58:42. | |
important point. They give ts the platform for the United Kingdom to | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
show the leadership that we are all looking for. I would of been willing | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
to support military action had the government met when I just like now. | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
But the reality is the Primd Minister has not done so. Instead, | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
what we have is a political version of virtue signalling. Afric` while | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
may be appreciated by our allies, does nothing to address the deep | :59:06. | :59:10. | |
misgivings of many in this house. Or amongst the wider public. The point | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
is not to attack Isis, the point is to defeat them. And not the feed and | :59:15. | :59:20. | |
Syria, but across the whole arc of insurgency. Walk our military forces | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
have learned from decades of involvement at the bridging, this | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
seems they are political masters have not. I think this final plea. | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
Applied the lesson from history Show us what has been learndd and | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
please give us a proper plan for reconstruction. For brilliant | :59:40. | :59:52. | |
speakers, out of four. My whll be a bit more modest. I have two problems | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
with the proposed interventhon in Syria. Is not to say that the | :59:58. | :00:03. | |
government does not care and is not true that nothing has been done to | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
engage the support of members on both sides of this house. This is | :00:08. | :00:15. | |
the result of careful thought over a number of years not a concltsion to | :00:16. | :00:23. | |
which we have come to over the last two or three weeks. We recognise the | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
appalling major of the attacks in France, just as we had to rdcognise | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
the attacks in the Lebanon the previous day as early attacks on a | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
Russian aeroplane and beford that, on the beach in Tunisia. Thd | :00:39. | :00:46. | |
question is not how can we deal with these attacks today or tomorrow And | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
said how can we solve the problems of Isil on a long-term basis. First, | :00:52. | :00:59. | |
we must not find ourselves tsing boots on the ground. Into something | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
that which cannot be solved by Britz or indeed United States, Russians, | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
or French. The PM has it cldar that our boots are not used in Sxria nor | :01:12. | :01:18. | |
those of any Westerners with for the moment include Russia. Thank you. I | :01:19. | :01:29. | |
am always extremely buried when you make definitive, when someone makes | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
definitive statements that will not use our Armed Forces to defdnd our | :01:35. | :01:44. | |
interests. Understand his fdar, but the Prime Minister himself said we | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
should not have boots on thd ground. Where are the support is coling | :01:49. | :01:55. | |
from? We are not speaking about one Army under one general, but several | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
different factions, some of which are competing against each other. We | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
cannot repeat what happened in Libya. It is not clear whether these | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
factions with the 70,000 Syrian fighters are composed of, are | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
organised and prepared to act. Whether they are able to move into | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
Isil grounds quickly otherwhse new criminals will arrive and appear as | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
soon as the old one is destroyed. The support needs to be relhable and | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
sustainable. How can we be sure that these are forces to count on? | :02:34. | :02:41. | |
Secondly, that is not one clear enemy to fight. The Russians appear | :02:42. | :02:47. | |
to support aside, while we support of rebel fighters declared `s | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
moderate. Russia's support of side has resulted in strikes hitting the | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
moderates. If there were in agreement with Russia it'll be much | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
nearer what we are aiming for. If there were agreement from Sxria the | :03:05. | :03:12. | |
moderates and the ascites than it would form a united front. H believe | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
a successful fight against Hsil is only possible when everyone on the | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
Allied side works together to defeat them. Always a pleasure to speak on | :03:25. | :03:41. | |
these issues. Were all very aware of the terrible events in Paris of the | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
last few weeks. The problems have developed in the Middle East and it | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
instilled into the streets of Paris. We are also aware of the kex | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
development in the Middle E`st. And half of the global problems that | :03:54. | :04:01. | |
arise as well. Of course we know... Got have tackle Daesh. And how we | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
respond in a very positive fashion. Cultivate interest to poor | :04:08. | :04:17. | |
countries... On the borders of, Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Isr`el. | :04:18. | :04:26. | |
Midwest, Bill sells adjusting to the region of turmoil. Ray James in | :04:27. | :04:34. | |
several countries nearby turmoil are reporting care risk of acquhring | :04:35. | :04:36. | |
long-range missiles, developing weapons of mass destruction. Before | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
cannot fully enjoy the advantages of stability even. At the fellow | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
Western states are susceptible to threats and other forms of | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
aggressive behaviour. Dispersal of Christians of the Middle East, of | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
aware that. The hundreds of thousands have in this versd from | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
Syria from Egypt, Lebanon, to our Brian, Iraq, everywhere elsd. | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
Countries can best adjuster, problem by housing cooperation amongst | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
themselves and forging an Asian .. Such a step would have applhcations | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
for Western interest as well as the Middle East. Is something I believe | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
the UK Government should promote. Social operations or alliances | :05:25. | :05:32. | |
between Greece and Turkey... Which is the issue that most needs | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
addressed. We need to strikd the right balance of this. With can t | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
seem to be interfering in other nations sovereignty. With md to work | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
more closely alongside the dastern European nations, particularly | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
Cyprus. It is, that we are very fortunate to have the art AF enabled | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
in Cyprus to some of our foreign Commonwealth ministers the past had | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
the foresight and vision to assure that we have. Very much a kdy part | :06:01. | :06:09. | |
to play in operations in thd future. Properly in the Middle East should | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
not be confined to the alre`dy destabilized regions, but working | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
more closely with all of our allies in the region. Says the comhng of | :06:17. | :06:26. | |
the Berlin wall and the collapse of the Soviet bloc two years l`ter the | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
West has in several ways moved eastward. The European Union opened | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
its doors to several countrhes and submit, North Atlantic Treaty | :06:38. | :06:51. | |
accepted... The Bosnian car set up... And intervene in the lilitary | :06:52. | :06:59. | |
in a written. Does have the West. And expected to the Eastern | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
meditative -- Mediterranean Sonitrol security. Let's look at the bigger | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
picture, as Greece, Israel, Cyprus, all those poor countries together | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
are better suited -- strategic part to be played. To their problems on | :07:17. | :07:27. | |
the grid by Minister attackdd is of the diving and a Russian pl`n and is | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
regularly encourages... Silly that that's not a way for England to | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
behave at a moment where facing the likes of Isis. He is right. It is | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
not the way to behave. Nonetheless, we have to work with those countries | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
who always denies to see if we can get an agreed strategy to move | :07:52. | :07:58. | |
forward. The Easter Mediterranean is where the... Use the force of nine | :07:59. | :08:07. | |
European Sock... Easter Mediterranean harbours political, | :08:08. | :08:16. | |
Western democracy live side-by-side, and some of... Such | :08:17. | :08:25. | |
gaps increased international attention and are still revhsions of | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
at at the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in the Syrian military occupation | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
showed. In 2015, was to havd this what the bridge and an turmoil. | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
Wicket stand back no longer, and no longer isolate ourselves in the | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
breaches that are global problems. Whether it's in a support role, or | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
consult of role, it is time for us to in the UK to stand up and make | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
sure that we undertake our obligations to the rest of lankind | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
seriously. And have nations less fortunate with difficulties that we | :09:04. | :09:05. | |
see in the Middle East. So they might enjoy the prosperity that we | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
in the West too often take for granted. The West long-term | :09:10. | :09:18. | |
strategic... The process cotld have potential to pacify some within the | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
turmoil and helping their pdople into the West forward. Drogheda for | :09:24. | :09:32. | |
example, could impact on thd West. -- Jordan. All of which havd | :09:33. | :09:41. | |
developed democratic institttions and look towards the breast -- the | :09:42. | :09:49. | |
West. Most countries by difficulties associating themselves on the ones | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
of tyrannical rulers Looking ahead to the things that we need to be | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
thinking about the long-terl and lasting solutions to the pl`gue | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
blessing to process it in the Middle East at this time. And now with our | :10:04. | :10:12. | |
allies the regions. Of the key to unlocking the flaws we need to have | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
a positive and influential role in the fridge and to maintain the | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
ability for Nato to operate in the region. Is imperative that we learn | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
from all too recent mistakes when it comes to how we act in the region. | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
To influence the direction of the region in which we which and | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
positive to the world. And the next two days, the House will make a | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
monumental and historic dechsion to go to battle in the Middle Dast But | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
everywhere air strikes or soldiers on the ground. Would look forward to | :10:44. | :10:53. | |
that decision. I like to also congratulate my friend for securing | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
this important debate. I agree with him that the UK has a particular | :11:01. | :11:08. | |
possibility for the region. A unique responsibility given the very | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
highest standard that our country has throughout the Middle E`st. A | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
lot to pay tribute to the chairman of the foreign affairs select | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
committee. His leadership dtring our recent visit to the bridge hn, but | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
also any way in which he has brought about to come by an centre of this | :11:26. | :11:32. | |
debate in the run-up to this. During a visit to the Ron and Friant, the | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
reissue I took away from th`t trip is the mutual hostility and | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
suspicion, and antagonism that exists between the two regional | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
powers, Saudi Arabia and Ir`n. This tension is starting to spill over, | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
not just in gym and can, but also in by rain and now Syria. Many other | :11:54. | :12:01. | |
countries including Kuwait `re caught up in this appalling tension | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
that exists between these two powers. I am very pleased that India | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
the Vienna talks, both Iran and Saudi Arabia are around the same | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
table. For the first time and it long time in my estimation. As I | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
said to the Prime Minister last week, it is vital that the Tnited | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
Kingdom uses its good officds in the UN to encourage and facilit`te | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
dialogue between us Saudi Arabia and Iran. On that point, I think we must | :12:35. | :12:44. | |
fully understand that the United Kingdom still has an excepthonally | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
good reputation and the Middle East, despite the fact that we have lost | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
so much of our military powdr. They still regard us as friends. Very | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
much. Suddenly whenever you travel throughout the Middle East, over and | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
over again, people highlight the fact that they see us. As an | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
impartial and honourable interlocutor is someone who can | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
facilitate dialogue to try `nd anticipate some of the tenshon that | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
exists within the region. Wd recently saw the show in a | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
restaurant of British diplolacy particularly over the agreelent the | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
nuclear agreement with our brand. Is some of us cast our mind, the | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
Chardonnay retentions that dxisted with that country, during otr visit | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
we spent at the British emb`ssy which had been trashed prevhously by | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
students, but if you pause for a moment to see the extraordinary | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
accomplishment of that painstaking process diplomacy, I patiently to | :13:50. | :14:00. | |
our... To show to a British diplomacy can achieve. So I do not | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
believe it is naive or even unrealistic to expect that the UK | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
could or ought to be trying to secure better dialogue betwden us | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
Saudi Arabia and Iran. It is essential that the government is | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
probed on the issue of strategy and planning and of run-up to a | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
potential bombing of Syria. Spend quite a lot of time on that | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
delegation to the Middle East with my Honorable friend. He wrote an | :14:32. | :14:39. | |
article in yesterday's paper outlining the case bombing `nd | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
Syria. He is the only one alongst the entire conservative | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
Parliamentary party voted against the Obama campaign and Lidi`. That | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
with a very courageous thing to do. Ignore the rest of the partx and to | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
go into the opposite lobby. I paid to be to have. He is a formdr | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
soldier with tremendous courage at that time. I recall from those | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
deliberations how the opposhtion, the Liberal Democrats and the | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
government, all rush to support the bombing of Gaddafi. It with an | :15:20. | :15:21. | |
emotional time for us. He promised to instigate a bug that in Benghazi. | :15:22. | :15:29. | |
I think we won it to do somdthing. So we sanction the bombing of his | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
military capability. Of course you can get rid of a dictated there | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
easily. It is the planning that had to take place to ensure that the | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
country is then administered properly, and that those important | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
seeds of a democratic society are allowed to germinate before we then | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
pass on responsibility to the local politicians. Does he share ly | :15:57. | :16:05. | |
concerns that when it comes to Syria and the bombing of Isis within Syria | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
that our relationship with Russia must be very carefully managed to | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
assure that we do not and that with a conflict that we are not looking | :16:13. | :16:23. | |
for? I agreed. -- agreed. Are bolted to Syria later if I have tile. The | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
lack of planning of boots on the ground has led so tragicallx to a | :16:31. | :16:32. | |
continued instability in th`t country. And the civil war that is | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
raging. The Minister will know about the difficulties and Lidia `nd in | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
particular that Isis has managed to take a route in certain parts of the | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
country. Indeed, some reports that I have heard of Isis have been, the | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
Isis in Libya has been identified as the most radical in the reghon. When | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
questioned what I wanted to pose is why are we wanted to bomb Isis in | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
Syria and get not in Libya `t this moment? The bar has to be r`ised | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
that much higher given the difficulties of Lidia. To assure | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
that those supporting the government on this issue, adequate timd spent | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
on the floor of the House and at some of those difficult questions | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
that ministers may not want to hear our assets so that the government is | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
better prepared in Syria th`n it was in Libya. I remember my fridnd, the | :17:27. | :17:33. | |
chairman of the Defense seldct committee in his intervention, I | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
would stake out of all the interventions that I heard during | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
that time, his was the most pressing in. He challenged the figurd of | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
70,000 moderates that we cotld work with and I think that it wotld be | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
extremely important for the government to listen to my Honorable | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
friend. And to debate as to how that figure came about and what those | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
forces consist of. During otr visit to the Middle East guess I give | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
way. He talks about the fred Syrian army in the figure of 70,000. The | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
free Syrian army hey Daesh hs said. But they hate aside even more. By | :18:15. | :18:26. | |
not addressing the other Assad, can we really trust the free Syrian army | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
to fight Daesh, knowing thex may get Assad, who they hate even more? I | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
hope that my friend will be able to build on that question and his | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
contribution. During our visit to the Middle East, southern rdgional | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
states were not able to explain to us what resources they will be using | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
committing in the air or on the ground. Of course there is the added | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
complication of Saudi Arabi` wanting to improve, immediate remov`l of | :18:58. | :19:05. | |
Assad and how that will plax about. Of course these regional allies | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
including Kuwait and the Emla Reds, Saudi Arabia and others are involved | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
in a complicated war and hulan. Which are stretching their | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
resources. I very much hope in advance of this vote, the government | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
will be able to explain to ts what our virginal allies will be | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
contradicting. It is a positive to hear that the Germans of thd | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
contributing 15,000 troops ,- 1 00 just. -- just. As time is rtnning | :19:34. | :19:42. | |
out, I would like to say, grew up my Honorable friend that is extremely | :19:43. | :19:44. | |
important that the government works with Russia on this issue. H | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
regularly attend a fence at the Russian Embassy and speak on heart | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
came. It is fashionable to be anti-Russian at this moment of time. | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
To see brush up to a Cold W`r lens, I believe that we have to come | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
together despite all of our differences at this time. Sdt aside | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
those difficulties that we had with President Putin and work together | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
with him and others to bring about stability for this country. I would | :20:15. | :20:21. | |
echo, unless there is a competent strategy, it will be about the rat | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
situation why we do feed thdm somewhere, and they pop up too | :20:29. | :20:37. | |
quickly. Is come to my attention on twitter that the Prime Minister will | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
be making a statement tonight on Syria at this 7pm. Extends the | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
statement will be on television rather than the House of Colmons. I | :20:48. | :20:56. | |
thank the gentleman for his point of order. I of course have no way of | :20:57. | :21:03. | |
knowing what did anything that has gone on a social media is correct or | :21:04. | :21:10. | |
not. I have no idea of the truth of what the gentleman says. Popeye sure | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
that the gentleman would not have raised this point had he not send | :21:14. | :21:21. | |
something to that effect. All I can say is I have every confidence in | :21:22. | :21:28. | |
the right honourable gentlelan, the Prime Minister if he has solething | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
of importance to say to the nation about Syria or indeed any other | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
important issue, that peopld come first to this chamber, to this house | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
to say it. I'm quite sure that he will do in due course. To all the | :21:46. | :22:04. | |
said. 90% who claimed that Scots descent,... Thank you to my | :22:05. | :22:13. | |
Honorable friend. Became adjusted time. For a number of peopld... And | :22:14. | :22:23. | |
seem to be an occasion to gtzzle on the calendar. For a big and people | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
who are around the globe, a time of reflection and preparation to | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
celebrate the birth of a convicted criminal, a Palestinian whose | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
message of peace and goodwill to all is desperately needed as today has | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
ever been in the two got thd gears since he walked the very lands that | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
we are speaking about this dvening. I do not pretend to be an expert on | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
the complex is due to the Mhddle East. Intimated that if nond of us | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
did. I suspect a lot of the problems in the region have improved cause | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
the fact that so many experts from other countries that they knew | :23:10. | :23:17. | |
better, or new best. I could from a simple belief that the rights and | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
wrongs, that is morally defdnsible and indefensible, and I want to see | :23:25. | :23:32. | |
a UK about the foreign policy that is right in terms of what is morally | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
right. In terms of political, economic excuse... Against other | :23:40. | :23:47. | |
measures, it has to be said that the UK record has not been parthcularly | :23:48. | :23:56. | |
impressive. Will talk about allying with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Ar`bia is a | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
merciless abuser of the death penalty. They supply weapons to | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
Saudi Arabia and pretend not to know that those same weapons are being | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
used in the killing of innocent civilians and given. We honour the | :24:11. | :24:17. | |
Israeli and PM, despite the fact the position of the UK Government at the | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
old government acting against international law. We are allowing | :24:22. | :24:29. | |
weapons, they're pretending not to note they could be contributing to | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
the hundreds of deaths of innocent women and children in Palestine We | :24:33. | :24:40. | |
said very quickly -- set a cap on the willingness to welcome refugees | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
in Syria. But we are not gohng to set in a cap on a number of missiles | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
or bombs we are prepared to send over there. Will not set a cap on | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
how long the military bombardment will continue. I'm sure he hs aware | :24:55. | :25:03. | |
that his honourable friend, who sits on the bench is on the commhttee, | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
was with this in Saudi Arabha last week. And her distance of rdceipt | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
desperate things on the campaign and given. I hope he will spend time | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
with his friend to find out the static perspective on this. -- a | :25:17. | :25:29. | |
Saudi perspective. My point is that if we continue to operate a policy | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
in the Middle East, which is based on the interest of UK citizdns, UK | :25:36. | :25:43. | |
businesses, investors. Will continue to... A lot of thank the Honorable | :25:44. | :25:51. | |
member. Another welcome Middle Eastern immigrant to Scotland. On | :25:52. | :26:01. | |
the point, I would like, how too soft in the story, but if they are | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
in the improved breaches of international military and law, I'm | :26:05. | :26:06. | |
sure that all of us in the lot would an investigation. | :26:07. | :26:14. | |
I certainly welcome such an investigation, perhaps that | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
investigation should have t`ken place before we started to supply | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
weapons, certainly afterwards if you discover that they were used for the | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
one purpose. Madam Deputy Speaker, my concern is that United Khngdom | :26:28. | :26:35. | |
and the international may h`ve become so entrenched as part of the | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
UK economy that an awful lot of people in the UK effectivelx have | :26:39. | :26:45. | |
got arrested for bachelor interests and not finding a peaceful | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
resolution to complex. I don't think that is a good position to be in. We | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
have got to be prepared to defend ourselves, I heard an issue with the | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
fact that there is a business in my constituency involved in thd | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
military industry. Technology is used for the willingness soletimes | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
to provide technology withott asking too many questions, and getting | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
assurances of what they will be used for. Certainly it has not hdlped to | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
bring peace to the Middle E`st or to a number of other trouble spots | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
around the world. Madam Deptty Speaker, this debate clearlx | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
dispatched the whole of the Middle East, it is quite likely within the | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
next three days this Parlialent will be asked to take the greatest and | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
most serious decision that `nybody of people can be asked to t`ke. | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
Something that troubles me greatly is a key consideration for some | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
members here, maybe then thdy might not have an maintaining or | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
undermining individual politicians in this chamber. The very f`ct that | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
the media believe that will be a factor is something it should give | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
us all cause to stop and thhnk. If we genuinely believe this P`rliament | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
is seen as a beacon of integrity, integrity around the world, the | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
possibility that a decision to go to war could be influenced by domestic | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
political considerations back home. I desperately hope that will not be | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
a consideration for any one of the 650 people who will be charged with | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
that decision. I have got a horrible feeling that my hopes may not be | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
realised. I will give away one more time. Whether or not the twhsts or | :28:36. | :28:43. | |
turns should affected we decide to do, would you not agree with me that | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
with a sole exception in 2003, when Mr Blair took us in a sole dxception | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
in 2003, when Mr Blair took us any good lead to war has never been able | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
on the matter in this chambdr before, what he is describing is a | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
very good reason for returnhng the old system which works extrdmely | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
well, there was no vote at `ll until after it took place. But Deputy | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
Speaker, my comments are not about whether individual groups of MPs | :29:11. | :29:19. | |
whether they may be applied to them. I would take the view that has never | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
been tested in 25 years, I would take the view and follow my | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
conscience. That is my decision for every member here to take. That my | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
concern is that there is certainly a feeling throughout the Unitdd | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
Kingdom and elsewhere that for some people could be decisive for some | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
people considerations about the impact it will have an positions | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
within this chamber will be a factor and a decision to go to war should | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
never, ever be affected by such factors as that. When we look at the | :29:58. | :30:06. | |
justifications being given so far from involvement in an area of | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
bombardment in Syria, I continue to have serious, serious concerns. For | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
those who believe there isn't a thing as a just war, one of the | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
requirements it must have a reasonable prospect of succdss. | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
Aerial bombardment can it achieve without boots on the ground. It has | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
been suggested that those troops would have come from the Unhted | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
Kingdom despite the fact th`t the UK Government has seen under any | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
circumstances, if they have come from the UK will have no idda what | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
it will come from. There is no indication whatsoever of anx | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
cease-fire between any combhnation of those actions. Madam Deptty | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
Speaker, my fundamental concern about the idea of airborne lilitary | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
action in Syria is simply that it will not achieve its stated | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
objective, to me there is lhttle opportunity, little chance of | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
achieving its stated objecthve, cannot be identified. Can I say I | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
fully agree with him, milit`ry action can degrade, control, but it | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
cannot defeat the evil ideology which this evil organisation pushes | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
and pandas at every level. That strategy has to look at dealing with | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
the ideology as well as dealing with the military action. Thank xou for | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
that, and, in fact the question I asked the Prime Minister last week | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
was based on that very point. I was going to let him finish the | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
sentence. Since it is sent on Tuesday. -- is Saint Andrews Bay. Is | :31:49. | :32:00. | |
another thing to move the circumstances were organisations | :32:01. | :32:02. | |
such as Daesh, Todd about, OK that will continue flourish. Thank you | :32:03. | :32:12. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, I intdnd to take a slightly different t`ck and | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
not speak about Daesh as most of her colleagues have, I want to focus my | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
remarks on the failure of otr constructive relationship whth | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
Israel, and the contribution that it makes to peace and stabilitx. The | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
selective discrimination ag`inst Israel in UK university campuses | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
contrasts with the huge bendfits, the British Israel academic policy, | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
an initiative of the British Embassy in Israel and the British Consul. | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
Israel is a multiracial, multiethnic democracy, where Arabs, Jews, and | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
other minorities are guaranteed equal rights under law. Is opposed | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
declaration of independence grants all of Israel inhabitants epuality, | :32:59. | :33:05. | |
social, and political rights perspective of religion, race, or | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
gender. Is currently the only functioning democracy in thd Middle | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
East. In stark contrast of other Middle Eastern countries, there are | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
no legal ejections on movemdnt, employment, or sexual or modulations | :33:18. | :33:25. | |
for any of Israel's citizens. All all is really citizens from every | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
minority voting in elections on an equal basis. In the past two months | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
there have been over 90 terror attacks which have seen the deaths | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
of 21 Israelis and many mord injuries from stabbings, shootings, | :33:38. | :33:45. | |
yet Israeli hospitals have treated both victims and terrorists | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
regardless of their nationality I think she should, Moxon to beginning | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
of October, the balance in the West Bank has resulted in 85 deaths, 9171 | :33:59. | :34:06. | |
Palestinian injuries, and 133, that is a ratio of 69 21. I will come to | :34:07. | :34:20. | |
those members when I continte. Graeme most recently providhng a | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
system suzerain refugees arriving in Greece and elsewhere, balance has | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
been implemented by repeated inflammatory false allegations from | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
the Palestinian authority. @ccusing Israel planning to destroy the | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
al-Asque Mosque and other Mtslim holy sites in Jerusalem yet the | :34:41. | :34:47. | |
medical Center, home to Jertsalem's largest emergency Ward treats the | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
cities wounded regardless of whether they are victims or attackers. At | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
the medical centre, a corporation between Palestinian and Isr`eli | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
doctors has helped to save 607 Palestinian children since 2005 | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
Depart, hospital has mixed ledical staff and treats both attackers and | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
victims often in adjacent w`rds I wonder whether Mike Berrer like me | :35:18. | :35:25. | |
she, the doctors in Tel Aviv, whether she acknowledges thd work | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
that they do in the Palestinian territories, particularly in Gaza is | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
second to none in saving chhldren's lies. If I continue my remarks you | :35:35. | :35:44. | |
will see that I have covered those. Israel pharmaceutical industries | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
provides the NHS with one in six of its prescription medicines laking it | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
the NHS largest supplier of generic drugs. And is leading the world in | :35:52. | :35:58. | |
the development of drugs to combat Alzheimer's disease, cancer, | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
Parkinson's, and multiple sclerosis. These scientists have developed | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
methods for producing human growth Armand and interferon, a group of | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
proteins effective against viral infections. A medicine effective in | :36:10. | :36:16. | |
the treatment of multiple sclerosis, was developed in Israel by the | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
pharmaceutical, from basic research to production. It has developed | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
early diagnosis for mad cow disease, genetic disease in humans, | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
with a urine test instead of a brain biopsy. And identified the gene that | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
causes multiple muscular dystrophy and the gene linked to posttraumatic | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
stress disorder. Three new what the research programmes were announced | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
by the British Embassy in Jtly 0 15th between the UK and Isr`eli | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
scientists. The work of Isr`eli research institutions such `s Tel | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
Aviv University and the Institute improves the lives of peopld in poor | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
countries by sharing Israel's expertise in waste water trdatment, | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
purification, and water reuse. The programmes will enable scientists | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
from Britain, Israel, and the region to work together to tackle water | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
shortages. Israel is one of the founding members of Digital five, a | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
group of leading digital governments which met for the first timd in | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
London in December 2014, and in March 20 15th, it was announced that | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
the UK is rather academic programmes, projects will rdceive | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
cyber research funding from the UK Government. Value of trade `nd | :37:38. | :37:45. | |
services between the UK and Israel is now over four and a half billion | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
pounds a year, and the UK is Israel's second biggest export | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
market. British businesses like HSBC, Barclays, and Rolls-Royce and | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
others have invested more than 1 billion in Israel. The UK and Israel | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
worked closely together in technology goal and scientific | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
research including cyber security. In short, Israel is a talent to Max | :38:10. | :38:16. | |
power and their society, crdated an innovative, it produces, develops, | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
and advance knowledge. Granted, written's close relationship with | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
Israel is a force for good hn the Middle East and it is essential that | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
we build and maintain this strong relationship. After much affection, | :38:30. | :38:40. | |
research, and listening to the views of many people, including | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
constituents, fellow members on both sides come and the government I have | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
decided I cannot support Brhtish military action in Syria, I will be | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
posting against any motion hn this house this week. It is my vhew that | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
the eradication of Daesh from Syria, Iraq, and around the world hs a | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
necessary process. One in which the UK should be engaged includhng an | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
effective military action. H am not currently persuaded that it would be | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
lawful for the Royal Air Force to bomb Syria, Iran agreed that it is | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
arguable and it is not the principal reason why Oprah, oppose thd reason. | :39:17. | :39:26. | |
I would recommend highly thd House of commons which is excellent on | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
that matter. By that, there are three tests which I do not believe | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
the government has passed which the Prime Minister failed to satisfy in | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
his statement in Commons last week. Firstly, there is no tactic`l plan | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
for taking control of the areas currently occupied by Daesh, should | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
bombing be successful in thdm. Which itself is questionable given the | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
bombing of those areas by 10 other countries have continued ovdr 1 | :39:51. | :39:59. | |
months. There are insufficidnt competence, relevance, or motivated | :40:00. | :40:07. | |
ground to the at present. The Prime Minister said the head of the | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
serpent is in Iraq, and therefore we must attack Raqqa. Does my Honorable | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
friend agree that it is not a serpent is a hydra, if you chop off | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
one head, more heads would roll and they will grow in other are`s? That | :40:22. | :40:31. | |
was a rather simplistic analogy to draw, secondly, there is no | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
functioning international alliance that can turn short term military | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
gains into a programme for the peaceful governments of Syrha, | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
Vienna talks are a start of such a process, but presently the `ims of | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
Turkey, Russia, Iran, and the Nato countries are so desperate `s to be | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
chaotic. Does he agree with me that it is essential to build an | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
international alliance to t`ke action against Isil, Daesh hn many | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
other ways that can be taken other than simply to air strikes. That | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
includes stopping the flow of weapons, into Syria and above all | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
blocking the revenue, particularly the overview new flowing in at the | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
rate of one and a half billhon dollars a day. We need to | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
demonstrate there is intern`tional Corporation on these things, | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
alongside any other measures the government may bring forward. So, | :41:25. | :41:32. | |
apart from lack of tactical or should eject basis, my third reason | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
is that the permanent defeat of Daesh interior requires the end of | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
conflicts which is what allows them to thrive, any short-term | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
entrenchment will likely benefit the Assad regime. It self is possible | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
for seven times the number of civilian deaths this year as Daesh | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
ugly and may mean a shift in the balance of forces and may bring us | :41:56. | :42:03. | |
no nearer resolution. What H would like to see is Britain engaged in a | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
dramatic effort to bring Russia and Iran away from their support of | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
Assad and Turkey and Saudi @rabia from giving comfort if not `ctual | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
support to Islamist extremism. I would like to see a peace process | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
that allows nonaction is a position to talk to the acceptable p`rts of | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
the Syrian Arab army and Kurdish forces. And a concerted attdmpt as | :42:27. | :42:29. | |
my Honorable friend just sahd to cut off the funds and other | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
international support for D`esh That is a very difficult, pdrhaps | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
impossible agenda. But to engage in bombing missions, something must be | :42:41. | :42:42. | |
done or even a solidarity b`sis without clear objectives dods not | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
show sound judgement. There are other arguments for and agahnst | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
intervention, the contributhon would be small, especially given the lack | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
of military targets without the risk of civilian casualties. That we | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
should support allies whethdr the Iraqi or French governments, that we | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
remain at risk from Daesh attacks or the UK, with a retake furthdr | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
military action against thel or not. Of the three points, I | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
mentioned above are my redlhnes they are also I am pleased to 1 0 to | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
one in the letters and e-mahls I received from my constituents in the | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
last few days and weeks. I would of course give you my decision, in the | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
likes of changing events. Ghven the UK's poor record of intervention in | :43:34. | :43:35. | |
the Middle East over the past decade, I think that further | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
military incursion should only be approved if a high burden of proof | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
can be established. Having dealt with that mind Deputy Speakdr, may I | :43:45. | :43:51. | |
anytime I have remaining tile two dozen other issues in the Mhddle | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
East albeit necessarily bridfly The first is the current situathon in | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
Israel, Palestine, I am sorry that you than to a beach a few moments | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
ago which gave a very one-shded view of that situation which as lost | :44:06. | :44:13. | |
serious many, many years. It is not the issues are new, we are familiar | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
with what they are, it is the growth of the Israeli settlements which now | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
almost 600,000 people in thd occupied territories, a shoot to | :44:22. | :44:28. | |
kill policy and increased use of live fire, increase use of home | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
demolitions, child attention the past laws, the checkpoints, the | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
barriers, and restrictions on access to the sanctuary and other holy | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
places. None of these things is new, but the intensification of their use | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
by the occupying power is mtch more significant. That is going on partly | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
because of the extremism of the Israeli government and partx because | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
tragic events elsewhere in the Middle East give cover for that | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
They are often distractions, today I will not because of the timd, there | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
often distractions because suddenly the you have decided to impose a | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
restrictions in Netanyahu this morning said he was not going to | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
talk to the EU. These are ddtails, it is important that we do not | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
import the common good, in the great scheme of the occupation, these are | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
details I can only quote an article from the Guardian a prisoner in | :45:28. | :45:35. | |
Israel who said the last dax of occupation is the first day of | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
peace. That is what we should keep our eyes on, the fact that this is a | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
country that has been occuphed for many, many decades. Justice will | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
never be achieved in Palesthne until Israeli forces withdraw. Finally, | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
can I turn to the issue of the golf? Another matter that would need | :45:55. | :46:01. | |
a whole debate in itself. I have to say on that I think the | :46:02. | :46:04. | |
government's policy is just wrong. Our support for Saudi Arabi` given | :46:05. | :46:12. | |
the variety and many things occurring within that regimd, and | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
indeed for Bahrain where we are building a naval base, and the UAE, | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
all of which have appalling human rights records on matters which | :46:22. | :46:28. | |
cannot be airbrushed and ought to be reviewed. Nowhere is that clearer | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
than in what is happening ctrrently in Yemen. I believe the Fordign | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
Secretary is on record as s`ying that he will support the, the UK | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
will support the Coalition hn every practical way, short of eng`ging in | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
combat. That has meant for dxample it the British may cruise mhssile | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
was used by the Coalition destruction of a summit factory on | :46:57. | :47:04. | |
the 23rd of September in apparent violation of international | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
humanitarian law. It is also been said by the head of the | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
international committee that Yemen after five months looks likd Syria | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
after five years, Yemen is ` forgotten war, it is a war hn which | :47:20. | :47:26. | |
the Saudi led forces are crdating havoc and are creating a military | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
and are creating a Unitarian outrage on a daily basis. That is not to | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
defend the other forces werd equally guilty of atrocities, but it is | :47:35. | :47:41. | |
wrong dad voices reject or tactical, or other reasons that the British | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
Government is giving its unpualified support to the Coalition. It is | :47:47. | :47:54. | |
wrong they are supporting rdgime in the golf which oppresses thd | :47:55. | :47:56. | |
majority of its population which carries out torture at human rights | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
abuses. While the government is prepared to condemn such abtses in | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
other countries, it is not prepared it appears to do so in the case of | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
golf countries for either hhstoric reasons or indeed for reasons of the | :48:13. | :48:24. | |
premises. I believe it should do so. Thank you very much indeed that a | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
Deputy Speaker, first we echoed by JB on your... Honorable member for | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
securing this time a debate, I will like to draw the House cost | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
attention IT to debate in a study different direction. Our role in the | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
Middle East must be to support countries who's apprised forwards to | :48:42. | :48:48. | |
questions, and hope protect the rights of all minorities, women | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
challenge those who seek to persecute minorities for thdir | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
religious beliefs and practhces A century ago, Christians madd up 20% | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
of the population in the Middle East, this is dramatically falling | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
to 4%. Christians face prison sentences, and executions for | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
practicing their religion in many countries across the Middle East | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
where hatred of Christians hs ignored or encouraged. -- is | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
carrying out a campaign of persecution against minorithes in | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
the Middle East. At least 5000 have been murdered in Iraq since August | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
2014. With the advance of D`esh forces who have declared thdm as | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
devil worshipers, the rise of Daesh has intensified persecution of | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
Christians in the Middle East. Card is Syrian and Iraqi Christi`ns have | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
been murdered with methods tsed including crucifixions, and | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
beheadings. Daesh has edited thousands of Syrian Christi`ns from | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
their homes and in other ardas and has demanded that Christians either | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
convert or pay a tax for non-Muslims. They have destroyed | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
countless churches, and Chrhstian shrines, and have carried ott at no | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
religious cleansing of Christian minorities. Any Muslim who converts | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
to Christianity is considerdd to have deformed apostasy, the culture | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
is abandonment of Islam. Sent parts of the Middle East this is ` crime | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
punishable by death. Christhans live in a threatening atmosphere in many | :50:17. | :50:18. | |
countries in the Middle East, including air on where therd were | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
hosted the chairman of minorities would improve under President, | :50:22. | :50:28. | |
Christians in Iran continue to be arbitrarily arrested and face of | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
used in police custody. Elsdwhere in the Middle East, recent years have | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
seen the burning of churches in Egypt, hundreds of Christian Coptic | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
girls have been kidnapped, `nd forcibly converted to Islam, as well | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
as being victims of rape, and forced marriages to Muslim men. Thdre are | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
no churches left in Afghanistan and in 2012 the grand Saudi Arabia | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
proclaimed it is necessary to destroy all the churches of the | :50:55. | :51:01. | |
region. I welcome the Commons the Honorable member is making on the | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
state of Christian duty in the region, it is after all the crucible | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
of Christianity and Ray Jests Christ himself emerged in the Arabhc | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
communities that have been destroyed. There is one glilmer of | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
light, that is the United Arab termites which has seen, ... I thank | :51:16. | :51:25. | |
the Honorable gentlemen, I think he has made the point superbly. During | :51:26. | :51:38. | |
the select committee's visit to Iraq, we also went to Jordan where | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
one of the things we were extremely pleased to hear was that he has | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
opened the Jordanian borders to all questions and they have accdpted a | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
large number of Christian rdfugees there which has caused problems for | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
him. He is determined to provide its. Thank you for that | :51:56. | :52:02. | |
intervention, it cannot collect a highlight of your first terl, I had | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
the great honour of meeting the king if I first Parliament in thd last | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
five years. The most amazing gentleman I think I have evdr met | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
and Godspeed to him. Is thotght contrast to these countries, the | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
State of Israel remains comlitted to its declaration of independdnce to | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
ensure the copied equality of all of its citizens irrespective of | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
religion. Since his own's founding in 1948, its Christian popularity | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
has increased a thousand fold, today Christianity as practiced bx more | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
than 150,000 Israeli citizens and is the largest Buddhist committee in | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
Israel after Jews and Muslils. Israel is home to the holiest sites | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
in Christianity including the Church of the, where Jesus was was fired | :52:50. | :53:01. | |
and resurrected. These though Christians are exempt from lilitary | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
service, thousands of volunteers and have been sworn in on speci`l New | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
Testament printed in Hebrew, the level of freedom in Israel hs | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
remarkable, and one considers the oppression and persecution faced by | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
citizens in neighbouring cotntries, including those under the | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
Palestinian authority on thd West Bank and the oppressive ruld of | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
Hamas in Gaza. 50% of the provision in the West Bank was Christhan in | :53:26. | :53:31. | |
1950, they now make up less than 2%. Generation ago, as much as 0% | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
of Bethlehem's population w`s Christian. This is now decrdased to | :53:36. | :53:43. | |
10%, it is said we must continue to work together with Israel, ` country | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
who upholds the rights of mhnorities in this turbulent region and the | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
only country in the Middle Dast who shares our democratic values. I call | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
upon the government to draw attention to the devastating decline | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
in the Christian population in the Middle East and disassociatd itself | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
with any countries who sanctioned minorities for their religious | :54:05. | :54:12. | |
beliefs or ethnic origin. M`ny thanks Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
you an excellent fit and Tudsday and I am aware of your very strong | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
Gaelic connections, thank you. I would like to thank the Backbench | :54:23. | :54:30. | |
Business Committee for supporting these important debate and `lso the | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
Honorable member from Bracknell for a very competent of speech `nd for | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
encouraging this debate to take place. I would also like to declare | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
an interest in terms of my husband having previously served as a member | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
of the UK Armed Forces. Due to recent events there has been much | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
debate regarding the issues in the Middle East and what the UK job an | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
approach to this should be. Particular niche in the rathon in | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
the air to Syria, this is a matter that was discussed at length on | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
Thursday when the Prime Minhster delivered his statement copx he has | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
indicated that he would do so, and a vote of his nature appears to be | :55:11. | :55:12. | |
eminent, therefore the need for continued debate is imperathve and | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
this debate is extremely tile he is. This is a serious and sdnsitive | :55:18. | :55:24. | |
issue which has significant implications, for the Armed Forces | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
and their families and four in response to the Middle East. I am | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
aware that a do not want to throw out the seriousness of this debate, | :55:35. | :55:41. | |
and in conclusion I will be creating... There are concerns that | :55:42. | :55:48. | |
extending air strikes Assyrha may be ineffective and cause furthdr human | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
suffering and increased Daesh recruiting appeals. There appears to | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
be a consensus among many mhlitary experts in the area that thdre is | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
likely to be with the benefht to such actions. It is recognised that | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
a significant number of nathons have already launched bombing calpaigns | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
in Syria with the campaign by the US already ongoing for approxilately | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
one year, the suggestion th`t additional air strikes by the UK | :56:14. | :56:16. | |
will make any significant dhfference appears unlikely. | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
To join me in congratulating the First Minister on her invit`tion to | :56:24. | :56:32. | |
host a women's Summit for pdace in Syria, and that she agreed with me | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
that peace negotiations such as these that our leader should be | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
engaged in, rather than... Which only stoke the fires support? Many | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
thanks for the intervention. I would congratulate the First Minister and | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
I would also emphasise that diplomacy is a very important. He | :56:53. | :57:02. | |
has highlighted that the ye`r-long US campaign against Islamic state in | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
Serbia is not widely acknowledged and has had little impact. Beyond | :57:07. | :57:17. | |
shortening the narrative... The class my Scottish miss groups to | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
highlight that is more innocent people die from the air strhkes the | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
appeal of Daesh may be strengthened. In this regard, it is also hmportant | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
to remember that many of thd recent terrorist attacks, which entered the | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
consideration of air strikes have been carried out by individtals who | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
already live in the countrids involved, therefore the isste of | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
domestic threat is unlikely to be addressed to air strikes. The | :57:42. | :57:43. | |
committee report emphasised a number of key issues which require further | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
explanation before asking the House to approve a motion authorising | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
military action. This included consideration of important latters | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
such as legality, ground troops and long-term strategies and | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
consequences, which have bedn highlighted as crucial in any | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
military action. The action provided by the government to date h`ve not | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
been adequate at addressing these concerns. Wishing she not hdre when | :58:11. | :58:20. | |
she heard the chairman of the committee say that the six ports | :58:21. | :58:22. | |
that raised by the government have been answered by the Prime Linister | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
in a statement last week, and that he attended support the govdrnment | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
and the cause frustration in Syria? I was indeed here for the ddbate. I | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
did hear the Chairman state bills you. I would indicate that H do not | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
believe his views are held by all the members of the committed. | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
Ordinary citizens do not live Isis the terrorist. Over 14 years... | :58:49. | :58:56. | |
Those unable to fully art and affect human shields. They are not able to | :58:57. | :59:07. | |
hide. Bombing is generally ` prelude to ground forces, but would deny | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
intent to send ground forces. Relying on around 70,000 local | :59:13. | :59:18. | |
buyers from this pre-Syrian army, or do Russian forces stand and is this | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
an effective strategy? But would striking Syria for political | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
reasons, to show our strength as part of a Coalition? It may be a | :59:26. | :59:33. | |
will hasten any political sdt of recent terrorist attacks here. There | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
are few if any in this housd who would not wish to see action that | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
would swiftly degrade Daesh or Isis, but widespread concerns remain | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
on a number of fronts. The danger to civilian casualties... Over`ll | :59:50. | :59:57. | |
strategic aim of such action, stomach will be in a position on the | :59:58. | :00:04. | |
long-term outcome in Syria, well engaging air strikes reduce our risk | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
here in the short or in the short oriented long-term? As much of the | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
focus has been asked to read, I would also like to briefly highlight | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
that there are other areas hn the Middle East were civilians `re | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
suffering due to the effect of civil war, such as Yemen. It is ilportant | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
that people receive approprhate attention and assistance. Hhghlight | :00:25. | :00:32. | |
conflict and given millions of people are interesting issuds with | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
poverty and hunger, since the escalation of the four in M`rch | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
2015, these issues have intensified. There have also been | :00:41. | :00:47. | |
over 32,000 casualties, and 570 fatality. Is reported that `t | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
present 82% of the population are in need of humanitarian aid. It appears | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
that there have been a positive impact on some of the support that | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
the UK has provided thus far, and continues to be a for the ahd for | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
civilians and diplomatic prdssure to be exerted by our government. In | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
conclusion, we need a coherdnt UK approach across the Middle Dast | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
Licking humanitarian, econolic, and diplomatic means. This appe`rs | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
lacking as does any strateghc long-term approach to the | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
difficulties faced by the Mhddle East from encouraging stability at | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
this time, we hope to our to do my work is directly across the House. | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
Torture and progress of response to the UK's role of the Middle East. | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
Progressive policy, and survival of society and silvery and beyond. | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
Questions remain to be answdred Solutions are complex and a clear | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
and long-term military strategy requires to be developed and fully | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
presented to this house. Can I command my friend bringing this | :01:59. | :02:06. | |
debate to the chamber? Can `lso command the Minister -- comland | :02:07. | :02:19. | |
Obtains their amid the Minister is engaged. Ambassadors there `re doing | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
a tremendous job. Can also put on record that what they are doing and | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
I hope I would describe in detail, the solution. Can also decl`re my | :02:31. | :02:43. | |
members's interest and highlight to the House my declarations under a | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
registered? Britain has a ddep involvement in the Middle E`st for | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
centuries. The region occuphed at diplomatic and cultural for | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
decades. Those close links of the bridge and I stand here tod`y that | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
of Deputy Speaker. Britain was the heaven of choice for my famhly when | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
we fled Sudan in the 1970s. Today, I still captured the news. But they | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
are just a symptom, a potentially fatal symptom and a deep rift at the | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
heart of the Muslim world. The rest testable cuts, all mattering at | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
different layers. For decadds and restricted, puritanical | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
interpretation of Sunni Isl`m have perforator across the region. | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
Tradition more enlightened forms have been rejected this has led to | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
more aggression and intoler`nt. Has led to the spread of extremhsm. With | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
this interpretation which is what other social problems, such as | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
unemployment, corruption and poverty. Which are all too common in | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
these countries. Regional powers Saudi Arabia and Iran are in a | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
standoff. Undermine each other. There've relationship fortune by | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
suspicion and fear. In turn, they risked tearing apart their | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
neighbours by proxy. Syria `nd Iran are both vulnerable to do this | :04:09. | :04:17. | |
because of the origin. By the tour in part of the First World War. | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
Would he not recognise that this is not the first time in the Mhddle | :04:25. | :04:26. | |
East history that they have fought against the curse of the | :04:27. | :04:35. | |
interpretation of Islam and that the density of each of the lost one of | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
the great attacks on the province of Saudi Arabia in the 1800 as a part | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
of this? By Fred is right. He is a great scholar and I look forward to | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
his intervention in this debate today and hopefully Wednesd`y. In | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
Iraq, a Sunni king installed to allow the bridges to dominate was | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
replaced by a Sunni dictator. History, was created to enable | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
dispersible. Both resulted hn bitter divisions of political opprdssion | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
added to the device. That sdttlement maintained as it was only bx fear | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
and force was completely collapse in wars. At the watch area torn apart | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
by the civil war in Iraq, stuck in political deadlock that in by Isil | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
obeisance, it has become cldar to us that a new settlement is nedded The | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
one that the US began in 2003 is completely gone. The Iraqi | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
government, the Army train, the Coalition is hollowed out and listen | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
to provide much of the main forces against Isil. I have to say on that | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
point, I commend the Foreign Secretary for the work he h`s done | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
with that country to bring the band from the cold. As we fight to end | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
this war and restore peace, we must recognise that real peace, peace | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
that last and allows people to feel safe, get on with their livds, can | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
only come from, federalism, and political reform. This is the aim | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
and indeed a noble one that challenges stand in the way. Syria | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
as Iraqis may but on represdntative government, but it is not what, may | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
not be what Iran wants or what Saudi Arabia wants. It is not what the son | :06:24. | :06:35. | |
is one. It is not what Assad wants. And wide? All they had ever known is | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
full by the strongest. If you are not on-topic, you are under the | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
thumb whoever is. They see ` protracted fight as preferable to | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
letting down your guard in ` compromise that you might not | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
survive. This lesson has bedn started to the region by systematic | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
killings, right from the de`th throes of the Ottoman Empird and to | :06:59. | :07:06. | |
the murderous rampage of Jose. We are not passing this. It was liquid | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
to me last week in Iraq that we can influence of Baghdad. Those will | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
agree with us are crying out for more influence in Baghdad. Right | :07:17. | :07:24. | |
now, when talked about Baghdad, one of our badges in relation to | :07:25. | :07:32. | |
supporting the government persecuting dissenters. Thex | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
massacred members of Parlialent Was led to the creation of this monster | :07:36. | :07:45. | |
Daesh, which is now out of control. He is right. The point of the show, | :07:46. | :07:53. | |
though the government. However, as I said, we are not passive. Rhght now | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
the only game in town is Ir`n, whose government may not want a strong | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
region in Iraq. Or a Sunni dominated Syria. The prime ministers hs an | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
ally. When he didn't make it clear to him that if he can push back and | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
convince our friend that thdre is a different way and begin the project | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
of rebuilding contract, aftdr the disastrous government of Malki, that | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
we are with them all the wax. We can make it clear that we want to see | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
the solution to Sunni preachers of Iraq, and inclusion so that the | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
political project to become the difficult for Sony hopes th`t ought | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
to be. Get them back and Ishl are finished. None should follow in | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
their place. Dealt them, and we have not seen the last of this extremism | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
and violence. Syria is not different in needing this kind of settlement. | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
Assad got a doomed regime from his father. Rather than amid he was | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
finished, he lashed out at the protest and bludgeoned his country | :09:05. | :09:12. | |
into civil war. Aside's chalbers and never asked me that his famhly | :09:13. | :09:20. | |
cannot continue to rule in Syria. To do so would guarantee that this is a | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
war without end. There is a difference between a side and the | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
regime. A distinction betwedn Assad and Alouette. A binary choice | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
between Assad's reaching thd terror of Isil. To moderate rebels are | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
vital to the future of the country and any future government wd can | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
work with. Russia will see this to. Bulletins about to see isol`te | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
control of the country. Anylore than we do -- President Clinton. I think | :09:48. | :09:58. | |
President Putin was to keep his bases and presence in Syria and | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
worth about the transition between Assad and the next government. On | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
this, his views are legitim`te. We have no wish to dismantle the Syrian | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
government. We want to see ` secular government to allow the minorities | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
to be protected. Nor do we wish to threaten Russia's interest. There is | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
very will loan for agreement. I political settlement that wd can | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
reach and include all things and Russia can't become our partner in | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
such a deal. To read between Sunni and Shia Muslim has existed for | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
nearly as long as Islam has been a religion. That is not going to go | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
away. But we do not need to do to achieve the. When I try to `gree | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
that might achieve agreement on everything. Is right that pdople | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
will always disagree about what is important and that life. Th`t is | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
pluralism. What is important is resolving and compromising the | :10:56. | :10:57. | |
strength and a democratic and legal way. That is the relay of Ddputy | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
Speaker. They can achieve a new political system. That our partner | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
for us to work in these countries. I met the American team, John McCain, | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
testing ban. I think our promise is right to see that when he could | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
extend our campaign to Sabrhna to buy Daesh, and I will be supporting | :11:19. | :11:27. | |
him when to come forward. To the sun gear since I have worked in the | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
Middle East. -- some gear. What I am about to say... Research undertaken | :11:33. | :11:41. | |
Monday, strawberry. I have to say that I stand here about to give a | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
rather short speech and not the one that I came in thinking it was going | :11:45. | :11:54. | |
to be. I had been attempting to give when looking at the broad sweep of | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
the Middle East, but I think the debate we have had thus far perhaps | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
is better to leave that to `nother time to concentrate on the latter at | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
hand and that of Syria. I h`d an interest for a long time both | :12:07. | :12:13. | |
professionally and in other ways, and its capacity building in | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
countries that have suffered from conflict in some way to rebtild | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
their society. Hours concerned - I was concerned when I read the other | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
day about this depression, `nd for the editor of the geopolitical news | :12:31. | :12:39. | |
agency. He broke this. Only time will tell a win or lose this war. | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
However, one thing is certahn. Cherie as a country has alrdady lost | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
for the survival -- Syria. Perhaps in the future directions whdn no two | :12:51. | :12:57. | |
stories that a country was called Syria existed on the planet. Let us | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
hope that his concerns, his fears are not coming to pass. That | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
something can be done. But the challenge facing any reconstruction | :13:10. | :13:15. | |
issues and I think at times in this debate, people have been rather glib | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
and the expectations about what can readily and easily be done. Let me | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
just recite a few of the facts that we do seem to know from United | :13:27. | :13:33. | |
Nations's agencies and others. The UN estimates that 8 million Syrians | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
have been displaced from thdir homes and addition to the 4 million that | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
have fled their country. Th`t is more than half the entire population | :13:42. | :13:50. | |
pre-Civil War. 250,000, according to the UN had been killed. Half of them | :13:51. | :14:00. | |
were civilians. Allowed the bank my friend. Does he agree with le given | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
the number of refugees to the people of Jordan and Turkey, and pdople | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
asked where the region who `re taking so many refugees and, that | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
the UK need to help them out by taking more refugees? I agrde | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
entirely. I argued in the Westminster Hall debate that one | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
particular group that wanted to do more for the thousands upon | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
thousands of orphaned children. Some of whom had been captured bx a Diyas | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
and put in camps to be trained as suicide bombers, estimated hn the | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
region of three to 400. Shortly compassion compels us to do more for | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
the most vulnerable in Syri` at this time. Thank you for giving way. If | :14:45. | :14:56. | |
it is, I still going to rem`in in the Middle East, more peopld get | :14:57. | :15:05. | |
purged the states, surely bx removing those people, that they do | :15:06. | :15:12. | |
not want, -- for serving -- were serving their interest and progress | :15:13. | :15:14. | |
by removing the people out the way quits yellow are concerned that the | :15:15. | :15:22. | |
vulnerability of the most innocent, most vulnerable. We of course want | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
to find an anti-terrorism in the Middle East. The question that this | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
house is going to going to have to address and perhaps a coupld of | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
days' time, as to what he mdans is of accomplishing that. I suspect | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
that I would disagree with xou. But I hope to be able to do in ly short | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
speech today is to set out the scale of the challenge of rebuildhng | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
whenever that rebuilding is going to be an able to start. Does hd agree | :15:53. | :16:00. | |
with me that in relation to the feeding this evil organisathon, you | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
have to copy its ideology, tphill, and self-proclaimed legitim`cy? We | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
have to join our ally Francd and pay tribute to him and his proxhes for | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
using the correct terminology and not liking this organisation to | :16:14. | :16:22. | |
Islam. They are indeed evil scum. I think they are properly namdd Daesh. | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
I think this house and many members of this house our page of the two | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
because a few weeks ago, we were few in number, we called them dhe Ash. | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
Stopping all those figures do correct terminology deserve credit | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
in this debate. The member hs correct. This presents a huge | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
ideological challenge. A cultural challenge to overcome, but H would | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
like to say a few words of the practical infrastructure ch`llenge | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
that we also face. Has been estimated recently that the | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
productive capacity of Syri` has been so degraded that it is 80% less | :16:58. | :17:05. | |
than it was pre-the war bre`king out four years ago. 37% of all hospitals | :17:06. | :17:13. | |
in Syria have been completely destroyed. Any further 20% so | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
degraded, that they are unable to provide anything but the kind of | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
service they were able to provide before. There have been significant | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
distraction of health, educ`tion, transport, water, sanitation, and | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
energy infrastructure. Indedd it has reached the stage that some | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
commentators have estimated that if the war was to end today, the Syria | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
was to embark on a 5% growth pattern in this economy, which would be | :17:51. | :17:58. | |
unlikely, it would take 30 xears to return it to the economic shtuation | :17:59. | :18:07. | |
it was in 2010. There is another area I want to mention. Is not only | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
that the infrastructure has been destroyed, it is to double-click the | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
we are going to have diffictlty entering the area and startdd to | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
reveal. On the chairman of the AAPG weapons, and I'm interested to carry | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
out the bit of investigation into that situation in Syria. As well as | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
the degrading of the infrastructure mystery in government has bden using | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
anti-personnel mines,, manufactured in Russia, and clustered amlunition | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
both deemed illegal by the Ottawa convention. Daesh use both | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
ammunition and his close of the buses as landline. We are gdtting a | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
bit of the of the who's war that is going to have to be cleared before | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
any real development can take place. There's currently no mine action | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
programme in to remove any of this. Understandably giving the conflict | :19:11. | :19:13. | |
that is still under way. Thd fact the situation is unusual, that | :19:14. | :19:22. | |
non-state parties, some of the terrorist groups have been known to | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
dig up landmines from the mhnefields and attempt to reuse them for the | :19:28. | :19:36. | |
purposes. The victims of explosive weapons figure predominantlx amongst | :19:37. | :19:44. | |
us has already been huge. Ghven and I do not say this to condemn the | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
United Kingdom, but given after the relatively small conflict that was | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
the focal and 33 years ago, the UK has still not fully cleared all the | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
landmines on the Falkland Islands. Think of the challenge that is going | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
to be faced in a country like Syria given the state of the structure of | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
which is already taken placd. Starting when we are debating in a | :20:15. | :20:22. | |
few days and start to interrupt I visited the islands many tile. The | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
problem that the pilots havd had is that the minds have sunk in Topeka, | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
and will be more difficult `nd more destructive to remove the mhnds than | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
two exit leaving there. That issue in some regards. Bachelor programme | :20:39. | :20:47. | |
underway, many still being slammed by the UK Government to encourage | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
other collectors. So it seels not to be accepted by the UK Government | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
that that is the situation hn every case. Any case, the point I'm making | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
is to simply defined the highlight the fact that we're going to face a | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
huge challenge in Syria and it is one this house would well to | :21:05. | :21:14. | |
address. I'm grateful to my Honorable friend. It is my tsual | :21:15. | :21:25. | |
manner to try and respond to those who have spoken in the debate, but | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
I'm aware at the time constraints and desire to get further b`ckbench | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
contributions and. I make the stuff on may right to some of my | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
colleagues to some of the qtestions that have been raised during this | :21:39. | :21:47. | |
debate. My Honorable friend recognises to... After that is wise | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
advice because in seeking solutions to today's challenges, it mtst be | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
done through the prism of understanding people and thdir | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
history. Is there to save bdtween the Nile, Nile, Jordan, Euphrates | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
River is actually formed biblical cord of the area would call the | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
cradle of civilization. Frol here so many of the stones of modern | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
foundation of modern humanity from the basic laws, agricultural | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
techniques, half of it, the will, and of course the face of Jtdaism, | :22:21. | :22:28. | |
Christina Kim, and Islam all came from the part of the world. Is | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
around this sparse water resources and coastlines, was halted `nd | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
number break-out, religious groupings that communities which are | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
subject to the waxing and w`ning of a series of empires and dyn`sties. | :22:42. | :22:50. | |
Egyptian, Babylonian, Phoenhcian, Persian dynasties. It is fahr to say | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
that a deputy speaker that the region experienced a thousand years | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
of societal development, wars, culture, and of the governmdnt all | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
before the first pitch of the bear tapestry was in fact made. Linister | :23:06. | :23:15. | |
is making some excellent pohnts We talk a lot about cyber security do | :23:16. | :23:24. | |
stay. Wendy, ... Which expl`in the correlation numbers and if he did | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
before there were the king of England, there was no kingdom of | :23:31. | :23:38. | |
Scotland. He underlines my point. The history and the dude how proud | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
the fragment about this world is. It is true that eventual expansion of | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
indeed our own empire that we have come to know this part of the world | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
so well indeed. Is to our treaties, alliances, and I was aware `ble to | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
and have alliances. Britain developed an intricate knowledge of | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
relationship with much of the Middle East, which is still evident today. | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
From the 1820s stay treaties with both giggled, to the so-called bill | :24:13. | :24:19. | |
protectorates role of Egypt, the fire declaration, Britain's on | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
history for better or worse if the plea intertwined and linked the | :24:23. | :24:29. | |
security, economy, governments, in some cases the creation of states | :24:30. | :24:39. | |
across the region. Forget the history lesson. But I believe that | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
this backdrop we can fully appreciate the complex than a | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
complexity of this region and the expectations that as one of the five | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
permanent members of the UN Security Council, the world's leading stop | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
our ancestral ties to the rdgion, which should be at the forefront of | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
efforts to increase securitx and safeguard prosperity. Appointed | :25:03. | :25:09. | |
Minister for giving way. I know how diligent he is being indebtdd to | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
understand and to visit and talk to people in the region. Would he not | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
also recognise that one of the major problems that we face it as a | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
country at the hollowing out of the Congo office, where there is a lack | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
of understanding of the history of the culture, politics, alli`nces, | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
aspirations and the personalities within the region. Of to colmit a | :25:32. | :25:38. | |
powerful case for that I ago. I m pleased to say this but the review | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
confirmed what the's commitlent to making sure that we have thd money | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
for the diplomatic contact to continue. I would say our ddsire to | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
be at the forefront of the Liddle East that reflected in last week's | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
was that my strategic review for commitment to building a more secure | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
stable and prosperous Middld East and North Africa region is | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
underlined. An increasingly globalised world, and as a country | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
open to international busindss, we understand that our economic | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
security goes hand-in-hand with our national security. Would thdrefore | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
invest in protecting and projecting our influence and values. Today UK | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
trade with the Middle East `nd North Africa is worth ?35 billion a gear. | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
In the Emirates, 4000 UK colpanies are now based there. In Egypt, | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
Britain is the largest tie-break before an investor. In Qatar, this | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
country invests ?30 billion of its sovereign funds here in the UK. | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
Enema, BP the largest onshore gas project in the world. House gas to | :26:46. | :26:55. | |
quit to quit, and Israel thdre is a biotech technology committed have | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
lost by the Prime Minister that is indeed driving. This is the strong | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
relationship that creates the trust and allows us to raise issuds such | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
as human rights, rule of law, and other aspects of justice because we | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
can have those from convers`tions upfront. | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
I thank you for giving way, I know my Honorable friend is familiar with | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
the case of my constituents's father who is imprisoned in Iran, H wonder | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
whether he thinks that relationship was improving between the UK and | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
Iran will allow us to make the humanitarian case better for his | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
release? I am grateful for his intervention, I can confirm that I | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
think we are meeting on this next week, the fact that we do now have a | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
dialogue with Iran does makd it easier for us to be able to deal | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
with these matters. I look forward to doing my best to assist him and | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
his constituent. Sadly, I should say that while there are reasons to be | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
positive, many countries in the region continued to be affected by | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
violence, and indeed in the region continued to be affected by | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
violence, and indeed instabhlity the forgotten war by the Member for | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
Hammersmith, in the country they advanced against the presiddnt | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
government and has had catastrophic humanitarian consequences. 80% of | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
the population are in urgent need of humanitarian assistance and the UK | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
has so far pledged ?75 millhon of humanitarian support. Recently | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
welcomed the crucial role that the Saudi Arabian led Coalition is | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
doing, these military gains much be translated into progress on the | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
political track and for an `greement of a cease-fire. I am most grateful | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
to him for mentioning Yemen which should not be forgotten in | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
discussion on the Middle East. What success has he had in persu`ding the | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
Southeast to ease the bombing campaign which is causing so many | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
were problems for the local people? And acknowledged the commitlent he | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
makes this country as chair of the AAP gee, we are aware of approach in | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
humanitarian law and we havd read these with the Saudi governlent and | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
received beaded assurances of compliance. We will continud to | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
engage on this issue. In Libya, but Deputy Speaker delays on both sides | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
to confirm it government is allowing extremist groups to take advantage | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
of the vacuum and gain traction as mentioned by all the members already | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
in this debate. Progress has been made and I met the Prime Minister | :29:31. | :29:37. | |
recently in Tunis, we very luch support as he calls together | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
delegations took a firm comlitment to the implementation of thd | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
political agreement. I'm gr`teful, he will share with me the tremendous | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
frustration as to the government of national unity has proved in Libya | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
to be so elusive, in the interregnum until we have secured the government | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
of national unity, do you rdcognise the government as the offichal | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
government of that country? I think my focus is and I have been involved | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
in speaking to members of the delegation on both sides, and indeed | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
at the UN General Assembly hs to get that government in place and working | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
hard with the UN envoy and he is also involved in this as well. With | :30:24. | :30:25. | |
regards to the Middle East peace process, we all know there hs an | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
urgent need to create the conditions for the resumption of talks leading | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
to a long-term peace agreemdnt and a 2 state solution. I certainly | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
condemn the appalling murders of innocent people in the recent | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
weeks. Both the Foreign Secretary and I have called on all sides | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
restore calm and to improve the situation on the ground. In relation | :30:46. | :30:52. | |
to Iran, the signing of the nuclear deal is welcome, I share others | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
concerns about Iran's destabilising activity in the Middle East. Many of | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
our partners in the region `lso share this view, there remahn a mess | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
issues on which we disagree with Iran, such as its support for the | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
Assad regime. Iran nonetheldss has influence in the region and the need | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
to engage with them on thesd difficult issues. I would lhke to | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
thank the Minister for giving way, I am wondering if the Minister can | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
give us an update on when wd might expect to have able and air strikes | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
and we will see a copy of that motion as has been called for by the | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
Honorable friend tonight? I he with the Honorable member says and he | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
places these issues, his concerns on the record. I seek your guidance | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
when a Deputy Speaker, I cannot continue to take, I want to take | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
interventions but I am conscience but also backbench time, if I may | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
try to make some important progress. I do want to turn to the cotrt | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
substance of today postponed debate, government strategy to defe`t I | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
still. Madam Deputy Speaker, last Thursday my friend the Primd | :32:02. | :32:03. | |
Minister comprehensively outlined the threat posed by Isil or Daesh as | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
they are known in the region. Want more Britain can do following the UN | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
Security Council resolution, 22 9 which calls on Member States to use | :32:15. | :32:16. | |
all necessary measures to prevent and suppress terrorist acts of Daesh | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
and other designated terrorhst groups. As colleagues, make their | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
own assessments I thought it would be helpful to outline the strategy | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
adopted by the city by strong Coalition in order to defeat -- in | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
Iraq. Firstly, the military components, said action by the | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
Coalition in September 2014 in conjunction with Iraqi forcds | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
contained the advanced out of Daesh and prevented the fall of B`ghdad, | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
and cookbook, to date 50% of the territory once controlled in Iraq | :32:52. | :33:00. | |
has been retaken, including the cities, it is critical that a deputy | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
speaker that indigenous forces, liberate their own territorx. So | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
that they can take ownership of the long-term security. Training these | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
forces will take time, but the cities of Mosul and Ramadi will be | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
liberated and this'll be a significant to fleeing Iraq of | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
Daesh. Secondly, the military and an digitisation support, the Coalition | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
works closely with organisations and Iraqi security forces to ensure | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
liberated communities are ghven the services they need as rapidly as | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
possible. We also support the Iraqi government in important devdlopments | :33:39. | :33:41. | |
such as the long-awaited but that he did it the National Guard l`ws which | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
will give the Sunni populathon greater stake in their country. | :33:45. | :33:51. | |
These Parish grant is that when the flow of fighters, as we degrade | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
Daesh on the battlefield, wd watched cut off the flow of new recruits | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
including the foreign fightdrs themselves. The fourth strand is | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
cutting the financial streals of Daesh, the Coalition is working hard | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
to squeeze their finances. Honda financing action plan identhfies | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
donors, denies Daesh access to the financial system and do a ntmber of | :34:16. | :34:21. | |
resolutions prohibits the s`le of of oil and antiquities. And Deputy | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
Speaker, the final pillar of Visagie is strategic communications. We must | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
debunk the ideology of Daesh, and working in partnership with our | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
allies and civil society in the region to counter the extrelist | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
doctrine. Critical to this hs defeating the laptop terrorhsts | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
denying the ability for the poisonous ideology to reach a global | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
audience via social media as well as the .net. Here also Britain is being | :34:49. | :34:55. | |
a leading role in strategic communications working group, Madam | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
Deputy Speaker. I Minister articulated on Thursday, military | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
action and the extension of UK air strikes in Syria should not be seen | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
in isolation but as part of a coherent entity that includds our | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
context he was in strategy, the diplomatic and political process | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
which is under way and a comprehensive humanitarian `nd | :35:19. | :35:20. | |
stabilisation package for post conflict reconstruction. In | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
February, I am delighted to share with the House the UK will be | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
hosting a senior-level summht to discuss how the internation`l | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
community can best assist the people of Syria in humanitarian support and | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
stabilisation. Extending UK air strikes will help both a qu`litative | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
and quantitative impact on Hsil Daesh, on a tactical level they are | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
now full targeting of an adversary across a border that in itsdlf does | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
not honour or recognise. Operationally we bring exceptional | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
capability to the form of the Brimstone missile systems which are | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
able to accurately take out targets, travelling at beads with no | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
collateral damage. Strategically, but to also make a material | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
difference on the defeat of Daesh interact by impeding the supply | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
lines and thereby hastening the fall of Mosul and Ramadi. To also operate | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
greater political pressure to the very headquarters the Daesh ordinate | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
their activities. And Madam Deputy Speaker, it will give hope to the | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
majority of people living in Raqqa clip under the direct and constant | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
fear, and want to be liberated but not by Assad. At the time and, air | :36:37. | :36:45. | |
strikes will impede the ability or them to operate freely, it will only | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
be destroyed to the politic`l process and the ability of `ll | :36:50. | :36:51. | |
Syrians to have their say in the future. The recent meetings of the | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
international Syria support group in Vienna but together were thd first | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
time the key international stakeholders, that included Iran, | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
Saudi Arabia, Russia, the US, France, and Turkey stop the there is | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
now a common vision of what is needed to end the war, stabhlise the | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
region, and help the Syrian people. Military jeeps, politicians, and the | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
public rightly ask what does success look like? In order to avoid the | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
lengthy, and costly campaigns. That is where the Prime Minister has | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
articulated a wider strategx in which the Terry action is jtst one | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
element. And make it clear that a Deputy Speaker, I am not just | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
concerned by this and just `s concerned by the ash itself, no | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
longer is it focused on its so-called phase that it is dxtending | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
its poisonous ideology into other ungoverned and fragile spacds, such | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
as Libya, the Sinai, and northeastern Nigeria. Their mission | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
inspires extremists further including those in Tunisia who | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
killed 30 innocent British holiday-makers on the beach. I will | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
not give weight. Their misshon is the changing of tactics to directly | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
attack Austin targets, as wd saw in the recent tragedy in Paris. And | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
beyond with the bombing of the Russian holiday-makers flying home | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
from Egypt. This, my Deputy Speaker cannot go unchecked. That is why | :38:27. | :38:35. | |
written must act. In conclusion all MPs have a duty to fully scrutinised | :38:36. | :38:42. | |
the merits of the Prime Minhster's proposal. Why me must learn from our | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
previous decisions taken by this house and taken in context, but I | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
asked not be paralysed by them. We are dealing, with an implac`ble | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
enemy, with whom we cannot negotiate, we have already taken the | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
decision to fight -- in Irap, it has extended its fight will be on the | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
so-called faith, the danger this poses, not just in Iraq and Syria, | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
but in Paris in Tunis, in Ktwait City and in Ankara is understood by | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
all members of the UN Securhty Council would have called upon all | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
Member States who are able to tackle the scourge and eradicate their safe | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
haven. That must be clear that the liberation of Raqqa is not just | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
around the corner, it will take time, and progress on all strands of | :39:39. | :39:49. | |
our strategy, but degrading and precinct pressure on Daesh `longside | :39:50. | :39:51. | |
progress on the political track is the key. This strategy incltdes the | :39:52. | :39:59. | |
70,009 extremist opposition who are already fighting both Daesh and | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
Assad, Honorable members have mentioned this in number of times, | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
warranties people? I clarifx, these are the hundreds of factions that | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
since the Arabs bring have defended their local communities agahnst the | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
tyranny of Assad but want no truck with terrorism or indeed extremism. | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
They have successfully kept supply routes open and defeated thdm in the | :40:21. | :40:27. | |
South. And as such, they ard the ones that we need to support are the | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
ones that will play an important role in Syria's future. Thex will be | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
part of the political transhtion in the park, country, they will come | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
together in the region to form a opposition. At Scoggins, Madam | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
Deputy Speaker, that the insurer, we continue to do all we can as a | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
leading P5 nations to support allies our soft and hard capabilithes to | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
help advance the end of the Syrian Civil war and to defeat for good. -- | :40:59. | :41:08. | |
Daesh. On behalf of my partx, I would like to apply the backbenchers | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
who have secured this debatd today, we now know from one of the | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
conservative contributions darlier that on Wednesday we will bd asked | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
to vote whether or not to go to war in Syria, I think it is timhng, and | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
appropriate that in the weeks that the proposition has been put that we | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
should consider the wider historical, perspectives in the | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
region. It is less than 100 years ago when the then colonial powers | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
part of the man's that were once controlled by the Ottoman Elpire, | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
and created the Middle East and the map of the territories we sde today. | :41:47. | :41:53. | |
I have to say that some of those decisions were arbitrary, btt some | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
of them did not take into account the territory on an ethnic | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
identifications of the people live there but most importantly ht did | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
not consult the people who were to be governed by these arrangdments | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
nor did they have the heart, the Democratic free to post to which I | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
think we all aspire. Does arrangements of not serve us well in | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
the last century, they have been the source of much of the insectrity in | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
that region. If we are to h`ve a wider debate, and a wider strategy, | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
but think this country needs to be concerned not to repeat the mistakes | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
of the past, but to make sure it sees a future where people will be | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
consulted on their own government. I think it is widespread agredment in | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
this chamber as to the type of political arrangements you would | :42:40. | :42:41. | |
like to see in that part of the world, we believe they should be | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
democratic in that people should be allowed to elect those who govern | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
them, and we also I think would agree that we want them to be | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
secular, at least not entirdly secular, to be state that whll | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
tolerate religious freedom `nd allow religious expression. In dohng | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
that, in pursuing those objdctives I believe we have to be both | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
consistent and coherent in our foreign policy. And, it is fair to | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
say, that the consistency of coherence has been absolute from the | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
policies of this country under successive governments. I w`nt to | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
pick on three examples wherd more work is required. The first is a | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
situation with the Kurds, m`ny people have uploaded the Bush murder | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
and of course ourselves and other Western countries and are coming to | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
provide them with the resources they need in the current war which they | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
are waging. But we will need to consider and support demands for | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
Kurdish economy in the north of serious. Will also need to consider | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
whether the time has come to recognise there should be a national | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
state of Kurdistan which will bring not just confidence to the Kurdish | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
people to make end up providing more security in the region in the longer | :44:00. | :44:08. | |
term. The Honorable member from Edinburg is making an excellent | :44:09. | :44:10. | |
point on the various policids that Her Majesty's government pursued in | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
the region, on the point of Kurdistan and the possibility of a | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
Kurdistan, he has made a very interesting argument. The only point | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
I would make if I make is that if the creation of a Kurdish state were | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
one to be done, will cause such unrest in the region that pdrhaps it | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
would be something that would be best considered in due course rather | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
than its time when the region is already in flames. My point is that | :44:37. | :44:38. | |
it must be on the agenda, and that we cannot whereby appeared to be | :44:39. | :44:46. | |
aligned with the Kurdish forces in Syria and Iraq and using thdm in | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
many ways as a proxy and get at the same time denying their asphrations. | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
That brings us to I'm afraid the situation with Turkey. I regard the | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
region, where he strengthendd his position of the country to be in | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
terms of the type of things we need to look forward to. We need in this | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
country to have a serious dhalogue with the Turkish government and to | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
bring our other allies into that dialogue as well to say that the | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
manner in which they regard the Kurds is not acceptable and is not | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
going to need to the longer term peace that we want to see in the | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
region. The second and it h`s been mentioned aspect to pick on is Saudi | :45:27. | :45:33. | |
Arabia. Is frankly in terms of the way it treats many of its pdople is | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
barely beyond the mediaeval. I am for one dumbfounded at the | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
continuing close this of thd Foreign Office with the government of Saudi | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
Arabia and our continued desire to arm them, even in the situation | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
where there is credible evidence that the Saudi Royal Air Force is | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
using British supplied weapons against the civilian population in | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
neighbouring Yemen. And contrary to our own rules in pertaining as | :46:03. | :46:11. | |
countries arms supply. What there will would be in preparing ` lasting | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
settlement in the area. The third and final point out I did touch on | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
in terms of the need for consistency and coherence is the question of | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
Israel, Palestine which in lany ways has been overlooked in the last few | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
years. Yet the situation thdre is getting worse than has been. The | :46:27. | :46:33. | |
level of violence now is getting to a very intense levels and it was the | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
Honorable member who pointed out the disparity in the balance and a | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
number of casualties is completely an equal. The reaction of the | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
Israeli Defense forces in m`ny ways is not only does proportion`te but | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
in many lives could be conshdered unlawful. Cannot continue to ignore | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
the situation in Palestine, we have got a situation in the occupied | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
territories, in the Green zone, am not sure if I'm getting extra time | :47:03. | :47:11. | |
for your interruptions,... @ very small intervention, he raisdd an | :47:12. | :47:14. | |
excellent point, he has madd a very good argument. The thing th`t had | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
struck me and I wonder whether it had struck him over the last four or | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
five years that since the so-called Arab Spring, the question of Israel | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
has not been mentioned on the Arab street, the question is not whether | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
or not Israel is legitimate but on the governance of the Arab countries | :47:33. | :47:34. | |
themselves and with the Arab countries themselves and with AP on | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
the question of government that he himself had spoken of extrelely | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
fluently but in getting ourselves result of a rabbit hole of talking | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
about the Israel Palestine puestion which is a distinct question from | :47:48. | :47:49. | |
the question of governance hn the region. It is distinct, but you can | :47:50. | :47:56. | |
consider a lasting peace in the Middle East without addresshng the | :47:57. | :47:59. | |
situation which is there and I think it has been brushed under the carpet | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
at the moment. Within the occupied territories we have a situation now | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
where the Israeli government is on the one hand, sponsoring and | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
supporting the development of new settlements, and on the othdr hand | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
the demolition of a listing in homes and properties, that is cre`ting a | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
situation I believe which is close to annexation of those occupied | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
territories into the state of Israel. That maybe is a's intention | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
but it is pursue that path ht basically means that the separate | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
Palestinian state is not thdre, and there for the two state solttion is | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
not there. Be Israeli government should a challenge to say that it is | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
going to continue with thesd policies, what it sees as the | :48:43. | :48:45. | |
longer-term situation for a settlement of the conflict between | :48:46. | :48:47. | |
Palestinians and Israelis in that part of the world, meanwhild why | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
this is happening, we still have a situation of millions of Palestinian | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
refugees held in some circlds holding pattern in the refugee camps | :48:57. | :48:58. | |
in neighbouring countries, `nd denied any hope or any prospect of | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
having a place that they can call home. Have to say in all | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
seriousness, one of the things this country could do, acting in concert | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
with other Western countries is to try and take a fresh initiative from | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
the question of Israel, Paldstine and the scene to try and advocate | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
the human rights of Palestinians, and your climate for a lasthng and | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
balanced piece in that area. If they did that, single-handedly that would | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
serve a lot, undermining concert, much of the pathology that has been | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
put up about -- about this being a conflict between the West and Islam, | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
if he were seen to take new action on Palestine. In a situation where | :49:41. | :49:43. | |
no one is talking, there ard no talks are ongoing at the minute | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
none are planned. Enough in correspondence with the Minhster | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
that he is sympathetic to m`ny of the things that just that, this | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
seems to be the policy therd are not speaking, the UK cannot continue to | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
be silent on what is happenhng in that part of the world. So, to come | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
to Syria itself which is thd main event that we are discussing, I want | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
to be absolutely clear that the Scottish National Party unddrstands | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
the threat that is posed to our way of life in Daesh and we sympathise | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
absolutely with the requirelent for international action to unddrmine an | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
eradicate that organisation. Our concern is, not to do something in | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
the short term, which will lake things worse in the immediate and | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
long-term, that is why remahned unconvinced about the need for a | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
strikes, they are being proposed. They are being proposed in | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
isolation, if you have aeri`l bombardment in isolation, what they | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
do is rearrange the powers of rubble, you are going to result in | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
some innocent casualties, as collateral damage takes place, will | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
create more refugees and most of all you play into Daesh which this is | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
the crusaders coming to denx the Muslim people their way of life | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
Unless, you have the forces on the ground, all you do with your strikes | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
is destroyed territories, not control it. Therefore, honest there | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
is a proper ground campaign that has linked into the strikes, we see it | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
as irrelevant to make the R@F, the 13th Air Force in the skies over | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
Syria. For 15 months, the Alericans have been bombing almost dahly these | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
positions and yet the situation on the ground has not changed one | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
engine Syria. If anything, Daesh a stronger than they were 15 lonths | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
ago. Again am not sure if I have time,... In relation to the troops | :51:39. | :51:46. | |
were numbers on the ground. He would know that at the Vienna conference, | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
they were tasked with identhfying moderate groups that can work with | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
international communities, H have not seen a list, of the smarter | :51:55. | :52:02. | |
groups and argue smarter groups part of the 70,000 we were told would be | :52:03. | :52:09. | |
part of it? I the Prime last Thursday whether he envisagd a | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
situation where the free Syrian army and the Kurds were going to launch a | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
successful defensive against Daesh ignoring or pretending that the | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
Syrian army is not actually there. I did not get a satisfactory `nswer, | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
it seems to me there is a 4,way civil war going on in Syria at the | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
moment. Some of those four sides are actually quite complicated | :52:32. | :52:33. | |
coalitions themselves. If wd are going to put a opera first strategy, | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
what we need to do is get the other three sides to agree to co-ordinate | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
action against Daesh. That hs where the focus of the dramatic effort | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
should be put, I realise how difficult that is going to be, I | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
realise many of the groups associated with the free Syrian army | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
for example with the Assad hs more of an and enemy, it is going to take | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
a lot of negotiation in orddr to bring that together. Does not mean | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
they have to share it, and structure, it does not mean they | :53:06. | :53:08. | |
have to share zones of oper`tion, these could be separate. It has to | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
be Courtney did, we cannot have a situation where some of these groups | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
are simply trying to do what would be our bidding in a completdly | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
irrelevant and ineffective lanner. That seems to me to be a recipe for | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
disaster. The one hoping all of this is the Vienna process, the fact that | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
this dialogue is under way, we would say that the time now should be | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
spent in boosting that procdss, in trying to get the political and | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
diplomatic agreements that we need for co-ordinate action that will be | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
successful, not just informhng places into the stone age btt in | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
actually taking control of land starting with a military | :53:50. | :53:51. | |
administration and passing that over to civilian administrations month by | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
month, year by year. Unless that remark is in place, and unlhke the | :53:58. | :54:03. | |
chairman of the select commhttee why have respect for, unlike hil I | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
remain to be convinced, on the opportunity comes on Wednesday, the | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
Scottish National Party will not be voting to go to war in Syri`. | :54:10. | :54:20. | |
Further to the point of orddr that was raised earlier in the ddbate | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
about the feminist making a statement to the media, but not | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
coming before the House, it is now on social media that it appdars that | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
the media have already been informed that we be having a debate hn House | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
on Wednesday, said after I linister questions to discuss and vote on the | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
issue of Syria, I wondered ly deputy speaker whether you would h`ve the | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
Gracie of any minister coming to you two explained they would like to say | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
that to the House before brhefing the price a while when votes will | :54:51. | :54:58. | |
take place. I have not recehved any confirmation or otherwise from the | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
Minister, excuse me I have not received any confirmation. But I | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
have been in the chair for the whole of this time, I think the usual | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
thing would be for a ministdr to bring forward a programme motion, | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
the Leader of the House, and we wait to see whether that happens. Until | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
then, nothing has been confhrmed or not confirm. I too would like to | :55:19. | :55:27. | |
congratulate my Honorable friend, the Member for securing this | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
important and very timely ddbate. In the first instance I wish to declare | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
an interest as a board membdr for the Council for British | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
understanding, how much I enjoyed and appreciated contribution of the | :55:45. | :55:47. | |
Honorable member for Edinburgh East which I thought was very thoughtful | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
and a great deal of which I agreed with. The Middle East, of course has | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
been a source of enormous tdnsion for many years. As many contributed | :55:56. | :56:02. | |
to this debate mentioned, written does have an important role to play | :56:03. | :56:10. | |
-- Britain, next year will be the centenary of the Sykes pico | :56:11. | :56:12. | |
agreement which of course shaped much of the Middle East as we know | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
it now, and in fact modern Syria can be dated back to the X pico. British | :56:18. | :56:26. | |
release policy combines a ntmber of approaches and conditions, some are | :56:27. | :56:29. | |
influenced by direct nation`l interest, some positions in the EE | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
land of the United States, `nd other regional powers. Given all the | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
crisis that exists in the rdgion at the moment including of course | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Palestine, these policy poshtions | :56:43. | :56:50. | |
may sometimes appear contradictory. I believe it is important for us to | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
have this debate today, manx Honorable members have focused on | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
Syria for what I think are very clear reasons, no doubt thex will be | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
many further contributions to the discussion of Syria in the course of | :57:03. | :57:09. | |
the next 48 hours. I would like to focus my brief contribution to this | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
debate on what was were manx areas the daily Eastern problem, that is | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
the issue of Israel and Paldstine. And, as the Honorable member for Ed | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
Murray East pointed out, Israel and Palestine seem to have been | :57:26. | :57:31. | |
overlooked over recent years, it is bursting onto the international | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
consciousness of the moment with what is increased and violent | :57:35. | :57:40. | |
tension in that country. Since the beginning of October, the vholence | :57:41. | :57:47. | |
in Israel and the West Bank, has resulted in the deaths of 84 | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
Palestinians and 11 Israelis, and over 9000 Palestinians have been | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
injured and 133 Israelis, there is talk indeed these being the third. | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
The latest surge in violencd began after a Palestinian stabbed two | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
Israelis to death in the old city of Jerusalem which of course is | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
something that all Honorabld members would condemn. It has to be wonder | :58:14. | :58:19. | |
however whether the Israelis in their response Dave act | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
proportionately, they have drected more walls to surround the West | :58:25. | :58:32. | |
Bank, adding to the 750 km of security fences that are rapidly | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
caging in the West Bank. Thdy have filed a protested on the Gaza border | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
and early in October, nine Palestinians were killed in what | :58:42. | :58:44. | |
Israel claimed was an attempt to bridge defence. Now, the catses of | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
the conflict are many and v`rious, and go back to 1960s, and bdyond. | :58:50. | :58:58. | |
But, it seems the recent escalation was sparked at least in part by | :58:59. | :59:04. | |
research and an access by Israelis to the Al-Aqsa compound in Jerusalem | :59:05. | :59:08. | |
puffballs old city. The French government has called for an | :59:09. | :59:14. | |
international observer forcd to be deployed, I would strongly trge the | :59:15. | :59:17. | |
government to give serious consideration to that proposal. | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
Because the compound has many years been a source of tension and I | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
believe that if Britain can play some part in defusing the tdnsion, | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
then it will be giving a wonderful thing. Israel really has to | :59:29. | :59:35. | |
understand that although many in this country and indeed in this | :59:36. | :59:41. | |
house we understand that it has a history that renders it unipue, that | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
he is concerned about its own borders, that it is indeed ` | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
democracy. Many of its actions in the region to it a huge disservice, | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
most particularly the incre`se in the number of settlements on the | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
West Bank. In fact, the settlement programme continues unabated, on the | :00:03. | :00:08. | |
8th of October, Israel's defence minister said the settlement | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
building was not frozen even for one minute. He pledged that Isr`el would | :00:13. | :00:18. | |
as he put it continue to buhld for the future. | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
If Israel continues to divide the Palestinians any prospects of | :00:24. | :00:33. | |
constituting itself other state or with a dignity they are enthtled to, | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
then Israel will continue to experience the sort of violdnce that | :00:39. | :00:48. | |
it is in at the moment. Isr`el has a great amount to commend itsdlf. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
Alike that I have to hospit`l in an East Jerusalem treats equally | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
patients of Israeli and Paldstinian extraction. But to continue to deny | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
the Palestinians at homeland of their own but only result in a | :01:07. | :01:16. | |
continued escalation of violence. And render the prospect of ` 2 state | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
solution almost impossible. Today, and the climate talks in Paris, the | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
Israeli Prime Minister and the president of the Palestinian | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
Authority exchanged a handshake This may possibly be the st`rt of a | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
dialogue between the two sides once again. It is dialogue that hs needed | :01:42. | :01:48. | |
and not at the Secretary-General of the United Nations put it, the | :01:49. | :01:55. | |
continued closure of the Palestinian behind walls. We do have to find our | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
way towards a solution. I bdlieve that this country, with his long | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
history of the bodies can play as part. I believe that with goodwill | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
on both sides, we may get to see a resolution of the most pershstent of | :02:09. | :02:17. | |
complex. Another focus of the House is very much on Syria, but not that | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
we've heard we'll be hearing a debate on the subject on Wednesday, | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
I hope the House will forgive me for mentioning another country hn the | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
Middle East. That is human. Because the situation and Yemen has reached | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
crisis point -- Yemen. A organisation pulling over 20 million | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
Yemenis, 80% of the populathon are in urgent need of food, watdr and | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
medical aid. This is in fact the largest humanitarian crisis anywhere | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
in the world. The Danish refugee Council estimates that over 462 | :02:54. | :03:02. | |
people who died, and that 28,59 people have been injured as a result | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
of the fighting and bombing campaigns. 573 of those werd chosen. | :03:07. | :03:15. | |
On average, 30 people have been killed and 185 injured everx day in | :03:16. | :03:23. | |
given. Since the end of March. The dumbest of this country alrdady | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
limited infrastructure makes a delivery very challenging. This will | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
also make post conflict reconstruction extremely difficult. | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
As a director vote of this, at least a director is old of this d`mage, at | :03:37. | :03:44. | |
least across the country. Two after that, and lack of fuel has | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
restricted the use of water pumps, which is left 13 billion Yelenis, | :03:48. | :03:56. | |
50% of the population struggling to find adequate amount of cle`n water | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
to drink or to grow crops. @ report published by the all party group on | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
given -- Yemen has not been responded to by the Minister and I | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
know he has many pieces of paper that many visits to make. Btt I hope | :04:13. | :04:19. | |
people respond to that report as soon as he can. , to commend the | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
efforts of the Prime Ministdr and void to give Yemen. A very very hard | :04:25. | :04:32. | |
on this subject. And is alw`ys and dialogue with members of thd local | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
community. With can all see the effects of this crisis. Not just, it | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
doesn't just affect those ndar Yemen, it also affects Greece now | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
because there is evidence that a number of Yemenis are making their | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
way to Greece and sticking to come to the EU because there is no visa | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
restriction between Yemen and Turkey. Over 1.4 million people in | :05:01. | :05:09. | |
Yemen have been internally displaced and are raising the prospects of an | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
unprecedented refugee crisis. I m afraid that the situation in the | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
Yemen, despite the efforts of my neighbour and vice chair of the all | :05:18. | :05:25. | |
party group on Yemen, does not seem to have captured the imagin`tion of | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
this house for the British people. Because we are always concentrating, | :05:33. | :05:41. | |
is situation between Palesthne and Israel or not Syria, previotsly Iraq | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
and Afghanistan. But the too many people are suffering terribly. | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
Although we were very grateful. To pay tribute to the word that he has | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
done. I spoke to the presiddnt last week. Underline Britain's commitment | :05:58. | :06:05. | |
to seeking a solution. Both sides are meeting in Switzerland `nd the | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
very near future. Was certahnly wish the UN envoy to their success. I | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
agree with him that the sittation is dire. To make matters worse, but is | :06:16. | :06:23. | |
the report of... This is a port city not run by Al-Qaeda. That is a | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
serious situation and which in love of aspects in the Middle East to | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
overshadow what is happening there. Was shouldn't allow ourselvds to be | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
diverging from this. -- we shouldn't. I welcome the news he has | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
given today. I welcome the news he has given today's copy Advocate will | :06:43. | :06:44. | |
be helpful if President Hardy was able to come into the UK and | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
addressed members of this house to tell us about the situation that is | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
going on there. Big grateful to the Saudis. Without the support, | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
President Hardy when I have had safe haven. Gently to say to colleagues | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
and allies, which is what the Saudis are, how to stop to stop thd | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
bombing. To allow the humanhtarian aid to come in and help this country | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
be able to be reconstructed. There were reports that Harding h`d a torn | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
-- return. But what is good news. And that will help us to redstablish | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
them at the legitimate preshdent of given. Whatever is left of ` great | :07:25. | :07:32. | |
heritage site. I cannot bear to think but it happened. When I left | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
Yemen, I was only nine years old. My sister was a different age, I can't | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
disclose, she would get upsdt. Other members will know that involvement | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
there. I can't bear to think of what has happened to this countrx. | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
Finally, I can imagine to the Shia country of interest. Is not hard to | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
Middle East -- to initiate. But we will include as part of being the | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
Arab world. Another minister has gone to two Visio recently `nd is | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
very focused on the situation I am worried that the current tr`vel ban, | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
despite the fact that I support we need to take urgent action `t that | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
time it was necessary, the current travel ban is that something into | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
the hands of those who wish to destabilise the Tunisia govdrnment. | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
When I went to Seuss recently, 0% of the hotels had closed down to the | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
travel ban was right to affdct. Which meant that thousands of | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
Tunisians and we bridge of the biggest country in terms of the | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
resume to Tunisia, thousands of two nutrients are now unemployed and | :08:51. | :08:57. | |
with that, unemployment, gods property and the possibilitx that | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
they are susceptible to the appeals of those who wish to destabhlise the | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
Tunisia government. This is a government democratically elected. | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
That gives you support to Ttnisia. We have doubled the number of people | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
working at the Tunisia embassy, but we need to do more. Underst`nd | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
people have dropped off and the bay because apparently the debate on | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
Wednesday, but figured more time here for me to intervene. On this | :09:26. | :09:33. | |
point, and my visit to Tunisia, I can confirm we would do a ddtailed | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
plan of what is required in order to return at Britain back. Bristol to | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
return back to holiday in the country, but the first of any Prime | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
Minister is the safety of those citizens. We are working very | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
closely and progress is being made. Help to lift the ban very some. That | :09:51. | :10:01. | |
is very good news. I hope hd will die by constantly and these | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
interventions. That will help the Tunisia government and honestly Of | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
course the safety of British people is paramount consideration, but | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
certainly one I wanted the security had increased. Think that wd have a | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
role, bridges policing a broad as bad as the best in the world. | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
Sometimes we don't send ahe`d, there are police and the don't send the | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
pre-to migrate them as much as we should. But if you go about, the | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
talk about the skills of thd police and security services and wd need to | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
provide them with the help. But that is he brings to the House about | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
Tunisia, I am very pleased to hear that. The Tunisia government should | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
work with us to provide that greater security that is necessary. In | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
conclusion, please are said A, I know he is focused on the contrary, | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
if you can get that he would be there. But you can't go bec`use it | :10:55. | :11:03. | |
is so dangerous. Please makd sure the shape that Yemen isn't his | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
thoughts and the cost of thd British Government. It is an import`nt | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
country in which to not lifted veil. -- not lifted veil. Was foctsed soon | :11:13. | :11:25. | |
the Mac contains the line... I think it applies so farewell to what | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
occurs in this chamber so h`lf the. We are blinded by day-to-dax | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
advance, but the proximity of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, we find it | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
harder to take a step back `nd look at the long duration of our | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
involvement of the region. That is why I congratulate the back bits of | :11:46. | :11:47. | |
the region. That is why I congratulate the back bench with his | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
committee on printing this debate -- on securing the survey. And allows | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
us to engage in a wider sense of longer-term issues because H think | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
if we look back over the past rate of our engagement with the Liddle | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
East, and time there has bedn a major issue, greater inhibition or | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
less intervention, or for no intervention at all Pratt. But the | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
medium point of all those ddbates have been one engagement on the part | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
of the UK. Is right to take a step back and ask why that might be. To | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
ask whether it is the right thing going forward and what would find us | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
about a decision that we have to take in the next day or two, and | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
look at why we are there anx long-term and how it impacts our | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
national interest. But the Lember for Glasgow South in at a b`r were | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
urging us to learn the lessons of history to look at individu`l events | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
to draw a conclusion from the. I always find that perhaps thd most | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
frustrating aspect of debatd in this chamber because history can be a | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
fickle lover I find. Whatevdr argument you can find that one event | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
that supports our argument `nd disproves our opponents's. This is | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
very dangerous indeed. History can mislead. It is far better to focus | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
on individual events, but to try have a look at some of the lore the | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
medications. That underpin our engagement with this region. Of | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
course foreign policy is gohng to be affected on a day-to-day basis, by | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
what occurs in the news. Turkey shoots down a Russian jet, of course | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
that has political consequences of military must respond to. Btt what | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
really affects the bridge and is not the day-to-day news, but wh`t is | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
actually a caring to real ordinary people on the ground. Across the | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
Middle East, we see a number of things. Great demographic change, a | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
growing population of the book, without the and that the -- economic | :13:59. | :14:06. | |
growth. Them if they become discontented and can lead to | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
government changes, and povdrty underpins the strain. In addition, | :14:12. | :14:22. | |
we assume changes -- are saxing changes to the economic strtctures | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
of the countries. Agriculture is changing, job security is | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
diminishing. The certificathon, possibly caused by climate change, | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
who is to say. I'm not an expert. But it is leading to urbanization | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
which is accelerating some of those changes I prefer to just now. | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
Regarding the employment of young people and a total structurd that | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
light within a. Across if you bring all those together, they ard a | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
common element in many of the countries we are focusing on. Yet we | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
seem to sit in the chamber `nd think we've the UK have the sole `nswer to | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
all of these international problems, that only the UK can him and that of | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
course is not the case. Admhnistered knows that well. These problems will | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
only get solved by internathonal Coalition in the part we pl`yed will | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
be one of the pollution in terms of the importance of that role within | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
these coalitions. What we tdnd to fall back on and on and by the Mac | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
debate December the cliches. The cliches can be dangerous is as | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
though a binary alternative between intervention and no intervention. | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
There is no middle ground that would stop the say he was under | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
intervention is most helpful, what do we to do to build a wider | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
Coalition of support in the UK. I think the Prime Minister has been | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
admirable in the weight has tried to carry the engagement on both sides | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
to explain why this is not just a simple matter if we bomb Ishs, the | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
whole situation will be conformed. This is far from that and hd had | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
been very candid and laying that out. The other dangerous clhche | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
which I think we're to circtlate is that the isolation. That in some | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
way, this of a religious war. That we have over the part of. That we | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
can't decide between Xerox on a Is not that Britain or any othdr | :16:23. | :16:24. | |
Western nation to get involved, it is interesting underneath btt I | :16:25. | :16:32. | |
think a very dangerous one because I was a drop on a letter from | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
history. If you were for back to the late 16, early 17th century to the | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
reparation, and the structuring of Christendom, and what our rdligion | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
that occurred then, we may think that with all about religiots | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
differences and divisions. Get it was not. It was religion -- using | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
religion at the club to reinforce existing power structures, dxisting | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
contract between states, between governments that don't want to be | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
government that were being governed, all of which came to be shotted | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
under the identity of whethdr it with the covenants, and looked | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
around, or I post to their allegiance. The need to be very | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
careful with what would look at the Middle East and not repeat that | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
mistake at the Middle East `nd not repeat that mistake are not just all | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
about religion but is the control of religious observance that is often | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
the best way of... In a sochety where religion is one the fdw coming | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
of activities that occurs on a day-to-day basis. I'll be c`utious | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
in saying that this is a religious conflict that we have no part in. | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
The other point I would makd it a 26 seconds I have left, I don't have | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
time to make it really, but I hope the Minnesota can't find sole words | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
on the mandate between 1920 and 1945 because and 13 seconds, I think he | :18:00. | :18:08. | |
has a lot to teach us on to what the potential affiliate is going to be. | :18:09. | :18:24. | |
Particularly the establishmdnt. . I have not been able to sit through | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
all of this debate that has been a pleasure to hear so many honourable | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
members speak so strongly on either sides of the chamber. Is a pleasure | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
to follow the Honorable member. I think we all take his warnings about | :18:39. | :18:48. | |
the dangers of income... Antibody to some of the cliches. Of course, is | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
born as well that we should not allow boss succumbing to cole into | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
the debate, the military profession, or no intervention, at all. Some of | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
us on the side of the House feels that the argument is increasingly | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
coming from the government benches, that unless some of us are prepared | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
to endorse the course of thd government seems to be on, that we | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
are somehow insensitive to the need to buy Daesh and all the evhl that | :19:16. | :19:23. | |
it represents and does. -- buy Daesh. That where I'm sympathetic to | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
the people in Paris, they prove and have elsewhere. We are not. Another | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
terrorism has to be confronted and all his evil, all its argumdnts all | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
its rationale. We have to do that in that is sustainable and credible. | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
Before I touch more deeply on the issue of Syria, I would welcome the | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
fact that this wide-ranging debate which was allowed by the Backbench | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
Business Committee has also allowed us to touch on other situathons as | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
well. The situation in Yemen has been mentioned and rightly so. Last | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
week, one of them Honorable members I heard from how they are treating | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
this as one of the most serhous humanitarian situations in the | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
world. But we need to understand just what that means. We talked | :20:16. | :20:24. | |
about the Medicare crisis, that s humanitarian crisis, not just in the | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
greater Middle East, but more widely as well. Just as though it hs some | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
new statistical phenomenon, we need to remember the real pressures that | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
is causing and the real dem`nd there. People want to know hf are | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
going to respond to certain situations, Warren would respond | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
admittedly at all levels at other situations that well. The ldvel of | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
aid we are talking about th`t would need to go to Syria to help | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
surrounding, the mac cheese with that crisis, people suffering other | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
pressures want to know why there is not the same urgency there. Does | :20:58. | :21:08. | |
more urgency care... , whendver Google down the table for | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
consideration in terms of humanitarian concern. It is also | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
very important to hear about the situation in the Middle East, where | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
people would regard as the core most enduring Middle East conflict. The | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
situation in Israel and Paldstine. To hear both members earlier speak | :21:28. | :21:35. | |
so come publicly have to bite the situation should not be loshng | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
attention and way it appears be doing, relative to the situ`tion in | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
Syria. Let us remember that situation is one of the factors that | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
well, that is used in the ftll weight of radicalisation agdnda that | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
too many people seek to prolote And we're going to confront those sort | :21:57. | :22:04. | |
of evil logic standard used, by the cynical rational that is usdd by | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
people like Daesh and other people would try to, with a preferred | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
extremism but mama do, but need to remember that recruiting position of | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
the west in relation to the Palestine situation. As one of their | :22:21. | :22:31. | |
main bits of evidence as to interest there. Let us remember that that | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
conflict which we are now sdeing you again pursued with more | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
demolitions, more settlements going forward, and it pretty ineffective | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
diplomatic response by the way. This is the same but that is talking | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
about partially divest diplomatic efforts alongside military dfforts, | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
humanitarians, covering as ` strategy we are hearing. Thd people | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
at to say what will be the puality of the scenes diplomatic effort But | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
we see that effort being put in elsewhere? Do we see in the Middle | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
East and Palestine? People don't. People see DEQ in particular -- a | :23:09. | :23:15. | |
few adopting a screensaver `pproach. In relation to what is happdning to | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
the Palestinian. Shapes are done, images are projected, impressions | :23:23. | :23:26. | |
are created, but nothing re`l is actually going on. Will do less on | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
the Israeli government to any song in the thematic message frol EU | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
Government or the UK Governlent seriously in relation to anx of | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
these ongoing violations. Foundation of Syria itself. -- not on the issue | :23:41. | :23:51. | |
of Syria. Pathology of the `rguments and. I know he thinks he has covered | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
the basis of a comprehensivd strategy touching on a numbdr of | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
issues. Some of us do not bdlieve that the elements all of colplete, | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
nor do we believe that they actually add up to the coherent comp`ny has a | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
strategy that will succeed hn the way that the Prime Minister claims. | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
Who do not pretend that the situation in the choice is dxactly | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
the same as the trust that this probably based in relation to Iraq. | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
But that does not mean therd are no similarities and no issues that we | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
had to ask of ourselves agahn. We cannot come up with Prime Mhnister | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
has said that you document that we should not outsource our defence to | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
others. Nor should we outsotrce our judgement to others just because | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
other people highly engaging and military intervention, does not mean | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
we should do the same thing. This not be doing something becatse | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
others are doing good. We also need to remember we have a very fickle | :24:48. | :24:55. | |
alliance arrangement being proposed in relation to this particular | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
intervention. Would have a somewhat shifting alliance including some | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
fairly shifty Alize. That is when it comes to the other states. Will look | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
to the forces that are meant to be the grind forces, -- ground forces, | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
we have to recognise that the question of how many of thel are | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
truly reliable and moderate into the future is one that could cole to, | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
some Honorable members given the glib way in which they have talked | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
about the 70,000 members behng available. There have been puite a | :25:26. | :25:33. | |
large number of members who withdrawn Bedene from the lhst. I'm | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
going to praise the time lilit to minutes. Per backbench consdrvation. | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
I'm at the job that again, but I do leave it at the job that ag`in, but | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
I believe that tenant. I'll try to build the ten minutes that xou have | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
now made available to me. I have prepared something to last for seven | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
minutes. Will see how it gods. I congratulate my Honorable friend who | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
is no longer in his place of securing this debate. I withdraw the | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
House is attention to my entry in the register of members fin`ncial | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
interest. In recent years, we have witnessed the assent of a brutal and | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
destructive form of Islam and destructive form of. Deducthng | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
-year-old Christian operations have been purged -- 2000. Endured a | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
genocide. Ancient cultural heritage has been destroyed. And one stable | :26:29. | :26:35. | |
countries have descended into chaos. It is without question that the | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
terrorist attacks in Paris or had direct assault on our way of life. | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
Just as in their own way, whth the attacks on British citizens and | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
Tunisia. Political leaders `nd the public alike are common to the | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
relaxation now that is not ` problem in a far-flung region of thd world | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
that we can simply will havd way. Sadly, it is the tragedy appears to | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
open our eyes to the fact that this is a problem that we cannot afford | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
to ignore any blogger. Advice is allowed to fester, we will see a | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
continuation of the ethnic cleansing, indoctrination of future | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
generations and Isil held territories, and thousands lore | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
displaying sent data displaxed Syrians in Iraq the. I welcome the | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
fact that the government is totally putting the British intervention to | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
the boat this week in the House Let us know that Isil is one | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
manifestation of the evil of radical Islam. It would be unwise to the | :27:40. | :27:48. | |
outcast reprehensible groups like... And others in a different or better | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
life. But they have all participated in Islamist violence, destroying | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
lives across many communitids in the Middle East and beyond. It hs | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
important to recognise that there are democratic forces within many | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
countries in the region and Britain should take the lead and supporting | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
them whenever possible. The majority of citizens and Syria, Iran, Lebanon | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
and elsewhere want to live their lives in normality. Without the | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
daily interruption of bombs and attacks. The air was Frank surely | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
demonstrates a desire for change. And for democracy. In this conflict, | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
we have the advantage of military Cypriots too superiority. This alone | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
is not enough to plan and is not what is being proposed. When Isil is | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
eventually defeated, unless we are careful, and that the group will | :28:49. | :28:50. | |
re-emerge under a different name. Unless we can also target bdcause | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
which is the ideology, not only the effect with just the actions of | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
Isil. Some like the farm minister of Sweden have relayed this misguided | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
notion that the Israeli-Paldstinian conflict is to group to the current | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
turmoil in the Middle East `nd that once it's resolved, the blight of | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
radicalism will and. That is not the case. Part of the reason whhle we | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
are at this current state is because too much focus, rather than too | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
little focus, has been placdd on the conflict at the expense of other | :29:31. | :29:38. | |
topics in the region. That he did it last, when a somewhat left-wing | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
Canadian journalist made a speech which I happen to completelx agree. | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
But he said was that when hd first went to Israel, he pointed out in | :29:51. | :29:59. | |
his news office, there were a huge number of journalists concentrating | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
on the Israeli Palestinian conflict at the expense of the whole region. | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
The conflict is at best a mhnor sideshow. The work in Libya, Syria, | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
Iraq and elsewhere have braced on. -- war. The UN decided to p`ss six | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
resolutions against Israel, the only good stable democracy in thd region | :30:24. | :30:31. | |
last week. The existence of... Is to overlook the divisions withhn a | :30:32. | :30:33. | |
region that had existed for centuries. It also ignores the very | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
large part played by certain countries most notably Saudh Arabia. | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
Will spend billions to fund the toxic and destructive spread of | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
ideology across Muslim commtnities worldwide. It is imperative that | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
Britain and the whole civilhzed world does whatever it is | :30:53. | :31:03. | |
The UK has eight planes Bar`k of which two are active -- Irap... We | :31:04. | :31:21. | |
only talked about one or two planes going to Syria. That is the debate | :31:22. | :31:30. | |
that we can have... On Wedndsday, I am not going to answer that now We | :31:31. | :31:39. | |
do need to put pressure on stop exporting its radical ideology | :31:40. | :31:51. | |
worldwide. I therefore what steps the government will take in ensuring | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
that the ideology is not spread further across the Middle E`st, | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
before finishing I would like to also highlight another important | :32:03. | :32:05. | |
country in the region which has been consumed by was violent but equally | :32:06. | :32:24. | |
destructive Islamic State. Hn Turkey,... The same governmdnt is a | :32:25. | :32:30. | |
vocal supporter of the terrorist group Hamas, work masterminding | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
deadly attacks against Isradlis from the Istanbul headquarters. Hn the | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
case of our approach to Turkey as is too often, Realpolitik has taken | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
over from human values and hgnoring the fact that democracy is not only | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
about having an election. In addition, despite there is latent | :32:53. | :33:00. | |
list of Isil suspects, but government in Turkey has turned a | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
blind eye to Isil terrorists and instead prioritising Kurdish forces | :33:06. | :33:15. | |
in Syria,... The erratic actions of Turkey, especially taking into | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
consideration last weeks development of Russia, giving us increasing | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
cause for concern. So on thd question of Turkey I asked the | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
Secretary of State if he will join me in condemning... And if he can | :33:29. | :33:37. | |
explain how we can expect Isil and other jihadists to be dislodged from | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
its territory in Syria when Turkey is bombing the Kurdish? I thank the | :33:43. | :33:49. | |
honourable gentleman for giving way, on the moment Turkey is still | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
talking to the European union about it session into the European Union, | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
what signal does this same when the government as you point out takes | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
this action about potential entry into the European Union. I think my | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
Honorable friend raises a good point. It sends a very conftsed | :34:09. | :34:18. | |
signal and at worst it shows that we do not care what is happening in the | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
Middle East and I think that is not a signal that we want to send. We | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
should not send to Turkey, we should say to Turkey that we do not agree | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
with what they are doing and that they are actually supporting a form | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
of Islamic fundamentalism in their actions. So Madam Speaker,, Madam | :34:39. | :34:46. | |
Deputy Speaker, I am not sure I have fully used might be out extra | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
allotted ten minutes, but ldt me finish up by going back to what I | :34:52. | :35:01. | |
said at the beginning. The situation in the Middle East is a verx | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
confused situation, but it hs not surprising, it is not surprhsing in | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
my view, that the Western press ignored totally the rise of Isil. It | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
is not at all so prizing th`t they ignored the rise of Isil, they were | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
not looking. All of their actions were focused on what was happening | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
in the Israeli -Palestinian conflict, not in the wider region. | :35:26. | :35:33. | |
What my Honorable friend agree with me that the same is true of the | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
conflict that is going on in Yemen in recent months and years, that | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
they were not just looking? I think to a certain extent the press is | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
still not looking at Yemen, and I think we have heard excellent | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
contributions from members on the other side about situation hn Yemen. | :35:54. | :36:02. | |
I do... It is something that we all need to concentrate on to m`ke sure | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
that the press are not just focus on one thing that is easy for them to | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
get a grip on. Made easy by the openness of Israel in allowhng them | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
in and access to everything that there is to talk about in the | :36:18. | :36:25. | |
Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Does he also agreed that it is not just | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
the media that too often many of us looked at events in the middle east | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
and had wishful thinking, and now it needs to be more pragmatic to solve | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
the challenges that we are facing? I think my Honorable friend m`kes a | :36:42. | :36:50. | |
good point it is time to look into a bigger picture. Am sure it hs a | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
picture that the foreign office to look at and it is a picture that we | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
need to encourage the press and the general population in this country, | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
and also members of this Hotse, to look out and take into accotnt the | :37:04. | :37:11. | |
fact that the region has many conflicts going on. Some of them are | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
more serious than others, gdnuinely more serious than others. I would | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
but they Yemen conflict in that particular category, I would raise | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
it up to being probably the number one conflict there is at thd moment. | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
I do think that he makes a very good point about encouraging people to | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
take that larger view of wh`t is happening in the region. With that, | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
I have almost taken my ten linutes, which was very kind of you to make | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
that available and I look forward to comments from the Minister hf he | :37:47. | :37:54. | |
wishes. Delighted to use up the last minute of his time by responding to | :37:55. | :37:57. | |
the two points he has made. He is right to be concerned about the | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
growth of Islamic extremism in Syria, we are working with 000 or so | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
actions that have proven thdmselves to say they do not want to be part | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
of Assad's regime and look `fter their own communities and do not | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
want to be part of terrorisl. Absolutely Turkey is now part of the | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
international Coalition, it was struck by a Isil, there was a | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
terrorist attacked not long ago I think the Minister for that and we | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
will probably have further discussions about Turkey. Thank you | :38:31. | :38:37. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, I do believe will not take my allotted thme, but | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
nonetheless thank you for your generosity. I think the member sets | :38:43. | :38:52. | |
the tone, and excellent sound, a tone which continues throughout the | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
debate. I hope it will conthnue throughout the debate again and when | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
we come to deal with the substantive issue of Syria in the coming days. I | :39:01. | :39:08. | |
would also like to comment on the Honorable member's analysis which I | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
thought was an excellent an`lysis and came and went right to the heart | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
of this particular issue and I thought it made a rather pertinent | :39:17. | :39:24. | |
and decisive fashion. We ard in a situation where we have 12 lillion | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
displaced people, 250,000 ddad in this eerie and, in the nation of | :39:31. | :39:39. | |
Syria, possibly more. That hs the context in which we are havhng this | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
debate and this is the contdxt that we have to take deeply seriously and | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
respect everybody's view. M`dam Deputy Speaker, I have had ` great | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
deal of contact from people in my constituency who are expressing | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
their views about the situation in Syria in general and the qudstion of | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
the military intervention in general. I want to set out ly | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
position and this is been the basis of writing to people in my | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
constituency on this matter and I think it is the responsibilhty of | :40:14. | :40:16. | |
every member in this house to have their say and express their view on | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
this very important debate. I complexity and in this regard any | :40:19. | :40:31. | |
decision made, to intervene militarily or not, must be lade on | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
most relevant and pertinent information and evidence as | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
possible. Moreover, it in the scrutiny on the forearm that will | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
ultimately make the decision to authorise the bombing of Ishs, Isil, | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
they issued, or what ever they are called and no one person or group | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
has the right to claim the loral high ground, I definitely don't and | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
I don't especially in the context of the suffering being inflictdd on the | :41:09. | :41:16. | |
innocent and Syria. In the recent statement to Parliament, thd Prime | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
Minister set out his four phllars strategy in relation to the Syrian | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
crisis, and namely the counter extremism, the blue Maddock and | :41:25. | :41:31. | |
political process, military action and immediate humanitarian `id and | :41:32. | :41:39. | |
longer-term stabilisation. Third, I acknowledge that this is a | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
reasonable framework in which to debate which decision should be | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
made. However, it has to be done on that basis, four pillars, the four | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
pillar comprehensive strategy and not by putting into effect just one | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
or two of the pillars. In isolation with the intention of other pillars | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
being constructed at some ftture and unspecified date. In effect, the | :42:05. | :42:11. | |
current position does not in my view does not constitute... That is a | :42:12. | :42:20. | |
real concern. Fourthly, in ly estimation, set up by the Prime | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
Minister is the political and diplomatic process and it is not so | :42:24. | :42:31. | |
much the aim itself that I disagree with, who could disagree with that | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
aim? My concern is the practical implementation. What would ht | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
actually and hell, the timetable for the implementation, what is the | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
likely success of the process given the multitude of interesting and in | :42:48. | :42:57. | |
some cases opposed parties hn a wide recognised volatile mix? For | :42:58. | :43:10. | |
example, how are we going to get neighbouring states involved? He | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
mentions that there was no plan for who will be governing Syria after | :43:14. | :43:21. | |
any intervention, but that hs surely after political in the hands of the | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
Syrian people? I think that is a fair point, but at the end of the | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
day that is where we are now, we have no idea, there is not ` road | :43:32. | :43:39. | |
map for that whatsoever. Th`t seems like jam tomorrow, we will | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
eventually get there, we have to lay out the pathway to that now. Just | :43:43. | :43:49. | |
because we started now, I'd take the Honorable Lady's point but we really | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
do have to try to focus and a little bit more on this particular issue. | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
My concern is not about the practical implement Tatian ,- | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
implementation, but what is the timetable and what the succdss | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
issues are? As that that pohnt, other pillars of the dreaded Jerry | :44:10. | :44:17. | |
were genuinely laudable, such as humanitarian and stabilisathon plan, | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
but crucially the mechanisms for delivery of them. Madam Deptty | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
Speaker, in addition, it gods without saying that a systelatic | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
counter extremist approach hs crucial in any strategy but it begs | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
the question of whether or not such a strategy is dependent upon | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
military intervention first, per se, as the two of them are not so to | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
speak symbolically liened or interdependent. To activate is one | :44:47. | :44:56. | |
part of the strategy, to implement just one pillar, namely milhtary | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
action, evidently in the form of bombing is an appropriate at this | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
point, notwithstanding the interventions currently on the way, | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
by other nations. Maybe I c`n clarify to the House that bombing is | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
already taking place in Syrha and Britain is participating and | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
providing intelligence and reconnaissance for that bombing to | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
take place, so we are already in that arena. In answer to wh`t is | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
happening on the Vienna front, the talks have made progress and has | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
brought these groups togethdr for the first time, including Iran and | :45:33. | :45:39. | |
Russia. They spoke of a cease-fire, they spoke of eventual elections, | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
these are parts of a lexicon that I have not heard of in the last four | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
years and this is increment`l and small steps but very import`nt | :45:49. | :45:51. | |
steps. The last point I would make is that the opposition groups that I | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
spoke of, these factions, whll also be brought together and these are | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
the ones that have been defdnding their communities, who do not want | :46:00. | :46:07. | |
to work for Assad were part of a terrorist organisation. I wdlcome | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
his clarification to some extent on that point, it is increment`l and we | :46:12. | :46:20. | |
need to move further on. Ond or two or three increments is not | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
sufficient in my view. I do not want to miss and -- misinterpretdd the | :46:26. | :46:38. | |
need for intervention, but... Other nations are fighting our battles for | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
us and protecting our national security through bombing Ishs and I | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
think we should fight our own battle. We are in alliance with | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
others, otherwise it reflects on our national integrity and this is a | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
argument appealing to pride, but for reason, and we know that prhde comes | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
before a fall. We are in no position to criticise the decisions of other | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
people in this matter, nor would I, I can only speak for myself. Making | :47:10. | :47:16. | |
challenges and the surgeons and asking questions is not criticism, | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
rather the bread and butter of the parliamentary and democratic process | :47:23. | :47:29. | |
and that is why I stand herd. So in conclusion Madam Deputy Spe`ker I | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
hope I said my position as clearly and distinctly as possible given all | :47:35. | :47:45. | |
the pressures facing us all. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker and it is a | :47:46. | :47:54. | |
pleasure and I congratulate my honourable friend for having this | :47:55. | :48:02. | |
happen. The UK's role in thd Middle East which is a wide ranging subject | :48:03. | :48:12. | |
and my answer I believe is really quite simple, which for a vdry | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
complicated area, you might think I am being a bit and... Air again Let | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
me explain. My answer is thhs seat UK's role in the Middle East, we | :48:24. | :48:31. | |
keep out militarily and unldss our way of life in our nation or an | :48:32. | :48:41. | |
allies is directly threatendd. If we are on that line, we would have not | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
invaded Iraq or got involved in Libya, for example. Hind site is | :48:47. | :48:55. | |
invaluable in judging the p`st actions and we should use hhstory | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
and deciding future ones. Wd react, sometimes violently, when others try | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
to impose their will on us. So why do we keep trying to impose our will | :49:09. | :49:16. | |
on them. If we learn nothing else, we must recognise that many | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
countries in the Middle East are always run by unsavoury reghmes | :49:21. | :49:29. | |
Barack is a prime example, tnder so damn his Zane, a rock was stable and | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
fairly secular, and he pushdd his luck and Kuwait and rightly sent | :49:35. | :49:42. | |
packing. In 1991, we did not pursue Saddam into a rock -- Iraq. Mr Bush | :49:43. | :49:54. | |
Junior, his son, do not unddrstand that philosophy and was detdrmined | :49:55. | :50:02. | |
to outdo his father in the chaos was there for all to see. Isil, Daesh, | :50:03. | :50:09. | |
call it what you will is a different matter altogether. How wonddrful it | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
will be if a political solution was possible? And all options mtst be | :50:14. | :50:25. | |
explored. But I doubt it will went through on this particular occasion. | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
Isil is a repugnant organis`tion which runs significant terrhtory in | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
Iraq in Syria and imposing hts hateful fundamentalism on innocent | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
people who have been effecthvely enslaved. The threat to us here in | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
the UK is very real and thotgh the terrorist might be home-grown, he or | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
she is likely to of been encouraged and radicalised by the evil being | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
spouted by so-called Islamic State or Bob Baer and return to the UK. As | :50:59. | :51:05. | |
the saying goes and I love this thing, I will not put it directly, I | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
will paraphrase. If good men do nothing, evil thrives. It is so | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
powerful that. It is such a powerful moral guide, for me personally. I | :51:18. | :51:25. | |
have no doubt it will if we turned a blind eye to this most recent | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
challenge to our security and way of life. To take our country to war is | :51:29. | :51:35. | |
always the most serious dechsion any of us here have to make. But we are | :51:36. | :51:42. | |
already at war. We are bombhng Isil and Barack. -- Iraq. But thd moment | :51:43. | :52:05. | |
these terrorist bugs crossed an invisible line in the sand, they are | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
safe from our aircraft. Thex are safe to kill, maim, torture for | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
another day. That is of course, unless our allies do the dirty work | :52:19. | :52:26. | |
for us. Cannot be right, whdn we all face a common enemy? Can th`t be | :52:27. | :52:34. | |
right when citizens of one of our closest allies are butchered in | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
their capital city? Can that be right when those self same `llies | :52:40. | :52:47. | |
call for our help? Can that be right when an organisation as hatdful as | :52:48. | :52:57. | |
Isil is allowed to operate tnimpeded and slaving, raping and killing | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
perfectly innocent people in their own country for some twisted form of | :53:01. | :53:07. | |
Islam? I do not think so. There is no doubt in my view and I w`s a | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
former soldier that bombing alone will not solve the problem. Nor will | :53:14. | :53:19. | |
it end of fundamentalist Islam. But it will do great Isil's | :53:20. | :53:26. | |
capabilities, kill and his spirit its operatives and bring hope and | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
relief to those fighting thd terrorists on the ground. I am not | :53:32. | :53:47. | |
as well briefed from the Prhme Minister, but... Neither ard as | :53:48. | :53:56. | |
moderate as we're led to believe, I think all sides in this horrific war | :53:57. | :54:03. | |
behave as badly as each othdr. That is not a reason for sitting on our | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
hands, leapt to their own to their own devices Isil will fluorhdation | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
and their apocalyptic vision of a new caliphate will only grow in the | :54:13. | :54:20. | |
twisted minds of those who seek it. Following the prime minister's | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
excellent statement last Thtrsday I asked him how many further | :54:24. | :54:31. | |
atrocities to the West tolerate before the demand for goods on the | :54:32. | :54:40. | |
ground force them to put thdm there, for ultimately this is the only way | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
that we can effectively deal with this scourge. I am not a banging on | :54:44. | :54:51. | |
the drums for war, I do not want to see our men and women on thd front | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
line again, but if you follow through logically, it is probably | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
the only solution. I believd that working with the Russians, ` large | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
and mostly national force could sweep Isil from Syria and Iraq. From | :55:08. | :55:17. | |
a military perspective of t`king and holding ground, you cannot do it | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
just from the air, understandably there is no stomach for a ground war | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
at the moment. We are told that will be prosecuted by groups alrdady on | :55:27. | :55:34. | |
the ground, and optimistic notion at best. The question we need to ask is | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
what happens if bombing does not succeed? So the only logical | :55:38. | :55:45. | |
question is ground troops of the size and capability to crush Isil | :55:46. | :55:52. | |
once and for all. And there is a risk, this could raise itself | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
elsewhere but that is not a reason to sit on our hands now. Evdn as I | :55:58. | :56:04. | |
say this, I shudder with anticipation, not at the task in | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
hand but if the voters would ever support another to enter into this | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
troubled part of the world. They were duped over a rock, led with | :56:16. | :56:22. | |
good intentions into Libya `nd by revenge into Afghanistan. I wonder | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
if the will to fight has bedn knocked out of us and what will it | :56:28. | :56:35. | |
take to regain it. My hope hs not an attack on the scale of the twin | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
towers that will finally convince us that if we are truly to protect our | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
way of life, we need our Arled Forces and those of our all allies | :56:46. | :56:55. | |
in harms way again. I hope this does not occur and I hope all efforts | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
made diplomatically will work. But we are dealing with an organisation | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
that does not do talk very well They kill and torture and crucify | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
extremely well. I doubt whether the talk is actually going to solve the | :57:13. | :57:18. | |
problem, but as I said I do hope that our Armed Forces are not called | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
with allies to be put on thd ground. May conclude by saying that if you | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
follow this logically and do some form of appreciation as we were | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
taught to do in the Armed Forces, the conclusion must be that the only | :57:34. | :57:41. | |
solution is to put a massivd ground force on the ground and to crush | :57:42. | :57:42. | |
Isil once and for all. Own I pay tribute to my Honorable | :57:43. | :57:55. | |
friend, the Member for callhng it and securing it. The Middle East is | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
the crucible in which we were forged three of the world's great | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
religions, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, and which can incrddibly | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
claim to be the cradle of ancient civilizations and empires, by those | :58:08. | :58:14. | |
of Babylon, which rose and fell while our own country was still in | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
its infancy. I say this bec`use as the Minister has already alluded to, | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
while it is a region whose history and present has been scarred by war | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
and strife, we should never forget this proud and complex history, when | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
we reflect on today's Middld East. After the collapse of the Ottoman | :58:34. | :58:40. | |
Empire, the UK and other powers played a role in the creation of the | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
modern middle east. In a wax that creates nation states, on the | :58:45. | :58:51. | |
Australian model, which paid too little heed to historical rdalities | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
on the ground. Similarly, as the Cold War was a power play in the | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
region, the overriding desire was for stable nation states, which | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
often took the form of government by nationalist military stronglan, who | :59:08. | :59:10. | |
governed and maintained thehr hold on power, by seeing all divdrsity or | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
civil society as dissent, and sought to crush it. This is all me`nt the | :59:16. | :59:22. | |
slow development of the institutions required in a functioning | :59:23. | :59:24. | |
imperialistic democratic st`te, in many countries. It is a reghon that | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
I know well, having spent thme in Yemen, Oman, Syria, Lebanon, and | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
Israel, and Palestine, for which I have a great deal of affecthon, but | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
for the land and its people. Although I hope to cover thd UK s | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
relationship with Yemen and Oman, I do feel I must touch on Syrha, | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
albeit briefly, as a mini Honorable members have spoken, so elopuently | :59:50. | :59:55. | |
and at length, most recentlx my member from South Dorset. I fully | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
appreciate, and understand the concerns -- concerns expressed by | :00:01. | :00:03. | |
Honorable members, and by otr constituents, and I respect what are | :00:04. | :00:12. | |
clearly and sincerely held views. This resonates with me. To ly | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
knowledge of and affection for this country and people make sit all the | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
more saddening to see what has become of and affection for this | :00:20. | :00:21. | |
country and people make sit all the more saddening to see what has | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
become, turned Daesh, and a case for which is very compelling. What is | :00:28. | :00:35. | |
clear to me, is that to do nothing in the face of the threat, to | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
ordinary Syrians, the wider region, and to our own country, posdd by | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
Daesh, is the wrong approach. We must ensure that any action taken in | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
its proportionate, as the Prime Minister has intimated, it would | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
be. I support extending the bombing of Daesh, from a rock to zero, and | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
will vote in favour of it when that vote comes forward, the Irap Syria | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
border, Mr Deputy Speaker, hs not respected by these terrorists to | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
move freely across it. And therefore, has no practical sense | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
for us to be able to actually degrade the capability on one side | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
of the border, and not cross over to to the other. I do believe that such | :01:15. | :01:21. | |
action should not stand alone, and requires a parallel comprehdnsive | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
strategy to tackle Daesh, and in the set are running out of a longer | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
vision to bring peace to Syria, and the wider region I welcome the Prime | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
minister's commitment on thhs. Alongside that, must be card and | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
consideration for humanitarhan needs of the country, and moves to choke | :01:38. | :01:46. | |
off Daesh's resources, and funding. One key plot of that wider context | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
of course, is the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, a | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
long-running sore, finding hts origin in the days of British, more | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
direct British, involvement in the region, and while I have huge | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
respect for my Honorable frhend with whom I agree on many things, I | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
would say that I do not agrde with them that this is but a siddshow. | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
For too long, I believe that the leaders of both sides have let down | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
their people, by not making greater progress in delivering peacd. It is | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
the ordinary people of both sides who have suffered. It is more | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
important than ever, that wd join with others who desire peacd, to | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
work to achieve a long-term solution to the conflict, however distant | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
that may appear at times. Mr... With my Honorable friend agree that the | :02:35. | :02:42. | |
main actors in the Israel P`lestine is the United States? And, Britain | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
can play a very important role there the United States, and understanding | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
the regional disputes in Israel and Palestine? Hopefully bringing that | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
to a solution that we all ddsire? I agree with her. The United Kingdom, | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
with his historic links, and understanding to the region, has the | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
potential, not only to play a positive role in helping to move us | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
towards peace, with Israel `nd Palestine, but in the wider region, | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
more generally, and I believe the basic ingredient of a long-term | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
settlement, must include thd Israel secure borders. Recognized by her | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
neighbours, and free from all acts of aggression, and threats of | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
terrorism, living peacefullx alongside a viable, independent | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
Palestine. Alongside these key elements, I believe that sh`ring | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
Jerusalem is part of the agreement, as would compromise the Paldstinians | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
on their right to overtime, and the recognition by Israel, that | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
settlements on Palestinian lines, are wrong and must be given up. Too | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
often in this debate, peopld say they are pro-Israel, or pro | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
Palestine, and I believe th`t in order to be pro peace, one lust be | :03:53. | :04:00. | |
pro both. And while the urgdncy of finding... I believe the importance | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
of doing so has never been greater, and we must play our role in | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
restarting stalled peace talks. I do not often agree with the Honorable | :04:10. | :04:18. | |
member for Hammersmith, howdver on this occasion, and in today's | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
debate, when he referred to Yemen as the unseen war, the hitter `nd more, | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
and he is absolutely right. The forgotten war, I believe is what he | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
sets up the forgotten war, H believe is what he said to be and and | :04:29. | :04:36. | |
eloquently about it. I visited. . Do you think the media have a | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
responsibility to highlight what is going on in Yemen, for more than | :04:43. | :04:50. | |
they are? And, and in so dohng, they will show more clearly the wider | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
problems in the Middle East? I agree, and not only to the ledia | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
have a responsibility to cover conflicts, such as Yemen, btt of | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
course, all of us in this House do as well. And to take the opportunity | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
to highlight the issue, and I know that we haven't Honorable mdmber in | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
this house who cares passionately about that, -- country. I h`ve | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
visited Yemen on him for application, and have grown just a | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
little to understand this priority in a complex country. I'm proud to | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
declare myself a friend of. The former president of Yemen ddscribed | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
to governing this country as like dancing on the head of snakds. So | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
complex as its recent history, and a mix of tribal and religious | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
differences, it is currentlx in the Pro of war is bringing untold | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
humanitarian suffering to mhllions of people, and faces many d`unting | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
challenges. A population of around 13 million with incredibly low | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
incomes, and a burgeoning young male population, with limited economic | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
prospects. It is a dangerous cocktail Mr Deputy Speaker, this | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
coupled with genuine security threat, from HBP, and across the | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
country, a fractured policy on religion and tribal differences And | :06:14. | :06:21. | |
of course, putting that bashc infrastructure challenge, lhke | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
dwindling supply of water. @nd of course, for many decades, if not | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
centuries, Yemen has often been used as the geopolitical playgrotnd of | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
other powers, playing out their own internal politics. In the ilmediate | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
term, I believe we must do what we can to alleviate humanitari`n | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
suffering, and I pay tributd to the UK government and my right | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
honourable friend and Secretary of State for International Devdlopment, | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
for her focus, and of coursd to use EF, --, save the children, who do so | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
much an extremely challenging circumstances copy but I believe | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
that we must urgently find ways to reopen the shattered... Upon which | :06:59. | :07:06. | |
so much of this country's at ergonomic prospect depends. And to | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
ensure the security situation is such, that means it can be | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
distributed. Central to doing that, will be a meaningful and re`l | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
cease-fire. I welcome peace talks and prospects, which have the best | :07:21. | :07:28. | |
chance for a lasting settlelent between the president and the | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
rebels. I believe that the TK has the potential to play a verx | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
important role in fertility -- facilitating such peace talks, and I | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
pay tribute in that context, not only to the Minister for his work, | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
but to my right honourable friend, being a member, for his work both as | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
a minister and envoy in that process. I have done much, but there | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
is much more to do. Whatever emerges from this peace talks must dmerge | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
from the Yemenis themselves. And not be imposed from others. Must be very | :08:00. | :08:10. | |
conscious of the fact that `nything in, with the prospect is a set - | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
success, must reflect the ndeds of the Yemeni people, and I'm believe | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
it must also reflect the diversity of opinion and interest across the | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
whole of Yemeni society, it has a prospect of sticking. And of course, | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
any long term, we will reinvest in rebuilding Yemen, modernizing its | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
infrastructure, particularlx in helping to give economic hope to | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
millions of. Yemen's water infrastructure has been strtggling | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
for many years, but I believe 6 % of the water going for many ye`rs, but | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
I believe 60% of the water going through the pipes were lost a large | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
portion of its water being tsed to grow daft, and not other crops. And | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
with wells been dug for indtstrial purposes, when the law says they | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
should only be used for domdstic purposes, all of these are hssues | :08:58. | :08:59. | |
that need to be addressed, `nd I would hope that in the rebuhlding of | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
the country, one of the isstes that the government would look to | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
support, for example, desalhnation plants, which would genuinely give | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
Yemen and long-term prospect of a secure water future. Finallx, in the | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
context of regional plans, Hran and Saudi Arabia included, everxone in | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
the region needs to play thdir part, and bringing peace. I would like to | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
highlight one great success story in the region, the country that has | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
been a friend to the UK, and that is Oman study our relation ship -- our | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
relationship is back centurhes, and it is based on mutual trust, | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
respect, and understanding. He measured a steady path to | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
modernization and change, m`king him on what it is. Regionally, Oman | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
continues to play a role in advance in peace and acting as a brhdge | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
between Yemen and Iran, and Saudi Arabia, and the broader reghon. As | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
I'm on has developed and grown, and diversified its economy, and has | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
done so in a measured way. @llowing each step forward to his saddle We | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
must always remember that change must -- change must emerge from | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
within, not be imposed from outside. To democracy and chvil | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
society we enjoy, took centtries to establish, and we must be aware of | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
any quick fixes. I conclude by highlighting that with our | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
unparalleled links in understanding... We have a great | :10:27. | :10:35. | |
role to play. Thank you. Mr Deputy Speaker, last Thursday I warmly | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
commended the Prime Minister on the way that he had treated the House in | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
relation to the matter of sdrious. He was forthright in coming to this | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
house, and getting a lengthx statement and answering questions | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
for two hours. But I also s`id last Thursday, that it would be ` big | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
mistake for the Prime Minister to attempt to balance this house into a | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
decision. Early, and without proper debate. Now I understand, that the | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
Prime Minister has just announced on television, not to this house, but | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
on television, that the deb`te on Syria is to be this Wednesd`y. And, | :11:08. | :11:15. | |
can you confirm, first of all, that there could perfectly easilx be a | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
statement tonight, at 10pm, that would be perfectly in order, so this | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
could be made clear for the convenience of the whole hotse? | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
Secondly, can you confirm that if the government is not to table its | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
motion until tomorrow, which I understand is the case, that the | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
only amendment that we will be able to be considered on Wednesd`y, it is | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
still to be then, would be manuscript amendments? In 2013, we | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
were only able to consider manuscript amendments, goes there | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
has not been... There is no excuse in this circumstance for us to | :11:48. | :11:49. | |
consider manuscript amendments, goes there has not been... There is no | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
excuse in this circumstance rest us to be proceeding in such a way, when | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
they're making such that thdre is no reason why this cannot be, `nd who | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
has requested for the last two, three minutes, contributions to | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
debate, but so that the verx serious issues, that many people on all | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
sides of this house, want to raise with the government can be properly | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
considered? And, on one fin`l issue, I heard you confirm that if the | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
debate is two and 10pm, on Wednesday, rather than 7pm, with no | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
interruption, there also nedds to be another motion tabled, and ht will | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
be for the convenience of this house to table it today, so that `gain, if | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
people want to table amendmdnts to that, they can do so, and it would | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
not have to be manuscript amendments. I've adjusted to the | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
government that there are m`ny, on all sides of this house, we want to | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
listen to proper debates, on a matter that is not straightforward | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
and simple. And, any shenanhgans, any attempt to balance the House | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
into a decision, would be hhghly regrettable. Thank you. What I would | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
say is that you're right, and you are correct, it would need to be a | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
manuscript amendment if it comes later. Also, it would take ` | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
supplementary business statdment in order to change how the powdrs of | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
the setting on Wednesday wotld take us through to 10pm. Nobody has | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
asked, because he knew the `nswer before he asked. But I know he is | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
correct. It is on the record now, obviously is not for the ch`irman, | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
it is for the business, and I am sure the usual channels will be in | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
discussion to get to an early agreement, that will benefit all | :13:38. | :13:47. | |
members of this house. May offer my thanks to the Backbench Bushness | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
Committee, and congratulate my Honorable friend from the mdmber | :13:51. | :13:59. | |
from Bracknell. There have been many questions and concerns in this | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
debate, and I really apprechate the concerns and the use of on Oman and | :14:04. | :14:12. | |
Yemen. That is a really intdresting insight, which has not been covered | :14:13. | :14:19. | |
as much detail, earlier on, this evening, but particularly tonight, | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
we have had a focus on Syri`, and an aspect is, as to whether thd UK is | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
to participate further, any Coalition to defeat Isil. Wd have to | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
consider the risk of inaction, and whether that outweighs the risks of | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
action. But ultimately, any action, any intervention in Syria, lust be | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
decided upon on the basis of British national interests. Last ye`r, I | :14:45. | :14:52. | |
sold -- Isil declared that ht is now the Islamic caliphate, and this will | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
act as a continued draw too many radical Muslims. Isil has dhssolved | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
the brawl between a rock and Syriac, making a so-called state. | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
That is not a direct threat, the fact that this is happened `t all, | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
is an indication that Isil hs becoming a permanent presence in the | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
Middle East. To determining the national boundaries in the Liddle | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
East, it is clear that Isil has strength, and it isn't has `n | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
ability to draw Muslims to ` cause. Descriptive permanent threat to many | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
countries, when nationals rdturn home. No matter how well funded the | :15:35. | :15:42. | |
security service is. In 2014, there was a clear legal basis to join the | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
international Coalition of countries, in air strikes against | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
Iraq, acting in response to direct appeal from a sovereign govdrnment | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
of Iraq, to help them deal with terrorist threats, and to join a | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
Coalition of countries, agahnst Isil. Materia, is not a rack. Syria | :16:01. | :16:13. | |
has been engaged in civil w`r since 2011,... Including, Islamist groups | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
such as Isil, and others. Sxria does not have the ground troops of a | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
rack. The Iraqi security forces say inadequate, as they often are, are | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
better than nothing at all. They do not have in Syria, an organhzation | :16:33. | :16:41. | |
as strong as the Kurdish password I. But we must, consider any actions in | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
Syria... The lack of those known forces, the lack of strength of | :16:49. | :16:55. | |
those forces, available in serious. -- serious. -- Syria. He is making a | :16:56. | :17:05. | |
powerful case, and he is right to say that the Iraqi forces whll only | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
be positioned in a country, but it is taking time to build that | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
capability, and what needs to be indigenous forces. In Syria, it is a | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
different case, but the libdration of Raqqa will not happen ovdrnight. | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
I will make that very clear. We re still waiting for others to be | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
liberated, and that is in Iraq, but the forces we have there. I hope you | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
would concur, that there is a political direction travel which | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
needs to be concluded, which will allow a number of opportunities of | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
ground forces, to take on that role, of providing liberation of ` city, | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
which in my view, want to bd liberated. I agree with the | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
Minister, I think that is a strong point, the more united our front is, | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
the more these ground troops will gather behind reasonable | :17:59. | :18:06. | |
leadership, and that would go increasingly well for seriots. We | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
know that Raqqa is being usdd as the headquarters of Isil, and they | :18:14. | :18:15. | |
regarded as the capital of the state. And that is where many of the | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
military and terror schemes are either made, or inspired. Wd must | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
ask ourselves whether the ddcision for action or inaction in Sxria | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
should be influenced by the now meaningless Syria, Iraq border. | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
Although, a difficult milit`ry decision needs to be made on Syria, | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
we must remember that milit`ry strategy is only a fraction of the | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
whole comprehensive solution. A long-term solution in the Mhddle | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
East will only be achieved through political and democratic me`ns, when | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
the Syrian government represents all of the Syrian people, and I think | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
this is a point that the Minister makes about a unified force, that is | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
on the international communhty, from Russia, to the United States, and | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
all players in between, can create that centre upon which that Center | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
for just government, or a ddmocracy, can be built. Our diplomatic | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
efforts, and humanitarian stpport must continue, getting the politics | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
right in both the rack, and Syria. Is the immediate overriding | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
priority. Britain is committed to spending 0.7% of GDP on | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
international development, `nd it has Artie given more than ?0.1 | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
billion in aid to support the Syrian conflict. That is second only to the | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
United States of America. The prime minister is committed to further | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
support following any intervention, .com to be. Yet to be clear that | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
this is being done because the Britain's interests. It is hn our | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
national interests, group -, for refugees to have a home to return to | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
come up with a functioning infrastructure, with employlent | :20:09. | :20:20. | |
education to. -- to look forward to. Other countries are taking refugees | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
from the region, and I belidve that the response of this governlent is | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
right, taking 20,000 of the most needy, of the most vulnerable from | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
the region, is the right wax to go. I do not think we should be | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
encouraging mass migrations of people from the region to Etrope, | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
risking their lives, risking death, through the criminal gangs, risking | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
death on the high seas, risking death in terrible weather | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
conditions, in the deserts. It is also important to recognise the | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
objectives that Isil have. Hsil want to purge the area, they want to | :21:00. | :21:09. | |
purge what they regard as the state from UCD. Christians, but they | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
restored -- regards Muslims, the up and out of the way. It will make it | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
far easier, for Isil to est`blish the state, if there are no hnternal | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
oppositions. Once they have a more stable state, that is a poshtion | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
from which they would seek to expand. To exploit regional | :21:33. | :21:39. | |
problems, to exploit and attack Saudi Arabia. Further into rack for | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
Lebanon, what if Isil starts focusing more on the Lebanon. But if | :21:47. | :21:54. | |
there is more focused on Turkey And, also, as been raised and | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
mentioned a few times earlidr on, about Israel. Israel has not yet | :21:58. | :22:06. | |
been part of this conflict. But if Isil becomes an establishment in the | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
Middle East, at what point will they turn their eyes to Israel? Ht is | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
inevitable. It will happen. If we allow it to. Our thoughts rdmain | :22:18. | :22:30. | |
with Paris, the events that happened to all those suffering at the hands | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
of those terrorists during that awful and very recent attack. | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
Suicidal attackers in Paris had travelled to the region, and all had | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
been inspired by Isil. Isil continues to use social medha for | :22:46. | :22:52. | |
its propaganda, which are honourable friend raised concerns about the | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
wider media implications, and we really do need the media to be | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
responsible, when reporting what is going on. With regard to Ishl's | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
activities, but we also need more coverage and a better understanding | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
of what is going on in the Liddle East, and my view on what is | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
happening in Yemen. I think the media has a huge part to pl`y, and | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
making sure that tensions are not increased within Britain's. And | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
also, to foster that better understanding, within the British | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
population, because when people understand, Britain, as a n`tion, | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
and all of the circumstances in the region, then perhaps, fewer people | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
will be would be inclined to join Isil. Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish to | :23:40. | :23:47. | |
take this opportunity to pax tribute to our police and security services, | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
who were disrupt -- who havd disrupted many terrorist plots that | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
the United Kingdom. This government has a commitment to protect our | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
national security, at a timd of increasing global instability. And | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
to spend at least the minim`l of 2% of GDP on defence. It is thd first | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
priority of any government. And the protection and defence for hts | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
people from abroad, and domestically. This reminds ts of the | :24:18. | :24:25. | |
role of our security servicds in protecting us, but also to direct | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
threat Isil next-door lives in the UK, Europe, as well as in the Middle | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
East. The decision to use mhlitary force or not is one of the lost | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
significant decisions that Parliament will make in this | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
session, and I sincerely hope that the questions and concerns we, in | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
this House have raised, will be taken into account before any | :24:48. | :24:55. | |
decision is made. Is a huge pleasure to follow my honourable fridnd from | :24:56. | :25:07. | |
Golden West. I add my thanks to the Backbench Business Committed for | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
granting this debate, and mx congratulations to him for securing | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
it, it was a huge honour to support him in that effort, and I w`s | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
pleased to have done so. Now, for better reasons, the majoritx of the | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
contributions across the Hotse have focused on the present situ`tion, in | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
Syria, and whether or not this country should extend to Syria the | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
operations which are currently being conducted over the skies of Iraq. | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
The motion is more general, and focuses on the Middle East `s a | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
whole. There was a time when the general debate, on the Middle East | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
were more frequent, and occtrred in cover Dunn is that these issues as | :25:47. | :25:54. | |
they concern all the countrhes across the Middle East, ventilate | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
frequently, given the threat which this country faces. The outset, I | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
voice a plea, which under the Minister will hear and support, but | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
which needs to go to others who commanded business in this house. We | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
can return to debates in tile. It should not be necessary for the | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
honourable member and others and me to go to Backbench Business | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
Committee members to secure this. Today, more than ever, is a region | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
of such an incredible compldxity -- complexity in terms of problems that | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
faces. Is a coherent strategy on the part of the United Kingdom, and too | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
often appears beyond the wit of man to devise. A solution to thd Israel | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
Palestine conflict is no ne`rer than it was when I entered the House and | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
indeed, it seems to me to ddclare that the two, that the solo -- | :26:47. | :26:54. | |
solution is dead. We believd it showed a promise for the region and | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
the emergence of power backdrs across the Middle East has led to | :27:02. | :27:02. | |
the rise of extremism and tdrrorism. And no immediate or clear solution | :27:03. | :27:13. | |
to remedy it is apparent. Is almost impossible to know where to begin, | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
Syria we know a great deal lore than we did before Paris but the | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
situation is fluid and no one is exactly clear on how the horror of | :27:27. | :27:34. | |
Isil's Daesh should be addrdssed. Which pushed out moderate Stnni woes | :27:35. | :27:50. | |
loans which pushed out -- even the Hashemite dynasty claims to dissent | :27:51. | :27:58. | |
from the prophet are not isolated in the clearing or and Islamic | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
extremism when nine out of ten are Sunni. And Marhan, the preshdent | :28:03. | :28:11. | |
reached an agreement with the West and suffered a backlash... Wills his | :28:12. | :28:20. | |
country wants to sustain a loderate political future and I will give way | :28:21. | :28:29. | |
to the Minister. I am grateful to my Honorable friend who is makhng a | :28:30. | :28:37. | |
powerful speech and thank hhm again for securing this. He touchdd on the | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
error Orr elections in Febrtary will he agree with me that this will | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
be the first indication aftdr the signing of the nuclear deal and | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
Marhan, that the direction of travel this country will go, whethdr it | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
will engage with the region and take more responsibility and takd the | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
proxy influence it has on its neighbouring countries? I agree with | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
the Minister on that, and the difficulty will be which candidates | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
are admitted to stand by thd Guardian Council and we will see the | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
results of that in due course. Turning to Saudi Arabia, has been | :29:10. | :29:18. | |
accompanied by a questioning in some areas of the ultra conservative | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
ideology given the rise of ` Isil -Daesh, but the benefits of avoiding | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
too literal in appearance c`nnot detract from a proxy war behng | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
fought between the Saudi led Coalition and... The Yemenis are | :29:36. | :29:43. | |
going to Somalia and of all places in an attempt to reach safety. The | :29:44. | :29:52. | |
other Gulf states are not ilmune, Isil, Daesh,... Something which | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
failed to attract the attention of the world's press. New laws and of | :30:00. | :30:08. | |
string of arrests did not c`lm tensions. In Oman where the sultan | :30:09. | :30:18. | |
has held the reins for 50 ydars we do not know what will happen next to | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
this most stable of allies when the rains are handed over to others who | :30:25. | :30:34. | |
we do not know. The conditions now emerging in which we know I've shall | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
- Daesh Floris, that threatdns Tunisia, possibly the only thing | :30:39. | :30:52. | |
following A's success story. Algeria remains, but 95% of its budget are | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
delivered by oil revenues and how long will they keep a lid on local | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
Isil -Daesh friends franchiser mean to be seen. Even in Morocco the | :31:06. | :31:13. | |
conditions are ripe for the enemies of peace and an opportunity for the | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
long to Young, sluggish economic growth and a muzzled press, | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
something we find too frequdntly across the Middle East. I al very | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
grateful, he is as ever, as area died as he is open, and would my | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
Honorable and learned friend agree with me that while lower oil prices | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
are welcome to many of us in this country, there are risk in those | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
lower prices, such as Algerha, since... I agree, and it dods not | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
just affect stability in thd Middle East but other parts of the world | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
where oil producing regions also exist, we have two foreign office | :32:00. | :32:18. | |
ministers on the front Benj. -- bench. The world is sitting on a | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
powder keg and all the abusds across the region seem to have been lit, if | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
there is ever a time for a coherent strategy and policy, from this | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
country, the United States `nd all our other allies, this frankly is | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
it. Where though I'd tentathvely asked the Minister where is the | :32:40. | :32:47. | |
policy? Where is the strategy where we think is necessary? The crisis of | :32:48. | :32:54. | |
confidence in Barack in the last decade led the -- Iraq. Turned into | :32:55. | :33:12. | |
a to where we had as the Honorable friend made clear, a historhc role | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
in the Middle East and it rdmains a great deal of respect and affection | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
for this country and our abhlity to help maintain stability in the | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
region. Three things need to underline the British | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
foreign-policy, first we nedd to... The United States is in a | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
presidential election year but the initial isolation that char`cterised | :33:35. | :33:45. | |
the Obama... The Minister on the front bench but his of the | :33:46. | :33:53. | |
responsibility for the government bilaterally and in the Unitdd | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
Nations must be to root asstre that we work in concert and all hs clear, | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
without that clarity from the West on Israel and Palestine and the rise | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
of Isil Daesh, and Secretarx in his own, we risk creating dividds that | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
can be exploited by extremists Oppy secondly, we need to make clear to | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
every regime in the Middle Dast that minorities are to be respected and | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
properly included as part of the religious circuit. Including | :34:21. | :34:29. | |
minorities only opens for extremist ideologies and the rise of Hsil | :34:30. | :34:38. | |
Daesh or other various militias Thirdly, we need to be real and | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
recognise realistic approaches and solutions, rather than mealx-mouthed | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
attitudes about perfection that cannot be achieved. In the hmmediate | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
term we have to recognise, hf not embrace that the Vienna Keys talks | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
may lead to the recognition of some of the more moderate Islamist | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
parties as part of the immediate solution and Syria, we may not | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
desire it or like it, but wd may have to live with it. The priority | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
at present is dealing with Hsil Daesh and that cannot come without | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
some copper mines. In the longer term, we need to endure our own | :35:18. | :35:25. | |
misconceived notions where the region had no history of secular | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
democracy, will we one do not matter. It is time to recognise that | :35:29. | :35:37. | |
we do not know best what thd peoples of the Middle East want, th`t is a | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
question for them and not for us. No one, Mr Deputy Speaker, could have | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
foretold the chaos and thre`t posed by the situation in the Middle East | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
at the moment, even two or three years ago. By chaos Israel `s is the | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
threat that it poses to us hn this country, strengthen our belhefs and | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
going forward is part of thd answer, but the policy of this country and | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
the policy of our allies must recognise that we are at prdsent | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
failing our own citizens as well as the people of the region. Is time | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
for a change, which makes clear that we are invested in a realistic | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
future for the Middle East, it is that message which I think the | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
Minister, I know, recognises. It is that messaging needs to takd take | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
back the tonight and needs to go out loud and clear from this hotse. | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, and may I also commend my Honorable friend | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
for securing this very important debate. Also, with what the Minister | :36:39. | :36:46. | |
has said particularly considering the funding for diplomatic contacts, | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
the Honorable member for Stratford-on-Avon spoke abott the | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
UK's role in the Middle East over many centuries. I wish to | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
particularly focus on the role which is nearly 100 years old and that is | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
a role which started off with a declaration from the UK govdrnment, | :37:06. | :37:11. | |
a declaration which said th`t her Majesty's government views with | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
favour the establishment in Palestine of a national homd for the | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
Jewish people, the same declaration said... It is clearly, and H quote, | :37:20. | :37:27. | |
clearly understood that nothing shall be done which shall prejudice | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
the civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities in P`lestine. | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
My point here is that our role then decreased in 1948 and many people in | :37:41. | :37:49. | |
that area, Arabs, Israelis, and Palestinians will say the UK | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
government walked away and left the key under the mat. Today, wd have | :37:54. | :38:03. | |
been involved in action, and Libya, and Barack, and we may have more | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
action coming up in serious. And it is clear that our role and our | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
responsibility must be future proofed and it must be long,term. | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
What this means is that I bdlieve our role involved, some people talk | :38:20. | :38:28. | |
about George or, which is continuous and I believe that role has been | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
lacking in the Palestine arda and that the UK must continue to | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
negotiate and have diplomacx. We must still be talking about the | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
borders of Palestine and Israel We must still be talking about the | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
settlements. We must still be talking about security for Palestine | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
and Israel, we must talk about refugees right to return and have | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
raised this with the Ministdr responsible for steering refugees | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
and I have particularly askdd what is happening for the Palesthnian | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
refugees, can they go home? And will there be homes built for thdm in | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
Palestine? And of course we must still be talking about Jerusalem. | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
UK's role and response abilhty in the Middle East must be long-term | :39:19. | :39:25. | |
and ongoing. Contrary to wh`t the member had said, this is not a | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
sideshow. Up there can be no long-term peace and stability in the | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
region until there is peace and stability for Palestine and Israel. | :39:34. | :39:42. | |
Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I would like to begin by paying tribute to | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
my Honorable friend for sectring this very important debate `nd | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
thinking the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
to take place. We meet at a time when Britain's role in the Liddle | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
East is on the front pages for reason of war, but the same could be | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
said of almost any day in the last 100 years. If we want to have an | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
effective role in the Middld East, which I believe we can have, we need | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
to learn from the past and consider the president and look to the | :40:20. | :40:29. | |
future. The majority -- present The majority of Honorable members have | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
touched on Syria and our role in the coming days and months, but I would | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
like to consider a broader theme this evening. I want to beghn by | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
speaking directly to those hn this place and outside who say that we | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
should insulate ourselves. We should turn away and we should leave them | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
to it. To them I would say puite simply, the links between Britain, | :40:53. | :41:02. | |
England and Scotland, did not begin with the... The Judeo Christian | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
underpinnings of our nation were born between the Tigris and | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
Euphrates, the fact that thdre are Indo-European languages spoken as | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
far east as Afghanistan show our common and shared history. This is | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
something we cannot ignore. Opt in the debate is framed in terls of | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
trade, or how we can benefit from it, and war, but the links that we | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
have art deeper and more colplex, dealing with culture, relighon and | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
family and I am not the onlx member of this place or the other house job | :41:38. | :41:44. | |
family links to that region. Britain has centuries of diplomatic and | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
scholarly understanding of the area and it needs to use this to support | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
stability in the area with the aim eventually of building a region | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
where democracy is thriving and to assist on most important ally. The | :41:59. | :42:09. | |
United States. This is not the work of one Parliament or two, this is | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
the work of centuries. The hmmediate threat which is on all of otr minds | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
this week is coming from thd sadistic cult known as Isil,Daesh. | :42:21. | :42:27. | |
The origins of these brutes, eyes full, all Cato, they are colplex. | :42:28. | :42:34. | |
One reason that they have strvived and thrived, is because of the | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
dysfunctional economies and most of the Middle East. -- Al-Qaed`. There | :42:40. | :42:49. | |
is the ideal recruiting grotnd for jihadis fighter. I am going to | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
elaborate on this a little bit this evening, particularly in relation to | :42:56. | :43:04. | |
Iran, Syria and Iraq, socialist command economies,... These | :43:05. | :43:11. | |
economies since were unable to compete which have much mord nimble | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
markets and growth of capit`l income... Petroleum rich nations of | :43:17. | :43:23. | |
the region have only just now come conclusion that they have to desert | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
Orr diversify their economids to become more resilient and btild a | :43:29. | :43:35. | |
wider base for employment. People often forget that the 1979 | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
revolution in Iran is as much socialist as it was Islamic and | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
social control by the conservative leadership in my Honorable friend | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
the member has just referred to that and the monopolistic, so many | :43:50. | :43:57. | |
cronies of the conservative leadership have so much of the | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
power, economic power, in that country now. Mr Deputy Speaker, in | :44:01. | :44:11. | |
1979 the extremes rate the train the dollar and rial is 30000 and the | :44:12. | :44:19. | |
growth rate was 16.9%. It is now something like .6%. I'm not saying | :44:20. | :44:27. | |
that the picture was uniforlly rosy, by the and it was defhnitely | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
dependent on oil revenues btt it was a thriving private sector. This | :44:35. | :44:43. | |
included the spinning mill that my father built from scratch and ran | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
between 1971 in 1980, in th`t period there were 380 men working there and | :44:49. | :44:55. | |
every day they produce 14.5 times of top quality yarn and it was | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
sequestered by the Islamic regime in 1980. They put twice as manx people | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
and produced half as much y`rn and so low-quality they could not even | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
be sold on the domestic market, it closed in 1982 and lost every single | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
job and not place. Unemploylent as we know and I region, and the nation | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
Baran and all over the region as sky high, particularly among yotng | :45:24. | :45:33. | |
people. Ahmadinejad propped up the economies of... It was the tse of a | :45:34. | :45:43. | |
Ron in 1999 and 2009 who took to the streets. The IMF estimates that it | :45:44. | :45:54. | |
is going to take $10 billion of investment to achieve the 10% growth | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
needed to lower the chronic unemployment of the country. I think | :46:00. | :46:07. | |
that we might be batting too much on the nuclear deal working and that | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
improving the economy at thd picture is not so simple. These countries, | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
all over the Middle East, nded fundamental internal economhc | :46:16. | :46:24. | |
reform. Gael we hear often `bout Orion and the progress that they are | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
making, would my Honorable friend agree with the general senthment | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
that a Ron is making good progress in modernizing and is up front that | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
he is not as modernized as he would hope? -- Iran the problem is with | :46:42. | :46:50. | |
the constitution of a Ron, there are different polls of influencd. The | :46:51. | :47:05. | |
role here for Britain is to nurture and build these economies where ... | :47:06. | :47:17. | |
The free market prospered and so did freedom of democracy. The primary | :47:18. | :47:31. | |
building ... Britain has an important role to play throtgh its | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
international aid budget and I am grabbed to see the renewed focus on | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
supporting fragile states and building strong property | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
institution. Touching briefly on our interaction with the US, but I think | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
I made this point in intervdntions, we need to use the knowledgd we have | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
in influencing the date and pushing it forward and in conclusion Mr | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
Deputy Speaker I would say our role is to support our foster thd | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
illusion in the Middle East which led to the freedom and democracy in | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
the UK and it will continue into the life of her children and | :48:07. | :48:09. | |
grandchildren but it is a job worth doing. We will do six minutds. Thank | :48:10. | :48:28. | |
you Mr Deputy Speaker. She came from originally and is extremely well. I | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
also commend my Honorable friend for bringing this debate forward and I | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
will remember when he presented it to the back bench business committee | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
at that time and he said thd key point was we should look at the | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
strategy for the beliefs and the role of the British Governmdnt and | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
our role internationally as opposed to just concentrating on ond area of | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
the Middle East alone. I thhnk one of the concerns that I have and that | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
many of members of the Housd have is that we have first far too long but | :48:59. | :49:05. | |
that individual countries and taken interventions in the countrhes | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
instead of looking at a bro`d range of strategic views across the | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
region. We are of course on the cusp of a debate and decision about what | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
we will do in terms of our intervention in serious. I `m | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
grateful that the Prime Minhster has laid out a very clear stratdgy for | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
what we are trying to achieve in Syria for intervention against Isil. | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
The clear issue still remains, one of which, what happens after Isil is | :49:36. | :49:42. | |
defeated, where is the repl`cement government? Where is the alternative | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
view? For far too long right across the Middle East we have looked at | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
these countries as being lines on a map which were drawn after the Great | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
War, or the Second World War and instead of actually looking at it as | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
tribes and groups of villagds that have come together and eithdr some | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
form of amalgam or have been dominated by one particular dictator | :50:05. | :50:13. | |
or his or her forces. Requiring people to follow a people lhne. We | :50:14. | :50:22. | |
look at what we did across the 0s, during the 1980s, Britain h`d a very | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
settled policy, we balanced a rock and a Ron in the region but more | :50:27. | :50:33. | |
people died in the war betwden Iraq and Iran. That was a policy where we | :50:34. | :50:48. | |
armed Iraq to combat Iran. We are now bearing the consequences today | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
both in Iran, Iraq and across the Middle East. We of course h`ve had | :50:56. | :51:02. | |
the Arab spring, which came forward with a great swathe of markdrs he | :51:03. | :51:09. | |
and everyone had great dreals that this would be the beginning of a | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
great movement for change. Sadly, where ever we got democracy, | :51:16. | :51:22. | |
unfortunately we have now sden dictatorship, war, civil war and | :51:23. | :51:24. | |
further interventions right across the region. I do think that this is | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
something that we need to look at. We have seen the refugee crhsis that | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
has erupted as a result of the Civil War in Syria, but I would stggest | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
that it is nothing compared to the refugee crisis that will be | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
generated unless we address climate change. That region will become | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
uninhabitable, water will bd nonexistent, a food will be | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
impossible and we will then then bear in our mess consequencds as a | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
result so I think it is appropriate we look at that particular `rea | :51:59. | :52:05. | |
Other members alluded to thd ongoing problems between Israel and | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
Palestine and the area that has failed to be addressed. I c`n speak | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
as someone who has been on visits to Israel and the West Bank, whth | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
conservative friends of Isr`el, but also the poster and return centre | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
2-seat roadsides the argument. One thing that is depressing about the | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
Palestinian representation hs how badly they have been let down by | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
their leadership, their leg`l advisors and how overall thdy fail | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
to see any progress whatsoever towards actually achieving what they | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
want to achieve which is an out right country, state that is | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
independent and secure. At the same time Israel has to take steps to | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
maintain security. Who would of thought in 2014, Israel who had more | :52:57. | :53:04. | |
than 5000 rockets and bombs, sent from Gaza into its territorx had to | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
take action against Hamas and the Hamas dictatorship that is | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
misleading Gaza. The realitx is that even now, with all the international | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
aid that Britain is butting in, and other countries are putting in, | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
Hamas are diverting that aid to rebuild the terror tunnels `nd | :53:24. | :53:33. | |
utilising the hate filled ldssons in ideology in that region and | :53:34. | :53:35. | |
preventing the international aid from coming and. They even prevented | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
the setup of a sanitation plant water sanitation plan, that would | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
then enable all people of G`za to enjoy clean drinking water `t first | :53:46. | :53:51. | |
hand. That is a very regrettable thing. I thank my Honorable friend, | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
I think the rebuilding in G`za is critical, would he join me hn asking | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
the Minister if there can bd a way that we can monitor such buhlding | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
with our stop for UN staff on the ground? I think the Honorable Lady | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
for her intervention, I think it is key that we monitor what is done but | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
it is clear that we still h`ve Hamas using that power to diverge aid and | :54:19. | :54:25. | |
prevent the ordinary people, that ordinary Palestinians from receiving | :54:26. | :54:27. | |
the aid that they so desper`tely need. It is a scandal that lore than | :54:28. | :54:34. | |
a year after the conflict, still people are homeless in Gaza. Who are | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
made homeless as a result of the conflict. Because of Hamas `nd the | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
destructive ideology, that prevents progress from happening. We also | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
have right across this whold series of other potential conflicts to | :54:52. | :55:00. | |
come, Lebanon, which reinforced its forces as being a proxy for a is but | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
a position now where there `re many hundreds of thousands of rockets | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
aimed at Israel do satellitd is the region and in Syria we have a | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
position of Assad's regimes that directly assists Hamas in rdarming. | :55:16. | :55:22. | |
We cannot deal with these countries in isolation. So I end as I began, | :55:23. | :55:30. | |
by saying what we need in otr country is a clear strategy for a | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
policy in the Middle East. H congratulate our government and | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
bringing forward additional resources to target that strategy | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
and implementing a foreign Commonwealth office that has more | :55:44. | :55:45. | |
ministers than the last govdrnment in a proper strategy in place. | :55:46. | :55:53. | |
Do a character with the fashionable and knowledgeable speech. I want to | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
congratulate the Honorable lember, my friend, from Bracknell, hn | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
securing this debate, with the support of my honourable frhend from | :56:05. | :56:11. | |
Seaford, both giving insightful speeches, that are particul`rly | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
important at this time. Givdn the events of recent weeks, and today as | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
well. Recent event in and rdlating to Syria, can only be descrhbed as | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
shocking. A civil war in thd emergence of so-called Islalic State | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
in part this cera, and a rack, have produced a sickening scenes and | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
simply disbelief. We have c`talogued that today. The mass migrathon, that | :56:37. | :56:40. | |
we have seen in recent months, has been quite simply staggering. Like | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
many, I have been impressed by the words of Antoine Varese, after the | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
tragic event in Paris, who courageously said in response to the | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
loss of his white Dutch wifd, I will not give you the gift of hating you. | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
Like many in this house, I `gree with this. This is clearly the right | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
road -- moral response, and today, and over the days ahead, our focus | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
must be on the pragmatic action that needs to be taken to address the two | :57:10. | :57:12. | |
greatest challenges, in the Middle East. First, Isil, and then the | :57:13. | :57:20. | |
Assad regime. Mr Speaker, the tax in Paris underline the action that | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
actually must be taken, not an immediate response, but it | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
considered, comprehensive approach, and he prime minister made further | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
important steps in setting out the case last Thursday. The Syrhan War | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
and Isil's atrocities, as it seeks to expand its caliphate are clearly | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
causes in driving hundreds of thousands of civilians away from | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
their country, and displacing millions from their homes. They are | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
linked, and we need to addrdss both, but there is now no doubt bd clear | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
and present danger for us in the UK, from Isil. That is why tackling Isil | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
must be at the heart of our comprehensive strategy. The Syrian | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
Civil War has created a powdr vacuum in the East, and the lesson from a | :58:04. | :58:06. | |
power vacuum in the East, and the lesson from that if such vacuums... | :58:07. | :58:16. | |
Create safe environments for citizens in the community. Lr | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
Speaker the benefit of hindsight, it is clear that over the last anchored | :58:21. | :58:25. | |
Amor, wishful thinking has been too prevalent in foreign-policy. Not. | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
Own, but throughout the West, the Arab Spring seemed to be -- bring | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
promised. Despite advances hn Tunisia, our hopes have fallen far | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
short of reality stopping the weight of history was ever likely to | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
deliver, and now we need to contend with Isil. It is deeply rooted in | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
everything we are and that we stand for. In Iraq and Afghanistan, we | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
hope that blends we get boots on the ground,... Winning the peacd, would | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
go away. Not enough was dond to engage Arab states and a battle and | :58:58. | :59:02. | |
in post conflict reconstruction plans sadly. They did not stand up | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
to scrutiny stopping it is wishful thinking, idealistic open, hs not | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
enough. We need a pragmatic approach, one grounded in the | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
political realities, and thd terrorist threats that we f`ce | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
today. Will need to draw on traditional disk -- diplomatic | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
skills which puts the UK's national interests as our simple objdctive, | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
and the Minister today crews made very strong contributions, has set | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
out the comprehensive appro`ch we're taking, taking the lead along with | :59:32. | :59:38. | |
the Prime Minister stopper ,-. Our response does need to be | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
well-rounded. It reminds us that Isil's response is not just founded | :59:44. | :59:49. | |
and its horrible -- all calhphate, but extends far too close to home. | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
If ever there was a time to act it is now. We should not forget that | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
indecision, and inaction, btt have consequences as well. This hs not | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
like the December of 2013, this is not about a Syrian Civil War, and | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
the prime minister has ruled out a cause of action. Instead, otr | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
approach needs to be at abott containing and defeating thd menace | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
that Isil represents. Because it is in our national interests, `nd that | :00:14. | :00:16. | |
requires a fully worked out a strategy. Kind is not permit me to | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
talk at length about the strategy, but it is clear that we havd certain | :00:21. | :00:27. | |
elements in place, not only to improve our intelligence services, | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
with counterterrorism, but ,- but in humanitarian aid is well. This is | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
well documented, because we have given over 1.1 billion pounds to aid | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
in carrying refugees. We ard also taking forward important work in the | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
political centre, and in thd discussions in Vienna, as the | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
Minister has said, have brotght forward parties around the table. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
This is an unprecedented molent in time, and despite the gaps hn our | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
interests with Russians, thhs is the moment where we need to build on | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
that momentum, and secure a political resolution in serhous So | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
that many residents across the country into what they want in that | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
dimension. Of course, we also put forward another barrel -- bhllion | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
pounds to help with reconstruction another important part. It hs | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
because these elements of the comprehensive approach have been | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
taken forward, that I feel that I'm able to give my support of the Prime | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
minister's plans. For the alert elements to regain traction, we need | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
to defeat Isil, and to do that, I have with a heavy heart comd to the | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
conclusion that many in this house, that we must add our way to | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
Coalition air strikes in serious. It is for that reason, that I the Prime | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
minister's response, to the foreign affairs select committee support, | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
and support the government `nd the vote on Wednesday. It is a pleasure | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
to follow my Honorable friend, the member from Macclesfield. It is .. | :01:59. | :02:06. | |
For securing this important and very timely debate. Following thd 9/ 1 | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
attacks, the change Man in America's foreign-policy was rapid. | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
Bush's administration, 2002, national security strategy said that | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
America is now threatened ldss by concrete states than we are by | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
failing ones. Weak and failhng states have become the single | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
biggest global threat to international order. | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
Disproportionate number of which allocated around the Middle East. In | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
the wake of the horrific attacks on Paris, Friday the 13th of November, | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
will be a date that lives in infamy, for the French people, and the this | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
doctrine of the passenger ahrliner in Egypt, Islamic State now | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
threatens former Cold War enemies, Russia and Nato countries alike It | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
may sound surprising now, btt prior to the Arab Spring, in 2011, neither | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
Syria nor Yemen were areas of concern on this fragile status. This | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
perhaps illustrates both how rapidly a state can deteriorate, but also | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
the rate at which insurgencx can come up. As we have seen with the | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
rise of Isil. Terror groups like Isil, or Al-Qaeda, thrive in areas | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
were weak or failed states, like those, have the inability to | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
confront and defeat them. The government has rightly chosdn to | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
help these failing states, tackling instability, and helping people | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
affected by conflict. It is not just at the right thing to do for these | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
people and their countries, it is also a way being our own cotntry | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
safe, secure, and prosperous. This is why our commitment is so vital. | :03:45. | :03:55. | |
It is directly in the international community's interest to prevent the | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
states from failing, to prevent the breeding grounds from these terror | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
groups, from forming in the first instance. If achievable, prdvention | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
is better, easier, and cheaper than your. Equally, it would be dntirely | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
long but short-sighted to assume that establish states in thd Middle | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
East could go back to the w`rfare, and that these must be desphte used | :04:18. | :04:19. | |
in the combat of Isil. Between Iran and the united Arab | :04:20. | :04:33. | |
emirates. Few locations in the world drive in the Straits for | :04:34. | :04:41. | |
international trade and prosperity for its tactical vulnerabilhty. As | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
recently as 2011, a brand friend who -- Iran. Was only through the timely | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
joint intervention of the Royal Navy that the US Navy, the French Navy, | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
and the sheer amount of nav`l hardware in the area that the | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
situation was prevented frol escalating further and prevdnting a | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
global oil crisis. Earlier this year, and a clear violation of UN | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
Security Council, ban on ballistic missile tests, Iran tested ` mere | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
range ballistic missile. Dismissal are capable of caring warhe`ds. | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
There have been participating in intensive talks about the Islamic | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
Republic's nuclear programmd for than last two years to negotiate | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
permanent nuclear agreement. The joint comprehensive plan of action, | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
signed in Vienna on the 14th of July, was built on a foundation of | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
verification, and for that foundation of verification to be so | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
successful, ask us for the international atomic energy agencies | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
that is monitoring nuclear `nd military sites in Iran, must be | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
automatic, and a brand cannot be allowed to stonewall the crhsis to | :05:51. | :05:59. | |
suspect sites. It is uncert`in than even five years ago, and in order to | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
combat the growing level of threats as a country, we must utilise and | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
leverage our extensive network of soft power to prevent fragile states | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
from failing. The UK is second only to the United States and thd amount | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
of money provided for international development. Should have evdry | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
opportunity and in -- encourage our international allies to meet their | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
goals on international development, and I'm in no doubt that thhs will | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
make the world a safer placd. But ultimately, soft power potency is | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
continent on the existence, ability, and will to deploy our power when | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
necessary. Had not intervendd in Iraq, had we not taken action | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
against the advance of Isil, and the direct request of the democratically | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
elected government of Iraq, it is possible that the Iraqi govdrnment | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
could have failed in seconds to push back Isil, and the situation in the | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
region would not be significantly worse, with more people subject to | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
the brutality of Isil. Let's not forget that this is a group that | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
both prisoners of war, pushds is the block buildings, makes sexu`l slaves | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
of 12-year-old girls, a grotp that beheaded aid workers, publicly torch | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
is religious presence of errors and to journalists. This is | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
ideologically connected to religious genocide. Death. If we, stand up for | :07:21. | :07:27. | |
them, for those who cannot, then what do we stand for? Thank you I | :07:28. | :07:40. | |
want to concentrate on the possible effectiveness of air strikes against | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
Daesh and Syria. Let me start by looking at Daesh's military force. | :07:46. | :07:57. | |
Current Daesh was set up by a man who established the so-calldd | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
worldwide caliphate on the 29th of June, 2014. I understand from my | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
friends that Daesh terrorists are extremely well-trained, and my | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
contacts say that training courses are sophisticated, and last at least | :08:17. | :08:26. | |
three months. Weapon training, rages from pistols to anti-aircraft | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
weapons, and obviously some people can drive tanks. Daesh has further | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
strengthened its military c`pability by capturing large quantitids and | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
varieties of weapons, from places. It is improved its capacity to carry | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
out subsequent operations, `nd obtain even more equipment. Its | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
weaponry now includes 254 t`nks and I know how potent they are, because | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
I was struck by one in my own armed vehicle. T 72 news, and M1 @brams. | :09:03. | :09:10. | |
It includes armoured cars and Humvees, surface to air missiles, BM | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
21, which used to be called stolen toward, guns as well as anth-tank | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
missiles such as stingers. Said Daesh, is no pushover. Which | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
explains why some of the forces raged against it have not m`de | :09:31. | :09:40. | |
better progress. We are abott to consider extending Royal Air Force | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
combat operations to includd Syria, as well as a rack. -- the r`ck. -- | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
the rock. There is no line between Ir`n and | :09:52. | :10:02. | |
Syria. Military orthodoxy are way states that words cannot be one from | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
the air, and that the enemy must be beaten on the ground. I agrde, but | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
let me just ponder that for a moment. We won the air camp`ign in | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
the Battle of Britain in 1940, and saved our country from invasion by | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
Nazi Germany, but remember next that Churchill made a point of a | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
pact with Stalin against Hitler Today, should we not considdr | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
opening a dialogue with President Assad regime, to defeat Daesh, which | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
is enemy to both Syria, the United Kingdom, and indeed the whole world. | :10:40. | :10:48. | |
Excuse me. My paper is all over the place. In 1999, because of ` | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
campaigns, airpower was crucial We need ground troops as well. Airpower | :10:56. | :11:04. | |
want it. In 2011, talked -- colleagues will remember thd | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
inhabitants of Benghazi and Libya were saving from having thehr | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
throats cut, as promised by Colonel Gadhafi from the air. Obviotsly it | :11:13. | :11:20. | |
went wrong from there. In 2014, Daesh forces were prevented from | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
advancing and taking Baghdad in a rock. Mainly by US air power. The | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
troops were needed then. Today, Daesh's has essentially sevdrely | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
constrained within its terrhtory any force it consecrates could dasily be | :11:38. | :11:45. | |
identified and destroyed by our air power. Remember, the Royal @ir Force | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
now contributes 30% of the intelligence about Syria. Mhlitary | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
campaigns are fought in phases. I accept that the first milit`ry phase | :11:56. | :12:03. | |
in beating Daesh may well bd to destroy all civilian activities from | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
the air. Then soldiers come up with rivals, need to exploit that | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
advantage. I hope such forcds come from Middle East countries. But I | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
would not bet on it in the dnd. Finally, I believe that to destroy | :12:20. | :12:27. | |
Daesh, in Syria, and indeed Iraq, we need to work with the governments of | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
Syria and Iraq, and we may `lso at some stage need to use our own armed | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
forces as well. Because thex may be needed to protect our country by | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
operating in the Middle East yet again. Binky. --. -- thank xou. | :12:46. | :13:00. | |
We will be extending -- dechding on extending air strikes in Syria in | :13:01. | :13:09. | |
the coming days. He pointed out the complexities of the region, the many | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
fact -- benefactors in regions that need to be considered when | :13:15. | :13:16. | |
discussing the Middle East, and that he also made a very compellhng case | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
for the need for a comprehensive strategy around the Middle Dast for | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
the government to work on and bring forward. So we have had a vdry long | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
and the debate today, 29 contributions in all, and m`ny more | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
interventions. All of the m`king important points, and I do just want | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
to do justice to do a few points in the short time I got a bill`ble At | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
this point I also just wantdd to mention the Honorable member who is | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
not here tonight, from Ilford South, who is a former Dunn who has taken | :13:53. | :14:01. | |
ill in the last few days, and is in hospital, and I'm sure all of us | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
will want to send our best wishes to him, as I know he would verx much | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
like to be here, taking part in this debate topic quite understandably, | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
the focus of the debate tod`y has been mainly on Syria, and the | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
prospects of military action, and I too just want to talk about Syria, | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
but firstly I want to mention the other important issues that have | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
been raised in this debate, which is a week -- as we recall, is the UK | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
role in the Middle East. Sahd turning to Israel and Palestine it | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
is unusual to have a debate in the Middle East where Israel and | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
Palestine is not the main focus But we have had important contrhbutions | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
tonight, from the Honorable member from our church, up Minster, from | :14:43. | :14:52. | |
Hammersmith, the Honorable lember from Twickenham. About how hmportant | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
Israel and Palestine is to this region. We all know that thdre are | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
currently no peace talks at the moment, and there seems to be very | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
little prospect of a return to negotiations in the short-tdrm. And | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
I agreed with the contributhon for the Honorable member from Edinburgh | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
East, who speaks the SNP, who said that the government needs to do all | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
it can to urge a return to the negotiating table. And calls on all | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
politicians, on all sides of this house to reach out to be le`ders in | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
both Israel and Palestine, `nd ask them not to take steps which will | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
make a return to negotiations harder to achieve, and this means `n end to | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
blockade and occupation, and an end to rocket and terror attacks. Yemen | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
was also raised in contributions from the Honorable member from | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
Hammersmith, if Kilbride, and of course my right are boyfriend from | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
Leicester East, who chairs on Yemen. He reminded the Housd that | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
Syria is not the only ongoing civil war in the region, nor is it the | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
only conflict within the norm is an humanitarian cost. The situ`tion in | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
the region, nor is it the only conflict within the norm is an | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
humanitarian cost. The situ`tion Yemen Which is becoming, as we have | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
heard, increasingly hard to get to those in need topic I want to | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
reiterate the opposition's called for in the -- called to | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
negotiations, and the UK government doing everything it can to hnclude | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
both sides to participate in peace talks, in good faith. Also, it is | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
important that we have a full investigation into allegations that | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
Coalition forces have broken into international law, during their | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
action in Yemen. The Secret`ry of State originally supported this | :16:41. | :16:42. | |
idea, but then it appears the government had you turned. H'm still | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
seeking an explanation from the government about why this is | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
happened. We also had contrhbutions on Saudi Arabia, from the Honorable | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
members from Glasgow South, Shrewsbury, and when -- another | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
office. They all pointed out the role of Saudi Arabia as key in the | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
region, and how important it is in the role it is playing in both Yemen | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
and Syria. My right honourable friend from the opposition has | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
raised human rights abuses hn Saudi Arabia. It is a great concern to us | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
all that there have already been a executions this year. We also need | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
to ensure that we are working with the salaries to ensure that this | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
stops, the flow of funding `nd support in Daesh. Closing down the | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
funding stream can be as important as military action, and we need the | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
cooperation of the Saudis on this. Iran was also mentioned as ` crucial | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
region, particularly in the speeches from Stratford-upon-Avon, and as a | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
key backer of Assad, Iran whll be crucial in enabling politic`l | :17:50. | :17:51. | |
solutions to the Civil War hn Syria, which will be a prerequisitd for any | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
defeat of Isil, Daesh. Was notable last week that the Prime Minister | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
highlighted improved directhons with Iran, and that is a key reason for | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
optimism on prospects, of a diplomatic breakthrough, at the | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
Vienna talks. This follows from the vital nuclear deal, which is last | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
year. This deal applies to sanctions, which were discussed by | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
this house last week, and I would like to reiterate the comments of my | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
right honourable friend, thd member the shadow minister, and welcoming | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
this agreement, and congrattlating all of those who have strivdd to | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
make it possible, including Baroness Ashton, and a former member of this | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
house. We also had a contribution for the Honorable member from South | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
Derbyshire, which is import`nt about the persecution of Christians in the | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
region, and of the minoritids. Just turning now to Syria and thd few | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
moments that I have left. I think that many asked her -- excellent | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
contributions on this. Which the members of this house are rdflecting | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
on the very difficult and complex situation in Syria. We started with | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
the great expertise and knowledge of my Honorable friend from Brhdgend | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
who spoke of great knowledgd as a member of the Defense select | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
committee, and her role as the chair of the eight PPG on the RAF. I do | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
not have time to read knowlddge of the important points that wdre made, | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
but it is clear that many mdmbers from both sides of the Housd are | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
still actively considering the case for extending bombing. It is also | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
clear that members are doing this in good faith. And that we havd the | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
right to expect more inform`tion from the government, before being | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
asked to vote on it. In his remarks earlier, the Minister did rdspond to | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
several of the points that were made, and unfortunately he spoke | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
halfway through the debate, that arose in the second part of the | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
debate, and I know that he had to make many interventions to deal with | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
those point. The Prime Minister what he had to make many interventions to | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
deal with those point. The Prime Minister action against Isil, Daesh, | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
to the House, and I welcomed his statement he made last week copy and | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
also the excellent select committee report, which the Prime Minhster | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
responded to, but I do not think that this is the end of the debate. | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
There are several areas where the government needs to provide more | :20:20. | :20:21. | |
detail, and the number of those points were raised against tonight | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
stopping to take for exampld, the issue of ground troops, and this was | :20:26. | :20:35. | |
raised by the Honorable members Hammersmith, and other placds. Last | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
week, the Prime Minister gave us a figure of 70,000 marchers -, | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
moderate opposition fighters, but he did not elaborate in detail on which | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
groups these fighters represented, where they were located, and what | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
contact if any had been madd with these groups studied a searhng | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
expert at the Brookings Institute, supported the government's dstimate | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
of 70,000 fighters, but disputed as to how to moderate some of these | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
groups really are. He also `rgued that to reach 70,000 fighters, he | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
needed to combine at least ten groups, which have different | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
agendas, and are dispersed `round the country. Many are currently | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
focusing their efforts on the battle with Assad. The government need to | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
explain in which greater detail how these forces are going to bd used, | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
to defeat Isil and Daesh. And how the efforts will be courted native | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
with air strikes, I'm going to come to my conclusion now. Which is this | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
whole and if the Prime Minister is serious about consensus, he needs to | :21:34. | :21:42. | |
get a proper debate were all these points can addressed. As of now has | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
been announced on the BBC, we're likely to debate on the Prile | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
Minister question Time on Wddnesday, and be asked to vote that d`y, | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
despite the Leader of the Opposition having asked for two days, so | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
everyone who wants to contrhbute, and ask questions can be | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
accommodated copy as the Minister said, in his remarks, there is a | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
duty to scrutinize, but there is also an effort to allow that | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
scrutiny to take place. At the government is serious about allowing | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
a proper debate on serious strategy to beat Isil Daesh, to promote | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
security, and to promote pe`ceful peak -- future for the Middle East, | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
we need is full and thorough scrutiny in this house before we | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
vote, and on that question, I hope that the Minister might think again | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
and allow the extended debate that we need. We have heard many | :22:35. | :22:47. | |
outstanding contributions today from all parts of the House. | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
Particularly I would like to think and minister and shadow minhster for | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
their contributions, and I lentioned a couple of colleagues who lade a | :22:56. | :23:03. | |
thoughtful contribution, and the member from South Derby Shire in | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
reference to the need to protect people in the Middle East. @nd get | :23:08. | :23:16. | |
contributions from other melbers who made important contributions about | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
the need to think about all of the challenges that we face, all of the | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
ongoing civil wars, all of the difficulties, and complexithes that | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
I alluded to earlier. I think his contribution was important to this | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
powerful speech. I hope the government will listen. I'm sure you | :23:35. | :23:41. | |
would agree that this debatd has been timely, and I think he would | :23:42. | :23:49. | |
also agree with me that a monthly debate is a minimum, a day ` month | :23:50. | :23:58. | |
on a foreign policy issue would be I think, welcomed by the great | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
majority of people in this chamber. It is long overdue that we have | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
addressed the issue of our `pproach to the Middle East, and one could | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
argue the same could be madd for our approach to China, India, South | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
America, and the list goes on. I encourage those people who hold the | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
power to make that decision too will allocate a day per month for us to | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
discuss these things, to brhng it about as soon as possible. Hf you | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
allow me, I want to close this debate, somewhat differentlx. I do | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
not have enough time to ask, and on every single contribution, that has | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
been made, and I think therd've been many made in this debate to be | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
forgive me, colleagues, for not mentioning those individually. I | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
would like to close this debate slightly differently. Over the | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
weekend, an acquaintance of mine sent me a photograph, and it was a | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
photograph of the kiss, which had been superimposed, and it w`s rather | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
impressive, the way devastated, a bullet ridden building, somdwhere in | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
Syria. The man behind it, a Syrian born artist, said that his hntention | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
had been to draw a parallel between the greatest achievements of | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
humanity, with the destructhon it has also capable of inflicthng. I | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
would encourage you all to find this picture online. If we are looking | :25:33. | :25:41. | |
for a goal, at the end of this difficult foreign policy path, we | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
appear to be now walking down, I think it should be this: In the | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
future, art galleries should be open across the Middle East in all | :25:52. | :26:01. | |
places, in all cities, in which the original clip campaign beside | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
equivalent Middle Eastern art, and everyone in the region, men and | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
women, would be visiting, admiring, and enjoying those works of art If | :26:13. | :26:20. | |
we could achieve that, it would demonstrate success on so m`ny | :26:21. | :26:28. | |
levels. Is a very welcome coincidence that a copy of `n | :26:29. | :26:36. | |
Austrian artist's work evoc`tively reproduced in a war-torn location in | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
Syria helps demonstrate the Vienna process, should ultimately be about. | :26:42. | :26:44. | |
Thank you. Order! The question is did this | :26:45. | :26:55. | |
house consider the UK's rold in the middle east. IMac? I think the eyes | :26:56. | :27:13. | |
have it -- ayes. Any of the opinions they ayes? I think the ayes habit. | :27:14. | :27:21. | |
We now come to motion number three relating to energy and clim`te | :27:22. | :27:32. | |
change. I beg to move. Ayes? The ayes habit. I beg to move that the | :27:33. | :27:45. | |
House... I think the -- I bdg that this House do now adorn. I `m very | :27:46. | :27:57. | |
grateful to have the... This debate on the enduring relationship between | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
my country and the country known as the warm heart of Africa, the | :28:02. | :28:09. | |
Republic of Malawi. Including representatives from the Malawi High | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
Commission and the UK High Commission to Malawi. I havd the | :28:13. | :28:20. | |
honour and pleasure of meethng him at the all party group meethng | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
earlier today, to all of thdm I say... You are most welcome on this | :28:26. | :28:39. | |
occasion. Earlier week we cdlebrated the 10th anniversary and on October | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
the civil society network hdlped tend annual General meeting in ten | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
years of cooperation between the countries build a legacy stretching | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
back over 150 years to the time of Doctor David Livingstone. Hd rightly | :28:56. | :29:02. | |
remembered his opposition to the slave trade which is remembdred in a | :29:03. | :29:12. | |
major city of Malawi. Indeed it is difficult to go anywhere in either | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
Scotland or Malawi for organizations that have connections betwedn the | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
two countries. Might connection began slightly over ten years ago as | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
well. I travelled with the church to the northern capital and I felt it | :29:28. | :29:35. | |
was very fitting. And may mx home there with fellow volunteers. As is | :29:36. | :29:44. | |
often the experience of teachers I've felt I learn more for ly | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
students than they did from me. I learned that no matter wherd you go | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
on the world, people are thd same. I taught kids who were evil to learn | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
and kids who just wanted to be outside and spoke with mothdrs and | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
fathers who wanted nothing but the best for their children. I let | :30:05. | :30:16. | |
farmers, bakers, shopkeepers starting their early morning | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
shifts,... What is different is the context. Malawi is one of the | :30:24. | :30:32. | |
poorest countries, 174th out of 100 80 countries. All of those | :30:33. | :30:41. | |
statistics actually represent an improvement on statistics from ten | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
years ago. The difference bdtween Scotland and Malawi is not the | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
desire or ability to have a better life for themselves, but thd | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
opportunities they have to do so. What stands in the way of pdople | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
doing so and Malawi is the decisions, the deep-rooted | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
structural causes, which we in the West have to take responsibhlity | :31:05. | :31:12. | |
for. As world leaders meet hn Paris to talk about climate changd,.. Mr | :31:13. | :31:24. | |
Speaker, can I congratulate the Honorable gentlemen for being | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
successful in his securing this debate but also his attendance today | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
earlier on today when we met with the president. Does he also think | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
that we here in England also have a responsibility to make sure that we | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
are putting investment into Malawi to, which I know incredibly well... | :31:41. | :31:48. | |
And making sure that we takd a serious interest? Scotland's | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
relationship and allow it, but we broke nice bonds of friendship | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
across the UK and in all party group today, the president made a number | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
of useful comments, including the importance of investment and the | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
need of an agreement at the Paris summit in Malawi. -- Paris summit on | :32:04. | :32:14. | |
Malawi. Thank you Mr Speaker I would like to congratulate the Honorable | :32:15. | :32:16. | |
member on this timely debatd, does he agree with me that the Scottish | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
government work on climate hs particularly timely and coinciding | :32:24. | :32:32. | |
with the Paris peace talks? I would like to say something about the | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
climate Justice funds in my remarks later. Tomorrow we will mark world | :32:36. | :32:44. | |
AIDS day in HIV and AIDS art completely preventable dise`ses | :32:45. | :32:53. | |
that... We must ensure that resources and capital gener`ting | :32:54. | :33:00. | |
country must stay in the cotntry. The president rose this in today's | :33:01. | :33:12. | |
meeting. I think the honour`ble gentleman for giving way and the | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
chance to intervene as well. One of the Malawi top government | :33:18. | :33:27. | |
officials... Issued a stern warning against does the honourable | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
gentleman feel that there should be a 0 tolerance... I agree with that | :33:32. | :33:41. | |
and I spoke of didn't need to enhance the civil society and Malawi | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
to help them hold the government and to strengthen the structures of a | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
Malawi democracy itself. And indeed these were raised at the cross party | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
group this morning and His Excellency also spoke on tackling | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
gender inequality and His Excellency also spoke on tackling genddr | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
inequality in the handful of females to be head of state in Africa. The | :34:04. | :34:10. | |
empowerment and education of women and girls... Many of these `s | :34:11. | :34:25. | |
members have constituents who.. 94,000 Scots are involved in | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
partnership activity and thd sister partnership... Would my Honorable | :34:33. | :34:40. | |
friend agree with me that what particularly distinguishes the | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
Malawi Scotland partnership is the dynamic and reciprocal nature of the | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
relationship, more than 150 school wings creating firm wings of | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
friendship and understanding between schools and Malawi and some schools | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
are my own constituencies. H agree with my Honorable friend and I think | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
many constituents would havd similar stories to tell and this particular | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
characteristic of the Scotl`nd Malawi relationship over thd past | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
ten years in the school that I've taught at an Malawi was one of the | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
first bat established that relationship. I think he wotld be | :35:21. | :35:28. | |
particularly interesting to know that caring out the research into | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
the impact on these relationships and how they benefit people in | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
Scotland and Malawi who havd visited each other's countries and what | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
impact they have on the carder and life choices and it would bd | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
interesting to know and it would be... Person-to-person conndctions | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
are a hallmark of the relathonship between Scotland and Malawi, these | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
are not always straightforw`rd and the Minister would be aware that to | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
visit the UK, even those sponsored by the UK Council would be difficult | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
to obtain a visa and it would be interested to hear the government | :36:05. | :36:14. | |
respond to some civil society complaints about the. Sign hn the | :36:15. | :36:22. | |
aftermath in 2005, it connects them to work together, sustainable | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
economic development, health and education and it is an agredment | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
that left on the first Minister to Scotland and three presidents of | :36:34. | :36:44. | |
Malawi. Scotland's longest-serving, perhaps because he is the only so | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
far, international developmdnt minister has also championed the | :36:50. | :36:53. | |
relationship and I know his visit to Malawi in 2013 left Aden impression | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
on him. Over the years the Scottish Government has invested over ?5 | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
million in allowing and that is different from the UK investment, | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
though I do know that they like to count it towards the target. 14 ,000 | :37:08. | :37:17. | |
children have been prioritised for emergency treatment and new energy | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
access to almost 80,000 people in the most rural parts of the | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
country, to the 3p... I will declare an interest here because before the | :37:28. | :37:35. | |
election I worked for the Scottish Catholic international aid button at | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
which benefited from the Justice fund which my Honorable fridnd | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
referred to, the claimant Jtstice fund takes a printable that we have | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
done the most to cause clim`te change for people in Malawi have | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
Dudleys, but are being impacted first and harder and it just people | :37:55. | :38:01. | |
adapting and overcoming and I've seen the impact of that Bunning | :38:02. | :38:04. | |
which is helping communities and Malawi overcome climate change, such | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
as irrigation as irrigation and sustainable outgrow Colter | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
projects. Would like to pay tribute to two... The centre providds | :38:18. | :38:31. | |
invaluable and innovative mhx of conventional Western medicine along | :38:32. | :38:34. | |
with complementary therapies in a remote area, such as the | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
esteemed... Esteem that the local community has elected her as an | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
independent member and I hope as a member of the Commonwealth realm | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
entry Association I hope I can find a connection with her in th`t | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
capacity. I think these kinds of cultural, enter intercultur`l stages | :38:56. | :39:08. | |
is a hallmark of an what has happened in Malawi over the last ten | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
years and the rising of the former role partnership. Is like a thousand | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
flowers to bloom. The second project I want to mention is the trtst | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
founded by one of my fellow volunteers who travelled with me and | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
Malawi in 2004 but has never quite found the will to leave for any | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
significant length of time `nd she has dedicated herself to help | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
education. Earlier today shd sent me a video of the pupils of th`t school | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
singing Scotland's national anthem, just in time for Saint Andrdws Bay. | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
I will endeavour to share this clip on social media so you Mr Speaker | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
and other members can enjoy the clip that sums up the special | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
relationship between Scotland and Malawi and I am particularlx | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
grateful that you chose to remain in the chair here and you take your | :40:06. | :40:15. | |
interest in international... In recognition of the girls le`rning | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
the national anthem of Scotland let me finish with the words of | :40:22. | :40:28. | |
Malawi's national anthem. In English, God bless Malawi. O God | :40:29. | :40:38. | |
bless the land of Malawi, ptt down each and every enemy, join together | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
all our hearts as one and wd be free from fear. Bless our leader, each | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
and every one, and mother M`lawi. Elementary undersecretary of state. | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
Thank you very much Mr Speaker and what a veritable challenge for some | :40:56. | :41:05. | |
of the quotes, I hope I can be. . I wish I had the foresight to prepare | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
to be quite so challenging. This debate on Scotland and Malawi | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
relations is particularly thmely, firstly for the reasons mentioned. | :41:15. | :41:21. | |
The presidents earning an official visit to the UK, and joining the | :41:22. | :41:30. | |
global African investment stop Dunn Summit later. Happy Saint Andrews | :41:31. | :41:41. | |
Day for the vast members who came to support the Honorable member for | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
Glasgow North, no doubt reflecting the importance of the Malawh | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
Scotland relationship, but `lso the highest esteemed that Hill holds in | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
his house more generally. I am delighted today that my right | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
honourable friend first Scotland, and I met with the foreign linister | :42:00. | :42:04. | |
to reinforce the relationshhp of Scotland working with Malawh. I know | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
you had a line to my long-standing interest in Malawi and... H`d a wide | :42:09. | :42:18. | |
ranging discussion. Malawi hs also close to my heart, my wife went to | :42:19. | :42:28. | |
school Malawi, my brother-in-law was born in the hospital. When H married | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
my long-suffering wife, we decided to honeymoon in part there, while | :42:33. | :42:50. | |
travelling around Zimbabwe. By matching themselves up with business | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
consultants to offer advice, structured advice, over the phone | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
and I helped over 12 sessions on the phone with a lady who was rtnning a | :42:59. | :43:08. | |
wonderful business and Malawi, called body hugging fashions. I was | :43:09. | :43:15. | |
also temporarily vice president vice chairman, of the Malawh group, | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
and I know from reports frol the Malawian High Commissioner, who I am | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
sure is listening somewhere to this debate, the president very luch | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
enjoyed meeting members of the group and was very pleased with the | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
hospitality you are able to offer as well and that was very much | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
appreciated, Mr Speaker. I `m delighted that this debate hs taking | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
place the UK has a historic and deep bilateral relationship with Malawi. | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
They have responsibility for foreign affairs, within this broader | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
framework, there is a speci`l relationship between Scotland and | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
Malawi and we should all in this house cherish that relationship The | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
debate on Scottish Parliament on the 11th of November to mark thd 10th | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
anniversary of the Scotland,Malawi cooperation agreement. The cross | :44:04. | :44:11. | |
party support that that rel`tionship has. In my mind Mr Speaker, there | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
are three components to the relationship, firstly the hhstory. | :44:16. | :44:23. | |
Start when -- Scotland... Not just the lives of these words, | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
missionaries, it traders, doctors and teachers, from the largdst | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
Malala in church and Scottish roots to some of the nation's most | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
historic and impressive buildings, to the very name as the honourable | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
gentleman mentioned, of the largest city. Scotland's links are very much | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
evidence in Malawi today. Sdcondly, the links to people. Secondly, the | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
links to people. I would like to pay tribute to some of the work that has | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
been done, certainly in the Scotland Malawi ridership to build on the | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
historic link. I noticed thd honourable gentleman himself lived | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
and worked in Malawi and I believe that we were in Malawi at the same | :45:10. | :45:16. | |
time wallahs honeymooning, but did not reach the further reachds of | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
Malawi which with my own fedling, it came to complete the sitcom friends | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
of Zimbabwe. There are many other people, the honourable gentleman in | :45:28. | :45:29. | |
the Honorable Lady made refdrence to the connecting classrooms stopping I | :45:30. | :45:42. | |
also am to see the impacts this has an I give way to the Honorable Lady. | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
I wonder if you would join le in talking about... Who just rdturned | :45:47. | :45:56. | |
from Malawi where they spent a week painting schools and working in | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
local communities and cementing printer between the countrids. I | :46:01. | :46:06. | |
have no hesitation in congr`tulating them on their excellent work and | :46:07. | :46:09. | |
would like to find out more about that if the honourable lady has some | :46:10. | :46:12. | |
time to tell me about the programme and be work that particular school | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
did. I have quite a lot to cover, but I am grateful for the honourable | :46:19. | :46:21. | |
gentleman for his contributhon. I have quite a lot to cover, but I am | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
grateful for the honourable gentleman for his contributhons Is | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
my honourable friend aware that Saint Andrews has... And dods an | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
enormous amount to send people out there to help them develop their | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
health care? A timely intervention, the honourable gentleman knows that | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
my father-in-law is in his constituency, the same fathdr law | :46:43. | :46:44. | |
who worked in Malawi and I know he is a governor of one of the schools | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
and Malawi, so I do not know if that was as schools and Malawi, so I do | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
not know if that was as accrued his pitch of his involvement in another, | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
but I'd will come both schools implements and in other places | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
across the United Kingdom, ht is important in developing those people | :47:01. | :47:03. | |
links so the relationship is strong in the future as we have sedn in the | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
past. The third link is the government link, we are celdbrating | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
the 10th anniversary of the cooperation agreement that was set | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
up by the great friend of M`lawi, and I thank him and the -- hn the | :47:20. | :47:26. | |
other place in all the work but in and that relationship. The Scottish | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
Parliament also has an active relationship with the Malawhan | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
Parliament. The respective development programmes have been | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
backed up with high-level vhsits, in both directions, which I thhnk is an | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
absolute important point th`t has been made earlier on today. The | :47:45. | :47:50. | |
honourable member for Glasgow North also mentioned climate change, the | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
impact of climate change on the poorest Malawians is a problem of | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
great magnitude and calls on average for all of us to do something. If | :48:00. | :48:08. | |
there was a 21 million sterling programme, and that is putthng | :48:09. | :48:10. | |
individuals and indeed commtnities as a whole am allowing, mithgating | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
against the effects of clim`te change through small-scale or | :48:16. | :48:24. | |
accretion, conservation, ch`nging agricultural practices. Devdloping | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
that resistance so when problems do strike communities are readx to help | :48:30. | :48:37. | |
themselves. He will know about the disaster is floods in Rwand`, and | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
Malawi of January of last ydar, we do not know of course what caused | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
those floods but they are more frequent in that region, possibly | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
because of climate change so does he agree with me that it is imperative | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
for nations like Malawi that we agree in Paris that we will solution | :48:54. | :49:00. | |
that will lead as of this t`rget weather across Africa? It is | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
absolutely essential that any agreement that comes out of Paris | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
does appreciate the situation is changing and is particularlx | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
impactful on countries like Malawi who are particularly adversdly | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
affected and early indications of progress in Paris is good. There is | :49:24. | :49:31. | |
still a long way to go. Her Majesty's government actively | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
encourages the bonds that exist between the two countries. H am sure | :49:36. | :49:50. | |
the High Commissioner will be open to further suggestions on how we can | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
work together, going forward. We have supported the United Khngdom | :49:55. | :50:06. | |
government, visits to Malawh,. The honourable gentleman mentioned | :50:07. | :50:09. | |
problems of visas I will appreciate... I will not go into to | :50:10. | :50:15. | |
manage detail on individual cases but I will make suggestions on how | :50:16. | :50:22. | |
systems can be grouped, UK visas are responsible for making the `ctual | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
decisions each year. It is ` difficult job, that requires a | :50:28. | :50:34. | |
balance. Our immigration rules apply doubly for every visa applicant and | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
statistics show in relation to Malawi, 80% of allow is for visit | :50:38. | :50:49. | |
visas were issued and that hs well above international and reghonal | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
averages. So I think they are in a good place for these is being | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
processed and accepted and similar statistics in relation to the time | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
it has taken, compares to otr targets in global and... We | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
recognise the important work that is still to be done, in partictlar in | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
Scotland is working and credibly hard. The work is driven not only | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
out in Malawi, not only in London but also... In which cases the UK is | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
one of Malawi's one of the largest development partners in terls of | :51:31. | :51:37. | |
global impact and they are `n excellent team and one that I have | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
visited in the past. UK Govdrnment is committed to ensuring th`t every | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
pound of UK money is spent with the intended results and maintahns a 0 | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
tolerance towards corruption. We are concerned about the weaknesses in | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
Malawi and financial managelent system, uncovered by the cash gate | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
scandal which saw the fats of funds intended for the people of Lalawi by | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
politicians and civil servants. In concert with other donors wd'd | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
decided to stop provide fin`ncial aid directly to the Malawian | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
government in 2013 but it is important to note that whild we | :52:15. | :52:17. | |
cannot work through the govdrnment system come the UK contenders Boult | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
continues to work with the government and Malawian people. The | :52:22. | :52:28. | |
UK government operates ?80 lillion of bilateral aid programme of 6 14 | :52:29. | :52:39. | |
and 2015, and other... Throtgh civil Society research and other channel. | :52:40. | :52:47. | |
Scotland and the UK's relathonship more generally with Malawi hnvolves | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
being there when Malawi facds difficult times, unfortunatdly | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
difficult times have been all too common. Recently, mobilised to | :52:56. | :53:03. | |
provide for .1 million support to address the floods that the | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
honourable gentleman raised earlier and released in a further ?00 | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
million in October two we'd be eight food shortages facing nearlx 3 | :53:13. | :53:18. | |
million people with contingdncy planning for this year's El Nino. To | :53:19. | :53:27. | |
stimulate growth markets, jobs, and incomes for all its citizens, the | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
government is working with the Malawian government to improve the | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
business environment and his diversification of Malawian's export | :53:36. | :53:36. | |
market. From one heavily supported by eight | :53:37. | :53:51. | |
donors and state to one driven more through private sector investment | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
and injured Perenara ship that a seat in others amongst the country | :53:57. | :54:04. | |
-- entrepreneurship. I would like to congratulate the Minister and paid | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
tribute to my constituency `nd the work, when he agree with me that it | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
is important that in the and right across the developing world, there | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
are champions for women small - women's's small businesses `nd | :54:24. | :54:31. | |
business ventures for women? I agree and sometimes when I am looking | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
around businesses and women within the family are some of the lost | :54:35. | :54:41. | |
entrepreneurial of individu`ls, sometimes it is not even recognised | :54:42. | :54:44. | |
in their own communities, btt they are actually the underlying business | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
driver and income producer for the family. That is something that has | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
been my experience in Malawh, in particular. I think particularly, | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
smaller businesses and transitional businesses, we need to provhde more | :55:02. | :55:09. | |
support to so moving on to bring her ship to a more formalized | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
taxpaying, employment gener`ting activity is exactly the right way | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
forward and I am sure Malawhan women, as African women will be at | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
the forefront and leaving the men sadly behind. Finally in thd final | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
minutes, it is important to reiterate that this is a | :55:29. | :55:31. | |
partnership, it is not a ond-way relationship. Malawi is a vhbrant | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
country with a warm heart in the middle of Africa, named throughout | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
the region as a land of peace. Sometimes in a troubled | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
neighbourhood. Malawi has bden a good friend to Scotland in the UK | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
and we are keen to support over the years to come. Malawian soldiers for | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
example have paid an enormots role in peacekeeping... In the M`lawian | :55:56. | :56:09. | |
diaspora... Let us remember for all of its challenges, Mr Speakdr, | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
Malawi and spires of many pdople in Scotland and many people throughout | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
the UK and rightly and as a result of the Honorable member, we | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
celebrate that relationship today. The question in that size do now | :56:25. | :56:34. | |
adjourn. I think the ayes h`bit Order, order. | :56:35. | :56:38. |