30/11/2015 House of Commons


30/11/2015

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Hello and welcome to BBC Parliament's live coverage from the

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House of Commons and and wh`t is said to be a very busy week. The

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transport secretary will respond to an urgent question on the route and

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station choices for the HS to train mind. After that the health

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secretary will make a statelent on junior doctors contracts. Jtnior

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doctors in England have overwhelmingly voted to go on strike

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in their dispute with ministers over a new contract. MPs will thdn spend

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the rest of the day participating in a back bench business debatd on the

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UK's role in the Middle East. Join me for a round up of the dax in both

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houses of Parliament at 11 o'clock this evening. But first we have

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questions to the education Secretary Nicky Morgan and her team of

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ministers. Orders. Order. As a guest of the

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lawn tennis Association it hs my pleasure and privilege to bd

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resident in Kent to observe the Davis cup final over the wedkend. I

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thought sure the whole Housd will wish to join me in expressing

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congratulations to the victorious British steam. Captained by Leon

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Smith, it featured legendarhly Andy Murray, Jamie Murray, James Ward,

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Carl Edmund, Dan Evans and Dominic Inglot. It was a superb teal at

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third to secure the cup and be the world champions of tennis for the

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first time for Britain sent 193 . How fitting it was that the victory

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was sealed by a performance of both outstanding and majestic. Bx Andy

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Murray. We congratulate each and every one of them. Questions to be

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Secretary of State for Educ`tion. Question one Mr Speaker. Th`nk you

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very much Mr Speaker. Can I first echoed the sentiments just lade on

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behalf of of this side of the House and I am sure for the whole house on

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the Davis cup victory of thd great writ of steam. Abel Grey Tudsday the

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Scots leading the way in ensuring that we had our first great victory

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and I think around about 70 years. Mr Speaker the children famhlies act

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2014 introduced significant reforms to better support children xoung

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people with autism in education and that is rightly focused on needs and

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aspirations enabling all peoples including those with authors and to

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achieve better outcomes in dducation and adult life. The Departmdnt for

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education as also funding the autism education trust to deliver training

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to staff, reduce exclusions and ambitious about autism to stpport

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transition to college. The parameters cool in my consthtuency

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includes a fantastic resource based at 25 children without the six

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pack. Many of them are making excellent rug rats but one of the

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concerns raised is that Austin's published data for the school which

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includes children from the resource base along with other peopld does

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not adequately or flag this. Does the Minister agree that all state

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data should clearly take into account the specific needs `nd

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challenges of children with special educational needs such as attism and

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will be agreed to meet with me to discuss the width of a case of this

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primary school was? I am very happy to meet with them to look at what

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they're doing and be challenges they face in the honourable gentleman's

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constituency. Barely we want to make sure that every child irrespective

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of their needs is getting the best possible education and that is why

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we are bringing and progression mentors throughout the school system

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so that every child's progrdss does count towards that goal's overall

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performance and we're moving towards introducing the first ever

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educational needs inspection Primark to help deal with many of the issues

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but I'm happy to discuss with him further. One of the key challenges

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for those with autism and Asperger's is making the transition between

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leaving school and attending university, a big step for xoung

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adults. Will the Minister join me in welcoming and initiative whhch post

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and annual autism Summit school giving young people of autism

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spectrum disorder at the ch`nce to experience all aspects of university

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and student life and does hd agree this is something that should be

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rolled out around rest of the UK? I am delighted to hear about the great

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work going on in my honourable friend's constituency. I know Bath

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University at a good and proud record get in supporting all

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children and it is important that those who have autism get the same

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opportunity to move onto higher education There are an independent

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institution that would we h`ve done try to bring forward the tile that

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an assessment takes place to ensure that any child with the potdntial to

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go onto higher education with the special education needs background

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gets support in place at thd minute they arrive at university so they

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can thrive and move on to bdtter things. Can I tell them and us or I

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recently spent some time had to rant school in my constituency, `

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secondary school for pupils with autism and they do a fantastic job.

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But one of the big problem hs for those children who could le`ve and

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go into employment or trainhng beyond a secondary school, there is

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still very little available to them and I wonder what the Minister

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undertake to meet with me and Abby had a teacher of this cool to

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discuss this problem? I think my diary is filling up already on the

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first question. But there is more that we can do and the whold thrust

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of the special education nedds or is to move towards an ambitious birth

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to 25 system so that those who do have the potential to move on from

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secondary school into college and apprenticeships and univershty and

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the world of work to get evdry chance of doing so. The newly

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supported internships have seen in some parts of the country the number

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of young people moving into employment from around 15% hn some

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areas up to 70%. We know thdre is more that we can do through

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different routes but we need to make them available to the boy on people

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and I'm happy to do that with or how we do that. It is good to hdar about

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the government support for children with autism. I wonder whethdr the

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Minister will join me in welcoming proposals for additional resource in

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rugby from McIntyre Academy of setting up a new vessel preschool

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Pacific labour children with learning difficulties. I am very

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pleased to hear about the initiative in rugby and it is one of m`ny

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across the country who are tsing the new free schools programme to bring

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about a whole range of basilisk schools for those with spechal

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educational needs including five in the next charge of risk will but

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sadly for children and young people will bother them. It is a great step

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forward and to the way by ghetto he mentioned the importance of staff

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training and have been the sole answer. I wonder if he menthoned the

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importance of staff training and have them so answer. I wonddr if you

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would comment further in thd important sub building awardness and

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understanding amidst teaching Bath for children with autism and many

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others who have poor mental health and other additional means who

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really do get the opportunity to develop and thrive in mainstream. I

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have just come from a conference where a new report on the

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educational attainment of children in care which the vast majority have

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come from a special I education need with advocating exactly that. More

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training for the all care workforce and education staff. That is why the

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education trust has trained through funding for the department over

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80,000 staff in schools but there is more that we need to do to lake sure

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that there is consistency rhght across the country so that `ll those

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children irrespective of background get the chance to thrive. Thank you

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Mr Speaker. To improve the permission of STN deep supporting

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young people in getting those without the them it is vital that

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the best quality data is collected and the results are shared to

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establish as active copy as the Minister knows our successftl in

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bringing forward a private lembers bill into 2008 so that they don

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special education need with collected and published. However

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this legislation has since been revealed by the children and family

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act and many charities have told me they found it increasingly difficult

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to now obtain this informathon so can I therefore seek an asstrance

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from the Minister that he whll ensure that this data continues to

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be published annually and is readily available by all bodies in the

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sector including myself so that issues can be highlighted and

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improvements made? I will look carefully at what the honourable

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ladies that and I know we are due to be meeting tomorrow, another gap

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Leigh diarrhoea appointment I had weren't we will do at this `nd a

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range of issues that be but I am conscious of the fact that we make

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sure both through the publication which every local a party h`t and

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the increasingly rich data we have available and children with special

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education needs that we use that our decision making and how we support

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children in the future and so I will use tomorrow to extrapolate that are

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there with the honourable l`dies to see what progress we can make.

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Lesson number two Mr Speaker. I will answer this question with qtestions

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three, 78 ten and 17. The government has firmly committed to implementing

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our manifesto pledge to makd school funding there are. My right

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honourable friend B Chancellor of the extra girth announced otr

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intention to introduce a national for school, I need and earlx years

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in 2017. This'll mean that for the first time ever funding is

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transparently and barely match to people and cooled needs and we will

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set out our detailed plans hn the new year is up. I am grateftl to the

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Secretary of State for that response and it is a welcome with response

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can I urge the Secretary of State to introduce people national ftnding

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formula for all schools as soon as possible because the longer we leave

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it the worse the problem is going to get and therefore the more difficult

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it will get to put right so that children in Gloucestershire do not

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continue to lose out in the way that they have been doing for far too

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long. Can I think right honourable friend and he is right we nded to

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move as quickly as possible to answer that low funded areas are

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funded fairly and has barelx. We have taken the first that b`nk

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including Gloucestershire whll budget bites will be announced and

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as I say we will now go further introducing a national fundhng

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formula while ensuring the pace of change providing the purity to

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schools and local authoritids. Have suffered for delete it from under

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underfunding for many years. Time is of the essence and in testing this

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iniquity and while the Secrdtary of State has says he will start work

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after Richmond Avenue grateful if she did go into a bit more detail of

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those first steps he will bd taking. And I thank my honourable friend. He

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made a valuable contribution to the recent petition of the crimd

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minister Aligarh action on their funding. I intend to consult in the

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new year but I can assure hhm that there'll be much work going on

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already led by the parliamentary undersecretary of state to really

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unpack the funding formula so that all goals are funded fairly and all

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people Bath access to a good education. Under the present formula

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is cooled in my constituencx have covered greatly. People find it ..

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For the sake of... Will see as sure that the new funding formul` she was

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going to work on and as you says she started so quickly will at last

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remedy this anomaly that has been going on for far too long. PBG books

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into words just one of the differentials between areas and that

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is exactly why we need to t`ckle this issue of the unfairness in the

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funding for yellow. Is a matter of social justice that drives our

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determination to solve this current on their funding system. By the

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government is committed to introducing a funding formula to

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ensure funding is temporarily matched in need. My right honourable

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friend join me in congratul`ting the Academy who have all recently

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deceived good ratings from off that and authentic to benefit from this

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new funding formula. I take great president and congratulating all the

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pupils at the schools on thdir hard work and other excellent of

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separating. I know, it's hard work goes into getting that. As H said we

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will consult in the new year and set out the schools benefiting `nd

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detailed plans for national funding formula up. I am buried by the

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Chancellor did announce we will fulfil our manifesto commitlent of

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creating a fairer funding sxstem of the spending of the last wedk. Can

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my right honourable friend say when we will have a funding formtla which

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is ever all schools across the country because there are whnners

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and losers now, there have `lways been, and it will be no different in

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the future. My honourable friend is absolutely right about the fact that

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there is patent unfairness hn the system now. ?16 million extra is

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allocated to schools in Derbyshire in 2015-16 and we will work with her

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and other stakeholders to m`ke sure that the funding is based upon the

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characteristics of pupils r`ther than unfair historic calcul`tions up

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. As my right honourable frhend will be well aware less assure is the

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second from the bottom of the funding for the current funding

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formula despite having some of the most deprived areas in the county in

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my constituency, children and my constituency are funded by `lmost

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?500 a year per pupil less than the city of Leicester and a staggering

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?1000 or year per pupil less than Birmingham which is only 22 miles

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away. Can my right honourable friend yesterday out that the new funding

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formula will correct this for our county of Leicestershire? I am very

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well aware of the position of Leicestershire from both parents,

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school governors and of course from local counsellors and. In 2015- 6 we

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made an additional ?20 millhon available to Leicestershire and they

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will continue to receive th`t an ink in 1670 but he is right to say that

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we will be introducing a national funding formula to and a grossly

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unfair variations which he highlighted in the question up the

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devil will be in the detail. Can see Richard Gasquet in areas of high

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poverty like my constituencx in Liverpool this will not restlt in

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significant cuts and running on schools. He is absolutely rhght to

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say that the principal is rhght we will be looking in detail at the

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needs of the disadvantaged pupils. I should point out that we have also

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introduced since the forming daily Mac funding formula the puphl

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premium at a cost of over 2.5 billion a year but we will dnsure

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full consultation that all lembers and others will have an opportunity

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to have their say. Working-class boys are three times less lhkely to

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go on to university than thdir counterparts from wealthier

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families. Shouldn't this review be about closing that gap and

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addressing the social mobilhty crisis that exist and that of some

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cooled 1-size-fits-all national centre at which is what the people

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behind their urging her to introduce? As I said there'll be a

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full consultation but I think he got the wrong end of the stickidr

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because the funding of the Leigh formula to be consulted on will take

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into account the needs that he has outlined of disadvantaged ptpils

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that be cannot be right if xou want to talk about the working boys it at

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there are schools with no which are receiving hundreds of pounds last

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man schooled in 1's that is one example. We have to end this equity

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the government is taking difficult decisions that we will do that. I

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agree with his concerns. Cambridgeshire cooled like the thick

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gold 2017 is a way away. Wh`t happens between now and then? You

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will not be surprised to he`r that I have also been lobbied by ilmature

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and get along with many othdrs across the country. I'm mentioned

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the ?399 and not for the 20th 1 16 years. That is continuing to 16 17

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and will continue into the big thing going for it for the rest of this

:17:37.:17:40.

prominent. I think we have to have a balance between making sure their

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excellent progress on something demanded by MPs across the House but

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also getting it right so th`t they do not end up with a situathon that

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we have somehow got to untangle things again in a decades thme up

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copy what assurances can thd Minister give parents of a grammar

:17:57.:18:00.

school recently received a letter from the cool consulting on

:18:01.:18:05.

potential financial contribttions from parents. This date I w`nt and

:18:06.:18:12.

as the bride a view of the parents there -- this date alarms. Old are

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not asked for voluntary contributions but they must make

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sure to parent that they ard voluntary and an obligation for them

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to pay. I understand it consultation hasn't published on the website and

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it does say that children appeared to. The Leigh do not conjurd bugle

:18:29.:18:32.

might be jaded differently `nd there is no obligation for parents to

:18:33.:18:35.

conjugate and I'm happy to clarify that methods. We support moves

:18:36.:18:44.

towards fairer funding. Can the Secretary of State reassure her

:18:45.:18:47.

teachers worried about how the change funding formula will impact

:18:48.:18:51.

on their schools, a transithon from the old to the new formula will be

:18:52.:18:54.

achieved in a way that no school will lose out in cash terms if there

:18:55.:19:03.

pupil numbers remain the sale? Can I thank the honourable gentlelan. I

:19:04.:19:07.

know he has been an member of the ad 40 group of local authoritids in the

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past. Will have a full constltation. We realise will not solve the

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problem by making schooled wives more difficult and of coursd we have

:19:16.:19:20.

last week my right honourable friend the Chancellor confirmed th`t

:19:21.:19:25.

schools funding is protected in real terms per pupil until the end of

:19:26.:19:31.

this Parliament. Question ntmber four Mr Speaker. Can I wish the

:19:32.:19:39.

honourable lady and all members a happy Saint Andrews Bay. Edtcations

:19:40.:19:42.

you will know it's fully devolved in Scotland the Scottish government

:19:43.:19:45.

will benefit for the up on ` consequent old to the... Th`t was

:19:46.:19:50.

announced last week. That includes real terms but action for course

:19:51.:19:54.

cooled funding, investing ?0 billion for per year by 1920 and frde child

:19:55.:20:03.

care and... All young peopld getting the skills they need. Many things

:20:04.:20:09.

and happy Saint Andrews Bay to all the honourable members. Medhum

:20:10.:20:14.

education is available to children and 14 out of 32 Scottish local

:20:15.:20:19.

authorities copy the benefits of this filing for education are well

:20:20.:20:21.

documented copy does the Minister agree that cutting BBC all this

:20:22.:20:26.

spending as the Guild and the spending review could impact a

:20:27.:20:29.

children learning and will the Minister join me and pulling for the

:20:30.:20:33.

decision to be reversed? I'l happy to look forward into the decision

:20:34.:20:38.

would have not been raised with me before but I think we all agree

:20:39.:20:42.

though that last December today because we care about education and

:20:43.:20:45.

the standards in our school. But the most important thing in our school.

:20:46.:20:48.

But the most important thing until the learning is the quality of the

:20:49.:20:50.

is the quality of the teachhng aspect they. Education as it evolved

:20:51.:20:52.

matter for the hottest government and avail make decisions about how

:20:53.:20:58.

they are spending online whhch is copy my right honourable frhend is

:20:59.:21:01.

that an additional ?1 billion will be spent in Scotland.

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Notwithstanding devolution which is all very good, can the Secrdtary of

:21:05.:21:11.

State be a little bit inventive and finding some way of ring fencing the

:21:12.:21:15.

money so that children can be taught where better off to? -- taught we

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are better off together. I `dmire my honourable friend's to have held the

:21:25.:21:29.

Scottish government write the curriculum. I can see that there are

:21:30.:21:33.

ministers ready to take thel up on that offer. I was talking about an

:21:34.:21:38.

extra ?1 billion a year and free child care but he is right to say we

:21:39.:21:41.

are spending more and education in this Parliament. Can I join with my

:21:42.:21:48.

colleague in wishing the Hotse staff and all members here a happx Saint

:21:49.:22:04.

Andrews Bay copy -- happy S`int Andrews day. I am glad the Linister

:22:05.:22:11.

recognise the abortions of this but it is more than just a TV channel in

:22:12.:22:17.

Scotland. It played a usual rule in supporting parents of children in

:22:18.:22:24.

dialect education and I just want the secretary of state to ottline

:22:25.:22:26.

what she can do to support these parents as a result of this savage

:22:27.:22:35.

UK government cut. I'm not going to compete with the honourable lady

:22:36.:22:39.

who, still be very pleased to hear. But education funding is involved to

:22:40.:22:48.

Scotland and while the revidw might provide a valuable service H am sure

:22:49.:22:51.

there is much more the Scottish Government is able to do to support

:22:52.:22:56.

parents and teachers and schools with the funding they do receive. I

:22:57.:23:00.

notice that an education in Scotland the attainment gap between

:23:01.:23:03.

advantaged and disadvantaged have not narrowed at all. Followhng a

:23:04.:23:12.

sustained and effective campaign by my honourable friend and others in

:23:13.:23:16.

last week's Autumn Statement the government announced it will give

:23:17.:23:19.

colleges the opportunity to establish themselves as 16-09

:23:20.:23:25.

academies as part of the arda reviews of post-16 education and

:23:26.:23:29.

training. 861 College which becomes an academy will be eligible to

:23:30.:23:31.

recover their non-business VAT cost. I think right honourable

:23:32.:23:38.

friend for all of its efforts in lobbying the Chancellor to `nswer

:23:39.:23:41.

that best sensible decision has been taken place. However in my

:23:42.:23:45.

honourable friend update thd House on the timescale for 16-19 to

:23:46.:23:53.

transfer to this new regime and both inwardly those involved in lidterm

:23:54.:23:56.

reviews or area reviews at the moment or have not chosen to go this

:23:57.:24:00.

route am a will they be eligible to get this new opportunity? Proposals

:24:01.:24:08.

for individual six form colleges to become academies will be considered

:24:09.:24:11.

alongside other recommendathons from the relevant area reviews which are

:24:12.:24:15.

taking place between now and March 2017. When the College of

:24:16.:24:20.

application is a approved it will be eligible for a the 18th

:24:21.:24:23.

reimbursement as benefit has been established with 16-19 Acaddmy

:24:24.:24:27.

stated. Want all reviews have been completed we will then revidw which

:24:28.:24:31.

six form colleges have not xet taken as obstinate and what coursd they

:24:32.:24:37.

want to take. What justific`tion is there for six form colleges being

:24:38.:24:40.

treated differently for tax purposes than other schools? I assumd the

:24:41.:24:46.

honourable judgement will bd able to tell me not least because it was a

:24:47.:24:49.

Labour government that put tp with it for years. Does the Minister

:24:50.:24:56.

agree with me that one of the great advantages this change will make

:24:57.:24:58.

will be enabling fixed form colleges to become academies and therefore

:24:59.:25:03.

parts of usual multi-Academx just which will really stimulate them to

:25:04.:25:09.

even greater things? I entirely agree with the chairman of the

:25:10.:25:12.

education select committee. This is one of the great opportunithes that

:25:13.:25:17.

this proposal offers, colleges to become part of economy groups to

:25:18.:25:21.

become the six form or the @cademy groups and to thrive in that plays.

:25:22.:25:29.

Mr Speaker, the ministers rdcognised that though they finally allowed six

:25:30.:25:34.

form colleges to welcome th`t relate it will not alter the cuts so far

:25:35.:25:37.

with me not three quarters of six form colleges had to slash language

:25:38.:25:41.

and FTM provision and of cotrse they still face a real-time fundhng cut

:25:42.:25:47.

for 2020. Isn't it critical that their excellence and innovation

:25:48.:25:50.

should not now be curbed by DFD micromanagement of them as `cademies

:25:51.:25:54.

that night that the Minister agree? Last week Mr Speaker, or thd week

:25:55.:26:00.

before the honourable gentldman was waving his route to were gohng to be

:26:01.:26:06.

somewhere between 25 and 40$ cut in the per-pupil funding to 16,19

:26:07.:26:11.

education. I did not hear the welcome from him for the

:26:12.:26:13.

Chancellor's confirmation that it will remain flat cash drought this

:26:14.:26:18.

Parliament. It is of course important that six form colleges are

:26:19.:26:21.

able to prosper which is whx we brought forward this propos`l.

:26:22.:26:31.

Mr Speaker, the purpose of the education allowance was to raise

:26:32.:26:36.

educational participation at. Art reforms cause it -- 16 to

:26:37.:26:42.

19-year-olds, and creating three billing apprentice ships, h`ve

:26:43.:26:47.

delivered higher participathon and attainment than you may ever did. In

:26:48.:26:55.

the Scotland, the education`l maintenance allowance provides a

:26:56.:27:00.

lifeline of support for taldnted young people from low-incomd

:27:01.:27:03.

backgrounds. To give them the access they need for decent opporttnities.

:27:04.:27:07.

In England, the educational allowance has been another casualty

:27:08.:27:15.

of this government's obsesshon. Why is the Minister not follow the lead

:27:16.:27:19.

of the Scottish Government, that has not only pertain to the support but

:27:20.:27:25.

will expand this support to additional 12,000 students hn

:27:26.:27:31.

Scotland? I thank her, and congratulate her on her recdnt

:27:32.:27:33.

engagement to a conservativd counsellor. I did not think that

:27:34.:27:41.

these things were possible, but yet another reminder that there are ways

:27:42.:27:48.

in which we are better together Mr Speaker, I would draw her attention

:27:49.:27:52.

to the point made by the Scottish education Minister on narrowing the

:27:53.:27:57.

gap. Children from the 20% there deprived areas in the Scotl`nd are

:27:58.:28:02.

seven times less likely to `ttain higher grades than the most affluent

:28:03.:28:06.

peers. There are no lessons that we can talk -- take from Scotl`nd on

:28:07.:28:13.

narrowing the gap. In the Scotland, when we put together our figures for

:28:14.:28:20.

higher education, and compare these two figures put together for higher

:28:21.:28:24.

education in England, Scotl`nd is a leading. As a teacher, I am only too

:28:25.:28:36.

aware of how important educ`tion -- educational maintenance allowance is

:28:37.:28:40.

for keeping talented young people, not in apprenticeships, but in

:28:41.:28:44.

education. He what steps has the Minister taken it to ensure that

:28:45.:28:49.

youngsters from disadvantagdd backgrounds can continue to access

:28:50.:28:57.

further and higher education? Education is a devolved matter in

:28:58.:29:00.

the Scotland. Talking about huge cuts, there were a devolved matter

:29:01.:29:11.

in the Scotland. Talking about huge cuts, there As I said, we whll take

:29:12.:29:23.

no lessons from the SNP. Th`nk you Mr Speaker, and regular attdndance

:29:24.:29:28.

is of vital for academic success. Absence rates are down from 6% to

:29:29.:29:35.

4.4% and two 2013 through 2014, amounting to four fewer school days

:29:36.:29:42.

lost. We have addressed the previous misconception that pupils who are

:29:43.:29:45.

entitled to time off for holidays during certain times... Fewdr pupils

:29:46.:29:52.

not regularly miss school and in 2010. I congratulate, in public as

:29:53.:29:59.

they congratulated in private, the Minister of State for his rdcent

:30:00.:30:08.

marriage. Does my honourabld friend agree that improving attend`nce can

:30:09.:30:12.

sometimes come about from innovative and interesting measures, and that

:30:13.:30:17.

the all-girls breakfast club in Southampton is a brilliant dxample

:30:18.:30:20.

of how building a strong and cohesive school community c`n also

:30:21.:30:28.

improve attendance? I am gr`teful for their congratulations. H echo

:30:29.:30:33.

the words from my friend, wd are better together. I am delighted to

:30:34.:30:37.

pay tribute to the work of the breakfast club in the South`mpton.

:30:38.:30:40.

Is an excellent example of the innovative approaches that lany

:30:41.:30:43.

schools are taking to improve attendance. The prominent ftnd the

:30:44.:30:49.

charity records to provide free sustainable breakfast clubs in 84

:30:50.:30:53.

schools in disadvantaged ardas. We're also giving parents the right

:30:54.:30:59.

to request clubs, and other wraparound care that will expand

:31:00.:31:03.

their availability in the ftture. Has the Minister considered the

:31:04.:31:08.

impact of the government's welfare policy on school attendance on a

:31:09.:31:13.

disabled people over 16. I've been dealing with a constituent who has

:31:14.:31:17.

been summoned under threat of sanction during the middle of the

:31:18.:31:21.

exams. Will the government take action to ensure that those in

:31:22.:31:26.

full-time education will work around this will calendar? I will look at

:31:27.:31:34.

the case in the detail, and I will write to her. Question numbdr 1 .

:31:35.:31:49.

Question number 11. Childcare is the key issue for many parents, not only

:31:50.:31:53.

under five, but for all children. That is why my friend the Sdcretary

:31:54.:31:57.

of State announced that pardnts will be granted a new right to rdquest

:31:58.:32:02.

wraparound and holiday child care at the school. Providers will `lso be

:32:03.:32:10.

given the right to request support in this aspect. Flexibility is a key

:32:11.:32:16.

part in the provision of chhldcare, jawed ball for school-age and for

:32:17.:32:22.

preschool children. Kennedy minister assure my ministers -- will they

:32:23.:32:28.

allow for greater flex abilhty over things like drop-off and pick-up

:32:29.:32:35.

times? The Ottoman statements set out record levels of the funding

:32:36.:32:38.

available to deliver our plddge for 30 hours of free childcare. As

:32:39.:32:44.

working fathers, we know th`t it is not just about the money, it is

:32:45.:32:46.

about flexible childcare av`ilable when need it, and we will bd

:32:47.:32:50.

consulting and use the new xear about new ways to deliver this. Has

:32:51.:32:56.

anyone told the Westminster city Council on the government intention

:32:57.:33:02.

to... They have announced an end to all funding to provide their

:33:03.:33:06.

afterschool care for primarx school children. They offered this to

:33:07.:33:15.

schools, and the last, I asked the only one school to kind of this

:33:16.:33:20.

service because of budgets. Is not the case that it is absolutdly

:33:21.:33:24.

essential that working parents have the opportunity of these afterschool

:33:25.:33:28.

childcare? That is actually in retreat, not in advance? I thank her

:33:29.:33:35.

for that question, and that is precisely the purpose behind the

:33:36.:33:38.

announcement that my friend made, where schools can deliver c`re

:33:39.:33:45.

themselves, they can work whth private providers to use thd site to

:33:46.:33:49.

deliver that wraparound card. What this chamber will do will sdt a new

:33:50.:33:52.

expectation of four schools to follow through on that. Questions

:33:53.:34:02.

about childcare, wraparound flexible, it's opportune at the

:34:03.:34:05.

moment. Before the election in May, the Minister told us that play five

:34:06.:34:10.

hours of free child care wotld cost billions. The government 30 hours

:34:11.:34:19.

will cost 1.6 billion. Last week, the Chancellor told us that he was

:34:20.:34:23.

setting aside just over 600,000 for this, which leaves a shortf`ll of

:34:24.:34:27.

almost ?1 billion a year annually. With this come from quality, or will

:34:28.:34:31.

come from reassurance, or whll it come? It is impossible for the IDB

:34:32.:34:38.

are to go publish the policx would cost before they knew what the

:34:39.:34:42.

eligibility criteria for thd new entitlement was. The Chancellor

:34:43.:34:46.

announced the criteria in the Autumn Statement, and made it clear that

:34:47.:34:49.

there is a record amount of investment going into childcare One

:34:50.:34:56.

19 and 2020. That is somethhng that we should all be proud of. With your

:34:57.:35:07.

consent, Mr 12 -- question 02. The honourable gentleman will bd

:35:08.:35:10.

pleased, I am sure, to know that the Secretary of State meets regularly

:35:11.:35:14.

with colleagues to discuss ` range of issues. City regions can

:35:15.:35:21.

certainly play a role, as wd see integrated -- greater Manchdster. We

:35:22.:35:24.

have combined authorities in a Sheffield and Manchester, ldaving

:35:25.:35:36.

the education provision. Is a bit of a wall. It isn't -- is it not a good

:35:37.:35:43.

idea with second-rate acadelies to formally link them in with city

:35:44.:35:49.

regions so that the economic development education potential can

:35:50.:35:54.

be ruled together, and would he take that forward to other ministers and

:35:55.:35:57.

get that proverb or that's properly on the agenda? He has a rectrring

:35:58.:36:08.

habit of calling everything anything -- anyone else says a wall. He then

:36:09.:36:09.

be we have the regional school

:36:10.:36:20.

commissioners doing excellent work, pulling each area to account and

:36:21.:36:25.

making sure that the regions offer increasing the performance of

:36:26.:36:27.

schools and education Red Cross their area. I am sure that that is

:36:28.:36:34.

something that he would welcome With the Minister agree that

:36:35.:36:43.

bringing together public services, including those for skills `nd

:36:44.:36:49.

education for younger peopld to reflect... It brings togethdr plus

:36:50.:36:58.

16 education and employers, which is one of the parts of the system that

:36:59.:37:03.

we need to connect more closely to one another so that the

:37:04.:37:05.

opportunities that we know `re out there for the people who have

:37:06.:37:09.

ambition about what their world of work will be will have a grdater

:37:10.:37:12.

understanding of what they can achieve, and they will have a much

:37:13.:37:15.

closer relationship with businesses that want to employ them a. Was he

:37:16.:37:20.

as delighted as I was when the Minister supported policy bx

:37:21.:37:26.

advocating a Commissioner for London on Friday? When is the government

:37:27.:37:30.

going to accept political rdality, start devolving power, introducing

:37:31.:37:36.

the medic -- the critically... Race standards at a local level? I am

:37:37.:37:44.

always delighted to hear from the member from Oxbridge, who speaks all

:37:45.:37:49.

of wisdom on a whole range of subjects. On this particular issue,

:37:50.:37:54.

the most important aspect is that we devolve power to where it is most

:37:55.:37:57.

needed, which is most needed, which isn't to teachers teachers, so that

:37:58.:38:03.

they can run their schools hn the freeway that he, I know, dedp down

:38:04.:38:13.

really want them to do. Number 3. There are now more, better pualified

:38:14.:38:17.

teachers in England than evdr before. We are attracting top

:38:18.:38:22.

graduates and career changes with a generous incentive, including taxes,

:38:23.:38:32.

earning salary while training, over 2000 this year were recruitdd than

:38:33.:38:36.

in 2014 to 2015. We exceeded our target for new primary teachers and

:38:37.:38:40.

finished ahead of last year in the key secondary subjects such as math

:38:41.:38:46.

and science. Could he explahn how can schools who have historhcally

:38:47.:38:52.

struggled to attract great teachers be able to find the best and the

:38:53.:38:58.

brightest teachers for the `reas in their schools? Here is a good point,

:38:59.:39:05.

which is why we have establhshed the new national teaching and sdrvice,

:39:06.:39:10.

which will place 1500 outst`nding teachers and middle leaders in

:39:11.:39:14.

underperforming schools by 2020 In areas as he alluded to, are`s who

:39:15.:39:19.

find it hardest to attract `nd recruit and retain varies tdachers.

:39:20.:39:25.

Newcastle reported a shortf`ll in a train teachers for chemistrx and

:39:26.:39:29.

physics. Wobbled steps will the Minister take to make sure that

:39:30.:39:33.

young people are taught by pualified teachers in such subjects? We have

:39:34.:39:45.

introduced generous of recolpense. ?3000 a. In physics, we havd agreed

:39:46.:39:55.

to 700 plus graduates of. In mathematics, 204 -- 2704, compared

:39:56.:40:00.

to load in that last year. There is more the to-do, but we are going in

:40:01.:40:06.

the right direction. Top te`chers in my constituency tell me that the

:40:07.:40:12.

biggest obstacle in recruitlent and retention is the cost of hotse

:40:13.:40:15.

prices. Good my friend confhrmed that in the review of the ftnding

:40:16.:40:19.

formula, the price of property in the local areas that teachers have

:40:20.:40:22.

to rent and buy in will be factored into the funding formula? Mx friend

:40:23.:40:29.

has said, we are determined to tackle the historic unfairndss of

:40:30.:40:32.

the funding formula. The Secretary of State and the Secretary of State

:40:33.:40:37.

will be consulting on this hn the new year. Figures show a 50$

:40:38.:40:44.

recruitment shortfall in design and technology. Is this the casd for

:40:45.:40:50.

special retention? We continue to offer recompense for recruits to

:40:51.:40:59.

come into technology. We have also revised the curriculum. There have

:41:00.:41:05.

been involved in numbers of students taking the a level over a ntmber of

:41:06.:41:09.

years, and to tackle that wd have improved the qualifications in this

:41:10.:41:12.

subject, which is sure to follow through, I believe, into more people

:41:13.:41:16.

becoming graduates in the these subjects and become teachers stop

:41:17.:41:24.

we are hedging teachers, and that is caused by the adverse workload that

:41:25.:41:31.

teachers are under. What spdcific steps will his government t`ke to

:41:32.:41:38.

lessen teacher in England? The doom mongering notions that he is siding

:41:39.:41:42.

is wrong, 87% of those qualhfied in 2013 are still teaching a ydar

:41:43.:41:48.

later, 72% who qualified in 200 are still taking five years latdr. The

:41:49.:41:52.

honourable gentleman should stop talking down what is a very popular

:41:53.:41:55.

profession in this country. Indeed, we are tackling the excess of

:41:56.:42:02.

workload that teachers inherited from the previous Labour

:42:03.:42:06.

government. My friend the Sdcretary of State had a workload challenge,

:42:07.:42:09.

we have three working groups specifically tasked with tackling

:42:10.:42:14.

those issues that aren't iddntified in that workload challenge. The

:42:15.:42:28.

funding sources for the European social fund, and the plus programme

:42:29.:42:32.

that is not many schools take advantage of this programme which

:42:33.:42:36.

supports partnership between schools across the EU, including through the

:42:37.:42:39.

funding of foreign language assistance. The department `lso

:42:40.:42:44.

works to ensure that there hs a effective use of the funds that

:42:45.:42:52.

assures that apprenticeships. I thanked him for his answer. Has he

:42:53.:42:58.

considered the consequences that a vote to leave the EU would have on

:42:59.:43:03.

the funding channels for programmes such as these, and the outcome that

:43:04.:43:07.

would have destroyed the rich cultural and linguistic programmes

:43:08.:43:11.

that the EU offers, including the school trips to visit the Etropean

:43:12.:43:20.

Parliament. The Minister is focused on a successful negotiation, and he

:43:21.:43:25.

is sure that the future of the state will lie in the reform of the

:43:26.:43:30.

European union that the Minhster has set out in his recent letter to his

:43:31.:43:38.

present of the European union. Thank you Mr Speaker, what are thd

:43:39.:43:43.

Minister not agree, that as the United Kingdom sends ?350 mhllion

:43:44.:43:48.

each and every week to Brussels just a small amount of that is spent

:43:49.:43:52.

on teachers and schools will be a great advantage. Isn't that the case

:43:53.:43:57.

that one of the reasons for coming out of the AU? These are thd issues

:43:58.:44:02.

that the Prime Minister is debating, and you'll debate them in

:44:03.:44:10.

due course. Further to that point, does my friends not agree that if

:44:11.:44:16.

schools use proper -- propaganda provided by the European unhon,

:44:17.:44:21.

teachers must make certain that both sides of the argument over our

:44:22.:44:26.

membership in the European tnion are fairly and properly put forward In

:44:27.:44:35.

the name of improving education outcomes, the education ask going to

:44:36.:44:42.

1944 make it clear that any lessons in political issues have to be

:44:43.:44:53.

balanced. Mr Speaker, last week my department published a call for

:44:54.:44:57.

evidence to help broaden our understanding of education settings,

:44:58.:45:00.

and the scope of oversight `nnounced by the prime minister last lonth. We

:45:01.:45:04.

are committed to safeguarding children and protecting thel from

:45:05.:45:07.

harm and extremism, including out of school settings which provides

:45:08.:45:15.

opportunities. I would ask going to make accommodation for the 01th of

:45:16.:45:23.

January. But plans are therd to inspect Academy chains... It is nice

:45:24.:45:32.

to hear the honourable gentleman. He we have not heard much from him on

:45:33.:45:37.

education since he took up his position at. He will be aware that

:45:38.:45:42.

these matters were explored fully in the previous education select

:45:43.:45:47.

committee. Want to also expdct - inspect individual schools `nd their

:45:48.:45:53.

support. Those chains are p`rt of those inspections. We have heard

:45:54.:45:58.

from him twice today, and it is worth pointing out that he hs a

:45:59.:46:01.

philosopher, that we know, ht is on his record. Way the governmdnt doing

:46:02.:46:10.

to encourage more young to study math and other subjects in school?

:46:11.:46:16.

Our ambition is that by 2020 the vast majority of young people will

:46:17.:46:21.

study math until the age of 18. We have strengthened math to provide a

:46:22.:46:25.

more secure basis for studyhng the subject on a daily level. Wd have

:46:26.:46:30.

increased content in sciencd, introduced the new core math

:46:31.:46:34.

qualifications. Now all students have the opportunity to study the

:46:35.:46:38.

subject after the age of 16, and we have lost to the your life campaign

:46:39.:46:42.

to promote -- promote mathelatics and science to young people. Thank

:46:43.:46:49.

you for allowing me to arrive a few moments late today, as therd was a

:46:50.:46:54.

high-profile meeting taking place elsewhere on the estate. I was

:46:55.:46:59.

attending, and you can read all about on the papers later. Does the

:47:00.:47:03.

Secretary of State accept that there is a growing teacher shortage in our

:47:04.:47:12.

schools? I will hope -- was to be able to tell us whether she will be

:47:13.:47:15.

a member of the shadow Council after this debate? We have been clear that

:47:16.:47:20.

there is a challenge in terls of teacher recruitment. While vacancy

:47:21.:47:23.

rates are low, we are aware that there are issues in the subjects and

:47:24.:47:26.

in certain parts of the country That is why we announced thd

:47:27.:47:30.

creation of the national te`ching service earlier on this month. Thank

:47:31.:47:36.

you for that reply, it is good to see that the Secretary of State is

:47:37.:47:40.

now accepting that there is a growing problem of teacher

:47:41.:47:44.

shortage. It stands in contrast to some of the announcement given

:47:45.:47:48.

earlier by her minister of state. There was an important report out

:47:49.:47:53.

last week that showed half of all schools had unfilled vacanches at

:47:54.:47:56.

the start of this academic xear To plug the gaps, one in four schools

:47:57.:48:01.

are increasingly using supply teachers. One and six are using

:48:02.:48:05.

nonspecialist teachers to fhll the vacancies, and more than ond in ten

:48:06.:48:10.

are resorting to used unqualified staff to teach lessons. Doesn't be

:48:11.:48:14.

secretary of the state think that these steps are good for rahsing the

:48:15.:48:17.

standards, or does she think that this is not happening? Why H think

:48:18.:48:22.

is needed is that for all of us to recognise the enormous contribution

:48:23.:48:25.

that teachers make, and to those who try to talk down to teaching at

:48:26.:48:29.

every opportunity, talking `bout the problems, do our schools and

:48:30.:48:36.

education problem -- institttion no good whatsoever. One of the issues

:48:37.:48:41.

where Krugman is hardest is in modern foreign languages. In the 13

:48:42.:48:49.

years of her party being in power, this subject plummeted. It hs harder

:48:50.:48:53.

now to find the students to teach those languages. Ten my fridnd

:48:54.:48:58.

outline what steps have been taken to encourage more schools ottside of

:48:59.:49:03.

London to work with charitids such as free the children? Mr Spdaker I

:49:04.:49:14.

recall meeting my friend a few years ago to speak about free the

:49:15.:49:18.

children. It is good to see that she remains a strong advocate of

:49:19.:49:24.

extracurricular activities that support children becoming active

:49:25.:49:26.

citizens. That is why we have invested over ?5 million to build

:49:27.:49:34.

children character and resilience. We are working across the country,

:49:35.:49:38.

not just in London, to compdtitive sport, and, and volunteer and social

:49:39.:49:40.

aspect projects stop . And the uniform policy behng

:49:41.:49:53.

implemented amah and at short notice people -- parents are being told

:49:54.:49:57.

that day but must buy new uniforms. The children who don't have been

:49:58.:50:02.

forced to attend a learning unit in an excluded room. Walk can the

:50:03.:50:07.

Minister due to better protdct parents who cannot afford stch

:50:08.:50:10.

upfront costs without their children being punished? I'm happy to look

:50:11.:50:15.

into the individual case, btt I think that the honourable gdntleman

:50:16.:50:19.

and others yet again are putting up more barriers in the way of this

:50:20.:50:25.

scope improving the. Since 2005 at this school has been below the

:50:26.:50:30.

national average. This has been going on for ten years. This school

:50:31.:50:35.

is now an Academy, is sponsored by a trust that has done extremely well

:50:36.:50:40.

for another school Norwich primary Academy in his own constitudncies of

:50:41.:50:44.

the I'm happy to look at thd individual case, but he would do

:50:45.:50:49.

better to work with the loc`l MP to raise the educational attainment for

:50:50.:50:50.

all children stop this extends to children with

:50:51.:51:05.

special educational needs, hncluding those in a fantastic school in my

:51:06.:51:08.

constituency. The one-year honour from the reforms, with the Linister

:51:09.:51:13.

of JD House on what progress has been made? I am a pleased to hear

:51:14.:51:19.

about the work going on in his constituency, that he is

:51:20.:51:23.

championing. These reforms that we have brought represent the biggest

:51:24.:51:28.

change, and the biggest opportunity special education and support in a.

:51:29.:51:35.

Good progress is being made. This is a 3 year transition, but today all

:51:36.:51:44.

consoles have published... We have also integrated educational health

:51:45.:51:48.

and care plans available now for more complex needs which nedd to be

:51:49.:51:52.

addressed. As I mentioned a few moments ago, we are working towards

:51:53.:51:55.

the introduction of the first ever inspection from work with the

:51:56.:52:00.

quality commission to ensurd that parents and young people know

:52:01.:52:03.

whether they are able to access the range and quality of servicds that

:52:04.:52:09.

they need. Doctor Lisa Cameron. Thank you Mr Speaker. There is a

:52:10.:52:14.

real concern that following the Paris attacks, he pulled his

:52:15.:52:22.

permission could intensify. What programmes hasn't she planndd to

:52:23.:52:29.

prevent religious intolerance? She asks an important question, and

:52:30.:52:33.

sadly it is becoming ever more something that we have to think

:52:34.:52:36.

about. Religious intolerancd is unacceptable, and all schools are

:52:37.:52:41.

provide -- required to promote the rule of law, democracy, indhvidual

:52:42.:52:45.

law, and tolerance with those of different faiths and beliefs.

:52:46.:52:48.

Schools should be places whdre we support community commute as

:52:49.:52:55.

cohesion. The national citizens service. Is curriculums shotld take

:52:56.:53:01.

about the importance of respecting others. The other schools do this in

:53:02.:53:08.

very diverse areas, but we lust continue this focus on area. With my

:53:09.:53:15.

friend, when considering thd review on school funding, ensure that the

:53:16.:53:19.

problem that has arisen in recent years with the underfunding of the

:53:20.:53:23.

two grammar schools and othdr grammar schools and ethics, it is

:53:24.:53:28.

addressed. It seems unfair that they should be suffering in the way that

:53:29.:53:31.

they have through this currdnt funding formula. As he is aware we

:53:32.:53:39.

have protected the core school budget real term, and the looking

:53:40.:53:47.

into make finding her. I can assure that the grammar school, anti-school

:53:48.:53:51.

for girls, will receive funding that route flex the peoples needs fairly.

:53:52.:54:05.

Friday I met with the Glasgow foreign affairs that its funding is

:54:06.:54:09.

under pressure and demand is increasing. Can the Secretary of

:54:10.:54:12.

State tell us whether funds from the refugee resettlement progralme will

:54:13.:54:17.

be made, and what steps she is the -- taking to support this? The

:54:18.:54:24.

speaking of English is hugely important in terms of integration,

:54:25.:54:26.

and that is something that we want to see with anyone who comes here

:54:27.:54:32.

and you need to. We can support them so they can become members of our

:54:33.:54:35.

society. I'm happy to take this matter away and talk to my

:54:36.:54:42.

friends... There are rules for what money can be spent on, but H am

:54:43.:54:49.

happy to write to him. Thank you Mr Speaker. Constituencies likd mine

:54:50.:54:54.

and stooping and have a need for school places and new schools, by a

:54:55.:54:59.

lack suitable sites for new schools. Will the Minister visit

:55:00.:55:03.

with me to see what more thd government can do to help local

:55:04.:55:07.

authorities find a suitable sites for schools in places like line and

:55:08.:55:15.

to give them? As the Secret`ry of State said at last weeks London

:55:16.:55:22.

educational conference, we recognise the importance of these aside. We

:55:23.:55:26.

will work with local authorhties to designate property teams in the

:55:27.:55:30.

funding agencies by identifxing potential sites. When it coles to

:55:31.:55:35.

school buildings and repairs, we on this site are creating placds and

:55:36.:55:39.

fixing the school roof whild the sun is shining. Following last week s

:55:40.:55:51.

devastating risk -- report `bout 450,000 children are being sexually

:55:52.:55:55.

abuse over the last two years. I wonder if the Secretary of State

:55:56.:55:59.

disagrees with me and disagrees with the children community --

:56:00.:56:02.

Commissioner... Should be compulsory?

:56:03.:56:07.

I do not disagree with the honourable Lee that education should

:56:08.:56:12.

be compulsory but I think it should be age appropriate and just because

:56:13.:56:15.

something is statute does not mean that it is always talked whhle. What

:56:16.:56:20.

I would rather see is that these issues there is a good currhculum,

:56:21.:56:24.

taught well, taught by compdtent teachers or people coming in from

:56:25.:56:27.

outside were going to inspire those young people. Will be Secretary of

:56:28.:56:32.

State join me in saluting the work of the ambassadors and to w`nt to

:56:33.:56:35.

tell the House what further steps are being taken to make surd that

:56:36.:56:41.

more and more children do... I will join my honourable friend and

:56:42.:56:45.

saluting work of the stem ambassadors. Since 2010 we have seen

:56:46.:56:54.

a level stem increase to radically. Matt is now the single most popular

:56:55.:56:59.

a level choice with 92,000 hnjuries last year. But we do want to go for

:57:00.:57:04.

further. Of your life campahgn is targeting your 11 pupils as they

:57:05.:57:08.

make their a choices with the aim of increasing physics by 50% in three

:57:09.:57:16.

years. Can I ask the schools minister if you meet and have a

:57:17.:57:21.

discussion with me about funding for the new at his word school hn

:57:22.:57:28.

Coventry? I'm happy to have such a meeting. Prince William school in

:57:29.:57:34.

and deal has recently converted into an academy but for many years and

:57:35.:57:37.

suffered from a chronic lack of investment. I'm grateful to

:57:38.:57:40.

ministers for the interest they have shown today but what reassurance can

:57:41.:57:44.

against that schools such as this will be top of the government's

:57:45.:57:52.

investment priority? We plan to spend billion pounds between

:57:53.:57:56.

2016-2021 in February. We announced allocations of four point 2 billion

:57:57.:58:02.

between 2015 and 2018 to improve the condition of existing schools

:58:03.:58:04.

including funding for the condition improvement find to whisper prince

:58:05.:58:11.

William school is eligible to. Our core is to keep building safe and in

:58:12.:58:22.

good working. Into the Scottish Government launched a new chosen

:58:23.:58:27.

families and young people fhnd focus on improving educational eqtality

:58:28.:58:30.

and allowing young people to improve their potential copy are thd

:58:31.:58:34.

government very to save you look at this fine example from Scotland

:58:35.:58:43.

That always -- I am always happy to look at what happened in Scotland.

:58:44.:58:46.

The honourable gentleman might want to look at what we have been in

:58:47.:58:51.

England in terms of narrowing the gap between advantaged and

:58:52.:58:53.

disadvantaged and they might find they could learn something from us.

:58:54.:58:56.

Could you tell us how many schools require pupils to where somdthing is

:58:57.:59:05.

part of their uniform was white but we do not collect that data but

:59:06.:59:08.

these are issues for the he`dteacher and governing body of the school.

:59:09.:59:12.

But they do have to act reasonably and public body they have bx law act

:59:13.:59:18.

reasonably. The government's own findings show that the 26 wdek

:59:19.:59:22.

timescale applied in care proceedings is leading to rdst and

:59:23.:59:25.

unsuitable placement for chhldren under... Baal the Minister not

:59:26.:59:31.

except what the social work profession has known all along that

:59:32.:59:35.

26 weeks is not sufficient to plan properly for a vulnerable child s

:59:36.:59:40.

life? The honourable way thd will know from memory because shd was on

:59:41.:59:44.

the old committee that when we brought in the 26 weeks timdscale

:59:45.:59:51.

for care cases, the average was over 55 weeks, which I think unddr

:59:52.:00:00.

anyone's view would be a holy over the level that it should be for a

:00:01.:00:05.

decision to be made about a child's long-term feature. We have lanaged

:00:06.:00:09.

to bring that close to 26 wdeks but what we need to make sure it that in

:00:10.:00:12.

relation to special guardianship orders that the assessment of

:00:13.:00:14.

potential terrorist for those children is as robust as it would be

:00:15.:00:19.

for any other decision about that child's long-time permanent and if

:00:20.:00:21.

there is a concern that into many cases that is not happening. Many

:00:22.:00:27.

had teachers in my constitudncy reported increased prevalence of

:00:28.:00:31.

mental health goblins among young people in schools. Would be

:00:32.:00:35.

Secretary of State agree with me that we need to see better

:00:36.:00:39.

integration between schools and child and adolescent mental health

:00:40.:00:43.

services so that we can deal with this growing problem. I know my

:00:44.:00:50.

honourable friend is a passhonate campaigner on mental health issues.

:00:51.:00:54.

He will be aware that we have funded a 1.5 million joint pilots with the

:00:55.:00:57.

department for help on this single point of contact between schools and

:00:58.:01:03.

services so that parents do not have to go through the aggravation of

:01:04.:01:05.

trying to work out how to access these vital services to support

:01:06.:01:13.

their young children. Version question. -- urgent question. To ask

:01:14.:01:18.

the Secretary of State for Transport if you make a statement on decision

:01:19.:01:21.

on the route and patient choices for high-speed to. Mr Speaker, the

:01:22.:01:32.

government is getting on with building H as to. Legislation to

:01:33.:01:37.

build the first two Birmingham is resting while. Last week thd

:01:38.:01:40.

Chancellor confirmed the finding, today we are also responding to

:01:41.:01:44.

reports published last year by Sir David Higgins Chairman of HS2. He

:01:45.:01:50.

recommended building the line were quickly to bring the benefits to the

:01:51.:01:53.

north sooner. I have therefore announced today my decision on the

:01:54.:02:00.

section from the west Midlands to crew. Now offered to as section to

:02:01.:02:05.

a. We intend to celebrate this so it opens six years sooner than planned

:02:06.:02:13.

in table open in 2027. This will bring faster journeys to crdw of

:02:14.:02:16.

Manchester and other cities in the North and Gotland. This will support

:02:17.:02:21.

growth and jobs in the northern para Howells. I have set up thesd plans

:02:22.:02:26.

and a command paper and supporting documents, copies of which `re being

:02:27.:02:29.

placed in the House library. Remainder of phase two will see a

:02:30.:02:34.

full wide Brut built to Manchester and Leeds bite 2033. Today H have

:02:35.:02:41.

also set out my plans for the rest of the route to head of a brute

:02:42.:02:46.

decision next year. I'm also asking HS2 to explore how we might serve

:02:47.:02:51.

Stoke including by road junction at Hunsaker. The junction will be part

:02:52.:02:57.

of phase one and will allow trains to serve stations on the exhsting

:02:58.:03:01.

line through Staffordshire. I also want to ensure those affectdd by the

:03:02.:03:07.

scheme are properly compens`ted The government is committed to `ssisting

:03:08.:03:13.

people along the route from the West Midlands to crew. Therefore today I

:03:14.:03:17.

am launching a consultation on the proposals to implement the same

:03:18.:03:22.

long-term property assistance schemes for phase two A as for phase

:03:23.:03:27.

one. As with phase one, the government proposes to go above and

:03:28.:03:30.

beyond what is required by law including discretionary measures to

:03:31.:03:37.

help more people. Mr Speaker, H S two will deliver economic growth for

:03:38.:03:40.

this country. Not just in the immediate future but also the

:03:41.:03:43.

long-term. Which is why we continue to commit to this essential project.

:03:44.:03:53.

Thank you Mr Speaker and I think the Secretary of State for his response.

:03:54.:03:55.

Today marks a sad day for Stoke-on-Trent as our campahgn for a

:03:56.:03:59.

stop and step for the second phase of matter is HS2 his the letters. We

:04:00.:04:06.

now are you a rail line frol Manchester to London could have been

:04:07.:04:09.

achieved more quickly so we seek to mitigate the blow let me ask the

:04:10.:04:14.

Minister this. The initial lodelling for HS2 suggested a downgrade of

:04:15.:04:18.

service due to still come ghant based on ?7.7 billion worth of cuts

:04:19.:04:22.

to his existing in services to cities such as the cluster `nd

:04:23.:04:26.

Wakefield. Can he confirm that it no longer a plan? The department for

:04:27.:04:29.

chance for a document published today speaks of working to retain

:04:30.:04:35.

probably comparable services today. Can I tell the Minister my

:04:36.:04:38.

constituents are not interested in the manager of billions accounts for

:04:39.:04:43.

similar services up the you not confirm the government is committed

:04:44.:04:47.

to running classic compatible trains via the Hunsaker junction whth equal

:04:48.:04:53.

regularity and faster speeds so Stoke-on-Trent maintains its vital

:04:54.:04:57.

connectivity? Finally with crew rather than Stoke benefiting from

:04:58.:05:02.

this massive investments, plans for a Northern Gateway partnership

:05:03.:05:04.

between Stoke-on-Trent and Eastchester become more important.

:05:05.:05:09.

The last Parliament the citx of Portsmouth had a dedicated linister

:05:10.:05:11.

for regeneration. I am not saying that we necessarily want thd Member

:05:12.:05:16.

for West soul folk but now seems right we should have the sale

:05:17.:05:20.

support to ordinate cross departmental strategy in thd region.

:05:21.:05:25.

High-speed train line work for the country when they focus on growing

:05:26.:05:29.

the economies of regional and second-tier cities as much `s major

:05:30.:05:32.

metropolis these. Imprint Stoke-on-Trent will be the test for

:05:33.:05:38.

the success of such a stratdgy and will be watching it closely. To

:05:39.:05:45.

first say that I think therd has been a positive case and a very good

:05:46.:05:49.

dialogue between Stoke-on-Trent and Sir David Higgins about the way in

:05:50.:05:53.

which HS2 will serve the whole region. I, as a former membdr myself

:05:54.:06:00.

of Staffordshire for some sdven years note Stoke-on-Trent incredibly

:06:01.:06:03.

well and I fully accept that the importance for the highest bead

:06:04.:06:08.

chain link which I think will come to the whole region copy he talks as

:06:09.:06:11.

if crew is 100 miles away from Stoke-on-Trent, is his little it up

:06:12.:06:16.

the road and just over the ,- literally of the road and over the

:06:17.:06:20.

hill as far as where the st`tion may go. I very much look forward to the

:06:21.:06:25.

advantages of serving not only crew but also Stoke-on-Trent as well He

:06:26.:06:32.

asked about classical compatible trains, both are compatible trains

:06:33.:06:36.

those are ones not as simil`r to what they are serving in Kent, that

:06:37.:06:40.

is why the Hunsaker junction is so important as well as so the Leigh

:06:41.:06:46.

serving not only Stoke-on-Trent but Macclesfield and Stafford is

:06:47.:06:49.

concerned that the benefit dinner from the faster services and quicker

:06:50.:06:52.

services and I fully accept the point he makes about nobody wanting

:06:53.:06:56.

to see eight demonization of services to Stoke-on-Trent or

:06:57.:07:01.

anywhere else for that mattdr. One of the reasons for this hugd

:07:02.:07:04.

investment it so that we can see more services and more options

:07:05.:07:09.

available to as far as freight is concerned. The West Coast m`inline

:07:10.:07:13.

is one of the busiest lines anywhere in Europe so is right that we focus

:07:14.:07:18.

on how we bring the relief that we need to and the extra capachty that

:07:19.:07:22.

we need to on that line. But I am more than willing to continte in

:07:23.:07:26.

conversations with Stoke-on,Trent about the best way to move forward

:07:27.:07:29.

as far as the whole region hs concerned. Despite the doculents

:07:30.:07:36.

published today over the past week alone we have seen the numbdrs and

:07:37.:07:41.

finding HS2 guilty of a maladministration of her

:07:42.:07:44.

communications. The standing orders committee of this house describing

:07:45.:07:47.

their supply of information at an absolute shambles and an FOHA

:07:48.:07:54.

request revealing a massive inaccuracy in investments and my own

:07:55.:07:57.

consistency. What confidencd can we have that today by Zack and

:07:58.:08:00.

announcement of a speeded up timetable for phase two of HS2 is

:08:01.:08:06.

not going to lead to an increased catalogue of mismanagement, mistakes

:08:07.:08:08.

and more misery for people `long the route? Featured is Mr Speakdr

:08:09.:08:17.

anything I say about HS2 as far as my right honourable friend hs

:08:18.:08:20.

concerned on not be met with any kind of favour whatsoever. She has

:08:21.:08:24.

made the opposition perfectly clear. I believe it is absolutely dssential

:08:25.:08:28.

for the long-term economic hnterests of the United Kingdom and

:08:29.:08:32.

particularly the four hour Lauren city as well so that is white is

:08:33.:08:35.

right to go ahead but I do not dismiss those people who directly

:08:36.:08:39.

are affected by it and thosd people who have trouble as a result of a

:08:40.:08:43.

major infrastructure project taking place. I have seen major

:08:44.:08:46.

infrastructure project which has ever gotten universal support in its

:08:47.:08:51.

time of construction. It is usually finding that the board afterwards.

:08:52.:08:55.

And back to the first railw`y line point to be built between Bhrmingham

:08:56.:08:59.

and London was the feed in the House of commons because canals wdre

:09:00.:09:06.

perfectly adequate. Can I congratulate my honourable friend

:09:07.:09:10.

for Stoke-on-Trent Central on securing this urgent question? Is

:09:11.:09:15.

constantly campaigned to secure benefits for his constituency from

:09:16.:09:18.

high-speed rail and I echo his statements on the importancd of

:09:19.:09:22.

Hunsaker junction and the existing network. Mr Speaker, labour support

:09:23.:09:28.

HS2 and we want to make surd that sections of the route can bd

:09:29.:09:32.

delivered at a schedule including to crew especially after minister left

:09:33.:09:37.

the bill running 18 months late However, the paper published today

:09:38.:09:41.

raises new questions alongshde some belated answer is. Can he explain

:09:42.:09:45.

why Manchester Airport stathon has still not been fully confirled and

:09:46.:09:51.

agree that it would be a body blow for the northern powerhouse it

:09:52.:09:54.

Manchester Airport was not served by HS2? Why will HS2 exact route and

:09:55.:10:01.

station locations including in the East Midlands not be finalised until

:10:02.:10:06.

late 2016? To put it another way, why would the state -- why has it

:10:07.:10:11.

taken the government over shx years to confirm their plans for

:10:12.:10:14.

high-speed rail in the Midl`nds and the North? The government h`d

:10:15.:10:18.

previously said they would `lso consider accelerating construction

:10:19.:10:22.

of the lathe to Sheffield p`rt of the eastern leg. Is that sthll on

:10:23.:10:27.

the table and what consider`tion is any has been given to acceldrating

:10:28.:10:30.

the West Midlands to the East Midlands section of phase two? On

:10:31.:10:37.

cost after speaker, and increase was announced on the Comprehenshve

:10:38.:10:44.

Spending Review from 50.1 bhllion ?55.7 billion. Will he confhrm this

:10:45.:10:48.

increase is simply a result of recasting HS2 from 2011-2014 by this

:10:49.:10:54.

war are there other components of the cost rise? Finally Mr Speigel

:10:55.:10:59.

are labour amended HS2 plumbing legislation to ensure that cost

:11:00.:11:04.

increases or understands ard reported. His department had said

:11:05.:11:08.

that the first such report was due in autumn 2015. Why is this report

:11:09.:11:13.

now delayed? When will we sde it? And that the first such report was

:11:14.:11:16.

due in autumn 2015. Why is this report now delayed? When will we see

:11:17.:11:20.

it? And does on the constant gas constant Britney? Can I answer the

:11:21.:11:28.

last question first and if H published the to today. -- constant

:11:29.:11:33.

scrutiny. As far as the othdr point she made, she makes a point of that

:11:34.:11:40.

rope HS2 costs rising to 55.7. She is absolutely right, that is the

:11:41.:11:45.

cost of 2015 prices and the other costings were up to 2011 prhces and

:11:46.:11:49.

that is why the increase has taken place. It is worth pointing out Mr

:11:50.:11:54.

Speaker that during this spdnding review at HS2 E to .14% of GDP.

:11:55.:12:03.

Gasquet equates 2.14% of GDP, not over burdens than of Molde navigate

:12:04.:12:08.

him in. She asked the questhon about the other stations. I said that

:12:09.:12:14.

talking about the East Midl`nds base and I'm very least there now seems

:12:15.:12:17.

to be a consensus as to where that patients should actually go and that

:12:18.:12:22.

was lacking up himself for fairly recently and I very much welcome

:12:23.:12:25.

that but I hope to be able to say more about that next year. Some of

:12:26.:12:29.

the point on consultation h`d thrown up some issues that should be a just

:12:30.:12:33.

and that is why I have said today that I hope to confirm the rest of

:12:34.:12:41.

the route for both the East side by late 2016. When she talks about the

:12:42.:12:47.

Manchester Airport station that runs into the qualifications I h`ve just

:12:48.:12:50.

said about the consultations which are ongoing but I think any

:12:51.:12:55.

documents I have published today we do discuss a number of thesd

:12:56.:12:59.

particular issues. Can I just say as far as the bill being 18 months

:13:00.:13:03.

late, I think those people serving on the bill are doing an

:13:04.:13:07.

exceptionally good job. I do not regard it as 18 months late, Ira

:13:08.:13:10.

guarded on time or the timetable which was that out by the l`st

:13:11.:13:15.

Secretary of State in the l`st Labour government to only ptblished

:13:16.:13:17.

the plans nine months beford the general election. Will right

:13:18.:13:23.

honourable friend agree with me that the most important thing about HS2

:13:24.:13:28.

is not improved journey timds per se, but for a more importantly

:13:29.:13:32.

creating the capacity that we need on the West Coast because the

:13:33.:13:38.

conventional line will be ftll to capacity by 2024. Could you please

:13:39.:13:42.

tell the House is both phasd one and phase two of HS2 still on thme? And

:13:43.:13:47.

will he confirm his announcdment about crew means that it will be

:13:48.:13:52.

built six years prior to thd original deadline? Mr Speakdr, may I

:13:53.:13:56.

ask you even that you have been so generous in congratulating people

:13:57.:14:00.

today that you congratulate the Secretary of State on his bhrthday?

:14:01.:14:08.

I am very happy to do so. If I had known to remember to congratulate

:14:09.:14:11.

him I would have done but I did not and so I did not, but I do now and I

:14:12.:14:15.

am very happy to do so. Alw`ys happy to have a bit of information. Mr

:14:16.:14:29.

Speaker, I thought your birthday resident was going to be th`t I

:14:30.:14:35.

would have my chance of spe`king at the dispatch box today but H would

:14:36.:14:37.

like to thank my honourable friend for the paint to leave that point he

:14:38.:14:44.

makes. My honourable for made a number of points about capacity

:14:45.:14:47.

absolutely right that one of the key reasons for the whole of thd HS

:14:48.:14:52.

project is not just about thme, it is not just about faster jotrneys,

:14:53.:14:57.

but it is indeed about capacity We have seen a huge increase on the

:14:58.:15:00.

number of people using our railways over the last 20 years. Figtres

:15:01.:15:11.

rising from 750 million to 0.6 billion and we're seeing continual

:15:12.:15:13.

growth as far as our railwaxs are concerned. Not just as far `s

:15:14.:15:19.

passenger numbers are concerned but also the huge increase in freight. I

:15:20.:15:22.

am very pleased to say the project is on-time. It is huge projdct, some

:15:23.:15:27.

people will be disrupted by what I think it is in the long-terl

:15:28.:15:30.

economic interests of the United Kingdom. The Chancellor's

:15:31.:15:36.

announcement that high-speed rail will be to cruise the years earlier

:15:37.:15:42.

than planned is to be welcoled as it should lead to a reduction hn

:15:43.:15:45.

journey times between Scotl`nd and London however there is now an

:15:46.:15:49.

opportunity for the UK government to also accelerate winning to dxtend

:15:50.:15:58.

high-speed railing to Scotl`nd. Willie Secretary of State rdaffirmed

:15:59.:16:00.

their aspiration for the gi`nt time between Holland and London `nd turn

:16:01.:16:06.

this aspiration into further commitment? And I thank the

:16:07.:16:09.

honourable gentleman for his welcome as far as the statement I h`ve made

:16:10.:16:15.

today. It is true to say th`t phase two able give Scotland even quicker

:16:16.:16:20.

journey to London soon or than was originally planned. The journey time

:16:21.:16:25.

between London and Glasgow will be three hours when phase two opens and

:16:26.:16:31.

that is indeed an improvement. The network will deliver London to

:16:32.:16:34.

Glasgow journey times and three hours 38 minutes and London to

:16:35.:16:36.

Edinburgh in three hours 39 minutes and I believe that the over`ll HS2

:16:37.:16:44.

will bring huge benefits for Scottish economy altogether. The UK

:16:45.:16:46.

under Scottish government are working together to consider options

:16:47.:16:52.

to further reduce that journey times and HS2 is doing further work and I

:16:53.:16:55.

hope to be able to make a statement on the next steps in the new year.

:16:56.:17:02.

Figure two which has been mdntioned a number of times is in my

:17:03.:17:04.

constituency and I'm afraid once again my constituents are f`ced with

:17:05.:17:12.

some English having faced phase one, phase two a start in my constituency

:17:13.:17:15.

as well. I would ask my right honourable friend to specifhc

:17:16.:17:21.

versions if I may. Can you give some indication of timetable as to win

:17:22.:17:25.

the proposed route is going to be published so that my constituents

:17:26.:17:30.

can look at it and come with suggestions and also when you think

:17:31.:17:32.

the committee states and thd petitions might begin? Is bdhind

:17:33.:17:36.

victory Junction the one th`t connects with the West coast main

:17:37.:17:41.

line which also go through ly constituency really necessary now

:17:42.:17:47.

given night the connection to crew is going to be six years in advance?

:17:48.:17:54.

Mr Speaker can I first say that the plans I have announced and the maps

:17:55.:17:59.

I have announced have been published today so if his constituents and

:18:00.:18:01.

indeed he will be able to examine exactly where the root is proposed

:18:02.:18:05.

to go and that was part of the announcement that was done by

:18:06.:18:11.

written ministers this mornhng as far as that is concerned. I

:18:12.:18:16.

appreciate the disruption it will bring about in certain parts of my

:18:17.:18:19.

honourable friend's constittency but he will know from his experhence

:18:20.:18:26.

with phase one that changes can be made where they are brought to

:18:27.:18:33.

benefit and case argued and engineering possible as indded has

:18:34.:18:38.

happened in and around other places. I welcome the announcement that the

:18:39.:18:44.

benefits that will come to the north sooner than previously planned. But

:18:45.:18:48.

I do emphasise the point made by my honourable friend that

:18:49.:18:52.

Stoke-on-Trent and other ardas not directly on the line should benefit

:18:53.:18:57.

through improved connectivity and it is very important that things are

:18:58.:19:00.

arranged so that that happens but I asked the Secretary of Statd is the

:19:01.:19:08.

37% cuts to his Department of budget announced last week are compatible

:19:09.:19:12.

with the delivering of this important project on time? Can I

:19:13.:19:17.

thank the honourable Lady through her work as the chairman of the

:19:18.:19:19.

select committee she has always been supportive of the overall objectives

:19:20.:19:25.

as far as more train capacities and has made the case for a mord direct

:19:26.:19:29.

service directed to Liverpool which obviously is part of what I will be

:19:30.:19:32.

addressing when I come to adjust the full route towards the end of next

:19:33.:19:38.

year. I have to say my honotrable friend the Member for Crewe who

:19:39.:19:40.

joins me today on the front bench has also made the case as to why he

:19:41.:19:43.

believes that the announcemdnt I have me today is the right decision.

:19:44.:19:48.

But it is not just my decishon. It is a decision which has been based

:19:49.:19:53.

on what Sir David Higgins, chairman of HS2 has done in his over`ll

:19:54.:19:57.

structure reports and I think it is very important as to how thhs feeds

:19:58.:20:02.

into the rest of the question about national infrastructure which we

:20:03.:20:05.

have asked the national infrastructure committee to advise

:20:06.:20:11.

us on as far as eight Asburx or crossrail two as to how the future

:20:12.:20:16.

is concerned. She asked whether it is deliverable within the ddpartment

:20:17.:20:21.

of pinning changes announced yesterday last week and the answer

:20:22.:20:28.

to that is yes. The forecast revenue and losses in the first few years

:20:29.:20:35.

and what are the consequencds on revenue and subsidies on thd

:20:36.:20:39.

existing railway? We believd that the PCR for the lines I've `nnounced

:20:40.:20:45.

today are positive VCRs which will do ever turned for the country but I

:20:46.:20:49.

say to my old mobile friend it is not all about the CRs if thdy had

:20:50.:20:56.

been listened to the Jubiled line would never have been made. They

:20:57.:21:01.

have made huge defenses... HS2 Limited is not involved to any

:21:02.:21:23.

part of the UK. Can therefore explained why the statement of

:21:24.:21:27.

funding policy for the devolved executions provide for 100%

:21:28.:21:32.

consequences from HS2 to Scotland and Northern Ireland and 0% to

:21:33.:21:38.

Wales. I believe Wales is gdtting a benefit as far as the serving of the

:21:39.:21:44.

announcement I have made today to North Wales was to be very hmportant

:21:45.:21:50.

to a North Wales economy. The Secretary of State is well `ware of

:21:51.:21:54.

my views of HS2. Two weeks `go I have the HS2 phase to minister in my

:21:55.:21:58.

constituency and explained ht to him and showed him the devastathng

:21:59.:22:02.

affect the current route have on the elect and taking out the major

:22:03.:22:05.

employer of the south end of the constituencies topping a new housing

:22:06.:22:06.

development and requiring the building of new piece of thd 84

:22:07.:22:11.

will cause huge distraction. When will we have a definitive route and

:22:12.:22:14.

when will my constituents gdt the compensation they deserve? @s I have

:22:15.:22:19.

said to my honourable friend in the House I hope to be able to say more

:22:20.:22:24.

about the entire unit both the east and the West sections later next

:22:25.:22:32.

year. My opposition to HS2 will not come as a surprise to anyond with

:22:33.:22:37.

light and realised that thotsands of residents. Will the Minister clarify

:22:38.:22:41.

whether the announcement today about Crewe will impact the line of route

:22:42.:22:44.

coming into the used his face and the Western candidate and Brandt?

:22:45.:22:51.

Note the announcement I havd made today will have no impact at all --

:22:52.:23:00.

no. I note today that counsdl had been successful in their lobbying

:23:01.:23:04.

for the T station in the centre and that has also raised concerns for my

:23:05.:23:10.

constituents and as he knows myself about options being considered on

:23:11.:23:15.

the route into Leeds was I hope will include... Can I urge my right

:23:16.:23:19.

honourable friend to put prdssure on HS2 to publish as soon as possible

:23:20.:23:24.

to avoid remortgaging and found that mortgaging companies gave hhs house

:23:25.:23:29.

a ?0 rating. Can I say to mx honourable friend I am incrddibly

:23:30.:23:34.

sympathetic to cases like that that he has just made and I am also

:23:35.:23:37.

willing and my ministers ard always willing to look into individual

:23:38.:23:42.

cases. It is a huge project as I say I do regret that I am not able to

:23:43.:23:46.

say more at this exact moment in time as far as confirming the rest

:23:47.:23:51.

of the route but that is sthll being studied and all options being put

:23:52.:23:54.

forward by honourable members are being looked at. There'll also be a

:23:55.:23:59.

time once we have given the route for changes to be made subsdquent to

:24:00.:24:04.

that through the process whhch the build-up to go through the House of

:24:05.:24:07.

Commons but it is part of the difficulty I'm afraid that planning

:24:08.:24:10.

a infrastructure project thdre are long-term and do take a lot of time.

:24:11.:24:17.

I echo my honourable friend, but in addition to that the Secret`ry of

:24:18.:24:20.

State will know, and happy birthday to him, that Crewe might look on a

:24:21.:24:28.

map next door to Stoke-on-Trent but it is a good hour by car from my

:24:29.:24:33.

constituents constituents, by train when she got into Stoke the line at

:24:34.:24:40.

the line as he will know very well, the Crewe Derby line is app`lling. I

:24:41.:24:44.

think you need to look carefully at that line and bring that forward six

:24:45.:24:48.

years. I think these points are all points that need to be lookdd at and

:24:49.:24:52.

considered sappy what is absolutely essential I believe is that

:24:53.:24:57.

Stoke-on-Trent gets a benefht from HS2 as does the whole area of North

:24:58.:25:01.

Staffordshire and that solvd art of Cheshire. It is a very important

:25:02.:25:04.

part and we need to ensure that it gets the connectivity and whatever

:25:05.:25:11.

other issues of connectivitx that can take place in the plannhng

:25:12.:25:16.

process should be looked at. I endorsed the comment that the

:25:17.:25:20.

honourable member of Stoke-on-Trent said. It is vital that

:25:21.:25:24.

Stoke-on-Trent has this connectivity as indeed does that hurt and I

:25:25.:25:28.

welcome the Secretary of St`te Bath comments about a generous

:25:29.:25:31.

compensation scheme that nedds to be generous and with but managds asked

:25:32.:25:35.

him whether there are opportunities to look again at the alignmdnt or if

:25:36.:25:39.

not the alignment certainly the elevation of the Richter my

:25:40.:25:43.

constituency where everything the point we have made has been

:25:44.:25:47.

disregarded. Mr Speaker, wh`t I am announcing today is a line dxtension

:25:48.:25:54.

of basically 37 miles betwedn the West Midlands and Crewe. Of that 37

:25:55.:26:01.

miles 1.1 miles it entitles, three-time, and there will `lso be

:26:02.:26:05.

four miles of iodide but of course I am also willing to listen to

:26:06.:26:09.

representations from my honourable friend and other people who wish to

:26:10.:26:13.

make them. There will I be sleepy a process once the bill is published

:26:14.:26:16.

of people being able to pethtion the bill as well.

:26:17.:26:21.

Is there any chance of Liverpool being linked into HS2? As a result

:26:22.:26:32.

of the announcements I have made, it will be a faster journey as far as

:26:33.:26:36.

the high-speed link is concdrned. I think that we will see the benefits,

:26:37.:26:40.

and other people are making the case that we go even further, with the

:26:41.:26:47.

HS2 line. I asked the Secretary of State to reconfirm the commhtment to

:26:48.:26:53.

the root. To try to bring forward some of the... I have said that I

:26:54.:27:02.

welcome the fact that there is now a common agreement between thd

:27:03.:27:06.

councils, which there wasn't at one stage as to where the site would be

:27:07.:27:12.

a. As far as the case of making a faster decision, I will do what I

:27:13.:27:15.

can. I have outlined the rottes that we are going to take, and the

:27:16.:27:19.

process that we are going to go through. I will hold back bx wishing

:27:20.:27:30.

happy birthday... He knows that I have raised this many times. He said

:27:31.:27:39.

he intends to extend, can you give me some good news about that line? I

:27:40.:27:45.

am glad that he does not get comeback Mr Speaker. The

:27:46.:27:48.

announcements that have madd to date make no difference to the route that

:27:49.:27:53.

is already before house, and the line that is being investig`ted by

:27:54.:27:57.

the committee leading from the London to the West Midlands Route. I

:27:58.:28:01.

think that what we have dond is that we have improved the compensation

:28:02.:28:04.

arrangements for the whole of the root. To as he is aware, a number of

:28:05.:28:15.

my constituents will be bitterly disappointed as of today, bdcause

:28:16.:28:17.

they do not know what the route will be a. Willie -- will he use his

:28:18.:28:22.

influence to bring forward darly compensation to those peopld so that

:28:23.:28:27.

they can move on with their lives? I think that my honourable frhend

:28:28.:28:33.

should be pleased to note that the new consensus in the East Mhdlands

:28:34.:28:39.

is removed from her constittents the possibility of it being a

:28:40.:28:44.

stationary. I will listen vdry carefully to what my honour`ble

:28:45.:28:49.

friend says. We have got thd exceptional hardship payments for

:28:50.:28:52.

certain cases, and I am alw`ys willing to look and any indhvidual

:28:53.:28:58.

case study thank you Mr Spe`ker May I endorse the comments made by my

:28:59.:29:06.

neighbouring MPs. I want to share the dismayed that we are gohng to

:29:07.:29:13.

have a station in Stoke-on-Trent. I welcome the handshake or

:29:14.:29:16.

announcement, and ask for ddtails on the timing of the consultathon as to

:29:17.:29:20.

when we'll have a final dechsion? The hands acre is partially in the

:29:21.:29:24.

build that is currently before the house at the moment. It is being

:29:25.:29:29.

studied by a special committee looking into the first part of the

:29:30.:29:35.

root. As far as the other points which the lady makes, I refdr back

:29:36.:29:40.

to what I said before, and that I am keen to see that Stoke-on-Trent and

:29:41.:29:45.

Stafford also get benefit from the new train services which will be

:29:46.:29:50.

available as I said earlier on. Capacity is one of the most

:29:51.:29:55.

important reasons for this. We normally take a bump, but wd must

:29:56.:29:58.

move on because there is he`vy pressure on time. The Secretary of

:29:59.:30:12.

State for health, Jeremy Hunt. With permission of Mr Speaker, I would

:30:13.:30:16.

like to update the house on the junior doctor's strike a. E`rlier

:30:17.:30:23.

this month, the union represented doctors balloted for industrial

:30:24.:30:26.

action over contractor form. Because of the first strike is tomorrow I

:30:27.:30:30.

wish to update the house on a contingency plans being madd.

:30:31.:30:35.

Following the last week's spending review, no one can be in anx doubt

:30:36.:30:39.

about this government's comlitment to the NHS. Additional resotrces

:30:40.:30:45.

have to be matched with an dven stiffer surfaces -- save his data

:30:46.:30:50.

services for patients. On the back of a mounting academic eviddnce

:30:51.:30:54.

mortality rates are higher over weekends than during the wedk. We

:30:55.:31:00.

made a manifesto commitment to deliver Sunday hospital services for

:31:01.:31:03.

urgent and emergency care. However, it is important to note that Sunday

:31:04.:31:08.

services are not just about Junior Doctor contractor form. The Academy

:31:09.:31:14.

of medical role colleges noted that the weekend effect is very likely

:31:15.:31:19.

attributable to deficiencies in care processes linked to the absdnce of

:31:20.:31:23.

skill in inherent senior st`ff, and a system that is not configtred to

:31:24.:31:27.

provide a full diagnostic and support services seven days a week.

:31:28.:31:32.

Our plans will support the linute junior doctors who already work

:31:33.:31:39.

weekends, seven-day diagnostics and other support services. The ability

:31:40.:31:45.

to discharge on weekends, and other parts of the NHS and the social care

:31:46.:31:51.

system. Reforming both the consultants and Junior Doctor

:31:52.:31:55.

contracts is a key part of the mix. The current contracts have the

:31:56.:31:58.

unintended consequences of laking it too hard for hospitals to mtster

:31:59.:32:03.

urgent and emergency care evenly across seven days. Our plans are

:32:04.:32:08.

deliver early and tended to be good for doctors, they will feel more

:32:09.:32:13.

generous rates for weekend work then those offered to pleasd

:32:14.:32:20.

officers, fire officers, and pilots. They offer Junior contractors hours

:32:21.:32:29.

with a basic pay rise averaging 11%, and average be maintained. They

:32:30.:32:33.

reduce the maximum hours to eight doctor can work in any week from 91

:32:34.:32:39.

to 72 hours, and they stop altogether the process of asking

:32:40.:32:44.

doctors to work fine in row. Most of all, they will improve the

:32:45.:32:49.

appearance of doctors working over the weekend by improving thd care

:32:50.:32:53.

that they can deliver to thdir patients. Our preference has always

:32:54.:32:58.

been for a negotiated soluthon. The house knows that they have refused

:32:59.:33:03.

to enter negotiations since June. However, last week, I agreed with

:33:04.:33:09.

officials to meet them under the auspices... I am pleased to report

:33:10.:33:14.

to the house after working through the weekend, discussions led to a

:33:15.:33:18.

potential agreement early this afternoon between the BMA

:33:19.:33:24.

leadership, and the governmdnt. This agreement would allow a timd-limited

:33:25.:33:29.

agreement during which negotiations can't take place, and during which

:33:30.:33:34.

the BMA agrees to suspend the strike action, and the government `grees

:33:35.:33:40.

not to proceed unilaterally not to pursue new contract. This is now

:33:41.:33:44.

sitting with the BMA Junior Doctor's executive committed, will

:33:45.:33:46.

decide whether they are abld to support it later today. It hs

:33:47.:33:51.

important for the house to know right now, strikes are still planned

:33:52.:33:59.

to start at midnight. I will turned to the contingency plan. Thd

:34:00.:34:03.

government's first contingency is to keep its citizens set safe. This

:34:04.:34:08.

applies to those who need c`re in our hospitals. The we are m`king

:34:09.:34:13.

every effort to minimise risks caused by the strike. I havd chaired

:34:14.:34:17.

three contingency plan meethngs today, and will continue to chairs

:34:18.:34:22.

further meetings for the duration of the strike. NHS England are

:34:23.:34:27.

collecting feedback from all trusts, but currently we estimate that the

:34:28.:34:30.

planned action will mean up to 20,000 patients may have vital

:34:31.:34:37.

operations counseled, including approximately 1500 cataract

:34:38.:34:43.

operations, 900 skin lesion removal, 600 plus the operations, 400 spine

:34:44.:34:48.

operations, 250 gall bladder removals, and nearly 300 tonsil

:34:49.:34:55.

operations. NHS England has also written to all trusts, asking for

:34:56.:35:01.

detailed information on the impact of the strikes are planned for the

:35:02.:35:03.

eighth and 16th of December, which will involve not just the whthdrawal

:35:04.:35:08.

of a lecture of care, but the withdrawal of urgent and emdrgency

:35:09.:35:12.

care as well. We are giving up particular effort emphasis to the

:35:13.:35:18.

staffing at major trouble, sentences -- centres. We have concerns of

:35:19.:35:27.

vision safety. All trusts w`nt to consider safety care to provide more

:35:28.:35:30.

bad to. So far, the BMA has not been willing to provide our insurances

:35:31.:35:35.

they will ask their members to provide urgent emergency coverage in

:35:36.:35:40.

these areas. Will continue to press for such references. It is

:35:41.:35:45.

regrettable, Mr Speaker, th`t this strike was called even before the

:35:46.:35:50.

BMA had seen the government's offer. The whole house will hope today that

:35:51.:35:55.

the strike is called off so that strikes -- talks can resume. Whether

:35:56.:36:00.

or not there is a strike, providing safe services for patients will

:36:01.:36:03.

remain the priority of this government as we work toward our

:36:04.:36:08.

long-term ambition of making NHS care the safest and highest quality

:36:09.:36:11.

in the world. I commend this statement to the house. Thank you Mr

:36:12.:36:19.

Speaker, and can I thank thd Secretary of State for an advanced

:36:20.:36:22.

copy of his statements, and indeed for making the statement today. Mr

:36:23.:36:28.

Speaker, you will note that when we last debated Junior Doctor's

:36:29.:36:31.

contracts in this chamber, the house secretary was too busy to attend. I

:36:32.:36:36.

am glad that he has found the time today. First of all, can I start by

:36:37.:36:42.

saying that I strongly welcome what the house secretary has announced.

:36:43.:36:48.

Nobody wants to see industrhal action, not least the Junior

:36:49.:36:52.

doctors, and so hopefully common sense will prevail. However, I do

:36:53.:36:57.

have a number of issues I w`nt to press the house secretary on. First,

:36:58.:37:04.

on house services tomorrow light still be affected, second, `bout

:37:05.:37:09.

workforce morale, and third, about what happens next? First of all a

:37:10.:37:15.

week and a half ago, I wrotd to the Prime Minister suggesting

:37:16.:37:21.

independent talks to resolvd this dispute. My proposal was imlediately

:37:22.:37:27.

supported by the Academy of medical world colleges, and accepted by the

:37:28.:37:31.

British medical Association. But it took the government a furthdr five

:37:32.:37:39.

days to agree to enter talks. The issue is this Mr Speaker. Ghven a

:37:40.:37:43.

number of operations have already been cancelled, is it not the case

:37:44.:37:49.

that if the house secretary had agreed to this proposal when it was

:37:50.:37:54.

first put to him, he could have avoided, or at least medicated any

:37:55.:38:01.

disruption to patients tomorrow Mr Speaker, during my urgent qtestion

:38:02.:38:06.

into this house on the 20th of November, the Minister was `sked 12

:38:07.:38:11.

times about involvement, and 12 times he repeatedly refused to agree

:38:12.:38:18.

to talks. Can house secretary say very clearly why it took thd

:38:19.:38:23.

government so long to agree to talks, when the ministers initially

:38:24.:38:29.

appeared to rule out this proposal? Second, the house secretary will

:38:30.:38:32.

know that this dispute has been deeply damaging to workforcd morale.

:38:33.:38:38.

Many Junior doctors have already voted with their feet, or would have

:38:39.:38:41.

been planning to do so over the coming months. Has the department

:38:42.:38:46.

made any estimate as to the effect of a dispute on recruitment and

:38:47.:38:52.

retention? What action is hd taking to stop the brain drain of our

:38:53.:38:56.

brightest medics to countrids such as Australia and New Zealand? It was

:38:57.:39:02.

clear from my conversations with Junior doctors that they felt that

:39:03.:39:06.

they were the first line of defence in a fight for the future of the

:39:07.:39:13.

NHS. Whether that is rare wrong is a remarkable situation for junior

:39:14.:39:17.

doctors to find themselves hn the. Will he now sat out his approach to

:39:18.:39:22.

negotiations with other grotps of staff about pay and conditions? Does

:39:23.:39:28.

he accept that you cannot kdep asking our NHS workforce to do more

:39:29.:39:35.

for less? Finally, I would say gently to the house secretary, that

:39:36.:39:39.

his handling of these negothations has been a lesson in precisdly how

:39:40.:39:47.

not to do it. I trust that today's announcement will mark a ch`nge in

:39:48.:39:51.

tone, and a change in appro`ch on the parts of the government. With

:39:52.:39:54.

that that in mind, let me s`y this to the house secretary. Everyone in

:39:55.:40:00.

this house agrees that if you go into a hospital in an emergdncy on

:40:01.:40:06.

a Sunday, you should get thd same treatment that you would get on a

:40:07.:40:11.

Tuesday. The house secretarx has repeatedly failed to make the case

:40:12.:40:16.

for why reforming the Junior Doctor contract is essential to thd aim

:40:17.:40:20.

the. I make a genuine offer to the house secretary today. I am prepared

:40:21.:40:26.

to work with him on a cross party basis to do everything posshble to

:40:27.:40:33.

eradicate the so-called weekend effects, and we will support any

:40:34.:40:36.

necessary reforms to achievhng that end. In return, the house sdcretary

:40:37.:40:42.

needs to be absolutely clear about what needs to change in orddr to

:40:43.:40:47.

deliver that. As many studids have concluded, there needs to bd much

:40:48.:40:51.

more research into why therd is a weekend effect, so that we can make

:40:52.:40:56.

sure that we can focus efforts on the actual problem. With thd house

:40:57.:41:00.

secretary today committed to commissioning new independent

:41:01.:41:05.

research into power reforming staffing arrangements over the

:41:06.:41:09.

weekend might help improve the quality of weekend services? Does he

:41:10.:41:15.

understand that part of the problem has been that he has implied that

:41:16.:41:21.

junior doctors are to blame for differential mortality amongst

:41:22.:41:24.

patients admitted during thd weekend? Can he say what other steps

:41:25.:41:30.

he will be taking to ensure that we have consistent seven-day sdrvices,

:41:31.:41:35.

including making sure that social care is available outside of the

:41:36.:41:42.

working week. ? Can he update the house on the consultant negotiations

:41:43.:41:45.

which are separate to the Jtnior Doctor negotiations, and whdther

:41:46.:41:49.

there is a more -- where thdre is a more direct link to seven-d`y

:41:50.:41:52.

services. I welcome the fact that the house secretary finally agreed

:41:53.:41:58.

to talks last week. I welcole the news from those talks today. Nobody

:41:59.:42:05.

wants patients to suffer, and I hope now we can start to put this whole

:42:06.:42:16.

sorry Saugus behind us. What an interesting response from someone

:42:17.:42:21.

who has never championed seven-day services, and who has never been

:42:22.:42:24.

prepared to stand up for patients and do the right thing, howdver

:42:25.:42:30.

difficult it might be. Let le respond to her comments. Thd reason

:42:31.:42:37.

that we did not respond immddiately was nuts to rule out, to sax that we

:42:38.:42:43.

consider it. I made a private approach to the head of the British

:42:44.:42:47.

medical Association to see whether there was enough common grotnd to

:42:48.:42:52.

make an approach to make it worthwhile. I wanted to makd time

:42:53.:42:56.

for that private approach to bear fruit. She asked about the brain

:42:57.:43:03.

drain -- brain drain. Keybo`rd 8 billion of extra resources for the

:43:04.:43:08.

NHS next year. That is ?100 billion more than the Labour Party promised

:43:09.:43:14.

in the last election. That hs the promise we can make on the back of a

:43:15.:43:18.

strong economy, a promise that the Labour Party would never be able to

:43:19.:43:21.

deliver. She has repeatedly called for the government to removd the

:43:22.:43:26.

threat of contract -- contr`ct imposition. Let me tell you what we

:43:27.:43:31.

cannot do that. It would give the BMA a veto over a manifesto

:43:32.:43:37.

commitment that has been endorsed by the British people. What we have

:43:38.:43:45.

said, well we have actually said is that we will suspend proceeding to

:43:46.:43:48.

the new contracts during thd period in which negotiations happen, a

:43:49.:43:54.

short time limited period, `nd ate the BMA will suspend the threat of

:43:55.:44:00.

strikes that time limited pdriod. Removing the threat of an position

:44:01.:44:09.

permanently is not been agrded in any bar of the NHS or the ptblic

:44:10.:44:12.

sector. The government has to balance the needs of patients,

:44:13.:44:16.

doctors, and taxpayers. Givhng one of those groups a veto over any new

:44:17.:44:21.

contract would make it impossible to make that judgement. She talked

:44:22.:44:29.

about a sort of, the way to have approached this. Being intelperate

:44:30.:44:35.

and unreasonable is a quality that I appear to share with any Minister of

:44:36.:44:40.

health that the BMA has met. Not my words, but the words of the person

:44:41.:44:47.

who founded the NHS. Had he listened to the BMA, he would not have been

:44:48.:44:52.

able to listen -- set up thd NHS. It would have been up to the

:44:53.:44:59.

government. Let me say to hdr that this Junior Doctor's contract is not

:45:00.:45:04.

the only thing that we need to do to have seven-day services, but

:45:05.:45:08.

contract reform is what hospitals say is the most important thing of

:45:09.:45:13.

all. It is based on independent research. The 20 13th report from

:45:14.:45:20.

the Academy of real medical colleges is what we have based our proposals

:45:21.:45:24.

on the. We have also based on the seven studies that we have now had

:45:25.:45:28.

over five years. These talk about the problems over the weekend

:45:29.:45:32.

affect. We have also had thd independent research of the

:45:33.:45:36.

independent page on which wd base the bulk of our proposals. H want to

:45:37.:45:41.

say to her that, when he cale to the biggest issue of patient safety in

:45:42.:45:46.

the NHS in recent years, shd did not speak out against the strikd, she

:45:47.:45:49.

did not support the governmdnt support for Sunday services, and

:45:50.:45:55.

when the came to within mortality, she chose to pickles and thd data

:45:56.:45:59.

rather than to make calls for action. The British public have

:46:00.:46:00.

noticed. Bale may I congrattlate my the military tactics of the BMA To

:46:01.:46:25.

personalise any dispute agahnst the Secretary of State goes back when

:46:26.:46:39.

they were... Every Secretarx of State of every party since that time

:46:40.:46:43.

has had exactly the same experience in dispute. If he succeeds hn

:46:44.:46:49.

getting these negotiations tnder way on a time-limited basis, as he quite

:46:50.:46:56.

rightly says, will he appro`ch them in a reasonable way? Also insisting

:46:57.:47:01.

that the BMA make it clear that they do support a seven-day servhce which

:47:02.:47:09.

would obviously be a benefit to the country, that they are not going to

:47:10.:47:15.

turn this into large amounts of extra pay when they are still

:47:16.:47:18.

amongst the best paid medic`l professions in Europe, if not the

:47:19.:47:24.

best paid medical profession. What everybody should be concentrating on

:47:25.:47:30.

is how to raise the standards of service to ordinary patients up and

:47:31.:47:35.

down the country, and to get rid of these higher mortality rates over

:47:36.:47:42.

the weekends. I would like to thank him for his robust support. I seem

:47:43.:47:47.

to remember that when he was house secretary, there were posters bob

:47:48.:47:50.

all over the country saying that what you call a man who ignores the

:47:51.:47:54.

Doctor's advice, and it was a picture of my friend. He knows what

:47:55.:47:59.

this is all about. It is not just conservative health secretaries He

:48:00.:48:07.

is absolutely right, we will all be delighted if the strike is

:48:08.:48:12.

postponed. If it starts at dight o'clock tomorrow morning, not

:48:13.:48:17.

midnight. He is right, the focus from the government's point of view

:48:18.:48:21.

will be unremittingly about improving patient care. We lade it

:48:22.:48:24.

clear that any settlement h`s to be within the current pay envelope and

:48:25.:48:28.

the great sadness of this is that the vast majority of doctors are

:48:29.:48:32.

totally passionate about dohng something about a seven-day

:48:33.:48:38.

services. They only had the if only we had the opportunity to ndgotiate

:48:39.:48:41.

since June, we could have avoided this. Thank you Mr Speaker, I also

:48:42.:48:52.

welcome that the Secretary of State has changed plain errors th`t would

:48:53.:48:56.

have seen seven to ten o'clock on a Saturday all been touted as the same

:48:57.:48:59.

during a week. That would h`ve punished those who already work

:49:00.:49:04.

during the weekend, such as acute medical, and the doctors working in

:49:05.:49:07.

a any, the people that we nded to. I welcome that the Secretary of State

:49:08.:49:11.

has done this. I would be grateful if you replied to me and cl`rified

:49:12.:49:17.

whether the threat of imposhtion, if there is or isn't? The statdment

:49:18.:49:21.

says that it has been removdd, but his reply to the shadow secretary

:49:22.:49:28.

implies that it has hasn't. The talk about people dying over weekends. If

:49:29.:49:31.

I could do stress that it is not excess deaths during the wedkend,

:49:32.:49:36.

implying that hospitals... Ht is excess deaths of people admhtted on

:49:37.:49:42.

weekends from a guy on any day of the week. Junior doctors ard already

:49:43.:49:47.

covering weekends. It is thd additional services to diagnose and

:49:48.:49:52.

get people on their journey. If we could just focus on a that.

:49:53.:49:57.

Unfortunately, the Secretarx of State in previous statement has

:49:58.:50:00.

moved from talking about excess deaths, to talking about thd consult

:50:01.:50:04.

and opt out Clause, which only applies to new teamwork, and I am

:50:05.:50:08.

sorry that a toenail clinic will not save lives. We should actually focus

:50:09.:50:15.

on strengthening the seven-day service for urgent cases, c`ses that

:50:16.:50:19.

are ill, and the people who lead to these excess deaths. Hopefully we

:50:20.:50:23.

can make progress, and I do join him, and everyone in this house in

:50:24.:50:26.

hoping that there is not a strike tomorrow. She is right, this is an

:50:27.:50:36.

issue about the excess mort`lity rates admitted over weekends, not

:50:37.:50:40.

the people who are already hn the hospital on the weekends. She is

:50:41.:50:43.

mistaken into some of her characterisation of some of the rest

:50:44.:50:47.

of the government's position at The clinical standard is clear that

:50:48.:50:51.

people admitted over weekends should be seen, or anyone admitted at any

:50:52.:50:58.

time, should be seen in 40 hours a. This is true in only one of eight in

:50:59.:51:04.

our hospitals throughout all seven days of the week. Sorting ott the

:51:05.:51:08.

consultant contract for urgdnt and emergency care does matter, and

:51:09.:51:12.

although the opt out in the consult and contract only applies to all

:51:13.:51:16.

active work, it is the case that we have half as many consultants

:51:17.:51:19.

available in our A departlent on Sunday as during the week, dven

:51:20.:51:24.

though Sunday is one of the busiest days of the week. It is not just the

:51:25.:51:29.

two doctors. If he wants to make life better for junior doctors, we

:51:30.:51:32.

need to make sure that they have a more senior cover, that thex do not

:51:33.:51:36.

feel clinically exposed. Independent services said that they do `. With

:51:37.:51:44.

respect to the right that government on all sides have to have to set the

:51:45.:51:47.

terms and conditions of the employment contract, that is a right

:51:48.:51:53.

that has not been a part of the public sector. Is a vital rhght for

:51:54.:52:00.

all employers. I sadly say that I will not move towards any ndw

:52:01.:52:05.

contract while negotiations are happening during this time-limited

:52:06.:52:10.

period. Dazzle my statement said, and the BMA said that if thd under

:52:11.:52:15.

this agreement, then they whll remove the threat to strike during

:52:16.:52:24.

that period. Can I congratulate the Secretary of State on coming here to

:52:25.:52:28.

the house today on this verx important matter, and I think the

:52:29.:52:32.

all sides of the house support him on the try to find a negoti`ted

:52:33.:52:36.

solution to this problem. However, I was concerned that if the strike

:52:37.:52:43.

does go ahead, but we hope that the BMA will see sense and agred to the

:52:44.:52:47.

terms that put on the table, I understand that they have not been

:52:48.:52:50.

willing to pervert -- providing assurances that they will ask their

:52:51.:52:55.

members to provide urgency `nd present care. What more can the

:52:56.:52:59.

Secretary of State do to encourage the BMA to make that statemdnt,

:53:00.:53:04.

because that is what will bd wearing a patient out there? I would like to

:53:05.:53:11.

thank her for her question. In terms of the overall picture, we lust

:53:12.:53:16.

declare that this is not about Junior doctors to work a lot of

:53:17.:53:22.

extra hours for free. We do expect that, as we have increased `nd can't

:53:23.:53:27.

come over Sunday services, lore people working hours partictlarly on

:53:28.:53:30.

Sundays, that that might le`d to a higher pay bill. What we nedd to do

:53:31.:53:35.

is to make sure that the proposals for the workforce that we h`ve at

:53:36.:53:40.

the moment protect average pay, and as we move to seven-day services

:53:41.:53:43.

that there are affordable for hot hospitals. In respect to her

:53:44.:53:51.

question, we respect the right for doctors to strike, even thotgh it is

:53:52.:53:54.

disappointing when they choose to do so. They have said on this occasion,

:53:55.:54:00.

in a way that is quite a president... Unprecedented, that

:54:01.:54:09.

they will provide emergency care in December. If there are areas that we

:54:10.:54:17.

are not able to make altern`tive care arrangements, we would like

:54:18.:54:21.

their support in those spechfic areas, not across the whole country

:54:22.:54:25.

in asking Junior doctors to stop in on those cases for patient safety.

:54:26.:54:31.

We have not had those assur`nces, but we hope that we will get them.

:54:32.:54:38.

Command of an informative rdplies are appreciated. Progress so far,

:54:39.:54:45.

the length of questions has a been a bit slow. I would remind thd House

:54:46.:54:50.

that the next debate is verx heavily subscribed, so I would like to get

:54:51.:54:54.

to everyone if possible, but brief questions and brief replies if

:54:55.:55:03.

possible. When the Secretarx of State chaired his three continues

:55:04.:55:06.

the meetings, did he take into account the fact that last xear we

:55:07.:55:16.

had something like 43,900 excess... Largely caused by overcrowdhng

:55:17.:55:21.

medical Department. What provisions did he make to avoid this, `nd to

:55:22.:55:30.

make sure that it is not happening now? She is ready to be concerned

:55:31.:55:34.

about winter deaths that we have had, but I would not characterize

:55:35.:55:39.

her reason for those reasons for the excess deaths in the way th`t she

:55:40.:55:43.

did. We think that there were caused by the ineffectiveness of the flu

:55:44.:55:47.

vaccine, that was recommenddd by the World Health organisation l`st year

:55:48.:55:50.

that proved not to be as effective as it normally is. The earlx size is

:55:51.:55:56.

that this year's Vecsey will be more excessive -- and successful. The

:55:57.:56:03.

those deaths at home, we ard doing everything this winter, as we did

:56:04.:56:07.

last winter, to make sure that we demised the possibility of dxcess

:56:08.:56:08.

deaths. Can I very gently remind melbers

:56:09.:56:21.

that it is a good idea to continue to stand. One should not st`nd once

:56:22.:56:24.

and then as soon thereafter the chair is psychic. I had a htnch the

:56:25.:56:29.

honourable lady would wish to contribute, but keep standing. To

:56:30.:56:32.

help the chair and is also helpful in terms of exercise. Can I welcome

:56:33.:56:39.

that the BMA is returning to talk and there is a potential agreement

:56:40.:56:44.

on the table, the dispute h`s focused on pay and hours but I think

:56:45.:56:47.

actually it's roots may go deeper than that. For instance how'd

:56:48.:56:52.

juniors often do not feel v`lued or part of the team. Does my rhght

:56:53.:56:55.

honourable friend agree that the best way to improve the sittation

:56:56.:56:59.

for juniors is for them to dngage in talking rather than striking? And

:57:00.:57:03.

about talking as they are as a right choice by juniors for the ftture --

:57:04.:57:09.

who are the future leaders of the NHS. I do agree with my honourable

:57:10.:57:12.

front who has great knowledge on NHS matters and I we say to junhor.

:57:13.:57:16.

There's this is not just about contracts and pay it is also about

:57:17.:57:21.

their training and having consultants more available `t

:57:22.:57:23.

weekends will help improve their training but we also need to look at

:57:24.:57:27.

the issue of continuity of training which I think has been undermined

:57:28.:57:31.

over recent decades. It junhor doctors are looking for a vhsual

:57:32.:57:36.

reflection of this government's commitment to the NHS look `t the

:57:37.:57:39.

spending review statement of the last week, the extra resources we

:57:40.:57:42.

are putting in tag circumst`nces. This is a government battling the

:57:43.:57:45.

NHS and we are doing everything we can to back junior. There's. --

:57:46.:57:59.

junior doctors. A time-limited period during which the negotiations

:58:00.:58:02.

take place, could the secretaries say whether it is a day and week or

:58:03.:58:06.

a month and contract be imposed after that? I hope the honotrable

:58:07.:58:12.

lady will understand that bdcause I am area much over the executive

:58:13.:58:16.

committee of the junior doctors at the BMA will agree to go ahdad with

:58:17.:58:19.

this agreement we have made with their negotiators. I do not want to

:58:20.:58:24.

go into further details abott the contents of that agreement.

:58:25.:58:26.

Obviously as soon as that agreement is made it will be published but I

:58:27.:58:31.

think it would preempt that decision if I were to go into detail. It is a

:58:32.:58:35.

reasonable period of time for negotiations to happen. It `ppears I

:58:36.:58:43.

need to... I am very pleased to hear that all parties are possibly

:58:44.:58:47.

background around the table and I joined Secretary of State and hoping

:58:48.:58:50.

that the strike action is c`lled off. Following eight meeting with

:58:51.:58:53.

the bath junior doctors this week and it was clear they will `lso be

:58:54.:58:57.

delighted. Can he confirm as part of these negotiations that safdguards

:58:58.:59:00.

will be a central part of the we negotiation? Obsolete. We w`nt to

:59:01.:59:07.

reduce the number of doctors working unsafe hours, we want to make sure

:59:08.:59:12.

that we have binding ways of making sure that hospitals cannot hgnore

:59:13.:59:15.

the intention of any agreemdnt we make and ask doctors to work extra

:59:16.:59:20.

hours that they do not want to work that may be unsafe or indeed ask

:59:21.:59:25.

trade on the goodwill that leans that many doctors to work unpaid

:59:26.:59:29.

extra hours. It is a very ilportant part of discussions that I hope we

:59:30.:59:33.

will now be old to enter into. I have had a number of e-mails from

:59:34.:59:37.

constituents about this matter. What impact of the Secretary of State

:59:38.:59:42.

believe this fiasco will have over the long-term morale of staff in the

:59:43.:59:46.

National Health Service? I'l afraid I do not agree with her

:59:47.:59:50.

characterisation of this as a fiasco when we are making really ilportant

:59:51.:59:55.

changes that will save patidnt lives by eliminating the weekend of fact

:59:56.:59:59.

that we have had now for soletime in the NHS and that I think anx

:00:00.:00:02.

responsible government needs to deal with. I think the way you ilprove

:00:03.:00:06.

morale in the NHS is by makhng it easier for doctors to give their

:00:07.:00:09.

patients the care that they want to give. At the moment that it's very

:00:10.:00:13.

difficult at weekends in many places and we want to put right. Wd have

:00:14.:00:22.

heard about the 20,000 cancdlled operations and the inconvenhence

:00:23.:00:25.

caused to patients by the plant strikes but I wonder if my right

:00:26.:00:27.

honourable friend could report to the House house serving the needs of

:00:28.:00:31.

patients is featuring with negotiations of junior doctors so

:00:32.:00:34.

that the patient can give the same level of care seven days a week

:00:35.:00:39.

That is the reason why we h`ve had the whole dispute with the BMA and I

:00:40.:00:44.

think it is disappointing that rather than negotiate with ts on

:00:45.:00:47.

something and I think every doctor understands we do need to address it

:00:48.:00:51.

has had to come to the 11th hour like that. In the end, he is

:00:52.:00:57.

absolutely right to say that doing the right thing for patients is also

:00:58.:01:00.

doing the right thing for doctors because doctors go into medhcine

:01:01.:01:03.

because they want to look after patients. Thank you for your

:01:04.:01:13.

statement. At the same time minister none of us want to see a new contact

:01:14.:01:17.

impose upon the doctors that is the worst possible outcome. The NHS is

:01:18.:01:21.

very important we have the seven day a week Ross that. In Northern

:01:22.:01:25.

Ireland at the BMA represent many. Junior doctors were held as a

:01:26.:01:28.

default matter. What discussion has the Minister had with those in

:01:29.:01:34.

northern and discuss this? We are keeping in regular contact with our

:01:35.:01:37.

counterparts in the devolved assemblies and parliaments `nd it is

:01:38.:01:42.

up to them to decide what they do but I hope they will be encouraged

:01:43.:01:46.

by the progress that I think we are beginning to make in the argument

:01:47.:01:53.

for seven-day services. There are no winners on either side whendver

:01:54.:01:57.

there is a strike so I do whsh the Secretary of State well with the

:01:58.:02:01.

negotiations. What answer does he have for the doctors that I have met

:02:02.:02:05.

who believe that this contr`ct chains versus junior doctors to work

:02:06.:02:12.

even longer for less? I would like to categorically reassure those

:02:13.:02:15.

doctors that is not the intdntion of the changes that we are makhng. We

:02:16.:02:19.

have made it clear that we will protect the pay of anyone working

:02:20.:02:22.

within their legal contractdd hours, three three quarters of

:02:23.:02:27.

junior doctors will see thehr pay will rise as a result of thdse

:02:28.:02:31.

changes. We want to deliver safer care and if we are able to go ahead

:02:32.:02:34.

with negotiations that I hope we can put the BMA in the coming wdeks than

:02:35.:02:39.

I hope will be able to put hn place very strong safeguards at all sides

:02:40.:02:43.

that they agree will reassure his constituents. The Secretary of State

:02:44.:02:50.

has got to accept that his responsibility in bringing `bout the

:02:51.:02:55.

cancellation of operations, if he had been prepared to go to ` care at

:02:56.:03:00.

the out that this could havd all been avoided. Does he accept you

:03:01.:03:03.

will have to change of attitude towards negotiation with thdse

:03:04.:03:05.

junior doctors that we are going to get a satisfactory outcome that we

:03:06.:03:11.

all want to see? Let me say to the honourable gentleman that mx

:03:12.:03:14.

attitude is very straightforward. I need to do the things that will make

:03:15.:03:17.

patients and the NHS favour and I want to negotiate reasonablx with

:03:18.:03:22.

anyone where there is a contract shall issue that needs to bd

:03:23.:03:25.

resolved in order to do that. I think the government's position has

:03:26.:03:28.

been reasonable. The vast m`jority of doctors will see their p`y go

:03:29.:03:34.

up, the pay for everyone else working legal contracted hotrs will

:03:35.:03:37.

be protected. I think this hs a very reasonably off till -- reasonable

:03:38.:03:41.

offer that does a better job for patients but it has been difficult

:03:42.:03:45.

to get through the BMA. I would urge them to talk to his friends at the

:03:46.:03:48.

BMA and urge them to be reasonable and talk to the government `nd I

:03:49.:03:50.

think we could avoid some of these problems. Can I thank the Sdcretary

:03:51.:03:57.

of State and the BMA for thd work over the last two days in bringing

:03:58.:04:01.

that hopefully to a resoluthon and encourage that spirit going forward.

:04:02.:04:04.

Can I suggest that the main way in which bore out can be restorative is

:04:05.:04:09.

to see that both sides are `t thing in the interest of patients and in

:04:10.:04:13.

particular Asian safety which is so vital to both doctors and all of us

:04:14.:04:19.

-- patient safety. I think no one knows more about campaigning for

:04:20.:04:22.

patients that my honourable friend as he has done in his own

:04:23.:04:25.

constituency and I congratulate him for that. I think that is rhght

:04:26.:04:28.

There does not need to be an argument on a matter like it because

:04:29.:04:32.

it unites but the government, what we want to do to make the NHS the

:04:33.:04:35.

safest care in the world and what doctors themselves want to do. I

:04:36.:04:40.

think the best way forward hs to put aside suspicion and for both sides

:04:41.:04:44.

to recognise that actually we are trying to do the right thing for

:04:45.:04:47.

patients, the right thing for doctors and the right thing for the

:04:48.:04:52.

NHS. The Secretary of State has failed, he has failed patients, he

:04:53.:04:57.

has failed junior doctors and he has failed his government. You dat

:04:58.:05:01.

Secretary of State best to put aside suspicion, I suspect that the reason

:05:02.:05:05.

why the Secretary of State did not agree to meet in a care sooner was

:05:06.:05:10.

the cause -- so he could sndak in the announcement during the Autumn

:05:11.:05:16.

Statement. Let me tell the honourable Lady but the failure was

:05:17.:05:20.

here. And was to set up a contract for junior doctors in 2003 which has

:05:21.:05:25.

made it impossible for hosphtals to roster popper grayer at weekends. I

:05:26.:05:31.

think the duty of the secretary of state is to put right though this

:05:32.:05:34.

oracle wrong so that patients are safe. -- proper care at weekends. I

:05:35.:05:42.

am due to go to the hospital to meet some of the doctors on the picket

:05:43.:05:46.

line tomorrow. I am sure we would all agree is far better that the

:05:47.:05:51.

doctors are there working and their representatives are talking to

:05:52.:05:53.

government representatives tomorrow instead. What my right honotrable

:05:54.:05:57.

friend agree with me that in talking to the BMA their is genuine room for

:05:58.:06:01.

the negotiation and agreement on many of the details? I have always

:06:02.:06:06.

actually believed that this'll be better agreement for. There's

:06:07.:06:11.

patients and the NHS if it hs a negotiated agreement becausd I am

:06:12.:06:15.

sure the BMA have value that they can add in the negotiation process

:06:16.:06:18.

to make sure that we implemdnt the spirit of what the government wants

:06:19.:06:21.

to do and not just the lattdr of it. I would agree with what my

:06:22.:06:25.

honourable friend says and H hope we can answer constructive serhous

:06:26.:06:31.

negotiations. -- enter construct of serious negotiations. Mr Spdaker, I

:06:32.:06:41.

have watched my friend for lotion East fight night and day seven days

:06:42.:06:44.

a week for services and day seven days a week for services in of State

:06:45.:06:49.

against saying that she has not fought for seven-day week sdrvices.

:06:50.:06:54.

But can I help the Secretarx of State to restart this process with

:06:55.:06:59.

trust, will he confirm that he has heard as I have heard from junior

:07:00.:07:03.

doctors who in my constituency that their primary concern is for nothing

:07:04.:07:09.

else but patient state. -- they should state. I do think th`t is a

:07:10.:07:14.

primary concern of the vast majority of junior doctors which is why I

:07:15.:07:19.

think it was wrong for the BMA to refuse to even sit down and discuss

:07:20.:07:22.

with the government how we were going to implement a manifesto

:07:23.:07:26.

commitment amah but because I now hope we can get past that, H will

:07:27.:07:29.

not say anymore other than H think it is now possible to get a better

:07:30.:07:33.

agreement for the NHS and I hope we will now be able to do that. Having

:07:34.:07:41.

been fortunate enough to he`r book for my junior doctors and also from

:07:42.:07:44.

the Secretary of State, it hs clear to me that both parties are talking

:07:45.:07:46.

the same language but the communication has not quite filtered

:07:47.:07:51.

through via the BMA. Once this matter is hopefully resolve the will

:07:52.:07:55.

be Secretary of State think of ways in which dialogue can be improved

:07:56.:07:58.

directly between the Departlent of Health and junior doctors? Ly

:07:59.:08:05.

honourable friend is absolutely right. We have had some verx

:08:06.:08:09.

unfortunate megaphone diplolacy over the recent months, but let le just

:08:10.:08:13.

say I hope now we can put that behind us and I hope now lessons

:08:14.:08:15.

will be learned because as he rightly said we have never wanted to

:08:16.:08:20.

do anything other than what I think is good for. Or is as well `s what

:08:21.:08:23.

is good for patients and th`t is what these proposals were. He should

:08:24.:08:32.

not -- it should not have come to this and there'll be cost the

:08:33.:08:37.

ablation of that but I welcomed the want of a cat to get to the states

:08:38.:08:40.

and hope the strike would bd diverted. Could the secondary is

:08:41.:08:47.

state attorney that the specific concerns are taken into

:08:48.:08:49.

consideration considering they are on site all the time and have

:08:50.:08:53.

particular concerns and of course that is essential in making sure

:08:54.:09:00.

that hospitals are safe. Thdy have a vital role in providing proper

:09:01.:09:05.

seven-day services and indedd in the highest risk operations it hs

:09:06.:09:07.

obvious we very important to have consultants present as well to give

:09:08.:09:12.

their very important judgemdnt I can absolutely get them that assurance.

:09:13.:09:20.

If this do disaster is avoided we have an opportunity to move forward.

:09:21.:09:24.

The honourable Lady Bird prdventing the opposition has offered her

:09:25.:09:26.

support. One of the crucial failings at the moment is seven-day care is

:09:27.:09:31.

social care. Would it be possible for both sides of the House to work

:09:32.:09:35.

together to find the solution to this real problem? I hope wd can do

:09:36.:09:42.

that because the opposition has talked regularly about soci`l care

:09:43.:09:47.

and rightly so and the fact is that there are labour on councils and

:09:48.:09:49.

conservative by counsel both responsible for the social care

:09:50.:09:54.

system and being able to discharge into the social care system is a

:09:55.:09:58.

very important part of seven-day services. I think we are now about

:09:59.:10:02.

to enter into a period of ilportant reform in terms of the NHS `nd

:10:03.:10:06.

social care integrations so I see no reason why that could not bd. Last

:10:07.:10:15.

Friday 321 consultants gave their full support to the junior doctors.

:10:16.:10:20.

It was the latest indication that the Secretary of State calldd this

:10:21.:10:22.

dispute wrong from the start. Yes now had an opportunity to rdbuild

:10:23.:10:27.

trust, would he accept that is not helped by him coming to the House

:10:28.:10:31.

and delegating junior doctors and their representatives again as he

:10:32.:10:33.

accept that is not helped bx him coming to the House and deldgating

:10:34.:10:35.

junior doctors and their representatives again at thd routine

:10:36.:10:38.

seven-day services with mortality of raids which is just not helpful I

:10:39.:10:44.

am afraid he is as ever completely wrong. First of all I have not

:10:45.:10:48.

delegated junior doctors I have spent a lot of time praising their

:10:49.:10:52.

absolutely vital contribution as the backbone of the NHS and secondly I

:10:53.:10:56.

have not completed routine services with mortality rates, in fact I have

:10:57.:11:00.

done the opposite in answer to the honourable lady I confirmed that we

:11:01.:11:04.

are talking about urgent and emergency care and making stre that

:11:05.:11:08.

services are consistently ddlivered for urgent and emergency care across

:11:09.:11:11.

the week. That is our priorhty and that does link to mortality rates.

:11:12.:11:19.

As the chairman of the alternative dispute resolution can I confirmed

:11:20.:11:23.

that it is always right to try to seek the amount of common ground

:11:24.:11:28.

that exist before going into a negotiation with a cast and anyone

:11:29.:11:34.

should not underestimate thd amount of common ground he has achheved in

:11:35.:11:37.

getting the eight Gass talks to gather. Would you like to s`y what

:11:38.:11:41.

it will now take to get the BMA to call off the strike. He is

:11:42.:11:46.

absolutely right. Let me sax what is the common ground here betwden the

:11:47.:11:49.

government and a junior doctors We want to make sure they are working

:11:50.:11:52.

the hours, we do not want to cut their pay. Favourite care for

:11:53.:11:57.

services -- for patients and the many junior doctors who do work

:11:58.:12:01.

weekends to get proper and public support at weekend as well `s during

:12:02.:12:06.

the week I think that is enough to come to a deal on. The health

:12:07.:12:12.

secretary as an bird with hhs approach that junior contact

:12:13.:12:16.

arrangements currently compromised patients or the. Can you tell us

:12:17.:12:21.

which hospital TV executives have actually confirmed to him that that

:12:22.:12:28.

is the case? Actually I can tell it was NHS providers, NHS employers

:12:29.:12:33.

represent all NHS hospital just saying that trust are clear that the

:12:34.:12:38.

current contracts for both consultants and junior doctors must

:12:39.:12:43.

be reformed to provide it modernized and save seven-day services and our

:12:44.:12:50.

hospitals. What assessment hs the Secretary of State made both of the

:12:51.:12:55.

cost but also wasted NHS resources resulting from any strike action? I

:12:56.:13:00.

cannot provide that information this afternoon because we do not yet

:13:01.:13:05.

know. Whether the strike is going to go ahead tomorrow and also, the

:13:06.:13:09.

operations will end up being cancelled in advance of that because

:13:10.:13:13.

of late notice but I am happy to get an answer when I have noticdd. This

:13:14.:13:22.

Junior Doctor dispute is not just about that we are very forttnate

:13:23.:13:25.

that we have such marvellous junior doctors. My concern is and H know

:13:26.:13:29.

their concern is about the changes in the proposed imposed contract

:13:30.:13:35.

would have on the Junior Doctor and that that would have such a negative

:13:36.:13:39.

impact on research and development which makes our National He`lth

:13:40.:13:42.

Service greatest in the world. Would you comment on the change in the

:13:43.:13:48.

contact impacted on the resdarch? Is there any chance in that? If there

:13:49.:13:55.

is not would you please say that it is absolutely essential. I will do

:13:56.:13:59.

neither of those things. Will soon discover whether the Secret`ry of

:14:00.:14:05.

State wishes to do either. Thank you Mr Speaker. I hope she can be

:14:06.:14:10.

reassured by the offer that the government made in November which

:14:11.:14:17.

has specific reduction for staff who need to do research that thd NHS

:14:18.:14:20.

needs them to do to make sure that they are not disadvantaged H doing

:14:21.:14:24.

any of that research. I'm h`ppy to write to two. The plans we have

:14:25.:14:32.

outlined. Does the Secretarx of State agree that rather than

:14:33.:14:34.

treating this issue as a political football which the party opposite

:14:35.:14:37.

appear to want to do they should take the advice of my honourable

:14:38.:14:41.

friend and both sides should sit down and treat this statement for

:14:42.:14:44.

the advice of my honourable friend and both sides should sit down and

:14:45.:14:46.

treat this statement with a cautious welcome is not that the Secretary of

:14:47.:14:49.

State agree that my constittents and are more concerned about thhs in

:14:50.:14:53.

safety and ensuring adequatd 20 47 care by other than playing politics

:14:54.:15:00.

of our NHS? I agree with th`t and I agree that improving seven-day

:15:01.:15:03.

services across the NHS shotld unite all services across the House and

:15:04.:15:08.

the government and the radical per pass medical profession. It is

:15:09.:15:11.

unfortunate that we are at the position we have gone to but there

:15:12.:15:13.

is an opportunity to get thhngs right and I hope that happens. I

:15:14.:15:19.

welcome the statement and I very much welcome the conversations that

:15:20.:15:22.

are going on, but there are many vulnerable and is that be bothered

:15:23.:15:26.

let hat letters today from their local hospital saying that their

:15:27.:15:30.

operation for tomorrow has been cancelled. Should we get good news

:15:31.:15:35.

later this evening, is it too late to allow those operations to take

:15:36.:15:39.

place bearing in mind in many rural constituencies and city

:15:40.:15:40.

constituencies that transport has to be arranged for those patients to

:15:41.:15:46.

turn up? My honourable friend is right to bring it back to p`tients

:15:47.:15:49.

which is what we should alw`ys be doing and help the baby puppy sadly

:15:50.:15:52.

I fear the majority of patidnts even if the strike is called off which I

:15:53.:15:57.

hope it is it will be too l`te to rebook people in tomorrow. We in the

:15:58.:16:01.

NHS will do everything we c`n to rebook a people and as quickly as we

:16:02.:16:06.

can. But he is right and th`t is one of the very sad thing that happens

:16:07.:16:09.

if people do not sit around the table and talk. I am grateftl to the

:16:10.:16:15.

Secretary of State and colldagues. We now come to the backbench

:16:16.:16:20.

business debate on the UK's role in the Middle East. Just beford I

:16:21.:16:23.

called the honourable judgelent to move the motion I should pohnt out

:16:24.:16:27.

that there is a very large number of would-be contributors to thhs

:16:28.:16:34.

debate. Brad Barritt disturbing proportion of them are not xet in

:16:35.:16:39.

the chamber. -- rather disttrbing. I hope that that will be remedied

:16:40.:16:43.

before long. We do not want standards to slip. Every melber has

:16:44.:16:53.

a responsibility to keep an eye on the annunciator, the honour`ble

:16:54.:16:57.

gentleman says it started to zoom. It may have started too soon for

:16:58.:17:01.

them but not for the honour`ble gentleman who typically is hn its

:17:02.:17:04.

place at the appropriate tile and we are grateful to him as indedd are a

:17:05.:17:08.

great many others to move the ocean I called. Develop. Figure Mr Baker I

:17:09.:17:15.

would like to move the motion as it is stated on the order paper. Mr

:17:16.:17:20.

Speaker Pursley May I think the Backbench Business Committed for

:17:21.:17:23.

granting this debate and for the death Kevin de Bruyne three

:17:24.:17:26.

colleagues who supported me in securing this opportunity to discuss

:17:27.:17:33.

this more most important subject at this most critical at times. I would

:17:34.:17:39.

like to thank the members for their support. The importance of this epic

:17:40.:17:43.

to the House can be seen by the very fact the committee has seen fit to

:17:44.:17:47.

allocate a full day to its discussion and to the number of

:17:48.:17:50.

members who are present herd today and have indicated that thex would

:17:51.:17:54.

like to contribute. At the outset and innovating this debate H fear it

:17:55.:18:00.

the latest and comment on md to it knowledge ties to the Middld East

:18:01.:18:04.

and to state my belief that with this unique history companids pestle

:18:05.:18:07.

responsibility to continue to engage with the stiff cold yet crucial area

:18:08.:18:13.

of the world. I am sure the Minister will like to say more about the

:18:14.:18:18.

historic weeks links to the region later on. In the short time since I

:18:19.:18:22.

made my initial application to the Backbench Business Committed we have

:18:23.:18:25.

seen numerous developments relevant to the topic of today's deb`te. Ever

:18:26.:18:29.

Russian passenger planes blown out of the sky over the pineapple

:18:30.:18:33.

mantilla. A suicide terrorist attack in Beirut, more like walk in the

:18:34.:18:38.

Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the first full parliamentary eldctions

:18:39.:18:43.

in Egypt, a deadly bomb att`ck in Tunisia. Have delete my tragic event

:18:44.:18:52.

in Marat. The Downing of a Russian jet by the Turkish Air Forcd. The

:18:53.:18:57.

unanimous passing of the UN resolution 2249 as well as

:18:58.:18:58.

increasing anti-Semitic att`cks against Europe and violent clashes

:18:59.:19:02.

with UK Muslim community thhs weekend alone to attempt to towards

:19:03.:19:11.

mosque took place and this hs not an exhausting list. These events alone

:19:12.:19:15.

serve as a minor of challenges we and the international committee face

:19:16.:19:19.

when it comes to interest understanding issues and how to deal

:19:20.:19:23.

with them. Before and during my time serving this chamber I have child

:19:24.:19:27.

extensively in the region and worked as a doctor among Muslim colmunities

:19:28.:19:32.

in the UK for seeking to dedpen my understanding. I lay no clahm to the

:19:33.:19:35.

answers but one thing has always struck me as essential. That is the

:19:36.:19:40.

need to take a coherent and competence of approach across the

:19:41.:19:43.

Middle East as able and to recognise the shoots and roots of the threat

:19:44.:19:48.

emanating from that region which are growing in our own society. There

:19:49.:19:53.

are many such risk and thre`ts to confront and they are linked across

:19:54.:19:58.

the whole region and are colplex, tribal and ethnic loyalties, old

:19:59.:20:03.

world ties, religious differences, centuries-old conflict, both of

:20:04.:20:07.

which transcend national borders. These all be double the reghon. The

:20:08.:20:12.

consequent instability inevhtably build over into mass displacement of

:20:13.:20:16.

people and consequent humanhtarian need. The serious global war, the

:20:17.:20:22.

Yemen Civil War, the Libyan Civil War and the ongoing conflict between

:20:23.:20:26.

Israel and the Palestinians. As a consequence, many have been sucked

:20:27.:20:30.

and continue to be sucked in as global actors, proxy wars abound.

:20:31.:20:35.

Saudi versus Iran, US against Russia. A huge rain and back there

:20:36.:20:42.

is our involved in the Vienna process as evidence of this and

:20:43.:20:46.

there are also historical challenges, changing borders

:20:47.:20:50.

resulting in diverse communhties within national borders. Colonial

:20:51.:20:57.

powers are maligned influence, US Russia and since 1979 what `ppears

:20:58.:21:00.

to be a continuing battle bdtween Shia and Sunni. Within this complex

:21:01.:21:07.

situation, the House is soon to be asked to decide whether UK `ir

:21:08.:21:10.

strikes should be extended hnto Syria. Actually, I do not fhnd this

:21:11.:21:15.

a difficult question. We must be clear though as to why we are

:21:16.:21:20.

proceeding in this way. Firstly we must not. Must not declare war on my

:21:21.:21:26.

fifth. We must not legitimise these barbarians in that way. Unlhke them,

:21:27.:21:33.

we are not met Ito religious crusaders. What we should do is help

:21:34.:21:39.

eradicate the people anywhere who abuse authorities allege to be had

:21:40.:21:43.

children, systematically raped women, kill people whose religious

:21:44.:21:49.

views or ways of life are not the as their own, whose extortion of terror

:21:50.:21:51.

and hatred make it impossible for people to live in the territory they

:21:52.:21:56.

control. The commit murder `nd spread terror and other parts of the

:21:57.:22:01.

world. Such people are not worthy of whatever God in whose name they

:22:02.:22:06.

claim to act. This is why I support the Prime Minister's propos`l to

:22:07.:22:10.

extend air strikes into the ungoverned space of eastern Syria.

:22:11.:22:14.

For the record I would have supported military action to create

:22:15.:22:17.

safe havens for people in 2011 and they would have included Syria when

:22:18.:22:22.

air strikes against Isis Dydss began in 2014. As I regard the current

:22:23.:22:27.

circumstances where the RAF can find to flow and the not destroy it is

:22:28.:22:33.

nonsense. The threat from them is clear and present. The legal

:22:34.:22:37.

justification is strong and it is right that Britain should play a

:22:38.:22:40.

leading role with its allies Andy Roddick 80- Dyess from the face of

:22:41.:22:47.

the earth. -- eradicating Isis fast. Question is how we use military

:22:48.:22:52.

force to Bishop on the started and honest political point. I do not

:22:53.:22:55.

believe we yet have a sufficient answer. Military action nevdr have

:22:56.:23:01.

reliable outcomes and it's threads fear and chaos. Air strikes will do

:23:02.:23:05.

more harm than good as civilian casualties rise and infrastructure

:23:06.:23:09.

is destroyed. Strikes are not is beside the game changer. I believe

:23:10.:23:12.

they are an important part of a bigger effort. Air strikes lay be

:23:13.:23:18.

our only hope of getting and keeping parties in the theory and Chvil War

:23:19.:23:22.

around the table. But we must be clear about who we are fighting for

:23:23.:23:28.

and how military action in. Our focus must be on building the ten or

:23:29.:23:32.

20 years table and face and forced the need to generate B spacd needed

:23:33.:23:37.

for lasting solutions to be found. I suspect that we will have to

:23:38.:23:39.

contribute ground forces at some point and we must rapidly evolve a

:23:40.:23:45.

new sort of international action capability if we are to facd up to

:23:46.:23:49.

the immense task of social `nd physical reconstruction. Thhs needs

:23:50.:23:54.

people capable of building foundations which underpinndd

:23:55.:23:57.

stability. Political reform, economic development, legal systems,

:23:58.:24:03.

education and the the creathon of opportunity for young peopld

:24:04.:24:07.

engaging all people not just political elites. The government

:24:08.:24:10.

stabilisation unit is a start. It must be built into be sort of

:24:11.:24:14.

capability that the king of Jordan once described as an army of who

:24:15.:24:19.

overall not blue helmets. The scope of today's debate is delivered to be

:24:20.:24:25.

broad and there are three mdssages I hope it will convey to our country.

:24:26.:24:29.

Every individual, every comlunity here in the UK has a stake hn the

:24:30.:24:35.

direction the government chooses to take any Middle East and towards the

:24:36.:24:38.

threat and risk which emanate from there. This is not about thd

:24:39.:24:44.

immediate questions of forehgn policy or military action it is

:24:45.:24:48.

about our future way of lifd to How we educate our children, how we

:24:49.:24:51.

welcome and integrate refugdes, how we teach respect and loyaltx for our

:24:52.:24:57.

country, our values traditions and laws. All these things affect

:24:58.:25:01.

whether or not our generation will deal with the issues relevant to

:25:02.:25:07.

today's debate. It is also true that we are and will remain at hhgh risk

:25:08.:25:12.

of the fact -- attack rotting our bombing campaign against Ishs will I

:25:13.:25:17.

fear increase that risk. Th`t is not a reason not to act. I belidve that

:25:18.:25:21.

the majority of the British public understand that the front lhne

:25:22.:25:25.

against Islamic stream is hhm is not just in Raqqa but it is also here on

:25:26.:25:30.

the streets of Britain. Gond are the days of wars being fought in distant

:25:31.:25:36.

lands. The past could be a provincial shopping centre of

:25:37.:25:42.

tomorrow. Until we stop our society and new generations of radicalised

:25:43.:25:45.

young people, until we stop sheltering people who wish our

:25:46.:25:48.

society ill. Until we achieve a fully integrated society ond in

:25:49.:25:55.

which values are shared on the laws are respected and loyalty to Queen

:25:56.:25:58.

and country is separate frol loyalty to a religion. Will not be secure.

:25:59.:26:06.

The risk of atrocity will rdmain. Second point, we must act any Middle

:26:07.:26:11.

East. We must do so now and we must act much more decisively and comp

:26:12.:26:14.

rapidly than ever before. Recognising where we need to do more

:26:15.:26:19.

to achieve the long-term effects we want. Often in the past we have been

:26:20.:26:24.

too narrow and react to. In the West we have tended to suffer from

:26:25.:26:28.

chronic short-term -ism. Those who have travelled in the region can

:26:29.:26:32.

attest to the differences of time in our respective world. We have been a

:26:33.:26:35.

leader to the interconnected nature of the risk and threat and stiff

:26:36.:26:40.

engagement is just not an option. But our approach must changd. Of

:26:41.:26:46.

above all we must recognise the threat of Islamist extremisl and the

:26:47.:26:51.

conditions allowing it to flourish and illuminate them all. Not just

:26:52.:26:57.

its latest iteration Isis. We must remain credible consistent `nd

:26:58.:27:00.

reliable partners to our regional and international allies in the

:27:01.:27:05.

struggle. This must come with understanding that our allids are

:27:06.:27:08.

often imperfect. We must thhs thing was carefully between regional

:27:09.:27:13.

governments battling extremhsm and its regional supporters. We must

:27:14.:27:17.

deal where of the ever-changing balance of power across the region

:27:18.:27:23.

and that power is shifting `way from he leads to people on the street.

:27:24.:27:30.

Arabic social media is an extraordinary force. We also need to

:27:31.:27:33.

assess the relative power of religion, tribal loyalties `nd

:27:34.:27:37.

national identities which in some countries are still quite strong.

:27:38.:27:43.

For example, some have detected a reduction in legit adherencd

:27:44.:27:48.

especially amongst the young. Of accurate, this phenomenon would be

:27:49.:27:52.

hugely significant. We must accept that reform takes time on influence

:27:53.:27:57.

and patient engagement not hn position and insistence. We must be

:27:58.:28:04.

pragmatic treating the world as it is not as we wish to be. We must

:28:05.:28:09.

better recognise trends, we did not see the Arabs spring or Isis coming

:28:10.:28:14.

for to long we have played the equivalent of a child's gamd of

:28:15.:28:17.

whack a mole with threats and challenges emanating from the

:28:18.:28:22.

region. We deal or half deal with one symptom for another to pop up

:28:23.:28:28.

elsewhere. We are not yet on a path to defeat because as of tod`y's wars

:28:29.:28:33.

and instability were to deal with challenges fast coming down the

:28:34.:28:39.

line. Is canned and must ch`nge Our national and international lachinery

:28:40.:28:41.

of government must be strengthened to bring about that change. Our

:28:42.:28:47.

strategic focus must be a more scalable region, the Vienna process

:28:48.:28:53.

it a welcome sight that necdssary powers may wake up to the effort

:28:54.:28:56.

that a long-term solution in Syria will take. We must wake up hn the

:28:57.:29:01.

same way to the whole region. Is neighbourhood including the Gulf

:29:02.:29:06.

states Iran and Israel has ` vital role. It must become a biggdr part

:29:07.:29:10.

of the solution and stop behng part of the problem. This will not happen

:29:11.:29:17.

without much stronger institutional machinery and sustained

:29:18.:29:17.

international attention. This is not an excuse for not

:29:18.:29:28.

acting, but it should deterline our priorities. Finally, my third point,

:29:29.:29:33.

Parliament, this chamber, h`s an important constructive role, not

:29:34.:29:38.

just in holding successive governments to account what it is

:29:39.:29:42.

too late, but ensuring that it shapes policies in the first place,

:29:43.:29:46.

but during our nations and our constituents asked interest, our

:29:47.:29:50.

current range of interventions in the middle east are not yet on track

:29:51.:29:55.

to end well. In some cases, we have already seen the effects in Libya

:29:56.:29:59.

and the recent refugee crishs, others will play out over the coming

:30:00.:30:04.

decades, we must set ourselves up to succeed as a nation, and not to

:30:05.:30:10.

fail, we must consider our tent 20, indeed their two-year priorities

:30:11.:30:16.

as well as any immediate threats. The education of the next gdneration

:30:17.:30:20.

and the emancipation of womdn are crucially important, the Brhtish

:30:21.:30:24.

consulate is doing good work in these areas particularly within the

:30:25.:30:28.

refugee camps along the Syrhan border, work rank this must be

:30:29.:30:33.

better funded and expanded further throughout the region, for H have

:30:34.:30:36.

long believed that a deputy speaker that we need a maitre d' strategy

:30:37.:30:40.

similar to that and ready commissioned by the Gulf st`tes

:30:41.:30:45.

Here might Deputy Speaker I must declare an interest as my whfe

:30:46.:30:50.

wrote, a newly adopted UK strategy toward the goal. Developing such a

:30:51.:30:55.

comprehensive strategy towards the Middle East would have, of course be

:30:56.:31:00.

a large undertaking requiring proper funding, it would certainly be worth

:31:01.:31:07.

our while. Britain already off course contributes a great deal its

:31:08.:31:13.

humanitarian aid militarily dramatically, we support our allies

:31:14.:31:20.

we are strong and steadfast partner, this intervention, this

:31:21.:31:24.

military intervention that hs proposed once beat a game changer,

:31:25.:31:28.

but our brainpower, I would the dramatic clouds, and respect within

:31:29.:31:32.

which we are held throughout the region very well could be. Let me be

:31:33.:31:38.

clear, I believe that the most valuable role Britain can play in

:31:39.:31:41.

the Middle East is to give the world a plan, for peace and stability in

:31:42.:31:47.

the region. In closing, a word of caution from Winston Churchhll, want

:31:48.:31:52.

of foresight, unwillingness to act with action would be simple and

:31:53.:31:56.

effective, lack of clear thhnking, confusion of counsel until the

:31:57.:32:00.

emergency comes, and self preservation strikes, these are the

:32:01.:32:06.

features which constitutes the endless repetition of history. Of

:32:07.:32:12.

such a moment in the regions history, it is important th`t we

:32:13.:32:17.

step back, there is huge scope for miscalculation, it would be easy to

:32:18.:32:19.

sleepwalk into a new Back above all we must challenge

:32:20.:32:33.

ourselves. It is time he pahd more and attention to a way out of this

:32:34.:32:39.

chaos. The iPod was the Daesh state must be prevented. To this

:32:40.:32:43.

generation of political leaders about the responsibility of

:32:44.:32:47.

delivering a comprehensive, long-term strategy for two Liddle

:32:48.:32:51.

East. So as to achieve that noble goal. It will require patience,

:32:52.:32:57.

courage, and determination. By applying ourselves properly, I

:32:58.:33:01.

believe we can secure our children's future into our country

:33:02.:33:09.

and the wider world a great service. The question is that this House

:33:10.:33:12.

considered the UK's role in the Middle East.

:33:13.:33:21.

So, I will put a restriction on the backbench speeches to begin with, of

:33:22.:33:28.

seven minutes. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a gre`t

:33:29.:33:34.

pleasure to follow that widd-ranging and comprehensive speech from the

:33:35.:33:38.

honourable member for Bracknell It is well set out the problems that we

:33:39.:33:43.

face, and the outrage that people feel when they look at the dvents

:33:44.:33:47.

that are created following the horrific actions of the death cult

:33:48.:33:53.

of Daesh. Decry it is something must be done. We are always being asked,

:33:54.:34:01.

how can Britain intervened, what can we do to put it right? One of the

:34:02.:34:09.

best writers I have seen an intervention, says intervention is

:34:10.:34:16.

unpredictable, chaotic, uncdrtain, often prevents local leaders from

:34:17.:34:21.

taking responsibility, does not put pressure on settlements between

:34:22.:34:24.

enemies, and are often crippled by the frequent changing aims of

:34:25.:34:30.

intervening governments. I have to say, I think that sums up what does

:34:31.:34:36.

happen when you intervened. It is from that reality based, th`t we

:34:37.:34:41.

have to decide, very soon, whether or not we as a country take over

:34:42.:34:48.

intervention from Iraq, and consider intervention in Syria. One of the

:34:49.:34:52.

things that worries me about this proposal, of intervention in Syria

:34:53.:34:58.

is about our capability. Not capability in terms of whether or

:34:59.:35:04.

not our Armed Forces are actually determined enough, whether they are

:35:05.:35:09.

skilled enough, but actuallx whether or not they have the capability in

:35:10.:35:16.

terms of platforms. If we look at the Gulf War, 1991, we had 36 fast

:35:17.:35:23.

jet squadrons, today we havd seven. Only three of which are tornado

:35:24.:35:32.

squadrons. We have eight tornado GR for aircraft in Cyprus, that have

:35:33.:35:40.

flown 1600 missions and carried 300 -- 360 air strikes. No one has told

:35:41.:35:46.

us how often in those missions, those aircraft had to turn back at

:35:47.:35:50.

the Syrian border. I would like some facts on that. We are saying we have

:35:51.:35:56.

to intervene, yet we do not know the facts. Let us get them back there.

:35:57.:36:02.

We carried out one strike in formations, a strikingly modest

:36:03.:36:06.

contribution. The tornadoes argued to be decommissioned in 2018, 2 19,

:36:07.:36:13.

the pain had a pilot in the navigator, but we have got ` limited

:36:14.:36:17.

number of planes, limited ntmber of pilots, and a shortage of n`vigators

:36:18.:36:22.

for the GR for. We originally had six brains in Cyprus, now wd have

:36:23.:36:26.

got eight, we need eight because they need considerable maintenance,

:36:27.:36:31.

and use of spare parts in the other pins to keep them flying, wd

:36:32.:36:35.

increased it to eight. Let ts be clear. We need eight planes in

:36:36.:36:41.

Cyprus to fly two. The torn`do is an incredibly liveable attack plane,

:36:42.:36:46.

capable of carrying 12 of the much talked about first, missiles, it is

:36:47.:36:54.

better which is where the tornado exhales. Where the top typhoon

:36:55.:37:00.

exhales, but the typhoon dods not carry it. We need to know, how many

:37:01.:37:05.

tornado pilots, navigators, and ground crew would be needed to

:37:06.:37:10.

maintain and armour planes to extend our mission into Syria. Is ht going

:37:11.:37:15.

to be the same eight planes? Or are we going to add to those pl`nes If

:37:16.:37:19.

so, where are those planes coming from? Where are the planes `nd crews

:37:20.:37:25.

currently deployed? What missions will we need to these? Or ddcrease

:37:26.:37:31.

to actually allow them to fly in Syria? And very importantly, will

:37:32.:37:38.

harm guidelines be breached for those crews because that is a vital

:37:39.:37:41.

question we need to know thd answer to. The Prime Minister told us last

:37:42.:37:47.

week that 70% of the territory held by Daesh in Iraq is still to be

:37:48.:37:55.

recaptured. Over 360 strike missions have only helped to regain 30% of

:37:56.:38:03.

the territory over the last year. On that point, she has made a very

:38:04.:38:08.

powerful speech. We went to Iraq, at the time it was clear to me that

:38:09.:38:14.

what we heard was that the Sunni tribes, we made a number of their

:38:15.:38:18.

leaders, wanted an army to take on ice. This was not happening, it was

:38:19.:38:23.

essential to bring about a proper solution here. Thank you for your

:38:24.:38:30.

intervention, you are right, the critical issue is how we engage the

:38:31.:38:36.

Sunni tribes in fighting for their own future, how we ensure the Sunni

:38:37.:38:40.

are an integral part of the change that is needed both in Iraq and in

:38:41.:38:46.

Syria. Without them, or intdrvention is a nonsense and a completd waste

:38:47.:38:57.

of time. I was also on the same trip, in the north of Iraq rather

:38:58.:39:02.

than the Shia in Baghdad, one of the greatest forces that we havd in Iraq

:39:03.:39:06.

and potentially also in Syrha are the Peshmerga. Thank you for your

:39:07.:39:14.

question, he says absolutelx valiantly on the defence colmittee

:39:15.:39:19.

with me, I know how much work he did on that trip, on that visit where we

:39:20.:39:27.

really delved deeply into why the capability and the success of the

:39:28.:39:31.

intervention was. Yes, of course the Peshmerga art tremendous assets

:39:32.:39:34.

they are a great fighting force they are not going to fight

:39:35.:39:40.

everywhere in Iraq. They want to focus on their own area, and they

:39:41.:39:44.

want to focus on protecting Kurdish lands and Kurdish people. They are

:39:45.:39:51.

not the Iraqi Armed Forces, they are the Kurdish Armed Forces. So the

:39:52.:39:56.

Prime Minister told us last week that we are going to regain Morstead

:39:57.:40:02.

territory. I don't want us to transfer our limited intervdntional

:40:03.:40:09.

divinity from Iraq to Syria, and December 2015, our military presence

:40:10.:40:12.

in Iraq outside of the Kurdhsh region was three individuals, we met

:40:13.:40:19.

them. Formations there are critical to preventing Daesh spreading across

:40:20.:40:25.

Iraq. I would urge everyone present to read the report that the defence

:40:26.:40:28.

select committee produced in January of this year, outlining the problems

:40:29.:40:34.

that we were facing in Iraq, and the capability that we had to intervene

:40:35.:40:41.

there. Reports state that wd saw no evidence of the UK Government

:40:42.:40:45.

seeking to analyse, question, or change Coalition strategy to which

:40:46.:40:51.

it is committed. Ministers, and officers failed to set out ` clear

:40:52.:40:56.

strategy for a rack a Christian definition of the operations. We saw

:40:57.:41:00.

no evidence of an energised policy debates, reviewing our arguhng

:41:01.:41:04.

options for deeper engagement. I will certainly give way. Is also the

:41:05.:41:10.

case that if you are going to do if an attack you need to be able to

:41:11.:41:12.

collaborate with forces on the ground to report to you the targets

:41:13.:41:16.

and whether you have been stccessful or not in attack? That is exactly

:41:17.:41:23.

the information that we need to Attacks have been made by otr

:41:24.:41:27.

planes. What we do not know is how badly they were. Were they

:41:28.:41:31.

successful, are they making a difference? Yet here we are talking

:41:32.:41:35.

about intervening somewhere else when we do not even know how

:41:36.:41:38.

successful our intervention has been in Iraq. The expensively tr`ined and

:41:39.:41:45.

equipped Iraqi Army fell ap`rt when confronted by Daesh come thd Army

:41:46.:41:51.

has to be structural issues, poor quality leadership, and a sdctarian

:41:52.:41:55.

divide which must be addressed before any real progress in

:41:56.:42:00.

combating Daesh is possible. The brutality of the fear Bale finishes

:42:01.:42:07.

force Sunni tribes into seehng Daesh as the safer alternative. That is

:42:08.:42:12.

never moved away that recognition. Senior record, it is possibly

:42:13.:42:19.

difficult that we cannot make this happen in Iraq, what chance do we

:42:20.:42:26.

have in Syria? What is the basis of the sectarian divide, is it simply

:42:27.:42:30.

region? Visit also the age-old strategy of divide and rule, get

:42:31.:42:33.

groups fighting between thelselves and I love the corruption, the

:42:34.:42:37.

repression of the autocratic regime to continue, the property to grow?

:42:38.:42:42.

Young men turn to jihad -isl when there is no work, no hope for the

:42:43.:42:48.

future? In Syria, there is no compelling image for the future and

:42:49.:42:53.

no leaders to rally behind, a state in the midst of civil war. @t least

:42:54.:42:57.

in Syria, there is nothing that will pull people together, in Ir`q we

:42:58.:43:04.

have potential. There is a Shia president I'm not a Sunni ddfence

:43:05.:43:10.

minister, and a wonderful Ktrdish president. I congratulate mx

:43:11.:43:23.

Honorable friend, the number for Bracknell on securing this debate

:43:24.:43:27.

and on his very thoughtful introduction to it. Hear, hdar! I

:43:28.:43:34.

share the outrage aroused bx the atrocities in Paris, Tunisi`,

:43:35.:43:40.

Sinai, and elsewhere. Any action necessary to protect Britain from

:43:41.:43:43.

similar horrors will have mx full support, especially if we c`n

:43:44.:43:49.

simultaneously deliver fellow Christians and other minorities from

:43:50.:43:54.

the temerity of the Isil regime But, I still need to be persuaded

:43:55.:43:58.

that the government's policx is likely to be effective and

:43:59.:44:03.

realistic. I want to be persuaded, but let me spell out my concerns and

:44:04.:44:10.

doubts. Above all, we must learn the lessons of experience, from

:44:11.:44:14.

Afghanistan, from Iraq, frol Libya, all of which continue to hatnt us.

:44:15.:44:19.

Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity is to keep on doing the

:44:20.:44:25.

same thing and expecting a different outcome. My colleagues are dminently

:44:26.:44:31.

sane, I hope they have learned what I believe are the three lessons

:44:32.:44:38.

three key lessons of recent history. First, it is comparatively dasy to

:44:39.:44:43.

destroy a regime, but second it is next to impossible to install a new

:44:44.:44:47.

regime or defeat an insurgency by air power alone without boots on the

:44:48.:44:52.

ground. Jokes prepared to stay there for long term, preferably bdcause it

:44:53.:44:57.

is their country, and third the only thing worse than a nickel rdgime, is

:44:58.:45:04.

chaos and anarchy that may replace it. Bashed to radical. I nedd

:45:05.:45:09.

persuading first, that if wd join the bombing campaign, it will be in

:45:10.:45:12.

support of forces capable of retaining ground that air power may

:45:13.:45:18.

hope clear. In Iraq we are supporting the Iraqi and Kurdish

:45:19.:45:23.

forces and if it is militarhly necessary to take action across the

:45:24.:45:26.

board in their defence that is fine by me. As far as Syria is concerned,

:45:27.:45:34.

the 70,000 opposition fightdrs Principi of the free Syrian army

:45:35.:45:37.

which do not belong to extrdmist groups. Is the Honorable melber

:45:38.:45:46.

aware that when the select committee was in Iraq we were told th`t there

:45:47.:45:53.

were one Shia fighters alond willing to combat Daesh? Do we not have a

:45:54.:46:00.

greater chance in Iraq and hn Syria? A very good points that the

:46:01.:46:02.

Honorable Lady made, she made an extremely good speech. But, I would

:46:03.:46:09.

like to believe this free Sxrian army is more than a label attached

:46:10.:46:15.

to a ragbag of travel trips and personal armies with no cohdrent

:46:16.:46:18.

command structure. I would like to believe that they are moder`te, when

:46:19.:46:23.

I was doing a study of the config any years ago, I examined m`ny

:46:24.:46:26.

similar situations that the world and concluded that it is ne`rly a

:46:27.:46:31.

law of human nature where pdople there at the disintegration of a

:46:32.:46:35.

state, they rally to the most forceful and extreme advocates of

:46:36.:46:39.

their group. In the circumstances, there are no moderates, so H this

:46:40.:46:44.

too will have to rely on sole pretty violent and unpleasant forcds. I

:46:45.:46:48.

would like to believe that there will be an effective fighting force,

:46:49.:46:54.

but in October, General Lloxd wasted, he reported to Senate that

:46:55.:46:58.

the programme to train some 540 moderate Syrians each year but it

:46:59.:47:04.

cost a $500 million, so far had produced just four or five fighters

:47:05.:47:11.

that could be counted on ond hand, I would like to be convinced that if

:47:12.:47:14.

these moderates fighting forces exist they can be persuaded to fight

:47:15.:47:19.

the Islamists rather than Assad who they consider their main endmy up

:47:20.:47:33.

until now. Isn't the issue for the government contemplating air

:47:34.:47:35.

strikes, the question who do they get in touch with on the ground that

:47:36.:47:41.

we would co-ordinate with? Ly Honorable friend is absolutdly

:47:42.:47:45.

right, it is far from clear that without trained forces, and we have

:47:46.:47:48.

seen nearly filled to in tr`ining any, we could do that. My sdcond

:47:49.:47:55.

area of concern is this aerhal bombardment in Syria, what ht

:47:56.:47:58.

actually help prevent terror on our streets in Britain. And not one of

:47:59.:48:04.

those who believe we should hold back from bombing Isil for fear of

:48:05.:48:07.

provoking more terrorism. Even if there were such a risk to allow a

:48:08.:48:12.

handful of terrorists to determine British policy would be cow`rdly in

:48:13.:48:17.

the extreme. In any case, the truth is that these extreme Islamhsts

:48:18.:48:21.

attack is not because of wh`t we do, but because of what we are. The

:48:22.:48:27.

preamble to the memorandum to the Senate committee states that it is

:48:28.:48:32.

from Raqqa that some of the main threads planned against this country

:48:33.:48:36.

are planned and orchestrated. I would like to believe it is as

:48:37.:48:42.

simple as taking out a comm`nd and control system to prevent the main

:48:43.:48:44.

threats of terrorism in this country. Yet, even in that document

:48:45.:48:50.

than detailing the seven plots foiled by Isil, security forces in

:48:51.:48:54.

the last 12 months, that cl`im is watered down to saying that those

:48:55.:49:01.

parts were merely linked to Isil, or inspired by Isil's Ogando the truth

:49:02.:49:07.

is the atrocities we have sden in Britain and France were also

:49:08.:49:12.

invariably carried out by home-grown terrorist, many of them werd

:49:13.:49:19.

inspired by our propaganda or a previous suicide bomber's and

:49:20.:49:23.

terrorists. I have not seen any evidence that they would control a

:49:24.:49:28.

long dispatch from Raqqa. Those parts were hatched in Brussdls, not

:49:29.:49:33.

in Syria. If French and Belgian security forces on the ground could

:49:34.:49:36.

not identify and stop them, it is pretty unlikely that any pl`ns being

:49:37.:49:41.

hatched in Syria could be prevented by precision bombing from 30 to

:49:42.:49:47.

about 30,000 feet. In any c`se, the fact that one horrifying atrocity

:49:48.:49:50.

photos another does not mean that they are directed and controlled by

:49:51.:49:54.

a single organisation. We h`ve seen horrifying school bombings hn

:49:55.:49:58.

America, one following another, example leading to another. That

:49:59.:50:04.

does not mean that there was a controlling mind to them. The third

:50:05.:50:12.

reason I have my concerns, hs that we are led to believe that there is

:50:13.:50:17.

a degrading and disrupting Hsil will reduce the flood of refugees. As I

:50:18.:50:22.

understand it, and I am open to correction, scarcely any of the

:50:23.:50:27.

refugees coming to us or evdn going over the border to Turkey come from

:50:28.:50:31.

the iso- controlled areas. Ly fear is if we bomb, reduce, and disrupt

:50:32.:50:39.

the area a month that would add to the flow of migrants into Etrope.

:50:40.:50:47.

The truth is, that the real reason that the government wishes to join

:50:48.:50:53.

the operations in Syria is that we want to join with our US allies It

:50:54.:50:59.

is the default position of friends that we should support Amerhca

:51:00.:51:03.

unless there is good reason not to. That is a default position which I

:51:04.:51:08.

hold, when there are doubts and reasons not to, we should argue and

:51:09.:51:13.

persuade our colleagues to change their strategy before we john in. We

:51:14.:51:21.

are celebrating this year, the 7th year of the birth of Howard Wolfson,

:51:22.:51:24.

his great achievement was to remain in the closest ally of the Tnited

:51:25.:51:29.

States not being drawn into the Vietnam War. I believe we should

:51:30.:51:33.

learn from that example, and if my doubts cannot be cleared up, hold

:51:34.:51:37.

back rather than join in with our friends and allies in their

:51:38.:51:43.

endeavors which possibly ard doomed to failure unless they have boots on

:51:44.:51:46.

the ground to support the bombs from the air. I will begin by also

:51:47.:51:56.

thinking the honourable gentleman for Bracknell in securing this

:51:57.:52:00.

debate. One of the first thhngs I was able to do in this housd was

:52:01.:52:06.

secure a debate in the case which I know the Minister understands my

:52:07.:52:10.

interest in. Since then, I have developed something of an insight

:52:11.:52:14.

into how the UK sees its relations with countries such as Audi Arabia.

:52:15.:52:19.

A country which indeed is cultivating a second Syria `nd

:52:20.:52:25.

Yemen. Madam Deputy Speaker, we are continuously given assurancds that

:52:26.:52:28.

Britain is working hard behhnd the scenes in ways which may not be

:52:29.:52:33.

immediately apparent in orddr to secure concrete and durable change.

:52:34.:52:37.

I do not doubt for a moment that this is the case, I stand hdre in

:52:38.:52:41.

what is possibly the most self-satisfied legislature hn the

:52:42.:52:46.

world. The mother of all parliaments, I have no doubt that

:52:47.:52:51.

people on these benches which to see concepts of democracy, civil

:52:52.:52:54.

society, and the rule of law. Things that they consider to be thdir own,

:52:55.:52:59.

exported to other countries in the Middle East. The problem is a

:53:00.:53:04.

reality in which the idea h`s yet to arrive. There are too many hn this

:53:05.:53:08.

house whose idea of intervention goes back to a previous timd, when

:53:09.:53:13.

asked to administer last wedk about the protection of minorities in the

:53:14.:53:19.

inevitable conflicts, I my puestion by competing the Middle East to the

:53:20.:53:24.

below you will pop up a century ago. I did so expressly, the fact is that

:53:25.:53:29.

there has been a small group of peoples from the wider region over

:53:30.:53:33.

that period and I cannot help but see this country own hand bdhind it.

:53:34.:53:40.

It was David Lloyd George who said the template for UK foreign policy

:53:41.:53:45.

in the modern era, financing, encouraging a disastrous Grdek

:53:46.:53:48.

invasion of Asia minor, an `ction which ended in flames and a Pontic

:53:49.:53:55.

Greek population which had predicted Homer was destroyed. Even the

:53:56.:53:59.

greatest leaders cannot seel to help but overstretch themselves. He

:54:00.:54:05.

thought he had no choice but to install them as regent in Iraq. A

:54:06.:54:09.

region which was to empower a possibly the greatest Jewish city on

:54:10.:54:14.

Earth, Baghdad, was cleansed of that Jewish population. Recently, with a

:54:15.:54:21.

strip by Minister has led us back to the often overlooked the war in Iraq

:54:22.:54:28.

was the setting to flight of one of the oldest Christian populations in

:54:29.:54:33.

the world. Madam Deputy Spe`ker I do not offer these examples as a

:54:34.:54:36.

reason as to why we should not intervene in Syria, if anything we

:54:37.:54:46.

do not demonstrate the inefficacy of UK intervention, only that tsed more

:54:47.:54:50.

often than not has unintenddd consequences. I do not doubt that

:54:51.:54:55.

there is a robust military plans, and the military forces which are

:54:56.:54:59.

surely the best in the world will have the vector of the Ashbx from

:55:00.:55:04.

the air or on the ground. It is what we are reiterating that we on these

:55:05.:55:07.

benches are not a pacifist party, the Prime Minister would do well to

:55:08.:55:12.

remember that. Of course, it goes without saying that something must

:55:13.:55:17.

be done, specifically to those who stop at the heart of Paris `

:55:18.:55:22.

fortnight ago, but the lesson we take of history is that it hs not

:55:23.:55:25.

enough to see that something must be done. I beseech the Prime Mhnister

:55:26.:55:31.

to show that he understands our unease and that he is unabld to put

:55:32.:55:34.

the immediate problem at hand into the wider context in which ht

:55:35.:55:41.

exists. Let us be in no doubt there is a wider problem facing as a

:55:42.:55:45.

result of the Europe of 1914, from West Africa to the background to the

:55:46.:55:52.

end of the Arabian Peninsul`, from the caucuses to Kashmir is ` series

:55:53.:55:58.

of insurgencies, civil wars, failed states, that we are often unable or

:55:59.:56:04.

unwilling to confront. My principle there is that in choosing D`esh in

:56:05.:56:09.

Syria and Iraq we will simply reappear elsewhere, the

:56:10.:56:12.

government's willingness to act in three out must be used not `s an end

:56:13.:56:18.

in itself, but as a means to seek solutions in the broadest context.

:56:19.:56:21.

What we need now is a modern Marshall plan for the region. The

:56:22.:56:25.

participation of as many nations as possible, and the determination to

:56:26.:56:30.

see that through. The most pernicious lie that too manx have

:56:31.:56:34.

fallen for us is that this hs the clash of civilizations, unddr any

:56:35.:56:39.

honours circumstance would be a series of local conflicts h`s been

:56:40.:56:42.

given greater resonance by the injection of jihadist and sdctarian

:56:43.:56:49.

rhetoric. A black and white distinction, drawn between the

:56:50.:56:51.

faithful and the crusaders `nd the ability of many to bring thd near

:56:52.:56:56.

war on the far war together, let us not forget this was denied hn's to

:56:57.:57:04.

teach extreme. Too often, the actions of our governments have

:57:05.:57:07.

exacerbated these problems, not from intentions for from its inability to

:57:08.:57:11.

think about what follows an initial Matera envisioned. That there be no

:57:12.:57:17.

doubt, have the Prime Minister come to this place with a plan not to

:57:18.:57:21.

just bomb Syria but to ensure that there were both funds and a

:57:22.:57:25.

rebooted, willingness to rebuild afterwards and give up its forces to

:57:26.:57:29.

occupy and pacify it, if he had come here with a plan to place their

:57:30.:57:32.

intentions in Syria into thd context of plans for the wider region, and

:57:33.:57:38.

show that he had the willingness to join or build a Coalition of states

:57:39.:57:42.

who are willing to spend a time untangling the myriad of regional

:57:43.:57:45.

disputes that have set this part of the world of claim.

:57:46.:57:51.

And the fact that the Prime Minister was able to come pretty close to

:57:52.:57:59.

answer bring the seven points of the Foreign Affairs Committee r`ised,

:58:00.:58:02.

there was a limitation on what he can actually say because crdating

:58:03.:58:06.

this entire national Coalithon is active workgroup in progress, which

:58:07.:58:12.

it wasn't back in September and October. That is the change and we

:58:13.:58:16.

need our government to be ftlly committed to that process. @nd air

:58:17.:58:20.

strikes on the one hand it's a small screen for the more substantial

:58:21.:58:24.

question, as how art can our government that should the

:58:25.:58:27.

international Coalition he hs talking about as either a 4 member

:58:28.:58:31.

of the Coalition or continuhng to be at non-belligerents. He makds an

:58:32.:58:42.

important point. They give ts the platform for the United Kingdom to

:58:43.:58:45.

show the leadership that we are all looking for. I would of been willing

:58:46.:58:51.

to support military action had the government met when I just like now.

:58:52.:58:55.

But the reality is the Primd Minister has not done so. Instead,

:58:56.:59:00.

what we have is a political version of virtue signalling. Afric` while

:59:01.:59:05.

may be appreciated by our allies, does nothing to address the deep

:59:06.:59:10.

misgivings of many in this house. Or amongst the wider public. The point

:59:11.:59:14.

is not to attack Isis, the point is to defeat them. And not the feed and

:59:15.:59:20.

Syria, but across the whole arc of insurgency. Walk our military forces

:59:21.:59:25.

have learned from decades of involvement at the bridging, this

:59:26.:59:29.

seems they are political masters have not. I think this final plea.

:59:30.:59:34.

Applied the lesson from history Show us what has been learndd and

:59:35.:59:39.

please give us a proper plan for reconstruction. For brilliant

:59:40.:59:52.

speakers, out of four. My whll be a bit more modest. I have two problems

:59:53.:59:57.

with the proposed interventhon in Syria. Is not to say that the

:59:58.:00:03.

government does not care and is not true that nothing has been done to

:00:04.:00:07.

engage the support of members on both sides of this house. This is

:00:08.:00:15.

the result of careful thought over a number of years not a concltsion to

:00:16.:00:23.

which we have come to over the last two or three weeks. We recognise the

:00:24.:00:28.

appalling major of the attacks in France, just as we had to rdcognise

:00:29.:00:33.

the attacks in the Lebanon the previous day as early attacks on a

:00:34.:00:38.

Russian aeroplane and beford that, on the beach in Tunisia. Thd

:00:39.:00:46.

question is not how can we deal with these attacks today or tomorrow And

:00:47.:00:51.

said how can we solve the problems of Isil on a long-term basis. First,

:00:52.:00:59.

we must not find ourselves tsing boots on the ground. Into something

:01:00.:01:06.

that which cannot be solved by Britz or indeed United States, Russians,

:01:07.:01:11.

or French. The PM has it cldar that our boots are not used in Sxria nor

:01:12.:01:18.

those of any Westerners with for the moment include Russia. Thank you. I

:01:19.:01:29.

am always extremely buried when you make definitive, when someone makes

:01:30.:01:34.

definitive statements that will not use our Armed Forces to defdnd our

:01:35.:01:44.

interests. Understand his fdar, but the Prime Minister himself said we

:01:45.:01:48.

should not have boots on thd ground. Where are the support is coling

:01:49.:01:55.

from? We are not speaking about one Army under one general, but several

:01:56.:02:00.

different factions, some of which are competing against each other. We

:02:01.:02:05.

cannot repeat what happened in Libya. It is not clear whether these

:02:06.:02:10.

factions with the 70,000 Syrian fighters are composed of, are

:02:11.:02:15.

organised and prepared to act. Whether they are able to move into

:02:16.:02:21.

Isil grounds quickly otherwhse new criminals will arrive and appear as

:02:22.:02:27.

soon as the old one is destroyed. The support needs to be relhable and

:02:28.:02:33.

sustainable. How can we be sure that these are forces to count on?

:02:34.:02:41.

Secondly, that is not one clear enemy to fight. The Russians appear

:02:42.:02:47.

to support aside, while we support of rebel fighters declared `s

:02:48.:02:53.

moderate. Russia's support of side has resulted in strikes hitting the

:02:54.:02:58.

moderates. If there were in agreement with Russia it'll be much

:02:59.:03:04.

nearer what we are aiming for. If there were agreement from Sxria the

:03:05.:03:12.

moderates and the ascites than it would form a united front. H believe

:03:13.:03:18.

a successful fight against Hsil is only possible when everyone on the

:03:19.:03:24.

Allied side works together to defeat them. Always a pleasure to speak on

:03:25.:03:41.

these issues. Were all very aware of the terrible events in Paris of the

:03:42.:03:46.

last few weeks. The problems have developed in the Middle East and it

:03:47.:03:49.

instilled into the streets of Paris. We are also aware of the kex

:03:50.:03:53.

development in the Middle E`st. And half of the global problems that

:03:54.:04:01.

arise as well. Of course we know... Got have tackle Daesh. And how we

:04:02.:04:07.

respond in a very positive fashion. Cultivate interest to poor

:04:08.:04:17.

countries... On the borders of, Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Isr`el.

:04:18.:04:26.

Midwest, Bill sells adjusting to the region of turmoil. Ray James in

:04:27.:04:34.

several countries nearby turmoil are reporting care risk of acquhring

:04:35.:04:36.

long-range missiles, developing weapons of mass destruction. Before

:04:37.:04:41.

cannot fully enjoy the advantages of stability even. At the fellow

:04:42.:04:46.

Western states are susceptible to threats and other forms of

:04:47.:04:52.

aggressive behaviour. Dispersal of Christians of the Middle East, of

:04:53.:04:58.

aware that. The hundreds of thousands have in this versd from

:04:59.:05:02.

Syria from Egypt, Lebanon, to our Brian, Iraq, everywhere elsd.

:05:03.:05:08.

Countries can best adjuster, problem by housing cooperation amongst

:05:09.:05:15.

themselves and forging an Asian .. Such a step would have applhcations

:05:16.:05:19.

for Western interest as well as the Middle East. Is something I believe

:05:20.:05:24.

the UK Government should promote. Social operations or alliances

:05:25.:05:32.

between Greece and Turkey... Which is the issue that most needs

:05:33.:05:37.

addressed. We need to strikd the right balance of this. With can t

:05:38.:05:41.

seem to be interfering in other nations sovereignty. With md to work

:05:42.:05:45.

more closely alongside the dastern European nations, particularly

:05:46.:05:49.

Cyprus. It is, that we are very fortunate to have the art AF enabled

:05:50.:05:56.

in Cyprus to some of our foreign Commonwealth ministers the past had

:05:57.:06:00.

the foresight and vision to assure that we have. Very much a kdy part

:06:01.:06:09.

to play in operations in thd future. Properly in the Middle East should

:06:10.:06:13.

not be confined to the alre`dy destabilized regions, but working

:06:14.:06:16.

more closely with all of our allies in the region. Says the comhng of

:06:17.:06:26.

the Berlin wall and the collapse of the Soviet bloc two years l`ter the

:06:27.:06:32.

West has in several ways moved eastward. The European Union opened

:06:33.:06:37.

its doors to several countrhes and submit, North Atlantic Treaty

:06:38.:06:51.

accepted... The Bosnian car set up... And intervene in the lilitary

:06:52.:06:59.

in a written. Does have the West. And expected to the Eastern

:07:00.:07:06.

meditative -- Mediterranean Sonitrol security. Let's look at the bigger

:07:07.:07:11.

picture, as Greece, Israel, Cyprus, all those poor countries together

:07:12.:07:16.

are better suited -- strategic part to be played. To their problems on

:07:17.:07:27.

the grid by Minister attackdd is of the diving and a Russian pl`n and is

:07:28.:07:35.

regularly encourages... Silly that that's not a way for England to

:07:36.:07:38.

behave at a moment where facing the likes of Isis. He is right. It is

:07:39.:07:45.

not the way to behave. Nonetheless, we have to work with those countries

:07:46.:07:51.

who always denies to see if we can get an agreed strategy to move

:07:52.:07:58.

forward. The Easter Mediterranean is where the... Use the force of nine

:07:59.:08:07.

European Sock... Easter Mediterranean harbours political,

:08:08.:08:16.

Western democracy live side-by-side, and some of... Such

:08:17.:08:25.

gaps increased international attention and are still revhsions of

:08:26.:08:29.

at at the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in the Syrian military occupation

:08:30.:08:36.

showed. In 2015, was to havd this what the bridge and an turmoil.

:08:37.:08:42.

Wicket stand back no longer, and no longer isolate ourselves in the

:08:43.:08:46.

breaches that are global problems. Whether it's in a support role, or

:08:47.:08:53.

consult of role, it is time for us to in the UK to stand up and make

:08:54.:08:57.

sure that we undertake our obligations to the rest of lankind

:08:58.:09:03.

seriously. And have nations less fortunate with difficulties that we

:09:04.:09:05.

see in the Middle East. So they might enjoy the prosperity that we

:09:06.:09:09.

in the West too often take for granted. The West long-term

:09:10.:09:18.

strategic... The process cotld have potential to pacify some within the

:09:19.:09:23.

turmoil and helping their pdople into the West forward. Drogheda for

:09:24.:09:32.

example, could impact on thd West. -- Jordan. All of which havd

:09:33.:09:41.

developed democratic institttions and look towards the breast -- the

:09:42.:09:49.

West. Most countries by difficulties associating themselves on the ones

:09:50.:09:54.

of tyrannical rulers Looking ahead to the things that we need to be

:09:55.:09:58.

thinking about the long-terl and lasting solutions to the pl`gue

:09:59.:10:03.

blessing to process it in the Middle East at this time. And now with our

:10:04.:10:12.

allies the regions. Of the key to unlocking the flaws we need to have

:10:13.:10:15.

a positive and influential role in the fridge and to maintain the

:10:16.:10:20.

ability for Nato to operate in the region. Is imperative that we learn

:10:21.:10:25.

from all too recent mistakes when it comes to how we act in the region.

:10:26.:10:29.

To influence the direction of the region in which we which and

:10:30.:10:34.

positive to the world. And the next two days, the House will make a

:10:35.:10:38.

monumental and historic dechsion to go to battle in the Middle Dast But

:10:39.:10:43.

everywhere air strikes or soldiers on the ground. Would look forward to

:10:44.:10:53.

that decision. I like to also congratulate my friend for securing

:10:54.:11:00.

this important debate. I agree with him that the UK has a particular

:11:01.:11:08.

possibility for the region. A unique responsibility given the very

:11:09.:11:12.

highest standard that our country has throughout the Middle E`st. A

:11:13.:11:15.

lot to pay tribute to the chairman of the foreign affairs select

:11:16.:11:20.

committee. His leadership dtring our recent visit to the bridge hn, but

:11:21.:11:25.

also any way in which he has brought about to come by an centre of this

:11:26.:11:32.

debate in the run-up to this. During a visit to the Ron and Friant, the

:11:33.:11:37.

reissue I took away from th`t trip is the mutual hostility and

:11:38.:11:42.

suspicion, and antagonism that exists between the two regional

:11:43.:11:48.

powers, Saudi Arabia and Ir`n. This tension is starting to spill over,

:11:49.:11:53.

not just in gym and can, but also in by rain and now Syria. Many other

:11:54.:12:01.

countries including Kuwait `re caught up in this appalling tension

:12:02.:12:05.

that exists between these two powers. I am very pleased that India

:12:06.:12:12.

the Vienna talks, both Iran and Saudi Arabia are around the same

:12:13.:12:17.

table. For the first time and it long time in my estimation. As I

:12:18.:12:23.

said to the Prime Minister last week, it is vital that the Tnited

:12:24.:12:28.

Kingdom uses its good officds in the UN to encourage and facilit`te

:12:29.:12:34.

dialogue between us Saudi Arabia and Iran. On that point, I think we must

:12:35.:12:44.

fully understand that the United Kingdom still has an excepthonally

:12:45.:12:50.

good reputation and the Middle East, despite the fact that we have lost

:12:51.:12:54.

so much of our military powdr. They still regard us as friends. Very

:12:55.:13:02.

much. Suddenly whenever you travel throughout the Middle East, over and

:13:03.:13:06.

over again, people highlight the fact that they see us. As an

:13:07.:13:10.

impartial and honourable interlocutor is someone who can

:13:11.:13:15.

facilitate dialogue to try `nd anticipate some of the tenshon that

:13:16.:13:20.

exists within the region. Wd recently saw the show in a

:13:21.:13:25.

restaurant of British diplolacy particularly over the agreelent the

:13:26.:13:29.

nuclear agreement with our brand. Is some of us cast our mind, the

:13:30.:13:34.

Chardonnay retentions that dxisted with that country, during otr visit

:13:35.:13:41.

we spent at the British emb`ssy which had been trashed prevhously by

:13:42.:13:45.

students, but if you pause for a moment to see the extraordinary

:13:46.:13:49.

accomplishment of that painstaking process diplomacy, I patiently to

:13:50.:14:00.

our... To show to a British diplomacy can achieve. So I do not

:14:01.:14:07.

believe it is naive or even unrealistic to expect that the UK

:14:08.:14:12.

could or ought to be trying to secure better dialogue betwden us

:14:13.:14:18.

Saudi Arabia and Iran. It is essential that the government is

:14:19.:14:23.

probed on the issue of strategy and planning and of run-up to a

:14:24.:14:28.

potential bombing of Syria. Spend quite a lot of time on that

:14:29.:14:31.

delegation to the Middle East with my Honorable friend. He wrote an

:14:32.:14:39.

article in yesterday's paper outlining the case bombing `nd

:14:40.:14:46.

Syria. He is the only one alongst the entire conservative

:14:47.:14:50.

Parliamentary party voted against the Obama campaign and Lidi`. That

:14:51.:14:57.

with a very courageous thing to do. Ignore the rest of the partx and to

:14:58.:15:02.

go into the opposite lobby. I paid to be to have. He is a formdr

:15:03.:15:06.

soldier with tremendous courage at that time. I recall from those

:15:07.:15:13.

deliberations how the opposhtion, the Liberal Democrats and the

:15:14.:15:19.

government, all rush to support the bombing of Gaddafi. It with an

:15:20.:15:21.

emotional time for us. He promised to instigate a bug that in Benghazi.

:15:22.:15:29.

I think we won it to do somdthing. So we sanction the bombing of his

:15:30.:15:35.

military capability. Of course you can get rid of a dictated there

:15:36.:15:40.

easily. It is the planning that had to take place to ensure that the

:15:41.:15:44.

country is then administered properly, and that those important

:15:45.:15:49.

seeds of a democratic society are allowed to germinate before we then

:15:50.:15:56.

pass on responsibility to the local politicians. Does he share ly

:15:57.:16:05.

concerns that when it comes to Syria and the bombing of Isis within Syria

:16:06.:16:09.

that our relationship with Russia must be very carefully managed to

:16:10.:16:12.

assure that we do not and that with a conflict that we are not looking

:16:13.:16:23.

for? I agreed. -- agreed. Are bolted to Syria later if I have tile. The

:16:24.:16:30.

lack of planning of boots on the ground has led so tragicallx to a

:16:31.:16:32.

continued instability in th`t country. And the civil war that is

:16:33.:16:37.

raging. The Minister will know about the difficulties and Lidia `nd in

:16:38.:16:43.

particular that Isis has managed to take a route in certain parts of the

:16:44.:16:46.

country. Indeed, some reports that I have heard of Isis have been, the

:16:47.:16:53.

Isis in Libya has been identified as the most radical in the reghon. When

:16:54.:16:59.

questioned what I wanted to pose is why are we wanted to bomb Isis in

:17:00.:17:04.

Syria and get not in Libya `t this moment? The bar has to be r`ised

:17:05.:17:08.

that much higher given the difficulties of Lidia. To assure

:17:09.:17:14.

that those supporting the government on this issue, adequate timd spent

:17:15.:17:18.

on the floor of the House and at some of those difficult questions

:17:19.:17:22.

that ministers may not want to hear our assets so that the government is

:17:23.:17:26.

better prepared in Syria th`n it was in Libya. I remember my fridnd, the

:17:27.:17:33.

chairman of the Defense seldct committee in his intervention, I

:17:34.:17:36.

would stake out of all the interventions that I heard during

:17:37.:17:42.

that time, his was the most pressing in. He challenged the figurd of

:17:43.:17:47.

70,000 moderates that we cotld work with and I think that it wotld be

:17:48.:17:50.

extremely important for the government to listen to my Honorable

:17:51.:17:56.

friend. And to debate as to how that figure came about and what those

:17:57.:18:01.

forces consist of. During otr visit to the Middle East guess I give

:18:02.:18:09.

way. He talks about the fred Syrian army in the figure of 70,000. The

:18:10.:18:14.

free Syrian army hey Daesh hs said. But they hate aside even more. By

:18:15.:18:26.

not addressing the other Assad, can we really trust the free Syrian army

:18:27.:18:32.

to fight Daesh, knowing thex may get Assad, who they hate even more? I

:18:33.:18:39.

hope that my friend will be able to build on that question and his

:18:40.:18:42.

contribution. During our visit to the Middle East, southern rdgional

:18:43.:18:47.

states were not able to explain to us what resources they will be using

:18:48.:18:51.

committing in the air or on the ground. Of course there is the added

:18:52.:18:57.

complication of Saudi Arabi` wanting to improve, immediate remov`l of

:18:58.:19:05.

Assad and how that will plax about. Of course these regional allies

:19:06.:19:09.

including Kuwait and the Emla Reds, Saudi Arabia and others are involved

:19:10.:19:14.

in a complicated war and hulan. Which are stretching their

:19:15.:19:19.

resources. I very much hope in advance of this vote, the government

:19:20.:19:24.

will be able to explain to ts what our virginal allies will be

:19:25.:19:27.

contradicting. It is a positive to hear that the Germans of thd

:19:28.:19:33.

contributing 15,000 troops ,- 1 00 just. -- just. As time is rtnning

:19:34.:19:42.

out, I would like to say, grew up my Honorable friend that is extremely

:19:43.:19:44.

important that the government works with Russia on this issue. H

:19:45.:19:50.

regularly attend a fence at the Russian Embassy and speak on heart

:19:51.:19:55.

came. It is fashionable to be anti-Russian at this moment of time.

:19:56.:20:01.

To see brush up to a Cold W`r lens, I believe that we have to come

:20:02.:20:05.

together despite all of our differences at this time. Sdt aside

:20:06.:20:09.

those difficulties that we had with President Putin and work together

:20:10.:20:14.

with him and others to bring about stability for this country. I would

:20:15.:20:21.

echo, unless there is a competent strategy, it will be about the rat

:20:22.:20:28.

situation why we do feed thdm somewhere, and they pop up too

:20:29.:20:37.

quickly. Is come to my attention on twitter that the Prime Minister will

:20:38.:20:42.

be making a statement tonight on Syria at this 7pm. Extends the

:20:43.:20:47.

statement will be on television rather than the House of Colmons. I

:20:48.:20:56.

thank the gentleman for his point of order. I of course have no way of

:20:57.:21:03.

knowing what did anything that has gone on a social media is correct or

:21:04.:21:10.

not. I have no idea of the truth of what the gentleman says. Popeye sure

:21:11.:21:13.

that the gentleman would not have raised this point had he not send

:21:14.:21:21.

something to that effect. All I can say is I have every confidence in

:21:22.:21:28.

the right honourable gentlelan, the Prime Minister if he has solething

:21:29.:21:32.

of importance to say to the nation about Syria or indeed any other

:21:33.:21:38.

important issue, that peopld come first to this chamber, to this house

:21:39.:21:45.

to say it. I'm quite sure that he will do in due course. To all the

:21:46.:22:04.

said. 90% who claimed that Scots descent,... Thank you to my

:22:05.:22:13.

Honorable friend. Became adjusted time. For a number of peopld... And

:22:14.:22:23.

seem to be an occasion to gtzzle on the calendar. For a big and people

:22:24.:22:31.

who are around the globe, a time of reflection and preparation to

:22:32.:22:37.

celebrate the birth of a convicted criminal, a Palestinian whose

:22:38.:22:44.

message of peace and goodwill to all is desperately needed as today has

:22:45.:22:50.

ever been in the two got thd gears since he walked the very lands that

:22:51.:22:54.

we are speaking about this dvening. I do not pretend to be an expert on

:22:55.:22:59.

the complex is due to the Mhddle East. Intimated that if nond of us

:23:00.:23:04.

did. I suspect a lot of the problems in the region have improved cause

:23:05.:23:09.

the fact that so many experts from other countries that they knew

:23:10.:23:17.

better, or new best. I could from a simple belief that the rights and

:23:18.:23:24.

wrongs, that is morally defdnsible and indefensible, and I want to see

:23:25.:23:32.

a UK about the foreign policy that is right in terms of what is morally

:23:33.:23:39.

right. In terms of political, economic excuse... Against other

:23:40.:23:47.

measures, it has to be said that the UK record has not been parthcularly

:23:48.:23:56.

impressive. Will talk about allying with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Ar`bia is a

:23:57.:24:01.

merciless abuser of the death penalty. They supply weapons to

:24:02.:24:06.

Saudi Arabia and pretend not to know that those same weapons are being

:24:07.:24:10.

used in the killing of innocent civilians and given. We honour the

:24:11.:24:17.

Israeli and PM, despite the fact the position of the UK Government at the

:24:18.:24:21.

old government acting against international law. We are allowing

:24:22.:24:29.

weapons, they're pretending not to note they could be contributing to

:24:30.:24:32.

the hundreds of deaths of innocent women and children in Palestine We

:24:33.:24:40.

said very quickly -- set a cap on the willingness to welcome refugees

:24:41.:24:45.

in Syria. But we are not gohng to set in a cap on a number of missiles

:24:46.:24:49.

or bombs we are prepared to send over there. Will not set a cap on

:24:50.:24:54.

how long the military bombardment will continue. I'm sure he hs aware

:24:55.:25:03.

that his honourable friend, who sits on the bench is on the commhttee,

:25:04.:25:07.

was with this in Saudi Arabha last week. And her distance of rdceipt

:25:08.:25:13.

desperate things on the campaign and given. I hope he will spend time

:25:14.:25:16.

with his friend to find out the static perspective on this. -- a

:25:17.:25:29.

Saudi perspective. My point is that if we continue to operate a policy

:25:30.:25:35.

in the Middle East, which is based on the interest of UK citizdns, UK

:25:36.:25:43.

businesses, investors. Will continue to... A lot of thank the Honorable

:25:44.:25:51.

member. Another welcome Middle Eastern immigrant to Scotland. On

:25:52.:26:01.

the point, I would like, how too soft in the story, but if they are

:26:02.:26:04.

in the improved breaches of international military and law, I'm

:26:05.:26:06.

sure that all of us in the lot would an investigation.

:26:07.:26:14.

I certainly welcome such an investigation, perhaps that

:26:15.:26:18.

investigation should have t`ken place before we started to supply

:26:19.:26:23.

weapons, certainly afterwards if you discover that they were used for the

:26:24.:26:27.

one purpose. Madam Deputy Speaker, my concern is that United Khngdom

:26:28.:26:35.

and the international may h`ve become so entrenched as part of the

:26:36.:26:38.

UK economy that an awful lot of people in the UK effectivelx have

:26:39.:26:45.

got arrested for bachelor interests and not finding a peaceful

:26:46.:26:48.

resolution to complex. I don't think that is a good position to be in. We

:26:49.:26:53.

have got to be prepared to defend ourselves, I heard an issue with the

:26:54.:26:58.

fact that there is a business in my constituency involved in thd

:26:59.:27:05.

military industry. Technology is used for the willingness soletimes

:27:06.:27:09.

to provide technology withott asking too many questions, and getting

:27:10.:27:14.

assurances of what they will be used for. Certainly it has not hdlped to

:27:15.:27:20.

bring peace to the Middle E`st or to a number of other trouble spots

:27:21.:27:24.

around the world. Madam Deptty Speaker, this debate clearlx

:27:25.:27:31.

dispatched the whole of the Middle East, it is quite likely within the

:27:32.:27:37.

next three days this Parlialent will be asked to take the greatest and

:27:38.:27:41.

most serious decision that `nybody of people can be asked to t`ke.

:27:42.:27:46.

Something that troubles me greatly is a key consideration for some

:27:47.:27:53.

members here, maybe then thdy might not have an maintaining or

:27:54.:27:56.

undermining individual politicians in this chamber. The very f`ct that

:27:57.:28:01.

the media believe that will be a factor is something it should give

:28:02.:28:06.

us all cause to stop and thhnk. If we genuinely believe this P`rliament

:28:07.:28:11.

is seen as a beacon of integrity, integrity around the world, the

:28:12.:28:17.

possibility that a decision to go to war could be influenced by domestic

:28:18.:28:22.

political considerations back home. I desperately hope that will not be

:28:23.:28:27.

a consideration for any one of the 650 people who will be charged with

:28:28.:28:31.

that decision. I have got a horrible feeling that my hopes may not be

:28:32.:28:35.

realised. I will give away one more time. Whether or not the twhsts or

:28:36.:28:43.

turns should affected we decide to do, would you not agree with me that

:28:44.:28:49.

with a sole exception in 2003, when Mr Blair took us in a sole dxception

:28:50.:28:52.

in 2003, when Mr Blair took us any good lead to war has never been able

:28:53.:28:55.

on the matter in this chambdr before, what he is describing is a

:28:56.:28:59.

very good reason for returnhng the old system which works extrdmely

:29:00.:29:04.

well, there was no vote at `ll until after it took place. But Deputy

:29:05.:29:10.

Speaker, my comments are not about whether individual groups of MPs

:29:11.:29:19.

whether they may be applied to them. I would take the view that has never

:29:20.:29:25.

been tested in 25 years, I would take the view and follow my

:29:26.:29:32.

conscience. That is my decision for every member here to take. That my

:29:33.:29:39.

concern is that there is certainly a feeling throughout the Unitdd

:29:40.:29:44.

Kingdom and elsewhere that for some people could be decisive for some

:29:45.:29:49.

people considerations about the impact it will have an positions

:29:50.:29:53.

within this chamber will be a factor and a decision to go to war should

:29:54.:29:57.

never, ever be affected by such factors as that. When we look at the

:29:58.:30:06.

justifications being given so far from involvement in an area of

:30:07.:30:10.

bombardment in Syria, I continue to have serious, serious concerns. For

:30:11.:30:15.

those who believe there isn't a thing as a just war, one of the

:30:16.:30:19.

requirements it must have a reasonable prospect of succdss.

:30:20.:30:24.

Aerial bombardment can it achieve without boots on the ground. It has

:30:25.:30:29.

been suggested that those troops would have come from the Unhted

:30:30.:30:35.

Kingdom despite the fact th`t the UK Government has seen under any

:30:36.:30:38.

circumstances, if they have come from the UK will have no idda what

:30:39.:30:44.

it will come from. There is no indication whatsoever of anx

:30:45.:30:49.

cease-fire between any combhnation of those actions. Madam Deptty

:30:50.:30:54.

Speaker, my fundamental concern about the idea of airborne lilitary

:30:55.:31:01.

action in Syria is simply that it will not achieve its stated

:31:02.:31:06.

objective, to me there is lhttle opportunity, little chance of

:31:07.:31:10.

achieving its stated objecthve, cannot be identified. Can I say I

:31:11.:31:17.

fully agree with him, milit`ry action can degrade, control, but it

:31:18.:31:24.

cannot defeat the evil ideology which this evil organisation pushes

:31:25.:31:28.

and pandas at every level. That strategy has to look at dealing with

:31:29.:31:31.

the ideology as well as dealing with the military action. Thank xou for

:31:32.:31:38.

that, and, in fact the question I asked the Prime Minister last week

:31:39.:31:45.

was based on that very point. I was going to let him finish the

:31:46.:31:48.

sentence. Since it is sent on Tuesday. -- is Saint Andrews Bay. Is

:31:49.:32:00.

another thing to move the circumstances were organisations

:32:01.:32:02.

such as Daesh, Todd about, OK that will continue flourish. Thank you

:32:03.:32:12.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I intdnd to take a slightly different t`ck and

:32:13.:32:18.

not speak about Daesh as most of her colleagues have, I want to focus my

:32:19.:32:22.

remarks on the failure of otr constructive relationship whth

:32:23.:32:25.

Israel, and the contribution that it makes to peace and stabilitx. The

:32:26.:32:31.

selective discrimination ag`inst Israel in UK university campuses

:32:32.:32:37.

contrasts with the huge bendfits, the British Israel academic policy,

:32:38.:32:44.

an initiative of the British Embassy in Israel and the British Consul.

:32:45.:32:49.

Israel is a multiracial, multiethnic democracy, where Arabs, Jews, and

:32:50.:32:53.

other minorities are guaranteed equal rights under law. Is opposed

:32:54.:32:58.

declaration of independence grants all of Israel inhabitants epuality,

:32:59.:33:05.

social, and political rights perspective of religion, race, or

:33:06.:33:08.

gender. Is currently the only functioning democracy in thd Middle

:33:09.:33:14.

East. In stark contrast of other Middle Eastern countries, there are

:33:15.:33:17.

no legal ejections on movemdnt, employment, or sexual or modulations

:33:18.:33:25.

for any of Israel's citizens. All all is really citizens from every

:33:26.:33:28.

minority voting in elections on an equal basis. In the past two months

:33:29.:33:33.

there have been over 90 terror attacks which have seen the deaths

:33:34.:33:37.

of 21 Israelis and many mord injuries from stabbings, shootings,

:33:38.:33:45.

yet Israeli hospitals have treated both victims and terrorists

:33:46.:33:51.

regardless of their nationality I think she should, Moxon to beginning

:33:52.:33:58.

of October, the balance in the West Bank has resulted in 85 deaths, 9171

:33:59.:34:06.

Palestinian injuries, and 133, that is a ratio of 69 21. I will come to

:34:07.:34:20.

those members when I continte. Graeme most recently providhng a

:34:21.:34:25.

system suzerain refugees arriving in Greece and elsewhere, balance has

:34:26.:34:32.

been implemented by repeated inflammatory false allegations from

:34:33.:34:36.

the Palestinian authority. @ccusing Israel planning to destroy the

:34:37.:34:40.

al-Asque Mosque and other Mtslim holy sites in Jerusalem yet the

:34:41.:34:47.

medical Center, home to Jertsalem's largest emergency Ward treats the

:34:48.:34:51.

cities wounded regardless of whether they are victims or attackers. At

:34:52.:34:58.

the medical centre, a corporation between Palestinian and Isr`eli

:34:59.:35:04.

doctors has helped to save 607 Palestinian children since 2005

:35:05.:35:11.

Depart, hospital has mixed ledical staff and treats both attackers and

:35:12.:35:17.

victims often in adjacent w`rds I wonder whether Mike Berrer like me

:35:18.:35:25.

she, the doctors in Tel Aviv, whether she acknowledges thd work

:35:26.:35:30.

that they do in the Palestinian territories, particularly in Gaza is

:35:31.:35:34.

second to none in saving chhldren's lies. If I continue my remarks you

:35:35.:35:44.

will see that I have covered those. Israel pharmaceutical industries

:35:45.:35:48.

provides the NHS with one in six of its prescription medicines laking it

:35:49.:35:51.

the NHS largest supplier of generic drugs. And is leading the world in

:35:52.:35:58.

the development of drugs to combat Alzheimer's disease, cancer,

:35:59.:36:02.

Parkinson's, and multiple sclerosis. These scientists have developed

:36:03.:36:06.

methods for producing human growth Armand and interferon, a group of

:36:07.:36:09.

proteins effective against viral infections. A medicine effective in

:36:10.:36:16.

the treatment of multiple sclerosis, was developed in Israel by the

:36:17.:36:22.

pharmaceutical, from basic research to production. It has developed

:36:23.:36:28.

early diagnosis for mad cow disease, genetic disease in humans,

:36:29.:36:34.

with a urine test instead of a brain biopsy. And identified the gene that

:36:35.:36:40.

causes multiple muscular dystrophy and the gene linked to posttraumatic

:36:41.:36:46.

stress disorder. Three new what the research programmes were announced

:36:47.:36:49.

by the British Embassy in Jtly 0 15th between the UK and Isr`eli

:36:50.:36:54.

scientists. The work of Isr`eli research institutions such `s Tel

:36:55.:36:58.

Aviv University and the Institute improves the lives of peopld in poor

:36:59.:37:04.

countries by sharing Israel's expertise in waste water trdatment,

:37:05.:37:09.

purification, and water reuse. The programmes will enable scientists

:37:10.:37:12.

from Britain, Israel, and the region to work together to tackle water

:37:13.:37:18.

shortages. Israel is one of the founding members of Digital five, a

:37:19.:37:24.

group of leading digital governments which met for the first timd in

:37:25.:37:28.

London in December 2014, and in March 20 15th, it was announced that

:37:29.:37:32.

the UK is rather academic programmes, projects will rdceive

:37:33.:37:37.

cyber research funding from the UK Government. Value of trade `nd

:37:38.:37:45.

services between the UK and Israel is now over four and a half billion

:37:46.:37:50.

pounds a year, and the UK is Israel's second biggest export

:37:51.:37:55.

market. British businesses like HSBC, Barclays, and Rolls-Royce and

:37:56.:37:59.

others have invested more than 1 billion in Israel. The UK and Israel

:38:00.:38:05.

worked closely together in technology goal and scientific

:38:06.:38:09.

research including cyber security. In short, Israel is a talent to Max

:38:10.:38:16.

power and their society, crdated an innovative, it produces, develops,

:38:17.:38:22.

and advance knowledge. Granted, written's close relationship with

:38:23.:38:26.

Israel is a force for good hn the Middle East and it is essential that

:38:27.:38:29.

we build and maintain this strong relationship. After much affection,

:38:30.:38:40.

research, and listening to the views of many people, including

:38:41.:38:45.

constituents, fellow members on both sides come and the government I have

:38:46.:38:48.

decided I cannot support Brhtish military action in Syria, I will be

:38:49.:38:53.

posting against any motion hn this house this week. It is my vhew that

:38:54.:38:58.

the eradication of Daesh from Syria, Iraq, and around the world hs a

:38:59.:39:03.

necessary process. One in which the UK should be engaged includhng an

:39:04.:39:08.

effective military action. H am not currently persuaded that it would be

:39:09.:39:13.

lawful for the Royal Air Force to bomb Syria, Iran agreed that it is

:39:14.:39:16.

arguable and it is not the principal reason why Oprah, oppose thd reason.

:39:17.:39:26.

I would recommend highly thd House of commons which is excellent on

:39:27.:39:29.

that matter. By that, there are three tests which I do not believe

:39:30.:39:33.

the government has passed which the Prime Minister failed to satisfy in

:39:34.:39:38.

his statement in Commons last week. Firstly, there is no tactic`l plan

:39:39.:39:41.

for taking control of the areas currently occupied by Daesh, should

:39:42.:39:46.

bombing be successful in thdm. Which itself is questionable given the

:39:47.:39:50.

bombing of those areas by 10 other countries have continued ovdr 1

:39:51.:39:59.

months. There are insufficidnt competence, relevance, or motivated

:40:00.:40:07.

ground to the at present. The Prime Minister said the head of the

:40:08.:40:12.

serpent is in Iraq, and therefore we must attack Raqqa. Does my Honorable

:40:13.:40:17.

friend agree that it is not a serpent is a hydra, if you chop off

:40:18.:40:21.

one head, more heads would roll and they will grow in other are`s? That

:40:22.:40:31.

was a rather simplistic analogy to draw, secondly, there is no

:40:32.:40:36.

functioning international alliance that can turn short term military

:40:37.:40:40.

gains into a programme for the peaceful governments of Syrha,

:40:41.:40:45.

Vienna talks are a start of such a process, but presently the `ims of

:40:46.:40:50.

Turkey, Russia, Iran, and the Nato countries are so desperate `s to be

:40:51.:40:57.

chaotic. Does he agree with me that it is essential to build an

:40:58.:41:01.

international alliance to t`ke action against Isil, Daesh hn many

:41:02.:41:05.

other ways that can be taken other than simply to air strikes. That

:41:06.:41:10.

includes stopping the flow of weapons, into Syria and above all

:41:11.:41:13.

blocking the revenue, particularly the overview new flowing in at the

:41:14.:41:17.

rate of one and a half billhon dollars a day. We need to

:41:18.:41:20.

demonstrate there is intern`tional Corporation on these things,

:41:21.:41:24.

alongside any other measures the government may bring forward. So,

:41:25.:41:32.

apart from lack of tactical or should eject basis, my third reason

:41:33.:41:37.

is that the permanent defeat of Daesh interior requires the end of

:41:38.:41:41.

conflicts which is what allows them to thrive, any short-term

:41:42.:41:45.

entrenchment will likely benefit the Assad regime. It self is possible

:41:46.:41:50.

for seven times the number of civilian deaths this year as Daesh

:41:51.:41:55.

ugly and may mean a shift in the balance of forces and may bring us

:41:56.:42:03.

no nearer resolution. What H would like to see is Britain engaged in a

:42:04.:42:09.

dramatic effort to bring Russia and Iran away from their support of

:42:10.:42:13.

Assad and Turkey and Saudi @rabia from giving comfort if not `ctual

:42:14.:42:18.

support to Islamist extremism. I would like to see a peace process

:42:19.:42:22.

that allows nonaction is a position to talk to the acceptable p`rts of

:42:23.:42:26.

the Syrian Arab army and Kurdish forces. And a concerted attdmpt as

:42:27.:42:29.

my Honorable friend just sahd to cut off the funds and other

:42:30.:42:35.

international support for D`esh That is a very difficult, pdrhaps

:42:36.:42:40.

impossible agenda. But to engage in bombing missions, something must be

:42:41.:42:42.

done or even a solidarity b`sis without clear objectives dods not

:42:43.:42:47.

show sound judgement. There are other arguments for and agahnst

:42:48.:42:54.

intervention, the contributhon would be small, especially given the lack

:42:55.:42:58.

of military targets without the risk of civilian casualties. That we

:42:59.:43:02.

should support allies whethdr the Iraqi or French governments, that we

:43:03.:43:07.

remain at risk from Daesh attacks or the UK, with a retake furthdr

:43:08.:43:10.

military action against thel or not. Of the three points, I

:43:11.:43:16.

mentioned above are my redlhnes they are also I am pleased to 1 0 to

:43:17.:43:22.

one in the letters and e-mahls I received from my constituents in the

:43:23.:43:28.

last few days and weeks. I would of course give you my decision, in the

:43:29.:43:33.

likes of changing events. Ghven the UK's poor record of intervention in

:43:34.:43:35.

the Middle East over the past decade, I think that further

:43:36.:43:39.

military incursion should only be approved if a high burden of proof

:43:40.:43:44.

can be established. Having dealt with that mind Deputy Speakdr, may I

:43:45.:43:51.

anytime I have remaining tile two dozen other issues in the Mhddle

:43:52.:43:55.

East albeit necessarily bridfly The first is the current situathon in

:43:56.:44:02.

Israel, Palestine, I am sorry that you than to a beach a few moments

:44:03.:44:05.

ago which gave a very one-shded view of that situation which as lost

:44:06.:44:13.

serious many, many years. It is not the issues are new, we are familiar

:44:14.:44:16.

with what they are, it is the growth of the Israeli settlements which now

:44:17.:44:21.

almost 600,000 people in thd occupied territories, a shoot to

:44:22.:44:28.

kill policy and increased use of live fire, increase use of home

:44:29.:44:33.

demolitions, child attention the past laws, the checkpoints, the

:44:34.:44:40.

barriers, and restrictions on access to the sanctuary and other holy

:44:41.:44:45.

places. None of these things is new, but the intensification of their use

:44:46.:44:49.

by the occupying power is mtch more significant. That is going on partly

:44:50.:44:53.

because of the extremism of the Israeli government and partx because

:44:54.:44:58.

tragic events elsewhere in the Middle East give cover for that

:44:59.:45:04.

They are often distractions, today I will not because of the timd, there

:45:05.:45:08.

often distractions because suddenly the you have decided to impose a

:45:09.:45:14.

restrictions in Netanyahu this morning said he was not going to

:45:15.:45:19.

talk to the EU. These are ddtails, it is important that we do not

:45:20.:45:23.

import the common good, in the great scheme of the occupation, these are

:45:24.:45:27.

details I can only quote an article from the Guardian a prisoner in

:45:28.:45:35.

Israel who said the last dax of occupation is the first day of

:45:36.:45:39.

peace. That is what we should keep our eyes on, the fact that this is a

:45:40.:45:44.

country that has been occuphed for many, many decades. Justice will

:45:45.:45:49.

never be achieved in Palesthne until Israeli forces withdraw. Finally,

:45:50.:45:54.

can I turn to the issue of the golf? Another matter that would need

:45:55.:46:01.

a whole debate in itself. I have to say on that I think the

:46:02.:46:04.

government's policy is just wrong. Our support for Saudi Arabi` given

:46:05.:46:12.

the variety and many things occurring within that regimd, and

:46:13.:46:16.

indeed for Bahrain where we are building a naval base, and the UAE,

:46:17.:46:21.

all of which have appalling human rights records on matters which

:46:22.:46:28.

cannot be airbrushed and ought to be reviewed. Nowhere is that clearer

:46:29.:46:32.

than in what is happening ctrrently in Yemen. I believe the Fordign

:46:33.:46:39.

Secretary is on record as s`ying that he will support the, the UK

:46:40.:46:45.

will support the Coalition hn every practical way, short of eng`ging in

:46:46.:46:51.

combat. That has meant for dxample it the British may cruise mhssile

:46:52.:46:56.

was used by the Coalition destruction of a summit factory on

:46:57.:47:04.

the 23rd of September in apparent violation of international

:47:05.:47:10.

humanitarian law. It is also been said by the head of the

:47:11.:47:15.

international committee that Yemen after five months looks likd Syria

:47:16.:47:19.

after five years, Yemen is ` forgotten war, it is a war hn which

:47:20.:47:26.

the Saudi led forces are crdating havoc and are creating a military

:47:27.:47:30.

and are creating a Unitarian outrage on a daily basis. That is not to

:47:31.:47:34.

defend the other forces werd equally guilty of atrocities, but it is

:47:35.:47:41.

wrong dad voices reject or tactical, or other reasons that the British

:47:42.:47:46.

Government is giving its unpualified support to the Coalition. It is

:47:47.:47:54.

wrong they are supporting rdgime in the golf which oppresses thd

:47:55.:47:56.

majority of its population which carries out torture at human rights

:47:57.:48:02.

abuses. While the government is prepared to condemn such abtses in

:48:03.:48:07.

other countries, it is not prepared it appears to do so in the case of

:48:08.:48:12.

golf countries for either hhstoric reasons or indeed for reasons of the

:48:13.:48:24.

premises. I believe it should do so. Thank you very much indeed that a

:48:25.:48:28.

Deputy Speaker, first we echoed by JB on your... Honorable member for

:48:29.:48:32.

securing this time a debate, I will like to draw the House cost

:48:33.:48:38.

attention IT to debate in a study different direction. Our role in the

:48:39.:48:41.

Middle East must be to support countries who's apprised forwards to

:48:42.:48:48.

questions, and hope protect the rights of all minorities, women

:48:49.:48:51.

challenge those who seek to persecute minorities for thdir

:48:52.:48:55.

religious beliefs and practhces A century ago, Christians madd up 20%

:48:56.:48:59.

of the population in the Middle East, this is dramatically falling

:49:00.:49:04.

to 4%. Christians face prison sentences, and executions for

:49:05.:49:07.

practicing their religion in many countries across the Middle East

:49:08.:49:11.

where hatred of Christians hs ignored or encouraged. -- is

:49:12.:49:15.

carrying out a campaign of persecution against minorithes in

:49:16.:49:20.

the Middle East. At least 5000 have been murdered in Iraq since August

:49:21.:49:25.

2014. With the advance of D`esh forces who have declared thdm as

:49:26.:49:32.

devil worshipers, the rise of Daesh has intensified persecution of

:49:33.:49:35.

Christians in the Middle East. Card is Syrian and Iraqi Christi`ns have

:49:36.:49:39.

been murdered with methods tsed including crucifixions, and

:49:40.:49:45.

beheadings. Daesh has edited thousands of Syrian Christi`ns from

:49:46.:49:48.

their homes and in other ardas and has demanded that Christians either

:49:49.:49:54.

convert or pay a tax for non-Muslims. They have destroyed

:49:55.:49:57.

countless churches, and Chrhstian shrines, and have carried ott at no

:49:58.:50:00.

religious cleansing of Christian minorities. Any Muslim who converts

:50:01.:50:06.

to Christianity is considerdd to have deformed apostasy, the culture

:50:07.:50:12.

is abandonment of Islam. Sent parts of the Middle East this is ` crime

:50:13.:50:16.

punishable by death. Christhans live in a threatening atmosphere in many

:50:17.:50:18.

countries in the Middle East, including air on where therd were

:50:19.:50:21.

hosted the chairman of minorities would improve under President,

:50:22.:50:28.

Christians in Iran continue to be arbitrarily arrested and face of

:50:29.:50:32.

used in police custody. Elsdwhere in the Middle East, recent years have

:50:33.:50:35.

seen the burning of churches in Egypt, hundreds of Christian Coptic

:50:36.:50:40.

girls have been kidnapped, `nd forcibly converted to Islam, as well

:50:41.:50:45.

as being victims of rape, and forced marriages to Muslim men. Thdre are

:50:46.:50:48.

no churches left in Afghanistan and in 2012 the grand Saudi Arabia

:50:49.:50:54.

proclaimed it is necessary to destroy all the churches of the

:50:55.:51:01.

region. I welcome the Commons the Honorable member is making on the

:51:02.:51:05.

state of Christian duty in the region, it is after all the crucible

:51:06.:51:08.

of Christianity and Ray Jests Christ himself emerged in the Arabhc

:51:09.:51:12.

communities that have been destroyed. There is one glilmer of

:51:13.:51:15.

light, that is the United Arab termites which has seen, ... I thank

:51:16.:51:25.

the Honorable gentlemen, I think he has made the point superbly. During

:51:26.:51:38.

the select committee's visit to Iraq, we also went to Jordan where

:51:39.:51:42.

one of the things we were extremely pleased to hear was that he has

:51:43.:51:48.

opened the Jordanian borders to all questions and they have accdpted a

:51:49.:51:51.

large number of Christian rdfugees there which has caused problems for

:51:52.:51:55.

him. He is determined to provide its. Thank you for that

:51:56.:52:02.

intervention, it cannot collect a highlight of your first terl, I had

:52:03.:52:05.

the great honour of meeting the king if I first Parliament in thd last

:52:06.:52:11.

five years. The most amazing gentleman I think I have evdr met

:52:12.:52:18.

and Godspeed to him. Is thotght contrast to these countries, the

:52:19.:52:21.

State of Israel remains comlitted to its declaration of independdnce to

:52:22.:52:25.

ensure the copied equality of all of its citizens irrespective of

:52:26.:52:30.

religion. Since his own's founding in 1948, its Christian popularity

:52:31.:52:34.

has increased a thousand fold, today Christianity as practiced bx more

:52:35.:52:38.

than 150,000 Israeli citizens and is the largest Buddhist committee in

:52:39.:52:43.

Israel after Jews and Muslils. Israel is home to the holiest sites

:52:44.:52:49.

in Christianity including the Church of the, where Jesus was was fired

:52:50.:53:01.

and resurrected. These though Christians are exempt from lilitary

:53:02.:53:05.

service, thousands of volunteers and have been sworn in on speci`l New

:53:06.:53:09.

Testament printed in Hebrew, the level of freedom in Israel hs

:53:10.:53:13.

remarkable, and one considers the oppression and persecution faced by

:53:14.:53:17.

citizens in neighbouring cotntries, including those under the

:53:18.:53:20.

Palestinian authority on thd West Bank and the oppressive ruld of

:53:21.:53:25.

Hamas in Gaza. 50% of the provision in the West Bank was Christhan in

:53:26.:53:31.

1950, they now make up less than 2%. Generation ago, as much as 0%

:53:32.:53:35.

of Bethlehem's population w`s Christian. This is now decrdased to

:53:36.:53:43.

10%, it is said we must continue to work together with Israel, ` country

:53:44.:53:48.

who upholds the rights of mhnorities in this turbulent region and the

:53:49.:53:52.

only country in the Middle Dast who shares our democratic values. I call

:53:53.:53:55.

upon the government to draw attention to the devastating decline

:53:56.:54:00.

in the Christian population in the Middle East and disassociatd itself

:54:01.:54:04.

with any countries who sanctioned minorities for their religious

:54:05.:54:12.

beliefs or ethnic origin. M`ny thanks Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish

:54:13.:54:18.

you an excellent fit and Tudsday and I am aware of your very strong

:54:19.:54:22.

Gaelic connections, thank you. I would like to thank the Backbench

:54:23.:54:30.

Business Committee for supporting these important debate and `lso the

:54:31.:54:34.

Honorable member from Bracknell for a very competent of speech `nd for

:54:35.:54:38.

encouraging this debate to take place. I would also like to declare

:54:39.:54:43.

an interest in terms of my husband having previously served as a member

:54:44.:54:48.

of the UK Armed Forces. Due to recent events there has been much

:54:49.:54:51.

debate regarding the issues in the Middle East and what the UK job an

:54:52.:54:56.

approach to this should be. Particular niche in the rathon in

:54:57.:55:00.

the air to Syria, this is a matter that was discussed at length on

:55:01.:55:03.

Thursday when the Prime Minhster delivered his statement copx he has

:55:04.:55:10.

indicated that he would do so, and a vote of his nature appears to be

:55:11.:55:12.

eminent, therefore the need for continued debate is imperathve and

:55:13.:55:17.

this debate is extremely tile he is. This is a serious and sdnsitive

:55:18.:55:24.

issue which has significant implications, for the Armed Forces

:55:25.:55:28.

and their families and four in response to the Middle East. I am

:55:29.:55:34.

aware that a do not want to throw out the seriousness of this debate,

:55:35.:55:41.

and in conclusion I will be creating... There are concerns that

:55:42.:55:48.

extending air strikes Assyrha may be ineffective and cause furthdr human

:55:49.:55:53.

suffering and increased Daesh recruiting appeals. There appears to

:55:54.:55:57.

be a consensus among many mhlitary experts in the area that thdre is

:55:58.:56:00.

likely to be with the benefht to such actions. It is recognised that

:56:01.:56:04.

a significant number of nathons have already launched bombing calpaigns

:56:05.:56:09.

in Syria with the campaign by the US already ongoing for approxilately

:56:10.:56:13.

one year, the suggestion th`t additional air strikes by the UK

:56:14.:56:16.

will make any significant dhfference appears unlikely.

:56:17.:56:23.

To join me in congratulating the First Minister on her invit`tion to

:56:24.:56:32.

host a women's Summit for pdace in Syria, and that she agreed with me

:56:33.:56:36.

that peace negotiations such as these that our leader should be

:56:37.:56:42.

engaged in, rather than... Which only stoke the fires support? Many

:56:43.:56:47.

thanks for the intervention. I would congratulate the First Minister and

:56:48.:56:52.

I would also emphasise that diplomacy is a very important. He

:56:53.:57:02.

has highlighted that the ye`r-long US campaign against Islamic state in

:57:03.:57:06.

Serbia is not widely acknowledged and has had little impact. Beyond

:57:07.:57:17.

shortening the narrative... The class my Scottish miss groups to

:57:18.:57:20.

highlight that is more innocent people die from the air strhkes the

:57:21.:57:24.

appeal of Daesh may be strengthened. In this regard, it is also hmportant

:57:25.:57:29.

to remember that many of thd recent terrorist attacks, which entered the

:57:30.:57:32.

consideration of air strikes have been carried out by individtals who

:57:33.:57:36.

already live in the countrids involved, therefore the isste of

:57:37.:57:41.

domestic threat is unlikely to be addressed to air strikes. The

:57:42.:57:43.

committee report emphasised a number of key issues which require further

:57:44.:57:48.

explanation before asking the House to approve a motion authorising

:57:49.:57:53.

military action. This included consideration of important latters

:57:54.:57:57.

such as legality, ground troops and long-term strategies and

:57:58.:58:02.

consequences, which have bedn highlighted as crucial in any

:58:03.:58:06.

military action. The action provided by the government to date h`ve not

:58:07.:58:10.

been adequate at addressing these concerns. Wishing she not hdre when

:58:11.:58:20.

she heard the chairman of the committee say that the six ports

:58:21.:58:22.

that raised by the government have been answered by the Prime Linister

:58:23.:58:28.

in a statement last week, and that he attended support the govdrnment

:58:29.:58:33.

and the cause frustration in Syria? I was indeed here for the ddbate. I

:58:34.:58:37.

did hear the Chairman state bills you. I would indicate that H do not

:58:38.:58:42.

believe his views are held by all the members of the committed.

:58:43.:58:48.

Ordinary citizens do not live Isis the terrorist. Over 14 years...

:58:49.:58:56.

Those unable to fully art and affect human shields. They are not able to

:58:57.:59:07.

hide. Bombing is generally ` prelude to ground forces, but would deny

:59:08.:59:12.

intent to send ground forces. Relying on around 70,000 local

:59:13.:59:18.

buyers from this pre-Syrian army, or do Russian forces stand and is this

:59:19.:59:22.

an effective strategy? But would striking Syria for political

:59:23.:59:25.

reasons, to show our strength as part of a Coalition? It may be a

:59:26.:59:33.

will hasten any political sdt of recent terrorist attacks here. There

:59:34.:59:39.

are few if any in this housd who would not wish to see action that

:59:40.:59:45.

would swiftly degrade Daesh or Isis, but widespread concerns remain

:59:46.:59:49.

on a number of fronts. The danger to civilian casualties... Over`ll

:59:50.:59:57.

strategic aim of such action, stomach will be in a position on the

:59:58.:00:04.

long-term outcome in Syria, well engaging air strikes reduce our risk

:00:05.:00:08.

here in the short or in the short oriented long-term? As much of the

:00:09.:00:13.

focus has been asked to read, I would also like to briefly highlight

:00:14.:00:17.

that there are other areas hn the Middle East were civilians `re

:00:18.:00:21.

suffering due to the effect of civil war, such as Yemen. It is ilportant

:00:22.:00:24.

that people receive approprhate attention and assistance. Hhghlight

:00:25.:00:32.

conflict and given millions of people are interesting issuds with

:00:33.:00:35.

poverty and hunger, since the escalation of the four in M`rch

:00:36.:00:40.

2015, these issues have intensified. There have also been

:00:41.:00:47.

over 32,000 casualties, and 570 fatality. Is reported that `t

:00:48.:00:54.

present 82% of the population are in need of humanitarian aid. It appears

:00:55.:00:57.

that there have been a positive impact on some of the support that

:00:58.:01:01.

the UK has provided thus far, and continues to be a for the ahd for

:01:02.:01:06.

civilians and diplomatic prdssure to be exerted by our government. In

:01:07.:01:11.

conclusion, we need a coherdnt UK approach across the Middle Dast

:01:12.:01:17.

Licking humanitarian, econolic, and diplomatic means. This appe`rs

:01:18.:01:22.

lacking as does any strateghc long-term approach to the

:01:23.:01:24.

difficulties faced by the Mhddle East from encouraging stability at

:01:25.:01:30.

this time, we hope to our to do my work is directly across the House.

:01:31.:01:34.

Torture and progress of response to the UK's role of the Middle East.

:01:35.:01:40.

Progressive policy, and survival of society and silvery and beyond.

:01:41.:01:46.

Questions remain to be answdred Solutions are complex and a clear

:01:47.:01:50.

and long-term military strategy requires to be developed and fully

:01:51.:01:58.

presented to this house. Can I command my friend bringing this

:01:59.:02:06.

debate to the chamber? Can `lso command the Minister -- comland

:02:07.:02:19.

Obtains their amid the Minister is engaged. Ambassadors there `re doing

:02:20.:02:25.

a tremendous job. Can also put on record that what they are doing and

:02:26.:02:30.

I hope I would describe in detail, the solution. Can also decl`re my

:02:31.:02:43.

members's interest and highlight to the House my declarations under a

:02:44.:02:49.

registered? Britain has a ddep involvement in the Middle E`st for

:02:50.:02:53.

centuries. The region occuphed at diplomatic and cultural for

:02:54.:02:57.

decades. Those close links of the bridge and I stand here tod`y that

:02:58.:03:02.

of Deputy Speaker. Britain was the heaven of choice for my famhly when

:03:03.:03:07.

we fled Sudan in the 1970s. Today, I still captured the news. But they

:03:08.:03:14.

are just a symptom, a potentially fatal symptom and a deep rift at the

:03:15.:03:20.

heart of the Muslim world. The rest testable cuts, all mattering at

:03:21.:03:25.

different layers. For decadds and restricted, puritanical

:03:26.:03:30.

interpretation of Sunni Isl`m have perforator across the region.

:03:31.:03:34.

Tradition more enlightened forms have been rejected this has led to

:03:35.:03:41.

more aggression and intoler`nt. Has led to the spread of extremhsm. With

:03:42.:03:47.

this interpretation which is what other social problems, such as

:03:48.:03:50.

unemployment, corruption and poverty. Which are all too common in

:03:51.:03:55.

these countries. Regional powers Saudi Arabia and Iran are in a

:03:56.:03:59.

standoff. Undermine each other. There've relationship fortune by

:04:00.:04:03.

suspicion and fear. In turn, they risked tearing apart their

:04:04.:04:08.

neighbours by proxy. Syria `nd Iran are both vulnerable to do this

:04:09.:04:17.

because of the origin. By the tour in part of the First World War.

:04:18.:04:24.

Would he not recognise that this is not the first time in the Mhddle

:04:25.:04:26.

East history that they have fought against the curse of the

:04:27.:04:35.

interpretation of Islam and that the density of each of the lost one of

:04:36.:04:40.

the great attacks on the province of Saudi Arabia in the 1800 as a part

:04:41.:04:46.

of this? By Fred is right. He is a great scholar and I look forward to

:04:47.:04:51.

his intervention in this debate today and hopefully Wednesd`y. In

:04:52.:04:57.

Iraq, a Sunni king installed to allow the bridges to dominate was

:04:58.:05:02.

replaced by a Sunni dictator. History, was created to enable

:05:03.:05:06.

dispersible. Both resulted hn bitter divisions of political opprdssion

:05:07.:05:11.

added to the device. That sdttlement maintained as it was only bx fear

:05:12.:05:18.

and force was completely collapse in wars. At the watch area torn apart

:05:19.:05:24.

by the civil war in Iraq, stuck in political deadlock that in by Isil

:05:25.:05:28.

obeisance, it has become cldar to us that a new settlement is nedded The

:05:29.:05:32.

one that the US began in 2003 is completely gone. The Iraqi

:05:33.:05:38.

government, the Army train, the Coalition is hollowed out and listen

:05:39.:05:43.

to provide much of the main forces against Isil. I have to say on that

:05:44.:05:48.

point, I commend the Foreign Secretary for the work he h`s done

:05:49.:05:51.

with that country to bring the band from the cold. As we fight to end

:05:52.:05:58.

this war and restore peace, we must recognise that real peace, peace

:05:59.:06:02.

that last and allows people to feel safe, get on with their livds, can

:06:03.:06:09.

only come from, federalism, and political reform. This is the aim

:06:10.:06:13.

and indeed a noble one that challenges stand in the way. Syria

:06:14.:06:17.

as Iraqis may but on represdntative government, but it is not what, may

:06:18.:06:23.

not be what Iran wants or what Saudi Arabia wants. It is not what the son

:06:24.:06:35.

is one. It is not what Assad wants. And wide? All they had ever known is

:06:36.:06:41.

full by the strongest. If you are not on-topic, you are under the

:06:42.:06:45.

thumb whoever is. They see ` protracted fight as preferable to

:06:46.:06:50.

letting down your guard in ` compromise that you might not

:06:51.:06:53.

survive. This lesson has bedn started to the region by systematic

:06:54.:06:58.

killings, right from the de`th throes of the Ottoman Empird and to

:06:59.:07:06.

the murderous rampage of Jose. We are not passing this. It was liquid

:07:07.:07:12.

to me last week in Iraq that we can influence of Baghdad. Those will

:07:13.:07:16.

agree with us are crying out for more influence in Baghdad. Right

:07:17.:07:24.

now, when talked about Baghdad, one of our badges in relation to

:07:25.:07:32.

supporting the government persecuting dissenters. Thex

:07:33.:07:35.

massacred members of Parlialent Was led to the creation of this monster

:07:36.:07:45.

Daesh, which is now out of control. He is right. The point of the show,

:07:46.:07:53.

though the government. However, as I said, we are not passive. Rhght now

:07:54.:07:59.

the only game in town is Ir`n, whose government may not want a strong

:08:00.:08:03.

region in Iraq. Or a Sunni dominated Syria. The prime ministers hs an

:08:04.:08:10.

ally. When he didn't make it clear to him that if he can push back and

:08:11.:08:16.

convince our friend that thdre is a different way and begin the project

:08:17.:08:20.

of rebuilding contract, aftdr the disastrous government of Malki, that

:08:21.:08:28.

we are with them all the wax. We can make it clear that we want to see

:08:29.:08:31.

the solution to Sunni preachers of Iraq, and inclusion so that the

:08:32.:08:35.

political project to become the difficult for Sony hopes th`t ought

:08:36.:08:42.

to be. Get them back and Ishl are finished. None should follow in

:08:43.:08:47.

their place. Dealt them, and we have not seen the last of this extremism

:08:48.:08:52.

and violence. Syria is not different in needing this kind of settlement.

:08:53.:08:57.

Assad got a doomed regime from his father. Rather than amid he was

:08:58.:09:04.

finished, he lashed out at the protest and bludgeoned his country

:09:05.:09:12.

into civil war. Aside's chalbers and never asked me that his famhly

:09:13.:09:20.

cannot continue to rule in Syria. To do so would guarantee that this is a

:09:21.:09:24.

war without end. There is a difference between a side and the

:09:25.:09:28.

regime. A distinction betwedn Assad and Alouette. A binary choice

:09:29.:09:33.

between Assad's reaching thd terror of Isil. To moderate rebels are

:09:34.:09:38.

vital to the future of the country and any future government wd can

:09:39.:09:43.

work with. Russia will see this to. Bulletins about to see isol`te

:09:44.:09:47.

control of the country. Anylore than we do -- President Clinton. I think

:09:48.:09:58.

President Putin was to keep his bases and presence in Syria and

:09:59.:10:01.

worth about the transition between Assad and the next government. On

:10:02.:10:06.

this, his views are legitim`te. We have no wish to dismantle the Syrian

:10:07.:10:12.

government. We want to see ` secular government to allow the minorities

:10:13.:10:17.

to be protected. Nor do we wish to threaten Russia's interest. There is

:10:18.:10:22.

very will loan for agreement. I political settlement that wd can

:10:23.:10:27.

reach and include all things and Russia can't become our partner in

:10:28.:10:32.

such a deal. To read between Sunni and Shia Muslim has existed for

:10:33.:10:35.

nearly as long as Islam has been a religion. That is not going to go

:10:36.:10:42.

away. But we do not need to do to achieve the. When I try to `gree

:10:43.:10:46.

that might achieve agreement on everything. Is right that pdople

:10:47.:10:49.

will always disagree about what is important and that life. Th`t is

:10:50.:10:55.

pluralism. What is important is resolving and compromising the

:10:56.:10:57.

strength and a democratic and legal way. That is the relay of Ddputy

:10:58.:11:03.

Speaker. They can achieve a new political system. That our partner

:11:04.:11:08.

for us to work in these countries. I met the American team, John McCain,

:11:09.:11:14.

testing ban. I think our promise is right to see that when he could

:11:15.:11:18.

extend our campaign to Sabrhna to buy Daesh, and I will be supporting

:11:19.:11:27.

him when to come forward. To the sun gear since I have worked in the

:11:28.:11:32.

Middle East. -- some gear. What I am about to say... Research undertaken

:11:33.:11:41.

Monday, strawberry. I have to say that I stand here about to give a

:11:42.:11:44.

rather short speech and not the one that I came in thinking it was going

:11:45.:11:54.

to be. I had been attempting to give when looking at the broad sweep of

:11:55.:11:57.

the Middle East, but I think the debate we have had thus far perhaps

:11:58.:12:01.

is better to leave that to `nother time to concentrate on the latter at

:12:02.:12:06.

hand and that of Syria. I h`d an interest for a long time both

:12:07.:12:13.

professionally and in other ways, and its capacity building in

:12:14.:12:18.

countries that have suffered from conflict in some way to rebtild

:12:19.:12:25.

their society. Hours concerned - I was concerned when I read the other

:12:26.:12:30.

day about this depression, `nd for the editor of the geopolitical news

:12:31.:12:39.

agency. He broke this. Only time will tell a win or lose this war.

:12:40.:12:43.

However, one thing is certahn. Cherie as a country has alrdady lost

:12:44.:12:50.

for the survival -- Syria. Perhaps in the future directions whdn no two

:12:51.:12:57.

stories that a country was called Syria existed on the planet. Let us

:12:58.:13:04.

hope that his concerns, his fears are not coming to pass. That

:13:05.:13:09.

something can be done. But the challenge facing any reconstruction

:13:10.:13:15.

issues and I think at times in this debate, people have been rather glib

:13:16.:13:21.

and the expectations about what can readily and easily be done. Let me

:13:22.:13:26.

just recite a few of the facts that we do seem to know from United

:13:27.:13:33.

Nations's agencies and others. The UN estimates that 8 million Syrians

:13:34.:13:37.

have been displaced from thdir homes and addition to the 4 million that

:13:38.:13:41.

have fled their country. Th`t is more than half the entire population

:13:42.:13:50.

pre-Civil War. 250,000, according to the UN had been killed. Half of them

:13:51.:14:00.

were civilians. Allowed the bank my friend. Does he agree with le given

:14:01.:14:07.

the number of refugees to the people of Jordan and Turkey, and pdople

:14:08.:14:10.

asked where the region who `re taking so many refugees and, that

:14:11.:14:14.

the UK need to help them out by taking more refugees? I agrde

:14:15.:14:19.

entirely. I argued in the Westminster Hall debate that one

:14:20.:14:24.

particular group that wanted to do more for the thousands upon

:14:25.:14:29.

thousands of orphaned children. Some of whom had been captured bx a Diyas

:14:30.:14:33.

and put in camps to be trained as suicide bombers, estimated hn the

:14:34.:14:39.

region of three to 400. Shortly compassion compels us to do more for

:14:40.:14:44.

the most vulnerable in Syri` at this time. Thank you for giving way. If

:14:45.:14:56.

it is, I still going to rem`in in the Middle East, more peopld get

:14:57.:15:05.

purged the states, surely bx removing those people, that they do

:15:06.:15:12.

not want, -- for serving -- were serving their interest and progress

:15:13.:15:14.

by removing the people out the way quits yellow are concerned that the

:15:15.:15:22.

vulnerability of the most innocent, most vulnerable. We of course want

:15:23.:15:29.

to find an anti-terrorism in the Middle East. The question that this

:15:30.:15:32.

house is going to going to have to address and perhaps a coupld of

:15:33.:15:37.

days' time, as to what he mdans is of accomplishing that. I suspect

:15:38.:15:42.

that I would disagree with xou. But I hope to be able to do in ly short

:15:43.:15:48.

speech today is to set out the scale of the challenge of rebuildhng

:15:49.:15:52.

whenever that rebuilding is going to be an able to start. Does hd agree

:15:53.:16:00.

with me that in relation to the feeding this evil organisathon, you

:16:01.:16:05.

have to copy its ideology, tphill, and self-proclaimed legitim`cy? We

:16:06.:16:09.

have to join our ally Francd and pay tribute to him and his proxhes for

:16:10.:16:13.

using the correct terminology and not liking this organisation to

:16:14.:16:22.

Islam. They are indeed evil scum. I think they are properly namdd Daesh.

:16:23.:16:25.

I think this house and many members of this house our page of the two

:16:26.:16:32.

because a few weeks ago, we were few in number, we called them dhe Ash.

:16:33.:16:37.

Stopping all those figures do correct terminology deserve credit

:16:38.:16:41.

in this debate. The member hs correct. This presents a huge

:16:42.:16:46.

ideological challenge. A cultural challenge to overcome, but H would

:16:47.:16:50.

like to say a few words of the practical infrastructure ch`llenge

:16:51.:16:53.

that we also face. Has been estimated recently that the

:16:54.:16:57.

productive capacity of Syri` has been so degraded that it is 80% less

:16:58.:17:05.

than it was pre-the war bre`king out four years ago. 37% of all hospitals

:17:06.:17:13.

in Syria have been completely destroyed. Any further 20% so

:17:14.:17:20.

degraded, that they are unable to provide anything but the kind of

:17:21.:17:26.

service they were able to provide before. There have been significant

:17:27.:17:32.

distraction of health, educ`tion, transport, water, sanitation, and

:17:33.:17:38.

energy infrastructure. Indedd it has reached the stage that some

:17:39.:17:43.

commentators have estimated that if the war was to end today, the Syria

:17:44.:17:50.

was to embark on a 5% growth pattern in this economy, which would be

:17:51.:17:58.

unlikely, it would take 30 xears to return it to the economic shtuation

:17:59.:18:07.

it was in 2010. There is another area I want to mention. Is not only

:18:08.:18:10.

that the infrastructure has been destroyed, it is to double-click the

:18:11.:18:17.

we are going to have diffictlty entering the area and startdd to

:18:18.:18:24.

reveal. On the chairman of the AAPG weapons, and I'm interested to carry

:18:25.:18:27.

out the bit of investigation into that situation in Syria. As well as

:18:28.:18:34.

the degrading of the infrastructure mystery in government has bden using

:18:35.:18:39.

anti-personnel mines,, manufactured in Russia, and clustered amlunition

:18:40.:18:45.

both deemed illegal by the Ottawa convention. Daesh use both

:18:46.:18:52.

ammunition and his close of the buses as landline. We are gdtting a

:18:53.:18:58.

bit of the of the who's war that is going to have to be cleared before

:18:59.:19:05.

any real development can take place. There's currently no mine action

:19:06.:19:10.

programme in to remove any of this. Understandably giving the conflict

:19:11.:19:13.

that is still under way. Thd fact the situation is unusual, that

:19:14.:19:22.

non-state parties, some of the terrorist groups have been known to

:19:23.:19:27.

dig up landmines from the mhnefields and attempt to reuse them for the

:19:28.:19:36.

purposes. The victims of explosive weapons figure predominantlx amongst

:19:37.:19:44.

us has already been huge. Ghven and I do not say this to condemn the

:19:45.:19:50.

United Kingdom, but given after the relatively small conflict that was

:19:51.:19:57.

the focal and 33 years ago, the UK has still not fully cleared all the

:19:58.:20:03.

landmines on the Falkland Islands. Think of the challenge that is going

:20:04.:20:09.

to be faced in a country like Syria given the state of the structure of

:20:10.:20:14.

which is already taken placd. Starting when we are debating in a

:20:15.:20:22.

few days and start to interrupt I visited the islands many tile. The

:20:23.:20:26.

problem that the pilots havd had is that the minds have sunk in Topeka,

:20:27.:20:32.

and will be more difficult `nd more destructive to remove the mhnds than

:20:33.:20:38.

two exit leaving there. That issue in some regards. Bachelor programme

:20:39.:20:47.

underway, many still being slammed by the UK Government to encourage

:20:48.:20:51.

other collectors. So it seels not to be accepted by the UK Government

:20:52.:20:54.

that that is the situation hn every case. Any case, the point I'm making

:20:55.:21:00.

is to simply defined the highlight the fact that we're going to face a

:21:01.:21:04.

huge challenge in Syria and it is one this house would well to

:21:05.:21:14.

address. I'm grateful to my Honorable friend. It is my tsual

:21:15.:21:25.

manner to try and respond to those who have spoken in the debate, but

:21:26.:21:28.

I'm aware at the time constraints and desire to get further b`ckbench

:21:29.:21:35.

contributions and. I make the stuff on may right to some of my

:21:36.:21:38.

colleagues to some of the qtestions that have been raised during this

:21:39.:21:47.

debate. My Honorable friend recognises to... After that is wise

:21:48.:21:52.

advice because in seeking solutions to today's challenges, it mtst be

:21:53.:21:56.

done through the prism of understanding people and thdir

:21:57.:22:02.

history. Is there to save bdtween the Nile, Nile, Jordan, Euphrates

:22:03.:22:08.

River is actually formed biblical cord of the area would call the

:22:09.:22:12.

cradle of civilization. Frol here so many of the stones of modern

:22:13.:22:17.

foundation of modern humanity from the basic laws, agricultural

:22:18.:22:20.

techniques, half of it, the will, and of course the face of Jtdaism,

:22:21.:22:28.

Christina Kim, and Islam all came from the part of the world. Is

:22:29.:22:34.

around this sparse water resources and coastlines, was halted `nd

:22:35.:22:38.

number break-out, religious groupings that communities which are

:22:39.:22:41.

subject to the waxing and w`ning of a series of empires and dyn`sties.

:22:42.:22:50.

Egyptian, Babylonian, Phoenhcian, Persian dynasties. It is fahr to say

:22:51.:22:55.

that a deputy speaker that the region experienced a thousand years

:22:56.:22:59.

of societal development, wars, culture, and of the governmdnt all

:23:00.:23:05.

before the first pitch of the bear tapestry was in fact made. Linister

:23:06.:23:15.

is making some excellent pohnts We talk a lot about cyber security do

:23:16.:23:24.

stay. Wendy, ... Which expl`in the correlation numbers and if he did

:23:25.:23:30.

before there were the king of England, there was no kingdom of

:23:31.:23:38.

Scotland. He underlines my point. The history and the dude how proud

:23:39.:23:45.

the fragment about this world is. It is true that eventual expansion of

:23:46.:23:50.

indeed our own empire that we have come to know this part of the world

:23:51.:23:55.

so well indeed. Is to our treaties, alliances, and I was aware `ble to

:23:56.:24:02.

and have alliances. Britain developed an intricate knowledge of

:24:03.:24:06.

relationship with much of the Middle East, which is still evident today.

:24:07.:24:12.

From the 1820s stay treaties with both giggled, to the so-called bill

:24:13.:24:19.

protectorates role of Egypt, the fire declaration, Britain's on

:24:20.:24:22.

history for better or worse if the plea intertwined and linked the

:24:23.:24:29.

security, economy, governments, in some cases the creation of states

:24:30.:24:39.

across the region. Forget the history lesson. But I believe that

:24:40.:24:42.

this backdrop we can fully appreciate the complex than a

:24:43.:24:48.

complexity of this region and the expectations that as one of the five

:24:49.:24:53.

permanent members of the UN Security Council, the world's leading stop

:24:54.:24:57.

our ancestral ties to the rdgion, which should be at the forefront of

:24:58.:25:02.

efforts to increase securitx and safeguard prosperity. Appointed

:25:03.:25:09.

Minister for giving way. I know how diligent he is being indebtdd to

:25:10.:25:14.

understand and to visit and talk to people in the region. Would he not

:25:15.:25:18.

also recognise that one of the major problems that we face it as a

:25:19.:25:24.

country at the hollowing out of the Congo office, where there is a lack

:25:25.:25:28.

of understanding of the history of the culture, politics, alli`nces,

:25:29.:25:31.

aspirations and the personalities within the region. Of to colmit a

:25:32.:25:38.

powerful case for that I ago. I m pleased to say this but the review

:25:39.:25:41.

confirmed what the's commitlent to making sure that we have thd money

:25:42.:25:46.

for the diplomatic contact to continue. I would say our ddsire to

:25:47.:25:52.

be at the forefront of the Liddle East that reflected in last week's

:25:53.:25:57.

was that my strategic review for commitment to building a more secure

:25:58.:26:00.

stable and prosperous Middld East and North Africa region is

:26:01.:26:05.

underlined. An increasingly globalised world, and as a country

:26:06.:26:09.

open to international busindss, we understand that our economic

:26:10.:26:14.

security goes hand-in-hand with our national security. Would thdrefore

:26:15.:26:19.

invest in protecting and projecting our influence and values. Today UK

:26:20.:26:24.

trade with the Middle East `nd North Africa is worth ?35 billion a gear.

:26:25.:26:31.

In the Emirates, 4000 UK colpanies are now based there. In Egypt,

:26:32.:26:35.

Britain is the largest tie-break before an investor. In Qatar, this

:26:36.:26:40.

country invests ?30 billion of its sovereign funds here in the UK.

:26:41.:26:45.

Enema, BP the largest onshore gas project in the world. House gas to

:26:46.:26:55.

quit to quit, and Israel thdre is a biotech technology committed have

:26:56.:26:59.

lost by the Prime Minister that is indeed driving. This is the strong

:27:00.:27:03.

relationship that creates the trust and allows us to raise issuds such

:27:04.:27:07.

as human rights, rule of law, and other aspects of justice because we

:27:08.:27:11.

can have those from convers`tions upfront.

:27:12.:27:16.

I thank you for giving way, I know my Honorable friend is familiar with

:27:17.:27:23.

the case of my constituents's father who is imprisoned in Iran, H wonder

:27:24.:27:26.

whether he thinks that relationship was improving between the UK and

:27:27.:27:30.

Iran will allow us to make the humanitarian case better for his

:27:31.:27:35.

release? I am grateful for his intervention, I can confirm that I

:27:36.:27:41.

think we are meeting on this next week, the fact that we do now have a

:27:42.:27:45.

dialogue with Iran does makd it easier for us to be able to deal

:27:46.:27:48.

with these matters. I look forward to doing my best to assist him and

:27:49.:27:53.

his constituent. Sadly, I should say that while there are reasons to be

:27:54.:27:57.

positive, many countries in the region continued to be affected by

:27:58.:28:01.

violence, and indeed in the region continued to be affected by

:28:02.:28:04.

violence, and indeed instabhlity the forgotten war by the Member for

:28:05.:28:07.

Hammersmith, in the country they advanced against the presiddnt

:28:08.:28:14.

government and has had catastrophic humanitarian consequences. 80% of

:28:15.:28:19.

the population are in urgent need of humanitarian assistance and the UK

:28:20.:28:23.

has so far pledged ?75 millhon of humanitarian support. Recently

:28:24.:28:27.

welcomed the crucial role that the Saudi Arabian led Coalition is

:28:28.:28:32.

doing, these military gains much be translated into progress on the

:28:33.:28:35.

political track and for an `greement of a cease-fire. I am most grateful

:28:36.:28:42.

to him for mentioning Yemen which should not be forgotten in

:28:43.:28:45.

discussion on the Middle East. What success has he had in persu`ding the

:28:46.:28:50.

Southeast to ease the bombing campaign which is causing so many

:28:51.:28:57.

were problems for the local people? And acknowledged the commitlent he

:28:58.:29:02.

makes this country as chair of the AAP gee, we are aware of approach in

:29:03.:29:07.

humanitarian law and we havd read these with the Saudi governlent and

:29:08.:29:10.

received beaded assurances of compliance. We will continud to

:29:11.:29:16.

engage on this issue. In Libya, but Deputy Speaker delays on both sides

:29:17.:29:22.

to confirm it government is allowing extremist groups to take advantage

:29:23.:29:26.

of the vacuum and gain traction as mentioned by all the members already

:29:27.:29:30.

in this debate. Progress has been made and I met the Prime Minister

:29:31.:29:37.

recently in Tunis, we very luch support as he calls together

:29:38.:29:42.

delegations took a firm comlitment to the implementation of thd

:29:43.:29:47.

political agreement. I'm gr`teful, he will share with me the tremendous

:29:48.:29:54.

frustration as to the government of national unity has proved in Libya

:29:55.:29:58.

to be so elusive, in the interregnum until we have secured the government

:29:59.:30:04.

of national unity, do you rdcognise the government as the offichal

:30:05.:30:09.

government of that country? I think my focus is and I have been involved

:30:10.:30:14.

in speaking to members of the delegation on both sides, and indeed

:30:15.:30:18.

at the UN General Assembly hs to get that government in place and working

:30:19.:30:23.

hard with the UN envoy and he is also involved in this as well. With

:30:24.:30:25.

regards to the Middle East peace process, we all know there hs an

:30:26.:30:30.

urgent need to create the conditions for the resumption of talks leading

:30:31.:30:35.

to a long-term peace agreemdnt and a 2 state solution. I certainly

:30:36.:30:38.

condemn the appalling murders of innocent people in the recent

:30:39.:30:42.

weeks. Both the Foreign Secretary and I have called on all sides

:30:43.:30:45.

restore calm and to improve the situation on the ground. In relation

:30:46.:30:52.

to Iran, the signing of the nuclear deal is welcome, I share others

:30:53.:30:57.

concerns about Iran's destabilising activity in the Middle East. Many of

:30:58.:31:00.

our partners in the region `lso share this view, there remahn a mess

:31:01.:31:06.

issues on which we disagree with Iran, such as its support for the

:31:07.:31:10.

Assad regime. Iran nonetheldss has influence in the region and the need

:31:11.:31:13.

to engage with them on thesd difficult issues. I would lhke to

:31:14.:31:20.

thank the Minister for giving way, I am wondering if the Minister can

:31:21.:31:25.

give us an update on when wd might expect to have able and air strikes

:31:26.:31:29.

and we will see a copy of that motion as has been called for by the

:31:30.:31:36.

Honorable friend tonight? I he with the Honorable member says and he

:31:37.:31:39.

places these issues, his concerns on the record. I seek your guidance

:31:40.:31:44.

when a Deputy Speaker, I cannot continue to take, I want to take

:31:45.:31:48.

interventions but I am conscience but also backbench time, if I may

:31:49.:31:52.

try to make some important progress. I do want to turn to the cotrt

:31:53.:31:56.

substance of today postponed debate, government strategy to defe`t I

:31:57.:32:01.

still. Madam Deputy Speaker, last Thursday my friend the Primd

:32:02.:32:03.

Minister comprehensively outlined the threat posed by Isil or Daesh as

:32:04.:32:08.

they are known in the region. Want more Britain can do following the UN

:32:09.:32:14.

Security Council resolution, 22 9 which calls on Member States to use

:32:15.:32:16.

all necessary measures to prevent and suppress terrorist acts of Daesh

:32:17.:32:21.

and other designated terrorhst groups. As colleagues, make their

:32:22.:32:25.

own assessments I thought it would be helpful to outline the strategy

:32:26.:32:31.

adopted by the city by strong Coalition in order to defeat -- in

:32:32.:32:37.

Iraq. Firstly, the military components, said action by the

:32:38.:32:42.

Coalition in September 2014 in conjunction with Iraqi forcds

:32:43.:32:46.

contained the advanced out of Daesh and prevented the fall of B`ghdad,

:32:47.:32:51.

and cookbook, to date 50% of the territory once controlled in Iraq

:32:52.:33:00.

has been retaken, including the cities, it is critical that a deputy

:33:01.:33:06.

speaker that indigenous forces, liberate their own territorx. So

:33:07.:33:09.

that they can take ownership of the long-term security. Training these

:33:10.:33:15.

forces will take time, but the cities of Mosul and Ramadi will be

:33:16.:33:18.

liberated and this'll be a significant to fleeing Iraq of

:33:19.:33:24.

Daesh. Secondly, the military and an digitisation support, the Coalition

:33:25.:33:27.

works closely with organisations and Iraqi security forces to ensure

:33:28.:33:32.

liberated communities are ghven the services they need as rapidly as

:33:33.:33:38.

possible. We also support the Iraqi government in important devdlopments

:33:39.:33:41.

such as the long-awaited but that he did it the National Guard l`ws which

:33:42.:33:44.

will give the Sunni populathon greater stake in their country.

:33:45.:33:51.

These Parish grant is that when the flow of fighters, as we degrade

:33:52.:33:55.

Daesh on the battlefield, wd watched cut off the flow of new recruits

:33:56.:34:01.

including the foreign fightdrs themselves. The fourth strand is

:34:02.:34:04.

cutting the financial streals of Daesh, the Coalition is working hard

:34:05.:34:09.

to squeeze their finances. Honda financing action plan identhfies

:34:10.:34:15.

donors, denies Daesh access to the financial system and do a ntmber of

:34:16.:34:21.

resolutions prohibits the s`le of of oil and antiquities. And Deputy

:34:22.:34:25.

Speaker, the final pillar of Visagie is strategic communications. We must

:34:26.:34:32.

debunk the ideology of Daesh, and working in partnership with our

:34:33.:34:35.

allies and civil society in the region to counter the extrelist

:34:36.:34:41.

doctrine. Critical to this hs defeating the laptop terrorhsts

:34:42.:34:44.

denying the ability for the poisonous ideology to reach a global

:34:45.:34:48.

audience via social media as well as the .net. Here also Britain is being

:34:49.:34:55.

a leading role in strategic communications working group, Madam

:34:56.:35:00.

Deputy Speaker. I Minister articulated on Thursday, military

:35:01.:35:03.

action and the extension of UK air strikes in Syria should not be seen

:35:04.:35:08.

in isolation but as part of a coherent entity that includds our

:35:09.:35:13.

context he was in strategy, the diplomatic and political process

:35:14.:35:18.

which is under way and a comprehensive humanitarian `nd

:35:19.:35:20.

stabilisation package for post conflict reconstruction. In

:35:21.:35:24.

February, I am delighted to share with the House the UK will be

:35:25.:35:28.

hosting a senior-level summht to discuss how the internation`l

:35:29.:35:31.

community can best assist the people of Syria in humanitarian support and

:35:32.:35:38.

stabilisation. Extending UK air strikes will help both a qu`litative

:35:39.:35:44.

and quantitative impact on Hsil Daesh, on a tactical level they are

:35:45.:35:50.

now full targeting of an adversary across a border that in itsdlf does

:35:51.:35:55.

not honour or recognise. Operationally we bring exceptional

:35:56.:35:59.

capability to the form of the Brimstone missile systems which are

:36:00.:36:05.

able to accurately take out targets, travelling at beads with no

:36:06.:36:09.

collateral damage. Strategically, but to also make a material

:36:10.:36:13.

difference on the defeat of Daesh interact by impeding the supply

:36:14.:36:17.

lines and thereby hastening the fall of Mosul and Ramadi. To also operate

:36:18.:36:23.

greater political pressure to the very headquarters the Daesh ordinate

:36:24.:36:27.

their activities. And Madam Deputy Speaker, it will give hope to the

:36:28.:36:32.

majority of people living in Raqqa clip under the direct and constant

:36:33.:36:36.

fear, and want to be liberated but not by Assad. At the time and, air

:36:37.:36:45.

strikes will impede the ability or them to operate freely, it will only

:36:46.:36:49.

be destroyed to the politic`l process and the ability of `ll

:36:50.:36:51.

Syrians to have their say in the future. The recent meetings of the

:36:52.:36:56.

international Syria support group in Vienna but together were thd first

:36:57.:37:01.

time the key international stakeholders, that included Iran,

:37:02.:37:04.

Saudi Arabia, Russia, the US, France, and Turkey stop the there is

:37:05.:37:09.

now a common vision of what is needed to end the war, stabhlise the

:37:10.:37:16.

region, and help the Syrian people. Military jeeps, politicians, and the

:37:17.:37:21.

public rightly ask what does success look like? In order to avoid the

:37:22.:37:26.

lengthy, and costly campaigns. That is where the Prime Minister has

:37:27.:37:30.

articulated a wider strategx in which the Terry action is jtst one

:37:31.:37:36.

element. And make it clear that a Deputy Speaker, I am not just

:37:37.:37:42.

concerned by this and just `s concerned by the ash itself, no

:37:43.:37:45.

longer is it focused on its so-called phase that it is dxtending

:37:46.:37:51.

its poisonous ideology into other ungoverned and fragile spacds, such

:37:52.:37:55.

as Libya, the Sinai, and northeastern Nigeria. Their mission

:37:56.:38:02.

inspires extremists further including those in Tunisia who

:38:03.:38:06.

killed 30 innocent British holiday-makers on the beach. I will

:38:07.:38:11.

not give weight. Their misshon is the changing of tactics to directly

:38:12.:38:17.

attack Austin targets, as wd saw in the recent tragedy in Paris. And

:38:18.:38:21.

beyond with the bombing of the Russian holiday-makers flying home

:38:22.:38:26.

from Egypt. This, my Deputy Speaker cannot go unchecked. That is why

:38:27.:38:35.

written must act. In conclusion all MPs have a duty to fully scrutinised

:38:36.:38:42.

the merits of the Prime Minhster's proposal. Why me must learn from our

:38:43.:38:46.

previous decisions taken by this house and taken in context, but I

:38:47.:38:52.

asked not be paralysed by them. We are dealing, with an implac`ble

:38:53.:38:59.

enemy, with whom we cannot negotiate, we have already taken the

:39:00.:39:06.

decision to fight -- in Irap, it has extended its fight will be on the

:39:07.:39:11.

so-called faith, the danger this poses, not just in Iraq and Syria,

:39:12.:39:17.

but in Paris in Tunis, in Ktwait City and in Ankara is understood by

:39:18.:39:22.

all members of the UN Securhty Council would have called upon all

:39:23.:39:27.

Member States who are able to tackle the scourge and eradicate their safe

:39:28.:39:32.

haven. That must be clear that the liberation of Raqqa is not just

:39:33.:39:38.

around the corner, it will take time, and progress on all strands of

:39:39.:39:49.

our strategy, but degrading and precinct pressure on Daesh `longside

:39:50.:39:51.

progress on the political track is the key. This strategy incltdes the

:39:52.:39:59.

70,009 extremist opposition who are already fighting both Daesh and

:40:00.:40:02.

Assad, Honorable members have mentioned this in number of times,

:40:03.:40:06.

warranties people? I clarifx, these are the hundreds of factions that

:40:07.:40:10.

since the Arabs bring have defended their local communities agahnst the

:40:11.:40:17.

tyranny of Assad but want no truck with terrorism or indeed extremism.

:40:18.:40:20.

They have successfully kept supply routes open and defeated thdm in the

:40:21.:40:27.

South. And as such, they ard the ones that we need to support are the

:40:28.:40:31.

ones that will play an important role in Syria's future. Thex will be

:40:32.:40:36.

part of the political transhtion in the park, country, they will come

:40:37.:40:43.

together in the region to form a opposition. At Scoggins, Madam

:40:44.:40:47.

Deputy Speaker, that the insurer, we continue to do all we can as a

:40:48.:40:52.

leading P5 nations to support allies our soft and hard capabilithes to

:40:53.:40:58.

help advance the end of the Syrian Civil war and to defeat for good. --

:40:59.:41:08.

Daesh. On behalf of my partx, I would like to apply the backbenchers

:41:09.:41:13.

who have secured this debatd today, we now know from one of the

:41:14.:41:16.

conservative contributions darlier that on Wednesday we will bd asked

:41:17.:41:20.

to vote whether or not to go to war in Syria, I think it is timhng, and

:41:21.:41:27.

appropriate that in the weeks that the proposition has been put that we

:41:28.:41:30.

should consider the wider historical, perspectives in the

:41:31.:41:37.

region. It is less than 100 years ago when the then colonial powers

:41:38.:41:41.

part of the man's that were once controlled by the Ottoman Elpire,

:41:42.:41:46.

and created the Middle East and the map of the territories we sde today.

:41:47.:41:53.

I have to say that some of those decisions were arbitrary, btt some

:41:54.:41:56.

of them did not take into account the territory on an ethnic

:41:57.:42:00.

identifications of the people live there but most importantly ht did

:42:01.:42:03.

not consult the people who were to be governed by these arrangdments

:42:04.:42:07.

nor did they have the heart, the Democratic free to post to which I

:42:08.:42:12.

think we all aspire. Does arrangements of not serve us well in

:42:13.:42:15.

the last century, they have been the source of much of the insectrity in

:42:16.:42:20.

that region. If we are to h`ve a wider debate, and a wider strategy,

:42:21.:42:24.

but think this country needs to be concerned not to repeat the mistakes

:42:25.:42:29.

of the past, but to make sure it sees a future where people will be

:42:30.:42:35.

consulted on their own government. I think it is widespread agredment in

:42:36.:42:39.

this chamber as to the type of political arrangements you would

:42:40.:42:41.

like to see in that part of the world, we believe they should be

:42:42.:42:45.

democratic in that people should be allowed to elect those who govern

:42:46.:42:49.

them, and we also I think would agree that we want them to be

:42:50.:42:55.

secular, at least not entirdly secular, to be state that whll

:42:56.:42:58.

tolerate religious freedom `nd allow religious expression. In dohng

:42:59.:43:02.

that, in pursuing those objdctives I believe we have to be both

:43:03.:43:06.

consistent and coherent in our foreign policy. And, it is fair to

:43:07.:43:12.

say, that the consistency of coherence has been absolute from the

:43:13.:43:18.

policies of this country under successive governments. I w`nt to

:43:19.:43:23.

pick on three examples wherd more work is required. The first is a

:43:24.:43:27.

situation with the Kurds, m`ny people have uploaded the Bush murder

:43:28.:43:30.

and of course ourselves and other Western countries and are coming to

:43:31.:43:36.

provide them with the resources they need in the current war which they

:43:37.:43:40.

are waging. But we will need to consider and support demands for

:43:41.:43:45.

Kurdish economy in the north of serious. Will also need to consider

:43:46.:43:49.

whether the time has come to recognise there should be a national

:43:50.:43:55.

state of Kurdistan which will bring not just confidence to the Kurdish

:43:56.:43:59.

people to make end up providing more security in the region in the longer

:44:00.:44:08.

term. The Honorable member from Edinburg is making an excellent

:44:09.:44:10.

point on the various policids that Her Majesty's government pursued in

:44:11.:44:14.

the region, on the point of Kurdistan and the possibility of a

:44:15.:44:19.

Kurdistan, he has made a very interesting argument. The only point

:44:20.:44:22.

I would make if I make is that if the creation of a Kurdish state were

:44:23.:44:26.

one to be done, will cause such unrest in the region that pdrhaps it

:44:27.:44:30.

would be something that would be best considered in due course rather

:44:31.:44:36.

than its time when the region is already in flames. My point is that

:44:37.:44:38.

it must be on the agenda, and that we cannot whereby appeared to be

:44:39.:44:46.

aligned with the Kurdish forces in Syria and Iraq and using thdm in

:44:47.:44:50.

many ways as a proxy and get at the same time denying their asphrations.

:44:51.:44:54.

That brings us to I'm afraid the situation with Turkey. I regard the

:44:55.:45:00.

region, where he strengthendd his position of the country to be in

:45:01.:45:05.

terms of the type of things we need to look forward to. We need in this

:45:06.:45:11.

country to have a serious dhalogue with the Turkish government and to

:45:12.:45:15.

bring our other allies into that dialogue as well to say that the

:45:16.:45:18.

manner in which they regard the Kurds is not acceptable and is not

:45:19.:45:22.

going to need to the longer term peace that we want to see in the

:45:23.:45:26.

region. The second and it h`s been mentioned aspect to pick on is Saudi

:45:27.:45:33.

Arabia. Is frankly in terms of the way it treats many of its pdople is

:45:34.:45:38.

barely beyond the mediaeval. I am for one dumbfounded at the

:45:39.:45:43.

continuing close this of thd Foreign Office with the government of Saudi

:45:44.:45:47.

Arabia and our continued desire to arm them, even in the situation

:45:48.:45:52.

where there is credible evidence that the Saudi Royal Air Force is

:45:53.:45:57.

using British supplied weapons against the civilian population in

:45:58.:46:02.

neighbouring Yemen. And contrary to our own rules in pertaining as

:46:03.:46:11.

countries arms supply. What there will would be in preparing ` lasting

:46:12.:46:15.

settlement in the area. The third and final point out I did touch on

:46:16.:46:18.

in terms of the need for consistency and coherence is the question of

:46:19.:46:23.

Israel, Palestine which in lany ways has been overlooked in the last few

:46:24.:46:26.

years. Yet the situation thdre is getting worse than has been. The

:46:27.:46:33.

level of violence now is getting to a very intense levels and it was the

:46:34.:46:39.

Honorable member who pointed out the disparity in the balance and a

:46:40.:46:45.

number of casualties is completely an equal. The reaction of the

:46:46.:46:48.

Israeli Defense forces in m`ny ways is not only does proportion`te but

:46:49.:46:52.

in many lives could be conshdered unlawful. Cannot continue to ignore

:46:53.:46:58.

the situation in Palestine, we have got a situation in the occupied

:46:59.:47:02.

territories, in the Green zone, am not sure if I'm getting extra time

:47:03.:47:11.

for your interruptions,... @ very small intervention, he raisdd an

:47:12.:47:14.

excellent point, he has madd a very good argument. The thing th`t had

:47:15.:47:20.

struck me and I wonder whether it had struck him over the last four or

:47:21.:47:24.

five years that since the so-called Arab Spring, the question of Israel

:47:25.:47:27.

has not been mentioned on the Arab street, the question is not whether

:47:28.:47:32.

or not Israel is legitimate but on the governance of the Arab countries

:47:33.:47:34.

themselves and with the Arab countries themselves and with AP on

:47:35.:47:39.

the question of government that he himself had spoken of extrelely

:47:40.:47:42.

fluently but in getting ourselves result of a rabbit hole of talking

:47:43.:47:47.

about the Israel Palestine puestion which is a distinct question from

:47:48.:47:49.

the question of governance hn the region. It is distinct, but you can

:47:50.:47:56.

consider a lasting peace in the Middle East without addresshng the

:47:57.:47:59.

situation which is there and I think it has been brushed under the carpet

:48:00.:48:02.

at the moment. Within the occupied territories we have a situation now

:48:03.:48:07.

where the Israeli government is on the one hand, sponsoring and

:48:08.:48:10.

supporting the development of new settlements, and on the othdr hand

:48:11.:48:15.

the demolition of a listing in homes and properties, that is cre`ting a

:48:16.:48:18.

situation I believe which is close to annexation of those occupied

:48:19.:48:24.

territories into the state of Israel. That maybe is a's intention

:48:25.:48:29.

but it is pursue that path ht basically means that the separate

:48:30.:48:34.

Palestinian state is not thdre, and there for the two state solttion is

:48:35.:48:37.

not there. Be Israeli government should a challenge to say that it is

:48:38.:48:42.

going to continue with thesd policies, what it sees as the

:48:43.:48:45.

longer-term situation for a settlement of the conflict between

:48:46.:48:47.

Palestinians and Israelis in that part of the world, meanwhild why

:48:48.:48:53.

this is happening, we still have a situation of millions of Palestinian

:48:54.:48:56.

refugees held in some circlds holding pattern in the refugee camps

:48:57.:48:58.

in neighbouring countries, `nd denied any hope or any prospect of

:48:59.:49:04.

having a place that they can call home. Have to say in all

:49:05.:49:08.

seriousness, one of the things this country could do, acting in concert

:49:09.:49:12.

with other Western countries is to try and take a fresh initiative from

:49:13.:49:16.

the question of Israel, Paldstine and the scene to try and advocate

:49:17.:49:20.

the human rights of Palestinians, and your climate for a lasthng and

:49:21.:49:26.

balanced piece in that area. If they did that, single-handedly that would

:49:27.:49:30.

serve a lot, undermining concert, much of the pathology that has been

:49:31.:49:35.

put up about -- about this being a conflict between the West and Islam,

:49:36.:49:40.

if he were seen to take new action on Palestine. In a situation where

:49:41.:49:43.

no one is talking, there ard no talks are ongoing at the minute

:49:44.:49:46.

none are planned. Enough in correspondence with the Minhster

:49:47.:49:49.

that he is sympathetic to m`ny of the things that just that, this

:49:50.:49:53.

seems to be the policy therd are not speaking, the UK cannot continue to

:49:54.:49:56.

be silent on what is happenhng in that part of the world. So, to come

:49:57.:50:02.

to Syria itself which is thd main event that we are discussing, I want

:50:03.:50:06.

to be absolutely clear that the Scottish National Party unddrstands

:50:07.:50:11.

the threat that is posed to our way of life in Daesh and we sympathise

:50:12.:50:15.

absolutely with the requirelent for international action to unddrmine an

:50:16.:50:20.

eradicate that organisation. Our concern is, not to do something in

:50:21.:50:24.

the short term, which will lake things worse in the immediate and

:50:25.:50:30.

long-term, that is why remahned unconvinced about the need for a

:50:31.:50:35.

strikes, they are being proposed. They are being proposed in

:50:36.:50:41.

isolation, if you have aeri`l bombardment in isolation, what they

:50:42.:50:46.

do is rearrange the powers of rubble, you are going to result in

:50:47.:50:51.

some innocent casualties, as collateral damage takes place, will

:50:52.:50:55.

create more refugees and most of all you play into Daesh which this is

:50:56.:51:03.

the crusaders coming to denx the Muslim people their way of life

:51:04.:51:07.

Unless, you have the forces on the ground, all you do with your strikes

:51:08.:51:11.

is destroyed territories, not control it. Therefore, honest there

:51:12.:51:16.

is a proper ground campaign that has linked into the strikes, we see it

:51:17.:51:21.

as irrelevant to make the R@F, the 13th Air Force in the skies over

:51:22.:51:25.

Syria. For 15 months, the Alericans have been bombing almost dahly these

:51:26.:51:30.

positions and yet the situation on the ground has not changed one

:51:31.:51:34.

engine Syria. If anything, Daesh a stronger than they were 15 lonths

:51:35.:51:38.

ago. Again am not sure if I have time,... In relation to the troops

:51:39.:51:46.

were numbers on the ground. He would know that at the Vienna conference,

:51:47.:51:50.

they were tasked with identhfying moderate groups that can work with

:51:51.:51:54.

international communities, H have not seen a list, of the smarter

:51:55.:52:02.

groups and argue smarter groups part of the 70,000 we were told would be

:52:03.:52:09.

part of it? I the Prime last Thursday whether he envisagd a

:52:10.:52:14.

situation where the free Syrian army and the Kurds were going to launch a

:52:15.:52:20.

successful defensive against Daesh ignoring or pretending that the

:52:21.:52:23.

Syrian army is not actually there. I did not get a satisfactory `nswer,

:52:24.:52:26.

it seems to me there is a 4,way civil war going on in Syria at the

:52:27.:52:31.

moment. Some of those four sides are actually quite complicated

:52:32.:52:33.

coalitions themselves. If wd are going to put a opera first strategy,

:52:34.:52:40.

what we need to do is get the other three sides to agree to co-ordinate

:52:41.:52:45.

action against Daesh. That hs where the focus of the dramatic effort

:52:46.:52:48.

should be put, I realise how difficult that is going to be, I

:52:49.:52:52.

realise many of the groups associated with the free Syrian army

:52:53.:52:56.

for example with the Assad hs more of an and enemy, it is going to take

:52:57.:53:02.

a lot of negotiation in orddr to bring that together. Does not mean

:53:03.:53:05.

they have to share it, and structure, it does not mean they

:53:06.:53:08.

have to share zones of oper`tion, these could be separate. It has to

:53:09.:53:13.

be Courtney did, we cannot have a situation where some of these groups

:53:14.:53:17.

are simply trying to do what would be our bidding in a completdly

:53:18.:53:21.

irrelevant and ineffective lanner. That seems to me to be a recipe for

:53:22.:53:26.

disaster. The one hoping all of this is the Vienna process, the fact that

:53:27.:53:30.

this dialogue is under way, we would say that the time now should be

:53:31.:53:36.

spent in boosting that procdss, in trying to get the political and

:53:37.:53:40.

diplomatic agreements that we need for co-ordinate action that will be

:53:41.:53:44.

successful, not just informhng places into the stone age btt in

:53:45.:53:49.

actually taking control of land starting with a military

:53:50.:53:51.

administration and passing that over to civilian administrations month by

:53:52.:53:57.

month, year by year. Unless that remark is in place, and unlhke the

:53:58.:54:03.

chairman of the select commhttee why have respect for, unlike hil I

:54:04.:54:06.

remain to be convinced, on the opportunity comes on Wednesday, the

:54:07.:54:09.

Scottish National Party will not be voting to go to war in Syri`.

:54:10.:54:20.

Further to the point of orddr that was raised earlier in the ddbate

:54:21.:54:24.

about the feminist making a statement to the media, but not

:54:25.:54:29.

coming before the House, it is now on social media that it appdars that

:54:30.:54:33.

the media have already been informed that we be having a debate hn House

:54:34.:54:38.

on Wednesday, said after I linister questions to discuss and vote on the

:54:39.:54:42.

issue of Syria, I wondered ly deputy speaker whether you would h`ve the

:54:43.:54:46.

Gracie of any minister coming to you two explained they would like to say

:54:47.:54:50.

that to the House before brhefing the price a while when votes will

:54:51.:54:58.

take place. I have not recehved any confirmation or otherwise from the

:54:59.:55:03.

Minister, excuse me I have not received any confirmation. But I

:55:04.:55:06.

have been in the chair for the whole of this time, I think the usual

:55:07.:55:10.

thing would be for a ministdr to bring forward a programme motion,

:55:11.:55:15.

the Leader of the House, and we wait to see whether that happens. Until

:55:16.:55:18.

then, nothing has been confhrmed or not confirm. I too would like to

:55:19.:55:27.

congratulate my Honorable friend, the Member for securing this

:55:28.:55:33.

important and very timely ddbate. In the first instance I wish to declare

:55:34.:55:39.

an interest as a board membdr for the Council for British

:55:40.:55:44.

understanding, how much I enjoyed and appreciated contribution of the

:55:45.:55:47.

Honorable member for Edinburgh East which I thought was very thoughtful

:55:48.:55:50.

and a great deal of which I agreed with. The Middle East, of course has

:55:51.:55:55.

been a source of enormous tdnsion for many years. As many contributed

:55:56.:56:02.

to this debate mentioned, written does have an important role to play

:56:03.:56:10.

-- Britain, next year will be the centenary of the Sykes pico

:56:11.:56:12.

agreement which of course shaped much of the Middle East as we know

:56:13.:56:17.

it now, and in fact modern Syria can be dated back to the X pico. British

:56:18.:56:26.

release policy combines a ntmber of approaches and conditions, some are

:56:27.:56:29.

influenced by direct nation`l interest, some positions in the EE

:56:30.:56:33.

land of the United States, `nd other regional powers. Given all the

:56:34.:56:38.

crisis that exists in the rdgion at the moment including of course

:56:39.:56:42.

Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Palestine, these policy poshtions

:56:43.:56:50.

may sometimes appear contradictory. I believe it is important for us to

:56:51.:56:54.

have this debate today, manx Honorable members have focused on

:56:55.:56:59.

Syria for what I think are very clear reasons, no doubt thex will be

:57:00.:57:02.

many further contributions to the discussion of Syria in the course of

:57:03.:57:09.

the next 48 hours. I would like to focus my brief contribution to this

:57:10.:57:15.

debate on what was were manx areas the daily Eastern problem, that is

:57:16.:57:20.

the issue of Israel and Paldstine. And, as the Honorable member for Ed

:57:21.:57:25.

Murray East pointed out, Israel and Palestine seem to have been

:57:26.:57:31.

overlooked over recent years, it is bursting onto the international

:57:32.:57:34.

consciousness of the moment with what is increased and violent

:57:35.:57:40.

tension in that country. Since the beginning of October, the vholence

:57:41.:57:47.

in Israel and the West Bank, has resulted in the deaths of 84

:57:48.:57:53.

Palestinians and 11 Israelis, and over 9000 Palestinians have been

:57:54.:57:58.

injured and 133 Israelis, there is talk indeed these being the third.

:57:59.:58:05.

The latest surge in violencd began after a Palestinian stabbed two

:58:06.:58:10.

Israelis to death in the old city of Jerusalem which of course is

:58:11.:58:13.

something that all Honorabld members would condemn. It has to be wonder

:58:14.:58:19.

however whether the Israelis in their response Dave act

:58:20.:58:24.

proportionately, they have drected more walls to surround the West

:58:25.:58:32.

Bank, adding to the 750 km of security fences that are rapidly

:58:33.:58:37.

caging in the West Bank. Thdy have filed a protested on the Gaza border

:58:38.:58:41.

and early in October, nine Palestinians were killed in what

:58:42.:58:44.

Israel claimed was an attempt to bridge defence. Now, the catses of

:58:45.:58:49.

the conflict are many and v`rious, and go back to 1960s, and bdyond.

:58:50.:58:58.

But, it seems the recent escalation was sparked at least in part by

:58:59.:59:04.

research and an access by Israelis to the Al-Aqsa compound in Jerusalem

:59:05.:59:08.

puffballs old city. The French government has called for an

:59:09.:59:14.

international observer forcd to be deployed, I would strongly trge the

:59:15.:59:17.

government to give serious consideration to that proposal.

:59:18.:59:21.

Because the compound has many years been a source of tension and I

:59:22.:59:25.

believe that if Britain can play some part in defusing the tdnsion,

:59:26.:59:28.

then it will be giving a wonderful thing. Israel really has to

:59:29.:59:35.

understand that although many in this country and indeed in this

:59:36.:59:41.

house we understand that it has a history that renders it unipue, that

:59:42.:59:47.

he is concerned about its own borders, that it is indeed `

:59:48.:59:51.

democracy. Many of its actions in the region to it a huge disservice,

:59:52.:59:57.

most particularly the incre`se in the number of settlements on the

:59:58.:00:02.

West Bank. In fact, the settlement programme continues unabated, on the

:00:03.:00:08.

8th of October, Israel's defence minister said the settlement

:00:09.:00:12.

building was not frozen even for one minute. He pledged that Isr`el would

:00:13.:00:18.

as he put it continue to buhld for the future.

:00:19.:00:23.

If Israel continues to divide the Palestinians any prospects of

:00:24.:00:33.

constituting itself other state or with a dignity they are enthtled to,

:00:34.:00:38.

then Israel will continue to experience the sort of violdnce that

:00:39.:00:48.

it is in at the moment. Isr`el has a great amount to commend itsdlf.

:00:49.:00:52.

Alike that I have to hospit`l in an East Jerusalem treats equally

:00:53.:00:59.

patients of Israeli and Paldstinian extraction. But to continue to deny

:01:00.:01:06.

the Palestinians at homeland of their own but only result in a

:01:07.:01:16.

continued escalation of violence. And render the prospect of ` 2 state

:01:17.:01:22.

solution almost impossible. Today, and the climate talks in Paris, the

:01:23.:01:30.

Israeli Prime Minister and the president of the Palestinian

:01:31.:01:36.

Authority exchanged a handshake This may possibly be the st`rt of a

:01:37.:01:41.

dialogue between the two sides once again. It is dialogue that hs needed

:01:42.:01:48.

and not at the Secretary-General of the United Nations put it, the

:01:49.:01:55.

continued closure of the Palestinian behind walls. We do have to find our

:01:56.:02:00.

way towards a solution. I bdlieve that this country, with his long

:02:01.:02:04.

history of the bodies can play as part. I believe that with goodwill

:02:05.:02:08.

on both sides, we may get to see a resolution of the most pershstent of

:02:09.:02:17.

complex. Another focus of the House is very much on Syria, but not that

:02:18.:02:21.

we've heard we'll be hearing a debate on the subject on Wednesday,

:02:22.:02:25.

I hope the House will forgive me for mentioning another country hn the

:02:26.:02:32.

Middle East. That is human. Because the situation and Yemen has reached

:02:33.:02:38.

crisis point -- Yemen. A organisation pulling over 20 million

:02:39.:02:43.

Yemenis, 80% of the populathon are in urgent need of food, watdr and

:02:44.:02:49.

medical aid. This is in fact the largest humanitarian crisis anywhere

:02:50.:02:53.

in the world. The Danish refugee Council estimates that over 462

:02:54.:03:02.

people who died, and that 28,59 people have been injured as a result

:03:03.:03:06.

of the fighting and bombing campaigns. 573 of those werd chosen.

:03:07.:03:15.

On average, 30 people have been killed and 185 injured everx day in

:03:16.:03:23.

given. Since the end of March. The dumbest of this country alrdady

:03:24.:03:27.

limited infrastructure makes a delivery very challenging. This will

:03:28.:03:33.

also make post conflict reconstruction extremely difficult.

:03:34.:03:36.

As a director vote of this, at least a director is old of this d`mage, at

:03:37.:03:44.

least across the country. Two after that, and lack of fuel has

:03:45.:03:47.

restricted the use of water pumps, which is left 13 billion Yelenis,

:03:48.:03:56.

50% of the population struggling to find adequate amount of cle`n water

:03:57.:04:01.

to drink or to grow crops. @ report published by the all party group on

:04:02.:04:08.

given -- Yemen has not been responded to by the Minister and I

:04:09.:04:12.

know he has many pieces of paper that many visits to make. Btt I hope

:04:13.:04:19.

people respond to that report as soon as he can. , to commend the

:04:20.:04:24.

efforts of the Prime Ministdr and void to give Yemen. A very very hard

:04:25.:04:32.

on this subject. And is alw`ys and dialogue with members of thd local

:04:33.:04:36.

community. With can all see the effects of this crisis. Not just, it

:04:37.:04:43.

doesn't just affect those ndar Yemen, it also affects Greece now

:04:44.:04:50.

because there is evidence that a number of Yemenis are making their

:04:51.:04:55.

way to Greece and sticking to come to the EU because there is no visa

:04:56.:05:00.

restriction between Yemen and Turkey. Over 1.4 million people in

:05:01.:05:09.

Yemen have been internally displaced and are raising the prospects of an

:05:10.:05:13.

unprecedented refugee crisis. I m afraid that the situation in the

:05:14.:05:17.

Yemen, despite the efforts of my neighbour and vice chair of the all

:05:18.:05:25.

party group on Yemen, does not seem to have captured the imagin`tion of

:05:26.:05:32.

this house for the British people. Because we are always concentrating,

:05:33.:05:41.

is situation between Palesthne and Israel or not Syria, previotsly Iraq

:05:42.:05:47.

and Afghanistan. But the too many people are suffering terribly.

:05:48.:05:54.

Although we were very grateful. To pay tribute to the word that he has

:05:55.:05:57.

done. I spoke to the presiddnt last week. Underline Britain's commitment

:05:58.:06:05.

to seeking a solution. Both sides are meeting in Switzerland `nd the

:06:06.:06:11.

very near future. Was certahnly wish the UN envoy to their success. I

:06:12.:06:15.

agree with him that the sittation is dire. To make matters worse, but is

:06:16.:06:23.

the report of... This is a port city not run by Al-Qaeda. That is a

:06:24.:06:28.

serious situation and which in love of aspects in the Middle East to

:06:29.:06:34.

overshadow what is happening there. Was shouldn't allow ourselvds to be

:06:35.:06:39.

diverging from this. -- we shouldn't. I welcome the news he has

:06:40.:06:42.

given today. I welcome the news he has given today's copy Advocate will

:06:43.:06:44.

be helpful if President Hardy was able to come into the UK and

:06:45.:06:47.

addressed members of this house to tell us about the situation that is

:06:48.:06:52.

going on there. Big grateful to the Saudis. Without the support,

:06:53.:06:55.

President Hardy when I have had safe haven. Gently to say to colleagues

:06:56.:07:02.

and allies, which is what the Saudis are, how to stop to stop thd

:07:03.:07:08.

bombing. To allow the humanhtarian aid to come in and help this country

:07:09.:07:13.

be able to be reconstructed. There were reports that Harding h`d a torn

:07:14.:07:20.

-- return. But what is good news. And that will help us to redstablish

:07:21.:07:24.

them at the legitimate preshdent of given. Whatever is left of ` great

:07:25.:07:32.

heritage site. I cannot bear to think but it happened. When I left

:07:33.:07:40.

Yemen, I was only nine years old. My sister was a different age, I can't

:07:41.:07:44.

disclose, she would get upsdt. Other members will know that involvement

:07:45.:07:50.

there. I can't bear to think of what has happened to this countrx.

:07:51.:07:56.

Finally, I can imagine to the Shia country of interest. Is not hard to

:07:57.:08:02.

Middle East -- to initiate. But we will include as part of being the

:08:03.:08:05.

Arab world. Another minister has gone to two Visio recently `nd is

:08:06.:08:11.

very focused on the situation I am worried that the current tr`vel ban,

:08:12.:08:17.

despite the fact that I support we need to take urgent action `t that

:08:18.:08:22.

time it was necessary, the current travel ban is that something into

:08:23.:08:27.

the hands of those who wish to destabilise the Tunisia govdrnment.

:08:28.:08:34.

When I went to Seuss recently, 0% of the hotels had closed down to the

:08:35.:08:38.

travel ban was right to affdct. Which meant that thousands of

:08:39.:08:45.

Tunisians and we bridge of the biggest country in terms of the

:08:46.:08:50.

resume to Tunisia, thousands of two nutrients are now unemployed and

:08:51.:08:57.

with that, unemployment, gods property and the possibilitx that

:08:58.:09:00.

they are susceptible to the appeals of those who wish to destabhlise the

:09:01.:09:06.

Tunisia government. This is a government democratically elected.

:09:07.:09:09.

That gives you support to Ttnisia. We have doubled the number of people

:09:10.:09:14.

working at the Tunisia embassy, but we need to do more. Underst`nd

:09:15.:09:21.

people have dropped off and the bay because apparently the debate on

:09:22.:09:25.

Wednesday, but figured more time here for me to intervene. On this

:09:26.:09:33.

point, and my visit to Tunisia, I can confirm we would do a ddtailed

:09:34.:09:38.

plan of what is required in order to return at Britain back. Bristol to

:09:39.:09:41.

return back to holiday in the country, but the first of any Prime

:09:42.:09:46.

Minister is the safety of those citizens. We are working very

:09:47.:09:50.

closely and progress is being made. Help to lift the ban very some. That

:09:51.:10:01.

is very good news. I hope hd will die by constantly and these

:10:02.:10:06.

interventions. That will help the Tunisia government and honestly Of

:10:07.:10:10.

course the safety of British people is paramount consideration, but

:10:11.:10:13.

certainly one I wanted the security had increased. Think that wd have a

:10:14.:10:18.

role, bridges policing a broad as bad as the best in the world.

:10:19.:10:24.

Sometimes we don't send ahe`d, there are police and the don't send the

:10:25.:10:27.

pre-to migrate them as much as we should. But if you go about, the

:10:28.:10:32.

talk about the skills of thd police and security services and wd need to

:10:33.:10:36.

provide them with the help. But that is he brings to the House about

:10:37.:10:39.

Tunisia, I am very pleased to hear that. The Tunisia government should

:10:40.:10:44.

work with us to provide that greater security that is necessary. In

:10:45.:10:51.

conclusion, please are said A, I know he is focused on the contrary,

:10:52.:10:54.

if you can get that he would be there. But you can't go bec`use it

:10:55.:11:03.

is so dangerous. Please makd sure the shape that Yemen isn't his

:11:04.:11:06.

thoughts and the cost of thd British Government. It is an import`nt

:11:07.:11:12.

country in which to not lifted veil. -- not lifted veil. Was foctsed soon

:11:13.:11:25.

the Mac contains the line... I think it applies so farewell to what

:11:26.:11:29.

occurs in this chamber so h`lf the. We are blinded by day-to-dax

:11:30.:11:35.

advance, but the proximity of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, we find it

:11:36.:11:38.

harder to take a step back `nd look at the long duration of our

:11:39.:11:45.

involvement of the region. That is why I congratulate the back bits of

:11:46.:11:47.

the region. That is why I congratulate the back bench with his

:11:48.:11:52.

committee on printing this debate -- on securing the survey. And allows

:11:53.:11:55.

us to engage in a wider sense of longer-term issues because H think

:11:56.:12:01.

if we look back over the past rate of our engagement with the Liddle

:12:02.:12:04.

East, and time there has bedn a major issue, greater inhibition or

:12:05.:12:11.

less intervention, or for no intervention at all Pratt. But the

:12:12.:12:16.

medium point of all those ddbates have been one engagement on the part

:12:17.:12:22.

of the UK. Is right to take a step back and ask why that might be. To

:12:23.:12:26.

ask whether it is the right thing going forward and what would find us

:12:27.:12:32.

about a decision that we have to take in the next day or two, and

:12:33.:12:36.

look at why we are there anx long-term and how it impacts our

:12:37.:12:44.

national interest. But the Lember for Glasgow South in at a b`r were

:12:45.:12:48.

urging us to learn the lessons of history to look at individu`l events

:12:49.:12:53.

to draw a conclusion from the. I always find that perhaps thd most

:12:54.:12:57.

frustrating aspect of debatd in this chamber because history can be a

:12:58.:13:03.

fickle lover I find. Whatevdr argument you can find that one event

:13:04.:13:09.

that supports our argument `nd disproves our opponents's. This is

:13:10.:13:13.

very dangerous indeed. History can mislead. It is far better to focus

:13:14.:13:18.

on individual events, but to try have a look at some of the lore the

:13:19.:13:22.

medications. That underpin our engagement with this region. Of

:13:23.:13:27.

course foreign policy is gohng to be affected on a day-to-day basis, by

:13:28.:13:31.

what occurs in the news. Turkey shoots down a Russian jet, of course

:13:32.:13:37.

that has political consequences of military must respond to. Btt what

:13:38.:13:42.

really affects the bridge and is not the day-to-day news, but wh`t is

:13:43.:13:48.

actually a caring to real ordinary people on the ground. Across the

:13:49.:13:53.

Middle East, we see a number of things. Great demographic change, a

:13:54.:13:58.

growing population of the book, without the and that the -- economic

:13:59.:14:06.

growth. Them if they become discontented and can lead to

:14:07.:14:11.

government changes, and povdrty underpins the strain. In addition,

:14:12.:14:22.

we assume changes -- are saxing changes to the economic strtctures

:14:23.:14:26.

of the countries. Agriculture is changing, job security is

:14:27.:14:32.

diminishing. The certificathon, possibly caused by climate change,

:14:33.:14:37.

who is to say. I'm not an expert. But it is leading to urbanization

:14:38.:14:41.

which is accelerating some of those changes I prefer to just now.

:14:42.:14:46.

Regarding the employment of young people and a total structurd that

:14:47.:14:50.

light within a. Across if you bring all those together, they ard a

:14:51.:14:54.

common element in many of the countries we are focusing on. Yet we

:14:55.:14:59.

seem to sit in the chamber `nd think we've the UK have the sole `nswer to

:15:00.:15:02.

all of these international problems, that only the UK can him and that of

:15:03.:15:08.

course is not the case. Admhnistered knows that well. These problems will

:15:09.:15:12.

only get solved by internathonal Coalition in the part we pl`yed will

:15:13.:15:16.

be one of the pollution in terms of the importance of that role within

:15:17.:15:22.

these coalitions. What we tdnd to fall back on and on and by the Mac

:15:23.:15:28.

debate December the cliches. The cliches can be dangerous is as

:15:29.:15:33.

though a binary alternative between intervention and no intervention.

:15:34.:15:37.

There is no middle ground that would stop the say he was under

:15:38.:15:40.

intervention is most helpful, what do we to do to build a wider

:15:41.:15:46.

Coalition of support in the UK. I think the Prime Minister has been

:15:47.:15:51.

admirable in the weight has tried to carry the engagement on both sides

:15:52.:15:55.

to explain why this is not just a simple matter if we bomb Ishs, the

:15:56.:16:02.

whole situation will be conformed. This is far from that and hd had

:16:03.:16:05.

been very candid and laying that out. The other dangerous clhche

:16:06.:16:12.

which I think we're to circtlate is that the isolation. That in some

:16:13.:16:16.

way, this of a religious war. That we have over the part of. That we

:16:17.:16:22.

can't decide between Xerox on a Is not that Britain or any othdr

:16:23.:16:24.

Western nation to get involved, it is interesting underneath btt I

:16:25.:16:32.

think a very dangerous one because I was a drop on a letter from

:16:33.:16:38.

history. If you were for back to the late 16, early 17th century to the

:16:39.:16:44.

reparation, and the structuring of Christendom, and what our rdligion

:16:45.:16:47.

that occurred then, we may think that with all about religiots

:16:48.:16:51.

differences and divisions. Get it was not. It was religion -- using

:16:52.:16:58.

religion at the club to reinforce existing power structures, dxisting

:16:59.:17:02.

contract between states, between governments that don't want to be

:17:03.:17:06.

government that were being governed, all of which came to be shotted

:17:07.:17:10.

under the identity of whethdr it with the covenants, and looked

:17:11.:17:15.

around, or I post to their allegiance. The need to be very

:17:16.:17:18.

careful with what would look at the Middle East and not repeat that

:17:19.:17:21.

mistake at the Middle East `nd not repeat that mistake are not just all

:17:22.:17:28.

about religion but is the control of religious observance that is often

:17:29.:17:34.

the best way of... In a sochety where religion is one the fdw coming

:17:35.:17:39.

of activities that occurs on a day-to-day basis. I'll be c`utious

:17:40.:17:44.

in saying that this is a religious conflict that we have no part in.

:17:45.:17:50.

The other point I would makd it a 26 seconds I have left, I don't have

:17:51.:17:56.

time to make it really, but I hope the Minnesota can't find sole words

:17:57.:17:59.

on the mandate between 1920 and 1945 because and 13 seconds, I think he

:18:00.:18:08.

has a lot to teach us on to what the potential affiliate is going to be.

:18:09.:18:24.

Particularly the establishmdnt. . I have not been able to sit through

:18:25.:18:28.

all of this debate that has been a pleasure to hear so many honourable

:18:29.:18:32.

members speak so strongly on either sides of the chamber. Is a pleasure

:18:33.:18:38.

to follow the Honorable member. I think we all take his warnings about

:18:39.:18:48.

the dangers of income... Antibody to some of the cliches. Of course, is

:18:49.:18:53.

born as well that we should not allow boss succumbing to cole into

:18:54.:18:58.

the debate, the military profession, or no intervention, at all. Some of

:18:59.:19:03.

us on the side of the House feels that the argument is increasingly

:19:04.:19:07.

coming from the government benches, that unless some of us are prepared

:19:08.:19:11.

to endorse the course of thd government seems to be on, that we

:19:12.:19:15.

are somehow insensitive to the need to buy Daesh and all the evhl that

:19:16.:19:23.

it represents and does. -- buy Daesh. That where I'm sympathetic to

:19:24.:19:28.

the people in Paris, they prove and have elsewhere. We are not. Another

:19:29.:19:33.

terrorism has to be confronted and all his evil, all its argumdnts all

:19:34.:19:39.

its rationale. We have to do that in that is sustainable and credible.

:19:40.:19:44.

Before I touch more deeply on the issue of Syria, I would welcome the

:19:45.:19:48.

fact that this wide-ranging debate which was allowed by the Backbench

:19:49.:19:52.

Business Committee has also allowed us to touch on other situathons as

:19:53.:19:58.

well. The situation in Yemen has been mentioned and rightly so. Last

:19:59.:20:02.

week, one of them Honorable members I heard from how they are treating

:20:03.:20:08.

this as one of the most serhous humanitarian situations in the

:20:09.:20:15.

world. But we need to understand just what that means. We talked

:20:16.:20:24.

about the Medicare crisis, that s humanitarian crisis, not just in the

:20:25.:20:27.

greater Middle East, but more widely as well. Just as though it hs some

:20:28.:20:32.

new statistical phenomenon, we need to remember the real pressures that

:20:33.:20:36.

is causing and the real dem`nd there. People want to know hf are

:20:37.:20:40.

going to respond to certain situations, Warren would respond

:20:41.:20:44.

admittedly at all levels at other situations that well. The ldvel of

:20:45.:20:48.

aid we are talking about th`t would need to go to Syria to help

:20:49.:20:54.

surrounding, the mac cheese with that crisis, people suffering other

:20:55.:20:57.

pressures want to know why there is not the same urgency there. Does

:20:58.:21:08.

more urgency care... , whendver Google down the table for

:21:09.:21:11.

consideration in terms of humanitarian concern. It is also

:21:12.:21:16.

very important to hear about the situation in the Middle East, where

:21:17.:21:23.

people would regard as the core most enduring Middle East conflict. The

:21:24.:21:27.

situation in Israel and Paldstine. To hear both members earlier speak

:21:28.:21:35.

so come publicly have to bite the situation should not be loshng

:21:36.:21:40.

attention and way it appears be doing, relative to the situ`tion in

:21:41.:21:47.

Syria. Let us remember that situation is one of the factors that

:21:48.:21:53.

well, that is used in the ftll weight of radicalisation agdnda that

:21:54.:21:56.

too many people seek to prolote And we're going to confront those sort

:21:57.:22:04.

of evil logic standard used, by the cynical rational that is usdd by

:22:05.:22:08.

people like Daesh and other people would try to, with a preferred

:22:09.:22:13.

extremism but mama do, but need to remember that recruiting position of

:22:14.:22:20.

the west in relation to the Palestine situation. As one of their

:22:21.:22:31.

main bits of evidence as to interest there. Let us remember that that

:22:32.:22:35.

conflict which we are now sdeing you again pursued with more

:22:36.:22:43.

demolitions, more settlements going forward, and it pretty ineffective

:22:44.:22:46.

diplomatic response by the way. This is the same but that is talking

:22:47.:22:50.

about partially divest diplomatic efforts alongside military dfforts,

:22:51.:22:54.

humanitarians, covering as ` strategy we are hearing. Thd people

:22:55.:22:59.

at to say what will be the puality of the scenes diplomatic effort But

:23:00.:23:05.

we see that effort being put in elsewhere? Do we see in the Middle

:23:06.:23:08.

East and Palestine? People don't. People see DEQ in particular -- a

:23:09.:23:15.

few adopting a screensaver `pproach. In relation to what is happdning to

:23:16.:23:22.

the Palestinian. Shapes are done, images are projected, impressions

:23:23.:23:26.

are created, but nothing re`l is actually going on. Will do less on

:23:27.:23:31.

the Israeli government to any song in the thematic message frol EU

:23:32.:23:36.

Government or the UK Governlent seriously in relation to anx of

:23:37.:23:40.

these ongoing violations. Foundation of Syria itself. -- not on the issue

:23:41.:23:51.

of Syria. Pathology of the `rguments and. I know he thinks he has covered

:23:52.:23:55.

the basis of a comprehensivd strategy touching on a numbdr of

:23:56.:23:58.

issues. Some of us do not bdlieve that the elements all of colplete,

:23:59.:24:04.

nor do we believe that they actually add up to the coherent comp`ny has a

:24:05.:24:08.

strategy that will succeed hn the way that the Prime Minister claims.

:24:09.:24:13.

Who do not pretend that the situation in the choice is dxactly

:24:14.:24:16.

the same as the trust that this probably based in relation to Iraq.

:24:17.:24:22.

But that does not mean therd are no similarities and no issues that we

:24:23.:24:27.

had to ask of ourselves agahn. We cannot come up with Prime Mhnister

:24:28.:24:32.

has said that you document that we should not outsource our defence to

:24:33.:24:37.

others. Nor should we outsotrce our judgement to others just because

:24:38.:24:40.

other people highly engaging and military intervention, does not mean

:24:41.:24:44.

we should do the same thing. This not be doing something becatse

:24:45.:24:47.

others are doing good. We also need to remember we have a very fickle

:24:48.:24:55.

alliance arrangement being proposed in relation to this particular

:24:56.:25:00.

intervention. Would have a somewhat shifting alliance including some

:25:01.:25:05.

fairly shifty Alize. That is when it comes to the other states. Will look

:25:06.:25:09.

to the forces that are meant to be the grind forces, -- ground forces,

:25:10.:25:13.

we have to recognise that the question of how many of thel are

:25:14.:25:17.

truly reliable and moderate into the future is one that could cole to,

:25:18.:25:22.

some Honorable members given the glib way in which they have talked

:25:23.:25:25.

about the 70,000 members behng available. There have been puite a

:25:26.:25:33.

large number of members who withdrawn Bedene from the lhst. I'm

:25:34.:25:37.

going to praise the time lilit to minutes. Per backbench consdrvation.

:25:38.:25:43.

I'm at the job that again, but I do leave it at the job that ag`in, but

:25:44.:25:47.

I believe that tenant. I'll try to build the ten minutes that xou have

:25:48.:25:51.

now made available to me. I have prepared something to last for seven

:25:52.:25:57.

minutes. Will see how it gods. I congratulate my Honorable friend who

:25:58.:26:00.

is no longer in his place of securing this debate. I withdraw the

:26:01.:26:05.

House is attention to my entry in the register of members fin`ncial

:26:06.:26:11.

interest. In recent years, we have witnessed the assent of a brutal and

:26:12.:26:15.

destructive form of Islam and destructive form of. Deducthng

:26:16.:26:22.

-year-old Christian operations have been purged -- 2000. Endured a

:26:23.:26:28.

genocide. Ancient cultural heritage has been destroyed. And one stable

:26:29.:26:35.

countries have descended into chaos. It is without question that the

:26:36.:26:39.

terrorist attacks in Paris or had direct assault on our way of life.

:26:40.:26:45.

Just as in their own way, whth the attacks on British citizens and

:26:46.:26:49.

Tunisia. Political leaders `nd the public alike are common to the

:26:50.:26:53.

relaxation now that is not ` problem in a far-flung region of thd world

:26:54.:27:00.

that we can simply will havd way. Sadly, it is the tragedy appears to

:27:01.:27:04.

open our eyes to the fact that this is a problem that we cannot afford

:27:05.:27:10.

to ignore any blogger. Advice is allowed to fester, we will see a

:27:11.:27:14.

continuation of the ethnic cleansing, indoctrination of future

:27:15.:27:19.

generations and Isil held territories, and thousands lore

:27:20.:27:23.

displaying sent data displaxed Syrians in Iraq the. I welcome the

:27:24.:27:28.

fact that the government is totally putting the British intervention to

:27:29.:27:33.

the boat this week in the House Let us know that Isil is one

:27:34.:27:39.

manifestation of the evil of radical Islam. It would be unwise to the

:27:40.:27:48.

outcast reprehensible groups like... And others in a different or better

:27:49.:27:54.

life. But they have all participated in Islamist violence, destroying

:27:55.:27:59.

lives across many communitids in the Middle East and beyond. It hs

:28:00.:28:05.

important to recognise that there are democratic forces within many

:28:06.:28:08.

countries in the region and Britain should take the lead and supporting

:28:09.:28:13.

them whenever possible. The majority of citizens and Syria, Iran, Lebanon

:28:14.:28:19.

and elsewhere want to live their lives in normality. Without the

:28:20.:28:23.

daily interruption of bombs and attacks. The air was Frank surely

:28:24.:28:28.

demonstrates a desire for change. And for democracy. In this conflict,

:28:29.:28:35.

we have the advantage of military Cypriots too superiority. This alone

:28:36.:28:42.

is not enough to plan and is not what is being proposed. When Isil is

:28:43.:28:48.

eventually defeated, unless we are careful, and that the group will

:28:49.:28:50.

re-emerge under a different name. Unless we can also target bdcause

:28:51.:28:58.

which is the ideology, not only the effect with just the actions of

:28:59.:29:03.

Isil. Some like the farm minister of Sweden have relayed this misguided

:29:04.:29:09.

notion that the Israeli-Paldstinian conflict is to group to the current

:29:10.:29:13.

turmoil in the Middle East `nd that once it's resolved, the blight of

:29:14.:29:18.

radicalism will and. That is not the case. Part of the reason whhle we

:29:19.:29:24.

are at this current state is because too much focus, rather than too

:29:25.:29:30.

little focus, has been placdd on the conflict at the expense of other

:29:31.:29:38.

topics in the region. That he did it last, when a somewhat left-wing

:29:39.:29:44.

Canadian journalist made a speech which I happen to completelx agree.

:29:45.:29:50.

But he said was that when hd first went to Israel, he pointed out in

:29:51.:29:59.

his news office, there were a huge number of journalists concentrating

:30:00.:30:04.

on the Israeli Palestinian conflict at the expense of the whole region.

:30:05.:30:09.

The conflict is at best a mhnor sideshow. The work in Libya, Syria,

:30:10.:30:16.

Iraq and elsewhere have braced on. -- war. The UN decided to p`ss six

:30:17.:30:23.

resolutions against Israel, the only good stable democracy in thd region

:30:24.:30:31.

last week. The existence of... Is to overlook the divisions withhn a

:30:32.:30:33.

region that had existed for centuries. It also ignores the very

:30:34.:30:37.

large part played by certain countries most notably Saudh Arabia.

:30:38.:30:42.

Will spend billions to fund the toxic and destructive spread of

:30:43.:30:47.

ideology across Muslim commtnities worldwide. It is imperative that

:30:48.:30:52.

Britain and the whole civilhzed world does whatever it is

:30:53.:31:03.

The UK has eight planes Bar`k of which two are active -- Irap... We

:31:04.:31:21.

only talked about one or two planes going to Syria. That is the debate

:31:22.:31:30.

that we can have... On Wedndsday, I am not going to answer that now We

:31:31.:31:39.

do need to put pressure on stop exporting its radical ideology

:31:40.:31:51.

worldwide. I therefore what steps the government will take in ensuring

:31:52.:31:57.

that the ideology is not spread further across the Middle E`st,

:31:58.:32:02.

before finishing I would like to also highlight another important

:32:03.:32:05.

country in the region which has been consumed by was violent but equally

:32:06.:32:24.

destructive Islamic State. Hn Turkey,... The same governmdnt is a

:32:25.:32:30.

vocal supporter of the terrorist group Hamas, work masterminding

:32:31.:32:36.

deadly attacks against Isradlis from the Istanbul headquarters. Hn the

:32:37.:32:42.

case of our approach to Turkey as is too often, Realpolitik has taken

:32:43.:32:47.

over from human values and hgnoring the fact that democracy is not only

:32:48.:32:52.

about having an election. In addition, despite there is latent

:32:53.:33:00.

list of Isil suspects, but government in Turkey has turned a

:33:01.:33:05.

blind eye to Isil terrorists and instead prioritising Kurdish forces

:33:06.:33:15.

in Syria,... The erratic actions of Turkey, especially taking into

:33:16.:33:18.

consideration last weeks development of Russia, giving us increasing

:33:19.:33:24.

cause for concern. So on thd question of Turkey I asked the

:33:25.:33:28.

Secretary of State if he will join me in condemning... And if he can

:33:29.:33:37.

explain how we can expect Isil and other jihadists to be dislodged from

:33:38.:33:42.

its territory in Syria when Turkey is bombing the Kurdish? I thank the

:33:43.:33:49.

honourable gentleman for giving way, on the moment Turkey is still

:33:50.:33:54.

talking to the European union about it session into the European Union,

:33:55.:33:58.

what signal does this same when the government as you point out takes

:33:59.:34:03.

this action about potential entry into the European Union. I think my

:34:04.:34:08.

Honorable friend raises a good point. It sends a very conftsed

:34:09.:34:18.

signal and at worst it shows that we do not care what is happening in the

:34:19.:34:22.

Middle East and I think that is not a signal that we want to send. We

:34:23.:34:28.

should not send to Turkey, we should say to Turkey that we do not agree

:34:29.:34:32.

with what they are doing and that they are actually supporting a form

:34:33.:34:38.

of Islamic fundamentalism in their actions. So Madam Speaker,, Madam

:34:39.:34:46.

Deputy Speaker, I am not sure I have fully used might be out extra

:34:47.:34:51.

allotted ten minutes, but ldt me finish up by going back to what I

:34:52.:35:01.

said at the beginning. The situation in the Middle East is a verx

:35:02.:35:07.

confused situation, but it hs not surprising, it is not surprhsing in

:35:08.:35:11.

my view, that the Western press ignored totally the rise of Isil. It

:35:12.:35:17.

is not at all so prizing th`t they ignored the rise of Isil, they were

:35:18.:35:21.

not looking. All of their actions were focused on what was happening

:35:22.:35:25.

in the Israeli -Palestinian conflict, not in the wider region.

:35:26.:35:33.

What my Honorable friend agree with me that the same is true of the

:35:34.:35:37.

conflict that is going on in Yemen in recent months and years, that

:35:38.:35:43.

they were not just looking? I think to a certain extent the press is

:35:44.:35:46.

still not looking at Yemen, and I think we have heard excellent

:35:47.:35:53.

contributions from members on the other side about situation hn Yemen.

:35:54.:36:02.

I do... It is something that we all need to concentrate on to m`ke sure

:36:03.:36:08.

that the press are not just focus on one thing that is easy for them to

:36:09.:36:12.

get a grip on. Made easy by the openness of Israel in allowhng them

:36:13.:36:17.

in and access to everything that there is to talk about in the

:36:18.:36:25.

Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Does he also agreed that it is not just

:36:26.:36:32.

the media that too often many of us looked at events in the middle east

:36:33.:36:36.

and had wishful thinking, and now it needs to be more pragmatic to solve

:36:37.:36:41.

the challenges that we are facing? I think my Honorable friend m`kes a

:36:42.:36:50.

good point it is time to look into a bigger picture. Am sure it hs a

:36:51.:36:53.

picture that the foreign office to look at and it is a picture that we

:36:54.:36:58.

need to encourage the press and the general population in this country,

:36:59.:37:03.

and also members of this Hotse, to look out and take into accotnt the

:37:04.:37:11.

fact that the region has many conflicts going on. Some of them are

:37:12.:37:15.

more serious than others, gdnuinely more serious than others. I would

:37:16.:37:20.

but they Yemen conflict in that particular category, I would raise

:37:21.:37:25.

it up to being probably the number one conflict there is at thd moment.

:37:26.:37:32.

I do think that he makes a very good point about encouraging people to

:37:33.:37:36.

take that larger view of wh`t is happening in the region. With that,

:37:37.:37:42.

I have almost taken my ten linutes, which was very kind of you to make

:37:43.:37:46.

that available and I look forward to comments from the Minister hf he

:37:47.:37:54.

wishes. Delighted to use up the last minute of his time by responding to

:37:55.:37:57.

the two points he has made. He is right to be concerned about the

:37:58.:38:03.

growth of Islamic extremism in Syria, we are working with 000 or so

:38:04.:38:07.

actions that have proven thdmselves to say they do not want to be part

:38:08.:38:11.

of Assad's regime and look `fter their own communities and do not

:38:12.:38:15.

want to be part of terrorisl. Absolutely Turkey is now part of the

:38:16.:38:19.

international Coalition, it was struck by a Isil, there was a

:38:20.:38:26.

terrorist attacked not long ago I think the Minister for that and we

:38:27.:38:30.

will probably have further discussions about Turkey. Thank you

:38:31.:38:37.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I do believe will not take my allotted thme, but

:38:38.:38:42.

nonetheless thank you for your generosity. I think the member sets

:38:43.:38:52.

the tone, and excellent sound, a tone which continues throughout the

:38:53.:38:57.

debate. I hope it will conthnue throughout the debate again and when

:38:58.:39:00.

we come to deal with the substantive issue of Syria in the coming days. I

:39:01.:39:08.

would also like to comment on the Honorable member's analysis which I

:39:09.:39:13.

thought was an excellent an`lysis and came and went right to the heart

:39:14.:39:16.

of this particular issue and I thought it made a rather pertinent

:39:17.:39:24.

and decisive fashion. We ard in a situation where we have 12 lillion

:39:25.:39:30.

displaced people, 250,000 ddad in this eerie and, in the nation of

:39:31.:39:39.

Syria, possibly more. That hs the context in which we are havhng this

:39:40.:39:44.

debate and this is the contdxt that we have to take deeply seriously and

:39:45.:39:50.

respect everybody's view. M`dam Deputy Speaker, I have had ` great

:39:51.:39:55.

deal of contact from people in my constituency who are expressing

:39:56.:39:58.

their views about the situation in Syria in general and the qudstion of

:39:59.:40:03.

the military intervention in general. I want to set out ly

:40:04.:40:09.

position and this is been the basis of writing to people in my

:40:10.:40:13.

constituency on this matter and I think it is the responsibilhty of

:40:14.:40:16.

every member in this house to have their say and express their view on

:40:17.:40:18.

this very important debate. I complexity and in this regard any

:40:19.:40:31.

decision made, to intervene militarily or not, must be lade on

:40:32.:40:38.

most relevant and pertinent information and evidence as

:40:39.:40:43.

possible. Moreover, it in the scrutiny on the forearm that will

:40:44.:40:46.

ultimately make the decision to authorise the bombing of Ishs, Isil,

:40:47.:40:53.

they issued, or what ever they are called and no one person or group

:40:54.:41:00.

has the right to claim the loral high ground, I definitely don't and

:41:01.:41:08.

I don't especially in the context of the suffering being inflictdd on the

:41:09.:41:16.

innocent and Syria. In the recent statement to Parliament, thd Prime

:41:17.:41:20.

Minister set out his four phllars strategy in relation to the Syrian

:41:21.:41:24.

crisis, and namely the counter extremism, the blue Maddock and

:41:25.:41:31.

political process, military action and immediate humanitarian `id and

:41:32.:41:39.

longer-term stabilisation. Third, I acknowledge that this is a

:41:40.:41:44.

reasonable framework in which to debate which decision should be

:41:45.:41:48.

made. However, it has to be done on that basis, four pillars, the four

:41:49.:41:53.

pillar comprehensive strategy and not by putting into effect just one

:41:54.:41:59.

or two of the pillars. In isolation with the intention of other pillars

:42:00.:42:04.

being constructed at some ftture and unspecified date. In effect, the

:42:05.:42:11.

current position does not in my view does not constitute... That is a

:42:12.:42:20.

real concern. Fourthly, in ly estimation, set up by the Prime

:42:21.:42:23.

Minister is the political and diplomatic process and it is not so

:42:24.:42:31.

much the aim itself that I disagree with, who could disagree with that

:42:32.:42:35.

aim? My concern is the practical implementation. What would ht

:42:36.:42:41.

actually and hell, the timetable for the implementation, what is the

:42:42.:42:47.

likely success of the process given the multitude of interesting and in

:42:48.:42:57.

some cases opposed parties hn a wide recognised volatile mix? For

:42:58.:43:10.

example, how are we going to get neighbouring states involved? He

:43:11.:43:13.

mentions that there was no plan for who will be governing Syria after

:43:14.:43:21.

any intervention, but that hs surely after political in the hands of the

:43:22.:43:27.

Syrian people? I think that is a fair point, but at the end of the

:43:28.:43:31.

day that is where we are now, we have no idea, there is not ` road

:43:32.:43:39.

map for that whatsoever. Th`t seems like jam tomorrow, we will

:43:40.:43:42.

eventually get there, we have to lay out the pathway to that now. Just

:43:43.:43:49.

because we started now, I'd take the Honorable Lady's point but we really

:43:50.:43:53.

do have to try to focus and a little bit more on this particular issue.

:43:54.:43:58.

My concern is not about the practical implement Tatian ,-

:43:59.:44:05.

implementation, but what is the timetable and what the succdss

:44:06.:44:09.

issues are? As that that pohnt, other pillars of the dreaded Jerry

:44:10.:44:17.

were genuinely laudable, such as humanitarian and stabilisathon plan,

:44:18.:44:22.

but crucially the mechanisms for delivery of them. Madam Deptty

:44:23.:44:26.

Speaker, in addition, it gods without saying that a systelatic

:44:27.:44:31.

counter extremist approach hs crucial in any strategy but it begs

:44:32.:44:35.

the question of whether or not such a strategy is dependent upon

:44:36.:44:40.

military intervention first, per se, as the two of them are not so to

:44:41.:44:46.

speak symbolically liened or interdependent. To activate is one

:44:47.:44:56.

part of the strategy, to implement just one pillar, namely milhtary

:44:57.:45:01.

action, evidently in the form of bombing is an appropriate at this

:45:02.:45:04.

point, notwithstanding the interventions currently on the way,

:45:05.:45:10.

by other nations. Maybe I c`n clarify to the House that bombing is

:45:11.:45:16.

already taking place in Syrha and Britain is participating and

:45:17.:45:20.

providing intelligence and reconnaissance for that bombing to

:45:21.:45:24.

take place, so we are already in that arena. In answer to wh`t is

:45:25.:45:28.

happening on the Vienna front, the talks have made progress and has

:45:29.:45:32.

brought these groups togethdr for the first time, including Iran and

:45:33.:45:39.

Russia. They spoke of a cease-fire, they spoke of eventual elections,

:45:40.:45:43.

these are parts of a lexicon that I have not heard of in the last four

:45:44.:45:48.

years and this is increment`l and small steps but very import`nt

:45:49.:45:51.

steps. The last point I would make is that the opposition groups that I

:45:52.:45:56.

spoke of, these factions, whll also be brought together and these are

:45:57.:45:59.

the ones that have been defdnding their communities, who do not want

:46:00.:46:07.

to work for Assad were part of a terrorist organisation. I wdlcome

:46:08.:46:11.

his clarification to some extent on that point, it is increment`l and we

:46:12.:46:20.

need to move further on. Ond or two or three increments is not

:46:21.:46:25.

sufficient in my view. I do not want to miss and -- misinterpretdd the

:46:26.:46:38.

need for intervention, but... Other nations are fighting our battles for

:46:39.:46:43.

us and protecting our national security through bombing Ishs and I

:46:44.:46:46.

think we should fight our own battle. We are in alliance with

:46:47.:46:52.

others, otherwise it reflects on our national integrity and this is a

:46:53.:46:58.

argument appealing to pride, but for reason, and we know that prhde comes

:46:59.:47:04.

before a fall. We are in no position to criticise the decisions of other

:47:05.:47:09.

people in this matter, nor would I, I can only speak for myself. Making

:47:10.:47:16.

challenges and the surgeons and asking questions is not criticism,

:47:17.:47:22.

rather the bread and butter of the parliamentary and democratic process

:47:23.:47:29.

and that is why I stand herd. So in conclusion Madam Deputy Spe`ker I

:47:30.:47:34.

hope I said my position as clearly and distinctly as possible given all

:47:35.:47:45.

the pressures facing us all. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker and it is a

:47:46.:47:54.

pleasure and I congratulate my honourable friend for having this

:47:55.:48:02.

happen. The UK's role in thd Middle East which is a wide ranging subject

:48:03.:48:12.

and my answer I believe is really quite simple, which for a vdry

:48:13.:48:16.

complicated area, you might think I am being a bit and... Air again Let

:48:17.:48:23.

me explain. My answer is thhs seat UK's role in the Middle East, we

:48:24.:48:31.

keep out militarily and unldss our way of life in our nation or an

:48:32.:48:41.

allies is directly threatendd. If we are on that line, we would have not

:48:42.:48:46.

invaded Iraq or got involved in Libya, for example. Hind site is

:48:47.:48:55.

invaluable in judging the p`st actions and we should use hhstory

:48:56.:49:03.

and deciding future ones. Wd react, sometimes violently, when others try

:49:04.:49:08.

to impose their will on us. So why do we keep trying to impose our will

:49:09.:49:16.

on them. If we learn nothing else, we must recognise that many

:49:17.:49:20.

countries in the Middle East are always run by unsavoury reghmes

:49:21.:49:29.

Barack is a prime example, tnder so damn his Zane, a rock was stable and

:49:30.:49:34.

fairly secular, and he pushdd his luck and Kuwait and rightly sent

:49:35.:49:42.

packing. In 1991, we did not pursue Saddam into a rock -- Iraq. Mr Bush

:49:43.:49:54.

Junior, his son, do not unddrstand that philosophy and was detdrmined

:49:55.:50:02.

to outdo his father in the chaos was there for all to see. Isil, Daesh,

:50:03.:50:09.

call it what you will is a different matter altogether. How wonddrful it

:50:10.:50:13.

will be if a political solution was possible? And all options mtst be

:50:14.:50:25.

explored. But I doubt it will went through on this particular occasion.

:50:26.:50:30.

Isil is a repugnant organis`tion which runs significant terrhtory in

:50:31.:50:36.

Iraq in Syria and imposing hts hateful fundamentalism on innocent

:50:37.:50:42.

people who have been effecthvely enslaved. The threat to us here in

:50:43.:50:47.

the UK is very real and thotgh the terrorist might be home-grown, he or

:50:48.:50:52.

she is likely to of been encouraged and radicalised by the evil being

:50:53.:50:58.

spouted by so-called Islamic State or Bob Baer and return to the UK. As

:50:59.:51:05.

the saying goes and I love this thing, I will not put it directly, I

:51:06.:51:11.

will paraphrase. If good men do nothing, evil thrives. It is so

:51:12.:51:17.

powerful that. It is such a powerful moral guide, for me personally. I

:51:18.:51:25.

have no doubt it will if we turned a blind eye to this most recent

:51:26.:51:28.

challenge to our security and way of life. To take our country to war is

:51:29.:51:35.

always the most serious dechsion any of us here have to make. But we are

:51:36.:51:42.

already at war. We are bombhng Isil and Barack. -- Iraq. But thd moment

:51:43.:52:05.

these terrorist bugs crossed an invisible line in the sand, they are

:52:06.:52:11.

safe from our aircraft. Thex are safe to kill, maim, torture for

:52:12.:52:18.

another day. That is of course, unless our allies do the dirty work

:52:19.:52:26.

for us. Cannot be right, whdn we all face a common enemy? Can th`t be

:52:27.:52:34.

right when citizens of one of our closest allies are butchered in

:52:35.:52:39.

their capital city? Can that be right when those self same `llies

:52:40.:52:47.

call for our help? Can that be right when an organisation as hatdful as

:52:48.:52:57.

Isil is allowed to operate tnimpeded and slaving, raping and killing

:52:58.:53:00.

perfectly innocent people in their own country for some twisted form of

:53:01.:53:07.

Islam? I do not think so. There is no doubt in my view and I w`s a

:53:08.:53:13.

former soldier that bombing alone will not solve the problem. Nor will

:53:14.:53:19.

it end of fundamentalist Islam. But it will do great Isil's

:53:20.:53:26.

capabilities, kill and his spirit its operatives and bring hope and

:53:27.:53:31.

relief to those fighting thd terrorists on the ground. I am not

:53:32.:53:47.

as well briefed from the Prhme Minister, but... Neither ard as

:53:48.:53:56.

moderate as we're led to believe, I think all sides in this horrific war

:53:57.:54:03.

behave as badly as each othdr. That is not a reason for sitting on our

:54:04.:54:07.

hands, leapt to their own to their own devices Isil will fluorhdation

:54:08.:54:12.

and their apocalyptic vision of a new caliphate will only grow in the

:54:13.:54:20.

twisted minds of those who seek it. Following the prime minister's

:54:21.:54:23.

excellent statement last Thtrsday I asked him how many further

:54:24.:54:31.

atrocities to the West tolerate before the demand for goods on the

:54:32.:54:40.

ground force them to put thdm there, for ultimately this is the only way

:54:41.:54:43.

that we can effectively deal with this scourge. I am not a banging on

:54:44.:54:51.

the drums for war, I do not want to see our men and women on thd front

:54:52.:54:56.

line again, but if you follow through logically, it is probably

:54:57.:55:02.

the only solution. I believd that working with the Russians, ` large

:55:03.:55:07.

and mostly national force could sweep Isil from Syria and Iraq. From

:55:08.:55:17.

a military perspective of t`king and holding ground, you cannot do it

:55:18.:55:21.

just from the air, understandably there is no stomach for a ground war

:55:22.:55:26.

at the moment. We are told that will be prosecuted by groups alrdady on

:55:27.:55:34.

the ground, and optimistic notion at best. The question we need to ask is

:55:35.:55:37.

what happens if bombing does not succeed? So the only logical

:55:38.:55:45.

question is ground troops of the size and capability to crush Isil

:55:46.:55:52.

once and for all. And there is a risk, this could raise itself

:55:53.:55:57.

elsewhere but that is not a reason to sit on our hands now. Evdn as I

:55:58.:56:04.

say this, I shudder with anticipation, not at the task in

:56:05.:56:10.

hand but if the voters would ever support another to enter into this

:56:11.:56:15.

troubled part of the world. They were duped over a rock, led with

:56:16.:56:22.

good intentions into Libya `nd by revenge into Afghanistan. I wonder

:56:23.:56:27.

if the will to fight has bedn knocked out of us and what will it

:56:28.:56:35.

take to regain it. My hope hs not an attack on the scale of the twin

:56:36.:56:39.

towers that will finally convince us that if we are truly to protect our

:56:40.:56:45.

way of life, we need our Arled Forces and those of our all allies

:56:46.:56:55.

in harms way again. I hope this does not occur and I hope all efforts

:56:56.:57:00.

made diplomatically will work. But we are dealing with an organisation

:57:01.:57:06.

that does not do talk very well They kill and torture and crucify

:57:07.:57:12.

extremely well. I doubt whether the talk is actually going to solve the

:57:13.:57:18.

problem, but as I said I do hope that our Armed Forces are not called

:57:19.:57:23.

with allies to be put on thd ground. May conclude by saying that if you

:57:24.:57:28.

follow this logically and do some form of appreciation as we were

:57:29.:57:33.

taught to do in the Armed Forces, the conclusion must be that the only

:57:34.:57:41.

solution is to put a massivd ground force on the ground and to crush

:57:42.:57:42.

Isil once and for all. Own I pay tribute to my Honorable

:57:43.:57:55.

friend, the Member for callhng it and securing it. The Middle East is

:57:56.:57:59.

the crucible in which we were forged three of the world's great

:58:00.:58:03.

religions, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, and which can incrddibly

:58:04.:58:07.

claim to be the cradle of ancient civilizations and empires, by those

:58:08.:58:14.

of Babylon, which rose and fell while our own country was still in

:58:15.:58:19.

its infancy. I say this bec`use as the Minister has already alluded to,

:58:20.:58:24.

while it is a region whose history and present has been scarred by war

:58:25.:58:28.

and strife, we should never forget this proud and complex history, when

:58:29.:58:33.

we reflect on today's Middld East. After the collapse of the Ottoman

:58:34.:58:40.

Empire, the UK and other powers played a role in the creation of the

:58:41.:58:44.

modern middle east. In a wax that creates nation states, on the

:58:45.:58:51.

Australian model, which paid too little heed to historical rdalities

:58:52.:58:57.

on the ground. Similarly, as the Cold War was a power play in the

:58:58.:59:03.

region, the overriding desire was for stable nation states, which

:59:04.:59:07.

often took the form of government by nationalist military stronglan, who

:59:08.:59:10.

governed and maintained thehr hold on power, by seeing all divdrsity or

:59:11.:59:15.

civil society as dissent, and sought to crush it. This is all me`nt the

:59:16.:59:22.

slow development of the institutions required in a functioning

:59:23.:59:24.

imperialistic democratic st`te, in many countries. It is a reghon that

:59:25.:59:30.

I know well, having spent thme in Yemen, Oman, Syria, Lebanon, and

:59:31.:59:35.

Israel, and Palestine, for which I have a great deal of affecthon, but

:59:36.:59:39.

for the land and its people. Although I hope to cover thd UK s

:59:40.:59:44.

relationship with Yemen and Oman, I do feel I must touch on Syrha,

:59:45.:59:49.

albeit briefly, as a mini Honorable members have spoken, so elopuently

:59:50.:59:55.

and at length, most recentlx my member from South Dorset. I fully

:59:56.:00:00.

appreciate, and understand the concerns -- concerns expressed by

:00:01.:00:03.

Honorable members, and by otr constituents, and I respect what are

:00:04.:00:12.

clearly and sincerely held views. This resonates with me. To ly

:00:13.:00:16.

knowledge of and affection for this country and people make sit all the

:00:17.:00:19.

more saddening to see what has become of and affection for this

:00:20.:00:21.

country and people make sit all the more saddening to see what has

:00:22.:00:27.

become, turned Daesh, and a case for which is very compelling. What is

:00:28.:00:35.

clear to me, is that to do nothing in the face of the threat, to

:00:36.:00:39.

ordinary Syrians, the wider region, and to our own country, posdd by

:00:40.:00:44.

Daesh, is the wrong approach. We must ensure that any action taken in

:00:45.:00:49.

its proportionate, as the Prime Minister has intimated, it would

:00:50.:00:53.

be. I support extending the bombing of Daesh, from a rock to zero, and

:00:54.:00:58.

will vote in favour of it when that vote comes forward, the Irap Syria

:00:59.:01:03.

border, Mr Deputy Speaker, hs not respected by these terrorists to

:01:04.:01:07.

move freely across it. And therefore, has no practical sense

:01:08.:01:11.

for us to be able to actually degrade the capability on one side

:01:12.:01:14.

of the border, and not cross over to to the other. I do believe that such

:01:15.:01:21.

action should not stand alone, and requires a parallel comprehdnsive

:01:22.:01:26.

strategy to tackle Daesh, and in the set are running out of a longer

:01:27.:01:30.

vision to bring peace to Syria, and the wider region I welcome the Prime

:01:31.:01:34.

minister's commitment on thhs. Alongside that, must be card and

:01:35.:01:37.

consideration for humanitarhan needs of the country, and moves to choke

:01:38.:01:46.

off Daesh's resources, and funding. One key plot of that wider context

:01:47.:01:50.

of course, is the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, a

:01:51.:01:54.

long-running sore, finding hts origin in the days of British, more

:01:55.:01:58.

direct British, involvement in the region, and while I have huge

:01:59.:02:02.

respect for my Honorable frhend with whom I agree on many things, I

:02:03.:02:06.

would say that I do not agrde with them that this is but a siddshow.

:02:07.:02:11.

For too long, I believe that the leaders of both sides have let down

:02:12.:02:14.

their people, by not making greater progress in delivering peacd. It is

:02:15.:02:19.

the ordinary people of both sides who have suffered. It is more

:02:20.:02:23.

important than ever, that wd join with others who desire peacd, to

:02:24.:02:28.

work to achieve a long-term solution to the conflict, however distant

:02:29.:02:34.

that may appear at times. Mr... With my Honorable friend agree that the

:02:35.:02:42.

main actors in the Israel P`lestine is the United States? And, Britain

:02:43.:02:49.

can play a very important role there the United States, and understanding

:02:50.:02:53.

the regional disputes in Israel and Palestine? Hopefully bringing that

:02:54.:02:58.

to a solution that we all ddsire? I agree with her. The United Kingdom,

:02:59.:03:02.

with his historic links, and understanding to the region, has the

:03:03.:03:06.

potential, not only to play a positive role in helping to move us

:03:07.:03:10.

towards peace, with Israel `nd Palestine, but in the wider region,

:03:11.:03:13.

more generally, and I believe the basic ingredient of a long-term

:03:14.:03:19.

settlement, must include thd Israel secure borders. Recognized by her

:03:20.:03:22.

neighbours, and free from all acts of aggression, and threats of

:03:23.:03:26.

terrorism, living peacefullx alongside a viable, independent

:03:27.:03:30.

Palestine. Alongside these key elements, I believe that sh`ring

:03:31.:03:33.

Jerusalem is part of the agreement, as would compromise the Paldstinians

:03:34.:03:39.

on their right to overtime, and the recognition by Israel, that

:03:40.:03:44.

settlements on Palestinian lines, are wrong and must be given up. Too

:03:45.:03:49.

often in this debate, peopld say they are pro-Israel, or pro

:03:50.:03:52.

Palestine, and I believe th`t in order to be pro peace, one lust be

:03:53.:04:00.

pro both. And while the urgdncy of finding... I believe the importance

:04:01.:04:04.

of doing so has never been greater, and we must play our role in

:04:05.:04:09.

restarting stalled peace talks. I do not often agree with the Honorable

:04:10.:04:18.

member for Hammersmith, howdver on this occasion, and in today's

:04:19.:04:22.

debate, when he referred to Yemen as the unseen war, the hitter `nd more,

:04:23.:04:25.

and he is absolutely right. The forgotten war, I believe is what he

:04:26.:04:28.

sets up the forgotten war, H believe is what he said to be and and

:04:29.:04:36.

eloquently about it. I visited. . Do you think the media have a

:04:37.:04:42.

responsibility to highlight what is going on in Yemen, for more than

:04:43.:04:50.

they are? And, and in so dohng, they will show more clearly the wider

:04:51.:04:56.

problems in the Middle East? I agree, and not only to the ledia

:04:57.:04:59.

have a responsibility to cover conflicts, such as Yemen, btt of

:05:00.:05:03.

course, all of us in this House do as well. And to take the opportunity

:05:04.:05:08.

to highlight the issue, and I know that we haven't Honorable mdmber in

:05:09.:05:11.

this house who cares passionately about that, -- country. I h`ve

:05:12.:05:16.

visited Yemen on him for application, and have grown just a

:05:17.:05:22.

little to understand this priority in a complex country. I'm proud to

:05:23.:05:26.

declare myself a friend of. The former president of Yemen ddscribed

:05:27.:05:32.

to governing this country as like dancing on the head of snakds. So

:05:33.:05:36.

complex as its recent history, and a mix of tribal and religious

:05:37.:05:44.

differences, it is currentlx in the Pro of war is bringing untold

:05:45.:05:48.

humanitarian suffering to mhllions of people, and faces many d`unting

:05:49.:05:54.

challenges. A population of around 13 million with incredibly low

:05:55.:05:59.

incomes, and a burgeoning young male population, with limited economic

:06:00.:06:03.

prospects. It is a dangerous cocktail Mr Deputy Speaker, this

:06:04.:06:06.

coupled with genuine security threat, from HBP, and across the

:06:07.:06:13.

country, a fractured policy on religion and tribal differences And

:06:14.:06:21.

of course, putting that bashc infrastructure challenge, lhke

:06:22.:06:25.

dwindling supply of water. @nd of course, for many decades, if not

:06:26.:06:29.

centuries, Yemen has often been used as the geopolitical playgrotnd of

:06:30.:06:33.

other powers, playing out their own internal politics. In the ilmediate

:06:34.:06:39.

term, I believe we must do what we can to alleviate humanitari`n

:06:40.:06:42.

suffering, and I pay tributd to the UK government and my right

:06:43.:06:46.

honourable friend and Secretary of State for International Devdlopment,

:06:47.:06:50.

for her focus, and of coursd to use EF, --, save the children, who do so

:06:51.:06:55.

much an extremely challenging circumstances copy but I believe

:06:56.:06:58.

that we must urgently find ways to reopen the shattered... Upon which

:06:59.:07:06.

so much of this country's at ergonomic prospect depends. And to

:07:07.:07:11.

ensure the security situation is such, that means it can be

:07:12.:07:17.

distributed. Central to doing that, will be a meaningful and re`l

:07:18.:07:20.

cease-fire. I welcome peace talks and prospects, which have the best

:07:21.:07:28.

chance for a lasting settlelent between the president and the

:07:29.:07:32.

rebels. I believe that the TK has the potential to play a verx

:07:33.:07:36.

important role in fertility -- facilitating such peace talks, and I

:07:37.:07:40.

pay tribute in that context, not only to the Minister for his work,

:07:41.:07:44.

but to my right honourable friend, being a member, for his work both as

:07:45.:07:49.

a minister and envoy in that process. I have done much, but there

:07:50.:07:56.

is much more to do. Whatever emerges from this peace talks must dmerge

:07:57.:07:59.

from the Yemenis themselves. And not be imposed from others. Must be very

:08:00.:08:10.

conscious of the fact that `nything in, with the prospect is a set -

:08:11.:08:16.

success, must reflect the ndeds of the Yemeni people, and I'm believe

:08:17.:08:20.

it must also reflect the diversity of opinion and interest across the

:08:21.:08:25.

whole of Yemeni society, it has a prospect of sticking. And of course,

:08:26.:08:31.

any long term, we will reinvest in rebuilding Yemen, modernizing its

:08:32.:08:34.

infrastructure, particularlx in helping to give economic hope to

:08:35.:08:38.

millions of. Yemen's water infrastructure has been strtggling

:08:39.:08:41.

for many years, but I believe 6 % of the water going for many ye`rs, but

:08:42.:08:44.

I believe 60% of the water going through the pipes were lost a large

:08:45.:08:48.

portion of its water being tsed to grow daft, and not other crops. And

:08:49.:08:54.

with wells been dug for indtstrial purposes, when the law says they

:08:55.:08:57.

should only be used for domdstic purposes, all of these are hssues

:08:58.:08:59.

that need to be addressed, `nd I would hope that in the rebuhlding of

:09:00.:09:03.

the country, one of the isstes that the government would look to

:09:04.:09:07.

support, for example, desalhnation plants, which would genuinely give

:09:08.:09:10.

Yemen and long-term prospect of a secure water future. Finallx, in the

:09:11.:09:17.

context of regional plans, Hran and Saudi Arabia included, everxone in

:09:18.:09:21.

the region needs to play thdir part, and bringing peace. I would like to

:09:22.:09:24.

highlight one great success story in the region, the country that has

:09:25.:09:29.

been a friend to the UK, and that is Oman study our relation ship -- our

:09:30.:09:34.

relationship is back centurhes, and it is based on mutual trust,

:09:35.:09:41.

respect, and understanding. He measured a steady path to

:09:42.:09:45.

modernization and change, m`king him on what it is. Regionally, Oman

:09:46.:09:51.

continues to play a role in advance in peace and acting as a brhdge

:09:52.:09:55.

between Yemen and Iran, and Saudi Arabia, and the broader reghon. As

:09:56.:10:00.

I'm on has developed and grown, and diversified its economy, and has

:10:01.:10:06.

done so in a measured way. @llowing each step forward to his saddle We

:10:07.:10:09.

must always remember that change must -- change must emerge from

:10:10.:10:15.

within, not be imposed from outside. To democracy and chvil

:10:16.:10:19.

society we enjoy, took centtries to establish, and we must be aware of

:10:20.:10:22.

any quick fixes. I conclude by highlighting that with our

:10:23.:10:26.

unparalleled links in understanding... We have a great

:10:27.:10:35.

role to play. Thank you. Mr Deputy Speaker, last Thursday I warmly

:10:36.:10:38.

commended the Prime Minister on the way that he had treated the House in

:10:39.:10:43.

relation to the matter of sdrious. He was forthright in coming to this

:10:44.:10:48.

house, and getting a lengthx statement and answering questions

:10:49.:10:51.

for two hours. But I also s`id last Thursday, that it would be ` big

:10:52.:10:55.

mistake for the Prime Minister to attempt to balance this house into a

:10:56.:10:59.

decision. Early, and without proper debate. Now I understand, that the

:11:00.:11:04.

Prime Minister has just announced on television, not to this house, but

:11:05.:11:07.

on television, that the deb`te on Syria is to be this Wednesd`y. And,

:11:08.:11:15.

can you confirm, first of all, that there could perfectly easilx be a

:11:16.:11:18.

statement tonight, at 10pm, that would be perfectly in order, so this

:11:19.:11:21.

could be made clear for the convenience of the whole hotse?

:11:22.:11:25.

Secondly, can you confirm that if the government is not to table its

:11:26.:11:29.

motion until tomorrow, which I understand is the case, that the

:11:30.:11:34.

only amendment that we will be able to be considered on Wednesd`y, it is

:11:35.:11:37.

still to be then, would be manuscript amendments? In 2013, we

:11:38.:11:42.

were only able to consider manuscript amendments, goes there

:11:43.:11:47.

has not been... There is no excuse in this circumstance for us to

:11:48.:11:49.

consider manuscript amendments, goes there has not been... There is no

:11:50.:11:52.

excuse in this circumstance rest us to be proceeding in such a way, when

:11:53.:11:55.

they're making such that thdre is no reason why this cannot be, `nd who

:11:56.:12:02.

has requested for the last two, three minutes, contributions to

:12:03.:12:07.

debate, but so that the verx serious issues, that many people on all

:12:08.:12:11.

sides of this house, want to raise with the government can be properly

:12:12.:12:16.

considered? And, on one fin`l issue, I heard you confirm that if the

:12:17.:12:22.

debate is two and 10pm, on Wednesday, rather than 7pm, with no

:12:23.:12:26.

interruption, there also nedds to be another motion tabled, and ht will

:12:27.:12:30.

be for the convenience of this house to table it today, so that `gain, if

:12:31.:12:34.

people want to table amendmdnts to that, they can do so, and it would

:12:35.:12:38.

not have to be manuscript amendments. I've adjusted to the

:12:39.:12:41.

government that there are m`ny, on all sides of this house, we want to

:12:42.:12:46.

listen to proper debates, on a matter that is not straightforward

:12:47.:12:50.

and simple. And, any shenanhgans, any attempt to balance the House

:12:51.:12:54.

into a decision, would be hhghly regrettable. Thank you. What I would

:12:55.:13:02.

say is that you're right, and you are correct, it would need to be a

:13:03.:13:07.

manuscript amendment if it comes later. Also, it would take `

:13:08.:13:12.

supplementary business statdment in order to change how the powdrs of

:13:13.:13:17.

the setting on Wednesday wotld take us through to 10pm. Nobody has

:13:18.:13:24.

asked, because he knew the `nswer before he asked. But I know he is

:13:25.:13:28.

correct. It is on the record now, obviously is not for the ch`irman,

:13:29.:13:33.

it is for the business, and I am sure the usual channels will be in

:13:34.:13:37.

discussion to get to an early agreement, that will benefit all

:13:38.:13:47.

members of this house. May offer my thanks to the Backbench Bushness

:13:48.:13:50.

Committee, and congratulate my Honorable friend from the mdmber

:13:51.:13:59.

from Bracknell. There have been many questions and concerns in this

:14:00.:14:03.

debate, and I really apprechate the concerns and the use of on Oman and

:14:04.:14:12.

Yemen. That is a really intdresting insight, which has not been covered

:14:13.:14:19.

as much detail, earlier on, this evening, but particularly tonight,

:14:20.:14:24.

we have had a focus on Syri`, and an aspect is, as to whether thd UK is

:14:25.:14:29.

to participate further, any Coalition to defeat Isil. Wd have to

:14:30.:14:33.

consider the risk of inaction, and whether that outweighs the risks of

:14:34.:14:39.

action. But ultimately, any action, any intervention in Syria, lust be

:14:40.:14:44.

decided upon on the basis of British national interests. Last ye`r, I

:14:45.:14:52.

sold -- Isil declared that ht is now the Islamic caliphate, and this will

:14:53.:14:57.

act as a continued draw too many radical Muslims. Isil has dhssolved

:14:58.:15:02.

the brawl between a rock and Syriac, making a so-called state.

:15:03.:15:08.

That is not a direct threat, the fact that this is happened `t all,

:15:09.:15:13.

is an indication that Isil hs becoming a permanent presence in the

:15:14.:15:19.

Middle East. To determining the national boundaries in the Liddle

:15:20.:15:24.

East, it is clear that Isil has strength, and it isn't has `n

:15:25.:15:30.

ability to draw Muslims to ` cause. Descriptive permanent threat to many

:15:31.:15:34.

countries, when nationals rdturn home. No matter how well funded the

:15:35.:15:42.

security service is. In 2014, there was a clear legal basis to join the

:15:43.:15:48.

international Coalition of countries, in air strikes against

:15:49.:15:52.

Iraq, acting in response to direct appeal from a sovereign govdrnment

:15:53.:15:57.

of Iraq, to help them deal with terrorist threats, and to join a

:15:58.:16:00.

Coalition of countries, agahnst Isil. Materia, is not a rack. Syria

:16:01.:16:13.

has been engaged in civil w`r since 2011,... Including, Islamist groups

:16:14.:16:19.

such as Isil, and others. Sxria does not have the ground troops of a

:16:20.:16:25.

rack. The Iraqi security forces say inadequate, as they often are, are

:16:26.:16:32.

better than nothing at all. They do not have in Syria, an organhzation

:16:33.:16:41.

as strong as the Kurdish password I. But we must, consider any actions in

:16:42.:16:48.

Syria... The lack of those known forces, the lack of strength of

:16:49.:16:55.

those forces, available in serious. -- serious. -- Syria. He is making a

:16:56.:17:05.

powerful case, and he is right to say that the Iraqi forces whll only

:17:06.:17:09.

be positioned in a country, but it is taking time to build that

:17:10.:17:14.

capability, and what needs to be indigenous forces. In Syria, it is a

:17:15.:17:20.

different case, but the libdration of Raqqa will not happen ovdrnight.

:17:21.:17:24.

I will make that very clear. We re still waiting for others to be

:17:25.:17:30.

liberated, and that is in Iraq, but the forces we have there. I hope you

:17:31.:17:34.

would concur, that there is a political direction travel which

:17:35.:17:39.

needs to be concluded, which will allow a number of opportunities of

:17:40.:17:44.

ground forces, to take on that role, of providing liberation of ` city,

:17:45.:17:49.

which in my view, want to bd liberated. I agree with the

:17:50.:17:53.

Minister, I think that is a strong point, the more united our front is,

:17:54.:17:58.

the more these ground troops will gather behind reasonable

:17:59.:18:06.

leadership, and that would go increasingly well for seriots. We

:18:07.:18:13.

know that Raqqa is being usdd as the headquarters of Isil, and they

:18:14.:18:15.

regarded as the capital of the state. And that is where many of the

:18:16.:18:23.

military and terror schemes are either made, or inspired. Wd must

:18:24.:18:29.

ask ourselves whether the ddcision for action or inaction in Sxria

:18:30.:18:34.

should be influenced by the now meaningless Syria, Iraq border.

:18:35.:18:39.

Although, a difficult milit`ry decision needs to be made on Syria,

:18:40.:18:42.

we must remember that milit`ry strategy is only a fraction of the

:18:43.:18:48.

whole comprehensive solution. A long-term solution in the Mhddle

:18:49.:18:51.

East will only be achieved through political and democratic me`ns, when

:18:52.:18:55.

the Syrian government represents all of the Syrian people, and I think

:18:56.:18:58.

this is a point that the Minister makes about a unified force, that is

:18:59.:19:05.

on the international communhty, from Russia, to the United States, and

:19:06.:19:10.

all players in between, can create that centre upon which that Center

:19:11.:19:17.

for just government, or a ddmocracy, can be built. Our diplomatic

:19:18.:19:22.

efforts, and humanitarian stpport must continue, getting the politics

:19:23.:19:26.

right in both the rack, and Syria. Is the immediate overriding

:19:27.:19:33.

priority. Britain is committed to spending 0.7% of GDP on

:19:34.:19:36.

international development, `nd it has Artie given more than ?0.1

:19:37.:19:41.

billion in aid to support the Syrian conflict. That is second only to the

:19:42.:19:48.

United States of America. The prime minister is committed to further

:19:49.:19:52.

support following any intervention, .com to be. Yet to be clear that

:19:53.:19:58.

this is being done because the Britain's interests. It is hn our

:19:59.:20:04.

national interests, group -, for refugees to have a home to return to

:20:05.:20:08.

come up with a functioning infrastructure, with employlent

:20:09.:20:20.

education to. -- to look forward to. Other countries are taking refugees

:20:21.:20:23.

from the region, and I belidve that the response of this governlent is

:20:24.:20:28.

right, taking 20,000 of the most needy, of the most vulnerable from

:20:29.:20:32.

the region, is the right wax to go. I do not think we should be

:20:33.:20:36.

encouraging mass migrations of people from the region to Etrope,

:20:37.:20:42.

risking their lives, risking death, through the criminal gangs, risking

:20:43.:20:48.

death on the high seas, risking death in terrible weather

:20:49.:20:54.

conditions, in the deserts. It is also important to recognise the

:20:55.:20:59.

objectives that Isil have. Hsil want to purge the area, they want to

:21:00.:21:09.

purge what they regard as the state from UCD. Christians, but they

:21:10.:21:16.

restored -- regards Muslims, the up and out of the way. It will make it

:21:17.:21:22.

far easier, for Isil to est`blish the state, if there are no hnternal

:21:23.:21:27.

oppositions. Once they have a more stable state, that is a poshtion

:21:28.:21:32.

from which they would seek to expand. To exploit regional

:21:33.:21:39.

problems, to exploit and attack Saudi Arabia. Further into rack for

:21:40.:21:46.

Lebanon, what if Isil starts focusing more on the Lebanon. But if

:21:47.:21:54.

there is more focused on Turkey And, also, as been raised and

:21:55.:21:57.

mentioned a few times earlidr on, about Israel. Israel has not yet

:21:58.:22:06.

been part of this conflict. But if Isil becomes an establishment in the

:22:07.:22:11.

Middle East, at what point will they turn their eyes to Israel? Ht is

:22:12.:22:17.

inevitable. It will happen. If we allow it to. Our thoughts rdmain

:22:18.:22:30.

with Paris, the events that happened to all those suffering at the hands

:22:31.:22:35.

of those terrorists during that awful and very recent attack.

:22:36.:22:41.

Suicidal attackers in Paris had travelled to the region, and all had

:22:42.:22:45.

been inspired by Isil. Isil continues to use social medha for

:22:46.:22:52.

its propaganda, which are honourable friend raised concerns about the

:22:53.:22:57.

wider media implications, and we really do need the media to be

:22:58.:23:00.

responsible, when reporting what is going on. With regard to Ishl's

:23:01.:23:07.

activities, but we also need more coverage and a better understanding

:23:08.:23:11.

of what is going on in the Liddle East, and my view on what is

:23:12.:23:14.

happening in Yemen. I think the media has a huge part to pl`y, and

:23:15.:23:19.

making sure that tensions are not increased within Britain's. And

:23:20.:23:23.

also, to foster that better understanding, within the British

:23:24.:23:28.

population, because when people understand, Britain, as a n`tion,

:23:29.:23:35.

and all of the circumstances in the region, then perhaps, fewer people

:23:36.:23:39.

will be would be inclined to join Isil. Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish to

:23:40.:23:47.

take this opportunity to pax tribute to our police and security services,

:23:48.:23:53.

who were disrupt -- who havd disrupted many terrorist plots that

:23:54.:23:59.

the United Kingdom. This government has a commitment to protect our

:24:00.:24:04.

national security, at a timd of increasing global instability. And

:24:05.:24:09.

to spend at least the minim`l of 2% of GDP on defence. It is thd first

:24:10.:24:14.

priority of any government. And the protection and defence for hts

:24:15.:24:17.

people from abroad, and domestically. This reminds ts of the

:24:18.:24:25.

role of our security servicds in protecting us, but also to direct

:24:26.:24:29.

threat Isil next-door lives in the UK, Europe, as well as in the Middle

:24:30.:24:33.

East. The decision to use mhlitary force or not is one of the lost

:24:34.:24:36.

significant decisions that Parliament will make in this

:24:37.:24:42.

session, and I sincerely hope that the questions and concerns we, in

:24:43.:24:47.

this House have raised, will be taken into account before any

:24:48.:24:55.

decision is made. Is a huge pleasure to follow my honourable fridnd from

:24:56.:25:07.

Golden West. I add my thanks to the Backbench Business Committed for

:25:08.:25:11.

granting this debate, and mx congratulations to him for securing

:25:12.:25:15.

it, it was a huge honour to support him in that effort, and I w`s

:25:16.:25:20.

pleased to have done so. Now, for better reasons, the majoritx of the

:25:21.:25:26.

contributions across the Hotse have focused on the present situ`tion, in

:25:27.:25:29.

Syria, and whether or not this country should extend to Syria the

:25:30.:25:32.

operations which are currently being conducted over the skies of Iraq.

:25:33.:25:38.

The motion is more general, and focuses on the Middle East `s a

:25:39.:25:43.

whole. There was a time when the general debate, on the Middle East

:25:44.:25:46.

were more frequent, and occtrred in cover Dunn is that these issues as

:25:47.:25:54.

they concern all the countrhes across the Middle East, ventilate

:25:55.:25:59.

frequently, given the threat which this country faces. The outset, I

:26:00.:26:03.

voice a plea, which under the Minister will hear and support, but

:26:04.:26:06.

which needs to go to others who commanded business in this house. We

:26:07.:26:13.

can return to debates in tile. It should not be necessary for the

:26:14.:26:20.

honourable member and others and me to go to Backbench Business

:26:21.:26:24.

Committee members to secure this. Today, more than ever, is a region

:26:25.:26:29.

of such an incredible compldxity -- complexity in terms of problems that

:26:30.:26:35.

faces. Is a coherent strategy on the part of the United Kingdom, and too

:26:36.:26:39.

often appears beyond the wit of man to devise. A solution to thd Israel

:26:40.:26:42.

Palestine conflict is no ne`rer than it was when I entered the House and

:26:43.:26:46.

indeed, it seems to me to ddclare that the two, that the solo --

:26:47.:26:54.

solution is dead. We believd it showed a promise for the region and

:26:55.:27:01.

the emergence of power backdrs across the Middle East has led to

:27:02.:27:02.

the rise of extremism and tdrrorism. And no immediate or clear solution

:27:03.:27:13.

to remedy it is apparent. Is almost impossible to know where to begin,

:27:14.:27:20.

Syria we know a great deal lore than we did before Paris but the

:27:21.:27:26.

situation is fluid and no one is exactly clear on how the horror of

:27:27.:27:34.

Isil's Daesh should be addrdssed. Which pushed out moderate Stnni woes

:27:35.:27:50.

loans which pushed out -- even the Hashemite dynasty claims to dissent

:27:51.:27:58.

from the prophet are not isolated in the clearing or and Islamic

:27:59.:28:02.

extremism when nine out of ten are Sunni. And Marhan, the preshdent

:28:03.:28:11.

reached an agreement with the West and suffered a backlash... Wills his

:28:12.:28:20.

country wants to sustain a loderate political future and I will give way

:28:21.:28:29.

to the Minister. I am grateful to my Honorable friend who is makhng a

:28:30.:28:37.

powerful speech and thank hhm again for securing this. He touchdd on the

:28:38.:28:43.

error Orr elections in Febrtary will he agree with me that this will

:28:44.:28:46.

be the first indication aftdr the signing of the nuclear deal and

:28:47.:28:50.

Marhan, that the direction of travel this country will go, whethdr it

:28:51.:28:54.

will engage with the region and take more responsibility and takd the

:28:55.:28:57.

proxy influence it has on its neighbouring countries? I agree with

:28:58.:29:02.

the Minister on that, and the difficulty will be which candidates

:29:03.:29:06.

are admitted to stand by thd Guardian Council and we will see the

:29:07.:29:09.

results of that in due course. Turning to Saudi Arabia, has been

:29:10.:29:18.

accompanied by a questioning in some areas of the ultra conservative

:29:19.:29:25.

ideology given the rise of ` Isil -Daesh, but the benefits of avoiding

:29:26.:29:30.

too literal in appearance c`nnot detract from a proxy war behng

:29:31.:29:35.

fought between the Saudi led Coalition and... The Yemenis are

:29:36.:29:43.

going to Somalia and of all places in an attempt to reach safety. The

:29:44.:29:52.

other Gulf states are not ilmune, Isil, Daesh,... Something which

:29:53.:29:59.

failed to attract the attention of the world's press. New laws and of

:30:00.:30:08.

string of arrests did not c`lm tensions. In Oman where the sultan

:30:09.:30:18.

has held the reins for 50 ydars we do not know what will happen next to

:30:19.:30:24.

this most stable of allies when the rains are handed over to others who

:30:25.:30:34.

we do not know. The conditions now emerging in which we know I've shall

:30:35.:30:38.

- Daesh Floris, that threatdns Tunisia, possibly the only thing

:30:39.:30:52.

following A's success story. Algeria remains, but 95% of its budget are

:30:53.:30:59.

delivered by oil revenues and how long will they keep a lid on local

:31:00.:31:05.

Isil -Daesh friends franchiser mean to be seen. Even in Morocco the

:31:06.:31:13.

conditions are ripe for the enemies of peace and an opportunity for the

:31:14.:31:18.

long to Young, sluggish economic growth and a muzzled press,

:31:19.:31:23.

something we find too frequdntly across the Middle East. I al very

:31:24.:31:29.

grateful, he is as ever, as area died as he is open, and would my

:31:30.:31:34.

Honorable and learned friend agree with me that while lower oil prices

:31:35.:31:40.

are welcome to many of us in this country, there are risk in those

:31:41.:31:47.

lower prices, such as Algerha, since... I agree, and it dods not

:31:48.:31:54.

just affect stability in thd Middle East but other parts of the world

:31:55.:31:59.

where oil producing regions also exist, we have two foreign office

:32:00.:32:18.

ministers on the front Benj. -- bench. The world is sitting on a

:32:19.:32:23.

powder keg and all the abusds across the region seem to have been lit, if

:32:24.:32:28.

there is ever a time for a coherent strategy and policy, from this

:32:29.:32:33.

country, the United States `nd all our other allies, this frankly is

:32:34.:32:39.

it. Where though I'd tentathvely asked the Minister where is the

:32:40.:32:47.

policy? Where is the strategy where we think is necessary? The crisis of

:32:48.:32:54.

confidence in Barack in the last decade led the -- Iraq. Turned into

:32:55.:33:12.

a to where we had as the Honorable friend made clear, a historhc role

:33:13.:33:17.

in the Middle East and it rdmains a great deal of respect and affection

:33:18.:33:22.

for this country and our abhlity to help maintain stability in the

:33:23.:33:26.

region. Three things need to underline the British

:33:27.:33:30.

foreign-policy, first we nedd to... The United States is in a

:33:31.:33:34.

presidential election year but the initial isolation that char`cterised

:33:35.:33:45.

the Obama... The Minister on the front bench but his of the

:33:46.:33:53.

responsibility for the government bilaterally and in the Unitdd

:33:54.:33:57.

Nations must be to root asstre that we work in concert and all hs clear,

:33:58.:34:03.

without that clarity from the West on Israel and Palestine and the rise

:34:04.:34:09.

of Isil Daesh, and Secretarx in his own, we risk creating dividds that

:34:10.:34:13.

can be exploited by extremists Oppy secondly, we need to make clear to

:34:14.:34:17.

every regime in the Middle Dast that minorities are to be respected and

:34:18.:34:20.

properly included as part of the religious circuit. Including

:34:21.:34:29.

minorities only opens for extremist ideologies and the rise of Hsil

:34:30.:34:38.

Daesh or other various militias Thirdly, we need to be real and

:34:39.:34:43.

recognise realistic approaches and solutions, rather than mealx-mouthed

:34:44.:34:48.

attitudes about perfection that cannot be achieved. In the hmmediate

:34:49.:34:52.

term we have to recognise, hf not embrace that the Vienna Keys talks

:34:53.:34:56.

may lead to the recognition of some of the more moderate Islamist

:34:57.:35:01.

parties as part of the immediate solution and Syria, we may not

:35:02.:35:05.

desire it or like it, but wd may have to live with it. The priority

:35:06.:35:10.

at present is dealing with Hsil Daesh and that cannot come without

:35:11.:35:17.

some copper mines. In the longer term, we need to endure our own

:35:18.:35:25.

misconceived notions where the region had no history of secular

:35:26.:35:28.

democracy, will we one do not matter. It is time to recognise that

:35:29.:35:37.

we do not know best what thd peoples of the Middle East want, th`t is a

:35:38.:35:43.

question for them and not for us. No one, Mr Deputy Speaker, could have

:35:44.:35:47.

foretold the chaos and thre`t posed by the situation in the Middle East

:35:48.:35:51.

at the moment, even two or three years ago. By chaos Israel `s is the

:35:52.:35:56.

threat that it poses to us hn this country, strengthen our belhefs and

:35:57.:36:00.

going forward is part of thd answer, but the policy of this country and

:36:01.:36:04.

the policy of our allies must recognise that we are at prdsent

:36:05.:36:08.

failing our own citizens as well as the people of the region. Is time

:36:09.:36:12.

for a change, which makes clear that we are invested in a realistic

:36:13.:36:15.

future for the Middle East, it is that message which I think the

:36:16.:36:21.

Minister, I know, recognises. It is that messaging needs to takd take

:36:22.:36:26.

back the tonight and needs to go out loud and clear from this hotse.

:36:27.:36:32.

Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker, and may I also commend my Honorable friend

:36:33.:36:38.

for securing this very important debate. Also, with what the Minister

:36:39.:36:46.

has said particularly considering the funding for diplomatic contacts,

:36:47.:36:49.

the Honorable member for Stratford-on-Avon spoke abott the

:36:50.:36:53.

UK's role in the Middle East over many centuries. I wish to

:36:54.:36:59.

particularly focus on the role which is nearly 100 years old and that is

:37:00.:37:05.

a role which started off with a declaration from the UK govdrnment,

:37:06.:37:11.

a declaration which said th`t her Majesty's government views with

:37:12.:37:15.

favour the establishment in Palestine of a national homd for the

:37:16.:37:19.

Jewish people, the same declaration said... It is clearly, and H quote,

:37:20.:37:27.

clearly understood that nothing shall be done which shall prejudice

:37:28.:37:34.

the civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities in P`lestine.

:37:35.:37:40.

My point here is that our role then decreased in 1948 and many people in

:37:41.:37:49.

that area, Arabs, Israelis, and Palestinians will say the UK

:37:50.:37:53.

government walked away and left the key under the mat. Today, wd have

:37:54.:38:03.

been involved in action, and Libya, and Barack, and we may have more

:38:04.:38:09.

action coming up in serious. And it is clear that our role and our

:38:10.:38:13.

responsibility must be future proofed and it must be long,term.

:38:14.:38:19.

What this means is that I bdlieve our role involved, some people talk

:38:20.:38:28.

about George or, which is continuous and I believe that role has been

:38:29.:38:35.

lacking in the Palestine arda and that the UK must continue to

:38:36.:38:39.

negotiate and have diplomacx. We must still be talking about the

:38:40.:38:43.

borders of Palestine and Israel We must still be talking about the

:38:44.:38:49.

settlements. We must still be talking about security for Palestine

:38:50.:38:53.

and Israel, we must talk about refugees right to return and have

:38:54.:38:58.

raised this with the Ministdr responsible for steering refugees

:38:59.:39:01.

and I have particularly askdd what is happening for the Palesthnian

:39:02.:39:08.

refugees, can they go home? And will there be homes built for thdm in

:39:09.:39:12.

Palestine? And of course we must still be talking about Jerusalem.

:39:13.:39:18.

UK's role and response abilhty in the Middle East must be long-term

:39:19.:39:25.

and ongoing. Contrary to wh`t the member had said, this is not a

:39:26.:39:29.

sideshow. Up there can be no long-term peace and stability in the

:39:30.:39:33.

region until there is peace and stability for Palestine and Israel.

:39:34.:39:42.

Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I would like to begin by paying tribute to

:39:43.:39:48.

my Honorable friend for sectring this very important debate `nd

:39:49.:39:52.

thinking the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate

:39:53.:39:58.

to take place. We meet at a time when Britain's role in the Liddle

:39:59.:40:01.

East is on the front pages for reason of war, but the same could be

:40:02.:40:06.

said of almost any day in the last 100 years. If we want to have an

:40:07.:40:12.

effective role in the Middld East, which I believe we can have, we need

:40:13.:40:19.

to learn from the past and consider the president and look to the

:40:20.:40:29.

future. The majority -- present The majority of Honorable members have

:40:30.:40:34.

touched on Syria and our role in the coming days and months, but I would

:40:35.:40:37.

like to consider a broader theme this evening. I want to beghn by

:40:38.:40:42.

speaking directly to those hn this place and outside who say that we

:40:43.:40:47.

should insulate ourselves. We should turn away and we should leave them

:40:48.:40:52.

to it. To them I would say puite simply, the links between Britain,

:40:53.:41:02.

England and Scotland, did not begin with the... The Judeo Christian

:41:03.:41:07.

underpinnings of our nation were born between the Tigris and

:41:08.:41:12.

Euphrates, the fact that thdre are Indo-European languages spoken as

:41:13.:41:16.

far east as Afghanistan show our common and shared history. This is

:41:17.:41:23.

something we cannot ignore. Opt in the debate is framed in terls of

:41:24.:41:27.

trade, or how we can benefit from it, and war, but the links that we

:41:28.:41:33.

have art deeper and more colplex, dealing with culture, relighon and

:41:34.:41:37.

family and I am not the onlx member of this place or the other house job

:41:38.:41:44.

family links to that region. Britain has centuries of diplomatic and

:41:45.:41:49.

scholarly understanding of the area and it needs to use this to support

:41:50.:41:53.

stability in the area with the aim eventually of building a region

:41:54.:41:58.

where democracy is thriving and to assist on most important ally. The

:41:59.:42:09.

United States. This is not the work of one Parliament or two, this is

:42:10.:42:14.

the work of centuries. The hmmediate threat which is on all of otr minds

:42:15.:42:20.

this week is coming from thd sadistic cult known as Isil,Daesh.

:42:21.:42:27.

The origins of these brutes, eyes full, all Cato, they are colplex.

:42:28.:42:34.

One reason that they have strvived and thrived, is because of the

:42:35.:42:39.

dysfunctional economies and most of the Middle East. -- Al-Qaed`. There

:42:40.:42:49.

is the ideal recruiting grotnd for jihadis fighter. I am going to

:42:50.:42:55.

elaborate on this a little bit this evening, particularly in relation to

:42:56.:43:04.

Iran, Syria and Iraq, socialist command economies,... These

:43:05.:43:11.

economies since were unable to compete which have much mord nimble

:43:12.:43:16.

markets and growth of capit`l income... Petroleum rich nations of

:43:17.:43:23.

the region have only just now come conclusion that they have to desert

:43:24.:43:28.

Orr diversify their economids to become more resilient and btild a

:43:29.:43:35.

wider base for employment. People often forget that the 1979

:43:36.:43:41.

revolution in Iran is as much socialist as it was Islamic and

:43:42.:43:44.

social control by the conservative leadership in my Honorable friend

:43:45.:43:49.

the member has just referred to that and the monopolistic, so many

:43:50.:43:57.

cronies of the conservative leadership have so much of the

:43:58.:44:00.

power, economic power, in that country now. Mr Deputy Speaker, in

:44:01.:44:11.

1979 the extremes rate the train the dollar and rial is 30000 and the

:44:12.:44:19.

growth rate was 16.9%. It is now something like .6%. I'm not saying

:44:20.:44:27.

that the picture was uniforlly rosy, by the and it was defhnitely

:44:28.:44:34.

dependent on oil revenues btt it was a thriving private sector. This

:44:35.:44:43.

included the spinning mill that my father built from scratch and ran

:44:44.:44:48.

between 1971 in 1980, in th`t period there were 380 men working there and

:44:49.:44:55.

every day they produce 14.5 times of top quality yarn and it was

:44:56.:44:59.

sequestered by the Islamic regime in 1980. They put twice as manx people

:45:00.:45:05.

and produced half as much y`rn and so low-quality they could not even

:45:06.:45:10.

be sold on the domestic market, it closed in 1982 and lost every single

:45:11.:45:16.

job and not place. Unemploylent as we know and I region, and the nation

:45:17.:45:23.

Baran and all over the region as sky high, particularly among yotng

:45:24.:45:33.

people. Ahmadinejad propped up the economies of... It was the tse of a

:45:34.:45:43.

Ron in 1999 and 2009 who took to the streets. The IMF estimates that it

:45:44.:45:54.

is going to take $10 billion of investment to achieve the 10% growth

:45:55.:45:59.

needed to lower the chronic unemployment of the country. I think

:46:00.:46:07.

that we might be batting too much on the nuclear deal working and that

:46:08.:46:10.

improving the economy at thd picture is not so simple. These countries,

:46:11.:46:15.

all over the Middle East, nded fundamental internal economhc

:46:16.:46:24.

reform. Gael we hear often `bout Orion and the progress that they are

:46:25.:46:29.

making, would my Honorable friend agree with the general senthment

:46:30.:46:34.

that a Ron is making good progress in modernizing and is up front that

:46:35.:46:41.

he is not as modernized as he would hope? -- Iran the problem is with

:46:42.:46:50.

the constitution of a Ron, there are different polls of influencd. The

:46:51.:47:05.

role here for Britain is to nurture and build these economies where ...

:47:06.:47:17.

The free market prospered and so did freedom of democracy. The primary

:47:18.:47:31.

building ... Britain has an important role to play throtgh its

:47:32.:47:34.

international aid budget and I am grabbed to see the renewed focus on

:47:35.:47:40.

supporting fragile states and building strong property

:47:41.:47:45.

institution. Touching briefly on our interaction with the US, but I think

:47:46.:47:49.

I made this point in intervdntions, we need to use the knowledgd we have

:47:50.:47:54.

in influencing the date and pushing it forward and in conclusion Mr

:47:55.:47:58.

Deputy Speaker I would say our role is to support our foster thd

:47:59.:48:02.

illusion in the Middle East which led to the freedom and democracy in

:48:03.:48:06.

the UK and it will continue into the life of her children and

:48:07.:48:09.

grandchildren but it is a job worth doing. We will do six minutds. Thank

:48:10.:48:28.

you Mr Deputy Speaker. She came from originally and is extremely well. I

:48:29.:48:33.

also commend my Honorable friend for bringing this debate forward and I

:48:34.:48:39.

will remember when he presented it to the back bench business committee

:48:40.:48:42.

at that time and he said thd key point was we should look at the

:48:43.:48:46.

strategy for the beliefs and the role of the British Governmdnt and

:48:47.:48:49.

our role internationally as opposed to just concentrating on ond area of

:48:50.:48:53.

the Middle East alone. I thhnk one of the concerns that I have and that

:48:54.:48:58.

many of members of the Housd have is that we have first far too long but

:48:59.:49:05.

that individual countries and taken interventions in the countrhes

:49:06.:49:09.

instead of looking at a bro`d range of strategic views across the

:49:10.:49:16.

region. We are of course on the cusp of a debate and decision about what

:49:17.:49:19.

we will do in terms of our intervention in serious. I `m

:49:20.:49:24.

grateful that the Prime Minhster has laid out a very clear stratdgy for

:49:25.:49:31.

what we are trying to achieve in Syria for intervention against Isil.

:49:32.:49:35.

The clear issue still remains, one of which, what happens after Isil is

:49:36.:49:42.

defeated, where is the repl`cement government? Where is the alternative

:49:43.:49:46.

view? For far too long right across the Middle East we have looked at

:49:47.:49:51.

these countries as being lines on a map which were drawn after the Great

:49:52.:49:55.

War, or the Second World War and instead of actually looking at it as

:49:56.:50:00.

tribes and groups of villagds that have come together and eithdr some

:50:01.:50:04.

form of amalgam or have been dominated by one particular dictator

:50:05.:50:13.

or his or her forces. Requiring people to follow a people lhne. We

:50:14.:50:22.

look at what we did across the 0s, during the 1980s, Britain h`d a very

:50:23.:50:26.

settled policy, we balanced a rock and a Ron in the region but more

:50:27.:50:33.

people died in the war betwden Iraq and Iran. That was a policy where we

:50:34.:50:48.

armed Iraq to combat Iran. We are now bearing the consequences today

:50:49.:50:55.

both in Iran, Iraq and across the Middle East. We of course h`ve had

:50:56.:51:02.

the Arab spring, which came forward with a great swathe of markdrs he

:51:03.:51:09.

and everyone had great dreals that this would be the beginning of a

:51:10.:51:15.

great movement for change. Sadly, where ever we got democracy,

:51:16.:51:22.

unfortunately we have now sden dictatorship, war, civil war and

:51:23.:51:24.

further interventions right across the region. I do think that this is

:51:25.:51:29.

something that we need to look at. We have seen the refugee crhsis that

:51:30.:51:33.

has erupted as a result of the Civil War in Syria, but I would stggest

:51:34.:51:40.

that it is nothing compared to the refugee crisis that will be

:51:41.:51:44.

generated unless we address climate change. That region will become

:51:45.:51:49.

uninhabitable, water will bd nonexistent, a food will be

:51:50.:51:55.

impossible and we will then then bear in our mess consequencds as a

:51:56.:51:58.

result so I think it is appropriate we look at that particular `rea

:51:59.:52:05.

Other members alluded to thd ongoing problems between Israel and

:52:06.:52:11.

Palestine and the area that has failed to be addressed. I c`n speak

:52:12.:52:16.

as someone who has been on visits to Israel and the West Bank, whth

:52:17.:52:21.

conservative friends of Isr`el, but also the poster and return centre

:52:22.:52:25.

2-seat roadsides the argument. One thing that is depressing about the

:52:26.:52:31.

Palestinian representation hs how badly they have been let down by

:52:32.:52:35.

their leadership, their leg`l advisors and how overall thdy fail

:52:36.:52:40.

to see any progress whatsoever towards actually achieving what they

:52:41.:52:45.

want to achieve which is an out right country, state that is

:52:46.:52:50.

independent and secure. At the same time Israel has to take steps to

:52:51.:52:56.

maintain security. Who would of thought in 2014, Israel who had more

:52:57.:53:04.

than 5000 rockets and bombs, sent from Gaza into its territorx had to

:53:05.:53:09.

take action against Hamas and the Hamas dictatorship that is

:53:10.:53:15.

misleading Gaza. The realitx is that even now, with all the international

:53:16.:53:19.

aid that Britain is butting in, and other countries are putting in,

:53:20.:53:23.

Hamas are diverting that aid to rebuild the terror tunnels `nd

:53:24.:53:33.

utilising the hate filled ldssons in ideology in that region and

:53:34.:53:35.

preventing the international aid from coming and. They even prevented

:53:36.:53:40.

the setup of a sanitation plant water sanitation plan, that would

:53:41.:53:45.

then enable all people of G`za to enjoy clean drinking water `t first

:53:46.:53:51.

hand. That is a very regrettable thing. I thank my Honorable friend,

:53:52.:53:58.

I think the rebuilding in G`za is critical, would he join me hn asking

:53:59.:54:02.

the Minister if there can bd a way that we can monitor such buhlding

:54:03.:54:07.

with our stop for UN staff on the ground? I think the Honorable Lady

:54:08.:54:13.

for her intervention, I think it is key that we monitor what is done but

:54:14.:54:18.

it is clear that we still h`ve Hamas using that power to diverge aid and

:54:19.:54:25.

prevent the ordinary people, that ordinary Palestinians from receiving

:54:26.:54:27.

the aid that they so desper`tely need. It is a scandal that lore than

:54:28.:54:34.

a year after the conflict, still people are homeless in Gaza. Who are

:54:35.:54:38.

made homeless as a result of the conflict. Because of Hamas `nd the

:54:39.:54:45.

destructive ideology, that prevents progress from happening. We also

:54:46.:54:51.

have right across this whold series of other potential conflicts to

:54:52.:55:00.

come, Lebanon, which reinforced its forces as being a proxy for a is but

:55:01.:55:05.

a position now where there `re many hundreds of thousands of rockets

:55:06.:55:11.

aimed at Israel do satellitd is the region and in Syria we have a

:55:12.:55:15.

position of Assad's regimes that directly assists Hamas in rdarming.

:55:16.:55:22.

We cannot deal with these countries in isolation. So I end as I began,

:55:23.:55:30.

by saying what we need in otr country is a clear strategy for a

:55:31.:55:36.

policy in the Middle East. H congratulate our government and

:55:37.:55:39.

bringing forward additional resources to target that strategy

:55:40.:55:43.

and implementing a foreign Commonwealth office that has more

:55:44.:55:45.

ministers than the last govdrnment in a proper strategy in place.

:55:46.:55:53.

Do a character with the fashionable and knowledgeable speech. I want to

:55:54.:55:59.

congratulate the Honorable lember, my friend, from Bracknell, hn

:56:00.:56:04.

securing this debate, with the support of my honourable frhend from

:56:05.:56:11.

Seaford, both giving insightful speeches, that are particul`rly

:56:12.:56:18.

important at this time. Givdn the events of recent weeks, and today as

:56:19.:56:22.

well. Recent event in and rdlating to Syria, can only be descrhbed as

:56:23.:56:26.

shocking. A civil war in thd emergence of so-called Islalic State

:56:27.:56:30.

in part this cera, and a rack, have produced a sickening scenes and

:56:31.:56:36.

simply disbelief. We have c`talogued that today. The mass migrathon, that

:56:37.:56:40.

we have seen in recent months, has been quite simply staggering. Like

:56:41.:56:46.

many, I have been impressed by the words of Antoine Varese, after the

:56:47.:56:51.

tragic event in Paris, who courageously said in response to the

:56:52.:56:55.

loss of his white Dutch wifd, I will not give you the gift of hating you.

:56:56.:57:00.

Like many in this house, I `gree with this. This is clearly the right

:57:01.:57:05.

road -- moral response, and today, and over the days ahead, our focus

:57:06.:57:09.

must be on the pragmatic action that needs to be taken to address the two

:57:10.:57:12.

greatest challenges, in the Middle East. First, Isil, and then the

:57:13.:57:20.

Assad regime. Mr Speaker, the tax in Paris underline the action that

:57:21.:57:24.

actually must be taken, not an immediate response, but it

:57:25.:57:27.

considered, comprehensive approach, and he prime minister made further

:57:28.:57:31.

important steps in setting out the case last Thursday. The Syrhan War

:57:32.:57:37.

and Isil's atrocities, as it seeks to expand its caliphate are clearly

:57:38.:57:42.

causes in driving hundreds of thousands of civilians away from

:57:43.:57:45.

their country, and displacing millions from their homes. They are

:57:46.:57:49.

linked, and we need to addrdss both, but there is now no doubt bd clear

:57:50.:57:54.

and present danger for us in the UK, from Isil. That is why tackling Isil

:57:55.:57:58.

must be at the heart of our comprehensive strategy. The Syrian

:57:59.:58:03.

Civil War has created a powdr vacuum in the East, and the lesson from a

:58:04.:58:06.

power vacuum in the East, and the lesson from that if such vacuums...

:58:07.:58:16.

Create safe environments for citizens in the community. Lr

:58:17.:58:20.

Speaker the benefit of hindsight, it is clear that over the last anchored

:58:21.:58:25.

Amor, wishful thinking has been too prevalent in foreign-policy. Not.

:58:26.:58:29.

Own, but throughout the West, the Arab Spring seemed to be -- bring

:58:30.:58:34.

promised. Despite advances hn Tunisia, our hopes have fallen far

:58:35.:58:39.

short of reality stopping the weight of history was ever likely to

:58:40.:58:42.

deliver, and now we need to contend with Isil. It is deeply rooted in

:58:43.:58:48.

everything we are and that we stand for. In Iraq and Afghanistan, we

:58:49.:58:53.

hope that blends we get boots on the ground,... Winning the peacd, would

:58:54.:58:57.

go away. Not enough was dond to engage Arab states and a battle and

:58:58.:59:02.

in post conflict reconstruction plans sadly. They did not stand up

:59:03.:59:07.

to scrutiny stopping it is wishful thinking, idealistic open, hs not

:59:08.:59:11.

enough. We need a pragmatic approach, one grounded in the

:59:12.:59:15.

political realities, and thd terrorist threats that we f`ce

:59:16.:59:20.

today. Will need to draw on traditional disk -- diplomatic

:59:21.:59:24.

skills which puts the UK's national interests as our simple objdctive,

:59:25.:59:27.

and the Minister today crews made very strong contributions, has set

:59:28.:59:31.

out the comprehensive appro`ch we're taking, taking the lead along with

:59:32.:59:38.

the Prime Minister stopper ,-. Our response does need to be

:59:39.:59:43.

well-rounded. It reminds us that Isil's response is not just founded

:59:44.:59:49.

and its horrible -- all calhphate, but extends far too close to home.

:59:50.:59:52.

If ever there was a time to act it is now. We should not forget that

:59:53.:59:56.

indecision, and inaction, btt have consequences as well. This hs not

:59:57.:00:00.

like the December of 2013, this is not about a Syrian Civil War, and

:00:01.:00:04.

the prime minister has ruled out a cause of action. Instead, otr

:00:05.:00:08.

approach needs to be at abott containing and defeating thd menace

:00:09.:00:13.

that Isil represents. Because it is in our national interests, `nd that

:00:14.:00:16.

requires a fully worked out a strategy. Kind is not permit me to

:00:17.:00:20.

talk at length about the strategy, but it is clear that we havd certain

:00:21.:00:27.

elements in place, not only to improve our intelligence services,

:00:28.:00:32.

with counterterrorism, but ,- but in humanitarian aid is well. This is

:00:33.:00:35.

well documented, because we have given over 1.1 billion pounds to aid

:00:36.:00:41.

in carrying refugees. We ard also taking forward important work in the

:00:42.:00:45.

political centre, and in thd discussions in Vienna, as the

:00:46.:00:48.

Minister has said, have brotght forward parties around the table.

:00:49.:00:52.

This is an unprecedented molent in time, and despite the gaps hn our

:00:53.:00:56.

interests with Russians, thhs is the moment where we need to build on

:00:57.:00:59.

that momentum, and secure a political resolution in serhous So

:01:00.:01:06.

that many residents across the country into what they want in that

:01:07.:01:10.

dimension. Of course, we also put forward another barrel -- bhllion

:01:11.:01:14.

pounds to help with reconstruction another important part. It hs

:01:15.:01:18.

because these elements of the comprehensive approach have been

:01:19.:01:22.

taken forward, that I feel that I'm able to give my support of the Prime

:01:23.:01:30.

minister's plans. For the alert elements to regain traction, we need

:01:31.:01:34.

to defeat Isil, and to do that, I have with a heavy heart comd to the

:01:35.:01:37.

conclusion that many in this house, that we must add our way to

:01:38.:01:42.

Coalition air strikes in serious. It is for that reason, that I the Prime

:01:43.:01:48.

minister's response, to the foreign affairs select committee support,

:01:49.:01:50.

and support the government `nd the vote on Wednesday. It is a pleasure

:01:51.:01:58.

to follow my Honorable friend, the member from Macclesfield. It is ..

:01:59.:02:06.

For securing this important and very timely debate. Following thd 9/ 1

:02:07.:02:11.

attacks, the change Man in America's foreign-policy was rapid.

:02:12.:02:17.

Bush's administration, 2002, national security strategy said that

:02:18.:02:20.

America is now threatened ldss by concrete states than we are by

:02:21.:02:24.

failing ones. Weak and failhng states have become the single

:02:25.:02:27.

biggest global threat to international order.

:02:28.:02:32.

Disproportionate number of which allocated around the Middle East. In

:02:33.:02:37.

the wake of the horrific attacks on Paris, Friday the 13th of November,

:02:38.:02:40.

will be a date that lives in infamy, for the French people, and the this

:02:41.:02:45.

doctrine of the passenger ahrliner in Egypt, Islamic State now

:02:46.:02:50.

threatens former Cold War enemies, Russia and Nato countries alike It

:02:51.:02:55.

may sound surprising now, btt prior to the Arab Spring, in 2011, neither

:02:56.:03:03.

Syria nor Yemen were areas of concern on this fragile status. This

:03:04.:03:07.

perhaps illustrates both how rapidly a state can deteriorate, but also

:03:08.:03:13.

the rate at which insurgencx can come up. As we have seen with the

:03:14.:03:21.

rise of Isil. Terror groups like Isil, or Al-Qaeda, thrive in areas

:03:22.:03:27.

were weak or failed states, like those, have the inability to

:03:28.:03:30.

confront and defeat them. The government has rightly chosdn to

:03:31.:03:35.

help these failing states, tackling instability, and helping people

:03:36.:03:38.

affected by conflict. It is not just at the right thing to do for these

:03:39.:03:41.

people and their countries, it is also a way being our own cotntry

:03:42.:03:44.

safe, secure, and prosperous. This is why our commitment is so vital.

:03:45.:03:55.

It is directly in the international community's interest to prevent the

:03:56.:03:58.

states from failing, to prevent the breeding grounds from these terror

:03:59.:04:02.

groups, from forming in the first instance. If achievable, prdvention

:04:03.:04:06.

is better, easier, and cheaper than your. Equally, it would be dntirely

:04:07.:04:12.

long but short-sighted to assume that establish states in thd Middle

:04:13.:04:17.

East could go back to the w`rfare, and that these must be desphte used

:04:18.:04:19.

in the combat of Isil. Between Iran and the united Arab

:04:20.:04:33.

emirates. Few locations in the world drive in the Straits for

:04:34.:04:41.

international trade and prosperity for its tactical vulnerabilhty. As

:04:42.:04:47.

recently as 2011, a brand friend who -- Iran. Was only through the timely

:04:48.:04:54.

joint intervention of the Royal Navy that the US Navy, the French Navy,

:04:55.:04:58.

and the sheer amount of nav`l hardware in the area that the

:04:59.:05:02.

situation was prevented frol escalating further and prevdnting a

:05:03.:05:07.

global oil crisis. Earlier this year, and a clear violation of UN

:05:08.:05:11.

Security Council, ban on ballistic missile tests, Iran tested ` mere

:05:12.:05:17.

range ballistic missile. Dismissal are capable of caring warhe`ds.

:05:18.:05:22.

There have been participating in intensive talks about the Islamic

:05:23.:05:26.

Republic's nuclear programmd for than last two years to negotiate

:05:27.:05:32.

permanent nuclear agreement. The joint comprehensive plan of action,

:05:33.:05:35.

signed in Vienna on the 14th of July, was built on a foundation of

:05:36.:05:38.

verification, and for that foundation of verification to be so

:05:39.:05:43.

successful, ask us for the international atomic energy agencies

:05:44.:05:46.

that is monitoring nuclear `nd military sites in Iran, must be

:05:47.:05:50.

automatic, and a brand cannot be allowed to stonewall the crhsis to

:05:51.:05:59.

suspect sites. It is uncert`in than even five years ago, and in order to

:06:00.:06:03.

combat the growing level of threats as a country, we must utilise and

:06:04.:06:10.

leverage our extensive network of soft power to prevent fragile states

:06:11.:06:14.

from failing. The UK is second only to the United States and thd amount

:06:15.:06:18.

of money provided for international development. Should have evdry

:06:19.:06:23.

opportunity and in -- encourage our international allies to meet their

:06:24.:06:27.

goals on international development, and I'm in no doubt that thhs will

:06:28.:06:31.

make the world a safer placd. But ultimately, soft power potency is

:06:32.:06:37.

continent on the existence, ability, and will to deploy our power when

:06:38.:06:42.

necessary. Had not intervendd in Iraq, had we not taken action

:06:43.:06:46.

against the advance of Isil, and the direct request of the democratically

:06:47.:06:50.

elected government of Iraq, it is possible that the Iraqi govdrnment

:06:51.:06:54.

could have failed in seconds to push back Isil, and the situation in the

:06:55.:06:57.

region would not be significantly worse, with more people subject to

:06:58.:07:01.

the brutality of Isil. Let's not forget that this is a group that

:07:02.:07:07.

both prisoners of war, pushds is the block buildings, makes sexu`l slaves

:07:08.:07:13.

of 12-year-old girls, a grotp that beheaded aid workers, publicly torch

:07:14.:07:16.

is religious presence of errors and to journalists. This is

:07:17.:07:20.

ideologically connected to religious genocide. Death. If we, stand up for

:07:21.:07:27.

them, for those who cannot, then what do we stand for? Thank you I

:07:28.:07:40.

want to concentrate on the possible effectiveness of air strikes against

:07:41.:07:45.

Daesh and Syria. Let me start by looking at Daesh's military force.

:07:46.:07:57.

Current Daesh was set up by a man who established the so-calldd

:07:58.:08:04.

worldwide caliphate on the 29th of June, 2014. I understand from my

:08:05.:08:11.

friends that Daesh terrorists are extremely well-trained, and my

:08:12.:08:16.

contacts say that training courses are sophisticated, and last at least

:08:17.:08:26.

three months. Weapon training, rages from pistols to anti-aircraft

:08:27.:08:30.

weapons, and obviously some people can drive tanks. Daesh has further

:08:31.:08:36.

strengthened its military c`pability by capturing large quantitids and

:08:37.:08:44.

varieties of weapons, from places. It is improved its capacity to carry

:08:45.:08:50.

out subsequent operations, `nd obtain even more equipment. Its

:08:51.:08:58.

weaponry now includes 254 t`nks and I know how potent they are, because

:08:59.:09:02.

I was struck by one in my own armed vehicle. T 72 news, and M1 @brams.

:09:03.:09:10.

It includes armoured cars and Humvees, surface to air missiles, BM

:09:11.:09:17.

21, which used to be called stolen toward, guns as well as anth-tank

:09:18.:09:23.

missiles such as stingers. Said Daesh, is no pushover. Which

:09:24.:09:30.

explains why some of the forces raged against it have not m`de

:09:31.:09:40.

better progress. We are abott to consider extending Royal Air Force

:09:41.:09:44.

combat operations to includd Syria, as well as a rack. -- the r`ck. --

:09:45.:09:51.

the rock. There is no line between Ir`n and

:09:52.:10:02.

Syria. Military orthodoxy are way states that words cannot be one from

:10:03.:10:08.

the air, and that the enemy must be beaten on the ground. I agrde, but

:10:09.:10:11.

let me just ponder that for a moment. We won the air camp`ign in

:10:12.:10:17.

the Battle of Britain in 1940, and saved our country from invasion by

:10:18.:10:22.

Nazi Germany, but remember next that Churchill made a point of a

:10:23.:10:27.

pact with Stalin against Hitler Today, should we not considdr

:10:28.:10:32.

opening a dialogue with President Assad regime, to defeat Daesh, which

:10:33.:10:39.

is enemy to both Syria, the United Kingdom, and indeed the whole world.

:10:40.:10:48.

Excuse me. My paper is all over the place. In 1999, because of `

:10:49.:10:55.

campaigns, airpower was crucial We need ground troops as well. Airpower

:10:56.:11:04.

want it. In 2011, talked -- colleagues will remember thd

:11:05.:11:08.

inhabitants of Benghazi and Libya were saving from having thehr

:11:09.:11:12.

throats cut, as promised by Colonel Gadhafi from the air. Obviotsly it

:11:13.:11:20.

went wrong from there. In 2014, Daesh forces were prevented from

:11:21.:11:24.

advancing and taking Baghdad in a rock. Mainly by US air power. The

:11:25.:11:31.

troops were needed then. Today, Daesh's has essentially sevdrely

:11:32.:11:37.

constrained within its terrhtory any force it consecrates could dasily be

:11:38.:11:45.

identified and destroyed by our air power. Remember, the Royal @ir Force

:11:46.:11:50.

now contributes 30% of the intelligence about Syria. Mhlitary

:11:51.:11:55.

campaigns are fought in phases. I accept that the first milit`ry phase

:11:56.:12:03.

in beating Daesh may well bd to destroy all civilian activities from

:12:04.:12:09.

the air. Then soldiers come up with rivals, need to exploit that

:12:10.:12:15.

advantage. I hope such forcds come from Middle East countries. But I

:12:16.:12:19.

would not bet on it in the dnd. Finally, I believe that to destroy

:12:20.:12:27.

Daesh, in Syria, and indeed Iraq, we need to work with the governments of

:12:28.:12:34.

Syria and Iraq, and we may `lso at some stage need to use our own armed

:12:35.:12:40.

forces as well. Because thex may be needed to protect our country by

:12:41.:12:45.

operating in the Middle East yet again. Binky. --. -- thank xou.

:12:46.:13:00.

We will be extending -- dechding on extending air strikes in Syria in

:13:01.:13:09.

the coming days. He pointed out the complexities of the region, the many

:13:10.:13:14.

fact -- benefactors in regions that need to be considered when

:13:15.:13:16.

discussing the Middle East, and that he also made a very compellhng case

:13:17.:13:21.

for the need for a comprehensive strategy around the Middle Dast for

:13:22.:13:26.

the government to work on and bring forward. So we have had a vdry long

:13:27.:13:32.

and the debate today, 29 contributions in all, and m`ny more

:13:33.:13:36.

interventions. All of the m`king important points, and I do just want

:13:37.:13:41.

to do justice to do a few points in the short time I got a bill`ble At

:13:42.:13:46.

this point I also just wantdd to mention the Honorable member who is

:13:47.:13:52.

not here tonight, from Ilford South, who is a former Dunn who has taken

:13:53.:14:01.

ill in the last few days, and is in hospital, and I'm sure all of us

:14:02.:14:04.

will want to send our best wishes to him, as I know he would verx much

:14:05.:14:08.

like to be here, taking part in this debate topic quite understandably,

:14:09.:14:12.

the focus of the debate tod`y has been mainly on Syria, and the

:14:13.:14:16.

prospects of military action, and I too just want to talk about Syria,

:14:17.:14:20.

but firstly I want to mention the other important issues that have

:14:21.:14:23.

been raised in this debate, which is a week -- as we recall, is the UK

:14:24.:14:28.

role in the Middle East. Sahd turning to Israel and Palestine it

:14:29.:14:32.

is unusual to have a debate in the Middle East where Israel and

:14:33.:14:36.

Palestine is not the main focus But we have had important contrhbutions

:14:37.:14:42.

tonight, from the Honorable member from our church, up Minster, from

:14:43.:14:52.

Hammersmith, the Honorable lember from Twickenham. About how hmportant

:14:53.:14:57.

Israel and Palestine is to this region. We all know that thdre are

:14:58.:15:01.

currently no peace talks at the moment, and there seems to be very

:15:02.:15:05.

little prospect of a return to negotiations in the short-tdrm. And

:15:06.:15:10.

I agreed with the contributhon for the Honorable member from Edinburgh

:15:11.:15:15.

East, who speaks the SNP, who said that the government needs to do all

:15:16.:15:19.

it can to urge a return to the negotiating table. And calls on all

:15:20.:15:24.

politicians, on all sides of this house to reach out to be le`ders in

:15:25.:15:28.

both Israel and Palestine, `nd ask them not to take steps which will

:15:29.:15:32.

make a return to negotiations harder to achieve, and this means `n end to

:15:33.:15:37.

blockade and occupation, and an end to rocket and terror attacks. Yemen

:15:38.:15:41.

was also raised in contributions from the Honorable member from

:15:42.:15:45.

Hammersmith, if Kilbride, and of course my right are boyfriend from

:15:46.:15:51.

Leicester East, who chairs on Yemen. He reminded the Housd that

:15:52.:15:55.

Syria is not the only ongoing civil war in the region, nor is it the

:15:56.:16:01.

only conflict within the norm is an humanitarian cost. The situ`tion in

:16:02.:16:04.

the region, nor is it the only conflict within the norm is an

:16:05.:16:09.

humanitarian cost. The situ`tion Yemen Which is becoming, as we have

:16:10.:16:12.

heard, increasingly hard to get to those in need topic I want to

:16:13.:16:15.

reiterate the opposition's called for in the -- called to

:16:16.:16:20.

negotiations, and the UK government doing everything it can to hnclude

:16:21.:16:25.

both sides to participate in peace talks, in good faith. Also, it is

:16:26.:16:31.

important that we have a full investigation into allegations that

:16:32.:16:35.

Coalition forces have broken into international law, during their

:16:36.:16:40.

action in Yemen. The Secret`ry of State originally supported this

:16:41.:16:42.

idea, but then it appears the government had you turned. H'm still

:16:43.:16:46.

seeking an explanation from the government about why this is

:16:47.:16:49.

happened. We also had contrhbutions on Saudi Arabia, from the Honorable

:16:50.:16:55.

members from Glasgow South, Shrewsbury, and when -- another

:16:56.:16:59.

office. They all pointed out the role of Saudi Arabia as key in the

:17:00.:17:03.

region, and how important it is in the role it is playing in both Yemen

:17:04.:17:06.

and Syria. My right honourable friend from the opposition has

:17:07.:17:12.

raised human rights abuses hn Saudi Arabia. It is a great concern to us

:17:13.:17:18.

all that there have already been a executions this year. We also need

:17:19.:17:22.

to ensure that we are working with the salaries to ensure that this

:17:23.:17:26.

stops, the flow of funding `nd support in Daesh. Closing down the

:17:27.:17:30.

funding stream can be as important as military action, and we need the

:17:31.:17:36.

cooperation of the Saudis on this. Iran was also mentioned as ` crucial

:17:37.:17:42.

region, particularly in the speeches from Stratford-upon-Avon, and as a

:17:43.:17:49.

key backer of Assad, Iran whll be crucial in enabling politic`l

:17:50.:17:51.

solutions to the Civil War hn Syria, which will be a prerequisitd for any

:17:52.:17:56.

defeat of Isil, Daesh. Was notable last week that the Prime Minister

:17:57.:18:01.

highlighted improved directhons with Iran, and that is a key reason for

:18:02.:18:05.

optimism on prospects, of a diplomatic breakthrough, at the

:18:06.:18:08.

Vienna talks. This follows from the vital nuclear deal, which is last

:18:09.:18:13.

year. This deal applies to sanctions, which were discussed by

:18:14.:18:17.

this house last week, and I would like to reiterate the comments of my

:18:18.:18:24.

right honourable friend, thd member the shadow minister, and welcoming

:18:25.:18:27.

this agreement, and congrattlating all of those who have strivdd to

:18:28.:18:32.

make it possible, including Baroness Ashton, and a former member of this

:18:33.:18:37.

house. We also had a contribution for the Honorable member from South

:18:38.:18:43.

Derbyshire, which is import`nt about the persecution of Christians in the

:18:44.:18:47.

region, and of the minoritids. Just turning now to Syria and thd few

:18:48.:18:51.

moments that I have left. I think that many asked her -- excellent

:18:52.:18:57.

contributions on this. Which the members of this house are rdflecting

:18:58.:19:01.

on the very difficult and complex situation in Syria. We started with

:19:02.:19:08.

the great expertise and knowledge of my Honorable friend from Brhdgend

:19:09.:19:11.

who spoke of great knowledgd as a member of the Defense select

:19:12.:19:15.

committee, and her role as the chair of the eight PPG on the RAF. I do

:19:16.:19:20.

not have time to read knowlddge of the important points that wdre made,

:19:21.:19:24.

but it is clear that many mdmbers from both sides of the Housd are

:19:25.:19:29.

still actively considering the case for extending bombing. It is also

:19:30.:19:33.

clear that members are doing this in good faith. And that we havd the

:19:34.:19:37.

right to expect more inform`tion from the government, before being

:19:38.:19:41.

asked to vote on it. In his remarks earlier, the Minister did rdspond to

:19:42.:19:48.

several of the points that were made, and unfortunately he spoke

:19:49.:19:52.

halfway through the debate, that arose in the second part of the

:19:53.:19:56.

debate, and I know that he had to make many interventions to deal with

:19:57.:20:01.

those point. The Prime Minister what he had to make many interventions to

:20:02.:20:05.

deal with those point. The Prime Minister action against Isil, Daesh,

:20:06.:20:08.

to the House, and I welcomed his statement he made last week copy and

:20:09.:20:12.

also the excellent select committee report, which the Prime Minhster

:20:13.:20:15.

responded to, but I do not think that this is the end of the debate.

:20:16.:20:19.

There are several areas where the government needs to provide more

:20:20.:20:21.

detail, and the number of those points were raised against tonight

:20:22.:20:25.

stopping to take for exampld, the issue of ground troops, and this was

:20:26.:20:35.

raised by the Honorable members Hammersmith, and other placds. Last

:20:36.:20:40.

week, the Prime Minister gave us a figure of 70,000 marchers -,

:20:41.:20:45.

moderate opposition fighters, but he did not elaborate in detail on which

:20:46.:20:48.

groups these fighters represented, where they were located, and what

:20:49.:20:53.

contact if any had been madd with these groups studied a searhng

:20:54.:20:56.

expert at the Brookings Institute, supported the government's dstimate

:20:57.:21:02.

of 70,000 fighters, but disputed as to how to moderate some of these

:21:03.:21:05.

groups really are. He also `rgued that to reach 70,000 fighters, he

:21:06.:21:09.

needed to combine at least ten groups, which have different

:21:10.:21:13.

agendas, and are dispersed `round the country. Many are currently

:21:14.:21:17.

focusing their efforts on the battle with Assad. The government need to

:21:18.:21:21.

explain in which greater detail how these forces are going to bd used,

:21:22.:21:26.

to defeat Isil and Daesh. And how the efforts will be courted native

:21:27.:21:29.

with air strikes, I'm going to come to my conclusion now. Which is this

:21:30.:21:33.

whole and if the Prime Minister is serious about consensus, he needs to

:21:34.:21:42.

get a proper debate were all these points can addressed. As of now has

:21:43.:21:49.

been announced on the BBC, we're likely to debate on the Prile

:21:50.:21:53.

Minister question Time on Wddnesday, and be asked to vote that d`y,

:21:54.:21:56.

despite the Leader of the Opposition having asked for two days, so

:21:57.:22:00.

everyone who wants to contrhbute, and ask questions can be

:22:01.:22:03.

accommodated copy as the Minister said, in his remarks, there is a

:22:04.:22:07.

duty to scrutinize, but there is also an effort to allow that

:22:08.:22:11.

scrutiny to take place. At the government is serious about allowing

:22:12.:22:16.

a proper debate on serious strategy to beat Isil Daesh, to promote

:22:17.:22:22.

security, and to promote pe`ceful peak -- future for the Middle East,

:22:23.:22:25.

we need is full and thorough scrutiny in this house before we

:22:26.:22:29.

vote, and on that question, I hope that the Minister might think again

:22:30.:22:34.

and allow the extended debate that we need. We have heard many

:22:35.:22:47.

outstanding contributions today from all parts of the House.

:22:48.:22:52.

Particularly I would like to think and minister and shadow minhster for

:22:53.:22:55.

their contributions, and I lentioned a couple of colleagues who lade a

:22:56.:23:03.

thoughtful contribution, and the member from South Derby Shire in

:23:04.:23:07.

reference to the need to protect people in the Middle East. @nd get

:23:08.:23:16.

contributions from other melbers who made important contributions about

:23:17.:23:20.

the need to think about all of the challenges that we face, all of the

:23:21.:23:26.

ongoing civil wars, all of the difficulties, and complexithes that

:23:27.:23:30.

I alluded to earlier. I think his contribution was important to this

:23:31.:23:34.

powerful speech. I hope the government will listen. I'm sure you

:23:35.:23:41.

would agree that this debatd has been timely, and I think he would

:23:42.:23:49.

also agree with me that a monthly debate is a minimum, a day ` month

:23:50.:23:58.

on a foreign policy issue would be I think, welcomed by the great

:23:59.:24:02.

majority of people in this chamber. It is long overdue that we have

:24:03.:24:06.

addressed the issue of our `pproach to the Middle East, and one could

:24:07.:24:11.

argue the same could be madd for our approach to China, India, South

:24:12.:24:15.

America, and the list goes on. I encourage those people who hold the

:24:16.:24:19.

power to make that decision too will allocate a day per month for us to

:24:20.:24:24.

discuss these things, to brhng it about as soon as possible. Hf you

:24:25.:24:30.

allow me, I want to close this debate, somewhat differentlx. I do

:24:31.:24:34.

not have enough time to ask, and on every single contribution, that has

:24:35.:24:40.

been made, and I think therd've been many made in this debate to be

:24:41.:24:44.

forgive me, colleagues, for not mentioning those individually. I

:24:45.:24:49.

would like to close this debate slightly differently. Over the

:24:50.:24:56.

weekend, an acquaintance of mine sent me a photograph, and it was a

:24:57.:25:03.

photograph of the kiss, which had been superimposed, and it w`s rather

:25:04.:25:10.

impressive, the way devastated, a bullet ridden building, somdwhere in

:25:11.:25:14.

Syria. The man behind it, a Syrian born artist, said that his hntention

:25:15.:25:22.

had been to draw a parallel between the greatest achievements of

:25:23.:25:27.

humanity, with the destructhon it has also capable of inflicthng. I

:25:28.:25:32.

would encourage you all to find this picture online. If we are looking

:25:33.:25:41.

for a goal, at the end of this difficult foreign policy path, we

:25:42.:25:44.

appear to be now walking down, I think it should be this: In the

:25:45.:25:51.

future, art galleries should be open across the Middle East in all

:25:52.:26:01.

places, in all cities, in which the original clip campaign beside

:26:02.:26:07.

equivalent Middle Eastern art, and everyone in the region, men and

:26:08.:26:12.

women, would be visiting, admiring, and enjoying those works of art If

:26:13.:26:20.

we could achieve that, it would demonstrate success on so m`ny

:26:21.:26:28.

levels. Is a very welcome coincidence that a copy of `n

:26:29.:26:36.

Austrian artist's work evoc`tively reproduced in a war-torn location in

:26:37.:26:41.

Syria helps demonstrate the Vienna process, should ultimately be about.

:26:42.:26:44.

Thank you. Order! The question is did this

:26:45.:26:55.

house consider the UK's rold in the middle east. IMac? I think the eyes

:26:56.:27:13.

have it -- ayes. Any of the opinions they ayes? I think the ayes habit.

:27:14.:27:21.

We now come to motion number three relating to energy and clim`te

:27:22.:27:32.

change. I beg to move. Ayes? The ayes habit. I beg to move that the

:27:33.:27:45.

House... I think the -- I bdg that this House do now adorn. I `m very

:27:46.:27:57.

grateful to have the... This debate on the enduring relationship between

:27:58.:28:01.

my country and the country known as the warm heart of Africa, the

:28:02.:28:09.

Republic of Malawi. Including representatives from the Malawi High

:28:10.:28:12.

Commission and the UK High Commission to Malawi. I havd the

:28:13.:28:20.

honour and pleasure of meethng him at the all party group meethng

:28:21.:28:25.

earlier today, to all of thdm I say... You are most welcome on this

:28:26.:28:39.

occasion. Earlier week we cdlebrated the 10th anniversary and on October

:28:40.:28:46.

the civil society network hdlped tend annual General meeting in ten

:28:47.:28:50.

years of cooperation between the countries build a legacy stretching

:28:51.:28:55.

back over 150 years to the time of Doctor David Livingstone. Hd rightly

:28:56.:29:02.

remembered his opposition to the slave trade which is remembdred in a

:29:03.:29:12.

major city of Malawi. Indeed it is difficult to go anywhere in either

:29:13.:29:19.

Scotland or Malawi for organizations that have connections betwedn the

:29:20.:29:22.

two countries. Might connection began slightly over ten years ago as

:29:23.:29:27.

well. I travelled with the church to the northern capital and I felt it

:29:28.:29:35.

was very fitting. And may mx home there with fellow volunteers. As is

:29:36.:29:44.

often the experience of teachers I've felt I learn more for ly

:29:45.:29:50.

students than they did from me. I learned that no matter wherd you go

:29:51.:29:56.

on the world, people are thd same. I taught kids who were evil to learn

:29:57.:30:01.

and kids who just wanted to be outside and spoke with mothdrs and

:30:02.:30:04.

fathers who wanted nothing but the best for their children. I let

:30:05.:30:16.

farmers, bakers, shopkeepers starting their early morning

:30:17.:30:23.

shifts,... What is different is the context. Malawi is one of the

:30:24.:30:32.

poorest countries, 174th out of 100 80 countries. All of those

:30:33.:30:41.

statistics actually represent an improvement on statistics from ten

:30:42.:30:44.

years ago. The difference bdtween Scotland and Malawi is not the

:30:45.:30:48.

desire or ability to have a better life for themselves, but thd

:30:49.:30:51.

opportunities they have to do so. What stands in the way of pdople

:30:52.:30:57.

doing so and Malawi is the decisions, the deep-rooted

:30:58.:31:04.

structural causes, which we in the West have to take responsibhlity

:31:05.:31:12.

for. As world leaders meet hn Paris to talk about climate changd,.. Mr

:31:13.:31:24.

Speaker, can I congratulate the Honorable gentlemen for being

:31:25.:31:28.

successful in his securing this debate but also his attendance today

:31:29.:31:31.

earlier on today when we met with the president. Does he also think

:31:32.:31:36.

that we here in England also have a responsibility to make sure that we

:31:37.:31:40.

are putting investment into Malawi to, which I know incredibly well...

:31:41.:31:48.

And making sure that we takd a serious interest? Scotland's

:31:49.:31:52.

relationship and allow it, but we broke nice bonds of friendship

:31:53.:31:56.

across the UK and in all party group today, the president made a number

:31:57.:32:00.

of useful comments, including the importance of investment and the

:32:01.:32:03.

need of an agreement at the Paris summit in Malawi. -- Paris summit on

:32:04.:32:14.

Malawi. Thank you Mr Speaker I would like to congratulate the Honorable

:32:15.:32:16.

member on this timely debatd, does he agree with me that the Scottish

:32:17.:32:23.

government work on climate hs particularly timely and coinciding

:32:24.:32:32.

with the Paris peace talks? I would like to say something about the

:32:33.:32:35.

climate Justice funds in my remarks later. Tomorrow we will mark world

:32:36.:32:44.

AIDS day in HIV and AIDS art completely preventable dise`ses

:32:45.:32:53.

that... We must ensure that resources and capital gener`ting

:32:54.:33:00.

country must stay in the cotntry. The president rose this in today's

:33:01.:33:12.

meeting. I think the honour`ble gentleman for giving way and the

:33:13.:33:17.

chance to intervene as well. One of the Malawi top government

:33:18.:33:27.

officials... Issued a stern warning against does the honourable

:33:28.:33:31.

gentleman feel that there should be a 0 tolerance... I agree with that

:33:32.:33:41.

and I spoke of didn't need to enhance the civil society and Malawi

:33:42.:33:46.

to help them hold the government and to strengthen the structures of a

:33:47.:33:51.

Malawi democracy itself. And indeed these were raised at the cross party

:33:52.:33:55.

group this morning and His Excellency also spoke on tackling

:33:56.:33:58.

gender inequality and His Excellency also spoke on tackling genddr

:33:59.:34:03.

inequality in the handful of females to be head of state in Africa. The

:34:04.:34:10.

empowerment and education of women and girls... Many of these `s

:34:11.:34:25.

members have constituents who.. 94,000 Scots are involved in

:34:26.:34:32.

partnership activity and thd sister partnership... Would my Honorable

:34:33.:34:40.

friend agree with me that what particularly distinguishes the

:34:41.:34:44.

Malawi Scotland partnership is the dynamic and reciprocal nature of the

:34:45.:34:49.

relationship, more than 150 school wings creating firm wings of

:34:50.:34:53.

friendship and understanding between schools and Malawi and some schools

:34:54.:35:00.

are my own constituencies. H agree with my Honorable friend and I think

:35:01.:35:07.

many constituents would havd similar stories to tell and this particular

:35:08.:35:13.

characteristic of the Scotl`nd Malawi relationship over thd past

:35:14.:35:16.

ten years in the school that I've taught at an Malawi was one of the

:35:17.:35:20.

first bat established that relationship. I think he wotld be

:35:21.:35:28.

particularly interesting to know that caring out the research into

:35:29.:35:32.

the impact on these relationships and how they benefit people in

:35:33.:35:36.

Scotland and Malawi who havd visited each other's countries and what

:35:37.:35:40.

impact they have on the carder and life choices and it would bd

:35:41.:35:45.

interesting to know and it would be... Person-to-person conndctions

:35:46.:35:51.

are a hallmark of the relathonship between Scotland and Malawi, these

:35:52.:35:54.

are not always straightforw`rd and the Minister would be aware that to

:35:55.:35:59.

visit the UK, even those sponsored by the UK Council would be difficult

:36:00.:36:04.

to obtain a visa and it would be interested to hear the government

:36:05.:36:14.

respond to some civil society complaints about the. Sign hn the

:36:15.:36:22.

aftermath in 2005, it connects them to work together, sustainable

:36:23.:36:28.

economic development, health and education and it is an agredment

:36:29.:36:33.

that left on the first Minister to Scotland and three presidents of

:36:34.:36:44.

Malawi. Scotland's longest-serving, perhaps because he is the only so

:36:45.:36:49.

far, international developmdnt minister has also championed the

:36:50.:36:53.

relationship and I know his visit to Malawi in 2013 left Aden impression

:36:54.:36:58.

on him. Over the years the Scottish Government has invested over ?5

:36:59.:37:02.

million in allowing and that is different from the UK investment,

:37:03.:37:07.

though I do know that they like to count it towards the target. 14 ,000

:37:08.:37:17.

children have been prioritised for emergency treatment and new energy

:37:18.:37:21.

access to almost 80,000 people in the most rural parts of the

:37:22.:37:27.

country, to the 3p... I will declare an interest here because before the

:37:28.:37:35.

election I worked for the Scottish Catholic international aid button at

:37:36.:37:39.

which benefited from the Justice fund which my Honorable fridnd

:37:40.:37:45.

referred to, the claimant Jtstice fund takes a printable that we have

:37:46.:37:48.

done the most to cause clim`te change for people in Malawi have

:37:49.:37:54.

Dudleys, but are being impacted first and harder and it just people

:37:55.:38:01.

adapting and overcoming and I've seen the impact of that Bunning

:38:02.:38:04.

which is helping communities and Malawi overcome climate change, such

:38:05.:38:10.

as irrigation as irrigation and sustainable outgrow Colter

:38:11.:38:17.

projects. Would like to pay tribute to two... The centre providds

:38:18.:38:31.

invaluable and innovative mhx of conventional Western medicine along

:38:32.:38:34.

with complementary therapies in a remote area, such as the

:38:35.:38:41.

esteemed... Esteem that the local community has elected her as an

:38:42.:38:47.

independent member and I hope as a member of the Commonwealth realm

:38:48.:38:52.

entry Association I hope I can find a connection with her in th`t

:38:53.:38:55.

capacity. I think these kinds of cultural, enter intercultur`l stages

:38:56.:39:08.

is a hallmark of an what has happened in Malawi over the last ten

:39:09.:39:12.

years and the rising of the former role partnership. Is like a thousand

:39:13.:39:20.

flowers to bloom. The second project I want to mention is the trtst

:39:21.:39:26.

founded by one of my fellow volunteers who travelled with me and

:39:27.:39:30.

Malawi in 2004 but has never quite found the will to leave for any

:39:31.:39:36.

significant length of time `nd she has dedicated herself to help

:39:37.:39:42.

education. Earlier today shd sent me a video of the pupils of th`t school

:39:43.:39:47.

singing Scotland's national anthem, just in time for Saint Andrdws Bay.

:39:48.:39:52.

I will endeavour to share this clip on social media so you Mr Speaker

:39:53.:39:56.

and other members can enjoy the clip that sums up the special

:39:57.:40:01.

relationship between Scotland and Malawi and I am particularlx

:40:02.:40:05.

grateful that you chose to remain in the chair here and you take your

:40:06.:40:15.

interest in international... In recognition of the girls le`rning

:40:16.:40:21.

the national anthem of Scotland let me finish with the words of

:40:22.:40:28.

Malawi's national anthem. In English, God bless Malawi. O God

:40:29.:40:38.

bless the land of Malawi, ptt down each and every enemy, join together

:40:39.:40:42.

all our hearts as one and wd be free from fear. Bless our leader, each

:40:43.:40:48.

and every one, and mother M`lawi. Elementary undersecretary of state.

:40:49.:40:55.

Thank you very much Mr Speaker and what a veritable challenge for some

:40:56.:41:05.

of the quotes, I hope I can be. . I wish I had the foresight to prepare

:41:06.:41:11.

to be quite so challenging. This debate on Scotland and Malawi

:41:12.:41:14.

relations is particularly thmely, firstly for the reasons mentioned.

:41:15.:41:21.

The presidents earning an official visit to the UK, and joining the

:41:22.:41:30.

global African investment stop Dunn Summit later. Happy Saint Andrews

:41:31.:41:41.

Day for the vast members who came to support the Honorable member for

:41:42.:41:45.

Glasgow North, no doubt reflecting the importance of the Malawh

:41:46.:41:52.

Scotland relationship, but `lso the highest esteemed that Hill holds in

:41:53.:41:55.

his house more generally. I am delighted today that my right

:41:56.:41:59.

honourable friend first Scotland, and I met with the foreign linister

:42:00.:42:04.

to reinforce the relationshhp of Scotland working with Malawh. I know

:42:05.:42:08.

you had a line to my long-standing interest in Malawi and... H`d a wide

:42:09.:42:18.

ranging discussion. Malawi hs also close to my heart, my wife went to

:42:19.:42:28.

school Malawi, my brother-in-law was born in the hospital. When H married

:42:29.:42:32.

my long-suffering wife, we decided to honeymoon in part there, while

:42:33.:42:50.

travelling around Zimbabwe. By matching themselves up with business

:42:51.:42:54.

consultants to offer advice, structured advice, over the phone

:42:55.:42:58.

and I helped over 12 sessions on the phone with a lady who was rtnning a

:42:59.:43:08.

wonderful business and Malawi, called body hugging fashions. I was

:43:09.:43:15.

also temporarily vice president vice chairman, of the Malawh group,

:43:16.:43:21.

and I know from reports frol the Malawian High Commissioner, who I am

:43:22.:43:26.

sure is listening somewhere to this debate, the president very luch

:43:27.:43:29.

enjoyed meeting members of the group and was very pleased with the

:43:30.:43:34.

hospitality you are able to offer as well and that was very much

:43:35.:43:37.

appreciated, Mr Speaker. I `m delighted that this debate hs taking

:43:38.:43:42.

place the UK has a historic and deep bilateral relationship with Malawi.

:43:43.:43:48.

They have responsibility for foreign affairs, within this broader

:43:49.:43:51.

framework, there is a speci`l relationship between Scotland and

:43:52.:43:55.

Malawi and we should all in this house cherish that relationship The

:43:56.:43:59.

debate on Scottish Parliament on the 11th of November to mark thd 10th

:44:00.:44:03.

anniversary of the Scotland,Malawi cooperation agreement. The cross

:44:04.:44:11.

party support that that rel`tionship has. In my mind Mr Speaker, there

:44:12.:44:15.

are three components to the relationship, firstly the hhstory.

:44:16.:44:23.

Start when -- Scotland... Not just the lives of these words,

:44:24.:44:27.

missionaries, it traders, doctors and teachers, from the largdst

:44:28.:44:34.

Malala in church and Scottish roots to some of the nation's most

:44:35.:44:39.

historic and impressive buildings, to the very name as the honourable

:44:40.:44:44.

gentleman mentioned, of the largest city. Scotland's links are very much

:44:45.:44:48.

evidence in Malawi today. Sdcondly, the links to people. Secondly, the

:44:49.:44:54.

links to people. I would like to pay tribute to some of the work that has

:44:55.:44:58.

been done, certainly in the Scotland Malawi ridership to build on the

:44:59.:45:03.

historic link. I noticed thd honourable gentleman himself lived

:45:04.:45:09.

and worked in Malawi and I believe that we were in Malawi at the same

:45:10.:45:16.

time wallahs honeymooning, but did not reach the further reachds of

:45:17.:45:22.

Malawi which with my own fedling, it came to complete the sitcom friends

:45:23.:45:27.

of Zimbabwe. There are many other people, the honourable gentleman in

:45:28.:45:29.

the Honorable Lady made refdrence to the connecting classrooms stopping I

:45:30.:45:42.

also am to see the impacts this has an I give way to the Honorable Lady.

:45:43.:45:46.

I wonder if you would join le in talking about... Who just rdturned

:45:47.:45:56.

from Malawi where they spent a week painting schools and working in

:45:57.:46:00.

local communities and cementing printer between the countrids. I

:46:01.:46:06.

have no hesitation in congr`tulating them on their excellent work and

:46:07.:46:09.

would like to find out more about that if the honourable lady has some

:46:10.:46:12.

time to tell me about the programme and be work that particular school

:46:13.:46:18.

did. I have quite a lot to cover, but I am grateful for the honourable

:46:19.:46:21.

gentleman for his contributhon. I have quite a lot to cover, but I am

:46:22.:46:24.

grateful for the honourable gentleman for his contributhons Is

:46:25.:46:28.

my honourable friend aware that Saint Andrews has... And dods an

:46:29.:46:31.

enormous amount to send people out there to help them develop their

:46:32.:46:38.

health care? A timely intervention, the honourable gentleman knows that

:46:39.:46:42.

my father-in-law is in his constituency, the same fathdr law

:46:43.:46:44.

who worked in Malawi and I know he is a governor of one of the schools

:46:45.:46:48.

and Malawi, so I do not know if that was as schools and Malawi, so I do

:46:49.:46:51.

not know if that was as accrued his pitch of his involvement in another,

:46:52.:46:57.

but I'd will come both schools implements and in other places

:46:58.:47:00.

across the United Kingdom, ht is important in developing those people

:47:01.:47:03.

links so the relationship is strong in the future as we have sedn in the

:47:04.:47:09.

past. The third link is the government link, we are celdbrating

:47:10.:47:13.

the 10th anniversary of the cooperation agreement that was set

:47:14.:47:19.

up by the great friend of M`lawi, and I thank him and the -- hn the

:47:20.:47:26.

other place in all the work but in and that relationship. The Scottish

:47:27.:47:31.

Parliament also has an active relationship with the Malawhan

:47:32.:47:37.

Parliament. The respective development programmes have been

:47:38.:47:40.

backed up with high-level vhsits, in both directions, which I thhnk is an

:47:41.:47:44.

absolute important point th`t has been made earlier on today. The

:47:45.:47:50.

honourable member for Glasgow North also mentioned climate change, the

:47:51.:47:54.

impact of climate change on the poorest Malawians is a problem of

:47:55.:47:59.

great magnitude and calls on average for all of us to do something. If

:48:00.:48:08.

there was a 21 million sterling programme, and that is putthng

:48:09.:48:10.

individuals and indeed commtnities as a whole am allowing, mithgating

:48:11.:48:15.

against the effects of clim`te change through small-scale or

:48:16.:48:24.

accretion, conservation, ch`nging agricultural practices. Devdloping

:48:25.:48:29.

that resistance so when problems do strike communities are readx to help

:48:30.:48:37.

themselves. He will know about the disaster is floods in Rwand`, and

:48:38.:48:41.

Malawi of January of last ydar, we do not know of course what caused

:48:42.:48:47.

those floods but they are more frequent in that region, possibly

:48:48.:48:50.

because of climate change so does he agree with me that it is imperative

:48:51.:48:53.

for nations like Malawi that we agree in Paris that we will solution

:48:54.:49:00.

that will lead as of this t`rget weather across Africa? It is

:49:01.:49:06.

absolutely essential that any agreement that comes out of Paris

:49:07.:49:13.

does appreciate the situation is changing and is particularlx

:49:14.:49:18.

impactful on countries like Malawi who are particularly adversdly

:49:19.:49:23.

affected and early indications of progress in Paris is good. There is

:49:24.:49:31.

still a long way to go. Her Majesty's government actively

:49:32.:49:35.

encourages the bonds that exist between the two countries. H am sure

:49:36.:49:50.

the High Commissioner will be open to further suggestions on how we can

:49:51.:49:54.

work together, going forward. We have supported the United Khngdom

:49:55.:50:06.

government, visits to Malawh,. The honourable gentleman mentioned

:50:07.:50:09.

problems of visas I will appreciate... I will not go into to

:50:10.:50:15.

manage detail on individual cases but I will make suggestions on how

:50:16.:50:22.

systems can be grouped, UK visas are responsible for making the `ctual

:50:23.:50:27.

decisions each year. It is ` difficult job, that requires a

:50:28.:50:34.

balance. Our immigration rules apply doubly for every visa applicant and

:50:35.:50:37.

statistics show in relation to Malawi, 80% of allow is for visit

:50:38.:50:49.

visas were issued and that hs well above international and reghonal

:50:50.:50:55.

averages. So I think they are in a good place for these is being

:50:56.:51:00.

processed and accepted and similar statistics in relation to the time

:51:01.:51:05.

it has taken, compares to otr targets in global and... We

:51:06.:51:11.

recognise the important work that is still to be done, in partictlar in

:51:12.:51:17.

Scotland is working and credibly hard. The work is driven not only

:51:18.:51:23.

out in Malawi, not only in London but also... In which cases the UK is

:51:24.:51:30.

one of Malawi's one of the largest development partners in terls of

:51:31.:51:37.

global impact and they are `n excellent team and one that I have

:51:38.:51:41.

visited in the past. UK Govdrnment is committed to ensuring th`t every

:51:42.:51:45.

pound of UK money is spent with the intended results and maintahns a 0

:51:46.:51:50.

tolerance towards corruption. We are concerned about the weaknesses in

:51:51.:51:54.

Malawi and financial managelent system, uncovered by the cash gate

:51:55.:51:59.

scandal which saw the fats of funds intended for the people of Lalawi by

:52:00.:52:04.

politicians and civil servants. In concert with other donors wd'd

:52:05.:52:10.

decided to stop provide fin`ncial aid directly to the Malawian

:52:11.:52:14.

government in 2013 but it is important to note that whild we

:52:15.:52:17.

cannot work through the govdrnment system come the UK contenders Boult

:52:18.:52:21.

continues to work with the government and Malawian people. The

:52:22.:52:28.

UK government operates ?80 lillion of bilateral aid programme of 6 14

:52:29.:52:39.

and 2015, and other... Throtgh civil Society research and other channel.

:52:40.:52:47.

Scotland and the UK's relathonship more generally with Malawi hnvolves

:52:48.:52:52.

being there when Malawi facds difficult times, unfortunatdly

:52:53.:52:55.

difficult times have been all too common. Recently, mobilised to

:52:56.:53:03.

provide for .1 million support to address the floods that the

:53:04.:53:08.

honourable gentleman raised earlier and released in a further ?00

:53:09.:53:12.

million in October two we'd be eight food shortages facing nearlx 3

:53:13.:53:18.

million people with contingdncy planning for this year's El Nino. To

:53:19.:53:27.

stimulate growth markets, jobs, and incomes for all its citizens, the

:53:28.:53:31.

government is working with the Malawian government to improve the

:53:32.:53:35.

business environment and his diversification of Malawian's export

:53:36.:53:36.

market. From one heavily supported by eight

:53:37.:53:51.

donors and state to one driven more through private sector investment

:53:52.:53:56.

and injured Perenara ship that a seat in others amongst the country

:53:57.:54:04.

-- entrepreneurship. I would like to congratulate the Minister and paid

:54:05.:54:09.

tribute to my constituency `nd the work, when he agree with me that it

:54:10.:54:16.

is important that in the and right across the developing world, there

:54:17.:54:23.

are champions for women small - women's's small businesses `nd

:54:24.:54:31.

business ventures for women? I agree and sometimes when I am looking

:54:32.:54:34.

around businesses and women within the family are some of the lost

:54:35.:54:41.

entrepreneurial of individu`ls, sometimes it is not even recognised

:54:42.:54:44.

in their own communities, btt they are actually the underlying business

:54:45.:54:50.

driver and income producer for the family. That is something that has

:54:51.:54:55.

been my experience in Malawh, in particular. I think particularly,

:54:56.:55:01.

smaller businesses and transitional businesses, we need to provhde more

:55:02.:55:09.

support to so moving on to bring her ship to a more formalized

:55:10.:55:13.

taxpaying, employment gener`ting activity is exactly the right way

:55:14.:55:18.

forward and I am sure Malawhan women, as African women will be at

:55:19.:55:23.

the forefront and leaving the men sadly behind. Finally in thd final

:55:24.:55:28.

minutes, it is important to reiterate that this is a

:55:29.:55:31.

partnership, it is not a ond-way relationship. Malawi is a vhbrant

:55:32.:55:36.

country with a warm heart in the middle of Africa, named throughout

:55:37.:55:41.

the region as a land of peace. Sometimes in a troubled

:55:42.:55:47.

neighbourhood. Malawi has bden a good friend to Scotland in the UK

:55:48.:55:51.

and we are keen to support over the years to come. Malawian soldiers for

:55:52.:55:55.

example have paid an enormots role in peacekeeping... In the M`lawian

:55:56.:56:09.

diaspora... Let us remember for all of its challenges, Mr Speakdr,

:56:10.:56:13.

Malawi and spires of many pdople in Scotland and many people throughout

:56:14.:56:20.

the UK and rightly and as a result of the Honorable member, we

:56:21.:56:24.

celebrate that relationship today. The question in that size do now

:56:25.:56:34.

adjourn. I think the ayes h`bit Order, order.

:56:35.:56:38.

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