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Ten minute rule motion, Mr Norman Lamb. Thank you very much indeed, Mr | :00:07. | :00:16. | |
Speaker. I beg to move at ldast be given to bring in a bill to | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
establish an independent colmission to examine the future of thd | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
National Health Service and the social care system, to take | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
evidence, to report conclushons to Parliament and for connected | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
purposes. Two former secret`ries of State for health, one Labour and one | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
Conservative, and honourabld members from both the Government and | :00:39. | :00:40. | |
opposition benches, have johned with me to call for the Government to | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
establish such a commission. We re also joined by an organisathon | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
called NHS survival, a group of progressive junior doctors, patients | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
and others, now numbering 8000 members, and by Care England, | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
representing social care survivors. The purpose of the commission is to | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
engage with the public, the staff of the NHS, care services and civic | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
society, on the massive challenge the NHS and care services f`ce, with | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
the objective of establishing a long-term new settlement for the NHS | :01:14. | :01:22. | |
and carer. Why is it needed? The NHS and social care face an existential | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
crisis. In the post-war perhod, demand has gone up by 4% evdry year. | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
We all understand the reasons. We're all living longer. The numbdrs of | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
people surviving cancer has increased dramatically. Half of | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
people diagnosed with cancer and I survived. -- half of people | :01:40. | :01:49. | |
diagnosed with cancer now strvive for ten years or more. The numbers | :01:50. | :01:56. | |
surviving other conditions hs set to rise. New medicine has been invented | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
to tackle the underlying catses of genetic diseases. And we sed | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
remarkable advances in surghcal procedure. All of this is a triumph | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
of modern medicine. And of our NHS. It is something we should cdlebrate. | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
For the last five years, thd Coalition Government ensured | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
spending on the NHS was protected. But real terms increases have been | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
marginal. With demand continuing to rise, this has been the toughest | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
financial settlement in the history of the NHS. Meanwhile, soci`l care | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
has been cut in real terms, despite significant increases in deland As | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
we look to the period up to 202 , the widely accepted assessmdnt is | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
that there would be a gap of ?3 billion in the NHS by that date The | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
Government is committed to finding ?10 million, including the hncrease | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
in this financial year, but few experts believe this will bd enough. | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
The health foundation has estimated a gap of ?2 billion in 2020, on top | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
of the ?10 billion commitment. Many others believe the gap will be | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
larger. A reflection of the rapidly deteriorating financial poshtion is | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
shown in the accounts of NHS and foundation trusts, facing a | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
projected 2.2 billion deficht by the end of this financial year. Pension | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
changes announced by the Ch`ncellor are likely to add another ?0 billion | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
to costs. Pressures across the system are very evident. Thd news | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
today that at least 100 GP surgeries applied to stop accepting p`tients | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
because of shortage of doctors is the latest example. The poshtion of | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
social care is perhaps more serious. We respected health foundathon | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
estimates there will be a ?6 billion funding gap by 2020. Without taking | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
into account the increase in the minimum wage. The LGA estim`tes that | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
alone will add ?1 billion to costs by 2020. It also does not t`ke into | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
account the planned increasd in the introduction of the cap on care | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
costs, which the Government has said it is committed to doing in 202 . | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
The Spending Review provision for councils to increase council tax by | :04:12. | :04:22. | |
2% will narrow the gap. But only if every council takes advantage of the | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
new power. The plan for an hncrease in the better care fund will add | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
?1.5 billion, but only in 1820. So, a substantial shortfall rem`ins | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
This means further cuts to social care are inevitable. Simon Stevens, | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
the head of NHS England, makes clear that if you cut social care, it will | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
have an impact on the NHS and that is in effect creates a largd funding | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
gap in the NHS by 2020. Then the projected ?30 billion. So, the | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
situation, based on planned spending in this Parliament, looks | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
unsustainable. Beyond 2020, it just keeps getting more challenghng. It | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
is worth looking at how we compare with other European countrids. In | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
2000, the Prime Minister, then Tony Blair, said the objective of the UK | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
hitting the average EU spend on health by 2006. We now risk drifting | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
further away from that EU average. An analysis shows that of the 2 | :05:19. | :05:27. | |
OECD countries in the EU in 201 , only Slovakia, Hungary, the Czech | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
Republic, Poland and Estoni` spent a lower proportion of GDP on health | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
than the UK. Looking ahead, the picture is just as disturbing. | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
Projected health spending in England, as a proportion of UK GDP, | :05:42. | :05:49. | |
up to 2020-21, shows a declhning share of GDP spent on the NHS. | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
According to the Office for Budget Responsibility, based on thd | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
Government's Spending Review, funding for the Department of Health | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
declines as a percentage of GDP from 6.1%, this year, to just 5 4% | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
in 2021. The position for social care is more dramatic. Given what we | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
know about the electrical rhse in demand, can make any at all to | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
commit a reducing share of GDP to health and care? I fear the | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
consequences of failing to `ddress this funding situation could be very | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
serious. The Government argtes that substantial further efficiency | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
savings could be achieved. Xet, however much we hope that the | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
necessary efficiency changes will be achieved through smart | :06:39. | :06:40. | |
re-engineering of the systel, to deliver better value and better | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
care, the reality around thd country from anecdotal evidence suggests | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
that too often, preventativd services indulge in crisis | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
management. The financial incentives in the system do not help. We have | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
payment for activity in acute hospitals but blocked contr`cts in | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
Community Care and mental hdalth. This ensures rational alloc`tion of | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
resources is distorted. Acute hospitals continue to see increases | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
in income but demand for thdir services also increases, in part | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
because of a failure to invdst in preventive care. Their financial | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
position becomes more perilous, despite the increase in income. It | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
is a vicious circle, that somehow has to be broken. In social care, | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
the anticipated shortfall, with rising demand up to 2020, whll | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
result in more people losing support or support packages becoming more | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
inadequate. We are currentlx witnessing productions and care | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
packages, in my own county of Norfolk, and I suspect it is | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
widespread, there are also serious concerns of significant numbers of | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
providers of social care le`ving the market. There is a sense of the | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
system living on borrowed thme. The unattractive effect of all of this | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
will be that those with mondy will be able to get good care. Those | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
relying on the state will increasingly either get nothing at | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
all or substandard care. And I don't think any of us can toleratd that. | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
None of this also addresses the fact that mental health, desperately | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
needs more investment, desphte the help given in the Spending Review. | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
So, the Government, Mr Speaker, faces a choice. The reality is that | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
the system will either drift into a state of crisis or we can confront | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
the existential challenge now. This transcends narrow party polhtics. We | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
have to decide as a country how much we want to spend on our NHS and care | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
system. What can we do diffdrently to make better use of resources | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
available? Should we considdr, as I propose, two dedicated NHS `nd care | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
tax and give local areas thd ability to vary it? Should we in thd | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
artificial divide between the NHS and social care? We fund He`lth and | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
Social Care through three dhfferent routes, the NHS, local authorities, | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
and the benefits system. Dodsn't make any sense? The NHS, Mr Speaker, | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
commands an extra ordinary level support our country. It is `n | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
amazing demonstration of social solidarity and decency. It hs also | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
the best system in the world, according to the common fund in | :09:16. | :09:22. | |
2014. Yet, we cannot take the survival of the NHS and sochal care | :09:23. | :09:24. | |
services for granted. It's loud claim for a new And | :09:25. | :09:34. | |
beverage commission for the 21st century. The question is thd | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
honourable member have leavd to bring in the bill. As many `s are of | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no the ayes have it. Who | :09:45. | :09:55. | |
will prepare and bring in the rebel? The McLaren, Nick Clegg, Doctor | :09:56. | :10:04. | |
Andrew Murrison, Jim Shannon, Phillip Leigh Ivan Lewis, C`roline | :10:05. | :10:05. | |
Lucas and myself. National Health Service and social | :10:06. | :10:46. | |
care commission Bill. We now come to the main business on opposition day | :10:47. | :10:55. | |
and to the motion in the nale of the Leader of the Opposition on the | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
Universal Credit Work Allow`nce To move the motion I call the shadow | :11:01. | :11:11. | |
secretary of state Mr or Ms Smith. May I start by wishing you ` very | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
happy new year. I wish the same to the ministers and members opposite | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
and all in this house, especially to the secretary of state, who has just | :11:22. | :11:29. | |
joined us. I must say, I am disappointed that it isn't going to | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
be the secretary of state who responds to the opposition hn the | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
debate in the name of my right honourable friend the Leader of the | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
Opposition. I think it is now the second time the secretary of state | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
has failed to address the house went questions have been asked of his | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
department. I am not sure what his excuse is today but I do thhnk it is | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
a shame he is shirking his duty in speaking to the house and pdrhaps we | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
ought to take a listen out of the playbook of his department `nd think | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
about sanctioning the secretary of state if he continues to shhrk work | :12:06. | :12:14. | |
in this fashion. I think it was 600,000 people in the UK sanctioned | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
by Hema last year, some for failing to turn up to a job intervidw, some | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
because they were selling poppies, some for attending the fathdr's | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
funeral, one because they h`d a heart attack. Someone suggested to | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
me and appropriate punishment for the secretary of state may be | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
banning him from the House of Commons campaign for a month or so | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
and force them at last to go and visit a food bank. It is | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
extraordinary though that the secretary of state can't be bothered | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
to defend his pet project of the Universal Credit today. Aha it is | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
beyond the Mac because he thinks he is above asking -- answering | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
questions or perhaps he does agree with me it is now indefensible. The | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
changes we are debating tod`y are amongst the most radical evdr | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
undertaken to Social security. Changes that should have done what | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
the secretary of state orighnally intended and made a work pax for | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
working people on benefits, in work support, and should have made | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
millions of people in this country better off, but I fear they are set, | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
after the recent cuts, to m`ke millions of people worse off. I | :13:28. | :13:35. | |
will. Ashton-under-Lyne, my constituency, was one of thd first | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
place the pilot Universal Credit and an analysis by the House of Commons | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
library says that the singld mother of two working full-time will have | :13:44. | :13:53. | |
in net income loss of 2000 ?981 more on Universal Credit. My constituents | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
will be the first of many pdople to be hit by these cuts becausd they | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
were the first in the country to be put on Universal Credit. With my | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
friend back agree with me this is not fair and another exampld of a | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
broken Tory promise? I agred wholeheartedly. I believed hn my | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
friend back constituency thdre are 12,000 people who buy 2020 will be | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
subject to far lower incomes as a result of the cuts to Universal | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
Credit. Lest the northern powerhouse than in older workers. -- Northern | :14:29. | :14:39. | |
workhouse. Universal Credit is a bit of a black box and many people out | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
there and indeed may be on the Tory benches, don't quite apprechate what | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
is going on and have believdd the smoke and mirrors we have sden from | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
this Government. The changes that were snuck out, mentioned in passing | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
and last summer's budget and leaked out piecemeal statutory instrument | :15:00. | :15:06. | |
that we had to pray against even get it debated, it will half thd value | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
of the work allowance under Universal Credit and that is the | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
piece of Universal Credit that is absolutely essential to makhng work | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
pay. Let me clearly illustr`tes exactly what the nature of those | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
changes to the work allowances are, with the few examples. If you are a | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
single mother with one or more children, the work allowancd will be | :15:32. | :15:41. | |
half from April of this year from ?8,808 to ?4764. Meaning a reduction | :15:42. | :15:51. | |
of ?4044. In cash terms, th`t working mother will lose ?2628 next | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
year. That's the nature of the lost every single mother. I will get if | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
you are more examples beford I give way to my friend back. If you are a | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
joint couple living and working together, one or both of yot with | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
limited capacity to what, i.e., disabled, your work allowance will | :16:15. | :16:22. | |
be cut from 7700 to 4700. A loss of ?3000 in your income. If yot are a | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
single individual in receipt of Universal Credit, you will lose | :16:28. | :16:35. | |
everything. ?1332 reduction, a net loss to income of ?865. I ghve way. | :16:36. | :16:43. | |
I like right honourable fridnd for giving way. I am so glad shd has | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
mentioned that single parents and how they will be hit. The l`st | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
Labour Government that is proud with the new tool for lone parents. Does | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
he agree with me that the f`te that now befalls single parents hn this | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
country is a reversal of wh`t passed Government debt to help thel work. | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
Let me be clear, Mr Speaker. Just as we saw under the Tory governments in | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
the 1980s when the honourable member per working hammer was dragged | :17:14. | :17:21. | |
through the newspapers for damaging the reputation of working mothers | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
almost irreparably after colments he made about the state in Cardiff | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
they are back on the same track In the sites are single mothers. They | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
are the biggest single group of losers, out of all of these changes, | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
tax credits and universal credits, and it is a disgrace that they are | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
undergoing all the good work last Labour Government bids. -- of can he | :17:48. | :17:59. | |
confront it is the case that without these reforms a family with a net | :18:00. | :18:06. | |
household income of ?57,513 would be in receipt of benefits. Does he | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
think that is in anyway sustainable? What we're talking about here is not | :18:12. | :18:20. | |
families in receipt of that is a ?7,000 -- 50 ?7,000. We're talking | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
about families on low and mhddle wages and it is a complete less | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
representation of the facts and of this debate to try into this | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
discussion to high-paying, high earning taxpayers. I will ghve way. | :18:35. | :18:42. | |
And wanted to come back to the process he outlined at the beginning | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
of his remarks in that this was a to any statutory instrument. H`s he | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
read the many questions opposition members asked at this committee on | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
the impact this change would have, for example on carers, parthcularly | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
young carers? Work we have `sked repeatedly for any sort of hmpact | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
assessment in respect of thdse measures and as usual the Government | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
reels to offer one. We do not in his constituency, I believe it hs 1 ,000 | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
households that will lose ott by the end of this Parliament as a result | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
of these cuts. In the honourable gentleman constituency I believe it | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
will be 5000 of his constittents who will lose out, on average, ?950 by | :19:27. | :19:34. | |
the end of this Parliament. Perhaps he should reflect on that when he | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
wrote on this motion later today. I am grateful to my friend back and I | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
commend him for bringing thhs motion to the house today because the | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
impact of these changes are going to be devastating on a very grdat | :19:48. | :19:59. | |
number of my constituents who in one part of my constituency, were part | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
of the pilot for Universal Credit. Isn't there enough upon herd, and | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
that the secretary of state has indicated the ?69 million stpport | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
fund will help to bring in transitional arrangements. That fund | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
is used for a myriad of othdr purposes and we already know the | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
impact of the cuts to working families of Universal Credit changes | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
this year will be ?100 millhon alone. We do indeed, Mr Spe`ker My | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
friend that is absolutely rhght I think it will be 10,000 of his | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
constituents eventually affdcted with lower incomes as a restlt of | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
these changes. He is also rhght about the transitional protdctions | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
anti-whaling secretary of state is sought to misrepresent thosd is | :20:50. | :20:51. | |
covering those losses. Why can many colleagues on this | :20:52. | :21:05. | |
side, I was besieged by constituents in the run up to the spending | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
review. People concerned about the tax credit cuts and horrifidd that a | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
Government that said making work pay would be its mantra should do this | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
to working people. Does he think the 600,000 Londoners on tax crddits | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
will be equally horrified to know the sting is still in the t`il and | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
working people are going to lose out dramatically as the Univers`l Credit | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
is rolled out? I think more than that, they will be absolutely | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
cheesed off to the back teeth that this Government has tried to pull | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
the wall over their eyes. The truth is that these are precisely the same | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
cuts proposed tax credits. @lmost the exact amount of money whll be | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
saved through these cuts to the work allowances as was proposed. As a | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
member says from a sedentarx position, excellent, but like I d be | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
delighted to give way. A minor detail. Every penny paid out in | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
benefits has to be raised in packs out of working people's taxds. The | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
money paid out in tax credits is not wages, it is means tested bdnefits. | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
Does he not recognise the great advantage of Universal Credht is it | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
reduces the harsh impact of means tested withdrawal of income? Where | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
do I start, Mr Speaker? I start by telling him he will have 7000 of his | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
constituents hit by this by the time he next stand before them at the | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
election and he ought to reflect on that. It is precisely peopld in | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
work, paying tax, working h`rd, long hours, many men on wage, who are | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
getting hit by his Government. That is what these cuts are. This isn't a | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
different set of people, thdse aren't the scroungers they like to | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
talk about. These are the strvivors who are being hit by his Government. | :23:08. | :23:18. | |
The truth is, as the IFA saxs, there is no difference when these drugs | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
and lose the Government was proposing under tax credits and on | :23:22. | :23:29. | |
which they U-turn. The U-turn makes, and I quote, no difference. It is | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
the same ?5 billion the Govdrnment end up saving at the end of the | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
Parliament as opposed to at the beginning. It is ?10 billion | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
stripped out of the pockets of working families by this Government | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
and they should be ashamed of themselves. | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
I understand what he is sayhng but he has said he was committed to ?12 | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
billion in order to tackle the deficit. If not through these | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
changes, how would he make these savings? What I would not do, Mr | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
Speaker, I absolutely would not cut the incomes of 5.5 million working | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
families. An average of ?950 from each of them. Many in her | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
constituency. I would not t`ke 1600 away from 2.6 million working | :24:22. | :24:29. | |
families. Order. The honour`ble gentleman's eloquence must be | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
interrupted for me to make `n obvious point. Whatever dis, | :24:33. | :24:40. | |
similarities the members have, they have one thing in common, they are | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
extremely excitable. They nded to calm down a little bit. Not least, | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
so we can hear the flow of the honourable gentleman's eloqtence. Mr | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
Owen Smith. I am extremely grateful to you, Mr Speaker. Disabled | :25:01. | :25:11. | |
workers, Mr Speaker, will lose 2000 a year and the worst affectdd is my | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
honourable friend -- as my honourable friend remind thd House, | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
is single mothers. They are on the new shiny national living w`ge and | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
will be ?3000 worse off than they would have been. ?3000 worsd off. | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
How does the Government justify this? They have made a serids of | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
attempts at defending it. Fhrstly, to reference the manifesto. That | :25:37. | :25:47. | |
they did not say, as I recall, at the election, was that this would | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
come from working families. I don't recall them talking about ntrsery | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
nurses or security guards or shop workers on the minimum wage, as the | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
sort of wage scroungers thex now seek to vilify. Yet, these `re the | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
very people who will be hit by this change. I will give way. My | :26:10. | :26:18. | |
honourable friend was asked whether he would find alternative w`ys of | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
raising money, rather than taking it from the disabled, single p`rents, | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
carers, working families, would it not be more appropriate perhaps to | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
collect tax from many of thd top companies that are avoiding paying | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
their attacks, rather than stealing from low-paid families, as hs | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
proposed? I did find it quite interesting that in part of that | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
massive data dump before Christmas, we learned that some of our largest | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
banks, JP Morgan, Merrill Lxnch they absolutely no corporathon tax | :26:54. | :27:02. | |
in the UK last year. And others control conclusions. I will stick to | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
the subject at hand, Universal Credit. I want to talk about | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
transitional protection for those affected. As has been said, the | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
Government is telling us thdre is transitional protection. I will | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
concede that is sort of truth. Sort of. For some of the three and 5 ,000 | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
people who will be on Universal Credit, by next April. But not. . | :27:28. | :27:43. | |
350 was the latest figure I saw But not for the 5.8 million people who | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
will eventually beyond Univdrsal Credit. There is no transithonal | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
protection for them. Even for the 3.5 thousand, or the three `nd | :27:53. | :28:00. | |
50,000 who will be on it by March, it is not transitional protdction of | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
the undergo anything that constitutes what the Governlent call | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
a serious change of circumstances. Their transitional protection, the | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
maintenance of their benefits, they are in work support, at tax credit | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
levels,.. It will interest the House, I would of thought, given a | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
secure state's interest in larriages in this institution, but getting | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
married would constitute ond of those serious changes in | :28:26. | :28:27. | |
circumstances. Get married hf you're on tax credits and enjoying | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
transitional protection and the Secretary of State for Work and | :28:34. | :28:35. | |
Pensions will take that mondy away from you. For millions of claimants, | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
by 2020 there will be no protection whatsoever. The Secretary of State | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
has implied that there is transitional protection. He | :28:48. | :28:57. | |
intervened in a previous debate and said explicitly that we're | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
transitional protecting those moving on to Universal Credit. But | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
unfortunately, the Minister for welfare had to correct him. He said, | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
it is not the same. Indeed, it might be more work or it might be | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
upscaling. In truth, Mr Spe`ker the ?69 million fund that the Sdcretary | :29:21. | :29:30. | |
of State has mentioned, will in no way make up for the loss ovdr the | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
term of this Parliament. Thd truth came out in the data dump that we | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
saw infamously of documents snuck out in Christmas week. Responding to | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
criticism by the Government's own social security advisory colmittee, | :29:50. | :29:52. | |
ministers had to admit that the only way to recoup the losses, and I | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
quote," was to work an additional 3-4 hours a week". You did hear me | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
correctly. What they are now seen to that single mother losing those | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
?3000, working full-time, on the national minimum wage, lookhng after | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
children in the evening, wh`t they must do is get another job, working | :30:15. | :30:21. | |
an extra 3-4 hours a week or 20 hours a year, approximately. In | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
order to ensure they are no worse off than they are presently. You | :30:26. | :30:32. | |
tell me, Mr Speaker, becausd I can't see how that single mother, working | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
full-time, even on this new national minimum wage, with a child `t home, | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
is going to get an extra 3-4 hours a week, is going to work an extra 200 | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
hours a year, adding it to get a job after work in a bar or garage? Or | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
serving coffee? An addition`l job? Additional to the full-time job they | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
do during the day, addition`l to looking after their children, | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
cleaning, for example, in order to earn a few extra quid. What is the | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
incentive for that mother to undertake that work? Becausd the | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
other massively damaging effect of these cards is that it is | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
fundamentally undermines thd very premise of Universal Credit, to make | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
work pay. It fundamentally destroys it. I will give way. Thank xou. I | :31:21. | :31:30. | |
thank my honourable friend for being so generous in giving away `gain. I | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
want to remind him that in the Budget book, when the Chancdllor | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
announced his living wage, he also assumed a rise in personal `llowance | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
in his calculations, that work would pay. Given the broken promises, left | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
right and centre, from this Government, why should any single | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
parent believe what they sax? My advice is clear. Do not belheve a | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
single word they say. Do not believe anything they say to us in response | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
to this debate today. Do not believe what they're telling the cotntry | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
about making work pay and about Universal Credit because each and | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
every promise is being brokdn. The Secretary of State used to say this | :32:12. | :32:18. | |
was a watershed, indeed he tsed to say, it would ensure that work pays | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
and more work pays for everxbody. That cuts to the Universal Credit | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
Work Allowance have hauled that argument below the water line. The | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
House of Commons library brhefing produced yesterday and circtlated to | :32:35. | :32:36. | |
every member in this House lakes clear that that single mothdr, after | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
these changes, would have to work an extra 12 hours each week in order to | :32:42. | :32:50. | |
earn an extra ?40. That is ?3 3 hour, the changes. Before these | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
changes, she would have got ?92 for those extra 12 hours. At ?7 62 p. | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
How on earth is that meant to be increasing her incentive to go out | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
and work harder and longer? It is absolute nonsense, Mr Speakdr. It | :33:11. | :33:17. | |
cannot and it will not... I would be delighted to give way. I just wonder | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
whether there is something hn the integrity of these people you speak | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
about that says they raise their heads high enough to say, OK, it is | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
not great, but I am lifting myself and my children of a life of welfare | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
dependency. And that is a pride and I would like to talk a bit lore in | :33:38. | :33:44. | |
those towns and that language. I have respect for the honour`ble lady | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
in the way she stood up and represented her constituents on the | :33:50. | :33:58. | |
tax credits changes. I would point her to the document commisshoned by | :33:59. | :34:06. | |
the Secretary of State when he first conceived of Universal Credht. In | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
the opening remarks, he demolished the argument she just made. He | :34:13. | :34:19. | |
effectively said that we cannot expect people to simply through | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
responsibility and moral obligation work harder. We need to introduce | :34:24. | :34:30. | |
incentives. That is the unddrpinning rationale of Universal Credht. And | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
unfortunately, these changes, the cuts to the work allowance, to | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
childcare provision, are fundamentally undermining the | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
initial premise. They are ddstroying Universal Credit. As a consdquence, | :34:46. | :34:51. | |
5000 of her constituents in 202 will be suffering lower incomes as | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
a result of these changes to Universal Credit. I just wonder if | :34:57. | :35:06. | |
my honourable friend agrees that, as someone who lived on in work | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
benefits, whilst the delightful feeling of being lifted out of | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
welfare benefits never fed ly children... ? Would he agred? I | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
completely agree and the Secretary of State and members across the | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
House should listen. She should also know there are 17,000 consthtuents | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
in her constituency who will be hit by this in 2020. An extraordinary | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
number of families with lowdr incomes, as a result of these | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
changes. The truth, Mr Speaker, is these changes cannot increase work | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
incentives and they will not increase outcomes. They cannot. I | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
will give way in a moment. That is why successive independent dxperts | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
have now come out and told the Government to think again, `s they | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
did on tax credits. The Sochal Security advisory committee, the | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
Government's own advisory committee, tell them the reverse. The | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
resolution foundation, chaired by former Tory minister, tell them to | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
reverse, the, most important of all, most recently, the Government's | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
social mobility commission, deputy chaired by a Tory peer, Aaron S | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
Shepherd, on December 17, in their state of the nation 2015 on social | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
mobility and child poverty, they said with clarity to be Secretary of | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
State Colin "The immediate priority must be to take action to ensure the | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
introduction of Universal Credit does not make families with | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
children, who do the right thing, in terms of working as much as society | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
expects them to, worse off, then they would be under the current | :36:51. | :36:58. | |
system." That means reversing the cuts enacted through the Amdndment | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
regulations. They are bright, Mr Speaker. We agree with them. Just as | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
we agreed when the honourable member for South temperature and all of her | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
colleagues, urged the Government to reverse last time. I give w`y. I am | :37:14. | :37:24. | |
somewhat selective speech, hs he not somewhat selective speech, hs he not | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
missing the point that Univdrsal Credit, will make it invari`bly | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
clear to people that if thex work more they will earn more, against | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
the current system, where t`pered rates go up to 9%, incredibly | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
confusing and people do not risk taking on extra work cause they | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
would have to reapply for bdnefits and could be worse. Univers`l credit | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
has a beautiful simplicity `nd would encourage people to work. I | :37:51. | :38:07. | |
congratulate his equal deft speech. If we had had a 55% taper r`te. Or | :38:08. | :38:15. | |
even the 65% taper rate we have currently, with worker alli`nces, | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
that would double what is now proposed, and that would have made | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
work pay. It would have been an incentive for people to work extra | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
hours. I made that plane in my speech. But with the success of cuts | :38:26. | :38:34. | |
made since 2012, it will not deliver what was promised. He, and the | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
country, I been sold a pup by the Secretary of State. It is not what | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
was written on the tin when he first brandished it, Mr Speaker. @ll | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
members opposite need to understand that. There will be thousands of | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
families in their respectivd constituencies affected by these | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
cuts, many of them losing as much or more than they would have done under | :38:58. | :39:04. | |
the tax credit cuts. I said to them and to you all here today, join with | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
us, tell me how this is different from the cuts you stood agahnst last | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
time round. Other than, people might not quite have the time to realise | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
the cuts are being made before you next get to stand in the eldction. | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
That, as far as I can see, hs the only plausible reason for f`iling to | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
stand on your conscience thhs time and rail against these cuts. I give | :39:31. | :39:31. | |
way. To the present was war as it was at | :39:32. | :39:43. | |
its conception of this policy and there has been no change. -, the | :39:44. | :39:52. | |
taper rate. I'm not make a listake. I referred to the original document | :39:53. | :40:00. | |
by yourself and share them by yourself, in which it was | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
recommended there be a bettdr day 5% taper rate. I might also re`d their | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
to the commission that argud you need to get back to a 55% t`per | :40:12. | :40:20. | |
rate, so the secretary of state as he wants to make an argument in | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
favour of his pet project bdtter stand up and get to the dispatch | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
box. I would be more than grateful to talk about it any time. @s I have | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
said to effectively absent so recklessly of state who bridfed the | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
press he would resign if his pet project was touched by the | :40:41. | :40:43. | |
Chancellor, now is the time to go. As plans have been shredded by | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
number 11 since 2012. He sahd it would be more benefits than the | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
benefit it replaced, it will be ?5.7 billion less generous and hd | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
promised. 4 billion less th`n the current system. He said it was going | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
to make work pay, but as I have shown today, after these cuts, it is | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
tantamount to asking single mothers to pay to work. I thank my | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
honourable friend for giving way. Might bring back mentioned darlier | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
on the disabled and is it not worth underlining at this point are | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
particularly hard heading this is on disabled people in work and could | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
lose up to ?2000 as a result of this? Mr Speaker, my honour`ble | :41:33. | :41:42. | |
friend is right, as ever. 9000 constituencies in her consthtuency | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
will be worse off. Those amongst them who are disabled or part of the | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
couple where one or more melber is these able will lose ?2000 tnder | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
these cuts and it is a disgrace Under this Government, people are | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
working in a preview of wagd working in a preview of wagd | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
restraint and austerity we have not seen since the 1920s. This story | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
indebted promises to see thd lowest ten year period of wage in ` gated | :42:09. | :42:21. | |
-- for a decade. Half of th`t that under the last Labour Government. | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
That includes all of the fancy promises about a national mhnimum | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
wage. The living wage will lake up just 22% the losses working people | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
will see under these changes and it is misleading to this country and to | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
the house to suggest otherwhse. Under this secretary of state we | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
have a bedroom in packs that leaves people with no money to pay for food | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
or heating, a sanctions reghme that has the song to suicide and now | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
Universal Credit that will reduce security and rewards for people | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
doing the right thing and working hard for their families and society | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
and the secretary of state should have addressed these questions | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
today, have spoken to this house, and consider his position. The | :43:12. | :43:13. | |
question as is on the order paper. I call the minister. I will join the | :43:14. | :43:21. | |
shadow secretary of state in wishing everybody a happy new year. I am | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
sorry I am not the person hd wished to exchange with, but this hs a real | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
area of passion from me. My background is in starting mx own | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
business, I understand opportunity, something that all too often is not | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
given in society and I am ddtermined the changes that helped shape my | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
journey into politics is integral to why we need to reform welfare state. | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
Mr Speaker, the welfare state system. Like a very early. Given the | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
background he set out he will will understand why it would be ` mistake | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
to go ahead with the tax crddit cuts before Christmas. Why then `re they | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
going ahead with the guts for the people whose only mistake is to have | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
the misfortune of receiving Universal Credit -- go ahead with | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
the cuts. And a little bit of time to expand my argument which will | :44:18. | :44:27. | |
address those things. One of the key things over tax credits was people | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
argued all of the changes coming and needed time to be phased in and that | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
is what I will be setting ott. The welfare system we inherited was | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
simply not working. Not supporting people into work, to stay in work | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
and progress and work. People were left unfulfilled potential, | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
languishing on benefit with little or no incentive to work. Progress | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
and opportunities in the work was stifled. Opportunity should be given | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
and not stifled. The truth hs our welfare system had become so | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
distorted and complex and wd know that what our own individual | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
casework when we deal with residents. Two of the residdnts were | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
missing out on benefits thex were entitled to because they cotld not | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
navigate something that was too complex. It off and shut thd door of | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
opportunity because it paid more to be on benefits than work. As we | :45:21. | :45:29. | |
know, as does the electoratd. I say this was not disapproval of those | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
who claim benefits, but it was the system itself to blame and that is | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
why we took to reformat. Thd aim is and continues to be a systel that | :45:40. | :45:42. | |
extends opportunity and instrers were always pays. Moving from the | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
high welfare, high tax socidty to a low tax, low welfare societx. A | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
common-sense approach to crdating a system fairer to taxpayers who face | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
an ever-increasing bill and deliver a system sustainable for our country | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
but crucially, a system that will take the most vulnerable. Ldt me | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
remind the house that will put spending on people in work rose from | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
6,000,000,019 90 82 August 20 8,000,000,020 ten. -- two | :46:12. | :46:23. | |
28,000,000,020 ten. I think my friend back on the front thdn she | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
has made an excellent speech outlining Labour's position. It | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
seems that the something those opposite do not understand. It's | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
just what part of people should not lose out to achieve that he's | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
outlining. Why should certahn families lose out compared to | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
families on tax credit and why won't they protect those people so they do | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
not lose out? I will be covdring the transitional arrangements. H gently | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
remind the honourable lady that when 10p income tax rate was changed | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
where was the transitional arrangements put in place? We will | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
be mindful of the advice we take. Does the Minister have access to any | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
figures that point to the stccesses since 2010 in terms of the number of | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
people in employment and thd number of people receiving benefits? I | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
thank my honourable friend line was worked incredibly hard on hhs own | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
constituency to help people get into work. Over the country over 2 | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
million more people are in work record numbers with record low | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
numbers out of work. Welfard spending overall with top costing | :47:39. | :47:50. | |
every household and extra ?3000 a year in 2010. The number of working | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
people in poverty actually went up by about 20% and nearly one in five | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
households have no one workhng and this was just too often the norm. To | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
confirm that welfare spending under his Government has gone up now more | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
than it has under any previous Government, reaching ?1 billion | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
under the last government, ?130 billion more than the last Labour | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
Government. In percentage tdrms it's now back to 2008-2009 levels. These | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
reforms are key to doing thhs. To have a black open cheque-book was | :48:27. | :48:29. | |
simply not an approach we are hard-working taxpayers would take. I | :48:30. | :48:37. | |
think everybody understands the rationale for having a welf`re | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
system that incentivises people to work. What I would like the Minister | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
to explain is how these proposals, which means people have to work | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
longer hours for the same money is actually going to achieve that | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
purpose of incentivising people I will not try to make some progress | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
so I can address this. The old approach of taking money from wages | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
and recycling it back to hil and had those was not transform livds, it | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
was trapping people. It did not provide the right incentives for | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
support for people to get on and realise their ambitions and | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
therefore our central appro`ch is about ensuring people are bdtter off | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
than work and better off working more. I think he's been a lhttle bit | :49:19. | :49:26. | |
too charitable to the party opposite. It may be cynical on my | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
part, what their policies sought to do was create a hinterland of people | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
wedded to welfare and relies upon wedded to welfare and relies upon | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
the Labour Party. That is so through that at the election and thdy are | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
not going back to that again. There is no need to feel you're bding | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
cynical, the statistics makd that very clear. Universal Credit will | :49:47. | :49:55. | |
allow people to have the dignity and respect that comes with havhng a | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
job. Employment is at a record high, up 2 million since 2010. | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
Unemployment down over 750000 by 20 ten. Claimant count at its lowest | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
level since 1975. Number of people claiming made out of work bdnefits | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
is followed by 1 million since 010. Wages are rising, 30 months | :50:15. | :50:23. | |
consecutively higher than inflation. That is when living standards are up | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
and business confidence is underpinning all this progrdss, | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
something the opposition parties of their knowledge. Let me makd a | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
little bit more progress. Universal Credit benefits is removing the | :50:38. | :50:44. | |
barriers to work that existdd in the old system. The major reforls needed | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
to our welfare system of 13 years, after 13 years of a Labour culture | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
of dependency are not that difficult choices but it is designed to | :50:56. | :50:58. | |
provide certainty for claim`nts and the right incentives to find work | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
and crucially progress in work. This has always been at the heart of | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
Universal Credit and contintes to be so. Universal Credit policy is | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
unchanged since the summer budget, despite attempts by the opposition | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
to suggest things to the contrary. It allows us to achieve the goal of | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
achieving a surplus while costing less than the earlier years. This is | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
a point I made at an early intervention. I want to remhnd the | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
house of the incentives that Universal Credit creates and | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
provides. A single paper of 65% means financial support is withdrawn | :51:36. | :51:42. | |
at the predictable rate a loving claimants to understand the benefits | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
of what an extends financial incentives to those working fewer | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
than 16 hours a week and reloves the limit to the amount of covers | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
someone can work each week. No one could understand why we had a | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
welfare system that created an artificial barriers. Whilst we all | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
understand the way Universal Credit is intended to work, does hd not | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
understand there is an in-btilt disadvantage to those areas that | :52:10. | :52:16. | |
were Universal Credit pilots, like part of my constituency. Because | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
Universal Credit is being phased in across the country these cuts will | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
hit those areas that were the early entrance into the Universal Credit | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
programme much harder than other parts of the country. What we are | :52:31. | :52:38. | |
seeing is those on Universal Credit are more likely to progress into | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
work and I will come onto that in more detail a bit later on. One last | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
one for now. He said earlier in response to an intervention it was a | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
transitional arrangement, btt the trouble is people receiving | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
Universal Credit will be full cut in April this year, they will be | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
clobbered. I am coming on to those in detail so a little bit of | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
patience. Crucially and unipuely, Universal Credit stays with you when | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
you went to work until your earnings reach a certain level or yot can | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
support yourself and this ghves claimants the confidence to start | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
the job without going through the bureaucracy of changing the benefit | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
claim. This is not just the idea of streamlining bureaucracy and | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
Universal Credit is often portrayed, it is about having a single point of | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
contact with the work coach to provide personalised support and | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
guidance and this is the Unhversal Credit comes into its own. This is | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
the bit I am very passionatd about because we all confident individuals | :53:37. | :53:43. | |
and when we are faced with challenges we normally will go and | :53:44. | :53:50. | |
take on those challenges but that isn't the case with everybody. To be | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
able to give somebody that named personal contact when they `re | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
navigating complicated benefit systems, dealing with indivhdual | :53:58. | :54:05. | |
segments and this will allow what courts to help you develop xour | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
role. It is not that we will just wish you all the best that xou have | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
now secured a job, it gives you the ability to develop your rold, | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
seeking to secure more hours, develop skills and confidence to | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
progress through the grades. In other words, Universal Credht not | :54:22. | :54:24. | |
only supports bill to move hnto a job or built a career. In breaking | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
the cycle of dependency and creating opportunity. | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
Can the Minister accept that we re talking about people who ard doing | :54:34. | :54:40. | |
the hours but the rate of p`y is so low that it is more about | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
productivity and the fact the Government is not creating the | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
high-level types of jobs. Wd are too dependent on the service sector | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
essentially low paid jobs, not jobs where people are actually gdtting a | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
high rate of pay for the hotrs they are doing? Three quarters of jobs | :54:58. | :55:05. | |
being created are at managerial level and the majority are | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
friend was topping about thd friend was topping about thd | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
benefits of Universal Credit. I have spoken to two Jobcentres and heard | :55:16. | :55:21. | |
exactly that. Such good feedback, both from the job coaches and | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
job-seekers themselves, it gives them more flexibility to work. | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
Please confirm that this will continue because they want to be | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
able to give more job-seekers the opportunity to be on Universal | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
Credit. Thank you. It is thd importance of that personalhsed | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
support. That is vital. We've seen it through experiences in lhfe. This | :55:44. | :55:55. | |
is important. It is an example of the way the honourable friend has | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
taken the time to go and visit a Universal Credit site. I wotld | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
encourage people to do that. I spoke to someone piloting Univers`l Credit | :56:08. | :56:13. | |
two weeks ago. Is the Minister seriously telling me single mother | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
that I mentioned earlier, working full-time on the new nation`l | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
minimum wage, that she should not worry about seeing that ?3000 drop | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
in her income, as a result of these cuts because she has a personal work | :56:26. | :56:27. | |
coach who will encourage her and coach who will encourage her and | :56:28. | :56:31. | |
give for greater confidence and make sure she can get another job, maybe | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
in management or something? Is he seriously saying this to thd | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
country? First of all, I will go further on my invitation. I will | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
join the Bible member if he wants to come and see some of this work in | :56:46. | :56:48. | |
action. The he is worried about going on his own, I will be, in | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
effect, his work coach. We're talking about a working lond parent | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
doing 35 hours on the national minimum wage, who would be better | :57:00. | :57:01. | |
off. We could all continue to trade... We can continue to trade | :57:02. | :57:08. | |
examples that this is presuling that this is a static analysis. @nd I | :57:09. | :57:15. | |
will be coming to address this. The evidence is clear. Universal Credit | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
is working. Independent statistics show that under Universal Credit, | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
people spent 50% more time looking for work. There are more likely to | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
have been in work and when hn work, they are more and seek more hours. | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
Universal Credit is supporthng people, whether they move in or out | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
of work and focuses on getthng people into work and to stax in | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
employment, where earnings hncrease and the number of working hours | :57:44. | :57:50. | |
rises. Thank you. The public and commercial services union h`ve | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
concerns cause it will affect the Government's on staff. What | :57:56. | :57:58. | |
assessment has been made by the cuts to work allowance on the effect of | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
employees in the Department for Work and Pensions? As I will explain | :58:03. | :58:15. | |
this is not a static analyshs. To focus on the point about how we will | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
support people, people will benefit from improved support. For those | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
directly affected by changes to work allowance, we have been cardful to | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
put measures in place. In addition to work coach support, they will | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
have access to funding throtgh flexible support funds. This will | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
help people retain work and increase earnings to things like trahning, | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
travel and care, and we will support people to access this. In the longer | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
term, we ensure protection for claimants when they move from legacy | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
benefits to Universal Credit. We have always been clear that there | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
will be no cash losers as the result of a managed migration of claimants | :58:52. | :58:54. | |
from one system to another, as long as circumstances a missing. My last | :58:55. | :59:04. | |
intervention. The Minister seriously telling me how is that the ?69 | :59:05. | :59:10. | |
million flexible support fund he has just mentioned, is in anywax going | :59:11. | :59:17. | |
to make up for the ?3.2 billion lost to working families? You're missing | :59:18. | :59:28. | |
the two parts. People going across to have cash protected. The fund is | :59:29. | :59:35. | |
to help people navigate. I appreciate you giving way. H | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
specifically wanted to come back to the point around the work coaches. | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
In my constituency of Lincolnshire, In my constituency of Lincolnshire, | :59:43. | :59:49. | |
the mapping exercise undert`ken was a out. So, I know the local | :59:50. | :59:56. | |
authorities there cannot medt the needs for work coaches. That has | :59:57. | :00:02. | |
been passed to the Citizens Advice Bureau. They also cannot manage the | :00:03. | :00:07. | |
load. The figures they were given initially were incorrect. This is | :00:08. | :00:16. | |
delivered through Jobcentres and the universal service, so we will have | :00:17. | :00:22. | |
to discuss that a bit furthdr. Figures have been banded about. They | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
were wildly inaccurate and based on a fundamental misunderstandhng of | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
Universal Credit, hence why I am so keen to arrange a visit. Thd vast, | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
vast majority of Universal Credit cases will not lose out as ` result | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
of the changes because the leasure only affects those people who are in | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
work. Most of those would h`ve received nothing under tax credits. | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
That is not something I had seen the opposition campaigning to do | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
anything on before. Univers`l Credit is a dynamic benefit. You h`d your | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
turn. I will give way. We h`ve got to the point of his speech. The | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
50,000 people who are today receiving Universal Credit, who are | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
in work, they will see their benefit sharply cut in April. Thank you for | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
that point. I will come onto those specific people. But in overall | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
numbers, it is the vast majority. And we have to look at the bigger | :01:25. | :01:33. | |
picture. A lot of the analysis has been static. Even that of the IFS. I | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
know many of the speakers h`ve acknowledged this is a stathc | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
analysis. Universal Credit hs not a stand-alone measure. It is part of a | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
wider, dynamic package of rdforms to support families in work and make | :01:49. | :01:56. | |
sure workplace. We will savd taxpayers over ?900 a year. We | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
pledged to raise this by thd end of the parliament. The national living | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
wage will come into effect from April. That will benefit directly | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
2.75 million people. It is forecast to reach over ?9 per hour. That | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
might upset many of the opposition who campaigned for just ?8 per hour, | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
but we felt that did not go far enough. I appreciate the honourable | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
gentleman giving way. For clarification, the House of Commons | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
have quoted me figures. So they are wrong, because according to them, a | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
single parent working full-time on a minimum wage, would be nearly ? 000 | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
a year worse off than they would have been on tax credit. I would | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
appreciate clarification. Thank you. I have worked closely on our | :02:53. | :03:00. | |
commitment to have the employment gap... Table Bay cash protected as | :03:01. | :03:08. | |
they transferred over. They will not be worse off. We have rising wages. | :03:09. | :03:16. | |
We have near zero inflation. We have strong economic growth, delhvering | :03:17. | :03:18. | |
record jobs and creating opportunities for people to get into | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
work, to increase their hours. We simplify the benefit system, | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
reducing the potential for claimants to miss out on money they are | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
entitled to. And crucially, allowing them time to focus on actually | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
finding the work, rather th`n navigating the complex chaotic | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
system. It is 50% more time. Work coaches are there to support people | :03:42. | :03:51. | |
in work. And also, childcard. We are increasing the childcare offer. | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
Universal Credit currently covers up to 70% of eligible childcard costs | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
and that will increase to 84% from April. It will make a huge | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
difference to people's lines. We're also doubling free childcard to 30 | :04:08. | :04:17. | |
hours for working parents. Tax free childcare from early 2017 whll give | :04:18. | :04:25. | |
those not in receipt of Universal Credit another ?2000 per chhld per | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
year or up to ?4000 for a dhsabled child. All measures are deshgned to | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
help families keep more of the money we earn. We will make it re`l | :04:34. | :04:45. | |
difference to people. I would like to divert your attention to | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
homelessness. Articulate, the rise of homelessness in London. @ group | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
of charities has said the rhse in homelessness in London is dte to the | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
chronic housing shortage, btt also cuts to welfare reform and Social | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
Security, particularly Univdrsal Credit. I don't know if the Minister | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
is aware but last year, homdlessness rose to 7500 people now sledping | :05:08. | :05:14. | |
rough on the streets of London. The minister recognised when Unhversal | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
Credit will exacerbate this problem? Point out... ? And intervention must | :05:20. | :05:30. | |
be short. I think he has thd gist. I thank the honourable lady. We are | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
committed to building more affordable housing, in London in | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
particular. I welcome the mdasures the Chancellor set out to m`ke that | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
happen. She can laugh but wd saw record low house-building under the | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
last Labour Government. One last intervention. I would like to ask if | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
the Minister has done an assessment of how many people on Universal | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
Credit would be able to afford even a starter home in London? That is | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
why we have to create opportunity, so people can get into work, | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
increase their hours... The honourable lady does not like | :06:10. | :06:18. | |
creating opportunity. We have to allow people from all backgrounds to | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
get that opportunity. We, as a party, value the prospect of | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
potential people having homeownership. In conclusion, I .. | :06:27. | :06:37. | |
Does he agree that the welf`re system spiralled out of control | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
under the last Government? Hn the words of Alistair Darling, the | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
former Chancellor, it ended up subsidising low wages in th`t was | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
never intended. Is it not rhght that these reforms will address that It | :06:49. | :06:58. | |
was ?3000 per hard-working family under the last Labour Government. | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
The decision to reverse all these will have to be paid for. Wd cannot | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
just magically print money. It might help any potential future rdshuffle | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
to promise that. But back in the real world, it means life would be | :07:10. | :07:18. | |
more difficult for hard-working people. Universal Credit boots work | :07:19. | :07:26. | |
first and ensures people can improve the quality of their lives. We want | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
to return welfare spending to a sustainable level. It will be | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
delivered through reform, stpport and crucially, creating | :07:37. | :07:44. | |
opportunities. Thank you, M`dam Deputy Speaker. Can I wish xou, and | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
other members of the House, a good New Year? I would like to bdgin by | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
thanking the opposition and the honourable member for Pontypridd for | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
bringing forward a motion for this debate today, which the SNP will be | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
happy to support. Today feels a bit like Groundhog Day. We're d`ting the | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
adverse impact of the Government Social Security changes on people in | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
low-paid work. And once agahn, we, on these benches, ask why low-income | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
families are being asked to pay the heaviest price for austeritx, while | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
low-paid workers, in partictlar once again find themselves on the | :08:21. | :08:22. | |
front line? It was very quickly apparent that | :08:23. | :08:34. | |
this sort was still hanging over many a low paid household sdt to be | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
hammered by tax credits cuts. It has been a short reprieve because in | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
April this year the reductions are the work allowance under Unhversal | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
Credit will hit many of the same low income families when it comds into | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
effect. When Universal Credht was first introduced in the last | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
Parliament, some lofty and extravagant claims were madd for it, | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
some of which we have heard of today. It was going to simplify and | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
streamline the benefit systdm, be much more flexible and make it | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
easier for people to move in and out of work, reflecting the realities of | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
the modern labour market and above all, remove the benefit trap by | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
tackling financial disincentives to enter the workforce. It would create | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
better work incentives and lake work pay but improve the incentives to | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
move into better paid work overtime. It was a grand plan. The re`lity has | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
been very different. I don't need to dwell too long in the technhcal and | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
management problems that has beset Universal Credit since its beginning | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
except that it has been repdated delays and rebooted several times | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
and now is unlikely to be ftlly implemented until 2021 at the | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
earliest. What I think is f`r more telling of how far the whold project | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
of Universal Credit has str`yed from its original objectives. Thd | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
cornerstone of its ailing policy was it would improve work incentives and | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
tackle poverty. That cornerstone has crumbled under the weight of a | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
misconceived, psychologically driven and quite unnecessarily austerity of | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
agenda through this Governmdnt has chosen to appeal lies low income | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
families and make them pay ` disproportionate price for the | :10:22. | :10:23. | |
economic scale the past and present governments. By cutting the work | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
allowance the Government is cutting the very aspect of Universal Credit | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
that creates a work incentives, so all the good progress that has been | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
made will be an done very qtickly after April. I will give wax. With | :10:38. | :10:44. | |
my friends might agree with me that one of the reasons why it mxself and | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
honourable members get so p`ssionate about this issue is that as people | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
who have previously been recipients of benefits have now been able to | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
aspire to do better things `nd we pay our taxes, but that was because | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
of a Labour Government and this Government is appalling that ladder | :11:05. | :11:06. | |
up for people in need and ddserve that helped. I am conscious of the | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
honourable lady represents `n area that has been at the forefront of | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
the pilot scheme for this and I hope I will opportunity later on to | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
address some of the issues. She makes a valid point that thd | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
economic recession hit people very hard indeed and the people hit the | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
hardest were those old with the vulnerable employment, the lost | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
insecure jobs and the recovdry has not given them the job security they | :11:36. | :11:43. | |
hoped for. I will give way. She is making interesting points, but the | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
facts don't quite support some of what she is saying. Is it not a fact | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
that Universal Credit systel is incentivising people into work, the | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
figures speak for themselves. 7 % of Universal Credit claimants hn the | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
first nine months move from welfare to work. It is working. My whole | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
point is any progress that has been made will be undone if you remove | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
the work incentives, which hs the work allowance. It is the aspect of | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
Universal Credit that makes it possible for people to actu`lly | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
learn more when the work. The reality is by cutting the work | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
allowance the Government is going to impose an eye watering level of | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
marginal taxation of people in low paid jobs and make it harder than | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
ever for those from lower income households to be out of the poverty | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
trap. If the Government was serious about making work pay and boosting | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
the UK's productivity and if they actually wanted to help people get | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
on they would be increasing the work allowance, not reducing it. That | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
would be genuinely progresshve measure and actively help those in | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
low paid work. Is her argumdnt is not also supported by the Institute | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
for Fiscal Studies in a report said, the cuts to do what allowance we can | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
incentives for families to have someone in work? I think lots of | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
stink tanks have been queuehng up to point out how this major relove the | :13:09. | :13:17. | |
work incentives. -- think t`nk. To increase the work allowance would be | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
much more progressive measure that raising the personal tax allowance. | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
Higher rate taxpayers benefht of much more than anyone on low paid | :13:27. | :13:34. | |
work. The cuts to the Universal Credit what allowances are | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
introduced via the Amendment regulations that were considered | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
very negative resolution procedure and by a Delegated Legislathon | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
Committee in November. My honourable friend for Glasgow South West are | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
posted at the time because ht was clear to him and to me that reducing | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
the at a hostel can earn before Universal Credit is reduced would | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
hurt low income families, in certain circumstances, very hard indeed and | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
remove work incentives from those households. It gives me gre`t | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
concern they were enacted through delegated legislation inste`d of | :14:07. | :14:08. | |
being more fully debated in this chamber and without that level of | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
scrutiny that I think the consequences merit, as far `s I | :14:13. | :14:20. | |
know, the DWP has yet to implement impact assessment for these changes. | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
Therefore we are dependent on external bodies for impact `nalysis | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
and I would be grateful if linisters could see if they will publhsh any | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
impact assessment, given thd Social security advisory committee has | :14:35. | :14:36. | |
expressed concerns about thd adequacy of the evidence base for | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
evaluating the changes. We can spout as much hot air and this ch`mber as | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
we like, but if we lack the proper evidence or use it selectivdly then | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
we will feel the people who depend on the support of our social | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
security system. In late December the Social security and child | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
poverty commission said the changes to work the week that Universal | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
Credit is largely negative jaw to the reduction in water allowances. | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
Claimants to pay income tax will only keep 24p in every extr` pound | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
that they own. They would bd to earn an extra ?210 a week to makd up the | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
losses from a reduced work allowance. That's a staggerhng rate | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
of marginal taxation and makes a mockery of any motion there will be | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
work incentives left in the Universal Credit. It is also | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
important to get away from the false idea creeping into the day-to-day | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
that there are taxpayers and then there are people on benefits. The | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
reality as most of the people giving work allowances, the clue is in the | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
name, it is a work allowancd for people who are working. It hs for | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
people working in low paid jobs I will give way to the jet lag. I ve | :15:51. | :15:57. | |
been listening carefully to what she has been saying and she does say it | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
is very important the full data and alternatives are exposed. Would you | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
like to set out the implications of the route she would prefer `s the | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
rebellion and how that would be affordable? I will happily do that | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
because prior to the general election the SNP set out in some | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
detail how it had an altern`tive is to austerity that was entirdly | :16:21. | :16:27. | |
costed. What we were keen to point out is austerity is a choicd because | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
you can balance the books whthout austerity and Phillies ?140 billion | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
for investment in public services and that would be much bettdr way | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
and also sensible way of dohng business. I would refer him to our | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
manifesto. The honourable gdntleman needs to know and might be | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
interested to know we actually proposed in that manifesto we would | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
increase the work allowances by 20% to create the exact incentive that | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
the Government says it wants the great, but seems to be pullhng the | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
rug out from underneath. I will not way again but I will make some | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
progress. I am a bit conscious of time. The commission on sochal | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
mobility and Child poverty `lso pointed out the single parent | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
working full-time on the minimum wage and the receiving zero help | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
with housing costs would lose ? 0 a week. In what fantasy world is that, | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
to making work pay? Many parents working hard and struggled to | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
support their families will find themselves substantially worse off. | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
There is enormous complexitx of the impact of these cuts the work | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
allowance depending on a range of factors including number of adults | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
in the hustle and if housing costs are included. As has been s`id | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
already, single parents, but also the self-employed are likelx to be | :17:48. | :17:49. | |
the worst hit but there will be painful and individuals | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
circumstances. The Institutd for Fiscal Studies as part of the doubt | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
there will be more losers than winners under these changes and the | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
resolution foundation estim`tes working families with children or a | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
Universal Credit will be on average ?1300 worse off by 2020. Thd ISS | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
estimate overall 2.6 million families across the UK will be worse | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
off by an average of ?1600 ` year. Let's not pretend any more, to | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
ourselves or to the public, but Universal Credit will creatd work | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
incentives and tackle in work poverty. It is not. For most of the | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
people of big it will make things worse. I will give way. I would be | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
interested to know why it is then that to all people going through the | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
Universal Credit system find employment rather than on the | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
traditional job-seekers method. We're talking about a changd due to | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
commence in April that will undercut the work incentives and the good | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
work incentives out of Univdrsal Credit. What allowance, the thing | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
that helps make Universal Credit make work pay, the cornerstone, and | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
if you take that out then you have just got another benefit tr`p likely | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
what it is trying to replacd. I want to pick up the issue raised earlier | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
by the honourable member on the Government was my response to the | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
Social security advisory colmittee or occasional paper number 49 | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
Universal Credit where they said they expect limits to respond to | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
cuts in the wok allowance bx, actively seeking more work. And what | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
we have already heard about the disincentives caused by high rates | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
and marginal taxation that hs simply wishful thinking. I think the | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
secretary of state and thosd on the Government benches are labotring | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
under the misapprehension that people in a low paid jobs. What work | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
as hard as those in highly paid jobs and that is somewhat easy to pick up | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
extra wok. Whether another wee job or longer hours. Low paid jobs are | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
often the most physically ddmanding, most insecure and was exhausting. | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
Earlier yesterday morning when I was Aberdeenshire at past roadblocks | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
were members already working in the pouring rain -- roadworks. They were | :20:01. | :20:07. | |
out of the crack of dawn setting up temporary traffic lights. They want | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
beyond minimum wage but not high earners and some of them undoubtedly | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
will be families receiving tax credits or Universal Credit. I | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
couldn't help like myself how lucky I am to work indoors at this time of | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
year. Both manual workers at the exact sort of folk who will be asked | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
to work extra hours of what a second job. I will give way. She is making | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
an excellent speech. As she agree with me it is fundamentally | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
offensive to those workers `nd all workers on low wages for thd | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
secretary of state and his linisters because that will revert to the | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
dynamic effects that are gohng to be introduced by this new systdm. Are | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
these people on dynamic, working full-time in the pouring rahn? They | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
were definitely showing is there an item they met Dame Millicent | :21:00. | :21:01. | |
yesterday morning and I was glad I did not work with them yestdrday. I | :21:02. | :21:09. | |
partly agree. I think the rdality of the labour market and insectrity of | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
the modern labour market is people moved in and out of pipe work a lot | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
more than in the past and it is important we do manage to h`ve a | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
system that responds to that. My problem, and I hope to come to see a | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
bit about this later on, is the Government is undermining its own | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
process by its transitional arrangements. There are people all | :21:30. | :21:38. | |
over my constituency and I'l sure if everybody's constituencies who work | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
extremely hard in piling on low paid, not exactly pleasant jobs that | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
are neither interesting not glamorous and often where jtggling | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
family responsibilities, looking after children or elderly or infirm | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
relatives. Taking on extra hour was spent not just on that weren't being | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
available but being available at a time when they have access to | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
childcare. Young children c`n get themselves into school in the | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
morning, they merely can walk on their own and can be left unattended | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
at home or get their own te`. Many working parents have to juggle | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
family and work commitments and one of the reason so many women are | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
trapped in low paid, low skhll jobs, even if they have high level | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
qualifications as they are the primary carer and the household and | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
try to fit work around their responsibilities. It is a lot easier | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
to do that any well-paid job. I have a question that it was the puestion | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
posed by my friend from Glasgow or so. Many of those in low pahd jobs | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
in Government departments, hncluding the DWP, receive tax credits at the | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
moment or Universal Credit. Will their employer but then if xou extra | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
hours to compensate them for the loss of their work allowancd? Well | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
the DWP specifically offer dxtra hours to its own staff were set to | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
lose out, will be imposed conditionality on the run stuff | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
instead? If the Government can't award, to support its own staff in | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
my opinion, it has no busindss in putting the onus on other elployers | :23:15. | :23:15. | |
to conjure up extra hours. In terms of the impact of these | :23:16. | :23:27. | |
cuts, it is important we understand, no, I have moved on, it is hmportant | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
to understand that new clailants for Universal Credit will be | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
significantly disadvantaged compared to those still claiming unddr the | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
old tax credit regime. We wdre told there will be transitional | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
protections for those migrating but my understanding is that thdse will | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
evaporate if there is a significant change in someone's circumstances | :23:51. | :23:57. | |
such as a new job, a baby or the breakdown of a relationship. In the | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
coming year a couple with two children will take home nearly 800 | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
a year more on the old systdm then they will if they have been moved to | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
Universal Credit. That is a huge disincentive to change your | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
circumstances. People on tight budgets will be reluctant to | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
increase their hours or takd a promotion if it leaves them worse | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
off, undermining work incentives and making people reluctant to love and | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
it will erode the dynamism of the system by which the Governmdnt has | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
set such store today. These disparities will cause ill feeling | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
in our communities. You could have co-workers doing the same job, | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
earning the same salary, living in similar circumstances who rdceive | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
wildly differing support. I don t know how the Government plans to | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
sell but I would not want to justify it to my in situ wants. It hs unfair | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
but what is also problematic is that parts of the UK have been | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
transitioning to Universal Credit before others so there will be | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
regional disparities in are`s where many claimants have migrated. Why | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
should people in Hammersmith, Rugby, Inverness, the areas where ht has | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
been rolled out first, recehve less support than those in towns and | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
cities last in the queue? The Government admits there will be | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
700,000 people still on the old system by the end of next ydar and | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
that is a recipe of discontdnt for those who serve as guinea phgs. | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
Cutting work allowances will not achieve the outcomes the Government | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
claims. The weight to help hs to create jobs and boost activhty, | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
boosting tax receipts. We nded to name these cuts for what thdy are, | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
and assault on people in low paid work as part of a failed austerity | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
programme that has held back economic recovery. The Government | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
have made the wrong choice `nd have a chance to date to rethink these | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
cuts that will reduce work incentives and trapped families in | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
poverty. There is another thought of two austerity. Cutting work | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
allowances will hurt working people and I hope those who expressed | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
reservations about tax credht proposals understand this whll hurt | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
many of the same people in the same way. I hope those people will join | :26:30. | :26:37. | |
us in the lobby this afternoon. It will be obvious to the host that | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
there are many people wishing to speak in the debate and we have | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
limited time because the risk another debate following thhs one. I | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
hope in the spirit of the h`ppiness of the New Year I will not have to | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
impose a formal time-limit but members well, out of respect for | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
other members and other points of view, take six minutes or ldss to | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
complete their contributions this afternoon. We will see how the | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
experiment works, if it doesn't work we will go back to the bad old way | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
of me telling you you have to stop. Craig Williams. In the interests, | :27:16. | :27:24. | |
can I join in wishing everyone a happy New Year and I will do my best | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
to keep under six minutes. H rise to support the Government and welcome | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
Universal Credit as one of the reforms of this | :27:34. | :27:34. | |
I am proud to associate mysdlf with. At its heart is our desire to ensure | :27:35. | :27:45. | |
it always pays to go out and work. Families around the country will be | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
better off at the end of thhs Parliament with more of thehr own | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
income coming from their own earnings rather than the taxpayer. | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
The Government is determined to set our welfare system on an evdn | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
footing, that previous systdm did not work to provide those whlling to | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
work with incentives, it has often paid more to be on benefits than in | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
work and this is not sustainable. As the minister set out, we ard trying | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
to move written from that low-wage high welfare high tax society to a | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
higher wage, low welfare and low tax society and this should be seen | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
within that. We need to enstre our system protects the most vulnerable | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
and it is important to give context given what we have heard th`t under | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
the last Labour government 0.4 million people spent most of that | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
Kate trapped on photo work benefits and a number of households no member | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
had worked nearly doubled. The number of working age peopld in | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
poverty rose by around 20%. Not only did not paid to be in work of those | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
who wanted to bone themselvds trapped or on benefits or worse The | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
reforms have already seen improvement in employment | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
statistics, with employment now over 31 million, an increase of over 2 | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
million from 2010. Wages ard rising, living standards are up and we feel | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
it is the right time to makd sure the barriers to work are no longer a | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
factor in employment. Universal Credit is designed to provide that | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
certainty and as a member of the Work and Pensions committee I want | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
to set out by an impressed with that phasing in of the Department to | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
Universal Credit. People have criticised the slowness of ht but | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
that willingness to pause, to reflect, to change and start again | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
is a massive testament to this department and I encourage ht to | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
continue and not be rushed by people. This is a huge change, once | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
I am proud of, and it will help people and create opportunities It | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
is worth reiterating that the taper off 65% means financial support is | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
withdrawn at a predictable rate helping claimants to understand | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
that, there is a bit of smoke and mirrors about that but that is the | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
difference between tax credhts and these changes, the taper is | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
different from what was proposed and the smoke and mirrors we ard hearing | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
from opposite benches will be seen through. I will give way. I am | :30:34. | :30:41. | |
grateful to him for giving way. Does he understand that what we have | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
argued is after the cuts we are urging the Government to reverse | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
today, 6000 people in his constituency will be worse off in | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
2020 than otherwise? I simply do not accept that. What would be lore | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
credible on the Shadow Secrdtary of State is to come here with ` | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
practical approach to changd the system rather than up posing | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
everything this Government tried to do, the last Labour governmdnt | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
failed this country and field corridor north, and all we need to | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
see is to look at the Labour Welsh Government to see their track record | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
at creating opportunities and I stand by these changes. Thank you. | :31:28. | :31:36. | |
Not only does Universal Credit encourage people into work, it | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
supports them through the process, and I want to pay tribute working | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
with organisations like Reading Partnership that produced a survey | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
among young people of barridrs to work and one thing they said was | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
about consistent career advhce and these work coaches will change | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
things around for a youth opportunities, having somebody to | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
look after you through the Pearl journey is something I welcome and I | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
do not think the opponent should be as jovial about that. This gives | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
claimants the confidence to start a job without going through the Rocker | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
C of changing a benefit clahm. We need to appreciate the | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
transformational element, 98% of people who sign on did it online, a | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
massive change in how we opdrate and it is welcome. It is being rolled | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
out in a safe and controlled manager, the minister already | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
touched on this but it is worth dwelling on, if we look at findings | :32:42. | :32:49. | |
from September 2015, it does show that 71% of Universal Credit | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
claimants moved into work in the first nine months of the cl`im, | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
compared to 63% of GSA clailants. Universal Credit claimants on | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
average work 12 days more than comparable GSA claimants and we need | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
to recognise that. We need to provide proper support to m`ke sure | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
people can achieve their ambitions and do not remain trapped in an | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
unfair system like the prevhous one. We have it in place measures to | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
affect changes to work allowance, the transitional arrangements are in | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
place which ensure claimants who are migrated onto Universal Credit, it | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
is worth emphasising this, by DWP do not see their benefit entitlements | :33:38. | :33:44. | |
fall in cash terms. I want to dwell on the taper relief because it | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
remains at 65% and I want to see this over because there was smoke | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
and mirrors from the Shadow Secretary for state, unlike the | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
planned tax credit changes which would have seen a rise in the taper, | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
the savings are achieved without increasing the effective marginal | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
loss, a benefit for every ?0 earned as a claimant moves into work or | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
takes more hours, meaning claimants are not affected. I am award you | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
will want to get everyone end so I will conclude, but this is ` huge, | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
massive transition from a sxstem that the last Labour governlent | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
presided over which just is not fit for purpose, isn't sustainable and | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
isn't affordable for this country. I welcome the changes, I welcome the | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
Universal Credit roll out and as a member of the Work and Penshons | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
committee will rule -- welcome the roll out thus far. I think Tniversal | :34:48. | :34:56. | |
Credit is a sensible idea, ht has potential to make this systdm | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
simpler, in particular to m`ke it clearer to people what their | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
financial position will be hf they move into work and we always said | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
that is set, it is not a panacea, ministers often tell us it hs a | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
solution to old problems, btt it is a helpful step, its deliverx has | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
been a shambles. It went very badly wrong at the start, ministers | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
accepted terrible advice about how long this would take, that July 20 | :35:26. | :35:33. | |
10th green paper on 21st-century welfare said the IT changes that | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
would be necessary to delivdr Universal Credit would not | :35:39. | :35:46. | |
constitute a major IT project. How anybody persuaded themselves that | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
replacing the entire buffet system would not be a major IT project is | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
beyond me but that was the naivety that underpinned the leadership of | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
the project at the outset, warnings from the side of the House `nd | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
others were cheerily waved `side and it was not until September 2013 when | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
the National Audit Office rdported that shafts of light were trained on | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
what was going on, they said the programme suffered from weak | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
management, and effective control and poor governance, and thdy were | :36:20. | :36:27. | |
right. I will give way. Does he agree that during his distinguished | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
spell in office in government, there was a considerable waste of | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
taxpayers' money on IT projdcts and those lessons have now been applied | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
and there is significant incremental progress being made in the delivery | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
of this reform? We were told in 2010 those lessons had been learned and | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
it would be different. It is true we have not got a major IT project we | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
have two major IT projects hn parallel, the live service `nd | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
digital service. Nobody has yet told us when those systems will be | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
brought together and undoubtedly large amounts of money are being | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
wasted, but I wanted to spend a couple of minutes addressing the | :37:18. | :37:20. | |
question of how far behind schedule is Universal Credit now? Thhs | :37:21. | :37:27. | |
Secretary for state always tells us, and if we spoke at the beginning of | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
this debate, he would have told us it is on track because he always | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
said that. The Office for Btdget Responsibility at the Autumn | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
Statement told us the project has been substantively delayed on at | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
least three occasions, so how far behind is it? When it began we were | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
told the transition would bd complete in 2017, and absurd claim | :37:52. | :37:58. | |
but that was the claim. In 2012 the belief was transition would take | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
five years from that point. Having failed to deliver on that d`te, | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
ministers have refused to announce a risk arrived date, -- revisdd date. | :38:09. | :38:17. | |
The Autumn Statement indicated the Government now indicates and the | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
honourable member for buck, made this point in her speech, the | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
Government appears to expect the roll-out to be complete by 2021 so | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
exactly as in 2012, the Govdrnment in 2016 now expects the roll out of | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
Universal Credit to take another five years from the state. The | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
completion date has gone back for years in the last four years. | :38:43. | :38:52. | |
In the desert to allege that universal credit is running for | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
years later? Let's look at some other milestones, not just the | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
completion date. A press release was published on the first Novelber 2011 | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
which said, over 1 million people will be claiming universal credit by | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
April 2014, the Work and Pensions Secretary announced. April 2014 is | :39:16. | :39:23. | |
nearly two years ago and thdy are not 1 million people receivhng, the | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
latest figure is 5000. The Office for Budget Responsibility now | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
expects there will be 1 million by April 20 18. Let's take another one. | :39:34. | :39:43. | |
The Secretary of State annotnced in another press release, on 24th of | :39:44. | :39:55. | |
May 2012, all-new claims to current benefits and credits will bd | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
entirely phased out by April 20 14. They have not been willing to | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
announce when they now expect all-new claims to be phased out but | :40:06. | :40:14. | |
the House of Commons librarx has worked out by reading betwedn the | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
lines of opaque statements from ministers that they now expdct new | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
claims to be closed down by June 2000 18. That is a bit more than | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
four years late compared to what we were originally told. Universal | :40:30. | :40:39. | |
credit is at least four years late. It will undoubtedly slept for that | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
and equally certainly we will continue to be told it is on track. | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
Management has been a shambles and they are still key outstandhng | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
policy issues we have not bden told about. Which recipients are going to | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
be entitled to free school leals for their children. We have been waiting | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
for an answer to that for fhve years and it makes an enormous difference | :41:07. | :41:08. | |
because the way the governmdnt appears to be intending to `nswer | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
that question is going to introduce a huge new cliff edge into the | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
Social Security system far worse than anything in the prior system, | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
even though the whole point was supposed to be to get rid of | :41:23. | :41:30. | |
disincentives of that kind. I want finally to pick up on the points so | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
well made by my honourable friend in his opening speech about thd way | :41:34. | :41:41. | |
that the changes announced to universal credit since first | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
announced are undermining so fatally its objectives. In the earlx | :41:45. | :41:52. | |
debates, they used to make ` lot of the fact that universal credit was | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
going to cost more than ?2 billion a year more than the previous system. | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
That is not true and it will cost ?3.7 billion a year less, and the | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
way that has been done is to erode the work incentives that were | :42:08. | :42:10. | |
supposed to be legal point of doing it in first place. I want to end on | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
the point that the whole hotse has accepted that it would have been | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
wrong to go ahead with the tax credit cuts that would have had such | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
huge impact on reducing the incomes of working families. Two or ?30 0 a | :42:26. | :42:34. | |
year from people with the household income of 20,000, the whole house | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
accepts that would have been wrong, yet the government is going ahead | :42:40. | :42:42. | |
precisely what those cuts for a relatively small number of people | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
who are in work and claiming universal credit. If we havd all | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
accepted that is wrong to h`ve such Draconian cuts imposed on the | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
incomes of those claiming t`x credits, why is it right to go ahead | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
with precisely those cuts on the incomes of working families in | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
receipt of universal credit? I intervenes to ask that question to | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
the Minister three times and each time he told us he will comd to that | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
later in his speech but unfortunately he did not. If he is | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
able to get to that, and explain, my honourable friend is absolutely | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
right that all through this process we were told there would be | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
transitional protection and yet this group, 50,000 people, already | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
receiving universal credit, are going to suffer enormous cuts in | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
their income. Because of ch`nges to the universal credit. It can't be | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
right and the government has to change its mind. Thank you for | :43:49. | :43:56. | |
calling me to speak in this debate on universal credit, we seel to have | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
had endless debates on univdrsal credit over the last 5-6 ye`rs. I am | :44:01. | :44:08. | |
sure we will have many more. It was opened today what they call from the | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
Shadow Secretary of State to reverse the work allowance changes to | :44:12. | :44:21. | |
universal credit. I sensed that the member for Ponty Pred wanted to | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
reverse every welfare cuts lade by this government and its predecessor | :44:27. | :44:29. | |
because after all he and his colleagues that oppose everx penny | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
of savings that are put forward in the last Coalition Government, but | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
he cannot do that, partly bdcause he actually stood on a manifesto that | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
would have only reversed thd smallest welfare savings, on the | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
spear bedroom subsidy, and partly because he signed up to ?12 billion | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
of welfare savings, but he didn t tell us today either that hhs | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
government or party if it w`s elected into government with the | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
reverse all of the changes, or how he would find his 12 million of | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
savings. He had quite a long go early. The reason he didn't say | :45:10. | :45:17. | |
anything... If there are no changes either to tax credits for housing | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
benefits, you will not find ?12 billion of welfare savings, and so I | :45:24. | :45:30. | |
suspect he either has not got a policy at all or he has got | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
something pretty horrific on housing benefit that the House needs to hear | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
about. After his win the eloquence, we then had slightly later the | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
relatives still, small voicd of calm from the right Honourable mdmber for | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
East Ham. He described univdrsal credit as a sensible idea btt whose | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
implementation was a shamblds. I would describe universal crddit as | :46:01. | :46:04. | |
an inspired idea but one th`t his own at that time Chancellor | :46:05. | :46:11. | |
described as too complicated to be taken up by his party. I wotld agree | :46:12. | :46:18. | |
that it has been overoptimistic Lee implemented so far, but that it is | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
happening, and I have seen ht happen and we will come onto that, because | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
I am not sure how many membdrs opposite have gone to their local | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
job centre to find out how ht is happening, and it is alreadx | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
delivering real and positivd change to the lives of my and many other | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
constituents. You can criticise a project that is delayed but | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
happening and successfully so, when you said was impossible to do the | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
project at all, but it risks looking like carping, which is not worthy of | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
the right Honourable member for East Ham. The truth is that the Labour | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
Party cannot make up their linds whether to say universal crddit was | :47:00. | :47:10. | |
a bad idea full stop, whethdr it is a complete or partial shambles, or | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
whether it is a good idea btt we are not sure whether it will be a | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
shambles, and the art half hoping that universal credit will collapse | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
and then they can criticise it more and call again and again for my | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
right honourable friend the Work and Pensions Secretary to resign, or | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
that actually in their heart of hearts that they should support | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
universal credit because it is the right thing to do and will be | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
completely transformative to the working opportunities of so many | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
people in the country. The reason universal credit is right is | :47:46. | :47:52. | |
absolutely clear to all of ts, because when tax credits were | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
introduced, they were a moddst cost to the taxpayer, but they b`llooned | :47:59. | :48:07. | |
in cost from ?6 billion in 0998 to 28 billion by 2010, and as H have | :48:08. | :48:14. | |
already hinted, the former Chancellor has described more | :48:15. | :48:16. | |
eloquently than any others could hear today that project had run | :48:17. | :48:24. | |
miles away from its original intentions, and so something | :48:25. | :48:26. | |
launched with the best posshble intention to help people on low | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
wages had become a massive cost and not just the cost in itself but | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
generating huge interest costs as well, that were simply unsustainable | :48:36. | :48:41. | |
for this country. Particularly so after the great recession of 20 7-9. | :48:42. | :48:49. | |
In their heart of hearts, everyone in this house must recognisd that | :48:50. | :48:55. | |
universal credit is the way forward, and I cannot believe there hs a | :48:56. | :48:57. | |
member here today who has bden a member for more than a few xears who | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
has not got letters from constituents describing how their | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
life on welfare makes it impossible for them to want to go to work, | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
because they would be worse off working. I also cannot belidve that | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
members here have not had mdetings with employers and constitudncies | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
who have described to them the numbers of times they have offered | :49:22. | :49:24. | |
people working for them prolotions or additional salary and actually | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
been told, we do not want that promotion, we will be worse off | :49:32. | :49:34. | |
because we will lose more in benefits than they would gahn from | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
that promotion. Tax credits were ending up as a disincentive to | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
aspiration and achievement, and members opposite from the SNP may be | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
shaking their heads but that is what the truth is, and what is also true | :49:49. | :49:55. | |
is that unfortunately the wdlfare programmes that were introdtced by | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
the previous Labour governmdnt ended up during that period of grdat | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
recession, when 6000 people in my constituency lost their jobs and | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
ended up trapped on welfare, with no incentive to go back to work. Madam | :50:10. | :50:15. | |
Deputy Speaker, that is the background to the debate on | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
universal credit. It is absolutely vital for a country that it works | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
properly. For those of us who have been to job centre plusses. We will | :50:26. | :50:33. | |
know that it is in place and working very well for single people. Where | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
it has not yet been introduced in Gloucester in my constituency is for | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
families where there are two people, perhaps in and out of work or in low | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
paid jobs, with children as well. That is the more complicated element | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
of universal credit and my honourable friend on the front | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
benches today, if they are `ble to add more about how the succdss of | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
the roll-out of universal credit is going, that will be reassurhng to | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
everyone. I have seen it in place in London and it does seem to be | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
working well. I am conscious that they are time limits so I whll bring | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
this hastily to a conclusion. The oh 156,000 people already on universal | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
credit and receiving the benefits effectively. The ones I havd met my | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
constituency are definitely any better placed than they werd before, | :51:31. | :51:37. | |
it is absolutely vital that universal credit continues to move | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
forward as quickly as possible and I suspect that figure will advance | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
rapidly during this Parliamdnt and we should all wish it well. The | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
changes debated today are all part of a move from higher wage `nd lower | :51:52. | :51:59. | |
tax away from what we were left with 102010, which was wages that were | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
too low and taxes too high, unsustainable welfare and the system | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
that was no longer working, so Madam Deputy Speaker, today let md finish | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
just saying that I understand the emotional appeals to the spdech | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
early hour but it is absolutely vital that we do reduce the cost for | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
tax credits and wealthier than provide people with the system that | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
incentivises them to work through universal credit. My happy New Year | :52:27. | :52:35. | |
and experiment has not workdd, so I will now impose a formal tile limit | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
of six minutes on backbench speeches. | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
I would like to start off I reassuring the honourable mdmber for | :52:44. | :52:51. | |
Gloucester that I think Universal Credit is an utter total sh`mbles | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
and I would like to invite him to my in situ unsafe to speak to | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
constituents who are claiming enough at speakers all of them are in work | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
already and tax credits did not stop them from going to work, its | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
incentive I is then to go to work, and he needs to visit places in | :53:10. | :53:16. | |
London to dispel the truth that people claiming benefits ard | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
scroungers because they are working hard but work does not pay. I never | :53:22. | :53:29. | |
said, would never say and I do not leave anyone in this House would say | :53:30. | :53:37. | |
people looking for work are scroungers. You implied it hn my | :53:38. | :53:45. | |
opinion. I will go back to ly speech. In January 2012, a | :53:46. | :53:52. | |
considerable period of time before I entered the House, I listendd to the | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
Secretary of State tell the House that Universal Credit roll-out was | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
on track and on budget. Sevdral years later and aliens of pounds of | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
expense to the taxpayer latdr, his claim that I am not complacdnt about | :54:09. | :54:15. | |
delivery has not stood the test of time. Millions of family is across | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
the country, have faced perhods of relentless anxiety over the future | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
of their welfare support and 20 5 did not bring fresh hope. The DWP | :54:29. | :54:35. | |
select committee's report in September revealed the roll,out of | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
Universal Credit from oral `scent to resolving the final outstanding | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
legacy payments could stretch beyond a decade. The Government promised | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
that Universal Credit would reach 4.5 million people by the 2015 | :54:49. | :54:56. | |
general election. This has not happened. The Secretary of State may | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
be content for his department to cruise through endless trial and | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
ever but delays to the roll,out have been at a significant cost to the | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
taxpayer, with the major projects at the revealing an increase of ?3 | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
billion in the past two years. The bill now stands at a staggering 15.8 | :55:18. | :55:25. | |
William. If the Secretary of State truly understands the presstres | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
faced by claimants, he will apologise for the years of `nxiety | :55:29. | :55:35. | |
is delays have subjected thdm to. The Autumn Statement contradicts the | :55:36. | :55:42. | |
ridiculous claim that nobodx loses a penny through these changes. They | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
also marked the end of the Chancellor's claim at a Conservative | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
Party conference that the Tories are the new workers party. Nothhng could | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
be further from the truth. Cuts to the work allowance are so sdvere it | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
will mean single people and couples with no depth and children would | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
lose out the moment they st`rt work. Listen to the facts. The poorest 20% | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
in our country are set to lose between 6% and 8% of their hncome on | :56:16. | :56:23. | |
average. Listen to Paul Johnson director of the Institute for Fiscal | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
Studies, stating that 2.6 mhllion families would be an averagd 16 0 | :56:28. | :56:36. | |
pounds a year worse off. Further to this, a point made by my honourable | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
friend for East Ham, we know transitional protections for | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
payments moving from the old system to Universal Credit will only | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
provide 200 million against a background of ?3 billion of cuts. We | :56:53. | :56:58. | |
know transitional protections are dropped when a claimant was my | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
circumstances change and new claimant will not be protected | :57:03. | :57:10. | |
whatsoever. Is she aware thd IFS has said anyone transferred into | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
Universal Credit will be protected, will not be worse off in cash terms? | :57:15. | :57:21. | |
I have not seen that, what H have seen is what I have reiterated, | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
which shows 2.6 million working families will be on average ?16 0 | :57:27. | :57:33. | |
worse off and he needs to look at the stats in inner London to see | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
this will be true. Given thd tendency for new claimant, the | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
prevalence of low paid jobs crewed by this Government and the | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
impossibility of the so-called national living wage to mithgate | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
cuts to the work allowance, the Secretary of State must upd`te the | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
House as to whether he still stands by his claims that no one loses a | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
penny through these changes. We need a government that is working towards | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
an economy where employers, city leaders and central governmdnt work | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
together to ensure economic growth creates new opportunities and | :58:13. | :58:15. | |
high-quality jobs. Instead the Government is embracing cuts that | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
will worsen the bleak picture of deprivation across the country, | :58:21. | :58:25. | |
especially in inner London. Earlier in the debate I made the pohnt about | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
the rise of homelessness and did not get an answer from the minister but | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
I would like to know if he acknowledges the changes to welfare | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
will increase the number of people sleeping rough on the streets of | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
London? As a London MP I have fears that the growth in homelessness and | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
destitution seen in the caphtal will only be made worse by these changes | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
to welfare. An independent `nalysis by the IFS, the resolution `nd | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
evidence of the select commhttee 's report, all acknowledge the | :59:02. | :59:07. | |
consequences of that cuts to the lowest paid when they are eventually | :59:08. | :59:09. | |
signed up to receive Universal Credit. I fear the decisions being | :59:10. | :59:15. | |
pushed through will ensure lany in Hamstead and Todd Byrne will reach | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
breaking point. Many people are already making the choice bdtween | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
eating and heating. Eight thousand of my constituents are expected to | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
be an Universal Credit by the time it is ruled out properly. It is not | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
too late for the Government to rethink cuts to the work allowance | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
if they have any ambition to increase earnings. Higher, lore | :59:40. | :59:47. | |
stable levels of pay is the only way to improve financial security and | :59:48. | :59:52. | |
move people out of poverty. The Secretary of State celebratdd in | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
this House when his so-calldd national living wage was announced | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
but he must reflect upon cheerleading in the base of the | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
stark reality that Britain's low and middle income families down to lose | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
thousands of pounds under this flagship all say, so I would ask him | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
to carefully reconsider where he thinks his legacy lies and whether | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
he wants to put low and middle income families through this trial | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
they will face when Univers`l Credit is rolled out. Thank you. The motion | :00:25. | :00:34. | |
that members opposite are asking us to consider today is a simple one. | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
Again they are asking us to dock a difficult decision. I would like to | :00:41. | :00:48. | |
speak briefly, hopefully make up sometime, about why such an approach | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
is as sustainable. We have two major problems. The first is that we | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
continue to live beyond our means. When we on this side came into | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
government we were spending ?4 for every ?3 we were burning, which | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
meant we had them biggest btdget deficit in peacetime historx. We | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
have made progress with this, we have more than halved it, this | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
budget has been more than h`ve in the deficit, but we have a distance | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
to go with this problem of ` high tax low-wage and high welfare | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
economy and at the root of ht lies the situation we inherited hn 2 10 | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
when people on the minimum `ge were working hard but still having to pay | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
tax and have their wages subsidised through the welfare system. As a | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
result nine out of ten workhng families were having some sort of | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
benefit payment, and this fhght all the additional spending, it wasn't | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
working, as we heard in work poverty rose by 20%. This level of borrowing | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
and welfare spending is not sustainable. Under the last | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
government there was an extra ? 000 spending for every household in this | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
country and that spending is burdening our children and | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
grandchildren with addition`l borrowing simply to pay for current | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
welfare spending at a time when countries around the world `re | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
taking difficult decisions, facing rising competition from the East, | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
living with this burden of welfare spending paid for by borrowhng, paid | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
for by our children, is not sustainable. When this partx came | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
into power we came forward with a plan to deal with this. First on the | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
deficit we said part of the reductions had to be funded by 12 | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
billion of welfare savings. Members opposite could say we shouldn't | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
achieve ?12 billion of welf`re savings but I have yet to hdar a | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
suggestion for the alternathve. There are only three altern`tives, | :03:18. | :03:25. | |
either put up taxes... Which like to make an intervention? As adlirable | :03:26. | :03:33. | |
as his party may feel his efforts are in saying we have to cut | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
welfare, the problem is unddr government spending welfare has | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
persistent leak gone up, thd amount of money we are spending on welfare | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
is more than it was before, so your tactics do not work in the real | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
world. I think she means thd honourable gentleman's tacthcs. I | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
would ask her to look at thd facts. I believe the OBR is projecting a | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
decline in the proportion of national income spent on welfare | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
during this argument, so thd plan is working, but if you don't w`nt to | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
reduce welfare spending, thdre are only three alternatives. Either | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
members can choose to cut spending on public services. Nobody has | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
suggested instead of making this reform we cut spending on the | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
National Health Service or on education. War members could | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
advocate an increase in personal taxation or other taxation. I happen | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
to think we already have unsustainably high levels of | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
taxation. The third choice hs that members opposite... Am gratdful to | :04:52. | :04:59. | |
him for giving way. What will he say to some 7000 people who will be | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
worse off on Universal Credht by 2020 about the nearly ?1 billion to | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
his party is spending and cttting inheritance tax on houses worth the | :05:11. | :05:19. | |
twain 300 and ?6 million. I do not recognise those figures but I know | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
in my Kindle constituency 5000 people have been lifted out of | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
paying tax altogether. Unemployment is down by 11% and a result of tax | :05:31. | :05:39. | |
cuts introduced by this Govdrnment, 47,000 people have seen a rdduction | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
in the amount of tax they p`id. This is the Government's plan in action, | :05:44. | :05:51. | |
moving from a low-wage, high welfare, high tax economy to way | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
higher wage, low welfare, low tax economy and the result is that | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
unemployment continues to f`ll at a record pace, two point 2 million | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
more people since the party on this side came into fat have sectrity, a | :06:07. | :06:14. | |
regular pay packet, and a job to provide for themselves and their | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
families and that is a record we can all be proud of. If the party | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
opposite does not have an alternative plan on spending, do | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
they have a plan on welfare reform? On this side there is a cle`r plan | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
for welfare reform. We are saying we will introduce Universal Crddit to | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
remove the perverse incentives we have seen which have been dhscussed | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
extensively, whereby employdes are refusing to take a pay rise because | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
they fear the reduction in their benefits will be greater th`n the | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
benefits they receive from the additional pay. Secondly, wd're | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
increasing the personal allowance, under this Government by thd end of | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
Parliament the personal allowance will be 12 point ?5,000, lifting | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
those working 35 hours a wedk on minimum wage out of tax, reloving | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
the absurd situation where people on the minimum wage per paying tax and | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
having it recycled to the sxstem, and we are introducing a national | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
living wage made possible bdcause we have been so successful in reducing | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
unemployment, employers can bear the burden of that higher national | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
living wage and the effect hs that we will cease to subsidise low paid | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
jobs whether they are in supermarkets, the cleaning hndustry, | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
with welfare payments. I thhnk this is a sensible plan which whdn | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
combined with help on childcare and other measures introduced bx this | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
Government offer as a route towards the higher pay lower welfard, lower | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
tax economy we desire, so this is the choice faced by this Hotse, do | :08:06. | :08:13. | |
we stick with a plan that h`s seen 2.2 million more people havhng | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
security and stability of a job with a plan which will see the | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
deficit even limited during the Parliament so we've I run a surplus | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
and start spending less than we earn so when the next crisis hits we have | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
some sort of cushion to deal with that, and do we start reforling the | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
nature of our welfare systel with the reforms introduced eithdr | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
Secretary of State for welf`re and his ministers? Would do we take the | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
approach advocated by the p`rty opposite which is to bury otr heads | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
in the sound, pretend the problem does not exist, carry on borrowing | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
for ever and burden are children and grandchildren with what the party | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
opposite, when they were led by the likes of Mr Blair and Mr Brown, used | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
to describe as the bells of social failure, we are tackling thousand I | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
am proud of the approach taken by my party. | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
of the I have two reduce thd time but once again to five minutes and | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
perhaps I should remind the House, because perhaps newer members have | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
forgotten, that if one makes a speech in this chamber, then it is | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
courteous and required by the rules of the House that one stays in the | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
chamber, certainly for the speech following your own speech, `nd | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
usually for at least two spdeches thereafter. The people who have not | :09:43. | :09:51. | |
done so today know who they are But thank you for calling me and it is | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
an absolute delight, I am grateful for this debate taking placd. My | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
constituency of Rochdale was included in the pilot roll-out of | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
the universal scheme and thdy will be feeling the full force of the | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
dreadful cuts that have comd along with this scheme is implemented Let | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
me start by saying IV men ftlly committed to getting as manx people | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
out of the benefits system `s is absolutely possible. We need to | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
reduce the burden on the welfare bill. We must do all we can to get | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
people into regular well-pahd work, but to do so at such a high price | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
for those least fortunate is not the way to do it. We must be cldar that | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
these cuts will affect hard,working people. These are not peopld who are | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
work-shy. These are the verx people that we should and must be | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
supporting. The Chancellor was right to do a U-turn on the proposed cuts | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
to tax credits. They were not warrant attack on the financial | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
well-being of millions of hard-working people in Brit`in, and | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
more than 7000 people in my constituency of Rochdale. Btt here | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
we are faced with the same work penalty albeit in a different name. | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
The cuts are the same. Once again it will be the hard-working falilies | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
that suffer. The only difference being the name. This time it is cuts | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
to universal credit and not tax credits. At first it will bd those | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
on the pilot scheme who will fall victim to these cuts. Currently | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
140,000 people. As we have seen too often under this government and the | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
last, it will be the north who suffers first, with 75,000 hn the | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
north-east being part of thd current roll-out in my own constitudncy of | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
Rochdale, currently there are just over 1400 people claiming universal | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
credit who will see their household budget cuts. They will face | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
increasing pressure when thdy need to pay their rent and incre`singly | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
struggle to put food on thehr table. It will become harder for them to | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
support their children. Howdver this is not just about those currently on | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
the pilot scheme of univers`l credit. The cuts will in tile affect | :12:10. | :12:18. | |
many more. After the initial cuts in 2016 to the 140,000, there will then | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
be a postcode lottery of whom the roll-out affects, and in thd longer | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
term up to 1.6 million workhng families could be worse off by 020, | :12:28. | :12:36. | |
to a sum of something like ?160 . A single mother of two working | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
full-time on universal credht in 2016-17 will be worse off to the | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
tune of ?2981, compared to someone on tax credits. These cuts will also | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
show a sharp decline in the award for people taking on more work. The | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
House of Commons library has shown that a single parent of one early | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
new minimum wage will only hncrease their wage packet by ?40 by working | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
an extra 12 hours, when prior to the cuts this would amount to an | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
increase of ?92. The Conservatives continue to perpetuate the rhetoric | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
that the reward those who w`nt to get on. This is simply not true | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
Only proven by the proposed cuts to tax credits and proposed cuts to the | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
work element of universal credit. Let me finish, Madam Deputy Speaker, | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
by saying only this week th`t wage growth in the Conservatives will be | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
the worst for 100 years, as from 2010-2020 wage growth is expected to | :13:41. | :13:48. | |
be only 6.2%. First with cuts to the work element of the univers`l | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
credit, the lowest paid in society will suffer massively at thd hands | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
of this government. I urge the party opposite to reverse these ctts to | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
universal credit for current and future claimants to protect these | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
hard-working people. Thank xou. It is a great privilege to contribute | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
to this debate. I think it goes to the heart of this government's | :14:15. | :14:25. | |
approach to the form in our society. -- reform. The universal crddit will | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
be the critical measure of success for this government and I think in | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
the wake of the tax credit debate, it is very easy to be distr`cted by | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
how significant the univers`l credit is. Time and time again, well worn | :14:39. | :14:47. | |
problems with our current wdlfare system have been shown to not be | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
able to be solved by thinking about -- tinkering around the edgds of the | :14:54. | :15:01. | |
previous welfare system. As we listen to representations on benefit | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
delivery and welfare to work and on tax credits, it makes absoltte sense | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
to have radical reform across the benefits system. The universal | :15:12. | :15:19. | |
credit achieves three games. Making benefits more like being in work, | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
monthly payments, getting rhd of the distinction between benefits like | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
working tax credits and jobseeker's allowance, removing the need for | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
reapplication. Piggybacking onto peers you are via real-time | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
information, and this would deal with the vast number of bendfit | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
delivery issues that the success of work and pensions committees have | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
addressed. Finally, benefit simplification. Claimants who quite | :15:47. | :15:54. | |
reasonably find it difficult to work out what they are entitled to. This | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
effort by this government and by the Secretary of State for Work and | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
Pensions, who has been in this post that eminently for five and a half | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
years, battling those who h`ve been cynical about the necessary | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
adjustments that he has had to make, and I remember in my previots | :16:16. | :16:17. | |
employment before coming to this house working in an IT constlting | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
firm, when they won a contr`ct under the previous government to deliver a | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
significant project for the NHS only to see that a few years later, | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
several billion pounds were written off because that project was not run | :16:35. | :16:41. | |
properly. I don't particularly want to make a party political point | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
because I think complex IT systems, to be delivered by any government, | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
is incredibly difficult. I think the Secretary of State has shown | :16:53. | :16:54. | |
admirable determination in the face of great cynicism, and a lack of | :16:55. | :17:00. | |
clarity from the opposition benches on exactly what should be ddlivered. | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
Are they in favour of universal credit? Are in favour of it if it | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
works at a time scale they think is politically expedient? Or do they | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
have a credible and well thought through alternative that will | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
deliver the quantity to say things that they deliver to in thehr | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
manifesto? Because I listendd very carefully to the speech by the | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
member for Banff and Buchan, who quite reasonably say is that we must | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
in this house look at the ddtail and we mustn't make grand statelents. We | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
must also recognise, as my honourable friend pointed ott, that | :17:44. | :17:50. | |
they are real consequences of not making the changes that we have set | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
out, and not delivering the savings that this government has based its | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
projections for our public finances. We do not need to be distracted by | :18:04. | :18:11. | |
the speed of universal credht delivery. We can be very positive | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
about the progress that has now been made, and the DWP recently `nnounced | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
before Christmas that the universal credit is now in the three puarters | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
of job centres, and it is mx expectation from the evidence that I | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
have seen, that everything hs moving in the right direction to sde the | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
film delivery of universal credit in the timescale that is set ott. This | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
government's legacy will be enhanced by the fact that universal credit is | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
not a stand-alone measure. The reforms to the personal allowance, | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
the national living wage, rhsing wages, economic growth delivering | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
record jobs, and the simplified benefits system, and the detail of | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
work coaches helping those who need assistance will be a compelling | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
legacy, and I regret the fact that the opposition have brought this | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
motion to the House today. H think it is misguided and I will be voting | :19:09. | :19:19. | |
against it. Thank you. I wotld like to echo the sentiments of all my | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
honourable friends about how this will affect working families in the | :19:24. | :19:25. | |
country and I am especially concerned about the effects on | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
single parents. The changes to the universal credit are complex and | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
difficult to judge from people already receiving benefits. Make no | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
mistake, the same uproar will come in the tax credit debate in this | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
house, we arrested and spokd for the 24,000 children in Birmingh`m | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
Yardley who would be worse off by those changes. In contrast, on that | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
date I could only find four properties in my constituency that | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
would benefit from the inheritance tax changes, and thanks to the fact | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
universal credit has been record-breaking lace lo, on April | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
2016 the changes will only potentially affect 760 housdholds in | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
my constituency, but that is still 756 more families hit hard lan will | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
benefit from the inheritancd tax changes. I think it is safe to say, | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
that other than perhaps we four families who lets not forget have to | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
be dead first, the residents in my constituency see the same old Tory | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
government protecting and rdwarding the richest. In order a smack in | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
honour of these Tories sticking to their type, I shall stick to take | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
and speak about domestic and sexual violence victims. One of thd | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
problems is that it all gets paid to one person in a household. H have | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
met countless women who havd kept small and some money to savd up to | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
help set themselves and thehr children free. I have also let too | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
many women whose financial control is the worst and most limithng part | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
of the abuse. Walking away from violence and threat is never easy. | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
It is nearly impossible if xou have nothing. I recognise that the DWP | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
have bowed to pressure and dxpected that split payments should be | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
available in cases of domestic violence, when reported to the | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
benefits advisor or guesswork person. -- the work person. There is | :21:30. | :21:38. | |
a deal problem with this scheme and that is the same as with thd two | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
child policy coming down thd line when considering children born of | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
rate. The government expects women who are terrified to rock up to the | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
local job centre and tell staff they have been raped or that thex are | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
husband beats and controls them What do we think violent partners | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
will do when they find half the finds stunning? I have tabldd some | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
parliamentary questions abott how many people have asked for split | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
payments and perhaps all my years of experience are wrong and people are | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
just skipping into neighbourhood officers happy to disclose their | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
worst fears. I understand the power of the points she is making but one | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
of the subtle changes is th`t for the first time they will have named | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
contact who will get to know and understand them, and if thex can | :22:32. | :22:33. | |
spot signs that have been highlighted, bacon Spotlight support | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
and it may encourage people. I know it is difficult but it is another | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
opportunity for people to then get the support they absolutely need. | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
I suppose in answering the point I will continue to what I was going to | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
say and I hope is the roll-out continues these issues will be | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
addressed, but when domestic violence victims have to prove to | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
legal aid processes they were victims, they needed proof from | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
either the police or a doctor, and in some cases were charged for a | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
letter proving they were victims. The managing victims of domdstic | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
violence tell anyone who will listen they are a big before the Government | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
recognises them is inhumane. I thank her for raising this issue, it is | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
important, but the cheese share my concern there have been no details | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
on what this burden of proof will be or how women are expected to go | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
about that? I share that concern and commend her for all the work she is | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
doing on this issue. We havd seen in the past as we have limited services | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
and what we can provide in this case in terms of legal aid, to domestic | :23:54. | :24:00. | |
and sexual violence victims, how a woman's word should be enough. It | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
has always been enough for le. I never made anybody prove thdy were a | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
victim when they wanted to come into refuge but for the Government what | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
proof will be needed? I leave that for the minister to take aw`y. I | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
understand the Government h`s aged five to bring down welfare dven | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
though they have repeatedly failed on this task. There is a desire for | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
the people opposite, and I wish we could today draw a line and stop | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
this, to pitch people who t`ke against people who give, but did | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
truth that the Government f`ils to realise again and again is that we | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
are all taxpayers. There is not a distinct group of people who pay | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
nothing, and I will wager everyone in this room has been for whll be on | :24:51. | :24:57. | |
some sort of state benefit because I bet all our mums and dads h`d their | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
family allowances as we called it. Even the Chancellor, a man H believe | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
has got a bob or two, admitted for his children he claimed child | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
benefit. What a scrounger! Dverybody contributes and everybody t`kes The | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
single parents on low wages who will be hit by these changes are no | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
better or worse than any of us here and in my opinion they deserve to be | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
treated better than a dead person with a posh house. Thank yot, Madam | :25:32. | :25:41. | |
Deputy Speaker. I am delighted we are debating Universal Credht as | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
already those on the side of the House have eloquently quashdd the | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
myths and rumours about Universal Credit but I buy those opposite | :25:49. | :25:59. | |
Probably the most frequent reason constituents come to my advhce | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
services arm when tax payments are in a mess and they owe thousands of | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
pounds. This is a system we inherited in 2010 that is not fit | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
for purpose. This Government is again sorting out the mess left | :26:15. | :26:17. | |
behind by the party oppositd, created by a tax credit system that | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
did not encourage financially able who wanted to work to actually go to | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
work. Universal Credit is at the heart of this Government's welfare | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
reforms and is ensuring everyone who can work is encouraged to do so The | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
way it combined six benefits into one is the right way to go. | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
Universal Credit is being rolled out in my constituency and on Friday I | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
have a meeting planned at Btxton job centre to get an up date on his | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
progress. Earlier this year I met a member of staff from the job centre | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
at a business meeting and hd told me how good Universal Credit w`s and he | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
wanted it to be rolled out puicker, but I think we have the right | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
approach in measured roll otts that will benefit long-term. The latest | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
data as of November 2015 shows the total number of unemployed claimants | :27:18. | :27:25. | |
in air wash was 1058, representing just two point 3% of the active | :27:26. | :27:34. | |
population. This includes 943 people claiming job-seeker's allow`nce The | :27:35. | :27:41. | |
good news that these figures are 245 lower than November 2014 and | :27:42. | :27:49. | |
represents a fall of 59% since 010, and I am sure all those people | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
already own Universal Credit appreciate its benefits and many | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
will now be in work since the figures came out. People cl`iming | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
Universal Credit by 13% mord likely to be in work than people claiming | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
jobseeker's allowance and are earning more money than it would to | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
take a job. Nobody wants to be on benefits and I believe Univdrsal | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
Credit goes a long way to hdlping people be independent of and | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
efforts, and self esteem and dignity is so much higher when incole comes | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
from earnings rather than the taxpayer. This debate has evolved | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
around and efforts but I want to expand this to job opportunhties and | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
how to help people get that into work and those in work to aspire to | :28:38. | :28:44. | |
different jobs. The Prime Mhnister prior to 2010 encouraged both MPs | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
and candidates to set up voluntary job clubs and since 2010 many MPs | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
have organised successful jobs fairs. I am combining this tradition | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
established I my predecessor by having a jobs and communitids fair | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
in March, which will promotd not just job vacancies but the power of | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
volunteering, as it has been proven if people volunteer they ard more | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
likely to get into jobs and stay there long term. Like the rdcent | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
debate on tax credit Universal Credit cannot be in isolation and | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
should not be debated in thhs way. This Government is committed to | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
welfare reform as a whole. Changes to welfare must be seen as `n | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
overall package of measures. The National Living Wage will mdan a pay | :29:37. | :29:44. | |
rise by 2020 for those over 25 and working full-time. Changes hn the | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
Arsenal are low and will make more difference, in this coming xear | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
Nepal have ?80 more because of that. Increasing childcare support will | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
help people go from part tile to full-time work and also measures we | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
need to look at in total. I am disappointed that the party opposite | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
does not back the Government's measures which move us towards a | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
nation of low welfare, low tax and higher wages. A secure economy, a | :30:16. | :30:27. | |
secure future for our country. May I wish you a very happy New Ydar and | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
everyone in the House. Unfortunately it will not be a happy New Xear for | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
many people own Universal Credit. I am proud of where I come from, a | :30:39. | :30:45. | |
North West constituency. We were at the very centre of the powerhouse of | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
this country in the industrhal revolution, unfortunately wd have | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
lived through the industrialisation and struggled to provide jobs for | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
people who had good pay and manufacture but most of the jobs are | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
now service. They are insectre zero hour contracts, agency work, | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
part-time, and those that are secure are low paid. People in my | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
constituency want to work, they are hard workers, they want to be | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
respect did and they want the dignity of dividing a home for their | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
family and putting food on the table and clothing them and they struggle. | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
Many of them go to the food bank and that is not right. That is tnfair. | :31:34. | :31:46. | |
The Department for Work and Pensions would wish its feet would not touch | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
the ground to do with an assessment in taking away money from the first | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
of people, which is unacceptable. You would not get away with it in | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
local government and here wd are in central government, no impact | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
assessment, but did the Secretary of State for the Department for Work | :32:09. | :32:10. | |
and Pensions not want that assessment? He insisted people own | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
Universal Credit would not be worse off because of changes of in work | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
benefits both of the summer budget, but now they add met that is not the | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
case. At the beginning of Universal Credit it was sold as encouraging | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
people into work and people went along but were warned by all the | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
experts that it was not critical to expect it in the time frame and | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
repeatedly it has gone back and back, the roll-out. Unfortunately my | :32:43. | :32:51. | |
constituency has had its roll-out. We are now own Universal Crddit not | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
all of us but 1500 from the last assessment, families own Unhversal | :32:59. | :33:05. | |
Credit. This is November but I would rather take the House of Colmons | :33:06. | :33:16. | |
word then the Government's. Of these, 510 were in work. 510 | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
families will be affected and that backs are from the House of Commons | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
library that has not been proven no -- wrong to me, people who `re not | :33:29. | :33:37. | |
disabled will lose 2400 pounds in their income in April next xear A | :33:38. | :33:45. | |
single work couple, one or both of them disabled, will lose ?2000 in | :33:46. | :33:55. | |
April this year. People who have a single mother of two working | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
full-time will lose ?2400. The jobs in my constituency are low paid and | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
insecure, too many of them. We have many agency workers and the | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
Government has done nothing about agency workers. They turn up work | :34:13. | :34:20. | |
and are sent home, you can have a weak's work now, a week in ` | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
fortnight. We even have one agency offering two weeks' free work | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
comfortably employed and th`t they would guarantee you an interview for | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
a permanent job, but not many of them got the permanent job. We have | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
people working at Tata steel, jaguar, where they would be working | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
for 12 months but did not -, would then get full-time jobs, but it did | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
not happen. Then in seven wdeks they called some of them back fotrth | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
three weeks, and this is how it goes on in the real world. Madam Deputy | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
Speaker, what has gone wrong and the reason and efforts have gond up is | :35:07. | :35:13. | |
because the Government of today your economic strategy faildd | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
miserably, and don't talk to me about debt in this country because | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
it has a lot to do with that. We paid off more debt than any | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
government on record, and wd have up to 1% GDP and paid 38 billion of the | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
debt we had to borrow money to save the banks, to save working-class | :35:36. | :35:43. | |
people's savings. We are only up to not .4% now and then efforts have | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
soared because you have not produced the jobs you would said. Whdn the | :35:49. | :35:56. | |
Honourable lady says you, if she wishes to attack the ministdr she | :35:57. | :35:58. | |
has to say the minister for the Government. They apologise, the | :35:59. | :36:07. | |
minister for Secretary of State who is often not present on subjects | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
like this, but it is an excdpt the ball... The honourable lady has had | :36:11. | :36:22. | |
her five minutes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I apologise for not | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
saying before, I now have to reduce the time limit to four minutes. I | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
will be brief. I just wanted to pick up on a couple of points, fhrst to | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
address the economic aspect of the issue, because I have pressdd the | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
Shadow Minister this afternoon but we have had debates around tax | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
credits and file members opposite has said the your committed to | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
reducing the deficit in this country and the Shadow Minister has said he | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
is committed to reducing welfare spending by ?12 million, ag`in today | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
we have not had answers how that would happen. To give credit to the | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
SNP, the effective opposition, while I disagree with their alternatives | :37:12. | :37:18. | |
at least they have a son, so perhaps the Shadow Minister can acknowledge | :37:19. | :37:20. | |
how he would tackle the welfare saving that needs to be madd and if | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
not through savings in Univdrsal Credit, how he would proposd that. I | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
also agree with the member for Cardiff North and Gloucester because | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
they have produced figures that show that for those moving to Unhversal | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
Credit, with the tapering and transitional arrangements, people | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
will not be worse off in cash terms and they produced those figtres and | :37:47. | :37:53. | |
shone a light on the smoke `nd mirrors from members opposite. With | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
all the changes happening dtring this Parliament, with the | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
introduction of the National Living Wage, it will mean someone working | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
full-time on the current minimum wage would be ?5,000 a year but off, | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
with free childcare introduced for three and 5 euros, families would | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
also benefit from five thosd in pounds a year, the rays in tax | :38:20. | :38:27. | |
thresholds we have heard about, a proposed 12 point ?5,000 by the end | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
of this Parliament would benefit low wage families, and that is not to | :38:31. | :38:37. | |
mention increase in unemploxment, a significant percentage of which is | :38:38. | :38:38. | |
in full-time work. The I have been very disappointed by | :38:39. | :38:49. | |
the patronising laughter from the shadow minister when we suggested | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
single parents could get back into work and life cultures would be | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
helpful and he loved that off as if it was something we could only dream | :38:57. | :39:04. | |
about. -- life cultures. It is from my personal experience of growing up | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
in a working-class family. H went to school in a socialist state where | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
there was little or no hope or aspiration of working-class kids | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
like myself. We got no caredrs advice, my careers advice w`s how to | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
claim my first benefits. Thdre was no sex for advice or advice on how | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
to go to university so I never got there, just benefits advice, because | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
that is the socialist weight with no hope or aspiration. This unhversal | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
credit debate is about more than just pounds and pence and pdople's | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
pockets. It is a fundamental shift on how people work and are paid for | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
doing so. I will be supporthng the government in their move to | :39:54. | :39:55. | |
universal credit and I would encourage members opposite to do the | :39:56. | :40:03. | |
same. Can I make it clear that I welcome the principles behind | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
universal credit and I think any scheme that simplifies the welfare | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
system provides additional support to those who need to use it and | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
incentivises people into work, which ultimately is the best routd out of | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
poverty, has to be encouragdd. However the problem is that because | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
of the Chancellor's failure to reach his deficit reduction target, the | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
original and totally laudable objectives have been subsumdd to the | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
government need to cut the cost of it. Can I say I applaud those | :40:36. | :40:46. | |
members opposite who lobbied hard for the removal of his proposals to | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
cut working tax credit? Thex recognised the false logic of what | :40:53. | :40:59. | |
he was doing. Indeed, when we had the Autumn Statement, he sahd and I | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
quote, I have had represent`tion that the changes to tax credits | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
should be phased in. I hear and understand them, and he went on The | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
important thing to do is not to say is their men but to avoid them | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
altogether. Tax credits are being phased out anyway as we introduce | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
universal credit. The overwhelming impression at that point is that | :41:24. | :41:30. | |
this policy had been abandoned. What he didn't mention, is that ht was | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
effectively being rebranded and recycled through the universal | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
credit system. I cannot unddrstand why those people who lobbied the | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
Chancellor beforehand on working tax credits appear to be accepthng these | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
same proposals being recycldd through universal credit. The | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
Chancellor was the one involved in smoke and mirrors, and actu`lly he | :41:59. | :42:05. | |
compound that with another threat. He suddenly found for the ftnding of | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
it, ?27 billion that seems to be in the accounts in autumn that had not | :42:13. | :42:20. | |
been in the accounts in Julx. It does credit to that well-known | :42:21. | :42:27. | |
former comedian, Tommy Coopdr, illusionist and comedian, you found | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
it just like that! All I can hope is that for the state of the n`tion's | :42:34. | :42:41. | |
finances, this 27 billion is not as illusory as the benefits whhch the | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
Chancellor claimed would accrue to those who moved on to universal | :42:46. | :42:52. | |
credit. I would like to devdlop this further, because not only do I | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
object to the way in which ht was introduced into the House, the | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
proposals, but the underlying philosophy of it is a compldte | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
contradiction to everything that the government has said about m`king | :43:05. | :43:11. | |
work pay and taking people off benefits, incentivising people into | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
work. This is a theme I think has been well developed by a nulber of | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
other contributors to this debate, so I will not take it any ftrther. | :43:22. | :43:30. | |
But can I just say, Madam Ddputy Speaker, that if you put thhs in the | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
context of the cuts to inheritance tax, what we have now is a tniversal | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
credit system that effectivdly penalises those who are working hard | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
to produce the goods and services and pay the taxes that will reduce | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
the deficit and gives benefht to those who inherit capital that will | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
actually be better off. It hs a policy that is incoherent, | :43:56. | :43:58. | |
contradictory and sends the wrong message and ultimately will be | :43:59. | :44:07. | |
self-defeating. Thank you. Ht must surely be a fact that all shdes of | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
this house want to see more people in good jobs, and this must be a | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
central focus of any governlent There is a pragmatic economhc | :44:18. | :44:19. | |
argument for this but also the social and moral argument. Labour's | :44:20. | :44:27. | |
policies in this area were no doubt well-intentioned but proved to be | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
expensive, bureaucratic and in some cases, too many cases, | :44:32. | :44:35. | |
counter-productive. The growth in jobs vacancies in the UK economy | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
today is a reflection of thd success of this government's policids and | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
provides opportunities to pdople currently out of work and pdople who | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
want a better job. 2 million more people are now in work meanhng we | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
are creating 1000 jobs in. Dstimates vary but they are now betwedn | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
750,001.2 million more vacancies in the economy at any one time than | :45:01. | :45:08. | |
before the recession. On a parochial note, I welcome the latest figures | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
showing that the number of people in my local constituency of br`in to be | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
claiming job-seekers has fallen by 110 this year, 2015 alone, `nd it is | :45:19. | :45:27. | |
a staggering 59% drop since the economic and welfare reforms that | :45:28. | :45:34. | |
the government introduced in 20 0. However, looking foreword, we have | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
to ask why we have so many vacancies and yet so many people | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
underemployed. Surely, the past welfare system must be a | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
contributory factor. We can recognise the impact of perverse | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
incentives without vilifying the unemployed or the underemployed and | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
they would make the point that at no point in this debate have hdard the | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
words scroungers uttered from this side of the House, but unfortunately | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
many times from the other, `nd I think that is unfortunate. We have | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
all had people in our surgeries say something along the lines of I am | :46:14. | :46:20. | |
working my 16 hours. How on earth have we come to this? If taking more | :46:21. | :46:29. | |
work brings extra paperwork, extra uncertainty, but little extra money, | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
is it any wonder that so many people decide not to do it? This is | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
fundamentally wrong and must be rectified if we are going to deal | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
with long-term underemploymdnt seriously. Universal credit extends | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
financial incentives to people working less than 16 hours ` week | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
and removes the limit on thd number of hours some people can work, and | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
the taper helps people clearly understand the advantages of working | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
and planning for the long-tdrm. As a conservative I want to get people | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
real choices in work and a life trapped in welfare is a lifd without | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
choices, and it is our duty to change this. Give people a well | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
deserved chance to make the very best for themselves and thehr | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
families. The financial impdrative is important but just as important | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
is universal credit as a me`ns of getting more people into work and | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
more people onto good work. I have listened to the members opposite and | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
the arguments are all based on people not changing their | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
circumstances and this fund`mentally misses the point of univers`l | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
credit. I want people to ch`nge their circumstances. If people are | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
trapped in low paid and part-time jobs I want them to change their | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
circumstances. If their employers would invest in their trainhng | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
because they are only on 16 hours a week, I want them to change their | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
circumstances. If they are stuck on minimum wage I want to see them able | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
and confident to get better jobs and therefore change their | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
circumstances. Universal crddit will be a game changer and I will commit | :48:06. | :48:14. | |
and commend it to the House. Happy New Year. The apparent tax credits | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
U-turn performed by the Chancellor appeared that the time to bd a | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
victory for common sense and for the vigorous campaign fought by my | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
colleagues on these benches and in Hollywood and indeed by Labour and | :48:28. | :48:35. | |
the Greens. As the dust has settled on the much hyped Utah and ht would | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
appear role the government has done is delay this and transfigured into | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
universal credit, specifically the work allowance. The House of Commons | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
library debriefing on this list you state that the work allowance | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
reductions will ultimately have similar impact to the changds in tax | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
credits now going ahead. Low income working households in places across | :48:58. | :49:08. | |
this country will still be `sked to pay the price for economic failure | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
is not of their making. The cuts have just been deferred and | :49:15. | :49:17. | |
deflected and dished out by other means. So yet again we must ask how | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
these cuts can possibly chine with the government claim that they want | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
to make work pay, or with the aim of universal credit that work pays and | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
more work pays for everyone. Work will not pay for those on universal | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
credit due to see the incomds reduced by up to ?3000 a ye`r. 3000 | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
less for a single parent or a family before closing costs are considered | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
that we are one or both adults are disabled. These people are working | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
and working hard. They are paying their taxes and are now to be hard | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
once again. The minister has said in his remarks that he wants a change | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
to the cycle of taking monex from lower-income workers and giving it | :50:02. | :50:03. | |
back to Social Security. He is achieving that changed but now the | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
Treasury will just take and not give back. The government may well | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
suggest this can be made up by working extra hours and indded the | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
Work and Pensions Secretary has already made this suggestion but for | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
those with a disability which makes it possible to work but impossible | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
to work full-time, or with someone with caring responsibilities who can | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
only work full-time or thosd whose employer cannot afford to ghve them | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
extra hours, this cut will be an unfair punishment for this | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
government's flawed and reckless austerity at any cost of session. | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
This despicable suggestion that all those about to have their incomes | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
cut can just pick up some overtime here and they are just goes to show | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
how desperately out of touch to the ministers are, and on the evidence | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
of this debate, a great manx government backbenchers really are. | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
They have not got a clue how people on low incomes get by and nor how | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
devastating an impact these cuts will have. If the government is | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
serious about reducing welf`re spending, it would be creathng more | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
job opportunities and truly dealing with barriers to employment | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
particularly for the disabldd and mentally unwell but instead we see | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
savage cuts to Social Securhty support directed at those bhnding it | :51:20. | :51:28. | |
most difficult to get into work These groups help those in need of | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
extra support either get back into work or stay and work for ddaling | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
reasons and are being slashdd to reverence by this government, so I | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
hope the government will hedd the call from my right honourable | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
friend, the member for Banff and Buchan, and publish an impact | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
assessment. We must remember that these cuts are being made ott of | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
choice, not necessity. The Tory government should be focusing its | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
priorities for spending cuts elsewhere but not on low income | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
families, so in conclusion, I hope we can see a similar reargu`rd | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
action from the Tory backbenchers who spoke out against the t`x credit | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
cuts and to oppose these cuts to universal credit work allow`nce The | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
House of Commons library has said it will have... Chris Stephens. Madam | :52:18. | :52:29. | |
Deputy Speaker, can I thank the Labour front bench, it is OK, I will | :52:30. | :52:39. | |
send that up to Hansard! Thd honourable gentleman is using | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
perfectly good language and most of us understand perfectly. Can I thank | :52:43. | :52:50. | |
the Labour Party and the melber for bringing this motion to the House, | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
and I want to start is he dhd, by discussing the parliamentarx | :52:57. | :52:58. | |
procedures and concerns I h`d about how this change was made. Mx view | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
was that the statutory instrument committee should be used to address | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
technical changes to legisl`tion and technical amendments. This was not a | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
technical amendment. This w`s a policy change and it was a | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
procedural vehicle to sneak in the most damaging legislation and | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
avoiding public scrutiny. What we were subjected to from government | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
members was the usual sunshhne and cheerful rhetoric. So much so, that | :53:29. | :53:36. | |
if you were playing Tory buzz phrase Bingle, you would have won `fter a | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
couple of minutes. The realhty of this change is that a singld parent | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
currently earning minimum w`ge can work up to 22 hours but with this | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
change the cut to working allowance would lose that support aftdr 1 | :53:49. | :53:56. | |
hours. There were many questions I asked at the Statutory Instrument | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
Committee which I am still `waiting an answer to, and I hope thd | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
Government front bench will answer these. What assessment has been made | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
on the effect of the changes on working families and their `bility | :54:09. | :54:16. | |
to take part-time work? Doesn't this incentivise work and lead to workers | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
reducing their hours, because it seems to be human nature if there is | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
a chance of somebody losing enough it a month and they can onlx say | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
that bike cutting working otrs, they will do that. Will there be any | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
mitigation on the effects of benefits? How will carers bd | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
affected, and talking about young workers, what about those aged under | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
25 who will not get access to the National Living Wage? What hmpact | :54:48. | :54:55. | |
assessment has been done on staff in the Department for Work and Pensions | :54:56. | :54:58. | |
who we know are at the lowest paid civil servants in the country, so | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
much so that when staff frol Her Majesty's Revenue and Custols were | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
merged into DWP, staff workhng in HMRC earned ?2000 more than those | :55:12. | :55:18. | |
who work in DWP. Staff who `re subjected to a 1% pay cut who were | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
increasing and had to pay increased National Insurance contributions, | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
40% of DWP staff currently on tax credits. We have heard much today | :55:31. | :55:37. | |
about aspiration. What does a cup to working allowance mean, what message | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
does it send to those who aspire? I believe the reality is that people | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
are aware that ladder of social mobility is being systematically | :55:51. | :55:53. | |
pulled up ahead of them and no matter how hard they work or home at | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
the aspire to wave at life for their children and themselves, thdy will | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
be punished for not being bored into the right sort of family. -, born. | :56:04. | :56:14. | |
That is the reality of this cut Thank you, Madam Deputy Spe`ker It | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
is a pleasure to follow the member for Glasgow South West in actually | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
debating the motion before ts about the Government's cut to the | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
Universal Credit work allow`nce It has been like a silent disco | :56:32. | :56:37. | |
experience where the other side seem to be tuned to a debate abott their | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
patients of Universal Credit whereas this side of the House seems to be | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
tuned into the right debate about the cut to the work allowance. We | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
have had is spurious arguments, the honourable member for Braintree said | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
he wants to see his habitual and is able to improve their choicds but | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
hasn't told us how the cut to the work loans will improve anybody s | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
choices. It will not improvd choices for a table in my judgment see when | :57:08. | :57:16. | |
this change reaches them. Wd have also heard nonsense arguments like | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
the memorable for Gloucester saying the IFS have told us nobody will | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
lose out. That is not what the IFS have said in relation to spdcific | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
changes to Universal Credit and not just the work allowance. Thd IFS | :57:33. | :57:41. | |
taking into account all the changes estimates a reduction of 3.7 | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
billion, and estimate there will be an aggregate loss of 1.5 billion to | :57:47. | :57:53. | |
working families, and as thd member for Banff and Buchan pointed out, | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
there are some who are meant to be built as losers and some as winners, | :57:59. | :58:06. | |
but 2.6 million according to the IFS will lose an average of 1600 pounds | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
a year and 1.9 million are scheduled to gain an average of 1400 homes a | :58:12. | :58:20. | |
year, but we got no that those who are projected as winners will stay | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
as winners because we have `lready seen the comment bend and change all | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
its promises around Univers`l Credit, work would play and more | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
work would pay for everyone, we have seen that promise eroded by the | :58:36. | :58:42. | |
Government this year. We saw them produce a budget in the sprhng where | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
they announced one figure for the welfare cap and then came b`ck and | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
reduced the welfare cap by 46.5 billion in the next four ye`rs, so | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
that shows us we cannot depdnd on any of these projections for | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
assurances, and when the Ch`ncellor announced his U-turn in rel`tion to | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
tax credits, it was clear hhs intent was still there in relation to | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
Universal Credit, both the near term change and the longer term changes, | :59:14. | :59:19. | |
those would be there, but hd also said the savings he was givhng up in | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
his U-turn, he would achievd by other means, so we'll got the bike | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
other changes in terms of Universal Credit, including the work | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
allowance? Will those currently cold as potential winners have their | :59:35. | :59:42. | |
terms and conditions change in years to come? There is no argument given | :59:43. | :59:50. | |
by honourable members opposhte in terms of the Universal Credht work | :59:51. | :59:53. | |
allowance that they could not equally give in response to any | :59:54. | :59:59. | |
future cut affecting other claimants, and apart from the | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
question of the roll-out, the fact is individuals know they cannot rely | :00:06. | :00:10. | |
on any of the promises given about what Universal Credit will lean to | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
them. It is all very well for Tory MPs to say what it means to them but | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
it will be a different storx on the kitchen tables of hard-workhng | :00:22. | :00:28. | |
families. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, I promise to try to be | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
brief. In his Autumn Statemdnt, the Chancellor trumpeted that hd was | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
reversing proposed cuts to tax credits, saying he abandoned plans | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
to impose the cat from April this year. It now appears he is doing a | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
U-turn on his U-turn becausd since the Autumn Statement it transpired | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
he has lined up similar cuts to the same working families, this time | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
with cuts to Universal Credht. It seems the Secretary of Statd is | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
ushering in a new postcode lottery by pushing ahead with cuts to | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
Universal Credit, which will see some families ?3000 a year worse off | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
than others in the same circumstances. We heard the example | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
of a single mother working full time who will have a net income lower | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
next year than somebody in the same circumstance on tax credits. A | :01:26. | :01:33. | |
single parent on to -- of two will see their income fall by eight | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
thousand pounds next. Analysis shows that cuts to the work allow`nce will | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
also mean an annual work allowance cut for disabled people in work and | :01:47. | :01:53. | |
this is a concern. My consthtuency will be hit hard by these proposals, | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
with 2000 families affect it in 2017, and more each successhve year. | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
Across our country we see the need for food banks increase and I raise | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
this because in many cases would bang support is provided more to | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
people in work that out of work and perhaps if the minister and | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
Secretary of State would visit food banks and talk to volunteers they | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
would get a better appreciation of the hardship endured. These | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
proposals to cut tax credits but make things worse for working | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
families, people the Governlent say they are committed to helping. I say | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
to the members opposite, thdse measures will cause great h`rdship | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
to vulnerable families across our country. This Government has | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
choices. We have seen announcements to allocate billions to help the | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
most well-off by cutting inheritance tax, to support big businesses by | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
cutting corporation tax... His repeated assertion in relatdd to the | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
inheritance tax cut, even bx 20 1 this will still only cost ldss than | :03:11. | :03:18. | |
?1 billion. It is not comparable to the savings achieved through these | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
welfare reforms. You cannot magic up savings through not preceding with | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
the inheritance tax cut alone. That is one example, there are others. It | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
is an example of the wrong choices being made by this Government. They | :03:37. | :03:45. | |
have also taken to give support to read businesses and have chosen to | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
continue cuts in the top rate of income tax from 50 two 45%, allowing | :03:51. | :03:58. | |
someone earning ?2 million ` year to continue to pay 250,000 pounds a | :03:59. | :04:06. | |
year less in income tax. Thdse are clearly wrong choices made on the | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
back of ordinary working falilies, and it is with this acronym but the | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
decision to penalise working families is wrong in so manx ways. | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
These changes will cause undue stress to millions of familhes and I | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
urge members opposite to support the Labour Party's motion today are not | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
turn their backs on working families. I welcomed and pr`ised the | :04:33. | :04:40. | |
Chancellor for the U-turn on tax credits. It was the right thing to | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
do, the courageous thing to do, and I've paid tribute to colleagues from | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
all sides of the House who worked to achieve that and in the othdr place, | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
and colleagues on the other benches who had the courage to tell their | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
front bench they were wrong and this would head working families, so | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
imagine my dismay when thosd same people, many of them who thought | :05:06. | :05:13. | |
they had escaped a 1400 cut in their low income from next April, they now | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
find that through a different mechanism they will suffer hn | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
exactly the same way. This decision was merely a delay, a temporary | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
reprieve, and those people will feel. They will feel betraydd. Let | :05:31. | :05:41. | |
me serve notice on the Government today that the Liberal Democrats | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
will table an amendment in the House of Lords and will seek coopdration | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
from other parties to bring this down, to show the Government they | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
cannot win the tax credit changed by the act thought, which is | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
disgracefully what this is `bout. The reality of the figures `re | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
worrying. The reality of thd people affected is disgraceful. Lone | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
parents will be affected, the net effect on their income will be a | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
reduction of ?2600 according to Liverpool economics. Disabldd people | :06:17. | :06:24. | |
will see a reduction of ?2000. Couples with children will see a net | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
effect of a reduction of ?1000. 2.6 million working families will lose | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
out if this cup to Universal Credit goes through. A couple on ?20,0 0 a | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
year with two children, thex were looking forward to being ?160 better | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
off due to changes in personal allowance next April after that | :06:49. | :06:54. | |
scrapping of the tax credit and would have welcomed that, btt now | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
that same couple will be facing a cut in just if you weeks of ?10 0. | :07:00. | :07:08. | |
This Social Mobility and Chhld Poverty Commission, the Govdrnment's | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
own advisory body, said the incentives to progress in work could | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
be worse than they were and they say the immediate priority should be | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
reversing planned cuts to work allowances before they are `nd | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
wanted and despite the reversal on income tax credits, these proposals | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
merely delayed the reversal for those, so why not one word from | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
those who had the courage to oppose tax credit cuts went exactlx the | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
same cuts in a different guxs are here today. Asking people to work | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
200 more hours a year simplx shows a front edge and a Conservative | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
government that are out of touch. The questions I have for thd | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
Chancellor in the short terl and the Secretary of State for Work and | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
Pensions, why has there not in a proper impact assessment of this | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
change? What have they got to hide and will they know do one, `nd will | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
they also respond to the Chhld Poverty Commission's view, which | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
they have not done so? The Liberal Democrats will seek to overturn this | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
in the House of Lords. They are right to do so and let us hope that | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
once again we see a U-turn from this Government because this is not | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
acceptable and heads the people they purport to be seeking to help. | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
Thank you, can I congratulate everybody and thank them for their | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
contributions to the today's debate. Too many to mention in detahl but if | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
I could just mention the right Honourable member for East Ham, who | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
in his typical way has forensically analysed the implications of the | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
cuts to work allowance for tniversal credit, and also the implic`tions in | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
this house for undermining the objective of universal credht, which | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
is to incentivise work. The government may have been forced to | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
roll back on their proposal around cuts to tax credits, but as has been | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
emphasised, this is not the end of the attack on hard-working people on | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
low paid. In his Autumn Statement last November, the Chancellor failed | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
to exclude people currently on universal credit from any ctts in | :09:39. | :09:46. | |
work allowances. As has been said, as everybody will eventuallx move on | :09:47. | :09:48. | |
to universal credit the long-term effect will be zero. Accordhng to | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
the IFS, by 2020, two .6 million families will be ?1600 a ye`r worse | :09:56. | :10:03. | |
off. Starting in April next year there will be 9.6 billion worth of | :10:04. | :10:10. | |
reduction in support with ?000 million coming from 2016-17. Those | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
people including my constittents will be hit first. They are | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
currently 155,000 people on UC and that is increasing every wedk and | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
expected to be half a million by April. The House of Commons library | :10:26. | :10:33. | |
show these cuts mean a single parent of two will lose ?2400 next year. | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
Liverpool economics have estimated that disabled people will h`ve their | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
support reduced by ?2000 a xear A couple with two children earning | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
?20,000 a year and will be ?6,0 0 a year worse off. The North Wdst will | :10:50. | :10:59. | |
be hit first saw from powerhouse to workouts. The government first of | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
all denied anyone on UC would be worse off with the Secretarx of | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
State saying on the BBC, nobody will lose any money on arrival on | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
universal credit from tax credits because they are cash protected | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
which means transitional protection. That couldn't be further from the | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
truth, as the government finally conceded during the Christm`s | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
recess. The flexible support find that the Secretary of State claimed | :11:27. | :11:28. | |
would provide additional protection is used for other purposes. Last | :11:29. | :11:35. | |
year it was only ?69 million short of the ?100 million short -, cuts. | :11:36. | :11:45. | |
So will the Secretary of St`te now apologise because this is the first | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
time I believe he has had an opportunity to come to the House and | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
apologise for the inaccuraches that he made and that were misle`ding to | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
the public in this way. I t`ke that as a no. The blunders and | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
callousness does not stop there the government suggested the wax to | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
avoid these cuts was to work an extra 200 hours a year, thrde or | :12:09. | :12:16. | |
four hours a week. As the mdmber for Banff and Buchan Canon... Sorry | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
Banff and Buchan, said, is that really what the department hs going | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
to do, because if it is not they need to be getting their own house | :12:28. | :12:35. | |
in order. The minister is trying to say this is about dynamism `nd | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
strengthening work incentivds but cutting universal credit work | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
allowances will weaken and not strengthen incentives, a far cry | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
from the supposedly pension. As a result of these cuts, a single | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
parent of only earning the new minimum wage will only incrdase | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
their income by ?40 for working an additional 12 hours. That compares | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
with an increase of ?92 for the additional 12 hours before the cuts | :13:03. | :13:04. | |
to the work allowances were introduced. The government `re once | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
more making the poorest including the working poor bear the brunt of | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
further cuts and again as a result of the IFS analysis of the @utumn | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
Statement shows. After six xears late have done nothing to ctrb | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
boardroom pay, the average worker is paid ?27,000, an increase of less | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
than 2% on last year, compared with pay for top executives of an average | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
of ?5 million, and this trend is getting worse and not better. In the | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
first five days of January, they had already amply qualified and -- | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
equivalent of the average worker's salary. Unsurprisingly this | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
government has failed yet again to publish an impact assessment of the | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
effect of these cuts. The Social Security advisory committee said | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
these impacts need to be an`lysed carefully and the policy should be | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
derived from strong evidencd. The committee was concerned that there | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
may be impacts on individuals and expressed disappointment with the | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
lack of statistical analysis to support the view that the abolition | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
of the work allowance will not deter people from seeking work. In the | :14:16. | :14:23. | |
House of Lords, the secondary legislation is written -- scrutiny | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
committee said its members were disappointed that no impact | :14:29. | :14:30. | |
assessment similar statement has been provided is showing how many | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
people are likely to be affdcted by these changes, and to what degree. | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
In addition there has been no cumulative assessment of thd | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
department's impact on poverty as regards to affecting disabldd people | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
or children, something I have repeatedly encouraged ministers to | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
publish. Again the Social Sdcurity advisory committee stated in the | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
report that they believe more can and should be done to identhfy and | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
evaluate the interaction between elements in the welfare reform | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
agenda, particularly as thex affect vulnerable groups. Others h`ve done | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
it and we know in terms of the cumulative assessment on thd 20 2 | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
welfare reform act that ?23.8 billion will have been taken from | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
3.7 million disabled people. That is not even taking into account the | :15:23. | :15:33. | |
welfare reform and work act. The majority of which are found in | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
children, will amount to ?9.7 billion. A recent article | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
highlighted the disproportionate effect the cuts are having on | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
children and on people with disabilities, and another | :15:51. | :15:52. | |
highlighted the estate -- the impact on child health of the government | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
welfare cuts. This is at a time when we in this affluent country, the | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
sixth wealthiest in the world, have under five mortality rates the | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
highest in northern Europe. These policies will that worse. Wd are | :16:08. | :16:16. | |
calling for a field reversal of the proposed cuts. As we have hdard all | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
the evidence shows there is no reason why it is right to protect | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
people on lower incomes frol cuts to tax credits and not extend the same | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
protection to working familhes on universal credit, especiallx so as | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
we know the Secretary of St`te has said that he expects no new | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
claimants to be eligible for tax credits from 2018 as the well have | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
been replaced by universal credit is. The cuts to the univers`l credit | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
work allowance are just as tnjust and that is why on this sidd of the | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
House we are calling for thd field reversal and asking Conserv`tive | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
members who were brave enough to make a stand against the tax credit | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
cuts to have the courage and do the same today. Thank you. May H thank | :16:58. | :17:10. | |
all the speakers who have t`ken part in today's debate. I have to say and | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
starting that it is rather regrettable that when you h`ve | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
Labour opposition day, you find there are more SNP members of | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
parliament here for most of the debate, and for an opposition day, | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
it is a poor showing they h`ve demonstrated. Let me make one thing | :17:28. | :17:34. | |
clear, universal credit is transforming people's lives. After | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
years of Labour's dependencx culture this government is continuing to | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
reform the welfare system and the labour market. It is worth reminding | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
the House of the broken welfare system and labour market th`t was | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
left to us, a legacy honour`ble members have recognised durhng | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
today's debate. Nearly one hn five households had no one working. The | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
number of households where no one had ever worked had nearly doubled. | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
1.4 million people had been on benefits for most of the prdvious | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
decade, and close to half of all households in the social rented | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
sector had no one in work. H will not give way, I have limited time | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
and am keen to address as m`ny of the points that have been m`de. We | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
have turned that around. Our reforms, the centrepiece of which is | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
universal credit, are working and getting people back into work. I | :18:31. | :18:39. | |
will make one exception. Thd government isn't now going `head | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
with the tax credit cuts so why is it right to go ahead with precisely | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
the same cuts for that minority of people who have the misforttne to be | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
claiming not tax credits but universal credit? It is important | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
that the right Honourable gdntleman and others take into account that | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
they need to consider the broader perspective. Raising person`l | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
allowances, the introduction of the living wage, the doubling of the | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
childcare to 30 hours, tax free childcare from 2017, and don't | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
forget that every time you fill up your tank with petrol, therd is a | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
saving of ?10 because of thd freezing of the fuel duty, so it is | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
important to consider everything any broader perspective, not thd narrow | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
perspective we have seen from so many of the people opposite. They | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
have been a number of peopld and I am afraid time simply doesn't allow | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
me to address them all, but I will simply say that the honourable | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
gentleman for East Ham, madd a very passionate contribution and I have | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
to say I have huge respect for him and I am personally sorry hd is no | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
longer on the front bench of his party. May I also paid tribtte to my | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
honourable friend who made ` very learned that contribution, clearly | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
setting out the reasons as to why the Labour proposals are silply not | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
sustainable. A very powerful contribution from my honour`ble | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
friend, the member for Lewis, who gave her experiences as she grew up. | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
I thought that had the whold house in agreement with our. Madal Deputy | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
Speaker, this is an important subject and we need to recognise | :20:18. | :20:19. | |
that the Institute for Fisc`l Studies has pointed out that no one | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
on existing benefits or tax credits whose circumstances remain the same | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
will lose out on cash terms as a direct result of being moved onto | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
universal credit. These clahmants will get transitional protection to | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
allow cash loss at the point of change. It is important to note that | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
the only people who will be directly affected by the change to work | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
allowances in April will be those already in work and the majority of | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
these will be single claimants without dependents. The honourable | :20:51. | :20:58. | |
gentleman, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary, Cox away. We just checked | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
the Hansard records. He was wrong and we were right, this sidd of the | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
House with -- awaits a wet role of his comments. We have checkdd | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
Hansard and he should do likewise. For those people affected, we have | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
been careful to put measures in place to ensure they are fully | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
supported. As well as the additional coaching support these clailants | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
will receive, we have incre`sed the amounts available through the | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
flexible support funds to hdlp people progress in work and increase | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
earnings. Madam Deputy Speaker, universal credit is a major reform | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
of welfare designed to make sure that work always pays. By rdmoving | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
the requirement to work 16 hours per week that exists in the tax credit | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
system, people will see a fhnancial benefit from the extra hour that | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
they worked. The universal credit paper means that financial support | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
is with product at a consistent and predictable rate. It helps claimants | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
to clearly understand the advantages of work. The Institute for Fiscal | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
Studies has said anyone being moved onto universal credit from tax | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
credits will be protected. They will not be cached losers. Members | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
opposite need to take that on board, and that is from the Instittte for | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
Fiscal Studies. Madam Deputx Speaker, it is also worth noting... | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
I will not give way. It is worth saying also universal credit is | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
working. But every 100 jobsdeker's allowance claimants to find work, | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
113 universal credit claimants also find jobs. It is important to look | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
at the bigger picture. This government is moving Britain to | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
higher wage, lower tax, lowdr welfare of society. Univers`l credit | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
is fundamentally different to the legacy systems it and it has to be | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
recognised leader nor meaningful of comparing an unreformed tax credits | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
system with universal credit. As my honourable friend the Minister for | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
disabled highlighted at the start of the debate, Labour spending on | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
benefits went up by ?22 billion but the number of working peopld in | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
poverty actually logos. The system we inherited from Labour was one | :23:14. | :23:24. | |
where millions of people, bding on welfare was a more attractive option | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
than working or doing more work than they were already doing. | :23:28. | :23:41. | |
Labour's shambolic welfare policies led to a colossal welfare btdget | :23:42. | :23:49. | |
that was simply out of control. And, Madam Deputy Speaker, they haven't | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
changed. The Labour Party m`nifesto said, and I quote, on page 47, and | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
this was the manifesto of the last election, to guarantee a decent | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
Social Security system for the next generation we need to keep costs | :24:04. | :24:10. | |
under control. Yet when the Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary was on | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
the daily politics programmd in December, he said, and I quote, "We | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
are campaigning for a full reversal of Universal Credit, we will put | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
that money back in if we were in power, I am crystal clear about | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
that". When the presenter challenged him, and she had to challenge him | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
three times, she said, "Where would you get the money? The Bill would go | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
up under your proposal". Thd reply was "Had I been Chancellor H would | :24:43. | :24:50. | |
have taken the extra 27 billion tax receipts". So there you havd it the | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
party that wants to continud taxing, that is why they are the party of | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
welfare, they are the welfare party and not the Labour Party. M`dam | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
Deputy Speaker, welfare is luch more than simply giving money to people | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
and writing blank cheques. Ht is about removing the barriers that | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
prevent people finding work and progressing in work. It is `bout | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
giving people the support they need to stand on their own two fded and | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
live independently from the state. It is about creating the right | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
incentives people so they c`n make the right choices for themsdlves and | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
their families. That is what Universal Credit does, and ht is | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
working. It is incentivising work, renewing personal responsibhlity and | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
rewarding positive choices. And under this Government, this one | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
nation Government, we will continue to deliver for all our citizens The | :25:51. | :26:03. | |
questions is -- is on the order paper, say I... Say no. Cle`r the | :26:04. | :26:04. | |
lobby. The order paper, say aye, s`y no. | :26:05. | :27:09. | |
Tellers for the aye... Telldrs for the no s. | :27:10. | :34:12. | |
. . Ayes The right to a 73, noes the two the left 278. | :34:13. | :39:19. | |
Ayes 273 The, noes 308 the. We now come to the motion on floodhng. | :39:20. | :39:43. | |
--The noes, 308. I will try to limit the number of interventions. I think | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
it is important we hear frol people whose own constituents have been | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
affected by flooding over this Christmas period. This is the second | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
opposition day in less than a month when we have had to call a debate on | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
flooding. We are grateful for the response Environment Secret`ry | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
yesterday with a statement but there were too many unanswered qudstions | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
for communities devastated by the floods and I hope today we will hear | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
more answers. I want to put on record as banks for the outstanding | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
work of the emergency services and Armed Forces and many volunteers who | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
responded to the floods will stop --. . It is quite difficult to hear | :40:22. | :40:29. | |
the Minister and a lot of otr constituents have been affected by | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
it. Thank you very much. I appreciate that the Secretary of | :40:35. | :40:43. | |
State chaired Cobra in order to get a swift response of the Chrhstmas | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
period but we cannot keep rdlying on emergency responses. That is a | :40:49. | :40:51. | |
worrying air of complacency from this government and ministers have | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
prioritised by prevention ddspite the national security risk | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
assessment fighting for risk of Tier one priority. We would not hgnore | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
expert warnings on terrorisl or cyber attacks so why do thex ignore | :41:05. | :41:12. | |
warnings on flooding? Flood adaptation was given a double red | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
warning and the comment was urged to protect an increasing number of | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
homes at risk from flooding, sound advice which this government | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
inextricably rejected. Able to have been forced their homes need to know | :41:25. | :41:31. | |
why. My area floods repeatedly and people are frankly sick of ht. It | :41:32. | :41:34. | |
has been happening for a very long time. Is it not the case th`t all | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
governments have disregarded advice and after the lights in 2000 which | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
also devastated my constitudnts the previous government was warned it | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
needed to spend ?709 per ye`r to keep up but never dead. The record | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
is of increased blood spent after the event followed by reductions | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
afterwards and all governments have to be seen as guilty of that and we | :41:56. | :42:05. | |
have to break that cycle. The review initiated in 2007 but the l`st | :42:06. | :42:07. | |
Labour government recommenddd increasing spending and that is what | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
the ligament was doing. It was only when the Coalition Government got in | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
in 2010 that they reversed that spending. I was talking abott the | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
warnings that the government had ignored including the warning from | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
the climate Jim it to victory. - climate change committee. Pdople | :42:28. | :42:34. | |
want to know by then by mid-secretary did not act on what | :42:35. | :42:41. | |
was recommended by Professor Colin Mellors who said that ever tighter | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
budgets would mean they would have to consider sites when thesd things | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
might be formally discontinted. Ministers were told that thdir | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
neglect of flood defences would double the number of households at | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
significant risk of flooding in 20 years with too many assets | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
maintained only to minimum level. The government was warned rdpeatedly | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
about the damage caused by spending cuts and Environment Agency | :43:06. | :43:07. | |
redundancies. It is one that too many households and businesses could | :43:08. | :43:13. | |
not afford household insurance and that neglect of the natural | :43:14. | :43:15. | |
environment was exacerbating the FUD rest and that heavy rain threats | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
would only become more freqtent -- flood risk. If only this government | :43:22. | :43:28. | |
put as much effort into defdnding the homes of people and bushnesses | :43:29. | :43:36. | |
as it does its own record. The Secretary of State is talking about | :43:37. | :43:44. | |
capital expenditure only. It did increase after the Somerset floods | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
by 0.8% in real terms. In today pass my prices that is ?50 million over | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
five years. They all advisers of the government have told them that flood | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
spending would have to incrdase by ?20 million plus inflation dach | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
year. Do they really think this is something to be proud of? -, the | :44:07. | :44:14. | |
government's own advisers. . The National Audit Office has s`id were | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
not for the panic reaction to the Somerset floods total funding would | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
have followed by 10% in real terms during the last Parliament. In 012 | :44:21. | :44:28. | |
alone capital funding fell hn real terms by 180 million. The following | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
year the Environment Agency published a list of three and a | :44:33. | :44:34. | |
dataset and flood projects that would be delayed and cancelled due | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
to lack of funding and this included schemes in Leeds and Lancashire and | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
Cumbria. It does not matter who is in comment, the pressure for flood | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
defence goes away when therd has not been flooding for a while goes away | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
and we're competing with schools and hospitals. Is it not time for | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
radical change so that instdad of fighting within the Treasurx to the | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
funding we put it on water bills and do some other form of levies such as | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
was recently suggested in a paper produced this week? I agree that | :45:13. | :45:22. | |
upstream management makes are really important contribution and think | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
perhaps the constituents of the honourable gentleman with the | :45:26. | :45:27. | |
consent of the thought that would be paying more on what bills to meet | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
the situation. Our emotion today is asking the government whethdr they | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
would be prepared to meet the spending of ?800 million per year | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
the Environment Agency is recommended. Dash-macro what bills. | :45:40. | :45:48. | |
-- water bills. Is this somdthing we are people who are already having to | :45:49. | :45:51. | |
struggle to pay high insurance premiums and cover losses not | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
covered by insurance are having excesses of up to ?10,000 that they | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
are having to beat themselvds to then be hit by rising water bills on | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
top of that, I think they would really struggle with that concept. | :46:04. | :46:16. | |
Many people have been angerdd by the claims of the Prime Minister. A | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
six-year programme of investment is welcome. We need to know it will | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
address the lasting legacy of the Coalition cuts and that this money | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
will be available given the reliance on external contributions. With the | :46:30. | :46:31. | |
slow progress made in infrastructure projects we need to know whdn | :46:32. | :46:33. | |
schemes will largely be built and communities cannot wait six years | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
for what even start and we know how slow the progress has been some of | :46:37. | :46:39. | |
these schemes that are alre`dy supposedly in the pipeline. We need | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
Environment Secretary to re`lise any benefit from schemes be dimhnished | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
if the government allows to existing schemes to deteriorate. It was | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
estimated that almost three quarters of flood defence asset systdms would | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
not be maintained sufficiently. Maintenance spending fell bx 6% in | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
real terms in the Coalition. I am very grateful to my honourable | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
friend and as well as the point she makes we also need an Environment | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
Secretary that understands particularly in urban areas the | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
value of flood planes such `s those around Denton and a reddish Vale. | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
They were completely submerged during the Christmas period did | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
precisely what they were supposed to do, to take the excess away from | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
further up the valley where the flooding could have been much worse. | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
Those aliens are set to be reviewed as part of the Greater Manchester | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
green belt review and are vdry much under risk had been taken off the | :47:36. | :47:44. | |
green for development. -- of being. That is very much an issue of flood | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
planes with House building. People are looking after the indivhdual | :47:52. | :47:59. | |
patch only to exacerbate thd problem further downstream and that is why | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
we need a coherent overall `pproach to the areas to make sure that | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
upstream, that the overall picture and the needs of everyone bding | :48:08. | :48:17. | |
protected. What she is saying is absolutely right on this issue. Does | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
she advocate pressing the government for a complete review on thd | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
guidance which is given to local authorities? At the moment local | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
authorities can say it has not been designated a flood plain th`t | :48:31. | :48:37. | |
clearly their thinking is ott of date given the changes we h`ve had | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
in climatic conditions over recent years. The Secretary of State will | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
see it is ultimately a decision for local people but we need to look at | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
the broader picture and for one local authority to say it is OK to | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
build on a flood plain is pdrhaps ignoring the impact that buhlding a | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
flood plain will haven't amdnities in surrounding areas so we need a | :48:59. | :49:05. | |
much more overarching view. I know the honourable ladies from Bristol | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
and we have set up the Somerset rivers authority as she is well | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
aware and this is working wdll. The money we need for the flood | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
defences, we have everything we require. This is a countywide | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
development which we are giving money directly from governmdnt to be | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
able to do the work we need and I want to make sure she understands. I | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
am pretty sure she does. I `m very aware of the work is being done on | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
the Somerset Levels that I think it is a slightly different picture | :49:32. | :49:34. | |
there because of the basin geography of it it is perhaps more isolated | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
than areas in the North of Dngland where one Trinity after another | :49:41. | :49:42. | |
after another that is being consecutively. -- one alia `fter | :49:43. | :49:51. | |
another. -- one community after another. Flood spending in Scotland | :49:52. | :49:58. | |
is going up. Does she not fdel it would been have better to unite the | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
House on this issue and get the Scottish National party to support | :50:03. | :50:10. | |
Labour? The spending to the Scottish environmental agency has bedn cut as | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
I understand it and I think that is important, we have seen dev`stating | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
pictures of flooding in Scotland. We have seen Arsenal together ,- | :50:19. | :50:28. | |
devastating pictures of flooding in Scotland. It is important to | :50:29. | :50:37. | |
recognise how flooding is bding dealt with and the seriousndss with | :50:38. | :50:40. | |
which it is being taken in Scotland and that needs to be addressed and | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
why we have put in motion. ,- bluetit in our motion. -- ptt it in | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
our motion. Defra And the Treasury is still | :50:51. | :51:06. | |
refusing to put any long-term estimate on maintenance. Shd told us | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
this year it is ?171 million and is ignoring Environment Agency's advice | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
that flood protection requires 800 million per year. That would mean an | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
annual maintenance expendittre of ?470 million. We cannot continue | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
with their piecemeal panickdd approach of. The Universal Credit | :51:26. | :51:39. | |
Work Allowance -- of Defra. The best Dorset Cabinet committee was quietly | :51:40. | :51:42. | |
disbanded once floodwaters receded and immediate attention subsided. | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
The promised annual review of national resilience never | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
materialise so I asked Environment Secretary again as a digest of the | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
public have confidence in ydt another review led by the rhght on | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
board member by Westar cert? I notice he's not here this afternoon | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
as he was not here. Perhaps the Secretary of State can tell us if we | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
are -- if he is in Lancashire Yorkshire visiting people affected | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
by the floods of ugly as more pressing matters to attend to. There | :52:14. | :52:21. | |
is no greater sign that the government surely understands how | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
people have been affected are high businesses have been affectdd. | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
Members of the size spoke eloquently yesterday about how people have | :52:31. | :52:33. | |
suffered and how their fears have not gone away. How can the secular | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
state yesterday only given vague assurances considering the Leeds | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
scheme? -- Secretary of State. I will make progress without | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
interventions. I am sure he can intervene on somebody else later, | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
perhaps his own Secretary of State. Why did she not review earlher about | :52:54. | :52:59. | |
why her predecessors made the wrong decision to scrap the schemd? Why | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
are members across the Housd urging the government to apply to the | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
European solidarity fund for the Secretary of State only to say | :53:08. | :53:14. | |
consider this? Why is she dhthering about this? Why do she not `s get on | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
with it? Why is the comment refusing to supplement the recommend`tion on | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
the Fire Service? The service has lost thousands of firefightdrs since | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
the floods. Does she not thhnk that the pressures on the Fire Sdrvice | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
and an extraordinary professionalism including flood response is a | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
statutory duty? Sure our foreign rescue service -- Fire and Rescue | :53:39. | :53:40. | |
Service not be supported? As the Environment Agency h`s said | :53:41. | :53:51. | |
the UK needs a rethink of flood defences which must include better | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
management of river catchments, estuaries and lower land ardas. The | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
last Labour Government developed innovative thinking, agreed to all | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
recommendations of the revidw and started the process of impldmenting | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
them. We also cast B flat and water management Act 2010 but the | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
Coalition Government wasted the next five years. Labour's Act gave powers | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
to require land management to protect assets for flood protection. | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
Why hasn't it make better use of these powers? Can't cheat -, can she | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
tell us why they we requirelents for sustainable drainage in new and | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
existing developments. Yestdrday the Environment Secretary welcoled the | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
paper which highlights the critical role played by land use in causing | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
and helping alleviate floodhng, especially the protection of natural | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
-- natural capital. Pick ring in North Yorkshire has attractdd | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
attention this week. It highlights how efforts to slow the flood of | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
water from the hills prevented the town getting flooded this thme. I | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
know it is not the only exalple The Environment Secretary said she wants | :55:04. | :55:05. | |
the results used more widelx so I would like to know how she will make | :55:06. | :55:13. | |
this happen. The thorny isste was also highlighted how agricultural | :55:14. | :55:16. | |
policies and associated subsidies pay little or no attention to the | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
flood risk. Examples includdd greater exposure to rapid rtn-off | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
from planted maize, the burning of Heather when it would use is bland's | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
retention of water, farming practices in the upper reaches | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
catchments of flood creaturds. In response to an interventhon from | :55:35. | :55:43. | |
the Honourable Member for Brighton Pavilion, the Environment Sdcretary | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
spoke about getting better value for money for Defra funding on the | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
environment and countryside stewardship schemes. Can shd clarify | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
her comments today, does shd think some of these incentives ard not | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
fully aligned to achieving flood resilience objectives? The NFU says | :56:02. | :56:04. | |
services provided by farmers protecting urban areas downstream | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
are unrewarded and often unplanned. Sustainable drainage systems could | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
beg a positive difference btt progress has been slow and the scope | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
for local -- local authorithes to make progress seems limited. As the | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
climate change committee reported many are yet to finalise strategies | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
despite this being a legal requirement for the last five years. | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
We need a cross departmental approach to flood prevention. 1 00 | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
new homes the year are built in areas of high flood risk. Wd have | :56:36. | :56:40. | |
seen her road networks, hospitals, schools and communications cannot | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
withstand flooding. Will thd secretary of state make surd | :56:46. | :56:47. | |
planning takes into account flood risk? Just as the Government cannot | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
neglect in which regions we need to work across the UK for clim`te | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
change to become adaptation. The Welsh Government this week provided | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
?2.3 million for flood hit communities in Wales and we know | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
flooding has caused havoc across Scotland yet there are fears of cuts | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
to the Scottish Environment`l Protection Agency. People are not | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
interested in more excuses, or empty promises. Put simply, they want to | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
know this Government is doing everything it can to prevent this | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
happening again. We cannot stop the rain but we can stop at least some | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
of the devastation it causes. People are living in fear of floods and | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
need reassurance and that is what they will hear from the Envhronment | :57:31. | :57:37. | |
Secretary now. I am grateful to the opposition for securing this | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
important debate today. We have seen extreme weather over the last month | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
including the highest ever rainfall in the north-west, record rhver | :57:47. | :57:48. | |
levels across Lancashire, and Yorkshire rivers and metre higher | :57:49. | :57:55. | |
than they ever were before. I have every sympathy for those affected | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
throughout the UK. To be flooded is a devastating experience at any time | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
but is truly terrible at Christmas. I want to pay tribute to thd | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
emergency services, the milhtary, the Environment Agency and other | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
responders and volunteers from around the country working `round | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
the clock to help. Many of whom gave up their Christmas. Through daily | :58:17. | :58:23. | |
Cobra meetings we ensure thd necessary resources were deployed | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
early and ahead of the flooding This the military, emergencx | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
services and Environment Agdncy were on the ground and able to provide | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
immediate help. We moved telporary flood barriers to the region and put | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
pumps from across the country to support the response effort. Funding | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
to support those communities, business and farmers has bedn | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
provided in record time is, within three days of the flooding | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
occurring. Money is now with the local authorities so they c`n help | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
people as soon as possible. The Government is to what it takes to | :59:03. | :59:13. | |
get people back on their fedt. I am grateful to my Honourable Friend for | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
making way. She is right money has been distributed quickly but there | :59:18. | :59:21. | |
is still concern amongst local authorities as to what that money | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
can be spent on. I wonder if she could clarify for the benefht of | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
local authorities to make it clear that the fund -- what the ftnds can | :59:31. | :59:41. | |
be spent on what they cannot. He is right, there is the bellwether | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
funding councils can claim but also the money provided to counchls for | :59:46. | :59:48. | |
local residents of businessds where they can claim up to ?5,000 for | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
resilience measures for thehr homes. It is there to cover the costs | :59:53. | :59:58. | |
councils have incurred but `lso to cover the immediate support to | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
residents and businesses. I encourage residents to cont`ct their | :00:04. | :00:06. | |
council so they can receive that support. Repairs have been completed | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
to the Foss barrier in York and it is operational. It will now be | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
upgraded with new pumps to dnsure it can cope with higher volumes of | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
water. The flood recovery envoy for Yorkshire, with me today, whll be | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
producing a plan to repair the tab Casterbridge early next week, and | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
will be meeting local residdnts It is a national priority. I whll give | :00:31. | :00:39. | |
way. Will the Minister accept the situation in climate change is that | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
one in 200 year events are becoming one in 100 Gerry Adams, and Paris | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
has accepted that with another degrees to world temperaturds, and | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
surely there is no excuse for now bringing forward more investment, | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
more than we planned under the 007 review, urging Government to bring | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
in more investment than currently agreed. I thank the Honourable | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Gentleman for his point. In response to these weather events, whhch we | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
haven't seen before, absolutely we are reviewing the resiliencd we have | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
on a national level and looking up our climate change models. Currently | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
climate changes in our six-xear plan but clearly in light of recdnt | :01:23. | :01:31. | |
events we need to look at that again, and we are committed to do | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
that. The Honourable Lady h`s been talking about our plans for flood | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
investment. She has said we need a long-term strategy. This Government | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
has put in the first ever shx-year plan for flood defence spending | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
Unlike the party opposite who ran a year to year budget when thdy were | :01:47. | :01:53. | |
in office. The Honourable L`dy's predecessor in the job, in the | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
run-up to the election, reftsed to match our pledge, that we would | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
increase flood defence spending in real terms. Her predecessor refused | :02:02. | :02:10. | |
to confirm that during the general election campaign. The realhty is | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
that we increase spending in real terms over the amount spent by the | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
Labour Government from 2005,10, and we will increase it again in real | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
terms under this Parliament. She asked about flood maintenance | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
spending. We are spending ?071 million on flood maintenancd, and | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
have said, in the Autumn St`tement, announced by the Chancellor, before | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
the stewards took place, we said we would protect that as well hn real | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
terms. So both those bits of money are protected. I want to answer what | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
the Honourable Lady has said and I will give way to the Honour`ble | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
Gentleman. She has asked about the ?800 million figure from thd | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
Environment Agency, which w`s part of their long-term investment | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
scenario. This analysis is based on total investment, not just central | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
Government spending, both c`pital and maintenance spending, and if she | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
read the entirety of that rdport, she will see that it concluded that | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
current spending plans are hn line with the optimum levels of | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
investment over the next ten years. The Honourable Lady needs to read | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
the entire report, not just cherry pick sections of it. I will give way | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
to the Honourable Gentleman. I'm grateful to her for giving way. We | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
need to invest. Significant parts of the Proms are experiencing climate | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
change. Can I ask therefore why they are stopping investment into | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
renewable technologies and will they review the catastrophic dechsion to | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
stop support for onshore wind, a technology that will help us in | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
future which we desperately need in Scotland. My Honourable Fridnd the | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
climate change secretary is doing an excellent job in achieving | :04:02. | :04:03. | |
affordability for our consulers at the same time as hitting thd carbon | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
budget targets. Not only th`t, she also helped negotiate the f`ntastic | :04:11. | :04:18. | |
deal in Paris. I am extremely grateful to the Secretary of State | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
for giving way. It has been a rather tedious backwards and forwards about | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
the money, and the fundamentals are the Government is spending lore on | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
flood defence. Once we get over that attempt at point-scoring whhch comes | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
relentlessly from the party opposite we move onto the more important | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
question, how to spend. Dat` Helms suggests the thinking behind the | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
spending has not been sufficient with economic reality. How do we | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
make sure we spend our limited money regardless of who's in power on the | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
most most effective defence for the maximum number of people and | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
corporate interests rather than in areas where it should not bd | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
justified. My Honourable Frhend makes a good point, and that is | :05:02. | :05:09. | |
exactly why, in December, I re-appointed DTS helm as ch`ir of | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
the natural capital committde, so he can look at this issue and lake sure | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
we are spending money holistically -- I re-appointed Dieter Helm. That | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
works hand-in-hand with our 25 year environment plan. We will announce | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
the framework that shortly. That will acquire a lot of work with a | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
lot of people involved, what companies, the Environment @gency, | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
local communities, farmers `nd landowners. I think we can get | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
better value for money which is precisely why we are moving in that | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
direction and carrying out that work. There is a famous Chinese | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
problem, however, witches, the best time to plant a tree is 25 xears | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
ago, and the next best time is today, so yes, we need to plan for | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
the long term it does take time to ensure we get everything in order. I | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
will give way. I'm grateful. She will be aware that chapter five of | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
the Paris Agreement is about the need to protect forests and have | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
more trees in the world of we are to tackle some of the problems of | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
carbon, but doesn't it also have relevance for flooding? Wouldn't she | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
agree that part of the work she has just described, it is important look | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
at whether we need more tree-planting in this country, and | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
of course the House itself has taken initiatives in the past through the | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
Westminster would and the N`tional Forest to try to encourage tree | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
planting, but perhaps we nedd more. I thank my Honourable Friend for his | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
point. I want to make all mdmbers aware that we have a tree planting | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
scheme for schools at the moment, which we are in collaboration with | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
the Woodland Trust, and schools can apply, we are close to the deadline | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
so people should look that tp. It is part of our pledge to plant 11 | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
million trees over the course of this Parliament, but of course, I | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
think we can do more, and it is certainly something Dieter Helm will | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
be looking at as part of thd work on the natural capital committde. I | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
want to finish the point on the natural capital committee which | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
number of members have menthoned, the issue of the Somerset Rhvers | :07:17. | :07:25. | |
authority. That is a very good model for how we get better local | :07:26. | :07:27. | |
engagement, how we get more decisions taken on the ground by | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
people who understand the l`ndscape, how we look at wider issues. The | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
Minister for development is looking at the Cumbria partnership to do | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
that and we are interested to hear from local areas who want to develop | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
those schemes. We need to move to a catchment basis. That is thd basis | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
on which our environment pl`n is being developed, and we are working | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
on that at the moment. We are due to announce the framework towards the | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
middle of next year with a plan to finalise the 25 year plan l`ter this | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
year, which will work closely in conjunction with our 25 year plan | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
for food and farming. I will give way. In the same way she is now | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
looking at a strategic approach to flood defences, could she not make | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
the case for a strategic approach to planning within the flood plains, | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
because, as I have already said both in the statement and early hn an | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
intervention, the issue of flood plains often goes beyond just one | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
particular local authority, and the planning decisions on one local | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
authority area affect floodhng often in several local authorities. | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
Are you the day, it is very clear in the national bowling policy -- | :08:44. | :08:58. | |
national planning framework that new housing should not be built with | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
others the flood risk. -- as I made clear yesterday. She has bedn very | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
generous in giving way this time. She said that in real terms the | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
government was spending mord. Perhaps you could expend to me and | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
to the House why in her own departments funding trends paper of | :09:20. | :09:27. | |
December the total real terls spending is shorn from 2005 to 015, | :09:28. | :09:39. | |
2016 -- shown. In the last xear of the Labour government 724 mhllion. | :09:40. | :09:48. | |
If not any single year sincd then has this government match that | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
funding except in 2014, 2014 when an extra boost of 140 million dmergency | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
funding was given to appear at the defences that had been destroyed in | :09:59. | :10:12. | |
the floods. The fill your -, the figures are... Here stone to make a | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
speech and I suggest he does not do know. --Do that now. I have given | :10:20. | :10:43. | |
way in a number of occasions. I am pleased that she was given weight | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
given that 20% of England trains through my constituency and she | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
confirmed yesterday that thd ?8 million of funding a safe and secure | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
that we have the next six ydars She was asked yesterday about the ? .2 | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
billion bid which was not rdjected by the government rejected by the | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
Environment Agency because ht would increase flood risk in my | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
constituency. Will she commht from the dispatch box to working with the | :11:10. | :11:16. | |
Humber MPs cross estuary so that we get the defences we desperately need | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
in the most flood prone are` of England? My honourable friend makes | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
a very good point in that wd do not want to have schemes in one area | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
that protect part of an are` and then end up increasing flood risk in | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
other areas. That is the importance of a catchment wide managemdnt | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
system that we're developing. I and the floods meeting already due to | :11:41. | :11:49. | |
meet Humber MPs. -- the floods minister and I will take a very | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
close interest in the matter. Over the next six years we have set out a | :11:55. | :12:02. | |
programme. We are investing ?2. billion in flood defences and this | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
is the real term increase of the ?1.7 billion we invested in the last | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
Parliament and again and increasing the 1.5 billion spent by Labour We | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
have made the first ever colmitment to protect maintenance spending as | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
well at ?171 million per ye`r, adjusted for real terms. But let's | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
remember why we have real money to invest in those flood defences. | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
Remember what happened when Labour left office in 2010. The thdn Chief | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
Secretary left a note saying I am afraid there is no money. The | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
reality is that Labour would not have had the money to invest in the | :12:43. | :12:50. | |
flood defences as we have. The factors that at the 2015 general | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
election the Labour Party rdfused to match our pledge. It is onlx with a | :12:56. | :13:06. | |
strong economy that we can `fford these flood defences and all of the | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
long-term plan that we can lake our country resilient and give out and | :13:11. | :13:19. | |
it is the protection they ddserve. As a member of the Parliament for | :13:20. | :13:27. | |
Dumfries and Galloway, badlx affected by storms Desmond `nd Frank | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
I am glad to be able to spe`k in this place. Before I speak `bout the | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
response of the Scottish Government and incredible work of emergency | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
services and the unbelievable resilience of local Trinity 's, I | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
want to deal with the wording of the motion that is being put before the | :13:47. | :13:57. | |
House today. -- local communities. I have been astounded by the | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
procession of idea logicallx based propositions by the party opposite | :14:05. | :14:12. | |
and also by their mudslinging going on. The Scottish Government are | :14:13. | :14:20. | |
performing in the circumstances are marginally better and you would ve | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
thought they have learned a lesson from the disastrous police debate | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
motion. The mud slung at my party and the Scottish Government and this | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
motion is to criticise the cut to the Scottish Environment Agdncy for | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
next year. Before I deal with that I would like to make explicitly clear | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
one thing about the torn of this debate. Micah stitchers desdrve | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
better. Your constituents ddserve better. All about this -- all of our | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
constituents deserve better. They do not clear when they are cle`ring up | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
the sewage and debris from the front room about the mudslinging `nd | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
political point scoring and this chamber. They want to know what we | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
can do to help stop you want to know that we care about their plhght and | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
they want to know that we are on top of the process and the plans to | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
ensure we can minimise the risk of severe flooding in the future. But | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
there is a recognition in the light of factors like global warmhng that | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
we mean air -- we may never be able to devise plans when mother nature | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
decides to sneeze as she has recently. But he says is cldarly | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
heartfelt but surely they are concerned, and I speak for ly mother | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
who was one of them, about the % cut that the Scottish Government is | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
imposing on flood defences. Is he really going to defend that? Is he | :15:50. | :15:59. | |
going to defend the cut? I do not seem to be able to continue because | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
they are chuntering so much. I am trying to speak of them but they are | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
so noisy that I cannot get ` word in edgeways. Whilst enjoying the | :16:10. | :16:16. | |
intervention I have to say that a lot of people don't speak and if we | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
can keep interventions as short as possible I would be very gr`teful. | :16:20. | :16:34. | |
Why is he defending the 6% cut? If he can be with me, I will ddal with | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
that point and if he had opdned his years he would know that. If your | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
mother is a consent of mine please can you offer her services to help | :16:46. | :16:56. | |
in any way we can possibly can? Madam Deputy Speaker, I was politely | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
offering the honourable gentleman the assistance of my office if his | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
mother has been affected by the floods. The wording of the lotion | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
and was in Scotland is this House notes with concern the recent | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
decision to impose a 6% cut in funding to the Scottish blood agency | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
yet in the last three calendar years commenting on this year there has | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
actually been a cash increase from 36.4 million to 39 million. The 6% | :17:27. | :17:36. | |
cut pertains to next year and has not affected in any way the ability | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
of Scotland to deal with thd travesty that has been causdd over | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
the last week or two. Never mind all colleagues in the chamber that all | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
budgets across the UK at sole level have had to stomach a cut? H'm very | :17:50. | :17:57. | |
interested to hear the cut hs for next year. Is that because xou | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
believe it is less likely to be a risk of flood next year? As the | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
Right Honourable gentleman will be aware our budget is set by | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
Westminster and not by us and a few beers with me, perhaps I will | :18:11. | :18:19. | |
enlighten them a little bit. -- if he beers with me. --Bares whth me. | :18:20. | :18:35. | |
The Scottish Government has attempted to protect the budget | :18:36. | :18:52. | |
--Bear with me. We believe hn Scotland that the local authority is | :18:53. | :19:04. | |
best placed to deal with thdse demands and the Scottish Government | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
will support these in any w`y we can. Our government has nevdr | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
refused funding for flood ddfence on the basis of cost. The Scottish | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
flood forecasting services `re protected in their entirety to 020 | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
and will not be subject to `ny cuts. Good flood defences not onlx about | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
how much you spend but how xou choose to spend it. As a victim of | :19:30. | :19:40. | |
the floods in West Kent in 2013 I miss you will have the monex that | :19:41. | :19:42. | |
has been spent by the British government in the whole of the UK on | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
flood defences around the country and I'm astonished to hear the | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
honourable member claiming somewhat bizarrely that nothing has been | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
abused anywhere in Scotland and regards of funding. Is that an | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
alarmist sack of cash into which they Scottish people can get when | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
the rest of the British people in these islands are struggling to pay | :20:04. | :20:11. | |
for what they need? -- is that a bottomless sack of cash? Thd cuts to | :20:12. | :20:21. | |
the budget over the next ye`r have to be seen over the full and proper | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
context. The top row seat of the Scottish Government in this area is | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
the reduction of flooding rhsk in alias alias which is why in 200 the | :20:30. | :20:36. | |
Scottish Government passed the flood management act to produce a flood | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
risk management strategy for the whole of Scotland. We now h`ve 4 | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
such shortages. This is all about forward planning with the end aim of | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
minimising flood damage. As a result of the act we have 42 flood defence | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
protection regimes which will cost an estimate of 235 and pounds was | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
the Scottish Government has agreed to finance. Under the act, flood | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
prevention schemes can seek approval without the rubber-stamp of Scottish | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
ministers giving the local `uthority full responsibility and authority to | :21:10. | :21:11. | |
supplement under a streamlined process. We believe that thdse | :21:12. | :21:21. | |
decisions should be taken locally. River banks are often the focal | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
point of any community and that is not only engineering solutions that | :21:28. | :21:29. | |
have to be found, also buying from local communities is essenthal. In | :21:30. | :21:39. | |
Dumfries that many objections to the plan of the local council for a | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
nerve bank which would remove car parking and views at the river. The | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
local council is now under severe pressure to ensure that the voices | :21:47. | :21:49. | |
of local people are heard in this debate. As part of our flood | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
preparation in Scotland, thd Scottish flood forecasting service | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
has done an excellent job in providing reliable informathon to | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
local authorities in good thme. We have seen the Deputy First Linister | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
committing the Scottish comlittee covering any additional costs for | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
local authorities. A threshold has been said beyond which the Scottish | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
Government guarantees to cover the cost of such emergencies. Following | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
storm Desmond in December 2015, the Scottish, provided ?3.94 million to | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
those local authority areas worst affected could in my constituency, | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
in order to help them support flooded households and businesses. | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
This funding will go out as a specific background to affected | :22:38. | :22:39. | |
local authorities this financial year and local authorities will be | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
able to provide each affectdd House of business with a grant of ?15 0 | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
which is under review. This will reimburse people for not receiving | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
the full benefit of services they receive through council tax rates. | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
For businesses that simply cannot trade. It can also be used to | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
protect homes and businesses against future floods by installing new | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
flood barriers are carrying out flood resistant repairs. Thd | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
Scottish Government has recdntly legislated to give councils the | :23:10. | :23:17. | |
power to remit bills. The ddbtor differs Minister announced the | :23:18. | :23:20. | |
Scottish Parliament yesterd`y that Scottish councils now have ` new | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
power will leave households devastated by flooding of council | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
tax on small business rates and it is considering further help from | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
what the spot is government may be able to go. -- the Scottish | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
Government. -- together. We all witnessed the devast`tion | :23:36. | :23:52. | |
caused by Storm Desmond to our neighbours and friends in Ctmbria | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
and the Borders. In the first wave but that. | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
We saw many areas battle ag`inst the flow of water that was sadlx in the | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
back -- insurmountable. As the storm approached we prepared. The Met | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
office coordinated informathon about expected rainfall in areas `nd | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
issued details of areas to be evacuated. It came further | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
north-east to Perthshire afterwards where we had the most extensive | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
river system and the whole of the UK and the biggest flow of watdr in any | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
community of UK flows through Perth. I am sure he would like to pay | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
tribute to the local authorhty staff and emergency services who dnsured | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
cities like mine were protected and these defences held up. We did a | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
remarkable job and I am surd my Honourable Friend would likd to | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
congratulate him. It is one of the most humbling experiences of my | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
life, and I will touch on that before my closing remarks. The local | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
authorities swung into action. Properties were evacuated whth a | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
focus of moving the elderly and vulnerable. Warnings of what was to | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
come were everywhere, in particular social media playing a valu`ble | :25:21. | :25:29. | |
part. People were highly informed. In the time I spent visiting those | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
affected since the floods I did not hear one complaint about thd warning | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
system or the plans put in place. This coordinated approach mdant we | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
could prepare as best we can. I was incredibly impressed by the actions | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
of all in the aged in this coordinated response. Withott them | :25:50. | :26:01. | |
and this coordinated effort in the warning system things would have | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
been immeasurably worse. On the 13th of December we went to the News of | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
the devastation. I was very concerned to hear the high Street | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
was under more than a foot of water and cars were submerged in car parks | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
on the banks of the river. High tide was expected it 2pm so I put my | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
wellies on and drove up to see it for myself and I can assure members | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
that there are few more surreal moments than walking up the deserted | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
Main Street in a small town you know so well, seeing sandbags piled in | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
shop entrances wading through more than a foot of water. It was | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
bizarre. I met a chap who w`s fighting back tears as he showed me | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
the flooding in his properthes. It was very moving. All we could do was | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
wait for the water to recedd so the damage could be assessed. Thankfully | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
nobody was hurt or stranded. The next day as the water receddd and | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
shoppers cleared the premisds I was delighted that the First Minister | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
join me. She spent almost three hours going from shop to shop to | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
offer support. I did likewise, shall offer the support of my offhce | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
anyway I could. Although we grabbed the headlines, many more towns and | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
villages in the area were affected. Point of order, Philip Davids. The | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
third party, and I highlight the point of the third party, h`ve now | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
been speaking for this debate as long as the Minister. I wonder what | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
guidance was given for the length of speech in a limited time debate on | :27:39. | :27:45. | |
opposition day. I believe the Honourable Gentleman was concluding | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
his speech anyway, but as a third party, there is no time limht so | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
they are at liberty to speak as long as they like. I have to say many | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
interventions were accepted so that also elections the speeches but I | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
would allow the Honourable Gentleman to finish his speech. It is a very | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
energised debate. You shouldn't have to put up too much longer whth me. | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
What we have in Dumfries Galloway replicated worldwide is the | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
resilience of our people. I was struck as cafe owners stroll the | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
streets trying to get peopld food. I was amazed residents were in | :28:25. | :28:31. | |
competition with each other to say they were fine when really they | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
weren't. We should never take this resilience for granted and ht | :28:37. | :28:38. | |
shouldn't diminish our responsibility to deal with the new | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
problem for a new generation. But the weather will not get anx better | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
so we must up the ante to m`ke sure our communities are protectdd in | :28:49. | :28:55. | |
future. Can I say, I want to get a rolling because they understand we | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
all have problems. Can I suggest that we try not to intervend in | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
order that everybody gets epual time. Nigel Adams. Flooding between | :29:07. | :29:14. | |
Christmas and New Year could not come at a worse time for many | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
residents and businesses, rdlaxing away from the pressures of work and | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
several householders and business owners use the break to get away, | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
leaving their properties and attended and were unable to defend | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
homes and possessions from the rainfall. We are no stranger to | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
flooding in Selby, we have had serious floods in 1947, 81 `nd 000, | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
and plenty of occasions between then. I am relieved on this occasion | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
the flood defences protected Selby where to my knowledge not a single | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
property was flooded. Initi`lly the historic village of K Wood was | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
spared. Flood walls kept thd river at bay. The flood defences hn Selby | :29:57. | :30:04. | |
were not overtopped. The wax the agencies responded was superb, | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
ensuring evacuation measures were in place should the worst happdn. | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
Residents who potentially would have to be evacuated were notifidd and | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
rest centres were prepared. It is clear that plenty has been learned | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
from previous flooding incidents. Unfortunately the towns of | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
Tadcaster, Kobe wharf, Church Fenton, a caster, Selby and Bolton | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
were not so fortunate. 16 residential properties and 41 | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
commercial president -- prelises in Tadcaster succumbed to flooding 16 | :30:41. | :30:46. | |
properties were flooded in the West End of the village I live in and I | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
would like to thank all the volunteers, whose efforts, darly | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
action and diligence without action prevented -- without doubt prevented | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
further homes being flooded. I think it is important, I got sick of | :31:01. | :31:08. | |
seeing him he did such a good job! This issue of Paris councils is | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
important. The volunteer emdrgency plan team in the village swtng into | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
action. Don't we need to le`rn from that. They can do more than the | :31:18. | :31:27. | |
county councils can stop Whhte I understand you want to get on the | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
record but if you want to m`ke a speech you should put your name in. | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
Just to say, can I advise everyone, I want to treat everybody f`irly and | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
equally. It was a lengthy intervention. I agree with ly | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
Honourable Friend and neighbour It is exemplary what some of these | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
flood wardens have done, many parish councillors and we should t`ke our | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
hats off to them. Church Fenton had three homes underwater adjacent to | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
the former RAF base. I would like to thank the Prime Minister for joining | :32:02. | :32:08. | |
me affecting those in the vhllage. This approach meant a lot to | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
families in Church Fenton. Nearby Kurd Kobe wharf, a dozen holes | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
affected, ironically bought delete Mac before a flood defence solution | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
was implemented, but even whth that in place there was a signifhcant | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
amount of flood water. Tadc`ster famous for its brewing, its viaduct | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
and 300-year-old Ridge, has attracted worldwide media attention, | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
and I want to take a moment to comment on the response to the | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
flooding in Tadcaster. Along with 100 residents I attended a public | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
meeting the day after the Boxing Day when volunteers signed up to help | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
the relief effort. Alongsidd the group residents were fortun`te to | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
have the assistance of Team Rubicon, volunteers assisting the people of | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
Tadcaster and surrounding vhllagers following the devastating ilpact of | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
the flooding. Following the partial collapse of the bridge, Teal Rubicon | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
volunteers who travelled from all over the UK assisted the arly with | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
evacuation of homes until the risks of leak from gas had been lhfted, | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
and I would like to single out the incident commander for the response | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
and his colleague for the ldadership they provided during the recovery | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
stages and the response. Thdir volunteers in conjunction whth the | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
town's flood group under thd town council staff did an incredhble job | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
and their support will not be forgotten. It is fair to sax a | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
response to this was almost exemplary, the exact -- emergency | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
services, local councils, Environment Agency, charitids, | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
utilities, and Government mhnisters but above all residents on the | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
business community have comd to the town's aid. I would like to mention | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
a recent review by the North Yorkshire Fire authority on changing | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
of Fire Services in Tadcastdr, maybe this crisis is an opportunity for | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
that Fire authority to revisit their decision for downgrading thd | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
services in Tadcaster. As a local MP, I have seen with my own eyes | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
acts of kindness and selflessness since the floods occurred that will | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
stay with me for a long timd, in fact all communities affectdd have | :34:21. | :34:22. | |
shown incredible resilience and community spirit that is thd best of | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
Yorkshire and the best of British. Can I take this opportunity to | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
welcome a longer term appro`ch to flood defence spending, and also the | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
national flood resilience rdview. Mr Speaker, parts of my constituency | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
including Tadcaster have a long and potentially arduous road ahdad as it | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
recovers from the storm, and it is crucial we stand by its people, the | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
businesses, the town council, district and county councils. The | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
Government has made a good start this response but this problem not | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
only requires a short-term response but the medium and long-terl | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
solutions. Rachel Reeves. Thank you. For many people in my consthtuency | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
of Leeds West, Christmas has been ruined by floods which have | :35:09. | :35:10. | |
devastated homes and businesses On Boxing Day night the river showed it | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
on the fourth and burst its banks following days of heavy rain. Small | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
businesses were forced to close as the Armley industrial museul with a | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
nature reserve badly damaged as well. Businesses of all sizds lost | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
machinery, premises and stop with workers laid off. I have bedn deeply | :35:31. | :35:37. | |
moved by the Solidarity civhc leaders and community volunteers as | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
they all pull together to hdlp those in most urgent need begin the work | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
of clearing up the damage. H would like to paper to kill a tribute to | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
Leeds City Council leader Jtdith Blake and council staff who came out | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
to collect waste, clean strdets and help those most affected. In | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
Kirkstall I want to pay tribute as well to the work of councillors We | :36:00. | :36:08. | |
had nearly a thousand volunteers just in Cork still -- Kirkstall in | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
the last ten days. These people whose acts of everyday herohsm could | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
never be individually itemised maybe huge difference which will be felt | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
for years and decades to cole. It is at times of adversity we often seek | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
unity is that strongest and I have never been so proud to be the MP for | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
Leeds West. Today I want to focus on two specific issues for the longer | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
term. Flood insurance and flood defences. First on flood insurance, | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
it is essential for businesses. Small businesses who will struggle | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
through the loss of revenue and costs as they do with the ilmediate | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
aftermath cannot then be hit by huge unaffordable premiums in thd months | :36:48. | :36:54. | |
ahead. It is hugely welcome, the new measure, but it will not help small | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
businesses, only those in residential properties. We lust look | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
at this again and I urge thd Government to do so, to help those | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
affected get affordable instrance, and the Government should t`ke that | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
action. It is also important that adequate funds are made avahlable | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
for resilience, including flood doors, Everett seals, waterproof | :37:16. | :37:17. | |
coating and other measures which will help businesses help whth | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
future floods. This must be on top of the ?50 million allocated for | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
immediate support, for example with reductions in council tax and | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
business rates for those affected. The second issue I want to raise is | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
that of flood defences. The 201 climate change risk assessmdnt | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
identified flooding as the top risk to the UK from climate change. The | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
Government must wake up to the fact that extreme weather events are now | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
an increasing feature of Brhtish weather, and must reassess the cuts | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
to flood defences. The Primd Minister said today in PMQs that no | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
flood defence scheme had bedn cancelled since he became Prime | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
Minister. I would ask the Sdcretary of State to correct the record. In | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
2011, faces two and freaks of the Leeds flood defence scheme were | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
cancelled. Phase two, which would have covered the west of thd city | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
including Kirkstall to provhde a one in 75 year standard of protdction | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
was cancelled. Fages phase three which would extend to horsewhip and | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
provide a one in 200 years standard protection was also cancelldd. Over | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
?100 million of defence schdmes in Leeds alone have no funding. Only | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
full flood defence system would protect the businesses in Khrkstall | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
which were hit so badly on Boxing Day. I welcome the fact that the | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
Secretary of State has agredd to meet with me and other Leeds MPs, | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
but I would ask her and the Government to insure that money is | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
available so the tragedy we saw on Boxing Day can never be allowed to | :38:57. | :38:58. | |
occur in my city of Leeds again I do not think any of us will forget | :38:59. | :39:10. | |
this was to 15 and a hurry. Just as the honourable lady for Leeds West | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
talked about this surplus htmanity -- selfless humanity, each `nd every | :39:17. | :39:24. | |
one of us saw that. -- 2015. I have never seen anything like th`t. We | :39:25. | :39:32. | |
cannot name all the people we would love to thank publicly so I will | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
have to do that in another way that Gillian Darbyshire and her dntire | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
team have given up ten days of the Christmas holidays to man the | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
emergency service and they were absolutely superb. -- centrd. | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
Marshall Scott from rubble valley also give up ten days. -- rdbel | :39:55. | :40:11. | |
--Ribble. The dustmen also came out so that silvers and furniture could | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
also be removed from the street -- sofas. For lives on the way from | :40:17. | :40:26. | |
Watford coming up the motorway had about the floods and went into the | :40:27. | :40:36. | |
town and helped clear Lady's House of all her debris and got b`ck in | :40:37. | :40:48. | |
the car and drove back to Scotland. They have brought in fridges and | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
cookers and microwaves and over ?1 million worth of goods that they | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
have handled another 1000 volunteers. I know that you have | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
spent time dealing with floods and shortly and I know that you will | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
want to give thanks to people who are given so much support. ,- in | :41:06. | :41:20. | |
shortly. --Chorley. We clearly do need a view of the flood defences | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
and Sir James Bevan has says that will happen. We need to makd sure | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
that they are done properly and we get signage when we go into the pub | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
about when the toilet was l`st green so how about public information | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
about when the gullies were last clean and when they will next be | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
cleaned. Building on flood planes is absolute bonkers. There was a famous | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
scene on Facebook of one of the field in my constituency whhch had | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
been given permission for 38 houses to be built well underwater. We have | :41:57. | :42:04. | |
to look for the sponges that exist throughout our constituencids in | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
order that they can take thd flood waters. The extra building that is | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
going on is insane and we rdally need to look at that and thd use of | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
woodland that has been menthoned. The new insurance company is great | :42:17. | :42:23. | |
but it will not cover houses after 2009 and a lot that have bedn built | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
since 2009 summer to look at that and I think the premise givdn | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
indication we are to look at what is happening with businesses as well. | :42:33. | :42:42. | |
Dredging cannot be beyond the wit of them as to whether dredging works | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
does not. If it does work, do it. We are spending ?29 of the next two | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
years and if it does clear the way some of the great and debris that | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
means that the water can flow through, let's do it. That hs lots | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
more I will last the Ministdr to look at in the period that H have. | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
In the meantime I would just like to say on behalf of everybody who has | :43:05. | :43:12. | |
shown selfless humanity over the last few days, thank you very much. | :43:13. | :43:20. | |
The impact of the floods and Cumbria have not been overstated and homes | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
and businesses are facing significant damage and schools and | :43:25. | :43:26. | |
roads have disintegrated. The estimated cost of damage and Cumbria | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
has recruited ?609 but the truth is likely to be higher. The ro`d from | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
Grasmere to Keswick has become impassable. This is a key route for | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
many people including many travelling to schools. The damage | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
caused this road has involvdd at 35 mile additional journey which is | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
having a profound impact on the time and cost of everyday life. Support | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
survivors welcome but until it translates to a new road surface it | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
is not enough. The highways of it in Cumbria County Council needs the | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
government to be more proactive in repairing key roads and | :44:05. | :44:07. | |
infrastructure. I ask the Sdcretary of State for Transport to ptt our | :44:08. | :44:16. | |
timeline on work to the Road and he said it is not a matter of | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
government. The shouting of shoulders by government simply will | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
not wash. It is time to sow some leadership. This road is to be | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
opened before Easter is that as a critical time for the two lhst | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
economy particularly around Keswick and surrounding areas. -- to Vista | :44:31. | :44:47. | |
economy. -- two list. --Tourist Blood should not affect medhcal | :44:48. | :44:56. | |
services. --Cobra Should not be convened every time there is a | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
flood. -- flooding should not affect medical services. A hospital in | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
Carlisle was running a back,up generator without staff are bed | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
sheets. This proved the shedr folly of transferring services. Hdavy rain | :45:12. | :45:19. | |
should not mean that patients cannot access health services. Rain in the | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
Lake District should not le`d the international news bulletins. In the | :45:26. | :45:27. | |
wake of the flooding at the beginning of December, I called on | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
the government to create a dedicated Cumbrian infrastructure. Thhs should | :45:33. | :45:42. | |
improve the response to any future funding of which there will be more. | :45:43. | :45:49. | |
-- flooding. I would be grateful of the Minister and his sponsors able | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
to undertake this in his response. -- in his response. The key issue at | :45:56. | :46:02. | |
the heart of this debate is of course resources. The resources we | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
need for flood defences and to improve community resiliencd and to | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
rebuild. It is unfathomable that the government reluctant to apply for | :46:12. | :46:21. | |
funding from the EU Solidarhty fund. The government should commit to | :46:22. | :46:23. | |
seeking these valuable resotrces from the EU fund specifically set up | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
to help minute is that had been flooded. The objective of the | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
comment should be to help committees recover with the resources they need | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
as quickly as possible and not to sacrifice his committees in order to | :46:36. | :46:38. | |
save the polar Mr's face or assist with the eternal management of the | :46:39. | :46:48. | |
Conservative Party. -- internal I hope the Minister is able to explain | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
that the government is going to give support to those who badly need as | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
quickly as possible. My constituents have experienced three | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
once-in-a-lifetime flooding events in the last ten years. We nded to | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
look at dredging fell what management and bridge reloc`tions | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
and so much more. -- fell what management. -- water. My | :47:14. | :47:29. | |
constituency must be part of Leeds, being one of the highest | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
constituencies in the area. We would not expect to see too much flooding | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
but on Boxing Day I foolishly agreed to do a seven mile run along | :47:38. | :47:45. | |
footpaths. It starts near mx home and given the constant rainfall we | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
had over the preceding weeks, despite that I was surprised to see | :47:49. | :47:55. | |
the levels of water. Usuallx that is a little trickle but know the full | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
width of the road was running like a river and on top it was even worse. | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
I have never seen anything like it. I knew at that point that this would | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
be bad for the downstream and particularly towards the city | :48:12. | :48:14. | |
centre. We have localised flooding in my area and retail parks and | :48:15. | :48:21. | |
shops were affected in the river burst its banks. Although this was | :48:22. | :48:30. | |
bad it was much worse for the donor for in the constituency of the | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
honourable lady. The river was at 3.3 metres in the retail park there | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
were flooded and the servicds is mad constituents use along the @65 and | :48:41. | :48:49. | |
the trains getting into Leeds and Bradford were all council. There has | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
been much talk for Leeds flood defence scheme and it is cldar we | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
must get this right. I was pleased to join my fellow MPs from the city | :48:58. | :49:06. | |
for a cross-party request for a meeting with the Minister. H was | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
gutted yesterday that she whll discuss flood defences. -- H was | :49:14. | :49:21. | |
glad to hear. It is also important that we make sure we get it right | :49:22. | :49:24. | |
for the downstream as well. Committees further down the line, we | :49:25. | :49:33. | |
need to make sure that no unintended consequences and also upstrdam. What | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
we do in a gear such as mind will have a knock-on effect. I h`ve | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
raised an too many occasions by concern about plans to build on the | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
green belt. The counsellor `re planning to build over 70,000 homes | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
which means we need to find sites for them. -- the council. Wd have | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
built and brown field sites and no real live the green belt Lookout and | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
some of those sites are flooding now. Where 300 houses are proposed, | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
that site is like a lake. Another hundred houses proposed in `nother | :50:07. | :50:20. | |
area is the same and in horse first --Horsforth there are furthdr houses | :50:21. | :50:23. | |
proposed. We need to make stre we know with what will go. -- where the | :50:24. | :50:31. | |
water will go. We need to m`ke sure we do not build on flood pl`ins and | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
related talk to local busindss people with their experiencd. We | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
need to be a lot smarter about the concept of mitigation running from | :50:43. | :50:45. | |
these developments. It is not just about rates of run-off but `lso bad | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
for the, otherwise the consdquences for people further down the river | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
will be severely affected. So I hope we will learn from experiences we | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
have suffered in Leeds and `cross the country and across Yorkshire. In | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
conclusion, I want to see that I want a page to bit older people on | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
the City Council and of voltnteers and the businesses and some | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
ministers are to the time to contact and to Leeds for setting up an | :51:14. | :51:22. | |
appeal which I hope all is going to help people in Leeds. I'm glad this | :51:23. | :51:30. | |
is taking place because my constituency of Rochdale suffered | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
heavily from these floods and inflicted much pain on many people | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
throughout Rochdale and Littleborough. As alarming `s these | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
floods have been I've never been more proud to present Rochd`le after | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
I witnessed the response to these floods that the people of Rochdale | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
have made, doing an absolutdly incredible job in some very | :51:54. | :51:56. | |
difficult circumstances and I would like to pay tribute to the | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
outstanding compassion and commitment from volunteers, | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
particularly from council staff To name but a few, Saint Barnabas | :52:03. | :52:10. | |
church did and enormous job and the landlord of the Fleet chief public | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
Little Brown was amazing. I even have to pay tribute to the | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
Conservative club and Littldborough through acted as a great hub within | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
the village where many people came on many occasions. I would `lso say | :52:22. | :52:26. | |
that the Asian Muslim committee and the masked in particular right | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
across Rochdale with a sterling job in helping and assisting people and | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
we had our team of city and refugees out there filling sandbags to help | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
the committee particularly hn Littleborough. -- Syrian refugees. | :52:42. | :52:51. | |
The ?59 made available by the Chancellor is very much welcome and | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
I think there are some questions to be asked about how quickly that was | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
got out to local authorities. The leader of Rochdale council lade a | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
sterling job in terms of directing the local authority to help people | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
but it did raise concerns about the fact that the Treasury might have | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
been delaying getting that loney out there. I would raise 12 points for | :53:13. | :53:19. | |
the Minister to consider. -, one or two points. | :53:20. | :53:26. |