12/01/2016 House of Commons


12/01/2016

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is promoted. I would like to see that spread across the Maghreb and

:00:00.:00:00.

elsewhere, this is a great lodel from Rockwood Excel and for other

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countries to Berlin. -- for Morocco to XL. I beg to move that ldvy given

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from Mike -- for me to bring in a bill to strengthen penalties related

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to serious criminal driving offences that leads to serious injurx or

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death. To redefine such offdnces and amend bail conditions for those

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charged with them and enhance the standards of investigation by the

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police in the courts into stch offences to prove of victims of such

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offences and their families with injustice and connected purposes.

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2014-15 so 289 people killed in England and Wales alone due to

:00:48.:00:54.

dangerous driving. But in too many of these cases and even mord so

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where lesser charges have bden brought instead, victims of the

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serious crimes and their falilies have been badly let down and we need

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in number of changes to enstre proper justice is lived in the

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future. I was pleased with 22 of the colleagues to meet the secrdtary of

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state yesterday and I thank the Minister for his personal interest

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in this matter. I was surprhsed and disappointed, as were colle`gues,

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were being told there is a further consultation which will not produce

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a document until later this year having had an answer from the

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minister suggesting that because of these in itself would be colpleted

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in spring 2015. The message today is to encourage them to continte to

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work with as and ensure that in 2017 and not later we get conferdnce of

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legislation. I today speak of the half of many families from `cross

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the country. I had to offer cases, the case of 16-year-old Jimly still

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killed by a reckless crimin`l driver on new year's even 2010 and then

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David and Dorothy met, from Oak Ridge killed in January 2012 and I

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dedicate this bill to the mdmories of Jamie, David and Dorothy and all

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who have lost their lives from these serious crimes. Today it is 18 years

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ago that Livia Galli Atkinson was killed in Enfield and I want to pay

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tribute for the tireless calpaigning by her parents, George as Jtliet, as

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well as Karen and Rebecca Strong and Kai -- Clive Metcalfe and hhs

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family. I also wish to menthon a number of honourable members and

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cases they've been involved in. The family of Olivia have been supported

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by the Thames of Southgate, Liverpool and West Derby. John

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Morley supported by the current and previous MPs from other works are,

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the case of Jon Holland and Chris Jarvis supported by the member of

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Reading West, the case of Ross Sinclair Symons and supportdd by the

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member of Kingswood, Genie butchers supported by the member of North

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East Cambridgeshire at the case of Joseph Brown latte is abortdd by the

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member of Heywood and Middldton and support from Manchester's Kdy 1 3

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with -- radio station. Also the sporting of the family of Alex

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Jeffrey, the member of the Hsle of Wight supporting the family of EV

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Stanley and many other cases, including the member for East Ham,

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whose own father was killed by a careless driver in 1992 and I pay

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tribute to all the families who are campaigning tirelessly trying to get

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justice and we will support them here until we get a change hn the

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system. The changes today come from a meeting of those families and

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fellow members back in Decelber 2014 and the manifesto we producdd as a

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result backed by Break, the Road safety charity and I pay trhbute to

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their amazing work. There is a number of changes that I will

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briefly list as part of my bill today. Firstly, the distinction

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between careless and dangerous driving is a false and unhelpful

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one. Often coming to slight and subjective difference betwedn

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someone's driving following below are well below what is expected of a

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careful and competent driver. The problem is into many cases people

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are simply given charges of the lesser charge of careless driving or

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causing injury or death by careless driving rather than dangerots

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driving because it's easier for prosecutors to see the convhction of

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those of the difference in penalties is huge, five years maximum for

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death by careless driving whereas up to 40 by causing death by d`ngerous

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driving. Kilis is an open -, inappropriate and offensive term to

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use the criminally bad drivhng the -- careless. Particularly where it's

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resulted in horrendous suffdring and driving that only fault slightly

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below the standards, a moment to lapse of concentration, it light be

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careless but it is still dangerous. The reality is that careless

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driving, which is the chargd that was opposed in the first pl`ce, has

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institutionalised dishonestx into Arab justice system and that needs

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to be rectified. Careless m`kes a value judgment about the intention

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of the perpetrator. Are justice are stem -- system. Any killers driving

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causing an accident is facttally dangerous. We should scrap both

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charges and have a system where all dangerous driving is regarddd as a

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category of offence, which can have the minimum or maximum as it gives

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judges discretion because jtst know their hands are tied once a lesser

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charge has been brought to the court and families are being filldd up and

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down the country. We also nded to look at sentencing and the fact that

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too few higher sentences ard given out. The Government last ye`r

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roughly introduced a new offence of causing serious injury whilst

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dangerous driving, something that in the past had been missed out. This

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new charge should carry a m`ximum mayoralty of 14 years, the cost of

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care as well as the devastation of people or seriously injured and can

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never work again, possibly hn some cases can never speak or opdrate

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normally again. That has got to be taken as seriously as causing death

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by dangerous driving. Drivers who kill or are under the infludnce of

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drugs or drink can face up to 1 years in jail but there is `

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perversity in that if a driver flees the scene to sober up, that can be

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impossible to prove, leaving only a hit and run offence, which has the

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insert -- absurdity of encotraging people to flee the scene of

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obstructed justice. It and run drivers should face the samd maximum

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penalties a lot -- as other drivers who kill and series Injera, with the

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assumption if we a scene th`t they must have a reason to do so and that

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would suggest guilt. We also need to look at the suspension, the

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automatic or resumption of suspension of a driving licdnce as a

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condition of bail in cases of dangerous drivers who seriotsly

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injure or kill. In the case of Jimmy still, the practice of that crime

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was driving for nine months in the very area, the very town prdtty

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killed 16-year-old Jimmy. C`n you imagine how that felt for the family

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to see him driving? Including along the same road where Jenny w`s

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killed? That is happening m`ny cases. -- Jamie. Victims of criminal

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driving her charges have bedn brought should be treated bx all

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parts of the judicial systel as victims of crime. They are currently

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not set as doing so and oftdn, therefore, are not given thd same

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support as victims of other crime when the devastation is exactly the

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same as any case, for example, of manslaughter. There needs to be

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worked on and this is more completed and I ask the Minister to work with

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his former colleagues and the Department for Transport to have

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more appropriate investigathon of collisions, better guidance and

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better advice in terms of rdleasing evidence to victims' familids, which

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in a number of cases we havd looked at have simply not happened

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adequately. Victims and famhlies are not always given access to dvidence

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and have to trust the CPS to do its job properly, and too many of these

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cases show they cannot. The Department for Transport must in

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all cases stop describing incidents of criminal driving or somebody has

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been harmed as accidents. The CPS already does not use the word

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accident to refer to crimin`l driving offences but the Department

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for Transport continues to do so, exacerbating the suffering families

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by the sense somehow these `re not real cravings despite the

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devastation because. We need changes throughout the justice systdm, to

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prosecutions, to sentencing add to the very charges in the first place.

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To give justice in the future and your families who suffer from these

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of all crimes and of course to deter people who behave recklesslx behind

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the wheels of the vehicle. H make the offer to work with them if they

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wish to talk about this bill, we can discuss the content. But we must see

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a change across the border to robust deliver justice for victims and

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their families. The question does our honourable member has ldad to

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bring in the build? As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the

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contrary, "no". I think the ayes habits. -- have it. Who will bring

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in the Bill? Criminal driving justice for victims

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Bill. Second reading what today Friday the 11th of March. Friday the

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11th of March. Thank you. Order The clerk will now proceed to rdad the

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orders of the day. Housing `nd land in Bill is amended in committee to

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beat further considered. We begin with Emmett 131 which with ht it

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will be convenient to consider the other amendments and new cl`uses

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listed on the selection papdr will stop to move amendment 1301H call

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doctor Roberta Blackman Woods. Thank you very much. I would just say at

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the beginning to the Ministdr that it is a pity we are dealing with the

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four most contentious aspects of this bill. I think it is a real pity

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that the Government did not accept our alterations to the programme

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motion which would have madd it a bit more sensible. I am going to

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begin by looking at the valte of social housing. We tabled a number

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of amendments to chapter two on a range of issues relating to the for

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sale. And then the 92 would ensure the replacement of property locally

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and ensure that that is included in legislation. And then there's 9 and

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94 would give local authorities more agency over defining high-v`lue and

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limit the amount of houses sold in a particular area to 10% of their

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stock. -- amendments 93 and 94. I want you to challenge her gdntly on

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her comments. -- and wanted to challenge her. And the we agreed to

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the changes be asked for. Wd voted against the programme motion. An

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amendment 53 safeguards replacement of like-for-like housing and that it

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will not exceed... Any homes sold will not exceed the sale value of

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the original property. Cert`in types of specialist housing from

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high-value determination. However, due to the extremely limited time

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today I did not want to spe`k in detail on these particular

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amendments. I am going to focus on amendments 131 to 141 which would

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leave out all the clauses in chapter two, effectively removing it from

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the bill. Labour members ard not against local authorities m`king

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sensible decisions about thdir assets. However, that is not what

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the clauses in this chapter of the bill would do. It will forcd local

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authorities to sell off much-needed council housing even when they have

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huge waiting list. The estate manager of Quaker Court stated that

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many council halls of London in places like Quaker court ard likely

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to be deemed high-value bec`use this is where -- and this is where

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governmental legislation will have the most severe impact. Of course it

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is not just the loss of council properties in high-value ardas. The

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impact of this policy would surely be for those properties to love into

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the privately rented sector, meaning that the housing benefit bill is

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likely to increase for the same properties to be rented out. Indeed.

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My honourable friend makes `n additional point about how truly

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appalling and indeed nonsensical this particular policy is. The point

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he makes is what I hope to come to later. He says this is about as

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high-value and area as you're going to find. Every time we get `n empty

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council flat, instead of th`t going to the next person on a council

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waiting list, and particularly in Islington which has 18,000 people on

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it, it is going to be sold hn the private market. There has bden real

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concern expressed that the Government's expectation of the

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number of houses to be built as a result of selling off high-value

:15:45.:15:48.

housing is much too high. It says the Government appears to h`ve

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vastly overestimated the nulber of homes that have become vacant that

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might be defined within the local authority area and that intdrval

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have a negative impact on the replacement of sold off homds by

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housing associations. The Chief Executive the chartered Institute of

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Housing stressed that more funding needs to be made available for

:16:08.:16:14.

affordable housing. Full compensation for housing

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associations will be absolutely vital if they are going to be able

:16:18.:16:20.

to build more affordable holes for people who cannot afford to buy the

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stop and they say that extr` funding is needed. There is concern

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provisions in this chapter of the Bill will lead to less council

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housing being available, and with such replacement housing th`t

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doesn't materialise being ott of the financial reach of many, many

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people. We know that housing waiting lists will become longer, pdople

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will be forced to stay in tdmporary accommodation for longer, which of

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course will mean a greater cost to local taxpayers. Councils whll have

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less incentive to invest in stock as it may boost the value abovd the

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arbitrator shall. Moreover the reduction in the number of social

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homes available will intenshfy competition for private rented

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sector rose at the bottom of the market, driving up rents. Isn't the

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concerned is the oral context of Government policy? -- to sed this in

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the context? It'll be very difficult for most housing associations to

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replace their sold propertids on a like-for-like basis. I can burn to

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the select committee yesterday there is no new money at all in the

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comments said spending revidw for social housing. At the end of this

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parliament there almost certainly be fewer council homes to rent than

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there are now. My honourabld friend makes an excellent point and one we

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want to emphasise this afternoon. There is not additional mondy to

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provide the replacement affordable housing and as we want to dhscuss,

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there are no provisions in this bill to allow for a like-for-likd

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replacement for homes sold off and on the same local authority. So the

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chapter is damaging not onlx to those who housing, but it whll have

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a negative knock-on effect hn the private sector, meaning there is

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simply no respite for a bowling ham -- low income families. The

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Government must reconsider this section of the bell and takd this

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chapter out of it. She talkdd about the impact on homelessness. If you

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think it is also the case that there are probably across the country

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millions of families in housing need waiting for appropriate

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accommodation. It constituent I met last week has two children `nd lives

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in a one-bedroom flat, and one of the children had skin cancer. The

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waiting desperately for a two-bedroom. You should get a

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property? A person in that property need or somebody who could H on the

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open market? My honourable friend makes a truly brilliant point and

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one that we need to reflect on in the chamber this afternoon. That is

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what many councils are tellhng us, that they have thousands of people

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on the waiting list and yet what this measure will do is redtce

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further the homes that will be available to them. Moving on quickly

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to the page to state provishons of this bell in chapter four of part

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four. Again as the minister will be aware we have tabled a numbdr of

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amendments to chapter for trying to make the EPA to stay provishons more

:19:50.:20:03.

palatable. An amendment 95 ,- we want to ensure the system whll be

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tapered. Amendment 50 that the insurable laboratories and housing

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associations take into accotnt a degree of diversity and sochal

:20:16.:20:21.

cohesion in their communitids. Amendment 59 insurers remit --

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ensures rents remain afford`ble And MS 96 and 61 both look to ghve some

:20:33.:20:39.

notice of protection should tenants be moved on to higher rent, with

:20:40.:20:45.

amendment 96 giving tenants transitional protection and time to

:20:46.:20:49.

enable them to relocate to `nother party if that is at all possible.

:20:50.:20:54.

Amendment 61 would establish the high income rent would only apply to

:20:55.:20:58.

new tenants and that they would be giving a new tenancy agreemdnts

:20:59.:21:03.

Other amendments are designdd to ensure that what is considered to be

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high income is based on loc`l realities and a multiple of median

:21:08.:21:12.

income. But again, the lack of time the bill has been afforded together

:21:13.:21:16.

with the incredibly unfair nature of these clauses means I will be for

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her thing on amendments 144 to 50 and 152 to 153. -- I will bd

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focusing. We are not necess`rily against a gradation in red paint,

:21:30.:21:34.

but we do not think the pagd to stay proposals that remain in thd bill

:21:35.:21:40.

are in anyway acceptable. -, a gradation in rent paid. The

:21:41.:21:46.

proposals will hit people on modest incomes heart is. It is simply a

:21:47.:21:51.

continuation of the Governmdnt's assault on council tenants. Local

:21:52.:22:00.

authorities and housing associations already have the discretion to

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charge higher income tenants higher rents. I give way. Have Westminster

:22:04.:22:11.

Council not let the cat out of the bag on pay to stay with eight

:22:12.:22:18.

leaflet they distributed last week on a guide to the right to buy

:22:19.:22:22.

social mobility fund which stated, under Government proposals,

:22:23.:22:26.

households with an income greater than ?40,000 will pay subst`ntially

:22:27.:22:30.

increased rent. This is an opportunity to avoid this and become

:22:31.:22:35.

a homeowner. If paid to stax not about driving home ownership rather

:22:36.:22:41.

than actually reflecting income in rents policy? I think my honourable

:22:42.:22:46.

friend makes a really relev`nt point about these particular proposals.

:22:47.:22:50.

Why is the Government now ilposing the scheme on councils if it is not

:22:51.:22:56.

to punish council tenants, `nd what have we done to deserve this unique

:22:57.:22:58.

vitriol The threshold as it stands `s 3 ,000

:22:59.:23:09.

per household in London at ?30, 00 rattled outside London. This would

:23:10.:23:13.

hit people in the Chancellor's new minimum wage, something most people

:23:14.:23:17.

would think is quite disgraceful. The policy will hit those working in

:23:18.:23:22.

low paid jobs the artists and that's where it will have the most

:23:23.:23:26.

devastating effect. I will give way. Thank you. One of the examples that

:23:27.:23:33.

has been given to me is that you can have a tenant who has been offered a

:23:34.:23:37.

promotion at work but has ddcided to turn that down because of the

:23:38.:23:41.

consequential impact on an hnk used read these proposals will ghve. Is

:23:42.:23:45.

this not mean this will put an attack on aspiration? Absolttely. I

:23:46.:23:51.

could not agree with my honourable friend more. I think it is `n attack

:23:52.:23:59.

on aspiration, leaving some families with really impossible choices. As

:24:00.:24:05.

Tony Stacey, chair of shippdrs which represents 100 housing associations

:24:06.:24:08.

said, this policy conflicts with the Government's record on getthng -

:24:09.:24:14.

sorry, the Government's deshre on getting be going to better paid work

:24:15.:24:19.

and said it a bit perverse compared to the Government's other policies

:24:20.:24:23.

of getting to me -- wanted to make work pay. It would seem that if the

:24:24.:24:28.

policy goes ahead in people who are paid more for additional work

:24:29.:24:33.

undertaken off promotion cotld face a sudden increase in rent or

:24:34.:24:39.

eviction. It's interesting to see the Government caved to pressure

:24:40.:24:41.

from housing associations and has removed the degree of compulsion

:24:42.:24:45.

from them, but that only me`ns council talents to tennis are being

:24:46.:24:51.

singled out for the application of these extraordinary measures and as

:24:52.:24:57.

councils are saying these p`rticular provisions are unworkable in any

:24:58.:25:00.

case, could the Minister thhs afternoon explained us why he has

:25:01.:25:06.

insisted that they should rdmain for council tenants. If we move on

:25:07.:25:12.

quickly, Mr Speaker, I will give way. Thank you. Is the honotrable

:25:13.:25:18.

lady seriously suggesting to the house that people should receive

:25:19.:25:23.

heavily soft of eyes that exercise housing even if they are in very

:25:24.:25:28.

high incomes? As I think we did our best to explain to the honotrable

:25:29.:25:36.

gentleman, it's often not stbsidised and the point we are making is that

:25:37.:25:41.

councils already have the dhscretion to apply a higher rents for higher

:25:42.:25:46.

incomes if they choose to do so What we are querying this afternoon

:25:47.:25:49.

is why the Government is introducing an element of compulsion and for

:25:50.:25:59.

council tenants only? Moving on Mr Speaker, I will give way brhefly. We

:26:00.:26:04.

want to kill this myth about the size cattle housing Housing review

:26:05.:26:08.

account under the basis of which this Government change the rules

:26:09.:26:11.

following the proposals frol the previous Government, are self

:26:12.:26:14.

funding. There is no subsidx, the only subsidy around is right to buy

:26:15.:26:19.

goods discount at a starter home discuss the Government is proposing.

:26:20.:26:27.

-- soccer mum discount. I think my honourable friend has won that

:26:28.:26:34.

particular round of the deb`te. So shocking is part five of ch`pter

:26:35.:26:37.

four that we have simply tabled amendments to remove all of it from

:26:38.:26:42.

the bill. We have tabled amdndments to leave out both clauses 88 and 90

:26:43.:26:50.

and the schedules that relates them. We see no value in amending the bill

:26:51.:26:54.

as we can only be of the Met -- ending a security of tenure the

:26:55.:26:58.

council tenants for what it would be, one of the greatest travesties

:26:59.:27:02.

to the future of affordable housing in this country and the onlx

:27:03.:27:07.

position we can adopt is to ask for it to be taken out of the Bhll

:27:08.:27:11.

entirely. Three decades frol now when are grandchildren are looking

:27:12.:27:14.

back on the decisions of Ar`b generation concerning housing, their

:27:15.:27:20.

social mobility will have ddclined a bit with previous generations. - of

:27:21.:27:24.

our generation. Despite what David Cameron might think of the

:27:25.:27:29.

instability of this Governmdnt policy creating. Having a stable

:27:30.:27:32.

home to grow up in is cruci`l for working families whose incole barely

:27:33.:27:36.

affords them an adequate st`ndard of living. Children should not be faced

:27:37.:27:39.

with the threat of having to change schools every two - five ye`rs when

:27:40.:27:45.

the council was forced to rdview the tenancy contracts of their parents.

:27:46.:27:50.

This could have disastrous dffects on their education. Like a number of

:27:51.:27:54.

colleagues, I was brought up in a council house and thus was `ble to

:27:55.:27:58.

acquire better educational opportunities than my parents as a

:27:59.:28:03.

result of growing up in a stable home with security of tenurd. We

:28:04.:28:08.

want to ensure that option dxists for families who needed tod`y. Yet

:28:09.:28:13.

the Government is removing the most basic protection for tenants that

:28:14.:28:18.

has existed in Arab country for decades, that council housing would

:28:19.:28:22.

be provided by local authorhties to secure rented homes for people on

:28:23.:28:26.

low incomes. -- in our country. And that those would be of a good

:28:27.:28:30.

quality. The Government needs to stop a cat -- attacking council

:28:31.:28:35.

tenants. I thought we had cross-party agreement to cotncil

:28:36.:28:38.

housing sector should not only be valued but that measure shotld be

:28:39.:28:43.

put in place to enhance its attractiveness and availability

:28:44.:28:45.

rather than being attacked hn the way in which we see in this bill. In

:28:46.:28:52.

1979, 40 2% of Britain's le`ding council houses, now it is ldss than

:28:53.:28:56.

8%. Government investment in social rented housing was cut by two thirds

:28:57.:29:00.

when the Coalition Government came into power. While the Government

:29:01.:29:05.

pledged a 1-1 placement for every home that was sold under thd right

:29:06.:29:09.

to buy, the latest figures show that for every nine homes being sold all

:29:10.:29:14.

me one is being replaced. The Government is wrong in its

:29:15.:29:17.

assumption that Carizza Ter`n - tenants with security of tenure can

:29:18.:29:22.

afford to buy a home or livd elsewhere. In recent study found

:29:23.:29:25.

that 91% of homes in England and Wales were unaffordable to

:29:26.:29:30.

home-buyers, even in some areas where they are the national average

:29:31.:29:36.

income of 26 and a half thotsand. Local authorities under the localism

:29:37.:29:39.

act of 2011 already have thd ability to offer flexible tendencies if they

:29:40.:29:47.

so choose. Again, I would stress to the Minister and his colleagues on

:29:48.:29:57.

the front bench opposite, why the degree of compulsion and whx attack

:29:58.:30:02.

council housing tenants in this way? Recently a woman living in ` council

:30:03.:30:06.

house in London told the Gu`rdian, in the long run, London needs as

:30:07.:30:10.

service workers as much as we need London. Most of us will not be able

:30:11.:30:15.

to survive the current rent`l prices. We are no longer able to

:30:16.:30:20.

share, no longer of the age, I will give way in a minute. We ard no

:30:21.:30:23.

longer of an age where we c`n share a flat with ten other peopld, this

:30:24.:30:28.

is a shift in the goalposts that believe people like me in a

:30:29.:30:34.

desperate conditions and I give way. My honourable friend mentioned a

:30:35.:30:39.

lady working in London who hs concerned about people like her for

:30:40.:30:46.

the economic reasons. Is my honourable friend aware of the

:30:47.:30:53.

concerns of the housing crisis as it is iterative by the London Gimber of

:30:54.:30:56.

commerce and industry saying that the housing crisis in London is

:30:57.:30:59.

affecting London's economy `s well as, as we know, the human cost of

:31:00.:31:08.

the housing crisis in London? My honourable friend makes an dxcellent

:31:09.:31:12.

point and it is one that we have pointed out to the Minister on a

:31:13.:31:14.

number of occasions and provided some evidence to him at comlittee

:31:15.:31:19.

stage of the bill. If I movd an to the final section on the right to

:31:20.:31:25.

buy. I give way to a honour`ble friend. I thank my honourable friend

:31:26.:31:30.

forgiving way and she is making a powerful case. She rightly lentions

:31:31.:31:35.

London, as do a number of colleagues because this is an acute issue. Is

:31:36.:31:39.

she not also concerned this is an issue up and down the country and

:31:40.:31:44.

the Government's approaches making a sham of their promise to support

:31:45.:31:50.

localism when the riding Russia over the ability of local guides us to

:31:51.:31:53.

use discretion in this important area? Indeed. I think, I totally

:31:54.:32:02.

agree with my honourable frhend and I am really pleased that shd has

:32:03.:32:06.

reminded me that we need to ensure that we look at the provisions of

:32:07.:32:09.

this section of the Bill and how they affect council tenants and

:32:10.:32:12.

local authorities up and down the country. Labour has tabled

:32:13.:32:19.

amendments to chapter one of part four to try and limit the ndgative

:32:20.:32:23.

impact of the rights to buy provisions, amendment 88 wotld look

:32:24.:32:27.

to protect certain types of specialised housing and amendment 89

:32:28.:32:31.

would acquire housing situation is offering the right to buy it to

:32:32.:32:35.

their tenants in London and elsewhere to reinvest all of the

:32:36.:32:39.

money in replacement afford`ble housing, including a guarantee to

:32:40.:32:43.

like-for-like warns in the same local authority area or London

:32:44.:32:47.

borough and that is an amendment that is mixed together with the

:32:48.:32:52.

honourable member for tooting. We have also tabled amendments that

:32:53.:32:54.

would prevent property sold under the right to buy to be convdrted

:32:55.:33:00.

into buy to let dwellings for a period of ten years and to dnsure

:33:01.:33:04.

the discount from homes sold on to the right to buy remains in

:33:05.:33:08.

perpetuity and that housing associations are able to carry out

:33:09.:33:13.

proper checks before proceeding with the right to buy. Yet again we find

:33:14.:33:17.

ourselves stretched for Thahland facing a chapter that has the

:33:18.:33:23.

potential to decimate the housing sector. As Max transfer timd and

:33:24.:33:30.

facing. Shelter has estimatd is a red 113,000 homes could be lost

:33:31.:33:32.

immediately through the provisions in the bill and the IMF has said

:33:33.:33:37.

that due to the schemes's ctrrent vagueness and the coalition's less

:33:38.:33:41.

than impressive record in ddlivering replacement housing under the right

:33:42.:33:45.

to buy, there is a risk that these policies will lead to a further

:33:46.:33:48.

depletion of the social housing stock. What seems to have complete

:33:49.:33:53.

consensus across the housing sector is that there is no guarantde for

:33:54.:33:58.

like-for-like replacement for homes that are sold under the right to

:33:59.:34:02.

buy. Of course, the Minister will tell me they are guaranteeing there

:34:03.:34:07.

will be a 2-1 placement for affordable housing, but that needs

:34:08.:34:12.

closer inspection. The Government's new definition for affordable

:34:13.:34:16.

housing contained in new cl`use 31 include starter homes, which can be

:34:17.:34:23.

up to ?250,000 outside London and 450,000 in the capital. Meaning that

:34:24.:34:26.

a housing association home sold onto the right to buy but can be

:34:27.:34:32.

considered to have been replaced by another house or another to homes

:34:33.:34:37.

that will be for sale at up to a quarter of ?1 million or allost half

:34:38.:34:44.

?1 million in London, this hs not replacing like-for-like in `ny terms

:34:45.:34:47.

of the imagination. I give way to my honourable friend. Can I th`nk my

:34:48.:34:53.

honourable friend forgiving way The definition of affordable holes has

:34:54.:34:57.

been described by one honourable member of this house as elastic and

:34:58.:35:01.

misleading. Would she agree that definition of injuries by the

:35:02.:35:08.

honourable member for Richmond, correctness and being a deldgate

:35:09.:35:16.

this week. My honourable frhend makes an excellent point and I think

:35:17.:35:23.

what we are trying to bring to the debate this afternoon is th`t the

:35:24.:35:29.

Government's proposals do not bring about a like-for-like replacement in

:35:30.:35:34.

terms of the right to buy provisions of this bill and, indeed, h`ving one

:35:35.:35:45.

home for social rent taken `way and two very Spencer for Mr Byers the

:35:46.:35:48.

replacement does not seem to add up to a sensible policy to most people.

:35:49.:35:57.

I think again we know the Government wants to push up the weights of

:35:58.:36:00.

homeownership, we too think there should be measures to promote

:36:01.:36:05.

homeownership but we do not think they should, the expense of the

:36:06.:36:12.

social red to the Merc renddring sector or local authority sdctor

:36:13.:36:15.

either. I will give way to ly honourable friend. -- social renting

:36:16.:36:23.

sector. The idea that a ?450,00 homes for sale can replace socially

:36:24.:36:27.

rented homes and do so not hn the same area, which as I understand

:36:28.:36:31.

from what the honourable melber for Richmond Park told the new Journal

:36:32.:36:35.

last week, he may wish to clarify that point, but getting rid of

:36:36.:36:38.

council homes in inner London to replace them with homes for sale

:36:39.:36:42.

advanced inflated prices in outer London or beyond it is unacceptable.

:36:43.:36:49.

-- at a vastly inflated. I totally agree with my honourable frhend and

:36:50.:36:54.

I agree what we are attempthng to do is show how unappealing the measures

:36:55.:36:57.

are that have been put forw`rd from the honourable gentleman for

:36:58.:37:02.

arrangements but also how the simply will not tackle the problem and

:37:03.:37:08.

Londoners. Mr Speaker, part for this bill is nothing but an attack on

:37:09.:37:11.

council housing on council tenants who have already suffered under the

:37:12.:37:16.

Government's bedroom tax and customs services, adding the biggest day

:37:17.:37:19.

provisions and reducing the stock available for allowing -- for rent

:37:20.:37:23.

amounts to a full-blown att`ck by the council housing sector `nd

:37:24.:37:27.

housing associations do not fare much better as the right to buy

:37:28.:37:30.

could deplete their stock whthout adequate replacement. Is a further

:37:31.:37:34.

attack on people on low incomes and most worryingly of all, will do very

:37:35.:37:39.

little and almost nothing to attack the housing crisis and addrdss the

:37:40.:37:42.

housing crisis that so many people are facing. We would like to remove

:37:43.:37:47.

most of part four of the bill, but simply don't have the time for the

:37:48.:37:51.

votes that would be needed to do so. As an indicator of our great

:37:52.:37:55.

displeasure, we are going to move, when it's appropriate, clause 1 22

:37:56.:38:03.

to a vote. And removing amendment 80 nine. What we are calling on the

:38:04.:38:07.

whole house to do is to rejdct this awful bill later today.

:38:08.:38:09.

The question is that the amdndment be made. Nicola Blackwood. H shan't

:38:10.:38:20.

detain the House long, I'm not sure anyone will hear me. I know that my

:38:21.:38:24.

constituents will expect me to raise the exceptional challenges of the

:38:25.:38:29.

Central Oxfordshire Housing Market. There are many measures in this Bill

:38:30.:38:41.

will be welcomed locally. This raft of policies to build more affordable

:38:42.:38:45.

houses, though commendable, are not enough. These houses do need to be

:38:46.:38:50.

built in areas that need thdm the most. The high cost areas are either

:38:51.:39:01.

where growth is the highest or where markets and sites are hard to come

:39:02.:39:05.

by. In some areas like Oxford, both is happening and high growth is

:39:06.:39:09.

becoming constrained by failing local housing markets. I know many

:39:10.:39:13.

colleagues have local difficulties with housing so I will expl`in our

:39:14.:39:20.

challenges briefly. Median full time earnings are now ?26,500 in Oxford.

:39:21.:39:28.

House prices are 16 times the earnings of the average worker. The

:39:29.:39:34.

Centre for Cities Analysis has found that Oxford to be the least

:39:35.:39:40.

affordable city in England. The number of people who own thdir own

:39:41.:39:44.

home in Oxford is well below the national average. Median prhvate

:39:45.:39:48.

rent is ?300 a week, which hs over half of median earnings. And 30 of

:39:49.:39:54.

residents rent compared to 25% in London. The House of Commons Library

:39:55.:40:00.

has found that Oxford City Council delivered zero affordable homes in

:40:01.:40:06.

2013/14 and only 20 in 2014/15. They rank as the fourth worst in the

:40:07.:40:11.

country for delivering of housing of any tenure. We will require in

:40:12.:40:17.

Oxford 1,400 homes to be delivered each year until 2031. Now, we do

:40:18.:40:22.

have lots of specific local problems. We have relativelx few

:40:23.:40:28.

brownfield sites. And we have all sorts of challenges in terms of

:40:29.:40:33.

two-thirds of land being in private ownership which does complicate

:40:34.:40:37.

active public managership. The city has a relatively low-densitx and

:40:38.:40:40.

to the amount of protected `nd to the amount of protected `nd

:40:41.:40:46.

listed buildings. The city has 00 hectares of greenbelt land within

:40:47.:40:50.

the local authority. Nevertheless, when we compare Oxford with

:40:51.:40:53.

Cambridge, which I think is a reasonable comparison, Cambridge

:40:54.:40:59.

provided 550 affordable homds in 2013/14 and 320 in 2014/15. I think

:41:00.:41:03.

it is reasonable for us to call for more to be done. This is catsing

:41:04.:41:08.

significant problems to our local private and public sector. One in

:41:09.:41:16.

two senior academic appointlents fail due to the housing crisis. 30%

:41:17.:41:26.

of local businesses cite hotsing costs as their top barrier to

:41:27.:41:29.

recruitment. The failure to build homes where they are needed by

:41:30.:41:33.

cities constrains growth. This matters to the national economy as

:41:34.:41:36.

well because these cities are the most productive and have thd most

:41:37.:41:40.

jobs. When people cannot afford to live in them, they cannot access

:41:41.:41:43.

these jobs, businesses cannot sell to them and the economy suffers We

:41:44.:41:48.

aren't getting this right ydt. Between 2008 and 2013 there were

:41:49.:41:53.

more homes built in Barnslex t second most affordable city in Great

:41:54.:41:57.

Britain, in which to buy given local incomes, than in London or Oxford,

:41:58.:42:01.

the least affordable cities. More of these homes need to be built where

:42:02.:42:05.

affordability is lowest and where demand is highest in our most

:42:06.:42:10.

successful cities. In justifying Government Amendment 112, and

:42:11.:42:14.

acknowledging the exception`lism of the London housing market, the

:42:15.:42:17.

Minister has accepted that housing in Britain's most economically

:42:18.:42:21.

successful cities is the le`st affordable and that we need policies

:42:22.:42:25.

which target our affordable housing building efforts to our least

:42:26.:42:29.

affordable areas. It is little more than common-sense but all of us have

:42:30.:42:33.

known too many occasions whdn common-sense has fallen by the

:42:34.:42:37.

wayside in our legislative process. Amendment 112 will ensure that

:42:38.:42:41.

enough receipts from the sale of high value homes go to the GLA for

:42:42.:42:45.

them to build two affordabld homes for every one sold. Obviously, the

:42:46.:42:50.

receipts left with the GLA will have to be of sufficiently high value to

:42:51.:42:55.

ensure that. I'm pleased for Londoners and I congratulatd the

:42:56.:42:59.

honourable Member for Richmond Mark in his efforts to secure thhs very

:43:00.:43:03.

important measure for Londoners This is possible for Londondrs

:43:04.:43:07.

largely because house prices are so high and there are huge amotnts of

:43:08.:43:11.

money generated for sale, so it is easy to fund two for one without

:43:12.:43:14.

putting too big a dent in the revenue stream going to central

:43:15.:43:20.

government. In my view, which is unsurprising, given my bias towards

:43:21.:43:25.

Oxford, this should apply to other high-value areas like Oxford, Bath

:43:26.:43:29.

and St Albans. This is how ht might work in our case. My understanding

:43:30.:43:33.

is that around 12% of counchl homes in Oxford would be deemed as

:43:34.:43:37.

high-value and so the counchl would be under a duty to consider selling

:43:38.:43:42.

them when they become vacant. This works out at 29 homes a year to be

:43:43.:43:49.

sold. Our estimates suggests that 29 council homes sold on the open

:43:50.:43:52.

market each year would generate ?8.6 million in receipts so a sililar two

:43:53.:43:58.

for one provision would provide would ensure that ?8.6 millhon stays

:43:59.:44:03.

with the Council for them to provide two extra units for every one sold.

:44:04.:44:10.

Say each high-value council home for ?293,000 each which means ?8.9

:44:11.:44:15.

million is divided into 21. There would be enough going to central

:44:16.:44:19.

government but we would be `ble to provide two for one for Oxford.

:44:20.:44:27.

Amendment 112 (6) gives the Secretary of State the power, which

:44:28.:44:34.

the honourable Member for Rhchmond Park has so valiantly provided for

:44:35.:44:39.

London. That has been writtdn explicitly into the Bill. Stch an

:44:40.:44:44.

exception would be essential for Oxford to ensure we have affordable

:44:45.:44:49.

housing but I remain to be convinced this power will be sufficient to

:44:50.:44:53.

ensure it is delivered following the challenges we have had. The median

:44:54.:45:05.

house price in St Albans is ?392,000. I share her concerns how

:45:06.:45:11.

deliverable it is. We are rhght in areas that suffer similarly with

:45:12.:45:13.

high prices like London to push for it. I hope the Minister takds that

:45:14.:45:19.

into account today. I thank the honourable lady for her intdrvention

:45:20.:45:23.

and I agree with her that the Minister has been very generous in

:45:24.:45:26.

the time that he has taken to discuss with us, and I'm gr`teful to

:45:27.:45:29.

him for offering to have medtings with us to discuss how we c`n

:45:30.:45:36.

implement the measures in 102 ( ) to ensure these measures will deliver

:45:37.:45:41.

for areas like Oxford and other high-cost areas to ensure this

:45:42.:45:45.

commitment will be implemented as a matter of urgency and will `ctually

:45:46.:45:49.

work in practice for areas like mine where residents do face a gdnuine

:45:50.:45:54.

housing crisis and do face genuine hardship on a daily basis. @long

:45:55.:45:59.

with colleagues from high-cost areas like Bath and Cambridge and St

:46:00.:46:03.

Albans, we are clear if necdssary, we will look to the Lords to ensure

:46:04.:46:07.

that these measures do deliver for our constituents because we are

:46:08.:46:10.

clear that affordable housing does need to be targeted to high,cost

:46:11.:46:14.

areas where we face the highest challenges in the country. Thank

:46:15.:46:25.

you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak in favour of Amendment 89 in mx name

:46:26.:46:30.

and in the name of my honourable friend, the Member for Wentworth,

:46:31.:46:34.

and other honourable friends. Colleagues will forgive me `nd I

:46:35.:46:39.

hope understand if I focus ly comments on London. Mr Speaker, the

:46:40.:46:45.

Bill before us will do nothhng to help solve the housing crishs facing

:46:46.:46:55.

London. In fact, on balance - somebody has heckled describing the

:46:56.:47:00.

Bill as "rubbish". In fact, on balance, the likelihood is ht will

:47:01.:47:05.

make the crisis even worse. As a result, London's famed soci`l mix is

:47:06.:47:10.

under threat. Many parts of inner London could be hollowed out with

:47:11.:47:14.

the city becoming the preserve of the very rich. And don't just take

:47:15.:47:19.

my word for it. When the Government published this Bill, the he`ding in

:47:20.:47:24.

the Evening Standard editorhal was "don't lose social homes to fund

:47:25.:47:31.

right to buy". I kept a copx of the newspaper from the day. The

:47:32.:47:36.

editorial said, "The most sdrious objection to the Government's

:47:37.:47:40.

proposal to allow housing association tenants to buy their

:47:41.:47:45.

homes at a discount is that its effect would be to diminish the

:47:46.:47:50.

amount of social housing in London at a time when demand is

:47:51.:47:55.

increasing." To fund the discount, councils would be obliged to sell

:47:56.:48:00.

off higher-priced council homes and given the level of property prices

:48:01.:48:07.

in London, this could potentially be disastrous in its effects. The

:48:08.:48:15.

Evening Standard editorial. I will give way. He is quite right to quote

:48:16.:48:25.

the Evening Standard. For m`ny inner London authorities it means the

:48:26.:48:31.

majority of their council stock would be sold. That is what the

:48:32.:48:39.

Government intends. I have spent a lot of time visiting all 32 boroughs

:48:40.:48:52.

in London this morning. I w`s in Camden this morning. Mr Spe`ker

:48:53.:48:59.

nobody is against the aspir`tion of homeownership, but changes hn this

:49:00.:49:02.

Bill are required even at this late stage in order to minimise the

:49:03.:49:09.

impact on London. That is why I have tabled and supported amendmdnts to

:49:10.:49:12.

the Bill all of which to date the Government have opposed. I `m hoping

:49:13.:49:17.

for the sake of Londoners this changes today. Mr Speaker, @mendment

:49:18.:49:23.

89 is the like-for-like replacement amendment. It would say to housing

:49:24.:49:28.

associations across the country if you are going to go ahead whth right

:49:29.:49:33.

to buy, you have to spend the money raised from the sale locallx on

:49:34.:49:38.

replacement, affordable housing By the way, it's been estimated that

:49:39.:49:44.

the sell-off could lead to over ?800 million a year being lost from

:49:45.:49:48.

London unless there are proper guarantees put in place to keep

:49:49.:49:52.

these receipts in London. At this point, I'd say to the House, be wary

:49:53.:50:00.

of imitations. Other members, other honourable members, are tryhng to

:50:01.:50:04.

fool Londoners by saying thdir amendment to the Bill will protect

:50:05.:50:08.

the city's affordable homes. I refer, of course to Amendment 1 2,

:50:09.:50:13.

in the name of the Secretarx of State, but which cosily the Prime

:50:14.:50:17.

Minister and the honourable Member for Richmond Park announced last

:50:18.:50:25.

week. Whilst we are on, can I pause to congratulate the honourable

:50:26.:50:28.

Member for Richmond Park to becoming a father again this week. I'm sure

:50:29.:50:33.

the whole House which him and his family our very best wishes. I say

:50:34.:50:37.

to honourable members, and to Londoners outside of this chamber,

:50:38.:50:41.

don't be tricked by the spin and hot air coming from the honourable

:50:42.:50:45.

Member for Richmond Park and the Government on this. Don't allow the

:50:46.:50:49.

wool to be pulled over your eyes because all is not as the Tories

:50:50.:50:56.

would have you believe. It hs a con. For a start, Amendment 112 tries to

:50:57.:51:01.

make palatable the Government's plan to sell off council homes in London.

:51:02.:51:06.

The editorial from the Evenhng Standard that I referred to earlier

:51:07.:51:11.

set out three tests to judgd the impact on the Government's Housing

:51:12.:51:17.

Bill. These are a useful test. Let's have a look at how both these

:51:18.:51:22.

amendments measure up to thdir three tests. First, the Evening Standard

:51:23.:51:28.

said it is absolutely necessary to keep money raised by the sale of

:51:29.:51:34.

London council houses in London Test one. Amendment 112 cle`rly

:51:35.:51:42.

fails on this front. The amdndment announced with great fanfard last

:51:43.:51:46.

week fails to ringfence the money for London which means monex raised

:51:47.:51:52.

by selling off London's council homes will still flood out of the

:51:53.:51:57.

capital to subsidise the Government's national right,to-buy

:51:58.:52:02.

scheme. This contrasts with Amendment 89, my amendment, which

:52:03.:52:07.

will ringfence all the monex from London housing association homes

:52:08.:52:12.

being sold under right to bty in London for new affordable homes The

:52:13.:52:24.

second test. The Evening St`ndard said it would be a mixed bldssing if

:52:25.:52:28.

they lost their housing association stock even if it meant more council

:52:29.:52:34.

homes being built in outer London. Amendment 112 fails on this front.

:52:35.:52:40.

It opens the door for homes to be replaced outside the borough where

:52:41.:52:41.

they have been sold off. If there was any doubt this was the

:52:42.:52:52.

case the honourable member of the rich and Park admitted just last

:52:53.:52:58.

week the truth about the Government's on amendment, his own

:52:59.:53:02.

amendment. He owned up that inner London would be hollowed out under

:53:03.:53:07.

his amendment. He said, and I quote, it was a mathematical obstacle to

:53:08.:53:12.

replace social housing in C`mden and other boroughs like Westminster

:53:13.:53:20.

Chelsea, under the money proposals that he has. There you have it. An

:53:21.:53:27.

admission the honourable melber for original part's amendment whll let

:53:28.:53:33.

London be hollowed out and compare that to amendment 89, a replacement

:53:34.:53:39.

like-for-like whole is guar`nteed in the borough where the original home

:53:40.:53:44.

is sold before the rest of the money is sent -- spent on a more

:53:45.:53:48.

affordable housing across the capital. My amendment doing exactly

:53:49.:53:54.

what it says on the 10th. The third test set out in the Evening

:53:55.:53:59.

Standard, it said a healthy housing sector is a mix of private

:54:00.:54:02.

ownership, private rentals `nd social housing. The Governmdnt in

:54:03.:54:08.

its attempt to promote homeownership should not forget the rest. Yet the

:54:09.:54:16.

reality is, and amendment 102, the so-called affordable homes they

:54:17.:54:18.

promise to build could all be homes for sale at nearly half ?1 lillion.

:54:19.:54:27.

Can I tell politely the gentleman for Richmond Park in few people s

:54:28.:54:31.

eyes are homes of ?450,000 affordable. We know just how

:54:32.:54:39.

interested the Prime Ministdr himself is of getting hung tp on

:54:40.:54:41.

what is truly affordable and what what is truly affordable and what

:54:42.:54:45.

isn't. The response of the Prime Minister last week to those who

:54:46.:54:51.

dared suggest that ?450,000 was not really affordable was quite

:54:52.:54:57.

remarkable. The Prime Minister said, and I quote, people get too hung up

:54:58.:55:05.

on these definitions. The ddfinition the Prime Minister said, thd

:55:06.:55:11.

definition of affordable hotse is a house that someone can afford to buy

:55:12.:55:18.

or afford to rent. Just think about it for a minute. Affordable housing

:55:19.:55:24.

is a house that someone can afford to buy or afford to rent. On that

:55:25.:55:30.

measure, some of those expensive homes in London, such as thd ?2 .5

:55:31.:55:39.

million Hyde Park mention sold last year or affordable! Because someone

:55:40.:55:47.

has been able to buy them. This shows just how far from reality the

:55:48.:55:51.

honourable member for Richmond Park and this Government are and how out

:55:52.:55:58.

of touch they are with the housing crisis. The honourable membdr for

:55:59.:56:03.

Richmond Park admitted to the Camden new Journal last week that the term

:56:04.:56:08.

affordable was, and I'm putting this literally, the Odjidja-Ofoe -- the

:56:09.:56:13.

term affordable has become dlastic and misleading and at that point we

:56:14.:56:17.

agreed. I would give way to the honourable member who has bden

:56:18.:56:25.

heckling me loudly and rudely. I thank you for giving way. I'm sure

:56:26.:56:29.

he would never heckle from ` sedentary position. Can I point out

:56:30.:56:34.

the starter provisions give a 2 % price cut every first-time buyer,

:56:35.:56:39.

which is welcome, and in Croydon, my borough, the average 20% discount

:56:40.:56:44.

means a starter home surely be about 220 or 20 ?50,000, which I'l sure

:56:45.:56:48.

even the honourable member opposite would agree is extremely affordable.

:56:49.:56:57.

Really? It usually takes a parliamentarian used car out of

:56:58.:57:03.

touch, he has done it in six months. -- years to become. And I dhd say

:57:04.:57:11.

Shelter have said that the starter home of ?450,000, you have to earn

:57:12.:57:17.

an annual salary of ?77,000 and have a deposit of ?98,000. Put aside the

:57:18.:57:25.

nurse, the junior doctor, the bus driver, people who get a st`rter job

:57:26.:57:29.

in the City of London in ond of the top FTSE 100 companies cannot afford

:57:30.:57:33.

one of the Government's starter homes. That is out of touch. Can I

:57:34.:57:41.

just say, I will give way one last time to the leader of the Lhberal

:57:42.:57:48.

Democrats. He makes a good case What I would just ask him to do and

:57:49.:57:53.

and why he's focusing on London we must not allow the Government to

:57:54.:57:57.

pretend that London is its Pacific and solitary special case. There are

:57:58.:58:01.

many parts of the country, particularly the late to strict

:58:02.:58:04.

Yorkshire Dales, many rural areas where house prices are incrddibly

:58:05.:58:08.

expensive, wages are low and the availability of social rentdd

:58:09.:58:11.

housing is essential to sochal makes in those communities. Does he agree

:58:12.:58:14.

this is a problem not just hn London? Let me to say to thd

:58:15.:58:20.

honourable gentleman, I agrde completely with his intervention but

:58:21.:58:23.

I want to go further, I don't think the Government is making a special

:58:24.:58:28.

case for London, if you combined the Chancellor Bosma Autumn Statement

:58:29.:58:34.

with the, I think the Government has it in for London rather than the

:58:35.:58:37.

Government being a special case As I said, I was in Camden tod`y. The

:58:38.:58:44.

average cost of a property to rent in Hamdan is 73% of the average

:58:45.:58:53.

income in Camden, so much for the mayoral candidate being in touch

:58:54.:58:57.

with Londoners from the Conservative Party. We also discovered l`st week

:58:58.:59:02.

that the Government is watering down the definition of what is affordable

:59:03.:59:06.

to include starter homes th`t cost 17 times the average British salary.

:59:07.:59:14.

Compare that to amendment 88 in my name, this would guarantee ` new

:59:15.:59:19.

home for social rented to rdplace that sold, in short, amendmdnt 12

:59:20.:59:24.

honourable member for Richmond Park, honourable member for Richmond Park,

:59:25.:59:29.

elastic and misleading. The amendment I've pitched out hs clear

:59:30.:59:31.

and firm. It meets the tests that and firm. It meets the tests that

:59:32.:59:36.

Londoners expect and I would urge members, especially anyone who

:59:37.:59:40.

claims to understand the hotsing crisis in London, anyone who helps

:59:41.:59:46.

to fix it, who wants to help fix it to ignore the overblown clahms about

:59:47.:59:52.

amendment 112 and instead stpport my amendments, and amendment 80 nine.

:59:53.:00:04.

-- 89. I will be very brief because we don't have much time to discuss

:00:05.:00:08.

this. Clearly we are speaking about a national issue and a national

:00:09.:00:11.

concern but there can be no doubt housing is the number one issue for

:00:12.:00:17.

London, prices last year rose around 10% on average. The average price

:00:18.:00:21.

now every first-time buyer hn London is over ?400,000. I don't think

:00:22.:00:27.

anyone can argue that Londoners today are being priced out of their

:00:28.:00:31.

own city, it is not justice is a problem and the point has bden made

:00:32.:00:34.

in relation to another city, never it is a jeopardy, it jeopardises

:00:35.:00:40.

London's economy, it is no longer is dissociation and the bottom line is

:00:41.:00:45.

we need to build more. We nded to build the people across the entire

:00:46.:00:47.

income spectrum. It's no good having a polarised approach, with dasy

:00:48.:00:50.

results of the optional 100 social results of the optional 100 social

:00:51.:00:54.

housing on the other. We nedd to ensure the market can accomlodate

:00:55.:00:58.

young professionals, key workers and the like, people who perhaps do not

:00:59.:01:03.

qualify for social housing. I'm pleased by the interventions we had

:01:04.:01:07.

last week my emphasis on sh`red ownership that will work around the

:01:08.:01:10.

country, but particularly it will impact here in London. The London

:01:11.:01:14.

version of the helped by, is very successful nationally, less

:01:15.:01:18.

successful in London becausd we live in a different world, prices are so

:01:19.:01:21.

out of kilter with the rest of the country that this person look -

:01:22.:01:26.

that this is book offer will have an impact and the 2-1 amendment, I have

:01:27.:01:31.

some questions for my honourable friend, he has tabled an amdndment

:01:32.:01:34.

that two new affordable homds will be built for every single hhgh-value

:01:35.:01:39.

council warned that is sold as a hot words of the extension of the right

:01:40.:01:44.

to buy. This is an extension of the amendment and I want to sincerely

:01:45.:01:46.

thank my honourable friend for his diligence in making this work. One

:01:47.:01:51.

moment please. Can I ask my honourable friend, will he said --

:01:52.:01:55.

update the house when he wr`ps up at the end of this bundle, can he

:01:56.:01:59.

update the house at this discussion is of London's local authorhties

:02:00.:02:02.

about how they will be able to work together to deliver the homds London

:02:03.:02:07.

is? I know he's taken part hn discussions but council leaders from

:02:08.:02:10.

all the different parties, both in and out of London, it would be good

:02:11.:02:14.

to have an update on that shortly the stockpiles ask my honourable

:02:15.:02:17.

friend about the housing is a that are essential in the delivery of the

:02:18.:02:23.

next generation of homes, that the G 15 have committed already, H

:02:24.:02:28.

believe, delivering a one-for-one replacement of all homes sold. This

:02:29.:02:33.

also told me they could delhver a great deal more, even, potentially,

:02:34.:02:37.

just one moment, they would even be willing and able to replace each

:02:38.:02:41.

home is sold with two new ones, provided the Government givds them

:02:42.:02:45.

the flexibility is they are asking for and, more importantly, `ccess to

:02:46.:02:48.

public sector land. Will my honourable friend commits to looking

:02:49.:02:53.

carefully at those flexibilhties that the houses of users ard asking

:02:54.:02:57.

for and when he looked at the most critical issue, access to that

:02:58.:03:00.

public sector land, as he knows because he can take some crddit for

:03:01.:03:03.

it along with my honourable friend the member for Uxbridge, London land

:03:04.:03:08.

commission is now alive, it is providing an infantry of all

:03:09.:03:12.

publicly horned Brownfield land in London and we will have the figures

:03:13.:03:16.

shortly. We do not have all the details yet but we know there is an

:03:17.:03:20.

enormous amount of public Brownfield land that could be developed, if you

:03:21.:03:24.

give me one moment. We know that to build the homes we need, th`t lad

:03:25.:03:28.

absolutely has to be used so it would be useful to know when he

:03:29.:03:32.

wraps up if we could have some kind of likely timetable, when whll we

:03:33.:03:37.

have to picture and what will be the process of losing that led to the

:03:38.:03:41.

housing such Asians and devdlopers, and finally, I said I would let my

:03:42.:03:44.

honourable friend in and I will let him for me is not before I finish

:03:45.:03:49.

was a Housing associations. Does he agree that the forced sale of Eddie

:03:50.:03:53.

council properties is is a good or bad idea, but if it is to go ahead

:03:54.:03:56.

does he agree that those properties should be replaced with

:03:57.:04:00.

like-for-like in the same local authority area? Is that his

:04:01.:04:05.

position? As my honourable friend knows, I stood, honourable lember,

:04:06.:04:12.

sorry, I stood on a manifesto that extends to a commitment that

:04:13.:04:16.

includes sending right to bty two houses logician tennis, that is the

:04:17.:04:20.

right policy to enable hundreds of thousands of people to achidve

:04:21.:04:23.

co-ownership who would not be unable to achieve so. That would not be

:04:24.:04:27.

possible without the sale of high-value council homes. That it

:04:28.:04:31.

differs up if, as a consequdnce each sale leads to two new portable

:04:32.:04:36.

homes being built I would rdgard that as being good. I will not take

:04:37.:04:42.

another. I took the likely intervention. Final question to my

:04:43.:04:44.

right honourable friend, wotld he commits to ensuring that thd public

:04:45.:04:52.

bodies can take the widest possible and longest term view of best value

:04:53.:04:57.

when releasing land. This is a point raised time and time again by the

:04:58.:05:01.

developers, great and small, and the housing associations and without a

:05:02.:05:05.

redefinition, and expanded definition. To play on that point.

:05:06.:05:12.

The National office study on the disposal of public land showed there

:05:13.:05:20.

is enough land sold off in the last transfer 109,500 potential loans but

:05:21.:05:22.

does he agree that people do not live in potential homes, delivering

:05:23.:05:25.

actual homes and making surd when the sale takes place that there is a

:05:26.:05:31.

plan in the public interest to ensure something happens in a timely

:05:32.:05:37.

manner is essential? This is absolute essential if we ard going

:05:38.:05:40.

to get the best value of thd publicly available and that will not

:05:41.:05:44.

result from simply a rapid-fire sect, it will require much lore good

:05:45.:05:48.

viewing and strategic view by the public bodies and I hope to see more

:05:49.:05:52.

of that as a consequence of this covenant plasma intervention. I

:05:53.:05:55.

thank my honourable friend `gain for the work he has put into delivering

:05:56.:05:58.

the July from one amendment, I'm grateful and I think it does ensure

:05:59.:06:01.

that this bill words from London. Thank you. Firstly, well, -, welcome

:06:02.:06:12.

to the amendments the Government are good and that the select colmittee

:06:13.:06:17.

announced before Christmas leaning the pay to stay scheme was going to

:06:18.:06:21.

voluntary housing associations. I think that was a sensible move. My

:06:22.:06:26.

argument would be that what is good enough housing should be Goodenough

:06:27.:06:31.

for councils as well and thdy should be discretion on the pay to stay

:06:32.:06:37.

scheme for councils to oper`te within their housing revenud

:06:38.:06:42.

accounts, which receive no subsidy at all from the general taxpayer.

:06:43.:06:45.

That is something the Government could easily do without affdcting

:06:46.:06:49.

the general public finances whatsoever. In the spirit of

:06:50.:06:52.

localism, it's something thd Government should do. In terms of

:06:53.:06:57.

the sale of high-value local authority houses, we live in a

:06:58.:07:03.

different world in Sheffield from the prices in London. When we talk

:07:04.:07:08.

about high view and value houses, the Prime Minister got alarled when

:07:09.:07:13.

he saw council houses being valued at ?1 million. Most of the houses in

:07:14.:07:17.

Sheffield sold under this legislation are family homes, good

:07:18.:07:22.

quality family homes, that would get around 100 to ?150,000. The reality

:07:23.:07:30.

of the Government's puzzles is that all the vacant houses in certain

:07:31.:07:35.

parts of Sheffield will be sold off under this legislation becatse the

:07:36.:07:39.

high value of houses will tdnd to be in the high-value areas. And this

:07:40.:07:43.

means that the people on thd council waiting list there will be dntire

:07:44.:07:48.

parts of cities like Sheffidld were, in the future, there will bd no

:07:49.:07:51.

vacant properties at all, for people to rent. You can be on the waiting

:07:52.:07:56.

list for the homes and the wait will be forever because no vacant

:07:57.:08:00.

properties will ever become available. The Chancellor honourable

:08:01.:08:05.

gentleman chances of the property is being replaced on a like-for-like

:08:06.:08:08.

basis in those areas in a chty like Sheffield for the's the chances of.

:08:09.:08:13.

After the discount for the right to buy plasma have been funded they

:08:14.:08:16.

were simply not be enough money left to replace one social rented

:08:17.:08:19.

property with another social rented property. I simply said to the

:08:20.:08:24.

Government, I accept the Government has a mandate to bring in the right

:08:25.:08:29.

to buy the housing associathon tenants. That is the policy they

:08:30.:08:33.

were elected on. What I would say is, it will be much fairer that

:08:34.:08:38.

policy were funded by the gdneral taxpayer as a whole rather than

:08:39.:08:44.

funded solely by respective social housing tenants who, as a rdsult of

:08:45.:08:49.

this policy, the council selling off their high-value properties, will

:08:50.:08:53.

not have a home to rent in the future. It is unfair that only one

:08:54.:08:57.

section of the community, a more deprived section, should have to be

:08:58.:09:01.

the only ones that find and pay for this particular Government policy.

:09:02.:09:04.

It is totally unfair that those councils that have sold off their

:09:05.:09:09.

properties in a stock transfer will have to make no contribution at all

:09:10.:09:14.

towards this policy and that the totality of the policy that funds

:09:15.:09:20.

house association sales all over the country should be only paid for by

:09:21.:09:26.

some councils and not by others Why is that the Government thinks that a

:09:27.:09:32.

policy that is national in nature should only be funded by sole

:09:33.:09:37.

councils that happen to ret`in their council housing stock? Therd is no

:09:38.:09:40.

logic for that. There will be a lot more agreement with the housing

:09:41.:09:44.

association right to buy and its consequences if Government were to

:09:45.:09:47.

change this aspect of how that policy were funded.

:09:48.:09:52.

I want to go on to the security of tenure and this rather nastx

:09:53.:09:57.

mean-spirited Schedule 4 th`t the Government brought in under

:09:58.:10:02.

Committee Stage. Why are cotncil tenants deemed to be second,class?

:10:03.:10:07.

Why has the Government got ht in for council tenants? When the Committee

:10:08.:10:11.

looked at the private rented sector in the last Parliament, it was

:10:12.:10:15.

obvious, one of the biggest problems people have with the privatd sector

:10:16.:10:18.

is the lack of security. Wh`t we should be doing is trying to give

:10:19.:10:23.

greater security for people in the private rented sector. If you are

:10:24.:10:29.

going to remain there, they need greater security. Why has the

:10:30.:10:35.

Government, instead of giving greater security to private sector

:10:36.:10:40.

tenants, doing the opposite and transferring the problems to the

:10:41.:10:44.

council sector and bringing insecurity to council tenants? What

:10:45.:10:48.

is the logic of that? Let's look at what the impact will be. Let's look

:10:49.:10:51.

for families. This is about families, not just moving home, but

:10:52.:10:56.

potentially having to uproot, change their jobs, find another job if they

:10:57.:10:59.

can, and kids moving school. There is nothing more damaging to the

:11:00.:11:04.

prospects for kids for the future lives that they may have th`n having

:11:05.:11:09.

their education constantly disrupted by having to move house and from one

:11:10.:11:12.

school to another. And that is what the Government is moving to do by

:11:13.:11:19.

bringing in this policy. My honourable friend is making a very

:11:20.:11:23.

powerful speech, as he alwaxs does. And of course this issue is not just

:11:24.:11:28.

going to affect individual families, but entire communities becatse if

:11:29.:11:33.

families feel that they may have to move on within very short pdriods of

:11:34.:11:37.

time, what incentive is there to get involved in your local commtnity to

:11:38.:11:41.

put down roots, to build colmunity ties if they have to be cut

:11:42.:11:48.

unnecessarily soon? I'm surd she can't read my handwriting, but it is

:11:49.:11:52.

very difficult at the best of times, but that is my next point. This

:11:53.:11:56.

isn't just about individuals and their own homes, individuals are

:11:57.:11:59.

part of a wider community, they may have joined their wider ten`nts

:12:00.:12:03.

association, and then they `re told your home has gone, so has the

:12:04.:12:06.

community life, and the comlunity as well loses out as well as those

:12:07.:12:13.

individuals. Let's take a pdnsioner who is retired, who decides they

:12:14.:12:17.

want to move on to a bungalow, or flat, which is more suitabld for

:12:18.:12:21.

their immediate needs. That pensioner in a secure counchl

:12:22.:12:25.

property is now faced with the prospect, because I think this

:12:26.:12:29.

legislation applies to people of retirement age, the Minister could

:12:30.:12:36.

confirm that. They face this prospect of moving on to pensioner

:12:37.:12:40.

accommodation. That will not have a secure tenancy attached to ht. We

:12:41.:12:44.

are asking people to take the risk of moving from a secure ten`ncy in a

:12:45.:12:49.

family home, to move to a pdnsioner accommodation without that security.

:12:50.:12:53.

That is going to undermine lobility and mean that less family homes

:12:54.:12:58.

become available and those pensioners can't move on to more

:12:59.:13:01.

suitable accommodation. If they do, they face a prospect of being turfed

:13:02.:13:07.

out of that accommodation at the will and wish of their landlord

:13:08.:13:11.

This can't be right to put pensioners in this position. I just

:13:12.:13:17.

say to the... On that point, one of the arguments put forward in support

:13:18.:13:23.

of the bedroom tax is it will encourage people to move to smaller

:13:24.:13:27.

properties when opportunitids arise. Isn't what you have said

:13:28.:13:31.

inconsistent with the aims of that policy? It is going to discourage

:13:32.:13:36.

people moving from a secure tenancy into an insecure tenancy of a

:13:37.:13:40.

smaller property. I must sax to the Government, if that is their

:13:41.:13:45.

intention, to try and ensurd that people who have more space hn their

:13:46.:13:48.

home than the Government thhnks they need, the answer is to build more

:13:49.:13:53.

properties in the first place, so we have more socially rented properties

:13:54.:13:58.

for people who need them. Ldt's take this down to an individual

:13:59.:14:05.

situation. A family sat arotnd their breakfast table waiting for the

:14:06.:14:08.

postman to come, or a pensioner couple in their home, who are now in

:14:09.:14:14.

one of these fixed-term ten`ncies, waiting for the postman to come

:14:15.:14:18.

bringing a letter from their local council or housing associathon. This

:14:19.:14:22.

might be called the Lewis ldtter when it drops on people's doormats.

:14:23.:14:27.

That letter, when they open it with trembling hands, will tell them

:14:28.:14:33.

without any forewarning, after a period of six to nine months,

:14:34.:14:41.

whether they can stay in thdir home - these are people's homes `t the

:14:42.:14:45.

end of the day - they can stay in their home at the women the whim of

:14:46.:14:57.

the council, or be whether they will have no home at all from thd council

:14:58.:15:02.

in the future. Just feel thd tension in that household when that Lewis

:15:03.:15:06.

letter drops on the doormat and people open it. Even if the answer

:15:07.:15:10.

is, yes, you have been a good tenant, yes, you can stay in your

:15:11.:15:13.

home for another five years, the trauma this is going to put people

:15:14.:15:16.

through is beyond measure. H just hope the Government will thhnk

:15:17.:15:21.

again. This is mean-minded `nd dreadful, this particular schedule

:15:22.:15:24.

of the legislation. I hope the Government will withdraw it. If they

:15:25.:15:31.

won't, I hope the amendment my honourable friend makes will be

:15:32.:15:34.

successful so we can give everyone the security of tenure that they

:15:35.:15:41.

richly deserve. I have kept the House quite up-to-date in rdlation

:15:42.:15:45.

to my own struggles to get on to the property ladder as a 29-year-old. I

:15:46.:15:50.

managed to get myself on to the property ladder with my partner

:15:51.:15:54.

before the Christmas recess. I have to say when listening to thd speech

:15:55.:15:59.

from the right honourable Mdmber for Tooting in relation to lack of house

:16:00.:16:04.

building, I'm afraid I have been struggling to get on the property

:16:05.:16:07.

ladder, like thousands of other young professionals around this

:16:08.:16:10.

country, and he was a member of that Government which built far fewer

:16:11.:16:15.

houses than we are building today. And thousands of my constittents in

:16:16.:16:19.

Bath, in one of the least affordable cities in the UK, are also

:16:20.:16:24.

struggling to get on to the property ladder. We need to be buildhng more

:16:25.:16:31.

houses now. To anyone that has ever visited Bath, Bath is one of the

:16:32.:16:36.

most expensive places to live in relation to local earnings ratios.

:16:37.:16:41.

In fact, in relation to the recent report by Lloyds Bank, and the

:16:42.:16:50.

latest afford -- affordabilhty review, Bath is ranked as the sixth

:16:51.:16:56.

most expensive place to livd in the UK. Furthermore, with much-needed

:16:57.:17:02.

rail electrification, which is under way on the Great Western Mahn Line,

:17:03.:17:06.

improving train journey timds into London will be unsurprising to the

:17:07.:17:09.

Minister that my constituents will fear the cost of buying a home will

:17:10.:17:15.

become more unaffordable and this will force Bath residents to wait

:17:16.:17:18.

even longer before they can get on to the property ladder. The news

:17:19.:17:22.

that this Government is comlitted to increasing the number of affordable

:17:23.:17:25.

homes in London where gener`tion rent seems to have taken hold,

:17:26.:17:31.

changes like this proves thhs is the party of opportunity, helping

:17:32.:17:34.

everyone to reach those important life goals, such as buying their own

:17:35.:17:37.

home. Therefore, I welcome the announcement that the Government

:17:38.:17:40.

will ensure that in London two affordable home also be built for

:17:41.:17:44.

every unit of high value th`t is sold in the city. May I also

:17:45.:17:47.

congratulate my honourable friend for Richmond Park as well for

:17:48.:17:54.

championing this cause. And I am certain he will make a superb Mayor

:17:55.:18:00.

of London. I'm grateful. He is rightly highlighting the ch`llenges

:18:01.:18:03.

in Bath, and I know it's thd case in Oxford and elsewhere. This principle

:18:04.:18:06.

which our honourable friend, the Member for Richmond Park has

:18:07.:18:12.

identified of two for one, does merit consideration in other

:18:13.:18:16.

hotspots. Does he agree with me that the Minister will look at this

:18:17.:18:20.

carefully? I would endorse his comments. I have seen in thd

:18:21.:18:25.

amendments list today that that is being looked at. Obviously, I

:18:26.:18:28.

welcome the assurance that the Government will look at replicating

:18:29.:18:34.

this in Bath, St Albans and Oxford by the amendment in Sub-section 6.

:18:35.:18:45.

Developments are under way hn other brownfield sites. This will help

:18:46.:18:49.

build more homes on brownfidld sites. I am pleased to see the

:18:50.:18:56.

Government is committed to this Further to amendment, I look forward

:18:57.:19:00.

to working with the Minister as do other colleagues in relation to

:19:01.:19:05.

rolling this out in other hhgh-cost areas. I just like to make ` few

:19:06.:19:12.

remarks about the impact of the Government's proposals on Stockport.

:19:13.:19:16.

The impact of the sale of hhgh-value properties will be an issue in

:19:17.:19:20.

Stockport because property prices are high and land is scarce. Even a

:19:21.:19:30.

committed person will find ht a struggle. In order for high,value to

:19:31.:19:34.

operate fairly, it would nedd to operate on a local level to ensure

:19:35.:19:40.

that no one authority bears the brunt of sales. In Greater

:19:41.:19:46.

Manchester, a high-value level could mean Stockport sells the vast

:19:47.:19:49.

majority of the stock because it is higher-property prices than most

:19:50.:19:53.

other areas in the region, depending on the scale this would havd a

:19:54.:19:57.

significant effect on the ability to meet housing need in the borough.

:19:58.:20:01.

Moving to the issue of pay to stay thresholds, I think the new

:20:02.:20:04.

threshold should take into `ccount the cost of private renting in each

:20:05.:20:11.

particular area as well as hncome. The Housing Bill proposes p`y to

:20:12.:20:17.

stay market rents. That thrdshold is very low. A couple both working

:20:18.:20:24.

full-time at the average Stockport wage of ?19,083 would have to pay a

:20:25.:20:36.

higher rent than their neighbours. In August 2015, the rents of private

:20:37.:20:45.

rented accommodation was twhce those of Stockport and there was ` limited

:20:46.:20:49.

supply. So, clearly, moving to the private sector would not be an

:20:50.:20:53.

option. However, the problel is that ?40 a week is still a lot of money

:20:54.:20:58.

to find and may for a familx be unaffordable. Therefore, ond way out

:20:59.:21:01.

would be to earn less money to ensure they do not meet the

:21:02.:21:05.

threshold by cutting the hotrs they work or leaving a job altogdther.

:21:06.:21:09.

Clearly, that cannot be right as it would have the impact of behng a

:21:10.:21:14.

disincentive for people to work for the maximum amount of hours that

:21:15.:21:18.

they could. This is counter to everything the Government espouses.

:21:19.:21:23.

The cost of private renting varies greatly. So it would be better if

:21:24.:21:29.

the pay to stay market rents if introduced took account of the

:21:30.:21:32.

average income of couples in that area and the rents in the private

:21:33.:21:36.

sector so that there were no disincentives to work. I hope the

:21:37.:21:40.

Minister will also consider the situation of care leavers in his

:21:41.:21:46.

proposal. Housing benefits `ccount for single people under 35 xear also

:21:47.:21:50.

be cut to the shared accommodation rate. This proposal could m`ke it

:21:51.:21:54.

more difficult than it alre`dy is for young people to find a home they

:21:55.:22:00.

can afford. Around 18,000 of Stockport homes current ten`nts are

:22:01.:22:03.

under 35 and are receiving some level of housing benefit. The

:22:04.:22:07.

changes would mean that both the social housing and private rented

:22:08.:22:12.

sectors would become increasingly unaffordable and young people will

:22:13.:22:17.

be at a risk of homelessness at a time when homelessness acceptance

:22:18.:22:25.

has risen nationally since 2009 The typical young person under 35 would

:22:26.:22:29.

need to find the difference between the average Stockport homes rent of

:22:30.:22:34.

?74,60 a week and the shared allowance rate of ?62, which means a

:22:35.:22:41.

cut of ?13 a week once the change s come into effect. That will be more

:22:42.:22:42.

in the private sector. Er Manchester. Care levers `re often

:22:43.:22:56.

vulnerable people with complex support needs and problems that can

:22:57.:23:00.

go on all their lives and bdcause I think it's important that c`re

:23:01.:23:05.

leavers should be excluded from the shared accommodation, housing

:23:06.:23:09.

benefit cap beyond 22, they do not have the alternative of movhng in

:23:10.:23:12.

with family members as many other young people do and are likdly to

:23:13.:23:16.

live alone for longer than the average young person. On thhs basis,

:23:17.:23:20.

it is problematic to impose such a low exemption age and I hopd the

:23:21.:23:25.

Government will consider further the circumstances of care leavers when

:23:26.:23:28.

this bill goes to another place for consideration. Mark Field. Thank

:23:29.:23:34.

you, Madam Deputy Speaker. H think all London MPs particularly London

:23:35.:23:39.

MPs, I welcome any efforts to boost semiand tackle what's becomd an

:23:40.:23:42.

emergency situation for the capital. Search by my City of London

:23:43.:23:47.

Corporation found that even the cheapest 10% of London's hotses are

:23:48.:23:50.

only affordable for the highest earning of 25% of workers in

:23:51.:23:54.

businesses who now believe they recognise the housing supplx costs

:23:55.:23:57.

are a significant risk to the capital's economy. It is

:23:58.:24:02.

increasingly apparent I accdpt there have been other contributions from

:24:03.:24:05.

Oxford, Bath, from Sheffield and other cities here, but therd are

:24:06.:24:12.

some - a really - acute need now for some specific London-based solutions

:24:13.:24:15.

to look at the housing costs and I hope we can capitalise on the

:24:16.:24:19.

enthusiasm we have heard in the House today towards devoluthon in

:24:20.:24:22.

that regard. I would like to share briefly with the Minister the

:24:23.:24:26.

thoughts of my two local authorities and also some local housing

:24:27.:24:29.

associations in the hope we can start to carve out a proper London

:24:30.:24:32.

housing policy I think in almost every speech I have given in this

:24:33.:24:36.

House lot last 15 years on the subject of housing I am lamdnted the

:24:37.:24:41.

increasing polarisation of central London to which my honourable friend

:24:42.:24:46.

for Richmond Park referred where even those on medium and evdn

:24:47.:24:50.

increasingly high incomes h`ve been pushed out to cater for a ndw global

:24:51.:24:55.

super-rich and those who qu`lify for precious social housing. Thd real

:24:56.:24:59.

issue to my honourable friend and I think to Tooting as well, wd as

:25:00.:25:04.

Londoners recognise we have an attractive city very largelx because

:25:05.:25:07.

of the social capital that generations of Londoners before us

:25:08.:25:12.

have built up and many of the future generations of Londoners will not

:25:13.:25:14.

have the opportunity of bendfitting from that social capital th`t is in

:25:15.:25:19.

place. Of course I'll give way. I thank the honourable gentlelan. He

:25:20.:25:23.

represents a major part of central London where we have the highest

:25:24.:25:27.

housing values. We answer the question that the member for

:25:28.:25:30.

Richmond Park completely avoided which is does he agree the

:25:31.:25:34.

two-for-one policy is absolttely worthless unless the income from the

:25:35.:25:38.

sale of those houses is reinvested in the same local authority area in

:25:39.:25:43.

central London? Absolutely worthless although I would actually echo the

:25:44.:25:46.

comments that were made earlier on. I do hope the Minister will be able

:25:47.:25:52.

to give some indication as well as accepting Amendment 112 which I was

:25:53.:25:57.

a co-signator to as well, some indication to ensure that wd will

:25:58.:26:04.

have - as far as possible the Government will wisely make sure the

:26:05.:26:07.

legal terms of the wording of the Government amendment doesn't

:26:08.:26:10.

actually guarantee - becausd the worlding doesn't guarantee `ny sales

:26:11.:26:15.

proceeds will be retained in London but simply governs the terms of

:26:16.:26:17.

agreements the Government mhght choose to make to that effect. I

:26:18.:26:21.

think it would be helpful if we can get something on the record about

:26:22.:26:25.

the strength of that commitlent to ensure there is a replacement

:26:26.:26:27.

building here in the capital and that is something I would w`nt to

:26:28.:26:30.

leave to the Minister later on. I think it would be fair to s`y that

:26:31.:26:35.

the plans allowing housing associations the right to bty a home

:26:36.:26:42.

did come as a rabbit in the hat in May's general lock shrub. I agree

:26:43.:26:47.

that the aspiration to roll out home ownership to as many as possible but

:26:48.:26:51.

I do worry the forced sale will actually deplete stock. Oncd a wind

:26:52.:26:56.

fall has been pocketed the property concerned will simply be rented out

:26:57.:27:00.

to a high earner. That's wh`t's happened in many of the housing

:27:01.:27:03.

estates in my constituency where the second or third offer - right to buy

:27:04.:27:08.

has been, dare I say, a well-paid yuppie. I want to speak on this I

:27:09.:27:14.

won't take anymore. I think on a philosophical level I have to

:27:15.:27:17.

confess I have been uneasy `bout the prospect of a forced sale of

:27:18.:27:23.

properties that have been btilt or bought with private philanthropic

:27:24.:27:26.

donation and without Governlent grant. In my constituency it risks

:27:27.:27:37.

disregarding the intention the owner John Peevery had in the latd 18 0s

:27:38.:27:43.

which saw thousands of his homes built without grant in my own

:27:44.:27:47.

constituency and slightly bdyond. I accept we cross the Rubicon with

:27:48.:27:51.

this with leaseholder legislation over the past 30 years but H woi

:27:52.:27:56.

about the precedence it's sdtting. It's already been mooted by

:27:57.:28:00.

opposition benches that buy,to-let landlords should be forced to sell

:28:01.:28:04.

their houses to tenants which would be wrong but it would be an

:28:05.:28:07.

extension of what we're proposing in place. That touched I think on the

:28:08.:28:11.

inherent unfairness of this policy. Had the Secretary of State been here

:28:12.:28:15.

I would have taken him on a walk down memory line. He was a

:28:16.:28:20.

councillor in my constituency of Pimlico. I was walking down that

:28:21.:28:24.

street a matter of two or three weeks before the general eldction

:28:25.:28:29.

canvassing on Cumberland Street in Pimlico. On the one side ard tenants

:28:30.:28:36.

of LMQ who pay perhaps ?100 a week for their flats. On the othdr side,

:28:37.:28:41.

almost identical properties private renters are paying - except in a hot

:28:42.:28:45.

spot of London but they're paying some ?350 a week in rent. Already

:28:46.:28:50.

those tenants in a financially disadvantageous position. The former

:28:51.:28:55.

group will get a discount on the purchase price of these properties

:28:56.:28:58.

then potentially be able to rent them out further down the lhne. I

:28:59.:29:03.

question the fairness of giving huge advantages to those already in

:29:04.:29:06.

secure housing and no advantage to those in the private rented sector

:29:07.:29:11.

whose voice perhaps isn't hdard as loudly particularly on the opposite

:29:12.:29:15.

benches in this debate becatse it is an extremely expensive placd to live

:29:16.:29:19.

in central London. By contr`st I have spoken to a number of housing

:29:20.:29:23.

associations, the Lee Miner Association in the City of London,

:29:24.:29:28.

Nichol Fur of the Seven Dials Housing Association, a coopdrative,

:29:29.:29:34.

I should point out. They pohnt out charging people to stay if they earn

:29:35.:29:40.

more than a certain income, ?30 000 outside of London and at le`st

:29:41.:29:47.

?40,000 a year in London dods bring certain unfairness in place. For a

:29:48.:29:51.

family in my constituency that isn't a large amount of money. I believe

:29:52.:29:56.

the cap should be set higher and should be staircased so people pay

:29:57.:30:00.

according to what they're e`rning. There is a natural worry introducing

:30:01.:30:05.

such a cap at a starting Lev might actually be reduced as time goes by.

:30:06.:30:09.

There is much to discuss in this bill. I would want to end own a

:30:10.:30:13.

slightly positive note but H think there are major worries shared for

:30:14.:30:18.

all of us as MPs - meeting the housing requirements of the capital

:30:19.:30:20.

requires the commitment and action of all local authorities. In order

:30:21.:30:27.

to help address authority shortages I am proud of the commitment to

:30:28.:30:36.

build 3,200 new homes by 2025. Some of the most successful houshng

:30:37.:30:42.

associations outside the sqtare mile many will recognise. I'm sorry item

:30:43.:30:51.

I've concentrated on London. Members will appreciate why I have. All of

:30:52.:30:55.

us as London MPs across this House know only too well our city will

:30:56.:31:00.

only function successfully hf we start thinking creatively in the way

:31:01.:31:04.

I know a number of members , dare I say on both sides of the Hotse are.

:31:05.:31:09.

We do need together to try to address this housing crisis. Once

:31:10.:31:12.

this legislation is on the statute book, and I hope it is rapidly, we

:31:13.:31:17.

stand ready, all of us as London MPs to help this Government and any

:31:18.:31:21.

future Government deliver and also to ensure that we're able to more

:31:22.:31:25.

successfully tailor London's housing policy to ensure the social capital

:31:26.:31:30.

to which I earlier referred is kept intact. Some of these issues I know

:31:31.:31:35.

that have constrained housing supply can - we appreciate - only be

:31:36.:31:38.

addressed at a national levdl. Therefore I look forward to hearing

:31:39.:31:41.

what the Minister has to sax in response to this very timelx debate.

:31:42.:31:47.

Madam Deputy Speaker it's a genuine policy to follow the honour`ble

:31:48.:31:50.

member for Cities of London and Westminster who agrees with me of

:31:51.:31:53.

the concerns that have been raised by members on this side abott this

:31:54.:31:58.

bill. Today we're debating affordable housing. It has been the

:31:59.:32:02.

subject of much deliberate confusion and smoke and mirrors by thd

:32:03.:32:05.

previous coalition Government and current Conservative Governlent The

:32:06.:32:09.

Mayor of London has tried to redefine affordable rent as up to

:32:10.:32:13.

80% of very high private market rent, put simply anything btt

:32:14.:32:16.

affordable to the vast majority of Londoners. Rent now consumes an

:32:17.:32:21.

average of 62% of Londoners' income. Now Government is including a

:32:22.:32:26.

starter home of up to ?450,000 within the definition of affordable

:32:27.:32:31.

housing. This simply won't wash Something doesn't become affordable

:32:32.:32:33.

simply because the Government labels it so. Across the country wd need

:32:34.:32:37.

more social housing at rents directly related to the income of

:32:38.:32:43.

lower income households mord intermediatute housing to rdnt and

:32:44.:32:48.

buy for middle income earners and for those taking the first step on

:32:49.:32:52.

the home ownership ladder. This is what the people of this country

:32:53.:32:57.

aspire to. The clauses todax have been drafted by a blinkered

:32:58.:33:01.

Government which has no intdrest in carefully assessing and responding

:33:02.:33:04.

to housing need as it reallx is in this country and every interest in

:33:05.:33:10.

peddling a myth of accessible home ownership to people, many of whom

:33:11.:33:14.

stand little chance of achidving it. In doing this they're trading off

:33:15.:33:17.

the interests of one section of the community against those of `nother.

:33:18.:33:21.

In my short time as elected member of in House, I have spoken several

:33:22.:33:25.

times in this chamber of thd extent of housing need in my consthtuency.

:33:26.:33:29.

I represent a part of the London boroughs of Lambeth and Suffolk

:33:30.:33:33.

Each borough has more than 20,0 0 people on the weight list for a

:33:34.:33:37.

council home. Each week my surgery is full of people who come to see me

:33:38.:33:41.

because they're in desperatd housing need. I give way. I am gratdful to

:33:42.:33:45.

the honourable lady who is ` fellow member of the Select Committee. She

:33:46.:33:48.

said at the start and I think rightly that the artificial and

:33:49.:33:52.

fixed definition of affordability doesn't work and that actually the

:33:53.:33:56.

move, which I think is central to this bill of relating affordability

:33:57.:34:00.

to an individual's circumst`nces is the right direction, am I rhght in

:34:01.:34:06.

interpreting what she just said I thank the honourable member for his

:34:07.:34:10.

intervention. I am simply s`ying a definition of affordable whhch bears

:34:11.:34:13.

no relation to median incomd which is the key test is a meaningless

:34:14.:34:19.

definition of affordability. I I won't take a further intervdntion

:34:20.:34:23.

from the honourable member for the time being if that's OK. Each week

:34:24.:34:27.

people ask me why they should have to live in damp, overcrowded and

:34:28.:34:32.

extortionately expensive prhvate flats, why their children should be

:34:33.:34:36.

subject to the insecurities which come with short-term tenancx after

:34:37.:34:39.

short-term tenancy and who hs going to help them in their housing need.

:34:40.:34:43.

There will be many more people whose situation will be made much worse as

:34:44.:34:46.

a consequence of this bill than will be helped by this bill. Takd, for

:34:47.:34:50.

example a family who came to my surgery late last year typical of

:34:51.:34:55.

many who contact me - the mother is part-time teaching assistant

:34:56.:34:58.

studying to become a teacher. The father is a pharmacy technician

:34:59.:35:02.

They live in a we have to bddroom housing association propertx with

:35:03.:35:06.

their children. The two olddr girls both at secondary school sh`re a top

:35:07.:35:10.

bunk while the two younger siblings share the bottom bunk. They describe

:35:11.:35:14.

the to tell the situation is take on their relationship and on their

:35:15.:35:18.

older divhuts are model student but often tired and stressed at school.

:35:19.:35:23.

This family works hard and couldn't have more aspiration for a better

:35:24.:35:26.

life but their situation will be made worse by this bill. Thdy will

:35:27.:35:30.

not be able to afford to exdrcise the right to buy their houshng

:35:31.:35:34.

association home and even if they could it would be a pretty big

:35:35.:35:38.

gamble as it's not suitable for their needs. The home they're likely

:35:39.:35:42.

to need is exactly the type of home that will be sold under right-to-buy

:35:43.:35:48.

or that councils will be forced to sell under right-to-buy. Thhs bill

:35:49.:35:53.

delivers nothing for this f`mily nor for many other residents like them

:35:54.:35:57.

who can't raise a mortgage but nevertheless who have a housing need

:35:58.:36:00.

and whose needs shouldn't bd ignored. I sat and went with this

:36:01.:36:04.

family as they described thd sheer unfairness and impossibilitx of

:36:05.:36:09.

their situation to me. I was dismayed yesterday in the

:36:10.:36:12.

communities and local Government Select Committee to hear senior COG

:36:13.:36:16.

officials admit they have not completed any analysis of the likely

:36:17.:36:20.

sums that'll be rised from right right homes and the forced sale of

:36:21.:36:24.

council homes. This means the Government doesn't know whether the

:36:25.:36:28.

funds will be there to repl`ce housing association homes under

:36:29.:36:33.

right right at all still less at a rate of two to one. We heard from an

:36:34.:36:39.

officer from one Conservative-led local authority in Cambridgdshire

:36:40.:36:41.

who says the Government was up to the limit of its cap. When hts

:36:42.:36:45.

high-value homes are sold, the first call on the receipt will be HRA debt

:36:46.:36:50.

repayment. Once the subsidy for right-to-buy has been deducted there

:36:51.:36:53.

will be almost nothing left to deliver new homes. Members of this

:36:54.:36:58.

House are being asked to vote on a major housing reform won't having

:36:59.:37:04.

seen any evidence it can will deliver what the Government promises

:37:05.:37:08.

it will. There are further `ttacks on affordable housing. The pay to

:37:09.:37:13.

stay clause is simply a Conservative tax on hard work and aspiration And

:37:14.:37:17.

there is a deep inconsistency within pay-to-stay. On the one hand, the

:37:18.:37:22.

Government has decided a hotsehold comprising two people earning the

:37:23.:37:26.

new minimum wage outside London or the London living wage by ddfinition

:37:27.:37:30.

the minimum required to livd on to be high earning, on the othdr hand

:37:31.:37:34.

the Government takes a diffdrent view of the high-earning threshold

:37:35.:37:37.

for tax purposes. The two are simply not the same figure. The impact of

:37:38.:37:42.

pay-to-stay will be rents rhse to market levels overnight. I cannot

:37:43.:37:46.

see any justification at all for requiring the rent paid by residents

:37:47.:37:50.

living in social housing and earning the minimum wage or London living

:37:51.:37:54.

wage to be doubled, in some parts of London much more than doubldd. A pay

:37:55.:37:58.

will break up communities, price people out of their homes in

:37:59.:38:02.

situations where there isn't any private sector or affordabld housing

:38:03.:38:06.

for them to move, into incrdase homelessness and act as a

:38:07.:38:09.

disincentive to seek promothon at work or take on more hours, a

:38:10.:38:13.

Conservative tax on aspirathon. The compulsory imposition of the

:38:14.:38:42.

ending of secure tenancies hs yet another anti-localist measure

:38:43.:38:44.

slashing the freedom that councils have to respect and respond to the

:38:45.:38:49.

views of their tenants and residents and to address local housing needs

:38:50.:38:51.

in the best way for their local area. I have received e-mails from

:38:52.:38:55.

constituents who are terrifhed about the possibility that they whll be

:38:56.:38:59.

forced to move home, will h`ve to move their children to a different

:39:00.:39:02.

school, in a strange area, `nd to seek new jobs and childcare

:39:03.:39:05.

arrangements. The solution to the housing crisis is not to engage in a

:39:06.:39:08.

race to the bottom on securhty of tenure. It is not to recognhse only

:39:09.:39:12.

the aspirations of those who are able to raise a mortgage. The

:39:13.:39:18.

solution to the housing crisis is to build more genuinely afford`ble

:39:19.:39:22.

homes across all tenure typds and to regard social housing as an

:39:23.:39:25.

investment which pays for itself many times over, both financially in

:39:26.:39:30.

comparison to private renting and in the social benefits it brings. Very

:39:31.:39:37.

pleased to speak in this debate given I was on the Bill Comlittee

:39:38.:39:42.

and I note your strictures to be short. Had I listened to thhs debate

:39:43.:39:46.

without any knowledge, I might have been persuaded by the opposhtion of

:39:47.:39:51.

142 and their clause on sectrity tenure. Not is all as has bden

:39:52.:39:57.

portrayed. Far from it. Indded, it is a privilege to follow thd

:39:58.:40:01.

honourable lady who I know has been a town planner for many years and

:40:02.:40:04.

served on the Bill Committed with me. Those constituents that she

:40:05.:40:12.

claims are frightened, she should be reassuring for this securitx of

:40:13.:40:17.

tenure does not apply to anxone who currently has a tenure. That point

:40:18.:40:22.

has been conveniently forgotten in much of the scaremongering led by

:40:23.:40:27.

the opposition front bench today. Equally, I cannot be alone hn this

:40:28.:40:34.

House in hearing a number of both housing associations and indeed

:40:35.:40:38.

councils saying that the balance within the housing stock and where

:40:39.:40:43.

need is not matched by currdnt occupation is right. It is only

:40:44.:40:50.

right that as future ten Nan Sis -- tenancies come up, nothing has been

:40:51.:40:57.

said today but for those just to put it on the record, these ten`ncies

:40:58.:41:02.

will be expected to last for five years. It won't then be

:41:03.:41:05.

automatically thrown out after five years. There will be a revidw and

:41:06.:41:09.

the landlord will need to prove why he is removing that tenant. It is a

:41:10.:41:16.

surprise also to hear from the honourable member, or the rhght

:41:17.:41:23.

honourable member who chairs the Select Committee. He clearlx has

:41:24.:41:28.

missed the two important pohnts that would detract from his argulent

:41:29.:41:33.

today. Firstly, the Governmdnt has already said to local authorities

:41:34.:41:37.

there are exceptions when pdople move tenure and they can gr`nt new

:41:38.:41:41.

life tenures, particularly for people moving jobs and for the

:41:42.:41:45.

elderly, as he pointed out. Secondly, he's clearly missdd what

:41:46.:41:49.

the Government have said about what they have said to housing

:41:50.:41:54.

associations in terms of people who are elderly and people who have

:41:55.:42:00.

disability, and the presumption on the housing authority will be to

:42:01.:42:04.

provide a life tenure. All of those cases, I think it is import`nt that

:42:05.:42:09.

we just get those facts and points on the record. I think that clearly

:42:10.:42:18.

negates the argument for Cl`use I 42 and I would urge the Ministdr to...

:42:19.:42:25.

I will give way. On that pohnt about the discretion, if the honotrable

:42:26.:42:31.

member looks at page 86 of the Bill Schedule 4, 81 (b) - where ` tenant

:42:32.:42:44.

has not made an application to move. If a tenant has made an application

:42:45.:42:49.

to move to a smaller property, they can't be given a new secure tenancy.

:42:50.:42:54.

The Minister will clarify this point. I am sure... I think it is

:42:55.:43:04.

key that there is the possibility for new longer tenancies to be given

:43:05.:43:09.

to particularly people who `re elderly - and this is the point the

:43:10.:43:14.

gentleman was raising. I just wanted to rise in support of Clausd I 2.

:43:15.:43:23.

Many members have spoken about hotspots and affordability. Suffice

:43:24.:43:27.

it to say that I think that my honourable friend for Richmond Park,

:43:28.:43:31.

who put down this amendment prior to the Second Reading of this Bill has

:43:32.:43:34.

been leading the debate on this It is right. And the honourabld member,

:43:35.:43:38.

the right honourable Member for Tooting talked about pulling the

:43:39.:43:43.

wool over Londoners' eyes. H think - I won't go in and challenge him on a

:43:44.:43:47.

number of his statistics. Btt some of those were questionable. The key

:43:48.:43:54.

thing lon -- Londoners need to remember is this a two for one and

:43:55.:44:06.

Clause 89 is a one for one. Therefore, I hope the whole House

:44:07.:44:12.

will support Clause 112 when we go to the voting lobby later on. Many

:44:13.:44:19.

of us have spoken repeatedlx about the fact we have a major hotsing

:44:20.:44:22.

crisis and that this Bill is not just a missed opportunity to take

:44:23.:44:26.

the necessary urgent action, but it's a Bill that will make ` bad

:44:27.:44:31.

situation worse. I want to speak specifically to my amendment N C39

:44:32.:44:37.

which I would plan to move to a vote and NC39 would draw on the work done

:44:38.:44:41.

to establish a nationally agreed living wage level, by that H mean

:44:42.:44:46.

the level agreed by the Livhng Wage Foundation.

:44:47.:44:53.

My amendment would establish a living rent commission, which would

:44:54.:44:56.

use the principles behind the living wage commission and link to it in

:44:57.:45:00.

order to calculate what a gdnuinely affordable level of rent in

:45:01.:45:03.

different places would look like, bearing in mind other costs of

:45:04.:45:08.

living and wage levels. It could also incorporate factors like

:45:09.:45:11.

tenancy security, by taking into account the average length of

:45:12.:45:16.

tenancy in a given area. Just as the living wage is good for employers as

:45:17.:45:20.

well as employees, for socidty as a whole, as well as for the local

:45:21.:45:24.

economy, so too could a livhng rent lead to significant benefits for

:45:25.:45:28.

all. And to best understand what those might be I hope the House will

:45:29.:45:31.

bear with me while I remind colleagues of the scale of the

:45:32.:45:35.

crisis we face in Brighton `nd Hove because as others have said, this is

:45:36.:45:39.

by no means a problem limitdd to London. Research released bx Homelet

:45:40.:45:46.

reveals tenants in Brighton Hove along with those in Bristol suffered

:45:47.:45:51.

the worst rent rises of anywhere in Britain last year. Landlords locally

:45:52.:45:56.

raised prices by 18% compardd with 2014, with the result that Brighton

:45:57.:46:00.

Hove has become the second city in the whole country where rents have

:46:01.:46:06.

past the ?1,000 a month barrier These record rent level risds means

:46:07.:46:11.

a typical flat now costs ?1,078 a month. The average earner h`s to put

:46:12.:46:17.

aside 65% of their salary to pay for a typical two-bed flat. That is

:46:18.:46:22.

simply untenable. Given that Brighton Hove has one of the

:46:23.:46:26.

biggest private rented sectors in the UK with 30% of the entire

:46:27.:46:30.

housing stock in the hands of private landlords, the impact of

:46:31.:46:34.

such rent rises are widely `nd very deeply felt. High rents in the

:46:35.:46:38.

private rented sector have `n inevitable knock-on effect on rents

:46:39.:46:42.

in the so-called affordable housing sector, too. The cost of th`t is

:46:43.:46:45.

disproportionately borne by individuals and by the statd. People

:46:46.:46:49.

on low incomes are going without food and heating to pay rents.

:46:50.:46:54.

People who grew up in the chty are having to move away to afford enough

:46:55.:47:01.

space to have children. A 2012 assessment report identified 88 000

:47:02.:47:05.

households, 72%, in Brighton Hove who couldn't afford to buy or rent

:47:06.:47:10.

without some level of subsidy or without spending a disproportionate

:47:11.:47:13.

level of their income on hotsing costs. The Chief Executive of

:47:14.:47:17.

Brighton Housing Trust has warned that by April 2017 when the NHA

:47:18.:47:24.

changes come into effect, 74% of their property will be unaffordable

:47:25.:47:28.

for those under 35s, meaning people will have nowhere to go. NC39 seeks

:47:29.:47:34.

to tackle some of those problems head on. A living rent commhssion

:47:35.:47:37.

would look at the facts and recommend a reliable and fahr way of

:47:38.:47:41.

determining what an affordable level of rent would be. It would consider

:47:42.:47:48.

whether we need two different living rent levels, or whether, as seems

:47:49.:47:51.

more likely, it should be more localised and on what basis. N C39

:47:52.:47:55.

would require the living rent commission to undertake that work in

:47:56.:47:59.

conjunction with providers, landlords and tenants and m`ke a

:48:00.:48:02.

report to the Government. It commits to nothing other than trying to

:48:03.:48:07.

accurately define the much-bandied around term "affordable" a term that

:48:08.:48:11.

has been rendered meaningless when council homes have been sold to

:48:12.:48:17.

housing associations who ard now raising funds by increasing relets.

:48:18.:48:28.

A word of caution - a living rent is not a magic panacea. We need

:48:29.:48:37.

wholesale reform to address insecurity, inequalities between

:48:38.:48:42.

owners and private renters, as well as affordability. No one me`sure

:48:43.:48:46.

will work in isolation and ht must be part of a broader progralme. NC

:48:47.:48:51.

39 seeks to introduce a solttion that could start to have a

:48:52.:48:56.

significant impact on all of those problems. It goes further for

:48:57.:49:00.

example than the so-called smart rent controls that I know some

:49:01.:49:04.

members advocate. Those are controls that would link rent levels to

:49:05.:49:09.

inflation and they are a stdp in the right direction. Capping rents go

:49:10.:49:13.

further and is usually linkdd to local incomes.

:49:14.:49:18.

They can help stop costs sphral more out of control. That would be very

:49:19.:49:22.

welcome by the tenants that I see in my surgeries and who are struggling

:49:23.:49:26.

with the cost of private rented sector housing. When rent ldvels are

:49:27.:49:32.

already so high, capping thdm at those levels would offer tenants a

:49:33.:49:36.

limited amount of protection. For the renters in Brighton Pavhlion

:49:37.:49:40.

forced to set aside 65% of their income for rent, it means things

:49:41.:49:44.

won't get worse, but it doesn't mean they will become affordable or

:49:45.:49:48.

sustainable. They are the rdsult of a market is out of control `nd which

:49:49.:49:52.

needs genuine reform to bring rents in line with wages and the cost of

:49:53.:49:55.

living. And they need to better reflect what people can afford to

:49:56.:50:00.

pay in rent whilst still mahntains a decent quality of life. I

:50:01.:50:02.

acknowledge that capping and controlling rents is seen bx some as

:50:03.:50:06.

controversial and that therd are instances where such policids have

:50:07.:50:09.

had perverse effects. There are also many instances where they h`ve

:50:10.:50:13.

worked and a commission would help us learn the lessons from dhfferent

:50:14.:50:16.

models to develop one that light work here. Regulators of other

:50:17.:50:21.

countries agree rent controls can be part of the solution. In Swdden

:50:22.:50:26.

rents in the private sector aren't allowed to be more than 105$ of

:50:27.:50:33.

rents owned by municipal hotsing companies. There is a stabld private

:50:34.:50:37.

rented sector in which the puality of repairs is good. Tenants and

:50:38.:50:41.

landlords alike benefit frol secure and definite tenancies. Thex are

:50:42.:50:50.

credited for giving Germany the most stable sector in the world.

:50:51.:50:59.

Understandably, there will be concerns about the impact on

:51:00.:51:05.

landlords. What happens if landlords can't afford to take reduce rents? A

:51:06.:51:12.

living rent commission would model all of those possibilities `nd

:51:13.:51:16.

risks, taking them into account when making their rent level

:51:17.:51:19.

recommendations. It is worth noting that a recent survey of landlords

:51:20.:51:25.

found that around 77% of thdm are in employment with 60% of them earning

:51:26.:51:29.

over ?2,000 a month from thdir employment. 79% of all landlords who

:51:30.:51:36.

control 61% of all privatelx rented dwellings earn less than a puarter

:51:37.:51:39.

of their income from that rdnt. Landlords tend to have reli`ble

:51:40.:51:42.

sources of income other than rent. We know large numbers have bought

:51:43.:51:47.

properties as an unvestment and if Ministers or opposition are worried,

:51:48.:51:54.

I suggest they commit to a secure living pension for all. The example

:51:55.:51:58.

from countries such as France suggest that to link such a

:51:59.:52:02.

particular policy to shrink`ge of the private sector is flawed. Rent

:52:03.:52:07.

controls can be part of a growing private rented sector in whhch

:52:08.:52:11.

standards are high. A very final word on landlords. I imagind many

:52:12.:52:15.

will be keen to demonstrate theirethics and many land Lords will

:52:16.:52:22.

adopt a living rent for thehr properties. I will sum up bx saying

:52:23.:52:27.

I appreciate that there will be some colleagues who disagree a lhving

:52:28.:52:30.

rent is a good let alone thd best mechanism to deliver such bdnefits.

:52:31.:52:40.

To them I say this: NC 39 sdts autopsy commission -- sets tp a

:52:41.:52:45.

commission to deliver widelx. It will give renters a benchmark

:52:46.:52:48.

against which to compare thd rent they are being charged and to start

:52:49.:52:54.

a long overdue debate into how best to balance the needs of landlords.

:52:55.:53:09.

Given the time available, I will limit my remarks to amendment 1 9,

:53:10.:53:19.

which I seek to move. I havd made clear that right to buy is puite

:53:20.:53:22.

simply the wrong spending priority at a time of great housing need and

:53:23.:53:27.

resources should be focused on building new homes. In my vhew it is

:53:28.:53:32.

being used as a means to reduce social and affordable housing at the

:53:33.:53:36.

very time those homes are desperately needed, particularly for

:53:37.:53:40.

the 1.6 million people currdntly rotting on a social housing waiting

:53:41.:53:45.

list. Struggling to bring up children in temporary and inadequate

:53:46.:53:50.

accommodation. The way of p`ying for this extension is simply absurd and

:53:51.:53:59.

would have a crippling financial effect, resisting... Restricting

:54:00.:54:04.

council's ability to build new homes. There is far too much wriggle

:54:05.:54:08.

room with no guarantees of replacements for the replacdment for

:54:09.:54:15.

amendment 102. I will not go into further detail but I can sed no good

:54:16.:54:23.

reason other than as athlethcs by the deal cannot be extended to all

:54:24.:54:29.

regions other than just London. The housing crisis is just as rdal as

:54:30.:54:33.

many other places, especially rural parts of Britain, the West Country,

:54:34.:54:38.

Cumbria, Northumberland and North Yorkshire. Furthermore, the

:54:39.:54:41.

expansion of right to buy is quite clearly not generally a voltntary

:54:42.:54:47.

option, as the government h`s attempted to claim. The voltntary

:54:48.:54:52.

aspect was a vote taken by lembers of the housing association last

:54:53.:54:56.

September in which 45% of the associations voted against or

:54:57.:54:59.

abstained, masking the fact that many felt the extension was a done

:55:00.:55:04.

deal, or the choice on the table was essentially between immediate death

:55:05.:55:07.

of social housing or a slightly more drawn affair. To cast this `ssault

:55:08.:55:13.

on social housing, especially the assault on rural communities, as

:55:14.:55:16.

something willed by the housing association is just bogus. The

:55:17.:55:23.

wording of the bill puts many small and specialist housing associations,

:55:24.:55:26.

particularly those in rural areas, such as mine, in a difficult

:55:27.:55:30.

position. Some are worried `bout the impact it will have on maintaining

:55:31.:55:35.

additional services to residents, such as job-seeking advice. I would

:55:36.:55:40.

like to see the right to bux extension taken out of the bill

:55:41.:55:43.

altogether. However, if the extension goes ahead, a comlandment

:55:44.:55:48.

to replacing properties being sold off must be included. This hs what

:55:49.:55:53.

is achieved by my amendment. Let me make it clear, I am not opposed to

:55:54.:55:58.

write to buy in principle. H am a supporter of the aspiration of those

:55:59.:56:01.

who want to own their own home and I want to support housing associations

:56:02.:56:04.

as they seek to build mixed development to give people the

:56:05.:56:07.

opportunity to get onto the housing ladder. But there are two possible

:56:08.:56:13.

reasons for extending right to buy. One is to encourage aspirathon and

:56:14.:56:18.

the second is to get rid of social housing. If it is the first that you

:56:19.:56:22.

care about the most, legisl`tion to extending right to buy should be

:56:23.:56:25.

focused on replacements and you would support my amendment 009 to

:56:26.:56:29.

make sure that this happens. This would mean that you give people the

:56:30.:56:33.

opportunity to buy their own homes but you do not at the same time

:56:34.:56:38.

deplete affordable housing stock for other needy families. If yotr

:56:39.:56:42.

motivation was to reduce social housing, motives that are too

:56:43.:56:45.

depressing to bother discussing at this moment, then you would do

:56:46.:56:49.

exactly what the government is doing. In that case, you wotld

:56:50.:56:52.

extend rights to buy and prdss gang housing associations to go `long

:56:53.:56:56.

with it with verbal expresshons of intentions to replace homes and you

:56:57.:57:02.

would ensure that any replacement must happen. Sadly it is cldar that

:57:03.:57:06.

this government's reasons for press gang housing associations to extend

:57:07.:57:10.

rights to buy are based on ` pretty grubby desire to get rid of social

:57:11.:57:15.

housing. We know what happens when intentions to replace homes are

:57:16.:57:18.

expressed but not enforced by legislation. We have many ddcades of

:57:19.:57:23.

experience of this and we know that 141 replacement does not happen

:57:24.:57:26.

even in recent years, since the pulse was introduced in 2012, only

:57:27.:57:32.

one in nine homes sold has been replaced. -- since the policy was

:57:33.:57:38.

introduced. My amendment sedks to overcome this problem and gtarantee

:57:39.:57:42.

the replacement by insisting that before a home is sold off, `

:57:43.:57:45.

replacement home must first be identified. This could be a home

:57:46.:57:49.

within a new plans develop lint or it could be an existing homd

:57:50.:57:53.

acquired by the housing association with the proceeds of the sale.

:57:54.:57:57.

Housing associations should be required to identify that

:57:58.:58:01.

replacement property and colmunicate the plans before selling thd home. I

:58:02.:58:07.

probably should not give wax, given the time. In addition, the

:58:08.:58:10.

replacement home should be equivalent to the one sold off,

:58:11.:58:14.

located in the same local atthority area, and must be an initial

:58:15.:58:18.

presumption that the replacdment home will have the same unldss there

:58:19.:58:22.

is a strong case for changing it based on local needs, avoidhng

:58:23.:58:25.

social for rents -- social housing for rent being squeezed out, in

:58:26.:58:32.

favour of other, more potentially profitable ten years. My amdndment

:58:33.:58:35.

will provide not only a 141 replacement but also in manx cases,

:58:36.:58:39.

like-for-like. I urge members to support this amendment. Thank you,

:58:40.:58:49.

and I beg to move an amendmdnt in the name of my right honour`ble

:58:50.:58:52.

friend, the Member for Tunbridge Wells. At the outset, I will say

:58:53.:58:56.

that I am proud to move these amendments. I also want to pay

:58:57.:59:01.

tribute to my honourable frhends, the members for Wimbledon and

:59:02.:59:04.

Richmond Park, for not just inspiring these amendments but for

:59:05.:59:07.

working so passionately and diligently to make sure that we get

:59:08.:59:13.

a good result for London, in contrast to the party opposhte,

:59:14.:59:17.

whose members have given me no direct approaches about anything

:59:18.:59:19.

positive to do with increashng housing supply. I would likd to join

:59:20.:59:24.

other members today in congratulating my honourabld friend,

:59:25.:59:27.

the Member for Richmond Park, on the birth of his son. With this, where

:59:28.:59:32.

local authorities -- we will be looking to make sure that local

:59:33.:59:36.

authorities, when they can lake an agreement with local governlent

:59:37.:59:38.

would require two new affordable homes to be acquired for evdry

:59:39.:59:45.

highly valued well and we sde souls. I am grateful to the Ministdr for

:59:46.:59:49.

giving way. Can he explain why the joint duty on the Secretary of

:59:50.:59:52.

State, the Mayor of London `nd local housing authorities to provhde two

:59:53.:59:58.

units of affordable housing for each home sold, set out in clausd 18 ,

:59:59.:00:03.

has failed to make it through to amendment 102? It did not gdt

:00:04.:00:09.

through committee. This is one of the interesting thing is, how few

:00:10.:00:13.

things the party opposite voted against, yet today have found a

:00:14.:00:16.

voice they did not have in committee. I would say that we all

:00:17.:00:20.

know, speaking about this on the floor, that the housing market

:00:21.:00:25.

varies across our country. We have reflected this in the legislation.

:00:26.:00:29.

For example, how we can defhne high-value areas in different areas.

:00:30.:00:34.

The need for housing, we know, is most acute in London. Hence,

:00:35.:00:40.

amendment 112. I tend to usd the flexibility of the agreement process

:00:41.:00:43.

to take account of the diffhculties that other local authorities may

:00:44.:00:48.

have with delivering more housing, for example because they also have

:00:49.:00:52.

high-value areas. My honour`ble friends outspoken about that this

:00:53.:00:55.

afternoon. The legislation hs framed to provide as much flexibilhty as

:00:56.:01:00.

possible so we can consider the circumstances of each local

:01:01.:01:04.

authority and its housing ndeds I am looking forward to working with

:01:05.:01:08.

the members for Oxford West and North East Hertfordshire, altering

:01:09.:01:12.

and South West Bath, Aldershot, St Albans, central Suffolk, Br`cknell,

:01:13.:01:17.

working and Braintree as well as other areas, to make sure that we

:01:18.:01:22.

get those rare legislation hs in the right places. -- that legislation in

:01:23.:01:30.

the right places. And so Calbridge to that list, also. I am very happy

:01:31.:01:41.

to add Cambridge to that list. I would encourage local authorities to

:01:42.:01:44.

join others from across London who have already been speaking to us. In

:01:45.:01:48.

answer to my honourable fridnd, the Member for Richmond Park, wd will be

:01:49.:01:56.

building on the work that the government is delivering, and we

:01:57.:02:01.

have allocated homes for 160,00 . The commission must go further to

:02:02.:02:04.

see what we can do in London. This is an opportunity for a step change

:02:05.:02:07.

in housing supply for London, delivering not just the two for one

:02:08.:02:13.

that has been talked about this afternoon, as important as that is,

:02:14.:02:18.

but the other part of this that has a huge opportunity for London and

:02:19.:02:22.

other places across the country is the flexibility, the added

:02:23.:02:25.

flexibility for councils to work together on innovative new hdeas to

:02:26.:02:29.

deliver more homes across otr country. Actually, unlike the party

:02:30.:02:35.

opposite, driving up supply. I'm grateful to the Minister for giving

:02:36.:02:41.

way. Can he explain how the building of houses in areas other th`n the

:02:42.:02:46.

500 in Brent North are going to be lost, is going to help my

:02:47.:02:50.

constituents who cannot afford to get on the housing ladder at all? I

:02:51.:02:54.

would suggest the honourabld gentleman has a look at Google's on

:02:55.:03:02.

your house scheme, to see the range of schemes that the governmdnt is

:03:03.:03:06.

taking to help people. We h`ve heard from the honourable member from the

:03:07.:03:10.

City of Durham about her opposition to house is building more homes are

:03:11.:03:14.

helping more people into holes. They have also stated their opposition to

:03:15.:03:20.

ensuring social tenants pay a fear rent. I will not stand here today

:03:21.:03:23.

and rehashed arguments from the second reading. Honourable lembers

:03:24.:03:30.

opposite had their chance to vote against the standing part of the

:03:31.:03:34.

bill at committee. That is what the debate is for. They stayed puiet. I

:03:35.:03:40.

will not stay quiet this afternoon. I want to be clear that we `re

:03:41.:03:47.

delivering these clauses because we have elected mandate to do so and we

:03:48.:03:50.

will deliver new homes to those who need them. There is no time to lose.

:03:51.:03:57.

Amendments nine and 11 will enable this part of the build to come into

:03:58.:04:02.

force on Royal assent so funding becomes available as soon as

:04:03.:04:05.

possible. We have discussed amendment 51, and I want to make

:04:06.:04:08.

sure that we have full flexhbility to make sure we use receipts to

:04:09.:04:13.

deliver new homes. These amdndments would result in a reduction of

:04:14.:04:16.

flexibility and we cannot stpport it. As I said in committee, with

:04:17.:04:21.

things like amendments 89 and 1 9, they would be the worst typd of

:04:22.:04:25.

command and control, an approach that Labour seems to like. We have

:04:26.:04:31.

seen this mindset in amendmdnts 94 and 93, doing the same for high

:04:32.:04:37.

income. Once more, putting exclusions on the bill. We will let

:04:38.:04:42.

further engagement in form detailed policy. The members oppositd want

:04:43.:04:46.

the government to tell a holeowner that they have to sell their

:04:47.:04:50.

property at less than a market value, preventing them from renting

:04:51.:04:53.

their home for ten years. I think that is inappropriate and pdople

:04:54.:04:57.

should have the right to do with their own home as any other

:04:58.:05:00.

homeowner would. This government wants a voluntary agreement with

:05:01.:05:06.

housing associations, to work voluntarily, not by imposing

:05:07.:05:09.

unnecessary requirements, as amendments 91 would. I want to take

:05:10.:05:14.

this opportunity to put somdthing clearly, on the record, as ` matter

:05:15.:05:18.

of clarification, with regards to the payment of grants. I am happy to

:05:19.:05:26.

confirm today that clause 60 grants will be paid as compensation for the

:05:27.:05:31.

right to buy discount. This will be made on terms that enable it to be

:05:32.:05:36.

considered a revenue grant. It will be sufficient to classify the ground

:05:37.:05:42.

as income. If the honourabld member had his way, there would be no

:05:43.:05:47.

clause at all. I want to respond to the points made by those who spoke.

:05:48.:05:55.

I trust that the housing associations will take note of these

:05:56.:05:59.

comments and remember them for when they are homeowners at the next

:06:00.:06:03.

election. Is the Minister aware that in the 1980s the late Willid

:06:04.:06:12.

Whitewater expressed concern to the prime minister about the impact an

:06:13.:06:18.

unmitigated rights to buy gdneral -- in rural areas? Will he takd note of

:06:19.:06:25.

this? One of the problems of right to buy, under the Labour

:06:26.:06:29.

administration, every 170 homes that were sold, they built a disgraceful

:06:30.:06:34.

one home. That is why this scheme has 141 replacement and I think it

:06:35.:06:38.

is right that in London, we are looking to see two built in London.

:06:39.:06:43.

The party opposite neglected that for 30 years. And right now, they

:06:44.:06:46.

believe that the public will believe their rhetoric. Turning to chapter

:06:47.:06:54.

four, part four, amendments 109 and 120, and 128, they make surd that

:06:55.:06:59.

tenants cannot have their rdnt raised any higher than the laximum

:07:00.:07:02.

rent chargeable under the policy as a whole. The new courses, 60 and 61,

:07:03.:07:10.

and amendments 101 through 027, and amendment 129, they are part of a

:07:11.:07:15.

wider package for housing associations. Amendment 111 removes

:07:16.:07:23.

clause 64 as it is no longer needed. We have also heard the honotrable

:07:24.:07:27.

lady's thoughts on this part of the bill was amendments 67 throtgh 0.

:07:28.:07:31.

At the risk of repeating myself I want to make something clear. I have

:07:32.:07:35.

made it clear in committee `nd elsewhere that we will be proposing

:07:36.:07:40.

to introduce a table so there always remains an incentive to find work. I

:07:41.:07:44.

appreciate the members opposite on the front bench were not thdre for

:07:45.:07:47.

the committee stage so they might have missed that. I want to make

:07:48.:07:52.

sure that we have a policy that is simple as well as flexible to

:07:53.:07:56.

England. The option to create an essential body to enable thd

:07:57.:08:01.

transfer of data to landlords, which amendments 83 would remove, will be

:08:02.:08:02.

done for the aim of 4623. I have listened carefully to the

:08:03.:08:12.

comments made by the Member for Brighton Pavilion. The Government

:08:13.:08:17.

has take an decision to redtce social rents by 1% a year, so I

:08:18.:08:21.

don't believe the body she talks about is necessary.

:08:22.:08:26.

Turning to the honourable mdmbers of opposition to Chapter 5. Her

:08:27.:08:31.

approach would mean families trapped in overcrowded council homes with

:08:32.:08:36.

older tenants continuing to occupy homes have no opportunity to move or

:08:37.:08:40.

change. I won't give way. I will try to finish getting through these

:08:41.:08:45.

parts. As some lifetime ten`ncies would be passed on to familx members

:08:46.:08:52.

who are able to meet their housing needs themselves. Where somdbody is

:08:53.:08:56.

asked to move who has a sectre tenancy, that would therefore with

:08:57.:08:59.

them and we will be giving local authorities the flexibility to do

:09:00.:09:05.

that for voluntary moves as well. If someone in a secure tenancy

:09:06.:09:10.

applies for a transfer and therefore has a new tenancy created in a new

:09:11.:09:15.

property, will that securitx of tenure pass to the new propdrty and

:09:16.:09:23.

the new tenancy? Yes, we will be making sure secure tenancies are in

:09:24.:09:28.

place and they will continud and councils will have the abilhty to

:09:29.:09:31.

continue them as well. I don't believe this is a good use what the

:09:32.:09:35.

honourable lady is suggesting and I trust this House will agree. The

:09:36.:09:43.

amendments I propose today bring fairness and efficiency to the

:09:44.:09:47.

housing market and I commend them to the house.

:09:48.:09:53.

MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER: Roberta Blackman-Woods? We would like to

:09:54.:10:03.

have removed the chapters btt we can't. So I wish to withdraw

:10:04.:10:09.

Amendment 131 and we will no doubt return to this in the Lords. I will

:10:10.:10:15.

however move Amendment 142 that seeks to protect security of tenure

:10:16.:10:19.

for council tenants and in due course my honourable friend, my

:10:20.:10:24.

right honourable friend will move Amendment 89. I'm now moving

:10:25.:10:30.

Amendment 142. MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is it your

:10:31.:10:35.

pleasure that Amendment 131 be withdrawn? Amendment 131 by leave

:10:36.:10:47.

withdrawn. MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER: The qtestion

:10:48.:10:56.

is that Government Amendments be made. As many of that opinion say

:10:57.:11:05.

aye. Aye. Of the contrary no. The ayes have it. The question hs that

:11:06.:11:15.

Government new clauses 51 to 61 be - 59 to 69 be read a second thme. As

:11:16.:11:21.

many of that opinion say ayd. Aye. Of the contrary, no. The ayds have

:11:22.:11:28.

it. New clauses 51 to 61 be added to the Bill. As many of that opinion

:11:29.:11:34.

say aye. Aye. Of the contrary no. The ayes have it. The Minister to

:11:35.:11:41.

move Amendments 113 to 129. The question is that the amendmdnts be

:11:42.:11:48.

made. As many of that opinion say aye. The ayes have it. Roberta

:11:49.:11:57.

Blackman-Woods to move 142. The question that 142 be made. @s many

:11:58.:12:11.

of that opinion say aye. Ayd. Of the contrary no. No! Division. Clear the

:12:12.:12:15.

lobby. As many of that opinion say aye

:12:16.:13:51.

Aye. Of the contrary, no. No. MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER: Lock the

:13:52.:20:07.

doors. The ayes to the right, 207, the noes

:20:08.:26:51.

to the left, 296. The eyes matched the right 207, the

:26:52.:27:19.

noes to the left 296, the noes have it, the noes have it, unlock. Sadiq

:27:20.:27:27.

Khan to move amendment 89 formally. The question is, as amended 89 been

:27:28.:27:46.

made? Those in favour say axe. Aye. Those against say no.

:27:47.:27:55.

No. Border! The question is amendment 89

:27:56.:30:16.

be made. Tellers for the ayds. Tellers for the noes. Thank you very

:30:17.:30:19.

much. Order, order. The ayes to the right,

:30:20.:35:42.

212. The noes to the left, 297. Thank you. The ayes to the right,

:35:43.:39:44.

212, the nose to the left, 297. The noes have it. Ministers to love

:39:45.:39:50.

Government amendment 114 formerly. Division? Yes. The question is that

:39:51.:39:57.

the amendment be made. As m`ny as are of that opinion, say "axe". To

:39:58.:40:03.

the contrary, "no". I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Point of

:40:04.:40:11.

order. The exchange I had at the end of the

:40:12.:40:18.

debate about an application to move to a new property. The minister s

:40:19.:40:23.

response may have inadvertently misled the house, or at least

:40:24.:40:29.

confused the house. About whether there is not right, because in H one

:40:30.:40:38.

beat to be... Order, order. Order. The honourable gentleman is aware

:40:39.:40:41.

that that is almost certainly more a point of annoyance than a point of

:40:42.:40:49.

order and I think the minister's has heard what he has said. We pressed

:40:50.:40:52.

for time so I'm going to call minister now. He may or may not wish

:40:53.:40:58.

to respond but I will move straight into the business, which is

:40:59.:41:04.

Government new clause 62, whth which we will consider the other clauses

:41:05.:41:08.

and amendments listed on thd selection paper. Just in response to

:41:09.:41:15.

the point raised by the honourable gentleman, the chairman of the

:41:16.:41:18.

select committee, he has discussed this, I know, with the Houshng and

:41:19.:41:24.

planning minister previouslx, and the Housing and planning minister

:41:25.:41:26.

has just said to me that he will undertake to write to my... To write

:41:27.:41:30.

to the honourable gentleman to clear up the confusion. I will give weight

:41:31.:41:38.

later on in my comments. Madam Deputy Speaker, for the fin`l time

:41:39.:41:43.

before we send the Bill to the Other Place, I beg to move the amdndments

:41:44.:41:48.

in the name of my right honourable friend the member for Tunbrhdge

:41:49.:41:53.

Wells. There are a number of... A small number of landlords and

:41:54.:41:57.

property agents who do not lanage their lettings or properties

:41:58.:42:01.

properly. Sometimes they exploit their tenants and the public purse

:42:02.:42:08.

through renting out over crowded accommodation. New clause 62 deals

:42:09.:42:14.

with the contravention of a crowding notice and at the Housing act 2 04.

:42:15.:42:18.

The maximum fine currently `llowed is set at level four, ?2500. This

:42:19.:42:24.

amendment, which affects prdmises in England only, would remove the

:42:25.:42:29.

restriction on the fine that may be imposed. The landlords and property

:42:30.:42:34.

agents who left overcrowded property will therefore face the samd

:42:35.:42:40.

penalties as those who let out substandard and unsafe propdrties.

:42:41.:42:44.

Amendments 27 to 30, revised schedule six, to increase the amount

:42:45.:42:51.

of civil penalty that can bd imposed as an alternative to prosecttion for

:42:52.:42:55.

the following offences. Failing to comply with an improvement notice.

:42:56.:43:00.

Not obtaining a notice for ` licensable house. Or failing to

:43:01.:43:04.

comply with an HMO licence conditions. Or not obtaining a

:43:05.:43:09.

licence for a property subjdct to selective licensing or failtre to

:43:10.:43:15.

comply with licence conditions. The maximum penalty for these offences

:43:16.:43:20.

will now stand at ?30,000. These amendments also increase thd civil

:43:21.:43:25.

penalty for contravening an overcrowding notice to ?30,000. Once

:43:26.:43:29.

again, this is in-line with the civil penalties for housing offences

:43:30.:43:38.

under the Housing Act 2004. If then sees to fail to comply with

:43:39.:43:43.

management regulations has `lso been added to the list of offencds that

:43:44.:43:48.

can attract civil penalties. As well as an alternative to prosecttion.

:43:49.:43:52.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we have listened to be debate that has taken

:43:53.:43:57.

place as the Bill has progrdssed through the house. During committee,

:43:58.:44:01.

members expressed concern that ?5,000 was not much of a

:44:02.:44:05.

disincentive for a rogue landlord to continue to operate, as thex could

:44:06.:44:09.

easily recoup that some in ` relatively short period of time

:44:10.:44:14.

through unlawfully continuing to rent properties out and we

:44:15.:44:17.

absolutely agree with that. A potential fine of up to ?30,000 will

:44:18.:44:24.

significantly negate any economic advantage a rogue landlord light

:44:25.:44:27.

seek to achieve through bre`ching a banning order. Madam Deputy Speaker,

:44:28.:44:31.

the amendments put forward during this part of our debate will help

:44:32.:44:37.

create a fairer housing market and one which will see unscrupulous

:44:38.:44:40.

landlords driven from the sdctor. I beg to move. The offence of

:44:41.:44:49.

contravening and overcrowding notice, level five. The question is

:44:50.:44:55.

that clause 60 to be read a second time. I rise to speak to new clause

:44:56.:45:06.

is 52, 53, 54, amendments 144, 9 and 60 seven. New clause 52 follows

:45:07.:45:12.

on from my honourable friend the member for Westminster North, the

:45:13.:45:16.

Private Members' Bill which sought a similar aim, and also follows on

:45:17.:45:20.

from discussions on this molent at committee stage. New clause 50 to 60

:45:21.:45:27.

put into legislation a duty for all private sector landlords to ensure

:45:28.:45:29.

their properties are fit for habitation when left. The m`jority

:45:30.:45:34.

of landlords let property which is and remains in a decent standard.

:45:35.:45:38.

Many landlords go out of thdir way to ensure that even the slightest

:45:39.:45:43.

safety hazard is sorted quickly and efficiently. So it is even lore

:45:44.:45:48.

distressing when we see reports of homes unfit for human habit`tion

:45:49.:45:52.

being let, often at obscene prices. A quarter of a million propdrties in

:45:53.:45:55.

the private rented sector are estimated to have a categorx one

:45:56.:46:00.

hazard and according to a m`jor report by Shelter following a YouGov

:46:01.:46:06.

survey, 61% of tenants were found to have experienced mould, damp,

:46:07.:46:12.

leaking windows, hazards, animal infestations or a gas leak hn the

:46:13.:46:18.

last 12 months. I will give way I am sure she would reflect the

:46:19.:46:25.

frustrations of colleagues `cross this house with dealing with these

:46:26.:46:32.

frustrations but they're already significant powers to deal with

:46:33.:46:36.

these problems. Before we ghve these new powers to local authorities

:46:37.:46:40.

could she say what more could be done to encourage local authorities

:46:41.:46:43.

to exercise the powers they already have. This has been raised before.

:46:44.:46:51.

What is happening at the molent is the private rented sector is

:46:52.:46:54.

massively increasing yet thd resources for local councils, I

:46:55.:46:57.

agree they do have the powers, but many local councils have very

:46:58.:47:02.

depleted members of staff able to go out and inspect and that is why we

:47:03.:47:06.

need to show that we take this very seriously and councils should be

:47:07.:47:10.

making sure they have properly staffed departments, and I know that

:47:11.:47:14.

councils will then come back and said we don't have the funds, and

:47:15.:47:17.

that is another issue, but just because there isn't the funds does

:47:18.:47:20.

not mean that we should acttally say that this is... Parliament has for

:47:21.:47:27.

over 100 years considered and legislated for standards in the

:47:28.:47:31.

private rented sector. In 1885, the Housing of the working classes act,

:47:32.:47:37.

along with 200 years later, the landlord act, both placed l`ndlord

:47:38.:47:45.

regulations under regulations.. There were issues such as d`mp,

:47:46.:47:49.

mould and infestation, yet these duties only apply to those

:47:50.:47:55.

fulfilling particular rent criteria, which is well out dated. It was last

:47:56.:48:00.

updated in 1957 and now onlx applies to properties where the anntal rent

:48:01.:48:07.

is less than ?80. So this clause seeks to remove those limits which

:48:08.:48:11.

will allow the previous leghslation passed by this Has to fulfil its

:48:12.:48:15.

purpose, to place a duty on landlords to provide a safe and

:48:16.:48:19.

secure environment. I'm surd all members will have received casework

:48:20.:48:22.

from constituents living in poor conditions. In my own consthtuency

:48:23.:48:27.

it is one of the biggest issues The office phone rings of the book with

:48:28.:48:33.

calls about mould, health, `nd the inaction of some landlords. Where

:48:34.:48:36.

else in modern day life would someone get away with this? It is a

:48:37.:48:40.

consumer issue. If I purchased a mobile phone or computer th`t didn't

:48:41.:48:44.

work, didn't do what it said it would all was unsafe, I would take

:48:45.:48:47.

it back and get a refund. If I purchased food from a shop `nd it

:48:48.:48:55.

was unsafe to eat, there is a high possibility the shopkeeper could be

:48:56.:48:59.

prosecuted, but if I rented from a landlord perhaps the only available

:49:00.:49:02.

property for me and it was tnsafe to live in, I can either put up or shut

:49:03.:49:08.

up. Renters lack basic constmer power to bargain for better

:49:09.:49:12.

conditions. Shelter notes that one in eight renters are not asked for

:49:13.:49:15.

repairs to be carried out or challenged for rent increasd -- have

:49:16.:49:22.

not asked for repairs to be carried out or challenged rent incrdases in

:49:23.:49:26.

the last year for fear of eviction. Because there is no current

:49:27.:49:30.

legislation in place to enforce landlords to ensure their properties

:49:31.:49:34.

are safe to live in, a third of private rented homes fail to meet

:49:35.:49:38.

Government standards. Failure to legislate will see the qualhty of

:49:39.:49:41.

accommodation in the ever-growing private rented sector fall

:49:42.:49:46.

drastically behind. Many in this chamber today will have horror

:49:47.:49:49.

stories from their own casework of poor living conditions. This week I

:49:50.:49:53.

had a family right to me about thick mould covering their walls, a broken

:49:54.:49:59.

heating system, leaking toilet and sewage problem, and the imp`ct that

:50:00.:50:02.

had on their family and health. Their five-year-old son has had a

:50:03.:50:06.

cough his entire life and hd has just finished a course of steroids

:50:07.:50:09.

and yet another course of antibiotics. They daughter suffers

:50:10.:50:13.

from constant migraines and the landlord refuses to do anything and

:50:14.:50:18.

the environmental teams oftdn lack resources to carry out inspdctions

:50:19.:50:22.

and enforcement work. While it is true that the majority of places are

:50:23.:50:26.

safe to live in, it is unacceptable that in 2016 we still have people,

:50:27.:50:31.

our neighbours, our constittents, living in properties and safe for

:50:32.:50:35.

human habitation and down the country. -- unsafe. This cl`use

:50:36.:50:39.

would change the lives of m`ny tenants and provide a more robust,

:50:40.:50:43.

secure and safe private rented sector, something I believe we would

:50:44.:50:48.

all wish. New clause 53 is `lso about safety. It would introduce a

:50:49.:50:53.

requirement for electrical safety checks. Many organisations from

:50:54.:50:58.

across the sector support this measure. The Local Government

:50:59.:51:03.

Association, the Fire brigade, cannot shelter, British Gas, Crisis.

:51:04.:51:08.

They have all given their stpport in the past four mandatory electrical

:51:09.:51:16.

safety checks. It is estimated that electricity causes more than 20 000

:51:17.:51:22.

house fires each year leading to around 350 seriously injured and 750

:51:23.:51:28.

deaths across the UK. Whilst carbon monoxide,... These risks obviously

:51:29.:51:37.

remain serious. It is right we continue to monitor but it does show

:51:38.:51:42.

what is at stake when we discuss electric fires. While landlords have

:51:43.:51:45.

a duty to keep electrical installations in proper working

:51:46.:51:49.

order and ensure any appliances are safe, there remains poorly

:51:50.:51:54.

maintained installations in the sector and there is no exquhsite

:51:55.:51:58.

requirement for landlords to prove to a tenant that a property is

:51:59.:52:03.

electrically safe, yet housds of multiple occupation do have periodic

:52:04.:52:06.

inspections carried out, evdry five years, so if you are in a house of

:52:07.:52:16.

multiple occupancy, you are in safer -- or a B, you are safer than the

:52:17.:52:23.

general renting population. There will be homes and houses th`t are

:52:24.:52:26.

left to six other people th`t may not be related to each other but it

:52:27.:52:31.

is not an HMO and therefore there is not the legislation there. Lany good

:52:32.:52:35.

landlords to bring electric`l safety checks and ensure that all

:52:36.:52:40.

appliances are safe did at the beginning -- safe and tested at the

:52:41.:52:45.

beginning and end of a tenancy. We have seen movement on this hssue in

:52:46.:52:49.

Scotland when his cottage Government have introduced mandatory electrical

:52:50.:52:50.

safety checks. In Wales we have growing cross-party

:52:51.:53:01.

support. Electrical safety first ran a survey with MPs in England in

:53:02.:53:04.

September and there was overwhelming support for this. During thd

:53:05.:53:09.

committee stage the Minister intimated that he was warm towards

:53:10.:53:13.

this suggestion, so I'd be grateful if at some point he could ldt us

:53:14.:53:18.

know how far those conversations have gone and whether there will be

:53:19.:53:25.

movement in the future. She's making a strong case for the government to

:53:26.:53:29.

make electrical safety checks more serious. Can I suggest to hdr that

:53:30.:53:33.

given the pressure on housing and the increasing number of

:53:34.:53:38.

buy-to-lets, HMOs and he and bees, the different ways people are

:53:39.:53:42.

letting properties, this is an issue that will not go away and it could

:53:43.:53:47.

get worse -- B lure. Most decent landlords carry out these checks,

:53:48.:53:51.

this is very much about encouraging those who don't to follow good

:53:52.:53:57.

practice -- B I thank mx honourable friend for the

:53:58.:54:00.

intervention, this is right, across the private rented sector m`ny

:54:01.:54:03.

landlords do the things we wish and it is the minority and for the

:54:04.:54:06.

minority that we really need to legislate. As I was just mentioning

:54:07.:54:11.

the Minister did say during committee that this was somdthing

:54:12.:54:14.

they were looking at. I know there have been conversations with the

:54:15.:54:21.

sector, so I'd be very pleased to hear how far those conversations

:54:22.:54:23.

have gone and whether or not there would be something coming forward in

:54:24.:54:28.

the future. Moving on to thd new clause 54, this is about hotses of

:54:29.:54:34.

multiple occupancy. The new clause 54 would remove the 3-storex

:54:35.:54:39.

condition on HMOs. This would have the effect of seeing mandatory HMO

:54:40.:54:43.

licence is required by all who meet the other requirements but not three

:54:44.:54:49.

stories high. HMOs come in ` variety of forms and the current definition

:54:50.:54:52.

does not get the actuality on the ground. I know the government is

:54:53.:54:58.

consulting on extending mandatory licensing of homes of multiple

:54:59.:55:00.

occupancy and I'd be interested to hear what the Minister has to say

:55:01.:55:05.

about where he thinks that consultation would go. Cars, HMOs do

:55:06.:55:10.

make up one of the main forls of private sector housing for students,

:55:11.:55:15.

young professionals and single people on low incomes. -- bdcause.

:55:16.:55:19.

The threshold of three storhes mean many actual HMOs don't requhre a

:55:20.:55:24.

license. Down my road there is a bungalow that is clearly not three

:55:25.:55:28.

stories, which has over the previous year had as many as ten unrdlated

:55:29.:55:35.

people living in it. -- storeys It would clearly be an HMO in `ny other

:55:36.:55:40.

way apart from the fact it hs not three storeys- stop private rented

:55:41.:55:43.

housing is an important part of the housing sector and with the

:55:44.:55:47.

reduction of housing benefit for the under 35s only having shared

:55:48.:55:51.

occupancy there are more and more properties now which are in all

:55:52.:55:55.

affect HMOs apart from this 3-storey provision. The new clause, `nd wider

:55:56.:56:01.

government consultation provided an opportunity to evaluate the purpose

:56:02.:56:06.

of HMO licensing, simply to provide for a more robust, secure and safe

:56:07.:56:10.

private rented sector through licensing of houses, multiple

:56:11.:56:12.

occupancy which operate with shared facilities. Moving on to amdndment

:56:13.:56:21.

154. Amendment 154 would le`d to the retention of sections 225 and 2 6 of

:56:22.:56:30.

the Housing act 2004. The sdctions require every local authority must,

:56:31.:56:34.

when carrying out a review tnder section eight of the Housing act

:56:35.:56:37.

1985 carry out an assessment of the accommodation needs of Gypshes and

:56:38.:56:41.

Travellers who reside in thd area and provide for the Secretary of

:56:42.:56:45.

State to issue guidance to how local housing authorities can meet those

:56:46.:56:49.

needs. There has clearly bedn, and continues to be a need to rdcognise

:56:50.:56:52.

the differing housing needs of Gypsies and Travellers. Anyone with

:56:53.:56:57.

an understanding of this colmunity would appreciate they do have

:56:58.:57:00.

different housing needs and the government's own impact assdssment

:57:01.:57:03.

of the bill recognises the perception of differential treatment

:57:04.:57:06.

of Gypsies and Travellers. We've seen lots of evidence at colmittee

:57:07.:57:10.

stage in written and oral evidence of the devastating impact that this

:57:11.:57:15.

could have on Gypsy and Traveller communities, the withdrawal of two

:57:16.:57:18.

to five and two to six, so this amendment wishes to see it retains

:57:19.:57:27.

-- 225 and 226. The Joseph Rowntree committee said Gypsies and

:57:28.:57:31.

Travellers are the most excluded group in Britain today and lany are

:57:32.:57:34.

concerned that the additions concerned misunderstand the

:57:35.:57:39.

accommodation needs. As the Department for local communhties

:57:40.:57:48.

guidance states of 2007 in the past the needs of Gypsies and Tr`vellers

:57:49.:57:50.

have not routinely formed p`rt of the process by which local

:57:51.:57:54.

authorities assess people's housing needs. The consequences of this

:57:55.:57:58.

being that the current and projected accommodation needs of Gypshes and

:57:59.:58:02.

Travellers have often not bden well understood. If the requiremdnt to

:58:03.:58:05.

specifically assess the accommodation needs is removed there

:58:06.:58:09.

will be an even higher rate of homelessness and even less sites to

:58:10.:58:13.

meet their needs will be delivered and even less land allocated in

:58:14.:58:18.

local plans to meet their nded. As a result of the shortage of atthorised

:58:19.:58:21.

sites for Gypsies and Travellers will have no alternative but to camp

:58:22.:58:27.

in unauthorised manner which impacts on their community and other settled

:58:28.:58:31.

communities around them. Without authorised sites they will have

:58:32.:58:36.

difficulty accessing water, toilets, refuse collection, schools `nd

:58:37.:58:42.

employment. Local authority spent millions of pounds eg on

:58:43.:58:46.

unauthorised incumbents, evhction costs, clearer costs. This hs a

:58:47.:58:51.

lose, lose situation. Where Gypsies and Travellers' needs are not met

:58:52.:58:59.

and local authorities are ilpacted as a consequence. The community and

:59:00.:59:03.

law partnership are concerndd about the Gypsy and Traveller

:59:04.:59:07.

accommodation needs being btried in the general housing need. They

:59:08.:59:10.

highlight how this communitx are traditionally hard to reach groups

:59:11.:59:13.

and as such require focused guidance from local authorities to assess

:59:14.:59:17.

their needs. Gypsies and Tr`vellers already experienced some of the

:59:18.:59:21.

poorest social outcomes of `ny group in our society and accommod`tion is

:59:22.:59:24.

a key determinant of the wider inequalities. We have also seen

:59:25.:59:28.

written evidence from the showman's Guild of Great Britain, the main

:59:29.:59:30.

representative body for travelling show people who shared extrdme

:59:31.:59:35.

concern with these clauses `nd the impact on their work. I be grateful

:59:36.:59:40.

of the Minister can outline the impact on travelling show pdople and

:59:41.:59:42.

any reassurance he can give the Guild to show people these clauses

:59:43.:59:46.

will not impact them. The policy in this area is different across the

:59:47.:59:49.

nation is forced up the Welsh government takes a different

:59:50.:59:52.

approach to the issue of sight provision on introducing a statutory

:59:53.:59:55.

duty on local authorities to facilitate sight provision. Wide

:59:56.:00:00.

does the Minister think Gypsies and Travellers should face the sort of

:00:01.:00:04.

postcode lottery? We believd the amendment is necessary to continue

:00:05.:00:07.

support for Traveller and Gxpsy communities who are one of the most

:00:08.:00:12.

excluded groups in Britain `nd paralegal concerns. The public

:00:13.:00:19.

sector equality duty recognhses them as an ethnic minority and the UK has

:00:20.:00:23.

another addition to facilit`te the traditional way of life for Gypsies

:00:24.:00:27.

and Travellers. I be grateftl of the Minister could confirm whether the

:00:28.:00:29.

removal of this clause would go against that. Are amendment would

:00:30.:00:36.

ensure the retention of sections 225 and 226 of the Housing Act 2004

:00:37.:00:40.

which would ensure their hotsing needs are assessed by local

:00:41.:00:43.

authorities, to make sure that safe sites can be continued to bd than to

:00:44.:00:47.

fight and avoid the lose-lose situation letter in the bill were

:00:48.:00:51.

under a presented groups face their housing needs being swallowdd up by

:00:52.:00:54.

the general housing need. As the clause stands it would lead to many

:00:55.:00:59.

unintended consequences, shortage of order I sites for juices and

:01:00.:01:03.

Travellers, rise in unauthorised sites, worse safety, greater

:01:04.:01:06.

pressure on local authoritids and to pressure on local communitids -

:01:07.:01:11.

Gypsies and Travellers. I hope the government will consider thhs

:01:12.:01:15.

amendment. Moving onto amendment 99 and amendment to clause 92, this

:01:16.:01:20.

would ensure those with an dntry on the database of rogue landlords

:01:21.:01:25.

would not be granted a licence to run an HMO. Whilst those subject to

:01:26.:01:29.

a banning order would not bd able to receive an HMO licence, as they

:01:30.:01:32.

would be in breach of the b`nning order, there are many others on the

:01:33.:01:35.

road landlords and letting `gents database who could still apply and

:01:36.:01:40.

receive an HMO licence -- rogue landlords. As the House will be

:01:41.:01:42.

aware of local housing the Prydie may include other persons on the

:01:43.:01:46.

database rather than applying for a banning order in a case where a

:01:47.:01:50.

person's offences are slightly less serious and the local authority

:01:51.:01:53.

considers monitoring the person is more appropriate than seeking a

:01:54.:01:56.

banning order. This amendment seeks assurance those people would not be

:01:57.:02:00.

considered for an HMO licence. It would have the added bonus of

:02:01.:02:04.

ensuring the local housing `uthority checks with the rogue landlords and

:02:05.:02:08.

lettings agents had to base to insure the applicant is allowed and

:02:09.:02:11.

nobody subject to a banning order would slip through. And if hn the

:02:12.:02:15.

future the database of rogud landlords and letting agents were to

:02:16.:02:19.

be expanded upon it would provide further protection for tenants

:02:20.:02:23.

against rogue landlords. We are as has been mentioned in earlidr

:02:24.:02:26.

debates at committee stage, supportive of the message to tackle

:02:27.:02:30.

rogue landlords to ensure the security and safety for ten`nts in

:02:31.:02:33.

the sector and penalise crilinal landlords. However, we would like to

:02:34.:02:38.

see added this further meastre to ensure that rogue landlords are not

:02:39.:02:42.

able in any circumstance to be granted an HMO licence. This

:02:43.:02:46.

amendment would help to drive up standards across the sector and

:02:47.:02:51.

protect tenants in HMOs frol rogue landlords. Amendment

:02:52.:02:55.

67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko is an amendment to clause 93 which

:02:56.:02:59.

introduces schedule four, which amends the Housing Act of 2004 -

:03:00.:03:08.

Amendment 67. Prosecution is an alternative to certain offences Are

:03:09.:03:12.

amendment would mean that fhnancial penalties could be sought in

:03:13.:03:15.

addition to prosecution rather than as an alternative. Why we stpport

:03:16.:03:18.

measures in the Bill that t`ckle rogue landlords the bill cotld go

:03:19.:03:21.

further to penalise criminal landlords to make it harder for them

:03:22.:03:24.

to get away with housing related offences, to deter them frol

:03:25.:03:29.

committing the crime and deter them from returning to the sector as well

:03:30.:03:32.

as riding adequate punishment for their offence. At present, the bill

:03:33.:03:35.

would allow for a financial penalty to be sought instead of a criminal

:03:36.:03:42.

prosecution in cases from f`ilure to comply with improvement nothces

:03:43.:03:46.

letting an unlicensed HMO alongst other offences. Clearly there will

:03:47.:03:50.

be cases when a financial pdnalty would be more appropriate, `s well

:03:51.:03:54.

as there may be cases where a prosecution route would be lore

:03:55.:04:00.

appropriate. However, there may be further situations where both routes

:04:01.:04:02.

would be appropriate and thhs amendment would seek to allow this

:04:03.:04:07.

to happen. This would help hn situations where the impact of the

:04:08.:04:10.

offence is unclear. A local authority Madine at financi`l

:04:11.:04:16.

penalty appropriate, -- may deem. But if the impact of the orhginal

:04:17.:04:20.

offence escalates they may `lso wish to add an additional prosecttion

:04:21.:04:24.

route. Making provision for both routes will allow greater

:04:25.:04:27.

flexibility and local authorities could choose to find, prosecute but

:04:28.:04:33.

they could also choose both measures and this amendment would increase

:04:34.:04:35.

the options available to local authorities to make sure thd bill

:04:36.:04:38.

goes further to penalise crhminal landlords, to defer them from

:04:39.:04:43.

committing crimes and deter them from returning to the sector as well

:04:44.:04:46.

as providing adequate punishment for the offence. In doing this we hope

:04:47.:04:50.

we could further ensure the security and safety of tenants in thd sector

:04:51.:04:54.

and help drive up standards. Should the government is not accept new

:04:55.:04:58.

clause 52 we will seek to dhvide the House on that particular amdndment

:04:59.:05:05.

and should amendment is 79, 76 and 77 in the name of the honourable

:05:06.:05:08.

member from Bromley and Chislehurst amongst others seek to test the

:05:09.:05:13.

House will on those amendments on the CPO provisions which we believe

:05:14.:05:17.

water down the provisions of the act this side of the House would oppose

:05:18.:05:22.

those in a vote. Thank you. I rise to speak in favour of new

:05:23.:05:30.

clause 42. It is quite contradictory situation that in a very high value

:05:31.:05:33.

area like St Albans that often people will look to live in mobile

:05:34.:05:39.

home parks because that is the most affordable route to securing their

:05:40.:05:44.

own home. Whilst I have a l`rge number of mobile home sites within

:05:45.:05:47.

my constituency as well as some of the highest house prices and least

:05:48.:05:53.

affordability in the countrx, I was pleased that the last Coalition

:05:54.:05:55.

Government sought to tackle some of the abuses of the rogue sitd owners

:05:56.:06:01.

in the last Parliament. Howdver I do think this problem of behng able

:06:02.:06:07.

to sell your own mobile homd freely without being shackled with enormous

:06:08.:06:11.

costs is actually something that does need tackling. It is worth

:06:12.:06:15.

probing with a new clause 42, and I'd be interested to hear the

:06:16.:06:20.

Minister's views on the matter. I have a particular mobile hole park

:06:21.:06:23.

in my constituency, Newlands Park and residents have told me that when

:06:24.:06:28.

bands become available, the park homes become available, it hs often

:06:29.:06:31.

so difficult to sell that p`rticular Park home, Madame Deputy Spdaker,

:06:32.:06:36.

that what happens in the end is the Park home is bought up by the site

:06:37.:06:43.

owner. And gradually more of the park homes are becoming in ownership

:06:44.:06:47.

of the site owner and then the site owner rents them out at a hhgh

:06:48.:06:52.

rental rate. This is somethhng that is happening because on manx sites

:06:53.:06:56.

throughout the United Kingdom, not only is the cost of selling one s

:06:57.:07:00.

mobile home hugely disproportionate to the value of the actual van on

:07:01.:07:07.

the site but there are restrictions on those selling the mobile homes.

:07:08.:07:11.

For example in Newlands Park there is an insistence on vetting the

:07:12.:07:13.

potential new buyer of the lobile home, done by the site owner. There

:07:14.:07:20.

is also restrictions on the how when and wording associated with

:07:21.:07:23.

displaying advertise meant for selling the mobile home. Thhs can

:07:24.:07:28.

mean that in the sites that are poorly run, or run by owner is

:07:29.:07:34.

landlords that what can happen is that those mobile home, or park home

:07:35.:07:38.

sites can actually start becoming controlled by the site owner. I

:07:39.:07:44.

think one of the tools that can be done within this bill, and hf not in

:07:45.:07:49.

this bill, maybe another look at the mobile homes Park act, we could be

:07:50.:07:53.

looking to restrict the control that unscrupulous owners may choose to

:07:54.:07:59.

try and exercise over those who wish to divest themselves of park home

:08:00.:08:05.

sites. Park home sites are often owned by elderly people, divorced

:08:06.:08:09.

people, single people, people on low incomes, people are not alw`ys very

:08:10.:08:13.

savvy or able to bend themsdlves legally should they find thdmselves

:08:14.:08:16.

being put in a difficult position. -- defend themselves. By putting it

:08:17.:08:23.

into war as this clause six to-do the government would support those

:08:24.:08:25.

owners and it would perhaps be a shot across the bowels of those site

:08:26.:08:32.

owners, who seek to make life so difficult and so expensive to those

:08:33.:08:39.

Park home owners, that in the end they give up and sell it to the site

:08:40.:08:43.

owner and he builds up a lucrative profit -- shot across the bows.

:08:44.:08:51.

Builds up a lucrative private empire and removes those homes frol other

:08:52.:08:54.

people on low incomes being able to buy them in an affordable m`nner. I

:08:55.:08:58.

think adrift kind this parthcular new clause is very welcome, and I

:08:59.:09:03.

hope the Minister can give ts an indication on whether greatdr

:09:04.:09:05.

protections will be given to people who live on Park home sites, because

:09:06.:09:09.

if not now I'd like to know that it was coming down the route at some

:09:10.:09:12.

point in the future, becausd Park home owners have come some of the

:09:13.:09:18.

most disadvantaged grey are`s in housing and it's time they had a

:09:19.:09:21.

much stronger champion. This government in coalition did it last

:09:22.:09:25.

time and I hope this governlent this time will take it a step further and

:09:26.:09:28.

strengthen up the protections for Park homeowners.

:09:29.:09:35.

I am grateful to be called. The honourable lady, apart from her

:09:36.:09:42.

other duties in this place, she also leads the group on Bangladesh. I'm

:09:43.:09:48.

pleased to be following her in this debate. I want to speak on new

:09:49.:09:55.

clauses three and four, which stand in my name, and express my

:09:56.:10:00.

appreciation to Mr Glenn McKee in the Public Bill Office for his

:10:01.:10:05.

expert assistance crafting new clauses three and four. And to thank

:10:06.:10:13.

the Leasehold Partnership for the encouragement in making surd we have

:10:14.:10:17.

new clause three on leasehold reform. My constituency is the

:10:18.:10:25.

second highest number of le`sehold properties in the country. So this

:10:26.:10:33.

is a matter which has great constituents the significance, and

:10:34.:10:37.

Klaus four on tenants' writds, I have 50% of the properties hn my

:10:38.:10:42.

constituency being socially rented, and so this is also a big issue

:10:43.:10:47.

locally. On leasehold reforl, I m pleased that the Government has

:10:48.:10:50.

recognised the scale of the issue. Led by the honourable gentldman who

:10:51.:10:56.

has been campaigning on leasehold reform for many, many years, and

:10:57.:10:59.

whom I'm pleased to be supporting on this issue, and who is backdd up by

:11:00.:11:07.

the leasehold partnership organised by Martin Berry. He and I h`ve

:11:08.:11:16.

arranged a forum here at Westminster for parties interested in ldasehold

:11:17.:11:19.

reform and they have been attended by professional bodies, but

:11:20.:11:23.

individuals, by leaseholders and others. They have been raishng these

:11:24.:11:30.

matters with civil servants, with Government, and I'm grateful the

:11:31.:11:33.

minister has afforded us a number of opportunities to come in and meet

:11:34.:11:39.

civil servants to try to explore these issues and identify a way

:11:40.:11:45.

forward. One of the major stccesses we have had in the past 12 lonths is

:11:46.:11:51.

the Government initially estimated there were twin two and 2.34 million

:11:52.:11:58.

leaseholders in this countrx. - between. The fact that therd is now

:11:59.:12:04.

4.5 million means this is a bigger problem than the Government thought.

:12:05.:12:09.

This does not take into account the nearly 2 million leaseholders of

:12:10.:12:13.

former council properties, who exercised right to buy or h`ve

:12:14.:12:16.

subsequently bought those properties, so we are talking about

:12:17.:12:20.

nearly 6 million households in this country, a significant numbdr of our

:12:21.:12:27.

citizens affected by leaseholders and their relation. My constituents

:12:28.:12:33.

are affected by this. Among them are very wealthy professionals, in very

:12:34.:12:39.

smart properties around Can`ry Wharf, and some of them in very

:12:40.:12:43.

expensive properties, but also a number of pensioners in the east end

:12:44.:12:47.

who exercised right to buy `nd who own former council propertids, who

:12:48.:12:51.

clearly have not got the access to the resources and the assets and the

:12:52.:12:58.

finances available to some of my constituents. It also covers

:12:59.:13:05.

retirement homes and leaseholders are represented in every strata of

:13:06.:13:10.

society. From the bruised rhght the way through to the richest. So

:13:11.:13:17.

nobody is excluded from the vulnerability of living in leasehold

:13:18.:13:21.

properties. -- from the poorest to the richest. A lack of protdction

:13:22.:13:28.

and the informal dispute resolution procedure which is abused bx

:13:29.:13:33.

unscrupulous freeholders employing high powered barristers puts

:13:34.:13:38.

ordinary leaseholders, whether professionals, rich or poor, I see

:13:39.:13:43.

honourable members on the other side smiling because they are in this

:13:44.:13:51.

category, either as vulnerable leaseholders or as freeholddrs, I

:13:52.:13:55.

went say unscrupulous. I know but the honourable gentleman opposite,

:13:56.:14:01.

as if the loan West Ham supporter, we would never fall into thd

:14:02.:14:07.

category of unscrupulous. There are major weaknesses in leasehold

:14:08.:14:15.

regulation. Including issues such as the amount of service chargds, the

:14:16.:14:20.

amount of insurance which is charged, the ground rents which are

:14:21.:14:24.

charged, and forfeiture. All issues for leaseholders, where thex are

:14:25.:14:29.

vulnerable to unscrupulous freeholders. Sadly, there are too

:14:30.:14:33.

many of those even though they are in the minority. Although I do think

:14:34.:14:37.

it is important to recognisd that the sector has been attempthng to

:14:38.:14:45.

improve its performance and to raise its game with the new voluntary

:14:46.:14:49.

codes, and that has been significant progress made. But I do think that

:14:50.:14:56.

leasehold reform is something which should be on the Government's radar,

:14:57.:15:01.

certainly since leasehold h`s been increasingly used over many years.

:15:02.:15:09.

We have had six major statutes, a number of SIs other Acts of

:15:10.:15:18.

Parliament dealing with this issue, Conservative administrations,

:15:19.:15:22.

notably in 1985, 1987 and 18 93 And then the Labour Housing Act of 992,

:15:23.:15:30.

all trying to recognise this collectively as an area which needs

:15:31.:15:34.

attention. We have singularly failed to protect leaseholders and I would

:15:35.:15:39.

be very interested in hearing the minister's comments in response to

:15:40.:15:46.

those points. New clause three and the proposal which is dated within

:15:47.:15:55.

it. I am hoping that this whll galvanise the Government into asking

:15:56.:16:03.

why nothing has happened. I do understand that key discusshons have

:16:04.:16:08.

been taking place within Government in the movement of commonhold

:16:09.:16:12.

legislation, which still falls under M O J. It would seem to makd sense

:16:13.:16:22.

to place those responsibilities for housing within the bond dep`rtment.

:16:23.:16:28.

At the end of the last administration, moving into the

:16:29.:16:32.

General Election, all three main political parties supported moving

:16:33.:16:37.

this issue to DCLG, but there has not been any movement. I wotld be

:16:38.:16:40.

grateful to hear the ministdr's response. In terms of new clause

:16:41.:16:49.

four, this is far less complex. I'm disappointed we have not sedn

:16:50.:16:53.

movement on this because it is very much an issue of localism and

:16:54.:16:57.

community empowerment. If I could refer back to leasehold leghslation

:16:58.:17:01.

for a moment, one of the few protections for his hobbies that

:17:02.:17:05.

does exist, although it is very difficult to implement -- for

:17:06.:17:10.

leaseholders that does exist, is the right to sack management colpanies

:17:11.:17:13.

responsible for the upkeep of residents' homes. There is the

:17:14.:17:19.

provision for ballots to take place and a simple majority would allow

:17:20.:17:23.

residents to look for new property management companies for managing

:17:24.:17:29.

those properties. It happens very seldom. In my constituency, many

:17:30.:17:34.

thousands of tenants voted over recent decades in ballots to move

:17:35.:17:42.

responsibility for the homes from the castle to housing assochations.

:17:43.:17:47.

This was one of the mechanisms we used to deal with the 2 million

:17:48.:17:54.

homes that we inherited that were perceived as being below thd decency

:17:55.:17:58.

threshold, and it led to upgrade of nearly 1.5 million of those

:17:59.:18:03.

properties by 2010, including new kitchens, new bathrooms, dotble

:18:04.:18:07.

glazing, new security and the rest of it. Most of these schemes were

:18:08.:18:14.

successful. However, in a slall majority of transfers, they often

:18:15.:18:17.

provided by the housing associations who sought the support of local

:18:18.:18:22.

tenants and there is no provision for those tenants to express their

:18:23.:18:27.

disappointment and to cite the red -- sack their registered landlord.

:18:28.:18:32.

This is a basic element of consumer protection and any product which one

:18:33.:18:38.

byes on the open market has protections to be able to sdek

:18:39.:18:46.

compensation and redress, btt if it is your home and you are a council

:18:47.:18:52.

tenant and you vote to move to a new registered social landlord, once you

:18:53.:18:54.

are transferred, there is nowhere to go. If you are a leasehold, at least

:18:55.:18:59.

you have the provision, even though as I say it is rarely used. So my

:19:00.:19:06.

question in new clause four is trying to introduce the provision

:19:07.:19:13.

which, I am suggesting a five yearly review, which would at least give

:19:14.:19:16.

council tenants the opportunity to say to the housing associathon, or

:19:17.:19:21.

the registered social landlord who is supposed to be delivering the

:19:22.:19:25.

services which have been pahd for, that they are not doing a good

:19:26.:19:28.

enough job and that if they do not up their game we will have ` lift

:19:29.:19:34.

and sack you and me to a new housing association, or back to the council,

:19:35.:19:39.

or set up a tenant management organisation, but basically give the

:19:40.:19:43.

right to tenants to be able to hold their housing association to

:19:44.:19:47.

account. The protection at the moment is complained through the

:19:48.:19:54.

Housing ombudsman, to the rdgulator, and to get to that length is very

:19:55.:20:01.

difficult. The regulator is very reluctant to move ownership and

:20:02.:20:04.

response ability from one Housing association to another. So new

:20:05.:20:10.

clause four actually suggests that tenants should have the right that

:20:11.:20:17.

when the social landlord or housing association is not delivering, to

:20:18.:20:22.

say, you are not doing a good enough job, we want somebody else to manage

:20:23.:20:29.

the property. These clauses... One very convex, one quite strahght

:20:30.:20:32.

forward. I'm disappointed that the Government has not seen it hn its

:20:33.:20:36.

interest to bring forward these clauses themselves. I'm surd there

:20:37.:20:40.

will be some interest within the other points when the Bill lakes

:20:41.:20:43.

progress. But I would be very interested to hear the response to

:20:44.:20:51.

these points. It is always ` particular pleasure to follow the

:20:52.:20:59.

honourable gentleman as a fdllow officer for the All-party Group For

:21:00.:21:07.

The Advancement Of West Ham United, which is doing well at the loment.

:21:08.:21:13.

It is nice to recognise his very real commitment and expertise in the

:21:14.:21:17.

area of housing in particul`r. I ought to refer to my interest in the

:21:18.:21:21.

register of interests, one of which includes being a leasehold hn the

:21:22.:21:28.

honourable gentleman's constituency. My experience of stock transfer has

:21:29.:21:33.

been rather more positive btt he makes serious and important points

:21:34.:21:35.

which I do think need to be addressed. For any London MP, the

:21:36.:21:39.

issue of dealing with leaseholders is particularly important bdcause

:21:40.:21:47.

that is such a critical part of the housing's -- the capital's housing

:21:48.:21:55.

stock. One former MP, whom lany honourable members will rec`ll was

:21:56.:22:00.

and active advocate of houshng reform, it is timely to pay tribute

:22:01.:22:08.

to that work. I turned to the specific new clause amendments which

:22:09.:22:17.

sit in my name relating to the line of compulsory purchase. My smile in

:22:18.:22:23.

relation to the honourable gentleman was not so much about being a

:22:24.:22:28.

leasehold or otherwise, it was his reference to high-powered

:22:29.:22:32.

barristers. It never quite seemed like that in the County Hall, that

:22:33.:22:37.

is all I can say. This is complex but an important area of law, one

:22:38.:22:41.

where I know ministers are dngaged in the need for reform, bec`use the

:22:42.:22:46.

simple truth is our compulsory purchase law has since about 18 40

:22:47.:22:57.

grown up incrementally. It hs not coherent, and it lags behind the

:22:58.:23:02.

rest of the planning system in terms of updating. The Law Commission have

:23:03.:23:06.

recognised that. They are continuing to do work on that. I hope ht is

:23:07.:23:10.

something they will be able to revisit in the course of thhs

:23:11.:23:13.

Parliament. We need to get ` grip and have a wholesale report on

:23:14.:23:18.

compulsory purchase. That is not possible within this Bill, but I

:23:19.:23:22.

welcome the improvements th`t the Bill does make around compulsory

:23:23.:23:27.

purchase and compensation, which are good steps forward. I will suggest

:23:28.:23:30.

some other steps forward as well. I was sorry that the honourable lady

:23:31.:23:34.

on the opposition front bench thought that these were neg`tive

:23:35.:23:35.

matters. I do not see them that way. I suspect I may not entirelx

:23:36.:23:52.

succeed. But let me at least try. And really, the essence of what we

:23:53.:23:57.

are seeking to do is that there are three aspects of this. It is about

:23:58.:24:01.

fairness of treatment to landowners whose land is compulsorily `cquired.

:24:02.:24:08.

We assume that that somehow relates to landed estates and the

:24:09.:24:11.

aristocracy, but that is not the case. Many people whose land is

:24:12.:24:18.

acquired compulsorily are slall businesses and smallholders, one way

:24:19.:24:21.

or another. People who might struggle to finance the running of

:24:22.:24:25.

their businesses. It can happen in an urban area. So, further treatment

:24:26.:24:41.

is as important for the smallholder, as it is for the public authority.

:24:42.:24:46.

Secondly, to make sure that there is promptness of payment. Whatdver the

:24:47.:24:49.

circumstance, payment of compensation should be done swiftly

:24:50.:24:55.

and at a fair rate of interdst. That is the third point which my set of

:24:56.:25:03.

amendments relate to. Their has been an important step forward bx the

:25:04.:25:07.

government on this, which I welcome. I know that the Country Landowners

:25:08.:25:16.

Association, which represents both landowners and businesses in rural

:25:17.:25:20.

areas, welcomes that. But I am pressing business is to go further.

:25:21.:25:25.

Let me explain why I think these changes are needed. First of all

:25:26.:25:33.

there is the duty of care. We often have duty of care written into

:25:34.:25:36.

statute in relation to a nulber of issues. The acquisition of land can

:25:37.:25:41.

be fundamental to the futurd of a business in an area. . It c`n be

:25:42.:25:53.

fundamental to families, too. Nothing wrong with compulsory

:25:54.:25:57.

acquisition, which is somethmes necessary. But at the end of the

:25:58.:26:01.

day, the fair treatment of those people is important. What the new

:26:02.:26:07.

clause seeks to do is to pl`ce a duty of care upon acquiring

:26:08.:26:10.

authorities to make sure th`t those losing land or property are treated

:26:11.:26:16.

fairly as well as introducing a clear set of guidelines by which the

:26:17.:26:19.

authority have to add here `nd which could be judged if you like

:26:20.:26:27.

objectively against. It may be that the minister will say that xou do

:26:28.:26:30.

not need primary legislation for that. We can't talk about that in

:26:31.:26:35.

due course. But I think the issue needs to be flagged up. There is a

:26:36.:26:44.

concern amongst many practitioners. I am grateful for the support of

:26:45.:26:48.

various people, including those in the Compulsory Purchase Association,

:26:49.:26:57.

who have highlighted the fact that there is a concern about having a

:26:58.:27:00.

transparent mechanism in order to determine what is a fair rate of

:27:01.:27:05.

compensation. At the moment it is a bit a horse trading process. We need

:27:06.:27:17.

a proper benchmark by which to judge whether or not the acquiring

:27:18.:27:21.

authority is behaving reasonably. The state gives considerabld power

:27:22.:27:27.

to acquiring authorities. I do not object to that. But the corollary is

:27:28.:27:32.

that it should be exercised in a genuinely fair fashion. Most times

:27:33.:27:37.

it is, but Azman occasions when it isn't. -- but there are occ`sions

:27:38.:27:51.

when it isn't. I hope that discussions on this will be able to

:27:52.:27:58.

take forward in a constructhve way. But I hope they will concedd that it

:27:59.:28:04.

is an issue that we need to address. The second part of my remarks relate

:28:05.:28:10.

to the amendments which are in my name, amendments 76, 77 and macro

:28:11.:28:19.

79. I do not think it is right to characterise these as weakening the

:28:20.:28:24.

power of compulsory purchasd at all. Compulsory purchase requires

:28:25.:28:27.

fairness to both sides. What we are seeking to do is first of all to

:28:28.:28:32.

make sure that there is prolpt payment, and secondly to make sure

:28:33.:28:35.

that it comes at a fair ratd of interest for those people who are

:28:36.:28:42.

going to be paid. Let me de`l with the question of advanced paxment,

:28:43.:28:48.

amendment 79. Very often yot find that if land is compulsorilx

:28:49.:28:53.

acquired, it may be a farmer, it may be a rural business, but thdy then

:28:54.:28:59.

find it difficult to secure funding to take their business forw`rd. If

:29:00.:29:03.

part of their holding is severed, part of the business is in dffect

:29:04.:29:10.

taken away, it may interrupt their existing financial arrangemdnts with

:29:11.:29:17.

their bank. They may have to go back to the bank if a mortgage, for

:29:18.:29:20.

example, has been borrowed `gainst a certain number of acres. So it is

:29:21.:29:27.

important that they have prompt compensation and a fair ratd of

:29:28.:29:31.

compensation in order to give comfort to the bank. That is what we

:29:32.:29:37.

are is seeking to address. @t a moment, even though it is possible

:29:38.:29:44.

to sort out the acquisition and compensation sum, nonetheless there

:29:45.:29:48.

are frequently quite long ddlays after the authority has takdn

:29:49.:29:50.

possession of the land. And choosing the point. Once the acquiring

:29:51.:29:55.

authority has taken possesshon of the landless and of course these are

:29:56.:29:58.

no longer available for use as part of the business. But they m`y not

:29:59.:30:06.

get the compensation for it any many months and in effect have to make

:30:07.:30:09.

bridging arrangements with their banks. I give way. I have bden

:30:10.:30:17.

involved in a case myself bdfore coming here to Parliament, where the

:30:18.:30:23.

bank required immediate rep`yment of loans facility because of the

:30:24.:30:29.

reduction of its security, `nd of course the business had to close

:30:30.:30:33.

because it did not have accdss to funds immediately. His reasonable

:30:34.:30:36.

amendment that payment should be made promptly, to enable thd

:30:37.:30:40.

business to continue, I would have thought would be very welcole. I am

:30:41.:30:45.

grateful. I know he has professional expertise in this matter. I would

:30:46.:30:52.

say to ministers, of all thd amendments and new clauses hn my

:30:53.:30:56.

name, I would urge them most strongly to pay attention to this,

:30:57.:31:04.

because this is precisely the one thing which actually puts pdople out

:31:05.:31:09.

of business, as the honourable gentleman says. I would urgd people

:31:10.:31:17.

to look swiftly and urgentlx at this. Perhaps it does not rdquire

:31:18.:31:21.

primary legislation far, it does need to be addressed. My honourable

:31:22.:31:30.

friend is absolutely right. Established firms of folding because

:31:31.:31:34.

of this. Unless they are able to go back, sometimes having to increase

:31:35.:31:38.

their exposure, sometimes h`ving to put up the family home to ghve the

:31:39.:31:42.

security, that cannot be just under those circumstances. I am

:31:43.:31:45.

particularly grateful to my honourable friend for that

:31:46.:31:50.

intervention. The end tulips what this amendment is all about. The

:31:51.:31:54.

final point, to reinforce hhs intervention, is that failing to pay

:31:55.:31:59.

compensation in this way actually runs contrary to virtually `ll other

:32:00.:32:03.

commercial transactions. It is an outlier which puts people who are

:32:04.:32:09.

compulsorily acquired in a disadvantage as position, vdry

:32:10.:32:12.

possibly against public wadhs and makes it really difficult for any

:32:13.:32:16.

landowner or business person to run their business efficiently `gainst

:32:17.:32:21.

that background. That is thd purpose of that amendment. I hope it will be

:32:22.:32:26.

looked upon favourably by the government. The route I am not

:32:27.:32:31.

fussed about but it is the outcome of fairness which I think is the

:32:32.:32:37.

most important. Amendment 77 is consequential upon that, Madame

:32:38.:32:45.

Deputy Speaker. Can I now ttrn to amendment 79, the second part of it.

:32:46.:32:49.

First of all it is important that we have prompt payment. The second part

:32:50.:32:53.

is realistic levels of compdnsation. It can be assessed through the

:32:54.:32:56.

current system for great is the question of interest on latd

:32:57.:33:06.

payment. The current governlent has rightly emphasised the importance

:33:07.:33:15.

for businesses of prompt,. ,- prompt payment. It is something whhch

:33:16.:33:19.

weighs heavily upon small to medium-sized businesses, because

:33:20.:33:25.

they are more exposed to thd need for external bank financing the

:33:26.:33:30.

most. They are not likely to be able to drawdown on capital. We recognise

:33:31.:33:35.

and I welcome the governments increase in the rate which hs paid

:33:36.:33:43.

to 4%, as I recall it. That is an important and valuable step forward.

:33:44.:33:46.

By urge them that it should go further. When compulsory purchase

:33:47.:33:53.

goes through, very off on the land holders find it very diffictlt to

:33:54.:33:58.

secure the funding to go forward, and in particular it is important to

:33:59.:34:02.

have that realistic rate of interest paid. Even under the current changes

:34:03.:34:11.

proposed, it will lag behind what is effectively the market-wide. So we

:34:12.:34:17.

have this situation, the nature of compulsory purchase means that the

:34:18.:34:19.

majority of compensation dud is meant to be paid before. Whdn it is

:34:20.:34:27.

not, there ought to be some compensation for those who `re held

:34:28.:34:31.

up by the late payment of that. By and large we are in a situation now

:34:32.:34:35.

where the government has proposed introducing an interest ratd of 2%

:34:36.:34:37.

above the base rate on late payments. That is a step forward.

:34:38.:34:43.

However it is still well below the commercial breaks. And thesd

:34:44.:34:49.

amendments would see an intdrest rate on compensation which was due

:34:50.:34:53.

before entry but not paid on time at 8% above base that. That is in line

:34:54.:35:02.

with the interest which is charged on late payments on commerchal

:35:03.:35:06.

transactions. The truth is, it is no burden on the acquiring authority.

:35:07.:35:10.

All they have to do is pay on time. If they pay on time this and they do

:35:11.:35:13.

not attract the punitive rate of interest. It is actually a spur to

:35:14.:35:17.

good behaviour by acquiring authorities. But 8% would bd closer

:35:18.:35:24.

to the market rate than the 4% which is currently available. We suggest

:35:25.:35:30.

that any compensation on a quantifiable amount should be at 8%.

:35:31.:35:44.

What we are then saying is, in relation to those other paylents,

:35:45.:35:47.

which are not always quantifiable immediately but become apparent

:35:48.:35:51.

there, that should attract `n interest rate of 4% above b`se,

:35:52.:35:55.

which is in line with commercial lending rates. So, we are shmply

:35:56.:36:00.

saying to acquiring authorities behave like any other commercial

:36:01.:36:05.

body would do. That is not seeking to undermine the compulsory purchase

:36:06.:36:12.

regime at all. But it is making sure that it acts fairly. Those `cquiring

:36:13.:36:23.

authorities who are efficient should have nothing to fear. Why should the

:36:24.:36:29.

landowner be in a worse poshtion than they would be if, let's say,

:36:30.:36:33.

the land had been acquired `s a result of a commercial negotiation

:36:34.:36:41.

or, let's say, a judgment of the court in relation to the land. It

:36:42.:36:46.

may sound technical but it hs important to a lot of rural

:36:47.:36:54.

businesses. I think we only have one farm in Bromley in Chislehurst, but

:36:55.:36:58.

it is an important issue for many businesses in rural areas.

:36:59.:37:05.

It is a delight to follow mx colleague. He has expertise in

:37:06.:37:13.

housing and planning. I would like to make some remarks in rel`tion to

:37:14.:37:19.

conditions in the private rdnted sector and also in relation to. . To

:37:20.:37:25.

respond in a way and to agrde, really, with my colleague... I'm not

:37:26.:37:41.

an expert in housing and pl`nning but I do know that I have jtst

:37:42.:37:46.

opened my 1000th constituency case since May the 8th and there was a

:37:47.:37:53.

lot of work to be done. 60% of all people who have come to see me or

:37:54.:37:58.

written to me or phoned me have talked to me about housing `nd

:37:59.:38:01.

whereas I think perhaps 20 xears ago the member for Hornsey and Wood

:38:02.:38:06.

Green would have been dealing mainly with local authorities or housing

:38:07.:38:09.

associations, or home owners, so many more cases now do relate to the

:38:10.:38:13.

private rented sector, and that is why it is a real pleasure that I

:38:14.:38:16.

have been able to speak and get into the speaking order today. As we know

:38:17.:38:22.

from a previous debate which my honourable friend the member for

:38:23.:38:26.

Kensington North lead on in a Private Members' Bill, the

:38:27.:38:29.

conditions of many of our homes in the private rented sector ldave a

:38:30.:38:33.

lot to be desired. We know now that instead of the 10% or 15% of the

:38:34.:38:38.

population in an average London borough, people living in the

:38:39.:38:43.

private rented sector can now constitute up to 45% of reshdents.

:38:44.:38:47.

That is why we need to be mtch more ambitious about the quality of homes

:38:48.:38:53.

that house constituents. In particular, we know now that fewer

:38:54.:38:59.

and fewer people are able to own their own homes and home ownership

:39:00.:39:03.

is at an all-time low, and we know that the Government policy hs to try

:39:04.:39:10.

to assist people. We know that, for example, in my constituency, only

:39:11.:39:14.

one household, and there ard 80 000 electoral was in the constituency,

:39:15.:39:17.

only one household had been helped by the Government incentive scheme

:39:18.:39:23.

called help to buy, and that gives you an indication of how difficult

:39:24.:39:27.

it is to get onto the housing ladder. Therefore, more people are

:39:28.:39:30.

saving up in the hope that one day they may own a home. It is so

:39:31.:39:35.

important we had high quality private rented homes. We know that

:39:36.:39:39.

most landlords are actually very good. Most want to look aftdr their

:39:40.:39:44.

tenants and want to be best practice. However, unfortun`tely,

:39:45.:39:47.

due to the high demand for privately rented homes, and due to thd fact

:39:48.:39:52.

that people just want to live near to where they work, sometimds the

:39:53.:39:58.

standards have dropped and sometimes people are actually afraid to raise

:39:59.:40:02.

poor quality homes with thehr landlord for fear of being dvicted.

:40:03.:40:06.

I have even heard some storhes of tenants queueing up with baked goods

:40:07.:40:12.

for landlords and saying, please can I be your tenants? With such a huge

:40:13.:40:17.

demand for certain propertids, therefore the landlord does not

:40:18.:40:20.

really... There is no huge hncentive for him or her to provide that home

:40:21.:40:25.

because he may even get cakds and not have to fix the plumbing or

:40:26.:40:28.

anything else, but we know that we want to be ambitious for our

:40:29.:40:31.

communities and have that hhgh quality of homes. So very briefly,

:40:32.:40:36.

if I could just emphasise the need for local authorities to have their

:40:37.:40:43.

funding ring-fenced around this quality of the privately rented

:40:44.:40:47.

sector, I think it is also hncumbent that it is about preventing

:40:48.:40:50.

homelessness. We know it local authorities have a duty to prevent

:40:51.:40:53.

homelessness, therefore thex should be having an eye to this but quite

:40:54.:41:01.

rightly, there is a lack -- they do claim a lack of funding, thdrefore

:41:02.:41:03.

we should ring-fenced funding in high quality homes, particularly

:41:04.:41:09.

where we know up to 40% of families are living in the private rdnted

:41:10.:41:13.

sector. My particular bugbe`r around this is where housing benefht is

:41:14.:41:18.

either wholly paid or had p`id with rent because I do feel... It is not

:41:19.:41:26.

fair that the state is subshdising landlords weather conditions are not

:41:27.:41:29.

good and I think it is one thing for people to be paying out of their own

:41:30.:41:35.

pocket, thinking, I maybe whll not try to demand better condithons but

:41:36.:41:43.

as the state is subsidising landlords, we need to be more

:41:44.:41:47.

demanding as to the quality of these homes. I wonder if she would join me

:41:48.:41:53.

in hoping that where the tenant is also receiving housing benefit, the

:41:54.:41:57.

landlord will offer a longer lease, because the assured short hold

:41:58.:42:04.

tenancy, where up to 45% of people renting in London in the prhvate

:42:05.:42:11.

sector, is not fit for purpose. I hope she would encourage landlords

:42:12.:42:15.

to offer a family friendly tenancy with longer leases especially in

:42:16.:42:23.

cases where the landlord is -- tenant is receiving housing benefit.

:42:24.:42:28.

He makes a good point. Now that the private rented sector is thd new

:42:29.:42:33.

normal, we need to move tow`rds three or four years. People do not

:42:34.:42:37.

have to accept that long but the six months as a normal is not

:42:38.:42:41.

acceptable. Particularly whdre we know that in places like, for

:42:42.:42:46.

example, the report, you nedd an income of ?75,000 to rent a home for

:42:47.:42:52.

your family, and Finsbury P`rk is not classy. We do need to bd doing

:42:53.:43:00.

much more on that length of tenancy, and I'm sure we will get another

:43:01.:43:04.

bite at the charity tried to put forward that kind of amendmdnt,

:43:05.:43:09.

because I'm not sure that w`s accepted last time we did that, but

:43:10.:43:13.

we would continue to campaign for that because you are quite right to

:43:14.:43:17.

mention it. In the olden daxs we used to talk about the decent homes

:43:18.:43:22.

standard. We talked about khtchens, bathrooms, heating, Securitx,

:43:23.:43:25.

windows and so on. This shotld be the same sort of conditions we talk

:43:26.:43:29.

about in the private rented sector because we all know that thd

:43:30.:43:35.

long-term health impact of ` cold home, for example, and now, firmly

:43:36.:43:39.

enough, in many places, sochal homes have to conditions due to the decent

:43:40.:43:44.

homes standard which was brought in under the Labour Government up until

:43:45.:43:49.

2010, where many tenants ard now living in what is quite accdptable

:43:50.:43:53.

accommodation but private sdctors tenants paying more are livhng in

:43:54.:43:57.

colder homes, and we know that in cold homes there is a greatdr chance

:43:58.:44:01.

of respiratory illness, and increase into Becky Lace 's... In London we

:44:02.:44:06.

should not be seeing increasing cases of Chewbacca laces whhch we

:44:07.:44:15.

are seeing, which are aggravated by -- cases of TB. We know also that

:44:16.:44:22.

the number of days which chhldren miss in school, be that in primary

:44:23.:44:30.

school, secondary school, when they are doing their GCSEs, and dven into

:44:31.:44:34.

the university years, they `re getting respiratory problems that

:44:35.:44:40.

really had them back. They `re affecting our youngsters, ldt alone

:44:41.:44:46.

affecting the health care of our older folk as well. So now H hope we

:44:47.:44:51.

can also include, in what wd are asking authorities to look `t,

:44:52.:44:55.

decent heating systems. I would be very surprised to find homes in the

:44:56.:45:01.

social sector left in the borough of Haringey where there was not a

:45:02.:45:06.

proper heating system, but H have been into homes in the priv`te

:45:07.:45:10.

rented sector where they ard still using poor quality heating systems.

:45:11.:45:15.

This brings me on to the pohnt that my colleague made about the

:45:16.:45:18.

importance of electricity checks and it seems to me obvious that if we

:45:19.:45:27.

have the Corgi standard, whhch every authority knows what that is, we

:45:28.:45:32.

need a new name but a new standard for the electricals. So namds on a

:45:33.:45:35.

postcard to the Deputy Speaker, and we can think of a new name today

:45:36.:45:39.

because what we need is that same standard and that is why we do not

:45:40.:45:45.

have as many accidents from gas because for the last 20 years we

:45:46.:45:48.

have campaigned on that and got into the statutes, got it into the rules

:45:49.:45:54.

and now where we do the samd gas checks, just do electricity as well.

:45:55.:45:58.

It is so basic but we need to make these things part of what wd do

:45:59.:46:03.

Very briefly, on the leaseholder issue, which my colleague and my

:46:04.:46:09.

honourable friend the member for Poplar and Limehouse mentioned, 4.5

:46:10.:46:11.

million people living in le`se properties. Once again, likd the

:46:12.:46:15.

private rented sector, this is the new normal. A third of all residents

:46:16.:46:21.

living in social homes in some of London boroughs are leaseholders,

:46:22.:46:25.

therefore we do need to push towards looking once at some form of

:46:26.:46:30.

regulations around service charges, ground charges and also controlling

:46:31.:46:38.

what the freeholders actually do and the way that they interact with

:46:39.:46:41.

leaseholders. And a number of leaseholders cover all sorts of

:46:42.:46:45.

specific questions by the freeholder really is not making a good

:46:46.:46:49.

landlord, and I think we do need to look towards the leaseholder, and we

:46:50.:46:52.

do need to have some kind of cap on what can be charged where the

:46:53.:46:58.

freeholder is a private enthty and where leaseholders really are at

:46:59.:47:02.

their mercy in terms of rep`irs which are done, unreasonablx high

:47:03.:47:07.

bills, and just general lack of rights, because just having one

:47:08.:47:11.

caseworker for a constituency MP where there are thousands of unhappy

:47:12.:47:14.

leaseholders is just not a good situation to be in. And everyone is

:47:15.:47:21.

laughing because they know what the situation is like for leaseholders.

:47:22.:47:26.

We also know that there are a number of other things which we nedd to

:47:27.:47:31.

move on and I wonder whether we shouldn't have further debate or

:47:32.:47:34.

further time to look at these things because some of these are vdry

:47:35.:47:38.

specific, but we are getting to a point now where both the prhvate

:47:39.:47:41.

rented sector and the leaseholders, we are not talking about sm`ll

:47:42.:47:44.

groups of people any more, we are talking about more and more people

:47:45.:47:48.

because they are not able to afford to buy into the property market and

:47:49.:47:52.

get themselves onto the housing ladder despite all of the

:47:53.:47:56.

announcements, the hard hats and the wonderful fluorescent jackets that

:47:57.:47:59.

politicians wear when they lake announcements about housing. We know

:48:00.:48:04.

that there is a desperate issue around supply. It will not be fixed

:48:05.:48:08.

overnight, and therefore wh`t we can do is improve the conditions of

:48:09.:48:12.

leaseholders. First of all lake sure that the private rented sector is

:48:13.:48:15.

right up there in our minds and in our concerns. You very much. --

:48:16.:48:28.

thank you very much. Would like to thank my honourable friend for her

:48:29.:48:33.

support and I completely agree with the comments she made earlidr. The

:48:34.:48:37.

minister will be pleased to know it is not my intention to put this

:48:38.:48:44.

amendment... But I would sedk assurance from the minister that the

:48:45.:48:50.

issue will be properly addrdssed as has been mentioned privacy by the

:48:51.:48:53.

Government, with the possible change to the law that the Governmdnt will

:48:54.:48:59.

accept. The Bill that the house has been discussing is about hotsing and

:49:00.:49:03.

clearly there has been disctssions about the type of ownership and

:49:04.:49:07.

freehold, leasehold, discussions about tenancies, the privatd sector,

:49:08.:49:11.

the social housing sector. @nd also types of housing, detached houses,

:49:12.:49:18.

terraced houses, flats. We should not forget the mobile home. A

:49:19.:49:22.

surprise number of people actually owned such accommodation. There are

:49:23.:49:28.

many constituencies up and down the country where people own mobile park

:49:29.:49:33.

homes, including in my constituency. At present, under the law as we have

:49:34.:49:38.

it, the site owner can charge commission of up to about 10% on the

:49:39.:49:44.

sale price of such propertids. I think many people, politici`ns and

:49:45.:49:49.

especially mobile park home owners consider this to be grossly unfair

:49:50.:49:55.

and indeed outdated. I do acknowledge that the commission was

:49:56.:49:59.

reduced from 15% to 10%, so there is an acceptance... There is an issue

:50:00.:50:05.

here, but that was back in 0983 We are in a very different world now.

:50:06.:50:14.

It certainly needs reviewing. There charges... They can rack up charges

:50:15.:50:22.

all over the place, it is jtst another opportunity to milk poorer

:50:23.:50:25.

members of the community. An interesting point -- An intdresting

:50:26.:50:31.

point and although I have concentrated on one aspect of mobile

:50:32.:50:35.

homes, I think the review should be across the board. My amendmdnt today

:50:36.:50:42.

is to reduce the commission rate from maximum 10% down to 5%. I do

:50:43.:50:48.

accept that there are counterarguments to this. Shte

:50:49.:50:53.

owners for example would suggest that when they carry out thdir

:50:54.:50:57.

investment calculation is an business model, it is part of that

:50:58.:51:01.

and it can make their busindsses on Bible. They also suggest th`t as a

:51:02.:51:05.

result of taking away this commission, it could see an increase

:51:06.:51:09.

in the cost of the pitch feds or service charge. I'm also aw`re that

:51:10.:51:13.

the Local Government Select Committee in the last Parli`ment

:51:14.:51:17.

looked at this issue and decided that the commission should remain at

:51:18.:51:27.

10%. However, is it right that the site owner should have an increase

:51:28.:51:30.

in value but they haven't actually done anything? There are a number of

:51:31.:51:35.

solutions. We could gradually reduce the percentage for site owndrs to

:51:36.:51:42.

adjust to this in a period over five years. The commission chargd could

:51:43.:51:47.

be restricted to only the dhfference between the original purchase price

:51:48.:51:52.

and the subsequent sale price. Or indeed, following my commitlent a

:51:53.:52:00.

straight reduction from 10% to %. I accept that... But this would

:52:01.:52:06.

reflect the true cost of running a site. Therefore, my amendment is

:52:07.:52:13.

simply to achieve three things. To highlight this issue to the house,

:52:14.:52:18.

to remind ministers that thdre are different points of home ownership

:52:19.:52:22.

and this is one of them, but most importantly of all, what I seek

:52:23.:52:26.

today is a reassurance that the minister will confirm that the

:52:27.:52:30.

Government will properly, comprehensively reviewed mobile park

:52:31.:52:31.

homes in 2070. -- 2017. Can I pick up the words of ly

:52:32.:52:49.

honourable friend from Bromley, and can I tie them to the excellent

:52:50.:52:53.

speech from the member for Poplar and Limehouse? His new clause talks

:52:54.:53:00.

about commonhold. That bill, over 13 years ago, did not work. And I ask

:53:01.:53:05.

the Government to make sure that by the time this bill gets considered

:53:06.:53:09.

in the House of Lords, they will try to put in the simple changes which

:53:10.:53:13.

will make commonhold accesshble even before we get onto the point made,

:53:14.:53:18.

which is to transfer all long leasehold is to commonhold. There is

:53:19.:53:26.

a scandal... Briefly. I am grateful. Would he agree that had comlonhold

:53:27.:53:33.

been part of the conditions for developers, so that all new,build

:53:34.:53:39.

had to be sold first is comlonhold, that in 2002, that would have

:53:40.:53:43.

effected the step change whhch many of us wanted to see at that time?

:53:44.:53:53.

Yes. Each member in this Hotse on average has 9000 residential

:53:54.:53:56.

properties, leasehold properties, in their constituency. In London, over

:53:57.:54:02.

half the homes in the governments drive for more property will be

:54:03.:54:05.

leasehold. They should be commonhold. If people want to know

:54:06.:54:10.

what the scandals are, look back at the speech I made in the Quden's

:54:11.:54:14.

Speech in June 2014 when I listed the kind of things which went on,

:54:15.:54:19.

with the scandals which werd going on. And I make this warning to those

:54:20.:54:26.

who are accumulating bunches of freeholds, thinking they ard going

:54:27.:54:29.

to get an extraordinary rettrn from other charges other than silple

:54:30.:54:33.

ground rent - don't expect that to be left alone by Parliament or by

:54:34.:54:37.

the courts. I think why the time this bill gets into the House of

:54:38.:54:41.

Lords but the proposals on dvent fees can be put into legisl`tion,

:54:42.:54:45.

rather than having to wait two or three years for another bill to come

:54:46.:54:50.

by. And I make this point - any kind of unfair clause should be declared

:54:51.:54:54.

in effective by the propertx chambers, by the High Court, by the

:54:55.:54:57.

Court of Appeal and by the Supreme Court. Because for too long, bad

:54:58.:55:04.

freeholders, sometimes with incompetent managing agents, have

:55:05.:55:07.

exploited leaseholders, whether previously from council homds or in

:55:08.:55:10.

the private sector. And I s`y to McCarthy and Stone, who havd come

:55:11.:55:15.

back and may go for a flotation this year, you try to explain whx it is

:55:16.:55:18.

that so many retirement properties when they come onto the second-hand

:55:19.:55:22.

market are at a far lower v`lue than when first sold? I think solicitors

:55:23.:55:26.

should want their clients what the problem is. If they can solve the

:55:27.:55:34.

problems, McCarthy and Stond can have a better future, and so cannot

:55:35.:55:40.

drum I just wanted to speak briefly to the proposed new clause three. I

:55:41.:55:46.

have some concerns about thhs clause. It is an extremely hmportant

:55:47.:55:53.

issue and one where I think the Government should look to act. Long

:55:54.:55:57.

leases in the residential sdctor have been one of the most

:55:58.:56:02.

established forms of tenure in our country for literally hundrdds of

:56:03.:56:05.

years. I can remember when H was training as a property lawydr,

:56:06.:56:11.

looking at leases by the Grosvenor estate, which were 999 years, I

:56:12.:56:21.

think, their average lease. I remember thinking I would bd long

:56:22.:56:24.

dead before anybody even considers this returning to the freeholder.

:56:25.:56:29.

But I think it is important to note that although there are problems

:56:30.:56:34.

with long leasehold and that form of tenure, a lot of them do tend to be

:56:35.:56:39.

related. In my constituency I see leasehold as a way of protecting

:56:40.:56:42.

areas to stop inappropriate development. I am thinking

:56:43.:56:45.

especially of clauses in thd lease which prevent development of

:56:46.:56:51.

gardens, for example, withott the landlord or the freeholder's

:56:52.:56:55.

consent. I think it is an ilportant form of tenure and one I thhnk which

:56:56.:56:59.

your clause would seek to abolish 2020. I think long leasehold does

:57:00.:57:08.

have advantages, particularly in the area of estate management where I

:57:09.:57:16.

have many experience. I havd helped to set up many estates which are

:57:17.:57:20.

being run for the benefit of the tenant and which have some hmportant

:57:21.:57:24.

cost sharing measures in terms of things like estate roads and

:57:25.:57:28.

maintenance of the outside of the building, which I think it hs very,

:57:29.:57:31.

very important that we presdrve in any changes that we look to make in

:57:32.:57:36.

this important and historic form of tenure. That said, the spirht of the

:57:37.:57:40.

amendment is actually talking I think about where those est`tes do

:57:41.:57:45.

exist, with service charges and went to charges, what more can the

:57:46.:57:49.

Government do to make sure that the interests of tenants are protected?

:57:50.:57:53.

I think this is a very important area which I hope can be explored in

:57:54.:57:59.

more detail in the years to come. In the secular, with leasehold

:58:00.:58:04.

properties, off on the management company no longer exists, and this

:58:05.:58:09.

is a big issue on housing estates. I can think of one in my constituency,

:58:10.:58:15.

which was severely flooded on Boxing Day, where the road attaching to

:58:16.:58:19.

that housing estate has now been passed to a freehold companx, who

:58:20.:58:25.

will not, despite the tenants living there, and the people being more

:58:26.:58:27.

than prepared to contribute to the maintenance of that road, btt it

:58:28.:58:34.

cannot be maintained, and I think this is an area where the Government

:58:35.:58:38.

should look to act, where tdnants want to take on management of the

:58:39.:58:50.

estate. And also specific provisions where the landlord's interest might

:58:51.:58:54.

have been taken away. It is a complicated area of law. Not one

:58:55.:58:58.

which I think can be solved by his amendment, which I would not

:58:59.:59:01.

support, but one which I thhnk is worthwhile the Government coming

:59:02.:59:05.

forward with proposals on bdcause it is an important area. On thd issue

:59:06.:59:09.

of commonhold, I remember working in a law firm when the commonhold

:59:10.:59:13.

proposals came forward from the then Labour government and having lots of

:59:14.:59:17.

seminars on it and being tatght by people about how this was going to

:59:18.:59:21.

change property law. It nevdr really happened. Nobody ever reallx

:59:22.:59:26.

embraced commonhold. My view is that this is not because we did not tie

:59:27.:59:32.

it to any compunction on development, but that actually it

:59:33.:59:39.

sought to solve problems whhch often did not really exist. I think a much

:59:40.:59:43.

better route for dealing with the problems of long leasehold would be

:59:44.:59:48.

to actually give the tenants real rights and powers against a

:59:49.:59:51.

freeholder, rather than looking at creating an entire new tenure. I am

:59:52.:00:04.

grateful. I recall, because I was sponsoring the drive for le`sehold

:00:05.:00:10.

reform act that stage, and simply giving tenants rights against the

:00:11.:00:15.

freeholder, in situations where there is a head leaseholder who is

:00:16.:00:21.

putting through those viciots service charges, completely and

:00:22.:00:26.

called for services, charging rates for administering legal letters out

:00:27.:00:33.

to people, I do not really feel that that is a solution. But I do commend

:00:34.:00:38.

my honourable and for putting forward this amendment. I think it

:00:39.:00:41.

is absolutely vital that thd Government take this seriously.

:00:42.:00:45.

There has always been a cross-party consensus here that something needs

:00:46.:00:48.

to be done, and I think it hs high time that the government did. I

:00:49.:00:54.

thank the honourable gentlelan for that intervention, although I would

:00:55.:00:58.

like to disagree with him at length, but I think the time will not allow

:00:59.:01:02.

it. But briefly, when we do deal with leaseholders and tenurd, it

:01:03.:01:07.

does solve some problems whhch I do not think can be solved by

:01:08.:01:11.

commonhold. Like the flying freehold, for example. But whatever

:01:12.:01:18.

the eggs answer is, if we create a new form of tenure, and we dxpect

:01:19.:01:22.

commonhold to be part of th`t, we need to make sure that mortgage

:01:23.:01:26.

companies are happy with it. I have seen lots of properties with a

:01:27.:01:29.

market value of zero becausd there is a problem with things like flying

:01:30.:01:35.

freehold. Finally, some comlents towards the electoral safetx --

:01:36.:01:42.

electrical safety certificate. I think in terms of ensuring that

:01:43.:01:47.

landlords do prioritise electrical safety, I think it is good for the

:01:48.:01:50.

Government to seek ways in which to do that. I do not agree with the

:01:51.:02:00.

provisions of the clause, particularly in relation to clause

:02:01.:02:07.

two, which I believe would dnd up having a landlord having to provide

:02:08.:02:11.

a certificate every 12 months. I think this is too owner was. I think

:02:12.:02:16.

a longer period should be proposed. Also, while it is very important

:02:17.:02:19.

that landlords take electrical safety very seriously, I thhnk we

:02:20.:02:23.

should also be looking at gdtting owner occupiers to take electrical

:02:24.:02:29.

safety more seriously. I relember the House I was brought up hn, we

:02:30.:02:34.

have lived there for 35 years and when you put the light on to go into

:02:35.:02:38.

the Seller, it would flip on and off. My parents were amazed when the

:02:39.:02:42.

people who bought the House from them said the House needed rewiring.

:02:43.:02:47.

So, anything which would encourage people to look at their own home

:02:48.:02:53.

would be advisable. Although I do not think it is necessary to have

:02:54.:02:57.

primary legislation. I know that often estate agents insist that

:02:58.:03:02.

landlords provide an electrhcal safety certificate. I know that from

:03:03.:03:08.

properties that I let. If you have a proper buy to let commercial

:03:09.:03:11.

insurance policy, they will insist that a landlord has up-to-d`te

:03:12.:03:16.

electrical safety certificates. And finally I would reiterate mx call

:03:17.:03:23.

from the government to push forward with the excellent family friendly

:03:24.:03:27.

tenancy, which is sat there waiting for government ministers to embrace

:03:28.:03:28.

it. Due to the time that we havd, I will

:03:29.:03:47.

move straight to amendments made by honourable colleagues. Firstly, I

:03:48.:03:53.

turn to the amendments put by the member for Poplar and Limehouse I

:03:54.:03:59.

recognise the honourable melbers comments and those of my honourable

:04:00.:04:01.

friend for Worthing West on the benefits of commonhold tenure.

:04:02.:04:06.

However there are important differences compared with ldasehold.

:04:07.:04:11.

For example there is a diffdrent statutory framework of rights and

:04:12.:04:16.

protections. I think my honourable friend for Rossendale and Star

:04:17.:04:19.

eloquently explained his experience of some of the issues around this.

:04:20.:04:27.

That is partly why commonhold was intended to be an alternative to

:04:28.:04:31.

long leasehold ownership. Wd believe it should remain so, without forcing

:04:32.:04:35.

commonhold on those who may not wish it. I hear what the honourable

:04:36.:04:41.

gentleman has said. I know this is something which he has disctssed

:04:42.:04:44.

with the Housing and Planning Minister. It is something the

:04:45.:04:50.

minister will keep under review And he will continue that dialogue with

:04:51.:04:54.

the honourable member and whth my honourable friend. Whilst I

:04:55.:05:01.

understand the arguments put forward in new Clause IV, I do not believe

:05:02.:05:05.

it to be necessary. It would conflict with the deregulatory

:05:06.:05:09.

clauses which were read for a second time last week. People may refer

:05:10.:05:21.

complaints to the Housing olbudsman, for example, who may raise specific

:05:22.:05:28.

concerns with the regulator, who has the power to initiate a statutory

:05:29.:05:33.

inquiry. This can lead to interventions or to forced lergers

:05:34.:05:37.

or takeovers, where the boards are not fit for purpose. I will need to

:05:38.:05:44.

make progress. I am glad to say that the regulator really needs to use

:05:45.:05:48.

such powers. Turning to my honourable friend for Carlisle's new

:05:49.:05:53.

clause 42 - I can understand why he has raised this issue regarding

:05:54.:06:00.

mobile home owners and 10% commission on the sale of their

:06:01.:06:05.

home. As members have raised, commission is one legitimatd income

:06:06.:06:11.

stream for park home businesses If it was reduced or abolished, there

:06:12.:06:14.

would need to be a compensatory increase in pitch fees to cover the

:06:15.:06:19.

shortfall in income, a move which many park home residents I `m sure

:06:20.:06:24.

would not support. Following its inquiry into the park home sector in

:06:25.:06:33.

2012, the select committee recommended that the right of site

:06:34.:06:37.

owners to receive up to 10% commission from the sale of a home

:06:38.:06:40.

should remain in place. The coalition government agreed with the

:06:41.:06:44.

finding of the select committee and the governments view remains

:06:45.:06:47.

unchanged. That said, the mobile homes act 2013 introduced

:06:48.:06:52.

substantial change to the sdctor. It is important that these new measures

:06:53.:06:58.

are given time to have an ilpact. We will therefore review the

:06:59.:07:01.

effectiveness in relation to this legislation in 2017. I can reassure

:07:02.:07:06.

colleagues that a working grip is already in place in this respect and

:07:07.:07:11.

we await their recommendation. I am sure right honourable friends will

:07:12.:07:15.

await those recommendations with bated breath. I want to turn to the

:07:16.:07:23.

amendments laid by the opposition front bench. New clause 52 would

:07:24.:07:28.

result in a new regulatory cost to landlords which would push tp wents

:07:29.:07:35.

for tenants. Of course we bdlieve all homes should be of a decent

:07:36.:07:37.

standard and all tenants should have a safe place to live. But local

:07:38.:07:42.

authorities already have strong and effective powers to deal with poor

:07:43.:07:45.

quality and safe accommodathon. And we expect them to use them. The

:07:46.:07:52.

honourable lady will know that we debated extensively new clatse 3 at

:07:53.:07:58.

committee, when I confirm that the Government would carry out the

:07:59.:08:00.

necessary research to understand what if any amendments were needed

:08:01.:08:06.

in the private sector. On that basis, the amendment was withdrawn.

:08:07.:08:12.

To update the honourable lady, officials are now undertaking

:08:13.:08:17.

research and have spoken already to Shelter and Electrical First in

:08:18.:08:23.

respect of that amendment. H do not want to cover any further ground on

:08:24.:08:24.

that. I understand where the honotrable

:08:25.:08:35.

lady is coming from with regard new clause 50 four. Local housing

:08:36.:08:39.

authorities have the power to apply additional licensing schemes to

:08:40.:08:44.

cover smaller HMOs. We issudd a paper recently seeking views on

:08:45.:08:48.

whether licences should be dxtended to smaller homes. We hope to publish

:08:49.:08:52.

a response in the spring and I do not want to pre-empt that bx

:08:53.:08:58.

amending the Bill at this point Similarly, on 99, local authorities

:08:59.:09:01.

are already required to havd access to a range of factors when deciding

:09:02.:09:06.

whether to grant a licence, including whether the law h`s been

:09:07.:09:12.

contravened related to houshng. This will include all offences ldading to

:09:13.:09:17.

inclusion in the database. With regard to new clause 47, led by my

:09:18.:09:23.

honourable friend for Bromldy and Chislehurst, I would like to thank

:09:24.:09:27.

him for bringing these mattdrs to the attention of the House. I know

:09:28.:09:33.

that he has raised these issues on a number of occasions and has had

:09:34.:09:36.

discussion with my honourable friend the Housing and Planning Minister,

:09:37.:09:42.

who I know is considering what he says extremely carefully. And my

:09:43.:09:46.

honourable friend is due to meet, as I understand he is due to mdet with

:09:47.:09:57.

my honourable friend from the Landowners' Association. And given

:09:58.:10:03.

his will to listen to him, H hope that my honourable friend whll

:10:04.:10:07.

consider... Yes, I will givd weight. I'm grateful for the response but of

:10:08.:10:12.

course I will withdraw the amendments on that basis. Then we

:10:13.:10:18.

can have a constructive, is it going forward. In that spirit, I `m

:10:19.:10:22.

exclude me glad to hear, and I'm sure Mike honourable friend for

:10:23.:10:25.

Great Yarmouth will continud to work with my honourable friend as he has

:10:26.:10:33.

undertaken to do. Mr Speaker, in bringing this report today to a

:10:34.:10:40.

close, I would like to say ht has been eight pleasure to support the

:10:41.:10:42.

minister for planning and housing in helping the House scrutinisd the

:10:43.:10:47.

bill and the plans we have lade to improve it. I trust the House will

:10:48.:10:52.

look favourably on on the rdmaining amendments this afternoon and not

:10:53.:11:01.

push the amendments to a division. The question is that Governlent new

:11:02.:11:07.

clause 60 to be read a second time. As many as are of that opinhon, say

:11:08.:11:10.

"aye". To the contrary, "no".. The ayes have it. The question hs that

:11:11.:11:15.

Government new clause 62 be added to the bill. As many as are of that

:11:16.:11:18.

opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". I think the ayes have it. Mr

:11:19.:11:24.

Blackman Woods to move new clause 52. Move formally. Thank yot. The

:11:25.:11:33.

question is that new clause 50 to be read a second time. As many as are

:11:34.:11:36.

of that opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". No! Clear the lobby.

:11:37.:14:15.

The question is that new cl`use 50 to be read a second time. As many as

:14:16.:14:21.

are of that opinion, say "axe". To the contrary, "no". Tellers for the

:14:22.:14:29.

ayes. Judith Cummings and Ste Haim and. Tellers for the noes, Sarah

:14:30.:14:33.

Newton and Simon Kirby. Order, order. The Ayes to the right,

:14:34.:25:59.

219, the Noes to the left, 312. The Ayes to the right, 219, the Noes to

:26:00.:26:06.

the left, 312, so the Noes have it, the noes have it. Armlock. ,-

:26:07.:26:15.

unlock. With the leave of the House I will put the questions on

:26:16.:26:18.

government amendments 27-30 together. The minister to move the

:26:19.:26:23.

said amendments formally. The question is that government

:26:24.:26:31.

amendments 27-30 be made. As many as are of that opinion say aye,

:26:32.:26:35.

contrary no, the Ayes have ht, the Ayes have it. Consideration

:26:36.:26:44.

completed, I will now suspend the House for about five minutes in

:26:45.:26:49.

order to make a decision about certification. The division bells

:26:50.:26:52.

will be wrong to minutes before the House resumes. Following my

:26:53.:26:59.

certification, the government will be tabling the appropriate consent

:27:00.:27:04.

motions, copies of which will be available shortly in the vote office

:27:05.:27:09.

and will be distributed by doorkeepers. Order. The House is now

:27:10.:27:13.

suspended. During this, the details of the

:27:14.:28:20.

bill, the Commons Speaker considers replying to this, and these are

:28:21.:28:25.

decided on by just English `nd Welsh MPs. The reason why the House has to

:28:26.:28:31.

be suspended is the Speaker is dealing the necessary certification

:28:32.:28:36.

for the state of the bill and when the Commons returns it will be just

:28:37.:28:39.

a leash and Welsh MPs who whll be voting. MPs from other parts in the

:28:40.:28:45.

UK, Scotland and Northern Ireland, will not be able to vote but can

:28:46.:28:49.

still take part in the debate. Do join me at 11 o'clock tonight for a

:28:50.:28:51.

full report on what happened. Could front of a House that I've

:28:52.:34:27.

completed the standing order and have made no change to the

:34:28.:34:31.

provisional certificate issted yesterday evening. Copies of my

:34:32.:34:36.

final certificate will be m`de available in the vote officd and on

:34:37.:34:40.

the Parliamentary website. Understanding order number 80 3M,

:34:41.:34:45.

consent motions are therefore required for the bill to proceed.

:34:46.:34:51.

Copies of the motions are available in the vote office and on the

:34:52.:34:55.

Parliamentary website and h`ve been made available to members in the

:34:56.:35:02.

Chamber. Does the Minister hntend to move the consent motions? Yds.

:35:03.:35:20.

LAUGHTER. Always happy to hdar the voice of the Minister but a nod will

:35:21.:35:27.

suffice. The House must forthwith resolve itself into the leghslative

:35:28.:35:33.

grand committee England and Wales and, thereafter, into the

:35:34.:35:40.

legislative grand committee England. Order, order.

:35:41.:35:57.

Order, order! There will now be a joint debate on the consent motion

:35:58.:36:07.

for England and Wales and the consent motion for England. I will

:36:08.:36:13.

remind Honorourable Members that, although all members may spdak in

:36:14.:36:21.

the debate, if there are divisions, only members representing

:36:22.:36:22.

constituencies in England and Wales may vote on the consent mothon for

:36:23.:36:31.

England and Wales and only lembers representing constituencies in

:36:32.:36:34.

England may vote on the consent motion for England. I call the

:36:35.:36:40.

Minister to move the consent motion for England and Wales and I remind

:36:41.:36:50.

the Minister that understanding order number 83(m), he must also

:36:51.:36:55.

inform the committee of the terms of the consent motion for Engl`nd.

:36:56.:37:08.

Thank you, Madam Chairman. H think it is clear the importance of what

:37:09.:37:11.

we're doing today from the fact that you can see so many of My Honourable

:37:12.:37:15.

Friend 's here for this opportunity to deliver on a manifesto pledge.

:37:16.:37:19.

The members of the Labour P`rty do not see it to be so important to do

:37:20.:37:24.

what is right for our country and constitution. I beg to move the

:37:25.:37:28.

motion in the name of my Right Honourable Friend the member for

:37:29.:37:32.

Tunbridge Wells, the Secret`ry of State for Communities and Local

:37:33.:37:38.

Government. I am also inquired to inform the committee that I intend

:37:39.:37:42.

to move a further consent motion raised to England at the end of this

:37:43.:37:46.

debate. I will address both consent motions now. I would like to draw

:37:47.:37:50.

the attention of the committee to my written in a studio statement of

:37:51.:37:53.

seventh January. This inforled the House that I placed my department's

:37:54.:38:04.

analysis on standing order number 83(m). I placed this in the library.

:38:05.:38:06.

I will give way. Since so many of the clauses in this

:38:07.:38:16.

bill have been designated as applying exclusively to England or

:38:17.:38:20.

indeed England and Wales, could the secretary of state help the house

:38:21.:38:23.

and those members who are excluded from the boat, if there is one on

:38:24.:38:27.

this consent motion, that hd has evidence that not a single person

:38:28.:38:32.

from Northern Ireland is a landlord in England and Wales and thdrefore

:38:33.:38:35.

have no particular interest in this bill? I will come to that point

:38:36.:38:41.

specifically in a few moments and I would of a slow point out where she

:38:42.:38:46.

and other members could comd and speak at the second reading and the

:38:47.:38:49.

report stage last week throtgh to the early hours and this afternoon

:38:50.:38:55.

when we touched on that point. I would like to begin by setthng out

:38:56.:39:01.

my thanks to Mr Speaker for his careful consideration and

:39:02.:39:04.

certification of this bill. I also want to pay tribute to the work of

:39:05.:39:09.

my honourable friend the deputy leader of the house and members of

:39:10.:39:12.

the procedure committee for getting us to this historic inaugur`l

:39:13.:39:15.

legislative brand committee. And I would also like to put my thanks on

:39:16.:39:19.

record to the clerks of the house for their as ever excellent service

:39:20.:39:25.

and advice to Mr Speaker and to my department. Many of us on these

:39:26.:39:31.

benches will come some modest justice for England at last. We

:39:32.:39:36.

welcome the fact that at a time when Scotland is being given so lany

:39:37.:39:39.

powers of self government wd now have a small voice and a vote. I

:39:40.:39:44.

encourage the minister to go further and make sure we have justice over

:39:45.:39:49.

money and justice over lawm`king for England to have a happy union. My

:39:50.:39:55.

honourable friend as ever tdmpt me to go a little bit beyond the

:39:56.:39:59.

housing and planning Bill btt I do understand the point he makds. The

:40:00.:40:03.

history of this house and the history we all now goes before just

:40:04.:40:07.

means it's quite rare for us to see a true first in this house. I'm very

:40:08.:40:12.

proud to be the First Minister to stand at this dispatch box,

:40:13.:40:15.

addressing the very first legislative gland committees of

:40:16.:40:18.

England and Wales and of England only. As my right honourabld friend

:40:19.:40:23.

the leader of the house notdd when he opened the debate on standing

:40:24.:40:28.

order number 83 L back in October, the process we now follow h`s

:40:29.:40:31.

created fairer parliaments `nd fairer assemblies giving thd

:40:32.:40:35.

English, as my right honour`ble friend just outlined, a strong voice

:40:36.:40:40.

on English matters without dxcluding MPs from other parts of the United

:40:41.:40:43.

Kingdom from participation hn this house. The purpose of the

:40:44.:40:50.

legislation is to allow English and Welsh MPs to either consent or veto

:40:51.:40:54.

the clauses and amendments lade to the bill. I will not detail the

:40:55.:40:59.

territorial extent that the Germans and an clause, again drawing

:41:00.:41:05.

attention to my written minhsterial statement of the 7th of Jantary

:41:06.:41:09.

When we discussed the princhple of English votes for English l`ws in

:41:10.:41:12.

this house we heard fears it would or could create a class system

:41:13.:41:17.

within this chamber. As the First Minister to lead a bill through this

:41:18.:41:22.

process I am happy to report that has not been my experience. The

:41:23.:41:26.

debates in public bill commhttee and report stage clearly demonstrate the

:41:27.:41:29.

majority of members of Parlhament support the measures in this bill.

:41:30.:41:33.

For example although we did not have the pleasure of their company in the

:41:34.:41:37.

public bill committee the honourable member for Kilmarnock and for

:41:38.:41:42.

Glasgow Central insured that constituents in Scotland were

:41:43.:41:46.

represented during the debate both at second reading and indeed at

:41:47.:41:51.

report stage. As well as thd questions over territorial dxtent of

:41:52.:41:54.

our new duty on public sector organisations to dispose of land we

:41:55.:41:59.

have also discussed applications of landlords or housing associ`tions

:42:00.:42:02.

who may have properties in devolved Administration 's as well as in

:42:03.:42:08.

England. My department is responsible for local authorities,

:42:09.:42:11.

communities and housing is `ll seasons in England, in many ways we

:42:12.:42:15.

are the Department for Engl`nd. It is therefore fitting that the

:42:16.:42:19.

majority of clauses in Mr Speaker's certification for this very first

:42:20.:42:23.

committee relates to England only. Thanks to members on both shdes of

:42:24.:42:28.

the house, both sides of thd chamber, I am satisfied that the

:42:29.:42:31.

house is considered the bills applications for the whole of our

:42:32.:42:34.

United Kingdom. I am grateftl for giving way, he as pointed ott that

:42:35.:42:40.

this bill relates to England only, does he agree with me and c`n I put

:42:41.:42:44.

on record that it is absolutely right that only English MPs who

:42:45.:42:48.

should be voting for it, as one of those who will be excluded H applaud

:42:49.:42:53.

those English MPs who have decided that their constituencies should not

:42:54.:42:57.

have outcome is affected by those coming from Scotland, Wales and

:42:58.:43:02.

elsewhere in the United Kingdom My friend makes a good point. There are

:43:03.:43:07.

some parts which cover across into Wales and we will deal with that

:43:08.:43:12.

separately this afternoon. Ly noble friend Baroness Williams will

:43:13.:43:15.

continue to ensure that any cross-border issues are cardfully

:43:16.:43:19.

considered also in the other place. This is a historic bell in lany

:43:20.:43:23.

ways, it will put homeownership with a grasp of generations who have only

:43:24.:43:27.

dream being impossible for lany years and it will deliver a system

:43:28.:43:32.

to be the envy of the world. It will get Britain building again. By being

:43:33.:43:35.

the first bill through this procedure we go further. I `m proud

:43:36.:43:40.

of the steps this elected government is taking through this legislation

:43:41.:43:44.

to deliver our manifesto commitments. I am also proud of the

:43:45.:43:50.

steps... On manifesto commitments, will he confirm that the reloval of

:43:51.:43:56.

secure tenancies from counchl tenants was not in the Consdrvative

:43:57.:44:01.

manifesto and the government has no mandate in order to introduce that

:44:02.:44:04.

abolition of secure tenancids and therefore, for council tenants, they

:44:05.:44:09.

were not warned by the Consdrvatives that this is something they were

:44:10.:44:15.

going to impose? I had to s`y that we have had this debate through the

:44:16.:44:18.

committee stage and earlier today at report stage but what I would say is

:44:19.:44:22.

he should look carefully at the bill which does deliver the manifesto

:44:23.:44:25.

commitments and will deliver homeownership to a whole new

:44:26.:44:29.

generation of people. It will also ensure we extend homeownership to

:44:30.:44:34.

1.3 million people who have been locked out of it before, both of

:44:35.:44:37.

which are issues his party opposite have fought to prevent at every

:44:38.:44:40.

opportunity, and I think disgracefully so. I am not taking

:44:41.:44:45.

any more interventions. I al proud of the steps this government has

:44:46.:44:50.

taken to bring fairness to the devilish and -- devolution

:44:51.:44:55.

settlement. I would ask the committee to consent to the motions

:44:56.:44:58.

to the certified clauses and schedules of the housing and

:44:59.:45:01.

planning Bill and certified amendments made by the housd to the

:45:02.:45:09.

bell. Thank you. The question is, at the consent motion relating to

:45:10.:45:12.

England and Wales as on the notice paper. John Healey. Not John Healey.

:45:13.:45:23.

LAUGHTER I beg the honourable gentlelan s

:45:24.:45:29.

pardon. Pete Wishart. Madam Deputy Speaker I am grateful, so, so, this

:45:30.:45:37.

is what an English parliament looks like. It looks pretty much like the

:45:38.:45:44.

unitary UK Parliament to me. Madam did they Speaker, this is a

:45:45.:45:53.

remarkable day. I think it's worth noting the significance of how

:45:54.:45:59.

historical this is because for the first time in the history of this

:46:00.:46:04.

house, of this Parliament, lembers of Parliament will be banned from

:46:05.:46:08.

participating in divisions of this house based on nationality `nd

:46:09.:46:17.

geographic location of constituency. The honourable member's constituents

:46:18.:46:21.

in Perth and North Pilcher who may well have voted for him surdly see

:46:22.:46:25.

this as a very fair motion to safeguard the United Kingdol by

:46:26.:46:36.

having a fair... The honour`ble gentleman tempts me and I whll say a

:46:37.:46:41.

couple of things, one thing, I was elected on the same basis as this

:46:42.:46:44.

honourable gentleman, my constituents expect me to p`ss to

:46:45.:46:49.

pay in debates and legislathon in this house -- participate. H am now

:46:50.:46:53.

denied that. The second thing I would say to the honourable

:46:54.:46:57.

gentleman, if he thinks that going down such a route as this where

:46:58.:47:02.

Scottish members of Parliamdnt are banned from voting on certahn issues

:47:03.:47:07.

considered English only is going to save his union, he is going to have

:47:08.:47:13.

another thought coming becatse nothing, nothing Madam Deputy

:47:14.:47:17.

Speaker has infuriated the Scottish people more than the measurds around

:47:18.:47:21.

English votes for English l`ws and how can I resist the honour`ble

:47:22.:47:26.

gentleman? Can he just tell me if he is such a passionate believdr in as

:47:27.:47:30.

settling everything together why I am not allowed to express otr view

:47:31.:47:34.

let alone a vote on local government health and education in his

:47:35.:47:41.

constituency? The honourabld gentleman just does not unddrstand

:47:42.:47:44.

and I will try to explain p`tiently once again, we live in the Tnited

:47:45.:47:53.

Kingdom, there is asymmetric devolution and we have a parliament

:47:54.:47:56.

in Scotland which determines and decides the very issues... Order!

:47:57.:48:01.

Order! The honourable gentldman is a member of this house and has a right

:48:02.:48:07.

to be heard, he will be heard. Pete Wishart. Thank you, I didn't know if

:48:08.:48:11.

I was a member of the house or an international observer! Thank you,

:48:12.:48:18.

can I say, we have a parlialent in Scotland which determines and

:48:19.:48:22.

decides these things and we do that in Scotland. We do these thhngs in

:48:23.:48:26.

this house as well but what the honourable gentleman wants `nd what

:48:27.:48:29.

has been created to date is a cause I English parliament within the

:48:30.:48:33.

confines of the unitary parliament of the night kingdom and Northern

:48:34.:48:38.

Ireland and that is the nub of the issue and that is why this hs so

:48:39.:48:41.

significant and so remarkable, the first meeting am I will givd way of

:48:42.:48:49.

course. I am grateful, may H remind him that what we had before today is

:48:50.:48:54.

at consent mechanism, that hs for members of England and Engl`nd and

:48:55.:48:57.

Wales to agree to measures which apply only with us. At third reading

:48:58.:49:02.

if there is something in thd Bill which he fundamentally disagrees

:49:03.:49:05.

with you or have a vote to vote against it. Can I tell you what it

:49:06.:49:11.

feels like to ask? What it feels like to me and my right honourable

:49:12.:49:16.

friends is that we are on the wrong side of banishment. The bar. It

:49:17.:49:22.

denies us the right and our right as legitimately elected members of

:49:23.:49:26.

Parliament to participating fully in this house. This is the key of the

:49:27.:49:33.

issue, that they still fail to grasp. What they have done to date

:49:34.:49:38.

to the creation of this comlittee is create two members of Parli`ment in

:49:39.:49:42.

this house. That is the thing we object to, that is the issud which

:49:43.:49:46.

is difficult for us. I will give way. I am very grateful. Thhs side

:49:47.:49:52.

of the house finding its handkerchiefs to mop its te`rs. Can

:49:53.:49:57.

I ask why it is he and his party if they are so passionate about this

:49:58.:50:02.

work no votes from SNP membdrs on the second reading or at report

:50:03.:50:09.

stage? We don't have any grdat interest in this particular bill.

:50:10.:50:17.

LAUGHTER I don't know why that comes a

:50:18.:50:20.

surprise to the honourable gentleman and I will say it again, we have no

:50:21.:50:26.

great interest in this parthcular bill and the honourable gentleman is

:50:27.:50:31.

right, he is right. The honourable gentleman is absolutely right, we

:50:32.:50:34.

did not vote in second readhng or in any of the proceedings we wdre

:50:35.:50:39.

allowed to participate in bdcause we respect the right of English members

:50:40.:50:42.

of Parliament to determine hssues on this basis. Of course that hs the

:50:43.:50:46.

right and that is why we took no interest, I am not giving w`y again,

:50:47.:50:52.

that is why we stayed away. What this piece of legislation does, the

:50:53.:50:59.

creation of this committee, again, I am astounded that honourabld members

:51:00.:51:03.

opposite do not understand or get this. What you have done, what

:51:04.:51:09.

honourable members have dond is create two classes of members of

:51:10.:51:13.

Parliament of this house. There is one class that is able and has the

:51:14.:51:18.

ability to participate in every division of this house and there are

:51:19.:51:22.

other members of Parliament like my honourable friend behind me who are

:51:23.:51:32.

not able to participate will. Even if I wanted to have a say in this

:51:33.:51:35.

legislation I would be barrdd from doing so, I'm not allowed to vote on

:51:36.:51:40.

this. I am not allowed to c`ll division. If I tempted to do so you

:51:41.:51:46.

would quite rightly ruled md out of order. If I was to vote I h`ve no

:51:47.:51:51.

idea what would happen, I al puzzlingly Serjeant of arms will

:51:52.:51:54.

come chasing after me with his little sword telling me I c`nnot

:51:55.:51:57.

participate and chase me out and that is what he should do. That is

:51:58.:52:01.

what the job of the Serjeant of arms should be. I thank the honotrable

:52:02.:52:09.

gentleman forgiving way, yot know I have a great deal of respect for him

:52:10.:52:12.

but he has talked about how this feels to him and his colleagues can

:52:13.:52:17.

I say how it has built for ly constituents in South Devon? That is

:52:18.:52:21.

that a historic injustice h`s been rated today and I would just put

:52:22.:52:24.

that to him, that they feel they have been underrepresented `nd it's

:52:25.:52:27.

about our are not ourselves. Here is something for the Honourable

:52:28.:52:37.

Lady, whom I have much respdct for, to consider. If we all have the same

:52:38.:52:44.

rights and privileges in thhs House of Commons, and the Honourable Lady

:52:45.:52:48.

and all her friends, who fedl strongly about this, and I

:52:49.:52:51.

understand the passion that this engenders for English members of

:52:52.:52:57.

Parliament, how about they come into Parliament, and design a Parliament

:52:58.:53:00.

in your own image where you could look after these issues likd we do

:53:01.:53:03.

in the Scottish Parliament, why not have a Parliament that sits not

:53:04.:53:07.

necessarily in this House btt in one of the other great cities in the UK

:53:08.:53:10.

where democracy could be sedn in action, then we come back together

:53:11.:53:16.

in this House as equal membdrs and consider the great reserved issues

:53:17.:53:21.

of foreign affairs and defence. That is how most other nations do it It

:53:22.:53:26.

is called federalism and it seems to work adequately in most othdr

:53:27.:53:30.

nations. What these Honorourable Members have done today is create

:53:31.:53:37.

this absolute mess that nobody even understands how a particular the

:53:38.:53:40.

works. We have just called division bells to suspend proceedings of this

:53:41.:53:44.

House for the Speaker to sctrry off and consult with the clerks of the

:53:45.:53:49.

House to recertify and see hf business is very to recertify

:53:50.:53:52.

certain pieces of legislation. This is what has happened to the business

:53:53.:53:57.

of this, this great Parliamdnt, within the union. I will give it

:53:58.:54:02.

away again to My Honourable Friend whom I like very much. I'm grateful

:54:03.:54:06.

to the honourable gentleman for giving way but he has got it

:54:07.:54:09.

fundamentally wrong. The two tiers of Parma have not entreated by the

:54:10.:54:14.

mechanism used. By using st`nding orders, which can be changed by all

:54:15.:54:18.

members up Parliament and bx this being a grand committee, not, and we

:54:19.:54:25.

see where the Mace is, and not the House sitting in full session, the

:54:26.:54:29.

rights of every individual lember remain intact, and that is crucially

:54:30.:54:35.

important. Again, I have to say to the honourable gentleman, it is not

:54:36.:54:38.

what it feels like from this site. What we are observing and

:54:39.:54:43.

experiencing when a division is called is that he will be able to

:54:44.:54:47.

vote from that position, he will be able to express his view as a

:54:48.:54:53.

legitimate need elected member of Parliament and other regiments that

:54:54.:55:00.

the elected members will be barred, we will be effectively banished from

:55:01.:55:03.

that process. -- other legitimately elected members. Would the

:55:04.:55:07.

honourable gentleman really expect that the taxpayers of this country

:55:08.:55:13.

are supposed to pay for this other Parliament he wishes to cre`te

:55:14.:55:16.

Sibley because his feelings are somehow are sorted? I don't know how

:55:17.:55:21.

we can explain that extra l`yer of bureaucracy and cost to the British

:55:22.:55:26.

taxpayer, but that is how they like to do it in Scotland, and spend

:55:27.:55:33.

other people's money. What H think the Honourable Lady is saying is

:55:34.:55:37.

that she wants some cake and once great dollops of it so that she can

:55:38.:55:42.

spend her time reading it. That is to have an English Parliament and

:55:43.:55:45.

let's just use the House of Commons to accommodate that. What h`s been

:55:46.:55:50.

created here is a quasi English Parliament. This Parliament belongs

:55:51.:55:54.

to me, as much as her, to Scottish people as much as English pdople,

:55:55.:55:57.

but what has happened today and what is happening with this grand

:55:58.:56:03.

committee is that she will be able to represent her constituents in all

:56:04.:56:07.

the divisions of the House `nd I will not. That is what has been

:56:08.:56:10.

created. I will give way to my neighbour. What the House whll read

:56:11.:56:19.

from the honourable gentlem`n's honourable -- passionate and fluent

:56:20.:56:23.

speech is that these furious about a typically British evolution in the

:56:24.:56:30.

system of government which blocks his most devout desire which is

:56:31.:56:34.

separation for Scotland. Thhs is a system that makes it fair on England

:56:35.:56:39.

and deals with that grievance and means that his hope of independence

:56:40.:56:43.

disappears. That is why he hs so angry. With so many things from the

:56:44.:56:51.

honourable gentleman, he is half right. This has been noted hn

:56:52.:56:54.

Scotland. What people in Scotland are seeing is, this Parliamdnt will

:56:55.:56:59.

become in effect an English Parliament. They see the vohces of

:57:00.:57:03.

their recently elected membdrs of Parliament being diminished within

:57:04.:57:06.

this House where they will not be able to speak and vote in p`rticular

:57:07.:57:11.

lobbies. I listened to the leader of the during the debate on EVDL, and

:57:12.:57:18.

during all the discussions `nd debates we had on English Votes for

:57:19.:57:24.

English Laws, these would bd subject to a double majority, a votd of the

:57:25.:57:28.

whole House that would exprdss is about and then a folly in mdmbers of

:57:29.:57:31.

Parliament and that would effectively be their veto. But what

:57:32.:57:34.

has happened is that there has been a Irishman, there has been ` bar. --

:57:35.:57:41.

there has been a punishment. This is what happens when we start lucking

:57:42.:57:45.

about with the standing orddrs and arrangements for members in this

:57:46.:57:49.

House. We are left members who can do anything, and participatd and

:57:50.:57:55.

other members, who cannot, `nd it is totally unsatisfactory. We have just

:57:56.:58:01.

wasted goodness knows much time discussing these issues tod`y. It

:58:02.:58:04.

has made such a mess to the proceedings of this House, dxtra

:58:05.:58:10.

elements and additions put onto a hard-working House when it hs

:58:11.:58:14.

considering bills. He has already told the House that the Scottish

:58:15.:58:20.

Nationalist party has no interest in this measure, which in no w`y

:58:21.:58:26.

applies to Scotland and therefore will not vote on the matter, so what

:58:27.:58:31.

is his problem? They have every right to speak on this and now we

:58:32.:58:35.

have redressed and injusticd whereby we on these benches have felt, for

:58:36.:58:40.

years, as second-class citizens while we have been unable to vote on

:58:41.:58:45.

matters of health and education in Scotland, and they have been able to

:58:46.:58:50.

vote on matters solely to do with England, and will the honourable

:58:51.:58:52.

gentleman tell us this, on the hunting measure that was proposed to

:58:53.:58:56.

bring hunting regulations in England and Wales into line with those in

:58:57.:59:02.

Scotland, will the Scottish -- would the Scottish National Party have

:59:03.:59:06.

voted on that one? Can I sax this to the honourable gentleman in all

:59:07.:59:13.

candour and respect? We hear so much from our English colleagues about

:59:14.:59:17.

the deeply held views they have about English Votes for English Laws

:59:18.:59:21.

and the honourable gentleman is a fine exponent of that, the

:59:22.:59:26.

injustice, how dare you Scots are press all these English members who

:59:27.:59:30.

only make up 85% of members, coming down here, stealing their boats and

:59:31.:59:34.

ensure that we have a say in the legislation. If I look round the

:59:35.:59:37.

Chamber, the Conservative m`jority that we have, 88% of this House is

:59:38.:59:47.

English-olly. It is a ridictlous argument. It is a ridiculous

:59:48.:59:51.

assumption. I did want to t`ke up any more time on this. I can if you

:59:52.:59:58.

want! We will be coming back to these issues in the future. This is

:59:59.:00:04.

not concluded. They all think and I have heard again several in which

:00:05.:00:07.

members saying they are doing this to save the union. Can I just add a

:00:08.:00:13.

word of caution to my friends who represent English constituencies?

:00:14.:00:17.

What you are doing today is pursuing this issue in the way that xou have,

:00:18.:00:21.

you are driving Scotland out of the door. This is how it is being

:00:22.:00:27.

observed in Scotland. What we have had during the referendum, `nd you

:00:28.:00:32.

will remember this, "Stay whth us my Scotland, Scotland we love xou" and

:00:33.:00:36.

the minute we parked our backsides on these green benches we are

:00:37.:00:39.

diminished in status and not allowed to have a stay. As someone who

:00:40.:00:44.

represents proudly and Englhsh constituency, I feel today `nd I

:00:45.:00:49.

don't know if my colleagues on the Labour benches feel the samd, that

:00:50.:00:52.

the Tories are making precisely the same mistake as their predecessors

:00:53.:00:59.

did over Ireland. So frustr`ting the way that Scottish members c`n decide

:01:00.:01:04.

on the issue should not be one they should vote on. To try and have

:01:05.:01:10.

first and second class membdrs does a disservice to the union of great

:01:11.:01:15.

button, of the United Kingdom, and I deplore what is being done. I am

:01:16.:01:20.

very grateful to the honour`ble gentleman, I knew when I give way to

:01:21.:01:24.

him that we would be hearing one of the quality interventions in this

:01:25.:01:28.

debate. And he is absolutelx and utterly right in what he saxs. Were

:01:29.:01:34.

other was his front bench, though? They are not here to make any sort

:01:35.:01:38.

of speech statement about this. Why are they not participating? I

:01:39.:01:45.

remember when we had 50- odd members from Labour in this Parliamdnt, they

:01:46.:01:52.

would be standing for Scotl`nd, but there is complete silence from the

:01:53.:01:57.

Labour benches today. I am delighted the honourable gentleman is giving

:01:58.:02:02.

way because non-SNP members of Parliament in this Chamber have

:02:03.:02:04.

participated in this bill all the way through. We see this process is

:02:05.:02:08.

being a complete share rathdr as well. Whilst I will be voting at

:02:09.:02:13.

2:45am on behalf of my stitchers, the member for Perth and North

:02:14.:02:17.

Perthshire was in his bed. ,- my constituents. Maybe, maybe... It is

:02:18.:02:26.

with great fascination that we hear from the one and only Scotthsh

:02:27.:02:31.

Labour member of Parliament. Maybe that is the reason the honotrable

:02:32.:02:37.

gentleman is in such a diminished position. Their silence on these

:02:38.:02:40.

issues, the way that they h`ve ignored all the way through, and

:02:41.:02:44.

this weeks Williams about the attitude of the Labour Partx, that

:02:45.:02:51.

we hear from Labour on their view on what has happened today. Madam

:02:52.:02:57.

Deputy Speaker, I will conclude I will give way to the Honour`ble

:02:58.:03:02.

Lady. As somebody who was hdre in the wee small hours, the Labour

:03:03.:03:06.

Party were notable for their absence, being too busy cle`ring

:03:07.:03:11.

their own eyes out at the thme. They have a check to come and lecture us,

:03:12.:03:17.

here. I am grateful to the Honourable Lady for reminding us,

:03:18.:03:20.

that was the night of the l`nd we shovel. -- reshuffle. I did want to

:03:21.:03:28.

take up any more of the timd of the House. All I would say is that if

:03:29.:03:32.

you think that this is saving their union... I will give way. Thank you

:03:33.:03:41.

again, Madam Chairman. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman for

:03:42.:03:46.

allowing me to intervene, shnce the House voted that this is an historic

:03:47.:03:55.

occasion, this occasion is not flawed, it is designated as applying

:03:56.:04:01.

exclusively to England. Perhaps the Minister would just turn quhckly

:04:02.:04:06.

before we proceed to new closest to do and see whether it applids not

:04:07.:04:11.

just England but I think thd words "Wales" apply, or are in thd cause.

:04:12.:04:19.

The Honourable Lady has madd a creative intervention to put a point

:04:20.:04:21.

directly the Minister which deserves a response. All I can say from our

:04:22.:04:27.

perspective on this is that we will see lots of issues like this. With

:04:28.:04:31.

the rulings of EVEL to be confined to a grand committee such as this is

:04:32.:04:35.

that no consequential issues will be considered by the Speaker to issue

:04:36.:04:39.

certification. There will bd issues which will impact on my constituents

:04:40.:04:43.

down the line and I will not be able to represent my constituents in

:04:44.:04:47.

these things. If they believe that this is going to have anythhng other

:04:48.:04:51.

than a totally detrimental hmpact for the fortunes of the Conservative

:04:52.:04:55.

Party in Scotland, they will have to have another think about thhs. This

:04:56.:05:00.

is unworkable. This is a mess. This creates two classes of membdrs of

:05:01.:05:03.

Parliament in this House and it is totally unacceptable to the Scottish

:05:04.:05:07.

National Party and to my Honourable Friends. Madam Chairman, I rise to

:05:08.:05:16.

thank ministers for taking Dngland this first step on the journey to

:05:17.:05:19.

justice and fairness for our country. And having participated in

:05:20.:05:25.

recent parliaments and seemdd very large powers transferred to Scotland

:05:26.:05:29.

for self-government in accordance with the wishes of many Scottish

:05:30.:05:35.

people and they're now -voc`l representatives from the SNP, I

:05:36.:05:40.

would have thought, on this day of all days, it was the day for

:05:41.:05:43.

Scotland to say, we will cole some justice for England to create a

:05:44.:05:49.

happier union, just as we h`ve fought so strongly for so long for

:05:50.:05:53.

more independence for Scotl`nd. And I do hope the SNP will reconsider

:05:54.:05:58.

and understand that, in a h`ppy union, where there are very

:05:59.:06:05.

substantial devolved powers for Scotland of self-government, which

:06:06.:06:09.

they have chosen to exercisd through an independent Parliament, so there

:06:10.:06:12.

needs to be some independent right of voice and vote and judgmdnt for

:06:13.:06:17.

the people of England, which we choose to do, through the United

:06:18.:06:20.

Kingdom Parliament, because we think we can do both jobs and we do not

:06:21.:06:25.

wish to burden people with lore expense and more bureaucracx. And on

:06:26.:06:30.

this day of all days, when Labour has been reduced to a party of

:06:31.:06:35.

England and Wales and almost eliminated from Scotland in this

:06:36.:06:39.

Parliament, I would of thought that the front bench -- I would have

:06:40.:06:46.

thought that the front bench, our party is speaking for England. The

:06:47.:06:50.

point I am making is that now that the Labour Party in this Hotse

:06:51.:06:54.

represents parts of England and Wales, but has so little

:06:55.:06:57.

representation in Scotland, doesn't it behove them to listen to their

:06:58.:07:01.

English voters, and underst`nd that, whilst they may not want justice for

:07:02.:07:05.

England, their voters do want justice for England, and ard fully

:07:06.:07:09.

behind what this government is doing? I'm grateful to my Rhght

:07:10.:07:15.

Honourable Friend and I would like to congratulate him on the work he

:07:16.:07:19.

has carried out for many ye`rs champ anime the need for EVEL to be

:07:20.:07:23.

brought in. Does he agree whth me that having failed completely to

:07:24.:07:25.

persuade the Scottish peopld to end the union, the greatest hopd of the

:07:26.:07:29.

Nationalists would be the grievance and resentment in England that

:07:30.:07:33.

Scotland could be pushed out, and this modest step today is a way of

:07:34.:07:37.

alleviating that grievance, and that is why the honourable gentldman

:07:38.:07:40.

opposite was quite so angry in his speech?

:07:41.:07:48.

I entirely agree. The way to preserve and develop the unhon is to

:07:49.:07:55.

show that it is fair to all parts. I am sure that will mean greater

:07:56.:07:58.

powers of independence for Scotland and we will gain for England but we

:07:59.:08:03.

cannot ignore England. Engl`nd deserves a voice, England ddserves

:08:04.:08:07.

its votes and England deserves at the very least the right to veto

:08:08.:08:11.

proposals which do not suit England but all may affect England `nd I

:08:12.:08:15.

think we need to go on to h`ve their finances as well otherwise the

:08:16.:08:20.

English people will not with their union as we would like. So Ladam

:08:21.:08:26.

Chairman I hope that today hs a day to advance the cause of the union

:08:27.:08:30.

rather than to damage it. I hope it's a day when other Scots will

:08:31.:08:34.

welcome this small step on the road of justice for England and see that

:08:35.:08:38.

it helps them as well as ours and that what is wrong with England

:08:39.:08:43.

having a voice and its own political views and some of its own political

:08:44.:08:48.

decision-making in a union when Scotland has taken a great deal of

:08:49.:08:52.

that following a general eldction when all the main parties fought on

:08:53.:08:56.

United proposition that there should be more right to self-government for

:08:57.:09:00.

Scotland but when my party wisely said that meant there had to be some

:09:01.:09:05.

justice for England as well, this is a small step towards that jtstice

:09:06.:09:08.

and I hope this house will welcome it and not oppose it. John Healey.

:09:09.:09:19.

Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you We have intended simply to leave the

:09:20.:09:23.

government to deal with the mess of their own making in this debate

:09:24.:09:29.

This debate this afternoon hs about the housing and planning Bill. With

:09:30.:09:34.

respect to the right honour`ble gentleman it's not about thd union,

:09:35.:09:38.

it's not about justice for part of the union, this is quite silply a

:09:39.:09:43.

motion and a debate about the housing and planning Bill. The

:09:44.:09:45.

rather ridiculous proceedings that we have seen this afternoon and the

:09:46.:09:51.

overexcitement and align thd floors of rushing the floor of this house

:09:52.:09:59.

without proper consideration, without proper consultation, without

:10:00.:10:04.

proper cross-party agreement. I say to the house, Madam Deputy Speaker,

:10:05.:10:13.

we want and recognise the nded for a stronger voice for England hn this

:10:14.:10:18.

Parliament. But we have alw`ys said voice, not a veto. This leghslative

:10:19.:10:26.

grand committee is a veto shmply for those members eligible. That should

:10:27.:10:32.

not be happening in this wax in a unified Parliament of the United

:10:33.:10:39.

Kingdom. I give way. I am grateful, he appears to have neglected the

:10:40.:10:44.

apposite point made by my honourable friend and reiterated throughout the

:10:45.:10:46.

procedure committee when we discussed this proposal, th`t it was

:10:47.:10:51.

a change to standing orders on almost a suck it and see basis, this

:10:52.:10:57.

great totemic change which hs supposed to have taken placd with

:10:58.:11:00.

the rules of the house is not there, it is not in statute law or anything

:11:01.:11:04.

else, if we need to tweak it, we can. This is only standing orders.

:11:05.:11:10.

But standing orders can alw`ys be altered, in particular by

:11:11.:11:18.

government. By doing it in this way, the government on this occasion in

:11:19.:11:23.

this way is creating an extremely unsatisfactory procedure th`t the

:11:24.:11:25.

debate this afternoon have demonstrated. Let me say to the

:11:26.:11:32.

Scottish Nationalists, I have not seen and none of my colleagtes have

:11:33.:11:37.

seen, and this house is not seen, the Scottish Nationalists ott in

:11:38.:11:41.

such numbers in debates on the housing and planning Bill. We have

:11:42.:11:48.

not seen them at any stage hn any vote at second reading our committee

:11:49.:11:53.

or report, voting on this bhll. The honourable member for Perth and

:11:54.:11:57.

North Perthshire said to thd house this afternoon that we have little

:11:58.:12:02.

interest in this bill and hd's right! Because so little of this

:12:03.:12:06.

bill does concern Scotland `nd he would be much better, he and his

:12:07.:12:12.

party, concentrating on his own Poirot girding government and in

:12:13.:12:16.

proving what the SNP governlent is doing in Scotland on housing.

:12:17.:12:37.

This debate and proceedings is preventing us from getting on with

:12:38.:12:41.

the proper job of holding this government to task on the housing

:12:42.:12:44.

and planning Bill in this chamber and I hope we can move on to the

:12:45.:12:47.

third reading without any ftrther delay.

:12:48.:12:54.

I remind honourable members that, although I don't think they need to

:12:55.:13:02.

be reminded, that if there hs a division on the consent mothon for

:13:03.:13:08.

England and Wales, only members representing constituencies in

:13:09.:13:12.

England and Wales may vote. But I do remind honourable members that this

:13:13.:13:20.

extends to expressing an ophnion by calling out aye or no when the

:13:21.:13:24.

question is put and it extends to acting as a teller. I know the

:13:25.:13:30.

honourable gentleman knows that I know a Scottish voice when H hear

:13:31.:13:38.

one. LAUGHTER The question is, the consent motion

:13:39.:13:44.

relating to England and Walds as on the notice paper. As many as are of

:13:45.:13:52.

that opinion it's a aye. On the contrary, no. No. The ayes habit.

:13:53.:14:03.

The ayes habit. On a serious point of order I am

:14:04.:14:15.

very conflicted because I do not want in any way to be critical of

:14:16.:14:21.

the Speaker and his certification. That's the speaker clearly today

:14:22.:14:26.

confirmed his provisional certification and that incltded a

:14:27.:14:29.

reference to new clause 62 `s being exclusively applicable to England.

:14:30.:14:34.

New clause 62 applies to both England and Wales. What could be

:14:35.:14:43.

deputy chairman advertise when a certification by the speaker for

:14:44.:14:46.

whom I have enormous regard, appears to be flawed? The honourabld lady

:14:47.:14:53.

makes a perfectly reasonabld point and it is important we conshder

:14:54.:14:57.

points of order because this is a new procedure and the procedure

:14:58.:15:00.

committee has assured the house that it will be looking at the procedure

:15:01.:15:07.

and how it works in practicd. What I can say to the honourable l`dy is

:15:08.:15:12.

that Mr Speaker did make av`ilable in the vote office and in other ways

:15:13.:15:17.

several days ago his provishonal decision on this matter. Thdre have

:15:18.:15:22.

been several days during whhch the honourable lady and indeed `ny other

:15:23.:15:27.

honourable member had an opportunity to make representations to Lr

:15:28.:15:32.

Speaker exactly along the lhnes he has just informed the house. If this

:15:33.:15:37.

happens in future and the honourable lady has similar concerns then she

:15:38.:15:43.

can, she will have ample opportunity to take those concerns are per with

:15:44.:15:47.

Mr Speaker before we get to this point in proceedings. I would hate

:15:48.:15:59.

to think that because of fl`wed procedure has been followed in this

:16:00.:16:02.

case, and I do apologise for not bringing this to the speaker 's

:16:03.:16:05.

attention earlier but I am bringing it to the attention of the house

:16:06.:16:10.

today. It's a very important point, honourable members and right

:16:11.:16:12.

honourable members will be `sked to go through the lobby, apart from

:16:13.:16:17.

those of us from Northern Ireland, about that I feel exceedingly

:16:18.:16:20.

resentful and think it's quhte wrong and I do have an interest in this

:16:21.:16:24.

bill because my constituents are landlords who are affected by it.

:16:25.:16:28.

Today I would like Madam Ch`irman to give advice on whether we should

:16:29.:16:33.

pause and postpone this historic occasion and till we get thd

:16:34.:16:35.

certification correct by thd speaker? No, again, the honourable

:16:36.:16:42.

lady makes a perfectly reasonable point which I think I have `lready

:16:43.:16:47.

answered and the fact is th`t the decision of the house was t`ken on

:16:48.:16:51.

the 22nd of October that we would proceed as we are proceeding today.

:16:52.:16:56.

What I have said to the honourable lady is that if she has concerns

:16:57.:17:00.

about how matters work in practice both the procedure committed will

:17:01.:17:07.

look at this as the weeks go on and also Mr Speaker will be ple`sed to

:17:08.:17:11.

hear from the honourable lady if she has concerns the next time we come

:17:12.:17:16.

to this point in proceedings. Back now we will proceed. The hotse shall

:17:17.:17:24.

forthwith resolve itself in the end to the legislative grand colmittee

:17:25.:17:30.

for England. I remind all mdmbers that no further debate on the motion

:17:31.:17:36.

is permitted and if there is a division only members representing

:17:37.:17:40.

constituencies in England m`y vote. This extends to expressing `n

:17:41.:17:47.

opinion as I have already s`id. I call the minister to move the

:17:48.:17:51.

consent motion for England formally. Move formally. The question is the

:17:52.:17:58.

consent motion relating to Dngland as on the notice paper, as lany that

:17:59.:18:05.

opinion say aye. Aye. Of thd country no. The ayes habit. -- have it.

:18:06.:18:13.

Order. Order. I beg to report that the legislative

:18:14.:19:07.

grand committee England and Wales and the legislative grand committee

:19:08.:19:16.

England have consented. Third reading now. Secretary of State

:19:17.:19:25.

Greg Clark. Thank you very luch Madam deputies Speaker, I bdg to

:19:26.:19:30.

move that the bill now be rdad for a third time. It is customary on these

:19:31.:19:33.

occasions to thank all thosd involved in the consideration and

:19:34.:19:37.

scrutiny of the bill in question but on this occasion I would bite to pay

:19:38.:19:41.

particular tribute to my honourable friend the member for Great Yarmouth

:19:42.:19:44.

for having moved so eloquently this historic motion for the first time

:19:45.:19:51.

in this house. And to commend the right honourable friend, thd leader

:19:52.:19:55.

of the house, for giving us the opportunity to have the

:19:56.:19:57.

consideration done in this particular way. The debate on this

:19:58.:20:03.

throughout its proceedings has been a rich and vigorous from beginning

:20:04.:20:07.

to end. Those of us who werd here for the first day of the report

:20:08.:20:13.

stage will note that there has been no letup in the Passion or hndeed

:20:14.:20:17.

the number of contributions despite the lateness of the hour. Bdfore

:20:18.:20:22.

embarking on the traditional congratulations I would likd to

:20:23.:20:26.

suggest that for the whole house a degree of humility would be in order

:20:27.:20:30.

on the part of us all. Becatse housing, let me make some process,

:20:31.:20:35.

housing and planning policy has been debated in this place and the other

:20:36.:20:39.

place for decades and yet for decades this country has not built

:20:40.:20:44.

the number of new homes we need Despite the improvements in recent

:20:45.:20:49.

years with a 50% increase in new housing starts and planning

:20:50.:20:55.

permission now at over 200,000 per year, the last time we conshstently

:20:56.:20:59.

build 200,000 homes per year was back in 1988. I will give w`y. I go

:21:00.:21:06.

back to the comment about your military because I wonder if he

:21:07.:21:10.

would take this opportunity to apologise to council tenants for not

:21:11.:21:13.

informing them at the gener`l election it was the intention of the

:21:14.:21:17.

Conservatives to take away secure tenancies and introducing it to the

:21:18.:21:21.

bell in the latter stages, will he now apologise for that becatse

:21:22.:21:24.

council tenants were not given that information when they went to vote

:21:25.:21:30.

in the general election. Gohng back to 2010 the Prime Minister thought

:21:31.:21:35.

it was reasonable that when we are allocating homes as social tenancies

:21:36.:21:39.

the idea that you should inherit without conditions at tenancies

:21:40.:21:43.

should be something that should be amended so that is business which

:21:44.:21:47.

was notified as much as fivd years ago. Evidence of the effects over

:21:48.:21:54.

many administrations of not building the number of homes that we have

:21:55.:21:59.

needed for many decades has been the scene in the lives of those who

:22:00.:22:04.

could, who should and who w`nt to be homeowners but have been denied the

:22:05.:22:08.

opportunity many of us have had Those who say we already buhld

:22:09.:22:12.

enough homes or that home ownership is not important would do wdll to

:22:13.:22:19.

remember that. I applaud his commitment to house-building to make

:22:20.:22:24.

sure that more of our consthtuents can be homeowners and I also applaud

:22:25.:22:29.

my right honourable friend for the undertaking to look for the quality

:22:30.:22:32.

he made to my new clause ond in the he made to my new clause ond in the

:22:33.:22:35.

initial parts of the report stage debate. She has made a very

:22:36.:22:43.

important contribution to the proceedings on this bill, it's

:22:44.:22:48.

absolutely vital that we sed an improvement in the quality of design

:22:49.:22:52.

in our housing stock. One of the features of the last housing bubble

:22:53.:22:58.

which was experienced beford the government came into office was a

:22:59.:23:04.

dearth of new family homes `nd instead most of the increasd in

:23:05.:23:08.

housing that came during th`t time was in the form of flats whhch came

:23:09.:23:12.

from the particular incentive structure which was there where

:23:13.:23:17.

units rather than any suggestion of quality were important and the

:23:18.:23:22.

points that she made have bden well noted and in some of the

:23:23.:23:25.

announcements that the pro-Linister made in recent days we have stressed

:23:26.:23:30.

the importance in regenerathng. I will give way.

:23:31.:23:40.

History mid-off council ten`ncies is a disgrace. He was asked about

:23:41.:23:49.

security. Why can cancel dinner is not continue as happened under the

:23:50.:23:53.

1985 Act introduced by Marg`ret Thatcher to have security in the

:23:54.:23:56.

same way that anybody else would want in their home? That is

:23:57.:24:01.

appalling. Why are we only building starter homes that no one c`n afford

:24:02.:24:05.

instead of social homes which people need and want? The honourable

:24:06.:24:09.

gentleman is completely wrong. If he looked at the housing plans we have,

:24:10.:24:14.

they include building 100,000 houses for affordable rent as well as

:24:15.:24:19.

200,000 starter homes. It is a mandate on which this government was

:24:20.:24:24.

elected to provide homes for people who aspire to own their own home as

:24:25.:24:28.

well as those who want to rdnt them. And it has been one of the failures

:24:29.:24:33.

of recent years that people who have wanted to own their own homd in the

:24:34.:24:36.

way that many members of thhs House have have been denied the

:24:37.:24:40.

opportunity. I will give wax. The honourable gentleman is not only

:24:41.:24:43.

wrong because this government is allowing the building of more

:24:44.:24:46.

affordable homes but also wrong because this bill provides for self

:24:47.:24:52.

build and custom House building on a larger skill than ever before, which

:24:53.:24:55.

can also include social housing for rent. -- larger scale. My Honourable

:24:56.:25:03.

Friend is right. We need to see homes provided across the country of

:25:04.:25:07.

all of the different types `nd tenure that our constituents and

:25:08.:25:14.

residents want. There has bden a dearth of homes that have bden

:25:15.:25:19.

affordable for first-time btyers for increasing numbers of years now

:25:20.:25:22.

which is why the commitment that we had in our manifesto to provide

:25:23.:25:25.

starter homes for first-timd buyers is such an important part of our

:25:26.:25:30.

platform which we are implelenting with this bill. I am grateftl to my

:25:31.:25:35.

Right Honourable Friend. Will he agree that the most important single

:25:36.:25:39.

thing we can do is to get btilding, because it is only by supplx

:25:40.:25:43.

outstripping demand that we will see prices come down, and that `ll the

:25:44.:25:48.

programmes we had in the Labour years from key worker housing and

:25:49.:25:52.

the rest of it were banned `ids on a massive wound. It is building that

:25:53.:25:56.

we need. That is what will lake housing more affordable. Th`t is how

:25:57.:25:59.

we will deliver a true one nation government. We need to get Britain

:26:00.:26:05.

building again, and we are, with a 25% increase in starts and the last

:26:06.:26:09.

year. We need to do this across the country. I would have thought all

:26:10.:26:12.

members including the party opposite would share in the warm auttmn that

:26:13.:26:17.

was given across the housing sector, by housing associations, by builders

:26:18.:26:23.

began small, of the announcdments that the Chancellor made in the

:26:24.:26:27.

Spending Review, which doubled the housing budget, the biggest

:26:28.:26:30.

programme of affordable House building that we have seen since the

:26:31.:26:35.

1970s. I will give way to the honourable gentleman. What hs

:26:36.:26:40.

affordable to his constituents might not be affordable to mine. Does he

:26:41.:26:46.

share my concerns that we m`y see an unintended consequence, perhaps of

:26:47.:26:51.

his measures, the removal of properties from the social rented

:26:52.:26:58.

sector and then appearing in the privately rented sector, costing

:26:59.:27:01.

more to the public purse in the long run? We want to see more holes of

:27:02.:27:07.

all types and the commitment that we have given is to build 1 million

:27:08.:27:13.

homes over the next five ye`rs, something that the previous

:27:14.:27:16.

government signally failed to do, when they had 80,000 homes being

:27:17.:27:22.

built in a single year, the lowest since the 1920s. I will givd way and

:27:23.:27:28.

then I will make progress. The Prime Minister said at the weekend, he

:27:29.:27:34.

expected 1 million propertids to be moved from socially rented to

:27:35.:27:39.

privately owned. He was talking about building 1 million properties.

:27:40.:27:42.

Where will the extra social rentals come from? It seems the Prile

:27:43.:27:45.

Minister is saying that there will Ashley be ever just about of social

:27:46.:27:49.

rented properties. Does he not see that the maths do not add up? The

:27:50.:27:55.

reduction in social rented properties happened under the

:27:56.:27:57.

previous Labour government when stocks fell by 400,000. Our

:27:58.:28:02.

determination is to build more homes of all types so that we can House a

:28:03.:28:06.

growing number of young people who want to own and rent homes of their

:28:07.:28:12.

own. I'm grateful to the Secretary of State. On council housing isn't

:28:13.:28:16.

the real scandal that in 13 years, the last Labour government failed to

:28:17.:28:22.

build the homes that we built in five's My Honourable Friend is

:28:23.:28:26.

absolutely right. As Housing Minister he made a major

:28:27.:28:28.

contribution to the revival in house-building that was necdssary

:28:29.:28:33.

after the crash that took place under the previous government. So we

:28:34.:28:39.

have seen over the past fivd years house-building recover from the

:28:40.:28:43.

record lows of the previous decade. Yet, as this bill makes cle`r, these

:28:44.:28:47.

are the first steps away from a much longer record over successive

:28:48.:28:53.

parliaments. Indeed, the connection between supply, affordability and

:28:54.:28:58.

ownership is obvious to all. And yet for decades, successive parliaments

:28:59.:29:01.

and successive governments ommer failed to find a lasting solution,

:29:02.:29:05.

not because they did nothing but often because they failed to tackle

:29:06.:29:10.

the underlying issues. In the last Parliament, the government's focus

:29:11.:29:14.

was on recovery from the worst housing crisis the Second World War.

:29:15.:29:20.

In this Parliament, our focts has shifted from rescue to reform. A

:29:21.:29:27.

wide-ranging instrument, thhs bill does not represent being Tyra to

:29:28.:29:30.

what needs to be done. As the Chancellor made clear in thd Autumn

:29:31.:29:33.

Statement at the Prime Minister made clear last week, this government is

:29:34.:29:37.

committed to a compressive, ongoing programme of reform, addressing all

:29:38.:29:41.

of the problem and not just part of and this bill is of central

:29:42.:29:44.

importance to the overall strategy. I will give way. I appreciate the

:29:45.:29:49.

minister giving way. Talking about the record of the last government,

:29:50.:29:54.

can he explain why funding for affordable loans were slashdd by 60%

:29:55.:29:58.

when his government came in, in 2010? -- affordable homes. The

:29:59.:30:04.

record of the last government is clear. We built more homes `nd more

:30:05.:30:08.

council houses than the previous government had in 13 years, so we

:30:09.:30:13.

will take no lessons from the honourable lady. I will givd way to

:30:14.:30:20.

the honourable gentleman. Whll he confirm at the dispatch box that

:30:21.:30:27.

there is no block to foreign buyers buying council housing built for

:30:28.:30:34.

British people down the gendrations and, under this bill, we will see

:30:35.:30:37.

the sell-off of properties which were bought for workers in this

:30:38.:30:43.

country, often to foreign investors, and there is no bar to that? There

:30:44.:30:50.

are restrictions that prevent, for a considerable period, homeowners

:30:51.:30:54.

exercising the right to buy, selling on. Foreign ownership and investment

:30:55.:31:01.

of UK property is still at ` very low level. I don't recall the

:31:02.:31:04.

previous government introduced any particular restrictions on that Let

:31:05.:31:11.

me point to two flagship manifesto commitments that this bill

:31:12.:31:14.

implements, namely, the extdnsion of the right to buy two Housing

:31:15.:31:19.

Association tenants and the provision of 200,000 starter homes

:31:20.:31:23.

by 2020. The bill making good alleges made directly to thd British

:31:24.:31:26.

people and backed by the Brhtish people in the general electhon. That

:31:27.:31:34.

particular element of this scheme does not work in high-value areas

:31:35.:31:38.

where people because of the sort of work they do will never be `ble to

:31:39.:31:41.

get a mortgage and thereford, there are certain people who will never be

:31:42.:31:47.

hogged by your bill. The honourable lady on behalf of 30 stitchds were

:31:48.:31:50.

welcomed the announcement is that the made in extending, for ` sample

:31:51.:31:56.

-- on behalf of her constittents, to provide greater help with that. And

:31:57.:32:03.

in fact, the enthusiasm of the housing associations, including in

:32:04.:32:08.

her constituency, to be abld to provide to her residents thd right

:32:09.:32:12.

to buy their homes, and, at the same time, to build more homes in London,

:32:13.:32:16.

is one of the key features of this Bill. I'm grateful to My Honourable

:32:17.:32:24.

Friend for giving way. It is thanks to this bill, thanks to the work of

:32:25.:32:29.

the current Mayor of London and my friend the member for Richmond Park

:32:30.:32:33.

that we will see more affordable housing in London in contrast to the

:32:34.:32:38.

Socialist mayor and governmdnt which persistently underdelivered for

:32:39.:32:43.

London. One of the proud pidces of the legacy of the current M`yor of

:32:44.:32:50.

London is the opportunities that he has given across the capital for

:32:51.:32:53.

people to own and rent their own homes. Of course, there are few

:32:54.:32:59.

pieces of legislation that cannot be improved by the deliberations of

:33:00.:33:03.

this House. This is a long bill and I wish to thank members frol all

:33:04.:33:07.

sides for their informed contributions, attention to detail

:33:08.:33:11.

and their perseverance. This applies to the members of the Bill committee

:33:12.:33:15.

jointly chaired by the membdr for North Wiltshire, and the melber for

:33:16.:33:19.

Mansfield. I am grateful for the expert guidance of my departmental

:33:20.:33:23.

officials and to the clerks of the House. And finally I would like to

:33:24.:33:29.

thank my own formidable front bench team, who conducted this Bill

:33:30.:33:36.

through all of its proceedings with precision, tenacity and strdngthened

:33:37.:33:41.

what was already a very important bill. And in the same spirit, allow

:33:42.:33:47.

me to acknowledge the contrhbutions of members opposite who served long

:33:48.:33:53.

into the night, not just at report states but also in the Bill

:33:54.:33:58.

committee. In contrast to the cities and local government devolution

:33:59.:34:03.

Bill, which I am informed h`s cleared its passage in the House of

:34:04.:34:07.

Lords this every afternoon, unamended, we may not have greatly

:34:08.:34:12.

expanded in this bill the common ground between us, but I do thank

:34:13.:34:15.

the opposition for the contributions to the debate which has lacked as

:34:16.:34:20.

well as heat, sometimes. I would like to join with My Honour`ble

:34:21.:34:27.

Friend, the memo for Bromlex, in recognising the contribution of our

:34:28.:34:30.

friend the member for Richmond Park and North Kingston. London hs a city

:34:31.:34:35.

like no other. And it has a property market to match. In view of the

:34:36.:34:38.

special challenges and opportunities, it is right that the

:34:39.:34:41.

proceeds from the sale of hhgh-value assets should be used to provide

:34:42.:34:47.

new, affordable homes in London on a two-for-one basis. I am delhghted

:34:48.:34:53.

that the bill has been supported for the objective and I'm grateful to My

:34:54.:34:56.

Honourable Friend for his advice and his advocacy in this matter. London

:34:57.:35:00.

is fortunate to have such a tireless and effective champion. It hsn't

:35:01.:35:06.

only members of this House who have contributed. I would like to put on

:35:07.:35:10.

record my gratitude to thosd beyond this Chamber who have made their

:35:11.:35:14.

mark, including local government leaders of all parties, expdrts in

:35:15.:35:19.

planning policy, tenants' representatives and the housing

:35:20.:35:22.

sector, in all this diversity. Nothing has made a greater

:35:23.:35:25.

contribution to the developlent of this Bill than the historic deal

:35:26.:35:28.

agreed last year between thd government and the Housing

:35:29.:35:31.

Association movement. Voluntary agreement on right to buy not only

:35:32.:35:34.

speeds up the delivery of a commit it make to the British people at the

:35:35.:35:39.

general election, it also provides a basis for which housing associations

:35:40.:35:44.

can play a major role in thd delivery of new, affordable homes,

:35:45.:35:47.

both for rent and for purch`se. Therefore, I would like to dxpress

:35:48.:35:51.

my particular thanks to the National Housing Federation and its chief

:35:52.:35:58.

executive, David Orr. This Bill has been the subject of intensive

:35:59.:36:05.

scrutiny and debate. Furthermore, it has in a debate in which words have

:36:06.:36:09.

had consequences. The government has listened, as it should, and acted on

:36:10.:36:14.

what we have heard. Significant and strengthening changes have been made

:36:15.:36:20.

as a direct result. Subject to the vote delay, the bill goes to the

:36:21.:36:25.

Other Place in good shape, backed by a clear electoral mandate, `nd I

:36:26.:36:32.

commend it to the House. As we complete this historic new procedure

:36:33.:36:35.

for this Bill, the question is that the Bill be now read the thhrd time.

:36:36.:36:46.

Jon Eley. -- Healy. As we p`ss this bill onto the Other Place I would

:36:47.:36:50.

like to thank officers and staff of the House, in particular those in

:36:51.:36:54.

the Bill office, for guidance on our work on this Bill in this House I

:36:55.:36:59.

would like to pay tribute to my front bench colleagues, the members

:37:00.:37:06.

for the City of Durham, Eris and Thamesmead, for Greenwich and

:37:07.:37:10.

Woolwich, and for Islington. They have relentlessly exposed the deep

:37:11.:37:16.

political fiscal and policy flaws in this Bill, as we have opposdd the

:37:17.:37:20.

worst of what the government are trying to do. And I am gratdful

:37:21.:37:25.

too, for the unified and strong support from my colleagues on the

:37:26.:37:31.

Labour benches, particularlx those who served on the Public Bill

:37:32.:37:35.

Committee, the members for Google, Harrow West and for Dulwich and West

:37:36.:37:42.

Norwood, and also other members of that committee who worked through

:37:43.:37:43.

those 40 hours of scrutiny. Which is of concern are also welcome

:37:44.:38:00.

from the Conservative benchds. Cities of London and Westminster, St

:38:01.:38:06.

Albans, so Cambridge, Oxford and West Abington to name just ` few. It

:38:07.:38:13.

is a warning to ministers, `nd a signal to the other place, that

:38:14.:38:17.

Conservative members and Conservative local government

:38:18.:38:21.

leaders rightly have growing criticisms about the loss of

:38:22.:38:25.

genuinely affordable homes hn their area, rural and urban Allied. About

:38:26.:38:30.

the sweeping new powers for ministers to impose planning

:38:31.:38:36.

decisions on local communithes and about the starter homes, so,called

:38:37.:38:39.

starter homes being an affordable to many young families on modest

:38:40.:38:45.

incomes. Normally with legislation new hope to improve the bill as it

:38:46.:38:49.

goes through the house. This was a bad bill, it is now a very bad bill.

:38:50.:38:59.

This was a bad bill, now made much worse by amendments forced through

:39:00.:39:03.

at the last minute, after the committee line by line scrutiny New

:39:04.:39:10.

clauses to define homes on sale for up to ?450,000 as officiallx

:39:11.:39:18.

affordable. The government hs not building enough affordable homes so

:39:19.:39:21.

it simply is branding more homes as affordable. New clauses to stop

:39:22.:39:27.

councils offering anything longer than 2-5-year tenancies. Thd end of

:39:28.:39:34.

long-term rented housing. The end of a stable home for many children as

:39:35.:39:38.

they go through school, the end of security for pensioners who move

:39:39.:39:42.

into bungalows or sheltered flats later in life. How has it come to

:39:43.:39:48.

this? That we, on the Labour side, are having to defend the reforms and

:39:49.:39:53.

rights which were introduced by Margaret Thatcher. This is `n

:39:54.:39:57.

extraordinary and an extremd bill. I give way. Does he agree that this

:39:58.:40:03.

bill makes the lives of Londoners and indeed in other regions as well

:40:04.:40:09.

much, much less secure and hf you add that into what many people are

:40:10.:40:13.

experiencing in the workplace with insecure roles makes everyone life

:40:14.:40:20.

just much worse? My honourable friend is right, this bill

:40:21.:40:22.

completely fails to get to grips with the problems of modern life and

:40:23.:40:26.

the crisis of home ownership especially for young people and

:40:27.:40:30.

families on ordinary incomes. The so-called starter homes are out of

:40:31.:40:33.

reach in those areas where people most need help to buy a homd of

:40:34.:40:40.

their own. Last week Tory MPs voted against Labour proposals to make

:40:41.:40:45.

these homes more affordable. The bill will sounds the deathknell for

:40:46.:40:50.

social housing which has had support from all parties for over a century.

:40:51.:40:57.

For the first time since thd Second World War, in the Autumn St`tement

:40:58.:41:01.

the Chancellor confirmed thdre is no national investment programle to

:41:02.:41:08.

build such houses. Starter homes will be built in place of affordable

:41:09.:41:12.

council and housing association homes both to buy and to rent.

:41:13.:41:17.

Councils will be forced to sell their best properties and housing

:41:18.:41:22.

associations will not replace many of the right to buy sales whth

:41:23.:41:28.

like-for-like homes. That is why shelter, like the independent

:41:29.:41:30.

charter Institute for housing project that this bill will lead to

:41:31.:41:37.

the loss of at least 180,000 genuinely affordable homes to rent

:41:38.:41:42.

and buy over the next five xears. An extraordinary and an extremd bill.

:41:43.:41:49.

We have tried to stop the worst of these plans, but Tory ministers and

:41:50.:41:55.

Tory MPs have opposed our proposals to give local areas the flexibility

:41:56.:41:59.

to promote homes of all typds depending on local housing need not

:42:00.:42:05.

just starter homes. Proposals to make starter homes more affordable

:42:06.:42:09.

and to protect and recycle the taxpayer investment. Propos`ls to

:42:10.:42:15.

stop ministers mandating th`t pay to stay limits hate working hotseholds

:42:16.:42:19.

on modest incomes. Our proposals to allow local areas to protect the

:42:20.:42:23.

council and housing association homes with a proper replacelent of

:42:24.:42:29.

each. Our proposals to limit any automatic planning permission from

:42:30.:42:35.

ministers to Brownfield land. And our proposals to protect st`ble

:42:36.:42:40.

family homes for council tenants. In truth Madam Deputy Speaker, many of

:42:41.:42:45.

the problems are caused by linisters who announce first and ask puestions

:42:46.:42:52.

later. No consultation, little time for proper scrutiny, more than 0

:42:53.:42:55.

pages of new legislation tabled at the last minute after the committee

:42:56.:43:03.

had done its scrutiny of thhs bill. There is a great deal for the other

:43:04.:43:08.

place to do on this bill. In five years of governments we havd seen

:43:09.:43:16.

five years of failure on hotsing under Conservative ministers.

:43:17.:43:19.

Homelessness rising. Privatd rents soaring. There was -- levels of home

:43:20.:43:26.

ownership falling every year since 2010 and now at the lowest level for

:43:27.:43:31.

a generation. This government over the last five years seeing fewer new

:43:32.:43:39.

homes built in this country than any government in peacetime history

:43:40.:43:44.

since the 1920s. After five years of failure this bill does nothhng to

:43:45.:43:49.

deal with the root causes of those failures and in many areas ht will

:43:50.:43:52.

make the problems are great deal worse. I am very grateful btt is it

:43:53.:44:00.

not also time that the government practised what it preaches. In this

:44:01.:44:06.

bill there are measures to tackle houses of multiple occupation yet in

:44:07.:44:11.

my constituency, but for thd tenacity of councillor Olivdr Ryan

:44:12.:44:15.

and local residents the Homd Office and their contractors sought to

:44:16.:44:19.

convert a small semi detachdd family home into an HMO over the -, for the

:44:20.:44:28.

dispersal programme. I could have extended the list, Tory minhsters

:44:29.:44:31.

and Tory MPs voted against our proposals to try to reinforce the

:44:32.:44:35.

hand of the council to deal with such abuse from landlords. To deal

:44:36.:44:39.

with such exploitation of tdnants. To make homes required to mdet

:44:40.:44:44.

standards which make them fht for human habitation or stop repuired to

:44:45.:44:51.

do annual electricity and electrical safety checks but they rejected each

:44:52.:44:54.

and every one of those proposals and we will return to those in the other

:44:55.:44:58.

place. I give away for the last time. I am very grateful, would he

:44:59.:45:04.

also add to that list the f`ilure to address the fact that some private

:45:05.:45:07.

landlords are using them to wonder drug money. -- launderer. Mx right

:45:08.:45:22.

honourable friend might well be correct, prevents them from bringing

:45:23.:45:26.

together often with other agencies some of that sort of action to bring

:45:27.:45:31.

with those problems which lhght many areas when they could be de`lt with.

:45:32.:45:35.

Madam Deputy Speaker the Prhme Minister has been hyperactive with

:45:36.:45:41.

housing announcements whilst this is going through but if press releases

:45:42.:45:46.

built home the housing crishs would be solved by now. People will judge

:45:47.:45:50.

him and this government and this bill in the years to come on whether

:45:51.:45:56.

the housing pressures have dased. On whether the housing prospects have

:45:57.:46:01.

improved. On whether the hotsing costs have become more affordable.

:46:02.:46:06.

After five years of failure are we desperately needed a bill to give

:46:07.:46:11.

people hit by the high cost of housing and by the cost of housing

:46:12.:46:15.

crisis some hope that things will change. But this is not that bill.

:46:16.:46:24.

This is an extraordinary and extreme bill and we will vote against it

:46:25.:46:31.

again tonight. Order. A gre`t many people wish to speak in this

:46:32.:46:35.

important third reading, we only have half an hour left, I hope that

:46:36.:46:39.

honourable members will be courteous and take no more than three, four

:46:40.:46:44.

minutes. That means less th`n four minutes. Bob Neill. Thank you madam

:46:45.:46:53.

gets to Speaker. I am saddened to have heard the speech I havd just

:46:54.:46:58.

heard. He together with the Secretary of State are two of the

:46:59.:47:02.

people I have always had most respect for in this chamber but his

:47:03.:47:05.

diagnosis is fundamentally flawed and I am sorry he has fallen into

:47:06.:47:11.

that error. The reality is this the Secretary of State has brought

:47:12.:47:15.

forward a bill which is necdssary, is proportionate and sensible.

:47:16.:47:18.

Anyone who tries to charactdrise anything which comes from mx right

:47:19.:47:22.

honourable friend as being dxtreme, I am sorry, he is not in totch with

:47:23.:47:27.

a measure of political realhty. What we saw in the past I'm sorrx to say,

:47:28.:47:34.

and I understand, was a history a litany of failure from Labotr

:47:35.:47:37.

governments so that when my right honourable friend and I walked into

:47:38.:47:45.

the Department we did the worst rates of building we had sedn since

:47:46.:47:51.

the 1920s. We saw the worst rates of social housing being built. We saw a

:47:52.:47:55.

market depressed and crushed in London in particular thanks to the

:47:56.:48:02.

very imposing views adopted by the previous mayor, Ken Livingstone who

:48:03.:48:06.

actually choked off the supply of housing in London by unrealhstic

:48:07.:48:09.

demands of social element and section 52 agreements. And by an

:48:10.:48:16.

ideological hatred, which I'm sorry to say, slipped through in `n

:48:17.:48:22.

intervention earlier on. Run properly it has a critical role to

:48:23.:48:29.

play in London and any other city. It's a sadness that we see ` retreat

:48:30.:48:34.

back not just to the 70s and 80s, a retreat to a state of policx that

:48:35.:48:42.

Morrison would be ashamed of. Does my honourable friend recognhse the

:48:43.:48:48.

problems I experienced under the Labour government of house-building

:48:49.:48:52.

targets which led to high ldvels of flat did accommodation rathdr than

:48:53.:48:56.

family homes which we have seen delivered under this governlent

:48:57.:49:00.

Hundreds of families getting the starter homes they could only dream

:49:01.:49:05.

of under the last Labour government. Absolutely right, London suburbs in

:49:06.:49:10.

particular suffered from thd policy of counting units rather th`n

:49:11.:49:15.

affordable homes. It meant places like Bromley, Beckenham and others

:49:16.:49:19.

were swamped with flats being ELT when the real demand was for

:49:20.:49:23.

affordable family homes -- being built. I remember when I was a

:49:24.:49:38.

councillor tonnes and tonnes of people in my ward wanting to buy

:49:39.:49:42.

their home and the Labour government stopping them and I find it pretty

:49:43.:49:47.

appalling that someone who H would normally respect obstructs `nd

:49:48.:49:50.

steeps to stop people having aspiration. Aspiration goes to

:49:51.:49:56.

having a chance to buy, havhng a chance to get on and it's that lack

:49:57.:50:01.

of aspiration which INAUDIBLE That is why I think their opposition

:50:02.:50:07.

to this is so sad and actually I would say such a betrayal of

:50:08.:50:13.

hard-working people, people like my shop steward grandfather who worked

:50:14.:50:17.

hard to buy his own home and was helped. People this governmdnt is

:50:18.:50:21.

trying to help. We won't take any lessons from the party opposite

:50:22.:50:26.

about social inclusion or epuality, the reversing social inclushon and

:50:27.:50:30.

equality. We should congrattlate, I will give way, of course. Does he

:50:31.:50:37.

understand, does he share mx confusion that the Labour P`rty

:50:38.:50:40.

which has control of many councils and billions of pounds of rdserves

:50:41.:50:44.

is not establishing and proloting mutual housing cooperatives, there

:50:45.:50:48.

is nothing to stop them doing that if they wanted to promote social

:50:49.:50:55.

rents, there are avenues av`ilable. My honourable friend is absolutely

:50:56.:50:59.

right, many local authoritids would take that up, housing cooperatives

:51:00.:51:03.

are a great ideal. It's the Labour attitude towards the privatd rented

:51:04.:51:07.

sector which has been the b`rrier to institutional investment in the

:51:08.:51:10.

private sector which would hmprove the quality of the stock and it the

:51:11.:51:16.

consistent failure of Labour to take advantage of the opportunithes. It's

:51:17.:51:25.

a sad day, I had to say what I have to say, I like them as people but

:51:26.:51:29.

they are profoundly wrong in their opposition to this. Thank you madam

:51:30.:51:36.

Deputy Speaker for calling le to speak in this debate, I nothce the

:51:37.:51:44.

member for Edinburgh South has since vanished from the chamber, what a

:51:45.:51:49.

shame. Members may remember, I am not sure if the member for Bromley

:51:50.:51:53.

and Chislehurst was here whdn I spoke on the 2nd of November about

:51:54.:51:58.

my grandparents touts in Wishaw I was passed it on Sunday and new

:51:59.:52:01.

tenants have moved into that house, a house which was in my famhlies

:52:02.:52:06.

care, a socially rented council tenancy, it has moved on to another

:52:07.:52:10.

generation and I think that's a nice and positive thing this govdrnment

:52:11.:52:14.

wants to remove from England. Listening to this debate is like

:52:15.:52:17.

listening to a story of another country because in Scotland's.. If

:52:18.:52:19.

he wants to intervene he can. This has been like listening to a

:52:20.:52:32.

debate about another countrx. We are not participating in votes on this

:52:33.:52:35.

because we felt it was important to allow English and Welsh members to

:52:36.:52:40.

make decisions about that. We have taken a principled stance on that,

:52:41.:52:44.

and we did not need EVEL to make that possible best and is, we had

:52:45.:52:50.

that already. The wrapping concerns raised by Shelter, the Scottish

:52:51.:52:53.

Federation of Housing assochations, who worry about the impact on

:52:54.:52:56.

Scotland. It is not something you cannot put an amendment down on

:52:57.:53:01.

unintended consequences or things that might happen as a result of

:53:02.:53:05.

this will to housing associ`tions based in Scotland. There ard a

:53:06.:53:10.

number of cross-border Houshng associations. We don't yet know what

:53:11.:53:13.

the impact on those will be if they are forced to sell stock sotth of

:53:14.:53:19.

the border, what will be thd impact on investment lines on the rest of

:53:20.:53:22.

their plans for Scotland, for Scottish tenants? We don't know In

:53:23.:53:26.

Scotland, we have abolished the right to buy, and for good reasons.

:53:27.:53:31.

Those houses will be lost to the housing stock of Scotland. People

:53:32.:53:34.

were languishing on waiting lists and we realise that there w`s no

:53:35.:53:37.

further week ago with that because people were not getting the chance

:53:38.:53:41.

to have a socially rented home, and that is their aspiration. It is for

:53:42.:53:45.

a home, not a House, to livd in for generations. The upset too lany

:53:46.:53:52.

people with the plans to brhng in aspects like reducing the alount of

:53:53.:53:59.

time that you can have your tenancy is a real concern, because hf you

:54:00.:54:05.

live in an area, you want to settle, to belong. And for many people that

:54:06.:54:08.

will be the area they grew tp in, for others it may not stop hf it is

:54:09.:54:15.

2-5 years, your rent is up for review, you don't know what is going

:54:16.:54:19.

to be allowed, if you will be permitted to stay on at homd, you

:54:20.:54:23.

might have to move, you don't know whether your children will be able

:54:24.:54:27.

to stay in school there, and there may be consequences on schools in

:54:28.:54:30.

that area if there is a constant turnover of pupils. That impact on

:54:31.:54:35.

the ability of the skills to work well and flourish and build a

:54:36.:54:40.

community that we would all wish to live in. This housing bill hs a

:54:41.:54:42.

pretty dreadful bill in manx respects. I would say as well, the

:54:43.:54:47.

minister said he did not want to have central command and control of

:54:48.:54:51.

Housing. Maybe that is so. Why is it, then, he wants to set rdnt, and

:54:52.:54:55.

forced Housing associations to reduce rent by 1%, and using the

:54:56.:55:01.

ability to borrow, plan and make available essential welfare rights

:55:02.:55:04.

services to their tenants? He has taken that out of their hands

:55:05.:55:08.

through his central command and control system here. This whll

:55:09.:55:14.

impinge on the personal rel`tionship tenants may have with their housing

:55:15.:55:16.

officer and their neighbours as well. Should they Orr -- should they

:55:17.:55:32.

clipe of that someone gets ` pay rise? It is just not right. That is

:55:33.:55:37.

something that the government has got to recognise by rolling back on

:55:38.:55:42.

making this compulsory, makhng it a voluntary scheme and hopefully they

:55:43.:55:45.

will try to get rid of that altogether. I have concerns about

:55:46.:55:50.

the selling off of high-valte homes. High-value homes are not luxury

:55:51.:55:53.

mansions somewhere, they ard families that allowed familhes to

:55:54.:55:57.

stay in local communities and I think they should look again at that

:55:58.:56:01.

because it is important that it is addressed properly. I will close on

:56:02.:56:08.

that, but thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. H will

:56:09.:56:16.

try to stick to the injuncthon to stick to within the four minute

:56:17.:56:20.

limit. It has been a pleasure serving on the community --

:56:21.:56:23.

committee and watching both front bench teams in action. I will come

:56:24.:56:27.

this Bill is an opportunity to further improve the record of this

:56:28.:56:30.

government in the area of house-building. The right honourable

:56:31.:56:36.

member for Wentworth referrdd to statistics are few moments `go. I

:56:37.:56:39.

would respectfully remind hhm that in his last year as Housing

:56:40.:56:44.

Minister, across the United Kingdom there are 195,000 start yet another

:56:45.:56:50.

current Secretary of State that had increased 35%, 265,000 starts, so

:56:51.:56:55.

this government has a it can be proud of. I will give way. Hn London

:56:56.:57:04.

we have seen a 55% increase in rough sleeping. Tory mayor, Tory

:57:05.:57:09.

government. Is that the kind of Tory aspiration we have heard of? I would

:57:10.:57:14.

imagine that the amount has come gone down to better last five years

:57:15.:57:20.

ago, and action is needed to combat this problem, I am sure that we can

:57:21.:57:23.

all agree. On the question of supply, the has-been agreemdnt that

:57:24.:57:28.

there is an undersupply of housing in this country competitive

:57:29.:57:31.

measures in this Bill to increase measures in this Bill to increase

:57:32.:57:35.

housing supply, in particul`r measures to build on surplus

:57:36.:57:41.

Brownfield land encapsulated by local development orders whhch will

:57:42.:57:43.

protect the green belt by m`king sure that we focus developmdnt on

:57:44.:57:48.

areas where it is most appropriate. The London land commission, jointly

:57:49.:57:53.

shared by the Housing Minister, is under way and I welcomed thd

:57:54.:57:56.

announcement to give it further powers to bring into development

:57:57.:58:01.

publicly owned land, and sililarly, the amendments tabled last week at

:58:02.:58:06.

the Report Stage to introduce non-local authority providers of

:58:07.:58:10.

planning processing services, not decision-making processes btt

:58:11.:58:14.

processing powers, will, I think, expedite the passage of planning

:58:15.:58:19.

consent and further increasd housing supply. All of those measurds will

:58:20.:58:22.

help increase housing supplx and therefore help increase

:58:23.:58:28.

affordability. The second area where this bill does work and what is on

:58:29.:58:34.

homeownership. The member for Wentworth pointed out that the

:58:35.:58:40.

homeownership has declined, it has gone down, and that is lamentable.

:58:41.:58:44.

And I will come the starter home initiative which I hope will reverse

:58:45.:58:47.

the trend. It is regrettabld that the party opposite has passdd by

:58:48.:58:53.

every opportunity to promotd homeownership which this bill has

:58:54.:58:59.

provided. And I would be delighted to vote for it in a few minttes

:59:00.:59:03.

time. Effectively every first-time buyer in this country will be given

:59:04.:59:08.

a 20% discount when this bill becomes law. That is extremdly well,

:59:09.:59:13.

and will reverse the tide, H hope, in homeownership decline. That is

:59:14.:59:16.

something we should all be `ble to support. In summary, this bhll will

:59:17.:59:22.

increase housing supply, promote homeownership, and I urge all

:59:23.:59:27.

members to support it. And H even urge our colleagues in the SNP to

:59:28.:59:31.

support it precariously. -- vicariously. Parts of this Bill are

:59:32.:59:42.

so squalid and vindictive. What is paid to stay, if it is not laking it

:59:43.:59:49.

unaffordable for people on loderate incomes to stay in my consthtuency?

:59:50.:59:54.

One is the forced sale of council housing and the end of secure

:59:55.:59:58.

tenancies. These are nothing but an ad hominem attack on every council

:59:59.:00:03.

tenant, Housing Association ten everyone who lives in charitable and

:00:04.:00:08.

social landlord territory in this country and it is outrageous,

:00:09.:00:11.

frankly. It is nothing to do with housing policy. It is to do with

:00:12.:00:15.

sectarian interests and gerrymandering, to do the social

:00:16.:00:21.

engineering, as Glenn Tobruk, the lead singer of Squeeze memorably

:00:22.:00:29.

sang to the Prime Minister on The Andrew Marr Show on Sunday that

:00:30.:00:32.

council housing was part of what made Britain great. What thhs means

:00:33.:00:39.

to my constituents is, 50% of council houses being sold off, 500

:00:40.:00:43.

homes being lost to the public sector in that way. There is an

:00:44.:00:48.

absolutely chronic shortage of decent housing and no one c`n afford

:00:49.:00:54.

private renting or owner occupancy in my constituency. Whenever homes

:00:55.:01:00.

are demolished you either do not get them replaced all you get mdaner

:01:01.:01:04.

versions of them on private sites. The member for Richmond Park let the

:01:05.:01:10.

cat out of the bag when he said that all the Tories will do is rdplace

:01:11.:01:14.

them with starter homes at ?450 000, miles away from the areas in which

:01:15.:01:20.

people now live. The attack on security of tenure is the most

:01:21.:01:23.

disgraceful thing in this bhll. That is part of the social contr`ct in

:01:24.:01:27.

his party as Mac this country. Margaret Thatcher understood that

:01:28.:01:33.

with the Housing Act in 1984 and 1988, but for I should tenancies it

:01:34.:01:38.

gave family something that they could call a home. Why did discover

:01:39.:01:45.

that want to destroy that? The only place, I have the largest

:01:46.:01:49.

development site in London hn my constituency, with 24,000 ndw homes

:01:50.:01:56.

at Old Oak. These are going to be starter homes. Who can afford those

:01:57.:02:02.

at ?430,000 each? The member for regions Park should be ashaled of

:02:03.:02:07.

himself. The member for tooting showed that there was only one

:02:08.:02:12.

candidate in the London mayoral election who will stand up for

:02:13.:02:15.

Londoners and providing gentinely affordable housing in this country.

:02:16.:02:23.

We will take no lectures from the government benches about

:02:24.:02:26.

homeownership. It is the lowest level it has been at for a

:02:27.:02:31.

generation. It has gone down every year under their tenure, and they

:02:32.:02:34.

must explain why it was that they have scrapped the investment put in

:02:35.:02:40.

place in 2008 of ?8.4 billion programme to build houses of all

:02:41.:02:45.

sorts including affordable houses, and cut it down to ?660 million in

:02:46.:02:50.

their first budget. We are taking no lectures from them about

:02:51.:02:56.

homeownership. But this is ` war on social housing. And for London it is

:02:57.:03:04.

actually a war on tradition`l, long-standing, established,

:03:05.:03:07.

working-class communities that have played their part in the economy of

:03:08.:03:11.

London for generations. There are several measures in this ill that

:03:12.:03:17.

are wiping out the future of social housing. On planning, section 1 6,

:03:18.:03:22.

were most social housing was paid for, that is now going to p`y. The

:03:23.:03:27.

homes. The forced sale of Housing Association properties, the forced

:03:28.:03:31.

sale of high-value council House properties in order to subshdise the

:03:32.:03:37.

rebuilding of Housing Assochation properties and we have yet to see

:03:38.:03:41.

the figures on that that proves it is financially viable. The removal

:03:42.:03:48.

of secure tenancies to the government's eternal shame, with no

:03:49.:03:51.

mandate from the electorate whatsoever. No warning. We said this

:03:52.:03:57.

was what the Tories wanted to do, in 2010, and we were told that we were

:03:58.:04:02.

lying, but we are not lying now RB, because this is exactly what they

:04:03.:04:05.

have done when they have at the first opportunity to introdtce and

:04:06.:04:09.

then pay to stay, if somebody increases their income or the family

:04:10.:04:13.

income increases, they are going to be penalised with a higher rent In

:04:14.:04:18.

what other social field with the Tories introduce a policy lhke that?

:04:19.:04:24.

It is just a war on social housing, but they are prepared to subsidise

:04:25.:04:29.

homeownership. I am happy to see subsidy of homeownership through

:04:30.:04:32.

various schemes, but it is not there, when it is taken awax from

:04:33.:04:37.

social housing at the same time And the Chartered Institute of Housing

:04:38.:04:42.

estimates the cost of this will be ?3.3 billion and we are yet to see

:04:43.:04:46.

where this money is going to come from. The member for Richmond Park

:04:47.:04:51.

has said we are going to get a two-for-one replacement in Greater

:04:52.:04:56.

London. Where are the figurds that show that this actually adds up

:04:57.:05:01.

This is a fig leaf to cover his own embarrassment for this bill, which

:05:02.:05:04.

is a disastrous bill for colmunities in London. It is an excuse written

:05:05.:05:11.

up on the back of a fag packet that Lynton Crosby is running his

:05:12.:05:14.

campaign. And it is not going to work for people in London. What the

:05:15.:05:18.

Tories don't understand is that social housing is an essenthal part

:05:19.:05:24.

of any major city's economy. People need to live close to where they

:05:25.:05:29.

work particularly on the back of the fare increases that we have seen

:05:30.:05:32.

from this Tory mayor, peopld cannot afford to do low-income jobs, live

:05:33.:05:38.

in outer London and travel hnto Central London. This is why low cost

:05:39.:05:43.

social housing is so essenthal in areas of high land values in Central

:05:44.:05:47.

London. The Tories don't understand it. They never have and thex never

:05:48.:05:51.

will. They have always had ` hatred of social housing. This is ` bill

:05:52.:05:57.

that Margaret Thatcher could not have dreamt of. It is a dis`ster for

:05:58.:06:01.

communities in London and I tell you what, the Tories will rue the day

:06:02.:06:07.

that they did it. I need spdeches is nearer to three minutes. We have

:06:08.:06:14.

various members to accommod`te. Nearer to three minutes would be

:06:15.:06:21.

have all. In welcoming this large, excellent ill, can I thank the

:06:22.:06:26.

Secretary of State, who fell short of accepting my new clause five but

:06:27.:06:30.

has agreed to set up a workhng party to look into the reasons whx so few

:06:31.:06:35.

local authorities using the powers that are already available to them

:06:36.:06:39.

in collecting tenure inform`tion through their council tax

:06:40.:06:43.

application forms. The information so collected would I believd the

:06:44.:06:46.

screw me helpful to local authorities and to tenants hn

:06:47.:06:50.

particular, in identifying rogue landlords and letting agents and

:06:51.:06:58.

also housing benefit fraud, unregulated houses in multiple

:06:59.:07:04.

occupation and other parts of the housing and planning function, and

:07:05.:07:07.

also, environmental health hssues, and so, I look forward to this

:07:08.:07:08.

working group making progress to working group making progress to

:07:09.:07:14.

ensure that these powers ard exercised consistently across all

:07:15.:07:14.

local authorities. It is right that this government has

:07:15.:07:26.

in the Queens speech at housing bill. It is right because poor

:07:27.:07:31.

housing robs you of your frdedom and your liberty, it is the entry point

:07:32.:07:35.

to a civilised society. What a tragedy it is then that in response

:07:36.:07:41.

to a broken market and a chronic lack of supply where we need 30 ,000

:07:42.:07:47.

new builds are your over ten years, have 1.6 million people rotting on a

:07:48.:07:52.

council housed rating rest ,- waiting list and were more than a

:07:53.:07:59.

quarter of 18-24 -year-olds are still living in the family home I

:08:00.:08:03.

should not give way if I am waiting for others to get in. What ` tragedy

:08:04.:08:10.

that the scale of this crishs is the reverse of the puny ambition of this

:08:11.:08:15.

government. Where are the designation of 5-10 garden cities

:08:16.:08:19.

needed over this decade? Whdre is the increase in income and building

:08:20.:08:25.

capacity for housing associ`tions? Where is the increase in social

:08:26.:08:28.

housing that we desperately need in order to meet those 1.6 million

:08:29.:08:35.

people. Instead we see a diversion of funds towards the wrong

:08:36.:08:40.

priorities, in short first of all 200,000 so-called starter homes

:08:41.:08:46.

Instead of 300,000 section 006 actual affordable homes. If you

:08:47.:08:53.

believe, and with right to buy being the second huge assault on

:08:54.:08:57.

affordable housing, if you believe that aspiration is right and the

:08:58.:09:01.

right to own your own home hs something we should work towards

:09:02.:09:04.

then you will be allowing a like-for-like replacement in

:09:05.:09:09.

advance. If you want to, by an act of vandalism, destroy social housing

:09:10.:09:12.

you would do what the government is currently doing. The member for

:09:13.:09:18.

Bromley and Chislehurst took offence at the Labour front bench about the

:09:19.:09:21.

use of the word extreme, it is true to say this government actions

:09:22.:09:26.

towards rural committees ard absolutely extreme. If you think

:09:27.:09:30.

that the inside four council houses in South Lakeland are now privately

:09:31.:09:35.

owned, can you realise the damage done to rule Britain? -- rule

:09:36.:09:43.

Britain. This shows a lack of understanding of rural Brit`in. A

:09:44.:09:46.

failure to tackle the second home crisis in Ruel Brathwaite as well.

:09:47.:09:50.

This government made a choice to keep the market broken. It hs often

:09:51.:09:55.

said that there is nothing lore stressful than the time when you are

:09:56.:10:00.

moving home because it is costly, because it is psychologically

:10:01.:10:03.

difficult, welcome to real Britain everyday life formally ends of

:10:04.:10:07.

people who cannot afford thdir own home today. This government has

:10:08.:10:11.

looked those people in the dye, to govern is to choose and thex have

:10:12.:10:14.

chosen to let them down, thhs bill should fall. There have been many

:10:15.:10:22.

good amendments to this bill, sadly those were the ones the govdrnment

:10:23.:10:26.

rejected. LAUGHTER New clause three and four would have

:10:27.:10:32.

set right many of the inadepuacies of the 2002 commonhold leasdholder

:10:33.:10:37.

format. They were rejected. New clause 52, imagine Mr Speakdr, a

:10:38.:10:43.

clause to make sure that rented properties are fit for human

:10:44.:10:50.

habitation, defeated. Houses are not fit for habitation voted for by a

:10:51.:10:59.

government not fit to govern. This bill focuses on the abolition of

:11:00.:11:04.

social housing, both council and housing association owned and is a

:11:05.:11:07.

deliberate dismantling of the social rented sector. I give way briefly.

:11:08.:11:13.

Is my honourable friend aware that as a result of this bill ond of my

:11:14.:11:18.

local housing associations hs preparing to sell off stock which is

:11:19.:11:22.

expensive to maintain as it becomes vacant even if that is throtgh

:11:23.:11:26.

auction and incrementally moving out of the very areas they were supposed

:11:27.:11:31.

to serve. My honourable fridnd makes a powerful point and indeed in my

:11:32.:11:38.

own constituency 500 council homes would be at risk of forced sale

:11:39.:11:42.

rather than going to people on the waiting list. On the waiting list Mr

:11:43.:11:48.

Speaker we have four and a half thousand households in band a -C.

:11:49.:11:56.

Band D abolished, abolished because we have had to tell people that

:11:57.:12:00.

anyone in band D does not stand a chance of getting a home. That is

:12:01.:12:06.

the scale of the problems wd're facing. And the response th`t we

:12:07.:12:12.

have had from is totally in`dequate to meet the housing needs of people

:12:13.:12:18.

in London. High rent, lower than average incomes, larger than average

:12:19.:12:22.

household size in my constituency mean that affordability is ` huge

:12:23.:12:28.

problem. Council and housing association rents are to be cut by

:12:29.:12:36.

1% a year. That is mixed news. According to the Institute for

:12:37.:12:39.

Fiscal Studies it helps verx few of the 3.9 million social tenants, it

:12:40.:12:43.

just comes off their housing benefit. But it's a bonus for the

:12:44.:12:48.

Treasury, 1.7 billion of thd housing benefit bill by leaving a dhsastrous

:12:49.:12:52.

hall in council and association finance. It is beer in the social

:12:53.:12:58.

rented sector that the real price of this will be paid and will be felt I

:12:59.:13:05.

tenants. Future planning for housing development will have greatdr and

:13:06.:13:09.

greater share of home ownership rather than social rented housing.

:13:10.:13:12.

Communities will find themsdlves broken up either by redevelopment or

:13:13.:13:17.

in the long-term by the loss of secure tenancies which has been a

:13:18.:13:22.

bedrock of stable neighbourhoods. I want children in my constittency to

:13:23.:13:26.

grow up knowing that in thrde years' time they are going to be able to

:13:27.:13:31.

set their GCSEs and their A,level exams at the same school th`t they

:13:32.:13:36.

started off at age 11! This government is denying them that

:13:37.:13:39.

right! It used to be that an English family 's home was their castle

:13:40.:13:47.

Longer. Until up to 656, Harry Harper. I would like to focts on a

:13:48.:13:56.

couple of areas I find disttrbing. Ministers have made much of this

:13:57.:14:01.

being agreed to be voluntarx by the National Housing Association but it

:14:02.:14:06.

was only accepted with the clear knowledge that similar mess`ges

:14:07.:14:10.

would be forced on housing associations. Some doubts about how

:14:11.:14:15.

voluntary the agreement was. After the government strong-armed housing

:14:16.:14:17.

associations into this position it's no wonder they are sceptical and

:14:18.:14:21.

forcing local authorities to sell off their housing stock to pay for

:14:22.:14:25.

the policy means councillors are not exactly keen leader. As a Tory lead

:14:26.:14:30.

LG has pointed out, councils are best placed to respond to the areas

:14:31.:14:36.

housing needs. It is disappointing that ministers who not so vdry long

:14:37.:14:39.

ago prided themselves as ch`mpions of localism are now tying councils

:14:40.:14:50.

hands. The chartered Instittte of Housing has suggested that sales of

:14:51.:14:54.

these high-value properties will fall well short of expectathons to

:14:55.:15:00.

the gym of some ?3.3 billion. More to the point who will lease

:15:01.:15:04.

high-value homes be sold to? If they are high value than certainly not

:15:05.:15:09.

first-time buyers. Councils are incentivised to sell them as dearly

:15:10.:15:13.

as possible to make sure thdy can meet Treasury demands. They are more

:15:14.:15:17.

likely than not going to end up in the hands of speculators or buy to

:15:18.:15:20.

let landlords and what was once council housing means affordable

:15:21.:15:26.

rents will move out of reach people struggling to their housing costs.

:15:27.:15:31.

The other area where the right to buy policy falls down is its lack of

:15:32.:15:35.

requirement for replacement housing to be built on a like-for-lhke

:15:36.:15:43.

basis. Excuse me. As it stands, the bill is far too weak on housing

:15:44.:15:47.

association replacements. There is no requirement for them to build a

:15:48.:15:51.

similar property to the ones sold or even to build it at the samd end of

:15:52.:15:55.

the country. One third are now saying they will stop holding

:15:56.:16:00.

affordable homes altogether. Housing associations have always worked with

:16:01.:16:05.

the social ethos but this bhll allows, holes that I owed to the

:16:06.:16:08.

point where commercial survhval is all. An council tenancies the bill

:16:09.:16:15.

legislator in security by forcing local authorities to offer only

:16:16.:16:19.

short-term tenancies, the government is encouraging uncertainty `nd a

:16:20.:16:24.

worry for low income familids. For council tenants the house they live

:16:25.:16:30.

in is not an asset to be managed, it is a home. It is where they have

:16:31.:16:35.

raised their family. For those on low and very limited incomes are

:16:36.:16:42.

secure tenancy represents s`fety and stability and a sense of belonging.

:16:43.:16:46.

If I could just end with a few remarks about the private rdnted

:16:47.:16:53.

centre. From my own experiences I know there are many dedicatdd,

:16:54.:16:57.

genuinely caring private landlords whose professionalism does them

:16:58.:17:01.

great credit. But there is `lso far too large minority who see their

:17:02.:17:07.

often vulnerable tenants as cash cows and have little thought for

:17:08.:17:10.

their responsibilities other than turning up every week on thd

:17:11.:17:16.

doorstep to click parental. Private renting is on the rise, at puarter

:17:17.:17:20.

of all families with childrdn are private renting and it is a national

:17:21.:17:24.

scandal that nearly one third of these properties do not meet the

:17:25.:17:28.

decent homes standard. The government is to be congrattlated

:17:29.:17:31.

for trying to get to grips with this but this bill could be so mtch

:17:32.:17:36.

bolder. A statutory requirelent for private landlords to make stre their

:17:37.:17:40.

properties are up to scratch throughout the lifetime of ` tenancy

:17:41.:17:44.

would give them their tenants a decent level of security and allow

:17:45.:17:48.

for much with action against those landlords who give the rest a bad

:17:49.:17:55.

name. The question is that the bill be now read a third time. As many of

:17:56.:18:04.

that opinion see aye. Aye. Of the country no. No. Division, clear the

:18:05.:18:07.

lobby! The question is that the bill now be

:18:08.:20:20.

read a third time, as many of that opinion see aye. Aye. To thd

:20:21.:20:27.

contrary scene no. No.

:20:28.:20:29.

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