Browse content similar to 19/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning and welcome to BBC Parliament live coverage of the | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
Commons. In an hour and urgent question is being asked by | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
Conservative Stephen Phillips about Ebola. Officials in zero the loan | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
confirmed -- in Sierra Leone confirmed that someone has died | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
after the world health organisation said the virus had ended. The main | :00:32. | :00:40. | |
business are to debates on student maintenance grants and on the cost | :00:41. | :00:49. | |
of public transport. Join me for a round-up at 11 o'clock tonight. | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
First questions to the Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne and his | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
ministerial team. The first question from the Conservative Craig Williams | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
concerns the Chancellor's long-term economic plan. | :01:02. | :01:17. | |
Order, order. Questions to Mr Chancellor of the Exchequer. Craig | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
Williams. Britain is in a much stronger | :01:25. | :01:38. | |
economic position manager was five years ago with employment up and the | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
deficit down. However, as I set out in my speech to business leaders in | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
Cardiff, we face a dangerous cocktail of economic risks from | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
around the world this year. That situation is reflected in the IMF | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
forecast which was published one hour ago which shows world growth is | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
down but the positive forecast for the UK on change. It sure is the | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
best thing we can do here is continued to fix our public | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
finances, back business and deliver our long-term economic plan. Thank | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
you. The Chancellor was very welcome when he was in Cardiff two weeks ago | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
and brought a sense of urgency to the Cardiff city deal process with a | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
deadline for the budget and a clear sense of direction. If we are to | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
maximise the potential of Cardiff in the Welsh economy presented and our | :02:25. | :02:31. | |
long-term economic plan, is it not time we had tangible plans from | :02:32. | :02:39. | |
Labour given the have had years to come up with them? It was good to | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
meet with my honourable friend and business leaders in Cardiff and to | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
back investment in the new semiconductor catapult and the | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
brilliant work being done at the university there. I hope we can | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
agree with the wealth of Ramadan with authorities in Cardiff a | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
Cardiff city deal before the budget. He poses the rate question, which is | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
after 16 years after being in power the Labour Party in Wales has not | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
delivered incredible economic plan for Wales is it not time for change? | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
If the Chancellor keeps sucking off the threat to the very existence of | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
some of Britain's's course at Egypt industries like still cause -- like | :03:26. | :03:36. | |
steel, is there not eight danger that it might just not be the at all | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
in the future? Of course the redundancies at Tata Steel and | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
elsewhere in the industry are a real matter of regret. We are providing | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
all these aboard we can to families, helping them get back into work. We | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
are also responding to a quest from the steel industry to cut energy | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
costs. That comes into effect today. -- requests from the steel industry. | :04:01. | :04:08. | |
We are making sure that internationally we take action | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
against the chief imports from China. Not one of these things were | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
done under a Labour Government, and during that period, the number of | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
steel jobs fell by 50% in this country. So we will not take | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
lectures from the party opposite, but we will back our steel industry. | :04:23. | :04:29. | |
Does the tiles were think that the stamp duty surcharge announced in | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
the Autumn Statement, the effect of that on the buy to let market will | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
be to inhibit or advance labour mobility? I think it will help | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
promote homeownership, because it will mean there is a more level | :04:46. | :04:53. | |
playing field between an order occupier buying a house at the buy | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
to let landlords. There is nothing wrong with people investing in | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
property, there should just be a level playing field so that we | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
reverse the decline in home ownership in this country. A | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
long-term economic plan means supporting small businesses across | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
the country. On the 26th of December 250 businesses in my constituency | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
employed 2500 people were inundated by floodwaters. Bobby tiles for Dick | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
Best opportunity to commit to a proper school -- well the Chancellor | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
take the opportunity to commit to proper flood defences? I know the | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
Environment Agency and indeed the Government is conducting a review | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
after what was the highest level of rainfall in our modern history in | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
Yorkshire. But of course by committing the additional ?2 billion | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
to flood investments we are able to afford these things. We would not be | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
able to afford any of this sort of thing if we had wrecked the economy | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
in the last couple of years. Does my honourable friend agree that as part | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
of his long-term economic plan be helped by Isil will help people in | :06:07. | :06:19. | |
my constituency where -- help to buy ISA will help? The help to buy ISA | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
has been a huge success as it has been launched. 170,000 families have | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
taken it up because that is helping people get on the ladder, the | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
property ladder, helping them save for that deposit and doing | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
everything we can to support the aspirations of the families of | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
Britain. The Government's plan requires the doubling of exports by | :06:45. | :06:55. | |
2022 ?1 trillion, -- by 2020. Can the Chancellor tell us, does he | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
still hauled to the intention and the promise to the UK exports rise | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
by ?100 billion per year every year for the next five years? We do hold | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
to the target, but quite frankly it will be very challenging to meet, | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
because while we have been improving exports, and frankly many of our | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
main export markets have been very weak, we would like to see further | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
economic reform on the continent of Europe. Some of those emerging | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
markets are struggling at the moment, although we have a very good | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
economic dialogue team plays today with India. British exports to India | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
are increasing. There are a lot of challenges, but I am not one who | :07:41. | :07:42. | |
thinks we should knock the challenges or ditched the target. | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
Increasing exports is a key target for the UK. We should set ambitious | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
targets but they have to be credible. Given that all beer -- or | :07:53. | :08:04. | |
they are say it will be feel -- will feel to be met, should we not set a | :08:05. | :08:15. | |
realistic and achievable targets? I think it is right to set the | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
scratching target and tried to meet it even if it will be challenging. | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
He talks about realistic and credible numbers. If Scotland had | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
listened to the Scottish nationalists, it would be becoming | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
separate from the United Kingdom in two months' time and the Scottish | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
Government and its claim on independence on an oil price of | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
$115. Scotland now would be heading for economic catastrophe if there it | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
had listened to the honourable gentleman and the members from the | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
Scottish Nationalist party. So before they talk about credible and | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
realistic economic policies anywhere else in the UK, they should get one | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
themselves. Motor manufacturing is crucial to our long-term economic | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
plan. Surely the Land Rover defender. Production in Solihull. | :09:11. | :09:26. | |
--. Production. Well the Chancellor pay tribute to the workers in | :09:27. | :09:38. | |
Solihull? This iconic model has been produced over decades and been seen | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
all over the world and producible peacetime and wartime. Good news for | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
Solihull and the whole country is that they continue to produce | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
brand-new models of great cars and are one of the real success stories | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
of the British economy and in general, Wilder have been | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
conservatives in the Treasury and in Downing Street, car production in | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
this country is up 50%. -- while there have been Conservatives. The | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
Chancellor has promised an economic recovery for all felt in all parts | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
of our nation. On the day the IMF has warned about the global economy | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
and called for governments to increase public spending, will be | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
Chancellor now reconsider his economic plan and his investment and | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
in particular? The economic plan has seen employment, unemployment fall. | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
It has meant that on those IMF forecasts the UK's forecast has not | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
changed. It remains one of the strongest of all the advanced | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
economies in the world. I might suggest he might want to treat his | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
own economic policy, since in the last week he has called for the | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
return of flying pickets, was to ban companies paying dividends, and | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
wants to spend billions of pounds on nuclear missile submarines without | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
any nuclear missiles. Today he said he will tour the country with the | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
former Greek finance minister to educate us all about economics. I | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
think the one thing they have in common is they have both lost their | :11:16. | :11:26. | |
marbles. If the Chancellor will not reconsider his investment plans, can | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
he at least appreciate how angry families of steelworkers South Wales | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
are this morning knowing that when the bankers bonuses were threatened, | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
he immediately shot across to Brussels with an army of lawyers to | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
defend them. He will jump into a helicopter for a Tory fundraiser but | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
it has taken him for months to lift a finger for a steelwork, to receive | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
Steelworkers' jobs. Does that not prove he is actually the bankers' | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
Chancellor? We want a successful financial services industry because | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
hundreds of thousands of people across the country work in it. | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
We have taken action to reduce energy costs, which hadn't happened | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
previously, and that comes into effect today. That's why we're | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
taking action to change procurement rules so that the British Government | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
and others are encouraged to by British Steel, which never happened | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
when the Labour Party were in office, and we are acting | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
internationally to deal with things like the dumping of Chinese steel. | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
Of course it is an incredibly difficult situation but, as he | :12:38. | :12:39. | |
knows, and everyone in this House knows, there are steel jobs being | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
lost in every single country in the world at the moment. The question | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
is, what can you do nationally to defend your steel industry and | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
protect it, and we are doing everything we can. If he has got | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
constructive suggestions, he should put them to me. Number two, please. | :12:54. | :13:02. | |
With permission, I'd like to group this question with question 13. The | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
Financial Conduct Authority is an independent regulator. No Treasury | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
minister or official had discussions with the SCA before it took the | :13:15. | :13:16. | |
decision to continue this review. Given that the popular image of | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
bankers right now is probably on a par with used-car salesmen or MPs, | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
even, would she not agree with her honourable friend, the Member for | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
wire forest, but to abort this review now, which could have looked | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
at regulating challenger banks as well as historic mis-selling, is a | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
missed opportunity all-round? Well, I find it hard to take lectures from | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
the party opposite in terms of regulating the financial sector. In | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
fact, since my right honourable friend became Chancellor, we set up | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
the Financial Conduct Authority. We've moved on from the failed | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
regulatory system that was there under the Labour government and we | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
made it a criminal offence to manipulate the UK's key benchmark. | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
We brought in the toughest rules on bankers' pay of any financial centre | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
and we are bringing in a new criminal offence so that any senior | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
managers whose reckless decisions bring down banks face jail time. | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
With the terrible impact of bad banking practices that was | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
highlighted in the Tomlinson report, particularly commercial lending to | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
small businesses, still unresolved one of my constituents, does the | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
Minister agree that both the public and small businesses still have | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
significant concerns about the behaviour of many individuals in the | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
banking sector? I completely agree with the honourable lady that we | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
need to see the highest levels of conduct from the banking sector. We | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
also need to continue to take steps in terms of our long-term economic | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
plan to secure access to funding for small businesses, which is why we've | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
taken steps to back peer-to-peer lending, with extended funding for | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
lending for another two years and we continue to benefit from record low | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
interest rates, axed our prudent to, management. There has certainly been | :15:05. | :15:13. | |
speculation that the Treasury has influenced the SCA and one metres | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
fanciful, it is important but that it was set up independently in 2012. | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
But does my honourable friend agree that one of the ways that we could | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
potentially underpin that independence of the Financial | :15:29. | :15:30. | |
Conduct Authority would be to adopt a similar process that we have with | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
the office of budget responsibility, whereby the Treasury committee can | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
have a power of veto over the apartment of the chief Executive? | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
The honourable gentleman, who is very constructive and engaged as a | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
member of the Treasury select committee, I know we'll have the | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
opportunity to ask westerns of the acting chief executive and the chair | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
of the Financial Conduct Authority at his committee on Wednesday. But | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
what I would agree is that it is very useful for the committees such | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
as to have a pre-appointment hearing with any executive of the Financial | :16:08. | :16:15. | |
Conduct Authority. The symphony interbank immigration software | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
allows for the permanent deletion of e-mails and advertises itself as, | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
this will save the banks billions of pounds in fines. Will the Minister | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
join my campaigning conduction with the Secretary of State business to | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
ensure that the FCA retains the encryption codes for the software as | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
they do in America, for seven years? He asks a very salient question and, | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
of course, it is something that the FCA is currently investigating and | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
he will be aware that new rules in terms of a particular requirement | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
will require firms to keep that information for a significant period | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
of time at this the subject of ongoing discussion. With the | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
Minister agree that one of the biggest problems in the banking | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
culture is that banks are too big to fail and would she looked at the | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
issue of diversity in the sector, including new lending platforms | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
market disrupters, and would she looked, in particular, at new | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
primary duties for the SCA to look the of diversity? | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
Well, he will I'm sure welcomed the announcement that we are expecting | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
on Wednesday from both the Bank of England and the FCA and the PRA to | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
work together in terms of backing innovation in the financial sector. | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
That is part of our long-term economic plan to back competition in | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
the can accept and I'm pleased to say that in the last parliament | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
there were eight new entrants to banking and did this parliament we | :17:39. | :17:46. | |
are aiming to have 15. Interventions by HM Treasury and other bodies have | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
raised questions regarding the ball's independence. Not my words | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
but the words of an FCA commissioned external report regarding the SCA | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
board which was published last week. How will the chancellor demonstrate | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
that the appointment of the new Chief Executive of the FCA won't be | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
an example of an overreaching chancellor trying to get his own | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
way? Well, it was good of the honourable gentleman to turn up for | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
Treasury questions this time. I guess there wasn't a stop the War | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
march or a picket line to join today. But I can assure the | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
honourable gentleman that the Treasury does have the power to | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
appoint both the board and the Chief Executive, it sets the remit of the | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
FCA but from then on it has operational independence. Number | :18:35. | :18:42. | |
three. Latest ONS figures show real average weekly earnings were up 2.4% | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
year-on-year in the three months to October. Wage growth has outstripped | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
inflation for 13 consecutive months, the longest period of real wage | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
growth since before the recession, and the OBR forecasts were to grow | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
faster than in elation over the next five years. -- than inflation. Does | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
he agree with me that the key to delivering further wage growth, | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
particularly in rural areas like Somerset, is improving the skills | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
base, which underpins the Chancellor's economic plan for the | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
South West? He is quite right. Last year will be hourly pay of the | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
average Somerset employee grew well in excess of CPI inflation. The | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
south-west has a particularly strong rate of employment but driving real | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
wage growth we have to see productivity gains, hence the focus | :19:31. | :19:39. | |
on making sure we have an attractive tax regime that brings jobs to that | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
region and this country. There are 400,000 fewer people earning over | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
?20,000 and there were in 2010 because the Chancellor has been | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
cutting up full-time jobs and replacing them with more part-time, | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
low-paid jobs. What is he doing to lift productivity, research and | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
development to raise average wages and to raise median wages as well? | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
The lowest earners experience the fastest growth in medium earnings | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
last year and recent growth has been dominated by full-time workers in | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
contrast to what he says. We have comprehends a plan for driving | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
productivity and the national living wage is a very dramatic, long-term | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
structural change. Number four, Mr Speaker. Our long-term plan is to | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
turn round a decades-old economic divide between North and south by | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
building a northern powerhouse. We said we would create powerful new | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
elected mayors. That's happening. We said we'd speed up transport | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
connections across the North and we committed 13 billion of investment. | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
And into my honourable friend's Cumbria, there is a new enterprise | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
zone, new parents and nuclear research. The North is growing under | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
this government and we will do everything we can to keep it growing | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
strongly. I, like many of my constituents in Carlisle and | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
Cumbria, hope to be very much part of the northern powerhouse. Part of | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
this is ensuring that the private sector investor grows skills and of | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
the structure and then there is the proposed Cumbrian deal. Can the | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
Chancellor assure me that everything is being done from the government's | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
perspective to achieve this deal, and will an elected mayor be part of | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
it? As my honourable friend knows, and he is a real champion not just | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
of Carlisle but of Cumbria and the Cumbrian economy, we are working | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
with local authority leaders and other elected representatives on | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
whether we can have a new governance arrangement in Cumbria which might | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
include an elected mayor. This is a decision for Cumbria but they have | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
come to us with this proposal and we are working hard with the people of | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
Cumbria to see whether we can get an arrangement that boosts jobs, boost | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
investment and makes sure that decisions that affect Cumbria are | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
taken in Cumbria. Does the northern powerhouse occur in Redcar, where | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
the steel industry has been closed because of him allowing the Chinese | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
to break steel? Are they talking about it at Scunthorpe, where | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
they've lost more than 1000 jobs? Are they talking about it at Port | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
Talbot, where they are going to lose a lot more jobs? The truth is, they | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
don't talk about the northern powerhouse in the coalfields where | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
the Tories have shot the last three pits. They call it the northern Peru | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
house. That's its real name. -- He seems to forget that the Redcar | :22:35. | :22:50. | |
works closed under the Labour government that he supports. It is | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
also the case that during that government but he supported from | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
that bench there, the number of steel jobs lost in this country was | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
30,000. We are doing everything we can to preserve the steel jobs that | :23:02. | :23:03. | |
remain. We are working with the steel industry. We have ceded to | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
almost all their requests we are looking to the last one, which is | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
changes to business rates, which never happened under a Labour | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
government, and we will report in the budget on that. We are working | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
to make this a competitive place to do business and if one really | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
adopted the policies of the party opposite, where you don't pay | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
dividends to investors and you reintroduce flying pickets, do you | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
really think a single overseas investor would be expanding their | :23:32. | :23:39. | |
business in the UK? Number five. The government is fighting hard to fix | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
the aspects of our EU membership, the cause of so much restriction in | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
the UK, so we get a better deal for our country and secure our future. | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
We are confident that the right agreement can be reached. Jaguar | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
Land Rover have recently announced that they're going to double the | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
investment in a brand-new engine plant in my constituency, creating | :24:01. | :24:02. | |
hundreds of additional jobs on top of the 1400 they have or the amount. | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
Does the Minister agree with me that unfettered access to the single | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
market dries this sort of investment and if we were to walk away or | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
sacrifice that access, those jobs and that investment could be put at | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
risk? First of all, I also welcome the new jobs being created near her | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
constituency by Jaguar Land Rover. My honourable friend the Chancellor | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
visited that site very recently. In terms of our relationship with the | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
EU, the position of the Government is very clear. We want the benefits | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
of access to the single market but there are also aspects of our | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
relationship with the EU which can be improved upon and that's what we | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
are seeking to do in our renegotiation. Given that last year | :24:51. | :24:58. | |
we had a ?62 billion trade deficit with the European Union and given | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
that if we left the EU, the UK would be the EU's single biggest export | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
market, does the Minister think we could have a free trade agreement | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
with the EU from outside the European Union without handing over | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
?19 billion a year in membership fees? Well, I'm sure that that issue | :25:16. | :25:23. | |
will be one of the issues discussed at length during the referendum | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
debate, and the point is that under this government, the British people | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
will have an opportunity to express its views on where our future lies. | :25:32. | :25:41. | |
Britain has been a substantial net contributor to the EU budget. For 40 | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
years this has had a negative effect on UK growth in GDP, the cumulative | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
effect of which has been very large. Would not leaving the EU help UK | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
growth? I suppose 1.I would beg to the honourable member is that thanks | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
to Margaret Thatcher's renegotiation of the rebate and thanks to the | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
current Prime Minister's ago she Asian of the EU budget, resulting in | :26:04. | :26:11. | |
a real terms cut, we are paying less than we would have done. -- by | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
minister's renegotiation of the EU budget. Nonsense. | :26:17. | :26:27. | |
Would she not agree that it would be important to pay the real living | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
wage, ?8 25 per hour, in the rest of the UK and ?9 40 in London, as is | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
done by the Scottish Government and over 400 employees in Scotland, so | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
that it is fair for all employees, particularly those under 25? I'm | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
glad she welcomes the fact that, as of April this year, all employees | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
across the whole of the UK over 25 will be getting a significant pay | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
rise, and that's thanks to the strength of employment across the | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
UK, which is thanks to our long-term economic plan. | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
By my calculation someone earns ?7.85 per hour today will be | :27:09. | :27:17. | |
benefiting and by the end of this parliament will be more than ?1500 | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
later. Does my honourable friend agree that this shows that | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
Government is committed to making work pay? The honourable member | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
makes an excellent point, and in fact it has been highlighted that it | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
is not just that 2.5 million people will be directly benefiting from the | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
change to the National Living Wage, but also to 6 million people who | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
make salaries and very close to that hourly rate. When is the Chancellor | :27:48. | :27:56. | |
and the present Minister going to give public sector workers a decent | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
pay rise for the jobs that they do frost? Of course we believe that | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
every worker in this country will benefit from the change to the | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
National Living Wage, because it is an important part of the long-term | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
economic plan. But he will know that this year public sector workers | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
actually received raises that work above inflation. The Minister has | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
spoken importantly about the principle of making work pay. Will | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
she give further consideration to extending married couples' tax | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
allowance so that more families can keep more of what they earn? I will | :28:36. | :28:44. | |
take that as a budget 's omission. -- budget submission. The Government | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
is backing business by cutting their taxes. To support small businesses | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
the employment allowance will rise in April and we are doubling | :28:59. | :29:06. | |
business small rate relief. We will back companies not punish them with | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
the anti-business nonsense we hear from the party opposite. Will be | :29:14. | :29:30. | |
Chancellor join me in congratulating... I John with my | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
honourable friend in congratulating the work they are doing in investing | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
on South Wales transport infrastructure. We are back in | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
companies with this annual investment allowance of ?200,000, | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
the highest level it has ever been. Will the Chancellor tell us what | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
step he ensures to take to make sure the quarterly tax returns coming in | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
2020 will not harm small businesses in constituencies like mine and | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
actually affected their productivity and their ability to make profits? | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
My honourable friend is right that the objective of what we are seeking | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
to do is to make it easier for businesses and individuals to | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
complete their tax returns by making use of modern digital technology and | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
introducing a simple and secure at personalised digital tax account. We | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
estimate it will reduce the administrative cost to businesses. | :30:29. | :30:36. | |
The best way to support manufacturing businesses in the | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
Midlands would be to free the region from London's control. The region | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
has been stifled by Whitehall for too long. To strengthen the economy, | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
develop Brownfield sites and tackle congestion, we will deliver new | :30:52. | :30:58. | |
homes. We have a deal. That is exactly what we are doing with the | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
west Midlands and we worked across different political parties. I have | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
met with Labour and Conservative authority leaders and members of | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
Parliament from both parties in the West Midlands who collectively | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
agreed to have an elected mayor and you have significant powers from the | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
Government to the people of the West midlands. I think it is one of the | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
most exciting step forward in the devolution of power in this country. | :31:23. | :31:29. | |
What further discussions have taken place in devolved administrations | :31:30. | :31:38. | |
about the introduction of fiscal incentives for apprenticeships and | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
economic growth? We are in discussion with the Northern | :31:43. | :31:44. | |
Ireland's executive about what we can do to support the economy. One | :31:45. | :31:51. | |
of the things we would really like to see is the devolution of | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
corporation tax rates which we have legislated for and provided we can | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
reach agreement on the budget implications of that that would be a | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
massive boost for Northern Irish businesses. I welcome the chance | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
were's reduction in the corporation tax that has helped so many jobs to | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
be created. Does he agree that some businesses cannot grow despite this | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
measure because of a local infrastructure constraints such as | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
those that need addressing in my constituency? My honourable friend | :32:25. | :32:31. | |
is absolutely right. We are investing in transport | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
infrastructure in the Southampton area and along the south coast | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
because we understand that all parts of the country can benefit from | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
additional investment in transport infrastructure. That is why we are | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
increasingly transport budget even at a time when public budgets are | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
tight. None of these things would be affordable if you crash the economy. | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
The introduction of quarterly reporting for tax returns has been | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
described by the Institute for chartered accountants at an | :33:00. | :33:01. | |
additional burden for business. Does he understand the very real anger | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
among businesses and my constituency and around the country that they are | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
being penalised while many of the largest corporations are allowed to | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
avoid a tax altogether? We have increased our action against | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
large-scale corporate tax avoidance and evasion, and the new diverted | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
profits tax is designed to deal with the very real anger that people | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
feel, particularly in the small-business community, when the | :33:30. | :33:31. | |
see large businesses not being taxed. We are dealing also with the | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
burdens of tax administration, consulting with small businesses. It | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
would be crazy as a country not to make use of new digital technology | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
and the Internet to update and modernise our tax collection system, | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
and we would regret not taking those steps today as we let other | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
countries power ahead and reduce the burdens on business. Mr Speaker, the | :33:53. | :34:01. | |
Government has taken a range of steps to reduce the trade deficit. | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
The 2010, UK TI has more than doubled the number of businesses | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
supported and UK Export Finance has provided more than 15 billion pounds | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
of support. Allies are earlier this month when I met entrepreneurs in | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
Edinburgh, many start-ups and exporters in Scotland greatly | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
appreciate the UK TI systems. And welcome the Government's | :34:26. | :34:37. | |
announcement this morning. It is not credible for the Minister to | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
continue with a policy which has failed and resulted last year in a | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
deficit in the trade of goods. We all want to see reduced dependence | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
on consumer debt, but is it not time for him to admit the UK Government | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
policy has failed. I gently suggest revision. The trade deficit is | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
actually improving and the Cheryl GDP and is expected to continue to | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
do so in the OBR forecast. What I can say, what would be an absolute | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
disaster would BDSM people's Mac policy of call fiscal independence | :35:10. | :35:17. | |
-- the SNP's policy. Added to which would be the collapse in oil price. | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
Revenues would be down this year a staggering 94%. This would be a | :35:25. | :35:32. | |
disaster for Scotland. I welcome the Commons made earlier by the | :35:33. | :35:35. | |
Chancellor about export initiatives to India, but will my honourable | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
friend welcome the enjoy -- join me in welcoming efforts to boost | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
exports in the north-west the Northern Powerhouse? I very much and | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
my honourable friend in welcoming that, particularly with reference to | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
exporters to China and India which have been a great success. The UK TI | :35:57. | :36:04. | |
is doing what it can to support this, and providing tailored support | :36:05. | :36:11. | |
for first-time exporters, and additional 20 million, and | :36:12. | :36:18. | |
supporting Northern Powerhouse trade solutions. The British Chambers of | :36:19. | :36:27. | |
commerce are reporting that it will take not four years but another 18 | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
years. Will be Chancellor not accept that this is clearer evidence that | :36:33. | :36:40. | |
his effort to reduce the trade deficit are failing and will | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
continue to fail? I think the UK has a good future in terms of the trade | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
deficit and improving statistics. In terms of UK TI, I think the UK TI | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
will also be playing an important role. The announcements we made | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
today on trade policy, one of the most important things we can be | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
doing at the Hall of Government approach is improving the approach | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
we take to trade and boosting our exports. In South Thanet we have a | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
niche amusement machine manufacturer, and the supply global | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
export markets. What help and support can my honourable friend | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
offer so that we can really achieve that cross Government approach to | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
exports that has been lodged today -- launched today? I have been quite | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
a few times to his constituency over the last year and a half. I don't | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
think I have had the particular pleasure of meeting with that | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
company, but I'm happy to meet with my honourable friend and with that | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
company to see what could be done to help exporters in South Thanet. The | :37:49. | :37:58. | |
concrete products industry used to have a surplus on the balance of | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
payments but no has a deficit of hundreds of millions of pounds. This | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
is due to the levy on products made in the United Kingdom but not on | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
imported products and has been thousands of jobs in jeopardy. With | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
the Minister consider imposing the same tax on goods produced abroad as | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
is imposed on goods produced here in the UK? I am happy to look in detail | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
at the points he raised. My understanding is there have been | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
legal challenges to aspects of the aggregates Levy which are prevented | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
us from addressing some of these issues, but I'm happy to engage with | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
him on an ongoing basis to see what could be done better. Since 2010 we | :38:39. | :38:51. | |
have cut corporation tax and will cut its further to eating percent by | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
2020. Yup then the annual investment level at its highest ever level. -- | :38:57. | :39:04. | |
we have set. And UK TI announced today support for exporters. Is the | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
minister concerned about recent figures showing the manufacturing | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
sector is back in recession and what is he intend to do about it? We have | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
to get behind the manufacturing sector, that is at the heart of this | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
Government's approach and long-term economic plan and the heart of the | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
productivity plan. Do things like giving enhanced access to leading | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
technologies and catapult centres, things like the apprenticeship where | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
the making sure we build up our skills, making sure we attract more | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
teachers and to stem subjects, and a whole range of other initiatives. | :39:41. | :39:49. | |
Can I have my honourable friend what steps are being taken to assist and | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
encourage small businesses to become expanding, exporting businesses? -- | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
can I ask? UK TI has an ambition to increase the number of exporting | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
businesses. There are a number of aspects of that, moving to more | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
direct support as well as advice from some of the leading export | :40:12. | :40:19. | |
agencies in the world. And making sure that we leverage existing | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
Government relationships with firms and sectors for the whole of | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
Government approach. The UK economy is still to dependent on consumer | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
spending to drive growth and the Government should start being sought | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
complacent and self-congratulatory. With the risk of Brexit this year | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
only making things worse, what will this Government do to expand | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
manufacturing exports? Exports are a challenge. There has been a | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
long-term change in the UK's share of world trade, but I would say the | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
majority of it came before 2010. An honest point about -- on his point | :41:01. | :41:11. | |
about business expense of -- consumption expenditure... Will my | :41:12. | :41:13. | |
honourable friend please agree with me that supporting engineering and | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
manufacturing is absolutely essential to our economy and | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
productivity and we must do all we can to address the skills gap that | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
is threatening local jobs and businesses in my constituency and | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
around the country? I absolutely agree with my honourable friend | :41:30. | :41:32. | |
about the importance of engineering and the evidence that was shown in | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
the spending review and Autumn Statement with enhanced support for | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
science as well as the apprenticeship levy which is an | :41:45. | :41:46. | |
important structural change in the way we invest in our skills base. | :41:47. | :41:55. | |
Five years ago the Chancellor said he would rebalance the economy | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
towards manufacturing, exports and the regions. The Director General of | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
the British Chamber of Commerce recently said, and I quote, none of | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
those things have actually transpired in practice yet. Why not? | :42:09. | :42:17. | |
Mr Speaker, we are rebalancing the economy and it is a long-term and | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
sustained programme. It is the long-term economic plan. We have | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
talked about some of the enhanced support for science, technology, | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
engineering and mathematics, and the apprenticeship levy, the catapult | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
centres giving British business access to the best in leading-edge | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
technology. There are some things in international trade we cannot | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
control. There is bad news from China. We cannot control the world | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
exchange rates but there are things we can control in terms of | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
supporting tissue exporters and we are absolutely doing those. There we | :42:51. | :42:52. | |
go again. It is everybody's fault but this | :42:53. | :43:08. | |
government. But here is the truth. The Chancellor promised to boost | :43:09. | :43:10. | |
manufacturing but instead it is in recession. Manufacturing output is | :43:11. | :43:12. | |
6.1% below its previous crisis peak and falling. The British Chamber of | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
Commerce's survey found manufacturing post to stagnation | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
with export, sales and orders falling. And yet instead of helping | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
the sector, the Chancellor close to the manufacturing advice service in | :43:25. | :43:26. | |
November without so much as a mention. Is it not true that British | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
businesses and families are now paying a heavy price for this | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
Chancellor's feelings? -- failings. That is not true. This promotion is | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
at the heart of the government's approach. We should not forget that | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
services are a big part of the economy, a bigger part. The overall | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
performance of the British economy is that we have the highest growth | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
rate of the G-7 countries in 2014, and the joint highest in 2015. We | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
have rising real wages and more people in jobs than ever before. | :44:04. | :44:14. | |
Question ten, Mr Speaker. Following on, employment stands at 31.3 | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
million, which as I have just said, is more people in work than ever | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
before. In the past year, growth has been driven by full-time employees | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
in high and medium skilled jobs, showing we are moving to the next | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
phase of the recovery with high-quality employment boosting | :44:32. | :44:33. | |
productivity and living standards nationwide. I thank the Minister for | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
his reply. In my constituency, youth unemployment has halved in the last | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
year and it is now lower for the whole of the West Midlands. Will the | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
Minister agree with me that this is excellent news for Telford and it | :44:50. | :44:51. | |
shows that the economic plan is working? I am delighted with that | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
news from my honourable friend's constituency and I agree with her. | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
Across the West Midlands, youth unemployment has fallen by almost a | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
quarter, with the rate returning to prerecession levels. Westminster saw | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
the fastest growth in earnings among the English regions and there are | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
140,000 more people in work than 2010. One of the leading employers | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
in Stoke on Trent is the supplement industry and part of the growth in | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
recent years has been due to the anti-dumping ruling by the EU on | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
subsidised Chinese imports. Shamefully, the British Government | :45:34. | :45:36. | |
opposed this. Will the Minister now commit the government to supporting | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
the renewal of this anti-dumping ruling when it comes up? The | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
government of course raises all issues about dumping and unfair | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
trade practices as and when they come up. I would be happy to look at | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
what he's saying about ceramics in Stoke-on-Trent. 12, Mr Speaker. HMRC | :45:56. | :46:02. | |
announced its location strategy on the 12th of November and as I have | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
stated, delivering that strategy will help HMRC to deliver more for | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
less and reduce costs by 2025. I and HMRC have received representations | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
from interested parties, most recently with my honourable friends, | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
the members for Rochdale and the south-west. Following the meeting | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
that my honourable friend had with myself and the honourable friend for | :46:27. | :46:34. | |
Rochdale, would my honourable friend reflect further on the points made | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
about Southend are becoming a regional centre. Will he make sure | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
that the hard work, dedicated staff of Alexandra house are treated well? | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
-- the hard-working. My honourable friend made his representations in a | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
robust and fourth White Way in our meeting yesterday and I'm sure that | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
HMRC are reflecting on that. -- robust and forthright. Redeeming the | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
staff relocated, the staff will have additional transport costs | :47:07. | :47:08. | |
compensated for for up to three years. And they will also benefit | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
from London weighting, given that they will be moving from Stratford. | :47:12. | :47:21. | |
Is anything going to be done about the depressing handling of HMRC and | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
can the Minister suggest an improvement? Coal handling is at a | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
higher level than it has been for many years. It was certainly the | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
case that in spring of last year, coal handling standards were not at | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
an acceptable level. HMRC have made improvements to that and I hope they | :47:40. | :47:47. | |
will continue to make that progress. Number 14, please, Mr Speaker. The | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
government is exploring options to ensure that the England and Wales | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
illegal moneylending teams have the funding they need to ensure that | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
consumers continue to be protected from illegal loan sharks and is | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
confident of transitional arrangements being agreed. Too many | :48:04. | :48:12. | |
of my constituents are victims of loan sharks. The illegal | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
moneylending team has helped nearly 24,000 across the country yet this | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
government has treated this service with disdain. Won't the cuts to this | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
vital team and to local trading standards make the poorest more | :48:26. | :48:32. | |
vulnerable? Far from agreeing with his point, we are finding ways to | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
put this team on a sustainable basis going forward to continue the | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
valuable work that they do protecting people from illegal | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
moneylending. Topical questions, Gareth Johnson. Question one. The | :48:45. | :48:52. | |
core purpose of the Treasury is to ensure the stability and prosperity | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
of the economy. I exit fees act as a disincentive for people to take | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
advantage of flexible pensions. Does the Chancellor agree with me that | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
tackling these higher fees is essential to give people freedom | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
over their own pensions? My honourable friend raises an | :49:13. | :49:14. | |
important issue. The pension freedoms we have introduced have | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
been widely welcomed. We have over 700,000 people eligible to pay some | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
form of early exit charge. The government is not prepared to stand | :49:24. | :49:26. | |
by and see people ripped off or blocked from accessing their own | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
money by excessive charges. We have listened to the concerns and the | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
newspaper campaigns that have been run. Today, we are known to change | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
the law to place a duty on the Financial Conduct Authority to cap | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
excessive early exit charges, and we are determined that people who have | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
done the right thing and saved responsibly are able to access their | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
pensions fairly. Mr Speaker, recent statistics show that household debt | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
is now at a record high. Back in 2010, the Chancellor promised to | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
move from an economy built on debt to an economy that saves. Can the | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
Chancellor confirmed today why the figures contradict his original | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
promise? Isil debt as a proportion of household income was 168% in 2008 | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
and today it is 142%, so it has fallen. -- household debt. This | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
Chancellor has given more than any before him towards the cause of | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
looking after our veterans in this country and for that I thank him | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
wholeheartedly. Does he agree that whilst the charity sector has a key | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
role to play, ultimately there is a state responsibility and we must | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
make sure that government money is used on Intel agreed measured | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
treatments for our veterans and their families? -- empirically | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
measured. My honourable friend has personal experience in this area and | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
represents a constituency that has given so much to the defence of our | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
nation. He is right that as well as the live or fines, which were used | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
for one-off causes to help military charities, we have the Armed Forces | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
covenant and the annual commitment to support veterans. I'm always | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
happy to look at specific projects that we can invest in or on going | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
concerns we can deal with. The collapse of UK manufacturing has | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
been going on for 50 years, from 30% of the economy in the 1970s to less | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
than 10% today. More than 20% of all jobs in the 1980s, to only 8% today. | :51:27. | :51:34. | |
Given the length of the decline, why has the government not made | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
manufacturing and exports one of its top priorities? We have backed our | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
manufacturers and our exporters and we have cut corporation tax and cut | :51:44. | :51:46. | |
other taxes that affect these businesses. We have reformed UK | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
Trade Investment and as a result, the manufacturing sector is a larger | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
share of our economy than it was when I became Chancellor but there | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
is a lot more to do. I would say to her and the Scottish Government, we | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
want to work more closely with Scotland on overseas trade missions | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
where we can promote Scottish businesses. We do not always get | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
that cooperation but hopefully it will be forthcoming in the future. | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
Whilst I welcome the government's move towards the digitalisation of | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
tax, a number of small businesses and self across my region, | :52:19. | :52:25. | |
approximately 74% of them employ less than four people and they have | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
voiced concerns about the negative affect on their financial resources, | :52:31. | :52:32. | |
depending on their alliance with a county. Could my honourable friend | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
outline what support will be provided to our small businesses to | :52:38. | :52:44. | |
help adapt to the proposed changes? First of all, can I reassure the | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
House that there are no plans for quarterly tax returns as has been | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
reported. What HMRC are looking at is making greater use of digital | :52:54. | :52:59. | |
technology and that information is provided to HMRC more regularly. My | :53:00. | :53:01. | |
honourable friend raises an important point about ensuring that | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
there is support for businesses as they adapt to new ways of keeping | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
records and that is something that HMRC is determined to do. The | :53:10. | :53:20. | |
Midlands engine has been turbo-charged with recent figures | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
showing four Staffordshire constituencies in the top seven of | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
those ranked by the extent of falling claimant rates between May | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
of 2010 and November 2015, with Canada to chase being ranked fourth. | :53:35. | :53:42. | |
What matters is my honourable friend undertaking to make sure we maintain | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
this positive momentum? There has been good news in Cannock and across | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
the Midlands and employment is up in her constituency. Since coming to | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
this House, she has been a champion of the businesses in her area, we | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
are working together to give more power to people in the West | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
Midlands, to take control of the decisions that affect them. I | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
welcome her support for that. We are investing in transport | :54:10. | :54:11. | |
infrastructure and backing science in the West Midlands as well. If she | :54:12. | :54:18. | |
has specific ideas to help businesses in Cannock Chase, my door | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
is open. Can I ask the Chancellor how on earth a ?42 million cut over | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
the next two years to the UK TI budget will enable the UK to become | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
a world-class export and investment promotion agency? We have set out | :54:33. | :54:39. | |
today the strategy to give more direct help to our exporters across | :54:40. | :54:42. | |
the United Kingdom and Lord Maude presented at the proposals to | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
cabinets to do that. But getting lectures on public finances from the | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
SNP, we would be heading towards the break-up of our country in two | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
months' time if the people of Scotland have listened to the | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
arguments of the Scottish Nationalists. Their calculation is | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
were based on an oil price of $115, which the Member for Gordon | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
described as a conservative estimate at the time. The oil price is now | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
last than $30 and it would've been a catastrophe for the people of | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
Scotland. -- less than $30. It would been a catastrophe if they had | :55:16. | :55:17. | |
listened to the advice and figures of the SNP. | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
Whatever it is the government making to widen access to basic bank | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
accounts? -- what matters is the government making. I am delighted to | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
tell my constituency neighbour that at the end of last year we did | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
announce that all the major banks are now able to offer a basic bank | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
account to customers who require one. Many of my constituents who | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
watch Coronation Street will be following the story of Tyrone Dodds, | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
struggling with debt, with keen interest. Unsecured lending reached | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
a record high last year with over 3 million people in debt. The | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
government promised to review what creditors should give the people | :56:04. | :56:06. | |
engaged with a debt charities that their debts to not continue to | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
spiral out of control as they work to resolve them. That was due by the | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
end of 2015. When does the government plan to announce that? I | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
have just touched on that in answers to questions earlier, but the | :56:20. | :56:23. | |
importance that we place on the team that will tackle illegal | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
moneylending. But also, we have continued to support funding for | :56:29. | :56:34. | |
debt advice including excellent organisations like Christians | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
against poverty, step change and citizens advice, to help individuals | :56:39. | :56:39. | |
like the ones she mentioned. On Friday I visited Barclay's Bank | :56:40. | :56:49. | |
in Kingston to hear about the fantastic Barclays life skills | :56:50. | :56:52. | |
course which teaches young people, among other things, financial | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
literacy. I can see some candidates for the course here. By making | :56:58. | :57:02. | |
financial education more accessible, to she agreed that we can ensure the | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
financial sector itself supports young people and people through | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
every stage of their lives? I am delighted that he found his | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
visit to Barclays Bank in his constituency so helpful, he will | :57:16. | :57:21. | |
welcome the fact that since 2014, financial education has been part of | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
the national curriculum. Conservative leader of Essex County | :57:28. | :57:30. | |
Council has told the Prime Minister that the 2% social care precept will | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
only cover half the council's increased costs. He has suggested | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
bringing better care funding forward to 2017 and asks for a fairer | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
redistribution of funds. Even Conservative councils had to wait | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
until 2019 for the funding that the Chancellor is allocated. Will he act | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
now to avoid a further crisis in social care? What I can say is that | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
in advance of the spending review, the Conservative leaders of the LGA | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
came to me, one of their specific oppose laws was to introduce the | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
social care precept to help address the shortfall that might otherwise | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
have been. We have put a lot of money into the Better Care Than to | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
make sure that local authorities and the NHS working together are able to | :58:18. | :58:20. | |
meet the challenges of social care over the next few years. Inaudible | :58:21. | :58:29. | |
in boosting the economy has been the creation of enterprise zones. I | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
wonder if he would talk about creating an enterprise zone in the | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
northern part of Nottinghamshire? I know that area and have been to the | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
site with my honourable friend. We were not able to give the go-ahead | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
to the enterprise zone because the business case did not quite stack | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
up, but I have committed to him that I will work with him and the local | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
community to try to get that over the line and get an enterprise zone | :58:55. | :59:00. | |
in place in that area. I had just shared a packed meeting | :59:01. | :59:08. | |
with the honourable member for South Northamptonshire. There was a lot of | :59:09. | :59:14. | |
anger to axe the funding for the CC competition projects. What a funding | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
will the Chancellor provide to come up with a new CC is project? -- CCS | :59:19. | :59:31. | |
project? Help we will double in. Don't leave the chamber, man, I | :59:32. | :59:32. | |
calling you! You are very kind. The member for | :59:33. | :59:41. | |
Sherwood had already asked the same question, that I will ask it again, | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
that is not unusual in this place. My parents formed their small | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
business in the first enterprise zone created when Margaret Thatcher | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
in Telford in 1984. My right honourable friend the Chancellor has | :59:56. | :59:59. | |
carried on in that great Conservative tradition. Could he | :00:00. | :00:02. | |
afford the same opportunities to get on in life and to create jobs to my | :00:03. | :00:08. | |
constituents and those in Sherwood by backing Thoresby colliery as the | :00:09. | :00:14. | |
next and best enterprise zone? I think he has just demonstrated that | :00:15. | :00:17. | |
he is a very smart thinker on his feet and always ready to stand for | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
the interests of his new constituents. As I said to the | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
member for Sherwood, I would love to get the full spree cholerae | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
enterprise zone into a condition where we can give it the go-ahead, | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
and I give him and his neighbour my personal commitment that we will try | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
to do that over the next year or so. The fact that question has been | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
asked does not stop others asking the same question. Repetition is not | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
a novel phenomenon and banners of commons. | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
Can I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to ponder the fact that we | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
still have not really tackled productivity in this country. Can I | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
guide him and say could he and his department look at the way in which | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
we further invest in manufacturing skills, because surely he will agree | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
with me that what we want in this country is high skills, high-paid | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
jobs, and you find those in manufacturing? I think the | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
honourable gentlemen is right to draw attention to the fact that the | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
UK has had a productivity challenge for many decades, and the financial | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
crisis caused a significant impairment which had an impact as | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
well. Productivity is improving, but the key weakness in the British | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
economy, consistently identified by everyone who looks at it, is a | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
weakness of skills. Hopefully the apprenticeship levy and the | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
expansion of the apprenticeship programme will go some way to | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
address that historic weakness. (INAUDIBLE) | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
In improving financial inclusion and creating a stronger savings culture. | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
With the opportunity of a Will Counsel For Credit Unions coming to | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
the UK and Northern Ireland later in media, will he continue to build on | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
the work of the credit union expansion programme and back this | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
vital work? I other constituency neighbour is a fine advocate for the | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
excellent industry of credit unions. As he will know, we have back the | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
industry with ?38 million of investment in terms of the credit | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
union expansion project, we will continue to seek ways to back the | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
credit unions. Given that manufacturing remained | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
6.1% below precrisis levels with worrying trends in the manufacture, | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
plant, machinery and pharmaceuticals, will he accept that | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
he and his domestic policy agenda has just as much should an impact as | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
the global factors which he is so keen to blame? He must bear in | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
measure of responsibility and come forward with proposals to halt the | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
decline. Manufacturing makes of a larger | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
sector of the economy than when I became the Chancellor, but there is | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
a huge amount more to do to make the UK more competitive, businesses more | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
competitive, improve skills for manufacturers and the like. I have | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
to say, I suspect she agrees, that the idea of banning manufacturers | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
from paying dividends would not be a particularly sensible way forward. | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
That is another policy of the Labour Party, unfortunately. | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
Is he aware that since he took office in May 2010, the claimant | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
count my constituency has fallen by 62% and the youth unemployment count | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
by 67%? Would he agree that reducing corporation Tax, increasing the | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
personal allowance and reforming welfare has caused these fantastic | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
figures, would he confirmed that his long-term economic plan will | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
continue? We will absolutely deliver the plan in these more difficult | :03:47. | :03:54. | |
global economic conditions. The IMF have not revised down the UK credit | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
forecast, even though they have revised down the global economic | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
forecast. We will invest in Croydon and South London with important | :04:04. | :04:05. | |
transport infrastructure and do everything we can to back homeowners | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
in his constituency, a group I know he particularly champions. | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
Can I return the City Minister to the issue of the cancelled FCA | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
inquiry into culture. The member for Chichester's Parliamentary banking | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
inquiry pointed out that murder on the orient express excuse, everyone | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
was partly responsible but no one was really to blame. She said that | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
ministers had no role in the cancellation of batting wary, will | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
she say, yes or no, whether any civil servants did? -- the | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
cancellation of that inquiry. No. We must move on, demand always | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
exceed supply. We come now to the urgent question, | :04:50. | :04:58. | |
Vista Stephen Phillips? -- Mr Stephen Phillips. (INAUDIBLE) | :04:59. | :05:09. | |
to as the Secretary of State it she will make a statement as to the | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
death from Ebola virus disease of a 22-year-old student in Sierra Leone | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
on the 12th of January 2016? We will come to points of order, they come | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
after urgent questions. I will await the honourable lady's inquiry with | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
interest. To answer the question, the Secretary of State for | :05:33. | :05:34. | |
International Development. Thank you, Mr Speaker, and, indeed, | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
many happy returns. The house will be aware, as my | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
honourable friend has just said, that there is a new case of Ebola | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
that has been confirmed in Sierra Leone. A 22-year-old female student | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
sadly died on the 12th of January. This latest case of Ebola in Sierra | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
Leone demonstrates that we need to stay vigilant. The news came just as | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
the world health organisation formally declared the bowler | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
outbreak in West Africa over following Liberia reaching 22 days | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
without a new case. However, it is not unexpected given the context of | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
this unprecedented outbreak. This new case was identified from a swab | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
taken after death and is currently being investigated. The government | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
of Sierra Leone has activated its national Ebola response plan and | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
rapid work is under way to identify and quarantine people who have had | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
contact with the young woman and to establish a movement in the final | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
few days and weeks before her death. Teams in five district are acting on | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
this information. No other cases have been confirmed to date. | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
The speed of this process reflects the work UK has undertaken with the | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
government of Sierra Leone to develop a national response plan. As | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
the IDC report says, the UK has been at the forefront of the global | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
response to the Ebola outbreak in West Africa. From the very start, | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
leading in Sierra Leone, working hand-in-hand with the government of | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
Sierra Leone, we took on this deadly disease at source by rapidly | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
deploying the best British military personnel and NHS staff, Public | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
Health England, building treatment centres in a matter of weeks, | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
mobilising the international response. We have worked with the | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
government of Sierra Leone to build a health systems and strengthen all | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
aspects of society, including civil society, to allow them to be | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
prepared. We stand by Sierra Leone, as we have always been clear, there | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
is the potential for further cases, which is precisely why our response | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
now is focused on assisting Sierra Leone in isolating and treating any | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
view cases of Ebola before they spread. | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
-- any new cases. I am grateful to her for coming to the house | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
purposely today to answer questions on that subject. I am grateful for | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
her leadership during the Ebola outbreak of 2014/15, as well as to | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
the brave military and civilian personnel who travelled to Sierra | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
Leone to help West Africa in that period. On the 7th of November last | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
year, the world health organisation declared Sierra Leone free of Ebola | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
following a 42 day period during which no new cases were reported. As | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
my right honourable friend has said, the WHO made a further declaration | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
to be fed that the outbreak of Ebola in West Africa was over. My right | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
honourable friends would have been dismayed at the reports yesterday of | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
the death of this young woman from Ebola in the northern Tonkolil | :08:42. | :08:50. | |
district, particularly as she seems to have travelled through three | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
other provinces in the infectious stages. What steps her she taken to | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
determine the source of this outbreak? Is she confident that it | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
can be contained, given the burial customs observed do not seem to the | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
procedures to prevent further contamination? Are the quarantine | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
measures sufficient to ensure that widespread transmission of the virus | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
is unlikely? The assistance provided by the UK during the last out | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
because the British taxpayer ?427 million. My right honourable friend | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
will remember that I first asked about that outbreak on the 18th of | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
June 2014, at a stage when the number of cases was in the tens | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
rather than the thousands. None of this wishes to see a further | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
significant outbreak. Is she working with her officials, the government | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
of Sierra Leone and the WHO to ensure we get on top of the problem | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
at a stage when relatively few individuals are likely to have been | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
exposed? It is fair to say that the worst epidemiological predictions | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
during the last outbreak did not materialise, but more than 11,300 | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
people in Africa died of Ebola in 2014/ 15. Many more died of | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
preventable diseases, which an overburdened and fragile health | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
system was not able to deal with at the same time as Ebola. What funding | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
will she make available to the government of Sierra Leone and NGOs | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
in the region to deal with the outbreak and to establish long-term | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
resilience in the health care system for dealing with a disease which may | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
be endemic in the region? Has she held discussions with Ministry of | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
Defence colleagues about the potential for assistance to ensure | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
the disease does not spread further? Does she have confidence at the | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
failings demonstrated by the WHO in the past will not be repeated. To | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
what extent it she confident that there are not further cases of Ebola | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
in Liberia and Guinea? A retesting of samples taken from individuals | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
who died in the ten years prior to the 2014/15 outbreak indicates that | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
Ebola may have been present in West Africa football than a decade, to | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
the extent that it is now endemic, what measures will she and the | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
government support leading to the development of an effective vaccine | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
for the virus, when did she expected to be available? The previous | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
outbreak of Ebola and spread across an interconnected world indicated | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
the threat from the -- to the United Kingdom. Direct flights every | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
comments from Sierra Leone to London, but she will know the | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
previous band was unnecessary and counter-productive. Can she assure | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
the house and the Sierra Leonean diaspora that the mistakes of | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
banning direct flights will not be repeated? The long-term prognosis of | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
those previously infected is not well understood by the medical | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
profession. In cases like that of Pauline Cafferkey, we know it can | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
hide in the body for periods of time. Is the Department of Health | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
aware of the re-emergence in patients who have previously | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
survived the disease? What assistance is being given in West | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
Africa to ensure the long-term health of those who have survived | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
Ebola and may still be able to pass it on to others? What if any | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
monitoring project is her department intend to fund so the disease is | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
stamped out both for individuals in the region and to ensure the | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
bio-security of the UK and those who live here? | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
Before the Secretary of State answers, let me say to the | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
honourable and learned gentleman that his error condition today, | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
which is never in doubt, has been equalled only why his length. -- | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
erudition. The honourable gentleman is a sophisticated denizen of the | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
House and he is dealing with a serious matter, but on top of that | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
the honourable and learned gentleman is an illustrious queens Counsel. | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
Perhaps I can express the hope that he does not charge as clients by the | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
word. If he does he will be a great deal richer than they -- and they | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
will be a great deal poorer. From now on we must try to stick to the | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
time limits and I say that in a good spirit because he has raised an | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
important issue and done it in an extremely intelligent way. But if we | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
can operate within the time limits from now on, the House would | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
appreciate it. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I must say I think he would | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
have achieved amazing value for money on the numbers of questions | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
for time spoken. I commend him on that. In response, to the very | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
serious issues that he raises, I think from the very beginning this | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
has been an unprecedented outbreak and we are seeing that even now in | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
the length of time this virus appears to stay in the body of | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
survivors after they fully recover. It is one of the reasons why part of | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
the work that we are doing within Sierra Leone, as we learn about the | :13:47. | :13:56. | |
invocations of this virus's persistence within survivors, is | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
mitigating the risks that it can be passed on, offering safe sex | :14:00. | :14:08. | |
counselling, and we have established a scene in testing and also ensuring | :14:09. | :14:16. | |
free access to health care. -- semen testing. It is critical that we | :14:17. | :14:25. | |
mitigate the risks of people passing on a disease that they might have | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
survived, and there is also a semen testing programme for those aged 15 | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
or above. We are working with the public health in the area to make | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
sure that this is in the mounted effectively. This is a country where | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
we saw subsequent cases happen after the people of free point. And that | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
is why we have been so vigilant. Indeed, it is the processes and the | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
systems and the testing that we have put in place with the government of | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
Sierra Leone and that has picked up this particular case and therefore | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
has enabled us to go through the process of contact tracing and | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
quarantine. Although it is known that this particular student had | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
travelled extensively, which makes our task harder. Therefore we work | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
harder, and we have set up mobile field hospitals that can rapidly get | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
to a district if we see an outbreak. He asked about Warren team measures | :15:30. | :15:38. | |
and those are being put in place and indeed, the contact tracing is | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
happening. -- quarantine measures. He asked about the funding which is | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
being put in place and how we are working more broadly to get to what | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
I would call a resilient zero. I think we all expected that having | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
got over the maximum period of the outbreak, which was incredibly | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
difficult, that there would be sporadic cases that would continue | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
to appear, and that is the phase that we are now in. Getting on top | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
of those, as he says, is the way in which we will get to this resilient | :16:12. | :16:19. | |
of -- resilient zero where we can be confident that there will not be | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
future cases. There is funding for that outbreak and that covers some | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
of the things I have mentioned, but also we are working in schools to | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
make sure that issues of water and sanitation, basic steps that | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
community can undertake to minimise the risk of passing on diseases | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
including the bowler, are understood and put in place. And that's | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
district level response mechanism is still there, that we have used so | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
successfully to get over the major outbreak when it was at its peak. | :16:53. | :17:01. | |
And it is worth saying that the hospital of tropical and medical | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
disease is estimated that we saved over 56,000 lives with the work that | :17:05. | :17:13. | |
we did with the government of Sierra Leone to get in the lean back on top | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
of this outbreak. He asked about the progress of vaccinations. Of course | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
one of the things that we had already been involved in prior to | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
this crisis was some of the development of early-stage vaccines. | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
He will know that there are promising candidates there and they | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
give us the prospect of being able to more readily clamped down on | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
future outbreaks. But part of this, as I finish my comments, perhaps is | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
his other point that he made an health system strengthening. One of | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
the key messages that came out from this evil outbreak was that | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
countries like Sierra Leone and Liberia, in the scheme of their | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
history, newly emergent from civil war, were less able to cope simply | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
because their health systems were at an earlier stage of development | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
because of those conflicts. Other countries in the region, Nigeria is | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
one that you might point to, were better able to clamp-down on this | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
outbreak, purely because they had a stronger health system in place but | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
even in that case, there was some way for it to go. So I would | :18:25. | :18:32. | |
reassure the House that it is perhaps not a surprise to see these | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
sporadic additional cases but however, the people, the processes | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
and the systems are in place on the ground in Sierra Leone to identify | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
them and respond rapidly to them. The final thing you mentioned was on | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
flights. The decision we took on direct flights was actually one that | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
we felt was in the interests of our national security. I think it was | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
the right decision to take. Critically, I think in the end the | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
way we got on top of this outbreak was to see the UK partnering and | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
bringing the best of British, our military, doctors and nurses and | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
Public Health England, working with our fantastic Foreign Office, as one | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
team, hand-in-hand with the government of Sierra Leone. To | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
really provide a platform that the rest of the international community | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
could work through themselves. To combat this disease. Again, I would | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
like to put on record my thanks not only to the many DFID staff that I | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
am privileged to lead in my department but to all those other | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
people across government and public sector workers who frankly put their | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
lives on the line in many cases in order to help Sierra Leone get to | :19:43. | :19:51. | |
grips with this terrible crisis. I'm sure the whole house will join me in | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
paying tribute not just to British health workers and military who went | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
to help the people of West Africa in the last Ebola outbreak, but all the | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
local workers, the local health workers who bore the brunt of the | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
campaign against Ebola and the brunt of the deaths. On the question of | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
international development reports, the Secretary of State will be aware | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
that the Commons committee said the government had been too reliant on | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
the World Health Organisation, which eventually declared in August 2015 | :20:23. | :20:31. | |
that in fact the government should have listened to other groups, like | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
Medecins Sans Frontieres, who had been warning about Ebola months | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
earlier. Does the secretary of state agree with the committee chairman | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
that the international community relied on the WHO to sound the alarm | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
and the failure to respond quickly enough is now well documented? Does | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
the secretary of state also agree that the bowler cannot be seen in | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
isolation and we have to look at the general issue of access to health | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
care in the region, and building a resilient health system. -- Ebola | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
cannot be seen in isolation. I'm grateful to the honourable lady for | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
those questions. She clearly sets out that the key to success in | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
tackling Ebola was the response of the Sierra Leonean people | :21:23. | :21:30. | |
themselves. And in the end their willingness to run towards tackling | :21:31. | :21:32. | |
disease that instinctively many people would have wanted to run away | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
from. And there were many red cross volunteers from across Africa who | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
went into the region to be part of helping tackle it. And they very | :21:41. | :21:48. | |
much like this. The UK's role was to work hand-in-hand and make sure that | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
our resources and know-how could be brought to bear to finally get on | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
top of this. I think everybody recognises that there were some | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
serious lessons to be learned by the international system in responding | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
to this crisis, and WHO reform is now taking place and that is | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
something that myself and the Secretary of State for Health have | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
had a chance to talk directly about. It is vital that we learn lessons | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
about this crisis to understand how the international system can | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
mobilise more speedily when crisis hits. This was an outbreak that was | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
rapidly spreading but actually starting in the place, a part of the | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
world that was perhaps the least able to initially responds to it | :22:36. | :22:44. | |
itself. The UK, we were actively working much earlier than the | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
official outbreak declaration by the WHO. As early as June or July, we're | :22:50. | :22:58. | |
working to support MSF, who played a key role, alongside many other NGOs. | :22:59. | :23:06. | |
There are lessons to be learned. The report today, in a systematic way, | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
goes through the initial response, and also what happened subsequent to | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
that. I think it is important that WHO reforms and I think it is | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
important that it looks at not only its processes and how it responds, | :23:22. | :23:30. | |
but this emergency response fund that it is setting up is adequately | :23:31. | :23:32. | |
resourced to have the means to response as well as the -- means to | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
respond as well as the strategy. The Select Committee report issued today | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
commends the strong leadership of DFID and the UK Government in | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
coordinating the response to a bowler. But it is critical of the | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
WHO in its delay in designating the outbreak as a public health | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
emergency of international concern. I wonder if the Secretary of State | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
would give us more insight into her discussions with Margaret Chan and | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
confirm that indeed the department is ensuring that WHO really does | :24:03. | :24:05. | |
treat this as a priority in terms of its radical reform needs? There are | :24:06. | :24:15. | |
various different aspects of this but one that is particularly key is | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
the regional response of the WHO and the importance of making sure that | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
at that level emerging outbreaks are clearly identified and in a | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
depoliticised way, identified as outbreaks simply because of the | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
facts on the ground, despite the reticence governments might have | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
about declaring a health emergency. Those are the key changes that we | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
will steadily see with the WHO over time. Critically, we need to be able | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
to mobilise people and one of the other aspects of the WHO reform is | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
to set up an international register of health care responders, much like | :24:54. | :25:02. | |
the one that the UK had that we drew up to tackle Ebola, so we can make | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
sure we have the right people in the right place rapidly the next time a | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
crisis hits. Having said that, this was an unprecedented outbreak. It is | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
the first time that we have seen and he Ebola outbreak spread across | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
borders. Nevertheless we need to see the WHO reform to respond far more | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
quickly and effectively going forward. We echo the dismay at this | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
new case and the tributes paid to those involved in the response. | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
Bearing in mind the IDC report, what more can she say about the steps | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
DFID is taking to monitor the situation in the wider region? What | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
contact does she currently have with service providers on the ground to | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
pick up early warnings and what consideration should she give to the | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
National Academy of medicine's recent report on creating a | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
risk-free world in the future, which called for WHO reform, and the | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
creation of a permanent rescue centre and an investment in pandemic | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
response? The work that is underway on the ground is very much to make | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
sure that all of the framework that we put in place to tackle the major | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
outbreaks now swing into action at the local level again. So that is in | :26:14. | :26:21. | |
relation to isolation of potential Ebola sufferers, and it sits | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
alongside the ongoing surveillance work, which was how we picked up | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
this case in the first place. Of course, one of the things that comes | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
out of this is the need to continue to emphasise the need for safe | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
burials, so that we do not see this case spreading more broadly. And | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
deliver that. But alongside that, of deliver that. But alongside that, of | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
course, I talked about the hospital and treatment centres that are still | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
there in order to provide the kind of isolation units that we need to | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
be able to treat the bowler sufferers effectively, and lab | :27:00. | :27:06. | |
testing. This is a legacy from what the UK was able to do with Sierra | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
Leone that means they are better placed to deal with this particular | :27:12. | :27:13. | |
case but I should emphasise to the House that as we go through | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
contracts tracing periods, the quarantine period for high risk | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
contact, inevitably there may be some further cases that could | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
emerge. And this is all part of the eradication of Ebola, and getting to | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
what I call resilience zero. Unfortunately we do not expect to | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
see a situation where it suddenly switches off overnight and that is | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
why we were so keen to make sure that some of these underlying | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
processes, having the right people in place and the right surveillance, | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
remains there. In order to be able to deal with these sorts of | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
situations. He asked about WHO reform and the emergency response. | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
And he is right to talk about that. Part of this needs to ensure that we | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
have funded international resources to enable the WHO to put into | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
practice the new strategy is that it is now developing. The UK was one of | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
the initial contributors to the fund set up in 2000 within the WHO, but | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
we are strongly lobbying other countries to join us. | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
Our thoughts are very much with the people of Sierra Leone. The | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
Secretary of State said last July that the UK will stay the course | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
until Ebola is defeated. Will she confirmed that the United Kingdom | :28:39. | :28:39. | |
will stay the course until... | :28:40. | :29:08. | |
In the context of this outbreak, there was a point in time where | :29:09. | :29:10. | |
people were extremely concerned about its potential to arrive here | :29:11. | :29:18. | |
in the UK. It is not just in there interests that we do this work, it | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
is in our interest that we have a W H O that is able to respond to these | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
sorts of national health emergencies. -- International health | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
emergencies. Can I congratulate the end... Honourable gentleman on | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
securing this question. In the select committee report published | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
today that has been referred to, one of the central recommendations is | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
that the UK should take the lead in efforts for reform about | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
organisation. Can the Secretary of State tell us more about the | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
timescale of the reforms we do not lose the opportunity? The reform is | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
already under way. I met this comparatively recently with Margaret | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
Chan, who heads up the W O'Connor about this. There are already | :30:07. | :30:13. | |
changes being made across-the-board. The key thing that remains to be | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
worked on, as I said earlier, is bottoming out the overall strategy | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
for improving and emergency responses in relation to the WHO, | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
making sure there is resourcing, and the issue of working with countries | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
who are perhaps most at risk if a healthy emergency occurs, for them | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
to particularly be able to deal with that more effectively. It is not | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
just about having a better system in place, it is about targeting, | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
frankly, where we know the greatest potential holes in an international | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
response might be. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Her | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
department, our medical professionals, our Armed Forces can | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
be proud of the assistance they gave to Sierra Leone during the Ebola | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
outbreak of 2014/ 15. As a member of this Haas with a Sierra Leonean | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
mother, will she assure the house my family and the wider Sierra Leonean | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
diaspora that support to Sierra Leone will continue until the | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
facilities locally are able to withstand further health | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
difficulties like this, and also that our future economic and | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
diplomatic relationship with Sierra Leone will not be defined by this | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
darkest period in such it went for country's history? | :31:38. | :31:39. | |
I think he puts his point extremely well. The role of the diaspora | :31:40. | :31:46. | |
working with many of those links that they naturally have back in | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
Sierra Leone was critical, actually. I remember the meetings I had with | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
diaspora here to make sure there were those lines of communication | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
open between the work that the Foreign Office was doing and people | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
on the ground themselves. He talks about the need and the hope that | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
Sierra Leone can bounce back from what it has been through. It was a | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
terrible, terrible outbreak. I remember I was there three times | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
over a very short period, but it was only on my third visit that I felt | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
like I got to see some of the country, in essence, and its spirit. | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
Because the first two times were so embedded in crisis, it was really a | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
different place. Before this crisis hit, Sierra Leone was one of the | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
fastest-growing economies in the world. Our hope, and the omission we | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
have to have for a country like Sierra Leone, is that it really can | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
bounce back now. I would finish by saying that the challenge is to | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
bring the same urgency that we saw in responding to Ebola to the rest | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
of our country's develop and. What we saw in that response was when we | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
really worked together, when there is a country owned strategy, we have | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
all the different stakeholders pulling in the same direction, we | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
can cover a lot of ground quickly when there is political will. That | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
has much, much broader lessons for development progress | :33:17. | :33:18. | |
internationally, particularly in Sierra Leone. We are trying to make | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
sure that the momentum keeps up even though the outbreak is steadily | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
being eradicated. Further to that very welcome point | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
from the Minister, will she undertake to ensure that the support | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
towards resilience won't just be to support the infrastructure of a | :33:36. | :33:37. | |
fragile health care system that clearly needs to be supported, but | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
also to support village development committees in Sierra Leone who | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
proved such an effective and important network of mobilisation, | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
whose capacity will be relevant to the other challengers, including | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
those diseases which lost a priority during the Ebola crisis? | :33:55. | :34:02. | |
He talks about a number of different but related points. The work at | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
community level proved to be pivotal in enabling us to tackle Ebola. Both | :34:07. | :34:13. | |
in terms of steadily ensuring that people who were victims of a bowler | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
were buried safely and did not pass the virus on, but also then in | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
improving surveillance, and it is the surveillance now that is one of | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
the key planks of making sure that we never see another case of Ebola | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
that romps away in the way that we saw it take hold in 2014. There is a | :34:31. | :34:39. | |
lot more work to be done. Improving district and community level health | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
care is absolutely vital and, indeed, it was the lack of a strong | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
district and community level health care system that enabled this virus | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
to really take hold. I talked about the legacy of a bowler, if there is | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
one thing we were able to put in place it was very good command and | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
control -- the legacy of Ebola. It went right from the Ministry of | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
health and the president to the most removed communities. That was put in | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
place to deal with the crisis, but now it can really help drive | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
improvements in community health care and to build on the back of | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
that skeleton, if you like, for the benefit of improving health more | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
generally in Sierra Leone. Could I thank my honourable friend | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
for asking this urgent question and congratulate the Secretary of State | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
for the way she responded? My constituents in Kettering are hugely | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
proud of the fantastic deployment of Armed Forces and civilian NHS | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
personnel to tackle this crisis. Can I say to the Secretary of State, I | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
don't think the full extent of the good news about this country's | :35:48. | :35:50. | |
involvement in this crisis is out there. I don't think most people | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
know that this country saved 56,000 lives as a result of our | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
intervention. She shot with the House is a more good news about the | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
involvement of this country as the world's leading responded to this | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
huge crisis -- could she shout with the House some more good news? | :36:11. | :36:16. | |
I think the numbers of lives directly saved because of the work | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
that the UK was able to do is staggering. You can actually see the | :36:23. | :36:30. | |
epidemic curve bending upwards and then steadily working with the | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
government to wrestle it down over a period of months. It was extremely | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
difficult work that required a huge amount of effort. In terms of what | :36:39. | :36:47. | |
we did, we had 1100 -- 1500 military personnel, six UK treatment centres | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
were provided in a matter of weeks, we trained over 4000 Sierra Leonean | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
health-care workers, we deployed 150 NHS volunteers. They worked on | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
supporting over 1500 treatment and isolation beds, more than half of | :37:03. | :37:10. | |
the beds treating... That were available to treat Sierra Leoneans | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
in that country. We now have a 36 bed mobile field hospital, there | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
were 100 Public Health England staff that help set up three laboratories. | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
We deliver 28,000 tonnes of aid, we delivered more than a million | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
protective equipment suit is for people who were having to work, as | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
it were, in the red zone, directly dealing with people with Ebola. We | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
supported over 140 burial teams, we had a Royal Navy support ship, we | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
had Merlin helicopters. It was a phenomenal response across | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
Government, I am very proud to have been part of it. I thank him for his | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
question. It is easy after these crises have been responded to do | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
very much move on and lose just how important it was for the UK and how | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
valuable the role was that we played. | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
I very much support her efforts so far, I agree with her comments about | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
the need for economic reconstruction in Sierra Leone in the future, too. | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
She will also have heard the Chief Medical Officer of Sierra Leone, who | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
is reported as saying that in one case the patient showed no signs or | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
symptoms that fitted the case definition of Ebola. Given this very | :38:32. | :38:38. | |
disturbing fact, what are the wider public health implications for us in | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
the United Kingdom and what discussions has she had about this | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
specific issue, with Public Health England, the Department of Health | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
and the Foreign Commonwealth Office? | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
We obviously continue to have a substantial team in Sierra Leone | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
that is working directly on the ground, and part of the response to | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
this latest case, although that response has been, of course, led by | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
the government of Sierra Leone, and the real test of whether we are | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
working effectively as whether we can in time step back and see the | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
help system strengthening via that can take care of these sorts of | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
outbreaks. We are investigating this particular case right now. He talks | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
about some of the challenges of identification, it is why the | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
surveillance is so important. It is following some of the procedures on | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
taking swabs of all deaths that picked up that this was Ebola. At | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
this stage of this response we have had to steadily work out what the | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
most effective route forward is. We are continuing to do that as we come | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
from new challenges, frankly, I can do what we have seen over recent | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
days. I think the House can be reassured that we are working | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
hand-in-hand, we have the resources in place and we also have fantastic | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
medical experts who can really help us ground any strategy in terms of | :40:06. | :40:12. | |
the science and how to take those are facts on the ground and respond | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
to them effectively. We should be very proud of the role | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
that the British military, the British health workers and the | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
volunteers as well, under the leadership of DfID in Sierra Leone | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
in tackling Ebola, but I think this latest incident which sadly led to | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
the death of someone in Freetown just highlights how we must remain | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
vigilant to this terrible disease. Will my right honourable friend sure | :40:44. | :40:50. | |
this House that DfID will continue to press to be weighed show and the | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
international community to continue to play a part not just in | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
monitoring but strengthening and further developing public health | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
systems in Sierra Leone? I strongly agree. We will be playing | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
that role, we already are and will continue to do so. Much of it is | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
pushed forward by the Department of Health, and it's very close working | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
relationship with the WHO. It is vital that we fix some of the | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
underlying problems that led to Ebola taking hold in the first | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
place, which essentially means health system strengthening on the | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
ground but also a better responder system internationally in order to | :41:30. | :41:32. | |
deal with crises when they are inevitably emerge around the world. | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
The comment that the Secretary of State made about supporting Sierra | :41:39. | :41:48. | |
Leone, we have been very proud in Hull to be twinned with Freetown for | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
many years, we have had many reciprocal visits, especially with | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
teachers. I wonder whether the department was considering what more | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
we could do to strengthen the reciprocal visits, to ensure | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
support, especially in education, to that country? | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
I will perhaps take away her ideas and thoughts and respond to her | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
following this urgent question today. She is right to highlight | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
education, one of the key issues we are now working on is getting | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
children back into school. Particularly for girls, who may have | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
been out of school, then we have to, frankly, make sure they get into | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
school in a way that is not always easy, and also for orphans. There is | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
a number of orphans as a result of the Ebola crisis, so education | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
matters, not just in terms of broader public health but, of | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
course, the schooling for children, many of whom were out of school for | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
a year. I will reflect on the points she has made about the important | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
links between her own local community and Freetown. | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
The Secretary of State's actions have undoubtedly saved thousands of | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
lives and I pay tribute to the efforts of the UK Government. | :43:01. | :43:08. | |
However there is a charity doing great work in Sierra Leone who | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
described the response to the orphans as to patchy across the | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
country. What more can the secretary of state do to make it easier for | :43:18. | :43:24. | |
small of aid to be provided on the ground to make a difference? We did | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
have a particular fund that was able to enable us to provide funding to | :43:31. | :43:37. | |
some of these smaller charities. As he will probably be aware, the main | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
challenge at the beginning was putting in place all the key planks | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
of a successful strategy which we were able to do, but smaller NGOs | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
did play a key role and I would like did play a key role and I would like | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
to pay tribute to the one that he highlights. DFID also did work to | :43:53. | :44:00. | |
support orphans, many of whom would have otherwise been in incredibly | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
vulnerable positions throughout this crisis, and we are still continuing | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
to do that because as he will be aware, many survivors of the bowler | :44:10. | :44:17. | |
do suffer a stigma as a result of having had the virus. -- Ebola. | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
There is work underway to make sure that we integrate people into their | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
families and where we find orphans, wherever possible, we help them get | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
back in touch with their extended family. I warmed to the words that | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
the Secretary of State said about the holistic approach to | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
reconstruction in Sierra Leone, but it is the whole of West Africa. He | :44:47. | :44:55. | |
bowler knows no boundaries. I know that she has paid tribute to our | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
troops and all the effort that went on but there are some individuals. | :44:59. | :45:09. | |
We all remember the diary from the young doctor from Huddersfield, the | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
heart-warming reports. But also the aid agencies, the aid agencies, | :45:14. | :45:23. | |
including where my own daughter works, but we have to learn the | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
lessons. I used to work for the World Bank and I had reservations | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
about the effectiveness of the WHO, on many occasions. And this was a | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
time to reflect on whether the World Health Organisation is fit for | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
purpose. And if it is not, we should try to do something about it. There | :45:41. | :45:49. | |
were a number of British-based NGOs that played a vital role in helping | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
to respond successfully to Ebola in Sierra Leone and in other countries | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
and communities that were affected. In particular Save the Children, who | :46:01. | :46:08. | |
were pivotal in enabling us to open the first treatment hospital that we | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
were able to put in place, and that saved lives. For many of those NGOs, | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
it was a real step into the dark, in a way, to have many of their | :46:20. | :46:26. | |
volunteers working in such dangerous environments, and the training that | :46:27. | :46:28. | |
needed to go alongside that. I want to take the opportunity to pay | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
tribute to all of those volunteers who went out there, not just as I | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
have set out from our own public sector, but many of them from all | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
walks of life, frankly. They did an amazing job and they save lives. And | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
he sets out that the international response, and the international | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
system needs to improve, as we have heard from other questions in the | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
chamber today. He is absolutely right. This was a crisis that we | :46:58. | :47:08. | |
must learn lessons from. There were positive lessons about what it takes | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
to confront Ebola but there are also negative lessons about how, frankly, | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
a better job could have been done. My final point would be, looking | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
forward to reconstruction and recovery, I represented the UK at a | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
conference last year at the UN, hosted by the Secretary General, | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
which was all about mobilising resources and effort around the | :47:34. | :47:42. | |
country owned plans in in Liberia and Guinea, so there is one strategy | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
that we are linked Heinz to help those countries get behind their | :47:47. | :47:56. | |
feet. Dashed back on their feet. Dashed back on their feet. I welcome | :47:57. | :48:04. | |
the responses so far. The work is not just about saving lives, but | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
saving lives in this country as well. Demonstrating that maintaining | :48:10. | :48:16. | |
military capabilities, delivering our international objectives are, | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
voluntary and not exclusive. What discussions have the Secretary of | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
State had with the Ministry of Defence about the potential for | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
support if it proves to be needed? We hope that the procedures and the | :48:28. | :48:36. | |
framework that we have left on the ground will be the best and most | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
effective way to be able to respond to this latest incident. And we can | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
also learn from Liberia's experience, where they went through | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
a period of being free of Ebola and then they saw some fresh cases. I | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
hope that we will be able to use those existing structures to be able | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
to respond but I think that if there is one thing that we have seen over | :48:57. | :49:03. | |
the past 12 years, our fantastic MOD often stands ready to be part of the | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
UK humanitarian response, not just in relation to leave bowler but in | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
typhoon I am in Nepal, and it plays a unique role in enabling this | :49:15. | :49:21. | |
country to mobilise. I think as effectively as any in this world. | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
Playing our part in helping to save lives when disaster hits. Firstly, I | :49:27. | :49:33. | |
would like to commend the work of everybody who has been involved in | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
tackling Ebola. Given the issues highlighted, can the Secretary of | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
State outline what lessons have been learned by engaging cultural leaders | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
and working with cultural norms in order to provide a cohesive response | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
that is fully implement it. -- fully implemented. Of course, she | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
represent a constituency that has our Scottish DFID headquarters. | :49:58. | :50:03. | |
Again, those staff played a key raw in helping us shape the response, | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
and I would like to say a huge thank you to them. The issue of working | :50:08. | :50:14. | |
with communities is absolutely vital. -- a key role. We have to | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
work with the cultures that are already there. You cannot impose on | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
people. And indeed, the leadership that was shown from the top, from | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
the president and then at the district level by community and | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
religious leaders, particularly around safe burials, really made the | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
difference. And it was once we were able to get that percentage of safe | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
burials up towards 100%, that was when we stopped the onward spread | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
from being at its peak. It was after getting the treatment beds in place | :50:47. | :50:54. | |
that we were able to start improving our survival rates. And then working | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
with communities, with the help of community leaders, helping people to | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
understand how they could stay safe. And not catch this virus. And how | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
quarantining people is actually in their interests, although it is | :51:07. | :51:13. | |
difficult, to help save their own family. Bringing communities with | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
us, and the role that community leaders play, also community | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
mobiliser is, many times young people who went into communities to | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
talk to them about these issues, that was one of the key planks that | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
helped us turn the corner, but it took time. Would be Secretary of | :51:30. | :51:38. | |
State agree that had not been from the commitment delivered under the | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
coalition, for a 0.7% GNI, that it might have been more difficult to | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
deliver on the scale and with the speed that the government were able | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
to deliver on Ebola in Sierra Leone, and that it would have certainly | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
have restricted the government's ability to negotiate with the World | :52:01. | :52:02. | |
Health Organisation if we were not able to stand up in front of other | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
countries and say we had delivered on that 0.7% commitment? There is no | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
doubt that the fact that this country has finally delivered on a | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
promise we made many years ago on meeting that commitment, of course | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
that gives us huge credibility. I would also say that our influence | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
goes beyond that because what we consistently do as a country very | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
positively is helped shape the response so that it is not just a | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
significant response from the UK, it is a thoughtful response that helps | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
to shape strategy so that the money that is going into that response, | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
wherever it is from, frankly, has the biggest impact on the ground. | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
Whether that is leading on Ebola or the work we're doing on women and | :52:54. | :52:57. | |
girls, and tackling female genital mutilation, or the work we're doing | :52:58. | :53:03. | |
other crises in Syria, shaping job creation and employment and | :53:04. | :53:06. | |
education, because we know that is what refugees need if they want to | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
have a viable option of staying in that region, I think the UK's work | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
goes beyond simply doing a lot. I think what we're doing is also smart | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
and it is helping to make sure that the international community's | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
responds more broccoli also smart. I think I had noticed earlier a point | :53:26. | :53:35. | |
of order. I would like to raise a point of order. During Treasury | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
questions, the Chancellor was in an exchange with the Shadow Chancellor | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
and he used the term, had he lost his marbles, which I think was | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
unparliamentary. I also would like to say that this comment comes in | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
the week when the government has been exposed as leading mental | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
health services underfunded. What the Chancellor has said goes to the | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
heart of their callous attitudes towards vulnerable people and I | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
wanted to put that on the record. I am grateful to the honourable lady | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
for raising the point of order and putting it on the record. I did not | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
make the immediate judgment that it was unparliamentary. I think it was | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
intended in a jocular spirit. Of course, we all have two-way our | :54:19. | :54:24. | |
words carefully in this place, and think of the possible locations of | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
language chosen. I stand by the judgment made. Equally, the | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
honourable lady has taken the opportunity to make her own point | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
about it, and to make a wider point about an important public policy | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
issue in the process. And it is on the record of what she has said and | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
I thank for doing so. Mr Hywel Williams, a point of order. You have | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
certified that there are instruments that relate to England only and that | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
affects majority footing. Thousands of English students study at Bangor | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
University and they are constituents of mine. Can you advise me how I | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
might represent their views in full in voting lobbies? The honourable | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
gentleman, I thank him for his point of order and his characteristic | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
courtesy in notifying me in advance. He asks how he can represent the | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
interests of his constituents in relation to the educational | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
regulations before the House. This does give me the opportunity to | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
explain the situation. Although I have certified this instrument as | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
relating exclusively to England, the prayer to annul it requires a | :55:39. | :55:47. | |
majority both of all members and of members representing English | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
constituencies, so he is perfectly entitled to vote on it. The tests | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
that the standing order sets is that every provision of the instrument | :55:58. | :56:05. | |
relates exclusively to England, and is within devolved legislative | :56:06. | :56:08. | |
competence. I am satisfied that this instrument meet that test. Informing | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
my judgment, I am guided by advice both from speakers Council, and from | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
the public to Bill office. Our exchange is on the record and I hope | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
it will be useful to the honourable gentleman in such exchanges or | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
communication as take place. Further to that point of order, I shall | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
discover whether there is courtesy of the right honourable gentleman, | :56:36. | :56:37. | |
David Hanson. I accept fully your interpretation, | :56:38. | :56:48. | |
it is right and proper. My point of order is what opportunity is there | :56:49. | :56:51. | |
for members who believe there is an interest in Wales to make | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
representations to you prior to your certification of that decision? | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
There are issues, as the honourable friend for Wrexham will point out, | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
on budget and the communities such as ours. I have only just learned in | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
the last few moments of your certification prior to entering the | :57:11. | :57:13. | |
chamber this morning of this particular matter. For future | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
reference, what process is there to make those representations? | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
Self-evidently, we as Welsh members believe there is an interest in our | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
constituencies on these matters. If memory serves me correctly, I | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
announced the decision on this matter on the 7th of January, | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
therefore there has been a period of no fewer than 12 days in which it is | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
open to honourable and right honourable members to make | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
representations. Moreover, in relation, not, I concede, two | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
instruments, but to legislation, the House will now be conscious or will | :57:53. | :57:58. | |
start to become conscious that it is my frequent practice to make a | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
provisional certification, and that is subject to review cheering the | :58:05. | :58:10. | |
passage of a piece of legislation depending upon the sequence of | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
events. Therefore if during such periods members feel that their | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
point of view has not been heard, and that if I hear it I may reach a | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
different judgment, they should take the opportunity. The Right | :58:26. | :58:27. | |
Honourable gentleman looked rather sceptical when I said that judgment | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
had been made about this matters in several days ago. I would want to | :58:32. | :58:37. | |
emphasise that there is no intention at all to deny members the | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
opportunity to make representations, indeed, rather the contrary. I would | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
very politely point out to the right honourable gentleman and to the | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
House that this procedure is a procedure that the House has decided | :58:53. | :58:53. | |
I should operate, and I am seeking I should operate, and I am seeking | :58:54. | :58:59. | |
to operate to the best of my ability, and extremely fairly. It is | :59:00. | :59:06. | |
not, however, the Speaker's procedure, it is a judgment the | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
House has made, I am making the best job of it that I can. The right | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
honourable gentleman is intimating from a sedentary position that his | :59:17. | :59:23. | |
facial expressions were those not of scepticism but of gratitude. I am | :59:24. | :59:29. | |
for that helpful clarification, as for that helpful clarification, as | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
will an expectant nation also be. Point of order, Mr Ian Lucas. | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
I am very grateful. Further to the point of order, I am particularly | :59:40. | :59:41. | |
grateful that you pointed out this grateful that you pointed out this | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
appalling procedure is not your procedure, it is a procedure which, | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
unfortunately, the house authorised to do implement and is subject to | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
standing orders which, of course, you are acting upon. The difficulty, | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
Mr Speaker, is that the notification and notice is very late for those of | :00:01. | :00:08. | |
us like me who have constituent at the University in my constituency | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
directly affected by this. In the spirit of being helpful, I would | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
like to point out that the procedure committee, of which I am a member, | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
is undertaking an inquiry into this appalling procedure and will be | :00:21. | :00:27. | |
those who are motivated, like my those who are motivated, like my | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
very good friend who actually attended that university and can | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
vote today in a way that those MPs from Wales cannot, those who are | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
motivated to make representations to the procedure committee. | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
First of all, I must emphasise that all members can vote on this today. | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
I don't want him to develop, and it would be very sad and worrying if he | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
did, a persecution complex. I would not want the honourable gentlemen to | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
feel that he is excluded. When he says he is making his point of order | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
by way of being helpful, I can't think I would doubt it for a moment! | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
I don't think he ever intends anything other than to be helpful to | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
me, the house and the nation and his constituents. He can certainly vote | :01:21. | :01:27. | |
on the matter. The house will have been struck by the honourable | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
gentlemen's use of his adjective in relation to the procedure. I did not | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
make any evaluation of the procedure, I made the factual point | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
that it is not something introduced by the Speaker, it is something that | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
the House has said the speaker shall do, I am the servant of the house, | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
doing it to the best of my ability. He has made his own assessment of | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
the procedure and he is, as he has pointed out, a distinguished order | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
-- ornament of the procedure committee. Numbers who wish to make | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
representations to procedure in the ultimate showman should do so. The | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
honourable gentlemen has helpfully advertise that opportunity. | :02:09. | :02:18. | |
I suspect on a separate Magna... Matter, another point of order. I | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
was astonished on Friday lunchtime to be told by a constituent that the | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
Prime Minister was visiting a mosque in my constituency on Monday | :02:29. | :02:30. | |
morning. Having followed that up, I was told that was the case, but they | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
refused to tell me where the visit was even though I had already told | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
them that I knew. It was only Monday morning when they finally told me | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
where be, having not told me in the first place. Apart from the keystone | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
thinking they should not tell a thinking they should not tell a | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
sitting member of Parliament but his constituents have found out, can I | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
ask your advice and Parliamentary protocol? This meant that I did not | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
have the opportunity either to liaise with the wonderful mosque, | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
who do wonderful work in terms of integration, or to speak to the | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
Prime Minister's offers to give him I thought and advice on their work | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
before his visit? I rather imagine a pregnancy thinks of little else in | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
the course of the planning of his day than of the merits of receiving | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
in such terms as the honourable gentlemen thinks fit and at such | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
length is necessary his advice -- I rather imagine the Prime Minister | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
thinks of little else. It occurs to me of the top of my head that it | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
would have been open to representatives of the mosque to | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
notify the honourable gentlemen in a timely way. On the matter of the | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
protocol, whereby members should be notified, I would say that it is | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
best for colleagues to interpret their responsibility in this matter | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
broadly, that is to say rather than... I am not refer into any | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
particular case, taking a narrow view and thinking that notification | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
would take place at a very late stage, it is better to notify a | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
colleague well in advance of an intention to visit his or her | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
constituency. My own personal view is that where we are dealing with | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
colleagues who are honourable and write honourable members, it is a | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
courtesy to give more information rather than less. I hope that is | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
helpful to the honourable gentlemen, and the House? There are always | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
examples of these matters which a rife from time to time. | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
-- which arrive. We come to the ten minute rule motion of the honourable | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
member for Carshalton and Warrington. | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
Mr Tom brake. I beg to move at least be given for me to bring in a bill | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
to amend the Freedom of Information Act 2000 to remove promotion -- | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
provisions relating ministers to overrule decisions of the | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
information Commissioner and an information Tribunal, to limit the | :05:04. | :05:05. | |
time allowed for public authorities to respond Baltic consideration of | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
the public interest, to extend the the public interest, to extend the | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
FOIA act to cover private companies, social enterprises, charities | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
contracted to carry out work for local authorities, the Royal | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
household and connected purposes. I am no stranger to as the light ten | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
minute rule Bill 's, this is the third bill on this subject I have | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
promoted in Parliament, I am hoping, without any real justification I | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
confess, that today will be three times lucky. A country's commitment | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
to FOI is a clear indicator of the strength of its democracy. For that | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
reason I totally reject what one of Tony Blair 's 's former advisers | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
said to the BBC, but FOI was the worst thing the Labour government | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
did. Tony Blair was far too hard on himself when he said about FOI, you | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
idiot, you naive, foolish, irresponsible nincompoop. There is | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
no description of stupidity, however vivid, that is adequate. I quake at | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
the imbecility of it. Instead, he should have saved those words to | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
describe his decision, on the flimsiest of evidence, to drag the | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
UK to war in Iraq. Tony Blair's views on the alleged is -- | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
imbecility of FOI legislation are well-known, as are those of Jack | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
Straw, who use the ministerial FOI vetoed twice, once to block Cabinet | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
minute in the run-up to the Iraq war. He said, we have ended up with | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
the Freedom of Information Act with more access to documents than any | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
comparable jurisdiction. Personally, I consider that something to | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
celebrate, not denigrate. I darken the more I liked interview in the | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
Labour Party on the subject, I hope their review will disregard these | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
dinosaur tendencies and back FOI to the help. Just as strong FOI | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
legislation is a good barometer of democracy, any attempt to diluted | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
represent a threat to it. With the number of MPs falling, hundreds of | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
thousands of voters dropping off the electoral register, many being | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
flushed, the Trade Union Bill being rammed through, all of which her to | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
the opposition parties much more than the Conservatives, the | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
opposition parties' abilities to challenge the Government is being | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
curtailed. We are more dependent on FOI and the FOI Act than ever | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
before. What are the views of the present Government on FOI? They | :07:39. | :07:39. | |
established an independent commission in July to review the | :07:40. | :07:47. | |
FOIA Act. This includes Jack Straw. No need to submit a FOI requested | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
and straight there is nothing independent. It is claimed necessary | :07:54. | :08:01. | |
because the Government needed to revisit FOI to ensure that ministers | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
could speak candidly. He spoke of the worrying tendency to erode | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
protections for that save space. Some of these officials, including | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
Sir Gus O Donnell, as recently as this weekend, and the Cabinet | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
secretary, Sir Jeremy Heywood, dubbed Sir cover-up, made similar | :08:19. | :08:26. | |
claims. Have seen here mandarin and scares them into thinking they can | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
write things down, because they will be exposed to FOI, when there is no | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
such risk, or because it serves the interests of the Chancellor to | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
require them not to? I know with my involvement with the Transparency | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
Act but a chilling effect can be achieved because someone repeats | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
that a law or measure is chilling often enough, so people could tell | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
their actions and self-centred -- self censor, rather than because it | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
is chilling. Sir Jeremy has spoken about the chilling effects of the | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
FOI Act. Now I should simply say that he wants to make the FOI rules | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
clearer without substantial changes. To paraphrase Vince Cable, in the | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
last few weeks we have seen his transformation from Sir cover-up to | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
be so Lancelot Du Lac of FOI. Which incarnation is likely to have the | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
longest shelf life bust up many legal experts point out that | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
information Tribunal 's which he challenges against disclosure, and | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
the statistics confirm this, only allow policy discussions to be | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
revealed in very limited circumstances, or when the arguments | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
for disclosure are overwhelmingly in the public interest. It is worth | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
reminding the House that the justice select committee has conducted a | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
much wider post-legislative scrutiny stating that FOI had contributed to | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
a culture of greater openness across public authorities, particularly at | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
central government level, and it is a significant enhancement to | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
democracy. I'm disappointed at the commission's limited scope. The | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
remit does not cover what types of bodies should be covered by the act, | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
a major failing as we have seen here dignities of companies like chief or | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
essence circle, and charities like Kids Company, a growing proportion | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
of work previously undertaken by the public sector, subject two, | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
undertaken by organisations which are not. How many Medway secure | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
training centres candles could be prevented if FOI applied to private | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
sector companies doing public sector work? We need to act on the | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
recommendation of the Public Accounts Committee from 2014 and | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
include these private contractors. The commission should have looked at | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
bringing the Royal household within the scope of the FOI Act. It is | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
difficult to understand why it should not be in scope. FOI request | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
would be subject to the public interest test. The Royal household | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
is probably the most public of the public authorities. The veto allows | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
ministers, for reasons of political embarrassment, to overturn | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
considered decisions of the Commissioner or a tribunal. It | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
allows them for bad reasons to overturn good decisions. Nor does | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
this commission seek to consult on some of the tricks of the trade used | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
to delay FOI responses, the absence of any time limits on internal FOI | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
reviews. Something the news media Association is pressing for, and I | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
am backing, 40 days seems reasonable. Currently, the absence | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
of time limits provides apartments with a convenient delaying | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
mechanism, and they are already adept at kicking into the long | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
grass. Andrew Lansley's dairies for the period in the run-up to the | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
health and social care rack to being a good case in point. They are of | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
interest because of what they might reveal regarding the number of | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
meetings with private health companies. Their release was fought | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
on the grounds that there might be gaps in his diary which would have | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
to be filled by spurious meetings to ensure he could not be accused of | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
laziness. This is dismissed by the tribunal as incredible, quite | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
rightly. On the other hand, the commission floats the idea of | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
upfront charges for FOI requests. No precise figure is given, but could | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
be at least ?20 in order to recoup the cost of invoicing. The | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
introduction in Ireland of a 50 euros fee in 2003 resulted in a 70% | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
collapse in the number of requests from the public. | :12:29. | :12:47. | |
Other examples include Network Rail. They spent ?7.2 million on car | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
allowances for senior staff last year, bringing the total spend to | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
?35 million. This is a very welcome step, pressed by me and Norman | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
Baker, to bring Network Rail into scope, which came into effect last | :13:06. | :13:14. | |
year. If a fee was in place, for instance investigating all 43 police | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
forces would cost ?863. There are over 260 NHS trusts which would push | :13:20. | :13:27. | |
the costs of SOIing their performance to ?65,000. I am upset | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
by the phrasing of the question, which startss from the perspective | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
of saying that SOI is not a benefit. Parliament should always set an | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
example when it comes to transparency. I support the press | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
Association in their bid to ensure that alcohol. ... The request was | :13:49. | :13:58. | |
rejected on grounds that to do so would breach confident sheltie and | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
the conduct of public affairs but Parliament has a duty to lead on | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
matters of transparency. Parliament, with the exception of matters | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
relating to Parliamentary Echo privilege, should be treated like | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
any other public authority and the subject to those tests. Whether the | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
release of those documents could have been properly assessed. Mr | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
Speaker, our democracy is healthier, more resilient and less vulnerable | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
to ambush with tough and challenging FOIA laws in place. This bill would | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
strengthen FOI to ensure that no one is above scrutiny, whether it is | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
ministers, charity, Parliament or the Royal household. I urge the | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
House to support my bill today. The question is that the right | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
honourable member have leave to bring in the Bill. As many as are of | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
that opinion say aye. The contrary, no. The eyes have it, the eyes have | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
it. Who will bring in the Bill? Mr Ray Mallon, Mr Alistair Carmichael, | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
Mark Durcan, Tim Farron, Mr David Davis, Caroline Lucas, Greg | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
Mulholland, Norman Lamb, Mr Mark Williams and Mr David Winick and | :15:09. | :15:10. | |
myself, Sir. Speaker of information, public | :15:11. | :15:40. | |
interest and transparency bill. Second reading, what day? 11th of | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
March. 11th of March thank you. We come now to the motion in the name | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
of the Leader of the Opposition in relation to the reading of student | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
maintenance rants. I call the shadow Minister, Mr Gordon Marsden. Thank | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
you, Mr Speaker. The government's proposal to scrap maintenance grants | :16:05. | :16:06. | |
for disadvantaged students and to replace it with a loan system is not | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
an isolated one, it is part of a pattern happening across other areas | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
of government and mirrored in changes eight days ago which removed | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
NHS bursaries for nurses and other staff. It has also been foreshadowed | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
by changes the government have made to further education support and | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
protection over the past three or four years. The truth of the matter | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
is that the government's position on this issue, they have ducked and | :16:33. | :16:39. | |
dived to avoid debates on this direction of travel, which also | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
includes freezing the payment threshold for five years, not | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
specifically part of these regulations, although it is referred | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
to in the assessment that comes with them. Also, likely to hit | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
disadvantaged students. We have brought this debates today to hold | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
them to account because this being such a major issue, the government | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
have refused to bring the changes to the floor of the House themselves, | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
preferring to sneak them through delegated legislation where it can | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
be voted on by only a handful of MPs. I will give way. I am grateful | :17:13. | :17:20. | |
to him for giving way. Does he not think it is particularly shameful | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
that this proposal was not contained in the Conservative Party manifesto, | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
and therefore has not just been sneaked in in the House of Commons, | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
but has been sneaked in in the face of the knowledge of the people of | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
this country. My honourable friend makes a very striking point. It is | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
one of only a series of delinquencies in this matter that I | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
want to move on to. The Tories, the government, the Conservative Party | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
has shied away from the light of debate and scrutiny on this issue, | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
preferring instead to use a legislative sleight of hand which | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
has ensured that sweeping changes were made in committee in the hope | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
that no one would notice. All the way through this process there have | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
been -- they have been less than candid, defensive, systematically | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
resisting a path of openness. There was little detail to be had when the | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
Chancellor noted the change in the summer and not much more in the | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
Autumn Statement. It was only when the NUS raised the alarm about the | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
impact of the process and threatened judicial review on the lack of | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
consultation that the failure to publish the equality assessment, | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
which the government has not done, that the assessment was slipped out. | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
My honourable friend, the Business -- the Shadow Business Secretary | :18:43. | :18:44. | |
wrote to the Business Secretary to explain why we needed the full | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
debate. It was reflected in a number of cross-party signatures. His reply | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
largely ignored those issues. The issue of failing to bring it to the | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
floor of the Commons, raised by the shadow leader in December. At that | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
time, the leader in the House -- the Leader of the House intimated should | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
be a debate but that has not subsequently taken place. My | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
honourable friend's question was ducked last Wednesday and colleagues | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
raised this issue again in business questions last week, and I put it in | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
a series of detailed questions to the Minister and the legislation | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
committee, for which I would like to see responses in due course. It is | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
no surprise that the Independent lead today on the way in which this | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
government has been using statutory instruments systematically to force | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
through profound and controversial changes to laws without proper | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
debate and scrutiny. Nor is it surprising that my honourable friend | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
for quality told them that this is an arbitrary rule that massively | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
decreases the power of the Commons to effectively scrutinise | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
government. This equality impact assessment slipped out with relative | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
lack of ceremony at the end of November and as I said last week, | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
this is a document that almost dare not speak its name, not least | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
because the detailed evidence of its impact was tucked away in its | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
central pages, to which I will refer later, what is driving these panic | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
measures, such as the ?1.5 billion raid on grants and the threshold | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
freeze, is the belated recognition that the whole set of financial | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
assumptions about repayments that underpins the freeze increase in -- | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
fees increase in 2012 is producing a black hole for them and future | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
taxpayers. I will give way to my honourable friend. I am grateful to | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
my honourable friend. Did a Tory minister not stand at that dispatch | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
box in 2012 over the question of troubling fees and insurers that | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
they would increase a national scholarship programme and | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
maintenance grants to protect those students from the poorest | :20:59. | :21:00. | |
backgrounds? Now they are scrapping both and trying to sneak it through. | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
Isn't that an absolute betrayal? My honourable friend is absolutely | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
right. He has obviously conducted some telepathy with me on that | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
matter because I intend to refer to that later. I will give way to my | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
honourable friend. My honourable friend refers to the impact | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
statement. Does he think it is a scandal in 2015 that the impact | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
statement which the NUS dragged out of the ministry, which confirms that | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
this disproportionately affects black and minority ethnic students, | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
women and the disabled, does not merit a proper vote and debate in | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
this House? I entirely agree with my honourable friend, the distinguished | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
skills minister in this House. And I think the points he makess are valid | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
and ones which I will be coming on to in June course. -- the points he | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
makes. This is not tinkering with existing financial registration. -- | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
legislation. I think he is referring to the fact that 45% of the student | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
loan outlook, some ?5 billion, is delinquent in some way or other, and | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
adding 1.6 billion to that, the government is building up a huge | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
unfunded liability on its national accounts. I am grateful to my | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
honourable friend, who has great experience in these matters. Indeed, | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
not just the Institute for Fiscal Studies but other organisations have | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
commented on this matter. I will give way briefly. Wonderful to hear | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
the Labour Party talking about unfunded liabilities. Can I ask him, | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
he mentioned the ?1.5 billion cost of this. The money that we will be | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
saving. Can he confirmed, is at his party's policy to reverse this and | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
if so, from where would they get the money? I am delighted that the | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
honourable member is so looking forward to the arrival of a Labour | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
government that he is already asking asked detailed questions on this | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
matter. I would remind him that today is a day for governments to be | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
held to account for their feelings, rather than us. -- their feelings. I | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
must try to make progress. I will take more interventions later. These | :23:18. | :23:28. | |
measures typical of the ideology driven and evidence light approach | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
of this government. Every four years, a major departure of a | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
policy. Only four years after they hailed the advantages to the | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
disadvantaged, and statistics from the House of Commons library tell me | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
that these will affect 500,000 of England's most disadvantaged | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
students, amounting to a Domesday book listing the number of students | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
who will lose grants under the new rules. Universities across England | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
will be affected. Old and new. As well as other institutions. Further | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
education colleges will be affected, because they make an increasingly | :24:04. | :24:14. | |
valuable contribution, 10% and rising, and a disproportionate | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
number of their students will be affected. I am grateful to my | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
honourable friend and I commend him for bringing this debate to the | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
House of Commons so that we can have a vote on this important issue. He | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
talks about the impact on universities and colleges. He might | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
have seen the information that has been released in December of last | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
year, that shows that still today, twice as many young people from | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
advantaged backgrounds go on to university than from disadvantaged | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
backgrounds. How does he think that removing ?3500 worth of grants a | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
year is going to assist social mobility? We will have something | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
more to say about social mobility later on. But the reality of the | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
matter is that it does not, and the attitude of the government... I will | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
not give way, I will not give way. I have already indicated that there | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
are a large number of people who wish to speak and I need to give | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
them a chance to do so. I have already indicated I will give way. | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Would my honourable friend agree with me that | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
in the last Parliament, this government abolished the DNA for 16 | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
to 18-year-olds going into further education. Now they have abolished | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
the grants for higher education. Yet they don't tax cuts for millionaires | :25:48. | :25:50. | |
in the last Parliament. Does it not show that this Tory government is | :25:51. | :25:54. | |
not concerned about the poor and disadvantaged in this country. Look | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
at what they are doing with housing, university credit, disability and | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
education. They just don't care. My honourable friend has referred to | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
the abolition of the EN a grand, and that is not something for today but | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
I think that is important. -- EMA grant. It points to the problems | :26:16. | :26:25. | |
with these things, affecting further education colleges. It is a tumult | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
of affected if the result is that people do not apply to those | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
colleges in the future. That is why the Association of colleges said in | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
response that they have real concerns about the proposed changes. | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
Many of the students may never earn enough to pay back the money and the | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
policy does appear to penalise the poorest. I have already indicated | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
that I will not give way at this moment, I will give way in a little | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
while. The expansion of higher education opportunities and further | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
education colleges after 1997 was one of the most significant advances | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
under the Labour government in this area. And it was a crucial part in | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
beginning to address the lack of balance for higher education in the | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
English regions outside of the areas of clusters of long established | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
universities. It was part of a joined up strategy to embed higher | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
education and skills in our local economies and through the regional | :27:25. | :27:26. | |
development agencies at that time. In my own area of Blackpool, our | :27:27. | :27:33. | |
college gained excellent new higher education blocks in that period. | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
Today, over 2800 students are in that position of doing education | :27:40. | :27:46. | |
there. We know in further education that many of the students come | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
precisely from these nontraditional backgrounds for participation in | :27:52. | :27:52. | |
higher education. He is deploying the same argument | :27:53. | :28:04. | |
that was used against the introduction of tuition fees, which | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
was by the previous Labour government and developed by the | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
coalition. Yet what we have seen is an increase, and increase in the | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
number of students from disadvantaged backgrounds going to | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
university. His argument does not stack up! Perhaps if the honourable | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
gentleman will listen as I speak further about the way in which these | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
things have changed he will understand that the issue of what | :28:32. | :28:39. | |
was introduced in 2012, and, I would say, apologies, but the explanations | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
that his then come and gave for tripling Jewish and fees were based | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
on a series of quid pro quos. They have all now been abandoned by this | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
government. So the same pattern that I have talked about, incidentally, | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
is seen in the numbers doing higher education in many of the so-called | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
post-92 universities receiving a maintenance grant. And that is why | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
in their briefing for debate today, the organisation Million Plus which | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
has a significant number of those universities has expressed alarm. | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
They say that by the jewel of nothing more than hassled incomes, | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
some students will now be saddled with debts far in excess of their | :29:23. | :29:31. | |
from students and repaying in five years will exacerbate this problem | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
and it graduates the hardest. My former colleague, now vice | :29:35. | :29:40. | |
Chancellor of the University and a former higher education minister has | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
made those points in an excellent piece in Politics Home Today. Very | :29:46. | :29:53. | |
briefly... Mine is one of the poorest constituencies in England | :29:54. | :29:56. | |
yet rich in talent and maintenance grants mean a lot to students who | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
want to get on. 42% depend on them. Does the honourable member agree | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
with me that the government is both breaking a promise but also dashing | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
the hopes and dreams of a generation of strivers? I absolutely agree with | :30:11. | :30:18. | |
what might honourable friend says. He comes and speaks from that | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
established part of the West Midlands which is in the process of | :30:22. | :30:28. | |
trying to gain control over areas of activity in terms of their local | :30:29. | :30:30. | |
economies. And what the government is doing the people in Birmingham | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
and elsewhere is utterly confounding their own devolution prospects. I | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
will not give way at this stage, I might do so later. Please. We know | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
now, this is thanks to a question that I put to the honourable member, | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
the universities minister, to establish the extent of the issue, | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
how many people will be directly affected by the middle of the | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
maintenance grant? Statistics show that 33,700 English applicants were | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
awarded maintenance grants for higher education courses with | :31:08. | :31:09. | |
further education colleges. Within that figure, we have a roll call of | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
the English regions where it is not just the individuals but the local | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
economies and the growth of the skills there that have benefited | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
from this expansion of higher education and further education. | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
From those same student loan companies coming here are some | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
statistics for those on maintenance grants. In the north-west, Blackburn | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
College has 1842, in the north-east, Newcastle College group, 1169, in | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
south-west and Cornwall, Cornwall College, 931, and so the list goes | :31:44. | :31:50. | |
on. And on top of that, and a crucial subset of those statistics | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
is the numbers in those very areas where I've just referred to Mike | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
honourable friend from the Ming, the government is currently encouraging | :32:00. | :32:01. | |
combined authorities to take up their devolution offers. -- from | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
Birmingham. And therefore to have control in or take a role in higher | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
skills initiatives. Greater Manchester, 410 on maintenance | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
grants at Stockport College. Merseyside, 542 at the city of | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
Liverpool College. And the Institute of performing arts. Leeds, 1604 | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
across the colleges of music and art. And in London, with London's | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
huge sector catering and as many of the groups identified in the | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
qualities assessment, as my friend Mike the Member for Tottenham that, | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
at a time of pressure already from area reviews, and cuts, this new | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
proposal could be toxic. If the effect of these changes introduced | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
without consultation is too blunt Catskills and Parliament, this | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
government will be cutting off at the knees the very strategies for | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
English devolution for skills and social mobility that they claim to | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
be promoting. I will give way to my honourable friend. I thank my | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
honourable friend for giving way. Last week the Prime Minister said | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
his government's mission was to look every child in the eye and say, your | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
dreams are our dreams, we will support you with everything we've | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
got. Does Mike honourable friend agreed that scrapping grants, to | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
more than 5000 young people in Tower Hamlets, is a cap on aspiration and | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
stinks of hypocrisy? I certainly agree about the potential threat to | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
her constituents. It underlines what I have said in the context of | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
London. No, I will not give way on that point, until I have finished | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
with this one. As to the point about hypocrisy, it is not for me to | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
judge, I would recall that fine proverb that fine words but no | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
parsnips! Who wished to intervene? Social mobility, will he welcomed | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
the fact that more people from disadvantaged backgrounds are | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
accessing higher education, up from when Labour were in power, 13.6%, to | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
this or, more than 18%. Does he welcomed that? Blank of course I do. | :34:21. | :34:29. | |
The point I am trying to establish, if the honourable gentleman and his | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
colleagues would take the point, I'm trying to help them. These fine | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
words about social mobility and increase and the rest of it will go | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
in the opposite direction if they do not reconsider this measure. There | :34:41. | :34:48. | |
are a great number of people who want to speak, I've taken a number | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
of interventions already and I really must progress. I'm grateful | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
to the honourable gentleman. So the House is aware, on present trends | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
they will only be one hour in total for backbench speeches and 18 people | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
want to speak. So I am underlining the potency of the point that the | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
honourable gentleman has just made. Gordon Marsden. Mr Speaker. There is | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
this factor, nudge away from progress, nudge away from groups and | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
communities who are dead others, traditionally. Asking people at | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
further education colleges, to take on up to ?50,000 worth of debt, in | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
areas like the north-east, which in some areas could be the price of a | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
small house or flat, is what would concern colleges like new College | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
Durham, whose principal has said that nudge can work both ways, | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
especially for people who have signed up for foundation courses and | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
are considering going for honours. The more complex you make the | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
funding process, the more it can seem a barrier. These concerns I | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
know have been echoed by others recently. But it is the individual | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
life chances that maybe blighted or disrupted by these changes that | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
should weigh heavily on all of us. This is why NUS and their student | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
bodies have been so passionate in campaigning against this change. And | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
for me, all those individual cases and further education are summed up | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
by the e-mail I got yesterday from a student in Blackpool, who writes to | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
me as follows. Thank you for defending the students who will be | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
affected by the loss of grants. I am from Blackpool, in the second year | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
of my degree, and I am a married mature student with two children. I | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
had illness as a child which is why I'm doing this in my late 30s. A | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
complete U-turn by the government who said education shouldn't just be | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
for the privileged and shouldn't exclude the poor has now done | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
exactly that. So that is what my constituent says. These changes will | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
also affect significant numbers of students in traditional university | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
sector. 14,000 at Manchester, over 8000 at the University of matches | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
do, almost 11,000 at Nottingham Trent, 3738 at College London. A | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
potential list of lost opportunities, as I have said. | :37:16. | :37:18. | |
Turning to the impact of the regulations themselves, we can only | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
speculate on what impact they will have on the future cohorts of people | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
who come in. But apart from other work done, the National education | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
and opportunities network or the University and College union are | :37:35. | :37:36. | |
currently undertaking research with more than 2000 final year students | :37:37. | :37:44. | |
to look at how cost influences the higher education choices they make. | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
The interim findings from that research show that more than half | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
the students who are deciding not to go into higher education are taking | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
that decision because of the lack of direct financial maintenance grant | :37:58. | :37:59. | |
support which they had envisaged the year ahead. -- for the year ahead. | :38:00. | :38:07. | |
The quality assessment states that as an aggregate level there is | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
currently no evidence that the 2012 reforms which saw an increase in | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
higher education fees or debt levels has had a significant impact in | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
deterring young students from lower backgrounds. But I think that the | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
operative word is that there is currently no evidence. Because that | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
is now debatable. Because the safety net of maintenance grants which was | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
introduced in 2012 with the tripling of the fees is now being removed. | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
This is why the shadow Secretary of State wrote in her letter against | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
these regulations, we are concerned that this change will not improve | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
government finances in the long term. This echoes the view of the | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
Institute of fiscal. The replacement of maintenance grants by loans in | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
the system will raise debt for the poorest students and do little to | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
improve government finances in the long run. The ISF states that in the | :39:02. | :39:09. | |
short-term government borrowing will drop by ?2 million ago because | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
current spending on grounds counts towards borrowing while current | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
spending on loans does not. In the long run savings could well be less | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
than this. And the amount of money lent to students will rise by about | :39:20. | :39:27. | |
?2.3 billion for each cohort. But the IFS say only around one quarter | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
of those additional loans are likely to be paid. The net effect is | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
therefore to reduce government borrowing by ?270 million by cohort | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
in the long run, but 80% decline in the government's estimated | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
contribution to higher education. I want to quote the IFS have said. In | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
a fair and balanced way, they say that students from households with | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
pre-tax incomes of up to two and ?5,000, those currently eligible for | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
maintenance grants, will have some more cash in pocket. Yet they will | :40:00. | :40:09. | |
also graduate with 12 point ?5,000 -- ?12,000 moderate. So students | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
from poorest backgrounds are likely to leave university owing much more | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
to the government than their better of peers. It also states that the | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
poorest 40% of students at university in England will now | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
graduate with debts of up to ?53,000 from a three-year course, rather | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
than at 240,500, resulting from the placement of maintenance grants. As | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
I have already said, when the government tripled tuition fees in | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
2012 they tried to sweeten the pill by talking up the centrality of the | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
maintenance grant to ensure that the most disadvantaged could still | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
access higher education. They promised three things. National | :40:48. | :40:49. | |
scholarship programme, the maintenance grants for the | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
disadvantaged programme, and earnings related threshold that | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
would be upgraded with inflation. The then Minister of universities, | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
David Willetts, said, the increase in maintenance grants to students | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
from households with the lowest incomes, the National Scottish | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
programme, additional fair access requirements should ensure the | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
reforms do not affect individuals from lower socioeconomic backgrounds | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
disproportionately. That is what the Minister's predecessor in a | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
Conservative led government said in 2011-2012. But the regulations that | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
the government passed last week will disadvantage the very same group of | :41:30. | :41:31. | |
students that the government promised to protect. David Willetts | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
previously lauded these measures as a quid pro quo the troubling of | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
tuition fees, saying, they help to encourage people from poorer | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
backgrounds to go to university. Because of the higher education | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
maintenance grant, because of a higher repayment threshold. Now all | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
three elements of those promises have been broken, since the | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
election, by this government. The Minister's colleagues, now Lord | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
Willets, must be revolving in his ermine and the way his promises have | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
been so lightly regarded by this government. They set great store by | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
the principle of note, actions persuading people to change their | :42:15. | :42:16. | |
behaviour is for the better. I reminded the Minister last week and | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
I do so again that it's possible to people away from desirable outcomes, | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
rather than towards them. And a new study shows that more than half the | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
applicants said that they had felt that off by the cost of university. | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
That is backed up by what the sudden Trust has said. Shifting grants to | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
loans may move them off the balance sheet, but it and could also | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
determining low and middle-income students and to the balance against | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
their going to university. Since grounds were reintroduced there have | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
been significant improvements and we welcome that. -- since grants were | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
reduced. Yet they will be put at risk by today's budget plans. | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
Research from the NUS published last week shows parents are concerned | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
that the government 's plans to scrap the maintenance grant will | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
discourage their children from going to university. Two fifths of those | :43:09. | :43:16. | |
believe that to be the case. And the range of the groups affected by | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
these changes is daunting. The assessment concedes that some | :43:20. | :43:29. | |
students in particular will be worse off, as for older learners, mature | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
students will be disproportionately impacted by the policy proposals to | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
move the full grant and replace it with an additional loan as well as | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
the freezing of targeted grants. The government has also conceded in this | :43:43. | :43:43. | |
assessment that disabled people will be | :43:44. | :43:56. | |
disproportionately affected by the decision not protect the real Thames | :43:57. | :43:58. | |
Valley of disabled students allowances. The assessment also | :43:59. | :44:00. | |
spells out the potential for discrimination over religious | :44:01. | :44:01. | |
belief, stating that evidence suggests that there are groups of | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
Muslim students whose beliefs will prevent them from taking out such a | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
loan and finally women are to be affected disproportionately. The | :44:12. | :44:13. | |
assessment says that female students will be particularly affected by the | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
loss of childcare grants, and parental allowances, given their | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
significant overrepresentation in this population. Further to this, | :44:23. | :44:29. | |
the scrapping of 24 plus loans in further education is relevant to the | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
case today, because it indicates what has happened in previous | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
circumstances where the government has gone down this road. The | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
Minister knows that the government released figures in October 20 15th | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
which showed clear evidence of the deterrent impact on learners that I | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
and others want about when these loans were introduced as | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
replacements for grants in January 20 13. -- we warned about them. The | :44:53. | :44:59. | |
figures show that in 2014-15 only ?149 million of the 390 's and | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
million pounds allocated to the process had been taken up. No wonder | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
people in the further education community have lamented the lost | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
opportunity of ?250 million that could have helped some of our and | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
most disadvantaged learners. And now the very group of people who | :45:17. | :45:24. | |
benefited from the concessions given in 2013 by the honourable | :45:25. | :45:26. | |
predecessor of the Minister, the Member for the deep things, that | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
those who took that access to higher education courses would then have | :45:33. | :45:35. | |
the outstanding amount written off and that access course alone now | :45:36. | :45:37. | |
face another knock-back from this. These details should give the | :45:38. | :45:49. | |
Government pours the thought. It also appears the Government is yet | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
to produce any up-to-date estimate of the impact that the shift from | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
grants to loans will have on resource accounting and budgeting, | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
which calculates the cost of the Government or the higher education | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
funding system based on how much students are expected ultimately to | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
repay. What I would like to add the Minister and his colleagues today, | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
having heard the evidence that we have presented so far and comments | :46:14. | :46:16. | |
from around the floor, if they have been so confident about these | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
policies, why did they not bring them to the floor of the House? More | :46:20. | :46:26. | |
to the point, why did they not consult experts and organisations, | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
why did they not commission research from the reputable policy bodies? | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
Last month with a number of other MPs I sat in the corridor of this | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
place listening to hundreds of students who had come to lobby us. | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
Their message was a consistent one, scrapping maintenance grants will | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
leave poor people struggling to go to university. People here today | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
have talked about consequences, people talk about their own | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
experiences. I was a tutor for the open University the 20 years and | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
know the experience of many students who I taught was that they had been | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
put off higher education at an earlier age by the costs. Things do | :47:03. | :47:10. | |
not alter just because we are in the digital world of the 21st-century. | :47:11. | :47:17. | |
This cannot be divorced from the precarious position that so many of | :47:18. | :47:19. | |
those who studied part-time at present face statistics have shown | :47:20. | :47:28. | |
the number of first year part-time student in 2014 is down 6% on | :47:29. | :47:41. | |
previous years. The number of part-time higher education students | :47:42. | :47:43. | |
and the Conservatives came into office has fallen by nearly 40%. No | :47:44. | :47:49. | |
wonder the NUS has shown exasperation in this matter, and of | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
course related it to the trebling of student fees since 2012 for England | :47:54. | :48:02. | |
and English students, and no wonder also that the president of | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
universities UK and the Vice Chancellor of the University of cant | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
said the decline of part-time numbers was a serious cause for | :48:10. | :48:11. | |
concern. In the meantime, the nudge factors | :48:12. | :48:30. | |
are very strong against it, the open University has expressed its | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
alarming commenting on the Minister's higher education green | :48:34. | :48:40. | |
paper that the flexible learning is that the heart of the development. | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
Isn't this why we need a proper discussion, and aren't they were | :48:45. | :48:46. | |
reasons why, and I invite the Minister to say so in his response, | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
we need to have a commitment to the further education bill being brought | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
to the House? There is a lack of balance and this issue is not going | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
to go away. It is not the prize in connection have been made between | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
the specific ways this Government has tried to dodge scrutiny in this | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
matter. No wonder the Minister appeared in at ease in committee. | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
But perhaps the blame lies elsewhere. In the article, it says | :49:14. | :49:21. | |
it is the Chancellor who tried to smuggle through his tax credit | :49:22. | :49:24. | |
changes and we almost what happened to them. It is the Treasury that | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
mismanaged the process. The Chancellor is promoting himself as | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
the Government's Master builder. He preens himself as he boast about the | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
march of the makers and the Government under his watch fixing | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
the roof while the sun is shining. But the truth is the Chancellor is a | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
manual have to read the small print with. This is a man who has | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
consistently mixed target and as far as building a future for Britain's | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
learners is concerned, he is Mr dodgy, whose actions are not likely | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
to get him a certificate from the Confederation of Master builders. | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
When the sun is shining, he has dislodged slates on the way down and | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
disguised cuts in adult skills and efficiencies as his new officials | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
call them. He is pushing those students precisely off the ladder of | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
social mobility. It is time for him to get real. In the real world, when | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
the inactivity of demand eventually snaps and stretching the envelope | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
will finally break it, the direction of travel by threatening to deliver | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
not a northern powerhouse but a northern poorhouse and underlining | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
his regional strategy, we want no part of this narrative of failure, | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
and nor should this House. That is why we calling this afternoon to | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
make ministers think again, to support this notion and to an old | :50:48. | :50:54. | |
this misguided regulation that this Government has tried to hide away. | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
The question is as on the order paper. Before I call the Minister of | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
State for universities and science, for whom the House will want to hear | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
and will need to tweak the matters in property tell, I gently expressed | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
the hope that the combined affect of the intellectual powerhouses on the | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
two frontbenchers and their enthusiasm for communication will | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
not succeed in crowding out backbenchers. We have also to hear | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
from other distinguished intellects later on in summing up the debate | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
and I hope that the product of their grey cells will be meeting and it | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
will not be too big -- will be meaty. Minister. I welcome the | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
opportunity to explain why it would be a mistake to vote for the | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
opposition most sins -- motions which attempted to annul the | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
committee last Thursday. The instrument delivers the Government's | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
policy to offer increased financial support the living costs for new in | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
the 16th-17 academic year in the form of loans rather than grants. It | :52:03. | :52:08. | |
is part of a plan to ensure our world-class higher education sector | :52:09. | :52:09. | |
remained sustainably financed and open to more students from all | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
backgrounds. This Government is extending the benefits of higher | :52:14. | :52:16. | |
education to more people than ever before. We have lifted the | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
artificial cap on student numbers, and I went record numbers to secure | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
places last year. With a higher education sector that is not | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
sustainable funded -- but a higher education sector that is not | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
sustainable funded cannot deliver what students expect. In the context | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
of fiscal restraint, ensuring we have a sustainable model that our | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
higher education system is crucial. In this respect, this measure builds | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
on successful reforms since 2010 which delivered a higher education | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
system that delivers full students and taxpayers. The OECD has | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
commended these reforms for the sensible balance they strike between | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
the interests of taxpayers and students and its directory of higher | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
education has said England is one of the very few countries that has | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
figured out a sustainable approach to higher education financing. | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
Recently on a trip to and on he added, England has made a wise | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
choice. It works for individuals, it works for Government. I am grateful | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
to him. If it is so well and good, why wasn't it in his manifesto? I am | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
grateful to the honourable member for raising that point. If you read | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
page 35 of the Conservative Party manifesto he will see a clear | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
commitment to continuing the funding reforms I have just described, and | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
ensuring a fair balance between the interests of taxpayers and students. | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
There are also many other references in the Conservative manifesto to the | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
need to achieve budget deficit savings. Mr Speaker, may I start by | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
beginning to address the questions about the scrutiny of the | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
regulations, points raised by the honourable member opposite? These | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
were not sneaked in, as he suggested. The policy was first | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
announced in principle at the summer 15 budget nearly six months ago. It | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
was in fact included in the Chancellor's summer budget speech, | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
one of the most closely scrutinised if events in the Parliamentary | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
calendar. The decision finally to proceed was made as part of the | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
Spending Review in November 2015 and the instrument was laid before the | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
House on December the 2nd. A comprehensive 80 page equity and | :54:32. | :54:37. | |
equality analysis was published the next day in line with an earlier | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
commitment and made voluntarily to this House. I will say more about | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
this later. The regulations were made under power was granted to the | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
Secretary of State either previous Labour Government under the teaching | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
and higher education act 1998, rather than using some obscure and | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
arcane procedure as honourable members, let me finish my point, | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
have suggested. We are following the very Parliamentary processes which | :55:06. | :55:07. | |
the last Labour Government created for this purpose. Labour asked for a | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
debate on the regulations on December the 9th. The Government | :55:14. | :55:16. | |
tabled a motion which appeared on the order paper on January the 5th | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
referring these regulations do a delegation committee. Labour did not | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
object. The regulations went to the delegated Legislation committee on | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
January 14. Put simply, the process were put in place by Labour when | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
they were lasting Government, and they didn't object to it on January | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
the 5th, when they had the chance. I now welcome the chance very much to | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
debate the issue further this afternoon on this opposition Day | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
debate, knowing the other place will also get a chance to consider the | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
instrument following the motion tabled on January 30. I thank him | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
for giving great. I have been contacted by a large number of | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
people including students from Gosford Academy, Newcastle and | :56:07. | :56:08. | |
Cumbria universities, and they would like to know from the Minister when | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
they will have the opportunity to feed into the public consultation on | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
this issue? This is a matter which the House has debated in the | :56:18. | :56:23. | |
delegated Legislation committee. There was a thorough 80 page | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
analysis, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills | :56:30. | :56:31. | |
maintains an ongoing regular dialogue with all stakeholders on | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
matters relating to higher education. We welcome the scrutiny | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
because this Government is rightly proud of its record on higher | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
education. Since 2010 we have delivered bold reform of higher | :56:45. | :56:52. | |
education putting in place a funding model that has ensured our | :56:53. | :56:59. | |
risen in real terms, it has able | :57:00. | :57:08. | |
to 26 billion in 2014 and is forecast to rise by 2017-18. Let's | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
not forget the difficult fiscal circumstances in which this was | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
achieved, against the background of a record deficit, providing this | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
financial security could only be achieved by asking students to meet | :57:23. | :57:25. | |
a greater part of their education paid not upfront but out of their | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
future earnings. This recognised the principle that if you benefit from | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
higher education and secure higher lifetime earnings and people who do | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
not go to university, you should contribute to the cost of your | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
education. I thank the Minister forgiving way. He is aware that | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
students from disadvantaged backgrounds are less likely to go to | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
university already. Those from more advantageous backgrounds to .5 times | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
more likely. This change will make it much worse. Can he please face up | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
to the facts and do something to to this question. If the Government was | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
serious about social mobility these cuts would not be made and he should | :58:06. | :58:07. | |
be honest about that. This government is committed to | :58:08. | :58:15. | |
social mobility and we are delighted we have more students now going into | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
higher education than ever before at a record level of 18.5%. You are now | :58:21. | :58:27. | |
36% more likely to go to university if you are from a disadvantaged | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
background today than you were when we took office in 2010. The Prime | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
Minister has committed to doubling the proportion of students from | :58:36. | :58:41. | |
disadvantaged pup backgrounds by 2020 and we are doing everything in | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
our power to ensure that happens. It is this sustainable model of funding | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
that has allowed us to have more people benefit. Removing the cap on | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
student numbers has allowed more people to benefit from higher | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
education than ever before and now almost 50% of young people are | :59:01. | :59:07. | |
likely to undertake some form of higher education in their lifetime. | :59:08. | :59:16. | |
Brighton and Hove City Council has set up the fairness commission to | :59:17. | :59:19. | |
ensure it delivers fairness and social mobility in its policy | :59:20. | :59:25. | |
making. With 3700 students out of 10,000 at Sussex University on | :59:26. | :59:32. | |
maintenance grants, has at their job to lawful lot harder because of your | :59:33. | :59:39. | |
policy? -- hasn't their job. What the honourable member can tell his | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
constituents is that higher education remains a transformation | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
experience. They are likely to go on to earn a lot more over their | :59:51. | :00:02. | |
lifetime than if they don't. We must acknowledge the success of our | :00:03. | :00:07. | |
reforms, as a consequence, we have found today a higher education | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
system with record numbers going to university, record numbers of people | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
from disadvantaged backgrounds going to university, the highest rates of | :00:16. | :00:22. | |
BME participation and more women are displayed than ever before. This all | :00:23. | :00:33. | |
stems from a clear manifesto commitment. What I would like to say | :00:34. | :00:42. | |
to members opposite is that those of them who oppose this policy today | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
and want to introduce more direct taxpayer support us think about | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
whether they would also have to reintroduce the student number | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
controls we abolished and prevent thousands of young people from | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
attending university. Does the honourable member wished to | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
reintroduced student number controls? Applications to the most | :01:03. | :01:09. | |
selective universities from students from lower income has fallen since | :01:10. | :01:17. | |
2010. What impact will this policy have on that number dropping | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
further? We want people from disadvantaged backgrounds to go to | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
the very best universities in this country. We want to see those | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
numbers increase which is why we have in our guidance letters to the | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
director of the office for spare access, asked him to pay particular | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
attention to institutions that are not pulling their weight in terms of | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
getting people in from disadvantaged backgrounds. We will continue that | :01:43. | :01:51. | |
in our next letter. In terms of painful university, does the | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
Minister agree that it is difficult for me to explain to people in my | :01:55. | :02:04. | |
constituency, that the alternative is for them to pay more in their | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
taxes? That is precisely the point. It is unfair on people who do not go | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
to university to pay for education of those who go on in their | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
lifetimes to earn a considerable youth more than they will | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
themselves, on average men who go to university will earn ?170,000 more | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
in their working life time than someone with two available to does | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
not go to university. It is entirely fair that we ensure that they | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
contribute to the cost of their higher education. Let me now turn to | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
specific changes to student finance to the coming academic year. The | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
instrument delivers more money for students from some of the most | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
disadvantaged backgrounds. Evidence suggests students are primarily | :02:56. | :02:57. | |
concerned about the level of maintenance support they receive are | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
studying. They understand student loans are not like commercial debt | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
in that they are progressive and only repaid in line with future | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
incomes. As a result of these regulations and eligible student | :03:11. | :03:12. | |
whose family income is ?25,000 or less and who is living away from | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
home and studying outside London will qualify for up to 10.3% more in | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
living costs are poured in 2016-17 than they would under current | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
arrangements. An additional support. Those who vote for the motion to | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
annul this will deny poorer students this extra cash. Studies show the | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
graduates will on average earn ?100,000 more over their lifetime. | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
This premium could reach ?250,000 for female graduates than those who | :03:47. | :04:00. | |
have two A-levels or less. The system we put in place ensures | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
higher education is open to everyone with the potential to benefit from | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
it irrespective of background. Oppositions them scaremongering only | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
risks deterring students from attending university. Whilst the | :04:14. | :04:21. | |
data available so far is only provisional, data from UCAS | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
indicates application rates are broadly in line with last year. | :04:28. | :04:38. | |
Let's not undo the good work of people touring the country. Over | :04:39. | :04:50. | |
45,000 from England each year choose to study elsewhere in the UK. How | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
does scrapping the maintenance grants incentivise them to travel | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
further from their home to get the benefit of education at universities | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
outside of England? I would point out to the honourable member that we | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
are making a record amount of financial support available to those | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
students, more than has been provided by any previous government | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
and that will enable them to travel further away from home. Let me turn | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
to the significant savings achieved by these changes. The switch from | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
maintenance grants to loans will save around ?2.5 billion per year | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
from the fiscal deficit. We acknowledge the proportion of loans | :05:33. | :05:39. | |
will not be repaid. This is a conscious decision to invest in the | :05:40. | :05:41. | |
skills base of our country and protect those who go on to lower | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
paying graduate jobs. We forecast the long-term annual economic | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
savings will be around ?800 million per year. The Minister said there | :05:51. | :06:02. | |
was a deficit review. I agree with all points he made on grounds of | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
social mobility that isn't the point this, 45% of his loan book at the | :06:08. | :06:17. | |
moment declared delinquent for Ron reason or another. How much of this | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
will he get back? Isn't he just pretending he was making savings, | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
when really he is building up unfunded liabilities? There was an | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
immediate grant saving of ?2.5 billion which directly comes off the | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
budget deficit. As I just mentioned, there is also the prospect of some | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
loans not being repaid. As a result of a conscious decision by the | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
government to invest in the skills base of the country. The economic | :06:46. | :06:55. | |
value of the savings is ?800 million a year in steady state. I challenge | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
the opposition to explain how they would find their alternatives. I | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
note the Labour Party have in the past year put forward competing | :07:04. | :07:05. | |
higher education funding policies and that they share one significant | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
feature and that is their huge cost to the taxpayer. Labour's leader | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
Jeremy Corbyn said in July that these should be removed completely | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
with grants retained in full. This was costed by Labour itself at ?10 | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
billion. These policies because backwards, they are unsustainable | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
and at a conservative estimate would add over ?40 billion to the deficit | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
over a five-year parliament. We should be clear about what this | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
would mean, it would mean more reckless borrowing, more taxes on | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
hard-working people and the reintroduction of student number | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
controls. We have lifted these controls and we went to allow the | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
Labour Party to reimpose a cap on young people's aspirations. I will | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
turn now to the risks associated with this policy as set out in the | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
quality analysis. Let me first quickly address the full circulation | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
that we refuse to print published the assessment and all prompted to | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
do do so by the NUS. This is not true. And equality analysis covering | :08:10. | :08:20. | |
the changes is published. This is standard practice. On the 14th of | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
September I provided a written response to a Parliamentary question | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
saying, the government expects to laymen mince to the education | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
student support regulations and publish something when they are | :08:37. | :08:45. | |
laid. It was only on the 22nd of September 2015, more than one week | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
after this answer, that the NUS gave notice that they were seeking to | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
legally challenge our policy. There has been no pervasiveness in | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
presenting this policy or its potential impacts. Let me turn | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
finally to some of the issues that the equality analysis identifies and | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
how they will be mitigated. Simmer issues were identified as a result | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
of the 20 12th reforms that did not crystallise. We have a world-class | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
higher education system with record numbers of disadvantage students in | :09:16. | :09:22. | |
higher education. Our impact assessment and explained the risks | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
will be mitigated by at least three factors including the 10.3% increase | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
in maximum loan for living costs, the repayment protection for low | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
earning students and high average returns to higher education. More | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
funding is also being provided through access agreements. Into a | :09:41. | :09:52. | |
216- is 17, -- this is money that makes the difference to disadvantage | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
students. The University of York, 40% of | :09:56. | :10:09. | |
students get a maintenance grant. What impact assessment have you had | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
on universities by not attracting the students because they cannot | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
afford to attend? As I have already said and I say again to the | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
honourable member, we're making a record amount of financial support | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
available and students from the poorest backgrounds will benefit | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
from a 10.3% increase in financial support available. They will have | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
more cash in their pockets than ever before. I hope I have been able to | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
clarify some of the misconceptions around this policy. The steps we are | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
taking to increase living costs port and the process surrounding it and I | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
will finish by appointing members opposite is the direction of Ed | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
balls interview in the Times. He said the blot on neighbours copybook | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
is that we clearly didn't find a sustainable way forward for the | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
financing of higher education. If the electric think you have the | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
answer to the future, they will support you. -- electorate. We are | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
taking action to ensure university finances are sustainable so more | :11:14. | :11:15. | |
people can benefit from higher education than ever before. | :11:16. | :11:24. | |
Before I call the front bench spokesperson for the SNP, can I | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
remind you that there are 18 people that want to catch my eye. Wind ups | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
will start in just over an hour so we will have a time limit of three | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
or four minutes by the time we get to backbench contributions, so if | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
you could be as concise as possible we will hopefully get everybody in. | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, education has been a priority in Scotland for over | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
300 years. In the mid-16th century the established church in Scotland | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
decided to set up a school in every parish to enable children to read | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
the Bible and access its teachings. By the early 18th century, Scottish | :12:05. | :12:12. | |
children lead the world in terms of literacy levels, and fuelled the | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
Scottish Enlightenment. This is important because it highlights the | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
differences in terms of how education is geared across these | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
isles. The focus in Scotland remains the student. There is a commitment | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
not only to the young person's education but also an | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
acknowledgement that the same young person will develop skills through | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
their university career that make them an asset to the country. No, I | :12:40. | :12:48. | |
won't. I have been reminded to be brief. In contrast, what we see from | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
this Tory Government is an ideological attack on the most | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
disadvantaged students. Whilst still at school, talented pupils in | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
England have had their education maintenance allowance scrapped, | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
forcing some youngsters to leave before they have reached their | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
potential. In England and Wales we see fees of ?9,000 per year being | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
imposed on students, and now we see Grants for the poorest being | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
scrapped with the Chancellor describing them as unaffordable. | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
Using language such as unaffordable, does the Chancellor considered these | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
young people to be an asset? In my previous profession as a secondary | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
school teacher, I often came across extremely able pupils from difficult | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
backgrounds. It was important early on in their school career to planned | :13:46. | :13:54. | |
a seed about possible career aspirations, because even with their | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
academic success, to get them to university was not a certainty, and | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
a lot of work had to be done both with the young people and their | :14:04. | :14:05. | |
parents to encourage this progression. The honourable lady | :14:06. | :14:15. | |
speaks with eloquence and knowledge because her past in secondary | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
education has given her a great experience and I very much welcome | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
her contribution. I would, though, challenge the way she is expressing | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
herself on the difference between Scottish and English education on | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
the grounds that English education has seen a greater mobility of | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
children from all backgrounds to achieve tertiary education and in | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
Scotland that is increasingly not the case. Would she not agree with | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
me that the Scottish National party's achievement in the last five | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
years has been a fall in social and the international re-education, and | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
not arise? Once we hear the myth being expressed -- in tertiary | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
education. If we look at numbers of young people going directly from | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
school to university there is work to be done, non-bus would that. | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
However, in Scotland, young people have many more pathways to access | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
university, and if we look at the number of children going through | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
further education colleges, the numbers of young people from | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
disadvantaged backgrounds in Scotland are significantly higher | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
than the rest of the UK. To go back to these young people and their | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
parents, and eventually the chat would change to the logistics and | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
how they were going to afford it. We had to go into the detail. Of | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
course, the parent usually full of pride, often the child is the first | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
in the family to have even thought about going to university. | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
Explaining that in Scotland tuition is free makes a huge difference, but | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
then the parents still have to weigh things up. They have been expecting | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
a new breadwinner contributing to the household. They have been | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
expecting that their daughter or son's Saturday job was going to | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
become their full career. Instead, the financial burden on the families | :16:08. | :16:15. | |
is stretching on. I will give way. I am grateful. My constituent is an | :16:16. | :16:24. | |
English student studying in Wales, already facing debts of ?36,000, and | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
if these proposals went through it would rise to 60 5000. Does the | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
honourable lady think this will encourage him to pursue his career | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
path into teaching or not -- rise to ?65,000. The fact is the barrier | :16:41. | :16:49. | |
then becomes unsurmountable for these young people will stop I was | :16:50. | :16:58. | |
one of five who managed to go to university and got grants at that | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
time. For my family it would have been impossible for us to access a | :17:04. | :17:10. | |
university education. Being able to say to these parents, yes, there is | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
some support available, yes, you will be able to apply for financial | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
help, it makes a massive difference to the decisions of family will | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
make. When there is less family support around, this financial | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
support of a grant becomes a lifeline. Of course, students can | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
apply for loans to support them through their course, and many do, | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
but we have to understand that loans are not viewed in a similar manner | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
from children across different backgrounds. For families who are | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
living under the constant threat of debt, for whom life is a continual | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
battle to survive between meagre wage packets, the decision to take | :17:58. | :18:05. | |
out a loan, introducing further debt, is extremely difficult, and | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
often it is one that they just cannot take. I thank her for giving | :18:09. | :18:16. | |
way. I cannot agree with you more on that point. The Institute for Fiscal | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
Studies have said that the debt of the poorest 40% of students will | :18:22. | :18:28. | |
increase by ?12,500 to ?53,500. I don't know where the members | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
opposite are coming from, but from my point of view, as someone who | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
came from a working-class background, that would have put me | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
off from going to university and will put many thousands of students | :18:40. | :18:51. | |
from going to university. This is not about social mobility, there is | :18:52. | :18:53. | |
no point of social justice here, it is about social cleansing and | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
keeping them out of university, and it is wrong. I agree wholeheartedly | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
with the comments the honourable member has made. I would like to | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
move on at this point to widening access. There has been some success | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
in widening access, that has to be applauded. But there is a real | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
danger that the excellent work that has already been done will be rude | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
to Lee underdone if these grants are scrapped -- brutally underdone. Last | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
week I heard a member from the benches opposite in a different | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
context refer to grants as free money. Let me be quite clear. Grants | :19:29. | :19:40. | |
are not free money. Grants are paid, the grant I received as a student | :19:41. | :19:48. | |
was paid back over 20 years as a physics teacher. The bursary is | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
provided to student nurses are paid back when they provide vital care in | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
our NHS. The grants paid to students across these isles will be paid back | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
when they take their place as educated contributors to our | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
workforce and our nations. In Scotland, education has been a key | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
national priority for over 300 years, with the Scottish Government | :20:17. | :20:18. | |
commitment to our young people clear. The UK Government has to ask | :20:19. | :20:28. | |
itself, does it value education and the benefits to society that | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
education brings? Does it value the skills gained by our young people? | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
Or is this simply another attack on the most former rebel? -- | :20:42. | :20:50. | |
vulnerable. I'm going to put a time limit of four minutes onto | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
backbencher contributions, so we might get through everybody. The | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
problem with today's debate is simple, there is no alternative | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
being offered to the bill which has been put before the House. This | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
leads on to the broader point in this conversation, that, for all of | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
the huffing and puffing from the benches opposite, their idea of | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
social mobility is, we will just give lots of money and let lots of | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
people go and worry about paying it back later even though the economy | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
will crash like it did before. Social mobility went down 30% under | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
13 years of Labour Government, given away last week when the Leader of | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
the Opposition thought it was a bad policy for us to improve social | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
housing and get rid of some of the sink estates, the idea that where | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
you are born is where you should stay and we will but after you by | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
printing money. Absolute nonsense. I worked in the higher education | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
sector for many years. I was asked a direct question was about what would | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
happen if we hadn't increased tuition fees? The answer came back, | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
we would limit the number of people who could go. I think that is | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
abysmal. For all of the talking from the honourable member about being | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
from a working-class background, guess what? So were people on this | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
site as well. You try to bring class warfare into an argument which is | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
absolute nonsense. It is not just about the quantity of students, if | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
we hadn't increased the funding it is the quality of the degree each | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
student would receive that would suffer. Entirely. That is why | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
efforts have been made to address the A-level and exam system in this | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
country, because as somebody who was outward facing in my career | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
university it was shocking to go to countries in Europe, like Germany, | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
and be told they were worried about the standard of degrees coming out | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
because of the A-levels which work being done to get to those courses. | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
As a prime example, we had to lay on two extra modules of basic maths in | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
year one of our engineering degrees and had students who simply could | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
not cope with the mathematics being used who had good grades at A-level. | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
This is all part of a bigger picture, this is what the point | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
about the debate today is, it has got to be about opportunities for | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
everybody going to university. It is all very well picking on one area | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
and saying, you shouldn't cut this. Is there any alternative as to how | :23:20. | :23:26. | |
that money should be raised? The consequence is the system becomes | :23:27. | :23:28. | |
unaffordable, and then you limit the numbers of people who can go bust up | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
I went to a comprehensive school, my parents were teachers, I went to | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
university, became a teacher and then an MP. My sister has just | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
qualified at the Royal College of surgeons. No money was spent to send | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
us to school, we got part-time jobs, I took on a job at WH Smith when I | :23:48. | :23:55. | |
was still at school. He is telling the House in clear terms and | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
explicit Conservative story of hard work, opportunity, and meritocracy, | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
in sharp contradiction to the narrative opposite where they were | :24:09. | :24:10. | |
too busy thinking about their reshuffle rather than the order and | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
were too busy trying to plot and plan to keep people in their places | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
while costing the glass ceilings. My honourable friend begs an excellent | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
point. This is what today's debate from the opposition is about, not | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
about the best interests of how to move the country forward. That is | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
white under 13 years of Labour whistled social mobility reduced, | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
they are statistics that you cannot argue with. A 36% increase in the | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
numbers from the poorest background going to university, we raised the | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
level at which you had to pay back a student loan to ?21,000, the fact we | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
have reduced the amount you pay back each day, the fact you don't start | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
paying interest on to leave university, the fact it has got a | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
time limit so it gets written off after a period of time. All of these | :25:00. | :25:08. | |
things are key aspects in making sure we can get people to university | :25:09. | :25:10. | |
and week the best of their potential. Does he agree with me | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
that the way to encourage social mobility and getting more | :25:15. | :25:16. | |
disadvantaged backgrounds into university is firstly to improve | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
their chances in education in the first instance and also encourage | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
and show them what they could achieve and raise their expectations | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
and confidence, not try to frighten them with fears of debt in the | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
future? My honourable friend is right, what we have seen time and | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
again from the party opposite is this argument off, you cannot afford | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
to go to university, you will have huge debts, you from a poor | :25:40. | :25:50. | |
background so don't go because you will be worried about debt, don't | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
increase your life chances. It is an absolute disgrace of modern politics | :25:54. | :25:55. | |
that this is the rubbish paddled from the other side. What we have in | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
this country is an X Factor generation who believe that they can | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
go on to the X Factor and windy X Factor and become rich. Why didn't | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
we have that about the possibilities and academic education and | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
professional careers? Because you had a Labour Government who wanted | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
to keep them where they were. You may be lucky enough to pull yourself | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
out of that situation but if you don't, don't worry, we will keep | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
borrowing money and rack up debts that people working hard campaign | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
for so you can stay where you are. That is not what we believe on this | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
side of the House, we believe of a generation who go out and pull | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
themselves up and get the education they are capable of getting and | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
becoming the people who drive this country. This idea we have already | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
heard today that there is the working class, here is the upper | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
class on this side of the House, it is so outdated and misguided that it | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
is quite frankly laughable, and that has been the problem with this | :26:47. | :26:49. | |
opposition since we came back into the start of this Parliament, it has | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
been laughable. It is laughable that the opposition bring forward a | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
motion today saying, we don't agree with the legislative process that | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
we'd laid down back in 1998, we say that you didn't do anything about | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
this when the time was right, but actually it was laid before the | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
floor of the House. This is purely trying to stop the old class wars | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
because that is all the Labour Party have to fall back on. | :27:17. | :27:54. | |
come up with something that may take the situation in a better direction. | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
Simply saying something like we don't like it is pathetic. It's that | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
that is what we have come to expect from this opposition. I want to | :28:06. | :28:14. | |
begin by thanking my colleagues, the members for a remark for the fact | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
that this debate is taking place. I am very pleased that at least we | :28:20. | :28:37. | |
are able to call the minister to account this afternoon. However, I | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
think it is extremely disappointing that he showed no contrition | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
whatsoever for introducing policies that are likely to limit the | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
aspirations of many young people in this country at the very least make | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
it more difficult for them to achieve it. I will not give way to | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
the honourable gentleman because we are yet we do know that these | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
changes will affect many students. The House of Commons states that in | :29:04. | :29:10. | |
2014-15 395,000 students receive the full grant with 135,000 getting a | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
partial grant. This amounts to over half a million students. Students | :29:18. | :29:24. | |
who go to higher education from families with an annual income of | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
?25,000 or less are eligible for this full grant of ?3387, and | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
students from households with an annual income of between ?25,000 and | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
?42,000 are eligible for the partial grant. However, in the summer budget | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
of July, it was cited that France had become unaffordable. -- grants. | :29:49. | :29:58. | |
Politics is about priorities and this government has simply chosen | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
not to prioritise the needs of students from low income families | :30:03. | :30:10. | |
and astoundingly, to make them a target for cuts. Yet the government | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
has talked endlessly about the importance of hard work and | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
rewarding those who want to achieve and yet now they are undoubtedly | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
making it more difficult for a number of our young people to have | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
the opportunity to access higher education. The move to ?9,000 fees | :30:26. | :30:34. | |
in 2012 has meant that students and graduates now contribute 75% towards | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
the overall cost of their higher education. The replacement of grants | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
by loans will further increase the contribution of individuals compare | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
to the government and yet no conversation has taken place with | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
students, their parents or across the country as to what the balance | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
should be. We do know that these changes will lead to an increase in | :30:58. | :31:05. | |
debt for poorer students. Assuming students take out the maximum loan, | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
the ISS estimate average debt for a three-year course will rise from | :31:12. | :31:18. | |
about ?14,500 under the old system to ?53,000 in the new system. This | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
is not a fear of debt, this is an actual increase in debt and we also | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
know from the impact statement that these changes will impact | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
particularly on women, older students and students from ethnic | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
minorities. Reason alone to stop these policies in their tracks. And | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
I know I stand here as someone who is passionate about supporting | :31:43. | :31:50. | |
students from all backgrounds who -- wants to have access higher | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
education, we know these changes are likely to make it more difficult for | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
them to do so. As a country we need to ensure that our young people have | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
the skills to enable them to compete on a global labour market and I am | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
concerned that these changes will prevent them from doing so. Honour | :32:09. | :32:20. | |
to follow the honourable lady. A speech combining both expertise and | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
passion. I will follow in the footsteps of the Leader of the | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
Opposition, that is his new style of reading out e-mails from | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
constituents. I am aware that students are concerned about this | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
measure. I have had an e-mail from the vice president of the Kent | :32:40. | :32:46. | |
student union, is concerned that if grants are removed, young people | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
from poorer backgrounds will accrue more debt Bruno fought at their own. | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
My answer to him and all others concerned about this, I don't | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
believe this will hinder access to higher education for those from | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
poorer grants. Number one, we are increasing the cash they will have | :33:03. | :33:03. | |
in their to sustain University and deal with | :33:04. | :34:11. | |
the costs they will face on a day-to-day basis. Secondly, because | :34:12. | :34:13. | |
we are increasing the level by which you repay your student debt from | :34:14. | :34:15. | |
?15,000 to ?21,000. If you don't earn that, you don't repay. | :34:16. | :34:17. | |
Statistics show this is not having the impact that members opposite are | :34:18. | :34:19. | |
warning. People... Under this policy, the beneficiary pays. I will | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
give way. We have increased social mobility. It does not echo the words | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
of the Prime Minister. In terms of the principle of the beneficiary | :34:26. | :34:27. | |
pays, it is about those poorer working class people who will not go | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
to university, who chose not to go to university, not getting them to | :34:31. | :34:32. | |
pay for the education of others who will go on to earn significantly | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
more than them. It is a fair principle. That is why this is about | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
fairness. The key point I want to make is that it is about the quality | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
of education. What really matters to that student from disadvantaged | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
background is that they achieve an excellent degree and that enables | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
them to earn a good salary and get on in life. That is the most | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
important thing. If universities are well funded, students will have more | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
chance of a quality degree but I'll so believe profoundly that when | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
people pay for something, when they contribute, they taken more | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
seriously and therefore they get more of it. The SNP are laughing and | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
it is delighting to seize their many of them here because there was only | :35:13. | :35:19. | |
two or three of or three of them hate yesterday and I was quite | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
surprised. In my experience, before it came to the house, we were a | :35:23. | :35:30. | |
mortgage broker and we were fortunate to have an exclusive | :35:31. | :35:32. | |
arrangement with Britannia that the Society for graduates. -- building | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
society. It never fails to astonish me, having seen the jury thousands | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
of applications, that the more debt those graduates had, the higher | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
their earnings were. Often because they took professional studies. The | :35:51. | :35:53. | |
number of people who have professional studies loaned from | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
banks who have gone on to study law, they have the highest earnings. Of | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
course we don't want people to have ridiculously high debt, and that is | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
why they would be cancelled after 30 years if not repaid. But I think we | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
have to get our heads around the key point here, the quality of education | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
is what really matters. Does he agree that by extending the system | :36:18. | :36:24. | |
of finance so that more part-time students and more postgraduate | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
students can receive funding, it is actually helping social mobility and | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
greater opportunities for people who otherwise wouldn't be able to have | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
access to higher education and postgraduate education? This is an | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
excellent point because I was good to mention the fact that the | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
minister is actually bringing forward for the first time masters | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
loans and I think that is important. In my experience I found those who | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
had borrowed... Birds Eye watering sums to do those courses where the | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
biggest sums were payable, they often had very high earnings indeed | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
and that is the reality of life and it is about the quality degree you | :37:05. | :37:14. | |
get. I will wrap up because I know lots of honourable members want to | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
get in. I will touch on a broader economic issue. When we talk about | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
graduates, we know that the number of graduate jobs has just increased | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
by 7.5%. The most important contribution the government can make | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
to higher education is to have a strong economy offering lots of | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
opportunities for our graduates to ensure they can and the salaries and | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
therefore repay the cost of education that they have benefit | :37:39. | :37:53. | |
from. The Minister relies on increase in participation to | :37:54. | :37:55. | |
universities and record numbers of students going to universities will | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
stop I did its job once and I remember standing at the dispatch | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
box and say the very same thing that the debate we are having today is | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
not really about that, it is not about the widening participation, | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
about numbers of students. It is about the cohort of students whose | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
parents are from poor or working-class backgrounds, they are | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
dinner ladies, they run minicabs, they are security guards, they are | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
receptionists, they are people on Syria our contracts, people who are | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
unemployed. It is about their children who aspire to go to | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
universities. -- zero our contracts. That is why it is quite out raises | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
that other former minister with responsibilities that universities I | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
am just allowed four minutes in this debate. Back in 2009 when we made | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
changes on maintenance grants, we were able to actually increase the | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
amount we were given to students earning less than 25 thousand pounds | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
and increase the amount of partial grants for students whose parents | :39:05. | :39:19. | |
had incomes up Dutchman. -- it is an outrage, frankly, that this kind of | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
scrutiny has been dragged out of the minister because of the work of the | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
NUS and the work of the front bench of the Labour Party. It should have | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
been something that was a debating point. I have to say to the minister | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
it is not about widening participation, it is about fair | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
access. There has been a 50% increase in the amount of students | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
choosing to stay at home rather than go to universities that they would | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
love to go to. What does that really mean? Usually you stay at home at | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
the nearest university to you in deprived constituencies. It is | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
likely that university is a modern university even though you may have | :40:02. | :40:04. | |
got those three aims to become want to become and do medicine at a more | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
teaching, research intensive university. That is what the debate | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
is about and that is why his own impact assessment says there will be | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
a disproportionate effect on students from the M E background. I | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
say to the Minister, does that matter? He can't in one breath come | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
to the house and rightly say the statements he has said about | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
unconscious bias and then in the other hand change the context of | :40:35. | :40:42. | |
those students from poorer backgrounds and this proportionate | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
league affect them. For mature students this will have a great | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
impact. That is why I'm surprised they are moving forward with the | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
changes in the they are. We have a basis of consensus across the house, | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
we did a few years ago, that the state, universities and the student | :41:03. | :41:04. | |
make a contribution to their education. But this settlement | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
effectively is doing is withdrawing the state even further than after | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
the 2010 Parliament and actually landing the debt entirely on the | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
student and when he says there was no alternative, the alternative is | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
actually to go to the universities themselves who per student, the | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
funding has gone from ?22,000 to ?28,000. There was funding | :41:32. | :41:40. | |
available, despite the fact on his figures, 45% of those students will | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
not be able to repay their loans. It will have a disproportionate effect | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
on poorer students. Despite the fact the Minister is not a bad guy, this | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
is a mistake you will regret. I welcome the fact this debate is | :41:53. | :42:10. | |
being held in this chamber. I would also like to refer to my own | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
situation because I feel most strongly that it is right for us on | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
the side of the bench to dispel the myth coming from the opposition side | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
that students in a situation similar to me, to my background will not be | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
able to go to university by these changes and I say that someone who | :42:29. | :42:31. | |
has taken out loans myself in to get me through my fashion or training. | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
By way of further illustration I failed my 12 plus when I was at | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
school. I was advised by my teachers not to waste my time doing A-levels | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
but I'm glad I ignored that advice. I went off to sixth form College and | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
was fortunate enough to study at university. Whereas my parents | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
background was by no means one where money was there available to us, I | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
just miss out on a maintenance grant so I understood straightaway how | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
important it was to be able to work through your university to fund | :43:08. | :43:13. | |
yourself and work hard as a result. As a result they worked through my | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
Christmas, my Easter, summer and during term time at Durham as well. | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
Thereafter, when studying in London to go through bar school, I had to | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
take out loans and work outside of my course not just to cover my | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
maintenance but to cover my fees in addition. I therefore took out tens | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
of thousands of pounds in debt with no earnings threshold on repayment. | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
This was incredibly daunting that it made me determined to succeed in | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
order to pay those loans back. Working around my study with heart | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
in addition but it gave me valuable experience about the world of work. | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
-- was hard. To be told that working outside of your degree makes it | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
impossible to do your degree, I find it an incredible concept and one | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
that did not work for me. 20 years on I regard the loans I took out to | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
be the best form of investment paper made in myself. I go round schools | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
in my constituency telling students there to chase their dreams and not | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
be put off putting -- going to university. It is the most | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
incredible investment some one can make in themselves. I am afraid | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
whilst I find the comments made on the benches opposite well-meaning, I | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
find it incredibly patronising in the extreme to be told that the loan | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
system will put students in a similar situation to my own. Young | :44:41. | :44:48. | |
people chasing their own dreams. Those two have aspirations and self | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
belief will make it a target to repay loans and they will use the | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
degree to enjoy levels of success in their careers which university will | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
afford them. In an ideal situation, this country could afford to fund 's | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
university students for the maintenance but in this country as | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
successive governments have moved towards, we have adopted a model | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
whereby we allow all those who go to university to go there. Record | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
numbers from disadvantaged backgrounds, backgrounds similar to | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
my own is are going to university. I won't give way because of time. Most | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
students understand we are moving towards a loan system and are | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
comfortable with that because they do not want bleeding hearts, they | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
want a job at the end of their degree. By balancing the books they | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
make it more likely they will have a job, security and success, they will | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
be able to pay their loans back and able to enjoy the fruits of their | :45:44. | :45:51. | |
own labour. I would beg the house to send a message that university is | :45:52. | :45:52. | |
available to Warner matter your major reversal of Government policy | :45:53. | :46:29. | |
and it is being taken without any mandate. | :46:30. | :46:49. | |
I would urge members opposite... I will happily give way now. | :46:50. | :47:31. | |
Conservative ministers said our proposals help to encourage people | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
from poorer backgrounds because of the higher education maintenance | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
grants. That crucial commitment is one of the seasons we commend these | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
proposals to the house, and reflecting on their approach into in | :47:43. | :47:49. | |
2012, a conservative minister, the maintenance grant and support for | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
bursaries are going up. That is why we have record weights of | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
applications to university. In opposition, in government, year | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
after year, Conservative ministers, Conservative shadow ministers | :48:04. | :48:05. | |
rightly making the case for maintenance grants and suddenly this | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
has been thrown into reverse by the Chancellor in the July budget | :48:09. | :48:16. | |
without proper consideration of this impact. We are talking about the | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
poorest students and we haven't seen assessments behind the July | :48:24. | :48:32. | |
decision. This is extremely worrying and members opposite should pay | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
regard to this because it to the government's own assessment on | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
participation from low income households, and once there are | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
limits. On gender it expects a decrease in female participation, an | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
aged says there is a risk of participation of older students, and | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
on ethnicity, it says the same. On religion it says there will be a | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
declining participation of some Muslim students. Real impact on real | :49:05. | :49:10. | |
people and it is confirmed by those affected. A survey of students in | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
receipt of maintenance grants said that 35% of them said they would not | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
have gone to university without a grant. A new survey by populace | :49:21. | :49:28. | |
third parents from low income backgrounds says 43% of those | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
believed children will be discouraged from going to university | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
without a grant. Evidence from the Institute of education, for every | :49:37. | :49:45. | |
1000 pound grant, there is an increase in participation from lower | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
income families. The irony is the government has set ambitious | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
objectives for widening participation. The problem is this | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
policy will stop it. I urge members opposite is to vote | :50:01. | :52:10. | |
face the fact that in China there are more people with doctors coming | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
out as many as we have as people with degrees. It is absolutely | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
essential to increase the novels of people going to university. Let's | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
bear in mind the words of the Robbins report, University education | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
should be available to all. I fear if the motion set before us today | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
were passed, there would be a cap on university numbers and that is | :52:34. | :52:36. | |
really not what we want. This would be a cap on aspiration limiting | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
student numbers. Bad for social mobility and our economy. I ask the | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
members opposite what are they offering? Cuts elsewhere, taxes | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
elsewhere? Or are they offering caps? I've been listening hard to | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
the members opposite that once again from those benches answers, there | :52:58. | :53:09. | |
none. A very timely debate on an important issue. To statements | :53:10. | :53:19. | |
struck me. The first that came from a minister who said it was an | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
important deficit reduction measure and the other when the Minister said | :53:24. | :53:31. | |
all the students he knew said they were comfortable with the level of | :53:32. | :53:40. | |
borrowing when they left university. The government wants to promote the | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
idea of a shareholding tomography, increase is social mobility and all | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
the other points to which they pay praise, doesn't realise how anyone | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
in the foreseeable future will ever be able to afford a mortgage when | :53:53. | :54:00. | |
they are carrying with them ?53,500 of debt. He has done nothing to | :54:01. | :54:08. | |
contradict the figures they have an unhappy knack of being right about | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
these things. It does seem to be a strange sort of accounting that says | :54:14. | :54:23. | |
we have a student loan book, we know 45% of it should be written off but | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
we can't write it off. We know it is effective for one reason or another, | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
interest not paid or no likelihood for it being repaid and yet no | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
action is taken to write that off. Similarly, we are now going to | :54:39. | :54:49. | |
increase that by 2 billion. You write 45%, you know it won't get | :54:50. | :54:58. | |
repaid, it is a great exercise in Dudu accounting promoted by the | :54:59. | :55:06. | |
Treasury. The Minister for universities accept it when he knows | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
full well there is no real case on those grounds at all. It is bad for | :55:12. | :55:21. | |
social mobility, it is bad for fairness and it will leave students | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
with an enormous burden of debt. ?53,000 a year, how can anyone think | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
it is a sensible proposition to put two youngsters today when we needn't | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
do it. The government won't get the money back anyway. It beggars | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
belief. I urge the government to think again and I am pleased we are | :55:40. | :55:41. | |
dividing on whether their friends aspire to go | :55:42. | :56:20. | |
to university. That was what I think was a very important part of the | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
conversation I had with them. The arguments that we hear from the | :56:25. | :56:31. | |
opposition about loans, it is like a recycled debate from what we heard a | :56:32. | :56:37. | |
few years ago, young people and students are becoming much more | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
attuned to understand the progressive nature of the loan | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
system that we have introduced, that the low-income graduates will not | :56:47. | :56:54. | |
have to pay back the loans until they get over a certain income | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
threshold, and as the Universities Minister rightly pointed out in his | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
remarks, this is a choice that the Government has made to put our | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
higher education system onto a sustainable footing. It is a choice | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
the Government has taken to design a progressive loan system in order to | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
enable students of whatever background to aspire to go to | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
university. As other honourable members pointed out, the system that | :57:24. | :57:29. | |
has been designed by the Government introduces loans for part-time | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
students for maintenance for the first time, which will have a | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
considerable ulcerative impact on social mobility, introducing | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
maintenance loans for MA Bill and postgraduates again, having a direct | :57:42. | :57:44. | |
impact on different ways of accessing higher education. To hear | :57:45. | :57:51. | |
the arguments from the opposition is a bit like a Groundhog Day. No | :57:52. | :58:08. | |
alternatives have been posited. All of us in this House should be | :58:09. | :58:15. | |
working towards social inclusion. The narrative on the other side of | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
the House is tailored to specifically protrude people from | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
applying to go on to further education. Isn't it time to just | :58:25. | :58:26. | |
explain what my honourable friend is saying? He makes a powerful point | :58:27. | :58:33. | |
and I was very struck by speaking to these students that what we needed | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
to do was educate them about the realities of diving into higher | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
education, whether that is better information about courses they might | :58:42. | :58:42. | |
be able to do, what it means to take | :58:43. | :58:59. | |
out a student loan, because, as the honourable member says, there is a | :59:00. | :59:01. | |
lot of propaganda out there about being saddled with debt. There needs | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
to be more education about what that means in practice. Does he agree | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
with me that young people these days are getting much more savvy about | :59:08. | :59:09. | |
the courses they want to take and whether there is good engagement at | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
the University with employability guidance and that kind of thing? | :59:13. | :59:18. | |
Again, that has been one of the core benefits of the reforms that were | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
introduced in the previous parliament and being developed now, | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
encouraging raising the quality of courses in higher education, making | :59:27. | :59:29. | |
students much more discriminating about what it is they want to get | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
out of their higher education, and greater understanding about, as the | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
Universities Minister pointed out, what economists dryly recalled the | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
returns -- dryly call the returns to our higher education. We are seeing | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
huge opportunities in the graduate market, more graduates getting | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
high-quality jobs, we are seeing more people taking those | :59:55. | :59:56. | |
opportunities that are out there, so I think the system that has been | :59:57. | :00:05. | |
devised is progressive, it won't be, the evidence is that the loans | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
system has not had that kind of detrimental impact on access which | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
honourable members were warning about a few years ago. It is another | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
one of those Groundhog Day recycled scare stories, it simply isn't | :00:20. | :00:25. | |
happening. We are seeing more people from disadvantaged backgrounds get | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
into university, and I think it would be very much a backward step | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
to accept the motion put forward by the opposition, which gives no | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
credible alternative to the plan put forward by the Government, but runs | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
away from the difficult choices that this Government has made to get our | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
higher education system on a sustainable footing, and I urge the | :00:47. | :00:48. | |
House to reject the motion presented by the opposition. I am privileged | :00:49. | :00:56. | |
to represent a university constituency, Cardiff Central, which | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
has one of the highest proportions, not quite the highest, student of | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
any constituency in the UK. Tens of thousands of students live and study | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
in Cardiff Central, many from Wales but many are from England, and so | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
day, unlike their Welsh beers, will be badly affected by this proposal | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
to scrap student maintenance grants. Because, of course, the Labour | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
Government in Wales not only believes in aspiration and | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
protecting students from crippling levels of | :01:26. | :01:38. | |
debt, it actually puts its money where its mouth is. Today in my | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
constituency we have Welsh students sitting next to English student in | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
the same lecture on the same course at the same university, living in | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
the same accommodation, but thanks to the benches opposite and to the | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
Liberal Democrats, they are not there any more, the Welsh student | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
has paid one third of the annual tuition fees that an English student | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
pays. It is not just tuition fees were the Labour Government in Wales | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
has supported students. The coalition Government abolished | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
educational maintenance allowance, and the Welsh Labour Government kept | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
it. The Labour Government in Wales are not abolishing student | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
maintenance grants nor NHS bursaries for nurses and midwives studying in | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
Wales. Unlike the party opposite we believe in investing in future | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
generations. The Government is claiming that scrapping grants went | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
to prevent access to university but the most disadvantaged students, but | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
how do they know? They haven't even asked them. No consultation of | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
students, non-with parents, not with higher education. What has the party | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
opposite got against young people? They have trebled tuition fees, | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
abolished DMA, they won't allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote and are | :02:40. | :02:48. | |
happy to lecture everyone on balancing the books and reducing | :02:49. | :02:50. | |
debt whilst at the same time their policies inflict crippling levels of | :02:51. | :02:52. | |
debt on students. Add to that the Chancellor's plans to end housing | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
benefit for anyone under 21. I heard speeches last week in committee and | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
again today about how various Conservative MPs have worked their | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
way through university, so if they did it, why shouldn't today's | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
students? But they already do, and now some of them went even be | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
earning the increased National Minimum Wage because they have | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
excluded anyone under 25 from it. The impact of this policy will be to | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
prevent young people from going to university, from learning, gaining | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
independence, a are equipping themselves with the knowledge and | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
skills to be successful in the jobs market and fulfilling their true | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
potential. I want to conclude by talking about Kate Delaney, Vice | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
President of welfare at Cardiff University. She had her ear may | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
abolished, paid for her birthday is to get to sixth form College, | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
qualified for a maintenance grant, and would not have been able to go | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
to university without it. She tells me that maintenance grant gave her a | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
voice to represent 30,000 students at Cardiff University, and the | :03:54. | :04:01. | |
benches opposite are taking it away. I received full maintenance grant | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
when I was at university, and the impact of that wasn't just the money | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
in my bank account, it was also the feeling of confidence and freedom | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
that I could choose the degree that I wanted at the University of first | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
Choice, and I think that is a really important point that hasn't been | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
covered in this debate. When I graduated, I didn't have ?53,000 | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
worth of debt, which is what the poorest 40% of students are going to | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
graduate with. I remind honourable members opposite that we are talking | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
about the poorest students from the poorest backgrounds in our country, | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
these are the sons and daughters of my honourable friend. None | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
mentioned, the dinner ladies, the bus tried this -- that my honourable | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
friend for Tottenham mentioned, the bus drivers, dinner ladies. Let's | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
not forget the reality of the background of these students. I say | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
to the Minister and other honourable members, particularly those | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
chuntering from seeded positions, that this is not scaremongering but | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
a serious debate, there it goes again, this is a serious debate | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
about what the impact of these proposals will be on the poorest | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
constituents that we represent. That is a debate that should be taken | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
seriously by the Minister and honourable members on the | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
Conservative benches. This is not just about participation. This is | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
also about fair access. This is also about which university you choose to | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
go to, if you have that first Choice. Some of my constituents in | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
Wolverhampton might not choose to apply for Oxford and Cambridge, or | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
even the University of Sussex, because it is too far away and would | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
be too expensive. So this is also about the choices that the poorest | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
children will now have to make given the level of debt they will face. I | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
thank the honourable ladybug giving way. She talks about the sons and | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
daughters of those poorer professions, dinner ladies etc. Why | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
is it the case that those people cannot take out loans, make a great | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
success of themselves, pay them back? Why are they different? They | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
should not be different, they are special people. These people but we | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
represent have the same ambitions and aspirations, and the honourable | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
members opposite should not cast aspersions about what members on | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
this side think. They will be graduating with ?53,000 of student | :06:40. | :06:47. | |
debt which means, and I hope they will still go to university, by the | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
way, I hope it doesn't affect participation, but I fear that it | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
will affect the choices that they make, and we will all be poorer for | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
it because the talent won't come through as a result of that. I said | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
to be honourable gentlemen, this is part of a wider pattern of this | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
Government. Intergenerational inequality is worsening in this | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
country. I came into politics precisely because I want to live in | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
a country where the background and income of your parents should not | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
determine how well you do in life, whether you fulfil your potential. | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
But I said to be honourable gentlemen, this is getting worse, | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
the intergenerational foundation has said that the younger generation, | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
they call them the packhorse generation because this Government | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
is burdening them with more and more debt, debt they are facing more in | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
security in the workplace, they are basing higher housing costs, some | :07:46. | :07:57. | |
have given up hope of ever owning their own home because we are not | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
building enough homes, and that is the case for governments preceding | :08:01. | :08:02. | |
this Government as well, to be fair. This packhorse generation is taking | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
on huge levels of debt and facing a more insecure pewter, and that is | :08:06. | :08:07. | |
why I would hope that the Government will think again. Intergenerational | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
fairness and intergenerational inequality is a growing problem we | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
face. I do understand we have an increasing burden on the current | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
generation largely because of the enormous burden of debt the | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
Government inherited, but does she agree with me that it is also the | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
young people of this current generation who will not be going to | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
university who will be otherwise expected to pay for those who had | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
the benefit of doing so? Of course, we had that debate in the previous | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
parliament and parliament 's previous to that. But we are talking | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
about the very poorest students and their parents do not have a penny to | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
give to them in support. They are going to be graduating with a huge | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
level of debt. I said this again to the Government, what we have seen | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
since the re-election, the election of this Tory majority Government and | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
the Government before, is that the younger generation have been hit | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
with firstly, for example, the removal of the education maintenance | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
allowance, trebling of tuition fees and now, for the poorest students, | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
no longer will they have grants. I say to the Minister, this Government | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
needs to think really carefully about intergenerational inequality. | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
And the social contract between young people and the state. Because | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
if the state no longer supports the aspirations and opportunities of the | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
poorest students, that social contract will break down and we will | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
all be poorer for it. Madam Deputy Speaker, much of what I would have | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
said has been covered by these benches. Taking an overview of it, | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
it strikes me that we're going back to the 1980s, because this | :09:52. | :09:59. | |
Government, like all Conservative governments, always pick up where | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
they left off, so there is an agenda here and they are using the deficit | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
as an excuse, not a reason, an excuse to take the country | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
backwards. Much has been made in relation to the 3 million apprentice | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
is. Not much has been said about cuts to further education today. | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
Some further education colleges may close. So we can talk about the 3 | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
million apprenticeships that the Government talks about, you can see | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
it is under threat because students will not be able to get those | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
facilities that they want to get. But picking up the Minister on the | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
point about his manifesto, he said in his manifesto, we will give them | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
the benefit of the doubt, but what he didn't say was that there would | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
be cuts to the grants, University grants, and they didn't said there | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
would be cuts to bursaries, either. That is the point that ministers | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
seemed to skate over when he made his speech. Casting our minds back | :10:58. | :11:05. | |
ten years ago under the Labour Government we capped fees at ?3000, | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
we reintroduced maintenance grants, and the third element was indeed | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
bursaries from universities. Will he agreed that with this direction of | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
travel we should look very carefully and ask the Minister to make clear | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
that bursaries are not the next target? I agree wholeheartedly with | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
what might honourable friend has said. We had a debate last week | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
talking about bursaries regarding nurses. We know there is a shortage | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
of nurses in the National Health Service. We will not do very much to | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
encourage young people to take up the nursing profession and I think | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
there is a danger here that we are going to create what we called the | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
Thatcher generation, the lost generation, under this Government. | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
Looking at the West Midlands again, this is going to affect the economy | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
of the West Midlands, whether the Government accepts that or not, as | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
they talk about the West Midlands powerhouse. The West Midlands | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
powerhouse will rely on skilled Labour, highly skilled Labour. The | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
Government has boasted about Jaguar Land Rover as one of the successes | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
of this Government. I seem to remember that it was a Labour | :12:16. | :12:24. | |
Government that encouraged Tater to invest in Land Rover. When you start | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
to look at the impact of these measures of this Government you can | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
see a lost generation but more importantly longer term it will | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
affect the British economy. I will not give way. I see a situation | :12:39. | :12:49. | |
where you ration education. In 1997 we had to put that right. I | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
represent two of the finest universities in this country, if not | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
the world, worldwide renown. That can have an impact locally and | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
particularly in this country in taking students and encouraging | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
students to study the different disciplines. Coming back to further | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
education, this will have a major impact on further education and will | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
certainly affect Coventry's economy, more importantly be West Midlands | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
economy and more importantly the national economy. It says it all | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
about the policy of the Government we are debating this afternoon that | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
so few of their backbenchers have turned up to read the poor script | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
they have been given by the whips. It says everything about the way | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
this Government conducts itself that instead of having a proper debate on | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
the floor of this House with a full vote involving all members, they | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
sought to have a debate down the corridor and up the stairs, hoping | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
nobody would notice, in a committee nobody has ever heard of. I think he | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
made a similar point when he had his adjournment debate a number of weeks | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
ago with student nurses' bursaries. Is he as concerned as I am that this | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
is becoming a device for the Government to speak through | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
controversial legislation without debate, and that it goes in contrast | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
to comments made by the Leader of the House on December ten 2015 on | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
this issue when he indicated there would be a debate on the floor of | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
this House? I wholeheartedly agree, their cowardice is treating this | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
House with disdain, and the students we are sent here to represent. In | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
spite of what the Minister said, there is no mention in the manifesto | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
of cutting student grants. In fact, we would find Lord Lucan before we | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
fight any reference to cutting student grants in their manifesto. | :14:40. | :14:47. | |
They cannot even hide behind any sort of democratic mandate. In spite | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
of the argument I had with previous Labour governments as a student, | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
including my right honourable friend the member the problem, even with | :14:56. | :14:57. | |
landslide majorities there was always a full debate and always a | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
vote in this House when they were abolishing student grants or, more | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
wisely, reintroducing grants towards the end after the introduction of | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
top-up fees. But the fact is this afternoon half a million students | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
from the poorest backgrounds will be in practice upon by these proposals. | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
At my local university, the University of East London, it | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
equates to around ?30 million of financial support for students gone. | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
At my mater, the University of Kaymer it, more like 9 million. One | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
thing we know about the higher education sector is not only is | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
opportunity unevenly distributed but so is financial support and it is | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
unfair that students from poorer backgrounds will pave a postcode | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
lottery when it comes to determine how much nonrepayable support they | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
receive. The very existence of student grants was one as a result | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
of hard-fought negotiations not just on behalf of student leaders who | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
argued that if we were going to ask people to make a greater | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
contribution it was only fair that the poorest should receive a | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
nonrepayable contribution, but how must those Conservative members and | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
a few remaining Liberal Democrat MPs feel about the fact that even under | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
the coalition Government, as the higher education Minister justified | :16:15. | :16:16. | |
the coupling of these, they were told not to worry because we have | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
the national scholarship programme, the student grant, and | :16:20. | :16:45. | |
the threshold of 21,000 going up by information? What has happened | :16:46. | :16:46. | |
since? The scholarship programme abandoned, the threshold frozen at | :16:47. | :16:48. | |
?21,000, and now we see the abolition of student grants. You | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
cannot trust a word that these people say, particularly when it | :16:52. | :16:53. | |
comes to fair access to higher education for the most is an | :16:54. | :16:55. | |
absolute disgrace. I'm proud of what the it is an absolute disgrace. I'm | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
proud of what the last Labour a beneficiary of it, from the work | :16:59. | :17:00. | |
done in schools to the opportunities of expanded places to widen the | :17:01. | :17:02. | |
opportunities for people from working class background, and I was | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
a beneficiary of it, from the work done in schools to the opportunities | :17:06. | :17:13. | |
of expanded would he accept that he and others who said five years ago | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
that the introduction of increased bees would lead to a reduction in | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
those from poorer backgrounds going to university were wrong? They were | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
wrong then and we he is doubtless equally proud of the fact the Labour | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
Government said it wouldn't introduce tuition fees then did, | :17:30. | :17:31. | |
said it wouldn't introduce tuition fees then did. Would he accept that | :17:32. | :17:33. | |
he and others who said five years ago that the introduction of | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
increased bees would lead to a reduction in those from poorer | :17:37. | :17:38. | |
backgrounds going to university were wrong? They were wrong then and we | :17:39. | :17:46. | |
believe they are wrong so much has been talked about this afternoon in | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
terms of participation numbers, I'm certainly not going to make | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
prophecies of doom about what will happen to participation, but there | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
are a few facts to back in mind. Firstly, the issue of equity, how | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
can it be justified that students from the poorest background graduate | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
with the largest debt? How can it be fair but under this repayment | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
mechanism the wealthiest graduates will go on to the most successful | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
jobs but pay less over the course of their working career than people | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
from middle and lower incomes? That cannot be justified as fair. And we | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
should take seriously the evidence from the Institute for Fiscal | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
Studies in 2014 that a ?1000 increase in the maintenance grant | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
led to a 3.95% increase in participation. Removing the grant | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
does not mean participation will plummet, but I think there is a risk | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
that participation will suffer, and there is a huge amount of | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
complacency from this Government about the impact of higher tuition | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
fees on applications to part-time route and from the chore | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
backgrounds, too. It doesn't have to be this way. The pet what the Labour | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
Government in Wales has done, they haven't chosen to abolish student | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
grants, they have kept them in place. If they want to talk about | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
hard choices, then how they are going to let the poorest students -- | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
look the poorest students in the eye and explain how the Government | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
believe EA to the tax burden on the wealthiest while making the poorest | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
paid the cost of their education? A 75% contribution to the cost of | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
higher education is too far and there is not a single point in their | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
manifesto that they can point to to justify this outrageous attack on | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
the poorest students. We have still got five members who want to catch | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
my eye. Take no interventions and we will get everybody in. With | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
interventions we will have to drop people off the list. Thank you. I | :19:38. | :19:44. | |
would like to thank the Labour members for bringing this debate. | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
The SNP believes in the principle of free education and stand against in | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
solidarity with student in England the principle of scrapping grants. I | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
was going to say more but I will keep it as brief as I can. I want to | :19:59. | :20:05. | |
mention myself, other members have mentioned their situation as MPs. My | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
situation, I moved away from home in 2000 to go to the University of | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
Aberdeen, graduated in 2004 having taken out a student loan. I only | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
started paying back to anything other did decree on coming into this | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
place in May. I pay back ?400 a month on my student loan, that is my | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
obligation that I do that. But if I was coming out with a debt of | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
?53,000 from university, assuming I could start paying that back right | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
away at ?400 a month, it would take me 11 years. It would take 11 years | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
in a very well paying job to pay that back. The expectation some | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
people may not pay that loan debt back at all makes a mockery of the | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
process, if you are not even expected to pay yet back what is the | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
point of getting the loan in the first base? It is ludicrous! | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
Bringing up a generation that expects to be in debt, anything that | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
we should guard against in society. In Scotland we try our hardest try | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
and make sure that education remains free and grants are available but | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
this Government is putting our budget under increasing pressure by | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
the actions it is taking here. We don't know, because they haven't | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
told us, what the impact on the Scottish budget will be from the | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
decisions taken here today, it has been designated as EVEL but will | :21:27. | :21:37. | |
clearly impact students studying in Scotland. What consultation has | :21:38. | :21:46. | |
there been with higher education in my constituency? But conversations | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
has he had... He's not even paying attention, he is chewing his pen! | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
What conversations had he had with my colleagues in Scotland about | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
this? What impact will it have on people in larger families, and | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
Muslim students? The honourable member raised this before about | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
Muslim students who cannot take out loans. Other people will not want to | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
take out loans for other reasons. My colleague has raised cuts to the | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
disabled student allowance. What impact will this added burden have | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
on them as well? Members on the other side have talked about, what | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
about people but don't go to university, how do they benefit from | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
this? They benefit from the common good. Glasgow Caledonian University | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
is a university for the common good. People in Scotland know that the | :22:37. | :22:38. | |
graduates will become the doctors who treat them in hospital, the Lord | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
Attenborough present them, the qualified people who pay back in | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
taxation -- the lawyers who represent them. I'm grateful to be | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
able to speak in this debate today, and have been urged to do so by many | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
student in my constituency. It is a matter of great interest to the | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
general public and the Government's behaviour over this issue has been | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
noticed by them even if this Government remains in denial. The | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
fact remains that the Chancellor's change from maintenance grants to a | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
loan may dissuade students from modest backgrounds from going to | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
university, that is a fact, and it may nonetheless result in large sums | :23:19. | :23:20. | |
never being paid back to the treachery, which | :23:21. | :23:37. | |
hasn't been addressed. Many members have raised that issue, and it has | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
not been addressed, that a lot of this money will not go back to the | :23:41. | :23:42. | |
Treasury because of graduates going into what the Prime Minister | :23:43. | :23:44. | |
referred to last week as menial Labour jobs. Even with maintenance | :23:45. | :23:46. | |
grants which supports students from the poorest backgrounds through | :23:47. | :23:48. | |
university, the system remains stacked against working-class | :23:49. | :23:49. | |
students. Students from wealthy backgrounds, according to the | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
education charity do Sutton Trust, are ten times more likely to receive | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
a place at university than those from poorer backgrounds. The | :23:58. | :24:05. | |
Government has consulted on freezing the current student loan repayment | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
threshold at ?21,000 for five years. Martin Lewis from Money-saving | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
Expert has pointed out only 5% of responses to the consultation were | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
in favour, with 84% being against, and has written to the Prime | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
Minister to ask why the Government has pushed ahead regardless with | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
increasing the amount our students have to pay on their current student | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
loans. Martin Lewis was, in 2011, appointed head of the independent | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
gas pours on student finance information. Government ministers | :24:39. | :24:40. | |
told him unambiguously that from April 2017 | :24:41. | :24:58. | |
the ?21,000 repayment threshold would rise annually with average | :24:59. | :25:00. | |
earnings, and the decision to backtrack on this is hugely | :25:01. | :25:02. | |
damaging. It means many lower and middle earning graduates will pay | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
thousands more over the life of their loans. Martin Lewis states | :25:06. | :25:07. | |
this issue is as much moral as legal. This retrospective change | :25:08. | :25:09. | |
destroys trust in the student finance system and, perhaps more | :25:10. | :25:11. | |
widely, in the political system as a whole. This Government seems | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
remarkably relaxed about our poorest students graduating with ?53,000 of | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
debt before they have even started work. What guarantee will they give | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
that they would move the goalposts Bob repayment of this loan as well? | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
There is a huge body of evidence to support student maintenance grants, | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
I don't have time to go into them all but the universities and | :25:36. | :25:37. | |
colleges union are against them, they said they are crucial for | :25:38. | :25:45. | |
engaging students from poorer backgrounds who are already daunted | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
by the cripplingly high debt. They said that getting rid of it will be | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
a disincentive to participation. I too have a constituency with the | :25:57. | :26:03. | |
large and above students, just over 19,000 from the three fantastic | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
universities in Leeds. I have three minutes to speak, which equates to | :26:10. | :26:16. | |
0.0095 per second per student in what is a hugely important debate. | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
The fact that the Government have proceeded with this, considering the | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
importance, three second legislation without any proper debate is an | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
absolute disgrace. Why have we also not had public consultation on these | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
major changes? They were announced in summer, there has been six months | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
since then and no consultation with the higher education sector, no | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
consultation with universities, no consultation with student unions. It | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
is also hugely concerning that the Government only conducted the | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
quality impact assessment after the National union of students issued | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
legal proceedings. If that is not suggesting a Government that knows | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
it is doing something unacceptable and have something to hide, I don't | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
know what does. The quality impact assessment itself explicitly says | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
that the changes present a risk to the participation of students from | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
poorer backgrounds, mature students, BME students, disabled students and | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
Muslim students. Despite being forced to accept these groups will | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
be affected, has the Minister done anything to deal with that and | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
indeed to suggest mitigating the impact? The answer to that, I'm | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
afraid, is no. I haven't got time to go through the facts, and some have | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
gone forward today, some haven't, but this clearly will have a | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
detrimental and unfair impact on students from poorer backgrounds, | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
students that clearly we all want to encourage to go to university. And | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
at the same time as this is happening the Government is also | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
freezing the repayment threshold at 21,000, which the House of Commons | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
library say what have, I quote, a proportionally larger impact on | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
repayments by graduates with lower lifetime earnings. Martin Lewis has | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
already been mentioned, he of course was tasked with selling the new | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
system to the public, and he himself is looking into the judicial review | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
into the repayment threshold being frozen. You can scarcely make it up. | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
The reality, whether they wish to accept it or not, is that the | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
evidence shows that this will hit students on lower incomes and will | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
discourage people from going to university. The Government must now | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
today announced a proper debate, a proper vote on this, in the House. | :28:43. | :28:44. | |
We will settle for nothing less. I went to Aberdeen University in | :28:45. | :28:55. | |
1977. First member of my extended family to do so and I was able to do | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
so because Jewish and was free and I got a full maintenance grant. If it | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
wasn't for the Wilson government, and would not have had the | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
opportunity I had in my life. What really sticks in my throat is that | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
those who have climbed that ladder of opportunity themselves are now | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
determined to kick it away. I think it is a disgrace. We should be in no | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
doubt that there would be layers of consequences to these decisions. On | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
an individual level, it will result in a life less fulfilled, | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
opportunities foregone. On a community level, people say a | :29:37. | :29:45. | |
pathway of poverty -- out of poverty is being barricaded in front of | :29:46. | :29:54. | |
them. On a national level, how many doctors, architects, lawyers are we | :29:55. | :30:04. | |
going to see -- not going to see emerge because of this? The real | :30:05. | :30:14. | |
question is this, is it fair if somebody from a poor background | :30:15. | :30:21. | |
should have to take out more debt to get the same opportunities that | :30:22. | :30:23. | |
their counterpart in well off families? We should not tolerate | :30:24. | :30:32. | |
this. The government seems to labour under the misapprehension that | :30:33. | :30:34. | |
students are all rich and will benefit so much it is OK to charge | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
what they want. That is not the case. A small minority do extremely | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
well and become rich. And if you want them to pay, you should have a | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
progressive taxation system where people pay more when they reach | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
those high wages but instead, this government is cutting taxes for the | :30:56. | :30:58. | |
highest earners in our community. And nowhere is this more thrown into | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
sharp relief than with nurses and midwives. The abolition of grants | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
for nurses and midwives there is going to penalised not just people | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
who want to contribute to our NHS, it will undermine our NHS itself. | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
Not for the first time, I am so pleased that in Scotland we have the | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
Scottish Government which stands between the young people in that | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
country and the malcontent of this government. We will not be | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
abolishing grants for nurses or midwives, we will maintain | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
maintenance grants and most of all we will keep tuition free and we | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
will make sure we will not stand as things are in this country. If ever | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
there was a case for this not applying, it is in this debate. I | :31:48. | :31:57. | |
have 2000 consist ruins,... And all my election in May, I had spent all | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
my adult life in universities, from recipient of a full grant to | :32:03. | :32:09. | |
teaching at Kingston until my election. I have also taught at | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
redbrick. All of these categories of university, all seats of learning in | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
this country, student bodies will be poorer as a result of the abolition | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
of grants. Both socially, culturally and financially. The students we are | :32:25. | :32:36. | |
talking about are not meal from the Young ones, they are people like my | :32:37. | :32:46. | |
constituents, student union president Josh got art, who told me | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
he is the first person in his family to go to university. He would not | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
have done this without a maintenance grant. He wants to see that the | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
students of the future all have the chance to spoke to university. It is | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
not just the NUS, it is also the Sutton Trust who have condemned | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
these changes for narrowing the talent pool of who was going to be | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
able to participate from higher education in the future. I think the | :33:15. | :33:22. | |
students I taught at Kingston before the changes, they seem to often be | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
coming in between their burger shifting Amax flipping shifts. How | :33:26. | :33:35. | |
is saddling young people with ?53,000 of debt, had they reconcile | :33:36. | :33:43. | |
with that? We heard the words of Martin Lewis who was tasked with | :33:44. | :33:51. | |
leading the task force in 2011, he says the regulator would not allow | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
any commercial lender to make a change to its terms in this way. It | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
is surely bad governments. It is a case of double standards here. These | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
are people who signed up, even after they signed the loan agreement, they | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
are seeing the goalposts move. There is a lot of explaining to do by the | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
Minister. Where was this on page 35? What will be transitional | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
arrangements Pete? What happened to the review promised in 2014 for | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
Muslim students who want Cheri compliant finance? -- Cheri. It is | :34:25. | :34:34. | |
only because our side has forced this debate that we are discussing | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
it at all. They wanted to shunt it through their new favourite toy, the | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
statutory instrument. It shouldn't be students plugging... The nurses, | :34:45. | :34:54. | |
NHS bursary is, the removal of TMA, if they are making a shortfall, it | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
should not be students who take that burden. We have had a lively debate | :34:59. | :35:07. | |
with contributions from 17 backbench speakers to my calculation and it | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
has been extremely interesting. I went mentioned them because time is | :35:14. | :35:20. | |
short. I do have some sympathy for the universities minister in all of | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
this. We all know that the decision to scrap maintenance runs for the | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
less well-off students in favour of loans was made by the Chancellor, | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
not by the universities minister. I know he and the Chancellor are old | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
friends, it goes back to the days when they were penniless students | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
together. Having to scrape by on the student grants and Omega Bullington | :35:44. | :35:51. | |
club dinners but I find it hard to believe that the universities | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
minister went to his old friend the Chancellor and said having been | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
appointed as universities minister, I have suddenly decided that we were | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
wrong to have maintenance grants for less well-off students and it would | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
be a great idea for the worse of students to have to have the most | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
debt after they have been in university. I may be wrong about him | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
but he doesn't seem to strike me up until today as a kind of person who | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
would really think that it is right to change the system so that as the | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
British Medical Association points out, medical students from the | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
poorest backgrounds could graduate with ?100,000 of debt. It doesn't | :36:29. | :36:39. | |
really strike me either that he is the kind of person who thinks it is | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
OK to go back on promises made by Tory ministers when the new system | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
was introduced because it was David Willetts who said that the tuition | :36:48. | :36:54. | |
fees increase was progressive when they introduced this proposal | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
precisely because of the higher education maintenance grant. That | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
was the argument that was made and neither does he strike me as the | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
kind of politician who would cynically pursue policies which | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
penalised younger people who are less likely to vote Tory or even | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
less likely to vote at all than others. And despite what he said | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
today about page 35 of the Tory party manifesto, I don't think the | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
universities minister would think it is OK really to carry out this kind | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
of major change of policy direction without explicitly putting it into | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
your party's manifesto so that the public including young people could | :37:35. | :37:37. | |
see what they are voting for or against. Is he really the kind of | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
politician who having done all this would then slink away from debating | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
such a major change openly and properly on the floor of the House | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
of Commons in government time? I may be wrong but I never thought he was | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
that kind of politician. I never thought he was that cynical. I never | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
thought -- think we know we know someone who is that cynical. I give | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
way. I wonder whether he could flip back through his archive and find | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
where in the 1997 manifesto Labour Party had the introduction of | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
student loans in the first place because I can't remember seeing it. | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
He told us how hard he worked himself in his speech and his | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
contribution to the debate and as someone from Cardiff with an accent | :38:29. | :38:36. | |
like he has, he acknowledges the hard-working individual. He knows | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
the general election was fought following that decision being taken | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
and before they were introduced. We all know the Chancellor prefers | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
governing from the shadows and his shameless betrayal of previous | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
promises and the shabby men manner in which this has been handled, | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
Basil the hallmarks of the current Chancellor of the Exchequer. -- | :39:00. | :39:07. | |
bears all the hallmarks. The Chancellor is introducing an | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
opportunity tax. His proposals are an insult on aspiration, an assault | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
on opportunity and those who want to get on in life which is why we | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
oppose them and also why the Welsh government under Labour First | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
Minister is keeping maintenance grants. By the way, for those who | :39:25. | :39:32. | |
say that this only affects England, they should think again. Including | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
Welsh Conservative MPs. There are nearly 9000 English students | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
studying at Cardiff University. Out of 30,000 students. I am sure the | :39:43. | :39:50. | |
shadow minister wouldn't wish to mislead the House. He just said that | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
after the 1997 election tuition fees were not introduced until they had | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
been another general election. It is not true, they were introduced in | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
1998. Having said they wouldn't, they started on the process 12 weeks | :40:04. | :40:10. | |
later. The honourable gentleman is making a point of debate, not a | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
point for the chair. We have very little time. Students who in | :40:14. | :40:24. | |
constituencies like Cardiff North are registered to vote in Wales but | :40:25. | :40:30. | |
subject to the decisions after this debate, even though there local | :40:31. | :40:38. | |
Welsh MPs can have their votes nullified under the evil procedure | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
the government has foisted upon this House. Who will be affected by these | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
measures today? Festival, we know that from the IFF S, the poorest 40% | :40:47. | :40:55. | |
of students going to university in England when I graduate with debts | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
of up to ?53,000 from a three-year course rather than up to 40,000 | :41:00. | :41:07. | |
pounds. This will result from the replacement of maintenance grants. | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
It is not just students going to university in England, it is also | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
students attending universities and registered to vote in Wales. A fact | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
that would be lost to those students in Cardiff for all stop -- Cardiff | :41:18. | :41:33. | |
North. I would be very encouraged if the honourable gentleman would note | :41:34. | :41:44. | |
that there are hundreds of students from Northern Ireland who take up | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
places and are happy to do so in English universities and it is an | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
absolute disgrace that this measure should be deemed exclusively English | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
because it affects my constituents and many parents and students from | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
Northern Ireland. I am happy to acknowledge that. It is not as if | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
this policy will save that much of finances despite claims by the | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
government in the long run. The replacement of maintenance grants by | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
loans will raise debt, according to the IFF S, but will do little to | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
improve government finances in the long run. The truth is the | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
Chancellor is fixing the figures, not the roof. I am sure I would | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
never have gone to university myself had there been no maintenance grant | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
available, let alone being the first of my family and from icon Prince of | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
school to go to university and to go to Oxford. I know there are many in | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
this place for who this is also true. The government must accept | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
that is still the case for many thousands of people, indeed that is | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
why as David Willetts said, maintenance grants were part of the | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
structure when fees were tripled to ?9,000 per annum and the last Tory | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
lead government. This decision is mean in spirit, underhand in its | :43:09. | :43:15. | |
execution and it will be tragic in its consequences for many young | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
people and I urge the House to reject it by supporting our motion. | :43:19. | :43:25. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, a middle-aged man like me needs to approach the | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
subject of student finance with a degree of humility, for I was one of | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
the lucky few who did not have to pay tuition fees. While I did not | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
qualify for anything more than the minimum grant, many of my | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
contemporaries did. But the key fact about university when I was growing | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
up was it was just that, the exclusive preserve of the lucky few. | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
Universities were bastions of privilege, and the nation was poorer | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
for it. As were millions of people whose lives would have been enriched | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
in every sense by a university course. It was Tony Blair, of | :44:02. | :44:09. | |
course, remember him? He first recognised that many more people | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
could benefit from a university education and started us down the | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
road of reforming student finance to widen participation. And it was | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
Gordon Brown, remember him, who asked the noble Lord Browne to | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
suggest further reforms of student finance. And it was Vince cable and | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
the right honourable friend the Sheffield Hallam who bravely impaled | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
themselves and their party in an irresponsible campaign and brought | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
in the system of tuition fees that we had today. At every stage in this | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
journey towards a student finance system that allows anyone with the | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
necessary grades to be offered a university place, we have heard the | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
same howls of outrage, the same predictions of disaster from the | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
same sources. Participation will plummet, they in tone. The poorest | :45:06. | :45:11. | |
will be put off. And just as predictably, at each and every | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
stage, these shroud waivers and doom mongers have been proved wrong, as | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
might honourable friend the South Ribble reminded us. And why have | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
they been proven wrong? Because, as my honourable friend pointed out, | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
individual students observe the benefits that blow to university | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
graduates, look at the repayment terms for student loans and | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
calculate, quite correctly, that they will only have to repay their | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
student loans if they themselves are benefiting from higher wages. My | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
honourable friend for Bexhill said the loans he took out were the best | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
investment he has ever made. My honourable friend for Halesowen | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
talked about the returns to higher education which, interestingly, are | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
even higher in terms of the increase in lifetime earnings for women than | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
for men. So the truth is that student loans are not like ordinary | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
commercial loans, and it is frankly a disgrace that members opposite are | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
willing to mislead would-be students by pretending that they are. A | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
commercial loan is often secured against specific assets which can be | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
seized if you cannot make the repayments. With a student loan, no | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
bailiff is going to knock on your door and take a television if you're | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
low income means you cannot afford to repay it. A commercial loan will | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
charge a rate of interest from the very first day and the poorer you | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
are the higher the interest rate is likely to be. With a student loan | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
the interest rate is held at a lower rate until you start earning over | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
?25,000 a year. The amount you have to repay in any year is limited to | :46:56. | :47:03. | |
9% of your income over ?21,000. A commercial zone, and all of the | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
accumulated interest, will still be hanging around your neck in 40 | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
years' time if you have not managed to pay it off. The balance of a | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
student loan is written off after 30 years. Madam Deputy Speaker, there | :47:16. | :47:24. | |
are two ways to fund university students. You can limit access, | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
undermine the quality of University teaching, and get the general | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
population, most of whom have not benefited from a university | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
education, to foot the bill. You can call it the SNP approach. The | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
alternative is to offer anyone who has the capacity to benefit from a | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
university course the opportunity to do so, and to put in place a system | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
of subsidised student finance which asks those who do go on to benefit | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
to contribute to its cost while protecting those who do not from the | :48:01. | :48:07. | |
need to repay their loans. That is the Conservative approach. It is | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
also the approach of the Liberal Democrats when they were a party of | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
Government. And the approach of the Labour Government under Tony Blair | :48:16. | :48:22. | |
and Gordon Brown. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, one thing is clear at the | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
end of this debate, a party's attitude toward student finance is a | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
leading indicator of its fitness to govern. In opposition, a party will | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
take the irresponsible brute in an attempt to curry favour with the | :48:39. | :48:47. | |
National union of students. In Government, it will suddenly | :48:48. | :48:56. | |
discover... It will suddenly discovered the merits of a | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
sustainable system of student finance that is fair to students and | :49:00. | :49:07. | |
taxpayers alike. Madam Deputy Speaker, if we are ever to see | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
another Labour Government, and on the basis of their current | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
performance it may be a very long time, I confidently predict that it | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
will quietly drop its opposition to the system of student finance, put | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
in place by governments of all parties over 20 years, and that is | :49:24. | :49:33. | |
why... Order, Sir! The Minister called a national organisation voted | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
for by the students of this company, should he withdraw his comments | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
immediately? The honourable gentleman's language was perhaps not | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
exactly what I would have chosen myself as a matter of taste will | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
stop but it is not for me to tell the Minister exactly which words to | :49:56. | :50:02. | |
use. He was not strictly outwith the rules of the House and I'm sure he | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
will now very positively returned to a more tasteful and moderate | :50:09. | :50:19. | |
language. Minister. I feel that was perhaps a little more stinking than | :50:20. | :50:26. | |
I deserved, but I will of course do exactly as you require -- a little | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
more spending. If I may briefly reprise, a party's attitude to | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
student finance is a leading indicator of its fitness to govern. | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
If we are ever to see another Labour Government confidently predict it | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
will drop its obligation to the system of student finance put in | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
place by Labour Government, coalition Government and this | :50:52. | :50:53. | |
Conservative Government and that is why I urge the House to reject the | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
motion. The question is as on the order paper. As many as are of the | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
opinion, say, "aye". To the contrary, "no". Division! Clear the | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
lobby! Border! As many as are of the | :51:09. | :53:44. | |
opinion, say, "aye". To the contrary, "no". Tellers for the | :53:45. | :53:58. | |
ayes, tellers for the noes. Order. Order. The ayes to the right, | :53:59. | :04:40. | |
292. The to the left, 306. -- the noes to the left. The ayes to the | :04:41. | :04:53. | |
right, 292. The noes to the left, 306. The noes have it. The attempt | :04:54. | :05:04. | |
to have it. Unlike! -- the noes have it. We come now to the motion | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
against the education student support Amendment regulations. | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
Order. Student support Amendment regulations. SI 2015, number 1591, | :05:16. | :05:25. | |
which will be taken without debate. I remind the House that is Mr | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
Speaker has certified, this instrument relates exclusively to | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
England and is within devolved legislative competence this motion | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
is a subject to double majority. If a division is called all members of | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
the House are able to vote in the division. Understanding order number | :05:49. | :05:58. | |
83 Q, to annul the SI will be agreed only if of those voting both a | :05:59. | :06:07. | |
majority of all members and a majority of members representing | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
constituencies in England called in support of the motion. At the end of | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
the tellers will report the results. First for the members, secondly for | :06:17. | :06:28. | |
those representing constituencies in England. I think that is clear... | :06:29. | :06:38. | |
The instruction is clear. Actually, members don't really have to do any | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
thinking except to decide whether to vote with the ayes or the noes and | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
everyone can pass through the lobbies. Member to move the motion | :06:48. | :07:03. | |
formerly. Mr Morriston. The question is on the order paper. As many as of | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
that opinion, say aye. Of the contrary know. Davison! -- division. | :07:10. | :10:04. | |
Order. The question is as on the order paper. As many of that opinion | :10:05. | :10:15. | |
say aye. On the contrary, no. Tell us for the noes and the ayes. -- | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
tellers. The ayes to the right, 292. The noes | :10:23. | :24:25. | |
to the left, 303. Of those honourable members representing | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
constituencies in England, the ayes to the right, 203, the noes to the | :24:31. | :24:40. | |
left, 291. The ayes to the right, 292. The noes | :24:41. | :24:54. | |
to the left, 303. Of those honourable members representing | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
constituencies in England, the ayes to the right, 203, the noes to the | :24:58. | :25:10. | |
left, 291. On both counts, the noes have it, the noes have it. Unlock! | :25:11. | :25:20. | |
Point of order. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. People have called | :25:21. | :25:27. | |
the debates held in this House on this measure and the Leader of the | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
House made several attempts to explain it to members but what was | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
said by the Government is that nothing could pass against the will | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
of the House. All of this procedure was about making sure that nothing | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
was imposed on English members against their will. But we have just | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
had an illustration of a vote which could have enacted an order against | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
the will of the House will stop the majority was only 11, if the | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
majority had been in the other direction and a house had voted as a | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
whole to know the order the English members had voted against, then the | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
matter would still have stood and students would still have been | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
deprived of their vital maintenance grants against the will of this | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
House, and exactly contrary to what the Leader of the House and others | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
on the Tory benches told us. It will be no satisfaction to English | :26:20. | :26:22. | |
students suffering under this Government in the knowledge that | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
they knowingly have deprived them of their maintenance grant. Madam | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
Deputy Speaker, could I ask the chair to reflect on this procedure, | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
because it is totally contrary and illustrates the complete swamp into | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
which these people have let this House. I understand the point the | :26:39. | :26:46. | |
right honourable gentleman is making. He has made the same point | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
in different ways at various times. But this is a new point because this | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
is the first time that we have actually had a double majority vote, | :26:59. | :27:07. | |
and this is a different procedure. The right honourable gentleman will | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
appreciate, of course, that the procedure that we have undertaken | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
this afternoon was approved by the whole house and put into standing | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
orders just a few months ago, and therefore the procedure under which | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
we have operated this afternoon has been approved by the whole house, | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
possibly not by the honourable gentleman, but by the majority of | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
the whole house. But the right honourable gentleman very reasonably | :27:38. | :27:39. | |
asks me, and this is what I can deal with, whether this matter will be | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
reviewed. I'm happy to tell him that of course it will. Mr Speaker has | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
made it clear that he will be keeping the new arrangement under | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
review, and I also understand that the procedure committee will be | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
keeping the arrangement under review, and I'm sure that the point | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
that the right honourable gentleman has just so eloquently made will be | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
taken into consideration by both Mr Speaker and the procedure committee | :28:08. | :28:08. | |
as they consider the matter. This is the first time in 15 years | :28:09. | :28:18. | |
that I have attempted to vote in the lobby and being denied the right to | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
do so. My name is not on the tablet that was used. This is... This is a | :28:23. | :28:31. | |
denial of the rights of my constituents to be represented in a | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
vote in the House of Commons. And can I seek assurance from new that | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
my vote will be recorded in the government lobby and that this kind | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
of error will never be allowed to happen again? Yes, I can well | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
understand the honourable gentleman's understandable | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
consternation. I am absolutely certain that his constituency is in | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
England, because it is right next to mine. And he has a perfectly good | :29:05. | :29:15. | |
reason to complain. I am certain, however, that although his vote... | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
It is quite wrong that his name did not properly appear and I am certain | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
that that will be rectified. But I am assured that, although his name | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
did not appear on that list, and his vote was not recorded in the way or | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
the other votes were, his vote has been recorded both by the tellers | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
and by the clerks this afternoon. And he need have no fear that his | :29:43. | :29:49. | |
opinion has been overlooked, nor should it ever be. Point of order. | :29:50. | :29:57. | |
If it is any consolation, my name was not on the list either. But I | :29:58. | :30:10. | |
have been assured... By the teller that the vote was recorded. I am | :30:11. | :30:18. | |
particularly concerned for the honourable gentleman, because he is | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
very new to this house. I hope he will be making his maiden speech | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
later this afternoon and we are all looking forward to that. Of course | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
your names or to have been there and we will do everything we can to make | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
sure it is there in future. I will come to that in a minute. Point of | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
order. I wonder if you could help me with this. This is very serious. The | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
fact one of our members, one of the most English, has been denied the | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
opportunity to vote in the first double majority vote in this house. | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
That is something that has to be properly investigated. Can you | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
suggest is now worth having a recount, giving the honourable | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
member has been left out of his first boat? -- given that. His vote | :31:15. | :31:25. | |
has been counted. I can assure the honourable gentleman that his boat | :31:26. | :31:36. | |
has been counted. Most definitely and there is no need whatsoever for | :31:37. | :31:44. | |
a recount. -- vote has been counted. Thank you very much. I am very | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
grateful for this opportunity to put on the record this part of the | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
review. When a house adopts this appalling procedure to exclude from | :31:54. | :32:00. | |
the count the votes of MPs like myself, who represents Northern | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
Irish constituencies, because it has indicated that it is exclusively | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
English, but undoubtedly affect my constituents, may I strongly | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
recommend and extend a very warm welcome to the minister responsible | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
for the bill for the statutory instrument to come to Northern | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
Ireland, to milk and meat the students who have been affected. -- | :32:22. | :32:34. | |
look and meat. And explain why their rights have not been honoured | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
equally with other MPs. All I can say is that, as I said to the Right | :32:39. | :32:45. | |
honourable gentleman, the whole house decided on this new Standing | :32:46. | :32:54. | |
Order and I would also say that have -- her vote has been registered and | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
counted and her constituents will know how she has voted this | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
afternoon. It hasn't been counted twice, but it has been counted once. | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
Very definitely. And she has made her point. Point of order. May I | :33:08. | :33:16. | |
assure the chair that fabricant was indeed on the tablet and the vote | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
was recorded. And may I just take this opportunity of praising the | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
clerk 's office, the Parliamentary digital service and yourself for | :33:28. | :33:35. | |
going through this innovative and creative bit of legislation, so I | :33:36. | :33:42. | |
think, relatively smoothly, despite the travails of my honourable | :33:43. | :33:50. | |
friend. I thank the honourable gentleman very much indeed for his | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
point of order. It is the case that the clerkand the offices of the | :33:56. | :34:03. | |
house and those who work behind the scenes have worked very hard to put | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
this new procedure into. And, given that it is the first time that we | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
have had a double majority vote, it has not gone perfectly smoothly, but | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
we all learn from our mistakes and I am quite certain that it will go | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
more smoothly in the future. And I do ensure the house, especially | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
honourable members who have concerns, that both Mr Speaker and | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
the procedure committee are keeping a careful eye on what is happening. | :34:33. | :34:39. | |
As is the Leader of the House on these matters and everything they | :34:40. | :34:41. | |
have said will be taken into consideration. If there are no | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
further points of order, we will proceed to the next business. That | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
is the motion in the name of the Leader of the Opposition on the cost | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
of public transport. I informed the house that Mr Speaker has not | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
selected the amendment and I call Lillian Greenwood to move the | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
motion. Thank you. I beg to move the motion that stands in my name and | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
that of my right honourable and honourable friends. I would like to | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
start by wishing the Secretary of State and happy New Year. Although | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
that may not have been the sentiment that came to most commuters minds | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
when they returned to work a fortnight ago. I am afraid it will | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
come of cold comfort to be told by the Minister, on the day that fares | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
rose again, that the government's plan for passengers is improving | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
journeys for everyone. The Chief Executive of transport focus gave a | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
more accurate assessment when he said that, "Some parts of the | :35:45. | :35:52. | |
country have seen performances so dire, that passengers will be | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
surprise if there are any fare rises at all." I attended a summit | :35:57. | :36:04. | |
yesterday -- in a summit yesterday, many would not be able to reconcile | :36:05. | :36:12. | |
that, because of unreliable and overcrowded carriages. I will give | :36:13. | :36:21. | |
way. I am very grateful to this for giving way. -- to her. Does she | :36:22. | :36:29. | |
agree that members of all sides are fed up with excuses and broken | :36:30. | :36:40. | |
promises and we want action taking against Southern Rail? He is exactly | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
right and I know that he and other honourable friends are holding | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
Southern Rail to account for the poor punctuality and passenger | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
satisfaction. And that underlined the need for reform of the railways. | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
Let's look at the facts. In 2010, the Conservative Party said it would | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
relieve the pressure of both the fair pay and the taxpayer. What | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
happened? Regulated fares rose by 25%. Commuters from Birmingham to | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
London are paying more than ?10,000 for the first time for a season | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
ticket. Also, ministers bowed to lobbying from the train operating | :37:20. | :37:27. | |
companies and reinstated flex. So some season tickets have gone up by | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
38% since 2010. And a new Northern evening peak restriction made prices | :37:34. | :37:42. | |
go up by 162%. I'm sure my honourable friend will be aware that | :37:43. | :37:49. | |
senior citizens, who may have business in London doing work for | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
charities now find it very difficult to afford to come to London, unless | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
it is outside peak times. And they are not very often able to arrange | :37:58. | :38:01. | |
meetings at times that would suit them. He is quite right that there | :38:02. | :38:10. | |
are concerns that for people who need to travel at peak times, it is | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
almost impossible to find an affordable ticket. And bus fares | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
have continued to rise, up 26% on average. More than three times | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
faster than wages. In some areas have seen much higher rises. In the | :38:26. | :38:32. | |
north-east, they have risen by 3% above inflation. And it is the | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
nonmetropolitan areas that have seen some of the steepest increases, | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
including the constituencies of many of the members opposite. Where fares | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
have increased by 27% on average. I will give way. Thank you. The | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
problem with buses is not just the fares, it is the fact that in rural | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
areas, like my constituency, the privatised bus companies are | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
withdrawing the services, because their margins are not big enough. | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
Leigh he makes an important point and in many cases it is hard-pressed | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
local authorities that are trying to fill the gap. -- he makes. When | :39:12. | :39:23. | |
ministers said the cuts would not impact on fares or service levels. | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
Almost six years on, the impact of the resumption is to bus subsidies | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
and local authority budgets is clear. -- reductions. The impact is | :39:35. | :39:51. | |
clear. Last year, it had shrunk to 17%. The overall mileage of social | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
necessary services is down by 10% in the last year alone. And the number | :39:57. | :40:03. | |
of transport authorities funding young persons travel schemes has | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
fallen. They are used by every sector of society and we need new | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
routes that are serving areas that are not currently served. We know | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
that buses are particularly important to disabled and older | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
passengers. And those on low incomes, young people and | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
job-seekers. And I am proud of the support that Labour introduced. It | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
provides a lifeline for pensioners and kept many networks going. The | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
Prime Minister said he would keep the free bus pass. But Madam Deputy | :40:42. | :40:51. | |
Speaker, what is the point of a free bus pass, when there are no bus | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
services left? I will give way on that point. Thank you. Before I | :40:58. | :41:05. | |
entered this bus, I sat on the board of Cardiff buses. We had to get | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
together as Welsh bus companies and fresh legal action on the Welsh | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
Labour government, because of breach of contract. -- threaten legal | :41:16. | :41:23. | |
action. You don't want to talk about your own government's record on | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
concessionary fares. He doesn't want to talk about the debate and issue | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
here. And what has happened here in England. And I have to say if you | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
search the speeches and the statements that ministers opposite | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
have said from references to fare rises, you will spend your time in | :41:49. | :41:56. | |
vain. I will make some progress and give way. They account for two | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
thirds of public service journeys. They mentioned it will only once in | :42:01. | :42:07. | |
passing. He will no doubt say that fans have been provided for local | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
authorities to bid for support. And also investment for clear and | :42:13. | :42:20. | |
freshen buses is welcome. Fares have outstripped inflation and wage | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
growth and the savings from the falling cost of fuel is not being | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
passed on. Across the country, bus services are trapped in a vicious | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
cycle, where fare rises dampen down demand and rates are cut. In a | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
moment. When transport focus, the watchdog, | :42:40. | :42:54. | |
interviewed the people affected by the cuts, one person said they had a | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
daughter who was disabled. They cut the bus service in the evenings, | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
social cannot see them on a Sunday night. Another said that they cannot | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
see elderly parents in the evening and care for them as much women | :43:06. | :43:13. | |
needed most. They relied on the bus. One respondent said simply that, I | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
cannot see dad in a nursing home on Sunday because there is no bus. The | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
members opposite might say that the Government cannot be held | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
accountable for the operation of a eight market and it is that London | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
is the only area excluded from the 1985 transport act. The fact is that | :43:32. | :43:36. | |
across the country buses continue to receive very high levels of public | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
support. 41% of the industry's costs are met by subsidy. The competition | :43:43. | :43:45. | |
commission found that genuine competition between bus companies | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
beyond occasional and destructive bus wars is rare. Councils are | :43:50. | :43:59. | |
forced to provide additional services where they can still afford | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
to do so. It places additional costs of over ?300 million per year on a | :44:03. | :44:09. | |
hard-pressed local authority. The North East transport authority has | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
only been able to maintain local services by drawing on its reserves, | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
while also pursuing reforms that would allow it to deliver better | :44:17. | :44:18. | |
services at a lower cost to taxpayers. While fares... I will | :44:19. | :44:27. | |
give way. But every thing she says is incorrect and obviously bus | :44:28. | :44:29. | |
services are difficult. This is about choice. I would say to her, | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
she needs to look at North ligature's Conservative run council | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
who were able to reinstate the bus that was cut by the previous Labour | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
government. In terms of choices, Labour run councils cut the workers' | :44:46. | :44:52. | |
us so they could pay for a bonfire once a year. The honourable member | :44:53. | :45:01. | |
needs to look at what powers the local authorities have two enabled | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
to make effective choices on behalf of passengers. That is what I intend | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
to set out. While this continues that macro while fares continue to | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
rise, there are profit margins of 13% or more outside of London. For | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
four years, mothers opposite ignored calls for reform. I am proud that | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
Labour has continued to jump in the case for bus tendering. -- chewed | :45:30. | :45:37. | |
champion -- decamp in the case. They were called on reformed | :45:38. | :45:47. | |
Stalinists because they were trying to reform the services. We must | :45:48. | :45:59. | |
question the sincerity of the commitment and that test will come | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
in the forthcoming buses built. Will the Bill make buses available to all | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
who need them? Will it contain measures to protect auroral bus | :46:12. | :46:14. | |
services, which are particularly important to those communities, and | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
have been hit by some of the highest there rises in the country? Madam | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
Deputy Speaker, will it protect transport authorities from crippling | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
compensation claims? A scheme board said that the authority should have | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
set aside to do hundreds ?26 million to compensate operators for the | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
potential loss of business. -- 226 million. | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
A key northern powerhouse commitment will never get on the road, not to | :46:45. | :46:51. | |
mention Cornwall and others who seek bus tendering powers. While the bus | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
market is costing too much and is not delivering for passengers, we | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
have seen the same trend on our railways. Commuter fares are also up | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
by a quarter since 2010. Season tickets cost up to ?2000 more. | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
Ministers restored the loophole known as Flex, meaning that the cost | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
of some season tickets has risen by up to 38%. Even in fares in the | :47:19. | :47:26. | |
north or by up to 106 to 2% at the direct insistence of the Department | :47:27. | :47:34. | |
of Transport. I give way. Will she remind us for harmony as Flex is not | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
available on the last Labour government was in office question | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
and my correct that it was just one year, the year of the election? The | :47:41. | :47:49. | |
Labour Party scrapped Flex permanently and it was his | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
Department that chose to reinstate it, as well he knows. It is only as | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
a result of concerted pressure by this side of the House that they | :47:59. | :48:01. | |
have dropped it in the last two years. Evening fares in the North | :48:02. | :48:15. | |
Heights by 106 to do -- 162% in the North. | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
The conduct is hard for the uninitiated and the even the | :48:21. | :48:27. | |
initiated to understand. Alongside an efficiency gap of up to 40% the | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
bed to the best performing European operators, wasting money that should | :48:32. | :48:40. | |
be used to fund the rise in travel costs and reduce fares. | :48:41. | :48:48. | |
The smart ticketing programme that underpins the new policy is MDA | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
percent over Budget, delayed by three years and there are rumours | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
that it could be cancelled. The Secretary of State confirm that the | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
south-east flexible ticketing programme is being dropped? | :49:04. | :49:05. | |
Ministers may claim that services are getting better for everyone, but | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
I thought into mind the gap between their rhetoric and reality. We all | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
remember when the honourable member said that rail passengers had to | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
start to realise that they are paying their fares for God to book a | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
meeting. I will give way. In the corporate ladder of rhetoric which | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
the honourable lady currently is, she has forgotten that in the last | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
year of the Labour government, in one year, fares were dubbed by 11% | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
and it is this government that has frozen begin a defence for three | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
years. Would she like to acknowledge that and put some truth on the | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
record? I thank the honourable member for his intervention. If you | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
look at our record, rail fares were actually increased by inflation or | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
even cut during six out of 13 years in power. Fares did rise in some | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
years, and that helped to fund investment. Under Labour, there was | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
more investment in rail in real terms than under any previous | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
government. What we're seeing under this government is that that link | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
has been broken. The Transport Secretary said that only commuters | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
were paying regulated fares and on regulated fares could be quite | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
cheap. Those comments are a world away from the frustrations enjoyed | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
by passengers everyday on the southern and Thames league which | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
works best in this House and indeed today by the member for Streatham, | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
which reflect an increasingly overcrowded and unreliable network. | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
In 2009, the Conservative Party's rail policy review said that there | :50:43. | :50:45. | |
rises come with tacit governorate approval and the direct result of | :50:46. | :50:53. | |
the franchise process. For the Secretary of State say why did will | :50:54. | :51:03. | |
resume... Passengers were always told that high fares were necessary | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
to pay for improvements. Under this government, that link has been | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
broken. The electrification of key lines was first paused and then | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
shambolic we on paused, one week before the Conservative party | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
conference. Those projects are now delayed by years. Madame Debord is | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
bigger, this ghost heart of public trust in the row ways. Ministers and | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
honourable members opposite went into the last election on a | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
manifesto that said key improvers would be delivered in this | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
Parliament. Information about the true state of those programmes was | :51:38. | :51:39. | |
kept concealed within the Department. The Transport Secretary | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
has said that he was not informed about the state of the | :51:45. | :51:46. | |
electrification programme until after me. Why did he not post | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
searching questions within the Department in 2014, when my | :51:53. | :51:54. | |
predecessor, the honourable member for Wakefield, challenged him to say | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
which electrification programmes would be delayed or cancelled due to | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
cost overruns on the Great Western mainline. I will give way. I will | :52:03. | :52:09. | |
ask one question, how will all of this be paid for? Will it be | :52:10. | :52:16. | |
borrowed, or we -- or will be put up prices? I will come to that later in | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
my speech. The honourable member should listen intently. The cost | :52:22. | :52:34. | |
estimates for great Reston education rose from 548 million to 930 million | :52:35. | :52:42. | |
to 1.7 billion. It is now rising further still to 2.8 billion. Why | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
did he not act when the Transport Select Committee warned in January | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
2015 that key rail enhancement addict had been announced by | :52:54. | :52:55. | |
ministers without Network Rail having a clear estimate of what the | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
projects will cost, leading to uncertainty about whether the | :53:00. | :53:01. | |
project is will be delivered on time or at all. Will he confirm that he | :53:02. | :53:08. | |
commissioned a report on the state of the litigation programme, which | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
reported to him in September 2014, a report that has never been published | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
and a Freedom of Information act request for a copy has been | :53:17. | :53:19. | |
personally refused by a minister in his Department. What did that | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
reports say? What has he got to hide? The truth is, his Department | :53:24. | :53:31. | |
was clearly warned by Network Rail about the impending problems. | :53:32. | :53:38. | |
Network Rail's Chief Executive confirmed to me that, and I quote, | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
in mid-March 2015, Network Rail informed the FT that decisions may | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
need to be made in the coming months about the deferral of certain | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
schemes. If the Secretary of State really was not aware of what his own | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
Department and Network Rail were doing, there is only one possible | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
explanation, he made it clear he did not want to know. He failed to take | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
responsibility and passengers are paying the price. We were told that | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
it had and 50 miles of track would be rectified before 2019. Is it now | :54:12. | :54:20. | |
half the original target? Is it quarter? Will he confirm that by | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
2019, this government will do well to realise the plans for edification | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
which were set out by a Labour member of state a decade ago. -- | :54:32. | :54:40. | |
plans for a list of patient -- at plans for electrification. | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
Can I remind the Transport Secretary, his comments of two years | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
ago, when he said that Labour's fare freeze would cost ?1.8 billion over | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
the blood of the next Parliament and will be paid for by more borrowing | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
and higher taxes. Given the black hole in Network Rail's finances will | :55:01. | :55:07. | |
be plugged by asset sales and ?700 billion of additional borrowing, is | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
it not the case that this government's ostrich like approach | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
to the railways has resulted in what his own party might call more | :55:16. | :55:17. | |
spending, more borrowing and more debt. Madame Debord is weaker, we | :55:18. | :55:27. | |
need investment in our network. I'm proud of the fact we saw record | :55:28. | :55:35. | |
investment before 2010. We invested more in the row ways in real terms | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
than any previous government. It addressed the chronic maintenance | :55:39. | :55:46. | |
backlog getting rid of unsafe coaches and ending the appalling | :55:47. | :55:49. | |
safety crisis created by the disaster that was Railtrack. I'm | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
concerned that the Government's programme has come to resemble not | :55:56. | :55:58. | |
the hell did biggest investment assist the Victorian era that we | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
hear about, but the weaponisation plan that did so much damage to the | :56:03. | :56:09. | |
support for our row ways. -- to our railways. Again and again, the less | :56:10. | :56:17. | |
edge is the same, they did not know they were not responsible, they were | :56:18. | :56:25. | |
not there. They were not keeping an aye on the franchise programme which | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
collapsed in 2012, costing taxpayers of the ?50 million, or the | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
allocation of trains in the North, as the Secretary of State approved | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
the transfer of rolling stock from Trans Pennine to the south, | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
triggering a capacity crisis that cost another ?20 million to resolve. | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
It seems that their focus was solely on privatising East Coast, a | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
successful public sector rail operator which delivered record | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
passenger satisfaction and by jollity scores, cut its fares in | :56:57. | :57:03. | |
real terms in 2014 and invested all of its profits in the service. As | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
reported last week, East Coast with delivering the best service on the | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
line in the weeks before it was sold. Instead of extending that | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
successful model to the other franchise services, the route was | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
prioritised to be sold off. Worse, we now learn that tricky operated | :57:21. | :57:28. | |
railways, it has been outsourced to companies with no experience of | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
operating passenger services. We are left in the absurd position of | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
divesting our in-house railway expertise at precisely the moment | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
that several franchises from competition sees to be in doubt. On | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
top of the damage already done, they seriously considering advertising | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
Network Rail. They already tested the theory to destruction with | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
Railtrack. The sell-off of bedrock while -- of Network Rail will risk | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
dragging us back to the worst excesses of privatisation. I say to | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
the Transport Secretary, do not go down this road, we know how it ends, | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
and we on this side of the House will oppose it all the way. Can I | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
just say how disappointed it was that the SNP in Governor but only | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
issued a franchise for ScotRail but they passed up the opportunity to | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
invite... CHEERING | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
The franchise was awarded a four month after Gordon Brown made it | :58:29. | :58:39. | |
clear that forced rail privatisation would be no more. On the right to | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
include a public concentration is before Parliament in the film. They | :58:44. | :58:52. | |
urged the Scottish Government at the time to... I thank her kindly for | :58:53. | :58:59. | |
giving way. In terms of this and emotion I'm pleased she is | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
addressing that part. I feel the request is particularly ironic, | :59:04. | :59:06. | |
given that she talks about powers the local government should have. | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
The Scottish parliament and government does not have the power | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
to do this. What her and her party are encouraging as the Scottish | :59:15. | :59:17. | |
Government to break the law. Can she explained why? Order. Before she | :59:18. | :59:26. | |
answers, she has been very courteous and taking a lot of interventions | :59:27. | :59:34. | |
and it is good to have a lively debate, but it has less than an hour | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
and a half to go. She only has 25 minutes and she will also be aware | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
there are many other people who wish to speak. I move towards finishing | :59:42. | :59:51. | |
my speech. It's a pity that the honourable member didn't refer to | :59:52. | :59:53. | |
the fact that the Labour government fully devolved the franchise. | :59:54. | :00:09. | |
Actually, the invitation invitation -- issued, says they reserve the | :00:10. | :00:18. | |
right to amend or terminate it. It was entirely in the power of the | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
government to break the turn of the 1993 at could be amended, but they | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
chose not to do so. There is nothing in the 1993 act or the invitation | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
that prevented them from delaying the competition until section 25 of | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
that act was amended. It is regrettable to see the inaccurate | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
amendment laid down by SNP members today. It falls to Labour to set out | :00:43. | :00:51. | |
the case for reforming the services and addressing the rising cost of | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
public transport. That is what they are doing in local government. It is | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
what my right honourable friend will do as the Mayor of London. By | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
putting bus and rail passengers first. We must play our part in | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
Parliament, too. And I urge members to support the motion today. Patrick | :01:12. | :01:23. | |
McLoughlin. Thank you very much. I welcome the chance of this debate. I | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
know the honourable lady cares very much about the subject. She has | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
worked with us on the bill for eight S2. That is making good progress and | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
I would like to thank the session for the their support. -- HS2. I | :01:36. | :01:45. | |
would like to thank everyone responding to the floods. It has not | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
been easy, but good progress is being made. In Cumbria, I was there | :01:49. | :01:58. | |
to see it first hand. Over Christmas, Network Rail carried out | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
successfully its biggest ever works as part of the upgrade plan, which | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
is so essential. I would like to pay tribute to the thousands of staff | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
who gave up their Christmas to improve our railways. Today, the | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
honourable lady asks about transport costs. I'm pleased she has. It is | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
something the opposition should know all about. When they were in office, | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
fares sword. In their last full year, regulated fares increase by up | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
to 11%. And between 2004 in 2010, they went up by around 4% a year. | :02:36. | :02:44. | |
They could increase of some 26.4%. We have kept increases down. They | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
have dropped steadily over the last five years and we have frozen the | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
monthly increases and inflation for the whole of this Parliament. They | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
promise made in our manifesto, a promise kept in government. Saving | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
over one quarter of a million season tickets and average ?425 over the | :03:02. | :03:13. | |
next five years. Fuel prices are down by almost 60% in real terms, | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
since 2010. And we abolished a number of increases, which were | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
going to take place under the Labour government. -- season-ticket | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
holders. If all of the howling we have just heard from the opposite | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
benches about oil prices, was not the party opposite who wanted to | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
freeze those prices? I am going to see a bit more about their record in | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
government. I'm not sure I want to say too much about their record in | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
opposition. There are three people trying to catch my... To get me to | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
give way. I am mindful of the short time we have. I'm sorry about that | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
and I know there are debates that are going to take place, but I will | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
take a few interventions and I will take the honourable gentleman, that | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
they either want to make progress. Can I ask him whether he thinks the | :04:08. | :04:14. | |
cost being ?964 for a season ticket from Streatham Common to London | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
Victoria is good value for money, in light of the recent services that my | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
constituents have been subject to? That's by Southern Rail. And also, | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
can I ask him whether he will give serious consideration in the future | :04:31. | :04:39. | |
to looking at the break up of the GTR franchise? I will say something | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
about the works that are going on on the network. The amount of work that | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
is taking place will lead to some disruption. It will lead eventually | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
to a much better service for all his constituents. So the huge investment | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
that is taking place at the moment, will cause disruption while it is | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
taking place. I wish that was not necessary, but people are going to | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
be getting a much better service. That is at London Bridge station. | :05:07. | :05:14. | |
But I do want to make some progress. Fuel prices are down by almost 60% | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
since 2010. The cost of driving licences has been reduced. Theory | :05:20. | :05:28. | |
test crops have been cut, as well as car insurance. But another thing | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
they don't like talking about is the cost to our country of lost | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
investment when they were in office. Cost to jobs, businesses and growth. | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
Britain slipped from seventh to 33rd on the World Economic Forum's | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
infrastructure league table when they were in government. They | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
cancelled over 100 major Rd improvement projects. They didn't | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
invest when they have the chance, they electrified just ten miles of | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
railways. Less than one mile a year. I was going to say it was a snail's | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
place electrification. But I have checked. That would be unfair to | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
snails. They go faster than the last Labour government. So to sit, or to | :06:14. | :06:21. | |
hear lectures from the opposition about electrification is not | :06:22. | :06:23. | |
something that any member on the side of the house is going to take | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
from the Labour Party. They didn't invest and they made the task of | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
rectifying their mistakes much more of a challenge. The real benefit | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
cannot be felt until all is vital -- this vital, but disruptive work has | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
been completed. No wonder they are so reluctant to debate transport. | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
Her immediate predecessor didn't even have a debate on transport. | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
There is only been three debates on transport since 2010. That is, | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
obviously, because they are so embarrassed by their record. They | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
are so impressed by our record. She has served on the opposition front | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
bench since 2011. She is the fourth shadow Secretary of State I have | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
faced. And in that time, there have been about as many changes in the | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
opposition's transport policy as there has been an shadow secretaries | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
of State. I have a choice. I think I will give way. I notice he has been | :07:28. | :07:37. | |
avoiding it for the past few minutes. Cannot ask him whether he | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
will have a look at the use of citizen's cards. -- can I ask him. | :07:42. | :07:52. | |
Some people badly need them. They need to come to London to do charity | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
work, but the times do not suit the times when they gather. Can they | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
have a look at that and the different franchises and the | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
different uses? I want to create more capacity and doing that is one | :08:10. | :08:19. | |
way we will do that, by building HS2. But it is very important we | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
look at those things. Of course I will look at the points he makes. I | :08:24. | :08:34. | |
do really need to make progress. The honourable lady used to be in favour | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
of rail franchising. She seems now to be against it. It is interesting | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
to note that her party's candidate for mayor is apparently so keen, | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
that he wants transport for London to bid for contracts in the private | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
sector. 2014, she got of our great railway companies, Stagecoach, to | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
sponsor the Christmas cards. These days, Labour only has one policy on | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
transport, turn all the singles bright red. -- signals. Now it wants | :09:06. | :09:14. | |
to impose yet another cost on hard-working people. The cost of | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
strikes. Not a single word about the planned strikes next week on the | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
Underground. A party that won't even stand up for Londoners when the | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
unions carry out selfish and irresponsible strikes. This | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
government clearly stands on the side of Londoners and those who want | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
to work here. Will the honourable lady condemned those planned | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
strikes? I will give way to her if she will. Will she can them? | :09:44. | :09:50. | |
Silence. She is properly under orders to join the picket lines. | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
Does she agree with Lord Mandelson, who said" strikes would be | :09:55. | :10:05. | |
economically efficient, because some travellers would discover better | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
ways into work". That is Labour's new policy. A strike that aims to | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
stop Londoners getting new and better services. It is central to | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
the British economy. Because we are dealing with decline and deficit | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
that the party left behind, we can afford to invest for growth. That | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
means more things relating from our transport system. 1.65 billion | :10:32. | :10:40. | |
journeys on the railway network. 316 billion vehicle as on our roads over | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
one point three million journeys on the tube. That is why we are | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
building railways and opening opportunities. A massive programme | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
underway now, building Crossrail, completing Thameslink. Starting HS2. | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
Setting up an independent centre structure commission. Getting on | :11:05. | :11:15. | |
with a ?15 billion road investment strategy. Labour patched to cancel | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
that. 38.5 billion investment in our railways. Can I thank him. Can I | :11:24. | :11:34. | |
just remind him that during the course of the last election, they | :11:35. | :11:44. | |
also said they would cancel the A359. I didn't hear how it would be | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
paid for and I was told to listen clearly. | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
They were saying they would take those roads out of the investment | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
strategy. It is through our careful custodial management of the economy | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
that we can afford to invest in the future. That is why we also see some | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
4000 new railway carriages for the national network on order now, | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
mostly being built in Britain. The honourable lady talks about the need | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
to help people travel costs up and down the country, and I agree. That | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
is why we are investing in Nottingham, which she represents. | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
They has bid ?150 million widening the A453. We are under the tramp of | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
a contribution of over ?70 million from this government. More in six | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
years for the people of Nottingham than in the previous 13 years of the | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
last Labour government. I must welcome as well the honourable | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
member for Middlesbrough to the bench, sitting just down the way | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
from her. I hope he will last longer than his predecessor, which will | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
give him the benefit of seeing our investment in his constituency. New | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
trains, direct services from London under virgin train is. East Coast. | :12:59. | :13:06. | |
And in upgrade to the A19 nearby. Birmingham already has the upgrades | :13:07. | :13:20. | |
to new Street station, services on Sunday from Longbridge and the | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
M5programme. Under Labour, the cost of travel goes up and the cost of | :13:28. | :13:35. | |
lost investment goes up as well. Investment is going on under us. I | :13:36. | :13:46. | |
give way. I thank him. We have had an edification and road improvement | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
projects. Will he acknowledge the good work done by North Mick | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
Jagger's Conservative cancer which reversed the 500% increase in the | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
cost of post-16 bus passes, adding them from ?180 to ?30 under this | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
party. My honourable friend clearly shows that when Conservative | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
councils choose priorities, they choose priorities to help local | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
people and to make sure the investment goes on to the front | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
line. I congratulate the council in his area for doing so. If my | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
honourable friends will forgive me, I aware of the time and I know that | :14:21. | :14:29. | |
other on what members -- honourable members want to speak, including an | :14:30. | :14:38. | |
important maiden speech will. This is what the honourable lady is | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
biggest, direct services to Middlesbrough, Dewsbury, and more | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
trains to London from Bradford, Edinburgh, Harrogate, Leeds, | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
Newcastle, Shipley, Stirling and York. That is our plan to build for | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
the future. It means avoiding our great cities as well. With this | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
government, great city deals, new mayors, a northern powerhouse, a | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
transformation of the railways in the North. Mr Debord is bigger, in | :15:05. | :15:12. | |
2004, when the opposition was in charge, it let the franchise for the | :15:13. | :15:22. | |
Northern rail go to a zero growth basis. -- Mr Deputy Speaker. | :15:23. | :15:31. | |
There is massive overcrowding, people expected to travel on one | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
outpaces. World just before Christmas the governed lead a new | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
franchise for Northern and Trans Pennine, which means that there is a | :15:40. | :15:48. | |
boost to rail services. 500 new carriages, 40,000 extra spaces for | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
passengers, free Wi-Fi on trains and stations. No wonder local Labour | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
politicians in the North were lining up to praise it. Liam Robinson, the | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
chairman of Mersey travel said it was a big step forward and will | :16:01. | :16:08. | |
drive up standards. Labour councils, all praising the devolution to rail | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
law. The RNC had a comment as well. -- the RMT. They describe it as a | :16:15. | :16:22. | |
bitter blow. I have two Oscar, who did she agree with? Will she have | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
signed that franchise contract, yes or no? But they have left the North | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
with nothing as they did last time, while we bring in private and public | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
sectors together, providing better services. The honourable lady | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
mentions buses. Does she want to nationalise them? Working with a | :16:43. | :16:52. | |
private sector. Bus use outside of London fell by 8% under her party. | :16:53. | :17:00. | |
In 2010, and the 25% of buses outside London could take smart | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
cards. Quebec 2010, bosses are safer, with more CCTV, they are | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
busier and safer. There is a steam to by -- there is a | :17:14. | :17:26. | |
scheme to buy new minibuses. On the ropes, we have work with transport | :17:27. | :17:33. | |
England will. in cycling, which the opposition did | :17:34. | :17:48. | |
not even mention today, we increased spending from two fans ahead which | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
we inherited in 2010 to ?6 a head today and we will go further still. | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
That is the investment we need to help cut the cost of transport. | :17:59. | :18:09. | |
Getting on with HS2, construction is starting less than two years from | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
now. Record investments, a rail fare increase frozen with inflation. | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
Transport transforming our country while the party opposite just wants | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
to go back to an age when the train use fell, fares went up and | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
investment was cut. This government is optimistic about the rail, road, | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
bosses, and cycling. We are going to be trusting we will see investment | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
at a record level which will be good for our cities and for our country, | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
right across the transport network. Mr Deputy Speaker, I urge the House | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
to reject the motion. Before I start, can I echo the sediment of | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
the Secretary of State regarding the staff that work in the floods and | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
inclement weather over Christmas and New Year on all other networks to | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
keep us moving in to help passengers as they travelled. Mr Deputy | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
Speaker, a debate on public transport is welcome. People need | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
public transport, they need effective, regular and affordable | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
public transport. The issue needs to be moved forward. I'm not sure from | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
the opening exchanges and would have had that. Public transport is | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
something which is close to my heart and that of many of my honourable | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
friend. My constituency is mostly a rural community. Scotland has a | :19:38. | :19:45. | |
diverse public transport set of needs. Many can only use their cars. | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
It is not just the cost of public transport that matters to them, but | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
also the cost to the public transport. This motion could have | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
benefited from the inclusion of some other forms of transport that people | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
need. And even rely on in Scotland. For example, we do not see a BA | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
should as something other than public transport, that is what it | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
is. Marine transport is important to us, with berries, and that is public | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
transport. As Secretary of State, public cycling schemes and public | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
costs in relation to roads, tolls for example, and the need for major | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
if a structure projects in consideration to Scotland could be | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
debated. This debate could have been more inclusive and serve common | :20:33. | :20:40. | |
purpose. They could have been more positives, seeking to benefit | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
people. Turning to the buses, many local bus services received | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
subsidies to ensure that uncommercial services could continue | :20:49. | :20:58. | |
to operate. In 9095 to 2015, Scottish bus fares went from being | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
10% higher than England to then having lower bus fares. Since 2007, | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
bus fares in Scotland have risen by 5% less in Scotland than in England. | :21:09. | :21:16. | |
Since 2010, bust fares -- bus fares have risen... The Scottish garment | :21:17. | :21:27. | |
have invested ?250 million -- ?250,000 every year in a | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
concessional travel scheme. That helps older and more disabled people | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
to live connected, healthier lives. In aviation, currently, are direct | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
flights to over 32 countries and the successful work is ongoing to | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
improve local collections to Scotland and connectivity through | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
world hubs. We plan to make changes to improve the situation for a | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
travelling up to reduce their cost, to help businesses including tourism | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
and food entering to improve our economy and give better choice to | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
people and to grow key sectors of the economy, or for the people of | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
Scotland. We are working to see guaranteed levels of access between | :22:14. | :22:22. | |
Scotland and London. It is important to ensure vital if a judge as an | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
asset that can contribute to the Scottish economy. In roads, we have | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
invested to ensure that Scotland has a modern transport researcher for | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
the 21st century. -- modern transport infrastructure. We have | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
abolished all rolled tolls on bridges in Scotland. -- all road | :22:50. | :22:57. | |
tolls. We have invested in a new Forth crossing, again with no tolls | :22:58. | :23:06. | |
for the public. Ministers from the Scottish government have invested in | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
peers and harbours. It will accommodate the new vessel. Since | :23:14. | :23:22. | |
2007, we have invested nearly ?1 billion in ferry services including | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
road equivalent tariffs and six new ferries. We have introduced a third | :23:28. | :23:40. | |
hybrid, which was launched at the shipyard in Glasgow in 2015. In | :23:41. | :23:49. | |
October 2015, Ferguson engineering Limited were awarded a contract to | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
build two ferries with a delivery date of 2017-18. The First Minister | :23:57. | :24:04. | |
of Scotland confirmed on Monday, just yesterday, but Dundee Central | :24:05. | :24:06. | |
waterfront infrastructure would be the latest Scottish government | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
project to be delivered on a Budget and ahead of schedule. This includes | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
a re-rationalised project and is part of the Dundee waterfront | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
project which will create 7000 new jobs. Let me come to the interesting | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
one on rail franchises. The Labour Party have chosen this important | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
issue, and this is what the public will not understand outside of this | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
chamber. They have chosen this important issue in here to attack | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
the Scottish government. Not the UK government, who are they -- they are | :24:42. | :24:50. | |
supposed to be opposing. Every time they take a trip up the branch line, | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
they end up embarrassing themselves and the branch office in Scotland. | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
Frankly, they aren't harassing everyone. The purpose of opposition, | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
surely, is to build alliances, to hold the Government to account? What | :25:05. | :25:11. | |
a missed opportunity! The SNP are the effective opportunity in this | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
chamber. That is why they go after its everyday. They know that now. | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
They spent more time on us now. This motion, in this motion, imagine | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
deliberately inserting a line, a complete falsehood, by the way, | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
which makes it impossible for us to support them in the lobby tonight. | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
Imagine that, Mr Deputy Speaker. People are looking on. They see this | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
shambles for what it is. They are switched on like never before, and | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
they are continuing to lose respect for Labour with stunts like these. | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
Let me tell you about the Scottish government and frail policy. The UK | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
government oversees a perverse system each four bits publicly owned | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
UK bodies from bidding on rail franchises. Overseas private | :26:02. | :26:22. | |
operators can bid. They are currently prevented by UK | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
legislation. There is a lesson for then, Mr Debord is bigger. -- Mr | :26:29. | :26:38. | |
Deputy Speaker. This would allow maximum social and economic benefit | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
for our people. Labour have used this motion to attack the SNP for | :26:42. | :26:51. | |
awarding the ScotRail franchise. They know that the Railways act of | :26:52. | :26:58. | |
1993 setup under John Major 's government specifically forbids UK | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
publicly owned Company 's from bidding. This is a matter for | :27:04. | :27:11. | |
rhetoric versus reality. I am grateful. He said | :27:12. | :27:22. | |
that the regulation was induced under John Major, but can he confirm | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
that the Labour Party democracy and it over 13 years? They are in the | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
position of having to agree with the Cabinet Secretary. Imagine that! | :27:36. | :27:37. | |
What an absolute shambles. The Labour Party spent 13 years in | :27:38. | :27:48. | |
government without ever changing, despite heavily amended the act with | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
the transport act in 2000 and the Railways act in 2005. Although, they | :27:54. | :28:04. | |
had the power, they did nothing to repeal the act. Nothing. It is not | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
the first time we have had this nonsense. The newly elected leader | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
of the Labour Party, not so new now perhaps, said not long after taking | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
the leadership," I have been in Scotland a lot of times during the | :28:21. | :28:28. | |
leadership campaign. I will be there during the leadership of the party. | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
" The SNP are also privatising other things. We are behind the | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
privatisation of ScotRail. What an absolute pile of nonsense. A | :28:41. | :28:49. | |
successive -- as a successive governments have done before, they | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
were following the regulations they are required to follow in EU law. | :28:54. | :29:01. | |
Does he not recall that once upon a time the Labour Party was actually | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
in power in Scotland as well. It was in power down here and there. And at | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
no point did he -- they make any effort to bring it into public | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
ownership. I am grateful for his intervention, because he is right. | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
They made no effort in government either here or in Scotland to do | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
anything about this. They know very well that the act forbids the | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
Scottish Government for doing that. -- from doing that. We had that | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
fabrication about the ability to change that from the Labour leaders. | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
He also said the SNP said we were behind the privatisation of | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
ScotRail. There wasn't even a Scottish permanent ban. But don't | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
let the truth of the law get in the way of anything then. -- parliament | :29:55. | :30:04. | |
then. Where was that support when every single Scotland Bill amendment | :30:05. | :30:11. | |
tabled by the SNP was voted down in this house? Where was that? " For | :30:12. | :30:20. | |
well allow for the Scottish Government to consider bids from | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
other operators. But we tried to go further. We tabled a new clause to | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
devolve rail services in Scotland, giving Scottish ministers for powers | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
and the flexibility to decide who would run such services. Like every | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
other as MP amendment to the Scottish bill, it was voted down. | :30:43. | :30:50. | |
That was by English MPs. -- that clause. | :30:51. | :31:02. | |
It would allow us to adjust the current ticketing system, whilst | :31:03. | :31:11. | |
having a fair system. We could happen any time single ticking from | :31:12. | :31:18. | |
London to Edinburgh. For London to Newcastle. -- single ticket. London | :31:19. | :31:32. | |
to Aberdeen costs 107 50. It is just... It doesn't make sense. | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
Frequently, it is cheaper to split a ticket on by a direct one. That is a | :31:38. | :31:45. | |
single from King's Cross to Edinburgh cost ?95. Often, a King's | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
Cross to York and York to Edinburgh costs ?66 in total. We could have | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
done something about sorting that out. Let me say that the Scottish | :31:54. | :32:01. | |
Government or the SNP will take no lessons from the Labour leader when | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
it comes to investing in Scotland. With such a lack of understanding of | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
even the basics, it's no wonder that, according to a recent survey | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
poll, his approval rating in Scotland are -17%. The First | :32:16. | :32:22. | |
Minister has approval ratings of plus 27%. As we have already | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
established, the issue of public ownership being out of the hands of | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
the Scottish Government, so I would like to talk about the rail | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
franchise in Scotland to finish up. The Scottish Government work and | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
Abellio to the ScotRail franchise, because they have moved their UK | :32:42. | :32:50. | |
headquarters from London to Glasgow, creating 50 new jobs. As a result of | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
new Deal, passengers and staff will enjoy a range of benefits, including | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
advanced fares starting at ?5 between Scottish cities, a | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
commitment to earnings of at least the living wage in Scotland. For all | :33:04. | :33:10. | |
staff and contractors. At least 100 apprenticeships, a guarantee of no | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
compulsory redundancies. Rail staff pensions and travel rights | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
protected. Free Wi-Fi on trains, a new approach to cycling, with more | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
than 3500 parking spaces and a bike hire out a number of stations. | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
Compare that to Southern Rail. 80 new trains due to arrive at the | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
start of December 2017 and 23% more characters across the network. The | :33:37. | :33:44. | |
Scottish Government's record on rail is a ?5 million programme of | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
investing in Scotland's railways, committed to over five years to | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
2019, including ?117 million on the Aberdeen to Inverness rail upgrade. | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
?300 million to open another rail link, providing a passenger service | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
from North Lanarkshire to West Lothian for the first time in 54 | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
years. Since privatisation, there have been regulated. -- they have | :34:10. | :34:20. | |
been regulated. In January 2013, fares across all operators were 23% | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
higher than they were in January 19 95. The average annual increase has | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
only been 1.2%. I will finish with this. It's nice to be appreciated, | :34:30. | :34:41. | |
thank you. This is the story of a government investing in public | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
transport for people. The Scottish Government's budget has been cut by | :34:46. | :34:52. | |
12.5% in 2010. One in every ?8 has gone for unnecessary ideological | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
austerity. Despite this, we are still investing in infrastructure. | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
Having already invested ?15 billion in transport since 2007, they are | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
committed to the largest transport investment programme that Scotland | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
has ever seen, despite this relentless Westminster cuts. I | :35:13. | :35:21. | |
wanted to make a short competition. -- contribution. It is important he | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
gets his maiden speech. I would like to talk about Birmingham | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
International Airport, but we will see that. I want to talk briefly | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
about some of the great rail links in the West Midlands area. My | :35:38. | :35:45. | |
constituents can live in my constituency and are able to travel | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
there. It makes it easier to get them across the Midlands. We have | :35:52. | :35:59. | |
seen a 700 million pounds refurbishment to Birmingham new | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
Street and a new John Lewis store. We have seen ?13 million awarded to | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
the mess Midlands gains until 2017. This will include upgrades to ticket | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
service machines, including being made contactless. Ensuring passenger | :36:15. | :36:24. | |
safety and technology giving up to date. I welcome the devolution deal | :36:25. | :36:32. | |
signed in November, which will power the Midlands ending. Ever the first | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
region outside the north to sign a deal for the elected mayor. The new | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
authority will have the overview of transport in our region. Before I | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
finish, I would like to say something about HS2. I have been a | :36:48. | :36:54. | |
huge fan of this project. We have seen the HS2 headquarters move to | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
our region and huge investment being put into this project. It is almost | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
always talked about as being about speed. It is also about passengers. | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
We talk a lot about rebalancing the economy. And I believe it can help | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
us do this. There's always two sides to every story and I wanted to put | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
on the record that my constituency and our region are benefiting after | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
years of underinvestment and will continue to do so for many years to | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
come under this government. A maiden speech. Thank you. Thank you for | :37:32. | :37:42. | |
allowing me to make my maiden speech in this debate. I should pay tribute | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
to Michael Meacher, not simply because it is customary to do so, | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
book because he was a dear friend to the people of my constituency. He | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
will be missed and remembered locally and by members of this | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
house. I would like to thank the voters of my constituency for | :38:02. | :38:09. | |
instilling their trust in me. I can say over work hard to live up to | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
that trust, along with my colleagues. And from a Labour Party | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
point of view, I think as a family we have shown what we can achieve | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
when we pull together. The result was an impressive result for the | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
Labour family. As I stand here today, I reflect on the remarkable | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
story, and I would say that, wouldn't I? Of a young boy from a | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
place in Manchester. Standing here in the House of Commons today. The | :38:39. | :38:46. | |
Street where I grew up as a child no longer exists, but the values | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
instilled in me of hard work and courage remain. Mr Deputy Speaker, | :38:50. | :38:58. | |
the borough of Oldham and seven towns, their culture, community and | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
comradeship have played a defining part in history of our country. | :39:02. | :39:10. | |
Their values of hard work, grit, integrity go to the heart of British | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
values, exemplified by its diverse communities today. My constituency | :39:17. | :39:26. | |
got it base in history making the Lancaster bomber. It employs 20,000 | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
people. When it closed its doors in 2012, the 1500 staff that remained | :39:33. | :39:46. | |
moved out and that was a Saturday. -- Saturday. And Platt brothers once | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
famous for being the largest engineering plant in Europe. Both of | :39:51. | :39:57. | |
those have now gone. And Royton actually has a lot in common with | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
this place. You may remember this rhyme, remember, remember, the 26th | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
of November. 26th of November 1884, which was when the Royton town Hall, | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
the gunpowder plot unfolded. Knowing windows and doors off that. And, | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
interestingly, by a gang master who was campaigning against measures | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
through the Thatcher 's act to restrict children from ten years old | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
working in the Milnes. Many people who know Oldham as an industrial | :40:33. | :40:41. | |
giant and it was. It spun over 17 million spindles. More than the | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
whole of the united states. 80% of the total number of spindles were | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
spun in the UK. -- working in the Milnes. It was built on exploitation | :40:52. | :41:00. | |
and very little regard for famous. People came from countries right | :41:01. | :41:02. | |
around the world to make a better life for themselves. People | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
struggled in desperate poverty, while quite a lot of the money left | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
town. Exploitation didn't stop in Oldham. To feed the 70 million | :41:13. | :41:19. | |
spindles, that required a lot of cotton. Picked in the field of the | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
American South. As the machines raged in 1860, it took 200,000 black | :41:25. | :41:32. | |
slaves to pick enough cotton to feed e-mails. So exploitation at home and | :41:33. | :41:42. | |
abroad. Today, hard-fought battles for betting living standards, they | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
welfare state when you need it and decent homes that have been eroded. | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
-- better living standards. People have seen their lifeline is being | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
taken away. For too many, work doesn't play and they cannot make | :41:58. | :42:05. | |
ends meet. Now, I may be pitting Oldham as being beaten. Mark my | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
words, we are far from beaten. We have courage, and we have | :42:10. | :42:17. | |
determination. -- painting. Have a future will be solidified on solid | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
hard work and industrious revolution. | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
We are town going from strength to strength. We are creating new jobs. | :42:25. | :42:32. | |
We can be proud of what we have achieved in recent years, but too | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
often it feels that we're doing it alone. It shouldn't be that way. | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
Devolution must be more than a love affair with the big cities. It must | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
deliver and provide a decent settlement for towns and four | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
districts as well. I want all them to flourish, to be the place where | :42:49. | :42:58. | |
my sons and the other 57,000 young people with proud -- will be proud | :42:59. | :43:05. | |
to call home. The challenge is not to be one of good administration but | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
good, strong political leadership. We have shown we can get things | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
done. The expansion of the tram system will definitely accelerate | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
economic road. We must also push for the future. Cross borough expansion. | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
I want to use this opportunity to place a marker down, a marker for a | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
loop line from Ashton town centre through to Oldham. And from | :43:32. | :43:41. | |
Middleton spur on to the Bury line, connecting the conurbation of | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
Manchester. I hope my honourable friend will realise that I was the | :43:48. | :43:57. | |
honourable member for transport in Manchester. Our past never crossed. | :43:58. | :44:07. | |
-- our paths never crossed. As we fight to end the North South divide | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
in the UK, we know that if a structure investment can address | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
Manchester's own North -South divide. If we point out the | :44:20. | :44:30. | |
imbalance in the UK, we cannot ignore domestic matters closer to | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
home in Greater Manchester. For every ten judge that were created in | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
South Manchester in the last decade, only one was created in the north of | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
the conurbation. We cannot carry on like that if devolution is to be a | :44:42. | :44:48. | |
success. I believe in devolution and I will continue to fight for power | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
to be moved away from Whitehall to empower communities. I have got to | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
be honest, devolution as it stands today does not empower communities. | :44:57. | :45:04. | |
As the former leader of Oldham Council, I called the devolution and | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
worked hard to make sure we had a clear vision for Oldham. Far better | :45:08. | :45:17. | |
devolution on time she did not agree with, or have no devolution at all. | :45:18. | :45:28. | |
Without a clear national framework for devolution, it is for the | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
Chancellor himself to pick and choose who he deals with and what is | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
on offer. The hallmark of devolution so far has been a Treasury power | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
grab, straight from other ministries. The Chancellor had the | :45:41. | :45:42. | |
opportunity to devolve real financial freedoms but he chose not | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
to. The Chancellor is quick to give away power of his bonuses and I'm | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
sure Microsoft the other side of the chamber will be concerned about | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
that, but the evidence said he's not keen on giving away his own power. | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
Without genuinely informing central governorate and addressing their | :46:02. | :46:05. | |
funding for the northern powerhouse, the brand is meaningless. This is | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
what people in Oldham Sea. They see the magistrates court is closing, | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
the county court is closing, we haven't got a single police custody | :46:14. | :46:23. | |
cell for the town. Youth centres, closing. Thousands of staff | :46:24. | :46:32. | |
displaced. Regeneration is blocked by central government, and we are to | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
be at the heart of the northern powerhouse. Biblical challenge of | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
our time is not how we divide to rule but how we unite and forge a | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
future where every man, woman and child see that they have got a stake | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
in the future, where there is more to life and there has got three more | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
to life than just getting by and making ends meet. Oldham MP was | :46:53. | :46:59. | |
Churchill once said, no one can come into close contact with the working | :47:00. | :47:07. | |
folk of Lancashire without wishing them well. But well-wishers alone | :47:08. | :47:15. | |
are not enough. The dark, so can ignore that blighted the sky have by | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
and large now gone. We are a long way from realising how own | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
Jerusalem. Friends, let us not cease from fight, not let our swords sleep | :47:26. | :47:32. | |
in our land until we have rebuilt Jerusalem in Oldham's Green and | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
pleasant land. We have a lot of speakers to get in. Can I suggest | :47:38. | :47:44. | |
that members. We can do up to two minutes each. May I say what a | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
pleasure it was to listen to be made in speech of the member for Oldham | :47:52. | :47:58. | |
West. It was an excellent speech. Everyone in this chamber will no it | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
is usually a nightmare to make your first speech in this chamber. But | :48:05. | :48:06. | |
the way in which the honourable gentleman delivered his speech, | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
without showing a single nerve, Worksop and justifies the reputation | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
that certainly outsiders from the south like I heard about the | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
honourable gentleman in the barn up to the by-election, that he was a | :48:25. | :48:32. | |
highly effective, highly personal leader of his local council. He is | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
not a loss to Oldham but he is certainly a game to the House of | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
Commons, and we look forward to his future contributions in our debates. | :48:41. | :48:47. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker... LAUGHTER | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
Thank you. I read the motion for this debate | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
very carefully. I have to say, I listened to the honourable lady, the | :48:57. | :49:03. | |
Shadow Secretary of State with great interest and growing amazement, as I | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
noticed that she was able to make her speech whilst keeping a straight | :49:07. | :49:14. | |
face. It was quite incredible. He is a motion which, if you look at the | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
parts of it to do with the row ways, is basically in nice, cuddly words, | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
suggesting that we renationalise the row ways. Many of my honourable | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
friends and be on Budget and who has just made his maiden speech are too | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
young to remember the days of British Rail but I do find it | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
extraordinary the way that history has been rewritten and that | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
everything was wonderful under that monolithic organisation that was | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
late, expensive, the sandwiches curled up at the ends, and did not | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
provide a fit for purpose rail system for this country. I am not | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
going to rehearse because of the shortness of time what has happened | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
since rail privatisation. What I can say is that, due to the private | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
sector, and government, there has been massive investment in our rail | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
network and, because I'm more generous than the front bench | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
spokesman sitting opposite, I will accept that on the last Labour | :50:28. | :50:34. | |
government they began the process of investing in our Railways to make | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
them fit for purpose. I would ask that they were equally generous in | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
accepting that we are spending billions and billions of pounds from | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
a variety of sources in investing in building on that improvement to make | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
sure we have a proper rail service. In control period five, ?38 billion | :50:56. | :51:01. | |
is being spent. Now, of course, Moore has got to be done, but we are | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
investing in the future, investing in passengers to make sure we have a | :51:08. | :51:15. | |
proper railway and to go back to a nationalised railway service, anyone | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
who suggests that, is living in cloud cuckoo land and is driven by | :51:19. | :51:26. | |
dogma, not by reality. I am grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker. Can I | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
also say what a pleasure it is to follow our new Labour colleague from | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
Oldham, here in this House today? I will be as quick as I can, but my | :51:38. | :51:43. | |
main contention today is that the cost of travelling on trains to and | :51:44. | :51:50. | |
from my constituency on the Thames league railway which runs services | :51:51. | :51:57. | |
through London and the south-east is a complete and utter rip-off, given | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
the dreadful service that commuters have been receiving over the past | :52:02. | :52:08. | |
few weeks and months. I stand not to make party political points on this | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
issue am I just want, and commuters listening to this, just want | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
answers. To put it in context, I want to pay tribute to transport | :52:20. | :52:26. | |
focus, and all at the campaign for better transport, who had been | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
highlighting the hell that has been given to commuters. According to | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
transport focus's most recent satisfaction service, the group that | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
runs Southern, has the worst for overall satisfaction. According to | :52:42. | :52:55. | |
two which, -- according to Which, the satisfaction is at rock bottom. | :52:56. | :53:04. | |
If you look at the most recent statistics for January, delays are | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
attributed to Network Rail. Members on all side of this House, we have | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
met with the executives concerned, have been provided with excuse after | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
excuse, broken promise after broken promise, and we have seen no change | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
whatsoever. Instead, we are given the general excuse of big | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
transformation works at London Bridge causing problems, industrial | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
nation issues, historic under investment in the structure and the | :53:33. | :53:38. | |
Quebec city 's of running a big franchise. That is all well and good | :53:39. | :53:47. | |
-- the complexities. We have a company here that has failed to | :53:48. | :53:49. | |
recruit drivers, failed to police maintain its rolling stock, and | :53:50. | :53:55. | |
people deserve answers. Instead of the same oldest uses, I want a | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
proper deadline set for them to provide a decent service to | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
constituents, I would like to see services and third to TfL in the | :54:06. | :54:12. | |
medium term and I would like to see Crossrail Two come to my | :54:13. | :54:19. | |
constituency. Want to get even -- once we get decent services, | :54:20. | :54:26. | |
ministers can make the argument for ?1000 for a season ticket in my | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
constituency being justified. I wanted to talk in this debate today | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
because the situation with the Midland mainline has been well | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
charted and many people have talked about it. But particularly white is | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
important that the progress of this Budget is going to go ahead, | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
notwithstanding what is in the motion today. The reason why it will | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
go ahead is because the centre of excellence that Derby is, for the | :54:55. | :55:01. | |
rail industry, rail innovation, over 200 companies around Derby are based | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
solely on the rail industry. We are the best placed area in the whole of | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
the country for opportunities for training, for innovation, for a | :55:13. | :55:20. | |
college, what ever it may be. The Government I think ought to listen a | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
little better about the opportunities there are to make sure | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
that the sorts of people growing up around the Derby area, who | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
understand about rail, who really have it in their DNA, to get the | :55:35. | :55:41. | |
best products for the future, for Crossrail, for HS2 and HS three | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
going up to Scotland. It is something we all want to see. These | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
are fantastic opportunities, and so I will not take up any more time. I | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
will congratulate the gentleman for Oldham for a one full maiden speech. | :55:57. | :56:00. | |
It was a pleasure to hear so much history, but he has got a bit of | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
doing to do in the future as well. Thank you. I promise to be snappy | :56:05. | :56:13. | |
but can I offer congratulations for Mike Noble friend for his fantastic | :56:14. | :56:16. | |
maiden speech? It is a pleasure to be in the chamber for it he has | :56:17. | :56:26. | |
obvious love for his constituency and I'm sure he will make a good | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
conurbation in this place. You never miss an opportunity to talk about | :56:33. | :56:38. | |
the rail but also the Severn Bridge tolls, which has been the subject of | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
many debates in this House. I know it will continue to be so until the | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
Government reveals what its plan for the tolls in future are. Something | :56:48. | :56:54. | |
like 10,000 people in Newport to meet over the bridges every day and | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
as highlighted ably on the front bench today, the cost of commuting | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
has increased substantially. I will give way. Would my honourable friend | :57:05. | :57:11. | |
agree that it is not just the people that live in her constituency who | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
are affected but every person who travels over the bridge into God's | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
own country, they are exploited. They are exploded by the tolls and | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
it is a good parent to trade -- it is a deterrent. | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
She is absolutely right and I thank her for adding weight to the | :57:32. | :57:38. | |
campaign. My constituents are basically trapped. They either have | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
to pay rising rail flares all pay the bridge tolls. -- rail fares. | :57:44. | :57:51. | |
Since 2010, season tickets for commuters have risen by 25%. Newport | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
to London, commuters pay ?2000 a year more than in 2010. From Newport | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
to Bristol Temple Meads, it has gone up by 27%. Demand for this service | :58:02. | :58:10. | |
is growing fast and we see no improvement in services. Trades are | :58:11. | :58:17. | |
overcrowded, not enough carriages. -- trains are. That is the feedback | :58:18. | :58:24. | |
I get every week. Carriages are overflowing, many times they are | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
left on the platform, simply no capacity. There is an alternative. | :58:29. | :58:35. | |
That's a little issue raised with me most frequently. Since 2011, the | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
bridge tolls have gone up by some 20%. This matters for my | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
constituents. They have seen an increase of those working full time | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
of only 2.4% in their wages. My fundamental point being that the | :58:52. | :58:59. | |
money taken by seven River crossings is protected, what's my -- whilst my | :59:00. | :59:11. | |
constituents is not. I very much look forward to the transport | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
Minister tackling that for my constituency. It is either Israel or | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
the southern bridge tolls and we need to know see what the | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
government's plans are as we reach the end of the session and the | :59:24. | :59:34. | |
bridges return to ownership in 2018. An excellent speech. I'm sure he | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
will be returning the front bench sooner than normal. He made an | :59:39. | :59:45. | |
excellent speech. She made out what I was going to say. I was going to | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
say, I am just about old enough to remember British rail and I remember | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
the fact that if you are wearing a light-coloured suit trousers, he got | :59:55. | :00:02. | |
them dirty. I remember carriages literally covered in excrement. That | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
was the state when it was in public hands. There can be no doubt that in | :00:07. | :00:11. | |
the last 20 years, the standard of the railways and the rolling stock | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
and the whole thing has moved forward. You simply don't get the | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
British rail catering jokes on the circuits used to get, because it is | :00:21. | :00:27. | |
a thing of the past. On that note of investment, I just want to make this | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
point. When we talk about what has happened to the railways and there | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
were still a lot of work to do and I know my friends on the front bench | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
are looking closely at ticketing. There is a little work to be. Is the | :00:39. | :00:45. | |
also have to bear in mind that we need to be creating more track. If | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
you look at my city in Leeds, and integrated tram system is absolutely | :00:51. | :00:58. | |
vital. That will never be built by government and public ownership. It | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
can only be built by attracting investment from the private sector. | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
So that people can make cheaper journeys into the city centre than | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
they have to make now. So it can be more reliable. So want to make that | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
brief point that investment is vital in the railways and it is something | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
that cannot be delivered in public ownership, as was proved time and | :01:21. | :01:29. | |
time again under British rail. Thank you. It has been a delight to hear | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
the maiden speech by my right honourable friend. An insightful | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
contribution to the debate. I was very pleased to be able to hear | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
that. Let me make two or three points. I am extremely concerned | :01:46. | :01:53. | |
about the rail fares rocketing by a staggering 25% since 2010. A lot of | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
my constituents rely on rail travel to commute in and out of Manchester | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
and Greater Manchester. Secondly, I am concerned about the government | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
using the retail pricing index to calculate writers in regulated | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
fares. Perhaps the Minister can tell us whether he thinks it is fair not | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
to use RPI to make those calculations. Perhaps he can explain | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
to me and my constituents why they pay 20% higher fares for a similar | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
journey that Bolton constituents make. A peak return fare from Bolton | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
to Manchester Victoria will set you back ?6 40 and yet for a very | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
similar journey from Rochdale to Manchester Victoria, you pay ?7. Why | :02:43. | :02:53. | |
is that? Is the chairman, Richard agreement, points out, this is | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
artificially high. -- as the chairman. -- you pay ?7 70. Perhaps | :03:01. | :03:09. | |
he can share his thoughts on that. Thank you. My congratulations to the | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
member for Oldham West and Brighton. I wish him well. -- Royton. Very | :03:16. | :03:26. | |
brief time I have. I wanted to inject a degree of realism into the | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
debate about rail fares. The first thing is that whoever owns the | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
railways, there is a balance to be struck about what the passenger and | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
general taxation contributes. If, as the motion before us indicates, that | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
the party opposite wants to see the passenger contribution decrease, | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
they had to say which taxes will increase to pay for that. Or spell | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
out which part of the common spending on the railway will be cut. | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
And if you look at what the current ticket price... From the come in | :03:56. | :04:07. | |
pairs that are paid, the majority goes on salaries, maintaining and | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
improving the track and we have the safest railway in Europe. I cannot | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
imagine they want compromise that. And it goes on investment and new | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
rolling stock. The profit margin is tiny. 3% of any plant that is spent. | :04:23. | :04:31. | |
And that is... That funds innovation and development in the railway. | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
Which we have seen doubled in the last 20 years. That is the reality | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
of the railways today. I had hoped we would have a more sensible debate | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
about the new technology and innovations in the railway. Time | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
does not permit that. The philosophical debate about | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
renationalising railways has obliterated the time to talk about | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
that. That is what we should be talking about. One final point, I | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
want to knock on the head this myth that Britain has the highest rail | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
fares in Europe. That is simply not the case. I would invite the house | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
to look at one wonderful website, The Man In Seat 61, you will find | :05:14. | :05:24. | |
that in 85% of the cases, UK rail fares are either the same cheaper | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
than those on the continent. Can I also congratulate the honourable | :05:29. | :05:37. | |
gentleman on his thumping of Ukip at the by-election. That is pleasing | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
for all of us. I do want to say about the infantile manner in which | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
his party has approached the debate 's evening. I would never trust the | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
Tories with the railway, but I wouldn't trust the opposition with a | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
train set by the way they have carried themselves this evening. The | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
mistake they have made such a schoolboy howler as to accuse the | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
Scottish Government of not using a power that not only it doesn't have, | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
but that every single Labour member with the exception of the honourable | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
gentleman for Oldham, along with the Conservatives, voted explicitly to | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
stop Scotland from having, during the Scotland Bill debate. They | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
almost give brass necks a bad name. There are two things I think my | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
constituents would like to mention. One is about smart ticketing, time, | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
when you travel by rail or bus, but the journey, right from the point of | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
payment, seems like a century that you are travelling. People want to | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
travel using apps to make life easier, rather than hanging around | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
queueing for a piece of paper. The second point I would make, which I | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
have made many times is in relation to hate as too. -- HS2. We want to | :06:57. | :07:09. | |
see as United with London, because it is our closest capital in the | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
world. We want them to benefit from greater connectivity. We want the | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
United Kingdom to up its game so we have a high-speed network that | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
serves all of the British Isles. We need to catch up with France, Spain, | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
China, if we are going to take the high-speed debate seriously. Those | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
are my final remarks. I would like -- like the previous speaker, I | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
regret we do not have that I do have a serious debate. I only hope we | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
have the opportunity again in the future. Can I also congratulate the | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
honourable member for Oldham West and Royton. Like it or not, the | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
government has launched the largest modernisation of rail since | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
Victorian times. It is absolutely crucial to economic growth in the | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
electroporation of the great Western line is in motion and talks like the | :08:08. | :08:15. | |
members opposite are damaging. The Chancellor and Prime Minister has | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
admitted to the electrification of the line of Swansea. This was | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
confirmed to me by the Wales Office Minister last week. If I may, with | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
this Conservative government, it will be electrified to Swansea. | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
Under 13 years of Labour rule, how much was electrified? What a single | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
mile was electrified. -- not a single mile. This stands in stark | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
contrast to the record and commitment of this government to | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
Wales. The record of the Welsh Labour government speaks for itself. | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
The integrated transport system is poor, in terms it doesn't exist as a | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
fully integrated transport system. We need to look no further than the | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
bus system is there to see the issues. One gave evidence in October | :09:09. | :09:17. | |
2013 saying that the current state of the bus sector is evidently not | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
successful, shown by the decline in bus usage, compared to other areas | :09:23. | :09:31. | |
of the UK. Wales lacks behind the rest of the UK in nearly every | :09:32. | :09:42. | |
economic measure. -- lags behind. I can only say that I am very grateful | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
to my right honourable friend for the system that we are having now | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
down to Swansea of electrification. I've only got two down. One minute | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
will be enough to pay tribute to the honourable friend for his maiden | :10:01. | :10:09. | |
speech. And welcome him to the exclusive group of by-election MPs. | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
And I fully support any project to do with the Middleton 's birth. | :10:13. | :10:22. | |
Ministers say the -- passengers need to realise the price of comfortable | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
commuting. Many of us to not need to look around, because of overcrowding | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
and uncomfortable services. Many and uncomfortable services. Many | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
constituents work and study near my constituency. Buses are overcrowded | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
and take too long. Passengers were told higher fares would pay for | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
improvements. But that has been broken. The Department for Transport | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
has made it clear that it wants an expansion of driver only operation | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
on our trains, with no guard on board to assist passengers. This is | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
a retrograde step for passenger safety. I would like to ask the | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
government and the Department for Transport to reconsider about driver | :11:10. | :11:16. | |
only operation. Thank you. I apologise if there has been any | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
confusion. Transport is essential in providing people with access to | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
work, food, and leisure activities. Especially in rural constituencies. | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
The reality is elderly, young and unemployed rely on public transport | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
and struggle to reach the places they need to go. Because of the lack | :11:37. | :11:47. | |
of accessibility, most households are dependent on cars. So drivers | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
are spending more on fuel and paying higher fuel costs. Rising motoring | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
costs undermine the sustainability of rural communities. And they lead | :11:58. | :12:08. | |
to increased social inclusion. -- social exclusion. They impact | :12:09. | :12:09. | |
greatly on public transport. Some rural areas already suffer from | :12:10. | :12:20. | |
population decline, poverty and deprivation. They are less likely to | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
be able to afford a car and rely on public transport. In my | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
constituency, we have villages that no longer exist. We have already | :12:33. | :12:40. | |
talked about the Labour Party being in power for 13 years and not | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
addressing the issue mentioned in their motion today. A change in this | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
legislation will enable us in Scotland to ensure delivery of a | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
real service that delivers maximum social and economic benefits and | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
address our needs. Instead of attacking the Scottish government | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
for something they have no control over, but side of this House should | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
be applauding them for what they have achieved, despite constant | :13:06. | :13:16. | |
cuts. Let's ask it on with it. As we debate the cost of travel today, at | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
this were a moment, thousands of our fellow citizens in all | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
constituencies are in buses, they are on trains, they are in cars and | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
on bikes. The quality of the transport system is relied on | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
everyday and that is why this matters. It is brought home to me | :13:37. | :13:44. | |
earlier this year, on a train, across the aisle from me, a young | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
woman who worked in a supermarket near Ipswich station was telling her | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
friend Lumley about the shock she got when she purchased a ticket that | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
morning, an extra 60p. Annexed to ?3 a week. -- an extra ?3. For millions | :13:58. | :14:09. | |
of our constituents, every penny counts was that we have not heard | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
enough today, but Italy about the problems on buses. Let me start by | :14:15. | :14:25. | |
welcoming the first contribution of the member for Oldham West and | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
frightened. We enjoyed campaigning in his | :14:29. | :14:36. | |
constituency in the autumn. It already made a very powerful pact on | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
the political scene, for his work leading the local council. Is God to | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
be sure and pointed out some of the weaknesses in the devolution | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
policies. We also had excellent contributions and not enough today | :14:54. | :15:00. | |
from my right honourable friend, the member from Streatham, pointing at | :15:01. | :15:10. | |
the weaknesses in his constituency. What all of this confirms is what we | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
already knew, that rail and bus fares have shot up since the party | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
opposite came to power. We will all trade figures on these things, but | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
the key figure is to compare fares and wages. What it really costs | :15:23. | :15:32. | |
people. The truth is fares have risen three times faster than wages. | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
That is why it hurts. There are some who do not feel the pain. The | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
secondary estate seems impervious to it. He set some months ago and I | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
quote, more transport, better transport, under our majority | :15:46. | :15:47. | |
government, it is happening. Has he really forgotten about the broken | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
election pledges to provide key Brits in the North, as the ballot | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
boxes closed? Or was it just paused? Isn't it interesting how the | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
Government has introduced new words into the lexicon. Paused sounds | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
innocuous, but it could be an epitaph, a country on pause. We have | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
two thirds of councils cutting local bus services. Over 2400 local | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
authority supported bus routes cut or downgraded. We could go on a | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
national tour of bus shelters where there are no buses, or maybe they | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
are paused as well. He is making some excellent points and I wonder | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
if you could comment on the introduction of a stealth fare | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
increase. People expected rail fares to go up in January, but we must not | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
forget that Northern Rail, this government introduced an evening | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
peak which, particularly hit part-time workers and students and | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
caused chaos in railway stations across the North. That was induced | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
about a year ago. In September. Indeed, and she makes a strong | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
point. We know when it comes to buses, the party opposite will say | :17:07. | :17:07. | |
that these are local decisions. But that these are local decisions. But | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
we know the truth, that by slashing budgets for local councils, they are | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
passing the buck. They trooped through the lobbies imposing those | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
very cuts on local councils. They believe you have to take | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
responsibility. On this site, we strongly believe in the principle | :17:29. | :17:31. | |
that local communities should have a say over their public transport, and | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
we have long been committed to that. What the Government is offering for | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
bus services is a sham. They are offering funding while taking it | :17:41. | :17:49. | |
away with the other. A further election of 24% is to come. Local | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
authorities have been left with tradable choice but to cut to the | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
bone. It seems that the devolution agenda is little more than a front | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
for public transport cuts. This is not a Northern powerhouse, it is a | :18:06. | :18:14. | |
Northern power cut. When the Government's bus service operators | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
grant, effectively used as a device bus fares, was cut in 2010, the | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
Department for Transport one that small towns would be worst affected. | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
They certainly got that right. They were. What needs to be done? We need | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
do not carry on as we are. It has been fascinating to watch the U-turn | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
being carried out by the DFT as they cottoned on to the fact we are being | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
taken for a ride by many of the bus operators. They are now trying to be | :18:46. | :18:56. | |
Labour's policy of bus regulation. At the election, we promised the | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
biggest shake-up of the bus industry in years. How does the bus operators | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
must have been to find that it is a Conservative government that is | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
looking to learn from the positive experience in London and applied | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
across the country. People may be sceptical about this conversion but | :19:15. | :19:25. | |
we weight bus legislation and we hope for councils to have... The | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
status quo is not working. Private bus operators have abandoned us | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
services that and be unprofitable, leaving the most honourable in our | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
society stranded. We want to gift amenities real genuine power to plan | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
fares and timetables and reflect local needs. Although some bus | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
operators have persisted moves towards coordination, these powers | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
are in power in London. If they are good enough for London then they are | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
good enough for any other area that was. The alternative, leading bus | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
services to deteriorate, is no alternative at all. The primers | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
ester made many promises which have not stood up to scrutiny. People | :20:15. | :20:21. | |
missed older people that the free bus pass would be maintained. As so | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
often with this Prime Minister, it is for them to read the small print. | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
He kept the bus pass but said nothing about keeping the bus. The | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
number of concessionary passes has gone up, but the number of | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
concessionary bus journeys has gone down. A bus pass but no bus. How | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
useful is that, exactly? Mr Speaker, we need a better way. | :20:42. | :20:49. | |
Thank you. This is only the third opposition day debate on transport | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
since 2010. But this government are always keen to debate transport | :20:56. | :20:57. | |
issues at the House. Let's hope, maybe like London buses, two will | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
come along very soon. The honourable member for Inverness for the SNP | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
talked about the importance of aviation. We know how important this | :21:10. | :21:18. | |
is for local committees. That is why we are adding routes to the capital. | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
I will move onto the next speaker. The honourable lady for Redditch | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
expert help of men spending is delivering for her region, | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
particularly the Birmingham area, from HS2 and the capacity it will | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
deliver. The honourable member for Oldham West and frighten, in an | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
excellent maiden speech, paid tribute to his predecessor. He has a | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
track record of delivering locally, which am sure had a lot to do with | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
his ilex and success. -- his by-election success. I'm sure that | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
his sons will be very proud of their dad today. The honourable member for | :21:57. | :22:04. | |
Chelmsford gave it a reality check about the bad old days of British | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
Rail. If members opposite were paying attention, they might want to | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
remove their rose tinted spectacles. The honourable member for Streatham | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
spoke for hard pressed to meters. If he cared about them, you would not | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
be pushing for commuters. The honourable member for South | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
Derbyshire welcomed HS2 and investment in the Midland mainline. | :22:26. | :22:33. | |
There was a highlight of the cost of the seven crossing increasing. | :22:34. | :22:44. | |
The woman but spoke about Leeds, the biggest European city that has now | :22:45. | :22:54. | |
integrated travel system of its own. The honourable member for Rochdale | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
spoke about how we should link their rises, this is inflation plus zero. | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
This is some thing that the previous government failed to do. Whichever | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
measure we use, it is a board that players rise more slowly under this | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
covenant -- it is important that fares rise more slowly under this | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
government. The big question the opposition needs to address is how | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
they will pay for all of these promises. They could not make that | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
argument in 2015 and eight spec they will fail again in 2020. -- I expect | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
they will fail. I have to say, I did check out what | :23:27. | :23:36. | |
it will cost might Jordan to return from university for Easter this | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
summer. My daughter, who lives in London, can travel one-way from | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
King's Cross to York for as the tall as ?20 if she decides to depart at | :23:45. | :23:51. | |
7am. Being a student, takes that she will want to travel later. At | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
lunchtime, she can pay ?38 for a ticket, but that gets a one third | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
discount as it didn't, so she can come for ?25. That is on the east | :24:02. | :24:12. | |
coast, run Bygott macro virgin. -- run by Virgin. | :24:13. | :24:19. | |
I'm not sure if, just before the election in 2010, the outgoing chief | :24:20. | :24:25. | |
secretary was following a tradition or setting a precedent when he left | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
that now infamous note, saying, I am afraid there is no money. How | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
refreshingly honest. I thought I would follow suit. My last date in | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
the Department for Transport, as I packed up my personal effects before | :24:40. | :24:42. | |
leaving last year, having paid particular attention to the opinion | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
polls, I hope my replacement would be cheered by a message. Hewitt is, | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
and it reads, there is money for infrastructure, thanks to our | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
long-term economic plan. I'm sure that is one of the reasons why we | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
have had so few opposition day debate on transport in the last 5.5 | :25:06. | :25:13. | |
years. ours is a record of delivering, compared to under | :25:14. | :25:14. | |
Labour. Hornby delivered more electrified | :25:15. | :25:26. | |
rail network in the time that Labour was in government. The investment in | :25:27. | :25:34. | |
my notes is being delivered, 4000 new carriages, 38 .5 billion pounds | :25:35. | :25:43. | |
to improve railways. 6 billion to address the pothole backlog that we | :25:44. | :25:50. | |
inherited and high-speed rail to free up passenger capacity and | :25:51. | :25:57. | |
address a shrink in our capacity to Scotland. HS2 boron to Glasgow from | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
day one. There will be Scottish crews manning trains in Glasgow from | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
day one. When I go to Brussels, it is our franchising model that | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
countries like Italy and Spain want to emulate. British train companies | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
are winning franchises in Germany. They can see how the franchise | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
system is delivering better services, new rolling stock, smart | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
ticketing at more user-friendly routes. The question now be put. As | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
many of that opinion must say yes. To the contrary, no. The ayes have | :26:29. | :26:39. | |
it. The question is on the paper. Division! Clear the lobbies. | :26:40. | :26:47. | |
Subtitles will resume during Monday In Parliament at 11pm. | :26:48. | :26:56. |