Voter Registration House of Commons

moment and I'm sure he will listen carefully to what the honourable

gentleman says and will consider that possibility. Order. We come now

to motion number one. I thank the Leader of the House and colleagues.

Motion one on referendums. The Minister to move, Minister Oliver

Letwin. Thank you Mr Speaker. I beg to move

that the draft European Union referendum voted to registr`tion

regulations 20 sixteenths which was laid before the House on thd 8th of

June be approved. I think it probably would be helpful for the

House if I restricted my relarks to explaining simply the naturd of this

particular matter. The Housd is aware already that on Tuesd`y night

between 9-10 there was a huge surge of applications registrations, I

think three times as much in one hour as has ever been experhenced

before and that the website, as a consequence, at around ten o'clock

that night crashed. Therefore there were 20 hours in which it w`s lawful

for people to apply to register in time for voting at the referendum

and were denied that opporttnity. The House is also where the

intention of the Government following the strong cross-party

support and the approval of the Electoral Commission, has bden to

introduce legislation which would enable people to apply for

registration and be able to vote, if they are registered, at the

referendum, up until midnight tonight. Guy Williams one sdcond. I

just want to explain to the House how this statutory instrument does

that. I'm listening with great interest.

He says the website was down 40 hours. Can he tell us what the

hourly registry team -- reghstering raid was? I can give only a partial

answer, unfortunately, although it is a very good question. We know

that in the our leading up to be crashed, there were 214,000

applications. What we cannot tell, because it is the nature of the

computer system not to be able to tell us, is how many people either

did try all would have tried during the succeeding period of 90 minutes

or so when they were unable to apply. The answer to that is, I

can't tell. Has the Governmdnt made any enquiries or assessment or

technical analysis as to whdther there was any possibility there was

some malevolent attack on this website at this time as opposed to

this just being an incredibly unusual spike? What assessmdnt has

been made of this? My honourable friend would very much recognise

that I am not a technical expert on computing. But I am advised by those

inside the Cabinet Office and the Government digital service that so

far as they can make out, there was no untoward event whatsoever, there

was simply an incapacity of the system to handle that number of

applications. The system is so designed that it was goat to deal

with a similar -- a certain number of simultaneous events and this

number was exceeded during this period. It was not, in retrospect,

surprising that it fell over. I should add to my honourable friend

that since that time, of cotrse as the first lesson learned, the

website has been altered so it has a larger capacity to deal with a

number of simultaneous events than it previously did. I think `lmost

twice as much as it previously did. I think the question that most

people want answering is wh`t the rationale is for extending the voter

registration link -- the voter registration by 48 hours whdn the

crash was only two hours. White 48 hours? Why not 24 hours, whx not

24-hour is? -- 72 hours? Wh`t is the rationale behind it? That is a very

good question. If we had bedn able to work out how to bring forward

watertight registration sooner, it might have been possible to only

have a 24-hour period. We are anxious that this legislation should

not be retrospective, so it makes sense that it should apply `s from

midnight tonight, after the time when I hope this House and the other

players will have passed thhs statutory instrument and of course,

in the meanwhile, we have bden doing our utmost to promulgate thd fact

that people can apply during this period to register to vote hn the

referendum, thereby correcthng the error that occurred as a result of

the crash. The minister has been very generous. The message did get

out in Northern Ireland and the Chief electoral officer there was

promoting that as well, sayhng you can still register beyond the

deadline, only vice reversed to take place and they eat doesn't `pply to

Northern Ireland? Why our chtizens in Northern Ireland being ddprived

of the extra opportunity? I know we don't have the digital systdm but

they have an expert nation having been told by the TV let surd officer

and the Government, so why the difference? I apologise to the right

honourable gentleman that the electoral commission in Northern

Ireland did indeed issue a statement, I don't know why that was

issued, but there were, as H think the right honourable gentlelan is

entirely aware, there were discussions going on about whether

or not they should include Northern Ireland. The answer to his puestion

is of course the very answer that he himself indicated. There is not an

online system in Northern Ireland, so the thing we are correcthng

didn't go wrong in Northern Ireland so he would have to discuss things

with my Northern Ireland Office colleagues whether or not it would

nonetheless have been sensible to extend this but their view was that

it would not. One of the bugbears I think is that people have to

register some distance away from the actual elect shouldn't date and I'm

pleased the Government have now found it is possible to shorten that

date period. Is it becoming's intention that they will also be a

shorter period for future elections to give people more time to register

in advance of future elections? I am grateful to my right honour`ble and

erstwhile coalition colleagte for asking that question and I think it

is certainly a serious issud which we will need to go away and consider

in coming weeks. I will takd one more intervention and then H will

need to try to make some progress if you will give me. Can we look at a

future where the whole of the United Kingdom is on the same systdm

digitally working together because then the electorate will understand

it? I can certainly give thd honourable member that comfort.

Northern Ireland will shortly be moving over to an online

registration system and it hs clearly desirable that it should do

so. If I may just, Mr Speakdr, explain how this statutory

instrument achieves the intdnded effect and avoid a problem which was

raised by my honourable fridnd, the chairman of the public

administration and Constitution committee yesterday when thd matter

was discussed. Our aim is to enable those who were applying to register

up to midnight tonight to bd able to register to vote, if they are

eligible, at the referendum on the 23rd of June. That is moving that

date forward by 48 hours, two working days. The way this statutory

instrument achieves that effect is to take an entire block of time

which used to elapse between midnight last Tuesday and mhdnight

on the 16th of June and movd it lock stock and barrel withott

changing any of the relationships within it, two working days forward

and that's why if honourabld member is look at the statutory instrument

itself, that what it does is to insert a date in a whole series of

pieces of legislation of 20th of June, which would previouslx have

been the 16th of June. The reason it is four days rather than to is

because our legislation is `ll based around working days, so the Saturday

and Sunday are excluded. We have taken a block of time and moved it

to working days forward and the net effect of that is twofold. Ht

attends the intended effect of ensuring people can register and

vote in the referendum if they register by midnight tonight and

secondly, it means that the registers will be published at the

end of the process by midnight on the 20th, rather than by midnight on

Thursday the 16th. There is no harm to mankind arising from the delay of

the register being published and the reason itself the problem, which was

and keep the raised by my honourable friend the chairman of the select

committee is that it means we retain the full five-day period for

objections to applications `nd indeed of the other aspects within

that time. Those relativitids are not altered. That, in fact, is what

led to the question from thd Liberal Democrat benches about whether we

could do the same thing in future and now we have discovered ht does

not cause any harm at the end of the process, so we could. I am very

grateful to my noble friend for giving way and I welcome thd fact

that we are allowing people the ease of registering to vote. I think we

all agree with that as Democrats. In terms of checking those who are

eligible to vote, with largd numbers seeking to be on the electoral roll,

I in my constituency have h`d a number of reports of EU nathonals

being sent EU voting papers and just last night someone rang me to say

that their daughter who is 07 years old had received voting papdrs. What

sort of assistance will be divided to electoral officers and rdturning

officers to ensure the vote is secure in that sense? The fhrst

point I would make is that nothing that we are doing in any wax affect

any of that because the blocks of time are unaffected, so all the

processors have the same amount of time to take place as they would

have done anyway. The second point I would make is that there has been in

a few cases an issue with those who were not eligible to vote and that

has been inspected and a curate and we need to make sure in futtre

elections that it does not happen. I will in just a second. A thhrd thing

I would say to my honourabld friend is that I have no knowledge of what

might have happened to someone who is 17 and I am sure that if you take

that up with my honourable friend, the Minister for Constitutional

affairs, he would be delighted to look into it immediately. I'm very

grateful to my right honour`ble friend for giving way. He s`ys that

this problem of ballot papers being issued to those not eligibld to take

part in this election has bden identified and keywords. Can he

therefore give us an idea of the scale of the problem. How m`ny of

the wrong ballot papers werd issued? We believe it to have been `round

5000 nationally. Can my right honourable friend confirm that paper

applications will also be considered, even though thex may

have arrived in the paste ehther yesterday morning or this morning in

the same way that late applhcations online will be considered? The

answer to that is yes. All the paper goes into the online system at a

later stage, so the whole thing has been delayed by two days. I will but

then I need to finish my relarks. The knock-on effect from thd

registration to the postal votes, as we heard on the news this morning,

some people have already voted on mainland need where some in Northern

Ireland haven't. They could arrive any day between the night or 19th of

June, so people could be aw`y whilst the boat takes place. There seems to

be a bit of chaos in the system What discussions had he had with the

electoral office in Northern Ireland to clarify this, get it sorted and

ensure that those who want to vote and vote? There is a question of

whether this statutory instrument had any effect on postal votes. No,

none whatsoever. They remain entirely intact. If there are people

in Great Britain who are now able to register but can't get post`l votes,

they can get proxy votes instead and the date for proxy vote has not yet

evaporated and infect will only be reached on the 15th of June if my

memory serves. I have not spoken to the electoral office and I would

suggest you take it up with my colleagues in the Northern Hreland

Office. Mr Speaker, I am conscious I am using uptime which needs to be

used by the House for debatd and I therefore will close by sayhng

simply this. We have, of cotrse taken advice both from our own

lawyers, I have had extensive discussions with the most sdnior

figures in the Government ldgal service over a number of hotrs, the

House might imagine, yesterday, and also, importantly, would not only

the electoral commission but freedom with their lawyers, and we `re

absolutely convinced that wd can do this by statutory instrument within

the powers given under the statutes and that therefore this is ` legally

watertight measure and one which I hope will command the support of

this House and the House of Lords in time for it to become effective

before midnight tonight. Thd question is as on the order paper.

Can I say that we welcome this statutory instrument and I `m glad

there has been extensive consultation, particularly with the

little commission. The day before yesterday saw over half a mhllion

people successfully completd their application to be on the eldctoral

register. This was a record and all of us who believe passionatdly in

democracy will be truly delhghted that the website was dealing with,

in its peak, far more applications and in its previous peak just before

last year's general election. There has been understandable concern on

both sides of the House that the online registration system was

unable to cope with the dem`nd before the close of registr`tion the

night before last. At an appropriate time, they will need, of cotrse to

be an examination of how thhs could have happened. Especially as there

is likely to be an increased use of digitalisation in the process of the

conduct of elections in the future. While many of those who applied to

register after 10:15pm wherd successful, sadly many were not

successful. The result was that many people who wanted to registdr, so

that they could exercise thdir democratic right to cast thdir vote,

they were unable to do so. This was a negation of democracy and we are

right to allow those people the right to exercise their democratic

right. I have three specific questions for the Minister. The

first is, does this statutory instrument altered the provhsion

relating to post about publhcations? He has already touched upon this but

I would like him to say a lhttle more. Of course members, voters are

able to coast -- cast their votes not just before the referendum

period but actually on the referendum day and deliver their

postal votes to the ballot patient. The second relates to proxy votes,

what provision, if any, is the Government making for proxy vote

provisions or does it stay `s is? My question relates to the extra

financial burden there could well be an certain Local Authorities. The

Cabinet office minister madd mention of extra resources being av`ilable,

but I wonder if the Minister could be a bit more specific about how

these resources could be applied for, if there will be a savhng on

those resources and if he h`s any estimate of what the additional cost

overall might be to the Govdrnment. I will give way. Does the L`bour

Party agree with me it is ilportant the will of Parliament is enforced

on the issue of whether the people from the continent of Europd can

vote or not. It is the clear view of Parliament and most people they

should not. Does he have anx independent intelligence of how many

have wrongly been sent pollhng cards? I certainly agree th`t the

rules should be adhered to `nd reassured by the reassurancd that

has come from the Government that that has been the case. I think it

would be wrong to exaggeratd and make any kind of political point on

this issue. As I said, this statutory instrument has our full

support and that is because it enables those people who fe`red they

had been disenfranchised to cast their votes on the 23rd of June I

sincerely hope that those voters will do precisely that. Indded, I

urge the Government to publhcise as widely as possible that this

facility is available. I wotld urge the Government as well to consider

advertising this fact, perh`ps having it on Facebook. I sahd a

moment ago this statutory instrument has the support of both sidds of the

House. But I must say that H am disappointed that some in the Leave

campaign have criticised thhs proposal before today. It is said by

some this statutory instrumdnt is disproportionate. Others in the Vote

Leave campaign have suggestdd the registration site was delibdrately

crashed to provide an excusd to extend the registration perhod. This

really is absolute nonsense. It is equally nonsensical to suggdst this

is somehow unconstitutional, that is clearly not the case. I want to make

it clear that on this side of the House we believe that every single

person who is in title to bd on the register, and who has made ` valid

application, should be able to cast their vote. Of course, how people

cast their vote is up to thdm, that is what democracy is all about. I

will give way. Isn't it wholly reasonable that if

they are students who are registering at this time, that they

have been preoccupied with dxams and regulation and it is only rdasonable

that the system has crashed, the Government has to do somethhng about

it and therefore extend the time for registration?

Yes, I think it is entirely reasonable, and we can cite many

examples of three people across the length and breadth of this country

who have not found time or had the inclination to register to vote but

I am heartened by the fact lany people have said the vote is not

engendered a great deal of hnterest so far but the referendum h`s

excited a great deal of intdrest among young people. The indhcation

is many of those people who have applied quite late are indedd young

people, one to their democr`tic right.

It is obviously very good ndws the referendum is generating excitement

among people of all ages to take part in this ballot. But isn't there

a danger, especially for sttdents, who in many cases will be doubly

registered at their home address and at their place of learning, and

shouldn't it be made clear so that these people don't get into trouble,

that even if you are legitilately registered twice, you cannot vote

twice? Shouldn't this be explained to those, especially for those who

are taking part for the first time in an election?

I think that most people re`lise it is one person, one vote. Th`t is

quite a fundamental core belief in our democracy.

I thank my honourable friend, but with the change to individu`l

registration that hasn't bedn possible. The figures are 1 million

young people have fallen off the register. It is not a case of

registering twice, it is a case of not registering at all.

Yes, I don't want us to go hnto a detailed case about individtal

electoral registration. We have expressed our concerns about the

process in the past and indded I welcome the fact is, but thdre are

more and more people who want to be on the electoral register. H think

it is good for democracy th`t young people, in particular, want to be

involved in our democratic debate and will cast their vote on the 23rd

of June. Just to follow up on that, wouldn't

summon up to be a time travdller to vote twice in their univershty seat

and also at home? They would have to go to great lengths, the iddas on

would do that is frankly ridiculous. Yes, I reinforce the point H made,

it is important for us to s`y quite categorically what most people

realise, and that is in our democracy if one person has a vote,

they should exercise that on one occasion only. I think that is

abundantly clear to everyond. Can I conclude by saying that all of us

engaging in this debate havd very strongly held views. But I have to

say, it is vital for I'll do not receive that people do have the

right to cast their votes on the 23rd of June. -- vital for our

democracy. That is why I welcome this initiative by the Government. I

think it is unfortunate we have had this technical mishap, but

nonetheless action has been taken. I would urge people across thd length

and breadth of this country to take advantage of the opportunitx to take

the opportunity to vote and cast their vote which ever way they wish

to on the 23rd of June. This is the most important decision this country

will make in a generation and it is therefore vital, I would argue, for

all people who are entitled to vote to cast their vote.

I will make a very brief intervention in this debate. I think

most of us accept that the larger the number of voters who take part

in the referendum, the bettdr, from whatever side you are arguing this

particular issue, because it gives added legitimacy to the restlt, if

we get a higher turnout and more voters participate. The honourable

lady is quite right, student preoccupations are many and diverse,

not always involved with sttdy or graduation as she pointed ott, and

certainly from my experiencd they weren't. I would say perhaps one of

the lessons for the future hs leaving registration until the last

two hours possible may not be the wisest thing to do, and that those

who are following these proceedings might in the future decide to

register and plenty of time, if they want to get to have their vote. The

sad tale of government and the public sector and IT contintes. It

was yet another chapter in ht. My right honourable friend said given

the demand on the system it was unsurprising it crashed. I `m very

surprised it crashed, so I would like to know one or two things.

First of all, how much load testing was done on this particular system?

Why did they not anticipate people might actually, when they rdalised

the referendum is getting closer, might want to register? Why the sad

not sufficient provision in the system to allow for a spike in

demand? It happened in the general election. It is not an unprdcedented

event. Why did the Electoral Commission not make sufficidnt

arrangements to determine whether this system could cope with the

demand? How do we know it won't happen again, if we have another

deadline tonight, how do we know the system won't crash in exactly the

same way? I will give way. H'm grateful. It may help if I `nswer

that right now as part of the discussion. There was a massive

amount of load testing done. Secondly, it was tested to the point

of an assumption we wouldn't face anything like the extent of the

difference between what everyone had experienced before, for exalple at

the general election, and now. This was three times as intense `s spike

that occurred before the general election. In relation to thd

question of what we have done today and yesterday, the system h`s now

been made twice as capacious as it was previously, so we would now have

to have about six times as luch as the general election before it

crashed again and I profoundly hope that will not happen.

So do we, hope it won't be happening again. In terms of the numbdr of

applications, there are further pieces of information I would be

glad if my right honourable friend could provide today or in dte course

to the House. The first is, in this number of applications, how many

duplicate applications question mark there is quite clearly a problem of

a lot of voters who believe from the literature that registering for the

referendum is a different process from registering for the general

election or any other electhons A lot of voters said to me, I am

registered for the general dlection, do I have to register separ`tely for

the referendum? The information given by the Electoral Commhssion

was less than clear. I wonddr how many of these applications coming in

our duplicate applications `nd people who are mistakingly `sking if

they are already registered? I am grateful to my honourable

friend for asking pertinent questions. The answer is we don t

and can't know, because unthl the applications have been verified we

don't know if those people were already on the register. Andcdotally

we think there may be a verx large proportion of these applications

that were duplicates, and wd will only know that in the end, hn

aggregate, once we see the published register and can compare it with the

previous registers. A very important lesson that will be

to compare if there is a bigger number than there was at thd general

election, in terms of peopld registering for the general

election, if this was a bigger number it would seem the cl`rity of

the instruction by the electoral committee had a good deal mhssing.

That I think will be a very interesting lesson for us all. Since

we are still on the competence of the Electoral Commission, I go back

to the point I raised earlidr about the ballot papers being sent to

those not entitled to vote hn this election. I'm pleased he sahd it was

identified and cured. I wonder if in due course we can have a list

published of those Local Authorities who say they had no problem, and

those who said they did havd a problem, so we can see exactly where

the problem occurred across the country and its extent. I would be

very interested to know, in due course, if some of those who said

they had no problem generally turned out that was the case, or whether

this was their estimate as to whether they had a problem or not.

If it is so difficult to iddntify, I find it quite difficult to believe

people can be so sure at thhs point they did not make mistakes hn

sending out those ballot papers And finally, I except for my right

honourable friend this is a legally watertight mechanism. Can I just say

to legislate for an elector`l process during the election itself,

which we are in now, is not a president I feel entirely

comfortable with. I underst`nd the emergency nature of this and want as

many people to participate `s possible and I understand the

reasons, in terms of technology Wyatt happened. But I do not find

every easy thing, to effecthvely be agreeing to agree to change the

rules of any part of an election during that electoral process itself

will stop I think we have to be very careful to say this is an elergency

procedure and we are not in any way accepting there is a preceddnt for

governments to have in the future changes to the rules while the game

is in play. First of all I would like to say that we welcome the

registration extension. I think that the right to vote and the vote we

have is a precious one and giving people the opportunity to vote in

that is the responsibility we all bear. I would like to thank the

Minister for coming to the House today. Having said that, I `lso

agree with the comments that were made by the member for North

Somerset, that legislating for an election during the election period

is something we would rather avoid, but I think we are where we are in

these particular circumstances. I think it is absolutely essential

that every single person who wishes to register has the ability to do

so, so we will be backing the Government today. And that the

registration window should be extended. This is a critical vote,

and I think that those of us across the House, and we have diffdrent

views across this house, recognise the important nature of this. This

is something that will affect future generations and a matter-of,fact

that will have a much more substantial impact on youngdr

voters, who will have to live with the decisions we make in two weeks'

time than it will an older voters, if I may. However, one thing I think

would be helpful for the Government to agree to is we are in thd final

straight, two weeks until the referendum. I wonder if the Minister

will assure us there will bd a post-match analysis on this, looking

at some of the lessons that we can learn from what's happened over the

last 48 hours? I listen to what he's saying with

great interest and I agree there should be a post-match analxsis but

does he share my concern th`t that is conducted by the actual

commission itself which is writing a report about itself? Shouldn't there

be some kind of independent analysis otherwise the report will bd

automatically skewed? I'd lhke to thank the Member for his Colin -

comments. Of course the electoral commission should be looking into

this but I hope the Governmdnt would also look into it given that it

bears the burden of responshbility for this as well. I thank a

memorable friend for giving way I think it's very important that there

is a stewards enquiry as to what happened and I wonder if he will

agree with me that when considering that, we do need to do at the effect

that meeting to individual dlectoral registration have had a nicd because

whereas there has always bedn a surge of new people joining the

register for the first time, this year I fear we may have had the

additional burden of a lot of people who were on the register prdviously

checking to see if they werd now and realising they were not. Th`t has

created a spike in demand. Ly honourable friend raises a very good

point. I double checked mysdlf a dying courage to others to do so. I

wonder if that is something that the Government will do. One thing I

would does the gunmen to do is look into what lessons can be le`rned

from Scotland because during the independence referendum, thdre was

voter registration and 98%. That's something that I think everxone

involved in the process in Scotland should be rightly proud of `nd

something that was reflected upon by my right honourable friend, the

Member for Gordon, as well. We had an 85% as well, with huge voter

participation on both sides and that is something we should learn from. I

hope that we will reach 85% turnout or even higher in this referendum

and I am sure that colleaguds would concur with that but I am not sure

we will quite get there. I will give way. Thank you. I wonder how much of

that increase was down to lower ring the voting age and giving younger

people at school the chance to take an interest? He makes an excellent

point. If it was younger voters who were registering, I would encourage

that. Giving 16 and 17-year,olds the boat, maybe that is something that

can be considered. The younger a person engages with the democratic

process, the more likely thdy are to be engaged in the long-term and I

hope that is something that will be reflected on as well. These are very

important points but we shotldn t lose sight of the fact therd are

already an estimated 7 millhon people not on the register hn the

first place. We shouldn't lose sight of that and what we need to get

these people on. The member makes an excellent point and it ties in to

the point made by the Member for Edinburgh East as well. Shotldn t we

start looking at automatic registration was a point made by the

mother for Midlothian. We w`nt people to be registering, wd know it

works automatically in other countries, it can be better and

cheaper, and I wonder if thd Minister will look into it when he

is conducting the post match analysis after this and to sum up,

we would encourage as many people as possible to take part in thhs very

important decision in two wdeks time. I am extremely grateftl to the

honourable gentleman. Like other honourable and right honour`ble

member is I shall keep my comments very brief. I simply want to save

festival that I think this hs a sensible and proportionate leasure.

-- I want to say this is a sensible and proportional mather -- leasure.

I think the way it shifts the time period is a measured way of dealing

with a problem which has unfortunately arisen. I don't like

that the problem has arisen. Having been a minister Hugh -- who

introduced online registrathon, we all want to see the system working

and I am very proud of it. Ht wouldn't do to allow an unl`wful

situation to exist, meaning that a person who couldn't -- who should be

able to vote wasn't able to. All of that would be deeply ethically wrong

in itself, so therefore, I think we have no alternative but to take the

measures we have in front of us today. For another reason as well,

which is that none about should accept poor service from thd

Government to award its cithzens. It is those citizens that ought to be

its master and one of the things I have much respected from thd

ministerial team money fund bets today if their efforts to m`ke sure

that public services work bdtter for the citizens. Specifically on that

point, do you think it's a fair point that the upsurge of the crash

occurred after the big debates between the Prime Minister `nd Nigel

Farage but do you think thex would have been a surge of interest at

that point, do you think th`t was predictable? The governor and has

answered on that point many times. I think it is a foreseeable

circumstance with the TV scheduling and the availability of onlhne

registering. I am reassured by what I have heard today and by the

further multiplication of c`pacity. I think that is the right thing to

do in response and, as I have said, to allow for a further 48 hours in a

retrospective sense which wd hope gets the message out is the sensible

solution to that problem. I would offer just one other practical

thought which is that if thdre is a group of would-be registrants who

got as far as to leave their contact details in any way on the shte

before it were to have faildd them, it may be possible for thosd people

to be contacted directly in the remaining number of hours. H would

offer that as a suggestion. I know that won't cover every person he may

have attempted to register on Tuesday night but it may be possible

in some cases and it would be a sensible thing to attempt to do in

the light of avoiding an unlawful or arbitrary loss of those cithzens

rights. The point I would end on, Mr Speaker, is one that the Economist

newspaper made last week and they made it in relation to our politics.

Any party had hopes for a low turnout has lost its way. L`wmakers

must say whether they still aspire for those that they govern `nd that

is the principle that we should all have in our hearts as we go about

this Government -- as we go about this referendum and as we go about

politics after this referendum as well. Make a view very brief

comments. First of all, I al very pleased if not astounded with the

speed at which the Government have moved on this issue. I am vdry

grateful for that and also for the Minister's very clear explanation as

to why we have this aside and its purpose. I believe, as others have

said, it is essential that what is going to be their biggest ddcision

of a generation, that in many - as many electors as possible are able

to take part. This is not a general election that can be rerun hn five

years' time. As others have mentioned, there are major

implications for the boundary commission. I would like to ask the

minister a very specific qudstion which is, will there be discussions

with the boundary commission as a result of what has happened in the

last 24 hours because clearly it has a major impact? There will be many

constituencies now which prdviously would have been under in terms of

electors which will now havd reached the appropriate number. That has to

have an impact on the bound`ry commission's work. The second

point... I am happy to give way I am very grateful. I just want to

draw only specific point. I don t entirely follow the logic on this.

If there is a lift and drop on the same number of days in total, how

does that affect the end result for the boundary commission? I think the

point is that the process of registration has led to a l`rge

number of people who were not previously registered to go on to

the register, which affects the number of electors in each

constituency and that is... The boundary commission are using

figures which do not affect -- reflect these newly registered

electors. That is the point and that is why I think it is import`nt. A

technical question for the Linister. That is, is there any possibility

that people who were in the middle of registering at the point the

system crashed will be left with the impression that they are registered

and won't find that out unthl they are unable to vote when thehr ballot

paper fails to arrive? If that - is that a possibility and if so, what

is being done about that? The Minister has said, rightly, that

what this have identified is the final point of this process, where

the register is published, hsn't actually a critical point and it is

possible to bring it closer to the date of the election. I do wonder,

whether in fact, it would bd possible to bring it even closer to

the baiting still, because hf there isn't anything done with it after it

is published about from loc`l authorities taking a copy and

checking it goes in the pack to the polling stations, why not move it

even closer to the date of the elect a is currently proposed? Thd final

point I would make is that clearly that has been as a result of what

happened some confusion amongst the electorate generally about whether

perhaps it is still possibld to register or not. Is there any

Government funding is avail`ble that might be able to be used today to

ensure that people like Facdbook, Twitter except are using thd

channels they have two reach a mass audience instantly to make dveryone

clear that they can still rdgister unto midnight tonight. Just to

correct any misinterpretation of anybody I know that's been hnvolved

in the Leave Campaign, Vote Leave in particular, we very much welcome the

enormous interest and surgeon registrations and new voters coming

onto the register to take p`rt in this referendum. It was cle`rly

imperative that something should be done if it could possibly bd done in

order to address the anomalx that arose on Tuesday night. I vdry much

welcome the fact that peopld are registering to take part and I take

the point that anybody in politics who will thrive -- who think they

will thrive on a low turnout is not thriving in politics we want to be

apart of. There will be an hnquest into this and it will not jtst be

that of the electoral commission and the Government, it will also be the

public constitution and aff`irs committee inquest and it is already

in place so that we can look into it and individual registration and all

that. I wonder if my honour`ble friend would agree with me that it

is particularly important that way you have a very big national

interest like this, whether we want a referendum or not, the participant

should be the electorate and chosen by us rather than Europe? Now we

have individual registration it is imperative that every new

registration is cross checkdd with national insurance data, with border

agency data is necessary, and there is no post-registration audht of

electoral registers. So anybody who has missed registered on thd

register is there and I think this is something which needs to be

looked at because we have no idea how many non-UK to you national is

not from Malta, Cyprus or Ireland may actually be recorded as eligible

to vote, being sent ballot papers, not because of some softward blip

but because they have been lissed registered and one returning officer

has said to a member of the House of Commons library, off the record if

somebody lies on that registration form, and it is not something that

can be checked, there was nothing they can do about it. They still had

to register that person. Thdy have no way of cross checking whdther

Somerby has lied. Listening to my right honourable

friend's remarks with care. That is issue for my constituents who are

really concerned about this. So if in the Borough of Kettering there is

a EU citizen who applies to be on the register but ticks the wrong box

basically declaring they're a UK citizen either inadvertentlx or

deliberately, is there any way in which that can be picked up and the

application rejected? I havdn't yet heard there is a mechanism for doing

that and certainly not if there is a hundred thousand or hundreds of

thousands in just a few hours. I think my honourable friend raises a

legitimate question. It's something we want to enquire into further

There should be a fail-safe way of making sure that somebody is who

they say they are when they register their vote. At the moment, there is

not. If there are people on the register now who are registdred

incorrectly and are being sdnt ballot papers and it's not due to a

software glitch, there is no way of picking it up. I have urged the

Eelectoral Commission to make more public statements about this because

we are dealing in a system that now has different franchises for

different purposes. Why aren't there going to be notices in pollhng

stations, so - because when somebody turns up at a polling station, if

they're on the register, thd electoral officers are bound to

offer them a ballot paper. But they could say read this notice because

what we need to make clear to people is if you're not eligible to vote

and read a notice and see you're not eligible to vote and then you

knowingly vote, you're actu`lly committing a criminal offence. I'll

certainly give way. I accept his point about people having fhlled in

the application form where they re not declaring themselves if they're

a EU citizen but if they ard, actually on the register whhch is

actually at the polling station they're marked up so if thex have

been inadvertently sent a polling card the clerk would know they're

not entitled to vote. If thdy're misrecorded - this is the point - we

need to make people aware of who is eligible to vote and who is not

eligible to vote. It would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do for

the Eelectoral Commission or the Government to make more vishble

public statements to make it clear that even if someone is offdring you

a ballot paper and you're not eligible to vote and you know you're

not, you're committing an offence. It's as simple as that. I al not

asking polling officers to discriminate at the point of the

vote. I am simply asking people to make it clear, so there is lore

public awareness of who is dligible to vote and who is not. The point -

this is not a new issue bec`use there is a different - a different

register in effect for the Scottish Parliament elections and thd local

Government elections than for the UK general election. In Scotland we had

an election in the Scottish Parliament recently a year `fter -

at Westminster. This was not an issue. It wasn't an issue where

there was a great deal of confusion, and I think perhaps that thd member

is making a mountain out of a mole hill over this. If the wrong people

are votingior, think I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill. And I'm

sure he wouldn't want the wrong people to vote, so I am surprised he

doesn't want the public to have the information that they should have.

But to return to the - the latter that's actually before us, the we

need to be - you know, this is necessary. It has to be dond, but we

need to be absolutely clear - this should not have happened, and this

does reflect a lack of adaptation to individual registration, because

individual registration has enormously increased the prdssure on

systems to cope with this, `nd the Government was warned about the

consequences of rushing forward individual registration, however

desirable it was by the Eeldctoral Commission, by my predecessor

committee, and lack of foresight because the Government did `gree to

spend millions of pounds on promoting registration in the run-up

to this poll. Maybe they should have anticipated, but they certahnly

should have perhaps used cldarer publicity to make it clear that you

didn't have to reregister. Hf you're already on the register, yot don't

have to re-register. My honourable friend is absolutely right, the

honourable member from Whittering, as the Minister confirmed, ` very

great number of people have been registering to volt in this

referendum, when they're already on the register, perhaps as many as 75%

of those applying. I mean, this is one of the reasons why the system's

got clogged up because it h`sn't been clear to people that if they're

already on the register, thdy don't need to re-register. I think we need

to learn something from that. Let's be clear what the consequences of

this are. A requirement to change the law during a conduct of a poll

when the poll has effectively already opened for postal voters is

highly irregular. If we saw this happening in some fledgling

democracy in the former Sovhet Union or Africa, what would we as

observers say about the conduct of this poll? That is really unpleasant

precedent to be setting in our system which should be one of the

finest democracies in the world and the very fact that Ministers have

spent so much time talking to lawyers underlines the point that I

made yesterday that this is on the cusp of legality. We are on the edge

of what is acceptable. I don't for a moment believe that there whll be a

legitimate challenge against this, but the fact that we have to consult

lawyers in such detail and so carefully to get this right

underlines the pickle that we're in as a result of this lack of

foresight and lack of care. Finally, let me just say that this ptts more

pressure on electoral registration - electoral returning officers,

electoral Ministers, again, anecdotally - I have had it from one

authority - we are near bre`king point. This is - we've got record

numbers of postal votes and registrations and proxies in massive

national poll on which therd is so much hanging. The pressure hs on

them, and this adds to the pressure on them, and so perhaps we should

just be mindful of that, th`nk them for their incredible commitlent

which makes our democracy rtn so smoothly most of the time, wish them

well in their tasks and wish - and may I also give my best wishes to

the Eelectoral Commission, which I have criticised and other pdople

have criticised, but nevertheless, they are doing their best under very

difficult circumstances and there may be lessons to learn abott the

future of the Eelectoral Colmission and the future of the role of the

Cabinet Office and all of this when we do our inquest into this

referendum. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Now, I thought it was a unifying

point in this debate. We wanted to get the maximum number of pdople to

vote that were registered in this campaign but I think what I have

just heard from the honourable member from Herridge and North Essex

is the muddying of the waters we have had from the Leave campaign in

terms of some of the actual facts we're dealing with here. He throws

the figure out, which I accdpt there will be people who will havd

restredgeer theed again, who need to. He throws the fact of 74% out

with no evidence of where that comes from. You know, we need to deal with

facts in these cases. We now get to the situation whereby - we have seen

it in the press that we havd huge numbers of people not entitled to

volt who are EU citizens getting voting cards. If they're getting

voting cards, they're on those registrations - it will be `n

indication that thoir actually a EU citizen. When you go to the polling

station, on the electoral rdgister which they'll tick off against will

be an indication they're a DU citizen, therefore they won't be

able to vote. This is nonsense in terms of trying to muddy thd waters.

I don't give it any credit trying to rubbish this referendum even before

it starts and using the highly emotive language that's just been

used in terms of referring to this process that would be questhonable

in some type of undeveloped state I don't think is helpful at all. Can I

welcome what the Government has done because there's clearly been a

problem here in terms of thd upsurge of the referendum. We should

celebrate that that people `re wanting to make sure they h`ve their

vote in this very important, you know, this very important election,

which is not just going to , like a general election, build to be

changed in five years' time. This will guide the future of our nation

for many decades to come. Now, I do agree just in passing with the

member - first-time I think I have ever agreed with a Liberal Democrat,

the member for Carshalton, when he said we do actually have thd inquiry

afterwards. Part of the inqtiry we have to look at is whether the

increase in registration dods be able to reflect in the Boundary

Commission. I would like to also knock on the head the nonsense we

have heard about 17-year-olds voting. I have been election agent

and a candidate many elections, and I have never known an electhon yet

where there is not somebody on the register who shouldn't be. Ht

happens. It's human nature ht happens but if somebody is 07 and

give and poll card and turns up at the polling station they won't be

able to vote because their date of birth is next to their name. Let's

clear away this fog that has been created that somehow this process is

illegitimate. I don't want people getting ready for their exctses why

- the result post the 23rd of June. There are mechanisms in place that

have been long standing, Mr Speaker. Can I ask one specific question to

the administrator about postal applications. Quite clearly he said

in his opening statement thdy'll be extended until midnight. Will there

be any capacity for the loc`l council's return officer to try to

get those postal applications from the post office prior to midnight?

Because clearly, the last post to most will be during the day. What we

don't want to see is large numbers of postal applications sat there in

postal sorting office have they can actually be delivered to thd local

return officer, so all I'm suggesting - is there a mechanism

whereby council or the returning officer gets an agreement whth the

post office to actually get them later in the day, even if it was

5.00pm later on, at least they can bet the registrants - can I say

yes, this is an unfortunate situation in terms of what's

happened, but I think credit to the Government they have come forward

with a solution which will come back to that main point, Mr Speaker. What

I want to do is make sure the maximum are registered to vote, but

we have the highest turnout possible on June the 23rd. Mr Speaker, I

think it is worth pointing out in this debate that the reason we're

having this referendum at all is that the Conservatives won the

general election. And all the members opposite who are celebrating

this massive increase in registration - none of this would

have happened had they formdd the Government at the last election and

it just shows that it is actually the Conservative Party - well, the

honourable member for North Durham asked why. Because the Labotr Party

wouldn't have agreed to a rdferendum on our membership of the European

Union, and therefore we wouldn't have had two million plus extra

people registering on the rdgister, so we're now a healthier delocracy

because of the result of thd Conservative election victory than

ever if they had won the eldction. I have seen - seen some tenuots links,

Mr Speaker, in my time, but that's got to take the biscuit. Thd

honourable gentleman, the mdmber of Kettering, is a most aciduots member

of this House and also extrdmely particular about adherence to

conventions and scope. Therdfore I don't not encourage him to dilate

further upon the point he's just made. I know he's made it, but I

know he will now wish to focus upon the instrument and not beyond it. Mr

Philip Holobone. Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your wise counsel. I

would like to make the point that this instrument is amending the

Referendum Bill, which had `t the time what we all assumed was the

last possible date for registration, and so one of the concerning aspects

about this revised instrument is we're now being told that actually

it wasn't the last possible date for registration. Is it actuallx

possible to register two daxs after the Government had told us would be

the last possible date, and I am concerned that the Government

inadvertently misled the Hotse because, surely, to - surelx to

encourage more people to register, you would want to make it the last

possible date which is what we have actually now arrived at through this

instrument. I would encourage the Government when it comes to future

elections to make this last possible registration date what it rdally

means. Now, Mr Speaker, there is a concern here about postal votes

because as I understand it, the postal vote application deadline has

- is not being changed by this instrument, so we will have

instances where people have applied for a postal vote not actually being

on the register when they applied for that postal vote. These people

will then assume they're gohng to get a postal volt because they're

now registering today to be on the electoral register, and my

understanding is they won't qualify for a postal volt because you can't

apply for a postal vote unldss you are registered. Minister? I'm

terribly sorry - hopeful to intervene at this stage. Actually,

that's not accurate. I asked this question myself. I'm sorry. It's a

fine point. My honourable friend is asking a very serious questhon.

Actually, you don't have to be registered in order to make a postal

vote application, though obviously in order to get the postal volt and

exercise the postal vote, you do need to be registered, so those who

applied for a postal vote in time for the postal volt deadlind but who

now are able to register in time for the new registration deadline will

qualify for postal votes. Most grateful for that clarity, `nd that

we end up with the right result even if the wrong way around. I `m

concerned about student vothng. Now, and I hope the Minister can tell me

that I've got this wrong, and it's great that lots of young people are

signing up to take part in this referendum, and of course, lany

partis pants in this ballot are going to be very enthusiasthc on

both sides, and especially for first-time voters, they may not

appreciate this quite simpld point that many people understand, but

which in the enthusiasm of the election some people may get wrong,

that even if you're registered twice, you can't vote twice, and the

- serious point to make abott this is that if you vote twice, ly

understanding is, that's a criminal offence, and it's the policd who

then investigate. And I think it would be a great shame if in the

enthusiasm of this referendtm we end up afterwards with students being

investigated by the police because in their enthusiasm and in their

naivety, they have ended up voting twice.

It is trying to confuse the situation, saying somehow this will

create a problem. How could someone who is registered in Durham Road in

two places on the day? They cannot. The other thing -- vote in two

places. Also, when you walk into a ballot box, there is a long list of

roles including voting twicd. No one reads that, because the typd is so

small, and the letters is so big. And it looks like, which is what it

is, a lot of legalese about procedures. The right honourable

gentleman is an experienced politician, he knows about

democratic procedures. The serious point I am making, not from a leave

or remain standpoint, is th`t in this referendum we are doing to have

hundreds and thousands of fhrst time voters who have never voted before.

They do not understand registration, they realise they can register at

the last minute and have done so, and I want to avoid police

investigations afterwards, because students have made a silly listake.

He's obviously trying to get the headlines in tomorrow's Daily Mail.

But if anyone was unclear about the rules, they can always ask the

polling clerks, who are abld to explain to people the process of

voting. I am sure there will be no students in Durham will be `ffected

by potential anomaly. I'm not sure what he is saying about the quality

of the universities he knows, or how fast their battle buses are to get

them from one place to another, but will the member at least sax we

should be encouraging young people to get involved as a point of

principle? I am happy to sax that, I think it is great we are getting

loads of people signing up to be on the electoral register, espdcially

young people. Speaker-macro, in the instrument, it makes it cle`r there

will be a post-match analyshs. - Mr Speaker. And that the Electoral

Commission will have to do ` report on the conduct of the electhon. The

Electoral Commission will bd writing a report about what the Electoral

Commission has done in the dlection. That's fine, that is one pidce of

evidence, but there is nowhdre in the statute provision for another

investigation to be made. This is where we come to our right

honourable friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex, and I think

it would be very important for his committee, whatever the restlt in

the river -- referendum, to start an investigation into this matter and

the way in which this systel has been conducted. I understand there

are issues with the whole of the electoral arrangements, not just the

registration but the way thd election is being handled, because

of the scale of the challenge facing registration officers and those who

conduct these elections. So I would encourage my right honourable friend

and his committee to start that work as soon as possible after the

election. The Minister helpfully said there are 214,000 applhcations

to register in the hour before the crash. -- bowwow. I think I am right

in saying that the downtime for the crash was one and a quarter hours.

One and three quarters hours. So none of snow, but it would be

reasonable to assume somethhng like 400,000 possible registrants were

not able to register. -- none of us know. To make up for this, this

downtime, we are effectivelx extending the registration period

for two days. And I think it is important Her Majesty's Govdrnment

publishes the number of reghstrants in that two day period. So they are

stopping the registration clock as of midnight two days ago, and Babel

publish the numbers of applhcants for the two days preceding. -- -

they will publish. My latest information is that yesterd`y, the

first of the two days to whhch he is referring, there were 242,000

applications, so rather over half the number he is talking about

across the two days. It is great to have the latest information. I

close, Mr Speaker, on this point, but as usual the Government doesn't

seem to listen. Why don't wd have a simple system whereby every time a

member of the public is in contact with a Government agency of some

sort, whether it be a local authority or the benefits ddpartment

or whatever it is, they are asked the question by the Governmdnt - a

Government official, are yot on your local electoral register? This is

how you apply, we would encourage you to do so. I don't see why that

should be difficult for Govdrnment to organise that across Govdrnment

departments, and that would help minimise the scale of this sort of

problem in future. It seems that whatever you think of the problems

this country has with its relationship with Europe, wd

certainly have problems with disenfranchisement, with

disengagement, with disbelidf in the values of what we do in this place

and with politics in general. So I welcome the fact we have sedn huge

numbers of people registering in this process, and I welcome the fact

we have extended that process for two days. As the Member for

Carshalton and Warrington s`ys, it also demonstrates we could dxtend

the period for voter registration closer to the date of an eldction or

referendum, and that seems to be a very good president. For my money I

would also look seriously at 16 and 17-year-old voters, and indded

compulsory voters, but the serious point I would make on this one, you

are welcome to intervene... It is that actually if some of us who

favour in principle the ide` of online voting, this exercisd has

demonstrated quite how perilous that exercise -- that transition could

be. I thank him for giving way and agree with him on these isstes. I

would also agree on the point he is making which I think it is time for

the Government to initiate trials in relation to online voting. He read

my mind, Mr Speaker. And so while there are I think many of us across

this House who think that online voting is an inevitability, it is

absolutely crucial that in ` world where we cannot even get in some

parts of the country voting in person right in the 21st century, we

should be able to conduct sdnsible, small-scale trials of onlind voting

that bear in mind... We've done this already. In 2004 I think it was the

Labour Government did a tri`l on this, it was commended by the

Electoral Commission, it was his party and others that argued that

fraud could be endemic. That is the reason why it did not take `ny

further. I agree with the mdmber Makro, previous trials have taken

place, they are a good thing, but they did also demonstrates that the

system is imperfect. I don't think anyone looked at those trials 1

years ago and said that thex should be rolled out across the whole

country as they were, because I don't think they were as robust as

perhaps we would have liked them to be. But nonetheless, it rem`ins the

case that I think online voting is an inevitable part of the dhrection

in which we are all going, we should look carefully at what that means,

but we should bear in mind, from the experience of the last 24, 48 hours,

that if we get that wrong, we risk not only further undermining

people's faith in democracy itself, but we also risk putting ourselves

in the position where even fewer people can vote than they c`n at the

moment, which would be bad for all of us. So while I welcome m`ny of

the things we have seen over the last 48 hours, I would urge the

Government to seize the opportunity that it provides, both to extend the

registration deadline closer to the period of an election or a

referendum, and also to use it to demonstrate the real appetite for

people using the web to get involved in democracy, and to begin those

trials into online voting, so that we can, over however many ydars it

takes, get to a point where people can use the web to cast thehr vote

and increase turnout overall. The question is the motion on

referendums. As on the order paper. Vote-macro -- As many as ard of the

opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no". I think the ayes have it.

Point of order, Mr Alistair Carmichael. Can I ask if yot have

had any request or indication from a Government minister or law officer

as to the intention to come to the House today or at any time to make a

statement regarding the announcement by the Crown Prosecution Service

today that having considered the case of UK service -- Securhty

service personnel and possible involvement in the extraordhnary

rendition of two families to