19/07/2016 House of Commons

Metro, there is not much more I can add to what I have previously said.

The Government is wanting to support transport infrastructure across the

country and are looking at `ll good products -- projects. We have had 20

topical questions and we must now move on. Urgent question. Elily

Thornberry. To as the secretary of state if he will make a statement on

recent departments in Turkex. May I thank the honourable lady vdry much

for applying for this questhon today. Members on both sides of the

House will have seen from events unfolding on their television

screens and the claim clear on Friday that a military uprising was

underway in Turkey. It was `n attempted coup which we condemn

unreservedly. This was ultilately unsuccessful and constitutional

order has been restored. However, 210 people have reportedly been

killed and some 1400 injured. I m sure the House will join me in

expressing our sympathies and condolences to the people of Turkey

on this tragic loss of life. Her Majesty's Government has bedn

closely engaged throughout the weekend. Foreign and Commonwealth

Office consular staff have worked tirelessly through said on Sunday to

support Bush and National is affected and they continue to do so.

We have received no reports of British casualties. Our advhce to

British nationals remains to monitor media reports and follow FCO travel

advice including through our Facebook and Twitter accounts. My

right honourable friend, thd Prime Minister, spoke to the Preshdent

last night and she expressed her condolences for the loss of life and

commended the bravery of thd Turkish people. The Prime Minister

underlined our support the turkey's Government and democratic

institutions stressing therd was no place for the military in politics.

The Prime Minister underlindd the importance of our corporation on

counterterrorism, migration, regional security and defence. My

right honourable friend, thd Foreign Secretary, was regularly updated by

officials as events unfolded. He visited the teams in the FCO's

crisis centre responding to Nice on Friday morning and then agahn the

turkey on Saturday morning. He has spoken to his Turkish countdrpart to

express our concern and how support the turkey's democratic Govdrnment

and its democratic instituthons and to urge calm and encourage `ll

parties to work to restore order quickly and in an inclusive way --

Turkey. Her Majesty's ambassador in Turkey has been in touch with his

Turkish counterparts. I spoke to him myself, to express our concdrn for

the welfare of embassy staff and I plan to visit Ankara tomorrow. The

Foreign Secretary effect -- attended the foreign affairs Council and

participated in a discussion of Turkey. There is a strong sdnse of

common purpose between us and our European partners. The forehgn

affairs Council has issued conclusions strongly condemning the

coup attempt. Welcoming the parties in support of turkey's democracy and

stressing the importance for the rule of law prevailing and hts

rejection of the death penalty. The Turkish Government now has the

opportunity to build on thehr strong domestic support they gathered in

response to the coup attempt. The measured and careful response will

sustain the unity of purposd which we have seen so far and which was so

clearly evident on the stredts of Istanbul and Ankara. The UK stands

ready to assist Turkey, to take forward the reforms to which it has

committed itself and to help the democratically elected Government to

restore order in a way that reflects and supports the rule of law. I

thank the honourable gentlelan. Can I welcome him to his new position.

It is unfortunate that he and his team have had to be brought to this

house and did not think it right to make a statement themselves. I hope

all mail --... It is a vagud political and strategic importance

to the world. It straddles ` divide with eight countries. It has

important minorities partictlarly Kurds and Armenians. Half a million

people of Turkish or Kurdish descent live in the UK and they are

desperately worried about their families. With 2 million visitors a

year, Turkey is greatly lovdd and our two countries cannot be

separated. How many British citizens have been arrested and what support

is being provided to them? What is the advice the British nationals in

Turkey and those who booked travel arrangements. On Friday we saw

Turkish people whether they supported the Government or not

supporting democracy and making a clear statement that ministry -

military coup's have a placd in democracy. 9000 police officers

dismissed, third of the gendrals dismissed, 7500 people arrested

including the most senior jtdges in the country and the death pdnalty

being introduced. What reassurances has he had that there would be fair

trials for accused of complhcity? Was the firing -- Foreign Office

taken by surprise by this coup? What will happen to this vital ally? What

will happen next? It is vit`l we work together to ensure that Turkey

has a secure foundation of democracy, freedom of speech and

human rights into the futurd. May I thank her for her warm welcome to me

at least. I would point out that the noble Baroness who is also `

Minister of State at the Foreign Office when I last spoke to her was

a woman. From a personal pohnt of view, can I point out that H am also

able to add to the spectrum of choice she would like to sed in our

ministerial team. I am not `ware of any... I would say to the honourable

gentleman that he should be aware of how I had. I am not aware of any UK

citizens who have been arrested but that is a very, very serious

objective for us to pursue `nd find out and make sure that remahns the

case. I think the whole house will agree with your point about the

importance of wanting to sed the process of law upheld for any trials

should they happen to be fahr and to make sure the highest princhples of

democratic standards are upheld for which one needs a functional and

independent judiciary. I will be discussing all these matters when I

go to Ankara tomorrow and I hope that in the reaction they dhsplay to

this coup attempt that Turkdy will be able to remain a very important

member of Nato and a partner to other countries within Europe and in

answer to her straightforward question about whether we wdre taken

by surprise, yes, I am not sure there was anybody that wasn't. The

Prime Minister appears not have mentioned the arrest of 3000 members

of the judiciary in her compensation with the Turkish President. It seems

a strange way to uphold the rule of law and the Independent is reporting

that Nato's leadership has lade it clear commitment to uphold democracy

including tolerating divershty is one of the four requirements for

members of the alliance. Is that the position of Her Majesty's

Government? Secretary Kerry made similar comments yesterday.

Retaining an independent judiciary which will require judges working to

apply the process of law is essential if we are to see the

standards we wish to see upheld in Turkey. I know what the honourable

gentleman says about Nato. Turkey does remain an important ally within

Nato and am valued UK partndr. We encourage Turkey to maintain its

democratic institutions and the rule of law as a fundamental part of

Nato's Value agenda. Can I welcome the right honourable gentlelan to

his place in a late flowering of his ministerial career. We suspdct he

might well be at the dispatch box on many occasions substitution for the

absent Foreign Secretary. The Foreign Secretary advocated an

immediate Turkey succession to the European Union, an argument he was

later to justify a Brexit. Can we be assured that there will be no such

ambiguity in the messages which now go to Turkey? Ten responsible

Government can support a military coup against a democratic

Government, no democratic Government engages in the progression of Civil

Liberties like the Kurds, imprisonment of thousands of people,

the suspension of parliamentary rights, the introduction of the

death penalty and will he m`ke it clear to President Erdogan, it is

not just the European Union mentorship at risk from that course

of action that Nato membership as well?

I am very grateful for his description of me. I never saw

myself as a hardy perennial. Can I also make it clear to the House that

my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, who has been

described as accident is working very furiously, having been to

Brussels already. He is due to go to Washington and meeting forehgn

officials today for meetings on Syria and Yemen. This is ill judged

for him to criticise him for getting me to answer this urgent qudstion

today. Nonetheless, I agree with him that we... I also have a job to and

I hope I am doing it satisf`ctory in the House. When it comes to Turkey's

session, this is clearly a very very long way off and it is to soon

after events to make long-tdrm judgments about it. Some might think

this is less than a matter of the UK than it was before the 23rd of June.

My right honourable friend lay know that I have 41 students frol my

constituency got up at the `irport as well as seven staff. Thanks to

the leadership of the headtdacher and senior member of staff Sue

Bailey who showed excellent and responsible leadership in

extraordinary difficult circumstances. All 48 of thdm were

able to leave the following morning and head down to south Africa, where

the school is twinned. Can H threw my right honourable friend Peter

Bute to the outstanding service the Foreign Office provided to ly

constituents and to Matt Jordan E official who was in the airport at

the time and gave consular services to my constituents in a truly

outstanding way. I know my right honourable friend is always fully on

top of anything that affects his constituents in Solihull and I know

on this particular matter hd was closely in touch with them `nd I

completely share with him hhs commendation of the initiathve and

leadership. I beg your pardon. It is very important that I get mx

geography right, not just in the United Kingdom! I think what the

teachers did was commendabld and the natural thing to do is for the

Foreign Office to send people to the airport which is a natural hub in

the response of a sudden outbreak of concern, like this. I am full of

praise that the staff reactdd so promptly and with such inithative to

this sudden and unexpected lilitary uprising. Thank you. Can I tell the

minister that yesterday my honourable friend a member let with

the chairman of the British Federation and the raised ddep

concerns about the tensions in the Kurdish populated neighbourhoods due

to attacks and demonstrations by April President Erdogan supporters.

Many of my constituents havd frightening reports from frhends and

family in Turkey who feel they are being targeted. Will the Minister

impress upon President Erdogan and two Riverview meets tomorrow when he

goes to Turkey, the need to ensure the safety and protection of all

citizens, especially ethnic and religious minorities who fedl very

vulnerable at the moment -- who ever he meets. I appreciate the concerns

and it is important new leadership of Turkey includes everybodx, all

its citizens in the climate of human rights and fair treatment in that

country. Michael Gaul. Can H warmly welcome my right honourable friend

to his position. He has diplomatic and business experience and will add

strength to a formidable Foreign Office team. President Erdogan used

social media in the difficult hours after the coup attempt was launched

to rally the Turkish people against this legal to Iraq illegal `ttempt

to seize power. In the past it has not allowed social media and

critical of press media. Will he take this opportunity to ensure

President Erdogan appreciatd press freedom and beat of speech hs one of

the that those behind this to want to crush and he should uphold. I

thank him for his comments of my appointment. He is right, freedom of

speech and the media are essential to the proper working of anx

democracy and any country. He is quite right that the use of social

media on this occasion did prove very useful for quelling thd

uprising and the irony of what you said is not lost on the people.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. Some of us have always been sceptical `bout the

suitability of Turkey as a safe country that refugees could be

returned under the EU deal. Can he confirm that EU deal is unddr review

and will he press upon the Turkish Government that if its conthnuation,

including the many advantagds they stand to go to Turkish designs under

it will be judged according to their response and particular response to

human rights? I see that thd UK is committed to the successful

implementation of the bill, which I think he was referring to. We see no

indications that the treatmdnt of refugees in Turkey has been affected

by these recent events. We will continue to monitor developlents

closely, but we do want to see this deal to continue to work properly.

May I congratulate my right honourable friend on his return to

the front bench any role in which he brings considerable expertise and

experience. While members h`ve focused on the butt girl

implications and implications for EU nationals of the events -- political

implications, the staff in @nkara and Istanbul have played and

continue to play is huge role in managing the implications of those

events. Can he update the House on the safety of our consulate staff? I

am grateful and I think all of our staff in Ankara and in stand built

will be very grateful to hil for raising this particular tophc. One

of the main reasons I wish to visit Ankara tomorrow is to reasstre the

staff in the foreign Commonwealth office. They had a shocking and

unpleasant experience we're suddenly out of the car came jet, shooting,

explosions and very near thd embassy. Some of our staff were

separated from their childrdn and for this to happen so suddenly and

in such circumstances is a very dramatic experience. I conshder it

very important as a minister to have a Judy of care and it is my top

priority to do that when I go to Ankara tomorrow. -- duty of care.

There are still questions about the origins of the attempted cotp which

took place last Friday evenhng. Is it not encouraging that opposition

parties, however critical the are of the Turkish president, the `re

critical and made it clear they were totally opposed to any military

dictatorship and military Government is not the answer to Turkey's

problems. Would it not also be useful if the Government made it

clear here to the Turkish authorities and particularlx, Mr

Speaker, to the Turkish president of the fears which affect the Turkish

Government would use what occurred on Friday as a means of further

oppression on people know wd involved in the coup. It is time to

start -- 2700 judges have bden arrested. How could they have been

directly or indirectly involved I say to the honourable gentldman he

is not entirely clear exactly who was behind the attempt. -- ht is not

clear. We do not want to spdculate beyond that. Can I make it `lso

clear to the House that, as the Prime Minister herself said

yesterday, she called for the fool observance of Turkey's

constitutional order and stressed the importance of the rule of law

prevailing in the wake of this field to. Everything must be done to

provide -- avoid further violence and we are watching very closely to

see that due process is applied in Turkex. Can I

express solidarity on behalf of my constituents on this hot little time

for Turkish people. What -- difficult time. What is the

Ministers understanding of... I think, Mr Speaker, it is too early

to say it but it is clear a name has been in the spotlight and Ttrkey has

applied for his extradition to the US. That is a matter for Turkey and

the United States. It is important to understand people living in the

UK who may have friends and family in Turkey will have concerns and we

also need to issue reassurance to them that the Government is taking a

proper interest in what was happening and is fully engaged to

ensure calm will prevail. The Minister has rightly stressdd the

importance of Turkey as a significant need to ally. C`n he

indicate what attempt can bd made through the institutions of the Nato

alliance to make it clear to the Turkish Government the democratic

norms and adherence to the rule of law must be upheld? I imagine pretty

well every Nato country would have been in touch and we want to make

sure the conduct of the Turkish Government be compatible with the

Nato. Nato has their own requirements, to which we wdnt to

see Turkey Philly at here. @s a member of the Council of Europe I

was in touch with Turkish MPs over the weekend. Turkey plays a vital

role in the Council of Europe. What support is the UK Government going

to give to Turkish MPs to hdlp them through this crisis? I think that is

difficult to say at this early stage. I hope that our clear voice

has been heard and one of the things we have rightly said, as thd

honourable gentleman said, we fully welcome that all of the parties in

have joined together and made it clear they condemn the coup and want

democratic to prevail. That echoes our own thoughts and I hope our

influence as diplomats can continue to encourage Turkey to step in that

direction. I warmly congrattlate the Minister on his resurrection in all

his glory and adversity. I'l glad he referred to consulate staff in

particular. In 2003 the consulate general was murdered as a rdsult of

a terrorist attack in Istanbul. Can I ask him, it has been our

long-standing policy to bring Turkey into the European family of nations,

whether within the European union or broadly speaking through Nato as

well. To make sure they facd west as much, if not more, as the f`ce east

towards Russia and Iran. With us leaving the European Union, how can

we make sure we enhance and strengthen that process of bringing

Turkey and pro-European Turkish politicians to face west? The

Minister of State and I share shortness. Which can also bd

translated as brevity. I appreciate it. May I just commend the right

honourable gentleman for thd reputation he enjoys as the previous

Foreign Office minister for the concern he always showed to those

who work in the foreign Comlonwealth office, often in very difficult

circumstances. We will have in the future bilateral opportunithes with

Turkey and notwithstanding our imminent departure from the EU, I

think anyway in which Turkex can replicate the standards we wish to

see in other democratic countries, is something that will help them

achieve exactly the Objective-C has explained. As my right honotrable

said, we have an important relationship with Turkey, including

our commitment to over a qu`rter of million in aid to support the

refugees living there. Will the Government use our relationship with

Turkey to exert pressure on President Erdogan, because he must

not use it to to leakage legitimise a

I share her concern. Turkey has taken an enormous amount of refugees

and we should count -- thank them for that. In wanting to see a

reaction to this failed coup that does not lead to unacceptable

consequences is of course exactly what we as a Government and I think

everybody in this house would very strongly urge. Can I take this

opportunity to congratulate the minister on his appointments.

President Erdogan has refusdd to rule out the return of the death

penalty to Turkey as a response to this event. Can I ask the mhnister

what discussions he has had or intends to have with the Turkish

Government to make clear th`t such a change of heart will be regressive

and very wrong? I'm grateful to the honourable lady for her comlents. I

on this recreation agree with her. It is a very -- it is the vhew of

Her Majesty's Government th`t we disagree with the death pen`lty It

would be a deeply retrogradd step which would cause incalculable

damage to the standing of Ttrkey just at a time when it is ilportant

to embrace them within the world community and not see them become

isolated from it. Can I welcome the friends to the front bench. We are

talking about a repressive regime and it has arrested thousands. Does

he share my concern about the condition of these men and women and

make sure their human rights are respected? I can assure the

honourable friend that I will not be -- that I would be saying what I

think should happen. The proper process of law will form a very

large part of what we would urge upon the Government of Turkdy. I'm

glad to hear the minister t`lk about the importance of the rule of law

and human rights. The last time I was in Turkey, I went for the into

Parliamentary union to get ten members of Parliament who h`ve been

imprisoned out of jail. I al glad to say that was done. Many werd from

the south-east of Turkey and as the Minister knows, the situation in

Kurdistan, south-east Turkex, is dire. The conditions there `re

appalling. The military shotld be reined back there and human rights

need to be emphasised there. We have concerns for the parliament`rians

given the attack on the Turkish parliament and I'm sure the Minister

will on behalf of this housd, convey our concerns for them and the hope

that they continue this democracy. The right honourable lady

understands the region extrdmely well and has a long-standing

reputation for defending hulan rights and Kurdistan which has an

effect on Turkey. I will convey her thoughts and I thought it is

important to make sure that all of the things we have been talking

about in terms of human rights are conveyed to the Turkish Govdrnment

in what is a very complicatdd region with some acute and difficult

pressures to handle. May I welcome the Minister to his role and say I

have confidence in his abilhty to and questions on this house in many

occasions when the Foreign Secretary will be promoting Britain's

interests abroad which is what his job is to do. Can I as the

Government to reiterate agahn that our commitment to democracy in

Turkey is tied in with our commitment to women's rights, gay

rights and the rights of other political and religious minorities

in Turkey who may be friend at the moment? He is right in making the

comment about the hard work of the Foreign Secretary and what he has

said in his list of importance is something we could apply to any

country in the world and it includes Turkey. Could I congratulatd the

honourable gentleman for behng one of the House's great comeback kings.

He will be able to keep the Secretary of State on the straight

and narrow. Does he recognise the concern in my constituency which has

the largest Turkish speaking population in the country, that the

way the West behaved to President Erdogan is similar to the w`y we

behaved to Mubarak? Putting Syrians into Kurdish areas to dilutdd the

Kurdish influence in this country cannot be the right way. Will he be

clear on the way this man treats the Kurdish majority in his country I

am very happy, given the Turkish population, to offer him a

face-to-face meeting with md to talk all these issues through because we

do share the same value system and I think we are going to have to think

about these problems to solve with a collapsed Syria, terrorist pressure

on Turkey. It is not free of such pressures and has to work ott how to

handle them. We have to appreciate that this is a complicated hssue and

I would welcome him through the door of my office to discuss these issues

in person. I very much welcome the Minister to his post and I know he

will do a brilliant job. I welcome his statement in supporting the

democratically elected Government in Turkey. The international community

in the past supported milit`ry Government in Pakistan and the

general in Egypt. Is it the position of the UK Government to support

democratically elected governments? I say we support democracy `nd all

of the values and rights th`t go with any properly functioning

democratic state. It is the reality of the world that any country is not

perfect. I hope we can use our diplomatic pressure to improve

countries and make them unddrstand what world pressure really hs and

you, Mr Speaker, were making a comment about shortness and I hope

it means I am able to punch above my weight. Indeed. The Turkish

Government has put in oppressive measures to people in eastern

Anatolia and including the unwarranted arrests of lawydrs,

politicians of journalists, members of the public and leading to the

death of many civilians, wolen and children. Will the Minister impasse

on the Turkish Government when he sees them tomorrow, that thhs failed

coup should not be used as ` pretext for further oppression of pdople who

are Democrats? I hope I said that in my opening remarks. The failed

uprising must not be used to have perverse consequences along the

lines the honourable gentlelan has exchanged -- explained. When it

comes to terrorist acts, thd Turkish Government has a right to ddfend

itself against those who wotld attack them. I welcome my honourable

friend to the front bench. We understand that the arrest of

thousands of judges is very difficult to characterise as being a

proportionate response to an act however outrageous and that Turkey's

membership of the Council of Europe must hang in the balance if it does

not respect the independencd and judiciary? He is pointing ott the

potential consequences of stch courses of action in which ht is too

early to form a judgment at the moment. It is true to say that in

order to have a functioning judiciary, you need judges `nd we

look forward to seeing if there is a functioning judiciary and

independent judiciary that can properly apply the rule of law. I

also welcome the Minister to his place. EU Commissioner has dxpressed

concern that President Erdogan had a list of enemies. This suggested

Turkey's response is predic`ted on mirrors that the trend of

suppression of speech, Civil Liberties, putting down polhtical

opponents and the brutal war on the Kurds in recent years. When the

Minister impress some President Erdogan Leopoldo of human rhghts and

the rule of law is important? Yes, I will. Three days after this

attempted coup, it is inevitable there will be lots of speculative

judgments about what was pl`nned, preplanned, whether there w`s a

previous list and things like that. It is impossible to know, which is

one of the reasons I look forward to visiting but when it comes to human

rights and equal and proper treatment of all citizens in Turkey,

that is something for which we will speak out very strongly indded. I

welcome my right honourable friend to his front position and hd brings

experience and intellect and will serve the country well. The Nato

Parliamentary Assembly annu`l session is due to take placd in

Istanbul this November. Would he agree with me that unless the

security situation becomes untenable, that this should go ahead

in Istanbul because despite the difficulties that may be he`ding

where Turkey is heading, will be far better to stay that from st`ying in

organisations like Nato rather than excelling them? May I commend my

honourable friend for what he has said. One of the most important ways

in which Turkey can be engaged and persuaded is through the form of

Nato. We wish Turkey to rem`in a fall and compliant member of Nato

and by that meeting, continting as my honourable friend suggests, I

would hope it will provide ` powerful programme -- platform for

bringing the positive developments we wish to see. Turkey is ddmocratic

but elections have shown it has become authoritarian. How concerned

is he that President erred `gain will use this coup as a blank cheque

to go against any or all of his opponents and given the fact that

the UK is leaving the Europdan Union, we should be concern that

Turkey gets its wishes and becomes a member. If the death penaltx is

introduced, canny make it ldd to President Erdogan on his visit to

mark that it will negate anx ambitions they have in that

direction? If Turkey were to reintroduce the death penalty, it

would be disqualifying itself from membership or future membership of

the EU. In that sense, it would be a self-defeating act and against the

objective he has described off potentially than joining thd EU In

terms of the other questions he asked, I largely answered them in

the questions that have alrdady been put to me. Can I congratulate my

right honourable friend and his colleagues are appointments. Turkey

is a major Nato ally and partner. How is it then that we appe`r to

have been completely blindshded by this military coup and what can be

done with our partners to ilprove their situation awareness? Hn a

troubled country with presstres of that sort, when their own Government

are completely blindsided, ht is probably not surprising that we were

unaware that this was going to happen. I would put it to mx

honourable friend that therd may have been nobody across the world,

whatever the scope of intelligence, who had firmly predicted th`t this

was going to happen on Frid`y night. I know the Minister will impress on

President Erdogan how important it is that regardless of how sdrious an

offence and risk accused of committing, the most serious to --

alleged offence is to get a fair trial. What practical help will he

be offering to the Turkish Government to make sure anyone who

has been arrested and is gohng to be put on trial gets a fair trhal in

accordance with the proper rule of law? The most practical influence we

can have on this is to join with like-minded countries and m`ke our

views very clear collectively, be it through the EU or other fortms which

joined together countries lhke our allies in the US. I think the

collective and singular voice calling for the upholding of the

rule of law and the proper functioning of a democratic state is

what we can most effectivelx do at this early stage. The point about

Nato has already been made. The long-term objective of them wishing

to join the EU has already been made and I hope that bilateral

discussions, the likes of which I hope to have tomorrow, will also

impress on them exactly the point the honourable gentleman has put the

House. Can I also congratul`te the Minister on his appointment. Could I

ask him to say a little bit more about the fact that we know the

Kurdish people have had hum`n rights abuses increasing over time but also

play such an important role in the fight against Daesh and well let --

whether the Minister will bd pointing that out in his

conversations tomorrow and what more he will be saying about that? The

honourable lady has raised ` very important point because the UK and

Turkey work in close partnership to stop extremist travellers from

reaching Iraq and Syria, involving practical cooperation betwedn our

police and security forces. We want this to continue, we hope it will

continue and we stand ready to help them in any way we can during this

difficult period. The Minister referred to thd order

being restored, but we know that President Erdogan hand that is a

dark concept as the experience of religious, ethnic and regional,

journalists and human rights activists show. If the Government is

going to communicate strongly to the Government that this coup should not

be used for a carnival of regression, will he reinforce that

by direct engagement with the democratic opposition in Turkey and

with rights activists there as well? It's the policy of the Unitdd

Kingdom engage across all p`rties within Turkey. I think you should be

aware of the EU foreign aff`irs Council statement yesterday, which

condemned the coup and it wdlcomed the common position of all of the

Buttercup parties in support of Turkey's democracy. -- Turkdy

parties. One of the aforementioned ironies of this situation is Foreign

Secretary published a poem `bout President Erdogan. That is the glory

of our democracy but is it hs serious point if someone published a

similar poll in Turkey, thex might be subject to arrest. What hs the

Government going to do to ensure free speech is preserved, even in

the situation? I think exactly as I have been explaining in the course

of what is nearly an hour, Lr Speaker. We have two apply the

maximum diplomatic pressure we can, both bilaterally and multil`terally.

That is something we will continue to do and it is also about

relationships and persuasion and I want is to use the Foreign

Secretary, but I happened as -- and happy to say we are getting an

extremely well. Many thanks, Mr Speaker. Warm congratulations to the

Minister on his elevated role. What discussions has a had with

colleagues on the Department for International Development to ensure

the safety provisions for rdfugees, including humanity aid arrangements?

We speak regularly to the Mhnisters. I have not personally had any direct

conversations as I have onlx been on the drop of 48 hours. Prompted by

the wisdom of the honourabld lady, may I ensure her I will do so at the

earliest opportunity. Thank you Can I also congratulate the honourable

gentleman and thank you for your statement. There is much concern

over human rights abuses before the coup. In the recent coup thdre has

been attacks on Christian churches. Can I ask the Minister to bring the

attention of Christians and ethnic minorities and the attacks on their

properties and person in Turkey Mr Speaker, we strongly encour`ge

Turkey to continue to work towards the full protection of fund`mental

rights, especially in the areas of minority rights, freedom of religion

and freedom of expression. We will continue to do so and I fully take

on board the point the honotrable gentleman has made about Christians

in Turkey and needing to protect them. Thank you. Can I also add to

my warm congratulations on his appointment and express my hope he

will bring an enlightened perspective to some aspects of our

foreign policy. At 4:30pm today I was due to meet a member of the

Turkish parliament of Istanbul and the social democratic opposhtion

party. Obviously, he has bedn unable to make that meeting but he has told

me his extreme concern that many members of that party I now being

rounded up and detained by the Turkish authorities, having nothing

whatsoever with this attempted to. Can I ask him to make it cldar to

President Erdogan and the atthority is that this country will not

tolerate the repression of Democratic parties in their country,

whose only misdemeanour is to criticise the Government. The

honourable gentleman speaks very passionately and forcefully on this.

I fully understand what he hs saying and that is why our ambassador and

all of our Embassy team are watching very closely exactly what is

happening to democratic parties and we are engaging across the whole

spectrum of political involvement, to make sure we know exactlx what is

going on and we can make our voice heard accordingly. A point of order.

During an urgent question it was implied by the Tory benches that the

Foreign Secretary was abroad representing this country's

interests. Yes, it was. Is ht possible we could fit a loc`tional

device to the Foreign Secretary a Boris Eakin, which would tell us

when he is available to join us here in the Chamber. -- Deacon. H am

about to say two things, first, I have no great enthusiast for over

zealous surveillance. Secondly, within who soever competent the

matter might fall, it is not a prerogative of the chair, btt I have

a sense and I am sure he want to exception to me saying this but on

this occasion his enquiry w`s substantially rhetorical and he was

more interested in what he had to say to me then in anything H might

have to say to him. Point of order from the man in the cream stit.

Could you advise me how I m`y be able to put on record that the House

has been brilliantly served in the Minister at the dispatch box

answering the questions. Thd honourable gentleman is in some

danger of rising in the House's leak table of colleagues who specialise

in complementary remarks. There is a fine line between being

complementary and being Orientalists. -- may I suggdst he

might have a word with his right honourable friend of the dangers of

overindulgence in that regard. We will leave it there for tod`y.

Order. Can I thank all colldagues were taking part and very shncerely

can I thank the right honourable gentleman for attending so

courteously and with such good humour from the enquiries of

colleagues from across this house. Ten minute rule Motion. Thank you,

Mr Speaker. I beg to move that leave be given to bring in a bill to

require the Revenue and Customs to record income tax revenue whether PE

is holding a conscientious objection to spending on defence purposes and

reports to Parliament. For the Treasury to take account of what

proportions such self certification incomes black incomes in applying

estimates. The central purpose of this bill is to give taxpaydrs who

have a conscientious objecthon to war, the right to direct a

non-military security fund, the proportion of their taxes which

would otherwise be spent on military purposes. Mr Speaker, 100 ydars ago

during the height of World War I, Britain became the first cotntry in

the world to make the legal right of conscientious objection avahlable to

all British subjects. In 1960 military service act simmer till

years they claimed the right for men to die for their country, whilst

also granted the right of conscientious objection in Britain

for the first time thousands of men, including my grand fathers

registered as objecting on the grounds of conscience. Some

conscientious objectors, like my grandfathers, took up alternative

services like driving ambul`nces. Others thought they could t`ke no

part in any activity connected to the war and they were imprisoned.

What linked them all was absolute determination to be true to their

despite marginalisation. Since 916, the rights of conscientious

objection has been recognisdd in every significant international

treaty. The UN human rights, the UN declaration of human rights and the

British Human Rights Act, the all testify that everyone has the right

to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. Mr Speaker, the past

100 years has seen immense progress in the democratisation of w`r.

Moderate walls are not alwaxs fought with conscript armies but rdly on

high-tech weapons. Security is supposedly maintained with the

ideology of deterrence. In short, war is waged with money, rather than

manpower and funded by UK t`xpayers. Yesterday this parliament voted to

support the nuclear deterrent at the cost of ?30 billion. The law as it

stands prevents many in acthng in accordance with their own conscience

as their tax money is being spent in two on armed conflict which they

object to. Some equate paying with doing it themselves. These few

thousand people who are facdd with two options, either keeping the

income below the taxable level as a lady I met outside has done all her

working life. Alternatively, they can't withhold a proportion of their

tax and face was occasion and bankruptcy. There is no othdr

alternative and bright object. I would like to thank the campaigning

organisation conscience, taxing the peace, not war in helping md compile

this bill. They have been compiling a list of modern conscientious

objectors who have been writing statements of conscience. One of

these conscientious objectors has said we have seen increasingly

brittle and far reaching wards, massive death and replacement of the

dozens, trauma and injury to our soldiers, as well as environmental

destruction. As a GP I work every day for the health and well,being of

my patients and as a taxpaydr I must for the people of the UK and

elsewhere. I insist, she gods on, on the rights of a conscientiots

objector for my taxes to be used to forge peace and not to be used on

the mechanisms of war. Mr Speaker, if conscientious objector c`n be

recognised in wartime, why not peace time, to? Today the rights of

conscientious objectors are being debated across the world. Britain

would be setting in world president and demonstrating ourselves in

leader in human rights and freedoms. Those who object for funding water

still want to contribute to the security of our country and the

well-being of our world. Thhs bill calls for a mechanism for the

funding of peace building which would contribute to national

security, whilst allowing individuals to pay their tax with a

clear conscience. We are not on the granting and individual freddom but

also making a substantial effect any more humane foreign fop polhcy.

There are a too possible ends. This Government supporting different is

commendable. A security and security fund is a cross-party fund `nd was

treated by this Government to address causes of international

conflicts. Mr Speaker, if Britain were to pass this bill the TK could

make the hard-won fight of conscientious objection reldvant to

today's society by granting the right for someone not to pax to kill

on your behalf. We could take a lead in redefining the common

understanding of security, genuine long-term security is not achieved

by sophisticated weapons and increased spending on defence but by

cooperation, negotiation and shared understanding of the problels that

face humanity, poverty, ill health. Mr Speaker, I now wish to move on.

Firstly, this bill is not sdeking exemption from paying taxes but

allows conscientious objectors to pay their contribution with a clear

conscience by investing in non-violent alternatives to war and

weaponry. The criticism this bill introducing

it is hypothecated. Isn't the sugar tax to be spent on sports position

for young people not iPod occasion? What about in Shorey and prdmiums

for flood prevention? The UK's most significant form of personal

hypothecation would-be gift aid The redirection of personal income tax

towards a named charity. Thhs amounted to one billion in 2014 15.

Gift aid is widely used by taxpayers are to direct funding to ch`ritable

courses that they prefer. Some say this bill would create a Prdsident

further pressure groups to petition this house to divert taxes to

favourite causes or away from their personal dislikes. Military tax is

specifically an issue of conscience, not a political preference. This

principle was recognised 100 years ago by him at dusty's Government. I

am laying a case for an extdnsion of that right. Finally, the issue of

practicality. The administr`tion of the provisions set out on this bill

would need a sign declaration to HMRC and the transfer of a

calculated sum of money to one named government-controlled fund. The

calculations already providdd by HMRC to UK income tax play ,- payers

as a matter of course. The destination of a tax receipts will

be a single fund from which monies would be drawn from the purposes

indicated in the bill. This bill seeks to acknowledge these reasons

of conscience when spending money. To spot -- to stop people forcing

money to pay for war is that they don't morally agree with and weapons

they cannot in all conscience endorse. Let us acknowledge the

rights of individuals committed to this by extending the recognition of

conscience in regards to war. You get the world you pay for, let's

allow the right to pay taxes for peace, not war. I beg to move. The

question is the honourable lady have leave to bring in the ill. @s many

as are of the opinion, say `ye. To the contrary, no. The ayes have it.

Who will prepare and bring hn the bill? Alan Brown, Caroline Lucas,

Michele Thomson, Howell Williams, Martyn Day, Kate Green, Liz Southall

Roberts and myself. Income tax, non-military spdnding

bill. Friday 2nd of December 20 6. The clerk will proceed to rdad each

-- orders of the day. Higher education -- Higher Education and

Research Bill second reading. The movement has not been selected.

Justin Greening. I beg to move that the bill now be read a second time.

As the Prime Minister said outside Downing Street last week, this

Government wants to give evdrybody, no matter what their background the

opportunity to go as far as their talents will take them. A country

that works for everyone. Our higher education institutions are crucial

to giving people the power to determine their own futures. They

present opportunities for individuals to better themsdlves,

broaden their knowledge basd sharpen their skills and participatd in a

ground -- the ground-breaking research that commit the future

bright of everyone. My time at Southampton University was one of

the most shaping periods of my life. I should point to my town -, time at

defeat as another one of those periods. The chance to go to

university was pivot blow -, pivotal to making something of myself. I can

point to this telephone box in Kingsbridge, Devon, where I run

through to get my A-level rdsults while I was on holiday that year. In

that moment, my whole futurd changed for the better. I was the fhrst in

my family to go to university and I remember after that call, as going

to the pub across the road to celebrate with a drink. Nond of us

really knew going -- what going to university would be like to me but

we knew it was going to be the best thing and it would improve ly life

chances. Opportunity is abott giving young people the freedom to fly

Universities are central to that. This party's record in Government on

this is one that we can be proud of. We have taken away the limit that

was there on student numbers so more people than ever before can benefit

from higher education and the participation rate among sttdents

from the most disadvantaged backgrounds is that record levels.

We put in place the essenti`l funding changes that are pl`ced Al

universities on a stable financial footing so that they are resourced

the success. We have protected investment in our world-class

science base. The universitx that our young people attend somd of the

best in the world. We punch well above our weight. With 34

institutions ranked in the top 00 and more than twice that nulber in

the top 800. There is more to do to make sure everyone can access a

high-quality university place and in spite of the progress, we are far

from meeting our economy's needs for graduates. This Government hs

absolutely determined to support and nurture our universities and ensure

they are open to every studdnt who has the potential to benefit from

them. Madam Deputy Speaker, the creation of new universities is an

undoubted force for good both academically and economically.

Recent research by the London School of economics shows doubling the

number of universities per Capita could mean a 4% rise in futtre GDP

per Capita also. The current system for creating universities c`n feel

highly restricted with new providers requiring the backing of an

incumbent institution to become eligible to award its own ddgrees.

This bill levels that playing field by laying the foundations for a new

system where it will be cle`rer simpler and quicker to establish

high-quality new providers. I am pleased that in May, the melber for

Wallasey confirmed the opposition do not object to broadening out choice

for students by expanding their higher education sector. Thdse

reforms which are the first since the 1980s, are how we maint`in the

world-class reputation of otr higher education institutions. Quality will

be built in at every stage, from the way we regulate new entrants to how

we deal with poor quality providers already in the system. I recognise

there have been concerns about the quality of new providers, that they

can't possibly be as good as what we already have. It is not the first

time that arguments like th`t have been made. The same arguments were

made back then when the new universities were being est`blished

before the First World War. Today, Sheffield, Birmingham and

Manchester, which I've visited recently in my previous rold, our

world-class universities. This quality argument was made about the

1960s expansion but in four of the past ten years, the Sunday Times

award for University of the year has gone to one founded in that very

period. Currently the University of Surrey. In 1992, it was a

Conservative Government that had the vision to set free the polytechnics

to be able to become universities and now we are making it possible

for a whole new generation of universities to help us extdnd

access to higher education for young access to higher education for young

people across our country. H welcome the Secretary of State to hdr new

position and look forward to working with her over the next hopefully few

years. Would she not agree that one aspect of the new polytechnhc/

universities and post-war w`s that students were not asked to

or take the University educ`tion or take the University educ`tion

forward? I recognise the SNP take a very different view on this. The

reality is the choice that her party has made is having fewer sttdents

are able to go to universitx in Scotland. One in five students in

Scotland who apply for a pl`ce and have the grace to get a place can go

because the funding isn't there to have the place available for them.

That is a choice that her Government in Scotland can make that it is not

a choice this Government wants to make. We have to make sure that

places are there for students with the potential and talent to be able

to make their way in life, putting a cap on opportunity and a cap on

potential isn't just bad for students, it is bad for our country

more broadly. Can I congrattlate my right honourable friend on ` this

role. She has been an outst`nding advocate for every role she has had

in front line politics. Is ht not the case that following on from the

introduction of fees, we have seen more students from working class and

poor backgrounds go to univdrsity and in England and Wales whhle in

Scotland educational inequality has worsened to the extent that the

First Minister of Scotland had to sack her education it -- Edtcation

Secretary? Since 2009, studdnts from a disadvantaged background hn

England are now 36% more likely to be going to university. It hs not

good enough to come with excuses for great quality young people who have

the grades and be able to tdll them that they can go to univershty

because the Government that they are unfortunately living in the country

which it is running, is not prepared to take decisions to get funding to

get into a sector to create the places that they need. We are

prepared to do that. I want to come back to this bill because it will be

about opening up this sector to enable new providers to entdr, to

create those extra places that our young people need. There will be

rigorous tests that are part of this bill for new providers alongside

those that already exist looking at quality and making sure fin`ncial

stability are provided and they will be in place. We are interested in

enhancing the world-class rdputation of our universities in creating

opportunity for all rather than expansion for its sake. I whll give

way. I offer her huge congratulations on her new role

Isn't the case that the ill will move us into a new era in that we

will actually be much more focused on giving our students up for the

workplace and linking with business to provide the exact course is that

they need to skill up our pdople for the future? She is right. The good

news is that we expect many and most of the jobs created to be

graduate-level jobs. Our economy is creating opportunity but we need to

make sure that our young people are in a position to take those

opportunities that are being created for them. This is part of why this

bill is absolutely critical and indeed wherever a person is

studying, whatever they are studying, part of how they `re able

to succeed is making sure that they get high-quality teaching and that

is why we are delivering on the Government's manifesto pledge to be

able to lament a new teaching excellence framework for

universities. May I congrattlate the honourable lady to her new job. I

was the first of my family to go to university. Ashfield has ond of the

lowest number of 18-year-olds getting to university in thd whole

country. The Secretary of State shares jewels to see opporttnities

for people from ordinary backgrounds but how will scrapping Brock --

scrapping grants help them? I understood the question. Thd bottom

line is the evidence base is we are getting more young people going to

university than ever before but a higher proportion of them are from

disadvantaged backgrounds. How young people -- we do our young pdople no

disservice by having a systdm that isn't able to be financed to create

places for young people. I will make progress because it is important

that I cover this teaching excellence framework which hs at the

heart of this bill. This fr`mework will assess and drive up qu`lity by

providing reputational and financial incentives the success which is a

proven approach to ensuring high standards that are universities

This approach we are introdtcing is based on what we have learndd from

our experience because it w`s a Conservative Government that

introduced funding for rese`rch on the basis of quality. It is now a

widely accepted way of workhng. The research excellence framework is

regarded globally as the gold standard for institutional research.

By extending this principle to teaching, we can now ensure that

British higher education relains in the world's elite and that students

at all universities receive the quality teaching they have dvery

right to expect. Let me be clear, the bill does not

raise tuition fees or changd current procedures, setting the maxhmum

tuition fee cap. This will rightly continue to require the samd level

of scrutiny as before. The bill will allow the maximum fee cap to keep

pace with inflation, somethhng the last Labour Government allowed since

2007. What we are seeing to high-quality providers is you can't

access fees up to a maximum fee cap if and only if you can demonstrate

your providing high quality teaching and you have an agreed access and

participation plan in place. This allows the fee cap to be set below

the maximum. Those providers that are not meeting the standards will

have to charge fees beneath the maximum fee cap and the maxhmum fee

cap will not increase in re`l terms. Our proposal to maintain thd real

value of the maximum fee cap but only with those with excelldnt

teaching is backed by those who know the sector best, universitids UK

have described this approach as balanced and sustainable. The

argument he named the real value of the maximum fee cap is, the words,

essential to allow universities to continue to deed between active

deliver a quality experiencd for students. -- deliver. I congratulate

the Secretary of State for her appointment. Does she not agree that

there are many students and graduates who have gone through that

?9,000 system who do not fedl that level of tuition fee has bedn

justified and they have not seen the benefits of the decision th`t this

house took some years ago. H think the points he raises are very

important. First of all, thd real terror ability of the maximtm fee to

keep up with inflation is enabling 12 million pounds to investlent to

get into higher education. This idea of making sure the students get

value and that teaching is of high quality is critical, which hs why

the teaching excellence fralework is such an important part of this bill.

I will come onto the role of the office for student sharply. It is

another area of the Bill whhch we are putting students at the heart of

our higher education policy, as they should be. Mr Speaker, if I turned

the office for students now. It does put student's at the heart of the

bill. That offers from studdnts will be the principal regulator for

higher education. It will h`ve a legal duty requiring it to have

choice and the entrance of students, taxpayers and it will look `cross

higher education as a whole with responsibility for monitoring

financial stability, efficidncy and the overall health of the sdctor.

The current system is that we have today was really designed for an era

of direct Government funding of higher education, where fewdr people

attended university. Higher education is no longer for the

privileged elite. We lifted the limit there had been on student

numbers, meaning that more people than ever before have been `ble to

benefit from a university education and now a new framework needs to

reflect this. The office for students will create a new single

register of higher education providers, replacing the current

fragmented system and ensurhng a single route into the sector. The

simpler system means this bhll will reduce costs in the sector `nd

contribute to the D regulatory agenda and makes sure it is clear

and fear. Only those on the register will get degree awarding powers and

charge fees that attract sttdent loans. These providers will have to

comply with provisions and hnclude financial stability and the quality

of their provision. The offhce first to them to have powers to ilpose

additional provisions around access and participation, students from

backgrounds and the caps. I give way. I am grateful to let md join in

with the congratulations around her appointment. Why isn't therd a duty

on the new office for students to promote collaboration. The crisis we

are confronted with around technical education, not higher education and

if we want to grow the numbdr of students who are on apprenthceships

then we need to transform the amount of integration and collabor`tion

there is, particularly betwden further education and higher

education. Why is that systdm not being encouraged at the heart of the

new office for students custom that mac? It is an important point. I

want universities to continte to work hard in local communithes that

they are part of to encourage a pipeline of children who cole

through and are able to apply, who are going to see the disadv`ntage of

university students rising then that is incredibly important. Within the

bill, there is an element of it that does tackle collaboration whth UK

research innovation, which H will come onto shortly. Clearly, there is

also time for this to be debated. I agree with the sentiment of what he

is saying and it is important that universities get outside of their

campuses and engage with local communities and encourage young

people. I am grateful for the Secretary of State and welcome her.

Before she moves off the subject of collaboration, I do think there is a

disappointment from my own perspective that there is no mention

in the Bill about collaboration with the new combined authorities,

particularly those combined authorities like in greater

Manchester that are to take on some of the skills agenda. What does she

think is the role of local Government and the local enterprise

partnership in making sure higher education is part and parcel of that

partnership for a better local economy? I agree with him that these

different parties apps on the need to work together at your local

level. I have the universitx in my constituency and that reachds out to

the local committee and has a high proportion of students taking and

studying degrees there that are from a more disadvantaged background He

is right about that. I am cdrtainly determined to make sure the higher

education sector does play hts role in committees more broadly. He

talked about the bill particularly. I do not think it needs to be

codified for collaboration to happen. Again, I would reitdrate

that I agree with the sentilents of what he has just said. If I could

just make more progress, Madame debt to Peter. It is important that I

inform the House. -- Madam Deputy Speaker. How it will regulate

providers. If the provider breaches its registration the Oval F S will

have a range of sanctions including monetary penalties and in extreme

cases D regulating providers to be able to safeguard the end trust of

students. -- interest. Our proposals have the support of those who know

best. Professor Simon Gaskell, the chair of the task force that

reviewed the sector who comlented, there have been a number of

significant changes to the funding and the number of providers

providing courses. It has to keep pace with these developments of

confidence and our internathonal reputation are to be maintahned

Only today the University Alliance described this bill, the raft that

can take us to calm waters. I will give way. She has emphasised the

need for collaboration and the clause says that we need to increase

competition in the interest of students and employers. Could she

identify collaboration is the interest of students and employers.

Why is she objecting to havd this on the Bill? Madam Deputy Speaker, I

feel like we are already delving into the standing Bill commhttee

debate that will take place on this clause. I welcome the engagdment

with this bill. It is important to get it right and it is in the back

and important debate we will be having first to make sure this is

properly structured and I look forward to the debates once

Parliament comes back after recess. I will take one more intervdntion

before making some progress. I give way. I thank the Secretary of State

and I welcome her to her new post and look forward to future leetings

and the Scottish education system being more accurate. Could H provide

some insight into one aspect of collaboration which could bd

strengthened. 25% of all sttdents entering higher education in

Scotland do so through the colic sector. Many of these are in

collaborative arrangement is with universities, the two plus two

arrangement as we call them. That should be something that thd English

system could well have a look at. He makes a further point on thd need

for universities to be part of their product amenities and indeed it is

worth me setting out how much I welcome the further education brief

is now part of a broader reform for education brief, which means it is

well placed to look across the piece at how these institutions that help

develop our young people work effectively together as a c`ll, as

well as with broader committees Thanks to the reform that wd

introduced in the last Parlhament, the entry rates for young students

from a disadvantaged background are at a record level. In the fhnal year

of the last Labour Government it was around 14%. Today, it stands at

almost 90% of students going to university who are from mord

disadvantaged background. Wd do need to go further. As the Prime Minister

said last week, this Governlent will do everything we can to help

everybody to go as far as your talents will take you. This

legislation supports the kex principle that higher education

should be open to all who h`ve the potential to benefit from it. It's

got to be about more than jtst accessing opportunity. Whilst

application rates for students from disadvantaged backgrounds are at

record levels, we want to m`ke sure the students are supported `cross

the whole of the time at unhversity. There are too many disadvantages and

who do not complete the courses and universities can and must do more to

help them get across the finishing line, so they can not only gain the

degree we started the coursd to get but also reap the rewards that come

after that. I will give way. I welcome her to her position. Can she

tell the House what she thinks are acceptable level of debt is for the

graduate. If you look at thd level of tuition fees that have bden

introduced and the rates of applications from its advantage

students and the numbers of students who are going to university, then

these are young people who `re taking a decision to invest in

themselves and the believe that would be value for money. This bill

is about enabling us to strdngthen that decision further by making sure

the teaching that happens in University is underwritten by a

teaching excellence framework. I am going to give way. Thank yot. I

would like to welcome the honourable lady to her position. I look forward

to working with her. The qudstion I would like to ask is we havd

discussed many of young disadvantaged, however could you

tell us a little hound you `re going to encourage Midge Ure disadvantaged

groups, especially women. -, much you are. How could you encotrage

that and make progress in that area of nursing, which a lot of women go

into after they have had thdir family. There are two areas where

the bill could help. One is on transparency and having a clear

sense of who is entering and getting through our university systdm. The

office for students will have functioned that look at improving

transparents transparency to widen participation and improve access.

Secondly, some of the finance changes which are freeing up the

transfer people who now find it hard to go because they are not `ble to

get finance to find the course to be able to do that. I think it can take

a step forward in two different ways. We're going to go further .. I

will come back shortly. We `re going to go further than Labour ever dared

to strengthen access agreemdnts Under this bill institutions who

want to charge fees above the basic level and we want to ensure they are

doing everything they can to support students from disadvantaged

backgrounds throughout the course in order to decrease drop outs and get

students into fulfilling careers. I will give way to the honour`ble

lady. Enabling students to `ccess higher education one of the students

and has not been able to access our Muslim students for whose bdliefs

prevents them from taking a loan. We will have transparency and need

higher education institutions to provide higher application rates by

gender, ethnic background and social economic class. They need to take

into account equality of opportunity through the life cycle for

disadvantaged students. Not just access. This Bill introduces

measures to safeguard students and taxpayers whilst protecting academic

freedom. It allows the work this to be independent of Government and the

sector as the regulator shotld be. Concentrating regulation with it is

needed, ensuring the highest standards are maintained across the

sector whilst reducing the regulatory burden on the best

performing institutions. If the university is doing well, it should

not have to worry about Bul` Cats teething over its shoulder ,-

bureaucrats. One issue will be a flexible approach to degree awarding

powers. We will move away from the current one size fits all approach

which needs smaller specialhst institutions that can demonstrate

they can award degrees in any subject and which provide ndw

providers, including the best overseas institutions, to spend four

years to build up a track rdcord in England irrespective of howdver

long-standing record of excdllence is elsewhere. Import is a global

academic world. The power in the Bill to the degree awarding powers

allow specialist institutions to gain the powers in only the subject

areas in which they have an interest, and what they need. It

will allow the office for students to give the Greek awarding powers on

a probationary basis for institutions that can clearly

demonstrate the capability `nd happy credible plan to show they can read

the full degree awarding powers As part of this, the OFS will require

clear and robust protections for students when granting prob`tionary

degree awarding powers. I ghve way to the ordinary gentleman. Hs it

higher expectation that manx other great father education colldges who

are already providing higher education, will be able to `cquire

their own degree awarding skill .. Abilities, any more generously than

it is possible? The rule th`t 5 % of students need to be studying on

degree courses will remain. In the end, what we are trying to do more

broadly with these changes hs to open up the chance for new

institutions that are high-puality to be able to join those exhsting

high-quality institutions in the education sector to be able to offer

degrees... I will give way. She may not have seen the policy adviser

self. It was caught on a long lens camera for a briefing into Number

Ten, etc the governor's plans to risk giving poor provision for

marginal streams, what will she do to mitigate against that risk? This

Bill is about ensuring that we have a strong, robust, successful,

innovative, high-quality edtcation sector for Britain's young people.

He is setting out problems `nd then suggesting we should not brhng

forward a Bill to tackle thdm. I will give way to my honourable

friend. It does strike me that she has put on quite a lot of good

detail, these safeguards th`t should satisfy a reasonable people in this

regard. Others will feel it is a closed shop with degree awarding

powers and I am glad this Bhll amongst other things will break down

that closed shop, which I think is unacceptable, particularly for the

global educational provision. We benefit from it and are abld to push

out to other parts of the world He is absolutely right. I think for

many universities that have spent years steadily working to gdt the

own degree awarding powers, these changes are welcome for these

institutions. They should not have to wait so long. After this Bill has

been passed, they won't. I will give away one last time... I suspect

those institutions that havd spent many years and have not got degree

awarding powers will feel they have spent lots of time frustrathngly,

but will be welcomed by institutions she referred to in years to come. I

am sure he is right. I will make more progress because I recognised

that there are many people who want to be able to contribute to this

debate. I will give way in ` second. It is important for me to briefly

set out to the House how thd OFS will be able to act when sttdents

and taxpayers are not being well served. And when there are grounds

to suspect a series page of the provider's conditions of

registration and funding, the powers will have the power to search to

provide a safe guard and a court warrant must be gained at fhrst I

will give way to the honour`ble gentleman. And then I will try to

make some progress through what is a long Bill. I thank the secondary

state from giving way. I have got two universities in my constituency,

what when she said other institutions sharing these changes.

I was not clear what you me`nt by that? I was talking about the

changes to degree awarding powers and the fact that for some

institutions that currently may feel that this is not a route th`t they

would be able to go down, bdcause it is too complex and too long,winded,

we are now going to open up the sector to enable great qualhty

institutions to think about whether the as well could step into the

coming of a tame an institution that can directly award degrees htself,

and after that, a further three years to be a cash and insthtution

that could be called a univdrsity due to its excellence. It is

important for Britain if we are to have a country where the yotng

people have places at the high-quality institutions they want

but also with a range of different degrees that they want and our

economy needs. That we have a high education sector that can... The

Bill also enables the OFS to enable registered high quality education

providers to happy student protection plan in place. Students

will want to know what to expect from the providers of the course

cannot be delivered. Some providers currently have student protdction

plans in lace. This new reqtirement means that students with all

registered providers will bd protected. This Government believes

that nobody with the abilitx should be denied a place at university and

matters- the first time ever we are providing direct financial support

to want to undertake a postgraduate masters study and also direct

financial support to post graduate doctoral study and maintenance

levels compatible that we ghve to full-time students. Whilst this Bill

will make significant improvements to be searched, none of these

changes will be delivered bx undermining other routes into highly

skilled employment. We are committed to creating 3 billion

apprenticeships by 2020 and the Government recently launched the

skills plan which was our rdsponse to Lord Sainsbury is independent

review of technical education which sets out a radical overhaul of the

post-16 skills system. All of these changes will allow young people to

make well-informed decisions about their futures, giving them dvery

opportunity to achieve their potential and at the same thme

improving the quality, relevance and value of learning. I have t`lked a

students but the UK is also a world students but the UK is also a world

leader in research and innovation. I'd like to return to that briefly.

Establishing -- established and emerging countries look on hn envy

at the breadth of the search and a track record of turning innovative

ideas into life changing and marketable products and services.

This Government is already protecting science resource funding

at ?4.7 billion which will rise in cash terms every year for the course

of Parliament. Also investing in new scientific infrastructure in record

scale. Delivering on the schence capital commitment in our m`nifesto.

There can be few people that understand the research landscape

better than Nobel Prize winning geneticist Sir Paul nurse. @nd aside

from being an inspirational example of how social mobility can happen in

our country, last year, he `lso completed an independent review of

our seven research councils, recommending that the seven existing

bodies be brought together hnto one single body. This Bill will make its

recommendation for what he called a formal organisation that can support

the system to collectively become more than the sum of its parts a

reality. I will give way. I thank the Secretary of State for giving

way. At the University of Coventry, Birmingham City University `nd the

University of Wolverhampton, the launch date partnership to bring

together the applied research. They launched a partnership. Will she

make sure that the measures and is Bill to implement the neck hs also

Paul Merson will support thhs innovative collaboration so as she

said, public investment in ` research can add up to more than the

sum of its parts. I think this Bill will help in two ways. Not only will

it naturally bring the rese`rch councils together under one umbrella

organisation but it will also enable that organisation to have a much

more powerful voice in developing its links with the business world

and community. I know from ly time spent in industry prior to dntering

this House, the link between academia and research and btsiness

in Britain is strong but it could be strengthened even further when we

look forward to how our country can be successful as they navig`te

through the Brexit process. Making the most of not only the talent of

young people but also the bdst and world class research institttions,

and the brains that are in them is absolutely key. What this Bhll is

trying to achieve is to bring into being this new body called TK

Research and Innovation that will strengthen that strategic approach

to future can -- challenges and will maximise the value from this

Government's investment of over ?6 billion per year in research and

innovation. UK are I will provide a strong and unified voice of the

research funding system on the global stage, cementing Britain s

world leading position. Yu Pian I and the office students will work

closely together to ensure ` coordinated and strategic stpport.

Welsh universities... Seven research Council structure. 2% of thd total

budget but the population Shia demands by percent. Does shd think

that 2% is fair for Welsh universities, what will the new

structure do to that situathon? Will it be better for four research

councils for the Tour de Fr`nce opponent states of the UK. ,- the

four. This is about world bdating research and the money will follow

where the excellence as. Thdre's no doubt that there is significant

excellence in Wales and that is why there has been significant funding

to some of the world-class research taking part in that place of the UK.

This Bill is about enabling us, as Sir Paul nurse talked about is to

make sure these seven research councils can add up to more by being

brought under one umbrella. I want to move on to complete talkhng about

how we will address that through this Bill. The Bill will ensure that

the UK is equipped to carry out more multidisciplinary research `nd that

they can better respond with agility and flexibility to some of those

latest research challenges. By bringing in the UK into UKRH, we

will be able to harness the opportunities across businesses so

that business led innovation and world-class research can better come

together, making sure that we translate our world-class knowledge

into world-class innovation. I will make some progress. In the TK will

retain its own individual ftnding stream and continue its support for

business led technology and innovation. And protecting ` law for

the first time the dual support research funding system in Dngland.

This is a system that many people consider to underpin the confidence

of universities to invest in long-term research and has

contributed to our country's well-deserved reputation globally

for excellence. The formation of UKRI will provide crucial stpport

during this period of changd in our relationship with the Europdan

Union. As we face new challdnges, we need a strong and unified voice to

represent the interests of the research and innovation comlunity

across Government, Europe and across the world.

It can come out of the procdss of Brexit stronger that is why we are

engaging in a structure where a cross Government and also ottside of

Government the sector like the. . To make sure we have a smarter

process... The discredited this Bill as a draft that can take us to,

waters. It is about how we dnsure we provide the security and thd vision,

and the direction for a strong higher education sector going

forward. I am going to make some progress. I have taken lots of

interventions. I think it is time that I now make some progress and

allow the debate to continud. Our universities are world-class, our

researchers are world beating matters because over the usd, over

decades, over centuries, thdy have evolved and adapted to face the

challenges and the world around them. The world that they do so much

to study, understand and explain. We have to make the bold moves that are

needed to succeed that secure it success for many years to come. It

is about unlocking the talents of people and our best brains. I want

the young people of today and tomorrow to be given every

opportunity to succeed and that is why I am proud to put this Bill

before the House. I would also like to pay tribute to the work done by

my honourable friend for Orpington who has done so much work to get

this Bill to the stage that it is today. The higher education and

research Bill will put more choice and more information in the hands of

students, it will promote social mobility so that every person in

this country has the opporttnity to make the most of themselves, it will

boost productivity in the economy as we realise our future outside of the

European Union as the hands and cement our position in the world as

leaders in ground-breaking research and ensure students and taxpayers

receive value for money frol their investment in education. It is the

right thing to do and it is the smart thing to do. The Primd

Minister told us last week that together we will build a better

Britain. I am clear that edtcation must be at the forefront of that. I

won't universities deserve the best. Our students serve the best. Our

researchers and innovators deserve the best. So they can play their

role in building that better Britain. This Bill will provide them

with that. It will provide them with nothing less than the best `nd I

commend it to the House. Thd question is that the Bill now be

read a second time. Gordon Larsden. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. Can

I begin by congratulating the right honourable lady and welcome her to

her position in this House? We look forward to her development of her

thoughts on this subject. This is a Bill with some positive elelents and

we welcome those. The recognition and identification of social

mobility is a key factor and is very important. It is crucial betrayed a

system that works for social mobility, not just young people but

adults as well. The introduction of Agence pansy Judy Foote University

will -- admissions must be welcome. -- the introduction of a unhversity

duty. This is an issue that we had to press the Government hard on the

maintenance grants debate in January as my honourable friend for

Walthamstow has just made clear I am pleased finally that this has

been taken on board. I want to please also the University Linister

for his strong, consistent `dvocacy of the importance that the DU has

had four universities in thd UK During the referendum he spoke

against Brexit stating it would mean, we will be confronted with the

funding black hole the size of one of the world-class research

councils. Ditching membershhp would mean losing a seat at the t`ble

where the big decisions arotnd funding are made. That is the rub.

The reality is that our world has changed since June the 23rd. That

makes all the concerns and criticisms we had voiced on that

Bill much more powerful. We think the Government is still groping

Our higher education system is focused on being a global operator.

It is a difficult and unpredictable time but it is right for thd

opportunities for the higher education authorities. I welcome

what the honourable gentlem`n said and welcome back he spoke. Julie on

part of the Bremain campaign. The fact remains that we have not had a

partly put forward by the Government on this. I will talk about that

later on. Everyone needs to know about that obsession at the start of

the white paper. We need to confront the possibility of some institutions

choosing or needing to exit the market. This is a crucial p`rt of a

healthy, competitive and well functioning market. Such exhts

happen already but not freqtently in the higher education sector. The

Government should not present to the exit as a matter of policy. It will

remain the provider 's decision to exit and the responsibility to

implicate any exit bands. Stch complacency would be comical whether

it not for the dire consequdnces that that threatens for thotsands of

students and dozens of insthtutions. The Government has made gre`t play

of its new teaching excellence framework as a way of strengthening

offers to students. We approve that, who could not? We approve the

concept of measuring qualitx. The lack of detail of how this will work

is added to by the concerns that the Government is using this as a

potential Trojan horse for removing the cap on fees. If this is done it

could bring in a two tier, damaging separation between teaching and

research institutions. We are strongly opposed to that. And also

the majority of higher educ`tion respondents to the clean paper. That

is why the Secretary of state was all coy about talking about only the

best people believe this. Wd are strongly opposed because in the

first year it would allow almost all universities or higher educ`tion

providers to charge index lhnked inflation for students. This is

problematic post-Brexit with the fragility of the economy and there

are no guarantees on the level of inflation for the next few xears.

There's the potential for significant rises in the cost of

fees for students and Mr and cannot guarantee otherwise. As the white

paper makes clear, all are off. Along with others, you see xou are

concerned with the lack of scrutiny in this framework. Putting the

proposals out separately from the Bill, parliament will be denied the

chance to debate the vital `spect of planning in full. The quality impact

assessment the Government h`s published alongside the Bill raise

further questions about the devil in the detail. I give way. I al

grateful for the Honourable Member for giving way. Does he not

recognise that the link between .. Means that universities are being

made accountable in terms of the increase in fees? There is no

evidence for that. The point is that it universities have a case to make

for fees, they should make ht. The library briefs said of the

impact assessment on which this talks about, it says that its

material is nearly all qualhtative. The impact of view any of the

policies is explicitly quantified. The TEF in its current bases will

not apply that. The macro whll allow both full-time and part-timd

teaching quality. There is no details how this will happen.

Institutes such as the open University who teach a wide range of

students from all education`l backgrounds have concerns they will

not be dealt with in the sale way as students from a more tradithonal

background. I will make mord progress and come to the lady

presently. Long established institutions such as Cambridge

University have set quite straightforwardly we do not support

the linkage between Baku to and fees. It will affect student

decision-making and adversely. Jude that will prevent students from

low-income families to applxing to university. TEF is expected to

benefit students regardless of characteristics in an attempt to

justify the public equality duty. I will give way. I have put two

daughters through universitx and one son thinking of going, I thhnk it is

essential that more focus is put on the quality of what is offered at

universities. That is what this Bill is fundamentally trying to work in.

I would applaud that and wonder how the honourable gentleman wotld

respond? There's nothing wrong with quality at all. Nothing wrong with

quality. You have to see whdre the quality extends to, the truth of the

matter is that at the moment, that is not clear at all put before us.

In addition to the first ye`r, we know they will only be the simplest

of tests made available to `llow institutions to attain Xu Xhn fee

increases. It will be a caching coupon. There are no guarantees to

grab will take us. The TEF... If the honourabld

gentleman would stop backing from the front bench he might find that

one or two of the respondents to the Bill have close connections to the

Government and the Conservative Party. It is not surprising that the

TEF proposals risk the commodity of higher education. The Government had

to roll back the original plans It took six years in the early 200 s to

get a frame up to measure rdsearch quality. Simply using existhng

datasets in teaching, such `s the National student survey ball not on

their own to the business. The Select Committee said that the use

of metrics for proxies for puality was problematic. Although the white

paper claims that the TEF award would add up to ?1 billion hn ten

years, there are no predicthons of its cost. The Government ard

proceeding on this assumption that there will only be one TEF

assessment Perin University. A one size fits all approach that has

already been criticised by lany commentators, not least at the

parliamentary group meeting with the Minister speaking out in December.

With is the recognition str`tegy for finessing that assessment? Humanity,

science, social sciences and so on. I will give way. I am grateful to

the honourable gentleman. I do not doubt his commitment. I cannot

understand what his argument is about the teaching framework. He

begins by attacking the Govdrnment for extensive consultation `nd then

he moves on to attack the Government for being too narrow in its

application is it too narrow minded? Can he enlighten the House could

Apple makes more progress. The higher education white paper

emphasises repeatedly that the driver for these changes is that

half the job vacancies from now until 2022 are expected to be in

occupations regarding high graduate level skills. As Mike Honourable

Member pointed out, does th`t include levels of technical

professional competence? And if so, why is there no strong link`ge with

the skills plan released two weeks ago -- mark that is a need for a

crossover between the skills plan and the higher education Bill. The

disconnection that makes less sense, if the opportunity is to be real for

students at 16 and beyond to switch between higher educational `nd the

occasional roots, why is thd skills plan not directly linked with the

white paper? A recent survex showed that less than 10% of respondents

recalled learning anything `bout higher education in school before

your name or having any contact with University. The education Sdlect

Committee that I served on have called for the number of ye`rs that

it is imperative that we give young people the aspirations of the need

at a much earlier age to make more informed choices about their future

educational plans. I would like to see much more about that in this

Bill. There are also big qudstions about the changes in Governlent to

where this money is coming from Will it transfer all from BDI yes?

Where will the resources cole from to implement these changes? The

Government's strategy for expanding credit education and skills lists on

the philosophy. As we have `lready seen, there is no guarantee of this.

Less than 50% of the money `llocated to the 24 advanced learner loans was

taken up because of the reshstance of older learners. It had to return

?150 million unused to the Treasury. On top of this, students have

already been hacked over thd last 12 months by the triple whammy of

scrapping maintenance grants for loans, freezing the student loan

threshold and removing NHS bursaries. Damaging social lobility

for the most disadvantaged students. This places immense faith in the

magic of the market and central to the proposals is concentrathon on