Browse content similar to 08/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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write a new government is reviewing where we are and looking at how best | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
we can enhance what matters most, which is opportunity? He is | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
absolutely right. We have 1.4 million more children in good, or | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
outstanding schools. We have done that in a variety of ways in terms | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
of what children are learning in class and also how we are getting | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
schools to work together collaboratively. We now need to say | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
how can we take that to the next level but also critically, for | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
million-plus children who are still not getting the attainment levels | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
that we want and live in parts of a country where they do not have the | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
chance to get to a good school, we have to make sure we change the | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
terms of trade to make sure that they are turned into education | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
opportunities. Business question, Mr Paul Flynn. Will the leader of the | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
House gave us the business for next week? Leader of the House, Mr David | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
Liddington. Mr Speaker, the bidders for next week, Monday the 12th of | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
September, remaining stages of the Wales Bill. Tuesday the 13th, | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
secondary reading of the Digital economy Bill. Wednesday the 14th, | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
motions to approve statutory instruments relating to welfare | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
reform in Northern Ireland and pensions. Followed by an opposition | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
day, and on allotted half day, they will be a debate on NHS | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
sustainability and transformation plans... On the 15th of September, | :01:26. | :01:31. | |
debate and a motion related to domestic abuse victims in family law | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
courts, followed by a debate on a motion related to quantitative | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
easing. These are determined by the backbench business committee. On | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
Friday the 16th, the House will not be sitting. On Monday the 10th of | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
October, the provisional business will include the second reading of | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
the neighbourhood planning Bill. I would also like to inform the House | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
that the business in Westminster Hall for the 15th of September and | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
the 13th of October will be as follows... The 15th of September, a | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
debate on the sixth report from the Justice committee of session 2015-16 | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
on prison safety, that is determined by the liaison committee. And on the | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
13th of October a general debate on Tobacco control, determined by the | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
backbench business committee. Can I briefly at Mr Speaker, that I am | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
sure members of all parties represented in this House will want | :02:34. | :02:40. | |
to wish success to the team GB Paralympic athletes on the first day | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
of competition today and personally as an MP that represents Stoke | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
Mandeville, I think everybody in the United Kingdom can take some | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
considerable pride in the fact that it was in this country that because | :02:53. | :03:00. | |
of the drive of Ludwig Guttman, we saw the creation of a disability | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
sport movement which has grown into the worldwide Paralympic movement, | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
whose achievements we celebrate in the next two weeks. We thank the | :03:09. | :03:17. | |
leader and we all are bass king in the reflected glory of the brilliant | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
success of our Olympians and we acknowledge, as the leader has said, | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
the pioneering work in this country in the whole introduction of the | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
concept of the Paralympic games. We all wish the athletes well. There is | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
one minor quibble we would have, it is an odd moment when we are | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
celebrating the success of sport to diminish the role of the time | :03:44. | :03:51. | |
available of the committee responsible for these affairs in | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
this House, culture media and sport. It has been reduced today. We have | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
gone on with this reluctantly but we see it as a temporary measure and we | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
certainly do not think any of these areas are minor in any way. We look | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
for the restoration of the full-time that was previously available to | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
culture media and sport. Next Wednesday's Welsh debate will | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
illustrate the degraded system that our democracy has and the way that | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
it is heading into further distress. The Welsh Bill will not guarantee in | :04:31. | :04:38. | |
anyway a compensatory increase in the number of members of the Welsh | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
Assembly, although the work level has trouble. But in the future, | :04:43. | :04:53. | |
Wales will lose 11 of the 40 MPs, will lose the four MPs of the MEPs | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
that represent Wales, and we have got this turmoil in the democratic | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
system when the disgrace of buying places in the House of Lords | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
continues. Quite rightly, the press condemned the decisions taken by the | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
previous prime minister in awarding places in the House of Lords, which | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
is already bloated, which is already trying to cope with 300 extra | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
members which they do not need, and to add to this in order to placate | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
the interests of lobbyists, cronies and party donors. What we should be | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
doing, instead of having a piecemeal reform of only one part of the | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
defects in our democracy, and that is a reform which will please only | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
one party and help only the Tory party, but will also disenfranchise | :05:50. | :05:57. | |
2 million voters. Should we not be getting together and realising how | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
far our democracy is degraded and how an all-party agreement on how we | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
can come together with a reform which will be all embracing, which | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
will look at all these abuses, in order to have a system that is fair, | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
that is of good value for the electors, and one that can win back | :06:19. | :06:25. | |
the respect that we have had internationally for the quality of | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
our democracy? The decision to halt the contract on Hinkley point was a | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
bold one hand a brave one. The position is not one in which there | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
is a crisis of security. It is an out of date system which has been | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
introduced, which has never worked anywhere in the world, because of | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
the endless construction delays and the multi-billion cost overruns | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
which have taken place in other countries, and we must also | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
reconsider the atrocious deal struck which would mean that our | :07:03. | :07:09. | |
electricity users would be saddled with the highest prices for | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
electricity in the world for the next 35 years. Can he give us the | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
debate, before any final decision is taken, on Hinkley, so we can | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
consider all these aspects in this House before we blunder into what | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
could be a gigantic financial and technological disaster of Hinkley? | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
Finally, could I ask the minister after his distinguished record as a | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
minister on European affairs, why are we retreating from our noble | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
role as providing the gold standards of human rights in the world and | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
certainly throughout Europe by insisting on a minor matter of our | :07:56. | :08:03. | |
own traditional practices and inviting other countries, the | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
oppressive regimes to go back to the old traditions of abusing and their | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
own nation state citizens and degrading the human rights there? If | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
we are not the as the trailblazers, the gold standard, the others will | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
slip backwards. Does he not feel it is a retrograde step and we should | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
consider being hateful part of the court of human rights and all of the | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
European tradition of human being -- European rights we have lived for | :08:33. | :08:39. | |
many years. -- playing hateful part? -- playing a full role. The usual | :08:40. | :08:51. | |
channels will review those depending upon experience with how it will | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
work out in practice. The question he asked at the end about human | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
rights, I have to say to him, there is absolutely no retreat on the part | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
of the Government from the high human rights standards that we set | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
for ourselves in this country, and which we follow through in promoting | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
foreign policy objectives as well. But the human rights of the United | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
Kingdom were well developed and had a fine reputation before the Human | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
Rights Act of 1998 was enacted. There is a long-standing issue over | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
the way in which a number of particular decisions about the | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
application of Article eight of the Convention have applied, in certain | :09:38. | :09:47. | |
extra in cases. We are looking at how -- in certain cases. The | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
government is absolutely clear that we stand by the human rights | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
embodied in the European convention, which after all was something that | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
was very much the product of work by the United Kingdom, and by its | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
politicians at the time. On Hinkley, as the Prime Minister has said, we | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
do intend to make a decision very soon. I think the objective that we | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
have always had in mind is the need in framing an energy strategy to | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
deliver both on climate change objectives, and on making sure of | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
security of energy supply at a reasonable cost to domestic | :10:34. | :10:35. | |
consumers and British industries so that industry can be competitive in | :10:36. | :10:45. | |
some quite fierce global markets. I suspect he and I on the House of | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
Lords voted the same way when those things were debated in a previous | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
parliament for the partially elected upper house. But in truth there was | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
no consensus or anything approaching consensus in the House of Commons, | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
within parties or across parties about how that issue should be | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
addressed. I do not really think it is likely to be fruitful to try and | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
pursue House of Lords reform as an early priority. I was sorry about | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
the disparaging tone he adopted towards the Wales Bill, because | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
after all, what's this government's record has been about is delivering | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
increased devolution, which the Welsh Assembly and political parties | :11:36. | :11:37. | |
in Wales for the most part have been saying that they wanted to see. | :11:38. | :11:46. | |
I was not shocked, but I was disheartened by the critical remark | :11:47. | :11:59. | |
he threw in about the approach of the parliamentary boundary | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
commission and the framework within which they are operating. One of my | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
treats since my appointment has been to get into the honourable | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
gentleman's autobiography. And I found on pages 57 and 58 of his | :12:14. | :12:23. | |
memoirs that he lauded the achievements of the chartists, and | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
he spilled out that one of the key objectives was that we should have | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
constituencies with the equal numbers of electors in each | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
constituency, and now the framework under which the boundary commission | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
is operating will deliver one of the chartered objectives which he so | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
strongly supported. I would have thought he would be cheering us on | :12:45. | :12:53. | |
and not criticising as. He will be aware that I PSA is out for | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
consultation with quite remarkable changes that are being proposed. | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
They are presenting themselves before various committees and will | :13:08. | :13:09. | |
have two sessions before the admin committee. Would he agree to a | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
debate in the House that might give IPSA the opportunity to get a better | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
understanding of what it is like to be an MP and how they can insist | :13:22. | :13:30. | |
rather than hinder? -- a cyst. It is important that they are statutorily | :13:31. | :13:38. | |
independent, but he is right in saying that any decisions about the | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
salaries, pensions and expenses of members of Parliament should be | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
informed by a proper understanding of what the responsibilities of | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
being a member involved, and about the multifarious different ways in | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
which different members, because of the nature of their constituencies, | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
go about doing the job. I would suggest on a debate that the proper | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
course would be for the backbench business committee perhaps to | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
consider this if there is a large number of members who feel a debate | :14:14. | :14:22. | |
of that kind is needed. Can I join the housing wishing the very best of | :14:23. | :14:30. | |
the Paralympic team, hopefully winning a whole clutch of medals for | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
the country. Yesterday the Prime Minister announced there would be no | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
running commentary on the Brexit negotiations and she refused to say | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
whether she was in favour of being in a single market are not. To me, | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
that sounded that this House will be simply expected to accept whatever | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
this government can clock is when it comes to the Brexit deal, as soon as | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
it gets into deciding what that will be. The leader of the houses | :14:58. | :15:05. | |
parliament 's champion. -- concocted. Will he tell us today | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
that this House will be kept bang up-to-date in every detail of these | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
negotiations as it is the biggest single issue in public life today. | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
We already know that the government have no intention of bringing the | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
trigger for article 60 two this House -- article 50. To this House. | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
We also know there will be no Australian points based, instead | :15:31. | :15:43. | |
we're going to have a wall constructed at Calais. No more | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
keeping this House and the public in the dark about what this government | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
proposes when it comes to wrecks it. This morning it was announced that | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
billions of pounds will be spent on refurbishing this House. I am sure | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
the Leader of the House meant to announce that we will have a full | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
statement on this and a proper debate in government time about | :16:07. | :16:08. | |
these proposals, particularly when we learn that this could cost up to | :16:09. | :16:16. | |
?4.3 billion of public money, and I am sure all the constituents would | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
want to know exactly. Lastly it goes back to the constituency issue in | :16:22. | :16:31. | |
the House of Lords that was raised. We're going to have this | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
announcement on the government's latest plans to gerrymander | :16:35. | :16:49. | |
boundaries. When we have that conversation, can it be all of | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
Parliament because we have to take into account what is going on in | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
that absurd House down the corridor. It cannot possibly be right that we | :17:00. | :17:01. | |
increasing the number of unelected Lords while at the same time | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
decreasing the number of elected members. Mr Speaker, first of all I | :17:06. | :17:17. | |
can say to the honourable gentleman that yes, Parliament will be kept | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
fully informed at the appropriate times about the progress of the | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
negotiations, though I think that the honourable gentleman will | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
understand that if there is an ongoing negotiation, it would be | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
foolish of any government of any political party to go into minute | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
detail about how those negotiations were progressing because that would | :17:45. | :17:55. | |
disadvantage this country in the progress of those negotiations. But | :17:56. | :17:57. | |
the government will indeed report back at regular intervals and of | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
course ministers will additionally be available to answer oral and | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
written questions, and it is open to members to make application to Mr | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
Speaker for urgent questions and debates if they feel the case is | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
strong. I would say to the honourable gentleman, if you looks | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
at the track record this week, on the first day back we had my right | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
honourable friend the Secretary of State for exiting the European Union | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
and questions about this matter for about two hours. Yesterday my right | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
honourable friend the Prime Minister, in giving a statement | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
about the G20 summit, in practice spends a lot of time responding to | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
questions about the impact on the United Kingdom's International | :18:45. | :18:53. | |
status in leaving the European Union, so I do not think he can | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
claim to be short-changed this week. He referred to the report which is | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
to be published at midday today by the joint committee of the Lords and | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
Commons on the restoration and renewal project. That is a report | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
which, like any select committee report, has been developed by the | :19:16. | :19:23. | |
members concerned. The government has not had any input into that or | :19:24. | :19:32. | |
any prior copies of the report sent to us so we could suddenly make | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
comments before the announcement made today. Parliament will indeed | :19:40. | :19:48. | |
have an opportunity to debate this before any decisions are taken. | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
Decisions will be a matter for the House and the House of Lords about | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
the future of the Palace. On the boundary changes, I say to him, the | :19:59. | :20:07. | |
principle involved here is a quality of waiter votes. It really would be | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
an affront to democracy if we went into an election in 2020 on the | :20:15. | :20:23. | |
basis of electoral roll is based on a census to decades-old by that | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
point, and we're some members were representing 100,000 electors and | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
others representing significantly fewer than half that total. Thank | :20:32. | :20:41. | |
you. I note that the Leader of the House has announced the second | :20:42. | :20:43. | |
reading of the neighbourhood planning Bill, and I wonder whether | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
he would comment on whether there would be enough time on matter | :20:47. | :20:48. | |
whether he recommends a second debate on the local plan expert | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
group which has come up with substantial and innovative | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
recommendations to simplify the whole process, including | :20:57. | :21:03. | |
neighbourhood planning. I think that there will be opportunity in the | :21:04. | :21:05. | |
course of proceedings on the bill to have the kind of debate which he | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
wants to see, but should he be dissatisfied there are opportunities | :21:11. | :21:17. | |
available. Under half of the backbench business committee, can I | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
say we welcome the opening of positive dialogue with the Leader of | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
the House about the allocation of parliamentary business for backbench | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
debates, and we welcome time sensitive subject applications. We | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
had such an application at the committee on Tuesday, which is for | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
during the week beginning the 10th of October. And that is an | :21:39. | :21:50. | |
application from the member from Colchester, and I would support this | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
because that week is baby loss week, and this debate is about baby loss, | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
stillbirth and infant mortality in the first week of life. If he could | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
find a slot during that week, we would be very appreciative. Indeed, | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
he makes a powerful and persuasive point. I cannot make a promise | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
today, but I will do my best to accommodate what he wants. Well and | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
prison is a reserve prison and is not operating at the moment, and it | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
is at the end of a large residential area. -- Wellingborough prison. | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
Three days ago ten traveller families dumped themselves on the | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
prison car park. The Ministry of Justice have tried their best to | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
move them. It has become unacceptable to my constituents, | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
particularly the ones living nearby. Could we have a statement next week | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
on how the government deals with travellers who are on Crown | :22:52. | :22:59. | |
property? There are number of us on all sides of the House where we have | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
had this problem of unauthorised encampment upon privately owned or | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
publicly owned land and local residents have become very | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
distressed about that. I am sure the appropriate Minister will want to | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
talk to my honourable friend about this particular case, but he might | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
want to consider applying for an adjournment debate so he can discuss | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
his views more fully and secure a detailed response from the Minister. | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
The campaign for Better Transport has this week set out its concerns | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
that the government's bus services Bill will have a huge impact on | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
rural bus services. I regularly get complaints from constituents about | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
the deterioration of their services, particularly in country areas, | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
around Silloth and the Solway plain. Will he ensure that when the bill | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
comes for debate in this House, there is proper time to discuss the | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
impact on rural bus services? I'm sure there will be ample time to | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
ensure we have those discussions which will be relevant to members | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
across the House with rural constituencies. There are some real | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
challenges in that many rural bus services to provide a vital lifeline | :24:23. | :24:34. | |
which is quite a minority of people because the customer base shrinks | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
but the services are also still important. I would hope that the | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
debate encompasses things like the use of new technology to help | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
provide community transport services which, in my constituency and | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
others, are providing a very useful additional form of support to people | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
living in villages. Could we have a debate on paediatric training in the | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
NHS in England because in my constituency the children's | :25:06. | :25:07. | |
emergency centre that County Hospital has been temporarily closed | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
due to lack of sufficient trained staff, and I understand that I am | :25:13. | :25:14. | |
not the only member of Parliament who has this problem in the | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
constituency. I can understand, particularly given the history of | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
hospital services in Staffordshire, via my honourable friend is so | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
concerned, and he has been a very strong champion of patients in his | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
constituency. I was sorry to hear what had happened. Obviously the | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
local health authorities have taken the decision on grounds of patient | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
safety, which clearly has to come first. I hope those local problems | :25:44. | :25:52. | |
can be resolved as rapidly as possible and the government is | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
certainly determined to continue to ensure that paediatric training | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
standards are of the highest level possible. Can I take the opportunity | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
to congratulate him on his appointment. In January the | :26:06. | :26:07. | |
government announced welcome proposals for a partnership between | :26:08. | :26:14. | |
the DFT and TEFL to specify franchises in London when an divine | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
-- individual franchises lapse. How does the government take this | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
forward in the months ahead? Thank you to the honourable gentleman for | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
his welcome to me. I would draw his remarks to the attention of both the | :26:30. | :26:36. | |
Minister for London and the appropriate Minister in the | :26:37. | :26:38. | |
Department for Transport and ask one of them to make contact with him. | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
I'm delighted at the importance of industrial strategy, now formally | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
recognised, not least by being included in the title of a | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
government department. Can we have a debate on its terms of reference, | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
its aims and objectives? It sounds to me like this would be an | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
excellent idea for my honourable friend to put forward to the | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
gentleman opposite as the chairman of the backbench business committee. | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
I'm sure my ministerial colleagues would welcome it, if such a debate | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
was secured. The industrial strategy is going to be important for future | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
prosperity in this country. It is important we have a strategy that | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
works for all sectors of industry, particularly the new industry which | :27:32. | :27:33. | |
will provide the growth and opportunity for the country in the | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
future and that it is a strategy that works for all parts of the | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
United Kingdom. Every single day in my constituency of Dundee I have low | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
income workers getting in touch after the tax credit support, Rob | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
Lee and without warning is stopped and HMRC payment by results model, | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
in short, commission. It causes immense stress and hardship for | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
households. 12% of all enquiries are about this very issue in my office. | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
Will the House commit to an urgent debate on this matter before more | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
people experience this harsh and brutal situation? Decisions about | :28:14. | :28:22. | |
tax credits are not always what applicants want. It is very | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
important. Every constituency MP would agree with the honourable | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
gentleman, decisions are taken as promptly as possible and that they | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
are accurate. He is right in saying people on low incomes are completely | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
thrown if an application that is justified is suddenly either | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
rejected, or there is an unjustifiable attempt to claw back | :28:45. | :28:52. | |
money after the event. I will let the relevant Treasury Minister know | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
about this particular point. It may be something he would like to seek a | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
debate upon but I hope very much that the problems he has described | :29:04. | :29:11. | |
will be resolved by HMRC and the contractor as rapidly as possible | :29:12. | :29:13. | |
because constituents deserve a better service than that. To assist | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
my honourable friend the leader of the House in the consideration of | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
the Brexit process, I have an idea. I wonder if he could enlighten us as | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
to the state of the discussions on the scrutiny by the select | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
committees in the Brexit process? My perception is that it is clear that | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
each department should have a select committee. We have two new | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
departments and we should have two new select committees. Considering | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
the complexity of the issue and the need for communities to be involved, | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
it would help if we got going on the select committee as soon as possible | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
and I wonder if he could help as I am sure the House would like to see | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
this kind of scrutiny. I will do my best to help. These matters are | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
subject to continued discussion between the usual channels. I think | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
on anything related to the establishment of select committees, | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
if it is humanly possible to have a cross-party agreement it is better | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
we should achieve that. Thank you, Mr Speaker. There is a new and | :30:17. | :30:23. | |
innovative charity established in my constituency to offer opportunities | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
to people to get out and about in the outdoors in the Trossachs. Can | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
we have a debate to explore how we can promote such excellent | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
initiatives across the country? I think that is an excellent subject | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
for the honourable gentleman to draw to the attention of DWP menaces at | :30:45. | :30:52. | |
the next question Time will stop or for him to seek and add -- DWP at | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
the next question Time. It seems to me the word should be spread and | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
this could be an example in which we could copy. The next time we have a | :31:03. | :31:09. | |
meaningful time to have debates will be in October. The government has | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
given a lot of money to flood defences in the United Kingdom, | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
another 12.5 million in Dover North. Can we have a statement from the | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
Government about the future of flooding and flood defences. It | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
affects the whole nation, not only see flooding, but internal flash | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
flooding, and this has to have a continued debate in this chamber. My | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
honourable friend raises an important point and of course I will | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
recall his constituency was very badly affected by floods a couple of | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
years ago. And he was the most fearless and outspoken champion of | :31:47. | :31:54. | |
his constituents at that time. Coincidentally there has been a | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
report published earlier today by Deborah on flooding and the future | :32:00. | :32:07. | |
25 year plan for flood resilience. -- by the Department. I urge all | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
members of the House to take an interest in this matter to study the | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
report. It has a number of important conclusions and also proposals on | :32:17. | :32:18. | |
how the Government will take things forward into the future. I notice | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
request for a debate. Clearly I cannot promise that at the moment | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
but I understand the subject's importance. On the 19th of August a | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
faulty tumble dryer caused a major fire in Shepherd scored, and damaged | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
a major block of flats. 26 families had to move out and it was a miracle | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
there were no deaths, or serious injury. There are 1 million for the | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
products not being recalled by the manufacturer. Can we have eight | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
government statement on how many factors can be made to recall and | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
replace faulty white goods as demanded by the London Fire Brigade | :32:56. | :33:03. | |
total recall campaign? I think if there is a question in my mind about | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
the legal position, if goods have indeed been sold that are | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
demonstrably a threat to the safety of those customers, I would hope | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
that if a situation like the one he described, the manufacturer should | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
take note of his remarks and act accordingly. I shall ask the | :33:25. | :33:32. | |
relevant Minister to have a look at the particular case. If you would | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
like to write to me with the details I will happily passed those onto the | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
relevant department and let's see if we can get appropriate action. I | :33:40. | :33:47. | |
have a familiar question for my honourable friend as one of the | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
longest serving Europe ministers. Can we have a statement after the | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
new minister's visit to Cyprus, which coincides with three meetings | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
taking place this week between the city and leaders and the president | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
saying the end of the road has been reached and it is time to reunite | :34:04. | :34:10. | |
Cyprus? I know that my right honourable friend, the member for | :34:11. | :34:18. | |
Rutland and Melton would be delighted to talk to the member for | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
Southgate about his recent visit to the island full stop I am sure all | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
of us across the Florida house --. I am sure everyone in the House would | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
like to see the country reunited and the Turkish and Cypriot communities | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
brought together again. That would be a good day for the United | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
Kingdom. I think there will be an opportunity to raise this at the | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
next foreign office questions. I think a conversation between my | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
honourable friend and the Minister is probably the best way forward. | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
Yesterday, the BBC reported that Katrina Percy, the former Chief | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
Executive of the sudden health trust, which has been investigated | :34:59. | :35:05. | |
because of a lack of investigation into unexplained death at the trust | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
had resigned from a post but was then shunted into a ?240,000 per | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
year job created just for her with no other candidates. -- Sutton | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
health trust. Can we have a debate about this very worrying decision? | :35:24. | :35:30. | |
My understanding is that this was an appointment which was wholly within | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
the jurisdiction of the local board of the relevant NHS trust and it is | :35:35. | :35:42. | |
a decision which that board therefore needs to explain and for | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
which they are accountable. Health provision is very important to all | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
constituencies. With an ageing population and acute health needs. | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
Given that, can we have a debate in government time about the NHS in the | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
West Midlands and in particular mergers of CCG and NHS trusts | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
serving my constituency? My honourable friend raises an | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
important point. He is already in his first year in this House | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
building up a reputation as somebody who really does stand up for good | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
health services and the interest of patients in the West Midlands. He | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
will have an opportunity on Tuesday the 11th of October when we have | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
health questions to make some of these points to the ministerial | :36:31. | :36:37. | |
team. The communities act application by new Council to | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
control fixed odds betting terminals alongside 92 other councils which | :36:44. | :36:45. | |
represent 42% of the population in England and were expired on the 14th | :36:46. | :36:52. | |
of July. That act says the Government has to compromise with | :36:53. | :36:54. | |
the negotiations and no debate has taken place. When will we get a | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
statement on this important issue for a huge proportion of the | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
country? I will ask the responsible minister to write to the honourable | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
gentleman about that point. Can my right honourable friend arrange for | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
the attorney general to make a statement about appealing against an | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
Julie lenient sentences? A number of people in my constituents felt the | :37:21. | :37:27. | |
sentence given to Anjem Choudary was derisory given the serious level of | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
the offences he had committed. We found out today in the newspapers | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
that the attorney general is not able to appeal against a lenient | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
sentence for that particular crime. We promised in the manifesto to | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
extend the number of crimes that could be appealed for being lenient | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
in sentencing. When are we going to crack on with it? As he pointed out, | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
big and was elected on a manifesto which pledged us to extend the list | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
of crimes that were covered by the right of the attorney general to | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
refer excessively lenient sentences to the Court of appeal. -- the | :38:08. | :38:16. | |
Government was elected. Either the attorney or relevant justice | :38:17. | :38:18. | |
minister will come forward with a statement to the House will stop the | :38:19. | :38:28. | |
petitions --. The committee has agreed on a Parliamentary debate on | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
grouse shooting after the session and there is a debate about the | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
badger culling and I am sure we will reach the 100,000 required. When we | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
had a debate on Westminster Hall this week, more than 40 MPs attended | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
and a lotta people wanted to watch the debate but could not fit into | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
the public gallery. Can we make sure that both of these debates are in | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
the main chamber so people can come and watch and there is time for MPs | :38:53. | :39:00. | |
to take part? There is always a pressure which government must | :39:01. | :39:08. | |
wrestle with and there is also, the backbench business committee must | :39:09. | :39:10. | |
wrestle with which matters are debated in Westminster Hall and | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
which matters are debated in the chamber. She will have an additional | :39:14. | :39:21. | |
opportunity on Thursday the 13th of October, when ministers from | :39:22. | :39:23. | |
environment, food and rural affairs will be answering questions here. I | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
know the leader of the House is very aware of the anxiety caused in Corby | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
aroused the discussions ongoing about the future of the steel | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
industry. Can we have a statement next week from ministers updating us | :39:38. | :39:39. | |
on where we are with these discussions with the industry, the | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
department and unions, so my constituents can be updated as to | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
exactly where we are? I will make sure that the business secretary and | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
the international trade secretary are aware of my friend's concerns. I | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
understand the importance of the steel issue is for his constituents | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
in Corby. The Prime Minister said in her statement on the G20 yesterday | :40:09. | :40:17. | |
that she had raised the question of overproduction on global markets in | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
the plenary session of the G20 leaders when she had been in China. | :40:21. | :40:27. | |
And she hoped that would lead to the international powers considering a | :40:28. | :40:37. | |
way forward to manage this. The leader of the House is very popular | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
in my constituency. And I have been asked to ask this question, whether | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
they voted for Brexit or to Remain, if this is a sovereign Parliament, | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
why did they concede the deal and why has a sovereign Parliament can | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
we not have a vote? Because they love him so much they would like a | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
debate on the closure of accident and emergency in Huddersfield and | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
with the landfill tax going up to ?85 across West Yorkshire, we are | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
getting fires and unscrupulous waste contractors are setting fire to | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
waste in order to save money, can we have debates on all of those | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
subjects? I think all the waste management question he will have the | :41:23. | :41:30. | |
opportunity at questions on the 13th of October. On the local health | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
issue there are questions on Tuesday the 11th of October to the health | :41:35. | :41:36. | |
ministers. As someone who the House knows was | :41:37. | :41:47. | |
on the Remain side of the campaign, if we are Democrats, however | :41:48. | :41:50. | |
reluctantly, to accept the result. If the result had been the other way | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
round, I would have been the first to say to my colleagues supporting | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
the leave campaign that it was time to fold up their tent. We have to | :42:00. | :42:02. | |
respect the view that the electors have taken. As I am sure the whole | :42:03. | :42:12. | |
House will be aware, the world black pudding throwing Championships are | :42:13. | :42:19. | |
taking place in Ramsbottom in my constituency this weekend. It dates | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
back to the War of the Roses. Can we please have a statement on what the | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
government will be doing to promote this prestigious and historic event | :42:29. | :42:35. | |
in the future? For a moment I thought he was going to propose this | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
as an experimental support for the Tokyo Olympics and for -- in four | :42:40. | :42:48. | |
years. I think he has made his point very forcefully, as usual today. I | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
hope he gets the chance to sample the black puddings before they are | :42:55. | :43:02. | |
thrown, rather than afterwords. Does giving evidence, -- when giving | :43:03. | :43:16. | |
evidence, the predecessor offered to come to my constituency to discuss | :43:17. | :43:25. | |
English votes for English laws, much to the disappointment of my | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
constituents. Will the new Leader of the House visit my constituency to | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
discuss this with my constituents in his place? Just say yes! | :43:33. | :43:42. | |
LAUGHTER It is a delight to have such a tempting offer. | :43:43. | :43:51. | |
Her constituency like many others in Scotland contains vibrant | :43:52. | :43:53. | |
communities and absolutely wonderful landscapes. But while I would hope | :43:54. | :44:01. | |
to be able to visit North Ayrshire at some stage in the future, I | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
cannot give a firm diary commitment at the moment. I welcome the | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
statement that there will be a debate on the government's Tobacco | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
control programme. The issue at hand is that the control programme that | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
was running for five years has expired, and we were promised a | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
replacement in the summer of 2016. I realise the summer stretches into | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
the autumn, but we still do not have the new programme published. The | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
government has met the targets it set itself under the five-year | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
programme, but during that debate can my right honourable friend make | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
sure that the Minister announces the date for publication and that it is | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
announced in this place? I will make sure the Minister knows, my | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
honourable friend will have an opportunity not just to take part in | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
the back bends business debate -- backbench business debate, but in | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
the debate on the 11th of October. When will members of the House now | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
when they can elect the chairs of the select committees? I hope as | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
soon as possible. Obviously after this week we have to provide for an | :45:16. | :45:17. | |
additional select committee But I hope this is not delayed | :45:18. | :45:30. | |
indefinitely. Will the Leader of the House look again at the time | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
allocated for the development of international trade. I do not think | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
the leader was in his place this morning when we had half an hour for | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
questions to the culture department then half an hour regarding the | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
international trade Department. There are almost 50 questions listed | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
on the order paper for a one-hour period, whereas a normal one-hour | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
slot would only have about 35. Despite his huge experience, the | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
Speaker had to make heroic efforts to try to squeeze everyone in, and | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
even then it overran by ten minutes. Surely we can do better than this, | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
given the importance of international trade post Brexit? I | :46:12. | :46:18. | |
will look at what experience tells us of the new roster for oral | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
questions and if the House needs to be asked to review this again then | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
we will do that. I think that will be very welcome in the House. The | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
danger otherwise is that there is a recipe for disappointment. There is | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
always unsatisfied demand, but it was very, very striking this | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
morning. Huge numbers and a lot were disappointed. I have also been | :46:45. | :46:54. | |
contacted by hundreds of single women over the summer who have been | :46:55. | :46:57. | |
affected by the behaviour of concentric. I received a written | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
parliamentary answer yesterday to see the contractor had breached its | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
performance standards on 120 occasions over the last 11 months. | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
Can we have an urgent debate about the behaviour and performance of | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
this contract so it cannot punish individuals and particularly single | :47:19. | :47:27. | |
women for another day? Clearly the number of contract breaches she has | :47:28. | :47:29. | |
described is completely unacceptable. I think that she might | :47:30. | :47:37. | |
want to write to the financial Secretary is probably the right | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
minister at the Secretary to make sure the concerns are being directed | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
correctly to the ministers dealing with HMRC, but it seems to me that | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
it is the responsibility of the HMRC senior management to manage their | :47:51. | :47:57. | |
contract effectively and for the contractor to deliver rant delivered | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
a decent service to her constituents and everyone else's. -- to deliver a | :48:01. | :48:17. | |
decent service. The decision by southern health was greeted with a | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
fit of apoplexy in my constituency, but can we have a debate on the | :48:22. | :48:30. | |
scandalous and enduring and read duopoly of the wholesale newspaper | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
distribution market and the disastrous consequences this has for | :48:34. | :48:43. | |
independent retailers? My honourable friend is obviously returning with | :48:44. | :48:50. | |
relish and energy to his new role as a backbench champion, particularly | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
for small retailers in his constituency. I am sure he knows the | :48:54. | :49:01. | |
ropes well enough to know that an adjournment debates might well be | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
the opportunity to discuss these concerns further. I was recently | :49:06. | :49:14. | |
contacted by a constituent when she discovered her energy account had a | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
standing charge of 14p per day higher than other constituents. Aeon | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
tell me that they are entitled to charge a higher rate for those who | :49:23. | :49:28. | |
do not pay their accounts by direct debit, but this | :49:29. | :49:41. | |
amounts to... -- E.on. The way forward would be for the honourable | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
gentleman to see if he could catch the eye of the Speaker for business | :49:47. | :49:55. | |
energy questions and he could put those points to the ministers. Mayor | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
also strongly endorse what was said by the honourable member for Heywood | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
and Middleton, and my right honourable friend for New Forest | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
West about the extraordinary decision of the southern health | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
trust to create a host with a salary greater than that of the Prime | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
Minister to accommodate someone whose position as Chief Executive | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
had become untenable, but may I ask for a ministerial statement on the | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
plight of Afghan and other former interpreters for British Armed | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
Forces in hostile environments who have applied for but not yet been | :50:32. | :50:38. | |
given asylum in this country? This is not only a debt of honour but | :50:39. | :50:41. | |
something that is necessary for the future functioning of British troops | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
in hostile environments when we are greatly dependent upon indigenous | :50:47. | :50:53. | |
interpreters. He raises an important point. Clearly it is a very | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
important principle that asylum decisions are all taken on the | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
merits of each particular case, and that is true of applications of | :51:05. | :51:11. | |
former interpreters as well as everyone else. But the Ministry of | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
Defence and the Home Office continue to review the overall situation in | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
order to ensure that we are providing protection to people who | :51:23. | :51:31. | |
have helped to protect us, -- to protect us. My right honourable | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
friend will be pleased to know that on Monday the 12th of September, | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
next week, we have defence questions, which may be something he | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
wishes to raise with defence ministers Ben. May we have a | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
statement on reports that emerged over the summer that the government | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
equalities office has awarded G4S the contract to deliver the helpline | :51:56. | :52:12. | |
. The matter is urgent, I understand the contract is due to take effect | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
from the 1st of October, so could the leader make a statement on the | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
subject next week, as people have expressed concern at G4S providing | :52:20. | :52:26. | |
public services? I will draw the concern to the attention of the | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
relevant Minister dealing with the government office for the qualities. | :52:30. | :52:36. | |
Parliamentary scrutiny of Sports Direct has helped employees get a | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
better deal from a rogue employer. May we have a debate on a good | :52:41. | :52:47. | |
increase in the minimum wage leading some employers to cut back terms and | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
conditions further staff, leading to a net reduction in pay? That cannot | :52:52. | :52:59. | |
be right. Badge for your staff. It is not right, but I would have hoped | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
that the honourable gentleman would have acknowledged that by setting | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
the first-ever national living wage it is this government that has | :53:06. | :53:10. | |
lifted considerably the minimum levels of pay that the low paid | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
employers can no expect around the country. -- can now expect. The | :53:15. | :53:22. | |
honourable member for North the Beds asked what progress has been made | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
for setting up select committees to scrutinise the new departments of | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
exiting the European Union and the new Department of International | :53:32. | :53:33. | |
trade, and he said discussions are ongoing. When we get back on the | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
10th of October, it will be more than 3.5 months since the | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
referendum. We have had very little detail this week of what is actually | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
proposed by the government. I am sure that lots of other honourable | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
members are inundated with requests about what the government are going | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
to do in light of the vote. Can he guarantee that when we return here | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
on the 10th of October, the select committees will be a position to get | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
up and running and scrutinise these departments to try to get the | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
answers we have not had this week? I very much want that to be the | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
position, I hope the ongoing discussions through the usual | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
channels have a successful outcome soon. Can we have a debate on the | :54:13. | :54:21. | |
performance of South-eastern Trains. The government has put ?20 million | :54:22. | :54:24. | |
into trying to sort out the mess of suburban trains. But my constituents | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
are suffering equally because of the poor performance of this company | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
behaving like they have one foot out of the door because they can see the | :54:33. | :54:34. | |
prospect of TEFL taking over the franchise. -- TfL. He will have the | :54:35. | :54:52. | |
opportunity to raise this with Transport Minister is next week. One | :54:53. | :55:00. | |
of my constituents is waiting for a decision from the DW P regarding his | :55:01. | :55:10. | |
condition. On the 12th of January I was advised a decision whether or | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
not to add this to the list of prescribed diseases will be made | :55:14. | :55:16. | |
early this year. As we are still waiting, can we have a ministerial | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
statement to explain this delay and bring these deliberations to a | :55:22. | :55:29. | |
conclusion? I will draw that matter to the attention of DWP ministers | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
because whatever the decision is to be, the sooner that people know the | :55:36. | :55:42. | |
outcome, the better. The Leader of the House and I have something in | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
common, in that we were both 1's contestants on University challenge. | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
If we were able to have a debate on enhancing democracy, how would he | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
answer this starter for ten, under what school for logic do you enhance | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
democracy by cutting the number of elected politicians and increasing | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
the number of unelected peers? I said to him earlier, I wish I had | :56:07. | :56:14. | |
been the consensus that was absent about the House of Lords, but we are | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
where we are on that, and I doubt the opinion of the House of Commons | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
has changed all that much since we have been -- had to be aborted | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
attempt at reform. I think the answer to him as that he really | :56:30. | :56:36. | |
cannot evade the central point, that we are now operating on electoral | :56:37. | :56:44. | |
registers based on a census taken in 2001. It is now very out of date, | :56:45. | :56:47. | |
given population changes that have taken place, and it is also just | :56:48. | :56:54. | |
plainly wrong to continue with a situation in which constituency | :56:55. | :57:01. | |
electorates are of such disparate sizes which means there is gross | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
inequality between the weight of votes of individual electors. | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
In June of this year, one of my constituents was killed because of a | :57:11. | :57:23. | |
gas blow out at a minus. In August, a contract worker was electrocuted | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
doing service work at the same mind. Back in April, 11 miners escaped | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
with their lives after oxygen ran out. The mining has been | :57:32. | :57:38. | |
investigated over the past 12 months. Those 11 miners, some of | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
which have had to return to work with post-traumatic stress disorder, | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
due to the fact the sick pay is not enough to cover the costs of feeding | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
a wife and children... Can we have a debate in relation to health and | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
safety work and locations of workers having to return to work because | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
sick pay is not adequate enough, when companies have accepted | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
liability? I am grateful to the honourable gentleman to -- for | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
bringing a serious matter to my attention. I want to express my | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
sympathy with those of his constituents who have gone through | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
this horrific experience and also their families. What he raises | :58:18. | :58:26. | |
crosses the border between the Department of business and energy | :58:27. | :58:34. | |
and the DWP in respect of benefits. What I will do is I will draw this | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
question to the attention of ministers in both departments. He | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
might also like to raise this ad business and energy questions when | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
it comes macro up. Or seek an adjournment debate so there can be a | :58:48. | :58:49. | |
consolidated ministerial response across government addressing these | :58:50. | :58:59. | |
concerns. Three people a day die due to a shortage of transplantable | :59:00. | :59:06. | |
organs. Earlier this week a quadruple amputee poses -- pose nude | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
with her body displaying transplantable organs. | :59:11. | :59:22. | |
The honourable gentleman has used today's opportunity well to | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
highlight his support for organ donation. I know constituents who | :59:28. | :59:37. | |
have been given not only a longer life, but a life of unexpectedly | :59:38. | :59:45. | |
improved quality because of a successful organ transplant. I am | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
sure that he can find many ways in which to highlight this matter | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
during Parliamentary proceedings. Order. We will come to the | :59:57. | :00:06. | |
honourable gentleman in due course. Point of order. Can you advise me | :00:07. | :00:12. | |
how best I can bring my concerns to the attentions of the House in | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
relation to the boundary review and House of Lords reform? It seems | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
perverse to reduce the number of elected representatives in this | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
place, while the Lords continues to gorge itself on new arrivals. Mr | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
Speaker, I believe in an appointed other House but not at the current | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
price and not at the expense of this elected and therefore accountable | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
chamber. Mr Speaker, we in this place must guard against bringing | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
this country's democratic settlement into disrepute. | :00:42. | :00:51. | |
Is it further to that? Let's here from the honourable member from | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
Shipley and I will respond to both. I absolutely endorse everything my | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
honourable friend has just said. In addition, we have a situation | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
whereby the government are proposing to reduce the number of MPs by 50, | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
but not reduce the number of ministers by an equal proportion, | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
thereby giving the government more control over the House of Commons, | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
which clearly has to be an outrage. That is something that needs to be | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
considered in conjunction with the points raised by my honourable | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
friend. I'm grateful to both honourable members are raising the | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
points of order. Let me deal with each intern. In relation to the | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
point of order from the honourable gentleman from who is the | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
illustrious chair of the procedure committee of the House, I remind | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
colleagues that the honourable gentleman asked the chair by what | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
means he can register his concern. As the honourable gentleman knows, | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
because he is sagacious, he has found his own salvation. He made his | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
own point with his own inimitable aliquots and it is on the record. I | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
know how strongly feels about it. -- eloquence. These matters would | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
totally be further debated. Secondly, in relation to the | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
honourable member from Shipley, I note the force of his point about | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
reductions in numbers of MPs. Needing, as he sees it, to be | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
accompanied by reductions in the number of ministers. The honourable | :02:24. | :02:31. | |
gentleman has got such a long established good memory for what | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
people have said in the past, that I feel sure that although he did not | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
say it today, he will be well aware that I myself expatriated on this | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
matter on the 19th of January, 2011, in a lecture on the Institute to | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
government. On that occasion I made the point it would be a rum business | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
to reduce the number of MPs but not to cut the number of ministers. I | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
Therefore I am very happy to say it Therefore I am very happy to say it | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
again five and a half years later and to be write a second time. -- to | :03:04. | :03:12. | |
be correct. I am not sure either of them were a point of order but they | :03:13. | :03:14. | |
were jolly good fun. Point of order, Kerry McCarthy. | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
Yesterday I asked what recent progress has been made on the | :03:22. | :03:23. | |
national flood resilience review. We didn't reach question 12. I received | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
a written response later that day which said the review has been | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
assessing how England could be better protected from flooding and | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
extreme rainfall. The review has been working to identify actions | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
needed to strengthen our resilience to flooding. That is one of those | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
answers that tells you absolutely nothing. To my surprise, this | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
morning, we had a written ministerial statement and a hefty | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
document published. The written statement, although it is for the | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
Secretary of State, is in the joint names of her and the Cabinet office | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
minister. Is it not at the very least extremely discourteous to not | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
flag it up yesterday? Or does it suggest the Cabinet office minister | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
was not aware he was about to publish this review? It would be | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
rather disturbing, it has to be said, if a minister of the Cabinet | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
office were unaware of the imminent publication in his or a colleague's | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
name of such a report. I find that very hard to credit. I think what I | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
would say to the honourable lady is that it may be regarded as | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
discourteous. That is a matter of opinion to some extent. What I can | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
safely say is that it was, at the very least, unhelpful. There is a | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
general principle that ministerial answers should be as informative as | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
possible. It was unhelpful. I think I can say, possibly at the risk of | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
irritating the Cabinet office minister, which I will have to bear | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
with stoicism and fortitude, at the very least it was extremely | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
unimaginative of the minister and string not to consider providing | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
more information, or alternatively to consider and then to decline. | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
Very unsatisfactory. We really ought to be able to do better than that. | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
The great thing we have on our side, the new leader of the House, and | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
this was flagged up in a moment ago, is of course, I think twice a winner | :05:24. | :05:32. | |
on University challenge, with a gap of 30 years in between. It used to | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
be said that the honourable gentleman, the member for haven't in | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
the last Parliament, was two brains. I leave colleagues to speculate or | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
indeed to compute how many brains the leader of the House has. He is a | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
very cerebrovascular. I am sure that he can spawn more imaginative | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
thinking among his ministerial colleagues. -- so readable. Point of | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
order, Kevin Brennan. May I point out in all modesty that | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
I was also twice a winner on University challenge. | :06:08. | :06:15. | |
I must admit, I didn't know that. But I do now and I promise not to | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
forget it. Point of order, Kerry McCarthy. I | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
was on the first-ever season of blockbusters! | :06:27. | :06:34. | |
The honourable lady has made the best case that she can. We thank her | :06:35. | :06:41. | |
for that. Now, a point of order, chair of the Foreign Affairs Select | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
Committee, Mr Crispin Blunt. This is pursuant to the point of | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
order yesterday where there has been a further development increasing its | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
seriousness, which you acknowledged yesterday. On Monday, the Guardian | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
reported the central recommendation of a draft report being put to a | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
committee on arms export control. The meeting to consider this was | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
held yesterday in private. On Tuesday, Newsnight produced excerpts | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
of the text of the draft report, which was the subject of the | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
honourable member for Rhondda's point of order. Yesterday the | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
committee met and resolved to report the matter to the liaison committee, | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
who will have to consider the matter and decide whether it should be | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
referred to the privileges committee, who will then decide | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
whether and how to pursue the matter. Subsequent to that, last | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
night, Newsnight reported extracts of the amendments tabled by the | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
right Honourable member for Wardley and myself, which can only have come | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
from the Consolidated list of amendments which was circulated to | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
members of the committee on Tuesday. Sagbo -- separately, the Guardian | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
today reported the number of amendments we had tabled to the | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
report, which was not reported on Newsnight. On Newsnight, they chose | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
to contextualise the amendments put by my right honourable friend and I | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
in light of our previous membership of the all-party group for Saudi | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
Arabia, and work I had done in the Middle East 12 years ago. And the | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
right honourable gentleman's record in supporting the employment | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
provided by the British defence industry. They emphasised none of | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
this was improper but it gives you a sense of where people stand. In | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
parallel to this, members of the committee received somewhere between | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
1500 and 2000 e-mails on Tuesday and overnight, which appear to have been | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
organised on someone's behalf by a self-styled global citizens | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
movement, where the committee was meeting to consider this issue. The | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
Right honourable gentleman from Warley West believes one was from a | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
constituent. My office did not identify any constituents before | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
calling the organisation inviting them to desist. This relates to a | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
case on a deliberate campaign to influence the committee, relying on | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
information provided by a member of this House or their staff. | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
Conceivably it could have gone from committee staff but I think that is | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
highly unlikely. I cannot recall an example of such deliberate and | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
repeated leaking of information in our time in the House. Would you | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
confirm that it would not be open to the privileges committee to calling | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
the police as this in the -- this is not a criminal matter, but they | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
would be able to call on the services of private investigators to | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
have the capacity to interrogate electronic rebels, including deleted | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
e-mails, of potential sources of this confidential and private | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
consideration of select committees in this instance involving life and | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
death issues and the employment of tens of thousands of our citizens? | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
Could you encourage the liaison committee to consider this as a | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
matter of urgency and confirming your view of the seriousness of this | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
attempt to undermine the work of select committees? | :10:00. | :10:08. | |
Point of order, Doctor Julian Lewis. Mr Speaker, I participated only in | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
two meetings of that committee because three other members of the | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
Defence Commitee have been nominated as a regular attenders. I have total | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
confidence in them. Can I express disquiet at something I did learn | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
only yesterday, which was that this draft report, which is very one | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
sided, was produced without any heads of report discussion prior to | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
the drafting of the report, which means there was no opportunity for | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
members of the committee who dissented from the thrust of this | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
report to raise their objections and to try and reach a consensus before | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
a draft report was produced, and thus was leaked in a very | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
sensational way. I have to say, from someone who has been at one remove | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
from the operation of this committee, that something went | :11:00. | :11:01. | |
terribly wrong with the procedures because they shouldn't be room for a | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
consensus to have been built before any such one-sided report was | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
leaked. I say that as someone highly critical of Saudi Arabia myself and | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
in some sympathy with some of the arguments in the draft. | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
With respect to what he has just said, I am intimately conscious that | :11:20. | :11:32. | |
I cannot and shouldn't intervene in all pronounced overlay on the way in | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
which select committees of the House conduct their affairs. From my own | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
past experience as a member of several select committees before | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
being elected to the chair, it was certainly mine normal and satisfied | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
expectation that, before a draft report was produced, there would be | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
a period of considerable discussion by the committee, not only about | :11:58. | :12:05. | |
track to headings -- chapter headings but more so than about the | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
direction of travel which they could partake in on the first draft. It | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
would be member led rather than chair decreed, still less official | :12:16. | :12:24. | |
determined. I understand the sense of thanks to which he has conveyed | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
in a reasonable, balanced way. I think colleagues would do well to | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
consider what he has said. More widely, I would say this. If | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
colleagues want to come back, they will. The committees on arms export | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
controls carry out extremely valuable work. To do this, they do | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
rely on the corporation and consensus of the chairs and members | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
of four select committees. I very much hope that this corporation can | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
be maintained. So that the House can benefit from their important work. | :13:00. | :13:00. | |
-- Corporation. There has been focused on the matter | :13:01. | :13:13. | |
of the leak and what might flow from that. Let me say this. It is for the | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
committees concerned to investigate the cause of the apparently, to | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
decide whether or not it constitutes a substantial interference with | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
their work, a matter on which other members who were not on the | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
committee might also have a view, and to inform the liaison committee | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
in the process seeking its use. Thereafter, it would be sensible to | :13:40. | :13:47. | |
decide whether to make a special report which would stand referred to | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
the committee of privileges. When the honourable gentleman asks me | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
about the use of Private investigators, I can say only that I | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
don't know whether that would be effective in this instance, although | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
it is conceivable that it might be, but I think probably the best | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
approach for me to take is to say, let the liaison committee, which is | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
an established and respected committee within this House, to make | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
its judgment. It is legitimate for colleagues to make representations | :14:24. | :14:25. | |
to the committee as to what they think should happen, but rather than | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
the Speaker say what the liaison committee should do, the liaison | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
committee should consider the matter carefully, taking note of these | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
points of order in deciding how to proceed. This is a very serious | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
matter indeed. If the committees are this House are to work collectively, | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
we cannot have a situation in which individual members of the committee | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
leak in advance to advance a particular point of view or to | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
retard progress of another. That is against this period of the select | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
committees of this House. If there are no further points of order, and | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
I thank colleagues for what they have said and the spirit in which | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
they have said it, we come to the backbench motion on scamming and its | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
effects on vulnerable individuals. To move the motions, Michael Mr | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
Julian Knight. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I beg to move the motion as | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
on the order paper in relation to scamming and its effect on | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
vulnerable individuals. It is, Mr Speaker, difficult to overstate the | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
damage done to our economy, society by scam artists and frauds. These | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
people are on some of our most vulnerable citizens and can strike | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
at ceremony point in our lives, whether we are buying a home, hiring | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
a tradesman or investing our pensions. As a former consumer | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
rights and personal finance journalist, I have seen first hand | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
the hand that these forces can do. They not only leave people poorer, | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, but can also cause a huge range of health and | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
confidence problems far into the future. For example, in 2003, whilst | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
working for the BBC, I covered a story of a Southampton pensioner who | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
fell victim to scam artists attending to represent something | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
called the Canadian lottery. They convinced him to wire 1006 under | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
pounds in administration fees to Canada to unlock the money. It is, | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
of course, never materialised. There were only escalating demands for | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
more cash. Good money but after bad. In the end, this individual paid out | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
more than ?9,000 to these fraudsters. In a particularly cruel | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
twist, Ireland him telling me that he had been told to wait up with his | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
wife because there were someone going to call at his house with the | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
cheque and a bunch of flowers to deliver his winnings. The door was | :17:06. | :17:13. | |
never not. When they smoked it him again, they laughed down the phone | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
at him about their own crawly. It is easy to form snap judgments on those | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
who fall victims to these. 5% of cases come to light. I will give | :17:27. | :17:36. | |
way. I am grateful to him. He is making a good case it. Does she | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
agree with me that these crooks are getting ever more sophisticated, | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
with the use of scanning technology and the ability to take a photograph | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
of a picture on the Internet, the very often will copy the logos and | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
trademarks of reputable companies, which makes it even harder to detect | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
that it is a scam? I thank him for making that point. He is correct. | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
The fact is, it seems to be that it is an ever rising tide and ever more | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
sophisticated in its focus. Talking about logos, they also use | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
governmental logos, the HM RC, for example, and other elements of | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
government. They also use logos which sort of a very close to | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
governmental logos and other such cause I institutions. He is right to | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
raise that. It is easy to come to snap judgments, and these people | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
come to snap judgments about themselves and their own | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
foolishness. This gentleman was no fool, he had run his own business | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
for more than 30 years. The scammers were not only persuasive at the | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
parade on his very best instincts. Especially the thought of how he | :18:50. | :18:51. | |
could help his children with the winnings. I would like to thank the | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
honourable member for Ayrshire and Arran, who is -- who co-signed this. | :18:57. | :19:08. | |
Other than the seven come to me to recount their stories of | :19:09. | :19:10. | |
constituents in that respect. I was struck by one from the honourable | :19:11. | :19:20. | |
member for Banbury, who told of one lady who was robbed of ?35,000 by | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
people who were standing by and -- who were pretending to be an | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
antifraud Department in her own bag. Her savings have not been returned. | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
It had a devastating impact, not just financial but emotional, on the | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
lady concerned. These stories are just two amongst thousands that | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
occur each and every year. It highlights why we need to do more to | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
combat this detestable style of crime. I would also like to thank | :19:50. | :19:56. | |
many external organisations that got in touch with me, especially those | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
that provided so much useful data and information, such as the | :20:01. | :20:02. | |
chartered Trading Standards institution, H UK, financial fraud | :20:03. | :20:12. | |
action UK, standard life and the consultancy. The cost of fraud is | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
truly astonishing. According to the chartered Trading Standards | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
Institute, the annual cost of frauds comes to the 2 billion -- ?252 | :20:23. | :20:30. | |
billion each year. That is more than we spend on defence or education. If | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
we cut that figure by 10%, we would be really injecting ?5 billion into | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
people's savings and into the wider economy itself. That would equate to | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
much of the economic boost that is coming recently through the payment | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
protection insurance that have taken place. I will give way. I am an | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
called to him for giving way and also for leading this debate. My | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
constituency, a quarter of the population is over the age of 65, | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
and with the average age of those who are being scammed being 74, my | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
constituents are particularly concerned about that. He mentioned | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
the financial cost, which is important, but these are some of the | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
most vulnerable in our society and our constituency so what being | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
scammed. It is not just the financial cost but also the human | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
cost as well. I could not agree more. The demographics of our | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
constituents in terms of age are very similar in that regard. 47% are | :21:32. | :21:38. | |
over sickly five on my constituency full sub 74 is the average age. It | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
is a case that the approach in main different ways, but they | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
instinctively target elderly people in the main, but not to the is of | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
anyone else. Older generations are often quite polite and they don't | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
want to put the phone down straight away. They might respond to a | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
letter. You enter a whole new world in terms of the information | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
gathering that these fraudsters have. The average cost is reported | :22:06. | :22:14. | |
to be ?1000 in fraud. It can be quite a lot higher. In my | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
constituency, I was staggered to find that the average cost is ?9,000 | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
for each event of fraud. Probably reflecting a relatively affluent | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
population but also the older population that we just discussed. | :22:27. | :22:34. | |
As I say, older people are disproportionate in being targets of | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
the scammers. At the same time, we must not forget that the youngest | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
reported victim that I had been alerted to was only 19. Can you | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
imagine, starting out in life as an adult and one of your first | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
experiences is to be hoodwinked by one of these despicable fraudsters. | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
It demonstrates that nobody is old enough to handle... Nobody old | :22:56. | :23:03. | |
enough to handle their finances cannot be complacent about the risk | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
of fraud. Being stung is only the start of the process. Details can be | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
sold on more than 200 times, putting them in the sights of much larger | :23:13. | :23:21. | |
pools of criminals. An astonishing 106,000 potential victims of fraud | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
were on come on target lists. In the language of these individuals, they | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
call these lists sucker lists. That is what they think of people. Our | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
investigations suggest that there are 560,000 people's names already | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
in circulation from the UK. We must not fall into the trap of | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
considering the financial costs. The social and human damage caused by | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
fraud can be just as severe. Indeed, according to the phone screening | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
service, the impact of scamming is comparable to that of violent crime. | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
There was a major depressive episode within 20 months of the crime, for | :24:06. | :24:17. | |
many of the victims. There is actual harm that scammers are marketing | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
fake medicines online. It is a particular problem, operation | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
Pangaea has been seizing these products as they come into the UK, | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
and people need to be aware of the danger of buying from these on -- | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
these online pharmacies, they need to be buying from repeatable | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
pharmacies in the UK, and there are logos they need to look at to make | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
sure they are buying from a repeatable pharmacy. I thank her for | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
that point. She would have come across this in her role on the | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
committee, and it is not just a case of being deported money, it can cost | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
you your life in the worst possible circumstances. As well as the | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
depressive episodes that can follow, there is also what is called a | :25:07. | :25:08. | |
generalised anxiety disorder which is suffered by 39% of victims, the | :25:09. | :25:17. | |
bed to 15% of non-victims. The stress they suffer can both | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
exacerbate pre-existing health conditions and induce post-traumatic | :25:22. | :25:30. | |
stress. Victims may have an expert at hospital admissions within three | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
months. The circles of these frauds, the effects on our wider society, | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
roll outwards and outwards. More horrifyingly, people who have been | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
defrauded our 2.5 times more likely to be in care or dead within two | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
years of the event itself. Scammers take so much more than cash, they | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
can rob us of our self-confidence, and elderly citizens of the ability | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
to live independently. Of course, we should not forget that people also | :25:59. | :26:06. | |
fight back. I have enjoyed reading stories of what I called scammed | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
baiters, who turned the tables on this product is, wasting their time | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
and making false of them. I particularly like one story I read | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
on the BBC a few years ago, where one gentleman managed to persuade a | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
Nigerian scammer 2-door themselves in bald pate to prove his dedication | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
to a made up religion. -- in wall paint. These knock-on effect on | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
personal independence and relationships at huge invisible | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
costs to the headline figures of fraud. | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
May I congratulate my honourable friend on the excellent case he is | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
making in a very important area. From personal experience I know that | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
some scammers concentrate on people beginning to suffer from short-term | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
memory loss. Can he explain to what extent that is a feature of this | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
phenomenon? And if it is a very significant feature, does it not | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
highlight the importance that people who are beginning to lose their | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
faculties should try it, wherever possible, to give power of attorney | :27:15. | :27:22. | |
to reliable relatives so that they are not vulnerable to being taken | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
advantage of in this way? Absolutely correct. And also, I think we need | :27:26. | :27:32. | |
to see greater training of bank staff as well. I know nationwide are | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
very good. They will spot signs of an individual being defrauded. I can | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
remember one case told to me by a grandmother about a lady on her | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
estate who went to the local nationwide and was trying to | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
withdraw several thousand pounds with two burly men beside her. It | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
was to do with fake repairs, as usual. Nationwide must be commended | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
for stopping that from happening. I the post office is like that as | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
well. The honourable gentleman is quite right to make that link in | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
terms of the fact that because of longevity instances, there are | :28:12. | :28:26. | |
increasing instances of... Overall these knock-on effects on personal | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
dependence and relationship have had huge costs to the headline figures | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
mentioned before, both by increasing demand for state support and simply, | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
in terms of human misery. One of the reasons fraud is so difficult to | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
tackle is that it can take so many different forms. Con artists are | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
adept at exploiting people's unfamiliarity with the technical | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
aspect of a product or service in order to trick them. And they are | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
quick to exploit the latest news story or government initiative. | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
Sometimes this is simply an effort to exploit our generosity after a | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
national disaster, by posing as somebody in need of disaster relief. | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
E-mails suddenly coming from disaster zones and asking for help | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
is a common trick fraudsters. I haven't several constituents visit | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
my surgeries, and I'm sure other honourable members have as well, to | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
complain to me that insurers would allow them to take money out of | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
their funds to invest in a regular investments, allowing people to sell | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
them worthless stocks. I have had to be very clear to these individuals | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
that their insurers are perfectly right and they should never put | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
their pension at risk. I encourage other members of this House to | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
remain vigilant if they hear stories themselves. This pensions unlocking, | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
as it is called, is just one way that con artists are trying to | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
exploit the government's new, more liberal pensions system. I fully | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
support the government in its desire to give more power to individual | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
savers. But cases like these highlight how important it is to | :30:04. | :30:05. | |
have antifraud protection is developed alongside policies rather | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
than afterwards. And this also applies to our regulators as well. | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
Impersonating banks is another very common form of financial fraud. As | :30:17. | :30:25. | |
my honourable friend, -- as my honourable friend discovered, | :30:26. | :30:32. | |
scammers are scanning individually for passwords and pin numbers, | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
security systems become more complex. FFA UK reported that in | :30:37. | :30:46. | |
2015 losses to financial fraud totalled 755 million. That is only | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
what it is reported. Worryingly, this represented a 26% increase on | :30:50. | :30:58. | |
2014, despite card Company security systems intercepting and preventing | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
1.76 billion of fraud. Our ?7 in every ?10 of potential losses. Fraud | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
is also flourishing on the Internet. According to consumer group Which? | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
More than 5 million scams work carried out online last year. An | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
astonishing 9 billion was lost to fraudsters. They also report that | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
six out of ten of us report being targeted by online scammers up to | :31:23. | :31:30. | |
May this year. I am being forever asked to wire money to parts of the | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
world. The most common types of fraud are fishing e-mails. They | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
usually pretend to be from a bank or a senior official. Seeking money and | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
bogus computer support. Yet alongside this cutting-edge macro | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
crime, the more traditional forms of fraud flourished as well. For | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
straight men, tricking people into paying extortionate amounts were | :31:56. | :32:05. | |
unnecessary work. Their cover for burglary as well. I want to read a | :32:06. | :32:18. | |
case in question. It involved a 78 Dirrell pensioner from Lincolnshire | :32:19. | :32:20. | |
who lived alone and was isolated from family. -- 78-year-old. He was | :32:21. | :32:27. | |
conned out of his house by conmen who convinced him major repair work | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
was needed on his property. After being cold cold and visited, he | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
agreed to will part of his property in return for the work being carried | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
out. However, the documents he signed actually gave the house to | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
the scammers, who then placed him in a caravan park. It was only the | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
victim's testimony in court that guaranteed there was a conviction. | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
The others involved have no doubt there were other, silent victims who | :32:56. | :33:04. | |
have lost homes in this way. The huge financial and human cost of | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
fraud make the case for action clear. But the problem could be more | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
serious than we realise. The chartered Trading Standards | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
Institute believe only 5% of scammers are ever reported. Fear and | :33:16. | :33:22. | |
shame keeps victims silent. There are already some very strong efforts | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
in this area, in addition to preventative measures by banks and | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
card companies. Trading Standards has been collaborating with | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
charities and the police to offer better protection to victims. For | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
example, there has been a concerted effort to provide previous victims | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
and those whose age helps make them likely to be victimised, with call | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
blockers. These have so far protected 1600 vulnerable people and | :33:49. | :33:59. | |
blocked 98% of nuisance calls. Based on the overall statistics, they | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
estimate that more than 11,500 scammers that would have been | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
carried out have been stopped. -- scammers. Expanding Trading | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
Standards would make these efforts more effective. More needs to be | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
done. Especially when the resale of personal information makes people so | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
vulnerable to crimes such as identity theft. | :34:22. | :34:33. | |
-- legal harvest Inc of personal data can put... It can be done by | :34:34. | :34:45. | |
clicking a box or a newsletter are signing up to something, and your | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
information going to the. I do not believe people know what they are | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
signing up to and they do not have the transparency. What happens is | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
that maybe the first few purchases -- purchasers of that information | :34:59. | :35:00. | |
may be one of fighting. But further down this gave you wind holding | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
companies buying this information to act for fraudsters as a front. | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
Despite the fact that 85% of people, a huge majority, thinks that | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
business has an equal or greater responsibility to protect consumers | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
from fraud, the cyber security survey found that only 5% of firms, | :35:23. | :35:30. | |
just 5%, invested on monitoring hacks of their system, despite more | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
than six in ten reporting breaches. I know from personal experience that | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
some banks of a long way to go in the run security arrangements. | :35:40. | :35:41. | |
Currently -- very recently HSBC asked my wife for some sensitive | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
information to be sent to a private e-mail address. This was legitimate. | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
It was bone fide. But what on earth is a bank doing allowing private and | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
sensitive information to go outside its own network? Some firms reported | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
to me the astonishing claim that some of our current systems work | :36:03. | :36:04. | |
against responsible corporate behaviour. A partner in a financial | :36:05. | :36:12. | |
consultancy firm wrote to me to explain that the financial ombudsman | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
service is holding his firm accountable for losses incurred by | :36:17. | :36:18. | |
some very risky and frankly quite murky sounding investments. His firm | :36:19. | :36:25. | |
clearly warned their clients away from it. In fact, one adjudicator at | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
the ombudsman service said the firm should have refused to advise the | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
people involved. Alchemy have a system that makes it harder for | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
people to engage in potentially problematic and risky investments? | :36:41. | :36:48. | |
-- how can we have a system? It is essential our regulators are | :36:49. | :36:55. | |
focused. Dodgy schemes blur the line to a legitimate business. Do not | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
unfairly penalise those trying to help. Another area where the | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
government can make a real differences by stress testing | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
policies and building antifraud protections into them as they are | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
developed, rather than waiting until afterwards. I know there have been | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
some strides made in the Cabinet office in terms of sharing | :37:17. | :37:18. | |
information across government to track down fraudsters, for example, | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
over benefits and other such financial positions. | :37:24. | :37:31. | |
I congratulate the honourable member on an excellent speech. Can I | :37:32. | :37:33. | |
underline very strongly the point he made earlier about government | :37:34. | :37:42. | |
schemes? The honourable member referred to pensions. In South Wales | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
particularly in recent years they have been targeted by Green Deal | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
scams. I agree wholeheartedly that it is important government building | :37:52. | :37:53. | |
safeguards in developing policies to avoid people being scammed off the | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
back of a legitimate government scheme. Very good point. I can | :37:58. | :38:05. | |
remember when tax credits were launched and the fraud that took | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
place them in that respect. It does seem to be that they cotton on | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
incredibly quickly, the fraudsters, to what is going on, and they see | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
the opportunities. They seem incredibly flexible. They are very | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
quick to move on to any new opportunity. It can cost the | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
government hundreds of millions of pounds, for example, by exploiting | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
the Green Deal. The tax credit proved vulnerable to such a point | :38:32. | :38:39. | |
that the online portal set up to claim was still there ten years | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
later. Much of the advice on offer, despite the best of intentions, is | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
too cautious and contains too much room for doubt. There is too much | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
reliance on caveat emptor. It would be better to lay out some clearer | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
rules. If a tradesman knocks on your daughters say that need surprise | :38:57. | :39:03. | |
repairs, just say no. Thank him or her, and if you're worried, call a | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
reputable professional yourself. If someone tries to convince you that | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
you have won a lottery you did not enter, just say no. This never | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
happens, ever. We cannot be clear enough on this point. If someone | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
tries to persuade you to make a risky investment with your pension, | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
just say no. That precious investment has to look after you in | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
your old age. If you want to invest, it always takes time to seek proper | :39:29. | :39:38. | |
independent financial advice. Is he worried, in the same way that | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
I am, with the number of people who do respond? The moment people of -- | :39:42. | :39:50. | |
respond to one, I had a case of someone getting between ten and 20 a | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
day. These are coming from abroad, which means they cannot be | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
intercepted. This is causing a lot of heartache to vulnerable people. | :39:58. | :40:06. | |
Before the honourable gentleman response to the intervention, I | :40:07. | :40:08. | |
appreciate he's making some extremely important points and the | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
House is attentive, but he will appreciate there are a great many | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
people who want to speak this afternoon not only in this debate | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
but in the next one, and I am sure he will conclude very soon. | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
I am actually on my last paragraph in that respect. Thank you for | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
reminding me. As I say, yes, the honourable gentleman is absolutely | :40:30. | :40:32. | |
correct in that respect. The Post Office doors, if you are alerted to | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
this particular situation, they will stop mail and set up a scam mailbox | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
for you in that regard, which is a good initiative. But we need to say | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
more about this. In conclusion, Madame Deputy Speaker, fraud is a | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
detestable sort of crime that preys on our worst fears and best | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
instincts. I hope that together, with the police and other | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
organisations and across government, we can start to stamp it out. | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
The question is as on the order paper. Before I call the co-sponsor | :41:03. | :41:10. | |
of the motion, as I just said, a great many people wish to speak on | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
this debate, and the next one this afternoon. I have to impose a time | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
limit on backbench speeches of five minutes. That doesn't apply to the | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
next speaker, who is deemed to be the spokesman for her party, | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
Patricia Gibson. I'm delighted to co-sponsor this motion today. It is | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
important to the member of Solihull, with whom I have sparred in the | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
past, but who I am in agreement with today. The cost of scamming on our | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
society is huge and this cost cannot be counted in terms of pounds and | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
pence, although the financial cost is significant. Scamming does not | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
exclusively but disproportionately affects the elderly and honourable | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
men is about amenities, and this is becoming greater with each passing | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
day. The Office for National Statistics predicts the number of | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
elderly people living in our communities will increase by 34% | :42:10. | :42:16. | |
from 11.6 million to 15.7 million by 2030. Those living with dementia | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
will increase from 850,000 to 2.1 million people by 2030. The people | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
who perpetrate these schemes use a sophisticated techniques to | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
repeatedly scammed their victims, whilst Trading Standards, hard | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
pressed as they are, are working on the front line to do all they can to | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
safeguard them honourable. The most sinister, the most cynical and cruel | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
aspect of scamming is that it is criminal activity that targets those | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
who are the most about trouble in their very own home. The one place | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
where any of us should feel most safe becomes the setting for conning | :43:02. | :43:09. | |
people out of their money by sales scripts, data collection and | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
targeted mail. Scams can range from pension fraud, bogus equity release | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
schemes, fictitious prize draws, false investment opportunities, | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
upfront payments to release lottery wins, upfront payments for building | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
work that is either never started or never completed, or investment scams | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
and so on. The most common telephone scams are called false -- cold | :43:34. | :43:52. | |
calls. I have something that I will discuss the creek, but I'm excited | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
about it. Scamming has been shown to have an impact on physical | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
well-being. At worst, the impact of scams can ruin lives, split | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
families, with the consequences lasting long beyond the initial | :44:07. | :44:13. | |
trauma of financial loss. Even though financial losses are | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
comparatively low, scams still lead to a breakdown in consumer | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
confidence. The full effects of the harm caused by scams is really | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
difficult to estimate as only around 5% of victims report they have lost | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
money. We know the average victim loses around ?1000, but we also know | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
that many loose hundreds of thousands of pounds. We know that | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
victims of scams often feel very embarrassed and afraid that their | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
families will judge them as no longer able to live on their own, | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
which can also lead to scams not being reported, and thereby leaving | :44:48. | :44:55. | |
Victim Support and and vulnerable to repeat scams. -- leaving victims | :44:56. | :45:04. | |
open. People find it difficult to admit they have been a victim of a | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
crime. Let us not forget the impact of dementia and other impairments, | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
which makes it vulnerability more pronounced and the ability to | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
repeatedly target an individual much more possible. As the honourable | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
gentleman from Solihull pointed out, it has been demonstrated that | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
victims of scams are nearly 2.5 times more likely to require | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
increased care provision, or be dead, within the two years | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
subsequent to being a victim of scamming. It is reported that scam | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
victims often experience a rapid drop in physical health after the | :45:41. | :45:43. | |
realisation that they have been scammed. The scale of the problem | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
and its associated costs are absolutely huge. Alongside this | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
growing problem, we all know that Trading Standards are struggling to | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
cope, although the work they do is worthy of very high praise and | :45:59. | :46:05. | |
demands our respect. I also want to highlight the excellent work carried | :46:06. | :46:13. | |
out by an organisation called CIFAS, which shares confirmed fraud data, | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
and they prevented more than 1 billion in fraud loss by sharing | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
data across sectors. In my own constituency of North Ayrshire and | :46:24. | :46:31. | |
Aaron, it showed that 270 frauds took place. But we know that this is | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
a mere snapshot of the true level of fraud, which is likely to be much, | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
much higher. At this stage, I also want to single out for particular | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
praise murmurs of my constituency who carried out a range of activity | :46:53. | :47:01. | |
to provide awareness of scamming amongst clients, working in | :47:02. | :47:03. | |
partnership with local community groups, the third sector, police | :47:04. | :47:14. | |
Scotland and others. Kenneth Gibson, MSP, why mention in the interest of | :47:15. | :47:22. | |
domestic harmony, was involved as well. Scams do so much more than rob | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
people of their money. It robs them of their confidence, their belief in | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
themselves, their own judgment, their self-esteem, their wedding | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
this to trust people, -- their willingness to trust people. It also | :47:37. | :47:43. | |
robs them of their ability to live full, happy and independent lives. | :47:44. | :47:46. | |
What makes all of us vulnerable to scams is shown by research carried | :47:47. | :47:54. | |
out by Which. All of us are confident about our ability to spot | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
fake scam -- spot a scam, which begs us more vulnerable. The gap between | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
confidence and ability is dangerous. So what can we do about this | :48:05. | :48:09. | |
problem? I absolutely agree with the suggestion put forward by trading | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
standards that financial institution should recognise that consumers, | :48:14. | :48:20. | |
clients with dementia are by definition more at risk of being | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
scammed, and measures need to be taken to protect this group as a | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
duty of care. Those who are diagnosed with dementia live with | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
the cognitive impairment, and this must be recognised. The sharing of | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
personal details and information to other organisations should require a | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
clear opt in as opposed to an opt out. It should also be the case that | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
the normal evil position of charities and other organisations | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
should be that personal details are not passed on or shared, except to | :48:52. | :48:59. | |
report a safeguarding concern when there is a suspicion that a person | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
may be at risk or harm of scamming. In addition, customers should be | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
able to formally notify their bank in writing, stating that they feel | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
at risk, and request that all transactions over a certain amount | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
have a 24 hour delay before being processed. This will allow time for | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
the transaction to be challenged and potentially stopped. These sensible | :49:25. | :49:32. | |
and fairly straightforward measures would do much to protect those most | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
at risk of scamming. The elderly and the vulnerable in our communities. I | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
urge the Minister to reflect on these proposals to help us tackle | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
these problems to help us tackle the problem which confronts people who | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
are robbed in their very own homes. Subsequently, they find the | :49:55. | :50:01. | |
experience scarring. The effects are far reaching indeed. Let's do more | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
to protect the victims of scams, it is the least we can do. Minister. | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
Thank you very much indeed. I wholeheartedly congratulate the | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
honourable members for North Ayrshire and for Solihull for | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
securing this really important debate. I know they have a | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
long-standing interest in tackling scamming, especially when honourable | :50:24. | :50:30. | |
individuals are the victims. They have set out the wide rage of harm | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
-- range of harm that scammers can cause. I would like to assure the | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
House that tackling scams is a priority for this government. Scams | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
can have a devastating impact, particularly on the most moral | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
people -- most vulnerable people in society. It can affect us any time. | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
We are more likely to be a victim of fraud than any other crime. When | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
caught out, we can sometimes feel ashamed, not want to admit that we | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
been hoodwinked. This can make it hard to get a full sense of the | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
problem. It is really important that we do all we can to understand it | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
and respond, which is why I welcome this debate today. We know that | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
older people are more at risk. The National Trading Standards scams | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
team says the typical person may provide support to is 74 years old | :51:25. | :51:31. | |
and living alone. This is why I welcome the work of Bournemouth | :51:32. | :51:38. | |
University and the chartered standards Institute to investigate | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
the impact of scams on older people. Their report on financial scamming | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
earlier this year set out clear recommendations for action by | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
government, charities, private institutions and banks. Much of this | :51:51. | :51:58. | |
debate is focusing on the recommendations, and I will address | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
those directly. For the first recommendation, it was that all | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
agencies, including banks, should recognise the duty of care to those | :52:07. | :52:10. | |
with dementia. And to take measures to protect them. Second was to | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
strengthen rules around data protection, to reduce the risk of | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
vulnerable people ending up on suckers lists, and which are used by | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
scammers to target their scams, and thirdly to introduce safeguards at | :52:30. | :52:31. | |
banks and building societies to prevent those who fear they are at | :52:32. | :52:41. | |
risk from becoming victims. I thank for the interest she is taking | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
interest in this. I know from personal experience that is | :52:45. | :52:47. | |
difficult to get a bank to take action unless somebody already has | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
given power of attorney, as I said in my earlier intervention, and when | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
this happened to someone close to me and I told the bank concerned that I | :52:59. | :53:04. | |
needed to be tipped off if there was any unusual withdraws, nothing | :53:05. | :53:11. | |
really happened until a particular alert cashier, on her own | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
initiative, did that. After five years, I eventually got the | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
fraudster to repay all the money and pay the costs of the case. Could she | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
do everything possible to persuade the banks that, even if the power of | :53:25. | :53:30. | |
attorney is not in place, if a worried close relative asks them to | :53:31. | :53:37. | |
monitor regular withdrawals or unusual transactions, that they have | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
procedures in place to do that? -- in regular withdrawals. | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
It affects the point that our honourable friend from Solihull made | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
that some banks have good procedures in place, and some don't. Some staff | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
have been well trained and some haven't. We need to ensure that | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
every person working in the bank is as good as those who are identified | :54:04. | :54:12. | |
by the Nationwide, as mentioned by the member from Solihull. I will | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
come to the point about what they can do to protect their customers. I | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
am pleased to report to the House that the Government, regulators and | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
private companies are responding strongly to the recommendations that | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
I have outlined. First of all, the Government has taken action more | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
widely on the issue of nuisance calls, including a new requirement | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
for all direct marketing callers to provide caller line identification. | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
This came into effect on the sick thing to me. The major increases | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
consumer choice, making it easier for people to identify direct | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
marketing calls and choose whether to accept them or not. It also | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
increases the ability to investigate such calls. The governor also plans | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
to bring forward a digital economy Bill. It will introduce a measure, | :55:11. | :55:25. | |
making it requirement to introduce a statutory... Will she address the | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
fines that are meted out when people breach the rules. There was a case | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
of a pharmacy which sold on, disgracefully, the details of more | :55:38. | :55:39. | |
than 20,000 of its customers, many of them vulnerable to other | :55:40. | :55:49. | |
marketing companies. A fine of ?130,000 is derisory and no | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
meaningful deterrent. As always, she makes a powerful point. I'm sure as | :55:54. | :56:00. | |
those who are as possible for drafting these issues is aware of | :56:01. | :56:14. | |
that, but also we need to make sure there is sufficient deterrent from | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
undertaking these crimes in the first place by the regime of | :56:18. | :56:19. | |
punishments that put place, including fines. Overall, the code | :56:20. | :56:27. | |
of practice will wholeheartedly be behind the reduction in the number | :56:28. | :56:33. | |
of direct marketing course, and to make it much easier for the | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
information Commissioner is to take action against organisations in | :56:37. | :56:38. | |
breach of those rules. The Trading Standards scams team are | :56:39. | :56:50. | |
working with the British banking Association, the building society | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
associations and others to produce a new banking protocol for doorstep | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
crime and other scam issues discovered that branch level. The | :57:01. | :57:02. | |
Financial Conduct Authority is building on this. Their ageing | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
population strategy will consider how older consumers engage in | :57:09. | :57:10. | |
financial services and make best use of the products and services they | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
use. The Financial Conduct Authority intends to release regulatory | :57:17. | :57:18. | |
strategy and recommendations by 2017. | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
I am grateful to the minister forgiving way. She mentions Trading | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
Standards. Can I advise her to praise the work of Dorset and Poole | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
Trading Standards, who can only do their work of the victims come | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
forward. That is the only way successful prosecutions can be | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
secured. Can I invite her to continue with her work with Trading | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
Standards in highlighting the important work they do. My right | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
honourable friend raises an important point about Trading | :57:52. | :57:54. | |
Standards. My own team in Cornwall do an excellent job. I should point | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
out that in addition to the vital work they do in all of our | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
communities, they are supported by national bodies, one in Scotland and | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
one for England and Wales. A lot of these activities related to | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
organised and serious crime. These national bodies to make money | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
available to support where we have seen particular instances of | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
scamming in the community. That national and local working is a | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
really good model. Following on from scandals that we saw in 2015 that | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
highlighted on charitable fundraising practices, a new | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
fundraising regulator has been established, chaired by Lord grade | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
of Yarmouth. This independent regulator is tasked to set high | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
standards of fundraising practices and to deal with public complaints | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
when they have been breached. It has a range of sanctions and can refer | :58:51. | :58:53. | |
serious noncompliance or abuse to the regular treat -- to the | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
regulator. The scams team have also been working with the Royal Mail and | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
other postal operators, training over 2000 postmen and women to spot | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
scam letters. Already more than 700 vulnerable households have been | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
identified and are getting support. Even more importantly, contracts to | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
carry the mail are being cancelled. Stopping the letters from getting | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
into the intended victims in the first place. So enforcement is | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
important in tackling this crime. This is why the Home Office launched | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
a joint fraud task force in February of this year. The task force | :59:32. | :59:37. | |
includes amongst others the City of London police, the national crime is | :59:38. | :59:42. | |
the, financial fraud action UK, Bank of England, national Trading | :59:43. | :59:49. | |
Standards and Age UK. The task force is a ready good example of the | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
approach we are taking to crime prevention. This is very much the | :59:55. | :59:57. | |
focus of the modern crime prevention strategy. It was published in March | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
this year. Its key themes about working together to understand the | :00:03. | :00:08. | |
drivers of crime, why and how they create -- committed, and working | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
together to stay one step ahead of the criminals to prevent more crime | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
happening in the future. The work of the task force oversight board is an | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
excellent example of such collaboration. It brings government, | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
law enforcement and industry together in a focused way to develop | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
a cure and common understanding about the changing nature and how we | :00:28. | :00:35. | |
can take action against it. In its first few months alone, the task | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
force has demonstrated it is working effectively. Improved data sharing | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
has let banks to close hundreds of accounts linked to fraud. Bank | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
branches in London alongside the Met and Trading Standards are | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
introducing a new fraud intervention scheme. And prolific fraudsters have | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
been arrested since the launch of a new campaign in July. So I can | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
assure honourable members that the government regards tackling scamming | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
as a priority. And we will continue to work with national and local | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
partners to address the issues raised today, and to do everything | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
we can to prevent the horrendous consequences of the scams we have | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
heard about today. And to enable far more of the good work that we have | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
seen. Irony want to highlight one extremely good example I came across | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
from Trading Standards in Scotland. They funded and coordinated a | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
project which saw the installation of more than 200 blocking devices in | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
vulnerable consumers homes. These devices blocked 90% of nuisance | :01:41. | :01:50. | |
calls. The impact the preventing scam cannot be underestimated. | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
Trading Standards Scotland estimate the resultant savings to individuals | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
and the public purse is between ?3000 and ?7,000 per call blocker. | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
But really what we're here to do today is to think about the effect | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
on people. And I want to read out to you a quote from one of the | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
beneficiaries of this scheme, which really illustrates its treat human | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
value. She says, I have my life back. I am nearly 70. And I think, | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
how did I let people like this get to meet? My son is ill and cannot | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
protect me. I have had to get police protection in the past four nuisance | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
calls. Now I can protect myself. It is marvellous. I feel in control. We | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
can sit and have a cup of tea without being disturbed. Even the | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
dog macro is less stressed. So to conclude, I would like to repeat my | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
thanks to the honourable members for North Ayrshire and Arran, and for | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
Soliola, for securing this really important debate. -- Solihull. I | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
will be listening to the contributions of all members today. | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
And I can assure all members here of our utter determination to tackle | :03:03. | :03:12. | |
this dreadful criminal activity. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
would like to congratulate and thank the honourable members for securing | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
this debate. On a subject that I must confess I did not know nearly | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
enough about. But I do know now that my own constituency is affected by | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
scams in the same way many other members are. One of the local police | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
divisions informs me that the main type of scam taking place is one | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
referred to earlier where crooks preferred -- pretends to be from the | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
bank and they state that unusual activity is happening on the | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
victim's account. Information is requested and a safe count, | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
so-called, set up. The victim is asked to transfer the money into | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
that account. That is almost the opposite of safe. Another officer | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
informs me that we are talking about large sums of money being taken with | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
an equally large impact on the victim. It seems a lot of | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
productivity goes unreported as persons feel ashamed at being caught | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
out by such scams. This is the picture all across the country, with | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
the average victim 74 years old, the average lost ?1000, but with many | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
moved -- losing more. Yet only 5% of victims report having been scammed | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
to the authorities. I have been astonished to learn about the scale | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
of the problem, the number of people losing out, the financial losses | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
resulting, the range of industries are affected, the different types of | :04:39. | :04:46. | |
scam and technologies. The only thing less of a surprise is the | :04:47. | :04:54. | |
personal distress and misery caused. I was horrified to read that the | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
victims of mass marketing type fraud, in particular, are also -- | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
often placed on the so-called suckers list. Anything that can be | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
done to clamp down on that practice must be done. It is all rather | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
depressing reading. How do we go about the task of preventing and | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
bringing scam perpetrators to justice? We all have a | :05:20. | :05:21. | |
responsibility in raising awareness by highlighting scams are fraud by | :05:22. | :05:29. | |
supporting scorpion and backing campaigns such as scam awareness | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
month and the scams information leaflet from Age UK. I confess that | :05:34. | :05:43. | |
action fraud evaded me until a few months ago. I will make sure many of | :05:44. | :05:53. | |
my constituents know about it. Things are easy to forget under | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
pressure particular leaf of vulnerable people. If it is too good | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
to be true, it definitely is. Especially if it is a cold call. | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
Take expert advice. Your local citizens Advice Bureau is happy to | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
help. Do not be scared to doubt someone's honesty if they are asking | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
you to part with cash. It is difficult for a lot of people to do. | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
I appreciate that he is taking this information as well from Citizens | :06:22. | :06:29. | |
Advice. A lot of time has been used already. I am very concerned. We | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
have an oversubscribed debate next. We are going to use more time. So | :06:34. | :06:41. | |
please come if we can try to contract. I think you are going to | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
come back with two minutes in the end. | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
Maybe not! Carry on. The point I was making is we should encourage people | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
not to be scared about dating a person's honesty when they are | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
asking them to part with cash. Unfortunately, that is something | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
some vulnerable people are scared to do. Of course, that is exactly what | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
makes them vulnerable. We have to encourage them to see there is no | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
downside to that. Honest people will not be upset by being challenged in | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
that way. We must also encourage people to report not only might that | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
help see justice done and perhaps even some redress, but it also helps | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
with other people falling victim, too. This can only take this so far | :07:25. | :07:32. | |
when scams are increasing all the time. It cannot be relied upon to | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
protect significant numbers of people in crucial moments when they | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
are being handed for their cash. So going beyond a rate -- awareness | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
raising, the proposals by the chartered Trading Standards | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
Institute and Bournemouth University, and other suggestions | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
today, provide important pointers of the steps that can be taken. My | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
honourable friend highlighted this and it does seem an attractive | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
proposition, the idea of an opt in procedure so that any significant | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
transactions from an account held by a vulnerable person, there is a | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
24-hour stop put on that while they nominated representative is | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
contacted to provide an opportunity to challenge that transaction. It | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
really should be close to impossible for a vulnerable person to transfer | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
their entire contents of their bank account to somebody else without | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
major questions being asked. We also need to think carefully about | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
increasing resources, invest in tackling this problem. Not only | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
public money but time and money invested by companies protecting | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
their most vulnerable customers and clients. I will be happy to sign up | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
to become a scam ambassador. I know that many other honourable members | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
will do so as well. The fightback against these wicked and callous | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
fraudsters deserves all the support it can get. | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I would like to thank my honourable friend | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
for bringing this important debate to the floor of the House. I'm going | :09:08. | :09:14. | |
to focus on scams targeted at the elderly. As chair of the All Party | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
Parliamentary Group on Iran and older people, I hosted the first | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
debate of a commission which offered a listening exercise for older | :09:23. | :09:32. | |
people. It asked them about their concerns and what they feared most | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
about staying safe. Their concerns around scamming more profound. Based | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
on projections from national data, the commission estimated that could | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
be as many as 13,000 cases in Sussex alone in any year. For example, the | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
commission heard that one man's elderly brother was dying of cancer | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
and quite frail. He was persuaded to pay ?2000 for a roof and damp | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
repairs. A couple aged 85 and 86 were scammed out of ?8,000 through a | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
postal scam and their daughter lost money in the process of trying to | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
recover the funds. Another woman was charged ?450 for minor building | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
repairs that were subsequently valued at ?30. Scams targeted at | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
elderly people, purposefully target vulnerable people. The perpetrators | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
see people who are more trusting and less inquisitive. They may be less | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
mobile and easily cornered. Perhaps they are lonely and isolated and | :10:36. | :10:37. | |
therefore welcoming of contact for minor building repairs that were | :10:38. | :10:39. | |
subsequently valued at ?30. Scams targeted at elderly people, | :10:40. | :10:41. | |
purposefully target vulnerable people. The perpetrators see people | :10:42. | :10:43. | |
who are more trusting and less inquisitive. They may be less mobile | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
and easily cornered. Perhaps they are lonely and isolated and | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
therefore welcoming of contact from other people. They may be more keen | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
to make sure that someone leaves them alone and therefore more | :10:51. | :10:52. | |
willing to pay a price in order to get rid of them, just because it is | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
easier. And also, as we have heard earlier, if you are an older person, | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
you might not have all your faculties. You might not be aware of | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
what is going on. Or that you are a victim of scamming. The scammers | :11:02. | :11:03. | |
prey on these characteristics, particularly the vulnerability and | :11:04. | :11:05. | |
isolation of older people, even worse, they can pull it off when the | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
person is at their own front door sitting in their own living room | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
using their own phone, opening their own poster responding to what seems | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
like a personal e-mail. As a result, one in five older people in Sussex | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
are afraid to answer their own phone in their own home. These scams are | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
not always carried out by strangers. They might begin to did by members | :11:27. | :11:39. | |
of their own family, or carers or close friends. Adult social services | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
received allegations of 21,935 cases of theft and fraud against elderly | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
that Tim 's -- in the 12 months. Age UK is doing good work on my own | :11:49. | :12:13. | |
constituency, where the average victim loses ?23,000 over a 12 month | :12:14. | :12:21. | |
period. They provide support services give victims. As a society, | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
we also need to do more to encourage family members to better protect and | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
look after their elderly relatives. Investing in hidden cameras in a | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
bulletin's home because it makes it easier for police to catch regular | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
perpetrators. Call blocking technology that we have heard about | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
is incredibly difficult for older people to install, we should | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
encourage family members to do that. There is a duty of care for both the | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
workers and bank staff. But it must go further. I would also like to | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
suggest that scans older link -- targeting the elderly be | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
recategorised as a different crime, as they are aimed at the vulnerable. | :13:10. | :13:20. | |
We already treat child abuse as a separate crime and while I obviously | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
recognise the real differences between physical child abuse and | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
scams against the elderly, both or especially Republican and because | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
the target those are least able to defend and protect themselves. In | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
San Diego in America, they have an official Elder abuse investigation | :13:37. | :13:47. | |
unit. I would urge we make it a priority. Reporting of elder abuse | :13:48. | :13:55. | |
is mandatory. It makes it easier to collect evidence and prosecute. In | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
the case worker is assigned to each person who is a victim of a scam. | :14:02. | :14:12. | |
Order! And sorry. Speak to your colleagues. -- I am sorry, I'm | :14:13. | :14:22. | |
speaking to your colleagues. I thank them for securing the debate today. | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
We have already heard some of the atrocious cases of scamming of those | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
who are most vulnerable. Some victims have been forced to | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
remortgage or even sell their homes to cover costs. I would like to draw | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
the House's attention to a case in Wales. Up to May 2016, the 8774 | :14:44. | :14:53. | |
victims of fraud reported. It is estimated that only 5% of scamming | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
victims report being scammed to reality, so the reality is much | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
worse. I would like to briefly highlight once, that has affected a | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
number of my constituents. They have been targeted by an automated voice | :15:08. | :15:16. | |
mail system that has allegedly come from Revenue and Customs, and the | :15:17. | :15:24. | |
person asks for a number of personal details including National Insurance | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
numbers. A person claiming to be from age is a -- from HM RC is a | :15:31. | :15:46. | |
common scam. People are often caught out, and they are unclear about | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
where they can go to report what has happened to them. Many would argue, | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
Mr Deputy Speaker, that scamming in some of our constituencies is at | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
crisis point. It will only get worse if it is not given the attention it | :16:01. | :16:09. | |
needs. We haven't ageing population and -- we have an ageing population, | :16:10. | :16:17. | |
and an increase in the number of people with dementia. We have new | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
avenues for fraudsters to explore. Year-to-year, a 50% increase -- 58% | :16:24. | :16:32. | |
increase in suspect course. It is difficult to assess the effect of | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
scamming today due to the fact that so many victims choose not to report | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
the crimes. We can say with certainty that it will increase in | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
future. The ONS predict that a 5% increase in elderly abuse will | :16:46. | :16:53. | |
transpire by 2030. We must recognise this is a tremendous problem. I'm | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
glad that we have had the opportunity to highlight this today. | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
It is our duty in this House not only to draw attention to the issue | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
of scamming and its effects on individuals but to also to look | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
towards solutions. There needs to be sufficient support for those falling | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
foul of it. Trading Standards continue to do excellent work, but | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
Budget cuts means they cannot reach their potential. Call blocking | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
projects have done wonders to tackle the issue but they can only continue | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
with sufficient funding. It is unacceptable that there has been a | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
53% cut to front-line officers of Trading Standards since 2009. There | :17:37. | :17:44. | |
can be no denial that this has into bitter to the issue. -- contributed | :17:45. | :17:53. | |
to the issue. We must also invest in the police to allow them to raise | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
awareness. In the scam in my constituency, South Wales police | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
have worked locally to help people know about the issue via social | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
media, and it has reached hundreds of thousands of people across the | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
South Wales area. The Government must make suggestions on further | :18:10. | :18:12. | |
steps to tackle such commonality, and cuts cannot continue without | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
consideration of consequences. I'm glad we have mothers from both sides | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
of the chamber today to consider the issue, and there is a consensus on | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
it, and we have common ground on the problem. We cannot ignore the fact | :18:29. | :18:30. | |
that governed cuts have contributed to the dilemma and I would urge the | :18:31. | :18:39. | |
government to examine the issue and to invest in front-line services to | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
tackle the problem. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I congratulate my | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
honourable friend for securing this important debate. I'm sure, like all | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
members, I have experienced constituents at my surgery tearing | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
their hair out and almost in tears following a number of scams. I want | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
to focus on two particular issues if time permits. Both work perpetrated | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
against professional people who did all the appropriate checks. I want | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
to highlight the fact that they feel let down by the investigatory and | :19:14. | :19:23. | |
regulatory authorities. One couple lost ?19,000 as a result of an | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
investment in a carbon offset scheme, and another couple lost | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
?38,000. The reality, Mr Deputy Speaker, is that if these couples | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
have had their home burgled and lost those amounts of money, it is fair | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
to say they would have had a more positive response from the police | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
and other authorities, and they were to have had an investigating officer | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
who they could personally contact. In the case I mentioned, reported to | :19:56. | :20:04. | |
Action Fraud, the correspondence they have had amounts to this. | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
Please find attached the report they have requested. We advise you to | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
keep this safe. More information can be found on our website. That is not | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
inspire confidence. Because this was a US-based investment, in despair, | :20:21. | :20:28. | |
my constituents were seeking help and support from the US authorities. | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
I must congratulate the New York police Department, who actually | :20:36. | :20:37. | |
looked into the matter, came back to them and the Lieutenant e-mailed | :20:38. | :20:47. | |
them, gave them his personal contact details and so on. That was a | :20:48. | :20:56. | |
positive and helpful response. I quote from an e-mail from the | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
constituents. My reason for writing is there appears to be little of the | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
practical nature that the UK government is doing to support the | :21:04. | :21:06. | |
victims of crime. I think it is fair to say, based on what the minister | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
said, we are having a more positive response. I would point out this was | :21:11. | :21:20. | |
written in 2014. We fell victim to an advisory scam, we wanted to | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
invest in an ethical investment. I did as much research as I did on the | :21:26. | :21:33. | |
Company and found little to dissuade us, although I was concerned about | :21:34. | :21:43. | |
the cold calling. I was told that they would be happy to do with me, | :21:44. | :21:52. | |
but I heard nothing. I was told by the police that they could not | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
investigate further until Action Fraud reverted back to them. -- | :21:57. | :22:04. | |
referred it back to them. I have no doubt it has happened and will | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
continue to happen to others. I wanted to let you know about the | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
inadequacies of the support offered to victims of this such crime. The | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
next involved what is a familiar scam, using the name of the well | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
established and reputable organisation. As we heard earlier, | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
being its contact details and letterheads and so on. Personal | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
contact was made between three suppose it investment brokers and my | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
constituent. They became very friendly and familiar with them. | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
Therefore, it built up confidence that they could invest safely. | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
Again, they did all the appropriate checks. Again, the had been referred | :22:59. | :23:00. | |
to action fraud. -- Action Fraud. We should ensure that more referrals | :23:01. | :23:14. | |
go back to the local police force so that action can be taken. I would | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
urge the Minister and her colleagues to do what they can to ensure that | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
our police and regulatory authorities take a much more serious | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
approach to these, when people are actually losing their life savings. | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
To be there, following my correspondent with Action Fraud, I | :23:35. | :23:41. | |
have been invited to a programme by the City of London police to tell me | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
of their activities. I hope that when I go they will be able to | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
report something more positive. The honourable member for Solihull made | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
mention of the chartered straight edge -- Trading Standards Institute. | :23:57. | :24:05. | |
Victims tend to be elderly and less likely to use the web, and we must | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
ensure that all mediums must be used to get the word out. One of the | :24:12. | :24:18. | |
constituents told my senior caseworker about an unsolicited call | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
he received from a company claiming his properly with incorrect it | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
banned it in terms of council tax. For a fee of six to 9.99, Baker -- | :24:27. | :24:49. | |
they would fix the issue. The service offered in the | :24:50. | :24:58. | |
unsolicited call was unnecessary. Other borough will constituents may | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
be affected by this company and they're very questionable practices. | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
My research staff looked into the history of the company which had | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
office moves and changes of directorship. I requested a refund | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
for my constituent but unfortunately the response was lamentable. My | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
office then reported the situation to the local Trading Standards team | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
on North Lanarkshire Council, who were extremely helpful. The fitted a | :25:26. | :25:47. | |
blocking device, constituent's phone. Unfortunately, my constituent | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
used a good card rather than a credit card so they were not able to | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
get their money back. There is enhanced user protection when using | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
a credit card. I am now aware of the company within my constituency which | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
has a record of dubious sales practices throughout Scotland. It | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
came to my attention when a man whose wife has dementia contacted | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
me. They made an unsolicited visit, offering an external cosmetic | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
service for the home. After taking an ?800 deposit, the Colony took | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
over ?6,000 work of unnecessary cosmetic work to the House. So keen | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
to get the money out of this couple, the company did not check to see if | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
they owned the property, which they did not. Further research shows they | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
claim to have a ten year guarantee. When -- on closer inspection, their | :26:46. | :26:54. | |
practice is to have several companies offering the same service. | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
The directors then fold the company when the heat becomes too great, | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
moving the main business to one of the many other companies, always | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
with the same two directors in charge. The guarantees are therefore | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
not even worth the paper they are written on. This shop business | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
practice also has a knock-on effect with communities, and creates | :27:14. | :27:15. | |
reputational risk to other bona fides companies in an increasingly | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
competitive market. It is difficult for consumers to work out which | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
companies are trustworthy and which are untrustworthy. | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
In many consumers believe that a ten year guarantee shows a company to be | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
trustworthy. In this case nothing could be further from the truth. I | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
also feel for the staff involved as they too may be unaware. I support | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
the honourable member for Soliola and my honourable friend from North | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
Ayrshire and Aaron, and orders the ministers to show the leadership | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
needed to coordinate a strong public service response to these despicable | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
practices. I want to join in congratulating my | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
honourable friend from Solihull and my honourable member from North | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
Ayrshire for securing this important debate. Financial scamming and fraud | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
has a devastating impact on the elderly and the vulnerable. We have | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
heard today from members on both sides of the House stories about | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
financial loss and the incredible mental distress caused to people, | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
many of whom are among the most vulnerable in our society. Each of | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
us have constituents who have lost considerable sums of money to scams, | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
with many falling victim because they are too trusting, because they | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
underestimate the maliciousness of those who perpetrate these crimes, | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
because there are subjected to a continual bombardment of nuisance | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
calls and through desperation giving. Scammers are highly | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
organised, they are predatory and exploitative. Yesterday the | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
Stockport express, my local paper, reported that so far this year only | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
300 people have fallen victim to fraud. This is as a result of cyber | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
fraud, nuisance calls and bogus traders. In my constituency, Trading | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
Standards have identified a recent scam where people have been told | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
they are paid -- they are paid too much council tax, and are encouraged | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
to part with banking details to gain a refund. Victims cannot even trust | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
the numbers on their phones to be genuine anime or, as highlighted | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
last night on BBC One's programme, rip-off Britain. -- any more. This | :29:37. | :29:44. | |
scam allows fraudsters to phone victims under a number which appears | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
to be genuine, like the bank. And this helps persuade them to part | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
with sometimes large sums of money. So this type of crime is becoming | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
even more sophisticated as criminals are able to ghost phone numbers and | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
hijacked genuine phone numbers which appear legitimate. It is important | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
we continue to take steps to address these new types of fraud as and when | :30:09. | :30:16. | |
they appear. People who are ill, isolated and lonely at particularly | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
affected by these types of crime. The Internet or phone line are often | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
their only link to the world. Apart from financial loss, the feeling of | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
safety in their own homes is undermined. They often become more | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
isolated and distrusting. Mr Deputy Speaker, I welcome the initiative is | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
to tackle this crime, such as the setting the giant task -- fraud task | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
force earlier this year. I look forward to hearing their | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
achievements and intelligence gathering. I am pleased there will | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
be a better co-ordinated approach to the sharing of intelligence between | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
banks and law enforcement agencies, that will address areas currently | :31:00. | :31:02. | |
exploited by these fraudsters. I look forward to hearing from the | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
minister what progress has been made in the few minutes -- months it has | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
been established, in due course. It is vitally important we raise | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
awareness about this important issue, so those most at risk can | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
spot the scams and protect themselves. I welcome the work of | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
groups like the chartered trading standards Institute and the | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
ambassadors programme I support. I want to take some time, if I may, to | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
address the language of scams, which was referred to by my honourable | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
friend, the member from Sully Hall, area. The word scamming implies an | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
idea of cult -- culpability or negligence on the part of the victim | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
and may change how people view the nature of the crime. We use | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
descriptions to say people have been scammed, Khan, cheated, but | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
overwhelmingly they should be described as what they are. Good | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
honest people who are victims of the most heartless fraudulent act. As a | :32:01. | :32:10. | |
result the possibility the crime will be reported because of this | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
language decreases. The victim will feel ashamed. I want to mention the | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
importance of a long-term strategy. The elderly is a democratic -- | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
demographic group increasing year-on-year in. The severity and | :32:26. | :32:34. | |
importance for greater Britain section is profound. -- greater | :32:35. | :32:44. | |
protection. We must ensure the most vulnerable in society receive the | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
appropriate support and assistance to protect them from falling victim | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
to these devastating crimes. Mr Deputy Speaker, individuals have | :32:54. | :33:00. | |
always sought to deceive and take advantage of the most vulnerable in | :33:01. | :33:07. | |
society. As our world is increasingly moved online, | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
transforming how we communicate, the way we do business and the way we | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
live so much of our lives, sadly many of those fraudsters have used | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
the same technologies to increase and, with ever more elaborate ways | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
of defrauding vulnerable people. Indeed, action fraud estimates that | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
around 70% of fraud is either conducted online or is cyber | :33:31. | :33:41. | |
enabled. I think for most of us, casework relating to scams probably | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
makes up a relatively small amount of our postbag and e-mail inboxes. | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
That doesn't mean this isn't a sizeable problem. It's clear that | :33:50. | :33:56. | |
many of the people most at risk of fraud and scams are also among the | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
least likely to come forward to their MPs are even to the police and | :34:03. | :34:09. | |
other agencies. Sadly, I don't need to speculate on this matter. Shortly | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
before I was elected this year, a member of my family received a | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
letter apparently from the Serious Fraud Office. Saying they needed | :34:20. | :34:27. | |
help, ironically, to cash some serious fraudsters. -- catch. There | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
was a telephone number supplied. Give the details. Money had to be | :34:34. | :34:40. | |
transferred into an account which was used as some kind of trick for | :34:41. | :34:47. | |
the fraudster. My relative wanted to help the authorities and transferred | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
the money. Then of course there was another call saying, thank you very | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
much for that. We just need that bit more money. This went on until, | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
fortunately, the one time she went into a post office branch, the lady | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
behind the counter knew my relative, knew that this was not normal | :35:06. | :35:13. | |
conduct and contacted another relative with concerns. That was | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
finally stopped but after several thousand pounds had been lost. They | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
cannot be recovered. But more importantly, it has left my | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
relative, who has always been proud, intelligent and independent, seeing | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
themselves as clumsy and embarrassed. They feel stupid to | :35:37. | :35:43. | |
have been taken in in such a way. We as a society must play a part in | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
protecting the most vulnerable. This includes against fraudsters online | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
or otherwise. From local authorities, police, members of our | :35:53. | :36:00. | |
communities. Technologically savvy members of our communities. I was | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
heartened to hear that my right honourable friend, who is now the | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
Prime Minister, authorise the expansion of police volunteer roles | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
to help with this. So that individuals with digital skills can | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
support police digital investigations by providing the | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
technical expertise to Sciver and digital units. I know this has been | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
trialled and piloted in Hampshire and Gloucestershire. I hope to see | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
this expanded much more widely around the country. There is also, | :36:30. | :36:37. | |
surely, much more that could be done in partnership with financial | :36:38. | :36:44. | |
services to trace these criminals. We are all familiar with the | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
necessary anti-money-laundering regulation that means anybody | :36:51. | :36:52. | |
wanting to set up a current account or anybody wanting to change | :36:53. | :36:59. | |
signatories on a bank account, it can feel like an interminable | :37:00. | :37:08. | |
process. And yet it is apparently possible to trace the bank accounts | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
into which these transfers have been made, and even less likely that | :37:15. | :37:22. | |
these monies will ever be recovered. This is something that is surely not | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
beyond the wit of man and certainly of the people running these | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
financial institutions, to do much more to ensure these are traced. It | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
is simply not acceptable that people are vulnerable and victims are left | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
scared in their own homes. Online threats have changed. The way | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
respond to them must change so that we can protect vulnerable people in | :37:47. | :37:54. | |
our communities. I would like to congratulate the honourable members | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
for Sully Hall and North Ayrshire for securing this most important | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
debate. -- Solihull. I would like to pay tribute to all speakers whose | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
contributions have helped us to discuss this very important issue. | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
Scamming is an increasing problem within our communities. Mostly | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
targeting the elderly and the vulnerable. The average age is, I | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
believe, 74. Even that the Office for National Statistics say the | :38:19. | :38:26. | |
number of elderly people will increase significantly to over 15 | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
million by 2000 and 30, the potential for more scamming victims | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
is likely to increase as well. -- 2030. It is not just the financial | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
loss that causes pain. There can be severe psychological and emotional | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
wounds that can take a considerable time to heal. Victims will | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
inevitably suffer financial loss, but very often depression and | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
possibly relationship breakdowns. What is terrifying is that | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
potentially a third of all victims of scams will fall prey to another | :38:57. | :39:04. | |
scam within 12 months. Mass mail scams coursed the UK consumer | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
between one billion pounds and ?5 billion every year, with an average | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
loss per person, as we have heard earlier, ?1000. Although it has been | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
known for some victims to lose up to ?1 million. Earlier this week a | :39:18. | :39:26. | |
gentleman lost his home to scammers. There are more than 190 trading | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
standards services across the UK, each working to tackle scams in | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
their area. However, the number of officers working on the front line | :39:37. | :39:43. | |
has fallen by 53% since 2009. Due to cutbacks and budget pressures. And | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
some service areas are running with less than one professionally trained | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
member of staff. The current budget for Trading Standards services | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
across the UK equates to just ?1 99 per person per year in the UK. These | :39:57. | :40:04. | |
local teams are in place to step in whenever a victim of a financial | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
scam is identified, and work with the police to help bring justice. | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
However, the fact that only 5% of victims report crimes, often due to | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
embarrassment, means that criminals continue to scam vulnerable people | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
of their savings very often with little consequence. The national | :40:23. | :40:30. | |
Trading Standards scams team was founded in 2012 and identifies | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
vulnerable individuals to the local authority teams by using captured | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
criminal databases. This team shares a ?13 million target, along with | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
other financial crime teams, which is shockingly low when you consider | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
that financial scammers cost UK consumers between ?5 billion and ?10 | :40:49. | :40:56. | |
billion every year. Trading Standards can tackle this issue more | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
effectively with the partnership of other government agencies, such as | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
the police and social care, by sharing intelligence and | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
safeguarding victims. Both bodies are experiencing their own limited | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
resources. Limiting the opportunities for partnerships with | :41:15. | :41:16. | |
Trading Standards. Safeguards against scams harm and abuse need to | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
be an integral part of scare and sport. This is a perfect example of | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
the government cutting funding to vital services which will have a | :41:29. | :41:30. | |
detrimental effect on the public. A vital tool is consumer awareness. | :41:31. | :41:40. | |
Many websites actually sell marketing leads to any purchaser | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
without restrictions. There are many websites that will allow you to | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
purchase a list of personal details for market research. However, you | :41:52. | :41:53. | |
don't actually deep to be in business to get them. One of these | :41:54. | :42:00. | |
sites identified was Targets Located, who have a top ten of the | :42:01. | :42:08. | |
you can scam. Disabled car buyers is number one, but they claim to have | :42:09. | :42:18. | |
390,000 people receiving benefits who are ripe for scamming. Sites | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
such as this are dedicated to making sure that, for a small fee, you can | :42:26. | :42:33. | |
obtain details of the most viable people in society. Mr cheese on the | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
sale of data will reduce the number of people falling victim to scams. | :42:40. | :42:48. | |
In order to tackle the issue of scams, then is to be a reverse in | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
the cuts to police funding. Should this continue, we will see more | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
scams being conducted in our communities. Cooperation between | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
Trading Standards and the police is vital, but it can only happen if | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
they are given the resources they need. We have a moral responsibility | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
to protect the elderly and vulnerable in our society. We have | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
two ensure that the resources to do this are made available to the | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
professionals who have the skills to best offer this protection. | :43:21. | :43:30. | |
I thank all honourable and Right Honourable members for the | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
conclusion to this debate. They have a variety of stories and concerns, | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
highlighting that this touches so many of our constituents and in some | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
businesses out immediate families. I walk the Minister to her place and | :43:43. | :43:50. | |
commitment to focus on this most cruel of crimes. This is not just | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
about government, but also about private firms, third sector and | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
wider society in general. Mr Deputy Speaker, fraud will always be there. | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
But we can make it harder for them if we act together. Marvellous. The | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
question is as the order paper. As many of that opinion say I've. The | :44:10. | :44:16. | |
ayes have it. We now come to the backbench motion | :44:17. | :44:24. | |
on the fourth Industrial Revolution. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, I wish | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
to move as on the order paper, which is in my name and the honourable | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
member of Portslade. I thank the backbench Business Committee for | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
giving me the opportunity to debate this motion in the House today for | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
the first time in this chamber. 250 years ago, the world's first | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
Industrial Revolution began here in Britain. New engines, powered by | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
coal and steam made my fractured goods and allowed them to be | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
transported across the country on the new railways, roads, bridges and | :44:55. | :45:04. | |
file tax -- viaducts. After two further industrial ages, versa | :45:05. | :45:12. | |
driven by electors the antenna Electronics, we have reached the | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
fourth industrial age. We have seen a fusion of technologies that blur | :45:16. | :45:25. | |
the boundaries between physical, electronic and biological spheres. | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
Breakthroughs in new products in fields such as artificial | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
intelligence, driverless cars, drones, 3-D printing and technology | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
to name a few have captured the imagination of the public and | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
challenged policymakers. The offer economic growth and advantages to | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
countries that seizes opportunities as well as lower prices, and grated | :45:52. | :45:59. | |
choice for consumers. They will also disrupt every industry in every | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
country. The pose profound challenges, especially to countries | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
and community 's that are unprepared or unresponsive. At the global | :46:08. | :46:14. | |
level, the world -- the world economic Forum has become | :46:15. | :46:22. | |
interested. At this House, we have a role in leading the debate, | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
understanding the challenges and making it a success. Today's debate | :46:30. | :46:38. | |
is all the more timely and relevant. My view on this issue is clear, we | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
are in a global race for success. We must actively seize the | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
opportunities presented by this to drive economic growth, enhancing the | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
technology and social changes it brings for the nation's benefit. We | :46:52. | :46:59. | |
must become a new leader in the global economy. To do this, we must | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
take a proactive, free-market approach. We must prepare for | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
destructive technologies, not just react to them. We must make | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
mastering the fourth Industrial Revolution part of the strategy. As | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
we launch the first industrial pollution 250 years ago, we must | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
lead the new one in this century. To understand the scale of the | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
innovations taking place on a practical scale, must consider the | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
new products and services that are already transforming the way we live | :47:34. | :47:43. | |
and work. The 4IR's advances are interconnectivity and machine | :47:44. | :47:45. | |
learning and artificial intelligence. They give rise to | :47:46. | :47:52. | |
possibly disruptive technologies such as 3D printing, driverless cars | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
and others. The lead towards a fusion that will streamline | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
production and deliver new products that does truly revolutionary. I | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
will give way. I am grateful. Well done to my honourable friend and | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
county colleague for securing this debate. I recognise the four | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
technologies that underpinned the revolution. Will he agree that there | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
are others which were revolution rise our lives, not least synthetic | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
biology in which we are a world leader. Would he support me in on | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
courage in the Government and the Minister to revive the bigger that | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
is needed for the eight great technologies policy which the | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
Government adopted not four years ago. I thank him for his | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
intervention. He has a passionate record in this field, so I support | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
him in this field I look forward to working with him on that. What he | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
says Professor transition from the digitisation of information to the | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
real fusion of technologies, whether they be by logical, physical or | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
digital. It is already conceivable in future that entire factories | :49:01. | :49:07. | |
could become automated, requiring only energy and materials to be | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
running 24 hours a day. Simile, the 4IR is blurring the lines between | :49:14. | :49:16. | |
Manny factoring and service as networked product make life easier | :49:17. | :49:23. | |
for consumers. Smart boilers bring order spare parts, and the already | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
making their way into the market. This fast moving market also present | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
opportunities for Britain's SMEs, which are the most nimble. An | :49:36. | :49:42. | |
excellent examples comes from my constituency, where a local start-up | :49:43. | :49:50. | |
is getting a head start in the 4IR market by trading in 3-D printers | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
and how to use them. They have seized the opportunity is to create | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
new jobs in a new industry and generating new wealth. I will give | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
way. Again, I give praise for securing this exhume the important | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
debate and I suspect this is a subject we'll come back too many | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
times in the coming decades if not centuries. Would he agree that one | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
of the important changes we need to think about here in this House is | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
the change to personal law. The first two file secures patterns. If | :50:23. | :50:33. | |
you wait until it is the first to file, you advantage large companies | :50:34. | :50:49. | |
who can file may patterns. Intellectual property is key to | :50:50. | :50:59. | |
making us a forerunner in the industries. The business of my | :51:00. | :51:10. | |
constituents have clients such as Rolls Royce and Pinewood Studios. | :51:11. | :51:12. | |
Larger businesses which might or will friend also mentioned can bring | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
scale and expertise to the process as well. Lockheed Martin, for | :51:17. | :51:25. | |
example, has data expertise helps Royal Mail track parcels more | :51:26. | :51:33. | |
efficiently. These new disruptive 4IR industries allow us to generate | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
new economic growth. What is clear is that the country is best -- the | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
country's best able to take advantage of 4IR are those who move | :51:47. | :51:54. | |
quickly. I hope this government will continue to focus on pro-enterprise | :51:55. | :52:06. | |
policies that make the theUK a forerunner in this revolution. The | :52:07. | :52:13. | |
economic benefits must be shared throughout the country, not just | :52:14. | :52:15. | |
concentrated in London and the south-east. Regional investment | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
funds for 4IR technologies must assimilate growth outside the M25. | :52:23. | :52:33. | |
-- must produce growth. Other advanced economies such as | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
Israel already play a key role in helping new sectors develop and our | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
covenant should do the same. Britain must continue to invest in its | :52:42. | :52:43. | |
digital infrastructure which is as essential as today as railways were | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
in the age of steam. It should include a new age of fibre-optic | :52:50. | :52:57. | |
Internet roll-out. I draw his attention to a report which is | :52:58. | :53:07. | |
forthcoming that will lay out more. Whilst the Dwight Gayle will bring | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
benefits, it also caused challenges as well. By shaping how it evolves, | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
we can tackle this head on. Automation increasingly substituents | :53:19. | :53:20. | |
for human labour, and so the disbursement of workers could result | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
in short-term and implement in low-wage sectors of the economy. The | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
Government has a way to dampening the down side effects of the 4IR, | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
but it is the -- in particular by urging the gap -- by bridging the | :53:36. | :53:44. | |
gap. The technology that I have talked about and destruction it may | :53:45. | :53:46. | |
bring is not some external force over which we have no control | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
whatsoever. All of us have a responsibility to shape how it | :53:54. | :54:05. | |
gross. -- how it grows. As the fourth Industrial Revolution | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
gathers pace, we must embrace it, harnesses benefits and she bids | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
revolution. -- and embrace its evolution. Gutman has a key for the | :54:18. | :54:31. | |
play in this. We must address the challenges as well. It must not | :54:32. | :54:37. | |
consist of changes that happened to us but changes that work for us all. | :54:38. | :54:46. | |
Throughout our history, Britain has adopted an approach to it that | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
encourages development and innovation. We must adopt the same | :54:52. | :54:59. | |
forward-thinking, pro-innovation approach when it comes to the 4IR. | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
In Britain, we reach for the future rather than just yearning for the | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
past. As before, the new wave technology will change can bring | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
substantial benefits, from greater productivity and lower batching | :55:13. | :55:19. | |
costs to new choice for consumers. I hope we will take that approach by | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
placing 4IR at the heart of its strategy. In doing so, we can -- in | :55:25. | :55:32. | |
a new Renaissance, launch a new industrial era and give Great | :55:33. | :55:44. | |
Britain its place in the upcoming revolution. The question is as on | :55:45. | :55:51. | |
the order paper. It feels like getting to the airport and being | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
upgraded. I'm very grateful to the honourable member for including me | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
in this discussion that led to this debate and allow me to second it. It | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
is a privilege. He spoke brilliantly then. Listening to him speak, it | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
made me realise how exciting and exhilarating the idea of the 4IR | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
actually is. One aspect of this revolution should have every | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
decision maker and our comic on high alert, and that is the rapidity with | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
which is occurring. The 4IR will sweep through our economy in a | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
number of years, not the centuries it took the previous Industrial | :56:28. | :56:28. | |
Revolution is to unfold. Sadly we have been fed on a diet of | :56:29. | :56:39. | |
drones to deliver our groceries, which has a certain tomorrow's world | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
feeling about it. But the truth is this revolution is already under | :56:45. | :56:46. | |
way. Consumers are already controlling their home heating and | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
security by using mobile phones. Hand-held devices are controlling | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
worldwide events by the cloud. It is happening today but we're barely | :56:57. | :57:00. | |
crossed the start line in this race. Microsoft is investing ?5 billion | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
worldwide to build a data centre infrastructure which gives us the | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
idea of the scale of transformation yet to come. Advancements in | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
nanotechnology, 3D printing and renewable energy are opening up a | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
multiplicity of opportunities for medical, academic and industrial | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
research. Our universities are also rising up to the challenge. Next | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
year the University of Sussex will open a new ?10 million Centre for | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
computing, robotic electronics and Megatron X. -- meta- Travelex. I | :57:33. | :57:39. | |
will welcome an intervention to tell me what that actually means. Maybe | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
we can discover together! While many of these new trends will be powerful | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
enough to break through regardless of market conditions, there are | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
several barriers that will need dealing with. The private sector | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
will need to tackle the threat of data security. Cyber threats pose a | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
real world problems to those affected. And a psychological | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
barrier to those who haven't. The private sector must invest in | :58:04. | :58:06. | |
management skills to ensure businesses can be effectively lead | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
through this change. They must also put the territorial needs of their | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
business aside to ensure that the technology works across platforms | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
and geographical areas. There are also challenges the government must | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
be active in supporting our economy to overcome. The first is the | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
infrastructure for the future economy, namely the Internet. | :58:30. | :58:33. | |
Internet speeds are growing by the consumers and commerce going forward | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
will equally need reliability as well as speed. But the biggest | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
challenge we must overcome, in my opinion, is that of making sure that | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
the next generation are equipped with the skills needed to | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
collectively contribute to our economy of the future and personally | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
thrive on it. At present there is a real danger that the rate of change | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
in our economy is not matched by the ability to produce and retain the | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
skills needed. I am a supporter of the apprenticeship levy but I do | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
believe it is being rolled out too fast to ensure that the benefits | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
reach all parts of our economy. Nowhere is this more acute than in | :59:13. | :59:18. | |
the technology centre. Here, post-16 training is too late. It needs to | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
happen pre-16 and preferably from primary school boards. In order to | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
develop the programming and high levels of creativity and creative | :59:27. | :59:29. | |
thinking that is needed by cutting technology firms. At present, | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
forcing large technology companies to pay for post-16 development could | :59:35. | :59:40. | |
have the diverse effect of diverting funding away from pre-16 funding in | :59:41. | :59:46. | |
schools and end up recruiting from abroad. The key goal is to equip our | :59:47. | :59:51. | |
students and young people with the social, creative and academic skills | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
they will need in a fast evolving economy. To date, this has not been | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
achieved and I agree with the former Tory minister, Lord Baker, when he | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
says that the back to basics approach for curriculum is | :00:05. | :00:07. | |
preventing the social and creative development we need. And a report | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
from a foundation each years -- chairs. He says the government White | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
Paper has a firm commitment for students to focus on seven academic | :00:18. | :00:22. | |
subjects at GCSE. In this language, literature, maths, two sciences, a | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
mother and ancient language, geography and history, plus possibly | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
a third science. This is the curriculum laid down by the | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
education act of 1904, although that add three extra subjects, drawing, | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
cooking for girls and carpentry for boys. I have no doubt that had the | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
member for Surrey Heath ended up as Education Secretary for just one | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
more week, we would have had those three subjects on the curriculum as | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
well! We should not go back to the 19th-century diet of academic | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
subjects for all, Lord Baker says. All young people should make and do | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
things as part of a broad and balanced curriculum. Mr Deputy | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
Speaker, emotional intelligence will be as important to the future | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
economy of our country as academic intelligence has been in the past. | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
According to the manufacturers organisation, EES, staff skills are | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
the number one need for the manufacturers as well. It is | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
important to remember the fourth industrial revolution is not only | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
about the digital. It is about the Manufacturing. Britain must have | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
confidence as we move into this next stage of economic life, and except | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
that the same potential, we have the same potential to make things as we | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
did in the first industrial revolution. It was 30 years ago | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
today that Margaret Thatcher opened the Nissan factory in Sunderland. I | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
allow the benches opposite to celebrate. Back then people thought | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
our automotive industry was on its last legs will stop now we know it | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
is one of the most advanced and successful in the world. 30 years | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
ago car doors closed with a loud clunk, today it is with a soft | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
click. That is because of the huge effort and expense that goes into | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
material design and innovation in our country, and explains why this | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
part of our economy can and must work in tandem and not apart from | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
the revolution that is unfolding. The manufacturing sector will | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
contribute to and benefit from the fourth industrial revolution. It has | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
a lot to offer and it has a lot to gain. The progress made by Jaguar | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
Land Rover and Nissan since the 1980s shows what can be achieved if | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
Britain's foundation industries, including the use of metals and | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
materials, are used properly. This has the potential to benefit our new | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
economy massively. From steel and ceramics, and coatings and graphing, | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
this ?200 billion sector has the potential and the innovation -- to | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
provide innovation and materials that are strong and light enough to | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
make the robotic dreams of tomorrow a reality. I can sense my honourable | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
friend from Stoke-on-Trent North twitching at the mention of | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
ceramics. I will be listening out for her intervention shortly. But | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
this sector is omitted from the government centres. I hope that the | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
Minister will listen to the voices of this sector and play an active | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
part in bridging any gaps there may be between this sector and the | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
technological sector of the fourth revolution. And the benefits in this | :03:35. | :03:42. | |
sector, the benefits to this sector from the unfolding revolution, are | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
also clear. Supply chains dots and lines will move towards a system of | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
end to end decision-making by machines. In short, there will be | :03:50. | :03:59. | |
less error. There will be more efficiency and higher productivity. | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
And finally, I would like to move to the other end of our economy. This | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
revolution will impact the self-employed as well as the | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
technological giants and the manufacturers. Between 2000 and 2015 | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
British people working alone rose by 73%, the largest growth has been the | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
service sector, primarily supplying education, health and business | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
services. The fourth industrial revolution will transform these | :04:26. | :04:33. | |
connection, virtualisation and their cloud experiences. Huge power that | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
has only been available to large companies in public sector | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
departments will now be readily available to individuals. One person | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
with the right skills and the right imagination will have the power and | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
the capacity to make transformational impact on the | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
economy of the future. The challenge we face, Mr Speaker, is to make sure | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
that this power is available to everybody, from whatever background. | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
I do not believe that entrepreneurial spirit is the gift | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
of middle classes. I believe it is a gift to humanity. Unless we equip | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
every young person with the right skills, many will find the door to | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
modern life and all its wonders slammed in their face. The time to | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
ensure this does not happen is now. Thank you. Thank you Mr Deputy | :05:17. | :05:24. | |
Speaker. They are also starred by congratulating my honourable friend | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
from haven't for securing this very important debate. But also say how | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
delighted I am to follow the honourable member for holes in this | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
debate. And thank him as a colleague on the select committee for yet | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
another excellent contribution. Industry 4.0, we'll call it | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
different things, is an extremely dynamic prospect and something that | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
the UK must fully embrace in the years to come. I don't know if we | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
can talk about centuries to come as my colleague mentioned earlier. I | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
know what he was trying to say. As the co-chairman of the all-party | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
Manufacturing group, I appreciate the importance of raising the | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
awareness of the whole of this topic. I think this gives us a great | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
opportunity to do so. I was very pleased in my intervention in the | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
business questions this morning to have encouragement from the leader | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
of the House to raise strategy, industrial strategy, with the | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
backbench business committee. I would hope that the member for | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
haven't would join me in making that application. The use of technology | :06:32. | :06:39. | |
to aid production is not new. But the advancement of digital machinery | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
in the last decade has brought to light the concept of this industrial | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
Revolution. The first saw the Victorians rapidly improving their | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
wealth and their economic outlook. We must not underestimate the | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
to change and have a similar impact to change and have a similar impact | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
on the way that we do things now. A particular point to stress is that | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
other nations are advancing on this. This is why we must keep up. | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
Countries such as Japan and Germany are already understanding the | :07:16. | :07:17. | |
benefits of these technologies. We cannot allow them to have this | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
window to themselves. Through life engineering services is one way in | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
which we can help innovation which we can help innovation | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
flourish in the UK. The aims of tests are to improve availability, | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
predictability, reliability of complex engineering products, to | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
deliver the lowest possible whole life costs. This is an area we can | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
take the lead in. I recently spoke at the launch of the new test | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
national strategy. And I believe that such a focus on improvement is | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
an important way forward. But more broadly, we need to act now to | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
compete internationally. The adoption of cyber physical systems | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
that are able to collect data, provide insights and be used on a | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
large scale in heavy industries, is vital for UK Manufacturing moving | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
forward. Machines using self optimisation and self | :08:18. | :08:19. | |
configurations, allow complex tasks to be completed in a way that | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
dramatically increases cost efficiencies and delivers better | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
quality. The potential obviously is immense. Businesses will be able to | :08:28. | :08:35. | |
streamline production. Reduce waste. Conduct rapid prototyping. Exploit | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
engage with customers in real-time. engage with customers in real-time. | :08:40. | :08:47. | |
European Parliament briefing paper estimates improvements in efficiency | :08:48. | :08:49. | |
is between 6% and 8% can be is between 6% and 8% can be | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
achieved. In Germany alone, it will add one could -- 1% of GDP to the | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
economy. One of the recurring themes from meetings of the all-party | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
Manufacturing group is the need to plug the skills gap. As mentioned in | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
the group's submission to the enquiry into the productivity plan, | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
the current level of available skills in the UK is inadequate for | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
the future success of Manufacturing. Satisfying this need for | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
higher-level skills is vital for productivity and can be done in a | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
number of ways. Firms need to invest in increasing the capacity and a | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
flow of talented individuals into the work force must be continuous, | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
with apprenticeships a notable factor in making this difference. | :09:39. | :09:47. | |
Industry 4.0 and its associated benefits a way of speeding up this | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
process. Where we can improve the outlook of a skills shortage and | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
hope the government can enhance its support in this regard. Backing of | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
UK catapult centres is proving to be extremely successful. The Digital | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
economy Bill, which seeks to improve our digital infrastructure, it is an | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
encouraging indication of the government's commitment. We should | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
continue to look at all possibilities to secure the UK's | :10:16. | :10:17. | |
role as a leading research and nation. Investment in R will | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
encourage new production in the UK as well as further... R tax | :10:24. | :10:32. | |
credits have been a major boost for small and medium-sized enterprises. | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
Another recurring theme in discussing the future of | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
Manufacturing is the re-shoring of production, and the significant | :10:41. | :10:42. | |
impact this has on the sector and the national economy as a whole. To | :10:43. | :10:49. | |
enhance our efforts, an increase in intelligent automation can be a | :10:50. | :10:51. | |
significant driver of economic growth. With a significant change, | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
new business models should be analysed and the adoption of the | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
concept of industry 4.0 fully considered. The significant | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
investment needed to prevent small and medium sized businesses that may | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
be hindered in the medium term, considering the high level of | :11:16. | :11:17. | |
funding needed to pursue such systems. This use of data | :11:18. | :11:26. | |
protection, the large volume of data used, is gone be sensitive. | :11:27. | :11:35. | |
It is imperative that legislation around data protection is tight | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
before businesses can be confident in changing their business models. | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
Just to name one more challenge that I see in the digitisation of the | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
market, there is a concern that our talent pool will lack the service | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
skills to operate machinery, encompassed by economy 4.0. We need | :11:58. | :12:05. | |
more experts in ICT, which is enhanced by the need of cyber | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
security and the transfer of big data. We need to ensure that the | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
whole system, including education and friendships, work is in harmony | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
to provide the necessary skills. The industrial strategy is relevant in | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
this respect. It is therefore clear that we have an incredible | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
opportunity to rapidly advancement factoring in the UK. This debate is | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
an excellent way of starting the discussion around how we go about | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
embracing these new technologies and how we overcome the challenges in | :12:40. | :12:49. | |
doing so. It is impossible to not remember the | :12:50. | :12:58. | |
lessons from history when we talk about best embracing new technology | :12:59. | :13:07. | |
into everyday life. Without James Watt, we would not be talking about | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
the first industrial revolution, let alone a fourth. | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
For hundreds of years, we let the way in shipbuilding innovation such | :13:21. | :13:29. | |
as the Comet, which offered the most successful steamboat service in | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
Europe. It provided hundreds of jobs. Thread the 19th and 20th | :13:36. | :13:43. | |
century, shipyards remain world leading innovators, reducing the | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
most advanced warships of the day and the most advanced merchant ships | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
in the world. It was not a perfect industry, but people could take | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
pride in their work and without hesitation we could declare that it | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
was an integral part of Scotland's story as a nation. The UK government | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
withdrew funding for shipbuilding in the 1980s. By 1986, male | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
unemployment in Glasgow had risen to 26%. The UK government told us that | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
the private sector would create jobs or publicly supported industries -- | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
where publicly supported industries had failed. A McDonald's restaurant | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
is now situated where the wall of the shipyard once stood. In 1988, | :14:32. | :14:40. | |
Margaret Thatcher visited an IBM plant to show how we would | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
transition into new technologies. IBM will permanently end its | :14:47. | :14:55. | |
involvement later this month. The first three Industrial Revolution | :14:56. | :14:57. | |
saw brought success to Inverclyde but adult at the end it with periods | :14:58. | :15:05. | |
of rapid decline. They created well for factory owners and international | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
Company 's, but workers have been left to pick up the pieces when the | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
industries ended. Inverclyde now suffers from depopulation. Public | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
sectors are struggling to survive in the Shadow of those is Oracle | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
failures. The point of this history lesson is this. Inverclyde shows us | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
that technological innovation will never reach its full potential if it | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
lacks a social conscience. The motion before us today states the UK | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
is in a strong position to take advantage of the Fourth Industrial | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
Revolution. In my constituency, I would argue that we have not yet | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
resolved the issues around the decline of the previous | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
technological ages. Undoubtedly, it can be part of the solution. What is | :15:52. | :15:59. | |
to jobs is like mine -- constituencies like mine... The UK | :16:00. | :16:11. | |
governorate has an obligation to help constituencies like Inverclyde | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
to make up for its failures of the past. I would like to see them take | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
extraordinary measures to help and take advantage of the fourth | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
revolution. We know that it will be a major component of the future and | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
technological innovation. Inverclyde will be well-placed take advantage | :16:32. | :16:32. | |
of these developments. It is one of of these developments. It is one of | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
the few areas with a geography that can utilise almost all forms of | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
renewable technology. We mostly have tidal power and enough hills to | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
facilitate wind power. They can power hydro schemes as they did in | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
the past. Solar will never fulfil all about requirements, but it could | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
be a valuable contributor. We already produce biomass fuels under | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
which its produce all over Scotland that were produced in Inverclyde. | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
These sites could be centres of manufacturing once again. Our port | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
facilities Menard beat evil -- may be able to take them to their | :17:18. | :17:32. | |
destinations. While I welcome the UK's approach, but they will not | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
fully utilised areas like Inverclyde. We now see a lack of | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
vision. Renewables could transport Inverclyde. Policies are stifling | :17:43. | :17:54. | |
that potential. There has been a withdrawal of the support that was | :17:55. | :18:03. | |
available. They are actively damaging the area that could make | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
the area vibrant once again. The Fourth Industrial Revolution offers | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
so much, smart money factoring, increasingly intricate technologies | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
and household appliances that could connect to the Internet. What my | :18:21. | :18:23. | |
constituents asking for is employment. Not low-level, poorly | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
paid jobs, but skilled, high-value employment that will boost other | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
businesses and educational is due ships in the area. The Industrial | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
Revolution failed to pull the landed pull out of poverty. Wealth has been | :18:39. | :18:46. | |
speculated by a smaller and smaller section of society. I want to see | :18:47. | :18:48. | |
the Government must treat two things. First, how they plan on to | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
driving forward the Fourth Industrial Revolution and secondly | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
how this technology will be used to benefit the social and economic | :19:00. | :19:06. | |
situation of everyone in society. It could lead to a period of unrivalled | :19:07. | :19:13. | |
prosperity for this country. Without stewardship, these new technologies | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
will only reinforce social, gender and regional inequalities. I'm | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
grateful for him giving way. I wasn't in the chamber yesterday | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
afternoon when I spoke on climate change. I would inform him that | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
through the employment of some of these new technologies, the guys | :19:32. | :19:43. | |
Anson told -- a hospital has installed a plant that will save | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
costs in which they have done because the technology is there and | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
they have sought to adopted, which is doing an immediate good. Biomass | :19:53. | :20:04. | |
heating is a fantastic technology. It is part of a mix that is needed | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
if we will get this right. Finally, want to see a fairer and more | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
prosperous society. One that has opportunities for our young people. | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
Without that sense of progress and social justice, technological | :20:20. | :20:21. | |
advancements will only work against those who need the most assistance. | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
It is time the UK government shows the industrial strategy will benefit | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
working people. If they are unwilling to do so, then transfer | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
the power to Scotland and let us get on with the job. Thank you. This is | :20:35. | :20:46. | |
a record for me speaking twice in 25 hours. I'm grateful for the | :20:47. | :20:48. | |
opportunity. I congratulate my honourable friend, who has secured a | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
worthwhile debate and opened it brilliantly. I apologise for being | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
late to the debate. I was working on the energy and climate change select | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
committee's paper on the renewable heat and transportation targets | :21:07. | :21:08. | |
which is being released this evening. I commend it to the House, | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
it is one of the most insightful committee reports that you will read | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
all year. As they all are! Yesterday, the Minister use some | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
fantastic theatrical references which I hope will become a tradition | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
of his summing up speeches. I know he has and its orthopaedic knowledge | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
of the better, so we look forward to that. -- and encyclopaedic | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
knowledge. I hope to talk about some of the energy opportunities that | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
come from the collision of emerging technologies and our existing energy | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
infrastructure. There is some dispute over whether we're on the | :21:50. | :21:51. | |
third or fourth Industrial Revolution. This book has become a | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
bit of the Bible for me, as I sought to develop my thinking on how energy | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
policy might evolve. He thinks it is the third Industrial Revolution, but | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
nonetheless it is an excellent read and is very much pulling in the same | :22:08. | :22:15. | |
direction as those who are advocating the Fourth Industrial | :22:16. | :22:16. | |
Revolution. When the front bench will have seen and looked in great | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
details at the international industry commission's Smart Power | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
report, which is a fantastic publication for setting out how we | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
do harness all of these wonderful technologies as we digitise the | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
energy system. The reality is we could save ?8 billion a year for the | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
UK economy if we seek to digitise our energy system and to harness | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
these technologies. Those are immediate savings in terms of how | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
much we save energy bills, but also gains in productivity as well. The | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
head of the National Grid was on the BBC today programme last week, she | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
was saying that we are seeing a smart energy revolution across the | :23:01. | :23:02. | |
country, with adjustments reflecting Ben energy is cheapest. To most | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
people, that means a bit of a nightmare, you have to change your | :23:10. | :23:16. | |
consumption habits in order to meet the market. The reality is, we have | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
many of the technologies in our homes already. Most major white | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
goods malefactors are producing smart appliances already. They are | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
in our shops and would probably have them in our homes. Through the | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
Internet of things, they will start to speak to one another to make sure | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
that they are operating at the time that is most efficient, most | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
cost-effective. They are reporting faults so you don't carry on for | :23:41. | :23:43. | |
years having a fridge that is using more power than it should because it | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
has already flagged its faults to the manufacturer. It is not going to | :23:51. | :23:57. | |
be a case of opting into them because they are building them as | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
standard and will increasingly do so. There is a challenge, I think, | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
for the Government in terms of preparing our homes and businesses | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
and society for the Internet of things from an energy perspective. I | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
have got some thoughts on Apple purchased before moving onto | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
examples of where we are seeing huge economic advantages of those. The | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
smart meter programme is the keystone in achieving this | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
digitisation of our system. The front bench will be pushing that out | :24:28. | :24:37. | |
as soon as possible. When we bring it into the energy space as others | :24:38. | :24:45. | |
smart meat as being in place. Similarly, the way that our great is | :24:46. | :24:54. | |
put together as we want to be able to speak in real-time about what it | :24:55. | :25:03. | |
is it a -- what it is it is producing. At the moment, | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
effectively, you have to pay for the energy twice, when it is generated | :25:09. | :25:10. | |
and there when it is released from storage. That cannot be the case for | :25:11. | :25:17. | |
much longer, surely. At distribution networks, the substations within at | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
unity is, need to be capable of dealing with this more dynamic | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
demand. The reality of clustered and aunt, particularly overnight, when | :25:28. | :25:29. | |
people might be taking advantage of cheap energy in order to charge | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
cards, but the washing machine through or have a tumble dryer | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
running, heat that immersion tanks, all of those things. None of that | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
will happen automatically without the Government paving the way. | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
Thereafter, however, I'm sure that these technologies will find their | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
place in the market by themselves. They will make life better and | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
people will buy them as a result. Government does not need to | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
encourage people every year to change their mobile phone. People | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
just want to have the latest technology at their disposal. I'm | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
sure that will be the case if the framework is created by government | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
within energy policy to make sure that that can happen. On storage, | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
the price of storage is ready coming down from 3000 dollars per | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
kilowatt-hours to about 200 today. It will come down quicker cell. The | :26:23. | :26:29. | |
factory in Colorado which they are accelerating the construction of | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
quite rapidly, given the increase in demand. These are exciting times | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
because storage is the key to flattening the supply curve of | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
energy. Unlocking the real potential of renewables. But the real | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
technological wizardry is demand-side response, which to many | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
in the chamber will be a combination of words they might not have heard | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
before. It needs to become forefront of the way we discuss energy. | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
Flattening the supply curve is only part of the problem. Flattening the | :27:01. | :27:10. | |
demand curve is equally important. I've been hugely impressed as I've | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
become very and used an DSR and gone around various companies that are | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
delivering it. By the scale of the savings it is bringing to | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
businesses. Marriot hotels has signed up to a DSR contract which is | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
saving hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Aggregate industries | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
used to just turn up in the morning and fire up the boilers to get the | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
bitumen tanks up to heat. They would operate over the course of the day | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
and then switch them off. They employed these technologies which | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
said, our tolerance is we need to keep these tanks at a certain | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
temperature and providing it is at that temperature, we will be able to | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
release energy back to the grid, and so they do. They get money for | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
nothing as a result because these technologies are being employed and | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
they are able to sell back energy they don't need that they would have | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
otherwise paid for and wasted, creating a huge saving for | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
themselves. Sainsbury's supermarket, similarly, refrigeration is a | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
massive cost for supermarkets and the food industry. Sainsbury's have | :28:23. | :28:29. | |
employed DSR and from the store in my constituency in Street in | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
Somerset they release electricity back to the grid. The other area | :28:34. | :28:43. | |
that I wanted to touch on beyond DSR and storage is the electrification | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
of the transport system. I've had to check carefully with the energy and | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
climate change committee over whether I find myself in contempt of | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
Parliament. This is a hugely exciting opportunity for us to | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
employ electric cars and electric haulage systems in the UK. The | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
problem is that I'm not sure we yet have the infrastructure in place to | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
support them, nor am I sure that we have the fiscal structure right to | :29:13. | :29:20. | |
support it either. I tried to buy an electric car over the summer and | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
sadly the range of them was probably not quite enough to allow me to do | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
my duties around my rear roll Somerset constituency. But they are | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
getting there. And we just need to incentivise the acceleration of this | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
technology so we get beyond the hundred mile range and get out to | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
two, 300 miles. I think people will go for it quite quickly. The | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
incentive is the government has in place is fantastic. The government's | :29:51. | :30:01. | |
emphasis on putting out a charging infrastructure at motorway service | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
stations is fantastic also, but we really need to grow this | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
infrastructure much more if people are to buy these cars and make the | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
saving they hope they will. The argument is that make a -- us more | :30:12. | :30:20. | |
productive as well. Particularly when we go to autonomous cars and | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
find we can move around much more freely. In the United States | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
Coca-Cola has employed hydrogen electric hybrid vehicles for all of | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
its fleet and it has made a 20% reduction on its fuel cost. That is | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
a huge saving by employing those technologies, the electrification of | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
their transport fleet. Which I think is something we should look across | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
at to realise it's not just something you do if your green. This | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
is something you do as an individual or a business if you want to reduce | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
your operating costs. Technology colliding with energy generation, | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
energy consumption to make us more efficient, more cost-effective and | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
to make all of our operating costs that bit cheaper. Mr Speaker you | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
encouraged us to stick within ten minutes so I will summarise without | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
going into many more of my examples. The bottom line is that we will | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
focus very much an hour infrastructure in terms of | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
broadband, 5G mobile phones. We will worry about the preparedness of our | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
airports, roads and rail. The energy infrastructure is just as important. | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
In my view alongside the broadband and mobile phone networks it is | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
those three sets of infrastructure, telecoms, broadband, energy, that | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
will really drive the fourth, or third, Industrial Revolution | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
forwards and allow us to harness these fantastic technologies. We | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
should be seeking to do so not just because we are seeking to arrest | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
climate change but because it is cost-effective and it makes business | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
sense, will increase productivity and ultimately will be great for our | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
economy. Can I first congratulate the honourable members for securing | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
this crucially important debate. I am proud to represent the greatest | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
city of the first Industrial Revolution. In Stoke-on-Trent we | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
pioneered the modern ceramics industry. As visionaries like Josiah | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
Wedgwood and Thomas Minton transformed the landscape with the | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
pot banks and factories of a world conquering industry. The clay and | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
coal beneath our feet fuelled a vast, dynamic economy and funded the | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
great civic buildings and canal networks that still tanned Reed | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
Kristan Testament. With last week 's news that Churchill China is | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
planning to invest in new jobs in the city is a legacy that is very | :33:01. | :33:09. | |
much alive this day. For my city and my constituents who have worked the | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
clay for generations, the path to prosperity lies in the renewal of | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
British industry and in the creation of a prosperous, balanced economy | :33:18. | :33:25. | |
which utilises our country strengths, our creativity, technical | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
acumen and knowledge gained from hundreds of years of craftsmanship. | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
Advances in modern technology and material engineering present an | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
opportunity to rebuild the local economy and celebrate a city far too | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
often overlooked. As mentioned by my honourable friend the member for | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
Hove, these new horizons are already visible in the ceramics industry. | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
Where advances in material transformation mean ceramic | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
technology could and should be utilised in new and extraordinary | :33:55. | :34:01. | |
ways, from bone transplants, hip replacements to mobile transmitters | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
and energy conductors. Trials have been done on lightweight ceramic | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
body armour to protect the next generation of British Armed Forces. | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
We now need to make these ambitions to reality for my constituents and | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
laid the groundwork for a truly 21st-century ceramics industry. | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
Plans for a new hub for Materials research in the city, the applied | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
Materials research and innovation Centre are already underway, | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
supported by MIT, Imperial College London and Cambridge University. | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
Demonstrating Stoke-on-Trent and the UK are leading the way. This | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
revolution has the potential to unleash extraordinary economic | :34:47. | :34:49. | |
growth and to greatly improve our quality of life, and we must seize | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
this opportunity to create an economy that works for everyone. We | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
must harness these new technologies to bring new life into traditional | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
industries, and need a renaissance in British manufacturing, and let us | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
be clear. It is this and no less than this that is required. The | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
Fourth Industrial Revolution holds the power to drive our country and | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
our communities forward, to a Brave new world of scientific discovery, | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
material comfort and sustained economic growth. I wish to sound a | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
note of caution to those who assume that greater prosperity and | :35:26. | :35:27. | |
opportunity are a foregone conclusion. We should not fear | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
change but we must support our communities to adapt to new | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
industries and new opportunities. Because with great change can come | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
great people and economies can develop and adapt in ways we cannot | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
always predict. There can be unforeseen consequences to an | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
economic boom pursued without care. The true mark of a strong economy is | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
that it allows each of us to live comfortably and well without hunger | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
or want. When we lose the sight of that aim the result is even greater | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
disparities in wealth and opportunity. Progress may be | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
inevitable, but prosperity is not. It is our own actions that will | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
determine whether the promise of this Fourth Industrial Revolution is | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
realised, and whether its opportunities will be accessible to | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
the many or to the few. The Fourth Industrial Revolution needs to be | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
guided in such a way as to provide equality of opportunity and balanced | :36:27. | :36:28. | |
regional investment. And its communities like mine in the | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
post-industrial regions, long neglected by successive governments | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
and lacking the resources to retrain and up skill our workforce, which | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
could be hit hardest if we get this wrong. The challenges that we face | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
is not only to capitalise on these new technologies but to ensure the | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
rewards are distributed equitably, and that everyone has the chance to | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
get ahead. That's why we need a government that provides businesses, | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
workers and entrepreneurs with the support they need. For | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
Stoke-on-Trent that means I'd coherent industrial strategy that | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
plays to our strengths in ceramic manufacturing and engineering and | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
supports us to develop the associated industries. Over the | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
course of my first year in Parliament had been working with | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
local employers, businesses and universities to do just that. | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
Supported by the Staffordshire chamber of commerce we are working | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
to develop a clear industrial strategy with a set of achievable | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
goals to improve our infrastructure, tackle our skill shortages and | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
secure the inward investment we desperately need. There is | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
recognition throughout a city that a piecemeal approach to economic | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
renewal is simply not enough. We need a long-term plan that sets out | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
to tackle the particular obstacles we face. That means overcoming the | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
challenges in skills and education and offering greater opportunities | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
for our young people, not just in traditional trades but in digital | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
technology, coding and advanced materials. I welcome the government | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
's decision to lift the age cap on apprenticeships, to allow more | :38:05. | :38:06. | |
people to learn new skills and traits. We must also work to open | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
people's eyes to the many new industries being thrown open by the | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
digital revolution. We also need a fresh commitment to lifelong | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
learning so that people can learn new skills throughout their lives, | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
and adapt to an ever more fluid labour market. So much potential is | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
wasted because people are not being granted the opportunity to develop | :38:30. | :38:31. | |
themselves through their working lives. Cities like Stoke-on-Trent | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
also need investment in the critical infrastructure needed to grow our | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
local economy, whether it be transport links or superfast | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
broadband. Projects such as the ceramic valley enterprise zone are a | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
welcome boost but I fear they are not sufficient to deliver a strong | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
local economy in isolation. A full infrastructure evaluation in our | :38:57. | :38:59. | |
northern and Midlands cities which show the government is committed to | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
building an economy that works for every region and help to put flesh | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
on the bones of the so-called Northern powerhouse. We need an | :39:07. | :39:14. | |
industrial strategy that supports businesses, which want to expand to | :39:15. | :39:16. | |
invest in new technology especially new ceramic technology, and support | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
RND into new technologies as we saw with the breakthrough in graphene | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
technology at Manchester University. Britain can and must lead the way in | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
this new revolution. We must also in showed that it is spread evenly. The | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
more as society changes the more people are at risk of being left | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
behind. By investing in the skill and infrastructure we can overcome | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
these challenges. That is why I would urge the government today not | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
to sit back and let events take their course, invest in the skills, | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
training and infrastructure we need right now, right across the country, | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
to ensure everyone has the chance to fulfil their potential. We need to | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
ensure the opportunities presented by the Fourth Industrial Revolution | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
are open to all. We need a commitment from the government to | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
invest in skills and education and particularly in adult education so | :40:12. | :40:18. | |
that those whose jobs are at risk and by new employment, better paid | :40:19. | :40:20. | |
employment in new industries. And we need a genuine industrial strategy | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
that supports industry is the length and breadth of our country. Thank | :40:26. | :40:35. | |
you very much indeed Mr Deputy Speaker. It's a pleasure to speak | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
with you in the chair. Let me start by congratulating my honourable | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
friend the member for haven't and the honourable member for Hove and | :40:45. | :40:52. | |
Portslade for securing a debate on this important topic. According to | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
the World Economic Forum, the Fourth Industrial Revolution is | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
characterised by a range of new technologies that are fusing the | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
physical, digital and biological worlds. It has, they say, the | :41:04. | :41:11. | |
potential to transform and integrate products and services, to reshape | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
radically the way in which things are made, the factories through | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
which we make them and the ever more personal and customised uses to | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
which they operate. This can many forms, be they new web applications, | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
micro-robots, peer-to-peer services, advanced manufacturing or | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
personalised medicines and cyber medical technologies. They can be | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
leveraged by big data and better and more widespread digital activity. | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
I want to speak today briefly about what I think this is about regarding | :41:43. | :41:52. | |
these developments. Let me start by saying I'm quite sceptical about the | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
language regarding the Fort industrial revolution. I share some | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
of the scepticism of the members for Wales. Voltaire once sardonically | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
remark that the Roman Empire was neither Roman nor an empire. I find | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
this neither industrial nor a revolution. The original causes of | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
the Industrial Revolution still rather contested. Was it the result | :42:23. | :42:30. | |
of access to coal and high thermic value coal in particular? What it | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
the result of spreading tray, the bourgeois virtues of thrift, hard | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
work, tolerance and openness to other countries, all science and | :42:43. | :42:45. | |
technology? These are still contested matters with historians. | :42:46. | :42:52. | |
Some people say it's based on steam and then 150 years later, | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
electricity. Where does it leave us now? We need to go to Adam Smith, | :43:00. | :43:07. | |
and I was particularly glad that the member for Inverclyde highlighted | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
the importance of Glasgow, since Adam Smith was Glasgow University's | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
greatest professor, at a time when Glasgow University was one of the | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
greatest in the world. Smith was wise on many fronts. He was a | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
unionist. Above all, alongside human, he said union was a measure | :43:29. | :43:35. | |
from which infant good has arrived to Scotland. He pointed to the | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
importance of the division of labour. I want to point out in | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
particular that there was a limit by the size of the market. You don't | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
get porters in villages, and you wouldn't today get Uber in towns. | :43:49. | :43:55. | |
The market isn't it enough. Change, I would suggest of the House, is by | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
the same things that have always powered it. Bigger markets, net | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
access to materials, better materials and the human appetite for | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
risk and are requesting nature human imagination. It was one of my | :44:12. | :44:20. | |
predecessors who pointed out the eight technologies on which the last | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
Government founded its strategy on, from agriculture to satellites. I | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
think we should talk about these rather than airily about | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
revolutions. The point of view has been articulated very well by Robert | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
Gordon who argued that there was a golden age, golden century of | :44:45. | :44:52. | |
innovation between 1870-1970, time and transformation through | :44:53. | :45:00. | |
innovative technologies, and as John Okada said, for someone born when | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
engine in Disraeli was Prime Minister, Benjamin Heath would have | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
seen horse-drawn give way to cars and aircraft. Medical devices, | :45:11. | :45:17. | |
services that were nonexistent, replaced in the queues for | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
infectious diseases, as well as colour television, indoor plumbing | :45:23. | :45:29. | |
and electricity. Paul Voelker has pointed out that the greatest | :45:30. | :45:37. | |
technology has been ATM. If anyone knows anything about finance, they | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
will have a great sympathy with that technology. These technologies have | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
shaped us, and Gordon says that capacity for transformative | :45:47. | :45:53. | |
innovation has slowed. We have upgrades but not life transforming | :45:54. | :45:55. | |
breakthroughs, like the washing machine. Things that are shaped | :45:56. | :46:03. | |
peoples lives. Low growth, low productivity. However I do not share | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
this pessimism. What matters to me is capacity to risk, the ability to | :46:10. | :46:19. | |
work. Imagination. I would like to mention two projects I have been | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
associated with. The new modelling technology and engineering. The | :46:25. | :46:33. | |
first completely new university for decades. In Hereford, with a | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
curriculum along the lines of liberal engineering, tying the | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
liberal engineering to the arts and sciences required to create | :46:43. | :46:51. | |
innovation. Problem -based, not all based on curricula. 46 week | :46:52. | :47:01. | |
curriculum linking to colleges in America and Warwick and Bristol | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
here. It's not just an important local institution, its potentially a | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
disruptively national institution and could do enormous amount to | :47:13. | :47:21. | |
assist the technologies today. It's a not for profit car my father has | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
designed. A flat pack vehicle. Let me tell you, you may be surprised. | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
Even you with your astonishing breadth of understanding and | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
knowledge, this is a vehicle that can be assembled by three people in | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
a day from a flat pack. It weighs... It costs a third of the price of a | :47:44. | :47:55. | |
luxury 4x4 and carries three times the weight. Under ?20,000. To get | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
that simplicity, you had to refit design and engineering. What I think | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
that brings out is that it doesn't require... Great innovation does not | :48:07. | :48:13. | |
require the highest form of technology. Simpler -- | :48:14. | :48:24. | |
simplification can change things. Let's turn now to our own situation. | :48:25. | :48:33. | |
Policies that support enterprises have been rightly highlighted. | :48:34. | :48:41. | |
Manufacturing companies in this country are overwhelmingly employers | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
are 50 people or over and these firms count for half of | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
manufacturing employment. Small and medium sized enterprises will be the | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
blood of change as they are today. blood of change as they are today. | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
Very versatile in their manufacturing -- Manufacturing, able | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
to move on their feet, produce despite products using new materials | :49:09. | :49:15. | |
and revolutionary techniques of 3-D printing, assisted computer design. | :49:16. | :49:23. | |
I hope members are already aware of Innovate Uk. They run competitions, | :49:24. | :49:32. | |
funding competitions to find the best technology. They are the best | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
for getting this market ready. There is also the Heinemann -- high-value | :49:39. | :49:45. | |
manufacturing catapulted for which supports manufacturers, small | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
manufacturers to adopt new technologies. 300 million has been | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
invested in a factory through that means. Over the last years, the high | :49:55. | :50:02. | |
value manufacturing catapulted has worked for 160 private sector | :50:03. | :50:11. | |
clients on 1300 projects and 18 small and medium enterprise | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
engagements. This in particular has the equipment to support the | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
adoption of advanced technologies, using virtual modelling. It can help | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
businesses understand what tech can do for them without having to go | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
down that path to plan and eliminate risks. There are several projects, | :50:28. | :50:45. | |
Smart City Developer, Manchester. There are some very interesting | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
collaborations for this model support between the public and | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
private sectors, and what it is offering. It is a virtuous circle | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
and one that the Government wants to see greatly repeated and replicated. | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
We want to increase access and awareness to these catapulted to | :51:05. | :51:11. | |
that more small businesses can get new market opportunities. I'm | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
grateful for the Minister to giving way. I find it incredible that | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
someone who's never shopped at IKEA could know anything about a flat | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
pack car that you could put together in a day. Does he think there is | :51:30. | :51:38. | |
merit in these catapulted, linking them to industrial materials for | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
products and services that are being developed in the parts of the | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
heartlands talked about by my right honourable friend. I take the point | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
very much. The only way I think we can think about this flat pack car | :51:52. | :51:58. | |
is that it is the product of three years of development from the senior | :51:59. | :52:05. | |
executives at McLaren. On the issue of linking to industry, I think it's | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
absolutely right. One of the things about the catapulted is that they | :52:11. | :52:13. | |
have proved to be a flexible form, and there's no reason why that | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
flexibility can't be used to create even closer linkages. As he knows, | :52:21. | :52:31. | |
there was a value debt between businesses, development, and | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
academia. Let me round up by thanking colleagues and | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
congratulating them for this debate which I think has been extremely | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
wise and intelligent. As a Government, we want to be at the | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
forefront of the changes that are being discussed here, the landscape | :52:50. | :52:56. | |
of our industry and our commerce, the way it is continuing. We want to | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
lead the fourth as we lead the first. Through this new department | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
for business, strategy and energy, with a criteria that will be laid | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
out over the next few months. I'd like to join with colleagues and | :53:16. | :53:23. | |
bank the honourable member and for those who have worked to make this | :53:24. | :53:32. | |
debate today. I worked at the World Economic Forum from 2009 to 2012. | :53:33. | :53:42. | |
One of the things on the agenda was the Davos meeting. This wants to be | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
characterised by new forms of renewable energy, outward expansion | :53:48. | :53:54. | |
of technology gym by the Internet. It's a revolution that will take | :53:55. | :54:01. | |
place as we face severe challenges to our economic future. Trade | :54:02. | :54:08. | |
deficit in our country is difficult, there is greatly reduced job | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
security, overconcentration on London as a source of wealth and | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
growth in the country at the Spencer for the regions. Overreliance on the | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
service industries with a low share of manufacturing in terms of share | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
of GDP. Manufacturing been soaked Croatia YouTube broadly shared | :54:26. | :54:33. | |
wealth -- manufacturing been so important in terms of broadly shared | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
wealth. That lies at the heart of many of the difficulties in terms of | :54:40. | :54:42. | |
the unbalanced nature of the British economy. In the aftermath of the EU | :54:43. | :54:48. | |
referendum, each of these challenges is exacerbate it by the uncertainty | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
that our economy faces regarding Brexit. With -- we don't know what | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
our trading relationship will be with our largest market and we may | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
not know for some time. The fourth Industrial Revolution which could | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
transform the way we live could be dependent on our economically -- | :55:11. | :55:11. | |
economy. As the economy is further limited to | :55:12. | :55:33. | |
services... Will we use this for Industrial Revolution to transform, | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
brighten our economic future for all our people. Can its fusion of | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
digital technology, intelligence and activity shape a new economy with | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
new models of manufacturing, labour relations and skills' development to | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
create jobs that raise living standards and allow us to trade with | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
the new ways. Can it help us to realise our values in society and in | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
our everyday lives? The answers to those questions is what we make it. | :56:05. | :56:12. | |
We must shape and lead the fourth Industrial Revolution so that it | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
delivers the society and the economy that we want for people all across | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
our country. It requires a Government with a vision of what a | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
fourth Industrial Revolution should look like in order to allow us to | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
deliver the outcomes that we need. The Government that has an | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
industrial strategy that helps us to get there, a Government that takes | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
action, control of our future. This will mean a strategy and plan to | :56:39. | :56:45. | |
build a new manufacturing sector that creates world leading products | :56:46. | :56:47. | |
but also delivers a It will require matching or | :56:48. | :57:02. | |
exceeding oh ECD levels of investment in research and | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
development, which is the source of future sustainable growth and | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
industry. As part of this, we must continue her rise in 2020 funding | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
which does so much to catalyse University research and innovation | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
and transform it into market products. The government has | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
promised to match Horizon funding until 2020 but even in a fast as | :57:23. | :57:29. | |
possible Brexit scenario that's only one year of matched funding. We must | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
commit for longer to give universities and innovators the | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
confidence they need, especially in the face of Brexit fuelled | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
uncertainty, to develop the ideas that will inspire and drive our | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
future in the Fourth Industrial Revolution. As well as providing | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
this foundation for the catalysts of the Fourth Industrial Revolution, | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
government must protect its fruits. Protecting British business, | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
manufacturing and supply change. We cannot afford to be hands-off and | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
allow a world-class tech business to be sold to the Japanese. We cannot | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
run a successful growing economy and secured the investment it needs if | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
we allow our crown jewels to be sold off. Just in the last year I've seen | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
the huge difference in impact between a hands-off approach and one | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
that is active. The British steel industry so important in my | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
constituency has been failed time and time again by our government. | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
The government didn't act to stop this state subsidised dumping of | :58:32. | :58:38. | |
Chinese steel when it could have done. The government did not | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
encourage investment or profitability in keeping a | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
regressive business rates regime and uncompetitive energy prices. And yet | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
when the government and the state does step up to provide a future | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
foundation for our success, British talent... He mentions the sale of | :58:57. | :59:05. | |
armed holdings to Softbank. Yesterday we saw the announcement of | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
Micro Focus, a UK business buying a significant business offer, does he | :59:12. | :59:22. | |
think we should be able to buy businesses but not sell them? In my | :59:23. | :59:28. | |
view we need a reform of the companies act which places a clear | :59:29. | :59:33. | |
national interest clause and a method of monitoring that clause so | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
that we move away from the situation such as we saw with Pfizer | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
attempting to take AstraZeneca. I'm thankful that the previous Leader of | :59:45. | :59:50. | |
the Opposition did a great job in terms of preventing that from | :59:51. | :59:57. | |
happening. We need a national strategy to protect our national | :59:58. | :00:04. | |
assets particularly when they drive the entire economy and drive the | :00:05. | :00:09. | |
Fourth Industrial Revolution. We have a remarkable company called | :00:10. | :00:20. | |
Specific which is developing steel cased coatings for buildings which | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
can generate and store its own electricity. And it works. We | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
already have an industrial site in Port Talbot which has been | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
generating its heat through solar power for three years. All of this | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
is done thanks to a partnership between business universities... | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
That's where we are leaving the live coverage of the Commons to go to | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
Philip Hammond's first appearance before a parliamentary committee. | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
You can continue watching business in the Commons on our website and we | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
will return to the chamber after the committee has finished. To inform | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
Parliament | :01:00. | :01:01. |