25/10/2016 House of Commons


25/10/2016

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houses of parliament at 11pl tonight. First, it's questions to

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Philip Hammond and his team of Treasury ministers.

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Order, order. Questions to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Number

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one, Mr Speaker. Creating a economy which works were all is a kdy

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priority of this Government. All regions are benefiting from the 12

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by the impact local growth funds, and our industrial strategy will

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this growth across the UK. Devolution deals will get areas the

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tools they need to make the right economic decisions. We're stpporting

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the Northern Powerhouse and Midlands Engine, and investing over ?100

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billion in infrastructure over the course of this Parliament across the

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UK. I'm encouraged by the chartdred s

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reply, but there is always the feeling in Northern Lincolnshire

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that we are peripheral from the northern para House and there is too

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much focus on Leeds and Manchester. Did the Government is sure ts that

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we are part of the scheme, `nd that regeneration projects in progress,

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had the chance one of its tdam agreed to make a delegation from

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north Lincolnshire separates you those?

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I can reassure my honourabld friend that that is not the case. Northeast

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Lincolnshire is a much a focus of the Government's attention. We have

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agreed deals with the Humber Local Enterprise Partnership, with ?1 0

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million. This includes support for a regeneration programme for the

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centre of Cleethorpes, as mx honourable friend will know. One of

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my ministerial team will be very happy to meet with him and his

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council colleagues. The floods in Yorkshire including in

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Leeds last Boxing Day cause devastation and many businesses

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still have not reopened. Wh`t conversations as the charts are

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having with insurance companies who have restricted cover, incrdased

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premiums and put up excesses, risking creating a ghost towns in

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many of our communities and risking jobs too?

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This is a matter on which the Minister for the Cabinet Office in

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Leeds, but I have some understanding of the issues as my own constituency

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were subject to serious flooding in 2014. I will talk to my right

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honourable friend, the Minister for the Cabinet Office and make him

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aware of the concerns laid out. Can I thank your for allowing not

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into takeover parliament today? I'm sure my right honourable frhend the

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Chancellor knows the benefits of the East Midlands because he usdd to

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work in Nottingham. I'm surd he also believes in the value of

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infrastructure projects. And I ask whether he's minded at all, as it

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prepares the Autumn Statement, to bring Ford HS2, making sure the

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Midlands hub, and also the `lleged location of the East Midlands Main

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line, all of which will bendfit Nottinghamshire?

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I thank my honourable friend for her question, indeed, Nottinghalshire is

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a part of the country I know well and have a great deal of affection

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for. The Government is completely seized of the need for

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infrastructure investment to support for the activity performancd of our

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economy. My right honourabld friend, the Transport Secretary, will be

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looking at the priority to be afforded to specific projects, and

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will make statements in due course. Given that the East Midlands and the

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West Midlands together could generate significant growth for our

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economy if it got there eyed road, rail and skills infrastructtre, will

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he acknowledge that, given ht is not a game in Parliament day-to,day

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that the Autumn Statement rdally should be bringing forward those

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ambitions in the Midlands Engine? The Government is committed to the

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Midlands Engine, and the honourable gentleman is absolutely right that

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the Midlands conurbation ovdrall has a weight of population and dconomic

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activity that allows it to be a rival to the hub of London `nd the

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South East. As I said to my honourable friend a minute `go,

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announcements about specific projects will be made in dud course

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by the relevant extra in a relevant departmental minister.

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One of the most important w`ys the Chancellor could boost economic

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growth outside of London and this at least pays is to energise slall

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business. I wonder if on th`t basis he would consider reviewing the

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small business enterprise scheme in the hope that he might supervise it

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or we could see a wall of private cash invested in small businesses?

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My friend is right, ensuring the right amount of funding in start-up

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enterprises is key to the ftture of our economy. I can assure hhm that

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all schemes, taxes and other such structures will be reviewed in the

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run-up to the Autumn Statemdnt, and I will let him know on Novelber 23

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my conclusions. Is the Chancellor of Excheqter aware

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that his predecessor introdtced a scheme that was raised upon robbing

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the Derbyshire County Counchl of ?155 million in cuts, and then

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promising to give them less than 20% of that money back? No wonddr the

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people in Bolsover marketpl`ce, they don't call it the Northern

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Powerhouse, it's the Northern Powerhouse.

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I know my right honourable friend will be wanting to look at the

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allocation of funding to local authorities, including Derbxshire

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County Council. As he will know there are many powerful advocate for

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Derbyshire on both sides of this House.

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I wish the honourable gentldman a speedy recovery, he can ask his

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question from his seat. Thank you, Mr Speaker. The

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Chancellor be aware that thd East Midlands has a trade surplus with

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China thanks to manufacturing interests in the area. Past

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chancellors have been keen to trumpet business interest in the

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Northern Powerhouse, would this help to turn the Colts in the middle and

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engine with future visits? Indeed, I well, it is an important

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part in the role of chancellors to act as a champion for busindsses in

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the North and the Midlands. Digest draw attention to inward investors

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like the Chinese, like the Hndians - who are of course already hdavily

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invested in the East Midlands - to opportunities exist in the TK beyond

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London and the South East, which are sometimes not so obvious to foreign

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investors as those that exist in London.

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In order to boost growth outside of London and they said these place,

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there should be a focus on manufacturing and its assochated

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innovation research and devdlopment. The UK's record on RND development

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is lamentable competitor competitors. But they Chancdllor

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take the committee to reverse the Autumn Statement and confirl funding

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for grants and loans? We've supported ?22 billion of

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research and about meant spdnding through the tax credit spending

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examine microsystem. The right honourable gentleman is correct

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the... Aaron Best meant in research and is considerably less th`n many

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of our principal competitors. I can promise him we are acutely `ware of

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this challenge, and I will `ddress that challenge the Autumn Statement.

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I take that as revealed good news story some point to come. In order

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to boost growth we need to take export more seriously, incltding to

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the EU, given our teeth bal`nce has gone into reverse over the past two

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years. -- trade balance. In order to reflect that, what efforts hs the

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Chancellor making to roll ott a hard Brexit, with visas, tariff barriers,

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and enter the customs union - all of which the Treasury themselvds say

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could lead still laws of 66 billion of revenue, a reduction... Could

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possibly lead to the reducthon of half a million jobs.

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I know the SNP doesn't like a good news story, and I'm sure thd

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gentlemen will be able to think of a suitable response by Novembdr 2 in

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case is one on that day. On the wider issue of managing Britain s

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exit from the European Union, the Prime Minister has been verx clear,

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we understand the instructions we have received from the Brithsh

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people, and within our obligation to deliver those, we will seek to get

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the very best deal we can whth the European Union that maximisds the

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amount of trade and goods and services between our companhes and

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the markets of the European Union and European companies and the UK

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market. Financial services are one of the

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sectors most exposed to Brexit, but it's not just jobs in the fhnancial

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sector which area at risk in London, it is Edinburgh, Manchester and

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beyond. The responses so far happy incoherence, firms need reassurances

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they will get compatible access to the single market and the ability to

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maintain EU National work for them. With the Chancellor finally bit the

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end to his Government's chaos and promised to deliver both today?

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He is right to identify fin`ncial services as one of the areas

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particular date concerned about the way in which the exit from the

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European Union is managed, because the industry is particularlx

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dependent upon the passporthng resume which is in place. Hd is also

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right to draw attention to the often overlooked fact that 75% financial

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services jobs are outside London. This is an important, UK-wide

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industry. But on the specifhc point that he makes, I certainly have been

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seeking to reassure financi`l services businesses that we will put

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at their unease at the heart of our negotiation with the Europe`n Union.

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We understand their needs m`rket access. We also understand their

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needs to be able to engage the right skilled people. I said on the record

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and am happy to say again today that I do not believe that concerns the

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British people have expressdd about migration from the European Union

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relate to people with high skills and high pay. The problem that

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people are concerned about hs people taking entry-level jobs, and I see

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no likelihood that we will tse powers to control migration into the

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UK to prevent companies bringing highly skilled, highly paid workers

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hair. Mr Speaker, with your permission, if

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I could answer the question with question number four, in negotiating

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double taxation treaties thd UK objective is to reach an agreement

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that allocates taxing rights on the basis acceptable to both cotntries.

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Restrictive tract treaties hnhibit the ability of developing countries

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to spend money on things like schools and education and rdsearch

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shows along with Italy, the UK has the highest number of these, so is

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the minister willing to work with the Department for Internathonal

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Development to try and change that? I would disagree with the honourable

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gentleman. I think, in fact, the double taxation treaties actually

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help developing countries. They can remove uncertainty about thd way

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businesses might choose to lake investment and they can open up the

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route for fairer and more open trade. The majority of the TK double

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taxation treaties are based on the OCD model of taxation prevention and

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we work closely with countrhes to find a mutually acceptable treaty.

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Can the Minister tell us wh`t plans she has to carry out assesslents of

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the impact that the UK tax treaty has on developing countries? And if

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her department will offer poorer countries the opportunity to

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renegotiate treaties that do not do enough to support their devdlopment?

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As I said before, there is ` rolling programme of renegotiation to make

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sure that treaties reflect lodern standards, but more broadly, the UK

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has a proud record in terms of capacity building in this area and

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we lead international efforts to support developing countries in tax

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capacity building. One example is the differential id funds, `nd the

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OECD providing technical assistance to partner countries, so we can be

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proud of the record. In negotiation double tax treaties we are

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developing -- with developing an advanced nations will you look at

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the transport provisions so we can broaden the tax base and stop the

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likes of Apple, Amazon and Google gaining taxes from us. The TK is

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committed to make sure that UK companies pay a fair share of tax in

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the countries they are oper`ting in. In terms of the wider international

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tax fairness I reiterate th`t the UK has taken a very strong stands

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across the board on a number of issues but I'm always happy to speak

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to my honourable friend abott the issue because I know he is very

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expert and we would welcome his views on these issues.

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The government has taken stdps to maintain a world-class business

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environment that helps UK manufacturers thrive and it's why we

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have cut corporation tax from 2 % down to 20% and it will fall further

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to 17% and why we have supported ?22 billion of R and D through tax

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credits, which helps the manufacturers to grow as innovative,

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competitive countries. I welcome the response, but what message hs he

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sending to international manufacturing companies with

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operations in Britain about this country's future international

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competitiveness as we leave the European Union? Our message is

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straightforward. Britain is open for business, as the Prime Minister

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said, and we will continue to be a confident, outward looking country.

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Manufacturing for the long term depends on investment, long,term

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investment. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of us

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potentially leaving the European investment bank, and what progress

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has there been, and any discussions about us maintaining our st`te? In

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terms of the European investment bank, we are in discussions with

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them. Will he agree with me that reducing anti-competitive m`rket

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distortions is both a great physical way to promote manufacturing and to

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ensure the country's best place for new trade deals? -- Best pl`ced I

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agree that removing distorthons in the economy will result in ` more

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efficient economy and the UK Government has a record of doing

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that by release -- reducing corporation tax, for exampld. Apart

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from lowering corporation t`x in Northern Ireland, what other steps

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will the Chancellor and his ministerial team take to incentivise

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manufacturing in northern -, Northern Ireland? I do think in

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terms of freedom for Northern Ireland to set its corporathon tax

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rate is an important measurd in itself and we look forward to

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further progress on that. Of course, there will be in Autumn Statement

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next month whether government will set out its economic policy but as a

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government, we mentioned corporation tax and tax credits that were made

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more generous, these are all measures that have helped

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manufacturing businesses in Northern Ireland and elsewhere. Whild I

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welcome the ongoing commitmdnt to the northern powerhouse and

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manufacturing in my constittency and the department allocated funds for

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the Hub growth, but does thd Minister agree those investlent must

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seek maximum economic benefht in the current proposal will take `n

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existing pinch point down the road if we do not seek the chewing up of

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the carriageway down the a 64? Extremely tangential, so meriting an

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pithy response. I will look forward to examining the case for dtelling

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that road and the benefit that that will provide. Last month thd

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Chancellor proudly dismissed his predecessor's plans to cut

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corporation tax to 15%, but this week however we hear of plans

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hatched by senior government figures to cut corporation tax as low as 10%

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as part of a so-called Brexht nuclear option. This is despite the

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British Chambers of commercd and the Institute of directors stathng that

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cutting corporation tax would not be at the top of their wish list. Can

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the minister put an end to his government's reign of chaos and

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confirmed today what his long-term position is on corporation tax so

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that businesses have the st`bility they deserve? I'm not sure hf I was

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a labour frontbencher I would use the phrase reign of chaos. But let

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me just be very clear. The TK Government has rightly reduced

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corporation tax from 28% to 20% and we are legislating down to 07%. If

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there are any further announcements, that will be in a fiscal evdnt like

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the Autumn Statement or budget. I'm afraid that the other mental chaos

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we have seen on corporation tax is sadly replicated in terms of

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investment. The Chancellor promised to terror the previous budgdt and

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develop an industrial stratdgy before denying he was plannhng a

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spending splurge. A recent poll showed that almost two thirds of

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Britons agreed that the country is not doing enough to meet its

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infrastructure needs and we on this side agree. Can the Minister and his

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government 's chaotic record on investment and confirm how luch he

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plans to invest in infrastrtcture, and on what, and where will he get

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the money from? Can I just point out on the subject of corporation tax it

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wasn't that many months ago that on one day the Shadow Chancellor

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condemned the reduction down to 17% whilst the Labour Party comlittee

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voted for it. Can I also just be clear that in terms of

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infrastructure it's no good coming forward with incredible plans to

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spend 500 billion plan -- ?400 billion without any idea as to how

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it will be paid. The Chancellor will make a statement on the 23rd of

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November in terms of the policy on this, but to have some credhbility

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the Labour Party really need to change tack.

:20:15.:20:19.

The ?4.4 billion priority school building programme was established

:20:20.:20:26.

to rebuild or refurbish those school buildings in the worst condhtion

:20:27.:20:30.

across the country and the programme second phase was announced hn May

:20:31.:20:34.

2014 and feasibility studies are being carried out. In addithon we

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are allocating ?4.2 billion across 2015 up to 20 18, two local

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authorities, Academy trusts and partnerships maintaining thdir

:20:45.:20:49.

schools. I'd like to thank ly right honourable friend for his rdply but

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one high school in my consthtuency has been top priority for a rebuild.

:20:54.:21:02.

Can I ask my honourable fridnd that he looks at this carefully so we can

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finally give the pupils of the high school the school they deserve? I

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thank the honourable friend for his question. I understand his

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constituents disappointment that the school was not successful in its

:21:17.:21:19.

application to the priority building programme. We do need to prhoritise

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schools in the very worst conditions. I understand thd school

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buildings are receiving invdstment through the local authority and I

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understand they will have competing priorities for capital resotrces but

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I'm sure my honourable friend will be continuing to make the c`se for

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the school. With ?180 million spend it on phase one, will the government

:21:46.:21:51.

be tempted to back fill with second-rate PFI buildings, `nd what

:21:52.:21:55.

role will it have this programme? In terms of the record on school

:21:56.:22:00.

building, let me address th`t point. We have spent ?18 billion shnce 2010

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on the school estates and wd are committed to a further ?23 billion

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so pupils can be taught in facilities fit for the 21st century.

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Of course, we want to make sure that this is funded at the most

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appropriate value for money and sustainable way. With permission, I

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will answer this question together with questions seven, 12 and 14

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World-class infrastructure hs central to raising our country's

:22:31.:22:34.

productivity and around 3000 infrastructure projects havd been

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delivered across the UK since 2 10 with another 600 projects worth over

:22:39.:22:46.

?480 billion in the pipelind. We are investing over ?13 billion hn

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transport across the North, 5 billion in the Midlands and

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nationwide we are making thd largest investment in roads across the UK in

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a generation and rail is experiencing a level of invdstment

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not seen since Victorian tiles. I thank the Chancellor for thd answer.

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Can he ensure that the lower Thames crossing option preferred bx the

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highways agency quickly and speedily taken forward, which will enhance

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the investment in Medway and the whole of the Thames Gateway area in

:23:16.:23:18.

facilitating house-building and encouraging business growth and

:23:19.:23:23.

supporting existing infrastructure in the Kent area? I commend my

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honourable friend for the w`y he has campaigned on the issue and we

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recognise the importance of this crossing for supporting the economy

:23:32.:23:34.

on both sides of the Thames, particularly given the constrained

:23:35.:23:40.

capacity at Dartford. It will produce significant benefits

:23:41.:23:42.

locally, regionally and nathonally and the government will be laking a

:23:43.:23:46.

decision on the location and root in due course. Conservative controlled

:23:47.:23:52.

Southend Council were very disappointed they were unsuccessful

:23:53.:23:55.

in their bid to the coastal communities fund. Would my right

:23:56.:23:58.

honourable friend agreed to meet myself, the leader of the council,

:23:59.:24:04.

and others, so we might share with him why we do need investment in

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infrastructure, particularlx as Southend is the alternative city of

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culture next year. Well Mr Speaker, my honourable friend makes ` good

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point. The government recognises the ongoing growth potential of

:24:16.:24:22.

Southend. The government's substantial investment that includes

:24:23.:24:24.

over ?40 million through thd south-east growth deal and the 014

:24:25.:24:30.

city deal. The government announced last year that the coastal

:24:31.:24:32.

communities fund would be extended over this Parliament, at le`st

:24:33.:24:36.

another ?90 million of further funding is available to prolote

:24:37.:24:40.

sustainable economic growth and jobs within the UK's coastal comlunities

:24:41.:24:44.

and I would strongly encour`ge Southend Borough Council to apply to

:24:45.:24:50.

this funding. We welcome yotr comments on the infrastructtre,

:24:51.:24:59.

would he now commit to workhng with us all to secure the funding for the

:25:00.:25:03.

duelling of the Eastern byp`ss around my constituency of Lhncoln

:25:04.:25:06.

which will greatly support not only the development of the city, but

:25:07.:25:10.

also the whole of greater Lincolnshire. I recognise mx

:25:11.:25:14.

honourable friend's commitmdnt to his preferred version of thd

:25:15.:25:17.

project. Funding has been m`de available for the provision of the

:25:18.:25:23.

Lincoln Eastern bypass. In the county council's preferred version,

:25:24.:25:28.

a single carriageway road, `nd as my honourable friend will know, the

:25:29.:25:32.

county council is not in favour of restarting the process from scratch

:25:33.:25:36.

and introducing further del`ys, so I cannot, I'm afraid, give hil any

:25:37.:25:40.

confidence that additional funding will be made available to adopt a

:25:41.:25:46.

dualling solution. I was pldased that in the last budget statement

:25:47.:25:50.

the previous Chancellor announced the new Thames Street 2015 growth

:25:51.:25:56.

commission to focus on delivering essential infrastructure, and

:25:57.:25:59.

development for this crucial region. Could I ask my right honour`ble

:26:00.:26:03.

friend for assurances that this commission, led by Lord Hesdltine,

:26:04.:26:04.

will continue to be I'm Brad my honourable friend has

:26:05.:26:14.

raised this point. The tens S3 growth commission has been `sked to

:26:15.:26:21.

raise an ambitious plan and for the area. I'm grateful to Lord Heseltine

:26:22.:26:26.

and his commissioners for bringing this report. I look forward to

:26:27.:26:29.

receiving the interim report ahead of the budget next year when I will

:26:30.:26:34.

give a response to it. When the Chancellor came to the

:26:35.:26:37.

Treasury Select Committee l`st week, he was unsure as to whether or not

:26:38.:26:43.

they were doing analysis by region of the effect of leaving thd

:26:44.:26:47.

European Union. He's had a week to find out, could you give thd House

:26:48.:26:51.

the answer, please? I think if the honourable l`dy

:26:52.:26:55.

checks a video she will find I was not unsure, I was advising lyself

:26:56.:26:59.

service colleague that I understood we were doing such regional

:27:00.:27:05.

analysis. It is the case at we're doing regional analysis, and that

:27:06.:27:09.

will help to inform the prilers to's negotiation strategy.

:27:10.:27:14.

With the Chancellor agree whth me that energy efficiency should be a

:27:15.:27:20.

priority for development nationally and regionally. Would he consider

:27:21.:27:24.

that proceeds of the Shell gas sovereign wealth fund should be at

:27:25.:27:29.

her efficiency measures so that we can encourage innovation?

:27:30.:27:38.

I'm not necessarily an favotr of earmarking hypothetical funds for

:27:39.:27:42.

that purpose, but I do think the honourable lady makes an important

:27:43.:27:45.

point is, we have a serious challenge over energy capachty in

:27:46.:27:50.

this country over the next 20 years, and we're going to have to hnvest

:27:51.:27:56.

large sums of money, and allost ?100 billion, just ensure the lights stay

:27:57.:28:03.

on. Of course it makes sensd to reduce energy demand through

:28:04.:28:09.

conservation measures, alongside existing measures.

:28:10.:28:17.

Last week, the infrastructure measure in the Northern Ireland

:28:18.:28:19.

Executive announced a major infrastructure projects in Belfast

:28:20.:28:24.

with beats stopped because ht's unlikely to be stopped before the

:28:25.:28:29.

end of the period when we ldave the map, and their four funding would be

:28:30.:28:35.

lost. That the minister let us know, has the infrastructure Minister had

:28:36.:28:39.

any discussions with him about this project, and Kenny gave asstrance to

:28:40.:28:43.

the Northern Ireland Executhve that any project started before we leave

:28:44.:28:48.

the EU weather is a funding gap will be bridged by the Treasury?

:28:49.:28:54.

I'm not aware of the project he refers to, as virus I'm where the

:28:55.:28:58.

Northern Ireland Executive have not been in touch with the Treasury We

:28:59.:29:02.

have made two announcements, an announcement that confirms `ll

:29:03.:29:06.

projects signed before the @utumn Statement in the normal course of

:29:07.:29:10.

business would be guaranteed whatever, whether they conthnue to

:29:11.:29:15.

be funded by the EU or not `fter our exit. I made a further statdment

:29:16.:29:19.

that says after the Autumn Statement, any new EU funded

:29:20.:29:25.

projects, as long as they p`ss our priorities test, will get the same

:29:26.:29:29.

guarantee. However long thex last, they will be funded by the TK

:29:30.:29:36.

Treasury want EU funding stops. This Government continues to be in

:29:37.:29:40.

chaos of its flagship, so cold, Northern Powerhouse. I live there, I

:29:41.:29:46.

see it every day, they have no long-term industrial strategy.

:29:47.:29:50.

Meanwhile, notwithstanding what the Chancellor said earlier, regional

:29:51.:29:55.

economies are still bring from - suffering from lack of investment.

:29:56.:30:00.

Particular date transport infrastructure. A problem now

:30:01.:30:05.

compounded by Brexit. What plans does the Chancellor have set and

:30:06.:30:09.

this uncertainty and finallx bring to this House a rebalancing or an

:30:10.:30:12.

enhancement of regional transport ever structure spending?

:30:13.:30:19.

I urge the honourable gentldman not to talk down the North and the

:30:20.:30:23.

importance of the Northern Powerhouse. The Northern Powerhouse

:30:24.:30:27.

is an important part of the Government's strategy, and the new

:30:28.:30:31.

Prime Minister has made cle`r her commitment to it. When he's right is

:30:32.:30:38.

in drawing attention to the shortfall of infrastructure

:30:39.:30:41.

investment in the UK overall compared to our principal

:30:42.:30:44.

competitors. That is an isste we have to address at national level,

:30:45.:30:48.

looking for the best value for money, ie, the projects will give

:30:49.:30:53.

the greatest contribution to closing that productivity gap.

:30:54.:31:03.

Question number eight, Mr Speaker. The Office For Budget Responsibility

:31:04.:31:05.

are responsible for forecasting contributions to the EU. Thdy will

:31:06.:31:11.

update that Autumn Statement 20 6. The contribution of the perhod was

:31:12.:31:18.

26 billion pounds. Thank you for that response. In

:31:19.:31:22.

spite of all the spending pledges which are being made today `nd

:31:23.:31:27.

recently, hospitals, schools police and roads in my constituencx

:31:28.:31:29.

certainly do need a boost in spending is. Does the most `gree

:31:30.:31:34.

with me that the sooner we leave the European Union, the sooner that

:31:35.:31:38.

money will be available for them? What I say to my honourable friend

:31:39.:31:42.

is that any money saved will depend on the overall fiscal situation and

:31:43.:31:46.

the broader economic environment. Decisions on spending will be taken

:31:47.:31:52.

in the round at Autumn Statdment and budgets. But was to remain lembers

:31:53.:32:01.

of the European Union, we h`ve two continue to pay in.

:32:02.:32:06.

On the day of the EU referendum I met an NHS worker who voted to leave

:32:07.:32:10.

the European Union, precisely because she thought there would be

:32:11.:32:14.

more money available to the NHS banks did the ?350 million per week

:32:15.:32:18.

in place and on the Vote Le`ve abuzz. I want to know and she wants

:32:19.:32:21.

to know, when we leave the Duropean Union, are we getting that loney?

:32:22.:32:30.

It's certainly not for me to justify or explain the pledges made by the

:32:31.:32:37.

Leave campaign. But what I would say is, when it comes to public spending

:32:38.:32:42.

decisions, that needs to be taken in the context of the economic and

:32:43.:32:46.

fiscal situation. One appreciate the getting back our

:32:47.:32:55.

EU contribution was a factor in the referendum, what the Ministdr

:32:56.:32:59.

confirm that this administr`tion is at least open to the idea of paying

:33:00.:33:03.

some contribution in the future if we are to get some sort of `ccess to

:33:04.:33:07.

the single market for financial services is, or indeed in

:33:08.:33:11.

relationship to passporting and is equivalence, though could bd some

:33:12.:33:15.

sort of contribution? The important thing is for the

:33:16.:33:18.

United Kingdom to get the bdst possible deal in our negoti`tions

:33:19.:33:22.

with the European Union. I don't think it makes sense to bind our

:33:23.:33:28.

hands, close down options, `t this point. Nor is it right that we

:33:29.:33:32.

provide a running commentarx on this matter.

:33:33.:33:38.

Wales will continue to recehve convergence funding while wd are in

:33:39.:33:42.

the EU. In any case, what the Treasury on the Prime Minister's

:33:43.:33:50.

pledge to continue the Swansea Railway, making a part of the

:33:51.:33:55.

pan-European network, and m`ke it part of a manufacturing hub two will

:33:56.:34:00.

he met on that pledge? That is a matter for the Tr`nsport

:34:01.:34:06.

Secretary. As the Chancellor has made clear, this Government is

:34:07.:34:08.

committed to improving our infrastructure.

:34:09.:34:19.

Number nine, sir. The Government is committed to

:34:20.:34:24.

helping the Midlands in terls of its economic potential and making it a

:34:25.:34:27.

powerful engine for growth. We're backing skills, innovation hn the

:34:28.:34:32.

automotive and aerospace injuries examine map industries and putting

:34:33.:34:39.

power into local people's h`nds by voting a new mayor for the Lidlands.

:34:40.:34:43.

I think it's also in order to mention our excellent candidate in

:34:44.:34:49.

this race. I thank him for the answer. A report

:34:50.:34:55.

earlier this year suggested 53 billion could be contributed at to

:34:56.:35:01.

the UK economy by the East Lidlands by 2020, reflecting the central role

:35:02.:35:04.

the area continues to play hn driving growth. Does my honourable

:35:05.:35:08.

friend agree that to sustain this triggered a success it is absolutely

:35:09.:35:12.

vital we continue to deliver an investment in Leicestershird's

:35:13.:35:14.

roads, rail and broader infrastructure. Might I instructed

:35:15.:35:24.

my colleague on the benefits of the blue pencil?

:35:25.:35:33.

Very good advice, Mr Speaker. Investment in infrastructurd between

:35:34.:35:36.

our major cities is vital. We are investing over five billion in

:35:37.:35:41.

transport infrastructure to put the Midlands at the heart of a lodern

:35:42.:35:45.

transport network. Pettiness personified.

:35:46.:35:54.

Can the Minister confirm no be no delays today I'd have locathon of

:35:55.:35:58.

the East Midlands railway lhne. Yes, he can.

:35:59.:36:10.

Question Time, Mr Speaker. If people feel they have had their

:36:11.:36:15.

tax credits incorrectly withdrawn, they should urgently contact HMRC.

:36:16.:36:22.

It will review all complaint cases and pay redress where appropriate.

:36:23.:36:27.

Labour welcomes the cancell`tion of the Concentrix contract, with the

:36:28.:36:34.

Minister reassure the thous`nds of single parents that their t`x

:36:35.:36:43.

credit, erroneously stocked by Concentrix, will be reinstated

:36:44.:36:46.

immediately, said their children can be kept safe and warm and not go

:36:47.:36:51.

unsaid as winter approaches? She is right to draw the Hotse's

:36:52.:36:59.

attention to vulnerable clahmants. She may be interested to know that

:37:00.:37:03.

HMRC had a further drop in for colleagues on the 19th of October,

:37:04.:37:08.

attended by 15 members and ` number of complaints and issues were raised

:37:09.:37:12.

their, which we are on the way to resolving. In terms of rest`rting

:37:13.:37:20.

claims, is to get right information. HMRC had taken back a vast number of

:37:21.:37:25.

cases, and I will say more `bout this tomorrow, their priority is to

:37:26.:37:28.

get the right information and get them started again as soon `s factor

:37:29.:37:33.

established. After a previous question, the

:37:34.:37:38.

Minister said, demands to bd paid to the supplier are reduced as actual

:37:39.:37:42.

performance fails to meet standards set in the contract. Does that

:37:43.:37:47.

include penalties for withdrawing tax credit when they should not have

:37:48.:37:51.

been withdrawn? The terms of the contract bdtween

:37:52.:37:56.

HMRC and Concentrix are in the public domain. It is right that when

:37:57.:38:00.

performance is not as per the contract, there are associated

:38:01.:38:05.

deductions. I will be in a position to offer the House more information

:38:06.:38:08.

on the contract tomorrow during the opposition day debate.

:38:09.:38:12.

A number of my constituents have been affected by this, not least one

:38:13.:38:17.

who was a front line police officer, who had her benefits withdr`wn,

:38:18.:38:24.

meaning her childcare could not be paid, and she could potenti`lly be

:38:25.:38:29.

unable to go to work. One officer intervened and benefits werd but

:38:30.:38:34.

what is you going to do further people are upset about this

:38:35.:38:36.

treatment is? That two things here - if pdople do

:38:37.:38:41.

feel the tax credits have bden incorrectly withdrawn because of

:38:42.:38:44.

errors, they should contact HMRC will review it and redress can be

:38:45.:38:50.

made. There is a second point that customers can as a mandatorx

:38:51.:38:53.

reconsideration, when they don't feel their circumstances had been

:38:54.:38:58.

correctly identified. Some of the time, that is because peopld don't

:38:59.:39:02.

send through the right information until they've...

:39:03.:39:09.

Mr Speaker, the UK will leave the European Union and introducd control

:39:10.:39:12.

of migration between Britain and the EU. Working with officials `cross

:39:13.:39:23.

governments, the Government undertakes to a number of

:39:24.:39:26.

contingencies will stop I'm afraid were not going to provide a running

:39:27.:39:30.

commentary. We do want the best outcome for the UK, which mdans

:39:31.:39:35.

Alaba spoke arrangements whhch allows companies access to Duropean

:39:36.:39:40.

markets. There was many failed targets and

:39:41.:39:45.

plans, including ?1 trillion of export, a target which is nowhere

:39:46.:39:49.

near being reached, and that is with full access to the single m`rket.

:39:50.:39:55.

Other markets such as Germany, meanwhile, explore more than us to

:39:56.:39:59.

China and other markets. Dods the Chancellor agree that the f`ilure

:40:00.:40:02.

the Government to improve the export performance has led the Govdrnment

:40:03.:40:05.

unable to take advantage of opportunities outside the ET. I

:40:06.:40:10.

think the honourable lady should prove a powerful person in the

:40:11.:40:15.

library of the House. What the Government can support and

:40:16.:40:21.

enable exporters, it cannot do their job for them. It is for exporters to

:40:22.:40:25.

make their businesses competitive and sell their wares around the

:40:26.:40:29.

world. We will do everything we can to support them in that enddavour.

:40:30.:40:36.

Does my honourable friend agree that unless the European Union are going

:40:37.:40:41.

to impose trade sanctions on the UK, there will be nothing to stop us to

:40:42.:40:44.

have access to the single m`rket when we leave?

:40:45.:40:49.

My honourable friend is right in the sense that every nation that is a

:40:50.:40:57.

member of the WTO, and we are a member of the WTO, has the right to

:40:58.:41:02.

access the markets of other members and WTO times. But those tiles will

:41:03.:41:06.

be challenging for some othdr industries. For example, thd

:41:07.:41:09.

automotive industry, the wittier terms apply a temper sent G`reth on

:41:10.:41:13.

the car is markets. the Chancellor will know th`t West

:41:14.:41:22.

Yorkshire is the beating he`rt of the manufacturing economy in this

:41:23.:41:27.

country. Can I tell him that my manufacturing leaders and the

:41:28.:41:30.

employees Federation feel ldft out of the loop in terms of what their

:41:31.:41:35.

future is after Brexit. Could he reassure them? They are disturbed

:41:36.:41:40.

that the future. I can reassure the honourable gentleman that

:41:41.:41:44.

manufacturing industry is vdry much at the forefront of our thinking as

:41:45.:41:48.

we approach these negotiations and I'm sorry I've not had a ch`nce to

:41:49.:41:51.

go to West Yorkshire, but I have been engaging with businessds in all

:41:52.:41:57.

sectors of the economy incltding many businesses from the North who

:41:58.:42:01.

have attended a roundtable discussions in Downing Stredt over

:42:02.:42:04.

the last few weeks to set ott their concerns so we can take thel

:42:05.:42:09.

properly into account. In wdlcoming my right honourable friend's stands

:42:10.:42:17.

on this, could I suggest as it's not only a large balance of paylents

:42:18.:42:20.

deficit with Europe but specifically a large one on automotive, ht is in

:42:21.:42:26.

the EU's interest to strike a decent deal with us, as he intends to do.

:42:27.:42:33.

Mr Speaker, our intention is to get the very best deal that we can with

:42:34.:42:38.

our neighbours in the Europdan Union to allow access for our companies to

:42:39.:42:43.

trade their goods and services into the European Union. But I would

:42:44.:42:48.

caution him that looking at him -- the economic arguments alond is the

:42:49.:42:51.

mission very important point. There is a political debate going on in

:42:52.:42:57.

Europe, where European politicians are very conscious of the ilpact of

:42:58.:43:02.

Britain's departure on their political project. And I don't think

:43:03.:43:07.

we can be certain that economics alone will dictate the course of

:43:08.:43:08.

this negotiation. Mr Speaker, the government has

:43:09.:43:19.

provided a guarantee that all European structural and invdstment

:43:20.:43:23.

project signed before the Attumn Statement and we have also provided

:43:24.:43:28.

a guaranteed for all ESI F project signed after the Autumn Statement

:43:29.:43:34.

and before the UK departure from the European Union provided thex pass

:43:35.:43:36.

the test of value for money and are in line with domestic stratdgic

:43:37.:43:43.

priorities. I listened closdly to the Chancellor's previous answers

:43:44.:43:46.

about regional distribution of investment and the latest fhgures

:43:47.:43:50.

show that only a quarter of national infrastructure projects are either

:43:51.:43:53.

in the North west or north dast of England with just one of thd top

:43:54.:43:57.

funded 25 project actually hn the area. With further damaging cuts to

:43:58.:44:02.

net investment due to come during the remainder of the parlialent

:44:03.:44:06.

where will this government `ddress the inequality, match its rhetoric

:44:07.:44:09.

with action and start properly funding the northern powerhouse I

:44:10.:44:13.

make three points to the zero honourable lady. First of all we

:44:14.:44:18.

have an Autumn Statement in three weeks and I will set out more of the

:44:19.:44:22.

forward plans that time, and secondly I am not sure of the top of

:44:23.:44:26.

my head what the population proportion of the UK in the

:44:27.:44:30.

north-west and north-east rdgions is, but if the figures she puotes

:44:31.:44:34.

are correct, a quarter of infrastructure investment, H'm not

:44:35.:44:37.

so sure that that is a disproportionate underfunding. I

:44:38.:44:40.

would need to check that. The third point I would make, it is the case

:44:41.:44:46.

that the very large investmdnt in Crossrail is a strategicallx

:44:47.:44:50.

important national Roger Kahn has had the effect of skewing

:44:51.:44:52.

infrastructure investment towards London over the last few ye`rs -

:44:53.:44:58.

extremely important national project. Can I thank him for his

:44:59.:45:04.

interest in these topics. The natural infrastructure commhttee

:45:05.:45:09.

says that the smart energy system would be put at between ?8 billion

:45:10.:45:15.

per year by 2030. I'm grateful for the Minister for his response. Head

:45:16.:45:22.

of the Autumn Statement, wotld the minister look at the role of the

:45:23.:45:26.

Treasury that it might play in digitising the energy systel by

:45:27.:45:29.

accelerating the StorageTek knowledges, demand-side response on

:45:30.:45:33.

the upgrade of the distribution networks so we can get the

:45:34.:45:37.

productivity gains he expects? The Treasury will continue to work with

:45:38.:45:42.

the Department for business, energy and strategy to drive forward a

:45:43.:45:44.

smart energy system. The government has committed to implement hn the

:45:45.:45:50.

recommendations in full. Topical question. Mr Speaker, my prhncipal

:45:51.:45:58.

responsibilities to ensure the stability and prosperity of the

:45:59.:46:03.

economy and in the current circumstances that requires a

:46:04.:46:07.

combination of the time measures to respond to the shock that the

:46:08.:46:10.

economy has received an longer-term measures to manage structur`l

:46:11.:46:15.

adjustments as the UK transhtions out of the EU. Mr Speaker, today is

:46:16.:46:25.

my 30th wedding anniversary. So I hope the Chancellor will john me in

:46:26.:46:30.

wishing the long-suffering Lrs Double and a happy annivers`ry. Take

:46:31.:46:37.

a Brazilian -- below for thd tax breaks for married people, `nd easy

:46:38.:46:43.

going to try and increase this and I would encourage him to do so. I will

:46:44.:46:47.

join him in wishing the honourable member and his wife a very happy

:46:48.:46:52.

30th anniversary. Taking my cue from last week I'm probably not going to

:46:53.:46:56.

suggest how Mrs Double might commemorate the event. He is quite

:46:57.:47:02.

right to highlight the valud of a marriage in society and I hope I can

:47:03.:47:05.

reassure him that the government remains firmly committed to

:47:06.:47:09.

supporting the important institution through the marriage allowance. A

:47:10.:47:15.

married couple could benefit by up to ?432 per year. We have jtst

:47:16.:47:20.

passed the landmark of 1 million families who have made succdssful

:47:21.:47:22.

applications but I agree with my honourable friend that uptake is not

:47:23.:47:27.

enough and that is reason, darly next month, HM RC will launch a new

:47:28.:47:30.

campaign to increase awarendss and take-up of the marriage allowance.

:47:31.:47:37.

If I can bring the Chancellor back to Brexit, and happy anniversary by

:47:38.:47:41.

the way, and the role of his department before the referdndum, he

:47:42.:47:44.

said that the Treasury publhshed a paper warning about the dangers of

:47:45.:47:50.

leaving the single market would be up to ?67 billion loss. Last week

:47:51.:47:53.

the permanent Secretary to the Treasury told a select commhttee

:47:54.:47:57.

that these figures were not directly applicable and then the Chancellor

:47:58.:48:01.

questioned his own department's calculation is by referring to

:48:02.:48:04.

mitigation factors not taken into account. There is not just funding

:48:05.:48:08.

chaos on Brexit in the Cabinet, it's in the Treasury as well it seems.

:48:09.:48:12.

Can the Chancellor clarify dxactly what is his department's adtlation

:48:13.:48:17.

for the Outlook to public fhnances if access to the single market is

:48:18.:48:22.

not achieved -- calculation. The honourable gentleman can calculate

:48:23.:48:27.

it how he likes, but all economic models have to make assumpthons In

:48:28.:48:30.

terms of that model the Tre`sury produced in April it assumed no

:48:31.:48:34.

policy response by government, and we know there has been a policy

:48:35.:48:38.

response in the form of the monetary expansion delivered by the Bank of

:48:39.:48:43.

England on August two. And ht assumed that the article 15 notice

:48:44.:48:46.

would be served immediately after the referendum, and as we now know

:48:47.:48:52.

that is not the case --. Article 50. The honourable gentleman will just

:48:53.:48:55.

have to wait until the Novelber 23rd when the Obi I will publish the

:48:56.:49:05.

forecast. -- ODI. -- oh BR. There is no figure attached, just confirms

:49:06.:49:09.

the chaos in Cabinet and in his department. Can I ask the Chancellor

:49:10.:49:14.

to pass on thanks to the officials in the department to very hdlpfully

:49:15.:49:17.

published on the Treasury wdbsite the document labelled public sector

:49:18.:49:21.

finances briefing, official, sensitive for internal use only

:49:22.:49:27.

This document does at least give us some information in that it confirms

:49:28.:49:30.

that the government is failhng to meet predictions on tax recdipts and

:49:31.:49:35.

deficit reduction. It also reveals that this is based upon acthvity

:49:36.:49:40.

from before the referendum, so any post-referendum downturn will

:49:41.:49:44.

exacerbate this. Does this document prove once and for all that far from

:49:45.:49:48.

fixing the roof while the stn is shining, this country was

:49:49.:49:53.

scandalously economically or prepared and politically totally

:49:54.:49:57.

unprepared for the Brexit ddcision? Just so the honourable gentleman is

:49:58.:50:00.

absolutely clear, it's quitd wrong to suggest that my department

:50:01.:50:04.

doesn't have any figures. It does have figures, I'm just not giving

:50:05.:50:11.

them to him. As for the doctment he has spent such a lot of timd rather

:50:12.:50:14.

unsuccessfully trying to tott around the media, it was published by

:50:15.:50:19.

mistake but all of the figures in this document have already been

:50:20.:50:23.

published elsewhere. All of them are in the public domain. Kevin

:50:24.:50:31.

Lancaster and Simon Davies started their business from scratch in the

:50:32.:50:37.

year 2000 and they now generate ?1.7 million in profit and a leading

:50:38.:50:42.

industrial cooling firm. Last week the Institute of physics aw`rded it

:50:43.:50:47.

a business innovation award for its innovative application of physics or

:50:48.:50:50.

generating jobs and profit. Will the Chancellor joined me in

:50:51.:50:54.

congratulating them and outlining what the government is doing to

:50:55.:50:58.

support research and develop in so other self starters like Kevin and

:50:59.:51:03.

Simon can grow? I think all of the Treasury ministers would be

:51:04.:51:07.

delighted to congratulate the company on the innovation award they

:51:08.:51:11.

have one. Of course the govdrnment touched on this earlier and we are

:51:12.:51:15.

committed to supporting resdarch and development in British businesses

:51:16.:51:18.

provided one of the most generous tax credits schemes in the world to

:51:19.:51:22.

small businesses and it is claimed by over 20,000 businesses. Why does

:51:23.:51:28.

the Chancellor believe that corporation tax receipts collapsed

:51:29.:51:32.

in September 2016 to their lowest level since 2009, and why does he

:51:33.:51:36.

believe they will overshoot the OBR forecast this year? I'm sorry to be

:51:37.:51:41.

boring, but all of these issues will be addressed at the financi`l Autumn

:51:42.:51:46.

Statement when we have the latest fiscal projections from the OBR I

:51:47.:51:52.

know there will be a statemdnt in a moment but it's been reportdd that

:51:53.:51:55.

Heathrow has been the chosen option for expansion. It is import`nt

:51:56.:51:58.

therefore that every part of the UK benefits from this and so do the

:51:59.:52:02.

regional airports. Would he agree to meet with me how we can improve

:52:03.:52:06.

connectivity to Leeds Bradford Airport and how we might get funding

:52:07.:52:11.

for a rail link? As my honotrable friend on the house will know, the

:52:12.:52:15.

announcement has been made that the airport committee this mornhng

:52:16.:52:22.

decided to move ahead with the North West runway at Heathrow, and my

:52:23.:52:25.

right honourable friend, thd Transport Secretary, will m`ke a

:52:26.:52:28.

statement to the house very shortly. My honourable friend is verx right.

:52:29.:52:33.

Regional connectivity is vitally important, and regional slots at

:52:34.:52:36.

Heathrow have been squeezed out by the pressure on the runways there

:52:37.:52:41.

and we will ensure, as part of the package, that regional slots are

:52:42.:52:46.

protected in the future. Tens of thousands of UK jobs depend on euro

:52:47.:52:53.

denominated clearing in the UK. Could the Chancellor Telles how

:52:54.:52:55.

important he regards it that it should still be permissible in the

:52:56.:53:00.

UK after we leave the Europdan Union -- tell us? The right honourable

:53:01.:53:06.

gentleman but a finger on an important issue, and he will know

:53:07.:53:09.

that we've already had one go at trying to prevent euro denolinated

:53:10.:53:12.

clearing from taking place hn the UK and it's no doubt a very iconic

:53:13.:53:18.

issue for many of our Europdan partners. It is an important part of

:53:19.:53:23.

the overall financial structure in London and not easily separ`ted from

:53:24.:53:27.

the other activities that operate in London but in terms of jobs and

:53:28.:53:32.

value attached to it, it is a relatively small part of thd total.

:53:33.:53:38.

What's he planning to do with Bradford and Bingley's assets? Mr

:53:39.:53:44.

Speaker, following the annotncement in budget 2016, we have launched a

:53:45.:53:50.

programme of sales of Bradford Bingley mortgage assets that it

:53:51.:53:53.

holds. This will be designed to raise sufficient proceeds to repay

:53:54.:54:00.

the ?15.56 billion debt to the financial services compensation

:54:01.:54:02.

scheme and, in turn, the corresponding loan from the Treasury

:54:03.:54:07.

and it is expected, subject to market conditions and ensurhng value

:54:08.:54:10.

for money, that this progralme of sales will have concluded in full by

:54:11.:54:16.

the end of 2017/ 18. The government gave ?5 million in funding for the

:54:17.:54:22.

refurbishment of collection in my consistency Mac came from c`sh

:54:23.:54:24.

collecting from the Libor scandal. Will he look at a similar ftnding

:54:25.:54:31.

scheme given that it is the bicentenary of the architect's berth

:54:32.:54:36.

next year and it needs some TLC I'm glad to say that at this st`ge of

:54:37.:54:41.

the process before the Autuln Statement I am able to say that all

:54:42.:54:44.

submissions will be carefully considered and if he lets md have

:54:45.:54:47.

something in writing, I will look at it. Could the Chancellor provide an

:54:48.:54:51.

update on what the government is minded to do with air passenger duty

:54:52.:54:57.

in response to impending ch`nges with APD in Scotland? The government

:54:58.:55:03.

is reviewing the potential options to support regional airports

:55:04.:55:06.

following the discussion paper from last year and we will set ott full

:55:07.:55:09.

details of the response in due course. We did receive 53 rdsponses

:55:10.:55:14.

to the consultation, and very constructive responses and we are

:55:15.:55:16.

looking careful at them -- carefully. Can I ask the Ch`ncellor

:55:17.:55:23.

what his assessment is on the inflationary pressure on goods and

:55:24.:55:27.

food over the next 12 months? Clearly the decline in the value of

:55:28.:55:32.

sterling will have an inflationary impact, but how quickly that passes

:55:33.:55:38.

through into the UK economy is a subject of modelling by all

:55:39.:55:43.

economists who carry out thdse types of analysis. The Bank of England

:55:44.:55:47.

will shortly be publishing hts next inflation report, and that should

:55:48.:55:50.

give an indication as to thd forward directory.

:55:51.:55:56.

Under what circumstances wotld my right honourable friend introduce

:55:57.:56:01.

another round of quantitative easing is requested by the Governor of the

:56:02.:56:06.

Bank of England? That is an important question. He

:56:07.:56:10.

knows the operation of monetary policy in the UK is independent of

:56:11.:56:15.

Government. Monetary policy, including quantitative easing, have

:56:16.:56:19.

been highly effective in supporting the economy. Because of the fiscal

:56:20.:56:23.

implications of an indemnitx for the bank, packages had to be formally

:56:24.:56:29.

agreed by the Chancellor. Although I cannot prejudge any hypothetical

:56:30.:56:33.

request, no request for quantitative easing has ever been refused, and I

:56:34.:56:37.

see no reason why circumstances would be different in the ftture.

:56:38.:56:47.

The latest reports for it the RBS bubble restrictor in show even more

:56:48.:56:53.

misconduct in this bank. Dods the Chancellor not believe he h`s an

:56:54.:56:58.

obligation to the people dods country to conduct a robust

:56:59.:57:03.

investigation into these allegations of misconduct?

:57:04.:57:08.

The SCA are looking at this important issue, and we awaht their

:57:09.:57:15.

view. Michael Fabricant is not here,

:57:16.:57:19.

that's unprecedented in the history of me being in this chair. For two,

:57:20.:57:28.

Mr Philip Davies is here. How much UK taxpayers' monex used to

:57:29.:57:35.

bailout other countries in the EU has been paid out to the UK and is

:57:36.:57:40.

still outstanding? And what is the Chancellor doing to make sure we get

:57:41.:57:43.

all this money back when we leave the European Union?

:57:44.:57:49.

No UK taxpayers' money is bding used in the EU's leading to other member

:57:50.:57:54.

states. Only in the event of default with the UK be asked to pay its

:57:55.:57:57.

share. What has the Chancellor madd of its

:57:58.:58:05.

predecessor's austerity economic sign the nation's prosperitx, and

:58:06.:58:09.

would he like to apologise for that divisive and discredited iddology?

:58:10.:58:16.

Irish she what assessment h`ve I made? Since 2010 we have brought

:58:17.:58:22.

this country back from the very brink. We have got borrowing down

:58:23.:58:29.

from other 10% of GDP, to around 4%of GDP, with more to deliver.

:58:30.:58:35.

We've created 2.7 million ndw jobs in this economy, making this economy

:58:36.:58:39.

the fastest-growing in the G-7 for the last three years. And the

:58:40.:58:44.

fastest job creator in the developed world. Adding that's erected to be

:58:45.:58:47.

proud of. To what level must the astronomical

:58:48.:58:53.

costs of the HS2 rise beford the Chancellor advice is his colleagues

:58:54.:59:01.

extra exam it matter that this project is no longer good v`lue for

:59:02.:59:06.

money for the taxpayer? What I would say is that we do

:59:07.:59:12.

believe HS2 is part of modernising our transport system and ensuring

:59:13.:59:15.

we've got infrastructure for the 21st-century.

:59:16.:59:24.

In the light of the upcoming RBS quote and given that pass sxstems

:59:25.:59:30.

for redress for small busindsses have been ad hoc, will the

:59:31.:59:36.

Chancellor meet with us to lake sure we can form an effective system of

:59:37.:59:42.

redress? He makes a fair point, but H think

:59:43.:59:46.

we shall wait until we recehve the report before we proceed.

:59:47.:59:54.

Mr Speaker, you have seen the latest survey that says that new as the

:59:55.:00:03.

happiest place in mainland Britain. However, what is testing thd people

:00:04.:00:07.

of newer is the appalling state of the local roads. What the Chancellor

:00:08.:00:14.

do a favour for the people of Newark and bring forward the new Ndwark

:00:15.:00:21.

bypass? As a former resident of this

:00:22.:00:26.

constituency, I'm delighted technology it's the happiest place

:00:27.:00:29.

in Britain. That may, some on my happiest times are in living there.

:00:30.:00:37.

As I said, we are currently in the process of receiving submissions

:00:38.:00:40.

from honourable members across the House, and I would be very happy to

:00:41.:00:44.

receive a written submission from my honourable friend.

:00:45.:00:48.

The Chancellor is considering investment in roads in his @utumn

:00:49.:00:52.

Statement is, well helix sympathetically at they need to

:00:53.:00:57.

support the vital Carrington development on the M60 and L62

:00:58.:01:03.

network, in order to support journeys in and out of the `rea

:01:04.:01:08.

I don't know the project thd honourable lady's talking about I

:01:09.:01:13.

assume it is a housing development. We're certainly very interested in

:01:14.:01:17.

the way infrastructure investments cannot only deliver in its own

:01:18.:01:20.

right, but also enable much,needed housing development. If she gives me

:01:21.:01:26.

a written submission, I will look into it.

:01:27.:01:31.

The last topical question. Does the Chancellor is a poor

:01:32.:01:35.

German's cyber innovation Cdntre, and as he grew of me that investing

:01:36.:01:43.

in our defence assets will project civilian jobs tomorrow?

:01:44.:01:48.

I was very privileged as Foreign Secretary for two years to have

:01:49.:01:55.

oversight of GCHQ for two ydars It is a world-class facility. Ht

:01:56.:01:58.

ensures not only security, but also a cutting edge business sector which

:01:59.:02:04.

is a sensible thing to do and I work in this excess of the Cheltdnham

:02:05.:02:12.

cyber innovation centre. What the Leader of the Housd of

:02:13.:02:15.

Commons make a statement in response to the second session on Prhvate

:02:16.:02:21.

members bills, and will he provide time for that to be debated?

:02:22.:02:28.

Mr Speaker, the Procedure Committee rubbishes reports last Tuesday. In

:02:29.:02:34.

my evidence to the committed last Wednesday, I said that the

:02:35.:02:37.

Government was considering the report and intended to respond in

:02:38.:02:42.

detail within the normal two month time frame. I'm happy to confirm

:02:43.:02:46.

that commitment to the Housd today. I thank him for that answer. Too

:02:47.:02:53.

often, on Fridays, when we have private members bills, it bleeds. It

:02:54.:02:58.

believes credibility and bldeds standing. The Government front bench

:02:59.:03:03.

is well aware of this fact. The procedure Select Committee for the

:03:04.:03:06.

past three years has been trying to bring its concerns to this House and

:03:07.:03:12.

gain Government support for some of our modest recommendations to

:03:13.:03:16.

restore some credibility and some faith in the process. Mr Spdaker,

:03:17.:03:22.

our recommendations, the colmittee's recommendations, would not

:03:23.:03:25.

necessarily mean that what happened this past Friday would not happen

:03:26.:03:30.

again, Mr Speaker. But it would demonstrate to the public that we,

:03:31.:03:36.

in this place, backbench Melbers of Parliament, take legislation it

:03:37.:03:40.

seriously, and we take a backbench legislation seriously. Mr Speaker,

:03:41.:03:45.

the truth is, without will on the behalf of the Government to change

:03:46.:03:49.

on Fridays, we will still h`ve too many days when we leave this place

:03:50.:03:54.

downcast and somewhat ashamdd at the proceedings that have gone before

:03:55.:04:00.

us. Mr Speaker, we have a lhstening Leader of the House, we havd a

:04:01.:04:04.

concerned Leader of the House. I hope he will receive our

:04:05.:04:08.

recommendations in a positive way and accept some small part of those

:04:09.:04:12.

recommendations. Particularly that part which allows the Backbdnch

:04:13.:04:18.

Business Committee to sign tp to the first-floor private members bills

:04:19.:04:21.

slot to members. That would encourage serious legislators in

:04:22.:04:25.

this play is to invest time and energy, working with each other for

:04:26.:04:29.

a year or more, to come up ` legislative proposition that if it

:04:30.:04:34.

did not come up with the support of this has, at least demanded the

:04:35.:04:37.

attention of this House when it came before it.

:04:38.:04:41.

Thank you. My honourable friend has provided as

:04:42.:04:44.

is linked summary of some of the recommendations of his commhttee's

:04:45.:04:48.

report. He has campaigned strongly and honourably for procedur`l

:04:49.:04:54.

changes to try to enhance the status of Friday debates on a priv`te

:04:55.:04:59.

members bills. I give them `n undertaking in an evidence session

:05:00.:05:02.

with his committee last week that the Government would look sdriously

:05:03.:05:06.

at his committee's most recdnt report. Clearly, we would nded to

:05:07.:05:10.

consider both his recent recommendations and have collected

:05:11.:05:13.

discussions within the Government before publishing our own rdsponse.

:05:14.:05:19.

But that, we will do. Can I thank the honourable lember

:05:20.:05:23.

for his urgent question. I well remember as a new member coling here

:05:24.:05:29.

on a Friday, a debate on daxlight savings, that members took so long

:05:30.:05:35.

to talk it out, it was dark by the time we left the chamber. One of the

:05:36.:05:39.

recommendations is for the Backbench Business Committee to decidd which

:05:40.:05:43.

bills were worthy going forward Can I ask the House whether thex will be

:05:44.:05:48.

an expansion on a cross-party basis? Are currently has five on the

:05:49.:05:51.

opposition come one from thd Government and want the SNP. The

:05:52.:05:55.

smaller parties are not represented at all. Does not appear the

:05:56.:05:58.

Government would be in control of which bills would be pegged? And

:05:59.:06:02.

asked the Leader of the House to say whether he believes the terls of

:06:03.:06:05.

reference and the Backbench Business Committee will have to change? Would

:06:06.:06:09.

later the House provide extra time for these bills, I would eat up into

:06:10.:06:13.

other business of the House, which are protected, such as opposition

:06:14.:06:17.

days and backbench days? Whdn these bills are picked by the backbench

:06:18.:06:22.

committee, were they become part of backbench days? If the Government

:06:23.:06:26.

say they support a bill, rather than talk that the Mr dead last Friday,

:06:27.:06:30.

that the Government not set up a bill committee to go through the

:06:31.:06:34.

clauses and amended committde, just as wooded rather legislation? Or

:06:35.:06:38.

come clean and say they do not support it. Will the Leader of the

:06:39.:06:43.

House have to look at changhng the right and procedure of a melber to

:06:44.:06:46.

present a bill under the ten minute rule motion? And finally, the leader

:06:47.:06:51.

of the has kindly said he is going to report back to the House within

:06:52.:06:54.

two months will stop with Abbey before after Christmas?

:06:55.:07:02.

Our intention is to publish the Government's respond within the two

:07:03.:07:06.

month time frame that is long established within the convdntions

:07:07.:07:11.

of the House. We will respond in detail to the various proposals that

:07:12.:07:18.

came from the Procedure Comlittee. I'm always willing to look with an

:07:19.:07:22.

open mind on proposals, whether from the honourable lady or other members

:07:23.:07:27.

of the House on changes to our procedure is that to command

:07:28.:07:32.

significant and, ideally, cross-party support. I'm not

:07:33.:07:39.

intending this in any way as a rejection of what the honourable

:07:40.:07:46.

lady said,, but sometimes proposals that turn out to have the stpport of

:07:47.:07:52.

an order of members that fedl very strongly, but do not actually

:07:53.:07:55.

command widespread support. Just to respond to one point she made, it

:07:56.:08:02.

remains the case, as it alw`ys has been, that if the proposal of a

:08:03.:08:07.

Private Member's Bill has stpport sufficient among all parts of the

:08:08.:08:11.

House to take through those emotions or insist on a second reading

:08:12.:08:15.

debate, then the proposal of the Private Member's Bill can so do and

:08:16.:08:20.

his or her ability to do th`t would reflect a genuine surge of support

:08:21.:08:26.

for that Private Member's Bhll on the behalf of the House as ` whole.

:08:27.:08:32.

Mr Speaker, as and it had the privilege of listening to more

:08:33.:08:35.

Friday debates than probablx any other current member of the House, I

:08:36.:08:40.

shared the vehemence of my honourable friends, if not `ll the

:08:41.:08:46.

recommendations of the Procddure Committee. But had the Leaddr of the

:08:47.:08:49.

House will be able to allow perhaps a fuller debate in which thd various

:08:50.:08:54.

ideas can come forward. Bec`use we really have got to change what the

:08:55.:09:00.

president arrangements are. I am happy to discuss both further

:09:01.:09:04.

with my right honourable frhend has particular experience as a former

:09:05.:09:10.

chairman of ways and Means. I will consider the request for tile to be

:09:11.:09:15.

made available, although I would say, gently, also, there is time

:09:16.:09:19.

available in the House for ` debate that is not within the gift of the

:09:20.:09:23.

Government, but is within the get backbenchers themselves.

:09:24.:09:30.

I don't think we have actually ever witnessed such a depressing and

:09:31.:09:34.

dispiriting spectacle than what we saw on Friday, when a Government

:09:35.:09:39.

minister got to his feet to speak out a Private Member's Bill. This

:09:40.:09:44.

wasn't political knock-about, this wasn't a party political issue, this

:09:45.:09:48.

was a Private Member's Bill, designed to sensitively try and

:09:49.:09:54.

ensure generations of gay mdn were pardoned for crimes that no longer

:09:55.:09:58.

exist. Mr Speaker, the publhc couldn't hold the way we do

:09:59.:10:03.

practices in this House with more contempt. They were proved right on

:10:04.:10:08.

Friday and every single fear they have about the way we do business

:10:09.:10:13.

was correct. I support the honourable member in his attempts to

:10:14.:10:18.

address the way we address private members bills. It is the ond way we

:10:19.:10:23.

have as backbenchers to eng`ge in a legislative process, we cannot

:10:24.:10:28.

continue to do things like we did on Friday. So I appeal to the Leader of

:10:29.:10:31.

the House, look at this report, treat it seriously, bring forward

:10:32.:10:36.

solid plans summit we never, ever get the disgrace of Friday `gain

:10:37.:10:42.

ever on the floor of this House I repeat, Mr Speaker, the undertaken

:10:43.:10:48.

I have given this afternoon. The Government will indeed conshder the

:10:49.:10:52.

report from the Procedure Committee very carefully and indeed Rdpublican

:10:53.:10:56.

are respond to it. I would say to the honourable gentleman in regards

:10:57.:11:00.

to last Friday, and my honotrable friend the member for East Surrey

:11:01.:11:05.

was speaking at 2:30pm, havhng spoken for 26 minutes, and during

:11:06.:11:09.

that time having taken seven interventions, including at least

:11:10.:11:13.

two from his benches, and rdfusing four SNP request to give wax. And I

:11:14.:11:17.

would have hoped that the honourable gentleman and his

:11:18.:11:29.

party would, on reflection `fter the weekend, had been willing to welcome

:11:30.:11:32.

the fact that the Government's chosen course of moving an `mendment

:11:33.:11:34.

to a Government bill ensures the legislative change that he `nd I

:11:35.:11:37.

both want to see will come hnto effect was swiftly and with fewer,

:11:38.:11:39.

many fewer, risks that somebody guilty, or somebody convictdd of

:11:40.:11:44.

consents against a child wotld receive a pardon than we wotld if we

:11:45.:11:46.

have gone ahead with the Bill. I would like to include all members

:11:47.:11:59.

with extreme brevity, starthng now. I came into the house in 1982 and we

:12:00.:12:04.

spent a lot of time in the house in this chamber often sitting hnto the

:12:05.:12:07.

night. Fridays is actually ` good constituency days are many lembers

:12:08.:12:10.

of Parliament. Would the melbers look at having Private membdrs bills

:12:11.:12:14.

on other days of the week, or indeed even in the evenings? This hs a

:12:15.:12:21.

subject, as my right honour`ble friend knows, that has been raised

:12:22.:12:25.

many times and the views and interests of different membdrs vary

:12:26.:12:29.

a great deal on the particular issue she has addressed to us. Mr Speaker,

:12:30.:12:39.

the procedure committee are to be congratulated for putting forward

:12:40.:12:44.

what I believe, taken together, I set a good promote that proposals to

:12:45.:12:48.

go forward. Will the leader of the house, who has a reputation of being

:12:49.:12:52.

a reasonable man, acknowledge that the current procedures, as they now

:12:53.:12:57.

operate bring this house into disrepute? Can he give an

:12:58.:13:02.

undertaking that this report, I think the main body of it is only 18

:13:03.:13:07.

pages long, does provide a way forward and can we undertakd to look

:13:08.:13:10.

at it quickly and hopefully arrive at a favourable decision as quickly

:13:11.:13:14.

as possible? We will certainly consider it as quickly as wd can,

:13:15.:13:18.

but equally we want to make sure that we have given proper

:13:19.:13:23.

consideration to the various proposals that the committed has

:13:24.:13:27.

made. I do think it is important that legislation, whether it stems

:13:28.:13:32.

from government or from a Private members Bill is thoroughly

:13:33.:13:39.

scrutinised within the Housd of Commons and that the legisl`tion

:13:40.:13:44.

enjoys a clear majority of support across the house, and I think it's

:13:45.:13:49.

wrong when legislation hits the statute book when it lacks that

:13:50.:13:54.

support or scrutiny. You will remember before I was fortunate to

:13:55.:13:58.

be in government I was a regular attender on Fridays, and who knows

:13:59.:14:01.

now I'm back on the backbenches I may well become so again. It seems

:14:02.:14:07.

to me from my observations but my real problem with Fridays is that

:14:08.:14:12.

many colleagues profess support for measures but don't consider them

:14:13.:14:16.

important enough to appear hn the House of Commons when it is sitting.

:14:17.:14:19.

That is really the problem `nd members have it within their own

:14:20.:14:24.

power to turn up here and stpport measures they feel command the

:14:25.:14:29.

support of the house. My right honourable friend makes a vdry good

:14:30.:14:32.

point and I would simply relark that last Friday a closure motion was

:14:33.:14:37.

moved but only 57 members wdre here to vote in its support. I'm

:14:38.:14:41.

surprised by what sounds like complacency from the leader of the

:14:42.:14:44.

house. He knows one of the reasons that members cannot always be here

:14:45.:14:48.

is because of constituency obligations and when we know his own

:14:49.:14:51.

minister is going to be talking out of Bill, that is absolutely

:14:52.:14:58.

devaluing this place. Over ` people signed a position -- petition very

:14:59.:15:02.

recently when my NHS bill w`s talked out earlier this year so can we

:15:03.:15:06.

demonstrate greater seriousness and urgency with tackling this lassive

:15:07.:15:10.

act -- area of reputational damage to the house? I've said we would

:15:11.:15:14.

consider very seriously the proposals that the committed has

:15:15.:15:18.

made, but I think the honourable lady needs to reflect on whx her

:15:19.:15:21.

particular bill failed to gdt the support of the majority of LPs. With

:15:22.:15:28.

the leader of the house agrde with me that if people are particularly

:15:29.:15:31.

unhappy about any bill that is not passed through one of Fridax then

:15:32.:15:35.

they should make the effort to turn up to support it. If at least 1 0

:15:36.:15:39.

people turn up to support the first bill, it will go through th`t

:15:40.:15:44.

despite any opposition or attempt to block it. Does he agree with me it's

:15:45.:15:48.

not too much to expect that any bill that goes through the house has the

:15:49.:15:53.

support of a hundred MPs? I don t always agree with my honour`ble

:15:54.:15:56.

friend but on this occasion he makes a very reasonable point. Thd thing

:15:57.:16:04.

is that tens of thousands of people were watching the debate last Friday

:16:05.:16:08.

as if it really was a matter of life and death to them, because ht was

:16:09.:16:13.

about their own sense of sh`me, how society had treated them and whether

:16:14.:16:17.

they were going to have a possibility of real exoneration So

:16:18.:16:20.

for all of the fine words wd have about 100 members and the rdst of

:16:21.:16:24.

it, the truth is, last Frid`y brought the house into disrdpute. I

:16:25.:16:28.

actually have no beef with the minister. The problem is th`t the

:16:29.:16:32.

system encourages ministers to do that week after week and it is bust

:16:33.:16:39.

and it needs mending. I say again to the honourable gentleman th`t, as a

:16:40.:16:45.

result of the course that the government has chosen, the touring

:16:46.:16:49.

law will now be enacted within weeks as part of a government Bill --

:16:50.:16:56.

Turing. That is together in safeguards that anyone who should

:16:57.:16:59.

not receive a disregard or pardon will not be able to secure ht. I am

:17:00.:17:06.

here to fully support my honourable friend, the chair of the procedure

:17:07.:17:11.

committee. But the leader of the house please respond to the question

:17:12.:17:15.

he has been asked, which is does he accept that the existing

:17:16.:17:18.

arrangements bring the housd into disrepute? I believe it does. We

:17:19.:17:25.

will respond in full to the committee's report. There h`ve been

:17:26.:17:30.

many criticisms made over the years from different quarters of the

:17:31.:17:35.

Private members Bill procedtre and I will take seriously the proposals

:17:36.:17:39.

the committee has made, but we also need to make sure we have procedures

:17:40.:17:43.

make sure the legislation does reach the statute book. Criminal offences

:17:44.:17:49.

affecting the constituents, unless there is clear demonstrable support

:17:50.:17:52.

within Parliament amongst the majority of members for that

:17:53.:17:59.

legislation to be enacted. Does the leader of the house underst`nd that

:18:00.:18:01.

the people watching the unedifying carrying on in this place when

:18:02.:18:05.

Private members bills are t`lked out, they are appalled. Thex feel

:18:06.:18:10.

completely disenfranchised. Does he really think the government is

:18:11.:18:13.

acting in good faith in letting the situation continue any further? Can

:18:14.:18:19.

I just say to the honourabld lady, as I said, no complaints were made

:18:20.:18:24.

last Friday about filibustering My honourable friend for Surrex East

:18:25.:18:28.

took a very large number of interventions during the cotrse of

:18:29.:18:33.

his remarks, as is his norm`l courteous practice when spe`king

:18:34.:18:37.

from the dispatch box. And H would say that her honourable fridnd, the

:18:38.:18:40.

sponsor of the bill being ddbated last Friday, was told by thd

:18:41.:18:44.

government about a month ahdad of the second reading debate that the

:18:45.:18:49.

government would not be abld to support the bill as he currdntly had

:18:50.:18:57.

at that time envisaged it. Can I urge my right honourable frhend that

:18:58.:19:03.

when he comes to schedule the debate on the procedure committee's report

:19:04.:19:08.

he provides sufficient time to allow a full discussion of all of the

:19:09.:19:12.

aspects of the Private membdrs Bill 's procedure, because part of the

:19:13.:19:16.

problem is not everybody he was a member of the house fully

:19:17.:19:21.

understands what the procedtre is. It is a good bit of advice to all

:19:22.:19:29.

members of the house, recently arrived or more senior, to be

:19:30.:19:31.

thoroughly cognisant of procedures and to do additional homework from

:19:32.:19:37.

time to time. As we are plunged needlessly yet again this wdekend

:19:38.:19:40.

into winter darkness, what happened to the daylight savings bill? It's a

:19:41.:19:44.

good example of where the mhnister is wrong when he says of thd bill

:19:45.:19:47.

has overwhelming support it can proceed. That Bill proceeded, but

:19:48.:19:52.

the government killed it by not implementing its provisions. Will he

:19:53.:19:55.

fully accept the recommendations of the committee in order to rdstore

:19:56.:19:58.

confidence and the reputation of this house? That obviously hs a

:19:59.:20:04.

matter for other ministers `nd I shall draw his remarks to their

:20:05.:20:11.

attention, but there was, as I recall, very strong opposithon in

:20:12.:20:15.

certain parts of the United Kingdom, particularly from Scotland `nd

:20:16.:20:17.

Northern Ireland, to the daxlight saving measures he supported. I

:20:18.:20:22.

voted for the closing motion on Friday but the problem was there

:20:23.:20:25.

were not enough members herd and that is the reason that Bill did not

:20:26.:20:29.

proceed. But, sir, there ard occasions where it does get to

:20:30.:20:34.

committee and passes second reading but is blocked by no provishon of

:20:35.:20:38.

money resolution. That needs reforming and that is why wd need to

:20:39.:20:42.

have two debate on this as soon as possible because there are `reas

:20:43.:20:47.

that do need reforming. The question of money resolutions is one of those

:20:48.:20:53.

things mentioned in the report from the select committee on procedure,

:20:54.:20:56.

so it's one of the things which the government will respond in course.

:20:57.:21:02.

Instead of being a leader of the house, he seems to be hiding behind

:21:03.:21:06.

excuses about the closure motion not being supported, filibusterhng and

:21:07.:21:12.

the fact the minister spoke the 26 minutes. The minister treatdd the

:21:13.:21:17.

place with contempt and he treated the general public with contempt, so

:21:18.:21:21.

will the leader of the housd at least come out about not trdating

:21:22.:21:25.

this place with contempt by his government? I completely reject the

:21:26.:21:28.

aspersions that the honourable gentleman is casting on my

:21:29.:21:32.

honourable friend, the membdr for Surrey East, who I think is handled

:21:33.:21:36.

last Friday's business in a thoroughly reasonable and courteous

:21:37.:21:40.

fashion. He might ask himself why, if he and his colleagues were

:21:41.:21:45.

genuinely wanting to see last Friday's bill reach the statute

:21:46.:21:49.

book, the bill was only published a couple of days before the sdcond

:21:50.:21:56.

reading debate. As a veteran of both the talk out and sleep out, I have

:21:57.:22:00.

seen all sides of the Private members Bill process. With the

:22:01.:22:03.

member agree with me that while there might be merited lookhng at

:22:04.:22:07.

the committee scheduling bills that have wide support, it has to remain

:22:08.:22:13.

difficult to get on, and thd key reform is the people to show up to

:22:14.:22:16.

debate? My honourable friend makes a very telling point. Mr Speaker,

:22:17.:22:20.

isn't the reality and reason why there is a bankruptcy in confidence

:22:21.:22:25.

in the Private member systel is that the government can always khll a

:22:26.:22:32.

bill by using methods, sometimes hidden, sometimes open. We need a

:22:33.:22:35.

shaft of sunlight into the system so we can restore some confidence.

:22:36.:22:40.

Let's have a debate on it. The Convention for many years on

:22:41.:22:44.

successive governments is that the government makes it view pl`in

:22:45.:22:49.

during the course of a second reading debate, and I return to the

:22:50.:22:53.

point that a Private members Bill that enjoys genuine majoritx support

:22:54.:22:57.

within the house has a decent chance of success. This Friday I whll have

:22:58.:23:06.

the option to present my bill which has all-party support, has been

:23:07.:23:08.

properly scrutinised before it gets to this place, but does my right

:23:09.:23:13.

honourable friend not agree that we should not have a lottery to get

:23:14.:23:16.

serious legislation on the statute books, and that we can argud the

:23:17.:23:21.

case to a committee before we get to that stage. In the light of the

:23:22.:23:27.

committee's recommendations I would be genuinely interested to

:23:28.:23:30.

understand whether what my honourable friend has just said

:23:31.:23:33.

represents the view of the house as a whole, or whether actuallx, there

:23:34.:23:39.

are more members who feel they might lose out by the abolition of the

:23:40.:23:45.

lottery, which many members on the backbenches prize as a great annual

:23:46.:23:51.

occasion. When I was brieflx deputy leader of the house I had

:23:52.:23:54.

responsibility for Private lember 's bills and I found that, in practice,

:23:55.:23:58.

it wasn't ministers in other departments who were opposed to

:23:59.:24:01.

them, it was officials in the Cabinet Office who did not want to

:24:02.:24:05.

devote the time to the briefing The leader of the house has the

:24:06.:24:10.

opportunity to be a reforming leader of the house, to improve on the

:24:11.:24:13.

performance of his recent stccesses. Will he take it? We shall consider

:24:14.:24:20.

all the recommendations of the committee and we shall respond

:24:21.:24:25.

within the time that the hotse normally expects. As someond who in

:24:26.:24:29.

the last Parliament have thd privilege of bringing a Private

:24:30.:24:32.

members Bill through this place I hope the leader of the housd will

:24:33.:24:35.

give some serious consideration to reform. When I listen to coverage of

:24:36.:24:43.

proceedings on Friday night, my toes curled with embarrassment to the

:24:44.:24:48.

shabby treatment of the Turhng bill. As someone who has also man`ged to

:24:49.:24:53.

get a bill onto the statute book, I understand the sense of pride might

:24:54.:24:59.

friend feels, but I would rditerate that I think the government and

:25:00.:25:01.

Minister of Justice in parthcular have nothing to apologise for about

:25:02.:25:05.

the way in which Friday's btsiness was handled, and the fact wd now

:25:06.:25:11.

have an amendment tabled in the name of the Liberal Democrat member of

:25:12.:25:14.

the House of Lords means th`t the Turing bill will be on the statute

:25:15.:25:18.

book, more assuredly and more quickly than would have been the

:25:19.:25:21.

case if we had resorted to the Private members route. In too many

:25:22.:25:27.

places the standing orders of this has given power to the government at

:25:28.:25:31.

the expense of Parliament. Will the leader of the house admit that he

:25:32.:25:34.

will not make changes to Prhvate members bills because he dods not

:25:35.:25:36.

want the government to cede any power? I would actually point out to

:25:37.:25:42.

the honourable lady that through such measures as the creation of the

:25:43.:25:47.

backbench business committed and the provision for the direct eldction of

:25:48.:25:53.

the select committee chairs, we now have a parliament, a legisl`ture,

:25:54.:25:58.

that is more powerful, less deferential and more outspoken than

:25:59.:26:01.

at any time during my 24 ye`rs of service here.

:26:02.:26:06.

Good thing, too! There are 42 Fridays in any given year, `nd all

:26:07.:26:17.

members can attend 13 private member's bill is an star had 39

:26:18.:26:21.

constituency Fridays. And ghven a talking about creating new laws of

:26:22.:26:28.

the land and are 360 members, asking some to turn up to support ` bill is

:26:29.:26:33.

not too much to ask. I agree completely.

:26:34.:26:38.

A constituent wrote to me after last Friday's filibustering, how are not

:26:39.:26:42.

in this happen in this day `nd age? Can the Leader of the House listen

:26:43.:26:47.

to this report are respond positively, one that is somdthing to

:26:48.:26:51.

improve the repetition of this has? I don't know if the honourable

:26:52.:26:54.

gentleman was here I took p`rt in the motion was elsewhere at the

:26:55.:27:01.

time, anyone who read in Hansard my honourable friend the Minister's

:27:02.:27:06.

speech on Friday or his subsequent article in pink News with bd able to

:27:07.:27:09.

understand and sympathise whth the argument that he posed, and would

:27:10.:27:12.

welcome the legislation the Government is bringing forw`rd an

:27:13.:27:17.

reflect to the cheering bill. Is not the case that the

:27:18.:27:23.

Government's response is because my honourable friend won a raffle and

:27:24.:27:28.

got to take four at his mothon. Is it not the case that the Procedure

:27:29.:27:32.

Committee's report brings us closer to the Scottish Parliament system,

:27:33.:27:35.

where Bill demonstrating cross-party support can make progress, or is

:27:36.:27:41.

that not the best way to proceed? The reason we are bringing forward

:27:42.:27:45.

this legislation is because it was a Conservative manifesto commhtment.

:27:46.:27:51.

Those of us any SNP benches regard Friday as an extremely important

:27:52.:27:56.

opportunity for us to work hn our constituencies. It is there for not

:27:57.:28:03.

only frustrating for us, but also disrespectful to our constituents

:28:04.:28:05.

when private member's bill hs I talked out. Will the Governlent look

:28:06.:28:09.

seriously at the recommendations and this report, and in particular,

:28:10.:28:13.

those which tackle the issud of filibustering?

:28:14.:28:19.

No complaint was made about a filibustering during the debate on

:28:20.:28:23.

Friday. Members on all sides took part in that debate, and my

:28:24.:28:26.

honourable friend the Minister spoke for a perfectly reasonable length of

:28:27.:28:32.

time, and put seven different interventions during the cotrse of

:28:33.:28:36.

this beach. I think the honourable lady or to reflect now and welcome

:28:37.:28:39.

what the Government has dond, which is provide a better, sure course of

:28:40.:28:43.

action than the one her party has been proposing.

:28:44.:28:47.

Can I correct the Leader of the House. In my speech, I explhcitly

:28:48.:28:52.

said as the Bill was talked out by the Government should have been one

:28:53.:28:56.

of the brightest days of thd Parliament has instead becole one of

:28:57.:28:59.

the darkest. Then I invite the Minister to withdraw that no

:29:00.:29:05.

complaints were -- withdraw the suggestion that combines were

:29:06.:29:10.

majoring the debate. Then I asked asking to acknowledge that people

:29:11.:29:14.

were pleading with the Minister to stop filibustering. Given the

:29:15.:29:18.

Minister is commenced that xou cannot get 100 people in support a

:29:19.:29:21.

bill than the Bill does not deserve to go through, can the leaddr of the

:29:22.:29:25.

Stella us, how many people were in this chamber last night when the

:29:26.:29:31.

employment and NHS bill was given a second reading?

:29:32.:29:33.

That has nothing to do with Procedure Committee reports, and I'm

:29:34.:29:37.

shortcoming of the topic was entirely inadvertent on the part of

:29:38.:29:41.

the honourable gentleman, and, never requires no reply from the Leader of

:29:42.:29:45.

the House. We will respond to the report in due

:29:46.:29:51.

course. The points made on Fridays that the Bill was flawed in that it

:29:52.:29:55.

would have made it possible for people to receive a blanket pardon

:29:56.:29:58.

who are living today and have been properly convicted of offences

:29:59.:30:04.

against minors or offences hnvolving nonconsensual sex. That is why the

:30:05.:30:09.

Government consistently takd the view that the disregard procedure

:30:10.:30:13.

needed to be followed, and why we had taken swift action to provide

:30:14.:30:18.

for such a scheme through Government legislation to give effect to the

:30:19.:30:24.

Turing Bill. Statement, the Secretary of State

:30:25.:30:27.

for Transport. Secretary Chris Grayling.

:30:28.:30:31.

Mr Speaker, with your permission, I would like to make a statemdnt about

:30:32.:30:37.

airport policy. Last year, the independent airport commisshon

:30:38.:30:40.

delivered its final report tnder the chairman Chip of Sir Howard Davies.

:30:41.:30:46.

I would like to pay tribute to the quality and professionalism of their

:30:47.:30:51.

work. Mr Speaker, the commission concluded that we needed more

:30:52.:30:56.

capacity in the South East. It put forward three viable options for

:30:57.:31:01.

expansion. It unanimously agreed that the proposed northwest runway

:31:02.:31:04.

at Heathrow presented the strongest case. In December, my predecessor

:31:05.:31:10.

came to the House to announce the Government had accepted the need for

:31:11.:31:16.

further capacity, but furthdr work was required before making `

:31:17.:31:20.

decision on the location of that runway. That work is now colplete.

:31:21.:31:25.

Mr Speaker, this is a momentous step for our country. The decisions taken

:31:26.:31:29.

earlier today, which I will outline in a moment, are long overdte, and

:31:30.:31:33.

will serve our country for generations to come. I know that

:31:34.:31:38.

some as of this House have strong convictions on this issue. @nd that

:31:39.:31:43.

everyone in this House will understand the significance of this

:31:44.:31:47.

announcement. It significance for jobs, for an economy which works

:31:48.:31:52.

everyone, for passengers, for the global importance of our cotntry,

:31:53.:31:56.

for the environment and people affected by expansion. And `lso Mrs

:31:57.:32:01.

Baker, to send a clear mess`ge today that this country is open for

:32:02.:32:07.

business. It's not an easy hssue, and it's not a simple process. I

:32:08.:32:12.

make no apologies for the shte we've taking time to get it right. Today

:32:13.:32:17.

also shows that this is a Government unafraid to take difficult decisions

:32:18.:32:22.

and get on with the job. Before I outline the decision the Government

:32:23.:32:26.

has reached, I want explain how today's announcement fits whthin the

:32:27.:32:29.

planning process and the opportunities that members of this

:32:30.:32:33.

has will have to contribute. In the New Year, we will bring forward a

:32:34.:32:37.

draft policy statement, which includes details of the new scheme.

:32:38.:32:42.

As required under legislation, this will be subject to a file and

:32:43.:32:46.

extensive public consultation, followed by a period of

:32:47.:32:51.

parliamentary scrutiny. Onlx once members have voted on the fhnal

:32:52.:32:55.

policy statement and it has been decimated, will be able to be able

:32:56.:32:59.

to bring forward a detailed planning application. Mr Speaker, strong

:33:00.:33:03.

connections with global partners and the ability to trade with ndw and

:33:04.:33:09.

growing markets are vital to securing Britain's place within the

:33:10.:33:16.

world. Britain currently has the greatest aviation network in the

:33:17.:33:19.

world, second only to the US and China. We have the second l`rgest

:33:20.:33:26.

aerospace Manufacturing sector, generating exports ?26 billhon. Our

:33:27.:33:32.

aviation sector support I w`s 1 million jobs and sports ?7 billion

:33:33.:33:36.

in research and development. Last year, UK airports handed ovdr 2 0

:33:37.:33:43.

million passengers, up by% on 2 14, as well as handling 2.3 million

:33:44.:33:53.

tonnes of freight. Heathrow is the easiest to-runway airport in the

:33:54.:33:57.

world, and Gatwick the busidst single-runway airport. Therd will be

:33:58.:34:03.

smaller capacity taken up at Wootton soon afterwards. If we do nothing,

:34:04.:34:08.

the cost our nation is signhficant. Amounting to more than ?20 billion

:34:09.:34:15.

in delays, flights and passdngers having to take flights as wdll. The

:34:16.:34:20.

impact on our economy around the region of ?45 billion. That is why

:34:21.:34:23.

the decision we have reached today is so important to the future of our

:34:24.:34:28.

country. Rogers to tackle the immediate shortage of airport

:34:29.:34:32.

capacity, but to set a country on the cause to even greater prosperity

:34:33.:34:37.

for future generations. I'vd spent a considerable amount of time this

:34:38.:34:41.

summer visiting different schemes, talking to their promoters,

:34:42.:34:45.

assessing their strengths and weaknesses. I have been gentinely

:34:46.:34:48.

impressed by the quality and choice available to us. And the detailed

:34:49.:34:53.

work that has been put into the street plans. Any one of thdm would

:34:54.:35:00.

bring benefit to this country. But the work that the airport commission

:35:01.:35:03.

did made a clear and unanimous declaration to the Government that

:35:04.:35:07.

we should accept the propos`l to build a new northwest runwax at

:35:08.:35:11.

Heathrow, subject to a pack`ge of measures to make expansion lore

:35:12.:35:15.

acceptable to the airport's local community. Since the public`tion of

:35:16.:35:19.

that recommendation, my dep`rtment has studied in detail both hts

:35:20.:35:25.

reports, but also new and supplementary information that has

:35:26.:35:27.

urged about different options since then. The commission's report and

:35:28.:35:32.

that subsequent information formed the basis of a discussion which took

:35:33.:35:36.

place this morning at the C`binet subcommittee. As a result of that

:35:37.:35:41.

discussion, Mr Speaker, the Government has decided to accept

:35:42.:35:45.

that recommendation. We belheve that the expansion of Heathrow Ahrport

:35:46.:35:49.

and the northwest runway scheme in combination with a signific`nt

:35:50.:35:52.

package of supporting measures on this scale recommended by the

:35:53.:35:56.

airport commission offers the greatest level of benefit to

:35:57.:36:01.

passengers, business and help us deliver the greatest and broadest

:36:02.:36:05.

possible benefit to the whole United Kingdom. Mr Speaker, it delhvers the

:36:06.:36:10.

greatest economic and stratdgic benefits to our economy. It

:36:11.:36:13.

strengthens connectivity for passengers right across the United

:36:14.:36:18.

Kingdom. It offers a major boost to freight operators. It can bd

:36:19.:36:22.

delivered within carbon and air quality limits. Crucially, ht comes

:36:23.:36:27.

with world leading measures to mitigate those impacts on those

:36:28.:36:32.

living nearby. Mr Speaker, hn addition to benefits identified by

:36:33.:36:36.

the commission, the scheme would deliver the collectivity and have

:36:37.:36:42.

capacity the UK needs take compete with European and Middle Eastern

:36:43.:36:51.

hubs. Access to Heathrow is more resilient, and it is better placed

:36:52.:36:56.

as a national freight hub. Alternately, it brings the largest

:36:57.:36:59.

benefits to passengers and the wider economy of up to ?61 billion over 60

:37:00.:37:06.

years. But we're not alone hn this view, Mr Speaker. UK airlinds and

:37:07.:37:10.

businesses are also clear that Heathrow is the right place to

:37:11.:37:15.

expand. Mr Speaker, before continuing, I would like to pay

:37:16.:37:18.

genuine tribute to the promoters of the other two schemes considered by

:37:19.:37:22.

the subcommittee. As I said earlier, both presented well-developdd and

:37:23.:37:28.

compelling cases for new capacity. In particular, I would like to place

:37:29.:37:32.

on record that Gatwick, despite not being selected today, remains a key

:37:33.:37:36.

part of our national transport picture, and will continue to be so

:37:37.:37:41.

in the future. I want to be very clear, expansion will not bd at any

:37:42.:37:46.

cost to local people, to passengers or two industry. We have to make

:37:47.:37:53.

three assurances. Lastly, to make Heathrow a better neighbour. We must

:37:54.:37:58.

tackle air quality and noisd and meet our obligations on carbon both

:37:59.:38:02.

during and after construction. At quality is a significant national

:38:03.:38:05.

issue, and international issue, which this Government takes

:38:06.:38:11.

immensely seriously. This is why we undertook further work which

:38:12.:38:15.

confirms the commission's original conclusion on at quality, that a new

:38:16.:38:19.

runway on Heathrow is delivdrable within air quality limits. We are

:38:20.:38:23.

committed to making sure thhs remains the case. The airport has

:38:24.:38:30.

already committed to measurds to mitigate air quality impacts. This

:38:31.:38:36.

Government will only consent expansion if we are satisfidd the

:38:37.:38:40.

runway will not impact on UK compliance with its air quality

:38:41.:38:44.

obligations. The broader issue of air quality is won this Govdrnment

:38:45.:38:49.

takes very seriously indeed. And the updated evidence base shows very

:38:50.:38:51.

clearly that the biggest ch`llenge we face is not the expansion of an

:38:52.:38:57.

airport, but the level of elissions built up in urban areas mord

:38:58.:39:02.

generally. That is the very reason for our national air qualitx plan. I

:39:03.:39:07.

should also say to the Housd today, it is part of our ongoing work in

:39:08.:39:11.

air quality, my department, along with Defra and the Treasury, Adam

:39:12.:39:16.

Bogdan a joint project to identify further ways we can tackle this

:39:17.:39:21.

issue. By the time a new barn Way opens, we intend to have made

:39:22.:39:26.

substantial new progress indeed in tackling these air quality

:39:27.:39:29.

challenges across our nation as a whole. On the issue of noisd, no

:39:30.:39:37.

airport is able to be silent. Technology, though, is making

:39:38.:39:41.

aircraft quieter, the newer generation of aircraft coming into

:39:42.:39:45.

service have a noise footprhnt typically better present sm`ller on

:39:46.:39:48.

departure than they once thdy're replacing. And at least 30% smaller

:39:49.:39:55.

on arrival. But although pl`nes are getting quieter, they still have an

:39:56.:40:00.

impact. That is why will expect a 6.5 hour ban on overnight plan is to

:40:01.:40:05.

be a requirement for development consent. This will also see the

:40:06.:40:10.

airport helped to clear and legally enforceable noise performance

:40:11.:40:14.

target. So even with expanshon, fewer people will be affectdd by

:40:15.:40:20.

aircraft noise than today. We also recognise the importance of

:40:21.:40:23.

providing local residents whth a clear, predictable timetabld of

:40:24.:40:27.

respite from aircraft noise. This is something local communities value

:40:28.:40:31.

today, and we will insure this continues once a runway is built. Mr

:40:32.:40:36.

Speaker, I recognise this ddcision will have a big impact on pdople who

:40:37.:40:40.

live close to Heathrow. This is why we have insisted on a wild class

:40:41.:40:45.

package of supporting measures. Those communities who are affected

:40:46.:40:49.

by the decision will be supported by up to ?2.6 billion towards

:40:50.:40:54.

compensation, noise insulathon for homes and schools, improvemdnts to

:40:55.:40:57.

public facilities and other measures. But those people whose

:40:58.:41:01.

homes need to be bought to lake way for the new runway, Heathrow is

:41:02.:41:05.

planning to pay 25% above the full market value of the homes, `nd cover

:41:06.:41:10.

all costs including stamp dtty, moving and legal fees. That is, Mr

:41:11.:41:15.

Seager, is on offer at seven significantly above the statuary

:41:16.:41:19.

requirements. I'll cement a junior to compensation fund and local

:41:20.:41:24.

authorities will benefit from a retention of business rates.

:41:25.:41:29.

The second assurance I want to give his own cost for passengers. A new

:41:30.:41:35.

runway will bring in new capacity to meet demand and bring in levels of

:41:36.:41:40.

compensation, lowering fares relative to no expansion evdn after

:41:41.:41:44.

taking into account the cost of construction. This is an investment

:41:45.:41:47.

in the future of the countrx and will deliver major economic and

:41:48.:41:51.

strategic benefits to the UK but it must be delivered without hhtting

:41:52.:41:54.

passengers in the pocket. The airports commission was cle`r this

:41:55.:41:59.

was achievable. As are the Civil Aviation Authority. It's re`lly

:42:00.:42:04.

important to send this mess`ge. Not expansion at any cost, but the right

:42:05.:42:08.

scheme at the right price, `nd I expect the industry to work together

:42:09.:42:11.

to drive down costs for the benefit of passengers. As a regulator, the

:42:12.:42:17.

Civil Aviation Authority will have a vital part to play in achieving this

:42:18.:42:20.

and ensuring that new capachty fosters competition. Their `im

:42:21.:42:25.

should be to deliver a plan for expansion that keeps landing charges

:42:26.:42:29.

close to current levels. I have full confidence in their ability to do

:42:30.:42:34.

so. The third assurance I w`nt to set out is around how the expanded

:42:35.:42:37.

airport will benefit the whole of the UK. Not just by creating jobs

:42:38.:42:45.

across the airport's UK widd supply chain but by giving even more of the

:42:46.:42:50.

UK access to important international markets by strengthening exhsting

:42:51.:42:54.

domestic links and by developing new connections to regions not currently

:42:55.:42:58.

serve. The airport expects to add six more domestic routes across the

:42:59.:43:03.

UK by 2030 bringing the tot`l up to 14. Strengthening links to dxisting

:43:04.:43:09.

regions and nations such as Ireland, Scotland and the North of England

:43:10.:43:13.

and new regions like the sotth-west. I am determined that Heathrow

:43:14.:43:16.

Airport will meet these pledges and that the government will will hold

:43:17.:43:23.

the airport to account on this and furthermore the government will take

:43:24.:43:28.

all necessary steps including where a proposal -- available to ring

:43:29.:43:34.

fencing domestic routes through public service obligations to ensure

:43:35.:43:37.

enhanced connectivity within the whole of the United Kingdom. Mr

:43:38.:43:42.

Speaker, it's really import`nt to say today that this is a decision in

:43:43.:43:46.

the national interest, not just about the south-east of England So

:43:47.:43:53.

a new runway will strength `ll the aviation sector across the nation

:43:54.:43:56.

but we need to do even more. Airspace is out of date and

:43:57.:44:02.

modernising it will boost the sector and further reduce noise and carbon

:44:03.:44:05.

emissions. We will soon bring forward proposals to give

:44:06.:44:10.

improvements to airspace and how to manage noise, including ways in

:44:11.:44:14.

which affected communities `re engaged. Also, Mr Speaker, where

:44:15.:44:18.

there is a role for a new independent aviation noise body

:44:19.:44:21.

such as recommended by the commission. Finally, let me turn to

:44:22.:44:26.

what happens next. There have been suggestions in the media recently

:44:27.:44:29.

that the process has been slowed down or somehow delayed. In fact, Mr

:44:30.:44:34.

Speaker, the opposite is not the case. Members will remember the saga

:44:35.:44:42.

of the planning process behhnd a terminal five which took ye`rs to

:44:43.:44:46.

resolve. Following that, thd national policy statement process

:44:47.:44:50.

was designed by the last Labour government through the 2008 planning

:44:51.:44:56.

act and it improved in the 2010 local is a Mac to speed up lajor

:44:57.:44:59.

projects but in an open and fair manner. We believe there is a need

:45:00.:45:06.

for new runway capacity along with supporting evidence and we will

:45:07.:45:11.

fulfil legal obligations to allow members the opportunity to vote

:45:12.:45:14.

before it becomes national policy. That is what the law requirds. What

:45:15.:45:18.

this means is that Heathrow will be able to bring forward a planning

:45:19.:45:22.

application, safe in the knowledge that the high-level arguments have

:45:23.:45:27.

been settled and not reopendd. Today the government has reached ` view on

:45:28.:45:31.

its preferred scheme and thd National Odyssey statement published

:45:32.:45:34.

in the New Year will set out in more detail why we believe it is the

:45:35.:45:37.

right one for the United Kingdom. It will set out in more detail those

:45:38.:45:41.

conditions we wish to place on development including the stpporting

:45:42.:45:45.

measured outlined earlier. We want to make sure we have considdred all

:45:46.:45:48.

the evidence and heard the voices of those who might be affected. And of

:45:49.:45:52.

course, Mr Speaker, those that will benefit as well. That consultation

:45:53.:45:57.

will start in the New Year `nd I can announce today that I've appointed

:45:58.:46:01.

Sir Jeremy Sullivan, the former senior President of tribunal is to

:46:02.:46:04.

oversee the consultation process. This is an independent role and Sir

:46:05.:46:09.

Jeremy will be responsible for holding government to account and to

:46:10.:46:14.

ensure best practice is uphdld. The issue of runway capacity in the

:46:15.:46:17.

south-east has challenged stccessive administrations for decades. There

:46:18.:46:22.

are strong feelings both for and against a third runway at Hdathrow.

:46:23.:46:27.

This is not, Mr Speaker the scheme that was previously promoted in

:46:28.:46:31.

2009. It does much more to litigate environmental impact and is more to

:46:32.:46:37.

compensate communities and does more to distribute benefits across the

:46:38.:46:40.

nation. This is an issue th`t is of vital national interest and touches

:46:41.:46:46.

every part of the United Kingdom. It is vital to the economic prosperity

:46:47.:46:50.

and global status of the nation Mr Speaker, I commend this statement to

:46:51.:46:58.

the house. Mr Andy McDonald. Thank you, Mr Speaker, while I wotld like

:46:59.:47:01.

to thank the Secretary of State for giving me an advanced side of his

:47:02.:47:05.

statement, we cannot pass whthout comment that this decision has been

:47:06.:47:09.

widely leaked throughout thd media over the last several hours in

:47:10.:47:12.

advance of being sent to me and being announced at the housd and it

:47:13.:47:15.

is simply unacceptable for such a decision to be announced in this

:47:16.:47:19.

manner and totally disrespectful to members and the house. Be that as it

:47:20.:47:26.

may, aviation is crucial to the nation's economy and our future is

:47:27.:47:30.

an outward looking trading nation and is never more so given the vote

:47:31.:47:34.

to leave the European Union, so we welcome the fact that the ddcision

:47:35.:47:36.

on the preferred location h`s now been made and I hope we can put the

:47:37.:47:42.

years of procrastination and this -- delay behind us. But despitd the

:47:43.:47:47.

Secretary of State's proclalation that the work is now complete, the

:47:48.:47:51.

announcement today is not the end of the process, it is merely the start.

:47:52.:47:56.

And it beggars belief that ht has taken ministers over a year since

:47:57.:47:59.

the publication of the Davis report to make that start. Just wh`t have

:48:00.:48:04.

they been doing for all of those months apart from worrying `bout

:48:05.:48:08.

splits in the Cabinet and the Foreign Secretary throwing himself

:48:09.:48:11.

in front of the ball Govers and former mayoral candidates triggering

:48:12.:48:16.

by-elections. There is no justification for dithering on the

:48:17.:48:20.

scale and he has failed to reconcile the short timescale to get to the

:48:21.:48:24.

National policy statement as per the timetable set out by the tr`nsport

:48:25.:48:28.

select committee but we cannot bring back the time that ministers have

:48:29.:48:32.

already wasted, so over the coming months it's vital there is proper

:48:33.:48:35.

engagement and full and fair consultation with all of thd

:48:36.:48:38.

interested parties so we can secure an outcome that stands the test of

:48:39.:48:42.

time. It's essential that there be proper Renzo scrutiny and L`bour has

:48:43.:48:49.

said consistently that support for any decision will be condithonal,

:48:50.:48:55.

firstly on additional capachty being delivered, and that the clilate

:48:56.:48:58.

change is obligations are mdt, and thirdly that local noise and

:48:59.:49:02.

environmental impacts are m`naged and minimised and fourthly that the

:49:03.:49:06.

benefits are not confined to London in the south-east. Labour ftlly

:49:07.:49:09.

recognises the need for runway expansion in the south-east of

:49:10.:49:12.

England. But following the announcement today could be a decade

:49:13.:49:16.

before an additional runway is operational. But capacity challenges

:49:17.:49:21.

are here and now. We have hdard nothing in the Secretary of State's

:49:22.:49:24.

statement about how the govdrnment intends to tackle the immedhate

:49:25.:49:28.

shortage that bought capacity so I'd like to hear from the secretary of

:49:29.:49:33.

state as to what his plans `re to utilise the existing capacity in the

:49:34.:49:37.

south-east, Stansted and Luton and indeed there is no mention of

:49:38.:49:43.

greater utilisation of the international gateways, and so what

:49:44.:49:48.

message does it send to Stansted, the East Midlands or the government

:49:49.:49:52.

commitment to the so-called Northern Powerhouse all the Midlands engine?

:49:53.:49:56.

Surface accents to the gateways around the UK need improving but

:49:57.:49:58.

it's unclear what action government is taking, and that is why Labour

:49:59.:50:05.

are calling for the new nathonal Infrastructure Commission to examine

:50:06.:50:07.

road and rail needs of airports outside the south-east. I urge the

:50:08.:50:13.

secretary of state to support the proposal and Labour's call to

:50:14.:50:17.

upgrade the West Anglia lind in order to improve rail services to

:50:18.:50:21.

Stansted and to support better connectivity to Luton airport. The

:50:22.:50:25.

government has to ensure th`t we do not fall short of legal clilate

:50:26.:50:30.

change obligations. We have but one planet and it's essential that the

:50:31.:50:34.

UK plays a leading role in dnsuring that the agreed reductions hn

:50:35.:50:41.

emissions are met. Sustainable aviation believes that they could

:50:42.:50:44.

reduce carbon dioxide emisshons by 24% by 2050 through the deployment

:50:45.:50:51.

of alternative fuels. Other countries have made considerable

:50:52.:50:53.

progress but sadly the lack of commitment from our governmdnt cause

:50:54.:50:57.

the collapse of British airways green sky project, so can wd get

:50:58.:51:00.

further from the government as to what steps will be taken to meet

:51:01.:51:04.

climate change targets, particularly in respect of developing sustainable

:51:05.:51:08.

fuel and in progressing the consultation on including aviation

:51:09.:51:14.

in the renewable transport fuels obligation. After the Davis

:51:15.:51:17.

commission the government announced they wanted to look further at

:51:18.:51:21.

environmental matters and in particular air quality. As revealed

:51:22.:51:24.

in the Guardian newspaper l`st week, David Cameron's former policy

:51:25.:51:28.

adviser warned the Prime Minister a year ago that he was exposed on

:51:29.:51:31.

Heathrow because the governlent did not have an answer on the ilpact on

:51:32.:51:36.

air quality. Indeed, the nedd for further work on a quality w`s the

:51:37.:51:40.

reason provided for the del`y but there was not a single reference in

:51:41.:51:44.

the Secretary of State's st`tement that explained what work had been

:51:45.:51:49.

completed or how it had changed his position and I hope he will publish

:51:50.:51:52.

that. I hope he publishes the additional work the governmdnt has

:51:53.:51:57.

done as he has told the sea has done so there can be proper scrutiny to

:51:58.:51:59.

be undertaken both inside and outside the house. Mr Speakdr, it's

:52:00.:52:08.

essential that the unaccept`ble levels are reduced as the dhrect

:52:09.:52:13.

impact on health and well-bding of tens of thousands of citizens cannot

:52:14.:52:17.

be ignored or tolerated. Direct measures are needed to lower

:52:18.:52:22.

emissions across the nations, but especially in areas of high emission

:52:23.:52:25.

concentration and I urge thd Minister to be unrelenting hn trying

:52:26.:52:31.

to improve air quality. The commission also recommended the

:52:32.:52:34.

establishment of an independent noise authority so can the secretary

:52:35.:52:37.

of state please advise the commitments and intentions

:52:38.:52:42.

immediately in that respect? The air traffic management infrastrtcture is

:52:43.:52:45.

ancient and modernisation whll secure dividends in terms of modest

:52:46.:52:48.

carbon emissions but considdrable mitigations in terms of noise and

:52:49.:52:53.

air quality. And the Secret`ry of State in former house what steps he

:52:54.:52:57.

is taking to ensure that modernisation as so urgentlx needed

:52:58.:52:59.

is prioritised and progressdd. Finally, the fourth test th`t

:53:00.:53:04.

expansion is not confined to London and the south-east. It is essential

:53:05.:53:11.

that landing slots are expanding links for the regions are extended

:53:12.:53:16.

long-term and any assurances that can be given would be most welcome.

:53:17.:53:20.

Can he also ensure the housd that the entire UK will be afforded

:53:21.:53:24.

proper opportunity to engagd in the construction and perhaps sole of the

:53:25.:53:28.

HS2 protocols can be adopted. You never know, we might be using UK

:53:29.:53:34.

steel. In conclusion, Mr Spdaker, the location of an addition`l runway

:53:35.:53:40.

cannot be the sum total of `viation strategy and I urge the Minhster to

:53:41.:53:43.

press ahead with a full range of measures which are necessarx to

:53:44.:53:48.

sustain our successful aviation industry and we have to enstre that

:53:49.:53:51.

the best interests of all of the UK are served and legitimate concerns

:53:52.:53:58.

raised will continue to be raised and will be fully addressed and we

:53:59.:54:01.

can do all we can to protect our precious planet for the gendrations

:54:02.:54:10.

to come. Mr Speaker, can I start with the issue of the early

:54:11.:54:14.

announcement. You know that there are serious issues in this house and

:54:15.:54:18.

you will also be aware that it is highly price sensitive and through

:54:19.:54:21.

the process and when the airports commission published its report they

:54:22.:54:25.

were launched in a way that was consistent with the market

:54:26.:54:28.

announcement launched at thd start of the morning and that is the

:54:29.:54:31.

approach we take with this. I've come to the house at the earliest

:54:32.:54:35.

opportunity and I will take questions that members have. The

:54:36.:54:38.

honourable gentleman asked le what I'd been doing for the past year,

:54:39.:54:42.

and it's precisely what he just asked about, working on the air

:54:43.:54:47.

quality issue. We will todax be publishing additional materhal so

:54:48.:54:50.

that members across the house will be able to see that the work we have

:54:51.:54:57.

done on the route we are taking to reach the conclusion and he would

:54:58.:55:00.

expect us, given the import`nce of the issue of air quality to make

:55:01.:55:04.

sure we have done the addithonal work to satisfy ourselves that this

:55:05.:55:08.

can be done in line with wh`t we all accept the necessary priorities we

:55:09.:55:11.

have two reduce the levels of emissions. He talks about what will

:55:12.:55:16.

happen in the coming months, and there will be a full and proper

:55:17.:55:19.

consultation and it is set out clearly in statute, and despite the

:55:20.:55:22.

murmurings on the benches opposite it is set out in the statutd that

:55:23.:55:27.

they rightly passed to improve the process for nationally going ahead

:55:28.:55:30.

of projects of these kinds. That is the process we will follow `nd we

:55:31.:55:35.

will do it in the tiniest w`y we can but we cannot short-change processes

:55:36.:55:39.

set out in primary legislathon. In terms of capacity challenges, there

:55:40.:55:44.

is nothing to stop new routds being set up tomorrow. We have capacity at

:55:45.:55:49.

Stansted and there are new routes coming into Heath Row and G`twick in

:55:50.:55:53.

the past two months. We are not preventing the airports arotnd

:55:54.:55:57.

London that still have capacity You talk about not doing anything, but

:55:58.:56:00.

with respect the other side don t seem to understand it's the airports

:56:01.:56:04.

themselves to go out and sell opportunities around the world and

:56:05.:56:08.

bring new routes. The leadership of those airports is sell Brit`in as a

:56:09.:56:11.

great destination to fly to do business in.

:56:12.:56:16.

With respect to service accdss, there exist issues to address around

:56:17.:56:22.

this new scheme. I would relind the honourable gentleman that wd are

:56:23.:56:26.

close to completion of Crossrail, which will make a major difference

:56:27.:56:30.

to collectivity to Heathrow. We will start improvements to the M25,

:56:31.:56:34.

between Heathrow and Gatwick. The new Thameslink route is, dud to open

:56:35.:56:39.

in a few weeks' time, will hmprove access to it in airport. Thdre are

:56:40.:56:46.

things happening. On the subject of climate change, this is an hmportant

:56:47.:56:50.

issue which we take seriously. I was elated with the agreement rdached on

:56:51.:56:55.

Montreal recently that paves the way forward for the aviation industry.

:56:56.:57:02.

That is a significant step forward. It remains a challenge that we will

:57:03.:57:05.

monitor carefully, but it is also the case that the airport commission

:57:06.:57:09.

said clearly that this expansion could take place and we could meet

:57:10.:57:13.

our objectives, and that is what we will do. He mentioned sustahnable

:57:14.:57:19.

fuels. Virgin in this country are working on sustainable fuels, the

:57:20.:57:22.

technology will improve as xears go by. On the air quality issud, what

:57:23.:57:28.

are we doing? I agree with him, when he says it is a bigger issud for our

:57:29.:57:34.

country. It affects many of our urban areas. It requires a broad

:57:35.:57:38.

ranging response that deals with the issue through clean air zonds, as

:57:39.:57:42.

set out in our national air quality strategy, and other measures that

:57:43.:57:46.

we're working on that will go beyond that strategy and continue the

:57:47.:57:49.

process of improvement over the coming decade. I said and mx remarks

:57:50.:57:54.

I will be consulting with the noise authority, and also bringing forward

:57:55.:57:58.

plans for Essbase modernisation The other points, in terms orighnal

:57:59.:58:07.

collectivity, I will extend my commitment to members from the

:58:08.:58:10.

regions of the UK that we are clear this expansion must include binding

:58:11.:58:14.

provision of a link to thosd parts of the country. This must bd of

:58:15.:58:17.

benefit to the entire United Kingdom, and it will be. Last point,

:58:18.:58:23.

Heathrow Airport is committdd that this project will be built with UK

:58:24.:58:30.

steel. Will my right honourable frhend

:58:31.:58:35.

acknowledge that, in light of this very courageous decision he has

:58:36.:58:38.

announced to the House todax, that in the next ten years, before an

:58:39.:58:44.

extra runway at Heathrow is available, great pressure whll

:58:45.:58:48.

descend upon Stansted, to which he has referred. Will he understand

:58:49.:58:52.

that my constituents will expect to see the same level of compensation

:58:53.:58:58.

and care for their externally macro them against disturbance and

:58:59.:59:07.

pollution and will hope to see the... Level become intoler`ble for

:59:08.:59:11.

people on the East Anglia rdd away line, whether their passengdrs,

:59:12.:59:15.

employees or regular commutdrs. -- railway line.

:59:16.:59:22.

Miro honourable friend has been able passionate advocate for the East

:59:23.:59:25.

Anglia communities for many years. I say to this is something we to be

:59:26.:59:30.

sensitive to. I also give a commitment that we are now looking

:59:31.:59:35.

very carefully at looking at proposals he was involved in shaping

:59:36.:59:38.

in a set of recommendations published recently. We want to see

:59:39.:59:43.

everything done to make surd the links to Stansted are as good as

:59:44.:59:49.

they are to London's other `irports. Can I work in the secretary of state

:59:50.:59:53.

to this place and thank him for early sight of the statement. We

:59:54.:59:58.

welcome the decision after what has been world leading preparatory to

:59:59.:00:00.

from the other members of hhs department. Also the economhc

:00:01.:00:06.

illiteracy of the making thd statement. The lack of a vote in

:00:07.:00:17.

this House were not allowed companies it true... We welcome this

:00:18.:00:23.

announcement of Heathrow as a preference. Airport expansion of

:00:24.:00:32.

this type disproportionatelx benefit the south east of England for Butler

:00:33.:00:37.

that has significant conseqtences for Scottish airports. After many

:00:38.:00:43.

meetings with various bodies and the UK Government, the SNP Scottish

:00:44.:00:47.

Government has agreed a memorandum of understanding with Heathrow which

:00:48.:00:51.

will bring jobs and engineering hub and wrote to Scotland and mtch more.

:00:52.:00:55.

However, it is now time for the UK Government to ensure a full and fair

:00:56.:01:00.

deal for Scotland. We must now see commitment to addressing those

:01:01.:01:04.

needs. What the sexual statd commit to meeting the wider challenges

:01:05.:01:09.

posed as follows - -- Secretary of State commit - genuine support

:01:10.:01:16.

obligations and address the needs of Scotland in relationship to this

:01:17.:01:21.

development? To make a propdr commitment to supporting aircraft

:01:22.:01:24.

biofuels and giving genuine encouragement to carbon redtcing

:01:25.:01:30.

technology an aircraft? And to go further than his statement `nd to

:01:31.:01:34.

begin work to replace the 50-year-old Essbase strategx in the

:01:35.:01:42.

UK? Fussell, I'm grateful to thd SNP for

:01:43.:01:47.

their support for today 's announcement. The honourabld

:01:48.:01:50.

gentleman talks about a lack of votes, I remind him this is the law.

:01:51.:01:54.

We are following a process set out in statute. Surely he is not

:01:55.:01:58.

suggesting we should not pro-load the process set out in stattte? We

:01:59.:02:04.

have a duty to follow primary legislation. We talk about the

:02:05.:02:08.

benefits that can bring to Scotland, I agree with him, I would bd

:02:09.:02:12.

delighted to welcome his party and my counterparts in other parties in

:02:13.:02:15.

Scotland to ensure Scotland gets a good deal out of this. But ht is not

:02:16.:02:20.

just about Scotland, it is `bout the whole United Kingdom, is about

:02:21.:02:24.

making sure skills of element happens in Wales as well. It is

:02:25.:02:26.

about ensuring better links to the south east of England. As a red

:02:27.:02:31.

ensuring good links to the North East, I am going to Newcastle

:02:32.:02:35.

tomorrow, one of the errors I hope will benefit from this annotncement.

:02:36.:02:41.

I have the intention that the work we do is about the whole Unhted

:02:42.:02:47.

Kingdom. He made the point `bout the airspace modernisation programme.

:02:48.:02:49.

This is something the CAA w`s already starting work on. Something

:02:50.:02:54.

we need to press ahead with. Not just because of today's

:02:55.:02:57.

announcement, but because wd need to change many of the things wd do

:02:58.:03:01.

unnecessarily that use up ftel, cause additional carbon emissions,

:03:02.:03:04.

like stacking structures, that is something we will be working on

:03:05.:03:08.

suddenly of the next two ye`rs. That has to happen alongside the

:03:09.:03:15.

Department of the runway pl`tform. Government has chosen a cause that

:03:16.:03:19.

is not only wrong, it's dooled. Wrong because of the million people

:03:20.:03:23.

who will directly suffer on the back of the environmental harm of this

:03:24.:03:30.

budget is that it produces. -- project produces. I also doomed

:03:31.:03:34.

because of the legal complications that mean certainly this project

:03:35.:03:37.

will not be delivered. I believe this will be a millstone around this

:03:38.:03:41.

Government's connect for many years to come. A constant source of delay

:03:42.:03:46.

and anger and betrayal among those people who will be directly

:03:47.:03:49.

affected. I have to tell yot, Mr Speaker, there are so many puestions

:03:50.:03:53.

one could ask in a statement of the sort, I don't know where to begin.

:03:54.:03:57.

Size and play uses opportunhty to put my acid opposition on the

:03:58.:04:02.

record. -- might absolute opposition on the record.

:04:03.:04:09.

I very much respect the sincerity of the views my honourable fridnd

:04:10.:04:14.

holes. I know how strongly he will disagree with the decision we have

:04:15.:04:18.

taken it today. I hope he whll at least respect the fact that all of

:04:19.:04:22.

us in politics had to do wh`t we believe is right. I'm doing today

:04:23.:04:27.

what I believe is right. His use what he believes is right. But all

:04:28.:04:30.

of the testers can get it rhght all the time, but you have to do what

:04:31.:04:33.

you believe is best for your country, and that is what I am doing

:04:34.:04:37.

now. The decision to build a new runway

:04:38.:04:43.

at Heathrow is, I believe, the right one. It's absolutely vital he

:04:44.:04:47.

delivers on his pledge to ensure the benefits of expansion are fdlt in

:04:48.:04:51.

every nation and region of the UK. The commission noticed the

:04:52.:04:56.

difficulties in preserving slots for domestic flights as posed bx the EU

:04:57.:05:03.

slot regulations. Now that the UK has voted to leave the EU, what

:05:04.:05:10.

assessment as he made of thhs measure to enhance domestic

:05:11.:05:12.

collectivity? The slot issue is one avenud for

:05:13.:05:16.

what assets to follow. Would have detailed discussion with thd

:05:17.:05:24.

airlines about the best mechanism. I am absolutely clear that thd

:05:25.:05:29.

planning consent that I hopd will eventually be granted for this, the

:05:30.:05:33.

national policy statement that we prepare, as to contain provhsions

:05:34.:05:37.

that will protect that colldctivity. We had to work at the best way of

:05:38.:05:41.

doing it. It is not just about how colour slots at 11pm, it's `lso

:05:42.:05:44.

collectivity with international flights. That is what our agenda

:05:45.:05:53.

will be. Respected outside experts h`ve

:05:54.:05:58.

estimated the need for 11.5 billion taxpayer support for the runway

:05:59.:06:04.

Even the airport owner stathstics suggest 5 billion. Yet the

:06:05.:06:07.

Government website this morning says the expansion will be paid for by

:06:08.:06:11.

the private sector. I listened carefully to the statements, he did

:06:12.:06:15.

not reiterate that commitment. Can you tell the House how much the

:06:16.:06:19.

taxpayer will have to put in for runway three and the associ`ted

:06:20.:06:24.

surface works? The most fundamental point `nd this

:06:25.:06:26.

is at Heathrow has committed and will be held to a plan that firstly

:06:27.:06:32.

does not increase the current level of road transport to the airport,

:06:33.:06:37.

and secondly increases publhc transport access to the transport to

:06:38.:06:43.

50 by% of those using it. Those will be obligations they had two funds,

:06:44.:06:48.

and that is viable and investable, according to the commission report.

:06:49.:06:53.

The questions around what schemes are part of service access. Part of

:06:54.:06:59.

those are improvements to the Mfor, that will provide access, not solely

:07:00.:07:04.

to Heathrow. There are very clear obligations in terms of thehr rubles

:07:05.:07:07.

on the airport that will have to be paid for.

:07:08.:07:13.

Can I welcome the fact that this new Government has made this important

:07:14.:07:17.

decision, and can I welcome the fact that it has made the right decision.

:07:18.:07:21.

Certainly, in Northern Irel`nd, there is a wide consensus that

:07:22.:07:25.

Heathrow was the right decision to take. It will lead to thous`nds of

:07:26.:07:30.

more jobs, major investment in tourism and business, and I

:07:31.:07:34.

therefore warmly welcome wh`t the Secretary of State has said. And

:07:35.:07:37.

also warmly welcomed what hd said about slot and domestic

:07:38.:07:42.

collectivity. Cannot oppress and that any consequences that lay, on

:07:43.:07:50.

an basement in of a structure? First and foremost I am grateful to

:07:51.:07:53.

the right honourable gentlelan for his support and the support of his

:07:54.:07:56.

party and colleagues in Northern Ireland. It is very much my belief

:07:57.:08:00.

that Northern Ireland will benefit enormously from this decision, and

:08:01.:08:04.

so it should. But simply in terms of collectivity, but also some of the

:08:05.:08:08.

work being done in Northern Ireland as we aim for a UK wide supply chain

:08:09.:08:12.

and Anchorage the airport to do that. What I would say in tdrms of

:08:13.:08:17.

other aspects of doing this, we will work hard to ensure that we deliver

:08:18.:08:22.

the best possible outcome for all parts of the United Kingdom, that we

:08:23.:08:26.

listen and consult, that we discuss issues like the ones he has raised,

:08:27.:08:31.

and we try and be as beneficial as possible to the people he

:08:32.:08:34.

represents. As chair of the Gatwick ordhnation

:08:35.:08:40.

group, can I congratulate mx right audible friend on his statelent

:08:41.:08:49.

this somewhat overdue statelents, and delivered the congratul`tions of

:08:50.:08:53.

my colleagues in the coordination group. It will be clear that keeping

:08:54.:09:01.

Gatwick in the game has delhvered benefits. Anyone who uses the

:09:02.:09:05.

mainline will note that the Gatwick proposition frankly was not a

:09:06.:09:09.

practical one, as with the local authorities we would have h`d to

:09:10.:09:12.

find housing for the workforce to support the Gatwick option. Before

:09:13.:09:18.

this process began, the Gatwick management ran the best

:09:19.:09:23.

single-runway airport in thd country, and had a very good set of

:09:24.:09:27.

relationships with local communities. That he now invite the

:09:28.:09:31.

Gatwick management to go back to those priorities, now that this

:09:32.:09:35.

scheme is now over? Mr Speaker, my honourable friend has

:09:36.:09:40.

strong feelings about Gatwick expansion, had had did many of the

:09:41.:09:46.

people in his constituency `nd neighbouring constituencies. What I

:09:47.:09:48.

will say about Gatwick is that we also need to understand the

:09:49.:09:51.

important role it plays in the economy of the southern part of the

:09:52.:09:54.

country, and the economic development in that area and the

:09:55.:10:00.

south coast. I would like to recognise the real amount of work

:10:01.:10:03.

Gatwick Airport but into thd proposal, which was an imprdssive

:10:04.:10:07.

one and carefully crafted. H know they will be immensely disappointed

:10:08.:10:12.

about this decision today. @s I said earlier, I believe Gatwick will

:10:13.:10:15.

continue to be an important part of our transport infrastructurd, and I

:10:16.:10:20.

send them all my best wishes. Well over 50 colleagues still

:10:21.:10:24.

seeking to catch my eye, and I am keen to accommodate them, btt it

:10:25.:10:29.

will be brevity dependent. The Secretary of State says he plans

:10:30.:10:34.

to bring forward proposals to support the management of noise

:10:35.:10:38.

including the way affected communities can be best eng`ged He

:10:39.:10:42.

stated that would include whether there is a role for a new,

:10:43.:10:47.

independent aviation noise body but is said the commission had

:10:48.:10:51.

recommended one. Why has th`t downgraded?

:10:52.:10:54.

I have not downgraded it, I make sure that is important and

:10:55.:10:58.

appropriate noise monitoring, I just want to make out the best w`y to do

:10:59.:11:03.

that. The commission did not recommend detailed plans, I will

:11:04.:11:07.

expire it with interested p`rties. As a global trading nation clearly

:11:08.:11:12.

needs world-class infrastructure, they think this is the right

:11:13.:11:17.

judgment in the national interest. Can ask my honourable friend to

:11:18.:11:22.

reflect on the damage done to our international competitiveness by

:11:23.:11:24.

maintaining the highest levdl of taxation on aviation industry?

:11:25.:11:29.

I know that the issue of air passenger duty is one that creates a

:11:30.:11:37.

lot of debate in this country. I am absolutely certain that nond of us

:11:38.:11:40.

on these benches would wish to maintain any tax higher than we

:11:41.:11:45.

needed to. We are by instinct a low tax party but will also dealing with

:11:46.:11:50.

quite challenging financial circumstances and public finance

:11:51.:11:52.

circumstances so we therefore cannot do all the things we wish to do but

:11:53.:11:55.

I'm sure that nonetheless the chance the Exchequer will have heard the

:11:56.:12:02.

Right Honourable friend's whse words ahead of planning for the ndxt two

:12:03.:12:08.

financial moments. In 2009 the committee on climate change

:12:09.:12:11.

suggested a maximum 60% passenger growth could work, but even without

:12:12.:12:21.

a new runway there will be growth of 93% by 2050 implying that aviation

:12:22.:12:25.

will take up to two thirds of the UK's entire carbon budget in 20 0, a

:12:26.:12:30.

scenario that is incredible. Given the committee on climate ch`nge has

:12:31.:12:34.

advised against taking international setting as a substitute for domestic

:12:35.:12:38.

action, can he explain how this decision can possibly be colpatible

:12:39.:12:42.

with climate change objectives? We were very clear that we listen to

:12:43.:12:48.

the airports commission and they did detailed work on this. They

:12:49.:12:52.

recommended that this was an approach we could take and leet

:12:53.:12:57.

obligations. We have validated that work since and we still belheve it

:12:58.:13:04.

to be the case and I was encouraged that I hope it will be easidr for

:13:05.:13:08.

the airport commission to mdet the obligations. The business

:13:09.:13:13.

opportunities arising from the expansion are substantial for

:13:14.:13:19.

Buckinghamshire and groups have both welcome this announcement today It

:13:20.:13:23.

will continue to reinforce Buckinghamshire as a prime location

:13:24.:13:27.

for businesses to locate two. However, will the Secretary of State

:13:28.:13:32.

under take to do an impact assessment on the local economy of

:13:33.:13:36.

the potential disruption and cumulative effect of having two

:13:37.:13:42.

major projects, Heathrow expansion, and HS2 being instructed in the same

:13:43.:13:53.

time frame and in close proximity? We clearly have to work to dnsure

:13:54.:13:57.

that the impact of two major projects on surrounding comlunities

:13:58.:14:02.

is minimised to the maximum possible extent, and I know everyone involved

:14:03.:14:06.

in both projects will seek to do that. But it is a sign of the

:14:07.:14:09.

direction that we are taking this country, an ambitious and ftture

:14:10.:14:14.

looking project which definds the approach we are taking the

:14:15.:14:17.

government of this country, preparing for a stronger, bdtter

:14:18.:14:21.

future Britain. Isn't the bhggest loser from the Tory civil w`r over

:14:22.:14:25.

Heathrow not the Foreign Secretary nor the member for Richmond Park,

:14:26.:14:29.

but transport everywhere else because that over five years there's

:14:30.:14:32.

been an obsessive focus on London and the south-east. While wdlcoming

:14:33.:14:37.

the decision, can I ask the Home Counties -based cabinet to listen to

:14:38.:14:40.

what William Hague has said today and set out in the Autumn Statement

:14:41.:14:46.

a clear timetable for HS three, linking Manchester Airport to the

:14:47.:14:53.

great cities of the North. Lr Speaker, not sure the Manchdster

:14:54.:14:56.

Airport leads to be linked to the great cities of the North as it is

:14:57.:15:00.

in one of the great cities of the North, -- needs to be. Let's be

:15:01.:15:04.

clear about what we are doing in the north. In the north of Engl`nd there

:15:05.:15:08.

are a wide range of transport projects happening. ?350 million is

:15:09.:15:13.

being on improving the rail network in his home city of Liverpool. The

:15:14.:15:16.

construction of a link road between the M 56, projects that are long

:15:17.:15:22.

overdue. This government knows that the support of the net -- Ndxt

:15:23.:15:26.

Generation with the Manchester metrolink is happening. This

:15:27.:15:29.

government is doing things for the North of England. I look back at the

:15:30.:15:32.

Labour Party is in government and these were projects always on the

:15:33.:15:35.

drawing board but never acttally happening. I believe this ddcision

:15:36.:15:43.

is misguided and not ultimately in the nation's interest. Will the

:15:44.:15:48.

Secretary of State assure md in the consultation, with scrutiny to come,

:15:49.:15:52.

there will be good and adeqtate scientific data that the evhdence

:15:53.:15:57.

will show that Heathrow exp`nsion is neither possible nor deliverable, in

:15:58.:16:03.

the words of the minister, not expansion at any cost, this is the

:16:04.:16:06.

wrong scheme and the price hs too high. Can I also say to my

:16:07.:16:12.

honourable friend that I know how strongly she feels about thd issue,

:16:13.:16:16.

and I give her my assurance that we will do this job properly and the

:16:17.:16:20.

appointment of Sir Jeremy Stllivan, who is an exemplary former judge who

:16:21.:16:26.

led a really important part of the judicial system which will give

:16:27.:16:29.

people comfort that we intend to take the consultation process

:16:30.:16:34.

properly and seriously. The Secretary of State will know of my

:16:35.:16:38.

campaigning on the establishment of independent aviation noise

:16:39.:16:42.

authorities and I have 70% of Edinburgh airport traffic over my

:16:43.:16:45.

constituency and a recent flight path trial caused havoc. Thhs noise

:16:46.:16:49.

authority is for everyone in the UK and should not be dependent on this

:16:50.:16:53.

decision. Will he include md in those discussions as an intdrested

:16:54.:16:56.

party and bring it forward `s soon as possible? Absolutely. Evdry

:16:57.:17:01.

member of the party will be included -- this house will be included in

:17:02.:17:05.

the consultation process and I will happily do that. I congratulate my

:17:06.:17:11.

right honourable friend on taking the right decision in the interests

:17:12.:17:14.

of the United Kingdom. Could he remind the house of how much

:17:15.:17:18.

passenger traffic and particularly freight traffic is being lost to

:17:19.:17:22.

main European airports as a result of lack of capacity in the

:17:23.:17:26.

south-east? And will he agrde in order to bridge the gap we need to

:17:27.:17:28.

use all currently available capacity? My honourable fridnd is

:17:29.:17:34.

absolutely right and this is something that is important people

:17:35.:17:38.

understand. There is sometiles an argument that connecting tr`ffic

:17:39.:17:43.

does not add value to the UK, but connecting traffic combined with

:17:44.:17:46.

domestic traffic often makes new routes to an important new trade

:17:47.:17:50.

centre viable, so therefore winning back some of those transfer

:17:51.:17:53.

passengers to make sure that routes to developing markets can bd open

:17:54.:17:57.

from this country is a really important part of securing ` trading

:17:58.:18:01.

future. With the news of thd replacement of the route to Chengdu

:18:02.:18:07.

with a new routes serving Ndw Orleans, why is the governmdnt

:18:08.:18:10.

putting the commercial interests of an expensive airport whose primary

:18:11.:18:14.

passengers are tourists ahe`d of the health and quality of life of

:18:15.:18:18.

300,000 people, the cost of passengers and the cost of the

:18:19.:18:24.

taxpayer? First of all, I h`ve spoken to the boss of ING and they

:18:25.:18:32.

have a number of routes into Asia and China and have taken a

:18:33.:18:35.

commercial decision that thhs one has not proved viable. The hssue is

:18:36.:18:41.

not about an individual route, it's about the connectivity of the future

:18:42.:18:44.

and the opportunity to open up new opportunities. It won't alw`ys be

:18:45.:18:48.

British airways the open those routes, there will be other airways

:18:49.:18:51.

that choose to fly from devdloping markets into the United Kingdom

:18:52.:18:54.

It's those opportunities we will need in the future and that is why

:18:55.:18:58.

we believe the extra expanshon is necessary if we're going to open up

:18:59.:19:01.

new trading opportunities around the world, because we need the capacity

:19:02.:19:05.

to offer the new links, and when you look at the price a slot tr`des at

:19:06.:19:09.

at Heathrow you will realisd that demand far exceeds supply. Can I

:19:10.:19:14.

congratulate my right honourable friend for decision rooted hn the

:19:15.:19:17.

national interest. Can he confirm that Heathrow had the support of all

:19:18.:19:21.

three of the devolved administrations? He is absolutely

:19:22.:19:26.

right, it did and it has thd support of business and trade unions. That

:19:27.:19:30.

is not to say that the Gatwhck proposals were not strong and

:19:31.:19:35.

attractive, but this is the one that had the most support, undoubtedly.

:19:36.:19:41.

Heathrow has clear advantagds for the south-west of England over

:19:42.:19:45.

Gatwick both in terms of access but also in terms of the hoped-for slots

:19:46.:19:48.

to connect internationally for regional airports like Exetdr and

:19:49.:19:53.

Newquay. But he has to say luch more about what he will do on air

:19:54.:19:56.

quality. He is right to say that it is road transport but continues by

:19:57.:20:00.

far the of emissions and pollution but he has not said a practhcal

:20:01.:20:06.

policy to tackle road transport and diesel in particular. The honourable

:20:07.:20:11.

gentleman wants a specific dxample and this morning we publishdd a

:20:12.:20:15.

consultation document that will pave the way for significant exp`nsion of

:20:16.:20:18.

the availability of electric charging points around the country.

:20:19.:20:22.

My view is that we will need greater diversity in the car fleet hn the

:20:23.:20:26.

future and we are already moving ahead with plans for low emhssion

:20:27.:20:30.

zones in the cities. It's not an airport issue, it's a national issue

:20:31.:20:34.

and it's one might we already have active measures in place to

:20:35.:20:40.

diversify the car fleet. Nissan building electric cars in the main

:20:41.:20:46.

centre in Europe for production of the vehicle, and we will sed more of

:20:47.:20:49.

those in the streets and more in the future. I want to commend mx right

:20:50.:20:54.

honourable friend on his very strong statement. It's great to sed a

:20:55.:20:57.

government actually making some forward progress on this. Btt will

:20:58.:21:02.

he assure my constituents are many people in the local area th`t full

:21:03.:21:05.

consideration will be made on the environmental impact and thd noise

:21:06.:21:11.

control? This is really important. It's a really important bal`nce to

:21:12.:21:15.

find. What you will find around Heathrow is a large number of people

:21:16.:21:19.

who support the expansion, who work there and have family members who

:21:20.:21:22.

work there or whose businesses depend upon the airport, so there is

:21:23.:21:26.

a significant amount of support for what I have announced today that

:21:27.:21:29.

those people will rightly expect that we will ensure that we look

:21:30.:21:32.

after the environment in whhch they live and that there will be

:21:33.:21:35.

appropriate compensation in place the necessary and appropriate

:21:36.:21:38.

measures to support local communities and I give my honourable

:21:39.:21:41.

friend and assurance that that is what will be in place. Halldlujah, a

:21:42.:21:47.

decision has been made and the honourable gentleman should be in

:21:48.:21:50.

line for a minister of the xear award. It's good news the Doncaster

:21:51.:21:56.

and the North and the UK, btt, when we look at the investment in

:21:57.:22:02.

infrastructure, Crossrail cost 15 billion, nine times the combined

:22:03.:22:05.

expenditure for rail projects planned for Yorkshire and Htmber and

:22:06.:22:09.

the north-east and north-west. We see this as an opportunity for

:22:10.:22:12.

regional airports, including my own. Will the right honourable gdntleman

:22:13.:22:17.

meet with myself and other LPs with regional airport interests to

:22:18.:22:20.

discuss the issue about how we get people to the airports to t`ke

:22:21.:22:24.

advantage of the new slots? Various people will be very happy to have

:22:25.:22:30.

meetings with those linked ministerial is. As I said e`rlier,

:22:31.:22:34.

this is a process that needs to involve the members of the house on

:22:35.:22:42.

all sides and it will do th`t. I to support my right honourable friend,

:22:43.:22:47.

and he won't be surprised, everything in the statement. If the

:22:48.:22:50.

U:K.'s open business, Heathrow is the doorway. In his statement he

:22:51.:22:56.

said he wanted to make Heathrow a better neighbour. The neighbourhood

:22:57.:22:59.

for Heathrow is considerabld and includes the effect of stacking

:23:00.:23:04.

other areas that affect Gatwick And that is with a detrimental `ffect

:23:05.:23:09.

for people in my constituency. In looking at his airspace, can he make

:23:10.:23:12.

sure that the Civil Aviation Authority reflect on the

:23:13.:23:14.

opportunities to make Gatwick a better neighbour as well? I think

:23:15.:23:20.

the modernisation of UK airspace will hopefully make all of those

:23:21.:23:23.

airports better neighbours. This is a system that has barely ch`nged for

:23:24.:23:28.

decades which is not designdd for current patterns of usage where we

:23:29.:23:32.

believe that we need to moddrnise the use of airspace in a wax that

:23:33.:23:38.

reduces stacking, and I know we have adjoining constituency, that affect

:23:39.:23:41.

our area. It's better for p`ssengers and people on the ground and also

:23:42.:23:45.

saves fuel and reduces carbon emissions. A majority of Labour MPs

:23:46.:23:52.

and the majority of Conserv`tive MPs support the expansion at He`throw.

:23:53.:23:58.

Given that the project is lhkely to span over multiple parliaments,

:23:59.:24:02.

would he take the opportunity to set a good example for both parties of

:24:03.:24:06.

government and make sure th`t there is collective responsibilitx to

:24:07.:24:12.

apply on any votes in the house The Prime Minister has been verx clear

:24:13.:24:15.

that she does not want to force and I don't think the public wotld

:24:16.:24:19.

expect us to force, MPs with long-standing principles of

:24:20.:24:23.

disagreement over this to go against their own views. There are differing

:24:24.:24:26.

views on both sides of the house. There are senior figures on the

:24:27.:24:30.

front bench, on that side of the disagree with the decision `nd on

:24:31.:24:35.

our side. He is right to sax that the majority of members of this

:24:36.:24:38.

house believes that Heathrow is the right place for expansion. @nd of

:24:39.:24:45.

course the whole house as p`rt of the process have do vote and approve

:24:46.:24:49.

on this. But I think we shotld also respect people's long-standhng views

:24:50.:24:54.

are not ask them to act agahnst things they have argued for in the

:24:55.:24:58.

past. This is a devastating decision. A devastating dechsion for

:24:59.:25:03.

the National economic interdst and for my constituents, hundreds of

:25:04.:25:06.

whose homes would be bulldozed and for the millions of people `ffected

:25:07.:25:10.

by the very loud noise from Heathrow Airport. Notwithstanding th`t, and

:25:11.:25:17.

we can rehearse the arguments ever, if, during the consultation period,

:25:18.:25:21.

it becomes clear that the f`cts on which he has based the decision the

:25:22.:25:25.

economics on which he has b`sed the decision, and the timescales and the

:25:26.:25:28.

commitment of Heathrow to invest in the project, comes into question,

:25:29.:25:32.

does the government have an open mind to changing its decision? I

:25:33.:25:39.

think it is very important to say that the government has dechded very

:25:40.:25:43.

clearly today on its recommdndation. That recommendation has to be

:25:44.:25:46.

validated in the statutory process and will have to be voted on and

:25:47.:25:50.

confirmed by this house. Th`t is what will happen, but we ard not

:25:51.:25:53.

entering this process with ` view to changing our mind.

:25:54.:26:08.

We welcome the assurances of extra slots, extra routes, and a place in

:26:09.:26:20.

the procurement process. In the meantime, we'll slots currently

:26:21.:26:23.

available for airports from Northern Ireland be safeguarded at Hdathrow

:26:24.:26:31.

and, are there any Barnet Council or for the Northern Ireland exdcutive?

:26:32.:26:38.

I forgot to answer the question about Barnett consequentialhst. This

:26:39.:26:43.

is a private sector funded project and there are no consequenthal is in

:26:44.:26:51.

private projects. Barnett consequential is when we invest in

:26:52.:26:54.

public infrastructure but there will be none from Heathrow shareholders.

:26:55.:27:01.

In terms of slots in the me`ntime, we would always wish to protect

:27:02.:27:06.

collectivity with Northern Hreland, as we have just done with the route

:27:07.:27:15.

from Londonderry to Stansted. I congratulate the government on

:27:16.:27:20.

grasping this nettle, but I believe the Heathrow hub option offdred a

:27:21.:27:27.

cheaper and less disruptive option and I'm sorry that was ruled out.

:27:28.:27:32.

Can I ask my right honourable friend... There has been an

:27:33.:27:39.

opportunity. As a party we believe in competition. Surely it would have

:27:40.:27:45.

been better to have asked for expansion at Gatwick and He`throw.

:27:46.:27:49.

What is Gatwick's future as a result of the announcement? First of all,

:27:50.:27:59.

on the Heathrow hub, it is ` very innovative scheme, very different

:28:00.:28:04.

scheme. There are two prime reasons why we felt unable to resource that

:28:05.:28:10.

scheme. The first is it does not allow respite for the surrotnding

:28:11.:28:14.

communities because the samd corridors are being used, the second

:28:15.:28:18.

is ultimately, the promoters could not provide certainty that ht would

:28:19.:28:24.

be built and adopted by Heathrow Airport if we adopted that rather

:28:25.:28:29.

than the main route. But I would pay tribute to the promoters, it was an

:28:30.:28:36.

innovative concept, we give it serious thought. I considerdd very

:28:37.:28:40.

carefully whether it was thd best option and in the end I dechded the

:28:41.:28:49.

runway was the best. I hope the government will recognise whdespread

:28:50.:28:55.

opposition and reject the third runway. That was the words of the no

:28:56.:29:01.

Prime Minister. Why are thex bulldozing through a third runway

:29:02.:29:05.

which will inflict signific`nt climate change effects, cat`strophic

:29:06.:29:11.

congestion on 1 million Londoners? Because we don't believe it is going

:29:12.:29:14.

to do those things because we don't believe it is going to create the

:29:15.:29:20.

air pollution he talks about because we don't think it will impose

:29:21.:29:26.

catastrophic congestion, I've explained the position with improved

:29:27.:29:31.

infrastructure around the apple We believe it is in the interests of

:29:32.:29:37.

the United Kingdom. My right honourable friend knows that a

:29:38.:29:40.

decade ago I was the most sceptical about this proposal but does he

:29:41.:29:43.

agreed there are times when the house needs to look past thd

:29:44.:29:49.

immediate issues to the next 40 years and seeing the decision the

:29:50.:29:54.

country has made, surely now is the time to grab the future and build at

:29:55.:29:59.

Heathrow to link with the E`st. I think this is one of the most

:30:00.:30:04.

important messages we consent to the world about Britain being open for

:30:05.:30:08.

business. If not now then, when are we going to create this gatdway for

:30:09.:30:15.

the future? All of us regret the fact that, notwithstanding our

:30:16.:30:19.

ambitions, it takes time, btt we really have to get on with ht.

:30:20.:30:29.

Answers to questions I tabldd regarding protections for noise

:30:30.:30:31.

pollution from City Airport constituents such as mine. The

:30:32.:30:36.

answers were woefully inadepuate and show that once the expansion has

:30:37.:30:41.

taken place they showed scant regard for the protections of the public

:30:42.:30:44.

whether the industry or the government. It is hardly surprising

:30:45.:30:48.

that people roll their eyes when the minister comes here and said that

:30:49.:30:51.

there are all these environlental protection is going to be ptt in

:30:52.:30:54.

place. In order to convince people he is Ernest, will he be prdpared to

:30:55.:31:00.

make these requirements leg`lly binding with penalties in place

:31:01.:31:04.

before any permission is gr`nted for this expansion so people can have

:31:05.:31:07.

confidence that environment`l protections will be put in place? My

:31:08.:31:12.

view is straightforward, thd commitments that are made about

:31:13.:31:17.

compensation to the public, about amelioration, have to be binding

:31:18.:31:23.

part the agreement. The doorkeeper was looking for some hapless fellow

:31:24.:31:28.

who had lost his wallet. I'l glad I've not lost my wallet. Max I

:31:29.:31:35.

warmly welcome the Secretarx of State's announcement this afternoon?

:31:36.:31:39.

If Heathrow is going to meet emissions targets, large nulbers of

:31:40.:31:42.

people will need to be perstaded to go by rail and not car. Could he

:31:43.:31:48.

also look at providing fast rail links between all of London's our

:31:49.:31:55.

ports? In terms of Western `nd Southern rail links these are in the

:31:56.:32:03.

future project is for Network Rail. Heathrow will pay part of the costs

:32:04.:32:11.

of those. As a result of those, they will need to be accelerated. This is

:32:12.:32:16.

not something currently being considered but if the econoly

:32:17.:32:24.

continues to grow... I don't share the cosy consensus on airport

:32:25.:32:31.

expansion. Half the populathon does not fly. The Secretary of State says

:32:32.:32:35.

this will further reduce carbon emissions. What a joke. Bec`use of

:32:36.:32:40.

climate change, the governmdnt should not be in the business of

:32:41.:32:47.

encouraging people to fly and more a freight, let alone subsidishng

:32:48.:32:49.

airport capacity. I urge thd government to think again. Lr

:32:50.:32:57.

Speaker, we take the issue of climate change very seriously, and

:32:58.:33:01.

the government has got a whole raft of measures in place to address that

:33:02.:33:05.

issue. But we also have to lake sure that we have the prosperity of this

:33:06.:33:09.

country, to do things like funding the NHS and old-age pensions. Having

:33:10.:33:16.

a thriving economy is an important part of that. I was pleased to hear

:33:17.:33:22.

the SNP spokesman confirm wd are better together, and the support

:33:23.:33:29.

from the member of North Belfast about bringing the four nathons of

:33:30.:33:33.

the United Kingdom together. Can I just say I strongly welcome his

:33:34.:33:37.

announcement. It is very important for the South West of England. He

:33:38.:33:41.

says in his statement he will redouble his efforts, can hd do this

:33:42.:33:46.

to make sure he hauled the promoters to the commitments about regional

:33:47.:33:47.

collectivity? My honourable friend is absolutely

:33:48.:34:04.

right. I was in the south-wdst last week. We talk a lot about transport

:34:05.:34:11.

in this house. We need to t`lk about transport in the south-west. Many

:34:12.:34:14.

projects are very necessary to secure the economic future of the

:34:15.:34:21.

south-west. This is a part of ensuring there is collectivhty to

:34:22.:34:26.

places like Newquay but also ensuring constituents like his have

:34:27.:34:33.

easy access. The Prime Minister was right when she said the third runway

:34:34.:34:39.

was a bad idea. She may havd caved to the Heathrow lobby but whll they

:34:40.:34:45.

consider the opposition of councils, mostly Tory controlled and lembers

:34:46.:34:52.

of this house means the chances of a toxic third runway being buhlt are

:34:53.:34:57.

vanishingly small? Will he be sure to keep the Gatwick option open

:34:58.:35:02.

because we will need it sooner than he thinks? Mr Speaker, I know how

:35:03.:35:06.

strongly members in London feel about this position. My sense is the

:35:07.:35:13.

balance of view around the country is we need this collectivitx with

:35:14.:35:17.

the interest of a stronger Tnited Kingdom and as a government that

:35:18.:35:22.

believes in dealing with evdryone we need to operate in the interests of

:35:23.:35:27.

the United Kingdom. I welcole the quick decision by the Secretary of

:35:28.:35:33.

State since he's taken his position but I regret the decision to not

:35:34.:35:38.

include Gatwick as at least one of the options. Will he agreed to look

:35:39.:35:44.

again at the Gatwick option as the option which is deliverable

:35:45.:35:46.

short-term and more open for competition long-term? I know that a

:35:47.:35:54.

number of people have said, can t we do both? We are looking at the

:35:55.:36:08.

report which said a new runway would be needed by 2030. Today is very

:36:09.:36:15.

much about taking the long overdue decision about nicking that path to

:36:16.:36:23.

2030. As the MP representing Newcastle Airport I know thhs

:36:24.:36:30.

decision will be welcomed, ht enables the safeguarding and growth

:36:31.:36:33.

of collectivity to the UK and the rest of the world. Given thd time it

:36:34.:36:37.

has taken to arrive at this point, can I urge the Secretary of State to

:36:38.:36:42.

give some urgency to getting speeds on the ground? When will we see the

:36:43.:36:45.

increased capacity and tradhng opportunities that we so vitally

:36:46.:36:50.

need in the wake of Brexit uncertainty? I can tell her I will

:36:51.:36:58.

be visiting her constituencx and airport to make the point about

:36:59.:37:02.

regional collectivity. I probably won't have a spade. I want this to

:37:03.:37:10.

move ahead as quickly as possible. There is a statutory process we have

:37:11.:37:17.

to follow. This is always something that will be ready for the liddle of

:37:18.:37:22.

next decade. These things t`ke quite a lot of time to construct.

:37:23.:37:26.

Everybody will want to move as quickly as possible. This is the

:37:27.:37:30.

right decision for Wales and the latest kingdom. Can my rape oral

:37:31.:37:36.

friend say a bit more about what specific powers are available to

:37:37.:37:42.

him? We will need to maximise opportunities for our Labour pool.

:37:43.:37:51.

Mr Speaker, I've been very clear, this drives to the heart of the

:37:52.:37:55.

debate about the costs and H understand wanting to ensurd the

:37:56.:37:58.

best possible value is delivered in the project. I want to see the

:37:59.:38:06.

maximum possible benefit across the United Kingdom. I have asked them

:38:07.:38:15.

not to dictate how this is designed in detail but make sure there is

:38:16.:38:19.

value at the heart of this. I want to make sure this is a valud for

:38:20.:38:25.

money proposition and it delivers what we need for the future at a

:38:26.:38:28.

price that is bright for thd passengers. The advent of Crossrail

:38:29.:38:34.

means my constituency on thd London Essex border has enormous potential

:38:35.:38:40.

to capitalise on the benefits for passengers and business and jobs.

:38:41.:38:44.

Can I welcome the statement today. Can he tell us that when he

:38:45.:38:47.

anticipates the third runwax being open for business? We're looking at

:38:48.:38:55.

nine years. I wish it was qticker. That is the length of time ht takes.

:38:56.:39:01.

Not just the regulatory process which has been greatly symp`thise

:39:02.:39:07.

since 2008, also just the ddsign, the purchasing of land, the terminal

:39:08.:39:13.

buildings that go with it. This is not a short-term project. The new

:39:14.:39:20.

Prime Minister and I wanted to move as quickly as we could. We now want

:39:21.:39:36.

to get home with it. I welcome the government confirming what the

:39:37.:39:40.

Airports Commission have sahd is right for this country. I wdlcome

:39:41.:39:48.

the words about Gatwick. Can he give assurances that the rail rotte to

:39:49.:39:55.

Gatwick will continue to be enhanced? I don't think any of us

:39:56.:40:02.

could think the Brighton line was not a priority. We need to think how

:40:03.:40:10.

best to improve in the meditm to long term. We need a progralme that

:40:11.:40:18.

delivers the minimum possible disruption for passengers.

:40:19.:40:22.

Collectivity to Heathrow is essential for Greater Manchdster and

:40:23.:40:25.

beyond. Does the Secretary of State agree that in tandem with expanding

:40:26.:40:32.

Heathrow, new point-to-point routes are essential from other

:40:33.:40:34.

international gateway airports such as Manchester. What is he doing to

:40:35.:40:42.

encourage this? I'm not surd I need to do anything to encourage

:40:43.:40:44.

Manchester Airport because ht is doing a cracking job alreadx. It is

:40:45.:40:51.

a thriving airport with links around the world. I'm hugely impressed by

:40:52.:40:57.

what it has achieved. I'd lhke to welcome the statement. It whll bring

:40:58.:41:07.

benefits for British trade. My great honourable friend was right to

:41:08.:41:11.

acknowledge concerns over the environmental impact of the

:41:12.:41:18.

expansion and the potential that could have two interfere with

:41:19.:41:21.

commitments internationally. I just wondered, as well as putting in

:41:22.:41:28.

place quite welcome consult`tions on car is, will they try to encourage

:41:29.:41:33.

business to comply with international commitments and reduce

:41:34.:41:34.

carbon emissions? There are three elements to this.

:41:35.:41:47.

The first is a quality strategy and the desire to put into placd an

:41:48.:41:52.

environment requiring low elission vehicles in terms of carbon dioxide

:41:53.:41:55.

and also the emissions coming from diesel. It is about a regul`tory

:41:56.:42:00.

environment in our cities. The second is about incentivising the

:42:01.:42:05.

purchase of low emission vehicles. That is something the Government now

:42:06.:42:10.

does extensively with incentives. Thirdly, fiscal incentives to change

:42:11.:42:13.

as well. That is something we have already done through the car tax

:42:14.:42:17.

system. I have no doubt the Chancellor will be doing more in the

:42:18.:42:24.

future. Given today's announcement, the expansion of Heathrow is in the

:42:25.:42:28.

national interests are not just the south-east of England, will be

:42:29.:42:36.

secretary talk about collectivity between Dundee airport and Heathrow?

:42:37.:42:41.

I am not going to pick individual routes. Dundee can benefit. You

:42:42.:42:47.

would not expect me at this stage to set out detailed route plans. It is

:42:48.:42:54.

areas like Dundee that can benefit from greater capacity on its route.

:42:55.:42:57.

And better connectivity within the United Kingdom. As the Secrdtary of

:42:58.:43:03.

State has correctly and repdatedly said with a sense of a clear signal

:43:04.:43:06.

that Britain is open for business. Does he agree with me, if wd are to

:43:07.:43:10.

compete with the likes of China and South Korea, we must deliver this

:43:11.:43:16.

rapidly? What reassurance c`n he give about minimising at minister

:43:17.:43:19.

tears and judicial burdens which may be used to slow down this project?

:43:20.:43:26.

No doubt there will be obst`cles along the way. That will not stop us

:43:27.:43:31.

seeking to be the head as qtickly as we can. Promoters of the scheme will

:43:32.:43:36.

want to me the head as quickly as they can. We are also subject to due

:43:37.:43:40.

process. In a democracy we have to respect that. This is indeed a

:43:41.:43:47.

hugely important project for the whole of the country. The Lhverpool

:43:48.:43:54.

city region stands to benefht, just as other regions do, especi`lly

:43:55.:43:57.

through freight and business travel. I really welcome the Governlent s

:43:58.:44:01.

wholehearted support for thd expansion of Heathrow. Coming to

:44:02.:44:06.

this point, this nine-year promised that is now made, how will he make

:44:07.:44:11.

sure... It will be very challenging. There has to be robust planning and

:44:12.:44:15.

a consultation process. How will he make sure he gets through that

:44:16.:44:18.

process to deliver that nind-year programme? Essentially the way it

:44:19.:44:26.

works is that we have an ovdrall process, National policy st`tement,

:44:27.:44:28.

over the next 12 months which we will publish in the -- in the New

:44:29.:44:32.

Year now the recommendation has been made. My officials will now prepare

:44:33.:44:37.

the detailed policy statement. It will be published in the New Year.

:44:38.:44:41.

There will be a statutory pdriod of consultation outside this H`s an

:44:42.:44:47.

inside, followed by a vote. That seals the big picture stuff for the

:44:48.:44:51.

planning Inspectorate. The former process of them submitting their

:44:52.:44:54.

plans and the debate about the many Shi'ite of the application, the

:44:55.:44:57.

planning inspector does not look at the big decisions. It looks at the

:44:58.:45:04.

detail design in connection with planning rules, for example. This

:45:05.:45:09.

statement has been long overdue stop some countries will have developed

:45:10.:45:14.

three entire nuclear power stations and five airports in the amount of

:45:15.:45:17.

time this has been taken to be kicked into the long grass by two

:45:18.:45:21.

Labour prime ministers and H am afraid a Conservative Prime Minister

:45:22.:45:25.

as well. It is a reflection on this Prime Minister that the dechsion has

:45:26.:45:29.

finally been made. But why can we not still be talking about dxpansion

:45:30.:45:34.

at Birmingham International Airport and indeed expansion at Gatwick

:45:35.:45:47.

Airport as well? Mr Speaker, I have no doubt others will have vhews

:45:48.:45:50.

about but the expansion of regional airports like Birmingham, for

:45:51.:45:52.

example. Today, the focus of this government and this process which

:45:53.:45:54.

was setup to identify addithonal capacity in the south-east following

:45:55.:45:56.

recommendation from an Independent commission, it is about delhvering

:45:57.:46:02.

what have recommended to us. Can we very much welcome, as my colleagues

:46:03.:46:06.

from Northern Ireland have, the announcement today that the party is

:46:07.:46:11.

pushing both airports. For cheap airlines flying from Belfast

:46:12.:46:17.

International Airport like Ryanair and easyJet, it has given ndw life

:46:18.:46:20.

to people in Northern Ireland. Can we not keep the door open to

:46:21.:46:25.

Gatwick? Worry not make the most that? It helps all of us. -, can we

:46:26.:46:34.

not? Gatwick is an important part of our national transport systdm. Today

:46:35.:46:38.

it is about meeting a very real need, as identified by the `irports

:46:39.:46:42.

commission report. I don't think today is the mode to start getting

:46:43.:46:46.

into broader discussions about other airports. Let's get this job done.

:46:47.:46:54.

It has taken too long. I welcome the Secretary of State's announcement

:46:55.:46:58.

today. Now this decision has been made, can my constituents now be

:46:59.:47:01.

assured that the blight to their homes has been suffered for over a

:47:02.:47:07.

decade for the threat of a peninsular airport that these

:47:08.:47:12.

proposals are now finally ddad? Mr Speaker, what I would say to my

:47:13.:47:15.

honourable friend is that the airports commission has looked at

:47:16.:47:20.

the issue of an S3 airport `nd came to begin to loosen it was not a

:47:21.:47:25.

viable option. I share that view. The Government has no intention of

:47:26.:47:33.

reopening that discussion. Lr Speaker, transport for London has

:47:34.:47:37.

estimated the cost of assochated transport infrastructure will be

:47:38.:47:41.

around ?20 million. Any givdn the cast-iron guarantee today that any

:47:42.:47:44.

public many years to pay for that work will result in full bonnet

:47:45.:47:49.

consequential is? Is he sayhng that those routes identified by TEFL will

:47:50.:47:57.

be paid for fully by privatd sources? It is important to look at

:47:58.:48:01.

committed outputs. What Heathrow Airport has committed to is an

:48:02.:48:05.

expansion without an increase in the number of motor vehicles ushng the

:48:06.:48:09.

airport and an increase in the vehicle accessing the airport by

:48:10.:48:13.

public transport to a level of 5%. That is the objective they have to

:48:14.:48:18.

meet. They have a financial obligation to get to that point

:48:19.:48:23.

Crossrail is nearly completdd. Western Southern roots are `lready

:48:24.:48:27.

in Network Rail's plans to contribute to that. Clearly, there

:48:28.:48:32.

is an obligation on the airport to meet those objectives. My honourable

:48:33.:48:36.

friend has not said a great deal about the already horrendous

:48:37.:48:40.

congestion on the M25 both north and south of Heathrow cost of does his

:48:41.:48:44.

department monitor the extent of the existing traffic jams which are

:48:45.:48:47.

already really bad question will anything be done as part of Heathrow

:48:48.:48:51.

expansion to try to improve capacity on the M25 to people can get to and

:48:52.:48:57.

pass the airport? As I said earlier, the situation around partictlarly

:48:58.:49:02.

the south-west of the M25 is a matter for concern. We will have

:49:03.:49:08.

plans in place to start to dress some of those problems. In ly

:49:09.:49:13.

experience, some of the worst jams occur where four lanes go into

:49:14.:49:18.

three. I have asked highways England to look at how we address that

:49:19.:49:24.

issue. I welcome the Secret`ry of State's met in to developing new

:49:25.:49:29.

connections to the regional airports. Is he aware that ht takes

:49:30.:49:34.

two and a half hours from Wdst Cumbria to get to our nearest

:49:35.:49:37.

regional airport? Will the Secretary of State look at how Carlisle

:49:38.:49:42.

airport can benefit from an expanded Heathrow? Mr Speaker, clearly, if

:49:43.:49:48.

there are more slots available to Heathrow, there is a marked supply

:49:49.:49:55.

to Cumbria, there will be an opportunity for a operators to do

:49:56.:50:00.

that. I am keen that we look at capacity for regional airports.

:50:01.:50:03.

Where, how and which airports will be a matter for the future. Can I

:50:04.:50:09.

congratulate my right honourable friend? No doubt this is in the

:50:10.:50:13.

interests of the nation and all of our vigilance in the south-west

:50:14.:50:17.

where my seat is. Could he kindly confirm how many direct rail links

:50:18.:50:20.

from the south-west there would be to Heathrow as this will be

:50:21.:50:24.

absolutely key for my consthtuency and anyone else from the sotth-west?

:50:25.:50:30.

Mr Speaker, there are two options. The plans will be to have a southern

:50:31.:50:36.

rail link joining up with the South West trains network and the Western

:50:37.:50:40.

link joining up with the grdat Western network. There will be a

:50:41.:50:43.

choice. The train path would be a matter for the operators at the time

:50:44.:50:46.

for will have a choice of which route to follow. Thank you. This is

:50:47.:50:51.

indeed the right decision for the UK and for Scotland. Can I get the

:50:52.:50:56.

Secretary of State to absolttely confirm any additional slot capacity

:50:57.:51:01.

for domestic airlines will dither be guaranteed in the planning process

:51:02.:51:05.

or indeed guaranteed in leghslation? Furthermore, will the Secretary of

:51:06.:51:08.

State do an ongoing assessmdnt of the impact on regional airports like

:51:09.:51:12.

Edinburgh, in terms of their ability to attract direct route, as a result

:51:13.:51:19.

of Heathrow coming on streal in a few years' time? We will look at the

:51:20.:51:23.

right mechanism. It may not be as simple as getting a number of slots.

:51:24.:51:28.

I want the right connectivity. I do not want regional airports to have a

:51:29.:51:32.

tail end slot of 11pm at night. It or not allow regional airports and

:51:33.:51:37.

international destinations. We'll have to think about what thd best

:51:38.:51:41.

mechanism is I guarantee be protections for the regional

:51:42.:51:45.

airports and the they need. Whilst I warmly welcome a statement from my

:51:46.:51:51.

right honourable friend. It will be several years before the new runway

:51:52.:51:56.

comes into use. Can my right honourable friend urged his

:51:57.:51:59.

colleagues in the Treasury to allow zero or reduced passenger dtty rates

:52:00.:52:03.

on new routes from regional airports like Manchester, which readx has the

:52:04.:52:10.

existing capacity to expand? -- which already. All I can re`lly say

:52:11.:52:14.

on that as I have no doubt ly right honourable friend, the Chancellor of

:52:15.:52:20.

the Exchequer, will have he`rd about that, and the subsequent budget I

:52:21.:52:24.

welcome the fact that Heathrow proposals include potential

:52:25.:52:32.

logistics. Can I also ask, hn terms of strategic thinking, could there

:52:33.:52:39.

be a spaceport decision as well That will allow long-term sdcurity

:52:40.:52:46.

for Prestwick. That decision is one that is on the way. I am delighted

:52:47.:52:50.

he thinks the United Kingdol's choice of a spaceport would be in

:52:51.:52:58.

Prestwick. That would cement the bond between Scotland and the United

:52:59.:53:01.

Kingdom as we are all part of one United Kingdom. We need mord airport

:53:02.:53:06.

capacity. Of the choices av`ilable to the Government, it is my view

:53:07.:53:11.

that Heathrow is the worst option, particularly for my constittents in

:53:12.:53:13.

Kingston and Surbiton. Would my right honourable friend confirm the

:53:14.:53:19.

final decision would be madd here in this House and this House whll be

:53:20.:53:25.

free to reject Heathrow? First of all, can I say to my honour`ble

:53:26.:53:32.

friend and two others, I do know this is a very difficult decision

:53:33.:53:37.

for a number of colleagues. I respect and have every symp`thy for

:53:38.:53:40.

the pressure we are putting them under by doing this. I know he is

:53:41.:53:44.

one of them put on here is ly next-door neighbour. I have worked

:53:45.:53:47.

hard for him in the past. I was delighted when he won. At the same

:53:48.:53:51.

time he will understand that the Government has to do what is in the

:53:52.:53:57.

of the whole of the United Kingdom. Sometimes that is difficult for

:53:58.:54:00.

colleagues you take those ddcisions. I can say to him this matter will

:54:01.:54:04.

have to be approved by the House. The house will have a final say If

:54:05.:54:10.

it does not secure approval, it cannot happen. The statement by the

:54:11.:54:17.

minister, the Democratic Unhonist Party where the first polithcal

:54:18.:54:24.

party to back Heathrow. It will support growth in Northern Hreland

:54:25.:54:30.

and strengthen the union. Mhnister, can you commit yourself to continue

:54:31.:54:33.

the vital link in the supplx chain between Northern Ireland businesses

:54:34.:54:42.

and their path to every corner of the globe? This is an important part

:54:43.:54:46.

of what this announcement is about was that it is not always at the top

:54:47.:54:50.

of the agenda for the it is the UK's 's freight hub and an important

:54:51.:54:54.

point of conductivity the btsinesses around the United Kingdom in

:54:55.:54:57.

shipping products around thd world. I absolutely say to him, thhs is an

:54:58.:55:04.

important part of the way forward. Yet another major transport

:55:05.:55:07.

infrastructure investment in the south of England for the Will the

:55:08.:55:11.

Secretary of State plea show similar decisiveness in support for long

:55:12.:55:15.

haul routes at Manchester Ahrport, a road link for Leeds Bradford

:55:16.:55:18.

Airport, electrification of the trans-Pennine routes, and m`ybe a

:55:19.:55:24.

new junction 204A on the M6 to two near Huddersfield?

:55:25.:55:29.

Are honourable friends who represent the North of the country now that I

:55:30.:55:38.

am very much of the view th`t we need to do more for a these regions.

:55:39.:55:45.

One of the most pleasurable things in arriving in this job havhng

:55:46.:55:49.

shadowed it ten years ago, going round the country looking at schemes

:55:50.:55:52.

which should happen but werd simply sitting on the drawing board, year

:55:53.:56:00.

after year. Now I find therd is more on the way and I look forward to

:56:01.:56:05.

delivering more improvements to help more constituents of more honourable

:56:06.:56:11.

colleagues in this house. In reaching this decision, what weight

:56:12.:56:17.

did ministers gave to the bdnefit for UK supply chains? Peopld in

:56:18.:56:21.

Corby will be very pleased with Heathrow's commitment to usd British

:56:22.:56:25.

Steel because that will be good for steel jobs in my town. I was very

:56:26.:56:33.

pleased with that undertaking. I think inevitably Heathrow whll want

:56:34.:56:41.

to use supply chains throughout the eye could kingdom and I hopd Corby

:56:42.:56:46.

will be one of the benefici`ries. My honourable friend the member for

:56:47.:56:49.

Richmond has warned us that notwithstanding a decision taken by

:56:50.:56:53.

this house it will be prevented from being implemented by proceedings in

:56:54.:56:57.

courts elsewhere. As my right honourable friend considered any

:56:58.:57:03.

legislative remedy to prevent that notwithstanding the fact he's

:57:04.:57:06.

already told us this is a ddmocracy after all? I suspect from what I've

:57:07.:57:15.

read in the newspapers therd may be some legal attempts to challenge

:57:16.:57:26.

this decision. Court cases tsually rely on this position. We understand

:57:27.:57:38.

the hurdles we have to overcome this is a right channel -- rational

:57:39.:57:47.

decision. My view is the eldcted government is there to take out

:57:48.:57:54.

careful decisions. I hope the courts will not seek to challenge that I

:57:55.:57:58.

welcome the statement by thd Minister which shows respect for the

:57:59.:58:03.

workings of the Davies Commhssion, which had previously rejectdd the

:58:04.:58:11.

pie in the sky idea because of structural concerns. I thank the

:58:12.:58:15.

Minister for making the right decision on the evidence and in the

:58:16.:58:20.

national interest. I'm gratdful to my honourable friend for his

:58:21.:58:26.

comments. The commission did a first-rate job in looking at all the

:58:27.:58:30.

options. In the end it came down very clearly. You will see Sir

:58:31.:58:39.

Howard Davies emphasising this. When you set up the independent

:58:40.:58:45.

commission government should listen to that immensely carefully about

:58:46.:58:51.

what we've done. May I welcome the announcement, but could he `s sure

:58:52.:59:00.

people -- as sure people th`t the decision on Gatwick is not going to

:59:01.:59:05.

continue to like their lives? If you talk about the relief he is offering

:59:06.:59:09.

to the people of Heathrow, could he not extend that ban on night flight

:59:10.:59:14.

to Gatwick where we suffer `ll the time? I'm very aware of the issues

:59:15.:59:23.

around Gatwick, the issue of noise. I will talk about how to find the

:59:24.:59:34.

balance for residents in thd area. Today's announcement is verx much

:59:35.:59:43.

about this decision. The airport commission's view is we need one

:59:44.:59:48.

runway in the South East by 203 and that is what the government has

:59:49.:59:54.

sought to do. May I congrattlate the Secretary of State for finally

:59:55.:59:56.

making a decision on this which will be great news for Tory businesses.

:59:57.:00:06.

-- Torbay. This makes more pressing another question, the A303 routes

:00:07.:00:15.

and the decision on Stonehenge. The planning work is well under way

:00:16.:00:24.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. For ` hot airport -- central airport to

:00:25.:00:32.

benefit the whole country, regional airports need focus. How many more

:00:33.:00:37.

slots will be available to regional airports? Can I push the pohnt that

:00:38.:00:41.

landing charges must not work against internal flights? I'm very

:00:42.:00:49.

keen to insure we do not sed a big uplift in landing charges in this

:00:50.:00:54.

project. We've brought it through in a level that is affordable. It's got

:00:55.:00:58.

to be delivered in a way th`t delivers best value for everyone

:00:59.:01:03.

involved. In terms of collectivity, I'm not in a position to st`rt

:01:04.:01:07.

sending out details of numbdrs or slots or exact mechanisms. This will

:01:08.:01:18.

be binding part of what we conclude. I welcome the commitment made for

:01:19.:01:25.

regional collectivity. Not least because Heathrow flights have been

:01:26.:01:29.

increasingly popular. Would he agreed to meet with me so that we

:01:30.:01:34.

can explore how we can further the campaign to have a rail link? Albee

:01:35.:01:45.

happy -- I will be happy to have that conversation with him. It is a

:01:46.:01:54.

great pleasure to move on to the ten minute rule motion. The honourable

:01:55.:01:58.

member must find it encouraging to have paternal support so ne`rby

:01:59.:02:08.

Victoria Prentice. I do find it encouraging to have paternal,

:02:09.:02:14.

maternal and indeed filial support. I beg to move that leave big event

:02:15.:02:20.

for me to bring in a bill to make provision for mandatory consultation

:02:21.:02:23.

in relation to changes in sdrvices proposed by NHS trusts and health

:02:24.:02:29.

care commissioning authorithes and connected purposes. This bill is the

:02:30.:02:34.

result of our experience in Oxford this summer. During this, the

:02:35.:02:39.

foundation trust suspended consultant led maternity services at

:02:40.:02:46.

our local General Hospital with no warning and no consultation. The

:02:47.:02:52.

gift was a -- the hospital was a gifted to the people of Banbury in

:02:53.:02:58.

1872. It serves a constituency of 180 people. The patients ard spread

:02:59.:03:08.

across six parliamentary constituencies covering a l`rge

:03:09.:03:13.

rural hinterland in some of the most private areas of Oxfordshird. For

:03:14.:03:19.

generations of my family have been treated here. -- four. I'm proud of

:03:20.:03:26.

my local hospital and feel passionate about keeping actte

:03:27.:03:32.

services there. Our unit was small by those standards. It was

:03:33.:03:36.

well-regarded medically and by the families that chose it. Despite the

:03:37.:03:40.

fine reputation it has been under threat for as long as I can

:03:41.:03:45.

remember. The first speech H made at primary school was about saving

:03:46.:03:50.

maternity at this hospital. The last major threat we faced was in 20 8

:03:51.:03:58.

when my predecessor, the former Prime Minister and a passionate

:03:59.:04:03.

group fought to save the hospital. At that time the matter was given to

:04:04.:04:10.

an independent panel who looked at the evidence in considerabld detail

:04:11.:04:14.

and concluded that there ard major concerns over whether such ` large

:04:15.:04:19.

unit is that proposed at thd John Radcliffe would be safe or

:04:20.:04:23.

sustainable. There are suffhcient concerns about ambulance provision

:04:24.:04:28.

and the transfer of very sick babies from Banbury to Oxford call into

:04:29.:04:31.

question the safety of what is being proposed. After this we thotght the

:04:32.:04:37.

fight was over for some considerable time. How wrong we were. On the 20th

:04:38.:04:44.

of July I was invited to wh`t seemed to be a routine meeting with the

:04:45.:04:49.

trust. I ask a member of st`ff to go. No other members of Parliament

:04:50.:04:55.

were asked to go. I was horrified to hear the report. The trust had

:04:56.:04:59.

failed to recruit sufficient obstetricians and it would be

:05:00.:05:02.

downgraded as an emergency. There would be no consultation on the 31st

:05:03.:05:08.

of August. The trust board `pproved this. Obstetricians left and we

:05:09.:05:14.

became a midwife unit. Colldagues know that I am with good re`son

:05:15.:05:20.

passionate about maternal and perinatal safety. Nevertheldss I

:05:21.:05:24.

accept most deliveries, these are the safe places to be. That is the

:05:25.:05:35.

nub of our problem. If a wolan changes her mind about having an

:05:36.:05:38.

epidural our labouring mothdrs will be transferred by ambulance to

:05:39.:05:44.

Oxford. It is 23 miles. The average time taken in a blue light `mbulance

:05:45.:05:50.

will be between 30 and 45 mhnutes. The traffic is dreadful. Thd traffic

:05:51.:05:57.

is unpredictable. Many of mx constituents go to enormous lengths

:05:58.:06:00.

to avoid driving into Oxford. Guidelines make clear that when an

:06:01.:06:07.

emergency Caesarean needs to take place it must be done within 30

:06:08.:06:11.

minutes. Once you factor in transport time this would bd quite

:06:12.:06:22.

impossible. The problem is, some will not make it in time. Clearly

:06:23.:06:27.

most will not deliver in Banbury. In the last three weeks there have been

:06:28.:06:30.

12 births and order narrowlx there would be 90. -- order narrowly -

:06:31.:06:43.

normally. Many of them live up to one hour away. I worry about these

:06:44.:06:47.

women and the babies that whll be borne by the side of the ro`d. I

:06:48.:06:51.

cannot imagine the situation of women who do not own a car. The

:06:52.:06:57.

journey by public transport is virtually impossible. I've

:06:58.:07:04.

repeatedly asked for risk assessments and receive nothing

:07:05.:07:11.

There is an alarming number of high risk factors including transfer

:07:12.:07:14.

time, ambulance provision and the ability of them to cope with

:07:15.:07:27.

additional berths. The unit should have been staffed by locals and

:07:28.:07:40.

professionals there was an emergency, I was told, whether

:07:41.:07:44.

clinical research Bagram had been deemed... Enquiries are madd about

:07:45.:07:52.

timely efforts to recruit. @s a new MP, on meeting the Chief Exdcutive I

:07:53.:07:57.

would have expected this problem to be flagged and welcomed the chance

:07:58.:08:01.

to try to solve the problem as my constituents are now doing, offering

:08:02.:08:04.

discounted housing, school fees and even free beer to those who apply to

:08:05.:08:11.

be obstetricians. My constituents are fearful and angry. We'vd had a

:08:12.:08:20.

summer of protest. Many are against the suspension and have complained

:08:21.:08:28.

furiously that the consultation was taken over the school holid`ys. I

:08:29.:08:31.

have sympathy for those who believe this is a wider conspiracy to

:08:32.:08:37.

downgrade our local hospital. For many years a vociferous contingent

:08:38.:08:40.

of the trust have wanted to centralise services in Oxford and

:08:41.:08:43.

use our site for outpatient services. One of the options

:08:44.:08:47.

proposed in the forthcoming sustainability plan is for dxactly

:08:48.:08:54.

that. Maternity services wotld become midwife led. We fear the

:08:55.:08:59.

situation this summer has bden engineered in order to make this a

:09:00.:09:10.

figure, Lee. -- to make this a fait accompli. I like to believe the best

:09:11.:09:14.

of our public servers but I feel let down by the way we've been treated,

:09:15.:09:18.

by the lack of good managemdnt, transparency or evidence -b`sed

:09:19.:09:22.

decision-making. I'm concerned without changes to the law other

:09:23.:09:27.

areas could suffer like we have The trust holds all the cards. Only it

:09:28.:09:32.

has the ability to manipulate the number of births. We have no control

:09:33.:09:40.

over recruitment. Only they have the ability to make the post is

:09:41.:09:45.

attractive. The clinical commissioning group has been notable

:09:46.:09:51.

for their silence. This bill would increase the credibility of local

:09:52.:09:57.

authorities. -- increase accountability. Medical consortiums

:09:58.:10:02.

are not a replacement for ptblic consultation. The doctor max know

:10:03.:10:08.

best but only when he has lhstened to the patient. Local

:10:09.:10:12.

decision-making can work but only with democratic accountabilhty. We

:10:13.:10:19.

in the surrounding area rem`in hopeful that our unit will reopen

:10:20.:10:26.

next March when sufficient obstetricians have been recruited.

:10:27.:10:30.

In the meantime we further the safety -- fear for the safety of

:10:31.:10:37.

mothers and babies. The question is that the honourable member have

:10:38.:10:42.

leave to bring in the Bill. As many as would say I, I think the eyes

:10:43.:10:51.

have it who will appear in bringing the bill? David McIntosh, Alex Chok,

:10:52.:10:57.

Nigel Huddleston, will commdnce Adie Allen, Maria Caulfield, Harriet

:10:58.:11:06.

Harman, Robert Coutts, Mr D`vid Hanson and myself.

:11:07.:11:20.

National Health Service provision local consultation bill. Second

:11:21.:11:47.

reading what day? Friday thd 27th of January. Here, here. The cldrk will

:11:48.:11:56.

now proceed to read the orddrs of the day. Criminal finances Bill

:11:57.:11:59.

second reading. Good afternoon. I beg to move that

:12:00.:12:12.

this bill now be read a second time for the first may I through you

:12:13.:12:16.

Madam Deputy Speaker, apologise under half of my right honotrable

:12:17.:12:22.

friend, the Home Secretary. She is detained on departmental business

:12:23.:12:24.

pertaining to national security and has asked me to open the second

:12:25.:12:29.

reading debate. Madam Deputx Speaker, both terrorism and serious

:12:30.:12:33.

and organised crime pose a real threat to the United Kingdol. Those

:12:34.:12:37.

involved in terrorist activhties in danger domestic security and

:12:38.:12:41.

overseas interests. If terrorism is the greatest threat we face, serious

:12:42.:12:46.

criminality argue because of the greatest harm, costing the Tnited

:12:47.:12:52.

Kingdom at least ?24 billion annually, causing loss of lhfe and

:12:53.:12:54.

depriving people of prosperhty and security. Honourable members must

:12:55.:12:58.

not doubt the scale of the problem. It damages the economy and community

:12:59.:13:03.

's it impacts on real peopld, whether your grandparent behng

:13:04.:13:06.

scammed out of life savings, the trader weapons which enabled the

:13:07.:13:09.

type of marauding firearms `ttacks we have seen in Paris, smuggling

:13:10.:13:17.

drugs or organising of trafficking of young women. These impact on the

:13:18.:13:21.

most vulnerable in society for that they ruin the lives of real people.

:13:22.:13:25.

This is part of a truly global issue. As David Cameron has said,

:13:26.:13:30.

international corruption is one of the greatest enemies of progress in

:13:31.:13:34.

our time but it is the cancdr at the heart of so many of the world's

:13:35.:13:40.

Financial profit is at the heart of all forms of serious and organised

:13:41.:13:45.

crime. The UK drug trade is estimated to generate ?4 billion in

:13:46.:13:50.

revenue. It is estimated ?10 billion is lost in tax evasion and criminal

:13:51.:13:58.

attacks against the tax system. The quote you made from the forler Prime

:13:59.:14:02.

Minister, the thrust of the bill. One of the great concerns for

:14:03.:14:06.

Christian Aid if the bill does not extend or legislate for Crown

:14:07.:14:09.

dependencies of overseas territories. Can I ask the linister

:14:10.:14:14.

to respond to that in consideration of a second reading? This bhll does

:14:15.:14:19.

extend, some of the offences in here, and some other powers, to

:14:20.:14:23.

cover extra territorial extdnt which will go a considerable way to get

:14:24.:14:27.

into the bottom of money-latndering. Whether that is carried out here

:14:28.:14:34.

elsewhere around the world ht goes some way to make sure is soleone

:14:35.:14:37.

invades tax overseas, and overseas tax, just because it is not invading

:14:38.:14:40.

our tax or robbing another country we would like to take action against

:14:41.:14:44.

those individuals. It goes some way to getting there. I will progress on

:14:45.:14:48.

a no doubt throughout the ddbate members will be able to makd their

:14:49.:14:53.

points. Many criminals live in plain sight, untouched by law enforcement

:14:54.:14:58.

agencies. They reap the bendfits by money-laundering, moving, hhding and

:14:59.:15:01.

using the proceeds of their crimes to fund their lifestyles and enable

:15:02.:15:06.

further criminality. It is essentially that the annual amount

:15:07.:15:10.

of money-laundering globallx manse to $1.6 trillion. The National crime

:15:11.:15:14.

agency assesses many billions of pounds are laundered into or through

:15:15.:15:18.

the United Kingdom as a restlt of international corruption. Wd should

:15:19.:15:27.

be proud of the UK's status as a global centre. This is one of the

:15:28.:15:31.

best places in the world to do business. We must recognise the size

:15:32.:15:38.

of our sector and open economy attracts the London propertx market

:15:39.:15:42.

and makes his country exposdd to the risk of international

:15:43.:15:44.

money-laundering. That is why the Government is taking action. To

:15:45.:15:49.

combat money-laundering and combat terrorist corruption. We ard sending

:15:50.:15:52.

a message will not stand for money-laundering or the funding of

:15:53.:15:56.

terrorism through the UK. I am extremely grateful to the Mhnister

:15:57.:16:01.

for giving way. I agree with his remarks. I would like to pursue

:16:02.:16:05.

further the issue that has been raised by the right honourable

:16:06.:16:12.

member. Does the minister agree with me that transparency is absolutely

:16:13.:16:16.

key to trying to tackle somd of the corruption and money-laundering that

:16:17.:16:19.

takes place question if he does agree, why is he not using this bill

:16:20.:16:25.

to ensure the overseas charhties and Crown dependencies would cole under

:16:26.:16:29.

our jurisdiction to publish publicly available registers of beneficial

:16:30.:16:35.

ownership? I am grateful for that point. I do agree that transparency

:16:36.:16:39.

is one of the steps along that path to make sure we tackle corrtption

:16:40.:16:43.

and money-laundering. That hs why the Prime Minister said --

:16:44.:16:52.

reaffirmed that commitment. Hopefully to make sure that by the

:16:53.:16:57.

end of this year and into ndxt there will be that transparency. There'll

:16:58.:17:03.

be amount of public legislature for benefit and also automatic

:17:04.:17:07.

information exchange between our tax authorities and those dependencies

:17:08.:17:10.

so people hiding tax from us, we will be able to have access from

:17:11.:17:15.

that, to that information. Our law enforcement agencies will sdt about

:17:16.:17:19.

tackling it for that this bhll is part of that process. The kdy

:17:20.:17:23.

element of this approach is going to be making sure we work with the

:17:24.:17:26.

private sector to make the TK are more hostile place for thosd who use

:17:27.:17:35.

or hide the proceeds of crile. Prosecuting corporations for failing

:17:36.:17:40.

to execute economic crimes was expected to be a big part of this.

:17:41.:17:43.

It seems, despite government indications it would providd

:17:44.:17:53.

provisions to such effect, ht is not part of the bill. Could the minister

:17:54.:17:56.

claiming he has chosen not to include such cautions? Yes. I will

:17:57.:18:02.

come to that part of the bill later. It is our intention to prosdcute

:18:03.:18:08.

those corporate bodies allowing their companies to facilitate tax

:18:09.:18:12.

evasion. That is currently, under the current system and individual

:18:13.:18:15.

can be prosecuted for evading tax but also, if someone within a

:18:16.:18:20.

company that it -- facilitates that evasion they can be prosecuted. It

:18:21.:18:24.

is very hard to prosecute the corporate body and we are intending

:18:25.:18:27.

to do that in our bill. If xou read the building will see how wd can do

:18:28.:18:31.

that. Not only to a corporate body here in the UK but if the company as

:18:32.:18:37.

an overseas company we will go after them in the same extraterritorial

:18:38.:18:42.

way we do. Can I congratulate the minister on his appointment as a

:18:43.:18:46.

minister in the Home Office? In evidence to Parliament earlher this

:18:47.:18:49.

year, the private sector made it very clear that they are trxing to

:18:50.:18:55.

cooperate with the Government. There were 381,000 suspicious acthvity

:18:56.:19:01.

reports made under the Elmer system. However, only 20,000 could be looked

:19:02.:19:05.

into. What support is he giving to the National crime agency to allow

:19:06.:19:09.

them to have a better systel in order to deal with these reports? I

:19:10.:19:14.

grateful to the honourable gentleman and for his kind comments about my

:19:15.:19:23.

deployment. Some of the regtlators or bodies we deal with say we would

:19:24.:19:28.

like to pass more to you but we feel we are not protected from sharing

:19:29.:19:31.

wider information. First of all we are going to remove those b`rriers

:19:32.:19:35.

so that the National crime `gency will be able to see the full chain

:19:36.:19:41.

of a financial instruction for example. Also, we are going to

:19:42.:19:45.

empower them with a stronger disclosure order so they can force

:19:46.:19:48.

people. They can apply for `n order to force people to release

:19:49.:19:53.

documentation or comply with questions about a particular

:19:54.:19:56.

transaction that currently only exists in the Proceeds of Crime Act

:19:57.:20:01.

where it covers fraud. We c`n now do this for money-laundering. Thirdly,

:20:02.:20:05.

what we are going to do with this is to make sure that the time limit for

:20:06.:20:10.

a suspicious activity report, we can extend it. At the moment thdre is a

:20:11.:20:14.

one-off extension up to 31 days Actually we would like to do that

:20:15.:20:19.

longer, up to I think six months, so the National crime agency h`ve much

:20:20.:20:22.

longer to investigate it. Vdry full answer. The real problem is that the

:20:23.:20:27.

system is old. The system ndeds to be replaced and renewed. Is he

:20:28.:20:32.

giving the National crime agency the additional resources to pay for the

:20:33.:20:39.

new system, to do all the things he is suggesting? Without a new system,

:20:40.:20:47.

20,000 does not going to 380,00 ? He is right. 381,000 referrals is a

:20:48.:20:51.

hefty amount to get through. You need to make sure there is time to

:20:52.:20:54.

get through them full stop we do not want to see is the private sector,

:20:55.:20:59.

by default, making a suspichous activity report. If we can remove

:21:00.:21:03.

those excuses about why thex can't get to the bottom of the tr`nsaction

:21:04.:21:07.

before they pass it on, we `lso think that will make sure they pass

:21:08.:21:10.

on proper suspicious activities rather than once they can actually

:21:11.:21:14.

satisfy themselves that there is not such a problem. That goes some way,

:21:15.:21:20.

cuts out some of the referr`ls. I am grateful to the Minister for giving

:21:21.:21:23.

way. He has been very generous. Does that illustration he has just given

:21:24.:21:30.

not actually illustrate what prosecutors are up against here and

:21:31.:21:34.

the complexity of these casds? That is why compulsion for transparency

:21:35.:21:40.

is needed and puts prosecutors on the front foot. He will look at this

:21:41.:21:47.

matter again that has already been raised as the bill progressds. I can

:21:48.:21:50.

assure the right honourable gentleman that throughout the

:21:51.:21:53.

passage of the bill and aftdr it, it is part of a longer process. We will

:21:54.:21:56.

make sure that we will conthnue to look at where we can't get hold of

:21:57.:22:00.

the information we need to prosecute people that are delivered e`ch

:22:01.:22:03.

trying to evade tax but also people who are trying to launder money as

:22:04.:22:10.

well. I think, we are in... I think it is the right thing is th`t this

:22:11.:22:16.

is part of the process. Manx of these powers, including the

:22:17.:22:19.

unexplained wealth order, which gives us the benefit of the doubt

:22:20.:22:22.

but that is on to us to say, we think you are linked to serhous

:22:23.:22:27.

organised crime. You explain to us or your money is from. At the very

:22:28.:22:30.

least that will get over sole of those hurdles about not being

:22:31.:22:33.

awarded at the bottom of thd information in that process. That is

:22:34.:22:38.

one of the steps that I hopd the right honourable member will support

:22:39.:22:42.

of the bill goes through. I thank my honourable friend for giving way and

:22:43.:22:46.

welcome him to his place as security minister, which is much desdrved.

:22:47.:22:51.

Can I just ask about is easher and forfeiture powers. Previous

:22:52.:22:54.

legislation in this area has not been entirely successful in ensuring

:22:55.:22:59.

the assets of criminals are seized. Can he explain to the Has whder

:23:00.:23:03.

provisions in this bill will make a difference so we make sure we can

:23:04.:23:06.

grab the money of the criminal so they cannot carry on with their

:23:07.:23:11.

ignoble enterprises? Thank xou. Lee on gentleman is right. In the past

:23:12.:23:18.

it has been a challenge. -- the honourable gentleman. They have put

:23:19.:23:25.

the proceeds into things like fast cars, paintings, or betting slips.

:23:26.:23:30.

The Government is keen we look at that. First of all, I'd think we can

:23:31.:23:35.

broaden it out and make surd that when they are crafty, we ard crafty

:23:36.:23:39.

as well and hopefully take that This government has done more to

:23:40.:23:44.

tackle money-laundering and terrorist financing. More assets

:23:45.:23:49.

have been recovered from crhminals. The money recovered in 2015/16 and

:23:50.:23:53.

hundreds of millions frozen and put beyond the reach of criminals. The

:23:54.:24:02.

setup aid task force doing short a joined up approach. In an

:24:03.:24:05.

anti-corruption Summit by Bhll capacity with overseas partners It

:24:06.:24:09.

is important to note that wd are already doing there. The UK returned

:24:10.:24:14.

?28 million to Macau in 2014 which were the proceeds of corruption

:24:15.:24:20.

which was laundered in the TK for the latter is a concrete ex`mple of

:24:21.:24:23.

us giving back money to those countries that have been robbed by

:24:24.:24:27.

crooks, who have used Britahn to launder it or make the monex in this

:24:28.:24:31.

jurisdiction. I think I would like to see more of that for it go

:24:32.:24:36.

further. There is a need for legislation. They need to btild on

:24:37.:24:40.

the process of the anti-corruption Summit and to find out wherd we were

:24:41.:24:43.

still vulnerable. In October 20 5 the Government published thd

:24:44.:24:49.

National risk assessment for money laundering and terrorist financing

:24:50.:24:52.

identifying areas where this can be strengthened. Our response, the

:24:53.:24:57.

action plan for anti money laundering and counterterrorist

:24:58.:24:59.

finance was published in April of this year and represents a

:25:00.:25:04.

significant change. The crilinal finance bill will give effect to key

:25:05.:25:11.

elements of that action plan. It will significantly enhance the

:25:12.:25:14.

capability of UK law enforcdment to tackle money-laundering and recover

:25:15.:25:18.

the proceeds of crime. It whll strengthen the relationship between

:25:19.:25:21.

public and private sectors `nd will combat the financing of terrorism.

:25:22.:25:25.

Part one of the bill contains a number of measures which amdnd the

:25:26.:25:31.

proceeds. This includes the creation of unexplained wealth orders for the

:25:32.:25:34.

criminals declare themselves penniless yet control millions of

:25:35.:25:38.

pounds. Law enforcement agencies may suspect assets are the praises of

:25:39.:25:41.

international corruption but are unable to freeze or cover them,

:25:42.:25:45.

often because they cannot rdly on for cooperation with other

:25:46.:25:47.

jurisdictions to obtain evidence. The court will be able to m`ke an

:25:48.:25:53.

unexpected wealth order, repuiring an individual organisations affected

:25:54.:25:55.

of association with serious commonality to expand the origin of

:25:56.:25:59.

assets. Where they appear to be disproportionate to their known

:26:00.:26:02.

income. If that person does not respond, this may enable thd

:26:03.:26:06.

property to be recovered under existing civil recovery powdrs. Part

:26:07.:26:11.

one chapter one also extends the use of disclosure orders allowing a law

:26:12.:26:14.

enforcement officer to requhre someone with relevant inforlation to

:26:15.:26:19.

answer questions as part of an investigation. These orders are

:26:20.:26:23.

already in use for civil recovery and confiscation investigathons and

:26:24.:26:25.

will be available for money-laundering cases.

:26:26.:26:29.

Chapter two will enhance thd process by which private sector companies

:26:30.:26:36.

report suspected money-laundering, the suspicious activities rdport, or

:26:37.:26:42.

SARs regime. Where it is suspected they make commit a money-latndering

:26:43.:26:53.

scheme, they are obliged to submit a SAR to inform the decision. The bill

:26:54.:26:57.

will give law enforcement agencies more time to investigate thdse

:26:58.:27:00.

suspicious transactions, whhch require consent, and the NC@ extra

:27:01.:27:06.

powers to get further inforlation from companies to conduct whde and

:27:07.:27:10.

analysis. The bill will also provide a gateway for the sharing of

:27:11.:27:14.

information between regulatdd companies subject to appropriate

:27:15.:27:19.

oversight, helping them to build a broader picture of suspected

:27:20.:27:22.

money-laundering. This has been piloted through a programme known as

:27:23.:27:25.

the joint money-laundering intelligence task force. In 12

:27:26.:27:31.

months from fabric 2015, thhs task force led to 11 arrests, Thd Imps

:27:32.:27:37.

restraint of over half ?1 mhllion, and the identification of 1700 bank

:27:38.:27:40.

accounts linked to criminal activity. We want to build on that

:27:41.:27:46.

by providing legal certaintx that companies can share information for

:27:47.:27:48.

the purpose of detecting serious crime. Part one chapter thrde will

:27:49.:27:55.

improve the ability of law enforcement agencies to recover the

:27:56.:28:00.

proceeds of crime. There ard powers to confiscate cash, but crilinals

:28:01.:28:06.

hold proceeds in other forms, and we must adapt. The types of assets

:28:07.:28:10.

recovered are listed on the face of the bill, so that Parliament can

:28:11.:28:15.

scrutinise its potential usd. We will consult operational partners on

:28:16.:28:18.

requirements, and I suspect we will bring forward a Government `mendment

:28:19.:28:22.

to extend this list to incltde gambling slips and tokens. These are

:28:23.:28:28.

often used by organised crilinals to launder ill gotten gains. I hope

:28:29.:28:31.

that such an amendment will be supported on a cross-party basis.

:28:32.:28:36.

The rest of part one extends to existing powers over other

:28:37.:28:42.

organisations, including HMRC and the Financial Conduct Authority and

:28:43.:28:49.

also makes a range of measures to the Proceeds of Crime Act. The

:28:50.:28:54.

terror threat is real and growing. If we are to combat this threat we

:28:55.:28:58.

must cut off the funding streams that enable terrorist relatdd

:28:59.:29:03.

activity. The 2015 national risk assessment identified two kdy

:29:04.:29:10.

weaknesses. Money, service, businesses and cash career hn the

:29:11.:29:14.

private sector, and the abuse of the charitable sector. To combat these

:29:15.:29:17.

issues, part two will make changes to powers to terrorist finance cases

:29:18.:29:22.

by mirroring many of the provisions in the bill such as SARs and

:29:23.:29:28.

compensation powers so that they are also available under the terrorism

:29:29.:29:35.

act 2000. And part three will deliver on the commitment to make it

:29:36.:29:38.

a crime of companies fail to put in place measures to stop economic

:29:39.:29:42.

crime such as tax evasion. @t present, if an individual innovator

:29:43.:29:48.

tax, the individual taxpayer will have committed a crime, and those

:29:49.:29:52.

facilitating it can also be prosecuted. But it is very difficult

:29:53.:29:55.

and often impossible to hold the corporate entity to account. This

:29:56.:30:00.

needs to change. That is whx we are creating two new offences rdlating

:30:01.:30:09.

to tax evasion, one in relation to UK taxes, the other in relation to

:30:10.:30:14.

tax owed to other countries. It cannot be right that a business

:30:15.:30:18.

operating in the UK can esc`pe criminal liability in blue because

:30:19.:30:20.

of the tax losses suffered by another country rather than the UK.

:30:21.:30:25.

The new offence in relation to foreign taxes will be particularly

:30:26.:30:31.

beneficial in combating fratd in foreign countries. Banks,

:30:32.:30:39.

accountants, legal practices, everyone is clear of the nedd to

:30:40.:30:42.

take responsibility for enstring the highest sub or standards colpliant

:30:43.:30:46.

in this area, and as I have said, tax evasion and corruption hn the

:30:47.:30:51.

developing world are key contributors to global poverty, and

:30:52.:30:55.

those crimes are frequent are committed by companies in other

:30:56.:31:02.

jurisdictions. The UK's fin`ncial sector should lead on tacklhng

:31:03.:31:08.

financial corruption. Madamd Deputy Speaker, the Government is committed

:31:09.:31:13.

to reducing the burden on btsiness which can make it harder for

:31:14.:31:16.

companies to focus on real risk The measures in the bill were ddveloped

:31:17.:31:20.

in close partnership with l`w enforcement agencies and thd

:31:21.:31:23.

regulated sector, including major financial institutions, as well as

:31:24.:31:29.

key representatives. With the Minister agree with me that whilst I

:31:30.:31:32.

support the bill there is no point in legislating if the agenches who

:31:33.:31:37.

are tasked with enforcing this legislation don't have the resources

:31:38.:31:41.

to do it? For example, sincd the creation of the OFS side, t`lking to

:31:42.:31:46.

lawyers who work in white-collar crime, there has been no enforcement

:31:47.:31:52.

whatsoever, so all of us who want to support this bill would likd to hear

:31:53.:31:55.

that there will be resources to match the good intent. I am grateful

:31:56.:32:02.

to the honourable gentleman. I have been visiting crime centres up and

:32:03.:32:08.

down the country, and they `ll say that their barrier to getting

:32:09.:32:13.

further with some of these problems is not the resource issue, they all

:32:14.:32:16.

say to me that their barrier has been the ability to find thd cash,

:32:17.:32:21.

Steve Cash and sees it, and I think those three things are incrddibly

:32:22.:32:25.

important. We can put all the resources into the world in our law

:32:26.:32:29.

enforcement agencies, but if they don't have the power at the end of

:32:30.:32:33.

the day to take back stolen assets, it won't make a difference. The sick

:32:34.:32:39.

thing that struck me doing this job is that I thought I knew a bit about

:32:40.:32:46.

terrorism, but what has shocked me is the weight and strength of

:32:47.:32:50.

organised crime across the Tnited Kingdom, to see the depth of it and

:32:51.:32:54.

how it affects my communitids in the north-west and how close it comes to

:32:55.:32:58.

all of us, it takes your brdath away, and I am determined that not

:32:59.:33:04.

only the guys at the top, the Mr bigs get sent to jail for as long as

:33:05.:33:07.

possible, but those people who consider themselves removed from it,

:33:08.:33:13.

the facilitators, the white collar smoothies who launder the money into

:33:14.:33:16.

properties, that they also face their time in court, and I'l

:33:17.:33:22.

determined to do that, becatse they are the people who contribute to the

:33:23.:33:25.

message that there is a perlissive society and it is OK to be

:33:26.:33:30.

associated with crime, and they are the people that helped the nasty is

:33:31.:33:35.

put a gloss on themselves, `nd that is what I am determined to do. I

:33:36.:33:44.

will use this bill to try and build momentum in the non-regulatdd

:33:45.:33:48.

sector. I will be asking thd regulators estate agents accountants

:33:49.:33:52.

about what they are doing to play their part, and why is it that if we

:33:53.:33:56.

can change the powers here, if their members get in trouble, what are

:33:57.:34:00.

they going to do to hold thdm to account? It is important th`t the

:34:01.:34:05.

legislation is only one part of this, and I hope that everyone will

:34:06.:34:09.

send out the message that there is the more to do, and that those

:34:10.:34:14.

people who facilitate other once also coming after. I thank ly normal

:34:15.:34:21.

friend forgiving way again, he has been generous. Would he agrde it is

:34:22.:34:26.

not just a question of laws that of culture of the organisations as

:34:27.:34:34.

well? Previous iterations of the NCA all seem to be more culturally

:34:35.:34:39.

bureaucracies, the NCA seems to be more intelligence led and to have

:34:40.:34:42.

officials at the top who ard more intelligence operatives, and it

:34:43.:34:48.

seems to me from everything I see that the NCA is far more vigorous at

:34:49.:34:51.

chasing down the intelligence, which is where you really need to be? The

:34:52.:35:00.

National Crime Agency does have the big Trinity is on this, and I see a

:35:01.:35:03.

professional organisation ddtermined to tackle the threat that it faces,

:35:04.:35:09.

or that we face. But also, the complement to the police forces up

:35:10.:35:13.

and down the country, who h`ve put past and put away old-fashioned

:35:14.:35:20.

territorial boundaries, but organised crime used to exploit and

:35:21.:35:22.

have been determined to work together. Police Scotland and in our

:35:23.:35:27.

area is regional organised crime, all the other regions, when you go

:35:28.:35:32.

there you see police forces all sitting around the same table

:35:33.:35:36.

working together for their own ends, led by intelligence, deciding on

:35:37.:35:40.

what is their priority, sharing capabilities and getting on with it

:35:41.:35:43.

rather than focusing on thehr smaller areas, and I think those two

:35:44.:35:48.

issues together, the NCA and the regional organised crime unht have

:35:49.:35:52.

given us an impetus, and thd results. To speak for themsdlves. I

:35:53.:35:58.

can ensure that the provisions will be subject to safeguards and

:35:59.:36:04.

oversight so that they can only be used when necessary. There hs an

:36:05.:36:09.

option for a legislative proposals to institute the action plan. I am

:36:10.:36:16.

grateful to all those that responded to the consultation. There were

:36:17.:36:21.

inevitably some additional pieces of statutory guidance to underpin the

:36:22.:36:25.

measures. We will seek whether possible to make this avail`ble to

:36:26.:36:29.

Parliament to ensure the widest possible consultation on how the

:36:30.:36:33.

Bill will work in practice. This Bill is only part of the wider

:36:34.:36:37.

package, as I have said earlier aimed at strengthening the

:36:38.:36:39.

Government was my response to money-laundering. Our wider

:36:40.:36:45.

programme involves improving the wider regime for the regulated

:36:46.:36:52.

sector, and reforming investment in systems and processes, and further

:36:53.:36:55.

increasing our international reach, working with other governments and

:36:56.:37:01.

international organisations to crack down on money-laundering, t`x

:37:02.:37:05.

evasion and corruption. We lust ensure that the Bill and other

:37:06.:37:10.

projects have the greatest hmpact on money-laundering and financd in this

:37:11.:37:14.

country and abroad. I welcole the honourable lady, the Shadow Home

:37:15.:37:17.

Secretary, to her post, and I am pleased she has been able to meet

:37:18.:37:20.

with me since her appointment to discuss the Bill, and I am delighted

:37:21.:37:25.

to continue to meet with her and her team through the passage of this

:37:26.:37:28.

Bill to make sure that we gdt it right, and work to ensure that the

:37:29.:37:31.

whole House takes this Bill through and sends a message to crooks and

:37:32.:37:37.

criminals and facilitators that we will not tolerate it. I hopd that

:37:38.:37:42.

she and her colleagues along with the SNP benches will agree that

:37:43.:37:45.

public interest in this leghslation is passed at the earliest

:37:46.:37:50.

opportunity, and what is hopefully a clear cross-party support. H also

:37:51.:38:00.

congratulate the member who has a wealth of experience on the home

:38:01.:38:03.

affairs committee and I look forward to discussion these issues with her

:38:04.:38:06.

at select committee. The Government is committed to protecting the

:38:07.:38:14.

security of our citizens, and we must ensure that we can vigorously

:38:15.:38:18.

pursue those who abuse it for illicit means. That is what bills

:38:19.:38:22.

bill will do, and I commend it to the House. The question is that the

:38:23.:38:33.

Bill will now be read a second time. Diane Abbott. Madame Deputy Speaker,

:38:34.:38:41.

if you walk around London's most expensive neighbourhoods, you will

:38:42.:38:43.

see house after house that hs dark every night. Someone have no lights

:38:44.:38:48.

on because the owners are ott. Many more will have no lights on because

:38:49.:38:53.

they have been bought as investments, and lie empty lost of

:38:54.:38:57.

the time. But some of the most expensive properties in the capital

:38:58.:39:03.

are an occupied because thex have been bought solely for the purpose

:39:04.:39:11.

of laundering dirty money. So in 2016, money-laundering is something

:39:12.:39:14.

that is not just happening hn accountancy offices or in the back

:39:15.:39:19.

rooms of banks. It is happening in the plain sight of ordinary

:39:20.:39:28.

Londoners, because we see some of the most expensive domestic

:39:29.:39:30.

properties in the world change hands, but remain mysteriously and

:39:31.:39:37.

persistently empty. So we wdlcome this Bill, brought in with the

:39:38.:39:40.

express purpose of introduchng new powers and safeguards to improve the

:39:41.:39:51.

Government's capability of tackling money-laundering and terrorhst

:39:52.:39:53.

financing. I want to make it clear that in principle on this shde, we

:39:54.:39:59.

support the aims of the Bill. We support it occurs it is vit`l to do

:40:00.:40:06.

as much as we can to bear down on illegal activity, and that hncludes

:40:07.:40:11.

the enablers of illegal acthvities, the lawyers, accountants, estate

:40:12.:40:16.

agents. We support it because public opinion, partly encouraged by the

:40:17.:40:20.

work of the Public Accounts Committee on the distinguished past

:40:21.:40:24.

and present leadership, public opinion rightly demands that

:40:25.:40:27.

politicians do more to stop tax evasion, but we also support this

:40:28.:40:31.

bill because some of the poorest countries in the world are the ones

:40:32.:40:36.

that have their treasuries denuded by money-laundering. If herd in the

:40:37.:40:42.

UK, which is often described as one of the money-laundering centres of

:40:43.:40:46.

the world, we could act effdctively against money-laundering, the people

:40:47.:40:51.

who would benefit would not just be our own tax authorities, but the

:40:52.:40:55.

populations of those countrhes in the global South from which some of

:40:56.:41:03.

this money has been looted. But we would wish to ascertain that the

:41:04.:41:08.

provisions of this Bill acttally work, and impact in reality on the

:41:09.:41:13.

harms the Minister has set out, and we will weigh carefully the civil

:41:14.:41:17.

liberties implications of its provisions. Furthermore, we will

:41:18.:41:22.

want assurances that the Government agencies tasked with implemdnting

:41:23.:41:28.

the provisions of the legislation will have all the resources and

:41:29.:41:30.

support they need. It is on the point of resources

:41:31.:41:41.

which has been raised. Desphte the very effective way in which the

:41:42.:41:44.

minister put his case he did not answer my question. That was, when

:41:45.:41:48.

is the National crime agencx going to get a new computer systel? When

:41:49.:41:54.

is Alma going to be renewed, to allow them to be able to look

:41:55.:41:59.

through these suspicious activity reports. It is a system deshgned for

:42:00.:42:05.

20,000, currently dealing whth 385,000 complaints? We need a new

:42:06.:42:11.

computer system to do what the minister and my honourable friend

:42:12.:42:15.

want this bill to achieve. H am grateful to my honourable friend for

:42:16.:42:19.

that very important intervention. I can assure the minister, if he won't

:42:20.:42:25.

give a clear applied to the member for Leicester to his question here

:42:26.:42:31.

on the floor of the House, we will pursue this issue in committee. The

:42:32.:42:35.

minister said earlier that loney was not the main obstacle to pursuing

:42:36.:42:42.

the money-laundering is and the criminal actors but it surely cannot

:42:43.:42:49.

help when agencies like the National crime agency are experiencing cuts.

:42:50.:42:53.

The House of Commons home affairs select committee produced an

:42:54.:42:59.

important report on the proceeds of crime in June. And I am inddbted to

:43:00.:43:04.

the chair and the committee as a whole for their investigatory remark

:43:05.:43:11.

-- work. Money laundering t`kes many complicated forms. These range from

:43:12.:43:16.

complex financial vehicles `nd activity in tax havens around the

:43:17.:43:19.

world to property investment in London and high value jewellery I

:43:20.:43:23.

share the select committee's astonishment that over a million

:43:24.:43:28.

that is not that of over a lillion property transactions last xear

:43:29.:43:34.

only 335 words deemed to be suspicious. I also agree with the

:43:35.:43:40.

select committee's conclusion that the supervision of the propdrty

:43:41.:43:44.

market has been totally inadequate and has, laid out the welcole mat

:43:45.:43:53.

for the money-laundering. The select committee report also made the

:43:54.:43:58.

important point that it is `ll too easy for people who want to launder

:43:59.:44:04.

money to buy property in London let it out in London's high-valte

:44:05.:44:10.

lettings market, and then t`ke in clean money in perpetuity. Overall,

:44:11.:44:15.

the National Crime Agency bdlieves up to 100 billion of crimin`l funds

:44:16.:44:19.

could be part of the UK each year in the form of property, luxurx cars,

:44:20.:44:26.

art and jewellery. Transpardncy International say there are hundreds

:44:27.:44:30.

of properties in the UK that are stronger suspected to have been

:44:31.:44:35.

acquired with the proceeds of corruption. Land Registry fhgures

:44:36.:44:40.

show UK real estate worth more than 170 billion is held by more than

:44:41.:44:48.

30,000 tax haven companies. I do not argue that there can never be a

:44:49.:44:53.

legitimate reason for holding UK real estate in a tax haven company

:44:54.:44:58.

but I do believe that all too often, what we are seeing, could wdll be

:44:59.:45:10.

illicit activity. As a formdr tax officer, the reason these companies

:45:11.:45:15.

and tax havens only UK propdrty is because it was possible to do a tax

:45:16.:45:21.

duty avoidance scheme called Ember loping under the last Labour

:45:22.:45:24.

government. Action taken by this government has put a stop to a lot

:45:25.:45:28.

of that abuse. I made a point of saying there can be legitim`te

:45:29.:45:34.

reasons for holding UK propdrty in tax haven companies and I should

:45:35.:45:39.

remind the rebel gentleman that it is not every single detail of the

:45:40.:45:45.

activity of the last Labour government that I supported. -- the

:45:46.:45:50.

honourable gentleman. Most owners of these companies hide behind

:45:51.:45:54.

anonymous trusts or nominee directors and shareholders. For

:45:55.:45:58.

instance, in a single 50 story apartment complex in London, the

:45:59.:46:05.

tower at St George wharf in Vauxhall, a stone's throw from the

:46:06.:46:10.

House, a quarter of the house are held by offshore companies. This

:46:11.:46:14.

bill hopes to close a loophole which meant that authorities were not able

:46:15.:46:18.

to seize property from overseas criminals unless the individuals are

:46:19.:46:22.

first convicted in their cotntry of origin. The orders will apply to

:46:23.:46:27.

property and other assets worth more than 100,000. If the owner fails to

:46:28.:46:31.

do straight that a home or piece of is acquired using legal sources of

:46:32.:46:37.

income, agencies will be able to seize it. On this side of the House,

:46:38.:46:42.

we would stress that for thd new law which we support in principle to be

:46:43.:46:48.

effective, agencies must be given the financial and political support

:46:49.:46:54.

to take powerful and wealthx individuals to court. Furthdrmore,

:46:55.:47:00.

there is some concern which we will explore in committee that the

:47:01.:47:06.

measures may be too widely drawn. Throughout, the safeguard for

:47:07.:47:11.

seizure orders is the reasonable suspicion of a police officdr on

:47:12.:47:15.

their own authority. This m`y be too low a bar as a safeguard ag`inst the

:47:16.:47:20.

incompetent use or abuse of state power. I am most grateful to my

:47:21.:47:25.

honourable friend and I thank her for the kind comments. Sir Bernard

:47:26.:47:31.

Hogan Howe, in evidence to the committee, suggested the crhminal

:47:32.:47:34.

law should be amended to ensure that those who had not paid a

:47:35.:47:41.

compensation order should bd subject of a second criminal offencd. Does

:47:42.:47:44.

she agree it is wrong for those who are subject to a compensation order

:47:45.:47:49.

to go to prison, finished their sentence, come out and it is still

:47:50.:47:55.

not being paid? We need to look at this very carefully indeed. I am

:47:56.:47:58.

very grateful to my honourable friend was he is right but we knew

:47:59.:48:02.

to look at this area, about people who, in effect, are able to serve

:48:03.:48:07.

perhaps a relatively short prison term but flout the compensation

:48:08.:48:15.

order. I quite take the point that my right honourable neighbotr makes

:48:16.:48:20.

but, very often, when the criminal is sentenced, along with a

:48:21.:48:26.

compensation order or a process of crime order, he is sentenced to an

:48:27.:48:30.

additional term of imprisonlent in the event he does not pay b`ck the

:48:31.:48:35.

money. Sometimes those extended sentences can be very long `nd

:48:36.:48:39.

indeed as long, or even longer, than the original sentence. Far be it

:48:40.:48:46.

from me to bandy words with the many lawyers in the chamber but H repeat,

:48:47.:48:52.

we will seek to examine the question of people flouting compensation

:48:53.:48:55.

orders as this bill goes through committee. But, overall, in relation

:48:56.:49:00.

to bearing down on money-latndering, we welcome the relevant provisions

:49:01.:49:03.

of the bill, including the unexplained wealth orders, the

:49:04.:49:08.

reform to these suspicious `ctivity reports regime, information sharing,

:49:09.:49:15.

and the new disclosure orders. This bill also deals with the qudstion of

:49:16.:49:20.

tax evasion. In recent years there has been a great deal of public

:49:21.:49:24.

interest and a raft of government measures on tax avoidance. @rguably

:49:25.:49:31.

there has been less attention paid to tax evasion. There is sole

:49:32.:49:36.

blurring between the two terms. Broadly, tax evasion is when an

:49:37.:49:40.

individual or corporate enthty acts in breach of the law but tax

:49:41.:49:46.

avoidance occurs when an individual or corporate entity complies with

:49:47.:49:50.

the letter but not the spirht of the law. In recent years, Her M`jesty's

:49:51.:49:55.

Revenue and Customs has produced estimates of the tax gap, that is to

:49:56.:50:01.

say the difference between tax that is actually collected, and that

:50:02.:50:06.

which is theoretically due. Clearly, any such estimate must be

:50:07.:50:09.

speculative. I would draw the attention to the fact the most

:50:10.:50:17.

recent estimate is that it ?6 billion. This is the equivalent of

:50:18.:50:26.

6.5% of total tax liabilitids. Of that ?36 billion that is lost, .2

:50:27.:50:32.

billion is lost to evasion `nd only 2.2 billion is lost to avoidance. If

:50:33.:50:38.

you do welcome the measures in this bill to bear down on tax ev`sion and

:50:39.:50:44.

we welcome the provision whhch makes it a criminal offence for

:50:45.:50:47.

corporations which failed to stop their associated persons facilitated

:50:48.:50:54.

tax evasion. We particularlx welcome the fact this will have

:50:55.:51:01.

extraterritorial jurisdiction. However we regret the fact that in

:51:02.:51:07.

the tax evasion measures in part three of the bill, there is no

:51:08.:51:12.

reference to the British Ovdrseas Territories and Crown dependencies.

:51:13.:51:16.

This, I have to say, is a startling oversight. There are 14 British

:51:17.:51:21.

Overseas Territories in all. The British Virgin Islands is mdntioned

:51:22.:51:25.

no fewer than 113,000 times in the Panama papers. BVI, with a

:51:26.:51:34.

population of just 29,000, fewer than my own constituency of Hackney,

:51:35.:51:40.

is home to 452,000 internathonal businesses. Maybe the 29,000

:51:41.:51:48.

population is particularly skilled at accountancy and banking. But

:51:49.:51:52.

maybe some of those business entities are shells for tax evasion.

:51:53.:51:57.

There are also three Crown dependencies, Jersey, Guernsey and

:51:58.:52:02.

the Isle of Man. It is freqtently argued that the British Overseas

:52:03.:52:06.

Territories and the Crown dependencies are the largest tax

:52:07.:52:11.

evasion network in the world. So, the failure to mention them in a

:52:12.:52:15.

bill, which purports to deal with issues around tax evasion, hs a

:52:16.:52:21.

major omission and we will be seeking amendments as this bill goes

:52:22.:52:27.

through committee. It is frdquently asserted that it is not possible to

:52:28.:52:31.

legislate for British Oversdas Territories and the Crown

:52:32.:52:35.

dependencies but the Ministry of Justice seems to think diffdrently.

:52:36.:52:39.

This is an issue that we will be exploring. The minister refdrred to

:52:40.:52:47.

the beneficial ownership register that we are encouraging the overseas

:52:48.:52:50.

territories and the Crown dependencies to introduce. He must

:52:51.:52:54.

be aware that at least some of the overseas territories are bo`sting

:52:55.:52:59.

they are in practice invading the Government's efforts to get them to

:53:00.:53:03.

set up beneficial ownership registers and many of them `re

:53:04.:53:07.

saying that these registers will not be publicly available. On this side,

:53:08.:53:15.

we insist that if this government is serious about tax evasion, ht must

:53:16.:53:21.

ensure that the overseas territories and Crown dependencies, not just set

:53:22.:53:26.

up beneficial ownership reghsters but make them publicly available. We

:53:27.:53:33.

also note there is little distinction in the bill between

:53:34.:53:37.

corporate or partnership bodies who facilitate tax evasion. And those

:53:38.:53:46.

who do it routinely and as ` central part of their business model. We

:53:47.:53:49.

believe that we should look into a new provision at specifically

:53:50.:53:57.

criminalising entities and individuals for whom tax ev`sion is

:53:58.:54:00.

at the heart of their busindss model and punishing them more harshly I

:54:01.:54:09.

would not want to leave my remarks on tax evasion without menthoning

:54:10.:54:13.

the Labour Party's tax transparency enforcement programme. We w`nt a

:54:14.:54:17.

public enquiry to examine the loss of tax revenue. We want increased

:54:18.:54:22.

powers for HM RC, including a specialised tax enforcement unit. We

:54:23.:54:26.

want to force foreign firms correct solicitors and beneficiaries and we

:54:27.:54:33.

want the introduction of thd general avoidance policy and rules to cover

:54:34.:54:40.

offshore abuses. Finally, this bill deals with the important qudstion of

:54:41.:54:48.

terrorist finance. We know, those of us that have watched with horror,

:54:49.:54:54.

terrorist atrocities all ovdr the world and here in London, that

:54:55.:54:59.

terrorism is an existential threat to us in our society. We sh`red

:55:00.:55:04.

government aims to reduce the terrorist threat, not just to us in

:55:05.:55:09.

the UK, but to our allies and interests overseas was that we agree

:55:10.:55:12.

that one way of doing it is depriving terrorists of the

:55:13.:55:19.

financial resources required for terrorism related activity.

:55:20.:55:22.

Globalisation means we must constantly update our legal

:55:23.:55:25.

instruments so we note the changes the bill will make to the l`w

:55:26.:55:32.

enforcement intelligence agdncies in relation to offences under the

:55:33.:55:37.

Terrorism Act 2000, but we will be examining these proposals bdcause we

:55:38.:55:42.

are anxious that they do not bear to harshly on genuine charities. So in

:55:43.:55:50.

conclusion, on this side, wd support the principle of the bill. We will

:55:51.:55:55.

scrutinise the detail with care but we insist that it is vital that

:55:56.:55:59.

agencies like the National Crime Agency get the money they nded for

:56:00.:56:03.

implementation, otherwise the bill will be a dead letter. For too long,

:56:04.:56:13.

London has been accused of being a hub for money-laundering. Whth all

:56:14.:56:18.

its terrible effects, both on the take of our treasury, but also on

:56:19.:56:23.

the lives and countries of lany of the poorest people in the world We

:56:24.:56:30.

hope that this bill is the beginning of a process which brings the

:56:31.:56:36.

curtain down on the era when London could be described as a

:56:37.:56:39.

money-laundering hub and instead ensures that London and the UK set

:56:40.:56:47.

an example internationally `bout what can be done to bed down on

:56:48.:56:50.

money-laundering and tax ev`sion. Me I begin by declaring an hnterest.

:56:51.:57:07.

I am currently instructed bx the Serious Fraud Office in a ntmber of

:57:08.:57:11.

matters which touch upon thhs Bill and some of its predecessors.

:57:12.:57:17.

Secondly may I apologise to my right honourable and honourable friends

:57:18.:57:23.

and also to the honourable lady that you may not be able to be hdre at

:57:24.:57:28.

the wind-up, but I hope that my right honourable friend the Great

:57:29.:57:37.

Yarmouth will forgive me. All being well, this debate may run short if I

:57:38.:57:42.

don't talk too much! LAUGHTER

:57:43.:57:50.

I broadly support the princhple behind this bill, and I asstme it is

:57:51.:57:54.

entirely uncontroversial. Wd all want to see the sorts of crhminals

:57:55.:58:00.

who are we hope to be touchdd by this Bill caught and prevented from

:58:01.:58:05.

committing these sorts of fhnancial crimes. The days when peopld went

:58:06.:58:09.

into banks with sawn off shotguns are long over. Criminals ard now

:58:10.:58:14.

much more sophisticated, thdy go round the back with a set of wires

:58:15.:58:18.

metaphorically and extract loney out of banks and other financial

:58:19.:58:22.

institutions through the usd of computer crime rather than violence.

:58:23.:58:30.

And we need to keep up with them, as my honourable friend from Preston

:58:31.:58:33.

North End, we have to be cr`ftier than the craftier woods. In our

:58:34.:58:41.

enthusiasm to pass this leghslation, there are one or two matters which I

:58:42.:58:46.

think we need to be a littld cautious about, and I'm surd that

:58:47.:58:49.

the Government will during the course of the passage of thhs Bill

:58:50.:58:54.

think about how to get the detail of the Bill Wright, and many of the

:58:55.:58:57.

points that I am going to m`ke, it should be said should be in the

:58:58.:59:02.

support stage rather than the second reading, but I will make thdm now

:59:03.:59:07.

whilst I am on my feet. In relation to unexplained wealth orders, as a

:59:08.:59:15.

matter of principle they ard in line with earlier legislation and

:59:16.:59:21.

Proceeds of Crime Act and shmilar provisions, in that they sedm to

:59:22.:59:26.

reverse the burden of proof, making the respondent to the order explain

:59:27.:59:30.

themselves rather than requhring the prosecution or the state to make a

:59:31.:59:37.

case against them. I think that principle is now accepted in our

:59:38.:59:43.

criminal law so long as there are sufficient protections for the

:59:44.:59:47.

respondent within the legislation. We know that under the Bill, the

:59:48.:59:53.

High Court may on an applic`tion made by one of the prosecuthon

:59:54.:59:57.

authorities or the enforcemdnt agencies make an unexplained wealth

:59:58.:00:01.

order in respect of any property if the court is satisfied that each of

:00:02.:00:04.

the requirements for the making of the order is fulfilled. The order

:00:05.:00:09.

will be made in the High Cotrt, and the application of course whll be

:00:10.:00:14.

made to the High Court in rdlation to a respondent who has shall we say

:00:15.:00:22.

a criminal connection, but `lso to politically expose persons, and I

:00:23.:00:26.

think we need to be careful that politically exposed persons who will

:00:27.:00:33.

as I understand it be foreigners are sufficiently protected from the

:00:34.:00:40.

making of an order which cotld trash their reputation, or rather the

:00:41.:00:42.

making of an application whhch could trash their rip it Asian whhch when

:00:43.:00:49.

not acceded to buy the High Court judge nonetheless still leaves them

:00:50.:00:53.

exposed to the allegations that will have been made against him or her,

:00:54.:00:58.

and I suppose to a lesser extent the same could be said to respondent who

:00:59.:01:03.

has some form of criminal protection. It seems to me that the

:01:04.:01:08.

way around this is to do wh`t has been done in the Crime and Courts

:01:09.:01:12.

Bill 2013 in relation to deferred prosecution agreement is, and if one

:01:13.:01:20.

looks at Schedule 7 team of the 2013 Crime and Courts Bill, paragraphs

:01:21.:01:24.

seven and eight, there is a way of dealing with these things so that

:01:25.:01:34.

reputations cannot be damagdd until the necessary time when a p`rticular

:01:35.:01:38.

state of affairs has been approved. In deferred prosecution agrdement

:01:39.:01:45.

is, the parties, in this case the Serious Fraud Office, would apply to

:01:46.:01:49.

the court for a declaration that entering into a deferred prosecution

:01:50.:01:52.

agreement with the correspondent would be likely in the interest of

:01:53.:01:58.

justice and the proposed terms are fair, reasonable and proportionate,

:01:59.:02:03.

and that hearing is in priv`te. Once the court is satisfied on the

:02:04.:02:07.

parties are agreed that the terms of the order are correct, you then go

:02:08.:02:13.

back to the judge and he makes an order which is made public, and he

:02:14.:02:17.

also makes public the judgmdnt that he made in the private hearhng some

:02:18.:02:23.

days or weeks earlier. That seems to me a perfectly sensible way of

:02:24.:02:27.

maintaining the interests of doing justice in public but holding in

:02:28.:02:35.

private the initial hearing so that in the event of an order not being

:02:36.:02:48.

made or being altered in a way which makes the respondent look a lot less

:02:49.:02:51.

guilty than he might otherwhse have been, it allows that hearing to be

:02:52.:02:55.

heard without damaging an innocent man's reputation. So it seels that

:02:56.:03:03.

is simply a matter of mechanics and if the Government could spare the

:03:04.:03:06.

time between now and when this Bill leaves the House of Commons, we

:03:07.:03:09.

could achieve the end that we all want to see achieved without causing

:03:10.:03:16.

collateral or unintended dalage I am also a little concerned that it

:03:17.:03:21.

may be something that can bd dealt with at a later stage, that the Bill

:03:22.:03:29.

particularly in clause one deals with income is though that for all

:03:30.:03:36.

that needs to be considered. In 362 B, sub clause three, it says the

:03:37.:03:42.

High Court must be satisfied that there are reasonable grounds for

:03:43.:03:44.

suspecting that the known sources of the respondent's lawfully obtained

:03:45.:03:49.

income would be insufficient for the purposes of enabling the respondent

:03:50.:03:54.

to obtain the property, and one can see on the other side of thd page on

:03:55.:03:59.

sub clause six known sources of the respondent's sources of income,

:04:00.:04:04.

whether arising from assets or otherwise, are ascertainabld from

:04:05.:04:06.

available information at thd time of the making of the application for

:04:07.:04:11.

the order. If income simply means money received, then I can

:04:12.:04:13.

understand what it means, btt if it means income as opposed to capital,

:04:14.:04:19.

then I think we need to makd clear that income does not just include

:04:20.:04:27.

the interest from capital or the salary or whatever it may bd, but

:04:28.:04:32.

actually means all that the respondent owns, so that we can

:04:33.:04:42.

capture the distinction between income and capital. A respondent

:04:43.:04:47.

could be capital rich and income poor, and it seems we need to avoid

:04:48.:04:55.

them getting away from the order I saying that his income doesn't

:04:56.:04:58.

amount to much, whereas we `ll know all we can anticipate that his

:04:59.:05:05.

capital is rather larger. I am sure there are plenty of houses which the

:05:06.:05:08.

honourable lady the Shadow Home Secretary spoke about which were

:05:09.:05:13.

bought the cash, essentiallx bought from great loves of capital rather

:05:14.:05:21.

than from borrowings. I am concerned about the use of the word ptrports

:05:22.:05:27.

to comply in the Bill. I appreciate that this is an expression to be

:05:28.:05:30.

found in earlier and similar bills, but to me, purporting to do

:05:31.:05:34.

something either means to do your best or to attempt to do so, or to

:05:35.:05:41.

do something speciously, to appear to do it falsely, and I think we

:05:42.:05:45.

need to be clear, albeit th`t I accept as I said a moment ago in

:05:46.:05:49.

earlier legislation this expression is used. I think we need to be clear

:05:50.:05:54.

that to pretend to do something should not be a defence or `n answer

:05:55.:06:04.

to an accusation that you h`ve failed to comply with an undxplained

:06:05.:06:08.

wealth order. I turn now to the question of

:06:09.:06:21.

enforcement, which has been brought up on a number of occasions. Let us

:06:22.:06:27.

assume that an unexplained wealth order is made, let us assumd that

:06:28.:06:33.

the hearing initially perhaps single-handed by the authorhty is

:06:34.:06:41.

made, and it then either coles back for a hearing between both parties,

:06:42.:06:49.

or moves on in some other w`y. It is all very well making these orders if

:06:50.:06:53.

there are not the necessary police officers or investigators to ensure

:06:54.:06:58.

that they are enforced. I h`ve noticed that in the past with

:06:59.:07:03.

confiscation orders. Very often the courts will make an order and either

:07:04.:07:08.

the order is never even put into action, or very little of the amount

:07:09.:07:14.

that is required of the offdnder is ever recovered, and we do nded to

:07:15.:07:17.

make sure that this is not just a piece of legislation written in

:07:18.:07:22.

error, but has real teeth, `nd real teeth which are able to detdr those

:07:23.:07:27.

who think they can get away with this sort of misbehaviour, but also

:07:28.:07:31.

enables the Treasury to recover the ill gotten gains. And I dard say the

:07:32.:07:36.

same could be said in relathon to suspicious activity reports. Finally

:07:37.:07:44.

on the question of unexplained wealth orders, is there to be any of

:07:45.:07:50.

appeal system? It strikes md that at the minute, under 362 H, an

:07:51.:07:55.

application for an unexplained wealth order may be made without

:07:56.:07:58.

notice. I have dealt with the points about that. But is it a procedure

:07:59.:08:05.

which is going to be success to any sort of appeal, and if not, why not?

:08:06.:08:13.

Can I now finally turn to the matter of the failure to prevent

:08:14.:08:16.

provisions, which my honour`ble friend the Minister mentiondd in his

:08:17.:08:26.

opening speech. I heartily `pprove of this new system of dealing with

:08:27.:08:32.

corporate misconduct. We saw it first in our jurisdiction under the

:08:33.:08:40.

bribery act 2010, and althotgh there have been only a few cases hnvolving

:08:41.:08:44.

section seven of the briberx act 2010, it does strike me as being a

:08:45.:08:50.

way of dealing with the difficulty that we face under English law at

:08:51.:08:59.

least of pinning upon corporations criminal liability. In the Tnited

:09:00.:09:03.

States, a corporate body can be held to be criminally liable bec`use it

:09:04.:09:07.

employed the criminal. It is vicariously liable for employing the

:09:08.:09:10.

criminal, and his activities are pinned upon the company. In this

:09:11.:09:17.

company and certainly in thhs jurisdiction, we rely upon the

:09:18.:09:21.

Victorian principle of the directing mind, and that is with huge

:09:22.:09:25.

international companies with hundreds of thousands of employees

:09:26.:09:30.

posted right across the world, albeit that the headquarters of the

:09:31.:09:34.

company may be in this jurisdiction, it is extremely difficult to

:09:35.:09:37.

demonstrate that the directhng mind of the company knew what thd

:09:38.:09:45.

criminal MP was up to. And so section seven of the briberx act

:09:46.:09:50.

gets around that by requiring.. Of course. Thank you, Madam De`dy

:09:51.:09:58.

speaker. Whilst I accept thd directing mind principle, does he

:09:59.:10:01.

not agree with me that employees that engage on perhaps less than

:10:02.:10:06.

ethical practices that have caused a lot of the problems we have seen in

:10:07.:10:12.

the UK, unless the liabilitx goes to the top of the organisation, that

:10:13.:10:17.

organisation will never devdlop the protocols to make sure that the

:10:18.:10:22.

employees are loyal for thehr actions. What he says is perfectly

:10:23.:10:30.

true. Does that mean I accept what he says? I'm not sure. The point I

:10:31.:10:35.

am trying to get across is that companies can avoid liability absent

:10:36.:10:42.

section seven of the briberx act, the individuals can be prosdcuted

:10:43.:10:45.

and imprisoned, but the company gets away free, and the advantagd of

:10:46.:10:51.

section seven is that it brhngs the company within the ambit of

:10:52.:10:57.

responsibility. Yes, the colpliance systems within banks and financial

:10:58.:11:01.

institutions nowadays are mtch more sophisticated, much more vigorously

:11:02.:11:08.

engineered, so that anybody from top to bottom should know what they are

:11:09.:11:11.

supposed to do and what thex are supposed not to do, and to lake sure

:11:12.:11:15.

that that culture goes right the way through the company. There hs no

:11:16.:11:19.

excuse, it seems to me, for failing to behave properly, since wd all

:11:20.:11:25.

should know now and certainly the compliance world is very kedn to

:11:26.:11:28.

make sure that employees in banks and so forth know what they are

:11:29.:11:34.

supposed to do. But what I would like to do is not just limit the

:11:35.:11:40.

failure to prevent provisions to section seven of the briberx act and

:11:41.:11:43.

to this clause dealing with tax evasion, but to increase thd failure

:11:44.:11:48.

to prevent regime to all those offences or at least those offences

:11:49.:11:52.

which can sensibly be brought under it, set out in part two of Schedule

:11:53.:11:58.

7 teen of the Crime and Courts Bill 2013. Where there are about 40 or 50

:11:59.:12:07.

economic or financial crimes which corporations should be requhred to

:12:08.:12:12.

prevent. And that way I think we can put a blanket right across ` whole

:12:13.:12:15.

range of criminal financial offences which at the minute are four example

:12:16.:12:18.

not dealt with. For example, fraud, theft, false

:12:19.:12:29.

accounting, suppression of documents, wrongfully obtaining

:12:30.:12:35.

credit. The exportation of prohibited or restricted goods. The

:12:36.:12:38.

list is therefore the Government to look up. I hope thought will begin

:12:39.:12:44.

in not only just to increashng it to the evasion of taxation both here

:12:45.:12:49.

and abroad but to some if not all of the offences listed in that

:12:50.:12:54.

schedule. Finally, on one slall point, coming back to the rdsources

:12:55.:13:02.

point, there was an article in the Times this morning on the online

:13:03.:13:08.

column, the brief, where a senior lawyer at a city firm of solicitors

:13:09.:13:14.

complained that tax officials are failing to use the existing tools

:13:15.:13:18.

against tax avoidance schemds while seeking to expand their powdrs. This

:13:19.:13:25.

lawyer said, the huge range of swingeing powers H R C has been

:13:26.:13:28.

given in recent years may h`ve helped its image but to datd they

:13:29.:13:32.

have been little used as an enforcement tool. Some may puestion

:13:33.:13:35.

the public time and resourcds could have been better spent before

:13:36.:13:40.

granting HM RC yet further powers. Parliament should consider whether

:13:41.:13:46.

such powers are actually nedded and ask HMRC to explain why such powers

:13:47.:13:50.

have been underutilised. I don't know whether what he says is

:13:51.:13:54.

pinpoint accurate or what btt it seems to me we can do both. We can

:13:55.:14:00.

better use the powers we have, provided to HMRC, and make sure they

:14:01.:14:05.

use them, but also widen thd hamlet of our ability to prevent fhnancial

:14:06.:14:12.

crime by introducing the fahlure to prevent the provisions in this bill

:14:13.:14:24.

and I hope in the next form. Before I go through the crux of my speech,

:14:25.:14:29.

I can sum up our position on this bill is simply for the B support in

:14:30.:14:34.

principle the aims of the bhll. To be truthful, there is not mtch

:14:35.:14:37.

within the four corners of the bill we would dispute. Our probldm is not

:14:38.:14:41.

what is in the bill, our problem is what is not in the bill. I will make

:14:42.:14:45.

that clear as I go through our speech. When I studied the system at

:14:46.:14:52.

the university in the 1990s, the focus of financial crime and the

:14:53.:14:56.

Government in this regard w`s anti-money laundering regul`tions

:14:57.:15:01.

and proceeds of crime legislation geared specifically towards getting

:15:02.:15:06.

at the proceeds of drug traffickers. And quite frankly bank robbdrs. For

:15:07.:15:10.

the most part, this has worked. Long gone are the days when crimhnals

:15:11.:15:15.

could eat it -- easily legitimise cash from ill gotten gains. The only

:15:16.:15:22.

concern for robbing a bank was being caught red-handed. The percdption of

:15:23.:15:25.

criminals was if they could evade capture and not flash the c`sh they

:15:26.:15:29.

could eventually spend the loney for that in many cases, laws cotld be

:15:30.:15:33.

incarcerated for crimes and still look forward to spending thd loot

:15:34.:15:37.

when they were released. Many now needs to be accounted for. Banks

:15:38.:15:42.

must consider the source of funds and be satisfied they are

:15:43.:15:46.

legitimate. Police have powdrs to recruit proceeds of crime. Dven if

:15:47.:15:49.

they have been spent by the criminals, pass them back to the

:15:50.:15:53.

victims. In my view, you silply could not believe in the rule of law

:15:54.:15:58.

unless you could have supported the evolution and the rule of l`w should

:15:59.:16:02.

be at the heart of everything we do as a society. It is not fair for

:16:03.:16:05.

anyone to live in a world where criminals are free to gener`te cash

:16:06.:16:09.

and spend it without fear of repercussions for that therd must be

:16:10.:16:12.

a level playing field for the vast majority of society who plaxed by

:16:13.:16:17.

the rules. These past changds did not disincentive I've criminals

:16:18.:16:22.

doesn't matter disincentive I've criminals, they drove a coach and

:16:23.:16:29.

horses through their plans. I suggest they would not have

:16:30.:16:33.

committed those crimes with tougher money-laundering regulations. The

:16:34.:16:38.

challenges today are very, very different. We live in an er` of

:16:39.:16:42.

evolving financial crime and we now face a very different threat. It is

:16:43.:16:49.

the threat of grand corrupthon, particularly in relation to

:16:50.:16:57.

politically exposed people. Earlier this year, the Guardian revdaled

:16:58.:17:02.

through the Panama papers how powerful member of the good daffy

:17:03.:17:05.

inner circle had built a multi-million pound portfolho of

:17:06.:17:09.

boutique hotels in Scotland and luxury hotels in London. He was head

:17:10.:17:14.

of the Libyan infrastructurd fund for a decade and has been accused by

:17:15.:17:18.

government prosecutors in Tripoli for plunging many rental schools,

:17:19.:17:24.

hospitals and archaeology. Scottish police have confirmed they `re

:17:25.:17:27.

investigating Libya. They h`ve made a request for an asset freeze which

:17:28.:17:33.

has not been implemented. These challenges mean new and tougher

:17:34.:17:36.

legislation is required to give law enforcement the tools to do

:17:37.:17:40.

something about it. This is a principle which we, in the SNP,

:17:41.:17:47.

support. Without wishing to undermine your consideration of the

:17:48.:17:51.

bill, I would request we believe this bill applies to Scotland.

:17:52.:17:55.

Specific sections make good the provisions and how they would apply

:17:56.:18:00.

to Scotland. As for devolved competency, I would suggest the SNP

:18:01.:18:03.

Scottish Government has demonstrated its commitment to tackling criminal

:18:04.:18:07.

finances and tax avoidance `nd boasts a successful track rdcord in

:18:08.:18:13.

so doing. Scotland has introduced robust anti-avoidance rules. It is

:18:14.:18:17.

described as one of the toughest in the world. The SNP government

:18:18.:18:22.

approach demonstrates we ard deadly serious about tackling tax `voidance

:18:23.:18:28.

in Scotland. For example, rdvenue Scotland established the Scottish

:18:29.:18:32.

general anti-avoidance rule. That will allow revenue Scotland to take

:18:33.:18:36.

counter action against artificial tax avoidance schemes to make it

:18:37.:18:40.

more difficult for people to circumvent the requirement to pay

:18:41.:18:45.

tax. That said, whilst we stpport the broad principle at stakd, we

:18:46.:18:50.

note with interest the clear terms of the most recent Tory manhfesto.

:18:51.:18:57.

We will continue to lead thd world on tax and transparency. We will

:18:58.:19:01.

make it a crime if companies failed to put into place measures to stop

:19:02.:19:07.

economic crime. We will crack down on tax evasion and aggressive tax

:19:08.:19:13.

avoidance. The principles m`y be once we support but we have real

:19:14.:19:18.

doubts the bill goes far enough to achieve these goals, which hs

:19:19.:19:23.

something I and my honourable friend will make clear as we move through

:19:24.:19:28.

this debate. There are many mechanisms and vehicles provided for

:19:29.:19:35.

in the bill. One of the most important and perhaps the e`siest

:19:36.:19:39.

for the public to understand our unexplained wealth orders. This will

:19:40.:19:44.

enable the court to make an unexplained wealth order. Upon

:19:45.:19:50.

application by Scottish minhsters requiring an individual or

:19:51.:19:53.

organisation to explain origin of asset if there are reasonable

:19:54.:19:57.

grounds for suspecting they may be involved with criminality or intend

:19:58.:20:01.

to use the wealth for criminal purposes and the value of the assets

:20:02.:20:07.

exceeds ?100,000. This would be available to the court wherd assets

:20:08.:20:11.

appear to be disproportionate to the known legitimate income. For

:20:12.:20:16.

example, as recently reportdd, where a taxi driver owns a ?1 million fish

:20:17.:20:28.

tank. A failure to provide ` response to the order and explain

:20:29.:20:30.

the legitimate source of funds would give rise to a presumption that the

:20:31.:20:33.

property was indeed recover`ble making any subsequent civil recovery

:20:34.:20:35.

action much easier. As a lawyer the notion of reversing the burden of

:20:36.:20:38.

proof is not one which sits comfortably with me. But, as another

:20:39.:20:45.

rabbit -- other areas, that is proportional to the issue at stake

:20:46.:20:49.

here. Sounds legal principlds like the presumption of innocencd and the

:20:50.:20:54.

burden of proof should not inadvertently protect criminals

:20:55.:20:57.

which I suspect may have happened thus far. Unexplained wealth orders

:20:58.:21:03.

will also help explain the owners of property. Figures show real estate

:21:04.:21:09.

worth ?170 billion is held by more than 30,000 tax haven companies The

:21:10.:21:16.

key to this provision is th`t a criminal conviction will no longer

:21:17.:21:20.

be necessary before law enforcement can pierce the criminals thdre which

:21:21.:21:23.

camouflage is the wealth. Gdtting away with the crime will no longer

:21:24.:21:28.

protect a criminal's well. This will allow for this power to be `pplied

:21:29.:21:32.

to foreign policy issues and officials, or those associated with

:21:33.:21:37.

them, known as politically dxposed persons, helping to tackle the

:21:38.:21:41.

issues of grand corruption hs overseas being laundered in the UK.

:21:42.:21:46.

On the point of unexplained wealth, I have a couple of specific

:21:47.:21:53.

questions. I understand the minister will not be in his place for the

:21:54.:21:56.

summing up at the end of thd debate but the other minister is thankfully

:21:57.:21:59.

here and will hear these qudstions. I was going to ask him to p`ss them

:22:00.:22:02.

on but that is redundant. In relation to unexplained wealth

:22:03.:22:06.

orders, there is a motion about freezing orders. If a motion is

:22:07.:22:10.

made, one could presume the respondent would be keen to out of

:22:11.:22:15.

the country with a stash of cash. Freezing orders are available if the

:22:16.:22:20.

court is satisfied that thex are necessary. Can the Government

:22:21.:22:23.

consider strengthening this position to ensure that the hotfoot

:22:24.:22:30.

temptation is not available to these criminals? I can imagine thd rush to

:22:31.:22:36.

flee. Perhaps an automatic freezing order on granting of the application

:22:37.:22:39.

for the unexplained wealth order might be something that is

:22:40.:22:46.

considered. And will be ?100,00 threshold create a new out for grand

:22:47.:22:50.

corruption? Well politicallx exposed people collaborate with manx people

:22:51.:22:55.

to do numerous transactions under ?100,000. This should also be

:22:56.:22:58.

considered and these provishons should make sure we catch these

:22:59.:23:04.

activities. Madam Deputy Spdaker, current legislation does not make it

:23:05.:23:08.

easy to seize criminal assets in the former bank accounts and other value

:23:09.:23:12.

assets such as precious met`ls and jewels, or indeed casino chhps and

:23:13.:23:17.

high value betting slips. There is evidence these movable items are

:23:18.:23:22.

being used both domesticallx and across international borders. This

:23:23.:23:25.

bill will create civil powers similar to the existing cash seizure

:23:26.:23:31.

and future schemes in current legislation to close this g`p. These

:23:32.:23:36.

powers will be exercise book where there is reasonable suspicion the

:23:37.:23:40.

property is the proceeds of crime or the fact it will be used in unlawful

:23:41.:23:47.

conduct. The SNP manifesto hn 2 16 stated that we will argue for a

:23:48.:23:50.

change in the law at Westminster to enable the police to seize htems of

:23:51.:23:55.

monetary value from criminals, such as high value betting slips and

:23:56.:23:59.

casino chips. I was pleased at the minister 's statement that these

:24:00.:24:03.

will be included in an amendment forthcoming. I'm struggling to see

:24:04.:24:08.

how they can be caught by the face value batches provision in the Bill.

:24:09.:24:15.

I was grateful for that statement and thank the Minister for so doing.

:24:16.:24:18.

The next point is about corporate failure to prevent tax evashon. This

:24:19.:24:22.

is the Government's attempt to legislate on what we understand as

:24:23.:24:29.

being corporate economic crhme. This will create two new offences.

:24:30.:24:35.

However, again, we support these measures and as far as they go. We

:24:36.:24:38.

see this as a huge missed opportunity for that nothing in this

:24:39.:24:42.

bill, for example, would crhminalise the banks themselves for thdir

:24:43.:24:53.

employees rigging the Libor market. They may see this as a slight copout

:24:54.:24:58.

and a continuation of the status quo which has got us into so much

:24:59.:25:03.

difficulty. It is hardly uncontroversial to hold companies to

:25:04.:25:07.

account for the tax evasion of their employees. It is tax evasion, for

:25:08.:25:12.

goodness sake. The public would expect it to be criminally sanction

:25:13.:25:16.

of all. The public wants to see stronger measures to hold companies,

:25:17.:25:22.

in particular banks, liable for the crimes of their resident rogue

:25:23.:25:26.

bankers. It seems strange that the Government seems to have ducked this

:25:27.:25:31.

issue. As someone who has worked for a very well-known retail bank,

:25:32.:25:34.

something I do not advertisd as much these days as much as I used to I

:25:35.:25:40.

can testify with absolute cdrtainty that until banks themselves are in

:25:41.:25:44.

the frame, as was the point with my intervention, they will nevdr

:25:45.:25:48.

develop risk management and other protocols necessary designed to make

:25:49.:25:51.

sure their agents were that deploys, do not commit these crimes. It is

:25:52.:25:55.

any when liability goes to the top that we will ever begin to solve

:25:56.:26:03.

these issues. So I ask the linister the question, will the Government

:26:04.:26:06.

consider reacting to what the public understands as corporate crhme and

:26:07.:26:10.

make banks liable for practhces causing so much economic he`rtache

:26:11.:26:14.

to so many ordinary people since 2008? Why should the innocent

:26:15.:26:20.

ordinary punter pay for the mistakes of rogue bankers? If you make the

:26:21.:26:24.

bosses libel, you will see this tightened up almost instantly. I

:26:25.:26:25.

give way. I am grateful to the honour`ble

:26:26.:26:38.

gentleman and my honourable friend. The first step, at least encourage

:26:39.:26:42.

the Government to look at the scheduled to the 2013 act where the

:26:43.:26:46.

economic and financial crimds are set out and see whether we can get

:26:47.:26:50.

failure to prevent added into this bill, and then perhaps he and I

:26:51.:26:56.

could get together and try to persuade the American vicarhously

:26:57.:27:01.

the system. I have a great deal of sympathy with both of those points,

:27:02.:27:08.

however particularly the first point is a half house measure and doesn't

:27:09.:27:13.

go far enough. It won't pin criminal liability on the banks. The point in

:27:14.:27:19.

relation to vicarious liability the United States is considered to be

:27:20.:27:23.

the free-market monster of the world, and yet they feel colfortable

:27:24.:27:28.

criminalising banks for the actions of rogue employees, and I stggest

:27:29.:27:30.

that we do the same in the TK. Deputy Speaker, it is always a joy

:27:31.:27:52.

to be between two barristers! There is always a

:27:53.:27:55.

fine for avoiding tax, becatse we think that will change behaviour. It

:27:56.:28:01.

is one thing to fine a comp`ny capped fee, but you have to not only

:28:02.:28:07.

change the bosses' attitude but also the shareholders' attitude, and

:28:08.:28:11.

massive fines make the diffdrence, and coupled with our changes in

:28:12.:28:14.

power of the FCA, we hope that will change behaviour. Misty Deptty

:28:15.:28:20.

Speaker, I agree with what the Minister says, but I agree that this

:28:21.:28:28.

only extends to tax evasion, not beyond that, that is my point.

:28:29.:28:32.

Within the four corners of this bill, there is very little to

:28:33.:28:36.

disagree with. It doesn't go beyond tax evasion, and I think th`t is a

:28:37.:28:41.

huge omission. There are other sections of the Bill that wd in the

:28:42.:28:44.

SNP can support without much hesitation. The expansion of the

:28:45.:28:52.

SARs regime, and combating terrorism. We support all of these

:28:53.:28:56.

measures in principle. Notwithstanding our in principle

:28:57.:28:59.

support of this bill, we don't think it goes far enough. Mr Deputy

:29:00.:29:07.

Speaker, I will take you through some of the points very quickly that

:29:08.:29:10.

we think are missing from the Bill, but before I do, I wish to lake a

:29:11.:29:15.

small point about the time we have had to consider this bill and its

:29:16.:29:22.

content, and we do not think that we have been given enough time. The

:29:23.:29:26.

Bill has been constructed whth high-speed, admirable though that

:29:27.:29:33.

may be, but we were shown draft clauses only in the last fortnight,

:29:34.:29:42.

and even then they were att`cked -- tagged in confidence. The Scottish

:29:43.:29:50.

Government has not had the chance to consider this bill, nor havd I, in

:29:51.:29:55.

sufficient detail to consult properly with Scottish stakdholders

:29:56.:29:57.

and to provide the Minister and Government with detailed advice The

:29:58.:30:02.

Scottish Government will do so in due course. In addition, we are

:30:03.:30:09.

already aware of concerns along Scottish stakeholders, parthcularly

:30:10.:30:11.

the civil recovery unit, th`t their advice has not been listened to or

:30:12.:30:18.

acted upon. The provisions lay not be the most effective avail`ble but

:30:19.:30:21.

I would encourage the Minister to continue his dialogue with the

:30:22.:30:26.

Scottish Government which hd demonstrated yesterday evenhng that

:30:27.:30:28.

is ongoing, and I thank him for that. So, what is missing? Ht

:30:29.:30:35.

remains the case for us that the most notable aspect of the Bill is

:30:36.:30:40.

what is not in it. An tax evasion, the Tory manifesto had its headline

:30:41.:30:44.

objected to deal with tax evasion, but this bill makes no menthon of

:30:45.:30:51.

the UK overseas territories and UK crown dependencies. Given the

:30:52.:30:56.

statement of intent in the Tory manifesto and the problems

:30:57.:30:58.

highlighted by the Panama P`pers and the public reaction to the Panama

:30:59.:31:04.

Papers, this omission seems very peculiar indeed. I am grateful to my

:31:05.:31:11.

noble friend for giving way. The OECD estimates that tax havdns may

:31:12.:31:17.

be costing developing countries are some up to three times the global

:31:18.:31:23.

aid budget. Does he agree whth me and the charity Christian Ahd that

:31:24.:31:26.

the most effective thing thd Government could do to counter

:31:27.:31:34.

corrupt financing is to set a deadline for overseas territories to

:31:35.:31:39.

adopt the same transparency is the UK, and this bill is a missdd

:31:40.:31:43.

opportunity to do so. Unsurprisingly I agree wholeheartedly with my

:31:44.:31:48.

honourable and learn a colldague. And I would make the point that the

:31:49.:31:55.

way to do this, is there anxway we could compel the overseas

:31:56.:31:58.

territories and crown dependencies to publish registers of offhcial

:31:59.:32:02.

ownership, which would provhde much-needed transparency to what is

:32:03.:32:06.

turning out to be a bottlendck in the fight against tax evasion? Does

:32:07.:32:11.

he agree with me there is precedent for doing this, because the

:32:12.:32:15.

Government has repeatedly ldgislated in respect of overseas terrhtories,

:32:16.:32:19.

for example on issues relatdd to corruption, a abolishing thd death

:32:20.:32:30.

penalty and so on. Yes, agahn I agree with my friend. Where there is

:32:31.:32:34.

a political will, there will be away, and if this Government is

:32:35.:32:38.

inclined to legislate in relation to the overseas territories and crown

:32:39.:32:41.

dependencies, no doubt that could be done. The omission and the fact that

:32:42.:32:45.

they haven't done indicates to me there is not the political will to

:32:46.:32:50.

do so. We don't believe that this bill will tackle tax avoidance

:32:51.:32:54.

appropriately, which is increased under this Conservative govdrnment.

:32:55.:32:58.

The UK tax gap for last year was a staggering 36 billion, and despite

:32:59.:33:02.

the rhetoric coming from thd Tory front bench is, this has increased

:33:03.:33:08.

by 2 billion last year. Mord needs to be done to achieve everybody s

:33:09.:33:14.

stated ends. On tax, why was the tax code not addressed? The UK has one

:33:15.:33:20.

of the most complex tax codds in the world, which has led clearlx to

:33:21.:33:23.

opportunities to both creatd and exploit existing loopholes. We

:33:24.:33:28.

therefore call on the Treastry to convene a commission and report back

:33:29.:33:32.

within two years following ` competence of consultation on the

:33:33.:33:36.

simple of occasion of the t`x code. By opening the door to a silplified

:33:37.:33:40.

tax system, the UK Government could increase tax yield, encourage

:33:41.:33:44.

compliance and avoid exploitative loopholes such as the Mayfahr

:33:45.:33:50.

loophole and employee benefht trust. Change is one thing but it could be

:33:51.:33:54.

coming as if we don't alloc`te the resource necessary to ensurd the

:33:55.:33:56.

Bill and subsequent measures have real effect. That is why we think

:33:57.:34:06.

the UK's decision to close ` HMRC offices is live. These resotrces are

:34:07.:34:12.

needed to boost compliance, not to mention the human cost that has

:34:13.:34:15.

occurred and had on families, employees, communities and hndeed

:34:16.:34:20.

local business. One final point I would make to the Minister, which

:34:21.:34:24.

will be expanded by my Ahdel friend later, can I request that this

:34:25.:34:30.

reserved issue of Scottish limited partnerships are dealt with in the

:34:31.:34:36.

Bill, which they are not at present? Mr Deputy Speaker, it is thd view of

:34:37.:34:42.

the Scottish Government that provisions will be needed for

:34:43.:34:50.

seizure powers over wealth owners and the powers contained in the

:34:51.:34:53.

Criminal Finances Bill. It will also include the specific revisions and

:34:54.:34:58.

civil recovery and criminal confiscation required by thd

:34:59.:35:00.

Scottish Government for inclusion in the Bill. Mr Deputy Speaker, we will

:35:01.:35:07.

not trigger a division on this bill this evening, but we want to

:35:08.:35:12.

reiterate very, very firmly that this bill does not go anywhdre near

:35:13.:35:16.

far enough in dealing with what I think is a real and tangibld outcry

:35:17.:35:20.

from the public given what has happened over the last five, six,

:35:21.:35:24.

seven years, and if we are serious about maintaining and creathng

:35:25.:35:27.

confidence in the banking sxstem again, which has evaporated, then we

:35:28.:35:30.

need to tackle this issue hdad on and do more than we are doing in

:35:31.:35:38.

this bill. Mr Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this bill, not to

:35:39.:35:41.

complain about what is not hn it but to praise the Government and agree

:35:42.:35:44.

with the Government on what they have put in this bold bill. I should

:35:45.:35:50.

declare that I am a barristdr and have represented a number of police

:35:51.:35:54.

forces across the country, but that experience has taught me two things.

:35:55.:35:59.

First, a genuine admiration for the men and women of our fantastic lease

:36:00.:36:04.

service for the dedication they show in the task of keeping us s`fe.

:36:05.:36:08.

Thanks to their excellent work led by Chief Superintendent Glenn

:36:09.:36:12.

Tunstall, Kingston is now the safest borough in London, but as I learned

:36:13.:36:17.

at our recent police awards, even in London's safest borough, thdre are

:36:18.:36:21.

humbling examples of everyd`y heroism and compassion by otr police

:36:22.:36:25.

officers. We don't hear abott them enough, and we are truly gr`teful.

:36:26.:36:30.

At the election, I pledged to do what I could to give the police the

:36:31.:36:33.

tools to do their job, and that brings me to the second thing I have

:36:34.:36:36.

learned from my work with the police, that there are a nulber of

:36:37.:36:41.

powers in this bill that thd police have been and indeed still `re

:36:42.:36:45.

hamstrung without. Where thdy are powerless to act in the facd of

:36:46.:36:50.

wrongdoing. Before I get onto those powers, I want to make a broader

:36:51.:36:55.

point. I am proud to serve `s a London MP, representing those who

:36:56.:36:57.

live and work in the best chty in the world. London is the world's

:36:58.:37:02.

financial services capital, and I know that the Government is working

:37:03.:37:05.

as hard as it can to ensure that that remains the case after

:37:06.:37:10.

Britain's exit from the EU, but over the last few years, there h`ve been

:37:11.:37:14.

reports that London is becoling the capital of something more insidious,

:37:15.:37:20.

money-laundering. After the global financial crisis, property hn London

:37:21.:37:22.

has become one of the safest investment in the world, and one

:37:23.:37:26.

which rich criminals and money-laundering is attractdd to in

:37:27.:37:30.

just the same way as people who have made their money legitimately. And

:37:31.:37:34.

put shortly, Londoners want this stain removing from their chty, and

:37:35.:37:37.

this bill will help to do that tonight. And it is not just London.

:37:38.:37:43.

The National Crime Agency assesses that billions of pounds of proceeds

:37:44.:37:47.

of international corruption are laundered into or through the UK

:37:48.:37:53.

every year. HMRC estimates that ?4.4 billion was lost to the exchequer

:37:54.:37:57.

last year alone due to tax dvasion in the UK. Globally,

:37:58.:38:02.

money-laundering is estimatdd to amount to 2.7% of global GDP, or 1.6

:38:03.:38:09.

trillion US dollars. To put that into perspective, Mr Deputy Speaker,

:38:10.:38:12.

there are only nine countrids in the world with GDP greater than $1.

:38:13.:38:21.

billion. As the leading nathon in the world for soft power, as a

:38:22.:38:25.

nation that is trying to le`d the global debate on anti-corruption, we

:38:26.:38:28.

need to make sure that we gdt our house in order. And tonight's bill

:38:29.:38:34.

is part of the Government's wider efforts to ensure our house is in

:38:35.:38:38.

order, and I want to touch on just a few aspects of the builders evening.

:38:39.:38:44.

Firstly, unexplained wealth orders. We have seen many cases in the press

:38:45.:38:48.

where individuals suspected of grave criminal offences lead lavish

:38:49.:38:52.

lifestyles well beyond what any legitimate income that they could

:38:53.:38:58.

evidence could possibly support And it is insulting to the many

:38:59.:39:02.

hard-working people in the TK who play by the rules, who go to work

:39:03.:39:07.

day in and day out to earn `n honest living to support themselves and

:39:08.:39:10.

their families to see this happening, and it creates a feeling

:39:11.:39:14.

of impunity in the upper echelons of criminality. Unexplained we`lth

:39:15.:39:19.

orders will require those stspected of involvement in or associ`ted with

:39:20.:39:23.

serious criminality to expl`in the origin of assets over ?100,000 that

:39:24.:39:27.

appear disproportionate to their known income, and a failure to

:39:28.:39:31.

provide a response or a sathsfactory response could lead to a prdsumption

:39:32.:39:35.

that the property in question is recoverable in civil proceedings.

:39:36.:39:40.

These unexplained wealth orders will have to be made by a High Court

:39:41.:39:44.

judge an application of a rdlatively wide enforcement officer, btt even

:39:45.:39:46.

with those protections as you would expect as a lawyer, I would ask the

:39:47.:39:51.

Minister to give a little more assurance about the nature of the

:39:52.:39:55.

protections in place, given that this does reverse the burden of

:39:56.:39:59.

proof which normally rests on the crown. I am sure the Ministdr will

:40:00.:40:03.

be able to provide that reassurance. And I entirely agree that while my

:40:04.:40:08.

honourable friend from the Scottish National Party said, that this does

:40:09.:40:15.

appear to be proportion, thd law enforcement officers find themselves

:40:16.:40:19.

so. Having spent many mornings in Magistrates' Court up and down the

:40:20.:40:25.

country making Poca applications, I do have a little familiaritx with

:40:26.:40:30.

this area. The current powers under Poca apply to cash, so the police

:40:31.:40:33.

may seize it where they havd reasonable grounds to suspect it is

:40:34.:40:38.

the proceeds of crime. They can then apply to the Magistrates' Court to

:40:39.:40:41.

forfeit that cash, and the classic example is a shoe box found in a

:40:42.:40:44.

house with some drugs and some roles of cash. But it applies to cash

:40:45.:40:51.

alone, and the more sophisthcated criminals are not those that have

:40:52.:40:55.

roles of cash with the bit of cannabis or cocaine in a shoe box.

:40:56.:40:59.

They are the criminals who have their money in bank accounts and in

:41:00.:41:03.

high-value items of personal property that are much harddr to

:41:04.:41:08.

trace and much more easy to move around both domestic league and

:41:09.:41:12.

internationally, like precious metals and jewels, and indedd

:41:13.:41:15.

betting slips, which was solething I was not aware of, and I'm grateful

:41:16.:41:21.

to the SNP for drawing that to the Government's attention. So, the

:41:22.:41:31.

seizure and forfeiture provhsions mean that the law on the police s

:41:32.:41:36.

powers are keeping up with the way crimes are being committed. That is

:41:37.:41:37.

a welcome move. I would like to turn to part three

:41:38.:41:47.

of the Bill and the corporate offence to tackle tax evasion.

:41:48.:41:52.

Another manifesto commitment the Government is delivering two nights

:41:53.:41:55.

of it is already the case t`xpayer who fraudulently base this commit a

:41:56.:42:04.

criminal offence. A banker or an accountant or a tax advisor who

:42:05.:42:11.

knowingly assists someone commits a criminal offence. A company

:42:12.:42:15.

employing that banker or accountant or tax advisor or other professional

:42:16.:42:19.

who criminally facilitates tax evasion does not commit any offence

:42:20.:42:22.

itself that they are outsidd the reach of the law for that this bill

:42:23.:42:26.

aims to bring those companids within the reach of the law, not to

:42:27.:42:31.

duplicate the liability on their employee or agent, but to

:42:32.:42:34.

criminalise a failure by thd company to prevent those acting on hts

:42:35.:42:40.

behalf from facilitating tax evasion. Allowing an atmosphere to

:42:41.:42:45.

be created where that is possible. This may seem Draconian to some In

:42:46.:42:51.

my view, it is absolutely ndcessary. Companies will have the defdnce

:42:52.:42:55.

much like under health and safety regulations, that if they c`n show

:42:56.:42:59.

they have a reasonable prevdntative procedure in place, they have a

:43:00.:43:05.

proper defence and they havd not committed the offence. This new

:43:06.:43:08.

offence will be the stick that will drive up companies own efforts to

:43:09.:43:12.

ensure that the own procedures do the utmost to ensure that prepare

:43:13.:43:18.

bashers event that employers facilitating tax evasion. -,

:43:19.:43:30.

would he agree there's a re`l case to be made for extending bexond tax

:43:31.:43:37.

evasion issues, the remix this bill? I certainly think that is something

:43:38.:43:43.

that can be looked at and consulted on. This bill is achieving `

:43:44.:43:47.

manifesto commitment to doing exactly what it says on the tenth of

:43:48.:43:50.

that is what the Government is trying to deliver this evenhng. I

:43:51.:43:57.

will carry on if I may. Hopdfully this will have the same effdct as

:43:58.:44:02.

health and safety legislation has had with companies taking the lead

:44:03.:44:07.

in rooting out bad practice to avoid being liable themselves, for

:44:08.:44:12.

incidents caused by their elployees. Some businesses may dismiss this as

:44:13.:44:18.

red tape. If it is red tape, it is important red tape. It is vdry much

:44:19.:44:25.

focused on the aim it is trxing to achieve. It is important to ensure

:44:26.:44:31.

the integrity of our world leading financial services sector in London.

:44:32.:44:35.

This has been welcomed by m`ny in the industry, including the chief

:44:36.:44:40.

Executive of the British bankers Association, although his utterances

:44:41.:44:45.

are not necessarily supportdd by me. Mr Deputy Speaker, I have touched on

:44:46.:44:49.

a few provisions in this bill. There are many other provisions which are

:44:50.:44:53.

tidying up provisions, that are extensions of existing laws based on

:44:54.:44:57.

feedback to the garment frol the police and law enforcement `gencies

:44:58.:45:00.

on the deficiencies in their current powers. That approach is to be

:45:01.:45:05.

strongly welcomed. When it comes to the fast moving world of crhminality

:45:06.:45:11.

that our police are trying to prevent and detect, we in this House

:45:12.:45:16.

must be fleet of foot. The Government is doing so tonight.

:45:17.:45:20.

Honourable members from across the house will welcome the aims behind

:45:21.:45:25.

this bill unreservedly. I hope that means all the clauses as well. Thank

:45:26.:45:32.

you. I am the first nonlawydr to speak from the backbenches. I think

:45:33.:45:37.

I am the first member in thd House of Commons to acknowledge actually

:45:38.:45:41.

the role played by our formdr Prime Minister in giving leadershhp on

:45:42.:45:46.

this issue of anti-corruption and indeed the right honourable member

:45:47.:45:50.

for Brentwood and Ongar, thd anti-corruption czar. I think they

:45:51.:45:54.

should both be acknowledged that the work they did lead to what we are

:45:55.:45:59.

considering. I am with everxbody who has spoken so far. This bill is

:46:00.:46:05.

extremely important. The estimates, whether by the National Crile Agency

:46:06.:46:12.

or HMR see of the billions of pounds that are laundered through the UK,

:46:13.:46:18.

the billions of pounds lost to public services, because HMRC are

:46:19.:46:25.

unable to collect them make this a very important measure. I slightly

:46:26.:46:34.

fear the rhetoric that many have given this afternoon does not

:46:35.:46:38.

reflect the reality. I hope the minister will be able to respond to

:46:39.:46:42.

some of the issues I want to raise with him. Others have raised the

:46:43.:46:47.

issue of the omission of tax havens. I think the failure to take action

:46:48.:46:51.

on the overseas territories and Crown dependencies, which act as key

:46:52.:46:59.

jurisdictions in support of a lot of tax evasion, tax avoidance, and

:47:00.:47:04.

corruption, is a grave error. I hope the minister will reflect on it

:47:05.:47:08.

during the proceedings of the bill that we can see whether or not we

:47:09.:47:14.

can introduce some amendment. I have to say to the Government th`t their

:47:15.:47:18.

failure to mention these territories makes them complicit in fachlitating

:47:19.:47:24.

the very corruption they sax they wish to tackle through the clauses

:47:25.:47:29.

of this bill. Thank you for giving way. I agree with the previous

:47:30.:47:34.

speakers that is something was done about the overseas dependencies it

:47:35.:47:37.

would give more credibility to the Government because the Government

:47:38.:47:40.

has committed itself to report on tax avoidance in some of thdse tax

:47:41.:47:48.

havens overseas. If they're going to negotiate with other governlents and

:47:49.:47:52.

get them on board, they shotld do something about overseas

:47:53.:47:55.

dependencies. I agree entirdly with the comments from my honour`ble

:47:56.:48:04.

friend. Well she give way? H will indeed. Does she not agree that the

:48:05.:48:12.

actual danger, while we support what is in this bill, you might drive

:48:13.:48:16.

even more business towards the overseas territories and encourage

:48:17.:48:21.

even more of the problems that have been identified already? Indeed I

:48:22.:48:25.

would also add I think prob`bly with the Brexit provisions that light

:48:26.:48:30.

also lead to increased activity through the overseas territories the

:48:31.:48:38.

tax havens as well. There are a number of dangers on that. There are

:48:39.:48:43.

a number of members who havd already raised evidence suggesting the

:48:44.:48:47.

importance of this. I would point to two or three facts. There w`s the

:48:48.:48:53.

World Bank review of 213 corruption cases which was undertaken. A review

:48:54.:48:59.

of cases over a 30 year perhod from 1982 to 210. Many of those cases

:49:00.:49:08.

involved shelved entities. The UK Crown dependencies and overseas

:49:09.:49:11.

territories were second aftdr the US on the list of those providhng shell

:49:12.:49:16.

entities. I think that is vdry clear evidence the importance of the role

:49:17.:49:23.

from the Crown dependencies and overseas territories. Do we really

:49:24.:49:27.

always have to wait for another leaked to understand the role that

:49:28.:49:30.

is being played by these Crown dependencies? I think the ldak of

:49:31.:49:38.

the Panama papers is one in a stream. If you look at the

:49:39.:49:42.

information garnered from those leaks, there were over 200,000

:49:43.:49:46.

corporate entities. More th`n half were registered in BDI, in that

:49:47.:49:57.

territory. Again, I would ask the minister to consider that. Something

:49:58.:50:03.

else I came across, and Afrhcan progress panel, which found that

:50:04.:50:05.

citizens of the Democratic Republic of the combo -- Congo word deprived

:50:06.:50:15.

of resources, money that was twice their health and education budgets

:50:16.:50:18.

combined. That was due to the sale of mining contracts to five

:50:19.:50:22.

anonymous companies. Those `ssets were sold at about a six of their

:50:23.:50:29.

commercial value and then it enabled the secret of offshore comp`nies to

:50:30.:50:35.

sell them on and secure profits of over 500% of the original monies

:50:36.:50:40.

that they take. Again, losing desperately needed public rdsources

:50:41.:50:45.

to the poorest of the countries in the world. If we are really to

:50:46.:50:51.

tackle the corruption, the dvasion and the avoidance which occtrs in

:50:52.:50:54.

jurisdictions over which we have ultimate control, we have to have

:50:55.:50:59.

the transparency, which a ntmber of members in this afternoon's debate

:51:00.:51:07.

have asked for. I listen carefully to what might Honourable Lady Sarah.

:51:08.:51:13.

I just ask will she not concede that since, and in the lead up to the

:51:14.:51:19.

anti-corruption Summit in M`y, when the Crown dependencies and overseas

:51:20.:51:21.

territories agreed to establish central registers and agreed to a

:51:22.:51:30.

data-sharing system with thd United Kingdom enforcement agencies, almost

:51:31.:51:34.

in real time it will give us access to that data, that goes a long way

:51:35.:51:41.

to meet some of her concerns. I recognise that this is wantdd to be

:51:42.:51:49.

public. That goes some way. On the other side, the and explaindd wealth

:51:50.:51:53.

orders will allow us to grab the money, should they put the loney in

:51:54.:51:55.

this country and live in thd nice houses they somehow seem to do. I

:51:56.:52:02.

have to say it is my view and that of the British government,

:52:03.:52:05.

publicising those registers of ownership. It is absolutely crucial.

:52:06.:52:11.

We decided to do it for ourselves. Why are we using powers to dnforce

:52:12.:52:16.

it on the Crown dependencies and overseas territories? The rdason we

:52:17.:52:19.

have decided to do this are multiple. For many of the poorer

:52:20.:52:25.

countries, actually getting that agencies up to speed so thex are

:52:26.:52:29.

able to pursue and know what questions to ask is tough. Hf you

:52:30.:52:35.

have public registers, that is much easier for others to interrogate it,

:52:36.:52:39.

civil society to interrogatd it You are more likely to be able to see

:52:40.:52:47.

that. The other thing is, again it is a very reactive response. If it

:52:48.:52:53.

is only a register that can only be interrogated by the international

:52:54.:52:59.

agencies, the international agencies who are allowed to have accdss, it

:53:00.:53:02.

means you have to get to thd point where you know there is somdthing

:53:03.:53:05.

you want and you after before you are going to be able to discover

:53:06.:53:09.

whether or not there is information about beneficial ownership which is

:53:10.:53:14.

relevant to a criminal activity or aggressive tax avoidance or whatever

:53:15.:53:20.

it is. It presupposes a degree of resources, intensive resources, and

:53:21.:53:23.

knowledge, which won't necessarily be there. We welcome the crdation of

:53:24.:53:31.

these agencies but having them public is absolutely essenthal to

:53:32.:53:37.

making them work. Actually, the minister should listen to the words

:53:38.:53:42.

of the former Prime Minister. He was absolutely clear, year-on-ydar, when

:53:43.:53:47.

he talked about these issues, that it was openness and transparency of

:53:48.:53:51.

these registers that matter. He said in 2013, to the Crown dependencies

:53:52.:53:57.

and overseas territories, that they would have to rip aside the cloak of

:53:58.:54:03.

secrecy by creating a public register of beneficial ownership. He

:54:04.:54:08.

said in April 2014, when he wrote to the overseas territories, bdneficial

:54:09.:54:11.

ownership and public access to the central register is key to hmproving

:54:12.:54:18.

the transparency of company ownership and vital to meethng the

:54:19.:54:23.

urgent challenges of illicit finance and tax evasion. He said he hoped

:54:24.:54:27.

overseas charities would follow suit to consult on a public registry and

:54:28.:54:31.

look at what we were doing here in the UK. He said on a trip to the

:54:32.:54:36.

Caribbean in September 20 14th, some of the British Crown dependdncies

:54:37.:54:41.

and overseas territories ard making progress in this direction. Others

:54:42.:54:44.

are not moving anywhere near fast enough. I say to them all today

:54:45.:54:50.

including those in this reghon, the Caribbean, if we want to brdak the

:54:51.:54:54.

business model of stealing loney and crowding it in places where it

:54:55.:54:59.

cannot be seen, transparencx is the answer. And he said, when wd

:55:00.:55:04.

established our own public register here in the UK, there are m`ny wider

:55:05.:55:09.

benefits to making this information available to everyone. It is better

:55:10.:55:13.

for business here and we will be able to identify who really owns the

:55:14.:55:17.

companies they are trading with It is better for developing cotntries

:55:18.:55:21.

who have easy access to all this data without having to submht

:55:22.:55:25.

endless requests for each lhne of enquiry. It is better for us all to

:55:26.:55:29.

have a system which everyond has access to because the more dyes that

:55:30.:55:33.

look at this information, the more accurate it will be. I would simply

:55:34.:55:38.

say to the minister, I really do agree, in this instance, with the

:55:39.:55:46.

former Prime Minister, and H hope the present government will listen

:55:47.:55:49.

carefully to the wise words that he had to say. I am very grateful to

:55:50.:55:53.

the Honourable Lady for givhng way. She is making a very powerftl speech

:55:54.:55:58.

was that does she agree with me that the Government can be comforted that

:55:59.:56:01.

extending this transparency to the tax havens would be a very popular

:56:02.:56:06.

myth that the public? It shows over two thirds of people think the

:56:07.:56:09.

Government should do this and research published by Oxfam shows

:56:10.:56:13.

there are high levels of support for extending this transparency across

:56:14.:56:14.

the political spectrum. I have seen that survey, and I think

:56:15.:56:22.

any action the Minister would take would be warmly welcomed by the

:56:23.:56:27.

public across the whole of the United Kingdom of all ages `nd

:56:28.:56:31.

genders. It is a really important bit of work which I hope thd

:56:32.:56:36.

Minister will take seriouslx. And I am concerned by the actions so far.

:56:37.:56:42.

I am concerned that in Decelber 2015 we had the joint ministerial

:56:43.:56:46.

Council, the Government failed to persuade those territories to

:56:47.:56:49.

implement public registers. I am concerned that in March 2014 the

:56:50.:56:54.

Cayman Isles and the British virgin Isles refused to meet Ministers from

:56:55.:56:59.

the Foreign Office and the Treasury. I am concerned that they fahled to

:57:00.:57:02.

meet the financial Secretarx's request that they would adopt

:57:03.:57:07.

registers by 2015. I am concerned that they have ignored lettdrs from

:57:08.:57:11.

UK Government Ministers, and I am deeply concerned, and I hopd

:57:12.:57:16.

Ministers can answer this point that tax isn't even on the `genda

:57:17.:57:25.

for the forthcoming meeting. We do have the powers, we have usdd them

:57:26.:57:30.

before as the honourable lady told us earlier. The Government lust act,

:57:31.:57:36.

and I would say even this. Hf the Minister could today tell us that

:57:37.:57:41.

these things have a timelind at the end of which, if matters cannot be

:57:42.:57:47.

resolved in a collective and collaborative way with the overseas

:57:48.:57:50.

territories and the Crown dependencies, the Government will

:57:51.:57:54.

use its power, I think that would go a long way to settling the concerns

:57:55.:57:59.

of many of us, so I hope he can at least consider that as a possibility

:58:00.:58:04.

for taking the matter forward. Can I just briefly comment on somd of the

:58:05.:58:09.

other provisions in what I say is a warmly welcome bit of legislation.

:58:10.:58:14.

On the unexplained wealth orders, I think it is particularly welcome

:58:15.:58:18.

that they will be applicabld, no matter where in the world the

:58:19.:58:23.

offence takes place. But can I ask in two questions. If the money comes

:58:24.:58:28.

from an overseas territory, from a developing territory, will there be

:58:29.:58:37.

a notification to that country of the setting of an unexplaindd wealth

:58:38.:58:42.

order? Again in that our enforcement agencies will be somewhat more

:58:43.:58:48.

capable and some of the othdrs in pursuing that laundered mondy? I am

:58:49.:58:55.

grateful to the honourable lady I can get an exact answer to xour

:58:56.:58:58.

question. Around that we have started to sign agreements with a

:58:59.:59:03.

number of countries, we signed in August with Nigeria to help them

:59:04.:59:05.

recover their assets without barriers from here to there and for

:59:06.:59:11.

us to give them assistance both in their country and hear about better

:59:12.:59:15.

tackling crime, and once thdy find it, getting back to them as soon as

:59:16.:59:19.

we can. I am grateful to thd Minister. I wonder whether he could

:59:20.:59:24.

explain why the orders don't apply to people inside the EEA, and

:59:25.:59:32.

whether or not he would be looking again at that issue, becausd I think

:59:33.:59:35.

that occasionally may be relevant and important. That is quitd

:59:36.:59:43.

straightforward. We are unable under EU law to discriminate against

:59:44.:59:48.

different members of the EE@, what we do for the UK citizens wd also

:59:49.:59:53.

have to do for other members of the EU. There are two other isstes I

:59:54.:00:03.

wish to raise. One arises ott of a debate that has been held in the

:00:04.:00:07.

House in March 2012, and it was initiated by the honourable member

:00:08.:00:11.

for Esher and Walton on what is known as the mad Nitschke alendment,

:00:12.:00:21.

and it relates to and it relates to the

:00:22.:00:45.

brutal murder of the Russian Sergei Magnitsky who accidentally tncovered

:00:46.:00:49.

money-laundering in his country and was subsequently murdered. The

:00:50.:00:58.

amendment has been enacted hn America, and what it would do is

:00:59.:01:02.

ensure that those foreign individuals involved in corruption

:01:03.:01:07.

and human rights abuses, th`t is a slight difference, they havd their

:01:08.:01:13.

assets frozen, I denied right of entry to this country and that they

:01:14.:01:21.

are publicly named and shamdd. And again, I think there is strong

:01:22.:01:24.

cross-party for support for trying to get what is known as the

:01:25.:01:30.

Magnitsky style amendment introduced into UK legislation, and I would

:01:31.:01:34.

hope that he would look favourably on that. As I have looked at the

:01:35.:01:38.

details of that, one of the particularly disturbing aspdct of it

:01:39.:01:43.

is how many of our UK banks according to evidence given to the

:01:44.:01:47.

Home Affairs Select Committde were involved in laundering the `lleged

:01:48.:01:57.

$30 million into the UK, HSBC, NatWest, Bank of Scotland, RBS,

:01:58.:02:00.

Citibank, bank of, Lloyds TSB and the bank of Tokyo. So I was hoping

:02:01.:02:07.

that out of that horrific tragedy, we might be able to introduce

:02:08.:02:13.

something which I think would be an important change in our leghslative

:02:14.:02:19.

aspect. The final thing I w`nted to talk about was the corporatd failure

:02:20.:02:23.

to prevent tax evasion, which other members have talked about. @gain I

:02:24.:02:29.

welcome this as the first attempt to place responsibility for tax evasion

:02:30.:02:32.

not just on individuals but on the corporations. However, this is a

:02:33.:02:39.

very, very small first step towards making those who are responsible for

:02:40.:02:44.

devising, advising, facilit`ting evasion and avoidance actually also

:02:45.:02:50.

accountable for their actions. And I think it is worth before we go over

:02:51.:02:56.

the top on saying what a grdat change it is, it is only whdre there

:02:57.:03:01.

has been a criminal offence successfully prosecuted agahnst an

:03:02.:03:05.

individual, it is only wherd there has been an offence against an

:03:06.:03:10.

individual adviser working for the corporation, it doesn't covdr

:03:11.:03:13.

negligence by the corporation, it doesn't make the corporation

:03:14.:03:18.

responsible for the crimes of its staff, it doesn't cover aggressive

:03:19.:03:23.

tax avoidance and unlike my are bought members on the opposhte

:03:24.:03:33.

bench, that is where the important attention needs to be and wd simply

:03:34.:03:40.

ask that procedures are in place so that it is not fail-safe procedures.

:03:41.:03:46.

As I thought through some of the instances we had, where durhng my

:03:47.:03:51.

time in showing the Public @ccounts Committee, where corporations we

:03:52.:03:56.

felt were misbehaving, I don't think it would cover

:03:57.:03:57.

PricewaterhouseCoopers and `ll the stuff that it was doing in

:03:58.:04:02.

Luxembourg, where it was cldarly selling schemes on an industrial

:04:03.:04:08.

way, which had no other purpose than to avoid tax. We had a disctssion

:04:09.:04:13.

this morning, earlier on today, about Heathrow and the Brithsh

:04:14.:04:19.

Airways authority and Heathrow have managed to avoid paying a hdck of a

:04:20.:04:23.

lot of tax on massive billion pounds profits that they have made there.

:04:24.:04:29.

And I don't think it would cover, and this is really important, that

:04:30.:04:33.

when we interviewed advertisers on the advice they give to corporations

:04:34.:04:37.

and individuals around tax, they will give advice as long as there is

:04:38.:04:43.

a 50% chance that it is not challenged by HMRC, so the reverse

:04:44.:04:48.

of that is that there are a 50% chance that it will be challenged,

:04:49.:04:54.

but HMRC, given the enormitx of the task and the limited nature of their

:04:55.:04:58.

resources, it takes a long time to catch up with these schemes, and

:04:59.:05:03.

they don't have the resourcds that some of these big accountancy firms,

:05:04.:05:07.

advisers, banks, lawyers and so on do have. So that is not caught by

:05:08.:05:18.

the very welcome but small leasure that has been taken. The only thing

:05:19.:05:22.

I could think that would be caught out of all the work we did hs the

:05:23.:05:26.

actions of HSBC when the nonexecutive director Rona Fairhead

:05:27.:05:31.

gave evidence to us, and sotght to blame in that particular instance

:05:32.:05:36.

the whistle-blower for being a thief, which I thought was pretty

:05:37.:05:41.

awful, and then blamed front line staff are doing what was obviously

:05:42.:05:44.

expected of them by the org`nisation for which they work, and shd is a

:05:45.:05:50.

nonexecutive director earning half ?1 million a year from her

:05:51.:05:55.

nonexecutive duties in HSBC felt she had no responsibility to ensure

:05:56.:05:58.

corporate governance, so I could see it perhaps catching that sort of

:05:59.:06:04.

instance, but it is very lilited, and again, I would welcome `s we go

:06:05.:06:08.

through this bill if there `re opportunities to extend what I think

:06:09.:06:13.

is a very important first step to ensuring corporate liabilitx as well

:06:14.:06:16.

as individual liability and accountability for actions taken in

:06:17.:06:20.

that context, and I warmly welcome the Bill and hope the Minister can

:06:21.:06:25.

take the further steps I suggested. It is a pleasure to follow one from

:06:26.:06:29.

the right honourable member for Barking, and I would also lhke to

:06:30.:06:33.

place on record that I must be the second nonlawyer speaking this

:06:34.:06:36.

afternoon. I rise to support the Bill, and in particular the

:06:37.:06:39.

provisions which relate to countering terrorism financhng. Back

:06:40.:06:45.

in November last year, shortly after the horrific terrorist attacks in

:06:46.:06:50.

Paris, I wrote to the then Prime Minister, my right honourable friend

:06:51.:06:55.

the Member for Witney. I rahsed my concern is that oversees funding

:06:56.:06:58.

received by religious or edtcational establishment in this country which

:06:59.:07:04.

radicalise and promote extrdmist values, basic criminality,

:07:05.:07:07.

regardless of how they network, individuals, mosques, schools or

:07:08.:07:13.

community groups. I argued that if an organisation is unwilling to

:07:14.:07:16.

agree to a set of tolerant principles which society considers

:07:17.:07:21.

acceptable, it is not unreasonable to prevent them receiving dtbious

:07:22.:07:25.

funding from overseas. I am not naive to the accusation that this

:07:26.:07:30.

approach could in itself be seen as intolerant, but we have accdpted

:07:31.:07:34.

that there are rules which funders of political parties and unhons must

:07:35.:07:40.

adhere to, so why not funders of other institutions? Extremism is a

:07:41.:07:44.

symptom of criminal ideologx, and we must cut off any finance whhch

:07:45.:07:48.

helped to spread ideology which promotes criminality, extrelism and

:07:49.:07:52.

violence. This bill builds on the Government's action plan for

:07:53.:07:57.

anti-money-laundering and counterterrorist finance, bx putting

:07:58.:08:02.

into law one of the main prhnciples of the plan, greater inform`tion

:08:03.:08:04.

sharing between the private and public sectors. It goes without

:08:05.:08:09.

saying that we cannot disrupt terrorist financing unless we know

:08:10.:08:12.

about it, and I welcome the fact that this bill fully recognhses

:08:13.:08:16.

that, and proposes concrete measures that reflect it, measures to

:08:17.:08:19.

introduce a disclosure order regime under the Terrorism Act offdring new

:08:20.:08:25.

opportunities to undercover illicit financing of terrorists or dxtremist

:08:26.:08:29.

related behaviour and the promotion of criminality. We have alrdady seen

:08:30.:08:35.

the benefits of accredited financial investigators in proceeds of crime

:08:36.:08:41.

investigations, and it is rhght that those benefits will be extended to

:08:42.:08:49.

counterterrorism investigathons Mr Deputy Speaker, I believe that we

:08:50.:08:53.

still need to go further with provisions which are not appropriate

:08:54.:08:56.

for inclusion in this bill, but which would in my view strengthen

:08:57.:09:01.

its provisions. Mr Deputy Speaker, if I could be so bold as to make a

:09:02.:09:07.

suggestion, for example, thd vast majorities of churches are

:09:08.:09:09.

registered as charities, whhch means that their finances are transparent.

:09:10.:09:15.

I would suggest a formal register of mosques in the United Kingdom that

:09:16.:09:18.

would make it far easier to investigate their financial affairs,

:09:19.:09:22.

and fundamentally, their recruitment of Imams, especially if thex are

:09:23.:09:28.

overseas, and somehow understanding the brand of -- strand of Islam they

:09:29.:09:34.

wish to promote, and it would flush out intolerant ideas that ptt us at

:09:35.:09:41.

risk from criminals which those ideas are used to justify. Lr Deputy

:09:42.:09:47.

Speaker, the Islam came to this country with the communities that

:09:48.:09:50.

settled here is not the Isl`m that is being exported by Daesh today. It

:09:51.:10:00.

is our duty to protect commtnities from this foreign death cult and

:10:01.:10:05.

show that we stand by them hn countering extremism. As a lember of

:10:06.:10:09.

the Home Affairs Select Comlittee, I have seen all the evidence H need to

:10:10.:10:12.

justify our hard-headed responses to the threat of terrorism and criminal

:10:13.:10:17.

extremism. I hope that the Government will consider th`t

:10:18.:10:21.

particular step when the appropriate vehicle for it arises. As of June

:10:22.:10:30.

this year, there were a people in custody for terrorism offences and

:10:31.:10:34.

extremism, but there are sthll individuals based overseas whose aim

:10:35.:10:44.

is to spread intolerance and violence, and that spreads `cross

:10:45.:10:48.

borders. Terrorist groups nded access to well funded networks, and

:10:49.:10:55.

they are becoming increasingly complex and sophisticated. Ht is a

:10:56.:11:01.

challenge to accurately trace the flow of funds, but one thing remains

:11:02.:11:06.

the same, the objectives of terrorists. They seek to divide our

:11:07.:11:12.

communities, to spread fear and hate and undermined the good work of

:11:13.:11:16.

community leaders who do evdrything they can, often in the face of an

:11:17.:11:20.

helpful competition to make sure that amenities are safe.

:11:21.:11:26.

Counter-terrorism financing will take another step in preventing the

:11:27.:11:30.

spread of organised crime and terrorism. This bill offers the

:11:31.:11:33.

Government support to those leaders of communities and makes us all

:11:34.:11:37.

safer, and undermines the fhnancial management of terror groups and

:11:38.:11:40.

coordinate legal measures to combat them, and I therefore more lilli

:11:41.:11:41.

bulk of it. -- warmly welcole it. May I congratulate on a rather

:11:42.:11:57.

sufficient speech. What she was talking about brings us togdther.

:11:58.:12:01.

Also it's a pleasure to follow the member for barking. She was a

:12:02.:12:06.

commendable former chair of the Public Accounts Committee, of which

:12:07.:12:16.

I am a member. Many people `re very pleased she is not the chair

:12:17.:12:22.

anymore. I am not one of those. Mr Deputy Speaker, for too long law

:12:23.:12:26.

enforcement agencies have h`d to fight organised crime and tdrrorism

:12:27.:12:30.

with one arm effectively behind their backs. It is not posshble to

:12:31.:12:35.

counter organised crime and terrorism as effectively as needed

:12:36.:12:38.

without the power to properly investigate and confiscate criminal

:12:39.:12:44.

property and the proceeds of crime. Broadly speaking, I like many

:12:45.:12:48.

speakers today, support most of the measures outlined in principle. I

:12:49.:12:52.

believe it is right that those who have gained assets under suspicious

:12:53.:12:55.

circumstances should be askdd to explain where they came frol. Where

:12:56.:13:00.

it is found they are involvdd in a crime and the assets are thd

:13:01.:13:04.

proceeds of that crime, Law enforcement should be able to

:13:05.:13:07.

confiscate and seize assets beyond cash. This is the only way to ensure

:13:08.:13:15.

that justice is done and for the proceeds of crime to be rettrned

:13:16.:13:18.

into the system and used for public good. With regard to financhal

:13:19.:13:25.

crimes, information sharing between banks is key to investigation. I am

:13:26.:13:29.

very pleased to see the measures have been included in the bhll to

:13:30.:13:34.

improve this. I would ask the minister, is there any comeback from

:13:35.:13:39.

the banks? In the past, when they have talked about sharing d`ta, they

:13:40.:13:45.

have been very reticent bec`use of competition purposes. I hopd this

:13:46.:13:52.

will be brought out in the bill Likewise, I am pleased at the

:13:53.:13:54.

shocking revelations in the so-called Panama papers earlier this

:13:55.:13:57.

year that the Government is fulfilling its commitment to be

:13:58.:14:03.

tough on the middleman. Involved in tax evasion and other financial

:14:04.:14:09.

crimes. It is vital the corporations and their employees involved in

:14:10.:14:13.

facilitating tax evasion and other financial crimes in the UK `nd

:14:14.:14:17.

internationally must be held to account. I also welcome the

:14:18.:14:22.

inclusion of investigations into terrorism financing in the bill It

:14:23.:14:28.

is vital if we are to clamp down on bile and extremism and we do not

:14:29.:14:33.

have access to resources thdy need to commission that acts of dvil

:14:34.:14:38.

However, there are certain dlements of the bill which I believe our

:14:39.:14:42.

final ball to be undermined. Although the measures set ott would

:14:43.:14:49.

apply in the United Kingdom, it would not appear they would apply in

:14:50.:14:55.

British Overseas Territories and Crown to millions. This problem must

:14:56.:14:59.

be addressed. Otherwise I fdar the bill is at risk of being severely

:15:00.:15:05.

weakened and the power to investigate crime will be wdakened.

:15:06.:15:09.

British Overseas Territories, including the Cayman Islands and the

:15:10.:15:14.

British virgin islands, havd extremely lamentable policids with

:15:15.:15:18.

regards to transparency. I know the former Prime Minister was ddsperate

:15:19.:15:22.

to bring about change this xear I pay tribute to his work in this

:15:23.:15:27.

area. For me, these islands literally harbour money. As the

:15:28.:15:32.

registered homes to some of the most largest and valuable super xachts in

:15:33.:15:35.

the world. If anyone wants to walk across a harbour in Spain and Italy

:15:36.:15:40.

and see this dashes of their huge superyacht is of the Russian

:15:41.:15:45.

oligarchs and CBI registered to the Cayman Islands, one has to `sk why a

:15:46.:15:50.

Russian oligarch finds the Cayman Islands so attractive in whhch to

:15:51.:15:55.

register his vote. It could be the weather but I wonder if it could be

:15:56.:16:02.

something a bit more sinistdr. - his yacht. A timetable has not yet

:16:03.:16:10.

been agreed to provide central registers. This can be used to

:16:11.:16:18.

launder money and hide aspects. If the Government intention behind the

:16:19.:16:22.

bill is to tackle money-laundering and corruption, to recover the

:16:23.:16:27.

proceeds of crime, you will find that game could be undermindd.

:16:28.:16:33.

Moving money between secrethve trusts and offshore companids, some

:16:34.:16:36.

of the most serious and org`nised criminals including those who

:16:37.:16:40.

commission acts of terrorisl could still operate. The need to tackle

:16:41.:16:45.

organised crime and terrorism is important from a domestic

:16:46.:16:50.

standpoint. It is important we play our part to tackle internathonal

:16:51.:16:54.

corruption. The World Bank tndertook a review of 213 serious corruption

:16:55.:16:59.

cases. They found secret colpany ownership switch relied upon in

:17:00.:17:07.

order to facilitate corrupthon in 70% of those cases. The UK `longside

:17:08.:17:12.

other overseas territories `nd Crown dominions provided the second

:17:13.:17:16.

largest numbers of these colpanies. That demands urgent action. It is

:17:17.:17:22.

sometimes hard for us to understand the serious effects of corrtption,

:17:23.:17:26.

as in mainland Britain and Northern Ireland, corruption is largdly under

:17:27.:17:30.

control and swiftly dealt whth whenever it emerges. However,

:17:31.:17:36.

developing countries, the mhsuse of public funds has a devastathng

:17:37.:17:42.

effect. The Africa progress panel found that 1.35 billion was stolen

:17:43.:17:46.

from the citizens of the Delocratic Republic of Congo. That was due to

:17:47.:17:52.

the sale of mining contracts for just 16 of the commercial v`lue The

:17:53.:17:57.

contracts were sold to five anonymous companies, based hn the

:17:58.:18:02.

British virgin islands. To give some perspective of the scale of this

:18:03.:18:07.

lost to the people of the Ddmocratic Republic of Congo, the 1.35 billion

:18:08.:18:13.

figure is twice the health `nd education budget of that cotntry

:18:14.:18:17.

combined. It is simply a devastating loss. For a country that has a

:18:18.:18:23.

history of corruption, murddr, death and execution, and all the tragic

:18:24.:18:27.

background which has seen m`ny women and girls and children becole

:18:28.:18:33.

victims of a tyrant, this again is another sad chapter in that

:18:34.:18:41.

country's long and tragic hhstory. I believe it may be unwise for the UK

:18:42.:18:47.

Government to unnecessarily force British Overseas Territories and

:18:48.:18:50.

Crown to millions due to constitutional problems to create

:18:51.:18:54.

greater transparency through inclusion in this particular bill.

:18:55.:18:58.

It is clear that government action must be taken. Earlier this year,

:18:59.:19:03.

the former Prime Minister l`id out commitment to transparency, which I

:19:04.:19:08.

welcomed. And has urged all British Overseas Territories and Crown

:19:09.:19:13.

dominions to make changes. This is an important step forward. The

:19:14.:19:17.

mentor has fallen away and lore action must be taken. Real people

:19:18.:19:25.

are losing out every single day as a result of international correction.

:19:26.:19:29.

Organised crime and terrorism. If the Government is serious about

:19:30.:19:33.

countering it and meeting a duty not only to ourselves but others around

:19:34.:19:37.

the world, they must now stop dragging their feet over wh`t I

:19:38.:19:41.

believe is a very important issue. In summary, as I mentioned, I

:19:42.:19:46.

welcome the principle behind this bill. I'd feel it will simply not do

:19:47.:19:51.

the job as intended. I look to the Government and the opposition to

:19:52.:19:57.

move amendments to improve this bill. The Government is not covering

:19:58.:20:00.

all the bases, particularly with regard to British Overseas

:20:01.:20:03.

Territories and Crown Dominhcans -- crowned dominions. The Government

:20:04.:20:13.

must act its words with acthons It must put pressure on British

:20:14.:20:17.

Overseas Territories to embrace transparency. Only when transparency

:20:18.:20:24.

has been achieved will be change. Ensuring that UK-based international

:20:25.:20:27.

criminals and terrorists ard stripped of resources and otr

:20:28.:20:30.

citizens, wherever they livd, are safe. Thank you very much. H have

:20:31.:20:38.

not been in a debate before where the Honourable member has

:20:39.:20:46.

participated and now we havd the privilege of two in one day. It is

:20:47.:20:51.

good. It is strange standing here talking about the criminal finances

:20:52.:20:54.

bill. A lot of what we are discussing will be totally `lien and

:20:55.:21:00.

completely baffling to many of my constituents in Aberdeen North. I

:21:01.:21:03.

think many of them will be sitting there thinking, why are we doing

:21:04.:21:08.

this stuff already? Why has it taken so long for governments to get round

:21:09.:21:14.

to bringing in some of thesd issues, particularly in relation to

:21:15.:21:18.

unexplained wealth orders? H am supportive of this and think it is a

:21:19.:21:21.

good idea to be bringing re`son Many people are wondering why this

:21:22.:21:28.

has not happened before. Most of my constituents will only ever earn

:21:29.:21:33.

money through PAYE. They pax tax through PAYE. They will not see

:21:34.:21:38.

corporation tax or any of the taxes we are talking about today `nd they

:21:39.:21:42.

will not therefore know quite how complex the UK tax code is. They

:21:43.:21:47.

will not be aware that it t`kes a whole van to transport the tax

:21:48.:21:51.

codes, as is regularly menthoned in this chamber. I am aware th`t

:21:52.:21:57.

reputations are lame two th`t are positively encouraged. The tax code

:21:58.:22:03.

being so complex means it's berry easy for people to find loopholes in

:22:04.:22:07.

it and to exploit those loopholes. I appreciate the measures the

:22:08.:22:11.

Government is taking today to attempt to move towards closing at

:22:12.:22:16.

least some of those loopholds. There are some fairly glaring omissions.

:22:17.:22:21.

As was mentioned by Mike Honourable colleague from Dumfries and

:22:22.:22:23.

Galloway, I am sure will be mentioned by my honourable friend

:22:24.:22:31.

for kick and Cowdenbeath, the partnerships are still misshng from

:22:32.:22:35.

theirs. We have brought it tp. It was widely reported in the Herald. I

:22:36.:22:42.

think people in Scotland, who have read these articles, will bd very

:22:43.:22:47.

clear this is something the UK Government is absolutely nedds to

:22:48.:22:50.

fix and can do so relativelx easily because of the high percent`ge of

:22:51.:22:56.

these SLP 's that are being used for crime and financing crime. There are

:22:57.:22:59.

a few other things I wanted to mention. The Honourable member for

:23:00.:23:05.

Harborough talked about the Victorian principles behind some of

:23:06.:23:10.

the things we have in finance and tax law. I think that is thd big

:23:11.:23:16.

problem we have. A lot of these laws have evolved over a number of years

:23:17.:23:19.

and there has never been a wholescale review. Let's take it all

:23:20.:23:25.

apart and start again. Let's tinker a bit. In some ways, Scotland, when

:23:26.:23:30.

we have the demolition of some of the tax powers was in a much better

:23:31.:23:34.

position because we can start with much more of a clean slate. Our

:23:35.:23:41.

general anti-avoidance rule was said by a convener of tax law, the tax

:23:42.:23:47.

law subcommittee, she said the general anti-avoidance rule in

:23:48.:23:52.

Scotland is much fiercer th`n the UK one. I think it has widely been

:23:53.:23:56.

commented that the Scottish Government has been in this position

:23:57.:24:00.

to have a much stronger law and a much stronger rule. That has been

:24:01.:24:06.

beneficial for us in terms of admin devolved taxes. Just a couple more

:24:07.:24:10.

things I want to bring art. I want to bring up the HMRC officers. My

:24:11.:24:17.

colleague mentioned both wh`t we are calling for is a moratorium for

:24:18.:24:22.

closure of HMRC officers. If we re going to be trying to say this is a

:24:23.:24:27.

massive priority for us, a lassive priority for the UK, making sure the

:24:28.:24:31.

tax loopholes are closed and making sure that criminals are not

:24:32.:24:37.

exploiting the tax and also particularly with tax evasion, then

:24:38.:24:42.

it seems really bizarre to be choosing to close offices r`ther

:24:43.:24:47.

than actually having more staff and more resource spent on ensuring

:24:48.:24:50.

these exploitations are not happening. I would appreciate if you

:24:51.:24:55.

could consider again the loss of these important officers and these

:24:56.:25:00.

important and very dedicated staff members as well. I think th`t is one

:25:01.:25:05.

of the key things. I also w`nted to talk about the fact that wh`t the

:25:06.:25:13.

Government is doing or how the current system is set up, it does

:25:14.:25:18.

not encourage people to havd confidence in the economic system.

:25:19.:25:21.

It is much like the House of Commons. The House of Commons is set

:25:22.:25:25.

up in a very traditional wave of the standing orders were written

:25:26.:25:29.

hundreds of years ago. They do not encourage for transparency. They do

:25:30.:25:34.

not encourage people to be confident in the system because they `llow

:25:35.:25:38.

some people to have too much power. It is much that the tax law and the

:25:39.:25:43.

tax code is much the same. They are too old some of them and thdy have

:25:44.:25:46.

been tinkered with rather than wholescale changed. And thex

:25:47.:25:55.

encourage and allow some of those people who are in receipt of

:25:56.:25:59.

millions and millions and mhllions of pounds to continue to have

:26:00.:26:02.

millions and millions and mhllions of bands without paying the

:26:03.:26:05.

appropriate tax most people at the bottom do not see that. One of the

:26:06.:26:09.

problems with the current sxstem is that nobody has confidence hn it.

:26:10.:26:13.

Criminals have worked out how they can get around and they continue to

:26:14.:26:17.

sow do. People at the bottol of the pile, who are not involved hn paying

:26:18.:26:21.

his taxes or seeing the crilinal proceeds do not have confiddnce in

:26:22.:26:27.

this will stop the Government will have a real job of work to do if it

:26:28.:26:30.

wants to ensure that bills like this one actually bring back confidence

:26:31.:26:34.

in our tax and regulatory sxstems. My colleague was talking about the

:26:35.:26:39.

free market economy in Amerhca and some of the moves they have made.

:26:40.:26:46.

If we were to make moves in terms of financial regulation partictlarly

:26:47.:26:52.

around property ownership in relation to London and owners who

:26:53.:26:58.

own vast swathes of land in the Scottish Highlands those thhngs

:26:59.:27:05.

would inspire more confidence in the general public. The honourable

:27:06.:27:20.

member from Barking and my college from Edinburgh mentioned thd new

:27:21.:27:23.

government ball and the confidence in these measures and the concerns

:27:24.:27:29.

of the government in tax ev`sion and counter dependencies. Because this

:27:30.:27:32.

is being so widely reported in the news the public are really concerned

:27:33.:27:36.

about it and I think the fact that the government have not included

:27:37.:27:40.

within this bill and have not provided to Parliament a tiletable

:27:41.:27:45.

for public ownership registdrs being made available I think that

:27:46.:27:50.

increases their concerns further the quicker the government can come

:27:51.:27:52.

forward with even just a tileline to tell us when these things whll be

:27:53.:27:58.

made public, then the better for the confidence of the general ptblic in

:27:59.:28:01.

the tax system. As my colle`gue from the tax system. As my colle`gue from

:28:02.:28:05.

Dumfries Galloway said at this stage we're generally supportive of

:28:06.:28:08.

some of the measures that are in this bill but we do not feel it goes

:28:09.:28:12.

far enough especially to inspire public confidence in the me`sures

:28:13.:28:19.

that the government are takhng. Although much of this bill hs seen

:28:20.:28:33.

this way to many people in this chamber, all the critical

:28:34.:28:35.

of not being what is on the bill of not being what is on the bill

:28:36.:28:39.

that is what is not in the Bill and I think that spans every party that

:28:40.:28:45.

is spoken so far. Abbas strtck at the opening remarks to the Linister

:28:46.:28:48.

and there was wondering who was when to put this really in the context of

:28:49.:28:51.

the challenge that we face `nd I think this is best done by the

:28:52.:28:56.

Security minister when necessarily the marks he said on becoming a

:28:57.:29:02.

minister that the extent of criminality, and I think a court

:29:03.:29:08.

correctly, it takes the bre`th away. -- I caught him correctly. H think

:29:09.:29:19.

this bill does not quite take the breath away an extent it will deal

:29:20.:29:23.

with criminality. I would lhke to comment on three areas that had been

:29:24.:29:28.

mentioned so far. The first is looking at the permissive ctlture of

:29:29.:29:33.

banks. The best example I h`ve had, the best critic of this has come not

:29:34.:29:38.

from myself for anybody currently in this chamber but was back on the

:29:39.:29:43.

24th of May of this year from the Right Honourable

:29:44.:29:45.

Rushcliffe. He commented th`t when Rushcliffe. He commented th`t when

:29:46.:29:51.

talking about this forthcomhng bill and I quote, we in this country are

:29:52.:29:55.

very bad at dealing with white-collar crime and that is a

:29:56.:29:58.

growing awareness of that. Hf someone wishes to rob a bank they go

:29:59.:30:05.

to the market and did not ptt on a to the market and did not ptt on a

:30:06.:30:11.

balaclava and pick up a shot gun, that would be much less profitable.

:30:12.:30:16.

He was drying out the probldm very succinctly about the problel of the

:30:17.:30:20.

culture in banks which has created a context where it is easier to

:30:21.:30:27.

perform grand crimes than it is external to the banks, on the

:30:28.:30:34.

external old-fashioned robbdr. He went on to say London are still the

:30:35.:30:39.

money-laundering capital of the world. London is the best place for

:30:40.:30:47.

a serious international crilinal to put their money because the contrast

:30:48.:30:50.

the bankers to look after it and not steal from them. And he went on to

:30:51.:30:55.

conclude that I hope we will also impose a duty on those at the head

:30:56.:31:00.

of institutions involved to ensure they take positive steps to stop

:31:01.:31:06.

those working for them encotraging such activities. I doubt if anybody

:31:07.:31:10.

would disagree in this debate today about the words of the Right

:31:11.:31:14.

Honourable member for Rushcliffe. But those words spoken back in May,

:31:15.:31:20.

spoken back in May, I don't think spoken back in May, I don't think

:31:21.:31:26.

are fulfilled by the realitx of what we face. I think in terms of banking

:31:27.:31:32.

there are two things I would suggest to the minister that maybe looked

:31:33.:31:33.

out. The first, and no The Right out. The first, and no The Right

:31:34.:31:42.

Honourable lady from Barking is no longer in a place that she raised

:31:43.:31:47.

the example of the Bank of Scotland and what happened with somebody who

:31:48.:31:51.

is willing to speak up and was then pilloried by senior managemdnt

:31:52.:31:55.

the Minister that one thing that the Minister that one thing that

:31:56.:32:00.

needs doing is a strengthenhng of whistle-blowing within the banking

:32:01.:32:05.

and financial sector. If we could find a mechanism to encourage people

:32:06.:32:10.

to speak up about criminality are bad practice, that in itself would

:32:11.:32:14.

be a useful measure. The second thing I would suggest the Mhnister

:32:15.:32:22.

is I have many people commenting to me that the crisis in 2008 hn the

:32:23.:32:27.

banking sector was predomin`ntly not because of details of regul`tion but

:32:28.:32:35.

because of culture at top ldvel because of groupthink in thd boards

:32:36.:32:37.

of banks. It was because of the of banks. It was because of

:32:38.:32:40.

overconfidence of individual chief overconfidence of individual chief

:32:41.:32:45.

executives who were immune to considering anything other than a

:32:46.:32:49.

dash for cash. I would think would be useful if we could build in some

:32:50.:32:55.

requirement for proper culttral analysis built in to banking sector.

:32:56.:33:01.

The second area that I want to comment on, which has already been

:33:02.:33:03.

hinted at by my two colleagtes but hinted at by my two colleagtes but

:33:04.:33:08.

no one else is talked about this debate thus far is the topic of

:33:09.:33:13.

Scottish Limited partnerships. This might be a new topic for sole of the

:33:14.:33:16.

members in this chamber so `llow me to give just a few examples.

:33:17.:33:22.

Scottish limited partnerships and not a new phenomenon and thdy are

:33:23.:33:27.

not do bold phenomenon, thex are a matter for this House. They were

:33:28.:33:33.

created in the budget in 1907 by ask with. Even I don't remember it.

:33:34.:33:46.

-- Herbert Asquith. Although it was great 1907 since 2008 it has

:33:47.:33:54.

used more extensively for common used more extensively for common

:33:55.:34:01.

behaviour and the use of it has risen 40% year-on-year. These seem

:34:02.:34:07.

to have been at the heart of some of the major corruption scandals in the

:34:08.:34:13.

world, for example Scottish limited partnerships have been named in

:34:14.:34:18.

major corruption scandals involving the former Soviet Union and

:34:19.:34:22.

particularly Ukraine were there still currently being openlx

:34:23.:34:27.

marketed as off-the-peg zero tax offshore companies. Elsewhere some

:34:28.:34:35.

Scottish limited partnership at the moment is at the heart of a $1

:34:36.:34:43.

billion digital book case in the States. The international monetary

:34:44.:34:48.

fund itself has warned that the risk posed by S LPs to the fight against

:34:49.:34:55.

global money-laundering and organised crime is something that

:34:56.:34:59.

needs to be given attention to. Other Scottish limited partnerships

:35:00.:35:02.

and involved in pornographic, paedophilia website and the span of

:35:03.:35:10.

financial vehicles seems to know financial vehicles seems to know

:35:11.:35:11.

absolutely no bones. Closer to home, absolutely no bones. Closer to home,

:35:12.:35:17.

the Herald newspaper which hs done extraordinary work in this `rea

:35:18.:35:22.

revealed Bailey six days ago that the tax haven owned by Lord Ashcroft

:35:23.:35:29.

is being used without his pdrmission as a base to set up dozens of firms

:35:30.:35:40.

utilising SLP loopholes linked to a known fraudster. Two those companies

:35:41.:35:46.

have forced to -- have been falsely using the address of Lord Ashcroft

:35:47.:35:52.

's bank for only six years. These secretive businesses, and I can name

:35:53.:35:58.

them, Sherbrooke assets and football solutions -- Whittemore. Have formed

:35:59.:36:06.

other Scottish entities, most of them registered to a convicted

:36:07.:36:12.

fraudster who lives in Fife in Scotland. This bill should be

:36:13.:36:20.

ensuring that every SLP and similar financial vehicles elsewherd in the

:36:21.:36:26.

UK is exposed to rigorous dhligence at the very least. In the rdcent

:36:27.:36:34.

Finance Bill I attempted to move a very simple new clause callhng on

:36:35.:36:42.

the government to investigate SLP is. The government chose to put it

:36:43.:36:49.

down. So subsequently when xet more criminal activities came to light I

:36:50.:36:54.

wrote to the Chancellor and I have a copy of my letter here. I wrote to

:36:55.:37:02.

him on the 26th of September seeking a meeting about this major

:37:03.:37:05.

international criminal activity As of last week when I was chasing up

:37:06.:37:11.

yet again for a response, the response I have had after a month

:37:12.:37:17.

showing their lack of concern about international criminal activity is

:37:18.:37:21.

we are still considering how to respond to your request for the

:37:22.:37:29.

meeting. To me, Mr Deputy Speaker, that is quite inappropriate response

:37:30.:37:34.

to a member of the service seeking a meeting about a major criminal

:37:35.:37:35.

activity to have to wait for a activity to have to wait for a

:37:36.:37:43.

month. I give way to the Minister. Can I reassure them that after a

:37:44.:37:46.

meeting yesterday I have listen to what he said and I will be leeting

:37:47.:37:51.

with my fellow ministerial colleagues to discuss the problem

:37:52.:37:54.

that he raised with me to sde what we can do about it. I'm particularly

:37:55.:38:01.

grateful to the Minister for that intervention and that clarity.

:38:02.:38:05.

Indeed what the Minister is done by coming to the dispatch box `t the

:38:06.:38:09.

moment is confirming what is about to say in my closing line in

:38:10.:38:14.

relation to this and that is given the way in which the current

:38:15.:38:18.

Minister has seen to discuss what those members of the opposition

:38:19.:38:27.

benches interested in this `nd his understandable and quite a public

:38:28.:38:29.

until about matters raised H was going to suggest that perhaps the

:38:30.:38:33.

Prime Minister could additionally appoint a minister for security as

:38:34.:38:41.

the formal tutor for all ministers of the Treasury. Because I `m sure

:38:42.:38:45.

they would have a great deal to learn about the appropriate way he

:38:46.:38:49.

deals with matters and I colmend that new appointment to the House.

:38:50.:38:58.

So Mr Deputy Speaker I think these are major matters of concern and it

:38:59.:39:03.

is said in jest that that is an element of surely some of the

:39:04.:39:08.

a blind eye to this for months need a blind eye to this for months need

:39:09.:39:13.

great importance and deservd to be great importance and deservd to be

:39:14.:39:21.

which I was going to brieflx mention which I was going to brieflx mention

:39:22.:39:24.

and it will be very brief, because many members commented on it

:39:25.:39:30.

already, is what has been h`ppening after the Panama papers in terms of

:39:31.:39:34.

Crown dependencies and the like I Crown dependencies and the like I

:39:35.:39:41.

think it is quite clear that the world expressed in the debate here

:39:42.:39:45.

is that what this bill does this not yet go far enough, particul`rly in

:39:46.:39:52.

terms of the much-needed transparency and openness towards

:39:53.:39:55.

beneficial ownership and if the Minister would be willing to think

:39:56.:40:01.

about how we might in a collegiate way around the size begin to address

:40:02.:40:07.

this and some of the other hssues that have been addressed, I think he

:40:08.:40:09.

will win himself many friends indeed. It is a pleasure to follow

:40:10.:40:16.

the honourable gentleman for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath. @nd to

:40:17.:40:21.

listen very carefully to thd important buoyancy is made `nd I'm

:40:22.:40:27.

glad he has had his meeting with the Minister and promises have been made

:40:28.:40:30.

to him that I'm sure he will ensure will be fulfilled. It is a pleasure

:40:31.:40:34.

to speak of is a pleasure to speak in this debate because one of the

:40:35.:40:37.

most important reports the select committee produced this year was our

:40:38.:40:43.

report into proceeds of crile and I am sorry to have missed the speech

:40:44.:40:46.

of the honourable lady who was a member of that committee and I'm

:40:47.:40:51.

sure spoke brilliantly about the conclusions of that report. I'm

:40:52.:40:55.

grateful to the Shadow Home Secretary for mentioning th`t report

:40:56.:41:01.

and for the points you made concerning the practicalitids and

:41:02.:41:02.

the issues that were revealdd. I'm sure you've read the report and

:41:03.:41:11.

I'm sure he's taken on board some of the points we have made. I think it

:41:12.:41:16.

is important when you legislate that you first of all seemed ready

:41:17.:41:20.

problems are, through the g`ps exist, you listen to all those with

:41:21.:41:25.

experience and when we condtcted the enquiry, we didn't just go to the

:41:26.:41:29.

usual suspects, we had many members of the Private sector giving

:41:30.:41:35.

evidence. You try then to come that will provide the Minister ndwly

:41:36.:41:44.

appointed to his position in the Home Office is going to havd a

:41:45.:41:49.

pretty easy ride in respect of the proceedings today because I

:41:50.:41:52.

understand there is going to be no vote because there is gener`l

:41:53.:41:56.

support throughout the housd for the measures that the Government is

:41:57.:42:00.

proposing because they are the right measures, sound measures, ddsigned

:42:01.:42:08.

to deal with the issues. I think on those two issues, he will always

:42:09.:42:18.

find a though he doesn't as carte blanche to get that entire

:42:19.:42:22.

legislation through. When it comes to committee, I hope members will

:42:23.:42:26.

take the amendment is based on the important point is. The member for

:42:27.:42:34.

Dumfries and Galloway and Aberdeen have all put forward import`nt

:42:35.:42:38.

measures that I hope they whll put forward as far as amendments in

:42:39.:42:44.

advance of his speech, I do want to congratulate my honourable friend

:42:45.:42:49.

Ealing Acton who will be making her speech for the front bench on the

:42:50.:42:54.

subject. More importantly, she will not be dividing the house which we

:42:55.:43:03.

are all today's bill, Mr Deputy Speaker, identifies three priorities

:43:04.:43:06.

which I will compare in terls of the findings of the report publhshed

:43:07.:43:11.

earlier this year. Robert Barrington, the director of

:43:12.:43:17.

transparency International, has said that may be laundered through the UK

:43:18.:43:25.

every year. This is equivaldnt to. A lot of it obviously goes to London

:43:26.:43:29.

but as we are reminded by otr colleagues from north of thd border,

:43:30.:43:34.

there are other greater fin`ncial centres such as Edinburgh Northern

:43:35.:43:48.

Ireland pointed out to me dtring the difficulties that as a placd, and

:43:49.:43:58.

entry into the EU, where money is the subject of laundering. @ll these

:43:59.:44:03.

great financial centres are being used in this way and that is that

:44:04.:44:09.

action is taken and action hs taken immediately. The committee was

:44:10.:44:13.

shocked to find that poor supervision and enforcement in the

:44:14.:44:17.

London property investment larket are making a safe haven for

:44:18.:44:21.

laundering and the proceeds of crime. A point made by the Shadow

:44:22.:44:27.

Home Secretary. As we find out from the regulators themselves, ht is far

:44:28.:44:32.

too easy for this to happen any financial centre like, Edinburgh of

:44:33.:44:38.

course, respected but we believe London to be the greatest fhnancial

:44:39.:44:43.

centre anywhere in the world. That is why what is essential is that we

:44:44.:44:47.

look at the market here, look at the way in which regulation operates in

:44:48.:44:53.

a constructive and positive way The honourable member for Newark is not

:44:54.:45:05.

in his place but he raised the we find the private sector the as a box

:45:06.:45:15.

ticking exercise, sending in their information, because it was their

:45:16.:45:21.

duty to do so and I was heartened by what the wish of the Governlent to

:45:22.:45:25.

cut through the red tape so that the information is sent on as qtickly of

:45:26.:45:38.

the where deemed to be susphcious in 2015. That is because the estate

:45:39.:45:42.

agents and the regulators bracing themselves that it was not possible

:45:43.:45:47.

to be able to deal with all the complaints that were going through

:45:48.:45:52.

because there were we have lade this point over a number of years.

:45:53.:45:57.

Committees of this House, mdmbers of Parliament in debates on thd

:45:58.:46:02.

subject. The assets and fin`nces available to our law enforcdment to

:46:03.:46:11.

the level of criminality th`t is in existence. If you look at the areas,

:46:12.:46:18.

organisations dealing with this issue. The National crime agency has

:46:19.:46:25.

a budget of 450 million, thd Financial Conduct Authority has a

:46:26.:46:31.

budget and the Serious Fraud Office has a budget of 45 million.

:46:32.:46:39.

However,, the number, the alount has been very poor. Only 155 million was

:46:40.:46:47.

recovered in 2014 to 2015. Hn defence of these three agencies

:46:48.:46:53.

whose assets total ?1 billion per year, they say it's not just about

:46:54.:46:57.

the recovery of assets. There are other areas, they are part of other

:46:58.:47:10.

those operations mean that they assessed as to the contribution that

:47:11.:47:14.

is made by these agencies. Hf you compare like-for-like, you will see

:47:15.:47:18.

there is quite a difference between what the budgets are and wh`t is

:47:19.:47:25.

recovered. I to this lady who has done a tremendous job as he`d of the

:47:26.:47:32.

one of the legacies of the previous Home Secretary now Prime Minister

:47:33.:47:36.

was the creation of the Nathonal crime agency. I am, Mr Deputy

:47:37.:47:42.

Speaker, as saying we have had something of a revolution in

:47:43.:47:46.

policing in the six years that the Prime Minister was Home Secretary.

:47:47.:47:50.

The whole of the Home Officd was shaken up, new organisations and

:47:51.:47:54.

institutions were put into existence. Obviously, she stayed

:47:55.:48:00.

longer than since the last century, you can't expect Home Secretary is

:48:01.:48:06.

like chairs of home affairs select committee is, there is alwaxs an end

:48:07.:48:11.

to the fun of doing these jobs. However, the fact is that h`ve not

:48:12.:48:18.

truly settle down. One of those is the ability to give organis`tions

:48:19.:48:23.

the resources they need in order to finish she is and so is her

:48:24.:48:30.

organisation, but I am extrdmely worried about the computer system

:48:31.:48:33.

that currently exists to do the very things that the minister wants to

:48:34.:48:40.

do. I assumed that will be winding up this debate so when he does, he

:48:41.:48:44.

will have the answer to the question that I posed to and we have posed

:48:45.:48:52.

over a number of months and years as to when is the system going to be

:48:53.:48:57.

renewed? It is all very well saying we want more information coling If

:48:58.:49:03.

we look at the figures, Mr Deputy Speaker, we know it just dodsn't add

:49:04.:49:09.

up. This is an old, creaking system, which is designed to manage only

:49:10.:49:18.

20,000 the last available fhgures, there were activity reports. How it

:49:19.:49:29.

is a system designed to deal with 20,000 supposed to deal with 38 ,000

:49:30.:49:36.

882. The ministers seem to be saying that people are ticking boxds and

:49:37.:49:39.

sending in information and they don't need to send on this

:49:40.:49:42.

information but I don't think we should expect the private sdctor

:49:43.:49:57.

officers of in a similar wax as to as have people who work for

:49:58.:50:01.

airlines, they have become immigration officers and thdy check

:50:02.:50:06.

tickets because despite what immigration ministers have said over

:50:07.:50:11.

the years, we don't have 100% immigration checks on exit. We have

:50:12.:50:19.

the airlines checking it but no a from the party our airports. That is

:50:20.:50:24.

a different story. My issue is become up at the private sector to

:50:25.:50:28.

act as enforcement officers, they are not deemed to do so. Th`t is why

:50:29.:50:35.

we need a new when we asked the Home Secretary about this when she was

:50:36.:50:40.

Home Secretary. She had no `nswer as to who was going to pay the bills.

:50:41.:50:44.

Is it going to come out of the budget of the National crimd agency.

:50:45.:50:50.

Is it going to come out of the Home Office budget? Who is going to pay

:50:51.:50:59.

for this? Because I think that the law with this is properly rdsourced.

:51:00.:51:11.

Are we going, the National crime agency, the, the equipment hn order

:51:12.:51:15.

to deal with these issues productively? When he comes to

:51:16.:51:22.

reply, I hope he will tell ts when the new be put into place bdcause

:51:23.:51:30.

that is really suspicious activity reports. Another aspect, Mr Deputy

:51:31.:51:35.

Speaker, it is the powers that have been given in the threshold, in my

:51:36.:51:49.

view, is too low. This is rdally a Treasury issue because I've had a

:51:50.:51:52.

number of constituents, and your other members of this House have had

:51:53.:51:57.

other constituents who have come to them very concerned that thdse been

:51:58.:52:00.

told their bank account is being closed by their bank. But the are

:52:01.:52:04.

never given an explanation `s to why this is the case. Unfortunately

:52:05.:52:09.

this has happened to too many members of the south Asian Dyers

:52:10.:52:13.

Borough community. Indeed, the applicant amenity, the Somali were I

:52:14.:52:29.

met someone from another colmunity who told me he was told his bank

:52:30.:52:33.

account had to be shut down in 8 days and he was not given an

:52:34.:52:39.

explanation because banks wd oppositely don't want to tell

:52:40.:52:43.

people, we are closing your bank account because you are a tdrrorist

:52:44.:52:47.

if there ongoing enquiries but certain explanation needs to be

:52:48.:52:50.

given. Funny look at the powers we are given, we need to make to the

:52:51.:53:05.

agencies we are giving I did mention I thank the right honourabld this

:53:06.:53:14.

issue about the a lawyer, wd would do the ID check and then put it into

:53:15.:53:18.

the bottom drawing ever to be seen again. If you are concerned, you

:53:19.:53:28.

would do a ticking off and dump it -- box ticking exercise. Thd was no

:53:29.:53:32.

positive process of process misinformation. We need a bdtter way

:53:33.:53:38.

to process. When he was a l`wyer, once a lawyer, always a lawxer in

:53:39.:53:43.

his case, I agree with him. He's absolutely right. There needs to to

:53:44.:53:50.

those involved in these acthvities. There needs to in each of these

:53:51.:53:56.

agencies but I don't know what kind of law he didn't. We wouldn't expect

:53:57.:54:03.

every single lawyer to be trained as to like this. We would expect a

:54:04.:54:09.

compliance officer to be able we wouldn't have the time to btt that

:54:10.:54:20.

will not cut down 381,000 to 20 000, if we have a third of a million

:54:21.:54:25.

suspicious activity reports, even the best trained lawyer and I would

:54:26.:54:29.

put him amongst probably thd best one can find, would not be `ble to

:54:30.:54:34.

bring down that figure. As well as giving the private sector more

:54:35.:54:44.

responsibility to check, it's that the equipment is fit for purpose.

:54:45.:54:49.

Let me make this final point and commend the suggestion made to the

:54:50.:54:53.

enquiry by the outgoing commissioner. I would like to pay

:54:54.:54:57.

tribute to Sir Bernard the work he has done is I have to lady will

:54:58.:55:07.

remember this when she was ` member of the by to from us. We tr`in them

:55:08.:55:20.

well, we used to train them well in Sir Bernard came up with is very

:55:21.:55:27.

important suggestion with those involved I raise this point with the

:55:28.:55:30.

Shadow Home Secretary and I am grateful to her for her reply. I

:55:31.:55:34.

hope the policing minister `lso consider it because when it comes

:55:35.:55:37.

from someone as distinguish as the commissioner, it is worth looking

:55:38.:55:47.

those who serve their sentence then, it is have not paid their

:55:48.:55:54.

compensation, I think, are H agree with the right honourable and learn

:55:55.:56:01.

at member,, we probably shotldn t keep them in prison indefinhtely but

:56:02.:56:06.

there needs to be some sanction for them to pay up. One of the hssues

:56:07.:56:10.

that arose was the fact that compensation orders were given for

:56:11.:56:14.

assets that were not in existence, they sound like fabulous figures in

:56:15.:56:22.

court when they say involved in this mass activity has got millions but

:56:23.:56:28.

actually they don't have those kinds of assets. We need to be re`listic

:56:29.:56:35.

about what we are going to the compensation orders. I think there

:56:36.:56:45.

needs to be a penalty, that something these people to h`ve to

:56:46.:56:49.

pay up before they come out of jail, otherwise they will simply `s an

:56:50.:56:55.

opportunity, come The, trying to be finally, H didn't

:56:56.:57:15.

realise we were short of tile. This is not a shortage of time. @fter all

:57:16.:57:24.

these years, how can you believe a member when they see finallx and

:57:25.:57:27.

assuming they are about to finish their speech? This is very finally,

:57:28.:57:34.

ignored nor of you, Mr Deputy Speaker. When the policing linister

:57:35.:57:38.

comes the reply I want to address the issue of the police funding

:57:39.:57:41.

formula because we had been waiting for a long time for the new police

:57:42.:57:47.

funding formula to be deciddd upon. Every single member of the size has

:57:48.:57:52.

a constabulary including yot Mr Deputy Speaker, including

:57:53.:57:57.

Lancashire, Lancashire were the most vocal last year when the Chhef

:57:58.:58:03.

Constable of Lancashire said he was running out of money and thd

:58:04.:58:06.

reserves were going to run out. All the constabularies have been waiting

:58:07.:58:12.

for the policing minister to announce the arrival of the police

:58:13.:58:19.

funding formula. His predecdssor for the House that the reason hd

:58:20.:58:23.

couldn't give us the police funding formula is because Sarah Thornton,

:58:24.:58:28.

the head of the Association of Chief Police Officers was also dohng her

:58:29.:58:35.

analysis and therefore we could not have police funding formula until

:58:36.:58:41.

she had completed their work. But I understand this is not the case and

:58:42.:58:45.

that is no reason why we cannot have the police funding formula. While do

:58:46.:58:51.

we need this to confront issues raised in this bill is becatse it is

:58:52.:58:55.

not all about the City of London and this kind of activity hands all over

:58:56.:58:58.

the country and if we expect local police officers and Leicestdrshire

:58:59.:59:03.

and Lancashire and Kent and Sussex and elsewhere to be able to deal

:59:04.:59:09.

with this issue and plan for it we need a formula so I hope th`t he

:59:10.:59:16.

will give us the coordinates the deal gives the new date when the

:59:17.:59:19.

police funding formula will be announced. I must say that hs the

:59:20.:59:26.

first time I am speaking from this dispatch box and I am pleasdd to be

:59:27.:59:35.

responding for the opposition on the criminal finances bill which touches

:59:36.:59:40.

on issues that have been in the public eye with the Panama papers

:59:41.:59:44.

scandal and the anti-corruption Summit that was held here in May

:59:45.:59:51.

under the previous by Minister. How long it all seems the -- Prhme

:59:52.:59:58.

Minister. The debate has strayed into finance and terrorism `nd

:59:59.:00:01.

international aid as well as home affairs and we fight contributions

:00:02.:00:09.

from Barking. Market Harborough and Kingston and Dumfries Galloway

:00:10.:00:15.

amongst others. This bill sdeks to tackle money-laundering and

:00:16.:00:19.

corruption to recover the proceeds of crime and to counteract terrorist

:00:20.:00:24.

financing -- all measures that we are on the side support. Was this

:00:25.:00:28.

which I would say that has been in which I would say that has been in

:00:29.:00:33.

short supply many fronts, wd temper our reasons to be cheerful with

:00:34.:00:39.

identifying some omissions `nd notes of caution that we would like to

:00:40.:00:44.

send at this stage so firstly the green ticks. We welcome the

:00:45.:00:47.

eye-catching and explained wealth eye-catching and explained wealth

:00:48.:00:51.

orders which would force individual that is way above the means to

:00:52.:00:55.

account for these possessions and these themselves can count `gility

:00:56.:00:59.

that new seizure and for th`t powers that new seizure and for th`t powers

:01:00.:01:03.

these can be frozen and possession taken. As a London MP I am `ll too

:01:04.:01:07.

aware of genuine Londoners who want to get a foot on the property ladder

:01:08.:01:13.

is that these ill gotten gahns I'm messing things up for them hn an

:01:14.:01:18.

overheated property market. We also commend that these investig`tory

:01:19.:01:22.

Powers extended to politically exposed persons. A thumbs up as well

:01:23.:01:27.

to the new failure to prevent our facilitation of tax evasion applied

:01:28.:01:33.

to corporations and reconciliation bodies and we also applaud hmproved

:01:34.:01:37.

data sharing between privatd and public sectors and the government

:01:38.:01:40.

extension of disclosure orddrs to extension of disclosure orddrs to

:01:41.:01:43.

money-laundering investigathons bringing them into line with

:01:44.:01:46.

corruption and fraud investhgations, also to be commended and thd

:01:47.:01:51.

strength and suspicious acthvity reports before the period of

:01:52.:01:58.

investigation was 31 days and note adds up to 186 extra days. We live

:01:59.:02:02.

in an age where terrorism is probably the biggest threat about

:02:03.:02:08.

times so we welcome the extdnsion of powers in this Bill to areas of

:02:09.:02:14.

terrorist property and finances So what is not to like? Well, H think

:02:15.:02:19.

once we acknowledge the steps here once we acknowledge the steps here

:02:20.:02:22.

in tightening the net and corrupt practice, and we're not seeking to

:02:23.:02:27.

defy the House this evening, that is more that could be done to

:02:28.:02:32.

counteract the accusations of the endless status of the UK as a magnet

:02:33.:02:37.

for dirty money. That should be no safe haven, particularly in our own

:02:38.:02:40.

international corruption often turn international corruption often turn

:02:41.:02:46.

up. Taken with its overseas taken trees and Crown dependencies. -

:02:47.:02:50.

territories, the UK as a whole package constitutes the most serious

:02:51.:02:56.

tax jurisdiction in the world. Good work has been done by the Ptblic

:02:57.:02:59.

Accounts Committee on home `ffairs select committee on my right

:03:00.:03:05.

honourable friend for Barking and Leicester East in their reports But

:03:06.:03:09.

not all of their suggestions have been taken up so we suggest that

:03:10.:03:16.

there must be action from m`ny right honourable members from both sides

:03:17.:03:22.

who are flagged up overseas dependence and Crown dependdncies.

:03:23.:03:24.

The British virgin islands `nd The British virgin islands `nd

:03:25.:03:27.

Cayman Islands are some of the worst offenders. And we administer them.

:03:28.:03:35.

This is the most gaping hold of all the trick has been missed hdre.

:03:36.:03:39.

Transparency on these or pax corporate structures of the key part

:03:40.:03:42.

of the solution of this bill does not go there. 75% of the corruption

:03:43.:03:47.

cases investigated by the Metropolitan Police proceeds is a

:03:48.:03:52.

crushing unit involve companies in secrecy jurisdictions and 70%

:03:53.:03:53.

those companies involved ard those companies involved ard

:03:54.:03:59.

registered and UK overseas territories Crown dependenches. We

:04:00.:04:01.

need for transparency in thhs build is not go far enough. Also

:04:02.:04:07.

previously trumpeted in May 201 was failure to prevent economic crime

:04:08.:04:11.

and it is missing here. Without some degree of transparency and company

:04:12.:04:14.

ownership we're not even colpletely aware of the skill of the problem

:04:15.:04:19.

and the damage done. Kenya `nd Nigeria and Afghanistan

:04:20.:04:24.

fourth-seeded the point. -- have all conceded the point. People need

:04:25.:04:30.

resources to weaponry for resources to weaponry for

:04:31.:04:32.

crime-fighting could do with an update. The National crime `gency

:04:33.:04:40.

will have more work so that cost implications. As says is thd success

:04:41.:04:48.

of several bodies being man`ged and notwithstanding their one-off cash

:04:49.:04:49.

injection had the spending review injection had the spending review

:04:50.:04:53.

funding. My right honourabld friend funding. My right honourabld friend

:04:54.:05:01.

for Leicester East raised a very eloquent point that the seediest

:05:02.:05:08.

question marks over the IT system designed to support the reghme.

:05:09.:05:19.

Originally designed for 20,000 it is processing 381,882 of them. A new

:05:20.:05:26.

system was promised and I whll reiterate again when will wd expect

:05:27.:05:32.

this? Will my honourable frhend give way? Does it come off my tile? I can

:05:33.:05:39.

assure her I would never want to come off a time and she's speech and

:05:40.:05:46.

I congratulate on a maiden speech at the front bench. The delay hn Elmer

:05:47.:05:52.

and the new system the government was to Britain to moves on, all that

:05:53.:05:57.

means is there will be more criminal activities of the quicker this done

:05:58.:06:01.

the better. I thank my right honourable friend. She is qtite safe

:06:02.:06:09.

in giving way during a wind,up speech. She has plenty of thme,

:06:10.:06:14.

indeed she has until ten minutes to seven, but I think she will know the

:06:15.:06:20.

House would prefer that she does not take quite a long and she does need

:06:21.:06:28.

to worry. I'm grateful to M`dam Deputy Speaker and my vice friend

:06:29.:06:35.

for his intervention. I will finish well before Tim to seven. Hd makes a

:06:36.:06:40.

very good point that we cannot fight modern sabre was with cataptlts and

:06:41.:06:49.

technology changes are made to upgrade the system. We were told it

:06:50.:06:52.

was happening and we want to know where. New powers for the Sdrious

:06:53.:07:00.

Fraud Office are all well and good that we need officers with the right

:07:01.:07:05.

training. It does seem that the public purse is being used to train

:07:06.:07:10.

officers area of financial crime yet officers area of financial crime

:07:11.:07:12.

we are simultaneously powerless to we are simultaneously powerless to

:07:13.:07:17.

prevent them falling prey to privates sector projects and

:07:18.:07:20.

something should be done thdre. There was to be a working p`rty on

:07:21.:07:25.

the recruitment and retention of investigators so I would like to

:07:26.:07:29.

know what became of that. Are some of these deficiencies to be plant at

:07:30.:07:36.

a later stage? At the moment 27 separate bodies are responshble for

:07:37.:07:44.

asset recovery, the people who investigate the SARs. They `re

:07:45.:07:51.

sometimes funded by the people that they regulate. I am also kedn to

:07:52.:08:03.

know what process is being lade on the arm to crush a strategy dualling

:08:04.:08:13.

of the year? --Tsars. I unddrstand that is a joint council and then of

:08:14.:08:17.

next week. If the minister doesn't know could he have a word whth his

:08:18.:08:19.

friends the Foreign Office to find out if it is not on the agenda and

:08:20.:08:24.

call out by the suggested to be added urgently? And finally, what is

:08:25.:08:39.

the government actually doing at the moment to install transparency in

:08:40.:08:43.

its overseas territory and Crown dependencies? My right arm or friend

:08:44.:08:46.

for Barking and suggested it could at least send a timeline whhch would

:08:47.:08:50.

give them time to adjust. Wd'll give them every support in the mdantime

:08:51.:08:55.

to transition their business? They have propped up this business model

:08:56.:08:59.

for a long time. So the need to move away from facilitating corrtption.

:09:00.:09:06.

Without this action are tax havens I'm afraid the small bits of good

:09:07.:09:08.

news in this bill will be overshadowed by the governmdnts

:09:09.:09:12.

failure to act issues are ilportant area. The government should be able

:09:13.:09:17.

to persuade its own territories of least to follow this lead and

:09:18.:09:24.

several members from both House of paid tribute to the former premise

:09:25.:09:28.

that this here. We asked me to get away from the idea that not paying

:09:29.:09:32.

tax by avoidance and evasion of victimless crimes. Countries the

:09:33.:09:39.

developing world lose three times as much to begin made through tax

:09:40.:09:44.

havens through illicit funds and we laundering and adds up to a Chilean

:09:45.:09:48.

pounds per year and at the same time we are pumping aid into those

:09:49.:09:53.

places. It makes no sense at all. At a time when we should justify every

:09:54.:10:00.

pound spent given our own straitened circumstances, each MRC esthmates at

:10:01.:10:05.

tax gap of ?36 billion incltding 5.2 billion or two Arsenal from tax

:10:06.:10:12.

evasion. I think my right more friend for Barking courted the same

:10:13.:10:16.

figures and the religious scriptures say these are conservative

:10:17.:10:29.

estimates. -- are from tax dvasions. -- there are other interestdd groups

:10:30.:10:32.

who say these are conservathve estimates. You could get 54,054

:10:33.:10:37.

nurses for the same amount. I think my writer more friend the mdmber for

:10:38.:10:43.

Leicester East said Liverpool record of recovery because they don't pay

:10:44.:10:48.

for themselves, the costs ndeded to recover these. Madam Deputy Speaker,

:10:49.:10:55.

the practices this bill seeks to tackle exposes the dark sidd of

:10:56.:11:00.

globalisation and its links to terrorism and the way that global

:11:01.:11:04.

finance and cross-border crhme and terrorism, all these things can be

:11:05.:11:07.

done nowadays at the click of a mouse.

:11:08.:11:15.

and have we don't want that to happen. We don't want to all the

:11:16.:11:31.

signs they like and people can but more things need to be matched with

:11:32.:11:36.

action. This is then a case of to do better on the Government's report

:11:37.:11:40.

card. I would urge the Government to work together with us and wd will be

:11:41.:11:44.

pressing on some of the isstes outlined today and more bec`use

:11:45.:11:51.

surely, when the opportunitx for a the Government don't want to go down

:11:52.:11:56.

as having we will not opposd this bill and we look forward to

:11:57.:12:05.

constructively looking at its passage thank you, Madam Deputy

:12:06.:12:10.

Speaker. I want to thank honourable and right Honourable members for

:12:11.:12:13.

this informed and valuable debate. There have been some very strong and

:12:14.:12:19.

important contributions and support from and cross-party the prhnciple

:12:20.:12:26.

there have been some discussions at the committee stage. I will come to

:12:27.:12:34.

this there can be no doubt `bout the seriousness of the threat of

:12:35.:12:38.

terrorism and organised crile by the scale of the challenge that we face

:12:39.:12:44.

in combating them. As of July last year, there were around 5800

:12:45.:12:49.

organised crime groups or the - operating in the UK. Organised crime

:12:50.:12:54.

is thought to cost the UK around ?9 billion and the social and dconomic

:12:55.:12:58.

cost of drug supply are esthmated to be some 10.7 these are not, as the

:12:59.:13:06.

right honourable lady outlined earlier today, faceless thex have an

:13:07.:13:13.

impact on people that we know and they have an impact on the people

:13:14.:13:18.

who live in our own constittencies. As we have heard, the UK is the

:13:19.:13:22.

fantastic place to do busindss, something that we as the Government

:13:23.:13:26.

want to maintain. We gave a very clear message out across thd country

:13:27.:13:34.

we are but if we are to maintain our, we must ensure, that this is

:13:35.:13:40.

one of the cleanest and safdst places to invest. We need to send a

:13:41.:13:44.

very clear message to those who would seek to corrupt legithmate

:13:45.:13:49.

trade. Madam Deputy Speaker, I am grateful to all audible and right

:13:50.:13:52.

Honourable members who have contributed to the debate today the

:13:53.:14:04.

member for Ealing Central Acton and indeed Honourable members from

:14:05.:14:10.

Dumfries Kirkcaldy. I was pleased that my honourable friend h`s to

:14:11.:14:15.

hear that he has been discussing the bill with both the opposition and

:14:16.:14:20.

Scottish National party members prior to today's debate and sharing

:14:21.:14:26.

some of the paperwork some two months ago I know as a convdrsation

:14:27.:14:33.

during the passage of this bill It's clear members across the house

:14:34.:14:37.

want to contribute and have their say in making sure we end up with

:14:38.:14:42.

the robust strong system to be proud of as I know that almost without

:14:43.:14:46.

exception those Honourable lembers who have spoken have understood the

:14:47.:14:50.

importance of these powers `nd have been vocally supportive of ht is of

:14:51.:14:56.

course right button issues like money-laundering and terrorhsm, this

:14:57.:15:06.

bill is presenting a united front. I welcome the fact that an error

:15:07.:15:10.

consultation on the bill, wd are a very diverse group of stakeholders,

:15:11.:15:19.

major banks, law, there has also been an overwhelmingly positive

:15:20.:15:23.

response to its provisions. I wanted to touch any few of the I w`sn't

:15:24.:15:42.

able to contribute to the while I accept there is a huge weight of

:15:43.:15:45.

unity about the provisions here the real action is to do with how

:15:46.:15:49.

enforceable they are and thd danger has been in the past and it is all

:15:50.:15:56.

and more important that. Thd danger is we will put onto the statutory

:15:57.:16:02.

break a lot, often some might regard as rather Draconian which whll end

:16:03.:16:11.

up not being properly enforced by the judiciary when that is due I

:16:12.:16:17.

would have that one caveat hn mind whilst he is absolutely right to see

:16:18.:16:21.

these are very important new powers in relation which wasn't an issue

:16:22.:16:28.

back in 2002 when the act c`me to be. My right honourable fridnd makes

:16:29.:16:39.

importance of the committee stage to make it's where I think he can have

:16:40.:16:43.

a huge amount of faith in the work of my honourable friend to open the

:16:44.:16:47.

debate today and its interpretation to work with colleagues to lake sure

:16:48.:16:52.

that the robust bill. It very clear that that is not going to continue,

:16:53.:16:59.

a country is open for busindss but we also believe in fairness and we

:17:00.:17:02.

want to ensure that fairness prevails. Members across thhs House

:17:03.:17:07.

of top direct a range of issues and a couple of particularly core issues

:17:08.:17:14.

have come up a number around comments made the previous lember of

:17:15.:17:23.

the home affairs select comlittee and others the will have

:17:24.:17:40.

unrestricted and incorporatdd in I have to say, I think the pohnt was

:17:41.:17:44.

made by the Right Honourabld Lady, the member for Barking, who outlined

:17:45.:17:49.

the excellent work and a strong message was given by David Cameron

:17:50.:17:54.

when he was something we ard determined to see continue that ..

:17:55.:18:02.

It is important that we are working very closely with our colle`gues

:18:03.:18:05.

around the world to ensure we have a very strong and robust systdm. We

:18:06.:18:11.

have surely lead on this. Those territories have agreed thex must

:18:12.:18:19.

commit so that the HMI can investigate later this year, HM RIC

:18:20.:18:28.

have new data on billions of -- held in the overseas Territories by I

:18:29.:18:33.

think this is a big step forward and I know we as the honourable friend

:18:34.:18:38.

are determined to ensure th`t we stamp out that kind of behaviour.

:18:39.:18:44.

What's also been mentioned today by honourable friends as well `s the

:18:45.:18:48.

Right Honourable gentleman, the member for issues around funding let

:18:49.:19:01.

me MCA itself has actually had an increase in and police budgdts

:19:02.:19:08.

themselves year, which means that we do actually see that increase coming

:19:09.:19:12.

through, particularly when xou look at the NACA itself which ard million

:19:13.:19:25.

pounds, what was 440. Each LRC has seen that increase in funding, up to

:19:26.:19:31.

3.6 billion with the 241 million imputed that the honourable lady was

:19:32.:19:35.

referring to. I can also be very clear about the fact we are

:19:36.:19:38.

determined to make sure the police and NCA is part of that, have the

:19:39.:19:42.

resources they need to be able to look all of this, the honourable

:19:43.:19:56.

gentleman, the... You'll have to excuse me for resisting for now I

:19:57.:20:04.

have few weeks to all Chief and crime commission is asking them to

:20:05.:20:07.

come and talk to me as we go through that process to deliver, as we said

:20:08.:20:12.

in our election manifesto, ` fairer funding formula for police `nd we

:20:13.:20:23.

will do that. I'm pleased to be that have literally registers of

:20:24.:20:32.

beneficial ownership that m`ny of the members have spoken abott here

:20:33.:20:36.

today. All of the overseas Territories have now agreed to a

:20:37.:20:40.

central registries which will be accessible to law enforcement

:20:41.:20:42.

authorities, we will continte to push for all countries to introduce

:20:43.:20:46.

public registries. This is good news and we will continue to work I'm

:20:47.:20:54.

delighted at that good news that the Minister has just given. Can he

:20:55.:20:58.

confirm whether the announcdment he has been given that those rdgisters

:20:59.:21:05.

will as I just said, my closing few words as he was standing up, we will

:21:06.:21:10.

continue to push for all cotntries to introduce and we will continue to

:21:11.:21:20.

work the other issue raised by his good self as well as the melber for

:21:21.:21:29.

Kirkcaldy and others is the issue. I will hope he to make the pohnt work

:21:30.:21:48.

on that to work Kingston, great contributions today, partictlarly

:21:49.:21:53.

Honourable member for Wilton who outlined the as the part it plays in

:21:54.:21:59.

making sure that back work `round funding of extremism as well. We

:22:00.:22:03.

have discussed the vital importance of this bill in protecting the UK's

:22:04.:22:08.

position and status as a global financial centre and ensure

:22:09.:22:13.

criminals cannot benefit from the proceeds I expect and hope that

:22:14.:22:16.

Honourable and right Honour`ble members will want to give in-depth

:22:17.:22:20.

scrutiny to this bill as thdy have outlined the sacrament as wd move

:22:21.:22:24.

onto a clause by clause exalination committee and I look forward to a

:22:25.:22:30.

lively debate I am proud th`t in comparison to most European

:22:31.:22:34.

countries, we are positioned high in the league table of having ` strong

:22:35.:22:39.

and independent judiciary as well as a determined law enforcement. If we

:22:40.:22:43.

are to maintain our record `nd our position, we need to always stay one

:22:44.:22:48.

step ahead of those that sedk to undermine us. Especially in such a

:22:49.:22:52.

fast-moving global environmdnt. That is why this legislation is so

:22:53.:22:57.

important, it is so reassurhng to see that principle cross-party party

:22:58.:23:01.

supported in this House as ` clear message. For all the proceeds of

:23:02.:23:12.

their crimes, tackle terrorhsm finance and bring more offenders to

:23:13.:23:15.

justice. I hope this House will agree this is what is in thd public

:23:16.:23:20.

interest and this legislation is passed by the earliest opportunity

:23:21.:23:23.

with clear, continued cross,party support and on that basis, H can --

:23:24.:23:32.

commends this bill to the shgn that the question is on the order paper.

:23:33.:23:44.

As many of that opinion CES? On the Isa have it. We now come to be the

:23:45.:23:53.

question is as on the order paper. As of many of that opinion, no? The

:23:54.:24:02.

yes have it. And the money resolution to be moved formdrly The

:24:03.:24:07.

question is as on the order paper. As many of yes? On the contrary no?

:24:08.:24:14.

The yes have it. The we now come electricity. As many h`ve it

:24:15.:24:34.

ayes? The ayes habit. We cole to motion number six on ministdr to

:24:35.:24:41.

move. The question is as on the order paper. As many of that yes?

:24:42.:24:46.

The ayes to thank you Madam Deptty

:24:47.:25:00.

Speaker. I am delighted for this opportunity to present this petition

:25:01.:25:05.

to the house is calling for fear transitional arrangements for 1 50s

:25:06.:25:15.

born women who are... Other people should not be standing up in this

:25:16.:25:18.

chamber while Mr Boswell is speaking. If members wish to leave,

:25:19.:25:22.

they should do so swiftly and quietly. Mr Philip Boswell. Thank

:25:23.:25:28.

you again, Madam Deputy Spe`ker 1950s born women who are affected by

:25:29.:25:37.

changes to the state pension change, that group the Government's

:25:38.:25:41.

ministers promised transitional arrangements to ease that btrden but

:25:42.:25:49.

those have not constituency and many others facing hardship. I thank all

:25:50.:25:53.

those who have signed the pdtition and those in similar terms presented

:25:54.:25:57.

by other vulnerable members. I thank the office for their work. The

:25:58.:26:06.

petition states, of the declares that as a result of the way in

:26:07.:26:11.

between 1995 pensions act and the 2011 pensions act were impldmented,

:26:12.:26:17.

women born in the 1950s on or after the 6th of April 1951 have tnfairly

:26:18.:26:21.

born the burden of the incrdase to the state pension age. Further, that

:26:22.:26:26.

hundreds of thousands of wolen have had significant changes imposed upon

:26:27.:26:31.

them with little or. Implemdntation took place faster than promhsed

:26:32.:26:37.

further that this gave no thme to make alternative pension pl`ns and

:26:38.:26:40.

further at that retirement plans have been shattered with thd House

:26:41.:26:53.

of Commons urges the Governlent to. Who have an unfairly born the burden

:26:54.:26:56.

of the increase to is a, implementation of the 199 and

:26:57.:27:22.

to those 11 pensioners. This monthly pension acts. The question hs that

:27:23.:27:34.

this House do know adjourn. -- now adjourn. I know this is a pdrsistent

:27:35.:27:42.

cause of mine and I sometimds feel I should apologise to the Minhster for

:27:43.:27:48.

bringing to this place to dhscuss this portfolio so I want to save it

:27:49.:27:52.

said how impressed I and many others in this have been pressed bx his

:27:53.:27:59.

commitment to this agenda. Ly comments are in no way addrdssed to

:28:00.:28:06.

him and his God to work so hard It is not easy. The political work is

:28:07.:28:15.

chaotic at present. -- political world. Prizes are hard to ddfine the

:28:16.:28:20.

truth is the challenge and closing the gap on what we say from that

:28:21.:28:24.

dispatch botched and how it feels to our men and women and said hncreases

:28:25.:28:29.

in severity along with the bid. -- dispatch box. There's the ongoing

:28:30.:28:34.

cost of the recent campaign as country is undertaken in Afghanistan

:28:35.:28:48.

and Iraq. People are now experiencing battle fatigue know

:28:49.:28:49.

that operations are bidding from that operations are bidding from

:28:50.:28:53.

public view and I regret to say from government as well. In Janu`ry last

:28:54.:28:57.

year I met the previous by Linister and presented a report to hhm that

:28:58.:29:00.

for the first time had almost universal support across thd

:29:01.:29:04.

veterans care sector. It ex`mined as the sustainable veterans care model.

:29:05.:29:14.

I also presented to the Secretary of State for Defence and others. The

:29:15.:29:18.

paper was not my solution btt for many involved in the arena, serving

:29:19.:29:24.

and retired. And those in the third sector. It was greeted with warm

:29:25.:29:28.

words about duty responsibility and the promise of a response btt after

:29:29.:29:32.

awhile, regrettably nothing really materialise all. I'm very grateful

:29:33.:29:40.

to him for giving way and m`y congratulate him accusing this

:29:41.:29:46.

debate and all that he does in this field. -- securing this deb`te. The

:29:47.:29:52.

point of single contact is one. Can I invite to read another paper, the

:29:53.:29:57.

Armed Forces weighty health and well-being team from Dorset. Can I

:29:58.:30:00.

invite to look at that and see how that fits in with his model as well?

:30:01.:30:05.

I would be delighted to look at that and I will take that forward from

:30:06.:30:14.

there. In the current polithcal landscape I fear that veter`ns care

:30:15.:30:17.

has received other good punt down the road after Brexit. I fedl the

:30:18.:30:30.

new Prime Minister is to tackle a job that can seem impossibld. I

:30:31.:30:35.

could not wish a more strength to take on these charges supporter to a

:30:36.:30:42.

fault. I believe you'd achidve nothing on your own politics and the

:30:43.:30:46.

strength to tackle the challenges ahead on this team on this side of

:30:47.:30:50.

the House but I must confess that I'm disappointed on first shght and

:30:51.:30:56.

the single issue. In July I challenge the premised on hdr

:30:57.:30:59.

leadership campaign in front of my entire party about a commitlent to

:31:00.:31:01.

this agenda and a willingness to look at the government department or

:31:02.:31:05.

something similar to finallx much words with deeds becomes thd 2.

:31:06.:31:11.

million veterans in country. How response which is not keen to

:31:12.:31:14.

departments beyond the department departments beyond the department

:31:15.:31:19.

for exiting the European Unhon which I can well understand but you can

:31:20.:31:21.

imagine my concerns as to whether imagine my concerns as to whether

:31:22.:31:25.

that Vince will item agenda over the summer. As I alluded to regtlarly I

:31:26.:31:35.

support the government that did not widen the stores too. I was further

:31:36.:31:37.

concerned that the veterans care agenda was being polluted. The

:31:38.:31:47.

Minister today spoke more stddenly. That is increasingly enormots

:31:48.:31:49.

challenge as the military reconfigures its relationshhp with

:31:50.:31:52.

the reserves this country hdading into 2020. This was a clear movement

:31:53.:31:57.

which we were pursuing which is not which we were pursuing which is not

:31:58.:32:00.

a notice by those who strivd in this field to deliver this country's duty

:32:01.:32:04.

to those who serve. That is where we are tonight with an ever increasing

:32:05.:32:09.

demand and the general and very understandable declining interest in

:32:10.:32:13.

this agenda now the vessel wounds of war and not flying back frol Iraq or

:32:14.:32:18.

Afghanistan every week and the government challenged by

:32:19.:32:21.

unprecedented political dem`nds I hear what he says in regards to the

:32:22.:32:27.

fading memory when one of mx constituents came to see me the

:32:28.:32:34.

legacy of the injuries which he sustained in Iraq with everx day. He

:32:35.:32:38.

talked about sustainability which my honourable friend stalking `bout as

:32:39.:32:44.

well. -- spoken about as well. He also spoke about the need for a

:32:45.:32:48.

simple transparent system for those who served with potentially

:32:49.:32:52.

life-threatening life impacting entities need to have a mord simple

:32:53.:32:58.

way in getting the help thex are entitled to. -- injuries. I entirely

:32:59.:33:05.

agree and I will come onto later than the speech about the four key

:33:06.:33:14.

tenets of which that is one. We all these people and we must deliver it.

:33:15.:33:26.

challenge the government to do its challenge the government to do its

:33:27.:33:29.

duty to those who do the bidding from the size and annoyed c`n be

:33:30.:33:32.

tedious watching a blessing to me keeping on again about this agenda

:33:33.:33:40.

and I do not do it because H've nothing else to do because that are

:33:41.:33:43.

particularly good career prospects this line of work because that is

:33:44.:33:48.

some of intangible crowd th`t I play too. I do it for the one silple

:33:49.:33:52.

thing that also many others the last decade and a half to conduct an

:33:53.:33:58.

popular was on the ballot this nation and that one word whhch I

:33:59.:34:02.

remember compelling that Maria referred to by patrol to do his duty

:34:03.:34:08.

and refusing a belief in it and seeking out explosive devicds for

:34:09.:34:11.

seven long once they are today. The kind of thing that makes our young

:34:12.:34:19.

loses composure in heat of battle as loses composure in heat of battle as

:34:20.:34:24.

he died in front of his men. It is my duty to these men to keep up this

:34:25.:34:33.

fight and a sacrifice I makd and do -- in doing this is so small

:34:34.:34:35.

compared to those of you must keep going. -- that I must keep going. I

:34:36.:34:45.

applaud the government efforts on this agenda but it is nowhere near

:34:46.:34:48.

enough. I have no doubt whatsoever that this minister and a st`rt-up

:34:49.:34:52.

night and day trying to delhver this agenda but you can only work with

:34:53.:34:56.

the resource and priorities he is given by the Secretary of State for

:34:57.:35:02.

Defence and by Minister. I thank him for giving way and attraction

:35:03.:35:06.

congratulate him for securing this incredibly important debate. I

:35:07.:35:09.

normally shares my concerns about normally shares my concerns about

:35:10.:35:12.

the mental health veterans of this country. Does he share very specific

:35:13.:35:17.

concern about the availabilhty of mental health services for our

:35:18.:35:20.

veterans which we know and several parts of the country are patchy I

:35:21.:35:28.

thank her for her interventhon. The truth is this mental health issue

:35:29.:35:31.

that we have moved so far away from getting involved in getting our

:35:32.:35:35.

hands dirty and sorting this out that we are now in danger of being

:35:36.:35:38.

in a place where the perception is that everybody who leads thd Armed

:35:39.:35:42.

Forces has some sort of post-traumatic stress disorder is

:35:43.:35:45.

wildly inaccurate and we nedd to provide services for those who need

:35:46.:35:50.

it and I completely agree whth my right honourable friend. Given his

:35:51.:35:57.

current operating envelope the Minister has achieves significant

:35:58.:36:01.

things. Let's take his work in the health care arena. For servhce

:36:02.:36:07.

personnel and veterans pay scheme announced in July assuming the

:36:08.:36:11.

palaces successful could fundamentally change the wax care

:36:12.:36:15.

for most seriously injured hs using the pressure on local CCG 's and

:36:16.:36:18.

retaining knowledge and expdrtise for those who have been injtred

:36:19.:36:22.

This is a first step and I would urge the Prime Minister to note the

:36:23.:36:26.

early successes of the schele and look to roll it out nationwhde.

:36:27.:36:30.

Again I would play for him `nd his department not to take my

:36:31.:36:32.

observations personally. He conducts observations personally. He conducts

:36:33.:36:38.

valuable work but it is my job to speak the truth and I would be

:36:39.:36:41.

filling my job if I did not do that. I think the truth is the evhdence

:36:42.:36:45.

and the evidence is not endless announcements about what we have put

:36:46.:36:49.

into the sector. These annotncements are cooler to be welcomed though I

:36:50.:36:52.

cannot help but feel they are rather plain to home crowd. The evhdence

:36:53.:36:57.

for this is how what we do `ctually effect on matters those who we are

:36:58.:37:02.

trying to help. I have a long time said that until we fundamentally

:37:03.:37:06.

change this conversation from what we are endlessly pouring into the

:37:07.:37:09.

sector to what it actually feels like to be a veteran in the United

:37:10.:37:14.

Kingdom in 2016 we will nevdr truly understand the scale of the work to

:37:15.:37:19.

be done. I would say to the Secretary of State for Defence the

:37:20.:37:22.

premise that the evidence is there if only we were to look. A study

:37:23.:37:27.

done just before summer recdss indicated that 85% of veter`ns feel

:37:28.:37:31.

that the UK Government does not support them well enough. 84%. The

:37:32.:37:41.

much heralded Armed Forces covenant, 84% did not believe it is bding

:37:42.:37:45.

implemented and even half of them serving and not heard of thd Armed

:37:46.:37:51.

Forces covenant. We need to think about how this is being implemented

:37:52.:37:59.

and it is a lot of the, a choice lottery where local authorities and

:38:00.:38:06.

others choose to implement ht and this question is whether government

:38:07.:38:09.

is in reality for our service men and women. It has become catchphrase

:38:10.:38:15.

number ten that it is quickly increasingly becoming meaningless to

:38:16.:38:18.

the service community unless we stop this trend. I see this as someone

:38:19.:38:25.

who met privately with the previous premise that last week. He was a

:38:26.:38:28.

good man and someone who generally got the military in this cotntry and

:38:29.:38:31.

I could tell his genuine prhde in his achievements of this policy but

:38:32.:38:35.

the gap between the top and the reality on the ground is so vast. I

:38:36.:38:39.

reference one study for evidence of truth there are many. In thhs

:38:40.:38:44.

country will be blessed for some time by a public on the third sector

:38:45.:38:48.

which is done wonders for Armed Forces veterans of the year. The

:38:49.:38:52.

thousands who work in the sdctor for little reward, of them I want to

:38:53.:38:58.

mention one couple have left the sector in recent months leaving the

:38:59.:39:03.

indelible mark and the convdrsations around veteran skier in the kingdom

:39:04.:39:08.

are forever changed. Rick P`rry and his wife Emma setup Help For Heroes

:39:09.:39:16.

in 2007 as a result of the catastrophic dereliction of care for

:39:17.:39:19.

veterans but they know to ghve them the government in the early days of

:39:20.:39:23.

Afghanistan and Iraq. The third sector presents its challenges as

:39:24.:39:26.

much as any other sector in this country in so congested market

:39:27.:39:29.

competing for the same fundhng and trying their best to do what they

:39:30.:39:32.

veterans. You will hear good and bad veterans. You will hear good and bad

:39:33.:39:39.

of every organisation. But the truth for this is that Help For Hdroes is

:39:40.:39:43.

completely and fundamentallx changed her veteran skier Hamza 's country

:39:44.:39:47.

today. Like any success story Help For Heroes are that the tractors and

:39:48.:39:51.

I'm not naive to this but I will never countenance, I'm afrahd. I'm

:39:52.:39:55.

from the generation who had nowhere else to go in 2007 for a veteran

:39:56.:40:01.

skier. They proved faster than any other similar organisation hn

:40:02.:40:04.

history and that things are many neglect. They retained a focus on

:40:05.:40:08.

who it is all about, the guxs and the girls. You have now passed your

:40:09.:40:13.

torch to your successors. Btt your light will never go out. From a

:40:14.:40:18.

generation of soldiers who felt nothing really geared -- nobody

:40:19.:40:21.

want to thank you to the bottom of want to thank you to the bottom of

:40:22.:40:25.

our hearts for what you did and he committed your light of this pursuit

:40:26.:40:28.

and delivered extraordinary change of sugar to we would be without you.

:40:29.:40:34.

As much as shudder to think we would be without you. -- I shudder to

:40:35.:40:44.

think we will be without yot. Disagree with me that the

:40:45.:40:46.

responsibility is to support responsibility is to support

:40:47.:40:48.

veterans integrate back into civilian life and should sugar don't

:40:49.:40:50.

find themselves homeless is critical? I do and I would commend

:40:51.:40:56.

the work of some of the brilliant charities that we have gottdn this

:40:57.:41:00.

country and I shudder to thhnk we would be without them.

:41:01.:41:10.

the state it's not good enotgh, the Americans realise that he is making

:41:11.:41:24.

I am proud to represent the town of Colchester and I know too wdll the

:41:25.:41:28.

fantastic charities that work in the sector that has been withdr`wn from

:41:29.:41:33.

theatres does he agree this is the time that we should be investing

:41:34.:41:37.

that money in supporting our veterans? I thank him for hhs

:41:38.:41:41.

intervention. I would absolttely support what he is saying. We are

:41:42.:41:51.

reaching a point of the mindset and the money is declining as wdll and

:41:52.:41:54.

if we don't get this right now, it will be far too late I thank him. He

:41:55.:42:05.

is making a very passionate case as always a point about a charhty which

:42:06.:42:16.

and their these out providing emotional and practical help could

:42:17.:42:19.

provide very good models for the Government to incorporate in all the

:42:20.:42:26.

things that my honourable there are some brilliant there are cases out

:42:27.:42:34.

there we could learn from qtite quickly, not only in this country

:42:35.:42:39.

that internationally as well. The but there is a job the Government

:42:40.:42:44.

are doing bringing it the third sector remains a deeply challenging

:42:45.:42:47.

one and that is the reason for this debate tonight. There are almost two

:42:48.:42:54.

and a half thousand militarx charity funds in but this gives you a

:42:55.:42:58.

picture into the chaos. I would not be here having this debate hf either

:42:59.:43:01.

every single one of the charities was doing good. It is an awkward

:43:02.:43:05.

conversation that we do not have it we will be doing a disservice to

:43:06.:43:09.

those we are trying to help. Some charities struggle with fin`ncial

:43:10.:43:14.

management, some are crimin`l. Some practice evidence -based thdrapies

:43:15.:43:25.

and to nonetheless unproven the veterinary staff management which

:43:26.:43:30.

means we must sort this problem out as time goes on, the Iraq and

:43:31.:43:35.

Afghanistan generation Warrhors will fade from memory. We will bd on the

:43:36.:43:39.

same pages as the Falklands and the Gulf War, as the same chaptdr of the

:43:40.:43:42.

Americans in Vietnam and thd public will stop giving and income in some

:43:43.:43:48.

other major charities is down by a third this financial year. No

:43:49.:43:56.

organisation can this will eventually run out. The dutx to our

:43:57.:44:00.

veterans will only increase as the scars of our recent worries reveal

:44:01.:44:09.

themselves feel to combat stress are up 71%. Now is the time to have this

:44:10.:44:13.

dirty fight of sorting out the third sector. I can't help but fedl that

:44:14.:44:17.

most of the sector would th`nk us for it. The load criminal charges as

:44:18.:44:25.

much as I do, they feel when they struggle like everyone else, the

:44:26.:44:29.

coast the lack of a comment needs assessment so we have to st`rt each

:44:30.:44:32.

case from scratch causing more trauma to the individual ushng their

:44:33.:44:36.

services. If we don't have this fight and the Government ard the

:44:37.:44:39.

only ones who can do it, it looks like we don't care. We don't want to

:44:40.:44:43.

have this conversation becatse it is too difficult, too dirty for us to

:44:44.:44:46.

get involved. I'm afraid it comes back to what I was discussing at the

:44:47.:44:58.

beginning, it duty. The to dnsure veterans's care in this country to

:44:59.:45:05.

ensure it is accessible to `ll, particularly our too many h`ve no

:45:06.:45:08.

idea how to access some of the brilliant services provided by our

:45:09.:45:12.

third sector. To insure it hs be standard and a safety that hs

:45:13.:45:15.

applicable to those who havd served or indeed any other UK citizen. To

:45:16.:45:20.

ensure it is evidence -based, correctly staffed to insure cases

:45:21.:45:26.

are managed and individuals are guided through these are enormously

:45:27.:45:29.

complex treatment pathways, to ensure that the great British public

:45:30.:45:33.

who have carried this chargd for so long do not get ripped off by

:45:34.:45:38.

individuals raising money which the British public will never stop he is

:45:39.:45:50.

making a very powerful speech in which are set before the veterans

:45:51.:45:54.

leave the service, it is not good enough to allow them to just after

:45:55.:46:01.

they've left the forces. It seems to be happening is of the cases I've

:46:02.:46:11.

some education before peopld leave would be helpful. I underst`nd there

:46:12.:46:17.

is a more any third direction this pathway is sure to be welcole. Why

:46:18.:46:23.

do we have to do this? I wotld ask you Madam Deputy Speaker to beat

:46:24.:46:26.

yourselves in the shoes of the average user, a corporal two or

:46:27.:46:30.

three years out who gave his best years of his. Now any civilhan job

:46:31.:46:36.

he starts to find his past ` chance to deal with. We have seen them in

:46:37.:46:40.

our constituencies up and down this land, he doesn't want sympathy. He

:46:41.:46:45.

was proud to serve this nathon of errors, he just wants to know

:46:46.:46:48.

vertigo. He doesn't want to have to retell his story all the tile. His

:46:49.:46:53.

wife wants to know that the quality is doing is says, he will bd looked

:46:54.:46:57.

after, his treatment has a fair chance of working. She wants to know

:46:58.:47:06.

that someone crucially, she wants to know that he will get that help in a

:47:07.:47:11.

timely manner before his condition deteriorates and becomes so much

:47:12.:47:19.

harder and so I congratulatd you on securing such an important debate.

:47:20.:47:24.

Would you that the Armed Forces covenant should maybe an opportunity

:47:25.:47:32.

that in places like Staffordshire relocation of people from Gdrmany to

:47:33.:47:35.

the Staffordshire Regiment, it now means that we can actually think

:47:36.:47:40.

about the next ten or 30 ye`rs by how we help veterans now and when

:47:41.:47:43.

they retire so they can build real families and homes and not worry

:47:44.:47:45.

about some of the issues th`t younger

:47:46.:47:57.

members it is a complete lottery and I've seen it done well, I'vd seen at

:47:58.:48:03.

an appallingly. There is no accountability that which is why I

:48:04.:48:07.

hate to use the phrase about it becoming meaningless but unless it

:48:08.:48:10.

means something, it's just `nother phrase. It get out of jail from the

:48:11.:48:14.

dispatch box in terms of talking about it. That's

:48:15.:48:24.

what I does he accept the mhlitary Government has many huge te`ms

:48:25.:48:42.

to Government I wouldn't dismiss what I but I refer him back to the

:48:43.:48:56.

evidence which 85% is a significant who don't believe that that is the

:48:57.:49:04.

case in looking at all this, I really struggled a bit my fhnger on

:49:05.:49:08.

why any of this is so desperately hard the Government to achidve.

:49:09.:49:19.

Nobody else is the third -- fake charities to succeed. It nedds

:49:20.:49:24.

leadership, it needs a small but strong department with a cabinet

:49:25.:49:35.

falls on veteran's carer. In the. To actually delivering it. It needs the

:49:36.:49:39.

game changing events such as the Help For Heroes provided in 200 . It

:49:40.:49:44.

is within the PM's gift to do this and I would plead with her there are

:49:45.:49:49.

always reasons not to and I've heard them all. But every ally we fought

:49:50.:49:57.

alongside have tried ways to create a separate department for vdterans

:49:58.:49:58.

affairs and we should we mustn't give the impression, Madam

:49:59.:50:28.

Deputy Speaker, that help and charity, the that all these

:50:29.:50:32.

charities have helped for a very long time and and continue H think

:50:33.:50:44.

we must that these people who have helped my soldiers from, who unlike,

:50:45.:50:56.

at least to start with, Help For Heroes that did nothing. I just want

:50:57.:51:04.

to rise and say please, this House, do not see that help was a get on

:51:05.:51:15.

with the job. They did and they carried and they looked aftdr our

:51:16.:51:24.

men and women I thank my honourable friend for his intervention and I

:51:25.:51:34.

have I do believe the changd the market when it came to veteranthe

:51:35.:51:42.

charity sector has carried this burden for and people like lyself

:51:43.:51:46.

and my honourable friend will be enormously grateful for I whll close

:51:47.:51:58.

now, Madam I wanted to give than I gave in the last time. This duty is

:51:59.:52:06.

not going for my colleagues in this place for my persistence on this

:52:07.:52:13.

matter which must appear yot cannot have had the experience I h`ve had

:52:14.:52:17.

for one has seen and felt the sacrifice of our Armed Forcds Day

:52:18.:52:21.

after day far from the publhc gaze and give up this torch now. I am

:52:22.:52:26.

privileged beyond anything `nd I will use and abuse that privileged

:52:27.:52:30.

until the situation changes because they deserve it. Some lost body

:52:31.:52:42.

parts they would lost wives in a process that is ongoing to the MA

:52:43.:52:46.

deserved a country and a Government that cares in the world I fhnd so

:52:47.:52:54.

incredibly selfish and cruel, they sacrificed. That is without

:52:55.:53:02.

mentioning, I said at my first day here and it will forever relain

:53:03.:53:10.

true. The years on this nathon's continuing freedom and we mtst never

:53:11.:53:15.

tire in duty I will not havd to repeat this to many

:53:16.:53:27.

were I start by congratulathng my honourable friend the his sterling

:53:28.:53:38.

work and passion in ensuring that our veterans have the necessary

:53:39.:53:45.

support and welfare that thdy deserve as a veteran himself he is

:53:46.:53:50.

well placed to speak to the House on their behalf. Since arriving in the

:53:51.:53:55.

House in 2015, he has made ht his mission to campaign on this and

:53:56.:53:59.

whilst I cannot claim to be a veteran quite yet, although last

:54:00.:54:06.

week I was described at the Army borders seasoned oak, it cldarly

:54:07.:54:15.

can't through my more the ilportance of this subject. Equally, I am

:54:16.:54:21.

grateful to him for his concern about my ever although, I confess

:54:22.:54:30.

with reserves added a serving member of the Army reserves and a Royal

:54:31.:54:35.

engineer for 20 years, I usdd to say "aye" look far too long to have been

:54:36.:54:39.

a Royal engineer for 20 years but I fear now I do not it is least a

:54:40.:54:45.

brief I have some basic understanding on and didn't have to

:54:46.:54:53.

do too comments are in need of it the armed it is really the

:54:54.:54:58.

recognition that the nation as well as the Government have a

:54:59.:55:02.

responsibility to ensure th`t our veterans suffer at no disadvantage

:55:03.:55:08.

as a result of there was implication that the Cabinet has not bedn

:55:09.:55:14.

applied consistently across the United Kingdom. This is a concern

:55:15.:55:18.

that I have had for some tile, which is why earlier this year, I

:55:19.:55:26.

commissioned the to do a review of the covenant across they have

:55:27.:55:35.

recently report which is effectively aimed at showing best practhce and I

:55:36.:55:39.

would encourage any of my colleagues in the house tonight to beat that

:55:40.:55:44.

report and, crucially, the light that best practice and encotrage

:55:45.:55:49.

their local authorities to follow it. There are some fantastic and it

:55:50.:55:56.

will come as no surprise th`t those local authorities would seel to do

:55:57.:56:00.

it best are those with the greatest proportion of members of thd Armed

:56:01.:56:04.

Forces. I would simply use this opportunity to send please spread

:56:05.:56:10.

that report far and wide because that is the means with which we can

:56:11.:56:12.

begin to improve a level of We have been supporting an tmbrella

:56:13.:56:30.

organisation of 250 charitids and plasterwork and I will talk about

:56:31.:56:33.

this in greater detail throtghout the course of the debate. Mx

:56:34.:56:36.

honourable friend and I agrde on many things, though I fear that is

:56:37.:56:42.

one that we do not. I once `gain note the reference made by ly

:56:43.:56:46.

honourable friend for the sdparate department for veterans. I can only

:56:47.:56:50.

repeat what I said at the ddbate in March this year that on bal`nce I

:56:51.:56:53.

did not believe this to be the best approach although of course if it

:56:54.:56:57.

does mean that I end up in the Cabinet then perhaps maybe he could

:56:58.:57:02.

persuade me to change my mind but I feel it would not be me that were to

:57:03.:57:09.

be in the Cabinet. The needs of veterans fired up Whitehall

:57:10.:57:12.

boundaries national borders because first and foremost they are veterans

:57:13.:57:17.

previously that was my honotrable previously that was my honotrable

:57:18.:57:20.

friend and I agree in the end we did not necessarily agree on thd means.

:57:21.:57:27.

I fear our veterans ministrx would duplicate work which alreadx exists

:57:28.:57:30.

throughout the Department of Health and the Department for Work and

:57:31.:57:33.

Pensions and apartment for communities and local government and

:57:34.:57:38.

many organisations and government agencies. I also believe th`t the

:57:39.:57:44.

work of defence business services, veterans UK, provides a valtable

:57:45.:57:45.

service bringing together pdnsions service bringing together pdnsions

:57:46.:57:53.

in compensation and welfare support. He is making an important point

:57:54.:57:57.

about whether or not a department of veterans affairs is better for

:57:58.:58:02.

westerns are worse. -- veterans Would that demotivate those and

:58:03.:58:13.

apartment block in pets elsdwhere who are committed to the veterans

:58:14.:58:18.

issue and would then say th`t is not to do with me, that is over to them?

:58:19.:58:23.

I think to a degree it comes back to the principle of the Armed Forces

:58:24.:58:26.

covenant which is really an agreement between the nation as a

:58:27.:58:30.

whole and are veterans. I would hate to think that we move to a position

:58:31.:58:35.

responsibility to a single responsibility to a single

:58:36.:58:38.

department allowing others to feel that somehow it is not their

:58:39.:58:42.

responsibility to play a role in supporting our veterans. I do

:58:43.:58:46.

believe that the current system where responsibility for veterans

:58:47.:58:51.

across government is a positive move. Yes, more should be done to

:58:52.:58:55.

ensure that all are playing the part but I think I would agree on balance

:58:56.:58:59.

of my honourable friend that probably would be a retrogr`de step

:59:00.:59:03.

to have a dedicated veterans department and I think we nded not

:59:04.:59:08.

look too far across the Atl`ntic to see some of the problems thdy have

:59:09.:59:14.

their and this is not simplx financial but the very complex way

:59:15.:59:15.

in which care is given to otr in which care is given to otr

:59:16.:59:20.

veterans can be diverted and the author have the advantage of the

:59:21.:59:23.

National Health Service which is a very comprehensive health sdrvice

:59:24.:59:26.

the thing that is a very good medium in which to support our vetdrans.

:59:27.:59:39.

I have listened very carefully to what honourable gentleman s`id and I

:59:40.:59:45.

also great respect to my honourable friend from Plymouth. But I asked a

:59:46.:59:49.

question you are the veterans Minister and I take it. He the

:59:50.:59:58.

veterans Minister. I'm getthng carried away. The honourabld

:59:59.:00:06.

gentleman is the veterans Mhnister and as the veterans most I take it

:00:07.:00:11.

that you actually have fingdrs and other ministries such as he`lth and

:00:12.:00:17.

from your own efforts that veterans from your own efforts that veterans

:00:18.:00:22.

are well served and you are the focus. The honourable gentldman is

:00:23.:00:31.

getting me seriously carried away. It is his fault. I certainlx am the

:00:32.:00:42.

only minister with veterans and his title. I'm certainly prepardd to say

:00:43.:00:46.

that take the lead and veterans matters. I would however argue with

:00:47.:00:53.

my honourable friend that all ministers and government should have

:00:54.:00:58.

veterans on their mind. And do what they can to support our vetdrans, so

:00:59.:01:04.

yes, I am happy to take the lead and yes, I am happy to have the title

:01:05.:01:09.

and my portfolio and yes, I am happy to try and ensure that all of my

:01:10.:01:13.

ministerial colleagues also show the same interest but I would not want

:01:14.:01:18.

to be the only minister was sole responsibility for veterans for

:01:19.:01:22.

reasons I gave for men answdred my honourable friend for North

:01:23.:01:27.

Wiltshire. Despite this, I do recognise that the Ministry of

:01:28.:01:31.

Defence has a responsibilitx to ensure that the transition from

:01:32.:01:35.

service to civilian life is as smooth as possible. Allowing service

:01:36.:01:46.

bosses are they might -- service personnel to have transferable

:01:47.:01:49.

skills of the abandoned servers But I'm not saying there's not lore that

:01:50.:01:54.

could and should be done. I believe firmly that effective transhtion to

:01:55.:01:57.

civilian life as a major factor to ensuring effective care. I lust

:01:58.:02:04.

emphasise that most service leaders transfer well to civilian lhfe

:02:05.:02:08.

through a robust and effecthve settlement system known as ` career

:02:09.:02:11.

transition partnership which has helped 85% of service leavers find

:02:12.:02:16.

sustainable employment in 2014 015 sustainable employment in 2014 015

:02:17.:02:24.

in six months. But I do unddrstand there is a small percentage of

:02:25.:02:28.

service leavers who did not make a smooth transition and those are the

:02:29.:02:32.

people that we must work hard to identify and support. This hs also

:02:33.:02:37.

why am keen to include a qudstion on veterans and the National cdnsus.

:02:38.:02:41.

This will help us identify the veteran community and I asstre my

:02:42.:02:44.

honourable friend that I will continue to pursue this

:02:45.:02:47.

energetically with the Office of National Statistics. Would he also

:02:48.:03:00.

ensure that his colleague, the Secretary of State for the Cabinet

:03:01.:03:02.

Office, is fully briefed on this? And then of the day the ONS and not

:03:03.:03:11.

vital marker for the future. Here we vital marker for the future. Here we

:03:12.:03:15.

have a perfect example of why it is so important that the responsibility

:03:16.:03:19.

for veterans is across government peace because as the veterans

:03:20.:03:24.

Minister it is not within mx power to force the chief statistician to

:03:25.:03:34.

Cabinet Office do have, I understand Cabinet Office do have, I understand

:03:35.:03:37.

of my honourable friend is right, the ability to do that. Transition

:03:38.:03:49.

is seen as a through to measure it process and as people join the Armed

:03:50.:03:53.

Forces they concede they not only have the possible to have the full

:03:54.:03:57.

career but also that wanted it will become as avoiding the need to

:03:58.:04:00.

prepare for this. Career tr`nsition to start a day one of service and we

:04:01.:04:04.

must indicate this message the very first day and individual johnts

:04:05.:04:09.

However whether our veterans who have had difficulties in tr`nsition

:04:10.:04:13.

the government, local authorities in charge of the sector must step in to

:04:14.:04:18.

ensure they afforded appropriate support. Alongside the government

:04:19.:04:21.

some tuna have thousands service charities also play a role. The

:04:22.:04:26.

Confederation of service ch`rities and which many of the charities and

:04:27.:04:36.

a member discuss mental health and housing and encourage collective

:04:37.:04:42.

working and to raise ideas to implement solutions. To esthmate

:04:43.:04:45.

some of the ideas make the debate in March in relation to the role of

:04:46.:04:49.

charities in the veterans c`re sector we value our partnership with

:04:50.:04:52.

the charitable acuity sectors which address wider welfare requirements

:04:53.:04:57.

particularly to the more vulnerable individuals in the Armed Forces

:04:58.:05:03.

committee. Last week I chaired the ministerial service charitids board

:05:04.:05:08.

meeting attended by relevant government officials and Help For

:05:09.:05:13.

Heroes of the Royal British Legion and others. The recognition of some

:05:14.:05:17.

of the concerns my honourable friend races I reset its role with a focus

:05:18.:05:19.

on cooperation and a strategic on cooperation and a strategic

:05:20.:05:23.

approach to discussions where actions are taking on current and a

:05:24.:05:29.

portent issues arising in the sector. -- important. I do believe

:05:30.:05:39.

that accountability is important. As Minister for veterans I do walk a

:05:40.:05:44.

tightrope when it comes to dealing with charities. Automatically I have

:05:45.:05:49.

no power to direct a charitx to do anything. Charities are not

:05:50.:05:54.

responsible to government, charities are responsible to the trustees but

:05:55.:05:59.

role in providing leadership to try role in providing leadership to try

:06:00.:06:02.

supporting veterans and this is a supporting veterans and this is a

:06:03.:06:08.

role I try to fulfil. Help For Heroes is a charity that st`rted off

:06:09.:06:15.

in 2007 and the Armed Forces having recently re-engage in Afghanistan

:06:16.:06:18.

have stayed there for a further seven years. The support inhtially

:06:19.:06:25.

divided by Help For Heroes forefoot for the horrendous injuries

:06:26.:06:28.

Throughout the seven years `nd Throughout the seven years `nd

:06:29.:06:30.

beyond along with improvements equipment we have made great strides

:06:31.:06:35.

in ensuring the best medical support available by medical charithes and

:06:36.:06:41.

the NHS. I would like to take this opportunity to major route to

:06:42.:06:52.

Brennan and Emma Parry. -- lajor tribute to Bryn. I had meethng with

:06:53.:07:00.

the Deputy Minister. It couldn't come any sooner. In Northern Ireland

:07:01.:07:07.

be fired 100 veterans of last year and a half of last year and I have

:07:08.:07:12.

tried to commit suicide. Those veterans who served in Afgh`nistan

:07:13.:07:15.

did not have any regimental Association. What can be done to

:07:16.:07:21.

reach those people who are tnder the radar who nobody knows about but who

:07:22.:07:24.

are affected very quickly bx what they have seen? I intend to visit

:07:25.:07:33.

Northern Ireland shortly because for reasons that are obvious we have a

:07:34.:07:38.

unique set of circumstances over there witch am determined to do my

:07:39.:07:40.

bit to address that medicathon is the key. It is important, and I will

:07:41.:07:50.

get on this in a moment, to make sure that services and support are

:07:51.:07:56.

predicated and too often th`t is help out there but it's not clear

:07:57.:08:00.

how our veterans access that. I intend to say a few words about that

:08:01.:08:04.

at the moment of the honour`ble gentleman will bear with me. And

:08:05.:08:08.

from the House earlier this year of a plan to improve the care received

:08:09.:08:12.

by the most seriously injurdd and how the dependent service vdterans

:08:13.:08:17.

and personnel. Cover this is delivered by a number of separate

:08:18.:08:21.

illnesses including Ministrx of Defence and the NHS and a ntmber of

:08:22.:08:24.

charities and similar organhsations. We have a pilot on menses cleared of

:08:25.:08:31.

this kind coordinated and ddlivered by an new high dependency c`re

:08:32.:08:36.

system. It produces a joined up an improved system of care for the

:08:37.:08:41.

community groups. The early signs community groups. The early signs

:08:42.:08:45.

are that this is going well and I'm happy once it is established to how

:08:46.:08:49.

will we can extend it to a wider cohort of veterans. On that very

:08:50.:08:54.

point can I invite the minister to point can I invite the minister to

:08:55.:08:58.

look at the Dorset model as mentioned a few minutes ago? To see

:08:59.:09:01.

that feed into the model thd that feed into the model thd

:09:02.:09:07.

ministers just averted. I would be delighted to look at than model

:09:08.:09:15.

That model will provide confidence for a small number of indivhduals

:09:16.:09:19.

and families that their clinical and sport needs will be continud to be

:09:20.:09:22.

met and leave the Armed Forces and for the rest of the lives. Hn

:09:23.:09:26.

relation to the point of a single point of contact for veterans I have

:09:27.:09:30.

good news. The Armed Forces covenant fund has ?10 million each ydar to

:09:31.:09:34.

support the covenant by funding projects which address spechfic

:09:35.:09:38.

priorities. One of those behng the creation of veterans gatewax. They

:09:39.:09:43.

love this initiative is to provide a single point of contact via a fully

:09:44.:09:50.

transactional website and bx telephone providing information

:09:51.:09:51.

clearing house which takes hnto account the needs of all veterans

:09:52.:09:54.

they may be located. The announcement will be made vdry

:09:55.:10:01.

shortly on the preferred bidder of this contract with this fachlity

:10:02.:10:05.

been launched in 2017. Further to this we have the Armed Forcds

:10:06.:10:09.

covenant website itself which is serving and former serving personnel

:10:10.:10:13.

may access. The support of our veterans and the services that are

:10:14.:10:18.

provided for the welfare is not perfect but I, like my honotrable

:10:19.:10:24.

friend and all on members hdre tonight, are determined to do more.

:10:25.:10:29.

Important work is being dond by the government for the communithes of

:10:30.:10:33.

local government is supportdd housing, ensuring that local

:10:34.:10:34.

authorities have afforded bx at authorities have afforded bx at

:10:35.:10:39.

Devizes June. They have also introduced various measures to

:10:40.:10:46.

improve access to social hotsing for the service community which includes

:10:47.:10:50.

changing the law to ensure seriously injured personnel and veter`ns with

:10:51.:10:54.

serious housing needs are ghven high priority for social housing by local

:10:55.:10:59.

authorities. In health NHS Dngland are bringing in new initiathves for

:11:00.:11:01.

mental health provision services for veterans, the details of whhch M O D

:11:02.:11:08.

officials have provided expdrt input to. These are just a few ex`mples of

:11:09.:11:13.

the collaborative work we'rd putting into government.

:11:14.:11:20.

Veterinary Kerry is a very specialist area and doctors and

:11:21.:11:26.

nurses and staff need trainhng and support if the are to care for

:11:27.:11:30.

veterans act quickly and we have a lot to learn from veterans. That

:11:31.:11:34.

centre was set up because of having to look after veterans coming back

:11:35.:11:38.

from war which has benefited the country as a holder. Indeed. I

:11:39.:11:44.

absolutely agree with my honourable friend, this is a crucial area. An

:11:45.:11:49.

area when it comes to veter`n's mental health care I've been looking

:11:50.:11:54.

at a lot. I'm delighted to see my honourable friend for South West

:11:55.:11:58.

Wiltshire just enter the ch`mber because it was his report which did

:11:59.:12:04.

so much work in this area and I m delighted that we have been

:12:05.:12:08.

permitted nearly all of his recommendations. Equally I do

:12:09.:12:11.

believe very strongly the work going on at the moment about being able to

:12:12.:12:16.

transfer service personnel ledical to civilian National Health Service

:12:17.:12:24.

is vital in this area as we can effectively track our veter`ns.

:12:25.:12:29.

Critically we must ensure it right from the day that service pdrsonnel

:12:30.:12:34.

joined to the day that the leave that they are ready for the

:12:35.:12:37.

transition to the civilian world and collaboration and cooperation is the

:12:38.:12:43.

key. We must continue to work with other Government departments, local

:12:44.:12:45.

authorities and the charitable sector to build on what we have

:12:46.:12:50.

achieved thus far but I also thank my honourable friend for

:12:51.:12:55.

reasoning... I sense he is beginning to wind up and I just wanted to say

:12:56.:13:00.

to my honourable friend and thank him for his response. It is

:13:01.:13:06.

imperative on this side of the House that we do everything based on the

:13:07.:13:11.

evidence that is presented to us and we can persistently talk about the

:13:12.:13:15.

Armed Forces covenant working but you can see by the strength of the

:13:16.:13:19.

people that a tonight and the stories that are coming out on a

:13:20.:13:22.

weekly basis that at the molent it is not working as well as it should

:13:23.:13:28.

be and I understand his dislissal of the Department for veterans affairs

:13:29.:13:31.

but it works elsewhere. Othdr people have done it. It's completely

:13:32.:13:38.

different and I would just `sk him not to close his mind to thhs

:13:39.:13:42.

concept because I think unthl we do something like that and

:13:43.:13:46.

fundamentally change this, we will not stop the haemorrhaging of

:13:47.:13:52.

veterans care in this country. I would say two things. It is not just

:13:53.:13:56.

this side of the house that care is passionately about this. I `m

:13:57.:14:01.

confident both sides of the house care passionately about this

:14:02.:14:07.

subject. I have been greatlx encouraged by the very positive

:14:08.:14:13.

cooperation I have seen frol Her Majesty's loyal opposition hn trying

:14:14.:14:17.

to support constructively progress in this area. Equally, I wotld say

:14:18.:14:23.

and I hope that continues, H'm sure it will. Equally, I would s`y that I

:14:24.:14:26.

don't have a closed mind about anything. I would like to think in

:14:27.:14:39.

my ten year as veterans Minhster to date that I have demonstratdd there

:14:40.:14:45.

have been a number of issues, where I have tried to take a fresh

:14:46.:14:49.

approach, I have looked isstes again and there are a couple more issues

:14:50.:14:54.

in my inbox the moment I looking at. No, I don't have a closed mhnd. All

:14:55.:14:58.

I'm saying is at the moment on balance I do not believe it's the

:14:59.:15:03.

right approach and I think we have examples this evening over how other

:15:04.:15:06.

areas of the Government can effectively contribute to ensuring

:15:07.:15:11.

the care of our veterans and equally I am concerned the point made by my

:15:12.:15:16.

honourable friend for North Wiltshire but I wouldn't want to

:15:17.:15:20.

move to a position of effectively the rest of Government and society

:15:21.:15:24.

feels that somehow responsibility for our veterans has been ddlegated

:15:25.:15:31.

to a small part of Government. That on balance at the moment I believe

:15:32.:15:40.

would be a mistake. The question is did is how is now an adjournment? As

:15:41.:15:53.

many of that opinion say ayd? The ayes have it. Order,

:15:54.:15:54.

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