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another opportunity, either through a forthcoming adjournment ddbate or | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
questions to the Secretary of State for Scotland. Point of order, Julian | :00:00. | :00:18. | |
Lewis. Is there any advice xou can give to me in my capacity as chair | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
of the Defence Select Committee Both my committee and the foreign | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
affairs select committee have been extremely worried about the | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
forthcoming major cuts to BBC Monitoring and the potential closure | :00:32. | :00:39. | |
of Caversham Park, the centre where BBC Monitoring and American Open | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
Source Enterprise side-by-shde to the great advantage of many | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
government departments. The foreign affairs and quietly had to conclude | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
without getting a responsible minister to give evidence. We have | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
been trying in our enquiry since October the 14th to get responsible | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
minister, who we gather shotld be from the Foreign Office, but | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
otherwise possibly from the Cabinet Office, to come to us. This is a | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
very serious matter, is warning a great many people in the military | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
intelligence communities and we look to your advice as to what wd can do | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
to compel and minister to do his job and come before us and be | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
scrutinised as we are required to do in order to do our job? I thank him | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
for advanced notice of his point of order. As he knows, the chahr is not | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
able to compel ministers to appear before select committees, btt he has | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
chosen the timing of his pohnt of order very well and has the leader | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
of the house very attentive and will no doubt take his concerns back to | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
the government. Point of order, Patrick Grady. In answer to my | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
honourable friend from Stirling the leader in all sobriety and perhaps | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
without any hint of irony, presented the behaviour of the Mr last week as | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
nothing more than answering questions in a normal debatd. Every | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
member present knows... Orddr. Order. This is a continuation of a | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
debate rather than a point of order and you will have to pursue other | :02:20. | :02:27. | |
avenues for this grievance. We come to presentation of... Technhcal and | :02:28. | :02:40. | |
further education Bill. What day? Second reading tomorrow. We now come | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
to the motion on privileges. I informed the house that the speaker | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
has not selected the amendmdnts tabled. I called the leader of the | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
house to move the motion. I beg to move the motion standing in my name | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
on the order paper. This case was referred to the committee of | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
privileges by the house on the 2nd of May 2012 the committee w`s tasked | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
to investigate the conclusions in chapter eight of the 11th rdport | :03:11. | :03:17. | |
from the culture media and sport committee on News International and | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
phone hacking. The committed found that Mr Colin Myler and Mr Tom corn | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
misled the culture media and sport committee by each answering | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
questions falsely about knowledge of evidence that other News of the | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
World employees had been involved in phone hacking and other wrongdoing. | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
The committee made a finding of content in relation to each of them. | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
The committee also made a fhnding of contempt in relation to Mr Tom | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
Cronan being found to have, I caught, misled the CMS commhttee by | :03:51. | :04:00. | |
giving a false account of confidentiality. He was involved in | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
the settlement negotiations and knew that the desire of confidentiality | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
had increased settlement amount ". The standard of proof by thd | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
committee was whether the allegations contained within the CMS | :04:17. | :04:23. | |
committee report was signifhcantly more likely than not to be true The | :04:24. | :04:31. | |
other allegations, made agahnst Mr Cronan, Mr Les Hinton and Ndws | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
International did not meet the standards set out by the colmittee. | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
I would like to thank the committee for the diligent work, parthcularly | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
given the long pause in the enquiry for legal proceedings were tnder | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
way. Their findings matter because select committees play an ilportant | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
role in parliamentary and n`tional political life. Ultimately, it is | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
water 's side when witnesses Bill to provide reliable evidence. Decisions | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
which shape and affect our constituents' lives are madd by | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
businesses, organisations and ministers, whose work is ovdrseen by | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
select committees. And scrutiny can only happen effectively bec`use of | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
the powers and privileges afforded to members of Parliament. Whthout | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
them, the ability of MPs to serve their constituents properly is | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
undermined, so the findings of the committee of privileges that | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
Parliament has in this inst`nce being knowingly misled our of | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
serious concerned. And the fact that questions were raised by parties to | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
this enquiry regarding the tse of Parliament's powers and the proper | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
jurisdiction of the house, hs troubling. I'm very grateful. I | :05:51. | :05:58. | |
should say, News of the World and News International tried to get the | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
Secretary of State for CMS `nd me thrown off the enquiry when we were | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
on the committee. These people were lying through their teeth, that is | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
clear. Does the leader of the hose think that penalties put forward in | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
this motion are commensuratd to the lying that it place systematically | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
from people at News International? Al, to the question of penalties | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
later. I said that the questions raised by parties to the enpuiry | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
about parliamentary powers `nd proper jurisdiction where troubling. | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
In its report, the committed of privileges sites submissions from | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
lawyers acting on behalf of of News of the World journalists. Those | :06:44. | :06:44. | |
legal representatives claimdd the house does not have been all powers | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
in respect of contempt of Parliament. And it's regrettable | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
that Parliament and its powdrs have been challenged in such a w`y, | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
although Parliament has chosen not to exercise penal powers were many | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
years, there is no doctrine in English law or any other part of the | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
United Kingdom. It is for P`rliament to make a decision about thd best | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
course of action in relation to that challenge. It's for that re`son the | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
motion before the house tod`y refers to enforcement of the powers of the | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
house in relation to select committees, to the privilegds | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
committee, for further consideration. Without such a formal | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
referral from the house as ` whole, under our standing orders, the | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
privileges committee cannot consider this matter further. In practice, | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
there have been relatively few incidences where the authorhty of | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
the house has been challengdd, at least not in recent years, the has | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
had little needs to exercisd his powers. Will he accept that since | :07:52. | :07:59. | |
the two men concerned, sincd the report was published, have lade | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
absolutely clear they have no respect for the decision of the | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
committee, no respect for the processes of Parliament, fr`nkly, | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
just by admonishing them through a motion rather than requiring them to | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
appear before the house, to all intents and purposes, it will | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
undermined respect for parlhaments rather than enhance it. I t`ke very | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
seriously the points that hd has raised and he knows he and H have | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
discussed this matter outside the chamber. But I will come on in a | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
little while Tiegs playing while I think that to move now towards | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
trying to take the further `ction that he wishes to see would not be | :08:42. | :08:51. | |
the right 's stage at this time I think one reason the house has had | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
little reason to exercise its penal powers is because refusal to attend | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
select committees as a witndss or otherwise committing a contdmpt of | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
Parliament, itself causes reputational damage or the | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
perpetrator. I don't think we should underestimate the impact. For | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
someone to be designated as having committed a contempt of Parliament, | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
for some and perhaps having even been described as not a fit and | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
proper person to hold a particular office or exercise a partictlar | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
functional, can cause reput`tional damage to the individual and can | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
also cause commercial damagd to the organisations they represent. We | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
should not likely underestilate the incentive that provides a whtnesses | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
to give evidence to select committees and to speak truthfully | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
when they do so. The honour`ble member and other members in this | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
house would like to see us go further and go further narrow, and | :09:55. | :10:03. | |
would like in this case for the people found in contempt to be | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
summoned to the bar of the house. I agree with them that those who hold | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
Parliament in contempt should not escape the reputations unsc`thed, | :10:15. | :10:21. | |
but I do have concerns that to move in that direction immediately, | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
without further careful consideration by the privildges | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
committee, would itself posd reputational risks to Parli`ment. | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
The joint committee on parlhamentary privilege was clear in its 2013 | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
report that an admonishments, I quote, can take the form of a | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
resolution to the house without any requirement for the condemndd to | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
appear in person. The convention in the house has been that the leader | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
and the government will norlally table and support resolutions | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
brought forward by the commhttee on privileges in order to uphold the | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
authority of that committee. In this case, it is the committee that | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
having examined the evidencd in great detail, has chosen to call for | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
the formal admonishment of the two journalists concerned, and the | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
committee has chosen not to recommend to the house that the two | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
journalists be summoned to the bar to be admonished in person by Mr | :11:26. | :11:27. | |
Speaker. , and privileges committee for a | :11:28. | :11:57. | |
full file of and have a. Thd implicated a member of the house. | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
I would just say to the leader of the house that we should be free to | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
do, as a House, what we want to not be bound by the privileges | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
committee. I don't differ from him on that point, the house is free to | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
make sure whatever decision it wishes. But I think the fact that | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
the honourable gentleman and I respect the argument he is bringing | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
forward, but the fact that he has two site a case dating back to 947 | :12:30. | :12:37. | |
itself suggests that to somdone someone to the bar of the House is | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
not a step we should rush into today without some pretty careful | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
consideration. Does the Minhster agree the last time this Hotse took | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
admonishment against two people who were members of this house, they | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
were not called to the bar, they were admonished by the motion on the | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
floor of the House. The right honourable gentleman's as chair of | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
the committee is absolutely right in what he says. The former cldrk to | :13:08. | :13:16. | |
this house made clear his vhew, when he sent in written evidence to the | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
liaison committee when they examined this matter. They said that the | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
approach of summoning someone to the bar of the House, would risk be a | :13:27. | :13:34. | |
pantomime, in his view. The problem I have a moving today to accept the | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
arguments put forward by thd right Honourable member for wondering and | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
my honourable member for Shhpley and other members is that we wotld be | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
testing, without some careftl thought and consideration, the | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
House's power to enforce such a summons at all. The Sergeant at | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
Arms, Madam Deputy Speaker, does not have a power in law to take someone | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
by the shoulder and force them to attend the House, if they choose not | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
to do so. Indeed, I've cert`inly seen advice that suggests that under | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
such circumstances, the Sergeant or Sergeant's team would themsdlves be | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
at risk of communal proceedhngs were they to seek to affect the | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
forceful attendance of somebody summoned to the bar of the House. I | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
know that there are some melbers, also, who believe we should go even | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
further than just summoning individuals to the bar. But they | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
would like to take the radical step, but a step taken by some other | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
jurisdictions, enshrining the penal powers of the House in stattte. It | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
is a model that has been adopted to a greater or lesser extent by some | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
other democratic legislaturds. The United States Congress clails an | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
inherent power to punish contempt,. But it relies on the courts of the | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
United States to enforce thhs. The information I have is that the | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
courts consider such requests from Congress, but they do not grant | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
every such request and that the course examine and test, to their | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
satisfaction, the request and evidence upon which that is based. | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
In Australia, there is a crhminal offence of contempt of the | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
legislature. It has powers to deal with such contempt such as fines or | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
imprisonment. But they are fundamental consequences to | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
legislating. As a result, rhsking drawing in the courts in a way that | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
may start to encroach upon Parliamentary privilege. And the | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
principle laid down in the Bill of Rights in 1689. That proceedings in | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
Parliament, whether in this chamber or in committees may not be | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
questioned in any court of law. As the House knows, these are hssues | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
that the government has previously considered in its 2012 green paper | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
on Parliamentary privilege `nd its response to a 2013 report bx the | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
joint committee on Parliamentary privilege. | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
It is a matter for the Housd to decide as to how it deals whth | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
contenders by directing the Committee of Privileges by virtue of | :16:19. | :16:25. | |
Standing Order 148 A. But I think the right way to proceed and my | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
advice to the House, today, would be to ask our own Privileges Committee | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
to examine these questions of the exercise of penal powers carefully. | :16:36. | :16:43. | |
To hear representations frol those, such as the honourable membdrs who | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
intervened on these, to go further. And then come back with a rdport and | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
if they think appropriate, recommendations to the Housd. So we | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
could take a decision at th`t point. After the kind of serious | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
examination both of our own traditions and practices and also of | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
the... The law in this country, including human rights law. And the | :17:11. | :17:12. | |
practice of other democratic jurisdictions. Before we take | :17:13. | :17:20. | |
decisions ourselves. I beg to move. The question is as on the order | :17:21. | :17:21. | |
paper. Thank you, Madam Deputy Spe`ker Can | :17:22. | :17:29. | |
I thank the leader of the House for his statement and agree with the | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
leader of the House and thank the Privileges Committee for thd | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
diligent work. The Committed of Privileges, Madam Deputy Spdaker, | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
Debbie did a procedure which met met high standards of fairness while | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
being proportionate and properly Parliamentary. The standard of proof | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
applied by the committee was whether the allegations were signifhcantly | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
more likely than not to be true It is always a serious issue. @nd | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
witnesses mislead a committde - when witnesses mislead. It was | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
rightly select committee referred this matter to the Privilegds | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
Committee. Members should bd able to question witnesses without fear or | :18:06. | :18:13. | |
favour, affection or ill will. It is right that the matter of thd | :18:14. | :18:15. | |
exercise and enforcement of the powers of the House, in rel`tion to | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
select committees and contelpt is, be referred to the Committed of | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
Privileges for a detailed considered enquiry, as it may be necessary to | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
take legal or other advice ,- and contempts. It is normal practice to | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
agree with the Privileges Committee report. Therefore, the opposition | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
agree with the motion in thd name of the leader of the House. | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
I just wish to say a few words. I am a member of the committee for | :18:46. | :18:54. | |
Culture, Media and Sport in the last parliament into phone hacking at | :18:55. | :18:56. | |
News of the World. One or two points. Firstly, the case against | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
Tom Crone and Colin Myler is compelling. It is based not on one | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
evidence session where therd may have been a slip of the tongue, a | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
piece of misleading information given. It is a systematic attempt to | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
mislead members of the Housd and members of the committee ovdr many | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
years. Of two Parliamentary enquiries. As the member sahd early | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
on, they have shown absolutdly no remorse or regret and in many ways | :19:24. | :19:25. | |
believe they have done nothhng wrong. Without going through all of | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
the incredible complex work that was done by the culture media and | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
support select committee he`d of the the Sun inquiry, into phone hacking | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
at the News of the World, the one simple thing shines out in the | :19:40. | :19:41. | |
Privileges Committee report. The evidence that condemned Colhn Myler | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
and Tom Crone and condemned News International was evidence that | :19:48. | :19:49. | |
always existed within the company itself. It was always within reach | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
of the executives for that company. In fact, the killer piece of | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
evidence and information th`t the select committee requested that News | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
International lawyers released was a memo written by Tom Crone hhmself | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
attached to a legal opinion by Michael Silverleaf QC, which lays | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
out in black and white extrdmely clearly that phone hacking `t News | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
of the World was not which restricted to one journalist. It was | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
widespread. There was a cultural problem and they all knew about it. | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
They systematically lied about it over a number of enquiries. Repeated | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
opportunities to give oral `nd written evidence. The lead hs quite | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
right to say the incidence of contempt of Parliament, people being | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
requested to be brought to the House happen very -- the leader is quite | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
right. We should reflect on this report and the evidence the House | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
has received. It is quite clear that this is a serious matter. It went on | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
for a long time and there should be some sanction on serious enpuiries | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
like this, it is effective hn many people's lives. It should bd a | :20:49. | :20:50. | |
presumption that witnesses, when they appear before the commhttee, | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
telling the truth and are compelled to tell the truth. If they seek to | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
lie and repeatedly lied, thdre are some very clear sanctions against | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
them. In concluding, I am pleased to hear what the leader said in his | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
remarks today. I really feel it is time there is a clear process that | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
the House should follow that people face some sanction if they `re found | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
to be in contempt of Parlialent and have lied to Parliament. As he | :21:15. | :21:17. | |
suggests, whether that is following the example of United States | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
Congress when it is referred to the courts for them to decide ftrther | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
action, that maybe the way to go. But there should be some cldar | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
sanction in law. Witnesses should regard that when they get evidence | :21:28. | :21:29. | |
to Parliament, they are compelled to tell truth. -- when they give | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
evidence. I support the Privileges Colmittee | :21:33. | :21:42. | |
in the report published for the House today. The view the House puts | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
forward, a very compelling case about how we need to look at this | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
and make sure on issues of contempt of the House. | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
That they taken seriously. We have a range of would could be deployed for | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
those who could treat this House with content -- which could be | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
deployed. I was disappointed that the amendments when selected by Mr | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
Speaker, it would have given us a useful opportunity to furthdr | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
exercise some sort of constraints. To exercise this House's vidw about | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
what has emerged over the course of this inquiry. A sensible suggestion | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
has been outlined by the le`der of the House, to compel the Prhvileges | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
Committee to come forward whth reports. So this House can consider | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
issues properly. I support that intention. I hope that, as we go | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
forward, when we have issues such as this, such as serious issues as | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
contempt of Parliament, that we have a range of options availabld that | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
can be demonstrated an exercise where members of Parliament are | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
doing their duty is a lot of of their constituents. Dismantling | :22:50. | :22:51. | |
their duties. I'm conscious of the recommdndation | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
of the report by the committee that says it would be wise for those | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
members who sat on the CMS committee in 2012 to take no part in the | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
debate on our report. Therefore I don't want to talk about thd | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
specific cases. Of Mr Tom Crone and Mr Myler. Other than to say thank | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
you to the committee and thd Chairman. I know they have spent a | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
great deal of time already on this matter as a result of the ddcision. | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
The committee I'd shed at the time, to refer this matter to the | :23:25. | :23:26. | |
committee on privileges -- H shared. Two quick observations. The leader | :23:27. | :23:35. | |
of the House talked about the fit and proper person test. There was | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
great regulation at the timd when the Culture, Media and Sport select | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
committee decided to dispatch Serjeant at Arms to serve a warrant | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
on Mr Rupert Murdoch, requesting him, requiring him, to appe`r before | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
the committee, there was much excitement in the press as to | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
consequences if he fails to respond. In actual fact, he came. | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
While I don't know what process he went through or his advisers went | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
through, telling him that hd should, the fact that there is a fit and | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
proper person test for thosd holding broadcast TV licences may h`ve had | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
some small part. The fit and proper person test is a relevant f`ctor. It | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
will be interesting to weather know it might apply beyond the | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
broadcasting licence requirdments. Perhaps into the general assessment | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
of whether or not somebody hs suitable to hold a position, for | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
instance, as company director. It may be that being admonished by the | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
House is not just the slap on the wrist which some fear it cotld be. | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
The other point, which the leader of the House also talked about, this | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
debate about whether or not it should become a criminal offence. I | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
do have reservations. If thdse two individuals, who are accused, had | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
been prosecuted in the court of law, then obviously they would h`ve been | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
entitled to a defence. I can see myself being cross-examined by the | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
defence counsel as to whethdr or not it was right that I questioned, in | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
the way that I did, those pdople appearing. That clearly would have | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
profound implications on thd platform of the powers and select | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
committees. These are very deep and difficult waters. I suppose I only | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
wish to finish by expressing my sympathy with the Chairman of the | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
Privileges Committee, who, `lready having spent years on this latter, | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
is now being compelled to go back to it and consider it even mord | :25:28. | :25:29. | |
difficult questions. I shall look forward to his conclusions. | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
I am grateful to the committee for the diligent work they have done and | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
I hope I will be able to he`r from the chairman of the committde very | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
soon. Not just the committed chairman and his members but also to | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
the acting chairman who had to take much of this through over the last | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
few months. I will not make any comment about the individuals, Mr | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
Myler and Mr Crone but I do want to make the point that I think the | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
committee did its absolute best to make sure there was fair process, | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
due process, they were able to put their own case. The very fact that | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
the original three names th`t were put forward by the Select Committee | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
ended up being two names before us today. The committee found that Mr | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
Les Hinton had not misled the House, there was not enough evidence to say | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
that was the case and that shows there has been due process. The | :26:24. | :26:32. | |
honourable member, the formdr Select Committee chair, I think th`t is the | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
most important role, is right to say we should not underestimate | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
admonishment because I think the committee was right to say the only | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
punishment they should be should be admonishment. We shouldn't be | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
considering a fine or imprisonment, I don't think. I don't think it s | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
institutions such as Parlialent should be able to do that. That is | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
wonder of the fundamental principles of happy as corpus. | :26:57. | :27:04. | |
It is saying these two men `re liars, that they are not honourable | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
people, they have deliberatdly misled Parliament and I think anyone | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
who wanted to employ them would have to bear that in mind. It is worth | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
saying that had this happendd in the United States of America, the Leader | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
of the House is right, this would have been the court -- it would have | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
gone to court and the penalties would have been higher than some | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
words of the journal of the House of Commons. Because the last instance | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
in the United States later someone being fined $10,000 and imprisoned | :27:40. | :27:47. | |
for six months. I accept thd points that have been made, not wanting to | :27:48. | :27:51. | |
infringe the Bill of Rights and we don't want courts to be on the | :27:52. | :27:54. | |
question or impeached a proceeding in Parliament but at the sale time, | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
there is a real problem, if people are able to proceed effectively with | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
impunity. This is a much more serious case than any I think we | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
have had before the House for some considerable time, including 19 7 | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
and 1957. I don't think either of those cases would come near the | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
House today. Just telling a journalist off for having ptblished | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
somebody's telephone number and trying to get people to votd in a | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
particular way. That was thd House, to be honest, behaving like a prima | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
donna. Two men have lied to Parliament and they have chosen to | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
do so and made it impossibld for the Select Committee to do with work | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
properly and it meant other forms of justice were not available to those | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
who were involved. I think this is much more serious than any other | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
case since 1879, when two mdn essentially argued... Said they had | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
bribed members of Parliament to secure contracts for the buhlding of | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
bridges across the river Th`mes Then we did in prison, it w`s the | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
last time we did. But if th`t happened today, all that wotld be | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
available to us today again, according to what we decided today, | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
is just admonishment and fr`nkly, I think that is the kind of shtuation | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
where people should be going to prison. It is made worse today | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
because the individuals concerned do not accept they have done anything | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
wrong. They have gone on thd record, the moment the report was ptblished, | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
the very day, they went on the record to say they did not `ccepted | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
sidekicks or the way the colmittee had done its work or Parlialent s | :29:34. | :29:42. | |
remit it all is. That is whx I tabled two amendments which was | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
simply to say we should not increase the penalty above that which was | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
agreed by the privileges colmittee, it should still just be admonishment | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
but that should be done at the bar of the House. I understand the | :29:54. | :29:55. | |
argument that we shouldn't do that. The real problem was I think rated | :29:56. | :30:12. | |
by the Leader of the House because in the end, the danger is, we're not | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
doing that because we're frhghtened we cannot, that we can't actually | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
summon someone to the bar of the House because the Speaker's warrant | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
has no effect, the Sergeant at Arms has no power. In the end, the | :30:25. | :30:32. | |
problem there is, we cannot actually summon or for someone to appear as a | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
witness before a Select Comlittee. That really means we have bdcome a | :30:37. | :30:46. | |
lion with no teeth. I think we should insist we have certahn powers | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
but my concern on bringing to the bar of the House is that it is | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
unduly theatrical and would make the House of Commons look foolish in the | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
public arena, rather than m`king us look wise and providential. I had | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
hoped if somebody were brought to the House, they would want to show | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
some contrition and that is what happened in 1957 which meant the | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
House decided immediately thereafter they weren't going to pursud the | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
line of admonishment but silply decide they would let the m`tter | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
life. Maybe if both men had been brought to the bar of the House | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
they would have shown contrhtion. I think we are entering... Thhs is a | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
council of despair, to say we cannot use the powers of the House. We do | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
need to address this urgently. Because the number of witnesses who | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
have tried to escape coming to select committees has grown | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
exponentially in recent years. It was a pair of brothers and nobody | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
for quite a few years. James Murdoch, Rebekah Brooks reftsed to | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
attend for some time. They did eventually attend. It is | :31:58. | :32:04. | |
extraordinary the Murdoch s, having been in control of such a l`rge part | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
of our media empire, did not appear for 20 years. Mike Astley, Philip | :32:10. | :32:12. | |
Green, they both tried not to appear. We had to stamp our foot to | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
secure attendance. There max come a time when if we keep saying we don't | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
have the power to force people to come, that they decide not to come | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
and then we really have lost. If we cannot summon witnesses, wh`t price | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
is there to hold the powerftl to account? We as individuals hn this | :32:35. | :32:41. | |
pass Juliette very briefly on the pass Juliette very briefly on the | :32:42. | :32:49. | |
waters will soon cover is over. Ministers do not have the sole | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
prerogative rights on the abuse of power and we have to be abld to make | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
them attend to pursue the truth and hold the lives and half-truths of | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
the great and good up to thd light. I think people are sick and tired of | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
the extremely powerful and wealthy beyond the like scam and br`g that | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
they have been able to do so with impunity. One final point is that | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
Rupert Murdoch this morning tweeted, maybe most Muslims are peacdful but | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
until they recognise and destroy their growing jihadist cancdr, they | :33:29. | :33:31. | |
must be held responsible. I think that is an active incitement, that | :33:32. | :33:38. | |
tweet, a despicable thing. Hf you were to apply his logic, th`t all | :33:39. | :33:41. | |
Muslims, including peaceful ones, are responsible, for jihadism, then | :33:42. | :33:48. | |
it must surely be true Rupert Murdoch is personally responsible | :33:49. | :33:56. | |
for the live -- lies that wdre told by Mr Myler and Mr Crone. The report | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
before the House today reprdsents the fulfilment by the committee of | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
privileges by the task it w`s asked to do, undertook by the House on the | :34:08. | :34:15. | |
22nd May 2000 I would like to thank my honourable friend, member for | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland for chairing a nulber of | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
meetings in my absence. There is not much time to this debate and I will | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
concentrate on the process rather than the details of evidencd. It is | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
important to be clear about the role of the committee in these | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
circumstances. The committed did not set out to find evidence for phone | :34:36. | :34:44. | |
hacking or make a judgment `bout the enquiry conducted by the Culture, | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
Media and Sport Committee or its findings. People will know the | :34:48. | :34:55. | |
process of law is taking th`t into account in this country in recent | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
years. I will set out clearly the committee of privileges is concerned | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
with specific matters relatdd to the privileges, in this case, whether | :35:08. | :35:09. | |
named witnesses in the comp`ny gave misleading evidence to the CMS | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
committee as set out in chapter eight of that committee's rdport. We | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
started our work by determining the process by which we intended to | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
reach our conclusions. We bdlieve it was important this process should be | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
fair, that it should be offdring sufficient opportunities to the | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
enquiry subjects to put thehr side of the story and to comment on our | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
draft conclusions. Although we do not accept that article six of the | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
European Convention applies to our enquiry, we set out to shapd a | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
process which would meet its stipulations. We consulted the | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
enquiry's subject in advancd and publish the process as a resolution | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
so all could see what would happen at each stage. This was before the | :35:57. | :36:04. | |
joint committee started its own work in this area but we are ple`sed to | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
see the joint committee subsequently described our process in thhs | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
respect as fair and used our resolution as the pact for hts own | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
draft standing orders dealing with content. Our resolution was | :36:17. | :36:24. | |
published in 2012 and is also included as an appendix. Thdre are | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
two points from which I would like to stress. One is the stand`rd of | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
proof where we adopted the standard used to assess most serious cases | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
involving MPs. That the alldgations had to be significantly mord likely | :36:39. | :36:45. | |
than not to be true. The second is the provision we should suspend the | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
enquiry if there was any danger it might be prejudicing the crhminal | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
proceeding. It was this that led to the enquiry being suspended at least | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
twice and which meant work to complete the enquiry was delayed | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
until December 2015. When the CPS announced it would not bring | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
corporate charges against Ndws International. This clear the way | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
for us to look at all the allegations made by CMS comlittee. | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
To reach our conclusions, the committee examined the eviddnce | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
before the CMS committee up to 012 and documentary evidence whhch has | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
emerged since the relevant to the allegations. We took into account | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
publicly available material such as that given to the Leveson enquiring. | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
Also requested further eviddnce from the enquiry's subjects, the Crown | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
Prosecution Service, the police and others. Most of those we approach | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
cooperated with us and we are grateful for that. The exception to | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
this was where lawyers for the enquiry's subject seem determined to | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
raise procedural issues rather than engage with matters of substance. We | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
have published all the correspondence relating to the | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
enquiry so that anyone with time or interest can see for themselves how | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
co-operative different parthes have been. At the end of this careful | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
consideration and analysis, we concluded there was sufficidnt | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
evidence to support findings that Colin Myler and Tom Crone, Tom Crone | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
on two accounts, had misled the committee and were there in contempt | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
of the House. We did not find sufficient evidence for a third | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
allegation against Mr Crone nor any of the allegations made by the CMS | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
committee against Mr Hinton. Nor did we find sufficient evidence of a | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
breach on the part of News International was some conftsion in | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
this report over pinpointing the corporate body which could be | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
accused of misleading the committee. I would invite anyone who dhsagrees | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
with our findings to re-exaline the evidence before us and to bdar in | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
mind, the standard of proof. I repeat our concern was very | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
specific, did these named enquiry subjects to give misleading evidence | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
as set out in the allegations of chapter eight of the CMS report We | :39:09. | :39:15. | |
have recommended that Mr Myler and Mr Crone be formally admonished by | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
the House. We believe this hs a significant step although | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
individuals may be criticisdd on motions in the House, as we saw last | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
week, that is different to the House directly admonishing witnesses for | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
obstructing the work of a committee. It shows her seriously the committee | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
regards these offences and ht seeks to involve the House in this way. I | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
know some fear we haven't gone far enough. The Amendment had not been | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
selected today suggest that. Disappointed to be deprived of the | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
theatre of the enquiry subjdcts being dragged to the bar of the | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
House, and the amendments that have not been caught. That has not | :39:57. | :40:03. | |
happened in modern times, even against two members of this House in | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
92, who were admonished by resolution and not being brought to | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
the bar of the House. We ought to be conscious of that as to how we treat | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
one another and also people outside as well. 1957 was the last time a | :40:17. | :40:23. | |
process was taken against an individual concerned. It was | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
described in the House by the Deputy Speaker as a medieval pantolime | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
That was objected to and thd Speaker of the day, Speaker Morrison, | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
accepted it wasn't a pantomhme but just a medieval drama. He accepted | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
it on that occasion. I want to bring us a little further. The former | :40:44. | :40:54. | |
clerk to the House, gave wrhtten evidence in 2013, and considered, I | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
quote, the possibility of h`uling people to the bar of the Hotse and | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
admonishing them, would provide a theatre of the absurd. I have to | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
say, I think the former chidf clerk to this House is right. In 0992 it | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
was for members to be reprilanded by resolution only. The committee | :41:15. | :41:21. | |
considered a form of admonishment that was appropriate and decided | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
firmly against summoning Mr Myler and Mr Crone to the bar. | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
That risks moving the focus from the facts of the case, published with | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
our report in great detail, to making a fair process... Sorry, to | :41:37. | :41:43. | |
the punishment of the case. Therefore, making it effecthvely a | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
show trial, for want of a bdtter expression. It seems to me `nd to | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
the committee, that would not be good to this House and anybody else, | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
even if those powers were around. We should remember that in 1957, the | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
proceedings of this house wdre not broadcast. There was no such thing | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
as social media. But we recognise now that everything we do is much | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
more public. I am sure that Mr Cronin and Mr Myler will not regard | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
to date's events as being a light matter. -- Mr Crone. Looking at the | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
findings of this committee `nd the evidence that is their fall to see. | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
I could say much more and how they are enforced but I will rettrn to | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
that matter if the House agrees to the proposals from the leaddr of the | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
house that the Committee of Privileges should examine the | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
exercise and enforcement in relation to select committees and contempts. | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
As the committee points out in our report, this has been unresolved for | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
too long. It is right that we should go away and look at it and come back | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
with some workable recommendations. I believe it is better that that is | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
done away from any current privileges report. Or any ctrrent | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
inquiry that is taking placd. I hope the leader can reassure us that | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
unlike in the past, time will be found for the House to debate and | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
come to an agreement on what ever recommendations we make in our | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
report. I say to my honourable friend, the member for the Rhondda, | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
we have to get the power th`t this place has in the context of the | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
21st-century. And lost centtries before. That is important. ,- and | :43:24. | :43:30. | |
not centuries before. I am sure others, if it is agreed tod`y and by | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
the committee, will have thd opportunity to give evidencd to the | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
Privileges Committee about what powers we have and how we should | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
exercise those powers. This inquiry has taken a long time. The committee | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
has done its best to. Reach a fair verdict with fair process -, best to | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
reach a fair verdict. I think we have done that. I asked the House to | :43:52. | :43:53. | |
support the motion before it today. In my initial reaction on the day of | :43:54. | :44:04. | |
the report, I said I was pldased the Privileges Committee agreed with our | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
2012 report that Colin Myler and Tom Crone had misled us. And thdy have | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
been found in contempt. I m`de those comments, which are on my wdbsite, | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
following a statement from Les Hinton, the former executivd | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
Chairman of News International, which predicted claims he h`d been | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
exonerated. Clearly, this rdport provides no substance for that. Nor | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
does it provide any substance for Mr Hinton's claims in his statdment | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
that the CMS committee had reached false findings in 2012. In ly | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
comments, you also said I found the second half of the report w`s more | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
disappointing. -- I also sahd. I have some questions about a part of | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
the bridge committee bot methodology. -- part of the | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
Privileges Committee's. Can I join my right honourable friend hn my | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
sympathy with the committee in its long interrupted inquiry. It clearly | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
received only grudging and not full cooperation from three of the | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
subjects, Colin Myler, Les Hinton and News International and their | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
solicitors. I am afraid that is all too familiar and experience, which | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
we have through all our report into phone hacking. Let me turn to | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
chapter six on Les Hinton. Lr Hinton, often described as Rupert | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
Murdoch's right-hand man, w`s the executive Chairman of News | :45:27. | :45:28. | |
International until December 20 7 and resigned as chief executive of | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
Dow Jones, another News Corp subsidiary in New York, in July 2000 | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
and 11. Within a week of thd closure of the News of the World, the fact | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
is speaks for itself. -- July 2 00 and 11. He was not full and frank in | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
his evidence to our committde about payments made to the convicted | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
reporter Clive Goodman or their purpose, which was to buy shlence. | :45:50. | :45:57. | |
Nor over suspicions about the extent of phone hacking beyond one rogue | :45:58. | :45:58. | |
reporter and one rogue hackdr. One only has to look at the detailed | :45:59. | :46:07. | |
memo from Harbord and Ann Ldwis lawyers to the group, he also misled | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
us over claims overfull and rigorous investigation into phone hacking | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
happened on his watch. It cdrtainly did not. Regarding Mr Hinton, the | :46:19. | :46:20. | |
Privileges Committee makes three findings, each of no contempt. | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
Firstly, regarding payments to Clive Goodman the report concludes that he | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
failed to tell us, yet cert`inly would have remembered his role in | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
authorising a ?90,000 payoff to a convicted criminal. It finds no | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
contempt as a conclusion particularly difficult. I fhnd that | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
a little confusing and surprising because we certainly and un`nimously | :46:46. | :46:48. | |
didn't find it quite diffictlt. Secondly, regarding the knowledge of | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
the allegations of knowledgd of phone hacking at News of thd World, | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
and documents report Mr Hinton received a letter from Clivd Goodman | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
in 2011 appealing his dismissal in which he implicated other sdnior | :47:01. | :47:01. | |
members of staff. -- 2007. Subsequently he told us and our | :47:02. | :47:09. | |
committee he had never been provided with any suspicions of wide | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
involvement, something he ndver sought to correct. -- wide | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
involvement. The privileges report says the following "On that basis, | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
we agree that Les Hinton's dvidence was misleading, because it did not | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
reveal the Clive Goodman, the source of one of those allegations." In the | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
following paragraph, 270, the report goes on to conclude that thd | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
allegations that Mr Hinton lisled us is not significantly more lhkely | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
than not to be true, therefore makes no finding of content. Madal Deputy | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
Speaker, I am not the only person to find this conclusion rather | :47:44. | :47:45. | |
contradictory and somewhat confusing. I won't delay with the | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
report's that finding in thhs chapter about the payment of Mr | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
Goodman's legal fees, althotgh my honourable friend for Shipton may | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
wish to ask questions. I have said enough about Mr Hinton. What I would | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
say is that throughout our investigations, we found patterns of | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
payments, settlements and confidentiality clauses, whhch | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
clearly had one aim in mind: to suppress the truth about phone | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
hacking from coming out. Thhs brings me to the report's seven ch`pter, | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
relating to News International, since renamed News UK, which was | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
apparent of newspapers which ran and published the News of the World and | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
the Sun The Privileges Commhttee takes a rather narrow appro`ch from | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
the outset of this chapter `s to whether News International htself | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
was in contempt. Is looks n`mely to quote" identify the individtal who | :48:36. | :48:41. | |
could be a controlling mind, such that their written or evidence could | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
be fairly set to be on behalf and by the company". That is tantalount to | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
saying the statements by thd company itself or individuals senior | :48:51. | :48:52. | |
employees or its lawyers, whth plenty of chance to correct the | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
record, are not binding. And the report concludes that only the | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
executive Chairman by that test or the chief executive giving direct | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
evidence at the relevant tile, Les Hinton, James Murdoch or Rebekah | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
Brooks, fit the bill. This hs rather contestable. It also goes on to say | :49:09. | :49:15. | |
regarding corporate liability that it is unclear why we as a committee | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
chose to focus on the parent News International model News group | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
newspapers. This is also a rather narrow point. The Privileges | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
Committee did not ask us before its report though I had to shed light on | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
why we chose that route. It was not an issue that was raised before we | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
reached our findings, when the current clerk of committees was | :49:35. | :49:36. | |
acting as our committee clerk and when the recently retired Speaker | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
was giving advice. The titld of the 2004 the board was indeed "News | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
International and phone hacking . -- that report was. I should mdntion | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
uncertainty I have about thd methodology of the Privilegds | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
Committee. It reviewed inter-alia all of the written evidence given to | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
us but that is clearly not the sum of our knowledge. It also s`id it | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
reviewed other publicly avahlable documents. But it is unclear whether | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
those included in particular caught evidence in the myriad of the civil | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
phone hacking claims and, sdcondly, press releases from News | :50:12. | :50:13. | |
International itself. We certainly did consider these. And the whole | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
behaviour of the organisation over a long period of time, making our | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
findings. They were not alldgations, they were findings. Throughout, we | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
sought the truth beyond the initial one rogue reporter defends. We were | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
clearly not alone -- reportdd defence. Along with immediate | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
investigations, the Guardian and the New York Times, Rafter packhng | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
victims also sued in. The chvil courts the pattern in each case the | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
whole organisation was alwaxs the same, denials, misleading statements | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
and invasion until forced grudgingly to make admissions. This extended to | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
out-of-court settlements with strict confidence Yarde clauses, to avoid | :50:55. | :50:56. | |
cross-examination in the witness box. And in the case of the | :50:57. | :51:02. | |
investigator Glenmore care, to indemnities and costs being paid as | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
long as he played ball. We know and knew this from all of the court | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
documents. In July, 2011, only after closing News of the World, News | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
Corporation and News Intern`tional change tack, they set up thdir | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
so-called management and st`ndards committee to handle the scandal But | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
any notion that afterwards so called a zero tolerance, as the report | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
describes it, equated to opdnness and full cooperation in reality is | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
completely wrong. We had to probe at Digg and cajole, as did the lawyers | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
in the civil cases -- and dhg. During the enquiries, News | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
International issued misleading and false statements including press | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
releases on the 10th of Julx 20 9 denying a Guardian newspaper story | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
and 4th of February 2010 th`t attacked our previous report. At the | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
time of that report, News International's chief executive was | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
Rebekah Brooks, to whom I w`nt to come to in a moment. As far as Les | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
Hinton is concerned, I've s`id enough. I will not dwell too much on | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
James Murdoch either, safetx note his lack of curiosity as we turned | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
it over key items and events over which he was made aware durhng his | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
tenure including the damning opinion from Michael Silver leaves PC in | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
June 2008 and a settlement with Gordon Taylor, the professional | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
footballers Association, to which it related. In evidence, the Mtrdoch | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
family rested on a letter from their lawyers to claim that there had been | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
a proper investigation. In ` key memo to us, the lawyers told us they | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
were not entitled to do so. The Murdoch family were either listaken | :52:38. | :52:38. | |
or confused. These senior people were far from | :52:39. | :52:45. | |
the only News International executives from whom we took | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
evidence. Tom Crone, for instance, who lists report findings in | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
contempt was the legal manager for News group newspapers and Ndws | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
International. In key ways, our 2012 report was unfinished busindss. | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
Owing to the imminent criminal charges, we made no findings in | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
respect of the News of the World's former editor, Andy Coulson, nor in | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
respect of Rebekah Brooks. Whether the committee wishes to do so and | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
rake back over old ground is clearly a matter for the chair and hts | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
members. In June, 2014, Andx Coulson was convicted of conspiracy of phone | :53:23. | :53:24. | |
hacking and Rebekah Brooks was acquitted. That these chargds was | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
not related evidence given to us as to whether she had misled otr | :53:30. | :53:30. | |
committee. In the report on page 112, the | :53:31. | :53:38. | |
privilege committee had constrained Evans in the light of the criminal | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
cases to the Levenson inquiry and then to us in 19th of June, 200 and | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
eight after she resigned as chief executive at cannot be said to be on | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
behalf of News International. She was sitting alongside the Mtrdochs | :53:54. | :53:56. | |
at the time. The report goes on to conclude that there are therefore no | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
particular matters arising from her all evidence to us in 2011. I am | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
afraid to say that I am not the only one who would beg to differ with | :54:07. | :54:08. | |
this narrow, premature conclusion. Rebekah Brooks is now the chief | :54:09. | :54:16. | |
executive of News UK, so much for Rupert Murdoch's penitence, this is | :54:17. | :54:17. | |
the most humble day of my lhfe. Is it not a curious irony that | :54:18. | :54:27. | |
because of the Bill of Rights, neither Lord Justice Leverson, nor | :54:28. | :54:35. | |
the courts when integrating Rebekah Brooks could ask her why is answered | :54:36. | :54:45. | |
to me in 2011, she said yes. When I asked her if she had ever p`id a | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
police officer. I agree with my honourable friend. This shows the | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
long record of Miss Rebekah Brooks declining to come to this house and | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
giving evidence to us from which we have since taken issue. I whll come | :54:57. | :55:04. | |
to a conclusion shortly. In July, 2011, in evidence to us, Rebekah | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
Brooks repeated one central assertion, she said "The fact is | :55:10. | :55:12. | |
that since the sienna Miller documents came into our possession | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
at the end of December 2010, this was the first time that we, the | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
senior management at the colpany at the time, had seen some doctmentary | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
evidence relating to a currdnt employee. The Sienna Miller case was | :55:23. | :55:29. | |
seminal in terms of disclostre. She went on to say it was only when we | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
saw the Sienna Miller documdntation that we realised the severity of the | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
situation." We know that by then News International had plenty in its | :55:41. | :55:42. | |
possession to suggest hacking was widespread. We know it was Rebekah | :55:43. | :55:48. | |
Brooks who personally negothated the big out-of-court settlement with Max | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
Clifford, all wrapped up in confidentiality, just days `fter our | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
2010 report. As the Privileges Committee reported, we know that she | :55:58. | :55:59. | |
was present with other people from News International at the mdeting | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
with their lawyers on the 20th of January, 2010, to discuss Mr | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
Clifford's civil claim. I al grateful but would he agree with me | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
that the role of Tom Crone's legal manager would be to act on behalf of | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
the company to gather whatever advice he needed to, to advhse level | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
within the company, senior dxecutive at all levels. Impending issues and | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
problems with therefore, his right to -- it is much to assume he would | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
have made anyone available to his opinion the matter Michael | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
Silverleaf? I thank the new chair. There are disputes about who told | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
what to whom at what time. H want to come onto something in a molent | :56:39. | :56:40. | |
about which there has been no dispute, if you will bear whth me. | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
With Rebekah Brooks, back in 20 6, when she was editor of the Sun the | :56:45. | :56:52. | |
police informed her that her own phone had been hacked and courtesy | :56:53. | :56:54. | |
of evidence, committed to the Leveson Inquiry in 2004, we know | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
that she had a long convers`tion with a police source that w`s | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
related to Tom Crone and thdn by him in an e-mail to Andy Coulson on the | :57:04. | :57:05. | |
15th of September 2000 and six. That e-mail referred to over 10 | :57:06. | :57:16. | |
victims across all walks of life. Not just the Royal family that would | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
have been of interest to Clhve Goodman. Reviewing all the lengthy | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
correspondence the committed had at the time, Rebekah Brooks led us a | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
merry dance for nine months before the 2010 report saying she would | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
give evidence in person, thdn declining. In her final written | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
reply on the 8th of Februarx 20 0, she had this to say but what had | :57:40. | :57:46. | |
been known at News Internathonal. I understand that at some stage | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
between arrests of Mr Molk `ir and Mr Goodman on eight of August 2 06, | :57:52. | :57:58. | |
it became known from inform`tion provided by the police that Mr Molk | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
air had accessed the voice lails of other people other than roy`l | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
employees. It was not known how many. Compare that with the EE mile | :58:09. | :58:15. | |
in September. She does not tell my right honourable friend frol Maldon | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
that she herself received the information from a police source. | :58:21. | :58:26. | |
And the final sentence appe`rs to be a complete untruth. The e-m`il sides | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
to 110 victims. A very prechse number. Was that a number m`de up? | :58:32. | :58:41. | |
It contradicts the central `ssertion the sienna Miller case was Rebekah | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
Brooks' moment of epiphany hn her knowledge and the severity four | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
years later. It merits closdr analysis compared with the other | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
replies Rebekah Brooks gave us than is evident from the privileges | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
committee report. On all thdse grounds therefore, I do belheve the | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
committee is wrong to be un`ble to draw the conclusion that News | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
International Miss led us and it is premature in not considering its | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
committed contempt. In conclusion, as far as Parliamentary privilege is | :59:17. | :59:19. | |
concerned, what is important is what happens in the future. The committee | :59:20. | :59:28. | |
is right to note the work the joint committees note that this h`s not | :59:29. | :59:40. | |
been taken forward. We asked the Murdoch family to appear in front of | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
us because we knew they werd in the country, to apologise to thd family | :59:46. | :59:51. | |
of Millie Dowler. The uncertainty over the next step was, what if they | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
declined to come. We asked for advice on what the sanctions might | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
be in this day and age in mhsleading the select committee. We fotnd | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
behind the rhetoric, the Parliamentary Emperor appardntly had | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
no clothes and this situation needs urgently addressing. The qudstion is | :00:11. | :00:20. | |
on the order paper. We now come to the backbench motion on the select | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
committee report on young pdople's mental health. Helen Hayes to move. | :00:26. | :00:33. | |
I beg to move this House has considered the motion as on the | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
order paper which concerns the report of the select committee on | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
young people's mental health on the government's response. I am grateful | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
to the backbench business committee for allocating time to this debate | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
which was supported by more than 50 members across the House and to the | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
honourable member from South Cambridgeshire was sponsoring it. I | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
want to pay tribute to the lany health professionals and voluntary | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
sector organisations who work in mental health services for xoung | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
people. The teachers and te`ching assistants who support young people | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
with mental health difficulties in classrooms and the youth workers | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
seeking to support young people in many different ways. It is not a | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
debate about the commitment of those who work tirelessly to support our | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
young people. It is a debatd about the resources and the frame or with | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
which they are working which reflects our collective ability to | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
deliver the outcomes we need. The years select committee report was | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
published in 2015 and has a consequence of more than 90,000 | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
young people voting for mental health in the 2014 make your mark | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
ballot. It is an important piece of work because it is a report on | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
mental health by young people, about young people. Since I was elected, I | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
have been struck by how oftdn young people's mental health issuds have | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
been raised with me, whether by individual constituents, struggling | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
to access the support that they or their children need. Doctors in my | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
local accident Emergency departments, or teachers in schools, | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
the issue is raised frequently and no one thinks the current shtuation | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
is close to being acceptabld. I would like to pay tribute to the | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
youth select committee for the excellent rigorous support `nd clear | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
recommendations which fall hnto three areas. Funding and thd state | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
of services, a role for education and awareness, stigma and dhgital | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
culture. The report concludds mental health services are significantly | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
under ported and young people's mental health services, even more | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
so. If the challenge is unprecedented. The report hhghlights | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
significant problems in accdssing services, particularly in rdlation | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
to first contact through GPs. It raises the urgent need for dvery | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
young person in the UK to ldave school with a good understanding and | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
awareness of mental health, empowered and equipped to look after | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
their own mental health. I will give way.. Thank you. Some of thd issues | :03:07. | :03:16. | |
on access could equally apply to adult services so there is ` cross | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
between the two areas? I th`nk my honourable friend for his | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
intervention. He is right to say that while we are discussing this | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
today, many of the same isstes apply to mental health services across the | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
board for all members of our communities. The government | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
published a response in Jantary 20 16. The response was, on thd whole, | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
disappointing. They referred mainly to work the government was `lready | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
doing, rather than the additional work the government and othdr | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
agencies clearly need to do. Most disappointing of all, a rejdcted the | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
key recommendation that statutory levels of attainment in mental | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
health education should be introduced for all young people I | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
welcome the government has `nnounced some additional funding, but I | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
remain very concerned about the current state of mental health | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
services for young people and the resorts in love those services. I | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
want to focus on the current state of services what I believe to be a | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
crisis which is growing and not diminishing and demands a rdsponse | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
which is more bold and comprehensive than that of which the government is | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
taking. I will return to thd conclusions of the youth select | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
committee report. One in fotr of us will experience mental ill-health in | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
any given year. That means lental health is something which affects | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
every of us. All others havd a friend or family member who has | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
mental ill-health and many will experience it ourselves. In my life | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
I have no close friends and family members who have suffered from | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
severe anxiety that impacted on their daily lives, clinical | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
depression and eating disorders There are few worse feelings than | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
the worry for a loved one who seems unreachable in the pit of | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
depression, except the worrx when that loved one is a child. @ll any | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
of us once for our children and the young people we represent, hs that | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
they grow up happy, healthy and resilient to the stresses and | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
strains of our world. Watchhng a child struggle with clinical | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
depression, severe anxiety or an eating disorder is devastathng. | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
According to NHS statistics, one Intel children have a diagnosable | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
mental health condition. Th`t is around three students in a typical | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
classroom. Many more young people don't get diagnosed but expdrience a | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
period of mental ill health or distress during their childhood or | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
adolescence. The government's own measures found almost one in four | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
children showed some evidence of mental health. Half of ment`l health | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
problems are established by the age of 14 and three quarters by the age | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
of 24. Suicide is the most common cause of death for boys aged between | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
five and 19 and the second lost common for girls after that age | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
after traffic accidents. A recent survey found 69% of girls aged seven | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
to 21 feel they are not good enough and it's thought around one in eight | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
young people self harm betwden the ages of 11 and 16. I will ghve way. | :06:23. | :06:31. | |
I know she also has concerndd members in this place have hssues | :06:32. | :06:40. | |
with serious youth violence. The she agree that mental ill-health is a | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
trigger in gang and youth vholence and it deserves a concentrated focus | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
from within the health servhce and government. There is very good | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
practice out there, but it hs not widely available to help de`l with | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
this problem? I thank my honourable friend for her intervention. It is | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
an important point and it affects both of our constituencies, to a | :07:04. | :07:14. | |
significant degree. Yet, only 0 7% of NHS funding is spent on xoung | :07:15. | :07:22. | |
people's mental health. The Royal College of psychiatry also reports | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
additional funding the government has committed is not getting to the | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
front line. Responses to a recent freedom of information requdst from | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
the member for Liverpool wax the tree, revealed that although the | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
Secretary of State made a commitment the proportion of funding should be | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
increasing everywhere this xear and this is desperately needed. 57 of | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
the country's clinical commhssioning groups are reducing the proportion | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
of funding for mental health services. Young minds reports that | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
three quarters of young people with mental health problems may not get | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
access to the treatment thex need. Services are an average is turning | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
away nearly a quarter of chhldren referred to them for treatmdnt by | :08:04. | :08:11. | |
concerned parents, GPs, teachers and others. This is supported bx a | :08:12. | :08:19. | |
report saying many reported difficult reporting students onto | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
health services in times of crisis, with 61% of respondents reporting | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
their relationship as a college with local mental health services, is | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
only fair, not very good or nonexistent. The thresholds for | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
support are going up precisdly a time when at a time when deland is | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
increasing. This can create a ticking time bomb of mental ill | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
health for the future. The `verage waiting times for all providers for | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
six months for a first appohntment and almost ten months beford the | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
start of treatment. An investigation recently found three in fivd | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
referrals from GPs are being batted back to primary care without any | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
access to specialist support. When early intervention is not available, | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
it is very often schools and colleges which ends up dealhng with | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
the consequences and they are under resourced to do so. A recent survey | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
found that only a third prilary schools have access to a | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
school-based councillor and those who do have access, 59% havd a | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
councillor on the school for one day a week or less. I will give way Can | :09:25. | :09:33. | |
I commend the honourable melber for calling this debate on this | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
important subject. It often comes up in my constituency. And the point | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
she's making about school struggling to find support is something I have | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
experienced in my constituency. I want to reiterate the point primary | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
schools know they have children and secondary schools, who can benefit | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
from specialist support and it is very hard for them to access it I | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
thank the honourable member for her intervention. Well we focus on | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
prevention and early intervdntion, we need to think of early | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
intervention in terms of agd, as well as stage of mental ill health. | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
As a consequence of the lack of early intervention support, the | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
number of young people attending A because of a psychiatric condition | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
has more than doubled. I have spoken to many doctors who tell me that | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
when this happens and an unwell person presents at A needhng a | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
CAMS inpatient bed, they frdquently wait days for a bed to be identified | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
and then often that bed is hundreds of miles away from home. Ond south | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
London hospital has provided me with data that shows a 37% year-on-year | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
increase in the number of under 16 is being seen at A with a mental | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
health condition. And an increase in the number of children being | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
committed to an bed. I will give way. Would she agree with md, there | :10:56. | :11:05. | |
is a shortage of beds, but one of the issues, particularly in cities | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
like London is core polity housing. Where individuals could havd been | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
treated at home, because of the lack of proper housing, that tre`tment | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
cannot be delivered in the community? I thank him for that | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
intervention. He is right to say there are multiple different causes | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
and contributed factors to lental health, but also multiple | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
contributory factors which present obstacles to addressing and | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
providing treatment people need where they need it and houshng is | :11:36. | :11:36. | |
one of them. And 69 people from south London | :11:37. | :11:49. | |
where unable to receive pathent care in south London. Of these 44% out of | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
London for their care. This issue of seriously ill young people being | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
sent a long distance from home to access patient care needs to stop. | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
It is distressing fraud -- for families and stops young people | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
receiving the maximum support from family and friends to recovdr. When | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
they are admitted to a unit, offer the service is not what it should | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
be. The Care Quality Commission found 62% of units were inadequate | :12:21. | :12:28. | |
or required improvements. A goal of parity of esteem for mental health | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
was introduced into the sochal care act by an amendment of Labotr | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
appears and was a landmark. We only need to think of this for a moment | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
what our response would be hf the statistics for young people's mental | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
health to our physical condhtion would realise how far we ard from | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
parity being realised. If 74% of people with a bacterial infdction | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
struggled to get access to ` treatment or almost a quartdr of | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
referrals for cataracts werd turned away or of people with a chdst | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
infection were forced to waht until they had pneumonia before hdlp was | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
provided or those with a broken leg would be forced to be four days for | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
treatment, it would be a national scandal. The state of mental health | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
said this, especially for young people is a scandal. It just is not | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
being recognised as such officially. Words alone cannot achieve parity of | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
esteem, the government must start to act differently. What is necessary | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
to transform mental health services for our young people? I want to | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
return to the conclusions of the youth Select Committee report. The | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
Royal College of Psychiatrists highlights three issues. Ond, | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
increase funding for young people's mental health funding to gu`rantee | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
the money will reach the ground for CAMHS. That is concern about the | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
introduction of sustainabilhty and transformation plans across the NHS | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
and resource implications. The Royal College of Psychiatrists suggest the | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
introduction of ring fenced funding for CAMHS and reject plans which do | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
children's mental health pl`ns in children's mental health pl`ns in | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
their area. I hope ministers will commit to that today. Secondly, | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
young people must be involvdd in the process of formulating policy to | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
improve CAMHS. Research shows where young people have a clear voice in | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
design, the end result refldcts a clear need of the patient. That | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
government must improve mental health education in schools with the | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
aim of ensuring young peopld leave schools with an understanding of | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
mental health and how to help their own well-being. This recommdndation | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
was made by the youth Select Committee and supported by the | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
National Association of head teachers and other teaching unions, | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
United Nations and many othdrs. While the government has introduced | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
new plans for the curriculul, that is broad consensus across hdalth and | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
education sectors that developing resilience, safeguarding yotng | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
people, should not be left to chance. It should be a comptlsory | :15:21. | :15:27. | |
part of the curriculum. I hope the government will reflect on the | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
urgency of the situation and the consensus around the need for | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
compulsory education and will make a commitment to introduce it. The | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
Youth Select Committee report made many other practical | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
recommendations, including regional commissioning, the developmdnt of | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
health and support, the introduction of plans to support students through | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
exam stress, I would welcomd an update from the Minister on the | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
progress being made to deliver these excellent ideas. Finally, wd know | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
one of the greatest barriers to delivering mental health support and | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
services that our young people need has always been the stigma which | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
surrounds mental health. I want to be a tribute to a brilliant piece of | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
work recently published by the YMCA in partnership with the NHS, cold I | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
am old, the research identifies the extent of the stigma of mental | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
health, including three quarters of young people spoken to the leaving | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
people with mental health problems are treated negatively. The project | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
sought to address stigma directly by publishing a series of storhes about | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
young people with their expdriences of mental health difficulty. It made | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
for a very challenging readhng. I want to read a quote from the four | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
words of the documents from corny comic aged 22. Having mental health | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
difficulties is like being trapped inside 1000 invisible prisons, there | :16:58. | :17:05. | |
are 1000 reasons as a young person being driven deeper into thd void. | :17:06. | :17:07. | |
Not only isolated by the struggle is mentally but by that enveloped in a | :17:08. | :17:09. | |
thick darkness, it is comprhsed of a thick darkness, it is comprhsed of a | :17:10. | :17:19. | |
tangled web of myths, misunderstandings, this is | :17:20. | :17:21. | |
misunderstanding. It is timd for them it is to be dispelled, the Web | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
broken and the isolation to end It is time for us to be free to talk | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
about our mental health difficulties or pulling so we get access to me | :17:30. | :17:37. | |
need. Once conversation beghns, you break down misconceptions pdople | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
hold. It is like being stood in the dark, untangling the web until the | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
warmth of the Sun breaks through. The light reaches your eyes and you | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
look around to say that you are not alone. When we talk about young | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
talking about the well-being of our talking about the well-being of our | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
precious children, their he`lth and happiness, the resilience of the | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
next generation, the abilitx of young people to fulfil their | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
potential and to be everythhng they can be. We are talking about the | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
ways to stop more families from living with the heartbreak of the | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
young person with mental ill-health and ways to stop more familhes from | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
softening the devastation of our loss to suicide. There are few | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
things more important than this and it is time the government got it | :18:26. | :18:33. | |
right. I beg to move. Here here The question is as on the order paper. | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
Thank you. The report brought to my attention by my local member of the | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
youth Parliament who has bedn in the chamber for the youth Parli`ment | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
debates and Lucy is in the public gallery to listen to the debate and | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
has assisted me in formulathng my remarks today. As a result of | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
contact with Lucy, I attenddd the Westminster Hall debate | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
through administrative error I was through administrative error I was | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
unable to be heard. I thank the honourable lady for bringing this to | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
the chamber today. Before I go to the subject, I would thank the | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
honourable lady and the backbench kit -- back bends business | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
committee. As we all try to engage with young people more and lore it | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
is important that the efforts of the youth Parliament get acknowledged | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
and debated in here. As the former member of Lucy tells me, whdn they | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
were looking for subjects for the youth Parliament, many times mental | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
health is in the top 56 subjects that concern young people so it is | :19:48. | :19:55. | |
important it is brought forward -- top five or six. The report is | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
thorough. It makes several recommendations and conclushons as | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
highlighted already. To get a better understanding of the issues facing | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
young people in a modern agd that can lead to the mental health issues | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
as out in the report. It is a long time since I was a young person | :20:15. | :20:23. | |
Thank you. So I thought the best way to come to an understanding, the | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
report actually says we shotld make use of the expertise of young people | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
which is item 17 in the report so I decided to do this. I had a | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
conversation with Lucy and `lso another 17-year-old young l`dy and | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
ask them to tell me what thdir thoughts and experiences whdre as | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
teenagers. And the pressures they face and the pressures for their | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
young friends in this modern world. Both girls at A-level polithcs | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
students. Lucy is from my constituency and Martha livds in | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
Surrey. My remarks today ard very much based on the conversathons that | :21:08. | :21:08. | |
we have had. Mental health hssues in we have had. Mental health hssues in | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
any person of any age are often difficult to diagnose as has been | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
highlighted. It is not like a broken leg you conceive. It is not as | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
tangible. It can often be mhstaken for a bit of temporary emothonal | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
upheaval or distress but in the young it can be put down to other | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
things, pure teenage banks, raging hormones or just teenage moodiness. | :21:37. | :21:44. | |
Consequently, these issues go unspotted and unnoticed and | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
consequently untreated. By the time it is acknowledged and realhsed the | :21:48. | :21:56. | |
problem has manifested so mtch it is harder to treat. Who should identify | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
this programme -- this problem? It would be an adult, a parent, | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
guardian or teacher. Becausd of that that is a generational gap. I'm sure | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
heard the life of a teenager, you do heard the life of a teenager, you do | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
not understand. But in this case, we actually do not understand `s | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
adults. So what should we look for? How do that manifested itself? There | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
are various symptoms which `re easy to miss. It could be anxietx, | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
depression, eating disorders or even contemplation of suicide or maybe | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
even self harm. Self harm c`n sometimes be seen as a cry for help | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
or attention but more often it is a symptom of a much deeper problem. | :22:47. | :22:54. | |
When can it? In days gone bx, pinch points for stress were usually exam | :22:55. | :23:02. | |
time. Made for all levels or final exams but in a modern world there | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
are so many pressures on yotng people which can bring about these | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
problems. How are things different to when they were young? Wh`t are | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
the extra factors and circulstances that we did not have to contend with | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
but the modern-day young persons -- the young teenager has to? Hf we | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
consider the question whethdr looking at the impact of social | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
media, we would be dedicating our duty. Whether it be Facebook, | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
Twitter, Snapchat or many more in this chamber we have not he`rd of. A | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
few years ago these things were a figment of imagination, there were | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
science-fiction in my day btt now they are part of everyday lhfe and | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
that the modern teenager, they are the preferred method of | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
communication. These technologies have much to commend them and I d | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
think -- advantages to all of those, I am sure many of us to eat and have | :24:01. | :24:08. | |
Facebook pages and websites. Many of us communicate via e-mail whth our | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
constituents to make us mord accessible than ever and thhs is | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
good. So is communication bdtween young people. The days, and I will | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
betray my age, of sending notes to betray my age, of sending notes to | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
the object of your affection in the classroom with SWT LK writtdn on the | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
back of the envelope. Marth` and Katie -- Martha and Lucy did not | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
know what this was. Those d`ys are long gone. Everything is done via | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
social media. It is out in the open for everyone to see and it hs | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
therefore ever. The letter hs read and is not reciprocated, thrown | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
away. In social media it relain so ever. It brings with it pressures, | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
relationships, appearance, fashion and style are all analysed hn the | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
public career. Relationships, attitudes and opinions when she | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
privately with friends are out for the world to see. It is seelingly | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
solicits a further comment `nd responds and it grows on thd basis | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
of that. Things like chat groups on WhatsApp, it is easy for verbal | :25:25. | :25:34. | |
teasing to become sinister. We here increasingly stories of cybdr | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
bullying. And the posting of revenge pictures. I am sure we have all | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
received comments online whhch we have seen as upsetting. If xou are | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
teenager, uncertain and vulnerable, lacking in confidence, such remarks | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
can have a shattering effect on your self-confidence and mental state. We | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
look at media in general, it seeks to prevent -- present all young | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
people as perfectly formed human beings. Reality programmes placed | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
pressure on everyone to be absolutely perfect. The slightest | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
imperfection can become a m`jor issue. We here about body ilage and | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
young people's attitude to ht, again the desire to be perfect -- to be | :26:22. | :26:30. | |
perfect. Imperfection is ridiculed and this is amplified with social | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
media. Likes and no one likds and comments can become very crtel, | :26:36. | :26:42. | |
especially if you are teenager and are vulnerable. Again it can damage | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
the self esteem and mental health of a young person. | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
We look at the society, mobhle phones, clothes and computers. | :26:52. | :27:00. | |
Anything less than the optilum is seen as a problem. And the pressure | :27:01. | :27:07. | |
it puts on young people. I `m not saying if a person doesn't have the | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
latest iPhone, it will lead to mental health problems, but if | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
someone is vulnerable with low esteem, these are the things that | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
can exploit those insecurithes to an extent they can be pushed into a | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
territory which we are disctssing today. Madam Deputy Speaker, we need | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
to remember all these presstres and I have only mentioned a few, all | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
impact young people at the time when the minds, brains and characters are | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
still growing and forming. @s we get older we form our minds and | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
personalities, we developed our own resilience to the many of these | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
outside pressures. I am grateful and I think he is making a perthnent | :27:48. | :27:54. | |
case and is giving a very accurate analysis of the pressures on our | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
teenagers. Doesn't he agree with me, it is important there is an | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
integrated solution that involves education and NHS response, so | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
schools can get in very early in terms of tackling some of the | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
behaviours that lead to somd of these poor outcomes with mental | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
health? He is right, and th`t is remarked in the report, in the | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
conclusion about the school approach and it says when people leave | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
school, they should be convdrsant with all the issues around lental | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
health. The honourable lady also referred to that in her spedch. As | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
we get older we develop our own resilience. In young people, we have | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
a situation where that development isn't complete and that is where the | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
schools should play a part hn helping to develop that reshlience. | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
As we know, there is a stigla attached to mental health, `nd more | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
so in the case of young people. They don't want to admit it for the fear | :28:53. | :29:00. | |
of being labelled. Again, this also leads to a situation of potdntial, I | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
have used the word denial, H'm not sure that is right, but it | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
exacerbates the problem. Thdre is a lack of willingness and fear to say, | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
I have a problem and I need help. There should mean no stigma attached | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
to any young people admitting they are struggling and they havd certain | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
issues they need to deal with. Neither should there be any barrier | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
for parents to make a simil`r plea. There should be somewhere young | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
person can go, a point wherd a young person can go without fear of | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
ridicule or anything else, where they can go and ask for help. They | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
should not be judged or labdls, either by their peers or society. | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
Parents can be the strongest help and support for any young pdrson and | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
we can look at family support units as well. We should be able to enable | :29:51. | :29:57. | |
parents to play as fall apart as they can. I can envisage a situation | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
where we have a person getthng help at the age of 15. When they turn 16, | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
they are deemed as an adult and their parents are almost excluded | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
are playing a full part in that because at 16 they are able to make | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
their own decisions and the parent who is attentive and trying to help | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
will be told, we cannot discuss it with you. We should look if there is | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
a way around that. In concltsion, I would like to thank people for their | :30:28. | :30:36. | |
help. They have given me an insight into the world of a modern, | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
21st-century teenager. Things that impact on their lives, but did not | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
impact on my life as a teen`ger It was an educational experience for me | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
and I pay tribute for their candour and their honesty. As I havd already | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
said, to talk about this thhng freely takes a lot and I pax tribute | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
to them. Many of the remarks have come as a result of their | :31:01. | :31:08. | |
contribution. I would say to the Minister, let us not, in anx way | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
fall into the trap of dismissing mental health issues in the young | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
Azmi growing pains. It is a serious matter. I know she understands, but | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
to make the help is needed, not only does it need to be readily | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
available, easily available, but available for as long as it is | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
needed for each person according to their individual needs. I w`nt to | :31:29. | :31:38. | |
congratulate my honourable friend, and the member from South | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
Cambridgeshire for securing this debate. I also want to congratulate | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
the clearly, very talented xouth select committee for produchng such | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
an excellent report. It highlights the need for additional and better | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
mental health services for xoung people. It is a job very well done. | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
For too long, those suffering from mental ill-health have recehved far | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
less care and attention frol those suffering from physical aillents. | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
Even though mental ill-health accounts for 28% of the tot`l burden | :32:12. | :32:18. | |
of disease, it gets just 13$ of the NHS budget. One in four adults are | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
diagnosed with a mental illness at some point in their lives. But only | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
a quarter of them who need lental health services have access to them. | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
Serious medical conditions `re going untreated and that is the dhsparity | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
of esteem between physical `nd mental health for everybody. The | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
government, health professionals, patients, the voluntary sector, | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
everybody speaks of wishing to end. There is such a long way to go. The | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
consequences of our neglect of mental health services are | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
devastating. Over a third of people with mild mental health problems and | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
almost two thirds of people with more severe mental health problems | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
are in fact unemployed. Resdarch shows the vast majority wishes to | :33:07. | :33:16. | |
work. Indeed, congratulate the select committee for this rdport as | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
well. My honourable friend hs making an important point about thd number | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
of those unemployed with mental health issues. I have been struck by | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
the message from schools, one school in my constituency said thex are | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
faring 14% of their pupils for mental health support. Does she | :33:39. | :33:41. | |
agree with me, the early intervention is vital and also to | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
recognise the work of members of the youth Parliament for raising these | :33:47. | :33:54. | |
important issues with others? I totally agree with my honourable | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
friend. As I go through my speech, I hope I can give an example that will | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
show intervention for a verx, very young child is important because of | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
the impact on the rest of the family. In early intervention can do | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
a lot to mitigate against events and other difficulties occurring in the | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
family with other family melbers. Unfortunately, tragically and | :34:20. | :34:26. | |
outrageously, young person's mental health services receives less | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
attention than adult servicds. Consequently, it has been c`lled the | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
Cinderella of Cinderella services. In November 2014, the Health Select | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
Committee found there were serious and deeply ingrained problels with | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
the commissioning and provision of services for young people's mental | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
health. Many providers reported increased waiting times and | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
increased referral thresholds for specialist services, where patients | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
would have to show severe sxmptoms to receive treatment, than they | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
would have done in the past. GPs reported feeling ill equippdd and | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
lacking in confidence when dealing with young people's mental health | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
issues. The select committed found early intervention programmds were | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
suffering from insecure or short-term funding or being cut | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
altogether. There really is no excuse for this failing. People with | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
lifetime mental health problems experienced symptoms by the age of | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
14. And about 75% before thd age of 18. Catching these problems early | :35:33. | :35:39. | |
could well lessen the severhty of adult problems, possibly saving the | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
NHS and money in the long tdrm. I would suggest simply, more | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
importantly, it will reduce unnecessary suffering and enable | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
people to live better lives. I want to be fair to the governments, they | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
have recognised there is a problem. They set up their children `nd young | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
people's mental health and well-being task force in 2004. And | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
that task force came back whth a number of recommendations in their | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
2015 future in mind report. The task force found a number of problems | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
with our services and the mdmber for North Norfolk, who was then the | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
responsible minister said, there needed to be a fundamental shift in | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
culture, with a much greater focus on prevention and early | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
intervention. The task forcd rightly recognise, one of the challdnges | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
facing young people was unsurprisingly funding. I w`s | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
pleased the government responded by announcing an additional ?1.4 | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
billion of transitional funding for youth mental health services. | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
However, this additional money needs to be considered in the context of | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
the less encouraging overall picture of mental health services ftnding. | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
NHS England's planning guid`nce states all CCG is a must increase | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
their spend on mental health services by at least as much as | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
their overall budget increase. But there have been warnings. Including | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
from the mental health trusts that mental health funding is not | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
properly ring fenced. And this target is being missed. Agahn, to | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
follow in the steps of my honourable friend from Dulwich and West | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
Norfolk, we know a series of requests by the member for Liverpool | :37:33. | :37:43. | |
way victory has shown us ovdr half of CGCs will spend more of their | :37:44. | :37:52. | |
budget in 2016, 2017 which demonstrates what the government has | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
tried to do has failed. Thehr target is being missed. I will indded. The | :37:58. | :38:04. | |
honourable lady is making some important points and she referred to | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
the tax force future in mind report. One of the startling figures was | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
between 25 and 35% of young people with diagnosable mental health | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
problems access support. Dods this underline the need for bettdr | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
training for teachers and GPs for early detection as well as darly | :38:27. | :38:34. | |
intervention? We need early detection and also we need darly | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
intervention but we need solebody to refer people to. There doesn't seem | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
to be the funding at any pohnt in that journey for young people who | :38:43. | :38:49. | |
are needing help, whether it is awareness, intervention or services. | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
But Madam Deputy Speaker, I went looking into the good work done by | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
my the London Borough of Newham which even in these difficult times | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
is increasing its mental he`lth spend in absolute and in relative | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
terms. And where children's mental health services have receivdd an | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
outstanding report from the care and quality commission. I wanted to see | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
how we can improve young people s mental health provision and I wanted | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
to learn what challenges and outstanding local provider still | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
faces in their fight for better services. Professionals in new | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
recognise a good young people's mental health service is not just | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
about helping those who havd already developed severe and serious | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
conditions. But it is also `bout providing early intervention and | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
preventative programmes so problems can be dealt with at source. Would | :39:48. | :39:58. | |
she also agree it is very ilportant the services look at the nedds of | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
parents, I was struck by a recent case where the parents just didn't | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
understand where the issues had come from and couldn't help and hdentify | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
what they were. They felt unable to identify how best to help their | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
child. She is right, the falily can often be key to both the support the | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
young person needs, but also perhaps needs intervention itself in order | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
to provide the support the whole family needs in order to live | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
mentally healthily into day's.. Today. To go on to that, thd | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
National Lottery funded programme in new is called the head start scheme | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
and it helps ten to 16-year,olds who are particularly in schools. It | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
trains teachers in secondarx schools to provide programmes which build | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
resilience amongst pupils. Ht provides mentoring schemes directly | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
to children so they can learn from each other. It is a peer to peer | :41:01. | :41:10. | |
learning scheme. In addition, it works directly with parents to show | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
them how they can help work through mental health issues with their | :41:17. | :41:18. | |
children and in their familx circumstances. Unfortunatelx, the | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
scheme is reliant upon lottdry money and therefore it is not cord funded, | :41:25. | :41:31. | |
which means its future as a core service simply cannot be gu`ranteed | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
and in these circumstances, sometimes it is difficult to get the | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
proof we need in order to bd able to persuade funders and persuade the | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
government that this core ftnding should continue. Because often it | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
over a small timescale, it's not big enough to be persuasive. | :41:52. | :42:00. | |
The and is in and more integrated because they know makes a dhfference | :42:01. | :42:08. | |
to the lives of people. Takd Emma and her baby brother aged jtst seven | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
weeks. They were referred bx a perinatal psychiatrist who was | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
seeing their mother for help with chronic mental ill health. Dmma was | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
still frequently breast-fed and showed an insecure attachment to her | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
mother. She was anxious -- who's anxious and controlling beh`viour | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
was making it difficult for her mother to wean hard and attdnd to | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
the needs of her new baby who was being bottle fed. Emma's spdech was | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
also delayed. Following assdssment the family were offered | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
psychotherapy to allow them to reflect on the needs of both people | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
which allowed Emma to becomd independent of her mum. At the same | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
time the baby was able to gdt more attention from his mum. I al pleased | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
to tell you that following this intervention, Emma is now more | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
confident, her speech is developing and she sleeps in her own room and | :43:13. | :43:19. | |
has settled well into nursery. Our physical and mental health this is | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
work in tandem to improve your lives. Jane was a 17-year-old who | :43:23. | :43:30. | |
had been arrested and chargdd with possession of a weapon and `s C He | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
had a history of violence and non-engagement. During the course of | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
his referral to a youth offdnding team, they became concerned about | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
his mental health and referred him directly to the mental health | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
specialist foreign argent examination. During the assdssment, | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
he was having suicidal thoughts He was anxious and showed severe | :44:00. | :44:07. | |
symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder and ADHD. The team nurse | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
arranged for him to have urgent psychiatric treatment and hd was | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
started on medication for hhs anxiety and on a course of | :44:17. | :44:22. | |
collective behaviour therapx for his ADHD. He was assessed for ADHD in | :44:23. | :44:30. | |
the long term once abate. I am pleased to report that he h`s not | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
offended since he has engagdd with the mental health team offered | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
through the young offenders team. It just shows that integrated services | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
are better for individuals `nd better for the whole communhty. | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
These are just a few of the stories that I have been told but I think | :44:49. | :44:55. | |
they are enormous challenges at providing community-based and | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
integrated services. I am told that new would love to run services | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
directly out of GP practices but cannot do at the moment bec`use they | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
do not have resources. It would not be efficient currently becatse staff | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
would spend as much time tr`velling backwards and forwards to GP | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
practices as they would helping patients. There is an | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
acknowledgement between health prevention -- professionals that | :45:22. | :45:28. | |
early intervention often increases workload in the short-term. | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
Professionals in Newham are worried that they will not be able to | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
deliver the clinical hours necessary to more patients. Over 50% of | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
patients in Newham already have to wait over five weeks before seeing a | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
specialist, a number of which will only go up when further casds are | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
uncovered without additional resources. Adam Deputy Speaker, | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
there are well integrated community-based mental health this | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
is delivered in Newham and `cross the country but to preserve and | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
expand these programmes, we need to be aware that they need stable and | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
long-term funding. To ensurd that money designed for mental hdalth was | :46:13. | :46:14. | |
finds its way to the front line would be a good way to start. Thank | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
you. Thank you. Can I declare my entry into the register of lembers | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
interests. I apologise for lissing a few minutes of the honourable lady's | :46:27. | :46:33. | |
speech. It had been brought forward. Can I say I am delighted we are | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
having this debate for two lain reasons, reasons which you will all | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
share I am sure. Firstly because this is a really important subject. | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
and it is a subject which it is and it is a subject which it is | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
right and proper and beneficial that this House and honourable mdmbers | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
are talking about openly. Jtst as we have heard, young people ard | :47:01. | :47:02. | |
prepared much more now than they were before to come forward with | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
their own stories about problems and issues and hopefully find solutions. | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
Secondly, I am delighted to be part of this debate because it is part of | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
the United Kingdom Youth Parliament work. It is really signific`nt that | :47:19. | :47:25. | |
we are giving up mainstream Parliamentary time in the m`in | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
chamber of the House of Comlons to discuss a report by the youth Select | :47:31. | :47:38. | |
Committee. It is a shame we have to do it in backbench business time | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
rather than in government thme, I pay tribute to the honourable lady | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
for securing this debate and giving an excellent start to it. This will | :47:47. | :47:53. | |
be a high-quality debate. I and you I think shared the view that the | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
Youth Select Committee has taken on such a status and stature now, | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
producing reports of such hhgh quality and well researched that not | :48:04. | :48:06. | |
only should the government produced a formal response to them, which | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
has, but the government shotld give up government time in this chamber | :48:12. | :48:13. | |
on an annual basis, just once a year on an annual basis, just once a year | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
formally to debate the work of Youth Select Committee. That is an idea I | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
have put forward for some thme and I have put forward for some thme and I | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
hope the whips and government managers are listening. I al a big | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
supporter of Youth Select Committee. It was founded in my time in | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
Parliament, the annual Parlhamentary sittings which I try to attdnd are | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
always a great spectacle to come to. It is always exceedingly frtstrating | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
on the Monday and the Speakdr will on the Monday and the Speakdr will | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
inevitably say, why do you not believe as well as Youth Select | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
Committee members who were xou on Friday, very smart, very concise, | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
very well-behaved and do not heckle. It is a shame the media covdrage of | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
that is not greater than it is. It is a great event and organisation | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
and it is great we are disctssing their work today. We have produced | :49:19. | :49:26. | |
positive youth document and it was all about promoting positivd youth | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
engagement. One thing I tre`sure having done was helping the | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
transition from Youth Select transition from Youth Select | :49:34. | :49:35. | |
Committee across to the youth council to secure its futurd. I pay | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
tribute to all the work which has happened over the last few xears. | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
They are mainstream part of the youth voice in this country and in | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
this chamber. I was the first witness ever to be called in front | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
of Youth Select Committee. Ht was an of Youth Select Committee. Ht was an | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
awesome and intimidating experience. I was called for their first report | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
back in 2012 along with the Transport Minister, Norman Baker. We | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
rather to nonchalantly rockdd up in front of this group of young people | :50:09. | :50:15. | |
in the Boothroyd room. They were exceedingly well rehearsed. They | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
were exceedingly well researched and not taking any BS from anybody. I in | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
front of many select committees on many occasions and that was the most | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
intimidating experience I ever had as a minister in front of a Select | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
Committee and it was fantastic. That is why their fourth report | :50:40. | :50:42. | |
absolutely needs to be taken seriously, along with their work. | :50:43. | :50:49. | |
This report is difficult to distinguish from the House of | :50:50. | :50:51. | |
Commons Select Committee report that many of us are involved with. I want | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
to congratulate the team for the work they did on it. They dhd | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
everything they should have done, visits to experts, visits to | :51:02. | :51:09. | |
sufferers of mental illness, expert witnesses and they had no fdwer than | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
148 submissions. If only all other select committees had as many well | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
informed and well researched submissions as they did. Also, they | :51:20. | :51:26. | |
have a substantial democrathc endorsement. In 2014, when they were | :51:27. | :51:34. | |
deciding for the subject of the Youth Select Committee report, then | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
make your mark ballot which includes the debate in this House and setting | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
their priorities, no fewer than 875,000 young people from up and | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
down the country actually bothered to turn out and vote. More than | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
90,000 voted for the subject of mental health was the switch is why | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
we are hear to debate this report. It was debated in this chamber, that | :52:01. | :52:08. | |
is a huge democratic mandatd. I host an event once a year in the House of | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
Commons to present democracx reports for schools in West Sussex, | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
including my constituency schools which have achieved high turnovers | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
in elections they hold everx February and each year the turnout | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
gets higher. A bigger room has to be put to accommodate more. Thdy got a | :52:31. | :52:39. | |
100% turnout from all their pupils turning out to vote for thehr | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
members which is fantastic. So this is a chunky piece of evidence that | :52:46. | :52:52. | |
needs to be appreciated and looked at and importantly, acted upon so I | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
am delighted we are giving time to it today. I am pleased also the | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
government produced a formal response to it, jointly by the | :53:03. | :53:13. | |
ministers at the Department of Health and the Member for E`st | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
Surrey representing the education department. Neither of thosd | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
ministers are apparently in that place and I welcome my honotrable | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
friend from Oxfordshire to that you position and I'm sure she whll pick | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
up the ropes of this very qtickly. We do need consistency in approach | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
dealing with mental health `nd we need a much better joined up | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
approach, not just between dducation and health but many other aspects as | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
well. Madame Deputy Speaker, the subject is very important to young | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
people. This report is very important to young people and should | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
therefore be important to this House and to the work of the government | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
and I think many useful lessons must be learned from it. I am also very | :54:01. | :54:07. | |
frustrated, I speak as someone who has been in this House for 20 years, | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
I have been a shadow ministdr for mental health and for young people | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
for nine years, I currently cheer the all-party group for children and | :54:18. | :54:27. | |
a group which is all about perinatal and mental health. I have sden | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
mental health it is common goal I have seen the 2011 strategy with an | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
important statement about p`rity of esteem which we need to achheve I | :54:39. | :54:47. | |
saw the 2014, closing the g`p report with specific commitments to improve | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
the mental health care for children and young people. I saw the rolling | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
out talking therapies progr`mme in March 20 15. We had the mental | :54:56. | :55:03. | |
health task force, I saw lots of good work by the former minhster, | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
the Member for North East Bedfordshire in the health | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
Department. In particular in February this year the ment`l health | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
task force produced a report on mental health and locks of talk | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
about the importance of mental health and necessity to achheve | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
parity of esteem. As the honourable lady from West Ham said there is a | :55:28. | :55:34. | |
big disparity instead of thd parity which we must achieve. You only are | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
again. We are still hear and record numbers of children and young people | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
are still hear with mental health problems. I will give way. Does he | :55:44. | :55:54. | |
agree with me that the real problem is you can have reports on task | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
forces and recommendations but the real issue is that mental hdalth is | :55:59. | :56:05. | |
seen as a health Department issue whereas what we need is complete | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
cross government approach to this so that mental health and ment`l | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
well-being is on every single piece of policy development? He is right. | :56:16. | :56:23. | |
He is pre-empting something I'll -- a point I wish to make. As linisters | :56:24. | :56:31. | |
and former ministers, there is the complete illusion that is the three | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
Es joined up government. Johned up government does not happen hn | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
practice. You are cocaine -, cocooned in a department as a | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
minister. The dialogue you tsed to have, this huge wall comes between | :56:47. | :56:56. | |
you to try and get inter departmental action becomes really | :56:57. | :57:00. | |
frustrating. I set up the youth action group which consists of 10 | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
and six major children's ch`rities and six major children's ch`rities | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
cheered by the Princess first and Barnardo's and they came to us with | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
problems affecting young people often complex problems. | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
One was to do with housing benefit and education for children hn care. | :57:21. | :57:31. | |
It involved benefits which was the remit of the Department for Work and | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
Pensions and it involve children in care which was the remit of the | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
Department for Education. This was this vicious circle. But thd | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
committee was due to do, and it hasn't met for 15 months or so, we | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
had ministers and invariablx there will be six ministers, not just | :57:50. | :57:52. | |
civil servants from those departments with their officials. We | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
would get the relevant ministers to go away and solve problem. This | :57:58. | :58:04. | |
falls into that category whdre it is not just the remit of health or | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
education because there are so many implications and knock-on effects. | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
He is absolutely right the structure of government needs to be so much | :58:15. | :58:20. | |
better. That's why we need task force is that genuinely cut across | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
government departments. But they can only flourish, in my experidnce if | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
they have the direct engagelent of ministers at the top as well. One | :58:30. | :58:37. | |
welcome initiative in his own party was the appointment of a Cabinet | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
level Minister for mental hdalth. I think it has gone by the waxside, | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
but the principle was right to try and join up those departments at the | :58:48. | :58:55. | |
top table, which is important. If I could remind him, I am the Shadow | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
Cabinet minister for mental health, so it hasn't gone away from this | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
side of the House. I am delhghted and I didn't mean to underestimate | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
the contribution of the honourable lady. When it was the honourable | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
member for Liverpool way victory, she sat at the Cabinet tabld on | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
this. My hope that is still the case and I would like to see my own party | :59:19. | :59:24. | |
in government replicate that because it is such an important isste. | :59:25. | :59:31. | |
Despite all of that, as has been described, mental health relains a | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
syndrome of service of the National Health Service and as the rdport | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
itself describes it, CAMS and the mental health of children and young | :59:41. | :59:46. | |
people remains the Cinderella of the Cinderella service. This issue over | :59:47. | :59:52. | |
funding is important, because for all of those years where mental | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
health was a static or declhning portion of the overall national | :59:57. | :00:01. | |
health service budget. And we can have arguments about how much the | :00:02. | :00:05. | |
NHS budget has gone up or kdpt up with inflation, but all the time the | :00:06. | :00:11. | |
share of funding in mental health declines, that is a very cldar | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
message it is a second priority within the National Health Service. | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
And therein lies part of thd problem. We should treat it, and we | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
are making progress, I don't want to be too negative, as they do in other | :00:26. | :00:32. | |
countries. If you go into a hospital in Copenhagen Denmark, you go into | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
the main hospital and if yot have a problem with diabetes, you turn | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
left, if you have a mental health problem you turn right. Thex treated | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
with the same basis and that is how we need to treat it here. There have | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
been many great intentions by many ministers, but in practice `t the | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
sharp end on the ground, whdre our young constituents experience in | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
trying to access the mental health support they desperately nedd, it is | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
not happening. It is certainly not happening in a uniform way `cross | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
the whole country. As a restlt, one in four people in this country at | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
least are still suffering from a mental health problem. I have a | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
particular interest in currdnt Nato mental health and declare an | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
interest, I chaired the grotp for 1001 days. We now have seven clinics | :01:29. | :01:39. | |
across the country providing support to parents with newborn babhes. | :01:40. | :01:50. | |
About half of all cases of perinatal depression and anxiety go | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
undetected. Those which are detected failed to receive evidence ,based | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
forms of treatment. Really alarmingly, certainly at thd time of | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
the report the all-party group produced last year called btilding | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
Great Britons, just 3% of clinical commissioning groups in England have | :02:10. | :02:17. | |
a strategy for perinatal mental health services. It is a cost to the | :02:18. | :02:27. | |
NHS, a cost the NHS can dearly ill afford, and it is ?8.1 billhon for | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
each one year cohort of births in the United Kingdom, equivaldnt to | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
almost ?10,000 for every single berth in this country. Why hs this | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
relevant to young people? Ndarly three quarters of this cost relates | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
to the adverse impacts on the child rather than the mother. Followers of | :02:48. | :02:55. | |
attachment will understand `nd appreciate the strong links between | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
achieving a strong attachment between the child and the primary | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
carer and good nurturing from the earlier stages. And as we ptt it in | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
the report, from conception to gauge two when the synapses in thd brain | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
are developing at 40,000 a second and the brain, character and | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
development is absolutely bding formed. The earliest experidnces | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
shape the baby's brain development and have a lifelong impact on the | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
baby's emotional health. Thd research shows a direct link with | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
what happens to other during the perinatal period and a child in | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
later life. If you have a tdenager 15 or 16 suffering from somd form of | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
depression, there is somethhng like a 90% chance that his or her mother | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
suffered from perinatal depression. The link is that clear. It hs | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
absolutely false economy not to be helping out with mum at the early | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
age and dad, who plays a crtcial role in all of this as well. Getting | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
it right with parents and children early is crucial to the good mental | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
health of so many children `nd young people. Madam Deputy Speaker, this | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
is not rocket science, technically it is neuroscience, but frankly we | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
should be getting it better sooner than we are. Other factors have been | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
flagged up in this report. Ly honourable friend for High Peak in | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
particular went into many of these about the peer group pressure is on | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
our children and young people, as they... I have no children `ny more, | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
my youngest is over the age of 8, but we have been through many | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
teenage years, so I have sedn it first hand. You can't go out in the | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
morning without the latest hPhone, without checking your Facebook, | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
without tweeting what you are having for breakfast and putting a | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
photograph up of what you are having for breakfast. And that is just | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
after you have got up. The stresses to succeed in school and thd of | :05:03. | :05:10. | |
exams and testing are not conducive to the best of mental health unless | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
some support is there to help young people through all sorts of | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
challenges, which we never had in my day. And I guess it is even earlier. | :05:21. | :05:30. | |
Social media is a huge infltence on young people that was just not | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
around in our day, or your day Madam Deputy Speaker, either, I h`zard to | :05:36. | :05:36. | |
guess. I thank him for giving way. He makes, as always, import`nt | :05:37. | :05:55. | |
observations in these debatds. He and I were both at school together | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
and at time when children ldft school, they left their problems | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
behind. If they had bullying going on or anything like that. Btt one of | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
the challenges now is, any problems like that go the child beyond the | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
school gates to the home and also through the summer holiday hf they | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
are not careful. Does he agree there are further steps that should be | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
taken by a digital service providers to provide apps and protecthons to | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
help children in those diffhcult circumstances? I do agree and | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
believe it or not, my honourable friend is older than me and was in | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
the year above me at our school Although he has aged rather better | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
than me, he hasn't been in this House quite as long as I have! But | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
he's absolutely right the environment of the dynamics where | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
the stresses and strains were in those days and who you commtnicate | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
with as well. I had an example recently of where one of my | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
daughters, I won't name which one, basically put in her request for | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
supper by text message and she was in her bedroom to my wife and I in | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
the kitchen! So it is extraordinary and ironic... Software is off, | :07:14. | :07:26. | |
basically. Irony is, in a d`y where communicating has never been easier | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
by e-mail, by social media, communications between human beings | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
face-to-face have never been more rare and promote. And therehn lies | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
part of the problem. And particularly communications between | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
children and their parents do not come as readily. And the parents, as | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
much as the children are at fault. Why we cannot talk frankly `bout the | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
very real pressures and str`ins and stresses on our children. It may be | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
to do with grooming, it may be to do with sex matters, or drugs. But in | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
his day and my day perhaps, we did talk to our parents more or perhaps | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
other family members around us. I want to pick up a few points in the | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
report and I know other members want to speak. We have got to a position | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
where one in ten school-age children will have some form of ment`l | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
disorder. That is getting younger, 340,000, five to ten-year-olds have | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
some form of mental disorder. If it is not detected early and acted | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
upon, it just festers and so often gets worse. And too often, the only | :08:38. | :08:45. | |
immediate response, if you do access a clinician, is the chemical cosh of | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
drugs, which in too many cases are not appropriate for younger | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
children, as we are increashngly finding. Talking therapies `nd | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
others would be more appropriate at the earliest age, but when xou are | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
having to wait weeks and months for them, it is whether you wait longer | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
for the most appropriate thdrapy or you are given some form of | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
antidepressant drug in the short term. There is an issue which is | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
flagged up in the report about the transition from childhood to | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
adulthood. Nothing changes physically and mentally to xou when | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
you receive your 18th birthday card from your member of Parliamdnt on | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
your 18th birthday, for exalple The last thing you need if you `re going | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
to stresses and mental illndss as an 18-year-old is have a different | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
process and system that has to do with you because you have stddenly | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
become an adult and your condition has not changed. There is a | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
particular issue of children in care, where they have been leaving | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
care at the age of 16, forttnately now the new scheme that has been | :09:54. | :10:01. | |
brought in, gives a longer lead in time. Every child is differdnt and | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
children will be more resilhent to go into the big wide world than at | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
different ages. There is sole good examples in the report about the | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
best transition and practicd and Southampton hospital has an zero to | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
25 age range. It is a schemd called ready, steady go and every person is | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
treated differently and not everybody's go age will be the same. | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
Can I touch on a few things mentioned in the report. Thd | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
recommendations made around training for GPs. It is right certainly for | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
younger children, that GPs will be the first port of call with clinical | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
services. I think the trainhng of GPs dealing with younger people s | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
mental health problems in p`rticular are not good. I think a young person | :10:57. | :11:04. | |
who needs a lot of confidence to go along to see a GP with a parent or | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
whoever, there needs to be ` clear understanding on how to get the best | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
out of that child. So I think we need better guidance and as the | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
honourable lady mentioned e`rlier, young people should be in on the | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
genesis of the guidance as well The second recommendation is around | :11:22. | :11:38. | |
what happens in schools. Thd Association of head teachers was | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
quoted saying when children do not meet the thresholds, it is often | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
schools who become responsible and are often ill-equipped to do that. | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
-- when appearance. We are talking about three in a class size of 0 | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
who will suffer from some mdntal health problem and as the chief | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
medical officer herself says, three quarters of the moles set -, will | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
receive no treatment at all, that has an impact on the child `nd the | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
rest of the class. We need better training of teachers to better | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
identify those signs pointing to a mental illness, better awardness of | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
when they can signpost to gdt the treatment required and also to be | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
able to talk about it gener`lly in class. We can argue about whether it | :12:32. | :12:41. | |
should be a compulsory subjdct, whether it should be a form`l part | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
of the curriculum but it nedds to be done in an environment wherd young | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
people feel engaged and it hs not just another lesson but somdthing | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
they feel free to talk about openly and absorbed and learn from. Of | :12:55. | :13:04. | |
course. I thank him for givhng way. The proposal that mental he`lth | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
education should become compulsory is simply that its presence on the | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
curriculum is too important to leave to chance. I agree with him it needs | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
to be undertaken in practicd in a way which is engaging and does the | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
job and is therefore effecthve at educating young people but would he | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
agree that it should not be left to chance as to whether it happens at | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
all? She and I had the same objectives I am sure. I am `lways | :13:32. | :13:39. | |
sceptical about the solution for something being to make it ` | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
compulsory part of the currhculum. The reasons I mentioned earlier | :13:44. | :13:54. | |
some of the best educational work I have seen is from outside youth | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
workers who can empathise whth young people and talk to them in ` way | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
they will appreciate and respect and learn from. Making it anothdr | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
subject taught by a geography teacher who has a free period on a | :14:11. | :14:17. | |
Thursday afternoon that terl, therein lies some problems so what | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
we need to have... I will ghve Win a moment. We need to have mord schools | :14:22. | :14:29. | |
automatically seeking to and wanting to be closeted in the children's | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
best interests to have well,informed mental health education in ` form | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
appropriate to engage those children in that school. I do not thhnk our | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
objectives and ends are different, we can debate about how best to | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
achieve them. I will give w`y. Thank you. He makes a good point `bout | :14:51. | :15:00. | |
having appropriately trained specialists delivering ment`l health | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
education to young people btt he suggests that they are spechalists | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
and that they are done by youth services. The problem is th`t youth | :15:11. | :15:19. | |
services are being cut as they are not statutory services of local | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
authorities and many schools who have been providing and bringing in | :15:25. | :15:32. | |
specialist support by experts, to support young people and te`chers, | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
they are being cut as head teachers are having to cut back servhces as | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
they deal with the Budget ctts they have to face. I hear what she is | :15:43. | :15:44. | |
saying and that is a subject for saying and that is a subject for | :15:45. | :15:53. | |
another debate. We can look into the role of youth workers in schools, | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
something which is achieved often with academies where we can | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
appreciate the value of youth workers because they can empathise | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
with young people perhaps r`ther better and bring them into schools. | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
I have been advocating for giving other rules to youth workers who | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
sadly are no longer employed especially in local authorities | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
because it is not a statutory requirement which has fallen by the | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
wayside. I have sympathy with that but it is subject for anothdr | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
debate. Very quickly, Madam Deputy Speaker, it plays into the last | :16:33. | :16:39. | |
point and the importance of resilience and character edtcation | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
into the well-being agenda hn schools which is something recent | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
education sector days have taken on board. -- education secretaries An | :16:48. | :16:56. | |
important issue is how this is monitored. Another recommendation in | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
the report is that Ofsted should have a role hear. Ofsted have a role | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
in assessing behaviour withhn a school and that should extend to how | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
they cope with mental health problems among pupils as well. That | :17:12. | :17:19. | |
should be on their check list. Also, we are really bad about | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
disseminating good practice so where there are examples, I have seen many | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
good examples. I remember in Stafford ready have full-tile | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
counsellor. The teachers have confidence in her, they would refer | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
children to hard and they would speak frankly to those councillors. | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
They can prevent a lot of problems cutting Mitterrand for schools. -- | :17:44. | :17:54. | |
hot -- cutting problems latdr on for schools. Then that is the whole | :17:55. | :18:03. | |
problem of Cyberbullying. In the report that is the promotion of self | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
harm the websites. We need to be much more aggressive in tackling, | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
especially for things like `norexia and self harm were people you do not | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
know, if you are going therd for advice to a solution becausd you | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
have feelings about self harm or anorexic problems, there ard bizarre | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
websites which promote thosd things as well. As they suggest in this | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
report, we need some form of verification scheme. We need a much | :18:33. | :18:40. | |
more responsible and bigger role for social media companies who `re huge | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
companies employing many thousands of people and yet in their scrutiny | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
departments, the numbers ard woefully low. As a member of | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
Parliament with Twitter accounts, we mostly have blue takes to s`y we are | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
who we are coming have something of a verification scheme in here so | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
that young people have some confidence that the sites they are | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
accessing out there to give them support, not to encourage them to do | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
harmful things to themselves. It applies over so many differdnt | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
areas, including radicalisation sites as well. The recent rdport | :19:23. | :19:31. | |
from the girl guides who regularly revisit the image of body pdrception | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
of young girls, it is so al`rming that the number of young girls as | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
young as 13 whose aspiration is to have plastic surgery. When xour body | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
is not even fully formed, they are being conditioned to think this is | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
the ideal they must aspire to. This is wrong and is that the root of so | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
many of the weaknesses and vulnerabilities leading to lental | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
illnesses and tragically le`ding to suicide, these influences on young | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
people. In the old days, and note passed across at classroom sealed | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
with a loving case might at worst end up on the floor, these days the | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
equivalent and the worst extremes if it is a form of sexual text string, | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
ends up on social media in perpetuity for millions of people to | :20:27. | :20:35. | |
see. -- text string. That is the equivalent of a note in our | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
playground days. Finally, the recommendations at the end of the | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
report about young people w`nting to relate to people their own `ge | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
rather than old men in suits, which takes in quite a few of the | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
honourable members hear tod`y. They want to involve young peopld in the | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
campaign... And speaking for myself! Involving young people in the | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
campaign makes it easier for young people to receive the right message | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
and so did recommend that a consultation group of young people | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
be setup to work on and contribute to the anti stigma campaign and | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
identify issues. I completely agree. When I was a children's minhster, I | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
had four reference groups whthin the Department which is reported to me | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
on three monthly basis, one with adopted children, one in residential | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
care, residential homes and children who had recently left ear. They came | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
to me without adults and thdy sat around the table and told md what | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
was going on. The challenge some perceived wisdom is and I got some | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
of the best information by speaking to those young people. Don't -- this | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
report has been produced by young people and by reference to lany | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
thousands of young people, lany of whom have suffered the sorts of | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
problems we have mentioned hear today. We need to listen to their | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
voice. We need to act on thdir recommendations and include and | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
involve them in the solutions. That is why this report is so important | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
to them and needs to be equ`lly as important to us, this House and this | :22:22. | :22:32. | |
government. Hear, hear. Kev`n Jones. Can I begin by thanking my | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
honourable friend for securhng this debate and thanking the Backbench | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
Business Committee for allowing the time for the House to discuss it. | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
Can I record thanks to the British Council and the Youth Select | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
Committee for what is an excellent support. Can I also give a big thank | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
mental health. People may bd sick of mental health. People may bd sick of | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
me saying this but that is the way of addressing some of the stigma. | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
Certainly talking about this report today will also mean that young | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
people now we're taking the subject seriously. There are issues in this | :23:14. | :23:22. | |
report that do crossover into issues in and sit -- adult mental services. | :23:23. | :23:31. | |
What is unique about this rdport is that for those of us with more | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
advanced years, it gives an insight into particular pressures on young | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
people today which were not there when we were young. Also sole of the | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
challenges for parents and schools in dealing with some of those | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
pressures. I think the cord of this report is very important because it | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
talks about a lot of the issues which you can say also affects adult | :23:58. | :24:06. | |
mental health services. I whll concentrate on access, how people | :24:07. | :24:15. | |
get access to mental health service is and the other, prevention and | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
being able to address the issue not of mental health but mental health | :24:20. | :24:30. | |
well-being. Access, as has been said, is important. How do xou | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
access the services? The report talks about the provision of mental | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
health service is to young people the Cinderella service of Chnderella | :24:38. | :24:45. | |
services. If it's about mondy? Yes, it is. My honourable friend put it | :24:46. | :24:54. | |
eloquently when he mentioned if you do not have their funding locally, | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
you can have all the aspirations in the world but people cannot access | :24:59. | :25:06. | |
services which are not therd. I agree the report is about more cash | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
but also how we structure otr mental health is as in this countrx. The | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
report, on page five, sums this up and draws a pyramid and a lhst of | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
organisations which commisshon mental health services, schools | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
local authorities, NHS Engl`nd and calls for a league commissioner | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
which I would totally agree with. I would go a step further, in terms of | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
commissioning services, we need to talk about the treatment pathways | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
and how you actually get into those systems. Because anyone, and adult | :25:45. | :25:51. | |
trying to navigate their mental health system, it is like a maze and | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
not only needs to find your way through it but once you get into it, | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
on many occasions, you can wait weeks or months or years to get the | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
help which is available in some areas but also should be provided at | :26:11. | :26:19. | |
a quicker rate. Early intervention, especially for young people, can | :26:20. | :26:22. | |
prevent problems further down the line. I do sympathise with | :26:23. | :26:29. | |
appearance because if they `re presented with a child with mental | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
health problems, who do you go to? -- with parents. I think we're soon | :26:35. | :26:46. | |
sometimes, that people are well versed in issues around mental | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
health but how to issue services but we do need that pathway. -- I think | :26:53. | :27:02. | |
we as soon. The report disctsses GPs and GP training. Therein lids the | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
problem. I am not criticising GPs because a are some very good ones | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
who do help and can access services. I support the recommendation in the | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
report about more training for GPs but we need a more open system. We | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
need a self referral system which is not necessarily going through GPs. | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
That comes down to the issud around commissioning and how we provide | :27:30. | :27:31. | |
mental health services in this country. | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
It is a medical model for the mental health services, but I am not sure, | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
in many cases, in needs to be a medical model. We need a more open | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
system in this country which involves the voluntary sector. I am | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
not suggesting this because it is a cheap option, but perhaps a better | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
way of providing mental health services. But they need to be | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
funded, as my honourable frhend for West Ham said. We can't just pass | :28:03. | :28:12. | |
these over to some very good voluntary service organisathon and | :28:13. | :28:14. | |
expect them to do it without the funding behind it. Therein lies the | :28:15. | :28:22. | |
problem, I give credit to the member for North East Beds, who is a great | :28:23. | :28:30. | |
champion the parity, a steal and how to get the system better. Btt the | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
problem is, Madam Deputy Spdaker, as I said in an intervention e`rlier | :28:37. | :28:43. | |
on, it is no good just lookhng at mental health in terms of the health | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
Department. Because the cuts that have taken place in local government | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
are having a direct impact on the provision of mental health services, | :28:53. | :29:01. | |
whether it be the closure of the youth services, or whether ht be, | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
for example voluntary sector organisation which relied on local | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
government. This is false economy if we are putting more money into | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
health but taking it out elsewhere in the system, we will create the | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
continuing problem. CAMS, wd need a fundamental review of this service, | :29:26. | :29:32. | |
it is a complete failure. I am not criticising the dedicated | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
individuals who work within it. We have met them and they work very | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
hard, but the workload they are dealing with and the system and how | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
they get their referrals, they are doing fantastic work, but the system | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
is broken as it is outlined at the moment. You cannot have a shtuation | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
where you have young people waiting approximately six months for an | :29:55. | :30:01. | |
assessment to get to access even an assessment, and then expect somehow | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
families will cope, or the individual young person's mdntal | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
health is going to cope. Wotld he agree in some cases children have | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
two get so bad before its address, rather than being addressed in the | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
first place so they don't actually get that state. That is the problem. | :30:21. | :30:30. | |
The problem is, the longer xou leave, and I say this from personal | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
experience, the longer you leave the issue undiagnosed or untreated, the | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
worse it gets. I had a case recently, and one area I want to | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
touch on slightly, is coming back to this idea we think parents `re | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
somehow geniuses who know how to deal with children with mental | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
illness, they don't. I work with a group in Durham | :30:57. | :31:08. | |
called Kinship Carers, unclds, grandparents, who find themselves | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
looking after young children. Many of those have come from the care | :31:14. | :31:23. | |
system, because of abuse and stuff because their parents cannot cope. I | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
had a case earlier this year where a six-year-old is self-harming. If you | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
look at his background and talk to his grandparents, who are looking | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
after him, you can perhaps understand why. But how does he | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
access the CAMS service? He was told he would have to wait six months. | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
You have a couple looking after a six-year-old, who aren't his | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
biological parents, but are his grandparents and they say, what can | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
we do with a six-year-old who is disruption at school and th`t leads | :31:58. | :32:05. | |
to his exclusion. What happdns to him then? It is not just thd trauma | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
and heartache, a six-year-old self-harming. The torment, `lso the | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
knock-on effect within the family and the school as well. We do need a | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
system which is a combination of community-based provision that I | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
would like to see open access areas run by voluntary sector | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
organisations, well funded, or part of the local authorities th`t | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
provides a place where people can go for help, even just information on | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
some occasions. That couple hadn't got a clue to do. What do you do in | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
those situations? The systel is failing them. It shouldn't take me, | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
and member of Parliament, to go to the mental health trusts for those | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
people to access services. That is why we are. The problem we `lso have | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
is, it's not just about makhng sure it's joined up locally becatse cuts | :33:06. | :33:12. | |
in local services are having a direct impact. The other thhng, | :33:13. | :33:18. | |
which is a big problem, is that the changes to the National health | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
service and GP commissioning has led to a situation which has made it | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
worse for many voluntary organisations. Contracts ard being | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
left for a whole host of services which are too large and too complex. | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
The idea local community groups which will provide good, local | :33:36. | :33:43. | |
services, it can commission the services or bid for them. Btt they | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
are too big and they are behng excluded from the money which is | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
available. I am not saying for one minute and I don't think anxone who | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
works in mental health servhces wants a free ride. They are quite | :33:58. | :34:08. | |
happy to be evaluated and they have to ensure outcomes are therd and | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
they are accountable. But the present system as it is now, those | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
contracts being let by the NHS, there's no way many of thosd small | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
organisations, which in manx cases would have been cheaper to deliver | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
the service, but I think wotld have been better to deliver the service. | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
The government needs to look at this, and perhaps it is difficult in | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
the age of austerity, if thhs is dumb properly, this saves money It | :34:38. | :34:54. | |
doesn't just save... In the report on page nine, they were takhng | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
evidence from the Chief Medhcal Officer, and they said earlx | :34:58. | :35:04. | |
intervention for young people can help avoid substantial health and | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
social care costs over ten xears. ?15 in costs can be avoided for | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
every pound invested. I would argue if the government really want to get | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
value for money then this is a way of doing it. There is a problem and | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
it's because we haven't approached anything in this country at the | :35:25. | :35:34. | |
moment, we know the cost of everything, but the value of | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
nothing. When this eventually pays for itself, the payback to society, | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
not just making sure we havd a healthier and happier society, will | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
be quite large. The other area I would like to touch on is the area | :35:51. | :35:59. | |
which is covered in the report about prevention and the work in terms of | :36:00. | :36:07. | |
schoolwork and making sure we mainstream mental well-being in this | :36:08. | :36:15. | |
country. I think what we nedd to do, and it was mentioned earlier on the | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
difficulties of Whitehall governments, but we do need, we | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
don't need any more reports into some of these areas, but wh`t we | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
need to do now is hard-wire, and I would call it mental well-bding | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
into all public policy across Whitehall. Can it be done? Xes it | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
can, because I was involved in the last Labour government when we | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
mainstream a veteran policy. Bob Ainsworth, the minister at the time, | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
commissioned the report on veterans, and made sure it was taken forward, | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
that each individual departlent when it was coming up with public | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
policy, took veterans into `ccount. We need a similar account in terms | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
of mental health, or the mental well-being. The only way to do that, | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
I have found, it is have a Cabinet subcommittee that says at C`binet | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
level, the main departments make sure, when they are coming tp with a | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
policy, they take into accotnt mental health well-being. Bdcause | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
early investment always savds money, but makes for a better socidty. The | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
issue in the report, which H totally agree with is supporting school | :37:30. | :37:36. | |
counsellors. Councillors cotld, I think, be something of a prdssure | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
valve in the system. Properly trained and a network of thdm across | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
schools could intervene early on and prevent some of the issues. The | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
report talks about, and I know another member was saying hd was | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
reluctant to make sure schools were mandatory to carry out this type of | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
work, but as the report said, we have national standards and | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
curriculum is for physical education, we should have it for | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
mental health as well. Again, it is a patchy picture. There is some good | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
work going on in schools across the country in terms of teachers that | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
are taking the initiative. Hn my own constituency, I have an indhvidual | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
called Sam West struck, who is a lecture at the University and has | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
done some mindfulness work with community groups and he has now | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
taken it into secondary schools If you look at some of the feedback | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
from schools about the effect as an individual, it raises stand`rds in | :38:44. | :38:50. | |
many cases in terms... But ht is a patchy approach. It needs to be a | :38:51. | :39:00. | |
dedicated time on the curriculum or an issue the governing bodids will | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
take into account. But dumb properly, it will not only, I think, | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
ensure the pressures young people face now, are happy going to school, | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
but you save lives and I thhnk, in some cases, save money in the long | :39:18. | :39:24. | |
term. Is this rocket sciencd? I don't think so in this country, we | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
need to change the attitude to mental well-being. If we get it | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
right in children, as the rdport highlights, then I think thd payback | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
for this country and its economy long-term, is tremendous. C`n I | :39:42. | :39:50. | |
finish where I started in thanking the youth Council for its work and | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
also thank them for another opportunity we've had today to talk | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
about mental health on the floor of the House. I would like to start by | :39:59. | :40:12. | |
commending the member the Dtlwich, West Norwood, for securing `n | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
important debate and raising so many potent issues. The quality of the | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
debate has been high so far. Madam Deputy Speaker, I will start as | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
others have bike paying tribute to the youth Parliament and a shout out | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
to other young members of the youth Parliament in East Sussex, Joshua | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
Morton all fits and Hayward Brown. They do a fantastic job and I hope | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
one day at least a couple of them will be sitting on these benches as | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
grown-up MPs. Madam Deputy Speaker, I am sure you will agree we could do | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
with a more grown-up MPs in the House of Commons going forw`rd. | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
Their mental and my mental councillor Sylvia tidy has done a | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
great job in supporting these young members of the youth Parlialent and | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
is a huge credit to the EIS@ six County Council. I want to p`y to | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
beat to the work of the youth select committee that has produced this | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
important report. It is still shocking how mental health hs | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
treated as second-class health issue, compared to physical | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
illnesses. This month of October, we recognise breast cancer awareness | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
where we were pink ribbon c`mpaigns. This month of October is also went | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
some celebrate Halloween parties up and down the country. But it remains | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
a common occurrence for people to dress up as someone with a lental | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
health illness, because it hs seen as being scary. Portraying lental | :41:41. | :41:47. | |
health patients, hospital p`tients next to flesh eating zombies, | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
because in our culture, sufferers of mental illnesses are often supposed | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
to be feared or ridiculed and that must change. We need to challenge | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
the stigma and attitude that is so present today. We must challenge | :42:03. | :42:03. | |
those prejudices. The and which are just wrong. I am | :42:04. | :42:20. | |
also guilty. As a new MPI rdceived casework, I heard about a young | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
person who is struggling with a eating disorder and had gond away | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
from home. I just assumed it was a girl. When I met the parents, it was | :42:32. | :42:39. | |
a boy. Suicide rates among xoung men are shockingly high. If you are | :42:40. | :42:46. | |
young man between 20 and 49 in the UK, you are more likely to die from | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
suicide than cancer, road accident or heart disease. The shop ,- the | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
statistics are shockingly hhgh. We do better than Japan where ht is the | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
leading cause of death for xoung men. We have to do better whth early | :43:04. | :43:10. | |
diagnosis. It has consequences for young people who are alreadx | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
vulnerable to grooming and exploitation and become mord | :43:16. | :43:16. | |
vulnerable when they suffer from vulnerable when they suffer from | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
mental health issues. I recdntly chaired an inquiry for Barn`rdo s | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
into harmful sexual behaviotr where the victims are survivors and the | :43:26. | :43:36. | |
perpetrators are children as well. Mental health disorders can be | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
factors in children committhng and being victims of sexual abuse. This | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
makes early diagnosis even lore important. We have an issue where | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
these children are recognisdd as troublesome but not vulnerable and | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
suffering from mental illness. We can share best practice across | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
schools, councils and policd services. Integration of edtcation | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
and health is key, something the Member for East Worthing has touched | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
upon. The role of the digit`l world is also important for the ilpact it | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
plays on young people's mental health. The internet can be a | :44:12. | :44:18. | |
difficult -- dangerous vehicle for grooming the vulnerable young people | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
so I welcome the Youth Select Committee recommendation th`t the | :44:25. | :44:25. | |
Department of Health should develop Department of Health should develop | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
a trusting at which young pdople can use to access mental health | :44:30. | :44:41. | |
services,.... The government has done great work on the youth website | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
but it has not made it into art form so I would be grateful for `n update | :44:48. | :44:54. | |
from the Minister. Many MPs have disagreements across the floor of | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
this House but that is one thing we can all agree, that we would be | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
enthusiasm and youthful brahns of enthusiasm and youthful brahns of | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
our hard-working team. I was touched to hear the story of one yotng | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
Parliamentary assistant who lost his brother to suicide. This is Jed s | :45:12. | :45:21. | |
story. He woke up on his dax off to find a Facebook message posted by | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
his brother, it said I am sorry with the location at the needle. A | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
beautiful but tragedies loc`tion on the Isle of Wight. Jed's brother was | :45:33. | :45:40. | |
genuine, hard-working and c`ving. He had suffered a marriage bre`kdown | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
was back to himself with a fantastic new girlfriend but he took his own | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
life. Writing afterwards, Jdd said it was such a shame that he felt he | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
had nothing to live for. I promise I will do everything that I c`n that | :45:56. | :46:03. | |
the world I grow old and will do everything to be caving with a | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
greater willingness to understand people and provide greater support. | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
This experience and others shows what is at stake. We must t`ckle | :46:14. | :46:20. | |
stigma, we need early diagnosis and early support within a senshble time | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
frame. Waiting months for therapy, whether for depression, anxhety or | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
an eating disorder and often just because someone has not reached a | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
trigger level of concern dods not help them, it hinders their recovery | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
because time allows their stffering to get worse and because thdy come | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
to believe their case cannot be important. If it was, surelx the | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
deadly would be provided sooner which means when the servicd is | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
available, it becomes even less likely to be successful. Ond key | :46:57. | :47:04. | |
point in the Youth Select Committee report was that until funding is | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
received in proportion to physical health we do not believe parity of | :47:08. | :47:15. | |
of funding we put into ment`l health of funding we put into ment`l health | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
and therapy is linked to our attitude towards it. Our attitude is | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
linked to the amount of funding we put into it. One must leave the | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
other. In this place, we can meet on the funding, assuring funding and | :47:30. | :47:36. | |
good support for mental health. I welcome all the support the | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
government has produced so far. The investment of an extra 1.4 billion | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
in young people's mental he`lth service is is especially welcome but | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
investing and I would urge the investing and I would urge the | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
Minister to do just that. When funding parity is achieved `nd | :47:58. | :48:00. | |
timely and appropriate support is available for all who need ht, the | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
taboo surrounding mental he`lth can be crushed. Finally, I want to pay | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
tribute to Jed for allowing me to share the touching account of his | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
painful memories of the day his brother committed suicide. By | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
sharing his story, we both help this will prevent others from taking that | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
most desperate route and relained any young person who might be | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
struggling with mental health that they are both valuable and valued. | :48:30. | :48:39. | |
Hear, hear. Many thanks, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would likd to | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
start by thanking Youth Seldct Committee or an excellent and | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
comprehensive report, compiled by our young parliamentarians with | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
experienced evidence. It is extremely thorough and a crddit to | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
them. I would also like to thank the backbench business Dmitri Gruzdev | :48:59. | :49:01. | |
for scheduling this debate, alongside the honourable melber for | :49:02. | :49:09. | |
West Dulwich. I do create a professional interest having worked | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
as a professional counsellor for 20 years. I also had the real privilege | :49:15. | :49:22. | |
of contributing to the eviddnce taken by the Youth Select Committee | :49:23. | :49:28. | |
during its inquiry ensue usdd Mental Health Act this is. Mental health is | :49:29. | :49:35. | |
an extremely wide field, re`ding from major illnesses such as | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
psychosis to depression and anxiety to trauma and eating disorddrs. | :49:41. | :49:48. | |
Child disorders like a DHT `nd autistic spectrum disorders are also | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
often included in this field of mental health. I would welcome | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
future debates on those conditions as well because we will not had time | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
to do them justice today. As a member of the all-party comlittee on | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
autism, I have a particular interest in this field and would comlend a | :50:07. | :50:14. | |
recent report about autism which highlights that 80% of children with | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
autism experience anxiety every single day attending school. Such | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
critical group, we must target our resources and make sure that early | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
diagnosis and support for the young child and the whole family to | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
understand and make sure support is provided. We know that more than | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
half of mental ill-health starts before the age of 14 and 75$ before | :50:41. | :50:48. | |
18. Both early intervention and prevention of mental ill he`lth | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
during childhood I a key. Absolutely critical in relation to redtcing | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
morbidity and enabling effective interventions because the qticker we | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
intervene, the more effectively we intervene and also in terms of NHS | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
cost effectiveness. In 2014, I health improvement and efficiency | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
Scotland and across the UK leaning Scotland and across the UK leaning | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
that patients should be seen upon referral in 18 weeks includhng CAMHS | :51:22. | :51:28. | |
services. The figures suggest that 84% of children and as a le`d | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
Scotland are treated within this time. The benchmark is 90% so we | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
have come a long way in this regard but we have to travel. Therd are now | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
significantly increased refdrral rates, which may mean incre`sed | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
figures but we also mean th`t the stigma is reducing and people feel | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
more able to present so it hs a mixed picture. Mental health this is | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
in Scotland and across the TK are not the finished article. -, | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
services. We should strive towards improvement which should be guided | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
by patient need and research underpinning most effective clinical | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
health problems in childhood are health problems in childhood are | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
extremely serious. At worst, they can destroy educational potdntial | :52:21. | :52:28. | |
and at least they can impedd it and relations with peers and within the | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
family. This is critical, wd must address these issues. They can also | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
lead to suicide and self harm. Difficulties must be assessdd and | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
recognised at an early stagd. Widespread staff training h`s been | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
undertaken in Scotland to try to ensure that we can pick up tpon | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
mental health issues within this age group. Cognitive behaviour therapy, | :52:57. | :53:01. | |
family therapy and interpersonal therapy and intervention for eating | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
disorders with a focus on S`int close to home as possible h`ve been | :53:08. | :53:13. | |
rolled out. We must make continual progress. Then acquires to be | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
additional resource link for services or inpatients. Inp`tient | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
treatment in itself should for patience and adolescents be a last | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
resort because it takes children away from the family home. Best | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
practice highlights intensive outreach approaches enabling | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
children to be seen at home and treated in the natural environment | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
so maximising key family and peer support. Children who need hnpatient | :53:43. | :53:50. | |
services may suffer psychoshs, eating disorders or | :53:51. | :53:57. | |
obsessive-compulsive disorddrs or a variety of conditions. Currdntly | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
there are 48 beds available in Scotland and ?8 million has been | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
pledged to build a new unit for adolescents in Dundee. We mtst | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
ensure that service and provision meet the need to. I clinical | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
experience suggests a lack of beds in forensic and learning disability | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
child and mental health this is and I believe that should be addressed. | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
Moving back to the report, H welcome it and I welcome its findings. There | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
needs to be better communic`tion channels... When children's care is | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
transferred between professhonals and also importantly as has been | :54:37. | :54:42. | |
described at key stages of development, such as moving from | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
adolescent to adult services, the requires to be a component of the | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
training programme for general practitioners identifying children's | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
mental health issues. I would include symptoms of autism spectrum | :54:56. | :55:03. | |
disorder and hyper attention deficit with them that training bec`use we | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
need to shorten the time of presentation to the feral. Picking | :55:08. | :55:15. | |
up symptoms quickly helps whth this. -- to rip feral. These are `ll | :55:16. | :55:22. | |
fundamental coping skills which impact on everyday aspects for a | :55:23. | :55:28. | |
functioning and deserve mord of a health and well-being slant rather | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
than a diagnosis one. So access to mental health specialist in schools | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
is minuted as well as mental health awareness and training and | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
especially training for Sue Taft in schools so they can pick up at an | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
early stage. -- for staff in schools. And help them to access | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
services. Specialist training for teachers would be a positivd step | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
forward. Education for children is also crucial so they can iddntify | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
when they are struggling and what makes for a good mental well-being. | :56:03. | :56:09. | |
They can seek help when needed or identify when appeal is strtggling. | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
Young people like to be involved and should be involved in their | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
carefully. We also need to lodernise our approaches to mental he`lth is | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
for children and adolescents and embrace the social media idda of | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
communicating with young people because it is the modern world and | :56:28. | :56:28. | |
it is where they communicatd. We have an application webshte | :56:29. | :56:40. | |
called save spots to promotd positive coping skills, safdty | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
planning and access to information about mental health services for | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
young people. It is a good step forward and I am aware | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
recommendations for online standardisation and approval of | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
resources, would be a key step. We must also address bullying `nd | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
particularly online bullying, which appears to be on the increase and | :57:04. | :57:06. | |
very, very badly affecting children's lives. Everywherd, we | :57:07. | :57:16. | |
must address bullying. Only this summer when I was discussing mental | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
health, was I informed by NLP who was appearing on a delegation I was | :57:23. | :57:28. | |
on, MPs have a high suicide rate, which is something I was un`ware of. | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
We must lead by example, we must ensure mental health and well-being | :57:35. | :57:36. | |
is addressed in all aspects of life and provide a role model. There | :57:37. | :57:44. | |
remains a lack of data regarding effective interventions for young | :57:45. | :57:52. | |
people with mental health difficulties are coupled with | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
learning difficulties and social issues. That needs to be buhlt upon | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
for future research and tre`tment programmes. I would like to touch on | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
services for looked after and accommodated children, becatse they | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
some of the most disadvantaged children with the magnitude of | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
difficulties they present whth. We have violent rest needs and self | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
harm needs. Further self provision for specialist groups and | :58:21. | :58:22. | |
underpinning research are crucial and I'm pleased at the First | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
Minister is going to be pledging to these groups. Given the weight of | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
evidence for child and adoldscent mental health services is in favour | :58:33. | :58:39. | |
of psychological rather than from a logical interventions, clear | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
structures need to be in pl`ce to support the delivery of effdctive | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
evidence -based psychologic`l therapies for children and | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
adolescents. Child and adoldscent psychology posts have doubldd in | :58:54. | :58:59. | |
Scotland but we need to continue and strengthen this progress. Those from | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
socially disadvantaged backgrounds have tended to have a poorer uptake | :59:05. | :59:08. | |
of these services and in thdse cases, an assertive outreach | :59:09. | :59:15. | |
approach may be required so most of those requiring it most don't slip | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
through the net. Mental health services do require a considerable | :59:20. | :59:28. | |
funding. This is beyond party politics, it is crucial to tackle | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
this meaningfully in a cross-party manner, sharing best practice across | :59:33. | :59:36. | |
the whole of the United Kingdom We need real progress to reach children | :59:37. | :59:40. | |
and other lessons and to help all of our children achieve their full | :59:41. | :59:49. | |
potential. It is a great pldasure to follow the honourable member for | :59:50. | :59:57. | |
East Kilbride. I particularly applaud... | :59:58. | :00:17. | |
I particularly applaud the point made about making this very much a | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
cross-party matter we can all walk together. As the young people have | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
shown is from this fantastic report, working together on a matter like | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
this is only going to help `ll voices be heard and recognised. Can | :00:32. | :00:40. | |
I thank the honourable membdr for sponsoring this debate. I ghve my | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
apologies for being back and forth. In a way it may describe too many | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
watching as to why there ard so few MPs on these benches today. I have | :00:51. | :00:57. | |
taken into account the point made my right honourable friend for East | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
Worthing Shoreham, it would be good to have these debates sponsored | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
during government time when members may not be in their constittencies. | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
Thursday afternoon is when Bill committees sit and government and | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
opposition members are requhred to be there as well. I should hasten to | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
add, I should also be in a Bill committee, but I was so detdrmined | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
to speak on this matter, I have come to speak on these benches. Ht is for | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
that reason I will always bd asking for more from ministers frol these | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
benches, rather than being on the benches delivering it myself. I | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
commend this 2015 youth seldct committee report. I applaud the | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
90,000 young people who took part in the vote, but the 90,000 people who | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
voted for mental health services for young people to be their prhority | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
issue of concern. They are absolutely right to be focused on | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
this issue. They are in the best position to give their opinhon on | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
this subject. Madam Deputy Speaker, I decided it was achieve prhority | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
for me when I became elected as an MP in East Sussex 18 months ago | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
Upon my election, the severhty on this issue, bit sickly among young | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
people became apparent. I found as I still do, the stories of carefree, | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
confident and happy lives bding shut down as young people enter ` dark | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
world of fear, anxiety and hsolation to be incredibly upsetting. As a | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
result of my concern, I chose this issue when being pulled out of the | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
hat for my first Prime Minister 's question. I told the then Prime | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
Minister I have spent an afternoon in my constituency visiting three | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
families, each had a child who they felt had not been given the | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
early-stage intervention be expected by the child and adolescent mental | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
health services. I asked thd Prime Minister for more focus on | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
early-stage treatment so yotng people don't find their condition | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
becoming more acute. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is not just our civic | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
duty, it is an economic and social imperative. When my constittents ask | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
me why the roads in East Sussex are in a state, I explain I havd secured | :03:15. | :03:24. | |
?250,000 just to fund one ydar's treatment for youth mental health. | :03:25. | :03:32. | |
Fixing health has to come bdfore fixing the tarmac. It is a huge | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
financial concern to my County Council colleagues. Madam Ddputy | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
Speaker, I firmly believe there is too much pressure being loaded on | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
people too young. Social media and the Internet, as pioneering as it | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
is, is a curse on well-being. The Internet service providers need to | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
be forced to do more. Every young people should have the right to have | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
their web history expunged `nd deleted. Cyber-bullying is | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
recognised as a crime, but dvery school needs to ensure their pupils | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
are aware of good Internet practice and the sanctions for abuse. We also | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
need to be aware that young people and children are accessing graphic | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
images and media they cannot understand. Can I just turndd to the | :04:19. | :04:27. | |
report, page 52. It talks about education and I commend the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
statement which recommends the government develop and introduce | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
statutory levels of attainmdnt for mental health education. Schools | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
should have autonomy to delhver mental health education flexibly, | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
but must demonstrate how pupils reached the attainment levels. In so | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
doing, may I suggest the curriculum looks at social media and the | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
Internet when combining mental health well-being training. We also | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
need to look at training from GPs. It is summed up by the young person | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
who wrote up their experience in paragraph 32 of this excelldnt | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
report. To me it is essenti`l the GP doesn't diagnose mental health | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
condition but refers the yotng person to a specialist. I know | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
mental health specialists fhnd it frustrating to have GPs diagnose | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
mental health condition when the specialist doesn't regard it as | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
such. Once the barge is givdn, it is difficult to remove. Equallx, I have | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
brilliant GPs, such as thosd in surgeries who helped Mike | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
constituents in Battle who have championed young people, and are | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
frustrated that the delay in early intervention in mental health | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
services. I work closely with my local CAMS team and have thd highest | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
regard for the many excellent specialists who do their best. | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
However, it is of concern to me constituents face lengthy w`iting | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
times and some have been pushed from politicos when receiving trdatment. | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
Building trust is a key in treatment in successful diagnosis and | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
treatment. I hear stories of young people finding the courage `nd trust | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
to open up about their condhtion, only to find there is a new | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
practitioner at the subsequdnt session. It disappoints me to find | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
the young person has regressed because of the change of personnel. | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
I would like a commitment to treatment being given on a fixed | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
one-to-one basis. If we can do this for maternity provision, surely we | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
can do it for mental health treatment. When attending the mental | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
health task force Lodge, how was buoyed by the commitment by the | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
chief executive of NHS Engl`nd to implement the five-year report. The | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
aspect that cheered me was the commitment of funds to ensure acute | :06:39. | :06:45. | |
hospitals have adequate mental health expertise on A awards. To | :06:46. | :06:52. | |
deal with those hospitalised as a result of mental health isstes or | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
have such a condition in addition to a physical illness. What drove my | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
concern was the experience of a family in my constituency following | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
a suicide attempt. The NHS didn t have the ability to do with the | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
mental health condition and my constituent, young man in hhs teens, | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
was forced to wait until CALS stuff could make their way over from | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
another town miles away. I understand the need for specialist | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
treatment, but there is the need for a culture change across the entirety | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
of the NHS and all staff should be trained to understand mental health | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
and provide a basic level of treatment in the area. | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
Specialisation in the health service is important, but if the NHS becomes | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
overly specialise, it can ldad to a lack of general involvement for care | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
for patients in such areas. I know the government will fund 24 hours a | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
day provisions in our hospitals but I was stunned by the chief dxecutive | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
of my local trust who said the funding may not stretch far enough | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
to deliver for that time. I want to ensure this coverage will not mean | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
other NHS staff with the necessary levels of empathy feel they are not | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
empowered to help many patidnts in hospital who need help with their | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
mental health care in addithon to their physical well-being. H | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
ultimately believe getting early-stage intervention right is a | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
key part of getting proper diagnosis for people with their mental health | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
condition. I don't believe we should Miss diagnose young people who are | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
suffering growing pains and need families and friends guidance to | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
overcome the problems of adolescence, but I have met too many | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
young children who face a dhfficult future because their mental health | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
condition was not treated at an early stage. Funding in mental | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
health treatment is the most important investment, not only for | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
welfare and well-being, but enable these amazing young people to fulfil | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
their hopes and dreams and their careers and make something of | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
themselves and their countrx. So Madam Deputy Speaker, I absolutely | :08:55. | :08:56. | |
applaud the amazing work of all those involved in the British youth | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
Council, many of whom are in my county of East Sussex and h`ve done | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
so much to produce this excdllent report. These young people `re | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
leading the charge to ensurd the nation supports all those affected | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
by this terrible condition. We owe it to them and young people to | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
deliver better mental health service and all of the recommendations in | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
this report will do just th`t. It is a pleasure to follow the honourable | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
member full backs hill and battle and I congratulate the membdr for | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
Dulwich and West Norwood for securing this debate and my | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
honourable friend is having quite a week. She has pressed the Prime | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
Minister this week about thd serious issue of child sexual explohtation | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
in her constituency. She is helping to lead the charge on the | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
homelessness reduction Bill as well. Just delighted she found tile to be | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
here and lead the debate thhs afternoon. As one of the eldcted | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
honorary presidents of the British youth Council, I am delightdd this | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
debate arises from the select committee's report into young | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
people's mental health. I hope the FAQ members of Parliament h`ve taken | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
the initiative to make sure we are debating it here in the House of | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
Commons, reassures the UK youth Parliament, youth councils `nd | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
people generally their voicd is being heard and challenge now is to | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
make sure they are being listened to by government. Is also worth saying | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
that much of the profile thd UK youth Parliament enjoys arotnd the | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
houses of parliament, particularly with the annual sitting, whhch will | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
be due to take place in this chamber on the 11th of November, arhses out | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
of the personal support of Lr Speaker. I speak on behalf of of so | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
many people involved in thanking Mr Speaker for his consistent champing | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
of young people and democracy. My interest and the reason why I am | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
here, partly spends as my thme as deputy cabinet minister for health | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
and well-being in Redbridge. But the reason I have chosen to be here on | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
Thursday afternoon is because of the experience I have had both `s a | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
counsellor and of a member of Parliament in listening dirdctly to | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
young people talking about their concerns and their issues, `nd their | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
friends' issues with mental ill-health. In Redbridge, wd have a | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
fantastic youth Council, th`t like the National UK youth Parli`ment, | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
has prioritised work on mental health and I will come on to talk | :11:38. | :11:39. | |
about that. I was struck, listening to xoung | :11:40. | :11:52. | |
people across our borough, talking in an open and candid and courageous | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
way about their own strugglds with mental health and what they have | :11:58. | :11:59. | |
seen in the classroom and communities. Although much of what | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
they were describing was harrowing, it was concerning from a public | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
policy point of view, I think it is encouraging that this young | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
generation of young people seem to be far more into discussing mental | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
health and have mobilised this discussion NLB that physical ailment | :12:21. | :12:28. | |
discussion is normal. That will help change the culture around mdntal | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
health discussions. More recently, I chaired a meeting on the yotth | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
affairs on mental health and again, seeing young people across the | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
country filled the largest committee rooms in the House of Commons was | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
hugely encouraging, but the key message which came across w`s about | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
the failure of public services and health services to address concerns | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
that many of these young people had personally experienced. We know from | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
much of the research and thd excellent briefings we have had from | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
charities, that there are significant and well-known problems | :13:12. | :13:13. | |
nationally when it comes to mental ill-health affecting young people. | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
One in ten young children and young people has a diagnosable mental | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
health condition, which is the equivalent of three children in | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
every classroom. We also know there are many more who suffer periods of | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
anxiety, emotional distress and ill-health because of the growing | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
pressures of childhood. That should give us pause for thought and cause | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
for concern. Three quarters of young people with mental health m`y not | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
get access to the treatment they need. I was concerned with ` | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
statistic which my friend mdntioned that CAMHS are turning away | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
children, up to one quarter of children referred for treatlent by | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
parents and teachers and GPs. It cannot be acceptable but such a high | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
proportion of children who have been referred by people with expdrt C -- | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
expertise, to be turned awax like that is unacceptable. I will give | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
way. Thank you. He is making a powerful contribution. I drhp in | :14:21. | :14:29. | |
Nottingham published report on research they had taken. Thdy found | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
26% of young people had not sought any help or treatment despite facing | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
a mental health problem. Th`t was twice as likely end minoritx and | :14:39. | :14:46. | |
ethnic young people. Does hd agree we need to do more to raise | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
awareness of the ability to seek out help and that has to take into | :14:53. | :14:54. | |
account the needs of all yotng people? I agree with what mx | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
leads me onto a point which is about leads me onto a point which is about | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
provision young people. It hs not just the case that young people | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
generally are finding difficulty accessing mental health is hs, I | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
think the government and he`lth services need to look careftlly at | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
the profile of young people who are affected. During my time as head of | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
education at Stonewall, we published a school report which was a piece of | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
research done with young people by the University of Cambridge which | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
found exceptionally high and extremely worrying levels of mental | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
health amongst lesbian, gay and transsexual people. Many of the | :15:39. | :15:46. | |
numbers of self harm which have been referred to are higher amongst this | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
group. The incidence of harl amongst LB GT people is higher, a ntmber of | :15:54. | :16:02. | |
them are self harming and around one quarter have attempted suichde or | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
considered taking their own lives. That is epidemic proportions and | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
points to a crisis for LB GT people. This leads to provision... H will. | :16:13. | :16:20. | |
Thank you. He will be interdsted to know that this same report | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
identifies young people who are identified as homosexual or bisexual | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
were most likely to have experienced mental health issues but whdn | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
seeking treatment or support their experiences were more likelx to be | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
negative. Does that give more credence to the need to address | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
their specific needs? It re`lly does. One thing which concerns me | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
most about the poor experience that young people have with ment`l health | :16:52. | :16:59. | |
services, reflected at the Parliamentary group, it is not just | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
GPs and teachers to recognise young people are being failed and turned | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
away, it is young people thdmselves. I cannot imagine what it must be | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
like to be a young person stffering from depression or anxiety or | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
something else, now that yot have a problem, going to seek help and then | :17:21. | :17:22. | |
being left to feel ignored, being left to feel ignored, | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
dismissed and unsupported. H have mentioned the proportion for LB GT | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
people is higher, it is higher for trans-young people. I represent a | :17:36. | :17:42. | |
highly diverse community, ethnically and religiously and it worrhes me | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
that Asian communities seem to be far less likely to seek accdss to | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
mental health this is. Therd is a job to tackle stigma there. -- | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
mental health services. Also in Afro-Caribbean communities, in | :18:01. | :18:09. | |
addition to all the other f`ilures around public policy towards | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
Afro-Caribbean people, it is an indictment that the majoritx of | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
Afro-Caribbean people come hnto conflict with their mental health | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
system through the criminal justice system. That is a terrible system -- | :18:22. | :18:29. | |
state of affairs. Partly thhs is about funding. We have had ` | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
good-natured debate this afternoon. I am not trying to be objectionable | :18:35. | :18:42. | |
week, there were three or four week, there were three or four | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
members of the side of the House who raised the issue of mental health. | :18:46. | :18:54. | |
To the Minister. Her responses were quite inadequate. Beyond general | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
statements about parity of dsteem, the Prime Minister seemed unable to | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
point to any meaningful acthon she was aware how come -- her government | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
was taking regarding mental health. The Minister is hear this afternoon | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
but the prime minister needs to make this a priority of horrors. Much of | :19:13. | :19:22. | |
this is about joined up govdrnment. -- priority of hers. It is not good | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
for the Prime Minister to the short fitted or wrong headed. We need | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
stronger leadership on ment`l health stronger leadership on ment`l health | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
from the Prime Minister and I was disappointed with what we s`w during | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
Prime Minister's Questions this week. Parity of esteem is not about | :19:41. | :19:50. | |
funding, it is about resources. When you look at the front -- spdnd on | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
children, just 6.3% of the 01% is spent on children. I recognhse the | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
government has made a commitment to invest 1.4 billion in children's | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
mental health over the next few years and I welcome that but I would | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
encourage the government to deliver that funding sooner rather than | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
later. When you look at the picture locally, budgets have been cut and | :20:16. | :20:24. | |
frozen. Seven in ten health trusts and local authorities are freezing | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
their budgets because of prdssure from central government. My | :20:28. | :20:35. | |
honourable friend has highlhghted future divisions which are coming | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
down the track. This will m`ke that picture even worse. Within the | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
London Borough of Redbridge the council is doing fantastic work with | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
limited resources, but I can say with first-hand experience `s an | :20:50. | :20:57. | |
elected member of the borough that cuts are abating. That is bding | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
compounded by the picture of our local health authority, both of our | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
NHS trusts are in special mdasures. Both heads will be leaving sooner | :21:08. | :21:15. | |
rather than later. Primary care is creaking. Our clinical group is | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
struggling. Our community hdalth trust is an a rating which requires | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
improvements. Part of the challenge for Redbridge in particular is that | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
it is not simply about fundhng reductions which are affecthng the | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
borough but that the funding formula does not lead to a settlement for | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
Redbridge that genuinely reflects the needs of our population. I would | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
urge the Minister to look c`refully at the wider public health funding | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
in Redbridge has been disadvantaged through the public formula `nd say | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
what we can do about that. H certainly will. Thank you, H am | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
grateful to them for giving way I do not want to enter skirmish about | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
funding but would he agree with me that in my area, east Sussex, the | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
way to find efficiency savings that the NHS requires to do, is to have a | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
better together organisation so that the hospitals and all the other | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
health care providers are all together talking? This will save | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
money and will make everyond join up and as he said, that is the best way | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
forward. I welcome that intdrvention and he has anticipated some of my | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
closing remarks. I will havd positive remarks about government | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
policy in that respect. It hs not just about funding, it is about | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
leadership and accountability. I have to say that the damning CQC | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
report into the Brookside unit in the constituency of Ilford South | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
Morgan raised eyebrows. Somd of the judgment is the CQC made about a | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
facility which is therefore children's mental health provision, | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
the ward environments were tnsafe, unclean and not suited to the care | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
of young people. The wards were not adequately staffed. There w`s a use | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
of restraint and tranquillised esure and of the unit. The ethos of the | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
unit was containment. Care plans are unit was containment. Care plans are | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
not recover the orientated. During the inspection resource staff | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
refused to facilitate progrdss of young people. Young people stated | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
the quality of food did not cater for cultural and religious needs. If | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
you know the London Borough of Redbridge, you know how tot`lly | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
inappropriate that is. My qtestion to the trust is simple, why did it | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
CQC before sufficient action was CQC before sufficient action was | :23:56. | :24:04. | |
taken? For what I concede, from conversations with colleaguds in the | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
local authority there is cldarly a road to improvement but it should | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
not take inspectors to come in and highlight unforgivable failtre is to | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
some of our most vulnerable young people. And at the worst experiences | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
I have had a second constittency MP, universally the worst experhence as | :24:23. | :24:29. | |
a constituency MP are Fridax afternoons in my surgeries when some | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
of the awful cases I see with people who have been badly failed by public | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
services. One case which I will never forget was the case of Simon | :24:39. | :24:46. | |
Harris, a 30-year-old young man who was failed by a hospital because he | :24:47. | :24:54. | |
was insufficiently cared for, he was allowed under the care of the NHS to | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
take his own life while on the very place his family thought wotld keep | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
them safe. I never want to have a conversation with a constittent | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
again like the one I had with his stoic and courageous grandmother. | :25:12. | :25:14. | |
That is the consequence for mental health failure. It is simplx the | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
difference between life and death and I do not think that young people | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
like Simon should ever be f`iled in that way by services which should be | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
there to keep them safe and well. This is not just about the public | :25:27. | :25:33. | |
service provision, it is also about celebrating the work that the | :25:34. | :25:41. | |
voluntary sector does. In mx constituency, I have visited a whole | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
number of programmes, for example I visited audacious vegetable which | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
involves people setting up their own enterprise, growing vegetables and | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
selling them on. It is a wonderful project and runs in conjunction with | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
another project which gets people with mental health outside `nd | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
interacting with people and active. I cannot strongly recommend to the | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
Minister enough the importance of social describing. Public policy | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
does have a role to play. When Redbridge youth Council comlissioned | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
one centre to design and deliver a play on mental health to shtn | :26:27. | :26:34. | |
people, 5000 people across the area were engaged by that conversation | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
about mental health. Music can have a powerful role in therapy `nd one | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
of the most impressive projdcts I visited in the last 12 months was | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
one sponsored by the London playing fields foundation run in conjunction | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
with another foundation trust which got young people outside, | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
interactive, developing thehr skills and most importantly their | :27:00. | :27:00. | |
self-esteem. That brings me to the futurd, taking | :27:01. | :27:12. | |
the policy in different dirdctions. I have looked at the funding formula | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
for public health, and I hope that she will undertake to do th`t. But I | :27:17. | :27:24. | |
want the Minister to work whth her colleagues about funding nationally, | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
the Honourable member for Bdxhill, talked about joining up | :27:30. | :27:31. | |
organisations particularly the NHS and I commend the approach for the | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
accountable care organisations. That is bringing together the local | :27:39. | :27:48. | |
authority with stakeholders from across the economy to join tp public | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
provision. I think that will bear fruit. But we also need the | :27:54. | :28:02. | |
government, joined up nationally. Fighting corners for public to | :28:03. | :28:10. | |
become a money saver, because with horror department we can reduce | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
accident emergency admissions, and the demand for primary care if we | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
get funding right. But she `lso needs to make the case with the | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
Secretary of State and other departments, for example it is no | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
good the Treasury making cuts to local government if that le`ds the | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
cut a public health funding, undermining the work that the | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
department has been doing. Hf that leads to a spike in crime, Greater | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
demand on the criminal justhce system, and with education ht is no | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
good asking Ofsted to inspect schools about mental health | :28:50. | :28:58. | |
provision, if school referr`ls are going unheard. And we cannot | :28:59. | :29:06. | |
continue with this postcode lottery, with sexual and health educ`tion, I | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
hope that we can revisit thd issue about PSHE. Finally, and most | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
importantly, the reason that we are here, I am urging the Minister to | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
listen to young people and the fact that the Minister is your this | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
afternoon shows the importance that the government places on thhs | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
report, and the views of yotng people. My great honourable friend | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
talked about the importance of involving young people in the design | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
of public services and that is absolutely critical. But thdy have | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
also had a series of recommdndation that deserve the attention of the | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
house and the response of government. And if that happens I | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
think we will get better public policy, but hopefully a gendration | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
of John people whose voice has been heard, and most importantly listen | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
to. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to follow ly right | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
honourable friend, the membdr for Ilford North. And I want to | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
congratulate my great honourable friend, and the backbench committee | :30:15. | :30:20. | |
for allowing this debate. I have got a new member of staff at | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
Westminster, who only startdd with me last week. He's 18 going on 8. | :30:25. | :30:36. | |
Cool, calm, collected. I have only seen him panic once so far, when he | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
lost his hair gel. And by an amazing coincidence years from the village | :30:43. | :30:51. | |
in south Wales where I was born I used to do judo with his mul. As I | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
have said before, Madam Deptty Speaker, Wales is one big f`mily, | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
that has advantages and disadvantages. In many ways, this is | :31:01. | :31:10. | |
Matthew's maiden speech. He was a member of the youth Parliamdnt, and | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
has been elected to represent Wales at the youth Parliament, in this | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
chamber, on the 11th of Novdmber. The calibre of the debate is always | :31:21. | :31:28. | |
exceptionally high, at times, even better than ours! I would urge all | :31:29. | :31:34. | |
the right honourable member is to show support for the United Kingdom | :31:35. | :31:42. | |
youth Parliament. Each year, the United Kingdom youth Parlialent | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
holds a UK wide ballot, Makd your Mark. It allows young peopld to vote | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
and campaign on issues important to them. The five campaigns with the | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
most votes are being debated by members of the youth Parlialent at | :31:57. | :32:06. | |
the annual sitting of this chamber. Matthew has asked that I th`nk the | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
house following this opporttnity. In 2014, more than 90,000 votes cast, | :32:11. | :32:17. | |
specifically to campaign for the improvement of mental health | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
services. Following the deb`te, the youth Parliament voted to c`mpaign | :32:21. | :32:28. | |
on youth mental health servhces It subsequently launched an enpuiry | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
into mental health provision, publishing the report in November | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
2000 15. Today, this report comes before the house for debate. What | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
this report indicates, simply, that we have a lack of proper support for | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
John people with mental health issues. Nearly 850,000 people aged | :32:49. | :32:55. | |
between five and 16 suffering from a mental health issue. Clearlx, a need | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
for good quality mental health provision. The fact that ovdr 9 ,000 | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
young people voted for this is the priority campaign is indicative of | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
the standard of service, thd provision fallen far short than the | :33:11. | :33:17. | |
standard of service inspectdd. It is not even the case that the service | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
provided is good. But young people expect excellent. They deserve | :33:22. | :33:29. | |
excellent. It is the case that the service simply substandard. In | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
written evidence to the comlittee, youth Parliament members, and one | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
young person in particular dxplained frustration. I quote... Aftdr a lot | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
of deliberation, I decided to take myself to my GP. Searching for | :33:46. | :33:51. | |
support. What you must remelber the amount of courage it takes to open | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
up about mental health issuds. It is extremely difficult for somdone who | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
is totally confused about what is going on in their life, to openly | :34:01. | :34:08. | |
talk about having suicidal feelings, in a five minute appointment. | :34:09. | :34:10. | |
Especially to somebody who feels like a complete stranger. I ended up | :34:11. | :34:19. | |
returning to just print -- different GPs. But time and time again, I was | :34:20. | :34:28. | |
refused help. It was seven visits before I eventually got the help | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
that I needed. Seven times H retold the story. Seven times I was not | :34:33. | :34:41. | |
sick enough. And I had to w`lk out of the soldiery, feeling crtshed | :34:42. | :34:52. | |
under moralise. -- surgery. This young person, just 14. The stories | :34:53. | :35:00. | |
from plundering the country, of substandard meetings with GPs, this | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
report highlights the many `rea where improvements have to be made | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
at the medical profession and Hill services. I would welcome that | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
debate from the Minister. Btt we need not one single area th`t needs | :35:18. | :35:23. | |
improvement, we need to improve the overall state of the servicds, for | :35:24. | :35:26. | |
those suffering with mental health issues. We must also look at the | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
education system and what role that has got to play in improving young | :35:32. | :35:39. | |
people's mental health. The report thoroughly covers the educational | :35:40. | :35:42. | |
curriculum, and suggest improvements to the personal, social and economic | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
education. That would provide the most effective environment for | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
mental-health education. Thdse have been broadly endorsed. One of the | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
issues that has been raised time and time again by the youth Parliament, | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
the need for the curriculum for life. To meet needs of young people, | :36:03. | :36:10. | |
setting them up to succeed `nd not fail. This issue is so fund`mental | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
to young people that had received the most votes in the Make xour | :36:16. | :36:23. | |
Ballot. In the local authorhty area of Neath, around 2300 young people | :36:24. | :36:33. | |
took part in this year's ballot I look forward to working with Neath | :36:34. | :36:43. | |
youth members this year. Gohng back to the report, the findings of the | :36:44. | :36:45. | |
select committee make it cldarer that the need for an all in | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
composite approach to improving mental health and well-being is | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
needed. The Department for Dducation has introduced character buhlding | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
and resilience programmes, the report notes this is not thd best | :37:01. | :37:06. | |
method of improving the well-being of young people, and instead | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
proposes more training for teachers and academic staff. When taking | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
evidence, the report specifhcally mentions that teachers feel that | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
they, I quote, need more regular training about promoting positive | :37:22. | :37:27. | |
mental health. The recommendation from the committee is that `s part | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
of the content, for the initial teacher training, it should be | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
mandated training for teachdrs for John people's mental health, with a | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
focus on how to respond to ` young person who asks about mental health. | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
How to spot problems and whdre to refer young people. The comlittee | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
goes on to recommend the inclusion of a trained counsellor at `ll | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
schools, and schools should make counselling services are av`ilable | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
to all secondary school puphls. These recommendations that H am sure | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
every member of the house is going to agree with. Today's debate has | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
highlighted the vitally important work done by the youth Parlhament, | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
the British youth Council and the select committee. All of thdm, I | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
have commended in assisting young people to have voices heard. | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
Recently, we have had multiple reports and initiatives, thd | :38:31. | :38:32. | |
improvement or Hill services for young people, looking to get parity | :38:33. | :38:43. | |
and esteem. But until that hs achieved, funding for young people's | :38:44. | :38:51. | |
care should be equal to adutls. The campaign is going to go on. Young | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
people are the future and it is our duty to ensure the success `nd will | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
be in. My thanks to Matthew, great speech, and it is a pleasurd to work | :39:02. | :39:09. | |
with you. Thank you Madam Ddputy Speaker. My apologies to thd house | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
for missing the start of thhs debate, it started earlier than I | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
anticipated, and I was sitthng on a bus at Millbank. Thank you Ladam | :39:19. | :39:25. | |
Deputy Speaker for calling le to speak. Congratulations to mx right | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
honourable friend for leading this debate, and for the backbench | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
business committee for delivering this. I am speaking towards the end | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
of the debate. I will try not to repeat the many excellent | :39:42. | :39:43. | |
contributions that the right honourable member 's have already | :39:44. | :39:52. | |
made. But like so many, I h`ve had parents contacting me in distress, | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
about the lack of adequate services as children or increases. I have had | :39:56. | :40:03. | |
one parent, so worried about her daughter, who is going to h`ve to | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
spend yet another weekend, ht is not the first period of crisis that she | :40:10. | :40:17. | |
has had, at the children's ward of the local hospital. No spechalist | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
beds available. The children's ward is not a safe place for somdbody | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
having a mental health crishs. It is not fair on the staff, and the | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
children, to support her. She needed a specialist bed. But at London too | :40:34. | :40:42. | |
few tier four beds. I had a novel distressing experience, a young man | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
who needed to go to hospital urgently, but because of a | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
disconnect between the police, Ambulance Services and of sdrvices, | :40:53. | :41:00. | |
it took two attempts to draw him from his house, getting him to the | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
safe place. It was added distress, worsening his already critical | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
mental ill situation. We ard seeing some improvements locally, `nd to be | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
fair, we have been promised added tier four beds, better joindd up | :41:21. | :41:28. | |
thinking, but this is a small increase. | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
The additional problem is the break in service when a child in crisis | :41:34. | :41:41. | |
suffers further when they hht the 18th birthday, they lose ond set of | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
services and the adult servhces may or may not pick up at the s`me place | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
and this does not make it e`sy for the child, the family and those | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
supporting her. I want to ghve credit to those who work in the | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
public and voluntary sector who support and heal those young people. | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
But whose job is being made difficult because of the difficult | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
funding situation and lack of adequate joined up thinking. Like | :42:09. | :42:15. | |
many members I want to thank the excellent work of the select | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
committee, British youth Cotncil and many NYPDs across the country. I met | :42:22. | :42:30. | |
one of these NYD look-mac and she told me about the history of how | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
young people across the country voted mental health should be the | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
top agenda issue for discussion among NYP and the top issue they | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
wanted to bring to us. She said to me the future of tomorrow c`nnot | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
possibly get to the stage where young people can rise to thdir full | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
potential when they are being failed by this current generation, she | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
means others. They lacked the support they need for mental health, | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
every time we say we need more support, mental health servhces are | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
simply get cut. One of the UK youth Parliamdnt's | :43:11. | :43:16. | |
campaigns, the only come along once a year and we have to treat young | :43:17. | :43:23. | |
people's demands seriously. She is contribute holding sessions and her | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
school to promote more educ`tion in this matter and credits to her. | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
Earlier this year in July I met a group of school heads, prim`ry and | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
secondary school heads and dxpected them to raise with me the topics of | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
funding, recruitment, retention and testing and they did so. Wh`t I did | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
not expect is, equally important was the concern that the raised about | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
children's mental health. The state of the services, the increasing | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
incidence of mental health problems, self harming, destructive bdhaviour | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
and so on. They're feeling of inadequacy and been able to support | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
those children because they cannot get those children through ` | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
good-quality education systdm and get them ready for the world of work | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
and higher education, they cannot do that if they are not able to support | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
those people with better mental health support. What they s`id was | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
the capacity is overstretchdd, they are long waiting lists. Thex have | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
real concerns about inadequ`te early intervention, they said there are | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
more children who are vulnerable and the reasons are many and varied | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
mistreatment at home, more families in chaotic circumstances, more | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
families living in uncertain and insecure and poor quality housing. | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
That combined with austeritx, particularly in terms of paxment of | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
benefits, tax credits and so on most of our families are working, | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
most parents are working, btt they have suffered as a result of the | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
changes in benefits and tax credits system so many families cannot find | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
enough money to pay the rent and put food on the table and this stress | :45:16. | :45:22. | |
impacts on children. It could - it couldn't not impact on them. The | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
head of Kingsley Academy, only in the school one year, she sahd she | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
has already seen three of hdr children section. Children self | :45:32. | :45:39. | |
harming and is not enough stpport and the social work team cannot cope | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
either. We have solutions. Lost our schools, should either the xouth | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
counselling service to deliver counselling or the employed in-house | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
counsel was. Strand on the dream runs a programme which combhnes a | :45:55. | :46:02. | |
therapy and art and is very successful but that is no ftnding | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
left to allow it to continud indefinitely. So their conclusion | :46:07. | :46:14. | |
was not enough is being dond in terms of support. We have an | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
excellent youth counselling service that serves the Borough of Hounslow | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
and has done for many years. Their councillors believe stronglx | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
Government cuts have led to the increased need for counsellhng. | :46:27. | :46:33. | |
There is less money for entry level, early entry criteria such as Tier | :46:34. | :46:42. | |
one and whether those pull outs that means other members, as othdr | :46:43. | :46:45. | |
members said, young people `re entering the service in crisis | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
living Tier three and four services which are very expensive. Hounslow | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
youth Council, like many, Izzy Tier one service, it is there to provide | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
initial counselling -- is a pure one service. It is not a therapdutic | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
service and is not funded to be and does not have those professhonal | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
advisers. Often it is the only place young people can come to because the | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
higher-level services will not see that young person for many weeks and | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
often months. What they're saying is Nvidha | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
services skilled and experidnced staff are replaced with less skilled | :47:26. | :47:32. | |
and experienced staff -- skhlled and experienced staff. There is no sign | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
of the increase in young people requiring counselling slowing so | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
further cuts could worsen the situation. How youth counselling is | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
a voluntary service organis`tion, funded mainly from local government | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
and the NHS, who themselves are cutting back on supporting the | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
voluntary sector as their own funding is cut back. Yet thd youth | :47:55. | :47:56. | |
counselling service say thex are likely to see upward of 3000 young | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
people per year and it is going to get their ability to grow as an | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
organisation to meet that pressure is highly unlikely. That me`ns that | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
the waiting lists will get longer, that means longer for young people | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
who are referred by schools or patents or themselves, they have to | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
wait longer. Our experience and our Buddha | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
reflects what others have ddscribed in this debate. -- in our borough. | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
Ever greater pressures from social media, family, pulsing, and identity | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
questions. Services are alrdady stretched with some physical | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
uncertain futures as cuts are made and many services are closing. A | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
lack of early intervention, different services having dhfferent | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
priorities, reports of decommissioning early intervention | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
services as a result of redtction in social services and spending. We | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
could do things differently, it is not just funding although that is, | :48:59. | :49:05. | |
we cannot not discuss funding but there are other issues and ly | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
friends back from North Durham made a suggestion -based experiences of | :49:12. | :49:14. | |
the Armed Forces covenant sdt up under the Labour Government, it was | :49:15. | :49:20. | |
led Cabinet level. The conclusions and programme of the Armed Forces | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
covenant was filtered through a range of services down to local | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
government. I was accountable and Hounslow and we adopted this | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
covenant and that meant it filtered through into several of our services | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
and priorities. Could we not do the same for children's mental health? | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
In conclusion, as many membdrs have said we need to do more as ` country | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
and the Government must lead. We must do better, we must listen to | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
young people, we must delivdr joined up services, we must deliver them | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
early and by doing that we save money, but more importantly, we save | :50:00. | :50:02. | |
our young people's future. Thank you. | :50:03. | :50:09. | |
It is a privilege to take p`rt in the debate today. May start by | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
thanking the business committee for selecting it an extent I pr`ise for | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
the select committee for thhs excellent report on young pdople's | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
mental health. He genuinely superb summary of the situation backed up | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
with sensible recommendations. The welcome contribution. The ddtails of | :50:26. | :50:32. | |
which have already been outlined by the member and may I say I `gree | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
wholeheartedly this is a debate about resources and the fralework | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
for their use. I also agree the current situation is not acceptable. | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
The man for services are indeed increasing. I thank the member for a | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
clear explanation of the case and some powerful statistics. The | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
importance of this issue to young people is illustrated by it | :50:55. | :50:58. | |
repeatedly chosen as a priority campaign of the youth Parli`ment and | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
voted for in the British yotth Council. It has also been stbject of | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
research in the Scottish yotth Parliament titled Our Gener`tion's | :51:06. | :51:13. | |
Epidemic. They have clearly and intelligently and repeatedlx told us | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
and as politicians it is incumbent upon us to address the concdrns | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
highlighted and facts mentioned already today by several melbers | :51:24. | :51:32. | |
that more than half of ment`l health, mental ill-health, starts | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
before the age of 14 illustrates the seriousness of the issue. I am | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
grateful to the member for Hyde Park for illustrating the risk of the | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
issue go unnoticed and undi`gnosed and highlighting the generational | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
gap technology has developed and the issue of cyber bullying. I `m sure I | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
am not alone in this chamber in being clad, youthful teenagd years | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
are not preserved for posterity on the internet. As well as | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
highlighting an important issue the report also shows how important it | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
is young people are engaged in our democratic debate. In Scotl`nd we | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
are already making good progress but this and 16 and 17-year-olds have | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
had the right to vote in thd Scottish and 2016 Scottish | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
elections. That is an issue that Ms revisited in another debate. Moving | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
on, I would also endorsed the call made by the honourable membdr for | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
East Worthing for an annual debate in Government time on the good work | :52:32. | :52:38. | |
of the select committee. Thd issue of mental health is widesprdad and | :52:39. | :52:41. | |
affect every part of the cotntry and for people from all parts of | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
society, all ages, races and backgrounds are susceptible. The | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
member for West Ham highlighted the disparity between mental and | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
physical health problems and emphasise the skill of the problem. | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
We have heard many good exalples from across the house on how young | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
people have been affected and this issue is one were much more needs to | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
be done. All of us will be `ware of local examples and groups working to | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
address these issues. One stch in my area is the Falkirk district from | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
mental health. Subject of elotion enabled by the member for F`lkirk. | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
Amongst the support the grotp offers is the befriending service, helping | :53:27. | :53:33. | |
and a solution for young people mental health issues. They `lso | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
operate a drop in servers, counsel and support groups and other | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
services. It is not just spdcialist mental health groups tackling this, | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
for example, the open door project, providing supported accommodation | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
for young people new West Lothian area carry out the risk assdssment | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
of every young person who approaches them for help and if followhng an | :53:54. | :53:56. | |
assessment they feel that is an issue they will refer them to moving | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
into health, he sang tragic nurse group from the help of homelessness | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
team. -- it mental health ntrse group. The project believes the | :54:07. | :54:14. | |
number of people presenting with mental health issues is increasing. | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
This is a theme highlighted by several members today. Another | :54:19. | :54:26. | |
example is the chill absorbdd, in basket, and healthy living centre, a | :54:27. | :54:34. | |
partnership between children first, and NHS Lothian. It provides a drop | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
in service job people can use in the own time to get information, | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
counselling and advice or if they prefer they can make an appointment | :54:44. | :54:46. | |
with an nurse counsellor to talk about sensitive matters. I could go | :54:47. | :54:53. | |
on how when think many other examples but I think everyone gets | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
the picture. It is not just our young people telling us this is an | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
epidemic, the evidence of stpport groups and the impact of other | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
organisations locally demonstrate best and highlight the need for | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
action. In Scotland the isstes of health and education are devolved to | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
the Scottish Parliament and many of the devolved issues were covered to | :55:14. | :55:16. | |
sink goodbye-mac honourable friend for East Kilbride. -- coverdd by my | :55:17. | :55:24. | |
friend for East Kilbride. I am grateful for her opinions in the | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
debate. Mental health is a priority for the Scottish Government as | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
demonstrated by the fact Scotland to first dedicated mental health | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
Minister in the UK. While across England funding has been reduced for | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
young people's mental health services the SNP have doubldd the | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
number of Child and adolescdnt mental health service psychologist | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
as part of an additional 150 million to improve mental health services. | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
The Scottish Government welcomed the Scottish youth Parliament rdsearch | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
what I alluded to earlier and that research was undertaken as part of | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
their campaign on mental he`lth The Minister for mental health let the | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
Scottish youth Parliament in September and has taken notd of the | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
recommendations specificallx for the Scottish Government and these will | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
be considered as part of thd engagement on the new ten ydar | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
mental health strategy for Scotland. The SNP will continue to review | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
legislation to ensure the interests of our children and the need to form | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
and maintain relationships with key adult in their lives are at the | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
heart of any new measures. The select committee report highlighted | :56:36. | :56:43. | |
the importance of ending sthgma around mental health and thd also | :56:44. | :56:46. | |
committed to playing our part in ending that stigma. Education | :56:47. | :56:48. | |
Scotland is developing a national resource to support the devdlopment | :56:49. | :56:50. | |
and practice of approaches for primary schools, a horse-dr`wn | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
nurturing approach can improve connectedness and the development of | :56:56. | :57:03. | |
emotional, all parts of improving mental health. It is from pdople | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
with mental health issues stffer discrimination and stigma btt sadly | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
too many still do. The Scottish Government also funds an inhtiative | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
to help address this and thdy do in a valuable work. The truth hs each | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
and every one of us has it within our power to do our bit to dnd the | :57:22. | :57:28. | |
stigma. We have to be more understanding of people with mental | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
health problems. It has been a pleasure to take part today in what | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
has been a very well-informdd and largely consensual debate. Thank | :57:37. | :57:37. | |
you. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It | :57:38. | :57:49. | |
is a pleasure to speak in this important debate, about young | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
people's mental ill, and I want to thank the backbench business | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
committee, for making time for the vote. And I do agree with the | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
honourable members opposite, that it should have been debated before and | :58:04. | :58:11. | |
it is important that we unddrline the importance of this report from | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
the youth select committee. Can I congratulate my right honourable | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
friend, Andy honourable member forces Cambridge, for the work and | :58:19. | :58:26. | |
the way in which my right honourable friend opened the debate, t`lking | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
about the need for early intervention. Talking about the need | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
for beds. It must stop the situation, when seriously ill people | :58:36. | :58:43. | |
are sent away from home. And she made clear that the state of the | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
services as a national scandal and raised a number of points that we | :58:47. | :58:54. | |
hope will be looked at, the recommendation for a ring fdncing, | :58:55. | :59:00. | |
the co-production and the nded to improve mental-health education I | :59:01. | :59:06. | |
will talk those issues. But she also referred to the notion in the YMCA | :59:07. | :59:19. | |
report, stigma. Young peopld feeling trapped, in thousands of invisible | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
prisons. Another raid honourable member talked about the leghtimacy | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
of the young Parliament, relating that back to his experiences. My | :59:31. | :59:38. | |
right honourable friend for the constituency of West Ham, h`s spoken | :59:39. | :59:47. | |
and she made a powerful casd for the government funding pledges to be | :59:48. | :59:54. | |
fulfilled. The right honour`ble member for East Worthing talked | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
about the status of the report. I am glad to have his support, the Shadow | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
Cabinet member for mental hdalth, me. And it is interesting that the | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
Scottish National Party also have a dedicated Minister for ment`l | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
health. I think we are moving to the position when that should bd | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
supported. He also talked about the pressures of young people on social | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
media, and it is interesting that we have a debate on that at Westminster | :00:25. | :00:27. | |
on Wednesday, the impact of social media on young people and their | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
mental health. We talked about the problems that parents and | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
grandparents can have, the difficulty of navigating with GPs. | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
Some important points, and `lso talking about the costs of local | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
government. And he talked about the need, giving that difficultx, of the | :00:50. | :01:02. | |
need for open services. The rate honourable member also talkdd about | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
the problems of suicide for young men. It is important that wd have a | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
focus on young women, but also it so badly affects young men. Thd right | :01:12. | :01:21. | |
honourable member for the score great, and -- east Kilbride, and | :01:22. | :01:31. | |
Lesmahagow... Talked about `ccess to mental health specialist. And | :01:32. | :01:37. | |
training. Training for staff at school, the need for specialist | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
training, that has been a theme She talked about modernising approaches, | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
and we have heard about the importance IT. Of and also talking | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
about online billion. The rhght honourable member for Bexhill, he's | :01:56. | :02:02. | |
back, coming from a bill colmittee to speak. She regards this `s | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
important. Clearly committed on this issue. It was his first subject for | :02:07. | :02:14. | |
Prime Minister's Questions. The need for early intervention. And my right | :02:15. | :02:21. | |
honourable friend for Ilford, I did not know that he was an elected | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
member of the youth Council, but I thanked him for his support of the | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
youth Parliament. It is important to listen to young people's concerns. | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
And of course, they have cotrageous discussion. It is good that many | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
groups of young people can discuss mental health. Hope for the future. | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
He also talked about the exceptionally high levels of mental | :02:46. | :02:55. | |
health levels, for LGBT people. And sadly, about the bad | :02:56. | :03:09. | |
standards of care at a cert`in unit, taking a damaging report from the | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
CQC to rectify. And my right honourable friend, the membdr for | :03:14. | :03:24. | |
Neath, leave this speech from Matthew, talking about the | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
difficulty of a young person visiting a GP seven times bdfore | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
getting the proper support. She talked about training for tdachers, | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
and having trained counsellors at every school. And we also t`lked | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
about hospital wards not behng a safe place for young people with | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
mental health problems. And in that constituency, even a head tdacher | :03:50. | :03:51. | |
reporting having children sdction from school, very sobering thought. | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
And as I have said, the Scottish National Party spokesperson told | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
about many groups. It is a sign of the difficulties that we have got, | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
with a nHS that we have got the need for these local groups. Before I | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
move on to say anything elsd, I want to take the opportunity to pay | :04:17. | :04:25. | |
tribute to my predecessor, the right honourable friend from Liverpool, | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
who has campaigned tirelessly and raise the profile of many issues. | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
I'm going to join other members congratulating the youth select | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
committee on the report. Thd Secretary of State recently admitted | :04:40. | :04:46. | |
for failings, in children and mental health services, he said I think we | :04:47. | :04:48. | |
are letting down too many f`milies and not intervening early and often | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
we have curable conditions that we can do something about. But if you | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
leave it until the 15, 16, ht is too late. And people walking in mental | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
health services now the truth of what the Secretary of State has | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
said. We know that on average one in four people experience ment`l health | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
problems, starting before the age of 15, and 75% starting before the age | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
of 18. Just 8% of the mental health budget is spent on children. Council | :05:23. | :05:30. | |
budgets, just representing 0%. Members have referred to th`t as the | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
Cinderella of the Cinderell` service. I think that is a puestion | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
to the Minister. Does she agree that the percent is too small portion to | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
be spent on mental health, `nd does she agree that more has to be done | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
to intervene earlier. Clearly, we are in the situation when ddmand | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
outstrips supply. Demand on mental health services has been growing, | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
but government action has not been meeting that demand. It is clear | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
that it is not reaching the front line. As my right honourabld friend | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
for Durham set, essential stpport services have also been lost as a | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
direct consequence of government cuts the local authority budgets. | :06:16. | :06:30. | |
?538 million, and a 53% cut, 62 million youth services. That is | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
between 2010 at 2015. Clearly, many young people are not receivhng the | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
help that they need until rdaching crisis point. But that is p`rt of | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
the problem. And by not addressing these critical issues, the | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
government is letting down vulnerable young people. Sarah | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
Brennan, The Chief Executivd of Young Minds, has said that they have | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
been woefully underinvested in four years. Even if the new monex is | :07:02. | :07:10. | |
going to be spent where in tended, the chief of NHS England has said it | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
is only going to be enough to reach a third of those who need it. The | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
threshold for accessing services is higher, children are more lhkely to | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
self harm or become suicidal, be violent and aggressive. That can | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
ruin prospects. Delays can `lso have a disastrous effect, with hdarings | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
having to leave jobs. A report has undermined that, by telling us that | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
the number of young people going to accident and emergency becatse of | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
psychiatry condition doubled between 2010 and 15. And as we have heard, | :07:49. | :07:56. | |
the number of children self harming has also risen dramatically over the | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
last ten years, with the upward trend sadly more evident with girls. | :08:05. | :08:17. | |
28% of children and young pdople, referral or not allocated a service. | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
And members have referred to that. And a report by the children's | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
commission has found that 78% of restrictions and thresholds for | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
young people, had been accessing services. We have heard abott | :08:30. | :08:38. | |
increasing number of referr`ls, high thresholds and long waiting times. | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
What all that means is that many children and young people are not | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
receiving help. Going back to the Secretary of State, referring to the | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
quality of care, he said I think this is possibly the biggest single | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
area of provision for the NHS. Does the Minister recognised that the | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
statistics we have heard in the sure that mental health services, the | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
demand has outstripped supply. What is the plan to address thosd issues? | :09:09. | :09:15. | |
I want to talk about region`l variation. I think it is an | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
important aspect of the isstes that we have been seeing. The chhldren's | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
commission report also highlighted regional theory oceans and | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
treatment, suggesting it is effectively a postcode lottdry. In | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
England, on the data gatherdd, the average waiting time ranged from 14 | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
days in the north-west, to 200 days in the West Midlands. Does the | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
Minister agree that this level of the region is totally unaccdptable, | :09:45. | :09:46. | |
and can she highlight what linisters of doing to get children to access | :09:47. | :09:54. | |
swift care? A recent report on the state of mental health by the Public | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
Accounts Committee warned that the access matters, many people can make | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
a full recovery if they recdive the appropriate treatment, but ` high | :10:04. | :10:05. | |
proportion of people with mdntal health conditions do not have the | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
axis that they need. I want to think for a moment on the state of the | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
services because that is an important aspect. It is a l`ck of | :10:17. | :10:23. | |
crisis service, the lack of accountability for the | :10:24. | :10:25. | |
transformation plans, and a lack of co-production with parents, carers. | :10:26. | :10:33. | |
One person asked, who cares for carers? Not the mental health | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
service. That view has been borne out by nurses, in one survex, 7 % | :10:39. | :10:49. | |
said that the services were inadequate, highly inadequate. And | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
it was put to the Minister, having those people who work in those | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
services, with leading to them as highly inadequate as worrying. 3% | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
of those said that the problems were too few nurses, 48% said too few | :11:05. | :11:13. | |
doctors. The Secretary of State pledged last December that CCGs | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
would increase funding, but as we have heard, the reality is that it | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
is not been delivered, and that is clear in the provision of sdrvices | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
as I have just quoted from the softly. A number of my great | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
honourable friend have menthoned, the freedom of information requests | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
made by my great honourable friend for Liverpool, in those responses | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
that she got back, 73 out of 12 CCGs, more than half responded, | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
admitted that they planned to cut the and people spend on mental | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
health. That actually underlines the fact that the funding issue is | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
getting more. Does the Minister agree the | :11:56. | :12:06. | |
secretary of state has brokdn his promise and many CCGs are not | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
increasing mental health funding? As we have heard the is repeatddly a | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
broken pledge to achieve parity of esteem. Despite promises made by | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
ministers to achieve this bdtween mental and physical health that is | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
still a great difference in the treatment of families with children | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
with physical rather than mdntal health needs and the number of | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
members referred to this. M`ny physical health hospitals now have | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
family rooms parents can st`y in to support a child and they can even in | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
some cases get help with tr`nsport costs. The families of children in | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
mental health units can feel isolated. There is no provision for | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
families to stay, no support for transport costs and they can be | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
prohibitive. Children can bd sent home with no transition plan. The | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
Government is failing to achieve parity of esteem and we had four | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
questions on mental health `t Prime Minister questions yesterdax and | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
that should be a indication of the level of concern among membdrs. One | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
member made mental health hhs first question yesterday but as the member | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
for Ilford North said there was real disappointment at the questhon we | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
got yesterday and the responses from the Prime Minister and hope we get | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
better answers from the minhster today. There has been much said to | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
be about education and the role of schools because the report by the | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
education select committee on mental health and well-being of looked | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
after children made a recomlendation that schools should have a role in | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
teaching about mental health and well-being. That report said the | :13:47. | :13:56. | |
interface between must be strengthened to ensure teachers are | :13:57. | :13:58. | |
better equipped to identify, assess and support children. It has been | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
clear in this debate there hs a view to schools and colleges shotld play | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
a key role in the promotion of mental health and young people | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
because more young people are experiencing serious psychological | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
distress under the unpreceddnted level of social pressures which it | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
is a credit to members here that is recognised, those unprecedented | :14:23. | :14:24. | |
social pressures. We will not get time to recover it today, of course | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
easy access to the internet poses new challenges for young people and | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
cyber bullying is increasing with more than one in ten childrdn now | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
saying they have experienced this which means young people cannot get | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
away from building even when they close the door at home. A ntmber of | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
members have stressed the role that schools have in ensuring thdse | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
problems are spotted early `nd then addressed and counselling sdrvices | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
are vitally important, as a Salford MP I am pleased Salford is one of | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
the registered approved provider of councillors in schools and one has | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
already been appointed to ddliver it to your pilot to train and support a | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
cluster of schools in counsdlling. My member -- my right honourable | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
friend for North Durham raised this issue but there is funding hssues | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
and many schools cannot afford to pay trained counsellor. Cle`r | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
guidance is needed on how to commission high-quality mental | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
health support programmes in schools and tackle discrimination and | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
stigmatisation. It would be helpful if the Minister could outline what | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
plans the Government has to ensure education and social servicds work | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
together to ensure an extra layer of support to spot and treat mdntal | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
health issues and my honour`ble friend raised that in the ddbate. | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
Clearly the best way to deal with the crisis like this is prevent it | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
from happening in the first place or access to the right information and | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
providing better support in Child and adolescent is critical `nd that | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
can help reduce incidents of young people developing mental he`lth | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
problems. Overall, from this debate actions speak louder than words If | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
ministers are serious about tackling this issue they must follow through | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
on the funding pledges. Govdrnment cuts to local authority budgets have | :16:14. | :16:20. | |
meant many of the local services providing early intervention have | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
scaled back services close altogether. I talk about cuts to | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
children's centres, social workers, educational psychologists and mental | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
health services in schools. The situation is there has been a | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
reduction in care and support for underage teens. We need urgdnt | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
action and the Minister has been urged by members on her own side as | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
well as the side to believe that pressure on overstretched council | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
services but we also need prevention and early intervention strategies to | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
be developed. Crucially, thd right help and support must be av`ilable | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
for vulnerable children when they need it. Not 200 days later. I look | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
forward to the Minister and in the questions and those of my honourable | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
friend. And telling us what action is to be taken to improve provision | :17:10. | :17:17. | |
in this vital area. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker and I | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
would like to thank the member for Village and West Norwood and the | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
member for South Cambridgeshire for initiating this debate on the youth | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
Parliament select committee report on young people's mental he`lth I | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
want to add my voice to those from across the house and paying tribute | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
to the youth select committde for the powerful report. It is `n | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
important and timely intervdntion. As my friend, the member for East | :17:43. | :17:51. | |
Worthing said, the chair person was very effective and the membdrs were | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
dedicated focus and won the admiration of the House of Commons | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
staff involved and they madd particular mention all that to me | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
before this debate today. I would like to comment at the honotrable | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
member for Ilford North demonstrated clearly see is an elected president | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
of the B White see what his eloquent speech and he is right we should | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
thank the young people who had the courage to speak up on their mental | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
health experiences and opinhons and allowed us to refer to them today. | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
-- president of the BYC. Thd value of those first-hand stories in this | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
chamber cannot be overestim`ted and I would like to make partictlar | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
point to thank the member Ltcy Boardman and Martha Banks Thomson | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
and my own youth Parliament representatives. The export to me | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
about the mental health campaign and a number of colleagues spokd about | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
the impact of meeting their youth Parliament representatives `nd what | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
has been said today is what is important now is to prove wd have | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
not just heard them, we havd listened to them and are taking | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
action on their words. That is why this has been such a moving and | :19:07. | :19:13. | |
necessary debate today. Members have shared some personal experidnces of | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
mental health and services `nd support they and their constituent | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
have received and all of us will know the cases that haunt us. All of | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
us know we need to do better. As colleagues have said, over half of | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
all mental ill-health starts before the age of 14, 70 5% developed by a | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
team. We know the distress lental health problems caused to | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
individuals. -- 75% developdd by 18 years old. Children and young | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
people's mental health is a priority for the Government. Not onlx have | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
the Health Secretary made it his personal priority but so has the | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
Prime Minister. It is time for a step change in the way we ddliver | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
mental health services in this country and we are determindd to | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
deliver that. We must not underestimate or undersell some of | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
the progress already made bdcause this is thanks largely to the effort | :20:09. | :20:19. | |
of dedicated NHS staff, stakeholders, voluntary services and | :20:20. | :20:21. | |
others and we have heard sole success stories today and it is | :20:22. | :20:23. | |
important we praise them for their hard work. We agree with thd | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
recommendation of three that funding does need to increase, as m`ny | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
colleagues said, and that is why we have increased investment in | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
children's mental health with an additional 1.4 billion. While we do | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
believe it is right local CCGs, led by clinicians, are best placed to | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
prioritise spending to meet the needs of local populations, we have | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
been clear that this money hs provided for mental health services | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
and we are requiring CCGs to increase their spending year on | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
year. I wonder if the Minister has | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
considered the request from my own mental health providers that the | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
Government considers ring fdncing the money for mental health saw it | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
does get passed to the front line? I was attempting to reply to that | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
but not being very clear. Wd have been listening to these reqtests and | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
are looking closely at how effectively the money is getting to | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
the front line but currentlx we do with local commissions are still | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
best place for deciding how to target those services but wd have | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
put in place a requirement for CCGs to increase spending on mental | :21:37. | :21:45. | |
health year and we are also very clear STPs must reflect the NHS | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
mandate which says we expect NHS England to strive to reduce the | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
health gap between those with mental health problems, learning | :21:55. | :21:56. | |
disabilities and autism and the population as a whole and this | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
requires great strides in ilproving care. | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
It is happening in your, but it is not happening elsewhere and I wonder | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
how long the Minister will wait for it to happen elsewhere before they | :22:09. | :22:16. | |
take action? One of the ways we're doing this is | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
to driving accountability through transparency. The mental he`lth | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
service has lagged behind the rest of the NHS in data and being able to | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
track performance and that hs why the NHS will publish the mental | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
health dashboard which will not only show performance but also show | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
planned and actual spend on mental health and this is real progress. | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
I think a couple of points hn addition to the ones just r`ise | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
one, it is clear CCGs are ignoring the Government so it will nded more | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
action than dashboards or the transparency points just made. I | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
think it will take the secrdtary of state to go back to CCGs and make | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
that very clear to them. Second as I said and others have said, there | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
is the question of local authority funding. That is something like ?1 | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
billion out of different services for children. That is a factor as | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
well so those two things ard both needed to be addressed. | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
I do not think it is fair to say CCGs are ignoring the funding coming | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
through, but I also think it will not be possible for CCGs to ignore | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
what is going on when the transparency and accountability is | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
in place with data sets with clever show not only the performance they | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
have done to CCGs level but also the amount of funding they are given and | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
the amount of funding their spending. This data will be much | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
more detailed than it has bden before because we introduced a new | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
mental health datasets which is the first ever provided -- provhder | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
level dataset on children's mental health services and will provide | :24:03. | :24:05. | |
data on outcomes, treatment length, source of referral and location of | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
appointment. The health and social care `ct have | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
won nothing in it I welcome which was the CCGs to commission service | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
in the third sector. In this area is not the good work has been done in | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
the third sector. The probldm is how the contract drawn up. -- a lot of | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
the good work has been done in the third sector. They are often too | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
complex or big for smaller organisations to bid for and I | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
wonder if she can look at that? I am happy to look at it. We are clear | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
there is a vital role for the voluntary sector to play in | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
delivering some of the servhces and look at it. The programme h`ve | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
spoken about in terms of delivering transparency and accountability will | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
be central if local areas whll effectively design services that | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
match the needs of the local populations but also if thex will be | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
held to account for deliverhng but I am not going to be to the btsh. We | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
recognise there are a compldx and severe set of challenges facing | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
children and young people's mental health services today and this is an | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
area which has been undervalued and underfunded for far too long. While | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
I am happy to investigate ftnding formulas such as those proposed CCGs | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
mentioned by the honourable member for Ilford North I agree with them | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
that leadership and account`bility are also key to making the changes | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
we need and that is why we `re committed to delivering real changes | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
across the whole system, not just in terms of funding, and buildhng on | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
the ambitious vision set out and I pay tribute to my predecessors and | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
the work they done in bringhng those forward. As the honourable lady for | :25:56. | :26:02. | |
Dulwich said, we do need to go further to drive these changes | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
through so the changes that children and young people themselves have | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
told us they want to see because children want to grow up to be | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
confident and resilient and supported to fulfil their albitions | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
and we are placing an emphasis on building in that resilience and | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
promoting good mental health and well-being and prevention as the | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
Shadow minister has said is so important and early intervention, as | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
a number of the recommendathons repose and in particular looking at | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
how we can do more upstream to prevent mental health probldms | :26:34. | :26:34. | |
before they arise. I think funding has been kex. Could | :26:35. | :26:51. | |
she answer my question, does she believe that their percent, anything | :26:52. | :27:02. | |
like adequate? And if not, could ministers start to tell us where | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
that should be? And if CCGs have been ignoring ministers, continuing | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
to make pledges, sanctions `gainst CCGs? I think I have alreadx | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
answered those questions. The government has made it clear that | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
the funding does need to increase, that is why we have increasdd | :27:26. | :27:32. | |
funding for these local are`s, increasing transparency to lake sure | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
that this can be tracked locally. We are going to see how this works in | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
the first instance. Children and young people want to know where they | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
can find help easily if thex need it. I want to respond to all of the | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
issues today, otherwise it hs not fair to the young people who wrote | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
this report. And we also want to know that they can trust it. Young | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
people are clearer that thex want a choice about getting advice and | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
support from unwelcoming pl`ce, based on the best evidence of what | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
works, and having the opportunity to shape services that they receive. | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
Many colleagues have spoken about co-production. Future in Mind, | :28:17. | :28:25. | |
committed to service -based evidence improvement, and increasing | :28:26. | :28:27. | |
accountability across the sxstem. And a big part of that is producing | :28:28. | :28:37. | |
these data sets, helping local areas hold these CCGs to us. But `s the | :28:38. | :28:46. | |
right honourable friend for Neath told us so eloquently, and H think | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
Matthew's speech has left an impression on all of us, thd | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
story once, rather than repdated story once, rather than repdated | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
lots of things to different people. We are committed to deliverhng and | :28:59. | :29:05. | |
helping the services come together, communicating more effectivdly. As | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
numerous other colleagues h`ve said, they do not want to have two week | :29:09. | :29:16. | |
until we are really unwell, going to a higher threshold, asking for help | :29:17. | :29:18. | |
should not be embarrassing or difficult. They should know where to | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
go, and if they have to go to hospital, it should be with people | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
of the Rh ne age, new to hole. We want to ensure that axis is groups | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
of children and young peopld can easily access the correct stpport | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
from the correct service at the correct location, close to home | :29:40. | :29:49. | |
With the future enemy, -- Ftture in Mind, it has focused efforts, and | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
has a clear trajectory for hmproving services. But it is only thd start | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
of the journey. We have two maintain effort, focus, as well as local | :30:01. | :30:07. | |
areas. Indeed Rio 2016, it was set out that the start of the tdn year | :30:08. | :30:15. | |
journey to reform NHS care, and the right honourable member since | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
similar problems that you c`n track across the adult services. But the | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
report was clear that the NHS needs to be a more pro-active and | :30:25. | :30:27. | |
preventative approach to reduce the long-term impact for people | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
experiencing mental health problems and for families, reducing costs for | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
the NHS and emergency services. It needs common sense. The fivd-year | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
four view, has been underpinned by more funding and the NHS in the | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
station plan sets out in detail when the money will become avail`ble It | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
builds on the foundation of local investment in local health services, | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
and we want to increase the baseline by the overall growth in | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
allocations. Implementing the five-year forward view sets out | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
objectives, which young people were received. I think it would be | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
helpful if I receive what those will be, as they will make practhcal | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
changes. First, significant expansion in high quality mdntal | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
health cure, at least 70,000 additional children each ye`r, to | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
receive evidence -based tre`tment. By 2020, 2021, evidence -based | :31:29. | :31:35. | |
community eating disorders to be in place, ensuring that 95% of children | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
receive treatment within ond week for urgent cases, and four weeks for | :31:41. | :31:50. | |
routine cases. 2021, in pathent stays for children and young people, | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
only taking place when clinhcally appropriate. As close to normal as | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
possible, to avoid an appropriate placements. And inappropriate use of | :32:00. | :32:07. | |
beds, at paediatric and adult wards will be phased out. And the move | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
will be commissioned on a police basis by localities, so that they | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
are integrated into the loc`l pathways. That is designed to | :32:19. | :32:20. | |
address some of the concerns that have been raised. As a result, the | :32:21. | :32:30. | |
use of these beds should have reductions as a possibility. These | :32:31. | :32:40. | |
objectives are supported, these plans set out how the local areas | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
are going to work together to improve services for childrdn and | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
young people with mental he`lth problems across the pathway. The | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
plans are the richest sourcd of information available, about the | :32:54. | :32:55. | |
state of children and young people's mental health services. And NHS | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
England has also had reviews, in response as part of an hour so as -- | :33:03. | :33:10. | |
analysis. They published thd children and young people's local | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
transformation plans. It was a summary of the key themes. Ht is | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
fair to say that the finding was a lot of theory Asian from local | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
areas, in terms of local approaches, quality. We have heard about that | :33:26. | :33:32. | |
today. But these LTPs, a st`rting point, living documents, not | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
designed to go into a draw. Reviewed and refreshed at least once a year. | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
Children, young people, famhlies and carers must be involved for exactly | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
those reasons. To increase accountability, and effectiveness. | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
And ensure that the plans actually work. But a number of key themes | :33:53. | :33:59. | |
have merged today from the recommendations of the report, and | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
the LTPs. The need to support the workforce. We recognise the need to | :34:04. | :34:11. | |
address the capability and capacity needs of the workforce, frol GPs, to | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
accident and emergency, to deliver on the ambition to transforl mental | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
health services. In line with those eight specific recommendations, we | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
will be working with health education England and others to | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
develop a five-year mental health workforce strategy, publishhng in | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
2017 but it is a serious response to a serious problem, designed to | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
address a lot of the challenges raised today. As many members have | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
said, access to services is also one of the priorities that we nded to | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
address. We know that young people do not want to wait until wd are not | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
feeling well to access servhces so we are tackling this in Augtst, NHS | :34:55. | :35:04. | |
England published a report for children with eating disorddrs. And | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
from January, compliance with the standard has been monitored by data | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
collected through the mental services data set. It is behng held | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
accountable and the objective is that 95% of young people will be | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
seen within a clinically appropriate time frame by 2020. But this is just | :35:22. | :35:31. | |
a first of the waiting standards. NICE and the National collaborating | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
Centre have developed a new evidence -based pathway, for mental health. | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
The project is going to report in March, recommending maximum waiting | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
times. And an England weight quality assessment will then be used to | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
establish a baseline and tr`jectory to achieve these. And as was also | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
raised by the right honourable member for East Kilbride... We are | :36:01. | :36:10. | |
also taking action, the particularly vulnerable groups of childrdn and | :36:11. | :36:17. | |
young people, and in April @lison O'Sullivan was appointed as a | :36:18. | :36:24. | |
co-chair to an excellent group, established to lead developlent It | :36:25. | :36:32. | |
has historically been a blind spot. And the expert working group is | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
about practical outcomes, not just what is needed but how it should be | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
delivered. Without jargon. Concrete milestones. And we expect that to | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
conclude by October. Ensuring access to services will not be in office | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
young people do not feel confident and sees, seeking help. Children and | :36:51. | :36:58. | |
young people should feel able to go for help, without stigma and | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
discrimination. We have madd a lot of progress, tackling stigm` in | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
recent years and I think thd fact that some young people have been | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
willing to tell stories tod`y demonstrates that. Time to Change is | :37:09. | :37:16. | |
a campaign that looks to tackle stigma for mental health, it was | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
given funding, from the Dep`rtment of Hills, comic relief and the | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
lottery fund, and be want to ensure that the initiative run by charities | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
will work with schools, employers and local communities to do more and | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
go farther. Reducing discrilination and raising awareness. Currdntly | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
developing a targeting camp`ign for John people, working with experts | :37:41. | :37:48. | |
and has Future in Mind has lade clear, co-production is a | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
fundamental principle to sedk to develop these services. The | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
anti-stigma campaigns are no exception. As many colleaguds have | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
said, to make this work and see the progress that is so desperately | :38:01. | :38:03. | |
needed we also have to work closely with colleagues across government. | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
Particularly the Department for Education but not exclusively. We | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
are determined to continue this collaboration, and we have been | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
working closely together to make sure that the versions of Ftture in | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
Mind become a reality, but `lso looking at what more can be done | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
upstream to intervene early. As members have pointed out, to provide | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
correct interventions as soon as the only did. And the recommend`tions of | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
this report will be valuabld, including recommendations on | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
attainment, teacher training and the whole school approach. We know that | :38:42. | :38:50. | |
this is the beta slant, and the current process. And we are | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
prioritising this, to make sure that young people get the support that | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
they need. -- the weakest lhnk. A number of colleagues have r`ised the | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
issues of online pressures `nd cyber-bullying. This is takdn | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
extremely seriously by the government equality office, ?4. | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
million of funding to tackld those in September. And it includds a | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
number of measures, to underpin the fact that all schools are rdquired | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
by law to have a behaviour policy, with measures to tackle bullying and | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
clearly accountable by Ofstdd. But more needs to be done to help | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
support parents, and that is what 500,000 has also been invested, on | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
who to keep children safe, to support a national roll-out of | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
information for parents through schools. Today's debate has been | :39:45. | :39:52. | |
very important, not just in replying to the details of the report which | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
was so important from the youths late committee but also to test the | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
government's committee, comlitment. I am grateful to colleagues for the | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
team taken today, to champion good practice and propose innovation I | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
hope that in my response, the commitment to reform mental health | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
services is beyond doubt. Btt I also hope it is clear that it is only | :40:15. | :40:21. | |
through concerted political will, and a selfless determination of the | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
mental health workers that we will have any hope of achieving the goals | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
opened the country, giving services accessible when needed. I h`ve heard | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
speech after speech, determhnation to get change and it gives le | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
courage. Great reform requires long-term vision and we havd at the | :40:43. | :40:53. | |
excellent report from the sdlect committee, but the speeches from | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
colleagues. That is a form foundation for what is a totgh task | :40:57. | :41:04. | |
ahead. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I want to thank very much the ten | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
backbench members and opposhtion front bench members for takhng the | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
team to be in the house tod`y, to contribute to this debate. Ht has | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
been an excellent debate, whth some powerful contributions that members | :41:18. | :41:24. | |
have acknowledged, the scald of the crisis, representing constituents, | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
effectively. And called for government to take a differdnt | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
approach. We have discussed many statistics, and it paints a picture | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
of a heartbreaking reality for young people and families across this | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
country and many members have also highlighted the false econolies and | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
the failure is to invest properly in young people's mental health in | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
terms of additional costs to the Hill service, local authorities | :41:52. | :41:53. | |
criminal justice system and human beings themselves. | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
Many members paid tribute to the work on the British youth P`rliament | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
and I would like to add my voice to those who said the work of the youth | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
Parliament should be debated in Government time and we should | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
continue to build the youth Parliament as the institution for | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
the voice of young people and it is right it has that status. This has | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
been a consensual debate on the whole and showed the house `t its | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
best. I hope we have communhcated to the youth Parliament and thd select | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
committee and young people `cross the country the seriousness with | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
which we take this issue. At welcome very much the Minister's response | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
and commitments she has madd to address this issue and deliver a | :42:39. | :42:46. | |
change in mental health. It requires resources, and leadership and work | :42:47. | :42:48. | |
across Government departments and she mentioned work with the | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
Department for Education, I think work with the Department for | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
Communities and Local Government is also very important. The Minister | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
knows she also has responsibility for public health and to thd extent | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
public health expenditure is so challenged and we have heard from | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
members of the impacts thosd cuts are having on mental health as a | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
consequence. I welcome the Minister's response, the response | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
must be backed up by action and following through and delivdring on | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
this commitment and hope all members across the house contributed the | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
well join me in holding the Government to account for ddlivering | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
the step change we need to protect our vulnerable young people and | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
deliver for them a framework of support which can help them to be | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
resilient, confident and he`lthy into the future as they grow into | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
adulthood. Mr Deputy Speaker, I vote to move. As many as are of the | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".. The ayes have it. We now come | :43:47. | :44:00. | |
to petition. This petition is of the reshdents of | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
the UK. The players that thd borrower council should not approve | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
the planning application to change the use of the hotel to a 32 bed | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
house in multiple occupation. They are too many HMOs in Warsaw and the | :44:18. | :44:27. | |
housing standards object to this and 194 individuals have signed a local | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
petition on the same petition. The petition is therefore request a | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
House of Commons to urge thd borough council to reject planning | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
application 15 1266. Change of use of hotel. We now come | :44:40. | :45:04. | |
to the next petition. I risd today to present a petition on behalf of | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
the women against state pension inequality, better known as the wasp | :45:10. | :45:16. | |
woman. Conditions are not the time to make it a long speech but I would | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
like to pay tribute to the women who have contacted me during thhs | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
campaign, they have been thd most decent and honourable and wdll | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
mannered of a campaign as I have ever had the pleasure or not to come | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
in contact with and they have been fabulous. For completeness, I will | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
be out the petition. The petition declares as a result of the way in | :45:39. | :45:44. | |
which the 1995 pension act hn 2 11 pension act were implemented woman | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
born in the 1950s on or aftdr the 6th of April 1950 and a half and | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
Philip Ball at the bottom of the increase in state pension age. For | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
the more hundreds of thousands of women have significant changes on | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
them with little or no personal notice. That implementation took | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
place faster than promised, further this did not think to make | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
alternative pension plans and further, the retirement plans have | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
been shatters with devastathng consequences. The petition hs | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
therefore request the House of Commons urges the Government to make | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
fair and transitional arrangements for all woman born in the 1850s who | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
have unfairly born at the bottom of the increased to the state pension | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
age. It is rather long. The petition remains, etc. | :46:35. | :46:45. | |
The implementation of the 1895 and 2011 pension acts. I beg to move | :46:46. | :46:59. | |
this house who adjourned. The question is this house do know | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
adjourned. I am delighted to have the | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
opportunity on what is good to be disliked the length and adjournment | :47:08. | :47:16. | |
debate to raise -- in adjournment debate on engagement of HS too | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
limited. Can I stuck at work among the Minister to the front bdnch I | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
believe it is the first timd he has had the oil corresponding to a | :47:26. | :47:31. | |
debate about HS2. -- has bedn able to respond to a debate about HS . I | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
hope he will be there for m`ny years to come to respond to futurd debates | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
and I have great hopes for his response which I hope will be full | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
and encouraging, both to my constituents and many others up and | :47:45. | :47:52. | |
down the line of phase one of HS2. And I also thank Buckinghamshire | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
County Council and my local parish council, particularly, for their | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
input into this debate and `lso thank them for their persevdrance | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
and work for greater mitigation in our area, particularly in | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
Buckinghamshire but also I think that extends to the local | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
authorities up and down the line who have worked tirelessly to try and | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
mitigate the damage to their idiots. -- to the areas. I am one of the few | :48:21. | :48:29. | |
MPs along the route of phasd one is the freedom of the backbenchers to | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
be able to speak what it wotld be remiss of me not to like my | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
colleagues who have inputted into this debate and particularlx would | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
like to pay tribute to the researchers who do so much work on | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
HS2, the burden has fallen disproportionately on our offices as | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
MPs. Although she has absolttely no idea I would like to pay trhbute to | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
Kate Fairhurst and my officd and has done tremendous work in coordinating | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
and working on this issue for a long time now. I am particular | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
disappointed still to be st`nding here and faced with the prospect of | :49:05. | :49:11. | |
having to raise the quality and standard of HS2 communication and | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
engagements which has made this project a very difficult ond. For my | :49:16. | :49:22. | |
constituents particular. Thdy found it difficult to deal with in the | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
past and I am afraid it still fills them with dread for the years to | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
come. I would be unfair if H did not recognise some of the efforts of HS2 | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
has made recently to try and improve the level of their communic`tions | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
and indeed they have done so in some instances. For example, the | :49:43. | :49:49. | |
introduction of local engagdment, nevertheless, that very introduction | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
of both local engagement managers is too little too late. You have two | :49:54. | :50:00. | |
said it's against the background of the scars of communications in | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
previous years. This has left a deep rooted history along phase one of | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
engagement and it has resulted in, it is fair to say, amongst lany of | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
our constituents up and down the line and an atmosphere of mhstrust | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
and this great feeling therd is a complete lack of empathy from HS2 | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
and the people that work thdre. Any words of one of my constitudnts HS2 | :50:25. | :50:31. | |
limited's record is over and they have been talking more about | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
engagement for months but for the local residents at the coal face, | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
she says, it is hard to spot any change. -- the engagement h`s been | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
poor. That is replicated in many of the constituencies of my affected | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
colleagues. For an organisation with such an enormous operation `nd | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
expanding workforce I believe the minister would agree this is | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
unacceptable and requires addressing what senior personnel and indeed at | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
ministerial level. The right member Mac for American was liable to be | :51:08. | :51:16. | |
chairman of HS2 to convey hdr concern constituents were not | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
adequately communicated with, head of the petition is to the house of | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
Lords select committee and that cause undue frustration as she asked | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
me to introduce that into mx speech because she is at the HS2 mdeting | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
herself and unable to be here. I have been contacted over thd course | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
of preparing for this debatd by a parish council report HS2's original | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
attempt at engagement in thd form of focus groups and did little to allay | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
the fears of the local population. It was felt they were entirdly | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
controlled by HS2. They felt the community events were designed to | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
promote the project, rather than to engage effectively with those that | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
were most affected. The reported to me that HS2 personnel seems | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
uninterested in tapping into the wealth of local knowledge existing | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
in places such as via which could not help the work of HS2 hugely | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
This is echoed also bite my right honourable friend, the membdr from | :52:25. | :52:31. | |
many done, who feels more positive solutions could be generated if HS2 | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
listen and utilise local expertise. I do not know if the Ministdr has | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
had a chance to study the ddsign panel for HS2. I have to tell you, | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
it is full of the great and good, it has got some marvellous members | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
there, really, the leading stars in a world of architecture and design, | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
however, what is not as obvhous is that local input that we were | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
promised, we were promised the design of this project would rely on | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
local and to help get the bdst possible solutions in the areas as | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
the line goes through them. Frankly, I have to say, the earlier community | :53:15. | :53:21. | |
forums considered to have bden, I think the disasters. If you take my | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
great parish council, they felt the engagement was part of a tick box | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
exercise by HS2. They were tnable to provide the level of detail that the | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
residents are one thing and constituents are one thing. -- that | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
they are wanting. When residents tell me they think HS2 is going | :53:45. | :53:49. | |
through the motions during community engagement that is not good enough. | :53:50. | :53:57. | |
For them to come out of those engagements thinking it was only one | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
way and it was a top-down dhscussion they were having reflects vdry badly | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
on the quality and the contdnt and the thought and inputs that goes | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
into those community engagelents. It was summed up by one of the parish | :54:15. | :54:21. | |
councillors who said to me, the parishioners actually still have no | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
real knowledge of what is h`ppening, in fact, most still believe that HS2 | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
will not happen. He felt th`t was not democratic and said, in fact, it | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
is bordering on a dictatorship. I think it is sad that after six or | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
seven years but is how residents feel after there has been an attempt | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
at engagement with the commtnity. I also think that this poor engagement | :54:48. | :54:55. | |
is going to continue to cause problems with the progress of HS2's | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
work. As I understand it, there was a fracture at Fairford recently when | :55:02. | :55:09. | |
HS2 Limited has admitted to fully communicate the residents they would | :55:10. | :55:15. | |
be accessing for groundwork. -- they had omitted to fully communhcate. | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
Households were only told after the work commenced. I am pleased to see | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
the Leader of the House in his place and I know the right Honour`ble | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
member for Pillsbury shares my concern is this kind of inchdent is | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
a very worrying precedent and I would ask the Minister to | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
familiarise himself with thdse interactions and to seek | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
improvement, as a sort of work is going to multiply and incre`sed | :55:44. | :55:46. | |
dramatically over coming months I do not want to see any repe`t of | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
this type of incidents which actually comes from poor | :55:52. | :56:00. | |
communications. The member for Hampstead and Kilburn becamd so | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
exasperated with HS2's limited poor communication she delivered | :56:07. | :56:08. | |
personally 1000 leaflets excluding learning to residents how the | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
construction of the vent sh`ft would affect their homes. -- expl`ining to | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
residents. It is a sad indictment when Members of Parliament have to | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
do a job of a company which is in receipt of so much taxpayer money | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
and a stretched MP has to c`rry out that sort of communications on | :56:28. | :56:29. | |
behalf on the project. The construction is due to begin | :56:30. | :56:44. | |
next year, and the newly appointed construction Minister will | :56:45. | :56:46. | |
apparently be unable to intdrvene in individual cases. The construction | :56:47. | :56:53. | |
Commissioner, the new one, hnterim, the newly appointed Commisshoner | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
came to see me in my office. And I have to say, I have to question his | :56:58. | :57:04. | |
independence, particularly when I am told that any correspondencd should | :57:05. | :57:13. | |
be sent to the HS2 office. H said to him, and I think this is fahr, that | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
my constituents deserve well in advance of to be informed works | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
construction what is happenhng. At the moment, they have got to ring a | :57:27. | :57:36. | |
help desk, no named person to deal with. And HS2, it can honestly be | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
set, not to have engaged in a proactive approach to | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
communications. But rely on a reactive strategy, putting the onus | :57:50. | :58:01. | |
on the people affected by the plans. Two posts to this, I have asked the | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
HS2 to attend the mitigation forum, this is a group that was fotnded by | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
the red honourable member forces have insurance in 2012. And I hope | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
he is going to come to the leeting in a few leaks and reassure us that | :58:18. | :58:20. | |
communication on construction matters, not least with MPs, but | :58:21. | :58:27. | |
constituents will be a priority I am asking the Minister the Cabinet | :58:28. | :58:36. | |
and talk with -- if he can look and talk with other ministers and say | :58:37. | :58:43. | |
that when he arrives at that meeting, he has got more to tell us | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
that we can pass on to constituents. Than when he first came for the cup | :58:49. | :58:58. | |
to see column last week. -- courtesy call. And another Commissioner | :58:59. | :59:04. | |
always comes along. The reshdents Commissioner. We thought he was | :59:05. | :59:11. | |
there to assist specificallx with communication. I have met whth her | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
several times, thoroughly nhce woman and I am always encouraged by | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
current tensions. However, the reality is that the impact hs very | :59:21. | :59:31. | |
low. Firstly... The Minister should be a wheel that she does not appear | :59:32. | :59:35. | |
to be independent, reports to the HS2 chairman, paid by HS2 Lhmited, | :59:36. | :59:42. | |
and sits within those officds. We have only got to look at ovdrall | :59:43. | :59:52. | |
administration, Ipsa does not set out the House of Commons. It seeks | :59:53. | :00:03. | |
to regulate, what MPs do. Sdcondly, this Commissioner only makes | :00:04. | :00:10. | |
recommendations to the chairman And now we are enforceable. -- hn no | :00:11. | :00:21. | |
way. That lacks teeth. Thirdly. . She cannot intervene in indhvidual | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
cases. That begs the question, who might constituents can't re`lly go | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
to when these problems right. Of course, MPs. And as we have heard | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
before, when we pass out le`flets about government projects, LPs | :00:37. | :00:44. | |
offices are hard pressed. And the bottom that falls upon them is | :00:45. | :00:52. | |
tremendous. -- burden. Residents along the line do not have the | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
confidence that it is a credible, independent figure. And scrttinising | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
HS2 the Munich agents, it h`s been pretty ineffective. It is no | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
reflection on her individually, it is the job description that has been | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
given to her, and the appro`ch that HS2 has two this project, wd are | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
doing it, whatever. We have the mandate, you are just getting in the | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
way. That has been coming across the constituents. I think that those two | :01:24. | :01:32. | |
commissioners, it is fair to say, that constituents relational all | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
roads lead to HS2, both judge and jury in all circumstances. Hn March | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
this year, I do not go with the ministers had the opportunity to be | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
the select committee report, that examined HS2 communications | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
following the damaging report on the communications. That was by the | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
Parliamentary ombudsman. Thd ombudsman determined that HS2's | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
actions towards a community in Staffordshire had constitutdd mal | :02:06. | :02:16. | |
administration. The committde concluded that the fundamental | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
exchanges had not taken place and the continuing existence of the | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
culture of death in south -, defensiveness, and been responsible | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
for such a large highly controversial project is not | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
acceptable. I am quoting directly. I think Mr Deputy Speaker you would | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
agree it is not acceptable. The right honourable member for Tamworth | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
has been working alongside Jonathan and a lean, -- Elaine, at the heart | :02:45. | :02:53. | |
of the Bosman report, and dhsplay them receiving an apology from HS2, | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
they have again contacted md and I have been in contact with the right | :03:00. | :03:01. | |
honourable member for Tamworth. They have said that very little has | :03:02. | :03:08. | |
changed in practice. HS2 lilited's treatment of residence is rdmaining | :03:09. | :03:16. | |
poor. They simply do not prhoritise community engagement. In fact, no | :03:17. | :03:25. | |
one to hold feet to the fird, and ensure that HS2 limited upholds the | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
responsibility to residents. At some things, it views as though H am the | :03:32. | :03:43. | |
only person holding their fdet to the fire on many things. Wedks ago, | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
HS2 advertised for four newly qualified graduates, to work for six | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
months, up to ?30,000, to rdad the story of HS2. I have been a | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
minister. That seems to me like the record-keeping and the Department, | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
HS2 limited, is so poor, thdy do not know how they have got to rdally | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
have got to. Doing some far in sick and analysis, to date the policy | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
out. -- dig. That is not good enough. And I think that reflects | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
some of the chaos that I have seen from outside, as been evident in the | :04:21. | :04:31. | |
organisation. Ultimately, those two commissioners, the construction | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
Commissioner and the residents Commissioner have been put hn there | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
to hold HS2 to account. And I do not think the way that those jobs have | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
been drafted, the way the rdmit operates in one case, and the | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
construction Commissioner operating and the residents Commissioner, I do | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
not think it is good to set the bill. I know I have been banging on | :05:00. | :05:07. | |
a little bit about HS2, but I have put some considerable thought into | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
the amendments that we have tabled, to the bill in the House of Lords. | :05:13. | :05:20. | |
Give way? She may be banging on and on but she has many admirers for the | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
fact that she does so. It is such an important issue, or for my | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
constituents and those for ly rate honourable members, I want to | :05:31. | :05:39. | |
encourage her to continue to do so. I am grateful for that. As H have | :05:40. | :05:47. | |
said before, you can never over flatter a politician. If yot so | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
passionate about this. And hf I have a feeling to speak I am verx happy | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
to reflect the feelings of others. And I know my right honourable | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
friend has been working verx hard on trying to mitigate and I am sitting | :05:59. | :06:07. | |
alongside two members for Staffordshire, and I am second to | :06:08. | :06:15. | |
none for my admiration. I think that they feel as strongly as I do. I | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
tabled some amendments for the introduction of an adjudicator, a | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
regulatory, independent bodx that could be dealing with compl`ints | :06:27. | :06:34. | |
swiftly and fairly. And a body that I believe people affected bx this | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
would have confidence and bdlieve in. I think this is still b`dly | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
needed. And I would watch the Minister to revisit these proposals. | :06:45. | :06:57. | |
-- urge. And see if there is any way before the bill leaves, gets Royal | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
Assent... Consider looking `gain at those amendments, accepting them, | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
trying to create a body that would give confidence to those affected. | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
Could I just very much endorse what my right honourable friend has said. | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
And I am referring to my right honourable friend for Stafford, the | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
fact is that we have a servhce problem in our part of | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
Staffordshire. And what she is suggesting would help enormously, in | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
terms of dealing with the complaints about the manner in which HS2 is | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
operating. It is frequently causing enormous anxiety to my local people, | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
and I am seeing them this wdekend on these very questions. I am deeply | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
grateful to my right honour`ble friend. I am grateful to my right | :07:46. | :07:53. | |
honourable friend, because we spent some time drafting these amdndments. | :07:54. | :08:05. | |
And some serious legal brains brought to bear! I do hope the | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
Minister, again, because he's new to the possession and not perh`ps as | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
familiar to the project as the rest of us, I think it would be ` good | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
chance for him review that position. At least I would feel that ht would | :08:19. | :08:26. | |
have been examined, and considerate. Before was rejected. But at the | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
moment I feel it was just rdjected out of hand. Because it camd from | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
somebody who was affected so badly, whose constituency was affected so | :08:37. | :08:46. | |
badly by this scheme. I do have to see also about the communic`tions | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
that I am astounded by the lack of information that HS2 has about | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
communications themselves. H do not know if the Minister has had the | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
chance to look at the answers to my written questions over the last | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
fortnight, particularly one when I asked about the annual budgdts and | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
engagements for HS2, since 2010 I was preparing for this debate. In | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
the response, it was stated that this could not be provided `s the | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
amount of time spent on communication and engagement | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
activity was not tracked. I am astounded by that Mr Deputy Speaker. | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
Despite so much external crhticism, HS2 not even keeping track of what | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
they are spending, and how they are spending, who has been doing what. | :09:34. | :09:42. | |
Kind enough... In terms of the amount that HS2 is costing, we | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
started at 30 billion, then 50 billion. It is now increasing, and | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
the latest estimates, from `ll experts looking at it, is that it is | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
exponentially going up. It could even be 80, more. That would cost | :09:58. | :10:08. | |
more than Hinkley Point, He`throw... And even Gatwick Airport as well. We | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
are talking about massive stms. And many people regard this as ` badly | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
thought out project, causing anxiety and trouble to people. It is the | :10:19. | :10:29. | |
case of the three Hs! Hinkldy, Heathrow, HS2. And the greatest | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
HS2. I have to say, I think the Minister has probably heard me | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
saying this before, I think this project is so large it deserved to | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
have a dedicated minister. 80 billion budget. That is larger than | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
many departments of State. Ht is ridiculous to think we have had five | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
secretaries of State, in such a short period of time, oversdeing | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
this project. The continuitx as ridiculous and we have lost the | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
Chief Executive who is going to Rolls-Royce. And we have an interim | :11:07. | :11:18. | |
Chief Executive, Mr Hill, from CH2M, who has just been in receipt of | :11:19. | :11:31. | |
bonus from HS2. And still the running -- and still in the running | :11:32. | :11:33. | |
for bidding for contracts. That does not seem to have been maint`ined in | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
the current circumstances. The rate honourable member for South`mpton | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
sure has asked me to raise particular Jimmy Nick Asian floors, | :11:43. | :11:52. | |
-- communication flaws, cannot retrieve information from HS2 until | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
they have made an application. And in one of my written answers, on | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
Tuesday, when I was enquiring about the effectiveness of this nded to | :12:04. | :12:11. | |
sell scheme, I was told it was operating fairly, I do not think | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
that is reflected in the relarks to me. And I think that is was looking | :12:15. | :12:23. | |
into, if the Minister would like to respond positively to that `s well. | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
I will not go into the inaddquacy of the legislative process we `re using | :12:29. | :12:39. | |
to put HS2 through this house and the Lollards, that is almost a | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
matter for another time but, needless to say, the very process | :12:44. | :12:52. | |
themselves lead to a great deal of confusion and consternation. For | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
example, the right member M`c for Kenilworth has raised an excellent | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
points with me that the better provision of information and | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
communication would have negated the need for the House of Commons select | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
committee to hear so many pdtitions and had there been constructive | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
engagement beforehand it cotld promote dialogue away from the | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
committee room and sped up the process of the bill, as it was, | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
people felt the only way thdy could communicate with HS2 was coling | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
along and person and making their case. I also want to highlight the | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
poor practice of what has gone on cold corridor deals during the | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
process. -- corridor deals. The reconstruction of the road hn my | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
constituency was agreed in principle between the county council `nd HS2 | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
in such a deal and thus prolised but the evidence given thereaftdr at the | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
committee and as it stands `t the moment this pledge has not been | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
fulfilled. The nature of thdse corridor deals means of vit`l | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
discussions are not transparent and assurances cannot be enforcdd. My | :14:05. | :14:12. | |
constituents feel they are left in a very uncertain and unclear position | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
as to HS2's intentions towards traffic management plan that will | :14:19. | :14:26. | |
have enormous local impact. The Right Honourable member Mac for | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
Kenilworth has also asked md to raise the unsatisfactory nedds for | :14:30. | :14:36. | |
constituents to submitting ` Freedom of Information request to m`intain | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
meaningful and detailed information. Now, once again, that should have | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
been available from the outset from HS2 and it is a great shame they do | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
not display greater transparency. They need to understand that for me | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
as an MP and minute of my honourable friend in this chamber with an | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
interest in the snow I have always approached best on a twin track | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
basis. If I could not persu`de Government this was not the scheme | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
in the right place at the rhght time I'm going to the right placds, then | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
I would be working hard to litigate the effect on my constituency and | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
particularly in one area. It seems to me that HS2 seems to think MPs | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
are working against them whdreas if this is good to go through rehab to | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
accept that what we need to work with to improve the outcomes for the | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
people we represent. I will give way. | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
One point we are finding at the moment with fees to a watch has not | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
even reach Parliament yet btt the effects are felt very much by my | :15:43. | :15:51. | |
constituents and those offered by fellow MPs's constituencies, is they | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
are not being given the support in terms of planning if they are going | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
to have to move house. Some of my constituents homes will be | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
demolished in this phase but because parliamentary consent has not been | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
achieved for that stayed nothing can be done even though they will have | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
to make plans in the next fhve years of building a new house bec`use they | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
us will be demolished. As M`tt right honourable friend -- has might right | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
honourable friend came across instances like this? All thd lessons | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
we have been trying to point out on phase one do not seem to have been | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
learned. The mistakes are bding repeated in phase two. Cert`inly, | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
the burden on local authorities to supplement HS2's poor performance | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
has fallen disproportionately upon them and I am fearful about the next | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
process, the planning processes that follow, because it will put | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
increasingly more and more burdens on our local authorities who have, | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
let's face it, stretched budget as it is. | :17:03. | :17:13. | |
As is implied by my friend, the fact is whatever is decided on this bill | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
when it goes through the hotse of Lords, inevitably, there it will be | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
applied as a president in rdlation to the next bill so that is what we | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
need to follow what might Rhght Honourable friend is saying so | :17:28. | :17:35. | |
closely. -- applied as a prdsent precedent. I am giving eviddnce and | :17:36. | :17:42. | |
making recommendations on how to change the procedure and evdryone | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
would agree it is inequitable we should have Standing Orders | :17:46. | :17:48. | |
preventing MPs, for example, appearing as petitioners in the | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
house of Lords in the other place. There was no choice but the chairman | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
of that committee but to interpret the Standing Orders in that way but | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
to remove the right of advocacy from MPs seems to me to be self-defeating | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
and inadequate and I am surd it is something both houses would want to | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
see changed in the future. Going back to the burden on local | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
authorities, particularly in relation to communications, I think | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
that burden has been astronomical. In my own local authority, H asked | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
the leader of the county cotncil and he said this in the house of Lords | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
select committee also, on Monday, the Council actually spent ?110 264 | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
on community liaison relating to HS2. That is to cover per | :18:40. | :18:48. | |
communications from HS2. Thdy asked for retrospective compensathon to | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
recover these costs which I think is entirely reasonable and I hope the | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
Minister will agree to this and if he cannot agree to this at the | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
dispatch box tonight if he would do really courtesy of looking hnto it | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
and seeing how we can compensate our local authorities. I would `lso like | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
to note I think it is incredible the county council can actually provide | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
actual figures on communication and engagement down to the last pounds | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
winners HS2 can't. -- down to the last pounds, whereas HS to come | :19:22. | :19:34. | |
The staff are consistently tsed to help to mediate between HS2 and | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
residents went intentions to access land have not been adequately | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
communicated and I think th`t is a job HS2 should and could be doing | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
satisfactorily on their own if they had the will to do so. Prior to the | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
introduction of the local engagement managers local authorities had been | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
expected to plug the gap in communication to provide information | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
to residents that was not rdadily available from HS2 and I thhnk the | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
minister should bear in mind that was all at the Council's own | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
expense. It is not just loc`l authorities and parish councils and | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
residents, it is also poor engagement that reaches into a wider | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
constituency. I have been contacted by the Woodland Trust who rdport to | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
me they have not been engagdd on the independent review of biodiversity, | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
as was recommended in the House of Commons select committee. They now | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
may face petitioning in the house of Lords without the information they | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
needed. The so tell me information regarding third-party plannhng | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
applications has also not bden forthcoming by HS2 Limited `nd that | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
has caused unacceptable del`ys in compensation payments. I do think a | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
project of this size that is bringing with it such a heavy burden | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
on our environment, particularly the violation poor of one in thd | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
Chilterns, it should be enstring they are following up and ddaling | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
with the detail when it comds to the environmental organisations trying | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
to help mitigate the impact on our environment. I asked the minister | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
today to take notes of thesd ongoing to medications failures and to | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
ensure he will make sure it is his priority -- communication f`ilures. | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
Mick has priority to sort this out. This is hindered HS2's conshderably | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
and it is costing the taxpaxer even more money than it should bd. I also | :21:36. | :21:43. | |
think he needs to have a look at producing a script body with teeth | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
to hold this organisation to account, especially what thd | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
construction fast approaching. For me, there has to be some better | :21:52. | :22:01. | |
attitude from HS2 towards the people affected by this. When I was | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
preparing for this debate I thought there were two main themes H wanted | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
to leave with the Minister, firstly, I want to ensure there is that | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
overhaul of the attitudes whthin HS2. There is the overhaul of its | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
communication and engagement strategy and that it is looked at | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
right at the highest level of the Department for Transport. Sdcondly, | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
echoing the interventions from my honourable friend, I want to ensure | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
this communication never happens again. And the residents received | :22:38. | :22:47. | |
the substandard treatment on phase one are just the exception `nd do | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
not become the rule because if a resident on phase two will be | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
treated in the same way I think the taxpayer will be paying even more | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
heavily for this project th`n is anticipated. | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
I have to say, I think we h`ve really got to look at our, the way | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
we do our major infrastructtre projects. It is extraordinary to me | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
that we have had an announcdment this week of Heathrow which I have | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
welcomed because it will be of economic benefit to Buckinghamshire | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
and my constituency and the residents, and we have finally got a | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
decision on Heathrow after the Howard Davies commission, after | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
years of investigation and we have had it looked at from every angle. | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
HS2, however, was written on the back of an envelope ie Labotr | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
transport minister and immediately adopted by the coalition government | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
and has not gone through those processes. One is far too long and | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
the other is far too short. We need to find some way of ensuring our | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
infrastructure projects are the right projects in the right places | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
and communications and engagement are relate to the highest ldvel | :24:07. | :24:13. | |
because otherwise I believe we will have greater problems as thdse | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
projects progress. I want to finish by saying I did not realise I was | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
going to have the luxury, I do not you should talk at such length, to | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
have the luxury of such a long set of interventions. I want to thank my | :24:29. | :24:36. | |
colleagues in the chamber stpporting me today, particularly thosd who | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
remain silent, but I hope the Minister when he rises will give me | :24:41. | :24:48. | |
the encouragement he will use his influence to radically re-evaluate | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
HS2's approach to dealing whth constituents, embed a culture of | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
respect, transparency and openness together with improved | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
communications. Thank you very much, Mr Deptty | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
Speaker and the as by congr`tulating my right honourable friend on | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
securing on the effectiveness of her communication and engagement | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
undertaken by HS2 limited mtst begin by acknowledging her tireless work | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
on this project and that work has had a measurable effect on the | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
Government's approach. Also for highlighting the communicathon | :25:31. | :25:32. | |
challenges and problems which have been a part of the project to date. | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
I have heard that not just from my right honourable friend tod`y but | :25:39. | :25:40. | |
also other colleagues around the house. The key ask she made in her | :25:41. | :25:52. | |
closing remarks was, would H undertake to basically look at all | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
the projects and communicathons taken place so far and improve it. I | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
am sure that is something I can give her and I will go into that in more | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
detail in the remarks ahead. Let me start by putting the HS2 | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
project in context. I know that perhaps might agree but I bdlieve | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
HS2 is a vital strategic issue for our whole country. We have the rail | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
industry which is a huge success and that's... Order! I beg to move this | :26:26. | :26:36. | |
house to know adjourned. Th`nk you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Our rail industry | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
is a huge success and growth is putting huge problems on thd | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
capacity of the network. We must build capacity into the network and | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
that is what HS2 is about and recognise it will bring connectivity | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
between a vital routes of London and the West Midlands, crude, Ldeds | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
Manchester, South Yorkshire and East Midlands and create space on our | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
network for new routes and give a boost to our regional and n`tional | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
economies and it is vital for the jobs it will create. It has also | :27:11. | :27:20. | |
had... I can indeed give wax. I am most grateful. I know he's only | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
using this as a backdrop to the points he will deal with anx moment | :27:24. | :27:31. | |
regarding the specifics that he is forward but would you accept that | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
and reports after reports challenging the assumptions on which | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
she had just made his remarks and although the vote in the Hotse of | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
Commons demonstrated a huge majority for the project actually, the | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
reports coming out over the past two years have universally conddmned the | :27:51. | :27:58. | |
project on cost and on incrdasing costs and many of the assumptions on | :27:59. | :28:06. | |
what to put forward his casd. It would be extreme to say thex have | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
all reports written on this project are universally condemning ht | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
because I do not believe th`t to be the case. There has been vohces | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
which have cast doubts on the project or belief we should do a | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
different project or they could be an alternative use of public money | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
but I think there is no real momentum behind this project. It had | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
overwhelming support in this house and quote on phase one was passed | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
nine to one in favour at thhrd reading. When construction begins | :28:42. | :28:49. | |
next year I think the attittdes will change again. We intend to start | :28:50. | :28:57. | |
construction shortly after Royal assent, perhaps towards Chrhstmas | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
and January, depending on the progress the with it for thd | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
commencement of work in the spring. Then the debate will change and will | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
not be a question of whether we should be doing this project or not, | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
a question of how to maximise the benefits this project will happen. | :29:16. | :29:22. | |
It will rapidly become the largest infrastructure project in Etrope. | :29:23. | :29:31. | |
And the project of scale and complexity and tradition repuires | :29:32. | :29:33. | |
engagement across many commtnities, organisations and individuals. | :29:34. | :29:44. |