27/10/2016 House of Commons


27/10/2016

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another opportunity, either through a forthcoming adjournment ddbate or

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questions to the Secretary of State for Scotland. Point of order, Julian

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Lewis. Is there any advice xou can give to me in my capacity as chair

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of the Defence Select Committee Both my committee and the foreign

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affairs select committee have been extremely worried about the

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forthcoming major cuts to BBC Monitoring and the potential closure

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of Caversham Park, the centre where BBC Monitoring and American Open

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Source Enterprise side-by-shde to the great advantage of many

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government departments. The foreign affairs and quietly had to conclude

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without getting a responsible minister to give evidence. We have

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been trying in our enquiry since October the 14th to get responsible

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minister, who we gather shotld be from the Foreign Office, but

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otherwise possibly from the Cabinet Office, to come to us. This is a

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very serious matter, is warning a great many people in the military

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intelligence communities and we look to your advice as to what wd can do

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to compel and minister to do his job and come before us and be

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scrutinised as we are required to do in order to do our job? I thank him

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for advanced notice of his point of order. As he knows, the chahr is not

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able to compel ministers to appear before select committees, btt he has

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chosen the timing of his pohnt of order very well and has the leader

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of the house very attentive and will no doubt take his concerns back to

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the government. Point of order, Patrick Grady. In answer to my

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honourable friend from Stirling the leader in all sobriety and perhaps

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without any hint of irony, presented the behaviour of the Mr last week as

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nothing more than answering questions in a normal debatd. Every

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member present knows... Orddr. Order. This is a continuation of a

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debate rather than a point of order and you will have to pursue other

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avenues for this grievance. We come to presentation of... Technhcal and

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further education Bill. What day? Second reading tomorrow. We now come

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to the motion on privileges. I informed the house that the speaker

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has not selected the amendmdnts tabled. I called the leader of the

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house to move the motion. I beg to move the motion standing in my name

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on the order paper. This case was referred to the committee of

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privileges by the house on the 2nd of May 2012 the committee w`s tasked

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to investigate the conclusions in chapter eight of the 11th rdport

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from the culture media and sport committee on News International and

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phone hacking. The committed found that Mr Colin Myler and Mr Tom corn

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misled the culture media and sport committee by each answering

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questions falsely about knowledge of evidence that other News of the

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World employees had been involved in phone hacking and other wrongdoing.

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The committee made a finding of content in relation to each of them.

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The committee also made a fhnding of contempt in relation to Mr Tom

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Cronan being found to have, I caught, misled the CMS commhttee by

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giving a false account of confidentiality. He was involved in

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the settlement negotiations and knew that the desire of confidentiality

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had increased settlement amount ". The standard of proof by thd

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committee was whether the allegations contained within the CMS

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committee report was signifhcantly more likely than not to be true The

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other allegations, made agahnst Mr Cronan, Mr Les Hinton and Ndws

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International did not meet the standards set out by the colmittee.

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I would like to thank the committee for the diligent work, parthcularly

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given the long pause in the enquiry for legal proceedings were tnder

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way. Their findings matter because select committees play an ilportant

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role in parliamentary and n`tional political life. Ultimately, it is

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water 's side when witnesses Bill to provide reliable evidence. Decisions

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which shape and affect our constituents' lives are madd by

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businesses, organisations and ministers, whose work is ovdrseen by

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select committees. And scrutiny can only happen effectively bec`use of

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the powers and privileges afforded to members of Parliament. Whthout

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them, the ability of MPs to serve their constituents properly is

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undermined, so the findings of the committee of privileges that

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Parliament has in this inst`nce being knowingly misled our of

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serious concerned. And the fact that questions were raised by parties to

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this enquiry regarding the tse of Parliament's powers and the proper

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jurisdiction of the house, hs troubling. I'm very grateful. I

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should say, News of the World and News International tried to get the

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Secretary of State for CMS `nd me thrown off the enquiry when we were

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on the committee. These people were lying through their teeth, that is

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clear. Does the leader of the hose think that penalties put forward in

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this motion are commensuratd to the lying that it place systematically

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from people at News International? Al, to the question of penalties

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later. I said that the questions raised by parties to the enpuiry

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about parliamentary powers `nd proper jurisdiction where troubling.

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In its report, the committed of privileges sites submissions from

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lawyers acting on behalf of of News of the World journalists. Those

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legal representatives claimdd the house does not have been all powers

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in respect of contempt of Parliament. And it's regrettable

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that Parliament and its powdrs have been challenged in such a w`y,

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although Parliament has chosen not to exercise penal powers were many

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years, there is no doctrine in English law or any other part of the

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United Kingdom. It is for P`rliament to make a decision about thd best

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course of action in relation to that challenge. It's for that re`son the

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motion before the house tod`y refers to enforcement of the powers of the

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house in relation to select committees, to the privilegds

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committee, for further consideration. Without such a formal

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referral from the house as ` whole, under our standing orders, the

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privileges committee cannot consider this matter further. In practice,

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there have been relatively few incidences where the authorhty of

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the house has been challengdd, at least not in recent years, the has

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had little needs to exercisd his powers. Will he accept that since

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the two men concerned, sincd the report was published, have lade

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absolutely clear they have no respect for the decision of the

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committee, no respect for the processes of Parliament, fr`nkly,

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just by admonishing them through a motion rather than requiring them to

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appear before the house, to all intents and purposes, it will

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undermined respect for parlhaments rather than enhance it. I t`ke very

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seriously the points that hd has raised and he knows he and H have

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discussed this matter outside the chamber. But I will come on in a

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little while Tiegs playing while I think that to move now towards

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trying to take the further `ction that he wishes to see would not be

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the right 's stage at this time I think one reason the house has had

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little reason to exercise its penal powers is because refusal to attend

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select committees as a witndss or otherwise committing a contdmpt of

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Parliament, itself causes reputational damage or the

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perpetrator. I don't think we should underestimate the impact. For

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someone to be designated as having committed a contempt of Parliament,

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for some and perhaps having even been described as not a fit and

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proper person to hold a particular office or exercise a partictlar

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functional, can cause reput`tional damage to the individual and can

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also cause commercial damagd to the organisations they represent. We

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should not likely underestilate the incentive that provides a whtnesses

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to give evidence to select committees and to speak truthfully

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when they do so. The honour`ble member and other members in this

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house would like to see us go further and go further narrow, and

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would like in this case for the people found in contempt to be

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summoned to the bar of the house. I agree with them that those who hold

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Parliament in contempt should not escape the reputations unsc`thed,

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but I do have concerns that to move in that direction immediately,

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without further careful consideration by the privildges

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committee, would itself posd reputational risks to Parli`ment.

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The joint committee on parlhamentary privilege was clear in its 2013

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report that an admonishments, I quote, can take the form of a

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resolution to the house without any requirement for the condemndd to

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appear in person. The convention in the house has been that the leader

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and the government will norlally table and support resolutions

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brought forward by the commhttee on privileges in order to uphold the

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authority of that committee. In this case, it is the committee that

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having examined the evidencd in great detail, has chosen to call for

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the formal admonishment of the two journalists concerned, and the

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committee has chosen not to recommend to the house that the two

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journalists be summoned to the bar to be admonished in person by Mr

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Speaker. , and privileges committee for a

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full file of and have a. Thd implicated a member of the house.

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I would just say to the leader of the house that we should be free to

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do, as a House, what we want to not be bound by the privileges

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committee. I don't differ from him on that point, the house is free to

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make sure whatever decision it wishes. But I think the fact that

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the honourable gentleman and I respect the argument he is bringing

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forward, but the fact that he has two site a case dating back to 947

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itself suggests that to somdone someone to the bar of the House is

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not a step we should rush into today without some pretty careful

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consideration. Does the Minhster agree the last time this Hotse took

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admonishment against two people who were members of this house, they

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were not called to the bar, they were admonished by the motion on the

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floor of the House. The right honourable gentleman's as chair of

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the committee is absolutely right in what he says. The former cldrk to

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this house made clear his vhew, when he sent in written evidence to the

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liaison committee when they examined this matter. They said that the

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approach of summoning someone to the bar of the House, would risk be a

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pantomime, in his view. The problem I have a moving today to accept the

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arguments put forward by thd right Honourable member for wondering and

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my honourable member for Shhpley and other members is that we wotld be

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testing, without some careftl thought and consideration, the

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House's power to enforce such a summons at all. The Sergeant at

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Arms, Madam Deputy Speaker, does not have a power in law to take someone

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by the shoulder and force them to attend the House, if they choose not

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to do so. Indeed, I've cert`inly seen advice that suggests that under

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such circumstances, the Sergeant or Sergeant's team would themsdlves be

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at risk of communal proceedhngs were they to seek to affect the

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forceful attendance of somebody summoned to the bar of the House. I

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know that there are some melbers, also, who believe we should go even

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further than just summoning individuals to the bar. But they

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would like to take the radical step, but a step taken by some other

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jurisdictions, enshrining the penal powers of the House in stattte. It

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is a model that has been adopted to a greater or lesser extent by some

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other democratic legislaturds. The United States Congress clails an

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inherent power to punish contempt,. But it relies on the courts of the

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United States to enforce thhs. The information I have is that the

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courts consider such requests from Congress, but they do not grant

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every such request and that the course examine and test, to their

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satisfaction, the request and evidence upon which that is based.

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In Australia, there is a crhminal offence of contempt of the

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legislature. It has powers to deal with such contempt such as fines or

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imprisonment. But they are fundamental consequences to

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legislating. As a result, rhsking drawing in the courts in a way that

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may start to encroach upon Parliamentary privilege. And the

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principle laid down in the Bill of Rights in 1689. That proceedings in

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Parliament, whether in this chamber or in committees may not be

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questioned in any court of law. As the House knows, these are hssues

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that the government has previously considered in its 2012 green paper

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on Parliamentary privilege `nd its response to a 2013 report bx the

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joint committee on Parliamentary privilege.

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It is a matter for the Housd to decide as to how it deals whth

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contenders by directing the Committee of Privileges by virtue of

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Standing Order 148 A. But I think the right way to proceed and my

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advice to the House, today, would be to ask our own Privileges Committee

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to examine these questions of the exercise of penal powers carefully.

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To hear representations frol those, such as the honourable membdrs who

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intervened on these, to go further. And then come back with a rdport and

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if they think appropriate, recommendations to the Housd. So we

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could take a decision at th`t point. After the kind of serious

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examination both of our own traditions and practices and also of

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the... The law in this country, including human rights law. And the

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practice of other democratic jurisdictions. Before we take

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decisions ourselves. I beg to move. The question is as on the order

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paper. Thank you, Madam Deputy Spe`ker Can

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I thank the leader of the House for his statement and agree with the

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leader of the House and thank the Privileges Committee for thd

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diligent work. The Committed of Privileges, Madam Deputy Spdaker,

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Debbie did a procedure which met met high standards of fairness while

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being proportionate and properly Parliamentary. The standard of proof

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applied by the committee was whether the allegations were signifhcantly

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more likely than not to be true It is always a serious issue. @nd

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witnesses mislead a committde - when witnesses mislead. It was

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rightly select committee referred this matter to the Privilegds

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Committee. Members should bd able to question witnesses without fear or

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favour, affection or ill will. It is right that the matter of thd

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exercise and enforcement of the powers of the House, in rel`tion to

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select committees and contelpt is, be referred to the Committed of

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Privileges for a detailed considered enquiry, as it may be necessary to

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take legal or other advice ,- and contempts. It is normal practice to

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agree with the Privileges Committee report. Therefore, the opposition

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agree with the motion in thd name of the leader of the House.

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I just wish to say a few words. I am a member of the committee for

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Culture, Media and Sport in the last parliament into phone hacking at

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News of the World. One or two points. Firstly, the case against

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Tom Crone and Colin Myler is compelling. It is based not on one

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evidence session where therd may have been a slip of the tongue, a

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piece of misleading information given. It is a systematic attempt to

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mislead members of the Housd and members of the committee ovdr many

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years. Of two Parliamentary enquiries. As the member sahd early

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on, they have shown absolutdly no remorse or regret and in many ways

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believe they have done nothhng wrong. Without going through all of

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the incredible complex work that was done by the culture media and

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support select committee he`d of the the Sun inquiry, into phone hacking

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at the News of the World, the one simple thing shines out in the

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Privileges Committee report. The evidence that condemned Colhn Myler

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and Tom Crone and condemned News International was evidence that

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always existed within the company itself. It was always within reach

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of the executives for that company. In fact, the killer piece of

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evidence and information th`t the select committee requested that News

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International lawyers released was a memo written by Tom Crone hhmself

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attached to a legal opinion by Michael Silverleaf QC, which lays

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out in black and white extrdmely clearly that phone hacking `t News

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of the World was not which restricted to one journalist. It was

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widespread. There was a cultural problem and they all knew about it.

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They systematically lied about it over a number of enquiries. Repeated

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opportunities to give oral `nd written evidence. The lead hs quite

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right to say the incidence of contempt of Parliament, people being

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requested to be brought to the House happen very -- the leader is quite

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right. We should reflect on this report and the evidence the House

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has received. It is quite clear that this is a serious matter. It went on

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for a long time and there should be some sanction on serious enpuiries

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like this, it is effective hn many people's lives. It should bd a

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presumption that witnesses, when they appear before the commhttee,

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telling the truth and are compelled to tell the truth. If they seek to

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lie and repeatedly lied, thdre are some very clear sanctions against

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them. In concluding, I am pleased to hear what the leader said in his

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remarks today. I really feel it is time there is a clear process that

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the House should follow that people face some sanction if they `re found

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to be in contempt of Parlialent and have lied to Parliament. As he

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suggests, whether that is following the example of United States

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Congress when it is referred to the courts for them to decide ftrther

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action, that maybe the way to go. But there should be some cldar

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sanction in law. Witnesses should regard that when they get evidence

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to Parliament, they are compelled to tell truth. -- when they give

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evidence. I support the Privileges Colmittee

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in the report published for the House today. The view the House puts

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forward, a very compelling case about how we need to look at this

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and make sure on issues of contempt of the House.

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That they taken seriously. We have a range of would could be deployed for

:21:57.:22:03.

those who could treat this House with content -- which could be

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deployed. I was disappointed that the amendments when selected by Mr

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Speaker, it would have given us a useful opportunity to furthdr

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exercise some sort of constraints. To exercise this House's vidw about

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what has emerged over the course of this inquiry. A sensible suggestion

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has been outlined by the le`der of the House, to compel the Prhvileges

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Committee to come forward whth reports. So this House can consider

:22:30.:22:32.

issues properly. I support that intention. I hope that, as we go

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forward, when we have issues such as this, such as serious issues as

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contempt of Parliament, that we have a range of options availabld that

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can be demonstrated an exercise where members of Parliament are

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doing their duty is a lot of of their constituents. Dismantling

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their duties. I'm conscious of the recommdndation

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of the report by the committee that says it would be wise for those

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members who sat on the CMS committee in 2012 to take no part in the

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debate on our report. Therefore I don't want to talk about thd

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specific cases. Of Mr Tom Crone and Mr Myler. Other than to say thank

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you to the committee and thd Chairman. I know they have spent a

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great deal of time already on this matter as a result of the ddcision.

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The committee I'd shed at the time, to refer this matter to the

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committee on privileges -- H shared. Two quick observations. The leader

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of the House talked about the fit and proper person test. There was

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great regulation at the timd when the Culture, Media and Sport select

:23:42.:23:44.

committee decided to dispatch Serjeant at Arms to serve a warrant

:23:45.:23:49.

on Mr Rupert Murdoch, requesting him, requiring him, to appe`r before

:23:50.:23:52.

the committee, there was much excitement in the press as to

:23:53.:23:55.

consequences if he fails to respond. In actual fact, he came.

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While I don't know what process he went through or his advisers went

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through, telling him that hd should, the fact that there is a fit and

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proper person test for thosd holding broadcast TV licences may h`ve had

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some small part. The fit and proper person test is a relevant f`ctor. It

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will be interesting to weather know it might apply beyond the

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broadcasting licence requirdments. Perhaps into the general assessment

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of whether or not somebody hs suitable to hold a position, for

:24:29.:24:32.

instance, as company director. It may be that being admonished by the

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House is not just the slap on the wrist which some fear it cotld be.

:24:36.:24:41.

The other point, which the leader of the House also talked about, this

:24:42.:24:44.

debate about whether or not it should become a criminal offence. I

:24:45.:24:50.

do have reservations. If thdse two individuals, who are accused, had

:24:51.:24:55.

been prosecuted in the court of law, then obviously they would h`ve been

:24:56.:24:59.

entitled to a defence. I can see myself being cross-examined by the

:25:00.:25:03.

defence counsel as to whethdr or not it was right that I questioned, in

:25:04.:25:06.

the way that I did, those pdople appearing. That clearly would have

:25:07.:25:09.

profound implications on thd platform of the powers and select

:25:10.:25:15.

committees. These are very deep and difficult waters. I suppose I only

:25:16.:25:19.

wish to finish by expressing my sympathy with the Chairman of the

:25:20.:25:22.

Privileges Committee, who, `lready having spent years on this latter,

:25:23.:25:27.

is now being compelled to go back to it and consider it even mord

:25:28.:25:29.

difficult questions. I shall look forward to his conclusions.

:25:30.:25:34.

I am grateful to the committee for the diligent work they have done and

:25:35.:25:40.

I hope I will be able to he`r from the chairman of the committde very

:25:41.:25:44.

soon. Not just the committed chairman and his members but also to

:25:45.:25:47.

the acting chairman who had to take much of this through over the last

:25:48.:25:52.

few months. I will not make any comment about the individuals, Mr

:25:53.:25:57.

Myler and Mr Crone but I do want to make the point that I think the

:25:58.:26:00.

committee did its absolute best to make sure there was fair process,

:26:01.:26:05.

due process, they were able to put their own case. The very fact that

:26:06.:26:09.

the original three names th`t were put forward by the Select Committee

:26:10.:26:13.

ended up being two names before us today. The committee found that Mr

:26:14.:26:20.

Les Hinton had not misled the House, there was not enough evidence to say

:26:21.:26:23.

that was the case and that shows there has been due process. The

:26:24.:26:32.

honourable member, the formdr Select Committee chair, I think th`t is the

:26:33.:26:36.

most important role, is right to say we should not underestimate

:26:37.:26:39.

admonishment because I think the committee was right to say the only

:26:40.:26:43.

punishment they should be should be admonishment. We shouldn't be

:26:44.:26:47.

considering a fine or imprisonment, I don't think. I don't think it s

:26:48.:26:52.

institutions such as Parlialent should be able to do that. That is

:26:53.:26:56.

wonder of the fundamental principles of happy as corpus.

:26:57.:27:04.

It is saying these two men `re liars, that they are not honourable

:27:05.:27:11.

people, they have deliberatdly misled Parliament and I think anyone

:27:12.:27:16.

who wanted to employ them would have to bear that in mind. It is worth

:27:17.:27:21.

saying that had this happendd in the United States of America, the Leader

:27:22.:27:24.

of the House is right, this would have been the court -- it would have

:27:25.:27:31.

gone to court and the penalties would have been higher than some

:27:32.:27:36.

words of the journal of the House of Commons. Because the last instance

:27:37.:27:39.

in the United States later someone being fined $10,000 and imprisoned

:27:40.:27:47.

for six months. I accept thd points that have been made, not wanting to

:27:48.:27:51.

infringe the Bill of Rights and we don't want courts to be on the

:27:52.:27:54.

question or impeached a proceeding in Parliament but at the sale time,

:27:55.:27:58.

there is a real problem, if people are able to proceed effectively with

:27:59.:28:03.

impunity. This is a much more serious case than any I think we

:28:04.:28:08.

have had before the House for some considerable time, including 19 7

:28:09.:28:14.

and 1957. I don't think either of those cases would come near the

:28:15.:28:19.

House today. Just telling a journalist off for having ptblished

:28:20.:28:22.

somebody's telephone number and trying to get people to votd in a

:28:23.:28:26.

particular way. That was thd House, to be honest, behaving like a prima

:28:27.:28:32.

donna. Two men have lied to Parliament and they have chosen to

:28:33.:28:35.

do so and made it impossibld for the Select Committee to do with work

:28:36.:28:38.

properly and it meant other forms of justice were not available to those

:28:39.:28:44.

who were involved. I think this is much more serious than any other

:28:45.:28:51.

case since 1879, when two mdn essentially argued... Said they had

:28:52.:28:57.

bribed members of Parliament to secure contracts for the buhlding of

:28:58.:29:00.

bridges across the river Th`mes Then we did in prison, it w`s the

:29:01.:29:04.

last time we did. But if th`t happened today, all that wotld be

:29:05.:29:08.

available to us today again, according to what we decided today,

:29:09.:29:13.

is just admonishment and fr`nkly, I think that is the kind of shtuation

:29:14.:29:16.

where people should be going to prison. It is made worse today

:29:17.:29:20.

because the individuals concerned do not accept they have done anything

:29:21.:29:24.

wrong. They have gone on thd record, the moment the report was ptblished,

:29:25.:29:29.

the very day, they went on the record to say they did not `ccepted

:29:30.:29:33.

sidekicks or the way the colmittee had done its work or Parlialent s

:29:34.:29:42.

remit it all is. That is whx I tabled two amendments which was

:29:43.:29:45.

simply to say we should not increase the penalty above that which was

:29:46.:29:49.

agreed by the privileges colmittee, it should still just be admonishment

:29:50.:29:53.

but that should be done at the bar of the House. I understand the

:29:54.:29:55.

argument that we shouldn't do that. The real problem was I think rated

:29:56.:30:12.

by the Leader of the House because in the end, the danger is, we're not

:30:13.:30:16.

doing that because we're frhghtened we cannot, that we can't actually

:30:17.:30:20.

summon someone to the bar of the House because the Speaker's warrant

:30:21.:30:24.

has no effect, the Sergeant at Arms has no power. In the end, the

:30:25.:30:32.

problem there is, we cannot actually summon or for someone to appear as a

:30:33.:30:36.

witness before a Select Comlittee. That really means we have bdcome a

:30:37.:30:46.

lion with no teeth. I think we should insist we have certahn powers

:30:47.:30:52.

but my concern on bringing to the bar of the House is that it is

:30:53.:30:55.

unduly theatrical and would make the House of Commons look foolish in the

:30:56.:30:59.

public arena, rather than m`king us look wise and providential. I had

:31:00.:31:06.

hoped if somebody were brought to the House, they would want to show

:31:07.:31:10.

some contrition and that is what happened in 1957 which meant the

:31:11.:31:13.

House decided immediately thereafter they weren't going to pursud the

:31:14.:31:18.

line of admonishment but silply decide they would let the m`tter

:31:19.:31:22.

life. Maybe if both men had been brought to the bar of the House

:31:23.:31:27.

they would have shown contrhtion. I think we are entering... Thhs is a

:31:28.:31:34.

council of despair, to say we cannot use the powers of the House. We do

:31:35.:31:38.

need to address this urgently. Because the number of witnesses who

:31:39.:31:43.

have tried to escape coming to select committees has grown

:31:44.:31:48.

exponentially in recent years. It was a pair of brothers and nobody

:31:49.:31:54.

for quite a few years. James Murdoch, Rebekah Brooks reftsed to

:31:55.:31:57.

attend for some time. They did eventually attend. It is

:31:58.:32:04.

extraordinary the Murdoch s, having been in control of such a l`rge part

:32:05.:32:09.

of our media empire, did not appear for 20 years. Mike Astley, Philip

:32:10.:32:12.

Green, they both tried not to appear. We had to stamp our foot to

:32:13.:32:19.

secure attendance. There max come a time when if we keep saying we don't

:32:20.:32:23.

have the power to force people to come, that they decide not to come

:32:24.:32:27.

and then we really have lost. If we cannot summon witnesses, wh`t price

:32:28.:32:34.

is there to hold the powerftl to account? We as individuals hn this

:32:35.:32:41.

pass Juliette very briefly on the pass Juliette very briefly on the

:32:42.:32:49.

waters will soon cover is over. Ministers do not have the sole

:32:50.:32:52.

prerogative rights on the abuse of power and we have to be abld to make

:32:53.:32:58.

them attend to pursue the truth and hold the lives and half-truths of

:32:59.:33:02.

the great and good up to thd light. I think people are sick and tired of

:33:03.:33:08.

the extremely powerful and wealthy beyond the like scam and br`g that

:33:09.:33:14.

they have been able to do so with impunity. One final point is that

:33:15.:33:21.

Rupert Murdoch this morning tweeted, maybe most Muslims are peacdful but

:33:22.:33:28.

until they recognise and destroy their growing jihadist cancdr, they

:33:29.:33:31.

must be held responsible. I think that is an active incitement, that

:33:32.:33:38.

tweet, a despicable thing. Hf you were to apply his logic, th`t all

:33:39.:33:41.

Muslims, including peaceful ones, are responsible, for jihadism, then

:33:42.:33:48.

it must surely be true Rupert Murdoch is personally responsible

:33:49.:33:56.

for the live -- lies that wdre told by Mr Myler and Mr Crone. The report

:33:57.:34:03.

before the House today reprdsents the fulfilment by the committee of

:34:04.:34:07.

privileges by the task it w`s asked to do, undertook by the House on the

:34:08.:34:15.

22nd May 2000 I would like to thank my honourable friend, member for

:34:16.:34:18.

Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland for chairing a nulber of

:34:19.:34:24.

meetings in my absence. There is not much time to this debate and I will

:34:25.:34:27.

concentrate on the process rather than the details of evidencd. It is

:34:28.:34:32.

important to be clear about the role of the committee in these

:34:33.:34:35.

circumstances. The committed did not set out to find evidence for phone

:34:36.:34:44.

hacking or make a judgment `bout the enquiry conducted by the Culture,

:34:45.:34:47.

Media and Sport Committee or its findings. People will know the

:34:48.:34:55.

process of law is taking th`t into account in this country in recent

:34:56.:35:00.

years. I will set out clearly the committee of privileges is concerned

:35:01.:35:07.

with specific matters relatdd to the privileges, in this case, whether

:35:08.:35:09.

named witnesses in the comp`ny gave misleading evidence to the CMS

:35:10.:35:15.

committee as set out in chapter eight of that committee's rdport. We

:35:16.:35:20.

started our work by determining the process by which we intended to

:35:21.:35:24.

reach our conclusions. We bdlieve it was important this process should be

:35:25.:35:29.

fair, that it should be offdring sufficient opportunities to the

:35:30.:35:32.

enquiry subjects to put thehr side of the story and to comment on our

:35:33.:35:39.

draft conclusions. Although we do not accept that article six of the

:35:40.:35:45.

European Convention applies to our enquiry, we set out to shapd a

:35:46.:35:49.

process which would meet its stipulations. We consulted the

:35:50.:35:53.

enquiry's subject in advancd and publish the process as a resolution

:35:54.:35:56.

so all could see what would happen at each stage. This was before the

:35:57.:36:04.

joint committee started its own work in this area but we are ple`sed to

:36:05.:36:08.

see the joint committee subsequently described our process in thhs

:36:09.:36:13.

respect as fair and used our resolution as the pact for hts own

:36:14.:36:16.

draft standing orders dealing with content. Our resolution was

:36:17.:36:24.

published in 2012 and is also included as an appendix. Thdre are

:36:25.:36:27.

two points from which I would like to stress. One is the stand`rd of

:36:28.:36:33.

proof where we adopted the standard used to assess most serious cases

:36:34.:36:38.

involving MPs. That the alldgations had to be significantly mord likely

:36:39.:36:45.

than not to be true. The second is the provision we should suspend the

:36:46.:36:50.

enquiry if there was any danger it might be prejudicing the crhminal

:36:51.:36:54.

proceeding. It was this that led to the enquiry being suspended at least

:36:55.:37:00.

twice and which meant work to complete the enquiry was delayed

:37:01.:37:05.

until December 2015. When the CPS announced it would not bring

:37:06.:37:09.

corporate charges against Ndws International. This clear the way

:37:10.:37:12.

for us to look at all the allegations made by CMS comlittee.

:37:13.:37:17.

To reach our conclusions, the committee examined the eviddnce

:37:18.:37:23.

before the CMS committee up to 012 and documentary evidence whhch has

:37:24.:37:25.

emerged since the relevant to the allegations. We took into account

:37:26.:37:30.

publicly available material such as that given to the Leveson enquiring.

:37:31.:37:34.

Also requested further eviddnce from the enquiry's subjects, the Crown

:37:35.:37:41.

Prosecution Service, the police and others. Most of those we approach

:37:42.:37:44.

cooperated with us and we are grateful for that. The exception to

:37:45.:37:49.

this was where lawyers for the enquiry's subject seem determined to

:37:50.:37:53.

raise procedural issues rather than engage with matters of substance. We

:37:54.:37:58.

have published all the correspondence relating to the

:37:59.:38:03.

enquiry so that anyone with time or interest can see for themselves how

:38:04.:38:06.

co-operative different parthes have been. At the end of this careful

:38:07.:38:11.

consideration and analysis, we concluded there was sufficidnt

:38:12.:38:16.

evidence to support findings that Colin Myler and Tom Crone, Tom Crone

:38:17.:38:23.

on two accounts, had misled the committee and were there in contempt

:38:24.:38:27.

of the House. We did not find sufficient evidence for a third

:38:28.:38:31.

allegation against Mr Crone nor any of the allegations made by the CMS

:38:32.:38:36.

committee against Mr Hinton. Nor did we find sufficient evidence of a

:38:37.:38:43.

breach on the part of News International was some conftsion in

:38:44.:38:46.

this report over pinpointing the corporate body which could be

:38:47.:38:51.

accused of misleading the committee. I would invite anyone who dhsagrees

:38:52.:38:56.

with our findings to re-exaline the evidence before us and to bdar in

:38:57.:39:00.

mind, the standard of proof. I repeat our concern was very

:39:01.:39:04.

specific, did these named enquiry subjects to give misleading evidence

:39:05.:39:08.

as set out in the allegations of chapter eight of the CMS report We

:39:09.:39:15.

have recommended that Mr Myler and Mr Crone be formally admonished by

:39:16.:39:19.

the House. We believe this hs a significant step although

:39:20.:39:22.

individuals may be criticisdd on motions in the House, as we saw last

:39:23.:39:29.

week, that is different to the House directly admonishing witnesses for

:39:30.:39:32.

obstructing the work of a committee. It shows her seriously the committee

:39:33.:39:36.

regards these offences and ht seeks to involve the House in this way. I

:39:37.:39:42.

know some fear we haven't gone far enough. The Amendment had not been

:39:43.:39:49.

selected today suggest that. Disappointed to be deprived of the

:39:50.:39:53.

theatre of the enquiry subjdcts being dragged to the bar of the

:39:54.:39:56.

House, and the amendments that have not been caught. That has not

:39:57.:40:03.

happened in modern times, even against two members of this House in

:40:04.:40:08.

92, who were admonished by resolution and not being brought to

:40:09.:40:12.

the bar of the House. We ought to be conscious of that as to how we treat

:40:13.:40:16.

one another and also people outside as well. 1957 was the last time a

:40:17.:40:23.

process was taken against an individual concerned. It was

:40:24.:40:27.

described in the House by the Deputy Speaker as a medieval pantolime

:40:28.:40:31.

That was objected to and thd Speaker of the day, Speaker Morrison,

:40:32.:40:37.

accepted it wasn't a pantomhme but just a medieval drama. He accepted

:40:38.:40:43.

it on that occasion. I want to bring us a little further. The former

:40:44.:40:54.

clerk to the House, gave wrhtten evidence in 2013, and considered, I

:40:55.:40:58.

quote, the possibility of h`uling people to the bar of the Hotse and

:40:59.:41:03.

admonishing them, would provide a theatre of the absurd. I have to

:41:04.:41:08.

say, I think the former chidf clerk to this House is right. In 0992 it

:41:09.:41:14.

was for members to be reprilanded by resolution only. The committee

:41:15.:41:21.

considered a form of admonishment that was appropriate and decided

:41:22.:41:25.

firmly against summoning Mr Myler and Mr Crone to the bar.

:41:26.:41:30.

That risks moving the focus from the facts of the case, published with

:41:31.:41:36.

our report in great detail, to making a fair process... Sorry, to

:41:37.:41:43.

the punishment of the case. Therefore, making it effecthvely a

:41:44.:41:48.

show trial, for want of a bdtter expression. It seems to me `nd to

:41:49.:41:53.

the committee, that would not be good to this House and anybody else,

:41:54.:41:56.

even if those powers were around. We should remember that in 1957, the

:41:57.:42:02.

proceedings of this house wdre not broadcast. There was no such thing

:42:03.:42:08.

as social media. But we recognise now that everything we do is much

:42:09.:42:12.

more public. I am sure that Mr Cronin and Mr Myler will not regard

:42:13.:42:17.

to date's events as being a light matter. -- Mr Crone. Looking at the

:42:18.:42:22.

findings of this committee `nd the evidence that is their fall to see.

:42:23.:42:29.

I could say much more and how they are enforced but I will rettrn to

:42:30.:42:33.

that matter if the House agrees to the proposals from the leaddr of the

:42:34.:42:36.

house that the Committee of Privileges should examine the

:42:37.:42:40.

exercise and enforcement in relation to select committees and contempts.

:42:41.:42:45.

As the committee points out in our report, this has been unresolved for

:42:46.:42:49.

too long. It is right that we should go away and look at it and come back

:42:50.:42:54.

with some workable recommendations. I believe it is better that that is

:42:55.:42:58.

done away from any current privileges report. Or any ctrrent

:42:59.:43:04.

inquiry that is taking placd. I hope the leader can reassure us that

:43:05.:43:08.

unlike in the past, time will be found for the House to debate and

:43:09.:43:12.

come to an agreement on what ever recommendations we make in our

:43:13.:43:16.

report. I say to my honourable friend, the member for the Rhondda,

:43:17.:43:20.

we have to get the power th`t this place has in the context of the

:43:21.:43:23.

21st-century. And lost centtries before. That is important. ,- and

:43:24.:43:30.

not centuries before. I am sure others, if it is agreed tod`y and by

:43:31.:43:34.

the committee, will have thd opportunity to give evidencd to the

:43:35.:43:37.

Privileges Committee about what powers we have and how we should

:43:38.:43:41.

exercise those powers. This inquiry has taken a long time. The committee

:43:42.:43:46.

has done its best to. Reach a fair verdict with fair process -, best to

:43:47.:43:51.

reach a fair verdict. I think we have done that. I asked the House to

:43:52.:43:53.

support the motion before it today. In my initial reaction on the day of

:43:54.:44:04.

the report, I said I was pldased the Privileges Committee agreed with our

:44:05.:44:08.

2012 report that Colin Myler and Tom Crone had misled us. And thdy have

:44:09.:44:14.

been found in contempt. I m`de those comments, which are on my wdbsite,

:44:15.:44:18.

following a statement from Les Hinton, the former executivd

:44:19.:44:21.

Chairman of News International, which predicted claims he h`d been

:44:22.:44:25.

exonerated. Clearly, this rdport provides no substance for that. Nor

:44:26.:44:30.

does it provide any substance for Mr Hinton's claims in his statdment

:44:31.:44:34.

that the CMS committee had reached false findings in 2012. In ly

:44:35.:44:39.

comments, you also said I found the second half of the report w`s more

:44:40.:44:46.

disappointing. -- I also sahd. I have some questions about a part of

:44:47.:44:50.

the bridge committee bot methodology. -- part of the

:44:51.:44:55.

Privileges Committee's. Can I join my right honourable friend hn my

:44:56.:45:01.

sympathy with the committee in its long interrupted inquiry. It clearly

:45:02.:45:04.

received only grudging and not full cooperation from three of the

:45:05.:45:08.

subjects, Colin Myler, Les Hinton and News International and their

:45:09.:45:12.

solicitors. I am afraid that is all too familiar and experience, which

:45:13.:45:16.

we have through all our report into phone hacking. Let me turn to

:45:17.:45:22.

chapter six on Les Hinton. Lr Hinton, often described as Rupert

:45:23.:45:26.

Murdoch's right-hand man, w`s the executive Chairman of News

:45:27.:45:28.

International until December 20 7 and resigned as chief executive of

:45:29.:45:32.

Dow Jones, another News Corp subsidiary in New York, in July 2000

:45:33.:45:36.

and 11. Within a week of thd closure of the News of the World, the fact

:45:37.:45:42.

is speaks for itself. -- July 2 00 and 11. He was not full and frank in

:45:43.:45:45.

his evidence to our committde about payments made to the convicted

:45:46.:45:49.

reporter Clive Goodman or their purpose, which was to buy shlence.

:45:50.:45:57.

Nor over suspicions about the extent of phone hacking beyond one rogue

:45:58.:45:58.

reporter and one rogue hackdr. One only has to look at the detailed

:45:59.:46:07.

memo from Harbord and Ann Ldwis lawyers to the group, he also misled

:46:08.:46:13.

us over claims overfull and rigorous investigation into phone hacking

:46:14.:46:18.

happened on his watch. It cdrtainly did not. Regarding Mr Hinton, the

:46:19.:46:20.

Privileges Committee makes three findings, each of no contempt.

:46:21.:46:26.

Firstly, regarding payments to Clive Goodman the report concludes that he

:46:27.:46:30.

failed to tell us, yet cert`inly would have remembered his role in

:46:31.:46:34.

authorising a ?90,000 payoff to a convicted criminal. It finds no

:46:35.:46:41.

contempt as a conclusion particularly difficult. I fhnd that

:46:42.:46:45.

a little confusing and surprising because we certainly and un`nimously

:46:46.:46:48.

didn't find it quite diffictlt. Secondly, regarding the knowledge of

:46:49.:46:53.

the allegations of knowledgd of phone hacking at News of thd World,

:46:54.:46:57.

and documents report Mr Hinton received a letter from Clivd Goodman

:46:58.:47:00.

in 2011 appealing his dismissal in which he implicated other sdnior

:47:01.:47:01.

members of staff. -- 2007. Subsequently he told us and our

:47:02.:47:09.

committee he had never been provided with any suspicions of wide

:47:10.:47:12.

involvement, something he ndver sought to correct. -- wide

:47:13.:47:17.

involvement. The privileges report says the following "On that basis,

:47:18.:47:22.

we agree that Les Hinton's dvidence was misleading, because it did not

:47:23.:47:26.

reveal the Clive Goodman, the source of one of those allegations." In the

:47:27.:47:31.

following paragraph, 270, the report goes on to conclude that thd

:47:32.:47:36.

allegations that Mr Hinton lisled us is not significantly more lhkely

:47:37.:47:39.

than not to be true, therefore makes no finding of content. Madal Deputy

:47:40.:47:43.

Speaker, I am not the only person to find this conclusion rather

:47:44.:47:45.

contradictory and somewhat confusing. I won't delay with the

:47:46.:47:49.

report's that finding in thhs chapter about the payment of Mr

:47:50.:47:54.

Goodman's legal fees, althotgh my honourable friend for Shipton may

:47:55.:47:58.

wish to ask questions. I have said enough about Mr Hinton. What I would

:47:59.:48:02.

say is that throughout our investigations, we found patterns of

:48:03.:48:06.

payments, settlements and confidentiality clauses, whhch

:48:07.:48:10.

clearly had one aim in mind: to suppress the truth about phone

:48:11.:48:14.

hacking from coming out. Thhs brings me to the report's seven ch`pter,

:48:15.:48:19.

relating to News International, since renamed News UK, which was

:48:20.:48:23.

apparent of newspapers which ran and published the News of the World and

:48:24.:48:28.

the Sun The Privileges Commhttee takes a rather narrow appro`ch from

:48:29.:48:31.

the outset of this chapter `s to whether News International htself

:48:32.:48:35.

was in contempt. Is looks n`mely to quote" identify the individtal who

:48:36.:48:41.

could be a controlling mind, such that their written or evidence could

:48:42.:48:45.

be fairly set to be on behalf and by the company". That is tantalount to

:48:46.:48:50.

saying the statements by thd company itself or individuals senior

:48:51.:48:52.

employees or its lawyers, whth plenty of chance to correct the

:48:53.:48:57.

record, are not binding. And the report concludes that only the

:48:58.:49:01.

executive Chairman by that test or the chief executive giving direct

:49:02.:49:05.

evidence at the relevant tile, Les Hinton, James Murdoch or Rebekah

:49:06.:49:08.

Brooks, fit the bill. This hs rather contestable. It also goes on to say

:49:09.:49:15.

regarding corporate liability that it is unclear why we as a committee

:49:16.:49:19.

chose to focus on the parent News International model News group

:49:20.:49:22.

newspapers. This is also a rather narrow point. The Privileges

:49:23.:49:27.

Committee did not ask us before its report though I had to shed light on

:49:28.:49:30.

why we chose that route. It was not an issue that was raised before we

:49:31.:49:34.

reached our findings, when the current clerk of committees was

:49:35.:49:36.

acting as our committee clerk and when the recently retired Speaker

:49:37.:49:41.

was giving advice. The titld of the 2004 the board was indeed "News

:49:42.:49:45.

International and phone hacking . -- that report was. I should mdntion

:49:46.:49:50.

uncertainty I have about thd methodology of the Privilegds

:49:51.:49:54.

Committee. It reviewed inter-alia all of the written evidence given to

:49:55.:49:58.

us but that is clearly not the sum of our knowledge. It also s`id it

:49:59.:50:01.

reviewed other publicly avahlable documents. But it is unclear whether

:50:02.:50:07.

those included in particular caught evidence in the myriad of the civil

:50:08.:50:11.

phone hacking claims and, sdcondly, press releases from News

:50:12.:50:13.

International itself. We certainly did consider these. And the whole

:50:14.:50:18.

behaviour of the organisation over a long period of time, making our

:50:19.:50:21.

findings. They were not alldgations, they were findings. Throughout, we

:50:22.:50:26.

sought the truth beyond the initial one rogue reporter defends. We were

:50:27.:50:31.

clearly not alone -- reportdd defence. Along with immediate

:50:32.:50:35.

investigations, the Guardian and the New York Times, Rafter packhng

:50:36.:50:40.

victims also sued in. The chvil courts the pattern in each case the

:50:41.:50:45.

whole organisation was alwaxs the same, denials, misleading statements

:50:46.:50:48.

and invasion until forced grudgingly to make admissions. This extended to

:50:49.:50:54.

out-of-court settlements with strict confidence Yarde clauses, to avoid

:50:55.:50:56.

cross-examination in the witness box. And in the case of the

:50:57.:51:02.

investigator Glenmore care, to indemnities and costs being paid as

:51:03.:51:06.

long as he played ball. We know and knew this from all of the court

:51:07.:51:12.

documents. In July, 2011, only after closing News of the World, News

:51:13.:51:15.

Corporation and News Intern`tional change tack, they set up thdir

:51:16.:51:18.

so-called management and st`ndards committee to handle the scandal But

:51:19.:51:23.

any notion that afterwards so called a zero tolerance, as the report

:51:24.:51:28.

describes it, equated to opdnness and full cooperation in reality is

:51:29.:51:33.

completely wrong. We had to probe at Digg and cajole, as did the lawyers

:51:34.:51:40.

in the civil cases -- and dhg. During the enquiries, News

:51:41.:51:43.

International issued misleading and false statements including press

:51:44.:51:48.

releases on the 10th of Julx 20 9 denying a Guardian newspaper story

:51:49.:51:52.

and 4th of February 2010 th`t attacked our previous report. At the

:51:53.:51:56.

time of that report, News International's chief executive was

:51:57.:51:59.

Rebekah Brooks, to whom I w`nt to come to in a moment. As far as Les

:52:00.:52:02.

Hinton is concerned, I've s`id enough. I will not dwell too much on

:52:03.:52:07.

James Murdoch either, safetx note his lack of curiosity as we turned

:52:08.:52:11.

it over key items and events over which he was made aware durhng his

:52:12.:52:16.

tenure including the damning opinion from Michael Silver leaves PC in

:52:17.:52:19.

June 2008 and a settlement with Gordon Taylor, the professional

:52:20.:52:24.

footballers Association, to which it related. In evidence, the Mtrdoch

:52:25.:52:29.

family rested on a letter from their lawyers to claim that there had been

:52:30.:52:33.

a proper investigation. In ` key memo to us, the lawyers told us they

:52:34.:52:37.

were not entitled to do so. The Murdoch family were either listaken

:52:38.:52:38.

or confused. These senior people were far from

:52:39.:52:45.

the only News International executives from whom we took

:52:46.:52:49.

evidence. Tom Crone, for instance, who lists report findings in

:52:50.:52:54.

contempt was the legal manager for News group newspapers and Ndws

:52:55.:53:00.

International. In key ways, our 2012 report was unfinished busindss.

:53:01.:53:04.

Owing to the imminent criminal charges, we made no findings in

:53:05.:53:07.

respect of the News of the World's former editor, Andy Coulson, nor in

:53:08.:53:12.

respect of Rebekah Brooks. Whether the committee wishes to do so and

:53:13.:53:15.

rake back over old ground is clearly a matter for the chair and hts

:53:16.:53:22.

members. In June, 2014, Andx Coulson was convicted of conspiracy of phone

:53:23.:53:24.

hacking and Rebekah Brooks was acquitted. That these chargds was

:53:25.:53:29.

not related evidence given to us as to whether she had misled otr

:53:30.:53:30.

committee. In the report on page 112, the

:53:31.:53:38.

privilege committee had constrained Evans in the light of the criminal

:53:39.:53:41.

cases to the Levenson inquiry and then to us in 19th of June, 200 and

:53:42.:53:47.

eight after she resigned as chief executive at cannot be said to be on

:53:48.:53:53.

behalf of News International. She was sitting alongside the Mtrdochs

:53:54.:53:56.

at the time. The report goes on to conclude that there are therefore no

:53:57.:54:01.

particular matters arising from her all evidence to us in 2011. I am

:54:02.:54:06.

afraid to say that I am not the only one who would beg to differ with

:54:07.:54:08.

this narrow, premature conclusion. Rebekah Brooks is now the chief

:54:09.:54:16.

executive of News UK, so much for Rupert Murdoch's penitence, this is

:54:17.:54:17.

the most humble day of my lhfe. Is it not a curious irony that

:54:18.:54:27.

because of the Bill of Rights, neither Lord Justice Leverson, nor

:54:28.:54:35.

the courts when integrating Rebekah Brooks could ask her why is answered

:54:36.:54:45.

to me in 2011, she said yes. When I asked her if she had ever p`id a

:54:46.:54:48.

police officer. I agree with my honourable friend. This shows the

:54:49.:54:52.

long record of Miss Rebekah Brooks declining to come to this house and

:54:53.:54:56.

giving evidence to us from which we have since taken issue. I whll come

:54:57.:55:04.

to a conclusion shortly. In July, 2011, in evidence to us, Rebekah

:55:05.:55:09.

Brooks repeated one central assertion, she said "The fact is

:55:10.:55:12.

that since the sienna Miller documents came into our possession

:55:13.:55:16.

at the end of December 2010, this was the first time that we, the

:55:17.:55:19.

senior management at the colpany at the time, had seen some doctmentary

:55:20.:55:22.

evidence relating to a currdnt employee. The Sienna Miller case was

:55:23.:55:29.

seminal in terms of disclostre. She went on to say it was only when we

:55:30.:55:35.

saw the Sienna Miller documdntation that we realised the severity of the

:55:36.:55:40.

situation." We know that by then News International had plenty in its

:55:41.:55:42.

possession to suggest hacking was widespread. We know it was Rebekah

:55:43.:55:48.

Brooks who personally negothated the big out-of-court settlement with Max

:55:49.:55:52.

Clifford, all wrapped up in confidentiality, just days `fter our

:55:53.:55:57.

2010 report. As the Privileges Committee reported, we know that she

:55:58.:55:59.

was present with other people from News International at the mdeting

:56:00.:56:04.

with their lawyers on the 20th of January, 2010, to discuss Mr

:56:05.:56:08.

Clifford's civil claim. I al grateful but would he agree with me

:56:09.:56:12.

that the role of Tom Crone's legal manager would be to act on behalf of

:56:13.:56:16.

the company to gather whatever advice he needed to, to advhse level

:56:17.:56:20.

within the company, senior dxecutive at all levels. Impending issues and

:56:21.:56:24.

problems with therefore, his right to -- it is much to assume he would

:56:25.:56:28.

have made anyone available to his opinion the matter Michael

:56:29.:56:33.

Silverleaf? I thank the new chair. There are disputes about who told

:56:34.:56:38.

what to whom at what time. H want to come onto something in a molent

:56:39.:56:40.

about which there has been no dispute, if you will bear whth me.

:56:41.:56:44.

With Rebekah Brooks, back in 20 6, when she was editor of the Sun the

:56:45.:56:52.

police informed her that her own phone had been hacked and courtesy

:56:53.:56:54.

of evidence, committed to the Leveson Inquiry in 2004, we know

:56:55.:56:58.

that she had a long convers`tion with a police source that w`s

:56:59.:57:03.

related to Tom Crone and thdn by him in an e-mail to Andy Coulson on the

:57:04.:57:05.

15th of September 2000 and six. That e-mail referred to over 10

:57:06.:57:16.

victims across all walks of life. Not just the Royal family that would

:57:17.:57:20.

have been of interest to Clhve Goodman. Reviewing all the lengthy

:57:21.:57:25.

correspondence the committed had at the time, Rebekah Brooks led us a

:57:26.:57:29.

merry dance for nine months before the 2010 report saying she would

:57:30.:57:33.

give evidence in person, thdn declining. In her final written

:57:34.:57:39.

reply on the 8th of Februarx 20 0, she had this to say but what had

:57:40.:57:46.

been known at News Internathonal. I understand that at some stage

:57:47.:57:51.

between arrests of Mr Molk `ir and Mr Goodman on eight of August 2 06,

:57:52.:57:58.

it became known from inform`tion provided by the police that Mr Molk

:57:59.:58:02.

air had accessed the voice lails of other people other than roy`l

:58:03.:58:08.

employees. It was not known how many. Compare that with the EE mile

:58:09.:58:15.

in September. She does not tell my right honourable friend frol Maldon

:58:16.:58:20.

that she herself received the information from a police source.

:58:21.:58:26.

And the final sentence appe`rs to be a complete untruth. The e-m`il sides

:58:27.:58:31.

to 110 victims. A very prechse number. Was that a number m`de up?

:58:32.:58:41.

It contradicts the central `ssertion the sienna Miller case was Rebekah

:58:42.:58:45.

Brooks' moment of epiphany hn her knowledge and the severity four

:58:46.:58:51.

years later. It merits closdr analysis compared with the other

:58:52.:58:57.

replies Rebekah Brooks gave us than is evident from the privileges

:58:58.:59:01.

committee report. On all thdse grounds therefore, I do belheve the

:59:02.:59:05.

committee is wrong to be un`ble to draw the conclusion that News

:59:06.:59:11.

International Miss led us and it is premature in not considering its

:59:12.:59:16.

committed contempt. In conclusion, as far as Parliamentary privilege is

:59:17.:59:19.

concerned, what is important is what happens in the future. The committee

:59:20.:59:28.

is right to note the work the joint committees note that this h`s not

:59:29.:59:40.

been taken forward. We asked the Murdoch family to appear in front of

:59:41.:59:45.

us because we knew they werd in the country, to apologise to thd family

:59:46.:59:51.

of Millie Dowler. The uncertainty over the next step was, what if they

:59:52.:59:57.

declined to come. We asked for advice on what the sanctions might

:59:58.:00:01.

be in this day and age in mhsleading the select committee. We fotnd

:00:02.:00:06.

behind the rhetoric, the Parliamentary Emperor appardntly had

:00:07.:00:10.

no clothes and this situation needs urgently addressing. The qudstion is

:00:11.:00:20.

on the order paper. We now come to the backbench motion on the select

:00:21.:00:25.

committee report on young pdople's mental health. Helen Hayes to move.

:00:26.:00:33.

I beg to move this House has considered the motion as on the

:00:34.:00:37.

order paper which concerns the report of the select committee on

:00:38.:00:42.

young people's mental health on the government's response. I am grateful

:00:43.:00:46.

to the backbench business committee for allocating time to this debate

:00:47.:00:50.

which was supported by more than 50 members across the House and to the

:00:51.:00:54.

honourable member from South Cambridgeshire was sponsoring it. I

:00:55.:00:58.

want to pay tribute to the lany health professionals and voluntary

:00:59.:01:03.

sector organisations who work in mental health services for xoung

:01:04.:01:07.

people. The teachers and te`ching assistants who support young people

:01:08.:01:11.

with mental health difficulties in classrooms and the youth workers

:01:12.:01:14.

seeking to support young people in many different ways. It is not a

:01:15.:01:18.

debate about the commitment of those who work tirelessly to support our

:01:19.:01:22.

young people. It is a debatd about the resources and the frame or with

:01:23.:01:28.

which they are working which reflects our collective ability to

:01:29.:01:32.

deliver the outcomes we need. The years select committee report was

:01:33.:01:36.

published in 2015 and has a consequence of more than 90,000

:01:37.:01:40.

young people voting for mental health in the 2014 make your mark

:01:41.:01:45.

ballot. It is an important piece of work because it is a report on

:01:46.:01:50.

mental health by young people, about young people. Since I was elected, I

:01:51.:01:55.

have been struck by how oftdn young people's mental health issuds have

:01:56.:02:00.

been raised with me, whether by individual constituents, struggling

:02:01.:02:03.

to access the support that they or their children need. Doctors in my

:02:04.:02:09.

local accident Emergency departments, or teachers in schools,

:02:10.:02:12.

the issue is raised frequently and no one thinks the current shtuation

:02:13.:02:16.

is close to being acceptabld. I would like to pay tribute to the

:02:17.:02:20.

youth select committee for the excellent rigorous support `nd clear

:02:21.:02:24.

recommendations which fall hnto three areas. Funding and thd state

:02:25.:02:29.

of services, a role for education and awareness, stigma and dhgital

:02:30.:02:36.

culture. The report concludds mental health services are significantly

:02:37.:02:39.

under ported and young people's mental health services, even more

:02:40.:02:45.

so. If the challenge is unprecedented. The report hhghlights

:02:46.:02:50.

significant problems in accdssing services, particularly in rdlation

:02:51.:02:54.

to first contact through GPs. It raises the urgent need for dvery

:02:55.:02:58.

young person in the UK to ldave school with a good understanding and

:02:59.:03:01.

awareness of mental health, empowered and equipped to look after

:03:02.:03:06.

their own mental health. I will give way.. Thank you. Some of thd issues

:03:07.:03:16.

on access could equally apply to adult services so there is ` cross

:03:17.:03:22.

between the two areas? I th`nk my honourable friend for his

:03:23.:03:25.

intervention. He is right to say that while we are discussing this

:03:26.:03:31.

today, many of the same isstes apply to mental health services across the

:03:32.:03:35.

board for all members of our communities. The government

:03:36.:03:39.

published a response in Jantary 20 16. The response was, on thd whole,

:03:40.:03:44.

disappointing. They referred mainly to work the government was `lready

:03:45.:03:49.

doing, rather than the additional work the government and othdr

:03:50.:03:53.

agencies clearly need to do. Most disappointing of all, a rejdcted the

:03:54.:03:58.

key recommendation that statutory levels of attainment in mental

:03:59.:04:01.

health education should be introduced for all young people I

:04:02.:04:06.

welcome the government has `nnounced some additional funding, but I

:04:07.:04:09.

remain very concerned about the current state of mental health

:04:10.:04:12.

services for young people and the resorts in love those services. I

:04:13.:04:18.

want to focus on the current state of services what I believe to be a

:04:19.:04:21.

crisis which is growing and not diminishing and demands a rdsponse

:04:22.:04:25.

which is more bold and comprehensive than that of which the government is

:04:26.:04:30.

taking. I will return to thd conclusions of the youth select

:04:31.:04:34.

committee report. One in fotr of us will experience mental ill-health in

:04:35.:04:39.

any given year. That means lental health is something which affects

:04:40.:04:42.

every of us. All others havd a friend or family member who has

:04:43.:04:47.

mental ill-health and many will experience it ourselves. In my life

:04:48.:04:50.

I have no close friends and family members who have suffered from

:04:51.:04:55.

severe anxiety that impacted on their daily lives, clinical

:04:56.:04:59.

depression and eating disorders There are few worse feelings than

:05:00.:05:03.

the worry for a loved one who seems unreachable in the pit of

:05:04.:05:06.

depression, except the worrx when that loved one is a child. @ll any

:05:07.:05:12.

of us once for our children and the young people we represent, hs that

:05:13.:05:15.

they grow up happy, healthy and resilient to the stresses and

:05:16.:05:20.

strains of our world. Watchhng a child struggle with clinical

:05:21.:05:24.

depression, severe anxiety or an eating disorder is devastathng.

:05:25.:05:30.

According to NHS statistics, one Intel children have a diagnosable

:05:31.:05:35.

mental health condition. Th`t is around three students in a typical

:05:36.:05:39.

classroom. Many more young people don't get diagnosed but expdrience a

:05:40.:05:44.

period of mental ill health or distress during their childhood or

:05:45.:05:47.

adolescence. The government's own measures found almost one in four

:05:48.:05:53.

children showed some evidence of mental health. Half of ment`l health

:05:54.:05:57.

problems are established by the age of 14 and three quarters by the age

:05:58.:06:03.

of 24. Suicide is the most common cause of death for boys aged between

:06:04.:06:07.

five and 19 and the second lost common for girls after that age

:06:08.:06:13.

after traffic accidents. A recent survey found 69% of girls aged seven

:06:14.:06:19.

to 21 feel they are not good enough and it's thought around one in eight

:06:20.:06:22.

young people self harm betwden the ages of 11 and 16. I will ghve way.

:06:23.:06:31.

I know she also has concerndd members in this place have hssues

:06:32.:06:40.

with serious youth violence. The she agree that mental ill-health is a

:06:41.:06:44.

trigger in gang and youth vholence and it deserves a concentrated focus

:06:45.:06:47.

from within the health servhce and government. There is very good

:06:48.:06:53.

practice out there, but it hs not widely available to help de`l with

:06:54.:07:00.

this problem? I thank my honourable friend for her intervention. It is

:07:01.:07:03.

an important point and it affects both of our constituencies, to a

:07:04.:07:14.

significant degree. Yet, only 0 7% of NHS funding is spent on xoung

:07:15.:07:22.

people's mental health. The Royal College of psychiatry also reports

:07:23.:07:25.

additional funding the government has committed is not getting to the

:07:26.:07:29.

front line. Responses to a recent freedom of information requdst from

:07:30.:07:34.

the member for Liverpool wax the tree, revealed that although the

:07:35.:07:38.

Secretary of State made a commitment the proportion of funding should be

:07:39.:07:42.

increasing everywhere this xear and this is desperately needed. 57 of

:07:43.:07:47.

the country's clinical commhssioning groups are reducing the proportion

:07:48.:07:51.

of funding for mental health services. Young minds reports that

:07:52.:07:55.

three quarters of young people with mental health problems may not get

:07:56.:08:00.

access to the treatment thex need. Services are an average is turning

:08:01.:08:03.

away nearly a quarter of chhldren referred to them for treatmdnt by

:08:04.:08:11.

concerned parents, GPs, teachers and others. This is supported bx a

:08:12.:08:19.

report saying many reported difficult reporting students onto

:08:20.:08:24.

health services in times of crisis, with 61% of respondents reporting

:08:25.:08:27.

their relationship as a college with local mental health services, is

:08:28.:08:32.

only fair, not very good or nonexistent. The thresholds for

:08:33.:08:36.

support are going up precisdly a time when at a time when deland is

:08:37.:08:41.

increasing. This can create a ticking time bomb of mental ill

:08:42.:08:44.

health for the future. The `verage waiting times for all providers for

:08:45.:08:50.

six months for a first appohntment and almost ten months beford the

:08:51.:08:54.

start of treatment. An investigation recently found three in fivd

:08:55.:08:59.

referrals from GPs are being batted back to primary care without any

:09:00.:09:03.

access to specialist support. When early intervention is not available,

:09:04.:09:08.

it is very often schools and colleges which ends up dealhng with

:09:09.:09:11.

the consequences and they are under resourced to do so. A recent survey

:09:12.:09:18.

found that only a third prilary schools have access to a

:09:19.:09:20.

school-based councillor and those who do have access, 59% havd a

:09:21.:09:24.

councillor on the school for one day a week or less. I will give way Can

:09:25.:09:33.

I commend the honourable melber for calling this debate on this

:09:34.:09:38.

important subject. It often comes up in my constituency. And the point

:09:39.:09:42.

she's making about school struggling to find support is something I have

:09:43.:09:46.

experienced in my constituency. I want to reiterate the point primary

:09:47.:09:50.

schools know they have children and secondary schools, who can benefit

:09:51.:09:53.

from specialist support and it is very hard for them to access it I

:09:54.:09:59.

thank the honourable member for her intervention. Well we focus on

:10:00.:10:04.

prevention and early intervdntion, we need to think of early

:10:05.:10:08.

intervention in terms of agd, as well as stage of mental ill health.

:10:09.:10:14.

As a consequence of the lack of early intervention support, the

:10:15.:10:18.

number of young people attending A because of a psychiatric condition

:10:19.:10:22.

has more than doubled. I have spoken to many doctors who tell me that

:10:23.:10:26.

when this happens and an unwell person presents at A needhng a

:10:27.:10:31.

CAMS inpatient bed, they frdquently wait days for a bed to be identified

:10:32.:10:35.

and then often that bed is hundreds of miles away from home. Ond south

:10:36.:10:40.

London hospital has provided me with data that shows a 37% year-on-year

:10:41.:10:46.

increase in the number of under 16 is being seen at A with a mental

:10:47.:10:52.

health condition. And an increase in the number of children being

:10:53.:10:55.

committed to an bed. I will give way. Would she agree with md, there

:10:56.:11:05.

is a shortage of beds, but one of the issues, particularly in cities

:11:06.:11:08.

like London is core polity housing. Where individuals could havd been

:11:09.:11:13.

treated at home, because of the lack of proper housing, that tre`tment

:11:14.:11:16.

cannot be delivered in the community? I thank him for that

:11:17.:11:23.

intervention. He is right to say there are multiple different causes

:11:24.:11:28.

and contributed factors to lental health, but also multiple

:11:29.:11:31.

contributory factors which present obstacles to addressing and

:11:32.:11:35.

providing treatment people need where they need it and houshng is

:11:36.:11:36.

one of them. And 69 people from south London

:11:37.:11:49.

where unable to receive pathent care in south London. Of these 44% out of

:11:50.:11:56.

London for their care. This issue of seriously ill young people being

:11:57.:12:00.

sent a long distance from home to access patient care needs to stop.

:12:01.:12:06.

It is distressing fraud -- for families and stops young people

:12:07.:12:10.

receiving the maximum support from family and friends to recovdr. When

:12:11.:12:15.

they are admitted to a unit, offer the service is not what it should

:12:16.:12:20.

be. The Care Quality Commission found 62% of units were inadequate

:12:21.:12:28.

or required improvements. A goal of parity of esteem for mental health

:12:29.:12:32.

was introduced into the sochal care act by an amendment of Labotr

:12:33.:12:36.

appears and was a landmark. We only need to think of this for a moment

:12:37.:12:42.

what our response would be hf the statistics for young people's mental

:12:43.:12:47.

health to our physical condhtion would realise how far we ard from

:12:48.:12:54.

parity being realised. If 74% of people with a bacterial infdction

:12:55.:12:58.

struggled to get access to ` treatment or almost a quartdr of

:12:59.:13:01.

referrals for cataracts werd turned away or of people with a chdst

:13:02.:13:06.

infection were forced to waht until they had pneumonia before hdlp was

:13:07.:13:11.

provided or those with a broken leg would be forced to be four days for

:13:12.:13:16.

treatment, it would be a national scandal. The state of mental health

:13:17.:13:20.

said this, especially for young people is a scandal. It just is not

:13:21.:13:26.

being recognised as such officially. Words alone cannot achieve parity of

:13:27.:13:31.

esteem, the government must start to act differently. What is necessary

:13:32.:13:35.

to transform mental health services for our young people? I want to

:13:36.:13:42.

return to the conclusions of the youth Select Committee report. The

:13:43.:13:46.

Royal College of Psychiatrists highlights three issues. Ond,

:13:47.:13:53.

increase funding for young people's mental health funding to gu`rantee

:13:54.:13:57.

the money will reach the ground for CAMHS. That is concern about the

:13:58.:14:01.

introduction of sustainabilhty and transformation plans across the NHS

:14:02.:14:06.

and resource implications. The Royal College of Psychiatrists suggest the

:14:07.:14:11.

introduction of ring fenced funding for CAMHS and reject plans which do

:14:12.:14:18.

children's mental health pl`ns in children's mental health pl`ns in

:14:19.:14:23.

their area. I hope ministers will commit to that today. Secondly,

:14:24.:14:29.

young people must be involvdd in the process of formulating policy to

:14:30.:14:33.

improve CAMHS. Research shows where young people have a clear voice in

:14:34.:14:37.

design, the end result refldcts a clear need of the patient. That

:14:38.:14:43.

government must improve mental health education in schools with the

:14:44.:14:46.

aim of ensuring young peopld leave schools with an understanding of

:14:47.:14:51.

mental health and how to help their own well-being. This recommdndation

:14:52.:14:58.

was made by the youth Select Committee and supported by the

:14:59.:15:01.

National Association of head teachers and other teaching unions,

:15:02.:15:07.

United Nations and many othdrs. While the government has introduced

:15:08.:15:12.

new plans for the curriculul, that is broad consensus across hdalth and

:15:13.:15:17.

education sectors that developing resilience, safeguarding yotng

:15:18.:15:20.

people, should not be left to chance. It should be a comptlsory

:15:21.:15:27.

part of the curriculum. I hope the government will reflect on the

:15:28.:15:31.

urgency of the situation and the consensus around the need for

:15:32.:15:35.

compulsory education and will make a commitment to introduce it. The

:15:36.:15:40.

Youth Select Committee report made many other practical

:15:41.:15:43.

recommendations, including regional commissioning, the developmdnt of

:15:44.:15:49.

health and support, the introduction of plans to support students through

:15:50.:15:53.

exam stress, I would welcomd an update from the Minister on the

:15:54.:15:58.

progress being made to deliver these excellent ideas. Finally, wd know

:15:59.:16:01.

one of the greatest barriers to delivering mental health support and

:16:02.:16:05.

services that our young people need has always been the stigma which

:16:06.:16:09.

surrounds mental health. I want to be a tribute to a brilliant piece of

:16:10.:16:13.

work recently published by the YMCA in partnership with the NHS, cold I

:16:14.:16:20.

am old, the research identifies the extent of the stigma of mental

:16:21.:16:24.

health, including three quarters of young people spoken to the leaving

:16:25.:16:29.

people with mental health problems are treated negatively. The project

:16:30.:16:35.

sought to address stigma directly by publishing a series of storhes about

:16:36.:16:40.

young people with their expdriences of mental health difficulty. It made

:16:41.:16:44.

for a very challenging readhng. I want to read a quote from the four

:16:45.:16:50.

words of the documents from corny comic aged 22. Having mental health

:16:51.:16:57.

difficulties is like being trapped inside 1000 invisible prisons, there

:16:58.:17:05.

are 1000 reasons as a young person being driven deeper into thd void.

:17:06.:17:07.

Not only isolated by the struggle is mentally but by that enveloped in a

:17:08.:17:09.

thick darkness, it is comprhsed of a thick darkness, it is comprhsed of a

:17:10.:17:19.

tangled web of myths, misunderstandings, this is

:17:20.:17:21.

misunderstanding. It is timd for them it is to be dispelled, the Web

:17:22.:17:26.

broken and the isolation to end It is time for us to be free to talk

:17:27.:17:29.

about our mental health difficulties or pulling so we get access to me

:17:30.:17:37.

need. Once conversation beghns, you break down misconceptions pdople

:17:38.:17:42.

hold. It is like being stood in the dark, untangling the web until the

:17:43.:17:47.

warmth of the Sun breaks through. The light reaches your eyes and you

:17:48.:17:51.

look around to say that you are not alone. When we talk about young

:17:52.:17:55.

talking about the well-being of our talking about the well-being of our

:17:56.:18:01.

precious children, their he`lth and happiness, the resilience of the

:18:02.:18:04.

next generation, the abilitx of young people to fulfil their

:18:05.:18:08.

potential and to be everythhng they can be. We are talking about the

:18:09.:18:13.

ways to stop more families from living with the heartbreak of the

:18:14.:18:16.

young person with mental ill-health and ways to stop more familhes from

:18:17.:18:21.

softening the devastation of our loss to suicide. There are few

:18:22.:18:25.

things more important than this and it is time the government got it

:18:26.:18:33.

right. I beg to move. Here here The question is as on the order paper.

:18:34.:18:40.

Thank you. The report brought to my attention by my local member of the

:18:41.:18:45.

youth Parliament who has bedn in the chamber for the youth Parli`ment

:18:46.:18:48.

debates and Lucy is in the public gallery to listen to the debate and

:18:49.:18:53.

has assisted me in formulathng my remarks today. As a result of

:18:54.:19:00.

contact with Lucy, I attenddd the Westminster Hall debate

:19:01.:19:03.

through administrative error I was through administrative error I was

:19:04.:19:10.

unable to be heard. I thank the honourable lady for bringing this to

:19:11.:19:15.

the chamber today. Before I go to the subject, I would thank the

:19:16.:19:18.

honourable lady and the backbench kit -- back bends business

:19:19.:19:26.

committee. As we all try to engage with young people more and lore it

:19:27.:19:30.

is important that the efforts of the youth Parliament get acknowledged

:19:31.:19:37.

and debated in here. As the former member of Lucy tells me, whdn they

:19:38.:19:40.

were looking for subjects for the youth Parliament, many times mental

:19:41.:19:47.

health is in the top 56 subjects that concern young people so it is

:19:48.:19:55.

important it is brought forward -- top five or six. The report is

:19:56.:20:00.

thorough. It makes several recommendations and conclushons as

:20:01.:20:05.

highlighted already. To get a better understanding of the issues facing

:20:06.:20:08.

young people in a modern agd that can lead to the mental health issues

:20:09.:20:14.

as out in the report. It is a long time since I was a young person

:20:15.:20:23.

Thank you. So I thought the best way to come to an understanding, the

:20:24.:20:28.

report actually says we shotld make use of the expertise of young people

:20:29.:20:35.

which is item 17 in the report so I decided to do this. I had a

:20:36.:20:40.

conversation with Lucy and `lso another 17-year-old young l`dy and

:20:41.:20:44.

ask them to tell me what thdir thoughts and experiences whdre as

:20:45.:20:50.

teenagers. And the pressures they face and the pressures for their

:20:51.:20:55.

young friends in this modern world. Both girls at A-level polithcs

:20:56.:21:00.

students. Lucy is from my constituency and Martha livds in

:21:01.:21:07.

Surrey. My remarks today ard very much based on the conversathons that

:21:08.:21:08.

we have had. Mental health hssues in we have had. Mental health hssues in

:21:09.:21:14.

any person of any age are often difficult to diagnose as has been

:21:15.:21:19.

highlighted. It is not like a broken leg you conceive. It is not as

:21:20.:21:25.

tangible. It can often be mhstaken for a bit of temporary emothonal

:21:26.:21:29.

upheaval or distress but in the young it can be put down to other

:21:30.:21:36.

things, pure teenage banks, raging hormones or just teenage moodiness.

:21:37.:21:44.

Consequently, these issues go unspotted and unnoticed and

:21:45.:21:47.

consequently untreated. By the time it is acknowledged and realhsed the

:21:48.:21:56.

problem has manifested so mtch it is harder to treat. Who should identify

:21:57.:22:03.

this programme -- this problem? It would be an adult, a parent,

:22:04.:22:08.

guardian or teacher. Becausd of that that is a generational gap. I'm sure

:22:09.:22:13.

heard the life of a teenager, you do heard the life of a teenager, you do

:22:14.:22:20.

not understand. But in this case, we actually do not understand `s

:22:21.:22:24.

adults. So what should we look for? How do that manifested itself? There

:22:25.:22:29.

are various symptoms which `re easy to miss. It could be anxietx,

:22:30.:22:37.

depression, eating disorders or even contemplation of suicide or maybe

:22:38.:22:41.

even self harm. Self harm c`n sometimes be seen as a cry for help

:22:42.:22:46.

or attention but more often it is a symptom of a much deeper problem.

:22:47.:22:54.

When can it? In days gone bx, pinch points for stress were usually exam

:22:55.:23:02.

time. Made for all levels or final exams but in a modern world there

:23:03.:23:05.

are so many pressures on yotng people which can bring about these

:23:06.:23:09.

problems. How are things different to when they were young? Wh`t are

:23:10.:23:14.

the extra factors and circulstances that we did not have to contend with

:23:15.:23:19.

but the modern-day young persons -- the young teenager has to? Hf we

:23:20.:23:25.

consider the question whethdr looking at the impact of social

:23:26.:23:31.

media, we would be dedicating our duty. Whether it be Facebook,

:23:32.:23:36.

Twitter, Snapchat or many more in this chamber we have not he`rd of. A

:23:37.:23:43.

few years ago these things were a figment of imagination, there were

:23:44.:23:46.

science-fiction in my day btt now they are part of everyday lhfe and

:23:47.:23:50.

that the modern teenager, they are the preferred method of

:23:51.:23:54.

communication. These technologies have much to commend them and I d

:23:55.:24:00.

think -- advantages to all of those, I am sure many of us to eat and have

:24:01.:24:08.

Facebook pages and websites. Many of us communicate via e-mail whth our

:24:09.:24:11.

constituents to make us mord accessible than ever and thhs is

:24:12.:24:15.

good. So is communication bdtween young people. The days, and I will

:24:16.:24:21.

betray my age, of sending notes to betray my age, of sending notes to

:24:22.:24:28.

the object of your affection in the classroom with SWT LK writtdn on the

:24:29.:24:34.

back of the envelope. Marth` and Katie -- Martha and Lucy did not

:24:35.:24:39.

know what this was. Those d`ys are long gone. Everything is done via

:24:40.:24:43.

social media. It is out in the open for everyone to see and it hs

:24:44.:24:49.

therefore ever. The letter hs read and is not reciprocated, thrown

:24:50.:24:56.

away. In social media it relain so ever. It brings with it pressures,

:24:57.:25:02.

relationships, appearance, fashion and style are all analysed hn the

:25:03.:25:08.

public career. Relationships, attitudes and opinions when she

:25:09.:25:12.

privately with friends are out for the world to see. It is seelingly

:25:13.:25:18.

solicits a further comment `nd responds and it grows on thd basis

:25:19.:25:24.

of that. Things like chat groups on WhatsApp, it is easy for verbal

:25:25.:25:34.

teasing to become sinister. We here increasingly stories of cybdr

:25:35.:25:40.

bullying. And the posting of revenge pictures. I am sure we have all

:25:41.:25:44.

received comments online whhch we have seen as upsetting. If xou are

:25:45.:25:51.

teenager, uncertain and vulnerable, lacking in confidence, such remarks

:25:52.:25:57.

can have a shattering effect on your self-confidence and mental state. We

:25:58.:26:01.

look at media in general, it seeks to prevent -- present all young

:26:02.:26:06.

people as perfectly formed human beings. Reality programmes placed

:26:07.:26:11.

pressure on everyone to be absolutely perfect. The slightest

:26:12.:26:15.

imperfection can become a m`jor issue. We here about body ilage and

:26:16.:26:21.

young people's attitude to ht, again the desire to be perfect -- to be

:26:22.:26:30.

perfect. Imperfection is ridiculed and this is amplified with social

:26:31.:26:35.

media. Likes and no one likds and comments can become very crtel,

:26:36.:26:42.

especially if you are teenager and are vulnerable. Again it can damage

:26:43.:26:46.

the self esteem and mental health of a young person.

:26:47.:26:51.

We look at the society, mobhle phones, clothes and computers.

:26:52.:27:00.

Anything less than the optilum is seen as a problem. And the pressure

:27:01.:27:07.

it puts on young people. I `m not saying if a person doesn't have the

:27:08.:27:11.

latest iPhone, it will lead to mental health problems, but if

:27:12.:27:14.

someone is vulnerable with low esteem, these are the things that

:27:15.:27:19.

can exploit those insecurithes to an extent they can be pushed into a

:27:20.:27:24.

territory which we are disctssing today. Madam Deputy Speaker, we need

:27:25.:27:28.

to remember all these presstres and I have only mentioned a few, all

:27:29.:27:33.

impact young people at the time when the minds, brains and characters are

:27:34.:27:39.

still growing and forming. @s we get older we form our minds and

:27:40.:27:43.

personalities, we developed our own resilience to the many of these

:27:44.:27:47.

outside pressures. I am grateful and I think he is making a perthnent

:27:48.:27:54.

case and is giving a very accurate analysis of the pressures on our

:27:55.:27:58.

teenagers. Doesn't he agree with me, it is important there is an

:27:59.:28:04.

integrated solution that involves education and NHS response, so

:28:05.:28:08.

schools can get in very early in terms of tackling some of the

:28:09.:28:12.

behaviours that lead to somd of these poor outcomes with mental

:28:13.:28:16.

health? He is right, and th`t is remarked in the report, in the

:28:17.:28:21.

conclusion about the school approach and it says when people leave

:28:22.:28:24.

school, they should be convdrsant with all the issues around lental

:28:25.:28:28.

health. The honourable lady also referred to that in her spedch. As

:28:29.:28:33.

we get older we develop our own resilience. In young people, we have

:28:34.:28:38.

a situation where that development isn't complete and that is where the

:28:39.:28:41.

schools should play a part hn helping to develop that reshlience.

:28:42.:28:47.

As we know, there is a stigla attached to mental health, `nd more

:28:48.:28:52.

so in the case of young people. They don't want to admit it for the fear

:28:53.:29:00.

of being labelled. Again, this also leads to a situation of potdntial, I

:29:01.:29:04.

have used the word denial, H'm not sure that is right, but it

:29:05.:29:09.

exacerbates the problem. Thdre is a lack of willingness and fear to say,

:29:10.:29:14.

I have a problem and I need help. There should mean no stigma attached

:29:15.:29:18.

to any young people admitting they are struggling and they havd certain

:29:19.:29:21.

issues they need to deal with. Neither should there be any barrier

:29:22.:29:26.

for parents to make a simil`r plea. There should be somewhere young

:29:27.:29:32.

person can go, a point wherd a young person can go without fear of

:29:33.:29:35.

ridicule or anything else, where they can go and ask for help. They

:29:36.:29:40.

should not be judged or labdls, either by their peers or society.

:29:41.:29:45.

Parents can be the strongest help and support for any young pdrson and

:29:46.:29:50.

we can look at family support units as well. We should be able to enable

:29:51.:29:57.

parents to play as fall apart as they can. I can envisage a situation

:29:58.:30:02.

where we have a person getthng help at the age of 15. When they turn 16,

:30:03.:30:07.

they are deemed as an adult and their parents are almost excluded

:30:08.:30:11.

are playing a full part in that because at 16 they are able to make

:30:12.:30:17.

their own decisions and the parent who is attentive and trying to help

:30:18.:30:20.

will be told, we cannot discuss it with you. We should look if there is

:30:21.:30:27.

a way around that. In concltsion, I would like to thank people for their

:30:28.:30:36.

help. They have given me an insight into the world of a modern,

:30:37.:30:41.

21st-century teenager. Things that impact on their lives, but did not

:30:42.:30:46.

impact on my life as a teen`ger It was an educational experience for me

:30:47.:30:51.

and I pay tribute for their candour and their honesty. As I havd already

:30:52.:30:56.

said, to talk about this thhng freely takes a lot and I pax tribute

:30:57.:31:00.

to them. Many of the remarks have come as a result of their

:31:01.:31:08.

contribution. I would say to the Minister, let us not, in anx way

:31:09.:31:11.

fall into the trap of dismissing mental health issues in the young

:31:12.:31:14.

Azmi growing pains. It is a serious matter. I know she understands, but

:31:15.:31:19.

to make the help is needed, not only does it need to be readily

:31:20.:31:24.

available, easily available, but available for as long as it is

:31:25.:31:28.

needed for each person according to their individual needs. I w`nt to

:31:29.:31:38.

congratulate my honourable friend, and the member from South

:31:39.:31:41.

Cambridgeshire for securing this debate. I also want to congratulate

:31:42.:31:48.

the clearly, very talented xouth select committee for produchng such

:31:49.:31:53.

an excellent report. It highlights the need for additional and better

:31:54.:31:57.

mental health services for xoung people. It is a job very well done.

:31:58.:32:03.

For too long, those suffering from mental ill-health have recehved far

:32:04.:32:07.

less care and attention frol those suffering from physical aillents.

:32:08.:32:11.

Even though mental ill-health accounts for 28% of the tot`l burden

:32:12.:32:18.

of disease, it gets just 13$ of the NHS budget. One in four adults are

:32:19.:32:22.

diagnosed with a mental illness at some point in their lives. But only

:32:23.:32:26.

a quarter of them who need lental health services have access to them.

:32:27.:32:32.

Serious medical conditions `re going untreated and that is the dhsparity

:32:33.:32:39.

of esteem between physical `nd mental health for everybody. The

:32:40.:32:44.

government, health professionals, patients, the voluntary sector,

:32:45.:32:47.

everybody speaks of wishing to end. There is such a long way to go. The

:32:48.:32:53.

consequences of our neglect of mental health services are

:32:54.:32:56.

devastating. Over a third of people with mild mental health problems and

:32:57.:33:00.

almost two thirds of people with more severe mental health problems

:33:01.:33:06.

are in fact unemployed. Resdarch shows the vast majority wishes to

:33:07.:33:16.

work. Indeed, congratulate the select committee for this rdport as

:33:17.:33:22.

well. My honourable friend hs making an important point about thd number

:33:23.:33:25.

of those unemployed with mental health issues. I have been struck by

:33:26.:33:32.

the message from schools, one school in my constituency said thex are

:33:33.:33:38.

faring 14% of their pupils for mental health support. Does she

:33:39.:33:41.

agree with me, the early intervention is vital and also to

:33:42.:33:46.

recognise the work of members of the youth Parliament for raising these

:33:47.:33:54.

important issues with others? I totally agree with my honourable

:33:55.:33:58.

friend. As I go through my speech, I hope I can give an example that will

:33:59.:34:04.

show intervention for a verx, very young child is important because of

:34:05.:34:08.

the impact on the rest of the family. In early intervention can do

:34:09.:34:15.

a lot to mitigate against events and other difficulties occurring in the

:34:16.:34:19.

family with other family melbers. Unfortunately, tragically and

:34:20.:34:26.

outrageously, young person's mental health services receives less

:34:27.:34:31.

attention than adult servicds. Consequently, it has been c`lled the

:34:32.:34:37.

Cinderella of Cinderella services. In November 2014, the Health Select

:34:38.:34:41.

Committee found there were serious and deeply ingrained problels with

:34:42.:34:45.

the commissioning and provision of services for young people's mental

:34:46.:34:50.

health. Many providers reported increased waiting times and

:34:51.:34:54.

increased referral thresholds for specialist services, where patients

:34:55.:34:59.

would have to show severe sxmptoms to receive treatment, than they

:35:00.:35:03.

would have done in the past. GPs reported feeling ill equippdd and

:35:04.:35:06.

lacking in confidence when dealing with young people's mental health

:35:07.:35:12.

issues. The select committed found early intervention programmds were

:35:13.:35:15.

suffering from insecure or short-term funding or being cut

:35:16.:35:21.

altogether. There really is no excuse for this failing. People with

:35:22.:35:27.

lifetime mental health problems experienced symptoms by the age of

:35:28.:35:32.

14. And about 75% before thd age of 18. Catching these problems early

:35:33.:35:39.

could well lessen the severhty of adult problems, possibly saving the

:35:40.:35:44.

NHS and money in the long tdrm. I would suggest simply, more

:35:45.:35:48.

importantly, it will reduce unnecessary suffering and enable

:35:49.:35:53.

people to live better lives. I want to be fair to the governments, they

:35:54.:35:58.

have recognised there is a problem. They set up their children `nd young

:35:59.:36:03.

people's mental health and well-being task force in 2004. And

:36:04.:36:08.

that task force came back whth a number of recommendations in their

:36:09.:36:14.

2015 future in mind report. The task force found a number of problems

:36:15.:36:18.

with our services and the mdmber for North Norfolk, who was then the

:36:19.:36:22.

responsible minister said, there needed to be a fundamental shift in

:36:23.:36:26.

culture, with a much greater focus on prevention and early

:36:27.:36:31.

intervention. The task forcd rightly recognise, one of the challdnges

:36:32.:36:35.

facing young people was unsurprisingly funding. I w`s

:36:36.:36:41.

pleased the government responded by announcing an additional ?1.4

:36:42.:36:46.

billion of transitional funding for youth mental health services.

:36:47.:36:52.

However, this additional money needs to be considered in the context of

:36:53.:36:58.

the less encouraging overall picture of mental health services ftnding.

:36:59.:37:02.

NHS England's planning guid`nce states all CCG is a must increase

:37:03.:37:06.

their spend on mental health services by at least as much as

:37:07.:37:11.

their overall budget increase. But there have been warnings. Including

:37:12.:37:16.

from the mental health trusts that mental health funding is not

:37:17.:37:21.

properly ring fenced. And this target is being missed. Agahn, to

:37:22.:37:25.

follow in the steps of my honourable friend from Dulwich and West

:37:26.:37:32.

Norfolk, we know a series of requests by the member for Liverpool

:37:33.:37:43.

way victory has shown us ovdr half of CGCs will spend more of their

:37:44.:37:52.

budget in 2016, 2017 which demonstrates what the government has

:37:53.:37:57.

tried to do has failed. Thehr target is being missed. I will indded. The

:37:58.:38:04.

honourable lady is making some important points and she referred to

:38:05.:38:08.

the tax force future in mind report. One of the startling figures was

:38:09.:38:15.

between 25 and 35% of young people with diagnosable mental health

:38:16.:38:21.

problems access support. Dods this underline the need for bettdr

:38:22.:38:26.

training for teachers and GPs for early detection as well as darly

:38:27.:38:34.

intervention? We need early detection and also we need darly

:38:35.:38:37.

intervention but we need solebody to refer people to. There doesn't seem

:38:38.:38:42.

to be the funding at any pohnt in that journey for young people who

:38:43.:38:49.

are needing help, whether it is awareness, intervention or services.

:38:50.:38:53.

But Madam Deputy Speaker, I went looking into the good work done by

:38:54.:39:00.

my the London Borough of Newham which even in these difficult times

:39:01.:39:05.

is increasing its mental he`lth spend in absolute and in relative

:39:06.:39:11.

terms. And where children's mental health services have receivdd an

:39:12.:39:15.

outstanding report from the care and quality commission. I wanted to see

:39:16.:39:19.

how we can improve young people s mental health provision and I wanted

:39:20.:39:25.

to learn what challenges and outstanding local provider still

:39:26.:39:28.

faces in their fight for better services. Professionals in new

:39:29.:39:35.

recognise a good young people's mental health service is not just

:39:36.:39:39.

about helping those who havd already developed severe and serious

:39:40.:39:44.

conditions. But it is also `bout providing early intervention and

:39:45.:39:47.

preventative programmes so problems can be dealt with at source. Would

:39:48.:39:58.

she also agree it is very ilportant the services look at the nedds of

:39:59.:40:02.

parents, I was struck by a recent case where the parents just didn't

:40:03.:40:06.

understand where the issues had come from and couldn't help and hdentify

:40:07.:40:12.

what they were. They felt unable to identify how best to help their

:40:13.:40:18.

child. She is right, the falily can often be key to both the support the

:40:19.:40:23.

young person needs, but also perhaps needs intervention itself in order

:40:24.:40:26.

to provide the support the whole family needs in order to live

:40:27.:40:34.

mentally healthily into day's.. Today. To go on to that, thd

:40:35.:40:39.

National Lottery funded programme in new is called the head start scheme

:40:40.:40:46.

and it helps ten to 16-year,olds who are particularly in schools. It

:40:47.:40:51.

trains teachers in secondarx schools to provide programmes which build

:40:52.:40:57.

resilience amongst pupils. Ht provides mentoring schemes directly

:40:58.:41:00.

to children so they can learn from each other. It is a peer to peer

:41:01.:41:10.

learning scheme. In addition, it works directly with parents to show

:41:11.:41:16.

them how they can help work through mental health issues with their

:41:17.:41:18.

children and in their familx circumstances. Unfortunatelx, the

:41:19.:41:24.

scheme is reliant upon lottdry money and therefore it is not cord funded,

:41:25.:41:31.

which means its future as a core service simply cannot be gu`ranteed

:41:32.:41:35.

and in these circumstances, sometimes it is difficult to get the

:41:36.:41:42.

proof we need in order to bd able to persuade funders and persuade the

:41:43.:41:46.

government that this core ftnding should continue. Because often it

:41:47.:41:51.

over a small timescale, it's not big enough to be persuasive.

:41:52.:42:00.

The and is in and more integrated because they know makes a dhfference

:42:01.:42:08.

to the lives of people. Takd Emma and her baby brother aged jtst seven

:42:09.:42:14.

weeks. They were referred bx a perinatal psychiatrist who was

:42:15.:42:18.

seeing their mother for help with chronic mental ill health. Dmma was

:42:19.:42:24.

still frequently breast-fed and showed an insecure attachment to her

:42:25.:42:31.

mother. She was anxious -- who's anxious and controlling beh`viour

:42:32.:42:36.

was making it difficult for her mother to wean hard and attdnd to

:42:37.:42:40.

the needs of her new baby who was being bottle fed. Emma's spdech was

:42:41.:42:47.

also delayed. Following assdssment the family were offered

:42:48.:42:52.

psychotherapy to allow them to reflect on the needs of both people

:42:53.:42:57.

which allowed Emma to becomd independent of her mum. At the same

:42:58.:43:03.

time the baby was able to gdt more attention from his mum. I al pleased

:43:04.:43:08.

to tell you that following this intervention, Emma is now more

:43:09.:43:12.

confident, her speech is developing and she sleeps in her own room and

:43:13.:43:19.

has settled well into nursery. Our physical and mental health this is

:43:20.:43:22.

work in tandem to improve your lives. Jane was a 17-year-old who

:43:23.:43:30.

had been arrested and chargdd with possession of a weapon and `s C He

:43:31.:43:38.

had a history of violence and non-engagement. During the course of

:43:39.:43:43.

his referral to a youth offdnding team, they became concerned about

:43:44.:43:49.

his mental health and referred him directly to the mental health

:43:50.:43:52.

specialist foreign argent examination. During the assdssment,

:43:53.:43:59.

he was having suicidal thoughts He was anxious and showed severe

:44:00.:44:07.

symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder and ADHD. The team nurse

:44:08.:44:11.

arranged for him to have urgent psychiatric treatment and hd was

:44:12.:44:16.

started on medication for hhs anxiety and on a course of

:44:17.:44:22.

collective behaviour therapx for his ADHD. He was assessed for ADHD in

:44:23.:44:30.

the long term once abate. I am pleased to report that he h`s not

:44:31.:44:34.

offended since he has engagdd with the mental health team offered

:44:35.:44:40.

through the young offenders team. It just shows that integrated services

:44:41.:44:44.

are better for individuals `nd better for the whole communhty.

:44:45.:44:48.

These are just a few of the stories that I have been told but I think

:44:49.:44:55.

they are enormous challenges at providing community-based and

:44:56.:44:59.

integrated services. I am told that new would love to run services

:45:00.:45:04.

directly out of GP practices but cannot do at the moment bec`use they

:45:05.:45:09.

do not have resources. It would not be efficient currently becatse staff

:45:10.:45:12.

would spend as much time tr`velling backwards and forwards to GP

:45:13.:45:18.

practices as they would helping patients. There is an

:45:19.:45:21.

acknowledgement between health prevention -- professionals that

:45:22.:45:28.

early intervention often increases workload in the short-term.

:45:29.:45:31.

Professionals in Newham are worried that they will not be able to

:45:32.:45:34.

deliver the clinical hours necessary to more patients. Over 50% of

:45:35.:45:40.

patients in Newham already have to wait over five weeks before seeing a

:45:41.:45:45.

specialist, a number of which will only go up when further casds are

:45:46.:45:50.

uncovered without additional resources. Adam Deputy Speaker,

:45:51.:45:56.

there are well integrated community-based mental health this

:45:57.:46:00.

is delivered in Newham and `cross the country but to preserve and

:46:01.:46:05.

expand these programmes, we need to be aware that they need stable and

:46:06.:46:12.

long-term funding. To ensurd that money designed for mental hdalth was

:46:13.:46:14.

finds its way to the front line would be a good way to start. Thank

:46:15.:46:21.

you. Thank you. Can I declare my entry into the register of lembers

:46:22.:46:26.

interests. I apologise for lissing a few minutes of the honourable lady's

:46:27.:46:33.

speech. It had been brought forward. Can I say I am delighted we are

:46:34.:46:39.

having this debate for two lain reasons, reasons which you will all

:46:40.:46:44.

share I am sure. Firstly because this is a really important subject.

:46:45.:46:49.

and it is a subject which it is and it is a subject which it is

:46:50.:46:53.

right and proper and beneficial that this House and honourable mdmbers

:46:54.:47:00.

are talking about openly. Jtst as we have heard, young people ard

:47:01.:47:02.

prepared much more now than they were before to come forward with

:47:03.:47:08.

their own stories about problems and issues and hopefully find solutions.

:47:09.:47:13.

Secondly, I am delighted to be part of this debate because it is part of

:47:14.:47:18.

the United Kingdom Youth Parliament work. It is really signific`nt that

:47:19.:47:25.

we are giving up mainstream Parliamentary time in the m`in

:47:26.:47:30.

chamber of the House of Comlons to discuss a report by the youth Select

:47:31.:47:38.

Committee. It is a shame we have to do it in backbench business time

:47:39.:47:42.

rather than in government thme, I pay tribute to the honourable lady

:47:43.:47:46.

for securing this debate and giving an excellent start to it. This will

:47:47.:47:53.

be a high-quality debate. I and you I think shared the view that the

:47:54.:47:58.

Youth Select Committee has taken on such a status and stature now,

:47:59.:48:03.

producing reports of such hhgh quality and well researched that not

:48:04.:48:06.

only should the government produced a formal response to them, which

:48:07.:48:11.

has, but the government shotld give up government time in this chamber

:48:12.:48:13.

on an annual basis, just once a year on an annual basis, just once a year

:48:14.:48:19.

formally to debate the work of Youth Select Committee. That is an idea I

:48:20.:48:24.

have put forward for some thme and I have put forward for some thme and I

:48:25.:48:28.

hope the whips and government managers are listening. I al a big

:48:29.:48:33.

supporter of Youth Select Committee. It was founded in my time in

:48:34.:48:38.

Parliament, the annual Parlhamentary sittings which I try to attdnd are

:48:39.:48:44.

always a great spectacle to come to. It is always exceedingly frtstrating

:48:45.:48:48.

on the Monday and the Speakdr will on the Monday and the Speakdr will

:48:49.:48:54.

inevitably say, why do you not believe as well as Youth Select

:48:55.:49:00.

Committee members who were xou on Friday, very smart, very concise,

:49:01.:49:06.

very well-behaved and do not heckle. It is a shame the media covdrage of

:49:07.:49:12.

that is not greater than it is. It is a great event and organisation

:49:13.:49:18.

and it is great we are disctssing their work today. We have produced

:49:19.:49:26.

positive youth document and it was all about promoting positivd youth

:49:27.:49:29.

engagement. One thing I tre`sure having done was helping the

:49:30.:49:33.

transition from Youth Select transition from Youth Select

:49:34.:49:35.

Committee across to the youth council to secure its futurd. I pay

:49:36.:49:39.

tribute to all the work which has happened over the last few xears.

:49:40.:49:43.

They are mainstream part of the youth voice in this country and in

:49:44.:49:49.

this chamber. I was the first witness ever to be called in front

:49:50.:49:52.

of Youth Select Committee. Ht was an of Youth Select Committee. Ht was an

:49:53.:49:57.

awesome and intimidating experience. I was called for their first report

:49:58.:50:02.

back in 2012 along with the Transport Minister, Norman Baker. We

:50:03.:50:08.

rather to nonchalantly rockdd up in front of this group of young people

:50:09.:50:15.

in the Boothroyd room. They were exceedingly well rehearsed. They

:50:16.:50:20.

were exceedingly well researched and not taking any BS from anybody. I in

:50:21.:50:28.

front of many select committees on many occasions and that was the most

:50:29.:50:33.

intimidating experience I ever had as a minister in front of a Select

:50:34.:50:39.

Committee and it was fantastic. That is why their fourth report

:50:40.:50:42.

absolutely needs to be taken seriously, along with their work.

:50:43.:50:49.

This report is difficult to distinguish from the House of

:50:50.:50:51.

Commons Select Committee report that many of us are involved with. I want

:50:52.:50:56.

to congratulate the team for the work they did on it. They dhd

:50:57.:51:01.

everything they should have done, visits to experts, visits to

:51:02.:51:09.

sufferers of mental illness, expert witnesses and they had no fdwer than

:51:10.:51:15.

148 submissions. If only all other select committees had as many well

:51:16.:51:19.

informed and well researched submissions as they did. Also, they

:51:20.:51:26.

have a substantial democrathc endorsement. In 2014, when they were

:51:27.:51:34.

deciding for the subject of the Youth Select Committee report, then

:51:35.:51:38.

make your mark ballot which includes the debate in this House and setting

:51:39.:51:44.

their priorities, no fewer than 875,000 young people from up and

:51:45.:51:48.

down the country actually bothered to turn out and vote. More than

:51:49.:51:54.

90,000 voted for the subject of mental health was the switch is why

:51:55.:52:00.

we are hear to debate this report. It was debated in this chamber, that

:52:01.:52:08.

is a huge democratic mandatd. I host an event once a year in the House of

:52:09.:52:14.

Commons to present democracx reports for schools in West Sussex,

:52:15.:52:20.

including my constituency schools which have achieved high turnovers

:52:21.:52:24.

in elections they hold everx February and each year the turnout

:52:25.:52:30.

gets higher. A bigger room has to be put to accommodate more. Thdy got a

:52:31.:52:39.

100% turnout from all their pupils turning out to vote for thehr

:52:40.:52:45.

members which is fantastic. So this is a chunky piece of evidence that

:52:46.:52:52.

needs to be appreciated and looked at and importantly, acted upon so I

:52:53.:52:57.

am delighted we are giving time to it today. I am pleased also the

:52:58.:53:02.

government produced a formal response to it, jointly by the

:53:03.:53:13.

ministers at the Department of Health and the Member for E`st

:53:14.:53:17.

Surrey representing the education department. Neither of thosd

:53:18.:53:22.

ministers are apparently in that place and I welcome my honotrable

:53:23.:53:26.

friend from Oxfordshire to that you position and I'm sure she whll pick

:53:27.:53:32.

up the ropes of this very qtickly. We do need consistency in approach

:53:33.:53:36.

dealing with mental health `nd we need a much better joined up

:53:37.:53:41.

approach, not just between dducation and health but many other aspects as

:53:42.:53:47.

well. Madame Deputy Speaker, the subject is very important to young

:53:48.:53:51.

people. This report is very important to young people and should

:53:52.:53:54.

therefore be important to this House and to the work of the government

:53:55.:54:00.

and I think many useful lessons must be learned from it. I am also very

:54:01.:54:07.

frustrated, I speak as someone who has been in this House for 20 years,

:54:08.:54:12.

I have been a shadow ministdr for mental health and for young people

:54:13.:54:17.

for nine years, I currently cheer the all-party group for children and

:54:18.:54:27.

a group which is all about perinatal and mental health. I have sden

:54:28.:54:32.

mental health it is common goal I have seen the 2011 strategy with an

:54:33.:54:38.

important statement about p`rity of esteem which we need to achheve I

:54:39.:54:47.

saw the 2014, closing the g`p report with specific commitments to improve

:54:48.:54:51.

the mental health care for children and young people. I saw the rolling

:54:52.:54:55.

out talking therapies progr`mme in March 20 15. We had the mental

:54:56.:55:03.

health task force, I saw lots of good work by the former minhster,

:55:04.:55:08.

the Member for North East Bedfordshire in the health

:55:09.:55:12.

Department. In particular in February this year the ment`l health

:55:13.:55:18.

task force produced a report on mental health and locks of talk

:55:19.:55:23.

about the importance of mental health and necessity to achheve

:55:24.:55:27.

parity of esteem. As the honourable lady from West Ham said there is a

:55:28.:55:34.

big disparity instead of thd parity which we must achieve. You only are

:55:35.:55:40.

again. We are still hear and record numbers of children and young people

:55:41.:55:43.

are still hear with mental health problems. I will give way. Does he

:55:44.:55:54.

agree with me that the real problem is you can have reports on task

:55:55.:55:58.

forces and recommendations but the real issue is that mental hdalth is

:55:59.:56:05.

seen as a health Department issue whereas what we need is complete

:56:06.:56:11.

cross government approach to this so that mental health and ment`l

:56:12.:56:15.

well-being is on every single piece of policy development? He is right.

:56:16.:56:23.

He is pre-empting something I'll -- a point I wish to make. As linisters

:56:24.:56:31.

and former ministers, there is the complete illusion that is the three

:56:32.:56:35.

Es joined up government. Johned up government does not happen hn

:56:36.:56:41.

practice. You are cocaine -, cocooned in a department as a

:56:42.:56:46.

minister. The dialogue you tsed to have, this huge wall comes between

:56:47.:56:56.

you to try and get inter departmental action becomes really

:56:57.:57:00.

frustrating. I set up the youth action group which consists of 10

:57:01.:57:06.

and six major children's ch`rities and six major children's ch`rities

:57:07.:57:11.

cheered by the Princess first and Barnardo's and they came to us with

:57:12.:57:15.

problems affecting young people often complex problems.

:57:16.:57:20.

One was to do with housing benefit and education for children hn care.

:57:21.:57:31.

It involved benefits which was the remit of the Department for Work and

:57:32.:57:34.

Pensions and it involve children in care which was the remit of the

:57:35.:57:39.

Department for Education. This was this vicious circle. But thd

:57:40.:57:44.

committee was due to do, and it hasn't met for 15 months or so, we

:57:45.:57:49.

had ministers and invariablx there will be six ministers, not just

:57:50.:57:52.

civil servants from those departments with their officials. We

:57:53.:57:57.

would get the relevant ministers to go away and solve problem. This

:57:58.:58:04.

falls into that category whdre it is not just the remit of health or

:58:05.:58:09.

education because there are so many implications and knock-on effects.

:58:10.:58:14.

He is absolutely right the structure of government needs to be so much

:58:15.:58:20.

better. That's why we need task force is that genuinely cut across

:58:21.:58:24.

government departments. But they can only flourish, in my experidnce if

:58:25.:58:29.

they have the direct engagelent of ministers at the top as well. One

:58:30.:58:37.

welcome initiative in his own party was the appointment of a Cabinet

:58:38.:58:42.

level Minister for mental hdalth. I think it has gone by the waxside,

:58:43.:58:47.

but the principle was right to try and join up those departments at the

:58:48.:58:55.

top table, which is important. If I could remind him, I am the Shadow

:58:56.:59:00.

Cabinet minister for mental health, so it hasn't gone away from this

:59:01.:59:05.

side of the House. I am delhghted and I didn't mean to underestimate

:59:06.:59:08.

the contribution of the honourable lady. When it was the honourable

:59:09.:59:13.

member for Liverpool way victory, she sat at the Cabinet tabld on

:59:14.:59:18.

this. My hope that is still the case and I would like to see my own party

:59:19.:59:24.

in government replicate that because it is such an important isste.

:59:25.:59:31.

Despite all of that, as has been described, mental health relains a

:59:32.:59:35.

syndrome of service of the National Health Service and as the rdport

:59:36.:59:40.

itself describes it, CAMS and the mental health of children and young

:59:41.:59:46.

people remains the Cinderella of the Cinderella service. This issue over

:59:47.:59:52.

funding is important, because for all of those years where mental

:59:53.:59:56.

health was a static or declhning portion of the overall national

:59:57.:00:01.

health service budget. And we can have arguments about how much the

:00:02.:00:05.

NHS budget has gone up or kdpt up with inflation, but all the time the

:00:06.:00:11.

share of funding in mental health declines, that is a very cldar

:00:12.:00:16.

message it is a second priority within the National Health Service.

:00:17.:00:20.

And therein lies part of thd problem. We should treat it, and we

:00:21.:00:25.

are making progress, I don't want to be too negative, as they do in other

:00:26.:00:32.

countries. If you go into a hospital in Copenhagen Denmark, you go into

:00:33.:00:39.

the main hospital and if yot have a problem with diabetes, you turn

:00:40.:00:43.

left, if you have a mental health problem you turn right. Thex treated

:00:44.:00:48.

with the same basis and that is how we need to treat it here. There have

:00:49.:00:53.

been many great intentions by many ministers, but in practice `t the

:00:54.:00:58.

sharp end on the ground, whdre our young constituents experience in

:00:59.:01:02.

trying to access the mental health support they desperately nedd, it is

:01:03.:01:06.

not happening. It is certainly not happening in a uniform way `cross

:01:07.:01:12.

the whole country. As a restlt, one in four people in this country at

:01:13.:01:18.

least are still suffering from a mental health problem. I have a

:01:19.:01:22.

particular interest in currdnt Nato mental health and declare an

:01:23.:01:28.

interest, I chaired the grotp for 1001 days. We now have seven clinics

:01:29.:01:39.

across the country providing support to parents with newborn babhes.

:01:40.:01:50.

About half of all cases of perinatal depression and anxiety go

:01:51.:01:54.

undetected. Those which are detected failed to receive evidence ,based

:01:55.:01:59.

forms of treatment. Really alarmingly, certainly at thd time of

:02:00.:02:04.

the report the all-party group produced last year called btilding

:02:05.:02:09.

Great Britons, just 3% of clinical commissioning groups in England have

:02:10.:02:17.

a strategy for perinatal mental health services. It is a cost to the

:02:18.:02:27.

NHS, a cost the NHS can dearly ill afford, and it is ?8.1 billhon for

:02:28.:02:33.

each one year cohort of births in the United Kingdom, equivaldnt to

:02:34.:02:37.

almost ?10,000 for every single berth in this country. Why hs this

:02:38.:02:44.

relevant to young people? Ndarly three quarters of this cost relates

:02:45.:02:47.

to the adverse impacts on the child rather than the mother. Followers of

:02:48.:02:55.

attachment will understand `nd appreciate the strong links between

:02:56.:02:59.

achieving a strong attachment between the child and the primary

:03:00.:03:03.

carer and good nurturing from the earlier stages. And as we ptt it in

:03:04.:03:08.

the report, from conception to gauge two when the synapses in thd brain

:03:09.:03:15.

are developing at 40,000 a second and the brain, character and

:03:16.:03:18.

development is absolutely bding formed. The earliest experidnces

:03:19.:03:23.

shape the baby's brain development and have a lifelong impact on the

:03:24.:03:29.

baby's emotional health. Thd research shows a direct link with

:03:30.:03:33.

what happens to other during the perinatal period and a child in

:03:34.:03:38.

later life. If you have a tdenager 15 or 16 suffering from somd form of

:03:39.:03:44.

depression, there is somethhng like a 90% chance that his or her mother

:03:45.:03:49.

suffered from perinatal depression. The link is that clear. It hs

:03:50.:03:55.

absolutely false economy not to be helping out with mum at the early

:03:56.:03:59.

age and dad, who plays a crtcial role in all of this as well. Getting

:04:00.:04:05.

it right with parents and children early is crucial to the good mental

:04:06.:04:11.

health of so many children `nd young people. Madam Deputy Speaker, this

:04:12.:04:15.

is not rocket science, technically it is neuroscience, but frankly we

:04:16.:04:18.

should be getting it better sooner than we are. Other factors have been

:04:19.:04:24.

flagged up in this report. Ly honourable friend for High Peak in

:04:25.:04:28.

particular went into many of these about the peer group pressure is on

:04:29.:04:33.

our children and young people, as they... I have no children `ny more,

:04:34.:04:38.

my youngest is over the age of 8, but we have been through many

:04:39.:04:41.

teenage years, so I have sedn it first hand. You can't go out in the

:04:42.:04:47.

morning without the latest hPhone, without checking your Facebook,

:04:48.:04:51.

without tweeting what you are having for breakfast and putting a

:04:52.:04:56.

photograph up of what you are having for breakfast. And that is just

:04:57.:05:02.

after you have got up. The stresses to succeed in school and thd of

:05:03.:05:10.

exams and testing are not conducive to the best of mental health unless

:05:11.:05:17.

some support is there to help young people through all sorts of

:05:18.:05:20.

challenges, which we never had in my day. And I guess it is even earlier.

:05:21.:05:30.

Social media is a huge infltence on young people that was just not

:05:31.:05:35.

around in our day, or your day Madam Deputy Speaker, either, I h`zard to

:05:36.:05:36.

guess. I thank him for giving way. He makes, as always, import`nt

:05:37.:05:55.

observations in these debatds. He and I were both at school together

:05:56.:06:00.

and at time when children ldft school, they left their problems

:06:01.:06:04.

behind. If they had bullying going on or anything like that. Btt one of

:06:05.:06:08.

the challenges now is, any problems like that go the child beyond the

:06:09.:06:12.

school gates to the home and also through the summer holiday hf they

:06:13.:06:17.

are not careful. Does he agree there are further steps that should be

:06:18.:06:22.

taken by a digital service providers to provide apps and protecthons to

:06:23.:06:25.

help children in those diffhcult circumstances? I do agree and

:06:26.:06:32.

believe it or not, my honourable friend is older than me and was in

:06:33.:06:37.

the year above me at our school Although he has aged rather better

:06:38.:06:40.

than me, he hasn't been in this House quite as long as I have! But

:06:41.:06:44.

he's absolutely right the environment of the dynamics where

:06:45.:06:50.

the stresses and strains were in those days and who you commtnicate

:06:51.:06:56.

with as well. I had an example recently of where one of my

:06:57.:07:02.

daughters, I won't name which one, basically put in her request for

:07:03.:07:07.

supper by text message and she was in her bedroom to my wife and I in

:07:08.:07:13.

the kitchen! So it is extraordinary and ironic... Software is off,

:07:14.:07:26.

basically. Irony is, in a d`y where communicating has never been easier

:07:27.:07:33.

by e-mail, by social media, communications between human beings

:07:34.:07:37.

face-to-face have never been more rare and promote. And therehn lies

:07:38.:07:43.

part of the problem. And particularly communications between

:07:44.:07:46.

children and their parents do not come as readily. And the parents, as

:07:47.:07:51.

much as the children are at fault. Why we cannot talk frankly `bout the

:07:52.:07:56.

very real pressures and str`ins and stresses on our children. It may be

:07:57.:08:02.

to do with grooming, it may be to do with sex matters, or drugs. But in

:08:03.:08:07.

his day and my day perhaps, we did talk to our parents more or perhaps

:08:08.:08:11.

other family members around us. I want to pick up a few points in the

:08:12.:08:18.

report and I know other members want to speak. We have got to a position

:08:19.:08:21.

where one in ten school-age children will have some form of ment`l

:08:22.:08:27.

disorder. That is getting younger, 340,000, five to ten-year-olds have

:08:28.:08:32.

some form of mental disorder. If it is not detected early and acted

:08:33.:08:37.

upon, it just festers and so often gets worse. And too often, the only

:08:38.:08:45.

immediate response, if you do access a clinician, is the chemical cosh of

:08:46.:08:51.

drugs, which in too many cases are not appropriate for younger

:08:52.:08:55.

children, as we are increashngly finding. Talking therapies `nd

:08:56.:08:59.

others would be more appropriate at the earliest age, but when xou are

:09:00.:09:03.

having to wait weeks and months for them, it is whether you wait longer

:09:04.:09:08.

for the most appropriate thdrapy or you are given some form of

:09:09.:09:11.

antidepressant drug in the short term. There is an issue which is

:09:12.:09:17.

flagged up in the report about the transition from childhood to

:09:18.:09:22.

adulthood. Nothing changes physically and mentally to xou when

:09:23.:09:26.

you receive your 18th birthday card from your member of Parliamdnt on

:09:27.:09:31.

your 18th birthday, for exalple The last thing you need if you `re going

:09:32.:09:36.

to stresses and mental illndss as an 18-year-old is have a different

:09:37.:09:39.

process and system that has to do with you because you have stddenly

:09:40.:09:43.

become an adult and your condition has not changed. There is a

:09:44.:09:48.

particular issue of children in care, where they have been leaving

:09:49.:09:53.

care at the age of 16, forttnately now the new scheme that has been

:09:54.:10:01.

brought in, gives a longer lead in time. Every child is differdnt and

:10:02.:10:04.

children will be more resilhent to go into the big wide world than at

:10:05.:10:09.

different ages. There is sole good examples in the report about the

:10:10.:10:15.

best transition and practicd and Southampton hospital has an zero to

:10:16.:10:21.

25 age range. It is a schemd called ready, steady go and every person is

:10:22.:10:25.

treated differently and not everybody's go age will be the same.

:10:26.:10:31.

Can I touch on a few things mentioned in the report. Thd

:10:32.:10:35.

recommendations made around training for GPs. It is right certainly for

:10:36.:10:43.

younger children, that GPs will be the first port of call with clinical

:10:44.:10:51.

services. I think the trainhng of GPs dealing with younger people s

:10:52.:10:56.

mental health problems in p`rticular are not good. I think a young person

:10:57.:11:04.

who needs a lot of confidence to go along to see a GP with a parent or

:11:05.:11:09.

whoever, there needs to be ` clear understanding on how to get the best

:11:10.:11:15.

out of that child. So I think we need better guidance and as the

:11:16.:11:19.

honourable lady mentioned e`rlier, young people should be in on the

:11:20.:11:21.

genesis of the guidance as well The second recommendation is around

:11:22.:11:38.

what happens in schools. Thd Association of head teachers was

:11:39.:11:43.

quoted saying when children do not meet the thresholds, it is often

:11:44.:11:48.

schools who become responsible and are often ill-equipped to do that.

:11:49.:11:55.

-- when appearance. We are talking about three in a class size of 0

:11:56.:12:01.

who will suffer from some mdntal health problem and as the chief

:12:02.:12:04.

medical officer herself says, three quarters of the moles set -, will

:12:05.:12:10.

receive no treatment at all, that has an impact on the child `nd the

:12:11.:12:17.

rest of the class. We need better training of teachers to better

:12:18.:12:22.

identify those signs pointing to a mental illness, better awardness of

:12:23.:12:27.

when they can signpost to gdt the treatment required and also to be

:12:28.:12:31.

able to talk about it gener`lly in class. We can argue about whether it

:12:32.:12:41.

should be a compulsory subjdct, whether it should be a form`l part

:12:42.:12:45.

of the curriculum but it nedds to be done in an environment wherd young

:12:46.:12:50.

people feel engaged and it hs not just another lesson but somdthing

:12:51.:12:54.

they feel free to talk about openly and absorbed and learn from. Of

:12:55.:13:04.

course. I thank him for givhng way. The proposal that mental he`lth

:13:05.:13:10.

education should become compulsory is simply that its presence on the

:13:11.:13:14.

curriculum is too important to leave to chance. I agree with him it needs

:13:15.:13:18.

to be undertaken in practicd in a way which is engaging and does the

:13:19.:13:23.

job and is therefore effecthve at educating young people but would he

:13:24.:13:26.

agree that it should not be left to chance as to whether it happens at

:13:27.:13:31.

all? She and I had the same objectives I am sure. I am `lways

:13:32.:13:39.

sceptical about the solution for something being to make it `

:13:40.:13:43.

compulsory part of the currhculum. The reasons I mentioned earlier

:13:44.:13:54.

some of the best educational work I have seen is from outside youth

:13:55.:14:00.

workers who can empathise whth young people and talk to them in ` way

:14:01.:14:05.

they will appreciate and respect and learn from. Making it anothdr

:14:06.:14:10.

subject taught by a geography teacher who has a free period on a

:14:11.:14:17.

Thursday afternoon that terl, therein lies some problems so what

:14:18.:14:21.

we need to have... I will ghve Win a moment. We need to have mord schools

:14:22.:14:29.

automatically seeking to and wanting to be closeted in the children's

:14:30.:14:35.

best interests to have well,informed mental health education in ` form

:14:36.:14:39.

appropriate to engage those children in that school. I do not thhnk our

:14:40.:14:45.

objectives and ends are different, we can debate about how best to

:14:46.:14:50.

achieve them. I will give w`y. Thank you. He makes a good point `bout

:14:51.:15:00.

having appropriately trained specialists delivering ment`l health

:15:01.:15:06.

education to young people btt he suggests that they are spechalists

:15:07.:15:10.

and that they are done by youth services. The problem is th`t youth

:15:11.:15:19.

services are being cut as they are not statutory services of local

:15:20.:15:24.

authorities and many schools who have been providing and bringing in

:15:25.:15:32.

specialist support by experts, to support young people and te`chers,

:15:33.:15:37.

they are being cut as head teachers are having to cut back servhces as

:15:38.:15:42.

they deal with the Budget ctts they have to face. I hear what she is

:15:43.:15:44.

saying and that is a subject for saying and that is a subject for

:15:45.:15:53.

another debate. We can look into the role of youth workers in schools,

:15:54.:16:00.

something which is achieved often with academies where we can

:16:01.:16:03.

appreciate the value of youth workers because they can empathise

:16:04.:16:08.

with young people perhaps r`ther better and bring them into schools.

:16:09.:16:13.

I have been advocating for giving other rules to youth workers who

:16:14.:16:18.

sadly are no longer employed especially in local authorities

:16:19.:16:22.

because it is not a statutory requirement which has fallen by the

:16:23.:16:26.

wayside. I have sympathy with that but it is subject for anothdr

:16:27.:16:32.

debate. Very quickly, Madam Deputy Speaker, it plays into the last

:16:33.:16:39.

point and the importance of resilience and character edtcation

:16:40.:16:43.

into the well-being agenda hn schools which is something recent

:16:44.:16:47.

education sector days have taken on board. -- education secretaries An

:16:48.:16:56.

important issue is how this is monitored. Another recommendation in

:16:57.:17:02.

the report is that Ofsted should have a role hear. Ofsted have a role

:17:03.:17:08.

in assessing behaviour withhn a school and that should extend to how

:17:09.:17:11.

they cope with mental health problems among pupils as well. That

:17:12.:17:19.

should be on their check list. Also, we are really bad about

:17:20.:17:23.

disseminating good practice so where there are examples, I have seen many

:17:24.:17:29.

good examples. I remember in Stafford ready have full-tile

:17:30.:17:34.

counsellor. The teachers have confidence in her, they would refer

:17:35.:17:38.

children to hard and they would speak frankly to those councillors.

:17:39.:17:43.

They can prevent a lot of problems cutting Mitterrand for schools. --

:17:44.:17:54.

hot -- cutting problems latdr on for schools. Then that is the whole

:17:55.:18:03.

problem of Cyberbullying. In the report that is the promotion of self

:18:04.:18:08.

harm the websites. We need to be much more aggressive in tackling,

:18:09.:18:13.

especially for things like `norexia and self harm were people you do not

:18:14.:18:18.

know, if you are going therd for advice to a solution becausd you

:18:19.:18:24.

have feelings about self harm or anorexic problems, there ard bizarre

:18:25.:18:27.

websites which promote thosd things as well. As they suggest in this

:18:28.:18:32.

report, we need some form of verification scheme. We need a much

:18:33.:18:40.

more responsible and bigger role for social media companies who `re huge

:18:41.:18:45.

companies employing many thousands of people and yet in their scrutiny

:18:46.:18:50.

departments, the numbers ard woefully low. As a member of

:18:51.:18:57.

Parliament with Twitter accounts, we mostly have blue takes to s`y we are

:18:58.:19:02.

who we are coming have something of a verification scheme in here so

:19:03.:19:08.

that young people have some confidence that the sites they are

:19:09.:19:13.

accessing out there to give them support, not to encourage them to do

:19:14.:19:18.

harmful things to themselves. It applies over so many differdnt

:19:19.:19:22.

areas, including radicalisation sites as well. The recent rdport

:19:23.:19:31.

from the girl guides who regularly revisit the image of body pdrception

:19:32.:19:37.

of young girls, it is so al`rming that the number of young girls as

:19:38.:19:43.

young as 13 whose aspiration is to have plastic surgery. When xour body

:19:44.:19:48.

is not even fully formed, they are being conditioned to think this is

:19:49.:19:52.

the ideal they must aspire to. This is wrong and is that the root of so

:19:53.:19:57.

many of the weaknesses and vulnerabilities leading to lental

:19:58.:20:03.

illnesses and tragically le`ding to suicide, these influences on young

:20:04.:20:08.

people. In the old days, and note passed across at classroom sealed

:20:09.:20:14.

with a loving case might at worst end up on the floor, these days the

:20:15.:20:20.

equivalent and the worst extremes if it is a form of sexual text string,

:20:21.:20:26.

ends up on social media in perpetuity for millions of people to

:20:27.:20:35.

see. -- text string. That is the equivalent of a note in our

:20:36.:20:41.

playground days. Finally, the recommendations at the end of the

:20:42.:20:46.

report about young people w`nting to relate to people their own `ge

:20:47.:20:51.

rather than old men in suits, which takes in quite a few of the

:20:52.:20:56.

honourable members hear tod`y. They want to involve young peopld in the

:20:57.:21:02.

campaign... And speaking for myself! Involving young people in the

:21:03.:21:08.

campaign makes it easier for young people to receive the right message

:21:09.:21:11.

and so did recommend that a consultation group of young people

:21:12.:21:17.

be setup to work on and contribute to the anti stigma campaign and

:21:18.:21:22.

identify issues. I completely agree. When I was a children's minhster, I

:21:23.:21:28.

had four reference groups whthin the Department which is reported to me

:21:29.:21:34.

on three monthly basis, one with adopted children, one in residential

:21:35.:21:38.

care, residential homes and children who had recently left ear. They came

:21:39.:21:43.

to me without adults and thdy sat around the table and told md what

:21:44.:21:47.

was going on. The challenge some perceived wisdom is and I got some

:21:48.:21:52.

of the best information by speaking to those young people. Don't -- this

:21:53.:21:58.

report has been produced by young people and by reference to lany

:21:59.:22:02.

thousands of young people, lany of whom have suffered the sorts of

:22:03.:22:06.

problems we have mentioned hear today. We need to listen to their

:22:07.:22:13.

voice. We need to act on thdir recommendations and include and

:22:14.:22:17.

involve them in the solutions. That is why this report is so important

:22:18.:22:21.

to them and needs to be equ`lly as important to us, this House and this

:22:22.:22:32.

government. Hear, hear. Kev`n Jones. Can I begin by thanking my

:22:33.:22:36.

honourable friend for securhng this debate and thanking the Backbench

:22:37.:22:41.

Business Committee for allowing the time for the House to discuss it.

:22:42.:22:48.

Can I record thanks to the British Council and the Youth Select

:22:49.:22:52.

Committee for what is an excellent support. Can I also give a big thank

:22:53.:22:59.

mental health. People may bd sick of mental health. People may bd sick of

:23:00.:23:04.

me saying this but that is the way of addressing some of the stigma.

:23:05.:23:10.

Certainly talking about this report today will also mean that young

:23:11.:23:13.

people now we're taking the subject seriously. There are issues in this

:23:14.:23:22.

report that do crossover into issues in and sit -- adult mental services.

:23:23.:23:31.

What is unique about this rdport is that for those of us with more

:23:32.:23:37.

advanced years, it gives an insight into particular pressures on young

:23:38.:23:40.

people today which were not there when we were young. Also sole of the

:23:41.:23:46.

challenges for parents and schools in dealing with some of those

:23:47.:23:51.

pressures. I think the cord of this report is very important because it

:23:52.:23:57.

talks about a lot of the issues which you can say also affects adult

:23:58.:24:06.

mental health services. I whll concentrate on access, how people

:24:07.:24:15.

get access to mental health service is and the other, prevention and

:24:16.:24:19.

being able to address the issue not of mental health but mental health

:24:20.:24:30.

well-being. Access, as has been said, is important. How do xou

:24:31.:24:34.

access the services? The report talks about the provision of mental

:24:35.:24:37.

health service is to young people the Cinderella service of Chnderella

:24:38.:24:45.

services. If it's about mondy? Yes, it is. My honourable friend put it

:24:46.:24:54.

eloquently when he mentioned if you do not have their funding locally,

:24:55.:24:58.

you can have all the aspirations in the world but people cannot access

:24:59.:25:06.

services which are not therd. I agree the report is about more cash

:25:07.:25:11.

but also how we structure otr mental health is as in this countrx. The

:25:12.:25:17.

report, on page five, sums this up and draws a pyramid and a lhst of

:25:18.:25:24.

organisations which commisshon mental health services, schools

:25:25.:25:30.

local authorities, NHS Engl`nd and calls for a league commissioner

:25:31.:25:34.

which I would totally agree with. I would go a step further, in terms of

:25:35.:25:39.

commissioning services, we need to talk about the treatment pathways

:25:40.:25:44.

and how you actually get into those systems. Because anyone, and adult

:25:45.:25:51.

trying to navigate their mental health system, it is like a maze and

:25:52.:25:57.

not only needs to find your way through it but once you get into it,

:25:58.:26:03.

on many occasions, you can wait weeks or months or years to get the

:26:04.:26:10.

help which is available in some areas but also should be provided at

:26:11.:26:19.

a quicker rate. Early intervention, especially for young people, can

:26:20.:26:22.

prevent problems further down the line. I do sympathise with

:26:23.:26:29.

appearance because if they `re presented with a child with mental

:26:30.:26:34.

health problems, who do you go to? -- with parents. I think we're soon

:26:35.:26:46.

sometimes, that people are well versed in issues around mental

:26:47.:26:52.

health but how to issue services but we do need that pathway. -- I think

:26:53.:27:02.

we as soon. The report disctsses GPs and GP training. Therein lids the

:27:03.:27:06.

problem. I am not criticising GPs because a are some very good ones

:27:07.:27:12.

who do help and can access services. I support the recommendation in the

:27:13.:27:16.

report about more training for GPs but we need a more open system. We

:27:17.:27:23.

need a self referral system which is not necessarily going through GPs.

:27:24.:27:29.

That comes down to the issud around commissioning and how we provide

:27:30.:27:31.

mental health services in this country.

:27:32.:27:36.

It is a medical model for the mental health services, but I am not sure,

:27:37.:27:43.

in many cases, in needs to be a medical model. We need a more open

:27:44.:27:48.

system in this country which involves the voluntary sector. I am

:27:49.:27:52.

not suggesting this because it is a cheap option, but perhaps a better

:27:53.:27:57.

way of providing mental health services. But they need to be

:27:58.:28:02.

funded, as my honourable frhend for West Ham said. We can't just pass

:28:03.:28:12.

these over to some very good voluntary service organisathon and

:28:13.:28:14.

expect them to do it without the funding behind it. Therein lies the

:28:15.:28:22.

problem, I give credit to the member for North East Beds, who is a great

:28:23.:28:30.

champion the parity, a steal and how to get the system better. Btt the

:28:31.:28:36.

problem is, Madam Deputy Spdaker, as I said in an intervention e`rlier

:28:37.:28:43.

on, it is no good just lookhng at mental health in terms of the health

:28:44.:28:47.

Department. Because the cuts that have taken place in local government

:28:48.:28:52.

are having a direct impact on the provision of mental health services,

:28:53.:29:01.

whether it be the closure of the youth services, or whether ht be,

:29:02.:29:07.

for example voluntary sector organisation which relied on local

:29:08.:29:13.

government. This is false economy if we are putting more money into

:29:14.:29:18.

health but taking it out elsewhere in the system, we will create the

:29:19.:29:25.

continuing problem. CAMS, wd need a fundamental review of this service,

:29:26.:29:32.

it is a complete failure. I am not criticising the dedicated

:29:33.:29:35.

individuals who work within it. We have met them and they work very

:29:36.:29:38.

hard, but the workload they are dealing with and the system and how

:29:39.:29:45.

they get their referrals, they are doing fantastic work, but the system

:29:46.:29:49.

is broken as it is outlined at the moment. You cannot have a shtuation

:29:50.:29:54.

where you have young people waiting approximately six months for an

:29:55.:30:01.

assessment to get to access even an assessment, and then expect somehow

:30:02.:30:05.

families will cope, or the individual young person's mdntal

:30:06.:30:12.

health is going to cope. Wotld he agree in some cases children have

:30:13.:30:17.

two get so bad before its address, rather than being addressed in the

:30:18.:30:20.

first place so they don't actually get that state. That is the problem.

:30:21.:30:30.

The problem is, the longer xou leave, and I say this from personal

:30:31.:30:36.

experience, the longer you leave the issue undiagnosed or untreated, the

:30:37.:30:43.

worse it gets. I had a case recently, and one area I want to

:30:44.:30:47.

touch on slightly, is coming back to this idea we think parents `re

:30:48.:30:51.

somehow geniuses who know how to deal with children with mental

:30:52.:30:56.

illness, they don't. I work with a group in Durham

:30:57.:31:08.

called Kinship Carers, unclds, grandparents, who find themselves

:31:09.:31:13.

looking after young children. Many of those have come from the care

:31:14.:31:23.

system, because of abuse and stuff because their parents cannot cope. I

:31:24.:31:29.

had a case earlier this year where a six-year-old is self-harming. If you

:31:30.:31:32.

look at his background and talk to his grandparents, who are looking

:31:33.:31:37.

after him, you can perhaps understand why. But how does he

:31:38.:31:43.

access the CAMS service? He was told he would have to wait six months.

:31:44.:31:49.

You have a couple looking after a six-year-old, who aren't his

:31:50.:31:53.

biological parents, but are his grandparents and they say, what can

:31:54.:31:57.

we do with a six-year-old who is disruption at school and th`t leads

:31:58.:32:05.

to his exclusion. What happdns to him then? It is not just thd trauma

:32:06.:32:09.

and heartache, a six-year-old self-harming. The torment, `lso the

:32:10.:32:16.

knock-on effect within the family and the school as well. We do need a

:32:17.:32:23.

system which is a combination of community-based provision that I

:32:24.:32:27.

would like to see open access areas run by voluntary sector

:32:28.:32:33.

organisations, well funded, or part of the local authorities th`t

:32:34.:32:38.

provides a place where people can go for help, even just information on

:32:39.:32:43.

some occasions. That couple hadn't got a clue to do. What do you do in

:32:44.:32:49.

those situations? The systel is failing them. It shouldn't take me,

:32:50.:32:55.

and member of Parliament, to go to the mental health trusts for those

:32:56.:33:00.

people to access services. That is why we are. The problem we `lso have

:33:01.:33:05.

is, it's not just about makhng sure it's joined up locally becatse cuts

:33:06.:33:12.

in local services are having a direct impact. The other thhng,

:33:13.:33:18.

which is a big problem, is that the changes to the National health

:33:19.:33:22.

service and GP commissioning has led to a situation which has made it

:33:23.:33:26.

worse for many voluntary organisations. Contracts ard being

:33:27.:33:30.

left for a whole host of services which are too large and too complex.

:33:31.:33:35.

The idea local community groups which will provide good, local

:33:36.:33:43.

services, it can commission the services or bid for them. Btt they

:33:44.:33:47.

are too big and they are behng excluded from the money which is

:33:48.:33:53.

available. I am not saying for one minute and I don't think anxone who

:33:54.:33:57.

works in mental health servhces wants a free ride. They are quite

:33:58.:34:08.

happy to be evaluated and they have to ensure outcomes are therd and

:34:09.:34:12.

they are accountable. But the present system as it is now, those

:34:13.:34:16.

contracts being let by the NHS, there's no way many of thosd small

:34:17.:34:22.

organisations, which in manx cases would have been cheaper to deliver

:34:23.:34:26.

the service, but I think wotld have been better to deliver the service.

:34:27.:34:31.

The government needs to look at this, and perhaps it is difficult in

:34:32.:34:37.

the age of austerity, if thhs is dumb properly, this saves money It

:34:38.:34:54.

doesn't just save... In the report on page nine, they were takhng

:34:55.:34:57.

evidence from the Chief Medhcal Officer, and they said earlx

:34:58.:35:04.

intervention for young people can help avoid substantial health and

:35:05.:35:09.

social care costs over ten xears. ?15 in costs can be avoided for

:35:10.:35:14.

every pound invested. I would argue if the government really want to get

:35:15.:35:19.

value for money then this is a way of doing it. There is a problem and

:35:20.:35:24.

it's because we haven't approached anything in this country at the

:35:25.:35:34.

moment, we know the cost of everything, but the value of

:35:35.:35:40.

nothing. When this eventually pays for itself, the payback to society,

:35:41.:35:44.

not just making sure we havd a healthier and happier society, will

:35:45.:35:50.

be quite large. The other area I would like to touch on is the area

:35:51.:35:59.

which is covered in the report about prevention and the work in terms of

:36:00.:36:07.

schoolwork and making sure we mainstream mental well-being in this

:36:08.:36:15.

country. I think what we nedd to do, and it was mentioned earlier on the

:36:16.:36:19.

difficulties of Whitehall governments, but we do need, we

:36:20.:36:25.

don't need any more reports into some of these areas, but wh`t we

:36:26.:36:30.

need to do now is hard-wire, and I would call it mental well-bding

:36:31.:36:34.

into all public policy across Whitehall. Can it be done? Xes it

:36:35.:36:41.

can, because I was involved in the last Labour government when we

:36:42.:36:45.

mainstream a veteran policy. Bob Ainsworth, the minister at the time,

:36:46.:36:49.

commissioned the report on veterans, and made sure it was taken forward,

:36:50.:36:54.

that each individual departlent when it was coming up with public

:36:55.:36:59.

policy, took veterans into `ccount. We need a similar account in terms

:37:00.:37:04.

of mental health, or the mental well-being. The only way to do that,

:37:05.:37:10.

I have found, it is have a Cabinet subcommittee that says at C`binet

:37:11.:37:14.

level, the main departments make sure, when they are coming tp with a

:37:15.:37:20.

policy, they take into accotnt mental health well-being. Bdcause

:37:21.:37:24.

early investment always savds money, but makes for a better socidty. The

:37:25.:37:29.

issue in the report, which H totally agree with is supporting school

:37:30.:37:36.

counsellors. Councillors cotld, I think, be something of a prdssure

:37:37.:37:42.

valve in the system. Properly trained and a network of thdm across

:37:43.:37:48.

schools could intervene early on and prevent some of the issues. The

:37:49.:37:52.

report talks about, and I know another member was saying hd was

:37:53.:37:57.

reluctant to make sure schools were mandatory to carry out this type of

:37:58.:38:03.

work, but as the report said, we have national standards and

:38:04.:38:07.

curriculum is for physical education, we should have it for

:38:08.:38:13.

mental health as well. Again, it is a patchy picture. There is some good

:38:14.:38:16.

work going on in schools across the country in terms of teachers that

:38:17.:38:21.

are taking the initiative. Hn my own constituency, I have an indhvidual

:38:22.:38:27.

called Sam West struck, who is a lecture at the University and has

:38:28.:38:32.

done some mindfulness work with community groups and he has now

:38:33.:38:37.

taken it into secondary schools If you look at some of the feedback

:38:38.:38:43.

from schools about the effect as an individual, it raises stand`rds in

:38:44.:38:50.

many cases in terms... But ht is a patchy approach. It needs to be a

:38:51.:39:00.

dedicated time on the curriculum or an issue the governing bodids will

:39:01.:39:06.

take into account. But dumb properly, it will not only, I think,

:39:07.:39:12.

ensure the pressures young people face now, are happy going to school,

:39:13.:39:17.

but you save lives and I thhnk, in some cases, save money in the long

:39:18.:39:24.

term. Is this rocket sciencd? I don't think so in this country, we

:39:25.:39:29.

need to change the attitude to mental well-being. If we get it

:39:30.:39:35.

right in children, as the rdport highlights, then I think thd payback

:39:36.:39:41.

for this country and its economy long-term, is tremendous. C`n I

:39:42.:39:50.

finish where I started in thanking the youth Council for its work and

:39:51.:39:54.

also thank them for another opportunity we've had today to talk

:39:55.:39:58.

about mental health on the floor of the House. I would like to start by

:39:59.:40:12.

commending the member the Dtlwich, West Norwood, for securing `n

:40:13.:40:15.

important debate and raising so many potent issues. The quality of the

:40:16.:40:21.

debate has been high so far. Madam Deputy Speaker, I will start as

:40:22.:40:25.

others have bike paying tribute to the youth Parliament and a shout out

:40:26.:40:30.

to other young members of the youth Parliament in East Sussex, Joshua

:40:31.:40:37.

Morton all fits and Hayward Brown. They do a fantastic job and I hope

:40:38.:40:41.

one day at least a couple of them will be sitting on these benches as

:40:42.:40:46.

grown-up MPs. Madam Deputy Speaker, I am sure you will agree we could do

:40:47.:40:51.

with a more grown-up MPs in the House of Commons going forw`rd.

:40:52.:40:57.

Their mental and my mental councillor Sylvia tidy has done a

:40:58.:41:00.

great job in supporting these young members of the youth Parlialent and

:41:01.:41:04.

is a huge credit to the EIS@ six County Council. I want to p`y to

:41:05.:41:08.

beat to the work of the youth select committee that has produced this

:41:09.:41:13.

important report. It is still shocking how mental health hs

:41:14.:41:17.

treated as second-class health issue, compared to physical

:41:18.:41:22.

illnesses. This month of October, we recognise breast cancer awareness

:41:23.:41:26.

where we were pink ribbon c`mpaigns. This month of October is also went

:41:27.:41:31.

some celebrate Halloween parties up and down the country. But it remains

:41:32.:41:35.

a common occurrence for people to dress up as someone with a lental

:41:36.:41:40.

health illness, because it hs seen as being scary. Portraying lental

:41:41.:41:47.

health patients, hospital p`tients next to flesh eating zombies,

:41:48.:41:53.

because in our culture, sufferers of mental illnesses are often supposed

:41:54.:41:56.

to be feared or ridiculed and that must change. We need to challenge

:41:57.:42:02.

the stigma and attitude that is so present today. We must challenge

:42:03.:42:03.

those prejudices. The and which are just wrong. I am

:42:04.:42:20.

also guilty. As a new MPI rdceived casework, I heard about a young

:42:21.:42:25.

person who is struggling with a eating disorder and had gond away

:42:26.:42:31.

from home. I just assumed it was a girl. When I met the parents, it was

:42:32.:42:39.

a boy. Suicide rates among xoung men are shockingly high. If you are

:42:40.:42:46.

young man between 20 and 49 in the UK, you are more likely to die from

:42:47.:42:52.

suicide than cancer, road accident or heart disease. The shop ,- the

:42:53.:42:58.

statistics are shockingly hhgh. We do better than Japan where ht is the

:42:59.:43:03.

leading cause of death for xoung men. We have to do better whth early

:43:04.:43:10.

diagnosis. It has consequences for young people who are alreadx

:43:11.:43:15.

vulnerable to grooming and exploitation and become mord

:43:16.:43:16.

vulnerable when they suffer from vulnerable when they suffer from

:43:17.:43:22.

mental health issues. I recdntly chaired an inquiry for Barn`rdo s

:43:23.:43:25.

into harmful sexual behaviotr where the victims are survivors and the

:43:26.:43:36.

perpetrators are children as well. Mental health disorders can be

:43:37.:43:39.

factors in children committhng and being victims of sexual abuse. This

:43:40.:43:45.

makes early diagnosis even lore important. We have an issue where

:43:46.:43:50.

these children are recognisdd as troublesome but not vulnerable and

:43:51.:43:54.

suffering from mental illness. We can share best practice across

:43:55.:43:59.

schools, councils and policd services. Integration of edtcation

:44:00.:44:03.

and health is key, something the Member for East Worthing has touched

:44:04.:44:08.

upon. The role of the digit`l world is also important for the ilpact it

:44:09.:44:11.

plays on young people's mental health. The internet can be a

:44:12.:44:18.

difficult -- dangerous vehicle for grooming the vulnerable young people

:44:19.:44:24.

so I welcome the Youth Select Committee recommendation th`t the

:44:25.:44:25.

Department of Health should develop Department of Health should develop

:44:26.:44:29.

a trusting at which young pdople can use to access mental health

:44:30.:44:41.

services,.... The government has done great work on the youth website

:44:42.:44:47.

but it has not made it into art form so I would be grateful for `n update

:44:48.:44:54.

from the Minister. Many MPs have disagreements across the floor of

:44:55.:44:58.

this House but that is one thing we can all agree, that we would be

:44:59.:45:03.

enthusiasm and youthful brahns of enthusiasm and youthful brahns of

:45:04.:45:07.

our hard-working team. I was touched to hear the story of one yotng

:45:08.:45:11.

Parliamentary assistant who lost his brother to suicide. This is Jed s

:45:12.:45:21.

story. He woke up on his dax off to find a Facebook message posted by

:45:22.:45:27.

his brother, it said I am sorry with the location at the needle. A

:45:28.:45:32.

beautiful but tragedies loc`tion on the Isle of Wight. Jed's brother was

:45:33.:45:40.

genuine, hard-working and c`ving. He had suffered a marriage bre`kdown

:45:41.:45:44.

was back to himself with a fantastic new girlfriend but he took his own

:45:45.:45:50.

life. Writing afterwards, Jdd said it was such a shame that he felt he

:45:51.:45:55.

had nothing to live for. I promise I will do everything that I c`n that

:45:56.:46:03.

the world I grow old and will do everything to be caving with a

:46:04.:46:07.

greater willingness to understand people and provide greater support.

:46:08.:46:13.

This experience and others shows what is at stake. We must t`ckle

:46:14.:46:20.

stigma, we need early diagnosis and early support within a senshble time

:46:21.:46:25.

frame. Waiting months for therapy, whether for depression, anxhety or

:46:26.:46:32.

an eating disorder and often just because someone has not reached a

:46:33.:46:37.

trigger level of concern dods not help them, it hinders their recovery

:46:38.:46:40.

because time allows their stffering to get worse and because thdy come

:46:41.:46:46.

to believe their case cannot be important. If it was, surelx the

:46:47.:46:50.

deadly would be provided sooner which means when the servicd is

:46:51.:46:56.

available, it becomes even less likely to be successful. Ond key

:46:57.:47:04.

point in the Youth Select Committee report was that until funding is

:47:05.:47:07.

received in proportion to physical health we do not believe parity of

:47:08.:47:15.

of funding we put into ment`l health of funding we put into ment`l health

:47:16.:47:20.

and therapy is linked to our attitude towards it. Our attitude is

:47:21.:47:24.

linked to the amount of funding we put into it. One must leave the

:47:25.:47:29.

other. In this place, we can meet on the funding, assuring funding and

:47:30.:47:36.

good support for mental health. I welcome all the support the

:47:37.:47:42.

government has produced so far. The investment of an extra 1.4 billion

:47:43.:47:48.

in young people's mental he`lth service is is especially welcome but

:47:49.:47:52.

investing and I would urge the investing and I would urge the

:47:53.:47:57.

Minister to do just that. When funding parity is achieved `nd

:47:58.:48:00.

timely and appropriate support is available for all who need ht, the

:48:01.:48:05.

taboo surrounding mental he`lth can be crushed. Finally, I want to pay

:48:06.:48:11.

tribute to Jed for allowing me to share the touching account of his

:48:12.:48:16.

painful memories of the day his brother committed suicide. By

:48:17.:48:20.

sharing his story, we both help this will prevent others from taking that

:48:21.:48:25.

most desperate route and relained any young person who might be

:48:26.:48:29.

struggling with mental health that they are both valuable and valued.

:48:30.:48:39.

Hear, hear. Many thanks, Madam Deputy Speaker. I would likd to

:48:40.:48:43.

start by thanking Youth Seldct Committee or an excellent and

:48:44.:48:49.

comprehensive report, compiled by our young parliamentarians with

:48:50.:48:53.

experienced evidence. It is extremely thorough and a crddit to

:48:54.:48:58.

them. I would also like to thank the backbench business Dmitri Gruzdev

:48:59.:49:01.

for scheduling this debate, alongside the honourable melber for

:49:02.:49:09.

West Dulwich. I do create a professional interest having worked

:49:10.:49:14.

as a professional counsellor for 20 years. I also had the real privilege

:49:15.:49:22.

of contributing to the eviddnce taken by the Youth Select Committee

:49:23.:49:28.

during its inquiry ensue usdd Mental Health Act this is. Mental health is

:49:29.:49:35.

an extremely wide field, re`ding from major illnesses such as

:49:36.:49:40.

psychosis to depression and anxiety to trauma and eating disorddrs.

:49:41.:49:48.

Child disorders like a DHT `nd autistic spectrum disorders are also

:49:49.:49:53.

often included in this field of mental health. I would welcome

:49:54.:49:57.

future debates on those conditions as well because we will not had time

:49:58.:50:02.

to do them justice today. As a member of the all-party comlittee on

:50:03.:50:06.

autism, I have a particular interest in this field and would comlend a

:50:07.:50:14.

recent report about autism which highlights that 80% of children with

:50:15.:50:20.

autism experience anxiety every single day attending school. Such

:50:21.:50:25.

critical group, we must target our resources and make sure that early

:50:26.:50:29.

diagnosis and support for the young child and the whole family to

:50:30.:50:33.

understand and make sure support is provided. We know that more than

:50:34.:50:40.

half of mental ill-health starts before the age of 14 and 75$ before

:50:41.:50:48.

18. Both early intervention and prevention of mental ill he`lth

:50:49.:50:53.

during childhood I a key. Absolutely critical in relation to redtcing

:50:54.:50:59.

morbidity and enabling effective interventions because the qticker we

:51:00.:51:04.

intervene, the more effectively we intervene and also in terms of NHS

:51:05.:51:10.

cost effectiveness. In 2014, I health improvement and efficiency

:51:11.:51:15.

Scotland and across the UK leaning Scotland and across the UK leaning

:51:16.:51:21.

that patients should be seen upon referral in 18 weeks includhng CAMHS

:51:22.:51:28.

services. The figures suggest that 84% of children and as a le`d

:51:29.:51:31.

Scotland are treated within this time. The benchmark is 90% so we

:51:32.:51:36.

have come a long way in this regard but we have to travel. Therd are now

:51:37.:51:42.

significantly increased refdrral rates, which may mean incre`sed

:51:43.:51:48.

figures but we also mean th`t the stigma is reducing and people feel

:51:49.:51:54.

more able to present so it hs a mixed picture. Mental health this is

:51:55.:51:58.

in Scotland and across the TK are not the finished article. -,

:51:59.:52:04.

services. We should strive towards improvement which should be guided

:52:05.:52:08.

by patient need and research underpinning most effective clinical

:52:09.:52:14.

health problems in childhood are health problems in childhood are

:52:15.:52:20.

extremely serious. At worst, they can destroy educational potdntial

:52:21.:52:28.

and at least they can impedd it and relations with peers and within the

:52:29.:52:33.

family. This is critical, wd must address these issues. They can also

:52:34.:52:40.

lead to suicide and self harm. Difficulties must be assessdd and

:52:41.:52:46.

recognised at an early stagd. Widespread staff training h`s been

:52:47.:52:50.

undertaken in Scotland to try to ensure that we can pick up tpon

:52:51.:52:56.

mental health issues within this age group. Cognitive behaviour therapy,

:52:57.:53:01.

family therapy and interpersonal therapy and intervention for eating

:53:02.:53:07.

disorders with a focus on S`int close to home as possible h`ve been

:53:08.:53:13.

rolled out. We must make continual progress. Then acquires to be

:53:14.:53:17.

additional resource link for services or inpatients. Inp`tient

:53:18.:53:24.

treatment in itself should for patience and adolescents be a last

:53:25.:53:28.

resort because it takes children away from the family home. Best

:53:29.:53:34.

practice highlights intensive outreach approaches enabling

:53:35.:53:39.

children to be seen at home and treated in the natural environment

:53:40.:53:42.

so maximising key family and peer support. Children who need hnpatient

:53:43.:53:50.

services may suffer psychoshs, eating disorders or

:53:51.:53:57.

obsessive-compulsive disorddrs or a variety of conditions. Currdntly

:53:58.:54:00.

there are 48 beds available in Scotland and ?8 million has been

:54:01.:54:06.

pledged to build a new unit for adolescents in Dundee. We mtst

:54:07.:54:10.

ensure that service and provision meet the need to. I clinical

:54:11.:54:15.

experience suggests a lack of beds in forensic and learning disability

:54:16.:54:21.

child and mental health this is and I believe that should be addressed.

:54:22.:54:26.

Moving back to the report, H welcome it and I welcome its findings. There

:54:27.:54:32.

needs to be better communic`tion channels... When children's care is

:54:33.:54:36.

transferred between professhonals and also importantly as has been

:54:37.:54:42.

described at key stages of development, such as moving from

:54:43.:54:46.

adolescent to adult services, the requires to be a component of the

:54:47.:54:52.

training programme for general practitioners identifying children's

:54:53.:54:55.

mental health issues. I would include symptoms of autism spectrum

:54:56.:55:03.

disorder and hyper attention deficit with them that training bec`use we

:55:04.:55:07.

need to shorten the time of presentation to the feral. Picking

:55:08.:55:15.

up symptoms quickly helps whth this. -- to rip feral. These are `ll

:55:16.:55:22.

fundamental coping skills which impact on everyday aspects for a

:55:23.:55:28.

functioning and deserve mord of a health and well-being slant rather

:55:29.:55:33.

than a diagnosis one. So access to mental health specialist in schools

:55:34.:55:36.

is minuted as well as mental health awareness and training and

:55:37.:55:41.

especially training for Sue Taft in schools so they can pick up at an

:55:42.:55:47.

early stage. -- for staff in schools. And help them to access

:55:48.:55:52.

services. Specialist training for teachers would be a positivd step

:55:53.:55:58.

forward. Education for children is also crucial so they can iddntify

:55:59.:56:02.

when they are struggling and what makes for a good mental well-being.

:56:03.:56:09.

They can seek help when needed or identify when appeal is strtggling.

:56:10.:56:13.

Young people like to be involved and should be involved in their

:56:14.:56:18.

carefully. We also need to lodernise our approaches to mental he`lth is

:56:19.:56:23.

for children and adolescents and embrace the social media idda of

:56:24.:56:27.

communicating with young people because it is the modern world and

:56:28.:56:28.

it is where they communicatd. We have an application webshte

:56:29.:56:40.

called save spots to promotd positive coping skills, safdty

:56:41.:56:45.

planning and access to information about mental health services for

:56:46.:56:49.

young people. It is a good step forward and I am aware

:56:50.:56:53.

recommendations for online standardisation and approval of

:56:54.:56:59.

resources, would be a key step. We must also address bullying `nd

:57:00.:57:03.

particularly online bullying, which appears to be on the increase and

:57:04.:57:06.

very, very badly affecting children's lives. Everywherd, we

:57:07.:57:16.

must address bullying. Only this summer when I was discussing mental

:57:17.:57:22.

health, was I informed by NLP who was appearing on a delegation I was

:57:23.:57:28.

on, MPs have a high suicide rate, which is something I was un`ware of.

:57:29.:57:34.

We must lead by example, we must ensure mental health and well-being

:57:35.:57:36.

is addressed in all aspects of life and provide a role model. There

:57:37.:57:44.

remains a lack of data regarding effective interventions for young

:57:45.:57:52.

people with mental health difficulties are coupled with

:57:53.:57:56.

learning difficulties and social issues. That needs to be buhlt upon

:57:57.:58:01.

for future research and tre`tment programmes. I would like to touch on

:58:02.:58:06.

services for looked after and accommodated children, becatse they

:58:07.:58:10.

some of the most disadvantaged children with the magnitude of

:58:11.:58:15.

difficulties they present whth. We have violent rest needs and self

:58:16.:58:20.

harm needs. Further self provision for specialist groups and

:58:21.:58:22.

underpinning research are crucial and I'm pleased at the First

:58:23.:58:26.

Minister is going to be pledging to these groups. Given the weight of

:58:27.:58:32.

evidence for child and adoldscent mental health services is in favour

:58:33.:58:39.

of psychological rather than from a logical interventions, clear

:58:40.:58:43.

structures need to be in pl`ce to support the delivery of effdctive

:58:44.:58:46.

evidence -based psychologic`l therapies for children and

:58:47.:58:53.

adolescents. Child and adoldscent psychology posts have doubldd in

:58:54.:58:59.

Scotland but we need to continue and strengthen this progress. Those from

:59:00.:59:04.

socially disadvantaged backgrounds have tended to have a poorer uptake

:59:05.:59:08.

of these services and in thdse cases, an assertive outreach

:59:09.:59:15.

approach may be required so most of those requiring it most don't slip

:59:16.:59:19.

through the net. Mental health services do require a considerable

:59:20.:59:28.

funding. This is beyond party politics, it is crucial to tackle

:59:29.:59:32.

this meaningfully in a cross-party manner, sharing best practice across

:59:33.:59:36.

the whole of the United Kingdom We need real progress to reach children

:59:37.:59:40.

and other lessons and to help all of our children achieve their full

:59:41.:59:49.

potential. It is a great pldasure to follow the honourable member for

:59:50.:59:57.

East Kilbride. I particularly applaud...

:59:58.:00:17.

I particularly applaud the point made about making this very much a

:00:18.:00:23.

cross-party matter we can all walk together. As the young people have

:00:24.:00:28.

shown is from this fantastic report, working together on a matter like

:00:29.:00:31.

this is only going to help `ll voices be heard and recognised. Can

:00:32.:00:40.

I thank the honourable membdr for sponsoring this debate. I ghve my

:00:41.:00:46.

apologies for being back and forth. In a way it may describe too many

:00:47.:00:50.

watching as to why there ard so few MPs on these benches today. I have

:00:51.:00:57.

taken into account the point made my right honourable friend for East

:00:58.:01:00.

Worthing Shoreham, it would be good to have these debates sponsored

:01:01.:01:04.

during government time when members may not be in their constittencies.

:01:05.:01:09.

Thursday afternoon is when Bill committees sit and government and

:01:10.:01:12.

opposition members are requhred to be there as well. I should hasten to

:01:13.:01:18.

add, I should also be in a Bill committee, but I was so detdrmined

:01:19.:01:21.

to speak on this matter, I have come to speak on these benches. Ht is for

:01:22.:01:26.

that reason I will always bd asking for more from ministers frol these

:01:27.:01:32.

benches, rather than being on the benches delivering it myself. I

:01:33.:01:36.

commend this 2015 youth seldct committee report. I applaud the

:01:37.:01:43.

90,000 young people who took part in the vote, but the 90,000 people who

:01:44.:01:49.

voted for mental health services for young people to be their prhority

:01:50.:01:53.

issue of concern. They are absolutely right to be focused on

:01:54.:01:57.

this issue. They are in the best position to give their opinhon on

:01:58.:02:02.

this subject. Madam Deputy Speaker, I decided it was achieve prhority

:02:03.:02:07.

for me when I became elected as an MP in East Sussex 18 months ago

:02:08.:02:12.

Upon my election, the severhty on this issue, bit sickly among young

:02:13.:02:18.

people became apparent. I found as I still do, the stories of carefree,

:02:19.:02:24.

confident and happy lives bding shut down as young people enter ` dark

:02:25.:02:29.

world of fear, anxiety and hsolation to be incredibly upsetting. As a

:02:30.:02:34.

result of my concern, I chose this issue when being pulled out of the

:02:35.:02:38.

hat for my first Prime Minister 's question. I told the then Prime

:02:39.:02:43.

Minister I have spent an afternoon in my constituency visiting three

:02:44.:02:48.

families, each had a child who they felt had not been given the

:02:49.:02:52.

early-stage intervention be expected by the child and adolescent mental

:02:53.:02:57.

health services. I asked thd Prime Minister for more focus on

:02:58.:03:00.

early-stage treatment so yotng people don't find their condition

:03:01.:03:04.

becoming more acute. Madam Deputy Speaker, it is not just our civic

:03:05.:03:08.

duty, it is an economic and social imperative. When my constittents ask

:03:09.:03:14.

me why the roads in East Sussex are in a state, I explain I havd secured

:03:15.:03:24.

?250,000 just to fund one ydar's treatment for youth mental health.

:03:25.:03:32.

Fixing health has to come bdfore fixing the tarmac. It is a huge

:03:33.:03:36.

financial concern to my County Council colleagues. Madam Ddputy

:03:37.:03:42.

Speaker, I firmly believe there is too much pressure being loaded on

:03:43.:03:48.

people too young. Social media and the Internet, as pioneering as it

:03:49.:03:52.

is, is a curse on well-being. The Internet service providers need to

:03:53.:03:56.

be forced to do more. Every young people should have the right to have

:03:57.:04:01.

their web history expunged `nd deleted. Cyber-bullying is

:04:02.:04:05.

recognised as a crime, but dvery school needs to ensure their pupils

:04:06.:04:08.

are aware of good Internet practice and the sanctions for abuse. We also

:04:09.:04:14.

need to be aware that young people and children are accessing graphic

:04:15.:04:18.

images and media they cannot understand. Can I just turndd to the

:04:19.:04:27.

report, page 52. It talks about education and I commend the

:04:28.:04:31.

statement which recommends the government develop and introduce

:04:32.:04:35.

statutory levels of attainmdnt for mental health education. Schools

:04:36.:04:41.

should have autonomy to delhver mental health education flexibly,

:04:42.:04:44.

but must demonstrate how pupils reached the attainment levels. In so

:04:45.:04:48.

doing, may I suggest the curriculum looks at social media and the

:04:49.:04:51.

Internet when combining mental health well-being training. We also

:04:52.:04:57.

need to look at training from GPs. It is summed up by the young person

:04:58.:05:02.

who wrote up their experience in paragraph 32 of this excelldnt

:05:03.:05:07.

report. To me it is essenti`l the GP doesn't diagnose mental health

:05:08.:05:11.

condition but refers the yotng person to a specialist. I know

:05:12.:05:15.

mental health specialists fhnd it frustrating to have GPs diagnose

:05:16.:05:18.

mental health condition when the specialist doesn't regard it as

:05:19.:05:22.

such. Once the barge is givdn, it is difficult to remove. Equallx, I have

:05:23.:05:29.

brilliant GPs, such as thosd in surgeries who helped Mike

:05:30.:05:33.

constituents in Battle who have championed young people, and are

:05:34.:05:38.

frustrated that the delay in early intervention in mental health

:05:39.:05:41.

services. I work closely with my local CAMS team and have thd highest

:05:42.:05:44.

regard for the many excellent specialists who do their best.

:05:45.:05:51.

However, it is of concern to me constituents face lengthy w`iting

:05:52.:05:55.

times and some have been pushed from politicos when receiving trdatment.

:05:56.:05:58.

Building trust is a key in treatment in successful diagnosis and

:05:59.:06:02.

treatment. I hear stories of young people finding the courage `nd trust

:06:03.:06:06.

to open up about their condhtion, only to find there is a new

:06:07.:06:10.

practitioner at the subsequdnt session. It disappoints me to find

:06:11.:06:13.

the young person has regressed because of the change of personnel.

:06:14.:06:17.

I would like a commitment to treatment being given on a fixed

:06:18.:06:22.

one-to-one basis. If we can do this for maternity provision, surely we

:06:23.:06:26.

can do it for mental health treatment. When attending the mental

:06:27.:06:29.

health task force Lodge, how was buoyed by the commitment by the

:06:30.:06:35.

chief executive of NHS Engl`nd to implement the five-year report. The

:06:36.:06:38.

aspect that cheered me was the commitment of funds to ensure acute

:06:39.:06:45.

hospitals have adequate mental health expertise on A awards. To

:06:46.:06:52.

deal with those hospitalised as a result of mental health isstes or

:06:53.:06:55.

have such a condition in addition to a physical illness. What drove my

:06:56.:07:00.

concern was the experience of a family in my constituency following

:07:01.:07:05.

a suicide attempt. The NHS didn t have the ability to do with the

:07:06.:07:09.

mental health condition and my constituent, young man in hhs teens,

:07:10.:07:14.

was forced to wait until CALS stuff could make their way over from

:07:15.:07:18.

another town miles away. I understand the need for specialist

:07:19.:07:21.

treatment, but there is the need for a culture change across the entirety

:07:22.:07:25.

of the NHS and all staff should be trained to understand mental health

:07:26.:07:29.

and provide a basic level of treatment in the area.

:07:30.:07:32.

Specialisation in the health service is important, but if the NHS becomes

:07:33.:07:38.

overly specialise, it can ldad to a lack of general involvement for care

:07:39.:07:43.

for patients in such areas. I know the government will fund 24 hours a

:07:44.:07:49.

day provisions in our hospitals but I was stunned by the chief dxecutive

:07:50.:07:52.

of my local trust who said the funding may not stretch far enough

:07:53.:07:57.

to deliver for that time. I want to ensure this coverage will not mean

:07:58.:08:02.

other NHS staff with the necessary levels of empathy feel they are not

:08:03.:08:05.

empowered to help many patidnts in hospital who need help with their

:08:06.:08:08.

mental health care in addithon to their physical well-being. H

:08:09.:08:13.

ultimately believe getting early-stage intervention right is a

:08:14.:08:16.

key part of getting proper diagnosis for people with their mental health

:08:17.:08:23.

condition. I don't believe we should Miss diagnose young people who are

:08:24.:08:27.

suffering growing pains and need families and friends guidance to

:08:28.:08:30.

overcome the problems of adolescence, but I have met too many

:08:31.:08:34.

young children who face a dhfficult future because their mental health

:08:35.:08:38.

condition was not treated at an early stage. Funding in mental

:08:39.:08:42.

health treatment is the most important investment, not only for

:08:43.:08:46.

welfare and well-being, but enable these amazing young people to fulfil

:08:47.:08:50.

their hopes and dreams and their careers and make something of

:08:51.:08:54.

themselves and their countrx. So Madam Deputy Speaker, I absolutely

:08:55.:08:56.

applaud the amazing work of all those involved in the British youth

:08:57.:09:01.

Council, many of whom are in my county of East Sussex and h`ve done

:09:02.:09:04.

so much to produce this excdllent report. These young people `re

:09:05.:09:09.

leading the charge to ensurd the nation supports all those affected

:09:10.:09:12.

by this terrible condition. We owe it to them and young people to

:09:13.:09:19.

deliver better mental health service and all of the recommendations in

:09:20.:09:25.

this report will do just th`t. It is a pleasure to follow the honourable

:09:26.:09:28.

member full backs hill and battle and I congratulate the membdr for

:09:29.:09:32.

Dulwich and West Norwood for securing this debate and my

:09:33.:09:38.

honourable friend is having quite a week. She has pressed the Prime

:09:39.:09:41.

Minister this week about thd serious issue of child sexual explohtation

:09:42.:09:47.

in her constituency. She is helping to lead the charge on the

:09:48.:09:50.

homelessness reduction Bill as well. Just delighted she found tile to be

:09:51.:09:56.

here and lead the debate thhs afternoon. As one of the eldcted

:09:57.:10:00.

honorary presidents of the British youth Council, I am delightdd this

:10:01.:10:05.

debate arises from the select committee's report into young

:10:06.:10:10.

people's mental health. I hope the FAQ members of Parliament h`ve taken

:10:11.:10:14.

the initiative to make sure we are debating it here in the House of

:10:15.:10:17.

Commons, reassures the UK youth Parliament, youth councils `nd

:10:18.:10:23.

people generally their voicd is being heard and challenge now is to

:10:24.:10:27.

make sure they are being listened to by government. Is also worth saying

:10:28.:10:34.

that much of the profile thd UK youth Parliament enjoys arotnd the

:10:35.:10:38.

houses of parliament, particularly with the annual sitting, whhch will

:10:39.:10:42.

be due to take place in this chamber on the 11th of November, arhses out

:10:43.:10:47.

of the personal support of Lr Speaker. I speak on behalf of of so

:10:48.:10:53.

many people involved in thanking Mr Speaker for his consistent champing

:10:54.:10:59.

of young people and democracy. My interest and the reason why I am

:11:00.:11:04.

here, partly spends as my thme as deputy cabinet minister for health

:11:05.:11:09.

and well-being in Redbridge. But the reason I have chosen to be here on

:11:10.:11:15.

Thursday afternoon is because of the experience I have had both `s a

:11:16.:11:19.

counsellor and of a member of Parliament in listening dirdctly to

:11:20.:11:23.

young people talking about their concerns and their issues, `nd their

:11:24.:11:27.

friends' issues with mental ill-health. In Redbridge, wd have a

:11:28.:11:34.

fantastic youth Council, th`t like the National UK youth Parli`ment,

:11:35.:11:37.

has prioritised work on mental health and I will come on to talk

:11:38.:11:39.

about that. I was struck, listening to xoung

:11:40.:11:52.

people across our borough, talking in an open and candid and courageous

:11:53.:11:57.

way about their own strugglds with mental health and what they have

:11:58.:11:59.

seen in the classroom and communities. Although much of what

:12:00.:12:06.

they were describing was harrowing, it was concerning from a public

:12:07.:12:11.

policy point of view, I think it is encouraging that this young

:12:12.:12:14.

generation of young people seem to be far more into discussing mental

:12:15.:12:20.

health and have mobilised this discussion NLB that physical ailment

:12:21.:12:28.

discussion is normal. That will help change the culture around mdntal

:12:29.:12:32.

health discussions. More recently, I chaired a meeting on the yotth

:12:33.:12:39.

affairs on mental health and again, seeing young people across the

:12:40.:12:44.

country filled the largest committee rooms in the House of Commons was

:12:45.:12:48.

hugely encouraging, but the key message which came across w`s about

:12:49.:12:55.

the failure of public services and health services to address concerns

:12:56.:13:00.

that many of these young people had personally experienced. We know from

:13:01.:13:04.

much of the research and thd excellent briefings we have had from

:13:05.:13:11.

charities, that there are significant and well-known problems

:13:12.:13:13.

nationally when it comes to mental ill-health affecting young people.

:13:14.:13:20.

One in ten young children and young people has a diagnosable mental

:13:21.:13:25.

health condition, which is the equivalent of three children in

:13:26.:13:29.

every classroom. We also know there are many more who suffer periods of

:13:30.:13:33.

anxiety, emotional distress and ill-health because of the growing

:13:34.:13:37.

pressures of childhood. That should give us pause for thought and cause

:13:38.:13:42.

for concern. Three quarters of young people with mental health m`y not

:13:43.:13:45.

get access to the treatment they need. I was concerned with `

:13:46.:13:51.

statistic which my friend mdntioned that CAMHS are turning away

:13:52.:13:57.

children, up to one quarter of children referred for treatlent by

:13:58.:14:04.

parents and teachers and GPs. It cannot be acceptable but such a high

:14:05.:14:08.

proportion of children who have been referred by people with expdrt C --

:14:09.:14:13.

expertise, to be turned awax like that is unacceptable. I will give

:14:14.:14:20.

way. Thank you. He is making a powerful contribution. I drhp in

:14:21.:14:29.

Nottingham published report on research they had taken. Thdy found

:14:30.:14:34.

26% of young people had not sought any help or treatment despite facing

:14:35.:14:38.

a mental health problem. Th`t was twice as likely end minoritx and

:14:39.:14:46.

ethnic young people. Does hd agree we need to do more to raise

:14:47.:14:52.

awareness of the ability to seek out help and that has to take into

:14:53.:14:54.

account the needs of all yotng people? I agree with what mx

:14:55.:15:01.

leads me onto a point which is about leads me onto a point which is about

:15:02.:15:05.

provision young people. It hs not just the case that young people

:15:06.:15:10.

generally are finding difficulty accessing mental health is hs, I

:15:11.:15:13.

think the government and he`lth services need to look careftlly at

:15:14.:15:18.

the profile of young people who are affected. During my time as head of

:15:19.:15:23.

education at Stonewall, we published a school report which was a piece of

:15:24.:15:28.

research done with young people by the University of Cambridge which

:15:29.:15:32.

found exceptionally high and extremely worrying levels of mental

:15:33.:15:38.

health amongst lesbian, gay and transsexual people. Many of the

:15:39.:15:46.

numbers of self harm which have been referred to are higher amongst this

:15:47.:15:53.

group. The incidence of harl amongst LB GT people is higher, a ntmber of

:15:54.:16:02.

them are self harming and around one quarter have attempted suichde or

:16:03.:16:08.

considered taking their own lives. That is epidemic proportions and

:16:09.:16:12.

points to a crisis for LB GT people. This leads to provision... H will.

:16:13.:16:20.

Thank you. He will be interdsted to know that this same report

:16:21.:16:26.

identifies young people who are identified as homosexual or bisexual

:16:27.:16:31.

were most likely to have experienced mental health issues but whdn

:16:32.:16:36.

seeking treatment or support their experiences were more likelx to be

:16:37.:16:40.

negative. Does that give more credence to the need to address

:16:41.:16:46.

their specific needs? It re`lly does. One thing which concerns me

:16:47.:16:51.

most about the poor experience that young people have with ment`l health

:16:52.:16:59.

services, reflected at the Parliamentary group, it is not just

:17:00.:17:04.

GPs and teachers to recognise young people are being failed and turned

:17:05.:17:09.

away, it is young people thdmselves. I cannot imagine what it must be

:17:10.:17:14.

like to be a young person stffering from depression or anxiety or

:17:15.:17:20.

something else, now that yot have a problem, going to seek help and then

:17:21.:17:22.

being left to feel ignored, being left to feel ignored,

:17:23.:17:28.

dismissed and unsupported. H have mentioned the proportion for LB GT

:17:29.:17:35.

people is higher, it is higher for trans-young people. I represent a

:17:36.:17:42.

highly diverse community, ethnically and religiously and it worrhes me

:17:43.:17:48.

that Asian communities seem to be far less likely to seek accdss to

:17:49.:17:53.

mental health this is. Therd is a job to tackle stigma there. --

:17:54.:18:00.

mental health services. Also in Afro-Caribbean communities, in

:18:01.:18:09.

addition to all the other f`ilures around public policy towards

:18:10.:18:13.

Afro-Caribbean people, it is an indictment that the majoritx of

:18:14.:18:17.

Afro-Caribbean people come hnto conflict with their mental health

:18:18.:18:21.

system through the criminal justice system. That is a terrible system --

:18:22.:18:29.

state of affairs. Partly thhs is about funding. We have had `

:18:30.:18:34.

good-natured debate this afternoon. I am not trying to be objectionable

:18:35.:18:42.

week, there were three or four week, there were three or four

:18:43.:18:45.

members of the side of the House who raised the issue of mental health.

:18:46.:18:54.

To the Minister. Her responses were quite inadequate. Beyond general

:18:55.:18:59.

statements about parity of dsteem, the Prime Minister seemed unable to

:19:00.:19:03.

point to any meaningful acthon she was aware how come -- her government

:19:04.:19:09.

was taking regarding mental health. The Minister is hear this afternoon

:19:10.:19:12.

but the prime minister needs to make this a priority of horrors. Much of

:19:13.:19:22.

this is about joined up govdrnment. -- priority of hers. It is not good

:19:23.:19:28.

for the Prime Minister to the short fitted or wrong headed. We need

:19:29.:19:34.

stronger leadership on ment`l health stronger leadership on ment`l health

:19:35.:19:37.

from the Prime Minister and I was disappointed with what we s`w during

:19:38.:19:40.

Prime Minister's Questions this week. Parity of esteem is not about

:19:41.:19:50.

funding, it is about resources. When you look at the front -- spdnd on

:19:51.:19:56.

children, just 6.3% of the 01% is spent on children. I recognhse the

:19:57.:20:03.

government has made a commitment to invest 1.4 billion in children's

:20:04.:20:06.

mental health over the next few years and I welcome that but I would

:20:07.:20:10.

encourage the government to deliver that funding sooner rather than

:20:11.:20:15.

later. When you look at the picture locally, budgets have been cut and

:20:16.:20:24.

frozen. Seven in ten health trusts and local authorities are freezing

:20:25.:20:27.

their budgets because of prdssure from central government. My

:20:28.:20:35.

honourable friend has highlhghted future divisions which are coming

:20:36.:20:40.

down the track. This will m`ke that picture even worse. Within the

:20:41.:20:44.

London Borough of Redbridge the council is doing fantastic work with

:20:45.:20:49.

limited resources, but I can say with first-hand experience `s an

:20:50.:20:57.

elected member of the borough that cuts are abating. That is bding

:20:58.:21:02.

compounded by the picture of our local health authority, both of our

:21:03.:21:07.

NHS trusts are in special mdasures. Both heads will be leaving sooner

:21:08.:21:15.

rather than later. Primary care is creaking. Our clinical group is

:21:16.:21:20.

struggling. Our community hdalth trust is an a rating which requires

:21:21.:21:27.

improvements. Part of the challenge for Redbridge in particular is that

:21:28.:21:31.

it is not simply about fundhng reductions which are affecthng the

:21:32.:21:35.

borough but that the funding formula does not lead to a settlement for

:21:36.:21:40.

Redbridge that genuinely reflects the needs of our population. I would

:21:41.:21:46.

urge the Minister to look c`refully at the wider public health funding

:21:47.:21:50.

in Redbridge has been disadvantaged through the public formula `nd say

:21:51.:21:55.

what we can do about that. H certainly will. Thank you, H am

:21:56.:22:01.

grateful to them for giving way I do not want to enter skirmish about

:22:02.:22:05.

funding but would he agree with me that in my area, east Sussex, the

:22:06.:22:10.

way to find efficiency savings that the NHS requires to do, is to have a

:22:11.:22:17.

better together organisation so that the hospitals and all the other

:22:18.:22:21.

health care providers are all together talking? This will save

:22:22.:22:26.

money and will make everyond join up and as he said, that is the best way

:22:27.:22:33.

forward. I welcome that intdrvention and he has anticipated some of my

:22:34.:22:38.

closing remarks. I will havd positive remarks about government

:22:39.:22:42.

policy in that respect. It hs not just about funding, it is about

:22:43.:22:47.

leadership and accountability. I have to say that the damning CQC

:22:48.:22:54.

report into the Brookside unit in the constituency of Ilford South

:22:55.:23:01.

Morgan raised eyebrows. Somd of the judgment is the CQC made about a

:23:02.:23:04.

facility which is therefore children's mental health provision,

:23:05.:23:09.

the ward environments were tnsafe, unclean and not suited to the care

:23:10.:23:14.

of young people. The wards were not adequately staffed. There w`s a use

:23:15.:23:20.

of restraint and tranquillised esure and of the unit. The ethos of the

:23:21.:23:24.

unit was containment. Care plans are unit was containment. Care plans are

:23:25.:23:30.

not recover the orientated. During the inspection resource staff

:23:31.:23:34.

refused to facilitate progrdss of young people. Young people stated

:23:35.:23:38.

the quality of food did not cater for cultural and religious needs. If

:23:39.:23:44.

you know the London Borough of Redbridge, you know how tot`lly

:23:45.:23:49.

inappropriate that is. My qtestion to the trust is simple, why did it

:23:50.:23:55.

CQC before sufficient action was CQC before sufficient action was

:23:56.:24:04.

taken? For what I concede, from conversations with colleaguds in the

:24:05.:24:07.

local authority there is cldarly a road to improvement but it should

:24:08.:24:13.

not take inspectors to come in and highlight unforgivable failtre is to

:24:14.:24:16.

some of our most vulnerable young people. And at the worst experiences

:24:17.:24:22.

I have had a second constittency MP, universally the worst experhence as

:24:23.:24:29.

a constituency MP are Fridax afternoons in my surgeries when some

:24:30.:24:34.

of the awful cases I see with people who have been badly failed by public

:24:35.:24:38.

services. One case which I will never forget was the case of Simon

:24:39.:24:46.

Harris, a 30-year-old young man who was failed by a hospital because he

:24:47.:24:54.

was insufficiently cared for, he was allowed under the care of the NHS to

:24:55.:25:00.

take his own life while on the very place his family thought wotld keep

:25:01.:25:06.

them safe. I never want to have a conversation with a constittent

:25:07.:25:11.

again like the one I had with his stoic and courageous grandmother.

:25:12.:25:14.

That is the consequence for mental health failure. It is simplx the

:25:15.:25:17.

difference between life and death and I do not think that young people

:25:18.:25:22.

like Simon should ever be f`iled in that way by services which should be

:25:23.:25:26.

there to keep them safe and well. This is not just about the public

:25:27.:25:33.

service provision, it is also about celebrating the work that the

:25:34.:25:41.

voluntary sector does. In mx constituency, I have visited a whole

:25:42.:25:49.

number of programmes, for example I visited audacious vegetable which

:25:50.:25:56.

involves people setting up their own enterprise, growing vegetables and

:25:57.:26:01.

selling them on. It is a wonderful project and runs in conjunction with

:26:02.:26:06.

another project which gets people with mental health outside `nd

:26:07.:26:11.

interacting with people and active. I cannot strongly recommend to the

:26:12.:26:17.

Minister enough the importance of social describing. Public policy

:26:18.:26:21.

does have a role to play. When Redbridge youth Council comlissioned

:26:22.:26:26.

one centre to design and deliver a play on mental health to shtn

:26:27.:26:34.

people, 5000 people across the area were engaged by that conversation

:26:35.:26:39.

about mental health. Music can have a powerful role in therapy `nd one

:26:40.:26:43.

of the most impressive projdcts I visited in the last 12 months was

:26:44.:26:49.

one sponsored by the London playing fields foundation run in conjunction

:26:50.:26:55.

with another foundation trust which got young people outside,

:26:56.:26:59.

interactive, developing thehr skills and most importantly their

:27:00.:27:00.

self-esteem. That brings me to the futurd, taking

:27:01.:27:12.

the policy in different dirdctions. I have looked at the funding formula

:27:13.:27:16.

for public health, and I hope that she will undertake to do th`t. But I

:27:17.:27:24.

want the Minister to work whth her colleagues about funding nationally,

:27:25.:27:29.

the Honourable member for Bdxhill, talked about joining up

:27:30.:27:31.

organisations particularly the NHS and I commend the approach for the

:27:32.:27:38.

accountable care organisations. That is bringing together the local

:27:39.:27:48.

authority with stakeholders from across the economy to join tp public

:27:49.:27:53.

provision. I think that will bear fruit. But we also need the

:27:54.:28:02.

government, joined up nationally. Fighting corners for public to

:28:03.:28:10.

become a money saver, because with horror department we can reduce

:28:11.:28:15.

accident emergency admissions, and the demand for primary care if we

:28:16.:28:20.

get funding right. But she `lso needs to make the case with the

:28:21.:28:24.

Secretary of State and other departments, for example it is no

:28:25.:28:29.

good the Treasury making cuts to local government if that le`ds the

:28:30.:28:33.

cut a public health funding, undermining the work that the

:28:34.:28:40.

department has been doing. Hf that leads to a spike in crime, Greater

:28:41.:28:46.

demand on the criminal justhce system, and with education ht is no

:28:47.:28:49.

good asking Ofsted to inspect schools about mental health

:28:50.:28:58.

provision, if school referr`ls are going unheard. And we cannot

:28:59.:29:06.

continue with this postcode lottery, with sexual and health educ`tion, I

:29:07.:29:10.

hope that we can revisit thd issue about PSHE. Finally, and most

:29:11.:29:17.

importantly, the reason that we are here, I am urging the Minister to

:29:18.:29:20.

listen to young people and the fact that the Minister is your this

:29:21.:29:25.

afternoon shows the importance that the government places on thhs

:29:26.:29:29.

report, and the views of yotng people. My great honourable friend

:29:30.:29:35.

talked about the importance of involving young people in the design

:29:36.:29:38.

of public services and that is absolutely critical. But thdy have

:29:39.:29:43.

also had a series of recommdndation that deserve the attention of the

:29:44.:29:46.

house and the response of government. And if that happens I

:29:47.:29:51.

think we will get better public policy, but hopefully a gendration

:29:52.:29:57.

of John people whose voice has been heard, and most importantly listen

:29:58.:30:03.

to. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to follow ly right

:30:04.:30:09.

honourable friend, the membdr for Ilford North. And I want to

:30:10.:30:14.

congratulate my great honourable friend, and the backbench committee

:30:15.:30:20.

for allowing this debate. I have got a new member of staff at

:30:21.:30:24.

Westminster, who only startdd with me last week. He's 18 going on 8.

:30:25.:30:36.

Cool, calm, collected. I have only seen him panic once so far, when he

:30:37.:30:42.

lost his hair gel. And by an amazing coincidence years from the village

:30:43.:30:51.

in south Wales where I was born I used to do judo with his mul. As I

:30:52.:30:56.

have said before, Madam Deptty Speaker, Wales is one big f`mily,

:30:57.:31:00.

that has advantages and disadvantages. In many ways, this is

:31:01.:31:10.

Matthew's maiden speech. He was a member of the youth Parliamdnt, and

:31:11.:31:13.

has been elected to represent Wales at the youth Parliament, in this

:31:14.:31:20.

chamber, on the 11th of Novdmber. The calibre of the debate is always

:31:21.:31:28.

exceptionally high, at times, even better than ours! I would urge all

:31:29.:31:34.

the right honourable member is to show support for the United Kingdom

:31:35.:31:42.

youth Parliament. Each year, the United Kingdom youth Parlialent

:31:43.:31:47.

holds a UK wide ballot, Makd your Mark. It allows young peopld to vote

:31:48.:31:53.

and campaign on issues important to them. The five campaigns with the

:31:54.:31:56.

most votes are being debated by members of the youth Parlialent at

:31:57.:32:06.

the annual sitting of this chamber. Matthew has asked that I th`nk the

:32:07.:32:10.

house following this opporttnity. In 2014, more than 90,000 votes cast,

:32:11.:32:17.

specifically to campaign for the improvement of mental health

:32:18.:32:20.

services. Following the deb`te, the youth Parliament voted to c`mpaign

:32:21.:32:28.

on youth mental health servhces It subsequently launched an enpuiry

:32:29.:32:32.

into mental health provision, publishing the report in November

:32:33.:32:37.

2000 15. Today, this report comes before the house for debate. What

:32:38.:32:43.

this report indicates, simply, that we have a lack of proper support for

:32:44.:32:48.

John people with mental health issues. Nearly 850,000 people aged

:32:49.:32:55.

between five and 16 suffering from a mental health issue. Clearlx, a need

:32:56.:33:02.

for good quality mental health provision. The fact that ovdr 9 ,000

:33:03.:33:07.

young people voted for this is the priority campaign is indicative of

:33:08.:33:10.

the standard of service, thd provision fallen far short than the

:33:11.:33:17.

standard of service inspectdd. It is not even the case that the service

:33:18.:33:21.

provided is good. But young people expect excellent. They deserve

:33:22.:33:29.

excellent. It is the case that the service simply substandard. In

:33:30.:33:32.

written evidence to the comlittee, youth Parliament members, and one

:33:33.:33:38.

young person in particular dxplained frustration. I quote... Aftdr a lot

:33:39.:33:45.

of deliberation, I decided to take myself to my GP. Searching for

:33:46.:33:51.

support. What you must remelber the amount of courage it takes to open

:33:52.:33:57.

up about mental health issuds. It is extremely difficult for somdone who

:33:58.:34:00.

is totally confused about what is going on in their life, to openly

:34:01.:34:08.

talk about having suicidal feelings, in a five minute appointment.

:34:09.:34:10.

Especially to somebody who feels like a complete stranger. I ended up

:34:11.:34:19.

returning to just print -- different GPs. But time and time again, I was

:34:20.:34:28.

refused help. It was seven visits before I eventually got the help

:34:29.:34:32.

that I needed. Seven times H retold the story. Seven times I was not

:34:33.:34:41.

sick enough. And I had to w`lk out of the soldiery, feeling crtshed

:34:42.:34:52.

under moralise. -- surgery. This young person, just 14. The stories

:34:53.:35:00.

from plundering the country, of substandard meetings with GPs, this

:35:01.:35:07.

report highlights the many `rea where improvements have to be made

:35:08.:35:12.

at the medical profession and Hill services. I would welcome that

:35:13.:35:17.

debate from the Minister. Btt we need not one single area th`t needs

:35:18.:35:23.

improvement, we need to improve the overall state of the servicds, for

:35:24.:35:26.

those suffering with mental health issues. We must also look at the

:35:27.:35:31.

education system and what role that has got to play in improving young

:35:32.:35:39.

people's mental health. The report thoroughly covers the educational

:35:40.:35:42.

curriculum, and suggest improvements to the personal, social and economic

:35:43.:35:48.

education. That would provide the most effective environment for

:35:49.:35:55.

mental-health education. Thdse have been broadly endorsed. One of the

:35:56.:35:58.

issues that has been raised time and time again by the youth Parliament,

:35:59.:36:02.

the need for the curriculum for life. To meet needs of young people,

:36:03.:36:10.

setting them up to succeed `nd not fail. This issue is so fund`mental

:36:11.:36:15.

to young people that had received the most votes in the Make xour

:36:16.:36:23.

Ballot. In the local authorhty area of Neath, around 2300 young people

:36:24.:36:33.

took part in this year's ballot I look forward to working with Neath

:36:34.:36:43.

youth members this year. Gohng back to the report, the findings of the

:36:44.:36:45.

select committee make it cldarer that the need for an all in

:36:46.:36:51.

composite approach to improving mental health and well-being is

:36:52.:36:54.

needed. The Department for Dducation has introduced character buhlding

:36:55.:37:00.

and resilience programmes, the report notes this is not thd best

:37:01.:37:06.

method of improving the well-being of young people, and instead

:37:07.:37:09.

proposes more training for teachers and academic staff. When taking

:37:10.:37:15.

evidence, the report specifhcally mentions that teachers feel that

:37:16.:37:21.

they, I quote, need more regular training about promoting positive

:37:22.:37:27.

mental health. The recommendation from the committee is that `s part

:37:28.:37:33.

of the content, for the initial teacher training, it should be

:37:34.:37:39.

mandated training for teachdrs for John people's mental health, with a

:37:40.:37:45.

focus on how to respond to ` young person who asks about mental health.

:37:46.:37:52.

How to spot problems and whdre to refer young people. The comlittee

:37:53.:37:58.

goes on to recommend the inclusion of a trained counsellor at `ll

:37:59.:38:02.

schools, and schools should make counselling services are av`ilable

:38:03.:38:06.

to all secondary school puphls. These recommendations that H am sure

:38:07.:38:10.

every member of the house is going to agree with. Today's debate has

:38:11.:38:14.

highlighted the vitally important work done by the youth Parlhament,

:38:15.:38:20.

the British youth Council and the select committee. All of thdm, I

:38:21.:38:24.

have commended in assisting young people to have voices heard.

:38:25.:38:30.

Recently, we have had multiple reports and initiatives, thd

:38:31.:38:32.

improvement or Hill services for young people, looking to get parity

:38:33.:38:43.

and esteem. But until that hs achieved, funding for young people's

:38:44.:38:51.

care should be equal to adutls. The campaign is going to go on. Young

:38:52.:38:56.

people are the future and it is our duty to ensure the success `nd will

:38:57.:39:01.

be in. My thanks to Matthew, great speech, and it is a pleasurd to work

:39:02.:39:09.

with you. Thank you Madam Ddputy Speaker. My apologies to thd house

:39:10.:39:14.

for missing the start of thhs debate, it started earlier than I

:39:15.:39:18.

anticipated, and I was sitthng on a bus at Millbank. Thank you Ladam

:39:19.:39:25.

Deputy Speaker for calling le to speak. Congratulations to mx right

:39:26.:39:30.

honourable friend for leading this debate, and for the backbench

:39:31.:39:35.

business committee for delivering this. I am speaking towards the end

:39:36.:39:41.

of the debate. I will try not to repeat the many excellent

:39:42.:39:43.

contributions that the right honourable member 's have already

:39:44.:39:52.

made. But like so many, I h`ve had parents contacting me in distress,

:39:53.:39:55.

about the lack of adequate services as children or increases. I have had

:39:56.:40:03.

one parent, so worried about her daughter, who is going to h`ve to

:40:04.:40:09.

spend yet another weekend, ht is not the first period of crisis that she

:40:10.:40:17.

has had, at the children's ward of the local hospital. No spechalist

:40:18.:40:22.

beds available. The children's ward is not a safe place for somdbody

:40:23.:40:26.

having a mental health crishs. It is not fair on the staff, and the

:40:27.:40:33.

children, to support her. She needed a specialist bed. But at London too

:40:34.:40:42.

few tier four beds. I had a novel distressing experience, a young man

:40:43.:40:46.

who needed to go to hospital urgently, but because of a

:40:47.:40:52.

disconnect between the police, Ambulance Services and of sdrvices,

:40:53.:41:00.

it took two attempts to draw him from his house, getting him to the

:41:01.:41:08.

safe place. It was added distress, worsening his already critical

:41:09.:41:14.

mental ill situation. We ard seeing some improvements locally, `nd to be

:41:15.:41:20.

fair, we have been promised added tier four beds, better joindd up

:41:21.:41:28.

thinking, but this is a small increase.

:41:29.:41:33.

The additional problem is the break in service when a child in crisis

:41:34.:41:41.

suffers further when they hht the 18th birthday, they lose ond set of

:41:42.:41:45.

services and the adult servhces may or may not pick up at the s`me place

:41:46.:41:50.

and this does not make it e`sy for the child, the family and those

:41:51.:41:54.

supporting her. I want to ghve credit to those who work in the

:41:55.:41:58.

public and voluntary sector who support and heal those young people.

:41:59.:42:03.

But whose job is being made difficult because of the difficult

:42:04.:42:08.

funding situation and lack of adequate joined up thinking. Like

:42:09.:42:15.

many members I want to thank the excellent work of the select

:42:16.:42:21.

committee, British youth Cotncil and many NYPDs across the country. I met

:42:22.:42:30.

one of these NYD look-mac and she told me about the history of how

:42:31.:42:36.

young people across the country voted mental health should be the

:42:37.:42:43.

top agenda issue for discussion among NYP and the top issue they

:42:44.:42:47.

wanted to bring to us. She said to me the future of tomorrow c`nnot

:42:48.:42:51.

possibly get to the stage where young people can rise to thdir full

:42:52.:42:55.

potential when they are being failed by this current generation, she

:42:56.:42:58.

means others. They lacked the support they need for mental health,

:42:59.:43:04.

every time we say we need more support, mental health servhces are

:43:05.:43:10.

simply get cut. One of the UK youth Parliamdnt's

:43:11.:43:16.

campaigns, the only come along once a year and we have to treat young

:43:17.:43:23.

people's demands seriously. She is contribute holding sessions and her

:43:24.:43:27.

school to promote more educ`tion in this matter and credits to her.

:43:28.:43:34.

Earlier this year in July I met a group of school heads, prim`ry and

:43:35.:43:38.

secondary school heads and dxpected them to raise with me the topics of

:43:39.:43:42.

funding, recruitment, retention and testing and they did so. Wh`t I did

:43:43.:43:47.

not expect is, equally important was the concern that the raised about

:43:48.:43:53.

children's mental health. The state of the services, the increasing

:43:54.:43:58.

incidence of mental health problems, self harming, destructive bdhaviour

:43:59.:44:04.

and so on. They're feeling of inadequacy and been able to support

:44:05.:44:08.

those children because they cannot get those children through `

:44:09.:44:11.

good-quality education systdm and get them ready for the world of work

:44:12.:44:17.

and higher education, they cannot do that if they are not able to support

:44:18.:44:20.

those people with better mental health support. What they s`id was

:44:21.:44:27.

the capacity is overstretchdd, they are long waiting lists. Thex have

:44:28.:44:34.

real concerns about inadequ`te early intervention, they said there are

:44:35.:44:38.

more children who are vulnerable and the reasons are many and varied

:44:39.:44:43.

mistreatment at home, more families in chaotic circumstances, more

:44:44.:44:49.

families living in uncertain and insecure and poor quality housing.

:44:50.:44:53.

That combined with austeritx, particularly in terms of paxment of

:44:54.:44:58.

benefits, tax credits and so on most of our families are working,

:44:59.:45:03.

most parents are working, btt they have suffered as a result of the

:45:04.:45:10.

changes in benefits and tax credits system so many families cannot find

:45:11.:45:15.

enough money to pay the rent and put food on the table and this stress

:45:16.:45:22.

impacts on children. It could - it couldn't not impact on them. The

:45:23.:45:27.

head of Kingsley Academy, only in the school one year, she sahd she

:45:28.:45:31.

has already seen three of hdr children section. Children self

:45:32.:45:39.

harming and is not enough stpport and the social work team cannot cope

:45:40.:45:46.

either. We have solutions. Lost our schools, should either the xouth

:45:47.:45:50.

counselling service to deliver counselling or the employed in-house

:45:51.:45:54.

counsel was. Strand on the dream runs a programme which combhnes a

:45:55.:46:02.

therapy and art and is very successful but that is no ftnding

:46:03.:46:06.

left to allow it to continud indefinitely. So their conclusion

:46:07.:46:14.

was not enough is being dond in terms of support. We have an

:46:15.:46:17.

excellent youth counselling service that serves the Borough of Hounslow

:46:18.:46:23.

and has done for many years. Their councillors believe stronglx

:46:24.:46:26.

Government cuts have led to the increased need for counsellhng.

:46:27.:46:33.

There is less money for entry level, early entry criteria such as Tier

:46:34.:46:42.

one and whether those pull outs that means other members, as othdr

:46:43.:46:45.

members said, young people `re entering the service in crisis

:46:46.:46:51.

living Tier three and four services which are very expensive. Hounslow

:46:52.:46:56.

youth Council, like many, Izzy Tier one service, it is there to provide

:46:57.:47:01.

initial counselling -- is a pure one service. It is not a therapdutic

:47:02.:47:06.

service and is not funded to be and does not have those professhonal

:47:07.:47:10.

advisers. Often it is the only place young people can come to because the

:47:11.:47:16.

higher-level services will not see that young person for many weeks and

:47:17.:47:21.

often months. What they're saying is Nvidha

:47:22.:47:25.

services skilled and experidnced staff are replaced with less skilled

:47:26.:47:32.

and experienced staff -- skhlled and experienced staff. There is no sign

:47:33.:47:36.

of the increase in young people requiring counselling slowing so

:47:37.:47:40.

further cuts could worsen the situation. How youth counselling is

:47:41.:47:44.

a voluntary service organis`tion, funded mainly from local government

:47:45.:47:49.

and the NHS, who themselves are cutting back on supporting the

:47:50.:47:54.

voluntary sector as their own funding is cut back. Yet thd youth

:47:55.:47:56.

counselling service say thex are likely to see upward of 3000 young

:47:57.:48:01.

people per year and it is going to get their ability to grow as an

:48:02.:48:06.

organisation to meet that pressure is highly unlikely. That me`ns that

:48:07.:48:10.

the waiting lists will get longer, that means longer for young people

:48:11.:48:13.

who are referred by schools or patents or themselves, they have to

:48:14.:48:19.

wait longer. Our experience and our Buddha

:48:20.:48:23.

reflects what others have ddscribed in this debate. -- in our borough.

:48:24.:48:29.

Ever greater pressures from social media, family, pulsing, and identity

:48:30.:48:36.

questions. Services are alrdady stretched with some physical

:48:37.:48:40.

uncertain futures as cuts are made and many services are closing. A

:48:41.:48:46.

lack of early intervention, different services having dhfferent

:48:47.:48:50.

priorities, reports of decommissioning early intervention

:48:51.:48:53.

services as a result of redtction in social services and spending. We

:48:54.:48:58.

could do things differently, it is not just funding although that is,

:48:59.:49:05.

we cannot not discuss funding but there are other issues and ly

:49:06.:49:11.

friends back from North Durham made a suggestion -based experiences of

:49:12.:49:14.

the Armed Forces covenant sdt up under the Labour Government, it was

:49:15.:49:20.

led Cabinet level. The conclusions and programme of the Armed Forces

:49:21.:49:26.

covenant was filtered through a range of services down to local

:49:27.:49:30.

government. I was accountable and Hounslow and we adopted this

:49:31.:49:34.

covenant and that meant it filtered through into several of our services

:49:35.:49:40.

and priorities. Could we not do the same for children's mental health?

:49:41.:49:45.

In conclusion, as many membdrs have said we need to do more as ` country

:49:46.:49:50.

and the Government must lead. We must do better, we must listen to

:49:51.:49:54.

young people, we must delivdr joined up services, we must deliver them

:49:55.:49:59.

early and by doing that we save money, but more importantly, we save

:50:00.:50:02.

our young people's future. Thank you.

:50:03.:50:09.

It is a privilege to take p`rt in the debate today. May start by

:50:10.:50:13.

thanking the business committee for selecting it an extent I pr`ise for

:50:14.:50:16.

the select committee for thhs excellent report on young pdople's

:50:17.:50:21.

mental health. He genuinely superb summary of the situation backed up

:50:22.:50:25.

with sensible recommendations. The welcome contribution. The ddtails of

:50:26.:50:32.

which have already been outlined by the member and may I say I `gree

:50:33.:50:35.

wholeheartedly this is a debate about resources and the fralework

:50:36.:50:39.

for their use. I also agree the current situation is not acceptable.

:50:40.:50:44.

The man for services are indeed increasing. I thank the member for a

:50:45.:50:49.

clear explanation of the case and some powerful statistics. The

:50:50.:50:54.

importance of this issue to young people is illustrated by it

:50:55.:50:58.

repeatedly chosen as a priority campaign of the youth Parli`ment and

:50:59.:51:01.

voted for in the British yotth Council. It has also been stbject of

:51:02.:51:05.

research in the Scottish yotth Parliament titled Our Gener`tion's

:51:06.:51:13.

Epidemic. They have clearly and intelligently and repeatedlx told us

:51:14.:51:17.

and as politicians it is incumbent upon us to address the concdrns

:51:18.:51:23.

highlighted and facts mentioned already today by several melbers

:51:24.:51:32.

that more than half of ment`l health, mental ill-health, starts

:51:33.:51:37.

before the age of 14 illustrates the seriousness of the issue. I am

:51:38.:51:41.

grateful to the member for Hyde Park for illustrating the risk of the

:51:42.:51:45.

issue go unnoticed and undi`gnosed and highlighting the generational

:51:46.:51:50.

gap technology has developed and the issue of cyber bullying. I `m sure I

:51:51.:51:54.

am not alone in this chamber in being clad, youthful teenagd years

:51:55.:52:00.

are not preserved for posterity on the internet. As well as

:52:01.:52:03.

highlighting an important issue the report also shows how important it

:52:04.:52:07.

is young people are engaged in our democratic debate. In Scotl`nd we

:52:08.:52:13.

are already making good progress but this and 16 and 17-year-olds have

:52:14.:52:17.

had the right to vote in thd Scottish and 2016 Scottish

:52:18.:52:23.

elections. That is an issue that Ms revisited in another debate. Moving

:52:24.:52:27.

on, I would also endorsed the call made by the honourable membdr for

:52:28.:52:31.

East Worthing for an annual debate in Government time on the good work

:52:32.:52:38.

of the select committee. Thd issue of mental health is widesprdad and

:52:39.:52:41.

affect every part of the cotntry and for people from all parts of

:52:42.:52:45.

society, all ages, races and backgrounds are susceptible. The

:52:46.:52:51.

member for West Ham highlighted the disparity between mental and

:52:52.:52:54.

physical health problems and emphasise the skill of the problem.

:52:55.:52:58.

We have heard many good exalples from across the house on how young

:52:59.:53:03.

people have been affected and this issue is one were much more needs to

:53:04.:53:08.

be done. All of us will be `ware of local examples and groups working to

:53:09.:53:14.

address these issues. One stch in my area is the Falkirk district from

:53:15.:53:20.

mental health. Subject of elotion enabled by the member for F`lkirk.

:53:21.:53:26.

Amongst the support the grotp offers is the befriending service, helping

:53:27.:53:33.

and a solution for young people mental health issues. They `lso

:53:34.:53:37.

operate a drop in servers, counsel and support groups and other

:53:38.:53:41.

services. It is not just spdcialist mental health groups tackling this,

:53:42.:53:46.

for example, the open door project, providing supported accommodation

:53:47.:53:49.

for young people new West Lothian area carry out the risk assdssment

:53:50.:53:53.

of every young person who approaches them for help and if followhng an

:53:54.:53:56.

assessment they feel that is an issue they will refer them to moving

:53:57.:54:01.

into health, he sang tragic nurse group from the help of homelessness

:54:02.:54:06.

team. -- it mental health ntrse group. The project believes the

:54:07.:54:14.

number of people presenting with mental health issues is increasing.

:54:15.:54:18.

This is a theme highlighted by several members today. Another

:54:19.:54:26.

example is the chill absorbdd, in basket, and healthy living centre, a

:54:27.:54:34.

partnership between children first, and NHS Lothian. It provides a drop

:54:35.:54:39.

in service job people can use in the own time to get information,

:54:40.:54:43.

counselling and advice or if they prefer they can make an appointment

:54:44.:54:46.

with an nurse counsellor to talk about sensitive matters. I could go

:54:47.:54:53.

on how when think many other examples but I think everyone gets

:54:54.:54:56.

the picture. It is not just our young people telling us this is an

:54:57.:55:00.

epidemic, the evidence of stpport groups and the impact of other

:55:01.:55:04.

organisations locally demonstrate best and highlight the need for

:55:05.:55:09.

action. In Scotland the isstes of health and education are devolved to

:55:10.:55:13.

the Scottish Parliament and many of the devolved issues were covered to

:55:14.:55:16.

sink goodbye-mac honourable friend for East Kilbride. -- coverdd by my

:55:17.:55:24.

friend for East Kilbride. I am grateful for her opinions in the

:55:25.:55:28.

debate. Mental health is a priority for the Scottish Government as

:55:29.:55:32.

demonstrated by the fact Scotland to first dedicated mental health

:55:33.:55:37.

Minister in the UK. While across England funding has been reduced for

:55:38.:55:41.

young people's mental health services the SNP have doubldd the

:55:42.:55:47.

number of Child and adolescdnt mental health service psychologist

:55:48.:55:52.

as part of an additional 150 million to improve mental health services.

:55:53.:55:56.

The Scottish Government welcomed the Scottish youth Parliament rdsearch

:55:57.:56:01.

what I alluded to earlier and that research was undertaken as part of

:56:02.:56:08.

their campaign on mental he`lth The Minister for mental health let the

:56:09.:56:11.

Scottish youth Parliament in September and has taken notd of the

:56:12.:56:15.

recommendations specificallx for the Scottish Government and these will

:56:16.:56:18.

be considered as part of thd engagement on the new ten ydar

:56:19.:56:22.

mental health strategy for Scotland. The SNP will continue to review

:56:23.:56:26.

legislation to ensure the interests of our children and the need to form

:56:27.:56:30.

and maintain relationships with key adult in their lives are at the

:56:31.:56:35.

heart of any new measures. The select committee report highlighted

:56:36.:56:43.

the importance of ending sthgma around mental health and thd also

:56:44.:56:46.

committed to playing our part in ending that stigma. Education

:56:47.:56:48.

Scotland is developing a national resource to support the devdlopment

:56:49.:56:50.

and practice of approaches for primary schools, a horse-dr`wn

:56:51.:56:55.

nurturing approach can improve connectedness and the development of

:56:56.:57:03.

emotional, all parts of improving mental health. It is from pdople

:57:04.:57:07.

with mental health issues stffer discrimination and stigma btt sadly

:57:08.:57:11.

too many still do. The Scottish Government also funds an inhtiative

:57:12.:57:17.

to help address this and thdy do in a valuable work. The truth hs each

:57:18.:57:21.

and every one of us has it within our power to do our bit to dnd the

:57:22.:57:28.

stigma. We have to be more understanding of people with mental

:57:29.:57:32.

health problems. It has been a pleasure to take part today in what

:57:33.:57:36.

has been a very well-informdd and largely consensual debate. Thank

:57:37.:57:37.

you. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. It

:57:38.:57:49.

is a pleasure to speak in this important debate, about young

:57:50.:57:53.

people's mental ill, and I want to thank the backbench business

:57:54.:57:58.

committee, for making time for the vote. And I do agree with the

:57:59.:58:03.

honourable members opposite, that it should have been debated before and

:58:04.:58:11.

it is important that we unddrline the importance of this report from

:58:12.:58:15.

the youth select committee. Can I congratulate my right honourable

:58:16.:58:18.

friend, Andy honourable member forces Cambridge, for the work and

:58:19.:58:26.

the way in which my right honourable friend opened the debate, t`lking

:58:27.:58:30.

about the need for early intervention. Talking about the need

:58:31.:58:35.

for beds. It must stop the situation, when seriously ill people

:58:36.:58:43.

are sent away from home. And she made clear that the state of the

:58:44.:58:46.

services as a national scandal and raised a number of points that we

:58:47.:58:54.

hope will be looked at, the recommendation for a ring fdncing,

:58:55.:59:00.

the co-production and the nded to improve mental-health education I

:59:01.:59:06.

will talk those issues. But she also referred to the notion in the YMCA

:59:07.:59:19.

report, stigma. Young peopld feeling trapped, in thousands of invisible

:59:20.:59:24.

prisons. Another raid honourable member talked about the leghtimacy

:59:25.:59:30.

of the young Parliament, relating that back to his experiences. My

:59:31.:59:38.

right honourable friend for the constituency of West Ham, h`s spoken

:59:39.:59:47.

and she made a powerful casd for the government funding pledges to be

:59:48.:59:54.

fulfilled. The right honour`ble member for East Worthing talked

:59:55.:00:00.

about the status of the report. I am glad to have his support, the Shadow

:00:01.:00:04.

Cabinet member for mental hdalth, me. And it is interesting that the

:00:05.:00:11.

Scottish National Party also have a dedicated Minister for ment`l

:00:12.:00:14.

health. I think we are moving to the position when that should bd

:00:15.:00:19.

supported. He also talked about the pressures of young people on social

:00:20.:00:24.

media, and it is interesting that we have a debate on that at Westminster

:00:25.:00:27.

on Wednesday, the impact of social media on young people and their

:00:28.:00:33.

mental health. We talked about the problems that parents and

:00:34.:00:39.

grandparents can have, the difficulty of navigating with GPs.

:00:40.:00:46.

Some important points, and `lso talking about the costs of local

:00:47.:00:49.

government. And he talked about the need, giving that difficultx, of the

:00:50.:01:02.

need for open services. The rate honourable member also talkdd about

:01:03.:01:05.

the problems of suicide for young men. It is important that wd have a

:01:06.:01:11.

focus on young women, but also it so badly affects young men. Thd right

:01:12.:01:21.

honourable member for the score great, and -- east Kilbride, and

:01:22.:01:31.

Lesmahagow... Talked about `ccess to mental health specialist. And

:01:32.:01:37.

training. Training for staff at school, the need for specialist

:01:38.:01:43.

training, that has been a theme She talked about modernising approaches,

:01:44.:01:49.

and we have heard about the importance IT. Of and also talking

:01:50.:01:55.

about online billion. The rhght honourable member for Bexhill, he's

:01:56.:02:02.

back, coming from a bill colmittee to speak. She regards this `s

:02:03.:02:06.

important. Clearly committed on this issue. It was his first subject for

:02:07.:02:14.

Prime Minister's Questions. The need for early intervention. And my right

:02:15.:02:21.

honourable friend for Ilford, I did not know that he was an elected

:02:22.:02:25.

member of the youth Council, but I thanked him for his support of the

:02:26.:02:30.

youth Parliament. It is important to listen to young people's concerns.

:02:31.:02:37.

And of course, they have cotrageous discussion. It is good that many

:02:38.:02:42.

groups of young people can discuss mental health. Hope for the future.

:02:43.:02:45.

He also talked about the exceptionally high levels of mental

:02:46.:02:55.

health levels, for LGBT people. And sadly, about the bad

:02:56.:03:09.

standards of care at a cert`in unit, taking a damaging report from the

:03:10.:03:13.

CQC to rectify. And my right honourable friend, the membdr for

:03:14.:03:24.

Neath, leave this speech from Matthew, talking about the

:03:25.:03:27.

difficulty of a young person visiting a GP seven times bdfore

:03:28.:03:32.

getting the proper support. She talked about training for tdachers,

:03:33.:03:37.

and having trained counsellors at every school. And we also t`lked

:03:38.:03:43.

about hospital wards not behng a safe place for young people with

:03:44.:03:49.

mental health problems. And in that constituency, even a head tdacher

:03:50.:03:51.

reporting having children sdction from school, very sobering thought.

:03:52.:03:58.

And as I have said, the Scottish National Party spokesperson told

:03:59.:04:05.

about many groups. It is a sign of the difficulties that we have got,

:04:06.:04:10.

with a nHS that we have got the need for these local groups. Before I

:04:11.:04:16.

move on to say anything elsd, I want to take the opportunity to pay

:04:17.:04:25.

tribute to my predecessor, the right honourable friend from Liverpool,

:04:26.:04:29.

who has campaigned tirelessly and raise the profile of many issues.

:04:30.:04:36.

I'm going to join other members congratulating the youth select

:04:37.:04:39.

committee on the report. Thd Secretary of State recently admitted

:04:40.:04:46.

for failings, in children and mental health services, he said I think we

:04:47.:04:48.

are letting down too many f`milies and not intervening early and often

:04:49.:04:53.

we have curable conditions that we can do something about. But if you

:04:54.:05:00.

leave it until the 15, 16, ht is too late. And people walking in mental

:05:01.:05:05.

health services now the truth of what the Secretary of State has

:05:06.:05:10.

said. We know that on average one in four people experience ment`l health

:05:11.:05:17.

problems, starting before the age of 15, and 75% starting before the age

:05:18.:05:22.

of 18. Just 8% of the mental health budget is spent on children. Council

:05:23.:05:30.

budgets, just representing 0%. Members have referred to th`t as the

:05:31.:05:36.

Cinderella of the Cinderell` service. I think that is a puestion

:05:37.:05:40.

to the Minister. Does she agree that the percent is too small portion to

:05:41.:05:46.

be spent on mental health, `nd does she agree that more has to be done

:05:47.:05:51.

to intervene earlier. Clearly, we are in the situation when ddmand

:05:52.:05:57.

outstrips supply. Demand on mental health services has been growing,

:05:58.:06:02.

but government action has not been meeting that demand. It is clear

:06:03.:06:07.

that it is not reaching the front line. As my right honourabld friend

:06:08.:06:12.

for Durham set, essential stpport services have also been lost as a

:06:13.:06:15.

direct consequence of government cuts the local authority budgets.

:06:16.:06:30.

?538 million, and a 53% cut, 62 million youth services. That is

:06:31.:06:36.

between 2010 at 2015. Clearly, many young people are not receivhng the

:06:37.:06:39.

help that they need until rdaching crisis point. But that is p`rt of

:06:40.:06:46.

the problem. And by not addressing these critical issues, the

:06:47.:06:50.

government is letting down vulnerable young people. Sarah

:06:51.:06:55.

Brennan, The Chief Executivd of Young Minds, has said that they have

:06:56.:07:01.

been woefully underinvested in four years. Even if the new monex is

:07:02.:07:10.

going to be spent where in tended, the chief of NHS England has said it

:07:11.:07:15.

is only going to be enough to reach a third of those who need it. The

:07:16.:07:22.

threshold for accessing services is higher, children are more lhkely to

:07:23.:07:27.

self harm or become suicidal, be violent and aggressive. That can

:07:28.:07:34.

ruin prospects. Delays can `lso have a disastrous effect, with hdarings

:07:35.:07:39.

having to leave jobs. A report has undermined that, by telling us that

:07:40.:07:45.

the number of young people going to accident and emergency becatse of

:07:46.:07:48.

psychiatry condition doubled between 2010 and 15. And as we have heard,

:07:49.:07:56.

the number of children self harming has also risen dramatically over the

:07:57.:08:04.

last ten years, with the upward trend sadly more evident with girls.

:08:05.:08:17.

28% of children and young pdople, referral or not allocated a service.

:08:18.:08:21.

And members have referred to that. And a report by the children's

:08:22.:08:26.

commission has found that 78% of restrictions and thresholds for

:08:27.:08:29.

young people, had been accessing services. We have heard abott

:08:30.:08:38.

increasing number of referr`ls, high thresholds and long waiting times.

:08:39.:08:42.

What all that means is that many children and young people are not

:08:43.:08:45.

receiving help. Going back to the Secretary of State, referring to the

:08:46.:08:51.

quality of care, he said I think this is possibly the biggest single

:08:52.:08:58.

area of provision for the NHS. Does the Minister recognised that the

:08:59.:09:02.

statistics we have heard in the sure that mental health services, the

:09:03.:09:08.

demand has outstripped supply. What is the plan to address thosd issues?

:09:09.:09:15.

I want to talk about region`l variation. I think it is an

:09:16.:09:19.

important aspect of the isstes that we have been seeing. The chhldren's

:09:20.:09:23.

commission report also highlighted regional theory oceans and

:09:24.:09:27.

treatment, suggesting it is effectively a postcode lottdry. In

:09:28.:09:31.

England, on the data gatherdd, the average waiting time ranged from 14

:09:32.:09:38.

days in the north-west, to 200 days in the West Midlands. Does the

:09:39.:09:44.

Minister agree that this level of the region is totally unaccdptable,

:09:45.:09:46.

and can she highlight what linisters of doing to get children to access

:09:47.:09:54.

swift care? A recent report on the state of mental health by the Public

:09:55.:09:58.

Accounts Committee warned that the access matters, many people can make

:09:59.:10:03.

a full recovery if they recdive the appropriate treatment, but ` high

:10:04.:10:05.

proportion of people with mdntal health conditions do not have the

:10:06.:10:13.

axis that they need. I want to think for a moment on the state of the

:10:14.:10:16.

services because that is an important aspect. It is a l`ck of

:10:17.:10:23.

crisis service, the lack of accountability for the

:10:24.:10:25.

transformation plans, and a lack of co-production with parents, carers.

:10:26.:10:33.

One person asked, who cares for carers? Not the mental health

:10:34.:10:38.

service. That view has been borne out by nurses, in one survex, 7 %

:10:39.:10:49.

said that the services were inadequate, highly inadequate. And

:10:50.:10:53.

it was put to the Minister, having those people who work in those

:10:54.:10:57.

services, with leading to them as highly inadequate as worrying. 3%

:10:58.:11:04.

of those said that the problems were too few nurses, 48% said too few

:11:05.:11:13.

doctors. The Secretary of State pledged last December that CCGs

:11:14.:11:20.

would increase funding, but as we have heard, the reality is that it

:11:21.:11:24.

is not been delivered, and that is clear in the provision of sdrvices

:11:25.:11:27.

as I have just quoted from the softly. A number of my great

:11:28.:11:33.

honourable friend have menthoned, the freedom of information requests

:11:34.:11:38.

made by my great honourable friend for Liverpool, in those responses

:11:39.:11:45.

that she got back, 73 out of 12 CCGs, more than half responded,

:11:46.:11:49.

admitted that they planned to cut the and people spend on mental

:11:50.:11:52.

health. That actually underlines the fact that the funding issue is

:11:53.:11:55.

getting more. Does the Minister agree the

:11:56.:12:06.

secretary of state has brokdn his promise and many CCGs are not

:12:07.:12:10.

increasing mental health funding? As we have heard the is repeatddly a

:12:11.:12:17.

broken pledge to achieve parity of esteem. Despite promises made by

:12:18.:12:21.

ministers to achieve this bdtween mental and physical health that is

:12:22.:12:24.

still a great difference in the treatment of families with children

:12:25.:12:27.

with physical rather than mdntal health needs and the number of

:12:28.:12:32.

members referred to this. M`ny physical health hospitals now have

:12:33.:12:36.

family rooms parents can st`y in to support a child and they can even in

:12:37.:12:41.

some cases get help with tr`nsport costs. The families of children in

:12:42.:12:45.

mental health units can feel isolated. There is no provision for

:12:46.:12:51.

families to stay, no support for transport costs and they can be

:12:52.:12:56.

prohibitive. Children can bd sent home with no transition plan. The

:12:57.:13:02.

Government is failing to achieve parity of esteem and we had four

:13:03.:13:08.

questions on mental health `t Prime Minister questions yesterdax and

:13:09.:13:11.

that should be a indication of the level of concern among membdrs. One

:13:12.:13:18.

member made mental health hhs first question yesterday but as the member

:13:19.:13:23.

for Ilford North said there was real disappointment at the questhon we

:13:24.:13:27.

got yesterday and the responses from the Prime Minister and hope we get

:13:28.:13:30.

better answers from the minhster today. There has been much said to

:13:31.:13:35.

be about education and the role of schools because the report by the

:13:36.:13:39.

education select committee on mental health and well-being of looked

:13:40.:13:42.

after children made a recomlendation that schools should have a role in

:13:43.:13:46.

teaching about mental health and well-being. That report said the

:13:47.:13:56.

interface between must be strengthened to ensure teachers are

:13:57.:13:58.

better equipped to identify, assess and support children. It has been

:13:59.:14:03.

clear in this debate there hs a view to schools and colleges shotld play

:14:04.:14:07.

a key role in the promotion of mental health and young people

:14:08.:14:12.

because more young people are experiencing serious psychological

:14:13.:14:15.

distress under the unpreceddnted level of social pressures which it

:14:16.:14:22.

is a credit to members here that is recognised, those unprecedented

:14:23.:14:24.

social pressures. We will not get time to recover it today, of course

:14:25.:14:30.

easy access to the internet poses new challenges for young people and

:14:31.:14:34.

cyber bullying is increasing with more than one in ten childrdn now

:14:35.:14:38.

saying they have experienced this which means young people cannot get

:14:39.:14:41.

away from building even when they close the door at home. A ntmber of

:14:42.:14:46.

members have stressed the role that schools have in ensuring thdse

:14:47.:14:50.

problems are spotted early `nd then addressed and counselling sdrvices

:14:51.:14:55.

are vitally important, as a Salford MP I am pleased Salford is one of

:14:56.:15:01.

the registered approved provider of councillors in schools and one has

:15:02.:15:04.

already been appointed to ddliver it to your pilot to train and support a

:15:05.:15:11.

cluster of schools in counsdlling. My member -- my right honourable

:15:12.:15:14.

friend for North Durham raised this issue but there is funding hssues

:15:15.:15:19.

and many schools cannot afford to pay trained counsellor. Cle`r

:15:20.:15:23.

guidance is needed on how to commission high-quality mental

:15:24.:15:26.

health support programmes in schools and tackle discrimination and

:15:27.:15:29.

stigmatisation. It would be helpful if the Minister could outline what

:15:30.:15:35.

plans the Government has to ensure education and social servicds work

:15:36.:15:38.

together to ensure an extra layer of support to spot and treat mdntal

:15:39.:15:42.

health issues and my honour`ble friend raised that in the ddbate.

:15:43.:15:49.

Clearly the best way to deal with the crisis like this is prevent it

:15:50.:15:53.

from happening in the first place or access to the right information and

:15:54.:15:56.

providing better support in Child and adolescent is critical `nd that

:15:57.:16:00.

can help reduce incidents of young people developing mental he`lth

:16:01.:16:05.

problems. Overall, from this debate actions speak louder than words If

:16:06.:16:09.

ministers are serious about tackling this issue they must follow through

:16:10.:16:13.

on the funding pledges. Govdrnment cuts to local authority budgets have

:16:14.:16:20.

meant many of the local services providing early intervention have

:16:21.:16:23.

scaled back services close altogether. I talk about cuts to

:16:24.:16:29.

children's centres, social workers, educational psychologists and mental

:16:30.:16:33.

health services in schools. The situation is there has been a

:16:34.:16:36.

reduction in care and support for underage teens. We need urgdnt

:16:37.:16:40.

action and the Minister has been urged by members on her own side as

:16:41.:16:45.

well as the side to believe that pressure on overstretched council

:16:46.:16:48.

services but we also need prevention and early intervention strategies to

:16:49.:16:53.

be developed. Crucially, thd right help and support must be av`ilable

:16:54.:16:57.

for vulnerable children when they need it. Not 200 days later. I look

:16:58.:17:02.

forward to the Minister and in the questions and those of my honourable

:17:03.:17:09.

friend. And telling us what action is to be taken to improve provision

:17:10.:17:17.

in this vital area. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker and I

:17:18.:17:22.

would like to thank the member for Village and West Norwood and the

:17:23.:17:26.

member for South Cambridgeshire for initiating this debate on the youth

:17:27.:17:29.

Parliament select committee report on young people's mental he`lth I

:17:30.:17:34.

want to add my voice to those from across the house and paying tribute

:17:35.:17:38.

to the youth select committde for the powerful report. It is `n

:17:39.:17:42.

important and timely intervdntion. As my friend, the member for East

:17:43.:17:51.

Worthing said, the chair person was very effective and the membdrs were

:17:52.:17:54.

dedicated focus and won the admiration of the House of Commons

:17:55.:17:58.

staff involved and they madd particular mention all that to me

:17:59.:18:04.

before this debate today. I would like to comment at the honotrable

:18:05.:18:10.

member for Ilford North demonstrated clearly see is an elected president

:18:11.:18:14.

of the B White see what his eloquent speech and he is right we should

:18:15.:18:19.

thank the young people who had the courage to speak up on their mental

:18:20.:18:23.

health experiences and opinhons and allowed us to refer to them today.

:18:24.:18:29.

-- president of the BYC. Thd value of those first-hand stories in this

:18:30.:18:32.

chamber cannot be overestim`ted and I would like to make partictlar

:18:33.:18:39.

point to thank the member Ltcy Boardman and Martha Banks Thomson

:18:40.:18:45.

and my own youth Parliament representatives. The export to me

:18:46.:18:49.

about the mental health campaign and a number of colleagues spokd about

:18:50.:18:53.

the impact of meeting their youth Parliament representatives `nd what

:18:54.:18:58.

has been said today is what is important now is to prove wd have

:18:59.:19:01.

not just heard them, we havd listened to them and are taking

:19:02.:19:06.

action on their words. That is why this has been such a moving and

:19:07.:19:13.

necessary debate today. Members have shared some personal experidnces of

:19:14.:19:17.

mental health and services `nd support they and their constituent

:19:18.:19:21.

have received and all of us will know the cases that haunt us. All of

:19:22.:19:28.

us know we need to do better. As colleagues have said, over half of

:19:29.:19:32.

all mental ill-health starts before the age of 14, 70 5% developed by a

:19:33.:19:39.

team. We know the distress lental health problems caused to

:19:40.:19:44.

individuals. -- 75% developdd by 18 years old. Children and young

:19:45.:19:49.

people's mental health is a priority for the Government. Not onlx have

:19:50.:19:53.

the Health Secretary made it his personal priority but so has the

:19:54.:19:56.

Prime Minister. It is time for a step change in the way we ddliver

:19:57.:20:01.

mental health services in this country and we are determindd to

:20:02.:20:05.

deliver that. We must not underestimate or undersell some of

:20:06.:20:08.

the progress already made bdcause this is thanks largely to the effort

:20:09.:20:19.

of dedicated NHS staff, stakeholders, voluntary services and

:20:20.:20:21.

others and we have heard sole success stories today and it is

:20:22.:20:23.

important we praise them for their hard work. We agree with thd

:20:24.:20:27.

recommendation of three that funding does need to increase, as m`ny

:20:28.:20:32.

colleagues said, and that is why we have increased investment in

:20:33.:20:37.

children's mental health with an additional 1.4 billion. While we do

:20:38.:20:44.

believe it is right local CCGs, led by clinicians, are best placed to

:20:45.:20:47.

prioritise spending to meet the needs of local populations, we have

:20:48.:20:52.

been clear that this money hs provided for mental health services

:20:53.:20:56.

and we are requiring CCGs to increase their spending year on

:20:57.:21:01.

year. I wonder if the Minister has

:21:02.:21:06.

considered the request from my own mental health providers that the

:21:07.:21:09.

Government considers ring fdncing the money for mental health saw it

:21:10.:21:15.

does get passed to the front line? I was attempting to reply to that

:21:16.:21:21.

but not being very clear. Wd have been listening to these reqtests and

:21:22.:21:24.

are looking closely at how effectively the money is getting to

:21:25.:21:28.

the front line but currentlx we do with local commissions are still

:21:29.:21:31.

best place for deciding how to target those services but wd have

:21:32.:21:36.

put in place a requirement for CCGs to increase spending on mental

:21:37.:21:45.

health year and we are also very clear STPs must reflect the NHS

:21:46.:21:49.

mandate which says we expect NHS England to strive to reduce the

:21:50.:21:54.

health gap between those with mental health problems, learning

:21:55.:21:56.

disabilities and autism and the population as a whole and this

:21:57.:22:00.

requires great strides in ilproving care.

:22:01.:22:05.

It is happening in your, but it is not happening elsewhere and I wonder

:22:06.:22:08.

how long the Minister will wait for it to happen elsewhere before they

:22:09.:22:16.

take action? One of the ways we're doing this is

:22:17.:22:23.

to driving accountability through transparency. The mental he`lth

:22:24.:22:28.

service has lagged behind the rest of the NHS in data and being able to

:22:29.:22:33.

track performance and that hs why the NHS will publish the mental

:22:34.:22:38.

health dashboard which will not only show performance but also show

:22:39.:22:42.

planned and actual spend on mental health and this is real progress.

:22:43.:22:48.

I think a couple of points hn addition to the ones just r`ise

:22:49.:22:55.

one, it is clear CCGs are ignoring the Government so it will nded more

:22:56.:23:01.

action than dashboards or the transparency points just made. I

:23:02.:23:05.

think it will take the secrdtary of state to go back to CCGs and make

:23:06.:23:09.

that very clear to them. Second as I said and others have said, there

:23:10.:23:14.

is the question of local authority funding. That is something like ?1

:23:15.:23:21.

billion out of different services for children. That is a factor as

:23:22.:23:24.

well so those two things ard both needed to be addressed.

:23:25.:23:28.

I do not think it is fair to say CCGs are ignoring the funding coming

:23:29.:23:32.

through, but I also think it will not be possible for CCGs to ignore

:23:33.:23:38.

what is going on when the transparency and accountability is

:23:39.:23:41.

in place with data sets with clever show not only the performance they

:23:42.:23:45.

have done to CCGs level but also the amount of funding they are given and

:23:46.:23:48.

the amount of funding their spending. This data will be much

:23:49.:23:52.

more detailed than it has bden before because we introduced a new

:23:53.:23:55.

mental health datasets which is the first ever provided -- provhder

:23:56.:24:02.

level dataset on children's mental health services and will provide

:24:03.:24:05.

data on outcomes, treatment length, source of referral and location of

:24:06.:24:09.

appointment. The health and social care `ct have

:24:10.:24:16.

won nothing in it I welcome which was the CCGs to commission service

:24:17.:24:22.

in the third sector. In this area is not the good work has been done in

:24:23.:24:27.

the third sector. The probldm is how the contract drawn up. -- a lot of

:24:28.:24:30.

the good work has been done in the third sector. They are often too

:24:31.:24:34.

complex or big for smaller organisations to bid for and I

:24:35.:24:37.

wonder if she can look at that? I am happy to look at it. We are clear

:24:38.:24:42.

there is a vital role for the voluntary sector to play in

:24:43.:24:49.

delivering some of the servhces and look at it. The programme h`ve

:24:50.:24:55.

spoken about in terms of delivering transparency and accountability will

:24:56.:24:59.

be central if local areas whll effectively design services that

:25:00.:25:02.

match the needs of the local populations but also if thex will be

:25:03.:25:05.

held to account for deliverhng but I am not going to be to the btsh. We

:25:06.:25:12.

recognise there are a compldx and severe set of challenges facing

:25:13.:25:16.

children and young people's mental health services today and this is an

:25:17.:25:20.

area which has been undervalued and underfunded for far too long. While

:25:21.:25:26.

I am happy to investigate ftnding formulas such as those proposed CCGs

:25:27.:25:32.

mentioned by the honourable member for Ilford North I agree with them

:25:33.:25:39.

that leadership and account`bility are also key to making the changes

:25:40.:25:43.

we need and that is why we `re committed to delivering real changes

:25:44.:25:47.

across the whole system, not just in terms of funding, and buildhng on

:25:48.:25:51.

the ambitious vision set out and I pay tribute to my predecessors and

:25:52.:25:55.

the work they done in bringhng those forward. As the honourable lady for

:25:56.:26:02.

Dulwich said, we do need to go further to drive these changes

:26:03.:26:07.

through so the changes that children and young people themselves have

:26:08.:26:10.

told us they want to see because children want to grow up to be

:26:11.:26:15.

confident and resilient and supported to fulfil their albitions

:26:16.:26:18.

and we are placing an emphasis on building in that resilience and

:26:19.:26:22.

promoting good mental health and well-being and prevention as the

:26:23.:26:25.

Shadow minister has said is so important and early intervention, as

:26:26.:26:30.

a number of the recommendathons repose and in particular looking at

:26:31.:26:33.

how we can do more upstream to prevent mental health probldms

:26:34.:26:34.

before they arise. I think funding has been kex. Could

:26:35.:26:51.

she answer my question, does she believe that their percent, anything

:26:52.:27:02.

like adequate? And if not, could ministers start to tell us where

:27:03.:27:09.

that should be? And if CCGs have been ignoring ministers, continuing

:27:10.:27:16.

to make pledges, sanctions `gainst CCGs? I think I have alreadx

:27:17.:27:21.

answered those questions. The government has made it clear that

:27:22.:27:25.

the funding does need to increase, that is why we have increasdd

:27:26.:27:32.

funding for these local are`s, increasing transparency to lake sure

:27:33.:27:36.

that this can be tracked locally. We are going to see how this works in

:27:37.:27:43.

the first instance. Children and young people want to know where they

:27:44.:27:49.

can find help easily if thex need it. I want to respond to all of the

:27:50.:27:54.

issues today, otherwise it hs not fair to the young people who wrote

:27:55.:27:58.

this report. And we also want to know that they can trust it. Young

:27:59.:28:03.

people are clearer that thex want a choice about getting advice and

:28:04.:28:07.

support from unwelcoming pl`ce, based on the best evidence of what

:28:08.:28:12.

works, and having the opportunity to shape services that they receive.

:28:13.:28:16.

Many colleagues have spoken about co-production. Future in Mind,

:28:17.:28:25.

committed to service -based evidence improvement, and increasing

:28:26.:28:27.

accountability across the sxstem. And a big part of that is producing

:28:28.:28:37.

these data sets, helping local areas hold these CCGs to us. But `s the

:28:38.:28:46.

right honourable friend for Neath told us so eloquently, and H think

:28:47.:28:50.

Matthew's speech has left an impression on all of us, thd

:28:51.:28:54.

story once, rather than repdated story once, rather than repdated

:28:55.:28:58.

lots of things to different people. We are committed to deliverhng and

:28:59.:29:05.

helping the services come together, communicating more effectivdly. As

:29:06.:29:08.

numerous other colleagues h`ve said, they do not want to have two week

:29:09.:29:16.

until we are really unwell, going to a higher threshold, asking for help

:29:17.:29:18.

should not be embarrassing or difficult. They should know where to

:29:19.:29:25.

go, and if they have to go to hospital, it should be with people

:29:26.:29:29.

of the Rh ne age, new to hole. We want to ensure that axis is groups

:29:30.:29:32.

of children and young peopld can easily access the correct stpport

:29:33.:29:39.

from the correct service at the correct location, close to home

:29:40.:29:49.

With the future enemy, -- Ftture in Mind, it has focused efforts, and

:29:50.:29:53.

has a clear trajectory for hmproving services. But it is only thd start

:29:54.:30:00.

of the journey. We have two maintain effort, focus, as well as local

:30:01.:30:07.

areas. Indeed Rio 2016, it was set out that the start of the tdn year

:30:08.:30:15.

journey to reform NHS care, and the right honourable member since

:30:16.:30:18.

similar problems that you c`n track across the adult services. But the

:30:19.:30:24.

report was clear that the NHS needs to be a more pro-active and

:30:25.:30:27.

preventative approach to reduce the long-term impact for people

:30:28.:30:30.

experiencing mental health problems and for families, reducing costs for

:30:31.:30:35.

the NHS and emergency services. It needs common sense. The fivd-year

:30:36.:30:43.

four view, has been underpinned by more funding and the NHS in the

:30:44.:30:51.

station plan sets out in detail when the money will become avail`ble It

:30:52.:30:54.

builds on the foundation of local investment in local health services,

:30:55.:31:01.

and we want to increase the baseline by the overall growth in

:31:02.:31:07.

allocations. Implementing the five-year forward view sets out

:31:08.:31:10.

objectives, which young people were received. I think it would be

:31:11.:31:13.

helpful if I receive what those will be, as they will make practhcal

:31:14.:31:19.

changes. First, significant expansion in high quality mdntal

:31:20.:31:24.

health cure, at least 70,000 additional children each ye`r, to

:31:25.:31:28.

receive evidence -based tre`tment. By 2020, 2021, evidence -based

:31:29.:31:35.

community eating disorders to be in place, ensuring that 95% of children

:31:36.:31:40.

receive treatment within ond week for urgent cases, and four weeks for

:31:41.:31:50.

routine cases. 2021, in pathent stays for children and young people,

:31:51.:31:54.

only taking place when clinhcally appropriate. As close to normal as

:31:55.:31:59.

possible, to avoid an appropriate placements. And inappropriate use of

:32:00.:32:07.

beds, at paediatric and adult wards will be phased out. And the move

:32:08.:32:13.

will be commissioned on a police basis by localities, so that they

:32:14.:32:18.

are integrated into the loc`l pathways. That is designed to

:32:19.:32:20.

address some of the concerns that have been raised. As a result, the

:32:21.:32:30.

use of these beds should have reductions as a possibility. These

:32:31.:32:40.

objectives are supported, these plans set out how the local areas

:32:41.:32:44.

are going to work together to improve services for childrdn and

:32:45.:32:47.

young people with mental he`lth problems across the pathway. The

:32:48.:32:53.

plans are the richest sourcd of information available, about the

:32:54.:32:55.

state of children and young people's mental health services. And NHS

:32:56.:33:02.

England has also had reviews, in response as part of an hour so as --

:33:03.:33:10.

analysis. They published thd children and young people's local

:33:11.:33:14.

transformation plans. It was a summary of the key themes. Ht is

:33:15.:33:19.

fair to say that the finding was a lot of theory Asian from local

:33:20.:33:25.

areas, in terms of local approaches, quality. We have heard about that

:33:26.:33:32.

today. But these LTPs, a st`rting point, living documents, not

:33:33.:33:37.

designed to go into a draw. Reviewed and refreshed at least once a year.

:33:38.:33:43.

Children, young people, famhlies and carers must be involved for exactly

:33:44.:33:47.

those reasons. To increase accountability, and effectiveness.

:33:48.:33:52.

And ensure that the plans actually work. But a number of key themes

:33:53.:33:59.

have merged today from the recommendations of the report, and

:34:00.:34:03.

the LTPs. The need to support the workforce. We recognise the need to

:34:04.:34:11.

address the capability and capacity needs of the workforce, frol GPs, to

:34:12.:34:16.

accident and emergency, to deliver on the ambition to transforl mental

:34:17.:34:21.

health services. In line with those eight specific recommendations, we

:34:22.:34:26.

will be working with health education England and others to

:34:27.:34:31.

develop a five-year mental health workforce strategy, publishhng in

:34:32.:34:36.

2017 but it is a serious response to a serious problem, designed to

:34:37.:34:40.

address a lot of the challenges raised today. As many members have

:34:41.:34:45.

said, access to services is also one of the priorities that we nded to

:34:46.:34:49.

address. We know that young people do not want to wait until wd are not

:34:50.:34:54.

feeling well to access servhces so we are tackling this in Augtst, NHS

:34:55.:35:04.

England published a report for children with eating disorddrs. And

:35:05.:35:09.

from January, compliance with the standard has been monitored by data

:35:10.:35:12.

collected through the mental services data set. It is behng held

:35:13.:35:17.

accountable and the objective is that 95% of young people will be

:35:18.:35:21.

seen within a clinically appropriate time frame by 2020. But this is just

:35:22.:35:31.

a first of the waiting standards. NICE and the National collaborating

:35:32.:35:36.

Centre have developed a new evidence -based pathway, for mental health.

:35:37.:35:41.

The project is going to report in March, recommending maximum waiting

:35:42.:35:46.

times. And an England weight quality assessment will then be used to

:35:47.:35:53.

establish a baseline and tr`jectory to achieve these. And as was also

:35:54.:36:00.

raised by the right honourable member for East Kilbride... We are

:36:01.:36:10.

also taking action, the particularly vulnerable groups of childrdn and

:36:11.:36:17.

young people, and in April @lison O'Sullivan was appointed as a

:36:18.:36:24.

co-chair to an excellent group, established to lead developlent It

:36:25.:36:32.

has historically been a blind spot. And the expert working group is

:36:33.:36:35.

about practical outcomes, not just what is needed but how it should be

:36:36.:36:42.

delivered. Without jargon. Concrete milestones. And we expect that to

:36:43.:36:47.

conclude by October. Ensuring access to services will not be in office

:36:48.:36:50.

young people do not feel confident and sees, seeking help. Children and

:36:51.:36:58.

young people should feel able to go for help, without stigma and

:36:59.:37:02.

discrimination. We have madd a lot of progress, tackling stigm` in

:37:03.:37:05.

recent years and I think thd fact that some young people have been

:37:06.:37:08.

willing to tell stories tod`y demonstrates that. Time to Change is

:37:09.:37:16.

a campaign that looks to tackle stigma for mental health, it was

:37:17.:37:20.

given funding, from the Dep`rtment of Hills, comic relief and the

:37:21.:37:25.

lottery fund, and be want to ensure that the initiative run by charities

:37:26.:37:31.

will work with schools, employers and local communities to do more and

:37:32.:37:35.

go farther. Reducing discrilination and raising awareness. Currdntly

:37:36.:37:40.

developing a targeting camp`ign for John people, working with experts

:37:41.:37:48.

and has Future in Mind has lade clear, co-production is a

:37:49.:37:51.

fundamental principle to sedk to develop these services. The

:37:52.:37:55.

anti-stigma campaigns are no exception. As many colleaguds have

:37:56.:38:00.

said, to make this work and see the progress that is so desperately

:38:01.:38:03.

needed we also have to work closely with colleagues across government.

:38:04.:38:08.

Particularly the Department for Education but not exclusively. We

:38:09.:38:13.

are determined to continue this collaboration, and we have been

:38:14.:38:15.

working closely together to make sure that the versions of Ftture in

:38:16.:38:22.

Mind become a reality, but `lso looking at what more can be done

:38:23.:38:26.

upstream to intervene early. As members have pointed out, to provide

:38:27.:38:31.

correct interventions as soon as the only did. And the recommend`tions of

:38:32.:38:37.

this report will be valuabld, including recommendations on

:38:38.:38:41.

attainment, teacher training and the whole school approach. We know that

:38:42.:38:50.

this is the beta slant, and the current process. And we are

:38:51.:38:56.

prioritising this, to make sure that young people get the support that

:38:57.:39:00.

they need. -- the weakest lhnk. A number of colleagues have r`ised the

:39:01.:39:04.

issues of online pressures `nd cyber-bullying. This is takdn

:39:05.:39:09.

extremely seriously by the government equality office, ?4.

:39:10.:39:13.

million of funding to tackld those in September. And it includds a

:39:14.:39:18.

number of measures, to underpin the fact that all schools are rdquired

:39:19.:39:22.

by law to have a behaviour policy, with measures to tackle bullying and

:39:23.:39:29.

clearly accountable by Ofstdd. But more needs to be done to help

:39:30.:39:34.

support parents, and that is what 500,000 has also been invested, on

:39:35.:39:40.

who to keep children safe, to support a national roll-out of

:39:41.:39:44.

information for parents through schools. Today's debate has been

:39:45.:39:52.

very important, not just in replying to the details of the report which

:39:53.:39:55.

was so important from the youths late committee but also to test the

:39:56.:40:01.

government's committee, comlitment. I am grateful to colleagues for the

:40:02.:40:06.

team taken today, to champion good practice and propose innovation I

:40:07.:40:10.

hope that in my response, the commitment to reform mental health

:40:11.:40:14.

services is beyond doubt. Btt I also hope it is clear that it is only

:40:15.:40:21.

through concerted political will, and a selfless determination of the

:40:22.:40:24.

mental health workers that we will have any hope of achieving the goals

:40:25.:40:32.

opened the country, giving services accessible when needed. I h`ve heard

:40:33.:40:37.

speech after speech, determhnation to get change and it gives le

:40:38.:40:42.

courage. Great reform requires long-term vision and we havd at the

:40:43.:40:53.

excellent report from the sdlect committee, but the speeches from

:40:54.:40:56.

colleagues. That is a form foundation for what is a totgh task

:40:57.:41:04.

ahead. Thank you Mr Deputy Speaker. I want to thank very much the ten

:41:05.:41:08.

backbench members and opposhtion front bench members for takhng the

:41:09.:41:13.

team to be in the house tod`y, to contribute to this debate. Ht has

:41:14.:41:17.

been an excellent debate, whth some powerful contributions that members

:41:18.:41:24.

have acknowledged, the scald of the crisis, representing constituents,

:41:25.:41:30.

effectively. And called for government to take a differdnt

:41:31.:41:34.

approach. We have discussed many statistics, and it paints a picture

:41:35.:41:38.

of a heartbreaking reality for young people and families across this

:41:39.:41:41.

country and many members have also highlighted the false econolies and

:41:42.:41:46.

the failure is to invest properly in young people's mental health in

:41:47.:41:51.

terms of additional costs to the Hill service, local authorities

:41:52.:41:53.

criminal justice system and human beings themselves.

:41:54.:41:58.

Many members paid tribute to the work on the British youth P`rliament

:41:59.:42:04.

and I would like to add my voice to those who said the work of the youth

:42:05.:42:08.

Parliament should be debated in Government time and we should

:42:09.:42:12.

continue to build the youth Parliament as the institution for

:42:13.:42:17.

the voice of young people and it is right it has that status. This has

:42:18.:42:20.

been a consensual debate on the whole and showed the house `t its

:42:21.:42:25.

best. I hope we have communhcated to the youth Parliament and thd select

:42:26.:42:30.

committee and young people `cross the country the seriousness with

:42:31.:42:34.

which we take this issue. At welcome very much the Minister's response

:42:35.:42:38.

and commitments she has madd to address this issue and deliver a

:42:39.:42:46.

change in mental health. It requires resources, and leadership and work

:42:47.:42:48.

across Government departments and she mentioned work with the

:42:49.:42:54.

Department for Education, I think work with the Department for

:42:55.:42:57.

Communities and Local Government is also very important. The Minister

:42:58.:43:02.

knows she also has responsibility for public health and to thd extent

:43:03.:43:05.

public health expenditure is so challenged and we have heard from

:43:06.:43:09.

members of the impacts thosd cuts are having on mental health as a

:43:10.:43:14.

consequence. I welcome the Minister's response, the response

:43:15.:43:17.

must be backed up by action and following through and delivdring on

:43:18.:43:21.

this commitment and hope all members across the house contributed the

:43:22.:43:25.

well join me in holding the Government to account for ddlivering

:43:26.:43:29.

the step change we need to protect our vulnerable young people and

:43:30.:43:33.

deliver for them a framework of support which can help them to be

:43:34.:43:37.

resilient, confident and he`lthy into the future as they grow into

:43:38.:43:42.

adulthood. Mr Deputy Speaker, I vote to move. As many as are of the

:43:43.:43:46.

opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".. The ayes have it. We now come

:43:47.:44:00.

to petition. This petition is of the reshdents of

:44:01.:44:07.

the UK. The players that thd borrower council should not approve

:44:08.:44:11.

the planning application to change the use of the hotel to a 32 bed

:44:12.:44:17.

house in multiple occupation. They are too many HMOs in Warsaw and the

:44:18.:44:27.

housing standards object to this and 194 individuals have signed a local

:44:28.:44:32.

petition on the same petition. The petition is therefore request a

:44:33.:44:36.

House of Commons to urge thd borough council to reject planning

:44:37.:44:39.

application 15 1266. Change of use of hotel. We now come

:44:40.:45:04.

to the next petition. I risd today to present a petition on behalf of

:45:05.:45:09.

the women against state pension inequality, better known as the wasp

:45:10.:45:16.

woman. Conditions are not the time to make it a long speech but I would

:45:17.:45:21.

like to pay tribute to the women who have contacted me during thhs

:45:22.:45:25.

campaign, they have been thd most decent and honourable and wdll

:45:26.:45:29.

mannered of a campaign as I have ever had the pleasure or not to come

:45:30.:45:32.

in contact with and they have been fabulous. For completeness, I will

:45:33.:45:38.

be out the petition. The petition declares as a result of the way in

:45:39.:45:44.

which the 1995 pension act hn 2 11 pension act were implemented woman

:45:45.:45:50.

born in the 1950s on or aftdr the 6th of April 1950 and a half and

:45:51.:45:54.

Philip Ball at the bottom of the increase in state pension age. For

:45:55.:45:57.

the more hundreds of thousands of women have significant changes on

:45:58.:46:03.

them with little or no personal notice. That implementation took

:46:04.:46:07.

place faster than promised, further this did not think to make

:46:08.:46:11.

alternative pension plans and further, the retirement plans have

:46:12.:46:15.

been shatters with devastathng consequences. The petition hs

:46:16.:46:19.

therefore request the House of Commons urges the Government to make

:46:20.:46:22.

fair and transitional arrangements for all woman born in the 1850s who

:46:23.:46:27.

have unfairly born at the bottom of the increased to the state pension

:46:28.:46:34.

age. It is rather long. The petition remains, etc.

:46:35.:46:45.

The implementation of the 1895 and 2011 pension acts. I beg to move

:46:46.:46:59.

this house who adjourned. The question is this house do know

:47:00.:47:03.

adjourned. I am delighted to have the

:47:04.:47:07.

opportunity on what is good to be disliked the length and adjournment

:47:08.:47:16.

debate to raise -- in adjournment debate on engagement of HS too

:47:17.:47:20.

limited. Can I stuck at work among the Minister to the front bdnch I

:47:21.:47:25.

believe it is the first timd he has had the oil corresponding to a

:47:26.:47:31.

debate about HS2. -- has bedn able to respond to a debate about HS . I

:47:32.:47:36.

hope he will be there for m`ny years to come to respond to futurd debates

:47:37.:47:40.

and I have great hopes for his response which I hope will be full

:47:41.:47:44.

and encouraging, both to my constituents and many others up and

:47:45.:47:52.

down the line of phase one of HS2. And I also thank Buckinghamshire

:47:53.:47:58.

County Council and my local parish council, particularly, for their

:47:59.:48:02.

input into this debate and `lso thank them for their persevdrance

:48:03.:48:08.

and work for greater mitigation in our area, particularly in

:48:09.:48:11.

Buckinghamshire but also I think that extends to the local

:48:12.:48:15.

authorities up and down the line who have worked tirelessly to try and

:48:16.:48:20.

mitigate the damage to their idiots. -- to the areas. I am one of the few

:48:21.:48:29.

MPs along the route of phasd one is the freedom of the backbenchers to

:48:30.:48:32.

be able to speak what it wotld be remiss of me not to like my

:48:33.:48:36.

colleagues who have inputted into this debate and particularlx would

:48:37.:48:40.

like to pay tribute to the researchers who do so much work on

:48:41.:48:45.

HS2, the burden has fallen disproportionately on our offices as

:48:46.:48:50.

MPs. Although she has absolttely no idea I would like to pay trhbute to

:48:51.:48:55.

Kate Fairhurst and my officd and has done tremendous work in coordinating

:48:56.:48:59.

and working on this issue for a long time now. I am particular

:49:00.:49:04.

disappointed still to be st`nding here and faced with the prospect of

:49:05.:49:11.

having to raise the quality and standard of HS2 communication and

:49:12.:49:15.

engagements which has made this project a very difficult ond. For my

:49:16.:49:22.

constituents particular. Thdy found it difficult to deal with in the

:49:23.:49:25.

past and I am afraid it still fills them with dread for the years to

:49:26.:49:31.

come. I would be unfair if H did not recognise some of the efforts of HS2

:49:32.:49:36.

has made recently to try and improve the level of their communic`tions

:49:37.:49:42.

and indeed they have done so in some instances. For example, the

:49:43.:49:49.

introduction of local engagdment, nevertheless, that very introduction

:49:50.:49:53.

of both local engagement managers is too little too late. You have two

:49:54.:50:00.

said it's against the background of the scars of communications in

:50:01.:50:05.

previous years. This has left a deep rooted history along phase one of

:50:06.:50:11.

engagement and it has resulted in, it is fair to say, amongst lany of

:50:12.:50:15.

our constituents up and down the line and an atmosphere of mhstrust

:50:16.:50:20.

and this great feeling therd is a complete lack of empathy from HS2

:50:21.:50:24.

and the people that work thdre. Any words of one of my constitudnts HS2

:50:25.:50:31.

limited's record is over and they have been talking more about

:50:32.:50:36.

engagement for months but for the local residents at the coal face,

:50:37.:50:41.

she says, it is hard to spot any change. -- the engagement h`s been

:50:42.:50:47.

poor. That is replicated in many of the constituencies of my affected

:50:48.:50:51.

colleagues. For an organisation with such an enormous operation `nd

:50:52.:50:57.

expanding workforce I believe the minister would agree this is

:50:58.:51:02.

unacceptable and requires addressing what senior personnel and indeed at

:51:03.:51:07.

ministerial level. The right member Mac for American was liable to be

:51:08.:51:16.

chairman of HS2 to convey hdr concern constituents were not

:51:17.:51:19.

adequately communicated with, head of the petition is to the house of

:51:20.:51:24.

Lords select committee and that cause undue frustration as she asked

:51:25.:51:28.

me to introduce that into mx speech because she is at the HS2 mdeting

:51:29.:51:34.

herself and unable to be here. I have been contacted over thd course

:51:35.:51:40.

of preparing for this debatd by a parish council report HS2's original

:51:41.:51:46.

attempt at engagement in thd form of focus groups and did little to allay

:51:47.:51:50.

the fears of the local population. It was felt they were entirdly

:51:51.:51:56.

controlled by HS2. They felt the community events were designed to

:51:57.:52:02.

promote the project, rather than to engage effectively with those that

:52:03.:52:07.

were most affected. The reported to me that HS2 personnel seems

:52:08.:52:11.

uninterested in tapping into the wealth of local knowledge existing

:52:12.:52:18.

in places such as via which could not help the work of HS2 hugely

:52:19.:52:24.

This is echoed also bite my right honourable friend, the membdr from

:52:25.:52:31.

many done, who feels more positive solutions could be generated if HS2

:52:32.:52:36.

listen and utilise local expertise. I do not know if the Ministdr has

:52:37.:52:40.

had a chance to study the ddsign panel for HS2. I have to tell you,

:52:41.:52:46.

it is full of the great and good, it has got some marvellous members

:52:47.:52:51.

there, really, the leading stars in a world of architecture and design,

:52:52.:52:57.

however, what is not as obvhous is that local input that we were

:52:58.:53:02.

promised, we were promised the design of this project would rely on

:53:03.:53:06.

local and to help get the bdst possible solutions in the areas as

:53:07.:53:14.

the line goes through them. Frankly, I have to say, the earlier community

:53:15.:53:21.

forums considered to have bden, I think the disasters. If you take my

:53:22.:53:27.

great parish council, they felt the engagement was part of a tick box

:53:28.:53:33.

exercise by HS2. They were tnable to provide the level of detail that the

:53:34.:53:37.

residents are one thing and constituents are one thing. -- that

:53:38.:53:44.

they are wanting. When residents tell me they think HS2 is going

:53:45.:53:49.

through the motions during community engagement that is not good enough.

:53:50.:53:57.

For them to come out of those engagements thinking it was only one

:53:58.:54:02.

way and it was a top-down dhscussion they were having reflects vdry badly

:54:03.:54:08.

on the quality and the contdnt and the thought and inputs that goes

:54:09.:54:14.

into those community engagelents. It was summed up by one of the parish

:54:15.:54:21.

councillors who said to me, the parishioners actually still have no

:54:22.:54:26.

real knowledge of what is h`ppening, in fact, most still believe that HS2

:54:27.:54:32.

will not happen. He felt th`t was not democratic and said, in fact, it

:54:33.:54:37.

is bordering on a dictatorship. I think it is sad that after six or

:54:38.:54:42.

seven years but is how residents feel after there has been an attempt

:54:43.:54:47.

at engagement with the commtnity. I also think that this poor engagement

:54:48.:54:55.

is going to continue to cause problems with the progress of HS2's

:54:56.:55:01.

work. As I understand it, there was a fracture at Fairford recently when

:55:02.:55:09.

HS2 Limited has admitted to fully communicate the residents they would

:55:10.:55:15.

be accessing for groundwork. -- they had omitted to fully communhcate.

:55:16.:55:20.

Households were only told after the work commenced. I am pleased to see

:55:21.:55:25.

the Leader of the House in his place and I know the right Honour`ble

:55:26.:55:28.

member for Pillsbury shares my concern is this kind of inchdent is

:55:29.:55:33.

a very worrying precedent and I would ask the Minister to

:55:34.:55:37.

familiarise himself with thdse interactions and to seek

:55:38.:55:43.

improvement, as a sort of work is going to multiply and incre`sed

:55:44.:55:46.

dramatically over coming months I do not want to see any repe`t of

:55:47.:55:51.

this type of incidents which actually comes from poor

:55:52.:56:00.

communications. The member for Hampstead and Kilburn becamd so

:56:01.:56:06.

exasperated with HS2's limited poor communication she delivered

:56:07.:56:08.

personally 1000 leaflets excluding learning to residents how the

:56:09.:56:12.

construction of the vent sh`ft would affect their homes. -- expl`ining to

:56:13.:56:17.

residents. It is a sad indictment when Members of Parliament have to

:56:18.:56:21.

do a job of a company which is in receipt of so much taxpayer money

:56:22.:56:27.

and a stretched MP has to c`rry out that sort of communications on

:56:28.:56:29.

behalf on the project. The construction is due to begin

:56:30.:56:44.

next year, and the newly appointed construction Minister will

:56:45.:56:46.

apparently be unable to intdrvene in individual cases. The construction

:56:47.:56:53.

Commissioner, the new one, hnterim, the newly appointed Commisshoner

:56:54.:56:57.

came to see me in my office. And I have to say, I have to question his

:56:58.:57:04.

independence, particularly when I am told that any correspondencd should

:57:05.:57:13.

be sent to the HS2 office. H said to him, and I think this is fahr, that

:57:14.:57:19.

my constituents deserve well in advance of to be informed works

:57:20.:57:26.

construction what is happenhng. At the moment, they have got to ring a

:57:27.:57:36.

help desk, no named person to deal with. And HS2, it can honestly be

:57:37.:57:43.

set, not to have engaged in a proactive approach to

:57:44.:57:49.

communications. But rely on a reactive strategy, putting the onus

:57:50.:58:01.

on the people affected by the plans. Two posts to this, I have asked the

:58:02.:58:06.

HS2 to attend the mitigation forum, this is a group that was fotnded by

:58:07.:58:12.

the red honourable member forces have insurance in 2012. And I hope

:58:13.:58:17.

he is going to come to the leeting in a few leaks and reassure us that

:58:18.:58:20.

communication on construction matters, not least with MPs, but

:58:21.:58:27.

constituents will be a priority I am asking the Minister the Cabinet

:58:28.:58:36.

and talk with -- if he can look and talk with other ministers and say

:58:37.:58:43.

that when he arrives at that meeting, he has got more to tell us

:58:44.:58:48.

that we can pass on to constituents. Than when he first came for the cup

:58:49.:58:58.

to see column last week. -- courtesy call. And another Commissioner

:58:59.:59:04.

always comes along. The reshdents Commissioner. We thought he was

:59:05.:59:11.

there to assist specificallx with communication. I have met whth her

:59:12.:59:16.

several times, thoroughly nhce woman and I am always encouraged by

:59:17.:59:20.

current tensions. However, the reality is that the impact hs very

:59:21.:59:31.

low. Firstly... The Minister should be a wheel that she does not appear

:59:32.:59:35.

to be independent, reports to the HS2 chairman, paid by HS2 Lhmited,

:59:36.:59:42.

and sits within those officds. We have only got to look at ovdrall

:59:43.:59:52.

administration, Ipsa does not set out the House of Commons. It seeks

:59:53.:00:03.

to regulate, what MPs do. Sdcondly, this Commissioner only makes

:00:04.:00:10.

recommendations to the chairman And now we are enforceable. -- hn no

:00:11.:00:21.

way. That lacks teeth. Thirdly. . She cannot intervene in indhvidual

:00:22.:00:26.

cases. That begs the question, who might constituents can't re`lly go

:00:27.:00:30.

to when these problems right. Of course, MPs. And as we have heard

:00:31.:00:36.

before, when we pass out le`flets about government projects, LPs

:00:37.:00:44.

offices are hard pressed. And the bottom that falls upon them is

:00:45.:00:52.

tremendous. -- burden. Residents along the line do not have the

:00:53.:00:57.

confidence that it is a credible, independent figure. And scrttinising

:00:58.:01:03.

HS2 the Munich agents, it h`s been pretty ineffective. It is no

:01:04.:01:08.

reflection on her individually, it is the job description that has been

:01:09.:01:14.

given to her, and the appro`ch that HS2 has two this project, wd are

:01:15.:01:18.

doing it, whatever. We have the mandate, you are just getting in the

:01:19.:01:23.

way. That has been coming across the constituents. I think that those two

:01:24.:01:32.

commissioners, it is fair to say, that constituents relational all

:01:33.:01:40.

roads lead to HS2, both judge and jury in all circumstances. Hn March

:01:41.:01:44.

this year, I do not go with the ministers had the opportunity to be

:01:45.:01:51.

the select committee report, that examined HS2 communications

:01:52.:01:54.

following the damaging report on the communications. That was by the

:01:55.:02:00.

Parliamentary ombudsman. Thd ombudsman determined that HS2's

:02:01.:02:05.

actions towards a community in Staffordshire had constitutdd mal

:02:06.:02:16.

administration. The committde concluded that the fundamental

:02:17.:02:18.

exchanges had not taken place and the continuing existence of the

:02:19.:02:27.

culture of death in south -, defensiveness, and been responsible

:02:28.:02:30.

for such a large highly controversial project is not

:02:31.:02:35.

acceptable. I am quoting directly. I think Mr Deputy Speaker you would

:02:36.:02:39.

agree it is not acceptable. The right honourable member for Tamworth

:02:40.:02:44.

has been working alongside Jonathan and a lean, -- Elaine, at the heart

:02:45.:02:53.

of the Bosman report, and dhsplay them receiving an apology from HS2,

:02:54.:02:59.

they have again contacted md and I have been in contact with the right

:03:00.:03:01.

honourable member for Tamworth. They have said that very little has

:03:02.:03:08.

changed in practice. HS2 lilited's treatment of residence is rdmaining

:03:09.:03:16.

poor. They simply do not prhoritise community engagement. In fact, no

:03:17.:03:25.

one to hold feet to the fird, and ensure that HS2 limited upholds the

:03:26.:03:31.

responsibility to residents. At some things, it views as though H am the

:03:32.:03:43.

only person holding their fdet to the fire on many things. Wedks ago,

:03:44.:03:48.

HS2 advertised for four newly qualified graduates, to work for six

:03:49.:03:55.

months, up to ?30,000, to rdad the story of HS2. I have been a

:03:56.:04:00.

minister. That seems to me like the record-keeping and the Department,

:04:01.:04:05.

HS2 limited, is so poor, thdy do not know how they have got to rdally

:04:06.:04:09.

have got to. Doing some far in sick and analysis, to date the policy

:04:10.:04:16.

out. -- dig. That is not good enough. And I think that reflects

:04:17.:04:20.

some of the chaos that I have seen from outside, as been evident in the

:04:21.:04:31.

organisation. Ultimately, those two commissioners, the construction

:04:32.:04:35.

Commissioner and the residents Commissioner have been put hn there

:04:36.:04:42.

to hold HS2 to account. And I do not think the way that those jobs have

:04:43.:04:49.

been drafted, the way the rdmit operates in one case, and the

:04:50.:04:56.

construction Commissioner operating and the residents Commissioner, I do

:04:57.:04:59.

not think it is good to set the bill. I know I have been banging on

:05:00.:05:07.

a little bit about HS2, but I have put some considerable thought into

:05:08.:05:12.

the amendments that we have tabled, to the bill in the House of Lords.

:05:13.:05:20.

Give way? She may be banging on and on but she has many admirers for the

:05:21.:05:24.

fact that she does so. It is such an important issue, or for my

:05:25.:05:30.

constituents and those for ly rate honourable members, I want to

:05:31.:05:39.

encourage her to continue to do so. I am grateful for that. As H have

:05:40.:05:47.

said before, you can never over flatter a politician. If yot so

:05:48.:05:51.

passionate about this. And hf I have a feeling to speak I am verx happy

:05:52.:05:55.

to reflect the feelings of others. And I know my right honourable

:05:56.:05:58.

friend has been working verx hard on trying to mitigate and I am sitting

:05:59.:06:07.

alongside two members for Staffordshire, and I am second to

:06:08.:06:15.

none for my admiration. I think that they feel as strongly as I do. I

:06:16.:06:20.

tabled some amendments for the introduction of an adjudicator, a

:06:21.:06:26.

regulatory, independent bodx that could be dealing with compl`ints

:06:27.:06:34.

swiftly and fairly. And a body that I believe people affected bx this

:06:35.:06:39.

would have confidence and bdlieve in. I think this is still b`dly

:06:40.:06:44.

needed. And I would watch the Minister to revisit these proposals.

:06:45.:06:57.

-- urge. And see if there is any way before the bill leaves, gets Royal

:06:58.:07:01.

Assent... Consider looking `gain at those amendments, accepting them,

:07:02.:07:06.

trying to create a body that would give confidence to those affected.

:07:07.:07:11.

Could I just very much endorse what my right honourable friend has said.

:07:12.:07:17.

And I am referring to my right honourable friend for Stafford, the

:07:18.:07:21.

fact is that we have a servhce problem in our part of

:07:22.:07:24.

Staffordshire. And what she is suggesting would help enormously, in

:07:25.:07:30.

terms of dealing with the complaints about the manner in which HS2 is

:07:31.:07:36.

operating. It is frequently causing enormous anxiety to my local people,

:07:37.:07:41.

and I am seeing them this wdekend on these very questions. I am deeply

:07:42.:07:45.

grateful to my right honour`ble friend. I am grateful to my right

:07:46.:07:53.

honourable friend, because we spent some time drafting these amdndments.

:07:54.:08:05.

And some serious legal brains brought to bear! I do hope the

:08:06.:08:11.

Minister, again, because he's new to the possession and not perh`ps as

:08:12.:08:15.

familiar to the project as the rest of us, I think it would be ` good

:08:16.:08:18.

chance for him review that position. At least I would feel that ht would

:08:19.:08:26.

have been examined, and considerate. Before was rejected. But at the

:08:27.:08:29.

moment I feel it was just rdjected out of hand. Because it camd from

:08:30.:08:36.

somebody who was affected so badly, whose constituency was affected so

:08:37.:08:46.

badly by this scheme. I do have to see also about the communic`tions

:08:47.:08:53.

that I am astounded by the lack of information that HS2 has about

:08:54.:08:56.

communications themselves. H do not know if the Minister has had the

:08:57.:08:59.

chance to look at the answers to my written questions over the last

:09:00.:09:03.

fortnight, particularly one when I asked about the annual budgdts and

:09:04.:09:10.

engagements for HS2, since 2010 I was preparing for this debate. In

:09:11.:09:15.

the response, it was stated that this could not be provided `s the

:09:16.:09:19.

amount of time spent on communication and engagement

:09:20.:09:23.

activity was not tracked. I am astounded by that Mr Deputy Speaker.

:09:24.:09:29.

Despite so much external crhticism, HS2 not even keeping track of what

:09:30.:09:33.

they are spending, and how they are spending, who has been doing what.

:09:34.:09:42.

Kind enough... In terms of the amount that HS2 is costing, we

:09:43.:09:47.

started at 30 billion, then 50 billion. It is now increasing, and

:09:48.:09:53.

the latest estimates, from `ll experts looking at it, is that it is

:09:54.:09:57.

exponentially going up. It could even be 80, more. That would cost

:09:58.:10:08.

more than Hinkley Point, He`throw... And even Gatwick Airport as well. We

:10:09.:10:14.

are talking about massive stms. And many people regard this as ` badly

:10:15.:10:18.

thought out project, causing anxiety and trouble to people. It is the

:10:19.:10:29.

case of the three Hs! Hinkldy, Heathrow, HS2. And the greatest

:10:30.:10:34.

HS2. I have to say, I think the Minister has probably heard me

:10:35.:10:40.

saying this before, I think this project is so large it deserved to

:10:41.:10:45.

have a dedicated minister. 80 billion budget. That is larger than

:10:46.:10:49.

many departments of State. Ht is ridiculous to think we have had five

:10:50.:10:56.

secretaries of State, in such a short period of time, oversdeing

:10:57.:11:01.

this project. The continuitx as ridiculous and we have lost the

:11:02.:11:06.

Chief Executive who is going to Rolls-Royce. And we have an interim

:11:07.:11:18.

Chief Executive, Mr Hill, from CH2M, who has just been in receipt of

:11:19.:11:31.

bonus from HS2. And still the running -- and still in the running

:11:32.:11:33.

for bidding for contracts. That does not seem to have been maint`ined in

:11:34.:11:36.

the current circumstances. The rate honourable member for South`mpton

:11:37.:11:42.

sure has asked me to raise particular Jimmy Nick Asian floors,

:11:43.:11:52.

-- communication flaws, cannot retrieve information from HS2 until

:11:53.:11:58.

they have made an application. And in one of my written answers, on

:11:59.:12:03.

Tuesday, when I was enquiring about the effectiveness of this nded to

:12:04.:12:11.

sell scheme, I was told it was operating fairly, I do not think

:12:12.:12:14.

that is reflected in the relarks to me. And I think that is was looking

:12:15.:12:23.

into, if the Minister would like to respond positively to that `s well.

:12:24.:12:28.

I will not go into the inaddquacy of the legislative process we `re using

:12:29.:12:39.

to put HS2 through this house and the Lollards, that is almost a

:12:40.:12:43.

matter for another time but, needless to say, the very process

:12:44.:12:52.

themselves lead to a great deal of confusion and consternation. For

:12:53.:12:57.

example, the right member M`c for Kenilworth has raised an excellent

:12:58.:13:04.

points with me that the better provision of information and

:13:05.:13:07.

communication would have negated the need for the House of Commons select

:13:08.:13:11.

committee to hear so many pdtitions and had there been constructive

:13:12.:13:15.

engagement beforehand it cotld promote dialogue away from the

:13:16.:13:18.

committee room and sped up the process of the bill, as it was,

:13:19.:13:24.

people felt the only way thdy could communicate with HS2 was coling

:13:25.:13:28.

along and person and making their case. I also want to highlight the

:13:29.:13:34.

poor practice of what has gone on cold corridor deals during the

:13:35.:13:40.

process. -- corridor deals. The reconstruction of the road hn my

:13:41.:13:46.

constituency was agreed in principle between the county council `nd HS2

:13:47.:13:52.

in such a deal and thus prolised but the evidence given thereaftdr at the

:13:53.:13:55.

committee and as it stands `t the moment this pledge has not been

:13:56.:14:00.

fulfilled. The nature of thdse corridor deals means of vit`l

:14:01.:14:04.

discussions are not transparent and assurances cannot be enforcdd. My

:14:05.:14:12.

constituents feel they are left in a very uncertain and unclear position

:14:13.:14:18.

as to HS2's intentions towards traffic management plan that will

:14:19.:14:26.

have enormous local impact. The Right Honourable member Mac for

:14:27.:14:29.

Kenilworth has also asked md to raise the unsatisfactory nedds for

:14:30.:14:36.

constituents to submitting ` Freedom of Information request to m`intain

:14:37.:14:40.

meaningful and detailed information. Now, once again, that should have

:14:41.:14:44.

been available from the outset from HS2 and it is a great shame they do

:14:45.:14:49.

not display greater transparency. They need to understand that for me

:14:50.:14:55.

as an MP and minute of my honourable friend in this chamber with an

:14:56.:14:59.

interest in the snow I have always approached best on a twin track

:15:00.:15:04.

basis. If I could not persu`de Government this was not the scheme

:15:05.:15:07.

in the right place at the rhght time I'm going to the right placds, then

:15:08.:15:11.

I would be working hard to litigate the effect on my constituency and

:15:12.:15:17.

particularly in one area. It seems to me that HS2 seems to think MPs

:15:18.:15:22.

are working against them whdreas if this is good to go through rehab to

:15:23.:15:26.

accept that what we need to work with to improve the outcomes for the

:15:27.:15:32.

people we represent. I will give way.

:15:33.:15:37.

One point we are finding at the moment with fees to a watch has not

:15:38.:15:42.

even reach Parliament yet btt the effects are felt very much by my

:15:43.:15:51.

constituents and those offered by fellow MPs's constituencies, is they

:15:52.:15:58.

are not being given the support in terms of planning if they are going

:15:59.:16:02.

to have to move house. Some of my constituents homes will be

:16:03.:16:07.

demolished in this phase but because parliamentary consent has not been

:16:08.:16:12.

achieved for that stayed nothing can be done even though they will have

:16:13.:16:17.

to make plans in the next fhve years of building a new house bec`use they

:16:18.:16:22.

us will be demolished. As M`tt right honourable friend -- has might right

:16:23.:16:26.

honourable friend came across instances like this? All thd lessons

:16:27.:16:31.

we have been trying to point out on phase one do not seem to have been

:16:32.:16:37.

learned. The mistakes are bding repeated in phase two. Cert`inly,

:16:38.:16:43.

the burden on local authorities to supplement HS2's poor performance

:16:44.:16:50.

has fallen disproportionately upon them and I am fearful about the next

:16:51.:16:54.

process, the planning processes that follow, because it will put

:16:55.:16:59.

increasingly more and more burdens on our local authorities who have,

:17:00.:17:02.

let's face it, stretched budget as it is.

:17:03.:17:13.

As is implied by my friend, the fact is whatever is decided on this bill

:17:14.:17:17.

when it goes through the hotse of Lords, inevitably, there it will be

:17:18.:17:22.

applied as a president in rdlation to the next bill so that is what we

:17:23.:17:27.

need to follow what might Rhght Honourable friend is saying so

:17:28.:17:35.

closely. -- applied as a prdsent precedent. I am giving eviddnce and

:17:36.:17:42.

making recommendations on how to change the procedure and evdryone

:17:43.:17:45.

would agree it is inequitable we should have Standing Orders

:17:46.:17:48.

preventing MPs, for example, appearing as petitioners in the

:17:49.:17:53.

house of Lords in the other place. There was no choice but the chairman

:17:54.:17:56.

of that committee but to interpret the Standing Orders in that way but

:17:57.:18:03.

to remove the right of advocacy from MPs seems to me to be self-defeating

:18:04.:18:07.

and inadequate and I am surd it is something both houses would want to

:18:08.:18:11.

see changed in the future. Going back to the burden on local

:18:12.:18:17.

authorities, particularly in relation to communications, I think

:18:18.:18:20.

that burden has been astronomical. In my own local authority, H asked

:18:21.:18:27.

the leader of the county cotncil and he said this in the house of Lords

:18:28.:18:33.

select committee also, on Monday, the Council actually spent ?110 264

:18:34.:18:39.

on community liaison relating to HS2. That is to cover per

:18:40.:18:48.

communications from HS2. Thdy asked for retrospective compensathon to

:18:49.:18:52.

recover these costs which I think is entirely reasonable and I hope the

:18:53.:18:56.

Minister will agree to this and if he cannot agree to this at the

:18:57.:19:00.

dispatch box tonight if he would do really courtesy of looking hnto it

:19:01.:19:05.

and seeing how we can compensate our local authorities. I would `lso like

:19:06.:19:12.

to note I think it is incredible the county council can actually provide

:19:13.:19:16.

actual figures on communication and engagement down to the last pounds

:19:17.:19:21.

winners HS2 can't. -- down to the last pounds, whereas HS to come

:19:22.:19:34.

The staff are consistently tsed to help to mediate between HS2 and

:19:35.:19:39.

residents went intentions to access land have not been adequately

:19:40.:19:43.

communicated and I think th`t is a job HS2 should and could be doing

:19:44.:19:46.

satisfactorily on their own if they had the will to do so. Prior to the

:19:47.:19:52.

introduction of the local engagement managers local authorities had been

:19:53.:19:55.

expected to plug the gap in communication to provide information

:19:56.:19:59.

to residents that was not rdadily available from HS2 and I thhnk the

:20:00.:20:02.

minister should bear in mind that was all at the Council's own

:20:03.:20:07.

expense. It is not just loc`l authorities and parish councils and

:20:08.:20:14.

residents, it is also poor engagement that reaches into a wider

:20:15.:20:18.

constituency. I have been contacted by the Woodland Trust who rdport to

:20:19.:20:25.

me they have not been engagdd on the independent review of biodiversity,

:20:26.:20:30.

as was recommended in the House of Commons select committee. They now

:20:31.:20:35.

may face petitioning in the house of Lords without the information they

:20:36.:20:41.

needed. The so tell me information regarding third-party plannhng

:20:42.:20:45.

applications has also not bden forthcoming by HS2 Limited `nd that

:20:46.:20:49.

has caused unacceptable del`ys in compensation payments. I do think a

:20:50.:20:54.

project of this size that is bringing with it such a heavy burden

:20:55.:20:59.

on our environment, particularly the violation poor of one in thd

:21:00.:21:05.

Chilterns, it should be enstring they are following up and ddaling

:21:06.:21:09.

with the detail when it comds to the environmental organisations trying

:21:10.:21:13.

to help mitigate the impact on our environment. I asked the minister

:21:14.:21:18.

today to take notes of thesd ongoing to medications failures and to

:21:19.:21:25.

ensure he will make sure it is his priority -- communication f`ilures.

:21:26.:21:28.

Mick has priority to sort this out. This is hindered HS2's conshderably

:21:29.:21:35.

and it is costing the taxpaxer even more money than it should bd. I also

:21:36.:21:43.

think he needs to have a look at producing a script body with teeth

:21:44.:21:47.

to hold this organisation to account, especially what thd

:21:48.:21:51.

construction fast approaching. For me, there has to be some better

:21:52.:22:01.

attitude from HS2 towards the people affected by this. When I was

:22:02.:22:08.

preparing for this debate I thought there were two main themes H wanted

:22:09.:22:12.

to leave with the Minister, firstly, I want to ensure there is that

:22:13.:22:17.

overhaul of the attitudes whthin HS2. There is the overhaul of its

:22:18.:22:24.

communication and engagement strategy and that it is looked at

:22:25.:22:30.

right at the highest level of the Department for Transport. Sdcondly,

:22:31.:22:34.

echoing the interventions from my honourable friend, I want to ensure

:22:35.:22:37.

this communication never happens again. And the residents received

:22:38.:22:47.

the substandard treatment on phase one are just the exception `nd do

:22:48.:22:52.

not become the rule because if a resident on phase two will be

:22:53.:22:55.

treated in the same way I think the taxpayer will be paying even more

:22:56.:22:59.

heavily for this project th`n is anticipated.

:23:00.:23:04.

I have to say, I think we h`ve really got to look at our, the way

:23:05.:23:10.

we do our major infrastructtre projects. It is extraordinary to me

:23:11.:23:14.

that we have had an announcdment this week of Heathrow which I have

:23:15.:23:21.

welcomed because it will be of economic benefit to Buckinghamshire

:23:22.:23:25.

and my constituency and the residents, and we have finally got a

:23:26.:23:30.

decision on Heathrow after the Howard Davies commission, after

:23:31.:23:35.

years of investigation and we have had it looked at from every angle.

:23:36.:23:42.

HS2, however, was written on the back of an envelope ie Labotr

:23:43.:23:48.

transport minister and immediately adopted by the coalition government

:23:49.:23:52.

and has not gone through those processes. One is far too long and

:23:53.:23:57.

the other is far too short. We need to find some way of ensuring our

:23:58.:24:01.

infrastructure projects are the right projects in the right places

:24:02.:24:06.

and communications and engagement are relate to the highest ldvel

:24:07.:24:13.

because otherwise I believe we will have greater problems as thdse

:24:14.:24:17.

projects progress. I want to finish by saying I did not realise I was

:24:18.:24:22.

going to have the luxury, I do not you should talk at such length, to

:24:23.:24:28.

have the luxury of such a long set of interventions. I want to thank my

:24:29.:24:36.

colleagues in the chamber stpporting me today, particularly thosd who

:24:37.:24:40.

remain silent, but I hope the Minister when he rises will give me

:24:41.:24:48.

the encouragement he will use his influence to radically re-evaluate

:24:49.:24:53.

HS2's approach to dealing whth constituents, embed a culture of

:24:54.:24:56.

respect, transparency and openness together with improved

:24:57.:25:01.

communications. Thank you very much, Mr Deptty

:25:02.:25:08.

Speaker and the as by congr`tulating my right honourable friend on

:25:09.:25:15.

securing on the effectiveness of her communication and engagement

:25:16.:25:19.

undertaken by HS2 limited mtst begin by acknowledging her tireless work

:25:20.:25:24.

on this project and that work has had a measurable effect on the

:25:25.:25:30.

Government's approach. Also for highlighting the communicathon

:25:31.:25:32.

challenges and problems which have been a part of the project to date.

:25:33.:25:38.

I have heard that not just from my right honourable friend tod`y but

:25:39.:25:40.

also other colleagues around the house. The key ask she made in her

:25:41.:25:52.

closing remarks was, would H undertake to basically look at all

:25:53.:25:57.

the projects and communicathons taken place so far and improve it. I

:25:58.:26:03.

am sure that is something I can give her and I will go into that in more

:26:04.:26:09.

detail in the remarks ahead. Let me start by putting the HS2

:26:10.:26:14.

project in context. I know that perhaps might agree but I bdlieve

:26:15.:26:19.

HS2 is a vital strategic issue for our whole country. We have the rail

:26:20.:26:25.

industry which is a huge success and that's... Order! I beg to move this

:26:26.:26:36.

house to know adjourned. Th`nk you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Our rail industry

:26:37.:26:43.

is a huge success and growth is putting huge problems on thd

:26:44.:26:46.

capacity of the network. We must build capacity into the network and

:26:47.:26:53.

that is what HS2 is about and recognise it will bring connectivity

:26:54.:26:57.

between a vital routes of London and the West Midlands, crude, Ldeds

:26:58.:27:00.

Manchester, South Yorkshire and East Midlands and create space on our

:27:01.:27:05.

network for new routes and give a boost to our regional and n`tional

:27:06.:27:10.

economies and it is vital for the jobs it will create. It has also

:27:11.:27:20.

had... I can indeed give wax. I am most grateful. I know he's only

:27:21.:27:23.

using this as a backdrop to the points he will deal with anx moment

:27:24.:27:31.

regarding the specifics that he is forward but would you accept that

:27:32.:27:36.

and reports after reports challenging the assumptions on which

:27:37.:27:41.

she had just made his remarks and although the vote in the Hotse of

:27:42.:27:46.

Commons demonstrated a huge majority for the project actually, the

:27:47.:27:50.

reports coming out over the past two years have universally conddmned the

:27:51.:27:58.

project on cost and on incrdasing costs and many of the assumptions on

:27:59.:28:06.

what to put forward his casd. It would be extreme to say thex have

:28:07.:28:10.

all reports written on this project are universally condemning ht

:28:11.:28:13.

because I do not believe th`t to be the case. There has been vohces

:28:14.:28:18.

which have cast doubts on the project or belief we should do a

:28:19.:28:22.

different project or they could be an alternative use of public money

:28:23.:28:27.

but I think there is no real momentum behind this project. It had

:28:28.:28:34.

overwhelming support in this house and quote on phase one was passed

:28:35.:28:41.

nine to one in favour at thhrd reading. When construction begins

:28:42.:28:49.

next year I think the attittdes will change again. We intend to start

:28:50.:28:57.

construction shortly after Royal assent, perhaps towards Chrhstmas

:28:58.:29:00.

and January, depending on the progress the with it for thd

:29:01.:29:06.

commencement of work in the spring. Then the debate will change and will

:29:07.:29:10.

not be a question of whether we should be doing this project or not,

:29:11.:29:15.

a question of how to maximise the benefits this project will happen.

:29:16.:29:22.

It will rapidly become the largest infrastructure project in Etrope.

:29:23.:29:31.

And the project of scale and complexity and tradition repuires

:29:32.:29:33.

engagement across many commtnities, organisations and individuals.

:29:34.:29:44.

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